#linuxcnc | Logs for 2015-04-24

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[01:42:29] <Cromaglious_> man that Grizzly G0727 is interesting to look at... Mini horizontal or vertical knee mill. quill doesn't extend. and no nod just rotate
[01:46:26] <Cromaglious_> G0795 looks decent. though the spindle only gots to 1420rpm
[01:49:53] <Cromaglious_> G0762 is even better looking with VFD and power feed on the X but it's $2600 though RPMS goes to 2500
[01:55:07] <archivist> or for similar money get an older stronger industrial mill
[02:06:20] <Deejay> moin
[03:58:07] <RyanS> so if a thread cut on a lathe starts to deviate from the correct pitch after five or so threads, is that likely because I disengaged the half nut and manually traversed the carriage ?
[03:59:28] <RyanS> also had compound at 0° rather than 29°
[04:07:08] <Tom_itx> if you singlepoint a thread on the lathe, you need to pick up the same index mark on the next pass or it will screw up the thread. no pun intended (maybe)
[04:09:13] <RyanS> heh, but doesn't it match on the second pass if you use the same point on the threading dial?
[04:09:56] <SpeedEvil> It should
[04:10:12] <Tom_itx> give it some lead in so you take up the slop in the carriage first
[04:10:21] <Tom_itx> if still not, you got bigger problems
[04:11:31] <RyanS> i guess the spindle rotation has to be synchronised with the lead screw, that's difficult to do by manually traversing the carriage
[04:11:52] <Tom_itx> that's what the index dial and auto feed are for
[04:12:34] <RyanS> I realised that after reading up :)
[04:13:17] <Tom_itx> also, remember where your depth was on the first pass so you can increase it
[04:14:52] <RyanS> but 29° on compound is wierd, I prefer to use the DRO on x to change depth.... why stuff with the compound dial
[04:15:52] <RyanS> CNC lathes advance thread cutting depth on x surely
[04:15:53] <Tom_itx> http://tom-itx.no-ip.biz:81/~webpage/temp/thread1.jpg
[04:15:58] <Tom_itx> that was fun to single point
[04:16:02] <Tom_itx> 3tpi
[04:16:20] <Tom_itx> about 1.25" D
[04:16:27] <RyanS> UNC?
[04:16:41] <Tom_itx> i guess
[04:16:48] <Tom_itx> probably custom
[04:23:51] <RyanS> hmm, because im in Australia, cheapish used lathes, if they are available are humongous, 3 phase. so my Chinese 300x900mm lathe had a motor replaced, the feed gearbox had loose gears. Some idiot had seemingly thumped the endgears onto the shafts because the keys and keyways were burred... fun
[04:24:44] <RyanS> I'm too scared to open the gearbox covers, I don't know what's lurking inside
[04:24:54] <RyanS> rats maybe
[04:31:07] <renesis> spiders are worse
[04:31:10] <renesis> because spiders
[04:32:16] <RyanS> spiders stabilize a long bar sticking through the spindle bar :)
[04:32:29] <RyanS> bore
[04:37:34] <RyanS> ...thats not a small toolbit https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=VK8JfhD_FxY#t=395
[04:47:38] <XXCoder> yo
[05:49:22] <RyanS> hahaha "I've always found the BA series amusing. It's a number system (0 to 22ish), dimensioned in God-Given Inches to the Nth place of decimals and British To The Core. Actually, the British Association pulled a fast one. The numbers hide the fact that it's a metric system, dimensioned in logical numbers of Communistic French Millimetres" post on practical machinist
[05:51:28] <archivist> it has always been metric, it is a copy of a Swiss thread, no french involved
[05:53:14] <RyanS> idk, but i just like the way he wrote that
[05:54:27] <DaViruz> what's a BA series?
[05:54:43] <RyanS> threads
[05:54:55] <DaViruz> ah
[05:55:21] <archivist> British Association a thread standard they came up with
[05:55:29] <DaViruz> frankly i find all systems refering to anything but the direct dimensions atrocious
[05:55:43] <archivist> based on the swiss Thury standard iirc
[05:57:50] <DaViruz> number and letter drill sizes comes to mind..
[06:00:39] <archivist> number an letter get you an in between size from the other standards
[06:01:55] <archivist> not that your screw pitch will be anywhere near the spec :)
[06:02:21] <DaViruz> sure but why just not name it by the actual size
[06:03:57] <archivist> its like the old sheet gauges too, but there would have been a gauge they used to check it, not a micrometer
[06:04:59] <DaViruz> and wire gauges. and shot gauges
[06:05:41] <DaViruz> seems like a very roundabout way of doing it, even back then
[06:06:11] <archivist> dunno, measuring equipment was rare in the old days
[06:08:03] <XXCoder> I saw 1960s ones today
[06:08:12] <XXCoder> caliper and millimeter
[06:11:08] <archivist> yes but the number and letter series were probably from late 1890's early 1900's
[06:14:40] <XXCoder> cool
[06:49:28] <RyanS> unusual slideway https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=f2y36EGHpts#t=74
[08:25:42] <zeeshan|2> early morning machinig
[08:25:44] <zeeshan|2> !
[08:41:27] <linbox> Hello
[08:41:43] <linbox> I need some help
[08:42:11] <SpeedEvil> Cut the red wire.
[08:43:06] <linbox> I installed virtualbox guest additions and now linuxcnc does not run. Any suggestions.
[08:45:03] <_methods> no idea on that
[08:45:16] <_methods> that's why i don't install other stuff on my linuxcnc boxes
[08:45:42] <malcom2073> linbox: Did guest additions install a diifferent kernel?
[08:46:50] <linbox> No, I don't think guest are tools just to make the virtualbox to work better
[08:47:19] <malcom2073> Right, how do you think they do that? (Hint: kernel modules) :P
[08:47:24] <SpeedEvil> It sounds like that would be a new kernel for me
[08:47:25] <SpeedEvil> to me
[08:47:56] <linbox> i'm using 2.6.7
[08:48:12] <linbox> this is the kernel 3.4-9-rtai-686-pae
[08:48:25] <malcom2073> You could try blacklisting the vbox kernel modules see if that helps?
[08:48:37] <linbox> okay
[08:54:28] <zeeshan|2> rofl @ cut the red wire
[08:55:40] <malcom2073> How I'd wire bombs: https://scontent-iad.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xta1/v/t1.0-9/971433_10151623225174022_1637938704_n.jpg?oh=eb14fb8f6e0947c333a7fe0f4d1b345d&oe=55D32BFA
[08:57:48] <archivist> we once wired a boat with red wire only, if red it must be the right wire was the theory
[09:08:27] <linbox> malcom2073 I uninstalled vbox guest additions and now linuxcnc works again.
[09:09:07] <malcom2073> linbox: Does it fail when you run in simulation mode with vbox guest additions installed?
[09:09:25] <linbox> yes it does
[09:10:22] <malcom2073> How does it fail? What error does it give?
[09:10:33] <malcom2073> pastebin the command line output?
[09:10:47] <linbox> is a long list
[09:10:53] <malcom2073> That's why I said pastebin
[09:10:53] <malcom2073> :P
[09:11:15] <malcom2073> You could always just install ubuntu, and install the simulator on that
[09:11:26] <malcom2073> http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?LinuxCNC_Pure_Simulator
[09:11:32] <malcom2073> That's what I use in a vbox
[09:11:41] <linbox> okay let me see if I can find the log
[09:25:40] <linbox> malcom2073: do you know if I can use that in ubuntu 14.04?
[09:25:47] <malcom2073> linbox: I do not know
[09:26:54] <linbox> malcom2073: okay I'm going to see if I can download ubuntu 12.04 to install the same version you have installed.
[09:27:19] <malcom2073> linbox: I'm running the simulator on 10.04
[09:27:32] <malcom2073> I've not tried it on 12.04, but it should be possible as the page states to compile it
[09:28:35] <linbox> malcom2073: did you compile it on 10.04?
[09:28:40] <malcom2073> linbox: No
[09:29:18] <linbox> malcom2073: are you running the latest version on 10.04?
[09:29:30] <malcom2073> linbox: Likely not, it's about a year old
[09:30:13] <linbox> malcom2073: okay thank you, I'll be back after I finish.
[11:10:47] <JT-Shop> just my luck the spindle pulleys are shot too
[11:15:20] <_methods> what happened?
[11:15:46] <JT-Shop> rebuilding the riding lawn mower deck
[11:16:00] <JT-Shop> the center blade fell off somewhere sometime
[11:16:39] <_methods> oh
[11:16:49] <_methods> you never found it?
[11:28:52] <JT-Shop> nope and me and the dog walk all over the mowed areas twice a day
[11:29:12] <JT-Shop> I think it might have spun off the last time I shut the deck down
[11:40:52] <_methods> heh i'm sure once you get a nice shiny new blade on there it will find it immediately lol
[11:42:17] <jthornton> lol
[11:43:24] <archivist> the damage the out of balance remains causes is fun too, one blade fell off my car water pump, I removed the opposing blade, carried on, the water pump then came off busting the radiator :)
[11:44:04] <jthornton> I hate when that happens
[11:45:08] <archivist> I just blocked up the holes in the block and ran total loss for a few weeks till I managed to get spares off another car,
[11:45:28] <archivist> I was cruel to that heap :)
[12:06:42] <Tom_itx> jthornton any storms brewin that way yet?
[12:06:51] <Tom_itx> we're due for some it seems
[12:08:17] <Tom_itx> although the radar looks clear
[12:16:12] <renesis> was a light tstorm out of nowhere last night
[12:16:22] <renesis> i thought the kids next door were taking flash pictures
[12:23:03] <Tom_itx> mmm they're saying golfball size hail & tornados
[12:24:18] <Tom_itx> http://tom-itx.no-ip.biz:81/~webpage/temp/hail/hail4.jpg
[12:24:26] <Tom_itx> in case you don't know what a golfball is...
[12:56:49] <JT-Shop> rained a bit while I was napping
[13:17:16] <JT-Shop> well I just ssh from here to the hardinge
[13:18:03] <Tom_itx> get the hdd set up?
[13:18:03] <JT-Shop> no, I'm connected to the cave computer the one I could not ssh out of
[13:18:10] <Tom_itx> been workin on a couple here
[13:18:27] <JT-Shop> I still need to put the other 2TB in the cave computer and set up backuppc
[13:18:41] <Tom_itx> trying to figure permissions in win7 so i can move files around
[13:18:58] <Tom_itx> is it gonna be a backup pc?
[13:19:39] <Tom_itx> i could use this mb for a backup once i move the asrock board to this
[13:19:48] <Tom_itx> it's pretty slow for anything else
[13:22:15] <andypugh> My Mac HD had an unrecoverable error earlier in the week. I was forced to reformat the drive. Which actually was much less of a problem than it sounds and the system walked me through it. Restart holding command-R to boot from the recovery partition, reformat the drive using the Disk Util, then press the re-install OS button. I was asked for my Wifi Password, and it ran off to the APP store and downloaded the OS. Then it
[13:22:16] <andypugh> spotted my Time Machine backup and restored everything. Amazingly painless really. Though it took a while.
[13:24:14] <JT-Shop> I've never been able to get my mac laptop to boot up
[13:24:37] <andypugh> Does it have an OS?
[13:25:06] <andypugh> Battery? On-switch :-)
[13:26:50] <Tom_itx> heh
[13:27:13] <Tom_itx> the 'on' switch on mine is a wire dangling from the mb right now
[13:43:15] <Cromaglious_> backup? what's that?
[13:44:22] <Cromaglious_> I tend to just have multiple copies spread around multiple computers.. somewhere there is a cron job that backs up my documents dirs, temp dirs to the different machines
[13:44:31] <Cromaglious_> fun part is finding everything
[13:46:09] <Cromaglious_> oops.. I haven't installed it on this machine yet
[13:46:16] <archivist> I made a script one time to take check sums of the source and kept it in a database so I know whether source or backup is corrupted
[13:46:55] <JT-Shop> andypugh, I got it to do something once but not boot up
[13:50:26] <Tom_itx> i've heard of ppl freezing the hdd to try to recover files
[13:50:42] <archivist> and heating
[13:50:53] <Tom_itx> never tried it personally
[13:52:01] <archivist> I have a seized up drive from my old lappy, heating and sharp rotational taps have not got it running
[13:58:50] <JT-Shop> seems like the ubuntu computers are refusing connection on port 22... I can ssh from them to a debian computer
[13:59:06] <JT-Shop> so I assume it is some configuration in the ubuntu computer
[13:59:24] <JT-Shop> but first I need to upgrade the firmware on the 7i77
[13:59:37] <cradek> I think ubuntu didn't install openssh-server by default
[14:01:56] <_methods> yeah it always helps to make sure it's installed lol
[14:03:12] <JT-Shop> yea, it is not installed... a new thing for me lol
[14:10:46] <JT-Shop> I'm sshing now but the 7i76 is not cooperating with the update
[14:20:01] <JT-Shop> this is the errors I get while trying to update the 7i76 http://pastebin.com/pEb4HqyN
[14:21:13] <ffurrywol> No idea. You need to send it to me so I can test it.
[14:21:32] <malcom2073> Pssst, you're supposed to /nick PCW_2 before you do that :P
[14:21:33] <ffurrywol> try being root?
[14:23:51] <XXCoder> heys
[14:25:19] <ffurrywol> lol
[14:28:15] <_methods> sudo sammich
[14:29:32] <XXCoder> sudo /op XXCoder
[14:30:36] <JT-Shop> same error as root
[14:31:40] <ffurrywol> hrmm
[14:34:42] <_methods> you gettting any errors in dmesg abot that pci interface not being found?
[14:37:33] <JT-Shop> I'm guessing I didn't get the 5i25 firmware updated as it is 31
[14:38:11] <_methods> http://emc.mah.priv.at/irc/%23linuxcnc/2013-09-05.html
[14:38:43] <_methods> i guess you had a similar problem a few years ago hehe
[14:39:16] <_methods> <PCW> I take it back I can get update7i77 to work with current master
[14:39:16] <_methods> [19:30:10] <PCW> the complaint about setsserial not existing in /proc/modules is what you get
[14:39:18] <_methods> [19:30:12] <PCW> if the 7I77 is not in setup mode
[14:39:40] <JT-Shop> I moved jumper W3
[14:44:11] <PCW> dmesg should show what setsserial is complaining about
[14:45:28] <JT-Shop> is smart serial firmware version 31 the latest one?
[14:45:32] <PCW> you need host (5I25) fimware version 35 or newer to be able to update sserial remotes
[14:45:44] <PCW> latest is 42
[14:45:56] <JT-Shop> is that at freebymesa.something?
[14:46:09] <PCW> 31 is at least a couple of years old
[14:46:22] <PCW> maybe 3 years
[14:48:01] * ffurrywol still doesn't own any mesa products. :(
[14:58:59] <ffurrywol> "Deputies searched the vehicle Harris was driving and located numerous items consistent with burglary tools. The items included bolt cutters, zip ties, screw drivers, drill bits, gloves, and other tools commonly used to burglarize."
[14:59:23] <XXCoder> jeez
[14:59:26] <XXCoder> or to fix something
[14:59:48] <XXCoder> police and news olviously had heavy bias to criminal mindset
[15:00:02] <XXCoder> "oh look there's hammer. it must have been used to smash windows"
[15:00:23] <ffurrywol> Yeah, I apparantly run some kind of burglary warehouse, since I have more than one of every one of those things in my shop.
[15:01:25] <XXCoder> lol
[15:01:36] <XXCoder> factories must be causing crime wave
[15:10:11] <JT-Shop> making some progress http://pastebin.com/bpxJFtTq
[15:10:58] <Tom_itx> wow. great progress here.. just finished a well deserved nap.
[15:15:51] <JT-Shop> nothing better than a nap on a rainy day
[15:16:20] <JT-Shop> cleared dmesg and ran ./update7i76 http://pastebin.com/CRQE8sD0
[15:18:18] <PCW> ok should be done
[15:19:45] <PCW> the last 2 lines in update7i76 need a "echo" (but it completed correctly)
[15:19:47] <PCW> jumper for operate mode, cycle field power and you should be running
[15:24:15] <JT-Shop> ok, thanks
[15:29:23] <JT-Shop> ok everything is updated and it runs much better on 2.7
[15:29:27] <JT-Shop> thanks
[15:32:21] <SpeedEvil> ffurrywol: yeah - they should get to do that only if they give the whole list.
[15:32:53] <SpeedEvil> 'And a welder, broken car starter motor and 84 packs of cheetos, which are not typically used as burglary tools'
[15:33:16] <XXCoder> lol
[15:33:29] <XXCoder> cheetos is typical burglary tool
[15:33:37] <XXCoder> when get hungry, refuel
[15:33:59] <furrywolf> nah. no refueling. just more meth.
[15:34:35] <furrywolf> no need for sleep either
[15:38:56] <Loetmichel> SpeedEvil: haha, they should see MY car
[15:39:52] <Loetmichel> i helped a friend tow a car on wenedsday... i found a pack of chocolade/sweets that were a chhristmas present of my company while searching for the tow line in the trunk ;-)
[15:40:04] <SpeedEvil> Why would you use zip-ties in a burglary?
[15:40:23] <SpeedEvil> I mean - kidnapping, yes
[15:40:50] <Loetmichel> to immobilize any house occupants?
[15:41:56] <CaptHindsight> to quickly tie things to your utility belt
[15:42:52] <CaptHindsight> you don't want that diamond tiara slipping out of your hands as you make your get-away
[15:43:23] <furrywolf> I think you greatly overestimate the class of the burglers here.
[15:46:11] * Loetmichel once had to open his door at home with a lamiated card (actually: with my passport) becaue i forgot the keys inside and the door fell shut...
[15:46:28] <Loetmichel> ... police were at the neighbors dor questioning her...
[15:46:45] <Loetmichel> looking at me opening my door they ask "can we help you?"
[15:47:14] <Loetmichel> <- "no thanks, that happens often..." *klick* door open, less than 10 secs...
[15:47:29] <Loetmichel> police: "you do that often, dont you?"
[15:47:34] <Deejay> "can you help me carrying all the things out?" ;)
[15:47:40] <XXCoder> lol
[15:48:08] <Loetmichel> <. "thats what i just said, i am a bit hard on remembering to get my keys when getting out" ;-)
[15:48:49] <Loetmichel> no further questions asked... they have SEEn that i opened my door with my passport. they didnt even ask to see it ;-)
[15:48:57] <Loetmichel> to veryfy that i really live there ;-)
[15:49:07] <XXCoder> lol
[15:49:19] <XXCoder> well out for weekend have fun guys
[15:49:27] <jthornton> and we are sshing from the cave now
[15:58:36] <Tom_itx> jthornton, did the new TP in 2.7 help your short moves on the plasma?
[16:23:42] <Deejay> gn8
[16:40:09] <zeeshan|2> andypugh: hi
[16:40:23] <andypugh> Hi
[16:40:58] <zeeshan|2> i forget but have you done any biaxial tensile tests?
[16:41:04] <zeeshan|2> you said triaxial yea
[16:42:31] <zeeshan|2> http://i.imgur.com/3bEuowG.jpg
[16:42:37] <zeeshan|2> http://i.imgur.com/QfvE02j.jpg
[16:42:41] <zeeshan|2> these bands are forming
[16:42:51] <zeeshan|2> where the strain is localizing
[16:42:57] <zeeshan|2> im not sure why
[16:42:58] <zeeshan|2> lol
[16:43:47] <andypugh> LĂĽders bands?
[16:43:57] <zeeshan|2> no
[16:44:20] <andypugh> On the substrate?
[16:44:24] <zeeshan|2> no this is film by itself
[16:44:41] <andypugh> Zeeshan bands?
[16:44:44] <zeeshan|2> rofl
[16:44:46] <zeeshan|2> maybe
[16:44:56] <zeeshan|2> i think it has something to do with the material
[16:45:03] <zeeshan|2> like the fact that its got hard and soft segments
[16:46:12] <zeeshan|2> like luder bands show up in uniaxial
[16:46:29] <zeeshan|2> and they are right in front of the plastic deformation zone
[16:46:30] <andypugh> Maybe time to remember something I was told at college. “The result of an experiment is never wrong, but sometimes it isn’t the experiment you thought you were doing"
[16:46:43] <zeeshan|2> well
[16:46:52] <zeeshan|2> i know its equibiaxial tensile test
[16:46:59] <zeeshan|2> cause i can lay major and minor strain on top of each other
[16:47:05] <zeeshan|2> and they are pretty identical
[16:48:04] <andypugh> Can you rotate the same specimen (or a different one) and get the bands to point the other way?
[16:48:17] <zeeshan|2> i havent tried that yet
[16:48:34] <andypugh> Knowing if it follows the material or the tester would be useful
[16:48:45] <zeeshan|2> maybe it will help to show the apparatus
[16:49:20] <zeeshan|2> http://i.imgur.com/zJRzJ8I.jpg
[16:49:33] <zeeshan|2> im injecting air from the other side
[16:50:39] <zeeshan|2> ill do a couple more tests
[16:50:40] <andypugh> Ah. You had shown me drawings, but I forgot
[16:50:51] <zeeshan|2> and see if there is a trend
[16:51:24] <zeeshan|2> man this is some cool stuff to work with
[16:51:34] <zeeshan|2> you blow it up to 30 psi, it forms a hemisphere
[16:51:37] <andypugh> Maybe you have invented a really sensitive way to measure the roundness of a hole :-)
[16:51:38] <zeeshan|2> release air pressure it stays somewhat
[16:51:51] <zeeshan|2> give it heat and bam its back to its flat shape!
[16:52:01] <zeeshan|2> so trippy :)
[16:52:07] <zeeshan|2> andypugh: ROFLO
[16:52:11] <zeeshan|2> that might be the case!
[16:52:39] <zeeshan|2> i did machine it at home :)
[16:53:06] <zeeshan|2> you know what im gonna do --
[16:53:08] <zeeshan|2> try it with aluminum foil
[16:53:15] <zeeshan|2> and see if it does the same thing
[16:53:15] <andypugh> They grow skin grafts on an apparatus similar to yours. The cells like a cyclic stress.
[16:53:21] <zeeshan|2> it can isolate if its to do with the fixture
[16:53:23] <zeeshan|2> or my material
[16:53:41] <andypugh> Foil is likely to be _very_ anisotropic
[16:54:05] <zeeshan|2> maybe another plastic
[16:54:28] <zeeshan|2> or heat treat the foil
[16:54:32] <zeeshan|2> to bring it back to isotropic
[16:54:36] <andypugh> Anything callendared will be the same
[16:55:32] <andypugh> That took a lot of tries. calendered
[16:56:07] <zeeshan|2> well cant you bring it back into isotropic state
[16:56:19] <zeeshan|2> by heating it and allowing the grains to grow back uniformly
[16:56:36] <andypugh> Probably. How do you tell?
[16:57:03] <andypugh> Simpler to draw lines on the foil and test both orientations.
[16:58:48] <zeeshan|2> yes
[17:01:22] <zeeshan|2> i wonder what the best way to control 2 solenoids is to control the chamber pressure
[17:01:32] <zeeshan|2> one solenoid lets flow in
[17:01:34] <zeeshan|2> the other lets flow out
[17:01:41] <zeeshan|2> in an attempt to maintain pressure
[17:01:47] <andypugh> LinuxCNC + PID :-)
[17:01:49] <zeeshan|2> haha
[17:01:59] <zeeshan|2> i came across this:
[17:02:11] <zeeshan|2> http://code.activestate.com/recipes/577231-discrete-pid-controller/
[17:02:21] <zeeshan|2> a pid controlled written in python
[17:02:39] <andypugh> Wild
[17:02:47] <zeeshan|2> i assume youd have to run this on a real time os
[17:02:50] <zeeshan|2> for it to be any good
[17:02:50] <andypugh> Arduino + C would likely work better
[17:03:37] <zeeshan|2> i have a pi2
[17:03:43] <zeeshan|2> maybe i can use it
[17:03:50] <andypugh> A PID controller is basically one line of code, that Python one is 90% Python and OOP cruft
[17:04:09] <zeeshan|2> haha
[17:04:28] <zeeshan|2> 2 solenoids, 1 pressure transducer
[17:04:57] <zeeshan|2> set pressure ie 10psi , inlet solenoid opens , we note that it overshoots to 12psi
[17:05:08] <zeeshan|2> outlet solenoid opens , pressure undershoots to 9psi
[17:05:17] <zeeshan|2> inlet solenoid oepns again and pressure is now 10psi
[17:05:23] <zeeshan|2> would it kinda work like that?
[17:05:33] <furrywolf> I built a voltage-to-pressure controller once, but it was simple... just a few opamps. more of a P than a PID.
[17:06:25] <andypugh> Why not use an electronically controlled regulator?
[17:06:54] <zeeshan|2> andypugh: when i was looking at 2 way regulators
[17:06:54] <furrywolf> they're $$$.
[17:07:09] <zeeshan|2> it seems like they only compensate for line pressure fluctuations
[17:07:17] <zeeshan|2> i want the chamber pressure to be controlled
[17:07:18] <zeeshan|2> not line pressure
[17:07:35] <andypugh> You need a relieving regulator
[17:07:36] <zeeshan|2> because my sample is in a temp changing environment
[17:07:44] <furrywolf> they make pressure regulators that are voltage controlled. they're just expensive.
[17:07:46] <zeeshan|2> so lets say -10C istart test
[17:07:57] <zeeshan|2> and set to 10psi, now change temp to 40 psi
[17:08:09] <zeeshan|2> pv=nrt ~ approximation means pressure will increase
[17:08:18] <zeeshan|2> but i want to keep it constant at 10psi
[17:09:43] <furrywolf> since it's slowly changing, you don't need a lot of brains in the controller.
[17:09:51] <furrywolf> how precisely do you need it regulated?
[17:10:00] <zeeshan|2> .1 psi would be nice
[17:10:02] <zeeshan|2> http://www.omega.com/pptst/ip610.html
[17:10:08] <zeeshan|2> looks like what youre talking about
[17:10:10] <furrywolf> I have a couple off-the-shelf pressure gauges with enough brains built in to do that...
[17:10:22] <andypugh> I think I would use a displacement-controlled piston
[17:10:51] <zeeshan|2> id like to go from 0psi to around 60psi
[17:10:59] <zeeshan|2> actually ill be safe and say
[17:10:59] <zeeshan|2> 100psi
[17:11:04] <zeeshan|2> in 1 psi incremenets
[17:11:19] <zeeshan|2> with .1 psi resolution
[17:11:25] <Tom_itx> arduino ftw!!
[17:11:37] <andypugh> Leadscew + Piston
[17:11:40] <zeeshan|2> andypugh: that seems like more work :P
[17:11:49] <zeeshan|2> whats wrong with 2 solenoids
[17:12:16] <zeeshan|2> im confused about how when the pressure overshoots
[17:12:21] <zeeshan|2> the controlled knows which solenoid to activate
[17:12:31] <andypugh> Possibly nothing. Especially if you add extra volume do damp the PWM
[17:12:59] <zeeshan|2> *controller
[17:13:26] <furrywolf> http://www.smcusa.com/top-navigation/cad-models.aspx/22904 I have a couple of those... they have switching outputs with configurable hysteresis. you could use it to set too high (open vent solenoid) and too low (open fill solenoid) points. it doesn't do PID or anything, but it sounds like it'd be enough for your application.
[17:14:45] <andypugh> Mybe not right, but keep this link. http://red-y.com/en/home/index.html
[17:14:56] <andypugh> USB-controlled gas-flow contollers
[17:15:34] <andypugh> We use them at work and they are very good (for the job)
[17:15:45] <zeeshan|2> they look expensive :P
[17:18:14] <furrywolf> http://www.smcusa.com/top-navigation/cad-models.aspx/127728 if you want to spend money, you can just get one of those. :P
[17:19:14] <zeeshan|2> so these types of regulators
[17:19:19] <zeeshan|2> can they sense the outlet side
[17:19:21] <zeeshan|2> and regulate?
[17:19:34] <zeeshan|2> i dont see why they cant
[17:19:35] <furrywolf> that's what all pressure regulators do?
[17:19:45] <zeeshan|2> not really
[17:19:52] <zeeshan|2> you can try it
[17:19:59] <zeeshan|2> but set your regulator to 50psi
[17:20:01] <andypugh> There are two sorts of regulators
[17:20:04] <zeeshan|2> and heat the tool its connected to
[17:20:18] <zeeshan|2> even though the tool is hot now, the pressure still is reading 50psi on the gauge of the regulator
[17:20:21] <zeeshan|2> when its much higher
[17:20:32] <furrywolf> umm... no. :P
[17:20:41] <andypugh> Some only add more gas when the pressure is too low. Others (relieving regulators) vent gas when the pressure is too high.
[17:20:41] <furrywolf> the pressure gauge reads whatever the actual output pressure is.
[17:20:56] <furrywolf> if it's reading 50, the output is 50.
[17:20:59] <zeeshan|2> andypugh: is there one that can do both? :-)
[17:21:04] <andypugh> You wouldn’t use the latter to control Flourine pressure.
[17:21:06] <furrywolf> yes, most do both.
[17:21:17] <furrywolf> but 0.1psi is not likely with a mechanical regulator.
[17:21:57] * furrywolf wouldn't use ANYTHING to control fluorine pressure, preferring to let someone else do it and stay as far away from free fluorine as possible.
[17:22:06] <zeeshan|2> what
[17:22:10] <zeeshan|2> y ou dont like the smell of flourine?
[17:22:11] <zeeshan|2> its great
[17:22:18] <zeeshan|2> refreshing
[17:22:50] <andypugh> Normally I would say use a mechanical reg, turn the knob by hand and measure the pressure rather than trying to control it. But your material means that you care about pressure history as well as the current pressure.
[17:23:16] <zeeshan|2> andypugh: yes
[17:23:37] <zeeshan|2> where i get a bit blurry is in this state:
[17:24:03] <zeeshan|2> i heat the material up, deform it to 10% strain, then drop the temperature while maintaining that strain to -10C. now i release the strain (pressure)
[17:24:14] <zeeshan|2> i monitor the strain map
[17:24:22] <zeeshan|2> materiwl doesnt change.
[17:24:34] <zeeshan|2> (there is less than <1% elastic recovery)
[17:24:43] <zeeshan|2> .01% i mean
[17:24:56] <zeeshan|2> now i increase temperature, while the pressure is 0.
[17:25:03] <zeeshan|2> the material starts to recover
[17:25:08] <zeeshan|2> but guess what, i can no longer know what the load is.
[17:25:10] <andypugh> I am still seeing a big syringe and a linear stage as your ideal pressure controller
[17:25:11] <zeeshan|2> (recovery load)
[17:25:21] <furrywolf> what about something extremely analog, like a weight on top of an airbag?
[17:25:25] <zeeshan|2> its almost like i need to decrease the pressure in stepwise increments
[17:25:33] <furrywolf> or a random air cylinder and a weight.
[17:25:36] <zeeshan|2> to be able to ensure i know the load as it recovers
[17:26:17] <furrywolf> an air cylinder and a weight generates a constant pressure as long as you don't exceed its travel.
[17:27:57] <zeeshan|2> ive been working onthis shit too long
[17:28:00] <zeeshan|2> seriously
[17:28:02] <zeeshan|2> tired of it :p
[17:28:15] <zeeshan|2> it felt good blowing a peice of it up today
[17:28:20] <zeeshan|2> only took 40psi
[17:28:28] <zeeshan|2> went kaboom
[17:28:41] <zeeshan|2> this thing is so retarded
[17:28:43] <zeeshan|2> the more you heat it up
[17:28:43] <furrywolf> just wait until you go for your doctorate. :P
[17:28:46] <zeeshan|2> the less it stretches
[17:28:57] <zeeshan|2> that still messes with my mind
[17:29:23] <zeeshan|2> no doctorate for me
[17:29:26] <zeeshan|2> cant take it anymore
[17:29:49] <furrywolf> (phd: piled higher and deeper)
[17:29:58] <zeeshan|2> i dont think a phd is going to benefit me
[17:30:04] <zeeshan|2> a masters yes
[17:30:08] <zeeshan|2> but not a phd
[17:30:21] <zeeshan|2> unless i plan to work in this field forever
[17:30:23] <zeeshan|2> f that
[17:30:26] <andypugh> PhD gets you off speeding tickets.
[17:30:33] <zeeshan|2> haha
[17:30:46] <zeeshan|2> if work is going well
[17:30:57] <zeeshan|2> apparently they give you the option to finish phd in 1-1/2 years
[17:30:59] <zeeshan|2> instead of 4.
[17:31:06] <zeeshan|2> if that happens, i might linger on
[17:31:10] <furrywolf> by working 20-24 hours per day instead of 8-12?
[17:31:11] <zeeshan|2> but i still think its not going to benefit me
[17:31:26] <zeeshan|2> nah
[17:31:40] <zeeshan|2> maybe i dont know
[17:31:40] <zeeshan|2> :P
[18:41:38] <Jymmm> You can almost see the curvature of the horizon… https://www.youtube.com/embed/f1BgzIZRfT8
[18:43:49] <Tom_L> don't look down
[18:45:09] <Tom_L> good spot for base jumping
[18:45:27] <andypugh> Fit man. And I bet he uses the cowstails less when not being filmed
[18:46:25] <andypugh> Some kind of base-jumping equipment would appear to be in order.
[18:46:46] <Tom_L> it would beat the climb down
[18:52:11] <andypugh> This guy talks just like you would guess that a crane—model-nerd would talk.
[18:52:17] <andypugh> https://www.youtube.com/embed/f1BgzIZRfT8
[19:12:54] <LeelooMinai> You get to the top and then realize you have to pee
[19:16:58] <jthornton> Tom_itx, yes it ran rock steady at the commanded speed of 60 IPM
[19:17:19] <Tom_itx> nice
[19:17:57] <Tom_itx> where did you dl 2.7 from?
[19:19:08] <andypugh> buildbot.linuxcnc.org
[19:19:21] <Tom_itx> i don't see it there
[19:19:32] <Tom_itx> is that master now?
[19:19:34] <jthornton> I just changed the apt line
[19:21:25] <jthornton> http://www.linuxcnc.org/docs/2.7/html/getting-started/index.html#_updating_linuxcnc
[19:24:07] <Tom_itx> thanks
[19:24:56] <Tom_itx> i had that marked somewhere but i've been switching pc's around and lost track of it
[20:22:50] <Jymmm> has anyone seen a cheap or even plastic 3 jaw lathe chuck?
[20:23:30] <malcom2073> I saw someone 3d print one once....
[20:24:06] <malcom2073> Subsection 3.d. of rule 34: If it exists, it will be 3d printed.
[20:24:36] <Jymmm> I just something inexpensive, up to 1" would be Great. I can't use a drill chuck as itpushes things forward
[20:25:06] <malcom2073> Small chucks tend to be more expensive, though I've seen them at auctions for under $40
[20:25:34] <malcom2073> My dad picked one up for $10 off a guy who won a lot and didn't even want it, it was like a 5"
[20:26:07] <Jymmm> Good idea.
[20:26:32] <Jymmm> I really just need one for tiny parts
[20:26:40] <malcom2073> He was looking for something for a 4th axis, he's got a couple small onesnow
[20:26:53] <malcom2073> Oh you mean 1", like 1" total size, or 1" part size?
[20:27:16] <Jymmm> 1" part size would be fine
[20:27:51] <malcom2073> haha
[20:27:55] <malcom2073> horriblefreight has one: http://www.harborfreight.com/2-inch-mini-lathe-chuck-with-mt-1-shank-65132.html
[20:28:00] <Jymmm> I just need a glorified 1/2" drill chuck
[20:28:32] <andypugh> http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Soba-70-mm-4-Jaw-Self-Centering-Scroll-lathe-Chuck-FROM-CHRONOS-/301316007966?_trksid=p2141725.m3641.l6368
[20:28:52] <malcom2073> What is the purpose of a 4 jaw scroll chuck?
[20:28:58] <Jymmm> malcom2073: IT doesn't evne close in the pic =(
[20:29:01] <andypugh> I have no idea
[20:29:06] <_methods> 5c collet block
[20:29:09] <malcom2073> Lol yeah Jymmm, noticed that.
[20:29:33] <_methods> it's for sq parts
[20:29:41] <_methods> like a 3 jaw chuck for sq stuff
[20:29:45] <malcom2073> Oh
[20:29:47] <malcom2073> True
[20:29:47] <Jymmm> lol
[20:30:13] <malcom2073> How often is stuff truely square?
[20:30:41] <_methods> never that's why you use a 4 jaw scroll
[20:30:51] <_methods> it's hardly accurate
[20:30:54] <malcom2073> heh
[20:31:28] <malcom2073> So you use the 4 jaw to turn down square blocks, then stick it in the 3 jaw after it's round?
[20:31:30] <andypugh> I guess you clamp on two sides and have not too much wobble on the other two
[20:31:48] <_methods> no sometimes you just need to drill,tap a square bar
[20:31:53] <_methods> then part it off
[20:31:55] <Jymmm> malcom2073: look familure? http://www.ebay.com/itm/Precision-Machined-2-Steel-Mini-Lathe-Chuck-MT1-Shank-2-Chuck-Key-PLEASE-READ-/151514418400
[20:32:09] <malcom2073> Lawl Jymmm, I've been noticing a LOT of that lately
[20:32:19] <malcom2073> 23 sold though, it obviously works as a business model
[20:34:47] <Jymmm> PT BARNUM LIVES!!!
[20:36:06] <Jymmm> malcom2073: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/There%27s_a_sucker_born_every_minute
[20:36:19] <malcom2073> Jymmm: I figured that's what I meant
[20:36:21] <malcom2073> what you*
[20:36:25] <Jymmm> =)
[20:36:55] <malcom2073> I feel like I need to start ripping people off
[20:36:56] <malcom2073> I'd make more money
[20:37:24] <Jymmm> malcom2073: just offer them a shitty product at an inflated prices
[20:37:42] <malcom2073> I don't have any shitty products :/
[20:37:43] <Jymmm> then give them 40% off.... PROFIT!
[20:38:06] <Jymmm> malcom2073: you have a scrap bin, don't ya?
[20:38:22] <malcom2073> I write software
[20:38:28] <malcom2073> So.... sorta?
[20:38:44] <Jymmm> there ya go, pl buy shitty sw all the time.
[20:38:48] <Jymmm> ppl*
[20:39:02] <malcom2073> True story
[20:39:07] <malcom2073> I need to hire a marketing person
[20:39:09] <malcom2073> that'd do it
[20:39:18] <malcom2073> I'm too honest
[20:39:20] <malcom2073> marketing people aren't
[20:39:20] <Jymmm> yep
[20:39:26] <Jymmm> nope
[20:39:29] <malcom2073> I always charge too little
[20:40:11] <malcom2073> Ohhh
[20:40:16] <malcom2073> I should buy software and resell at inflated prices
[20:40:18] <malcom2073> that's legal, right?
[20:40:35] <Jymmm> as long as you dont read the EULA
[20:40:58] <Jymmm> bu then you wouldn't be the END USER now would you?
[20:41:02] <malcom2073> True
[20:41:14] <malcom2073> There's no MMLA (middle-man)
[20:41:37] <Jymmm> None that you agreed to anyway =)
[20:41:50] <malcom2073> If you never install it, you never click agree
[20:42:47] <Jymmm> I should go find 20,000 copies of NT4.0 at the surplus store for $10, and then request a refund from M$ for the MSRP because I don't agree with the license
[20:43:12] <malcom2073> lol
[20:43:15] <malcom2073> good luck
[20:43:32] <Jymmm> Hey, even at $1 each, that's still $20K
[20:55:11] <Tom_L> http://www.ebay.com/itm/231535370702
[20:55:18] <Tom_L> can those be used as a regular reamer
[20:55:29] <Tom_L> or what is their intended purpose?
[20:55:54] <_methods> they're adjustable reamers and they suck
[20:55:55] <andypugh> Adjustable reamers
[20:56:07] <andypugh> They have some uses
[20:56:24] <Tom_L> they wouldn't take the place of a regular reamer though right?
[20:56:37] <Tom_L> where do they 'shine' in life?
[20:56:50] <andypugh> But I think you need to buy either old ones or expensive ones. The cheap ones are useless
[20:56:50] <_methods> in a bind
[20:56:59] <Tom_L> heh
[20:57:24] <_methods> i've never had any luck with them
[20:57:43] <andypugh> The cheap sets have undersize squares
[20:57:59] <andypugh> And the blades rock and jam
[20:58:00] <Tom_L> i've seen them but never used one
[20:58:08] <Tom_L> i figured they probably would andypugh
[21:00:26] <_methods> every time i try using one they either screw up the bore or cut oversize
[21:00:29] <_methods> or jam
[21:00:40] <_methods> so i've pretty much just given up on them
[21:01:01] <_methods> if i need to ream anything at this point in life i just order the right sized reamer and wait
[21:03:55] <Tom_itx> _methods, so do i
[21:04:13] <Tom_itx> someone was asking and i didn't have experience with them
[21:04:42] <Tom_itx> i can get 2 or 3 used reamers for the price of a new one locally
[21:04:49] <andypugh> I tend to bore instead
[21:04:58] <Tom_itx> so i usually go to the used tool guy here and get what i need
[21:05:13] <Tom_itx> i don't have a good boring head
[21:05:18] <Tom_itx> or one at all :)
[21:05:25] <andypugh> I have two lovely ones
[21:05:37] <Tom_itx> i've used them but i don't own one
[21:05:57] <zeeshan|2> since you guys are talking about tools for finishing
[21:06:00] <Tom_itx> we bored holes in Ti for some landing gear mount holes
[21:06:01] <zeeshan|2> what about using this:
[21:06:23] <zeeshan|2> http://www.amain.com/images/medium/dre/dre407.jpg
[21:06:27] <zeeshan|2> attaching that to a spindle
[21:06:30] <zeeshan|2> to finish bores?
[21:06:33] <_methods> yeah i'll use a boring head for low qty run or something
[21:06:34] <zeeshan|2> on a mill
[21:06:51] <andypugh> Tom_itx: Here you are : http://www.ebay.com/itm/Whalhaupter-UPA-3-w-30-Taper-Removable-Shank-A-0835-5-/161283346832?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item258d3c9190
[21:07:02] <andypugh> I have one just like that :-)
[21:07:21] <_methods> wow that's sexy
[21:07:55] <zeeshan|2> sorry andypugh
[21:08:00] <_methods> i got a couple nice little criterion boring heads
[21:08:02] <zeeshan|2> i have to put your boring head down
[21:08:02] <zeeshan|2> ;[
[21:08:07] <andypugh> And I have a UPA 4 too.
[21:08:17] <zeeshan|2> still gotta put that down!
[21:08:22] <zeeshan|2> are you ready?!
[21:08:48] <andypugh> http://www.ebay.com/itm/Wohlhaupter-UPA4-SK50-69871-z-B-Deckel-Frasmaschine-/380177205411?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_77&hash=item588453c8a3
[21:09:07] <andypugh> Yikes!
[21:09:28] <zeeshan|2> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tDZgg1XcKj8
[21:09:29] <zeeshan|2> dun dun dun
[21:09:30] <_methods> big bucks no whammies
[21:09:47] <zeeshan|2> forward to 11:23
[21:11:22] <Tom_itx> andypugh that's quite similar to the one we used
[21:11:33] <Tom_itx> ours had a 'micrometer' dial on the side
[21:11:54] <andypugh> Stuart S has one (looking very unloved)
[21:12:19] <zeeshan|2> what would make a more precise hole
[21:12:26] <zeeshan|2> a boring head or circular interpolation
[21:12:31] <zeeshan|2> considering how accurate machines are these days
[21:13:23] <andypugh> zeeshan|2: I see your D’Andrea and raise you my CNC Wohlhaupter. https://picasaweb.google.com/108164504656404380542/CNCUnsorted?noredirect=1#5998926150725388018
[21:13:36] <zeeshan|2> you beat me
[21:13:37] <zeeshan|2> ;[
[21:13:57] <andypugh> There is only one :-)
[21:14:00] <_methods> wow
[21:14:01] <_methods> wtf
[21:14:06] <zeeshan|2> andypugh: i think you have a boring head fetish
[21:14:08] <zeeshan|2> haha
[21:14:26] <_methods> that is a first
[21:14:30] <_methods> a cnc boring head
[21:16:07] <_methods> andypugh: wtf is that heating tube?
[21:16:08] <furrywolf> as fetishes go, that's pretty tame.
[21:16:23] <andypugh> _methods: Which one?
[21:16:33] <_methods> https://picasaweb.google.com/108164504656404380542/CNCUnsorted?noredirect=1#6083166615523564146
[21:16:42] <_methods> you wind it with nichrome?
[21:17:05] <andypugh> (I had to scratch-build the motor for the boring head) https://picasaweb.google.com/108164504656404380542/CNCUnsorted#?noredirect=15685034302549414130
[21:17:20] <_methods> ahh i like that brass block for the wire payoff
[21:17:45] <andypugh> The tube is this: http://bodgesoc.blogspot.co.uk/2014/11/heat-treatment-furnace.html
[21:18:21] <zeeshan|2> did you grind the gears
[21:18:23] <zeeshan|2> after heat treatment
[21:19:01] <andypugh> No. I don’t have the wherewithall
[21:19:11] <zeeshan|2> did you measure them before and after
[21:19:14] <zeeshan|2> like the diameter
[21:19:15] <andypugh> fixed URL for the borig-head motor: https://picasaweb.google.com/108164504656404380542/CNCUnsorted?noredirect=1#5685034302549414130
[21:19:18] <zeeshan|2> and face width
[21:20:05] <andypugh> EN8 is meant to not change shape much
[21:21:49] * furrywolf really needs to learn about alloys and heat treating one of these days
[21:21:59] <zeeshan|2> i have a book
[21:22:01] <zeeshan|2> if you want :P
[21:22:12] <zeeshan|2> but they all give you a bs answer
[21:22:19] <zeeshan|2> "shape is stable after heat treatment"
[21:22:27] <zeeshan|2> but they don't quantify it
[21:22:28] <zeeshan|2> :(
[21:22:33] <andypugh> EN8 doesn’t even exist any more.
[21:23:13] <zeeshan|2> well for example
[21:23:15] <zeeshan|2> 4340
[21:23:27] <zeeshan|2> machining a gear out of it, and case hardening it
[21:23:47] <zeeshan|2> id like to know how much it distorts :P
[21:24:00] <zeeshan|2> from what i understand, you just need to try it out and see
[21:26:25] <andypugh> But even though the specs were obsoleted 40 years ago, they are still in common use in the UK.
[21:27:41] <andypugh> The “EN” steel grades were “Emergency Numbers” from WW2. But folk got used to them. Possibly because higher-numbers = more expensive and “better"
[21:28:23] <andypugh> So I know that EN1A is mild steel, EN8 is decent quality steel and EN24 is a nice alloy steel for critical parts.
[21:28:38] <andypugh> http://www.roymech.co.uk/Useful_Tables/Matter/Strength_st.htm
[21:28:48] <_methods> andypugh: you converted a horizontal to cnc?
[21:29:04] <andypugh> It’s a Universal.
[21:29:07] <_methods> ahh
[21:29:15] <_methods> would you do it again?
[21:29:35] <andypugh> So CNC whether being a vertical, horizontal or hobbing machine.
[21:29:43] <andypugh> Yes, I am very happy with that machine.
[21:30:01] <andypugh> Though a faster spindle in Vertical mode would help.
[21:30:08] <zeeshan|2> how fast does it go
[21:30:15] <_methods> well there's an auction coming up with a couple horizontals i can probably grab for nothing
[21:30:29] <zeeshan|2> _methods: if you can get a verticle head for it
[21:30:31] <zeeshan|2> do it!
[21:30:35] <zeeshan|2> vertical
[21:30:49] <_methods> why.......
[21:30:59] <zeeshan|2> so you can do both?
[21:31:00] <_methods> i want it for horizontal not vertical
[21:31:09] <andypugh> Mine has the slow speed and the slow vertical adaptor, so 1000rpm. There were options of a 1500rpm base-speed and speed-up vertical to give 2500rpm which would be nicer.
[21:31:38] <zeeshan|2> you think overspeeding it to 5000
[21:31:41] <zeeshan|2> would cook the bearings?
[21:31:57] <andypugh> If you can get a horizontal with a swing-table then they hob gears very nicely with CNC
[21:32:07] <zeeshan|2> _methods: horizontal mode came useful: https://www.flickr.com/photos/128539016@N05/16047553003/
[21:32:12] <_methods> well i always hear people talking about waht a bad idea it is to convert an old manual
[21:32:13] <zeeshan|2> cause i wanted a curve
[21:32:23] <andypugh> The bearings get hot at 1000. I think I need to look at preloads and grease.
[21:33:06] <andypugh> _methods: You need the right old manual. :-)
[21:33:40] <_methods> well horizontals always seemed like good candidates to me
[21:33:48] <_methods> except the knee maybe
[21:34:00] <_methods> that might require some more effort to convert
[21:34:43] <_methods> last auction i went to i saw 2 horizontals go for $50/ea
[21:34:52] <andypugh> This is the gallery for mine: https://picasaweb.google.com/108164504656404380542/HarrisonMill
[21:34:58] <_methods> i know they had to be worth more in scrap
[21:35:37] <andypugh> I decided to do the job “right” with iron castings and decent servos.
[21:35:38] <zeeshan|2> that looks like a lot of work
[21:35:39] <zeeshan|2> :P
[21:36:06] <andypugh> yeah. It was done as a project in its own right.
[21:36:47] <zeeshan|2> im so jealous of your outboard support
[21:36:51] <zeeshan|2> mine didnt come with one :(
[21:38:29] <andypugh> For hobbing I wouldn’t be without it: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PFTHY5U8v-U
[21:38:47] <zeeshan|2> yep :(
[21:38:56] <PetefromTn_> That is a neat old mill fer sure
[21:39:10] <zeeshan|2> maybe i can build one
[21:39:12] <zeeshan|2> when i need it
[21:39:39] <_methods> PetefromTn_: you still want a rotab
[21:39:49] <_methods> how much you willing to pay
[21:39:55] * furrywolf needs a rotary table too
[21:39:57] <PetefromTn_> Yeah I guess if the price is right LOL
[21:40:02] <_methods> $800?
[21:40:05] <furrywolf> no
[21:40:15] <furrywolf> one too many zeroes for me.
[21:40:28] <zeeshan|2> im telling you furry
[21:40:30] <PetefromTn_> I am right in the middle of a project and it has taken me to reach into my pocket a bit
[21:40:32] <zeeshan|2> they are expensive!
[21:40:44] <_methods> well i'll see if i can grab a couple
[21:40:50] <_methods> i'll sit on it for you
[21:40:53] <zeeshan|2> PetefromTn_: what are you working on
[21:41:00] <_methods> but would you be cool with $800?
[21:41:10] <_methods> i think i can get one for less
[21:41:14] <andypugh> http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/271844612681 is rather cheap, and I think it’s SIP
[21:41:26] <PetefromTn_> If you can do that I am sure I could get the money to you eventually. Honestly it would depend on the unit and what it is.
[21:41:26] <_methods> there's 8 at the auction i'm going to
[21:41:44] <PetefromTn_> zeeshan|2 It's top Secret man ;)
[21:41:46] <zeeshan|2> _methods can i get cat40 holders?
[21:41:50] <furrywolf> I'm pretty well broke right now... between travelling to NJ, funeral costs, shipping of furniture, etc... and the people I work for forgot to pay anyone this week. "oops".
[21:41:55] <zeeshan|2> ;-)
[21:41:57] <_methods> you're a terrorist in canads
[21:42:00] <_methods> canada
[21:42:06] <_methods> i'm not giving you anything
[21:42:29] <PetefromTn_> Got someone coming in the morning to look at our house.
[21:42:37] <zeeshan|2> florida!
[21:42:48] <PetefromTn_> Spent most of the day cleaning and fixing stuff
[21:42:52] <andypugh> Time to sleep. Night all
[21:42:53] <PetefromTn_> Exactly!
[21:43:00] <_methods> we're mainly trying to get the keyseater
[21:43:01] <zeeshan|2> cya and
[21:43:02] <PetefromTn_> GN8 andy
[21:43:04] <_methods> but i'll grab what i can
[21:43:23] <_methods> i'm hopin to get a couple rotabs
[21:43:27] <_methods> and the keyseater
[21:43:30] <zeeshan|2> ive been looking out for 2 .75" cat40 shell mill holders
[21:43:35] <zeeshan|2> and 2 .75" end mill holders
[21:43:37] <zeeshan|2> ;/
[21:43:38] <PetefromTn_> _methods If you want I can get you my number and you can text me what you are looking at.
[21:43:46] <_methods> i don't really look at that stuff
[21:43:49] <_methods> k
[21:44:10] <zeeshan|2> man a dividing head went locally along with some other shit on a pallet
[21:44:11] <zeeshan|2> for $200
[21:44:16] <PetefromTn_> I have a 3/4 face mill/shell mill arbor.
[21:44:17] <zeeshan|2> i missed out on it
[21:44:22] <zeeshan|2> PetefromTn_: !
[21:44:28] <zeeshan|2> need a .5"?
[21:44:32] <zeeshan|2> =D
[21:44:43] <PetefromTn_> you just said .75?
[21:44:51] <zeeshan|2> yes, i have 2 .5"
[21:44:51] <zeeshan|2> and
[21:44:53] <zeeshan|2> 1.25"
[21:44:55] <furrywolf> the auctions here never have machine tools, because no one here has machine tools.
[21:44:56] <zeeshan|2> none of which i need
[21:45:01] <zeeshan|2> in mint condition
[21:45:10] <zeeshan|2> wondering if you could use those
[21:45:13] <_methods> lol
[21:45:17] <PetefromTn_> Oh you are asking if I need the .5..
[21:45:24] <_methods> there are like 8 auctions in california this week alone
[21:45:25] <roycroft> i just finished tapping the other 16 holes without incident
[21:45:28] <PetefromTn_> no honestly not really
[21:45:31] <roycroft> that's 32 in a row with the same tap
[21:45:32] <zeeshan|2> doh ;p
[21:45:40] <roycroft> before i changed brands i was breaking a tap every other hole or so
[21:45:48] <_methods> osg
[21:45:52] <PetefromTn_> I am working on a tough project right now...
[21:45:53] <roycroft> i like not breaking taps
[21:46:14] <_methods> only taps i use anymore
[21:46:25] <PetefromTn_> I gotta machine some large pockets that taper to tight corners with an 1/8 inch endmill.
[21:46:29] <_methods> i'd rather pay than chip out pieces of taps
[21:46:47] <PetefromTn_> its a radiused tip endmill
[21:46:49] <roycroft> it's hard to chip out bits of a 4-40 tap
[21:46:55] <PetefromTn_> and the material is Cast Iron..
[21:47:04] <roycroft> no edm here
[21:47:05] <_methods> yeah that's helicoil time lol
[21:47:09] <PetefromTn_> trying to find a good feed and speed for that.
[21:47:14] <_methods> 1/4" carbide endmill
[21:47:20] <_methods> and helicoil lol
[21:47:21] <zeeshan|2> what material?
[21:47:26] <PetefromTn_> Cast Iron
[21:47:28] <zeeshan|2> haha
[21:47:29] <zeeshan|2> haha
[21:47:30] <PetefromTn_> unfortunately
[21:47:31] <zeeshan|2> :-)
[21:47:37] <roycroft> the parts are only 0.20" thick
[21:47:44] <roycroft> a 1/2" carbide endmill would not do well for me
[21:47:47] <zeeshan|2> PetefromTn_: do you follow fswizard?
[21:47:50] <roycroft> er, 1/4"
[21:47:51] <PetefromTn_> I am gonna need to go .125 deep or so helical in
[21:47:51] <_methods> damn no helicoil then lol
[21:47:59] <zeeshan|2> ive been following it
[21:48:04] <zeeshan|2> and reducing by 75%
[21:48:07] <zeeshan|2> and seems to be fine for me
[21:48:08] <furrywolf> grrr. why is downloading music so hard? I'm looking for the album "Really?" by "The Hundred Days" and "Until The World Is Beautiful" by "The Prids"...
[21:48:10] <roycroft> if the parts were thicker i'd use bigger screws
[21:48:11] <PetefromTn_> then kinda light engagement full dept on the whole pocket
[21:48:32] <PetefromTn_> I use it but not that much really
[21:48:33] <roycroft> there seems to be a huge difference in the ease of tapping a 4-40 hole and a 6-32 hole without incident
[21:48:50] <PetefromTn_> most of the parts I make are aluminum and I have good feeds and speeds info that I kinda stick to.
[21:49:10] <_methods> yeah 4-40 is tiny
[21:49:14] <_methods> easy to break
[21:49:16] <zeeshan|2> PetefromTn_: to get a feel
[21:49:18] <PetefromTn_> what would you guys recommend for that cut
[21:49:21] <zeeshan|2> if you using a 3/8 end mill
[21:49:23] <furrywolf> I've never tapped a 4-40 hole... I think 6-32 is the smallest I've done.
[21:49:31] <zeeshan|2> and you're slotting, whats your feed and speed?
[21:49:36] <zeeshan|2> (for aluminum)_
[21:49:39] <zeeshan|2> and doc
[21:49:40] <_methods> what are you doing PetefromTn_
[21:49:43] <roycroft> 6-32 is like go slow and be careful
[21:49:49] <_methods> pocket?
[21:49:56] <roycroft> 4-40 is like breathe too hard and it's broken
[21:49:59] <_methods> you're having problems with a cast iron pocket?
[21:50:01] <roycroft> or look at it too hard
[21:50:21] <PetefromTn_> well I am cutting 1/8 inch radiused tip endmill in cast iron making a large pocket with tight corners requiring the 1/8 endmill
[21:50:37] <roycroft> and i've tapped about 200 4-40 holes for this project
[21:50:38] <PetefromTn_> .125 deep or so
[21:50:43] <_methods> are you just restmilling with the 1/8" mill?
[21:50:53] <_methods> or are you trying to do the whole pocket with it
[21:50:56] <zeeshan|2> i do full axial doc, .003ipt chipload, 300sfm (max speed my machine can handle)
[21:51:00] <roycroft> all blind, all 0.500" deep
[21:51:00] <PetefromTn_> and I am trying to program a full depth pass with a helical in
[21:51:01] <zeeshan|2> for aluminum
[21:51:26] <zeeshan|2> works out to like 38ipm for a 4 flute
[21:51:32] <PetefromTn_> Honeslty I don't want to just finish with the endmill but I may have to
[21:51:52] <_methods> well i try to use the biggest end mill i can
[21:51:57] <furrywolf> how slow of reversing will linuxcnc put up with for rigid tapping? I plan on only having software spindle on/off on my shoptask, no reversing, so it'd need to stop, let me manually flip the reverse switch, start, back out of the hole, then stop and let me reverse manually again.
[21:51:59] <_methods> for roughing
[21:52:10] <_methods> then finish with small stuff
[21:52:21] <_methods> how many parts?
[21:52:24] <PetefromTn_> Zeeshan I usually run the 3/8 endmill as fast as I can which is around 5500 RPM at about 40 IPM full DOC whenever possible
[21:52:32] <zeeshan|2> nice
[21:52:34] <zeeshan|2> so we're kinda close
[21:52:37] <zeeshan|2> just less sfm
[21:52:39] <zeeshan|2> for me..
[21:52:43] <PetefromTn_> Well honestly this is a prototype
[21:52:55] <_methods> oh one off?
[21:53:00] <PetefromTn_> so right now it is just one but if it works out we will be making a bunch of them.
[21:53:04] <_methods> shit just go slow and git'r done
[21:53:09] <zeeshan|2> do you have .125 carbide?
[21:53:18] <PetefromTn_> I know but I gotta be able to reproduce
[21:53:19] <zeeshan|2> or hss
[21:53:29] <PetefromTn_> yeah .125 Tialn Coated Carbide
[21:53:35] <PetefromTn_> Maritool cutters
[21:53:47] <zeeshan|2> i guess 2 flute
[21:53:50] <_methods> how big is the pocket?
[21:54:05] <PetefromTn_> Right now the face of this part is almost two hours run time as far as the simulator goes.
[21:54:33] <PetefromTn_> its a funky shaped pocket that is several square inches in total with alot of tight areas.
[21:54:50] <zeeshan|2> whats the max rpm of your machine
[21:54:53] <_methods> well i'd definitely rough it out with a larger mill
[21:55:00] <_methods> that will cut your time
[21:55:27] <PetefromTn_> I have some 3/8 inch YSJ or whatever those are called I can use.
[21:55:43] <PetefromTn_> There use will be quite limited due to the shapes and tightness of the pockets.
[21:55:44] <_methods> ysj?
[21:55:48] <zeeshan|2> yg1?!
[21:55:50] <zeeshan|2> sex
[21:55:51] <PetefromTn_> Yeah
[21:56:01] <PetefromTn_> sorry my brain is unplugged
[21:56:07] <_methods> real yg1 or ghetto ebay knockoff
[21:56:09] <zeeshan|2> i was raping 304 ss with it
[21:56:23] <PetefromTn_> says Yg1 on the package ;)
[21:56:28] <zeeshan|2> i love how the cutting edge is sharp on them
[21:56:29] <_methods> heheh
[21:56:35] <zeeshan|2> feels sharper than china end mills
[21:56:49] <_methods> yeah rough it with the biggest mill you can
[21:56:55] <PetefromTn_> my experience with them has been nothing but positive
[21:57:08] <_methods> leave .02" on the walls and floor
[21:57:19] <_methods> and then finish it all out with the small one
[21:57:32] <_methods> that way you don't have to worry about blend lines
[21:57:41] <zeeshan|2> PetefromTn_: im feeling .125 axial doc, .030" radial doc, 5500 rpm, 3.5 ipm
[21:57:48] <_methods> still won't be as fast as doing a rough mill/rest mill
[21:57:48] <zeeshan|2> for the 1/8
[21:57:54] <PetefromTn_> the biggest problem is I don't want to be pussy footing around with the 1/8 endmill in the tight areas and no matter what I do there will be places where it will be full slot
[21:58:08] <zeeshan|2> ;[
[21:58:30] <_methods> drill out the corners
[21:58:49] <_methods> just stay .01"+ off the wall
[21:58:50] <PetefromTn_> honestly I have had to make a very precise drawing from scratch and spent a bunch of time on it. Just finished a fixture today for it and gotta make the cuts tomorrow after we show the house.
[21:59:05] <zeeshan|2> vacuum the chips!
[21:59:13] <PetefromTn_> yeah that is the other issue.
[21:59:17] <zeeshan|2> lube just makes it worse
[21:59:23] <zeeshan|2> shit chunks up in there
[21:59:24] <PetefromTn_> I want to do that but I hear coolant is best.
[21:59:42] <zeeshan|2> mist would be best
[21:59:52] <PetefromTn_> No idea what to do for speeds and feeds really.
[22:00:10] <zeeshan|2> pete those specs i gave you
[22:00:17] <zeeshan|2> i machined o-ring grooves with those specs
[22:00:31] <_methods> just read the datasheet for your end mill
[22:00:33] <zeeshan|2> 2" diameter by 1/8" wide
[22:00:40] <zeeshan|2> and 70% of 1/8" deep
[22:00:46] <zeeshan|2> and had no issues
[22:00:55] <zeeshan|2> but i was doing full width of cut
[22:01:22] <PetefromTn_> http://www.maritool.com/Cutting-Tools-End-Mills-Corner-Radius-End-Mills-4-Flute-TIALN-Coated/c78_79_157_158/p1141/.125-Diameter-End-Mill-X-.020-Corner-Radius-X-.500-L.O.C/product_info.html
[22:01:49] <Tom_itx> bull nose
[22:02:08] <zeeshan|2> i personally think 4 flute is a bad idea
[22:02:11] <zeeshan|2> not saying it wont work
[22:02:16] <zeeshan|2> just more cutting force
[22:02:16] <Tom_itx> why?
[22:02:19] <PetefromTn_> yeah its sort of a bullnose
[22:02:20] <zeeshan|2> the one that tries to break your end mill
[22:02:36] <_methods> heh no cutting data nice
[22:03:04] <zeeshan|2> Tom_itx: 2 flute cutter 80lb feed force vs 4 flute cutter ~160lb feed force -- more deflection of cutter
[22:03:06] <zeeshan|2> higher chance of breaking
[22:03:20] <zeeshan|2> especially if your exit and entry isnt right
[22:03:28] <Tom_itx> i wouldn't use a 2flute in steel
[22:03:37] <zeeshan|2> steel is a different story :p
[22:03:41] <PetefromTn_> I bought six of them just in case ;)
[22:03:48] <_methods> http://www.niagaracutter.com/solidcarbide/speedfeed.html
[22:03:49] <Tom_itx> you only need one
[22:03:51] <PetefromTn_> cast iron
[22:04:15] <furrywolf> apparantly I suck at downloading music. what do people here do when they need music?
[22:04:25] <zeeshan|2> furrywolf: go to the store and buy
[22:04:25] <zeeshan|2> :-)
[22:04:26] <_methods> 300sfm
[22:04:27] * zeeshan|2 hides
[22:04:44] <Tom_itx> if i want it quick i get it from youtube
[22:04:45] <_methods> .0005"/tooth
[22:04:46] <PetefromTn_> says 80-100
[22:04:50] <Tom_itx> and record it
[22:04:54] <PetefromTn_> yeah .0005 tooth
[22:04:59] <_methods> 80-100?
[22:05:06] <_methods> you looking at cast iron
[22:05:06] <PetefromTn_> 80-140
[22:05:11] <_methods> says 100-400
[22:05:13] <zeeshan|2> i see 80-140 :)
[22:05:13] <furrywolf> zeeshan|2: I doubt most of what I want is available in stores.
[22:05:21] <furrywolf> we only have one music store left, and it sucks.
[22:05:27] <_methods> that's over 32
[22:05:27] <PetefromTn_> yeah its apparently a tougher cast iron
[22:05:37] <_methods> is it over 32 hrc
[22:05:41] <PetefromTn_> no idea
[22:05:45] <zeeshan|2> probably :P
[22:05:50] <_methods> probably not
[22:05:54] * zeeshan|2 works on exhaust manifolds
[22:05:56] <zeeshan|2> they are hard as shit
[22:06:15] <Tom_itx> maybe they're work hardened too
[22:06:18] <PetefromTn_> it says add 60-100 percent for Tialn
[22:06:24] <furrywolf> I need to replace the exhaust manifold on my truck... I managed to find one (not easy!), but it's going to be a project to get the old one off.
[22:06:38] <zeeshan|2> furrywolf: lots of heat
[22:06:38] <zeeshan|2> !
[22:06:50] <_methods> well go to the low side then
[22:06:50] <PetefromTn_> not exhaust manifolds
[22:06:51] <zeeshan|2> and imean oxy acetylene heat
[22:06:57] <zeeshan|2> not propane heat
[22:07:02] <zeeshan|2> mapp gas works too
[22:07:12] <Rab> furrywolf, tighten bolts/studs slightly before loosening.
[22:07:16] <furrywolf> they don't sell mapp anymore. heh.
[22:07:17] <_methods> go with 100sfm and .0005"
[22:07:36] <_methods> and if it's going good crank it up
[22:08:03] <zeeshan|2> i think youll be fine at 180sfm
[22:08:07] <zeeshan|2> especially with tialn
[22:08:09] <PetefromTn_> this will be .125 deep or so and full width in places. Mostly it will be helical down to depth and then say 10 percent or less engagement on side
[22:08:44] <PetefromTn_> but you gotta get to depth and make the first slot pass to get there
[22:09:15] <furrywolf> after 47 years of exhaust temperature, the nuts and the studs have become one.
[22:09:21] <zeeshan|2> hahahaha
[22:09:25] <zeeshan|2> hahahaha
[22:09:47] <zeeshan|2> heat heat heat
[22:09:57] <zeeshan|2> i learned the technique from my mechanic friend
[22:10:06] <zeeshan|2> who's shown me some seriously messed up situations
[22:10:16] <zeeshan|2> makes it look easy now
[22:10:25] <zeeshan|2> the one truck that will always snap bolts no matter what
[22:10:27] <zeeshan|2> is the ford 150
[22:10:43] <zeeshan|2> you can find replacement stud kits for them at almost any part store for that reason :)
[22:10:44] <PetefromTn_> whew glad I got a Bronco then hehe
[22:11:00] <furrywolf> many nissans will snap the manifold bolts randomly, just driving.
[22:11:09] <zeeshan|2> really?
[22:11:13] <zeeshan|2> the sr20 240sx motor
[22:11:18] <zeeshan|2> they use some serious stuff for the turbo manifolds
[22:11:20] * furrywolf notes a bronco and a f150 are identical from the B pillar forwards...
[22:11:20] <zeeshan|2> *manifold
[22:11:30] <furrywolf> mostly the hardbody pickups iirc.
[22:12:32] <PetefromTn_> _methods SO you think 100 SFPM should work okay? How much cast iron have you machined?
[22:13:25] <furrywolf> http://repairpal.com/exhaust-manifold-can-warp-and-cause-the-studs-to-break-off-252
[22:14:12] <furrywolf> http://www.infamousnissan.com/forum/showthread.php?t=27852
[22:14:23] <furrywolf> "nissan used really small studs and they almost always break with age"
[22:15:57] <furrywolf> I don't know if I've ever seen one with a full complement of studs. heh.
[22:16:42] <zeeshan|2> http://i.imgur.com/XZc0MJ0.png
[22:16:51] <zeeshan|2> for fun iwanted to see how long a chamfer would take using a flat end mill
[22:16:56] <furrywolf> bah, time to pull the woofer from my pioneer. it's gone from an occasional rattle to mostly dead with occasional pops of life.
[22:16:58] <zeeshan|2> using .001 steps
[22:17:01] <zeeshan|2> (scallops)
[22:17:04] <zeeshan|2> 1 hour!!!
[22:17:09] <zeeshan|2> thats a 2" diameter hole
[22:17:25] <furrywolf> try .010 instead. :P
[22:17:28] <zeeshan|2> haha
[22:17:29] <furrywolf> or larger
[22:17:33] <PetefromTn_> zeeshan|2 What material would be comparable in FSwizard to the ductile cast iron?
[22:17:54] <furrywolf> and use a bullnose endmill
[22:19:01] <_methods> ive machined a lot of cast and never had an issue
[22:19:27] <PetefromTn_> FSWizard is saying 5500 RPM and 5.6IPM????
[22:19:48] <zeeshan|2> PetefromTn_: cast iron 250-260 bhn
[22:19:51] <zeeshan|2> if you think its hard
[22:20:18] <zeeshan|2> PetefromTn_: i dont fully trust fswizard
[22:20:21] <PetefromTn_> Good Lord that is slow
[22:20:39] <zeeshan|2> what is it saying for tool deflection
[22:20:40] <zeeshan|2> on the right
[22:20:44] <zeeshan|2> and cutting force
[22:21:01] <_methods> yeah sorry i dont even know what fswizard is
[22:21:14] <zeeshan|2> fswizard i think grabs its data from what people have used
[22:21:17] <PetefromTn_> http://i.imgur.com/09AlTSJ.jpg
[22:21:18] <zeeshan|2> in hsmwworks.
[22:21:29] <zeeshan|2> 1.90lb cuttinf roce
[22:21:30] <zeeshan|2> haha
[22:21:31] <zeeshan|2> thats nothing
[22:21:39] <zeeshan|2> i hope by cutting force they mean feed force.
[22:22:02] <zeeshan|2> .0003 in perfect
[22:22:18] <zeeshan|2> that width of cut is pretty weak though, you want that at 100% cause you're slotting
[22:22:28] <zeeshan|2> (maybe you can change it in your g-code while you slot)
[22:23:11] <PetefromTn_> Slot it says the same thing actually
[22:23:20] <zeeshan|2> what does it sayu for cutting force
[22:23:22] <zeeshan|2> and deflection though
[22:23:30] <zeeshan|2> smaller cutters are really limited by that
[22:23:48] <PetefromTn_> 12.49 and .0022
[22:23:53] <zeeshan|2> too much
[22:23:58] <PetefromTn_> yup
[22:24:10] <zeeshan|2> youll be okay with that, but theres no give
[22:24:16] <zeeshan|2> a sudden change in cutting forces and itll snap
[22:24:21] <zeeshan|2> .001" deflection is safer
[22:25:12] * zeeshan|2 isn't trying to bullshit, me just took a course and saw a lot of this stuff from a physics and experimental work perspective, and realized i didnt know crap!
[22:25:13] <PetefromTn_> I think I am gonna have to gut it out with a 3/8 and then come back with the 1/8 bullnose and finish the pocket being careful in the corners.
[22:25:25] <zeeshan|2> PetefromTn_: in your cam
[22:25:30] <zeeshan|2> do you have a tool path called "plunge"
[22:25:41] <PetefromTn_> huh?
[22:25:42] <zeeshan|2> instead of going sideways with the milling cutter
[22:25:46] <zeeshan|2> go straight down
[22:25:56] <zeeshan|2> you can hog a lot of material like that
[22:26:01] <PetefromTn_> I usually drill for that.
[22:26:26] <zeeshan|2> well you cant drill something
[22:26:27] <zeeshan|2> at the edge
[22:26:34] <zeeshan|2> unless you have a drill bushing
[22:26:35] <PetefromTn_> I am gonna play with the 3/8 pocket and then come back with the 1/8 endmill tomorrow morning.
[22:26:37] <_methods> 3100rpm 6ipm
[22:27:01] <PetefromTn_> jeez I was hoping for at least 10 IPM
[22:27:02] <_methods> thats very conservative i think
[22:27:24] <_methods> thats 100sfm .0005/tooth
[22:27:44] <PetefromTn_> I was also thinking I would screw around with this test piece manually tomorrow on the machine testing feeds and speeds...
[22:27:58] <_methods> if yo h
[22:28:14] <zeeshan|2> PetefromTn_: do it like me
[22:28:16] <PetefromTn_> ?
[22:28:28] <zeeshan|2> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KKvyZzNsToE
[22:28:30] <_methods> if you have end mills to test with go 400sfm
[22:28:34] <PetefromTn_> I try very hard to NOT do it like you Zeeshan LOL..
[22:28:36] <zeeshan|2> ^ video shows my laziness
[22:28:52] <zeeshan|2> i rarely do stuff properly when it comes to my own stuff lol
[22:29:03] <zeeshan|2> i try to find the fastest way that'll get the job done
[22:29:13] <_methods> sorry in bed trying to type on tablet
[22:29:37] <PetefromTn_> LOL been there...
[22:29:49] <zeeshan|2> haha 1 clamp holding it man
[22:29:59] <zeeshan|2> its like you know it will happen
[22:30:00] <zeeshan|2> but you do it anyway
[22:30:25] <PetefromTn_> I had a piece fly out a couple weeks ago due to not holding it carefully enough. Scared the crap out of my wife when she heard the BANG.
[22:30:42] <zeeshan|2> how big
[22:30:45] <furrywolf> yay! I think I just have a bad tinsel.
[22:30:48] <_methods> 400sfm = 12krpm 24ipm
[22:31:02] <PetefromTn_> hehe
[22:31:08] <PetefromTn_> yeah right
[22:31:17] <furrywolf> any way to repair a bad tinsel without cutting off the perfect, dent-free dust cap?
[22:31:17] <PetefromTn_> I WISH I had 12k
[22:31:26] <_methods> heheh
[22:31:33] <_methods> me too
[22:31:44] <_methods> and thru spindle
[22:31:50] <_methods> and 5 axis
[22:31:57] <furrywolf> and a money tree.
[22:32:02] <zeeshan|2> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bvpQMjv470M
[22:32:04] <zeeshan|2> this shit doesnt make sense to me
[22:32:12] <zeeshan|2> 230 ipm
[22:32:15] <zeeshan|2> @ 17000 rpm
[22:32:16] <zeeshan|2> lol
[22:32:18] <PetefromTn_> Hell if I had that I would not be doing this shit LOL
[22:32:20] <zeeshan|2> that looks like a 3/8 end mill
[22:32:25] <zeeshan|2> and that looks like steel.
[22:33:00] <PetefromTn_> Mastercam is the Shiznit.
[22:33:17] <zeeshan|2> well i dont understand
[22:33:23] <zeeshan|2> how they can run like 3 times the feed
[22:33:30] <zeeshan|2> okay part of it is the high rpm
[22:33:41] <zeeshan|2> but still that explains half of it
[22:33:51] <zeeshan|2> maybe its to do with cutting forces?
[22:34:56] <PetefromTn_> When I work in the other shops they have Mastercam and I have used their high speed toolpaths quite a bit. It is most impressive.
[22:36:42] <zeeshan|2> i honestly havent tried em
[22:37:02] <zeeshan|2> just been doing 2d paths at diff heights
[22:37:04] <PetefromTn_> I especially like the core milling ops
[22:39:22] <zeeshan|2> thats in hsmworks too i think
[22:39:35] <PetefromTn_> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9UKMRZRUHwg Cast iron milling LOL
[22:39:51] <zeeshan|2> you know youre milling it fast
[22:39:56] <zeeshan|2> when it comes out in big ass chips like that
[22:39:58] <zeeshan|2> and not a powder!
[22:40:48] <zeeshan|2> thats like a $1000 chunk of cast iron
[22:40:49] <zeeshan|2> isnt it
[22:41:10] <PetefromTn_> dunno
[22:41:18] <PetefromTn_> wouldn't think so..
[22:41:26] <PetefromTn_> isn't it pretty cheap usually
[22:41:36] <zeeshan|2> well i know the rounds
[22:41:40] <zeeshan|2> are much more expensive than steel
[22:41:41] * zeeshan|2 checks
[22:41:46] <PetefromTn_> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zbwrmjxN8-w
[22:43:14] <furrywolf> I guess I'm going to have to cut off the dust cap, but if I do that and poke the tinsel through the cone again, it'll be too short... so first step is ordering a roll of tinsel.
[22:43:19] <zeeshan|2> http://www.speedymetals.com/pc-4305-8389-6-14-sq-gray-cast-iron-class-40.aspx
[22:43:29] <zeeshan|2> 6.25x6.25x12" $205.63
[22:44:07] <zeeshan|2> http://www.speedymetals.com/pc-4252-8250-6-sq-a-36-1020-hot-rolled-steel.aspx
[22:44:12] <zeeshan|2> 312.76
[22:44:13] <zeeshan|2> youre right
[22:44:15] <zeeshan|2> it is cheaper
[22:44:20] <zeeshan|2> not sure why i thought it was more expensive
[22:45:23] <PetefromTn_> I know the first shop I worked in made a bunch of cast plate parts but I was not involved in that stuff while I was there.
[22:45:36] <zeeshan|2> dude that hogger
[22:45:38] <zeeshan|2> is raping the cast iron
[22:45:39] <zeeshan|2> wow
[22:45:39] <PetefromTn_> they said it was a lot cheaper and more stable than plate steel..
[22:46:02] <PetefromTn_> yeah makes me wonder if I should try my 3/8 hogger on this project
[22:46:11] <zeeshan|2> i would!
[22:46:15] <zeeshan|2> after seeing that video
[22:46:23] <furrywolf> do I want 1ft for $5, plenty for one speaker, or 10ft for $13? lol
[22:46:54] <zeeshan|2> PetefromTn_: thumb of rule 1% of diameter of cutter = max deflection you want for carbide
[22:46:55] <PetefromTn_> Well thanks guys I am gonna hit the sack so I can get up and get some more work done on the house before we show it tomorrow afternoon.
[22:47:06] <zeeshan|2> so that 3/8 can do some serious damage :d
[22:47:10] <zeeshan|2> cu!
[22:47:13] <PetefromTn_> sure thanks
[22:47:23] <PetefromTn_> Gn8
[22:47:36] <zeeshan|2> furrywolf: tinsel sounds very girly
[22:47:54] <furrywolf> ok.
[22:48:24] <furrywolf> do you have a problem with that? :P
[22:48:45] <zeeshan|2> http://st.depositphotos.com/2019997/3230/i/950/depositphotos_32301779-Four-tinsel-garlands.jpg
[22:48:49] <zeeshan|2> youre talking about this yea?
[22:49:01] <zeeshan|2> lol
[22:49:05] <zeeshan|2> or the speaker wire
[22:49:26] * furrywolf introduces zeeshan to the concept of "context"
[22:49:29] <zeeshan|2> hahaha
[22:49:39] <zeeshan|2> furrywolf: im almost acting like renesis
[22:49:43] <zeeshan|2> calling everything a relay.
[22:50:17] <furrywolf> lol
[22:52:17] <furrywolf> people really don't appreciate older speakers as much as they should... these little pioneers have well over an inch of cone travel.
[22:55:49] <renesis> furrywolf: its probably not linear cone travel
[22:56:15] <renesis> and old speakers tend to be simple motor designs with not the greatest soft parts
[22:56:33] <renesis> like, theile small parameters and most testing were done at 1 watt
[22:57:03] <renesis> and they didnt have any easy ways to test for non linearities versus amplitude, so they didnt try very hard
[22:57:40] <furrywolf> yep. but it's still impressive. I didn't expect it.
[22:57:41] <renesis> like, everything is better now
[22:58:30] <furrywolf> I'm happy it's fixable... was expecting a bad voice coil, but it's just a broken tinsel at the cone. ordering some tinsel now.
[22:58:41] <renesis> i didnt read far enough up to see problem
[22:58:54] <renesis> tinsel leads are the hardest part of speakers =\
[22:59:53] <furrywolf> I've repaired a couple... the hardest part is trying to make it not look like fucking shit. you have to cut off the nice perfect factory-clean dust cap...
[23:00:16] <renesis> to long and they slap or jumprope or even short, too short and they can add non-linearityor even rock the cone enough to eventually crash shit
[23:00:24] <renesis> whatever make it look like shit
[23:00:38] <renesis> in dev we usually cover the connector ends in RTV or similar
[23:01:10] <furrywolf> most RTV releases acetic acid and corrodes copper. never use hardware store rtv on wiring.
[23:01:17] <renesis> also they dont always route like that
[23:01:37] <renesis> dunno we have some clear silicone shit, never been a problem
[23:01:51] <furrywolf> it's good quality tinsel... feels like silver wire on cotton core. just fatigued with age and use.
[23:02:13] <renesis> well yeah it all dies
[23:02:30] <furrywolf> I don't see any copper color on the ends... might actually be solid silver not just tinned.
[23:02:30] <renesis> when the ones wozen into the spiders go it gets pretty dramatic
[23:02:57] <renesis> the stich tacked ones are drama, too
[23:03:31] <furrywolf> I'm going to buy 5ft, since I have a speaker in storage that needs tinsel too. it broke, I soldered it, it broke again, I soldered it again, then it was too short. heh.
[23:03:48] <renesis> heh, a friend did one with like beryllium copper spiral spider thing
[23:04:05] <renesis> like, the spider was the tinsel, kinda
[23:04:29] <norias> spiders and tinsel
[23:04:37] <norias> what kinda weirdo stuff are ya'll doing?
[23:04:44] <renesis> well no tinself because conductive spider
[23:04:49] <norias> decorating insects for anti-christmas
[23:04:55] <renesis> ya
[23:05:23] * renesis hangs dancy blinky ghosts with sound effects
[23:06:19] <renesis> furrywolf: also you can heatshrink the ends
[23:06:57] <renesis> soldering can be problematic because itll wick up the tinself and create a local stress point at the end of the soldered section
[23:07:15] <furrywolf> I hate cutting perfect dust caps. when they're beat up or pushed in, whatever... but this one is 40 years old and looks like it just came off the factory floor.
[23:07:59] <renesis> like stranded core wire, but worse, so you can put heatshrink a bit past the solder joint and it helps insrease the bend radius there, reduce the stress
[23:08:27] <renesis> dunno furry if cut probably hundreds of speakers with blades
[23:08:31] <renesis> its kinda fun
[23:08:52] <renesis> i dont hesitate when i know its time, seems to make some people uncomfortable
[23:09:35] <furrywolf> I might have to try carefully brushing acetone around the edges and seeing if I can unglue it. :P
[23:10:01] <renesis> would avoid
[23:10:21] <renesis> are you getting replacement dustcaps?
[23:10:34] <renesis> could just cut the centers out of these and glue a slightly larger one on
[23:10:53] <furrywolf> hell no. I'm spending as little money as possible.
[23:11:25] <renesis> if you get most of the original off it wont change the moving mass enough to matter, and besides that the theille small parameters probably all drifted anyway
[23:11:29] <renesis> oh
[23:11:43] <renesis> its a hard dusctcap? non permeable?
[23:11:48] <furrywolf> to give you an idea of my cheapness, my car has a speaker with a broken poly cone... split clean from the voice coil to the surround... repaired with polybond epoxy. :P
[23:11:53] <renesis> if its not a vented pole you can just remove it
[23:12:15] <furrywolf> (door speaker; someone put their foot through it)
[23:12:19] <renesis> well, least that will tune it a bit lower
[23:12:36] <renesis> lose some sensitivity
[23:12:51] <furrywolf> http://i58.tinypic.com/a0wgtg.jpg lol
[23:13:13] * furrywolf gives that about an hour
[23:13:15] <renesis> wait what
[23:13:26] <renesis> its slap so bad =\
[23:13:35] <renesis> ^gonna
[23:13:58] <furrywolf> http://i62.tinypic.com/m7q0w0.jpg that's the top side of his repair
[23:14:36] <furrywolf> " I covered the speakerwire-tinsel lead tie in with a piece of inner tube and lots of epoxy >_>|"
[23:15:04] <renesis> longas you did it kind of the same both side
[23:15:09] <renesis> did you replace dustcap?
[23:15:16] <renesis> its vented pole
[23:15:25] <furrywolf> that's not my repair.
[23:15:44] <furrywolf> it's a random one I found on the internet, that I find to be of humorously poor quality.
[23:16:13] <renesis> dunno topside looks fine if he gets the dustcap back on
[23:16:41] <renesis> not like everyone has precision pneumatic glue dispensense
[23:16:46] <furrywolf> ... he glued a piece of inner tube to it. lol
[23:16:48] <renesis> i kind of miss those
[23:17:05] <renesis> what? butyl rubber is like, exotic speaker materials
[23:17:12] <renesis> he prob upped the resale considerable
[23:17:59] * furrywolf buys 5ft of .084 tinsel
[23:17:59] <Rab> You don't think he did that quality Memphis Car Audio hardware justice?
[23:18:12] <renesis> http://www.nordson.com/EN-US/DIVISIONS/EFD/PRODUCTS/FLUID-DISPENSERS/AIR-POWERED-DISPENSERS/Pages/performus-series-dispensers.aspx
[23:18:30] <renesis> those were erotic to use
[23:18:42] <furrywolf> you have weird fetishes.
[23:18:49] * furrywolf just likes sex toys and anal
[23:18:53] <renesis> it made rubberized CA and white glue flow like sex!
[23:19:37] <renesis> actually i wonder if newlab got some, bossguy bragging about big changes
[23:19:54] <renesis> prob means i have to move lab gear to a new building
[23:21:20] * furrywolf needs more music
[23:21:43] <furrywolf> I'm looking for the album "Really?" by "The Hundred Days" and "Until The World Is Beautiful" by "The Prids"... can't find either.
[23:22:29] <renesis> furrywolf: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HVW4PsHFAVk&t=39s
[23:23:42] <renesis> haha @ myspace page plug
[23:24:19] <furrywolf> "An error occurred, please try again later."
[23:24:43] <renesis> its for the best
[23:24:58] <furrywolf> and since it claims to be dubstep, I'm not going to bother trying later.
[23:25:18] <renesis> yeah but its novel because it has squeeky toy samples
[23:25:22] <renesis> lots of them
[23:25:28] <furrywolf> lol
[23:26:11] <furrywolf> were you the one talking about your favorite subscription music download services? they have either of those albums?
[23:26:55] <renesis> yes @ really...
[23:27:22] <renesis> yes @ until the world is
[23:27:31] <furrywolf> >160kbps mp3?
[23:27:36] <renesis> its ogg
[23:27:51] <furrywolf> >320kbps ogg?
[23:28:02] <renesis> believe its variable
[23:28:11] <renesis> i can check, its just spotify
[23:28:26] <renesis> i use it because beats killed mog
[23:28:50] <furrywolf> hrmm, if you give me oggs, I'll need to transcode them...
[23:29:26] <renesis> https://support.spotify.com/us/learn-more/faq/#!/article/What-bitrate-does-Spotify-use-for-streaming
[23:29:57] <furrywolf> I don't need streaming. I need downloads. lol
[23:30:17] <renesis> so now im ripping and bundling music for you?
[23:30:20] <furrywolf> yes.
[23:30:35] <renesis> what do i get
[23:30:52] <renesis> you have to admit magnetic contactors are big relays
[23:30:53] <furrywolf> ... how the fuck did they manage to make a FAQ page not work? god I fucking hate "web designers".
[23:30:56] <renesis> and probably other stuff
[23:31:06] <renesis> what browser do you use?
[23:31:09] <furrywolf> firefox
[23:31:29] <renesis> can you just use chrome the government is stealing all your datas ones way or another
[23:31:30] <furrywolf> it looks like rather than simply, you know, WRITING A FUCKING WEB PAGE, they dynamically generate the content with javascript.
[23:31:53] <renesis> i think the future is gonna make you really angry all the time
[23:33:34] <renesis> well fine im gonna listen to your music while you figure out why your distro sucks at building firefox
[23:33:58] <furrywolf> there seems to be some variety of web designer that feels the need to overcomplicate simple things.
[23:34:04] <furrywolf> and makes them not work.
[23:35:01] <furrywolf> the worst I've seen lately was a page where they decided to reimplement scroll bars in javascript. yes, scroll bars. plain, basic scroll bars. with 10kb of javascript. that didn't work.
[23:36:01] <renesis> why dont you just use scroll wheel like everyone else
[23:36:35] <renesis> thge prids got a cool drummer
[23:36:51] <furrywolf> reading spotify's web page, it seems their "offline mode" only works with select devices, requires "syncing", is only available for certain songs, and has limits, like only 30 days? how the hell do they call it a download if it self-destructs after 30 days, and what kind of drm does it take to fuck up like that?
[23:37:15] <renesis> does it do that? because thats kind of cool
[23:37:29] <furrywolf> https://support.spotify.com/us/learn-more/guides/#!/article/Listen-offline/
[23:37:40] <renesis> not like i undownload shit and i dont exactly want some random album i synced for a trip 2 months ago eating my phone space
[23:38:03] <furrywolf> "You can sync a maximum of 3,333 songs per device and stay offline for up to 30 days."
[23:38:30] <renesis> its a streaming service, the ui is kind of their product, theres things can be better, i liked mog radio better but this is pretty good
[23:38:39] <renesis> and i can take streamed music with me, thats pretty cool
[23:38:53] <renesis> like i said, its renting, but at 3 albums a day, its like .10/album
[23:38:58] <furrywolf> I don't intend on using their UI. from what I can find googling, it doesn't WINE at a level acceptable for use.
[23:39:08] <furrywolf> and it's evil.
[23:39:08] <renesis> so use the web thinger
[23:39:28] <renesis> it delivers me music cheap and it works with my sonos stuff
[23:39:37] <renesis> *my, talk like a pirat =\
[23:39:54] <renesis> you prob think sonos is evil for some reason
[23:40:03] <renesis> it has lunix inside!
[23:40:11] <furrywolf> does it actually require facebook, or are they just pushing facebook?
[23:40:16] <furrywolf> I have no idea what a sonos is.
[23:41:22] <renesis> its like you havent used the interb in 5 years, you can just make a non facebook login
[23:42:10] <renesis> sonos are streaming active speakers, they have embedded linux and wifi radios, you control them with smartphones or computers, but theyre standalone network devices
[23:42:19] <furrywolf> "Got a new phone? Or lost one? You may want to remove a device you use for offline listening, since you can only have 3 at a time." ... there is something very fishy if they can limit how many devices you can copy files to.
[23:42:31] <renesis> ?
[23:42:45] <renesis> well because they dont want 1000 people listening on one account
[23:44:01] <renesis> anyway its an on demand streaming service, the fact that you can listen to stuff offline is pretty cool
[23:44:11] <furrywolf> I mean, what technology are they using? they claim it's just ogg files, but ogg files can be copied with no problems.
[23:44:23] <renesis> they just encrypt it
[23:44:54] <renesis> maybe not even the whole file, dunno the details
[23:45:08] <furrywolf> so it's not going to play in my car, which makes it highly useless.
[23:46:37] <furrywolf> if it's not going to give me a standards-compliant file I can directly copy to a usb drive or transcode and then copy, it's useless.
[23:47:09] <furrywolf> from what I can tell reading their page, their offline mode still requires a device that can run their proprietary player?
[23:48:24] <renesis> you dont have a smartass phone or a tablet?
[23:48:42] <renesis> yes everything is attached to their player
[23:48:54] <furrywolf> 1) no. 2) there's no cell coverage.
[23:49:19] <furrywolf> and I drive for a living, with my vehicle being my primary music listening location.
[23:49:39] <renesis> tablets are usually wifi, anyway i dont think spotify is for you
[23:49:50] <renesis> i dont like the prids vocalist
[23:50:22] <renesis> could leave the vocals and guitars, bass is cool
[23:50:28] <furrywolf> I don't know if I like them much or not. only heard one song of theirs. usually when I hear a song that suggests a band might have promise, I download a whole album and give it a listen.
[23:50:44] <furrywolf> if you like bass, I just got an album from Breakdown Valentine... you might like it.
[23:51:14] <renesis> the hundred days hard pans
[23:51:21] <renesis> fuck that, making me think im deaf
[23:51:40] <renesis> this reminds me of blur or something
[23:52:11] <furrywolf> heh, the answer to one of their faqs includes "Spotify is a streaming service offering ad-supported or subscription-based access to over 30 million tracks. There's no way to export that content outside of Spotify"
[23:52:29] <renesis> i just spdif loopback
[23:52:32] <roycroft> i buy cds and rip them
[23:52:38] <roycroft> no problem with standards compliance
[23:52:46] <roycroft> or internet connections
[23:52:55] <norias> fuck it
[23:53:01] <norias> i'm going to start pirating records
[23:53:08] <renesis> id have to get out the usb dvdrw for that
[23:53:34] <norias> i bet i could make a record pressing machine
[23:53:34] <roycroft> i get live stuff off dime and archive
[23:54:01] <renesis> norias: heh
[23:54:11] <renesis> this would probably be the only chan that could
[23:54:53] <furrywolf> Breakdown Valentine is the best random download I've done lately.
[23:54:55] <norias> i've honestly considered it
[23:54:57] <renesis> should make a vinul cutter driven by a 16b 44.1 dac to troll all the vinyl nuts
[23:55:06] <furrywolf> lol
[23:55:10] <norias> well, making vinyl cutting machines
[23:55:20] <norias> because i read that folks that make records
[23:55:26] <norias> can't buy new machines anymore
[23:55:33] <renesis> theyre mostly gone
[23:55:36] <norias> so they are scavaging parts from the machines that exist
[23:55:54] <norias> tempting to call one of those record companies up
[23:55:57] <renesis> the big ones, you can get little boutique ones but i dont think theyre as good
[23:56:00] <norias> and just offer to make them parts
[23:56:19] <renesis> prob too late
[23:56:20] <norias> i.e. give me a broken sample part and i make you parts when you need them
[23:56:28] <renesis> im sure the machines left are pretty looked after
[23:56:30] <norias> but i sell parts to everyone else, too
[23:56:45] <norias> could be
[23:56:46] <roycroft> back as recently as the '70s there were booths you could rent and cut a one-off record
[23:56:54] <roycroft> i bet some of that gear is still floating around
[23:57:04] <renesis> i dont think it was the same material tho
[23:57:13] <roycroft> it was kind of like a photo booth - you go inside, stuff your money in the slot, and start playing
[23:57:14] <renesis> thats like a dub plate machine, they dont last
[23:57:22] <renesis> few dozen uses
[23:57:40] <roycroft> a cnc mill with a rotary table would work
[23:57:50] <renesis> i dont think so
[23:57:51] <norias> eh...
[23:57:56] <norias> yeah, i doubt it
[23:58:00] <renesis> maybe with a lever reduction
[23:58:19] <norias> look in to the shape of the grooves
[23:58:25] <renesis> haha @ testing the THD and IMD of a CNC machines response
[23:58:27] <norias> they are actually pretty interesting
[23:58:29] <renesis> tune that shit!
[23:58:47] <norias> speaking of which
[23:58:53] <norias> anyone ever mess with blueswarf?
[23:59:14] <norias> http://www.amazon.com/BlueSwarf-MetalMax-Milling-Optimization-Kit/dp/B00HRVER68
[23:59:15] <norias> kit
[23:59:17] <furrywolf> wtf? why do they require you to set up port forwarding on your router? are they doing some p2p crap to save bandwidth?
[23:59:21] <norias> http://www.blueswarf.com/
[23:59:23] <norias> website
[23:59:37] <renesis> toolroom app?
[23:59:43] <norias> hmmm
[23:59:50] <norias> define toolroom app
[23:59:57] <norias> so, you buy this kit