#linuxcnc | Logs for 2015-05-04

[00:05:32] <furrywolf> why would it tie up the parallel port by default, without having detected a printer? I'd file a bug on that.
[00:07:02] <furrywolf> then again, broken by default unless you're a stereotypical desktop user does seem to be the way debian is heading.
[00:07:23] <XXCoder> I love defaults so much :P
[00:07:38] <XXCoder> typical linux comes with billion audio related programs lol
[00:08:07] <furrywolf> audio daemons suck.
[00:08:35] <furrywolf> http://www.ebay.com/itm/21-Inch-Troyke-Horizontal-Rotary-Table-for-Mill-/181730771035 anyone need a cheap rotary table?
[00:09:12] <furrywolf> it probably weighs more than my machine. :)
[00:09:21] <Computer_barf> so any opinyon if the gtk2 engines would be safe or not?
[00:09:38] <XXCoder> furrywolf: its larger than my entire cnc router
[00:09:49] <XXCoder> my machine is taller but thats it lol
[00:09:49] <ve7it> Crom, I lost one of those balls fishing this afternoon :{ Snagged it on a rock that came from 100' deeep to 15' in about 10 seconds of trolling
[00:10:05] <furrywolf> Computer_barf: I'd rate that as pretty safe.
[00:10:23] <Computer_barf> i think interface sounds like it won't mess with hardwear
[00:10:32] <furrywolf> $50 is a quite excellent price, if you have need for such a table.
[00:10:55] <XXCoder> its large enough to be used as portable table lol
[00:11:40] <Computer_barf> tempting
[00:11:46] <Computer_barf> whats wrong with it
[00:12:55] <furrywolf> what's wrong with it is that it's too heavy to move without a forklift, and takes up a whole pallet.
[00:13:18] <XXCoder> did I say portable?
[00:13:31] <XXCoder> its large enough to be used as dinner table lol
[00:13:32] <XXCoder> fixed
[00:14:31] * furrywolf needs an easily cncable 6-8" table
[00:21:03] <Crom> that's why I use weight drops though they don't work on snagged weights. just when some big gets the hook or the hook snags
[00:21:44] <Crom> furrywolf, though about making one from like a front wheel drive spindle?
[00:23:02] <furrywolf> yes. lol
[00:23:08] <furrywolf> I have a pair of 100:1 worm boxes in storage.
[00:23:27] <Crom> there you go!
[00:24:17] <Crom> 20000 steps per rev at 1:1 step 80K at 1:4 microstep
[00:25:21] <furrywolf> I think it'd end up too large. like, most of my milling area.
[00:30:22] <Crom> I'd make it hang off the side of the table so your work would be over the table
[00:32:09] <furrywolf> bbl, wolfy bedtime
[02:21:34] <Deejay> moin
[02:22:04] <XXCoder> night
[02:41:38] <s1dev> does anyone here have a 5 axis mill?
[02:48:04] <XXCoder> I wish
[02:48:59] <archivist> I do
[02:49:25] <archivist> although it is still on 2.4 I think
[02:49:58] <archivist> from before the axis display order could be changed
[03:07:29] <s1dev> this is about something else, we did get it figured out
[03:08:53] <archivist> I have to go out in a couple of minutes http://www.middleton-leawood.org.uk/leawood/
[03:10:02] <s1dev> I got some small 5 axis parts in Inconel and I'm trying to figure out what the best machine for that would be
[03:10:22] <archivist> ew nasty stuff
[03:10:38] <archivist> not my machine, not rigid enough
[03:11:34] <archivist> mine rattles enough on steel
[03:27:08] <Tom_itx> zeeshan, bell peppers like heat like tomtoes
[03:27:13] <Tom_itx> good luck groing em
[07:20:39] <thesaint444> hi guys, just started with linuxcnc. I have a lathe, no touchscreen - what is the best way to use it? ie the best GUI etc..
[07:31:43] <thesaint444> anybody home?
[07:35:35] <SpeedEvil> no
[07:35:56] <SpeedEvil> I haven't yet gotten to that point.
[07:36:15] <SpeedEvil> Now tends to be a quiet time - it's more active in 3-12 hours
[07:38:49] <jthornton> Axis
[07:38:58] <jthornton> with ngcgui
[07:39:37] <_methods> axis
[07:47:37] <jthornton> thesaint444, fyi most people are logged in 24/7 but may not be at their computer
[07:51:25] <Tom_shop> some nap at the pc too
[07:51:35] <jthornton> yea
[07:51:42] <jthornton> morning Tom_itx
[07:51:48] <Tom_itx> JT-Shop got rigid tapping code last night
[07:52:07] <Tom_itx> cad cam will output it now too
[07:52:33] <Tom_itx> need to test it on some iron now
[07:52:42] <thesaint444> ngcgui or linux-features?
[07:53:00] <thesaint444> lol.
[07:53:10] <jthornton> up to you to decide
[07:53:26] <thesaint444> which one will get me up and running quickest?
[07:53:39] <jthornton> http://gnipsel.com/shop/hardinge/hardinge.xhtml
[07:53:41] <Tom_itx> off to play..
[07:53:42] <thesaint444> i am happy to play with it all but i also have some jobs to do!
[07:54:00] <jthornton> I don't have a clue I use ngcgui
[07:54:21] <thesaint444> and it works for you?
[07:54:55] <jthornton> did you look at the link?
[07:55:59] <thesaint444> just did - looks good..
[07:56:27] <thesaint444> profile - can i import a dxf? what is the workflow.. thanks.
[07:56:51] <thesaint444> how to generate the gcode from my dxf?
[07:57:07] <thesaint444> any quick way for that?
[07:59:00] * jthornton heads for the shower cause I have jobs to do as well
[07:59:32] <thesaint444> thanks for the help..
[08:00:33] <_methods> for a lathe most people just program it buy inputting coordinates by hand
[08:00:45] <_methods> rarely need cam for simple lathe parts
[08:01:00] <_methods> most lathe canned cycles will handle anythign you can throw at them
[08:01:20] <thesaint444> _methods - ok...
[08:01:57] <thesaint444> can be quite a bit of work though..
[08:02:10] <SpeedEvil> It really depends also if you're making one, or ten thousand.
[08:02:12] <thesaint444> seems a shame if you already have the part in a cad system
[08:02:35] <_methods> a good lathe programmer will have it programmed before you can load it into your cam system
[08:02:36] <thesaint444> sure, mostly i am making just a couple of each part.
[08:02:39] <SpeedEvil> In many cases, just doing one manual may be faster.
[08:03:04] <thesaint444> i am not sure about that..
[08:03:20] <thesaint444> if the part has multiple curves..
[08:03:21] <_methods> unless you're using a metric shit ton of live tooling and surfacing paths in your lathe, you probably don't need cam
[08:03:32] <_methods> on a lathe
[08:03:45] <thesaint444> so what is the general lathe workflow?
[08:03:48] <_methods> curves are trivial for the built in lathe canned cycles
[08:04:50] <thesaint444> for milling I know i can use say: cad program -> export dxf into sheet cam -> generate gcode -> load into linux cnc -> make part...
[08:05:23] <thesaint444> is there a similar workflow for lathe useage? thanks..
[08:06:23] <thesaint444> _methods - ok, i will give it a go by hand using the ngcgui and lathe subroutines - any examples to be found? thanks..
[08:06:45] <_methods> one sec looking now
[08:06:50] <thesaint444> thanks!
[08:09:15] <_methods> jthornton: are there any roughing/finishing scripts for linuxcnc lathe?
[08:09:36] <_methods> ah that link\
[08:10:09] <thesaint444> _methods - i can do roughing, straight turning, facing by hand..
[08:10:29] <thesaint444> ie writing a gcode program myself.
[08:10:40] <thesaint444> no idea how to do the curve stuff..
[08:10:50] <thesaint444> have not found an example for that..
[08:10:59] <_methods> http://gnipsel.com/files/chnc/subroutines/
[08:11:12] <_methods> profilerad.ngc specifically
[08:11:41] <_methods> but basically g2/g3
[08:11:44] <_methods> just like on a mill
[08:11:56] <thesaint444> yes but what if you have a complicated curve?
[08:12:05] <_methods> g2/g3
[08:12:06] <_methods> lol
[08:12:10] <thesaint444> joining each little bit could take ages..
[08:12:30] <thesaint444> that seems a bit silly...
[08:12:45] <_methods> have you ever programmed a lathe before?
[08:12:49] <thesaint444> nope..
[08:12:53] <_methods> ok
[08:13:09] <thesaint444> just what i have been doing over the last week.
[08:13:37] <thesaint444> i design parts though and some of them are complicated.
[08:13:59] <thesaint444> i generated gcode with a cam system to test it out and there was quite a bit of code.
[08:14:14] <thesaint444> not a five minute job to write.
[08:14:22] <_methods> of course that's what cam systems do, they generate a ton of trash
[08:14:23] <thesaint444> even with canned cycles.
[08:14:28] <thesaint444> lol.. sure.
[08:14:42] <_methods> just like if you used a web site generator
[08:14:53] <_methods> it would output a ton of trash you really don't need
[08:15:01] <thesaint444> but for example people are not writing milling cycles by hand..
[08:15:11] <_methods> it depends on the part
[08:15:14] <thesaint444> so why do it with the lathe?
[08:15:31] <_methods> i have guys out on the shop floor that program stuff by hand all day
[08:15:41] <_methods> they just need a simple decking/hole pattern
[08:15:44] <_methods> why go to cam
[08:15:49] <thesaint444> i agree.
[08:16:04] <thesaint444> not so with complicated curves..
[08:16:28] <_methods> ok well i won't argue with you
[08:16:50] <thesaint444> have you any examples to show me the error of my ways...
[08:17:10] <_methods> what errors of your ways
[08:17:17] <_methods> you've never done it before
[08:17:24] <_methods> how could you have any errors lol
[08:17:45] <thesaint444> error of my ideas then..
[08:18:10] <_methods> i would just say this, don't overcomplicate it
[08:18:16] <_methods> start simple coding by hand
[08:18:25] <_methods> then if you find you really need cam
[08:18:29] <_methods> start using cam
[08:19:19] <thesaint444> ok, thanks.
[08:19:25] <_methods> for mill sure use cam all you want there are plenty of solutions
[08:19:55] <_methods> obviously you could just use your mill software to generate lathe gcode
[08:21:13] <_methods> just replace all the y's with z's
[08:21:26] <_methods> voila lathe cam lol
[08:21:32] <thesaint444> yes, but it generates lots of code and i like to know what its doing. thats why i want to learn to do it by hand first and of course find out what other guys are doing..
[08:21:57] <thesaint444> its not that simple...
[08:21:58] <_methods> well i personally use mastercam
[08:22:03] <_methods> yes it's that simple
[08:22:23] <thesaint444> tool changes?
[08:22:31] <_methods> ye?
[08:22:37] <_methods> t2m6
[08:22:40] <_methods> t3m6
[08:22:45] <_methods> t5m6
[08:22:47] <thesaint444> using the method you just described can be problematic..
[08:22:57] <thesaint444> anyway, have a good day and thanks.
[08:24:40] * JT-Shop finds that 95% of lathe ops can be done with ngcgui and no cad cam is needed
[08:24:50] * _methods agrees
[08:25:37] <_methods> all these kids want to use cam for everything then when something goes wrong they have no idea how to fix it
[08:26:01] <_methods> everyone assumes this has to be simple or something
[08:26:05] <_methods> like 3d printing
[08:29:15] <_methods> so there are no official linuxcnc roughing/finishing cycles for lathe?
[08:47:38] <JT-Shop> it's quite simple to write G code for a lathe with tools like arc generator
[08:47:43] <JT-Shop> and gedit
[08:57:08] <JT-Shop> _methods, G71 has been coded but not incorporated IIRC
[09:04:41] <JT-Shop> I even wrote a python program to do roughing and finishing but never finished it
[09:59:51] <Computer_barf> mornin folks
[10:37:04] <thesaint444> anyone using linux-feature?
[10:41:51] <_methods> anyone have an electronic copy of machine tool reconditioning and applications of hand sraping?
[10:59:39] <t12> https://www.dropbox.com/s/kk11tl1g9ad4n5u/%5BEdward_F_Connelly%5D_Machine_tool_reconditioning_an%28BookFi.org%29.pdf?dl=0
[11:01:28] <_methods> ermhagerd thk you
[11:01:56] <t12> welcome
[11:02:53] <_methods> been lookin all over for that
[11:07:27] <cradek> is that book old enough to be out of copyright?
[11:07:33] <cradek> it's pretty old, isn't it?
[11:07:38] <_methods> pretty sure
[11:07:41] <_methods> it's on scribd
[11:07:52] <_methods> i just don't want to pay for scribd for one book
[11:07:54] <t12> scribd doesnt care about copyright
[11:08:00] <_methods> oh
[11:08:05] <_methods> i thought they were legit or something
[11:08:27] <Rab> They're a ratio site, you have to upload some crap to download.
[11:08:31] <t12> copyright is death of creator + 50-100 years
[11:08:31] <cradek> dang, there used to be a great summary at http://copyright.cornell.edu/public_domain/
[11:08:56] <cradek> t12: no, it's very complicated, and there are many different rules over the years
[11:09:07] <cradek> and I had that great bookmark but it's gone :-(
[11:09:19] <t12> yeah
[11:09:22] <t12> but the answer is usually
[11:09:24] <t12> 'a long time'
[11:09:28] <t12> and the publisher likely owns it anyway
[11:10:05] <cradek> aha, found it: http://copyright.cornell.edu/resources/publicdomain.cfm
[11:11:32] <cradek> first published in usa before 1923? conditions none
[11:11:45] <cradek> what's the copyright date in the book?
[11:11:59] <t12> 55
[11:12:06] <cradek> oh, crap
[11:12:09] <t12> maybe cause of being 3rd print
[11:12:18] <t12> 57 sorry
[11:12:24] <t12> hah.
[11:12:27] <t12> 54. printed 57
[11:12:40] <cradek> then it depends on whether it was renewed
[11:12:59] <t12> since its not a pop album
[11:13:02] <t12> and its not modern software
[11:13:08] <t12> copyright almost doesnt matter
[11:13:45] <cradek> > In the US, books published before 1964 had to get their copyrights renewed at the Library of Congress Copyright Office in their 28th year, or they'd fall into the public domain.
[11:14:05] <_methods> hooray
[11:14:23] <cradek> > A 1961 Copyright Office study found that fewer than 15% of all registered copyrights were renewed. For books, the figure was even lower: 7%.
[11:14:32] <_methods> oh i forgot to check library of congress for it
[11:14:52] <_methods> i've downloaded a lot of old metalworking books from there
[11:57:31] <Loetmichel> *meh* windows update... "8 updates installed, reboot please"... ok, reboot... system up again "3 updates aviable, install?" *grummel, ok* "3 updates installed, reboot please" *GNAAAHHH!!!1111*
[12:18:16] <mozmck> Loetmichel: why do you torture yourself like that?
[12:18:38] <Loetmichel> mozmck: because elite dangerous dosent run on linux
[12:19:02] <cradek> they have consoles that are just for running video games now
[12:19:07] <mozmck> I presume that's a game? I don't have time for those.
[12:31:09] <Tom_itx> _methods what went wrong with my cad cam?? i don't know how to fix it...
[12:31:33] <Tom_itx> sry.. just catching up on the logs
[12:34:21] <Crom> which is why I never turn off my computers...
[12:34:42] <Tom_itx> this one stays on
[12:35:30] <Tom_itx> there are logs though
[12:46:51] <Alessandro-B> I'm trying to install linuxcnc on gentoo and I'm having success for the most part
[12:47:24] <Alessandro-B> but the wiki is to change http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?EmcOnGentoo
[12:51:12] <Alessandro-B> the only thing is that emc2 configure is not aware of libboost_python on gentoo
[12:53:07] <_methods> Tom_itx: hehe
[12:53:45] <_methods> wow you must be a real masochist
[12:53:51] <_methods> gentoo and linuxcnc
[12:55:51] <Alessandro-B> :)
[12:57:30] <ssi> lol
[12:57:33] <_methods> i installed gentoo once, hehe and that was it
[12:57:50] <Tom_itx> i was surprised how easy it was to add rigid tapping to my cam post
[12:58:01] <_methods> what did you end up doing?
[12:58:18] <Tom_itx> ? just added it like any other canned cycle
[12:58:48] <Alessandro-B> I had to change the .ebuilds listed in the wiki
[12:58:52] <_methods> what about the rpm feed/rev
[12:59:05] <Tom_itx> just a checkbox on the tool
[12:59:25] <Tom_itx> you can go rpm or ipm etc
[13:00:03] <_methods> cool i need to add encoder to my spindle before any of that happens
[13:00:08] <Tom_itx> then just change the post from a F word to a K word
[13:00:37] <_methods> you use a standard fanuc word scheme?
[13:00:56] <Tom_itx> i dunno, whatever lcnc wants...
[13:01:04] <_methods> ah
[13:01:18] <Tom_itx> i can mod the post for just about anything
[13:01:29] <_methods> yeah
[13:01:55] <Tom_itx> we had okuma, tree, fadal which were mostly standard fanuc
[13:02:02] <Tom_itx> some were a bit different
[13:02:08] <_methods> yea fadal
[13:02:13] <_methods> knuckleheads
[13:02:15] <_methods> E?
[13:02:17] <_methods> why E
[13:02:25] <Tom_itx> huh?
[13:02:27] <_methods> just use G54 like everyone else
[13:02:33] <_methods> they used E for work offsets
[13:02:43] <Tom_itx> this one didn't that i recall
[13:03:16] <Tom_itx> we did have one bastard tree control
[13:03:22] <Tom_itx> i don't even remember what it was now
[13:03:28] <Tom_itx> conversational
[13:03:35] <_methods> yeah
[13:03:39] <Tom_itx> it was a real pita to program
[13:03:44] <Tom_itx> he finally got rid of it
[13:03:56] <Tom_itx> the others were fine
[13:04:13] <_methods> some of those conversationals try so hard to be easy they become stupidly difficult
[13:05:09] <_methods> so normally on a fadal G54 = E01
[13:05:15] <_methods> G55=Eo2
[13:05:17] <_methods> and so on
[13:05:24] <Tom_itx> i don't remember dealing with that
[13:05:38] <_methods> well if you just used the conversational side you may have never seen it
[13:05:39] <Tom_itx> i think the ones we had were pretty standard
[13:05:51] <Tom_itx> no, we just programmed those
[13:06:00] <Tom_itx> nobody did much conversatonal on the mills
[13:06:08] <Tom_itx> the okuma lathe we did
[13:06:10] <_methods> i think towards the end of the fadal days they may have made it so you could flip a param to use regular gcode
[13:06:29] <_methods> well fanuc style work offset codes
[13:06:51] <Tom_itx> ok lunch over.. back to the coal mine
[13:07:45] <_methods> http://www.cnczone.com/forums/archive/index.php/t-165752.html
[13:07:55] <_methods> fadal work offse/fixture offest chit chat
[13:09:04] <Crom> hmmm interesting project "King Robota"
[13:09:07] <_methods> i guess the fadal's didn't even have extended work offsets
[13:37:47] <FinboySlick> http://imgur.com/ZKUDqaD Anyone with a part numbe for this type of connector? I'm guessing some flavor of molex but google search for 'molex' sort of swarms you with old hard drive type connectors.
[13:39:32] <archivist> could be a molex look alike too
[13:40:02] <Rab> FinboySlick, could be a larger Molex KK series. If you can measure the pin pitch, that will help a lot.
[13:40:19] <zeeshan|2> FinboySlick: http://www.digikey.com/product-detail/en/5041930400/WM10575-ND/4879321
[13:41:10] <zeeshan|2> amc drives use those connectors
[13:41:50] <Rab> FinboySlick's connector looks larger than 1.25mm pitch.
[13:42:09] <archivist> .1" 2.54mm
[13:42:18] <archivist> ish
[13:42:33] <_methods> that's jst isn't i
[13:42:40] <FinboySlick> Rab: I don't have any measuring tools but the center to center pin width between first and last pin is almost exactly the same as the width of a USB connector.
[13:43:34] <FinboySlick> (Type A)
[13:43:48] <Rab> That sounds like 4mm pitch.
[13:44:12] <archivist> which usb :)
[13:44:33] <Rab> Actually, probably .156".
[13:44:36] <FinboySlick> Yeah, I was guessing 5mm but I'm very bad at guestimations.
[13:44:46] <_methods> jst vh
[13:44:56] <_methods> if it's .156
[13:45:21] <_methods> http://www.jst-mfg.com/product/detail_e.php?series=262
[13:45:29] <Rab> Good call, looks like an exact match.
[13:46:31] <FinboySlick> Mine has 22AWG cable though.
[13:47:11] <Rab> VH contacts can use 16-22AWG.
[13:47:16] <_methods> what is the pin to pin pitch then?
[13:47:26] <_methods> measurements will make this much easier
[13:47:48] <_methods> we can only guess without real #'s
[13:48:30] <Rab> FinboySlick, can you provide in-focus photos of the face and rear connector? Particularly the top of the retainer tab; looks like JST put a product code their.
[13:48:34] <Rab> there
[13:48:42] <Rab> Or see if you can read the code.
[13:49:14] <FinboySlick> It really looks like ~4mm given that a type A USB connector matches the center to center pin width between pin 1 and 4.
[13:49:24] <FinboySlick> They're 12mm wide.
[13:50:18] <Rab> JST VH is 3.96mm pitch.
[13:50:52] <archivist> width of a wide usb is .475/3 =.158, just about .156
[13:51:36] <FinboySlick> I can read YSB on the release tab. Looking for more info.
[13:51:57] <archivist> a digital vernier/guessing stick is worth getting
[13:51:57] <Rab> 3.96mm or .156in?!?!
[13:52:06] <cradek> surely 5/32 in
[13:52:20] <cradek> or 4mm
[13:52:30] <cradek> in plastic those two measurements are equivalent
[13:52:32] <archivist> on one uses dem fractions!
[13:52:35] <FinboySlick> Only other characters that I can find are the numbers 1-4 for the pins on top.
[13:52:37] <archivist> no one
[13:53:50] <_methods> pretty sure that's a jst-vh
[13:54:14] <Rab> FinboySlick, http://www.digikey.com/product-search/en?KeyWords=VHR-4N&WT.z_header=search_go
[13:54:41] <_methods> you making a new connector up?
[13:54:43] <Rab> Don't forget the terminals, they're not included. ;)
[13:54:52] <_methods> and the crimper lol
[13:54:55] <_methods> it's $500
[13:55:02] <archivist> pliers
[13:55:06] <_methods> heheh
[13:55:17] <archivist> or solder
[13:55:41] * FinboySlick woahs at the crimper price.
[13:55:43] <CaptHindsight> connectors are a great applications for 3D printers
[13:55:48] <Rab> Solder is very unfavorable. But if I used pliers I would definitely solder.
[13:56:05] <_methods> you can buy a universal ratchet crimper for the jst-vh i believe
[13:56:13] <_methods> so you can get them for like $40
[13:56:32] <CaptHindsight> good thing digikey has those in stock
[13:56:58] <_methods> http://uk.rs-online.com/web/p/crimp-tool-positioners-turrets-locators/7620755/
[13:57:01] <_methods> hahahah
[13:57:21] <Rab> The contact looks like you could use a generic crimper just fine: http://www.digikey.com/product-detail/en/SVH-21T-P1.1/455-1133-1-ND/527367
[13:57:22] <_methods> really are about $400
[13:57:36] <_methods> yeah you can use universal crimper
[13:57:46] <_methods> but the "correct" crimper is $400 lol
[13:57:47] <Rab> That's how you know JST is an economy brand compared to Molex.
[13:58:01] <Rab> Because it's only $400.
[13:58:06] <_methods> hahahahhah
[13:58:39] <_methods> http://www.ebay.com/itm/Engineer-PA-09-Mini-Molex-Amp-JST-Crimp-Tool-Wire-Terminal-Crimping-Pliers-/111577334138
[13:58:42] <_methods> $40
[13:59:04] <CaptHindsight> people are more impressed by fancy ratcheting crimpers than just pliers
[13:59:10] <_methods> or just use pliers like archivist said
[13:59:31] <Rab> Fancy ratcheting crimpers aren't much more than $40. (Sometimes less depending on which dies you want.)
[13:59:53] <archivist> it is all about the guarantee of crimp performance
[14:00:02] <roycroft> the crimp tools i have range in price from ~$50 to ~$2000
[14:00:09] <CaptHindsight> I'll be happy to make you ones much better for 10x the price
[14:00:44] <roycroft> the higher end ones emboss the connector when they're adjusted properly, so you can be sure to have a good crimp
[14:01:06] <CaptHindsight> with the company logo?
[14:01:14] <roycroft> no, with the die number
[14:01:28] <_methods> hydraulic crimpers
[14:01:40] <FinboySlick> Could one source pre-assembled connectors with wire leads?
[14:01:45] <roycroft> when i worked for the telco the inspectors would make sure the correct number was embossed
[14:01:54] <_methods> FinboySlick: look on ebay
[14:01:58] <_methods> they usually have those
[14:02:34] <archivist> some companies just make looms with connectors
[14:02:43] <_methods> i'm not seeing any jst-vh pigtails though
[14:03:25] <FinboySlick> I'd just need a small batch. 50 or so.
[14:04:10] <Rab> You could probably jam on another .156"/3.96mm connector. You wouldn't get the retaining feature, though.
[14:04:41] <Rab> I assume for ~50 this is a commercial job?
[14:04:43] <_methods> lots of jst-xh
[14:05:02] <CaptHindsight> roycroft: we used to have the fancy ones for crimping BNC coaxial connectors
[14:05:16] <roycroft> the $2000 one i have is for power lugs
[14:05:27] <roycroft> 10,000 psi hydraulic crimper
[14:05:41] <CaptHindsight> http://www.harborfreight.com/4-ton-heavy-duty-portable-hydraulic-equipment-kit-44899.html
[14:05:43] <roycroft> i have a pretty expensive bnc crimper too
[14:05:53] <roycroft> that is a piece of shite
[14:06:00] <_methods> yeah i have one lol
[14:06:08] <_methods> it works though
[14:06:09] <roycroft> if you're talking about the $49 hydraulic crimper from hf
[14:06:11] <FinboySlick> Rab: I just need the female part.
[14:06:20] <_methods> works for what i need to crimp
[14:06:38] <archivist> have to use the right cable and connector that the crimper is matched to
[14:06:41] <roycroft> oh, you're talking about the body ram kit
[14:06:42] <_methods> i'd never show it to an electrician though lol
[14:06:43] <Rab> FinboySlick, these guys are selling a 6-pin version. Maybe for qty 50 they'll make up a custom batch. Might be cheaper than paying somebody local to crimp up 50 pigtails. http://www.pc-connector.com/product_detail/land-ctop-2/index.php?Product_SN=142539&PHPSESSID=&Company_SN=17232&Product_Site_Classify_SN=33224
[14:06:46] <roycroft> i have the 10 ton version of that
[14:07:00] <Rab> There are plenty of places which will make small-run cables.
[14:07:04] <CaptHindsight> http://www.greenlee.com/catalog/Cable-Termination/DIE-CABLE-CRIMPERS/Remote-Hydraulic-12-Ton
[14:07:13] <roycroft> i just use the correct tool for the job
[14:07:17] <roycroft> and build the cost of the tool into the bid
[14:07:31] <roycroft> then i have the tool and can make more money on the next job that needs it
[14:07:40] <CaptHindsight> http://www.greenlee.com/catalog/Cable-Termination/DIE-CABLE-CRIMPERS/60-Ton anything under 50 tons is a toy :)
[14:08:49] <CaptHindsight> http://store.sunriseequipment.com/Greenlee_Fairmont_Hydraulic_Crimper_RK6040_60_Ton_p/10604.htm
[14:10:36] <roycroft> anything more than what you need is overkill
[14:12:20] <CaptHindsight> $4500 for the ram, I wonder how much their pump is?
[14:16:34] <Rab> FinboySlick, happy birthday! http://item.ebay.com/251147541325
[14:17:14] <Rab> Actually, here's qty 50: http://item.ebay.com/371051724417
[14:17:58] <Rab> $1.10/ea, if you can work with 300mm leads.
[14:18:08] <_methods> hah good find
[14:18:28] <_methods> your ebay-fu is strong
[14:18:33] <FinboySlick> Rab: Works for me, I only need about 150mm lead.
[14:18:35] <Rab> thanx g
[14:20:01] <CaptHindsight> when I was kid we were allowed to use connectors like that, we had to solder everything after crimping, then encase it all in resin followed by minimum 1/4" steel shell welded in to place :)
[14:20:09] <CaptHindsight> were/weren't
[14:20:16] <Rab> Lot of VH 4-pin connectors/pigtails on eBay, wonder what they're commonly used for. Maybe some kind of PC stuff.
[14:20:30] <_methods> rc cars
[14:20:33] <_methods> copters
[14:20:41] <_methods> battery connectors i think
[14:20:45] <_methods> chargers
[14:20:45] <Rab> ahh
[14:21:02] <Rab> I know smaller JST connectors are used for batteries.
[14:21:03] <roycroft> crimping is better than soldering for connectors in vehicles
[14:21:15] <roycroft> the vibration of the engine causes solder joints to fail over time
[14:21:23] <roycroft> so a proper crimp is preferred
[14:22:15] <Rab> Solder wicks up the cable, creating a stress point.
[14:23:00] <roycroft> i'd say, though, that a decent solder joint is better than a poor crimp
[14:23:18] <roycroft> the take-away from that is not that you should solder when in doubt
[14:23:20] <CaptHindsight> 13.0A pins
[14:23:35] <roycroft> rather it's that you should get the correct crimp tool for the job and ensure that you do a proper crimp
[14:23:51] <CaptHindsight> from the Moles dad sheet: Applications – Voting machines
[14:24:12] <CaptHindsight> – Blood warming bags
[14:24:42] <CaptHindsight> http://rhu103.sma-promail.com/SQLImages/kelmscott/Molex/PDF_Images/987650-9461.PDF
[14:26:23] <FinboySlick> Well, that takes care of one end of my project The other end would be one of those (typically green) screw terminals.
[14:26:51] <Rab> You want to source a screw terminal to put on a PCB?
[14:27:26] <FinboySlick> Not on a pcb. It'd have to mount to a sheet metal case.
[14:27:58] <Rab> Phoenix and Wago are the big players in the "green screw terminal" space, but they're expensive. How's your budget?
[14:28:39] <FinboySlick> This is all pretty much luxury. It'll only go through if it's cheap enough.
[14:28:49] <Rab> There are chinese knockoffs, but I'm really suspicious of that stuff (particularly if you depend on voltage/reliability ratings of the OG connectors).
[14:28:58] <_methods> phoenix screw terminals
[14:29:19] <_methods> you want 4 pin phoenix thru hole pcb terminals?
[14:29:54] <_methods> http://www.ebay.com/itm/5x-4-way-4-Pin-Screw-Terminal-Block-Connector-2-54mm-Pitch-PCB-Mount-HM-/400692581265
[14:29:59] <FinboySlick> Just two actually. That's a power connector, I'll join the pair of leads.
[14:30:04] <FinboySlick> (pairs)
[14:30:19] <_methods> http://www.ebay.com/itm/10x-2-Pin-2-54mm-Pitch-PCB-Mount-Screw-Terminal-Block-Connector-Fits-PCBs-/141451936988
[14:30:23] <_methods> $4
[14:30:24] <Rab> FinboySlick, you could use a barrier strip.
[14:30:28] <_methods> for 10
[14:30:44] <FinboySlick> Rab: Barrier strip?
[14:31:08] <Rab> http://www.talonix.com/images/tsr/TSR0022.jpg
[14:31:08] <_methods> http://www.ebay.com/itm/100PC-2-Pin-Plug-in-Screw-Terminal-Block-Connector-5-0mm-Pitch-Panel-PCB-Mount-/111373398545
[14:31:14] <_methods> 100 for $9
[14:31:15] <_methods> lol
[14:31:26] <_methods> go china
[14:31:31] <Rab> _methods, I thin khe's looking for panel-mount.
[14:31:35] <_methods> oh
[14:31:57] <FinboySlick> Rab: Not quite pannel mount. More like 'through metal case'.
[14:32:07] <_methods> that's panel mount lol
[14:32:14] <_methods> like a speaker connector?
[14:32:21] <FinboySlick> But there's no pcb to hold it. Yes.
[14:32:36] <FinboySlick> Speaker connector would do rather well actually.
[14:32:43] <_methods> http://www.ebay.com/itm/10Pcs-2-Way-Stereo-Speaker-Plate-Terminal-Strip-Connector-Block-/311016596606
[14:33:33] <_methods> if you search speaker terminal on ebay you should find a veritable cornucopia of choices lol
[14:34:03] <FinboySlick> _methods: That'd work. Is there a 'green screw terminal' variety of those?
[14:34:16] <_methods> not sure you'd have to do some searching
[14:35:21] <furrywolf> roycroft: crimping creates just as much of a stress point, if not more so. proper stain relief is the best option.
[14:36:10] <Rab> FinboySlick, again, Phoenix makes the good stuff, but it's not cheap. This is a nice screw terminal plug and panel-mount socket example: http://www.digikey.com/product-detail/en/1757035/277-1013-ND/260381 http://www.digikey.com/product-detail/en/0707264/277-5988-ND/348293
[14:36:24] * furrywolf has three hydraulic crimpers. they're handy!
[14:37:19] <furrywolf> http://www-public.tnb.com/ps/fulltilt/index.cgi?part=13642M gets about 99% of the use
[14:37:20] <FinboySlick> Rab: Those aren't bad for two leads.
[14:37:56] <Rab> FinboySlick, sorry, I forgot you mentioned two lead.
[14:38:01] <FinboySlick> Though I guess *everything* is sold separately.
[14:38:08] <furrywolf> I also have a burndy that currently needs a new pump seal, so doesn't get used, and a smaller chinese one that I don't tend to use because I have a manual crimper for the same size range.
[14:41:17] <Rab> FinboySlick, there's this kind of feed-through terminal. Not sure if you want a semi-permanent screw connection, or a pluggable connector?
[14:41:20] <Rab> http://www.curtisind.com/products/0000000004.jpg
[14:42:34] <FinboySlick> Rab: Permanent is fine, though those are a bit messier to connect to when you just have raw leads.
[14:44:37] <FinboySlick> How much would you say 50 run of sheet metal parts cost? One 90° bend, two mounting holes, and whatever hole(s) are necessary to get the 'green' connector through?
[14:49:46] <Rab> FinboySlick, china knockoff of the Phoenix terminal plug: http://item.ebay.com/321440186833
[14:50:04] <_methods> what material
[14:50:04] <Rab> The panel-mount socket is a little more esoteric, you might have to use the name-brand part.
[14:51:13] <FinboySlick> Rab: Yeah. I think I'd be fine with the Phoenix.
[14:53:31] <_methods> plain carbon steel, aluminum, stainless?
[14:53:45] <_methods> how thick
[14:53:47] <_methods> how fast
[14:53:59] <XXCoder> thats what she asked too
[14:54:10] <_methods> all affect the number of 0's at the end of your price
[14:55:07] <FinboySlick> _methods: Hmmm, typical of an el-cheapo pc chassis. So steel and um.. Not too good with gages but about 0.75mm thick?
[14:55:53] <_methods> 18ga then
[14:55:58] <Rab> FinboySlick, cheaper in black: http://www.digikey.com/product-detail/en/1765551/277-8689-ND/3605987 http://www.digikey.com/product-detail/en/1716878/277-8602-ND/3606230
[14:56:43] <_methods> well i'd say for that probably like $200-250 depending on how many holes you add
[14:56:56] <FinboySlick> Someone with a cnc punch press could get them all out in about 15 minutes assuming it can take a ~1.5" lip.
[14:57:27] <Rab> Actually, about the same in green: http://www.digikey.com/product-detail/en/1779835/277-7269-ND/349043 http://www.digikey.com/product-detail/en/0707109/277-6300-ND/2525214
[14:57:53] <_methods> punch press would cost probably quite a bit more
[14:58:02] <_methods> unless they already had the tooling loaded
[14:58:38] <FinboySlick> _methods: I thought the fancy presses just had a set of generic tools and repeatedly punched whatever profile was needed.
[14:58:46] <Rab> Hmm, this combo is <$4: http://www.digikey.com/product-detail/en/1758364/277-1964-ND/1926180 http://www.digikey.com/product-detail/en/0707248/277-5956-ND/348291 http://www.digikey.com/product-detail/en/0707248/277-5956-ND/348291
[14:58:59] <XXCoder> FinboySlick: nah
[14:59:01] <_methods> they do but turrets can only hold a certain # of tools
[14:59:08] * Rab hopefully done with linkspam
[14:59:14] <XXCoder> well depends on what you need
[14:59:39] <XXCoder> heh I remember this special grinder for press tooling
[14:59:53] <XXCoder> its because tools grow with use so parts would get out of spec
[15:00:04] <_methods> there are lots of specail grinders for punch tools
[15:00:12] <FinboySlick> Rab: I'll need the screws to attach it to the sheet metal too, no?
[15:00:42] <_methods> with metal that thin you should be able to fab up a prototype yourself and prove out your product
[15:00:56] <_methods> then you can find everything you need before you walk into fab
[15:01:00] <XXCoder> FinboySlick: one tricks company I worked at do is use press for basic overall shape and holes
[15:01:08] <XXCoder> then use cnc mill to complete really complex shape
[15:01:16] <FinboySlick> _methods: lasercut and doing the bend myself would likely be a lot cheaper.
[15:01:25] <Rab> FinboySlick, but of course Phoenix has you covered if you don't want to source cheaper M3 screws: http://www.digikey.com/product-detail/en/0708263/277-5786-ND/348302
[15:01:27] <XXCoder> I call it wiggle plate lol
[15:01:33] <_methods> well i'd definitely proto it out myself
[15:01:40] <_methods> that thin is easy to bend
[15:01:49] <_methods> and you could obviously make a bending jig
[15:02:02] <_methods> if you wanted to keep costs down
[15:02:08] <_methods> we charge $1/bend
[15:02:21] <_methods> unless it's some whacky bend or back break
[15:02:33] <_methods> if we have to back break it's about $5 added on for sure
[15:02:40] <XXCoder> back break?
[15:03:04] <FinboySlick> It's a single bend, I could do it myself.
[15:03:08] <_methods> back breaking is what you do when you have a channel shaped part you can't bend in 2 bends
[15:03:09] <furrywolf> $1/bend? I tried getting some sheet steel bent at the local boilerworks, and they wanted $35/bend!
[15:03:18] <_methods> you put a small bend in the center
[15:03:24] <_methods> then bend your 2 flanges
[15:03:30] <_methods> then you flatten the center bend
[15:03:42] <XXCoder> guess thats why its $5
[15:03:49] <JT-Shop> bring it by here you can bend it for free
[15:04:04] <furrywolf> I needed two cuts (on the shear) and two bends, and they wanted close to $200. the project never happened.
[15:04:23] <_methods> setup time is increased drastically too so it ends up being way more than $5
[15:04:54] <_methods> it's for bending deep channels
[15:05:26] <_methods> it's a kludge
[15:05:32] <_methods> but it works
[15:06:24] <furrywolf> I still have the piece of steel. I might still do the project, but it'd be for a different vehicle now.
[15:16:46] <FinboySlick> Actually, looking at things, I found a way to greatly simplify the design. I could probably mill this on my el-cheapo mill.
[15:20:06] <Crom> trying to figure out a chip atmlu726-d2b anyidea what it is?
[15:20:15] <furrywolf> the local boilerworks went out of business... which now makes getting metal a lot harder. but I really don't miss their prices. stupidly high cut charges, and $75/hour labor charge for anything else.
[15:20:59] <furrywolf> seriously, $75/hour? because their time is worth ten times my time? I should work for ten hours for every hour they do? fuck that.
[15:21:01] <Rab> Crom, what's the package?
[15:21:10] <Crom> 8 leg DIP
[15:21:54] <Rab> Crom, makes me think of the uA726 differential pair...not sure if that came in DIP though.
[15:22:21] <XXCoder> furrywolf: probably because shipping job out is still cheaper than that shop
[15:24:08] <Rab> Crom, can you post a pic?
[15:24:46] <Crom> yeah gimme a minute
[15:37:56] <Crom> dang it, having troubles finding my bluetooth download dir
[15:39:49] <FinboySlick> Alright, if I source a 50mm wide, 6mm thick bar of black plastic, I'm set for the 'chassis' aspect of this project.
[15:40:57] <_methods> you should be able to find that at any local hardware store
[15:41:26] <FinboySlick> You overestimate the hardware stores we have around here. I'm fishing for an alternative to onlinemetals.com right now.
[15:42:17] <Crom> http://itslinux.org/cnc/atmlu726/
[15:42:25] <FinboySlick> canadian, alternative, worth noting.
[15:43:01] <FinboySlick> What would you recommend on cheap, black and easy to machine for plastic?
[15:43:14] <Crom> yep crappy cell phone camera
[15:43:18] <Computer_barf> tar
[15:43:23] <_methods> heh this is kinda cool
[15:43:24] <_methods> http://www.instructables.com/id/Metal-Embossing-cool-ornaments/
[15:44:04] <XXCoder> _methods: that is cool
[15:44:13] <Computer_barf> i wonder if hdpe or polyproplene can be milled
[15:44:15] <_methods> hehe ghetto die
[15:44:20] <roycroft> how is a gun drill different from other types of drills?
[15:44:25] <Computer_barf> i mean and not end up looking horrible
[15:44:32] <XXCoder> it also shoots bullets roy ;)
[15:45:07] <roycroft> one could argue that any drill can be a shrapnel emitter if environmental conditions are correct
[15:45:25] <XXCoder> imange this, some criminial enters your shop
[15:45:30] <XXCoder> youre drilling
[15:45:35] <XXCoder> \you take it up and shoot
[15:45:37] <Computer_barf> you mean im drillng
[15:45:56] <_methods> the flutes
[15:46:07] <_methods> on gund drill are totally diff than a regular drill
[15:46:20] <roycroft> in what way?
[15:46:32] <_methods> one sec
[15:46:33] <XXCoder> it uses card stock paper apparently
[15:46:35] <roycroft> all i've found are fuzzy pictures of a gun drill
[15:46:42] <roycroft> they look kind of like reamers to me
[15:46:46] <_methods> straight fluted drills
[15:46:57] <XXCoder> _methods: probnably to force metal to conform
[15:46:58] <_methods> yes they look like reamers
[15:47:08] <_methods> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gun_drill
[15:47:23] <XXCoder> gonna love wiki
[15:48:34] <_methods> trying to find a better explanation
[15:49:14] <roycroft> do the straight flutes help keep it from wandering?
[15:49:37] <Crom> ok got a better picture of it up
[15:49:42] <Jymmm> Is this any good?http://www.reedstrailers.com/rv/petaluma+ca/looktrailers+cargotrailer/2768/look+trailers+look+trailers+st+8+5x24
[15:49:42] <_methods> yeah
[15:49:47] <JT-Shop> stupid windoze 7 wants me to connect my HP 1220c printer with a USB cable so it can install drivers
[15:50:02] <JT-Shop> it's on the network in the beer cave
[15:50:19] <Crom> http://itslinux.org/cnc/atmlu726/atmlu726-d2b.PNG
[15:50:26] <FinboySlick> JT-Shop: That's typically because it does a firmware update at the same time.
[15:51:02] <JT-Shop> I may not like that lol
[15:51:27] <FinboySlick> HP makes horribly bloated drivers.
[15:51:28] <_methods> hmm hard to find any good stuff on gun drill geometry
[15:51:36] <Crom> Jymm sure you want new?
[15:51:45] <roycroft> the application would be accurately boring hardwood
[15:51:59] <roycroft> i wonder if air injection would work to help clear chips
[15:52:01] <_methods> and forstner bit is not working?
[15:52:03] <Jymmm> cradek: Not necessarily, just using it as a baseline price
[15:52:08] <roycroft> fairly deep boring
[15:52:13] <Crom> Jymm it's 102" wide good, still looking at specs
[15:52:27] <_methods> i would think a gun drill would work
[15:52:38] <_methods> overkill for a wood project i would think though
[15:52:46] <_methods> as much as wood moves
[15:53:13] <Crom> ugh beaver tail, I hate them, I really, really hate them
[15:53:30] <_methods> and i would think airblast would work fine
[15:54:06] <Crom> Great axles dexters torsionals are really nice
[15:54:06] <_methods> if you have a way to do through spindle air
[15:55:09] <roycroft> the musical instrument makers seem to all use gun drills for their bores
[15:55:30] <roycroft> and i'm boring in a lathe i should be able to get air through the spindle
[15:55:40] <roycroft> since the gun drill would be stationary
[15:55:53] <FinboySlick> Rab: https://www.pololu.com/product/1928 Would these work on my 4 pin connectors?
[15:56:13] <Crom> Jymm, The back door latches SUXS!
[15:56:36] <Jymmm> Crom: how so?
[15:57:02] <Crom> the latches do not prevent side spread
[15:57:18] <Jymmm> Crom: ah, comapared to ???
[15:57:38] <Crom> Mighty Mover
[15:57:52] <JT-Shop> _methods, I think gun drills are designed to get the chips out without clogging
[15:58:07] <Crom> pad lock haps and screw down latches
[15:58:14] <Crom> hasps
[15:58:15] <roycroft> and for metal that might be the case, jt-shop
[15:58:24] <roycroft> wood chips tend to behave differently than metal chips
[15:58:27] <Jymmm> Crom: is that like mighty mouse?
[15:58:41] <roycroft> here i come to save the day!
[15:59:38] <Crom> new name for Dico trailers. Universal trailers in Riverside,ca is a bunch of the Korean crew that took off and started thier own trailer company
[16:00:01] <MattyMatt> I thought guns were pored and rifled with a drill that was as much a shaper as a drill. single point. I got that off a history program tho. pre steam
[16:00:10] <Jymmm> http://www.mightymovertrailers.com/index2.php?page=prolite
[16:00:15] <Crom> that look latch can be modded to work better
[16:00:20] <Jymmm> Crom: thos ook like the same latches to me
[16:00:45] <roycroft> rifling is a separate step from boring
[16:01:03] * JT-Shop thinks a .44 to the windoze 7 will solve the driver problem
[16:01:03] <roycroft> and rifling is done with a single point tool
[16:01:33] <Jymmm> JT-Shop: excluding the fondation, how much did it cost you to build your add on workshop?
[16:01:34] <roycroft> i don't know much about guns, but i do know that rifling is a spiral groove put into a gun bore to help guide the bullet straight
[16:01:41] <MattyMatt> or formed with a button
[16:02:26] <MattyMatt> hard steel forming tool that's pulled through. you need a hole to start with there tho
[16:03:43] <Crom> Look has the long pipe which flexs: Mighty mover has a really short fulcrum clap as in http://www.mightymovertrailers.com/pictures/proii/Pro%20II%201.jpg
[16:03:50] <Crom> clamp
[16:05:18] <Rab> FinboySlick, I've used black ABS bar stock from McMaster-Carr, and it was very nice to work with.
[16:05:33] <Crom> The Look one you end up using a ratchet strap to bend the pipe back into place
[16:05:41] <FinboySlick> Rab: They hate Canada though.
[16:06:18] <Rab> FinboySlick, sorry.
[16:06:29] <Tom_itx> JT-Shop, if the .44 doesn't work you can always drag out the cannon
[16:06:41] <Crom> the older Dico's had 5/16" screw stud and you spun on a lever handle, those never came loose
[16:07:00] <Tom_itx> Computer_barf you can machine HDPE you just need sharp tools
[16:07:13] <JT-Shop> yea, I know I downloaded the driver the last time
[16:07:14] <FinboySlick> Rab: I should be fine sourcing the plastic. It's just the crimping tool that I'd like to find.
[16:07:22] <JT-Shop> Jymmm, I don't have a clue
[16:07:23] <roycroft> for the boring, mattymatt?
[16:07:25] <Crom> and a hasp for a padlock through the side angle of the door
[16:07:34] <Tom_itx> i reached my goal on the control now what?
[16:07:41] <MattyMatt> Outer 0.1" Housing Female, either pololu crimper would do
[16:07:41] <FinboySlick> 200 of those tiny connectors with pliers is not worth the effort.
[16:07:42] <Tom_itx> take it apart again?
[16:07:52] <Jymmm> JT-Shop: $5K? $10K? $20K ?
[16:07:55] <Tom_itx> i could swap a couple boards out...
[16:07:56] <Rab> Crom, that's a serial eeprom. The ATMLU part isn't actually the part number. Can you read the bottom line on the part? I can't quite make it out.
[16:08:02] <Crom> Tom_itx, 44Spl or 44mag? I prefer 44spl which is what I have
[16:08:18] <Tom_itx> either would fit the bill
[16:08:20] <Crom> Z7F6589H
[16:08:51] <MattyMatt> I'm still intending to make a pair of dies for the crimper I have, that does 4x 0.1" all in one go
[16:09:14] <Rab> Crom, sorry, I might have spoken too soon...no idea.
[16:09:16] <MattyMatt> in line and same length, contacts and strain relief all done
[16:12:34] <MattyMatt> 3/4" x 3/8" tool steel I need. ripping a 3/4" lathe blank up the middle would be the cheapest and least fun way to obtain that
[16:12:37] <Rab> Crom, this page does suggest that it's a serial eeprom, Atmel AT24C512-10PU-2.7: http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:rdlfnNkTN-QJ:hi.baidu.com/atmel_atmel/item/a9b3b60e9e06f135a2332a79+&cd=6&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=us
[16:12:38] <Crom> other chip is a
[16:12:55] <Rab> Datasheet: http://www.atmel.com/Images/doc1116.pdf
[16:13:06] <Crom> http://itslinux.org/cnc/atmlu726/CD745.PNG
[16:13:41] <Jymmm> Crom: I don't know if I missed it, but I didn't see any difference in the latches.
[16:14:17] <JT-Shop> Jymmm, I didn't add it up
[16:14:43] <JT-Shop> I have all the recipes if you want to come by and add them up
[16:15:03] <Jymmm> JT-Shop: more than $20K ?
[16:15:11] <Crom> on the Look see the hinge about even with the marker lights
[16:15:26] <Jymmm> yeah
[16:15:46] <Crom> then you can follow the pipe up to the top hinge, in the center is the latch handle
[16:15:48] <Rab> Crom, that's a Microchip PIC16C745: http://www.microchip.com/wwwproducts/Devices.aspx?product=PIC16C745
[16:16:02] <JT-Shop> don't know Jymmm
[16:16:12] <Crom> so the other chip is probably a serial rom
[16:16:15] <Jymmm> Crom: right.
[16:16:21] <Jymmm> JT-Shop: k
[16:16:49] <JT-Shop> I built it in 2012
[16:17:03] <Jymmm> Crom: I still dont see/understand what you are seeing
[16:17:32] <Crom> the pipe is the part that bends, and it's the part that 'clamps' the ramp shut. with the handle in the middle and the hinges out at the ends, it flexs like no ones business
[16:17:44] <Rab> Crom, it is. It probably contains firmware for the PIC.
[16:17:58] <JT-Shop> Santa Claus brought me the concrete for X-Mass 2011
[16:18:17] <Tom_itx> what size is it?
[16:18:54] <Jymmm> Crom: How is that any diff than this? http://imgur.com/8dk6E1B
[16:19:01] <Crom> on the one trailer we had with the look type latches, we welded a bead along the side so the pipe would tend to grip the door and not let it spread
[16:19:37] <Rab> FinboySlick, those Pololu crimpers look like they would probably work. I can't offer any guarantees, of course.
[16:20:05] <Crom> the mighty mover already has the ridge to aid in preventing the trailer side spread
[16:20:34] <Crom> and it also helps keep racking (twisting) of the body
[16:20:35] <Jymmm> Crom: When you say "side spread", you mean the fixed walls bowing out?
[16:20:40] <Crom> yes
[16:20:46] <Jymmm> k
[16:21:47] <Jymmm> Crom: I wish I could see a pic of the latches you're taking about, and not a drawing
[16:21:51] <Crom> the bowing of the side <> and the rack // really tear up the trailer
[16:22:54] <Jymmm> Crom: I totally understand the <> and //, just not how the latch plays into that. I'm expecting the dooor itself to help prevent //
[16:23:17] <Crom> http://www.mightymovertrailers.com/pictures/proii/Pro%20II%20V-Nose%207.jpg
[16:23:21] <Jymmm> assuming a receseed dor
[16:23:30] <JT-Shop> Tom_itx, me?
[16:23:40] <Tom_itx> yup u
[16:23:57] * JT-Shop looks for a tape measure
[16:23:58] <Jymmm> Crom: hard to tell, is that a full length latch?
[16:24:16] <Tom_itx> count sheets of sheetrock
[16:24:29] * JT-Shop counts the sheets of OSB
[16:24:39] <JT-Shop> 24' x 24'
[16:24:50] <Tom_itx> same as my garage
[16:25:03] <Jymmm> Floor tiles work good for that too
[16:25:04] <Tom_itx> only i added a 'storage' to half
[16:25:17] <Tom_itx> instead of a separate shed for the mower etc
[16:25:19] <Crom> doesn't need to be, it just needs to clamp the door/ramp tight to the body to stop the movement, which the look latch has problems doing since it can flex so much
[16:25:24] <Tom_itx> i figured it was more secure that way
[16:25:33] <JT-Shop> the garage side is 20 x 30 I think
[16:25:56] <Tom_itx> i bet back then mine was under 5k cost
[16:25:59] <Jymmm> Crom: Oh, not rigid enough is what you're saying? Acting more like spring tension?
[16:26:35] <JT-Shop> about 2000 sq ft total both sides and I can't find the floor
[16:27:16] <Tom_itx> that's more than 24 sq
[16:28:14] <Tom_itx> i think my bud's first shop was 50 x 60
[16:28:43] <Tom_itx> now he keeps his racecar in it with one cnc, manual lathe, bridgeport and a few odds n ends
[16:30:15] <Crom> yeah
[16:30:42] <JT-Shop> a bit over 2k for soffit facia and shingles
[16:30:43] <Crom> and there is nothing holding the side to keep it from bowing
[16:34:15] <FinboySlick> Rab: Thanks a lot for the help. I'll be back later tonight.
[16:53:50] <Jymmm> Crom: I'm trying to find aftermarket/replacement latche pics now
[16:55:02] <Jymmm> Crom: http://www.ebay.com/itm/NEW-36-CAM-BAR-enclosed-cargo-trailer-swing-hinge-door-lock-handle-latch-shed/301517993195
[16:57:54] <Jymmm> FWIW disc padlocks are super easy to pick
[17:00:02] <furrywolf> I am coming to the conclusion these sintered bronze bushings are compressed to their final shape, and not meant to be machined.
[17:03:51] <SpeedEvil> furrywolf: :/
[17:04:00] <SpeedEvil> What're you trying to fix?
[17:04:54] <JT-Shop> you should be able to machine them if you can hold them without crushing them
[17:10:21] <JT-Shop> damn I lost the tape measure again
[17:10:36] <furrywolf> SpeedEvil: a dewalt screw gun
[17:11:18] <furrywolf> it has a bushing around part of the clutch mechanism. original was cast iron... about 3/4s of which I managed to extract.
[17:11:23] <SpeedEvil> ah
[17:12:00] <furrywolf> the sintered bronze crumbles stupidly easily, and eats bits.
[17:12:17] <SpeedEvil> Have you considered abrasives?
[17:12:46] <furrywolf> I've considered being very abrasive to the person at dewalt who decided to only sell an entire clutch assembley instead of individual parts.
[17:13:06] <Jymmm> electro etching
[17:13:51] <furrywolf> http://fw.bushytails.net/dewaltbushing01.jpg
[17:14:28] <Deejay> gn8
[17:14:41] <JT-Shop> what are you trying to do to the bushing and how?
[17:16:03] <furrywolf> the bushing is around .920 ID, 1.160 OD, .080 thick. doesn't resemble anything remotely standard. making a .750 ID, 1.250 OD, .125 thick bronze bushing from the hardware store fit.
[17:16:38] <furrywolf> that is, turning three sides of it.
[17:17:28] <furrywolf> http://fw.bushytails.net/dewaltbushing02.jpg only took TWO DAYS!
[17:18:32] <JT-Shop> yea that could be fun to make
[17:18:53] <JT-Shop> on a sherline no less
[17:19:30] <furrywolf> you don't like my sherline? :P
[17:19:45] <JT-Shop> I didn't say that...
[17:20:03] <JT-Shop> just maybe a bit more challenging to make a part like that on one
[17:20:09] <furrywolf> the material likes to smear instead of cut, it crumbles instead of cuts, it cracks if you apply any force to it, and the final part is so thin...
[17:20:19] <furrywolf> http://fw.bushytails.net/dewaltbushing03.jpg
[17:20:40] <JT-Shop> yea, you need dead sharp tools and rigid setup
[17:20:47] <furrywolf> this bronze is by far the hardest material to machine that I've ever worked with.
[17:21:34] <furrywolf> hardest as in difficulty, not as in rockwell. lol
[17:23:13] <SpeedEvil> furrywolf: I would try first making it to outer size, then push this into a reasonably tight fitting hole, and only then machine the other sides
[17:23:16] <furrywolf> it also doesn't help that the previous owner machined off 3/8" of the jaws on the chuck. presumably a "whoops!" moment. this means I can't chuck anything from the inside, only the outside.
[17:24:03] <JT-Shop> opps
[17:24:08] <SpeedEvil> Actually, I'd look at it depressed I still have no lathe
[17:24:09] <furrywolf> SpeedEvil: in order to do the OD, I'd have to chuck it from the inside, which I can't do with my chuck, so I'd have to make a fixture...
[17:24:26] <SpeedEvil> yes, I mean a fixture
[17:24:42] <furrywolf> also, in order to turn either the inside or the outside, with it just in the chuck, you'd have to cut flush to the chuck.
[17:25:28] <Tom_itx> furrywolf, finally got it ehh?
[17:25:31] <SpeedEvil> I was assuming making a collet
[17:25:42] <furrywolf> my procedure was to chuck it (by the outside, since that's all my chuck can do) and turn face it first, from the inside to a hair's width before the outside, to get the desired thickness. this leaves a lip of the original .125 thickness with the rest of the part the desired .080 thickness.
[17:26:20] <furrywolf> then I flipped it over, and turned the ID to size. the lip around the outside spaced it away from the chuck, letting me cut the inside without hitting the chuck.
[17:27:07] <furrywolf> once the ID was to size, I put it on the clutch part from the driver, with a bolt through it, and a modified washer to clamp it. then I chucked up the clutch part, and turned the OD.
[17:27:15] <furrywolf> then I deburred what I could with the lathe, and the rest with a file, since it left a substantial bur after every cut.
[17:27:57] <furrywolf> I could have built a fixture, but letting dewalt build one is even easier. :)
[17:29:02] <furrywolf> Tom_itx: only took two days.
[17:29:49] <furrywolf> I really, really hate this bronze. I have never machined anything nearly as fucking annoying.
[17:31:12] <furrywolf> it's like trying to machine a mix of sand and feta cheese.
[17:31:44] <SpeedEvil> Use nice ironwood boiled in oil.
[17:32:00] <furrywolf> it looks solid, but crumbles as soon as you touch it... and still manages to chew up cutters.
[17:32:12] <furrywolf> I had to resharpen my drill bit cutter four times to turn that bushing.
[17:38:13] <furrywolf> it's much easier to machine a very hard material than something that just crumbles like this stuff does.
[17:41:48] <Jymmm> Crom: Is this what you were saying is GOOD or BAD ? http://randjtrailers.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/12/DSCN1957.jpg
[17:43:08] <Jymmm> I'm thinking bad
[17:50:21] <Crom> yep bad
[17:52:28] <furrywolf> hrmm, I don't get it. now that I have a bushing, I'm trying to figure out exactly what it does... and it seems like it disables the torque clutch? wtf?
[17:52:31] <Crom> if you move the handles to the top, it would be OK, if you did that and added 2 more handles at the bottom as well it would be better. Adding a ridge, so the pipe clamps better and pulls the sides towards the door would be best.
[17:56:19] <furrywolf> googling shows they sold some models with a "versaclutch" feature... I think this bushing's job is to jam the cluch for non-versaclutch models. lol
[17:57:13] <furrywolf> it goes where a spring and adjuster would be, and prevents the clutch from ever disengaging.
[17:57:25] <furrywolf> ... meaning I could have fixed it just as well by tacking the two clutch halves together.
[17:57:34] <SpeedEvil> hah
[17:57:39] <SpeedEvil> BTDT
[17:57:46] <furrywolf> ?
[17:57:53] <SpeedEvil> tear into a repair job only to find out ages in that it's mostly pointless.
[17:58:03] <furrywolf> lol
[17:58:27] <SpeedEvil> At least you learned about machining bushings.
[17:58:42] <furrywolf> yes. next time, don't.
[17:58:56] <SpeedEvil> Cast-in place babbit instead
[17:59:05] <furrywolf> I turned some of these same bushings a while ago, but I didn't do nearly as much to them, and didn't notice how annoying it was.
[17:59:13] * SpeedEvil shivers.
[17:59:34] <SpeedEvil> I just realised that some of the plastic tool bodies have a temperature range you could directly pour babbit into - just about
[17:59:42] <furrywolf> I replaced the worn-out plastic bushings in my subaru's shift linkage with bronze ones. now it shifts nice and tight, instead of floppy shifter.
[17:59:49] <SpeedEvil> Is that a terrible idea, or a terribly awesome idea?
[18:01:14] <Crom> using plaster, make a negative of the body, then make a silicon positive, then pour babbit into the silicon postive
[18:01:30] <furrywolf> since the transmission is so far forwards on a subaru, they have a linkage with a total of six bushings in it to link the shifter to the transmission. they're a plastic insert in a rubber bushing on a steel shaft. when the plastic inserts start to wear (30 years and 300,000 miles will do that), the shifter gets a little floppy. too bad you can't buy new inserts... so I used bronze, and now it's even tighter than factory. :P
[18:01:33] <SpeedEvil> No, I mean actually pouring directly into the plastic body
[18:01:43] <SpeedEvil> - some powertool bodies are OK at ~200C
[18:01:56] <Crom> you used "just baout"
[18:02:00] <Crom> you used "just about"
[18:02:04] <furrywolf> why don't you do it and report back to us? :P
[18:03:45] <furrywolf> hrmm, I think dewalt drill ratings are a lot like their air compressor ratings. this screwdriver claims to draw 6.3A. I know what a motor that can dissipate 750W looks like, and this is not it.
[18:04:09] <SpeedEvil> Stall torque
[18:04:42] <furrywolf> hp = no-load rpm * locked-rotor torque, right? :)
[18:05:23] <SpeedEvil> No.
[18:05:55] <SpeedEvil> It's no-load RPM * current just after you reverse it going flat out.
[18:06:15] <SpeedEvil> torque
[18:07:32] <SpeedEvil> Gah. Power meter tells me that I've left the 400W lights on in the garage, and my hot water heater reset switch has tripped again and I need to go into the attic to fix.
[18:07:42] <SpeedEvil> I shall respond by going to sleep.
[18:08:39] <Jymmm> SpeedEvil: what setup for monitoring?
[18:08:43] <Jymmm> SpeedEvil: HW wise
[18:09:09] <SpeedEvil> http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Current-Cost-Black-EnviR-Energy-Electricity-Saving-Monitor-/181725416393?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_3&hash=item2a4fadcbc9
[18:09:35] <SpeedEvil> current cost are awesome
[18:09:37] <malcom2073> Nice, been looking for a fairly cheap USB->PC connection one that has a clamp-on
[18:09:37] <SpeedEvil> http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Current-Cost-Analogue-Development-Board-/181439758706?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_3&hash=item2a3ea70172
[18:10:06] <SpeedEvil> They almost hit 100% awesome, but failed.
[18:10:18] <SpeedEvil> The PSU they supply for the above unit is AC.
[18:10:22] <Jymmm> SpeedEvil: you have ltipe of those setup?
[18:10:25] <Jymmm> multiple
[18:10:31] <SpeedEvil> But it is not used for phase correction.
[18:10:35] <SpeedEvil> Jymmm: ?
[18:10:42] <SpeedEvil> No, just one.
[18:10:46] <malcom2073> Nice, $150 for the USA lol
[18:10:56] <Jymmm> SpeedEvil: one for 400W garage lights, one for water heater,
[18:11:20] <SpeedEvil> Jymmm: Because my idle load is sitting not at 3140W or so as it should be if my water heater is, but 600W or so
[18:11:24] <SpeedEvil> is on
[18:11:30] <SpeedEvil> and I went out today into the garage
[18:11:50] <Jymmm> SpeedEvil: Oh, so you are not monitoring individual circuits
[18:12:21] <Jymmm> SpeedEvil: You have this connected to your mains?
[18:12:31] <SpeedEvil> yes
[18:12:32] <Jymmm> at the panel
[18:12:48] <Jymmm> or on an individual branch
[18:12:58] <SpeedEvil> The graph every 6 seconds mean you can detect lots of things by their signature.
[18:13:13] <SpeedEvil> For example, the fridge/freezers are quite obvious.
[18:13:23] <Jymmm> SpeedEvil: Sure, I get that now. Thought it was per circuit thing
[18:13:35] <SpeedEvil> ~100W or so load, with a ~200W spike at the start tailing off to ~80 before shutting off
[18:14:06] <SpeedEvil> Similarly kettle - +2200W, followed not more than 5 minutes or so later by -2200W
[18:14:54] <Jymmm> I guess I could use the smater metr readings. wonder if the raw data is available
[18:15:27] <malcom2073> I've been trying to find cheap split-core DC output current transformers for just that
[18:15:40] <Jymmm> malcom2073: DC ?
[18:15:49] <malcom2073> Jymmm: To avoid having to build my own opamp circuit
[18:15:56] <Jymmm> malcom2073: ah, heh
[18:16:08] <malcom2073> I'm not great with hardware :)
[18:16:26] <malcom2073> Gimme 0-5vdc, or 0-10vdc and I'm golden heh
[18:16:52] <Jymmm> adapt pre built stuff
[18:17:49] <malcom2073> I've been keeping an eye out, it'sall still fairly high priced, that CurrentCost one is nice, but not available easily in the US
[18:18:18] <Jymmm> SpeedEvil: I'm not udnerstanding how that lil pickkup coil can connecto to a mains leg, or handle 10KW readings
[18:21:15] <Jymmm> malcom2073: http://efergy.com/us/products/energy-gateways
[18:21:54] <SpeedEvil> Jymmm: It's a currrent transformer.
[18:22:11] <SpeedEvil> The half turn made by the single wire induces current in the rest of the wires
[18:22:15] <malcom2073> Jymmm: Yeah, it's probably be cheaper for me to buy a book on electronics for that price, then use a proper $5 sensor like they do heh
[18:22:31] <Jymmm> SpeedEvil: I'm aware. But didn't realize this was installed *IN* your panel.
[18:22:56] <SpeedEvil> It's designed to be 'installed' in the lightest sense.
[18:23:26] <SpeedEvil> you stick the self-adhesive velcro patch to something, and put the transmitter on it, then clamp the clamp round an incoming wire.
[18:23:38] <Jymmm> SpeedEvil: I just wouldn't expect a "consumer" product to be installed within inches of an exposed 100A potential is all
[18:25:49] <SpeedEvil> It should all be touch-safe in principle.
[18:27:21] <Jymmm> malcom2073: HERE YA GO... http://openenergymonitor.org/emon/Modules
[18:28:28] <Jymmm> http://shop.openenergymonitor.com/100a-max-clip-on-current-sensor-ct/
[18:28:58] <malcom2073> Those are the same sensors you can buy on ebay for $5, but they're still AC otuput
[18:29:14] <malcom2073> Suppose I could design a board based on their design, but that's kinda the point :P
[18:29:27] <Jymmm> malcom2073: arduino nano
[18:29:51] <malcom2073> Jymmm: I mean converting the AC signal to a DC voltage I can read to figure current
[18:30:05] <Jymmm> malcom2073: arduino nano
[18:31:52] <Jymmm> malcom2073: http://openenergymonitor.org/emon/buildingblocks/ct-sensors-interface
[18:32:01] <malcom2073> huh
[18:32:10] <malcom2073> Did not know you could do that safely without frying a pin, nice
[18:32:38] <malcom2073> Ahh, they break out the ciruit for it. Yeah see that's what I couldn't find
[18:32:44] <Jymmm> nano's are only $3 USD anyway, so who cares =)
[18:32:47] <malcom2073> any decent values for any particular current sensor
[18:32:58] <SpeedEvil> esp8266 may be a better choice
[18:33:17] <malcom2073> Eg: What burden resistor, voltage divider, and capacitor choices do you choose for XYZ sensor, the sparkfun comments on their sensor were vauge at best heh
[18:33:41] <malcom2073> Cool that they break it out
[18:33:43] <Jymmm> SpeedEvil: esp8266 AND arduino?
[18:33:58] <malcom2073> I'd really much rather pay $20 for a sensor that does what I need, rather than $5 for a sensor and spend a couple hours getting it put together :-P
[18:34:05] <SpeedEvil> Jymmm: no
[18:34:31] <Jymmm> SpeedEvil: programmed in what?
[18:34:55] <SpeedEvil> Jymmm: you can program it in Lua, I think there is a micropython port, or C
[18:35:31] <Jymmm> SpeedEvil: Yeah, I how no plans to program c =)
[18:35:38] <Jymmm> have*
[18:35:54] <malcom2073> I can program in C, and that would be a really good use of an 8266
[18:36:06] <Jymmm> SpeedEvil: arduino sketch is about as close as I get. I think, maybe, I don't know
[18:36:21] <Jymmm> SpeedEvil: I LUST those wifi modules though
[18:37:03] <SpeedEvil> Lua is really nothard
[18:37:11] <SpeedEvil> also #esp8266
[18:37:21] <Jymmm> oh, very #cool
[18:37:54] <Jymmm> SpeedEvil: do you know if they have a temp sensor built in?
[18:38:45] <SpeedEvil> I don't think so
[18:38:56] <Jymmm> SpeedEvil: I was thinking iface with a 3.3v nano, and use it's VR
[18:39:13] <Jymmm> I'm lazy that way =)
[18:41:05] <Jymmm> SpeedEvil: I've never even seen lua
[18:41:38] <Jymmm> http://www.instructables.com/id/Using-the-ESP8266-module/
[18:41:42] <Jymmm> BASIC =)
[18:43:12] <_methods> hooray for harbor freight gear puller set
[18:43:57] <Jymmm> _methods: auro parts store?
[18:44:28] <_methods> no it worked
[18:44:33] <Jymmm> lol
[18:44:38] <_methods> i'm saying +1 for bottom of the harbor freight
[18:44:48] <Jymmm> =)
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[18:48:43] <Computer_barf> paypal got alot of flack lately for changes to their user agreement where there was wording that suggested they would hold the intellectual property of the goods that are sold through their services
[18:49:15] <Rab> Haha, what?
[18:52:59] <furrywolf> http://humboldt.craigslist.org/tls/5009689366.html ah, if I had room...
[18:54:09] <Crom> furrywolf, wooo that is sweet!
[18:58:29] <SpeedEvil> nice
[19:09:37] <Jymmm> SpeedEvil: Is the transmitter powered from the current sensors too?
[19:14:24] <SpeedEvil> No.
[19:14:32] <SpeedEvil> A couple of alkaline D cells
[19:14:40] <SpeedEvil> Or maybe lithium-iron, I haven't checked
[19:14:47] <SpeedEvil> I suspect alkaline
[19:15:55] <Jymmm> Seems silly to add battereis to a 100A panel =)
[19:16:24] <SpeedEvil> yes, in principle, but there is 'never' a socket there in the UK
[19:16:39] <SpeedEvil> And the battery can make it go for ~10 years
[19:17:14] <Jymmm> "Oh my panel meter needs new battereis"
[19:17:52] <Jymmm> There is a votlage output taps too per the datasheet
[19:28:40] <Jymmm> SpeedEvil: It looks like they use zeners for current sense, and a resistor for voltage sense. two different products. I suppose you could add your own resistor externally
[19:29:36] <SpeedEvil> Not following
[19:30:15] <Jymmm> SCT-013 datasheet shows pinout
[19:30:59] <SpeedEvil> err - what?
[19:31:53] <Jymmm> SpeedEvil: http://www.seeedstudio.com/depot/images/product/2009511142810295.gif
[19:32:22] <SpeedEvil> Err - no.
[19:32:29] <Jymmm> no what?
[19:32:33] <SpeedEvil> the zener is to prevent overvoltage
[19:32:47] <SpeedEvil> it's always used in linear mode with the output at a small AC voltage
[19:32:51] <Jymmm> Look at the part numbers
[19:33:21] <renesis> ew miniplug
[19:33:24] <renesis> those bastards
[19:33:47] <SpeedEvil> yes - small AC voltage across a current sensing resistor - either outside or inside
[19:34:30] <SpeedEvil> The zener is there to prevent large overvoltages which may cause damage if not connected to an appropriate load resistor
[19:35:05] <Jymmm> so you're saying there are two zeners AND a resistor internally?
[19:36:11] <SpeedEvil> One sort has two zeners, one sort has one resistor
[19:36:52] <Jymmm> Right
[19:37:48] <SpeedEvil> You use the sort with zeners with a small resistor so as to develop ~1V across it at max reading
[19:38:12] <Jymmm> if you add two pair of coils, it could be self powered
[19:38:35] <Jymmm> well, 2.1V
[19:38:53] <SpeedEvil> That's 2.1V at maximum output.
[19:39:05] <Jymmm> and use a step up module to get 3.3v
[19:39:54] <SpeedEvil> not really.
[19:40:03] <SpeedEvil> you ahve a whole 33mW@100A input
[19:40:30] <SpeedEvil> half that for the voltage mode - assuming it's the same
[19:40:45] <Jymmm> It's $3, who cares if it's not isolated?
[19:40:48] <SpeedEvil> And @10A, 3.3mW
[19:40:51] <SpeedEvil> It's isolated.
[19:41:02] <Jymmm> your right, it is
[19:41:22] <Jymmm> so $1 for the step up and $2 for the wifi
[19:41:59] <Jymmm> plus diode bridge for havewave
[19:42:02] <Jymmm> half wave
[19:43:50] <SpeedEvil> http://in1.ccio.co/wC/IF/SF/165507355026349973Pw1dBVGgc.jpg
[20:03:39] <Jymmm> cute
[20:15:37] <Tom_itx> pcw_home on the 7i47s i must have a 10v source to connect to the analog+ - pins in order to get a 0-10v out on the pin correct?
[20:18:14] <Tom_itx> it would have been nice for a 10v reference on the board with an option to enable it since alot of spindles use 10v
[20:19:44] <Tom_itx> ok so i may make a r divider off the 15v supply. how much current would be required for the reference and drive signal?
[20:22:02] <Tom_itx> i might be able to use the 15v reg and regulate it down to 10v since all it powers is the board i will be eliminating using the 7i47s
[20:23:43] <furrywolf> 5v zener. :P
[20:24:06] <Tom_itx> it's got a pot for adjustment
[20:24:32] <Tom_itx> i set it and glued it so it wouldn't change due to vibration
[20:35:42] <s1dev> anyone looked at EDM?
[20:40:08] <furrywolf> define "looked at"
[20:40:26] <furrywolf> at least a couple people here have edm machines in their shop
[20:40:38] <Tom_itx> http://www.linuxcnc.org/index.php/english/forum/10-advanced-configuration/13232-looking-to-wire-edm-any-current-users
[20:40:46] <Tom_itx> thread on it
[20:41:14] <s1dev> I'm trying to figure out how difficult the control would be
[20:46:32] <Tom_itx> no idea
[20:47:03] <Tom_itx> the one i saw at stuart's shop had separate drives on the top and bottom for the wire
[20:47:26] <Tom_itx> or were you not talking about wedm
[20:48:26] <s1dev> I havevn't done anything with EDM, I need to drill holes in 4 axes
[20:52:15] <PetefromTn_> Evening folks! ;)
[20:54:54] <Tom_itx> http://timeguy.com/cradek/emc/edm
[20:55:03] <Tom_itx> s1dev, maybe cradek is
[20:55:09] <Tom_itx> PetefromTn_
[20:55:18] <Tom_itx> got ridid tapping working
[20:56:21] <PetefromTn_> Hey Tom yeah man I have had Rigid tapping working for awhile now
[20:57:04] <Tom_itx> i got mine goin last night
[20:57:19] <Tom_itx> on the sherline
[20:57:21] <PetefromTn_> have a customers project I am prototyping right now that will be probably using it a good bit LOL.
[20:57:28] <PetefromTn_> Oh yeah no kidding... Wow.
[20:57:42] <PetefromTn_> What did you do to make it work?
[20:57:51] <Tom_itx> all sorts of stuff
[20:58:06] <Tom_itx> and i'm fixin to change it i think
[20:58:23] <Tom_itx> i'm using that board zeeshan|2 sent me for the spindle control
[20:58:28] <PetefromTn_> what size tap can you run?
[20:58:37] <Tom_itx> added some relays for rev etc
[20:58:42] <Tom_itx> i dunno
[20:59:06] <Tom_itx> i've been bench testing the code for now but it's working
[20:59:17] <Tom_itx> also modded my cad cam for a rigid tap cycle
[20:59:25] <PetefromTn_> Oh so you have it reversing and responding to code then.
[20:59:31] <Tom_itx> yup
[21:00:08] <Tom_itx> i put ms delays in the code so the relays switch under little or no load
[21:00:16] <furrywolf> my sherline only goes one direction, and has no software spindle control. heh.
[21:00:31] <Tom_itx> the drive has an inhibit so i pulse that and switch the relays during the inhibit signal
[21:00:34] <furrywolf> if I had the 5" Y version, I might be tempted to improve it, but with only 3" Y travel, my sherline is remarkably useless.
[21:00:49] <Tom_itx> furrywolf i'm using the original drive control
[21:01:38] * furrywolf sticks an r/c servo to the panel with a little timing belt, and sets linuxcnc's spindle pwm to look like servo pulses
[21:03:42] <Tom_itx> furrywolf you can get a driver that has reverse but i didn't wanna buy it
[21:03:51] <Tom_itx> so i modded mine and it seems to work fine
[21:04:10] <Tom_itx> mostly code mods and a couple relays
[21:04:31] <Tom_itx> i did have to get an isolation board since the GND on the driver board floats
[21:05:54] <furrywolf> I find my sherline too small for me to want to add features to it... the 3" Y travel really pisses me off.
[21:06:34] <Tom_itx> i'm doing it mostly for the coversion experience
[21:07:05] <Tom_itx> http://tom-itx.no-ip.biz:81/~webpage/cnc/spindle_drive/
[21:07:12] <Tom_itx> those are the boards i've used
[21:07:27] <Tom_itx> i think my stock control is the KBIC
[21:07:35] <Tom_itx> the KBIS is the isolation board
[21:07:36] <furrywolf> boards sounds complicated. I like me idea of just sticking a servo on the speed pot. :P
[21:07:48] <Tom_itx> it's pretty simple really
[21:07:59] <Tom_itx> no more complicated than wiring a vfd
[21:08:24] <Tom_itx> just some of the 'vfd' part was done in linuxcnc
[21:09:17] <Tom_itx> zeeshan|2 sent me the C6 board but i may eliminate that with the 7i47s
[21:10:47] <furrywolf> I'm going to put all my energy into the shoptask for a while.
[21:10:55] <Tom_itx> i think others have tried to use that board with little success
[21:11:07] <Tom_itx> but it does work ok
[21:11:58] <furrywolf> right now my sherline uses flashcut, which is crap and evil, but I'm not going to spend the money converting it to linuxcnc... and still only have 3" of Y travel.
[21:12:09] <PetefromTn_> honestly I used the CNC4PC C11G board on my RF45 build and from what I understand the board you have was basically built into that board electronically speaking.
[21:12:59] <Tom_itx> furrywolf i built my control strong enough to expand the mill
[21:13:10] <Tom_itx> that's why it's so big compared to the mill
[21:13:43] <Tom_itx> PetefromTn_ yeah the C6 didn't really support reverse
[21:14:02] <Tom_itx> nor did my driver
[21:14:51] <PetefromTn_> really? My machine did but honestly I don't remember how it was wired. I believe I used the solid state relays on the board to switch reverse.
[21:15:37] <furrywolf> "For safety, nail guns are designed to be used with the muzzle touching the target. Unless specifically modified for the purpose, they are not effective as projectile weapons." lol. the first test of any new nailgun purchase is to aim it at someone far away and see how hard it hits it. "not effective" my ass.
[21:15:38] <Tom_itx> the board has relays on it but i don't think it was really meant to support reverse
[21:16:09] <furrywolf> s/someone/something
[21:18:33] <furrywolf> if I add reverse to my sherline, it'll be a simple mechanical relay.
[21:18:44] <Tom_itx> i ended up adding my ssr i originally had been using for on/off back to the drive to shut it down on an M5
[21:19:33] <PetefromTn_> my Teco VFD I used just used a logic signal for reverse as I recall.. but don't remember for sure. It was just 0-10v and reversing.
[21:19:50] <Tom_itx> yeah they make it simple
[21:20:02] <Tom_itx> i didn't wanna buy a new driver
[21:20:14] <Tom_itx> i could have gotten one with reverse
[21:22:34] <Tom_itx> next is to add back the 7i47s instead of the 7i47
[21:22:54] <Tom_itx> i got a couple relays off ebay to use when i switch to that since they're built on the C6 boarde
[21:34:54] <Tom_itx> PetefromTn_ any progress on the tool changer?
[21:37:23] <PetefromTn_> Why hell no ;)
[21:37:47] <PetefromTn_> Been busy with other things unfortunately.
[21:38:22] <PetefromTn_> I have several CNC jobs going on for customers right now and doing prototyping for one or two more... Finally getting some work in here.
[21:38:23] <Tom_itx> same here
[21:38:37] <Tom_itx> only last couple days have i been able to mess with the mill at all
[21:39:10] <Tom_itx> all the more reason to get it working!
[21:39:34] <PetefromTn_> This weekend we FINALLY managed to put the hand glazed finish on our wall cabinets and got them installed in the kitchen.
[21:40:08] <PetefromTn_> Now all I have to do is make all the doors and drawer fronts and finish them and it will FINALLY be done.
[21:40:28] <PetefromTn_> Probably gonna make some nice raised panels on the shaper for it.
[21:42:32] <PetefromTn_> Yeah I agree I NEED to get it working so I can walk away during some of these small production runs I am doing lately.
[22:14:23] <furrywolf> going through a pile of yard sale tools... some wrenches I've not seen before. Boker? adjustable wrench, seems of good quality. Barcalo of Buffalo (rare, but I think I have one other), "MF" (looks like Proto?), and KKK, a brand named without concern to any connotations the name may have...
[22:15:51] * furrywolf bets archivist has all of these
[22:34:35] <furrywolf> wirdey? wildey?
[22:34:59] <furrywolf> wildes?
[22:36:39] * furrywolf pokes archivist
[22:37:44] <furrywolf> I can't find anything on these, in any way I can think I'm mis-reading the name.
[22:45:00] <furrywolf> I think it's wirde kcma or wilde kcma...
[22:47:21] <renesis> wtf kkk brand tools
[22:47:29] <renesis> is it made in china?
[22:47:45] <furrywolf> Japan
[22:47:56] <furrywolf> seems to be high-quality japan, not cheapo
[22:48:16] <furrywolf> http://fw.bushytails.net/mysterypliers01-small.jpg http://fw.bushytails.net/mysterypliers01.jpg what do you read that as?
[22:49:19] <renesis> those are the same lionk
[22:49:24] <renesis> its kind of ambiguous
[22:49:45] <renesis> Wiedy or Wiede
[22:49:48] <furrywolf> except one's scaled down to about quarter size, which makes it much easier to read.
[22:50:29] <renesis> and KCMA
[22:50:45] <furrywolf> the 3rd and 5th are not the same, so not wiede
[22:51:18] <renesis> dunno the 5th just looks smaller, its not like its typeset
[22:52:05] <renesis> okay Wildy Wilde Wiedy Wiede
[22:52:11] <furrywolf> I'd bet the master was very carefully engraved
[22:52:40] <pcw_home> Tom_itx: yes the 7I47S needs a 10V (or 5 or 15V) supply
[22:52:46] <furrywolf> I think I've tried all of those, with zero results. heh.
[22:53:08] <cradek> I can only see it as Wilde, KC Mo
[22:53:32] <cradek> uh http://wildetool.com/
[22:53:33] <pcw_home> its basically an isolated digital potentiometer
[22:54:01] * furrywolf tried wilde. several times.
[22:54:28] <cradek> but they still make pliers
[22:54:33] <cradek> why do you think it's not wilde?
[22:54:55] <furrywolf> because google did not find any matches when I searched for it?
[22:55:10] <cradek> Wilde Tool was located in Kansas City until 1955. In 1955 they moved the operations from Kansas City to Hiawatha, KS.
[22:55:18] <furrywolf> ... it could be google was broken, or I typoed something, because it's finding them now. lol
[22:55:21] <cradek> so they're pre-1955
[22:56:23] <furrywolf> wilde was one of the first things I tried, because it's a common name. before even asking on irc. grr.
[22:56:36] <cradek> much clearer logo: https://home.comcast.net/~alloy-artifacts/Photos/tools/wilde_402_pliers_diag_kcmo_f_cropped_inset2.jpg
[22:57:50] <furrywolf> this pair is an odd shape...
[22:58:33] <furrywolf> yep, that's the logo. much more readable when not all rusty.
[22:59:19] <cradek> I admit I guessed KC Mo on yours, when I couldn't really see the o, but I think the rest is really clear
[22:59:48] <furrywolf> I think I didn't find anything because I had KCMA
[22:59:56] <cradek> aha
[23:00:03] <cradek> my search was wilde tools kansas city
[23:00:56] <furrywolf> hrmm, still made in the USA. I'll need to remember that.
[23:01:50] <furrywolf> now that just about every single brand is china... crescent, irwin, craftsman, klien, allen, etc, etc...
[23:02:26] <cradek> http://www.ebay.com/itm/141654444619
[23:02:26] <furrywolf> the new vise-grips are garbage
[23:03:38] <cradek> patented 1928: https://encrypted.google.com/patents/US1800447
[23:04:45] <cradek> so yours are from somewhere between 1931-1955
[23:05:03] <cradek> ish
[23:05:21] <furrywolf> their construction makes me think on the earlier end of that. no chrome, feels very old and hand-made.
[23:05:51] <cradek> this other example has the patent number stamped, so yours could have been pre-patent, but I kind of doubt it
[23:07:49] <furrywolf> they look older than anything google images is finding
[23:08:13] <cradek> sure could be 20s-30s
[23:08:26] <cradek> it's fun to find and use good old stuff
[23:09:51] <furrywolf> they're in good condition. steel feels quality.
[23:11:07] <furrywolf> why is it that old tools still work better than brand new chinese tools? lol
[23:12:10] <roycroft> the chinese keep their good tooling for themselves
[23:12:23] <roycroft> they send us crap because we're willing to accept crap as long as it is cheap
[23:12:26] <roycroft> don't blame the chinese
[23:12:32] <roycroft> blame the cheapness of the american consumer
[23:12:58] <cradek> I think that's absolutely true
[23:13:14] <cradek> they are given a price point, they meet it
[23:13:47] <cradek> $4.99 for a set of six shapes of pliers? You got it.
[23:14:09] <furrywolf> yes, and with six pairs, you might get six uses before you've thrown them all out.
[23:14:20] <roycroft> and you'll get it next week as well
[23:14:22] <roycroft> and the next week
[23:14:26] <roycroft> as you buy them over and over
[23:15:16] <roycroft> why buy something expensive that lasts a long time when you can get something new and shiny every time?
[23:15:34] <furrywolf> ... because when it breaks it costs me time?
[23:15:46] <roycroft> your time is worth nothing
[23:15:46] <cradek> I don't mind cheap crap, what bothers me is expensive crap
[23:15:50] <roycroft> unless you're the 1%
[23:16:13] <roycroft> and if you were the 1% you would not be on irc
[23:16:41] * furrywolf tries to buy quality tools, not liking having tools break
[23:16:49] <LeelooMinai> furrywolf: You see, you have no life:)
[23:16:54] <furrywolf> most of mine come from yard sales, and many of them will outlast most brand-new tools
[23:17:10] <roycroft> if i know i'm going to abuse a tool and likely break it i'll get the cheapest thing that i can get that i think will get the immediate job done
[23:17:23] <roycroft> otherwise i try to buy quality tools that last
[23:17:34] <roycroft> but keep in mind that i've been buying tools for 40 years
[23:17:46] <roycroft> when i was young i bought a lot of cheap tools because i had few tools
[23:17:52] <roycroft> and i could get more cheap ones than expensive ones
[23:18:00] <roycroft> as i got older i replaced the cheap tools with good ones
[23:18:07] <roycroft> and now i have a lot of tools
[23:18:16] <furrywolf> I only buy chinese when I need a tool now. otherwise I wait until I find a quality one used.
[23:18:43] <roycroft> i'm now in a mode where i buy duplicate tools so i don't have to run from one shop to the other for a tool
[23:18:53] <roycroft> not duplicating everything, of course
[23:19:09] <roycroft> but the most commonly used tools
[23:19:24] <LeelooMinai> Not all Chinese tools are "non-quality". Even some on aliexpress cn be quality and maybe not dirt-cheap, but good value
[23:19:56] <roycroft> good value is the key
[23:20:05] <furrywolf> I have some good-quality Japanese tools. I have no good-quality Chinese tools.
[23:20:06] <roycroft> a good tool is one that is appropriate for the job at hand
[23:20:13] <furrywolf> Japan makes some of the best sex toys too. :P
[23:20:38] <roycroft> if i'm going to open a fire hydrant i don't need a precision spanner
[23:21:01] <roycroft> i need a big durable one
[23:21:06] <LeelooMinai> Just a good raincoat
[23:21:57] <furrywolf> if you're going to open a fire hydrant you need a special fire hydrant spanner. :P
[23:22:18] <furrywolf> standard tools do not grip pentagonal shapes well.
[23:24:33] <cradek> I bet chinese pipe wrenches would do it :-)
[23:25:12] <furrywolf> they're 5-sided just to make sure your random tools _won't_ do it. lol
[23:26:07] <furrywolf> I might buy a brand new pair of locking pliers, if I can find good ones.
[23:26:22] <furrywolf> my vise-grip collection has been dwindling care of people borrowing them.
[23:26:33] <furrywolf> I tried buying a new pair from the local hardware store, but they sucked.
[23:27:11] <furrywolf> they were floppy and twisted sideways
[23:28:01] <roycroft> i don't borrow tools out
[23:28:51] <roycroft> i used to borrow tools occasionally, with the rule that they be returned by sundown in the same condition as they left
[23:29:12] <roycroft> neither of those stipulations were respected consistently
[23:29:28] <roycroft> so the only way people use my tools now is at my shop under my supervision
[23:29:56] <roycroft> however, if you borrow your tools out that would be a good justification for buying some cheap chinese tools
[23:31:34] <furrywolf> http://www.amazon.com/Grip-On-131-10-10-Inch-Locking-Nickel-Plated/dp/B001G0MH0E anyone ever try those?
[23:32:01] <furrywolf> I question their ability to grip small objects, despite the second bump in the jaws
[23:35:55] <furrywolf> http://www.cripedistributing.com/irwin-tools-37-2-pc-original-locking-pliers-set-contains-1-10wr-and-5wr-usa.html heh, or I can buy NOS vise grips
[23:41:45] <furrywolf> several forum threads suggest the grip-on ones, made in spain, are the best currently available
[23:42:14] <furrywolf> they're sold rebranded as proto and snap-on
[23:43:43] <furrywolf> bbl, wolfy bedtime
[23:46:40] <furrywolf> " Even the people who worked for Irwin making those called them "Rice Grips."" lol
[23:46:42] <furrywolf> bbl
[23:48:28] <Crom> nice though it's tailored to ethernet http://wiki.wrtnode.com/index.php?title=Starting
[23:49:33] <Crom> lacking in generic GPIOs
[23:53:40] <Crom> it has wifi and 5 wired ethernet ports
[23:57:16] <archivist> furrywolf, dunno about all, some, there are hundreds of different makes
[23:59:46] <furrywolf> http://www.ebay.com/itm/Vise-Grip-10CR-10-Locking-Pliers-Curve-Jaws-Rare-Made-in-USA-/251220996238 I see ebay sellers have found yet another way to rip people off.