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[00:08:23] <pcw_home> If you want it running on non-supported dist you probably have to build it from source
[00:09:05] <pcw_home> (as I did on ubuntu 14.04)
[00:13:00] <pcw_home> zzzzzzzzzzzzzz
[00:13:00] <Computer_Barf> ok build from source, got it.
[00:41:20] * LeelooMinai poders why only one company seems to be making those: http://global.wago.com/en/products/new-items/overview/basic-page-90.jsp
[00:44:41] <Rab> Maybe nobody else can get a SMT screw terminal to stick to the board.
[00:45:48] <LeelooMinai> If you used bubble gum, maybe it would not stick:)
[00:46:37] <LeelooMinai> I am meking a sensor board - all I need is some kind of tiny terminal for cat5 cables - they are tiny
[00:47:07] <LeelooMinai> I mean wires that are inside cat5 cables - they are 24 or 26 gauge
[00:47:16] <Rab> Wow, tiny little lands according to the datasheet. 2x 1x0.8mm pads.
[00:47:46] <LeelooMinai> Yes, and low profile. The only ones I see are those monsters that everyone uses.
[00:48:25] <Rab> Looks like these are intended for alu-core IMS PCB like you might find in LED lighting, where you don't really get the option of through-hole terminals.
[00:50:16] <LeelooMinai> Right... Well, I am trying to find some small solution for those small-gauge signal cables. This is the only one that looked small, smd
[00:50:41] <LeelooMinai> But they are expensive
[00:50:52] <LeelooMinai> So I need to look more probably
[00:53:23] <Rab> Looks like China is cloning them:
http://jinweilight.en.alibaba.com/product/283653462-210849558/SMD_terminal_block.html
[00:53:32] <Rab> Might be able to find on AliExpress.
[00:53:38] <LeelooMinai> Hmm, indeed
[00:54:00] <LeelooMinai> I guess they make a lot of led-related stuff, so figured they can as well clone those:)
[00:54:57] <Rab> Hmm, this is actually more expensive than the Wago 2059 at Future Electronics:
http://www.aliexpress.com/item/Free-shipping-10pcs-lot-Wago-SMD-terminal-block-with-push-buttons-in-tape-and-reel-packing/32315134269.html
[00:55:20] <LeelooMinai> Right, I cannot find any good deal
[00:55:21] <Rab> I think it's a clone of the 2060, somewhat larger (18ga max).
[01:12:30] <LeelooMinai> Chinese fail at making brand names:
http://i.imgur.com/mnstP63.png
[01:16:24] <renesis> mean well is the coolest brand name ever
[01:17:56] <LeelooMinai> I think i have a constant current led driver from them
[01:18:31] <renesis> ive never had a problem with semi-open frame dc supplies from them
[01:19:07] <renesis> i just like like how its ambiguous and can mean 'good intentions' or 'badass reservoir'
[01:19:56] <LeelooMinai> Maybe they really mean well:)
[01:19:58] <renesis> its more subtle than Ever Victory, which is a consumer electronics contract manufacturer in china
[01:20:21] <renesis> leeloominai: yes, or maybe it is a mean well of power
[01:20:43] <renesis> and can take on any of your puny loads
[01:20:53] <renesis> knowing the chinese, either is likely
[01:21:25] <LeelooMinai> I saw lot's of names with "good" "happy" etc. in them, so I vote for mean well meaning well:)
[01:21:50] <renesis> thats suggests failure, tho
[01:21:59] <renesis> the chinese never fail
[01:22:59] <renesis> The 2059 Series are predestined for the smallest installation spaces.
[01:23:12] <renesis> how can you deny its fate?
[01:24:17] <LeelooMinai> Ok, I give up - will just use 200 mil connectors, like everyone else
[01:38:54] <ReadError> anyone found art of electronics 3rd rev ebook yet? :)
[01:41:21] <ReadError> oops misstype
[01:43:49] <renesis> readerror: do you has a scanner?
[02:05:44] <ReadError> renesis yea
[02:10:19] <Deejay> moin
[02:19:45] <renesis> readerror: you should make a pdf for everyone
[02:33:09] <ReadError> renesis lol i wish my time was that useless ;(
[02:56:56] <renesis> doesn't stu do that for a living?
[02:57:13] <renesis> heheheh
[02:57:50] <renesis> my 2nd redition is in a box somewhere, the pdf i downloaded is all i have for ref
[02:58:17] <renesis> id prob still buy the 3rd ed if i downloaded a copy, my 2nd edition is worn the fuck out
[02:58:49] <renesis> and textbooks on a tablet have definitely convinced me that actual books are better
[02:59:04] <renesis> tho yeah, not having to carry the extra 20 lbs around on my back is nice
[03:00:02] <renesis> fuck i wish this semester would end
[03:01:19] <renesis> least i dont have to worry about my dad or my mentor dying in the middle of one again
[03:03:33] <renesis> readerror: also, youd prob have to destroy to book to get a decent rip =( =( =(
[03:32:01] <archivist_herron> AoE is a toy book, there are better books to get
[03:32:42] <ReadError> well its nice having both
[04:42:54] <XXCoder> malcom2073: which engine?
[05:46:58] <Deejay> bye
[06:33:16] <renesis> 08:10 < archivist_herron> AoE is a toy book, there are better books to get
[06:33:27] <renesis> yeah, most people dont agree
[06:34:03] <renesis> and its meant for grad level non EE, in that context its pretty rad
[06:34:22] <renesis> feel free to provide some links, though
[06:35:06] <renesis> also the bad circuits section is awesome, still makes me smile
[06:39:11] <SpeedEvil> AoE is bad, if you are trying to use it as a grad level EE book
[06:39:48] <SpeedEvil> But even then, I would say someone that's read through several times and understood it - will be a better EE than one that hasn't.
[06:40:26] <SpeedEvil> Simply remembering formulae fades fast, compared to actual 'rule of thumb' models.
[06:40:34] <renesis> its for non EE
[06:41:41] <renesis> and i understood the majority of it with an AS degree in electronics, still an awesome read
[06:43:54] <renesis> If you have a Masters in physics or chemistry, the practical shit in theres is probably going to be super useful.
[06:44:58] <renesis> the acoustic engineer with a master in physics that i know loves the shit out of it, and he's the target demographic
[09:18:08] <archivist_herron> renesis, I find that when I try to look up some thing is misses of the detail I want, too superficial
[10:27:41] <ssi> morn
[11:00:00] <JT-Shop> lol I thought the CRT on the VMC was going bad but it was only dirty
[11:00:18] <JT-Shop> at first I thought my glasses were dirty
[11:00:43] <pcw_home> CRTs are dust magnets
[11:01:33] <pcw_home> or on the positive side, electrostatic air cleaners
[11:01:51] <archivist> JT-Shop, way back in the 1970's we had to go clean CRTs at customers houses, I went to one and the crap was on her side!
[11:21:51] <zeeshan> hows everyone doing today!
[11:23:51] <archivist> dunno
[11:24:35] <zeeshan> why not!
[11:24:44] <zeeshan> i lost on that precision level
[11:24:48] <zeeshan> :/
[11:24:59] <archivist> you didnt try hard enough
[11:25:02] <zeeshan> cause i was stuck doing something erlse instead of bidding
[11:25:10] <zeeshan> yes
[11:25:11] <zeeshan> i failed
[11:26:10] <archivist> I failed on a Gleason book on designing bevels, I did not open a letter, didnt know I had a cheque
[11:27:32] <archivist> found the cheque half an hour past the deadline, so went for the Sigma pitch measuring machine :)
[11:27:44] <zeeshan> ;p
[11:28:42] <archivist> I need to calibrate its screw so I can measure to a gnats cock
[11:49:08] <renesis> archivist_herron: yeah in a lot of cases that's definitely true, but i don't know how you do a practical overview that broad without skipping some stuff
[11:49:34] <renesis> hopefully the microcontroller section isn't just about 8051 anymore
[11:50:55] <archivist> renesis, I find one of my other books generally has what I need, if not the web
[11:51:10] <renesis> if you knew next to nothing and had only done idealized circuits in a physics class, the book would point you in the right direction
[11:51:29] <archivist> or keep you in the dark
[11:51:54] <archivist> I think some are badly misled by overview style books
[11:51:59] <ssi> pcw_home: lasers are dust magnets too :)
[11:52:09] <renesis> if one is left in the dark because you couldnt research further, i dont care so much
[11:52:19] <archivist> and greased up ways
[11:52:38] <renesis> i totally 3rd person 2nd person'd that sentence
[11:53:03] <archivist> renesis, a bit like the reprap crowd just follow the herd
[11:53:03] <renesis> lesbian english teacher would be dissapoint
[11:53:20] <renesis> yeah im not a 3d printing fan
[11:53:37] <renesis> well, not the way that crowd is handling it
[11:53:38] <Rab> renesis, AoE is a cookbook...complements textbooks, doesn't replace them.
[11:54:08] <ssi> I had a hardback copy of AoE that was one of my prize posessions
[11:54:13] <renesis> well, right its a two semester non EE grad level text, it starting from zero in a practical sense
[11:54:15] <ssi> but now it's gone :'(
[11:54:16] <renesis> its an awesome book
[11:55:11] <renesis> show me where i said it is the definitive source of all electronics knowledge for experts in the field and ill shutup
[11:55:55] <renesis> this is like saying cookbooks for food are retarded because theyre not getting into the details of organic chemistry
[11:58:34] <renesis> like, do you think it should be more? i feel like its exactly what the introduction says it is
[12:00:14] <archivist> touting it as a cookbook for anything, then lacking the detail to actually cook a particular meal, to me puts it in the not fit for purpose bin
[12:00:47] <renesis> so you think that a 2 semester course should use an EE programs worth of textbooks to teach
[12:02:03] <renesis> its an introduction to practical electrtonics for people who have had a short, narrow and theoretical education in it
[12:02:10] <Rab> archivist, theoretical materials aren't going to give you a broad overview of circuit topologies used in the real world.
[12:02:10] <renesis> my guess is neither of you are those
[12:02:24] <renesis> actually, i know for a fact that doesnt describe rab
[12:03:33] <archivist> Rab, I know that, which is why I hate aoe being touted as a good book
[12:05:27] <renesis> well, like i said earlier, if you have something for the same application that does it better, by all means please link
[12:07:28] <archivist> I have a number of books I could not possibly link them all
[12:07:35] <renesis> so link two
[12:08:09] <CaptHindsight> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=didkQXhjeVQ yesterday evenings fun around here
[12:08:38] <archivist> http://www.collection.archivist.info/searchv13.php?searchstr=electronics+bk
[12:08:42] <renesis> omfg i will take earthquakes any day and 100 times on sunday
[12:09:15] <ssi> CaptHindsight: I heard about that... crazy
[12:09:22] <renesis> archivist: i think the 5th book in your link is awesome
[12:09:30] <renesis> im a big fan
[12:09:35] <CaptHindsight> had hail just shy of golf ball size
[12:09:57] <ssi> renesis: trololol
[12:09:59] <zeeshan> someone come over
[12:09:59] <renesis> and you would use all those books in a two semester course?
[12:10:02] <zeeshan> and help me bleed brakes!
[12:10:15] <ssi> zeeshan: I'll com ehelp you bleed brakes if you come help me set up machines
[12:10:19] <zeeshan> lol
[12:10:31] <archivist> renesis, it just means I have the book and have looked at it!
[12:10:41] <ssi> where are you exactly? vancouver or some godforsaken place like that?
[12:10:52] <zeeshan> hell no
[12:10:56] <renesis> it means you didnt take take the rewquest seriously
[12:10:58] <zeeshan> thats where the pretentious people are
[12:11:04] <archivist> then discarded and looked at some other
[12:11:05] <zeeshan> im near toronto, ontario
[12:11:07] <renesis> (sic)
[12:11:07] <zeeshan> near hamilton
[12:11:11] <ssi> you're near toronto?
[12:11:13] <ssi> SWEET
[12:11:13] <zeeshan> yea
[12:11:19] <zeeshan> that woman named LeelooMinai
[12:11:21] <zeeshan> is near by
[12:11:21] <ssi> I thought you were west coast for some reason
[12:11:31] <zeeshan> maybe cause im up till 5am?
[12:11:31] <zeeshan> :D
[12:11:33] <ssi> I was actually planning on going to toronto this summer
[12:11:54] <zeeshan> dude definitely stop by
[12:11:56] <zeeshan> we'll get some food
[12:11:59] <zeeshan> cnc some shit
[12:12:00] <ssi> definitely
[12:12:46] <ssi> I need to figure out what it takes to fly to canadia
[12:12:51] <archivist> cnc some shit, ew, smell milling
[12:13:02] <archivist> wings
[12:13:22] <ssi> I have like eight of those
[12:13:57] <archivist> I has none
[12:14:06] <zeeshan> i live 5 min from hamilton airport
[12:14:07] <ssi> zeeshan: dude you're only 628nm from me
[12:14:12] <ssi> yea CYHM
[12:14:14] <ssi> I was just looking at that
[12:14:25] <ssi> sry 621.8nm from 4A7 to CYHM
[12:14:37] <ssi> if I get the twinkie it'll be 3.8 hr flight
[12:14:46] <zeeshan> can you make that in one flight
[12:14:47] <zeeshan> without refuel
[12:14:50] <ssi> absolutely
[12:14:55] <ssi> twinkie holds 120 gallons
[12:14:57] <ssi> I can go like 1500nm in it
[12:15:05] <zeeshan> wow thats not bad range at all
[12:15:22] <ssi> I can almost but not quite get there in one leg in my cherokee
[12:15:37] <ssi> but I need to figure out what the deal is with customs
[12:15:45] <zeeshan> 1726.17 miles/ 120 gallons
[12:15:47] <ssi> probably have to stop near buffalo and get an exit sticker or some shit
[12:15:49] <zeeshan> wtf
[12:15:52] <zeeshan> you get better gas mileage than my subari
[12:15:54] <zeeshan> subaru
[12:15:55] <zeeshan> hahah
[12:15:56] <ssi> hahaha yup
[12:16:03] <ssi> at 200mph
[12:16:04] <ssi> heheheh
[12:16:19] <zeeshan> i was under the impression airplanes were gas guzzlers
[12:16:22] <zeeshan> but thats not bad at all
[12:16:22] <ssi> they are
[12:16:29] <ssi> but subarus are worse :)
[12:16:32] <zeeshan> haha
[12:16:44] <ssi> the RV will be crazy efficient
[12:16:54] <ssi> 185 knots on 11 gph
[12:16:56] <ssi> 42 gal capacity
[12:17:06] <ssi> 193mpg
[12:17:09] <ssi> 19.3 mpg rather
[12:17:15] <zeeshan> corvette territory
[12:17:49] <ssi> the twinkie is the most efficient twin out there
[12:18:06] <archivist> as bad as the van I am borrowing that is 25mpg on a run
[12:18:19] <zeeshan> archivist: i forgot to ask you this
[12:18:23] <zeeshan> how far are you from luton
[12:18:28] <ssi> archivist: your van won't make 25mpg at 212mph :)
[12:18:35] <archivist> about 90 miles
[12:18:54] <archivist> it is a brick at 50 mph
[12:19:25] <ssi> zeeshan: I can drive my car to your place without refueling too :P
[12:19:38] <zeeshan> haha
[12:20:08] <zeeshan> http://www.princessauto.com/en/detail/16-gauge-pistol-grip-electric-metal-shear/A-p8343055e
[12:20:13] <zeeshan> have you guys used this type of tool before
[12:20:27] <ssi> I have a pneumatic one
[12:20:32] <zeeshan> does it work well?
[12:20:36] <archivist> the ford mondeos do about 55 mpg, need to get another one
[12:20:38] <ssi> they don't turn corners super tightly, but they do ok
[12:21:07] <zeeshan> archivist: i thought everyone in the uk rode unicycles
[12:21:11] <zeeshan> you guys have cars?
[12:21:15] <archivist> I have used a hand type (unpowered)
[12:21:20] <zeeshan> :-)
[12:21:51] <archivist> get a crop/shear if you have space
[12:22:03] <zeeshan> im wondering how long the blades last?
[12:22:08] <zeeshan> http://www.princessauto.com/en/detail/powerfist-14-gauge-barrel-grip-electric-metal-shear/A-p8571481e
[12:22:10] <zeeshan> this one is on sale too
[12:22:12] <zeeshan> for $50
[12:22:46] <ssi> prolly last a long time if you're cutting aluminum
[12:22:48] <archivist> Online Availability: Not in Stock
[12:22:49] <ssi> just don't nick the blades
[12:22:53] <ssi> they go to shit if they're nicked
[12:23:06] <zeeshan> archivist: local store has
[12:23:07] <archivist> grind them up if damaged
[12:23:17] <zeeshan> i dont have a cbn wheel
[12:23:23] <zeeshan> thats another thing i need :/
[12:23:32] <ssi> I need to get some decent wheels for my bench grinder
[12:23:38] <zeeshan> i gotta go , bbl
[12:23:40] <ssi> I have an 8" HF grinder that still has the original HF wheels on it
[12:23:51] <ssi> and I swear they're made by someone taking an 8" holesaw to the parking lot
[12:23:57] <ssi> it's just like a chunk of asphalt
[12:25:14] <archivist> I got a cheapo double ender from Aldi, came with a coarse and a fine wheel, had to true the wheels to get the vibration down
[12:25:46] <SpeedEvil> Aldi has some quite decent stuff at times
[12:26:12] <SpeedEvil> Sometimes they seem to typo the price
[12:26:20] <SpeedEvil> Got a 12V three stage battery charger for 2.99
[12:26:30] <SpeedEvil> I think it was meant to be 12.99 as it was next years
[12:27:54] <archivist> I got three ultrasonic cleaners for my clock and watch type of work, they discounted after they didnt all sell in the first week :)
[12:33:17] <roycroft> funny you should mention ultrasonic cleaners
[12:33:27] <roycroft> i've been putting in offers for a new one
[12:33:51] <roycroft> i have a little 1.3L unit that i've been using in my shop for years, but i sometimes need to clean larger parts, so i'm going to get a 6L one
[12:33:58] <archivist> I also use then for cleaning my gear cutters
[12:34:09] <roycroft> just about everyone i've talked to about it thinks i'm nuts for buying one
[12:34:13] <roycroft> they don't get how useful they are
[12:34:50] <archivist> exceeedingly useful, I just hate the prices for large tank units
[12:34:56] <roycroft> i just finished milling some parts with semi-complex profiles, and several drilled/tapped holes
[12:35:06] <roycroft> they needed to be painted
[12:35:21] <roycroft> so i wiped them down with mineral spirits to get most of the cutting oil off
[12:35:27] <roycroft> but there's no way they're ready for paint after that
[12:35:48] <roycroft> 10 minutes in the ultrasonic cleaner and they were in perfect condition to paint
[12:35:57] <roycroft> i can't imagine an easier way to do it
[12:36:12] <roycroft> the chinese ones work fairly well and are not that expensive
[12:36:20] <archivist> I had a part with oil gone hard, gave it a bit of time in the ultrasonic and a bit of time with wd40, nicely freed up now
[12:36:22] <roycroft> the 6L units i'm looking at are going for US$150 shipped
[12:36:33] <roycroft> i'm putting in offers of $120
[12:36:40] <roycroft> i'll get someone to take that offer eventually
[12:36:49] <roycroft> iirc i paid over $200 for the 1.3L unit years ago
[12:37:05] <roycroft> and imo they're fairly useless without heaters
[12:37:37] <roycroft> 18-20 degrees just doesn't do it - the one i currently have can be set to 70 degrees, and that is perfect
[12:37:41] <archivist> I am using white spirit for the cheap cleaning jobs
[12:37:53] <roycroft> i keep the tank full of plain water most of the time
[12:38:16] <archivist> mine has no temperature control but does get reasonably hot
[12:38:18] <roycroft> when i need to use simple green or a solvent for small parts i put the solvent in a jar, set the jar in the basket, and put the parts in the jar
[12:38:44] <roycroft> the 6L one has a drain valve, so that makes changing fluids a lot easier
[12:39:27] <roycroft> they're also ideal for cleaning eyeglasses
[12:39:39] <archivist> for brass clock parts, two baths, one with a water based cleaner, and the other with a spirit rinse to dewater it
[12:39:56] <roycroft> a rinse tank would be nice
[12:40:46] <archivist> carry over is a problem though so I end up chucking the solutions reasonably quickly
[12:41:00] <roycroft> yeah, that could be a problem
[12:41:14] <roycroft> and honestly, the drain feature of the new one is almost as important to me as the increased capacity
[12:41:26] <roycroft> the current one i just have to turn upside down and dump to drain
[12:43:01] <archivist> and then even though sealed, the corrosion gets to the start stop buttons
[12:43:42] <roycroft> the ones i'm looking at have brass drain valves, though
[12:43:45] <roycroft> which do not impress me
[12:43:53] <roycroft> i'll probably replace the valve with a ss one
[12:44:26] <cradek> this is like the one I use:
http://forums.watchuseek.com/f425/fs-watch-cleaning-machine-l-r-vari-matic-410041.html
[12:44:57] <roycroft> that one is interesting
[12:45:22] <archivist> I have a version of that type
[12:45:36] <roycroft> i'm looking at ones like this:
[12:45:37] <roycroft> http://tinyurl.com/oedl7uy
[12:45:47] <roycroft> which are very similar to the one i have, but larger
[12:46:42] <cradek> oh wow, on mine the pilot lamp on the front is important to the operation (like an AA5 radio)
[12:47:23] <roycroft> i was going to sell my old one when i get the new one but i do use the thing so often i might just bring the old one into the house to use for domestic cleaning tasks
[12:48:44] <archivist> we had those rotating cleaners at the old place too, good for watch parts but sometimes have to untangle the balance spring after use :)
[12:50:16] <cradek> yeah if you leave it on the balance and put it facing downward in the top tray it's usually fine
[12:51:06] <cradek> can't find a schematic for the ultrasonic unit - wonder what tube it is (it's huge and bright)
[12:51:38] <archivist> I have a tube based one here, a triode
[12:52:44] <roycroft> i've seen some that are switchable between 20kHz and 40kHz
[12:53:03] <archivist> part of the number is missing but its seems RCA 812A
[12:53:07] <roycroft> i'm not sure how useful that would be - they are quite a bit more expensive then the ones that are only 40kHz
[12:53:19] <cradek> roycroft: interesting
[12:53:41] <cradek> roycroft: mine has a knob you turn to find maximum resonance, no idea what frequency that is
[12:54:53] <roycroft> i can hear mine a little, but i suppose that i'm hearing 20kHz and 10kHz harmonics
[12:55:16] <roycroft> i'm already contemplating making a cleaning station outside my main shop if the new one is louder than the current one
[12:55:22] <archivist> or anything rattling in hearing range
[12:55:38] <roycroft> i can hear it with the basket out and no parts in it
[12:55:46] <roycroft> and it's a pretty high frequency sound
[12:56:05] <roycroft> certainly i can hear rattling when the basket and parts are in it
[12:56:46] <archivist> I wonder if the cheat and just hit the peizo with a square wave and let the items and liquid resonate
[12:57:00] <roycroft> well
[12:57:05] <roycroft> they're cheap and chinese
[12:57:18] <roycroft> so there's a good chance they do that
[12:58:30] <archivist> I have always thought that as there is a buzz to them
[12:58:50] <roycroft> http://tinyurl.com/pj725kw
[12:58:56] <roycroft> that one is an interesting size
[12:59:10] <roycroft> perhaps it's designed for crankshafts/camshafts?
[12:59:46] <archivist> chunky, I want, cant have
[13:00:15] <JT-Shop> if I hurry up I might get caught up to where I wanted to be last week by next week
[13:00:54] <archivist> do an all nighter
[13:01:18] <JT-Shop> I don't stay up all night any more lol
[13:01:50] <JT-Shop> Yea today is Pesach VII day
[13:01:53] <archivist> get up in the middle of the night and do a bit then
[13:02:16] <roycroft> usually when i hurry up i get farther beind
[13:02:18] <roycroft> behind
[13:02:57] <roycroft> i guess the long skinny ones are for gun barrels
[13:03:08] <roycroft> i'm not a gun person so that did not come to mind
[13:03:19] <archivist> the swapping from job to job is what really kills efficiency
[13:03:42] <roycroft> yes
[13:03:54] <roycroft> and at my day job too - an ongoing issue with my boss
[13:04:16] <JT-Shop> at least the parts in the VMC take 20 minutes so I have time to make parts on the BP too
[13:04:28] <roycroft> he drinks thick muddy coffe by the pot and is constantly jumping from job to job, thinking he's getting a lot done because he's working on so many things at once
[13:04:44] <roycroft> i tend to focus on one task and take it completion, then move on to the next
[13:05:00] <roycroft> and when i'm interrupted it takes me time to catch up to where i was when i go back to the previous task
[13:10:20] <JT-Shop> I have an ongoing issue with my boss too... he wants to take a nap everyday
[13:15:18] <_methods> hahah
[13:18:49] <skunkworks> gene78, are you trying to run that program on a lathe? :)
[13:18:56] <JT-Shop> I'm guessing the T-Slot cutter should go down the middle the first couple of cuts at some ridiculous slow speed
[13:20:14] <gene78> yes sam, and kmail is crashing when I hit reply. I come out here, and the lathe box has crashed fir the 2nd time today
[13:20:17] <_methods> oh yeah
[13:20:37] <archivist> it will crash if damp
[13:21:02] <_methods> JT-Shop: don't try and hog it all in one shot
[13:21:11] <_methods> i treat tslot cutters about like slitting saws
[13:21:14] <_methods> with fear
[13:21:20] <gene78> Just tapped the rest on that, and I'll bet that back in the house, kmail has recovered.
[13:22:11] <gene78> In your msg Sam, you sau it works for you, "did not make any changes"?
[13:24:04] <JT-Shop> _methods, this is what I'm doing
http://ibin.co/1xlwoSGth4vP
[13:24:25] <JT-Shop> with a 1" OD 1/4" thick 1/2" shank slotting cutter
[13:24:29] <_methods> yeah i saw it yesterday
[13:24:47] <JT-Shop> I'm milling the center out now
[13:25:01] <rob_h> a big bucket full i hope ;)
[13:25:06] <_methods> yeah i try to use an undersize cutter for a pass
[13:25:16] <_methods> 1 pass up both sides
[13:25:23] <JT-Shop> if I go down the center then the cut will be 1/8" on each side
[13:25:28] <_methods> then come in and finish up with tslot to size
[13:25:40] <gene78> Sam, did a full powerdown reboot, 3rd crash on the lathe.
[13:25:41] <JT-Shop> bucket full of parts or cutters lol
[13:25:44] <_methods> all depends on slot and cutter size
[13:26:00] <rob_h> parts i hope... not good when u have more cutters than bits
[13:26:17] <JT-Shop> hmm I wonder if I have something to cut part way with
[13:26:39] <_methods> well i don't know if you have any extra cutters or not
[13:26:52] <_methods> so with slitting saws and tslot cutters i'm always very cautions
[13:26:55] <_methods> cautious
[13:27:03] <_methods> untill i get a feel for how they are acting
[13:27:36] <_methods> you never know you may be able to just roll right through it in one shot
[13:28:09] <JT-Shop> I have three other cutters that will cut on one side by 1/8"
[13:28:13] <_methods> just keep a finger on teh feed hold lol
[13:28:21] <JT-Shop> so I can rough it out with them
[13:28:25] <JT-Shop> yea for sure
[13:28:29] <_methods> yeah that's the best way
[13:28:31] <_methods> keep it light
[13:28:43] <_methods> was 1018 right?
[13:28:49] <JT-Shop> 1215
[13:28:52] <_methods> oh
[13:28:54] <JT-Shop> easy to machine
[13:28:58] <_methods> good
[13:29:14] <JT-Shop> the print said 1018 but I'm using 1215
[13:29:15] <gene78> Third, full cold boot, still no pass, bad charceter y in line 12
[13:29:29] <gene78> Ideas?
[13:29:47] <_methods> get rid of all that silliness and just put in g1 moves
[13:29:59] <_methods> to actual x y coordinates
[13:30:21] <_methods> or drown lol
[13:30:22] <JT-Shop> gene78, you doing this on a lathe?
[13:30:29] <gene78> yes
[13:31:09] <JT-Shop> do you have a Y axis?
[13:31:22] <_methods> xz sorry
[13:32:12] <gene78> Damn, thats it! x,z on a lathe, thanks Sam from the dumb old man!
[13:32:16] <archivist> gene78, Y in your code?
[13:34:00] <JT-Shop> gene78, btw you don't need both M2 and the % wrapper only one is needed and the behavior is different
[13:34:31] <JT-Shop> I recommend using M2 only unless you have a need to not have a program end
[13:35:30] <archivist> for those stateside with spare cash and want to play with old gear and lasers
http://www.ebay.co.uk/sch/tek-tool-37/m.html
[13:36:15] <_methods> your store?
[13:36:45] <archivist> no
[13:37:11] <archivist> no way I would be selling that sort of toy!
[13:37:46] <_methods> haha
[13:38:09] <JT-Shop> I have too much "stuff" now lol
[13:38:12] <gene78> Gotcha Sam, thats always been unclear, and it usually barks at me.
[13:39:26] <archivist> damn, he has the son of the 26 GHz signal generator I have
[13:41:48] <archivist> apparently none worked to full spec when new
http://www.collection.archivist.info/searchv13.php?searchstr=eq+1626, some left systron donner set up gigatronics and made a better one
[13:49:11] * JT-Shop looks around and doesn't see Sam anywhere...
[13:59:17] <_methods> lol
[14:00:32] <cradek> "The L&R #204 Ultrasonic Unit operates at approximately 65 kHz at the transducer"
[14:04:59] <cradek> archivist: yes the L&R is also an 812A
[14:06:10] <skunkworks> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BFNf8QuOWjg
[14:06:36] <cradek> wow, 1450V
[14:07:35] <_methods> wow you mean pathpilot stops like it should lol
[14:07:42] <_methods> what an awesome program
[14:07:47] <_methods> i should start using it
[14:08:08] <_methods> this sounds way better than linuxcnc
[14:09:53] <roycroft> heretic!
[14:10:13] <_methods> wow they used to lose home if they hit estop on mach
[14:10:18] <_methods> what a bunch of clowns
[14:12:04] <cradek> oh hey and you can actually move the view around when the machine is running
[14:12:31] <_methods> i know this is so revolutionary
[14:12:39] <_methods> i'm totally ditching linuxcnc now
[14:12:48] <XXCoder> hes in front of rebuilt fadal cnc machine
[14:13:00] <_methods> he deserves mach
[14:13:07] <XXCoder> in least it sure looks like fadal 1988
[14:13:24] <XXCoder> I know, because I run one everyday lol
[14:13:30] <_methods> that sux
[14:13:31] <skunkworks> ? what? pathpilot is linuxcnc + tormach gui..
[14:13:38] <_methods> lies
[14:13:46] <_methods> pathpilot is obviously superior
[14:13:47] <cradek> (I think he's making a joke)
[14:13:59] <skunkworks> it was hard to tell on the internet
[14:14:00] <XXCoder> that video sucks period
[14:14:04] <_methods> haha
[14:14:06] <XXCoder> mostly just guy chattong
[14:14:13] <XXCoder> show more visuals man!
[14:14:58] <cradek> haha if you jogged up too far in mach, it would smash into the limit switch and then lose its home position and offsets!?
[14:15:05] <_methods> yeah crazy
[14:15:08] <cradek> good grief
[14:15:10] <_methods> the estop thing cracked me up
[14:15:20] <_methods> and those machtards defend it like it's gold
[14:15:21] <XXCoder> thats insane
[14:15:47] <skunkworks> there are people that swear they have never ever had an issue with mach.
[14:16:02] <_methods> some people drink their own urine too
[14:16:11] <_methods> the world is crazy
[14:16:36] <XXCoder> urine would be... drinkable but I sure as heck wouldnt unless REALLY desperate
[14:16:41] <_methods> i hit the spacebar and it actually stopped
[14:16:42] <_methods> lol
[14:16:46] <_methods> now that's an opening
[14:17:16] <XXCoder> of course tormachines is priceless on website.
[14:17:50] <_methods> i love mach, except that sometimes when i hit estop it doesn't stop/loses home, sometimes it wipes out my limit switches i can't see on the screen where me tool is or going
[14:18:02] <_methods> hahahah
[14:18:18] <_methods> sounds like grbl
[14:19:13] <cradek> > I'm still stuck with Mach3 on my PCNC1100 - Soft limits would probably have saved me hours at this point with some of the complicated zeros I've had to redo in the past from jogging just slightly too far :(
[14:19:26] <cradek> that's just unbelievable to me
[14:19:41] <_methods> wow i'm sorry
[14:19:47] <XXCoder> cradek: thats just nuts. why would hitting limits cause it to lose home?
[14:20:15] <cradek> who knows
[14:20:34] <_methods> it can't chew bubblegum and walk at the same time
[14:20:46] <XXCoder> wonder if its possible to gut pc system and instalkl linuxcnc
[14:20:48] <cradek> _methods: (that was a youtube comment)
[14:20:52] <_methods> hahah
[14:20:53] <_methods> really?
[14:20:58] <XXCoder> unless linuxcnc has same proble,?
[14:21:00] <cradek> yeah a comment on that video
[14:21:07] <_methods> damn i should have read the comments
[14:21:08] <cradek> XXCoder: no, of course it doesn't
[14:21:14] <XXCoder> yeah seemed unlikely
[14:22:08] <_methods> i mean i understand that most of the users were only able to use windows
[14:22:15] <_methods> the whole *nix thing was too far out of the box
[14:22:21] <XXCoder> well laters
[14:22:24] <_methods> so that would be a huge appeal
[14:26:22] <_methods> would be funny to make a fake windows linux
[14:26:57] <_methods> didn't they make a version they were selling at walmart or soemthing that looked just like windows
[14:27:05] <Rab> I feel like that is basically what's happened.
[14:28:10] <_methods> i don't know i use xfce
[14:28:38] <_methods> kde is too whacky for me and gnome is getting all fat and bloated
[14:28:48] <_methods> and unity.............
[14:32:40] <Rab> Linux used to have all this weird, futuristic interface stuff written by programmers to entertain themselves. Then commercial interests tried to go for the desktop market, and it's been downhill ever since. Now everybody's pursuing horrible tablet interfaces for three-year-olds.
[14:33:13] * _methods is happy with xfce
[14:33:20] <Rab> I'd totally go back to Motif widgets if I could have, like, a theoretical maximum 4096 independant mouse pointers.
[14:36:30] <t12> the hagelean synthesis of windwos haters and windows
[14:36:38] <t12> into the ideal pile of shit
[14:37:18] <_methods> twm
[14:37:39] <_methods> and xfce lol
[14:37:57] <Rab> This is what I use:
http://www.all-day-breakfast.com/wmx/
[14:38:26] <_methods> there ya go
[14:40:02] <_methods> that your website?
[14:42:04] <Rab> no
[14:42:56] <_methods> guy had a bunch of pictures from malta in his flickr page
[14:42:59] <_methods> i love malta
[14:44:18] <Deejay> namd
[14:44:34] <_methods> ?
[14:47:23] <Deejay> good evening, sir
[14:47:53] <Cromaglious> ugh learning wordpress sucks
[14:47:58] <XXCoder> Rab: its linux. I just wish people would keep in mind to preserve its flexability
[14:48:08] <XXCoder> gui for kids? desktop? futuristic stuff?
[14:48:17] <XXCoder> keep that shit seperate from OS itself
[14:48:23] <XXCoder> so we can choose
[14:48:40] <Rab> XXCoder, agreed 100%
[14:49:31] <_methods> learning wordpress?
[14:49:36] <_methods> what is there to learn lol
[14:49:50] <Rab> How not to get 0wned!
[14:49:55] <_methods> don't use it
[14:49:59] <_methods> pelican
[14:50:25] <_methods> i need to move my site off wordpress
[14:50:48] <_methods> i'm just too lazy to migrate
[14:51:02] <SpeedEvil> I heard there is this new site, geocities.
[14:51:06] <_methods> hehe
[14:51:14] <_methods> angelfire
[14:51:29] <XXCoder> lol
[14:51:33] <XXCoder> had site at geocities
[14:51:43] <XXCoder> it was gone before it would be gone by now
[14:52:19] <XXCoder> I made it in hmm 1996? 98?
[14:58:04] <zeeshan> geocities is the slum of the internet!
[14:58:05] <zeeshan> :]
[14:58:23] <XXCoder> well back then hosting was expensive
[14:58:26] <zeeshan> yes
[14:58:31] <zeeshan> it was stupid expensive
[14:58:32] <XXCoder> so yeah its like cheap community lol
[14:58:44] <XXCoder> aka slums
[15:05:39] <_methods> yeah now you can get a digital ocean droplet for $5/month
[15:07:31] <furrywolf> there used to be a lot of really good geocities sites.
[15:07:50] <XXCoder> mine definitely wasnt one of em lol
[15:07:55] <zeeshan> mine either
[15:07:55] <zeeshan> haha
[15:09:42] <Tom_itx> didn't geocities spam you all the time?
[15:09:47] <Tom_itx> iirc
[15:10:11] <_methods> the whole internet
[15:10:28] <Tom_itx> anymore yeah
[15:10:41] <XXCoder> yeah so much spam. from everyone
[15:10:47] <XXCoder> not just geocities
[15:11:01] <furrywolf> spam hasn't gone away.
[15:11:25] <_methods> https://www.slurpee.com/byoc/
[15:11:27] <Tom_itx> what really irks me is when i pay good money for a product and have to uninstall a bunch of shit they pack wiht it
[15:11:27] <XXCoder> didnt say that'
[15:11:50] <furrywolf> Tom_itx: read online, don't buy products like that.
[15:11:55] <XXCoder> http://code.tutsplus.com/articles/top-10-reasons-why-the-closing-of-geocities-is-long-overdue--net-7393
[15:12:00] <furrywolf> Any company that dishonest should not have your business.
[15:12:12] <XXCoder> indeed
[15:12:35] <_methods> geocities is still around?
[15:12:39] <Tom_itx> i hope not
[15:12:52] <XXCoder> yep
[15:12:55] <furrywolf> no
[15:12:59] <XXCoder> japanese only though
[15:15:05] <Tom_itx> remember the Source and compuserv?
[15:15:08] <Tom_itx> i miss those days
[15:15:14] <Tom_itx> bbs's
[15:15:29] <XXCoder> you can have entire geocities
[15:15:36] * furrywolf ran a bbs
[15:15:39] <Tom_itx> you were the shizzle if you had a 2400b modem
[15:15:43] <XXCoder> https://www.quora.com/How-can-I-find-my-old-Geocities-pages-in-the-Wayback-Machine
[15:16:14] <furrywolf> Tom_itx: and people tied mine up playing trade wars on it. lol
[15:16:15] <SpeedEvil> furrywolf: is your connection now slower than it was then?
[15:16:16] <XXCoder> my first modem was 2400b but bbs was bit hard to find then
[15:16:28] <Tom_itx> heh
[15:16:28] <furrywolf> SpeedEvil: no, but it's not nearly as much faster as it should be.
[15:16:59] <Tom_itx> it's all relative. the faster connections we get the more spam is there to slow it down
[15:17:25] <XXCoder> heh 2400b was okay, till I got 14k modem. damn that was fast LOL
[15:17:31] <furrywolf> modern "web design" is pretty awful. oh, and it's bloated and loads really slowly too.
[15:17:56] <_methods> heh i used to play carwars on the steve jackson bbs
[15:18:08] <_methods> loved that game
[15:18:33] <XXCoder> wonder if theres still bbs around.
[15:18:41] <_methods> oh yeah
[15:18:51] <_methods> my buddy still plays some retarded pimp game on a bbs
[15:19:11] <Rab> haha
[15:20:39] <furrywolf> lol
[15:23:13] <_methods> pimpwars lol
[15:23:17] <XXCoder> http://ascii.textfiles.com/archives/2720
[15:23:19] <_methods> http://www.bbsdocumentary.com/library/PROGRAMS/DOORS/PIMPWARS/
[15:24:19] <furrywolf> I saw that once... you buy and sell drugs, carried by hos? and you need guns. but I never cared.
[15:24:33] <zeeshan> ROFL
[15:24:35] <_methods> i have no idea
[15:24:35] <zeeshan> i remember this game !
[15:24:54] <_methods> i mentioned bbs's one day
[15:25:00] <_methods> and he said he still played on bbs
[15:25:06] <XXCoder> I played federation but that was post bbs
[15:25:15] <_methods> and i was like "huh"
[15:26:11] <furrywolf> tradewars was the only game on my bbs
[15:26:30] <_methods> i used to play some stockmarket game on the bbs too
[15:26:35] <_methods> was that tradewars?
[15:26:35] <furrywolf> and I'd mess with people by editing the sector mapping so places no longer connected where they used to. :P
[15:26:59] <XXCoder> was it space theme trading?
[15:27:04] <furrywolf> no, tradewars was a space game. you'd find planets, mine resources, build defenses, make sure you have more ships than someone who doesn't like you...
[15:27:30] <XXCoder> interesting. federation you own only one ship
[15:27:38] <XXCoder> later factories but yea
[15:28:29] <_methods> i used to play the hell out of that game m.u.l.e.
[15:28:33] <_methods> on the c64
[15:28:48] <_methods> me and my buddy would almost get into fist fights over that damn game
[15:28:58] <furrywolf> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/TradeWars_2002
[15:29:54] <furrywolf> "In mathematical terms, a TradeWars universe is a directed graph in which the sectors are vertices and the warps are edges. The complexities of efficiently navigating or partitioning the graph are a large part of what makes the game so compelling." ... except when you sysop is a bitch. :P
[15:30:09] <furrywolf> s/you/your
[15:30:21] <XXCoder> lol
[15:30:27] <XXCoder> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Federation_II
[15:30:35] <furrywolf> just carefully re-connect a few sectors, and no one knows where anything is anymore...
[15:31:17] <furrywolf> ... that's like 20 years newer. lol
[15:31:41] <XXCoder> heh way too late idea for you. chaos sector. you random reconnect sectors in that spot and only one sector has reward
[15:31:45] <XXCoder> it ia
[15:31:47] <XXCoder> *is
[15:32:28] <_methods> archon was another game that could start a fist fight on occasion
[15:33:39] <JT-Shop> looks like I'm going to have to hand code the slot :(
[15:33:40] <_methods> archonII was cooler though
[15:33:51] <_methods> why?
[15:35:08] * furrywolf has never been much of a gamer, much preferring to do useful things
[15:35:19] <JT-Shop> maybe I can trick OneCNC to code it
[15:36:06] <_methods> you can always lie about the diameter
[15:36:19] <_methods> program it as a smaller tool
[15:36:26] <XXCoder> yeah
[15:36:29] <XXCoder> abused that before
[15:36:48] <_methods> or if it's easy just use the wear offset in the tool table
[15:36:54] <XXCoder> "um yeah this tool is totally .0428 and not .0468"
[15:37:06] <_methods> s/easy/easier
[15:40:50] <XXCoder> https://33.media.tumblr.com/bb735eeb71a5ac4fe5fb84e7645b6c19/tumblr_mx3oqabmxF1s9b0l1o2_250.gif heh
[15:43:41] <XXCoder> this screensaver always made me dizzy. it was basically only thing that did back then. nowdays most games do.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=emXza_b6-HU
[15:45:22] <Rab> It's like Christian Doom.
[15:47:32] <JT-Shop> so use the 0.810 edge and program a 0.550 cutter (for the .750 cutter) with an offset of 0.100 to start in the middle?
[15:48:56] <_methods> that will take a .100" cut?
[15:49:34] <_methods> and with an offset of .100 that would put you centerline i believe
[15:49:53] <_methods> but it's the end of the day so i could be wrong lol
[15:51:39] <JT-Shop> I think I got it starting down the center and stepping over 0.010 to start then down and over againg
[15:51:41] <JT-Shop> agan
[15:51:44] <JT-Shop> again
[15:51:49] <JT-Shop> end of day here too
[16:02:56] * JT-Shop drinks an orange crush while thinking of plan #B
[16:09:38] <cradek> do you also have your spine?
[16:10:32] <zeeshan> any of you guys make custom machine feet
[16:13:22] <Tom_itx> JT-Shop did
[16:13:29] <Tom_itx> ask him to show you
[16:14:42] <Tom_itx> JT-Shop, why would you have to hand code it?
[16:15:06] <JT-Shop> I think I sorted out a way to trick it into generating the code I need
[16:15:16] <Tom_itx> you know the tool width, program the bottom of the tool and allow for the width on the top
[16:15:25] <Tom_itx> for the depth
[16:15:27] <JT-Shop> I think I test it with a 1/2 wood dowel lol
[16:15:59] <JT-Shop> yea I told it the top of the material was -0.380 and take 0.1875 deep cuts
[16:16:32] <Tom_itx> the tool isn't quite wide enough for the slot is it?
[16:16:40] <JT-Shop> last one is roughing the slot :)
[16:16:41] <Tom_itx> you'll have to go deeper on the 2nd pass?
[16:16:51] <Tom_itx> in Z
[16:17:13] <JT-Shop> the first tool I'm using is a 3/4 to go 0.100 deep into the sides then using the 1" to finish
[16:17:43] <Tom_itx> 2 slot cutters?
[16:17:47] <JT-Shop> so I can cut whatever depth I want par pass
[16:17:51] <Tom_itx> or one EM and one slot cutter
[16:17:52] <JT-Shop> the 3/4 is 10
[16:18:12] <JT-Shop> I EM the middle out and have 2 slot cutters
[16:18:16] <Tom_itx> oh
[16:18:34] <Tom_itx> is that because the 1" hits both sides of the slot?
[16:18:43] <JT-Shop> I just don't know what dept of cut and what feed rate
[16:18:47] <JT-Shop> yea
[16:19:03] <JT-Shop> the 3/4 will open it up to 1.100
[16:19:25] <Tom_itx> use FSwizzard to figure your feeds
[16:19:34] <JT-Shop> I don't want to put a lot of pressure on the part as I only have a small bite on it
[16:19:34] <Tom_itx> it's pretty accurate
[16:19:48] <Tom_itx> then half what it says
[16:20:05] <JT-Shop> lol
[16:20:14] <Tom_itx> or hold on tight
[16:20:28] <Tom_itx> that's why i suggested making a round softjaw to hold it
[16:20:41] <Tom_itx> set it down in the pocket and clamp it
[16:21:21] <Tom_itx> would keep it from tilting over in the jaws
[16:21:41] <JT-Shop> yea I know
[16:21:54] <JT-Shop> don't want to waste a set of soft jaws on 16 parts
[16:22:12] <JT-Shop> fswiz doesn't have a slotting cutter
[16:22:15] <Tom_itx> hindsight says those are cheaper than a cutter
[16:22:29] <Tom_itx> just figure a regular EM with however many teeth it has
[16:22:38] <Tom_itx> it would be very close to the same
[16:23:47] <Tom_itx> you wouldn't take much more of a cut with a regular EM anyway
[16:23:54] <Tom_itx> as far as depth
[16:24:01] <JT-Shop> I don't think it comes out right, it says go 18IPM
[16:24:26] <Tom_itx> how many teeth?
[16:24:26] <JT-Shop> I have to take the face width for DOC
[16:24:30] <JT-Shop> 10
[16:24:44] <Tom_itx> what rpm?
[16:25:00] <JT-Shop> I guess 80-100 SFM
[16:25:06] <Tom_itx> 1800 ish
[16:25:07] <Tom_itx> ?
[16:25:14] <Tom_itx> maybe slower
[16:25:27] <cradek> assume about 2 of those teeth are cutting
[16:25:48] <Tom_itx> 1000 rpm at 10ipm
[16:25:51] <Tom_itx> see what that does
[16:26:17] <Tom_itx> i just pulled that outta my arse...
[16:26:42] <zeeshan> http://m4.sourcingmap.com/photo_new/20110908/g/ux_a11090800ux0296_ux_g03.jpg
[16:26:44] <zeeshan> are you using that
[16:29:17] <Tom_itx> yeah i'd go a bit slower.. around 6-800rpm and about 10 ipm or so
[16:30:07] <_methods> yeah slow and steady
[16:30:21] <_methods> easier to speed up later than to buy a new cutter
[16:30:23] <Tom_itx> flood coolant
[16:30:40] <zeeshan> flood coolant doesnt make sense at slow speeds :)
[16:30:45] <_methods> slotting, slitting and tapping
[16:30:58] <zeeshan> unless it's got oil emulsified
[16:31:05] <JT-Shop> my spreadsheet says 400-500 RPM
[16:31:07] <_methods> those three always get my pucker goin
[16:31:24] <zeeshan> 3/4 dia t-slot cutter?
[16:31:32] <Tom_itx> and 1"
[16:31:58] <JT-Shop> yea
[16:31:59] <Tom_itx> if you're gonna do that i'd just start with the 1" and cut both sides
[16:32:08] <Tom_itx> start right down the middle
[16:32:14] <Tom_itx> then work your way out
[16:32:34] <Tom_itx> that's what... about .22" cut the first pass
[16:32:52] <zeeshan> hss i guess
[16:32:59] <Tom_itx> yeah most of those are
[16:33:01] <zeeshan> i guess youre getting steel
[16:33:04] <zeeshan> *cutting
[16:33:06] <Tom_itx> 1018
[16:33:08] <JT-Shop> yea straight teeth, cutting 1215
[16:33:17] <Tom_itx> your print said 1018
[16:33:19] <zeeshan> i has used that style before
[16:33:25] <JT-Shop> I lied
[16:33:27] <Tom_itx> heh
[16:33:37] <JT-Shop> or made a mistook you choose lol
[16:33:48] <zeeshan> i see 50 sfm, and 0.003 feed per tooth
[16:33:52] <zeeshan> *did
[16:34:19] <JT-Shop> 225 and 0.4IPM
[16:34:31] <Tom_itx> you know your machine better than I but i would make the first cut right down the middle with the 1" cutter
[16:34:35] <Tom_itx> and work from there
[16:35:02] <JT-Shop> I don't feel comfortable with that...
[16:35:06] <zeeshan> 266 rpm, 9.5 ipm
[16:35:06] <Tom_itx> mkay
[16:35:13] <JT-Shop> if it tips the part I'm screwed
[16:35:16] <zeeshan> if you feed too slowly
[16:35:19] <zeeshan> you'll just plough
[16:35:19] <zeeshan> not cut
[16:35:24] <zeeshan> .4 ipm is way too slow
[16:35:35] <zeeshan> that'll kill your cutter faster
[16:35:38] <Tom_itx> oh yeah i forgot you plan to hold the part in your hand while cuttind :D
[16:35:59] <Deejay> gn8
[16:36:12] <zeeshan> the slowest you can go without ploughing is around 3 ipm
[16:36:23] <Tom_itx> does the part at least have a shoulder to rest on the visejaws?
[16:36:28] <Tom_itx> i forgot what it looked like
[16:37:04] <Tom_itx> on the other hand if you cut from front to back there will be less chance of it moving than if you went in X axis
[16:37:07] <Tom_itx> in the vise
[16:37:08] <JT-Shop> yea, it has two flats a bit bigger than 1/2 deep so it sits on parallels
[16:37:14] <_methods> maybe i shouldn't do this
[16:37:17] <_methods> http://i.imgur.com/Z3pM9dW.jpg
[16:37:27] <Tom_itx> cut in Y instead and it will hold better probably
[16:37:28] <zeeshan> is that a composite blade
[16:37:29] <zeeshan> haha
[16:37:34] <_methods> no steel
[16:37:40] <_methods> carbide teeth
[16:37:46] <zeeshan> that'll casue some trouble :P
[16:38:02] <_methods> should be interesting
[16:38:57] <Tom_itx> that or turn your vise 90 deg
[16:39:35] <Tom_itx> then it can push against the vise jaws as it cuts
[16:40:11] <Tom_itx> i suppose your flats won't allow that
[16:40:18] <JT-Shop> I don't think I want to take both vises off to turn one
[16:40:29] <JT-Shop> flats are parallel to the slot
[16:40:36] <Tom_itx> nevermind then
[16:41:04] <JT-Shop> and I don't want to move anything now until they are done
[16:41:13] <Tom_itx> yep don't blame ya
[16:41:20] <zeeshan> http://gyazo.com/1f4ebff79edfde9b6e6d4cde8132333d
[16:41:30] <zeeshan> thats a 16mm diameter hemisphere
[16:41:59] <zeeshan> http://www.carbidedepot.com/images/holders-mvvn-1.gif
[16:42:05] <zeeshan> im wondering if i can plunge this guy in
[16:42:38] <zeeshan> might not have enough clearance in the front
[16:42:47] <JT-Shop> zeeshan, what about the 1" cutter 12 tooth
[16:43:05] * JT-Shop sees his spreadsheet is broken
[16:43:19] <zeeshan> never used that before but iguess it'd be rpm= 4*50/1 = 200 rpm
[16:43:27] <zeeshan> feed = 200*12*.003
[16:43:35] <zeeshan> 7.2 ipm
[16:44:04] <Tom_itx> you sure about the rpm?
[16:44:11] <zeeshan> yea i run it slow
[16:44:16] <zeeshan> cause not enough chip evac
[16:44:18] <Tom_itx> i suppse safe is better
[16:44:24] <zeeshan> oil for lub
[16:44:26] <zeeshan> air for evac
[16:44:27] <Tom_itx> it's not that big a part
[16:44:30] <zeeshan> coolant doesnt do anythin :/
[16:44:39] <zeeshan> can help carry chips away
[16:44:50] <zeeshan> but doesnt reduce friction/cool cutting interface
[16:45:56] <JT-Shop> http://ibin.co/1xtK5j7h09ug
[16:46:21] <_methods> looks sexy
[16:46:23] <_methods> do it
[16:47:02] <_methods> you clampin in vblock?
[16:47:09] <_methods> or you cut jaws?
[16:47:10] <Tom_itx> the other thing is if the "forks" are gonna ring while you cut them
[16:47:19] <JT-Shop> I did to finish the ends and cut the flats on the bottom
[16:47:21] <zeeshan> https://www.dropbox.com/home?preview=11+cutting_fluids.pdf
[16:47:29] <zeeshan> if interested in cutting fluid performance behaviour ^
[16:47:58] <zeeshan> https://www.dropbox.com/s/vsst8f8vlnbfc1t/7%20friction%20in%20cutting.pdf?dl=0
[16:48:03] <zeeshan> theory behind friction @ interface
[16:48:13] <zeeshan> i honestly was suprised at that stuff
[16:48:16] <zeeshan> didnt know
[16:48:45] <_methods> of course you didn't you're canadian :)
[16:48:57] <JT-Shop> thanks
[16:49:24] <zeeshan> _methods or perhaps i don't pretend to know it all like 99% off the people out there
[16:49:25] <zeeshan> :-)
[16:50:06] <zeeshan> basically two points i got from theory is: no coolant or lubricant will get in at the cutting interface where the "sticking" region is
[16:50:11] <zeeshan> only coatings can help there
[16:50:33] <zeeshan> and you use coolant for high cutting speeds, and lube for slow cutting speeds
[16:50:40] <_methods> not even 10000psi coolant?
[16:50:46] <zeeshan> yea it wont get inthere
[16:50:57] <zeeshan> this prof did a lot of testing
[16:51:05] <zeeshan> its funny cause he's like
[16:51:05] <JT-Shop> I don't have a lube option and can't open the doors when running lol
[16:51:17] <zeeshan> "it looks like a hELL of a lot of work going in there with coolant flying everywhere"
[16:51:23] <zeeshan> "But it isn't even touching the interface"
[16:51:23] <zeeshan> haha
[16:51:46] <zeeshan> JT-Shop: then you will be happy to know you can buy coolant with oil emulsified in it
[16:51:54] <zeeshan> which is the best of both worlds :)
[16:52:02] <zeeshan> thats what im planning to run
[16:52:11] <Tom_itx> i forgot what we used
[16:52:16] <_methods> ok well it's margarita time here you guys have fun with your coolant lesson
[16:52:22] <JT-Shop> what brand is it?
[16:52:22] <zeeshan> haha
[16:52:34] <Tom_itx> i think what we used was mobile
[16:52:40] <Tom_itx> i can't honestly remember now
[16:53:00] <_methods> blaser swisslube baby
[16:53:03] <JT-Shop> yea cerveza time for me
[16:53:46] <zeeshan> they use ECO COOL
[16:53:47] <zeeshan> at school
[16:55:51] <zeeshan> one other interesting test he was talking about was when they use air to mix oil and water together
[16:55:55] <zeeshan> basically like a fine mist of it
[16:56:09] <zeeshan> and one 4oz bottle lasted them the whole day
[16:56:10] <zeeshan> haha
[16:56:21] <zeeshan> and worked just as well as flood
[16:56:39] <zeeshan> but their operation wasn't as chip evac critical
[16:57:16] <zeeshan> http://gyazo.com/1f4ebff79edfde9b6e6d4cde8132333d
[16:57:19] <zeeshan> how to make this hemisphere
[16:57:21] <zeeshan> 16mm diameter
[16:57:28] <zeeshan> i dont have a 16mm diameter ball nose
[16:57:40] <zeeshan> its very close to 5/8"
[16:57:49] <zeeshan> maybe just plunge a 5/8 ball nose
[16:57:51] <zeeshan> any other ideas?
[16:59:44] <Cromaglious> http://www.ebay.com/itm/Lot-of-8-HP-Desktops-Dual-Core-Vista-no-hard-drive-clean/201321388340?_trksid=p2047675.c100009.m1982&_trkparms=aid%3D777000%26algo%3DABA.MBE%26ao%3D1%26asc%3D20131227121020%26meid%3D7b555b26a4ff424cb9067dc22f8cabf1%26pid%3D100009%26rk%3D1%26rkt%3D1%26sd%3D321718960050
[16:59:55] <Cromaglious> 8 fcomputer for $75
[17:00:18] <Cromaglious> pickup only peoria, il
[17:01:27] <Cromaglious> hmm shitty listing...
[17:01:55] <Cromaglious> lot of 8 doesn't mean 8 for $75, it means 1 of the lot of 8 for 75
[17:02:00] <Cromaglious> bastards
[17:07:00] <Rab> That's a really bad listing. Everybody has a common understanding of what a "lot" means in auction parlance.
[17:07:27] <Rab> Unless there are, in fact, 8 lots of 8 computers ea. ;)
[18:21:40] <_methods> i can't believe this actually worked
[18:21:44] <_methods> https://imgur.com/a/MkDt4
[18:22:26] <_methods> ended up having to cut a couple pieces with the angle grinder where it didn't quite clear
[18:22:41] <_methods> lost 3 teeth on the blade though
[18:22:50] <_methods> but i needed a new blade anyways
[18:26:27] <_methods> definitely do not do that with a blade you don't want to sacrifice
[18:29:34] <furrywolf> what did you do?
[18:30:03] <zeeshan> lol nice _methods
[18:30:17] <zeeshan> is that a hitachi angle grinder i see?
[18:30:18] <_methods> i cut that piece with that saw lol
[18:30:21] <furrywolf> imgur seems to suck even worse on pages with multiple images... is it trying to send the whole large image scaled down in the browser, so they don't have to resample it server-side?
[18:30:21] <_methods> yeah
[18:30:23] <zeeshan> nice!
[18:30:24] <zeeshan> :)
[18:30:34] * _methods loves hitachi
[18:30:40] <zeeshan> i need a deadblow hammer
[18:30:41] <zeeshan> can i has yourse
[18:30:43] <furrywolf> I cut metal with a circular saw all the time.
[18:30:49] <_methods> harbor freight baby
[18:31:04] <_methods> well that piece really doesn't fit in the saw lol
[18:31:28] <_methods> and it's a carbide blade
[18:31:32] <furrywolf> yes, imgur is indeed trying to send all the full-size unresampled images scaled down in the browser. are they on fucking drugs?
[18:32:44] <furrywolf> http://www.mkmorse.com/lobby/index.aspx?lobby=12 buy. enjoy.
[18:33:18] <_methods> yeah i have to now
[18:33:24] <_methods> that shit just killed this blade
[18:33:28] <_methods> lost a bunch of teeth
[18:33:44] <furrywolf> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=osBUcn3ygLo that's how one of their blades cuts 1/4 stainless plate
[18:33:46] <_methods> well probably didn't help when i cut that hardened rod that one time lol
[18:34:02] <furrywolf> in a handheld saw
[18:35:13] <furrywolf> I have several of their blades. they're quite nice. I even have one in a dewalt cordless saw, that I can take to the scrapyard and cut stock down to size out in the yard.
[18:35:14] <_methods> the only reason i'm doing this is because all the bandsaws at work had jobs on them
[18:35:42] <furrywolf> these aren't wood blades... they're dedicated metal-cutting blades. they actually suck on wood.
[18:35:59] <_methods> i know what they are wtf you think i have on my saw
[18:36:16] <furrywolf> something else, if you broke three teeth in one cut!
[18:37:12] <furrywolf> those blades can do that all day
[18:37:58] <_methods> yeah if you cut stuff you're supposed to in my saw you can too lol
[18:38:13] <_methods> besides the fact that i've made 1000's of cuts on that blade already
[18:38:22] <furrywolf> right, so I'm assuming you're using blades meant for cutting something that isn't steel...
[18:38:58] <_methods> it's a blade for cutting ferrous metal with carbide teeth
[18:40:44] <furrywolf> maybe it was just old, then. lol
[18:40:44] <furrywolf> when you said you couldn't believe it worked, my assumption was you were cutting with a wood blade... which I've seen done for very short periods.
[18:42:51] <_methods> wow yeah no i wouldn't even try what i did with a wood blade
[18:43:03] <furrywolf> the slowest cuts I've made were 3/4" plate with a jigsaw. that was fun.
[18:43:19] <_methods> that is a chunk of 8"x3"x1/4" wall rect tubing
[18:43:32] <_methods> i don't think many wood blades would make it through that
[18:44:08] <furrywolf> they sell ones that will cut a small amount of metal before failing, usually labeled "for nail-embedded wood" or such.
[18:44:14] <SpeedEvil> How does metal and wood blades differ? Is it just better welded carbide and a differetny cut?
[18:44:40] <furrywolf> I've cut tubing similar in size to yours with my cordless saw, by doing one side then flipping it over and doing the other side.
[18:45:36] <furrywolf> SpeedEvil: fancier carbide, much stronger tooth shape (wood blades are designed for clearing sawdust, metal blades are designed to back up the carbide), less bite per tooth, very different grind.
[18:45:50] <_methods> usually the teeth, the blade, the gullet
[18:46:25] <_methods> expansion cutouts
[18:46:53] <_methods> all the blade makers put diff "magic" into their blades
[18:47:07] <_methods> most of it is BS for patents
[18:47:57] <furrywolf> looking at the difference between a wood blade and a metal blade, I wouldn't call it BS. lol
[18:48:21] <_methods> no not at all
[18:48:33] <_methods> i'm talking about between blade makers of same type of blades
[18:49:05] <furrywolf> I love metal cutting blades. I used to use a sawzall until I found them.
[18:49:46] <furrywolf> that they work in cordless tools is even more amazing... I was cutting some 2"x2"x1/4" square box the other day with a cordless saw, easily. great fun. :P
[18:50:55] <furrywolf> I know the morse blades last a lot longer than the harbor freight blades. the hf ones work, but...
[18:50:58] <roycroft> i love battery tools, especially now that they have some real *umpf* to them
[18:51:15] <zeeshan> metal blades have more beef
[18:51:16] <zeeshan> at the tip
[18:51:54] <roycroft> my favorite recent new type of tool, though was one of those little saws with the two blades spinning in opposite directions
[18:52:06] <roycroft> i was really skeptical but i found an open box one at hf for $15
[18:52:11] <roycroft> i figured it was worth a shot
[18:52:25] <roycroft> the damn thing eats through 0.120" mild steel plate like butter
[18:52:26] <furrywolf> roycroft: have you tried the morse metal cutting blades?
[18:52:31] <roycroft> and leaves a smooth cut line
[18:52:33] <roycroft> no
[18:52:42] <furrywolf> http://www.mkmorse.com/lobby/index.aspx?lobby=12
[18:52:46] <roycroft> the kerf is pretty wide though
[18:52:52] <roycroft> but with mild steel that's no worry
[18:52:59] <furrywolf> <furrywolf>
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=osBUcn3ygLo that's how one of their blades cuts 1/4 stainless plate
[18:53:04] <roycroft> if it were brass or something i'd be a little more concerned about the kerf
[18:53:19] <zeeshan> the problem with metal cutting saw blades is
[18:53:26] <zeeshan> look at the sfm theyre running at
[18:53:28] <zeeshan> :/;
[18:53:38] <roycroft> that is pretty impressive
[18:53:54] <_methods> what is this 2 blade thing roycroft
[18:54:00] <roycroft> how much are they?
[18:54:04] <furrywolf> _methods: clones of the dualsaw
[18:54:12] <_methods> never seen one
[18:54:14] <furrywolf> roycroft: $20-$150 or so depending on size
[18:54:26] <roycroft> that's not bad
[18:54:39] <_methods> nah for like my saw they are usually around $75
[18:54:50] <zeeshan> 5000 sfm
[18:54:50] <_methods> and a new blade doesn't even leave a bur
[18:54:51] <zeeshan> lol
[18:55:01] <furrywolf> as I said, depending on size. lol. the little cordless saw ones are cheaper.
[18:55:03] <roycroft> for what it does and the time it saves it would pay for itself in about 10 minutes
[18:55:15] <_methods> yeah man they are great
[18:55:19] <_methods> no burr and fast
[18:55:24] <furrywolf> they're much cheaper than sawzall blades when you consider their lifespan
[18:55:32] <_methods> but they're really only good for ferrous
[18:55:33] <roycroft> and they actually cut straight
[18:55:35] <_methods> only downside
[18:55:42] <furrywolf> the one in my cordless saw is starting to leave a burr, but it's done a lot of cuts...
[18:55:43] <roycroft> i use a tablesaw for aluminium
[18:55:56] <roycroft> i put a laminate blade on it
[18:55:58] <roycroft> and it works great
[18:56:00] <_methods> ahh good idea
[18:56:04] <roycroft> but i only ever use that blade for aluminium
[18:56:07] * _methods adds that to trick book
[18:56:10] <roycroft> never plastic or wood or anything
[18:56:11] <furrywolf> _methods: eh? they cut aluminum like butter. you can just swing them at a piece and it slices right through it.
[18:56:21] <roycroft> and i spray lots of wd40 on the work
[18:56:25] <_methods> it's bad for the blade
[18:56:33] <zeeshan> i dont understand how those blades are surviving
[18:56:35] <_methods> talking about my blades
[18:56:42] <zeeshan> cutting into steel / stainless steel at 5000 sfm
[18:56:46] <zeeshan> even though they're carbide.
[18:56:48] <_methods> zeeshan: i'm sure you'll figure it out
[18:56:54] <_methods> one day
[18:56:59] <furrywolf> zeeshan: and they last a while, too
[18:57:11] <_methods> i've abused the hell out of mine
[18:57:22] <_methods> but this last abuse might have been a bit too far lol
[18:57:22] <zeeshan> aluminum i understand
[18:57:37] <zeeshan> but thats like taking an end mill and cutting through stainless at 5000 sfm
[18:57:39] <zeeshan> it just doesnt work :P
[18:58:09] <roycroft> http://www.harborfreight.com/5-in-75-amp-heavy-duty-double-cut-saw-68316.html
[18:58:13] <roycroft> that's the hf thing i got
[18:58:25] <roycroft> it's weird - it takes little chips out of the metal
[18:58:25] <furrywolf> zeeshan: except it does work, and great too. :P
[18:58:29] <_methods> roycroft: thx
[18:58:32] <_methods> i'll check that out
[18:58:33] <roycroft> well, pretty big chips, actually
[18:58:37] <furrywolf> zeeshan: watch the video above of one cutting right through stainless
[18:58:40] <zeeshan> i saw it
[18:58:41] <zeeshan> :)
[18:58:42] <zeeshan> socery
[18:58:48] <zeeshan> its loud as hell though
[18:58:55] <zeeshan> that'd surely piss off my neighbours
[18:59:02] <_methods> interesting
[18:59:05] <roycroft> that's why wae have hearing protection
[18:59:10] <_methods> for $60 it's worth trying out
[18:59:17] <zeeshan> ill stick to the bandaw :)
[18:59:21] <roycroft> and loud stereos, for when the neighbors try to come over to complain
[18:59:31] <_methods> my lc1230 has done well
[18:59:36] <_methods> worth every penny i paid for it
[18:59:43] <_methods> first job i did with it paid for it
[19:00:07] <_methods> made a table for a glass company with air so they can float sheets of glass around
[19:00:24] <roycroft> if you don't know, _methods, you can always google "harborfreight 20% off" on your cell phone when you're in a store and a coupon will pop up that they will use at the checkout
[19:00:29] <roycroft> so that's really only a $48 saw
[19:01:03] <_methods> shit
[19:01:07] <_methods> i should have done that yesterday
[19:01:12] <_methods> got the bearing splitter kit
[19:01:15] <roycroft> it's only good for one item per visit
[19:01:18] <_methods> and a hydraulic crimper
[19:01:21] <roycroft> but you use it on the most expensive item
[19:01:30] <_methods> either one would have saved me money
[19:01:33] <furrywolf> have they fixed the die sizes in the crimper yet?
[19:01:34] <roycroft> or buy one at a time, and use a different checkout line the second time
[19:01:35] <_methods> see that's why i hang out in here
[19:02:03] <_methods> people like roycroft
[19:02:27] <roycroft> because i'm forgetful
[19:02:36] <_methods> i wish you would have imparted this wisdom yesterday lol
[19:02:47] <roycroft> and kept forgetting my coupon, until one day a checker at hf asked me if i had a cell phone with me and told me what to google
[19:03:09] <furrywolf> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fMOxvzBoNgo morse advertisement with more demos
[19:03:27] <roycroft> i don't need any more demos, furrywolf
[19:03:33] <roycroft> i just need to find a dealer
[19:03:38] <roycroft> which is probably amazon
[19:03:47] <zeeshan> lol
[19:03:49] <roycroft> and put it in next month's tooling budget
[19:03:51] <zeeshan> those guys dont know what hteyre talking about
[19:03:52] <zeeshan> LOL
[19:03:59] <zeeshan> minimize friction
[19:04:04] <zeeshan> yea you dont even know your own process
[19:04:14] <zeeshan> friction isn't even the major reason for heat generation
[19:04:16] <zeeshan> plastic deformation is
[19:04:32] <roycroft> i have a worm drive skilsaw, with the diamond knockout
[19:04:33] <furrywolf> yeah, funny, you're the one saying it can't possibly work, yet saying the manufacturers of a working product are incompetent.
[19:04:38] <roycroft> i presume they have a blade for that
[19:04:46] <zeeshan> furrywolf: simple physics dont lie
[19:04:54] <roycroft> so that youtube video is fake?
[19:04:54] <furrywolf> roycroft: yep. I have a skil worm saw with one in it, in fact.
[19:04:56] <zeeshan> metal cutting is a well studied process
[19:05:10] <roycroft> the high rpm of a skilsaw makes me wonder how the hell that blade works
[19:05:12] <furrywolf> the worm saw has more grunt for heavy cuts
[19:05:14] <roycroft> but i saw the demo
[19:05:23] <zeeshan> 70% of the heat comes from the plastic deformation
[19:05:24] <roycroft> if that wasn't faked then it definitely works
[19:05:26] <zeeshan> during chip formation
[19:05:31] <zeeshan> this is why the chip is hot as hell
[19:05:56] <furrywolf> it's not fake. I own several of them. they really do just push right through thick things like they show.
[19:05:59] <roycroft> i like the balance of a worm drive saw too
[19:06:02] <roycroft> or did when i bought it
[19:06:06] <roycroft> i was doing framing at the time
[19:06:15] <zeeshan> how long do they last?
[19:06:28] <roycroft> the standard way of cutting a 2x was to hold it up off the ground with your left foot and cut down on it
[19:06:37] <roycroft> a skilsaw is perfectly balanced for that
[19:07:03] <furrywolf> zeeshan: a while. their specs are something like 4000" of 1/4 plate.
[19:07:07] * roycroft remebers that life, 30+ years ago, which is how old his skilsaw is now
[19:07:14] <furrywolf> I don't recall the exact tests. they're buried on their website somewhere.
[19:07:23] <_methods> obviously the real reason i hang out in here is pcw_home though
[19:07:32] <roycroft> i need to get back to work
[19:07:38] <_methods> hehe
[19:07:45] <roycroft> i had a brilliant idea last night for my last bracket for my brew system plumbing
[19:07:55] <roycroft> i got all excited and drew it up in autocad today
[19:07:57] <_methods> share pics
[19:08:00] <roycroft> went out to the shop to start making chips
[19:08:03] <_methods> wehne you get it done
[19:08:05] <roycroft> and immediately saw it would not work
[19:08:11] <roycroft> so now i'm doing a quick redesign
[19:08:14] <roycroft> then it's chip time
[19:09:28] <zeeshan> okay
[19:09:33] <zeeshan> they are using 1800 rpm
[19:09:36] <zeeshan> not 5000-6000 rpm
[19:09:46] <furrywolf> depends on blade size.
[19:10:07] <furrywolf> I'm tempted to say my 6+1/4" runs at 4200, but I'd need to grab it and check.
[19:17:40] <furrywolf> a good saw shop can sharpen them, which will greatly prolong their life... but the only shop here charges about what I can get a new one on ebay for, so I just run them until they fail.
[19:20:11] <zeeshan> i give up
[19:20:18] <zeeshan> i dont get how they're cutting at 5000 sfm
[19:20:23] <zeeshan> and doing a 4000" cut in steel
[19:20:39] <zeeshan> i'll believe it when i see some proper data
[19:20:40] <zeeshan> :P
[19:20:49] <furrywolf> fancy carbide. :P
[19:20:57] <zeeshan> yea well then in that case
[19:21:02] <zeeshan> they need to put that fancy carbide in milling
[19:21:07] <zeeshan> and revolutionze the process
[19:21:20] <furrywolf> I want hole saws with their circular saw teeth on them
[19:21:36] <zeeshan> like these sfms are close to almost grinding!
[19:21:57] <furrywolf> although the core bits on my magdrill do a quite impressive job.
[19:22:31] <furrywolf> their 10" blade is 5200rpm max. what's that work out to? :P
[19:23:31] <zeeshan> 13000sfm
[19:23:35] <zeeshan> thats grinding territory
[19:23:37] <furrywolf> :P
[19:24:04] <zeeshan> ill ask the expert
[19:24:06] <zeeshan> =D
[19:24:23] <furrywolf> who is?
[19:24:35] <zeeshan> the metal cutting prof
[19:26:31] <furrywolf> their new website doesn't seem to have the life data on it anymore
[19:27:54] <furrywolf> their document on setting the right cut depth shows "300+" cuts of 6" by 1/4" mild steel plate.
[19:28:05] <furrywolf> for their 9" blade
[19:29:14] <furrywolf> dropping to 128 cuts if you set your blade depth shallow, and 95 cuts if you set it to 1/4" so it just barely cuts through. in other words it likes cutting down through the material, not scraping along it. duh? :)
[19:29:42] <SpeedEvil> I note that that seems to imply it likes heavy chip loading
[19:30:10] <SpeedEvil> with very interrupted cut, versus more 'gentle' territory
[19:30:15] <furrywolf> yes, they do. when cutting with one, it tells you how fast it wants to cut... if you apply the right amount of force, there's an obvious happy spot.
[19:30:53] <zeeshan> 1800 " cut
[19:30:54] <zeeshan> lol
[19:31:04] <furrywolf> if you push harder, all it does is slow the motor down, and the cut slows down, not speeds up. if you push gentler, it makes scrapeier noises and sparks, and cuts slower.
[19:31:36] <furrywolf> 1800" for a 9" blade... I'd imagine the 14" is close to double, both due to spreading the wear over more teeth, and better angles, cooling, etc.
[19:32:11] <SpeedEvil> That is spending a whole hundred microseconds in the cut
[19:32:52] <zeeshan> I was looking at a cold sawing process and am confused on how the blades are surviving. They typically advertise that they can cut at speeds of ~5000-8000sfm (1500m/min - 2500m/min) and get 1800" (46m) in 4"x1/4" steel flat bar. How is this possible?
[19:33:07] <zeeshan> i hope iformulated the q correctly
[19:33:27] <furrywolf> just say 1800" in 1/4" steel. specifying the bar width probably doesn't help as much...
[19:34:03] <furrywolf> although I have noticed that the start of the cut is the most likely time to chip teeth, so maybe saying that's 300 separate cuts does mean something.
[19:34:20] <furrywolf> also, that's without sharpening... a good saw shop can sharpen it before you start breaking teeth, several times.
[19:34:27] <zeeshan> the teeth look like
[19:34:30] <zeeshan> they got positive rake too
[19:34:36] <zeeshan> which is even more crazy
[19:34:39] <zeeshan> cause the tip should just snap off
[19:35:05] <SpeedEvil> zeeshan: remember that if you're looking at a saw versus a milling cutter, you've got the teeth only in the work under 1% of the time
[19:35:20] <SpeedEvil> so that's in some ways like a milling cutter lasting .46m
[19:35:36] <zeeshan> SpeedEvil: i understand that
[19:35:41] <zeeshan> but at that sfm
[19:35:44] <zeeshan> the teeth should shatter
[19:35:57] <zeeshan> the cutting edge should be destroyed instantly
[19:36:08] <furrywolf> they don't, and it isn't. :)
[19:36:13] <SpeedEvil> The key is that they are going so fast that by the time they realise they should shatter, they're out of the material
[19:36:21] <furrywolf> lol
[19:36:32] <furrywolf> kinda like when cartoon characters run off cliffs, right? :P
[19:37:53] <zeeshan> SpeedEvil: the number of teeth means you can feed faster cause the chip load per tooth is less
[19:37:54] <furrywolf> SpeedEvil: I've put mine through 1" bar, though... that's spending a lot of time in the material.
[19:38:03] <zeeshan> but it doesnt change the cutting speed
[19:38:26] <zeeshan> the faster the cutting speed
[19:38:32] <zeeshan> the more the heat generated
[19:38:36] <SpeedEvil> zeeshan: no - but it does change the distance you can go
[19:38:37] <zeeshan> the faster the cutting edge degrades
[19:39:28] <SpeedEvil> zeeshan: If you have 40 cutting teeth, then all else being equal, you can go 20* as far as if you've got two.
[19:39:29] <zeeshan> SpeedEvil: i'm not doubting that it can cut that distance if the teeth can survive
[19:39:30] <zeeshan> cause you're right
[19:39:32] <SpeedEvil> But - on the above point
[19:39:42] <zeeshan> more teeth means more overall volume of chips removed
[19:39:53] <SpeedEvil> 100us in the cut - does imply really interesting things heat-wise
[19:39:55] <zeeshan> but im more concerned about how the teeth survive the first couple of rounds
[19:40:13] <SpeedEvil> because you've only got 100us of heat-soak, then it can cool
[19:41:04] <_methods> i hope you guys solve all this soon because i'm not using my saw till i know how it works
[19:41:16] <furrywolf> lol
[19:41:31] <_methods> oh nm i'm done lol
[19:41:36] <zeeshan> SpeedEvil: that makes sense
[19:41:45] <zeeshan> the time duration of heat transfer is very little
[19:42:02] <zeeshan> but now compare this with a big ass 12" face mill cutter
[19:42:14] <zeeshan> i think i see it
[19:42:20] <zeeshan> in the face mill you have a LOT of teeth in contact
[19:42:23] <zeeshan> where as in a cold saw
[19:42:32] <zeeshan> not as much teeth in contact
[19:42:37] <zeeshan> i bet if you tried to cut thick s tuff with it
[19:42:47] <zeeshan> you'd see the cutting edges dull out quickly
[19:42:58] <SpeedEvil> This is also related to my idea for a planar thicknesser using a sawblade as a cutter
[19:43:11] <furrywolf> I've cut thick stuff. works fine. :P
[19:43:30] <SpeedEvil> weld it to a mandrell, apply it to the surface of the top of the work, with a chipper blade on top to rip off the waste
[19:43:42] <SpeedEvil> So you can cut a 12" slab with a 12" blde
[19:44:06] <furrywolf> of course, I'm sure there's an obvious factor... 1/2" steel probably lasts half as long ad 1/4" steel, just in terms of removing the same amount of metal.
[19:44:08] <zeeshan> im a visual person :)
[19:44:09] <zeeshan> draw it out
[19:44:30] <zeeshan> well i asked him for an academic paper
[19:44:31] <zeeshan> will read
[19:44:31] <SpeedEvil> -|#
[19:44:38] <zeeshan> i might be able to do my final presentation on this
[19:44:41] <SpeedEvil> part-way through the cut
[19:44:44] <zeeshan> ratehr than the current article assigned to me
[19:44:52] <zeeshan> "turbomachinery metal cutting processes"
[19:44:53] <zeeshan> lol
[19:44:55] <zeeshan> borin
[19:45:25] <furrywolf> note that every time you cut box, channel, etc, there's a period where you're cutting through the entire height of the piece at once
[19:46:14] <furrywolf> the 9" blade will cut up to 3" box in one pass... and when you first start and stop, you're doing that all at once, unlike the middle where you're just cutting through the wall thickness twice.
[19:46:18] <zeeshan> i guarantee you he'll send me a paper
[19:46:25] <zeeshan> that shows test results in a lab scenario
[19:46:30] <zeeshan> that'll just answer all these qs
[19:46:31] <zeeshan> :P
[19:47:01] <zeeshan> furrywolf: yea
[19:47:32] <furrywolf> found another test for their old-style blades (since superseeded by the "nxt" ones), says 13 cuts in 12" by 3/8" stainless steel.
[19:47:43] <furrywolf> so 13 feet in 3/8 stainless
[19:48:07] <zeeshan> well i can do a crap load more with a bimetal blade
[19:48:09] <furrywolf> not nearly as long as in 1/4 mild steel, but stainless isn't mild steel. :)
[19:48:11] <zeeshan> but thats only like 100 sfm
[19:49:07] <_methods> not if you kick the workpiece on an angle lol
[19:49:28] <_methods> obviously with a solid profile that won't work
[19:49:41] <_methods> at some point you'll be cutting a full cut
[19:49:47] <zeeshan> angle i cut like this:
[19:49:53] <zeeshan> ......... /\
[19:50:02] <zeeshan> _|
[19:50:03] <_methods> that's how you're supposed to bu tit
[19:50:04] <zeeshan> not like that
[19:50:09] <zeeshan> so itll survive :P
[19:50:15] <_methods> yes 2nd is wrong
[19:50:28] <_methods> you increase blade in cut
[19:50:47] <zeeshan> something about mininum of 2 teeth in contact
[19:50:56] <furrywolf> a test for angle says 2" by 2" by 1/4" angle is 400 cuts. so 1600", but that's at a worse cutting angle and also cutting the slightly thicker rounded bit at the corner, so about identical to the 1800" for straight cuts.
[19:51:22] <_methods> these saws are not ideal
[19:51:30] <_methods> they are just for git'r'done stuff
[19:51:42] <_methods> a real cold saw is the way to go
[19:51:49] <_methods> or bandsaw
[19:52:44] <_methods> and what i did on my bandsaw is as wrong as 2 boys fuckin in the vatican
[19:52:51] * furrywolf wonders how long their carbide-tipped bandsaw blades last. :P
[19:52:58] <zeeshan> furrywolf: i wanna know too
[19:52:59] <_methods> if makita saw what i just did they'd void my warranty instantly i'm sure
[19:53:01] <zeeshan> cause if theyve got something diff
[19:53:07] <zeeshan> maybe bandsaw blades can last longer
[19:53:12] <zeeshan> and cut some hard stuff
[19:53:17] <_methods> s/bandsaw/chopsaw
[19:53:18] <zeeshan> lol methods
[19:53:19] <furrywolf> I thought the vatican was always one boy and one priest? so, yeah, two boys would be a bit odd.
[19:53:21] <zeeshan> time to work
[19:54:53] <_methods> http://www.lenoxtools.com/pages/lenox-carbide-band-saw-blades.aspx
[19:54:57] <_methods> ask lennox lol
[19:56:28] <SpeedEvil> furrywolf: I was wondering about a related thing
[19:56:37] <SpeedEvil> On-line laser sharpening of bandsaw blades
[19:56:48] <SpeedEvil> While rotating
[19:57:01] <SpeedEvil> Alas, pulsed lasers aren't cheap
[19:57:33] <furrywolf> and teeth are shiny, and moving very quickly, and very thermally conductive, and need to stay cold.
[19:59:03] <SpeedEvil> They're not moving meaningfully by the standards of laser pulse I mean
[20:00:34] <furrywolf> they're moving meaningfully by the standards of being able to aim at a precise spot on them while spinning, vibrating, surrounded by flying chips... :P
[20:00:45] <SpeedEvil> Engineering details
[20:02:07] <furrywolf> bbl
[22:56:16] <Tom_itx> hah i figured out how to get my xp like menus back in win7
[23:43:20] <Computer_Barf> any of you guys milling wood? I have a g0704 but want to try making some coasters with compex patterns and trying to get and idea of what kinds of endmills I should get for that
