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[00:00:09] <furrywolf> I'm sorta visualizing something where you have your bends be part of the flange on one side, or maybe even both sides... rather than a bent tube, have the tube come into the side of a fabricated box with a 45 degree on the far end and a flange pointing the right direction. a long, skinny flange for either oval or thin-wall box, or multiple pipes.
[00:00:22] <furrywolf> I'm still not quite picturing your entire routing though.
[00:00:39] <zeeshan|2> its kinda hard with pictures
[00:00:52] <zeeshan|2> cause they dont give you a spatial idea.
[00:01:08] <zeeshan|2> but really i can narrow the problem to "passing a tube between the log and the frame rail"
[00:02:02] <zeeshan|2> i dont think i have room for a flange...
[00:02:04] <zeeshan|2> =/
[00:02:15] <furrywolf> your shape is a 45-ish bend at the car's v-band flange, then towards the turbo on the underside of the frame until you clear the steering shaft, then an S-bend through the gap to get you above the frame rail, then to the turbo?
[00:02:17] <zeeshan|2> cause then it stops me from installing it
[00:02:29] <zeeshan|2> exactly
[00:03:10] <zeeshan|2> btw the pic with the mandrel bend
[00:03:14] <zeeshan|2> i got the tube pointing the wrong way :)
[00:03:57] <zeeshan|2> i could make a precision slip fit section..
[00:04:05] <zeeshan|2> basically two ovals
[00:04:09] <zeeshan|2> precisely machined to spec
[00:04:12] <alex4nder> yah
[00:04:31] <zeeshan|2> ya to wat :D
[00:04:31] <alex4nder> I have a pressure cooker that has a machined interface.. it holds > 15 PSI
[00:04:41] <alex4nder> no gasket
[00:04:49] <zeeshan|2> metal seal works pretty good
[00:04:52] <zeeshan|2> look at AN fittings
[00:05:02] <zeeshan|2> even v-bands are a metal seal
[00:05:05] <alex4nder> yup
[00:05:18] <zeeshan|2> i think if i bent tube into oval and tried to slip fit it
[00:05:21] <zeeshan|2> i'd defienitely have a leak
[00:05:30] <furrywolf> use some 1.5" by 4" thin-wall rectangular box. weld it to the side of the pipe to the car's v-band flange, and install from the bottom. on the top, have a flange welded to the box, with two bolts on far ends, with welded-on nuts and/or tapped. on top of this, put a square box with the round tube to the turbo, and two through-bolts. gasket the flange and the bolt heads.
[00:06:51] <furrywolf> the flange will fit through the gap, and having the bolt heads on top with welded nuts or tapped flange means easy assembley, no trying to tighten something in the frame rail space.
[00:07:47] <zeeshan|2> im trying to visualize this
[00:07:53] <zeeshan|2> if there is a flange welded to that box
[00:08:01] <furrywolf> I suck at drawing quite horribly, but I can try drawing it.
[00:08:03] <zeeshan|2> how will i pass it from under the car?
[00:08:14] <zeeshan|2> cause it will be larger than the 1.5" width of the tube
[00:08:30] <zeeshan|2> oh wait, i have 2.25" clearance
[00:08:41] <furrywolf> you have more than 1.5". you have 2.25". this gives you 3/8 of flange width on either side of the box.
[00:08:47] <zeeshan|2> thats true
[00:08:50] <zeeshan|2> hm
[00:09:01] <zeeshan|2> i like
[00:09:06] <zeeshan|2> instead of box i'd use an oval :P
[00:09:37] * zeeshan|2 has never made a custom composite gasket
[00:09:49] <zeeshan|2> sounds like something that needs to be water jet :P
[00:10:15] <furrywolf> making a flange for box is easier (simple pocket operation), the rectangle fits more area in the same space, and the straight walls of the square box keep your long, thin flange from bending in the middle and not sealing.
[00:10:53] <furrywolf> oval is more work, requires fabbing the tube, is less space-efficient, and won't strengthen the flange as much.
[00:13:07] <zeeshan|2> smoother flow though
[00:13:40] <furrywolf> dunno. I suspect the bends will be the loss, not the shape of the tubing.
[00:14:35] <zeeshan|2> you get turbulence at the diagonals
[00:14:44] <zeeshan|2> in square tube
[00:15:02] <zeeshan|2> (more so)
[00:15:07] <zeeshan|2> the entire flow is turbulent
[00:15:10] <zeeshan|2> but you know what i mean
[00:15:48] <furrywolf> I also know the difference between "perfect" and "best". :P
[00:17:01] <furrywolf> gah, as always, I have failed at art creation.
[00:17:53] <zeeshan|2> hahah
[00:18:47] <zeeshan|2> this is going to use some tiny bolts
[00:18:50] <zeeshan|2> STRIP IT!
[00:18:57] <furrywolf> http://ibin.co/24pbIr8swlpe
[00:19:51] <zeeshan|2> yea i see what you mean
[00:20:38] <furrywolf> wrap it in enough heat wrap that all the square parts look round, and it'll flow just fine. :P
[00:23:13] <furrywolf> if you're really worried about flow, tack some quarter-circle strips inside the bends. have one welded to the top box that extends down into the vertical box, curving the flow nicely.
[00:25:59] <zeeshan|2> http://i.imgur.com/me4GkGW.png
[00:26:02] <zeeshan|2> this is what im imagining
[00:26:05] <zeeshan|2> working off your idea :P
[00:26:41] <zeeshan|2> i can bend that shape using the press
[00:26:47] <zeeshan|2> and make those flanges relatively easily
[00:26:52] <furrywolf> if you want to turn a simple welding project into a multi-axis machining project, have fun! :P
[00:26:58] <zeeshan|2> no no
[00:27:03] <zeeshan|2> its just a tube that's been crushed into an oval
[00:27:06] <furrywolf> never, ever use small screws for exhaust parts.
[00:27:11] <zeeshan|2> and the flanges weld up
[00:27:23] <furrywolf> use a solid surround with tabs on the far sides, and two big bolts.
[00:27:47] <zeeshan|2> solid surround?
[00:27:52] <zeeshan|2> ah
[00:27:56] <zeeshan|2> like keep no holes in it
[00:27:57] <furrywolf> with a continuous weld, the tube walls keep the flanges from bending and leaking in the middle, even though they're only bolted on the far ends.
[00:28:06] <furrywolf> no stupid little screw holes. :P
[00:28:10] <zeeshan|2> haha yea
[00:28:14] <zeeshan|2> 10-32 will get OWNED
[00:28:24] <zeeshan|2> i can break that shit with my hands
[00:28:28] <furrywolf> if you use little screws on exhaust, it will either never come apart, or come apart very quickly.
[00:28:34] <zeeshan|2> hahaha
[00:28:42] <furrywolf> if they don't break, they'll need to be drilled out.
[00:28:43] <zeeshan|2> ive broken m10x1.5
[00:29:02] <zeeshan|2> one cool trick is to use copper bolts
[00:29:07] <furrywolf> there's no option for using little screws in exhaust systems that ends up as working. :)
[00:29:15] <zeeshan|2> (m10x1.5 copper)
[00:29:31] <zeeshan|2> the way i currently have it is: m10x1.5 regular hex head
[00:29:33] <zeeshan|2> with copper nuts
[00:29:38] <zeeshan|2> ive never had issues ever since that
[00:29:46] <furrywolf> also, two big bolts on the ends is easy to assemble, while little screws with no clearance between the tube that extends out over them and the frame rail right next to them....
[00:29:52] <zeeshan|2> i agree
[00:30:17] <zeeshan|2> i can have have a small protrusion inside the flange
[00:30:20] <zeeshan|2> for alignment purposes
[00:30:36] <furrywolf> it's even easier to assemble if you use two welded nuts, one on each flange, such that you tighten one from on top and the other from on the bottom, never needing to try tightening anything under the bends.
[00:30:39] <zeeshan|2> isn't it crazy how ideas evolve? :P
[00:31:36] <zeeshan|2> i wonder if there are some weird mini "machinist clamps"
[00:31:41] <zeeshan|2> that you can use instead of bolts :p
[00:31:42] <furrywolf> isn't it crazy how some people make simple ideas complicated? :P
[00:31:46] <zeeshan|2> shuddap
[00:31:47] <zeeshan|2> haha
[00:32:19] <furrywolf> just make the tube as one piece, flatten it where it needs to be thinner, unbolt one motor mount, tilt the engine a bit, and drop it in? :P
[00:34:32] <zeeshan|2> HAHA
[00:34:44] <zeeshan|2> just remove the whole engine
[00:35:23] <zeeshan|2> hey
[00:35:24] <zeeshan|2> check this out
[00:35:28] <furrywolf> that's more work, and involves wiring and plumbing. wiring and plumbing generally has enough flex you can tilt an engine quite a bit.
[00:36:23] <zeeshan|2> one of my major reasons to redo this turbo setup was
[00:36:28] <zeeshan|2> ease of working on car, its paramount
[00:36:37] <zeeshan|2> even more than performance
[00:36:37] <zeeshan|2> lol
[00:36:39] <zeeshan|2> http://i.imgur.com/njAaNOX.png
[00:36:42] <zeeshan|2> we on the same page now?
[00:37:03] <furrywolf> that looks better, yes.
[00:37:35] <zeeshan|2> im gonna engrave furrywolf (c) 2015 on that
[00:37:47] <furrywolf> I don't think it's a new idea. :P
[00:37:55] <zeeshan|2> ive never seen it before
[00:38:24] <furrywolf> then again, certain large corporations have proven that even if something isn't a new idea at all, you can still take out a patent on it.
[00:38:53] <zeeshan|2> wish you were local dude
[00:39:04] <zeeshan|2> it's good discussing stuff with you
[00:39:12] <zeeshan|2> if i showed this problem to my local friends
[00:39:14] <zeeshan|2> they';d be clueless
[00:39:33] <zeeshan|2> fly over and help me do this!
[00:39:53] <furrywolf> if your 90 degree bends are very close to your flange, keep in mind what I said about welding nuts, one on each side, such that the welded nut is under the bend, with the bolt on the open side, keeping you from needing to access under the bend.
[00:40:23] <zeeshan|2> nahh tons of room
[00:40:31] <zeeshan|2> that turbo to flange height would be about a good 8"
[00:40:37] <zeeshan|2> enough to get a socket in there
[00:40:40] <furrywolf> it's hard to picture the vertical scale in your pictures. :)
[00:40:44] <zeeshan|2> yea
[00:41:31] <zeeshan|2> one dasy ill have a 3d scanner
[00:41:34] <zeeshan|2> that'll come useful for this.
[00:41:48] <furrywolf> I'm not sure what you'd use for gasket material... something reasonably squishy, as anything long and skinny will bend at least a little bit, and it might warp slightly during welding or otherwise be imperfect.
[00:42:40] <furrywolf> looks like jegs sells a wide variety of exhaust gasket material in rolls, should be fine
[00:42:41] <zeeshan|2> might make the flanges 1/2"
[00:42:53] <zeeshan|2> since they're so skinny
[00:43:05] <zeeshan|2> but then aain they wont be seeing much heat during welding
[00:43:09] <furrywolf> the tube welded to it adds a LOT of strength.
[00:43:09] <zeeshan|2> only about 80 amps
[00:43:20] <furrywolf> it's not going to bend substantially until you break your welds or rip the tube
[00:44:11] <furrywolf> think of the tube as the webbing of an I-beam, and under tension not compression, so it can't buckle...
[00:44:54] <zeeshan|2> i dont think itll break during service
[00:44:58] <zeeshan|2> im saying itll warp during welding
[00:45:57] <zeeshan|2> i might use copper wire
[00:45:59] <furrywolf> http://www.jegs.com/i/Mr-Gasket/720/5960/10002/-1?parentProductId=749506#moreDetails you can probably source something like that from a store in your country... if it doesn't machine easily, drill the two bolt holes, clamp it between your two flanges, then run your flange-cutting g-code again.
[00:45:59] <zeeshan|2> to seal it..
[00:46:02] <zeeshan|2> it might be cheaper
[00:46:20] <zeeshan|2> in my experience that stuff is impossible to machine
[00:46:22] <zeeshan|2> you have to cu tit
[00:46:34] <zeeshan|2> last time i got it stacked into multiple sheets and got it water jet
[00:46:54] <zeeshan|2> man i just placed a summit racing order 2 hours ago
[00:46:59] <zeeshan|2> =/
[00:47:20] <zeeshan|2> they have ap olicy that they cant change orders once ordered for international customers :(
[00:47:22] <furrywolf> which is why I said to clamp it first, then machine. clamp it between your already-cut flanges, nice and tight, then run the same code you used to cut the flanges... it'll cut the gasket out in and around the flanges, perfectly.
[00:47:55] <furrywolf> once it's clamped, you can do a lot more to it.
[00:48:04] <zeeshan|2> yea
[00:48:16] <furrywolf> maybe even just a hand saw
[00:48:29] <zeeshan|2> chisel might work :P
[00:49:10] <zeeshan|2> at least there is a plan for the right side of the car.
[00:49:28] <zeeshan|2> on the left side of the car, exhaust is easy since there is no brake booster and steering shaft in the way
[00:49:36] <zeeshan|2> but the wastegate placement is hard cause there is an alternator down there!
[00:49:57] <zeeshan|2> will deal with that another day :)
[00:50:17] <furrywolf> http://www.spintechmufflers.com/oval-tubing/oval-flanges-exhaust-flanges/cat_38.html
[00:50:47] <zeeshan|2> wow those are thin!
[00:50:51] <furrywolf> I didn't think it was a new idea. :P
[00:51:15] <zeeshan|2> with the tabs it is!
[00:52:21] <zeeshan|2> wtf
[00:52:35] <zeeshan|2> http://www.spintechmufflers.com/oval-tubing/straight-lengths/2-1/2-oval-tubing-40-long/prod_66.html
[00:52:42] <zeeshan|2> 1.75" H
[00:52:42] <zeeshan|2> lol
[00:52:45] <zeeshan|2> nice.
[00:53:01] <zeeshan|2> i can crush my own for cheaper though :P
[00:53:46] <furrywolf> bbl, it's way past my bedtime.
[00:54:53] <zeeshan|2> gnite!
[00:55:54] <furrywolf> rather than tabs, it'd be stronger if it were just a longer oval
[00:57:02] <furrywolf> also, don't forget to position the flange so it's above or below the frame rail, not in the middle of it where you don't have the clearance.
[00:57:16] <zeeshan|2> yea
[00:57:21] <zeeshan|2> i intend to exhaust the oval sections
[00:57:24] <zeeshan|2> this is just concept :P
[00:57:38] <zeeshan|2> im gonan make it out of card board and try it out first
[00:58:49] <furrywolf> just making sure, since your picture shows it in the middle of two round sections, which would put it right in the middle of the frame. :P
[00:58:59] <zeeshan|2> haha yea
[00:59:56] <toastyde2th> hey dudes, is there a recommended book on control theory
[01:00:14] <zeeshan|2> like root locus and shit?
[01:00:21] <zeeshan|2> and transfer functions
[01:00:26] <zeeshan|2> to control like a servo
[01:00:31] <toastyde2th> yeh
[01:01:07] <zeeshan|2> we used "control systems engineering" by norman s. nise
[01:01:16] <toastyde2th> i am getting into microcontrollers and whatnot
[01:01:18] <zeeshan|2> really easy to follow
[01:01:24] <toastyde2th> and trying to understand rtos and cdonrol theory
[01:01:28] <toastyde2th> awesome, that was my concern
[01:01:28] <zeeshan|2> hm
[01:01:32] <zeeshan|2> this might not be good thenc
[01:01:35] <zeeshan|2> ause this is for mechanical systems
[01:01:38] <zeeshan|2> electro-mechanical
[01:01:43] <toastyde2th> nah i'm looking for purely theoretical shit
[01:02:04] <toastyde2th> I've been able to translate theory into code pretty well
[01:02:27] <toastyde2th> but my background is sorely lacking any sort of model theory
[01:02:34] <zeeshan|2> ah
[01:02:48] <zeeshan|2> this basically uses equation of motion
[01:03:03] <zeeshan|2> and "electrical equation" as a basis
[01:03:10] <zeeshan|2> and shows how to go from like say a motor to an equation
[01:03:22] <toastyde2th> yeah, that's the sort of thing i'm looking for
[01:03:28] <zeeshan|2> or model a mechanical system with multiple dof into an equation
[01:03:29] <toastyde2th> just an introduction to the model
[01:05:19] <toastyde2th> multiple dof hasn't been the problem so far, I've got a 2d/3d PID control written
[01:05:34] <toastyde2th> it's just been the actual... planning? i guess
[01:05:50] <toastyde2th> I'd like to implement a fully analog PID control but that requires projecting values
[01:06:03] <toastyde2th> and not just being like "lol I guess it oscillates now"
[01:06:14] <zeeshan|2> i thought like that too
[01:06:17] <zeeshan|2> and these guys made fun of me :(
[01:06:21] <toastyde2th> why?
[01:06:29] <zeeshan|2> cause they think theory doesnt work :P
[01:06:42] <toastyde2th> if you want to have an ultra-fast PID controller, it has to be analog
[01:06:52] <toastyde2th> and that requires knowing what capacatence to use
[01:07:05] <toastyde2th> tell them to go talk to LeCroy
[01:07:23] <toastyde2th> with their 100 ghz oscilloscope
[01:07:30] <toastyde2th> and see how much analog planning is scoffed at there
[01:07:44] <toastyde2th> so, so much is done on the analog front end using tuners
[01:08:30] <zeeshan|2> i need to rereead this book for my pressure controller :/
[01:08:35] <toastyde2th> ? why
[01:08:44] <zeeshan|2> forgot some things :)
[01:08:57] <zeeshan|2> it'd be nice to model it
[01:09:04] <zeeshan|2> will look good in thesis section
[01:10:13] <toastyde2th> hahaha
[01:12:27] <toastyde2th> i'm looking at how to control temp
[01:12:44] <toastyde2th> because one of the future projects i'd like to do is a programmable load
[01:13:02] <toastyde2th> and use liquid cooling
[01:13:26] <toastyde2th> most of the big ones are liquid cooled anyway but they use a refridgerator rather than a cooler
[01:13:41] <toastyde2th> really wasteful, i don't need 36 degree F water
[01:13:45] <toastyde2th> 80 deg F will do
[01:36:27] <archivist> what do you mean refridgerator rather than a cooler ?
[02:12:12] <Deejay> moin
[02:51:36] <AKfreak_Workstai> I come here to ask some basic questions about homing on the Z axis and Z zreo
[02:52:04] <AKfreak_Workstai> On my machine, I use a control boarsd that allows me to set a min or max limit switch
[02:52:43] <AKfreak_Workstai> I swtich can be a limit, a home, oe a limit+ home, or off
[02:53:12] <AKfreak_Workstai> I set it as Home + limit
[02:54:00] <AKfreak_Workstai> Ince its a max switch, iff you hit the home Z, it will raise the Z axis to get the tool out of the way first, then it homes the X then the Y
[02:54:19] <AKfreak_Workstai> Also the controller allows a Soft limit
[02:54:43] <AKfreak_Workstai> The soft limit is the software allowing you to set up a travel distance
[02:55:42] <AKfreak_Workstai> this system works on the X and Y, becuse 0 never changes
[02:56:42] <AKfreak_Workstai> The Z axis the setup cant work becuse the Z axis Zero working distance changes based on the thickness of materials
[02:57:10] <AKfreak_Workstai> I hope you are folling me, its kind of confusing to explain
[02:57:29] <archivist> z0 is at the top of the machine, you touch off to material thickness
[02:57:47] <AKfreak_Workstai> being a hobbist, I was wondering how you handle this
[02:58:28] <AKfreak_Workstai> On all of our machines, Z is zero at the top of the worksurface
[02:59:03] <AKfreak_Workstai> z0 is at the top...hmmmm
[02:59:26] <AKfreak_Workstai> let me wrap my head around this
[02:59:27] <archivist> home to top then touch off to material thickness
[02:59:49] <AKfreak_Workstai> So home is Zero and at the top
[03:00:36] <AKfreak_Workstai> And I touch the work surface and create a new zero on each job
[03:00:43] <archivist> home is mechanical 0, you can touch off for a 0 at material thickness
[03:00:43] <AKfreak_Workstai> then just hit home
[03:01:07] <AKfreak_Workstai> Got it
[03:01:41] <AKfreak_Workstai> So soft limits are just disreguarded
[03:01:50] <AKfreak_Workstai> on the Z ^
[03:02:09] <AKfreak_Workstai> I was tying to figure a way to use softlimits to make a crash proof Z axis
[03:02:55] <AKfreak_Workstai> The only way I see to do it is have a table that moves up and down to maintain a consistant distance that matches the soft limit
[03:03:27] <archivist> not sure crash proof is possible in all cases
[03:04:01] <AKfreak_Workstai> on the X and Y its pretty much crash proof, the Z not so much
[03:04:42] <AKfreak_Workstai> part failure would crash anything, but standard use X & Y are safe :)
[03:04:47] <archivist> tool hanging out and fixtures make any set up crashable
[03:05:00] <AKfreak_Workstai> Agreed
[03:05:20] <AKfreak_Workstai> Well thanks for your time, I really apprciate it
[03:05:40] <archivist> and in my case I have a couple of rotaries on top of the table
[03:24:12] <AKfreak_Workstai> so that is the 4th and 5th axis?
[03:25:07] <AKfreak_Workstai> Do you use a parallel connection from the contoller to a PC?
[03:26:43] <AKfreak_Workstai> I want to build a new machine. Belts and Pulleys are cool to start with, And I love the Contoller and the Cam software I use, I just with the setup could handle higher then 2.5 amps per motor
[03:26:59] <AKfreak_Workstai> ^wish not with
[03:27:38] <AKfreak_Workstai> I want a rack and pinion on the Z & Y and a Ball screw on the Z
[07:58:45] <archivist> AKfreak_Workstai,
http://www.collection.archivist.info/archive/DJCPD/PD/2013/2013_08_11_bevel/IMG_1635.JPG
[07:59:02] <archivist> yes parallel
[08:00:11] <archivist> jthornton, I did a test bluing with my setup, and got blue
[08:10:47] <jthornton> nice
[08:14:28] <_methods> wtf is that coming out of the center of your rotab?
[08:14:48] <_methods> you using that to line up the center of your cutter or something?
[08:20:22] <archivist> _methods, exactly guessed
[08:20:41] <_methods> good i dea
[08:20:51] * _methods adds trick to toolbox
[08:21:23] <archivist> had to get the blank in the rh rotary in the right place and the centre line of the cutter
[08:22:13] <_methods> yeah looks like a trick setup
[08:22:19] <_methods> hard to touch off on
[08:22:20] <archivist> most of the touch off stupf hardly applies to mid air guess work
[08:22:27] <_methods> yeah
[08:22:36] <_methods> lot of virtual sharps
[08:23:47] <archivist> xy travel at about 3 deg in that setup and the rh rotary has about 30+ degrees
[08:24:33] <archivist> and they rotate in sync around the cutter to generate the involute
[08:24:59] <archivist> and one day I will get it right :)
[08:26:04] <cthompson> archivist: got a photo of what the end result part looks like? I'm mentally incapable of visualizing that
[08:26:28] <archivist> cthompson,
http://www.collection.archivist.info/searchv13.php?searchstr=bevel
[08:27:18] <archivist> straight sided cutter generates an involute bevel
[08:27:25] <cthompson> damn
[08:28:11] <archivist> the maths I explored
http://www.archivist.info/gear/designbevel.php
[08:29:02] <cthompson> my current skillset sits somewhere between "I'd really like an xcarve" and "I've watched a lot of hours of John Grimsmo cutting knives on his tormach"
[08:29:09] <cthompson> so crap like that just melts my brain
[08:29:54] <archivist> note the last images have the wrong mesh angle :(
[08:30:22] <cthompson> this bevel design page reminds me that the last time I had a math class of any complexity Ronald Reagan was president of the US.
[08:31:24] <cthompson> that's some impressive stuff.
[08:31:25] <_methods> heheh was caspar weinberger still the secretary of defense
[08:31:42] <archivist> I have no idea who was in power in the early 1970s
[08:33:03] <_methods> i can't remember when weinberger was put in as sec def
[08:33:11] <_methods> but he was sec def for reagan
[08:33:33] <_methods> 1981-1987
[08:40:17] <cthompson> for the record, I was talking late 80s, not early 70s. I'm old, not REALLY old.
[08:40:39] * cthompson shakes a cane, mutters about kids getting off the lawn.
[08:58:05] <_methods> http://www.hammacher.com/Product/Default.aspx?sku=12675&promo=Category-NewArrivals&catid=60
[08:58:15] <_methods> only $125k
[09:01:43] <archivist> one could get a good few cnc machines for that price
[09:02:09] <archivist> even more machines if you retrofit linuxcnc!
[09:06:19] <_methods> no doubt
[09:39:24] <ssi> morn
[09:39:43] <_methods> wud up
[09:40:00] <ssi> nutn
[09:40:29] <_methods> huh nice
[09:56:38] <_methods> http://portal.uc3m.es/portal/page/portal/actualidad_cientifica/noticias/safety_aircraft
[09:57:33] <ssi> god people come up with the dumbest shit
[09:57:56] <_methods> bad idea?
[09:58:03] <ssi> that's not quite as dumb as this one:
https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/509430931/faradair-new-eco-aircraft-called-beha?ref=discovery
[09:58:19] <zeeshan|2> whats wrong with a backup electric motor
[09:58:23] <zeeshan|2> to get you down to safety
[09:58:35] <ssi> what're the failure modes of brushless motors
[09:58:52] <ssi> it can't be a "backup" electric motor
[09:58:53] <zeeshan|2> ??
[09:59:02] <ssi> if it's not being driven, then it's an extra load on the prop
[09:59:10] <ssi> and the energy it generates has to GO somewhere, or else it's a brake
[09:59:18] <zeeshan|2> im sure they dont have it being a parastic loss
[09:59:24] <zeeshan|2> prolly an electromagnetic clutch or something
[09:59:25] <ssi> if there's a short, it becomes a brake
[09:59:29] <ssi> a brake is the opposite of safety
[09:59:35] <zeeshan|2> ^
[09:59:58] <ssi> the motor and battery system is a significant amount of additional weight
[10:00:05] <zeeshan|2> thats my main prob with it
[10:00:07] <ssi> and the battery system is a HUGE safety risk
[10:00:09] <zeeshan|2> additional weight
[10:00:29] <zeeshan|2> i dont think its a dumb idea though
[10:00:41] <zeeshan|2> =P
[10:01:09] <_methods> well i have no idea i just saw that and thought ssi might find it interesting
[10:01:21] <ssi> it's interesting, but it's not remarkably practical
[10:01:25] <_methods> the only thing i fly is cheezeburgers into my mouth
[10:01:42] <ssi> they already make airplanes that have a backup engine
[10:01:48] <ssi> they're called light twins :)
[10:02:16] <ssi> problem is, there's no such thing as "backup" thrust
[10:02:19] <ssi> if you have it, you use it
[10:02:22] <_methods> zeeshan|2: what tig machine do you have?
[10:02:22] <ssi> if you use it, you need it
[10:02:32] <zeeshan|2> lincoln precision 225
[10:02:34] <_methods> you have one of those everlast rigs?
[10:02:46] <zeeshan|2> their plasma cutter
[10:02:49] <zeeshan|2> i have tried their tig
[10:02:49] <_methods> ahh
[10:02:50] <zeeshan|2> its nice
[10:02:52] <ssi> if you have a hybrid like that, then you have two powerplants subject to two completely different failure modes
[10:02:58] <ssi> and you need both of them operable for takeoff
[10:03:06] <ssi> but the failure probability goes up exponentially
[10:03:12] <_methods> makes sense
[10:03:18] <ssi> that's why the accident rates for twins are high
[10:03:28] <ssi> a twin is far more likely to have an engine failure than a single
[10:03:31] <malcom2073> I think the weight would be better served by giving an airplane sized parachute
[10:03:37] <ssi> malcom2073: they have those too
[10:03:40] <_methods> i'm trying to pick up a tig rig and trying to decide what to get
[10:03:43] <zeeshan|2> pipers have em
[10:03:47] <malcom2073> Makes more sense than a "backup" engine
[10:03:48] <zeeshan|2> or whatever those planes are called
[10:03:49] <_methods> 1. new rig like the everlast that is cheap
[10:03:51] <ssi> cirruses have them
[10:03:55] <ssi> I don't think new pipers have them
[10:03:58] <_methods> 2. maxstar 175 for $400
[10:04:13] <ssi> the problem with the airframe chute is that people are too quick to use it
[10:04:14] <_methods> 3. econotig for $800 which i think i can get cheaper
[10:04:20] <ssi> they buy the plane knowing it has the chute, and they never learn to be safe in it
[10:04:33] <ssi> and then they pull the big red handle when shit goes slightly pear shaped
[10:04:33] <_methods> 4. or wait till i can get something like a syncrowave
[10:04:41] <zeeshan|2> for ac dc?
[10:04:43] <zeeshan|2> or dc only
[10:04:47] <_methods> ac/dc
[10:04:49] <ssi> _methods: get a synchrowave
[10:04:54] <ssi> or even better, a dynasty
[10:04:58] <ssi> plan to do a lot of aluminum?
[10:05:00] <malcom2073> The problem with most systems is that people don't use them properly. Sad fact of life
[10:05:01] <_methods> yeah
[10:05:01] <zeeshan|2> how thick metall will you weld?
[10:05:06] <_methods> mainly for alum
[10:05:17] <ssi> malcom2073: the problem with the chute is you still come down pretty fast, and now you have NO control
[10:05:25] <ssi> and the cirruses tend to burn when they come down under canopy
[10:05:28] <malcom2073> Tbh, if I had to pull a parachute in a plane even once, I'd probably rethink that mode of transportation :-P
[10:05:44] <_methods> yeah i guess i'll just keep waiting and watching for a syncrowave
[10:05:46] <ssi> you're much better off landing under control at a reasonable speed than pulling the chute
[10:05:52] <malcom2073> But, I'd probably be more likely to fly with one.
[10:06:04] <zeeshan|2> syncrowave is a great machine!
[10:06:04] <ssi> _methods: the problem with the syncrowave is it doesn't have freq control
[10:06:07] <zeeshan|2> my school welder is that
[10:06:11] <ssi> so you can't turn it up for more focus on aluminum
[10:06:15] <ssi> other than that, it's an ideal welder
[10:06:21] <zeeshan|2> its also 239032132803 lb
[10:06:21] <ssi> well that and it's huge and heavy :)
[10:06:24] <zeeshan|2> vs a proper dynasty
[10:06:37] <ssi> I have a syncrowave 200
[10:06:51] <zeeshan|2> i dont think in the beginning most people will benefit from freq control
[10:07:18] <ssi> for aluminum work it helps a lot
[10:07:22] <zeeshan|2> i know
[10:07:28] <_methods> guess i'll keep an eye out for a dynasty then
[10:07:29] <ssi> it basically changes the cone angle of the arc
[10:07:30] <zeeshan|2> but im saying when you're starting out
[10:07:34] <ssi> _methods: the dynasty is twice as much sadly
[10:07:41] <zeeshan|2> 3x
[10:07:42] <zeeshan|2> mroe
[10:07:52] <_methods> well i'm sure some crackhead around here will steal one and throw on craigslist
[10:07:54] <ssi> 200DX is like $3400
[10:07:58] <ssi> lol
[10:07:59] <zeeshan|2> wat!
[10:08:01] <zeeshan|2> its like 5000
[10:08:03] <_methods> there's 2 local that i can get for $1600 right now
[10:08:17] <_methods> 250dx for $1800
[10:08:22] <zeeshan|2> what!
[10:08:23] <zeeshan|2> buy that
[10:08:25] <_methods> hmm
[10:08:26] <zeeshan|2> !!
[10:08:26] <_methods> really
[10:08:46] <ssi> yeah definitely
[10:08:52] <_methods> the $1800 one looks like it hasn't even been touched
[10:08:56] <ssi> link?
[10:08:56] <zeeshan|2> just the power source is like 3500
[10:09:03] <_methods> some rich clown on kiawah has it
[10:09:32] <zeeshan|2> everlast makes a copy for i think 1400
[10:09:40] <zeeshan|2> which works great.. till it fails
[10:09:57] <_methods> oh damn nm it's a diversion 180
[10:10:10] <ssi> yea they're $1900 new
[10:10:22] <zeeshan|2> the other problem with dynasty 200dx is
[10:10:25] <zeeshan|2> its limited to 200A
[10:10:32] <zeeshan|2> when you're trying to do thick aluminum that'll be a prob
[10:10:54] <_methods> ah 300dx for $3k
[10:11:07] <ssi> that's probably worthwhile too
[10:12:35] <zeeshan|2> http://i383.photobucket.com/albums/oo273/kevinmorin_photo/TIG%20Welds/Tankweld_2a.jpg
[10:12:39] <zeeshan|2> frequency control!
[10:13:00] <_methods> yeah that looks great
[10:13:06] <zeeshan|2> http://www.weldingtipsandtricks.com/images/aluminum-tig-weld.JPG
[10:13:08] <zeeshan|2> no freq control
[10:13:23] <zeeshan|2> its like half the width
[10:16:16] <_methods> so the dynasty's are worth the money eh
[10:16:23] <ssi> I think so
[10:16:32] <ssi> that said, I own a syncrowave :P
[10:16:39] <zeeshan|2> i dont thinkso
[10:16:43] <_methods> we have 3 syncrowaves at work
[10:16:45] <zeeshan|2> cause the transformers get the job done
[10:16:57] <zeeshan|2> and your weld being narrow isn't a big deal for most things
[10:17:01] <zeeshan|2> just ricers doing car shit
[10:17:02] <zeeshan|2> :)
[10:17:36] <zeeshan|2> its got a lot more electronics to break down..
[10:17:37] <zeeshan|2> :P
[10:18:28] <_methods> well i'll probably steal the econotig from work here to teach myself
[10:18:41] <_methods> then pick up something better once i know wtf i'm doing
[10:18:43] <_methods> and want
[10:19:16] <_methods> i'm not doing any production tig work so the duty on the econotig isn't going to hurt me
[10:20:29] <zeeshan|2> im thinking of repainting my rx7
[10:20:29] <zeeshan|2> lol
[10:20:33] <zeeshan|2> black got boring for me
[10:20:35] <zeeshan|2> https://farm8.staticflickr.com/7418/10791698875_fe8f9d0449_b.jpg
[10:20:39] <zeeshan|2> someone pasted this and wow..
[10:20:55] <zeeshan|2> or even better
[10:20:56] <zeeshan|2> http://api.viglink.com/api/click?format=go&jsonp=vglnk_142165568123310&key=24ff233912d32a355b8cad131a30546b&libId=15a13857-5d1c-4ff7-82ac-d5ffb3cf8bb4&loc=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.rx7club.com%2Fsuspension-wheels-tires-brakes-20%2Fpost-pics-your-fd-wheel-fitment-895289%2Fpage53%2F&v=1&out=http%3A%2F%2Ffarm6.staticflickr.com%2F5204%2F5723853365_0af9331202_b.jpg&ref=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.rx7club.com%2Fsuspension-
[10:21:49] <archivist> clean to bare steel heat to 293 deg c, and you have blue
[10:22:20] <zeeshan|2> lol
[10:22:33] <zeeshan|2> youd prolly warp the sheet metal!
[10:22:34] <_methods> syyl: do you like the optrel weld cap?
[10:22:49] <archivist> I just made a small oven for clock hand bluing :)
[10:23:39] <zeeshan|2> nixw
[10:23:41] <zeeshan|2> *nice
[10:24:22] <archivist> been thinking about doing it for ages and then someone asked about getting some hands blued
[10:24:23] <malcom2073> Oh man, foundry furnace going for fairly cheap on auction near me... soooo tempting :/
[10:25:49] <archivist> zeeshan|2, I think the blue matches that car almost
http://www.collection.archivist.info/archive/DJCPD/PD/2002/2002_09_18_Wheelcutting/P9190292.JPG
[10:26:02] <zeeshan|2> wow that really turned out blue
[10:26:03] <zeeshan|2> haha
[10:26:15] <ssi> archivist: color case hardening!
[10:26:31] <archivist> that was my clock makers exam piece from years ago
[10:27:34] <ssi> I want to go to clock makers school
[10:27:36] <ssi> that sounds awesome
[10:28:10] <archivist> ssi dont think it case hardens it as it is an oxygen iron effect I think
[10:28:39] <ssi> no I mean color case hardening would have been a cool look
[10:28:43] <archivist> is a rust preventing method that is also pretty
[10:28:56] <zeeshan|2> wat
[10:28:59] <ssi> I've done some salt bluing
[10:29:00] <zeeshan|2> that blue stuff will still rust!
[10:29:01] <zeeshan|2> :P
[10:29:02] <ssi> it's nasty
[10:29:20] <archivist> it does not rust for a very long time
[10:29:42] <archivist> this is not the crappy dip method
[10:29:51] <zeeshan|2> archivist: you know why i say itll rust?
[10:29:56] <zeeshan|2> when i weld stainless exhaust stuff
[10:30:00] <zeeshan|2> and drive around on it for a while
[10:30:07] <zeeshan|2> i always notice the color rusting first before the base tube
[10:30:15] <zeeshan|2> now i clean the color off
[10:30:46] <zeeshan|2> http://i54.tinypic.com/iqiqfr.jpg
[10:30:48] <zeeshan|2> that color
[10:30:54] <archivist> the rust protection on stainless is the chrome oxide
[10:31:00] <zeeshan|2> yes
[10:31:14] <zeeshan|2> but the color change is from the magnetite
[10:31:24] <archivist> I am using plain carbon steel
[10:31:45] <archivist> spring steel makes a good blue too
[10:32:07] <SpeedEvil> Galvanised, not so much
[10:43:20] <ssi> "One of the tricky bits is carrying the load around a corner. Loads concentrate at corners. As they go around the corner the load often twists, converting simple bending moment calculations involving compression and tension into load-paths so complex we're forced to kneel at the alter of Delta Vee and work them out one prayer at a time."
[10:47:09] <SpeedEvil> FEA will save us!
[11:07:34] <archivist> self levelling suspenders
[11:08:18] <Computer_barf> lol
[11:10:27] <Computer_barf> you could have your pants bounce like a lowryder
[11:11:15] <Computer_barf> Ive never understood why there arn't shirts that simply attach to the pants
[11:11:30] <Computer_barf> making the shirt itself the suspenders
[11:11:55] <Computer_barf> also , you could hang up your clothes as one piece jumpsuits
[11:12:14] <archivist> been done I think
[11:12:37] <ssi> or just use jumpsuits :P
[11:12:57] <Computer_barf> what if you are wearing your jumpsuit and want to take off your shirt?
[11:13:15] <ssi> don't take off your shirt
[11:13:20] <ssi> nobody wants to see that
[11:13:55] <Computer_barf> what if you are projecting and people DO want to see that?
[11:14:05] <Computer_barf> ;)
[11:14:18] <ssi> you've stepped outside the scenario modeled within the simulation
[11:14:36] <Computer_barf> aside , not all shirt offings are public events
[11:15:15] <Computer_barf> maybe the upper part of my jumpsuit is on fire
[11:15:29] <ssi> operators discretion in all emergencies
[11:15:36] <Computer_barf> cause everyone knows the old saying
[11:15:38] <Computer_barf> stop
[11:15:48] <Computer_barf> and take off the clothes item that is on fire.
[11:17:43] <Computer_barf> I like the jumpsuits in Alien:Isolation
[11:29:39] <malcom2073> Computer_barf: You tie the arms of the jumpsuit around your waste
[11:29:40] <malcom2073> waist*
[11:29:46] <malcom2073> Good slip though
[11:30:15] <malcom2073> You've never worn a jumpsuit in hot conditions I see :P
[11:35:51] <Computer_barf> I'm currently in Miami, I don't like this place at all
[11:36:18] <Computer_barf> can't wait until I get back to a cold climate state
[11:37:28] <Computer_barf> clothing options much more appealing to me when its cold, and I like being cold and doing things to warm up more than I like being hot and trying to cool off
[11:39:26] <Computer_barf> I can only assume living on a space station isn't a hot/humid enviroment
[11:51:54] <skunkworks> You can always put more clothes on to get warmer.. you can only take so many off to get cooler.
[11:53:13] <malcom2073> The feelings of sitting in a heated seat wiith the heat blasting isn't as good as sitting in a cooled seat with the AC blasting to me. That being said, I do prefer the cold for the above reason
[12:08:13] <skunkworks> eads done dirt cheap
[12:08:42] <skunkworks> *eeds
[12:09:08] <dirty_d> dirty deeds and they're done dirt cheap
[13:03:53] <skunkworks> PetefromTn_,
http://www.cnczone.com/forums/cincinnati-cnc/272508-cnc.html
[13:04:14] <skunkworks> I love mechardt55 reply...
[13:06:21] <ssi> lol
[13:06:34] <aventtini> hello
[13:07:56] <cthompson> I didn't know Milacron still existed
[13:10:25] <ssi> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bps80XJ0Eak
[13:11:06] <alex4nder> http://i.imgur.com/B3THCRo.jpg
[13:11:10] <alex4nder> the taig has a home
[13:14:44] <_methods> https://olimex.wordpress.com/2015/06/05/how-to-get-in-the-news-tell-people-that-you-will-make-and-sell-something-which-cost-you-20-for-9/
[13:17:00] <alex4nder> hah
[13:17:38] <ssi> lol
[13:18:26] <_methods> bewm
[13:18:31] <_methods> another kickstarter win lol
[13:19:54] <CaptHindsight> I can sell you a car for $100...
[13:20:07] <_methods> the tires will be $20k though
[13:20:14] <CaptHindsight> oh you want wheels, they are $400ea x 4 = 1600
[13:20:18] <_methods> hehe
[13:20:24] <CaptHindsight> and seats, why didn't you say so
[13:20:27] <ssi> I need to get my new laser up and running, and come up with a maker-class homebuilt airplane kit that I can make with the laser,
[13:20:30] <ssi> and kickstart kits
[13:21:03] <ssi> was just reading about testing rib designs using home depot lath boards and cardboard gussets with urethane glue
[13:21:08] <ssi> MAKER CLASS
[13:21:12] <ssi> lets see how big these guys' balls are
[13:21:42] <_methods> talk about having to eat your own dog food
[13:21:51] <_methods> i made a 3d printer so i can flyyyyy
[13:21:57] <ssi> :D
[13:22:03] <_methods> i r smart
[13:22:05] <ssi> did you watch the vid i linked?
[13:22:10] <ssi> speaking of homebuilt airplanes :D
[13:22:29] <_methods> yeah man looks good
[13:23:05] <ssi> http://bp2.blogger.com/_JU6RC7jJfRc/RyF4yTECHaI/AAAAAAAAAyU/ckKpOnIiEZQ/s1600/CHUGRIB02.JPG
[13:23:16] <ssi> he was making ribs using soda boxes as gussets :D
[13:24:25] <furrywolf> ... wtf? I ordered the cylinder hone from Zoro tools, selecting their free shipping. they shipped it OVERNIGHT.
[13:24:47] <ssi> free?
[13:24:52] <furrywolf> yes
[13:24:58] <ssi> sounds like a win
[13:25:59] <furrywolf> I ordered it yesterday afternoon, and it should be here any minute now.
[13:27:00] <furrywolf> too bad the rings are still a week out...
[13:28:44] <ssi> what're you working on?
[13:29:09] <furrywolf> honda generator
[13:32:07] <_methods> man i ordered a chop saw blade from amazon on saturday night when i was drunk
[13:32:14] <_methods> and it showed up sunday morning at 9am
[13:32:22] <_methods> and i ordered it regular shipping
[13:32:33] <furrywolf> ... sunday?
[13:32:35] <_methods> usps delivered it at 9am sunday morning
[13:32:42] <_methods> i was livid
[13:32:55] <_methods> i was like who the fuck is ringin my doorbell at 9am on sunday
[13:33:02] <furrywolf> usps doesn't do sundays here...
[13:33:04] <_methods> i was ready to kill me some jehovahs witnesses
[13:33:17] <_methods> and bewm its a usps truck
[13:33:19] <_methods> blew my mind
[13:34:04] <furrywolf> where I live now, at least we get saturdays... where I lived before here we didn't even get saturday.
[13:34:07] <_methods> i had no idea they did deliveries on sunday
[13:34:20] <cthompson> _methods: I ordered things on Amazon Prime on Friday and had them arrive on Sunday
[13:34:24] <cthompson> it's mind blowing
[13:34:25] <cthompson> USPS
[13:34:27] <_methods> yeah
[13:35:04] <cthompson> but then, Amazon doesn't really pay "per unit" anymore for shipping
[13:36:25] <furrywolf> usps will do sunday in some areas, but not here. we can't even do overnight anymore, even within the same town.
[13:36:26] <CaptHindsight> ssi: are there any regulations or approvals required for the materials used in maxing experimental or DIY aircraft?
[13:36:36] <CaptHindsight> I think I asked you this before
[13:37:47] <furrywolf> sending an envelope next door is a 2-day turnaround here. heh.
[13:38:34] <JT-Shop> it takes 3 days to get from south east Missouri to north west Arkansas and I can drive there in 3 hours lol
[13:40:11] <furrywolf> the upside is this gives a lot of business to local courier and delivery companies, because we can get something to another local city same-day rather than two-day.
[13:40:59] <CaptHindsight> CF + Resin Printer
[13:41:40] <SpeedEvil> http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/321210152209
[13:47:41] <ssi> CaptHindsight: nope
[13:47:42] <furrywolf> http://www.alternet.org/labor/horrific-new-marriage-between-your-post-office-and-amazon-sunday
[13:48:00] <ssi> CaptHindsight: it needs an airworthiness inspection by a Designated Airworthiness Representative at the end, that's it
[13:48:13] <ssi> if you can convince the DAR that it's not going to kill you on the first flight, you'll get an airworthiness certificate
[13:48:38] <ssi> then you'll have to do a 40 hour phase I flight test in a particular chunk of airspace (usually like 50nm radius from home base), day VFR only, no passengers
[13:48:43] <ssi> after that you're golden
[13:49:36] <furrywolf> ... demonstrating that it doesn't actually kill you on the first flight. :P
[13:49:41] <ssi> exactly
[13:49:47] <ssi> they won't sign off anything that's blatantly unsafe
[13:49:56] <ssi> beyond that, flight testing is supposed to prove the design
[13:50:11] <ssi> the FAA doesn't care if you kill yourself
[13:50:23] <ssi> they only care that you don't kill other people who don't voluntarily sign up for you to kill them
[13:50:29] <ssi> and that nobody will sue them if you kill someone
[13:50:38] <ssi> their only goal is CYA
[13:52:13] <furrywolf> "When I came in, the evening shift manager stormed over to me and blurted out “There better not be any Amazon packages in there!”" amazon doesn't do that just to usps... when I've delivered them, we're always told that if we're out of time or having other problems, first we deliver the perishables, then the amazon, then everything else...
[13:52:47] <furrywolf> Staples is right up there with amazon in terms of bitching-excessively-while-paying-minimally.
[14:00:57] <Poma> Hello peoples
[14:02:16] <Poma> I'm not quite understanding the mapping of the Mesa's GPIO.
[14:02:36] <Poma> I have a 5i25 & 7i77
[14:03:15] <ssi> well there's 5i25 gpio, and then there's 7i77 gpio
[14:03:29] <Poma> The 7i77 has physical input pins and output pins, however HAL has GPIO pins
[14:04:25] <ssi> which hal pins are you looking at
[14:04:38] <ssi> I don't have it in front of me, so I can't recall exactly what the names are
[14:05:10] <Poma> hm2_5i25.0.gpio
[14:05:38] <ssi> see you want to look for the pins that look more like this:
[14:05:39] <ssi> hm2_5i25.0.7i76.0.0.output-00
[14:05:46] <ssi> obv you have a 7i77 not 7i76, but same idea
[14:05:54] <Poma> there is a .7i77 on the same leve as GPIO, but there are only analog
[14:06:20] <ssi> if you don't have the 7i77 gpio pins showing up in hal, that might suggest that your field io isn't powered
[14:06:46] <Poma> I have to run out for a while... be back!
[14:06:56] <ssi> the reason for the confusion is the fact that 7i77's field IO section is its own processor that communicates with hm2 via smartserial
[14:07:06] <ssi> so it shows up as a separate device which is a child of the 5i25
[14:07:19] <ssi> and the 5i25's gpios are the actual physical gpio pins on the DB25 connectors
[14:09:06] * furrywolf still needs a 7i76e
[14:09:14] <ssi> get one
[14:09:23] <ssi> I ordered a 7i90 and an 8i20 last week
[14:09:27] <ssi> I hope they come soooon
[14:09:58] <furrywolf> my money is currently negative, not positive... spent money fixing some of these generators, now need to sell one of them...
[14:10:18] <ssi> generate some cash flow
[14:10:21] <ssi> hurr hurrrrr
[14:10:35] <furrywolf> ?
[14:10:48] <ssi> nm :P
[14:11:18] * furrywolf starts charging zeeshan consulting fees. :P
[14:12:09] <malcom2073> Time to see if I can win an auction on a foundry
[14:12:29] <ssi> lol
[14:12:37] <ssi> malcom2073: what sort of foundry?
[14:12:42] <malcom2073> http://cdn.publicsurplus.com/sms/docviewer/cdnaucdoc/img/1378587/13250948
[14:12:54] <ssi> niiice
[14:12:54] <malcom2073> Gas fired small one
[14:13:00] <malcom2073> comes with tons of tooling
[14:13:01] <ssi> git it
[14:13:02] <malcom2073> and sand forms
[14:13:04] <ssi> then I'll come over and use it :D
[14:13:25] <malcom2073> It's at $380, 8 minutes left. gonna bid up to $500
[14:13:35] * ssi bids 501
[14:14:12] <malcom2073> Hah
[14:14:22] <ssi> :D
[14:15:30] <furrywolf> I could fix one of the eu3000ises up to sellable condition in about an hour... I probably should do that. I'm just really tired today.
[14:15:30] <malcom2073> hmm, two other guys are bidding against me
[14:15:54] <cthompson> "speedy melt"
[14:16:39] <malcom2073> Aww, outbid.
[14:17:19] <furrywolf> bid more!
[14:17:21] <furrywolf> :P
[14:17:34] <malcom2073> Nah, I'm out. Damn
[14:17:52] <furrywolf> my favorite auction was one of the public ones here, when the organizers decided to give out free beer. it's amazing how much the bids went up along with the BACs...
[14:17:57] <malcom2073> Haha
[14:18:02] <malcom2073> That's a good idea
[14:18:02] <cthompson> it's only money
[14:18:24] <furrywolf> they had a quad with a trailer of kegs going around handing out beer in plastic cups...
[14:18:52] <cthompson> it's a model that's worked well in Vegas
[14:18:53] <malcom2073> Smart
[14:18:53] <furrywolf> as the crowd started getting drunk, the about of bidding idiocy went waaaay up... people paying more than retail, etc...
[14:19:22] <malcom2073> That *almost* sounds like it should be illegal
[14:19:42] <furrywolf> I'm not sure getting your customers drunk is illegal.
[14:19:49] <malcom2073> However, when my dad dies, and they come in to auction his machine shop, I will employ that tactic.
[14:20:02] <furrywolf> ... you're not going to keep it all yourself?
[14:20:11] <malcom2073> By that time I'll have most of what he has
[14:20:18] <malcom2073> Already have a mill and lathe :P
[14:21:35] <furrywolf> I have a mill and a lathe, but need substantially larger ones.
[14:21:47] <malcom2073> My mills is bigger than his, my lathe is smaller though
[14:21:57] <furrywolf> my sherline can't part off anything over about a half inch diameter... which doesn't matter too much since the spindle bore is only 3/8... lol
[14:23:39] <malcom2073> alright, auction over, I'm off to home, bbl
[14:24:07] <JT-Shop> furrywolf, is your sherline cnc?
[14:24:16] <furrywolf> no
[14:24:22] <furrywolf> the sherline mill is, but not the lathe
[14:24:47] <furrywolf> the lathe is OLD. it predates the variable speed motor, for example.
[14:24:53] <JT-Shop> how accurate is your mill? a guy on the forum is struggling with his
[14:25:08] <furrywolf> not very, but might has unevenly worn ways due to former production use
[14:25:20] <furrywolf> if I tighten the gibs to make it tight at the middle, it binds at the ends.
[14:25:36] <furrywolf> and it has backlash everywhere
[14:25:43] <JT-Shop> that makes sense, time to break out the scrapers
[14:26:00] <furrywolf> time to find a larger machine. :P
[14:26:14] <JT-Shop> the guy on the forum thinks his should be as good as his segex2
[14:28:03] <furrywolf> hrmm, amex wants me to pick between airfare, hotels, gas, restaurants, car rentals, shipping, or advertising for my 3% cash back... bah, decisions!
[14:28:33] <furrywolf> I wish I could keep the 4% I get with my costco amex, but I think they're getting rid of it.
[14:30:02] <furrywolf> because they're annoyed with costco, the gas category specifically excludes warehouse stores. lol
[14:30:40] * furrywolf picks restaurants, generally never using any of the other categories
[14:33:05] <furrywolf> I think the sherline has the potential to be a very accurate machine
[14:33:19] <furrywolf> especially if you order their fancy upgrades
[14:35:40] <furrywolf> mine is old, and has the old-style backlash adjusters that never quite worked, no z-axis backlash adjustment, etc... all these have been fixed in newer models.
[14:37:16] <aventtini> hello friends has anyone hijack a EXE box from TNC
[14:37:34] <aventtini> i have some long liniar scales and i need to convert to TTL
[14:40:06] <aventtini> any one on ?
[14:40:35] <furrywolf> I have no idea what an exe box is nor who tnc is...
[14:43:23] <ssi> aventtini: I guess you're talking about scales that output sin/cos analog, and you need interpolators for them to treat them as ttl encoders?
[14:43:43] <aventtini> yes scales
[14:43:55] <aventtini> i have the original TNC155
[14:44:15] <aventtini> and i was thinking to get the bord out and see if i can get the ttl out
[14:44:16] * furrywolf is too tired to be useful, and curls up and yawns
[14:44:39] <ssi> zeeshan|2 has some experience with the heidenhain linear scales and interpolator
[14:44:58] <aventtini> i sow but he is not online
[14:45:33] <aventtini> i have a huron and a beaver with same liniar scales
[14:45:37] <aventtini> LS703
[14:46:54] <aventtini> i dont want to change them
[14:47:03] <aventtini> with some china stuff
[15:08:25] <furrywolf> how do you restore shine to plastic scuffed with a scotchbrite pad?
[15:09:33] <dirty_d> working down grades of wet sandpaper then polishing compound?
[15:10:22] <furrywolf> the eu2000 I was working on was really dirty, also with a lot of sticker or tape residue... gave up using a rag, got it all clean with a scotch brite pad... which looked great until it dried.
[15:10:31] <furrywolf> it's heavily textured, can't sand.
[15:10:40] <dirty_d> my idiot friend sprayed engine degreaser on his headlights to try to clean them after i told him it would melt the plastic
[15:10:48] <dirty_d> 1000 grit wet sandpaper did pretty good
[15:12:01] <furrywolf> yeah, that works on smooth surfaces... not textured ones.
[15:12:34] <dirty_d> whats a eu2000?
[15:12:49] <dirty_d> google images suggest generator
[15:14:12] <dirty_d> maybe spray pain it with clear coat?
[15:14:50] <furrywolf> yes, generator.
[15:14:54] <furrywolf> all plastic
[15:14:56] <furrywolf> inside and out!
[15:15:06] <XXCoder> 100%?
[15:15:06] <furrywolf> if they could have made the block plastic, they would have. :)
[15:15:12] <XXCoder> heh
[15:15:33] <furrywolf> I've tried clearcoating damaged plastic before, and it sorta works, but not real well...
[15:16:10] <furrywolf> I might head by the auto parts store and look for a plastic wax.
[15:16:18] <dirty_d> good idea
[15:16:53] <furrywolf> I could also try polishing compound and a soft buffing wheel, but that's a lot of work.
[15:17:50] <XXCoder> dunno if I would want generator to look shiny and new
[15:18:00] <furrywolf> it looks like shit now. lol
[15:18:05] <XXCoder> clean yes but polish and so on?
[15:18:28] <furrywolf> I didn't realize how badly I was fucking it up until the water dried... it looked great while wet...
[15:18:37] <furrywolf> I scotch-brited the eu3000 I fixed before with no problems.
[15:19:16] <XXCoder> just add water sprayer to constanually keep it wet ;)
[15:19:18] <XXCoder> jk
[15:19:19] <XXCoder> https://namedropping.files.wordpress.com/2012/05/kohls-staples-dicks.jpg
[15:19:26] <XXCoder> funny
[15:19:34] <XXCoder> work safe if you wonder
[15:19:54] <furrywolf> ... ok?
[15:20:09] <furrywolf> I take it someone is finding it funny that there's a business named Dick's?
[15:20:21] <XXCoder> read signs top down
[15:20:49] <furrywolf> heh, forum posts suggest lightly hitting the plastic with a heat gun
[15:21:04] <XXCoder> ah reflow
[15:21:09] <XXCoder> bit risky
[15:21:27] <furrywolf> midtowne park, kohl's, staples, dick's, something to blurry to read?
[15:22:01] <furrywolf> dick's is visible to the right of the sign, with a matching sign, so it's their standard font/etc...
[15:22:52] <furrywolf> hrmm, another suggestion is 0000 steel wool.
[15:29:42] <XXCoder> furrywolf: read down, starting with kohls
[15:33:42] <furrywolf> yay, found some turtle wax 2000 vinyl, leather, rubber, and plastic protectant in a box of car chemicals... generator is now very, very shiny.
[15:33:50] <furrywolf> and it took minimal effort!
[15:35:24] <furrywolf> obviously not a permanent fix, but it made it look good.
[15:35:42] <XXCoder> nice!
[15:39:15] <furrywolf> now I know... scotch-brite pads are good for the eu3000, bad for the eu2000.
[15:40:57] <furrywolf> it's pretty much the same stuff as armorall or the like... it'll make it shiny for a while, but doesn't have any long-lasting effects.
[15:46:06] <dutchfish> why are HF spindles used so much on routertables? Isnt low rpm and feed rates better? at least more quiet and less virbrations. That is if i respect feedrates versus # of tooth and rpm's in my calculations.
[15:46:11] <syyl> _methods
[15:46:16] <syyl> yeah i like that thing
[15:46:27] <syyl> the fact that it has a cutout for the nose in the darkening unit
[15:46:30] <syyl> makes it very nice
[15:46:55] <cradek> you actually need very fast cutter speed for wood
[15:47:30] <dutchfish> cradek, i am planning mostly on aluminium and alu-bronze
[15:48:00] <cradek> ah ok, usually I think of "router" as something that cuts wood
[15:48:06] <dutchfish> yeh
[15:48:21] <cradek> spindles for cutting aluminum will be much slower
[15:48:28] <dutchfish> think hf shielding and frontplates
[15:48:46] <cradek> like 200-400 sfm
[15:48:46] <dutchfish> cradek, any guestimate on that?
[15:48:57] <cradek> on what?
[15:49:05] <dutchfish> rpm's
[15:49:28] <cradek> 200-400 sfm, calculate rpm according to your expected cutter size
[15:49:44] <dutchfish> i have a high torque motor that can go from a few hundred to 3000rpm tops
[15:49:44] <cradek> or check the cutter manufacturer's recommendations
[15:50:09] <dutchfish> 3 phase
[15:50:14] <cradek> many metal-cutting mills top out around 3000 but that's awfully slow if you want to use small tools
[15:50:34] <dutchfish> ok
[15:50:42] <cradek> but if you use 3/4 tools it's probably fine
[15:50:49] <dutchfish> i dont care about speed, only on precision
[15:51:07] <dutchfish> all my stuff will be one offs anyway
[15:51:35] <dutchfish> cradek, thank you for that info
[15:52:36] <dutchfish> cradek, on emore benifit is that i can run at night because that motor is awfully quiet
[15:53:47] <dutchfish> there are sound restriction where i live
[15:56:30] <dutchfish> so, it boils all down to surface speed per minute and without the specs of that particular bit, right?
[15:56:47] <dutchfish> s/speed/feed
[15:58:01] <dutchfish> sorry i ask maybe the obvious, i am new to this
[15:58:49] <dutchfish> i used RPM = (12 x SFM) / (3.1416 x Diameter)
[15:59:31] <dutchfish> since i use metrics m/min = (3.1416 x Diameter x RPM) / 1000
[15:59:38] <dutchfish> is that right?
[16:02:56] <dutchfish> no, it is wrong i forgot the # of tooth again, never mind
[16:04:29] <XXCoder> dutchfish: can always build egg carton foam surrounds
[16:07:20] <Deejay> gn8
[16:09:01] <dutchfish> XXCoder, isnt that messy with mist coolant?
[16:09:35] <XXCoder> yeah dunno maybe inside sheets to block chips from hitting foam?
[16:09:42] <XXCoder> just rough idea
[16:09:49] <dutchfish> XXCoder, yes
[16:11:08] <dutchfish> XXCoder, maybe sound studio absorber wall foam
[16:11:29] <dutchfish> XXCoder, and a mesh wire to block the chips
[16:11:45] <dutchfish> dunno
[16:12:02] <XXCoder> dunno gonna think about effects, like long term keepoing it clean and so on
[16:12:15] <dutchfish> yes
[16:12:25] <XXCoder> im considering it too since prety much same problem here
[16:12:48] <dutchfish> XXCoder, right, neighbors dont love the sound of hf spindles
[16:13:57] <dutchfish> i will dream something up
[16:15:17] <dutchfish> compiled for x64 debian jessie a few days back,
http://www.yellowsource.org/images/cnc/linuxcnc_sim_2.7.0~pre6_on_debian_jessie_8.1_x64.png
[16:32:44] <Computer_barf> im trying to set the size of my bed to the correct settings in my .ini
[16:33:19] <Computer_barf> i see MIN_LIMIT = -30.0 , MAX_LIMIT = 30.0
[16:33:45] <Computer_barf> so i presume when its formatted like that 0 would be the center of the bed correct?
[17:29:53] <_methods> yes that would be the center of the bed
[17:44:11] <Computer_barf> so if my c7 ballscrews move 5mm per revolution
[17:44:30] <Computer_barf> and ive got my drivers at 2000 steps per revolution
[17:44:44] <Computer_barf> i should have my scale at 400?
[17:45:28] <Computer_barf> at that setting it looks like it is moving the correct amount by eyeball
[17:45:40] <Computer_barf> but now my jogging is super slow
[17:48:12] <MrSunshine> increase maximum velocity ? hold down shift while you jog ?
[17:51:02] <Computer_barf> max_velocity = 2000
[17:52:15] <Computer_barf> added another zero , seems to be going about the same speed
[17:59:52] <malcom2073> 2000 is mm/minute
[18:00:10] <malcom2073> 20000 is silly fast
[18:01:39] <Computer_barf> in jog speed, right now when i set it to the maximum it says 60mm/min
[18:01:58] <Computer_barf> it moves super slow
[18:02:19] <malcom2073> Right, 60mm/min *is* super slow, what GUI are you using?
[18:02:28] <Computer_barf> axis
[18:03:54] <Computer_barf> even at 20000 though it was still moving around the same speed
[18:04:22] <malcom2073> At 20000, it still says 60mm/min?
[18:04:56] <malcom2073> What's the lowest Max_Velocity in your ini file?
[18:16:21] <Computer_barf> well ive been changing things around trying to see if i can get it working in the meantime, i could try any value you suggest
[18:17:22] <Computer_barf> i have set linear_units to mm
[18:17:42] <Computer_barf> and my c7 ballscrew move 5mm per rotation
[18:18:03] <Computer_barf> and my drivers are currently set to 400 steps per rotation
[18:18:28] <Computer_barf> so scale is now at 80
[18:19:49] <alex4nder> hmm.. pncconf won't let me set the axis max linear velocity > 100 ipm
[18:20:08] <Computer_barf> well im not doing ipm
[18:20:26] <alex4nder> (I'm talking about my own machine)
[18:20:31] <Computer_barf> ahh sorry
[18:28:33] <Computer_barf> alex4nder: what kind of machine?
[18:28:41] <alex4nder> Computer_barf: a little taig
[18:28:44] <alex4nder> mill
[18:31:23] <Computer_barf> man im confused as all
[18:33:27] <Computer_barf> if I increase the scale, then yes the mill will move faster
[18:33:35] <Computer_barf> but then my units are way off
[18:35:12] <alex4nder> Computer_barf: so the thing that should control your speed are the max trajectory
[18:35:29] <alex4nder> so if you get your units in order, you should be able to drive it as fast as your hardware/machine can move
[18:35:47] <alex4nder> (scrolls back and reads)
[18:36:32] <Computer_barf> yeah to get it moving the right number of mm per rotation, im setting it to 80 scale, 400 steps per rotation
[18:36:49] <Computer_barf> and if i measure it, although it moves super slow, it seems to move the right amount
[18:37:14] <Computer_barf> but ... modifying the velocity and accelleration settings don't seem to get it moving at a reasonable speed.. its like snail
[18:37:36] <alex4nder> what speed does Axis think it should be moving?
[18:38:03] <Computer_barf> i would have to change the settings back
[18:38:18] <Computer_barf> i currently set the scale to a higher value
[18:39:40] <Computer_barf> 60mm/min
[18:39:45] <Computer_barf> at the max on the jog speed
[18:40:40] <Computer_barf> which seems about right.. it moves about a mm per seond
[18:40:42] <Computer_barf> second
[18:40:51] <alex4nder> is this a really slow machine?
[18:40:55] <Computer_barf> no
[18:41:01] <Computer_barf> ive had it moving much much faster
[18:41:12] <alex4nder> ok, so how are you writing your config files?
[18:41:15] <Computer_barf> just not at this scale
[18:41:33] <Computer_barf> modifying files I got from PCW for the mesa cards
[18:41:51] <alex4nder> ok, then what is your MAX_LINEAR_VELOCITY?
[18:42:40] <Computer_barf> http://pastebin.com/wrbT1Vqt
[18:42:43] <Computer_barf> not seeing that..
[18:43:11] <Computer_barf> max velocity and max accelleration ive tried a number of speeds
[18:43:40] <Computer_barf> i could post the hal file if need be
[18:44:12] <Computer_barf> its just that the original file had the scale up at a much higher number
[18:44:13] <malcom2073> Your Axis_2 max velocity is 2.5
[18:44:29] <malcom2073> iirc, Axis sets jog max to the smallest axis doesn't it?
[18:44:31] <Computer_barf> well im just trying to figure out the x axis at the moment
[18:44:43] <Computer_barf> ahhh that might explain it then
[18:44:52] <Computer_barf> if one axis might constrain all the others
[18:45:16] <Computer_barf> going to test that theory now
[18:52:09] <Computer_barf> yeah no .. still super slow
[18:53:39] <alex4nder> Computer_barf: when you open up axis, what do your Max Velocity and Jog Speed sliders say?
[18:54:17] <Computer_barf> jog speed 60mm/min
[18:54:39] <Computer_barf> max velocity 60000 mm/min
[18:54:57] <alex4nder> and you can't turn your jog speed up at all?
[18:55:02] <alex4nder> it's completely to the right?
[18:55:08] <Computer_barf> yes , to the max
[18:55:53] <Computer_barf> im going to try doing a diffrent number of steps per rotation on the drivers and calculate a new scale number
[18:57:34] <alex4nder> Computer_barf: I think you just need to put a MAX_LINEAR_VELOCITY = $whatever inside [DISPLAY]
[18:58:02] <alex4nder> just match the maximum velocity number you have for the axis you're testing
[18:58:25] <alex4nder> also make sure your [TRAJ] has the same MAX_LINEAR_VELOCITY
[19:06:51] <Computer_barf> [TRAJ]?
[19:10:28] <Computer_barf> if you have it set to mm , is the scale in accordance to a mm as the unit?
[19:17:30] <alex4nder> Computer_barf: TRAJ is the trajectory planner config
[19:17:37] <Computer_barf> found it
[19:18:16] <Computer_barf> adding the max linear velocity to that and each axis has raised the jog speed slider
[19:18:27] <Computer_barf> but when i raise it im getting joint 0 following error
[19:38:49] <Computer_barf> ok i got it behaving
[19:39:13] <Computer_barf> alex4nder: thanks much, your tips helped out big.
[19:39:38] <Computer_barf> im gonna go to the hottub and drink a beer. Jeebus, that was annoying.
[19:39:38] <alex4nder> awesome
[19:41:00] <Computer_barf> bbl
[19:59:52] <PetefromTn_> Damn that Calzone was yummy but now I am gonna pay for it LOL...
[20:09:33] <norias> lol
[20:10:55] <PetefromTn_> I swear I am looking for a 4x4 suv right now and I want a manual tranny.....THERE ARE NONE!! Doesn't anyone drive stick shifts anymore?
[20:11:24] <malcom2073> Jeep!
[20:11:32] <malcom2073> Jeep Cherokees came with standards
[20:12:07] <PetefromTn_> I know right.... I think those are good trucks but not a big fan myself.
[20:12:32] <malcom2073> I've had a couple late 80's early 90's
[20:12:53] <PetefromTn_> they make a good crawler
[20:13:08] <malcom2073> Do really good for delivering pizza's in the snow too :-D
[20:14:42] <norias> hmm
[20:15:01] <norias> i don't think i'd buy a post-2003 suv
[20:15:03] <norias> myself
[20:15:15] <PetefromTn_> http://i.imgur.com/tuBM2jA.jpg thinking about an Xterra maybe....
[20:15:16] <norias> well, maybe a suburban
[20:15:19] <malcom2073> I got a 2004, and I'm fairly convinced I'll never get anything newer
[20:15:27] <malcom2073> Expedition
[20:15:56] <norias> does that xterra have a ladder frame?
[20:16:09] <norias> it's probably silly, but i like my trucks and suv's to have a ladder frame
[20:17:01] <PetefromTn_> http://s804.photobucket.com/user/madmorbius/media/Winterbeast/IMG_4194.jpg.html
[20:17:09] <PetefromTn_> yeah I believe it does
[20:17:56] <PetefromTn_> http://i666.photobucket.com/albums/vv22/JSPalmieri/Xterra%20Modifications/IMG_2170.jpg I drove one while looking at used car lots the other day.. it was pretty nice really I thought
[20:18:49] <PetefromTn_> they made them with 5 speed 4x4 but finding one is not looking too easy. Everyone I see is a soccer mom automatic and lots of 2wd models
[20:18:58] <norias> heh
[20:19:09] <norias> i like GM products
[20:19:20] <norias> because the suv's are made by the truck division
[20:20:14] <PetefromTn_> yep
[20:20:48] <norias> i worked with a guy who did a good stint at GM as an engineer
[20:21:15] <norias> explained that the truck division has a team per vehicle / platform
[20:21:37] <norias> whereas the car division has a body team per vehicle
[20:21:50] <norias> and a drivetrain team that covers several vehicles
[20:22:04] <norias> so, if you are in the body team, it's really hard to get drivetrain changes
[20:22:08] <zeeshan|2> aventtini: hi
[20:22:15] <norias> you have to design the body around what they give you
[20:22:20] <norias> but in the truck division
[20:22:31] <norias> if an enginer bolt will be hard to reach or whatever
[20:22:38] <norias> it's easy to ask to get it moved
[20:47:49] <Computer_barf> if only there was some digital communication medium they could use to keep the teams in touch with one another.
[21:21:18] <zeeshan|2> http://i.imgur.com/ToLiUlr.jpg
[21:21:24] <zeeshan|2> pressure control coming soon!
[21:21:28] <zeeshan|2> http://i.imgur.com/p03Y8Te.jpg
[21:36:51] <TekniQue> zeeshan|2: what're you building?
[21:59:12] <furrywolf> meh. I'm not happy with the crosshatch I got, but I don't want to hone more and take off too much metal.
[21:59:45] <furrywolf> the dingleberry hone is not nearly as nice as the claims. to be effective, it really needs some type of cylinder the size of the bore mounted above and below the engine's cylinder.
[22:01:02] <furrywolf> if you keep the brush inside the bore, you get a sinusoidal shape, especially at the ends of the bore. if you remove the brush partway from the bore on the ends of the stroke, it completely fucks up the lip where the head gasket needs to seat. if you remove it entirely from the bore, in addition to fucking up the lip even worse, it bends trying to go back in.
[22:02:03] <furrywolf> not pleased with the result at all. I only have a crosshatch in the middle of the cylinder, and the lip is fucked up.
[22:03:06] <roycroft> i prefer the hones that have a number of straight stones spring mounted parallel to the sides of the cylinder
[22:03:11] <furrywolf> and it dumps tons of grit down in the block. much worse than a 3-stone hone.
[22:03:24] <roycroft> those ones with all the little balls always struck me as pretty wonky, at best
[22:03:30] <furrywolf> roycroft: yeah, I have one of those, but everyone said "no, those are evil, get a ball hone!"...
[22:03:47] <roycroft> so what you're saying is that i'm not everybody
[22:04:26] <furrywolf> correct. because you didn't chime in either of the times I asked about it, or add to any of the web sites or forum posts I found. :P
[22:04:35] <roycroft> i wasn't around
[22:04:45] <roycroft> you should have waited :P
[22:05:22] <roycroft> so hopefully you've gone back with a proper hone and fixed it
[22:05:24] <furrywolf> if you had same-diameter cylinders on either end of the engine's cylinder to keep the balls contained, I think it'd leave an excellent finish, quickly.
[22:05:33] <roycroft> mayhap
[22:05:52] <roycroft> but i would posit that having to install those other cylinders would be a significant drawback
[22:06:05] <roycroft> that far outweighs any possible advantage of using the little ball thing in the first place
[22:06:16] <furrywolf> it's not fixable. heh. the lip is worn, and the 3-stone hones have the problem with sinusoidal shapes as well...
[22:06:27] <roycroft> what problem does the straight stone hone have that the ball hone addresses?
[22:07:30] <furrywolf> less tolerant of poor alignment between your handheld drill and the bore
[22:07:48] <roycroft> so the ball hone is a tool for the unskilled
[22:08:06] <roycroft> that produces the finish of the unskilled
[22:08:13] <furrywolf> and those kneeling in a muddy driveway, like me. :P
[22:08:29] <furrywolf> where doing anything square is hard
[22:08:54] <roycroft> i've never used a ball hone
[22:09:02] <furrywolf> I've used one once! :P
[22:09:03] <roycroft> so i can't speak from experience
[22:09:15] <roycroft> but i always thought it would be suboptimal
[22:09:31] <roycroft> your experience does nothing but underscore that notion
[22:09:52] <furrywolf> the biggest problem is when the balls leave the bore, they fuck up the lip when you push it back in
[22:10:06] <furrywolf> they concentrate stress strongly on that lip and chew it up
[22:10:07] <roycroft> yes, i can see that happening
[22:10:21] <roycroft> your lip turns into a rough chamfer
[22:10:29] <Valen> are you meant to push it back in under power?
[22:10:34] <furrywolf> while the straight stones, as long as you don't let more than a third of the length out, won't do that.
[22:10:39] <furrywolf> Valen: yes
[22:11:18] <furrywolf> Valen: you want to have the stones travelling at a 45 degree angle to the bore, so you have to stroke it in and out at the same speed as the surface rotation speed...
[22:11:50] <Valen> I figured start in the middle, pull it out, start in the middle again, in reverse then pull out
[22:12:03] <roycroft> i'll continue to not use a ball hone
[22:12:08] <Valen> won't do wonders for your bore though I guess
[22:12:18] <furrywolf> you never want to run it in or out without it rotating, because that creates vertical marks, which are extra-bad.
[22:12:32] <roycroft> they cause oil gushes
[22:12:34] <Valen> ahh
[22:12:46] <Valen> start out the bottom of the block with it spinning
[22:12:54] <Valen> then pull up through in one direction
[22:13:04] <Valen> re start it with it in reverse
[22:13:07] <furrywolf> and how do you get it back down? :)
[22:13:24] <furrywolf> with a small engine, there's not enough room to feed the brush in through the bottom.
[22:13:25] <roycroft> by throwing it away and replacing it with a proper hone :)
[22:13:38] <roycroft> well
[22:13:39] <roycroft> better yet
[22:13:46] <Valen> see I'll just take mine to the engine guy who I do computers for ;->
[22:13:49] <roycroft> sell it on ebay as "vintage" for 2x what you paid for it
[22:14:43] <furrywolf> Valen: shops are very expensive.
[22:15:01] <furrywolf> bbl, back to cleaning the crap out of the block.
[22:15:01] <Valen> yeah, I need to do my engine
[22:15:10] <Valen> but I have nowhere to do it
[22:15:14] <Valen> :-<
[22:15:15] <roycroft> it sounds like valen has a barter arrangement that works well
[22:15:46] <roycroft> i make your pr0n download faster
[22:15:51] <roycroft> you make my car go faster
[22:16:20] <roycroft> and variations on that theme
[22:19:11] <norias> i am entirely convinced that whoever does recruiting for manufacturing
[22:19:17] <norias> is dumber than a box of rocks
[22:22:20] * furrywolf doesn't like porn, so wouldn't do that trade
[22:22:41] <furrywolf> one more soaking in engine brite, another hose-down, and will oil it and call it good.
[22:24:40] <furrywolf> I left in one bearing due to excessive difficulty getting it out... cleaning very thouroughly.
[23:10:58] <furrywolf> cleaned up for the night. now I get to wait for rings.
[23:37:30] <toastyde2th> has anyone in here worked on the motion control part of linuxcnc
[23:37:56] <alex4nder> do you mean actual control, or the planning for the control?
[23:38:26] <furrywolf> Ask an actual question. :)
[23:38:31] <toastyde2th> specifically the planning for the control
[23:38:37] <toastyde2th> I was curious what it does
[23:38:57] <alex4nder> I'd suggest reading a lot of source
[23:39:52] <toastyde2th> that seems like a huge amount of investment to determine a rather quick answer, there's not a ton of different ways to do a motion planner
[23:40:20] <alex4nder> you haven't asked any questions
[23:40:26] <toastyde2th> okay, thanks.
[23:40:36] <alex4nder> you're welcome.
[23:42:21] <toastyde2th> Jymmm, cradek do you have a 10 second rundown on how the motion planner works in linuxcnc, I'm trying to compare it to how fourth derivative controls plan motion
[23:50:31] <furrywolf> http://www.alpha.com/index.php/outside-plant-power/generators/item/alphagen-dcx-3000 that's cool. no idea they made dc-output eu3000s...
[23:52:42] <furrywolf> http://www.ebay.com/itm/ALPHAGEN-DCX3000-36-48V-DC-GENERATOR-NEW-WITH-ACCESSORIES-041-028-10-/321772512458 and they're fucking cheap, too
[23:53:35] <furrywolf> I could buy those, swap in used eu3000is stators, inverters, and control panels, and make a good profit...
[23:53:56] <furrywolf> $329 is about the cost of a new motor for an eu3000is
[23:55:25] <norias> piece by piece
[23:55:33] <norias> i'm figuring out how to do machining contracts
[23:55:35] <norias> for the DoD
[23:56:28] * furrywolf wouldn't do work for the DoD
