#linuxcnc | Logs for 2015-03-29

[03:06:11] <Deejay> moin
[11:38:46] <crazy_imp> heyho
[11:39:29] <crazy_imp> is it possible to "unroll" gcode and save it?
[11:39:47] <archivist> unroll...er why
[11:40:08] <crazy_imp> (asking because i want to delete some holes in a grid and don't want to code it :D)
[11:40:42] <archivist> add a where clause to not drill those
[11:41:54] <archivist> or grep the gcode and delete where drill those locations
[11:42:20] <crazy_imp> the code is compact with some loops and a sub routine
[11:42:53] <crazy_imp> that's why i'm asking if it's possible to save the code from linuxcnc/axis after loading it
[11:43:26] <archivist> if x=and y= dont drill
[11:44:06] <archivist> in the drill routine
[11:47:27] <crazy_imp> ok, i'll code it :D
[11:56:27] <_methods> just use block delete
[11:57:00] <archivist> coded loops cant do that
[11:57:30] <_methods> why not?
[11:58:01] <archivist> because that would lose rows/columns of holes not odd holes
[11:58:45] <_methods> yea i guess i'm not sure how his code is set up then
[12:00:52] <crazy_imp> http://pastebin.com/87f1BnhZ
[12:01:42] <_methods> haha i remember when i used to code stuff like that
[12:02:10] <archivist> it is the only way !
[12:02:28] <_methods> maybe if you're the only one using your code
[12:02:37] <archivist> for anybody doing regular pattern type work
[12:04:09] <archivist> for me making gears it is a rotate A, cut along some axis, rinse repeat n teeth
[12:51:45] <crazy_imp> is it possible to use newlines in the expressions of owords?
[12:54:57] * JT-Shop looks for an older version of sheetcam without the 120 line limit
[13:32:52] * zeeshan notices this channel is quiet
[13:33:36] <Jymmm> It was... WERE TRYING TO SLEEP HERE so shuuut ya 3.14 hole!
[13:34:34] <Jymmm> ;)
[13:35:16] <zeeshan> you only remember 2 decimal places of pi
[13:35:19] <zeeshan> wow
[13:35:33] <zeeshan> i remember like 5!
[13:35:39] <zeeshan> 3.141593
[13:35:42] <zeeshan> or 6
[13:35:43] <zeeshan> :)
[13:36:39] <Jymmm> 3.1415926535897932384626433832795028841971693993751058209749445923078164062862089986280348253421170679821480865132823066470938446095505822317253594081284811174502841027019385211055596446229489549303819644288109756659334461284756482337867831652712019091456485669234603486104543266482133936072602491412737245870066063155881748815209209628292540917153643678925903600113305305488204665213841469519415116094330572703657595919530921861173819326117931
[13:36:39] <Jymmm> 051185480744623799627495673518857527248912279381830119491298336733624406566430860213949463952247371907021798609437027705392171762931767523846748184676694051320005681271452635608277857713427577896091736371787214684409012249534301465495853710507922796892589235420199561121290219608640344181598136297747713099605187072113499999983729780499510597317328160963185950244594553469083026425223082533446850352619311881710100031378387528865875332083814206
[13:36:39] <Jymmm> 171776691473035982534904287554687311595628638823537875937519577818577805321712268066130019278766111959092164201989380952572010654858632788659361533818279682303019520353018529689957736225994138912497217752834791315155748572424541506959508295331168617278558890750983817546374649393192550604009277016711390098488240128583616035637076601047101819429555961989467678374494482553797747268471040475346462080466842590694912933136770289891521047521620569
[13:36:40] <Jymmm> 660240580381501935112533824300355876402474964732639141992726042699227967823547816360093417216412199245863150302861829745557067498385054945885869269956909272107975093029553211653449872027559602364806654991198818347977535663698074265425278625518184175746728909777727938000816470600161452491921732172147723501414419735685481613611573525521334757418494684385233239073941433345477624168625189835694855620992192221842725502542568876717904946016534668
[13:36:42] <Jymmm> 049886272327917860857843838279679766814541009538837863609506800642251252051173929848960841284886269456042419652850222106611863067442786220391949450471237137869609563643719172874677646575739624138908658326459958133904780275900994657640789512694683983525957098258226205224894077267194782684826014769909026401363944374553050682034962524517493996514314298091906592509372216964615157098583874105978859597729754989301617539284681382686838689427741559
[13:36:44] <Jymmm> 918559252459539594310499725246808459872736446958486538367362226260991246080512438843904512441365497627807977156914359977001296160894416948685558484063534220722258284886481584560285060168427394522674676788952521385225499546667278239864565961163548862305774564980355936345681743241125150760694794510965960940252288797108931456691368672287489405601015033086179286809208747609178249385890097149096759852613655497818931297848216829989487226588048575
[13:36:47] <Jymmm> 640142704775551323796414515237462343645428584447952658678210511413547357395231134271661021359695362314429524849371871101457654035902799344037420073105785390621983874478084784896833214457138687519435064302184531910484810053706146806749192781911979399520614196634287544406437451237181921799983910159195618146751426912397489409071864942319615679452080951465502252316038819301420937621378559566389377870830390697920773467221825625996615014215030680
[13:36:48] <Jymmm> 384477345492026054146659252014974428507325186660021324340881907104863317346496514539057962685610055081066587969981635747363840525714591028970641401109712062804390397595156771577004203378699360072305587631763594218731251471205329281918261861258673215791984148488291644706095752706957220917567116722910981690915280
[13:36:49] <zeeshan> lol
[13:36:50] <Jymmm> shall I continue?
[13:37:03] <Jymmm> i do have pi to a million digits
[13:37:05] <zeeshan> thats only going to get you _so_ close
[13:37:11] <LeelooMinai> Jymmm: You have a typo at 253rd pllace
[13:37:17] <zeeshan> rofl LeelooMinai
[13:37:17] <zeeshan> haha
[13:37:59] <Tom_itx> wtf was that all about?
[13:38:12] <Jymmm> I really do have pi to a million digits, been wanting to engrave it in grantire, but smaller than 4pt is just not legible.
[13:38:28] <Tom_itx> engrave it somewhere besides here pls
[13:38:30] <zeeshan> you only need like 6 digits to get close to most engineering solutions
[13:38:30] <zeeshan> :)
[13:38:35] <Tom_itx> i have a few thoughts where
[13:38:56] <Jymmm> Tom_itx: quit yer bitchin old man!
[13:39:11] * Jymmm steps on Tom_itx's lawn
[13:39:27] <Tom_itx> just don't need to see a bunch of useless numbers nobody would practically use
[13:39:41] <zeeshan> SPEAK about yourself tom!
[13:39:58] <Tom_itx> what do you have that needs that accuracy?
[13:40:14] <Tom_itx> the tread on your tires?
[13:40:17] <zeeshan> yes
[13:40:22] * LeelooMinai looks at some circles made by Tom_itx and they look like eggs
[13:41:17] <Tom_itx> you'd need equipment i dare say nobody here owns to measure that accuracy anyway
[13:41:45] <Jymmm> Nope you can get micron stuff off ebay
[13:42:56] <zeeshan> do you guys know what pi is
[13:43:05] <Tom_itx> apple or cherry?
[13:43:10] <zeeshan> you can find it somewhat accurately using your DRO!
[13:43:14] <Jymmm> tasty
[13:43:43] <Tom_itx> 22/7
[13:44:41] <Tom_itx> Jymmm what's that in binary?
[13:45:20] <zeeshan> wut is 22/7
[13:45:37] <zeeshan> that aint even close to the 3rd decimal place!
[13:46:52] <Tom_itx> pi is the ratio of the diameter to the circumference
[13:47:05] <Tom_itx> close to 22/7
[13:47:20] <zeeshan> yea like P = πD
[13:48:02] <Jymmm> Tom_itx: You bitched about Base10 and now want it in Base2 ?!
[13:48:10] <zeeshan> rofl Jymmm haha
[13:48:20] <Tom_itx> hehe
[13:48:27] <zeeshan> how would you even represent it?
[13:48:37] <zeeshan> break it into multiple double precision float?
[13:48:44] <Tom_itx> if you printed it in rows maybe it would paint a picture of jesus
[13:49:23] <Jymmm> Fuck, just loading the text file takes a moment as it is.
[13:49:30] <zeeshan> do you know about the hidden message in pi?
[13:49:45] <zeeshan> 3.14 <- mirror it
[13:49:47] <zeeshan> what do you get?
[13:49:51] <zeeshan> PIE!
[13:49:54] <Jymmm> rotten fruit + sugar
[13:51:29] <Tom_itx> go to your old HS and write it out on the chalkboard
[13:52:31] <zeeshan> you know what i didnt know
[13:52:35] <zeeshan> helium is a finite resource?
[13:52:44] <zeeshan> apparently it leaks to space?
[13:52:53] <zeeshan> i still feel like that is a whole lot of bullshit
[13:52:56] <pcw_home> There's a lot in the sun
[13:53:11] <zeeshan> pcw_home: that guy is a bit far :)
[13:56:28] <t12> finite resource... on earth
[13:56:32] <t12> try heavy helium thats worse
[14:21:56] <andypugh> <giggle> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y8NqeD73ZZ4
[14:27:06] <Jymmm> andypugh: too tendious
[14:27:22] <andypugh> Is that even a word?
[14:27:53] <Jymmm> tedious
[14:28:07] <Jymmm> andypugh: learn to speak typo
[14:28:36] <andypugh> 32 seconds is too tedious?
[14:29:11] <andypugh> (And I thought you might mean “tendentious” which would have worked well)
[14:29:12] <Jymmm> Wut, you can't read typos, and now can't hear either?! Yes, 30 seconds too long!
[14:30:06] <Jymmm> </sarcasm>
[14:37:45] <heathmanc1979> So, i have a dc servo setup using AMC 30A8 amplifiers. I have them tuned decently, but when traversing the table, ocassionally i get a following error
[14:38:02] <heathmanc1979> What is most likely to get rid of that?
[14:38:21] <heathmanc1979> Following error is set at default .0005
[14:39:31] <heathmanc1979> This is at 30ipm
[14:39:56] <andypugh> Maybe you are right on the limit of the max motor speed?
[14:40:05] <heathmanc1979> Happens only on direction changes
[14:40:25] <andypugh> Maybe you are right on the limit of the max motor accelleration.
[14:40:50] <heathmanc1979> Acceleration is set at 1"/sec
[14:41:11] <heathmanc1979> I could try turning it down i suppose.
[14:41:23] <andypugh> Hmm, that actually sounds rather low.
[14:41:31] <zeeshan> mines like 10 in/s^2
[14:41:48] <zeeshan> heathmanc1979: got a post of your tune?
[14:41:51] <zeeshan> pic
[14:42:06] <heathmanc1979> I know. Think it is a tuning issue. I was getting a following error when enabling the machine to begin with
[14:42:13] <andypugh> heathmanc1979: Which kins module are you using?
[14:42:26] <zeeshan> in the Z axis?
[14:42:35] <heathmanc1979> No, x axis
[14:43:44] <heathmanc1979> Andypugh, this is just a default install, with a 4i69 and 7i33
[14:44:03] <andypugh> So, you are using trivkins?
[14:44:07] <heathmanc1979> Yes
[14:45:22] <andypugh> Hmm. With non-trivial kins you need accel and velocity in the [TRAJ] section or there are f-errors on decel. But that isn’t the case with trivkins AFAIK
[14:46:31] <heathmanc1979> I dont have a tuning screenshot, because i have done this by hand so far, havent completely figured out halscope to look at it
[14:46:57] <zeeshan> by hand? :)
[14:47:36] <heathmanc1979> Lol, without using halscope, plugged in values until thing started shaping up
[14:48:00] <zeeshan> you really need halscope
[14:49:17] <heathmanc1979> I know. Just havent sorted it out yet, searching for a good tutorial
[14:50:02] <zeeshan> http://i.imgur.com/YGjs38b.png
[14:50:18] <zeeshan> you just need to plot out axis.x.f-error
[14:50:24] <zeeshan> and analogoutx
[14:50:37] <zeeshan> and setup so that you trigger off analogout0
[14:51:05] <pcw_home> Are the drives running in velocity mode? (that is, do they have tachometer feedback from the motors)
[14:51:47] <heathmanc1979> No tach
[14:52:00] <heathmanc1979> Just 1000 line encoders
[14:52:11] <pcw_home> OK so drives must be in torque mode
[14:52:46] <pcw_home> (or at least they should be set to torque mode)
[14:53:13] <heathmanc1979> Lol, might be a problem then. They are in voltage mode
[14:53:52] <pcw_home> voltage mode should be OK also
[14:54:02] <pcw_home> just not velocity mode
[14:54:39] <heathmanc1979> Ok, drives only have current, voltage, and tach(velocity)
[14:56:10] <heathmanc1979> Not finding this analogoutx
[14:56:16] <andypugh> I would expect current to work better than voltage. But with no experience either way.
[14:57:22] <andypugh> heathmanc1979: Do you really mean 4i69?
[14:57:24] <pcw_home> voltage mode is is a bit easier to tune because it has inherent damping of high frequency vibrations
[14:57:28] <heathmanc1979> Yes
[14:57:37] <heathmanc1979> Pci 104 on a sbc
[14:58:12] <pcw_home> but tuning is a bit odd because its about 1/2 way between velocity and torque (current) mode
[14:58:25] <andypugh> I wasn’t aware that LinuxCNC + 4i69 worked
[14:58:40] <heathmanc1979> Lol, it does, when you have the firmware
[14:58:49] <heathmanc1979> And without pncconf
[14:59:21] <andypugh> Anyway, I think you are probably sending PWM to the drives rather than analogue out?
[14:59:27] <pcw_home> pncconf will work fine (just tell it its 5i20)
[14:59:41] <heathmanc1979> Nope
[14:59:55] <heathmanc1979> Connectors are different, p1,3,4
[15:00:09] <pcw_home> not important
[15:00:28] <heathmanc1979> Essentially that is what i did, then changed the config
[15:00:41] <heathmanc1979> Replacing 5i20 with 4i69
[15:00:51] <heathmanc1979> And that got me started
[15:01:56] <heathmanc1979> Damn halscope!!!
[15:02:22] <pcw_home> they all use the same pinout files so all the GPIO will be setup properly, only connectors names will wrong in pncconf
[15:02:52] <heathmanc1979> Right, no biggie. The tuning is the issue now
[15:03:58] <pcw_home> Tuning voltage mode is a bit like velocity mode but you need to add D (velocity mode typically doesn't use D)
[15:05:13] <andypugh> Accelleration from high speed will be less (for the same PID output) at high speed, so the lack of compensating D could well be the problem.
[15:06:19] <heathmanc1979> So, to best see this in halscope, what channels do i need to see
[15:06:32] <pcw_home> voltage mode need as much D as is stable (running the servo loop faster will allow mode D)
[15:06:34] <pcw_home> the amount of P you can use depends on the amount of D
[15:06:47] <pcw_home> allow more D
[15:06:54] <andypugh> heathmanc1979: We don’t even know which channels you have :-)
[15:07:32] <andypugh> But axis position, axis f-error, encoder velocity, PID output I would stat with.
[15:07:44] <pcw_home> probably axis velocity, pwm value and ferror
[15:11:43] <heathmanc1979> And jog left then right? Anything in particular?
[15:12:18] <heathmanc1979> I have a chart, just best to screenshot it?
[15:13:09] <pcw_home> screenshot to pastebin
[15:14:00] <heathmanc1979> What is the hotkey to screenshot?
[15:15:20] <pcw_home> depends on OS
[15:20:02] <Cromaglious> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HXu8JWIWd00 Tubalcaine having issues
[15:20:35] <heathmanc1979> Http://imgur.com/5vjxzq0
[15:20:47] <heathmanc1979> Not right
[15:21:57] <heathmanc1979> Http://i.imgur.com/5vjxzq0.png
[15:22:44] <heathmanc1979> Damn touchpad. Need a client on this machine for irc
[15:24:06] <heathmanc1979> Http://i.imgur.com/5vJxzq0.png
[15:24:13] <heathmanc1979> There
[15:27:40] <heathmanc> Much better
[15:28:45] <zeeshan> zoom in ferror
[15:28:45] <zeeshan> :)
[15:28:59] <Swapper> im trying to get a gladevcp "scale" bar to output a value to a mesa 7i77 but im doin somtin wrong
[15:29:09] <Swapper> net floodcoolant.flowscale => hm2_5i25.0.7i77.0.1.analogout3
[15:29:14] <Swapper> would that work ?
[15:29:58] <heathmanc> zoom in at what point?
[15:30:00] <JT-Shop> what does it do?
[15:30:12] <heathmanc> the slider is all the way left
[15:30:24] <zeeshan> click on the ferror channel
[15:30:31] <zeeshan> and increase the vertical gain to like 500uS
[15:30:42] <zeeshan> noit uS
[15:30:45] <zeeshan> whatever units it has :)
[15:31:18] <JT-Shop> Swapper, did you watch the pin in show hal while you moved the slider
[15:31:43] <Swapper> yea the floodcoolant.flowscale shows the value from the slider
[15:32:07] <Swapper> but im unshure of the hal connection if its the right way
[15:32:18] <heathmanc> http://i.imgur.com/IpgPCON.png
[15:33:12] <Swapper> floodcoolant.hal:1: Signal name 'floodcoolant.flowscale' must not be the same as a pin. Did you omit the signal name?
[15:33:17] <Swapper> i get that error
[15:33:21] <pcw_home> looks like it needs more FF1
[15:33:49] <heathmanc> right now, ff1 is .5
[15:36:11] <heathmanc> http://i.imgur.com/9UpjMC8.png
[15:36:13] <heathmanc> and now?
[15:44:19] <heathmanc> <zeeshan> does that look about right?
[15:46:46] <zeeshan> looks good :P
[15:46:56] <zeeshan> you shouldnt be getting ferror s now
[15:47:21] <zeeshan> try rapiding
[15:47:26] <zeeshan> and halscoping
[15:47:29] <zeeshan> and make sure its still good
[15:47:38] <zeeshan> and then try again at very slow speeds
[15:49:26] <heathmanc1979> Seems to work
[15:52:51] <heathmanc1979> Cant get it to error now. But the accel is only 1"/sec
[15:54:38] <heathmanc> pcw, this look better? http://i.imgur.com/9UpjMC8.png
[15:56:10] <pcw_home> a lot better
[15:56:57] <heathmanc> bumped the ff1 to 5
[15:57:11] <heathmanc> any other recommendations?
[15:59:36] <pcw_home> well you can carefully tune FF1 for each axis (via the calibrate menu)
[15:59:37] <pcw_home> (set I to 0 if its not during this tuning)
[16:00:57] <heathmanc1979> I used the calibrate menu
[16:01:07] <pcw_home> you may be able to add more D ( and hence more P ) if you run the servo loop faster
[16:01:27] <heathmanc1979> What should i set the servo loop to?
[16:02:09] <pcw_home> depends on a the PC, a fast PC will allow 8 KHz or so, a Atom D525 maybe only 1.5 KHz
[16:03:17] <pcw_home> what CPU do you have?
[16:03:36] <heathmanc1979> 2.26 core 2 duo adlink board
[16:03:54] <pcw_home> OK try 4 KHz
[16:05:21] <heathmanc1979> Will give it a shot, this boards seems to work well, latency test shows about 3500
[16:12:40] <MrFluffy> Hi, hoping someone here can help me clear up my utter confusion. I have linuxcnc conversion on a bridgeport interact, the spindle is controlled by a vfd, which I supply 0-10v analog voltage. I have a daughter board (spindleV4 from diycnc.co.uk) which takes step input and converts it to 0-10v analog out. And I have 3 pins on my second parallel port connected as spindle on, direction, and speed. basic question, is this a pwm setup
[16:12:52] <Deejay> gn8
[16:13:02] <MrFluffy> I can make the spindle go round and change direction, but cannot figure out how to control the spindle speed...
[16:14:42] <heathmanc1979> Where do i set the servo loop speed
[16:15:07] <furrywolf> ugh. one of my peppers (at a minimum) has some kind of disease.
[16:16:04] <pcw_home> Some 0 --> 10V converters are PWM some are PFM (for step rate controlled voltage) you need to look at the specs of your daughtercard
[16:17:07] <pcw_home> heathmanc1979: its set in the hal or ini file (servo period)
[16:17:27] <MrFluffy> The manual for the daughterboard says :- This is achieved by converting stepper pulses from the parallel port into a voltage level suitable for the spindle drive board. Is that PFM?
[16:17:29] <heathmanc1979> Set it to 200000
[16:17:42] <dirty_d> any ideas on the easiest way to attack a potentiometer or something to the throttle on this? http://ad-discountperformance.com/images/mikunicarb.JPG
[16:18:11] <pcw_home> yes sounds like PFM
[16:21:30] <MrFluffy> Ok, trying to rtfm now with correct term... thanks
[16:23:15] <Cromaglious> Whats the otherside of the throttle shaft look like?
[16:25:29] <Cromaglious> look thru the Throttle position sensors and find one that looks like it would hang on the shaft. then make a bracket to hold it. You could use the 4 screws holding the diaphram cover to mount it
[16:27:03] <zeeshan> anyone know much about date codes on welding tanks?
[16:27:08] <furrywolf> the other end often doesn't stick out of the carb. just make a bracket on the end you do have that fits any random vehicle's throttle position sensor. (except volvo. they don't work.)
[16:27:24] <furrywolf> zeeshan: they should be a plain date, nothing fancy...
[16:27:28] <zeeshan> its not man
[16:27:31] <zeeshan> check this out
[16:27:33] <Cromaglious> that carb is setup for a vertical cable pull, so there might be someplace on the cable guide to mount it
[16:27:40] <zeeshan> my argon tank is regular numbers
[16:27:45] <zeeshan> like "month" "year"
[16:28:13] <Cromaglious> all my tanks are way past cert date
[16:28:16] <MrFluffy> Some of the stamping will be the tare of the cylinder too zeeshan
[16:29:03] <furrywolf> dirty_d: what're you building?
[16:29:06] <MrFluffy> tare = amount of gas to add to consider it filled. no idea what the rest of the world uses as a encoding scheme, but Ive lived in the uk and now france and I am sure both use different syntax.
[16:29:16] <zeeshan> http://i.imgur.com/rKhrOeZ.jpg
[16:29:18] <zeeshan> this i understand
[16:29:22] <zeeshan> you can see it was made in 1937
[16:29:30] <zeeshan> and last date on this is 1963
[16:29:38] <zeeshan> http://i.imgur.com/kh9i070.jpg 91+ on this one
[16:29:43] <dirty_d> furrywolf, EFI for a jet ski
[16:29:44] <zeeshan> now here is where i get confused, that other number.
[16:29:52] <furrywolf> MrFluffy: eh? tare is usually empty cylinder weight, no?
[16:29:54] <zeeshan> it says 07 153 97
[16:30:02] <zeeshan> http://i.imgur.com/DviABCz.jpg
[16:30:04] <furrywolf> dirty_d: so you're going to use the carb for just a throttle body?
[16:30:04] <zeeshan> this is the last entry.
[16:30:10] <zeeshan> 03 3 27 08
[16:30:10] <dirty_d> furrywolf, exactly
[16:30:14] <zeeshan> + and *
[16:30:19] <zeeshan> + means 10 year cert
[16:30:24] <zeeshan> * means you can overfill by 10%
[16:30:25] <furrywolf> dirty_d: what about just getting an efi throttle body off a random vehicle?
[16:30:29] <zeeshan> but im not sure what the heck that number means
[16:30:35] <zeeshan> im hoping it means it was last certified in 2008.
[16:30:40] <zeeshan> so that means itll expire in 2018
[16:30:40] <dirty_d> furrywolf, i think it would be more work getting it to fit
[16:31:16] <furrywolf> going to use spfi or mpfi?
[16:31:18] <dirty_d> furrywolf, i was thinking maybe glue a magnet somehow to the part that rotates
[16:31:27] <dirty_d> and then some kind of pickup
[16:31:38] <dirty_d> just one injector
[16:31:45] <furrywolf> so single-point.
[16:31:50] <dirty_d> ill probably just drill a hole in the carb somewhere
[16:31:54] <dirty_d> yea
[16:32:35] <MrFluffy> I saw a mikuni with some kind of tps retrofitted, it had a snail shaped cam on the throttle spindle outboard of the cable, and a plunger type tps mounted on a bracket with a floatbowl, someone does them as some kind of kit to retrofit ignition mapping stuff or something
[16:33:03] <MrFluffy> if you weld a boss to tap onto the body, they go spang with the distortion...
[16:33:30] <Cromaglious> 07 15397 + looks to be 07+ and a serial number 15397 different stamps, sizes and the 15397 is a rolled number, 07 is stamped
[16:33:33] <MrFluffy> let me find the picture
[16:33:47] <furrywolf> hrmm, I can't think of any car with throttle body injection that small...
[16:34:19] <Cromaglious> geo metro 3cyl is TBI i believe
[16:34:26] <MrFluffy> furrywolf: Possibly, Im getting mixed up now, I only have to deal with that when filling the little no2 bottle and I have a printed out sheet to stop me making mistakes then...
[16:34:26] <dirty_d> yea its a very small carb
[16:34:41] <MrFluffy> what is the bore?
[16:34:49] <dirty_d> 44mm
[16:35:00] <furrywolf> that's not THAT small.
[16:35:02] <MrFluffy> I have a 11mm bore carburettor on my tractor... I kid you not, 1600cc
[16:35:07] <dirty_d> wow
[16:35:12] <MrFluffy> 44mm is in the region of clio etc
[16:35:40] <dirty_d> i do have a MAF sensor I was going to use, but i dont know if the airflow range is within the range of the sensor
[16:35:47] <MrFluffy> 34mm is Gpz1100 motorcycle standard size and they come with throttle bodies and a 5v tps.
[16:35:53] <dirty_d> i figured throttle position is more foolproof
[16:36:15] <furrywolf> how many hp is your motor?
[16:36:20] <dirty_d> i think about 40
[16:36:27] <dirty_d> 550cc
[16:36:56] <furrywolf> that should be within the range of a small car maf sensor
[16:37:50] <zeeshan> http://lincolnelectric.com/en-us/equipment/Pages/product.aspx?product=K2473-2
[16:37:51] <zeeshan> anyone got this?
[16:38:05] <dirty_d> it was for a 2.4L nissan
[16:38:52] <Cromaglious> zeeshan, AHHH HELL NO! I got my mig for $99
[16:39:07] <dirty_d> i just have a stick and broken tig
[16:39:07] <zeeshan> i dont want a crappy mig to be honest
[16:39:20] <zeeshan> im looking at the 180c cause its continuously adjustable
[16:39:24] <zeeshan> which will help for thinner stuff
[16:39:32] <dirty_d> but its only half broken, i can hook up the stick welder to the tig welder and still use scratch start to weld
[16:39:49] <dirty_d> no current control, but good enough
[16:40:46] <furrywolf> "Toughest PC Board Protection in the Industry – ‘Potted’ to seal sensitive components from the environment" aka "Requires entirely assembley to be replaced every time".
[16:41:05] <Cromaglious> Kragen (O'Reilly now) fluxcore mig, and a Harbor Freight 131 mig
[16:41:22] <dirty_d> i wouldnt even bother with a mig welder
[16:41:30] <MrFluffy> Sorry, cant find the pic of it, it struck me as a bad idea anyway to be honest, just it was easy to retrofit to a carb without worrying about mounting. Id just fit a throttle body, you can run a bigger venturi without hurting performance anyway with efi.
[16:41:47] <zeeshan> why not dirty_d?
[16:41:48] <furrywolf> there is no such thing as "fluxcore mig".
[16:42:04] <Cromaglious> my 131 does MIG or fluxcore
[16:42:06] <zeeshan> mig is such a bullshit term though
[16:42:11] <zeeshan> metal inert gas
[16:42:16] <MrFluffy> I think he means flux coated wire... aka gasless.
[16:42:17] <zeeshan> how is co2 argon innert
[16:42:20] <zeeshan> inert :P
[16:42:58] <furrywolf> dirty_d: I'd still suggest poking around at the junkyard for a small car throttle body, see if you can find one that looks like a close fit.
[16:43:00] <Cromaglious> meaning no oxygen or hydrogen
[16:43:17] <dirty_d> zeeshan, you can do more with a tig welder
[16:43:22] <zeeshan> dirty_d: no you cant
[16:43:23] <zeeshan> lol
[16:43:25] <dirty_d> mig is more for high production work
[16:43:25] <zeeshan> i have one.
[16:43:32] <zeeshan> a mig is a lot easier for fabrication
[16:43:34] <furrywolf> googling shows you can get shiny new ones (even 44mm and ready to bolt up) for motorcycle efi conversions, but ungodly expensive.
[16:43:35] <dirty_d> yea it is
[16:43:36] <zeeshan> when you're doing random welding
[16:43:46] <Cromaglious> mig is onehanded tig
[16:43:54] <zeeshan> i only use my tig in portable mode
[16:43:56] <zeeshan> when doing roll cages
[16:44:02] <zeeshan> but other than that ive really needed a mig for a long time
[16:44:07] <furrywolf> ... mig is not onehanded tig. they're completely different processes.
[16:44:17] <dirty_d> if you do a lot of welding mig is good
[16:44:24] <MrFluffy> have both, and tig every time for me...
[16:44:27] <zeeshan> dirty_d: give you a prime example
[16:44:30] <zeeshan> im working on my lathe enclosure
[16:44:32] <Cromaglious> furry I know...
[16:44:39] <MrFluffy> mig welding aluminum is like living on the knife edge of a disaster permanently...
[16:44:42] <zeeshan> i was trying to tig it.. it's a pain in the ass man
[16:44:52] <zeeshan> especially for tacking and trying to weld in a weird spot
[16:45:01] <dirty_d> yea it is harder
[16:45:11] <zeeshan> and its really not needed to be honest
[16:45:16] <zeeshan> for car stuff ill always use tig
[16:45:19] <furrywolf> mig is great for welding steel. for alu and stainless, use tig. mig is very fast and easy.
[16:45:21] <Cromaglious> yeah you really need the high Frequency component
[16:45:24] <zeeshan> but i wanted a mig to tack exhaust stuff
[16:45:25] <dirty_d> i just like the precision of tig
[16:45:42] <dirty_d> i dont mind if its harder and slower, because i dont relly have to weld much
[16:45:50] <zeeshan> the reason i started off with a tig is cause its a clean process
[16:45:58] <zeeshan> and most car people want their stuff tig'ed
[16:46:04] <zeeshan> cause you have a lot of control over penetration
[16:46:08] <dirty_d> yea
[16:46:11] <zeeshan> where with mig if it's not set right its more like
[16:46:13] <zeeshan> "spray and pray"
[16:46:15] <dirty_d> right
[16:46:30] <MrFluffy> a bad mig weld still looks good, thats what i dont like the most...
[16:46:34] <zeeshan> but i hate doing tig anywhere other than on the table
[16:46:36] <MrFluffy> until you break test it
[16:46:43] <dirty_d> ive seen good looking mig welds peel right off
[16:46:58] <dirty_d> i like that you can see exactly whats going on with tig
[16:47:04] <zeeshan> also another thing about mig.. its not as picky on dirty steel
[16:47:20] <dirty_d> i just use 6011 for dirty stuff
[16:47:23] <zeeshan> where you dont really need the strength , but just want to hold stuff
[16:47:37] <furrywolf> http://www.ecotrons.com/products/400cc_to_800cc_engine_fuel_injection_kit/ you can give them money and have efi-in-a-box...
[16:47:40] * Tom_itx gives zeeshan an acetylene torch and some coat hangar
[16:47:41] <dirty_d> 7018 for clean stuff
[16:47:45] <zeeshan> Tom_itx: hahaha
[16:47:53] <zeeshan> dirty_d: what are these numbers
[16:47:57] <zeeshan> E7018 filler?
[16:48:13] <MrFluffy> oxy acet is awesome, but its too easy to set fire to your hair concentrating... ask me how i know...
[16:48:17] <dirty_d> zeeshan, stick electrodes
[16:48:18] <Cromaglious> 6011 for root and build passes, 7018 for cap passes
[16:48:21] <zeeshan> oh
[16:48:24] <zeeshan> i havent done stick welding
[16:48:46] <zeeshan> i use er70s filler for steel w/ the tig
[16:48:57] <Cromaglious> zeeshan, take quite a bit of practice to lay down welds with no inclusion
[16:48:57] <dirty_d> pretty sure thats what i have
[16:49:03] <furrywolf> I suck at stick.
[16:49:10] <zeeshan> furrywolf: how
[16:49:11] <zeeshan> lol
[16:49:14] <dirty_d> overhead stick is always fun, lol
[16:49:20] <MrFluffy> best bit of tig, picking up some unknown metal, bandsawing a strip off, and using that as the filler rod knowing it will match the composition...
[16:49:28] <dirty_d> if you like molten metal down your shirt
[16:49:30] <Cromaglious> I'm ok, but to many inclusions...
[16:49:56] <furrywolf> dirty_d: http://www.ecotrons.com/products/small_engine_rhb31_vz21_turbocharger/ add one of those too
[16:50:06] <furrywolf> zeeshan: how what?
[16:50:14] <dirty_d> holy crap, lol
[16:50:17] <zeeshan> stick welding is point and shoot! :P
[16:50:23] <Cromaglious> upsidedown welding I pretty much only use mig
[16:50:26] <MrFluffy> Stick is great for heavy stuff
[16:50:29] <furrywolf> zeeshan: shaky paws
[16:50:33] <zeeshan> hehe
[16:50:37] <MrFluffy> hardox rods, 400amp welds, digger repairs
[16:50:44] <furrywolf> mig lets me rest my paws on each other and the workpiece
[16:51:02] <MrFluffy> I use heavy arc on agri machine repair and mods...
[16:51:05] <zeeshan> do you guys do your mig like this:
[16:51:05] <dirty_d> we only used stick when i worked at a boatyard
[16:51:10] <zeeshan> ......... /\/\/\/\/\/\/\
[16:51:15] <zeeshan> which one?
[16:51:27] <furrywolf> depends on how wide of a bead I'm trying to make.
[16:51:33] <Cromaglious> mine is more ))))))))))))))))))))
[16:51:42] <zeeshan> some people like doing circles
[16:51:44] <zeeshan> that overlap
[16:51:45] <Tom_itx> or circles
[16:52:08] <Cromaglious> overlapping circles
[16:52:12] <Tom_itx> sometimes happyface is good ... depending on the mood
[16:52:18] <zeeshan> hahah
[16:52:27] <furrywolf> dirty_d: give them a thousand bucks and you'll have efi AND a turbo. :P
[16:52:38] <dirty_d> furrywolf, i think ill stick to DIY, lol
[16:52:41] <MrFluffy> an old oil cooled arc set with just a massive big transformer inside, theres nothing to break, they just keep working...
[16:52:43] <dirty_d> ive only spent like $60
[16:53:11] <Cromaglious> with welding relief beveled edges, I tent to use happy face
[16:53:14] <zeeshan> MrFluffy: my tig is transformer based
[16:53:21] <zeeshan> but i wish i could own the newer millers
[16:53:30] <MrFluffy> i have a transformer tig, but i cant weld with it half as good as my inverter set
[16:53:31] <zeeshan> the frequency adjustability really kicks ass!
[16:53:36] <zeeshan> you can get such a narrow aluminum weld
[16:53:40] <MrFluffy> the arcs not very stable, and sine wave
[16:53:52] <Cromaglious> MrFahrenheit, My pops has a miller buzz box that has no oil cooling...
[16:53:57] <Tom_itx> i've got a small miller mig
[16:54:12] <furrywolf> I've never done tig... haven't seen a tig welder for sale at a price I can afford yet.
[16:54:14] <zeeshan> http://i.imgur.com/kbYvwwd.jpg
[16:54:28] <zeeshan> my welds are always wide like that
[16:54:33] <MrFluffy> furry: the chinese sets arent bad... just a bit unreliable
[16:54:36] <zeeshan> but with my friends dynasty
[16:54:45] <zeeshan> i can get em to 1/2 that width
[16:54:46] <dirty_d> i bought one of the chinese ones, then it stopped working
[16:55:04] <dirty_d> the gas valve still works though, so i got that going for me which is nice
[16:55:09] <furrywolf> MrFluffy: don't most of them lack sufficient hf to do aluminum?
[16:55:11] <MrFluffy> I blew my chinese set up, but a outfit in the uk repairs the boards, and it only cost $30 to fix
[16:55:46] <MrFluffy> my go to tig set is a 3 phase 400amp watercooled job, and that is chinese inside, its a welbach which is supposed to be german, but its shengzen all the way inside
[16:55:54] <MrFluffy> and that is lovely to use
[16:56:29] <MrFluffy> pretty much theyre all chinese now, even the names, all that happens is the manufacturers who care put their own QC into the lines to make sure everyone stays honest on component choice
[16:56:42] <zeeshan> no theyre not :P
[16:56:51] <zeeshan> miller and lincoln proudly made in canada and usa
[16:56:51] <Cromaglious> hehe I fixed the neibhors miller the SCR controlling the throttle fried.. replaced it with a SCR ttttttttttthat was 2x voltage and 3x amperage rated.. still working ttoday 15 years later
[16:57:13] <zeeshan> Cromaglious: howd you diagnose that?
[16:57:18] <zeeshan> blue smoke check?
[16:57:18] <MrFahrenheit> Cromaglious, you want some of my oil? 8-)
[16:57:21] <furrywolf> zeeshan: lincoln makes much of their stuff in italy, with similar quality to china.
[16:57:28] <zeeshan> furrywolf: wrong
[16:57:32] <zeeshan> ive been to the lincoln factory in toronto
[16:57:35] <Cromaglious> burned scr
[16:57:44] <zeeshan> they make them inhouse there!
[16:57:46] <furrywolf> ... I _own_ an italy-made lincoln.
[16:57:56] <zeeshan> yea well that doesnt make all of them made in italy
[16:58:15] <MrFluffy> Both lincoln and miller have chinese assembly plants
[16:58:28] <furrywolf> I didn't say all. I said "much".
[16:58:30] <zeeshan> ill take either one of those brands
[16:58:33] <zeeshan> that have their own qc here
[16:58:38] <zeeshan> vs a crappy import
[16:58:50] <zeeshan> ie POWERFIST!!!
[16:58:51] <Cromaglious> it was a marginal part to start with only 3v head room and it was a 5amp rated scr with a working load of 4.3aaaamps
[16:58:54] <MrFluffy> so would I but I cant afford to pay miller new prices...
[16:58:59] <zeeshan> me either
[16:59:02] <zeeshan> miller is so damn expensive
[16:59:08] <zeeshan> the dynasty 180dx is like 4k
[16:59:24] <zeeshan> my tig that i could from lincoln was like 1500 cheaper than that
[16:59:41] <zeeshan> it paid for itself within the first year i got it
[16:59:42] <Cromaglious> replaced it with a 30v 15amp scr
[16:59:48] <MrFluffy> I paid $1000 for the 400amp weibach, and its now 3 years old
[16:59:55] <furrywolf> all my welding equipment is from craigslist, yard sales, and the scrapyard.
[16:59:56] <zeeshan> ac dc?
[17:00:07] <furrywolf> got my wire feeder (that plugs into my stick machine) at the scrapyard...
[17:00:11] <MrFluffy> ac/dc pulsed, digital controls etc
[17:00:28] <MrFluffy> external watercooler, but its more portable like that, my other set is a BOC ADR, and it weighs over half a ton
[17:00:41] <MrFluffy> but the tig you can pick up and lift into a van
[17:01:05] <MrFluffy> the BOC is a old transformer tig, all mode again, but ac waveform and unstable on aluminium
[17:01:10] <MrFluffy> can only use pure tungstens too
[17:01:28] <furrywolf> only thing I have in the half-ton range is my lincoln engine-driven welder. has an onan flat-twin on one end, welder+generator on the other.
[17:01:31] <MrFluffy> its so big it has lifting eyes and its own heavy casters, but i dont have to worry about anyone stealing it
[17:01:56] <MrFluffy> I still use it for heavy arc work, its superb for that still
[17:02:58] <MrFluffy> the welds come to me, i dont do that fieldwork stuff :)
[17:03:47] <MrFluffy> out of mig, tig and arc, i would take the tig and arc any day
[17:03:51] <furrywolf> I have a miller dialarc 250 (0-300a ac/dc stick supply), lincoln something-or-other 225 welder/generator, miller wire feed box (connects to either stick supply to use as mig), and a century 110V mig welder. oh, and a century 220v mig welder stuffed under the house that's missing parts, along with a snap-on 110v mig that's too utter shit to be worth figuring out why its welds suck horrible.
[17:04:21] <MrFluffy> i dont have oxy acet anymore, but when i did it was handy to have around wiht a pepperpot torch to warm up things and other stuff, but the cylinder rental is stupidly expensive now
[17:04:28] <furrywolf> the snap-on is by far the lowest quality of them all. it makes harbor freight look good.
[17:04:41] <MrFluffy> haha its not made by snap on, its a taskmaster inside
[17:04:42] <dirty_d> is that possible?
[17:04:49] <furrywolf> it looks like it's built by century, but with the instructions "don't spend more than $20".
[17:04:51] <MrFluffy> if you give me a mo ill remember who makes them for them
[17:04:58] <MrFluffy> cebora...
[17:05:01] <Cromaglious> MrF: which is why I just equalize my tanks with pipe fitters
[17:05:04] <MrFluffy> if its the 130...
[17:05:38] <MrFluffy> I actually have one of them under the bench, but converted to din socket and euro torch because the original torch is terrible, and costs more than a new welder
[17:06:12] <MrFluffy> Theyre made by cebora for snap-on, and the same unit is sold as a cebora and a taskmaster
[17:06:24] <furrywolf> it uses a WINDSHIELD WIPER MOTOR to feed the wire! no electronics, speed control is just a rheostat. power selection is transformer taps. transformer and heavy wiring are all aluminum. it uses little button diodes, like found in a $5 battery charger, instead of proper welder-grade rectifiers.
[17:06:47] <MrFluffy> yeah i fried the motor control board years ago and had to mess around with it :-)
[17:06:51] <Cromaglious> I have my 115 mig flux only here at the house, and I need to get my 131 back with my radial arm saw, drill press, and other tools frm my bosses barn
[17:07:15] <MrFluffy> how big is your radial?
[17:07:24] <MrFluffy> is it a aquith or something monsterous?
[17:07:29] <MrFluffy> asquith...
[17:07:36] <Cromaglious> my lincoln 100 torch
[17:07:41] <MrFluffy> sorry, getting confused iwth a radial arm drill
[17:07:46] <Cromaglious> MrFluffy, sears 10"
[17:07:54] <MrFluffy> I like big toys :)
[17:08:37] <Cromaglious> radial are saw is a bit handier than a compound power miter
[17:08:50] <Cromaglious> arm
[17:09:03] <furrywolf> my miller s-32s has a big oiled gearbox, big motor with replacable brushes, etc. my snap-on has a windshield wiper motor.
[17:09:10] <furrywolf> snap-on is supposed to be a premium brand...
[17:09:43] <MrFluffy> snap on spanners are great, but they farm out a lot of their lines to other makers and some of that is rubbish
[17:10:06] <MrFluffy> spanners, screwdrivers etc are good, but the bluepoint stuff I dont like, and they dont make their own air tools also
[17:10:34] <MrFluffy> so people buy a snap on air drill, thinking theyre getting good quality and theyre harbour freight quality devices
[17:10:42] <MrFluffy> but at snap on prices...
[17:11:01] <furrywolf> yep
[17:11:14] <furrywolf> which is what my snap-on welder is... harbor freight quality at snap-on prices.
[17:11:14] <MrFluffy> all their electrical kit is like that too, welders farmed out to whoever, scopes and strobes and diagnositic kit the same
[17:11:23] <furrywolf> I bought it for $50, and it rather pissed me off.
[17:11:46] <MrFluffy> ive had that little mig for 20 years now, its served me well for all its cheesyness
[17:11:59] <MrFluffy> but it is on its second wiper motor :)
[17:12:42] <zeeshan> oo external watercooler
[17:12:43] <zeeshan> i want one
[17:12:46] <MrFluffy> I welded alu with that set... I actually managed it too once or twice
[17:12:46] <furrywolf> I suspect the motor in my miller will never need replacing. :)
[17:13:37] <MrFluffy> I opened that boc tig up inside, and I doubt anything in there will ever wear out either, giant relays on octal bases like in some funky mainframe computer from the 60s...
[17:13:39] <zeeshan> ive heard that only blue point
[17:13:46] <zeeshan> in sourced out. anything else is made in usa
[17:13:56] <furrywolf> I got it for $20 from the scrapyard... got it home, predictably non-functional. started reverse-engineering until I found the problem. A bad $0.25 optoisolator.
[17:14:27] <MrFluffy> in europe snap on do their spanners in the OEM version and a cheaper one called eurotools too, which dont have a nice finish and break easier.
[17:14:47] <MrFluffy> and the man with the van wont change them when they do break too
[17:14:48] <furrywolf> I can't find any good photos of the gearbox... https://s3-us-west-2.amazonaws.com/usedphotosna/39914517_934.jpg is the closest I could find, and all you can see is the back of the motor. heh.
[17:15:07] <furrywolf> and it's not the same model I have, just similar.
[17:17:52] <MrFluffy> I keep wondering about buying a big mig set with a pull gun setup, but i dont do enough car work to justify one
[17:18:16] <MrFluffy> by car work i mean panel work, i use the tig for fine stuff like everyone else
[17:18:57] <MrFluffy> big 3 phase sets go real cheap because nobody has 415v 3 phase to their shop
[17:19:00] <furrywolf> I still haven't seen a tig I could afford. :(
[17:19:03] <MrFluffy> in europe anyway
[17:19:10] <furrywolf> only one on craigslist right now, $2200... or about 22 times my maximum price.
[17:20:45] <MrFluffy> do you not have the cheap chinese sets flooding the market?
[17:20:58] <furrywolf> no
[17:21:43] <furrywolf> and, as I said, aren't they unsuitable for aluminum?
[17:22:00] <MrFluffy> in what way?
[17:22:30] <dirty_d> furrywolf, bingo? http://www.digikey.com/product-highlights/us/en/akm-semiconductor-inc-em-3242-one-chip-monolithic/615
[17:22:40] <furrywolf> I don't remember. straight dc, no fancy square wave duty cycle controls?
[17:23:11] <MrFluffy> you pay a bit more, you get ac
[17:23:23] <MrFluffy> theres a range, the more you go up, the more facilities you get
[17:23:52] <furrywolf> right, now say you have a budget of $100, what do you get?
[17:24:36] <MrFluffy> I know someone who just bought a ac set with all the bells on non working for $100 and its cost him $60 to get a new board for it from shopriver on ebay who will help you out if she sells the same units
[17:25:34] <MrFluffy> i have a chinese plasma cutter, and it blew up, the magic plasma smoke leaked out inside and it melted a hole through what used to be the lower power pcb, and a company in the uk sold me a new board for $30
[17:25:55] <MrFluffy> and i dont blame it, at the time i had no workshop, so it had been left in a storage room with a damp dirt floor
[17:26:15] <MrFluffy> theyre almost all the same inside rebadged...
[17:26:48] <MrFluffy> they all come out the same plant, then companies in the export zone buy them in, then resell them with their brands on, same deal as the Longs steppers
[17:27:05] <furrywolf> I have a Marquette (made by lincoln, in italy) plasma cutter... no brains, just a big transformer.
[17:28:07] <furrywolf> I've never tested it... got it cheap at a yard sale. needs all new consumables, possibly a new gun. it melted enough that I don't know if new consumables will make it work.
[17:29:05] <MrFluffy> if its just a transformer, put the meter on it and check the windings, then adapt one of the generic torches to it, or use it as a plasma table source
[17:29:26] <furrywolf> I can tell you it was putting out plenty of power when it stopped being used. :P
[17:30:08] <furrywolf> it looks like they tried putting a harbor freight nozzle on it (even came with a pack of them, with the other 4 of the 5 still in it), and it didn't work, melting everything behind it.
[17:31:00] <MrFluffy> On my spindle problem Im reading this, http://linuxcnc.org/docs/html/examples/spindle.html , Im guessing my board means I have to do the first option in .hal...
[17:31:31] <MrFluffy> Maybe theres something wrong then, the air blast is supposed to protect the torch from the plasma heat
[17:32:30] <MrFluffy> DAC = PFM I am guessing
[17:33:39] <furrywolf> http://www.usaweld.com/Marquette-Plasma-Cutting-Parts-p/marquette5152-parts.htm needs all of them except the very outer nozzle holder, plus one part inside that I'm not sure is replacable... might need a new one turned from phenolic or something.
[17:34:18] <pcw_home> The difference is that you will need to use a stepgen component instead of a
[17:34:20] <pcw_home> PWM component to generate the signal your daughterboard needs
[17:34:33] <furrywolf> the diffuser sits in a round tube of what looks like phenolic, that's melted.
[17:36:51] <furrywolf> I tried ordering parts at the local lincoln dealer, and they said they weren't allowed to order marquette parts, even though it's a lincoln brand. yay corporations.
[17:36:56] <MrFluffy> Ok, so its not a DAC, as the pin is digital, so what would the equivalent signal be for spindle-speed-DAC ? I am still confused sorry.
[17:37:33] <MrFluffy> Its none of the examples on the spindle speed control wiki page I am guessing, but another way.
[17:37:41] <pcw_home> spindle-speed-dac is fine (its just a signal name you can make up any you like)
[17:38:06] <furrywolf> hrmm, some snap-on torch parts look suspiciously similar... did snapon rebrand marquette at some point?
[17:38:15] <MrFluffy> I tried and got the error :- bridgeport_interact1.hal:29: Signal 'spindle-speed-DAC' of type 'float' cannot add pin 'parport.1.pin-16-out' of type 'bit'
[17:38:32] <pcw_home> blue-wire-that-goes-to-the-spinny-thing will work just as well
[17:38:36] <MrFluffy> So I read that as am defining it as a float somewhere as its a analog signal?
[17:38:55] <furrywolf> http://ep.yimg.com/ay/weldingdirect/snap-on-plasma230-ya5550a-plasma-consumable-parts-4.gif on mine, the large tube sticking out of the torch head, grey colored in that image, is melted.
[17:39:52] <MrFluffy> furrywolf: I had that go on mine in use, and had to replace the head. When the tip fails it sometimes lets the plasma come out sideways as it goes and the heat goes back into the head damaging it.
[17:40:00] <pcw_home> yes you cannot connect pins of different tyops
[17:40:10] <pcw_home> types even
[17:40:20] <furrywolf> http://www.usaweld.com/v/vspfiles/photos/Marquette5152-Parts-2.jpg http://ep.yimg.com/ay/weldingdirect/snap-on-plasma230-ya5550a-plasma-consumable-parts-4.gif do those look like the same consumables to anyone but me?
[17:41:19] <MrFluffy> Ok that makes sense, Im trying to see where I actually cast the type of signal, I am editing the .hal in vi because stepconf is broken for me
[17:41:50] <pcw_home> so motion.spindle-speed-out --> stepgen velocity command
[17:41:52] <pcw_home> and stepgen step pin --> parport output
[17:41:54] <MrFluffy> I have the spindle on the second parallel port and its not triggering the spindle speed menu as a result, i posted a thread to the forum about it
[17:43:15] <pcw_home> dont think stepconf can build rate controlled DAC bolierplate anyway so you will need to add this to the hal file yourself
[17:43:19] <MrFluffy> To take that example, I have this, from the example:-
[17:43:19] <MrFluffy> net spindle-speed-scale motion.spindle-speed-out => scale.0.in
[17:43:32] <MrFluffy> then :- net spindle-speed-DAC scale.0.out => parport.1.pin-16-out
[17:43:45] <pcw_home> you probably dont need scale
[17:43:51] <MrFluffy> the example is scaled so I copied that
[17:44:00] <MrFluffy> ok, less is more when something doesnt work
[17:44:05] <pcw_home> nor can you connect a float to a bit
[17:44:32] <pcw_home> first step is add new stepgen for spindle
[17:44:50] <pcw_home> next set said stepgen into velocity mode
[17:45:26] <pcw_home> then net motion.spindle-speed-out to the new stepgens velocity command input
[17:46:33] <furrywolf> hah, yep, found a page listing both those as cross-reference to the same part. so now I know how to find generic ones instead of stupidly overpriced ones.
[17:46:44] <pcw_home> (and set an appropriate stepgen scale for scaling)
[17:46:46] <pcw_home> finally net the step utput of the spindle stepgen to the parallel port pin of choice
[17:46:56] <pcw_home> step output
[17:48:14] <pcw_home> for actual pin names:
[17:48:16] <pcw_home> man motion
[17:48:16] <furrywolf> ... seriously? complete chinese plasma torches are only $10? that's cheaper than any one consumable for mine.
[17:48:17] <pcw_home> man stepgen
[17:48:43] <MrFluffy> So the stepgen is in quadrature velocity mode, aka type2 (I am reading that man page right now )
[17:48:48] <furrywolf> maybe I should just get one of those, then I can use harbor freight consumables.
[17:49:23] <pcw_home> yes that probably the best (close to square wave output)
[17:50:06] <pcw_home> though you should check your daughtercard specs (maybe it likes a fixed pulse width)
[17:50:30] <MrFluffy> ok, I think that means this (I have four axis already):- loadrt stepgen step_type=0,0,0,0,2 ctrl_type=p,p,p,p,v
[17:50:39] <MrFluffy> so the spindle will be the fifth
[17:50:56] <pcw_home> yeah something like that
[17:51:18] <MrFluffy> the card is aimed at mach, so it has some nice screenshots of the configs for that and not much more I am afraid
[17:51:42] <pcw_home> well you get to experiment :-)
[17:52:02] <MrFluffy> more importantly I get to understand the whys for what comes later...
[17:52:17] <pcw_home> does it specify the frequencies for 0 and 10V?
[17:53:27] <furrywolf> my mach-oriented breakout board says pwm, not pfm...
[17:53:32] <MrFluffy> Yes, 10 volts output for 2000 pulses per second
[17:54:09] <MrFluffy> this is stepper, they say to connect it as the A axis steppers
[17:54:29] <MrFluffy> 10v into the altivar = 2000rpm, so i need 2000 pulses per second to get top speed out the spindle
[17:54:47] <MrFluffy> That seems quite high on first reflection...
[17:55:54] <MrFluffy> From the book, Mach3 Typical Spindle setup Note: Step/dir Motor checked and Use Motor Output.
[17:56:52] <MrFluffy> Compared to the chinese bob I was going to use, this actually has instructions which is a plus, I just didnt understand the concept enough to use the information.
[17:57:53] <pcw_home> if 2000 RPM is full speed you need to scale the stepgen in Hz so stepgen.N.position-scale = 1
[18:00:00] <MrFluffy> so I would use stepgen.5.phase-A output for the pin signal?
[18:00:21] <pcw_home> ( so when motion.spindle-speed-out = 2000, the stepgen generates 2000 steps per second )
[18:00:23] <pcw_home> Yes ( or B )
[18:01:21] <pcw_home> (the stepgens built in scaling is why the scale comp is not needed)
[18:29:37] <MrFluffy> pcw_home:Im trying to digest what you said above, and comparing it to this example I have found :- http://cnc4pc.com/Files/EMC2.txt
[18:30:10] <MrFluffy> but, when I try that I get parameter or pin 'scale.0.in' not found, how does the pin actually get defined?
[18:31:11] <MrFluffy> would it need a addf first, but the pin is a binary not a float isnt it...
[18:45:50] <andypugh> MrFluffy: You need a “loadrt scale” somewhere or scale.0… won’t exist. It also won’t exist if your loadet scale uses the names= option (the scale wil be called something other than scale.0)
[19:01:11] <pcw_home> (and you dont need scale at all since the stepgen is scalable)
[19:03:30] <andypugh> That too. Even if the input it rps and you want rpm, then you can fudge that by scaling the stepgen suitably.
[19:03:46] <MrFluffy> I think I have found the culprit, I have added more config into custom.hal and custom_postgui that is interfering, right now its loading, so I have to go out into the shop to see if its actually going round as Im sshd in from the house
[19:04:32] <MrFluffy> my wife is tolerant, but even she would draw the line at a bridgeport in the house...
[19:05:48] <Rab> MrFluffy, CCTV?
[19:05:53] <andypugh> Ihave a Rivett 608 in the living room. But then I don’t have a wife :-)
[19:06:25] <FinboySlick> The rivett is as pretty as a wife should be though.
[19:06:26] <andypugh> (Though the leading contender for that role dod say “ooh, that’s a pretty lathe” :-)
[19:06:40] <FinboySlick> And nearly as quiet.
[19:07:56] <Rab> andypugh, I know someone with a 15' radio tower in his vaulted living room. I asked how the ladies reacted to it, and he said that's how I know who's a keeper.
[19:08:25] <andypugh> Let me guess: No keepers so far?
[19:08:31] <Rab> He doesn't have a wife either, no.
[19:09:14] <Rab> He does date...I guess they just don't want to move in.
[19:09:45] <andypugh> Probably worried about being irradiated
[19:09:55] <Rab> yep
[19:12:09] * furrywolf wants a wife
[19:14:51] <furrywolf> but it's hard to find women that are mature, intelligent, sane, practical, like wolfies, and are good with a strapon...
[19:15:58] <furrywolf> bbl
[19:15:59] <andypugh> furrywolf: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hKWmFWRVLlU
[19:18:11] <MrFluffy> I should set the ip cam to point at it, in fact I thought of tha just now after Ive locked up
[19:19:06] <MrFluffy> I dont mind keeping them out in the shop, swarf in the bed can be painful
[19:20:34] <MrFluffy> I took the scale out, and it started, but the spindle didnt and hal signal meter said the spindle on never went true.
[19:21:00] <andypugh> I find swarf everywhere. Generally using my bare feet.
[19:21:28] <andypugh> Reminds me of a quite from somewhere “Shins, the human organ designed to find furniture in the dark”
[19:21:55] <MrFluffy> or 3 pin mains plugs in the uk, whoever invented them was a sado machocist
[19:22:17] <MrFluffy> they have a flat back, with 3 very rigid brass pointed pins which always stick upwards
[19:22:32] <MrFluffy> they are magnetic for feet in the dark
[19:26:55] <MrFluffy> Why would you have a radio tower inside your house where it will be attenuated by the walls anyway!
[19:27:20] <tjtr33> andypugh, ROFL, spot on "Thats a dude man!"
[19:29:01] <MrFluffy> Before I met the current mrs fluffy, I lived in a house I shared with a relative also into bikes and we set fire to the kitchen carpet once building a bike in there...
[19:36:10] <andypugh> That’s just stupid. Who puts a carpet in a kitchen?
[19:36:58] <tjtr33> who? some barefoot guy working on a lathe ( ducks )
[19:42:07] <MrFluffy> Well connecting spindle-enable <= motion.spindle-on has the gui looking promising, I am just going to have to trapse outside again at 2.20am and check it actually goes around now.
[19:45:43] <andypugh> MrFluffy: Are you on CET or did you forget to change the clocks :-)
[19:53:05] <MrFluffy> Yes Im in CET
[19:53:41] <MrFluffy> And now I have the webcam set up so I dont have to drag myself out there again to see that I havent fixed it with the latest change...
[19:58:27] <MrFluffy> I have this signal connected to the port :- net spindle-out <= stepgen.4.step => parport.1.pin-16-out
[19:59:03] <MrFluffy> Hal Meter monitoring spindle-freq shows a value of 0-2000
[19:59:26] <MrFluffy> spindle enable = true, direction changes with the clicks of the gui, but no motion itself
[20:00:14] <andypugh> Check the PWM duty cycle?
[20:00:37] <andypugh> Sorry, ignore that
[20:00:53] <MrFluffy> spindle-on is FALSE...
[20:01:07] <andypugh> stepgen.4.enable?
[20:02:16] <andypugh> MrFluffy: An important point here: Signal names are free-choice and mean nothing. You could control the spindle speed with a signal called “coolant-temperature” if you wanted to.
[20:02:28] <MrFluffy> That is true, and net spindle-enable <= motion.spindle-on => stepgen.4.enable
[20:02:49] <andypugh> That should go true with M3 and S > 0
[20:02:56] <MrFluffy> Yes, theyre just aribitary labels that hopefully make sense to humans
[20:03:18] <andypugh> I would guess that your S-value is zero
[20:03:19] <MrFluffy> I cant M3, its not homed and I turned the dc rail off for the night... Argh
[20:03:30] <MrFluffy> so it wont take any mdi
[20:03:45] <andypugh> Are you ssh-ed into Axis?
[20:03:49] <MrFluffy> yes
[20:04:00] <MrFluffy> I have a ssh -XYA session into it
[20:04:11] <andypugh> Press spindle-colockwise then spindle +?
[20:04:29] <andypugh> That should set motion.spindle-on even if not homed
[20:05:36] <andypugh> (I dont know how you are meant to configure an externally speed-controlled spindle)
[20:06:24] <andypugh> But AIUI you need S > 0 to set motion.spindle-on
[20:06:58] <andypugh> But, anyway, I need to sleep even if it is only 0145 here.
[20:07:06] <MrFluffy> Spindle-freq is 5201, spindle-enable is true, spindle-cw is true, spindle-at-speed is true, spindle-out is false
[20:07:54] <furrywolf> andy: that video looks rather sexist.
[20:44:47] <malcom2073> started de-rusting the mill: https://scontent-lga.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xpa1/t31.0-8/11082257_1033337130014001_5306571967087362991_o.jpg
[20:45:34] <malcom2073> Also found out, the servos are brushed DC servos, which counterdicts what I thought the drivers were
[20:58:21] <MrFluffy> 3.30, Its going to be something stupid in the config that I am missing because I am too tired, Ill pick this up in the am. Goodbye all.
[21:41:08] <furrywolf> I decided to cut off the diseased branch from my lemon... it was a pretty major one. bleh.
[21:41:25] <furrywolf> I cut off the smaller branches from it and will see if they clone, so at least it wouldn't be a total waste.
[21:42:59] <furrywolf> I've had exactly zero luck cloning it in the past, however.
[21:46:14] <LeelooMinai> You may have a lemon there
[21:46:44] <furrywolf> LemonooMinai: ha ha.
[22:27:27] <zeeshan> http://i.imgur.com/BlOBRko.jpg
[22:27:29] <zeeshan> my 2 babies
[22:28:29] <zeeshan> DIAMOND core technology
[22:28:32] <zeeshan> whatever the heck that is
[22:28:32] <zeeshan> lol
[22:29:14] <zeeshan> furrywolf: you got a lemon tree?
[22:29:15] <ffurrywol> for what?
[22:29:20] <zeeshan> the mig 180c
[22:29:26] <zeeshan> http://i.imgur.com/bKKOf9X.jpg
[22:29:37] <zeeshan> http://i.imgur.com/vQvhOp7.jpg
[22:29:38] <zeeshan> first mig weld
[22:29:39] <zeeshan> lol
[22:29:40] <ffurrywol> yes
[22:29:50] <zeeshan> cool man, i planted one last year
[22:29:55] <ffurrywol> sounds like marketing. lol
[22:29:57] <zeeshan> i dont think itll give fruit for another 3-4 years
[22:30:02] <zeeshan> yea
[22:30:07] <zeeshan> its prolly one fancy capacitor added
[22:30:10] <zeeshan> and BAM diamond technology!
[22:35:54] <ffurrywol> I might have to give up on internet usage tonight.
[22:36:19] <ffurrywol> connection sucking worse than usual
[22:36:19] <ffurrywol> probably too many people using it
[22:36:19] <zeeshan> dont let the internet rule you!
[22:42:47] <ffurrywol> I've been looking for a TIG setup for a while, but they're always too much money.
[22:43:15] <zeeshan> fuck tig
[22:43:18] <zeeshan> mig is so much easier
[22:43:30] <zeeshan> but if you really want pretty welds, tig is the way to go
[22:43:33] <zeeshan> and i guess for aluminum
[22:43:51] <CaptHindsight> zeeshan: do you guys have small 4cyl diesels like the ones in Europe?
[22:44:08] <zeeshan> no
[22:44:13] <ffurrywol> I have three mig welders (one of which works!) and a mig wire feeder for my two stick supplies... obviously I like mig. but I have a project that will need lots of aluminum welding.
[22:44:25] <zeeshan> and when i say mig
[22:44:30] <zeeshan> i mean mig, not fluxcore bs
[22:44:48] <zeeshan> fcaw
[22:44:57] <ffurrywol> fluxcore is not mig.
[22:45:04] <zeeshan> some people call fluxcore mig
[22:45:16] <ffurrywol> some people smoke crack. your point?
[22:45:45] <CaptHindsight> do they smoke fluxcore?
[22:45:46] <zeeshan> unfortgunately theres more people that call fluxcore mig than people that smoke crack
[22:45:46] <zeeshan> :)
[22:46:49] <ffurrywol> actually, I suspect more people smoke crack than have ever used a welder, or know what mig or fluxcore is.
[22:48:47] <zeeshan> CaptHindsight: i think in the next 10 years youll see more diesels
[22:48:55] <zeeshan> a lot of american companies have diesel engines
[22:49:00] <zeeshan> that have been coming out in modern cars
[22:49:04] <ffurrywol> I want a subaru diesel.
[22:49:07] <zeeshan> and we still have a lot of vw
[22:49:37] <ffurrywol> it beats every other small diesel, and gets put in a good vehicle, not a crap vw or us-made car. :)
[22:51:01] <ffurrywol> if you want a truck, but american. if you want a car, buy japanese. if you want to spend all your money on repairs, buy german.
[22:51:10] <ffurrywol> s/but/buy
[22:51:26] <roycroft> my american-made vw diesel is a great car
[22:51:28] <roycroft> i love it
[22:51:59] <zeeshan> furry subaru diesel
[22:51:59] <zeeshan> wut
[22:52:33] <roycroft> the problem with diesel cars in this country is convincing the public that today's diesels are not like the old diesels
[22:52:56] <roycroft> people think they're noisy, smelly, and vibrate a lot
[22:52:56] * ffurrywol waits for roy's car to need an engine (which vw will blame on you), or other stupid failure
[22:53:07] <zeeshan> roycroft: they still are
[22:53:07] <zeeshan> loll
[22:53:08] <roycroft> i have almost 200k miles on it
[22:53:17] <roycroft> the engine is finally broken in :)
[22:53:18] <zeeshan> the only reason theyre not as bad is all the exhaust treatment
[22:53:23] <ffurrywol> zeeshan: subaru sells a nice diesel in europe. it's small, light, 155hp, 280ftlbs, 50-60mpg.
[22:53:42] <roycroft> modern diesel engines have a pre-ignition chamber that smooths out the engine
[22:53:50] <roycroft> makeing it more quiet and lessening the vibration
[22:54:00] <ffurrywol> and that's 50-60mpg in an all-wheel-drive station wagon or small SUV, not 2-wheel-drive econoblob.
[22:54:02] <zeeshan> they still are a crap polluter
[22:54:08] <zeeshan> you need soot filters
[22:54:12] <roycroft> i burn biodiesel in my car, so it hardly pollutes at all because of that
[22:54:14] <zeeshan> urea addition
[22:54:16] <zeeshan> etc
[22:54:29] <roycroft> but european diesel cars beat california emissions standards
[22:54:41] <roycroft> yes, there's a lot of exhaust voodoo that they need to make them burn clean
[22:54:44] <zeeshan> what im getting at is high maintenance
[22:54:45] <roycroft> but they burn clean these days
[22:54:58] <ffurrywol> roycroft: you must have an old one, which means that rather than engines failing due to oil sludge, you just put around going 45mph up hills.
[22:55:09] <roycroft> it's a tdi
[22:55:10] <ffurrywol> s/put/putt
[22:55:21] <zeeshan> vw tdi is a good engnine
[22:55:31] <roycroft> yes it is
[22:55:43] <roycroft> my old rabbit was pre-tdi
[22:55:49] <zeeshan> one of buddies cars has 500,000 km on it
[22:55:49] <roycroft> that is the car that went putt-putt up the hills
[22:55:52] <roycroft> and down the hills :)
[22:56:00] <zeeshan> 310k miles
[22:56:03] <roycroft> but i also drive vw buses
[22:56:13] <roycroft> so i'm pretty used to putt-putt
[22:56:20] <roycroft> and it's fine
[22:56:28] <roycroft> life is too short to be in a hurry
[22:56:35] <zeeshan> haha
[22:56:38] <ffurrywol> which go 45mph while leaving a blue smoke cloud? :P
[22:56:44] <zeeshan> i need a peppy car for a daily
[22:56:48] <zeeshan> cant deal with a slow thing
[22:57:24] <ffurrywol> zeeshan: a relative just got a wrx... it's quite zippy.
[22:57:24] <zeeshan> id drive a ka20a2 in a civic hatch back
[22:57:30] <zeeshan> before driving a damn diesel car
[22:57:52] <zeeshan> ffurrywol: its a hell of a lot better than the eclipse i was driving
[22:58:02] <zeeshan> 4 door, comfy, quiet, zippy
[22:58:17] <ffurrywol> I'd stick a diesel in my subaru if they weren't so expensive to import.
[22:59:41] <ffurrywol> the subaru diesel is supposed to be adequately powered, but not race-car speed. 155hp isn't bad.
[23:00:51] <ffurrywol> the car I'd put it in only has 83hp stock, so it'd be a definite upgrade. :P
[23:02:14] <zeeshan> is it a regular engine
[23:02:17] <zeeshan> or boxer style
[23:02:23] <ffurrywol> I put a 135hp gas motor in it instead
[23:02:24] <ffurrywol> boxer
[23:02:27] <zeeshan> oh fuck
[23:02:27] <zeeshan> lool
[23:02:44] <ffurrywol> 155hp, only weighs 230lbs complete. not bad for a diesel.
[23:02:52] <ffurrywol> the boxer is very compact.
[23:03:30] <zeeshan> bs
[23:03:34] <zeeshan> its low cog
[23:03:36] <zeeshan> thats about it
[23:03:48] <furrywolf> it's also short. only two cylinders long.
[23:03:55] <zeeshan> its wide!
[23:04:03] <furrywolf> and short the other way too. only one cylinder high.
[23:04:19] <furrywolf> fortunately cars tend to be wide too, so it's an excellent fit. :P
[23:04:24] <zeeshan> haha
[23:04:29] <zeeshan> like my v8!
[23:04:32] <zeeshan> excellent FIT!!!!
[23:04:40] <zeeshan> cant even make ap roper manifold!!
[23:04:41] <zeeshan> :{
[23:04:50] <furrywolf> lol
[23:05:01] <zeeshan> i like the boxer way more than a rotary
[23:05:09] <zeeshan> but i still like a regular inline engine
[23:05:12] <zeeshan> even more than a v8..
[23:05:19] <furrywolf> somehow subaru has no problem fitting turbos and brake boosters in their cars, so clearly the boxer is more compact than v. :P
[23:05:21] <zeeshan> its so simple to work on!!!
[23:05:30] <zeeshan> haha furrywolf
[23:05:34] <zeeshan> btw i bolted the brake booster back on
[23:05:48] <zeeshan> there is enough room between the theoretical manifold
[23:05:50] <zeeshan> and frame rail
[23:06:07] <zeeshan> just had to brain storm
[23:06:21] <furrywolf> a relative is putting a 6-cyl boxer in his car... now that's causing space issues. mostly length.
[23:06:42] <zeeshan> from like a porsche?
[23:06:51] <zeeshan> thats the only car i know of that has a 6 cyl boxer
[23:07:07] <Cromaglious> subaru also does a 6cyl boxer
[23:07:14] <furrywolf> no, a fancier subaru
[23:07:41] <furrywolf> the accessory belts are going to be stuffed up in the front grille, and we're mounting the radiator on top of the transmission. :)
[23:08:00] <zeeshan> cnc mill a new radiator!
[23:08:08] <zeeshan> actually on a serious note
[23:08:20] <zeeshan> when space is that constrained a tubular front rad support is usually a good idea
[23:08:34] <zeeshan> ive gained like 4" of engine bay room doing that
[23:08:36] <furrywolf> there's no room for a front radiator.
[23:08:43] <zeeshan> difference between running crappy thin fans
[23:08:48] <zeeshan> or real oem fans with lots of cfm
[23:09:25] <furrywolf> we're mounting it close to horizontal (slight angle for airflow and burping) on top of the tranny, with a pair of fans sucking the air through it then blowing it down either side of the tranny.
[23:09:46] <zeeshan> wat
[23:09:49] <zeeshan> rad on top of trans?
[23:09:55] <Cromaglious> I know several 6cyl dual overhead cam turbo subaru motors in varyeze rutan flyers
[23:10:36] <furrywolf> Cromaglious: ssssh! if you mention subaru-powered aircraft, ssi will show up and talk about how evil he thinks they are.
[23:10:58] <furrywolf> zeeshan: got to stick it somewhere!
[23:11:07] <Cromaglious> top tank is at the top back of the engine compartment
[23:11:12] <zeeshan> hehe
[23:11:16] <zeeshan> REAR mount radiator!
[23:11:19] <zeeshan> in the trunk!
[23:11:47] <furrywolf> we've dropped the engine and tranny crossmembers 4", so there's a good amount of room between the top of the bellhousing and the hood, more than enough for an angled radiator.
[23:11:50] <furrywolf> s/4"/3"
[23:12:17] <furrywolf> Cromaglious: yep. filling it will require a bendy funnel.
[23:12:25] <XXCoder> home, I am
[23:12:38] <XXCoder> van did very well, hauling heavy load home
[23:13:26] <furrywolf> he's trying to decide if he's going na or turbo... na is 230hp...
[23:14:11] <Cromaglious> furrywolf, nice, or using a remote top tank.. ala Cadillac deville
[23:14:24] <XXCoder> jhow goes things here
[23:14:30] <zeeshan> flat6
[23:14:32] <zeeshan> and only 230hp
[23:14:32] <zeeshan> wut!
[23:15:01] <Cromaglious> which body?? forrester or legacy?
[23:15:01] <zeeshan> furrywolf: as much as i love turbos
[23:15:06] <zeeshan> if it was a street car you dont wanna work on a lot
[23:15:09] <zeeshan> i'd stay away from em
[23:15:14] <furrywolf> Cromaglious: leone. (early '80s)
[23:15:37] <Cromaglious> I'm gonna have to look that one up
[23:16:09] <zeeshan> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B7IXW9Alzkc
[23:16:11] <zeeshan> hmm interesting
[23:16:13] <zeeshan> ive never seen this
[23:16:39] <furrywolf> Cromaglious: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Subaru_1983_4X4_My_First_Car.jpg
[23:17:37] <Cromaglious> hehe GL never knew the official name... I had one
[23:17:54] <furrywolf> I don't think they ever had a name in the US.
[23:18:01] <zeeshan> furrywolf: what got you into subies?
[23:18:04] <XXCoder> turbo power
[23:18:09] <Cromaglious> just a trim level I had a GL
[23:18:18] <furrywolf> zeeshan: they're the least-crap of all the cars I've worked on. heh.
[23:22:10] <furrywolf> the early '80s ones were built to be very easy to work on, just in case they ever did break... my favorite example is the fuel pump is mounted under the car on a hinged panel with curly hoses. to change the fuel pump, you onbolt the panel, and it hinges down, so you can access it from the side of the car instead of needing to go under the car. not that they fail often - I've only ever seen one bad one, and it still pumped, just leaked
[23:22:34] <XXCoder> lol I remember this datsun car
[23:22:42] <XXCoder> starter was HELL to get to
[23:23:10] <zeeshan> mitsus are easy to work on too :)
[23:23:21] <XXCoder> I probably turned it in nonecludian directions to get in lol
[23:23:29] <XXCoder> *and out
[23:23:41] <furrywolf> they have 4x4 (with low range!), 4-wheel independent suspension, the engine is mounted the proper way around, all parts are easy to access (except the heater core, but they made it out of thick enough brass they never leak),...
[23:23:53] <furrywolf> I can change the starter on my subaru in 5 minutes. :)
[23:24:04] <furrywolf> heh, I changed the distributor in 5 minutes a couple weeks ago!
[23:24:36] <roycroft> my car is 15 years old and i've never had to change the starter
[23:24:42] <furrywolf> the upper bushings were worn out and it was hitting the sensor
[23:24:45] <XXCoder> mecury sable 1988 while awesome car, has insanely hard stuff to access
[23:24:55] <XXCoder> but then it has 2 ton truck engine in sedan
[23:25:13] <zeeshan> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D8ZIzQWB0zM
[23:25:14] <zeeshan> wow
[23:25:20] <zeeshan> this guy laid a shitload of body filler
[23:25:21] <zeeshan> hahaha
[23:25:29] <furrywolf> ... sables do not have truck engines. you have to get the ford full-size platform (crown vic, mustang, etc) to get truck engines.
[23:25:33] <zeeshan> ive never seen someone put that much filler
[23:25:43] <XXCoder> furrywolf: 3.8l
[23:25:50] <Cromaglious> we had a sable... developed rod knock... donated it
[23:25:59] <jdh> https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-EfkEcqc_82Y/Ubfn9g_AGoI/AAAAAAAAYG8/DaNCt-DeobE/w871-h653-no/ells1280.jpg
[23:25:59] <XXCoder> largest engine I ever saw in sedan
[23:26:02] <zeeshan> his whole door is green!
[23:26:06] <jdh> opinions on that weld failure?
[23:26:07] <furrywolf> XXCoder: that's not a truck engine. that's a compact truck engine.
[23:26:23] <furrywolf> XXCoder: ford put the 460 (7.5L) in sedans. that's a truck engine.
[23:26:33] <XXCoder> compact truck engine? hmm yea makes sense. never heard of that
[23:27:00] <Cromaglious> 460 is a car engine. Y block's are truck engines
[23:27:02] <XXCoder> zeeshan: springs not a door?
[23:27:12] <zeeshan> ?
[23:27:16] <Cromaglious> 352, 428, ...
[23:27:23] <Cromaglious> 360
[23:27:31] <furrywolf> Cromaglious: my friend's truck with a 460 will pop wheelies if you have too much crap in the bed.
[23:27:35] <XXCoder> you said whole door is green with that link but it sure arent showing pic of door?
[23:27:58] <zeeshan> w/ the bondo
[23:28:02] <zeeshan> look at the end of the video 30min
[23:28:13] <Cromaglious> my pops' '72 short bed with a 360 would pop wheelies with 900# over the back axle
[23:28:15] <XXCoder> oh someday linked pic not you lol
[23:28:18] <furrywolf> jdh: "made in china"?
[23:28:28] <XXCoder> zeeshan: se what happens after 3 hours driving LOL
[23:28:41] <jdh> furrywolf: "made in america"
[23:28:47] <XXCoder> looking
[23:28:55] * furrywolf doesn't believe the sticker
[23:29:06] <XXCoder> furrywolf: its true. sticker is made in america
[23:29:14] <Cromaglious> hmmm legacy nd outbacks could be gotten with a 3.0L H6
[23:29:28] <zeeshan> furrywolf: over load
[23:29:29] <zeeshan> er
[23:29:31] <zeeshan> jdh overload
[23:29:59] <XXCoder> zeeshan: that seems to be sparky green paint
[23:30:01] <zeeshan> thats a good weld
[23:30:07] <jdh> yeah, terrible material choice.
[23:30:21] <furrywolf> I bought an extension for my sprayer today. it says something like "Made in the USA with foreign components". aka "we screwed it together here".
[23:30:26] <zeeshan> jdh: its a bike
[23:30:31] <zeeshan> they are trying to make it light
[23:30:48] <zeeshan> did you hit something hard?
[23:31:05] <jdh> not mine... it was 11 years old though
[23:31:09] <furrywolf> at least it's not as bad as leatherman, where the factory in mexico was stamping USA into the forgings. :)
[23:31:12] <zeeshan> dude
[23:31:12] <zeeshan> wait
[23:31:18] <zeeshan> i wasnt looking at pic right
[23:31:27] <zeeshan> i was looking at the crack at the top right
[23:31:34] <jdh> the crack is fine
[23:31:34] <zeeshan> thats a weld failure
[23:31:40] <jdh> the weld separated
[23:31:43] <zeeshan> not enough penetration
[23:31:56] <zeeshan> you can actually see how it seperated
[23:32:02] <jdh> looks like almost no penetration
[23:32:04] <zeeshan> @ the weld penetration area
[23:33:01] <zeeshan> that looks like a very expensive bike :p
[23:33:02] <toastydeath> could also be fatigue from thermal hardening
[23:33:03] <zeeshan> i see carbon fiber
[23:33:16] <zeeshan> toastydeath: you can see there isnt enough penetration
[23:33:25] <zeeshan> if there was it shoulda seperated from the tube
[23:33:47] <jdh> I would expect it to crack where that piece is missing
[23:34:06] <furrywolf> I suspect that's pretty common. you're welding thin-wall tube to a thick machined part. it's hard to get good penetration on the thick part without burning through the thin part.
[23:34:38] <jdh> this was a boutique, lightweight bike
[23:34:45] <furrywolf> A skilled welder can do it, but assembley lines aren't always staffed with those.
[23:34:55] <renesis> its like it was sitting in a cup locating feature and that feature ripped off
[23:35:04] <zeeshan> furrywolf: thats why you concentrate the weld puddle at the thick part
[23:35:18] <renesis> i think the weld is meant to hold it onto that projecting feature
[23:35:39] * furrywolf tries to figure out how "boutique" applies to bicycles
[23:35:58] <renesis> low prooduction run, way more attention during fab, cost to match
[23:35:58] <jdh> handmade to order, mostly
[23:35:59] <toastydeath> i do not see the signs of penetration failure on that seperation
[23:36:52] <furrywolf> it could have been a fatigue crack... how's the geometry? some suspension designs put non-tensile stresses on components.
[23:36:52] <toastydeath> i do, however, see the characteristic surface of a crack that propigated around the haz
[23:36:58] <renesis> i think the locating feature should be bigger and the edges mating the cup to the machine part should be radiused
[23:37:32] <toastydeath> that is a slightly concave break, away from the weld puddle, uniform around a large portion of the weld
[23:37:36] <renesis> tight fit in there
[23:37:41] <zeeshan> from that non close up pic
[23:37:57] <zeeshan> i dont see the typical fast fracture
[23:38:03] <zeeshan> you'd see after initiatiation and propogation
[23:38:05] <toastydeath> there is also good wetting on the weld bead
[23:38:17] <renesis> the weld bead way sexy
[23:38:17] <zeeshan> it all looks like it was fast fractured
[23:39:16] <furrywolf> if you want fun with fatigue cracks, work on '80s ford trucks. :)
[23:39:29] <renesis> ew ford
[23:39:52] <XXCoder> fix or repair daily
[23:40:05] <renesis> srsly
[23:40:17] <toastydeath> a crack between two solid phases does not look the same as it does in a homogenous material
[23:40:23] <furrywolf> '80s and '90s ford trucks are actually pretty reliable.
[23:40:30] <jdh> you should see the beads on my Ti bikes
[23:40:54] <furrywolf> I don't know about where you are, but around here, a surprisingly large number of them are still on the road, with 200-300k+ miles on them.
[23:40:58] <toastydeath> either way, that's what my money is on - it looks exactly like every other fatigue crack from the phase interface from not heat treating a weld
[23:41:26] <zeeshan> toastydeath: thats a big problem
[23:41:31] <zeeshan> that bothers me so much
[23:41:36] <zeeshan> especiallly with car fabrication
[23:41:42] <zeeshan> these guys complain about how their stainless manifold cracked
[23:41:47] <zeeshan> yet you can still see the color from the welds
[23:41:50] <toastydeath> hahaha
[23:41:54] <zeeshan> guess what, no post weld heat treatment
[23:41:57] <zeeshan> drives me insane
[23:42:16] <zeeshan> they dont understand that you got all the sudden tiny grains
[23:42:16] <XXCoder> furrywolf: yeah gonna fix em often but damn do they last
[23:42:20] <zeeshan> and long ass grains surrounding them
[23:42:22] <XXCoder> my bro has 1969 truck
[23:43:36] <furrywolf> fix or repair daily... found on road dead... don't forget the explorer with firestone tires - flips on rapid deflation. :)
[23:43:52] <zeeshan> is cardboard good enough
[23:43:57] <zeeshan> to stop weld splatter on something icare about
[23:44:01] <zeeshan> ie the ways of my lathe!
[23:44:10] <toastydeath> lol i wouldn't
[23:44:19] <zeeshan> cardboard with aluminum foil? :D
[23:44:26] <furrywolf> generally you don't use flammable materials to stop weld splatter. it'll stop the first splatter, but not the second bit...
[23:44:45] <zeeshan> i dont have any leather aprons
[23:44:47] <toastydeath> http://www.harborfreight.com/4-ft-x-6-ft-fiberglass-welding-blanket-67833.html
[23:44:49] <zeeshan> or fiberglass blankets
[23:45:01] <zeeshan> nice dude
[23:45:14] <furrywolf> heh, reminds me of a time someone I knew was using an oxytorch for some cutting, and the slag lit the ground on fire. :)
[23:45:15] <zeeshan> youre the man
[23:45:45] <zeeshan> http://www.princessauto.com/en/detail/8-x-8-ft-welding-blanket/A-p8485278e
[23:45:56] <furrywolf> the area he was working was filled-in swamp... apparantly at one point someone had used a layer of pulped newspaper as fill... which burns and smoulders quite well...
[23:47:19] <furrywolf> jdh: is it one of the bikes that has a pivot mounted halfway up the seat tube, and which bends the seat tube forwards, rather than applying pure tension/compression to it?
[23:47:38] <furrywolf> every time I see one of those I cringe, knowing that that's now how you want to apply force to thinwall tube...
[23:49:45] <furrywolf> it's great fun to be cutting, then realize "oh fuck, we just lit the ground on fire... and it's burning downwards!"
[23:56:47] <furrywolf> grrrrr. I'm getting annoyed at ebay sellers lately. four of the recent items I've bought have been wrong or defective. one was the wrong item, only got a 50% refund. two defective lights, the sellers are both trying to give me partial refunds and telling me how I get the keep the item (joy! a burnt-out LED light bulb does me a lot of good!). and now the defective laptop battery, the seller is saying I have to ship it back, at my ex
[23:58:20] <renesis> so file paypal disputes, not as described
[23:58:37] <furrywolf> ebay won't process disputes if you pay as a paypal guest.
[23:58:49] <renesis> you dont have a paypal acct?
[23:59:02] <furrywolf> my paypal account got disabled a couple years ago.
[23:59:57] <furrywolf> after being a member since 2003 or something like that, they suddenly decided to demand I send them copies of my social security card, driver's license, bank statements, and utility bills, to prove who I am. that's after having 100% feedback for ten years. I told them to go to hell.