#linuxcnc | Logs for 2015-05-07

[00:01:57] <zeeshan> im trying to swirl the air
[00:03:20] <Crom> you still need eddies for heat transfer
[00:03:36] <zeeshan> there will be enough of them asap the air hits the heat sink
[00:03:37] <zeeshan> :P
[00:10:58] <Crom> fsck'n maroons http://ktla.com/2015/05/06/3-arrested-after-creating-fake-international-police-force-lasd/
[00:16:15] <zeeshan> lol
[00:16:15] <zeeshan> wtf
[02:06:33] <Deejay> moin
[07:58:20] <jthornton> wow, I just noticed the Tool Touch Off button in Axis 2.7
[08:12:56] <_methods> heh is there an actual button?
[08:13:24] <jthornton> yea, I just noticed it
[08:13:25] <_methods> i just touch mine off by going to the z work offset button
[08:13:42] <_methods> set axis to z and touch off axis
[08:15:31] <archivist> touch off for me on the mill has always been a pain as working in mid air and more like a horizontal, rotated 90
[08:15:56] <_methods> yeah touching off on virtual sharps of parts is a real pain
[08:16:37] <archivist> I need the centre of the rotary to the middle of a cutter
[08:16:45] <_methods> yeah sorcery lol
[08:17:23] <_methods> i'll have to look for this touchoff button when i get home
[08:18:02] <archivist> like http://www.archivist.info/cnc/target.php
[08:19:10] <_methods> do you custom grind most of your gear cutters?
[08:19:25] <_methods> or do you find yourself mainly using standard tooth form cutters?
[08:19:49] <archivist> that particular one is a standard clock/watch cutter
[08:20:47] <archivist> I grind up an odd one if if the cutter is unobtainium or expensive
[08:21:12] <_methods> I've got my eye on a cincinnati #1 ML horizontal today
[08:21:15] <_methods> still at $100
[08:21:29] <_methods> there's a #2 at $100 also
[08:21:39] <_methods> 4 hours left to go
[08:21:51] <archivist> go fetch :)
[08:22:52] <_methods> yeah
[08:22:58] <_methods> for $100 i can't really pass it up
[08:23:06] <_methods> i'll have to put it in storage i guess
[08:23:12] <_methods> until i make room
[08:24:37] <archivist> not getting both!
[08:24:44] * archivist ducks
[08:24:47] <_methods> heheh
[08:24:54] <_methods> there's 4 of them
[08:25:00] <_methods> oops 5
[08:25:09] <_methods> a jafo fwf32
[08:25:17] <_methods> 2 cinci #2's
[08:25:34] <_methods> kearney and trecker 3ch
[08:25:46] <_methods> and the cinci #1 i want
[08:25:54] <archivist> save them from the scrap merchant
[08:26:17] <_methods> i wish i could but i have a feeling that these machines are heading that way
[08:26:41] <archivist> at those prices the scrappers will be there
[08:26:47] <_methods> yeah
[08:27:01] <_methods> still 3 hours or so left
[08:32:15] <archivist> you need spares? http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/cincinnati-milling-machine-parts-/161691299343
[08:32:52] <archivist> all teh junk
[08:56:55] <_methods> hah lots of spares
[09:02:05] <_methods> 36" brown and sharpe camel back too
[09:02:13] <_methods> only at $50 now
[09:08:06] <jthornton> file sharing sucks on wheezy
[09:13:38] <jthornton> I'm thinking I better not restart samba while a backup is in progress
[09:19:09] <_methods> why what's going on file sharing wise?
[09:21:09] <jthornton> can't seem to share files from this one
[09:22:23] <_methods> gigolo
[09:23:37] <jthornton> hmm, I have that installed
[09:38:32] <_methods> so are you trying to share to that machine or from that machine?
[09:38:43] <_methods> if that makes sense
[09:39:22] <_methods> i guess better wording would be are you having trouble accessing a share on another computer
[09:39:46] <_methods> or are you having trouble accessing shares on that computer
[09:41:13] <jthornton> both lol
[09:41:24] <_methods> ah
[09:41:32] <_methods> so total failure of sharing lol
[09:41:47] <jthornton> I want to share the files on this wheezy computer and the wheezy in the shop
[09:41:57] <jthornton> most of the ubuntu computers share nicely
[09:42:38] <_methods> yeah i've had decent luck with ubuntu also
[09:43:02] <_methods> with wheezy i just did ssh share
[09:43:51] <_methods> i can however see my smb shares on the network just fine though
[09:44:24] <_methods> if you open the file manager from the drop down and you hit the network button do you see all the shares on your local network?
[10:25:56] <zeeshan> anyone here own a flir camera
[10:27:49] <JT-Shop> _methods, yea I can see all the computers... I just can't copy and paste to the debian ones
[10:28:10] <JT-Shop> in ubuntu you just right click and tell it to share the directory
[10:48:59] <mozmck> JT-Shop: install system-config-samba
[10:51:27] <mozmck> It should show up under the Settings menu as "Samba"
[10:53:02] <mozmck> Create a samba user from the preferences menu linked to the linux login user, and make a share, and it should just work.
[10:59:44] <jthornton> E: Unable to locate package system-confg-samba
[11:02:27] <jthornton> opps spelled it wrong
[11:09:43] <mozmck> That's the simplest samba configuration tool I've seen other than the nautilus-share extension that lets you share a folder from the right-click menu.
[11:11:31] <jthornton> doesn't seem to be available for wheezy
[11:20:45] <Jymmm> http://kron4.com/2015/05/06/tech-report-osh-stores-offering-3d-printing/
[11:27:15] <jthornton> mozmck, I had to run nautilus as sudo but it worked sharing some directories
[11:27:17] <jthornton> thanks
[11:54:59] <zeeshan> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i6jlTLlsjNc
[11:55:05] <zeeshan> hmm
[11:55:08] <zeeshan> this looks pretty sweet!
[12:01:38] <malcom2073> E4, that's the one with the hackable firmware
[12:01:46] <malcom2073> buddy of mine got one of those, they're really awesome once you hack them
[12:01:50] <Rab> zeeshan, you should buy a Seek: http://www.thermal.com/
[12:02:01] <zeeshan> rab is it of thje same resolution
[12:02:03] <zeeshan> and 60hz?
[12:02:18] <zeeshan> and -20 to 650C range?
[12:02:38] <Rab> zeeshan, is cost a criterion?
[12:02:43] <zeeshan> 4500
[12:02:48] <zeeshan> its not for me
[12:02:58] <zeeshan> i was talking to timecop thru pm
[12:03:01] <zeeshan> he seems to recommend the e40
[12:03:14] <zeeshan> i just wish i could try it out before comitting it
[12:03:21] <zeeshan> i dont want people yelling at me for makin a bad choice :P
[12:03:24] <malcom2073> zeeshan: You can turn an E4 into an E40 :P
[12:03:31] <zeeshan> malcom2073: you cant
[12:03:34] <malcom2073> erm, rather an e8
[12:03:44] <zeeshan> the refresh rate is very different
[12:03:49] <zeeshan> and the temp range is very diff too
[12:03:51] <Rab> Seek resolution is actually better, although framerate and temp range are worse.
[12:04:18] <zeeshan> rab timecop was sayin yo ucould get a lens for it
[12:04:28] <zeeshan> if the standarded resolution isn't good enough
[12:04:39] <Rab> zeeshan, how does a lens increase resolution?
[12:04:49] <zeeshan> it doesnt lol
[12:05:14] <zeeshan> im thinking aboujt something else and answering something else
[12:05:22] <zeeshan> my issue is, if im 1 foot away from the object of interest
[12:05:28] <zeeshan> i wanna be able to have a non blurry image..
[12:05:45] <zeeshan> apparently with the 45 degree lens, you can resolve .2mm areas
[12:06:05] <zeeshan> 7 thou!
[12:06:07] <Rab> If timecop uses it, it's probably not a total piece of crap. I'm just saying there'd be a good alternative for $250 if it was your money.
[12:06:20] <zeeshan> yes its not for me
[12:06:23] <zeeshan> they want something for the lab
[12:06:28] <zeeshan> without spending 10k
[12:06:35] <zeeshan> 4500 is affordable for them
[12:06:47] <zeeshan> we wanna be able to capture thermal gradients for say a tensile test
[12:06:53] <zeeshan> or verify uniform temperature
[12:06:54] <Rab> Probably fine then. The Seek needs a phone anyway.
[12:07:03] <zeeshan> and do it fast enough
[12:07:41] <zeeshan> http://www.innventia.com/PageFiles/5596/2012-27-02-p329-334-Hyll.pdf?epslanguage=sv
[12:07:53] <zeeshan> if you go to physical page 332
[12:08:17] <zeeshan> look at figure 6. it's kinda cool how you can see the temperature rise at failure
[12:09:17] <zeeshan> some guy was presenting a study yesterday where he was showing that strain localizing due to dislocation pile up leads to a localized temperature rise which can be correlated to the location where fracture will happen
[12:09:52] <zeeshan> but if you kept strain constant and allowed the stress to relax a bit, you can actually see that thermal gradient dissipate
[12:10:11] <zeeshan> and now you can prolong fracture
[12:10:21] <zeeshan> even when you increase the strain
[12:37:03] <archivist> internal friction==heat
[12:37:49] <archivist> for the ultimate use of that effect see rubber tire making
[12:40:22] <FinboySlick> zeeshan: I was wondering earlier... That part with two heating element you pasted yesterday. Why not stick it on an induction heater plate? That way you'd only have to engineer the cooling aspects.
[12:41:29] <renesis> haha @ FLIR at a coffee cup
[12:41:58] <renesis> we did pretty well proving those were useless for absolute temps unless you were looking at big flat black panels
[12:42:16] <renesis> theyre excellent for figuring out where to put the thermocouples
[12:42:37] <renesis> i think we could have spent the money better
[12:42:37] <archivist> I suppose you can have a measured spot to calibrate an image
[12:42:58] <renesis> right but if your image is of different materials that doesnt help
[12:43:12] <renesis> say like a circuitboard in an enclosure
[12:43:39] <renesis> i was working with a tech who had just come from FLIR at the time, he knew it was a problem but was kind of surprised how much it was off by
[12:43:57] <archivist> paint hem all :)
[12:44:08] <renesis> thats gonna change all the things!
[12:44:49] <renesis> also you cant use a flir on an closed system
[12:44:53] <archivist> only if the paint is a heat insulator :)
[12:45:00] <renesis> it was pretty useless compared to thermocouples
[12:45:19] <renesis> and we usually knew where to stick the thermocouples
[12:49:56] <Jymmm> Got Toast? https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=UUPSGvWr6xE#t=540
[12:50:20] <zeeshan> most of the times you're measuring stuff from the same material
[12:50:29] <zeeshan> and its not hard to compensate for emissivity after you've captured the data.
[12:51:01] <zeeshan> FinboySlick: i was thinking the 2 elements would be easier to implement
[12:51:13] <zeeshan> cause i could bury them deep into the heating block
[12:51:30] <zeeshan> and keep it all compact
[12:52:53] <zeeshan> renesis: thermocouples are inferior in the sense they can't capture a gradient.
[12:53:02] <FinboySlick> zeeshan: Yeah, my suggestion was on the assumption that the block is standalone. I didn't catch if it was a part of a larger machine.
[12:53:50] <renesis> use lots, gradients dont matter for what were usually doing so would be hard to call it inferior when the results are more accurate
[12:54:01] <renesis> but yeah for your thing it probably works
[12:54:06] <zeeshan> thermocouples have their own issues
[12:54:11] <renesis> FLIR at coffee cup is the equiv of FLIR at people nuts
[12:54:20] <zeeshan> they heat the thing you're trying to measure
[12:54:24] <renesis> which is what usually happens when a place i work gets one
[12:54:46] <renesis> heat the thing youre trying to measure?
[12:55:11] <zeeshan> yes
[12:55:23] <renesis> were measuring small parts that get to 100C with twisted extension wire
[12:55:49] <zeeshan> the main issue i see with ir cams is emissivity
[12:55:50] <renesis> the voltage potential isnt even mV, theres like no current
[12:56:06] <zeeshan> if you could overlay an emissivity point cloud on top of the thermal data
[12:56:09] <renesis> right which is an issue when you cant paint everything black
[12:56:10] <zeeshan> you could compensate probably
[12:56:17] <renesis> or when you have a hundred diff materials on a PCBA
[12:56:37] <renesis> and were trying to have the data presented in like, an hour
[12:57:03] <renesis> also FLIR does no work on a closed system
[12:57:18] <zeeshan> what do you mean closed system
[12:57:29] <renesis> like, enclosed
[12:57:37] <zeeshan> thats why they have ir windows
[12:57:47] <renesis> window would change things
[12:57:49] <zeeshan> made out of calcium carbonate, hdpe, germanium, zinc sulphide
[12:57:55] <renesis> when its a window in aluminum
[12:59:11] <renesis> thermocouples get us temp vs time on the components we need with the system sealed up as used in normal operation
[12:59:15] <Tom_itx> JT-Shop, what's the touchoff button do exactly?
[12:59:37] <renesis> we didnt stop doing that after we had the flir, and we didnt really use it to know where to put the thermocouples because it just told us what we already knew
[12:59:39] <Tom_itx> sounds like a nice addition
[13:00:00] <JT-Shop> tool touch off
[13:00:20] <Tom_itx> does it enter the value or give you a dialog box?
[13:00:50] <Tom_itx> ie if you touch off from a dowel etc
[13:01:11] <Tom_itx> i'll have to try it later today...
[13:01:17] <JT-Shop> same as g54 touch off
[13:01:30] <JT-Shop> PayPal and FleaBay have split the sheets
[13:01:56] <Tom_itx> yep
[13:01:57] <zeeshan> split the sheets?
[13:02:11] <Tom_itx> something about paypal changes
[13:02:18] <Tom_itx> i forget what exactly
[13:02:42] <Jymmm> Tom_itx: they are seperate companys now
[13:03:07] <Jymmm> err zeeshan ^^^
[13:03:19] <Tom_itx> so if we linked accounts are we unfriended now :)
[13:03:35] <zeeshan> wow corporate defriending
[13:03:43] <Jymmm> somethign like that =)
[13:03:49] <renesis> its a thing
[13:03:55] <Jymmm> what will the neighbors think!!!
[13:03:58] <JT-Shop> they are going to operate as separate companies soon
[13:04:13] <Tom_itx> sounds like we get stuck in the middle
[13:04:36] * JT-Shop wonders if there is a way to git rid of the "do you really want to close LinuxCNC" nag screen
[13:04:47] <JT-Shop> hows that?
[13:04:47] <Tom_itx> power switch
[13:05:13] <Tom_itx> not sure yet but it sounds like a bad thing
[13:05:15] <FinboySlick> zeeshan: I probably missed anything you said.
[13:05:29] <JT-Shop> why does it sound bad?
[13:05:31] <zeeshan> FinboySlick: i didnt say much :)
[13:06:36] <JT-Shop> the only thing that worries me is "We've changed our fee schedule for certain seller and nonprofits"
[13:07:45] <Tom_itx> meh, maybe not... they both charged a transaction fee anyway
[13:07:51] <Tom_itx> it will probably increase
[13:08:42] <JT-Shop> I don't use flea bay
[13:09:12] <Tom_itx> i don't sell ther
[13:09:14] <Tom_itx> e
[13:09:32] <Tom_itx> they _are_ my link to chinese junk though
[13:25:05] <_methods> hehe the chinese connection
[13:25:14] <_methods> cheap elec components
[13:34:41] * zeeshan needs help
[13:34:42] <zeeshan> http://www.omega.ca/pptst_eng/SV3100.html
[13:34:44] <zeeshan> a solenoid like this
[13:35:00] <zeeshan> using dc it has an opening time of 20 to 80 msec
[13:35:22] <zeeshan> my question is, can you pulse this things on and off
[13:35:25] <zeeshan> without blowing them up
[13:35:55] <zeeshan> pcw_home: your expertise would be nice!
[13:35:58] <zeeshan> pid master.
[13:38:48] <archivist> solenoids like that should have an operating time and a operation count lifetime
[13:40:13] <archivist> ask the to define Cycling Rate: Approx. 1000 cpm and lifetime at that rate
[13:40:18] <archivist> them
[13:40:40] <archivist> is the m minute or month
[13:40:46] <zeeshan> minute
[13:40:46] <zeeshan> lol
[13:41:47] <zeeshan> its kinda hard to find a solenoid valve that can handle 260C..
[13:41:50] <archivist> 1000 per minute is rather a lot
[13:42:13] <archivist> better to use a valve and servo
[13:43:12] <zeeshan> too expensive :(
[13:43:22] <zeeshan> i need two of these things
[13:43:28] <zeeshan> one that lets pressure in, and that releases
[13:43:31] <zeeshan> *one
[13:44:07] <Jymmm> Donkey Balls https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p9IYTxEzXPs
[13:50:26] <_methods> haha
[13:58:20] <ffurrywol> why do you need to pulse it on and off quickly?
[14:01:02] <archivist> he is doing PID temperature control with a fluid
[14:01:55] <archivist> methinks the thermal lag of the block means it can be a lot slower anyway
[14:02:12] <ffurrywol> he has enough thermal mass with four heatsinks, big aluminum blocks, heating elements, etc, he doesn't need to cycle anything quickly. :P
[14:02:19] <archivist> thermal capacity I mean
[14:07:27] <zeeshan> archivist: youre right it will be slower
[14:07:38] <zeeshan> im cycling pressure
[14:07:40] <zeeshan> not temperature
[14:07:54] <zeeshan> if i set it to 10 psi, i want it to be hold 10 psi, regardless of temperature rise
[14:09:01] <archivist> just use normal pressure regulators
[14:09:19] <zeeshan> omega told me this
[14:09:21] <zeeshan> All the ordinary pneumatic pressure regulators http://www.omega.ca/pptst_eng/PRG101.html assume a lower pressure on the Output pressure than the supply pressure. The situation where the air is heated and the air pressure on the output increase by itself (by heating ) is unusual.
[14:09:34] <zeeshan> There are pressure relief valves for excessive pressure,
[14:09:44] <zeeshan> but it is easy to imagine an oscillation between the pressure input regulator and the pressure relief valve. I can only imagine that you would need to have the input and output valves under the control of a single custom software . Omega can supply only the solenoids
[14:10:29] <zeeshan> see the dilemma? :)
[14:11:08] <archivist> you could adjust the volume with temperature
[14:11:49] <archivist> you could use a pressure balance with a weight
[14:11:58] <archivist> easier
[14:12:36] <zeeshan> hm
[14:12:52] <zeeshan> would eliminate the need for pid
[14:12:52] <zeeshan> :P
[14:12:53] * ffurrywol seems to remember a long time ago saying to use linuxcnc for this. :P
[14:14:02] <ffurrywol> I built what you're doing a while ago, and it worked great, even though I only had a simple deadband-based control.
[14:14:03] <archivist> I got some strange books :) ttp://www.collection.archivist.info/searchv13.php?searchstr=pressure+balance
[14:14:30] <ffurrywol> http://fw.bushytails.net/brakeplumbing01.jpg
[14:15:19] <archivist> what no adjustable spanners in that pic!
[14:15:23] <zeeshan> http://i.imgur.com/CaleMXq.png
[14:15:31] <zeeshan> so basically i'd have that T
[14:15:39] <zeeshan> and one side of the T would go to an expansion chamber?
[14:15:44] <zeeshan> and the other side would be inlet
[14:15:45] <ffurrywol> archivist: look under and to the left of the utility knife
[14:16:01] <archivist> yup
[14:16:31] <zeeshan> the expansion/contraction cahmber would be a controlled using some sort of motor?
[14:16:38] <archivist> my arse pocket always has one
[14:17:01] <archivist> weight on a piston
[14:17:12] <ffurrywol> two valves should work fine
[14:17:12] <zeeshan> i don't get it
[14:17:15] <zeeshan> how is the weight movin
[14:17:25] <ffurrywol> I got a lot better control than I expected
[14:17:39] <zeeshan> ffurrywol: the problem with valves right now im facing is
[14:17:45] <zeeshan> finding ones that can handl 260-300C
[14:18:14] <zeeshan> using a coil for actuation..
[14:18:24] <furrywolf> your valves don't need to handle high temperatures. just put a loop of copper tubing somewhere between the chamber and your valves.
[14:18:42] <zeeshan> yes, but th e further i place them
[14:18:48] <zeeshan> the larger the volume of air
[14:18:55] <zeeshan> the harder to control? :)
[14:19:04] <furrywolf> the further you place them, the more air capacity you have, and the less often you need to cycle them to maintain a precise pressure.
[14:19:20] * zeeshan nods
[14:20:13] <archivist> been trying to knock that more volume sense into our boiler firemen this last weekend
[14:21:09] <zeeshan> it makes sense
[14:21:16] <furrywolf> the assembly I built in that picture would do what you need just fine, and didn't involve any exotic components. :P
[14:21:16] <zeeshan> youre increasing the thermal capacity of the air
[14:21:51] <archivist> percentage change of volume becomes smaller
[14:22:06] <archivist> same difference sort of
[14:22:22] <zeeshan> so technically, if i have a huge pressure vessel..
[14:22:30] <zeeshan> i wont even need a control system..
[14:22:41] <furrywolf> http://fw.bushytails.net/brakebin01.jpg http://fw.bushytails.net/brakebin02.jpg if you're curious what it went in
[14:22:58] <zeeshan> furrywolf: what is this
[14:22:58] <zeeshan> haha
[14:23:03] <zeeshan> i like what i see
[14:23:07] <archivist> carnot still rules regardless of volume
[14:23:45] <furrywolf> it's a magic box that lets you hook trailers with air brakes up to vehicles with electric trailer brake controllers. :)
[14:24:11] <furrywolf> modulates the air pressure proportional to the electric input
[14:24:44] <_methods> DOT approved lol
[14:25:12] <furrywolf> 100%! :P
[14:28:24] <furrywolf> http://fw.bushytails.net/brake04.png
[14:30:02] <zeeshan> looks nice man
[14:32:51] <furrywolf> now it's your turn to build one. :P
[14:33:17] <zeeshan> i wouldnt get hardcore like you with the electronics though
[14:33:28] <zeeshan> id prolly just use a rp 2
[14:33:35] <zeeshan> for both daq and pid control
[14:34:01] <zeeshan> i wonder if i could just use a standard temp pid control and make it work with pressure
[14:34:07] <zeeshan> they should have some deadband settings..
[14:34:28] <furrywolf> you'd need a heat and cool temp pid, which as you found was expensive.
[14:34:48] <furrywolf> I don't know if a single quad opamp chip counts as hardcore. :)
[14:35:06] <zeeshan> furrywolf: those are cheap
[14:35:07] <zeeshan> on ebay
[14:37:08] <Tom_itx> zeeshan why do you need to pulse the valves that often?
[14:37:24] <Tom_itx> some PIDs are a slower process
[14:38:23] <zeeshan> how often?
[14:38:28] <zeeshan> whatr are you referrin to
[14:42:02] <Tom_itx> something you were discussing ages ago
[14:42:05] <Tom_itx> 1000 per minute is rather a lot
[14:42:12] <zeeshan> oh that was the specs of the solenoid
[14:42:49] <MrSunshine> gaaah ... my machine seems to not be capable of what i want it to be :/
[14:43:00] <zeeshan> http://i.imgur.com/xONz2vl.png
[14:43:12] <zeeshan> there you go furrywolf, cooling coils!
[14:43:23] <zeeshan> MrSunshine: whats wrong
[14:43:24] <Tom_itx> starting to look like an alien spacecraft
[14:43:38] <zeeshan> Tom_itx: it's crazy how things come together
[14:43:43] <MrSunshine> zeeshan: when i cut my spindle flexes away leaving a \ cut on the sides
[14:43:46] <zeeshan> to me it looks like a drone
[14:43:52] <MrSunshine> making alot of vibrations and stuff
[14:44:02] <Tom_itx> hi tech still
[14:44:16] <zeeshan> MrSunshine: even at slow feeds?
[14:44:39] <MrSunshine> zeeshan: at slow speed my cutters makes a high pitch noise that is freakin unbearable 100 meteres away from the machine :P
[14:45:01] <Tom_itx> too much flex in the beast
[14:45:03] <MrSunshine> (something with the geometry of onsrud cutters .. cmt cutters did not do that but i have no good supply for cmt)
[14:45:40] <MrSunshine> so now im thinking of rebuilding the machine . .but dont know where to get the funds to do it :/
[14:46:01] <_methods> exotic dancing
[14:46:13] <_methods> male prostitution?
[14:46:38] <furrywolf> Tom_itx: I already named it lunokhod z.
[14:46:52] <furrywolf> why does it have two coils? you can let the air back out the same way it goes in. this also conserves heat.
[14:47:13] <MrSunshine> https://fbcdn-sphotos-g-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-ash2/v/t1.0-9/p206x206/602448_10151497699089046_99229540_n.jpg?oh=e73bf83cb632e3c06fc04ece3f515e77&oe=55D10A7F&__gda__=1440487653_191de14420290e065b3526d487695f8a <-- me to the right .. not realy material for exotic dancing :P
[14:47:14] <Jymmm> "Learn to pimp your ho for fun and profit"... Available from Amazon and other fine retailers
[14:47:19] <MrSunshine> nor prostitute :P
[14:48:18] <Jymmm> "Armed Robbery for dummys"
[14:48:42] <MrSunshine> now that sounds more like it .. problem is that im just to nice .. i would give the stuff back
[14:50:05] <zeeshan> MrSunshine: not slow speed, i mean slow feed
[14:50:23] <MrSunshine> zeeshan: well . i see those as the same thing
[14:50:27] <MrSunshine> so yes, slow feed
[14:50:32] <zeeshan> they arent! :P
[14:50:36] <MrSunshine> high pitch noise ... could kill anyone
[14:50:38] <MrSunshine> instantly
[14:51:08] <zeeshan> furrywolf: larger volume :P
[14:53:23] <MrSunshine> i wonder how much concrete differes in size over time/humidity etc
[14:53:37] <MrSunshine> if i anchor a machine in a concrete floor .. will it flex the machine over time ?
[14:57:52] <furrywolf> bolting different things together always creates a risk of stress. metal machines expand quite a bit with temperature.
[14:58:25] <MrSunshine> yeah, well ig uess it could just stand but then i would put a freakin concrete slab in the base of the machine to gain some weight
[14:58:45] <roycroft> if the concrete floor is perfectly level, or can be shimmed level, you would be fine doing that
[14:59:22] <MrSunshine> adjustable feet
[15:02:18] <furrywolf> bbl, hardware store
[15:04:13] <zeeshan> http://www.omega.com/Green/pdf/SV3100.pdf
[15:04:18] <zeeshan> this dun make no sense.
[15:04:31] <zeeshan> when i give it 24VDC its ON
[15:04:36] <zeeshan> at 0V its off?
[15:10:04] <MrSunshine> 100sek/100mm of linear rail i need 3.6 + 3.6 + .6 meters of that stuff :P
[15:11:46] <MrSunshine> nah .. 3.6 + 3 + 0.6 .. still 6000 sek for just rails ... + 12 blocks ... 2700sek ..
[15:13:31] <jtektool> OK. Ready to turn my machine on. A little bit paranoid. This is the second one I've done but first Mesa 5i25/7i77 combo.
[15:20:45] <jtektool> The questions im leary of is only 4 wires. My estop in is 24v+(source) wired to input pin one(sink) on 7i77. All limits is 24v+ (source) to input pin 2(sink) on 7i77. Output 1 (servo enabled) is going out to a panasonic flyback diode protected icecube 24v relay which field power going back to a seperate power supply from 24v on the cnc. aka relay logic is supplied via a seperate 24v supply. 7i77 output pin 2 is wired out to a relay
[15:56:09] <furrywolf> meh. I wish the local hardware store wasn't going out of business.
[15:56:37] <XXCoder1> no other hardware store?
[15:56:58] <furrywolf> longer drive
[15:57:17] <zeeshan> boy is moly dry lubricant hard to find locally
[15:57:18] <zeeshan> ..
[15:57:25] <zeeshan> ive been trying to search for it for 2 days
[15:57:34] <zeeshan> finally find a source
[15:57:49] <XXCoder1> finally, lube eh lol
[16:00:27] <furrywolf> what do you need dry moly lube for?
[16:01:01] <zeeshan> love
[16:01:34] <furrywolf> no, you don't want dry lube for that. :P
[16:01:46] <SpeedEvil> I don't think it would work as a personal lubricant.
[16:01:52] <zeeshan> thats what you think\!
[16:01:56] <SpeedEvil> I've never tried it though
[16:01:59] <zeeshan> jk
[16:02:03] <XXCoder1> lol
[16:02:09] <zeeshan> its for a sliding surface for school
[16:02:14] <zeeshan> that i dont want dust to stick to
[16:02:17] <zeeshan> and not be wet either
[16:02:44] <zeeshan> from what ive been told, dry moly lube is the only type that is up for the challenge
[16:02:47] <zeeshan> dry graphite wont work
[16:03:01] <SpeedEvil> dust doesn't stick like that
[16:03:19] <zeeshan> wat
[16:06:05] <furrywolf> I still haven't found the perfect lube... you can't use silicone lubes on silicone toys, and I find them irritating anyway...
[16:06:24] <zeeshan> enough details furrywolf
[16:07:02] <MrSunshine> hahahaha
[16:07:17] <MrSunshine> sharing is caring
[16:07:35] <XXCoder1> theres this powerful counter to that
[16:07:43] <XXCoder1> not sure if I should use it....
[16:07:46] <XXCoder1> okay here it us
[16:07:49] <XXCoder1> TMI heh
[16:08:55] * furrywolf notes the msds for dry moly lube makes it sound pretty toxic, and thus would be a bad thing to put on something being inserted into your body
[16:09:12] <renesis> furrywolf: silicone takes forever to wash off and supposedly contributes to wawa infections
[16:09:53] <renesis> water based kind of turns to nothing tho, shrug
[16:10:10] <renesis> sex goo is a compromise =\
[16:10:24] <XXCoder1> all droll you see in horror movies like Aliens is KY lube
[16:10:47] <XXCoder1> they probaby used it in other way during movie making. why not? barrels of em lol
[16:11:09] <MrSunshine> just dip yourself in a barrel and you are good for an all nighter =)
[16:11:21] <renesis> yeah that stuff worked well
[16:11:46] <renesis> but was probably harder to wash off than silicone based lube
[16:12:17] <renesis> the tiny exgf was into tho
[16:13:02] <furrywolf> I thought horror movies preferred j-lube, since it's meant to be mixed up by the bucket?
[16:13:16] <renesis> whats j lube?
[16:13:23] <renesis> jelly?
[16:13:44] <XXCoder1> furrywolf: from what I read its ky lube
[16:13:49] <XXCoder1> it looks like drool
[16:13:51] <XXCoder1> so yeah
[16:13:56] <renesis> kr is medical stuff you can buy it bulk
[16:14:01] <renesis> *ky
[16:14:23] <XXCoder1> or from amazon
[16:14:37] <furrywolf> renesis: livestock birthing lube, and such. it comes in a powder, meant to be mixed by the bucket. for when a farmer needs to be arm-deep helping out a cow...
[16:14:42] <renesis> yeah its not hard to get lots of it
[16:14:44] <renesis> furrywolf: ew
[16:14:46] <XXCoder1> renesis: http://www.amazon.com/Passion-Natural-Water-Based-Lubricant-Gallon/dp/B005MR3IVO
[16:14:59] <renesis> thats not ky
[16:15:13] <XXCoder1> oh lol well 55 gal lol
[16:15:29] <renesis> you dont want 55 gal of something that sucks!
[16:15:33] <XXCoder1> read reviews though lol
[16:15:36] <renesis> tho yeah for drool its probably fine
[16:16:13] <renesis> haha i wonder if 'often bought with' includes slip n slides and blow up kiddie pools
[16:16:42] <renesis> Q: Is it kosher? A: No it is used for porking.
[16:16:52] <XXCoder1> no often bought with
[16:16:56] <furrywolf> heh, one of the amazon reviews for j-lube: "This is it"
[16:17:06] <furrywolf> "And by this of course I mean the point in the universe where veterinary medicine, soap bubble making, and butt sex cross paths. See people who bought J-lube also bought Dawn manual pot & pan. Why? Because these are the soap bubble enthusiasts. Other people bought J-lube and the Extra Large SensaFirm Balled Cock 11 Inch Mocha. That's a whole nother segment of the market that comes together in this tiny speck of the Venn diagram with the soap bubblers
[16:17:08] <XXCoder1> dont think anyone actually bought it
[16:17:19] <furrywolf> AND the veterinarians who need to do obstetrical work and artificial inseminations in large animals. We are all just 6 purchases away from each other in the Amazon universe! "
[16:18:05] <zeeshan> http://www.princessauto.com/en/detail/1-1-2-lb-dead-blow-hammer/A-p2943298e
[16:18:06] <zeeshan> YES
[16:18:09] <XXCoder1> jeez Backyard Carnival of Death review lol
[16:18:09] <zeeshan> its on SALE FINALLY
[16:18:12] <zeeshan> !!!!!!!!!1
[16:18:35] <XXCoder1> heh I have orange versoon from harbour
[16:18:45] <XXCoder1> looks exactly same
[16:18:54] <zeeshan> ive been using a brass hammer
[16:18:56] <zeeshan> all this while
[16:18:56] <zeeshan> lol
[16:18:57] <renesis> i like the steel head with screw in plastic and rubber ends
[16:19:12] <XXCoder1> zeeshan: I use my hammer a lot at work lol
[16:19:13] <furrywolf> you have no problem about stupidly overpriced polymer-testing apparatus, but won't buy a hammer until it's on sale? :P
[16:25:51] <zeeshan> i can order a 24vdc coil for it and them use electronics im familiar with
[16:26:14] <furrywolf> http://stores.ebay.com/valves4projects I got mine from that guy
[16:26:26] <renesis> use a 24v coil relay to switch them?
[16:26:40] <zeeshan> renesis i dont know how much itll switch just yet
[16:27:06] <furrywolf> http://www.ebay.com/itm/1-4-24VDC-Electric-Solenoid-Valve-Brass-Air-Gas-Water-N-C-24-V-DC-B20V-/290578532903?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item43a7d48a27
[16:27:08] <zeeshan> furrywolf: those are cheap
[16:27:16] <furrywolf> yes. which is why I got them. :P
[16:27:21] <zeeshan> get a new valve for the cost of a new coil
[16:27:22] <zeeshan> hahaha
[16:27:47] <zeeshan> 212 F
[16:27:49] <zeeshan> weak suace!
[16:28:11] <renesis> its enclosed in heatshrink that kind of goes without saying
[16:28:27] <furrywolf> that's a way of saying "not rated for steam service. don't sue us."
[16:28:59] <zeeshan> Valve Response Time Very Fast Acting
[16:29:00] <zeeshan> hahaha
[16:30:02] <furrywolf> yes. I didn't try determining what their maximum speed is, but I got them oscillating a couple times tuning my pressure circuit, and they are quite fast.
[16:30:46] <zeeshan> wish tyeh had dimensions
[16:30:47] <zeeshan> so i could model it
[16:30:50] <furrywolf> although not as fast as my smc all-metal valves. they're really, really fast. no rubber, metal on metal seals. they also leak, by design, which makes them useless for slow things. lol
[16:31:01] <furrywolf> email him. he's quite helpful.
[16:32:13] <zeeshan> ill try the omega solenoids for now
[16:32:13] <furrywolf> I need to purchase another 12v one... I used to have a large tank connected to my little air compressor, but it took way too long to fill. want to put in a check valve, pressure switch, and solenoid valve, that lets the big tank fill only when the little tank is full, so I have full pressure available quickly...
[16:32:19] <zeeshan> if i need to save money, ill use the link you gave me
[16:32:24] <zeeshan> im sure theyre the same thing.
[16:32:58] <furrywolf> they're definitely different valves
[16:34:40] <zeeshan> i mean similar performance
[16:35:10] <furrywolf> hrmm, to put two valves in parallel, I'll need to use either hoses or unions... probably hoses or copper line is cheaper and less requiring of perfect lengths.
[16:40:48] <furrywolf> this seems like something I should be able to build mechanically.
[16:41:03] <furrywolf> rather than needing a check valve, a pressure switch, a solenoid valve, and a power source.
[16:41:37] <furrywolf> like by removing the electrical contacts from a pump switch and putting a push-button air valve in their place.
[16:52:45] * furrywolf is surprised this isn't an off-the-shelf product
[16:54:45] <SpeedEvil> A simple pressure switch that turns on at just below the normal switch off pressure, and opens a small valve adequate to keep up with but no more than the compressors max output would work I guess
[16:55:19] <SpeedEvil> No need for a backflow diode
[16:55:23] <SpeedEvil> valve
[16:56:01] <Jymmm> lol
[16:56:16] <furrywolf> the check valve would be anti-parallel, to let air flow from the large tank into the small tank, which has the loads connected to it.
[16:56:17] <Jymmm> SpeedEvil: I wonder what you've been working on <grin>
[16:56:57] <SpeedEvil> furrywolf: doh
[16:57:06] <furrywolf> and, thus, quite needed. :)
[16:58:36] <furrywolf> I could probably use some type of pilot relief valve
[16:59:23] <furrywolf> some of the biggest screwups in history have had to do with pilot-operated relief valves, but they're generally a good idea. :P
[16:59:42] <SpeedEvil> yeah - well - as long as you don't screw with the existing safety stuff
[17:05:06] <furrywolf> http://www.ebay.com/itm/NEW-NOS-GRACO-FLUID-REGULATOR-BACK-PRESSURE-VALVE-MODEL-205-122-PAINT-SPRAY-GUNS-/261876354826 think that would magically do it?
[17:05:41] <furrywolf> my application is obviously quite different from its intended application, but it seems it requires the same logic...
[17:10:15] <zeeshan> why cant you open the valve between the two tanks only when the pressure switch of the little tank is off?
[17:10:27] <zeeshan> er
[17:10:28] <zeeshan> on.
[17:11:04] <furrywolf> as in, wait until the compressor shuts off, then join the tanks?
[17:11:15] <zeeshan> yes
[17:11:48] <zeeshan> asap the compressor goes off, the air will start transferring over
[17:11:50] <furrywolf> that'd result in cycling the compressor a whole lot, resulting in more wear and taking twice as long...
[17:12:13] <zeeshan> ya :P
[17:12:16] <SpeedEvil> furrywolf: seems a printed or DIY valve would work fine
[17:12:16] <zeeshan> but its simple!
[17:12:23] <SpeedEvil> ~100PSI isn't that hard to manage
[17:12:43] <furrywolf> .. if I build a valve, it'll be done on my milling machine. no printing.
[17:12:47] <SpeedEvil> yeah
[17:13:05] <zeeshan> plastic valve KABOOM
[17:13:09] <furrywolf> however, I think that graco sprayer pressure regulator will accomplish the task.
[17:13:36] <furrywolf> it's a shunt regulator... when the inlet pressure exceeds the setpoint, it lets it flow to the output.
[17:14:18] <SpeedEvil> zeeshan: sometimes kaboom is just fine
[17:14:39] <SpeedEvil> zeeshan: if the worst that a failure can do is make your thing not work
[17:14:50] <furrywolf> just set it to 10psi below the compressor cutoff, and when the little tank hits that, it starts letting it flow into the big tank.
[17:15:19] <furrywolf> there are no "just fine" kabooms when compressed air is involved. compressed air makes things turn into high-speed shrapnel.
[17:17:36] <SpeedEvil> yes - but it's all about enclosed volume.
[17:17:40] <SpeedEvil> The tank is dangerous.
[17:17:47] <SpeedEvil> A valve - pretty much - is not
[17:18:02] <furrywolf> right. what's the enclosed volume of a bb gun, and what's it do to your eye?
[17:18:03] <SpeedEvil> (unlesss of course it failing can overpressurise a tank
[17:18:14] <SpeedEvil> and yes - of course you'd want to cover it
[17:19:08] <furrywolf> 3d printing sounds like an absolutely horrible technique for valve construction.
[17:20:10] <furrywolf> explosion risk, porus walls if feed not perfect, crap tolerance, rough surfaces for contaminants to adhere to, rough surface that won't seal for the valve seat, soft plastics unable to hold threads, low temperature limit (air comes out of an air compressor quite warm), and expensive. perfect!
[17:22:14] * furrywolf could also just put in a quarter-turn ball valve, and have it be manumatic.
[17:22:21] <zeeshan> WELL I
[17:22:22] <zeeshan> er
[17:22:26] <zeeshan> well i can see SpeedEvil's point
[17:22:33] <zeeshan> theres tons of air pressure stuff thats plastic
[17:22:37] <zeeshan> and easily takes 100psi
[17:22:46] <zeeshan> but its fun making fun of 3d printers :)
[17:22:52] * SpeedEvil throws an empty coke bottle at zeeshan.
[17:23:03] <furrywolf> and is generally made of reinforced plastic composites, not hot glue.
[17:23:17] <zeeshan> ive seen some pure nylon valves
[17:23:19] <zeeshan> 100psi
[17:23:26] <furrywolf> can you print pure nylon?
[17:23:30] <SpeedEvil> Work out the hoop stress for a .2" valve. It's not very much.
[17:23:39] <zeeshan> furrywolf: hell YA
[17:23:41] <furrywolf> I had some pure teflon valves. sold them on ebay for $$$.
[17:24:07] <furrywolf> SpeedEvil: pressure-sensitive valves have large diaphragms, generally with a couple square inches of surface area.
[17:24:20] <furrywolf> you need the control force to far exceed the forces applied to the valve
[17:24:24] <SpeedEvil> If you want them to be very sensitive, yes.
[17:24:30] <zeeshan> pr/t = 100*.1/.1
[17:24:30] <SpeedEvil> Point
[17:24:34] <zeeshan> 100 psi :D
[17:25:18] <zeeshan> furrywolf: so i ddid decided to go with1 cooling coil
[17:26:16] <zeeshan> http://i.imgur.com/ronLyGG.png
[17:26:38] <zeeshan> so thats pretty much it.
[17:26:49] <zeeshan> the T on the bottom of the apparatus will have a pressure transducer
[17:26:55] <zeeshan> inlet of air on the first valve
[17:27:04] <zeeshan> and outlet on the other.
[17:27:25] <furrywolf> your pressure transducer will get too hot. put it by the valves.
[17:27:31] <zeeshan> im purposely am keeping the transducer closer to the
[17:27:41] <zeeshan> cause then it wont be affected by pressure drop and stuff
[17:27:45] <furrywolf> yes, I know why you're doing it. it's still not going to work. :)
[17:27:55] <zeeshan> whats not gonna work
[17:28:04] <furrywolf> it'll get too hot.
[17:28:11] <zeeshan> the pressure transducer im lookin at
[17:28:13] <furrywolf> that tee will be at chamber temperature
[17:28:15] <zeeshan> can take high temps
[17:28:25] <furrywolf> sigh, stop fixing everything with expensive parts. :P
[17:28:35] <zeeshan> this part will be expensive! :P
[17:28:37] <zeeshan> it needs to be precise
[17:28:40] <zeeshan> .1 psi
[17:29:08] * furrywolf has several .1 psi pressure transducers that were not expensive
[17:29:30] <zeeshan> link
[17:30:52] <furrywolf> http://www.smcusa.com/top-navigation/cad-models.aspx/54114 the ones I have have two open-collector switch outputs and 0-5v analog
[17:31:04] <zeeshan> i want digital!
[17:31:20] <SpeedEvil> zeeshan: st will sample them
[17:31:24] <SpeedEvil> if you're that cheap
[17:31:29] <zeeshan> st?
[17:31:34] <SpeedEvil> st.com
[17:31:53] <zeeshan> http://www.omega.ca/pptst_eng/PX309_mA.html
[17:31:55] <zeeshan> i want something like this
[17:31:57] <furrywolf> SpeedEvil: he apparantly has gotten himself a quite large budget for this project
[17:32:20] <furrywolf> every time I suggest a cheap way of doing things, he finds an expensive part that makes it more complicated. :P
[17:32:47] <zeeshan> bah that cant handle the heat
[17:32:48] <zeeshan> :D
[17:33:10] <furrywolf> just put it on the end of a little copper coil.
[17:33:15] <zeeshan> no
[17:33:24] <zeeshan> i want the pressure at the chamber
[17:33:26] <zeeshan> not at the end of the tube
[17:33:39] <SpeedEvil> zeeshan: it doesn't work that way
[17:33:49] <furrywolf> a second copper coil.
[17:33:52] <SpeedEvil> zeeshan: unless there is significant flow in the tube, there is no pressure drop
[17:34:15] <SpeedEvil> zeeshan: or is this a combustion engine with very fast varying pressures where it may matter
[17:34:53] <furrywolf> SpeedEvil: it's a strain-applying test rig for his shape memory polymers. pressure changes are on the rate of a minute or more for a few psi... :P
[17:34:58] <zeeshan> im thinking there will be a small pressure lag
[17:35:20] <furrywolf> pressure changes travel through the tube at the speed of sound.
[17:35:20] <SpeedEvil> zeeshan: It's basically several times the speed of sound delay in the pipe
[17:35:40] <furrywolf> with no flow, that is.
[17:36:06] <zeeshan> its been a while since ive done fluids :P
[17:36:27] <furrywolf> you're going to need either a very expensive pressure transducer, or to the cool the air.
[17:36:40] <zeeshan> ok ill put it at the end of the coil
[17:36:44] <furrywolf> ones like you pasted operate the electronics at the fluid temperature...
[17:39:25] <JT-Shop> Tom_itx, http://www.linuxcnc.org/docs/2.7/html/config/moveoff.html
[17:40:36] <Tom_itx> thanks
[17:41:38] <zeeshan> slowly all this mechanical stuff is comin together
[17:41:45] <zeeshan> find me remote mount fans!
[17:42:03] <furrywolf> you mean a motor and a fan blade? :P
[17:42:14] <zeeshan> kina like a nema23 stepper mount
[17:42:20] <zeeshan> when people make like 4 spacers
[17:42:25] <zeeshan> but th e shaft needs to be like 4" long
[17:42:38] <zeeshan> prefarrably 110vac
[17:43:00] <zeeshan> http://www.electronicplus.com/images/products/290-0092F.jpg
[17:43:05] <zeeshan> i found this 3" metal fan blade
[17:43:18] <zeeshan> it needs a 3/16" shaft
[17:43:19] <furrywolf> any motor, a shaft coupler, a shaft, a bearing, a fan disc?
[17:43:37] <zeeshan> a cheap motor can can spin that at 1750 rpm would be nice
[17:44:22] <furrywolf> sure you don't want slow speed, to prevent vibration, ripples, etc from screwing with your polymer?
[17:44:34] <zeeshan> might not be enough cfm?
[17:45:50] <furrywolf> you don't need much cfm. lol
[17:45:58] <zeeshan> turbulence!
[17:46:08] <furrywolf> you're trying to heat/cool a small volume of air and a thin polymer with almost no thermal mass
[17:46:28] <furrywolf> turbulence creates localized pressure and vacuum on your polymer, and is bad. :P
[17:46:52] <furrywolf> you don't want your polymer fluttering.
[17:47:58] <zeeshan> meh :/
[17:48:03] <zeeshan> its better to have more fan than less!
[17:48:08] <zeeshan> so i can always slow it down or something
[17:48:10] <zeeshan> http://www.omega.ca/pptst_eng/PX309-5V.html
[17:48:16] <zeeshan> 0 to 5V output.
[17:48:28] <zeeshan> hmm
[17:50:49] <zeeshan> too bad the raspberry pi 2 doesnt have an internal adc.
[17:51:16] <SpeedEvil> Or sanity.
[17:51:29] <zeeshan> im so used to using it though now
[17:51:37] <zeeshan> itll be a pain to switch to beagle bone
[17:51:38] <furrywolf> you're not getting .1% accuracy out of any component on an rpi.
[17:51:41] <SpeedEvil> (for example, GE MAC on-board, or more than one USB port that everythings connected to.
[17:51:52] <zeeshan> furrywolf: what does raspberry pi have to do with anything?
[17:51:52] <SpeedEvil> furrywolf: time is quite easily to within .1%
[17:52:01] <zeeshan> w/ accuracy
[17:52:18] <zeeshan> it depends on the adc the sensor is connected to
[17:52:19] <zeeshan> ..
[17:52:21] <zeeshan> :P
[17:52:29] <furrywolf> because it's built using low-cost on-chip components, which don't tend to have precision instrument amps, etc?
[17:52:39] <zeeshan> you use an external precision amp
[17:52:49] <zeeshan> and send the data over serial
[17:53:00] <furrywolf> how about using a cheapo chinese multimeter with rs232 output? :P
[17:53:13] <zeeshan> if i didnt have to log vs time
[17:53:17] <zeeshan> i would do that
[17:53:24] <furrywolf> what's your time scale?
[17:53:38] <zeeshan> .1 s would be good neough
[17:53:55] <furrywolf> http://www.amazon.com/TekPower-TP4000ZC-RS232-Interfaced-Ranging-Multimeter/dp/B000OPDFLM I have one of those, it seems to work well.
[17:54:10] <zeeshan> the rp2 is also my pid controller
[17:54:17] <zeeshan> for the pressure
[17:54:48] <furrywolf> what's your maximum pressure?
[17:54:52] <zeeshan> 100
[17:54:54] <zeeshan> psi
[17:54:59] <furrywolf> so .1 PSI is .1%... have fun with that!
[17:55:49] <SpeedEvil> furrywolf: Err - the ADC utterly decouples the accuracy from the accuracy of the components on the Pi
[17:56:05] <furrywolf> SpeedEvil: I mean if he used a built-in one
[17:56:09] <SpeedEvil> There is none.
[17:56:21] <furrywolf> sure there is
[17:56:36] <zeeshan> what adc is in thre?
[17:56:42] <zeeshan> i havent seen any word about one! :P
[17:56:47] <furrywolf> doesn't it have a stereo audio chip? :P
[17:57:23] <furrywolf> or did they not include line-in?
[17:58:16] <zeeshan> http://www.phidgets.com/products.php?category=35&product_id=1048_0
[17:58:17] <furrywolf> bah, looks like the left out the line-in. nevermind.
[17:58:38] <zeeshan> this is what i wanna use for temp datalog
[17:59:35] <furrywolf> ... $100? the $33 multimeter I pasted comes with a thermo-probe of some form. :P
[17:59:46] <zeeshan> can it handle 4 thermcouples?
[18:00:04] <zeeshan> $132 in multimeters? :)
[18:00:35] <furrywolf> no, but that's better than $400... lol
[18:00:39] <furrywolf> surely you can find a cheaper board
[18:02:12] <furrywolf> it suggests it has a k-type thermocouple good to 750C. I have mine somewhere, and it didn't look built able to withstand quite that high...
[18:02:29] <Rab> Ffffuuuuuuuuuuu, used threadlocker for some fasteners going through polycarbonate into aluminum. A tiny amount wicked out of one of the holes, under the plastic...instant stress cracking.
[18:02:37] <SpeedEvil> furrywolf: insulation varies
[18:02:51] <SpeedEvil> furrywolf: if it's got PVC wires, it's not going to 750C
[18:03:11] <SpeedEvil> Polycarbonate is a bitch
[18:03:16] <SpeedEvil> If you care about solvents
[18:04:00] <Rab> Wonder if there's some kind of paste compound I can apply down in the threads. No fasteners of this type available with threadlocking already applied, unfortunately.
[18:04:28] <furrywolf> Rab: hot glue
[18:05:00] <furrywolf> it doesn't bond as tightly as, say, red loctite, but it's quick to use and has no solvents. :)
[18:05:07] <Rab> furrywolf, interesting.
[18:05:12] <SpeedEvil> Or epoxy
[18:05:23] <SpeedEvil> If you don't actually want it out again
[18:05:32] <furrywolf> lol
[18:05:42] <furrywolf> I've used jbweld on things I explicitly DID want to come out again.
[18:05:52] <Rab> This is a prototype, but the screws in the final product shouldn't need to be removed.
[18:05:54] <SpeedEvil> Well - that too
[18:06:05] <Rab> Unless the polycarb cracks and needs to be replaced. ;)
[18:06:18] <furrywolf> epoxy is great for things with damaged threads. fill with epoxy, thouroughly grease the screw (making sure to get to the bottom of the threads), screw it in. let epoxy set, back out screw... perfect threads.
[18:06:34] <SpeedEvil> yeah - that can work well.
[18:06:41] <SpeedEvil> I've used that to make connectors too.
[18:07:03] <SpeedEvil> same way - cover the actual connector hole with tape, grease, press into epoxy
[18:07:14] <furrywolf> all the lights on my jeep cherokee were held in that way. jeep decided wood screws into fiberglass was the idea way to attach things. that works about once...
[18:07:24] <furrywolf> ideal
[18:07:45] <furrywolf> second time the screw just spins
[18:09:11] <furrywolf> Rab: or, if you have room, use nylocks instead of threadlock
[18:10:46] <Rab> furrywolf, the screws go into threaded aluminum mounting arms. I'd have to drill out the threads and find longer screws to use locknuts.
[18:11:55] <Rab> I wonder if I can apply threadlocker to the threads and let dry.
[18:15:13] <Computer_barf> so on a mill, should the table be moving forward or backwards when I press the + jog button?
[18:22:46] <zeeshan> tool should come towards you
[18:22:50] <zeeshan> table should go away from you
[18:22:58] <zeeshan> for Y.
[18:23:11] <zeeshan> (assuming your table moves in the Y direction)
[18:23:24] <SpeedEvil> https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1598272670/chip-the-worlds-first-9-computer if the Pi is too expensive for your CNC
[18:23:33] <zeeshan> i could be wrong ;-)
[18:24:24] <Computer_barf> my table moves on the y direction. when I press Y+ on axis, the table moves twords me
[18:29:40] <Rab> Sounds right to me, table moving toward you means the tool makes a path toward Y+: http://www.cliffsnotes.com/assets/255358.png
[18:30:48] <zeeshan> sorry i was wrong
[18:30:50] <zeeshan> use right handle right
[18:30:52] <zeeshan> rule
[18:31:15] <zeeshan> when your tool moves to the right that is +x , tool away from you is +y , tool going up is +z
[18:31:47] <KimK_laptop> Yes, when you push jog something+, the *tool* should move in the something+ direction (even if the tool doesn't move at all).
[18:31:58] <Rab> And of course if the tool is fixed and the table moves, that's inverted.
[18:32:14] <zeeshan> :D
[18:33:19] <zeeshan> i notice that a lot of pid controllers directly have a thermocouple connected to it..
[18:33:27] <renesis> the z is the trucky one because it actually moved the tool not the work
[18:33:33] <renesis> typical mill
[18:33:40] <zeeshan> is an auxillary output for that temp sensor for datalogging purposes common?
[18:33:48] <renesis> trucky (c) rencorp
[18:48:58] <Computer_barf> what can be used to clear up some staining on the surface of the bed?
[18:51:25] <SpeedEvil> Computer_barf: put it through a hot-wash with extra detergent? Bleach the stained spots?
[18:51:31] <SpeedEvil> err - wrong channel
[18:51:53] <Computer_barf> surface of the bed of a mill lol
[18:54:23] <SpeedEvil> Beaching the stained spots will certainly do something.
[18:54:43] <Computer_barf> i think bleach on steel = rust
[18:55:21] <Computer_barf> transforming some slight discolaration from some spattered areas into rusty patches doesn't sound good
[18:55:47] <Computer_barf> im wondering what would be abrasive to gunk but not abrasive to steel
[18:56:22] <Computer_barf> ive heard of some people using steel wool but was thinking maybe find somehting more mild
[19:00:03] <SpeedEvil> brass wool can work.
[19:20:24] <zeeshan> scotch brite!
[19:26:48] <zeeshan> hmm, maybe i should use mesa hardware + linuxcnc
[19:26:53] <zeeshan> for temp and pressure pid control !
[19:27:14] <Tom_itx> why not use a $2 avr
[19:27:26] <zeeshan> im not competent in microelectronics
[19:27:29] <zeeshan> i can only work with macro
[19:27:38] <zeeshan> and i want as much plug and play as possible
[19:27:50] <zeeshan> the intent of my thesis isn't how to design a pid controller :P
[19:27:54] <zeeshan> i need results asap!!
[19:28:33] <furrywolf> yay, useful(ish) thing done! mowed lawn.
[19:28:38] <furrywolf> new $0 lawnmower works well.
[19:28:44] <furrywolf> could use more power, but oh well.
[19:28:56] <zeeshan> mesa can switch relays which control the two pressure solenoids for pressure control, and relay for solenoid forfluid flow + relay for heater eelements for temp control
[19:29:22] <zeeshan> only problem i see is the lacking adc for temp and pressure sensing
[19:29:23] <furrywolf> I don't know how general-purpose linuxcnc's pid stuff is
[19:29:36] <furrywolf> the mesa stuff has adcs, but 8-bit, poorly linear.
[19:29:42] <zeeshan> http://linuxcnc.org/docs/html/man/man9/pid.9.html
[19:29:52] <zeeshan> looks pretty well documentated! :P
[19:30:21] <zeeshan> and im familiar with linuxcnc's interface
[19:30:26] <zeeshan> so it might be easier for me
[19:31:35] <Tom_itx> yeah and there's just nobody around to help if you get stuck either
[19:31:54] <zeeshan> or i use the rp2, python, and gpio
[19:31:56] <zeeshan> i could prolly do the same
[19:32:15] <zeeshan> =/
[19:33:10] <zeeshan> http://labjack.com/products?gclid=CIOple3tsMUCFQwzaQod9kwAMg
[19:33:13] <furrywolf> "People who prefer that behavior are welcome ... to write their own version of pid." lol
[19:33:13] <zeeshan> my friend was recommending this
[19:34:08] <furrywolf> check software support on anything you buy. you need something with working, current, non-buggy drivers for your OS of choice, preferably open-source for when they invariably don't actually work.
[19:34:21] <zeeshan> yes itll definitely be open source
[19:34:26] <furrywolf> you need to be able to write software to interface to it
[19:34:42] <furrywolf> which means a documented api, or a documented protocol if talking to it directly
[19:35:08] <zeeshan> ideally id like to avoid any third party things..
[19:35:28] <t12> why not just cheapo din panel mount PID controllers?
[19:35:29] <zeeshan> the transducer currently outputs 0-5v, so it just needs to go through an adc
[19:36:19] <zeeshan> t12 find me one with 2 SSR outputs, 1 thermocouple input, and an output for temperature in 0-5 or 0-10v
[19:36:23] <zeeshan> :)
[19:36:53] <t12> 2 indepnedent ssr outputs?
[19:36:59] <zeeshan> yes
[19:37:06] <t12> for two independent pid loops ?
[19:37:07] <zeeshan> one will control heating elements, one controls cooling
[19:37:12] <zeeshan> no
[19:37:14] <zeeshan> for the same pid loop
[19:37:29] <t12> how much power
[19:37:49] <zeeshan> this might be overkill, but worst case should be 2000W.
[19:38:01] <zeeshan> for the one ssr
[19:38:06] <furrywolf> hrmm, some of the mesa boards have better analog inputs
[19:38:07] <zeeshan> and the other ssr only draws like 10W
[19:38:16] <zeeshan> furrywolf: which one?
[19:38:37] <furrywolf> In addition the 7I65 has eight 12 bit + sign A-D inputs ... Analog inputs also have software selectable ranges including -10V to +10V, -5V to +5V, -2.5V to +2.5V and 0V to +5V. Input and output ranges can be selected on a channel by channel basis.
[19:38:57] <zeeshan> nice!
[19:39:14] <furrywolf> The 7I87 is remote isolated eight channel +-10V analog input card. All channels have 12 bit resolution and selectable averaging.
[19:39:15] <zeeshan> i forgot all the calculations about how to go from bits to real numbers :)
[19:39:21] <t12> http://www.ascontecnologic.com/en/products/industrial-automation/industrial-controllers/x1-q1/x1
[19:39:28] <furrywolf> 2^12 = 4096
[19:39:57] <zeeshan> isn't it 2^11?
[19:39:59] <zeeshan> i forget why
[19:40:00] <t12> looks like that does heat/cool
[19:40:00] <zeeshan> sign or something
[19:40:06] <t12> and voltage output
[19:40:17] <furrywolf> zeeshan: to quote what I just pasted, "12 bit + sign"
[19:40:17] <zeeshan> t12 where are you reading voltage output
[19:40:26] <t12> Process outputs
[19:40:27] <t12> 1 High level analogue output (optional):
[19:40:27] <t12> - For PV retransmission
[19:40:27] <t12> - Current (mA): 0/4...20 mA
[19:40:36] <zeeshan> yes but in current
[19:40:36] <zeeshan> :/
[19:40:48] * zeeshan looks at their other controllers
[19:40:53] <t12> also rs485
[19:40:58] <t12> you can just ask it temp via rs485
[19:41:00] <furrywolf> 4-20ma is very, very standard.
[19:41:05] <zeeshan> i know
[19:41:26] <zeeshan> i'd like to work with 0-5v or 0-10V!@ :P
[19:41:28] <t12> theres also 4-20 to voltage converters are easy
[19:41:38] <furrywolf> in fact, I'm surprised none of the mesa boards have 4-20ma inputs. I guess they figure you can just use your own resistor.
[19:42:02] <zeeshan> youd need a gain amplifier, no?
[19:42:07] <zeeshan> thats a pretty small current output
[19:42:28] <zeeshan> t12: after working with modbus, i notice that it is pretty slow :[
[19:42:41] <t12> http://www.omega.com/techref/das/4-20ma.html
[19:42:44] <furrywolf> 20ma across a 250 ohm resistor is 5V.
[19:43:06] <t12> how fast do you need
[19:43:17] <t12> at 2kw head/cool you shouldnt really need to sample that much
[19:43:22] <t12> s/head/heat
[19:43:30] <zeeshan> 5 samples per sec would be nice
[19:43:35] <zeeshan> to syncronize with my strain map
[19:43:38] <zeeshan> which can handle that
[19:43:40] <t12> depends on the device prolly
[19:43:47] <t12> i'd expect it to comm at 9600baud easy
[19:44:03] <t12> other than that the pid update loop which is often slow on these
[19:44:19] <zeeshan> okaky i see why 0-20mA is nice
[19:44:28] <t12> though i guess they could just read out the temp probe to serial outside the loop
[19:44:30] <zeeshan> you can use an appropriate resistor to output 0-5 or even 0to10V
[19:44:32] <zeeshan> makes sense
[19:44:57] <furrywolf> 0-20ma is rare. 4-20ma is standard.
[19:45:24] <furrywolf> and you don't usually want to do 0-10v, because that'll raise your loop voltage over 24v with many devices
[19:46:25] <zeeshan> this controller is like 300$?
[19:46:34] <zeeshan> nm
[19:46:35] <zeeshan> 75
[19:46:40] <zeeshan> http://www.eurothermcontrollers.com/ascon-x1-heat-cool-temperature-controller/
[19:46:55] <furrywolf> the 4ma has two purposes... it allows small devices to power themselves off the loop even when they have nothing to output, and it allows for instant, easy detection of a broken loop.
[19:47:11] <zeeshan> ah
[19:47:18] <t12> i think theres also a noise immunity thing
[19:48:47] <zeeshan> http://www.ascontecnologic.com/sites/ascontecnologic.com/files/MIU_X1_EN.pdf
[19:48:48] <zeeshan> page 10
[19:48:52] <furrywolf> being able to power sensors off the loop makes wiring much simpler - a sensor can have only two wires to it, for both power and signal combined.
[19:49:04] <zeeshan> pin 32 looks like L1
[19:49:23] <zeeshan> pin 31 looks like switched heating
[19:49:30] <zeeshan> and pin 33 looks like switched cooling
[19:49:31] <furrywolf> and knowing when you have a wiring fault is very useful in general. :)
[19:49:33] <zeeshan> am i correct? :)
[19:50:42] <furrywolf> that does look like what they explicitly tell you, yes. :P
[19:52:01] <zeeshan> i wonder if i can use this directly
[19:52:03] <zeeshan> for pressure control too!
[19:52:44] <zeeshan> yep ther is a deadband parameter..
[19:54:08] <furrywolf> probably not, unless it has a mode for a generic voltage input instead of a temperature sensor
[19:54:16] <zeeshan> thats what im lookin for
[19:54:44] <zeeshan> sweet you can set the setpoint remotely
[19:54:49] <zeeshan> t12: thank you!
[19:54:53] <t12> np
[19:55:27] <furrywolf> it does have a 0-50mv input it looks like
[19:55:59] <furrywolf> so you'd need to build a precision ($5/resistor) voltage divider for a 0-5v sensor
[19:56:14] <t12> if not theres likely a similar type of device for piding pressure
[19:56:23] <zeeshan> http://www.omega.ca/pptst_eng/PX309_mA.html
[19:56:27] <zeeshan> this output 0-25mA
[19:56:36] <zeeshan> er
[19:56:38] <zeeshan> 4 to 20 mA
[19:56:39] <zeeshan> .
[19:56:50] <zeeshan> t12 yea? which one
[19:57:51] <zeeshan> http://www.ascontecnologic.com/en/products/industrial-automation/advanced-programmer-controllers/x5-q5/x5
[19:57:55] <zeeshan> this one takes 0-5V inputs..
[19:58:12] <t12> and 4-20
[19:58:16] <zeeshan> perfect!
[19:58:40] <t12> i've not used that make
[19:58:50] <t12> so i cant vouch but
[19:58:53] <t12> specs look good?
[19:59:03] <zeeshan> yea it sounds good
[19:59:04] <zeeshan> and its cheap
[19:59:14] <t12> diying pids
[19:59:17] <t12> is so fkn annoying
[19:59:29] <t12> i've watched it go wrong very annoyingl
[19:59:31] <t12> y
[19:59:32] <zeeshan> haha
[19:59:41] <zeeshan> that 75$ is a clearance price
[19:59:48] <zeeshan> the x5 is even more expensive
[19:59:52] <t12> you'll find theres other vendors
[19:59:55] <t12> with similar stuff
[20:00:03] <t12> theres cheap china ebay ones too
[20:00:12] <furrywolf> I thought you had an infinite budget? :P
[20:00:22] <zeeshan> furrywolf: lol
[20:00:35] <zeeshan> its not infinite, but its large enough
[20:00:48] <zeeshan> i dont wanna spend all of it on just design and building
[20:00:53] <zeeshan> need room for troubleshooting
[20:00:55] <Tom_itx> he must spend it to get it
[20:01:13] <t12> you need an academic PO embezzeler
[20:02:03] <t12> theres a whole funny business of
[20:02:11] <t12> for large instutitions that only want to pay with PO
[20:02:17] <t12> and want to buy something off ebay
[20:02:29] <t12> you take their PO's, mark them up some percentage, and buy the thing off ebay and have it shipped to them
[20:03:17] <furrywolf> that's easy. you talk to your buddy at some place that takes POs, buy something from him for ten times list price, he gives you the thing and eight times the list price cash.
[20:03:55] <furrywolf> (and one times the list price goes into his pocket for helping out)
[20:04:17] <zeeshan> http://www.omega.ca/pptst_eng/CN7600_Series.html#ManualList
[20:04:19] <zeeshan> cheaper
[20:04:44] <zeeshan> i dont see pv/sv retransmission though
[20:04:46] <zeeshan> might be blind :)
[20:05:16] <zeeshan> does have rs485..
[20:05:40] <t12> you could always sample the temp over again
[20:05:46] <t12> with something easier to datalog from
[20:05:54] <zeeshan> trying to avoid external adc's
[20:06:22] <furrywolf> I have a hard time imagining anything that speaks rs485 not providing the current process input over it
[20:06:26] <zeeshan> if i cant figure it out
[20:06:28] <furrywolf> but, I'm eating, so I'll let you rtfm.
[20:06:29] <zeeshan> rs485 it is..
[20:07:52] <t12> rs485 is likely easiest way
[20:08:05] <zeeshan> i even have a modbus driver
[20:08:11] <zeeshan> ill just need communication addresses
[20:14:47] <zeeshan> is it common to use a contactor that gets actuated by the pid controller
[20:14:58] <zeeshan> so you can pretty much run unlimited heating elements? :p
[20:15:18] <t12> sure why not
[20:15:23] <t12> no need to run it all through the panel thing
[20:15:35] <zeeshan> this thing seems to be limtied to 5A .
[20:15:38] <zeeshan> @ 240vac
[20:15:59] * zeeshan likes omega, we have an account with them
[20:16:05] <zeeshan> so not a lot of bs when trying to order things
[20:17:05] <furrywolf> do you have ~2 months to get this entirely built and tested, collect data, analyze data, and write a thesis?
[20:17:17] <zeeshan> i got a year
[20:17:28] <furrywolf> ah, so you're not planning on graduating this summer. :P
[20:17:28] <t12> what is this thing again
[20:17:40] <zeeshan> yes furrywolf, id like to collect all my data this summer
[20:17:44] <zeeshan> and analyze during the winter
[20:17:49] <zeeshan> and revisit the experiment in the winter if i have to
[20:17:53] <zeeshan> and write the thesis then
[20:18:10] <zeeshan> t12: i am doing a biaxial tensile test of shape memory polymers
[20:18:21] <zeeshan> under temperature control
[20:18:40] <furrywolf> he's blowing sheets of them up like a balloon and watching them shrink when he heats them
[20:19:00] <t12> an engineering balloon fetishist
[20:19:03] <zeeshan> hahaha
[20:19:12] <furrywolf> correct
[20:19:25] <zeeshan> ive also found a temperature where this smp doesn't come to its original flat shape
[20:19:32] <zeeshan> i wanna scientifically show that temperature now
[20:19:41] <zeeshan> and show that it doesnt degrade the properties of the film even after hitting that temp
[20:20:19] <furrywolf> as in, you stress it at this temperature, and then it won't return if you heat it?
[20:21:03] <zeeshan> so you remember how after you stress it, it keeps that shape? but after you heat it to say 40c, it comes back to its original flat shape?
[20:21:06] <t12> is it an edge temp
[20:21:10] <t12> edge of range
[20:21:27] <zeeshan> i dunno, i keep calling it the melt temp, but the chem eng prof says its not
[20:21:43] <furrywolf> you need to find which polymer you need to make car body panels that won't soften in the hot sun, but return to shape if you aim a bunch of IR lights at them.
[20:21:58] <t12> for the rubbermaid car
[20:21:58] <zeeshan> so now if i take the flat sheet and make a balloon out of it, and heat it to this special temp
[20:22:17] <zeeshan> and then cool it , no matter how much i heat it, it stays as the balloon
[20:22:24] <zeeshan> if i deform it to some other shape, and heat it
[20:22:24] <furrywolf> so you've found the temperature that makes it decide its current shape is its new default shape
[20:22:26] <zeeshan> it'll stay as the baloon
[20:22:32] <zeeshan> yes
[20:22:39] <zeeshan> that actually makes me smile
[20:22:45] <zeeshan> cause all these guys told me it was impossible.
[20:22:52] <furrywolf> lol
[20:22:59] <zeeshan> firephoto: like it was impossible to get the 3d point cloud firephoto
[20:23:02] <zeeshan> furrywolf: , remember? :)
[20:23:37] <furrywolf> you should demonstate it by molding it, above this temperature, by pressing in SEE I TOLD YOU SO. then flatten it while it's cold. show them the flat sheet it, then heat it so it returns to the default shape... with the lettering.
[20:23:59] <zeeshan> i did
[20:24:05] <zeeshan> infact i did it in front of one of the profs
[20:24:10] <zeeshan> and he still didnt believe me?
[20:24:14] <furrywolf> lol
[20:24:21] <zeeshan> i think he's just upset he didnt find the temp
[20:24:23] <furrywolf> that's because it didn't tell him "I TOLD YOU SO".
[20:24:24] <furrywolf> :P
[20:24:45] <zeeshan> there is quite a bit of politics between the chem eng polymer group and metal forming mech eng group
[20:24:50] <zeeshan> its kind of silly and lame
[20:24:52] <furrywolf> the impossible-to-get 3d point cloud that some random person over the internet, having never seen the device before, recovered in a couple hours?
[20:24:53] <zeeshan> people need to grow up
[20:25:02] <zeeshan> lol
[20:25:11] <zeeshan> i still cant believe you found that memory address
[20:25:24] <zeeshan> i but the thermal camera stuff by flir is the same shit.
[20:25:44] <t12> lol
[20:25:46] <t12> academic fights
[20:25:49] <t12> i've seen some lol ones
[20:25:50] <furrywolf> flir is popular enough it's probably well-documented
[20:25:58] <furrywolf> politics is why I don't teach.
[20:26:02] <t12> the fancier the university the more insane they get
[20:26:18] <furrywolf> I was thinking of being a teacher. then I saw the politics...
[20:26:37] <zeeshan> its cause they have so much pressure to publish stuff
[20:26:40] <zeeshan> or they dont get funding
[20:26:46] <zeeshan> so it becomes cut throat competition.
[20:26:59] <t12> only sorta
[20:27:02] <t12> once they get old enough
[20:27:07] <t12> you just get grants by default
[20:27:07] <furrywolf> how is the polymer formed? solvent evaporation, or cooling of a molten mixture?
[20:27:15] <t12> i've watched senile professors run 30 person labs
[20:27:17] <zeeshan> furrywolf: i dont know
[20:27:21] <zeeshan> and im not supposed to find out either
[20:27:27] <furrywolf> lol
[20:27:28] <zeeshan> its propitery secret
[20:27:37] <zeeshan> i mean we have all the equipment to figure out its blend and stuff
[20:27:38] <t12> lol
[20:27:40] <t12> whos secret
[20:27:41] <zeeshan> but thats part of the agreement not to
[20:27:49] <furrywolf> is it thermoplastic or thermoset? :P
[20:27:51] <zeeshan> the company who provided it
[20:28:02] <zeeshan> furrywolf: it must be a thermoplastic
[20:28:18] <furrywolf> then it entirely makes sense that it'll keep its shape if you re-melt it. lol
[20:28:25] <zeeshan> but thats the thing
[20:28:28] <zeeshan> they know its a thermoplastic
[20:28:31] <zeeshan> yet they said you couldnt do that
[20:28:34] <zeeshan> that boggled my mind
[20:28:57] <furrywolf> so write a nice paper on the topic, and hope they don't fail you for disagreeing with them. :)
[20:29:07] <zeeshan> luckily he's not mysupervisor
[20:29:13] <t12> if they disagree
[20:29:34] <t12> just publish it under someone else
[20:29:39] <furrywolf> t12: many people are fully capable of disagreeing with solid evidence and/or reality
[20:29:56] <furrywolf> consider, say, the percentage of religious people on the planet...
[20:30:02] <zeeshan> haha dont start!!
[20:30:13] <zeeshan> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yx5VJ-puthA
[20:30:27] <zeeshan> for the first couple of frames, you can see the permanent shape
[20:31:26] <furrywolf> it won't let me set that video to non-hd. wtf?
[20:31:38] <furrywolf> this'll take an hour or so, and might kill my connection.
[20:31:41] <zeeshan> haha
[20:31:42] <zeeshan> it wont?
[20:32:04] <furrywolf> nope, it's stuck at 720 with the little HD icon showing... clicking it only gives 720.
[20:32:11] <zeeshan> hmm, i see all
[20:32:14] <zeeshan> im using chrome
[20:32:15] <zeeshan> what about you
[20:32:16] <furrywolf> looks like it's pretty short
[20:32:22] * furrywolf gets up and gets more food
[20:33:02] <furrywolf> firefox, but I doubt it matters
[20:34:20] <zeeshan> http://i.imgur.com/eZUJcUE.jpg
[20:34:22] <zeeshan> thats how i formed the shape
[20:34:23] <zeeshan> lol
[20:34:28] <zeeshan> http://i.imgur.com/ZEoc3sc.jpg
[20:34:32] * zeeshan had to use what i could find in 5 min
[20:34:40] <furrywolf> can't load images while loading video
[20:34:44] <zeeshan> haha
[20:34:53] <zeeshan> steal your neighbours wifi!
[20:36:14] <furrywolf> machine a pair of plates to press something interesting into the material (positive and negative), clamp, stick in oven. remove, let cool, press flat. demonstate interesting thing appearing from flat sheet when heated.
[20:36:43] <zeeshan> i did
[20:36:47] <zeeshan> we have a standard punch test
[20:36:53] <zeeshan> http://i.imgur.com/SNJK3En.jpg
[20:36:56] <zeeshan> remember the boobs?
[20:37:03] <furrywolf> maybe "An investigation into re-form temperature of shape memory polymers" and use it as the top of your article.
[20:37:08] <furrywolf> boobs? no
[20:39:36] <furrywolf> so have you demonstrated this property is fully repeatable/reversible, and not permanent damage to the material?
[20:40:13] <zeeshan> i havent changed the ultimate permanent shape many times
[20:40:14] <zeeshan> just once
[20:40:18] <zeeshan> i dont see why it cant change agan and again
[20:40:53] <furrywolf> because your expert told you can't, obviously. :P
[20:41:03] <zeeshan> haha
[20:41:27] <zeeshan> he's an extremely smart guy
[20:41:40] <zeeshan> i just think its the politics coming out
[20:50:22] <furrywolf> annoy him more by naming it the zeeshan temperature of the material...
[20:56:47] <zeeshan> rofl
[20:56:59] <zeeshan> like the Currie temperature?
[20:57:00] <zeeshan> :-)
[20:57:28] <furrywolf> yep
[21:03:40] <zeeshan> http://www.kijiji.ca/v-buy-sell-other/brantford/free-solar-panel-systems/1056544507?enableSearchNavigationFlag=true
[21:03:43] <zeeshan> sounds like a scam ;]
[21:07:28] <furrywolf> there's programs like that here too... they profit from your electricity.
[21:08:03] <Jymmm> eh, some gubermint power co rebate tax writeoff make you sign your home as collateral thingy
[21:08:09] <furrywolf> you let them use your roof, they give you 10% of the money, and keep 90%.
[21:08:34] <zeeshan> lol
[21:08:36] <furrywolf> or you could install your own panels, which requires an upfront cost, but you get to keep 100% instead of 10%.
[21:08:37] <zeeshan> what if the panels break
[21:08:50] <furrywolf> the panels are theirs for the first 20 years, so they fix them
[21:09:04] <Jymmm> zeeshan: says 25 year warranty, doens't say if labor is included
[21:09:28] <furrywolf> it's a way of getting to build a solar farm without having to do things like buy land for a solar farm.
[21:10:40] <furrywolf> in theory, it's a win-win. in reality, with you only getting 10% of the money, you'd have to make sure it exceeds the cost of additional roof costs (if you need a new roof during the next 20+ years...), hassle, etc.
[21:10:55] <CaptHindsight> did the US ever impose that tariff in imported Chinese solar panels?
[21:11:06] <zeeshan> i woulkdnt do it to my place :P
[21:11:36] <CaptHindsight> zeeshan: can you buy panels direct from China without stiff import duties?
[21:13:43] <furrywolf> there's no programs like that in this immediate area, because it's not profitable with the lack of sun here, but in southern california I've heard of them several times.
[21:38:22] <norias> hi
[21:53:50] <zeeshan> CaptHindsight: not sure :P
[22:07:18] <furrywolf> GRRR. I just converted a really nice pilot-point bit into a blank for grinding a lathe cutter from.
[22:13:22] <renesis> thats like how my .005" tip 30 degree pcb cutters turn themselves into engraving bits
[22:13:52] <renesis> i have lots of carbide engraving bits now
[22:17:54] <CaptHindsight> renesis: any crafty uses for broken glass? :)
[22:18:29] <renesis> nothing that feels safe
[22:18:38] <renesis> tempered glass?
[22:19:09] <renesis> you could do some artsy composite with clear resin
[22:19:14] <CaptHindsight> mix with mortar and apply to top of brick fence and walls
[22:19:17] <Tom_itx> pottery?
[22:19:38] <renesis> i dont think you can fire glass to pottery temps
[22:19:43] <renesis> maybe boro
[22:19:58] <renesis> capthindsight: i think ive seen that
[22:20:01] <CaptHindsight> transparent resin cube with neat glass shards
[22:20:07] <renesis> like, with broken bottles, somewhere in LA
[22:20:34] <renesis> right you can put that on a white pedastool and sell it for $300 at a gallery
[22:20:38] <CaptHindsight> http://image.shutterstock.com/display_pic_with_logo/524191/524191,1269018779,6/stock-photo-broken-glass-on-the-top-of-the-wall-49065337.jpg
[22:20:46] <renesis> maybe like 5 of them so you have a body of similar work
[22:21:09] <renesis> yeah thats looks much more intentional
[22:21:11] <SpeedEvil> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sOjn-mqhta4
[22:21:20] <SpeedEvil> Make Recycled Glass Tile 17 - Encapsulated
[22:21:32] <renesis> what im remembering, it looked like the workers threw their beers into the sides of the cement mixer
[22:21:34] <CaptHindsight> https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/236x/bd/a8/e5/bda8e54ae7fbce6f2062e65c70900a66.jpg this will keep the prowlers from coming back
[22:21:57] <renesis> yeah that would be cool with broken mirror
[22:22:25] <renesis> or you do a frame and put a resin layer, sprinkle with glass, and then more resin over top
[22:22:37] <renesis> leave rough, flip, broken glass floor
[22:22:46] <CaptHindsight> http://www.angieslist.com/files/styles/adslider_full/public/null/GlassCountertop10.jpg?itok=x1L0asE6
[22:22:57] <renesis> smooth surface, would be all die hard going to the bathroom at night
[22:23:04] <renesis> feel like a real hero
[22:23:14] <CaptHindsight> http://www.home-style-choices.com/image-files/recy-glass-ctops1-500x332.jpg
[22:23:28] <renesis> the last one is expensive
[22:23:35] <renesis> when its finished like that
[22:23:53] <renesis> they do metal shavings in resin with smooth finish like that
[22:24:22] <renesis> cabinet shop i worked at had huge pieces of it
[22:25:07] <renesis> something like that is a lot sexier than security fence
[22:25:59] <furrywolf> glass on top of a wall is crap. all it takes is a swing with a hammer and wearing leathers.
[22:26:27] <CaptHindsight> yeah a pro is over and passed it in no time
[22:26:40] <renesis> if you have tools you can defeat most stuff
[22:26:50] <CaptHindsight> it's more for people who might wander in without planning
[22:27:01] <renesis> razor wire is the same
[22:27:08] <Tom_itx> put it in front of your window ... aka home alone
[22:27:16] <renesis> pro their is gonna be like whatever, few seconds with some bolt cutters
[22:27:17] <CaptHindsight> thats what the automated machine gun nests are for
[22:27:25] <renesis> samsung makes those
[22:27:29] <norias> oh hell
[22:27:32] <norias> people chatting
[22:27:38] <furrywolf> yes, it keeps those out, while also serving as a big sign saying "you know we have good stuff. you WANT to break in here. you know you do."
[22:28:28] <renesis> yeah why even lock doors
[22:28:33] <CaptHindsight> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w2Cxmha3h6c Jail Gun Turrets from Idiocracy
[22:28:33] <norias> fuck it
[22:28:37] <norias> i don't
[22:28:48] <norias> i just carry a gun everywhere
[22:28:54] <norias> go ahead... come on in...
[22:28:58] <norias> castle doctrine here
[22:29:05] <Tom_itx> yeah leave the door open, just rig it to the trigger of a shotgun
[22:29:09] <renesis> i live on edge of college frat district, i lock the shit to keep drunks from accidentally wandering in
[22:35:49] <CaptHindsight> shameless plug; I put the anodizing colorants that don't need water up on the one site of anyone wants to do fancy anodizing
[22:36:01] <CaptHindsight> of/if
[22:36:10] <CaptHindsight> http://bucktownpolymers.com/anodize00.html
[22:38:41] <zeeshan> one day ill try anodizing!
[22:40:03] <zeeshan> furrywolf: hows your tool grinding going
[22:44:25] <furrywolf> I'm not grinding tools. I'm just converting perfectly good drill bits into objects suitable only for grinding into other tools.
[22:44:40] <zeeshan> lol
[22:46:38] <norias> oh. copenhagen.
[22:50:14] <zeeshan> finally broke my 15.00$ shop vac that ive had for like 8 years now. so much abuse
[22:50:21] <zeeshan> and the reason it broke is cause the cord split :/
[22:51:56] <zeeshan> how do you guys rejoin 110/240vac cables?
[22:52:02] <zeeshan> butt crimps?
[22:52:06] <zeeshan> + electrical tape
[22:52:22] <furrywolf> ... split? or you cut through it with something? lol
[22:52:51] <furrywolf> solder, shrink tube, tape... butt splices, tape... solder, tape... fancy little 3-sided screw in block things... or just having a shorter cord.
[22:52:56] <zeeshan> well it was chafing for a while and ruined the outer pvc jacket
[22:53:01] <zeeshan> so i covered it with tape
[22:53:19] <zeeshan> over time, the internal conductors 's jackets wore out from getting bent all the time
[22:53:23] <zeeshan> and then the copper split
[22:53:59] <zeeshan> i thought you werent suppose to solder ac voltage stuff
[22:54:29] <norias> i've definitely seen ac stuff soldered
[22:54:37] <zeeshan> i see it soldered on pcb boards
[22:54:41] <zeeshan> but never like for distribution
[22:54:48] <norias> i've seen
[22:54:49] <norias> well
[22:54:54] <norias> tinned ends on wire
[22:55:25] <furrywolf> there's nothing wrong with soldering, as long as you're good at it.
[22:55:42] <zeeshan> i remember reading something about whiskers
[22:55:43] <furrywolf> soldering IS still approved for us mains wiring, as long as you're extending a house that had it originally. :)
[22:56:31] <norias> incidentally
[22:56:40] <norias> healthcare reform
[22:56:41] <norias> wtf
[22:56:51] <norias> if this is how we reform stuff, please let's not do that anymore
[22:57:43] <norias> i'm looking at buying health insurance for my wife and I
[22:57:49] <norias> sure, cool, no problem
[22:57:52] <norias> and it made me wonder
[22:58:05] <norias> what do i do if / when i have a first employee?
[22:58:14] <norias> i thought, eh, let them pick whatever plan they dig
[22:58:20] <norias> and reimburse for it
[22:58:25] <norias> nope. illegal.
[22:59:15] <norias> unless, you just happen to pay employees more money
[22:59:22] <norias> and have f'ing clue what they do with it
[22:59:28] <norias> and they just happen to buy insurance
[23:12:59] <furrywolf> I hate harbor freight. really, really hate harbor freight. or maybe it's china.
[23:13:06] <zeeshan> haha
[23:13:08] <zeeshan> what happened
[23:13:30] <furrywolf> I bought a 25ft air hose reel a couple years ago. I used it maybe 5 times, then decided it was too short, and replaced it with a 50ft reel. I got it out today to install for another purpose... the spring is broken.
[23:13:53] <norias> heh
[23:15:26] <furrywolf> I discover this, of course, AFTER it's screwed to the wall and plumbed in.
[23:15:46] <norias> as is often the case
[23:36:37] <furrywolf> http://www.curbsideclassic.com/wp-content/comment-image/33604.jpg so what do you figure the towing capacity of a prius us?
[23:40:09] <CaptHindsight> furrywolf: how about inspecting 4 shop presses until you fin one that looks good then when you get it back to the shop discover that the return spring won't fit since they welded the frame halves to close together
[23:40:25] <furrywolf> lol
[23:41:33] <CaptHindsight> I ended up only having to grind a little off the make it fit, but whatever you do check they will still find some way to fool you
[23:41:34] <PetefromTn_> any of you guys real good with home network media streaming?
[23:42:27] <furrywolf> not I.
[23:42:46] <PetefromTn_> sheeet
[23:42:47] <furrywolf> given as I don't have much of a home network, the only media I have is music, and I don't stream it.
[23:43:34] <PetefromTn_> just picked up a nice Onkyo Audio Video Network receiver and trying to get it setup to stream music from my laptop and phone etc as well as all the rest of the stuff it can do.
[23:44:02] <PetefromTn_> damn this is about as complicated as hal LOL
[23:45:07] <furrywolf> does it access the files and play them, or does the player run on the computer and it sends decoded audio over the network?
[23:45:25] <PetefromTn_> either I think.
[23:45:49] <PetefromTn_> its pretty smart and apparently can control Windows Media Player remotely if I can figure out how to set it up
[23:46:01] <PetefromTn_> I just can't seem to get it on the home network visible
[23:46:22] <PetefromTn_> at least when I turn it on a component pops up but it is a generic one and has no information
[23:46:36] <furrywolf> well, if it streams audio instead of files, it's going to need special software installed on each system...
[23:46:47] <PetefromTn_> but I suck at home networking stuff and don't really know what the hell I am doing
[23:47:22] <PetefromTn_> I don't think so the manual says it works directly with WMP
[23:47:51] <furrywolf> sounds like the problem isn't home networking, it's windows networking and proprietary software.
[23:48:07] <PetefromTn_> http://www.eu.onkyo.com/downloads/2/0/6/3/1/Manual_TX-NR414_En.pdf
[23:48:11] <PetefromTn_> page 26
[23:48:39] <PetefromTn_> I got it to play pandora and whatnot
[23:48:53] <PetefromTn_> and it is playing movies in surround sound nice and clean
[23:49:07] <PetefromTn_> also plays my cellphone stuff via usb
[23:49:16] <furrywolf> that's a large manual.
[23:49:18] <PetefromTn_> just can't seem to get the networking going
[23:49:43] <PetefromTn_> yeah these things are pretty amazing nowadays and this one is not the best or brightest but it is pretty sweet.
[23:50:10] <PetefromTn_> I have WMP12 on the laptop
[23:52:21] <furrywolf> I just have my stereo plugged into a usb sound card on my laptop.
[23:54:24] <furrywolf> I don't have any other sound output devices or file storage locations. heh.
[23:59:25] <furrywolf> and I don't have windows media player. :)