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[00:20:33] <norias> oh man
[00:20:40] <norias> writeen in asm?
[00:47:08] <LeelooMinai> "insanity knows no boundaries"
[00:56:35] <renesis> if youre smart with asm, its not a ton different than c
[00:57:21] <renesis> you can do macros and function calls type code, and a lot of code would look as simple or even simpler than a c implimentation
[00:57:50] <LeelooMinai> Yes, and if you build a house from toothpicks it's not a lot different than building it from wooden blocks.
[00:57:52] <renesis> you just have to kind of build that first layer of tools yourself
[00:58:04] <renesis> yeah that doesnt make sense
[00:58:11] <renesis> all c code is abstracted asm, basically
[00:58:35] <renesis> so a better analog would be making it from concrete (asm) versus stone or brick (c)
[00:59:06] <renesis> the end result can be very similar, and you can probably do more much cheaper with concrete if you have the tools to work with it
[01:00:25] <renesis> if youre competent enough to write an operating system in c, you should already have a very good idea of how its being compiled into assembly anyway
[01:01:48] <LeelooMinai> My analogy makes perfect sense. You are using compiler to abstact certain common usage patterns instead of just dealing with every single basic instruction and CPU detail.
[01:02:48] <renesis> how does that relate to toothpics versus bricks
[01:02:50] <LeelooMinai> For example, with asm you can devise all sorts of stack usages for variables, but C uses one model and you don't have to worry about it.
[01:03:15] <renesis> right but if that stack model doesnt make sense for what youre doing, in asm you just do it how it works
[01:03:29] <renesis> in c youre bending things to make it work how you want
[01:04:02] <renesis> abstraction makes sense most of the time but if youre doing an operating system, abstraction is going toget in the way for your core code
[01:04:10] <LeelooMinai> Well, toothpicks are small and don't do really anything advanced by their shape. Wood blocks are pre-enginnered to have some useful sizes for building houses and well, shapes that are useful - mainly they are rectanguar in nature:)
[01:04:48] <renesis> yeah but a finished house of toothpicks isnt like a finished house of stone
[01:04:58] <renesis> bricks dont turn into toothpics
[01:05:08] <renesis> c turns into asm
[01:05:37] <renesis> anything you can do with c can be accomplished in asm, everything you do with brocks cannot be accomplished with toothpics
[01:05:40] <LeelooMinai> I would like to notice that people came up with C for a reason, or 100 or so good reasons:)
[01:06:05] <renesis> right and it was for programming higher level applications and making things easily portable
[01:06:15] <renesis> that doesnt seem to be the goal here
[01:06:38] <LeelooMinai> Yes, seems the goal was to spend 10 years to make os that no one really uses/
[01:06:43] <renesis> if performance is the goal, and the developer knows the asm, the asm is probably going to win
[01:07:12] <LeelooMinai> To me it just seems like excercise in futility.
[01:07:13] <renesis> looks like closer to 15, and who cares if it works how its supposed to
[01:07:53] <renesis> oh you said wooden blocks i just read blocks
[01:08:04] <renesis> that actually does make more sense
[01:08:13] <renesis> read that wrong
[01:08:27] <LeelooMinai> Just because it works, doesn't mean that the whole idea was great.
[01:08:53] <renesis> asm would be wooden blocks, and c would be like glued together wooden blocks
[01:08:57] <renesis> like those cutting boards
[01:09:18] <XXCoder> hey LeelooMinai
[01:09:22] <XXCoder> hows your project
[01:09:40] <renesis> well if they benchmark it, and things work considerably faster, i would say its a great system, even more than a great idea
[01:10:04] <renesis> having more options is nice =)
[01:10:16] <XXCoder> renesis: bet its great for realtime
[01:10:19] <XXCoder> aka cnc
[01:10:21] <renesis> exactly
[01:10:33] <LeelooMinai> I have many projects:) CNC one is again pushed away a bit. Doing some fpga-related one now. And unfortunatelly my mom made me make the kitchen cabinets, so there's that:)
[01:11:21] <LeelooMinai> Well, I guess the fpga project is related to CNC because I will use it to get digital indicator data into linuxcnc.
[01:11:37] <LeelooMinai> Over rs485
[01:12:48] <LeelooMinai> I would not hold breath for having many machines running that os to run CNCs, somehow
[01:13:17] <LeelooMinai> It may be fast, may be small, but that's still not good enough
[01:15:42] <renesis> philosophically, i think its better to operate realtime on top of something closer to an embedded system, like that, than working backwards from systems where that wasnt the case
[01:16:20] <renesis> drivers and universaiality become more of an issue, but if youre doing something commercial thats not so much an issue
[01:19:12] <LeelooMinai> I will still stick to my opinion that it's a crazy and futile idea:)
[01:20:34] <XXCoder> doubt anyones willing to port linuxcnc
[01:21:26] <renesis> i dont think this Os is neccessarily the right one, or that the code base directly translates
[01:22:18] <renesis> but something that could be adapted to run on low cost hardware with ideal latencies, with a simple gui, would be awesome
[01:22:41] <renesis> the linuxcnc desktop gui is so overkill
[01:24:30] <renesis> i dont really want word processing or media creation or web browsing functionality on a cnc controller
[01:24:36] <LeelooMinai> Windows 10 Some-Kind-Of-Realtime version then:)
[01:25:26] <LeelooMinai> They are supposed to have a version that will run on Raspberry PI, so I guess it could be possible.
[01:25:26] <renesis> i dont see how thats less general purpose than gnome on ubuntu or debian
[01:25:43] <renesis> that doesnt mean its low latency
[01:25:56] <LeelooMinai> Sure, that's what I wrote what I wrote.
[01:26:21] <LeelooMinai> Depends if they could get some real-time features in it that are better than what the Linux solutions are.
[01:26:52] <LeelooMinai> The RPI point was that it's lean enought at least in size.
[02:18:55] <Deejay> moin
[02:29:51] <zeeshan|2> http://imgur.com/a/ooW8Q
[02:29:54] <zeeshan|2> finally got this frame welded up
[02:30:09] <XXCoder> oh you framed it
[02:30:21] <XXCoder> nice work
[02:30:26] <zeeshan|2> thank u!
[02:30:28] <zeeshan|2> so tired
[02:30:29] <zeeshan|2> =/
[02:31:52] <XXCoder> I bet
[02:32:07] <XXCoder> I need to get less lazy and finally build my cnc router
[02:32:17] <zeeshan|2> is it long weekend fo ryou guys
[02:32:29] <XXCoder> my job is 4/10
[02:33:21] <zeeshan|2> huh
[02:33:27] <XXCoder> 4 day 10 hours
[02:38:15] <archivist> 3 days playing!
[02:38:53] <XXCoder> yeah if I had willpower
[02:39:02] <XXCoder> I gonna check into that issue
[02:39:47] <archivist> I get up to 7 days a week to play
[02:40:02] <XXCoder> varying hours at work?
[02:40:24] <archivist> I get odd days of work
[02:41:20] <XXCoder> interesting
[02:41:53] <archivist> not, means broke all the time
[02:42:37] <XXCoder> yea
[02:47:05] <XXCoder> archivist: currently seeking for job or?
[02:47:49] <archivist> close to retiring age so few jobs available, doing whatever to survive
[02:48:49] <XXCoder> ow yeah heard its tough for older people to get jobs
[02:48:54] <XXCoder> its same for deaf
[02:51:42] <XXCoder> heh I couldn't even get mcdonalds job
[02:51:56] <XXCoder> good thing job training place helped find me current job
[02:56:49] <archivist> some of the job places do tend to throw one at all the worst jobs though
[03:01:02] <XXCoder> like what
[03:02:41] <archivist> there is no way I would want to work in a shop for example
[03:03:19] <XXCoder> dont like shops eh
[03:34:01] <witnit> what all machines you got arch?
[03:36:34] <witnit> anything you could just load up and run parts with?
[03:38:07] <witnit> those welds look good zeeshan|2
[06:07:58] <jthornton> I changed the name of a master doc and changed the submakefile did a make clean and make still gives me an error /home/john/emc-dev/docs/src/Master_Manual.xml:45927: element anchor: validity error on the old document name
[06:22:46] * Loetmichel2 has to rant a bit.. wife wants to buy balcony flowers. so she orders me to drive with her to the home improvement shop... Every thing i do there is wrong, i get the wrong flowers, i put in the wrong baskets, i choose the wrong cahsier... and NOW she is pissed that i am not all cheery to have done that with her? WTF?
[06:25:13] <moorbo> maybe ask her why she's upset about your choices.
[06:25:44] <moorbo> or tell her politely that it bothers you that regardless of what you do is wrong.
[06:26:30] <Loetmichel2> moorbo: simpler solituion: next time she wants to buy flowers she can drive there alone and shove her wheelchair alone also. not my problem.
[06:28:59] <SpeedEvil> Loetmichel2:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OPsSPc-Q5hc - the only sensible solution
[06:30:07] <Loetmichel2> SpeedEvil: should one call that "music"?
[06:30:53] <SpeedEvil> It's actually not supposed to be music - it's probably funnier if you've seen the original series.
[06:31:22] <SpeedEvil> Hyperdrive is sort of star-trek crossed with the office.
[06:57:17] * jthornton waits for make
[07:00:33] <jthornton> lol I thought I was in the dev channel
[07:53:56] <jthornton> yea make is done
[09:08:37] <JT-Shop> one job finally complete
[09:41:20] <archivist> not going to get rich, just found one of these seized in the garden scrap pile
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/VINTAGE-PENNANT-CHAIN-LINK-REMOVER-FROM-AN-OLD-TOOLBOX-CLASSIC-MOTORCYCLE-/251951148205
[09:42:49] <_methods> score
[09:44:50] <archivist> actually this version is closer
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/VINTAGE-PRE-WW2-PENNANT-CHAIN-SPLITTER-FITS-BRITISH-BSA-TRIUMPH-TOOL-KIT-ROLL-/111664338767
[09:50:27] <JT-Shop> it's pretty bad when the walls have quad outlets every 4' and you can't get to 90% of them
[09:51:11] <_methods> heheh
[09:51:26] <_methods> i'm cleaning and rearranging all day because of a similar situation
[09:52:44] <_methods> well i'm going to take a break here in a few though to go watch mad max though
[09:52:50] <archivist> cleaning, gardening, terrible afflictions, just to make space :)
[09:53:23] <_methods> indeed
[09:57:30] <JT-Shop> yes
[09:57:58] <JT-Shop> at least I learned a way to recover fouled up powder coat on more expensive items I make
[09:58:24] <SpeedEvil> Is it 'say it's supposed to look like that'?
[09:58:38] <archivist> I had to make a bench in the garden during the week, no space in the garage :)
[09:59:46] <_methods> scuff and recoat?
[09:59:57] <SpeedEvil> I am seriously considering the 'fuck it, throw up a nice waterproof shed in the garden 10*10m' option
[10:01:25] <archivist> ok till the local council looks on google maps at your shed city
[10:03:11] <JT-Shop> propane torch then sand blast to remove old powder coating
[10:03:33] <_methods> ahh never tried that
[10:03:41] <_methods> soften with the torch then blast it off eh
[10:06:57] <JT-Shop> yea, seems to work pretty good
[10:07:58] * _methods adds that to toolbox
[10:24:31] <Tom_itx> JT-Shop you put in drop outlets too didn't you??
[10:25:00] <jthornton> just one in the middle of the shop
[10:25:53] <Tom_itx> what was the powdercoat solution? i missed that one..
[10:26:02] <jthornton> dang, the docs have the same info in different pdfs again
[10:26:31] <jthornton> still working on it, but could be dirty wipe towel and or poor prep and or crap in the powder
[10:26:32] <Tom_itx> does the make do all that for you?
[10:26:44] <jthornton> make do what?
[10:26:49] <Tom_itx> docs
[10:27:04] <jthornton> it builds them from .txt files
[10:27:24] <jthornton> back to the shop
[10:27:29] <Tom_itx> edit the make then to dump them into one
[10:29:37] <JT-Shop> that's what I'm working on now, I had it once where the same info was only in one doc and it's keeps getting duplicated
[10:30:45] <JT-Shop> but it took me a while to find a problem in one of the docs that screwed up the pdf's
[10:31:44] <JT-Shop> it's really a mess... the html has stuff the pdfs don't and the other way round...
[10:34:38] <Tom_itx> you're trying to make them identical?
[10:34:46] <Tom_itx> i think that's a good idea
[10:34:57] <JT-Shop> they should be the same
[10:35:37] <Tom_itx> rewired the control last night, gonna test it later today
[10:35:52] <Tom_itx> took everything off the 7I84
[10:36:08] <JT-Shop> what's a 7i84?
[10:36:14] <Tom_itx> sserial IO
[10:36:37] <Tom_itx> it's a great card but i have a problem with mine
[10:36:56] <Tom_itx> i had all the limits and pendant on it
[10:37:07] <Tom_itx> non timing critical stuff
[10:48:51] <JT-Shop> have you done any rigid tapping yet?
[10:49:21] <Tom_itx> dry run yes
[10:49:31] <Tom_itx> generated from my cad cam too
[10:49:55] <Tom_itx> i hope to tap some metal today or tomorrow
[10:50:10] <Tom_itx> i want all the errors gone first
[10:51:36] <Tom_itx> putting the bitfile back like it was right now
[10:53:02] <Tom_itx> i _get_ to go shopping first...
[10:53:17] * Tom_itx feels Loetmichel2's pain
[10:55:49] <JT-Shop> try some plastic first lol
[10:56:19] <JT-Shop> yea, I would only push in his case and not pick anything out
[10:57:15] <Tom_itx> you sound like an ole dog in that regard
[11:07:13] <zeeshan|2> mornin
[11:10:08] <JT-Shop> morning
[11:10:55] <zeeshan|2> i need a bigger welder
[11:10:59] <zeeshan|2> to handle 500A welds
[11:11:00] <zeeshan|2> lol
[11:11:04] <archivist> 5pm lazy buggers
[11:11:10] <zeeshan|2> yea i woke up late :P
[11:11:20] <JT-Shop> dang 500a is big
[11:11:21] <zeeshan|2> was machining/welding uptill 6am
[11:11:38] <zeeshan|2> JT-Shop: my welder can lay welds beautifuly down upto .25 metal
[11:11:47] <JT-Shop> mine is only 160A
[11:11:47] <zeeshan|2> but asap i do say .375 to .25"
[11:11:52] <zeeshan|2> it struggles hard
[11:12:01] <zeeshan|2> in aluminum this is
[11:12:12] <zeeshan|2> its like the aluminum sucks all the heat out
[11:12:29] <archivist> it does, needs lotsa amps
[11:12:49] <zeeshan|2> lately ive been getting alot of .25 to .5" stuff to weld
[11:12:53] <archivist> iirc we had 400 amp welders
[11:12:55] <zeeshan|2> its not structural so i get away with it
[11:12:58] <JT-Shop> mine will do 3/8" with 0.035" wire
[11:13:06] <zeeshan|2> mig is a diff story :)
[11:13:28] <zeeshan|2> you need to use pure argon right?
[11:13:34] <JT-Shop> ouch, you have a water cooled torch?
[11:13:39] <zeeshan|2> nahh
[11:13:49] <JT-Shop> yea for alum
[11:13:51] <zeeshan|2> usually the welder will go on overheat mode before the toch gets too hot
[11:14:03] <zeeshan|2> so i thought water cooling would just be money wasted
[11:14:11] <zeeshan|2> but for a bigger welder, i can see it being absolutely necessary
[11:15:10] <JT-Shop> my Miller Syncrowave 180 will get the torch too hot to hold in short order
[11:16:00] <zeeshan|2> what torch are you using
[11:16:03] <zeeshan|2> wpa17?
[11:16:29] <JT-Shop> it says miller black diamond
[11:17:39] <zeeshan|2> http://www.kijiji.ca/v-tool-other/muskoka/tig-welder-miller-syncrowave-300-with-coolant-pump-torch/1072270741?enableSearchNavigationFlag=true
[11:17:39] <zeeshan|2> hehe
[11:17:55] <JT-Shop> everytime I order parts I have to figure out what size it is
[11:19:31] <MrHindsight> urethane wheel on the forklift breaks 3ft from it's last stop and leaves a skid mark
[11:19:42] <zeeshan|2> http://www.millerwelds.com/products/tig/product.php?model=M00119
[11:19:44] <zeeshan|2> one day ill own this!
[11:19:46] <zeeshan|2> one day. :)
[11:20:17] <JT-Shop> wow that is a beast
[11:20:27] <zeeshan|2> lol 500A 100% duty cycke on 3 phase
[11:21:10] <zeeshan|2> lol its got inverter technology and still weighs 198lb
[11:21:11] <zeeshan|2> crazy
[11:21:23] <MrHindsight> i cast a new one overnight, good as new. One more application for liquid dual cure polymers
[11:21:40] <zeeshan|2> MrHindsight: did you use window weld? :)
[11:22:22] <MrHindsight> a combo of vinyl ester and urethane oligomers
[11:22:37] <MrHindsight> MEKP catalyst
[11:23:40] <dutchfish> dead? for the other side? is this the seance channel?
[11:23:59] <dutchfish> oops, wrong channel
[11:24:08] <JT-Shop> lol
[11:24:29] <Tom_itx> one of the better wrong channel quotes so far...
[11:24:36] <zeeshan|2> hahahah
[11:25:18] <MrHindsight> looks like summer arrives here today with humidity
[11:25:36] <MrHindsight> zeeshan|2: have you seen 80's yet this year?
[11:25:37] <Tom_itx> yep, sun's out
[11:25:57] <Tom_itx> gonna suck all the water out of the ground today
[11:26:11] <MrHindsight> we've had rain the past few days
[11:26:19] <zeeshan|2> its supposed to rain in the afternoon here
[11:26:52] <zeeshan|2> i hope the heat is here to stay
[11:27:05] <MrHindsight> i usually open the shop doors to cool things off but it had the opposite effect today
[11:27:05] <jthornton> raining here now
[11:27:10] <zeeshan|2> we saw 3 80's days
[11:28:39] <MrHindsight> I have to find a bigger lathe
[11:28:52] <zeeshan|2> that reminds me
[11:28:57] <zeeshan|2> as much as i bitch and complaine dabout my 12x36
[11:29:01] <zeeshan|2> its been getting the job done
[11:29:13] <zeeshan|2> buy it :-)
[11:29:33] <MrHindsight> need 16 now
[11:29:34] <cthompson> is the wiki on linuxcnc.org still worth reading? It doesn't appear anything has been edited since 2008
[11:29:47] <cthompson> ah, here's reference to Ubuntu 10.04, so 2010
[11:29:52] <MrHindsight> cthompson: it gets edited daily
[11:30:08] <cthompson> MrHindsight: I'm just lucky and hitting old stuff, I guess
[11:30:18] <jthornton> stuff is edited daily but not everything
[11:30:51] <cthompson> well, sure. I'll keep reading.
[11:30:52] <MrHindsight> Last edited May 13, 2015 5:37 am by Jt
[11:30:54] <jthornton> cthompson, Last edited May 13, 2015 5:37 am by
[11:31:01] <MrHindsight> front page
[11:31:37] <cthompson> it seemed odd on the hardware page it looked like the recommendations were years old
[11:31:40] <cthompson> no harm no foul
[11:32:03] <MrHindsight> I can't think of another as active wiki
[11:32:17] <MrHindsight> unless it's a new project starting up
[11:32:39] <cthompson> I'm not moving out of this apartment until late summer, so right now this is just research
[11:33:07] <cthompson> I sort of ended up here accidentally. Video about woodworking led to shapeoko led to "I'm using linuxcnc"
[11:33:12] <cthompson> and down the rabbit hole I go
[11:33:21] <MrHindsight> is there a section on "in apartment machining"? or how to break you lease
[11:33:49] <cthompson> sadly, I know exactly how to break a lease in Ohio, it's too expensive.
[11:34:05] <cthompson> you have to tell them you're leaving and keep paying until they find someone to move in
[11:34:08] <MrHindsight> I new a guy that tried to break is garden apt. lease by welding inside daily
[11:34:20] <cthompson> nice.
[11:34:53] <cthompson> I lost my basement and garage workshops in the divorce in 2009, all my tools have been in storage since
[11:35:10] <cthompson> my next place will have a workshop
[11:36:02] <cthompson> I was surprised at the video. I wasn't aware you could control stepper controllers with just a parallel port and a breakout board.
[11:36:36] <cthompson> For the 3d printer I also don't have room for, I'd been considering smoothieboard. I guess mentally I assumed that CNC had to be custom controller hardware
[11:36:38] <MrHindsight> it's a bit more difficult now that PC's don't come with lpt ports anymore
[11:36:43] <jthornton> you would be suprised how cost effective a pci motion controller card is now a days
[11:37:19] <MrHindsight> nah, smoothie was designed to not use Linuxcnc, they wanted to reinvent the wheel only more poorly
[11:38:11] <cradek> cthompson: rule 1 is don't pick and buy hardware and THEN see if it's needed for linuxcnc. a lot of folks make this mistake, somehow.
[11:39:00] <cradek> cthompson: jthornton is right about the many smart pci cards made for linuxcnc
[11:39:16] <cthompson> cradek: I recently built a hackintosh exactly by figuring out the best parts and THEN going to buy
[11:39:23] <cthompson> so I hear you
[11:39:29] <cthompson> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iPe6nvfm8zw
[11:39:45] <cthompson> that's the video that I kept watching thinking "But, where's his smoothieboard/arduino/etc?"
[11:39:55] <cthompson> before I realized it was just a PC and a parallel port
[11:40:26] <cradek> yeah and you can go up from there
[11:40:47] <cradek> mesa makes the 5i25 which is like the best thing ever internally, that looks like a parallel port from the outside
[11:41:12] <cradek> hardware step generators and encoder counters and pwm generators, but it hooks up to all the old parport-based breakout hardware
[11:41:40] <cradek> and then you keep going up into real industrial pci solutions, or now even ethernet
[11:41:41] <cthompson> nice
[11:42:05] <cthompson> the term "downward spiral" keeps coming to mind
[11:42:28] <cradek> no no - it's upward :-)
[11:42:45] <MrHindsight> smoothie = downward spiral
[11:43:31] <cthompson> MrHindsight: compared to the RAMPS/RAMBO cards, it appears to be a giant leap forward
[11:44:14] <Jymmmm> MrHindsight: helical? Cause that might be kinda cool
[11:44:46] <cthompson> good lord
[11:44:49] <cthompson> this Mesa product line
[11:45:01] <cthompson> ethernet in and three "parallel" out?
[11:45:36] <cradek> that "parallel" hooks to a lot of their other stuff too, you don't have to use it as parallel-port-compatible
[11:45:45] <MrHindsight> nah, smoothie is for the reprap crowd, they still think that CNC glue guns will revolutionize manufacturing
[11:46:13] <Jymmmm> MrHindsight: They will, just add $80,000
[11:46:37] <MrHindsight> and smoothie was designed in someones apartment
[11:46:47] <cthompson> MrHindsight: to be fair, I entered this conversation through 3d printing. I'd stab a nun for a Rostock Max.
[11:47:04] <MrHindsight> had a feeling
[11:47:05] <cthompson> all in good time
[11:47:14] <cthompson> for the record, I want it all
[11:47:18] <cthompson> who doesn't?
[11:47:41] <cthompson> 3d printing, resin/UV printing, CNC, laser, plotter/cutter
[11:47:59] <cthompson> six years of not having any reasonable workspace has me all worked up
[11:48:58] <cthompson> that said, I'm not a zealot to any one tech. Smoothie I found reading about RAMPS. If something is better, I'm all for it.
[11:49:10] <cthompson> the advantages of years to sit and research and stew.
[11:50:06] <dutchfish> hi, how hard would it be to extend the stepper configuration wizzard? i want an option not only for xenable, but also for yenable and zenable, which work if i edit the configfile manually but then the wizzard can no longer being used on the config.
[11:51:04] <cradek> is it just a bug?
[11:51:16] <MrHindsight> cthompson: RAMPS, and smoothie were all made to deflect $ into the pockets of their devs, the early cnc glue guns used linuxcnc and then they had an "epiphany"
[11:51:17] <dutchfish> cradek, i do not know
[11:51:33] <cthompson> MrHindsight: nice.
[11:51:57] <MrHindsight> cthompson: lets replace the PC with a micro and still use a PC for the UI
[11:52:18] <cradek> MrHindsight: oh I assume good faith on the part of everyone...
[11:52:40] <MrHindsight> unfortunately I met the devs
[11:52:44] <dutchfish> cradek, if i alter it manually it works as it is supposed to be, but those options are not available, instead i only can choose amplifier enable, which puts in xenable
[11:52:46] <MrHindsight> and watched the evolution
[11:53:25] <cthompson> I actually asked on a forum years ago why a computer with a parallel port couldn't control things, as it seemed to have enough pins
[11:53:45] <cthompson> and got vague responses about "real time" and "latency"
[11:53:57] <cthompson> I didn't even remember that until now
[11:54:01] <cradek> parports have controlled things since there have been parports
[11:54:15] <cradek> parports are very much realtime
[11:54:35] <MrHindsight> cthompson: I see it more like asking 4th graders about differential equations, you'll get all sorts of fun responses
[11:54:46] <cradek> heh
[11:55:22] <cthompson> MrHindsight: to be fair, I'm 46 and "do computers" and if you asked me about DiffEQ my eyes would glaze over.
[11:55:35] <cthompson> I'm a linux sysadmin specifically so I don't get asked to do higher math. :)
[11:56:15] <cthompson> these mesa cards make me think of the BeBox geekport
[11:57:09] <cthompson> https://www.allpinouts.org/index.php/BeBox_GeekPort
[11:57:47] <cthompson> 16 digital in/out, four analog in/out, +5, -5, +12, -12v sources
[11:57:58] <cthompson> in DB-37
[11:58:58] <MrHindsight> cthompson: try the linuxcnc live cd and compare that to say printrun/pronterface/etc
[11:59:22] <MrHindsight> you'll quickly see the difference
[11:59:46] <archivist> cthompson, my 5 axis hangs off one parallel port
[12:00:13] <archivist> granted it lacks limit switches :)
[12:00:21] <cthompson> MrHindsight: I've been watching videos. Guy wrote what I take to be python to add a usb microscope to his shapeoko to zero x and y
[12:00:46] <cthompson> I'm thinking that's not something you can just randomly do in something like pronterface
[12:01:12] <cthompson> so, I'm sold.
[12:01:22] <cthompson> now to spend several months plotting and scheming
[12:02:34] <archivist> I experimented with a usb cam too, added cross hairs in a web interface
[12:02:53] <dutchfish> cradek, i fixed it, in line 163, nano $(which stepconf) just added those options. done. Its just python.
[12:03:13] <archivist> then realised the web cam needed its own xy control
[12:04:12] <cthompson> archivist: this guy hard mounted it to his spindle mount so it was locked in place and looked through a clear plexi dust shoe
[12:04:43] <archivist> then it would miss variable length tooling :)
[12:04:44] <MrHindsight> cthompson: yes, once you start comparing and looking for features and options is becomes quite apparent that the differences are
[12:04:57] <MrHindsight> that/what
[12:05:15] <archivist> cthompson, mine looked sideways
http://www.archivist.info/cnc/target.php
[12:07:11] <dutchfish> cradek, and line 157 human_output_names on the same order for the names in the dropdown boxes.
[12:07:12] <cradek> dutchfish: it would be awesome if you would prepare a git patch and submit that change on the devel mailing list. some help here:
http://linuxcnc.org/docs/html/code/Contributing-to-LinuxCNC.html
[12:07:27] <dutchfish> cradek, if it keeps working i will do
[12:07:44] <dutchfish> cradek, git dif
[12:08:04] <dutchfish> cradek, thanks
[12:08:17] <cthompson> archivist: wow
[12:09:29] <archivist> cthompson, I need to measure cutter diameter+offset and rotary centre, diameter etc and get them inline
[12:10:05] <archivist> usually eyeball it and use the digital guessing stick
[12:13:51] <dutchfish> cradek, last q, is there a git repo for debian/wheezy which i can work on with the git build tools?
[12:14:42] <dutchfish> (then its convient to produce patches, i prolly have some more to come)
[12:19:21] <MrHindsight> cthompson: camview hasn't been touched in a while, I'd look at openCV for new development
[12:19:57] <MrHindsight> camview works but opencv is actively developed
[12:20:01] <MrHindsight> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pe2RACwiEbg
[12:20:06] <dutchfish> cradek, nm, found it already, thanks again
[12:20:08] <cradek> dutchfish: I don't understand what you're asking. the linuxcnc source (stepconf is a part of linuxcnc) is at git.linuxcnc.org. the deb packaging rules are in there too
[12:20:11] <cradek> oops
[12:20:14] <cradek> too slow
[12:20:18] <dutchfish> :)
[12:20:45] <dutchfish> cradek, yes, found the package rules as well, happy building atm
[12:21:00] <MrHindsight> just found this video
https://vimeo.com/13840650 real-time target tracking w/ openCV + EMC
[12:21:43] <t12> i like how this thing looks:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/S-N-BRIDGES-CO-PRECISION-HIGH-SPEED-DRILL-PRESS-MADE-IN-ENGLAND-5-32-CHUCK/350927103942
[12:21:57] <MrHindsight> "openCV in python, talking to EMC machine controller via emcrsh"
[12:28:36] <archivist> I wonder if he went any further with that
[12:53:58] <zeeshan|2> http://www.kbctools.ca/products/MEASURING%20@@26%20INSPECTION/EDGE%20@@26%20CENTER%20FINDERS/EDGE%20FINDERS/ELECTRONIC%20EDGE%20FINDERS/1188.aspx
[12:54:02] <zeeshan|2> is this garbage
[12:54:08] <zeeshan|2> theres one someone is selling for 40bux
[12:54:54] <cradek> haha "3D Electronic"
[12:55:03] <zeeshan|2> :]
[12:55:07] <zeeshan|2> from the sounds of it
[12:55:13] <zeeshan|2> you can move it in Z in the same setup?
[12:55:21] <zeeshan|2> and they give you .2" of over travel
[12:55:26] <cradek> this thing exists in 3 dimensions and is made up partly of electrons
[12:55:33] <zeeshan|2> haha
[12:55:54] <cradek> they forgot "solid state"
[12:55:58] <cradek> sorry I'm no help
[12:56:01] <cradek> I have no idea
[12:57:25] <dutchfish> cradek, there you go:
http://paste.debian.net/178343/
[12:57:38] <dutchfish> cradek, and it builds
[12:57:44] <malcom2073> Dem electrons move in 3!!! dimentions!
[12:57:46] <dutchfish> (obviously)
[12:58:31] <cradek> dutchfish: cool, would you please make a git patch (using git commit -s; then git format-patch) and put it on the devel list?
[12:58:48] <cradek> then you get authorship and the stepconf guys can review it
[12:59:04] <dutchfish> cradek, i will try, also i work alot with git, this is a primer for me
[12:59:10] <cradek> great
[12:59:49] <cthompson> I was going to lunch two and a half hours ago when I got sucked into the linuxcnc rabbit hole
[13:00:07] <cthompson> and now I'm watching videos like a junkie
[13:01:04] <dutchfish> cradek, that might take a few days, becausei have no build envirenment on my linuxcnc station (yet) and i have a diferent arch on my workstation
[13:02:47] <dutchfish> cradek, but i will manage
[13:04:11] <cradek> thanks, I know initial setup can be a pain but it's worth it
[13:06:49] <dutchfish> cradek, sure, i fixed another bug in the main code as well, i will do that along this one
[13:07:05] <dutchfish> yw
[13:15:02] <A_Nub> anyone here have a cheap suggestion for a pc?
[13:15:12] <A_Nub> I just had some of the worst luck with an atom board
[13:15:19] <A_Nub> it fried my SSD
[13:15:26] <A_Nub> and I just dont want to deal with it atm
[13:15:56] <A_Nub> well not just cheap, but decent deal for cnc
[13:18:45] <dutchfish> cradek, i spoke to soon, there is more to it, i will debug it carefully before i submit the patch
[13:19:02] <dutchfish> cradek, sorry for the noise
[13:29:27] <eventor> hi, is there an solution for reading NGC/Interpreter Paramters to python/gladevcp ?
[13:33:47] <eventor> i'm able to read the var file from python periodicly, but the parameter are only saved at linuxcnc shutdown. thats not "actually" enough for me...
[13:34:45] <eventor> is there any implementation for the parameters in the python module?
[13:37:18] <cradek> no, and it's worse than you think, because the interpreter reads way ahead of where the machine is, so those parameters are often from the far future
[13:40:31] <eventor> yes, i understand. for that what i want its not critical
[13:42:05] <eventor> I want an gui object for display and sometimes changes an persistant ngc parameter (material_heigth) is there another solution?
[13:44:04] <cradek> usually the operator would use touch off or probing to set Z=0 to be the top of workpiece
[13:46:38] <eventor> yes, but on this machining center there are fix zero points, the operator has to input the material height, and then z0 is given
[13:48:17] <eventor> i can set the parameter with the mdi_action widget, but reading is the problem
[13:52:04] <eventor> its not the normal way i know, but i have to implement most similar behaviour as the mid 80s control did have :-(
[14:18:57] <jthornton> A_Nub, I think lately people have been using J1900 mb
[14:52:43] <Tom_itx> A_Nub, you didn't get that asrock one i posted?
[14:53:06] <A_Nub> I did
[14:53:18] <A_Nub> It burnt my ssd and release the smoke
[14:53:22] <Tom_itx> 2 boards: Q1900M pro3 & Q1900B itx
[14:53:41] <Tom_itx> what did?
[14:53:53] <A_Nub> The asrock q1900b
[14:54:11] <Tom_itx> never heard of that happening
[14:54:11] <_methods> wow that sux
[14:54:32] <_methods> you don't happen to work near an iranian nuclear facility do you lol
[14:55:01] <JT-Shop> were you welding inside your computer?
[14:55:09] <_methods> hahah
[14:55:16] <_methods> is that wrong?
[14:59:12] <A_Nub> All I did was plug in the 24 pin ram and ssd
[14:59:21] <A_Nub> I have built.many computers before
[14:59:35] <A_Nub> So pretty sure it wasn't my fault
[15:00:33] <JT-Shop> so bad ssd, bad power supply?
[15:00:38] <Tom_itx> maybe a coincidence
[15:01:00] <A_Nub> JT-Shop: i have used both the ssd and psu before
[15:01:04] <A_Nub> On my test bench
[15:01:05] <Tom_itx> could be the supply, i somewhat doubt the signal from the MB would do that
[15:01:15] <_methods> RMA
[15:01:24] <A_Nub> _methods: already did
[15:01:36] <A_Nub> Ssd sadly is old
[15:01:41] <_methods> yeah that's crazy
[15:01:41] <A_Nub> So it's just lost
[15:02:00] <_methods> that sux
[15:02:04] <A_Nub> Yea
[15:02:07] <Tom_itx> i may have to try that, i've got a ssd for testing
[15:02:08] <A_Nub> First cnc machine
[15:02:21] <A_Nub> Haven't even been able to get it to move
[15:02:33] <_methods> don't worry that's normal lol
[15:02:35] <JT-Shop> don't ssd's have a limited life
[15:02:36] <A_Nub> Had a shit pci lpt before this too
[15:02:40] <_methods> it takes patience
[15:02:48] <Tom_itx> JT-Shop, some are kinda doomed from the start too
[15:02:49] <A_Nub> JT-Shop: not to the extent of fire
[15:02:50] <_methods> if it was easy hillary clinton would have a cnc
[15:02:54] <A_Nub> And this was barely used
[15:03:26] <A_Nub> _methods: heh i was at least hoping itd be somewhat like my 3D printer
[15:03:41] <A_Nub> But no, just a bunch of ancient plugs and software
[15:03:47] <_methods> no this actually requires skill\
[15:04:06] <A_Nub> I built my printer!
[15:04:08] <Tom_itx> heh
[15:04:13] <A_Nub> A tiny bit of skill
[15:04:21] <Tom_itx> well this should be a walk in the park for you then
[15:04:29] <_methods> lol
[15:04:43] <A_Nub> That's what I thought but I keep getting dud hardware!!!
[15:05:23] <A_Nub> Anywho, ordered a Dell optiplex for $15
[15:05:34] <_methods> nice
[15:05:35] <A_Nub> Hopefully it will at least turn the motors
[15:05:44] <A_Nub> And not catch fie
[15:05:49] <A_Nub> Fire
[15:06:23] <_methods> don't pour gas on it and you should be alright
[15:06:45] <A_Nub> Ahh liquid cooling though!
[15:07:13] <_methods> hehe
[15:08:55] <JT-Shop> Tom_itx,
http://buildbot.linuxcnc.org/doc/scratch/v2.7.0~pre6~2.7-Docs~383a65a/pdf/LinuxCNC_Documentation.pdf
[15:19:58] <Tom_itx> lookin good
[15:22:01] <JT-Shop> thanks, now there can be links to any part of the manual
[15:22:08] <JT-Shop> even in the html
[15:22:14] <Tom_itx> nice
[15:23:35] <Tom_itx> pcw_home, direct from the fpga pins is active low right?
[15:33:57] <pcw_home> FPGA pins are neither active high or active low thats a hal/external hardware choice
[15:33:59] <pcw_home> _however_ since FPGA pins on Mesa hardware start up in a high state,
[15:34:00] <pcw_home> Active low external hardware is suggested
[15:34:19] <Tom_itx> that's kinda what i remembered
[15:35:37] <Tom_itx> pcw_home, the 7i90 drives the same as the 7i43 on the FPGA pins right?
[15:35:53] <pcw_home> Yes all are the same
[15:35:54] <Tom_itx> just double checking things here..
[15:36:06] <Tom_itx> should be good to go then
[15:36:18] <Tom_itx> i'm taking the 7i84 out of the equasion for now
[15:36:59] <Tom_itx> it's still wired but disconnected if you want any tests
[15:37:22] <pcw_home> weird we have thousands of sserial devices running but have never seen your particular issue
[15:37:36] <Tom_itx> it ran fine on the 7i47
[15:37:48] <Tom_itx> well all i had on it was the limits...
[15:38:03] <Tom_itx> i didn't port the pendant over until i switched to the 7i90
[15:38:06] <pcw_home> I wonder if its a bug with just one serial channel
[15:38:13] <Tom_itx> no idea
[15:38:26] <Tom_itx> i think i have room to add 2
[15:38:35] <Tom_itx> io 13 15 and 22 23 maybe
[15:38:41] <Tom_itx> if 23 is still free
[15:39:05] <pcw_home> you could add more on the other connectors
[15:39:30] <Tom_itx> but i'd need a differential drive for it
[15:39:39] <Tom_itx> and i don't have one hooked up to it now
[15:39:45] <Tom_itx> i have the spare 7i47...
[15:41:10] <Tom_itx> i made a 50pin ribbon for it last night in case i decided to use it instead of direct to the FPGA pins but i don't think there were enough inputs
[15:41:11] <pcw_home> a lot of things go funny with only one channel (various RAMs collapse into latches, the SSLBP code loop is a loop of 1 channel etc etc)
[15:41:29] <Tom_itx> would just having it in the bitfile make a difference?
[15:41:36] <Tom_itx> 2 instead of 1
[15:42:23] <Tom_itx> what about the terminated RX voltage though?
[15:42:27] <pcw_home> it might, I dont think any standard configs have just one sserial channel
[15:42:27] <Tom_itx> you said it was high
[15:42:40] <Tom_itx> it was 3.xx v or such
[15:42:56] <pcw_home> yeah it cannot be 3.3V (impossibe with 120 Ohm load on 3.3V driver)
[15:43:11] <Tom_itx> it was that way on both IO13 and IO15
[15:44:00] <Tom_itx> RX needs the resistor enabled?
[15:44:18] <pcw_home> yes
[15:44:21] <Tom_itx> ok
[15:45:05] <pcw_home> well with a short cable its not likely to be an issue but trying to remove variables
[15:45:06] <Tom_itx> i'm pretty sure it always was but i'm certain it has been since i switched to the 7i90
[15:45:43] <Tom_itx> and i'm reasonablly sure it always was because i copied the jumpers over from the 7i47
[15:45:50] <pcw_home> arghh broadcom wireless support is a PITA
[15:46:32] <_methods> yep
[15:47:02] <Tom_itx> i'm not sure it errors with nothing hooked to it, just when i had the pendant on it is when i noticed it
[15:47:06] <_methods> wireless in general seems like
[15:47:19] <Tom_itx> i could also hook the 7i71 up but i don't really have much to connect to it
[15:50:28] <pcw_home> I am trying mint on the tupperware PC and it worked with the stock cinnamon dist after poking the driver manager
[15:50:30] <pcw_home> but getting a working driver with the RT kernel is a major PITA
[15:50:32] <Deejay> gn8
[15:51:08] <_methods> i'm suprised with mint lol
[15:51:15] <_methods> they throw everything in that distro
[15:51:37] <_methods> i actually talked my wife into using mint for a year
[15:51:52] <_methods> she made me reinstall windows when the year was over
[15:51:56] <pcw_home> yeah easier to get running than in ubuntu
[15:52:13] <_methods> but she managed to survive for a year
[15:52:27] <_methods> so i gotta give mint +1 for that
[15:52:52] <pcw_home> well that stock system worked well. (no issue installing linuxcnc either)
[15:53:33] <pcw_home> but @#$## Broadcom...
[15:54:05] <_methods> yeah i have no love for broadcom or realtek
[15:54:08] <_methods> intel FTW
[15:54:49] <_methods> learned my lesson long ago with BSD to stick with intel
[15:55:25] <_methods> unfortunately lowest bidder gets on the mobo lol
[15:55:26] <pcw_home> its on a minipcie card, maybe iI should just take it out and replace with something that works
[15:55:44] <_methods> ah good minipcie yeah you can swap em out
[15:58:15] <_methods> bsd hates everything but intel it seems like
[15:59:04] <_methods> either that or write your own drivers and i'm too stoopid to do that
[15:59:34] <_methods> so i just get intel networking kit heheh
[18:44:14] <Jymmm> Um....
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3N1Q8oFpX1Y
[18:44:19] <Jymmm> YES!!!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IxCGfsNNtnE
[18:48:00] <_methods> hmm doing fresh install on a new pc and it's crashing when i try to run latency test
[18:48:12] <_methods> i-pipe timer
[18:58:18] <_methods> lol guess it helps if you actually read dmesg output
[18:58:40] <_methods> guess i need to disable c1e in bios
[18:58:41] <_methods> doh
[19:04:09] <_methods> amazing how easy that works when you actually read lol
[19:08:59] <Tom_itx> i swear if it can happen it'll happen to me
[19:09:20] <_methods> lawnmower again?
[19:09:32] <_methods> or was that jt
[19:09:34] <Tom_itx> checking the rewiring and couldn't connect to the 7i90 with lcnc
[19:09:44] <Tom_itx> cheap chinese 5v reg just bit it
[19:09:57] <_methods> oh i bet that was fun finding
[19:10:07] <Tom_itx> it's got a readout on it
[19:10:18] <_methods> oh well that would help i guess
[19:10:46] <Tom_itx> i suspect just about anything anymore
[19:11:35] <_methods> yeah all i had to do was read to fix my problem lol
[19:18:12] <jims> Can someone explain how to send a parameter from gcode to pyVCP?
[20:50:15] <tjtr33> jims you're gonna have to study this a bit.
[20:50:24] <tjtr33> but i have some python M1xx files in nc-files.
[20:50:32] <tjtr33> They are called from gcode with the format _like_ M199 P100 Q2.345
[20:50:39] <tjtr33> The python file gets the P & Q as $1 $2
[20:50:47] <tjtr33> The python file execs lines _like_ this 'halcmd setp mypyvcp.counter $1 ' ( for 1st passed param ).
[20:50:57] <tjtr33> There is a receiving pyvcp widget with a hal pin, say a number field with a hal pin named _like_ mypyvcp.counter.
[20:51:04] <tjtr33> The python file directly sets the pyvcp pin in this case ( no net is made ).
[20:51:12] <tjtr33> there are a brazillion variants on this!
[20:51:13] <tjtr33> thx to archivist for the $1 trick
[20:53:49] <tjtr33> i had to set a whole bunch of data in one app. so P was a file name ( all numeric ) and Q was an index into the flat-file database. I set a dozen parms with each call that way
[20:58:06] <malcom2073> heh, recompiling linuxcnc on a beaglebone black... time to take a nap :/
[21:05:21] <tjtr33> malcom2073, maybe look at derek malloy's youtube vids on how to cross compile and auto deploy from the pc to the BBB using the Eclipse IDE
[21:06:19] <_methods> yeah man you don't want to compile on that lol
[21:06:51] <_methods> you'll be waiting a real long time and then find out 6 hours in theres an error lol
[21:08:04] <tjtr33> he also shows remote debugging and remote step by stepping thru the code. pretty cool toolset ( all free )
[21:09:10] <malcom2073> tjtr33: That may be worth it, though I only do this about once a year so far haha
[21:34:00] <norias> wow. quiet
[21:36:51] <XXCoder1> shhh
[21:36:53] <XXCoder1> heh
[21:37:33] <norias> oops, sorry.
[21:40:05] <XXCoder1> whats up mamn
[21:41:35] <norias> eh
[21:41:37] <norias> fmea
[21:41:41] <norias> you?
[21:41:53] <XXCoder1> fmea?
[21:42:39] <norias> failure modes and effects analysis
[21:42:53] <XXCoder1> interesting
[21:43:04] <norias> somewhat
[21:43:09] <XXCoder1> just finally lazing a bit after helping mom get stuff
[21:43:16] <XXCoder1> taxi driver lol
[21:43:26] <norias> heh. good deal