#linuxcnc | Logs for 2015-04-02

[00:24:14] <tjtr33> !later skunksleep tjtr33 pm'd you 02apr2015
[00:24:14] <the_wench> will tell skunksleep when he/she joins next
[00:27:12] <tjtr33> !later skunkworks tjtr33 pm'd you 02apr2015
[00:27:12] <the_wench> will tell skunkworks when he/she joins next
[00:30:45] <the_wench> skunkworks: tjtr33 said tjtr33 pm'd you 02apr2015
[00:33:09] <zeeshan> !later tjtr33 test
[00:33:09] <the_wench> will tell tjtr33 when he/she joins next
[00:33:15] <zeeshan> :-)
[00:33:19] <zeeshan> interesting
[00:55:14] <pingufan> Self-building a Pick & Place SMD machine... Somebody here who likes to talk about?
[00:57:27] <tiwake> I went to the machine tool expo in portland oregon
[00:57:29] <tiwake> today
[00:57:36] <tiwake> that was so much fun
[00:57:41] <pingufan> I watched the video of RedFrog machine. Interesting attempt. I currently try to decide between a LinuxCNC based and microcontroller based solution.
[00:58:13] <pingufan> What was the primary theme of this expo?
[00:58:35] <Cromaglious> I'm looking at down the road with a servo solution.. but until I win the lottery I'm stuck with parallel BOB and steppers
[00:59:57] <pingufan> Yes. What I could find out is: If te machine is small or mid-size, steppers have advantages compared to servos.
[01:01:10] <pingufan> What kind of machine do you have? lathe or mill?
[01:02:53] <Cromaglious> I have a 1945 Sheldon lathe I'm gonna CNC and add a Z axis to turn it into a long narrow router
[01:05:10] <pingufan> Whow! Do you want to mount the working piece on the Y-axis and move it this way in X/Y ?
[01:06:16] <Cromaglious> 2x12 about the centerline of the chuck and have the Z offset off the compound mount on the crossslide
[01:07:43] <Cromaglious> so I can cut stuff about 12" wide and about 36" long and about 4" deep
[01:09:30] <Cromaglious> I can then build rails for a bigger table. like a 60x60, then use the 60x60 to build a 72x128 (57x112 working)
[01:10:07] <pingufan> Well, it depends on what you want to produce. I bought a damaged "GravoGraph VX" engraving machine some years ago. The steppers were good, electronics was burned. But the mechanics is unbelievable. 65 kg of casted iron and 30mm thick round guides for the axis!
[01:10:42] <Cromaglious> I might make a temp Z to make a full size Z axis. which I can transfer from machine to machine
[01:11:09] <pingufan> I converted it into a little (but very precise) CNC mill by replacing the spindle. I can work 400x320x60 mm.
[01:12:14] <Cromaglious> I might take off my headstock to get more X like 48"x12"x12" (4" with temp Z)
[01:13:29] <Cromaglious> Z might actually be 16" down the road. since I want to do 4'x8'x12" slab of styrofoam
[01:13:34] <pingufan> Sounds good.
[01:16:13] <pingufan> I want to build a Pick and place machine for plasing electronic parts on a PCB by myself. Here I need speed and precision, but no high forces. I am unsure about what is better: Using LinuxCNC and complicated G-Code programs is one way, using a Microcontroller to generate the steps is the alternative.
[01:16:13] <Cromaglious> 4'x8'x6" is $80
[01:17:58] <pingufan> 4' is 4 feet? Approx 1320 mm ?
[01:18:04] <Cromaglious> hmm you can script linuxcnc to basically run like a micro controller.. setup a directory to grab files then execute them in order...
[01:18:08] <Cromaglious> yep
[01:18:20] <Cromaglious> 48*25.4
[01:18:40] <pingufan> Are you from USA ?
[01:19:09] <Cromaglious> 1219.2mm
[01:19:23] <Cromaglious> yep, Temecula, California, USA
[01:20:17] <Cromaglious> 1320mm is ~52 inches
[01:20:46] <Cromaglious> 51.96850
[01:21:00] <Cromaglious> /exec -o echo "scale=5;1320/25.4" | bc
[01:21:01] <pingufan> At my 50th birthday we did a travel along whole Route 66 from Chicago to L.A. It was so wonderful. I plan to repeat it and then stay at selected points a bit longer.
[01:21:25] <Cromaglious> I'm south of 66 by about 62 miles
[01:21:31] <Cromaglious> on I15
[01:22:58] <pingufan> What I was surprised about is: gas is so cheap in USA. I get a gallon for alost the same money what I pay for one LITER here!
[01:23:08] <Cromaglious> I've done route 66 from Saint Louis to LA, many parts on the actual Rt66
[01:24:01] <Cromaglious> To us it's expensive.. Though my old boss was paying $12USD gallon in Romania
[01:24:25] <Cromaglious> I remember paying $0.259 a gallon as a kid
[01:25:03] <Cromaglious> I remember paying $0.679 a gallon when I started driving
[01:25:23] <Cromaglious> and we thought that was expensive
[01:26:05] <Cromaglious> 12/64 is my borthday
[01:26:28] <Cromaglious> so I'm doing my 50th this year
[01:26:30] <pingufan> This is still nothing. 1 liter = 0.264 gallons. And we pay 1.18 EURO (approx. 1.50 USD) for it!
[01:27:24] <pingufan> More than 50% if this price is taxes.
[01:27:52] <pingufan> Anyway...
[01:28:13] <pingufan> Back to my project.
[01:28:29] <Cromaglious> I'm not sure on taxes.. I was paying $5.10 a gallon for diesel 5 years ago... I sold my truck because of it
[01:28:29] <toastydeath> we produce a shitload of oil, and we also refine the most gasoline out of anybody
[01:29:20] <pingufan> I think about using linear bearings and round rods as guides. Good idea?
[01:29:59] <toastydeath> actually, looking it up, we produce about 40 percent of the world's gasoline
[01:30:34] <pingufan> Where are you from?
[01:30:40] <toastydeath> usa, sorry.
[01:30:45] <toastydeath> (typical)
[01:31:03] <toastydeath> http://www.wolframalpha.com/input/?i=worldwide+total+gasoline+production
[01:31:05] <pingufan> I guessed now dubai & co.
[01:31:55] <toastydeath> nah, most of those countries produce oil but almost nobody has the refinery capacity for it
[01:32:08] <toastydeath> also the USA is #2 in the world for petrolium production overall
[01:32:21] <pingufan> Send me a barrel gasoline every month, please. :)
[01:32:28] <toastydeath> hahaha
[01:33:19] <pingufan> Use a wonderful red ribbon around it and declare it as a gift. (rofl)
[01:33:42] <toastydeath> the gasoline's free, the ribbon is 20 dollars
[01:33:51] <pingufan> Ok.
[01:34:39] <pingufan> Here every visit at a fuel pump costs me approx 130 USD. (converted from Euro)
[01:35:17] <toastydeath> yeah, it costs me about 25-30 euro
[01:35:36] <toastydeath> also, our infrastructure is such that the distances we travel are enormous
[01:35:47] <toastydeath> my morning commute is 1.5 hours long
[01:35:55] <pingufan> Chevrolet Trans Sport 3.4 liters http://automobilio.info/auto/Chevrolet-Trans-Sport-U.jpg
[01:36:19] <pingufan> Such one I have.
[01:36:47] <Cromaglious> 185 for 55 gallons at $3.35 gallon
[01:36:51] <pingufan> Here a lot of gas fits in.
[01:37:57] <Cromaglious> <-- 1995 honda Odyssey 2.2l I get 28mpg
[01:38:12] <pingufan> I remember 2.something 3-4 years ago.
[01:38:38] <pingufan> Did gas become so expensive meanwhile?
[01:39:07] <Cromaglious> I put 150 to 250 miles per week on it
[01:39:45] <pingufan> Oh this crazy units... let me convert...
[01:40:06] <Cromaglious> metric is french... use imperial!
[01:40:33] <pingufan> I am from Austria. We also have metric. China, too.
[01:41:36] <pingufan> Well, my sister in law drives the double milage every week.
[01:42:01] <pingufan> Therefore she drives a small Mazda Diesel.
[01:42:36] <pingufan> Can you tell me where to get for low money linear bearings?
[01:42:58] <Cromaglious> I had a 7.3l ford IDC diesel... I want a Diesel toyota pickup... I can find them in Canada, but not here
[01:43:19] <pingufan> If possible with metric diameters?
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[01:45:06] <pingufan> Oh, sorry!
[01:45:50] <pingufan> Didn't notice how long this link is.
[01:48:14] <Cromaglious> hehe that was the image in base 64
[01:48:56] <pingufan> Did you fiddle it together? I hope, not.
[01:49:15] <Cromaglious> nope thought about it
[01:49:47] <pingufan> I think I will buy them in China.
[01:51:03] <archivist> that is a long drive to save a few pennies
[01:52:12] <pingufan> Pennies? One linear bearing with 10mm inside diameter costs here 120 USD !!! The naked bearing without the inner rod or an external housing!
[01:56:41] <archivist> for what sort of machine
[01:57:12] <archivist> I dont like rod types for certain types of work
[01:57:52] <pingufan> A Pick and place machine for SMT. So everything has to be light weight, allowing faster moving.
[01:58:33] <pingufan> I have almost no force on it. It only has to be stiff enough to give precice moves.
[01:58:35] <archivist> rods are ok for that
[01:58:42] <pingufan> I know.
[02:00:00] <pingufan> How thick would you choose them for bridging 600 mm? Only fixed at the ends.
[02:01:57] <pingufan> The "bridge" is two rods along X-Axis and will be moved forward and backward in Y-direction. I tend to use two rods of 12 or 16 mm
[02:04:31] <Cromaglious> I'm running a 3040 and the X is 16mm and the Y is 20mm, Z is 12mm
[02:05:53] <archivist> there is the supported type too http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/linear-bearing-slide-SBR12-1000mm-2rails-4-blocks-for-CNC-/261072955417
[02:13:54] <pingufan> Whow, this is perfect!
[02:14:57] <pingufan> In this case I can also use thinner ones because they are mounted along their length
[02:16:55] <archivist> look for a seller with free postage
[02:19:35] <Deejay> moin
[02:19:39] <pingufan> Ok. This rails are good for Y-Axis. But for X-Axis I'd prefer to have round rods from left to right, mounted in end flanges. And this flanges are mounted on top of the linear bearing blocks.
[02:22:50] <pingufan> I want to keep weight of moving parts as low as possible
[02:24:03] <pingufan> 2x600 mm is approx 2 kg, this high.
[02:32:01] <pingufan> archivist: Do you have experiences with two ball bearings on a round rod? The bearins are in 8mm spacing on one shaft and act like a V-groove roller.
[02:33:04] <archivist> I have a microscope on v bearings
[02:33:05] <pingufan> This would give horizontal guidance and carry the (little) weight of the bridge.
[02:34:59] <pingufan> Yesterday I asked for prices here (Austria). Horrible. I want to use two simple radial bearings on a shaft with a distance holder in between. Not perfect, but cheap and reliably wirking. Your opinion?
[02:36:59] <archivist> look to right and behind microscope http://www.collection.archivist.info/archive/DJCPD/PD/2015/2015_01_08_Lorch_watch_lathe/IMG_1868.JPG
[02:37:03] <pingufan> One such set of two bearings gives one wheel. So I have then 8 bearings with 6mm inner diameter for the whole bridge.
[02:38:32] <pingufan> beyound the wooden plate? This rails?
[02:38:55] <archivist> this has the classic 3 contact lines http://www.collection.archivist.info/archive/DJCPD/PD/2013/2013_09_03_travelling_microscope/IMG_1658.JPG
[02:39:23] <archivist> the bearing is on the wood, the bar moves
[02:39:39] <archivist> there is an upper bearing too
[02:41:00] <pingufan> archivist, do you have Skype?
[02:41:06] <archivist> no
[02:44:12] <pingufan> My plan is to use two rails for the Y-Axis (from front to rear) on left and right side of the machine. This keeps the front free. On this rails the bridge has to move. To keep it parallel to the X-Axis, I will use two timing belts (one on each end), turned by a common drive shaft and one stepper.
[02:45:04] <pingufan> Here I have relatively short distances (400-500mm), so this is ok.
[02:48:02] <pingufan> I currently tend between two bearings running on top of the rods (on every end), plus two bearings contacting the left rod from left and right side (to guide the bridge along left rod). On right sige I only use upper bearings as rollers so the whole assembly cannot stick.
[02:49:05] <pingufan> All bearings are mounted to two CNC-milled flanges. The bridge is simply two rods inserted between the flanges.
[02:49:14] <pingufan> Your opinion?
[02:51:19] <pingufan> Along the bridge (X-Axis), a trolley is moving either with linear bearings, V-shaped bearings, or again such an assembly of standard bearings.
[02:51:26] <archivist> bridge on spindles(thin rods) is where I usually look away, but for light loads should be ok
[02:52:54] <pingufan> I would use two 12 mm stainless steel rods. Should be stiff enough for a length of 600 mm
[02:53:38] <archivist> how accurate do you want
[02:54:46] <pingufan> It has to carry only the weight of the trolley with the Z-Axis and the stepper for turning the vacuum nozzle. But this are very small steppers. The Z-AXIS I want to guide with two linear bearings as used in 3D printers. They are for 8mm rods.
[02:55:45] <pingufan> Well, total placement accuracy should be better than ±0.2 mm.
[02:56:11] <pingufan> So it is not really an extremely high precizion.
[02:57:36] <pingufan> The steppers I have are 1.8deg/step, and the drivers are able to do 1/16 microstepping. So from this side I am precisely enough.
[02:58:17] <archivist> the microsteps are not exact 16ths of the full step
[03:00:10] <archivist> http://www.micromo.com/microstepping-myths-and-realities
[03:00:24] <pingufan> Yes. But the pulley is 18mm dia, so it should be ok. The point is: Threads are much more precisely (of course), but end in slow motions.
[03:03:33] <pingufan> Whow. I didn't imagine that holding torque goes down so rapidely with number of microsteps. Then I will stay at 4 microsteps and perhaps a smaller gear for the timing belt.
[03:06:02] <pingufan> https://www.google.at/search?q=redfrog+pick+and+place+machine&biw=1283&bih=839&tbm=isch&tbo=u&source=univ&sa=X&ei=LvMcVa3DKcudsAHr44PYAg&ved=0CDEQsAQ#imgdii=_&imgrc=sHFfQcI-_VDRXM%253A%3BzaUJKX4j71hU9M%3Bhttp%253A%252F%252Fcdn.makezine.com%252Fuploads%252F2012%252F05%252Fimg_0118.jpg%253Fw%253D580%3Bhttp%253A%252F%252Fmakezine.com%252F2012%252F05%252F20%252Fdiy-pick-and-place%252F%3B600%3B450
[03:06:04] <archivist> that does not also include a typical steppers internal magnetic bias to whole steps which makes the microsteps non linear
[03:06:55] <pingufan> I watched this on youtube yesterday. Basically a really smart idea. But for my taste a little bit too much wood. :)
[03:08:19] <pingufan> So you would prefer threads?
[03:08:41] <MrSunshine> am i wrong in saying that in a 3 axis simultanious move it will never move faster than the slowest axis?
[03:08:44] <MrSunshine> same with accelerations
[03:08:56] <MrSunshine> as the other ones has to wait for the slowest one to get up to speed
[03:09:52] <pingufan> When using LinuxCNC as "driver", I will get a 3D move from starting point to end point. But this is not necessary.
[03:10:41] <archivist> g1 is fully coodinated to has to be within an axis limit
[03:10:48] <pingufan> It is also fine when all axes start at same time and each one stops when it reached its target position.
[03:12:36] <pingufan> I am really unsure if I generate the stepping pulses with LinuxCNC or a microcontroller. A strong PIC 18Fxxxx can easily do that. The most problem is accelerating and decelerating.
[03:13:58] <pingufan> But the PIC has the advantage that I can easier control 50 feeders for parts. The method of using the suction needle for moving the part-rails is not really good.
[03:14:24] <pingufan> It is cheapest (of course) but slower and can bend the tip.
[03:15:19] <archivist> use linuxcnc, PIC is just too much effort
[03:15:47] <pingufan> But this guy uses normal metal stripes as rails, and it works. So using a couple of round rods can only run smoother and with lower force.
[03:17:16] <pingufan> But how do I control then the feeders? Can I use "G codes" to send something out over a serial port ("command to feeder 4, advance 3 steps") and then wait for the confirmation?
[03:19:12] <pingufan> And I also have to do an initial inventory. I can insert upto 50 feeders in any place, and the machine has to identify them (to know where i.e. the 1k resistors are). And this - in turn - has effect on the G-Codes.
[03:19:41] <pingufan> I am not sure if this is so easy with linuxcnc.
[03:20:27] <archivist> I would always put stuff in the same places
[03:21:34] <pingufan> Difficult. One time You need some big parts, they block i.e. two slots. Then you need different values, so you have to swap some feeders. Etc.
[03:23:29] <pingufan> Well, linuxcnc would allow me to control vacuum as "coolant", etc. This is good. I also do not have to worry with generating the ramps of acceleration and deceleration. All this is ready done. But the link between the output ofd my Eagle-CAD and the PCB is not trivial.
[03:28:56] <pingufan> Doing that with a PIC is not much more complicated, I guess. But I have to think about that. First, the mechanics has to be built up.
[03:48:35] <pingufan> arvhivist, thank you very much for your help in brainstorming. :)
[03:53:35] <archivist> get off eagle, use kicad and add something to kicad for placement, I just googled this a bit out of date though https://rheingoldheavy.com/design-assembly-kicad/
[08:16:42] <whatsup> Is there a linuxcnc book or course?
[08:19:39] <cpresser> whatsup: inntegrators manual
[08:19:54] <whatsup> where do I find that?
[08:20:58] <_methods> http://www.linuxcnc.org/index.php/english/documentation
[08:21:39] <whatsup> Ok, I think I saw that. I will download it for reading
[09:09:51] <_methods> i ordered a fancy hacksaw yesterday
[09:09:53] <_methods> http://www.bahco.com/en/professional_hand_tools/hand_hacksaw_frame.html
[09:10:13] <_methods> i've always just used the cheapo hacksaw
[09:12:07] <malcom2073> Hmm, is it just more ergonomic and sturdier, so the blade is held more solid?
[09:17:10] <_methods> i have no idea lol
[09:17:17] <_methods> i just like sandvik/bahco stuff
[09:17:31] <_methods> and i needed blades for my old hacksaw
[09:17:31] <DaPeace> YES.. repaired a chinese stepper-driver… kinda coool :-D
[09:17:35] <DaPeace> hey guys btw
[09:17:43] <_methods> so i said screw the blades i'll just buy a new hacksaw
[09:18:28] <malcom2073> Heh
[09:21:28] <Rab> http://www.bahco.com/en/images/slides/897d35e8c48bb074d75331e2b44e1dcc.jpg
[09:21:34] <Rab> Kind of a weird corporate graphic.
[09:21:43] <malcom2073> It is
[09:22:02] <_methods> wrenchacopter
[09:23:57] <_methods> i think they make nice scrapers
[09:24:04] <_methods> for scraping ways and stuff
[09:25:44] <malcom2073> I need to scrape my lathe ways... I'm avoiding it
[09:26:16] <_methods> yeah i don't have time for all that
[09:26:25] <_methods> i'll just deal with my machine being out a little lol
[09:26:31] <malcom2073> Me neither, I just keep a hand on my gib adjust :P
[09:26:35] <Milosch> morning
[09:26:36] <_methods> yep
[09:26:52] <Milosch> hrm, wrong channel
[09:27:17] <malcom2073> Wonder what channel he was looking for
[09:27:19] <_methods> yeah i just play around on my minimill
[09:27:28] <_methods> if i need something really accurate i'll just do it at work
[09:27:40] <malcom2073> My lathe is from 1930, so I shouldn't expect miracles anyway
[09:27:49] <malcom2073> If I want accurate my dad has a 10ee heh
[09:27:53] <_methods> nice
[09:27:57] <_methods> my dream lathe
[09:28:00] <malcom2073> It's for sale :P
[09:28:10] <_methods> for my dream price?
[09:28:13] <malcom2073> Doubtful
[09:28:16] <_methods> hahah
[09:28:23] <malcom2073> Do you dream big?
[09:28:24] <_methods> why selling it?
[09:28:37] <malcom2073> He doesn't really need it, he has a benchtop CNC lathe that does everything he needs
[09:28:42] <malcom2073> and the 10ee is a beast, takes up a lot of space
[09:28:43] <_methods> yeah
[09:28:56] <_methods> that's why i have my little stuff
[09:29:03] <_methods> that damn space thing
[09:29:06] <malcom2073> yeah
[09:29:16] <malcom2073> I got tons of space now, but it's all dirt floored
[09:29:39] <_methods> hehe
[09:29:43] <_methods> cement is expensive
[09:29:52] <malcom2073> It is :/
[09:30:03] <malcom2073> I half debated a wood floor, but turns out that'd be just as expensive
[09:30:32] <_methods> yeah i don't know a cheap way to do it
[09:30:51] <malcom2073> Buddy of mine insists we can do it ourselves, it's 20x40ft polebarn, just doing it in 1/6th sections
[09:30:58] <malcom2073> I'm a bit scared of that though
[09:32:32] <_methods> yeah
[09:32:51] <_methods> i'm not sure how that would do either
[09:33:13] <_methods> i think a big pour like that you want all your concrete to be as similar in mix as possible
[09:33:35] <malcom2073> He meant like wood plank seperated sections, you ever seen that?
[09:33:39] <_methods> but i have no idea i'm not concrete guru
[09:33:49] <malcom2073> Like each square is its own thing, it's weird.
[09:33:58] <malcom2073> I'm working on convincing the wife to let me take out a home equity loan in a couple years so I can pay someone to do it
[09:34:05] <_methods> i can see them seperating and sinking at diff rates with machines on them
[09:34:16] <malcom2073> Yeah
[09:34:43] <malcom2073> Specially since I want to stick my mill out there.
[09:34:52] <malcom2073> haven't thought about how the hell I'll get it there yet.
[09:34:54] <_methods> i guess you could just pour individual pads for machines
[09:35:02] <malcom2073> That's not a terrible idea
[09:35:11] <_methods> then just tie them all togeter as you add machines
[09:35:19] <_methods> but i would imagine that could be a mess
[09:35:31] <malcom2073> metal shavings on dirt....
[09:35:31] <_methods> tryin to tie them all together and keep them level
[09:35:41] <malcom2073> they don't need to be THAT level to each other
[09:35:45] <_methods> yeah
[09:35:54] <_methods> well that would be the budget way to do it
[09:35:58] <malcom2073> True
[09:36:05] <_methods> just pour you nice 8" slabs for individual machines
[09:36:19] <malcom2073> I'm pouring a concrete pad for a generator here in a couple months... so that'll test my concrete finishing skills on a small scale
[09:37:34] <_methods> well that should be a good test
[09:37:58] <malcom2073> I will eventualyl need a larger pad though, its in my plans to build a 5x10 router.
[09:38:11] <malcom2073> So maybe best just to pay someone to do the whole thing in one shot heh
[09:56:28] <skunkworks_> The K&T has 3 ft of concrete under it.
[10:02:21] <archivist> and its groaning under the load :)
[10:10:02] <malcom2073> Heh
[10:10:45] <malcom2073> My mill is 1.5T, so it hsould probably be fairly well supported
[10:11:21] <archivist> as long as your shuttering is well supported, get a lorry to deliver in one load (hire a vibrating poker to consolidate)
[10:28:19] <ssi> super angry
[10:28:50] <_methods> what's up?
[10:29:07] <ssi> I think I need to fire my contractor
[10:29:23] <_methods> redoing your house?
[10:29:29] <ssi> yea
[10:29:30] <_methods> that's a nightmare
[10:29:36] <_methods> how far are they along?
[10:29:42] <ssi> they've done the roof
[10:29:42] <ssi> badly
[10:30:03] <_methods> is siding on?
[10:30:21] <_methods> did you get a framing inspection?
[10:32:20] <ssi> I doubt anything's been inspected
[10:32:29] <ssi> siding's not done
[10:32:35] <_methods> oh wow you didn't get an outside inspector on teh framing?
[10:32:50] <_methods> i'd stop them until that is done
[10:32:51] <ssi> well the only thing that got reframed is the roof framing in 1/4 of the house
[10:33:15] <_methods> i'd have a full framing inspection done
[10:33:28] <_methods> especially if they had to reframe stuff already
[10:33:44] <ssi> you want to come GC my house? :D
[10:33:52] <_methods> hah no lol
[10:34:14] <_methods> those guys are nightmare to work with
[10:34:38] <_methods> did you get a gc through an architect
[10:34:50] <ssi> ha
[10:35:00] <ssi> this isn't "I'm building a house cause houses are fun"
[10:35:05] <_methods> yeah
[10:35:09] <ssi> this is "I'm rebuilding my house after a fire because apparently that's a thing you're required to do"
[10:35:12] <_methods> how'd you find the GC?
[10:35:34] <ssi> he was recommended to me by one of the contents guys who I trusted at the time
[10:35:37] <ssi> but I don't any more
[10:35:40] <ssi> and now I don't trust anybody
[10:35:43] <ssi> because they're all scumbags
[10:35:45] <_methods> i'd definitely hit him with a framing inspection
[10:35:52] <_methods> is wiring in already?
[10:35:59] <_methods> plumbing?
[10:36:00] <ssi> and I'd rather just have insurance give me the money directly and I'll do it all my damn self
[10:36:05] <ssi> no, nothing is done except the roof
[10:36:08] <_methods> ah good
[10:36:14] <ssi> and they roofed over a hole in the decking
[10:36:17] <_methods> yeah make sure you hit him with a 3rd party inspector
[10:36:22] <ssi> that was my first clue that this might not go well
[10:36:22] <_methods> that will let him know you're serious
[10:36:48] <_methods> inspect at every step
[10:37:00] <_methods> framing inspection, electrical, plumbing
[10:37:31] <_methods> your inspector gets to be the dick then
[10:37:37] <_methods> and they have to comply
[10:39:31] <_methods> and you get to sit back and watch heheh
[10:52:58] <ssi> well I just fired them
[10:53:01] <ssi> so...
[10:53:02] <ssi> hahah
[10:54:02] <CaptHindsight> whats that Linux 3d modeling tool that sort of works? FreeCAD has trouble importing DWG
[10:55:22] <CaptHindsight> I don't want to design anything with it. I'm looking for something to recommend to others for a open viewer of IGES, STEP and DWG
[10:58:26] <CaptHindsight> ssi: I think the only thing I don't do myself now is mount and balance tires. And that's only because I haven't gotten around to getting a mounting machine yet
[10:59:04] <CaptHindsight> oh and lift anything over a few tons, I actually found a competent crane rental
[10:59:38] <ssi> CaptHindsight: I'd totally do this myself except for all the government intervention horseshit
[10:59:56] <Tom_itx> ssi what's wrong with roofing over gaping holes?
[11:00:04] <ssi> can't imagine
[11:00:28] <Tom_itx> don't let them bill the insurance for an unfinished job
[11:00:31] <CaptHindsight> forced to hire someone with the license that is far less competent than yourself
[11:00:32] <Tom_itx> or sub standard
[11:00:39] <ssi> CaptHindsight: exactly
[11:01:02] <ssi> Tom_itx: They got some money from ins already; I asked them to send me a full invoice of everything they've done so far
[11:01:09] <ssi> and I Told them I'm not paying for the roof unless it's fixed
[11:01:13] <zeeshan> CaptHindsight: you do your own alignm,ent too? :P
[11:01:16] <_methods> just a viewer?
[11:01:20] <ssi> zeeshan: alignment's easy
[11:01:23] <CaptHindsight> you end up having to be there to supervise them
[11:01:26] <zeeshan> i know its easy
[11:01:32] <zeeshan> but i dont have a fancy hawk eye machine
[11:01:36] <CaptHindsight> zeeshan: I do
[11:01:37] <zeeshan> i doubt you do either :)
[11:01:44] <ssi> I've aligned cars with a tape measure and chalk line :D
[11:01:47] <zeeshan> if youre using a
[11:01:48] <zeeshan> LOL
[11:01:51] <zeeshan> okay youre doing it wrong then
[11:01:55] <ssi> nah
[11:02:02] <_methods> i use 3dfile.io for a 3d model viewer for people
[11:02:05] <Tom_itx> you can get 'close' that way
[11:02:10] <zeeshan> you get close yes
[11:02:12] <_methods> no need to download anything either
[11:02:15] <zeeshan> but you'll still get owned on tire wear
[11:02:25] <zeeshan> and youll notice it on the track if you do track your car
[11:02:36] <zeeshan> its a lot better than no alignment :P
[11:02:44] <Tom_itx> i had a 4 wheel alignment done on mine recently
[11:03:10] <CaptHindsight> _methods: yeah, I design everything is NX, Creo, SW etc. People without tools just need a viewer
[11:03:12] <Tom_itx> the rear was what was really off
[11:03:19] <_methods> yeah 3dfile.io
[11:03:24] <_methods> works good for me
[11:03:34] <_methods> i can send the files to most people
[11:03:46] <_methods> some customers with very strict web policies still have problems at times though
[11:03:51] <_methods> for them i send 3d pdf's
[11:04:05] <zeeshan> what happened to good old detailed drawings? :)
[11:04:10] <zeeshan> people can't understand them?!?
[11:04:16] <Tom_itx> hardly
[11:04:34] <_methods> sometimes i just have to send customers progrss
[11:04:38] <Tom_itx> i've seen some rather poorly done drawings too
[11:04:43] <_methods> so they can approve project direction
[11:04:45] <archivist> new designers design un machinable crap
[11:04:53] <Tom_itx> dimensions referenced off strange points etc
[11:05:05] <zeeshan> a gd&t course is like 600 bux
[11:05:07] <CaptHindsight> http://www.3dfile.io/nV5OFv#file-1 it worked!
[11:05:08] <zeeshan> takes 6 weeks
[11:05:11] <Tom_itx> haveing to add a bunch of dimensions to get what you need...
[11:05:33] <_methods> yeah some large assemblies i have to convert my models to 3dxml
[11:05:42] <_methods> if try to do an assy and it hangs try that
[11:06:02] <_methods> it seems to convert 3dxml files more "happily"
[11:06:10] <_methods> assemblies at least
[11:06:25] <CaptHindsight> whats nice about NX is that it took a few minutes model that with all the built in tools
[11:07:06] <_methods> if you actually make an account there are a few more tools
[11:07:11] <_methods> and options
[11:08:45] <ju_emb> Hi, I have a knot in my head configuring a gantry machine and I need some of you give me the right input
[11:09:00] <ju_emb> what I have
[11:09:11] <ju_emb> a stepper setup
[11:09:35] <ju_emb> using stepconf to config the parallel port
[11:09:53] <ju_emb> then manually change the kins to gantry
[11:10:14] <CaptHindsight> ju_emb: post your config and HAL on pastebin
[11:10:35] <CaptHindsight> otherwise you'll be describing you setup in a short story :)
[11:10:35] <ju_emb> works fine, machine runs at good speed
[11:11:31] <Tom_itx> CaptHindsight, autocad had a cad cam product they were giving to hobbyists students and <100k companies but it required 64bit
[11:11:35] <ju_emb> CaptHindsight: wait a minute, i THINK is just a stupid thing
[11:11:52] <Tom_itx> i can't find the email now but i posted it a while back in the dev channel
[11:12:02] <ju_emb> scale in the generated files is set to 80 on the axis
[11:12:25] <ju_emb> with that machine runs on good speed but is not the scale I have
[11:12:42] <ju_emb> my machine has 2.9 steps per machine unit
[11:13:03] <ju_emb> if I set scale to 2.9 machine runs sllloooow
[11:15:04] <ju_emb> isn't all velocities in machine units per minute or second? so scale shouldn't affect that
[11:15:12] <ju_emb> that's the knot in my head
[11:19:10] <archivist> never mind the speed is the distance move right
[11:19:16] <archivist> moved
[11:19:21] <ju_emb> http://pastebin.com/eqzA4MHm
[11:25:53] <archivist> ju_emb, dont forget the max velocity to match
[11:28:24] <ju_emb> that's my point, asn't all velosities in machine units per sec or min?
[11:28:41] <ssi> _methods: I have a friend who's a builder up in detroit, and he's quite good... he helped me redo the back of my house a couple years ago
[11:28:55] <ssi> he's not licensed in GA, but I'm thinking maybe I can GC my own home, and he can manage it for me
[11:29:09] <ssi> importantly, I TRUST him
[11:33:15] <archivist> ju_emb, the measured distance tells you if your scale is right, then you can adjust the speed to a velocity the machine can handle less a safety margin
[11:37:04] <ju_emb> does that mean, now thatmy distance travel is ok i should play with [AXIS_0] MAX_VELOCITY
[11:38:09] <archivist> yes
[11:38:28] <ju_emb> for [AXIS_0] [AXIS_3] always the same value (that are my gantry joints)
[11:39:19] <ju_emb> ok, I'll give that a try
[12:00:08] <ju_emb> No, doesn't seem to be the right way
[12:00:49] <_methods> ssi: i'd rather have him do it than a southern contractor
[12:01:03] <ju_emb> increasing velocities gives following errors
[12:01:08] <_methods> the houses down here are not built anywhere near as well as up north
[12:01:19] <_methods> you can get away with doing anything down here
[12:01:40] <_methods> stick built slab tracks with sub standard insulation
[12:02:00] <dirty_d> man, whyd i have to stumble upon a post about someone asking about special relativity
[12:02:11] <dirty_d> my minds going down a path i wasnt prepared for today, lol
[12:03:03] <ju_emb> and for me, i don't get it. if velocities are set to machine units per time, how comes in the scale?
[12:03:53] <ju_emb> if I have a machine that needs only 2.9 steps per machine unit instead of 80, machine should run faster
[12:15:09] <bobo_> methods: houses built (Ohio ) since 1970s are a crap shoot ,as far as quality . I have wondered what , in USA not europe , would be a good benchmark ?
[12:24:41] <Loetmichel> bobo_: us? isnt that the country that builds hosues of matchsticks and cardboard?
[12:24:48] <Loetmichel> SNCR ;-)
[12:26:36] <Rab> Live in USA, can confirm.
[12:28:35] * Loetmichel had to put a bit of 230V wire in a wall at mothers home...
[12:29:02] <Loetmichel> ... too me 4 hrs to do about 2 meters of slot in the wall for the 12mm wire...
[12:29:18] <Loetmichel> the concrete has so much cement in int that it shimmers blue...
[12:29:39] <Loetmichel> had to regrind the tip of the jackhammer chisel 2 times ;-)
[12:30:18] <Rab> Asphalt saw maybe perform better?
[12:31:44] <bobo_> Loetmichel : yes and many homes are of used matchsticks and cardboard . the homes here ,mostly , are not even close to what you have
[12:32:45] <Loetmichel> Rab: yes, but not in a room that has furniture in it
[12:32:50] <Loetmichel> WAF ;-)
[12:33:27] <Loetmichel> bobo_: tbh: 16 stories "skyscraper"
[12:33:42] <Loetmichel> made of concrete, not steel for load bearing
[12:33:57] <Loetmichel> so the walls at ground level are 45cm thick
[12:34:03] <Loetmichel> and hard as FU**
[12:34:22] <Rab> I visited a residential construction in Hungary and it was astonishing to my sensibility. 30cm thick walls, multiple layers of masonry, highly insulated, obviously meant to last 300 years if it lasted a day.
[12:35:12] <Rab> Here it's pine 2x4, drywall on the inside, OSB + siding on the outside.
[12:35:33] <Rab> No insulation on most older houses.
[12:35:48] <Loetmichel> Rab: and you wonder why you have so much insurance claims every year in "tornado alley"?
[12:36:37] <_methods> pacific northwest and coastal alaska
[12:36:48] <_methods> if you build a pos house there it WILL blow away
[12:37:03] <Loetmichel> a german building would withstand a "normal" tornado without ANY harm done... some have even stainless steel rolling blinds on the outside so flying debris isnt a big problem
[12:37:12] <Rab> _methods, yeah, I assume north is different. I live in Texas.
[12:37:31] <_methods> we had metal siding in alaska lol
[12:37:43] <renesis> north = doors on roofs wtf
[12:38:05] <Loetmichel> renesis: for when tehre is a "bit" more snow thatn anticipated?
[12:38:49] <Loetmichel> Rab: whe had a few mini tornados here in germany last year
[12:39:22] <renesis> loetmichel: i grew up in souther california so weather that can kill you if you lock yourself outside is mind blowing
[12:39:44] <Loetmichel> and since the government has changed code: ceramic roof tiles have now to be screwed in place with clamps rather than nailed down every fith or so
[12:39:51] <_methods> heh in the northwest i kept all kinds of emergency gear in my car
[12:40:03] <_methods> here i keep an extra pair of sunglasses and flip flops
[12:40:04] <renesis> weird @ tile clamps
[12:40:19] <renesis> i have hiking shoes and beach chairs in my car
[12:40:45] <Loetmichel> renesis: because the flying roof tiles had damaged some other property
[12:40:48] <Loetmichel> (mostly cars)
[12:40:56] <renesis> heh
[12:41:00] <renesis> ouch
[12:41:21] <Loetmichel> we talk about 5kg of ceramics here, not some small tiles
[12:41:25] <Loetmichel> each one
[12:41:44] <Rab> renesis, I guess that's why people pay $400 for a chance to die of exposure on the Playa.
[12:42:31] <Loetmichel> http://www.dachdecker-hh.de/BRAAS_Frankfurter_Pfanne_48.html <- these are pretty much standard on german small houses
[12:43:36] <bobo_> So how many of those roof tiles could be reused , vers they were broken
[12:43:40] <Rab> Loetmichel, nice stuff! What's the expected lifetime?
[12:43:50] <_methods> forever lol
[12:43:50] <Loetmichel> at least 100 years
[12:44:10] <Loetmichel> some are around here from the 1600s
[12:44:18] <Loetmichel> and still in good condition
[12:44:47] <Loetmichel> bobo_; the ones that gone flying: no idea, i suppose they werent found
[12:45:29] <Loetmichel> the problem is: underneath that ties there is NO roof
[12:46:16] <Loetmichel> just oak or pine 1"*2" and 2"*4"
[12:46:46] <Loetmichel> http://www.google.de/imgres?imgurl=http%3A%2F%2Fupload.wikimedia.org%2Fwikipedia%2Fcommons%2Fe%2Fe4%2FHarzer_Pfanne_auf_Dachlattung.JPG&imgrefurl=http%3A%2F%2Fde.wikipedia.org%2Fwiki%2FDachziegel&h=1575&w=1920&tbnid=kK-eN3VXPKpGZM%3A&zoom=1&docid=9uNH98RxUDAkVM&ei=X3sdVejUNsX3UqjtgqAI&tbm=isch&iact=rc&uact=3&dur=616&page=4&start=158&ndsp=60&ved=0CKACEK0DMF44ZA
[12:46:50] <Loetmichel> grr
[12:47:09] <Loetmichel> sorry
[12:47:10] <Loetmichel> http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/e/e4/Harzer_Pfanne_auf_Dachlattung.JPG
[12:47:24] <archivist> lots of welsh slate got exported to EU and I bet is still around
[12:47:31] <Loetmichel> thats how a german roof looks underneath the tiles
[12:47:54] <renesis> that prob works really well in the summer
[12:48:01] <Loetmichel> the blue fpil is a steam barrier
[12:48:05] <Loetmichel> foil
[12:48:27] <Loetmichel> and underneath the barrier is either nothing or a heat insulation
[12:49:03] <Loetmichel> s/steam/vapor
[12:49:06] <_methods> housing construction techniques are very regional in the US
[12:49:25] <_methods> much like europe
[12:49:37] <_methods> you probably wouldn't want an italian building your house in germany
[12:49:39] <_methods> or anywher
[12:49:42] <_methods> lol
[12:50:25] <Loetmichel> i wouldnt want an italian do ANYTHING but cooking ;-)
[12:50:30] <_methods> right
[12:50:45] <Loetmichel> the "proverbial" italian is not a good mechanic or handyman
[12:50:47] <renesis> excellent automotive engineers
[12:50:52] <_methods> not
[12:50:57] <_methods> fiat..........
[12:51:02] <renesis> more F1 wins than anyone else
[12:51:33] <renesis> they stole that title from the brits like 10 years ago
[12:51:39] <Loetmichel> ahem...
[12:51:41] <_methods> they can have it
[12:51:55] <_methods> still wouldn't buy anything but a pizza made in italy
[12:51:56] <Loetmichel> with a german in the cocpit ;-)
[12:52:10] <renesis> fuckin hated that guy
[12:52:20] <Loetmichel> he is still there
[12:52:31] <_methods> they do make some nice glass on murano though lol
[12:52:32] <Loetmichel> but on his way from vegetable back into life
[12:52:32] <ssi> Loetmichel: germans in the cockpit is a sensitive topic right now ;)
[12:52:32] <renesis> i dont hate him as much anymore
[12:52:42] <_methods> buwhahahhahaha
[12:52:43] <bobo_> as I think of housing construction techniques in US ------ mostly done to only stand untill the mortage is 80% paid
[12:52:45] <_methods> too soon?
[12:52:47] <Loetmichel> ssi: F1 car, not plane
[12:52:54] <ssi> still
[12:53:01] <_methods> most german plane kills since ww1
[12:53:01] <renesis> ?
[12:53:07] <renesis> what does vettel have to do with planes
[12:53:30] <Loetmichel> renesis. i talked schumacher
[12:53:55] <Loetmichel> and the planes: a german airplane just crahsed in the alps last week
[12:54:05] <renesis> oh i thought he meant vettel
[12:54:12] <renesis> already forgot about the plane thing
[12:54:12] <ssi> this is what happens larry, when you fly an airbus in the alps
[12:54:19] <bobo_> pizza made in italy------- sucks . been there barfed that
[12:54:20] <renesis> that happened before malaysian grand prix
[12:54:24] <Loetmichel> seems the copilot had decided to suicide and take the rest of the passengers with him
[12:54:32] <_methods> yeah italians can't get much right
[12:54:43] <renesis> italians are best at food
[12:54:44] <_methods> they need the romans to come back and whip them into shape
[12:54:50] <renesis> which pretty much makes them best at life
[12:55:06] <_methods> i'm sure the french would argue that one
[12:55:11] <renesis> who the fuck goes to german resteraunts unless its for the beer on tap?
[12:55:12] <Loetmichel> _methods: "friends, citizens, countrymen!"
[12:55:22] <_methods> strength and honor lol
[12:55:41] <Loetmichel> renesis: oh i like the german kitchen
[12:55:52] <Loetmichel> but usually my wife cooks for me
[12:55:57] <Loetmichel> not a restaurant guy
[12:56:05] <_methods> dampfnudel
[12:56:08] <_methods> mmmmmm
[12:56:13] <_methods> i love that stuff
[12:56:23] <Loetmichel> thinks like these: http://www.cyrom.org/palbum/main.php?g2_itemId=13814
[12:56:44] <_methods> taht looks gud
[12:56:56] <Loetmichel> pork roast, dumplings, red cabbage
[12:57:35] <Loetmichel> or some steaks fro breakfast ;-) -> http://www.cyrom.org/palbum/main.php?g2_itemId=8220&g2_imageViewsIndex=1
[13:02:36] <bobo_> methods look at what he has for breakfast ---- all I get is a crapy Waffel House thing
[13:03:12] <_methods> haha
[13:03:15] <_methods> all i get is what i make
[13:06:04] <XXCoder1> whats with crystal growing that seem to attact crazy people
[13:06:36] <XXCoder1> I just watched video of amazing crystal growing, and there is all kinds of cracked comments about comsic energy or something lol
[13:07:48] <bobo_> what kind of crystal ? diamond ?
[13:09:56] <XXCoder1> lol
[13:10:04] <XXCoder1> no alum possimium
[13:10:11] <XXCoder1> fairly frigile but nice looking
[13:13:54] <SpeedEvil> Skull crucibles are cool.
[14:19:22] <Rab> <_methods> most german plane kills since ww1
[14:19:27] <Rab> That is really tasteless.
[14:19:37] <Rab> Reminds me of this joke: http://media.moddb.com/images/groups/1/12/11312/polish_remover.jpg
[14:21:31] <_methods> hahah
[14:21:50] <_methods> touche
[14:44:25] <ssi> hah nice
[14:45:40] <The_Eel> Hi
[14:45:48] <_methods> silicon valley jerkoff equation
[14:45:52] <_methods> ooops
[14:45:57] <_methods> wrong room
[14:46:18] <The_Eel> Is 500mw 808 nm better or 200mw 405nm (for cutting plexiglass) ?
[14:48:18] <ssi> _methods: middle out?
[14:48:35] <_methods> hahaha
[14:48:57] <_methods> buddy of mine is finally watching the series
[14:49:33] <_methods> i thought the show was awesome until i watched that episode
[14:49:37] <_methods> then it moved to epic
[14:50:35] <ssi> yeah
[14:50:38] <ssi> I'm looking forward to the new season
[14:50:43] <_methods> yeah man
[14:50:50] <_methods> it's got a lot to live up to lol
[14:50:55] <ssi> yuuuup
[14:52:09] <Praesmeodymium> The_Eel: 500mw 808 will be better but both are gonna suck
[14:52:30] <_methods> you can cut plexi with 500mw?
[14:52:45] <Praesmeodymium> plexi us pretty clear to 405 so its just not going to work
[14:52:45] <_methods> plexi tape lol
[14:58:16] <The_Eel> Praesmeodymium: thanks
[14:59:06] <The_Eel> I'll be using lowest thickness and speed doesnt matter ... price matters to me :D
[15:00:47] <_methods> can you even cut plexi with that though?
[15:00:50] <_methods> i thought maybe paper
[15:04:58] <Praesmeodymium> well if you can get the spot small enough to get the temp past whatever acrylic will ablate offf, and if that happens then you can saw through it eventually, although some kind of air assist even for that small will relly improve cut qulaity, as long as it doesnt over cool the cut itself
[15:05:32] <Praesmeodymium> small aquarium pump, I use a large on on my 40w made a huge difference
[15:06:55] <_methods> well i have no idea was just wondering i don't have much experience with those tiny lasers
[15:06:59] <_methods> i need to make one
[15:07:06] <_methods> little 80w
[15:09:18] <Praesmeodymium> yeah tiny china blue box, every time I open it up I think I need to expand it a little, and 10 minutes later I find myself in front of the cad software working on a completely from scratch laser cutter design lol, just easier to build than to modify that cheap thing
[15:09:51] <_methods> yeah
[15:10:11] <_methods> i think i want to make one that will just lay on top of my plasma table when i build that
[15:10:30] <_methods> basically just use the table from the plasma and have a laser attachment on it lol
[15:10:53] <_methods> i don't have the room for plasma and a separate laser
[15:16:15] <Praesmeodymium> I find a co2 alignment is pretty delicate, there are ofc fiber lasers, and some high powered diodes that you could focus
[15:23:28] <Cromaglious> hmm so I should add air assist to the K40 at creatorspace.us?
[15:24:26] <_methods> i would
[15:24:34] <_methods> keeps the smoke from coming back up at the lens
[15:24:47] <_methods> make your lens last longer too
[15:32:06] <Praesmeodymium> stops charring and flame ups on woods and the heat affected area of acrylics is reduced
[15:32:58] <Praesmeodymium> I use one of these, not this link but that model is everywhere
[15:33:12] <Praesmeodymium> https://www.1000bulbs.com/product/95286/GROW-AAPA45L.html?utm_source=SmartFeedGoogleBase&utm_medium=Shopping&utm_term=GROW-AAPA45L&utm_content=Air+Pumps&utm_campaign=SmartFeedGoogleBaseShopping&gclid=Cj0KEQjw0fOoBRDn88Pol8bqhN0BEiQARGVJKgBQI0-5osVqSA23BUJbK94Cs9gGORMLa_MQZJdv04YaAsPy8P8HAQ
[15:33:24] <Praesmeodymium> eww what alink
[15:34:38] <Jymmm> any hydroponics store will have a variety of them.
[15:35:02] <Jymmm> 20W is kinda low volume
[15:35:06] <Praesmeodymium> and I mounted mine in a sling inside the k40 electronics case, its pretty quiet
[15:35:27] <Praesmeodymium> not for the k40 unless you are adding mirror shielding too
[15:36:21] <Praesmeodymium> http://i.imgur.com/0VC2Ts5.jpg
[15:36:54] <Jymmm> It's not just blowing smoke/vapor out of the way, but blowing liquidfied/charred material thru or from within the cut
[15:38:01] <_methods> i like that pic you sent me of you Jymmm
[15:38:03] <_methods> http://uploads.neatorama.com/images/posts/698/80/80698/1427925995-0.jpg
[15:38:33] <Jymmm> _methods: That was the pic I took of you, Ithought you wanted it?
[15:38:40] <_methods> hahah
[15:39:15] <_methods> i need to add that to my 3d printer xmen guy
[15:41:35] <Jymmm> _methods: You do realize that piece of paper I had you sign was a model release, right?
[15:42:13] <_methods> hah
[15:42:18] <_methods> yeah now i want my check
[15:42:41] <Jymmm> _methods: And buyinhg you a costco $1.25 1/4lb hotdog and soda was fair compensation, cause well, you are just that ugly.
[15:42:50] <_methods> LOL
[15:43:12] <_methods> you still owe me a dirty muffin
[15:43:34] <Jymmm> _methods: You musta missed the "royalty free" portion of the model release.
[15:44:15] <Jymmm> _methods: Hey, I handed you the muffin I dropped, you refused. Not my fault.
[15:45:50] <_methods> lies
[15:46:04] <_methods> except the ugly part
[15:47:38] * furrywolf sits down, takes note of the intelligence of the current conversation, and wanders back off
[15:48:31] <Jymmm> _methods: What you do with your compensation is up to you. You leave it for the wildlife is your choice.
[15:49:02] <Jymmm> So, how much does a 3.5lb package of bacon actually weight?
[15:49:31] <_methods> in a vacuum?
[15:49:44] <Jymmm> Out of a frying pan actually.
[15:50:31] <Jymmm> I cook the entire package at a time, then freeze it.
[15:50:47] <Lowridah> depends on if you're tricky and you render the fat out before you cook it
[15:50:51] <Jymmm> Takes just seconds when you want BLT, bacon and eggs, etc..
[15:51:18] <Jymmm> Lowridah: I save the bacon grease for cooking beans, greens, etc.
[15:51:47] <Lowridah> i give it to my dog in his meals
[15:52:03] <Lowridah> but when i cook bacon i cover it in water and slowly render as much fat out as possible
[15:52:12] <Lowridah> ends up crispier and less fatty
[15:52:13] <Jymmm> suated spinch in bacon grease with cruched garlic = love
[15:52:36] <Jymmm> just need half tsp for a huge bunch too
[15:52:55] <Jymmm> pinch of pepper flake
[15:53:37] <FinboySlick> Jymmm: Bacon grease is the drink of champions.
[15:53:43] <Jymmm> Do course chop the spianch though, makes a world of differnce.
[15:53:48] <FinboySlick> Though you have to do so while it's still hot.
[15:54:00] <Jymmm> FinboySlick: Bacon Martini
[15:54:07] <Jymmm> FinboySlick: Bacon Ice Cream
[15:54:53] <malcom2073> Lol furrywolf
[15:55:44] <FinboySlick> I've never had martini, bacon or otherwise.
[16:01:20] <Jymmm> neither have I
[16:07:02] <Lowridah> it's ok, i've had all the maritinis you didn't
[16:43:50] <Deejay> gn8
[16:46:46] <Jymmm> 3.5LB of cooked bacon looks/feeling like 1lb pkg of bacon
[16:47:15] <Cromaglious> then you end up with 2#'s of bacon grease mmmmmmmmm
[16:47:35] <Cromaglious> 1/2# of water probably evaporated
[16:48:33] <Jymmm> Cromaglious: Actualyl about 1 cup. I topped of the bacon grease contaner in the fridge and have to throw away about 1/2cup still
[16:49:19] <Jymmm> and by throw away, I mean pour on weeds =)
[16:49:30] <Jymmm> "it's organic" =)
[16:49:58] <Jymmm> "not a petrolium byproduct", "all natural"
[16:50:52] <Jymmm> lasts abut 18 months before needing to be reapplied.
[16:51:02] <Jymmm> waterproof =)
[16:52:07] <CaptHindsight> are these organic gardening tips?
[16:52:28] <Jymmm> CaptHindsight: Ghetto gardening tips
[16:53:35] <CaptHindsight> Lifehacks
[17:02:48] <Jymmm> I'm sure any 3rd world starving country would happily take any surplus we had instead of it being destroyed.
[17:02:59] <roycroft> the concept that we can grow the population of humans exponentially ad infinitum is much more ridiculous
[17:03:11] <Lowridah> roycroft agreed
[17:03:14] <drspastic> Hi. I just ran linuxcnc live for the first time and I'm confused. Will it not drive a USB connected CNC?
[17:03:37] <Jymmm> drspastic: no
[17:03:40] <roycroft> usb is a pretty sucky interface
[17:03:42] <roycroft> it's slow and latent
[17:04:02] <roycroft> you can't mention "real time" and "usb" in the same book reasonably
[17:04:05] <drspastic> Drat. That's all I have
[17:04:24] <Jymmm> drspastic: try the other thing based off of linuxcnc
[17:04:39] <Jymmm> machinekit or something liek that
[17:04:39] <CaptHindsight> the only USB version is that one by the Taiwanese robo something co
[17:04:43] <drspastic> Its a little laser engraver from CDROM drives btw
[17:05:09] <Jymmm> drspastic: http://www.machinekit.io/
[17:05:18] <drspastic> Thanks
[17:05:23] <CaptHindsight> http://en.araisrobo.com/ but is a fork
[17:06:05] <CaptHindsight> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9gM9XVEUo7k&feature=youtu.be
[17:06:18] <CaptHindsight> Drill and Rigid Tapping with LinuxCNC and USB/FPGA motion controller
[17:06:27] <Jymmm> drspastic: I know NOTHIGN of it... http://blog.machinekit.io/p/machinekit_16.html
[17:06:57] <drspastic> Great. I will check them out. Glad I asked before wasting time
[17:08:39] <CaptHindsight> google search: linuxcnc hamster wheel. The 4th result http://www.frequency.com/video/linuxcnc-on-raspberry-pi/83962947
[17:46:01] <macnewbie> hello, I am trying to install LCNC 2.5 on a 2nd HDD on an UEFI machine that already has Win8 on the main HDD. The installation is failing when trying to install GRUB. Can what I am trying to do be done?
[18:02:30] <Tom_itx> macnewbie you should be able to dual boot
[18:05:30] <macnewbie> Thanks Tom_itx - I don’t know much about linux, but doesn’t a UEFI require grub2? is there a precompiled distribution w/grub2? mind you, my real controller is a standalone machine in my garage, the only reason I am trying to do this is to work on a driver for my pendant at my desk rather than be forced to sit out there.
[18:06:05] <Tom_itx> no linux guru here
[18:06:32] <Tom_itx> yeah i keep a spare pc just for that
[18:06:46] <Tom_itx> they're pretty cheap anymore
[18:07:15] <Tom_itx> cheaper than the headaches you'll go thru with windows 8
[18:09:25] <Tom_itx> http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813157565&cm_re=asrock_j1900-_-13-157-565-_-Product
[18:29:00] <Lowridah> most modern linux distros support efi ootb
[18:30:11] <georgenz> Is anyone here familiar with the wj200 vfd? I have an 11kW unit, it constantly trips an over voltage error on decel, also makes an awful squeel at lower speeds (below 1000 rpm) I have been through all the menus as far as I can figure, attached a braking resistor. But still no luck
[18:31:40] <furrywolf> awful squeel is probably normal... check docs for braking resistor setup?
[18:37:29] <macnewbie> Lowridah, is there a reason why lcnc2.5 running on ubuntu 10.04 would not?
[18:52:39] <LeelooMinai> Need reality check for ghetto solar power setup
[18:54:15] <LeelooMinai> You think this would work? Solar panels (36V) -> diode -> (node 1) <- diode <- 12V PSU <- mains, then node 1 -> inverter -> some appliances like PCs
[18:55:58] <LeelooMinai> My thinking is that would use solar power if available, but fallback to mains otherwise
[18:56:10] <LeelooMinai> And would not require batteries nor grid-tie
[18:56:24] <furrywolf> no
[18:56:52] <furrywolf> the solar panels will raise the voltage to where the inverter and power supply are damaged
[18:57:07] <ssi> I dunno about that
[18:57:22] <ssi> solar panels must have a high output impedance
[18:57:36] <furrywolf> plus, running solar panels at low voltage just throws away power - if you have a 36v nominal solar source being dragged down to 12v nominal, you're throwing 2/3rds of your power away.
[18:57:44] <LeelooMinai> furrywolf: Hm? But it goes into inverter that is supposed with, say some voltage, up to 100V (for example)
[18:57:50] <furrywolf> ssi: solar panels are very close to constant-current devices with a voltage limit
[18:58:25] <ssi> but the output current is fairly low for small panels, especially as compared to a 12V psu
[18:58:39] <ssi> so the psu is just going to drag the cell down to 12v
[18:58:45] <LeelooMinai> O, I think, I forgot some DC/DC converter there, it was supposed to go before converter, sorry
[18:59:09] <furrywolf> ssi: most psus don't contain internal dump loads, and will not lower a higher output voltage other than through bleeder resistors.
[18:59:11] <LeelooMinai> So node 1 -> DC/DC (to 12v) then -> inverter
[18:59:37] <furrywolf> you'd want the dc/dc between the panels are "node 1".
[18:59:48] <furrywolf> better known as a mppt charge controller.
[19:00:00] <furrywolf> s/are/and
[19:00:22] <LeelooMinai> Yes, but I need to tie mains PSU there too, so when the panels are off, the DC/DC is powered from mains/psu
[19:00:53] <LeelooMinai> Not sure if I can do that with those mppts as they may think the output is a battery?
[19:00:58] <furrywolf> why do you need a dcdc between the psu and the inverter? the psu puts out the inverter's input voltage.
[19:01:40] <furrywolf> also, note that such double-conversion setups tend, at best, to be less than 80% efficient. is this scheme going to save you enough money to throw 20% of your mains power away as heat?
[19:02:03] <renesis> what if its cold?
[19:02:13] <LeelooMinai> Well I think putting power into batteries would waste 30% of energy too, no?
[19:02:39] <ssi> renesis: it's always cold in canadia
[19:02:48] <LeelooMinai> I think I saw such figure somewhere
[19:03:14] <furrywolf> the solution is to convert power as few times as possible.
[19:03:15] <renesis> if you are cold, system is 100% efficient
[19:03:45] <LeelooMinai> furrywolf: I realize that, but I cannot afford the expensive way of doing this.
[19:03:59] <furrywolf> my vote is still a $70 chinese grid-tie inverter and not telling anyone.
[19:04:28] <LeelooMinai> furrywolf: Risky bussiness:)
[19:04:43] <renesis> yes because attaching china to local mains power illegal is always a good solution
[19:04:56] <renesis> ^y
[19:05:01] <renesis> so close
[19:05:12] <furrywolf> or, as someone suggested, a modified UPS. put a simple voltage switch on it... when voltage reaches full charge, cut the mains so it runs off solar and batteries, when voltage reaches half charged, switch back to mains.
[19:05:31] <renesis> heh
[19:06:01] <furrywolf> you can disable the onboard charger with a manual switch if you want, so it never charges off mains unless you want it to
[19:07:03] <LeelooMinai> Woudn't that kill the battery relatively fast?
[19:07:21] <LeelooMinai> It would probably cycle all the time
[19:07:24] <renesis> depends how much they spent on the batteries
[19:07:28] <furrywolf> not if you don't cycle it too deeply
[19:07:53] <LeelooMinai> I know that car batteries are designed for short bursts that do not deplete them much
[19:08:40] <LeelooMinai> But I don't have a sense of how many cycles they can take if you would deplete them, I don't know, say to 80% 500 times.
[19:08:52] <renesis> you could just automate to charge at 80%
[19:09:25] <LeelooMinai> Hmm, I guess I should look insde those UPSes I have in the basement
[19:09:38] <renesis> in terms of power use, switching more so you dont go as low in voltage probably isnt detrimental
[19:09:41] <LeelooMinai> ONe is damaged one not, but it's small pwoer
[19:09:48] <Tom_itx> deep cycle marine batteries
[19:09:56] <LeelooMinai> Those are expensive probably
[19:10:14] <renesis> tom_itx: consumer ups is prob the cheapest lead batteries they can get
[19:10:46] <Tom_itx> yeah probably so
[19:10:57] <furrywolf> depends on brand/model line. APC uses quite nice ones in its rackmount units.
[19:11:15] <furrywolf> I have some I pulled from an apc rackmount in 2003 that I still cycle every couple weeks...
[19:11:23] <furrywolf> (and they were used then!)
[19:11:44] <LeelooMinai> So, let me see, what I would need... Some kind of battery monitoring with a switch that can shut down input into UPS and disabling the annoying beep?
[19:12:09] <furrywolf> disabling the annoying beep is done by desoldering the beeper.
[19:12:09] <renesis> can disable beep with some wire cutters
[19:12:12] <LeelooMinai> And the other thing, bypassing internal charging circuit?
[19:12:34] <furrywolf> put a switch somewhere. :)
[19:12:38] <LeelooMinai> Because I don't think I want UPS to charge the batteries...
[19:12:58] <furrywolf> I'll let you figure out where somewhere is, looking at your own ups'es board.
[19:13:00] <LeelooMinai> I only wonder if the UPS will not scream that something is wrong and it cannot charge the batteries...
[19:13:21] <furrywolf> I've been quite happy with APC products, and quite disgused with tripplite, just in case you're trying to decide what model to do it to.
[19:13:37] <furrywolf> the ups will probably assume the batteries are bad and light a change battery light of some form
[19:13:47] <LeelooMinai> Hmm...
[19:13:47] <furrywolf> disgusted
[19:14:21] <furrywolf> my APC upses have been quite reliable... I ran my house off an apc smart-ups for a couple years. every tripplite I've owned has failed catastrophically completely un-modified.
[19:14:39] <LeelooMinai> About that switch - can I adapt something commonly sold?
[19:14:45] <LeelooMinai> From aliexpress or something
[19:14:54] <LeelooMinai> Where would something similar be used...
[19:15:10] <furrywolf> the smart-ups was perfectly happy inverting 24/7, even running motors and other crap loads... I even dead-shorted the output a couple of times, and all it did was buzz loudly for a few seconds then flash the front panel lights very, very angrily.
[19:15:41] <LeelooMinai> furrywolf: I think one problem could be overheating of transistors - they probably are not designed for such long runs
[19:15:42] <furrywolf> plus it spoke snmp, so I could monitor and control it over my network. :P
[19:15:58] <LeelooMinai> Or rather their heatsinks
[19:16:01] <furrywolf> LeelooMinai: based on my experience, there is no problem, at least in the smart-ups units.
[19:16:13] <furrywolf> I ran it at 100% load (and sometimes over) for extended periods.
[19:16:30] <LeelooMinai> I would put some thermocouple on them and see just in case
[19:16:44] <furrywolf> note that smart-ups is the premium line, not the ones they sell for $29 at your local office supply store.
[19:17:04] <furrywolf> most of the larger smart-ups models are designed for large external battery packs
[19:17:40] <LeelooMinai> Right, all my upses are APC - some are small ones, some are larger - not sure if any of them is the smart version
[19:18:05] <Lowridah> unless you bought enterprise grade, likely no
[19:18:26] <LeelooMinai> Well, I can always macgyver some heatsinking I guess
[19:18:49] <furrywolf> note that smart-ups SC is not really smart-ups, it's just a back-ups with a higher price tag.
[19:19:06] <furrywolf> the smart-ups series is also true-sine, while the cheap ones are modified sine.
[19:19:18] <furrywolf> so you get nice clean power.
[19:20:11] <LeelooMinai> My PowerCHute thing tells me I have BR1000G, whatever that is - it's not that totally cheap one, it's the "tower" position one with LCD
[19:20:49] <furrywolf> that's back-ups according to google, not smart-ups
[19:21:06] <LeelooMinai> I have another one like that went crazy and was always reporting error regardless of batteries
[19:21:15] <furrywolf> modified-sine
[19:21:35] <LeelooMinai> Not sure if I could fix that one
[19:21:45] <LeelooMinai> But it's a good plan I guess
[19:21:56] <LeelooMinai> I only need to find that switch thing
[19:22:54] <LeelooMinai> I guess I could make it myself with solid state rely controlled by whatever.
[19:28:27] <furrywolf> if you get a snmp-manageable version, you can turn the beeper off with software. :)
[19:28:32] <furrywolf> I did that on mine.
[19:30:04] <LeelooMinai> Right, seems I can do that: http://i.imgur.com/awP2XNl.png
[19:31:01] <LeelooMinai> So that would mean I mainly need to buy one of those mppt charge controllers
[19:31:20] <LeelooMinai> I watched some video though of a teardown of a CHinese ones...
[19:32:25] <furrywolf> be warned many of the chinese ones are fake.
[19:32:28] <furrywolf> as in, they're not mppt.
[19:32:39] <LeelooMinai> And there was this potted rectangle in the centre with "mppt chang wang" or whatever on top. So the guy broke off the potting substance and inside there was a 555 ic and that was it...
[19:33:28] <furrywolf> yes. those are fake. :P
[19:33:56] <LeelooMinai> RIght, I would be pissed if I got one of those and looked inside
[19:34:22] <Jymmm> don't look inside?
[19:34:38] <LeelooMinai> Right, oblivion is a bliss
[19:35:05] <furrywolf> Jymmm: also, don't connect it to batteries or solar panels.
[19:35:06] <Jymmm> https://genasun.com/products-store/mppt-solar-charge-controllers/
[19:36:22] <LeelooMinai> Hmm, I think some kind of monitoring would be nice too - throughmodbus or something
[19:36:23] <Jymmm> One thing about genason is there is no measurable EMI/RFI from them.
[19:36:36] <furrywolf> one thing to look at is the input voltage. a mppt charge controller will allow using a string voltage much higher than the battery voltage. for example, my outback will let me connect 150V of panels to a 12V battery.
[19:36:53] <LeelooMinai> Because having solar panels and not having a means to actually see how they contributed would be a bit lame
[19:37:00] <furrywolf> no measurable = fake. everything is measurable. :P
[19:37:21] <furrywolf> LeelooMinai: if you use a ups with software monitoring, just log how long it's on battery, and the load during that time.
[19:37:46] <LeelooMinai> Yes, if I could somehow get power data from it
[19:38:03] <furrywolf> all of the smart-ups series you can.
[19:38:32] <furrywolf> http://fw.bushytails.net/apcupsd.status there's an example dump, from the ups at my last house.
[19:38:41] <LeelooMinai> Right, I would then need to buy one of those and they are probably not cheap
[19:39:00] <LeelooMinai> Unless I can somehow get that data from mine.
[19:39:22] <LeelooMinai> That's the linux apc monitoring app right?
[19:39:35] <furrywolf> I got mine free. they're often close to free once the internal batteries fail.
[19:39:38] <LeelooMinai> I think I run one on my Linux machine
[19:39:42] <furrywolf> yes
[19:39:59] <LeelooMinai> hwat's the command do display this?
[19:40:06] <furrywolf> well, it wasn't free, I had to spend gas and like $5 in parkway tolls...
[19:40:18] <furrywolf> depends on which monitor you have installed
[19:40:39] <furrywolf> that's the status file from apcupsd... I don't recall where it sticks it. haven't used it in a while.
[19:41:19] <furrywolf> for the snmp one I used here I wrote a little script to scrape the telnet interface because it gave more information than the snmp interface, for who-knows-why.
[19:41:30] <furrywolf> and then I switched to specific solar products
[19:41:47] <furrywolf> FX port 1, inv 0.0A, chg 0.0A, buy 0.0A, sell 0.0A, load 0.0A, in 0.0V, out 121.0V, batt 30.0V, mode 2, ac 0, error 0x00, warning 0x00, misc 0x08.
[19:41:48] <furrywolf> MX port 2, chg 18.0A, pv 0.0A, batt 30.2V, pv 33.0V, daily 0.0kWh 9999.0Ah, aux 0, error 0x00, charger 2.
[19:41:48] <furrywolf> FN port 3, A 12.3A (enabled), B 0.0A (disabled), C 0.0A (disabled), batt 29.7V, btemp 99.0C, SOC 100.0%, flags 0x00, extra id 10, data 5.46.
[19:41:48] <furrywolf> not from a UPS. :)
[19:42:01] <LeelooMinai> Yes, that's a good plan - I can write whatever is required as long as I will be able to get at the communication protocol
[19:42:47] <furrywolf> or just use a pre-written monitoring program
[19:44:21] <LeelooMinai> Jymmm: Are you using that mppt controler you linked?
[19:44:37] <furrywolf> bbl, time for work
[20:17:01] <Jymmm> LeelooMinai: yes
[20:19:20] <LeelooMinai> Hmm, they have a bit too small power ratings
[20:22:58] <Jymmm> LeelooMinai: how many watts?
[20:22:58] <LeelooMinai> I have two 210 watt panels
[20:23:15] <Jymmm> https://genasun.com/all-products/solar-charge-controllers/gvb-8a-pb-solar-boost-controller/
[20:23:26] <Jymmm> that 350
[20:23:48] <Jymmm> 12v panels?
[20:24:00] <LeelooMinai> 38V
[20:24:27] <Jymmm> and your battery back is?
[20:24:35] <Jymmm> bank*
[20:24:50] <LeelooMinai> I am pretty sure I will just use normal UPS 12V batteries
[20:25:03] <Jymmm> gelcells?
[20:25:33] <Jymmm> cause the price was right, I'm using a marine battery =)
[20:25:38] <LeelooMinai> Some kind of sealed acid - they may be AGM
[20:25:47] <Jymmm> yeah, I understand
[20:26:13] <Jymmm> but are you going to wire them 12 24 or 48 volt?
[20:27:09] <LeelooMinai> Not sure yet - depends on what UPS I will manage to modify - not sure if they are all 12V
[20:27:12] <Jymmm> I had one ups that used 8x 12V@9AH batteries, wired first to 24V, then to 48V
[20:27:31] <LeelooMinai> Right, it will be either 12V or 24V max in my case
[20:27:49] <Jymmm> what voltage are your loads?
[20:27:59] <LeelooMinai> I think the bigger one had two 12V ones in series
[20:28:08] <LeelooMinai> 110V
[20:28:17] <Jymmm> Well, it's acombination of series/parallel wiring
[20:28:51] <LeelooMinai> Right, but it had two smaller 12V batteries just in series, so it must want 24V
[20:29:32] <Jymmm> Yeah
[20:29:42] <LeelooMinai> I think the smaller one I have may be 12V
[20:30:01] <Jymmm> This was a 3U 2500VA UPS
[20:30:22] <LeelooMinai> Right, it's one of those bigger ones
[20:31:03] <Jymmm> and a bitch to rack mount =)
[20:32:12] <Jymmm> LeelooMinai: If your loads are 110V, and only 400W panels, are these just lights?
[20:32:50] <LeelooMinai> I plan to use this for "assistance" power for my pcs in the basement - one runs all the time, and two run during the day
[20:33:24] <Jymmm> how many watts does just one of these PCs use?
[20:33:55] <LeelooMinai> The small one probably not much - my guess is less than $100 and the other two probably $200
[20:34:03] <LeelooMinai> E, forget the $:)
[20:34:08] <LeelooMinai> I meant watt
[20:34:16] <Jymmm> =)
[20:34:27] <Jymmm> pure off-grid?
[20:34:53] <Jymmm> I know you said assist, bbut I'm not sure how that would work with a ups
[20:35:48] <LeelooMinai> We had ddiscussion with furrywolf above. Basically the plan is to have voltage monitor on the batteries and disconnecting the ups input when the voltage on batteries is good, so it uses them and mains otherwise
[20:36:56] <Jymmm> APC brand UPS constantly monitor the batteries. Be ready for it to setoff alarms =)
[20:37:15] <LeelooMinai> So UPS would be used/abused as a kind of inverter + transfer switch combination I guess
[20:37:31] <LeelooMinai> Right, it may require modifying
[20:38:09] <Jymmm> There's not much to modify, they have minimal circuitry inside them
[20:38:18] <Jymmm> weird, I know.
[20:38:25] <LeelooMinai> Well, they have some kind of microcontroller on them for sure
[20:38:58] <LeelooMinai> I hope they did not code something there that will disable the UPS if it cannot charge the battery
[20:39:10] <Jymmm> Well... yeah, kinda. But it's not as straight forward as one might think. Customs IC's and such.
[20:39:21] <LeelooMinai> Because I don't want ups and the mppt controller to charge at once...
[20:40:16] <Jymmm> Eh, just wire a contactor to the LVD of the controller
[20:40:19] <LeelooMinai> For the switch part I will probably use something like raspberry pi + some kind of adc attachement and solid state rely or maybe something that has adc built in
[20:40:45] <LeelooMinai> LVD is low voltage disconnect?
[20:40:48] <Jymmm> yes
[20:41:09] <Jymmm> I say a contactor as you might be switching 100A at the time
[20:41:38] <LeelooMinai> Is this some kind of inrush current?
[20:41:39] <Jymmm> even if the UPS isn't charging, it is powering the load
[20:41:48] <LeelooMinai> Because the panels are only 8A each
[20:41:52] <Jymmm> No, the load attached to the UPS
[20:42:37] <Jymmm> APC UPS use the battery to "smooth" transit spikes on the line
[20:42:42] <LeelooMinai> Wait, but my PCs are surely not going to suck in 100A...
[20:43:13] <Jymmm> That's just what the fuse was, 100A in the UPS I had
[20:43:27] <LeelooMinai> That sounds a bit extreme to me:)
[20:43:52] <Jymmm> I still have the fuse and harness cables =)
[20:44:45] <Jymmm> If mains dips to 105V, the UPS will use the batteries to bring the load to 110V
[20:45:24] <LeelooMinai> So maybe that 100A is for DC load from batteries?
[20:45:35] <Jymmm> OH yeah, DC only
[20:45:56] <Jymmm> not 100A AC =)
[20:46:00] <LeelooMinai> A, that makes more sense - they are lower voltage so will need to provide more amps
[20:46:57] <Jymmm> So if a UPS uses the battereis to contol spikes, I"m not sure what it would do if you have the USP disconnected form the batteies while they are being charged via solar.
[20:47:26] <Jymmm> I think you canjust change that in the control panel, but I don't know.
[20:47:34] <Jymmm> via software
[20:47:40] <LeelooMinai> Yes, I think I want more to disable possibilty of ups chargin the batteries
[20:48:00] <LeelooMinai> Not anything related to taking power from them
[20:48:53] <Jymmm> just using the UPS as an inverter
[20:49:08] <LeelooMinai> inverter + transfer switch
[20:49:18] <LeelooMinai> automatic transfer switch even
[20:49:42] <Jymmm> transer when? pwr outage?
[20:50:54] <Jymmm> http://strike.coloradolinux.com/~sjg/solar-assisted-UPS.html
[20:50:56] <LeelooMinai> No, as I wrote, I will control connecting/disconnecting the UPS from mains. When batteries are well charged, I will be disconnecting UPS from mains, so it uses batteries, and when they go to, say, 80%, I will be connecting UPS to mains.
[20:51:22] <LeelooMinai> Right, that seems about the same idea
[20:51:59] <Jymmm> and where does the solar fit inn this picture?
[20:52:28] <LeelooMinai> It charges the batteries? :)
[20:53:21] <Jymmm> and how big is your battery bank?
[20:53:57] <LeelooMinai> I think this should not matter much actually, since the system can switch between batteries and mains
[20:54:18] <Jymmm> Battereis dont chage in 15 minutes
[20:54:23] <LeelooMinai> So if the batteries will go a bit low, no problem - it will just connect mains to ups and it should kick in
[20:54:42] <Jymmm> batteeies take hours to charge.
[20:55:17] <Jymmm> Those 210W panels are rated during FULL SUN
[20:55:49] <LeelooMinai> Yes, but does it matter? As I said, if the batteries go low, it will switch to mains.
[20:55:54] <Jymmm> at 8am you might only get 20W
[20:57:00] <Jymmm> Well, if you are only doing solar for that >81% and goto mains otherwise, no. Other than you will be killing batteries quickly.
[20:57:44] <LeelooMinai> I will not draw any power if the batteries are lower than some threshold.
[20:57:58] <LeelooMinai> Not sure what it will be- %80 or whatever is best for batteries.
[20:58:12] <Jymmm> But you are adding charge cycles to the batteries
[20:58:35] <LeelooMinai> Yes, but I undestand that only if you go very low that is a problem.
[20:59:14] <Jymmm> Well, you NEVER want a AGM below 11.1v (?)
[20:59:50] <Jymmm> but think of driving a car 5 minutes a day at 100MPH
[21:00:09] <Jymmm> as opposesd to 2 hours a day at 60MPH
[21:00:20] <LeelooMinai> Yes, so I will not let them to go less that some specific voltage - that's the plan
[21:00:53] <Jymmm> Just keep a CLOSE on on the water levels
[21:01:09] <Jymmm> watch^
[21:01:39] <LeelooMinai> Right, I am sure I will have to learn a bit about the batteries I will be using.
[21:01:39] <Jymmm> even on SEALED battereis )
[21:02:15] <Jymmm> LeelooMinai: http://batteryuniversity.com/
[21:02:46] <Jymmm> EXCELLENT resource
[21:02:58] <furrywolf> "<Jymmm> APC brand UPS constantly monitor the batteries. Be ready for it to setoff alarms =)" I can attest that the ups does NOT care what the batteries do, at all.
[21:03:45] <furrywolf> easiest way to prevent charging would be a high-current low Vf schottky pointing away from the batteries. :)
[21:04:03] <LeelooMinai> furrywolf: Well, they must monitor them to know how/when to charge them, no?
[21:04:06] <Jymmm> LeelooMinai: Specificaly http://batteryuniversity.com/learn/
[21:04:15] <furrywolf> 210W panels, in canada, are about 20W, I'd figure...
[21:04:32] <furrywolf> LeelooMinai: at least the ones I've used just try a constant voltage/constant current charging regime, nothing fancy.
[21:05:02] <LeelooMinai> furrywolf: Well, so I thought, but weirdly Canada/Ontario is pretty good in terms of insolation.
[21:05:24] <LeelooMinai> furrywolf: Apparently just because it's cold somehwere, doesn't mean that you have bad place for solar.
[21:05:30] <furrywolf> don't use sealed batteries unless you really have to. flooded are much more suitable for doing low-cost projects.
[21:05:39] <furrywolf> cold is good. it's the lack of sun that's bad.
[21:06:09] <furrywolf> panels put out substantially more power when cold
[21:06:54] <furrywolf> iff you have a mppt charge controller.
[21:07:00] <Jymmm> LeelooMinai: This is great to play with solar panels and batteries as you can see volta/amps/watts consumed, total http://hobbyking.com/hobbyking/store/__10080__Turnigy_130A_Watt_Meter_and_Power_Analyzer.html
[21:07:30] <Jymmm> LeelooMinai: you can even use it to charge batteries
[21:07:47] <Jymmm> LeelooMinai: test loads, etc
[21:08:28] <LeelooMinai> Right, seems useful - would be super useful if it had some kind of data output...
[21:08:42] <Jymmm> LeelooMinai: it's not a logger
[21:08:46] <furrywolf> I have one like that. be warned the shunt is in the negative side, not the positive side, so you can't use it anywhere you might get a ground path around it.
[21:09:15] <furrywolf> also, the 130A rating is bullshit. it's 128A for about .128 seconds.
[21:09:48] <Jymmm> LeelooMinai: Take one of your solar panels inline with that connected to a series of DC fans. then you can see the REAL wattage output of your panels based on top of day/year.
[21:09:53] <furrywolf> no component anywhere in the current path can handle 130A for more than a second.
[21:10:17] <Jymmm> s/top/time/
[21:10:38] <furrywolf> want to see what 16AWG wire does at 130A? just believe their specs. :P
[21:10:39] <LeelooMinai> furrywolf: This is insolation curve: http://www.applet-magic.com/insolation01.gif
[21:11:22] <furrywolf> LeelooMinai: in theory, that graph perfectly matches reality.
[21:12:09] <LeelooMinai> furrywolf: Well, it's based on the sun position. My point is that I am I think at -48 deg in Canada, so it's pretty good place actually
[21:12:50] <furrywolf> right, but there's more than sun position to insolation. weather is a large factor.
[21:13:04] <Jymmm> LeelooMinai: Test for yourself, reality and reports rarly match
[21:13:09] <furrywolf> http://pv.nrcan.gc.ca/ try that, see if they have better for your location
[21:13:16] <LeelooMinai> Well, it's not like in the summer we have no clear sky here:)
[21:13:24] <Jymmm> LeelooMinai: testing is easy
[21:13:37] <furrywolf> yes, it is. canada is a grey drizzly miserable hellhole. :P
[21:14:08] <furrywolf> what province are you in?
[21:14:19] <LeelooMinai> I realize that theory != reality, but I checked tables for average insolation by cities
[21:14:27] <LeelooMinai> Ontario
[21:14:36] <furrywolf> and city/area?
[21:14:55] <LeelooMinai> It has 110001300 on that map - close to Toronto
[21:15:00] <LeelooMinai> 1100-1200
[21:15:11] <Jymmm> LeelooMinai: If you don't test it yourself, don't be disappointed after you spend craploads and it doesn't work as epected
[21:15:25] <LeelooMinai> I am not spending craploads - it's more of a hobby project
[21:15:44] <Jymmm> It's the nickle and dime stuff that adds up
[21:15:57] <furrywolf> http://pv.nrcan.gc.ca/index.php?n=1752&m=u&lang=e
[21:15:57] <Jymmm> not the BIG purchases.
[21:16:11] <LeelooMinai> I need small prioject like this to gather the data, too
[21:16:46] <LeelooMinai> Right 1100-1200 annual - it's not that bad
[21:17:33] <Jymmm> LeelooMinai: That's what I'm doing. Just using my setup as a test.
[21:17:47] <LeelooMinai> Yes, first I need a setup though:)
[21:17:48] <furrywolf> not that great either. :)
[21:17:57] <Jymmm> LeelooMinai: I'm in it for $800 and only 15W =)
[21:18:04] <LeelooMinai> lol
[21:18:58] <Jymmm> cabling, connectors, this, this, etc. it adds up
[21:19:14] <Jymmm> go from these batteries to those batteries, etc
[21:19:17] <LeelooMinai> Yes, well, I have a resonable plan now I think to do this cheaply
[21:19:35] <LeelooMinai> For cables I plan to use RV cables - I can get them for reasonable price in one of the stores here
[21:19:43] <furrywolf> "The models used are based on position (longitude, latitude) and precipitation (used as a surrogate for cloudiness)." ... precipitation is NOT a surrogate for cloudiness. it can be cloudy without precipitation. lol
[21:19:45] <LeelooMinai> FOr DC that is
[21:19:52] <Jymmm> LeelooMinai: what are RV Cables?
[21:20:09] <LeelooMinai> Apparently cables those RV cars use for DC power
[21:20:22] <Jymmm> jumper cables?
[21:20:27] <LeelooMinai> You know, where they have rooms inside and go for camping
[21:21:01] <LeelooMinai> I mean cables like those: http://www.princessauto.com/en/detail/10-gauge-25-ft-primary-wire/A-p8216848e;jsessionid=0sB2oVToL0tutL6lQHgezNYC.pal-prod-com3
[21:21:09] <LeelooMinai> They are cheap and have big gauge
[21:21:21] <LeelooMinai> Rated for small DC voltages only, but that's ok
[21:21:22] <furrywolf> 10awg isn't big
[21:21:47] <LeelooMinai> Well, it's just an example. THough for 2x8A from panels I don't need bigger ones
[21:21:54] <furrywolf> my inverter is wired with 2/0, and the batteries with 4/0...
[21:22:13] <Jymmm> 210W / 38V = 5.5A
[21:22:20] <Jymmm> DC
[21:22:28] <LeelooMinai> I looked at what gauges I need - 10 is more than enough
[21:22:53] <LeelooMinai> Yes, 8A is max the panels are rated for or something like that - I just use it as a worse case
[21:23:30] <Jymmm> LeelooMinai: Um, I use 4ga just for my inverter alone.
[21:23:39] <Jymmm> LeelooMinai: and that's only 5ft
[21:23:46] <furrywolf> yes, you should always size your wire for the short-circuit current, so things don't melt.
[21:23:55] <LeelooMinai> Well, ok, but that doesn't mean it's not overkill:)
[21:24:12] <Jymmm> LeelooMinai: 4ga gets warm, underkill actually
[21:24:57] <Jymmm> LeelooMinai: Remember what I said abut 100A DC fuse?
[21:25:01] <LeelooMinai> I am talking about cables solar - mppt controller
[21:25:15] <Jymmm> LeelooMinai: how long?
[21:25:38] <furrywolf> they don't seem to sell heavy cable at that website
[21:25:41] <LeelooMinai> Hmm, I think they will be maybe 5 m maybe 6
[21:25:54] <LeelooMinai> So sub 20 ft
[21:25:59] <Jymmm> 5 meters from the panel to contorller?
[21:26:04] <LeelooMinai> Yes
[21:26:15] <Jymmm> LeelooMinai: and form controller to battery bank?
[21:26:27] <Jymmm> from*
[21:26:32] <LeelooMinai> Well, that will be close, so I will find something else for that
[21:26:44] <LeelooMinai> Maybe some jumper wire stuff
[21:26:47] <furrywolf> I have 4AWG from my panels to my controller... it should be thicker, but that's what I had handy.
[21:26:54] <LeelooMinai> Whatever will ve most cost-effective
[21:27:29] <LeelooMinai> I think cable losses sub 3% are considered ok
[21:27:30] <furrywolf> if you buy jumper cables or car audio cable, be warned fake wire is the norm from china these days.
[21:27:32] <Jymmm> LeelooMinai: PLEASE have fuses and a fire extinguisher on hand
[21:27:49] <furrywolf> yeah, my 4AWG wire I seem to recall I worked out to 5% at peak sun, and decided it was good enough.
[21:28:12] <LeelooMinai> furrywolf: Ok, but I assume you are talking more A from panels - how much is that?
[21:28:54] <furrywolf> chinese jumper cables and audio wire is undersized (i.e. it might be labeled 4AWG, but actually be 8AWG), and often copper-plated aluminum instead of solid copper.
[21:29:15] <furrywolf> I get around 55A from my panels in peak sun. it would be higher, but I only have a 60A charge controller, which limits output during peak sun.
[21:29:20] <LeelooMinai> Yes, no, the ones there are tinned copper
[21:29:41] <LeelooMinai> furrywolf: Right, so as you can see for me 8 gauge is good enough
[21:29:57] <LeelooMinai> I think I calculated this and it was between 2 or 3% loss
[21:31:21] <LeelooMinai> Will stuff them into something similar I guess: http://www.princessauto.com/en/detail/1-in-x-25-ft-split-flex-wire-loom/A-p8218844e
[21:31:49] <LeelooMinai> So they are better shielded from environment and it should work, I think
[21:32:10] <Jymmm> LeelooMinai: split loom tubing is NOT UV proof
[21:32:29] <LeelooMinai> The cables will mostly run under my deck, so it should be okl
[21:32:42] <Jymmm> k
[21:32:57] <LeelooMinai> I am more woried about some creatures trying to eat the cable:)
[21:33:15] <Jymmm> non conductive conduit is cheap
[21:33:24] <Jymmm> grey pvc
[21:33:28] <furrywolf> creatures will eat cable that is in anything other than metallic conduit.
[21:34:31] <LeelooMinai> Well, the RV people use those looms...
[21:34:41] <LeelooMinai> And they often park in some areas with wildlife
[21:35:16] <furrywolf> and for some animals, even condiut isn't enough. I had a bear get in my garbage once, and it bit clean through steel cans. :P
[21:35:26] <LeelooMinai> You guys really try to find some way of imposing unavoidable doom on my project, don't you:)
[21:35:54] <furrywolf> I think jymm does, yes. :P
[21:35:59] <LeelooMinai> I almost wait for someone to say that a bear will eat those cables:)
[21:36:51] <Jymmm> LeelooMinai: Here's the thing, you can do whatever you want to, just don't say I didn't tell you so.
[21:37:20] <Jymmm> LeelooMinai: Murphy is a dead man when I catch him.
[21:37:31] <LeelooMinai> Ok, I will remember that there will be no sun, the installation will go on fire, the cables will overheat and be eaten by wildlife:)
[21:40:24] <Jymmm> LeelooMinai: Please do, and dont forget to send pics... http://oi51.tinypic.com/2eanmvd.jpg
[21:41:03] <LeelooMinai> Jymmm: Why did you do that? :p
[21:41:24] <Jymmm> LeelooMinai: That was someone who didn't listen to me
[21:41:32] <LeelooMinai> Right, right...
[21:41:56] <Jymmm> LeelooMinai: Here's 30 seconds and no fire extinguisher http://oi37.tinypic.com/sqh6r7.jpg A $30K USD boo boo
[21:42:27] <LeelooMinai> What is that thing?
[21:42:34] <Jymmm> a laser engraver
[21:42:37] <Jymmm> or was.
[21:42:53] <LeelooMinai> Hmm, I think someone here did that... ss-something?
[21:43:00] <Jymmm> she walked away to answer the door
[21:43:04] <LeelooMinai> Forgot the nick
[21:43:43] <Jymmm> to sign for a UPS package actually.
[21:44:15] <Jymmm> LeelooMinai: So this "doom" you speak of comes from first hand knowledge
[21:44:37] <LeelooMinai> Yes, people put stuff on fire, but not all of them:)
[21:44:53] <Jymmm> yeah, the rest die.
[21:45:04] <Jymmm> no probleme there actually.
[21:45:05] <LeelooMinai> If I burn my house, I will send you a postcard with a pic:)
[21:45:21] <Jymmm> promise?
[21:45:48] <LeelooMinai> I will try not to though - so don't wait for it.
[21:47:14] <Jymmm> LeelooMinai: Realize I'm not saying do do it, I'm just saying dont do it stupidly.
[21:47:35] <LeelooMinai> I am not
[21:48:01] <Jymmm> fuses and a fire extinguisher
[21:48:32] <Jymmm> and marshmellows
[21:51:51] <the_wench> skunksleep: tjtr33 said tjtr33 pm'd you 02apr2015
[21:51:54] <renesis> you aint electronics superpro until youved burnt down a house
[21:52:22] <renesis> why does the_wench do that in channel and not in private message to both parties
[21:58:26] <archivist> because that is the way I coded it and one moan in about 6 years means I was not all wrong
[21:58:57] <furrywolf> lol
[21:59:47] <the_wench> tjtr33: zeeshan said test
[22:24:45] <LeelooMinai> Any ideas if a breaker like this: http://www.aliexpress.com/item/DPNL-1P-N-25A-230V-50HZ-60HZ-Residual-current-Circuit-breaker-with-over-current-protection-RCBO/625666170.html
[22:25:03] <LeelooMinai> would work well for solar panel protection?
[22:25:12] <LeelooMinai> Solar panel in stallation, that is
[22:26:08] <LeelooMinai> I also wonder if they are would be ok in 110V installations - should not matter for tripping, right? That would be determined by current only.
[22:29:32] <furrywolf> no
[22:30:05] <furrywolf> for solar panels you need a DC breaker. Many AC breakers will work, but the rating may be off. A residual current/GFCI breaker absolutely will not work.
[22:31:05] <furrywolf> it also most likely will not work on 11v.
[22:31:06] <furrywolf> 110v
[22:37:26] <LeelooMinai> So maybe something like this? http://www.aliexpress.com/item/2P-32A-DC-440V-Circuit-breaker-MCB-for-PV/623939138.html
[22:39:38] <LeelooMinai> "Long mechanical life over 20000 times and beautiful shape." - how can one resist description like that:)
[22:41:50] <LeelooMinai> Not sure how I should the rating. Panels are 8A max - wonder if it matters much as long it a bit higher than combined 16A
[22:41:57] <LeelooMinai> should choose*
[22:46:11] <furrywolf> I'd use a 15A automotive blade fuse.
[22:46:46] <furrywolf> and put the panels in series, not parallel. with a mppt charge controller the higher string voltage will perform better, and half the current means less wiring losses.
[22:47:17] <furrywolf> although if they're 24V panels, you couldn't use a blade fuse with two in series, as the voltage would be too high.
[22:49:52] <roycroft> is this potentially interesting? :
[22:49:53] <roycroft> http://eugene.craigslist.org/tls/4945836811.html
[22:50:59] <furrywolf> is that a full-length crack in the third photo?
[22:51:12] <roycroft> i hope not
[22:51:21] <roycroft> if it is it's not the least bit interesting
[22:51:48] <roycroft> it could be part of the casting
[22:51:55] <roycroft> but it could be a crack, now that i look at it closely
[22:52:15] <roycroft> it's not far from me, but worth a phone call to see if it's a crack before heading over there
[22:52:22] <roycroft> i should say, it's not far from where i work
[22:52:42] <roycroft> i'd have to drive my pickup to work some day if i went to look at it and possibly buyit
[22:53:17] <furrywolf> it looks like you'd need a pretty stout pickup truck and a forklift...
[22:53:32] <roycroft> it's a 10x36
[22:53:39] <roycroft> so about 1-1/2 tons?
[22:53:51] <furrywolf> dunno. it just looks heavy. :P
[22:54:19] <roycroft> my pickup is a 1/2 ton, but i've hauled a full yard of gravel without any trouble
[22:54:38] <furrywolf> my favorite excessive-machine-tool-in-a-truck was a BIG trip hammer in the back of a '80s toyota. bent the bed into a U-shape the whole length. :P
[22:54:41] <roycroft> and that's well over a ton
[22:54:55] <roycroft> mine's an '88 toyta :)
[22:54:57] <roycroft> toyota
[22:55:16] <furrywolf> he was driving about ten miles an hour down the freeway with his hazards on, the tires squished out, the bed virtually wrapped around the hammer, and the front wheels barely touching.
[22:55:35] <roycroft> i could get a trailer
[22:55:53] <furrywolf> I doubt the axle would have survived hitting a bump...
[22:56:16] <roycroft> and i could drive flat backroads the whole way
[22:56:29] <roycroft> other than driving right through downtown eugene :)
[22:56:48] <furrywolf> definitely check if that's a casting oddity or a crack. If it's a crack, the price is about $1500-(weight * $80/ton) too high.
[22:56:59] <roycroft> yeah
[22:57:08] <roycroft> if it's a crack it's totally useless
[22:57:18] <roycroft> but if not, i think it could potentially be a nice lathe
[22:57:33] <roycroft> i don't like that it only comes with a 6-jaw
[22:57:36] <Rab> Looks like casting to me.
[22:57:59] <roycroft> i'd at least need a 4-jaw for it
[22:58:01] <Rab> It's in relief, with grime deposited around it.
[22:58:57] <roycroft> i'd rather get an old american lathe than a new import, if the former is not too much work to put back in service
[22:59:28] <furrywolf> Rab: you sure? about halfway up the picture it sure looks to have depth... but I can't tell for sure.
[22:59:35] <furrywolf> also, why'd he take a picture of it?
[22:59:52] <roycroft> that may be because he doesn't know what to take pictures of
[23:00:05] <roycroft> for example, he took a picture of a plastic cup partially full of liquid sitting on the lathe
[23:00:09] <roycroft> that's not something you take a picture of
[23:00:20] <furrywolf> lol
[23:00:43] <furrywolf> it certainly could be a casting seam that they didn't bother grinding smooth, but I'd check before buying.
[23:01:09] <roycroft> if it's not a crack, does it seem like it's worth pursuing?
[23:01:13] <Rab> furrywolf, I can tell from the pixels, and from seeing quite a bit of grime in my time.
[23:01:20] <furrywolf> I'd imagine the photo with the cup is to show the chuck, not the cup.
[23:01:23] <LeelooMinai> Where one buys din rails?
[23:01:33] <roycroft> right
[23:01:40] <furrywolf> your local industrial supply shop
[23:01:43] <roycroft> i just have this thing about beverages around computers and machinery
[23:02:00] <roycroft> or amazon or ebay
[23:02:05] <furrywolf> beverage? my assumption was cutting fluid.
[23:02:06] <roycroft> or digi-key or mouser
[23:02:09] <furrywolf> and a flux brush
[23:02:19] <roycroft> oh, is that an acid brush?
[23:02:22] <roycroft> it looked like a straw
[23:02:32] <furrywolf> I think that's an aluminum handled brush
[23:02:38] <furrywolf> and the cup cutting fluid
[23:03:12] <Rab> Haha, yeah...otherwise that McCafe's gone seriously off.
[23:03:12] <renesis> ha, current school lathe
[23:03:41] <furrywolf> I wish I had money to buy toys and space to put toys. :(
[23:03:46] <furrywolf> and time to use toys
[23:03:54] <renesis> welcome to life
[23:04:05] <renesis> consider irresponsible loans
[23:04:06] <roycroft> i'm putting up with a mini-lathe
[23:04:10] <renesis> everyone else is doin it.
[23:04:11] <roycroft> like the hf/grizzly ones
[23:04:17] <roycroft> i really need a better lathe
[23:04:26] <renesis> i need a fuckin bandsaw
[23:04:28] <roycroft> space is tight
[23:04:33] <roycroft> but i can make the space
[23:04:37] <roycroft> money is tighter
[23:04:45] <roycroft> so i'm looking for a bargain that's a real bargain
[23:04:50] <roycroft> not a money sink
[23:05:22] <roycroft> i got a 7x12 bandsaw at hf a few years ago for just over $200
[23:05:31] <roycroft> replace my 4x6 with it
[23:05:56] <roycroft> best upgrade i ever did
[23:06:05] <renesis> i might just get a sawzall to cut up stock
[23:06:22] <renesis> i currently have some skill orbital jigsaw
[23:06:26] <renesis> maximum shittiness
[23:06:42] <renesis> *Skil
[23:06:50] <renesis> it doesnt die tho
[23:07:02] <roycroft> at least get a cheap metal chopsaw
[23:07:06] <furrywolf> I've yet to see a sawzall make a straight cut.
[23:07:12] <renesis> i dont really have space
[23:07:17] * LeelooMinai ponders if buying from someone named "worldwidewait" on ebay is a good idea
[23:07:20] <roycroft> plasma cutter?
[23:07:20] <roycroft> :)
[23:07:52] <renesis> my bed my kitchen and my micromill are in the same room
[23:08:03] <renesis> also two 16u rolling shock racks
[23:08:07] <roycroft> mmm
[23:08:14] <renesis> fuck i need to get shipping quotes on those that would free up mad space
[23:08:17] <roycroft> swarf in your breakfast cereal
[23:08:28] <roycroft> you won't need to take any iron supplements
[23:08:48] <renesis> aluminum chips go really well with frosted mini wheats
[23:09:10] <roycroft> hopefully you're fairly young
[23:09:16] <renesis> somewhat
[23:09:27] <renesis> least i dont sleep with PCB dust in the air anymore
[23:09:48] <roycroft> born after they stopped using metal fillings for teeth
[23:09:59] <renesis> i have both
[23:10:00] <furrywolf> shock racks?
[23:10:28] <renesis> http://www.starcase.com/images/shockmount_rack_16RUhigh_24inchdeep.jpg
[23:10:30] <renesis> that
[23:11:05] <renesis> except mine are custom so the ends hook into the side to become little work tables with fold out legs
[23:11:51] <renesis> also mine are Anvil
[23:11:57] <furrywolf> hrmm. looks like a combination of a road case and a server rack.
[23:12:09] <renesis> its a padded flight rack
[23:12:49] <renesis> and as far as i know, IT and audio both use 19 x 1.75 in racks
[23:13:55] <renesis> i believe IT standardized the position of the rack mounts for the rear of the chassis
[23:13:56] * furrywolf wonders how a flight case differs from a road case. :)
[23:14:12] <renesis> that case, and most racks ive dealt with, dont have that
[23:15:16] <renesis> furrywolf: flight case usually implies metal corner and edges, shrug
[23:15:40] <furrywolf> so does road case...
[23:15:41] <roycroft> i use 23" x 1.75" racks
[23:15:46] <renesis> you can get carpeted cases that only have light duty corners for most applications, or plastic cases
[23:15:56] <roycroft> because telecom
[23:16:00] <renesis> the skb plastic cases are pretty rad
[23:16:10] <furrywolf> I don't have any rack-mount stuff except a power supply and a meter, which end up sitting on the workbench instead of in a rack.
[23:16:11] <renesis> strong and a lot of gap from exterior to the gear
[23:16:21] <renesis> i got these free
[23:16:26] <furrywolf> so I don't own any racks. :)
[23:16:40] <Cromaglious> OMG Leverage S01E04 great episode
[23:16:50] <renesis> there was a mistake and 10 were ordered instead of 1 and eventually they were just getting in the way in the lab shipping dock
[23:16:54] <furrywolf> I mounted the power supply under the workbench... the 1u shape made it mount there very nicely.
[23:19:01] <Cromaglious> I had one of those cases... They're great
[23:19:30] <renesis> i dont want to get rid of them but i need the money
[23:20:14] <Cromaglious> how much you asking for one?
[23:20:28] <LeelooMinai> Hmm, is there some speacial meaning to "disconnect" with respect to just switch?
[23:20:31] <renesis> and they would be going to the place i do contract work for, they got a pretty badass studio, some live sound stuff, little lab studio, and we want to get more test gear
[23:20:46] <renesis> seems like a good home for them
[23:21:10] <renesis> cromaglious: like ~$500
[23:21:14] <renesis> but theyre a bitch to ship
[23:21:24] <renesis> and im trying to get them 600 miles south of here
[23:21:29] <furrywolf> LeelooMinai: things advertised as disconnects usually disconnect all poles and have a means of being locked open
[23:21:49] <LeelooMinai> Right, makes sense
[23:21:50] <renesis> its going to be like ~$400 i think
[23:21:57] <furrywolf> check with your local bus service. amtrack, greyhound, etc, often ship large, light things reasonably cheap.
[23:22:10] <renesis> i dont think theyll fit
[23:22:21] <renesis> and i would have trouble getting them to the station
[23:22:23] <renesis> haha
[23:22:24] <renesis> actually
[23:22:33] <renesis> its like 4 blocks from here i could roll them
[23:22:37] <furrywolf> if that fails, then you're looking at LTL freight.
[23:22:58] <renesis> wouldnt be as bad as when i rolled development subwoofers to and through a supermarket to test their casters
[23:23:17] <renesis> furrywolf: right, residential pickup, ~$400
[23:23:29] <renesis> was the fedex quote
[23:23:42] <renesis> im not sure how much they weight and im not sure how to weight them
[23:23:47] <renesis> i dont have a scale
[23:24:06] <furrywolf> fedex is a lot more costly than random ltl freight companies
[23:24:09] <Cromaglious> you have a bathroom scale?
[23:24:10] <renesis> and i think theyre heavier duty than the 80lb racks im seeing online
[23:24:20] <renesis> cromaglious: no =\
[23:24:35] <renesis> i maybe get one
[23:24:40] <Cromaglious> weight set?
[23:24:49] <renesis> no just a lap bar
[23:25:07] <Cromaglious> take a 2x4 and make a balance scale
[23:25:16] <renesis> furrywolf: fedex is low drama and i can maybe get company to pay on their acct
[23:25:16] <furrywolf> build a small boat that fits in your bathtub, fill the tub to the rim, set the case on top of the boat, measure the volume of the puddle on the bathroom floor, multiply by the density of water. :P
[23:25:44] <renesis> i dont have a bathtub
[23:26:00] <renesis> i havent had one of those in like 4 years
[23:26:03] <furrywolf> ... how can you not have a bathtub?
[23:26:10] <renesis> i have a shower
[23:26:35] <furrywolf> I've never seen a house without at least one bathtub.
[23:26:57] <renesis> i live in a tile floor studio single, and i dont pay water power or gas
[23:27:03] <renesis> awesome place is awesome
[23:27:22] <Cromaglious> with swarf EVERYWHERE!
[23:27:31] <renesis> naw just a little
[23:27:46] <renesis> machine is neglected since i used it for that class project
[23:27:55] <furrywolf> my living room has a lot of swarf in it... need to vacuum that part once I get some of the crap out of the way.
[23:31:07] <furrywolf> http://www.ebay.com/itm/Portable-GloBug-Balloon-Light-with-Tripod-Stand-/301531947045 someone got a good deal, but that would still have been more than I could afford. bleh. I want to find one of those really cheap.
[23:33:09] <furrywolf> http://www.ebay.com/itm/Multiquip-GBP-GloBug-Balloon-Light-1K-W-/171671278743 that's how they're normally priced.
[23:35:44] <Cromaglious> I melted one of those
[23:35:54] <furrywolf> can I have it? :P
[23:35:59] <Cromaglious> 40mph winds
[23:36:06] <Cromaglious> 20 years ago
[23:36:46] <furrywolf> they claim they won't melt even if the balloon is deflated. also, the current edition is LED, and presumably runs at non-melting temperatures
[23:37:22] <furrywolf> "Safer; LED holds less heat - LED Lamps (158°) vs. Metal Halide (422°)"
[23:37:34] <furrywolf> http://www.multiquip.com/multiquip/GB8LED.htm
[23:37:43] <furrywolf> 110,000 lumens from 800W LED module
[23:37:44] <Cromaglious> the one I was using halogen
[23:39:11] <Cromaglious> San Francisco beerfest 1995 or 6
[23:39:20] <Cromaglious> microbrews
[23:39:44] <furrywolf> halogen is the worst bulb I could think of putting in one of those
[23:40:05] <furrywolf> well, maybe not worst. an open-air arc lamp or an old-fashioned acetylene limelight would be worse...
[23:40:20] <furrywolf> metal halide makes much more sense... and LED is even better.
[23:41:57] <furrywolf> bbl, wolfy bedtime
[23:42:09] <Cromaglious> nite nite
[23:44:03] <furrywolf> I should build one... 1000w metal halide lamps+ballasts are $50... hard part is figuring what to make the balloon out of.