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[02:08:19] <Deejay> moin
[05:02:27] <MattyMatt> my ebike motor measures 1.1Ω across each leg, so I'm assuming 2.2Ω coils. running 24V means 24/2.2=10.9A = 261W for an energised coil, and as one coil is energised at any time, that makes 261W the power of the motor. What's wrong with my maths?
[05:03:03] <MattyMatt> ah 1R + 2R in parallel do not make 2R for a start
[05:03:34] <MattyMatt> or 0.5R
[05:09:25] <witnit> mojn!
[05:10:26] <MattyMatt> yay. 3 resistors twisted together was quicker than algebra. 3x 2kΩ = 1.33 across a leg, so that means my motor has coils 1.5R that measured across the legs?
[05:11:05] <MattyMatt> good morning, fwiw on internet :)
[05:11:31] <witnit> im just sittin here learning about ebike motors :)
[05:11:39] <witnit> hows your morning?
[05:11:47] <MattyMatt> slow
[05:12:07] * MattyMatt 18+st, bike 250-W
[05:12:36] <MattyMatt> that's one thing I learned. a gentle incline will defeat a small one
[05:13:41] <MattyMatt> of course the pedals still work
[05:14:48] <MattyMatt> I've never got the hang of going up hills under pedal power tho, even with gears and when I was fitter
[05:17:19] <MattyMatt> I asked about the motor here, because it's 3 phase delta
[05:17:42] <MattyMatt> BLDC not AC, but that's just a question of magnet style :)
[05:23:55] <MattyMatt> k, next maths challenge, what's the wattage needed to get an 18st man up a 1:4 incline at a speed sufficient to stay upright 1mph?
[05:25:01] <MattyMatt> or 1 knot, while I'm using British Empire units
[05:26:50] <MattyMatt> watts are a bit modern. Watt prefered horsepower
[05:26:59] <witnit> i dont think i know what an 18st man is
[05:27:10] <MattyMatt> 1st = 14lb
[05:28:03] <MattyMatt> Ali at his peak was 16st
[05:28:20] <MattyMatt> girls don't admit if they're over 13st
[05:30:16] <MattyMatt> stones are only used for weighing people tho. it's probably a hangover from ballast in the slave trade or sth
[05:33:05] <MattyMatt> a 56lb sack of spuds is never a 4st one
[05:33:20] <witnit> you like math way too much
[05:33:28] <witnit> even your name sounds like math
[05:33:40] <MattyMatt> it's either 56lb, half a cwt, or "we've gone metric, they're 25kg now"
[05:34:15] <witnit> whenever i have to do math i just whip up a spreadsheet
[05:34:44] <MattyMatt> yep my prefered way, now spreadsheets exist
[05:34:59] * MattyMatt remembers visicalc launch
[05:35:13] <witnit> then hit save so i never have to remember the crazy formulas i spend hours finding
[05:36:30] <MattyMatt> I tried to learn some calculus recently, but you've got to remember about 40 tricks to simplify integrals
[05:36:49] <MattyMatt> bugger that. I integrate with for..next loops :)
[05:37:38] <XXCoder> hey
[05:39:50] <archivist_herron> it is better to just read the bike spec for the motor power
[05:40:01] <archivist_herron> bugger doing the maths
[05:40:33] <MattyMatt> I haven't mastered typing chinese into google yet :)
[05:41:03] <witnit> i dont even know what integrals are
[05:41:34] <archivist_herron> the opposite of differentiation :)
[05:42:08] <witnit> oh i feel smarter already
[05:42:17] <witnit> whats a differenthing
[05:42:27] <XXCoder> calculus 1 and 2 was fun
[05:42:35] <XXCoder> calculus 3 was nightmare due to really sucky teacher
[05:42:49] <witnit> archivist_herron: seems pretty good :P
[05:44:24] <archivist_herron> I only know how to copy the formulas someone else worked out
[05:45:37] <MattyMatt> I've seen it all derived from first principles and proved, but it's still just so much to remember
[05:46:25] <MattyMatt> https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLF5E22224459D23D9&feature=plcp
[05:46:54] <MattyMatt> pretty good teacher
[05:47:34] <XXCoder> MattyMatt: he speaks very clearly
[05:47:40] <XXCoder> so clear autocaptions actually make sense
[05:47:48] <MattyMatt> 1980s NTSC video toaster vid quality is nostalgic
[05:48:06] <MattyMatt> see that chromakey shimmer
[05:48:16] <XXCoder> sometimes odd stuff but yeah mostly make sense
[05:48:52] <XXCoder> can you turn on autocaption and see how well it matches?
[05:52:39] <MattyMatt> "sometimes the axe is considered to be the argument" :)
[05:53:07] <MattyMatt> heeeeere's johnny!
[05:53:07] <XXCoder> lol there is worse ones. MUCH worse
[05:53:12] <XXCoder> lol
[05:54:21] <XXCoder> bad ones look like one of failed output from infinite monkey random keypresses that contain all english words but dont make sense
[05:54:49] <MattyMatt> like the FBI's version of Louie Louie :)
[05:56:27] <XXCoder> dont know much about music
[05:57:35] <witnit> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uaQ1vXdf1Q0
[05:57:49] <witnit> ohh... sorry xx forgot
[05:59:22] <XXCoder> np
[05:59:35] <XXCoder> its just not part of average person life, deafness
[06:00:00] <XXCoder> sense of smell is MUCH worse. people refuse to talk about it
[06:00:22] <XXCoder> I remember one time when boss had a meeting and tried to be really tactfully tell me that I smell
[06:00:45] <XXCoder> I told him its fine just tell me if still problem because frankly I never know
[06:01:25] <MattyMatt> although there is an app for that now, as it happens
[06:01:26] <witnit> ohh yeah i guess i never think about it, i hang out with hippies hahaha
[06:01:48] <MattyMatt> a nose that plugs in your phone
[06:02:38] <MattyMatt> although it doesn't know the diff between your feet and a fine gorgonzola
[06:02:54] <XXCoder> lol
[06:04:51] <XXCoder> well night
[06:07:32] <MattyMatt> goodnight. 10 to noon here but whatevs :0
[08:17:02] <balestrino> how i can calculate a bracking resistor for a 8i20 with a 1Kw servo motor (300VDC)
[08:21:30] <Tecan> that sounds a bit excessive
[08:21:45] <Tecan> what are you servoing ?
[08:21:48] <archivist> the manual ives a value
[08:21:54] <archivist> gives
[08:22:23] <Tecan> make a windmill outa that
[08:25:11] <balestrino> i'm going to replace my spindle motor
[08:26:01] <balestrino> manual say no more than 15A
[08:26:53] <balestrino> 20 ohm is ok?
[08:28:15] <archivist> lower value resister forces a higher current at a particular voltage
[08:40:05] <balestrino> but the basic calculation is ok? 300VDC / 15A = 20 ohm?
[08:40:43] <balestrino> or it's more safe to get a bigger value, like 30ohm?
[08:41:43] <balestrino> it's my first braking resistor :)
[09:15:13] <ssi> excessive?
[09:15:17] <ssi> my axis servos are 1kw
[09:15:27] <ssi> my spindle servo is 15hp :P
[09:15:59] <balestrino> ssi what kind of braking resistor are you using?
[09:16:10] <ssi> I'm not
[09:16:43] <balestrino> it's not mandatory?
[09:16:58] <ssi> no, it just helps decelerate faster
[09:17:20] <ssi> I dunno, I haven't used the 8i20, might be mandatory for it
[09:19:07] <balestrino> ok, i'm going to try rigid tapping so i think it's necessary to have a braking resistor. But i have no experience with it
[09:19:33] <ssi> it's not really necessary, it's just helpful
[09:19:44] <ssi> I rigid tap on my lathe run by a vfd without a braking resistor
[09:19:56] <ssi> there's decel time, and you have to program your tap depth so that there's room for decel and reversal
[09:20:09] <ssi> ie if you program the tap depth too close to the tap bottoming out, it'll overshoot and break the tap
[09:20:13] <ssi> just have to compensate for it
[09:20:54] <ssi> I should order an 8I20 and see how it does for my fanuc servos on the vmc
[09:21:50] <zeeshan> i need a real time platform for my pressure control
[09:21:54] <zeeshan> any suggestions?
[09:22:08] <balestrino> ssi: thanks
[09:22:37] <zeeshan> actually maybe i dont
[09:22:38] <zeeshan> nm :P
[09:22:50] <zeeshan> like i dont understand something
[09:23:16] <zeeshan> if there is a small delay between pressure reading + a lag on output
[09:23:28] <zeeshan> isn't that going to throw my pressure out of wack?
[09:29:05] <malcom2073> there will always be a delay in any control system, how much is acceptable?
[09:29:20] <zeeshan> well what is it without a real time os?
[09:29:21] <zeeshan> typically
[09:29:33] <archivist> just make sure it is stable
[09:29:35] <malcom2073> that's not delay, that's reliability
[09:30:08] <zeeshan> so check this out
[09:30:21] <zeeshan> im basically blowing a ballooon. i want it to hold a certain shape
[09:30:43] <zeeshan> but this balloon is subjected to temperature change.
[09:31:04] <zeeshan> and for lower temperatures this balloon is easier to stretch.
[09:31:30] <zeeshan> my goal is to hold that shape constant. i'd like to do this through pressure control
[09:32:03] <zeeshan> because using ideal gas law, as volume increases (balloon gets larger), the pressure must decrease for constant temperature.
[09:32:25] <zeeshan> also, for decreasing temperature, the pressure must decrease.
[09:32:50] <malcom2073> Except in a balloon, to maintain shape, when temperature decreases, pressure must increase.
[09:32:52] <zeeshan> so i was thinking, if i keep pressure constant, then i can maintain the shape to desired
[09:33:02] <malcom2073> Ohh I see
[09:33:03] <malcom2073> nevermind
[09:33:16] <zeeshan> malcom2073: pv = nrt
[09:33:33] <malcom2073> Then yeah, maintain pressure. How tightly you have to maintain it depends on your tolerance for error
[09:33:39] <zeeshan> p and v are inversely proportional and p and t are directly proportional
[09:33:47] <zeeshan> i'd like to hold .01 psi
[09:33:47] <zeeshan> if i can
[09:33:58] <zeeshan> i want to do it as best as possible
[09:34:37] <malcom2073> Accurate sensors, very precise valvess, and a fast control loop then
[09:34:40] <zeeshan> http://www.omega.ca/pptst_eng/Px309.html
[09:34:46] <zeeshan> im using bang bang control
[09:34:57] <zeeshan> i dont care if i blow up the solenoids
[09:35:01] <zeeshan> i have 32 of them :P
[09:35:07] <zeeshan> ill use SSRs
[09:35:58] <zeeshan> accuracy is usually .25% +/-
[09:36:08] <zeeshan> of the full scale range
[09:36:15] <malcom2073> Seems easy enough
[09:36:29] <zeeshan> now the q is what should be my platform
[09:36:34] <zeeshan> i am familiar with linuxcnc
[09:36:44] <malcom2073> You could do it in 5 minutes on an arduino
[09:36:49] <malcom2073> Yeah or linuxcnc
[09:36:51] <ssi> linuxcnc would take a lot of programming out of it if you want to do fancy PID control
[09:36:52] <zeeshan> im not familiar with arduino :(
[09:36:52] <malcom2073> seems overkill though
[09:36:56] <ssi> but PID is easy to write
[09:37:07] <malcom2073> zeeshan: There are literally tons of arduino PID projects heh
[09:37:15] <ssi> go take that autonavx course!
[09:38:50] <zeeshan> why ssi
[09:38:53] <zeeshan> i can use hal
[09:38:55] <zeeshan> !
[09:38:59] <zeeshan> and pid component
[09:39:06] <ssi> I know you can
[09:39:13] <ssi> but it'd be a good learning experience to implement pid
[09:39:15] <zeeshan> it'd all be in hal i'd think
[09:39:15] <ssi> and it's really not that hard
[09:39:44] <malcom2073> Seems kinda silly to have a whole computer running, just to do a simple pid loop
[09:39:52] <zeeshan> i want to do more.
[09:39:54] <zeeshan> i need to daq too
[09:39:58] <zeeshan> i need a log of temp vs time
[09:40:02] <ssi> arduino can do all of this
[09:40:02] <zeeshan> i also got a flir going
[09:40:03] <malcom2073> So then you have to add hardware for analog input
[09:40:11] <zeeshan> i also gotta log the pressure
[09:40:16] <ssi> or a raspi or bbb
[09:40:21] <malcom2073> So PC + hardware
[09:40:26] <malcom2073> or.... arduino.
[09:40:28] <ssi> if it were me
[09:40:29] <_methods> oh wow
[09:40:32] <zeeshan> thats why i feel like pc + hardware might be more flexible
[09:40:32] <_methods> http://in.reuters.com/article/2015/05/28/broadcom-ma-avago-idINL3N0YJ3Y120150528
[09:40:33] <ssi> I'd use a bbb, and write the software in go
[09:40:44] <zeeshan> ssi i know python :(
[09:40:48] <ssi> python then
[09:40:50] <ssi> I just like go
[09:40:53] <ssi> and it's closer to the hardware :D
[09:41:04] <zeeshan> is the default os for beagle bone REAL time?
[09:41:25] <_methods> ssi: you work for google or something lol
[09:41:26] <ssi> no, but people have made rtos images for it
[09:41:31] <ssi> _methods: no
[09:41:36] <ssi> but go is an awesome language
[09:41:40] <ssi> especially for crap like this
[09:41:56] <_methods> scratch heheh
[09:42:20] <archivist> linuxcnc pid comes free
[09:42:50] <_methods> avago buyin broadcom
[09:42:56] <ssi> archivist:
https://s3.amazonaws.com/uploads.hipchat.com/7809/18061/CGtLK1i1CBgbwdP/Screen%20Shot%202015-05-26%20at%201.57.16%20PM.png
[09:43:09] <ssi> one-variable PD control I wrote in ten minutes for the autonav course the other day
[09:43:12] <ssi> it's flippin easy
[09:43:36] <zeeshan> http://www.phidgets.com/products.php?category=35&product_id=1051_2
[09:43:43] <zeeshan> i wanted to use this product for temp measurement
[09:43:51] <archivist> someone else writing it is even easier :)
[09:43:59] <ssi> spendy
[09:44:11] <ssi> zeeshan: did I ever tell you about the podponics stuff I built?
[09:44:15] <zeeshan> no
[09:44:39] <ssi> it's a BBB cape, with 16 SSRs on it, a temp/humidity sensor, CO2 sensor, and PWM outputs for light dimmers
[09:44:46] <malcom2073> Man zeeshan, You must be made of money, you're choosing all the really expensive options heh
[09:44:49] <malcom2073> :-P
[09:44:52] <ssi> it runs water solenoids and monitors environment for a hydroponic system
[09:44:54] <zeeshan> its not for me
[09:45:00] <zeeshan> i have like 10000 in research funds
[09:45:03] <ssi> I designed the board and wrote the control software
[09:45:08] <zeeshan> i want to spend them wisely
[09:45:11] <ssi> that was my big side client last year
[09:45:13] <zeeshan> get the best possible data i can get
[09:45:22] <ssi> they were the ones that were paying me to laser cut all those parts when I burned the damn house
[09:45:23] <zeeshan> cause ill get raped if i publish results that are unreliable
[09:45:35] <zeeshan> ssi ah
[09:45:41] <ssi> but it was a similar project
[09:45:46] <ssi> hardware wise
[09:45:53] <zeeshan> what were you using for hardware
[09:45:58] <ssi> BBB plus my custom cape
[09:46:03] <zeeshan> cape?
[09:46:06] <zeeshan> dont use big words with me! :P
[09:47:10] <ssi> cape is just the stupid word bbb people use to mean add-on board
[09:47:16] <ssi> arduino people call it "shield"
[09:47:18] <zeeshan> oh
[09:47:19] <zeeshan> lol
[09:47:23] <zeeshan> damn it why!!!
[09:47:29] <malcom2073> Because money
[09:47:30] <archivist> interface card
[09:47:30] <cpresser> ssi: you mean 'hat'?
[09:47:31] <zeeshan> is addon hard to write
[09:47:37] <cpresser> or piggyback-board?
[09:47:40] <ssi> they call them capes because the notch for the ethernet jack makes it look like a cape
[09:47:45] <zeeshan> lol
[09:47:46] <malcom2073> Normal people don't understand those words. cape is cute, people like cape, so they buy it
[09:47:54] <ssi> lemme see if I can find pictures
[09:48:04] <zeeshan> what os were you running
[09:48:14] <archivist> shield hides the crap under it
[09:48:24] <malcom2073> As an added bonus, you can run linuxcnc on your BBB when you're done :-P
[09:48:31] <zeeshan> ahha
[09:48:52] <malcom2073> Though it runs significantly better with machinekit than linuxcnc nowadays :/
[09:48:56] <zeeshan> so the main advantage im seeing for bbb is gpio
[09:48:58] <zeeshan> vs a regular pc
[09:49:01] <ssi> machinekit on a bbb would be a good option too, actually
[09:49:10] <ssi> yes gpio, including analog I believe
[09:49:30] <malcom2073> There are 6 analog input iirc?
[09:49:31] <zeeshan> says 7 12 bit adc
[09:49:35] <malcom2073> ah 7
[09:49:43] <malcom2073> 0-3.3v
[09:49:45] <zeeshan> 125 ns sample tiome
[09:49:46] <ssi> no pics of the boards I designed :/
[09:50:02] <malcom2073> wait, no
[09:50:09] <malcom2073> 0.1.8v
[09:50:12] <zeeshan> i hate that way ot specificiation
[09:50:38] <zeeshan> why not just say 80,000,000 cycles per s
[09:50:39] <zeeshan> :P
[09:51:15] <zeeshan> well 1.8V is useless?
[09:51:18] <zeeshan> most sensors are 0-10v
[09:51:19] <zeeshan> or 0-5v
[09:51:27] <malcom2073> voltage divider
[09:51:30] <ssi> time to channel your inner EE
[09:51:34] <archivist> opamp
[09:51:37] <ssi> opamp
[09:51:38] <_methods> they make a cape for that lol
[09:51:41] <zeeshan> i dont wanna get into that stuff
[09:51:44] <zeeshan> i just wanna work with modular
[09:51:48] <zeeshan> i already have other shit to deal with
[09:51:51] <archivist> lazy
[09:51:58] <zeeshan> it's not lazy
[09:52:00] <zeeshan> i have 1 year left
[09:52:03] <zeeshan> i need to come up with results
[09:52:07] <zeeshan> and write a thesis and publish 2 papers
[09:52:22] <zeeshan> i can spend maybe a month on control
[09:52:31] <ssi> balestrino: 8i20 manual says 25 ohm braking resistor
[09:52:41] <malcom2073> Then spend $5k and buy a datalogger board
[09:52:50] <zeeshan> i aint spending half my budget on a daq
[09:52:50] <zeeshan> lol
[09:52:57] <zeeshan> theres much cheaper usb daqs
[09:53:00] <malcom2073> Then spend half your time designing your own :-P
[09:53:07] <zeeshan> theres like 300$ daq
[09:53:12] <ssi> why does he keep saying daq
[09:53:16] <ssi> DAQ DAQ
[09:53:18] <malcom2073> or half your time writing software
[09:53:18] <ssi> you sound like a duck
[09:53:50] <zeeshan> http://www.mccdaq.com/usb-data-acquisition/USB-230-Series.aspx
[09:53:51] <zeeshan> malcom2073:
[09:53:52] <zeeshan> ^
[09:54:27] <zeeshan> http://labjack.com/u6
[09:54:28] <zeeshan> mor
[09:54:47] <malcom2073> See zeeshan, I just throw a couple arduinos together and spent like 10 minutes writing firmware and boom. Not quite as quick, but certainly saves money
[09:55:40] <zeeshan> how will arduino log temp :P
[09:55:50] <malcom2073> it has analog inputs, get a $0.20 temp sensor
[09:55:59] <zeeshan> youre thinking diy stuff
[09:56:03] <zeeshan> im thinking lab grade equipment
[09:56:08] <ssi> zeeshan: the temp/humidity sensor I used on the podponics cape was expensive and accurate
[09:56:11] <ssi> it was likeu a $22 sensor
[09:56:11] <zeeshan> you're not going to use a .2 sensor
[09:56:18] <malcom2073> Then get a $20 sensor.
[09:56:19] <zeeshan> i already have thermocouples
[09:56:25] <zeeshan> those need amplifiers
[09:56:26] <zeeshan> etc
[09:56:34] <ssi> and it was I2C
[09:56:39] <malcom2073> Sensors interface with arduino the same way they interface with the DAQ board.
[09:56:41] <ssi> so no fucking with analog
[09:56:43] <balestrino> ssi: tnx
[09:56:55] <malcom2073> I2C is convenient
[09:57:05] <zeeshan> malcom2073: arduino's adc is garbage
[09:57:06] <_methods> the new max one?
[09:57:19] <zeeshan> youd need to do amplification
[09:57:24] <_methods> where you can link together a pile of thermocouples
[09:57:40] <ssi> zeeshan:
http://sensing.honeywell.com/honeywell-sensing-humidicon-hih6100-series-product-sheet-009059-6-en.pdf
[09:57:45] <_methods> max31855?
[09:57:47] <ssi> +/- 0.5C
[09:57:50] <ssi> is that accurate enough for you?
[09:58:03] <zeeshan> ssi i have an omega e5k right now in the chamber
[09:58:05] <malcom2073> zeeshan: Matches my fluke multimeter to as many decimal places as the fluke displays, good enough for me, but then again, DIY :-P
[09:58:07] <zeeshan> which is using a specific thermocouple
[09:58:17] <zeeshan> i will be using remote control signal to control temp
[09:58:22] <zeeshan> id like to just log the temp vs time
[09:58:45] <zeeshan> this will be on top of the flir
[09:58:48] <ssi> with a thermocouple + analog system, you need temp compensation and shit for accuracy
[09:59:40] <zeeshan> wat
[10:00:46] <_methods> oh you're using that ADT7420
[10:01:25] <zeeshan> wow im a nooblet
[10:01:30] <zeeshan> its an omron not omega
[10:01:33] <zeeshan> http://industrial.omron.com.br/uploads/arquivos/D14E5AKEK1206.pdf
[10:01:45] <_methods> i need to try that thing out that's better than the max31855
[10:02:19] <zeeshan> looks like this thing outputs 4-20mA
[10:02:33] <zeeshan> for the "transfer output" of the temp reading
[10:03:18] <zeeshan> and takes also a 4-20mA input to control temp range
[10:04:29] <ssi> see you could read that with a 0-1.8V ADC input
[10:04:34] <ssi> you'd just have to load it to the correct range
[10:04:57] <zeeshan> first lemme clarify something
[10:05:10] <zeeshan> would 4mA mean min value and 20mA mean max value
[10:05:14] <ssi> probably
[10:05:27] <archivist> if you wish (usually)
[10:05:47] <zeeshan> so then i wwould need a really nice 90 ohm resistor
[10:05:54] <zeeshan> so limit it to 1.8V max
[10:05:58] <ssi> exactly
[10:06:06] <ssi> I'd probably go a little lower
[10:06:15] <ssi> so your full scale value is below the 1.8V threshold
[10:06:30] <zeeshan> okay that makes sense
[10:06:33] <zeeshan> what about for outputting?
[10:06:44] <ssi> then figure out what your low end and high end voltages are, and how many steps you get out of the 12 bit, and then how big your steps are
[10:06:50] <zeeshan> i'd put a resistor in the gp output the same way?
[10:06:53] <ssi> see if that gives you adequate precision
[10:07:00] <ssi> outputting what?
[10:07:16] <zeeshan> the temp to the physical pid temp controller
[10:07:21] <zeeshan> setpoint
[10:07:37] <zeeshan> so that way i can run the lab from a program i have written
[10:07:42] <zeeshan> *lab = test
[10:07:55] <ssi> I thought the point of this was to have the computer be the controller
[10:07:59] <ssi> the bbb rather
[10:08:00] <zeeshan> no thats only for pressure
[10:08:06] <zeeshan> i already have a temp controller
[10:08:07] <zeeshan> that works well! :P
[10:08:25] <ssi> is it currently being driven by the thermocouple circuit 4-20ma output?
[10:08:46] <zeeshan> http://i.imgur.com/Leq6Wx3.jpg
[10:08:48] <zeeshan> back panel
[10:09:08] <zeeshan> it has a pid controller that controls some ssr which control some liquid n2 solenoid
[10:09:10] <zeeshan> and heater
[10:09:19] <t12> did you get that thing?
[10:09:32] <zeeshan> im just tapping into the pid controller to control the setpoint and grab the current temp
[10:09:46] <zeeshan> (which this pid controller does through certain pins by using 4-20ma signals)
[10:09:58] <zeeshan> t12 no, i already had this lol
[10:10:07] <zeeshan> http://i.imgur.com/DiL8nDC.jpg
[10:10:10] <zeeshan> this baby
[10:10:30] <zeeshan> http://i.imgur.com/0Onzg8I.jpg
[10:10:36] <zeeshan> tsee those empty 4 pins
[10:10:47] <zeeshan> those are the remote setpoint and transfer output pins
[10:11:05] <zeeshan> im going to throw a resistor on them and measure with a voltmeter
[10:11:10] <zeeshan> to make sure :P
[10:15:36] <ssi> so much angst
[10:15:41] <ssi> over a temperature measurement
[10:15:50] <zeeshan> ssi just working with what i have
[10:15:52] <ssi> :)
[10:16:00] <zeeshan> i think the rasp will work
[10:16:03] <zeeshan> i already have one..
[10:16:04] <zeeshan> http://www.briandorey.com/post/ADC-Pi-Raspberry-Pi-I2C-Analog-to-Digital-Converter-boards-available-to-buy-online.aspx
[10:16:07] <zeeshan> i need to grab this
[10:16:15] <zeeshan> 15 bit adc..
[10:16:24] <zeeshan> (usable 15 bits)
[10:17:12] <zeeshan> https://www.abelectronics.co.uk/products/17/Raspberry-Pi/56/ADC-Pi-Plus---Raspberry-Pi-Analogue-to-Digital-converter
[10:17:12] <zeeshan> nm
[10:17:15] <zeeshan> 17 bits!
[10:17:31] <zeeshan> that is what im talking about.
[10:17:33] <zeeshan> shit i understand!
[10:18:15] <ssi> heh
[10:18:48] <zeeshan> blah
[10:18:53] <zeeshan> 3.75 sps at 17 bits
[10:18:54] <zeeshan> weak suace
[10:18:56] <pcw_home> TI has a nice 32 bit A-D (good to 26 bits or so at its slowest setting)
[10:19:26] <zeeshan> pcw_home: make me a board! :P
[10:19:42] <pcw_home> (good meaning ENOB not accuracy of course)
[10:20:16] <pcw_home> Wish I had time to do engineering sigh...
[10:20:21] <zeeshan> hehe
[10:20:35] <ssi> pcw_home: I think I might be ready to break down and try 8i20 with a hal module for doing the commutation conversion for my stupid fanuc servos
[10:20:40] <ssi> I don't have time to screw with hardware right now
[10:20:52] <zeeshan> ssi youre working on the mill?!?!?
[10:20:52] <zeeshan> NICE
[10:21:16] <ssi> pcw_home: eventually I guess I'll probably want a 7i44 to break out sserial for three 8i20s, but is it feasible to get one 8i20 and test it using the extra sserial port on the 7i77?
[10:21:22] <zeeshan> pcw_home: help me come up with a solution :-(
[10:21:23] <ssi> zeeshan: not yet, but I need to be :P
[10:22:01] <zeeshan> http://i.imgur.com/vdwrLn2.jpg
[10:22:09] <zeeshan> these are all 24v on/off air solenoids
[10:22:19] <zeeshan> i wanted to build a proof of concept using this
[10:22:30] <zeeshan> http://i.imgur.com/F3Xi1MT.jpg
[10:22:48] <zeeshan> 100psi, 24v solenoids :D
[10:22:51] <pcw_home> http://www.ti.com/product/ads1262
[10:24:59] <zeeshan> pcw_home: no chips :(
[10:25:01] <zeeshan> modular!
[10:25:11] <zeeshan> plug and play!
[10:25:28] <ssi> chips and dip!
[10:25:30] <malcom2073> You want professional level plug and play at hobbiest level prices, yeah?
[10:25:31] <pcw_home> notice the direct strain gage and RTD connection in the drawing
[10:25:49] <zeeshan> malcom2073: no i want a professional level plug and play :P
[10:26:14] <zeeshan> pcw_home: im reading pressure transducer
[10:26:23] <zeeshan> 0-5 or 0-10V output
[10:26:25] <malcom2073> zeeshan: You complained when I pointed out a 5k national instraments daq :-P
[10:26:39] <zeeshan> and id like to drive 2 solenoids
[10:26:48] <zeeshan> through 2 ssrs
[10:27:00] <zeeshan> on lets pressure in, one blows it to atm
[10:27:07] <zeeshan> with a deadbang of .5 psi between em
[10:27:14] <zeeshan> *deadband
[10:27:39] <zeeshan> need hardware to do this :/
[10:28:51] <Rab> There are cheaper DAQs:
http://www.mccdaq.com/usb-data-acquisition/USB-201.aspx
[10:29:29] <zeeshan> Rab: yes, but im thinking whatever will be reading the pressure transducer
[10:29:32] <zeeshan> should be able to log it
[10:29:40] <zeeshan> cause it's using it to calculate pid parameters
[10:29:54] <zeeshan> without needing a standalone daq like that
[10:42:02] <zeeshan> https://www.adafruit.com/products/1085
[10:42:09] <zeeshan> hmm less bits, but fasterr sps
[11:14:32] <ssi> well crap
[11:33:57] <jdh> z: get a qb2
[11:34:40] <jdh> or maybe a bb2
[11:51:31] <zeeshan> bbb looks very attractive
[11:52:43] <jdh> big beautiful babe?
[11:52:59] <malcom2073> BeagleBoneBlack lol
[11:55:12] <zeeshan> i might be overlookin something
[11:55:18] <zeeshan> but i dont see a DAC
[11:55:30] <zeeshan> only 12bit adc
[11:55:57] <malcom2073> True. You can simulate a DAC with PWM, but I don't think it has a native DAC
[12:07:51] <Aero-Tec> right now I am using Pports for computer output
[12:07:51] <Aero-Tec> I am wanting to switch over to Mesa Cards for output
[12:07:51] <Aero-Tec> any ideas on if I can drive my motors faster and if so any ideas as to how much faster?
[12:07:51] <Aero-Tec> also I am using older computers
[12:07:51] <Aero-Tec> would updating them also help to speed things up?
[12:08:24] <Aero-Tec> my servos do not seem to be running at full speed
[12:08:52] <Aero-Tec> thinking the Pports are not outputting fast enough
[12:09:33] <archivist> or you set limits too low
[12:09:51] <Aero-Tec> was hoping the Mesa Cards would help make things faster
[12:10:02] <Aero-Tec> what limits?
[12:10:19] <archivist> your axis speeds
[12:10:26] <Aero-Tec> computer clocking settings?
[12:10:56] <Aero-Tec> there is a speed limits setting?
[12:11:06] <Aero-Tec> cool
[12:11:26] <Aero-Tec> so that would be the config file?
[12:11:42] <Aero-Tec> what setting should I be looking for?
[12:12:41] <archivist> http://www.linuxcnc.org/docs/html/config/ini_config.html#sub:AXIS-section
[12:13:00] <archivist> but is that your real problem ?
[12:13:28] <archivist> what are you doing that is slow
[12:14:39] <Aero-Tec> servos on lathe
[12:15:15] <Aero-Tec> the z has a 10 to 1 planetary on it
[12:15:59] <Aero-Tec> but even the x is sort of slow if the motor was doing the 3K it is rated for
[12:16:46] <archivist> 10-1 seems rather high
[12:16:53] <Aero-Tec> thought the Pport pulsing was not fast enough
[12:17:14] <Aero-Tec> yea I messed up there some
[12:17:38] <Aero-Tec> would have been 5-1 and 3-1 for the x
[12:17:56] <Aero-Tec> the x is direct drive right now
[12:18:17] <Aero-Tec> and I am getting faults when parting
[12:18:23] <archivist> you can scale pwm to speed of the motor, have you got that right?
[12:18:49] <Aero-Tec> the motor falls behind, not enough torque
[12:18:54] <Aero-Tec> I am guessing
[12:19:40] <archivist> you said servo, does it have encoder feedback
[12:19:43] <Aero-Tec> using gecko drives and Pport output from computer
[12:19:54] <Aero-Tec> yes to encoder
[12:20:30] <Aero-Tec> the x torque seems low
[12:20:53] <archivist> fix each problem one by one
[12:21:16] <Aero-Tec> right now the x faulting is the pain
[12:21:34] <Aero-Tec> I have a 10-1 gear box
[12:22:22] <Aero-Tec> was thinking on doing a x belt drive and doing a 3-1 reduction
[12:22:35] <Aero-Tec> right now the x sticks out way to much
[12:22:46] <archivist> one axis at a time, you said x is direct drive, is the motor large enough, is the voltage of your power supply high enough
[12:22:58] <Aero-Tec> and adding the gear box would make it worse
[12:23:12] <Aero-Tec> yes to volts
[12:23:36] <Aero-Tec> over kill on power supply
[12:23:47] <archivist> volts?
[12:24:17] <Aero-Tec> the volts are what the motors are rated for the the upper limits of the geckos
[12:24:34] <Aero-Tec> should have had a and
[12:26:40] <Aero-Tec> they are the large servos from
http://www.kelinginc.net/
[12:28:09] <MattyMatt> ak. my bike motor might be star wired, that means the coils are only 0.55Ω, but for current usage I should use the 1.1Ω measured across the leg?
[12:28:41] <ssi> hm
[12:28:50] <Aero-Tec> ok they added a bigger one
[12:29:23] <Aero-Tec> it is the 850 one
[12:32:16] <archivist> you mean this
http://www.automationtechnologiesinc.com/products-page/nema-34-dc-servo-motor/skewed-servo-dual-shaft
[12:32:28] <ssi> I've wanted to try their servos
[12:35:13] <archivist> methinks those motors are over the gecko limits somewhat
[12:35:43] <archivist> I can imagine the drive current limiting
[12:35:59] <ssi> I wouldn't use a gecko drive if you paid me :P
[12:36:00] <Aero-Tec> that could be the problem
[12:36:37] <MattyMatt> 1.1Ω load implies >20A @24V. current limiting is happening here for sure. driver has a single sense resistor on the negative rail
[12:38:49] <ssi> Aero-Tec: if I were in your shoes, I'd be getting ahold of some proper analog drives and a mesa card
[12:38:58] <MattyMatt> and this driver completely lacks diodes on the mosfets, presumably to stop the back-emf braking when the battery's dead
[12:39:31] <ssi> which drive are you using? the 201v or whatever?
[12:39:42] <MattyMatt> homebrew! 3 phase is just 6 mosfets :)
[12:39:48] <MattyMatt> and an arduino
[12:39:52] <ssi> 320x?
[12:39:57] <ssi> MattyMatt: not youuuuu :P
[12:40:02] <Aero-Tec> ssi, thanks for the input
[12:40:09] <Aero-Tec> I will do just that
[12:40:17] <ssi> Aero-Tec: look at the AMC drives
[12:40:21] <ssi> the brush drives are plentiful
[12:40:23] <ssi> like the 30A8T
[12:40:31] <ssi> that's an 80V drive, 30A peak
[12:40:54] <ssi> you can often snag them on ebay for $30 apiece if you hunt
[12:41:08] <ssi> if you find a deal on AMC brushless drives, get them too
[12:41:16] <ssi> the brushless drives will run brush motors, but not vice versa
[12:41:46] <ssi> but I really really don't like servo systems with the position loop closed by a drive, like those step/dir geckos do
[12:41:52] <ssi> the whole point of linuxcnc is to close the loop in linuxcnc
[12:42:07] <ssi> it's the biggest thing it does that mach doesn't
[12:42:59] <Aero-Tec> to do that I would need Mesa Cards
[12:43:06] <ssi> yes
[12:43:10] <Aero-Tec> Pport would not do that for me
[12:43:11] <ssi> which you want, I promise :)
[12:43:21] <Aero-Tec> ok
[12:43:23] <Aero-Tec> cool
[12:43:45] <Aero-Tec> what about configuring and setting it all up?
[12:43:45] <ssi> linuxcnc with a mesa card is the most unbelievably full-featured system you can imagine, and the prices are extremely reasonable
[12:43:51] <ssi> it's some learning curve but it's not awful
[12:43:57] <ssi> and there are plenty of experts here
[12:44:13] <PetefromTn_> yup
[12:44:25] <ssi> yea if pete can do it, anyone can do it ;)
[12:44:35] <PetefromTn_> Kiss the ass man LOL
[12:44:38] <ssi> :D
[12:44:42] <Tom_itx> roflmao
[12:45:12] <PetefromTn_> technically I have not actually DONE it yet... still working on the bitch
[12:45:31] <PetefromTn_> toolchanger may never get done at this rate
[12:45:55] <Tom_itx> git r dun
[12:46:01] <ssi> rarely does a machine like yours ever get "done"
[12:46:04] <PetefromTn_> don't know how
[12:46:08] <Tom_itx> learn
[12:46:09] <Tom_itx> read
[12:46:10] <Tom_itx> ask
[12:46:11] <Tom_itx> do
[12:46:14] <PetefromTn_> treid that
[12:46:14] <ssi> once you have toolchanger, then you can work on 4th axis forever
[12:46:22] <MattyMatt> bash metal. critique later
[12:46:40] <PetefromTn_> just loaded up a program I have been running for a customer
[12:46:50] <PetefromTn_> loaded fixture, touched it off
[12:46:54] <PetefromTn_> loaded all tools
[12:46:59] <PetefromTn_> touched them all off just to be sure
[12:47:06] <PetefromTn_> went to run program
[12:47:14] <PetefromTn_> realized the fixture is on backwards
[12:47:17] <PetefromTn_> DOH!!
[12:47:19] <Tom_itx> ever figure out what your offset issue was?
[12:47:23] <Tom_itx> beside that...
[12:47:32] <PetefromTn_> no everything seems to be working right now
[12:47:38] <PetefromTn_> made some cool parts yesterday
[12:47:46] <PetefromTn_> they are on fleabay now
[12:47:51] <PetefromTn_> hoping for some good results
[12:48:10] <ssi> PetefromTn_: I'm thinking about ordering an 8i20 drive and trying to get one axis working that way
[12:48:13] <ssi> if it works out I'll do the other two
[12:48:14] <PetefromTn_> been doing a LOT of soft jaw pocketing work for two sided parts lately
[12:48:20] <ssi> I need to get that damn machine going
[12:48:41] <Tom_itx> ssi do you have link to your rotary project?
[12:48:43] <PetefromTn_> I know man I feel your pain. I NEED this damn lathe running but I cannot afford the damn parts right now
[12:48:48] <ssi> Tom_itx: eh?
[12:48:57] <Tom_itx> didn't you make a rotary axis?
[12:48:59] <ssi> no
[12:49:06] <Tom_itx> mmm who was that...
[12:50:09] <PetefromTn_> My daughter got bit by some kinda bug and she has a frackin' huge welt on her forearm... I took her to the doctors and they THINK it is a spider bite... I would love to find that Damn spider and smash his ass to oblivion
[12:52:18] <Tom_itx> better keep a close eye on that
[12:52:25] <PetefromTn_> Oh we are
[12:52:31] <Tom_itx> can get serious quick
[12:52:43] <PetefromTn_> I gotta get her some meds they prescribed here in a bit
[12:52:46] <Aero-Tec> so is AMC drivers the best ones to get?
[12:53:04] <PetefromTn_> ssi what is an 8i20?
[12:53:10] <Aero-Tec> would Mesa ones be good, or do they even make them?
[12:53:43] <Aero-Tec> I looked at AMC and they do not list prices
[12:54:00] <PetefromTn_> what kind of machine are you working on?
[12:54:20] <Aero-Tec> has anyone played with automation direct drivers and motors?
[12:55:21] <ssi> 8i20 is a servo drive mesa makes
[12:55:29] <ssi> it's a brushless drive, not sure if it's suitable for brush motors or not
[12:55:38] <ssi> AMC are good drives, I dunno if they're the best, but they're plentiful on the used market
[12:55:43] <ssi> new they're quite expensive
[12:56:03] <Aero-Tec> PetefromTn_, are you asking me about my machine?
[12:56:22] <PetefromTn_> sure
[12:56:22] <ssi> automationdirect.com is close to me physically, but no I haven't used their drives and motors
[12:56:26] <ssi> they're kinda spendy IIRC
[12:56:43] <PetefromTn_> they are all chinese drives at automation direct from what I recall
[12:56:48] <Aero-Tec> Grizzly lathe
[12:56:54] <ssi> which one?
[12:56:57] <Aero-Tec> mod to CNC my me
[12:57:07] <PetefromTn_> yeah which one
[12:57:31] <Aero-Tec> over 20 years old one
[12:57:41] <PetefromTn_> what size?
[12:57:50] <Aero-Tec> will look up the new replacement
[12:59:12] <ssi> http://www.ebay.com/itm/ADVANCED-MOTION-CONTROLS-25A20T-LF2-BRUSH-TYPE-PWM-SERVO-AMPLIFIER-/201345553334?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item2ee12153b6
[12:59:16] <ssi> that's a value there
[12:59:20] <ssi> 25A 200V brush drive
[12:59:26] <ssi> too bad there's only one
[12:59:38] <ssi> actually there's two
[12:59:42] <ssi> http://www.ebay.com/itm/ADVANCED-MOTION-CONTROLS-25A20V-LF3-BRUSH-TYPE-PWM-SERVO-AMPLIFIER/381252549958?_trksid=p2047675.c100005.m1851&_trkparms=aid%3D222007%26algo%3DSIC.MBE%26ao%3D1%26asc%3D20131003132420%26meid%3Dded6805595894297aa2019805a9ec27b%26pid%3D100005%26rk%3D1%26rkt%3D6%26sd%3D201345553334&rt=nc
[12:59:45] <PetefromTn_> you are going to go with mesanet drives then?
[12:59:51] <ssi> me? I'm gonna try one
[13:00:01] <ssi> nice thing about the mesa drive is the commutation angle is sent from the host
[13:00:22] <ssi> which means I can just put the encoder and fanuc code shit directly into linuxcnc, do the commutation angle conversion in software (there's already a hal component for it)
[13:00:28] <PetefromTn_> the commutation on those motors has been a real pain for you I guess huh..
[13:00:37] <ssi> yeah it's a pain
[13:00:41] <ssi> mostly just cause I haven't had time to work on it
[13:00:57] <ssi> and I really REALLY don't want to pay jon elson what he's asking for his boards
[13:00:58] <PetefromTn_> too busy flying and building airplanes
[13:01:00] <ssi> yep
[13:01:03] <ssi> heh
[13:01:05] <ssi> about to buy another airplane :P
[13:01:10] <ssi> oh and building a house
[13:01:11] <PetefromTn_> you got it bad man
[13:01:14] <ssi> that's consuming most of my time right now
[13:01:56] <ssi> here's another one, no buy it now
[13:01:57] <ssi> http://www.ebay.com/itm/ADVANCED-MOTOR-CONTROLS-25A20T-BRUSH-TYPE-PWM-SERVO-AMPLIFIER-/231576407947?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item35eb078f8b
[13:01:57] <PetefromTn_> I just redid my whole swimming pool
[13:02:16] <PetefromTn_> I even stripped and resprayed the coping pieces on the top.
[13:02:28] <PetefromTn_> new liner, new skimmer, new jets, new pump and filter
[13:02:36] <ssi> nice
[13:02:38] <PetefromTn_> looks really nice now
[13:02:42] <ssi> I didn't even realize you had a pool :P
[13:03:32] <PetefromTn_> http://i.imgur.com/wFlws7T.jpg
[13:03:39] <PetefromTn_> that was taken yesterday
[13:03:50] <ssi> nice
[13:03:57] <ssi> I'm looking at a property that my mom and I might buy together
[13:04:04] <ssi> it's in an airpark with two grass runways
[13:04:21] <ssi> 3000sqft house, 2 car garage with pit, 40x60 hangar, vinyl lined in ground pool
[13:04:25] <ssi> 7.5 acres
[13:04:25] <PetefromTn_> yeah it is not a big one but 18' seems to be just enough to enjoy and cool off but not be a bitch to take care of
[13:04:44] <PetefromTn_> I almost bought a big house with my mother like that a few years ago
[13:04:47] <PetefromTn_> probably should have
[13:04:54] <Aero-Tec> they no longer have my gap bed lathe
[13:04:56] <PetefromTn_> it was HUGE tho
[13:05:03] <Aero-Tec> 60 long
[13:05:05] <ssi> my grandmother just passed, and my mom has been living with her for 10 years
[13:05:10] <ssi> she wants to sell that house and move back to atlanta
[13:05:14] <Aero-Tec> not sure of the trow
[13:05:15] <ssi> and it's my turn to take care of her haha
[13:05:29] <PetefromTn_> thats nice actually
[13:05:34] <PetefromTn_> if you get along anyways
[13:05:36] <ssi> I'll need to build a second hangar
[13:05:37] <ssi> bigger one
[13:06:04] <ssi> I'd like to do 80x100
[13:06:09] <ssi> but the concrete is gonna be $$$$$$
[13:06:36] <ssi> 80x100x4" is 100yd of concrete
[13:06:45] <PetefromTn_> Aero-Tec I used to have a 16x60 lathe like that
[13:07:08] <PetefromTn_> my current project lathe is a 14.5x40
[13:08:51] <Aero-Tec> I just need to get the x axis to stop erring out
[13:09:05] <Aero-Tec> pain
[13:09:21] <PetefromTn_> I wound up spraying the paint I was using for the lathe on the pool surround pieces LOL Gotta get some more now.
[13:15:41] <ssi> Aero-Tec: get yourself a mesa 7i77 plug & go kit, and a couple inexpensive analog drives
[13:15:59] <ssi> I imagine it'll go a long way toward solving your problems, and it'll give you a bunch of extra flexibility you don't currently have
[13:16:06] <ssi> like easy interface for spindle encoder!
[13:16:40] <ssi> the 7i77 kit is in the neighborhood of $200
[13:16:53] <ssi> 7i77 and 7i76 are like $199 and 209, and I can't remember which one is the more expensive one
[13:17:26] <ssi> the 8i20 drives from mesa are around $200 apiece I think, or like I said you can do the amc drives off ebay for as much or little as you want to spend depending on your hunting
[13:22:47] <CaptHindsight> http://store.mesanet.com/index.php?route=product/product&path=83_85&product_id=58 6i25 is this a new version of the 6i25?
[13:23:48] <ssi> eh?
[13:23:53] <ssi> same as its always been isn't it?
[13:24:05] <CaptHindsight> maybe it's just the price
[13:24:49] <CaptHindsight> I told someone to get the $7x PCIe card and they came back with "it's >$100"
[13:24:54] <ssi> yea looks like the prices have gone up a little bit
[13:25:04] <ssi> I've never bought a 6i25 but I remember the 5i25 being 79 and now its 89
[13:25:21] <CaptHindsight> I forget prices and model numbers
[13:25:32] <ssi> looks like the 7i77 5i25 kit is 239 now
[13:25:37] <ssi> 7i76 5i25 is 199
[13:25:41] <ssi> still very reasonable
[13:26:51] <CaptHindsight> whats the part number of the HM2 ethernet FPGA card?
[13:28:02] <ssi> 7i80 I think?
[13:28:13] <CaptHindsight> http://store.mesanet.com/index.php?route=product/product&path=83_85&product_id=302 or this?
[13:28:23] <ssi> and there's 7i76E and 7i77E now too, which is like a 7i77 + 5i25, combined, and ethernet instead of pci
[13:28:53] <ssi> http://store.mesanet.com/index.php?route=product/product&path=69_62&product_id=290
[13:29:02] <ssi> 7i76E, I don't see a 7i77E, it may not exist yet
[13:29:40] <ssi> damn the 7i76E has two extra superports on it
[13:29:42] <ssi> that's pretty hot
[13:30:40] <CaptHindsight> has anyone gotten hm2-ethernet going on ARM yet?
[13:30:48] <ssi> dunno
[13:31:36] <CaptHindsight> IIRC it works on x86 with preempt-rt
[13:31:50] <CaptHindsight> not RTAI
[13:34:48] <ssi> I haven't had the opportunity to work with the ethernet stuff at all
[13:35:03] <malcom2073> Is there any particular advantage/disadvantage of the ethernet vs pci?
[13:35:21] <witnit> i think amc, servo dynamics, copely controls. are all the same , just different names on them
[13:35:44] <_methods> distance
[13:35:45] <ssi> malcom2073: cabling is an obvious one
[13:36:14] <malcom2073> ssi: Yeah, I mean't more functionally
[13:36:31] <CaptHindsight> same HM2
[13:36:35] <ssi> for instance, on my VMC, the operator station is in front, which is where the monitor and keyboard and mouse will be, but the interfaces are in the cabinet in the back
[13:36:45] <ssi> it's like 15' of cabling between them, which is significant
[13:37:04] <malcom2073> Ah, so long ethernet instead of long parallel port cabling
[13:37:07] <ssi> I have to either run multiple DB25 parallel cables through there, or monitor and kb/mouse
[13:37:12] <PetefromTn_> thats how mine is..
[13:38:08] <ssi> if I was using hm2_eth, would put the computer out front and run ethernet back
[13:38:11] <malcom2073> I'm still debating what mesa to get for my setup, I do like the ethernet for only having to run ethernet out to my control PC.
[13:38:31] <_methods> 7i76e is probably the way to go
[13:38:35] <ssi> the ethernet stuff is much newer, and the drivers are working well but still being tested I believe
[13:38:43] <malcom2073> Servo setup, so I'd have to do seperate cards heh
[13:38:47] <ssi> and you need a dedicated ethernet port for it
[13:38:51] <malcom2073> unless he comes up with a combo for 7i77 before I purchase
[13:38:59] <ssi> and different ethernet chipsets may impact performance
[13:39:06] <ssi> if you're servo, I'd stick with DB25 for now
[13:39:14] <ssi> when the 7i77E happens I may grab one and play with it
[13:41:41] <PetefromTn_> http://abcnews.go.com/US/deputy-ambushed-woods-men-saved-dog/story?id=31333283 The REAL RIN TIN TIN!! Awesome dog
[13:41:59] <ssi> lol
[13:42:48] <PetefromTn_> I love how he was STILL chewing on the bastards leg while they were trying to drive away! Kickass dog...
[13:46:33] <_methods> that's why cats get no love
[13:46:44] <_methods> except from gay dudes
[13:47:01] <cradek> hey! I resemble that remark
[13:47:05] <_methods> hahaha
[13:47:06] <PetefromTn_> Yeah I am not a cat person
[13:47:29] <PetefromTn_> you never hear about a cat who protected their owner...mostly just scratched the piss out of them LOL
[13:47:37] <_methods> if that even
[13:48:02] <_methods> and only if the criminal was in the way of the cat's favorite cushion
[13:49:25] <_methods> holy shit amazon prime free same day delivery
[13:50:19] <_methods> just not where i live :(
[13:52:52] <PetefromTn_> bastards!!
[13:54:53] <ssi> _methods: where?
[14:03:04] <ssi> The climax of unsaturation came with butyne di-nitrile, or dicyano- acetylene, N=C—C=C—C=N which had no hydrogen atoms at all, but rejoiced in the possession of three triple bonds. This was useless as a propellant —it was unstable, for one thing, and its freezing point was too high —but it has one claim to fame. Burning it with ozone in a laboratory experiment, Professor Grosse of Temple University (who always liked living dangerously) attained
[14:05:09] <CaptHindsight> (cliff hanger)
[14:05:10] <Aero-Tec> I was looking at just getting the 5i25
[14:05:26] <Aero-Tec> should I be looking at anything else as well?
[14:05:35] <ssi> Aero-Tec: get the 7i77/5i25 kit
[14:05:41] <Aero-Tec> like the 7i77
[14:05:47] <Aero-Tec> ok
[14:05:49] <Aero-Tec> why?
[14:05:56] <ssi> the 5i25 isn't remarkably useful on its own, it's the breakouts that do a lot of the work
[14:06:06] <PetefromTn_> are you doing steppers or servos?
[14:06:17] <Aero-Tec> lathe is servos
[14:06:19] <ssi> the 5i25 is just a glorified breakout board
[14:06:20] <CaptHindsight> ssi: whatever became of Professor Grosse?
[14:06:24] <Aero-Tec> mill is steppers
[14:06:44] <ssi> CaptHindsight: there's no mention of his untimely demise or hospitalization, so I imagine his reckless experimentation went unpunished :D
[14:07:09] <ssi> (the 5i25 isn't really a glorified breakout board, but without the daughtercards it behaves as such)
[14:08:02] <Aero-Tec> do I need the extra cards?
[14:08:09] <Aero-Tec> ok
[14:08:11] <ssi> 7i77/5i25 kit is the answer
[14:08:18] <Aero-Tec> say I want to redo everything
[14:08:41] <ssi> that gives you six axes of analog servo drive outputs, six encoder counter inputs, 48 gpio, and a spare smartserial port for other expansions
[14:08:50] <Aero-Tec> what do I need to get to drive my lathe with servos?
[14:08:52] <ssi> AND an additional superport on the 5i25 for another daughtercard if you so desire
[14:09:09] <ssi> you need 7i77/5i25 kit and two servo drives
[14:09:19] <ssi> and a power supply if you don't already have it
[14:09:22] <Aero-Tec> will keep my motors but will redo everything else
[14:09:32] <ssi> also if your machine is PCIe you want the 6i25 kit, not the 5i25 kit
[14:09:34] <ssi> 5i25 is PCI
[14:10:03] <Aero-Tec> ok
[14:10:09] <Aero-Tec> and that will do it?
[14:10:18] <ssi> that'll be a damn good start :D
[14:10:22] <ssi> what encoders are on your motors?
[14:10:26] <Aero-Tec> so like $700
[14:11:29] <ssi> which drives are you gonna get?
[14:11:32] <PetefromTn_> Aero-Tec I have the 5i25/7i77 combo on my Cincinatti Arrow 500 VMC and it works wonderful. It also have enough I/O to do about anything I could ever want really.
[14:12:29] <Aero-Tec> US Digital
[14:13:59] <Aero-Tec> was thinking Mesa drivers
[14:14:14] <Aero-Tec> unless there is a better option
[14:15:35] <Aero-Tec> I am very open to suggestions
[14:15:39] <ssi> need to confirm that the mesa drive is suitable for brush motors
[14:15:51] <ssi> I know all the amc brushless drives will work for brush motors, but I don't know about the mesa
[14:16:01] <ssi> I imagine so, but I'd like to hear from PCW for sure before you order them
[14:18:13] <ssi> which US digital drives are you looking at
[14:19:42] <Aero-Tec> the encoder is US Digital
[14:20:21] <Aero-Tec> looks like mesa servo drives are not the answer
[14:20:39] <Aero-Tec> I have 70V motors
[14:20:49] <CaptHindsight> AC or DC brushed motors?
[14:21:05] <Aero-Tec> at least they were supposed to be
[14:21:12] <Aero-Tec> DC brush
[14:21:37] <Aero-Tec> the amps are way to low for mesa drivers
[14:21:49] <Aero-Tec> I need more amps
[14:21:58] <CaptHindsight> how many do you need?
[14:22:01] <ssi> honestly AMC 30A8 is the ideal drive for your motors
[14:22:11] <Aero-Tec> 2 drives
[14:22:16] <ssi> i had three of them but they got burnt up :(
[14:22:23] <ssi> I would have sold them to you cheap if I still had them
[14:22:40] <Aero-Tec> how can I confirm I have 70 volt and not the 90 volt motors?
[14:22:51] <ssi> it doesn't really matter
[14:22:54] <ssi> the voltage is just a rating thing
[14:22:59] <ssi> run them at 70 if you're concerned
[14:22:59] <Aero-Tec> I would have loved to buy them
[14:23:19] <ssi> the 30A8 drive is an 80V rated drive, 30A peak 15A continuous
[14:23:47] <Aero-Tec> my 1800 watt power supply is 70
[14:23:53] <ssi> that should be fine
[14:24:10] <Aero-Tec> sounds perfect
[14:24:59] <ssi> you have no tachometers
[14:25:22] <Aero-Tec> gecko maxes out at 20 amp
[14:25:24] <ssi> you can run the 30A8 drives in current mode, or you can generate a velocity signal in hal and run them in velocity mode
[14:25:30] <ssi> probably easiest to do current mode
[14:25:32] <PetefromTn_> honestly you can run gecko drives up to 80v I think.
[14:25:45] <Aero-Tec> yes
[14:26:00] <ssi> PetefromTn_: I don't like the gecko drives because you can't run them open loop I don't think
[14:26:03] <Aero-Tec> that was why I did not order the 90 volt motors
[14:26:03] <PetefromTn_> I had them on my last conversion
[14:26:26] <PetefromTn_> true they are step/direction I think only...
[14:26:30] <ssi> Aero-Tec: you can run 90V motors with an 80v or 70v power supply
[14:26:39] <ssi> the motor doesn't care, it just limits the top speed
[14:26:45] <ssi> the speed of a servo is given in rpm per volt
[14:26:56] <Aero-Tec> so could I get a new power supply and run my 70 volt motors at 90?
[14:27:19] <ssi> well if they're 70v rated motors, then running them over their rated voltage might not be great for them
[14:27:31] <ssi> chances are good 90v through a 70v motor won't hurt anything
[14:27:37] <ssi> but 70v through a 90v motor is perfectly fine
[14:27:38] <PetefromTn_> I will be buying matched motors and drives for the CNC lathe as I did on the VMC
[14:28:25] <Aero-Tec> I would like to go brushless
[14:28:43] <Aero-Tec> do they have good torque?
[14:28:49] <PetefromTn_> AC servos kick ass....
[14:28:52] <ssi> if you think you might go brushless in the future, you might consider buying drives that'll do either
[14:29:11] <Aero-Tec> like AMC
[14:29:20] <ssi> AMC BE25A20 is a pretty good all purpose drive
[14:29:36] <ssi> up to 200V, 25A peak/12.5 continuous, brushed or brushless, encoder velocity feedback for velocity mode
[14:30:10] <Aero-Tec> 30a8 has 30 amps
[14:30:14] <ssi> yep
[14:30:23] <Aero-Tec> looks like I need more amps then volts
[14:30:30] <ssi> no, not really
[14:30:37] <ssi> your servos are 7.5A continuous I think
[14:31:04] <PetefromTn_> I don't understand I thought you were retrofitting a manual lathe?
[14:33:20] <Aero-Tec> the motor can do 38 amps peak
[14:33:36] <Aero-Tec> I did retrofit
[14:33:47] <Aero-Tec> it is operational
[14:33:51] <Aero-Tec> sort of
[14:33:52] <Aero-Tec> lol
[14:34:09] <Aero-Tec> got some things that needs a tweaking
[14:34:42] <Aero-Tec> doing Pports and gecko servo drivers right now
[14:34:55] <Aero-Tec> looking to upgrade
[14:34:58] <skunkworks> with gear head?
[14:35:06] <Aero-Tec> it needs it
[14:35:11] <Aero-Tec> yes
[14:35:17] <skunkworks> wow
[14:35:22] <Aero-Tec> like 60 rpm low
[14:35:34] <skunkworks> how are you moving the axis?
[14:35:41] <Aero-Tec> I could check
[14:35:53] <Aero-Tec> servo motors
[14:35:55] <skunkworks> (ball screw? rack?
[14:36:15] <Aero-Tec> 10-1 gearing on z and 1-1 on x
[14:36:22] <Aero-Tec> acme
[14:36:31] <Aero-Tec> the ones that came with lathe
[14:36:41] <ssi> ballscrews would help a fair bit
[14:36:46] <ssi> you lose 30% of your drive torque with acme
[14:37:03] <Aero-Tec> want to upgrade them to ball
[14:37:23] <Aero-Tec> $$$ and time
[14:37:31] <Aero-Tec> but yes I need to do that
[14:37:32] <ssi> yeah
[14:37:36] <Aero-Tec> so what first
[14:37:47] <ssi> electronics is an easy upgrade
[14:38:04] <Aero-Tec> ball upgrade or motor and electronics upgrade?
[14:38:21] <ssi> I'd do the electronics first
[14:38:54] <Aero-Tec> would be nice to get rid of backlash
[14:39:54] <Aero-Tec> I was leaning towards the elec first
[14:40:14] <Aero-Tec> but ball will need to be done ASAP as well
[14:40:26] <skunkworks> backlash can be tricky to tune...
[14:40:44] <ssi> that's true
[14:40:52] <ssi> servo systems really hate it
[14:41:22] <Aero-Tec> I have encoder on motor
[14:41:34] <Aero-Tec> so it does not see the back lash
[14:42:16] <Aero-Tec> I can see a linear encoder on the axis fighting backlash
[14:42:41] <Aero-Tec> on my system it cares not of backlash
[14:42:56] <Aero-Tec> I just tuned it into the config
[14:43:11] <ssi> yeah lathes aren't as sensitive to backlash either
[14:43:17] <ssi> they're easier to program in one direction only
[14:44:36] <ssi> He then started adding methyl- amine to the mixture, to reduce the viscosity as well as the freezing point, and finally came up with a hydrazine-aniline-methylamine mixture (regrettably called "HAM Juice")
[14:45:24] <_methods> hahah
[14:45:51] <_methods> send me some of that methyl amine
[14:46:15] <ssi> gonna cook some meth?
[14:46:20] <_methods> you can keep the ham juice though lol
[14:46:43] <_methods> no i'll just sell the methylamine hehe
[14:47:08] <_methods> just get busted for selling precursors that way
[14:47:48] <_methods> i'm a drug precursor dealer
[14:48:00] <_methods> heheh
[14:48:01] <ssi> I'm pretty sure methylamine is actually pretty easy to synthesize yourself
[14:48:40] <_methods> i'm pretty sure i won't google methylamine synthesis to find out
[14:48:44] <ssi> :)
[14:48:55] <_methods> at least not on my computer heheh
[14:49:09] <ssi> I don't care personally
[14:49:19] <ssi> "sorry, not interested in drugs, I want to make rocket fuel"
[14:49:21] <ssi> case closed :D
[14:49:32] <ssi> puts me on a DIFFERENT watch list, but I'm cool with that
[14:49:34] <_methods> rocket fuel for the brain
[14:49:59] <ssi> honestly it's looking like hybrids are the way to go these days
[14:50:19] <ssi> and polyamide rubber as fuel grain
[14:50:27] <ssi> n2o as oxidizer
[14:50:33] <_methods> oh nice google photos finally dropped google+
[14:51:05] <_methods> free unlimited photo storage
[14:51:26] <_methods> oh wow picture and video unlimited
[14:52:56] <_methods> damn you can use your android phone as a midi device now with usbc
[14:54:14] <ssi> http://aeroconsystems.com/cart/graphite-rods/assorted-fine-grain-graphite/
[14:54:18] <ssi> rocket nozzle blanks! :D
[14:54:45] <_methods> you got the rockets on da brain
[14:55:44] <PetefromTn_> are those gonna be big enough? I mean we want to meet little green men here right?
[14:57:44] <_methods> distributed nozzle technology
[14:58:06] <_methods> it takes you to the "cloud"
[15:03:06] <ssi> :D
[15:03:16] <ssi> PetefromTn_: I haven't started doing the math yet
[15:03:18] <ssi> it's gonna be tough
[15:03:42] <PetefromTn_> WE CAN DO IT!!!
[15:03:53] <PetefromTn_> Who gets the first ride?
[15:04:32] <ssi> oh boy, we're gonna need a bigger boat
[15:05:04] <PetefromTn_> boat? I thought we were building rockets hehe
[15:05:26] <ssi> so there's this
[15:05:26] <ssi> http://aeroconsystems.com/cart/hybrid-motors/rattworks-k240-hybrid-rocket-motor/
[15:05:40] <ssi> I need to figure out how much ∆v you could get out of that for a reasonable rocket based on that motor
[15:05:45] <ssi> probably not enough to get to orbit
[15:05:52] <ssi> but probably enough to get up to the edge and back
[15:08:11] <PetefromTn_> might need a couple dozen ;)
[15:09:38] <Aero-Tec> $135 for a 30A8
[15:09:48] <Aero-Tec> plus shipping
[15:09:58] <Aero-Tec> used
[15:10:53] <Aero-Tec> would love to $30 pricing much better
[15:11:02] <ssi> yeah
[15:11:12] <ssi> it seems like when I was hunting for brushless drives, those 30A8s were all over the place
[15:11:25] <Aero-Tec> is Ebay the best place to get them?
[15:13:38] <_methods> why are they talking about soccer on tv
[15:14:08] <_methods> i think they're confused on the news about what country this is
[15:15:59] <ssi> Aero-Tec: best place I've found
[15:16:04] <ssi> new, those drives are like $1500 :/
[15:16:09] <PetefromTn_> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XaI0n521C7E
[15:16:17] <ssi> so that K240 motor alone has about 1100m/s ∆v
[15:16:24] <_methods> http://www.nytimes.com/2015/05/29/sports/vladimir-putin-fifa-corruption-soccer.html?_r=0
[15:16:39] <_methods> like anyone here cares about soccer that hilarious
[15:16:54] <alex4nder> _methods: wut
[15:16:57] <_methods> you can have the world cup in russia every year for all i care
[15:17:31] <Aero-Tec> https://www.servo2go.com/product.php?ID=100313
[15:17:57] <Aero-Tec> $390
[15:18:12] <_methods> i'd rather watch that stupid game where they have the brooms and the rock on the ice
[15:18:13] <ssi> oh that's not as bad
[15:18:13] <Aero-Tec> new
[15:18:16] <ssi> still rather pay $125 :P
[15:18:27] <Aero-Tec> lol
[15:18:29] <Aero-Tec> yes
[15:18:34] <ssi> did you see those 25A20 brush drives I linked earlier?
[15:18:38] <ssi> there were two on there for like $30 each
[15:19:13] <Aero-Tec> will check them out
[15:24:33] <Aero-Tec> could not find a link
[15:24:50] <Aero-Tec> have been looking
[15:25:25] <Aero-Tec> I saw where you mentioned that drive but did not see a link
[15:25:41] <ssi> ttp://www.ebay.com/itm/ADVANCED-MOTION-CONTROLS-25A20V-LF3-BRUSH-TYPE-PWM-SERVO-AMPLIFIER/381252549958?_trksid=p2047675.c100005.m1851&_trkparms=aid%3D222007%26algo%3DSIC.MBE%26ao%3D1%26asc%3D20131003132420%26meid%3Dded6805595894297aa2019805a9ec27b%26pid%3D100005%26rk%3D1%26rkt%3D6%26sd%3D201345553334&rt=nc
[15:25:49] <ssi> http://www.ebay.com/itm/ADVANCED-MOTION-CONTROLS-25A20T-LF2-BRUSH-TYPE-PWM-SERVO-AMPLIFIER-/201345553334?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item2ee12153b6
[15:41:56] <furrywolf> ssi: how was Ignition? :)
[15:42:05] <ssi> I'm only about 45 pages in
[15:42:08] <ssi> but it's good
[15:42:33] <ssi> I'm pretty sure I'd have to be a lunatic to try to build a liquid bipropellant motor tho :P
[15:42:40] <furrywolf> also, I hate california. I bought several cans of spray paint from the local hardware store at 50% off. Their register makes them enter a birthdate for every can. because california requires it to be that way.
[15:44:09] <furrywolf> I think there's a paragraph on how they're all lunatics somewhere near the introduction. :)
[15:44:15] <ssi> yeah, they are
[15:44:18] <ssi> and i am too
[15:44:28] <ssi> but I don't have the resources to dedicate my lunacy to rocket propellants
[15:44:31] <SpeedEvil> ssi: Liquid biprop can be not _too_ bad
[15:44:40] <SpeedEvil> ssi: The key is to not use insane propellants.
[15:44:50] <ssi> it's hydrazine all the way down :D
[15:44:56] <SpeedEvil> For example, alcohol/H2O2 is pretty benign.
[15:45:01] <furrywolf> ah, but if you want your rocket to actually, you know, have a payload, you have to use insane propellants.
[15:45:05] <ssi> yep
[15:45:10] <SpeedEvil> furrywolf: well, yes and no.
[15:45:22] <SpeedEvil> furrywolf: I have a design - alas not completed for an orbital rocket.
[15:45:27] <ssi> it's gonna be immensely hard to do anything practical
[15:45:28] <SpeedEvil> It had four stages.
[15:45:29] <furrywolf> h2o2 is NOT benign. at all. it explodes for the hell of it.
[15:45:35] <SpeedEvil> furrywolf: It really doesn't.
[15:45:43] <SpeedEvil> furrywolf: It explodes for very good reason.
[15:45:56] <furrywolf> yes. it doesn't like you. a very good reason
[15:46:07] <ssi> lol
[15:46:15] <SpeedEvil> Staging can get around low performance - to a degree anyway
[15:46:20] <Aero-Tec> thanks for all the help
[15:46:27] <ssi> Aero-Tec: you bet
[15:48:47] <ssi> An alternative to RFNA was mixed acid, essentially WFNA to which had been added some 10 to 17 percent of H2SO4. Its performance was somewhat lower than that of RFNA (all that stable sulfuric acid and that heavy sulfur atom didn't help any) but its density was a little better than that of the other acid, and it was magnificently hypergolic with many fuels. (I used to take advantage of this property when somebody came into my lab looking for a job. At an
[15:49:12] <furrywolf> I want to build a beam rocket one of these days.
[15:49:22] <furrywolf> ssi: got cut off after "job. At an"
[15:49:42] <ssi> At an inconspicuous signal, one of my henchmen would drop the finger of an old rubber glove into a flask containing about 100 cc of mixed acid —and then stand back. The rubber would swell and squirm" a moment, and then a magnificent
[15:49:46] <ssi> rocket-like jet of flame would rise from he flask, with appropriate hissing noises. I could usually tell from the candidate's demeanor whether he had the sort of nerhvous system desirable in a propellant chemist.)
[15:50:39] <furrywolf> I see no reason at all why all the energy needs to be stored on the rocket. store as much of it as you can on the ground!
[15:50:57] <ssi> fuel you leave behind is fuel you don't have to lift
[15:53:07] <furrywolf> beam rockets are a good idea, imho... the simplest just pulses a laser at a target on the bottom, vaporizing it into plasma, which provides propulsion... some tests have used plasmaifying air for the first stage, no onboard fuel needed at all until it's above the atmosphere...
[15:53:29] <ssi> be awesome for a first atmo stage
[15:53:38] <ssi> but I can't imagine getting all that killin much thrust out of it
[15:53:41] <ssi> and the efficiency must be shit
[15:54:02] <furrywolf> I saw a video of an indoor test once where the test vehicle drifted sideways, and the laser proceeded to poke a hole in the roof. oops. :)
[15:54:10] <ssi> oops indeed
[15:54:28] <furrywolf> who cares about efficiency when you can have an infinitely large ground-based complex that doesn't need to be lifted? heh
[15:54:42] <ssi> laser efficiency is shitty to begin with
[15:54:55] <SpeedEvil> ssi: err - no
[15:55:05] <SpeedEvil> LASERs - the good ones are >50% efficient
[15:55:16] <ssi> which good ones?
[15:55:20] <ssi> best I'm aware of is like 10%
[15:55:26] <SpeedEvil> http://imgur.com/gallery/YQDlxr8
[15:55:28] <SpeedEvil> diode lasers
[15:55:32] <furrywolf> again, energy on the ground is much, much, much cheaper than energy going up.
[15:55:38] <SpeedEvil> true
[15:55:42] <furrywolf> even if it's 1% as efficient, it's still cheaper.
[15:55:55] <ssi> terawatt diode lasers aren't really a thing
[15:56:18] <furrywolf> yeah, a practical ground station would be a huge array of co2 lasers.
[15:56:24] <ssi> and moisture in the air is going to cause beam coherence issues for a high lift
[15:56:29] <SpeedEvil> http://www.digikey.com/product-search/download.csv?
[15:56:29] <SpeedEvil> FV=fff40015%2Cfff8007d%2C1c0002%2C1c0003%2C97c0036%2C97c0037%2C97c0038%2C97c0039%2C97c003a%2C97c003b%2C97c003c%2C97c003d%2C97c003e%2C97c003f%2C97c0040%2C97c0041%2C97c0058%2C97c0060%2C97c0065%2C97c0077%2C98000dc%2C980048a%2C9800492%2C980049d%2C98004a5%2C98004b8%2C98004d3%2C98004e3%2C98004e6%2C98004e7%2C98004f2%2C980052c%2C9800543%2C980054a%2C980056b%2C980059a%2C98005a2%2C98005b2%2C98005b5%2C98005bd%2C98005c1%2C98005cd%2C98005cf%2C98005e0%2C98005e
[15:56:29] <SpeedEvil> 4%2C98005f6%2C9800618%2C980061f%2C9800629%2C9800637%2C9800663%2C980066b%2C9800677%2C980067a%2C980067c%2C9800695%2C98006a0%2C98006b3%2C98006bb%2C98006cc%2C98006fc%2C98006fd%2C98006ff%2C9800703%2C9800712%2C9800715%2C9800749%2C9800753%2C980075b%2C980075d%2C980077c%2C980077d%2C980078a%2C9800792%2C980079d%2C98007a2%2C98007b2%2C98007bb%2C98007c2%2C98007c5%2C98007fd%2C9800811%2C9800813%2C9800816%2C9800831%2C9800839%2C980084d%2C980085e%2C9800861%2C98008
[15:56:29] <SpeedEvil> 73%2C980087b%2C9800891%2C98008a0%2C98008a9%2C98008b1%2C98008b9%2C98008c0%2C98008cf%2C98008d1%2C98008dd%2C98008e5%2C98008f3%2C9800908%2C9800937%2C980093a%2C980093b%2C9800964%2C9800978%2C980097a%2C980097e%2C980098c%2C9800994%2C98009b2%2C98009df%2C98009e0%2C98009f5%2C9800a01%2C9800a30%2C9800a3b%2C9800a55%2C9800a5e%2C9800a60%2C9800a76%2C9800a7a%2C9800a7b%2C9800a81%2C9800a84%2C9800a88%2C9800a98%2C9800a9f%2C9800aa6%2C9800ab3%2C9800ac2%2C9800ad8%2C9800
[15:56:29] <SpeedEvil> aef%2C9800af2%2C9800b23%2C9800b2e%2C9800b46%2C9800b47%2C9800d03%2C9800daf&mnonly=0&newproducts=0&ColumnSort=0&page=1&stock=1&pbfree=0&rohs=0&quantity=10&ptm=0&fid=0&pageSize=500 - meanwhile in japan
[15:56:34] <SpeedEvil> err
[15:56:39] <roycroft> stop that
[15:56:42] <SpeedEvil> http://core.ac.uk/download/pdf/4871859.pdf
[15:56:50] <SpeedEvil> meanwhile in japan
[15:56:59] <SpeedEvil> (worksafe - microwave rocket)
[15:57:16] <ssi> microwave beam is probably more tractable than laser
[15:57:19] <SpeedEvil> ~300GHz Gyrotrons at the megawatt power range are being worked on for other uses - ITAR, for example
[15:57:26] <SpeedEvil> err
[15:57:27] <SpeedEvil> ITER
[15:57:47] <ssi> ITAR is using megawatt gyrotrons to incinerate people who don't comply with export regulations
[15:58:19] <furrywolf> microwave and laser are the same idea... keep the energy source on the ground, with only enough energy onboard for actual orbital operations.
[15:58:30] <XXCoder> I would choose whatever hits air and water least.
[15:59:02] <ssi> the atmosphere is far more transparent to microwave I'm pretty sure
[15:59:14] <ssi> all I can think about is the microwave power stations in sim city
[15:59:20] <ssi> and how occasionally they'd miss and obliterate a city block
[15:59:26] <XXCoder> If I recall, it reacts quite strongly with water
[15:59:44] <XXCoder> heh I remember sceneros
[15:59:52] <XXCoder> one of em was nuclear reactor explosion
[16:00:02] <XXCoder> all I did was pause and change em to coal temp
[16:00:07] <SpeedEvil> ^above - a decent alternative use is that you can use the above to fly planes
[16:00:07] <XXCoder> then replace with water power
[16:00:46] <ssi> which above
[16:00:49] <XXCoder> ssi: simcity 2000 allows you to build hill, pump water all over it, then build hytro
[16:00:50] <furrywolf> wikipedia says a laser rocket test measured 5000s si... this is more than ten times that of chemical rockets. this means you can have a rocket that weighs about a tenth as much, given as fuel is most of the on-the-ground weight...
[16:01:05] <malcom2073> Haha ITAR gyrotrons
[16:01:17] <ssi> a 5000s beam motor would be pretty revolutionary
[16:01:18] <furrywolf> or, alternatively, for the same weight rocket, you get about ten times the payload.
[16:01:21] <XXCoder> ssi: basically free infinite power
[16:01:22] <ssi> i just wonder what sort of thrust they can do
[16:01:27] <XXCoder> just have solars as backup
[16:01:37] <furrywolf> depends on how big your laser is. :P
[16:01:47] <ssi> yeah well there's practical upper limits to that :)
[16:02:02] <XXCoder> furrywolf: nice
[16:02:09] <ssi> part of the 'efficiency' thing is the fact that lasers generate a lot of waste heat
[16:02:29] <ssi> if you have a 10% power efficient CO2 laser making 5kw, that means you have 45kw of waste heat to manage
[16:02:31] <XXCoder> I just hope we find a way to make super powerful EM drive
[16:02:41] <XXCoder> right now its great for very long term missions and little else
[16:02:50] <ssi> and that's 5kw at the OC, not 5kw at the other end of 100km of atmosphere
[16:02:58] <furrywolf> also think about the safety issue... on any type of malfunction of any kind, you just kill the lasers, and the ship parachutes down. no whoops-giant-fireball-because-the-o-ring-was-too-cold.
[16:03:29] <ssi> what about the safety concerns of "whoops the laser missed the ablative and hit the crew module"? :D
[16:03:37] <furrywolf> ssi: good thing stuff on the ground can be very large and spread out over whatever area is necessary. :P
[16:03:51] <furrywolf> ssi: easy enough to detect a beam wandering off and kill it.
[16:03:53] <XXCoder> http://www.nasaspaceflight.com/2015/04/evaluating-nasas-futuristic-em-drive/
[16:04:05] <XXCoder> its confirmed now but they still dont know WHY it works
[16:04:09] <ssi> and the practical engineering of the optics to maintain focus on a rapidly ascending moving target are pretty substantial
[16:04:25] <ssi> not shitting on the idea, it's definitely a cool idea
[16:04:28] <furrywolf> I would really, really love if the EM drive worked.
[16:04:31] <ssi> it's just tough to do at scale
[16:04:35] <XXCoder> furrywolf: it does.
[16:04:36] <furrywolf> I do not have high hopes yet, however.
[16:04:46] <XXCoder> china and NASA proved it
[16:04:58] <XXCoder> they just don't know WHY it works
[16:05:04] <furrywolf> did you actually read the paper on it? the expiremental setup was crap.
[16:05:58] <XXCoder> "After consistent reports of thrust measurements from EM Drive experiments in the US, UK, and China at thrust levels several thousand times in excess of a photon rocket, and now under hard vacuum conditions"
[16:06:31] <furrywolf> the "thrust" was so small that it could have been simply pushing itself by the earth's magnetic field. or it could have been a thermal convection pushing it, because they found out their rf source fried in vacuum, so tested it in air. and all sorts of other crap.
[16:07:11] <XXCoder> Maybe its the case but I do have high hopes for it
[16:07:54] <furrywolf> as I said, I would love it if it works. but, for know, I still have it classified long with wheels with floppy weights on the sides, and the like. :)
[16:08:01] <furrywolf> s/know/now
[16:08:06] <XXCoder> lol
[16:08:06] <furrywolf> s/long/along
[16:08:21] <XXCoder> theres so many overunity devices shit out there
[16:09:18] <SpeedEvil> XXCoder: 'proved nit'
[16:09:31] <SpeedEvil> the problem is that the error bars of the measurements don't meet
[16:09:33] <SpeedEvil> by a long way
[16:09:54] <XXCoder> SpeedEvil: did you see the update 2/3 down?
[16:09:57] <XXCoder> april 2015 one
[16:11:00] <furrywolf> I want to see a test with a meaningful amount of thrust generated. even if it means building one that's the size of a house, do it. then it needs to be tested upside down, sideways, etc, etc, to verify if the thrust is actually determined by the direction of operation, and ruling out acting against the earth's magnetic field, nearby metal objects, etc. in a vacuum.
[16:11:50] <XXCoder> its primiarly space only engine for now
[16:11:50] <furrywolf> the thrust they measured is so tiny that if the duty cycle of their rf supply was 49% instead of 50%, the little bit of dc bias in the supply wires against the earth's magnetic field would exceed the measured thrust.
[16:12:39] <SpeedEvil> The fundamental problem that this is also a free energy device.
[16:12:57] <XXCoder> SpeedEvil: uh no
[16:12:59] <SpeedEvil> Which raises the bar somewhat against believability
[16:13:09] <XXCoder> it requires MASSIVE power inpt
[16:13:54] <SpeedEvil> If your device produces a constant amount of thrust, then at v=power / thrust, then you have breakeven.
[16:14:12] <XXCoder> well right now its massive power to get small trust
[16:14:13] <SpeedEvil> At 2v, you have twice the power out you put in.
[16:14:14] <XXCoder> thrust
[16:14:31] <XXCoder> ksp star trek heh
http://www.kerbalcomics.com/comics/2013-07-22-episode-28-star-dreck.png
[16:15:39] <SpeedEvil> The chinese thrust - 720mN/2500W - would reach breakeven at ~4000m/s or so
[16:26:56] <furrywolf> grrr
[16:26:58] <furrywolf> � furrywolf doesn't see any new tests, just a new computer simulation of how it might work if physics didn't work the way they've been observed to work
[16:26:58] <furrywolf> <furrywolf> I'm not going to say it can't work, but I want better tests before I believe it.
[16:27:05] <furrywolf> <furrywolf> I didn't see any efforts to eliminate interactions with the earth's magnetic field in earlier tests... even simple things like rotating it 90 degrees and confirming the thrust changes 90 degrees.
[16:27:12] <Deejay> gn8
[16:28:32] <furrywolf> ok, why the hell when I googled for nasa em drive test in vacuum, google suggested "vagina" when I typed the v? lol
[16:37:59] <PetefromTn_> I'm sorry but that is seriously cool stuff.
[16:39:38] <furrywolf> it's seriously cool, if it's seriously real. :)
[16:40:10] <Computer_barf> oh yeah thats when i come in
[16:40:22] <Computer_barf> just after something seriously cool
[16:40:25] <furrywolf> heh
[16:40:41] <furrywolf> we were discussing the em drive. I was saying I want more tests before I believe it.
[16:41:09] <PetefromTn_> sounds like they have already proven it works in some form but as with anything this new they have a long way to go.
[16:41:12] <Computer_barf> electromagnetic drive?
[16:41:16] <furrywolf> yes
[16:41:34] <Computer_barf> propulsion or?
[16:41:54] <furrywolf> yes
[16:42:29] <Computer_barf> i think i remember that last being mentioned to me in the 90's
[16:43:08] <Computer_barf> i imagine the bottleneck is possessing unlimited energy
[16:43:14] <PetefromTn_> BBL
[16:43:30] <SpeedEvil> furrywolf: that's because there is _really_ high tech dildo work going on at NASA.
[16:43:36] <SpeedEvil> (the v thing)
[16:44:49] <furrywolf> lol
[16:45:29] <SpeedEvil> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=18zPvXjnCTI
[16:45:35] <SpeedEvil> Exact width dado spacer
[16:47:14] <furrywolf> well, generally everything they send to space is extremely expensive... and they have a policy of no married couples... so presumably there's been some very expensive toys built at nasa somewhere...
[16:48:10] <SpeedEvil> That's what the 3d printer is really for.
[16:49:55] <furrywolf> eww. the output of a standard 3d printer is not something suitable for that use. rough finish and porus.
[16:50:57] <ssi> yeah
[16:51:02] <ssi> defniitely not dishwasher safe :D
[16:52:02] <furrywolf> meh. I should be doing useful things, but I'm completely exhausted today.
[16:52:04] * SpeedEvil wishes he had 4 good hours in a day.
[16:52:14] <SpeedEvil> I would love to try a 3d glass printer
[16:54:35] <furrywolf> extrusion or sls?
[16:55:43] <SpeedEvil> extrusion
[16:55:51] <SpeedEvil> basically your standard 3d printer
[16:56:01] <SpeedEvil> but with the bed glowing a dull red.
[16:56:08] <furrywolf> probably need to keep the whole workpiece hot to get good fusion
[16:56:09] <SpeedEvil> (and the extruder a cheery yellow)
[17:03:01] <malcom2073> That'd be really cool
[17:03:21] <malcom2073> I still liked the mig welder printer
[17:06:17] <ssi> man
[17:06:30] <ssi> I've told you guys about my big breakthrough in 3d printing idea right?
[17:06:37] <malcom2073> oh boy heh
[17:06:54] <ssi> the big problem with 3d printing is the typical extruder type FDM machines have piss poor inter-layer cohesion
[17:07:09] <ssi> and the strength along the layer plane is shit
[17:07:17] <ssi> I've come up with a scheme that fixes all that
[17:07:26] <ssi> produces better, stronger parts
[17:07:28] <malcom2073> Well yeah, they're not supposed to be structural pieces
[17:07:33] <malcom2073> But what's your solution?
[17:07:40] <ssi> you start with a solid block of a strong material, like plastic or aluminum
[17:07:46] <ssi> and you use a rotating blade to selectively remove bits of it
[17:07:50] <_methods> hehe
[17:07:53] <ssi> and eventually it forms your part
[17:07:57] <ssi> I call it "reverse 3d printing"
[17:08:02] <ssi> I came up with it a couple months ago
[17:08:07] <ssi> but now I'm thinking I need to launch a kickstarter
[17:08:12] <_methods> buwhahahha
[17:08:17] <ssi> I'm going to build a shitty little x2 cnc machine
[17:08:18] <ssi> and kickstart it
[17:08:21] <ssi> I'll be rich
[17:08:24] <malcom2073> You'd make billions
[17:08:33] <_methods> yeah those 3d printer tards will buy anything
[17:08:48] <Tom_itx> sam's club sells 3d printers now
[17:08:56] <_methods> i rest my case
[17:09:01] <Tom_itx> yeah
[17:09:02] <SpeedEvil> http://3dprint.com/64464/con3d-3d-printed-sofa/
[17:09:14] <SpeedEvil> Slightly missing the whole point of a sofa
[17:09:27] <Tom_itx> that one in the square box... i forget what it's called
[17:09:27] <_methods> i heard they're going to have 3d printing in the special olympics this year
[17:09:34] <ssi> I think YOURE missing the point of a sofa
[17:09:42] <ssi> which is that the PATRIARCHY DEMANDS THAT WE PAY FOR THEM
[17:09:52] <ssi> I'm trying to put the power back in the hands of the proletariat, maaaan
[17:10:11] <SpeedEvil> The patriachy? Would that be the SofaKing?
[17:10:16] <ssi> YUP
[17:10:24] <ssi> SOFAKING OPPRESSIVE
[17:11:41] <malcom2073> fwiw ssi: It's been done
[17:11:58] <ssi> which part?
[17:12:01] <ssi> the reverse 3d printing?
[17:12:03] <_methods> i'm gonna 3d print a steel table for my surface plate this wknd with my mig welder
[17:12:07] <malcom2073> Someone took a 3d printer, stuck a dremel on it, and marketed it as a "portable factory, make molds for injection moulding!"
[17:12:08] <ssi> I'll cut whatever motherfucker stole my idea
[17:12:09] <malcom2073> and boom
[17:12:13] <_methods> and some structural tubing
[17:12:22] <PoolShark__> reverse 3d printing?
[17:12:22] <malcom2073> didn't mention the word mill or cnc anywhere
[17:12:36] <_methods> portable factory
[17:13:09] <_methods> is that like one of those plastic sphincter inserts that shape your turds
[17:13:15] <_methods> star turd
[17:13:20] <_methods> heart turd
[17:13:22] <PoolShark__> think play-doh
[17:13:34] <_methods> hehe
[17:13:34] <ssi> who needs the fun factory when you have the turd factory
[17:13:43] <PoolShark__> I had turd-formers for play-doh that could do dozens of shapes
[17:14:01] <_methods> turdformers
[17:14:01] <PoolShark__> ssi could probably reverse-3d print some
[17:14:08] <_methods> the next michael bay movie
[17:14:11] <PoolShark__> using his new revolutionary process
[17:14:56] <ssi> yeah but finding large billets of high quality turdaloy(tm) is difficult and expensive
[17:15:16] <_methods> straight from china lol
[17:15:17] <PoolShark__> ssi: they're plentiful where I am.. plenty of very large BBQ eaters to produce them
[17:15:29] <ssi> nah it needs further refining
[17:15:32] <ssi> maybe a little polishing
[17:15:43] <_methods> i used to do that
[17:15:48] <malcom2073> Leave poland out of this
[17:15:50] <PoolShark__> a 3d turd polisher.. I like it
[17:15:53] <_methods> actually who am i kidding i still do that
[17:15:54] <ssi> http://www.bradsucks.net/images/9d1088fe69e5_121BB/image.png
[17:16:10] <zeeshan> ] <malcom2073> Someone took a 3d printer, stuck a dremel on it, and marketed it as a "portable factory, make molds for injection moulding!"
[17:16:11] <_methods> polished dinosaur turd
[17:16:11] <zeeshan> LOL
[17:16:23] <malcom2073> zeeshan: I'm not kidding. These are the people who make me embarassed to say I have a 3d printer.
[17:16:35] <ssi> hey did I tell you guys I got my 3d printer back?
[17:16:38] <ssi> it's only slightly melted
[17:16:39] <zeeshan> yea unfortunately the 3d printer crowd are terrible
[17:16:41] <ssi> I think it's recoverable
[17:16:42] <_methods> just because you have a 3d printer doesn't mean you need to defend them
[17:16:56] <zeeshan> methods is like honda civics
[17:16:57] <ssi> 3d printers can be VERY useful
[17:17:02] <zeeshan> if you own one, people automatically think youre a ricer
[17:17:03] <zeeshan> :P
[17:17:07] <ssi> I used mine to design and test mirror mounts for the laser
[17:17:09] <PoolShark__> personally I think a 3d $device is not a 3d $device unless it can burn your house down
[17:17:17] <_methods> hahah
[17:17:18] <ssi> eventually i would have machined permanent ones out of aluminum
[17:17:18] <zeeshan> ssi is an expert in that
[17:17:20] <zeeshan> :P
[17:17:23] * zeeshan hides
[17:17:24] <malcom2073> I use mine to prototype electronics enclosures and mounts, they're great
[17:17:26] <PoolShark__> zeeshan: yes I know lol
[17:17:26] <ssi> :)
[17:17:45] <_methods> no they are the end of manufacturing as you know it and they will be on every street corner
[17:17:49] <_methods> lol
[17:17:51] <ssi> I need to get a friend to print me a new set of mendelmax plastic parts and overhaul mine
[17:17:55] <malcom2073> I actually just finished building an enclosure for my electronics
[17:17:57] <ssi> it's just a little saggy, it's still good :D
[17:18:10] <malcom2073> Whole thing weighs upwards of 100lbs now :/
[17:18:11] <ssi> the prusa I guess got pitched
[17:18:14] <_methods> i gave mine mendelmax2 away
[17:18:22] <_methods> i just collected dust lol
[17:18:26] <PoolShark__> I keep telling my company that we should just print our electricity meters instead of going through all of those complex processes, but they won't listen
[17:18:27] <ssi> shit where was I?
[17:18:28] <zeeshan> fakin electronics get heavy
[17:18:29] <_methods> i made some turd cutters
[17:18:30] <DaViruz> _methods: don't forget they will be able to replicate themselves!
[17:18:31] <ssi> I'd have put it at work
[17:18:31] <ssi> heh
[17:18:49] <DaViruz> (or at least about 5% of the parts that goes into it)
[17:18:49] <_methods> like terminators
[17:18:49] <malcom2073> zeeshan: I switched to using a linear supply for my steppers
[17:19:02] <DaViruz> 5% by numbers, 0.5% by weight
[17:19:02] <malcom2073> And a steel case, so yeah heh, the electronics box alone weighs 30lbs
[17:19:09] <_methods> hehe
[17:19:09] <DaViruz> but it's still significant!
[17:19:17] <_methods> they are relevant
[17:19:29] <zeeshan> my enclosure is close to 180lb
[17:19:29] <ssi> DaViruz: I love the idiots that claim we'll be able to 3d print stepper motors any day now
[17:19:31] <zeeshan> for the cnc mill
[17:19:35] <malcom2073> They're 3d printing rack and pinion now
[17:19:38] <_methods> i think we make fun of 3d printers in here more than we talk about linuxcnc
[17:19:40] <malcom2073> to reduce the number of non printed parts
[17:19:44] <ssi> zeeshan: I have no idea what my enclosure weighs but I'm sure it's substantial
[17:19:48] <ssi> the machine weighs 10,000lb
[17:19:53] <malcom2073> You've not seen the 3d printed stepper motor?
[17:20:00] <DaViruz> ssi: wow, i didn't realise the claims were THAT bad :)
[17:20:07] <zeeshan> i believe you :P
[17:20:16] <ssi> malcom2073: I'm sure such a thing can be done, but not practically
[17:20:22] <ssi> I had a 3d printed automatic transmission
[17:20:23] <malcom2073> Well yeah
[17:20:25] <ssi> I wouldn't build a car around one
[17:20:28] <DaViruz> printing the windings in place
[17:20:31] <malcom2073> I got halfway through printing that one heh
[17:20:31] <DaViruz> complete with insulation
[17:21:02] <PoolShark__> I have an idea
[17:21:27] <ssi> this whole thing came up because PoolShark__ sent me a link about a "laser 3d printer"
[17:21:36] <ssi> turns out the guy was just using a laser cutter to cut leather, and prepunch the lacing holes
[17:21:36] <malcom2073> I need to finish wiring the whole thing back up, got a backlog of parts to print heh
[17:21:39] <ssi> and making man purses
[17:21:41] <PoolShark__> lol
[17:21:45] <malcom2073> Lol
[17:21:48] <ssi> that's not a fucking 3d printer
[17:21:51] <ssi> that's not revolutionary
[17:22:05] <ssi> that's just coming up with a clever way to use traditional manufacturing technologies to streamline assembly
[17:22:16] <ssi> that's pretty much what any manufacturing guy worth his salary does every day
[17:22:28] <PoolShark__> make a 3d printer software suite to design and print dildos to the user's specifications
[17:22:33] <PoolShark__> and kickstart that
[17:22:37] <zeeshan> 3d printing is like
[17:22:38] <zeeshan> dlp
[17:22:38] <ssi> lol that came up already
[17:22:39] <zeeshan> sls
[17:22:44] <zeeshan> fdm
[17:22:49] <zeeshan> thats about it
[17:22:52] <ssi> here, remember these?
[17:22:52] <ssi> https://pbs.twimg.com/media/BxXKXHtIIAAZJ_n.jpg:large
[17:23:01] <ssi> I made those using my "Laser 3d printer"
[17:23:06] <ssi> that "prints speaker boxes out of wood"
[17:23:10] <malcom2073> lol
[17:23:18] <_methods> first 3d printer i used cut tape and layed down layers of tape
[17:23:22] <PoolShark__> user could make all kinds of protrusions in all kinds of different places
[17:23:23] <_methods> lol
[17:23:45] <malcom2073> there is a 3d printer that uses paper as the layers
[17:23:45] <DaViruz> plywood jigsaw parts can be pretty nice
[17:23:57] <malcom2073> cuts out each layer out of a sheet
[17:24:04] <ssi> PoolShark__: furrywolf's primary objection to that idea was the surface finish was detrimental to user experience and porosity was unsanitary :)
[17:24:13] <PoolShark__> ssi: PVC dip
[17:24:26] <_methods> omg don't give them any tips
[17:24:28] <ssi> second operations are for traditional manufacturing geezers
[17:24:28] <_methods> literally
[17:25:05] <PoolShark__> then include a liquid PVC spray nozzle on the print head, or just print it in PVC
[17:25:17] <_methods> omg revolutionary
[17:25:21] <_methods> shut the front door
[17:25:27] <PoolShark__> but better to sputter since it'll have more uniform coverage
[17:25:28] <_methods> lets kickstart this
[17:25:43] <ssi> _methods: not until after we kickstart my portable factory
[17:25:46] <_methods> we'll package free turd cutters with it
[17:25:47] <malcom2073> I wonder why there aren't more cnc mig welders "3d printers" popping up.
[17:25:49] <DaViruz> ssi: except all the carving, filing, sanding etc that goes in to using a reprap-style part even remotely usable
[17:25:52] <malcom2073> practicality never stopped anyone
[17:25:52] <ssi> malcom2073: they're around
[17:25:56] <ssi> I saw one in person last year
[17:25:59] <malcom2073> ssi: I'e only seen like two
[17:26:07] <_methods> because all the real players are using laser
[17:26:14] <_methods> like okuma and dmg/mori
[17:26:21] <ssi> lasers are expensive
[17:26:24] <malcom2073> Yeah, but that's not practical for us non-real players
[17:26:26] <ssi> and they don't play nicely with houses
[17:26:32] <PoolShark__> oh well I gotta go eat
[17:26:37] <_methods> yeah not for hobby users
[17:28:03] <zeeshan> 3d print mig welder
[17:28:04] <zeeshan> is a silly idea
[17:28:09] <ssi> it is
[17:28:12] <zeeshan> asap youve tried to lay a mig weld yoruself
[17:28:14] <zeeshan> you'd know why
[17:28:19] <ssi> makes horrible ugly parts
[17:28:27] <zeeshan> if anything it should be 3d print tig welder
[17:28:33] <zeeshan> you'd have a lot better quality parts
[17:28:41] <malcom2073> That requires more than 3 axis control though
[17:28:45] <zeeshan> haha
[17:28:52] <zeeshan> fuck you guys dont steal my idea
[17:28:55] * zeeshan kickstarters it
[17:28:57] <malcom2073> Lol
[17:28:59] <ssi> HURRY
[17:29:02] <zeeshan> ITS ON THERE
[17:29:09] * malcom2073 races zeeshan
[17:29:20] <ssi> I did a kickstarter once
[17:29:21] <ssi> it was fun
[17:29:25] <ssi> sorta
[17:29:28] <ssi> sorta not fun
[17:29:33] <zeeshan> what for
[17:29:35] <ssi> music
[17:29:39] <zeeshan> ah
[17:29:53] <ssi> https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/cboehmig/used-for-comparisons-new-album-the-great-divide
[17:30:25] <ssi> I feel like the kickstarter gold rush is largely over
[17:31:31] <malcom2073> Eh, getting a kickstarter isn't really hitting a gold mine unless you're in it to pump and dump anyway
[17:35:50] <_methods> just add kittens to whatever you're kikin
[17:36:09] <_methods> the kickstarter/3d printer people can't resist kittens
[17:37:52] <Computer_barf> so your telling us you hate kittens?
[17:38:03] <Computer_barf> that you punch them in the face?
[17:38:13] <zeeshan> sounds like methods
[17:38:15] <zeeshan> bitter methods
[17:38:24] <ssi> we should explore alternative methods
[17:38:28] <_methods> hahah
[17:38:31] <zeeshan> :D
[17:38:49] <_methods> i feed my dog kittens
[17:38:59] <ssi> is your dog named "kittens"?
[17:39:01] <malcom2073> What's a dog kitten?
[17:39:10] <malcom2073> (catdog!)
[17:39:16] <_methods> cat mittens
[17:39:25] <_methods> kittens
[17:39:41] <ssi> ok totally seriously going home
[17:39:54] <_methods> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5fP4emqw7O4
[17:40:06] <_methods> kitten mittens
[17:40:08] <_methods> kickstart that
[17:42:08] <malcom2073> I thought that was going to be along the lines of "kitten quadcopter"
[17:42:34] <Tom_itx> kittens in a blender
[17:43:18] <_methods> thes are all great kickstarter ideas
[17:43:47] <_methods> you've embraced the add kittens kickstarter philosophy lol
[17:44:52] <_methods> on a almost on topic not but not quite
[17:45:01] <_methods> casters that don't pick up chips?
[17:45:23] <_methods> besides steel casters
[17:46:27] <_methods> now this is funny
[17:46:30] <_methods> http://www.practicalmachinist.com/vb/general/rolling-stand-bridgeport-234964/
[17:46:38] <_methods> rolling bridgeport
[17:48:25] <Tom_itx> i'm of the opinion that a machine should be leveled and leadded in place
[17:48:49] <Tom_itx> i doubt they do that much anymore
[17:49:10] <Valen> using lead seems like a not great plan as a rule
[17:49:20] <Valen> they use grout to do that I believe?
[17:49:34] <_methods> yeah machine grout
[17:49:43] <Tom_itx> they used to rope the machine and pour lead around it
[17:49:47] <_methods> not the guys in that thread though lol
[17:49:55] <_methods> they just use 2x4's
[17:50:09] * Tom_itx smacks them with said 2 x 4's
[17:50:30] <_methods> Casters under a Bridgeport can't work any worse than the ones I have under my shaper -- although they do work rather poorly.
[17:50:36] <_methods> hahahahhahha
[17:50:40] <_methods> funniest post evah
[17:51:00] <_methods> man that's a sig post if ever
[17:52:33] <Valen> I've been working out how much our new router is going to deform when the concrete under it moves ;->
http://i.imgur.com/Uxfb4Oe.png
[17:52:57] <Valen> (its all made of 65x65x3mm tube)
[17:53:31] <Valen> .1 of a mm with 2G acceleration of the head + gravity and one leg not touching
[17:53:43] <Valen> should be ok for a wood machine methinks
[17:56:51] <SpeedEvil> Valen: you can avoid that
[17:57:00] <SpeedEvil> you make it three legged
[17:57:46] <Valen> thought about it, would probably need a lot more steel
[17:58:05] <Valen> I'm figuring we'll design it to be easy to re-align the rails
[17:59:15] <malcom2073> Why leveled?
[18:01:36] <malcom2073> Image in that thread:
http://i477.photobucket.com/albums/rr139/jgrady1982/DSC00528.jpg
[18:01:40] <malcom2073> Someone poo'ed their pants
[18:06:32] <SpeedEvil> many levels of fail.
[18:07:58] <SpeedEvil> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BX1ZO1cYh5c
[18:08:00] <SpeedEvil> reminds me of
[18:11:16] <malcom2073> When we were unloading my mill, my two buddies just got behind it and shoved, slid it down the ramp to the floor
[18:11:41] <malcom2073> I wanted to take it slowly, I don't think they quite grasped how top heavy and... well.... heavy it was
[18:11:44] <malcom2073> But it didn't fail
[18:12:57] <SpeedEvil> yeah - mills and stuff - once they're on a >2 degree or so slope are in the 'your puny human muscles do nothing'
[18:12:58] <SpeedEvil> range
[18:13:13] <malcom2073> Should've done it like this:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NmiKlet-vC8
[18:39:06] <Valen> that last one had no reo in it
[18:39:14] <Valen> doesn't matter what they did methinks that'd happen
[20:16:41] <furrywolf> grrrr. I hate paint. I put a coat of paint on my post hole auger adapter last night. I just put another one on now. It fucking crinkled. Remind me to never, ever buy this paint again.
[20:17:26] <Tom_itx> or coat it sooner
[20:17:55] <furrywolf> Sooner would have been the middle of the night, or while I was at work.
[20:18:09] <Tom_itx> put it in your lunch box
[20:24:12] <_methods> lol
[20:24:26] <_methods> good way to get drug tested
[20:24:42] <_methods> is that gold paint in your lunchbox?
[20:31:46] <furrywolf> ?
[20:44:54] <Aero-Tec> how does one know when a parting carbide needs replacing
[20:45:07] <Aero-Tec> before it goes bang
[20:45:26] <Aero-Tec> also a threading carbide
[20:45:48] <Tom_itx> look at it under a scope
[20:46:04] <Tom_itx> if it looks like crap, it probably is
[20:46:18] <Aero-Tec> the threading one looks sharp and good but I have to adjust things to keep it with in tolerance
[20:46:24] <Aero-Tec> they are looking good
[20:47:08] <Aero-Tec> I have had them look good and go bang
[20:47:46] <Aero-Tec> mind you that was aluminum and no cutting fluid so that may have been the problem
[20:48:04] <Aero-Tec> I found cutting fluid to help tons
[20:48:05] <furrywolf> if you can see light on the edge, it's too round. or at least that's my half-assed way of guesstimating sharpness of other things.
[20:48:11] <_methods> parting sux you never know when shit will go wrong
[20:48:58] <Aero-Tec> new carbides will be more rounded then I thought they should be
[20:49:12] <_methods> you really have to listen
[20:49:36] <_methods> i'll usually here when a parting tool is going to go before anything else
[20:49:58] <_methods> s/here/hear
[20:50:09] <Aero-Tec> what are you listening for?
[20:50:16] <_methods> depends on the part
[20:50:28] <Aero-Tec> 0.087 width
[20:50:36] <_methods> but usually like a gravelly sound and an increase in spindle load
[20:50:49] <furrywolf> speaking of carbide, I got some carbide sawzall blades a couple days ago. never seen them before. not ones with brazed-on teeth - I already have some of those - but ones with a solid carbide strip along the bottom of the blade with the teeth ground into it.
[20:50:52] <Aero-Tec> I do alum 416 and 12l14
[20:50:55] <_methods> it won't sound as "smooth"
[20:51:05] <Aero-Tec> 12L14
[20:51:21] <_methods> isn't that easy to machine aluminum?
[20:51:22] <Aero-Tec> 416 does not sound great at the best of times
[20:51:32] <Aero-Tec> can be
[20:51:54] <_methods> i'm used to 5052 and 6061
[20:51:59] <Aero-Tec> but parting can gull and then your screwed
[20:52:11] <_methods> don't get a whole lot of that fancy easy to machine stuff
[20:52:23] <Aero-Tec> the cutting fluid makes a work of diff
[20:52:34] <furrywolf> anyone have any experience with these carbide sawzall blades? how does the solid carbide strip not crack instantly when the blade flexxes?
[20:52:57] <_methods> is this cnc or manual parting?
[20:53:04] <Aero-Tec> cnc
[20:53:16] <_methods> and no flood coolant?
[20:53:23] <Aero-Tec> lol
[20:53:27] <Aero-Tec> not yet
[20:53:36] <Aero-Tec> home brew conversion
[20:53:40] <_methods> ahhh
[20:53:45] <Aero-Tec> needs flooding
[20:53:49] <_methods> well it's hard to say on a little machine
[20:53:54] <_methods> too many variables there
[20:54:07] <_methods> lots of slop in the system usually
[20:54:07] <Aero-Tec> not so little
[20:54:23] <Aero-Tec> 60 inch bed
[20:54:27] <_methods> oh
[20:54:31] <Aero-Tec> so not real small
[20:54:38] <Aero-Tec> 3 ph motor
[20:54:38] <_methods> well get some coolant on that then lol
[20:54:43] <Aero-Tec> 3 hp
[20:54:50] <Aero-Tec> not ph
[20:55:12] <Aero-Tec> for some shops that would be their small lathe
[20:55:19] <Aero-Tec> if they had one that small
[20:55:21] <_methods> yeah
[20:55:31] <_methods> bench lathe
[20:55:43] <Aero-Tec> just saying for a home shop not so small
[20:56:21] <_methods> well that rules out the chinese harbor freight lathe parting issues lol
[20:56:46] <Aero-Tec> what problem do they have?
[20:56:55] <Aero-Tec> chatter?
[20:57:03] <_methods> flex,backlash,sucking
[20:57:07] <_methods> hehe
[20:57:11] <Aero-Tec> lol
[20:58:14] <Aero-Tec> for parting
[20:58:39] <Aero-Tec> what is the best height to set the tool?
[20:58:41] <furrywolf> what mental failure causes some webdesigners to decide to reimplement scroll bars in javascript? amex seems to have hired one of them. they don't scroll.
[20:58:43] <_methods> parting is probably the most difficult thing you can do besides tapping
[20:59:01] <_methods> i set mine just barely below centerline on a manual lathe
[20:59:10] <_methods> on a cnc i set it directly on centerline
[20:59:22] <Aero-Tec> ok
[20:59:28] <Aero-Tec> will check mine
[20:59:51] <_methods> if you did a conversion and you're using a standard toolpost i'd set just below center
[21:00:15] <Aero-Tec> quick change post
[21:00:23] <_methods> yeah i'd treat it like a manual
[21:00:33] <Aero-Tec> how low?
[21:00:40] <_methods> are you sure your toolpost is square to the work too?
[21:00:49] <Aero-Tec> yes
[21:00:53] <_methods> maybe .01" or so
[21:01:04] <_methods> .01" or less
[21:01:17] <Aero-Tec> it is a good size parting holder
[21:01:31] <Aero-Tec> not the cheap low end tool
[21:01:36] <_methods> you don't want it to be too far below or the work will really ride over
[21:02:23] <furrywolf> I don't have a parting tool holder for my shoptask... will need to get one.
[21:02:28] <_methods> you using and inserted parting blade?
[21:02:42] <_methods> s/and/an
[21:03:09] <Aero-Tec> new grip blade and carbide
[21:03:20] <Aero-Tec> in a holder
[21:03:33] <_methods> grip blade?
[21:04:23] <Aero-Tec> the brand is new grip if mem serves me
[21:04:49] <Aero-Tec> over a inch deep
[21:04:50] <_methods> blade holder that holds a small carbide insert?
[21:04:56] <Aero-Tec> yes
[21:05:01] <_methods> k
[21:05:36] <_methods> how far is your workpiece stickin out of the chuck and how close to the chuck are you trying to part
[21:05:58] <Aero-Tec> so very ridged
[21:06:25] <Aero-Tec> right now about 0.5 from collet chuck
[21:06:30] <_methods> i try to keep my blade as far back in the toolpost as possible and part as close to the chuck as possible
[21:06:34] <Aero-Tec> 0.5 inch
[21:06:37] <_methods> ah good collet chuck
[21:06:50] <_methods> well that all sounds good
[21:07:00] <Aero-Tec> the tool is not out far
[21:07:20] <_methods> good
[21:07:23] <Aero-Tec> cutting up to 1 inch stock
[21:07:37] <_methods> well that should be easy
[21:07:39] <Aero-Tec> down to 5/8
[21:07:51] <Aero-Tec> yes for the most part
[21:08:12] <furrywolf> someone I know tried parting a hardened axle shaft two weeks ago. even with carbide, he gave up.
[21:08:15] <Aero-Tec> just wondering how far to push the carbide before replacing
[21:08:43] <Aero-Tec> that sounds expensive
[21:08:46] <Aero-Tec> ouch
[21:08:52] <_methods> well for me it depends on the part, and the tooling
[21:09:06] <Aero-Tec> broken blades and carbides
[21:09:07] <_methods> if it's a cheap part and cheap tooling i'll push it till it explodes
[21:09:20] <Aero-Tec> lol
[21:09:30] <_methods> but if it's a one off part and i don't have any more inserts i'll baby it
[21:09:35] <Aero-Tec> good tool
[21:09:39] <Aero-Tec> cheap part
[21:09:53] <_methods> then i would ride the median
[21:09:54] <_methods> heheh
[21:10:03] <Aero-Tec> your a big help
[21:10:04] <_methods> stay near by and listen
[21:10:14] <_methods> how many parts?
[21:10:25] <Aero-Tec> got 140 to do
[21:10:31] <_methods> ah good
[21:10:32] <Aero-Tec> so not a big run
[21:10:42] <_methods> well big enough to get a feel for the sound
[21:11:08] <_methods> you doing it without coolant though?
[21:11:17] <Aero-Tec> had to keep switching from 416 to 12L14
[21:11:26] <Aero-Tec> cutting fluid
[21:11:40] <_methods> carbide should be fine without coolant
[21:11:50] <Aero-Tec> I could drip coolant
[21:12:01] <_methods> it's up to you on that one
[21:12:01] <Aero-Tec> got it there for the drilling
[21:12:13] <_methods> if you're using it for drilling i'd keep using it for parting
[21:12:36] <Aero-Tec> instead of cutting fluid?
[21:12:53] <_methods> either one
[21:13:08] <Aero-Tec> I steal the coolant from the mill
[21:13:20] <Aero-Tec> squirt bottle
[21:13:30] <_methods> yeah
[21:14:08] <Aero-Tec> well thanks for the feed back
[21:14:17] <_methods> yeah sorry i'm not too much help
[21:14:25] <_methods> it's one of those things you get a feel for
[21:14:35] <_methods> hard to explain
[21:14:44] <Aero-Tec> after a number of bangs
[21:14:47] <_methods> yeah
[21:14:59] <_methods> well when you're babying 10-12 operators
[21:15:05] <_methods> you get an ear for things
[21:15:11] <_methods> when they will go boom
[21:15:13] <Aero-Tec> hard on holder blade
[21:15:27] <Aero-Tec> lol
[21:16:03] <_methods> i can hear an insert gettin ready to go from 500 yards lol
[21:17:53] <Aero-Tec> can you said you had to listen carefully
[21:18:18] <_methods> you'll know when you hear it especially in your garage
[21:18:19] <Aero-Tec> sounds like it gets real loud
[21:18:28] <_methods> harder in a shop with multiple machines running
[21:18:45] <Aero-Tec> so how long from sound to bang?
[21:18:50] <Aero-Tec> about
[21:18:56] <_methods> quick
[21:19:03] <Aero-Tec> I know it will not always be the same
[21:19:14] <_methods> you won't have much time but it will sound progressively worse
[21:19:24] <Aero-Tec> quick, like seconds?
[21:19:27] <_methods> yeah
[21:20:03] <_methods> when parting i try to stay near the machine unless it's a part i've done millions of
[21:20:20] <_methods> parting and tapping
[21:20:30] <Aero-Tec> so how do you stop in mid cnc cut and change carbide?
[21:20:52] <Aero-Tec> I was hoping to finish parting then change
[21:20:52] <_methods> well if i think it's gonna blow up i'll estop
[21:21:12] <_methods> but if it's just going bad and i have time i'll stop it and change the insert
[21:21:24] <Aero-Tec> cool
[21:21:32] <Aero-Tec> thanks
[21:21:35] <_methods> np
[21:21:40] <Aero-Tec> most helpful
[21:21:48] <Tom_itx> or run like hell
[21:21:54] <_methods> heheh
[21:21:59] <_methods> that too
[21:30:25] <witnit> 9:58:28 PM - Aero-Tec: so how do you stop in mid cnc cut and change carbide?
[21:30:25] <witnit> what do you mean by this? like hit pause?
[21:31:56] <witnit> unless its a tap i just hit stop and jog machine, then run program from that line out
[21:42:38] <furrywolf> will linuxcnc automagically resume an operation if you stop and jog somewhere else?
[21:51:55] <malcom2073> Sure, but if you've joged somewhere that it'll hit the part moving back, it'll hit it
[21:52:31] <malcom2073> Also, you can't adjust offsets during an operation, so you can't pause, jog off, change tools, rezero Z, and continue.
[21:53:36] <furrywolf> hrmm. adjusting offsets would be a very useful thing to do during an operation. lol
[21:54:01] <malcom2073> Yeah I agree, there was a mod that fixed that somewhere....
[21:54:10] <malcom2073> I've met with resistance previously when suggesting it though
[21:54:35] <furrywolf> flashcut (what my sherline runs) will let you pause, step forwards/backwards, etc... and then fail miserably about 10% of the time. it'll work enough of the time you'll try doing it, but fail often enough to make you want to kill it. like every other part of flashcut.
[21:55:11] <malcom2073> What do you mean fail, like execute the wrong line of gcode?
[21:55:53] <furrywolf> continue from the wrong step, crash, randomly do a move into something, give a message saying you can't continue, start the program over instead of continuing,... flashcut is BUGGY.
[21:56:00] <malcom2073> Heh whups
[21:56:04] <malcom2073> That's unfortunate
[21:56:35] <furrywolf> I'm stuck with an ancient win95 version because they tie hardware versions to software versions, so they can force you to send them $400 every time you want your bugs fixed.
[21:56:50] <furrywolf> they've likely fixed many of the bugs, but I'm not sending them cash to find out.
[21:56:59] <malcom2073> Sounds like retrofit time
[21:57:00] <furrywolf> I can buy a linuxcnc-friendly mesa setup for less than hat.
[21:57:05] <malcom2073> Right haha
[21:57:21] <malcom2073> spend $160 or so on the mesa, and buy a lot of beer with the rest
[21:58:29] <furrywolf> flashcut also crashes if _any_ box pops up over its window. windows update notification? your part is toast. screensaver? your part is toast. antivirus/java/other garbage notice? your part is toast. etc. I have to run the box with no antivirus and every auto-update for everything disabled, because for some reason all windows programs love running at startup even if you don't want them to and popping up notices...
[21:58:41] <malcom2073> Holy hell, you use that thing professionally?
[21:58:43] <malcom2073> Or just at home?
[21:58:46] <furrywolf> home
[21:58:57] <malcom2073> Still, wasted material costwise wouldn't think you'd put up with that for long
[21:59:06] <furrywolf> from a stripped-down laptop with absolutely nothing extra installed on it, and no internet connectivity.
[21:59:10] <malcom2073> Why haven't you switched? Just the effort of setting it up?
[21:59:17] <furrywolf> time, money.
[21:59:23] <furrywolf> I have a shortage of both.
[21:59:34] <malcom2073> The former yeah, the latter, waste a couple chunks of aluminum and it'll make up for it ;)
[21:59:41] <malcom2073> My mill would be running if it wasn't for time and money heh
[21:59:51] <furrywolf> all my stock comes from the scrapyard. I can't afford new material prices.
[22:00:12] <malcom2073> +1 to that. Me and my dad both get stuff at scrap prices, and often design around the material we have :-D
[22:09:02] <furrywolf> I need to do a wood milling project this weekend... get one of the truetype-to-gcode programs working and engrave a piece of wood, as a joke on a coworker.
[22:09:49] <furrywolf> he's always complaining he's too short to open the rollup door (so someone else should do it!), so he's getting a stick with "Premium door opener - accept no substitutes!" or similar in the side of it.
[22:10:28] <malcom2073> lol nice!
[22:21:34] <furrywolf> "At 9:43 a.m., an employee from a liquor store at the 1500 block of 5th Street called and reported that 10 minutes prior, a male subject had entered the business, pointed a gun at her, and demanded money. The employee said she told him, “No!” and the subject left. "
[22:23:10] * furrywolf sighs at the day's news
[22:23:55] <furrywolf> my favorite is still a couple weeks ago when someone tried holding up a gas station with a rock.
[23:20:19] <Zedodia> hi everyone
[23:21:08] <Zedodia> Im being brave and dipping my toes into the world of linux lol
[23:21:20] <Zedodia> but ive got no clue where to start
[23:21:35] <Zedodia> can anyone offer some time for a few questions
[23:22:03] <furrywolf> start by downloading and running the livecd. :)
[23:22:11] <Zedodia> live cd ok
[23:22:26] <Zedodia> well my first q was.. should be using ubuntu or debian
[23:22:40] <Zedodia> or is linuxcnc only for ubuntu
[23:23:09] <furrywolf> the current livecd has debian on it
[23:23:25] <Zedodia> ah ok.. well its downloaded. ill have to make a usb key
[23:23:34] <Zedodia> cant remeber the last time i used an optical drive lol
[23:24:44] <Zedodia> and also before i go to try this live cd... is linux cnc a stand alone os or is it like an app within debian/ubuntu
[23:26:08] <furrywolf> linuxcnc is a set of software for controlling your machine, not part of the OS. it does, however, require a realtime kernel, which is included with the installation to make it easier.
[23:27:05] <Zedodia> oh ok. cool. well i hope this works... im currently using mach3 on win7 but its so limited with gcode
[23:27:12] <Zedodia> cant even use WHILE END
[23:27:15] <Zedodia> lol
