#linuxcnc | Logs for 2015-05-11

[00:00:41] <Crom> like it, couple of notes, I'd make a strap filler to keep the din rail from flexing and I'd add light strap tensioners between the screws holding the bearings
[00:01:52] <Crom> _I/--|--\I_ I being the screws, | being the tension screw with a nut under the strap _/--\_ in the middle
[00:07:35] <Crom> the din rail is good for one direction, you'd get flexing in the other like a X ray, you'd get Y direction flex
[00:10:08] <sector_0> Crom, I don't understand the last part about the X-ray
[00:12:11] <sector_0> also, be very frank...
[00:12:33] <sector_0> which is better this method or steel rods with linear bearings/bushings?
[00:17:23] <furrywolf> bbl, wolfy bedtime
[00:23:06] <Crom> X axis I meant X way
[00:23:35] <Crom> if you supported in | direction you'll get flex in -- direction
[00:25:05] <Crom> which is why I'd like V groove bearings on a very stiff rail, like plywood capped with angle aluminum or angle iron if you bearings are big enough
[00:26:07] <Crom> same idea as the din rail, just alot more bracing against flex across the rail
[00:26:34] <sector_0> oh i understand now
[00:27:00] <Crom> <====> where <> are angle iron or AL and ==== is MDF, plywood, oak, ...
[00:27:01] <sector_0> I saw that Idea and thought about doing it be i dunno yet
[00:27:51] <sector_0> ohhh
[00:28:10] <sector_0> I though you meant like _|==|_
[00:28:30] <sector_0> where _| is the angle iron and == is the mdf
[00:28:36] <Crom> I've seen that done as well but again the flex issue
[00:30:16] <Crom> better off getting strap and sandwich between angle iron and put a screw/bolt every 6"
[00:30:24] <Crom> 15cm
[00:33:00] <sector_0> ok
[00:33:29] <sector_0> I think the rod bushing combo is better
[00:33:48] <sector_0> simpler to setup at least
[00:38:43] <sector_0> thanks for the help though
[00:38:45] <Crom> I'm going with the plywood with angle iron and regualar 608xx bearings
[00:38:50] <sector_0> gonna go to bed now
[00:39:13] <Crom> nite
[00:39:28] <sector_0> night
[01:21:28] <XXCoder1> whooo
[01:21:30] <XXCoder1> http://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2015/05/a-quick-look-at-logic-supplys-fanless-industrial-mini-desktop/
[01:21:39] <XXCoder1> sounds like great cnc machine
[02:32:16] <Deejay> moin
[02:34:43] <XXCoder1> hey Deejay
[02:37:03] <Jymmm> Did you guys know you can use Polyurethane hose for fuel line?
[02:38:27] <XXCoder1> nope
[02:38:47] <Jymmm> http://www.amazon.com/Parts-Unlimited-Blue-Polyurethane-Fuel/dp/B0031BW7YM
[02:39:23] <Jymmm> Doesn't stand up well to heat or sun/UV exposure though.
[02:39:45] <Jymmm> excessive heat that is
[02:40:07] <Jymmm> That means this would work http://www.homedepot.com/p/Amflo-1-4-in-x-25-ft-Polyurethane-Air-Hose-12-25E/202205318?MERCH=REC-_-PIPHorizontal1_rr-_-202205320-_-202205318-_-N
[02:40:59] <Jymmm> as long as there is no alcohol (ehtanol?)... http://www.usplastic.com/knowledgebase/article.aspx?contentkey=474
[02:41:56] <Jymmm> I bought 4ft of 1/4" rubber fuel hose today and it was $8 =(
[02:42:33] <Jymmm> Had I known, I would have gotten the PU stuff for what I'm doing.
[02:42:37] <Jymmm> (maybe)
[02:43:09] <XXCoder1> lots gas now has ethnol in it now
[02:43:32] <XXCoder1> good thing those hoses wasnt standard hose for fuel lol or we'd be in trouble by now
[02:43:50] <Jymmm> I'm just ot sure if enthanol is "alcohol" in this context.
[02:44:06] <XXCoder1> it basically is
[02:44:08] <Jymmm> Heh, no shit. give them 6 months.
[02:44:11] <XXCoder1> wood version
[02:44:16] <Jymmm> Yeah, I figured.
[02:44:37] <XXCoder1> well or corn
[02:44:49] <Jymmm> It for extended run on my generator but would have liked 6ft instead
[02:45:14] <Jymmm> But when the hose costs more than the fitting by double, that's a bit much.
[02:45:23] <XXCoder1> yeah
[02:46:49] <Jymmm> http://www.homedepot.com/p/Watts-3-16-in-O-D-x-3-32-in-I-D-x-10-ft-Vinyl-Microfuel-Line-HSUFD10/204407921
[02:46:57] <XXCoder1> check this out https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1598272670/chip-the-worlds-first-9-computer/video_share
[02:47:04] <XXCoder1> wonder how well it would run a cnc
[02:47:17] <XXCoder1> fancy
[02:50:22] <Jymmm> It's cute.
[02:50:34] <Jymmm> I'm starting to play with ESP8266 though.
[02:58:01] <XXCoder1> interesting
[02:58:04] <XXCoder1> how flexable is it
[02:58:07] <XXCoder1> linux disto on it?
[02:59:28] <Jymmm> Heh, no. It's a wifi-to-serial module.
[02:59:37] <XXCoder1> ahh
[02:59:40] <Jymmm> Glorified arduino if you like
[02:59:52] <Jymmm> runs at 80MHz
[03:00:01] <XXCoder1> chip I plan to have fun with it
[03:00:07] <XXCoder1> run display software on my nook
[03:00:18] <XXCoder1> see if can run as weather display
[03:00:19] <Jymmm> Well, these are like $2.50/each
[03:01:00] <Jymmm> you can attach a dallas one wire temp chip and then toss there whereever and read it via wifi
[03:01:07] <XXCoder1> http://the-digital-reader.com/2015/05/10/energy-sistem-pro-ereader-launches-carta-android-4-2/ this probably can directly run
[03:01:14] <XXCoder1> but then why opay more money lol
[03:02:30] <Jymmm> XXCoder1: http://nathan.chantrell.net/blog/wp-content/uploads/2014/12/esp8266_mqtt_oled_display.jpg
[03:02:44] <Jymmm> It has a mcu on it
[03:04:11] <XXCoder1> nice
[03:04:25] <XXCoder1> theres epaper stuff for arduino now
[03:04:35] <XXCoder1> silly thing is smaller then any ereader yet more expensive
[03:04:53] <Jymmm> I have a 5" phoen for that
[03:05:00] <XXCoder1> epaper phone?
[03:05:10] <Jymmm> epaper?
[03:05:25] <XXCoder1> grayscale paper-like display
[03:05:33] <XXCoder1> tend to be on ebook readers
[03:05:41] <Jymmm> eInk?
[03:05:50] <XXCoder1> yeah epaper is another name
[03:05:59] <XXCoder1> eink always felt bit awkward dunno lol
[03:06:22] <XXCoder1> http://www.embeddedartists.com/products/displays/lcd_27_epaper.php
[03:06:33] <XXCoder1> 30 euro, thats basically 50 bucks
[03:06:43] <XXCoder1> you can find used kindle or nook for half that
[03:06:55] <XXCoder1> an 6" is MUCH bigger
[03:07:01] <Jymmm> No thanks, I'll stick with my phone for that
[03:07:06] <XXCoder1> yeah
[03:07:43] <Jymmm> brb
[03:11:36] <Jymmm> Gawd I love my new cart =)
[03:11:47] <XXCoder1> your new walmart cart?
[03:11:56] <XXCoder1> or was it target one?
[03:11:58] <XXCoder1> heh
[03:13:32] <Jymmm> 31" wide, 21" deep, 43" tall, three shelves total, welded 1.5" sq tubing, on chunky casters!
[03:13:53] <XXCoder1> pretty lkarge allright
[03:14:10] <Jymmm> PERFECT working height for me
[03:14:17] <XXCoder1> largest cart at work is 5 feet by 10 feet long
[03:14:30] <XXCoder1> usually used for large parts or LOTS parrts
[03:14:42] <Jymmm> casters roll in all directions
[03:14:50] <XXCoder1> nice indeed
[03:15:06] <XXCoder1> I need to get more workshop stands so I have something to put my cnc royter on.
[03:15:06] <Jymmm> I got it for $20 too, even the gu ringing me up was surprised
[03:16:06] <XXCoder1> thats decent
[03:16:22] <Jymmm> I cna tuck it in a corner when not using it, or pull it out of the way, and use as needed. Plus just store a couple of things below as well
[03:17:10] <Jymmm> KILLS my back to work on a low bench/table leaning over.
[03:17:43] <Jymmm> heavy as hell though =)
[03:20:21] <XXCoder1> thats good actually
[03:20:34] <XXCoder1> prevents from "cart roll" when heavy part is offset on it
[03:31:23] <Jymmm> Yeah, just a pain to un/load it from the car =)
[03:31:55] <Jymmm> it has locking casters as well
[03:33:33] <XXCoder1> nice
[03:37:00] <XXCoder1> hmm just noticed
[03:37:10] <XXCoder1> android dont have "no wallpaper" option
[04:07:19] <Jymmm> XXCoder1: Kinda, you want mine?
[04:07:43] <XXCoder1> nah live wallpaper is better, ironically
[04:07:53] <XXCoder1> I just used basic clock one and removed seconds
[04:08:10] <XXCoder1> so it dont update often, and uses less memory than that massive default wallpaper
[04:11:48] <Jymmm> https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.RemoveWallpaper
[04:12:41] <XXCoder1> lol
[04:13:29] <XXCoder1> I can literally write that in seconds
[04:15:06] <Jymmm> XXCoder1: What apps have you created?
[04:15:29] <XXCoder1> windyflower, node battle, pixelart
[04:18:32] <Jymmm> https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.bigduckgames.fireworksarcade
[04:18:52] <XXCoder1> yours?
[04:19:09] <XXCoder1> never was any good on figet games
[04:19:09] <Jymmm> nah
[04:19:27] <XXCoder1> https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=rolf.livewallpaper.windyflowers
[04:19:59] <XXCoder1> aw 2 guys rated it 2 stars lol
[04:21:23] <Jymmm> lol
[04:21:57] <XXCoder1> not surpised someone rated node battle one star. its bit out of date
[04:22:13] <XXCoder1> ginderbread ruined it with different rending :(
[04:22:16] <XXCoder1> Gonna fix it
[04:23:46] <Jymmm> heh
[04:28:42] <XXCoder1> well its nice and functional notepad tablet now
[04:28:56] <XXCoder1> it cant do any other shit lol
[04:29:09] <XXCoder1> I will bring it to work soon
[04:29:13] <XXCoder1> with some crappy keyboard
[04:29:39] <Jymmm> Get a M$ wireless kybd =)
[04:29:48] <XXCoder1> lol its not worth it
[04:29:56] <XXCoder1> I'll just grab $3 usb keyboard
[04:29:58] <XXCoder1> used
[04:30:14] <XXCoder1> it was so amazing bad. it cant even run youtube
[04:30:16] <Jymmm> Wise choice for SO many reasons
[04:30:18] <XXCoder1> browser runs very slowly
[04:30:39] <XXCoder1> I took it down to barebones so it actually runs.
[04:30:57] <XXCoder1> theres older cm5 for it but I could never find a copy of it
[04:31:16] <Jymmm> no clue.
[04:31:30] <XXCoder1> no time machine either? drat
[04:31:48] <Jymmm> TM on andriod?
[04:31:57] <XXCoder1> TM?
[04:32:04] <Jymmm> Time Machine
[04:32:11] <XXCoder1> oh lol
[04:32:22] <XXCoder1> heh if someone found a way.. and it was a software solution.. lol
[04:32:33] <XXCoder1> everyone would time travel. well besides no tech people
[04:32:46] <Jymmm> Hell, there's nothign straight forward to backup android as it is
[04:34:05] <Jymmm> What kind of fucked up OS restricts what you can out where in a file system. (SD cards)
[04:34:15] <XXCoder1> happy mothers day heh http://unearthedcomics.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/05/Unearthed-MothersDay-1405-1-web.jpg
[04:34:20] <XXCoder1> yeah
[04:34:29] <XXCoder1> I just finally rooted my phone
[04:34:35] <XXCoder1> so its much nicer
[04:35:21] <Jymmm> too many projects right now to even think of that.
[04:35:59] <Jymmm> Well, sorta
[04:36:11] <XXCoder1> I had to do it in bit weird way
[04:36:19] <XXCoder1> first I flashed older kernel to phone
[04:36:27] <XXCoder1> rooted it, then flashed current kernel
[04:36:38] <XXCoder1> I then renamed otacerts.zip so it now can't update
[04:37:03] <Jymmm> updating will deroot it?
[04:37:09] <XXCoder1> sometimes
[04:37:29] <Jymmm> wtf is an OPEN SOURCE OS fucking around liek that for?
[04:38:02] <Jymmm> sorry, just a pet peeve
[04:38:17] <Jymmm> Don't fuck with my shit, mkay
[04:38:24] <XXCoder1> its companies that do that
[04:38:38] <Jymmm> what companies?
[04:38:51] <XXCoder1> like samsung, so on
[04:38:56] <XXCoder1> hardware producters
[04:38:58] <Jymmm> ah
[08:48:47] <Jymmm> How shipping containers are made… https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z7l6AQN1KV0
[08:49:35] <SpeedEvil> Hah.
[08:49:40] <SpeedEvil> Sunrise@0:20
[08:49:56] <SpeedEvil> I think I would want cylinders of nitrogen and oxygen, and not for welding before visiting
[08:50:03] <furrywolf> hrmm, I'm impressed. the battery for my paslode nailer has come surprisingly back to life. been pulling 2.5A from it for 15 minutes now, and it's only a 1.3ah battery.
[08:51:27] <Jymmm> I need another nitrogen tank
[08:51:52] <Jymmm> well, want a 2nd one, or larger one at least.
[08:52:22] <furrywolf> I've never needed nitrogen.
[08:54:00] <SpeedEvil> Why N?
[08:54:02] <Jymmm> Great when you want no water in your air
[08:54:22] <furrywolf> air dryer. :P
[08:54:44] <Jymmm> I cheaper than cans of air, fill tires, fire supression
[08:55:09] <Jymmm> Yeah, fuck air dryers, my mirrors are more expensive than that to replace
[08:56:03] <Jymmm> on the laser that is
[08:57:31] <Jymmm> plus also when you want an oxygen free environment
[08:58:50] <furrywolf> I use CO2 for things like that
[08:58:55] <furrywolf> you fit a lot more in a tank
[08:58:57] <SpeedEvil> Jymmm: I find that very useful for door-door salesmen
[08:59:47] <furrywolf> that factory needs more robots
[08:59:59] <Jymmm> SpeedEvil: usually just cleaning your shotgun will resolve that
[09:00:46] <SpeedEvil> Sure. But a small sign 'low oxygen environment' legally protects you 100% when they come into the porch. Plus, free fertiliser.
[09:01:30] <Jymmm> Tank exchange $21 for 40cf, $26 for 80cf
[09:02:04] <Jymmm> out the door.
[09:02:20] <furrywolf> I was at someone's house with my dog once. the door-to-door religion salesmen came by. he yelled for my dog to sic 'em. they took off running like you wouldn't believe. my dog, being friendly, had no clue what he was talking about, but they had no way of knowing this...
[09:02:43] <dirty_d> it works, poorly, but it works https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0o6zV04_1Uo
[09:03:15] <SpeedEvil> How DIY are we talking?
[09:03:28] <SpeedEvil> 555, megasquirt, arduino, raspberry pi, FPGA?
[09:03:36] <SpeedEvil> Or all five?
[09:04:02] <dirty_d> stm32 and a pcb i made to drive two mosfets
[09:04:13] <dirty_d> and a carb converted to a fuel injected throttle body
[09:04:32] <SpeedEvil> Interesting
[09:04:32] <dirty_d> the problem is that i have a single 48lb/hr injector
[09:04:36] <furrywolf> Jymmm: co2 is 9cf/lb. a 20lb co2 tank is this 180cf. the whole turning-into-a-liquid thing lets you cram a lot more in. :)
[09:04:47] <SpeedEvil> dirty_d: and it doesn't really want to go down that low?
[09:05:00] <dirty_d> at idle the pulse width is so low that the majority of the time the valve is opeing and closing, so its hard to accurately meter the fuel
[09:05:17] <SpeedEvil> dirty_d: can't you get a smaller injector?
[09:05:32] <dirty_d> it runs, just really rich, i can lean it out, but then sometimes it wont start back up becauxe its too lean, and the injectors might not even be opening
[09:05:39] <dirty_d> its like right on the edge of opening and not opening
[09:05:54] <dirty_d> SpeedEvil, yea ideally it should be about 30lb/hr
[09:06:04] <dirty_d> i could also lower the pressure to 20psi uinstead of 45
[09:06:14] <SpeedEvil> You have read the megasquirt docs?
[09:06:25] <dirty_d> a little bit
[09:06:28] <SpeedEvil> Enriching when starting is a thing
[09:06:29] <Jymmm> furrywolf: c02 condensation, need water free
[09:06:35] <dirty_d> yea i thought about that
[09:06:36] <SpeedEvil> Even in stock vehicles.
[09:06:53] <dirty_d> have it use like 1.5 times as much fuel for the first few seconds of running or something
[09:06:58] <furrywolf> dirty_d: think of what a choke does, and emulate that. :)
[09:07:26] <dirty_d> do you think its a bad idea to have it only inject every 3 ignition events at idle?
[09:07:43] <dirty_d> that way it would be a longer pulse and i could more accurately meter the fuel
[09:07:58] <dirty_d> but the 3rd stroke probably wont get as much fuel
[09:08:12] <CaptHindsight> dirty_d: building some ECU's myself
[09:08:14] <furrywolf> yes, you could indeed emulate an old hit-and-miss engine in software. :P
[09:08:35] <dirty_d> i dont think the engine sucks all the fuel out of the carb in 3 cycles though
[09:08:38] <CaptHindsight> dirty_d: what are you using for software/firmware?
[09:08:43] <dirty_d> its always pretty wet in there
[09:08:49] <dirty_d> i just wrote it myself
[09:08:53] <dirty_d> pretty simple
[09:09:02] <CaptHindsight> yes and no
[09:09:47] <dirty_d> at idle the fuel kinda sits on the closed throttle plate
[09:09:53] <CaptHindsight> also making an stm32 design
[09:09:57] <dirty_d> so i dont think it would be starved at the 3rd intake stroke
[09:10:22] <dirty_d> i just used my stm32f3discovery and stuck all the stuff in a watertight tupperware container
[09:10:24] <furrywolf> you're injecting over the throttle plate? that's a bad idea.
[09:10:37] <CaptHindsight> http://openlunchbox.com/smf/index.php?board=36.0 but the micro is on a small module so it's can be swapped to work with other EFI applications
[09:10:39] <dirty_d> yea, it was really the only place i could put it, but why?
[09:11:22] <dirty_d> at idle the air going past the plate would be at high velocity, so it would better atomize the fuel there
[09:11:37] <furrywolf> more delay, condensation (the change in pressure causes the air to cool and the fuel to condense back out of the mixture), etc. the things efi does better than carbs. lol
[09:11:38] <SpeedEvil> dirty_d: Are you monitoring the airflow?
[09:11:40] <dirty_d> and at full throttle everything is wide open anyway
[09:11:55] <dirty_d> SpeedEvil, not directly, just using a map sensor and ve lookup vs RPM
[09:11:55] <CaptHindsight> dirty_d: rusefi did the same
[09:12:06] <furrywolf> no, it doesn't help it atomize... the temperature drop does the opposite.
[09:12:24] <dirty_d> hmm
[09:12:29] <furrywolf> this is why carbs on vehicles are always heated. it's an annoying drawback of carbsl
[09:12:38] <dirty_d> they are?
[09:12:42] <dirty_d> i didnt know that
[09:12:57] <furrywolf> usually by heating the intake manifold or heating the charge air, or both.
[09:13:24] <dirty_d> i noticed that the intake manifold pressure is 0.85 bar at idle
[09:13:26] <furrywolf> if you don't heat the intake, the cold air makes the fuel condense back onto it.
[09:13:32] <dirty_d> taht seems kinda high to me
[09:13:47] <dirty_d> but it hink it might have been because it was so rich i neded to open the throttle more to get it to idle
[09:14:03] <furrywolf> and to pass smog laws, most later carb vehicles preheated the air too, usually with a shield around the exhaust pipes they pulled the fresh air through.
[09:15:08] <CaptHindsight> dirty_d: you might be able to use rusefi with some minor mods to your pinout http://rusefi.com/wiki/index.php?title=Main_Page
[09:15:15] <dirty_d> CaptHindsight, whats it do the same?
[09:15:20] <furrywolf> yeah, that is rather high.
[09:15:24] <CaptHindsight> he also use the stm32f dicovery board
[09:15:36] <dirty_d> ahh
[09:16:07] <CaptHindsight> dirty_d: more features
[09:16:18] <dirty_d> if i used a higher voltage to drive the injector it would help too
[09:16:45] <dirty_d> but the way its set up, id have to also power the fuel pump from the same source
[09:17:22] <dirty_d> thats another problem, the pump drains the battery faster than the engine charges it
[09:17:37] <furrywolf> lol. smaller pump.
[09:17:52] <dirty_d> the ecu can lower the duty cycle of the fuel pump, so i might be able to lower it and break even or better
[09:18:04] <dirty_d> especially if i change to 20psi
[09:19:06] <furrywolf> if I get a subaru ee20, I'll probably work on my own ecu... but for the swaps I've done I've just used a stock setup.
[09:19:28] <furrywolf> the subaru ecu with the ee20 is apparantly pretty difficult to make function without the entire rest of the vehicle hooked up to it.
[09:19:51] <dirty_d> i have a bluetooth module connected to my ecu that my phone connects to to tune it
[09:20:07] <dirty_d> i figure i can just stick my old phone in some plastic bags and tune it in the water like that
[09:20:48] <dirty_d> furrywolf, what are you using the engine for?
[09:21:00] <furrywolf> if I get one, I'd put it in my subaru. lol
[09:21:34] <dirty_d> my subaru started leaking out of the transmission cooler
[09:21:46] <furrywolf> ewww, automatics.
[09:21:56] <dirty_d> tried to take the nut off to fix it, snapped
[09:22:08] <dirty_d> now its out of action until the new radiator gets delivered
[09:22:36] <furrywolf> 5spd dual-range swap.
[09:22:57] <dirty_d> meh, i would have prefered a 5 speed, but that car was a good deal so i just went with it
[09:23:26] <furrywolf> if you swap on the dual-range, you get real 4x4 too. :P
[09:23:30] <furrywolf> s/on/in
[09:23:32] <dirty_d> dual range?
[09:23:44] <furrywolf> the one with the extra lever on the floor to shift to low-range
[09:23:57] <furrywolf> 1.6:1 additional reduction
[09:24:09] <dirty_d> what car has that?
[09:24:15] <dirty_d> i have a legacy
[09:24:53] <furrywolf> in the US they were sold in the '80s and early '90s, later in .au
[09:24:58] <dirty_d> ahh
[09:25:09] <furrywolf> .au got all the best bits.
[09:26:57] <dirty_d> hmm, i guess i dont really have to worry about idle actually, last tiem i used it i just had the idle screw all the way out so it does when you fall off
[09:27:05] <dirty_d> dies*
[09:27:17] <furrywolf> http://lh6.ggpht.com/_QD6NfijiIfo/SpvqAdc1DHI/AAAAAAAAAFc/kiaNooKTgUA/s800/subedrlever2.jpg looked like that, just like on a truck.
[09:27:19] <JT-Shop> CaptHindsight, what were you telling me yesterday?
[09:27:33] <dirty_d> it sinks if youre not at least on half throttle anyway
[09:29:06] <CaptHindsight> JT-Shop: I think it was that the solvent dyes for anodize and the water rinse out resin for casting are up on the website now
[09:29:22] <furrywolf> ... sinking is bad. this suggests major design improvements needed.
[09:29:33] <dirty_d> not actually sink, lol
[09:29:55] <dirty_d> its a stand up jet ski, so it doesnt actually support the weight of a person unless its moving pretty quick
[09:31:09] <JT-Shop> where is your web site
[09:31:17] <dirty_d> except my girlfriend, she gets on it and rides it 20 minutes on the first try
[09:31:26] <CaptHindsight> http://bucktownpolymers.com/anodize00.html the ROR is near the bottom http://bucktownpolymers.com/rcpolymers00.html
[09:31:31] <dirty_d> right after i fell off it about 20 times in a row before i could make it 50 feet
[09:31:36] <CaptHindsight> JT-Shop: ^^
[09:32:36] <furrywolf> lol
[09:33:18] <dirty_d> should be a lot easier with the engine actually running well though
[09:33:41] <dirty_d> it had like a 5 second throttle response when it ran at all
[09:37:07] <furrywolf> lol
[09:43:46] <JT-Shop> you mix cyan and magenta for blue?
[09:45:49] <archivist> JT-Shop, yes see subtractive colour mixing http://www.horrorseek.com/home/halloween/wolfstone/Lighting/colmix_ColorMixing.html
[09:49:50] <CaptHindsight> http://filmmakeriq.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/08/Additive-and-Subtractive-color.jpg it take a bit of getting used to since most people blend colors with paint or are used to RGB when creating web pages or writing software
[09:50:45] <archivist> us who work/worked with colour printers get used to id
[09:59:38] <furrywolf> bbl, time for work
[10:01:11] <CaptHindsight> archivist: since most resins are clear we use CMYK+W
[10:02:41] <archivist> it is amazing how many think a 3 colour mix gives a full gamut
[13:49:58] <furrywolf> I've got $40 in my wallet... going to head to the scrapyard today and see if I can find material for making an enclosure out of.
[13:50:16] <furrywolf> should I make the door out of aluminum, or plastic so you can see all the shiny bits? (and red fault lights)
[13:51:57] <Rab> Scrapyard plastic is difficult to characterize. It may be old and brittle, or otherwise prone to cracking when machined or placed under stress. It also offers no electromagnetic shielding.
[13:52:10] <furrywolf> good point. alu it is.
[14:00:20] <fogl> hello
[14:00:48] <fogl> is it possible to set the hal comp input/output as string?
[14:09:43] <JT-Shop> TYPE - One of the HAL types: bit, signed, unsigned, or float
[14:10:02] <JT-Shop> http://linuxcnc.org/docs/html/hal/comp.html#_syntax
[14:12:07] <JT-Shop> fogl, you might look at message.comp http://git.linuxcnc.org/gitweb?p=linuxcnc.git;a=blob;f=src/hal/components/message.comp;h=c7b53e0b3bdefec36d8c98781c99669104061ae4;hb=refs/heads/2.6
[14:16:11] <witnit> what all variables can trigger an "joint following error"?
[14:16:23] <Jymmm> furrywolf: you said there is more gas in co2 than N tank. What if I used either one to pressurize a water tank... which would benefit me more?
[14:19:23] <furrywolf> if you pressurize a water tank with co2, you end up with soda water. :P
[14:19:39] <roycroft> yes
[14:19:46] <roycroft> nitrogen is much better for that reason
[14:20:05] <furrywolf> it's only better if you're not trying to make soda. :P
[14:20:24] <roycroft> if you're trying to make soda you would not be asking if nitrogen is appropriate
[14:20:54] <furrywolf> lol
[14:21:01] <Jymmm> So even if the co2 inlet to the tank is in the open air space above the water level, that doens't matter?
[14:21:11] <furrywolf> correct.
[14:21:22] <roycroft> you're talking about a beer keg now :)
[14:22:07] <Jymmm> Ok, ignoring the soda water aspects for a moment... If I just wanted the longest/most volume/pressure in the water line, would co2 be better in the long run?
[14:22:54] <roycroft> why not use compressed air?
[14:23:07] <Jymmm> no electricity
[14:23:10] <roycroft> that's sure a lot cheaper than either of the other alteratives you mentioned
[14:23:15] <roycroft> compress it elsewhere :)
[14:23:26] <furrywolf> co2 in water is also highly acidic, so the entire system has to be stainless or plastic.
[14:23:34] <roycroft> yup
[14:23:37] <Jymmm> furrywolf: is it?
[14:23:39] <roycroft> pH will be like 3.5
[14:23:45] <furrywolf> specifically, it eats copper instantly, resulting in a rather toxic sludge.
[14:23:50] <Jymmm> hmm, good to know.
[14:24:31] <roycroft> stick an old (pre-1982) penny in a glass of coca cola
[14:24:33] <Jymmm> What I'm thinking here is rural self contained fire supression
[14:24:38] <furrywolf> people routinely end up in the ER from drinking sodas from machines with leaky check valves that let a little of the co2 solution back into the feed plumbing
[14:25:04] <Jymmm> Once that gas tank vale opens, let er flow
[14:25:38] <furrywolf> you don't want to be trying to handle soda water. lol
[14:25:53] <Jymmm> ?
[14:26:24] <Jymmm> not fire hose, but fire sprinkler heads
[14:26:27] <furrywolf> the normal solution is a little honda fire pump and a jerry can with stabil in it...
[14:26:28] <XXCoder1> so basically sparking soda is oretty acidic
[14:26:40] <XXCoder1> *water
[14:26:44] <roycroft> as i said, it will have a pH of about 3.5
[14:26:48] <furrywolf> seltzer water has baking soda added to make it less acidic
[14:27:02] <Jymmm> interesting
[14:27:55] <furrywolf> Jymmm: the gas will be coming out of the water in the pipes. it'll cause all sorts of bad things to happen. water hammer as gas escapes allowing the flow to speed up then water hits the nozzle at high speed, etc. you really, really don't want bubbly water for your sprinklers. lol
[14:28:09] <Jymmm> Ok, is there another inert gas that has more bang for the buck in a 80CF tank?
[14:28:10] <JT-Shop> witnit, following error
[14:28:29] <furrywolf> no, nitrogen is the cheapest
[14:28:47] <furrywolf> you could use r134a or such, but by then you might as well just put in a halon system...
[14:28:50] <XXCoder1> our air is quite literally mostly nitrogen
[14:29:06] <XXCoder1> build air distiller
[14:29:09] <Jymmm> furrywolf: Ew, yeah no refrigerants. lol
[14:29:52] <furrywolf> I know! propane! it's cheap, it doesn't dissolve excessively in water... and it'll make the fire sprinkler system into a literal. :)
[14:30:05] <XXCoder1> :)
[14:30:15] <JT-Shop> damn muggy today
[14:30:16] * Jymmm grabs the marshmellows!
[14:30:31] <roycroft> if used in adequate volume propane can extinguish a fire
[14:30:45] <XXCoder1> Jymmm: as well as build your own air distiller so you can easily have near-pure nitrogen
[14:30:46] <roycroft> all you have to do is displace all the oxygen with propane
[14:30:57] <furrywolf> methinks propane's upper flammability limit is pretty high...
[14:31:25] <Jymmm> XXCoder1: I'll have to see whats involved in that.
[14:31:33] * furrywolf googles to check
[14:31:34] <XXCoder1> http://citizensciencequarterly.com/2011/05/liquid-nitrogen-generator/
[14:31:37] <roycroft> oil well fires are put out with explosions to displace the oxygen
[14:31:48] <_methods> yeah we use nitrogen generator here for our laser
[14:31:53] <furrywolf> air distillers are hard. most nitrogen I've seen generated is from membrane systems.
[14:31:54] <_methods> you need a beefy air compressor
[14:32:28] <_methods> they're rather expensive also
[14:32:52] <furrywolf> you can also use the output of a suitably configured oxygen concentrator... you get mostly oxygen out one end, and mostly nitrogen out the other... but membrane systems are much cheaper and more efficient.
[14:33:32] <XXCoder1> yeah commerical ones is really expensive, that homebrew is $500 apparently
[14:33:50] <furrywolf> propane's UEL is over 10%. you'd need a LOT of propane to put out a fire. :P
[14:33:53] <Jymmm> furrywolf: "membrane systems" ?
[14:34:34] <Jymmm> I could probably find a medical oxygen concentrator on ebay/cl easy enough
[14:34:45] <furrywolf> https://www.google.com/search?site=&source=hp&q=membrane+nitrogen+generator&oq=membrane+nitrogen+generator&gs_l=hp.3...1120.5199.0.5335.
[14:35:40] <Jymmm> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nitrogen_generator
[14:36:10] <furrywolf> but, really, for a fire system, bottled gas is fine.
[14:36:34] <JT-Shop> hmm, I've lost LinuxCNC on this computer
[14:36:43] <Jymmm> Yeah, a nitrogen generator would let me refill tanks easily
[14:37:02] <_methods> keep in mind that it's not the purest nitrogen
[14:37:09] <_methods> not sure if that matters for your application
[14:37:13] <furrywolf> but how often do you plan on refilling them? does your building catch fire regularly?
[14:37:17] <Jymmm> though, might be simpler just to have tanks refilled
[14:37:25] <roycroft> the best thing, of course, is to avoid having a fire in the first place
[14:37:32] <XXCoder1> yeah
[14:37:52] <_methods> an ounce of prevention is worth a nitrogen generator?
[14:37:52] <XXCoder1> could have more fun with distaller besides just fire stuff
[14:38:01] <Jymmm> furrywolf: I use my nitrogen tank for all kinds of stuff. This was just one idea to pressurized a gravity fed holding tank
[14:38:09] <furrywolf> for fire stuff, keep in mind there's a _lot_ of regulations you'll have to work with.
[14:38:22] <XXCoder1> not if outside zones
[14:38:24] <roycroft> if you really want to use co2, then you can make some beer, carbonate it in a keg with co2, drink the beer, and pee on the fire
[14:38:46] <_methods> the mckenzie brothers fire suppression system lol
[14:38:47] <furrywolf> XXCoder1: you're right, if you're in libya or something, there's probably fewer regulations. :P
[14:38:49] <Jymmm> furrywolf: This is something I might install in a shipping container
[14:38:59] <roycroft> how's it going, eh?
[14:39:02] <XXCoder1> er no fut
[14:39:04] <XXCoder1> fur
[14:39:05] <_methods> hosehead
[14:39:53] <_methods> you're a hoser, eh
[14:39:55] <Jymmm> furrywolf: some fire supression is better than none at all.
[14:40:09] <furrywolf> you'd probably want a dry standpipe system, where the plumbing is filled with nitrogen, and the tank isn't pressurized until needed.
[14:40:36] <Jymmm> Although, maybe just flooding the container with nitrogen itself might be enough
[14:40:58] <Jymmm> ...to displace the O2
[14:40:59] <furrywolf> for that small of a space, co2 might be easiest.
[14:41:23] <Jymmm> you call 40ft conaiter small?
[14:41:38] <furrywolf> co2 without water is quite effective.
[14:41:41] <furrywolf> yes. I call 320ft2 small.
[14:41:45] <XXCoder1> if its not intended for people to be in it, you might as well as add oxygen remover
[14:42:21] <Jymmm> Yeah, I'd be the bastard that would be in it and an EQ comes along =)
[14:42:23] <furrywolf> also, you didn't mention it was 40... could have been 20. :P
[14:43:27] <Jymmm> true
[14:43:36] <Jymmm> Might be 20ft, not sure yet.
[14:44:49] <Jymmm> I just don't like the idea of no running water (beyond fire surpession)
[14:45:36] <Jymmm> and 5psi shower is no bueno... http://terrylove.com/forums/index.php?attachments/static_pressure_gain-jpg.11232/
[14:46:38] <furrywolf> you plan on showering in a shipping container?
[14:47:37] <Jymmm> furrywolf: LOL, maybe =) Nah, put a 300gal tote on TOP of the container has a holding tank
[14:47:58] <Jymmm> gravity fed
[14:48:17] <Jymmm> but use nitrogen to pressurize it if needed.
[14:49:44] <Jymmm> http://images.craigslist.org/00W0W_9n5myaeYxq6_600x450.jpg
[14:50:53] <SpeedEvil> Actually sealing containers is hard.
[14:50:56] <SpeedEvil> Large ones.
[14:51:04] <SpeedEvil> Atmospheric delta-p gets large
[14:51:18] <furrywolf> for liquid fuels, guidelines seem to say you need a 34% concentration. at 20x8x7ft, you'd have 1120ft3, and need 380ft3 of co2 to flood it. at 8ft3/gal, that's 48lbs, or a 50lb tank. a 50lb tank is about $75 or something to fill, and available at every welding shop.
[14:51:20] <SpeedEvil> You generally need bellows to avoid stuff exploding
[14:51:29] <furrywolf> so for $75 you can completely inert your container with co2.
[14:51:36] <SpeedEvil> furrywolf: If first you evacuate it completely
[14:51:51] <fogl> JT-Shop, thank you for the info, if i understand the code the message.comp, it outputs the message (rtapi_print_msg) to dmesg. Is it possible to somehow read this message with some other .comp. I would like to send some data of variable length from one hal module to the other.
[14:51:59] <furrywolf> jumm: those totes are NOT pressure-rated. you can't pressurize one of them.
[14:52:02] <furrywolf> jymm
[14:52:06] <SpeedEvil> furrywolf: I suspect wet iron powder may be cheaper
[14:52:33] <furrywolf> Jymmm: where is your water coming from?
[14:52:40] <XXCoder1> Jymmm: whats your plan with tank anyway
[14:52:52] <SpeedEvil> I should read more scroll.
[14:53:16] <SpeedEvil> Shower pumps are commonly available.
[14:53:20] <SpeedEvil> And work well.
[14:53:30] <Jymmm> furrywolf: 50lb tank of co2 seems cool to flood the continer directly. As far as pressurizing the tote, it would be like at 30psi, not relaly all that much.
[14:54:04] <furrywolf> it won't hold 30psi. it probably won't hold 3psi.
[14:54:47] <furrywolf> what is filling the tank? are you driving it somewhere, or is it being filled by something in the area?
[14:55:11] <Jymmm> furrywolf: either city or water well
[14:55:44] <furrywolf> ... if you have city water, or a well pump, why do you need to repressurize it? lol
[14:56:06] <XXCoder1> pumping upwards
[14:56:07] <Jymmm> furrywolf: If well and no electricity or pump fails.
[14:56:28] <XXCoder1> Jymmm: could add solar and battery backup for pump
[14:56:49] <SpeedEvil> And backup pump
[14:57:06] <furrywolf> as I said, for fire use only, the standard option is a small gas or diesel pump.
[14:57:19] <Jymmm> I could, but a nitrogen tank seems the most idiot proof/least failure
[14:57:23] <XXCoder1> wonder if theres enough termal difference to run stiring as pump lol
[14:57:23] <furrywolf> for shower, just use an electric pump. lol
[14:57:38] <XXCoder1> definitely not in winter
[14:57:43] <furrywolf> from your questions, I suspect anything you build with nitrogen will be less reliable than an off-the-shelf solution.
[14:59:12] <furrywolf> as I said, you can _not_ just pressurize a random tote or tank. even at 30psi you need an actual pressure vessel.
[14:59:26] <furrywolf> and then you either have to vent the tank to fill it, or fill under pressure.
[14:59:44] <XXCoder1> Jymmm: can always make your own water tower lol
[15:00:04] <XXCoder1> I suspect its not easy and probaby not allowed unless you live outside any zoning
[15:01:04] <furrywolf> although, it would be rather amusing you watch you attempt to pressurize one of those totes. please make sure someone films it for youtube. :P
[15:02:23] <XXCoder1> https://youtu.be/FZ57acKJkRM
[15:03:27] * SpeedEvil ponders silly suggestion.
[15:03:37] <SpeedEvil> n*2l coke-bottles are fine at 65C
[15:04:26] <furrywolf> heh! above I guessed they probably wouldn't hold 3psi. they're tested at 2.9psi. :P
[15:04:53] <furrywolf> and that's for a fancy one, not a cheapo one
[15:05:27] <SpeedEvil> Hot water cylinders - pressurised from the mains - are common here, and rated to - IIRC - 50PSI
[15:06:17] <Loetmichel> SpeedEvil: coce bottles (the 1 liter PET kind) are good for 12 Bar!
[15:06:20] <Loetmichel> coke
[15:06:35] <XXCoder1> lets make tank out of bottles then lol
[15:06:45] <furrywolf> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_MZ9dzBZeFI it would figure someone else already filmed someone pressurizing one. :P
[15:06:56] <Loetmichel> thats 175 psi ;-)
[15:07:31] <furrywolf> if you're set on nitrogen power for your fire system, how about a nitrogen powered water pump? just a big air motor screwed to a centrifical pump.
[15:08:06] <JT-Shop> better yet an air motor screwed to a triplex pump
[15:08:07] <SpeedEvil> Loetmichel: I'm actually sort-of-pondering making a tank for my compressor out of them
[15:08:30] <Loetmichel> i dont know how well they take repeated stress to be sure
[15:08:30] <furrywolf> the popped tank in that video was at 14psi. you might note that its useful service pressure is well below that.
[15:08:51] <Loetmichel> furrywolf: to big in size
[15:09:03] <Loetmichel> if you wnat high pressure you need small vessels
[15:09:11] <Loetmichel> easier to get them to withstand that ;)
[15:09:17] <furrywolf> are you convinced yet that you are NOT pressurizing one to 30psi? :P
[15:09:20] <Loetmichel> use more if you need volume ;-)
[15:09:47] <furrywolf> Loetmichel: talk to jymm, not me. he wants to pressurize one to 30psi. :P
[15:09:55] <Loetmichel> hihi right
[15:10:00] <Loetmichel> not a good idea
[15:10:19] <Jymmm> 14psi burst
[15:10:40] <Jymmm> "No problem" instant delivery of 300gal =)
[15:10:44] <Spida> Loetmichel: I had a 1.5l coke bottle (PET) explode after being dropped about 30cm... bottom popped out, bottle shot up like a rocket.
[15:11:16] <Deejay> yeah, coke everywhere :D
[15:11:20] <SpeedEvil> Jymmm: people have died due to hot water showers :(
[15:11:40] <Loetmichel> Spida: single way recycling or the deposit bottle kind?
[15:12:09] <Jymmm> Then how does pex work for plumbing ?
[15:12:20] <Spida> I have see fire supression systems with > 100 50l bottles of argon though, that were intended to work similarly: drop the bottles to open the valves. the room to be flooded had several square meteres of pressure relief openings...
[15:12:32] <JT-Shop> soda carbonation pressure is 25-30 psig
[15:12:39] <SpeedEvil> http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-506604/Water-tank-fault-scalded-baby-girl-death-known-unreliable.html though that was a wierd one
[15:13:14] <SpeedEvil> hot water tank thermostat failed, leading to boiling. The overflow vent was inside the cold water tank, which was not hot rated.
[15:13:27] <Loetmichel> spida: the kind of coke bottles that withstand 175 psi are the 1 liter deposit pet bottles
[15:13:31] <Jymmm> SpeedEvil: lovely
[15:13:33] <Loetmichel> the ones with about 2mm thick walls
[15:13:34] <SpeedEvil> the continual boiling and overflow of water heated the cold tank and caused it eventuially to collapse
[15:14:04] <Loetmichel> not the ones that collapse as soon as you open them
[15:15:01] <Jymmm> Heh, I saw a flow pump collapse a 5000gal SS tank once... scared the fuck out of everyone
[15:16:01] <furrywolf> grrr, stupid fucking internet connection.
[15:16:16] <furrywolf> <furrywolf> 14psi burst, of a new tank in good condition, AFTER severe damage to the steel frame. a used tank that's been out in the sun a bit, burst is going to be much lower. a service pressure is always a fraction of burst pressure for safety rating.
[15:16:17] <Jymmm> someone forgot to open the top valve
[15:16:19] <furrywolf> <furrywolf> according to one google result, the pressure rating is 2.9psi. and they apparantly fail at that pressure.
[15:16:19] <furrywolf> <furrywolf> and that burst was pretty mild because it was filled entirely with water. fill one 1/4 with water and 3/4 with 30psi gas and watch what happens...
[15:16:24] <SpeedEvil> just turn it backwards, and it'll be fine
[15:16:26] <furrywolf> <furrywolf> Jymmm: you really need to do some research before coming up with ideas. :P
[15:16:47] <Spida> Loetmichel: I think it was 1.5l, but certainly deposit, not one way.
[15:17:22] <furrywolf> bbl, I'm off to the scrapyard to look for enclosure-building materials.
[15:17:26] <Spida> Loetmichel: it was at the end of it's lifespan, though, like the other bottles of the same case... very brittle, cracks starting to show at the bottom
[15:19:00] <Loetmichel> ok then
[15:19:34] <Loetmichel> i used to make water rockets out of 1l coke and fanta bottles, thats why i know they fail above 12 bar
[15:19:48] <XXCoder1> heh I miss toy water rocket
[15:19:53] <Loetmichel> and usually the plastic cap slips off the thread, not the bottle fails
[15:20:25] <furrywolf> put a hose clamp around the cap
[15:20:26] <furrywolf> bbl
[15:20:38] <XXCoder1> not when you wanna launch it
[15:20:47] <Loetmichel> furrywolf: actuall its quite nice that they fail in that way
[15:20:53] <Loetmichel> kind of a pressure relief valve
[15:21:06] <Loetmichel> better than trwowing PET shreds around
[15:24:02] <XXCoder1> indeed
[15:24:11] <XXCoder1> hmm dry ice powered rocket
[15:24:20] <XXCoder1> wonder how well that would work
[15:24:50] <SpeedEvil> Not very well.
[15:25:03] <SpeedEvil> There is no reason for most of it to evaporate
[15:25:39] * JT-Shop is sure glad he had a leather glove on or he would be missing a bunch of skin right not
[15:26:23] <Jymmm> HAHA this is funny... http://sfbay.craigslist.org/sby/fod/5014567955.html
[15:27:19] <Jymmm> and the follow up https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ca_sxbu6FoA
[15:29:27] <_methods> JT-Shop: grinder?
[15:30:09] <JT-Shop> twisted wire wheel on 4 1/2" angle grinder
[15:30:22] <JT-Shop> I hate them almost as much as sand blasting
[15:30:23] <_methods> yeah man they'll get ya
[15:30:40] <_methods> always tuck in the shirt too heheh
[15:32:17] <JT-Shop> damn I have to clean the last part in HCL... dunno if I'm up for that today
[15:33:01] <Jymmm> JT-Shop: what are you cleaning?
[15:33:27] <_methods> you anodizing or something?
[15:34:53] <JT-Shop> powder coating but it has some rust inside the tube
[15:35:00] <_methods> ah
[15:35:02] <JT-Shop> steel part Jymmm
[15:35:39] <JT-Shop> I wish I had the balls to pour acid in my anodizing line and fire it up
[15:35:53] <_methods> heheh
[15:36:07] <JT-Shop> it's ready to go AFAIK
[15:38:15] <_methods> painting/powdercoating/anodizing i leave to the pros
[15:38:35] <_methods> its usually fairly cheap and i don't have to worry about the mess
[15:39:08] <_methods> and chrome plate too lol
[15:39:22] <_methods> you couldn't pay me enough to mess with that stuff
[15:42:33] <JT-Shop> no one near me does that kind of stuff, the nearest one is 1 1/2 hours from me one way
[15:42:45] <JT-Shop> the heck with it I'm cleaning it
[15:43:14] * Jymmm hands JT-Shop respirator
[15:43:16] <JT-Shop> _methods, I'm powder coating the rack I made for the BlueWing
[15:43:30] <XXCoder1> cheese lol
[15:43:44] <JT-Shop> up your nose?
[15:44:10] <XXCoder1> smoked cheese
[15:48:24] <_methods> oh we have a powder coater/painter right next door lol
[15:48:36] <_methods> but anodizing we ship or drop off
[15:48:42] <_methods> same with chrome
[15:48:45] <JT-Shop> the anodizer I use has a minimum dollar amount so I have to have a bunch of parts to send to them
[15:49:15] <JT-Shop> they are on the other side of the state from me so it takes UPS 3 days to get there
[15:49:23] <_methods> yeah that does suck
[15:49:58] <JT-Shop> the laser cutter I use is great! and has great prices I think
[15:52:12] <JT-Shop> the powder coater is out in the middle of nowhere Arkansas and has an oven big enough to fit a car in there
[15:54:18] * Tom_itx read that as 'million dollar amount' the first time
[15:55:04] <Tom_itx> one more nice reason to live in an aircraft town... plating & anodizing available
[15:55:46] <Tom_itx> a bud of mine used to get stuff done free if he was willing to wait for the right color batch to run
[15:56:03] <JT-Shop> heh a million dollar minimum wow
[15:56:36] <Tom_itx> got PID somewhat working on the spindle now
[15:56:47] <JT-Shop> when I get the air filter parts anodized I can piggy back other small parts if I want
[15:56:51] <Tom_itx> gonna ramp up the numbers a bit later on
[15:56:53] <JT-Shop> cool
[15:57:11] <Tom_itx> way too much effort for just a sherline for sure
[15:57:13] <JT-Shop> spindle PID is a bit different than an axis IIRC
[15:57:21] <Tom_itx> yeah velocity
[15:57:54] <Tom_itx> soon as i remount the spindle to the machine i'm gonna try tapping some stuff
[15:58:00] <JT-Shop> http://gnipsel.com/linuxcnc/tuning/spindle.html
[15:58:19] <JT-Shop> tap some butter first
[15:58:40] <Tom_itx> pcw suggested leaving FF0 at 1 and using P & I
[15:59:03] <JT-Shop> I was pretty sure I got that info from peter
[15:59:09] <Tom_itx> i've been tuning a bit different than that
[15:59:28] <Tom_itx> i set P just under the setpoint at any given speed
[15:59:42] <Tom_itx> and am using I to catch up without overshooting
[15:59:56] <Tom_itx> i had to add a limit for extreme conditions
[16:00:12] <Tom_itx> like S5000 then issuing a S100
[16:00:15] <Tom_itx> it would run away
[16:00:40] <Tom_itx> it's not something you would normally do but it should be tested anyway
[16:01:46] <Tom_itx> i did similar to your page, just used P instead of FF0
[16:01:49] <JT-Shop> when turning with CSS you can go from slow to fast and back
[16:02:01] <Tom_itx> yeah on a lathe
[16:02:24] <Tom_itx> mill spindle is more constant speed per tool
[16:02:31] <JT-Shop> yea
[16:02:39] <JT-Shop> except for tapping
[16:02:56] <JT-Shop> then it is as fast as possible reverse
[16:03:19] <Tom_itx> my reverse has a pause
[16:03:28] <Tom_itx> it doesn't snap to reverse
[16:03:38] <Tom_itx> i did that so it wouldn't blow out the control
[16:03:44] <Tom_itx> since it wasn't really designed for that
[16:04:14] <Tom_itx> the control has a settable pause time as well, i'm just enabling it
[16:04:23] <Tom_itx> i need to shorten it a bit once i get it all working right
[16:04:31] <Tom_itx> it's just a pot adjustment on the driver
[16:04:51] <Tom_itx> i just use lcnc to enable it during switching FWD/REV
[16:05:06] <Tom_itx> may save the relay contacts a bit
[16:05:11] <Tom_itx> as well
[16:07:07] <JT-Shop> test thread some air
[16:07:35] <JT-Shop> I guess it won't matter as the axis follows the spindle
[16:08:17] <Tom_itx> right
[16:09:29] <Tom_itx> if the axis has too much backlash comp it could pull the thread
[16:09:49] <JT-Shop> dang part is still bubbling, must have been more rust on the inside than I thought
[16:09:58] <Tom_itx> it all gets dumped in on the first axis direction change
[16:10:12] <JT-Shop> yea, backlash comp is bad
[16:11:16] <Tom_itx> i need to see how much there is on z
[16:13:05] <Tom_itx> i wonder how FF0 differs from P
[16:15:30] <Tom_itx> looks like P is the error multiplied by the P gain and FF0 is the commanded value multiplied by FF0
[16:16:01] <Tom_itx> similar but different
[16:16:49] <Jymmm> Heh, guess I'll have to find one of these... https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=ahydd_9lXYY#t=329
[16:16:53] <Deejay> gn8
[16:18:20] <Tom_itx> Jymmm it'll plug up with leaves
[16:18:38] <Tom_itx> well the ones that use streams will
[16:18:57] <Jymmm> Tom_itx: Yeah, that's what screens are for =)
[16:19:09] <Tom_itx> she even talks about clogs
[16:19:23] <Jymmm> I like her donkey =)
[16:19:29] <Tom_itx> 1:37 she gives it a blowjob
[16:21:48] <Jymmm> Eh, I haven't had to think about non-city water for a very long time.
[16:23:47] <Jymmm> Hell, I don't even know where to find a mech pump locally, or parts for one
[16:26:58] <MattyMatt> gourds on a rope
[16:27:57] <MattyMatt> with the donkey on the windlass
[16:31:54] <MattyMatt> how daft is THIS idea. instead of buying a miniature qctp toolholder, a miniature insert tool holder, and miniature inserts, would it make sense to buy a larger insert holder and grind the qctp dovetails into the shank?
[16:33:01] <MattyMatt> sherline do a qc holder that takes an insert directly like that
[16:35:14] <_methods> that would work the holders are hardened though and can be a pain to machine without carbide
[16:36:29] <rob_h> apart from cheap holders they never seem very hard compared to your seco, walter etc
[16:37:40] <_methods> might be a dovetail cutter killer roughing out the area shouldn't be too big of a deal
[16:38:02] <_methods> but entry and exit for the dovetail will be hell
[16:38:09] <MattyMatt> I'd rough it with an angle grinder tbh :)
[16:38:24] <_methods> yeah probably your best bet
[16:38:58] <MattyMatt> maybe a braxed plat on top to hold the height adjuster
[16:39:03] <MattyMatt> brazed plae
[16:39:06] <MattyMatt> plate
[16:39:11] <_methods> just drill and tap a hole for it
[16:40:59] <MattyMatt> worth considering. tooling stops getting cheaper below a certain size. bigger tooling is better value
[16:41:03] <_methods> schweet ipv6 all set up
[16:41:14] <_methods> easier to get bigger tooling
[16:41:24] <Jymmm> _methods: ipv8 ftw
[16:41:30] <_methods> those axa holders and 1/2 shank holders are suck
[16:41:42] <_methods> FU and your ipv8
[16:41:49] <_methods> i got ipv6 so suck it
[16:41:49] <Jymmm> hahahaha
[16:42:04] <Jymmm> _methods: well, assign an p to the toaster already!
[16:42:08] <Jymmm> ip*
[16:42:10] <_methods> hahah
[16:42:11] <_methods> yeah
[16:42:18] <MattyMatt> i'm 3/8" max on my current 4 way, trying to decide what qctp system to go with
[16:42:49] <_methods> well i wanted to get one of those swiss ones but i just went with aloris wedge style
[16:43:14] <_methods> way easier to get tool holders and attachments for
[16:43:15] <_methods> and cheaper
[16:44:08] <MattyMatt> in UK, I'd be best off with a myford compatible one, but they're a bit big for my lathe I think
[16:45:08] <MattyMatt> dovetails with a ram, iirc
[16:45:20] <_methods> yeah aloris style probably
[16:46:57] <Jymmm> Is that just a fancy valve, or actually a pump too? http://i.imgur.com/G8V67Or.png
[16:48:07] <_methods> i've seen them used as both pump/valve
[16:48:21] <Jymmm> I can't find info on it, wasn't sure.
[16:48:25] <_methods> or ones that look like it
[16:48:53] <Jymmm> from this video https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=ahydd_9lXYY#t=323
[16:49:50] <Jymmm> she says "special pump" *shrug*
[16:50:47] <MattyMatt> maybe it has just enough pump in it to start a syphon or prime an artesian
[16:51:22] * MattyMatt english. more than enough water falls from the sky
[16:52:32] <MattyMatt> and then flows efficiently into victorian drains, so pumps are beyond our ken
[16:53:00] <Jymmm> No clue, just wish I could find info on it to be sure
[16:54:15] <MattyMatt> I've seen taps like that on feeding troughs. the padlock eye is to stop the beasts working it
[16:54:54] <MattyMatt> and to stop tinkers having baths
[16:56:05] <MattyMatt> it's just a tap I think, the lever arms are just part of the nice springy action
[16:56:53] <JT-Shop> Jymmm, that is a yard faucet
[16:57:00] <Tom_itx> Jymmm that pipe just looks like a freeze valve
[16:57:20] <Tom_itx> shutoff below grade with a drainoff
[16:58:14] <JT-Shop> yep, when close the faucet the upper part drains out
[16:58:39] <Tom_itx> http://www.butlerlumbercoinc.com/images/Hyd-Dimens-Dwgtext2.jpg
[16:58:49] <JT-Shop> I put one at Dads house
[16:59:23] <Tom_itx> http://www.griggindustries.com/media/ClaytonHydrant.jpg
[17:00:39] <Tom_itx> http://www.build.com/proflo-pfem7502-hydrant/s992446?uid=2443755&gclid=CjwKEAjwpsGqBRCioKet--bp_QcSJADCtbsbYq2LhHG-qP7q3r4i3Vwz92LwN27nmy0Z0oJtqDmVKxoC1z7w_wcB&source=gg-gba-pla_2443755____49842551959&ef_id=VTbjiAAABLNNZGLc:20150511213606:s
[17:00:41] <JT-Shop> CaptHindsight, I notice none of your products have pricing
[17:00:42] <Tom_itx> bargain priced too
[17:08:35] <malcom2073> No price, so it's free yeah?
[17:12:49] <zeeshan> this might be a silly question
[17:12:59] <zeeshan> but is there a light bulb that can i can put in a 300C chamber?
[17:13:14] <zeeshan> i notice ovens have incadescent bulbs
[17:14:25] <CaptHindsight> JT-Shop: none? which ones?
[17:15:09] <JT-Shop> none of the ones I looked at had any pricing
[17:15:21] <JT-Shop> you only see it when you add it to your cart
[17:15:28] <CaptHindsight> yeah
[17:15:31] <JT-Shop> have you looked at Opencart?
[17:16:26] <CaptHindsight> not really, paypal works for most hobbyists
[17:16:32] <JT-Shop> gotta run\
[17:18:49] <andypugh> zeeshan: Oven bulbs are a special thing
[17:18:58] <zeeshan> how so
[17:19:03] <CaptHindsight> and if you're buying 200Kg you aren't going to use Paypal
[17:19:40] <andypugh> zeeshan: MAinly being rated to 300C: https://www.tlc-direct.co.uk/Products/LAOV25SES.html
[17:20:05] <zeeshan> nice!
[17:20:21] <zeeshan> http://www.homedepot.com/p/Philips-40-Watt-Incandescent-A15-Clear-Appliance-Light-Bulb-416768/202762704
[17:20:25] <zeeshan> this looks like a regular bulb to me tho
[17:23:04] <Rab> Would you expect it to look different?
[17:23:06] <andypugh> There is a similar one (available by the case) that mentions “oven”
[17:23:40] <andypugh> But I am also amazed by http://www.homedepot.com/p/Ryobi-18-Volt-ONE-Lithium-Ion-Super-Combo-Kit-4-Piece-P883/203466914?MERCH=RV-_-rv_search_plp_rr-_-NA-_-203466914-_-N because in the UK that would be a decent price for one of the tools. :-(
[17:24:09] <zeeshan> its rigid brand :P
[17:24:29] <Rab> Glass/metal/tungsten don't melt at 300C, I think the differences might be the base and filament connections being able to withstand greater thermal cycling.
[17:24:35] <andypugh> No, it’s Ryobi
[17:24:39] <zeeshan> http://i.imgur.com/Leq6Wx3.jpg ; http://i.imgur.com/0Onzg8I.jpg
[17:24:49] <zeeshan> im haxin the environmental chamber at school
[17:24:58] <zeeshan> im thinking it might be just easier to modif ythis chamber vs make my own
[17:25:07] <zeeshan> i wanna finish my masters and gtfo asap
[17:25:25] <zeeshan> http://i.imgur.com/z8luyhe.jpg
[17:25:28] <zeeshan> i need more lighting here
[17:25:37] <zeeshan> i need to make the glass window bigger too
[17:38:49] <SpeedEvil> Or don't, and just jam in several webcams
[17:39:54] <andypugh> I imagine that an oven bulb has glass insulators everywhere, no plastic and high MP solder on the terminals
[17:41:23] <zeeshan> not sure :P
[17:41:42] <andypugh> zeeshan: http://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_from=R40&_trksid=p2050601.m570.l1313.TR1.TRC0.A0.H0.Xoven+lamp.TRS0&_nkw=oven+lamp&_sacat=0
[17:41:49] <zeeshan> http://img.wonderhowto.com/img/47/19/63501210739354/0/replace-oven-light-socket.1280x600.jpg
[17:41:53] <zeeshan> looks like a ceramic socket
[17:42:04] <andypugh> yes, that too
[17:42:33] <zeeshan> if i make the front window large enough
[17:42:36] <SpeedEvil> I've been contemplating kiln-cams.
[17:42:42] <zeeshan> maybe i can just shine diffuse light from the outside
[17:42:44] <Jymmm> Tom_itx: thank you
[17:43:07] <SpeedEvil> little quartz test-tube, with a pokeable-in test tube filled with water or something similar and a waterproof camera.
[17:43:21] <zeeshan> SpeedEvil: im doing infrared thermography + direct image correlation
[17:43:33] <zeeshan> for the dic i need it to be fairly lit up nicely
[17:44:17] <SpeedEvil> zeeshan: Ah - well - on a related matter - I currently have a small pile of quartz halogen bulbs I'm intending to use to prototype a kiln.
[17:44:31] <SpeedEvil> zeeshan: intended to go to ~1000C
[17:44:35] <andypugh> What on earth? http://www.ebay.com/itm/Baby-Safe-Anti-swallowing-WSDCN-E14-T25-15W-120V-Oven-Bulb-Lamp-300C-/161328303852?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item258fea8eec
[17:44:36] <zeeshan> jeez! :P
[17:44:56] <SpeedEvil> Mst babies will not swallow things at 300C
[17:45:00] <zeeshan> lol
[17:45:23] <zeeshan> i guess youd use mg wire
[17:45:28] <zeeshan> attached to the light bulb socket?
[17:45:32] <zeeshan> mg wire is rated for liek 450C
[17:45:48] <andypugh> I think PTFE would be OK?
[17:45:52] <zeeshan> http://www.awcwire.com/Portals/0/CVStoreImages/mg_wire_group_400.jpg
[17:45:53] <zeeshan> that stuff
[17:46:11] <SpeedEvil> There are reportedly 'hot end' quartz halogen tubes designed to work in hot environments
[17:46:19] <zeeshan> tcgt (teflon insulated) wire
[17:46:21] <zeeshan> is rated for 250C
[17:46:37] <andypugh> Normally the wire is outside the chamber
[17:46:46] <zeeshan> im being lazy
[17:46:46] <zeeshan> haha
[17:46:49] <zeeshan> you see the spot on the top?
[17:46:51] <andypugh> MIC
[17:46:52] <zeeshan> i wanna make a housing that goes there :P
[17:47:42] <andypugh> Though I actually rather like fishspine beads for the old-school look.
[17:49:44] <andypugh> It seems that they don’t call them that on ebay.com http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/200-x-Steatite-Fishspine-Insulating-Beads-Die-Pressed-Interlocking-Size-2-/390749061174?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_3&hash=item5afa758036
[17:53:01] <furrywolf> got 16ft of nice aluminum angle for making the corners of the box, a nice heavy piece of sheet for the back side, but they didn't have any thin stuff I liked for the rest of the box.
[17:53:39] <furrywolf> also checked their pile of plugs, got a 50a 125/250 twistlock like I needed... but the wrong gender. decided it was cheap enough to get anyway, just in case I want to make something that plugs into the other side of the box.
[17:53:56] <SpeedEvil> :)
[17:54:17] <furrywolf> also got a http://www.groundhoginc.com/productview.php?iProductID=5 that doesn't run. runs perfectly off starting fluid, no sign of fuel - likely just a stuck needle valve.
[17:55:17] <Jymmm> Tom_itx: Interesting... "Not approved for potable water application"
[17:56:28] <Jymmm> furrywolf: connect to tire hub and you get a log splitter =)
[17:56:46] <furrywolf> ?
[17:57:42] <furrywolf> it's in beautiful shape... looks close to new. has rental stickers from a hardware store a town over on it. my guess is it stopped running, and someone decided it was cheaper to scrap it and get a new one than to rebuild the carb.
[17:58:04] <furrywolf> well, not quite like new, but if I pressure wash the mud off, then it'll look like new.
[17:58:49] <Jymmm> furrywolf: http://imgur.com/G8V67Or
[17:59:10] <Jymmm> or https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=89O6j1SOUVs
[17:59:13] <andypugh> furrywolf: Getting one from a rental store a town over and not returning it can be very cost-effective.
[17:59:36] <furrywolf> andypugh: things like that happen often enough the scrapyard knows it. lol
[17:59:45] <furrywolf> and it's definitely non-functional.
[18:00:17] <furrywolf> Jymmm: it's a valve or a pump?
[18:00:47] <Jymmm> furrywolf: It's a anti-freeze valve
[18:00:57] <Jymmm> thanks to Tom_itx
[18:01:08] <furrywolf> ah, one of the ones with the actual valve way underground?
[18:01:53] <Jymmm> yeah
[18:02:04] <SpeedEvil> furrywolf: there totally has to be a market for a tiny fuel injector system to replace carbs.
[18:02:04] <Jymmm> http://www.butlerlumbercoinc.com/images/Hyd-Dimens-Dwgtext2.jpg
[18:02:31] <SpeedEvil> furrywolf: to cope with ~.5-3hp engines say.
[18:02:41] <Jymmm> she says "pump" in the video, but that be an awfully short stroke for a pump
[18:03:06] <andypugh> SpeedEvil: How tiny? http://www.f1-2000.co.uk/index.php?f=fuel_injectors
[18:03:23] <SpeedEvil> andypugh: yeah - seen that - awesome.
[18:03:24] <furrywolf> around here it only gets cold enough to freeze things every few years, and rarely any damage.
[18:03:31] <SpeedEvil> andypugh: I was meaning more mass produced though :)
[18:03:43] <Jymmm> andypugh: This tiny... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xGTbQuhhluY
[18:03:56] <furrywolf> it'd have to be an all-in-one unit the same size and shape as a carb, that your average small engine mechanic wouldn't need too many helpers to figure out how to hook up.
[18:03:57] <andypugh> Apparently people keep asking him to make injectors for their pet projects.
[18:04:05] <SpeedEvil> andypugh: heh
[18:04:42] <SpeedEvil> furrywolf: yeah - I have one of those, with ~0.1 hours on it.
[18:05:22] <andypugh> Jymmm: Cripes that’s a lot of fuel flow
[18:05:39] <Jymmm> andypugh: hahaha, yes, yes it is =)
[18:05:48] <furrywolf> one of what?
[18:05:56] <SpeedEvil> furrywolf: post-hole diggers.
[18:06:07] <SpeedEvil> furrywolf: I need to replace my fence - it's been a while.
[18:06:45] <Jymmm> SpeedEvil: excuse to get a bobcat with augar attachement?
[18:06:56] <furrywolf> this one didn't come with the auger bit... but presumably one is a lot cheaper than the power unit.
[18:07:13] <andypugh> furrywolf: I wouldn’t actuallybet on that
[18:07:36] <Jymmm> SpeedEvil: http://i.ytimg.com/vi/enDWBINad48/maxresdefault.jpg
[18:09:16] <SpeedEvil> Jymmm: posssibly
[18:09:26] <Jymmm> I want one, but I've seen ppl that have been using them for years flip them over
[18:09:40] <SpeedEvil> furrywolf: plus - you now have a high torque low RPM motor.
[18:09:50] <SpeedEvil> furrywolf: fun for any number of applicaitons.
[18:09:58] <furrywolf> yep
[18:10:00] <SpeedEvil> Mixing, winching, ...
[18:10:08] <furrywolf> a friend was asking me about well drilling the other day...
[18:10:32] <furrywolf> I could easily make a auger-to-drillstring-swivel adapter. :)
[18:15:02] <furrywolf> http://www.deeprock.com/HD/Default.aspx if you look at one of those, it really is nothing more than a post hole auger on a stand.
[18:16:07] <furrywolf> except this auger is fancier - it uses a commercial horizontal-shaft engine, not a lawnmower engine.
[18:17:52] <SpeedEvil> yeah - the above is really handy especially if you don't want to fall over a lot :)
[18:19:35] <furrywolf> I made the stand for mine out of 2x4s and deck screws... worked great.
[18:20:31] <furrywolf> hrmm, I think the only pic I have uploaded is the bit... http://fw.bushytails.net/wellbit01.jpg
[18:20:51] <renesis> primitive
[18:21:27] <renesis> ha, how did you cut the barbs?
[18:21:41] <furrywolf> angle grinder. :P
[18:21:52] <renesis> i thought oxy-jet cutting but it looks drilled and ripped
[18:21:56] <renesis> haha hacker
[18:22:24] <furrywolf> it worked. how did your well drilling bit work? :P
[18:22:49] <renesis> i dont know wtf a well is
[18:23:09] <furrywolf> then don't complain? :P
[18:23:17] <renesis> i was complimenting!
[18:23:29] <renesis> and water comes from water filters, water from dirt is nasty
[18:24:12] <furrywolf> ... lol
[18:25:51] <furrywolf> apparantly all the standard augers use a 3/4" round shaft, while ground hog uses a 7/8" square shaft. so I can buy a $130 bit, or buy a $30 bit and weld a $5 adapter.
[18:27:05] <SpeedEvil> furrywolf: Or buy ten $30 bits and ebay
[18:28:59] <furrywolf> or I can weld a bunch of split circles of sheet to a piece of pipe...
[18:30:23] <furrywolf> http://www.ebay.com/itm/Auger-Post-Hole-Digger-Bit-Carbon-Steel-Wide-Skid-Steer-Drill-Bit-/251760938680 nice and cheap
[18:30:29] <furrywolf> but they all have the wrong drive
[18:31:12] <furrywolf> $38.75 with free shipping for 8" by 30"... not worth making your own at that price.
[18:59:44] <Tom_itx> Jymmm she must be used to short strokes
[19:09:42] <Tom_itx> Jymmm there are also videos of similar setups running a turbine for a generator
[19:39:46] <Tom_itx> what happens in a PID loop if the I term is too high?
[19:40:02] <Tom_itx> i know the P term will oscillate
[19:48:46] <furrywolf> posthole auger runs like a top
[19:49:16] <furrywolf> I'd suspect also oscillation, since I is P * time...
[19:51:43] <Tom_itx> i always thouht I was acumulated error
[19:52:37] <Tom_itx> anyway this is working good enough for any sherline i own
[19:53:02] <Tom_itx> it struggles at 10rpm
[19:53:15] <Tom_itx> but 100 and above it does ok
[20:01:09] <Tom_itx> i think if I gets too high, it wanders around the setpoint and never quite settles on it
[20:02:03] * zeeshan is rebuilding power drawbar
[20:02:11] <zeeshan> man im glad im a picture taking whore
[20:02:14] <zeeshan> it saved my butt.
[20:02:25] <zeeshan> i forgot the orientation of the collar nut here:
[20:02:36] <zeeshan> http://c1.staticflickr.com/9/8642/16412452615_ee07cc4ad3_h.jpg
[20:02:40] <Tom_itx> haha
[20:02:41] <zeeshan> luckily its there! :D
[20:03:00] <zeeshan> that grayish thing
[20:03:09] <zeeshan> i guess evertyhing is gray :p
[20:03:10] <Tom_itx> zeeshan what setup did you have when you graphed your pid?
[20:03:26] <zeeshan> for servo tuning?
[20:03:30] <zeeshan> for hal scope?
[20:03:33] <Tom_itx> yeah
[20:03:39] <Tom_itx> i thought about plotting my spindle
[20:03:44] <Tom_itx> just for kicks
[20:03:47] <zeeshan> picture whore time !
[20:03:48] <zeeshan> http://i.imgur.com/0goQRLO.png
[20:04:00] <zeeshan> axis.#.f-error
[20:04:17] <zeeshan> hm2_5i25.0.7i77.0.1.analogout#
[20:04:28] <Tom_itx> what did you trigger on?
[20:04:44] <zeeshan> source channel 2 (which was the analogout one)
[20:04:57] <zeeshan> and just force the trigger first
[20:05:24] <zeeshan> then increase the gain on analogout, then move the position of the trigger so it does it @ the on ramp of the analogout
[20:05:55] <zeeshan> just force the trigger first <- quickly turn on your spindle after this
[20:06:32] <Tom_itx> you should be able to just have it trigger on something
[20:07:08] <zeeshan> i just "made it work"
[20:07:13] <zeeshan> didnt look at it too much into detail :(
[20:07:28] <Tom_itx> meh, i'm gonna write some tap code instead
[20:07:35] <zeeshan> about your question earlier
[20:07:57] <zeeshan> when we were analyzing higher order systems.. integral gain reduced the steady state error
[20:08:18] <zeeshan> but if you went overkill with the gain, youd get an excessively under damped system
[20:08:23] <zeeshan> er overdamped not under
[20:08:44] <Tom_itx> that's what i said... it will wander around the setpoint and never quite settle on it
[20:09:18] <Tom_itx> but with a low I term it will take longer to reach the setpoint
[20:09:44] <Tom_itx> maybe D will kick it in the arse
[20:09:53] <Tom_itx> it's not too bad like it is really
[20:10:04] <Tom_itx> helluva lot better than without
[20:10:13] <zeeshan> are you tuning a velocity loop
[20:10:20] <Tom_itx> i was
[20:10:26] <zeeshan> why
[20:10:32] <zeeshan> =D
[20:10:40] <zeeshan> to fix your too slow rpm thing?
[20:10:42] <Tom_itx> for spindle speed control
[20:10:53] <Tom_itx> it's pretty close now
[20:11:14] <zeeshan> nice
[20:11:15] <Tom_itx> before i added pid it wouldn't even spin less than S500
[20:11:17] <zeeshan> post some graphs! :P
[20:11:28] <Tom_itx> now i can get S10 but it wanders around it
[20:11:35] <zeeshan> ill be back, my drawbar is on the hydraulic press under pressure
[20:11:43] <Tom_itx> gonna go cad a while
[20:11:53] <Tom_itx> maybe put the mill back together
[20:13:08] <Tom_itx> zeeshan, your drawbar isn't gonna escape.. you have it pinned down
[20:15:28] <malcom2073> Anyone checked out onshape yet?
[20:16:59] <CaptHindsight> "Onshape is the first and only full-cloud 3D CAD system" I hate it already
[20:17:32] <malcom2073> It was done by the guy who started solidworks, it actually feels very similar to solidworks.
[20:17:36] <Tom_itx> i don't need no cloudy day
[20:17:47] <malcom2073> And at the price point of free it's much more appealing
[20:17:47] <CaptHindsight> do you really want your CAD on the cloud?
[20:18:08] <Tom_itx> i don't want anything on the cloud
[20:18:11] <CaptHindsight> people were too smart for this 15 years ago (and connections were slower)
[20:18:39] <Tom_itx> marketing painted it up nice though
[20:18:42] <CaptHindsight> now people are lining up to have their applications and data held hostage by "the cloud"
[20:19:14] <CaptHindsight> pay up or it's gone, oops we went out of business, sorry your data is gone
[20:19:27] <CaptHindsight> no internet no data
[20:19:28] <malcom2073> CaptHindsight: Except it's not gone, it's still on your local PC O_o
[20:20:01] <Tom_itx> but it's still out there too
[20:20:29] * Tom_itx plugs in a usb drive and calls it his cloud
[20:20:39] <malcom2073> Tin foil hat aside
[20:20:51] <CaptHindsight> it could be a learning tool but I doubt it
[20:21:11] <malcom2073> At 318 million of seed funding, someone thinks it's worth something
[20:21:26] <CaptHindsight> suckers
[20:21:47] <Jymmm> "ISIS Cloud Service"
[20:21:50] <malcom2073> I like it. I'll let them have my data to let me use a solidworks power level 3d modeling system.
[20:22:36] <CaptHindsight> how much money did internet companies raise back on the late 90's for all sorts of nonsense that went belly up in months?
[20:22:51] <Jymmm> "It's 10pm, do you know WHERE your data is at?"
[20:22:54] <malcom2073> CaptHindsight: The bubble has long since burst
[20:23:15] <CaptHindsight> malcom2073: here we go again
[20:23:24] <malcom2073> heh nah
[20:23:33] <malcom2073> Figured I'd ask, got exactly the response I expected though :(
[20:23:56] <CaptHindsight> well you're pretty gullible
[20:24:10] <CaptHindsight> you might grow out of it
[20:24:34] <malcom2073> Nah, then I'd become grumpy and quick to judge :P
[20:24:49] <CaptHindsight> you sound well trained
[20:24:54] <Jymmm> malcom2073: what do you mean "would" ?
[20:25:07] <CaptHindsight> hasta citizen/comrade
[20:28:54] <Jymmm> If hundreds of spiders freak you out, don't watch... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3KMaVsJu7Gg
[20:49:10] <zeeshan> sigh
[20:49:15] <zeeshan> service manual calls for loctite 221
[20:49:19] <zeeshan> "low strength"
[20:49:33] <Tom_itx> substitute the red stuff
[20:49:49] <zeeshan> i only got loctite blue 242 and red 271
[20:50:11] <zeeshan> im wondering if itll make it a pain in the ass to disassemble
[20:50:17] <Tom_itx> you sure the loctite 221 isn't smeared and it really says 271 ? :)
[20:50:23] <zeeshan> haha trust me
[20:50:47] <Tom_itx> use the blue then
[20:51:05] <zeeshan> https://www.dropbox.com/s/py3dxox4b4lai4c/
[20:51:48] <zeeshan> this was actually pretty easy to rebuild
[20:51:56] <zeeshan> the question is will it blow up
[20:52:03] <zeeshan> and will it blend
[20:52:30] <Tom_itx> that's a big thread
[20:52:40] <Tom_itx> you may not wanna lock it forever
[20:52:41] <zeeshan> yea
[20:52:44] <zeeshan> its like m40 or something
[20:53:02] <zeeshan> you cant heat that guy up either
[20:53:05] <zeeshan> cause its the rotary union
[21:12:43] <furrywolf> blue is pretty easy to disassemble
[21:13:10] <furrywolf> if you're worried about too tight, use less.
[21:17:39] <furrywolf> I got the post hole auger seemingly working well... the throttle linkage was sticky, oiled it, adjusted a spring, adjusted the cable, backed down the idle (it was WAAAY up), cleaned the carb (was quite shiny already), and oiled the clutch bearing, since it was making the clutch drag.
[21:17:45] <furrywolf> now I just need a bit.
[21:26:48] <harold> hi guys
[21:26:53] <harold> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lr6bP0mBjK4
[21:26:56] <harold> what do you think of that
[21:29:41] <CaptHindsight> kitten free
[21:34:00] ChanServ changed topic of #linuxcnc to: LinuxCNC is a linux-based open-source CNC control. | Latest release: 2.6.8 | http://www.linuxcnc.org
[21:36:50] <cradek> yay!
[21:50:35] <furrywolf> does 2.6.8 support mesa ethernet, or still need 2.7 for that?
[21:59:30] <Jymmm> http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2507063/Big-green-bus-Double-decker-transformed-caravan-holiday-home.html
[22:15:35] <Tom_itx> furrywolf, no
[22:20:53] <furrywolf> oh well. not like I can afford one anyway.
[22:21:20] <Tom_itx> you can load 2.7 ya know
[22:23:07] <furrywolf> can I apt-get a few hundred bucks? :)
[22:23:19] <Tom_itx> pimp yourself
[22:23:47] <Tom_itx> do you have parport?
[22:23:53] <Tom_itx> why not a 7i90?
[22:24:00] <furrywolf> I have parport now, on a laptop.
[22:24:22] <Tom_itx> will the laptop run lcnc ok?
[22:24:26] <Tom_itx> i kinda doubt it
[22:24:39] <furrywolf> excellent latency as long as I don't do anything that triggers any part of the power management
[22:24:52] <Tom_itx> turn it all off
[22:25:00] <furrywolf> or initialize a video. (playing is ok, just can't initalize it)
[22:25:01] <Tom_itx> is it a standard parport?
[22:25:03] <Tom_itx> epp
[22:25:08] <furrywolf> none of it can be turned off
[22:25:56] <furrywolf> <14us no matter how hard I abuse it... 100,000us if I change the screen brightness, switch to battery, etc. heh.
[22:26:36] <Tom_itx> get that 7i90 parport card, it's cheap
[22:26:49] <Tom_itx> no guarantee your parport will work on it
[22:26:57] <Tom_itx> if it's standard it should
[22:27:34] <Tom_itx> i'm using the 7i90 with a 7i47 daughter card
[22:27:39] <Tom_itx> 7i47S now
[22:27:43] <Tom_itx> spindle control
[22:28:03] <furrywolf> I decided a 7i76e would be a good fit for the machine and computer.
[22:28:30] <Tom_itx> i decided the 7i90 was a good fit for my wallet
[22:28:41] <Tom_itx> 72 io
[22:29:51] <furrywolf> still adds up to $130, and I'm still stuck with parport.
[22:30:10] <Tom_itx> how's that a problem?
[22:31:15] <furrywolf> I'm still stuck with needing realtime timing on a laptop, a bulky cable, and no upgrade path to anything newer.
[22:31:42] <furrywolf> and I seem to recall the 7i76e having better i/o in some fashion, but I could be wrong on that.
[22:31:45] <Tom_itx> you would need that on the ether card too
[22:31:59] <Tom_itx> it's just a different interface
[22:32:12] <Tom_itx> afik
[22:32:12] <furrywolf> I'd need what?
[22:32:27] <Tom_itx> rt timing
[22:32:42] <furrywolf> no, the ethernet boards only need a servo thread, no base thread.
[22:32:51] <Tom_itx> same with all mesa cards
[22:32:59] <Tom_itx> i run a servo thread only
[22:34:48] <furrywolf> if I use parport, I'm stuck with my old toughbook... can't use my new toughbook with a touchscreen...
[22:35:16] <furrywolf> parports being dead and all. :)
[22:35:30] <Tom_itx> both these asrock boards have parport
[22:35:50] <Tom_itx> and pcie
[22:36:25] <Tom_itx> oh btw, the 7i90 has 3 interfaces
[22:36:36] <Tom_itx> i'm using the parport
[22:36:40] <furrywolf> and I have no plans to set up a complete computer to go with my portable tabletop mill on a rolling cart.
[22:37:08] <furrywolf> I could build a single-board computer into the control box and try to control it remotely with a laptop, but that'll end up costing even more, and taking a lot more time.
[22:37:46] <Tom_itx> i had fun building my control
[22:37:56] <Tom_itx> and tweaking it
[22:38:32] <Tom_itx> http://tom-itx.no-ip.biz:81/~webpage/cnc/psu/psu_index.php
[22:38:51] <Tom_itx> spindle pulley mods: http://tom-itx.no-ip.biz:81/~webpage/cnc/new_pulleys/timing_pulley_index.php
[22:42:36] <Tom_itx> furrywolf do you have a mill or just the lathe?
[22:44:42] <furrywolf> I have a cnc sherline mill (the tiny one with only 3" of Y), a manual sherline lathe (tiny and old), and a shoptask lathe/mill combo machine (chinese).
[22:45:37] <furrywolf> the sherline is set up with flashcut. it needs to be linuxcnc one of these days, as flashcut is utter shit, but it works.
[22:45:43] <Tom_itx> 3" isn't much travel :)
[22:45:56] <Tom_itx> i know i used it for a long time
[22:45:59] <furrywolf> no, it's not. and it's the main reason I don't like my sherline.
[22:46:05] <Tom_itx> last ver i had was 1.41
[22:46:24] <furrywolf> they make a same-style mill with 5", and they make the multi-directional mill with even more.
[22:46:27] <Tom_itx> control is in a box now
[22:46:44] <Tom_itx> i've got the multi directional
[22:46:52] <Tom_itx> it's kinda flimsy but has more travel
[22:46:57] <furrywolf> you have more Y than I do.
[22:47:10] <Tom_itx> i can get 7x9 if i work at it
[22:47:50] <furrywolf> yes. I have 3", barely. if there's any swarf on the ways I don't.
[22:48:06] <furrywolf> because the swarf jams between the saddle and the column or handwheel mount.
[22:48:27] <Tom_itx> well i built my control with the idea of a bigger mill later down the road
[22:48:41] <Tom_itx> so everything but maybe the steppers can be ported
[22:48:50] <Tom_itx> might need bigger steppers
[22:48:56] <Tom_itx> the drivers are all ok
[22:49:58] <furrywolf> I've built the control for my shoptask with the idea that it might be good for a bigger mill. :)
[22:51:17] <furrywolf> the control on my sherline is undersized. motors run cold. flashcut--
[22:51:27] <Tom_itx> i think i'm pretty much ready to put the mill back together now
[22:51:44] <Tom_itx> i've been bench testing the control for quite a while with just the spindle
[22:51:58] <Tom_itx> the rest was working when i took it apart
[22:52:28] <Tom_itx> modded the spindle pulleys etc added the encoder so i could do sync motion and pid spindle control
[22:52:59] <Tom_itx> just finished my first cad file with the tap code added so i could test the cad cam post
[22:53:05] <furrywolf> wow. http://www.constructioncomplete.com/gas-earth-augers/ground-hog-c-71-5-honda-two-man-earth-drill.html retail on this auger is scarrily high.
[22:53:11] <furrywolf> scarily
[22:53:39] <furrywolf> the manufacturer's website doesn't even give prices, just "have a representative contact you" crap...
[22:54:18] <Tom_itx> gonna call it for tonight
[22:55:35] <furrywolf> cyas
[22:55:53] <treid> My pc won't boot with my new 5i24 mesa card plugged in. It boots fine otherwise - anybody run into something like this before?
[22:58:01] <furrywolf> bad power supply, bad motherboard, bad capacitors, bad bios settings? but no, never heard of that.
[22:58:56] <treid> Its behaving weirdly. The pc powers on fine with the card unplugged, but I get no response when I plug it in
[22:59:10] <treid> Same behavior across 2 motherboards
[22:59:16] <Tom_itx> try a different slot?
[22:59:20] <Tom_itx> mmm
[22:59:31] <Tom_itx> ask pcw_home
[22:59:54] <treid> I did send an email to Mesa support
[22:59:58] <furrywolf> could be you have a dud card
[23:00:04] <furrywolf> two motherboards, or two complete systems?
[23:00:10] <furrywolf> same model motherboards?
[23:00:16] <Tom_itx> you can sometimes get live support here when pcw_home's awake
[23:00:26] <treid> different model mother boards, I used the same power supply
[23:00:45] <furrywolf> try a different power supply, although with two motherboards I doubt that's it.
[23:01:01] <treid> I do have another PS I can try with
[23:04:56] <treid> I get a solid green LED on the mobo normally. It goes to a faintly blinking LED when I plug the card in
[23:05:10] <treid> this is with the mobo not powered on, just the PSU on
[23:05:16] <treid> so definitely something weird with the card
[23:06:00] <furrywolf> sounds like the card is shorting the power supply
[23:06:20] <furrywolf> make sure there's no obvious damage to it (broken off capacitors, etc), then tell mesa you need a new one.
[23:07:46] <furrywolf> you have nothing plugged into the card, right?
[23:08:04] <treid> correct
[23:09:36] <furrywolf> looks like it has a jumper to disable pci, but I doubt anything other than shorting the power supply could kill the power-to-mobo led.
[23:12:08] <treid> alright I'm super dumb
[23:12:15] <treid> I was plugging it in backwards
[23:12:39] <furrywolf> ... lol?
[23:12:52] <treid> didn't even consider that was possible
[23:13:29] <furrywolf> it shouldn't be, unless you've taken off the bracket, or are using a tiny sbc motherboard...
[23:13:48] <treid> I took off the bracket because it interfered with the mobo
[23:14:01] <treid> mini-atx intel atom board
[23:17:12] <furrywolf> if you take it off, you should remember which side it was on. lol
[23:17:24] <furrywolf> and did it only interfere because you were trying to put it in backwards? :P
[23:18:05] <treid> nah the slot is parallel to the edge so it would have to come off either way
[23:18:36] <treid> I think I might have caused an issue with that small mobo, won't power on anymore. The bigger mobo boots up with card now though
[23:18:48] <treid> putting this machine together is going to be long process...
[23:19:03] <furrywolf> yeah, it's quite possible you damaged the mobo doing that.
[23:19:17] <treid> better the mobo then the card
[23:22:44] <furrywolf> it's also quite possible you damaged the card...
[23:23:27] <treid> Yeah hard to say at this point
[23:24:00] <treid> all I know is that the mobo powers on, I don't have a graphics card on the large mobo so I can't hook a monitor up at the moment to continue on
[23:24:05] <renesis> treid: i had an intel atom mobo, by intel, brick on me after running a couple years fine
[23:24:47] <treid> I bought that board a couple years ago for linuxcnc. at the time it seemed like one of the best options
[23:24:56] <renesis> was in a shop at work when it happened, no idea how, its possible it got plugged into 220v because some of the sockets were wrong in there
[23:25:12] <treid> is there a better choice than the atom out there now?
[23:25:26] <renesis> pcw says theyre shit but mine got like heroic scores on latency test and i never had issues running my stepper mill
[23:25:41] <furrywolf> I've seen way too many 120V outlets wired for 240V. I have no idea why people do this, instead of spending the $5 for the proper outlet and plug combo.
[23:25:45] <renesis> so i dunno maybe its a feedback latency issue hes referring to, mines open loop
[23:26:04] <renesis> treid: i bet a celeron works fine
[23:26:40] <renesis> furrywolf: sometimes i think its confusion because theres high current 120V that look like in between
[23:27:38] <furrywolf> no, it's lazyness. I've often seen well pumps and such wired that way. "well, this is what I have in my toolbox..."
[23:27:46] <renesis> when i see it, its usually the keyed looking 120v slot, with the horizontal slot sticking out of the verticle
[23:27:55] <renesis> well laziness or ignorance
[23:29:23] <renesis> the 50A 120V output let got me for testing amps at one job was pretty badass
[23:29:33] <renesis> big giant twist lock thing
[23:29:39] <furrywolf> at least around here, be very, very wary of plugging tools into any outlet that looks like it might have ever gone to a well pump.
[23:29:59] <renesis> this was in a building full of electronic engineers
[23:30:09] <renesis> tho to be fair, they werent allowed in the shop
[23:30:09] <furrywolf> I just got a jobsite box that uses 50A 125/250V twistlocks. they're like the 120V 50A twistlock, but bigger, and metal.
[23:30:27] <renesis> cool
[23:30:44] <renesis> i dont think im ever going to use IEC for anything personal anymore
[23:30:58] <renesis> and if its my call on some work shit, i wont
[23:31:33] <renesis> locking iec is like, rare unicorn shit, and neutrik powercon seems to be fine
[23:32:16] <renesis> people freak out about the blue locking IEC cables for the QSC K series speakers, you lose it youre prob fucked
[23:33:20] * furrywolf has never seen one of these
[23:33:22] <renesis> http://www.qscparts.com/wc000361gp.html
[23:33:33] <renesis> thats more fair than i qould have guessed
[23:33:57] <renesis> furrywolf: ive seen maybe thousands of audio products, only qsc uses them
[23:34:22] <renesis> im surprised its not a server psu standard, kind of sad locking IEC is not standard for consumers
[23:34:45] <renesis> like, whole work connected by computer power cables that will fall out if you wiggle them a little
[23:35:01] <furrywolf> I'd settle for cords that actually made reliable contact. so far they can't even get this right.
[23:35:23] <furrywolf> once they figure out how to make spring contacts, then locking would be nice.
[23:35:59] <renesis> dunno never heard of a problem with qsc ones
[23:36:17] <renesis> this is what i would use now http://www.neutrik.com/en/audio/powercon/
[23:36:49] <renesis> the only downside is that they look like neutrik speakon connectors, but they wont physically mate so who cares
[23:37:39] <furrywolf> I used trailer connectors for some speakers here. :P
[23:38:21] <renesis> long as theyre airtight, shrug
[23:38:59] <renesis> automotive stuff is usually fine with vibration
[23:40:27] <furrywolf> my system in storage uses molex connectors. I hate them, but I had them handy...
[23:44:00] <renesis> pomona bananas are cheap, work awesome
[23:45:26] <furrywolf> this was for 4-conductor plugs
[23:47:50] <furrywolf> bbl, wolfy bedtime
[23:50:52] <norias> blah
[23:50:58] <norias> tobacco time