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[00:02:32] <furrywolf> bbl, wolfy bedtime
[00:03:15] <XXCoder> nightb furrywolf
[02:21:56] <Deejay> moin
[02:41:03] <XXCoder> ohhhh
http://www.nanobeam.us/
[02:41:09] <XXCoder> time to build microcnc? lol
[02:53:34] <archivist> site fail, I block cross url stuff, none of their images are on their own domain!
[02:58:12] <XXCoder> yeah some sites has billion domains
[02:58:16] <XXCoder> whats up with that
[02:59:38] <archivist> cookie crap and tracking is what I am avoiding
[03:00:35] <XXCoder> yeah
[03:00:42] <XXCoder> anyway its like 8020
[03:00:45] <XXCoder> only much smaller
[04:44:53] <SpeedEvil> XXCoder:
http://www.mmsonline.com/articles/micro-milling-at-12-million-rpm
[04:45:36] <XXCoder> looking
[04:46:20] <archivist> pfft who needs a micro mill
http://gears.archivist.info/gears/IMG_1214_hires.JPG
[04:47:16] <XXCoder> interesting
[04:47:30] <XXCoder> lol yeah saw your work before
[04:47:33] <XXCoder> nice work indeed
[04:47:54] <SpeedEvil> archivist: neat indeed
[04:49:19] <archivist> sometimes you need a solid machine, that little pinion on right was made on
http://www.collection.archivist.info/archive/DJCPD/PD/2003/2003_01_23_Clockworks/P1010018.JPG
[04:51:40] <SpeedEvil> http://www.researchgate.net/profile/John_Ziegert/publication/239925798_An_Ultrahigh_Speed_Spindle_for_Micro-milling/links/543fb6440cf2be1758cf3d90.pdf
[04:53:17] <SpeedEvil> http://ufdc.ufl.edu/UFE0002847/00001/1j - in more detail - thesis on the design of the above machine
[04:54:12] <SpeedEvil> In principle - cutting forces could be ridiculously low.
[04:55:15] <SpeedEvil> .5mm takes 85 grams of cutting force
[04:55:45] <archivist> cut too little and you start rubbing
[04:56:00] <SpeedEvil> yeah
[04:56:17] <SpeedEvil> But that's making 2um thick chips. :)
[04:57:13] <XXCoder> breathe it in for health
[04:59:37] <XXCoder> seriously can you even see those chips?
[05:01:19] <SpeedEvil> they will just be a fine dust
[05:01:41] <XXCoder> lol ok
[05:01:57] <XXCoder> dust so small I bet that would do nasty things to lungs
[05:02:01] <SpeedEvil> maybe very fine short 'fur' if making very fine chips
[05:02:05] <SpeedEvil> It's not _that_ fine.
[08:15:51] <fogl> is sizeof(array) not suported in .comp? When i use it i get >>invalid application of ‘sizeof’ to incomplete type ‘unsigned int[]’<<
[08:35:11] <furrywolf> archivist: wow, that must be one fucking big match. :P
[08:58:55] <Tom_itx> JT-Shop do you remember how you enabled autologin in wheezy?
[09:09:24] <_methods> Tom_itx: did you get it figured out
[09:09:46] <Tom_itx> no not yet
[09:09:57] <_methods> think you need to add "autologin-user = yourlogin name"
[09:10:04] <_methods> to /etc/lightdm/lightdm.conf
[09:10:13] <_methods> no quotes
[09:11:10] <_methods> in teh [SeatDefaults] section
[09:14:32] <Tom_itx> thanks
[09:14:46] <_methods> that work? cause i need to do the same thing lol
[09:14:55] <Tom_itx> i haven't rebooted
[09:15:12] <_methods> i'm too lazy to get up and go do it on mine lol
[09:15:21] <_methods> getting ready to go out for breakfast
[09:15:28] <_methods> or brunch lol
[09:19:03] <_methods> ah cool it works
[09:19:08] <_methods> i just did it real quick
[09:22:56] <Tom_L> Can't find module hm2_5i24 in /usr/realtime-3.4.9-rtai-686-pae/modules/linuxcnc
[09:23:25] <Tom_L> dmesg: loading Mesa HostMot2 driver ver 0.15
[09:23:34] <archivist> furrywolf, nope, a bog standard sized match
[09:23:37] <Tom_L> hm2: unloading
[09:24:40] <pcw_home> not terribly suprising since there is no hm2_5i24 module
[09:25:04] <Tom_L> same with 6i24
[09:25:23] <pcw_home> same answer :-)
[09:25:34] <Tom_itx> don't load the driver?
[09:25:51] <pcw_home> all mesa PCI/PCIE cards use the hm2_pci driver
[09:28:51] <pcw_home> the hm2_7i43 hm2_7i90 stuff is rather a botch, they should both use hm2_epp
[09:29:55] <Tom_itx> will they load using hm2_epp?
[09:30:17] <pcw_home> not yet
[09:31:19] <Tom_itx> seems my bitfile loaded fine once i selected the right chip size
[09:31:29] <pcw_home> hm2_epp shoudl also solve the issue of using the 7I43 with built in firmsware (which does not work now with hm2_7i43)
[09:32:13] <Tom_itx> no reason to use the 7i43 now that the 7i90 is availableish
[09:33:00] <pcw_home> it is on the store now...
[09:33:17] <Tom_itx> as of today?
[09:33:25] <Tom_itx> i checked yesterday..
[09:34:09] <Tom_itx> can i order 3 chips with one?
[09:35:14] <pcw_home> must have forgot to save it, done
[09:35:46] <pcw_home> yeah
[09:39:03] <Tom_itx> ordered
[09:39:26] <Tom_itx> should i email to remind about chips?
[09:42:22] <Tom_itx> _methods that worked... thanks
[11:12:22] <JT-Shop> Tom_itx, I don't have auto login on wheezy
[11:12:49] <Tom_itx> i fixed it
[11:13:00] <JT-Shop> what did you do?
[11:13:43] <Tom_itx> <_methods> think you need to add "autologin-user = yourlogin name"
[11:13:44] <Tom_itx> <_methods> to /etc/lightdm/lightdm.conf
[11:14:01] <Tom_itx> <_methods> in teh [SeatDefaults] section
[11:15:32] <Tom_itx> http://linuxcnc.org/docs/2.7/html/drivers/hostmot2.html#_installing_firmware
[11:15:42] <Tom_itx> it might be handy to list the possible drivers there
[11:15:44] <Tom_itx> for a noob
[11:16:22] <Tom_itx> i'd been using a 7i43 which was an oddball and loaded hm2_7i43 instead of hm2_epp
[11:16:59] <JT-Shop> I'm using Mate
[11:17:40] <Tom_itx> oh
[12:02:14] <furrywolf> http://www.ebay.com/itm/Continuous-Hinge-1-ft-L-2-In-W-CA25020012-/111603560327 piano hinges $1.82/ft with free shipping seems cheap...
[12:06:22] <furrywolf> I wish people would make up their mind on whether the width of a piano hinge is each half or both laid flat...
[12:06:24] <SpeedEvil> For lightly loaded stuff, I guess
[12:06:56] <SpeedEvil> Knuckle Length: 1/2"
[12:07:31] <SpeedEvil> Which is odd.
[12:07:33] <furrywolf> a lot of sellers use stock photos and don't specify which...
[12:07:51] <SpeedEvil> Because I make the width shown 6 knuckles
[12:07:55] <furrywolf> or they'll describe a 1" as "1/2x1/2" too.
[12:08:13] <SpeedEvil> yeah
[12:08:34] <SpeedEvil> You could ask them a question
[12:08:35] <furrywolf> I got some piano hinges at the local hardware store, but I don't think they're sturdy enough to support my enclosure.
[12:08:36] <archivist> idiots will get questions from buyers
[12:08:48] <furrywolf> I'm probably going to stuff 40lbs or something in it, and the hinge just feels flimsy.
[12:09:48] <furrywolf> .09something is the thickest aluminum hinge I can find. I could get steel, but the rest of it is aluminum.
[12:10:52] <furrywolf> I might end up having to drill my own holes... the ones with pre-drilled holes often seem to have stupid patterns, rather than just holes across from each other.
[12:11:37] <archivist> not opposite so the screw heads dont crash
[12:11:41] <furrywolf> http://www.ebay.com/itm/Aluminum-Piano-Hinge-1-x1-x-090-With-Holes-Start-at-8-95-Made-in-USA-/161449636143 is what I'm tempted to get, but it's $19 once you figure shipping for a 2ft one, vs $4 for the one I got from the hardware store...
[12:12:12] <furrywolf> archivist: I know, but for my application, other things will hit before the screws. also, the hardware store ones I got have opposite screws, and I want it all to match. :P
[12:12:29] <archivist> fussy :)
[12:12:39] <furrywolf> and fuzzy! I can be both! :P
[12:13:33] <archivist> sez me currently recasing the 5 axis birds nest
[12:13:45] <furrywolf> "Aluminum Piano Hinge 1 "x1 "x .090" sold in 1' increments up to 6', pin size 1/8", knuckle size 1 1/2"." how does 1" by 1" with 1+1/2" knuckle size work? I can't add those up to a way that I'm picturing its size.
[12:15:54] <furrywolf> do they mean 1.5" _long_ knuckles? that's fucking huge.
[12:16:09] <furrywolf> I guess they do.
[12:16:28] <furrywolf> meaning not very strong...
[12:33:43] <SpeedEvil> Or at that price, you could just go with doorhinges
[12:34:10] <furrywolf> they'd be in the way
[12:34:28] <FinboySlick> CaptHindsight: You use NX, right?
[12:41:49] <CaptHindsight> FinboySlick: jes
[12:42:46] <FinboySlick> CaptHindsight: Ever got it to run on linux?
[12:43:02] <FinboySlick> (the native linux version that is)
[12:43:25] <CaptHindsight> never tried
[12:44:11] <FinboySlick> How would you say the modeller compares to SolidWorks?
[12:44:25] <CaptHindsight> a level above
[12:44:51] <FinboySlick> OK. I'm struggling to get to work, was wondering if it was worth the effort. Apparently yes.
[12:45:41] <FinboySlick> What about the built-in CAM (which I think it has).
[12:45:56] <CaptHindsight> I use NX first for new designs. We have other popular applications as well since customers require it
[12:46:21] <CaptHindsight> yes, and you can customize the post processor as well
[12:46:48] <FinboySlick> Alright, I'll get back to figuring out what's wrong then.
[12:47:45] <FinboySlick> I'm getting an 'undefined symbol' error for a library that it provides (not one of my system libraries) so I'm a bit confused.
[12:51:57] <Tom_itx> pcw_home how long can you get by with on the 50pin ribbon?
[12:53:34] <pcw_home> depends on daughtercard but say 10- 15 feet for most
[12:54:32] <Tom_itx> ok well i don't need near that much
[12:54:59] <pcw_home> probably no longer than 5 feet for something like the 7I49 or 7I65 that has high speed SPI signals
[12:55:18] <pcw_home> (12 MHz or so)
[12:55:31] <Tom_itx> 6i24 / 7i47s
[12:55:44] <pcw_home> 15 feet just fine
[12:56:57] <pcw_home> (step/dir signals are properly terminated at the 7I47/7I47S end of the cable so 15 feet works fine)
[13:00:59] <pcw_home> for SPI you run into skew issues (15 feed adds about 45 ns of skew from clock to RX data)
[13:31:57] <furkanyilmaz11> Is there an anybody to help me about this problem?
http://linuxcnc.org/index.php/english/forum/10-advanced-configuration/29246-joint-following-errorkinematic-hal-included
[13:32:26] <furkanyilmaz11> I am just writing here to be sure about everybody see it... Thank you for understanding
[15:28:44] <t12> https://www.dropbox.com/sc/7j0shd4aoach9dz/AAB4QdaNfkt2zAvIBg1xIFxia
[16:27:16] <Deejay> gn8
[16:46:33] <furrywolf> anyone ever installed a head on an eu3000is genny or an engine similar to the one that's in it? the service manual I have somehow neglects to cover putting the head back on, such as what you're supposed to do with the things that look like shims that came with the head gasket...
[16:48:02] <Jymmm> Ok, where does the gcode go?
http://www.ebay.com/itm/151647526003
[16:48:28] <furrywolf> I have one thick gasket that looks like a briggs gasket, and two paper-thin shims that feel like stainless
[16:48:30] <malcom2073> Silly Jymmm, it goes in your head! :-P
[16:48:47] <malcom2073> You know.... for that price... I'd expect at least a tiny bit more
[16:48:59] <Jymmm> MacGyverX: too many holes there already silly
[16:49:21] <Jymmm> malcom2073: too many holes there already silly
[16:49:35] <SpeedEvil> furrywolf: stupid comment - you've checked on youtube?
[16:49:37] <malcom2073> Well You may need to purchase a slightly more sealed head to use such a machine ;)
[16:49:48] <furrywolf> .05kW spindle. that thing is leeeetle. :P
[16:49:56] <SpeedEvil> furrywolf: Or do you have a genny that needs the head removed?
[16:50:13] <furrywolf> SpeedEvil: I have a genny that came with the head off, and a new head and a gasket set in a bucket.
[16:50:34] <SpeedEvil> yeah - I mean you could inspect the nominal assembly
[16:50:35] <furrywolf> whoops, my bad. .024kW spindle. :P
[16:50:51] <furrywolf> I'm not going to take apart the working one to see how it was put together. :)
[16:51:06] <Jymmm> malcom2073: but its lathe too
http://www.ebay.com/itm/6-In-1-DIY-Tool-Mini-Multipurpose-Machine-Kit-Wood-Metal-Lathe-Milling-Drilling-/281661330515?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item419452d453
[16:51:13] <malcom2073> Haha yeah
[16:51:18] <malcom2073> I've seen those machines before, not in person though
[16:51:28] <SpeedEvil> furrywolf: I was assuming they would all be similar
[16:52:06] <furrywolf> to see the details of the head gaskets, I'd need to pull the head... which I don't want to do just for the hell of it.
[16:53:16] <SpeedEvil> yeah
[16:53:26] <archivist> furrywolf, just possible you shim to set compression ration
[16:53:31] <SpeedEvil> Hmm - might you be able to infer it from the gaps?
[16:53:33] <SpeedEvil> That too
[16:53:35] <archivist> ratio
[16:54:31] <furrywolf> yeah, I'm worried it's some crap like that. which is why it would be really, really nice if the manual mentioned how to put it together, not just "reverse of disaaembly".
[16:55:41] <furrywolf> hrmm, I'm now not sure the gasket kit is actually for this engine... brb, poking at the parts boxes more.
[16:56:56] <zeeshan> http://gyazo.com/cb8f37acf2280ed6df136b212e9e1b31
[16:57:12] <zeeshan> http://i274.photobucket.com/albums/jj272/motorheaddown/Fuel%20pump%20install/y-block.jpg
[16:57:16] <zeeshan> thinking of holding that Y like that
[16:57:22] <zeeshan> comments? :D
[16:57:49] <Jymmm> malcom2073:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/CNC-Router-Rotary-Axis-Kit-A-Axis-4th-Axis-and-Tailstock-for-Engraving-Machine-/161270124346
[16:59:07] <furrywolf> yes, it is for this engine.
[16:59:26] <XXCoder> did you see those thingies at disassembly steps?
[16:59:42] <malcom2073> heh
[17:00:40] <furrywolf> https://www.stens.com/480-395-gasket-set that's the gasket set it came with... note there's two headgasket-like gaskets of the same shape. the silver one is paper thin.
[17:01:04] <furrywolf> I also have a stack of thin ones that seem to be cut from stainless
[17:04:13] <Jymmm> malcom2073:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/10521805-3-Jaw-Self-Centering-Watch-Makers-Jewelry-DIY-Mini-Lathe-Chuck-50mm-/291441552696?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_3&hash=item43db452d38
[17:05:30] <malcom2073> Jymmm: You looking for the cheapest things possible?
[17:05:41] <Jymmm> malcom2073: "It's cute"
[17:06:27] <malcom2073> True, doesn't make it useful though
[17:07:15] <furrywolf> hmm, apparantly there's an almost-identical generator with the gx160 instead of the gx200, and I think they share the same gasket set... mostly.
[17:07:50] * SpeedEvil tries to remember if his generator is a gx160
[17:07:55] <SpeedEvil> it's a someting160
[17:08:27] <SpeedEvil> looks right
[17:08:31] <furrywolf> is it made in china? the china160 is quite popular....
[17:08:38] <SpeedEvil> No.
[17:08:50] <SpeedEvil> It currently is not doing the whole 'starting' thing though
[17:09:15] <furrywolf> that's usually easy enough to fix. fuel, spark, compression...
[17:09:18] <furrywolf> in that order
[17:09:29] <SpeedEvil> furrywolf: yeah - I know
[17:09:56] <SpeedEvil> furrywolf: In principle I know how to fix it. In practice, getting the washing up done is sometimes exhausting at the moment.
[17:10:23] <furrywolf> apparantly the gx200 gasket is .010 thick while the gx160 gasket is .045 thick. I think the paper-thin gaskets are actually stand-alone head gaskets, while the thick ones are for a different engine?
[17:10:49] <SpeedEvil> could they be for altering compression at altitude?
[17:10:56] <SpeedEvil> err - no - that would go the other way
[17:11:02] <furrywolf> no, altitude adjustment is a carb jet
[17:11:42] <furrywolf> I think it's just a case of the gasket set including gaskets for both the gx160 and the gx200, and you're supposed to figure out which one to use...
[17:12:25] <SpeedEvil> :)
[17:12:50] <XXCoder> fun
[17:13:19] <furrywolf> I've found two references that the stock head gasket is only .010 thick
[17:13:37] <furrywolf> sec, grabbing calipers. (they're handy, micrometer is not, and mitu thickness gauge is awol)
[17:14:31] <XXCoder> calipers is fine if you dont care about .001 precision
[17:15:29] <furrywolf> sure 'nuff, the thin ones are .010.
[17:15:40] <furrywolf> that's a thin head gasket!
[17:16:15] <furrywolf> now, should I use the new one in the chinese gasket kit, or one of the stack of used oem ones? the used oem ones look to be much, much higher quality, but they're used, while the chinese one is new...
[17:16:49] <XXCoder> can always change em if chinese one is too bad?
[17:19:35] <FinboySlick> CaptHindsight: Well, I got it semi-working. The motif interface is horrible though.
[17:20:18] <furrywolf> heh, someone needs to work on their unit conversions... "Use a hot plate to heat the head evenly to 150C (330F)" ... "Do not get the head hotter than 150C (300F)"
[17:21:04] <XXCoder> just use nonecludian heater
[17:22:06] <XXCoder> talking about eschers...
http://www.smbc-comics.com/comics/1432394152-20150523.png
[17:46:16] <Guest84710> Hello, newbie here
[17:48:18] <XXCoder> hey
[17:48:20] <furrywolf> first step, /nick somethingotherthannoob :P
[17:48:20] <Guest84710> still reading the documentation, have a Townlabs mini-mill that I will be trying to get running over the next few weeks
[17:48:41] <XXCoder> learn our gang sign
http://www.smbc-comics.com/comics/1432394152-20150523.png ;)
[17:48:55] <XXCoder> nice
[17:50:27] <Guest84710> Nice sign, maybe I can get a chapter jacket with "initiate" on it like a motorcycle gang
[17:50:38] <Guest84710> with a big Tux penguin
[17:50:47] <XXCoder> ;)
[17:52:27] <Guest84710> Well, I'll be quiet now, unless you have some tips other than read the docs and check
http://wiki.linuxcnc.org
[18:26:21] <Jymmm> dont eat yellow snow
[18:29:11] <furrywolf> went to put on the head that came with the genny, that he said was complete... not. it's missing the oil seals and the exhaust valve rotator.
[18:32:49] <furrywolf> hrmm, it does have oil seals, right? the manual doesn't show any. that's... odd.
[18:36:34] <furrywolf> if it doesn't have oil seals, then I'll just grab a valve rotator from the box o' used parts... that's not something that needs to be new, unlike seals.
[18:39:40] <furrywolf> both of the parts heads have oil seals.
[18:39:52] <furrywolf> honda seriously fucking failed with this manual.
[20:14:10] <XXCoder> furrywolf: most manuals are
[20:18:36] <furrywolf> I asked the local honda shop last week why the valves still ticked when I set them to .008 and .006 like the manual said. without any hesitation, he answered "set them to .006 and .004". they don't tick anymore. lol
[20:19:17] <XXCoder> fun
[20:20:05] <furrywolf> I'll need to head back there monday and pick up an exhaust valve rotator, an intake valve stem seal, two valve cover gaskets, and, if they have a used one in a pile, a california-compliant airbox.
[20:20:29] <XXCoder> bodge it
[20:21:07] <furrywolf> if they want more than $5 for the airbox, I'll just drill the extra holes in this one and stuff hoses through them.
[20:21:57] <furrywolf> oh, and the fitting that connects the end of the choke cable to the choke linkage
[21:02:40] <PetefromTn_> Well I spent some time working on the CNC lathe this weekend
[21:02:50] <lffurrywo> yay
[21:02:57] <lffurrywo> I spent some time working on generators. less fun.
[21:03:11] <XXCoder> PetefromTn_: nice
[21:03:17] <PetefromTn_> I have been stripping sheetmetal parts and respraying them for what seems like forever
[21:03:24] <XXCoder> couldn't do anything this weekend, too "crashed"
[21:03:44] <PetefromTn_> which is actually just fine since I am trying to scrape the cash together for the new electronics parts
[21:04:20] <PetefromTn_> Tomorrow I have some customer work to do but I want to get to Home Despot and get some more of the paint I bought for it.
[21:04:55] <lffurrywo> I got two cans of white appliance epoxy for the parts on mine, to match the white machine.
[21:06:02] <PetefromTn_> this one is gonna be smoke grey I think since that is what most of the base is painted and after cleaning it up it looks pretty nice so sticking with it.
[21:06:53] <lffurrywo> I might just skip painting any of the new stuff I added, and leave it bare aluminum.
[21:07:39] <PetefromTn_> Still researching new Servomotors and drives for the beast
[21:09:48] <PetefromTn_> sure wish this shit was not so damn expensive sigh
[21:10:09] <XXCoder> yeah
[21:14:49] <Tom_itx> PetefromTn_ you got lathe work to make it profitable?
[21:15:14] <XXCoder> sigh how do I get tasks list so I can kill a task
[21:16:06] <PetefromTn_> Honestly I have been told by my best customer that he has work for me once it is running so that is debatable. I know that if it was running I could sell some of the parts I used to make with it at least
[21:16:29] <Tom_itx> XXCoder you lookin for: ps -aux
[21:16:54] <PetefromTn_> I also have some items I currently make using the mill vertically that would be much easier on the lathe I think.
[21:17:07] <Tom_itx> XXCoder then kill -9 xxxx
[21:17:13] <Tom_itx> is what i do
[21:17:27] <Tom_itx> in debian anyway
[21:17:27] <XXCoder> okay my bot should time out now
[21:17:52] <XXCoder> or just remote disconnected
[21:18:04] <Tom_itx> what are you trying to do??
[21:18:23] <XXCoder> oh making a good bot for other channel not this
[21:18:26] <Tom_itx> that's how i kill my bot to restart it
[21:18:35] <XXCoder> if wanna see, go to #pircbot
[21:19:03] <Tom_itx> i've seen bots
[21:19:13] <Tom_itx> ^^ that's how i kill mine to restart it
[21:22:24] <Tom_itx> XXCoder what bot are you using or did you write it?
[21:22:37] <XXCoder> using java library, writing it
[21:22:48] <XXCoder> right now it has time and leavenow
[21:36:35] <tswartz> Can someone point me in the right direction? I used the stepconf utility to get my conf made, everything works fine. But how in the world do I make it run with gmoccapy?
[22:52:29] <lffurrywo> meh. is pouring rain.
[23:30:58] <zeeshan> http://i.imgur.com/YNhVk0Z.jpg
[23:31:00] <zeeshan> yea!!
[23:31:02] <zeeshan> its coming together
[23:32:49] <lffurrywo> don't you have a thesis project to be working on? :P
[23:32:58] <zeeshan> F that :p
[23:32:59] <zeeshan> weekends are for car
[23:34:58] <lffurrywo> random question: what are charge cards good for? amex sent me an offer for one, but it seems... useless?
[23:35:17] <zeeshan> points
[23:35:29] <zeeshan> i literally spend say $100 on a cc
[23:35:36] <zeeshan> and then transfer money from debit to it
[23:35:40] <zeeshan> and get points! :D
[23:35:47] <lffurrywo> I get 1-4% cashback with my credit card...
[23:35:56] <lffurrywo> 4% on gas, which is quite nice.
[23:36:20] <lffurrywo> 4% on gas, 2% on travel, food, and some other categories I don't remember, 1% on all other purchases
[23:36:45] <zeeshan> i like points cause they keep collecting
[23:36:53] <zeeshan> and you can get it all back in a lumpsum
[23:37:11] <lffurrywo> I like cash. :P
[23:38:28] <lffurrywo> and the one they sent me an offer for has a $175 annual fee, which it would take a lot of rewards to make up for.
[23:40:02] <zeeshan> f that
[23:40:06] <zeeshan> 175 dollar sLOL
[23:40:25] <lffurrywo> yep
[23:40:42] <lffurrywo> for "points" that don't seem any more useful than the cashback I get with my credit card...
[23:41:55] <lffurrywo> https://www262.americanexpress.com/business-card-application/member/business-gold-charge-card/login/44446-104-1-CAPOBGRC
[23:42:40] <lffurrywo> Annual Membership Fee
[23:42:40] <lffurrywo> $0 for the first year, then $175
[23:42:47] <zeeshan> lol
[23:44:04] <lffurrywo> so far this year I've made over $150 in cashback with my credit card... I think its pays more than the points add up to being worth.
[23:46:55] <zeeshan> hmm thats pretty good
[23:47:38] <roycroft> why don't you just not get that charge card if you don't like the terms?
[23:47:48] * roycroft does not see how this is an issue at all
[23:48:31] <lffurrywo> it's not even a 1-cent-to-point ratio... apparantly 50,000 points is $300.
[23:48:42] <roycroft> i get credit card offers pretty much every week
[23:48:45] <lffurrywo> roycroft: I'm trying to figure out why ANYONE would get one. I must be missing something...
[23:49:06] <roycroft> the amex charge cards generally do not have a limit
[23:49:20] <roycroft> for business people who expense a lot of stuff that can be useful
[23:49:33] <roycroft> and amex have some really great tools for categorizing expenses
[23:49:56] <roycroft> i think most folks who use their charge cards are business people
[23:50:27] <roycroft> if you're going to expense $50k+ per year the annual fee is no big deal
[23:50:36] <lffurrywo> heh, my amex credit card also claims not to have a limit... or, rather, it has one number they give you, but it's just a suggestion, and they just won't tell you what it is. there's a form you can fill out on their web site that lets you know if an expected purchase would be approved or not.
[23:50:52] <roycroft> my current amex is a credit card and it has decent rewards and no annual fee
[23:51:26] <roycroft> my card has a limit, but it's $34,000
[23:51:29] <roycroft> so essentially no limit
[23:53:02] <lffurrywo> the number they told me is less than that, but I've put substantially larger balances on it with no problems, like they say you can... they won't tell you what your actual hidden limit is, but they do provide a form that lets you see if adding a given purchase to your card would be approved. it's rate-limited to keep you from probing information out of it.
[23:53:27] <roycroft> they told me exactly what the limit was when i opened the account
[23:53:36] <roycroft> when i had an amex charge card they did not tell me
[23:53:48] <roycroft> but the one i have now came with a clearly stipulated limit
[23:53:58] <roycroft> amex offer a lot of different products, with different terms
[23:54:04] <lffurrywo> yeah, the charge card offer I got states it has no limit, but is not unlimited. lol
[23:54:18] <roycroft> i pick the one that works for me and don't worry about who might use one of the others
[23:55:30] <lffurrywo> yeah, I think I'll file this charge card offer in the round cabinet with the rest of them. got THREE chase offers this week. lol
[23:55:52] <roycroft> i got a slate card a couple years ago
[23:55:53] <roycroft> it was great
[23:56:00] <roycroft> i needed to do a balance transfer
[23:56:12] <roycroft> they offered 18 months at 0% apr with 0 fees
[23:56:12] <lffurrywo> my amex isn't top-of-the-line, but it's got an acceptable limit, 12.24% interest (which I've never paid, because I pay it off every month), and good cashback.
[23:56:20] <lffurrywo> yeah, that's one of the ones I got.
[23:56:24] <lffurrywo> (an offer for
[23:56:26] <lffurrywo> )
[23:57:01] <roycroft> if you need to do a balance transfer it is the best deal in the industry right now
[23:57:30] <lffurrywo> I do not need to. I have no balances. heh.
[23:58:49] <roycroft> well sometimes stuff happens
[23:59:02] <roycroft> if so it's nice to be able to deal with it without paying interest
[23:59:13] <roycroft> in the meantime, keep circular filing the offers
[23:59:16] <roycroft> they will continue to come in
