#linuxcnc | Logs for 2015-04-20

[00:00:03] <zeeshan> he did a pretty good job
[00:00:05] <Cromaglious_> yep
[00:00:15] <zeeshan> i didnt like how he scraped paint off though
[00:00:19] <zeeshan> i thought that was uncessary
[00:00:26] <zeeshan> he coulda shimmed it to level it
[00:00:34] <Cromaglious_> watching the nightcap 67 P1 right now
[00:05:07] <Cromaglious_> I've done the same thing was him, using grub screw to level something.. I usually only use three with a central retaining bolt and another bold to keep it from spining
[00:06:59] <zeeshan> nice
[00:07:04] <zeeshan> okay it sbed time, 12:45 am :{
[00:12:10] <XXCoder> 10pnhere
[00:17:14] <Cromaglious_> ditto I15 just north of San Diego County
[00:30:39] <Cromaglious_> XXCoder, find something to hack away at those mounts?
[00:30:52] <XXCoder> nah too tired to do so
[00:31:18] <XXCoder> went to 2 hour away dibe to help someone clean house then back
[00:31:22] <XXCoder> next weekend is last one
[00:33:32] <Cromaglious_> spent yesterday and today ALL day in the sun putting up the stage for this season of shakespeareinthevines.org the 10th season
[00:33:53] <Cromaglious_> wife is asleep on the couch right now...
[00:34:16] <Cromaglious_> I was conked out a bit myself..
[00:42:39] <XXCoder> busy day eh
[00:44:18] <Cromaglious_> and we are back out there tomorrow again
[00:44:37] <XXCoder> gonna work 10 hours tomorrow heh
[00:44:43] <Cromaglious_> man I need to get a stick welder
[00:47:56] <Cromaglious_> 10-12-maybe 16
[00:48:32] <Cromaglious_> only did 11 today, and 13 yeaterday
[01:05:43] <XXCoder> insane. http://www.cracked.com/blog/4-fast-furious-stunts-you-wont-believe-were-real/
[01:22:34] * furrywolf doesn't believe people actually click links to articles like that
[01:30:23] <XXCoder> furrywolf: most people arent you
[01:30:29] <XXCoder> surpising, I know.
[01:31:48] <furrywolf> I'd go find some of the register's rants on idiotic titles, but I'm too tired.
[01:32:16] <XXCoder> dumb title but interesting read. I was definitely surpised on some stunts
[01:34:44] <Cromaglious_> I like the chevy pickup chopped down to be the drivable vault
[01:34:56] <XXCoder> yeah. guy had to wear special suit
[01:35:00] <Cromaglious_> or the car flipper car
[01:35:15] <Cromaglious_> cool suit...
[01:35:37] <XXCoder> heh flipper would work as part of police anti-chase car
[01:35:45] <Cromaglious_> 12v pump in a cooler full of cool water
[01:35:58] <XXCoder> set trap, drive it in opposite direction. stop criminal driver dead. maybe even literally
[02:15:09] <Deejay> moin
[02:19:49] <XXCoder> yo
[02:32:42] <XXCoder> Cromaglious_: https://i.chzbgr.com/maxW500/8476497152/hA0596F19/ heh
[04:23:18] <Tom_itx> zeeshan, use scale on your spindle
[04:24:52] <Tom_itx> zeeshan, use M1, M0 for op stop
[04:25:56] <Tom_itx> M1 relies on a softswitch to be on M0 does not
[04:28:51] <Tom_itx> zeeshan, did you decide to use a sacrificial plate for those?
[04:34:24] <Tom_itx> zeeshan, you better adjust the cut on that part with no holes or it will break loose when you make the last perimeter cleanup pass
[04:34:44] <Tom_itx> cut the external side first
[04:35:13] <Tom_itx> also the edge will pull up during the cut
[06:53:26] <jthornton> I also figured out you better put a M5 at the end of each cut...
[07:36:22] <Tom_itx> yeah, just don't forget to turn it back on
[07:39:58] <_methods> hehe
[07:49:24] <JT-Shop> my touchoff sub turns it on
[08:26:35] <JT-Shop> other than the nurbs speed problem it went well and the customer was happy
[10:04:14] <zeeshan> Tom_itx: yes sacraficial plate
[10:07:21] <zeeshan> my goal with the flat plate is
[10:07:24] <zeeshan> before it takes out the piece
[10:07:33] <zeeshan> im gonna pause the spindle
[10:07:33] <ssi> zeee
[10:07:38] <zeeshan> and put a toe clamp on it
[10:07:43] <zeeshan> ssiiiiiiiiii
[10:07:45] <zeeshan> iann
[10:07:49] <ssi> wat is up
[10:08:13] <zeeshan> gonna machine some aluminum parts :p
[10:08:41] <ssi> nice
[10:09:03] <zeeshan> i used to think 1/2" end mill is the most important
[10:09:06] <zeeshan> but it looks like
[10:09:15] <zeeshan> 1/8 and 1/4 are far superior
[10:09:22] <zeeshan> cause certain internal features of parts
[10:09:36] <zeeshan> it sux that they are so fragile :/
[10:10:14] <ssi> yeah
[10:10:23] <ssi> I've broken so many 1/8" endmills :(
[10:10:32] <zeeshan> i broke one in aluminum
[10:10:35] <zeeshan> caus ei wasnt paying attention
[10:10:37] <zeeshan> it was doing a deep slot
[10:10:44] <zeeshan> the chips got packed in the flutes and snap it went
[10:10:47] <zeeshan> :)
[10:11:41] <SpeedEvil> Force monitoring could be handy
[10:11:55] <zeeshan> i have a torque meter
[10:12:03] <zeeshan> just dont have it looped back into linuxcnc
[10:12:07] <SpeedEvil> I mean in an automatic manner
[10:12:15] <SpeedEvil> Both linear and torque
[10:12:20] <zeeshan> youll ned like calibration cruves
[10:12:24] <zeeshan> for different types of cuts though
[10:12:27] <SpeedEvil> though I guess torque alone is useful. Indeed.
[10:12:27] <zeeshan> for it to be any usefu
[10:12:35] <SpeedEvil> Or say 'cal' at the beginning of a job
[10:12:42] <SpeedEvil> at a specific point
[10:13:02] <zeeshan> you mean activate it during a cut you know can be bad
[10:13:07] <zeeshan> (automatically)_
[10:13:11] <zeeshan> and calibrate that portion of the cut
[10:14:45] <SpeedEvil> yes
[10:14:59] <SpeedEvil> Or record it once per job, with sharp tooling
[10:15:22] <zeeshan> there is another cool way to monitor
[10:15:29] <SpeedEvil> Noise?
[10:15:31] <zeeshan> prof was showing an experiment with accel
[10:15:31] <zeeshan> yea
[10:15:39] <zeeshan> chip breaking has a specific frequency
[10:15:44] <zeeshan> that you know from your cutter geometry
[10:15:53] <zeeshan> asap it drifts from that frequency you know something is up
[10:16:06] <zeeshan> accelerometer
[10:19:44] <zeeshan> http://www.maritool.com/Cutting-Tools-End-Mills-Finishers-Square-End-3-Flute-High-Helix-Square-End-3-Flute/c78_79_80_201_202/p1549/1/8-3-Flute-Carbide-End-Mill-SE-38-Deg-Helix-.500-LOC/product_info.html
[10:19:46] <zeeshan> are these made in usa?
[10:22:33] <Jymmm> Your carbide end mills are very nicely priced. Are your end mills made in the USA?
[10:22:33] <Jymmm> Yes. Our carbide end mills are made in the USA. We also make sure that the carbide rod is also made in the USA. We stock carbide end mills in a much higher volume than most tooling suppliers. So we are able to pass these savings down to the customer. Also because of our own internal manufacturing we are able to test our own cutting tools and supply more accurate speed and feed recommendations than most.
[10:26:52] <lair82> Good Morning Gentlemen, Have a question on a 7i49 pwmgen-output, when looking at the output on halscope, even with the gain only set at 1/div the pwmgen-output signal, the value is consistent wether high or low, but it is very "noisy", as in if it goes to say 3vdc, it is bouncing from 3.2-2.8-3.2-2.8 vdc very very quickly. Any thoughts? Those voltages are just for reference, that it is consistent but hovering around a midpoint.
[10:28:35] <cradek> what pin are you looking at in halscope?
[10:29:10] <lair82> And it can be heard while the axis is jogging, and seen in the axis.#.pos-fb readout. The higher P value the louder it gets.
[10:29:12] <cradek> (with halscope questions, sharing a screenshot is always very helpful)
[10:29:42] <pcw_home> what input scale are you using?
[10:29:55] <tiwake> hmm... their ER collets are priced pretty nicely too
[10:30:37] <lair82> I am looking at the 7i80 pwmgen-out output pin for any axis.
[10:30:38] <cradek> zeeshan: everything I've bought from maritool has been great
[10:30:41] <tiwake> not dirt cheap, but on the cheaper end of the spectrum that I've seen
[10:30:41] <pcw_home> resolvers will use a very low input scale ( 0.2 on a 5 TPI ballscrew inch machine)
[10:31:33] <lair82> I have the scale at .2, I used my dial indicator, and verified before even turning the power on.
[10:31:49] <pcw_home> what P term?
[10:31:58] <lair82> 5 revs of the ballscrew was 1.000" on the dial.
[10:32:04] <tiwake> cradek: is that where you buy most of your stuff?
[10:32:10] <tiwake> tooling
[10:32:30] <lair82> even at 5 on the P it gets pretty loud, and bouncy on the display.
[10:32:57] <pcw_home> what is output scale?
[10:33:16] <cradek> tiwake: I don't buy much now, but I bought a full setup for my vmc some years back, probably $2k
[10:33:43] <lair82> I cannot figure out how to get the screen shot utility working on this debian machine. I have been varying the output scale from 1 all the way up to 10.
[10:33:54] <cradek> tiwake: mostly ER collets and chucks, end mill holders, knobs, some end mills
[10:34:12] <pcw_home> 10 is probably close to right
[10:34:58] <pcw_home> all other PID terms set to 0?
[10:35:35] <lair82> yep, I, D, FF0, FF1, FF2, are all 0.
[10:36:34] <pcw_home> how much noise on the position when not moving (and P set t0 0) ?
[10:37:13] <lair82> I checked the mechanicals of the resolver in relation to the ballscrew, and there is no backlash anywhere.
[10:37:40] <lair82> Let me check that.
[10:40:54] <lair82_> Looking at it, there is no noise, but a very slow creep in the negative direction
[10:43:50] <pcw_home> can you disable the drive? (so it does not creep)
[10:44:57] <pcw_home> then you should be able to set the gain up and read the noise (you may need to set ac coupled mode in halscope)
[10:45:46] <skunkworks> halscope is pretty awesome
[10:53:04] <zeeshan> thanks Jymmm and cradek
[10:53:49] <zeeshan> its just fishy they arent made in usa?
[10:53:53] <zeeshan> *marked
[11:00:13] <lair82_> Looking at with thedrive disabled, it looks nice and smooth
[11:15:19] <lair82_> Finally got a screenshot of what it looks like, http://postimg.org/image/fe85a6jlx/
[11:17:01] <lair82_> I have tried both x and y axis of the machine, and they both are running this way.
[11:20:42] <zeeshan> mad oscillation!
[11:28:02] <lair82> That's how we roll !!, I can't figure out for the life of me whats wrong, it is a Siemens 6RB-2030 Drive unit, and the machine was fully functional before I gutted it and put Linuxcnc on it. Absolutely no issues with the drives oscillating, or hammering like it is now.
[11:29:05] <zeeshan> have you got P adjusted?
[11:29:32] <pcw_home> PWM set to mode 2?
[11:30:13] <lair82> Yep I have mode 2 on all three pwm's, and I am at 24 khz on the the setp value.
[11:31:11] <pcw_home> what output scale?
[11:33:56] <lair82> I set it to 10, and it is still there.
[11:36:08] <pcw_home> lookin at the plot I would say the 7I49 is over driven
[11:36:46] <pcw_home> (no oscillation when stopped)
[11:45:20] <lair82> over driven?
[11:46:53] <archivist> zeeshan, found a book I had not catalogued yet on machining copper and the alloys, states tool wear is high due to the copper burnishing the cutter, use a high rake with polished surface
[11:50:43] <pcw_home> too much input signal so you have position jumps
[11:50:53] <zeeshan> archivist: nice
[11:51:49] <zeeshan> unfortunately youd need a special high helix drill
[11:51:52] <zeeshan> to change the rake for drilling
[11:51:52] <zeeshan> =/
[11:51:55] <archivist> published by the copper development association
[11:52:44] <lair82> INI settings need adjusted then?
[11:53:44] <pcw_home> no, 7I49 settings possibly
[11:55:30] <archivist> zeeshan, google the machining of copper and its alloys and the copper development assoc has a pdf download, save me scanning
[11:56:33] <lair82> Would that be firmware level, or something I can manipulate via the HAL file?
[11:58:23] <pcw_home> something you change with a jumper
[12:02:14] <lair82> Would that be changing the reference:output ratio to the 1:1 setting?
[12:26:03] <PCW> "Would that be changing the reference:output ratio to the 1:1 setting? "
[12:26:05] <PCW> Yes I think you had to do that before
[12:33:04] <CaptHindsight> http://www.entrepreneur.com/article/245083 and not even 3d printed :)
[12:33:19] <CaptHindsight> ^^ A Father-Son Team Raises $10 Million for Their Beekeeping Invention on Indiegogo
[12:44:07] <ssi> yea I've been watching that
[12:47:05] <marmite> https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CDDSis4VAAEPhBN.jpg any ideas why my printer does this on pla
[12:48:38] <ssi> temp control problems?
[12:49:16] <archivist> its dead jim
[12:50:04] <ssi> XXCoder: around?
[12:50:53] <Tom_itx> zeeshan even with a toe clamp you may wanna cut the outside part before the inside on that one piece
[12:51:17] <Tom_itx> that way you can clamp it and not have to worry about the cutter passing thru it
[13:01:19] <XXCoder> ssi: yo
[13:04:57] <ssi> XXCoder: I've been 100% soylent three days now, and the two days before that had only dinner out
[13:05:14] <XXCoder> hows it working out
[13:05:17] <ssi> not bad!
[13:05:46] <ssi> it sticks with me between meals just fine, I'm definitely losing weight, and no headaches or anything abnormal
[13:07:42] <XXCoder> yeah it definitely keeps me full just fine
[13:08:31] <XXCoder> no room clearing vents?
[13:08:57] <ssi> nope!
[13:09:32] <ssi> I've been doing different formulas too... I have a week supply of soylent (1.4 I think? whatever the latest is), and a week sampler of schmoylent/schmilk in different flavors, plus I had some of that spaceman shit
[13:09:40] <ssi> I didn't like the spaceman shit, too much whole seed
[13:09:54] <ssi> the schmilk is really good though, only downside being having to stock a bunch of milk
[13:10:46] <XXCoder> yeah and milks bit pricy some places
[13:13:14] <ssi> I'm not so worried about the price
[13:13:19] <ssi> plus the schmilk is cheaper
[13:13:21] <ssi> $50/wk
[13:13:29] <ssi> so even with the milk, it's still cheaper than soylent
[13:13:37] <XXCoder> interestig
[13:13:43] <ssi> half gallon of milk a day, milk is about $3/gal, and I'd run through 3.5 gal/day
[13:15:47] <ssi> er, 3.5 gal/wk
[13:15:47] <ssi> heh
[13:15:55] <XXCoder> lol
[13:16:19] <XXCoder> 3.5 gal a day store employees would give you preffered entrance lol
[13:16:28] <XXCoder> as well as start calling you "milk man"
[13:16:34] <ssi> hahaha
[13:17:10] <XXCoder> 24.5 gal a day lol
[13:17:23] <XXCoder> doh made same mistake
[13:17:28] <XXCoder> s/day/week
[13:17:33] <ssi> heheheh
[13:17:48] <ssi> the schmilk is really tasty tho
[13:18:04] <ssi> it tastes like what you get when you get to the end of a box of cereal and it's all powder in the bottom, and you dump that in milk
[13:18:16] <XXCoder> played with flovoring your soylent?
[13:18:24] <ssi> yeah but only with hot chocolate mix
[13:18:29] <ssi> that's what I'm having right now actually
[13:20:59] <lair82> PCW ,Question I have always had, and now wonder about again, in regards to the 7i49, do the analog outs have to match the resolver input1, example X axis is resolver-0 aout0, or can I have resolver-0 aout1?
[13:23:08] <XXCoder> ssi: evenually want to try this http://discourse.soylent.me/t/soylent-1-4-taste-creations-a-compilation/20819
[13:23:34] <XXCoder> be back though
[13:24:38] <ssi> XXCoder: I ordered one of these too http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00JBUCBHK/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o02_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1
[13:24:45] <ssi> it was delivered about an hour ago
[13:24:46] <ssi> but I'm at work :D
[13:28:08] <PCW> lair82: no thers no connection between the analog outs and the resolver inputs except in your HAL file
[13:42:18] <XXCoder> ssi: nice. some people do like to blend soylent
[13:42:25] <XXCoder> I just use blend bottle
[13:42:40] <XXCoder> http://www.amazon.com/BlenderBottle-Classic-Shaker-Bottle-Clear/dp/B00MVMCUK8/ref=sr_1_1?s=home-garden&ie=UTF8&qid=1429554049&sr=1-1&keywords=blend+bottle
[13:43:16] <ssi> yea I Have blender bottles
[13:43:27] <ssi> I want to be able to mill up my own formulas too though
[13:43:35] <XXCoder> cnc mill ;)
[13:44:07] <XXCoder> soylent has diy site where you input ingerents and it will state whats percent of nuturants in it
[13:44:10] <ssi> yeah I know
[13:45:32] <XXCoder> cool
[13:45:47] <XXCoder> theres diy that uses all fruits and veggies
[13:45:56] <XXCoder> expensive but "all natural" :P
[14:10:41] <zeeshan> ssi thats an expensive blender ;-)
[14:11:54] <Tom_itx> z, got your bracket welded up yet???
[14:12:03] <zeeshan> no
[14:12:08] <zeeshan> i am going to go home in a bit
[14:12:16] <zeeshan> and likely do it tonight :p
[14:12:25] <zeeshan> i need to machine some stainless tensile test samples too
[14:12:32] <zeeshan> i was looking up feeds and speeds
[14:12:34] <Tom_itx> did you see my comment about cutter path above?
[14:12:42] <zeeshan> yea, i think youre overthinking it :P
[14:12:48] <zeeshan> if it breaks a cutter
[14:12:49] <Tom_itx> nope
[14:12:49] <zeeshan> it breaks it
[14:12:50] <zeeshan> :)
[14:12:51] <Tom_itx> never
[14:13:03] <zeeshan> if this prototype works
[14:13:08] <zeeshan> ill just make a fixture for it
[14:13:21] <zeeshan> with protrusions that fit in the slots
[14:13:34] <zeeshan> and if that flat piece lifts up
[14:13:36] <zeeshan> ill just cut it on the bandsaw
[14:13:39] <zeeshan> and skip it
[14:14:03] <Tom_itx> or leave .020" and pop the parts out
[14:14:22] <zeeshan> 20 thou from bottom?
[14:14:28] <zeeshan> i like that idea more
[14:14:28] <zeeshan> lol
[14:14:33] <zeeshan> then i dont need to use a toe clamp
[14:14:42] <Tom_itx> we did that quite a bit on small parts etc
[14:14:58] <Tom_itx> maybe not quite .020" that might be hard to pop out
[14:15:18] <zeeshan> i left 10 thou
[14:15:24] <zeeshan> for one of the othe rparts
[14:15:26] <zeeshan> i forget what
[14:15:28] <zeeshan> and it worked ok
[14:15:34] <Tom_itx> yeah
[14:15:42] <zeeshan> then i took a blade and cut it out
[14:16:11] <Tom_itx> .005 and you can use a debur blade
[14:22:12] <lair82> PCW , ok I tried it anyway, and it worked of course, and, now it is nice and smooth, after I moved it to the 1:1 on the W2 jumper, Thank You, all along I was figuring on something feedback wise, but I thought it was mechanical, not electrical.
[14:22:13] <zeeshan> why is fswizard telling me only 100 sfm using carbide end mill
[14:22:14] <zeeshan> for stainless?
[14:38:10] <andypugh> I am wondering what use this is: http://www.arceurotrade.co.uk/Catalogue/Machines-Accessories/End-Mill-Re-Sharpening-Module
[14:38:28] <andypugh> I don’t think I have ever blunted a carbide end-mill. I just break them.
[14:40:28] <zeeshan> lol
[14:41:03] <zeeshan> andypugh: i have to machine some tensile test samples :/
[14:41:05] <zeeshan> 304 SS
[14:41:10] <zeeshan> 0.040 thick astm medium size
[14:41:32] <zeeshan> im thinking of stacking 12 of them at a time
[14:41:41] <zeeshan> clamping from where the grippers would grip from
[14:41:48] <zeeshan> (toe clamps) and going at it
[14:42:07] <andypugh> You need: http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Rohm-Face-Driver-for-lathe-CNC-turning-milling-machine-engineering-etc-/111649989271?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_3&hash=item19fedba297
[14:42:32] <zeeshan> what is it
[14:43:11] <andypugh> It’s a drive centre for a lathe. It means you can machine all cyclindrical surfaces of a tensile test specimen to absolute concentricity.
[14:43:20] <zeeshan> they arent cylindrical
[14:43:25] <zeeshan> they are out of flat sheet
[14:43:30] <andypugh> In that case you don’t need that :-)
[14:43:32] <zeeshan> hehe
[14:43:50] <XXCoder> zeeshan: careful you got some rep as lathe man ;)
[14:43:54] <andypugh> I want that, but don’t want to afford it.
[14:44:06] <zeeshan> XXCoder: lol
[14:45:10] <zeeshan> im deciding whether its better to go full depth
[14:45:18] <zeeshan> and just take 30 thou cuts
[14:45:21] <zeeshan> or do it in steps
[14:45:28] <zeeshan> dont wanna break this end mill :/
[14:45:36] <zeeshan> well its a 3/8, so pretty hard to break
[14:46:17] <andypugh> You probably want to worry more about the material
[14:46:43] <andypugh> We would normally wire-EDM such things to make sure we didn’t affect the material properties by machining.
[14:46:54] <zeeshan> they are too cheap to do that
[14:46:56] <zeeshan> lol
[14:47:13] <zeeshan> also the substrate isnt that critical
[14:47:19] <zeeshan> from ive been told
[14:47:28] <zeeshan> how i laminate after is important
[14:47:38] <zeeshan> cause the polymer film will fail first
[14:47:47] <zeeshan> not the 304 stainless
[14:47:59] <andypugh> Ah, OK.
[14:48:27] <zeeshan> from the machining course what ive learned is this:
[14:48:43] <zeeshan> if you dont feed correctly, thats is when you get thermal stresses
[14:48:49] <zeeshan> which causes residual stresses on the surface
[14:49:17] <zeeshan> who knows how accurate that relationship is :P
[14:51:02] <XXCoder> isnt there folumbias
[14:52:44] <zeeshan> ??
[15:02:40] <zeeshan> i think fswizard is b roken
[15:02:45] <zeeshan> now its telling me 780sfm
[15:02:45] <zeeshan> lol
[15:02:47] <zeeshan> er
[15:03:00] <zeeshan> nm :p
[15:14:12] <Deejay> namd
[16:11:06] <Deejay> gn8
[16:13:09] <Tom_itx> zeeshan are we having fun yet?
[16:13:50] <Tom_itx> i used to cut quite a few test specimens from large blocks for various tests
[16:13:54] <Tom_itx> round and flat
[16:14:00] <Tom_itx> both grain directions
[16:14:04] <zeeshan> nice
[16:14:10] <zeeshan> no machining yet :P
[16:14:20] <Tom_itx> the flat was usually around 1/4" thick
[16:14:23] <zeeshan> i decided on how to clamp it
[16:14:27] <zeeshan> toe clamps from the side
[16:14:35] <zeeshan> to one side of tensile test slamp
[16:14:47] <zeeshan> then move the clamps over
[16:14:52] <Tom_itx> are you concerned about grain direction?
[16:14:54] <zeeshan> with a 3rd clamp holding it in place temporarily
[16:14:55] <zeeshan> yea
[16:15:04] <Tom_itx> if so, i'd advise marking it with a magic marker etc
[16:15:04] <zeeshan> within a couple degrees is ok
[16:15:37] <zeeshan> the grain is parallel with the edge already
[16:15:39] <zeeshan> when i sheared it
[16:15:48] <zeeshan> i squared the sheet w/ the shear
[16:18:15] <Tom_itx> i think the worst thing we ever machined was tungsten
[16:20:25] <Tom_itx> and you had to be careful not to drop it or it would crack
[16:20:26] * furrywolf has never owned tungsten in machinable-sized pieces
[16:20:56] <Tom_itx> these were probably 6-8" long
[16:21:05] <Tom_itx> maybe 1 1/2" thick
[16:21:14] <Tom_itx> for wing ballast
[16:21:36] <zeeshan> would you machine it with carbide?
[16:21:42] <Tom_itx> they were cut into wedges of various sizes with bolt holes
[16:21:46] <Tom_itx> zeeshan yes
[16:21:53] <zeeshan> what are the chips like?
[16:21:54] <zeeshan> powder?
[16:21:59] <zeeshan> similar to cast iron?
[16:22:13] <Tom_itx> i honestly don't remember now
[16:23:10] <zeeshan> lol its 60-65 hrc
[16:23:11] <zeeshan> wut
[16:23:22] <andypugh> I had to make a set of tensile test specimens from 3 x 2.5” x 18” x 12” pressure-vessel steel and 2 x stainless blocks the same size, electron-beam welded end-to-end. That started with a several days on the band-saw with a paint marker.
[16:23:25] <zeeshan> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fa6f2huW_6A
[16:23:46] <zeeshan> rofl andypugh
[16:23:50] <Tom_itx> most of the ballast we machined was lead but if it had to go in a tight space they were tungsten
[16:25:03] <zeeshan> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3qvVa7mSFIg
[16:25:04] <zeeshan> damn.
[16:25:14] <zeeshan> that thing is raping steal
[16:25:17] <zeeshan> steel
[16:26:19] <zeeshan> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MwqdzVeVoW8
[16:26:21] <zeeshan> interesting tool path
[16:33:01] <andypugh> I have considered trying that as it seems like there should be less bending force on the tool.
[16:38:44] <SpeedEvil> hah - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3qvVa7mSFIg @2:51 is just what I was recently considering doing with a circular sawblade in wood as a thicknesser
[17:27:57] <zeeshan-mill> time for some action
[17:29:42] <Tom_itx> we would plunge mill large areas like that, it's quicker removal with less warpage
[17:29:54] <Tom_itx> we didn't use that big a cutter though
[17:37:09] <zeeshan-mill> ?
[17:37:10] <zeeshan-mill> !!?!
[18:22:57] <robin_sz> So, this is uber kewl
[18:23:45] <robin_sz> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cyN-CRNrb3E
[18:24:03] <robin_sz> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cyN-CRNrb3E
[18:24:08] <robin_sz> coolest thing ever
[18:26:15] <malcom2073> Nice!
[18:33:28] * furrywolf ponders if youtube attempts to deduce person-person relationships based on groups of clicks on video links
[18:38:56] <malcom2073> I'd be amazed if google didn't
[18:39:12] <malcom2073> I should file a patent on that
[18:39:15] <malcom2073> see if google hits
[18:40:16] <furrywolf> lol
[18:41:42] <LeelooMinai> Any opinios/tips/experiences with generating g-code in programmatic way?
[18:43:48] <LeelooMinai> Don't tell me you write it directly by hand all the time:)
[18:48:03] <SpeedEvil> naah. Punched cards
[18:48:25] <malcom2073> Like... CAM software?
[18:48:50] <LeelooMinai> No, programming-something that will generate g-code
[18:49:38] <Rab> LeelooMinai, I've seen several scripts to do parametric g-code generation for specific parts like gears.
[18:50:11] <jdh> there are lots of g-code generators listed in the wiki
[18:52:00] <LeelooMinai> Which wiki? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/G-code <- here?
[18:52:07] <furrywolf> ... no
[18:52:30] <furrywolf> wikipedia is not the only wiki. :P
[18:52:40] <furrywolf> (and it's getting increasingly bad at even being a wiki...)
[18:52:41] <LeelooMinai> Yes, well, that's why I asked...
[18:52:43] <jdh> *the* wiki
[18:53:12] <jdh> http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?Simple_EMC_G-Code_Generators
[18:54:27] <LeelooMinai> I see. No, that's not really what I had in mind. I meant something covering g-code in general, but more sane to write.
[18:55:01] <jdh> there is a.. thing
[18:55:04] <furrywolf> heh, write a language that looks like C but translates to g-code?
[18:55:18] <jdh> yea, there is something like that
[18:55:19] <LeelooMinai> Yes, something like that
[18:55:43] <LeelooMinai> I am more asking if someone here uses any language on top of g-code
[18:56:42] <SpeedEvil> What do you mean?
[18:57:04] <LeelooMinai> Come on... I already wrote what I mean.
[18:57:35] <SpeedEvil> Not in a manner I understood.
[18:58:10] <LeelooMinai> I don't know which part was not understood though:)
[18:58:16] <furrywolf> SpeedEvil: I think she wants something where she can write rapid(x+5,z=2); feed(f=1,x+-1,z=3); etc instead of having to figure out g-code.
[18:58:49] <LeelooMinai> Well, that would be small part of it, but loops, functions, etc. units
[18:58:58] <SpeedEvil> LeelooMinai: openscad?
[18:59:14] <LeelooMinai> Just something sane instead of typing g-code as it's not really meant for humans
[18:59:23] <furrywolf> openscad has two main functions... takeforever() and segfault().
[18:59:33] <Rab> LeelooMinai, can you describe a usage scenario? Input X to accomplish Y task?
[18:59:49] <furrywolf> oh, and generatebrokenmesh()
[18:59:56] <Tom_itx> LeelooMinai, JT-Shop has done some gcode stuff
[19:00:53] <LeelooMinai> Ok, say now - I need to place the probe in 64 places on the table and note the results. Of course I want to write some loops withing 10 lines, instead of trying to type ugly unmaintainable and hard to read/debug gcode.
[19:01:28] <LeelooMinai> So sane programming language -> compile/generate -> g-code
[19:01:41] * furrywolf installs flex and bison on leeloo's box
[19:01:46] <LeelooMinai> Like c vs assembly, where g is the assembly part
[19:02:02] <furrywolf> (or lex and yacc, if you want to be old-school)
[19:02:22] <LeelooMinai> furrywolf: ...
[19:02:50] <furrywolf> those tools will do exactly what you want. :P
[19:02:57] <furrywolf> only some configuration needed. :)
[19:03:30] <LeelooMinai> furrywolf: It's like telling someone who want's to compile C to write the compiler instead of pointing to gcc - fail:)
[19:04:09] * furrywolf has written a C compiler, using lex and yacc...
[19:04:27] <LeelooMinai> furrywolf: And I have done many more impressive things, but that's not the point
[19:04:40] <furrywolf> lol
[19:04:56] <furrywolf> unfortunately for you, I'm not bored enough right now to write it for you.
[19:05:16] <LeelooMinai> Yes, I did not ask anyone to write it though
[19:05:24] <LeelooMinai> Just asked for opinion
[19:05:50] <furrywolf> it actually would be pretty easy... generating g-code from a simple c-like syntax is much easier than a proper compiler with pointers etc.
[19:06:10] <SpeedEvil> yeah - the constraints are a bitch though
[19:06:33] <LeelooMinai> http://www.vagrearg.org/content/gcmc
[19:06:38] <furrywolf> garbage in, garbage out. :)
[19:06:46] <Tom_itx> http://gnipsel.com/files/g-code-generator/
[19:06:48] <Tom_itx> LeelooMinai
[19:07:27] <LeelooMinai> Tom_itx: That seems to be some image to g-code thing
[19:07:40] <LeelooMinai> The one I linked seems to be more what I had in mind
[19:07:42] <Tom_itx> you didn't look very far
[19:08:24] <LeelooMinai> Tom_itx: Well, your link is just some directory with zips
[19:08:40] <Tom_itx> you know what to do with zips?
[19:08:40] <furrywolf> .zip? who the heck uses .zip?
[19:08:49] <Tom_itx> open it and run it
[19:09:02] <Tom_itx> it's a python code thing he's working on
[19:09:04] <LeelooMinai> Tom_itx: No, that's what you do not do with zips:)
[19:09:12] <jdh> gcmc was what I was thinking of.
[19:09:21] * furrywolf probably doesn't have zip installed
[19:10:16] <LeelooMinai> Right, that gcmc seems to be much saner than direct g-code
[19:10:29] <furrywolf> it's been a while, but I seem to remember optimizing register allocation to be one of the things I found most annoying...
[19:11:23] <furrywolf> gcmc looks similar to what I was envisioning.
[19:11:40] <LeelooMinai> I guess other alternative would be just using/writing some library, say for Java, so one has all the power of the original language and tools for it.
[19:12:02] <furrywolf> ... Java sucks.
[19:12:12] <LeelooMinai> No it doesn't:)
[19:12:35] * furrywolf has written enough of it to be sure
[19:13:06] <LeelooMinai> I have probably written more.
[19:13:41] <LeelooMinai> In any case, this would require a bit more initial code investment.
[19:14:24] <furrywolf> quite possible. largest thing I wrote in it was a statistics program with basic spreadsheet, graph, and regression functions. second-largest was a syntax-highlighting editor.
[19:14:27] <LeelooMinai> But I will look at that gcmc. The problem I see with it is that one will have to use normal editor - that is with no support for context/semantics.
[19:15:14] <LeelooMinai> A bit of pita for me - I am used to proper ones.
[19:15:20] <furrywolf> it's close enough to C that many things will probably highlight it fine.
[19:15:53] <LeelooMinai> Right, but that's a big maybe and kind of wishful thinking:)
[19:16:16] <LeelooMinai> It has some weird constructs like vector notation, say [1,-,0]
[19:16:28] <LeelooMinai> Where "-" means "don't move"
[19:16:43] <LeelooMinai> Kind of nice, but it's outside of C
[19:17:16] <furrywolf> that's still very close to valid C, and should highlight.
[19:17:33] <furrywolf> [1,-0,0] would be valid C, for example
[19:17:37] <Rab> You can always write or modify an existing syntax highlighting scheme.
[19:17:40] <furrywolf> pointless, but valid.
[19:17:50] <LeelooMinai> Yes, basic highlighting may work, but not a semantic one.
[19:18:07] <furrywolf> the comma operator is downright useless, imho. :P
[19:19:44] <furrywolf> as far as I know, its only non-useless use is within for loop declarations.
[19:20:00] <furrywolf> and inline blocks or something would have made more sensor. :)
[19:20:03] <furrywolf> sense
[19:28:56] <furrywolf> one of these days I really should finish writing my language.
[19:29:18] <furrywolf> I started designing a language combining many of the best features of different languages, all with a C syntax.
[19:30:54] <furrywolf> C syntax, real arrays, strings, etc, fully OO, a function-call-level security model to allow running of foreign code, persistant variables and a relational database as inherent semantics... :P
[19:31:29] <furrywolf> oh, and inherent event-driven multithreading
[19:31:55] <furrywolf> it was... complicated. :)
[19:32:12] <furrywolf> and impossible to compile, which annoyed me.
[19:32:38] <furrywolf> if you wanted it to fully compile, you could only use a subset of the language. otherwise you could only JITC.
[19:35:43] <furrywolf> it started when someone complained to me that MUF fucking sucked, something I agreed with. I'm not a mucker, but I started thinking how I could write a better engine... and it evolved from there.
[19:44:53] <LeelooMinai> Hmm, is there a way of controlling linuxcnc, or the jog part of it to be exact, remotely with some android tablet app?
[19:45:06] <zeeshan> ^ lol
[19:45:29] <furrywolf> is there a vnc client for android? :P
[19:46:30] <LeelooMinai> That's not what I had in mind
[19:48:22] <LeelooMinai> Hmm, seems there is an article for using logitech joypad as a pendant
[19:48:33] <LeelooMinai> I think I have one of those, somewhere
[19:48:53] <furrywolf> I want to make a little box with three chinese mpg wheels on it, that you can twiddle just like a mini machine.
[19:49:29] <zeeshan> i accidently did a 1" deep cut
[19:49:35] <zeeshan> with a 3/8" cutter, full width of cut
[19:49:36] <zeeshan> whoops
[19:49:49] <zeeshan> it ate the aluminum
[19:49:51] <LeelooMinai> zeeshan: And don't lol - using small tablet as a readout/jog panel makes perfect sense
[19:50:10] <zeeshan> LeelooMinai: wireless doesn't seem safe
[19:50:33] <LeelooMinai> Use usb cable if you think wireless is somehow not-safe
[19:50:39] <zeeshan> then that is fine
[19:51:06] <zeeshan> http://i.imgur.com/ZtPIMII.png
[19:51:08] <zeeshan> i love this tool path
[19:51:44] <LeelooMinai> You people are not good at thinking out of the box:)
[19:51:59] * LeelooMinai goes to search for the joypad
[19:52:04] <zeeshan> LeelooMinai: gimme a break, thats all we did in undergrad
[19:52:07] <zeeshan> think out of the box
[19:52:18] <zeeshan> btw i got my china packets today
[19:52:19] <zeeshan> hooray
[19:52:36] <LeelooMinai> I did not know the ping to China is that bad
[19:52:36] <furrywolf> don't you have a thesis to be working on? :P
[19:52:50] <furrywolf> lol
[19:53:07] <zeeshan> furrywolf: i cant work on it anymore because i cant think outside of the box
[19:53:11] <zeeshan> :P
[19:53:48] <zeeshan> wow the toxic smell
[19:53:50] <zeeshan> of these leds
[19:53:50] <zeeshan> wow
[19:58:29] <furrywolf> meh. I have about a million projects I'd do if I had more time, money, energy, and skill. the last one can be fixed with more of the first three, but the first three are hard.
[20:00:12] <zeeshan-mill> Tom_itx, i cant clamp the 9x6.625x.125 plate in the vise
[20:00:17] <zeeshan-mill> it bends upwards :p
[20:00:38] <zeeshan-mill> i was hoping to get away without using a base plate
[20:00:44] <zeeshan-mill> doesnt look like that will work :D
[20:03:23] <LeelooMinai> What's up with this: "hal_joystick has been depreciated from EMC 2.4"? Any reasons?
[20:04:54] <furrywolf> what are you doing to the plate? can you position holddowns instead of using the vise?
[20:05:22] <furrywolf> LeelooMinai: does the line immediately after that line answer it?
[20:08:09] <LeelooMinai> http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?HereIsHowToCheck
[20:08:16] <LeelooMinai> So the answer is no
[20:09:05] <furrywolf> hal_joystick has been depreciated from EMC 2.4
[20:09:05] <furrywolf> Note that halui now has analog jog inputs so there is no need to use the sim-encoder components A much simpler way to use a joypad is described here: http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?Simple_Remote_Pendant
[20:09:20] <humble_sea_bass> deprecated
[20:10:03] <furrywolf> seems to me like the next line exactly answers your question. it's deprecated because there's improved functionality built into another component.
[20:10:27] <LeelooMinai> furrywolf: There's nothing like that on that page for me
[20:11:04] <furrywolf> you dodn't give a page, so I googled it, and http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?Using_A_Joypad_To_Jog_And_Control_Spindle_Speeds is the first result, which I pasted from. it links to http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?Simple_Remote_Pendant
[20:13:20] * furrywolf shakes head at the state of internet lyrics availability.
[20:13:38] <furrywolf> THREE SONGS IN A ROW that I've looked for lyrics of, I didn't find.
[20:14:28] <LeelooMinai> Hmm, "Note that halui now has analog jog inputs so there is no need to use the sim-encoder components"... What do they mean "no need":) All jogs are analog?
[20:18:11] <Tom_itx> technically digital is too
[20:19:09] * Tom_itx goes for system meltdown
[20:19:23] * LeelooMinai looks weirdly at Tom_itx
[20:22:08] <furrywolf> "My fingers on my mind, I think about you all the time, but when you're here with me, it won't my fingers inside me"... nope. "B is for border.. C is for cattle... D is for daughter..."... nope. "and to eat you must cooperate to operate you live delegate and subjugate by services and needs"... nope. three songs in a row, google can't find lyrics.
[20:25:34] <furrywolf> either there's a distinct lack of lyrics searchable with google, or my music collection is unusual. :P
[20:35:59] <furrywolf> and, sadly, 2 of the 3 bands there are gone with the main people dead. /me would have loved to see the pandoras or wall of voodoo live
[20:37:01] <furrywolf> iggy pop is still around, but I'm not enough of a fan to see him. heh.
[20:48:27] <renesis> find new music, dont be a dinosaur
[20:48:44] <furrywolf> one of those is only a few years old.
[20:48:48] <Tom_itx> lots of the old stuff can't be replaced
[20:48:59] <renesis> if its gone its not new anymore =(
[20:49:16] <renesis> tom_itx: exactly so dont try and replace find other neat things
[20:49:23] <furrywolf> I haven't found much current music I like... how does one find small garage bands?
[20:49:36] <renesis> local shows in college towns
[20:49:40] <Tom_itx> door to door?
[20:49:57] <renesis> prob stuff in arcata
[20:50:07] <renesis> also soundcloud
[20:50:24] <furrywolf> the currently popular music seems to be a stupidly high percentage of utter shit. (hint: anyone who has ever had their picture on the cover of a tabloid has never been involved in any music worth listening to.)
[20:50:37] <LeelooMinai> Look for houses with small garages?
[20:50:41] <furrywolf> sure, there's lots of bands in arcata, if you want to listen to god fucking awful stoner music.
[20:51:15] <renesis> i think youre generalizing
[20:51:25] <renesis> most stoners dont play stonercore
[20:51:35] <LeelooMinai> They don't play at all:)
[20:51:52] <furrywolf> I've found a few good bands watching the dna lounge's webcast, but they switched providers to one that only runs windows-only streams.
[20:51:53] <renesis> pfft that definitely can be contradicted
[20:52:10] <furrywolf> renesis: most music here is some variation on stoner, reggae, or hiphop.
[20:52:30] <furrywolf> there's one rockabilly band, that always plays the same few songs that sound the same.
[20:52:38] <renesis> anyway, youre more likely to be able to find home brew rock and punk now than ever before
[20:52:45] <LeelooMinai> There's this internet thing - one can download albums of pretty unknown but good bands nowadays
[20:52:55] <renesis> ikr
[20:53:36] <renesis> theres a record attempt here for longest running show, dunno if its still going
[20:53:51] <renesis> they were trying to do a month, so definitely a lot of garage grade acts
[20:54:43] <renesis> also im laughing at your opinion of drug users, and then saying youre into iggy pop's work
[20:55:11] <furrywolf> as to the three songs I typed the lyrics from, youtube has them at https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hOjW_rhVFLU https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3uQQCXC6msw https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B2oEDkwdGJY all on youtube, but none have lyrics online. heh.
[20:55:29] <furrywolf> actually, no, I said I WASN'T into iggy pop. the other two I said I'd like to have seen.
[20:56:08] <renesis> 'not enough of a fan' kind of implies youre a bit of a fan
[20:56:11] <renesis> but nm
[20:56:23] <furrywolf> LeelooMinai: I've had a _very_ hard time downloading many of the albums I've wanted.
[20:56:36] <furrywolf> I used to have a list of several hundred bands I wanted albums from, but couldn't find.
[20:59:01] <renesis> wonder how many are on spotify
[21:01:00] * furrywolf wishes the dna lounge had a lot more real bands and a lot fewer cover bands and guys with laptops
[21:01:46] <renesis> real bands like 3 to 5 guys doing roughly the same exact thing as several million people before them?
[21:02:19] <furrywolf> but differently. unless they're a cover band.
[21:03:19] <renesis> but also not on drugs
[21:03:39] <renesis> youre kind of a hard customer
[21:05:48] <furrywolf> also, many of the best bands are 3-5 girls, not guys.
[21:07:17] <zeeshan> furrywolf: im using hold downs now
[21:14:08] <furrywolf> https://youtu.be/cRZM0DDGgYo hrmm, they might have potential. (filmed at dna lounge)
[21:16:07] <furrywolf> we don't have any music venues here, just small bars (<50 people maximum), so there's no out-of-area talent...
[21:18:50] <furrywolf> she sounds a little like a young siouxsie, or the girl from the yeah yeah yeahs.
[21:19:25] <furrywolf> where's kickass.to these days? still domain hopping it looks like.
[21:20:07] * furrywolf adds it to the new list of hard-to-download bands
[21:21:18] <renesis> thats girl with the beard seems pretty talented
[21:22:29] <renesis> she does sound a little like the girl from yeah yeah yeahs
[21:22:39] <renesis> little less dramatic, moany
[21:23:23] <renesis> yeah yeah yeahs were badass live,for art star she just sticks the mic in her mouth, puts her arms back, looks up and screams like how she does
[21:24:27] <furrywolf> http://despotify.sourceforge.net/ hrmm, maybe spotify is finally usable without drm...
[21:24:56] <furrywolf> I like their legal section: Legal
[21:24:56] <furrywolf> "The Streisand effect is a phenomenon on the Internet where an attempt to censor or remove a piece of information backfires, causing the information to be widely publicized."
[21:25:11] <renesis> you really think spotify is overpriced?
[21:25:17] <renesis> its like $10 i think
[21:25:53] <furrywolf> I think only working with their propritary client is unacceptable even if free.
[21:26:32] <renesis> why
[21:26:41] <renesis> youre renting
[21:26:57] <renesis> at a mind blowingly cheap rate
[21:27:23] <renesis> monthly cost is less than one retail CD, and you can easily listen to 100 albums in a month
[21:27:38] <renesis> so like, $10 to rent $1500 worth of music
[21:27:59] <furrywolf> first, there's the moral and ethical issues. second, there's the technical issues, like it apparantly only sorta works in WINE, and I don't have the bandwidth to stream, instead downloading and playing later... usually in my car.
[21:28:14] <renesis> you dont have to stream
[21:28:21] <renesis> and i believe theres a web interface
[21:28:39] <renesis> also youre talented enough to rip the stream easily
[21:29:06] <renesis> and you dont have a smartphone?
[21:29:20] * furrywolf finds it very unlikely that there's a drm-free web interface
[21:29:24] <renesis> i download spotify tracks for local offline play before every trip
[21:29:29] <furrywolf> no smartphone, and no coverage anyway.
[21:29:43] <renesis> my point is why do you feel the need to own it if the rate is so low to listen to it
[21:30:11] <furrywolf> ?
[21:30:14] <renesis> at 3 albums a day its literally a penny an album to listen
[21:30:27] <renesis> drm is about ownership
[21:30:45] <renesis> they allow offline playback, and their rental rate is mind blowingly low
[21:31:07] <renesis> if you have moral issues with it, paypal the artists money directly
[21:31:33] <furrywolf> again, even ignoring the moral issues, there's the technical ones. from what I've read, while the client does run in wine, it does not work well.
[21:31:57] <furrywolf> and they only have a small percentage of the albums I want.
[21:32:10] <renesis> youve checked?
[21:34:48] <furrywolf> hrmm, the despotify page claims spotify uses crap quality.
[21:35:02] <renesis> its mp3
[21:35:15] <renesis> im not sure what high quality mode is
[21:35:49] <renesis> mog was 320kbps but i think they killed it when they changed it to beats music and ignored fixing the web interface for over 6 months
[21:36:05] <furrywolf> they say it's vorbis, not mp3, and at low bitrate.
[21:36:10] <renesis> most the acoustic engineers i worked with were fine using 320kbps for referencing
[21:36:58] <renesis> honestly i listen to it through etymotic in ear monitors, which are well regarded for reference, amd have been listening to remastered albums, and it sounds great
[21:37:15] <furrywolf> except they say it's not 320.
[21:37:23] <renesis> and again, like $.01 per album, with really impressive selection
[21:37:29] <renesis> i didnt say it was
[21:37:33] <renesis> i said mog was
[21:37:49] <renesis> and that i dont think beats music is (they made it out of mog)
[21:38:33] <renesis> do you listen on reference monitors or headphones? prob doesnt matter much in a car
[21:38:39] <renesis> the car is going to fuck the music up more
[21:38:41] * furrywolf isn't familiar with mog, and googles
[21:38:48] <renesis> its dead
[21:38:54] <furrywolf> JBL 4311s when I want to hear detail
[21:39:18] <furrywolf> (reference monitors, '70s vintage)
[21:39:39] <renesis> those look a bit ew
[21:39:50] <furrywolf> ?
[21:40:21] <furrywolf> are you badmouthing one of the highest-rated monitors of all time? :)
[21:40:24] <renesis> old, 3 way
[21:40:46] <renesis> yeah people like tannoys too and they looked pretty meh when i measured them
[21:41:19] <renesis> ns10 have some amazing qualities, i wouldnt mind owning a pair, but theyre not flat
[21:42:02] <renesis> it has an alnico woofer motor?
[21:42:17] <furrywolf> they were designed to be top-of-the-line... as an example, here's what the 4" mids look like: http://fw.bushytails.net/jblmids.jpg yes, that's a 4" mid. yes, it's an alnico magnet larger than the average ricer truck-rattling sub.
[21:42:54] <renesis> because theyre not powerful magnets
[21:43:13] <renesis> i dont think theyre used outside of guitar speakers anymore
[21:43:36] <furrywolf> not powerful compared to a $1000 chunk of rare-earths, perhaps. quite powerful compared to the ceramic magnets in virtually everything else.
[21:45:22] <furrywolf> I might be getting a pair of the 4312s with titanium dome tweeters... need to go bug the guy. he was supposed to call back.
[21:47:01] <furrywolf> every part of them is designed to be quality... even pointless stamped wax seals on the screws, just so you can take your drivers out and be sure they haven't been tampered with. lol
[21:47:30] <renesis> not a big fan of titanium tweeters
[21:48:42] <furrywolf> the voice coils are all edge-wound flat copper. no round magnet wire.
[21:48:55] <furrywolf> I've never heard a titanium tweeter, so I don't know if I like them or not.
[21:49:27] <renesis> it depends a lot on the design. they're metal, they'll ring
[21:49:49] <furrywolf> I have a pair of AMT1s in storage... I should refoam them one of these days, just so I can listen to the AMT tweeters again.
[21:51:32] <furrywolf> http://medias.audiofanzine.com/images/normal/ess-amt-1-112309.jpg those. (mine are in much, much worse shape)
[21:51:55] <furrywolf> the thing on top is the tweeter. :)
[21:53:05] <furrywolf> my living room stereo right now is more of the loud party variety... Sansui! 14" 6-way and 16" 5-way.
[21:53:14] <renesis> looks goofy, would not trust until measured
[21:53:46] <furrywolf> JBL: "Let's make each driver perfect." Sansui: "I think we have room to cram another driver in this corner here..."
[21:54:11] <renesis> so i cant find a good explanation, but basically alnico are sold as having musical compression
[21:55:07] <furrywolf> that's crap for guitar amps where people intentionally overdrive them
[21:55:09] <renesis> it could just be old gap designs which rely solely on the umf of the magnet, but may be related to how the magnet is oriented
[21:55:20] <furrywolf> for a reference monitor, they're used because of the very strong field you can get from them
[21:55:55] <renesis> yeah but if the field isnt consistent srength doesnt matter
[21:56:09] <renesis> you just get a normal, elliptical Bl and Cms plot on a Klippel DA
[21:56:59] <renesis> if you dont do stuff to smooth out the field, the strength decreases with excursion which is distortion
[21:58:12] <renesis> with ferrites you can do a bunch of shit with the pole and top plate(s) so you take the energy and focus and normalize it, and you get more ideal, square Cms and Bl vs excursion curves
[21:58:51] <furrywolf> I've never listened to the AMTs on a properly working speaker... but I've heard they sound quite nice when you do.
[21:59:09] <renesis> shrug, nice doesnt mean accurate
[21:59:38] <renesis> in most tests, accurate is not considered nice =(
[21:59:44] <furrywolf> the worst-sounding speakers I own are my klipschs... utter trash. I don't know why people like them.
[21:59:53] <renesis> status
[22:00:03] <renesis> shrug, some of their products are okay
[22:00:10] <furrywolf> they consist of two plastic woofers and a horn. they SOUND LIKE two plastic woofers and a horn. speakers should not sound like things.
[22:00:23] <renesis> most home stuff is voiced, if youre into reference sound a lot of it will sound goofy
[22:00:49] <renesis> furry thats basically how i feel about most metal tweeters
[22:01:13] <renesis> soft tweeters dont sound like anything, dont ring
[22:01:27] <renesis> maybe dont reproduce out to light, but who cares
[22:01:40] <furrywolf> the jbls are simply the clearest speakers I've ever heard... everything else is muddy after listening to them. that 10lb midrange is definitely part of this.
[22:01:42] <renesis> last octave is trash anyway
[22:02:07] <renesis> you need to listen to some Genelecs or ADAMs
[22:02:38] <renesis> some end of the line EQ'd active speakers with DSP preamps
[22:03:04] <furrywolf> my sansuis sound like crap compared to the jbls, but they have the advantage of being able to make things bounce around on tables, which would be unhealthy to try with the jbls. there's something to be said about having a half dozen square feet of cone area.
[22:03:35] <furrywolf> well, I won't say that. they sansuis don't sound like crap. they're perfectly good speakers. but they're not reference monitors, and the horns show.
[22:04:19] <renesis> if you send me your speakers ill measure them
[22:04:43] <furrywolf> right now my living room has about 10ft2 of cone. :)
[22:04:46] <renesis> thats prob not bad work
[22:05:29] <renesis> youd have to take a knife to them and show me the VC and split motor components to really impress me
[22:05:39] <furrywolf> I got a pair of '70s pioneer speakers last summer... they actually sound surprisingly nice. they have fancy wood grilles like the sansuis, but the fit and finish is better... and they don't have the annoying horn-ness of the sansuis.
[22:05:54] <renesis> my first job was working on 21" subwoofers, eventually the 15" woofers started looking tiny
[22:06:32] <renesis> a lot of stuff with trucks in the motor geometry, confirmed as functional on industry standard transducer test equiment
[22:07:01] <renesis> big is neat, but i want to see squares on a Bl or Cms versus X plot
[22:07:07] <furrywolf> heh, my living room has three pairs in it right now... the 16" 5-way sansuis, the 14" 6-way sansuis, and the 12" 3-way pioneers. that's 28 drivers...
[22:07:29] <renesis> i hope you dont use them all at once
[22:07:37] <furrywolf> of course I do. :P
[22:08:03] <furrywolf> it creates some interesting effects, and there's a dead spot by my front door where the woofers on opposite sides of the room cancel out
[22:08:16] <renesis> bragging about decades old passives in your signal path and crazy amounts of comb filters is a bit odd
[22:08:55] <furrywolf> my storage unit/shop has the klipshs and a pair of yamahas, plus a subwoofer unit that I haven't hooked up yet but keep meaning to
[22:08:56] <renesis> im actually disasspointed because you are much more technical than that
[22:09:03] <furrywolf> the jbls are currently on loan to someone
[22:09:17] <renesis> i fully expect you to rip the passive covers out and go to full active with DSP frontends in the near future
[22:09:21] <furrywolf> the AMT1s are awaiting refoaming, and the dyanacos aren't worth actually hooking up.
[22:09:39] <furrywolf> the best part is I'm running the living room speakers off a car amp. :P
[22:09:52] <renesis> and youre bitching about audio file quality?
[22:10:01] <renesis> no drugs in your rock n roll music
[22:10:25] <renesis> high quality digital audio for two very acoustically fucked spaces
[22:10:27] <furrywolf> none of my good amps are currently working. :(
[22:10:28] <renesis> =(
[22:10:33] <renesis> oh that sucks
[22:10:43] <renesis> my subwoofer has XLR that are going intermittent
[22:10:52] <renesis> i actually worked on a derivative product
[22:11:10] <renesis> fuckin larry, cheapin out on the XLR jacks, didnt get the neutrik for the entry level products
[22:11:44] <renesis> i dont want to take it apart because im pretty sure the connectors are mounted to the preamp board with a ton of random glue to air seal them
[22:12:01] <furrywolf> the pioneer sx-1010 needs an output set, the kenwood l07m pair, one blows the main fuse (likely outputs), the other the control fuse. the marantz kept taking longer to turn on and eventaully stopped, one pioneer sx-828 has a dc offset issue (tracked it down to something in the bias regulator, but didn't have time to finish), the other won't turn on the protection relay even though the main output looks good, the sansui quad distorts on two channels,..
[22:12:07] <renesis> since random china glue, may fuck the preamp if i try and rework (tho sometimes they use this rubber stuff almost like RTV)
[22:12:18] <renesis> its fine unless I turn it up
[22:12:43] <renesis> then the left mains monitor starts fucking up because its a crossed over XLR out
[22:12:53] <renesis> paper shim worked for two days
[22:13:23] <furrywolf> I got a sansui amp at a yard sale two weeks ago, an au-717. haven't tested it yet.
[22:13:37] <furrywolf> my stack of amps needing fixing is way too large, but they all require time and money.
[22:13:37] <renesis> i think i had one of those stuck in thermal protection
[22:13:52] <renesis> yeah i threw all that shit out
[22:14:24] <renesis> for the time and money its easier to just make a 50W to 100W chipamp and bridge/parallel to get power needed
[22:14:36] <renesis> better performance, hella simple
[22:14:57] <furrywolf> none of the amps I have will be thrown out. even broken, their ebay value is non-trivial.
[22:15:08] <renesis> everyone in audio mostly using STmicro amps
[22:15:13] <renesis> oh, thats neat
[22:15:20] <renesis> i dont like selling stuff on ebay
[22:16:11] <furrywolf> http://www.ebay.com/itm/Rockford-Fosgate-Punch-4080DSM-/261814480517 that's currently the main amp in my living room. lol
[22:16:15] <renesis> anyway, i think you should sell all the things and buy some good speakers that arent 100 years old
[22:17:11] <furrywolf> it's a car amp, but it has very good specs, and quite a bit of non-marketing power.
[22:17:26] <renesis> they didnt market amps like that
[22:17:43] <renesis> home audio people swallow that shit, but the car audio people have DMM and know better
[22:17:58] <renesis> in many cases, they were underrated so do better in db drag competitions
[22:18:04] <renesis> *to do better
[22:18:05] <furrywolf> eh? most car audio stuff has utter bullshit ratings.
[22:18:10] <renesis> goofy section of the industry
[22:18:27] <renesis> yeah maybe like, Pyle shit
[22:18:27] <furrywolf> 200W RMS!!!! Input: 12V, 10A fuse.
[22:18:46] <renesis> caps furry
[22:19:08] <renesis> anyway, many car audio amps will exceed their ratings by a bit
[22:19:17] <renesis> more than is typical headroom for credible products
[22:20:49] <furrywolf> this amp has a 60A input fuse, and pulls all of it. 160W RMS/channel, both channels driven, at 12.6V battery voltage, 0.1% THD. 220W at 14.4V. Most manufacturers put the 14.4V rating on the package, pretending there's no voltage drop in the wiring/etc, while this one puts the real-world number on the box...
[22:21:42] <renesis> its all just marketing until you put it on an AP
[22:21:45] <furrywolf> no, most car audio amp ratings these days are _utter bullshit_. in the same realm as home theater power ratings.
[22:22:08] <renesis> ha, company i did home audio for didnt have power rated
[22:22:22] <renesis> spec was like, AMPLIFIER: 9 OF THEM
[22:22:33] <furrywolf> lol
[22:22:40] <renesis> its the way it should be done
[22:23:05] <furrywolf> I really should fix the kenwood L-07ms. big monoblocks. dc-600khz. yes, 600khz. because your home stereo needs to be able to double as an AM broadcasting station.
[22:23:35] <renesis> how did it die
[22:24:07] <furrywolf> dunno. one pops the line fuse (dead-short variety of pop), the other blows the control board fuse (gentle overload variety of blows).
[22:24:22] <furrywolf> I got them in this condition.
[22:24:39] <furrywolf> they have six unobtainium output trannies
[22:24:47] <renesis> i would sell them because dc to light is not worth the problems
[22:25:06] <furrywolf> I'm going to guess the one that pops the line fuse needs a set of them, while the one that blows the control fuse has a less-expensive problem.
[22:25:08] <renesis> wtf output transformers
[22:25:48] <renesis> youre too educated for this trash
[22:25:55] <furrywolf> http://www.ebay.com/itm/VINTAGE-STEREO-PAIR-KENWOOD-L-07M-MONO-BLOCK-AMPLIFIERS-AMPS-plug-and-play-/121566160349 little compact monoblocks
[22:26:02] <renesis> sell all the things, build/buy some chipamps, get a mini-dsp
[22:26:09] <renesis> make everything better
[22:26:41] <renesis> to-3
[22:27:27] <renesis> shit might as well be painted polkadots and be wearing bellbottoms
[22:27:55] <furrywolf> I'm not quite sure why kenwood decided they needed to go to 600khz. am broadcast radio starts at 535khz I think...
[22:28:16] <renesis> to sell to people who need to keep up with the joneses
[22:29:35] <furrywolf> http://www.ebay.com/itm/Pioneer-SX-1010-Stereo-Receiver-Professionally-Restored-Awesome-New-LEDs-/171721489255 my one of those needs an output pair
[22:31:25] <renesis> sell all the things, buy active speaker bits or modern ref monitors
[22:31:27] <renesis> !
[22:31:51] <renesis> youll be happier
[22:32:08] <furrywolf> http://www.ebay.com/itm/PIONEER-SX-828-RECEIVER-FM-AM-WORK-WELL-50-WATT-PER-/261791414204 I have two of those, probably the easiest fixes of the lot. one (used to be my bedroom stereo) has a slight (50mv) dc offset, looks to be a problem in the bias regulator circuit (I couldn't find the negative 1.whatever reference). the other won't turn on the protection relay even though the output from the amp board is flawless.
[22:32:42] <furrywolf> I can't remember the models of my other ones right now. they're all in a stack in storage. heh.
[22:33:17] <renesis> sell!
[22:33:41] <furrywolf> a nice marantz that kept taking longer and longer to turn on and finally stopped (something has drifted out of spec), and a sansui quad that distorts on two channels.
[22:34:03] <furrywolf> heh, they sell for a lot more working! note the $900 price tag on the sx-1010...
[22:34:37] <renesis> yeah is anyone buying?
[22:34:53] <renesis> sell to people who think they will fix and sell for way more!
[22:35:00] <renesis> sell! sell! sell!
[22:35:03] <renesis> k no more advice
[22:35:17] <furrywolf> every listing I pasted sold.
[22:35:34] <furrywolf> I just picked up a http://www.ebay.com/itm/SANSUI-AU-717-INTEGRATED-85-WATT-AMPLIFIER-SERVICED-EXCELLENT-ORIGINAL-MANUAL-/121544281313 , haven't tested it yet. it's still sitting in the back of my car.
[22:35:52] <renesis> i had that
[22:36:03] <renesis> i didnt want to completely disassembly to debug right
[22:36:22] <renesis> japanese were pretty good at the whole packaging thing
[22:36:37] <furrywolf> heh, yep. the pioneers I have are packed solid.
[22:36:47] <renesis> heh
[22:36:55] <renesis> and then there was my 90s technics amp
[22:37:18] <renesis> 1/3 PSU, 1/3 heatsink, and 1/3 chipamp and preamp
[22:37:34] <renesis> everything flat and accessible from above with cover removed
[22:37:40] <renesis> because panasonic <3s us
[22:38:10] * furrywolf won't touch anything with a stk chip
[22:38:22] <furrywolf> and last I checked, those technics amps had stk chips.
[22:38:35] <renesis> and mine never blew up
[22:38:42] <renesis> other hacker says in the 70s, they loved them
[22:38:53] <renesis> 15 minute repair, quick $100
[22:39:18] <renesis> also they look neat when they blow up
[22:39:27] <renesis> all hollow inside with big giant parts
[22:40:20] <furrywolf> everything with a stk chip blows up eventually, they sound like crap from day one, the chips are stupidly expensive, they take out the rest of the amp board when they go (ALWAYS a dead short from the rails to the low-level inputs), and since they're a low-quality budget design, the rest of the amp is always crap too.
[22:40:44] <renesis> mine sounded fine
[22:41:07] <renesis> also considering what conditions you listen in, im not sure you get to have an opinion on what sounds good, heh
[22:41:13] <furrywolf> I have a fisher with a blown stk that you can have if you pay shipping. :P
[22:41:24] <furrywolf> or maybe I tossed it in the trash. don't remember.
[22:41:24] <renesis> why would i want that
[22:41:51] * renesis points at chipamp PCBs and tube of 50W ST TDA chips
[22:41:57] <furrywolf> I've fixed a number of amps with stk chips, and have always been disappointed.
[22:42:19] <furrywolf> they're always overrated instead of underrated like quality amps, the sound is never great, and the amp overall is always poor quality.
[22:43:10] <renesis> do you have measurements to back this up?
[22:43:35] <renesis> also, that chip is 40 years old
[22:43:39] <renesis> its literally older than me
[22:43:40] <furrywolf> if you're going to build a quality amp, you build a quality discrete output stage to go with it... not toss a random chip in and a copy of the test circuit straight from the datasheet.
[22:43:46] <LeelooMinai> Can Linuxcnc be remotelly controlled by some network protocol?
[22:43:54] <renesis> furrywolf: yeah in 1980
[22:44:15] <renesis> for <= 100W, discrete is silly, just problems
[22:44:18] <furrywolf> of course, the advantage of this is you don't need schematics for each amp, as they're all the same. :P
[22:50:21] <renesis> heh
[22:50:38] <renesis> neighbor just gave me some mackie SRM speakers to troubleshoot
[22:50:52] <renesis> prob just thermal protection from the trap
[22:51:33] <renesis> nice, pulled the earth pin
[22:53:01] <furrywolf> always a good sign. non.
[22:53:02] <furrywolf> not.
[22:53:57] <renesis> theyre plastic!
[22:59:06] <furrywolf> that means they're not worth fixing.
[23:02:57] <renesis> except QSC K-series are plastic and they sound better and have more power than all your speakers!
[23:03:20] <renesis> this thing got problems bbl
[23:08:27] <furrywolf> seriously, -6db is 66hz? more proof plastic speakers are trash.
[23:10:51] <furrywolf> my jbls are -3db at 45hz
[23:10:53] <renesis> lots of wood speakers do worse?
[23:11:13] <renesis> K12 are like 50Hz
[23:11:17] <renesis> and they has a sub!
[23:11:57] <furrywolf> also, using -6db is just plain misleading marketing, when everyone else uses -3db.
[23:12:25] <renesis> as long as you spec it
[23:12:27] <furrywolf> k12 is 52hz -6db according to their specs. -3db will be higher.
[23:12:37] <renesis> i kind of like -6db and -10db numbers
[23:12:54] <renesis> in any case, neither is a replacement for freq response plots
[23:13:00] <furrywolf> also, lol @ 2000W drawing 2A at 110V.
[23:13:40] <renesis> those are the amp modules
[23:13:56] <renesis> its marketing, but if you pull out the amps and test them, theyre 1000W amps
[23:14:19] <furrywolf> LOL! the k-sub is 48hz -6db. that's substantially worse than the -3db 45hz of my jbls. and jbls aren't even meant to be subs - they're studio monitors! with better bass response than an overpriced sub.
[23:14:36] <renesis> they have good DSP, theyre limiting (dynamic bass EQ, sliding filters) works much more transparently than the competition
[23:14:46] <renesis> side by side testing, they make other speakers look silly
[23:15:11] <renesis> SRM were cool, being the first, original made by RCF in italy or some shit, now made in china
[23:15:30] <renesis> furrywolf: your jbls would die in 20 seconds at a show
[23:15:47] <renesis> its silly to compare studio monitors with workhorse active speakers
[23:16:05] <renesis> i seen these things rusted and dented still pushing audio
[23:16:08] <furrywolf> correct. they're studio monitors. they're meant to be used while mixing, not trying to fill a stadium.
[23:16:33] <renesis> um, these fill tiny venues
[23:16:41] <renesis> and your monitors are ancient
[23:16:56] <renesis> soft parts prob all stretched the fuck out =)
[23:17:39] <furrywolf> less than 1% THD, and a nice flat frequency response over a nice wide range.
[23:18:11] <renesis> measured or quoting 30 year old marketing
[23:18:55] <furrywolf> quoting. and I believe their 30 year old marketing a lot more than I believe most new marketing. the numbers add up, for example. :P
[23:20:05] <renesis> i dont trust marketing
[23:20:09] <renesis> i trust measurements
[23:20:13] <furrywolf> http://www.oaktreevintage.com/web_photos/hi-fi/Jerry_G_OakTreeVintage_1960s-1970s-1980s_Classic-Vintage_Stereo_Speakers_dealer-collection-smaller.jpg I have several of those pairs. lol
[23:21:42] <zeeshan> !
[23:23:45] <furrywolf> hrmm, my sansuis claim to go down to 25hz, but the specs I found convieniently don't mention whether that's -3db or -30db...
[23:24:16] <renesis> id rather have a spec with a random rolloff value than one without
[23:24:30] <renesis> you can test really easy
[23:24:37] <renesis> do a nearfield
[23:24:45] <renesis> if theyre ported, you have to do summed nearfield
[23:24:58] <renesis> and sum them proportional to radiating area
[23:25:39] <renesis> get really good measurements up to around 100-150 Hz until you hit the baffle step
[23:27:10] <renesis> dont you hate it when you leave the channel mute on and think youve instantly gone deaf in one ear
[23:27:53] <renesis> hehe, so this thing was cutting out and lighting up the peak LED any mild kick
[23:27:59] <renesis> even with the 75Hz HPF on
[23:28:00] <furrywolf> no, because it's never happened.
[23:28:18] <renesis> so either psu or mechanical
[23:28:27] <renesis> but then i hit it in the heatsink
[23:28:47] <renesis> if i did it hard enough to get it tilting on its feat, same cut out, same clip LED
[23:28:57] <renesis> def mechanical
[23:29:18] <renesis> w00t #justspeakerthings
[23:35:41] <furrywolf> can't find specs for my other sansuis. oh well.
[23:36:19] <furrywolf> they have way too large of drivers for the size of the box, so I'm not expecting them to be great. :)
[23:36:47] <renesis> thay might have low Vas, shrug
[23:36:48] <furrywolf> sansui didn't like leaving any space available on the front of the cabinet. have to stick a driver everywhere one will fit.
[23:37:09] <renesis> anyway, if you want to know, measure them
[23:51:47] <zeeshan-mill> man ive been running this mill for like 7 hours
[23:51:53] <zeeshan-mill> so tired :/
[23:52:51] <furrywolf> go to bed? that's what I'm about to do.
[23:53:18] <zeeshan-mill> one more hour
[23:53:34] <LeelooMinai> Hmm, I think I will make my own board to grab data from the indicator and pass onto rs485 network
[23:53:53] <LeelooMinai> And then I will get at it from linuxcnc
[23:54:18] <LeelooMinai> Seems like the most robust and flexible plan
[23:54:41] <zeeshan-mill> hows the response time
[23:54:49] <zeeshan-mill> for the dial indicator data over serial
[23:55:32] <LeelooMinai> It's kind of irrelevant in this case
[23:55:53] <LeelooMinai> Because the indicator sends data periodically at it's own rate
[23:56:12] <LeelooMinai> Hmm, let me see how frequent it is - I have it in the logic analyzer capture
[23:56:25] <zeeshan-mill> i didnt ask for relevance =p
[23:56:34] <LeelooMinai> About 9 times per second
[23:56:38] <zeeshan-mill> i want to know how many samples per sec it can handle
[23:56:48] <zeeshan-mill> thats not bad at all
[23:57:15] <zeeshan-mill> probing!
[23:57:35] <LeelooMinai> Well, that depends on the signal chain. IN my case I will have rs485 -> transceiver iC -> some micro -> ftdi to usb
[23:57:58] <LeelooMinai> BUt rs485 in itself should be no problem - at such short distances it can do 10Mbps no problem
[23:58:39] <LeelooMinai> And good thing is I can add any number of monitors on it - more indicators or some callipers or whatever
[23:59:15] <LeelooMinai> I will have to make the board though since it will need to handle low voltage signalling - 1.2V as those indicators seem to do
[23:59:49] <LeelooMinai> It will be pretty small and cheap though
[23:59:57] <furrywolf> "432,065,306 22.8M/s in 19s" I really wish my home connection download things that fast.