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[00:19:01] <furrywolf> yay, motor works now. hammered out the crimps, cleaned everything, re-adjusted the brush springs, put it back together, chiseled+hammered new staking.
[00:19:51] * furrywolf isn't going to pay the "because we have no competition" prices honda charges
[00:28:22] <furrywolf> bbl
[01:05:16] <Valen> so introductory engineering question, as an exercise I rearranged hookes law to work out how much area is needed to have a set amount of elongation under a load. I get Area = Force / ((change in length / length) * youngs modulus)
[01:39:00] <zeeshan> that is only v alid in the linear elastic region tho
[01:39:13] <zeeshan> and uniaxial tension only
[01:39:31] <zeeshan> actually i take that back
[01:40:05] <zeeshan> what kind of loading is the thing under?
[01:42:35] <zeeshan> wake up valen!
[01:42:51] <archivist> youngs modulus can be pretty similar for different materials, shape matters more
[01:44:00] <zeeshan> i took it back because under uniaxial tension
[01:44:01] <zeeshan> you
[01:44:19] <zeeshan> you get usually contraction in the perpendicular direction
[01:46:55] <zeeshan> http://imgur.com/JSmXk9m
[01:47:01] <zeeshan> http://i.imgur.com/urYCtja.jpg
[01:47:04] <zeeshan> pipe notching success
[01:48:07] <archivist> you going to wels inside as well :)
[01:48:12] <archivist> weld
[01:48:40] <zeeshan> wat
[01:49:21] <archivist> gas flow dem pipes
[01:49:34] <zeeshan> i really dislike log style manifolds
[01:49:37] <zeeshan> so inefficient
[01:49:41] <zeeshan> but its all i can fit :/
[01:52:24] <archivist> get the discontinuities right for best fuel air mixing :)
[01:54:01] <zeeshan> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lr4yJXRdc6Q
[01:54:02] <zeeshan> lol
[01:55:40] <zeeshan> squeek squeek squeek
[02:00:06] <archivist> that reminds me of
http://www.collection.archivist.info/searchv13.php?searchstr=southbend+miller
[02:00:32] <zeeshan> lol
[02:00:34] <archivist> cutting the old wheels off a chair base
[02:00:36] <zeeshan> bandsaw!
[02:01:08] <zeeshan> do you recall how fast you were feeding?
[02:01:36] <zeeshan> brb need to cook something
[02:04:26] * Valen is back
[02:05:07] <archivist> zeeshan, it is a manuals lathe, enough feed
[02:06:05] <Valen> zeeshan / archivist, I was looking at the general case, if the underlying maths is right then I understand how I-Beams work ;->
[02:06:47] <Valen> and it would imply that for a given I Beam (with an ideal upright) increasing the thickness of the flats would decrease the deflection for a given load
[02:07:35] <archivist> the elasticity of the steel is a constant, I the shape that makes a good beam
[02:08:13] <Valen> I get that, but is what I said right?
[02:08:30] <Valen> a thicker flat would reduce the deflection?
[02:09:42] <archivist> deeper reduces it more than thickening the edge
[02:10:40] <archivist> because the elasticity is constant
[02:11:41] <Valen> yeah, the trig functions mean that it is going to be seeing more tension for the same deflection?
[02:11:52] <archivist> if you get Roarkes Stesses and strains book you will get all the maths for the shape factor
[02:12:14] <Valen> (I'm not trying to design a beam yet, I'm trying to understand the maths behind the whole thing ;->)
[02:12:52] <archivist> actual title Roark's formulas for stress and strains
[02:13:57] <archivist> lots of the formulas given in all the books are special cases for the situation they show
[02:14:27] <archivist> lots of simplifications used to make it easier
[02:14:45] <Valen> I'd better go get myself a heater and perve on the girl in the book shop
[02:14:47] <Valen> back in a bit
[02:24:00] <Deejay> moin
[02:40:41] <zeeshan> Valen: hookes law is the basis
[02:40:53] <zeeshan> but when you generalize it for 3d, its different
[02:41:41] <archivist> and buckling :)
[02:41:48] <zeeshan> and even in bending
[02:41:49] <zeeshan> its diff
[02:42:01] <zeeshan> geometry comes into play
[02:42:28] <archivist> and then....why you no add webs there?
[02:43:53] <zeeshan> basically comes down to sigma = Mc/I
[02:44:00] <zeeshan> I is based off of geometry
[02:44:26] <zeeshan> c is the distance from the neutral axis to the outermost fibers of the beam
[02:45:02] <zeeshan> m is the moment you're applying, so basically you find out that the higher the I , the less the amount of stress
[02:45:21] <zeeshan> I being second moment of area
[02:45:31] <archivist> but then the beam is connected to structure, screwing with simple calcs
[02:45:46] <toastyde1th> FUCK IT, USE THE MISSLE EQUATIONS FOR EVERYTHING!
[02:45:49] <zeeshan> you model it individually
[02:46:05] <archivist> use FEM :)
[02:46:11] <zeeshan> benefit of linear elasticity!
[02:46:13] <zeeshan> superposition
[02:46:17] <zeeshan> you can break it up into smaller problems
[02:46:31] <zeeshan> fem is good, but its dangerous too
[02:46:49] <zeeshan> if you havent done the theory, you might get weird results because the model was wrong
[02:47:03] <zeeshan> but the person wouldn't realize it's "weird" cause they havent understood the theory
[03:25:45] <Valen> bookseller girl was pretty as always
[03:26:01] <Valen> but I forgot to get doggie treats :-<
[03:26:02] <archivist> heh
[03:26:27] <Valen> wifey calls her my girlfriend ;->
[03:45:20] <Valen> archivist is that a chair base you are doing something weird to in
http://www.collection.archivist.info/showresult.php?prog=1&srcprog=searchv13.php&srcdata=title&Type=PD&Accn_no=9399&subject=26737
[03:45:57] <archivist> yes that carries a fat arse
[03:48:14] <archivist> the centre tube split twice and later one of the wheels failed
[03:50:05] <Valen> nobody makes things well anymore :-<
[03:50:24] <Valen> I have a bed that used angle iron for the side rails
[03:50:33] <archivist> the leather and upper are taking the strain well
[03:50:59] <Valen> thing is they welded it right into the middle of a bit of ~.8mm steel that is the head and foot of the bed
[03:51:11] <Valen> (like 40x15x.8mm)
[03:51:24] <Valen> make that 100x15 rather
[03:51:31] <archivist> .8 paper thin
[03:51:36] <Valen> it is ;->
[03:51:58] <Valen> so when you load up the side rails and they bend down, the welds rip out of the middle of the upright
[03:52:22] <Valen> if they welded it on to the edge of the upright it wouldn't have been a problem
[03:52:42] <Valen> bent the crap out of the side rails too for....reasons
[03:53:11] <Valen> new side rails are 50x25x3mm with a 25x25x1.6mm welded onto it to hold the slats
[09:29:32] <CaptHindsight> did I miss a memo? When did people start expecting that product development should be free? Is this some new "maker" mantra?
[09:31:09] <Tecan> http://rs2img.memecdn.com/creativity-is-key_c_3555447.jpg
[09:31:52] <Rab> CaptHindsight, affirmative.
[09:32:14] <Tecan> CaptHindsight free is always better. and honestly in the linux world you would not be able to produce anything useful without building off of work of others.
[09:32:49] <Tecan> there are so many legal blocades to getting product to market its not even funny
[09:33:02] <Tecan> csa approval is one of the worst
[09:33:19] <ssi> https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CGqW25cWwAAgVx2.jpg:large
[09:33:21] <Rab> Those pencil vases are a neat idea, but I hope they're clear-coated.
[09:33:23] <ssi> like my new toy?
[09:33:45] <Tecan> half million dollars to be able to plug the product into the wall socket or explosion proof stuff for oil and gas
[09:34:20] <_methods> ah nice you got it
[09:34:26] <Tecan> gotta get around the csa stuff by using wall wart power adapters
[09:34:47] <Tecan> nice plane
[09:35:06] <Tecan> ready for stunts
[09:35:09] <ssi> needs a bath
[09:35:12] <Rab> ssi, nice, how old is it? The wheel nacelles seem like some classic styling.
[09:35:21] <ssi> it's not terribly old
[09:35:36] <ssi> it's a homebuilt, and it was finished and certified in 1999
[09:35:37] <Tecan> i want a buckeye parachute
[09:36:33] <ssi> I kinda want a backpack-style powered paraglider
[09:36:55] <Tecan> atleast if the engine cuts you can still make er to the ground safe enough
[09:37:04] <ssi> same with anything else
[09:38:23] <Tecan> a plane like that wouldnt glide to well without stalling
[09:38:48] <Tecan> need a parachute in the tail
[09:38:51] <ssi> uh
[09:38:56] <ssi> have you flown? :P
[09:39:11] <Tecan> got several model planes, but never stalled a real one
[09:39:21] <ssi> they glide just fine
[09:39:57] <Tecan> the as3x mini electric planes are awesome
[09:40:00] <englishman> ssi: awesome
[09:40:26] <englishman> ssi: tomorrow morn is my ppl flight exam :P
[09:40:32] <ssi> nice!
[09:40:39] <ssi> good luck
[09:40:42] <englishman> :)
[09:40:43] <ssi> I hate checkrides
[09:40:47] <ssi> so much anxiety :)
[09:41:11] <englishman> rv6?
[09:41:18] <ssi> yep
[09:41:23] <englishman> so cool.
[09:41:26] <ssi> I have four stupid airplanes now
[09:41:29] <ssi> cause I'm a lunatic
[09:41:33] <Tecan> lol
[09:41:34] <englishman> no kidding
[09:41:49] <Tecan> crop sprayer ?
[09:41:54] <ssi> the RV6, an RV7 that I've been working on for almost ten years, a Pitts S1-SS, and a Cherokee 140
[09:42:13] <Tecan> a local builder here remade the red barron from a kit
[09:42:39] <Tecan> was neat seeing how they cloth cover the wings
[09:43:00] <ssi> yeah the pitts is fabric covered
[09:43:07] <ssi> I'm getting very close to covering the new wings I built
[09:45:25] <englishman> home garage or a hangar
[09:45:53] <Tecan> what do they shrink the cloth with ? cant remember
[09:45:54] <ssi> I started the RV7 in my home garage, but it got moved to a hangar about five years ago
[09:45:59] <ssi> Tecan: with an iron these days
[09:46:11] <ssi> the modern fabric is Dacron (polyester), and it's heat shrinkable
[09:46:17] <Tecan> the old painted method
[09:46:29] <ssi> the old school stuff was cotton or linen fabric, and they'd shrink with water and tautening dope
[09:46:50] <ssi> the modern stuff is WAY better :P
[09:53:00] <Tensaiteki> Just spent the morning debugging my ClassicLadder program, now the tool changer works:
https://youtu.be/yJlhgf6DAek
[09:53:39] <cradek> cool!!
[09:53:49] <cradek> it always puts the tools back in the pocket they came from?
[09:54:41] <_methods> heh cool never seen a toolchanger arm swing out that way
[09:54:43] <cradek> this machine looks familiar - are you in that tech shop in houston?
[09:55:28] <Tecan> ssi, one thing to watch specially on model planes is the wings ripping off during a barrel roll
[09:55:33] <_methods> side mounted umbrella?
[09:55:55] <ssi> Tecan: a proper barrel roll doesn't have much G load :P
[09:56:39] <ssi> yea that is a wacky toolchanger
[09:57:35] <cradek> weird, it pushes the tool down out of the taper and it hangs there in mid air until the hand grabs it
[09:58:15] <cradek> I've never seen anything like that - I wonder how the drawbar works
[09:59:24] <ssi> _methods: do you have a truck&trailer for moving machines?
[09:59:37] <_methods> well it depends
[09:59:43] <_methods> i mean if it's big we get riggers
[09:59:49] <ssi> nah, not too big
[09:59:53] <ssi> want to go buy some robots?
[09:59:57] <_methods> but if it's small stuff we have a 20,000 lb 5th wheel trailer
[10:00:17] <_methods> how many and how much?
[10:00:21] <ssi> http://www.ebay.com/itm/Kuka-Roboter-KR150L-150SP-2-Robot-Arm-No-Controller/271659536669#viTabs_0
[10:00:24] <ssi> they have 10 of them
[10:00:27] <ssi> I wouldn't mind 2
[10:00:32] <ssi> they're 2700lb apiece
[10:00:50] <_methods> yeah man those things are pretty big
[10:00:59] <_methods> hmm only $1k
[10:01:02] <ssi> yeah
[10:01:10] <ssi> it'd be a PERFECT playtoy for a linuxcnc robot
[10:01:13] <_methods> yeah
[10:01:18] <Tensaiteki> yes this is the mill at TX RX labs
[10:01:22] <ssi> they actually have controls and pendants for them
[10:01:28] <ssi> but they want 3x as much for a control as they do for the arm
[10:01:32] <_methods> yeah
[10:01:35] <_methods> that's usually the case
[10:01:43] <ssi> and 90% of the fun for me is building the control
[10:01:44] <_methods> but for a retrofit linuxcnc
[10:01:46] <_methods> yep
[10:02:05] <ssi> I want to set one up with a spindle and carve props
[10:02:09] <_methods> id love to grab one i just dont have room for it
[10:02:10] <ssi> that'd be an awesome 6 axis mill
[10:02:33] <_methods> when cat reman closed here they were going to jsut give me their robots
[10:02:39] <Tensaiteki> The drawbar was one of the biggest problems we had. Took forever to figure out how it worked
[10:02:40] <_methods> none of the other cat plants wanted them
[10:02:43] <ssi> dang :/
[10:02:52] <ssi> I have room for two of these pretty easily
[10:03:05] <cradek> Tensaiteki: awesome, glad to see it going. It was only barely moving when I was there. congrats.
[10:03:07] <ssi> not really room to OPERATE two
[10:04:10] <_methods> yeah i got a trailer and truck i could use the boss might want to charge though for a va to atl trip though hehe
[10:04:25] <Tensaiteki> cradek: now that school is done for the year, I've been working full-time at the Labs getting the powerhawk going and working on convertin the press-brake
[10:04:55] <ssi> lolol
[10:05:10] <ssi> I'll come up with something
[10:05:24] <cradek> Tensaiteki: I sure enjoyed our time there. It's a neat place you folks have.
[10:05:27] <ssi> maybe I'll just break down and buy a rollback like I've been threatening to for years
[10:05:41] <_methods> yeah that would work
[10:05:48] <ssi> I want either a rollback or a flatbed dually diesel truck
[10:05:56] <_methods> if you just want 1 those drop down trailers would be perfect
[10:06:27] <ssi> I just don't have a truck
[10:06:39] <ssi> I have a utility trailer I pull behind my car
[10:06:43] <ssi> but this is just a smidge too much for that
[10:06:49] <ssi> and I'd be worried about topheaviness heheh
[10:06:58] <Tensaiteki> cradek: everyone is welcome back any time. And, for the record, our part of Houston didn't flood.
[10:07:24] <_methods> http://www.fallsway.com/drop-deck-trailers
[10:07:34] <_methods> i need to get one of those
[10:08:05] <ssi> I have a forklift, so I'm less concerned about a drop deck
[10:08:09] <MattyMatt> shame the law doesn't allow electric motors in a trailer
[10:08:21] <_methods> oh yeah i don't have a forklift
[10:08:29] <cradek> Tensaiteki: that's good, I was thinking about you folks when I saw those photos.
[10:09:55] <_methods> yeah those robots are top heavy
[10:11:11] <CaptHindsight> MattyMatt: what's this law about electric motors and trailers?
[10:11:37] <Tensaiteki> cradek: yeah, when Houston was young, they built on the parts that didn't flood, first. There's an advantage to being in the older neighborhoods. The suburbs and highways were built on the flood plains.
[10:11:40] <MattyMatt> any kind of motor, and legally you're a semi aren't you?
[10:11:47] <_methods> i just have a tacoma so i don't think i'll be much help haulin that robot
[10:12:49] <MattyMatt> I know UK law prohibits it, or at least it isn't classed as a trailer anymore
[10:14:30] <CaptHindsight> ssi: are you going to take a look at them in person?
[10:14:45] <ssi> CaptHindsight: I'd like to
[10:14:53] <ssi> you want to meet me over there?: P
[10:15:16] <CaptHindsight> If i get time I might pick up a couple myself
[10:16:02] <ssi> http://atlanta.craigslist.org/wat/cto/5043148658.html
[10:16:02] <CaptHindsight> if they have a forklift you could lay them down in a trailer
[10:16:34] <MattyMatt> bolt 4 together and have them walk home
[10:16:49] <ssi> lololol
[10:16:53] <CaptHindsight> 800 mile extension cord
[10:17:14] <MattyMatt> 2 stroke generator
[10:17:47] <CaptHindsight> tesla battery packs
[10:17:54] <MattyMatt> so you can blame boston dynamics for the trail of destruction
[10:18:40] <CaptHindsight> Google bought them as well
[10:18:58] <MattyMatt> I'll stop being flippant. those sound like seriously worth collecting, if they're free
[10:18:59] <CaptHindsight> Google is buying up lots of robot co's
[10:19:22] <ssi> http://atlanta.craigslist.org/atl/cto/5032977441.html
[10:19:25] <ssi> TRUCKYTRUCKYTRUCK
[10:19:44] <CaptHindsight> that looks good
[10:21:13] <ssi> it's the old IDI motor, not the powerstroke
[10:21:19] <ssi> the IDI was kind of a gutless turd
[10:21:20] <ssi> NA
[10:26:47] <ssi> http://atlanta.craigslist.org/sat/cto/5057752894.html
[10:31:39] <CaptHindsight> planning on keeping it?
[10:32:40] <CaptHindsight> 28mpg at 70 mph sounds good in the country
[10:32:41] <ssi> prolly
[10:32:57] <ssi> I'd prefer a rollback because that's about the only way to move a forklift
[10:33:02] <ssi> but they're far more expensive
[10:33:04] <ssi> and harder to store
[10:33:31] <CaptHindsight> what is top speed on the highways in Atlanta now, theoretically 55, but usually 25? :)
[10:33:54] <ssi> more like 90
[10:33:57] <ssi> depends on the time of day
[10:34:10] <ssi> they actually raised a bunch of the limits inside the perimeter from 55 to 65
[10:34:14] <ssi> and everything outside is 65 or 70
[10:34:30] <CaptHindsight> has congestion gotten better?
[10:34:32] <ssi> atlanta traffic has two modes
[10:34:40] <ssi> bumper to bumper dead stop
[10:34:45] <ssi> and bumper to bumper 90mph
[10:37:06] <CaptHindsight> http://www.amerimoldexpo.com/ anyone going? June 17-18, 2015 • Rosemont, IL
[10:39:44] <_methods> nah
[10:39:51] <_methods> i never even made it to ITS
[10:39:56] <_methods> IMTS
[10:40:11] <_methods> every year i say i'm gonna go
[10:43:27] <CaptHindsight> I usually go when I'm in Chicago
[10:44:38] <ssi> if I get one of those arms
[10:44:42] <ssi> I'm going to have to come up with CAM for it :(
[10:48:17] <_methods> yeah that might be interesting
[10:49:07] <_methods> http://www.inventorcam.com/us/success-stories/special-applications/application-videos/sim-5-axis-on-a-robotic-arm/
[10:49:34] <_methods> i'm suprised they don't have a cage around that
[10:50:10] <ssi> that's the same arm
[10:50:14] <ssi> or very similar
[10:50:25] <_methods> irbcam?
[10:50:32] <_methods> http://www.irbcam.com/
[10:50:44] <CaptHindsight> cages are for wimps or osha compliance
[10:51:05] <_methods> heh
[10:51:16] <_methods> i've seen robot arms do some pretty sketchy stuff
[10:51:33] <_methods> albeit was in a new CV part detection area
[10:51:44] <_methods> where the arm was supposed to be stacking parts by type
[10:51:55] <_methods> it just starting chuckin parts across the shop
[10:51:55] <CaptHindsight> the factory tech don't trust them
[10:52:12] <_methods> good sized bent sheet metal parts lol
[10:52:33] <_methods> the cage got a bit taller after that
[10:52:54] <CaptHindsight> say an encoder has come loose on a joint, the servo might whip the arm several inches until it gets an error and stops
[10:53:21] <_methods> i know for a fact i wouldn't be standing that close to it
[10:53:28] <CaptHindsight> that why that robot arm ride is nuts
[10:53:51] <CaptHindsight> people heads are inches from the floor
[10:53:56] <_methods> yeah
[10:54:17] <CaptHindsight> miss a few counts and "squish"
[10:56:21] <_methods> http://www.motoman.com/datasheets/G-CodeEG.pdf
[10:57:06] <_methods> probably wont' work on a kuka though
[10:57:11] <ssi> yea
[10:59:40] <ssi> so I imagine the servo drives are probably in the control
[10:59:44] <ssi> so I'll need to come up with drives for those motors
[11:00:05] <CaptHindsight> yes
[11:00:22] <CaptHindsight> better watch those Parkers :)
[11:00:44] <ssi> I have parkers comin out my ass, but they're all the stupid GV6 drives that can't be controlled directly
[11:01:23] <CaptHindsight> ssi: forget I ever mentioned the robots
[11:01:28] <ssi> ?
[11:01:38] <CaptHindsight> tempting as they are, they are a project
[11:01:43] <ssi> I love projects haha
[11:01:47] <CaptHindsight> heh
[11:01:55] <ssi> what's your concern?
[11:12:19] <ssi> http://www.ebay.com/itm/LOT-781PCS-AIR-TOOLS-AIRCRAFT-DOTCO-DRILLS-HAMMERS-RIVET-SHAVERS-NUT-RUNNERS-/351381428885?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item51cff71a95
[11:12:22] <ssi> need a drill?
[11:13:28] <archivist> pecentage broken....
[11:13:58] <CaptHindsight> ssi: i was just thinking that at some point those drives are just an amp and power supply. Could they be hacked to be used just as servo amps?
[11:14:07] <ssi> maybe
[11:14:18] <ssi> I tried to do some research along those lines and didn't have much luck
[11:14:25] <archivist> is there a full manual?
[11:14:26] <CaptHindsight> oh well
[11:14:30] <ssi> part of the reason I wanted to use those drives was because they do sinusoidal commutation
[11:14:39] <CaptHindsight> don't think so they are by Parker
[11:14:43] <ssi> which is a bit more complex than just an amp and a power supply
[11:15:29] <ssi> it blows my mind that they take a simple servo drive, the GV, and add crazy computer to it to make the GV6, but disable the simple control
[11:15:42] <skunkworks> for most things trapazoidle is just fine
[11:16:13] <ssi> skunkworks: well in my particular case I wanted sinusoidal drive because I don't have hall effects in my VMC's servos, I have fanuc 4-bit commutation
[11:16:31] <ssi> and so I was gonna have to do some work to fake the 6 state hall signals, and it doesn't align exactly so it's sorta lumpy
[11:17:02] <ssi> with a sinusoidal drive, it'd only be lumpy for one rev, then it'd smooth out when the encoder references and the drive switches over to sinusoidal commutation
[11:18:35] <skunkworks> pico systems makes a converter box i think fanuc to trap...
[11:18:41] <ssi> yes, I'm aware
[11:18:44] <ssi> and I flat refuse to buy it
[11:18:54] <skunkworks> heh
[11:19:22] <skunkworks> I also think hal would do it
[11:19:38] <ssi> yeah there's a hal component for it
[11:20:00] <ssi> I think what I'm actually going to do is buy an 8i20 and see how well that works as a drive, and do the commutation in hal
[11:20:19] <ssi> then I can use all the BE25A20 drives I have for my robut
[11:20:20] <ssi> :D
[11:20:37] <ssi> and the parkers can remain paperweights
[11:23:57] <skunkworks> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l-MNy6-QanI
[11:25:38] <ssi> cool
[11:25:46] <ssi> I'm gonna burn a PILE of IO to do that
[11:31:28] <CaptHindsight> ssi: how fast can the position info for the parker drives be changed? I was just thinking about a repetitive application where they would get new positions every few seconds and they could pause while getting them
[11:32:10] <CaptHindsight> if you recall off the top of your head, no need to dig into the specs
[12:19:12] <ssi> CaptHindsight: I dunno about the speed... my big concern was synchronized motion between joints
[12:36:01] <ssi> hrm
[12:44:14] <ssi> pcw_home: can you give me a hand selecting an IO daughterboard?
[12:45:40] <pcw_home> sure
[12:46:16] <ssi> I have a 5i25/7i77 kit for running this VMC, and I still haven't had time to build external commutation converters for the fanuc servos
[12:46:24] <ssi> I'm thinking I should just use the bldc component to do that in software
[12:46:34] <ssi> but it's gonna take a bunch of IO...
[12:46:49] <ssi> I'm assuming those fanuc commutation tracks output like an encoder, which I guess is 5V ttl basically
[12:47:19] <pcw_home> the drives need the Hall signals?
[12:47:32] <ssi> yes, if I use the AMC drives I have, they need hall signals
[12:47:48] <ssi> the other option is to get 8i20s, and then I guess I'd need a 7i74 or something so I can feed each drive serial
[12:48:24] <pcw_home> yeah or maybe a 7I85 instead of the 7I77
[12:48:40] <ssi> ooh that's not a bad idea
[12:48:56] <ssi> does it have the 10V analog servo outs?
[12:49:07] <ssi> or can that all be done over 422 with the 8i20
[12:50:03] <pcw_home> Oh I forgot the AMCs need analog
[12:50:19] <ssi> well I only need the multichannel 422 if I ditch the amc and go 8i20
[12:50:50] <zeeshan> gimme amc drives
[12:50:51] <zeeshan> free
[12:50:52] <zeeshan> ty!
[12:50:53] <ssi> I just need to make sure that I end up with everything I need to run three of these servos plus a bunch of extra IO for everything else the machine needs
[12:51:27] <ssi> I was thinking about ordering a single 8i20 and trying to get it running on the spare sserial port on the 7i77.... is that feasible?
[12:51:33] <ssi> just to proof of concept the setup
[12:51:34] <pcw_home> Yeah so 7i77 for AMC, though you may still be better doing the Hall conversion in a FPGA
[12:51:53] <pcw_home> sure you can run 1 8I20 from the 7I77
[12:52:03] <ssi> with 8i20 and bldc component, will it effectively do sinusoidal commutation?
[12:52:10] <pcw_home> yes
[12:52:41] <pcw_home> you may learn more about BLDC motors that you want to though...
[12:52:49] <ssi> lol I've already learned more than I want to
[12:52:55] <ssi> I had a working commutation converter in a cpld
[12:53:07] <ssi> it just wasn't good because I didn't have a clock to use the encoder lines for sinusoidal
[12:53:50] <ssi> my only concern about the 8i20 is the cost
[12:54:33] <ssi> 7i85 is inexpensive though, and I can use the 7i77 I have for another project
[12:55:55] <ssi> I'd need a separate gpio board if I went to 7i85 though
[12:56:49] <pcw_home> Hmm I wonder if i could cobble up a hall generator in a 7I90 (use hall state, then first hall edge, then mod encoder count)
[12:57:14] <pcw_home> s/hall/fanuc/
[12:57:32] <ssi> shouldn't be hard
[12:58:32] <ssi> is there something like the 7i90 with terminal blocks instead of IDC headers?
[13:00:52] <pcw_home> No but one with those .1" spring terminals might not be a bad idea
[13:01:06] <ssi> hm maybe I'll order a 7i90, a breakout/iso card for it, and an 8i20
[13:01:08] <ssi> and just experiment
[13:01:27] <ssi> if I can make it work with the 7i90 doing commutation conversion in fpga, and the amc drives, that'd be a good option
[13:01:31] <zeeshan> has anyone used an electronic air pressure regulator?
[13:01:35] <ssi> since the amc drives are already mounted and they have their own power supplies
[13:01:57] <zeeshan> it takes a 4-20mA signal and outputs a proportional pressure output?
[13:02:41] <ssi> 7i42TA out of stock :(
[13:02:49] <pcw_home> a robust adapter would use the fanuc state change as a reference then extrapolate based on encoder counts
[13:03:09] <pcw_home> There are in stock but maybe not on the store yet
[13:03:13] <ssi> ah ok
[13:03:26] <pcw_home> just got more last week
[13:03:26] <ssi> is that an appropriate breakout for what I'm trying to do?
[13:04:42] <pcw_home> probably (TTL but protection from mistakes)
[13:05:07] <ssi> TTL is adequate for the hall state outputs, isn't it?
[13:05:14] <ssi> it's been 8 months since I messed with this stuff :(
[13:05:55] <_methods> this one for you ssi
[13:05:58] <_methods> http://arstechnica.com/apple/2015/06/new-model-two-year-old-processor-the-2015-15-inch-retina-macbook-pro-reviewed
[13:06:01] <_methods> lol
[13:07:29] <ssi> https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CGrIDqeWoAAttXf.jpg:large
[13:07:43] <ssi> my handwriting is awful :P
[13:07:51] <_methods> i thought you were sending me a dick pic
[13:07:58] <_methods> hahah
[13:08:16] <_methods> after the apple link
[13:08:24] <ssi> oh I hadn't even looked at it yet
[13:08:24] <zeeshan> whats that extra signal from 7i42
[13:08:25] <ssi> looking now
[13:08:26] <zeeshan> to fanuc
[13:08:38] <ssi> zeeshan: 4 bit fanuc state in, hall state out
[13:08:52] <zeeshan> what does it use that for
[13:09:01] <ssi> that's the commutation conversion
[13:09:23] <ssi> pcw_home: would I need to split the encoder signal and feed both the 7i77 AND the 7i90, or can the 7i90 get the encoder data over sserial from hm2
[13:09:26] <zeeshan> so that tells the fanuc drive the current position
[13:09:28] <zeeshan> of the motor?
[13:09:32] <zeeshan> in layman terms
[13:09:35] <ssi> zeeshan: yes
[13:10:13] <ssi> pcw_home: I guess I'd need a custom hm2 driver for the 7i90 firmware that exposes input pins to hook up encoder signals from hal
[13:20:04] <_methods> https://edge.org/conversation/neil_gershenfeld-digital-reality
[13:20:12] <_methods> good read if anyone is interested
[13:22:12] <archivist> methinks he would struggle with hand crafts that still exist :)
[13:22:29] <archivist> and that get re invented
[13:22:33] <ssi> have you guys seen the Σn = -1/12 proof that people have been talking about?
[13:22:38] <ssi> I dunno why this article made me think of it :P
[13:22:55] <_methods> no havne't seen that
[13:23:27] <ssi> what's Σn from n=1 to n=infinity?
[13:23:40] <ssi> in other words the sum of the sequence 1, 2, 3, 4, 5... infinity
[13:23:41] <_methods> -1/12
[13:23:42] <_methods> lol
[13:23:56] <ssi> intuitively it's infinity
[13:23:59] <ssi> but apparently it's -1/12
[13:25:23] <ssi> pcw_home: I'm ordering an 8i20, a 7i90, and a 7i42TA now. Hopefully I can cobble something up that'll work with all these parts :D
[13:25:35] <zeeshan> dont troll us ssi
[13:25:52] <zeeshan> the sum if natural numbers isn't -1/12 it diverges to infinity :P
[13:26:03] <ssi> pcw_home: although it seems like the store shopping cart won't let me place an order with an out of stock part :/
[13:26:09] <ssi> zeeshan: that's what I said
[13:26:43] <ssi> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1_%2B_2_%2B_3_%2B_4_%2B_⋯
[13:27:07] <ssi> horrible link
[13:27:07] <ssi> haha
[13:27:14] <zeeshan> youre talking about the ramaujan summation
[13:27:14] <_methods> Maybe 20 percent of the time 3D printing is best. 3D printing isn't a revolution; it's decades old. It's a little bit like microwave ovens in the fifties
[13:27:21] <_methods> lol
[13:27:33] <ssi> yes
[13:27:34] <_methods> all those 3d printer tards need to read that
[13:27:41] <_methods> and take it to heart
[13:33:08] <ssi> Now if you run a shop like mine at CBA where we have one of every kind of computer-controlled manufacturing machine, there's maybe twenty processes that can control a computer to make something: cut with lasers, supersonic jets of water, EDM with wires, machining, plasmas, fusing, bonding. For all the attention to 3D printing, we might use 3D printers 20 percent of the time. The other 80 percent of the time other machines are faster, make higher perform
[13:33:15] <ssi> exactly
[13:33:19] <_methods> yep
[13:33:23] <_methods> he's the man
[13:33:51] <ssi> and I'm living proof that your average diy enthusiast can have a large chunk of the capability of a cnc shop
[13:34:19] <_methods> well i think gershenfelds aim is beyond conventional manufacturing
[13:34:22] <_methods> and always has been
[13:35:05] <_methods> but he really did start this whole "maker" movement up with his fab labs
[13:36:08] <ssi> bah I used to have a spare 7i42TA on hand
[13:36:13] <ssi> but I think that got lost in the shuffle
[13:37:09] <zeeshan> i got a q for you guys
[13:37:18] <zeeshan> i want a cheap standalone system to operate my garage door opener
[13:37:53] <zeeshan> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8B3xSZi7QoI
[13:37:55] <zeeshan> this is my old setup
[13:37:58] <archivist> use a spare hand
[13:38:19] <zeeshan> i wanna replace it with maybe a bbb or rp2 controller
[13:38:30] <zeeshan> it needs to take 2 sensor inputs
[13:38:42] <zeeshan> 1 encoder
[13:39:17] <zeeshan> and drive a motor (maybe a stepper)
[13:43:56] <Jymmm> Nitrogen tack exchange.... HAZMAT FEE?! WTF
[13:44:22] <zeeshan> Jymmm: its retarded
[13:44:31] <zeeshan> i was buying some 309l filler
[13:44:36] <zeeshan> it cost 4.99 hazmat fee
[13:44:36] <zeeshan> wtf?
[13:44:53] <ssi> wtf
[13:44:57] <Jymmm> It's NITROGEN, you know the shit you're breathign RIGHT NOW?!?!?!
[13:45:25] <archivist> pressure vessel
[13:45:39] <Jymmm> eh
[13:45:43] <Jymmm> I guess
[13:45:50] <archivist> knock the top off, try see how safe that is
[13:45:51] <Jymmm> it's only 2000 PSI
[13:46:09] <Jymmm> Well, dont do that!
[13:46:14] <ssi> don't kid yourself
[13:46:20] <_methods> Start with education. I love the maker movement and I also get irritated by the maker movement for the failure in mentoring. At something like a Maker Faire, there's hall after hall of repeated reinventions of bad 3D printers and there isn't an easy process to take people from easy to hard.
[13:46:26] <_methods> buwhahahhahahahah
[13:46:31] <ssi> we were just talking the other day about a guy that got killed filling a learjet tire with nitrogen cause the guy running the bottle applied 2000psi all at once
[13:49:52] <JT-Shop> self removal from the gene pool
[13:50:08] <zeeshan> rofl
[13:50:08] <zeeshan> so mean
[13:50:17] <zeeshan> =]
[13:50:18] <JT-Shop> or was there one with the bottle and one at the tire?
[13:50:19] <_methods> you have to be smarter than the equipment you operate lol
[13:50:23] <ssi> JT-Shop: two guys
[13:50:33] <ssi> and that's not mean, that's neglectful manslaughter
[13:50:35] <JT-Shop> ouch
[13:52:06] <archivist> its only hot water in a steam boiler, until it breaks then you get an explosive flash to steam
[13:53:00] <zeeshan> http://i.imgur.com/urYCtja.jpg
[13:53:02] <zeeshan> today's mission:
[13:53:08] <zeeshan> cut holes in the main log
[13:53:29] <zeeshan> last time i used plasma cuter, but had to clean up the edges with a die grinder cause i have no nitrogen for it
[13:53:38] <zeeshan> im thinking this time circular interpolation on the mill? :D
[13:55:21] <ssi> you can get clean edges from plasma if you get your height/speed/current correct
[13:55:28] <zeeshan> no no
[13:55:29] <ssi> it's hard to do by hand
[13:55:30] <zeeshan> thats not what i mean
[13:55:36] <ssi> the HAZ is still plenty weldable
[13:55:38] <ssi> it's just hard to cut heh
[13:55:39] <zeeshan> im using air to blast
[13:55:50] <zeeshan> so it rusts immediatelly the cutting edge
[13:55:52] <zeeshan> when you go to tig it
[13:55:54] <zeeshan> it welds like asshole
[13:56:03] <zeeshan> (if you dont clean it)
[13:56:09] <ssi> air plasma makes a perfectly weldable edge if it's done right
[13:56:11] <ssi> try using dry air
[13:56:18] <zeeshan> i have dry air
[13:56:24] <ssi> lie
[13:56:26] <ssi> :D
[13:56:27] <zeeshan> truth
[13:56:33] <zeeshan> thats the main reason i got the dryer
[13:56:38] <zeeshan> secondary was sand blaster
[13:56:46] <ssi> one of my dryers isn't drying :(
[13:56:47] <zeeshan> (which i got rid of)
[13:56:55] <zeeshan> why nawt
[13:56:58] <ssi> I dunno
[13:57:21] <JT-Shop> zeeshan, how thick is the metal
[13:57:46] <zeeshan> ~.145"
[13:59:07] <JT-Shop> so around 100IPM, can your mill do that?
[13:59:17] <zeeshan> ya
[13:59:23] <zeeshan> 100 ipm for what though
[13:59:23] <zeeshan> lol
[13:59:29] <zeeshan> plasma?
[13:59:37] <zeeshan> i aint plasming on the cnc mill lol!
[13:59:40] <ssi> hahahah
[13:59:43] <zeeshan> hahaha
[13:59:59] <JT-Shop> plasma cutting .145 steel
[14:00:24] <JT-Shop> oh your only thinking of doing it lol
[14:01:47] <ssi> It doesn't replace mass manufacturing but mass manufacturing becomes the least interesting stuff where everybody needs the same thing. Instead, what you open up is all these tiers that weren't viable before.
[14:01:54] <_methods> yep
[14:01:56] * JT-Shop heads to town... to find the fixings for carpaccio
[14:01:56] <ssi> his note about personal fabrication is really true
[14:04:24] <ssi> _methods: did you see this morning that I got the new RV?
[14:04:31] <_methods> yeah
[14:04:40] <_methods> is it ready to fly?
[14:04:54] <ssi> the cowl is off at the moment getting glasswork and paint
[14:04:56] <ssi> it's very nearly done
[14:05:07] <ssi> lower cowl is painted and ready to hang, the upper needs another pinhole coat, sanding, and paint
[14:05:14] <ssi> the white is already shot and masked on the upper
[14:05:15] <_methods> yeah i saw the cowl was off wasn't sure what you had going on
[14:05:24] <ssi> for some reason the guy doing the paint likes to only prep the section he's gonna paint :P
[14:05:34] <_methods> heheh
[14:05:39] <_methods> to be fair surface prep sux
[14:06:05] <ssi> yeah I know
[14:06:27] <ssi> it's just weird because he's gotta skim the pinholes full and sand it all, with finished paint under mask
[14:06:32] <ssi> seems dangerous
[14:06:53] <ssi> also, the paint they're using is the same as the paint they used on the wings when they rebuilt them
[14:06:57] <ssi> but it doesn't match the fuselage
[14:07:07] <ssi> which'll be very obvious on the cowl to fuselage transition :(
[14:07:07] <_methods> exact same can?
[14:07:12] <ssi> yeah
[14:07:25] <ssi> the wings were painted in january I think
[14:07:26] <_methods> well if they didn't mix it good
[14:07:34] <ssi> it's not a paint issue, it's a color match issue
[14:07:41] <ssi> they bought a cream when they did the wings, but the fuselage is white
[14:07:46] <_methods> hmm
[14:07:55] <ssi> it's not obvious between the wings and fuse, but it'll be very obvious on the cowl
[14:08:26] <ssi> whatever... it's a cheap knockaround RV for me
[14:08:28] <ssi> not a show plane
[14:08:38] <_methods> lol
[14:08:43] <_methods> cheap knock around plane
[14:08:59] <_methods> i feel the same way about my POS lamborghini
[14:09:26] <ssi> :)
[14:09:37] <ssi> my old boss had a beater porsche
[14:09:42] <ssi> it was only 650hp
[14:09:48] <_methods> hehe
[14:10:06] <ssi> for when he didn't want to drive his aventador or his carrera gt, or his gt3, or his murcielago, or his 458
[14:10:07] <zeeshan> dont talk about cars :[
[14:10:07] <_methods> i have a wheel barrow
[14:10:19] <zeeshan> it reminds me to finish mine
[14:10:21] <zeeshan> and stresses me out!
[14:10:22] <ssi> or his rhinolined H1
[14:10:29] <ssi> or his fucking 5 ton 10x10
[14:10:39] <ssi> he's worse about cars than I am about airplanes
[14:10:59] <_methods> 10x10?
[14:10:59] <ssi> https://scontent-atl1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xap1/v/t1.0-9/1904206_10201655274318814_734001653_n.jpg?oh=eec0002ba8e3cce0aec698300465cf5e&oe=55FF0A82
[14:11:06] <ssi> https://scontent-atl1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xaf1/t31.0-8/1276502_10200804537050914_1115683286_o.jpg
[14:11:14] <ssi> dunno if those links'll work
[14:11:22] <_methods> ah nice
[14:11:24] <ssi> https://scontent-atl1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xfp1/v/t1.0-9/215517_1018248211632_6947_n.jpg?oh=f92baf97b2c0e5926732d601ea642872&oe=55FC7C26
[14:11:28] <ssi> https://scontent-atl1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xpf1/v/t1.0-9/206238_1018245811572_4302_n.jpg?oh=50a7105a48a94c387616cee1d19dc713&oe=5601EE08
[14:11:33] <zeeshan> i like the porsche
[14:11:41] <zeeshan> always hated how lambos looked
[14:12:06] <ssi> the carrera gt was my favorite of what he had
[14:12:14] <ssi> https://scontent-atl1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xfp1/v/t1.0-9/11011294_10204010349154213_7468210812953995061_n.jpg?oh=25638c23d2457f33979d75a7acb4fc2a&oe=5600D73F
[14:12:18] <ssi> there's the 5 ton and the H1
[14:12:18] <ssi> heh
[14:12:24] <zeeshan> lol
[14:12:26] <zeeshan> wtfd
[14:12:29] <ssi> https://scontent-atl1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xpf1/v/t1.0-9/11022561_10203968043616601_1249462007200194681_n.jpg?oh=e24677f080daec8ceff6f916fdbf5ec3&oe=55F7647D
[14:12:38] <ssi> his wife bought him the 5 ton for valentines day :P
[14:12:43] <_methods> oh lol he's got and old deuce and a half
[14:12:57] <ssi> https://scontent-atl1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xfa1/v/t1.0-9/10687197_10203120993520878_7747172655527553688_n.jpg?oh=d043e09bc201ee0852e93766945cc407&oe=55F66DE2
[14:13:03] <ssi> it's not a deuce and a half I don't think
[14:13:05] <ssi> pretty sure it's the 5t
[14:13:28] <_methods> hehe i drove 5 of them down to mexico one time
[14:13:38] <_methods> picked em up from DRMO for like $500/each
[14:13:47] <ssi> M925
[14:13:53] <_methods> the colombians paid $2k/each
[14:13:59] <ssi> lol nice
[14:15:15] <_methods> pretty sure i didn't help the war on drugs
[14:15:20] <ssi> haha
[14:16:11] <_methods> that was around the time the army starting using the FMTV's
[14:16:36] <_methods> https://oshkoshdefense.com/vehicles/fmtv/
[14:17:56] <_methods> you had to do something reallllly retarded to get the old 5 tons and 2.5t stuck
[14:18:05] <_methods> but the fmtv's would get stuck on a curb
[14:18:06] <_methods> lol
[14:18:15] <ssi> lol
[14:31:31] <furrywolf> that's why you make sure your deuce has the pto winch, so even if you do get stuck, you can get out.
[14:32:27] <furrywolf> I need to pick up a deuce or a 5t one of these days.
[14:34:16] <jtektool> I forgot to ask anyone here but I had a servo amp servo dynamics sdf 1525 -12. it went up for auction on ebay fo $.99
[14:34:43] <jtektool> http://www.ebay.com/itm/Servo-Dynamics-Corp-AW-1410-SDF-1525-12-Anilam-Crusader-M-Analog-Servo-Amp-/291483008304?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item43ddbdbd30
[15:13:13] <furrywolf> grrr. I'm trying to get the accessory pulley off on my subaru, but can't break it free. I've discovered that around 400ftlbs, my clutch slips. bolt still not budging.
[15:13:35] <furrywolf> to get the air wrench on it, I'd need to pull the radiator, fans, and grille...
[15:13:51] <XXCoder> heat it?
[15:14:29] <furrywolf> that's not easy, nor good for surrounding parts.
[15:15:20] <XXCoder> it would be easier to chill bolt yeah
[15:15:23] <furrywolf> heh, google suggests wedging the breaker bar on something and cranking the starter. lol
[15:15:24] <XXCoder> or nut
[15:16:02] <ssi> long breaker bar and a heavy hammer
[15:16:04] <ssi> manual impact
[15:16:11] <roycroft> no ginormous impact wrench?
[15:16:34] <furrywolf> roycroft: <furrywolf> to get the air wrench on it, I'd need to pull the radiator, fans, and grille...
[15:16:38] <roycroft> oh
[15:16:42] <furrywolf> ssi: tried that
[15:16:48] <roycroft> i have a tiny scroll buffer
[15:16:56] <XXCoder> heh I remember this calculus teacher - he had this problem how to calculute force with very long bar and wrench
[15:17:01] <furrywolf> five lines is definitely tiny. :)
[15:17:06] <XXCoder> it was in millions newtons
[15:17:08] <roycroft> weld a pipe to a box wrench and give it a good jerk or two
[15:17:24] <XXCoder> then he revealed it really happened with his friend - nut shattered
[15:17:36] <roycroft> it would be five lines if this were the only channel i was on
[15:17:50] <XXCoder> it was tire semi truck nut so he was stuck till company truck arrived to fix it lol
[15:17:55] <furrywolf> roycroft: a good jerk isn't working. I've found that around 400ftlbs I slip my clutch. no easy way to lock the engine...
[15:18:20] <roycroft> would bumping the starter even work then?
[15:18:28] <roycroft> might that not just cause your clutch to slip?
[15:18:42] <XXCoder> roycroft: possibly higher impact force
[15:18:58] <furrywolf> roycroft: starter is on the engine side of the clutch
[15:19:05] <roycroft> oh, yeah
[15:19:21] <roycroft> so you need to lock your flywheel
[15:19:33] <ssi> did you soak the bolt in kroil?
[15:19:34] <XXCoder> furrywolf: no way to add pipe in such way it extends your tool?
[15:19:34] <furrywolf> other suggestions found googling are strap and chain wrenches around the pulleys
[15:19:40] <furrywolf> ssi: no
[15:19:43] <ssi> I'd start there
[15:19:59] <furrywolf> XXCoder: extending my tool won't help when the problem is the crank is turning. it'll just let me turn it easier.
[15:20:10] <XXCoder> lol yeah
[15:20:28] <XXCoder> hmm
[15:20:28] <furrywolf> I like the starter motor idea. brb, breaking a craftsman socket. :P
[15:21:01] <XXCoder> lifetime warranty
[15:29:54] <furrywolf> that worked way, way too well.
[15:30:30] <furrywolf> I spent a half hour dicking with it, grunting hard, etc, when all it needed was a 1/8 second click of the key.
[15:30:51] <XXCoder> heh your car assisted in its repair
[15:36:49] <ssi> hahaha
[15:47:02] <MrSunshine> hmm .. got huge vibrations going on in the machine i havent had before :/
[15:47:06] <MrSunshine> and dont know where they come from
[15:48:26] <_methods> do you live near a fault line
[15:48:36] <_methods> or a volcano
[15:48:43] <MrSunshine> haha
[15:48:49] <_methods> hehe
[15:48:51] <MrSunshine> no but machine is in a wooden structure
[15:48:52] <_methods> if yes plz run
[15:49:00] <malcom2073> Is the machine *a* wooden structure?
[15:49:04] <MrSunshine> no
[15:49:07] <MrSunshine> its IN a
[15:49:21] <MrSunshine> so its not very stable where it stands =)
[15:49:43] <MrSunshine> tho i got to thinking if the Z axis bearings need some new grease .. havent greased them in a year and a half :P
[15:49:54] <MrSunshine> pits to put grease in tho
[15:51:11] <XXCoder> I would be amazed if someone made engine out of wood and it works and car can go 60 mph
[15:51:30] <XXCoder> (besides impossible to make in wood sparkj plugs, wires so on)
[15:58:26] <MrSunshine> sucks .. i want to upgrade the machine but its frekkin expensive to do :/
[15:58:35] <MrSunshine> all the money i earn has to go for food :/
[15:59:34] <MrSunshine> hoping to sell these this weekend tho =)
https://scontent-ams2-1.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xpf1/v/t1.0-9/1779883_758619627591418_1174802948683319782_n.jpg?oh=3a079805269ae829c2f62f258b22d2e4&oe=5608C730 and
https://scontent-ams2-1.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xtf1/v/t1.0-9/11391215_757990834320964_1414398967499682475_n.jpg?oh=abe5a22d2e62f9a5dbbfe33c58694883&oe=55FB7D2E =)
[15:59:39] <MrSunshine> and some other signs ive made =)
[15:59:49] <XXCoder> Those is nice
[16:00:59] <MrSunshine> and hopefully get some orders on signs or something ... gonna give 40% off for the weekend and all signs ordered 14 days after =)
[16:01:06] <MrSunshine> to try and boost awareness and stuff =)
[16:11:00] <JT-Shop> nice sign
[16:19:16] <furrywolf> overall, this project wasn't that bad. all of the annoyances was due to my doing it with the radiator still in, with ~3" of clearance between the end of the crank and the radiator, but it still wasn't too bad.
[16:19:48] <furrywolf> still one of the easiest front main seals I've done.
[16:20:17] <furrywolf> I used the crank bolt to install the new seal, as there wasn't enough room for any significant impact to drive it. (I tried)
[16:20:50] <furrywolf> a roll of electrical tape and a large washer. :)
[16:22:22] <furrywolf> next task is to soak the engine and hood in a couple cans of engine brite... in the last week since the seal started leaking, I went from a nice clean engine bay, to everything covered in fresh motor oil.
[16:27:29] <Deejay> gn8
[16:31:58] <MrSunshine> XXCode, JT-Shop thanks =)
[21:30:27] <Jymmm> I have one of these, but rusty. Whats a good way to clean it up enough to (protective) paint?
http://images.craigslist.org/00n0n_kAKPKYkMVQu_600x450.jpg
[21:31:07] <Jymmm> And a way to paint it? lots of spray cans?
[21:31:12] <Jymmm> and with what?
[21:32:01] <CaptHindsight> outdoor coatings do not include epoxies
[21:32:10] <CaptHindsight> try a urethane
[21:32:35] <Jymmm> PU Paint?
[21:32:38] <CaptHindsight> for the rust clean, as much as you can and then use a conversion coating
[21:33:02] <Jymmm> conversion?
[21:33:17] <CaptHindsight> http://www.theruststore.com/Rust-Converter-Quart-P41.aspx?gclid=CIGzg-u898UCFQioaQodNx0AFw or similar
[21:33:37] <furrywolf> those cost, what, $49.99? by the time you clean and paint it, you could buy a second, shiny one.
[21:34:06] <Jymmm> furrywolf: Where? I got mine off craigslist
[21:34:30] <CaptHindsight> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rust_converter
[21:34:54] <Jymmm> http://www.homedepot.com/p/Unbranded-Tricam-Industries-3-cu-ft-Steel-Garden-Yard-Cart-SC100D2/202353039
[21:35:01] <Jymmm> Eh $90
[21:35:12] <furrywolf> I have found rust "conversion" products to be worthless. they don't convert the rust in any useful fashion, instead mostly just covering it... and as soon as it cracks, it starts rusting even worse than before.
[21:35:16] <CaptHindsight> https://www.menards.com/main/paint/solvents-cleaners-removers/strippers-removers/rustex-rust-converter-32oz/p-2203386.htm
[21:36:11] <Jymmm> It needs new tires ($12 from HF), Guess I can live with the rust =)
[21:36:20] <furrywolf> hrmm, looks like harbor freight doesn't carry them anymore.
[21:36:35] <CaptHindsight> furrywolf: maybe the type you purchased
[21:36:45] <CaptHindsight> the chemistry works
[21:37:47] <Jymmm> A big vat and couple bottle of coca cola
[21:37:56] <furrywolf> no, the chemistry does not. the products harden before being able to affect more than the very surface layer. and even if you had a non-drying liquid, it'd need to go on substantially thicker than the rust it's converting, to give sufficient active ingredients.
[21:38:01] <CaptHindsight> if you can, thats even better
[21:38:15] <furrywolf> I've tried several products, and NONE of them were useful on anything other than the lightest flash of surface rust.
[21:38:21] <CaptHindsight> furrywolf: now you're a chemist?!
[21:38:39] <furrywolf> no, I have actual real-world experience. it trumps advertising claims every time. :P
[21:38:43] <CaptHindsight> Jymmm: you got it
[21:39:01] <CaptHindsight> it's chemistry and user error
[21:39:24] <Jymmm> CaptHindsight: I was kinda serious. I've heard it works, just never tried it myself... would be a cheap experiment
[21:39:53] <furrywolf> the "rustex" you pasted is a phosphoric acid product... they work, if you put them on in damp conditions, on very thin rust. the paint-like products do not work. note using the phosphoric acid ones is an annoying multi-step process.
[21:40:05] <CaptHindsight> Jymmm:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y4yYF8gSHdA or try this
[21:40:53] <furrywolf> ospho is the most common brand of such products here
[21:42:05] <furrywolf> naval jelly works on thicker rust than the liquid products, but is even less pleasant to use... and none of them will work on anything but thin rust.
[21:42:59] <CaptHindsight> Jymmm: hasta
[21:43:18] <Jymmm> CaptHindsight: hasta
[21:43:36] <furrywolf> the worst I've used, by far, was the duplicolor rust conversion paint... even when you got it to stay on the rust (instead of beading!), it really just coated it.
[21:45:52] <furrywolf> por15 at least is honest, and states it encapsulates the rust, with no magic conversion claims.
[21:47:16] <tjtr33> Jymmm, POR 15 the trial size goes a long way. its shiny black and works
[21:48:17] <furrywolf> here on the rainforst coast, EVERYTHING rusts... it's quite annoying. heh.
[21:48:22] <tjtr33> http://www.por15.com/
[21:48:41] <furrywolf> cars rust out from the top down, unlike areas with salted roads... you'll have a car with a perfect floorpan right until the roof falls off.
[21:49:39] <Jymmm> tjtr33: can't find the trial size
[21:50:07] <furrywolf> electrolysis does work. evaporust does work, and works well, but is impractical for an object that large.
[21:50:15] <tjtr33> Jymmm,
http://www.por15.com/SUPER-STARTER-KIT--Black_p_11.html
[21:50:18] <furrywolf> if you can find an old fiberglass bathtub, you could try electrolysis.
[21:51:15] <tjtr33> really does work, comes with the prep and wash and gloves and dufus sponge brush. if you like shiny black, you're all done.
[21:51:54] <furrywolf> ultrasonic cleaning works for anything you can fit in an ultrasonic cleaner, just very slowly - takes lots of energy to remove rust.
[21:52:02] <tjtr33> i painted a 6"dia 92" tall cast iron pipe with the kit
[21:52:03] <Jymmm> tjtr33: lol, thanks.
[21:52:28] <furrywolf> a larger ultrasonic cleaner is high up on my list of "when I have spare money" items. so nice to just drop a carb or something in mine and it comes out looking like new.
[21:53:14] <Jymmm> plastic trashcan might worl
[21:53:19] <Jymmm> work*
[21:53:39] <furrywolf> if it fits
[21:53:53] <tjtr33> 1$ turkey pan is now soaking a 32 posn Tool chain on back porch
[21:54:03] <Jymmm> Break it down to it's smallest pieces
[21:54:07] <tjtr33> yep
[21:54:23] <Jymmm> Maybe two pallets strapped together a poly sheet for a liner
[21:54:37] <furrywolf> note that electrolysis is a messy, unpleasant undertaking... and you'll need to wire brush before painting. but it takes much less wire brushing than if you were removing the rust.
[21:55:45] <Jymmm> When you start getting to the point of replace cost....
[21:57:28] <furrywolf> electrolysis is very cheap.
[21:57:55] <Jymmm> whats the deal with SOLID 10" tires?
[21:58:06] <furrywolf> about $1 of washing soda...
[21:58:06] <furrywolf> find someone with a sand blaster? :)
[21:58:10] <Jymmm> "no flat"
[21:58:14] <furrywolf> solid tires are heavy and rough-riding, but don't go flat.
[21:58:45] <Jymmm> http://www.harborfreight.com/bigfoot-panel-wagon-69693.html
[21:59:09] <Jymmm> No sides
http://www.harborfreight.com/steel-mesh-deck-wagon-38137.html
[21:59:33] <furrywolf> yeah, they used to sell one identical to the one you pasted. I don't see it anymore.
[21:59:40] <Jymmm> bummer
[22:00:06] <Jymmm> $20 in tires - 20% + can of spray paint
[22:00:18] <furrywolf> does it need tires, or just air, or tubes?
[22:00:31] <Jymmm> rotted
[22:00:36] <Jymmm> cracked
[22:00:57] <furrywolf> badly enough a tube can't fix them? :P
[22:01:37] <Jymmm> where do you find 10" tubes? and cheaper than $5/ea?
[22:02:14] <furrywolf> http://www.harborfreight.com/10-in-inner-tube-with-curved-stem-69532.html
[22:02:47] <furrywolf> but, yeah, for an extra $2/wheel, you'd get shiny tires...
[22:03:21] <Jymmm> bad reviews on the tubes too
[22:03:49] <Jymmm> Hmmm, I wonder if HF sells tire goo?
[22:04:37] <furrywolf> tire goo doesn't work all that well.
[22:04:44] <furrywolf> yes, they do sell it, but for the same price as other stores.
[22:05:09] <furrywolf> it's very hard to get tire goo to do anything to sidewalls
[22:06:59] <Jymmm> I think I need to hit wally world. They has some cheap paints
[22:08:29] <furrywolf> the walmart $2 spraycans need about three times the coats to get the same coverage as the $6 cans...
[22:08:41] <furrywolf> it's all solvent, no paint. lol
[22:09:23] <Jymmm> Here we go... oil based enamel paint
http://www.homedepot.com/p/Rust-Oleum-Stops-Rust-32-oz-Black-Gloss-Protective-Enamel-Paint-7779504/100160860
[22:09:40] <furrywolf> someone I know bought a bunch of cans... "duude, it's only $2 a can!!!". then we found they were useless...
[22:10:38] <Jymmm> OH NO DISCONTINUED (white)
[22:11:00] <furrywolf> ace rust-stop brand is similar and generally cheaper, if you have an ace hardware nearby.
[22:11:04] <Jymmm> Shit, I use that stuff
[22:11:09] <Jymmm> http://www.homedepot.com/p/Rust-Oleum-Professional-Gloss-White-1-Gallon-Oil-Based-Enamel-DISCONTINUED-182770/202041175
[22:15:38] <Jymmm> Ok, Lowes has it still
[22:17:14] <Jymmm> and amazon in colors, but no greens
[22:22:17] <furrywolf> ace will tint their rust-stop to any color you want. other hardware stores might do this as well.
[22:33:58] <Valen> I don't like shiny tyres
[22:34:51] <furrywolf> yay, the neighbors down the road are having yet another loud domestic dispute that involves them wandering up and down the road shouting insults at each other at the top of their lungs.
[22:35:23] * furrywolf has no idea why such people stay together
[22:36:39] <Valen> it never even looks like the sex would be great
[22:36:42] <furrywolf> this is a roughly weekly occourance. sometimes it involves cops and ambulances.
[22:37:03] <Valen> If its in australia then housing and finance could well be a defining factor
[22:37:04] <furrywolf> it apparantly sucks, from some of the insults she's yelled at him in the past. :P
[22:37:27] <Valen> gotta go for a walk or something back later
[22:57:59] <SpeedEvil> I wonder if it's a crime to give people weapons.
[22:58:09] <SpeedEvil> - legal ones
[22:59:57] <furrywolf> in what way?
[22:59:57] <furrywolf> I seem to recall a Radio Shack somewhere giving out free shotguns with purchases...
