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[00:32:55] <Crom> hmm 746w per horse power, so a 1.5kw spindle is basically a 2hp spindle and at 100% efficiency draws 12.5amps. A 2.2kw spindle draws 18.3 amps on a 120v circuit. So you're better off driving 1.5kw and 2.2kw spindles off 220vac-240vac circuits
[00:33:47] <Crom> 2.2kw spindle is basicallt a 3hp spindle.
[00:40:02] <Computer_Barf1> is linuxcnc-dev within the buildbot sources?
[00:40:30] <Computer_Barf1> i ended up compiling it but that would explain alot
[00:40:58] <Computer_Barf1> cause I was sudo apt-get install linuxcnc and that wasn't working out
[00:44:12] <Crom> Computer_Barf1, you have in /etc/apt/sources.list.d/linuxcnc.list.*
[00:44:30] <Computer_Barf1> yes
[00:44:58] <Computer_Barf1> im just asking if linuxcnc-dev is in there
[00:44:58] <Crom> sources.list.d/linuxcnc.list:deb
http://linuxcnc.org/ wheezy base 2.6
[00:44:58] <Crom> sources.list.d/linuxcnc.list:deb-src
http://linuxcnc.org/ wheezy base 2.6
[00:45:13] <Crom> checking
[00:45:52] <Computer_Barf1> deb
http://buildbot.linuxcnc.org/ wheezy master-rtpreempt deb-src
http://buildbot.linuxcnc.org/ wheezy master-rtpreempt
[00:45:59] <Computer_Barf1> those are the ones I had added
[00:46:39] <Computer_Barf1> this is just a curiousity, ive already compiled it because i couldn't get the linuxcnc in it working for me but I think it might have been that I needed to request linuxcnc-dev
[00:48:02] <Crom> the ones I'm running are listing linuxcnc-dev
[00:48:34] <Crom> not sure of the source yet... I'm using synaptic package manager to get the info
[00:50:03] <Crom> yep it's coming out of deb-src
http://linuxcnc.org/ wheezy base 2.6
[00:58:43] <Computer_Barf1> so just to be clear, installing sudo apt-get install linuxcnc would be diffrent than sudo apt-get install linucnc-dev ?
[00:58:54] <Computer_Barf1> woops i ment linuxcnc-dev
[00:59:38] <Crom> yep
[00:59:58] <Computer_Barf1> cause on the buildbot archives sources page it doesn't mention linuxcnc-dev, which i think kinda threw me for a loop.
[01:00:32] <Crom> hmmm interesting paypal told the sellers I bought the stuff, I don't see anything in my bank statement that says they took money out
[01:00:47] <Computer_Barf1> it might be useful to mention that to whomever maintains that paage
[01:01:13] <Computer_Barf1> paypal always gets it's due
[01:01:14] <Crom> so I'm getting $67 worth of stuff for $0 right now
[01:01:21] <Computer_Barf1> *game of thrones reference
[01:01:54] <Crom> well they better not take it right now... I have $11 in the bank
[01:06:13] <Computer_Barf1> hold on
[01:06:23] <Computer_Barf1> trying to think of a way to extend the game of thrones metaphore
[01:07:48] <Computer_Barf1> perhaps you could agree to join an alliance and little finger, ahem paypal will float you a loan from embezzled money back from when he was the master of coin in kings landing
[01:09:01] <Computer_Barf1> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XxLKfAZrhbM
[01:09:10] <Computer_Barf1> watching this video on voltage dividers
[01:18:34] <Crom> heh
[01:20:50] <Crom> weird maybe I have to wait for midnight local time
[01:21:10] <Crom> waiting for VA pay to show up
[01:35:26] <Computer_Barf1> is linuxcnc development taking a definative move away from ubuntu?
[01:39:45] <Crom> dunno really.. latest greatest distro linuxcnc is debian... So I think maybe yes
[01:40:57] <Crom> fsck'n NRA arguing for Open Carry Ban in California, contra to what the Supremes said in Heller and McDonald
[01:41:29] <Computer_Barf1> I regard the NRA as a gun control organisation
[01:41:41] <Computer_Barf1> gun owners of america ftw
[01:41:45] <Crom> ditto
[01:42:39] <Crom> https://www.facebook.com/CaliforniaRightToCarry
[01:42:50] <Crom> wish I could send him some money
[01:44:11] <Computer_Barf1> https://gunowners.org/
[01:45:23] <norias> guns?
[01:46:32] <norias> i like guns
[01:46:38] <Crom> fsck'n brain dead cops... Total idiots
http://thefreethoughtproject.com/cop-runs-red-light-forces-drivers-road-ticket-fire-chief-responding-actual-emergency/
[01:46:40] <norias> i like open carry
[01:47:00] <norias> trying to hide a full size combat pistol in your pants
[01:47:03] <norias> is a pain
[01:47:06] <Crom> norias I used to do it all the time when I was in the service
[01:47:29] <norias> i started open carrying after i got back from iraq
[01:47:39] <norias> at first i was concealing
[01:47:48] <norias> then i realized open carry was legal where i live
[01:47:53] <norias> so i said to hell with that
[01:48:03] <Crom> when I got back to california it was unloaded open carry and cops could stop you every 5 feet and check to see if it was loaded
[01:48:15] <norias> nightmare
[01:48:26] <norias> why carry if it's unloaded?
[01:48:29] <norias> that's an insane law
[01:48:46] <Crom> concealed carry is illegal without a permit except in constitional carry states
[01:49:05] <norias> yeah
[01:49:14] <norias> we're "shall issue" here
[01:49:18] <Crom> It's People Republic of California
[01:49:22] <norias> so, at least there's that
[01:50:10] <Crom> Which is why I'm supporting Chuck Nichols case best I can. Talking it up, spreading the awareness
[01:50:23] <norias> not familiar
[01:50:55] <Crom> oh and the Gorgia Fire Chief was handed 3 tickets
[01:51:04] <Crom> https://www.facebook.com/CaliforniaRightToCarry
[01:51:27] <Crom> http://blog.californiarighttocarry.org/?page_id=739
[01:52:28] <Computer_Barf1> Its fine if people want to try but I'm not much of a believer in any sort of fix coming by political action
[01:52:50] <Crom> it's more Judicial action
[01:52:51] <Computer_Barf1> I think it just feeds the delusion of belief in political authority
[01:53:05] <Crom> since the fsck'n Poli's can't read
[01:53:09] <Computer_Barf1> which is how we got to gun control being percieved as a solution
[01:54:15] <Computer_Barf1> although i would perfer minarchism and a return to constitutional roots to the kind of abject statism we are used to today,
[01:54:16] <Crom> man I want to finish milling my 80% receiver
[01:54:23] <Computer_Barf1> I just don't think its going to work out
[01:54:58] <Computer_Barf1> face the dark enlightenment. empires fall. the rubicon has been crossed.
[01:55:22] <norias> republics are historically short lived
[01:56:28] <Computer_Barf1> I think the constitution was subverted before the ink was dry
[01:56:41] <norias> that's one perspective
[01:56:46] <norias> not one i agree with
[01:56:47] <norias> but, eh
[01:57:01] <Computer_Barf1> imagine if I got a piece of paper
[01:57:07] <Computer_Barf1> and i gathered some guys together
[01:57:16] <Computer_Barf1> and we decided that we were going to represent you
[01:57:23] <Computer_Barf1> and we all vote and write down some rules
[01:57:31] <Computer_Barf1> and on the paper it says
[01:57:36] <Computer_Barf1> its legitimate for us to rob you
[01:57:39] <norias> which is pretty much the root of republics
[01:58:01] <norias> it's always this tenuous agreement between the rich and the poor
[01:58:21] <norias> there's usually a constitution that is reffered to when it is convenient
[01:58:45] <norias> the ability of either side of an argument to call on the constitution acts as a bounds check
[01:59:36] <norias> we tend to forget this stuff has been done before
[01:59:58] <norias> the people that started this country pretty explicitly based it on the roman republic
[02:00:29] <norias> George Washington stepped in to act as Cincinnatus
[02:01:39] <norias> i think we made a mistake when we disenfranchised the rich
[02:01:46] <norias> by opening the senate to popular election
[02:02:07] <norias> once money has no direct route to power, it seeks indirect routes
[02:02:23] <norias> we see similar things in rome
[02:02:33] <Computer_Barf1> well in some ways the latest iteration was a departure but ultimately yes it seems that it succumbed to histories rhyming. I think if you are going to claim yourself sovriegn to the king , its a bit surprising when they forget the implications of that in contrast to the creation of their own local government. I believe they went far but not far enough.
[02:02:36] <norias> we see most of the wealth being controlled by the 1%
[02:02:45] <norias> but, the romans made the mistake of reform
[02:02:51] <norias> first, it didn't work
[02:03:00] <norias> they redistributed the land (wealth)
[02:03:05] <norias> and it failed terribly
[02:03:22] <norias> as it turns out, the system that was in place had been very efficient
[02:03:36] <norias> we are in a situation where productivity is higher than ever
[02:03:40] <Computer_Barf1> I don't have a problem with wealth disparity , I have a problem with the legitimisation of political authority as a means that can be leveraged by that current 1 percent to maintain their position to avoid the churning of wealth turnover.
[02:03:45] <norias> but wages in terms of capital are low
[02:04:06] <norias> well, i think it's important to note the romans faced the same problem
[02:04:13] <norias> they tried redistribution
[02:04:15] <norias> it failed
[02:04:24] <norias> the reformers were hung in the street
[02:04:25] <norias> by Sulla
[02:04:29] <Computer_Barf1> yes thats a pretty big aspect they don't teach enough
[02:04:32] <norias> that's where it gets dangerous
[02:04:47] <norias> because remember Sulla was Julius Ceasar's uncle
[02:05:00] <norias> so, Ceasar justified his dictatorship
[02:05:03] <norias> and march on Rome
[02:05:08] <norias> because Sulla had done so
[02:05:19] <norias> precedent
[02:06:00] <norias> i think the lesson is be careful how you fix wealth disparity
[02:06:05] <norias> or don't fix it at all
[02:06:21] <norias> because what comes next, when the fix fails, can be ugly
[02:06:36] <Computer_Barf1> I think the churning of the markets does it better than political authority ever does
[02:06:49] <norias> i don't disagree
[02:07:04] <Computer_Barf1> in trying to create a solution you create a concentration of power that is a magnet to people who want to possess such power
[02:07:05] <norias> i will note that i think one of the real problems are in barriers to entry
[02:07:22] <norias> one of the best modes of wealth creation is the corporation
[02:07:29] <norias> which is effectively barred to the poor
[02:07:43] <norias> because the paperwork, the taxes, it's hard
[02:08:09] <norias> i just worked on my accounting until 2am
[02:08:37] <norias> i'm trying to get ahead of the ball for my 2nd quarter filings
[02:08:38] <Computer_Barf1> PEOPLE are bad so in order to cure the deep darkness in their human hearts we must therefore put PEOPLE in charge of a legitimised psuedo moneopoly on the use of the initation of force and violence. No psychopath will ever take notice of such power.
[02:08:53] <norias> because i make enough money through my business to lose stuff to taxes
[02:09:00] <norias> but not enough to employ a good accountant
[02:09:20] <Computer_Barf1> yes I don't regard corporations as free market institutions. They are literal constructs of the state.
[02:09:34] <norias> regard them as what you will
[02:09:43] <norias> but they can be a good vehicle for wealth creation
[02:09:51] <norias> but you have to understand tax code
[02:09:59] <norias> legal paperwork for formation
[02:10:03] <norias> accounting
[02:10:12] <Computer_Barf1> I don't think though they are the source of that wealth creation
[02:10:13] <norias> not stuff they teach in public school
[02:10:30] <norias> i don't say it's necessarily the source
[02:10:33] <norias> in a small company
[02:10:35] <Computer_Barf1> I think the contracts that comprise them ride on the wealth creation that is inherent to capital exchange
[02:10:41] <norias> i think it's a useful vehicle
[02:11:21] <norias> i'm just stating that if want to start a company
[02:11:35] <norias> you probably won't figure it out if your poor and undereducated
[02:11:46] <norias> which is a huge change over the past 60 years
[02:11:53] <Computer_Barf1> I just think alot of people have been persueded to believe aspects that are otherwise available in the open market are somehow created by corporations
[02:11:55] <norias> my grandfather has an 8th grade education
[02:12:00] <norias> and he started a company
[02:12:03] <norias> in the 50's
[02:12:35] <Computer_Barf1> unfortunantly they are really the only option available in the current enviroment, and yes suffer from what you are saying
[02:13:18] <Computer_Barf1> barriers to access , regulatory market capture, crony-capitalism presented as if it were capitalism.
[02:13:22] <norias> i mean, honestly, i'm a smart dude
[02:13:30] <norias> and it's hard to do this accounting stuff
[02:13:38] <norias> and get it right
[02:13:46] <norias> to get the revenue recognition right
[02:13:49] <norias> etc
[02:13:54] <Computer_Barf1> oh no yeah i totally agree. Most people work for someone else so they have no idea
[02:14:13] <norias> having a job, in a lot of ways, is fucking easy
[02:14:15] <Crom> yep..
[02:14:24] <norias> but, i don't.. it's not for me
[02:14:26] <Computer_Barf1> I mean the number of people that are self employed today are a tiny fraction
[02:14:41] <norias> i don't think that employment is how you generate wealth for yourself
[02:14:56] <norias> it's easy, it's comfortable
[02:15:00] <norias> it pays the bills
[02:15:04] <norias> but that's about it
[02:15:30] <Computer_Barf1> Well you give up on exponential curves in a alot of ways.
[02:16:04] <norias> starting a business is hard enough
[02:16:14] <norias> doing sales and worrying if you'll have revenues next month
[02:16:29] <norias> all the government requirements make it almost not worth it
[02:16:47] <norias> almost
[02:16:53] <Deejay> moin
[02:16:54] <Crom> and china price doesn't let one really get into manufactoring except for a very small niche markets
[02:17:00] <Computer_Barf1> I've made my million and lost it and started all over again, you don't need to tell me what it's like out there.
[02:17:08] <norias> uh, funny, i'm in manufacturing
[02:17:19] <norias> it's doable
[02:17:26] <norias> i don't deal with the communists
[02:17:34] <archivist_herron> you make the money when you sell the company
[02:18:22] <Crom> norias you're in a niche market aren't you?
[02:18:32] <norias> i wouldn't say that
[02:18:55] <norias> i do manufacturing consulting
[02:19:04] <norias> i mostly help with new product development
[02:19:12] <Crom> ahh service industry
[02:19:17] <norias> i've done the numbers a ton of times
[02:19:18] <Computer_Barf1> i don't know how you wouldn't deal with them in commiefornia
[02:19:30] <norias> so much stuff doesn't make sense in china
[02:19:36] <norias> i..
[02:19:48] <norias> i actually make my money because people assume you have to go to china
[02:19:52] <norias> in a way
[02:19:57] <Computer_Barf1> yeah
[02:20:08] <Computer_Barf1> that is happening more than you would think
[02:20:16] <norias> i'm not surprised
[02:20:20] <norias> the economics are there
[02:20:27] <norias> if you value your development time
[02:20:28] <Computer_Barf1> it will be interesting when the chinese decide that they are better off selling to their own people
[02:20:29] <norias> and time to market
[02:20:41] <Computer_Barf1> than to keep on sending stuff to us for money that is losing its value
[02:21:27] <norias> you know, i think
[02:21:27] <Computer_Barf1> or iou's
[02:21:38] <norias> the chinese can beat us on labor (less so now)
[02:21:46] <norias> and they have the same technology
[02:21:51] <norias> they can use if they want
[02:22:06] <norias> i think our ability to not-centrally organize
[02:22:11] <norias> and our markets
[02:22:17] <norias> will crush china in the long run
[02:22:31] <Computer_Barf1> well
[02:22:45] <Computer_Barf1> our distributed nature has been in the decline
[02:22:55] <norias> yeah, i agree
[02:23:05] <norias> and the chinese are becoming more decentralized
[02:23:19] <norias> but i think we can have it, if we want
[02:23:32] <norias> in 20 years, maybe not
[02:23:45] <norias> but if we press our advantage now
[02:23:53] <Computer_Barf1> 40,000 something new laws in the last year
[02:23:57] <norias> yeah
[02:24:00] <norias> it's crazy
[02:24:09] <Computer_Barf1> our laws read more like books than rules
[02:24:17] <norias> that's why i brought up my grandfather
[02:24:24] <norias> get him on this subject
[02:24:25] <Computer_Barf1> I think its all going to have to come down before people wise up
[02:24:27] <norias> he cusses
[02:24:35] <norias> says he'd never start a business these days
[02:25:40] <norias> anyway
[02:25:42] <norias> i should sleep
[02:25:45] <norias> meeting in the morning
[02:26:02] <Computer_Barf1> have a good night
[02:26:05] <norias> you too
[02:26:26] <Crom> lawyers were outlawed in the Massachusetts Colony for over a 100 years
[02:28:04] <Computer_Barf1> lysander spooner was from mass
[02:29:01] <Computer_Barf1> he started out a pretty noteable life over his dispute over rules pertaining to what it took to be a lawyer
[02:30:05] <Computer_Barf1> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lysander_Spooner
[02:30:37] <Crom> The "Body of Liberties" adopted by the Massachusetts Bay Colony in 1641 expressed the typical attitudes of the time: "Every man that finds himself unfit to plead his own cause in any court shall have liberty to employ any man ..., provided he give him no fee or reward for his pain."
[02:33:02] <Computer_Barf1> that is interesting
[02:33:51] <Crom> well one check showed up
[02:33:53] <Computer_Barf1> similar to the sentiment that requiring someone to represent you may in part be seen as an admission of incompetence
[02:34:20] <Computer_Barf1> we're a long way away from such thoughts
[02:36:08] <Computer_Barf1> im wondering what exactly gets broken when a distro upgrade happens in debian that causes linuxcnc to cease functioning correctly
[02:36:30] <Crom> usually kernel, or libraries
[02:37:07] <Computer_Barf1> ok so yeah , I've been going through the whole trouble of building my own kernel for RT-prempt
[02:38:20] <Computer_Barf1> It's just I've heard of ppl using modern versions of ubuntu and compiling linuxcnc and the kernel patching for parport stuff
[02:38:56] <Computer_Barf1> but that brings us back to the why debian question so im going in circiles
[02:39:01] <Computer_Barf1> blerb
[02:39:10] <Computer_Barf1> sorry i have rubber hands at these hours
[02:45:17] <Computer_Barf1> Crom: sounds like the iron bank will be collecting a bounce fee
[02:53:00] <Deejay> re
[02:54:44] <XXCoder1> home early jeez
[02:54:46] <XXCoder1> got so sick
[03:01:19] <Computer_Barf1> drink less then
[03:01:31] <XXCoder1> ... drink?
[03:01:41] <Computer_Barf1> your home early
[03:01:44] <Computer_Barf1> you got so sick
[03:01:53] <XXCoder1> and?
[03:02:13] <Computer_Barf1> so I jokingly made the presumption that you got sick from too much drinking
[03:02:24] <Computer_Barf1> and thats why you are home early
[03:02:25] <XXCoder1> oh
[03:02:27] <XXCoder1> lol
[03:02:33] <XXCoder1> sorry muddled thinking
[03:02:43] <XXCoder1> hats why home early, muddled head = fewer fingers
[03:02:45] <Computer_Barf1> see that fits too
[03:03:01] <XXCoder1> :)
[03:03:39] <Computer_Barf1> my plan for fewer fingers is eventual robot hands
[03:03:57] <Computer_Barf1> and throw in some robot legs just for speed
[03:04:05] <XXCoder1> lol
[03:07:13] <Computer_Barf1> for an estop , on line would go to the pin number configured for it , and presumably the other would go to ground?
[03:09:50] <Crom> depend on the pin.. it might need 5v
[03:11:10] <Crom> estop I'd want to wire as NC have it activate on active low
[03:11:32] <Crom> so a broken wire would trigger it
[03:11:58] <Computer_Barf1> i dont really mean so much as estop but im trying to understand how the individual pins are usually wired
[03:12:29] <Computer_Barf1> the mesa 7i76e I have has a ton of extra pins
[03:12:53] <Computer_Barf1> ive just yet to have hooked up any of them
[03:13:16] <Computer_Barf1> the steppers are more strait forward that you plug in the step / dirs
[03:14:45] <XXCoder1> heh cant wait to finally have time to build my cnc router
[03:14:51] <Crom> on my Break Out Board I was having to use 5v to pin on inputs and pin to ground for outputs
[03:15:14] <XXCoder1> this weekend is first one I dont have to drive billion miles to move stuff
[03:22:42] <Computer_Barf1> moving is hell
[03:24:27] <XXCoder1> yeah mostly not my stuff even lol
[03:24:36] <XXCoder1> helping my bro
[06:09:57] <jthornton> Tom_itx, still backing up the w7 machine, all others backed up
[07:04:18] <Tom_itx> taking a good long while
[07:19:02] <jthornton> yea the XP was 142GB I expect the w7 to be twice that
[07:21:23] <jthornton> a lot of the stuff is duplicated and copies from older computers... I need to clean it up one day
[07:30:06] <_methods> i keep sayin that myself
[07:32:50] <Tom_itx> i don't mind keeping duplicates on multiple pcs
[07:33:03] <Tom_itx> i've had that come in pretty handy at times
[07:33:44] <_methods> it has saved my buttox a few times
[07:33:56] <_methods> my random distributed storage schema
[07:34:53] <Tom_itx> sometimes when i go to edit something i gotta remember where the original was in case they were different
[07:36:05] <_methods> random redundancy lol
[07:37:50] <Tom_itx> that usually only happens when i'm updating a hal or pin file and need to update the docs which are on a win pc
[07:38:34] <Tom_itx> i try to keep good record of the cnc setup including wire colors etc
[07:39:28] <_methods> indeed
[07:59:38] <archivist_herron> I wrote a deduplicating program for that problem
[08:00:29] <archivist_herron> checksum,filename and filesize
[08:01:55] <archivist_herron> and for images I can see a thumb and any exif info to make sure
[08:23:39] <Deejay> re
[11:50:01] <CaptHindsight> http://kukuruku.co/hub/diy/usb-killer?ModPagespeed=noscript hows this for a nasty surprise?
[11:50:16] <_methods> yeah man
[11:50:21] <_methods> leave that in a parking lot
[11:51:00] <_methods> or on you fav co workers desk lol
[11:51:55] <CaptHindsight> marked "top secret, do not use"
[11:52:09] <CaptHindsight> so you have technically warned them
[11:52:23] <CaptHindsight> curiosity killed the PC
[11:52:33] <_methods> hahah
[11:52:45] <_methods> big red do not press button
[11:54:38] <archivist> note at least one glaring error "N-channel field resistor"
[11:54:59] <CaptHindsight> a pocket sized EMP would also be very handy
[11:55:08] <_methods> resistor transistor potato potatoe
[11:58:47] <CaptHindsight> I'd pay for an app that does that to someones phone over the network
[11:59:10] <CaptHindsight> especially for robocallers
[12:00:10] <CaptHindsight> telemarketing phone calls
[12:11:15] <_methods> if only
[12:40:34] <Computer_barf> ok so I got my usb ethernet adapter today and with a little network configuration I'm on the internet with the usb, and have managed to ping my mesa 7i76e over the hardwear ethernet
[12:43:08] <Computer_barf> PCW: so now that I can ping and get a response from the 7i76e ,
http://pastebin.com/nZNHkwRa this is where I am at with running linuxcnc using your 7i76es.ini configuration file , appears to be mac address related.
[12:43:09] <archivist> usb?
[12:43:44] <Computer_barf> usb to ethernet, just for accessing the internet
[12:44:17] <Computer_barf> cause the board only has one ethernet port and its going to be used
[12:58:31] <_methods> andypugh: did you make drawings/prints for your harrison conversion?
[12:58:55] <_methods> i'd be curious to see all the modifications you've made to cnc it
[12:58:58] <andypugh> Yes and no.
[12:59:12] <andypugh> All the bits I made were 3D modelled first.
[12:59:20] <_methods> there are like 8 horizontals at this auction in a couple weeks and it looks like i can pick one up for like $100
[12:59:39] <andypugh> Go for it, they are nice little machines.
[12:59:53] <_methods> yeah for that cheap i can't pass up
[13:00:07] <_methods> and they take up less space than a full bridgeport
[13:00:10] <archivist> and another for spares
[13:00:58] <_methods> no one even looks at those things at auctions anymore
[13:01:05] <_methods> i see them go for $50 some times
[13:03:07] <Computer_barf> PCW: ok I modified the 7i76es1.ini to DRIVER=hm2_eth board_ip="10.10.10.10" , and I seem to be getting a little further.
http://pastebin.com/mH59rBHi
[13:03:40] <andypugh> _methods: Snag any horizontal arbors > 1” too, if you can :-)
[13:03:47] <_methods> yeah
[13:03:59] <andypugh> (You need a 1” too, but I have one of those)
[13:04:12] <t12> http://sfbay.craigslist.org/pen/tls/4999652098.html
[13:04:26] <t12> this is likely way too expensive to buy anything for huh
[13:04:37] <andypugh> It’s prettty spendy
[13:04:51] <t12> every schaublin part seems to be both custom
[13:04:52] <PCW> hm2-pidstepper.hal:232: parameter or pin 'hm2_7i76e.0.7i76.0.0.spinout-scalemax' not found
[13:04:53] <t12> and at least $1k
[13:04:54] <PCW> means you dont have field power
[13:04:58] <andypugh> Note that is a plain-turning lathe, no carriage traverse
[13:05:53] <archivist> I have spent many hours on schaublins, very fast to swap jobs/setups
[13:06:24] <archivist> that would be £3000 over here
[13:06:50] <andypugh> Rivetts are pretty neat too, no tools at all needed other than a chuck key
[13:07:03] <t12> i missed a very nice sb9 on craigslist for
[13:07:04] <t12> 900
[13:07:10] <t12> by like 2 hours
[13:07:25] <andypugh> I can’t operate Craiglist. I can only ever search my postcode
[13:07:31] <Computer_barf> PCW: im supposed to supply power somewhere lese than the green 5v in?
[13:07:40] <archivist> for clockmakers you cant beat the schaublin
[13:07:41] <Computer_barf> *else
[13:07:47] <t12> i guess i'm back to looking at weiss lathes sadly
[13:07:57] <t12> i'm still trying to figure out where to set expectations on them
[13:08:56] <archivist> now I have the Lorch equivalent to the shaublin, I know which is better
[13:10:41] <PCW> Computer_barf: yes field I/O runs on a separate supply ( It can be cmpletely isolated from the 5V logic supply)
[13:10:56] <andypugh> There was a Holbrook lathe on Gumtree I was thinking of buying, but it looks to have gone and saved me the decision
[13:11:29] <t12> this whole no concrete floor and no forklift and loading dock thing
[13:11:34] <t12> really puts a cramp on nice lathe purchasing
[13:12:03] <archivist> I need a real 240 to 440v inverter to get my schaubling running
[13:12:28] <t12> easier to switch motors maybe?
[13:12:44] <andypugh> t12 I know there is a Rivett 8” Precision on CL somewhere
[13:12:52] <archivist> t12, planks of wood an rollers can get a machine over very rough ground
[13:12:57] <andypugh> Have a search, if you can figure out CL, because I can't
[13:13:42] <t12> i wonder how much my floor could actually support
[13:13:45] <archivist> t12, I wish, the motor is direct coupled to the belt variable speed drive
[13:13:55] <t12> with much trouble i could cut a chunk of it out and pour a pad through the wood floor i guess
[13:15:02] <_methods> hehe sink some i-beams and weld a plate to the top of them
[13:15:04] <t12> https://denver.craigslist.org/tls/4995485698.html ?
[13:15:11] <t12> could do that
[13:15:17] <t12> though lots of rock unther the house
[13:15:18] <archivist> this is on a wood floor
http://www.collection.archivist.info/archive/DJCPD/PD/2008/2008_10_07_Richards_of_Burton_clockworks/P1010232.JPG
[13:15:21] <t12> home-fundex
[13:16:07] <_methods> heh wow that rivett is beautiful
[13:16:11] <t12> i could just get a real space and move all this stuff there
[13:16:22] <archivist> although steel beams were inserted under the floor when ex boss excavated the cellar
[13:16:24] <_methods> i don't know if i could live with myself cutting anything besides gold on it
[13:16:35] <t12> lol
[13:16:57] <andypugh> That’s the one
[13:17:09] <t12> i like the combination of swiss lathe and total mess of swarf
[13:17:13] <t12> very untypical
[13:17:30] <andypugh> That was a lathe that cost $500 in 1911 and $2000 in 1936. In 1936 a Myford ML4 lathe was £7. !
[13:17:45] <archivist> hehe, it was a "working" clockmakers
[13:18:13] <t12> then i came across these austrian lathe makers
[13:18:25] <t12> klippfeld
[13:18:46] <andypugh> That’s a nice Schaublin. The original Craigslist one was a Plain Turning lathe, and I don’t think those are anything like as useful. No threading, for a start.
[13:19:13] <archivist> clockmakers hardly need threading
[13:19:24] <t12> http://www.klippfeld.at/frame_en/dreh.php
[13:19:28] <andypugh> Is t12 a clockmaker?
[13:19:35] <t12> which is suprisingly affordable
[13:19:38] <archivist> no I am though :)
[13:19:40] <t12> i would like threading
[13:19:55] <t12> i hate the obsessive compromise trap of HSM
[13:20:17] <archivist> for normal turning then any toolroom lathe
[13:20:28] <t12> all these klippfelds appear to be linear rail based also
[13:20:29] <andypugh> Those Kippfeld lathes look nice, but for the price I really can’t believe that they are
[13:20:53] <t12> yeah thats what i was thinking
[13:21:15] <t12> though they claim to have been making them since the 60s
[13:21:24] <t12> hard to find much forumsish chatter about them
[13:22:01] <archivist> I note lots of extras that bump the price up
[13:22:34] <MrFluffy> the thing about the schlaubins is you can find the extras from time to time now
[13:22:44] <MrFluffy> but you meant the kippfeld I guess
[13:22:57] <Computer_barf> PCW: so looking at the manual, my best guess is TB1 , pin 5 VIN, pin 8 ground, and I can probably power that with 12 volts?
[13:24:17] <MrFluffy> I offloaded a tripan111 for a schaublin and it only fetched $180 with 5 holders. Sometimes the prices are pretty low here.
[13:24:24] <PCW> 12V or 24V to TB1 pins 1 and 8
[13:25:04] <PCW> 1 (bottom) = +V
[13:25:06] <PCW> 8(top) = common
[13:25:22] <t12> i could go for the ultimate in non-completion projects
[13:25:29] <t12> and just try and build one up from linear rails
[13:25:39] <andypugh> This onw looks properly nice
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Gornati-Leopard-1-metal-lathe-/181725068619?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_3&hash=item2a4fa87d4b
[13:25:41] <t12> pretty annoying to do without living in a real shop of other large machines though
[13:26:06] <archivist> t12, the klippfeld has a kit option
[13:26:13] <Computer_barf> PCW: roger that
[13:26:17] <andypugh> t12: If the Rivett is in-budget then they have a real following, and they can live in the front room.
[13:27:48] <andypugh> In fact, there is one in my front room ;-)
https://picasaweb.google.com/108164504656404380542/Rivett?nordirect=1#5978884791542655522
[13:27:50] <t12> i suppose i could somehow freight it
[13:30:22] <archivist> toys indoors++
[13:31:37] * MrFluffy drags himself away from leboncoin and pictures of massive cazeneuve lathes... One thing at a time...
[13:31:55] <MrFluffy> Porn...
http://www.leboncoin.fr/equipements_industriels/676298988.htm?ca=14_s
[13:32:26] <andypugh> t12: Look at all the accessories they made for the Rivett:
http://www.lathes.co.uk/rivettearly608/index.html
[13:32:33] <_methods> you can make some big ass pizzas on that thing
[13:32:54] <MrFluffy> I cant believe I live in their homeland and own a harrison...
[13:33:53] <t12> i could just move to the old millitary base
[13:34:03] <t12> with square miles of monarchs sitting in storage
[13:34:40] <_methods> yeah i've always got my eye out for that 10ee
[13:35:04] <andypugh> MrFluffy: Which Harrison?
[13:35:17] <andypugh> I actually want an M300 to convert to CNC
[13:35:19] <MrFluffy> theres a little backstreet garage near me with a cazeneuve with a 2.5m between centres, but every time I visit they have things lying all over it
[13:35:31] <andypugh> (They are common enough that it won’t feel like I am being evil)
[13:35:39] <t12> thats is a long list of attachments
[13:35:43] <MrFluffy> Its only a l5a, 60s with a metric conversion
[13:36:09] <andypugh> Ah, yeah, something about the L5 doesn’t really work for me :-)
[13:36:20] <MrFluffy> it has the screwed spindle nose, but I have the l00 spindle to go in when I get round to it
[13:36:41] <MrFluffy> yes the school lathe :)
[13:37:53] <andypugh> My dad has a lathe that would make a good CNC conversion. Smart and Brown Model M
[13:37:54] <andypugh> http://www.lathes.co.uk/smartbrown/page7.html
[13:38:08] <MrFluffy> they are not well liked especially, but for the size theyre quite solid if theyre not knackered, like anything else, but not suitable for cnc conversion
[13:38:41] <andypugh> The leadscrew is in the middle underneath and the saddle comes down from both sides to it. The screw is the only feed, so conversion to ballscrew is trivial.
[13:38:55] <MrFluffy> there was a rather nice dsg on ebay uk a bit back, but I had no idea how to get 5 ton of lathe home...
[13:39:15] <archivist> ask a lorry driver
[13:39:34] <MrFluffy> yes Ive had a 7ton machine shipped from the uk, but it wasnt a pleasant experience...
[13:40:09] <MrFluffy> and the last machine I had shipped by general freight i said that was the last, if I cant go get it, I dont buy it
[13:40:42] <andypugh> I had thought that self-drive HIAB hire was no longer possible, but a web-search today showed I was wrong:
http://hire.maunmotors.co.uk/hire-vehicle-midlands-nottingham-derby-sheffield/7-5t-dropside-flatbed-crane-lorry-hire-front-mounted/
[13:40:51] <MrFluffy> I think they had used the cabinet for the depot game of conkers, and put a fork through various panels in it, but the insurance is marine insurance only
[13:41:57] <_methods> $3600 for a monarch 10ee
[13:42:07] <t12> 3000 lbs for a monarch 10ee :(
[13:42:21] <MrFluffy> you need a 7t license though, its only grandfathered licenses come with that group now, i dont even have trailer entitlement...
[13:42:27] <andypugh> _methods: Sold! Where?
[13:42:36] <_methods> florida
[13:42:46] <_methods> orlando
[13:42:50] <andypugh> MrFluffy: Ah, but I am old, and I do have all thise thigns
[13:42:54] <_methods> http://orlando.craigslist.org/tls/5001437845.html
[13:42:55] <andypugh> _methods: Bah!
[13:43:16] <MrFluffy> my wife has, but I messed round with bikes for years before sullying myself with a car license and missed the cutoff by 2 weeks...
[13:44:02] <andypugh> That was careless
[13:46:14] <archivist> t12 or an old southbend
[13:46:23] <t12> yeah
[13:46:32] <t12> theres one at a scrapyard i frequent in a backroom i could try and purchase
[13:47:13] <archivist> I saw one in a paint shop near here, I asked and got it cheap enough
[13:48:54] <archivist> one day I might get it all pained in one colour
[13:50:05] <andypugh> If you like films of extreme welding, you might enjoy this:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7hCPODjJO7s
[13:51:38] <_methods> extreme welding?
[13:51:50] <_methods> http://bham.craigslist.org/for/4953577650.html
[13:53:09] <andypugh> _methods: That’s the 5C one, which is rather easier to get collets for.
[13:53:45] <_methods> i bet
[13:54:26] <_methods> http://bham.craigslist.org/atq/4941158157.html
[13:54:29] <_methods> this is funny
[13:54:39] <_methods> built in Germany or Australia.
[13:54:40] <_methods> hahahah
[13:54:49] <_methods> those australian woodworkers are legendary
[13:55:14] <t12> next to sushi village!
[13:55:21] <andypugh> Compare and contrast:
https://shophardinge.co.uk/product.aspx?partNo=16250019000468
[13:55:22] <andypugh> https://shophardinge.co.uk/product.aspx?partNo=10010017010000
[13:55:59] <_methods> yeah that's a whacky collet
[13:56:11] <_methods> i don't think i've ever seen any 4ns laying around
[13:56:28] <andypugh> More than 3x the price of a much bigger 5C. It simply isn’t fair
[13:57:24] <t12> work is very slow today
[13:57:28] <t12> i should go take something apart
[13:58:00] <_methods> http://athensga.craigslist.org/tls/4979808728.html
[13:58:05] <_methods> i need to go grab that
[13:58:08] <_methods> for $750
[13:58:22] <_methods> oh nm
[13:58:26] <_methods> not original compound
[13:58:58] <XXCoder1> if you has large machines, make your own reproduction heh
[14:03:00] <andypugh> Right! To the workshop!
[14:03:18] <Tom_itx> TGIF
[14:03:52] <XXCoder1> tgis here heh
[14:04:04] <XXCoder1> yeserday was my "friday"
[14:04:30] <XXCoder1> I only has "tues" to "friday". fuck monday. lol
[14:10:28] <XXCoder1> furrywolf: hey
[14:23:28] <MrFluffy> I have gearchange.0.scale2 set to 10, gearchange.0.speed-in is a float currently with value 5525 in hal monitor, and gearchange.0.speed-out is 200. How does that work then?
[14:24:26] <MrFluffy> 5525/10 or 5525*10 does not equal 200.
[14:30:54] <MrFluffy> *lightbulb* I am requesting a speed above the max1 value in low gear...
[14:36:51] <Computer_barf> humm ok now I got linuxcnc runs and all and I am evidently successfully connecting to my mesa card, I turn on the power for the machine in linuxcnc and try to move the x axis, it makes a light click sound and it pops up "joint 2 following error"
[14:37:23] <Computer_barf> but pretty good considering im just using pcw's configuration file
[14:39:06] <PCW> you might set the ferror settings wider in the ini file
[14:39:44] <Computer_barf> i was getting some other message previously but figured out i needed to run the jitter test and update the figure
[14:40:09] <Computer_barf> ok looking for ferror
[14:41:34] <PCW> what CPU and Ethernet chip?
[14:41:55] <Computer_barf> well its a asrock q1900
[14:42:04] <PCW> OK
[14:42:08] <Computer_barf> i would have to look up the specifics
[14:42:34] <Computer_barf> i picked the board based on someone else having it and a 7i76e
[14:42:38] <PCW> thats a Realtek mac chip
[14:43:24] <Computer_barf> ok i see ferror on each axis , any suggestion on what i should put it at?
[14:43:38] <Computer_barf> or is that based on something to do with my hardwear?
[14:44:12] <PCW> there's both ferror and min-ferror
[14:44:37] <Computer_barf> i will be so very excited today if I can lift my z axis
[14:45:08] <Computer_barf> i got a pretty good thrill from the click
[14:46:16] <PCW> you will also probably have to set reasonable step/dir timings to match your drives
[14:46:17] <PCW> and acceleration and velocity limits
[14:47:01] <unfy> did something i never thought i'd ever do today.... put snake oil into vehicle to buy some time ._.
[14:47:19] <Computer_barf> how many snakes did you have to press
[14:47:53] <unfy> 1 really big one to get a pint of oil ... it's kinda handy that their mouths continue to open / close after they're dead.
[14:48:26] <Computer_barf> I perfer banana oil
[14:48:45] <unfy> or perhaps 'essence of mechanic' ?
[14:49:48] <unfy> sadly, this makes things complicated for cnc work... i'm tempted to replace my truck with an econo car. econo cars make hauling plywood, mdf, acryllic, etc difficult :(
[14:50:24] <MrFluffy> Its not snake oil if it works
[14:50:38] <unfy> so far, it is indeed working.
[14:51:51] <MrFluffy> heavier oil, or radweld or something equally as bad?
[14:52:21] <Computer_barf> ok so i can bug pcw less, can you guys suggest how might i determine the ferror , min ferror for my machine? do I look up my steppers or driver specs?
[14:52:24] <XXCoder1> unfy: use truck only for hauling and keep it?
[14:53:19] <PCW> Computer_barf: what are they currently?
[14:53:47] <Computer_barf> FERROR = .0002
[14:53:47] <Computer_barf> MIN_FERROR = .0001
[14:54:01] <Computer_barf> well , at least for the first axis
[14:54:39] <Computer_barf> yes their all set to that
[14:56:39] <unfy> conklin dike - radiator / coolant leak stuff. there's a leak from the timing chain cover which calls for 10-11hrs of labor to replace. truck aint worth that, soooo...
[14:57:39] <unfy> xxcoder: thinking about it. if stays sealed for a while it might be worth keeping it as such... that way can easily continue to work on cnc stuff <3
[14:58:30] <Computer_barf> I've hauled mdf on top of a smart car
[14:58:53] <XXCoder1> unfy: alternate is find a nice ecocar with ability to tow stuff
[14:58:59] <unfy> yeah, i'd look into some kind of roof racks or something, even if they're the strap-through-windows kind heh
[14:59:26] <unfy> econo car with a trailor hitch. giggling to myself :D
[14:59:34] <Computer_barf> I built a custom roof rack for the smart car, i did alot of crazy things with it
[14:59:42] <XXCoder1> unfy: yeah but it does exist
[15:00:18] <XXCoder1> Computer_barf: saw a pic of a vw beetle that was converted to truck
[15:00:19] <XXCoder1> crazy.
[15:00:48] <PCW> Computer_barf try setting them 10 times higher to start
[15:00:57] <Computer_barf> k
[15:03:09] <Computer_barf> same deal , joint 2 following error
[15:05:31] <Computer_barf> going to look up my drivers for step/dir timings, acceleration, velocity limits
[15:05:51] <PCW> when you jog X? thats weird
[15:06:15] <Computer_barf> z
[15:06:24] <Computer_barf> it clicks on x too
[15:07:01] <Computer_barf> but yes just checked , joint 0 on x
[15:07:08] <PCW> OK, other than ferror, did you change any settings in the hal or ini files?
[15:07:17] <Computer_barf> just the ip address
[15:08:04] <PCW> hmm where did you get that file? (my example has a 10.10.10.10 IP address)
[15:08:30] <Computer_barf> from the linuxcnc forums
[15:09:24] <Computer_barf> something you had posted pertaining to the 7i76e, perhaps its not current
[15:10:07] <Computer_barf> my drivers are kl-5056D,kl-8070D
[15:10:48] <PCW> i would not worry about the drivers yet
[15:11:49] <Computer_barf> if you point me to a diffrent file I would be happy to give it a shot
[15:13:37] <PCW> I would run the latency-test
[15:14:14] <PCW> or perhaps latency-histogram
[15:14:47] <Computer_barf> i previously rand it and got 14060516 on the top bold number
[15:15:07] <Computer_barf> and 15057284 on the bottom bold number
[15:15:37] <Computer_barf> sorry i believe I also change that in the .ini
[15:15:53] <PCW> well 15 ms of latency is not going to work at a 1KHs thread
[15:16:03] <_methods> lol
[15:16:51] <Computer_barf> is my machine operating at an unusually large latency? i don't have a reference point from any previous experience
[15:17:24] <PCW> I suspect you are not running a preemt RT kernel
[15:17:57] <Computer_barf> that's strange i did the whole kernel compiling process
[15:19:06] <Computer_barf> i compiled three diffrent ones , i could try rebooting and trying some of the others
[15:19:31] <_methods> why don't you just use one of the regular images?
[15:19:51] <_methods> you're adding unnecessary complexity to an already complex process
[15:20:33] <Computer_barf> someone had told me to , i don't recall the reason, something wasn't working with the one I had
[15:20:52] <Computer_barf> i definantly didn't WANT to compile a kernel
[15:21:31] <Computer_barf> i think it had something to do with the eth requirement
[15:21:50] <_methods> i think all you needed to do was update your apt source list
[15:22:07] <Computer_barf> i did
[15:22:09] <_methods> PCW: 2.7 works with the 7i76e right?
[15:22:10] <PCW> if you compiled a kernel and you are running the compiled kernel, you probably did not set the preemt-rt config options
[15:22:39] <_methods> or do you need master?
[15:22:59] <Computer_barf> PCW: when i got to the kernel compile, I did the "fully premptable" option
[15:23:23] <PCW> yes. 2.7 is ok but the 3.2 rt kernel that comes with wheezy is dismal
[15:23:32] <_methods> ah
[15:23:53] <PCW> what does
[15:23:55] <PCW> uname -a
[15:23:57] <PCW> print?
[15:24:19] <Computer_barf> 3.18.11-rt7 #1 SMP PREEMPT Wed Apr 29 07:58:53 EDT 2015 i686 GNU/Linux
[15:25:58] <Computer_barf> i could reboot and try some of the other kernel compile attempts
[15:26:02] <PCW> well that's the right kernel but if you have 15 ms latencies, i'll bet the preemt_full option was not set
[15:26:13] <Computer_barf> i know it offered more than one option in the config that said premptive
[15:27:02] <Computer_barf> let me reboot and see if any of the other kernels are faster
[15:27:10] <Computer_barf> brb
[15:30:16] <Deejay> namd
[15:32:03] <Computer_barf> ok it looks like i only have one other kernel there so i think older ones were being overwritten, and the second oldest one didn't boot. If my memory serves me correctly, i believe on the second kernel compilation attempt i went with the "fully prempable" option
[15:32:16] <Computer_barf> and the most recent attempt I did something else with the words premptable in it
[15:32:28] <Computer_barf> so i suspect that PCW is right and that my current kernel is not fully premptable
[15:32:50] <Computer_barf> and that probably means this is gonna take a bit, knowing how long it takes to compile the kernel on this machine
[15:33:35] <PCW> you can try my config file also if you like
[15:33:53] <Computer_barf> sure, where might I find it?
[15:34:38] <Computer_barf> and by config file do you mean a config file for the kernel or a .ini for linuxcnc?
[15:37:05] <PCW> no, kernel config file
[15:37:30] <_methods> i'd like to take a look at that too
[15:37:37] <PCW> freeby.mesanet.com/rtconfig
[15:37:45] <_methods> if i'm going to go with a 7i76e and 7i77
[15:37:48] <_methods> thx
[15:39:07] <Computer_barf> methods: if you like when i get there I can give you my notes on the proceedures I used in accordance to pcw's advise
[15:39:14] <_methods> i'd love that
[15:39:27] <_methods> especially since i guess i'll be going through the same thing
[15:39:34] <Computer_barf> he's given me a bunch of links and such
[15:39:49] <_methods> might be less hassle to just do the 5i25/7i76/7i77 though
[15:42:28] <Computer_barf> i believe i probably need to give this text file a specific name for the compile procedure to recognize it
[15:43:15] <Computer_barf> probably replace the .config with it, right?
[15:43:38] <PCW> yes you need to copy it to .config
[15:43:54] <PCW> in the linux-3.18.11 directory
[15:44:16] <Computer_barf> k yes that's where im at
[15:46:05] <_methods> heheh preempt_lazy
[15:46:10] <_methods> sign me up
[15:47:43] <_methods> PCW: so what's the issue with 3.2?
[15:51:30] <PCW> lousy performance, poor support of newer hardware
[15:52:32] <_methods> oh well that's nice lol
[15:52:44] <_methods> so much for improving forward hehe
[15:53:28] <PCW> Its really not that hard to make a Preemt-rt kernel and 3.2 is ancient
[15:53:56] <_methods> what what kernel are you recommending?
[15:54:02] <_methods> 3.18?
[15:55:18] <PCW> yeah (3.2 is from 2012)
[15:56:39] <_methods> so is 4.x supported in RT?
[16:01:14] <PCW> not yet (3.18.11-rt7 is the latest)
[16:02:03] <Computer_barf> _methods:
http://pastebin.com/LrWJNcKF
[16:02:22] <Computer_barf> i mostly just made commentary on what PCW gave me
[16:03:14] <Computer_barf> line 14 should be skipped
[16:05:08] <Computer_barf> ill report on how my kernel compile goes when i get there, knowing how long it takes, im gonna go to the pool
[16:06:09] <PCW> yeah that config enables every single driver known to man
[16:06:41] <Crom> and woman, child, and idiot
[16:11:36] <Crom> just started the pastebin commands
[16:12:01] <Crom> 3.2 is older, 1.3.68 is old
[16:12:25] <andypugh> _methods: I have lost the scrollback.. Were you looking at Harrison Horizontal mills?
[16:16:55] <Crom> hmm P4 is 32bit
[16:27:12] <MrFluffy> i finally have the scaler, the gearchange and step directions etc all configured in hal and the bridgeport spindle within 10rpm or so of the S speed from 20rpm to 3000, not sure if pleased I managed it, or displeased it took me so long to figure it out. Now all I need to do is figure out a way for the gui to tell me I am in the wrong gear when I request a S value outside the range of the current gear...
[16:29:45] <MrFluffy> ufny: if you put rad sealer in, it sometimes blocks the small tubes in the radiator long term and causes odd overheating issues... 10hrs work to replace...wow.
[16:35:12] <Crom> hmmm time to find a better mother board for this machine... 2004ish socket 478 MB with a Family 15 model 3 P4 2.8Ghz
[16:38:05] <andypugh> Well, isn’t that annoying. My short little indexable end-mill takes LPKT inserts, and everybody else seems to use APKT.
[16:38:19] <andypugh> LPKT080304 seem super-rare
[16:44:11] <MrFluffy> This guy had a few & relisted 3 times, but he hasnt put them back on yet, might be worth a cheeky message if they are of use to you?
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/3-X-LPKT-007-080304-29-ASC-350-LATHE-TOOL-INSERT-R2-/111657298177?
[16:45:00] <andypugh> It says “you bought5 this item” :-)
[16:45:05] <MrFluffy> Or,
http://www.ebay.fr/itm/Glendower-Carbide-Insert-LPKT-080304-PVD-9-Inserts-Only-/400896254899?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_3&hash=item5d574763b3
[16:45:15] <MrFluffy> you havent bought them yet :)
[16:45:41] <MrFluffy> 9 inserts for 35 quid, not a bad deal
[16:45:42] <andypugh> No, but thats £35! I need to get at least half way through the bottle of wine :-)
[16:48:34] <MrFluffy> I stay off ebay after alcohol. Some of my most unadvised purchases have been made under the influence of vodka...
[16:48:42] <MrFluffy> ill advised even
[16:48:57] <MrFluffy> oh look a cheap pcmm, Im sure I can make it work...
[16:49:25] <MrFluffy> cue months long voyage of discovery into the proprietory locked up world of hexagon metrology products...
[16:49:35] <XXCoder1> lol
[16:49:37] <Deejay> gn8
[16:50:02] <XXCoder1> glad that wont happen to me anytime soon.
[16:50:10] <XXCoder1> plenty other stupid ways though lol
[16:50:24] <MrFluffy> I got it working, but lifes too short for that sort of adventure
[16:50:44] <MrFluffy> even now its not accurate, because it needs going in a jig and setting up, and now they dont service older arms
[16:54:33] <MrFluffy> Hexagon told me on the phone when I called support for something that helping me would be like giving an addict more crack.
[16:55:06] <MrFluffy> Ive never actually been compared to a junkie before by a vendor...
[16:55:26] <XXCoder1> lol
[16:55:45] <XXCoder1> thats nice excuse to screw you over on support
[16:56:15] <MrFluffy> there is no support now for the older serial based arms, their recommendation is to skip them and buy a newer one
[16:57:37] <MrFluffy> I happen to know a large manufacturer in the uk had to take all their romer pcmm arms out of service and replace them because they refused to calibrate them as they were declared obsolete. And the configs are locked up with a password known only to hexagon. Unless you have time and IDA, but we wont discuss that.
[16:58:26] <MrFluffy> and this... this right here is why linuxcnc is brilliant.
[17:03:44] <XXCoder1> jeez
[17:03:56] <XXCoder1> yeah glad goverment started it
[17:40:00] <_methods> yeah those arms are a nightmare
[17:40:18] <_methods> i used to have to deal with a romer and that other company that makes them
[17:40:21] <_methods> faro
[17:40:28] <_methods> the faro was even worse than the romer
[17:40:34] <_methods> at least romer used pcdmis
[17:42:15] <MrFluffy> not if you dont have a dongle that works, they refuse to replace broken dongles
[17:42:35] <_methods> romer/hexag0n?
[17:42:48] <MrFluffy> then your stuck with winRDS and intergrating it to rhino or similar. Why was the faro so bad? I hear they are less robust but more open
[17:42:59] <MrFluffy> yes, pcdmis is dongle hardlocked
[17:43:12] <MrFluffy> my arm came with TWO dongles originally, neither of which worked...
[17:43:13] <_methods> yeah the scales would break all the time and the software is total shit
[17:43:28] <MrFluffy> but then the arm didnt either, and it was missing the psu
[17:43:43] <MrFluffy> I actually found one of the 68000s floating round inside a arm section
[17:43:56] <_methods> faro=plastic trash
[17:44:19] <MrFluffy> I admire the hardware and design of this, but the proprietoryness of it is annoying
[17:44:30] <_methods> i'd take a romer over faro any day
[17:44:52] <MrFluffy> its laid out as a series of rs485 connected boards so the slip joints on the infinite series only transmit serial data thats acked and voltage
[17:45:03] <MrFluffy> no encoder wires, pretty neat design
[17:45:32] <_methods> and i'd take a real cmm over both any day lol
[17:45:46] <MrFluffy> but, winrds, they lock all the encoder offsets and other data thats flashed into the arm with a password and wont give it out
[17:46:02] <_methods> yeah they are extremely dickish
[17:46:13] <MrFluffy> the newer ones are rolling code inside too
[17:46:14] <_methods> i don't feel bad about pirating/hacking any cmm related stuff
[17:46:30] <_methods> they rape without remorse
[17:46:46] <MrFluffy> yes but you need a arm jig to reset one too
[17:47:06] <_methods> yeah i dn't think you can ballbar it
[17:47:53] <MrFluffy> I dont even have the length standard it should come with, I hope to get a friend to make two holes in a length of durabar to use and check it on his cmm
[17:48:46] <_methods> meh if i never see one of those arms again as long as i live i'll be happy
[17:49:00] <_methods> thing was a nightmare trying to get it to even remotely be repeatable
[17:49:06] <_methods> especially between operators
[17:49:19] <MrFluffy> yes its easy to flex the finger Ive noticed
[17:49:26] <MrFluffy> theres a technique for sure
[17:49:50] <_methods> yeah and techniques are like assholes, everyone has one and they all stink
[17:50:04] <MrFluffy> I have the 12ft reach model without the zero weight addon so its heavy on the shoulder too
[17:50:25] <_methods> yeah like fighting a drunk octopus
[17:50:34] <MrFluffy> but for what I want it for, taking bolt circles off engines and reverse engineering, setting up car chassis points etc, it should be ok
[17:50:49] <MrFluffy> I paid the broke price anyway, so Im not too sorry
[17:51:04] <_methods> well i went to the school there in charlotte
[17:51:18] <_methods> and they had a race car chassis there they were doing with the laser attachment
[17:51:23] <_methods> that seemed to work pretty well
[17:51:33] <MrFluffy> heh the perceptron probes
[17:51:38] <_methods> so if i was ever to get one again it would be with that laser scanner thing
[17:51:39] <MrFluffy> I know a bit about them too...
[17:51:44] <MrFluffy> far more than I want...
[17:51:49] <MrFluffy> I have 3, of the probe heads
[17:52:08] <MrFluffy> another ill advised ebay purchase. And perceptron are great as a company, really helpful
[17:52:09] <_methods> bill scott racing
[17:52:18] <_methods> tthey had the floor moving model
[17:52:32] <MrFluffy> except... Im missing the special interface with all the cpu logic in ... so I have 3 very nice laser head desktop ornaments
[17:52:38] <_methods> ouch
[17:52:54] <MrFluffy> and... thats what they were given out as. Pulled as obsolete from stores brand new, and given out to salesmen to give out as trinkets
[17:53:01] <MrFluffy> they traced my serials back for me.
[17:53:34] <_methods> that's dirty
[17:53:40] <MrFluffy> I cant fault them, completely different customer experience than romer/hexagon
[17:53:50] <MrFluffy> but, cest la vie as they say here
[17:54:06] <MrFluffy> I watch ebay for a interface module...
[17:54:35] <MrFluffy> I have a friend in the uk who has used them and he told me to go buy them as they were the business. Seems he didnt notice the big box halfway down the leads on his one...
[17:55:11] <MrFluffy> it connects with a X cable to the host pc running their software daemon
[17:55:18] <_methods> yeah
[17:55:23] <MrFluffy> because the romer serial network cant cope with the data rate
[17:55:30] <_methods> even when you have the legit one it barely works half the time lol
[17:55:49] <MrFluffy> the newer 7 axis arms went intergrated because they are networked internally to cope I think
[17:56:29] <_methods> i always dreamed of having a zeiss
[17:56:33] <_methods> one day lol
[17:56:35] <MrFluffy> I just had this vision of scanning curved objects with a funky laser scanner
[17:56:46] <XXCoder1> holy crap I can finally delete old addresses on paypal!
[17:56:53] <XXCoder1> its been YEARS
[17:56:57] <MrFluffy> I made the makerscanner , but I was very disappointed with it
[17:57:03] <_methods> but then i'll have to learn their calypso crap
[17:57:30] <MrFluffy> linuxcmm, it cant be that far from linuxcnc genetically :-)
[17:57:48] <_methods> i think there are
[17:58:00] <_methods> pretty sure PCW linked to it the other day
[17:58:03] <XXCoder1> MrFluffy: yeah
[17:58:06] <MrFluffy> a pcmm is a 6 axis robot with no motors
[17:58:42] <XXCoder1> MrFluffy: Much of code can be reused. just need to figure how to do some stuff
[17:58:55] <XXCoder1> we need "linus" for cnc stuff programming darn lol
[17:59:45] <MrFluffy> its come a long way, 3d printing is pushing lots of minds to thinking about it too
[18:00:16] <MrFluffy> I was impressed at slic3r and cura when I started tinkering with a printrbot
[18:03:28] <MrFluffy> I am just a bodger of things personally, so its easy for me to be impressed by stuff
[18:30:04] <Tecan> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ukGKVKa_XgE you guys wont believe this
[18:30:16] <Tecan> harring bone rack and pinion plates made out of stone
[18:32:43] <andypugh> I suspect that they are more likely to be actual herring bones made from stone.
[18:33:33] <andypugh> Why would I not believe that an ancient Bosnian could carve chevrons in a rock?
[18:33:51] <MrHindsight> http://www.thebiggesthoaxinhistory.com/en/
[18:34:40] <XXCoder1> MrHindsight: the real hoax? dvds. lol
[18:34:55] <andypugh> My favourite…
https://klimtlover.files.wordpress.com/2012/09/two-bison.jpg 10,000 BC and still there in a cave.
[18:37:25] <XXCoder1> andypugh:
http://chuckleaduck.com/comics-archive/2012-12-28OT174Venus.jpg heh
[18:37:27] <andypugh> If you are interested (and this involves watching a 45 minute TV programme) this shows how archeaologists can generally tell when they are being scammed.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j6QBFmIlaWs
[18:38:11] <MrFluffy> question, is there a way for the gearchange component to know a speed demanded by a S code is outside the range of the current gear?
[18:38:39] <andypugh> The gearchange component is actually fairly useless :-)
[18:39:04] <andypugh> How many gears do you have?
[18:39:10] <MrFluffy> Ive got it working to do high low on my bridgeport
[18:39:14] <MrFluffy> on the spindle
[18:39:40] <MrFluffy> but I want it to ask me to shift to low for below 250rpm, because the vfd would spin the motor too slow for my liking in high
[18:39:55] <andypugh> Ah, OK, it’s fine for 2 ratios. But can’t do any more. There have been at least 3 attempts to fix that that didn’t get mainstreamed
[18:40:28] <MrFluffy> right now, the S asks for 50rpm in high, it just sets it then gearchange hard limits itself to the lower speed configured for that gear in its hal config as far as I can see it
[18:40:48] <MrFluffy> the spindle is open loop
[18:41:50] <MrFluffy> ok, so your saying it doesnt do that, its not just a case that I havent read the right bit of some man page correctly...
[18:42:06] <andypugh> No, it doesn’t do very much
[18:42:10] <MrFluffy> i mean it cant work out that the rpm asked for is in another gear
[18:42:22] <MrFluffy> id have to do something clever in logic myself to do that
[18:42:27] <andypugh> Look at the comp code, it is very simple.
[18:43:00] <MrFluffy> ok, I will in time, right now I need to get everything else working better, I was just hoping for a quick win.
[18:43:02] <andypugh> What I would do, if I was a version of you with lots of spare time, is write a comp to automatically shift gear for me
[18:44:09] <MrFluffy> A sort of if below min rpm for that gear, check other gears see if the S is in their range then prompt to shift to that, but in code logic. Ok, for the future though. Time is a bit short supply
[18:44:50] <MrFluffy> I think I want to get a bigger machine when I get the barn done, something with a carousel toolchanger and more rigidity, so trying to learn stuff on this little interact.
[18:46:11] <andypugh> I wrote a new component this week that pokes HAL pins in sequence, and does waiting for results. Could be used to cut the VFD, plonk switch gears with a pneumatic cylinder, then re-engage the VFD
[18:46:52] <andypugh> I have not heard the phrase “Little Interact” before :-)
[18:46:58] <MrFluffy> I kind of like to shift it by hand, I feel reassured when I feel it clonk into engagement on the dog teeth, but yes.
[18:47:07] <MrFluffy> The series1 interact is half the size of the later ones, it is little
[18:47:08] <andypugh> My Harrision is small, my Mini Mill is Little
[18:47:33] <MrFluffy> its got less travel on the table than my little universal mill
[18:47:35] <andypugh> I want a Huron. They are such a solid design.
[18:47:53] <MrFluffy> manual is a Arno, thats pretty robust and 40iso in the taper
[18:48:10] <andypugh> http://www.cottandco.com/media/lot/4f8973ed6ef2348597b7e017cc4e1fd26d5d782b.jpg
[18:48:44] <MrFluffy> look at the cylinders at the front to stop table sag... I bet it needs them.
[18:49:59] <andypugh> I like the way that the Y is on the ram (like Deckels) so there isn’t a 3-way stack-up of slop
[18:50:23] <zeeshan> hi
[18:50:37] <andypugh> And that universal head is lovely. You can point the tool in almost any direction
[18:50:58] <zeeshan> andypugh: problem with Y ram thing is
[18:51:01] <zeeshan> you cant adjust knob
[18:51:03] <zeeshan> *knod
[18:51:14] <zeeshan> at least i dont know how to :P
[18:51:20] <MrFluffy> shims :)
[18:51:21] <andypugh> nod?
[18:51:49] <andypugh> No, you need to trust the machine to be made right.
[18:51:50] <zeeshan> rotation about X axis
[18:52:37] <andypugh> The Huron head can point the tool any outwards angle. But not inwards
[18:53:02] <zeeshan> hm
[18:53:04] <MrFluffy> You would need encoders on both the axis and the kinematics programming into the control
[18:53:16] <andypugh> They are not automated
[18:53:39] <MrFluffy> I thought you meant to convert one to cnc ultimately
[18:53:53] <zeeshan> MrFluffy: i have a speed shifting python script that a linuxcnc user wrote
[18:53:55] <zeeshan> for his maho
[18:54:00] <zeeshan> theres 18 gear selections
[18:54:05] <andypugh> But I have been thinking about making my mill into a virtual 5-axis. I could jog the B to where I put it with spanners, then feed in W
[18:54:10] <zeeshan> maybe it might be of benefit
[18:54:30] <MrFluffy> do you have a link to it zeeshan?
[18:54:39] <zeeshan> i can upload
[18:54:41] <MrFluffy> Im always interested in learning even if I dont implement it yet
[18:54:53] <andypugh> I wrote a setup for my Harrison (with standard components) that just works out for itself what gear I put it in.
[18:55:21] <MrFluffy> Ill have to add a spindle encoder for that first, yes I built a vfd controlled head and didnt add a encoder...
[18:55:28] <MrFluffy> shoot me now
[18:55:55] <MrFluffy> I just needed to get it working asap at the time
[18:56:11] <zeeshan> https://www.dropbox.com/s/wt7wp7mj7cd275z/mahoshifter.py?dl=0
[18:57:20] <MrFluffy> thats very nice, speeds in an array and logic to select
[18:57:26] <zeeshan> http://www.kijiji.ca/v-tool-other/oakville-halton-region/micrometer-set-mitutoyo-0-300mm/1066175339?enableSearchNavigationFlag=true
[18:57:35] <zeeshan> do you guys think this is worth it for $125
[18:57:52] <andypugh> MrFluffy:
http://linuxcnc.org/dapper/emc2/emc2/index.php/italian/forum/47-hal-examples/27071-automatic-spindle-gear-detection
[18:57:55] <MrFluffy> I could wire the motor up for its internal second speed (its a two speed motor butchered by someone into single speed) and have four gears..
[18:57:56] <zeeshan> i have mics upto 12" in inches already
[18:58:01] <zeeshan> but not in metric :P
[18:58:16] <andypugh> zeeshan: Hell yes
[18:58:37] <zeeshan> i dunno what i'd do wit hthem lol
[18:59:08] <andypugh> Though it depends if you need that $125 for food
[18:59:19] <zeeshan> i need that 125 for cat40 holders :(
[18:59:25] <MrFluffy> rice is cheap
[18:59:38] <zeeshan> i could buy 2 shell mill holders for that
[19:00:00] <MrFluffy> so are cat40 holders if you pick them up secondhand when they come up cheap...
[19:00:15] <zeeshan> yea dude i bought some a while ago so cheap
[19:00:23] <zeeshan> they are all made in usa too!
[19:00:31] <zeeshan> but all the shell mill adapters are sizes i dont need
[19:00:39] <zeeshan> like 1.25" 1"
[19:00:42] <zeeshan> i need .75"
[19:00:46] <MrFluffy> I use clarkeson autolock chucks, they kind of spoilt me
[19:01:06] <zeeshan> cat40?
[19:01:09] <MrFluffy> and I can thread the thread for the biggest size in my harrison
[19:01:20] <MrFluffy> yes, I have 40 taper in my manual mill
[19:01:27] <zeeshan> iso40 or cat40
[19:01:28] <zeeshan> or bt40
[19:01:40] <MrFluffy> the difference is in the drawbar I have to pick up :)
[19:01:48] <MrFluffy> the taper is all the same
[19:01:57] <MrFluffy> I just have 3 drawbars to cover them all
[19:02:31] <MrFluffy> its different if you need pullstuds etc for a autochanger, but this is a old manual
[19:03:25] <andypugh> MrFluffy: An alternative gearchange comp. I think it is better. It disapppoints me that it didn’t become the mainline comp
http://thread.gmane.org/gmane.linux.distributions.emc.devel/4043/focus=4238
[19:03:37] <MrFluffy> I have a 200mm fly cutter with a insert in the largest autolock shank fitting I made for it, its great for cylinder heads.
[19:04:06] <andypugh> That one has an output to say you are in the wrong gear,
[19:04:11] <MrFluffy> autolocks tighten up if they dig in and it forces the tool into a taper inside which keeps it all taut and locked up.
[19:04:57] <andypugh> MrFluffy: And sometimes rams the cutter so hard into the collet that they are joined for life.
[19:06:07] <MrFluffy> Andy, Ive had to use a very large spanner, but they always come out in the end.
[19:06:25] <MrFluffy> I have a bit of scaff tube that slips over my big clarkeson wrench :)
[19:06:58] <MrFluffy> They never fall out though if something comes loose, they just self tighten
[19:11:32] <zeeshan> well with iso40
[19:11:36] <zeeshan> there is an extended nub
[19:11:43] <zeeshan> that wont work with my machine
[19:13:47] <andypugh> MrFluffy: You can get the collet out the holder. You can’t always get the cutter out of the collet. Mainly if the thread on the cutter is short or the point in the holder is worn (or missing, as I have seen once)
[19:14:54] <andypugh> In the latter case the cutter did’t screw in and close the collet, it screwed in hard against the ends of the threads and still wobbled.
[19:15:19] <zeeshan> andypugh: whats your experience with using big end mills with collets?
[19:15:34] <andypugh> I don’t tend to.
[19:15:41] <zeeshan> at what size do you stop?
[19:15:55] <andypugh> Well, I guess that depends on what you mean by “big”
[19:16:04] <zeeshan> 3/4" and bigger
[19:16:04] <MrFluffy> Ive had a couple bottom out, thats caused mostly by not setting the gap between the body and clamp nut correctly in my limited personal experience
[19:16:13] <andypugh> I don’t have any collets bigger than 20mm
[19:16:37] <zeeshan> MrFluffy: by bottom out youre saying having them pull out?
[19:16:44] <andypugh> I have a nice big shell mill, but that is on a proper arbour.
[19:17:05] <MrFluffy> no andy was saying about the tools bottoming out in the collet thread, the autolock the tooling threads into the collets
[19:17:21] <MrFluffy> then a front piece forces the lot onto a taper inside the body of the chuck
[19:17:35] <zeeshan> ah
[19:17:46] <zeeshan> that is what those weird threaded end mills are for :D
[19:18:07] <MrFluffy> yes, I like them a lot personally, but its a marmite thing I think.
[19:18:15] <zeeshan> i should send you the one i have
[19:18:17] <zeeshan> that ill never use.
[19:18:19] <andypugh> My favourite mill has turned out to be a really short 20mm indexable cutter, and that is Weldon shank. I only bought it because it was cheap, but actually despite only beng 26mm long it is exceptionally useful and very stiff.
[19:19:27] <andypugh> I “get” autolock. I appreciate the cleverness. I have seen them fail a lot where people don’t understand them
[19:19:34] <MrFluffy> I had some fc series and they always seemed to run off slightly, but the qc30 I have is the first weldons I owned
[19:19:36] <SpeedEvil> Is marmite a threadlock or an anti-seize?
[19:19:50] <MrFluffy> either, its better than eating the stuff :)
[19:20:08] <andypugh> Marmite is lovely :-)
[19:20:56] <zeeshan> i think i fucked up my indexable end mills
[19:20:57] <zeeshan> :(
[19:20:59] <MrFluffy> I bought a iso50 autolock holder by accident once, and I still have nightmares about the size of machine that must have been fitted to.
[19:21:12] <MrFluffy> I wondered why the shipping was so high, then it arrived...
[19:21:26] <andypugh> Who had the interact?
[19:21:39] <andypugh> http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/mill-toolholder-chuck-milling-lathe-cutter-cnc-joblot-Bridgeport-Interact-Bnib-/191570765568?_trksid=p2141725.m3641.l6368
[19:21:42] <SpeedEvil> http://www.dansdata.com/goop.htm Oh - I thought this used marmite, but it is an inferior clone.
[19:22:21] <SpeedEvil> 'when the toolholder is bigger than your lathe'
[19:22:24] <zeeshan> nice andypugh
[19:22:40] <MrFluffy> theyre bt40, my interact is qc30 :(
[19:22:52] <zeeshan> http://c1.staticflickr.com/9/8656/16666114501_0cb7f73d42_h.jpg
[19:22:59] <zeeshan> do you think i f'ed up my indexable end mill
[19:23:02] <zeeshan> when i was doing a while back
[19:23:10] <zeeshan> i think i shoulda done it weld on style.
[19:23:17] <zeeshan> not completely like that..
[19:23:28] <MrFluffy> I thought the auction was going to be for some of those chinese clone qc30 holders that dont fit properly and was all excited for a moment
[19:23:34] <zeeshan> i currently have that in an end mill holder with 2 set screws
[19:24:57] <andypugh> MrFluffy: Ah, sorry.
[19:25:17] <zeeshan> answer me!!! :P
[19:25:39] <zeeshan> think they'll pull out?
[19:26:54] <andypugh> zeeshan: I wouldn’t be using the Vee-block saddle there, I would be using another T-slot clamp
[19:27:11] <zeeshan> andypugh: lol it was a really crappy way of holding it
[19:30:02] <zeeshan> http://i.imgur.com/7jWZQoS.jpg
[19:30:06] <zeeshan> i wonder if this is worth any money
[19:30:12] <Computer_barf> looks like I am nearing the completion of another attempt at building the kernel
[19:31:37] <Computer_barf> yep, done. rebooting and brb
[19:37:55] <Computer_barf> hmm still joint 2 following error
[19:38:00] <andypugh> MrFluffy: Would it be impolite to glat about the set of BT30 holders I giot for £80 ?
https://picasaweb.google.com/108164504656404380542/HarrisonMill?noredirect=1#5901893704893194114
[19:38:10] <andypugh> (gloat)
[19:38:21] * zeeshan is jealous of your collection
[19:38:37] <zeeshan> mine is smaller ;[
[19:39:12] <MrFluffy> Nah im good, I got 30 with the machine as a sweetener, they just needed tickling to get them to fit first.
http://gallery.pipandphil.com/d/38768-1/toolholders_processed.jpg
[19:39:39] <zeeshan> most of my tool holders are excessive in the wrong form
[19:39:46] <zeeshan> like i have 4 mt3 cat40 holders
[19:39:55] <MrFluffy> its collets that drive me potty, I think I have 9 different types now
[19:40:04] <zeeshan> 3 jt6 (like do you really need that many drill chucks?!?)
[19:40:14] <zeeshan> rest are tg100 or er32 or em holders
[19:40:30] <zeeshan> and the 3 shell mill holders im try8ing to put on ebay right now
[19:40:43] <Computer_barf> although my latency test seems to be coming in much better 17180 so far
[19:40:47] <andypugh> My machine was 30INT from the factory. I converted to BT30 for the power drawbar. Then that set of holders was SK30 so I shortned one drive dog, so it is now a universal BT30 / SK30 spindle.
[19:41:22] <andypugh> Computer_barf: 17180 is fine. Move on.
[19:41:34] <MrFluffy> iso40->harrison screwed nose fitting adaptor, that should make you wince...
http://gallery.pipandphil.com/d/38770-1/bt40_adapter8.jpg
[19:41:55] <Computer_barf> yes i think i need to update the ini to reflect the new numbers
[19:42:10] <Computer_barf> before it was 14060516
[19:42:43] <Computer_barf> so it appears RT-prempt being compiled correctly made a diffrence
[19:42:56] <_methods> hehe
[19:43:12] <_methods> that's much better
[19:44:38] <MrFluffy> it seemed like a good idea at the time to mount a 4 jaw on the mill and use it to grab a lathe tool for a late night get out of jail job, but Ive used it lots of times since for really stupid things.
[19:44:43] <andypugh> MrFluffy: Not wincing, but drive dogs would have been nice
[19:45:03] <MrFluffy> yes thats just on the bench for checking fit with the blue in the pic
[19:46:00] <andypugh> I abuse my mill fairly often. That very slow instoppable rotation in the lowest gear is just so useful:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=thtDRjgbxRE
[19:46:37] <zeeshan> LOL
[19:46:41] <zeeshan> that is pure abuse dude
[19:46:43] <MrFluffy> If you added a second roller, you have a ring roller setup
[19:46:50] <zeeshan> get yourself a proper roller!
[19:46:56] <MrFluffy> I always wondered about doing that, with Z to control the radius of the ring
[19:47:24] <andypugh> Is this better or worse?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0rwoD2vZUl0
[19:47:59] <zeeshan> that's not as bad id think :P
[19:48:32] <zeeshan> is that a cast iron pulley
[19:48:33] <MrFluffy> if you had a faceplate on a 30 shank, thatd be civilized
[19:48:50] <andypugh> Yes, cast iron pulley for the Rivett
[19:49:28] <zeeshan> its so funny youre running a lathe program on it :)
[19:49:50] <andypugh> It’s all just numbers to LinuxCNC
[19:49:55] <zeeshan> yes
[19:50:05] <zeeshan> that is a bookmarked video to show others
[19:50:15] <MrFluffy> tony griffiths purveyer of fine custom belts to the masses eh
[19:50:17] <zeeshan> ill show it to the students next year in the machine shop course
[19:50:17] <zeeshan> haha
[19:51:15] <andypugh> and creator of the best web site in the world
[19:51:52] <andypugh> I read every article in that site, and now I just need to read the updates
[19:51:53] <MrFluffy> I have a 40 taper press tool somewhere that I made when I got a bit carried away...
[19:51:54] <MrFluffy> http://gallery.pipandphil.com/d/38773-1/press_chuck4.jpg
[19:52:07] <MrFluffy> Yes, indeed everyone loves lathes.co.uk
[19:52:15] <zeeshan> what is the purpose of that
[19:52:37] <MrFluffy> I stamp 40 taper shaped holes into metal shelves for tool storage...
http://gallery.pipandphil.com/d/38776-1/press_chuck5.jpg
[19:52:44] <zeeshan> ROFL
[19:52:45] <zeeshan> nice.
[19:53:18] <furrywolf> any ideas how to grease the linear bearings on a bosch sliding compound miter saw? liberally greasing the rails and running it back and forth has not been successful, but I see no access, nor do I even know what's in them.
[19:53:34] <andypugh> MrFluffy: Abuse of Mill _and_ QMax cutter:
https://picasaweb.google.com/108164504656404380542/CNCUnsorted?noredirect=1#5678684612017184674
[19:53:54] <zeeshan> is that a knock out punch
[19:53:54] <zeeshan> lol
[19:54:19] <andypugh> I had a _lot_ of holes to make.
[19:54:25] <MrFluffy> I abused my lathe with a rotary broach in it, does that count?
[19:54:27] <MrFluffy> it was homemade...
[19:54:30] <furrywolf> lol
[19:54:51] <furrywolf> my mill wouldn't have nearly the strength to work a knockout punch.
[19:54:53] <zeeshan> im just trying to calculate the loads in my head
[19:55:02] <zeeshan> that looks like 1.25" diameter..
[19:55:19] <furrywolf> does anyone here NOT own one of those chinese holddown sets?
[19:55:26] <andypugh> The holes were the first stahe in making
https://picasaweb.google.com/108164504656404380542/CNCUnsorted?noredirect=1#5681316089753717346
[19:55:31] <zeeshan> assuming you were punching out steel sheet, those forces are prolly a bit more than drilling a large ass hole
[19:56:03] <andypugh> Transformer steel is fairly soft at least
[19:57:15] <furrywolf> I have a hydraulic knockout punch. it has to work hard. you were either cutting very soft metal, or you have a very strong mill.
[19:58:07] <zeeshan> you can estimate the force as: diameter of hole
[19:58:18] <andypugh> A bit of both. It’s a 750W servo on the Z
[19:58:18] <zeeshan> * thickness of material
[19:58:31] <zeeshan> and use the ultimate tensile strength of the material to get an idea of force
[19:58:34] <zeeshan> i dont think its a lot
[19:59:20] <andypugh> It didn’t feel particulary evil when I was doing it.
[20:01:14] <MrFluffy> did you ask the mill though? :)
[20:01:17] <Computer_barf> ok just got first movement from the mill
[20:01:29] <andypugh> Great
[20:01:41] <Computer_barf> the z axis went down when I told it to go up
[20:01:47] <andypugh> Was it the right direction? (that’s a 50:50 gamble)
[20:01:49] <Computer_barf> when i told it to go up, it did not go
[20:02:17] <andypugh> Could be step and direction switched
[20:02:19] <furrywolf> how about estimating it this way: the cylinder on my punch is, at a complete random guess (it's not handy), about 2" diameter. the pump is about 1/4" diameter. that's 64 times force multiplication. it has about a 18" lever, which moves the pump about 3/4" for about 12" of movement. that's about another 16 times. that's about 1024 times force multiplication. I push about 25 lbs on it. that's about 25000lbs at the punch.
[20:02:27] <zeeshan> F = shear stress * A = [(1/sqrt(3))(63800)]*[pi*1.5*.065] = 11282 lb force for a 1018 steel .065" thickness sheet, punching a 1.5" diameter hole.
[20:02:31] <zeeshan> to give you a feel for it
[20:02:40] <zeeshan> so i guess it is abuse
[20:02:50] <furrywolf> good, our estimates are similar. lol
[20:02:52] <zeeshan> thats way more force than you'd see even with drilling a 1.5" hole without a pilot
[20:03:02] <MrFluffy> rotary broaching setup, I had to machine a guide into the rear and use the tailstock to get enough force for it to work.
http://gallery.pipandphil.com/d/38779-1/wobblebroacha.jpg
[20:03:32] <furrywolf> now what kind of mill do you have that can exert tens of thousands of pounds of force with the spindle?
[20:03:36] <andypugh> zeeshan: What’s that 63800?
[20:03:44] <zeeshan> uts of steel
[20:03:59] <Computer_barf> andypugh: p,
[20:04:02] <Computer_barf> woops pm
[20:04:11] <zeeshan> 1/sqrt3 is getting the shear stress of the material
[20:04:21] <andypugh> Ah, OK. I can’t believe you still use those silly units.
[20:04:31] <zeeshan> andypugh: i use lb whenever i can
[20:04:37] <zeeshan> but N works too
[20:04:42] <zeeshan> just multiply by 4.48
[20:04:47] <zeeshan> thats one number i keep in my brain now
[20:05:34] <zeeshan> andypugh: all i know is your machine is crazy well built
[20:05:37] <zeeshan> :D
[20:06:06] <andypugh> The point is that that was a Q-max so it pierces two holes then progressively shears the rest. Normally they are operated by a 12mm bolt and a nit.
[20:06:29] <furrywolf> grrrr. my dewalt screwgun needs a small ring in the clutch assembly. dewalt only has a part number for the entire clutch, and wants more than the tool is worth for one.
[20:06:48] <andypugh> furrywolf: That is why we have lathes.
[20:07:05] <furrywolf> andypugh: normally they're operated by a big fucking hydraulic cylinder. the bolt ones are toys. :P
[20:07:19] <zeeshan> andypugh: im curious to know how that effects the force
[20:07:33] <zeeshan> i bet it drops it by like a factor of 4
[20:07:59] <MrFluffy> I made this up to use for punching in the mill, but not for steel
http://gallery.pipandphil.com/d/38165-1/dinker.jpg
[20:07:59] <zeeshan> its like opening a can all at once or using a can opener
[20:08:03] <andypugh> It does the same work but rather than being over a distance of the material thickness it is over a distance of 10mm
[20:08:09] <zeeshan> shit maybe it's even less less by a factor of 8
[20:08:11] <zeeshan> i dont have a feel for it
[20:08:34] <andypugh> I think a factor of 10 for 1mm material.
[20:09:19] <zeeshan> so in summary, it wasn't abuse of the mill
[20:09:36] <zeeshan> it was equivalent of drilling a .5" hole prolly without a pilot
[20:09:37] <zeeshan> :p
[20:09:59] <andypugh> Talking punches, these things are cool:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EU3SKaBFHIk
[20:10:14] <zeeshan> thats what we had at eaton
[20:10:21] <zeeshan> a different model, by same company though
[20:10:22] <_methods> yeah man those things are bad ass
[20:10:23] <MrFluffy> I know a guy who operates one of them
[20:10:28] <zeeshan> they are annoying as hell
[20:10:31] <_methods> trumpf 6060
[20:10:33] <zeeshan> cause they shake the whole ground when running
[20:10:38] <_methods> what a coincidence
[20:10:49] <furrywolf> http://www.machinedismantlers.org/East-Chicago-/Agricultural-and-Construiction-/Plants-/Greenlee-7306SB-type-hydraulic-knockout-punch-knock-out.shtml I have a punch similar to that one. The ones with bolts are for tin foil only. lol
[20:11:00] <zeeshan> furrywolf: those are expensive
[20:11:22] <furrywolf> that's a chinese knockoff. mine is Ensley.
[20:11:26] <zeeshan> you'd be suprised that they perfer punch turrets over laser cutting.
[20:11:42] <zeeshan> especially when you have a lot of holes, you get some serious distortion when laser cutting
[20:11:52] <furrywolf> note how many times that ad says greenlee, then only mentions in the fine print it's not greenly. that person should be killed as a benefit to classified ads.
[20:11:53] <zeeshan> you either have to slow down, or distribute the holes
[20:11:58] <zeeshan> either way is slower than using a punch turret
[20:12:50] <furrywolf> http://www.ebay.com/itm/Ensley-Rothenberger-5-8-2-Knockout-Punch-Dies-with-Pump-Hydraulic-Greenlee-/181497539936 there we go
[20:12:51] <zeeshan> fuck that video makes me want to build one
[20:13:08] <MrFluffy> the guy I know does battery boxes for bikes in his lunch break :)
[20:13:13] <furrywolf> same box as mine and everything
[20:13:23] <zeeshan> dude thsoe things can punch through .188" steel
[20:13:25] <zeeshan> like it is a joke
[20:13:51] <zeeshan> i made some reinforcement brackets for an overhead enclosure that weighed 4000lb
[20:13:55] <MrFluffy> I couldnt even afford the steel to make the tooling from myself
[20:14:40] <zeeshan> they had a lot of holes in them for mounting and the machine that made them had no prob
[20:15:14] <furrywolf> I have no idea how to fabricate this ring for my dewalt screwgun. it's about 1" diameter, .080 wide, and .080 thick. it's made of very brittle metal. I have several pieces of it. lol
[20:15:33] <zeeshan> lathe
[20:15:38] <MrFluffy> the windows operating system that can connect to your network. imagine your punch press getting a zero day...
[20:15:44] <furrywolf> (just random guesses; I haven't measured anything. and measuring the diameter will require measuring where it fits, as I don't have enough parts to assemble half a circle. lol)
[20:16:18] <furrywolf> I don't have enough lathe tooling to make useful things like that. specifically, I have no parting tool, and no ID-adjusting tooling of any kind...
[20:16:23] <MrFluffy> itll be windows embedded probably, which has been EOL for about 5 years now
[20:16:44] <MrFluffy> do you have a offhand grinder and a hss blank?
[20:17:11] <furrywolf> no
[20:17:49] * furrywolf has very little tooling or materials
[20:18:07] <zeeshan> sand paper
[20:18:10] <MrFluffy> do you have a dremel and some silver steel or something?
[20:18:26] <furrywolf> dremel, yes. no idea what silver steel is.
[20:18:42] <MrFluffy> its just a medium carbon steel you can harden easy
[20:18:43] <furrywolf> brb, I probably should measure it rather than guesstimating.
[20:19:51] <andypugh> “Silver Steel” is basically O1 tool steel in the form that the US calls Drill Rod.
[20:20:16] <andypugh> It’s nice stuff to work with, and easy to heat treat.
[20:20:27] <MrFluffy> yep, drill rod it is, or normal low carbon and some kasenite
[20:20:34] <MrFluffy> or just mild steel, its only got to last one job
[20:21:28] <_methods> man you can probably go to any machine shop and just ask for their old HSS
[20:21:32] <_methods> they'll give it away
[20:21:40] <_methods> we got boxes of it no one ever uses
[20:21:41] <MrFluffy> kasenite is probably illegal now due to the cynide in it
[20:21:58] <MrFluffy> I use hss a lot still because my old lathe has a very low top speed in modern terms
[20:22:07] <_methods> yea i use it at home
[20:22:13] <_methods> but at work inserts have killed hss
[20:22:27] <andypugh> Kasenite is carbon, I think, not HCN
[20:23:04] <MrFluffy> sodium ferrocyanide decahydrate apparently
[20:23:25] <MrFluffy> I know its hard to get now, I had to buy some from a seller in estonia and import it last time
[20:23:28] <_methods> that sounds tasty
[20:24:01] <MrFluffy> funny you should say that methods, its actually used in salt as a anti caking agent
[20:24:43] <_methods> see
[20:24:50] <_methods> i know a good thing when i hear it
[20:24:57] <MrFluffy> please dont eat mine though, I need it for future use
[20:25:01] <_methods> i guess cherry red works just as good
[20:25:15] <_methods> i've never used it we still have a ton of kasenit at the shop
[20:25:43] <_methods> whenever we run out of that i guess everyone will have the kinks worked out of the new stuff lol
[20:26:58] <zeeshan> man this butteryfly fucking plate
[20:27:03] <zeeshan> is actually more work than i thought
[20:28:27] <furrywolf> ok, measured. ring is .102 wide .078 thick, and the space it fits is .916 on the inside and 1.167 on the outside. it seems to be a loose fit when the parts are put in the space.
[20:28:55] <furrywolf> bah, I typoed my guesses. I guessed that it was .100 by .080, but typed .080 for both.
[20:29:34] * MrFluffy converts that to mm to make sense of it...
[20:29:44] <zeeshan> http://i.imgur.com/CDvya2u.png
[20:29:45] <MrFluffy> so, its a big washer
[20:29:46] <zeeshan> look at this plate
[20:29:51] <zeeshan> its a big annoyance
[20:30:00] <zeeshan> the 15 degree chamfer is different for the top vs the bottom.
[20:30:10] <zeeshan> im worried when i flip it, ill lose alignment.
[20:30:12] <furrywolf> the grease looks more like antiseize than grease from the amount of metal in it, so those measurements probably include a fair bit of wear. :)
[20:30:14] <zeeshan> cause those bolt holes aren't accurate.
[20:30:29] <furrywolf> MrFluffy: more of a bushing than a washer. it's too narrow and thick to be a washer.
[20:30:41] <zeeshan> and i dont have any shoulder m4 bolts.
[20:30:58] <furrywolf> sec, finding picture online.
[20:31:06] <Computer_barf> _methods: might you have an idea why i might be able to get my axis's to move in one direction but not the other?
[20:31:19] <furrywolf> http://www.mmtoolparts.com/store/media/catalog/product/cache/1/small_image/9df78eab33525d08d6e5fb8d27136e95/m/a/mar3_0056.jpg lower left
[20:31:30] <_methods> did you home your axis?
[20:31:32] <zeeshan> looks like a extra heavy washer :D
[20:31:45] <furrywolf> everyone only seems to sell that entire kit, not just the one ring, and they want more than the tool is worth for it.
[20:31:48] <PCW> miswired step/dir could do that
[20:31:49] <_methods> or are they unhomed still?
[20:32:01] <Computer_barf> _methods: no i've not done any homing
[20:32:14] <_methods> what pcw said
[20:32:17] <Computer_barf> PCW: i just redid the wires on the z axis and seems to be behaving the same way
[20:32:19] <_methods> double check your wiring
[20:32:21] <furrywolf> $27+shipping to fix my $5 screw gun? fuck no.
[20:32:50] <MrFluffy> could you bore a hole in a fixture to locate the butterfly in with two holes to secure it once its located on centre?
[20:33:05] <_methods> Computer_barf: you sure you got your pairs right?
[20:33:10] <furrywolf> I'm tempted to go find something at the local hardware store that can be cut to fit..
[20:33:11] <MrFluffy> wait, its not the same diameter when you flip if the angles change...
[20:33:12] <_methods> i'm assuming you're using steppers
[20:33:33] <_methods> seem to remember you mentioning stepconf
[20:33:55] <MrFluffy> furrywolf: thats what I do, Id find something near in the scrap bin and alter it to the job
[20:34:37] <furrywolf> unfortunately, every single hardware store here stocks the exact same Hillman garbage.
[20:34:40] <Computer_barf> pcw & _methods: I have step2- to the z axis pull- , step2+ to pull+, dir2- to dir- , dir2+ to dir+
[20:35:05] <Computer_barf> unless if step and pull are diffrent things i believe I have them right
[20:35:55] <PCW> check the stepgen output mode in the hal file
[20:36:20] <PCW> it may be set for quadrature
[20:38:13] <andypugh> PCW that would certianly do it, but how would that happen?
[20:38:32] <Computer_barf> i am using his config files
[20:39:16] <PCW> yeah make sure the output type is 0 for all axis
[20:39:29] <furrywolf> I'll hit up the local tool repair place on monday and see if they have a parts unit they can yank one out of.
[20:39:34] <MrFluffy> zeeshan: fixture it at an angle and cut the outer edge from one side as a parallel cylinder?
[20:39:41] <Computer_barf> http://pastebin.com/hSchBRMj
[20:39:54] <zeeshan> MrFluffy: i was gonna use a chamfer mill
[20:39:59] <zeeshan> er taper end mill
[20:40:25] <MrFluffy> how thick is it to matter?
[20:40:36] <zeeshan> this angle is pretty important
[20:40:38] <Computer_barf> step type? control type?
[20:40:41] <PCW> change setp hm2_[HOSTMOT2](BOARD).0.stepgen.00.step_type 1
[20:40:42] <PCW> to setp hm2_[HOSTMOT2](BOARD).0.stepgen.00.step_type 0
[20:40:44] <PCW> (and 01 and o2)
[20:40:45] <zeeshan> for sealing the butterfly against the throttle body port
[20:40:52] <MrFluffy> theyre normally only a mm or so thick. Yes its to break away from the walls quicker
[20:41:14] <MrFluffy> Ive made them in the past but I confess I just made up discs...
[20:42:19] <MrFluffy> they wont be in contact with the walls anyway as the idle screw will hold the butterfly open slightly
[20:43:31] <Computer_barf> PCW: i seem to have gone back to joint 2 following error
[20:44:04] <PCW> what did you change?
[20:44:25] <Computer_barf> wait i think i messed up
[20:44:59] <PCW> dont change the control type (it must be 1)
[20:45:05] <Computer_barf> yes thats what i did
[20:45:07] <Computer_barf> retrying
[20:45:56] <Computer_barf> FUCK YAH
[20:46:05] <zeeshan> MrFluffy: i got an idea.
[20:46:18] <Computer_barf> crash potential averted, mill head goes both ways now
[20:46:22] <zeeshan> i can make a quick fixture that has round protrusions that fit inside the holes of this butterfly
[20:46:28] <zeeshan> then ill just bolt it down to that register
[20:46:32] <zeeshan> :D
[20:46:39] <Computer_barf> PCW: very excited
[20:47:05] <PCW> (control type 1 is velocity mode)
[20:47:05] <furrywolf> http://www.ereplacementparts.com/ball-bushing-p-186757.html what do you do when you have one of those that's rusty and stuck? I can't even see how to get it out; must be pressed in.
[20:47:06] <PCW> step_type 0 = step/dir
[20:47:08] <PCW> step_type 1 = up/down CW/CCW
[20:47:09] <PCW> step_type 2 and > = Table driven
[20:47:57] <Computer_barf> my x axis is stuck but I believe thats probably mechanical
[20:48:01] <PCW> man hostmot2 for the meaning of all the hardware parameters
[20:48:08] <andypugh> furrywolf: Yes, they are pressed in.
[20:48:21] <andypugh> But that’s a mad price
[20:48:43] <furrywolf> yeah, that's just a random forum link. it's for a hitachi that's identical to my bosch. figure that one out!
[20:49:09] <PCW> also you must determine the max velocity and acceleration (so expect stalls until you get these set)
[20:49:17] <andypugh> furrywolf:
http://simplybearings.co.uk/shop/product_detail.php?products_id=152959&gclid=CJaji9DzocUCFUyWtAodpGMAwg
[20:49:26] <andypugh> Is that a less frightening price?
[20:49:30] <PCW> bbl dinner
[20:49:35] <Computer_barf> PCW: commentary logged to notes, at this point im going to slow down and read over all the stuff ive saved, i wrote down before about the velocity and accelleration settings.
[20:49:46] <MrFluffy> budget bearing, does that mean it comes pre worn out?
[20:49:56] <PCW> Well that was easy :-)
[20:50:45] <furrywolf> I can't find the specs for the one in my exact saw.
[20:50:55] <MrFluffy> I have some real world experience of simply bearings budget range, and er, it did.
[20:51:15] <andypugh> You probably need to press out the old one and measure
[20:52:15] <furrywolf> http://www.repairtoolparts.com/bosch-parts/bosch-5412l-parts/2-610-915-760-sliding-bearing found places selling it, but no specs
[20:53:34] <Crom> wee
[20:54:29] <Crom> link uptime is now 0 again... Router had 32 days of uptime on the link.
[20:54:32] <furrywolf> I don't want to spend money on it. how do I grease it without needing to take it apart? :)
[20:54:32] <furrywolf> I tried liberally greasing the rail and running it back and forth repeatedly, with only marginal success.
[20:55:02] <furrywolf> it randomly binds, and non-randomly leaves rusty streaks on the rail.
[20:55:16] <furrywolf> this in the saw that "works perfectly" according to the guy I bought it from. bleh.
[20:55:49] <Crom> what kinda saw? radial arm?
[20:56:21] <furrywolf> sliding compound miter saw
[20:56:59] <furrywolf> http://powerhousetoolparts.com/part-list/bosch/3915-0601475039/ note that diagram is incomplete - the top right corner that fades out has parts!
[20:57:25] <furrywolf> top left
[20:57:59] <Crom> ahhh on my 2 there is a plate I can take off and get the slide bearings out. but otherwise to clean them out I use brakefluid and a airnozzle with a rubber tip
[20:59:08] <furrywolf> the plates on mine seem to only hold the felts in place; the bearings seem pressed.
[20:59:15] <Crom> ugh direct drive
[20:59:55] <Crom> Mine's belt drive Rigid 12" and a crap Harbor Freight 10yr old 10" compound miter
[21:00:30] <furrywolf> got this one for $60 today... guy said it worked perfectly. not.
[21:00:55] <Crom> pull the felts back so you can see the opening into the bearing around the shaft. Blow brake fuild into there and bunch of air
[21:00:57] <furrywolf> I need one, and my old ryobi non-sliding seems to have been permanently borrowed, so bought this one...
[21:01:13] <furrywolf> yes, I have the felts pulled out. that's how I was getting grease in it...
[21:01:24] <furrywolf> there's almost no gap between the bearing and the rod. not blowing anything.
[21:01:58] <Crom> I had 0.025" gap on mine
[21:02:18] <Crom> which is why I say use the rubber tip
[21:02:35] <furrywolf> I guess since it's still leaving rusty streaks in the oil every time I run it in and out, it is slowly un-rusting itself... I probably should just work it back and forth more.
[21:02:51] <MrFluffy> diesel, that frees stuff out
[21:02:54] <furrywolf> I should go strap it to the mill and write a little loop to run it back and forth all day for me. :)
[21:03:03] <Crom> setup linuxcnc and a stepper heh
[21:03:41] <furrywolf> brb
[21:04:10] <Crom> diesel, kerosene, brakefluid. I like brakefluid better since it doesn't suck up water like keresene of diesel
[21:04:28] <MrFluffy> diesel cut with atf, works for me. I always worry about what brakefluid does to rubber and paintwork etc
[21:04:51] <MrFluffy> brakefluid is hydroscopic big time
[21:05:17] <Crom> brakefluid does nothing to rubber. Which is the reason it was invented. mineral oil disolved the rubber seals in the brake cyclinders
[21:05:35] <MrFluffy> thats why you have to change it as a service item, it absorbs moisture from the air
[21:06:10] <Crom> hmm Dot5 isn't
[21:06:57] <Crom> Rolls Royce uses mineral oil, since they use all Viton rubber in their brake systems
[21:07:07] <MrFluffy> fair enough, I dont have anything that takes sillicone fluid myself
[21:07:18] <MrFluffy> citroen uses lhm, but theyre just odd
[21:07:33] <Crom> they need it for the hdralics
[21:07:54] <MrFluffy> yes the same fluid for the suspension, power steering and brakes
[21:07:59] <Jymmm> Is an HP 54510A digital crt scope that might be overheating worth it?
[21:08:24] <Crom> Jymm YES! overheating can be fixed
[21:08:32] <zeeshan> silicone fluid seems pointless when you got dot5.1:D
[21:08:45] <Jymmm> Crom: It'ss THAT GOOD of a scope?
[21:09:18] <Jymmm> Crom: Smells liek something (pcb) is frying
[21:09:43] <Jymmm> Crom: went into power down mode after 5 minutes
[21:12:21] <Crom> 300mhz scope
[21:12:31] <Jymmm> 250MHz
[21:12:46] <Crom> oh year B is a 300
[21:13:29] <Jymmm> Crom: If it's something VERY simple, I cna solder in a new compntent, but not really beyond that.
[21:14:40] <MrFluffy> right gnite all
[21:15:02] <Crom> service manual
http://cp.literature.agilent.com/litweb/pdf/54510-90903.pdf
[21:15:11] <Jymmm> Crom: No schematics
[21:15:32] <Crom> well the hot area is gonna be dark
[21:15:45] <Jymmm> lol, ya think?
[21:16:04] <Jymmm> by the smell, it's gonna be BLACK and maybe even a crater
[21:16:23] <Jymmm> Crom: But is it THAT GOOD of a scope?
[21:18:50] <Crom> How much are they asking?
[21:19:14] <Crom> 5min shutdown I wouldn't pay over $20
[21:19:57] <Crom> once you fix it it'll be worth more to the right person. But I'd keep it until it died again
[21:20:22] <Jymmm> Crom: Well, I don't want to pay $1 and find out I need $100 in components
[21:20:59] <Crom> it's probably a PS problem... it's old enopugh it might need some new caps
[21:21:24] <Jymmm> ah
[21:21:48] <Crom> electrolidic caps do dry out
[21:22:08] <Jymmm> It had a nasty stench... smelled like PCB burning to me
[21:22:30] <Crom> so yeah probably a crater then
[21:22:30] <Jymmm> not the typical PVC overheat/meting smell
[21:23:34] <Crom> it's working so it should be pretty cheap to fix
[21:24:05] <Jymmm> well, it was before it went into shutdown
[21:24:26] <Jymmm> sorta, I never could get it to read a signal
[21:24:50] <Jymmm> the logic part worked and I could get thru menus
[21:25:15] <furrywolf> repeatedly greasing the rail and running it back and forth seems to be helping, slowly. unfortunately, to the neighbors it looks much more like I was humping it than fixing it. see, the best way to run it back and forth is to step on it with one foot, then get your thigh against the sliding part...
[21:26:16] <Jymmm> Crom: Oh well, maybe one of these years I'll finally get a scope =)
[21:27:05] <Jymmm> Crom: ty btw
[21:27:26] <Crom> scopes are nice. usb scopes are not too bad price wise
[21:27:29] <furrywolf> could be a failing cap, could be a lot of things...
[21:27:40] <furrywolf> usb scopes are just bad spec-wise. :)
[21:28:08] <furrywolf> I have a tektronix tds-210 and a 465b... happy with both of them.
[21:29:13] <Crom> I can get a usable signal out of one, which is what I require. It doesn't have to be a great scope it just has to be better than my 10khz heath kit scope
[21:29:37] <furrywolf> lol
[21:29:44] <furrywolf> both mine are 100mhz, one analog, one digital.
[21:30:04] <Crom> yeah 10,000 times fast than mine
[21:30:15] <Jymmm> recall notice...
http://www.tek.com/service/safety/tds210-tds220
[21:30:21] <furrywolf> I also have an incredibly cute tek pocket 'scope, but it doesn't work. makes burning smell and blows power fuse. haven't had time to diagnose it.
[21:30:58] <furrywolf> "ground connection"? you mean that prong that goes into the little grey adapter and doesn't come out the other side? :P
[21:33:44] <furrywolf> my serial number isn't in the range given
[21:34:09] <furrywolf> about 24,000 too new for the recall
[21:34:14] <Jymmm> bummer, no free calibration for you
[21:34:58] <zeeshan> furrywolf: did you figure out your washer
[21:35:37] <zeeshan> http://i.imgur.com/BBcRZYY.png
[21:35:40] <zeeshan> me luf mastercam!
[21:36:09] <zeeshan> its amazing how quick it can generate tool paths
[21:36:16] <furrywolf> I made no further effort on the washer, and instead went back to working on the chop saw.
[21:36:22] <zeeshan> furrywolf: haha
[21:36:27] <zeeshan> if thats a cast iron washer
[21:36:32] <zeeshan> you can prolly use a thrust washer.
[21:36:40] <zeeshan> that might exist in that size
[21:36:43] <furrywolf> yes, it's cast iron.
[21:37:12] <furrywolf> I'm not even sure what it does. it fits so loosely I'm not sure it does anything. that could just mean everything is so badly worn my measurements are useless.
[21:37:23] <zeeshan> haha
[21:37:28] <zeeshan> do you see wear on the shaft?
[21:37:31] <zeeshan> can you ffeel it with your finger nail
[21:37:52] <furrywolf> it's not on a shaft. it's on a forged part with no size reference near it.
[21:38:01] <LeelooMinai> zeeshan: Is that Mastercam thing expensive?
[21:39:08] <furrywolf> http://www.mmtoolparts.com/store/dewalt-clutch-asm-429634-00 shows the parts in detail,
http://www.mmtoolparts.com/store/media/diagram/files/dw274_2.png shows how they all go together. it's in the "31" assembly, in the middle of the parts in it.
[21:39:28] <zeeshan> furrywolf: which #
[21:39:28] <zeeshan> is it
[21:39:36] <zeeshan> in 31 assembly?
[21:39:47] <zeeshan> to the right of the tooth thing
[21:40:05] <furrywolf> it doesn't have a number. it's the large ring about in the middle of the assembly.
[21:40:11] <zeeshan> tokay i see it
[21:40:17] <furrywolf> if it had a number, I could order it separately!
[21:40:17] <zeeshan> that doesnt look like a thrust washer
[21:40:42] <furrywolf> I think it's to keep the other parts from wobbling around when the clutch disengages
[21:40:56] <zeeshan> it is definitely being ridden against
[21:41:01] <zeeshan> maybe thats why its cast iron
[21:41:20] <furrywolf> there's no thrust on it. when assembled, it's pinched between two parts of the housing, I think.
[21:41:30] <zeeshan> those 2 tooth gear things
[21:41:38] <zeeshan> theyre moving relative to one another right?
[21:41:43] <zeeshan> when the clutch is disengaged
[21:41:46] <furrywolf> part 40 and part 24 sandwich it when they're screwed together
[21:41:53] <furrywolf> yes
[21:43:32] <furrywolf> it could just be acting as a rear bearing for the output shaft
[21:44:06] <furrywolf> I suspect they broke it by over-tightening #40. I had to get it off with a pipe wrench.
[21:44:31] <zeeshan> lol i just went through my catalog
[21:44:35] <zeeshan> that isnt a standard thrust washer
[21:44:36] <zeeshan> lame!
[21:44:57] <XXCoder1> hey furrywolf about lights
[21:45:01] <furrywolf> it's not a thrust washer, in that there's no thrust on it.
[21:45:10] <zeeshan> furrywolf: its similar
[21:45:13] <XXCoder1> white is ground, and brown and red is hot, respectively?
[21:45:20] <zeeshan> it needs the tribology
[21:45:23] <zeeshan> of a thrust washer
[21:45:27] <zeeshan> even though it doesnt see much load on it
[21:45:33] <zeeshan> theres 2 sliding surfaces
[21:45:36] <furrywolf> I think it's a bearing, in that it stays still while the parts inside it spin.
[21:45:44] <Crom> brown?
[21:46:03] <furrywolf> XXCoder1: white is generally neutral, yes.
[21:46:04] <XXCoder1> Crom: stop/walk sign has strange wiring code
[21:46:05] <zeeshan> furrywolf: use your lathe! :P
[21:46:09] <zeeshan> grind some HSS!
[21:46:19] <Crom> maybe not a bushing, but a radial bushing to keep things aligned?
[21:46:24] <furrywolf> I don't have random hss nor sufficient tooling.
[21:46:30] <furrywolf> Crom: that's my guess.
[21:46:49] <furrywolf> it seems to be working surprisingly well without it. lol
[21:46:58] <Crom> I was gonna say cut it out of the bottom of a dead skillet
[21:47:28] <zeeshan> http://www.ebay.com/itm/HIGH-SPEED-STEEL-CUTTING-HOLE-SAWS-LOT-OF-4-IN-SAME-SIZE-2-3-8-2-375-/131497738425?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item1e9de040b9
[21:47:28] <furrywolf> on monday I'll stop by the local tool repair shop and see if they have a parts unit they can pull one from
[21:47:28] <zeeshan> wow
[21:47:30] <zeeshan> these are SEXY
[21:47:32] <zeeshan> hss hole saws
[21:47:34] <zeeshan> ive never seen that!
[21:47:52] <Crom> black, red, blue are generally 120v phases. with White as neutral
[21:48:01] <zeeshan> furrywolf:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Huge-7-1-2-lb-Lot-of-Lathe-Tool-Bits-HSS-60-Pc-Lot-REX-AAA-Rex-95-/281676778983?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item41953e8de7
[21:48:03] <zeeshan> :D
[21:48:17] <zeeshan> what do you see for shipping cost
[21:48:33] <furrywolf> zeeshan:
http://www.hougen.com/cutters/magdrill/images/Hougen-annular-cutter_group.jpg your hole saws aren't nearly as sexy as the annular cutters on my magdrill. :P
[21:48:39] <zeeshan> haha
[21:48:42] <zeeshan> those are superior
[21:48:46] <zeeshan> but its kinda cool to see hss
[21:48:51] <zeeshan> ive never seen it
[21:48:52] <furrywolf> $12
[21:49:06] <zeeshan> i see $60 lol
[21:49:09] <furrywolf> hss is the cheap holesaws. good ones are bimetal with cobalt teeth.
[21:49:16] <zeeshan> are you sure?
[21:49:16] <furrywolf> well, mid-grade.
[21:49:30] <zeeshan> regular hole saws dont look like hss
[21:49:32] <furrywolf> cheap, like the stuff they sell from china, is the same metal they make desktop pc cases from.
[21:49:33] <zeeshan> theyre a lot softer lol
[21:49:57] <Crom> they last 1/3 of a hole.
[21:50:18] <furrywolf> http://images.speedyservices.com/ProductImages/c1402008_nwtools_srcv140.jpg.ashx?width=1200&height=900&bgcolor=ffffff&scale=both cutter porn
[21:50:32] <Crom> I've switched to carbide teeth hole saws. they pay for themselves so fast
[21:50:43] <furrywolf> yep. I gave my neighbor a harbor freight holesaw because I wasn't going to let him touch my good ones. it failed to drill through a ford body panel.
[21:51:03] <zeeshan> well if it was hss, it would easily drill trhough a steel panel
[21:51:06] <zeeshan> i feel like they are some other material
[21:51:10] <zeeshan> just hardened steel.
[21:51:19] <zeeshan> like 1045
[21:51:25] <furrywolf> yeah, mid-grade ones are hss. the cheap ones are the cheapest junk steel they can find.
[21:51:34] <furrywolf> the good ones are cobalt bi-metal
[21:51:37] <furrywolf> the great ones are carbide.
[21:51:40] <Crom> body panels on older stuff is pretty tough stuff.
[21:51:42] <zeeshan> yea i have the bimetal
[21:51:55] <zeeshan> i dont really look at carbide cause the teeth break too easy
[21:51:59] <zeeshan> when using a handd rill
[21:53:06] <furrywolf> http://www.toolstop.co.uk/components/com_virtuemart/shop_image/product/ee8893f614d1a860e966f8d1dfc6c6cb.jpg more rotabroach porn
[21:53:16] <zeeshan> what are those made out of
[21:53:23] <zeeshan> looks like hss
[21:53:23] <zeeshan> ;p
[21:53:38] <Crom> http://www.zoro.com/ideal-carbide-hole-cutter-78-in-hole-36-301/i/G4226817/
[21:54:04] <zeeshan> crom that looks beefy
[21:54:07] <zeeshan> hard to break :p
[21:54:23] <furrywolf> probably hss, although the pricing suggests they're made from ground-up unicorn horns or something...
[21:54:24] <Crom> hard to break, hard to wear out.
[21:54:35] <zeeshan> but too little number of teeth
[21:54:59] <Crom> though usually change out the pilot drill for a masonery bit
[21:55:06] <zeeshan> http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/41Gth8NgHDL._SX342_.jpg
[21:55:13] <zeeshan> thats the stuff i broke teeth off relatively easily
[21:55:20] <XXCoder1> furrywolf: it works
[21:55:55] <XXCoder1> walk sign shows perfectly, the stop hand only some leds work. if I was electrician I probably would be able to fix it lol
[21:55:58] <Crom> yeah those are tiny teeth
[21:56:20] <furrywolf> now you know why it was pulled.
[21:56:25] <XXCoder1> indeed
[21:56:30] <Crom> xxco: long leg of the diode goes towards positive side +
[21:56:54] <XXCoder1> timer dont seem to work, but it may require quick switch from one hot to other
[21:57:02] <XXCoder1> Crom: I know.
[21:57:11] <XXCoder1> its not leds thats broken probably
[21:57:27] <Crom> traces?
[21:57:35] <XXCoder1> maybe would have to look lol
[21:57:43] <furrywolf> if some but not all work, you have a bad led, bad solder joint, or bad resistor... I suspect any actual circuitry is shared between all leds.
[21:57:52] <XXCoder1> that is possible
[21:58:11] <XXCoder1> though its pretty cool to finally see it light up after all those years
[21:58:32] <XXCoder1> I always thought it was more complex, like hot ground and signal wire
[21:58:43] <Computer_barf> furry , is this the mill that was left outside and rusted?
[21:59:05] <furrywolf> zeeshan:
http://www.ohiopowertool.com/p-8512-hougen-12000-series-rotabroach-cutter-2-x-2-12264.aspx check out the price. that's the downside to annular cutters.
[21:59:09] <Computer_barf> or was that someone else
[21:59:29] <furrywolf> Computer_barf: the stuck linear bearing? no, I bought a "works perfectly" sliding compound miter saw, and found the slide binds badly.
[21:59:57] <Computer_barf> ah i think it might have been _methods that mentioned a mill that was left outside
[22:00:20] <furrywolf> XXCoder1: it's designed to be a direct replacement for a fixture that consisted entirely of two light bulbs.
[22:01:06] <XXCoder1> yeah I thought otherwise before meeting you lol
[22:02:14] <furrywolf> I have 5 cutters, and I hope I never need a size I don't have, or to replace one of these..
[22:02:49] <furrywolf> XXCoder1: now pull it apart, find the bad led, replace.
[22:03:04] <Crom> furrywolf, I'd still stay flush with brake fuild move it a bunch, tilt it up and pure more brake fluid into it. move it more, then blow with a rubber tipped airgun
[22:03:04] <XXCoder1> I would check internal stuff first
[22:03:19] <XXCoder1> may be bad trace "burnt" out leds in same chain
[22:03:40] <furrywolf> ... the current-carrying capability of your average trace far exceeds that of your average led. they're not going to burn.
[22:03:55] <furrywolf> more likely you have a bad led, bad resistor, or bad solder joint.
[22:04:01] <XXCoder1> well I said bad trace, may not be caused by actual burnt out
[22:04:10] <XXCoder1> weather for example. its probably been out for years
[22:04:19] <Crom> more likely mechinical fatigue from temp cycles...
[22:04:23] <furrywolf> less talking, more unscrewing. :P
[22:04:23] <XXCoder1> yeah
[22:04:30] <XXCoder1> lol
[22:04:47] <Crom> open, open, open, open, open, open, open, open, open, open, open, open!!!!!!!!!
[22:05:50] <furrywolf> bbl, more humping of the chop saw.
[22:06:08] <Crom> LOL
[22:06:22] <Crom> hump, hump, hump, hump, hump, hump, hump, hump, hump, hump, hump, hump, hump, hump!!!!
[22:06:32] <Crom> open, open, open, open, open, open, open, open, open, open, open, open, open, open!!!!!!!!!
[22:07:46] <XXCoder1> lol
[22:10:12] <Crom> shit memory leak on the winbloz machine
[22:10:36] <Crom> HD is going full tilt swapping
[22:30:00] <Crom> swap error..
[22:38:57] <furrywolf> saw humping has resulted in significant improvement. twice it suddenly got easier. I think that was stuck sets of balls freeing up.
[22:39:57] <XXCoder1> heh
[22:46:22] <furrywolf> it's getting dark and the bitey bugs are out... project deferred until tomorrow.
[22:47:06] <XXCoder1> yummy
[22:47:24] <XXCoder1> its not worthy meal unless it tries to bite you back! lol
[22:48:30] <furrywolf> http://www.grainger.com/product/AMPCO-Adjustable-Wrench-4DC25 picked one of those up today for $1... who knows when you'll need non-sparking tools!
[22:48:50] <XXCoder1> $100??
[22:49:00] <XXCoder1> damn you had a great deal
[22:49:46] <furrywolf> it's a very specialized tool.
[22:50:02] <XXCoder1> yeah not often do people need tools that wont spark
[22:50:32] <furrywolf> non-sparking and non-magnetic
[22:52:32] <furrywolf> and Beryllium-free, although that might not be a good thing.
[22:52:51] <XXCoder1> wonder if theres any application for extra sparky tools lol
[22:53:17] <furrywolf> yes. survival fire starters. :P
[22:53:24] <XXCoder1> lol
[22:53:25] <furrywolf> and, of course, lighters, etc.
[22:53:46] <furrywolf> my oxytorch has an extra-sparky tool on a wire on the stand. :P
[23:14:43] <XXCoder1> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fgnsXPnAX8M
[23:14:45] <XXCoder1> interesting
[23:35:49] <ffurrywol> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gmIb2zkMtjQ more fun with aluminum
[23:36:15] <XXCoder1> yeah saw that before. pretty cool allright
[23:38:13] * ffurrywol wonders when aliens will start pouring aluminum into random earth skyscrapers to use as art on their homeworld
[23:38:25] <XXCoder1> lol
[23:42:38] <XXCoder1> I remember one strange project
[23:42:45] <XXCoder1> guy used mecury to make telescope
[23:42:54] <XXCoder1> of course, heavily protected in case it tips over
[23:43:05] <XXCoder1> anyway its on disk that spins slowly so it curves
[23:44:06] <ffurrywol> yep, there's a few of those.
[23:44:26] <XXCoder1> its an amazing metal
[23:44:30] <XXCoder1> too bad its so damn toxic
[23:46:07] <ffurrywol> bbl, wolfy bedtime
[23:55:53] <XXCoder1> bah
[23:55:59] <XXCoder1> coveres is glued on
