#linuxcnc | Logs for 2015-03-08

[00:03:54] <tjtr33> bob i like how the ring is like using a DTI and a cylinder square.
[00:03:55] <tjtr33> i dont know how accurate it is, but the geometry says 2 Z levels can prove the Z travel is aligned to the Cylinder Square.
[00:04:05] <tjtr33> bobo ^^
[00:04:12] <Crom> laser center finder that's NICE, I also like the camera
[00:12:37] <MacGalempsy> anyone else putting that laser on their build list?
[00:19:57] <bobo_> MacGalempsy laser center finder ---- look in the comments section , Gelbart has a link to drawings
[00:20:13] <Crom> Mac Definately here
[00:22:25] <bobo_> Crom did you see Gelbart has a link to drawings of laser center finder
[00:25:43] <Crom> not yet working on a web site for my brother
[00:52:47] <Cromaglious> downloading now
[00:59:54] <MacGalempsy> anyone running a potentiometer into their 7i77?
[01:00:14] <MacGalempsy> I have tried to loadrt abs count=2
[01:00:52] <MacGalempsy> net panel_fro abs.0.in <= hm2_5i25.0.7i77.0.0.input-01
[01:01:07] <MacGalempsy> and the eroor comes back as the pin is of type bit
[01:01:26] <MacGalempsy> how do I set the pin as a float?
[01:19:26] <bobo_> so where is archivist when MacGalempsy needs info
[01:20:14] <MacGalempsy> ikr?
[01:27:12] <MacGalempsy> bobo_: I did make it pretty far today without any complex questions
[01:30:18] <archivist> bobo_, hiding in bed
[01:31:47] <bobo_> I am just trying to pick up some understanding of linuxcnc , so any of the questions are a resourse ---- for me and many others ---- now and in the logs
[01:33:29] <Cromaglious> hmm seeing something about analogin
[01:33:35] <archivist> bobo_, like I started back around 2006
[01:35:07] <Cromaglious> http://emc-users.narkive.com/w2KLueZA/loadrt-abs-component-not-working
[01:35:29] <Cromaglious> maybe that has something useful
[01:35:36] <MacGalempsy> thanks, reading now
[01:36:07] <archivist> point him at the manual for the pin he wants to read :)
[01:36:53] <archivist> type errors speak volumes about what the error is
[01:36:54] <MacGalempsy> I looked at the manual, it says that pin 0-2 are able to read 32 bit signals in data modes 1 and 2
[01:38:02] <archivist> did you set that mode, what type of signal is that mode
[01:38:17] * archivist not having a manual open
[01:41:01] <MacGalempsy> good point on the mode.
[01:53:30] <Cromaglious> MacGalempsy, Any headway?
[01:54:10] <archivist> 7i77 has a few doc bugs
[01:54:34] <MacGalempsy> kind of. I am going through to see if running the 7i77 in an different mode will mess anything up
[01:55:08] <archivist> MacGalempsy, keep doing that as that was something I thought about too
[01:55:43] <MacGalempsy> i am a little confused about th eline sserial_port_0=300xxx
[01:56:01] <Cromaglious> newsig e0.temp.meas float; net e0.temp.meas <= Therm.temp0; from https://github.com/modmaker/machinekit/blob/master/configs/ARM/BeagleBone/BeBoPr-Bridge/velocity-extruding/lineardelta-vel-extr.hal
[01:56:22] <MacGalempsy> when runnin pncconf it shows 0=000000
[01:56:52] <Cromaglious> To enable the MPG inputs set the mode to 3. Find sserial_port_0=000xxxxx in your main hal file and change it to sserial_port_0=300xxx.
[01:57:24] <Cromaglious> http://gnipsel.com/linuxcnc/configs/7i77.html
[01:58:23] <MacGalempsy> that is what I was going to use those for a mpg, but that is much later down the line
[01:59:16] <Cromaglious> http://linuxcnc.org/lucid/index.php/english/forum/27-driver-boards/27730-how-to-wire-mpg-on-7i77?limitstart=0
[03:00:38] <Cromaglious> I don't know what I'm finding, only it's kinda close to what your asking
[03:00:45] <MacGalempsy> its cool
[03:00:53] <MacGalempsy> thanks for the effort
[03:01:14] <MacGalempsy> I have these two pots on the panel, so I was trying to read them for the fro and sso
[03:01:33] <MacGalempsy> not a biggy, I should probably continue finishing the wiring anyways.
[03:04:07] <Cromaglious> then I think this page is closest to what your looking for http://linuxcnc.org/lucid/emc2/index.php/english/forum/39-pncconf/18519-7i77-testers-wanted?start=140
[03:05:05] <Cromaglious> You change the "sserial_port_0=SOMETHING" parameter in the firmware config line at the top of the .ini file to sserial_port_0=M00xxx" ; where M is the mode for the 7I77 field I/O (0,1,2,3) ; Note that the MPG option (mode 3) was added recently and may not be present on your 7I77
[03:05:10] <MacGalempsy> gotcha
[03:06:14] <Cromaglious> look for the yellow boxes
[03:06:30] <Cromaglious> 1/6 of the way down the page
[03:07:31] <Cromaglious> 000xxxx doesn't do analog, where 100xxxx and 200xxx and 300xxx does
[03:10:58] <Cromaglious> google search was "linuxcnc hal reading a potentemetor with 7i77"
[03:11:36] <Cromaglious> it corrected my spelling on potentiometer
[03:15:12] <zarra> hello folk!
[03:15:20] <MacGalempsy> :)
[03:15:36] <Cromaglious> hiya zarra
[03:16:06] <Cromaglious> MacGalempsy, think that got it? the M00xxx ? instead of 000xxx
[03:16:16] <zarra> i have ubuntu 14.04 install, i am looking for its documentation of installing
[03:16:25] <zarra> can you give me a good start?
[03:16:27] <Cromaglious> M being 1, 2, or 3
[03:16:39] <Cromaglious> zarra running Linuxcnc?
[03:16:56] <zarra> not yet
[03:17:01] <zarra> how to install?
[03:17:14] <MacGalempsy> Cromaglious: I need to take a break. my eyes are crossing
[03:17:19] <Deejay> moin
[03:17:31] <Cromaglious> go to linuxcnc and download the ubuntu 10.04 linuxcnc iso and install that instead
[03:17:37] <MacGalempsy> zarra: go to the linuxcnc and get a copy of the livecd and install it from there
[03:17:58] <Cromaglious> then you'll have a running linuxcnc, then carefully upgrade from there
[03:18:13] <Cromaglious> I don't know if linuxcnc runs under ubuntu 14.xx yet
[03:18:30] <zarra> ok
[03:18:36] <zarra> let me try
[03:18:55] <Cromaglious> I went thru 4 installs before I figured that out
[03:21:10] <zarra> so i need ubuntu 10.xx?
[03:21:33] <Cromaglious> 10.04
[03:21:48] <zarra> ok
[03:22:11] <Cromaglious> no you need the linuxcnc.org ubuntu cd image which is based on ubuntu 10.04
[03:22:35] <MrSunshine> havent linuxcnc gone from ubuntu now ?
[03:22:42] <MrSunshine> as the last install i did atleast was debian
[03:23:09] <Cromaglious> http://www.linuxcnc.org/iso/ubuntu-10.04-linuxcnc3-i386.iso
[03:24:03] <zarra> Cromaglious: thanks
[03:24:10] <zarra> downloading it
[03:25:32] <Cromaglious> 10.04 is actually linuxcnc 2.5, but it'll upgrade with a little help
[03:26:10] <Cromaglious> so once your up and running come one back and someone can help you configure update manager
[03:26:45] <zarra> ok
[03:27:28] <zarra> can I see source codeafter this installation?
[03:27:49] <bobo_> zarra is your computer a 32 or 64 bit mach
[03:32:38] <Cromaglious> http://itslinux.org/pics/linuxcncsource.png
[03:33:28] <Cromaglious> the base 2.6 is the ones you wanna add to ubuntu software center/upgrade manager
[03:35:20] <zarra> ok
[03:37:06] <Cromaglious> the apt add line is: deb http://linuxcnc.org/ lucid base 2.6 and also: deb-src http://linuxcnc.org/ lucid base 2.6
[03:37:49] <zarra> how to add this?
[03:38:26] <zarra> got it
[03:40:06] <zarra> what the above two lines will do?
[03:40:52] <Cromaglious> in x windows you'll run ubuntu software center -> edit -> software sources -> other software sources, then hit the add button and type 'deb http://linuxcnc.org/ lucid base 2.6'
[03:41:32] <Cromaglious> hit enter, then hit add again and type 'deb-src http://linuxcnc.org/ lucid base 2.6' and hit enter
[03:43:07] <Cromaglious> then hit close, then you'll be back at ubuntu software center, you can then search for linuxcnc in the search box after it updates the sources...
[03:43:48] <Cromaglious> there is also a tab in edit -> software source -> update
[03:44:03] <zarra> updating...
[03:46:19] <Cromaglious> Linuxcnc Stepconf Wizard for setting up with a stepper motor setup
[03:46:30] <Cromaglious> in applications -> CNC
[03:47:35] <zarra> ok
[03:47:49] <Cromaglious> ok nite nite time for me... Mac you get any further?
[03:48:23] <Cromaglious> MacGalempsy, Boo! You get any further?
[03:48:39] <zarra> thanks dude
[03:48:43] <Cromaglious> I forget to use the full name so it hopefully beeps
[03:48:52] <zarra> i will install and will came back here
[03:48:54] <Cromaglious> zarra it's what we do
[03:49:24] <zarra> Cromaglious: ok
[03:49:26] <Cromaglious> I just came back to linux after not running it for 10 years just for linuxcnc
[03:49:39] <Cromaglious> though I did keep my domain itslinux.org
[03:49:50] <zarra> oh
[03:50:11] <zarra> what os you use?
[03:50:50] <zarra> Cromaglious: what OS you use?
[03:50:52] <Cromaglious> 3 machines ubuntu 10.04, 2 windows 7, 5 windows XP, one macos 6.xx
[03:51:12] <zarra> great!
[03:51:17] <Cromaglious> I think it's maxos 6.xx... it's a 512
[03:51:26] <zarra> Cromaglious: Are the core dev?
[03:51:47] <Cromaglious> core dev?
[03:52:00] <Cromaglious> oh the dev is the sources
[03:52:35] <Cromaglious> getting the linuxcnc iso is best since it comes with the real time kernel ready to go
[03:52:48] <zarra> oh! my typo
[03:53:16] <zarra> Cromaglious: I mean, are you the core developer here?
[03:53:39] <Cromaglious> nah, just an old fart who is trying to run it
[03:53:55] <zarra> -.-
[03:54:54] <Cromaglious> in 2000 I got hit in the head by a thug at my stepdaughters house and I haven't programmed on anything over 300 line since
[03:55:28] <MrSunshine> ouch
[03:57:36] <Cromaglious> I used to hang out at Linux Care in San Francisco, lilo, Rob Levin, who created freenode was a friend of mine.
[03:58:33] <bobo_> bbl
[03:58:41] <Cromaglious> same here nite nite all
[03:59:10] <zarra> gud nyt
[03:59:12] <zarra> :)
[04:05:07] <Cromaglious> oh just found this before I leave
[04:05:13] <Cromaglious> http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?UpdatingTo2.6
[04:05:55] <Cromaglious> explains updating to ubuntu 12.04 and getting the rtai 3.4.xxx kernel etc...
[04:06:15] <Cromaglious> guess I'll be doing that in a coule of weeks
[04:06:21] <Cromaglious> ok nite nite
[04:06:44] <zarra> ok thanks
[04:11:19] <archivist> or moving to debian :)
[08:23:48] <Loetmichel2> *meh*... i should remember to order my e-cig fluid a bit more early... empty again... and its sunday... *sigh* so i'll be a bit cranky rest of the day...
[08:23:52] <Loetmichel2> mornin btw
[09:07:28] <DaViruz> i caught a stomach flu earlier this week, i'm perfectly recovered now, but what it did was remove any urge i had to smoke, and it hasn't really come back either
[09:07:39] <DaViruz> let's hope it lasts.. :)
[09:11:01] <_methods> they say the actual draw from physical addiction only lasts 3 days
[09:11:18] <_methods> after that is the psychological addiction which is much harder to deal with
[09:11:44] <_methods> s/draw/withdrawal
[09:12:19] <_methods> i'm very glad i quit
[09:13:03] <Loetmichel> i tried multiple times
[09:13:15] <Loetmichel> the nicotine withdrawal is easy.
[09:13:32] <DaViruz> yeah the physical part isn't much of a problem
[09:13:41] <Loetmichel> but the first time i actually got of the glowing thins was when i ordered my first e-cig lst year
[09:14:03] <Loetmichel> <- is now clean of the smoking stuff for about 15 months
[09:14:42] <DaViruz> quitting smoking is wasy, i've done it lot's of times ;)
[09:14:55] <Loetmichel> but still i caught myself a few weeks after the switch to e-cigs standing on the balcony with the ecig and a lighter in my hands ;-)
[09:14:55] <_methods> hahah
[09:15:25] <_methods> yeah i smoked and dipped for almost 30 years
[09:15:46] <_methods> i quit a couple times in there for short periods
[09:16:09] <_methods> but i haven't smoked in about 2 years now
[09:16:38] <Loetmichel> i think its because the e-cig is more or less the same habitus
[09:16:52] <Loetmichel> as in you have something in your hands and draw on it
[09:17:01] <_methods> yeah for me after eating was the worst
[09:17:02] <Loetmichel> so the transistion is much easier
[09:17:07] <_methods> i always used to smoke after meals
[09:17:38] <Loetmichel> and my wife is VERY pleased how i smell now ;-)
[09:17:44] <_methods> hahah
[09:17:48] <_methods> yeah that is a big+
[09:18:55] <Loetmichel> or should i say how i DONT smell now? ;-)
[09:27:47] <Jymmm> Loetmichel: alive
[09:31:58] <Jymmm> Loetmichel: Do either of these look okey to you? http://www.fasttech.com/product/1292300 or http://www.fasttech.com/product/1390605
[09:41:52] <Loetmichel> Jymmm: i have a bunch of the (older version) evods
[09:41:57] <Loetmichel> pretty much ok these
[09:42:09] <Loetmichel> but i upgraded to bigger ones recently
[09:43:05] <Jymmm> Loetmichel: I really have NFC what any of these are; I can't tell what are for eliquids or for oils (pot)
[09:43:09] <Loetmichel> http://www.cyrom.org/palbum/main.php?g2_itemId=14814&g2_imageViewsIndex=1 <- one on the right
[09:43:17] <Jymmm> Loetmichel: I WANT something 18650 based
[09:43:32] <Loetmichel> the evods are AA based
[09:43:35] <Loetmichel> but liion
[09:43:53] <Jymmm> 14450?
[09:43:59] <Loetmichel> yes
[09:44:15] <Loetmichel> http://www.cyrom.org/palbum/main.php?g2_itemId=14886&g2_imageViewsIndex=1
[09:44:33] <Loetmichel> one dismantled Evod battery and an 18650 for size comparsion
[09:45:06] <Jymmm> http://www.fasttech.com/category/0/search/-/p/5/?copper%20mod
[09:45:31] <Jymmm> Loetmichel: I'm confused at what is what here... thread wise
[09:46:14] <Loetmichel> there are only 2 thread types out there
[09:46:49] <Jymmm> 510 http://www.fasttech.com/products/0/10008164/1757809-4nine-style-mechanical-mod
[09:47:17] <Loetmichel> "510" style and the kanger style you see on my battery pic
[09:47:38] <Loetmichel> which can also accomodate 510 style as i thas an innter 510 thread as well on the head
[09:47:58] <Jymmm> ah
[09:48:12] <Loetmichel> http://www.cyrom.org/palbum/main.php?g2_itemId=14583&g2_imageViewsIndex=1
[09:48:16] <Jymmm> Ok, and your are drip based???
[09:48:26] <Loetmichel> no, bottom feed tanks
[09:48:30] <Loetmichel> all of them
[09:48:41] <Jymmm> difference?
[09:48:45] <Loetmichel> i dont like the drip things because of the constant need of refilling
[09:49:13] <Loetmichel> drip ones are only good for a few draws, then you have to drip in a few drops of fluid again
[09:49:47] <Jymmm> wicks are drip based?
[09:50:07] <Loetmichel> the tank style things come in two varieties: top coul with long wicks down into the tank, and bottom coil which have short wicks into the tank at the bottom of the tank
[09:50:39] <Jymmm> ok
[09:50:45] <Jymmm> pros/cons?
[09:50:58] <Loetmichel> http://www.cyrom.org/palbum/main.php?g2_itemId=14697&g2_imageViewsIndex=1 <- Thats a dismantled t3s head, evods work the same way...
[09:51:18] <Loetmichel> both are "bottom coil clearomizer"
[09:51:41] <Loetmichel> because the atomizer coil sits at the bottom opf the tank
[09:51:46] <Jymmm> and rebuildable I assume
[09:51:57] <Loetmichel> with a bit of fidding: yeah
[09:52:16] <Loetmichel> but as the atomizer cartridges cost less than a few bucks: why bother?
[09:53:07] <Jymmm> Seems Logical (RIP )
[09:54:13] <Jymmm> Loetmichel: proo/con of top bottom ?
[09:54:32] <Loetmichel> no idea
[09:54:48] <Loetmichel> i like the bottom coil ones but i think thats just personal preference
[09:54:59] <Jymmm> leaks?
[09:55:18] <Loetmichel> from what i heard the top coil blubber less but tend to have more "dry hits"
[09:55:36] <Loetmichel> the first link you gave were top coils
[09:55:37] <Loetmichel> http://www.fasttech.com/product/1292300
[09:55:40] <Jymmm> blubber ????
[09:55:48] <Loetmichel> you can see the long wichs down the tank
[09:56:16] <Loetmichel> liwuid seeping into the coil chamber an dhten they start to "spitter/blubber" when you draw on it
[09:56:30] <Loetmichel> and you get hopt oil in you mouth instead of vapor
[09:56:52] <Jymmm> ah
[09:58:06] <Jymmm> Loetmichel: What else do/should I know?
[09:58:17] <Loetmichel> not much
[09:58:35] <Loetmichel> i tend to think that a good e-cig should have at least 7W on the coil
[09:58:44] <archivist> dont do it, it is disgusting
[09:58:49] <Loetmichel> anything less will not produce a decent amount of vapor
[09:59:22] <Loetmichel> archivist: imho much less disgusting than actual smoking
[09:59:23] <Jymmm> archivist: I'm trying to quit smoking cigarettes, thus vapoing instead
[09:59:28] <Loetmichel> ... but i may be biased ;-)
[10:00:44] <archivist> mother went into a rage many years ago when I refused to fetch cigs
[10:00:44] <Loetmichel> Jymmm: if you consider buying an ecig which is charged via the 510 thread: buy two at least
[10:01:02] <Loetmichel> because you WILL run into "empty battery" problems otherwise! ;-)
[10:01:29] <Jymmm> Loetmichel: lol, yeah but I can carry spare 18650s =)
[10:01:32] <Loetmichel> main reason why i bought my istick
[10:01:42] <Loetmichel> because its "feedthru"
[10:01:42] <Jymmm> istick?
[10:01:45] <CaptHindsight> patches and gum don't require batteries
[10:02:00] <Loetmichel> http://www.cyrom.org/palbum/main.php?g2_itemId=15365&g2_imageViewsIndex=1
[10:02:19] <Loetmichel> CaptHindsight: parches and gums doesent work so well because of habit
[10:02:31] <Jymmm> gum is nasty
[10:02:41] <Loetmichel> vaping is ne4arly the same habit as smoking, hence its easy to switch
[10:02:41] <Jymmm> patched, not enough flesh =)
[10:02:52] <Loetmichel> gums and patches is as hard as quitting cold
[10:02:54] <CaptHindsight> asparagus nicotine gum
[10:03:07] <Jymmm> CaptHindsight: you buying?
[10:03:31] <Loetmichel> the nicotine addiction is gone in less then a few days anyway
[10:03:37] <Loetmichel> just the habit is hard to deal with
[10:03:57] <Jymmm> CaptHindsight: ...for the next 4-5 years worth?
[10:04:07] <Loetmichel> Jymmm: seen the last pic?
[10:04:10] <Loetmichel> thats an istick
[10:04:22] <CaptHindsight> some people seem to be more addicted to the additives or the menthol in cigs
[10:04:25] <Jymmm> Loetmichel: do you vary the wattage often?
[10:04:26] <Loetmichel> (whit a kanger protank head)
[10:04:37] <Loetmichel> no, i usually have it set to 15W
[10:05:53] <Loetmichel> Jymmm: as you can see: the istick is a feed thru kind of cig
[10:06:00] <Loetmichel> so you can charege while vaping
[10:06:06] <Jymmm> I dont see the "feed thru" prt
[10:06:12] <Jymmm> AH
[10:06:59] <Loetmichel> most of the small cylindrical batterys are charged via the 510 thread
[10:07:06] <Loetmichel> so you can either vape OR charge
[10:07:19] <Jymmm> gotcha
[10:07:19] <Loetmichel> hence the need of at least 2 batterys ;-)
[10:07:43] <Jymmm> what kind of tank is this? http://www.fasttech.com/products/3026/10004705/1483601-k200-variable-voltage-e-cigarette-starter-kit
[10:10:26] <Loetmichel> looks like a bottom coil to me
[10:10:39] <Loetmichel> but can also be a dripper from the looks of it
[10:10:53] <Jymmm> ok
[10:11:34] <Loetmichel> btw: i dont like the steel drip tips at all
[10:11:45] <Jymmm> ???
[10:11:57] <Jymmm> Wheres the switch? http://www.fasttech.com/products/3026/10007410/1622900-y1000-hybrid-mod-starter-kit
[10:11:58] <Loetmichel> but that may have to do with my teeth being mostly amalgam /gold
[10:12:12] <Jymmm> H OK
[10:12:45] * Loetmichel buys plastic drip tips for all his cigs ;-)
[10:12:50] <Jymmm> See, there's a LOT of shit to be aware of =)
[10:13:32] <Jymmm> I don't see how an 18650 could firt in that thing and wheres the button?
[10:15:53] <Loetmichel> hmm, maybe the whole bottom cap is the button?
[10:15:57] <Loetmichel> guessing here...
[10:16:03] <Loetmichel> strange thing that blue one ;-
[10:16:04] <Loetmichel> )
[10:16:19] <Jymmm> Good to know it's just not me then
[10:17:37] <CaptHindsight> https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/voltera/voltera-your-circuit-board-prototyping-machine this won't even ship until September...
[10:18:01] <Loetmichel> CaptHindsight: and even then its totally pointless
[10:18:09] <Loetmichel> takes ages to print a pcb that way
[10:18:26] <Loetmichel> milling or etching it and then soldering parts to it is WAY quicker
[10:18:40] <CaptHindsight> the only thing I see missing from a complete Linuxcnc solution is the software to generate gcode that understands how to place multiple layers
[10:19:45] <CaptHindsight> it's missing metal oxide pastes to directly print resistors
[10:20:00] <CaptHindsight> and dielectrics to print small caps
[10:20:16] <CaptHindsight> Loetmichel: yes, and theirs is also really slow
[10:20:47] <CaptHindsight> and it can't make double sided boards
[10:21:20] <archivist> reading the gerber file is not too hard, what I did back in 2007 in php http://www.archivist.info/pcb/readgerber.php?gerberfile=5370%2F5370-Copper.pho
[10:21:50] <CaptHindsight> funny how their demo for printing solder paste uses a pcb that they didn't print
[10:22:22] <CaptHindsight> https://d15chbti7ht62o.cloudfront.net/assets/003/244/508/f7547375325094d77e6833f15e0fc7aa_large.png?1423249310
[10:22:36] <CaptHindsight> https://d15chbti7ht62o.cloudfront.net/assets/003/243/857/b71082b057f3ca19a5f7d172f0043acd_large.gif?1423241928
[10:22:37] <archivist> hehe
[10:23:13] <Loetmichel> i use my CNC mill to make boards
[10:23:50] <Loetmichel> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jMXxjT4nNxg
[10:23:54] <Loetmichel> works MUCH faster
[10:24:40] <Loetmichel> and not that bad at ALL: http://www.cyrom.org/palbum/main.php?g2_itemId=14507&g2_imageViewsIndex=1
[10:24:41] <archivist> I was going to code an outline gcode but ran out of round tuits
[10:24:49] <Jymmm> Loetmichel: what 1/8" adapter do you use?
[10:24:53] <CaptHindsight> they can print multilayer but parts and pads are only on one side
[10:25:07] <Loetmichel> adapter?
[10:25:19] <CaptHindsight> https://d15chbti7ht62o.cloudfront.net/assets/003/244/519/eaada282e5e75d9c052036bac9ee193d_large.png?1423249434
[10:25:43] <Jymmm> Loetmichel: is that a real chuck in your spondle?
[10:25:48] <Loetmichel> ah
[10:25:48] <Jymmm> spindle
[10:25:52] <Loetmichel> ER11
[10:25:57] <Jymmm> ah
[10:26:00] <Loetmichel> its a chinese 800W watercooled spindle
[10:26:10] <Jymmm> nm
[10:27:14] <Loetmichel> CaptHindsight: i would like to have one of these printers for making custom keyboards tho
[10:27:23] <Jymmm> Loetmichel: I hit a vap shop yesterday and they wanted $80 for soemthing like this http://www.fasttech.com/products/0/10009120/2106901-sir-lancelot-styled-mechanical-mod
[10:27:26] <Loetmichel> if they have a flexible film to print on
[10:28:00] <Loetmichel> Jymmm: looks like bare copper to me
[10:28:08] <Loetmichel> will not stay that pretty for long...
[10:28:20] <Jymmm> heh, yeah
[10:30:55] <CaptHindsight> Loetmichel: synthetic papers or polyester film are easy
[10:32:01] <CaptHindsight> Teslin is easy to punch for through holes or vias to the other side
[10:33:45] <CaptHindsight> Loetmichel: you could use the same router that you use for boards now, you just need some dispensers to swap with the spindle
[10:34:28] <Loetmichel> CaptHindsight: yes, i could
[10:37:22] <CaptHindsight> what's missing is a nice low cost dispenser unless you just use syringes
[10:37:55] <Loetmichel> no, whats missing is the chemicals they use for printing
[10:38:03] <Loetmichel> thats the crux
[10:38:29] <CaptHindsight> I have that
[10:38:36] <Loetmichel> a metal poweder paint that sticks to nearly any surface, dies to nearly 0 ohm and can stand the heat of soldering
[10:38:43] <Loetmichel> dries
[10:39:09] <Loetmichel> AND is easily dispensable
[10:39:17] <CaptHindsight> has anyone used thermoplastic powders vs filament for FDM?
[10:40:39] <CaptHindsight> Loetmichel: yes and no, different binders are used for different substrates, what you might use for teslin is different than what would be used for polyester films
[10:41:39] <CaptHindsight> fluids and pastes for conductors are old hat, there's a ton of patents however
[10:42:14] <CaptHindsight> that's why there aren't commercial desktop systems
[10:43:20] <CaptHindsight> I would not be surprised if Voltera gets some letters from patent holders the same way Form1 did
[10:44:09] <CaptHindsight> have any open source howto projects ever been served with patent notices for posting info?
[10:44:46] <SpeedEvil> Patents already describe how to do a thing.
[10:44:57] <SpeedEvil> Simply republishing that thing is not prohibited.
[10:45:02] <SpeedEvil> Instances of that thing are.
[10:45:28] <CaptHindsight> maybe of the project were to generate revenue
[10:45:33] <CaptHindsight> of/if
[10:46:19] <SpeedEvil> Simple republishing is allowed.
[10:46:26] <SpeedEvil> Distributing patented code probably isn't.
[10:46:57] <CaptHindsight> is it considered circumventing something the same way DeCSS was handled
[10:47:17] <CaptHindsight> or some other legal twist of logic and law
[10:47:19] <SpeedEvil> The whole point of a patent is it's public - you're allowed to republish it
[10:47:40] <CaptHindsight> I understand your point
[10:47:51] <malcom2073> You can distributed code that violates a patent, as long as you're the copyright holder
[10:48:06] <malcom2073> You can't make any money off it, if you do, the patent holder can take you to court
[10:48:18] <SpeedEvil> You are allowed to make a copy of the thing patented, solely to test it works - you can't for example make a bottling machine and then use it to bottle commercially
[10:48:28] <SpeedEvil> And you can't distribute in any way
[10:48:32] <SpeedEvil> (your copy)
[10:48:47] <CaptHindsight> my question is more about strong handed tactics to suppress the sharing of info that plugs several patents together
[10:49:12] <CaptHindsight> has it happened
[10:49:44] <malcom2073> CaptHindsight: Afaik, only when money is involved
[10:50:19] <SpeedEvil> 'info that' ... what do you mean
[10:50:53] <CaptHindsight> say you had a extremely detailed info for making your own iphone for <$100
[10:51:00] <CaptHindsight> Apple would have a fit
[10:51:05] <SpeedEvil> That is protected by copyright.
[10:51:25] <SpeedEvil> And trademarks, and software copyright
[10:51:47] <malcom2073> And to some extent, EULA's
[10:51:52] <SpeedEvil> Also, you can't buy the chips.
[10:51:54] <CaptHindsight> well it's an iphone but the project is called talking bannana
[10:52:07] <CaptHindsight> it's just an example
[10:52:35] <malcom2073> CaptHindsight: You're asking if you print details on how to violate apples patents? That's exactly what patents do
[10:52:39] <CaptHindsight> plus you still need the ios
[10:53:20] <CaptHindsight> no, this is about protecting yourself from legal abuse
[10:53:27] <malcom2073> The only way I've hard of companies going after people (in this case apple), is if someone takes the design and tries to sell/market a product based on it.
[10:53:33] <malcom2073> There's no money in going after people not making any money
[10:53:58] <CaptHindsight> yes, unless it's to protect and trademark or similar
[10:54:07] <CaptHindsight> since they have to or they lose it
[10:54:20] <CaptHindsight> and/a
[10:55:48] <malcom2073> True, but that's trademarks, and typically they'll send you a cease-and-desist before suing you, much cheaper for them
[10:58:43] <CaptHindsight> not sure how much attention it would get anyway if there was a section on the Linuxcnc wiki about printing multilayer PCB's and circuits
[11:02:47] <CaptHindsight> might best to post ghetto version on reprap first and then the real version on Linuxcnc
[11:03:08] <malcom2073> I dunno, I think the number of people interested would be small enough to not garner commercial attention
[11:06:02] <CaptHindsight> http://www.3ders.org/articles/20141003-tel-aviv-listed-nano-dimension-developing-3d-printer-printing-electronics.html
[11:11:52] <CaptHindsight> archivist: yes, easy enough to convert gerber but it would need a few tweaks and mods since printing has more flexibility that milling or etching and plating
[11:12:36] <archivist> all copying a 1960-70 IBM pcb method (used real wire)
[11:12:40] <CaptHindsight> you don't need or aren't limited to having traces on the two side of a core or prepreg
[11:13:02] <CaptHindsight> yeah, it's closer to multiwire
[11:14:30] <archivist> even the conductive film is a very old idea
[11:15:16] <archivist> over here one could get a tube of the "stuff" in Woolworths in the 70's
[11:16:24] <CaptHindsight> you can even print semiconductors
[11:17:03] <archivist> https://books.google.co.uk/books?id=6OwRb7N3j14C&pg=PA340&lpg=PA340&dq=multiwire+ibm&source=bl&ots=QLbo2-eqp6&sig=xzaJalanrfM0-JTa8XHZEbVTqDg&hl=en&sa=X&ei=1XD8VKSfKI31aLiOgOAK&ved=0CDsQ6AEwCA#v=onepage&q=multiwire%20ibm&f=false
[11:17:15] <archivist> I had an IBM 1130
[11:18:12] <CaptHindsight> guess I have to finish getting all these pieces together in Linuxcnc, registration using a camera, SLA and controlling printheads and micro-nozzles
[11:18:30] <SpeedEvil> ##homecmos
[11:19:06] <CaptHindsight> nmos and pmos are easier right now for diy
[13:35:01] <zeeshan> bobo i was wrong, that is gelbart's home shop
[14:15:22] <zeeshan> Tom_itx: what was that daq link
[14:15:23] <zeeshan> you posted before
[14:21:27] <CaptHindsight> SpeedEvil: it would be nice if they avoid using machinekit and just use Linuxcnc http://homecmos.drawersteak.com/wiki/Direct_write_laser_exposure_system
[14:22:40] <alex4nder> I hear pathpilot is the new hotness.
[14:23:01] <CaptHindsight> alex4nder: for the glue guns?
[14:23:26] <CaptHindsight> oh Tormach
[14:24:34] <CaptHindsight> http://homecmos.drawersteak.com/wiki/Main_Page
[14:26:02] <CaptHindsight> looks like no krapstarter kit yet to taint everyones perception of DIY lithography and microfabrication
[14:29:28] <Tom_itx> zeeshan daq?
[14:29:33] <zeeshan> yes
[14:29:34] <Tom_itx> you sure that was me?
[14:29:37] <zeeshan> yes
[14:29:40] <zeeshan> you were using it
[14:29:44] <zeeshan> to output some signals
[14:29:51] <Tom_itx> hmm
[14:30:00] <Tom_itx> that board you gave me?
[14:30:12] <zeeshan> i thinkso
[14:30:19] <zeeshan> software had a black background
[14:31:51] <Tom_itx> the cnc4pc site?
[14:32:11] <zeeshan> no!
[14:32:16] <zeeshan> it was some digital analyzer
[14:32:16] <zeeshan> thing
[14:32:23] <Tom_itx> oh saleae.com
[14:32:25] <Tom_itx> ?
[14:32:41] <zeeshan> thats it
[14:32:49] <zeeshan> thank you
[14:32:49] <zeeshan> :)
[14:33:20] <zeeshan> damn it
[14:33:22] <zeeshan> only 1 analog input
[14:33:24] <zeeshan> weak sauce
[14:33:46] <Tom_itx> what about the pro ones?
[14:34:06] <_methods> it's a logic analyzer......
[14:34:19] <_methods> not really the tool for reading analog
[14:34:22] <Tom_itx> the new ones have 10v analog input
[14:34:35] <Tom_itx> so in a way they are
[14:34:35] <zeeshan> too expensive
[14:34:41] <zeeshan> when you compare it to this:
[14:34:45] <zeeshan> http://www.mccdaq.com/usb-data-acquisition/USB-200-Series.aspx
[14:38:11] <CaptHindsight> need a low cost storage scope?
[14:49:02] <zeeshan> _methods: see im a bit confused on the subject of logic analyzer vs analog
[14:49:14] <_methods> logic = 1 and 0
[14:49:16] <_methods> on and off
[14:49:18] <zeeshan> if you look at the mccdaq, you see that it has both 8 digital inputs and 8 analog
[14:49:23] <_methods> lol
[14:49:29] <zeeshan> what makes the logic analyzer so special
[14:49:32] <zeeshan> vs a daq system
[14:49:35] <zeeshan> yea i understand that
[14:49:46] <zeeshan> but can't a daq serve as a logic analyzer too?
[14:49:47] <_methods> it's a tool that specializes in recording low voltage logic signals
[14:49:52] <_methods> sure anything can
[14:49:55] <CaptHindsight> so it lets you monitor and store analog and digital signals simultaneously
[14:50:04] <_methods> it's like a horizontal mill vs a vertical mill
[14:50:14] <_methods> you can do the same things with them but some are better at doing certain things
[14:50:21] <zeeshan> well whats what im trying to figure out
[14:50:27] <zeeshan> what a logic analyzer will do that a daq cant
[14:50:41] <CaptHindsight> higher speeds
[14:51:08] <CaptHindsight> and usually features like decoding different buses
[14:51:12] <zeeshan> ahhh
[14:51:20] <zeeshan> okay i see that now, digital sample rates _max_ 12MS/s
[14:51:26] <zeeshan> the mcdaq is only 100kS/s
[14:51:35] <CaptHindsight> so you can analyze things like SPI transfers without having to look at the 1 and 0's
[14:51:51] <zeeshan> im asuming the unit S means samples?
[14:51:54] <CaptHindsight> or state of the control line
[14:52:03] <zeeshan> so thats 12,000,000 samples/second
[14:52:09] <CaptHindsight> yes
[14:52:32] <zeeshan> okay so the mccdaq is only capable of dealing with 100KHz signals
[14:52:57] <CaptHindsight> to sample and analog signal you need to sample at >2X the highest freq you're working with
[14:53:00] <LeelooMinai> zeeshan: Logic Analyzer is optimized for digital signals. It will work with some standard logic levels, convert them to 1s and 0s and provide decoders for them usually - for common bus protocols, like I2C, SPI, USB, etc. It's also easier/cheaper to deal with high frequency digital signals than analog ones (for which you need ADC converters and expensive front ends). Also, logic analyzer will give you more channels - some have 32 and more.
[14:53:25] <CaptHindsight> zeeshan: what did you want to monitor?
[14:53:57] <CaptHindsight> power and logic one your IO boards? or do you have some analog signals?
[14:53:58] <zeeshan> LeelooMinai: ahh
[14:54:25] <CaptHindsight> I'm giving up on speeling today :)
[14:54:29] <zeeshan> CaptHindsight: i commonly come across the need to measure things like strain gages (load cells), rtd sensors, thermocouples
[14:54:30] <zeeshan> etc
[14:54:44] <zeeshan> i need a good system to measure them without breaking the bank
[14:54:53] <zeeshan> this is for the home lab, not school lab
[14:54:54] <zeeshan> :P
[14:55:17] <CaptHindsight> ok then that dual unit would be handy for you if you need simultaneous capture
[14:55:31] <CaptHindsight> otherwise you can get one of each
[14:55:53] <zeeshan> so since it takes +/-10V input range
[14:55:55] <CaptHindsight> there's a FPGA logic analyzer for <$100
[14:56:20] <zeeshan> that means i need to put an instrumention amplifier in between my bridge strain gage
[14:56:29] <zeeshan> and the daq to get a meaningful output
[14:56:49] <CaptHindsight> was based on the SUMP
[14:57:14] <CaptHindsight> http://dangerousprototypes.com/docs/Open_Bench_Logic_Sniffer
[14:57:32] <CaptHindsight> $50
[14:57:54] <zeeshan> well i dont think i need a logic analyzer
[14:57:59] <LeelooMinai> For LA I would reccomend Saleae clone for $8:)
[14:58:06] <zeeshan> i think that tool seems more useful for some device like LeelooMinai was talking about
[14:58:08] <zeeshan> using i2c serial
[14:58:20] <LeelooMinai> Yes, it's a typical LA
[14:58:33] <zeeshan> i need something for instruementation
[14:58:55] <LeelooMinai> DAQ then
[14:58:56] <CaptHindsight> I find deals on great oscilloscopes on ebay that just need self calibration or just minor repairs like a new power cord or missing probes
[14:59:13] <zeeshan> thank you for clearing this up!!
[15:00:20] <CaptHindsight> http://www.newark.com/bitscope/bitscope-micro/pc-based-oscilloscope-2-16ch-20mhz/dp/74X7819?ost=bitscope&categoryId=800000047003
[15:00:44] <zeeshan> CaptHindsight: why are you talking about scopes
[15:00:48] <zeeshan> what did i miss :D
[15:00:59] <CaptHindsight> you might want one of each
[15:01:06] <zeeshan> what would a scope do for me
[15:01:12] <zeeshan> in the case of datalogging
[15:01:20] <LeelooMinai> Not much:)
[15:01:30] <CaptHindsight> you would have seen your power problem
[15:01:43] <zeeshan> CaptHindsight: yes for that it makes sense :P
[15:01:50] <LeelooMinai> Scopes are mostly for looking at signals in time domain - at some short fragments
[15:01:56] <CaptHindsight> look at your analog signals on the strain gauges and similar
[15:02:35] <LeelooMinai> If you need to look at some signal waveform over, say, 1ms at some point in time, you want scope
[15:02:46] <renesis> DSO is basically a small envelope data logger
[15:02:50] <zeeshan> a scope makes sense to see the discharge pattern
[15:02:57] <zeeshan> for a car ignition system :p
[15:03:06] <LeelooMinai> If you ant to log changes to the signal over some long time, like hours to then look what was happening, you want DAQ
[15:03:15] <zeeshan> LeelooMinai: yes
[15:03:15] <renesis> leeloominai: i use them with like 10sec divs and peak detect mode to track stuff over couple minutes
[15:03:32] <zeeshan> LeelooMinai: got a daq recommendation
[15:03:33] <zeeshan> over mccdaq?
[15:03:33] <renesis> but yeah, longer than that, you need something to aquire
[15:04:00] <LeelooMinai> Yes, some scopes have Roll mode, but it's a secondary feature - all their strengths are at capturing some short durations and analyzing them
[15:04:34] <renesis> my 80s tek dso has roll mode, some of the newer ones dont =\
[15:04:57] <LeelooMinai> IN the past analog scopes did not have any memory at all and still they were useful:)
[15:05:18] <renesis> you just had to have better memory
[15:05:22] <renesis> heh
[15:05:40] <CaptHindsight> do any of the low cost USB scopes also double as a spectrum analyzer?
[15:05:47] <renesis> someone in #electronics was talking about a long persistence phosphor analog storage scope
[15:06:04] <CaptHindsight> phosphor memory :)
[15:06:07] <zeeshan> any recommendations on instrumentation amplifiers?
[15:06:22] <CaptHindsight> modules?
[15:06:26] <zeeshan> yes
[15:07:22] <LeelooMinai> zeeshan: Maybe find a DAQ that has differential inputs not only single ended
[15:07:29] <zeeshan> LeelooMinai: why
[15:07:40] <zeeshan> noise supression?
[15:07:52] <pcw_home> you need diff inputs for bridges
[15:07:52] <LeelooMinai> Well, that's what instrumentation amplifiers do - they have differential inputs:)
[15:08:25] <zeeshan> i should just use a mesa
[15:08:25] <zeeshan> lol
[15:08:28] <zeeshan> 7i77
[15:08:29] <pcw_home> they reject common mode noise
[15:08:57] <zeeshan> http://www.mccdaq.com/usb-data-acquisition/USB-1208LS.aspx
[15:09:03] <zeeshan> this seems to have 4 diff inputs
[15:09:07] <LeelooMinai> zeeshan: Think signle ended = normal op-amp, differential = instrumentation op-amp
[15:09:23] <pcw_home> I should make a sserial bridge interface card (using a Analog devices oversampling 24 bit A-D)
[15:09:25] <CaptHindsight> zeeshan: how fast are your analog signals?
[15:09:34] <zeeshan> CaptHindsight: stupid slow
[15:09:35] <zeeshan> lol
[15:09:37] <CaptHindsight> zeeshan: how much res do you need?
[15:09:39] <zeeshan> its a strain gauge
[15:09:43] <zeeshan> and rtd sensor
[15:09:50] <CaptHindsight> 16b, 24bit?
[15:09:54] <zeeshan> i think 12 bit is fine
[15:10:27] <zeeshan> 4096 in decimal i guess
[15:10:35] <zeeshan> it'd be nice to have more.
[15:10:37] <CaptHindsight> what voltage range?
[15:10:49] <zeeshan> id like to with standard +/- 10v signals
[15:11:00] <LeelooMinai> You need to make sure that the gain of the differential input can be matched to your signal
[15:11:17] <zeeshan> LeelooMinai: cant you do that in software?
[15:11:24] <zeeshan> say through calibration?
[15:11:28] <CaptHindsight> yes and no
[15:11:47] <pcw_home> and you need bridge power (better if ratiometric)
[15:11:47] <renesis> chunky
[15:11:51] <LeelooMinai> Software manipulations may end up at eating your resolution
[15:12:10] <LeelooMinai> Preferably you want analog gain control
[15:12:27] <LeelooMinai> Kind of like zoom on digital cameras:)
[15:12:36] <zeeshan> would this be an option for the daq
[15:12:38] <renesis> filtering is nice
[15:12:41] <CaptHindsight> zeeshan: do you need something with it's own enclosure, with connectors and power supply?
[15:12:43] <zeeshan> or the instrumentation op amp
[15:12:48] <zeeshan> CaptHindsight: no
[15:12:56] <zeeshan> internal supply would be nice
[15:13:00] <zeeshan> so if i just give it 110vac and n
[15:13:03] <zeeshan> it works would be cool
[15:13:05] <zeeshan> but not necessary
[15:13:20] <zeeshan> screw terminals would be nice
[15:13:23] <CaptHindsight> http://lx-group.com/solutions/product/analogue/ad8231-instrumentation-amplifier-module-2/ on one extreme
[15:13:33] <LeelooMinai> zeeshan: I don't have much experience with DAQs, but from the hardware point of view, yes, a DAQ could have features for controlling gain - not sure if they do it or how they do it usually.
[15:13:39] <CaptHindsight> I know you don't want to make your own board
[15:13:43] <zeeshan> CaptHindsight: yes! :P
[15:14:41] <zeeshan> okay i did some number crunching
[15:14:43] <zeeshan> i want a 16 bit daq
[15:14:44] <zeeshan> not 12bit
[15:14:46] <LeelooMinai> zeeshan: Some info you can find in the datasheets: http://www.mccdaq.com/PDFs/specs/USB-1208FS-LS-1408FS-Series-data.pdf
[15:15:11] <LeelooMinai> For example they write "All devices support software-selectable ranges that provide inputs from ±1 V to ±20 V in a DIFF configuration, and ±10 V in a SE configuration."
[15:15:18] <zeeshan> LeelooMinai: i think channel-gain queue is what you're talking aboiut
[15:15:45] <CaptHindsight> http://www.omega.com/pptst/DMD-465.html you want lower cost versions of these
[15:15:48] <LeelooMinai> Maybe - you would have to dig dipper to know exactly how this is implemented on the hardware level.
[15:15:55] <LeelooMinai> deeper*
[15:16:14] <LeelooMinai> dipper, lol, 5 more years and I will write like a 5yo child
[15:16:19] <zeeshan> :D
[15:16:57] <zeeshan> http://www.mccdaq.com/usb-data-acquisition/USB-231.aspx
[15:17:00] <zeeshan> i think this is what i need
[15:17:04] <zeeshan> its only 50kHz
[15:17:17] <zeeshan> im not working with loads that will be rapidly changing
[15:17:37] <LeelooMinai> Those strain gauges produce tiny signals - they may need some specialized hardware with high gain I guess
[15:18:24] <LeelooMinai> Even if you had 16bit resilution, but, say, over 1V, and you got like 50 μV signal, you wouldn't see much:)
[15:18:44] <zeeshan> μV
[15:18:46] <zeeshan> what does that say
[15:18:52] <LeelooMinai> microVolt
[15:18:53] <zeeshan> i cant see the first 2 characters lol
[15:19:02] <LeelooMinai> No unicode?
[15:19:14] <CaptHindsight> zeeshan: http://www.mouser.com/ProductDetail/Intersil/ISLRE-BDGSTKEV1Z/?qs=sGAEpiMZZMuq52OQiHOxGibiB8ldP0DHv3MAuYp%2fbnA0RrUOaSTy2Q%3d%3d
[15:19:30] <zeeshan> LeelooMinai: i guess not :(
[15:19:45] <LeelooMinai> zeeshan: Can you seee this: Ω
[15:19:49] <zeeshan> no
[15:19:53] <zeeshan> thats a copyright symbol for me
[15:20:03] <LeelooMinai> You need time machine to get you from 80s to the present time:)
[15:20:14] <zeeshan> hahaha
[15:20:46] <LeelooMinai> (that was an ohm symbol - greek Omega)
[15:20:59] <Deejay> indeed
[15:21:00] <zeeshan> lemme restart this program
[15:21:03] <zeeshan> i tried changing to unicode
[15:21:17] <pcw_home> 24 bit A-Ds are commonly used for strain guages
[15:22:01] <zeeshan> μV
[15:22:02] <zeeshan> test
[15:22:04] <zeeshan> nope
[15:22:04] <LeelooMinai> Right, ideally you want to optimize gain so that the ADC covers all usable range more or less exactly
[15:22:09] <pcw_home> http://www.analog.com/en/products/analog-to-digital-converters/ad-converters/ad7194.html#product-overview
[15:23:02] <zeeshan> pcw_home: whats this
[15:23:14] <zeeshan> looks like a daq
[15:23:21] <LeelooMinai> Usually you have choice of slow and precise and fast and less precise (like 10 or 8 bits only):)
[15:23:25] <zeeshan> nm its not
[15:23:29] <pcw_home> a 24 bit A-D chip with differential inputs
[15:23:54] <LeelooMinai> zeeshan: That's ADC - the core part of a DAQ - it's what samples analog and converts to digital
[15:23:58] <pcw_home> well is is a DAQ (on a a chip) just need a host interface
[15:24:32] <zeeshan> thats getting too much intro electronics for me hahaha
[15:25:02] <LeelooMinai> Those have internal instumentation op-amps to control gain in some limited fasion , like from 1 to 128
[15:25:21] <LeelooMinai> But sometimes you may want more gain and separate op-amp
[15:25:48] <LeelooMinai> zeeshan: Now, go, you know everything, design your device and roll:)
[15:25:58] <zeeshan> im even more lost now :-)
[15:26:00] <CaptHindsight> http://www.mouser.com/ds/2/465/an1853-320952.pdf DAQ on a USB Stick, Strain Gauge with Programmable Chopper Stabilized IN-Amp
[15:26:31] <zeeshan> CaptHindsight: the thing is i need something that can take 4 strain gauge outputs
[15:26:36] <zeeshan> and also monitor temp
[15:26:56] <zeeshan> thats why i was looking at a daq to begin with
[15:27:13] <CaptHindsight> zeeshan: whats your budget?
[15:27:23] <CaptHindsight> this for you or school?
[15:27:31] <zeeshan> for me
[15:27:37] <zeeshan> as cheap as possible :)
[15:27:53] <CaptHindsight> $58 ea ^^
[15:28:15] <zeeshan> im gonna need a shit load of usb ports
[15:28:16] <zeeshan> lol
[15:28:19] <CaptHindsight> most DAC modules with all the bells and whistles are $200+
[15:28:28] <zeeshan> 200 is affordable
[15:28:29] <zeeshan> 400 isnt
[15:28:46] <zeeshan> im reading that datasheet for the usb-230 mccdaq
[15:28:51] <zeeshan> and there is no mention on gain
[15:29:00] <CaptHindsight> maybe used on ebay
[15:29:18] <CaptHindsight> multichannel strain gauge usb module
[15:30:17] <LeelooMinai> If you are not good at programming, you may want to focus on the software part too - so you have something that will give you what you want (export of data, graphs, or what you need)
[15:30:27] <zeeshan> LeelooMinai: i can do programming pretty well
[15:30:31] <zeeshan> for this sort of stuff
[15:30:44] <LeelooMinai> Then something that has documented API
[15:30:44] <zeeshan> as long as i can log a text file with my data
[15:30:51] <zeeshan> i can process it in matlab
[15:31:17] <LeelooMinai> Or maybe even has some kind of matlab "drivers", plugins, or what it can accept
[15:32:04] <LeelooMinai> For example, like that USB-200 thing: "MATLAB® Data Acquisition Toolbox™ support (USB-201, USB-204 only)"
[15:32:04] <CaptHindsight> might be cheaper for you to use a load cell amp for each sensor and a multichannel USB scope
[15:32:47] <LeelooMinai> zeeshan: If you are some MATLAB wizzard I guess that support would make your life much easier
[15:32:58] <zeeshan> it helps
[15:33:00] <zeeshan> makes it more plug and play
[15:33:12] <CaptHindsight> http://www.ebay.com/itm/0-5V-10V-4-20mA-Load-Cell-sensor-Amplifier-full-bridge-strain-gauge-transducer-/231497841107
[15:33:36] <CaptHindsight> use this to condition and scale the signal ^^
[15:33:45] <CaptHindsight> and then a usb scope
[15:33:52] <zeeshan> why not a daq?
[15:34:01] <CaptHindsight> price
[15:34:11] <zeeshan> they have more channels though
[15:34:13] <CaptHindsight> the scope is the dac
[15:34:20] <LeelooMinai> That thing is the analog gain part more or less
[15:34:35] <zeeshan> strain gage -> load cell amplifier -> daq
[15:34:37] <zeeshan> done?! :D
[15:34:56] <LeelooMinai> It puts some current through the strain gauge, aplifies the result and then you need to put it to something that has ADC< yes
[15:35:47] <zeeshan> says load capacity : 87ohm
[15:35:52] <LeelooMinai> I htink it does what they would call "signal conditioning" part
[15:36:17] <zeeshan> my strain gages are 120 ohm in a bridgfe
[15:36:22] <LeelooMinai> That is making the signal nice for what ADC works with best.
[15:36:24] <zeeshan> so 30 ohm load
[15:36:30] <zeeshan> LeelooMinai: makes sense
[15:37:06] <pcw_home> 120 ohm load
[15:37:27] <pcw_home> (if 120 ohms legs)
[15:39:18] * zeeshan checks data sheet
[15:40:07] <furrywolf> bleh. no sun again today.
[15:40:20] <jdh> 71f, blue skies, gorgeous
[15:46:04] <Crom_> yeah surfacing to have a truer surface
[16:06:32] <bobo_> zeeshan "gelbart's home shop " ----------- dear Santa all i want for Chrisrmas ------- wonder how many winning lotto tickets are needed to duplicate his shop
[16:14:45] <bobo_> zeeshan strain gauge to spark plug discharge ----- that is a very large range of time and voltage / signal level ---- also reference/calibration levels
[16:17:16] <zeeshan> his shop is really nice
[16:17:22] <zeeshan> but his company also sold for 1billion :P
[16:17:31] <zeeshan> so i dont think money is an issue for him
[16:20:25] <zeeshan> http://files.redlion.net/filedepot_download/213/5160
[16:20:29] <zeeshan> i think this is what im looking for
[16:20:44] <zeeshan> a universal strain gauge amplifier/signal conditioner
[16:20:46] <zeeshan> with indicator in it
[16:21:00] <zeeshan> it looks like you can send the +v and -v signals to a daq.
[16:21:01] <zeeshan> and datalog
[16:21:03] <bobo_> to me it is what he is doing with his nest egg that includes him on the good guy list
[16:21:04] <zeeshan> *data log
[16:21:26] <zeeshan> yea
[16:21:32] <CaptHindsight> zeeshan: you found it!
[16:21:50] <SpeedEvil> zeeshan: there are nice all-in-one strain guage reading chips
[16:22:00] <zeeshan> SpeedEvil: FEEL FREE TO SHARE!! :P
[16:22:03] <zeeshan> ive been looking forever
[16:22:23] <zeeshan> if it has an amplifier, conditioner, all in one
[16:22:26] <zeeshan> i'd love to see it!
[16:22:27] <SpeedEvil> http://www.ti.com/product/ADS1220/technicaldocuments
[16:22:32] <SpeedEvil> Is probably overkill
[16:22:45] <CaptHindsight> but he wanted a module
[16:23:00] <SpeedEvil> Oh
[16:23:24] <CaptHindsight> he doesn't like to solder :)
[16:23:31] <zeeshan> well i can solder
[16:23:34] <zeeshan> if i know what im doing
[16:23:41] <zeeshan> that chip looks nice.
[16:23:54] <zeeshan> cause in applications it says "rtd, strain gauges"
[16:23:58] <zeeshan> which is exactly whatim trying to do
[16:24:03] * zeeshan now reads on how its implemented
[16:24:37] <CaptHindsight> http://www.ebay.com/itm/Red-Lion-Controls-Strain-Gage-Indicator-Model-APLSG-/281418786757
[16:25:28] <CaptHindsight> http://www.ebay.com/itm/RED-LION-CONTROLS-APLSG-400-NSFP-APLSG400-/231139055544
[16:25:45] <furrywolf> decided to try electrolytic rust removal... have an old load binder in a bucket right now, just to use as a test object. it's making lots of bubbles...
[16:26:10] <CaptHindsight> http://www.ebay.com/itm/Red-Lion-Controls-Apollo-Strain-Gauge-Indicator-APLSG400-115-VAC-Used-/230997678943
[16:28:46] <furrywolf> have the load binder as negative, and two bits of scrap metal (a broken harbor freight clamp and a piece of too-rusty-to-use tube) as positive.
[16:29:03] <furrywolf> no conduction between different parts of the load binder - will need to jumper to them separately it seems.
[16:29:42] <zeeshan> SpeedEvil: http://www.ti.com/lit/ds/symlink/ads1220.pdf
[16:29:49] <zeeshan> page 56
[16:30:02] <zeeshan> theres all this fancy rc circuits
[16:30:12] <zeeshan> in front of the bridge -- !?!?!
[16:30:37] <zeeshan> and the excitation voltage looks like 5V..
[16:31:23] <LeelooMinai> RC is for filtering probably - to get rid of high frequency noise
[16:31:38] <SpeedEvil> That' not a bridge
[16:31:54] <SpeedEvil> it's a RTD
[16:31:55] <zeeshan> are you on the same page
[16:31:58] <zeeshan> the thing on the left.
[16:31:59] <SpeedEvil> drawn with lead resistances
[16:32:03] <zeeshan> sectrion 9.2.3
[16:32:05] <SpeedEvil> oops
[16:32:30] <SpeedEvil> yes, the RC is for noide
[16:32:30] <SpeedEvil> se
[16:32:49] <zeeshan> how do you figure out the values for the r's and c's
[16:33:48] <SpeedEvil> you search in the datasheet for ccm1
[16:33:50] <CaptHindsight> http://www.electronics-tutorials.ws/filter/filter_2.html
[16:33:54] <SpeedEvil> and find page 49
[16:34:38] <SpeedEvil> specifically the fourth paragraph where they say 1K/100n/10n
[16:35:03] <zeeshan> data sheet expert :)
[16:35:04] <LeelooMinai> "The filter component values used in this design are: RF1 = RF2 = 1 kΩ, CDIF = 100 nF, and CCM1 = CCM2 = 10 nF."
[16:35:34] <zeeshan> microelectronics scares me
[16:35:37] <zeeshan> but its damn interesting
[16:35:55] <CaptHindsight> zeeshan: think of it like a harmonic balancer on a crankshaft
[16:35:56] <SpeedEvil> One of my projects that will likely never get off the ground uses one of these and an esp8266 to make a wifi strainguage and RTD and thermocouple reader
[16:36:19] <zeeshan> wifi would be cool
[16:36:23] <zeeshan> CaptHindsight: hehe
[16:37:02] <zeeshan> this chip is only 9 bux
[16:37:03] <zeeshan> ..
[16:37:50] <CaptHindsight> is there a cheap dev board for it?
[16:38:16] <zeeshan> http://www.digikey.ca/product-search/en/programmers-development-systems/evaluation-boards-analog-to-digital-converters-adcs/2622527?k=ads1220
[16:38:22] <zeeshan> looks expesnive
[16:38:40] <SpeedEvil> yeah - that's got way more stuff tan you'd ned for any one thing.
[16:38:53] <CaptHindsight> my earlier links had similar for Under $50
[16:38:57] <zeeshan> so from my limited understanding of this
[16:39:00] <SpeedEvil> It's implementing every single thing on teh chip
[16:39:05] <zeeshan> with one of these chips, i just feed in the bridge stuff
[16:39:12] <zeeshan> give the board 5.0V supply and a 3.3V supply
[16:39:13] <bobo_> zeeshan build or buy ---- think about needed calibration ---- reference standerds you will need , might check eev blog for his current ref. standard
[16:39:18] <zeeshan> a clock signal,
[16:39:26] <zeeshan> and then i can communicate over spi with it
[16:39:30] <SpeedEvil> bobo_: you don't need direct standards for a strain guage
[16:39:46] <zeeshan> bobo_: calibration is the easy part
[16:39:50] <zeeshan> you take a bunch of known weights
[16:39:54] <SpeedEvil> bobo_: as you take the input voltage to the refefence pins, and the output voltage to the input pins, and you're done
[16:40:01] <zeeshan> and you should get a linear relationship between voltage and force
[16:40:07] <SpeedEvil> And it doesn't drift noticably electrically at least
[16:40:12] <CaptHindsight> cheapest and easiest seems to be amp modules + cheap multichannel USB scope
[16:40:23] <zeeshan> CaptHindsight: think in terms of 4 strian gauges
[16:40:29] <zeeshan> and 1 temp sensor
[16:40:33] <zeeshan> is it still cheaper?
[16:40:46] <zeeshan> this chip makes sense to me
[16:40:47] <CaptHindsight> how manse sensors total?
[16:40:50] <zeeshan> cause i could buy 5 of them
[16:40:54] <zeeshan> feed them from the same clock
[16:40:55] <CaptHindsight> many
[16:41:01] <zeeshan> and have spi lines to go to an arduino
[16:41:09] <zeeshan> 5 total
[16:41:59] <CaptHindsight> I'm in the *duino free zone
[16:42:29] <zeeshan> would you put all the spi lines in parallel?
[16:42:35] <zeeshan> and hook it up to one input on the arduino
[16:42:40] * zeeshan is brain storming here
[16:42:58] <CaptHindsight> why the duino for muxing the SPI?
[16:43:11] <zeeshan> how will you get the data to the computer
[16:43:13] <zeeshan> to datalog it then?
[16:45:19] <CaptHindsight> how many bits of res did you say you needed?
[16:45:23] <zeeshan> 16
[16:45:26] <zeeshan> this thing does 24bit
[16:45:26] <zeeshan> lol
[16:46:23] <CaptHindsight> http://www.electronics-tutorials.ws/filter/filter_2.html 24 bit for ~$40ea
[16:46:54] <CaptHindsight> + usb hub
[16:47:57] <zeeshan> SpeedEvil: do you have resources of this chip being used with a mcu
[16:48:38] <CaptHindsight> so ~$210 for everything + cables
[16:48:52] <zeeshan> CaptHindsight: thats a link to some filtering
[16:49:04] <SpeedEvil> zeeshan: no
[16:49:19] <zeeshan> SpeedEvil: what made you go with this chip?
[16:49:41] <CaptHindsight> http://www.mouser.com/ds/2/465/an1853-320952.pdf sorry
[16:49:42] <SpeedEvil> zeeshan: I saw it on the front page, and wanted a strain guage/RTD thingy
[16:49:46] <SpeedEvil> I haven't yet made anythign with it
[16:49:49] <zeeshan> ah
[16:50:01] <zeeshan> CaptHindsight: that has the limit to only work with strain gauges
[16:50:03] <zeeshan> what about rtd?
[16:51:40] <CaptHindsight> does it work with a wheatstone bridge?
[16:51:40] <zeeshan> CHIP CS -> GPIO MCU , CHIP SCLK -> SLCK MCU
[16:52:00] <CaptHindsight> thats the input on that module
[16:52:06] <zeeshan> the signals that make no sense to me are DRDY, DOUT/DRDY, and DIN
[16:52:38] <zeeshan> CaptHindsight: rtd is hooked up a bit differently
[16:52:53] <CaptHindsight> http://www.omega.com/temperature/z/thertd.html like this?
[16:53:10] <CaptHindsight> zeeshan: which RTD is this?
[16:53:27] <zeeshan> 2 wire rtd
[16:53:46] <CaptHindsight> so like the ones shown ^^
[16:53:56] <zeeshan> figure 38
[16:54:29] <zeeshan> figure 39 looks better
[16:54:52] <zeeshan> CaptHindsight: i like the thing you posted
[16:54:55] <zeeshan> its just 5 usb ports
[16:54:58] <zeeshan> seems a bit excessive
[16:57:28] <zeeshan> looks like
[16:57:34] <zeeshan> the software is meant to interface w/ 1 sensor
[16:59:46] <CaptHindsight> if you want 5 simultaneous imputs that you can modify the software then use 5 amps and a USB scope
[16:59:53] <CaptHindsight> with Linux source
[17:00:57] <CaptHindsight> or write your own app for the Renasas micro
[17:01:07] <zeeshan> i think its cheaper
[17:01:20] <zeeshan> to run 5 ads1220's
[17:01:24] <zeeshan> with an arduino
[17:01:47] <CaptHindsight> depends on how much software you want to write
[17:04:43] <zeeshan> ah i think i get this now
[17:05:02] <zeeshan> din goes to mosi
[17:05:14] <zeeshan> and dout goes to miso
[17:05:25] <zeeshan> SpeedEvil: is there a dip version of this!
[17:05:45] <SpeedEvil> ssop is not scary
[17:05:52] <SpeedEvil> And I think not
[17:06:12] <zeeshan> how would you test it out
[17:06:19] <zeeshan> i have a regulard breadboard thing
[17:06:32] <SpeedEvil> you get a PCB made for $10ish
[17:07:00] <SpeedEvil> http://dirtypcbs.com/
[17:07:27] <zeeshan> thats assuming i know what im doing
[17:07:34] <zeeshan> i'd feel more comforable testing it before building a pcb for it
[17:07:39] <zeeshan> to make sure it works
[17:07:59] <zeeshan> maybe i can get a chip and sholder some wires to it
[17:08:00] <SpeedEvil> you take the pcb design from the dev-board and modify it
[17:08:01] <zeeshan> for testing purposes
[17:16:09] <Deejay> gn8
[17:17:49] <CaptHindsight> look I've already wired up my system while you're still designing your PCB :)
[17:18:18] <zeeshan> haha
[17:18:22] <furrywolf> derusting hopefully underway. made 8 disposable jumper wires to connect different parts.
[17:22:57] <furrywolf> used some unusably green speaker wire and garbage alligator clips that come in those 50-clips-for-$3 chinese packs.
[17:26:09] <furrywolf> http://www.mtfca.com/discus/messages/50893/79902.jpg my chain binder looks a lot like that "before" image. lol
[17:26:43] <furrywolf> came in a $5 yard sale "bucket o' rusty chain".
[17:28:19] <zeeshan> haha
[17:28:21] <zeeshan> thats COOL
[17:28:25] <zeeshan> the extreme difference beween the two
[17:30:03] <furrywolf> yeah, I'll report back here with how it goes... rust removal seems to be a pretty common task when working with old tools.
[17:30:29] <SpeedEvil> And sometimes the tool owners
[17:30:40] <furrywolf> if it really does work as well as the internet says, I figure at least someone here will also find it useful.
[17:31:49] <SpeedEvil> It is great
[17:31:49] <_methods> i do it all the time
[17:31:54] <_methods> it's great for etching stuff too
[17:32:00] <furrywolf> http://i1001.photobucket.com/albums/af136/original_danster/DSC00786.jpg another before/after... although I don't know if I'd want to use brake calipers that spent that long rusting.
[17:32:06] <zeeshan> ive used evaporust
[17:32:09] <zeeshan> and it works pretty good
[17:32:15] <zeeshan> but will turn your tools black
[17:32:19] <zeeshan> if its in too long..
[17:32:43] <zeeshan> furrywolf: as long as the bore is good
[17:32:45] <zeeshan> youre good to go!
[17:32:58] <zeeshan> SpeedEvil: thank you for this chip referral
[17:33:02] <zeeshan> looks like exactly what i need.
[17:33:11] <furrywolf> brakes are one of the few things I try to redneck only when necessary. :)
[17:33:15] <zeeshan> its going to take more work than just simply buying a module
[17:33:19] <zeeshan> but i can customize it for my application
[17:33:29] <furrywolf> I've used evaporust too... it's $29.99/gallon these days.
[17:33:35] <SpeedEvil> :)
[17:33:37] <furrywolf> and a gallon doesn't go very far.
[17:33:55] <zeeshan> i reuse it
[17:34:00] <zeeshan> lasts a long time
[17:34:04] <furrywolf> http://fw.bushytails.net/rustcomp01.jpg there's a before/after I did with evaporust
[17:34:06] <zeeshan> even when it looks like slimey crap
[17:34:16] <zeeshan> haha that looks great
[17:34:27] <furrywolf> I reuse it too... after enough rusty crap, it stops working. it especially doesn't like the hard black rust.
[17:35:15] <furrywolf> http://fw.bushytails.net/rustcomp03-01.jpg evaporust on a winch motor.
[17:36:02] <furrywolf> that might be the motor that's on my jeep right now, don't remember... it rerusted, annoyingly.
[17:51:05] <furrywolf> no visible lessening of rust, but the water is now opaque brown, so it must be coming off.
[17:58:54] <malcom2073> Nice
[17:59:02] <malcom2073> I'll soon be embarking on an evaporust ordeal
[18:01:56] <furrywolf> evaporust is sloooow. it's somewhat less slow if you heat it, but if you heat it, it'll make like its name and evaporate pretty quickly, and that makes it stop working - so keep adding water to keep it at the same level.
[18:02:28] <furrywolf> it does __not__ like grease and oil. strip the parts with brake cleaner or whatever your favorite solvent is if they have any grease, oil, or grime on them.
[18:02:37] * SpeedEvil wonders if hydrazine will derust
[18:02:48] <SpeedEvil> Phosphoric acid is awesome too
[18:03:14] <zeeshan> muratic acid
[18:03:30] <SpeedEvil> phosphoric is special from a derusting POV
[18:03:34] <furrywolf> evaporust has the advantage over phosphoric acid that it won't damage other materials at all. look at the picture I pasted where I evaporusted half a motor, brushes, windings, etc in place.
[18:03:52] <SpeedEvil> Hcl actively promotes rust
[18:03:53] <zeeshan> ive been watching tarduino videos
[18:03:57] <zeeshan> and now i will call it arduino
[18:04:01] <zeeshan> its so easy to use!
[18:04:30] <SpeedEvil> There is nothing wrong with arduino - as long as you understand the platform limitations
[18:04:36] <zeeshan> what are the limitations?
[18:05:00] <SpeedEvil> For example, floating point numbers mean you need an enormous extra amount of RAM
[18:05:03] <SpeedEvil> and ROm
[18:05:16] <zeeshan> computer ram?
[18:05:21] <SpeedEvil> yes
[18:05:27] <zeeshan> but like, is that really a problem in modern times?
[18:05:39] <Tom_itx> arduino is bloated
[18:05:39] <zeeshan> like that can be a problem for a standalone devide
[18:05:44] <zeeshan> device
[18:05:46] <SpeedEvil> the arduino is an atmel microprocessor with around (from memory) 512 bytes of RAM, and 20K of flash
[18:05:47] <zeeshan> that youre trying to sell or something
[18:05:54] <Tom_itx> if you want respectable code write it yourself i c or asm
[18:06:16] <zeeshan> so thats a software limitation then..
[18:06:50] <SpeedEvil> It's also an 8 bit micro, with no floating point support, so that example - it may eat 3K of ROM alone for that
[18:07:15] <zeeshan> so in the case of the 5 24bit adc's
[18:07:19] <zeeshan> communicating over spi
[18:07:19] <pcw_home> stm32f302 ftw
[18:07:24] <furrywolf> working with minimal ram is fun. I once set up a stack (as used for subroutine calls) in the output compare configuration registers on a hc11, because I wasn't using them, and they were usable storage. :P
[18:07:37] <Tom_itx> yeah if you want speed use an arm
[18:07:50] <SpeedEvil> ESP8266!
[18:07:53] <SpeedEvil> Free wifi too!
[18:07:56] <zeeshan> beaglebone?
[18:07:58] <pcw_home> quad 5 Ms/sec A-Ds
[18:08:06] <SpeedEvil> (probably not sensible)
[18:08:18] <pcw_home> floating point
[18:08:20] <pcw_home> ~$3.00
[18:08:53] <zeeshan> like im thinking of using the arduino
[18:08:56] <zeeshan> as a "breakoutboard"
[18:08:57] <zeeshan> type of deal
[18:09:06] <zeeshan> which basically interfaces with a bunch of sensors over serial
[18:09:14] <zeeshan> and transmits that data to the comp
[18:09:27] <zeeshan> spi i mean not serial
[18:09:39] <zeeshan> now i'm not sure how many samples it can take per sec..
[18:09:40] <pcw_home> spi is serial
[18:10:18] <zeeshan> online says 26 samples per sec
[18:11:37] <pcw_home> probably a baud rate/data format limitation
[18:13:23] <SpeedEvil> tthe above ADC goes upto (from memory) 2048/sec.
[18:13:34] <SpeedEvil> But - you get much less than full res at that speed
[18:38:26] <zeeshan> http://i.imgur.com/reQGM1K.png
[18:38:30] <zeeshan> did some number crunching
[18:39:24] <zeeshan> so after the ads1220 amplifies by a max gain of 128, its internal 24bit adc will see a voltage of 0-83.33 mV ..
[18:47:49] <LeelooMinai> zeeshan: That's why I mentioned that sometimes you may need external gain stage
[18:48:22] <LeelooMinai> Otherwise you will have only partial resolution available
[18:49:23] <zeeshan> i dunno
[18:49:30] <zeeshan> the datasheet is trying tell me something
[18:49:32] <zeeshan> but its not making sense,
[18:50:33] <pcw_home> thats a big reason why people use 24 bit A-Ds wide dynamic range (even if you throw away 6 bits or so )
[18:50:50] <zeeshan> they are saying the maximum input voltage is limited to +/- 4.6 volts
[18:50:56] <zeeshan> to keep the amplifier linear
[18:51:08] <zeeshan> er
[18:51:16] <zeeshan> 4.6 / 128
[18:51:19] <pcw_home> thats the common mode range of the inputs
[18:51:27] <zeeshan> +/-36mV
[18:51:33] <Valen> so this is what my CnC has been up to ;-> http://imgur.com/a/ccQ3N
[18:51:39] <zeeshan> so what happens if i give it a +46 mV input ?
[18:51:46] <zeeshan> it'll chop it off?
[18:51:55] <zeeshan> or give errorneous output?
[18:51:57] <pcw_home> that the differential mode range of the inputs (at that gain)
[18:52:05] <Jymmm> zeeshan: the universe as we know it will come to an end.
[18:52:10] <zeeshan> Jymmm: hahahah
[18:52:12] <pcw_home> some have overflow bits
[18:52:48] <zeeshan> so i need to somehow configure my bridge
[18:52:50] <LeelooMinai> Valen: Combat robot? Is this for some competition? :)
[18:52:57] <zeeshan> so that it only outputs a maximum of +/-35mV
[18:53:13] <zeeshan> er im confusing things :)
[18:53:24] <Valen> LeelooMinai: yeah, 1.3kg
[18:53:24] <LeelooMinai> YOu can change gain to 64 (?)
[18:53:30] <zeeshan> the bridge output is 0-.65mV
[18:53:40] <zeeshan> so thats well within the +/-35mV range.
[18:54:07] <pcw_home> so you need about 70 gain preamp
[18:54:18] <pcw_home> to get full resolution
[18:54:18] <zeeshan> or i lose resolution?
[18:54:24] <pcw_home> yes
[18:54:25] <zeeshan> lets say i dont have a preamp
[18:54:28] <LeelooMinai> Or you clip the reading
[18:54:41] <zeeshan> and i know the op amp is outputitng 0-83.333 mV to a 24bit adc
[18:54:58] <LeelooMinai> Valen: But who organizes such a thing
[18:55:00] <zeeshan> i guess there must be a formula to figure out what the output will be from an adc
[18:55:02] * zeeshan eads
[18:55:03] <zeeshan> *reads
[18:55:23] <pcw_home> yes depends on the reference voltage
[18:55:28] <Valen> LeelooMinai: http://www.robowars.org/forum/index.php
[18:56:03] <LeelooMinai> Valen: lol, is this like those old wars that were on Discovery in old days? :)
[18:56:11] <Valen> eh kinda
[18:56:13] <pcw_home> (bridge excitation should com from reference voltage also or vice versa for ratiometric readings)
[18:56:32] <zeeshan> pcw_home: yea thats how they show this diagfram
[18:57:19] <LeelooMinai> I think this is to cancel common noise
[18:57:34] <pcw_home> (then reference drift is factored out of your readings)
[18:57:36] <zeeshan> 2^24 = 16,777,216 counts
[18:57:48] <zeeshan> pcw_home: yea thats what they were saying
[18:57:53] <zeeshan> With this configuration, any drift in excitation voltage also shows up on the reference voltage, consequently canceling out drift error.
[18:58:38] <LeelooMinai> zeeshan: Watch for something called effective bits - just because it's 24 bit ADC, does not mean you will get all of them to be meaningful - it depends on many factors (like sampling rate)
[18:58:59] <zeeshan> LeelooMinai: i think its 24bit at 2000 samples/s
[18:59:43] <zeeshan> inteersting
[18:59:45] <zeeshan> they have a noise table
[18:59:52] <zeeshan> the faster you sample
[18:59:55] <LeelooMinai> If you mess things up, you may end up with like 8 bits of noise:)
[18:59:56] <zeeshan> the more noise you get
[19:00:44] <zeeshan> at 1000 SPS , 128 gain, theres 4.01 micovolts of noise
[19:02:12] <LeelooMinai> You probably have to amplify this by 128 too
[19:02:22] <zeeshan> ??
[19:02:41] <LeelooMinai> Many times they will quote input noise - but the gain will amplify that noise
[19:03:13] <zeeshan> ttheyre quoting Vpp
[19:03:15] <zeeshan> whatever that is
[19:03:15] <zeeshan> :)
[19:03:40] <LeelooMinai> peak to peak voltage
[19:03:42] <pcw_home> sounds fairly lousy the 7194 I linked to is about 4x better
[19:04:07] <LeelooMinai> That 7194 has "15.5 noise-free bits at 2.4 kHz (gain = 128)"
[19:04:10] <zeeshan> fak
[19:04:12] <zeeshan> wrong key.
[19:04:23] <LeelooMinai> So there's 8 bits eaten:)
[19:04:29] <zeeshan> http://www.analog.com/media/en/technical-documentation/data-sheets/AD7194.pdf
[19:04:32] <zeeshan> youre talking about this pcw?
[19:04:54] <pcw_home> right but staring gauges dont need 2.4 KHz sampling for most things
[19:05:04] <pcw_home> strain gauge
[19:05:06] <zeeshan> yea im never going to need that much speed.
[19:05:12] <LeelooMinai> "Up to 22 noise-free bits (gain = 1)"
[19:05:15] <zeeshan> 1 sample per second would be fine.
[19:05:20] <zeeshan> 10 would be nice.
[19:05:46] <zeeshan> im just trying to figure out
[19:06:04] <zeeshan> what the heck 83.33mV out of the op amp and into the input of the adc
[19:06:05] <zeeshan> will output
[19:06:31] <LeelooMinai> Scaled voltage...
[19:06:37] <zeeshan> from where to where?
[19:06:46] <zeeshan> relative to vcc?
[19:06:48] <zeeshan> er
[19:06:48] <LeelooMinai> From the op-amp output to ADC-input
[19:07:00] <LeelooMinai> Relative to the op-amp input
[19:07:15] <zeeshan> http://www.ti.com/lit/ds/symlink/ads1220.pdf
[19:07:23] <zeeshan> page 56
[19:07:24] <LeelooMinai> signal -> op-amp (* some factor) -> ADC
[19:07:48] <zeeshan> the internal reference is apparently 2.04V
[19:08:20] <LeelooMinai> Yes, 2.048 for the ADC to map it digital values
[19:08:37] <LeelooMinai> to digital*
[19:09:17] <zeeshan> i learned about this so long ago
[19:09:25] <zeeshan> i completely forgot how it works :)
[19:09:33] <zeeshan> i remember they were discretizing a wave
[19:12:46] <renesis> you only need a 24b dac if youre using fractions of the range of the dac
[19:13:22] <renesis> it makes sense in audio because theyll work with 20-60dB headroom
[19:13:43] <renesis> so thats 3 to 10 bits gone
[19:14:56] <renesis> and then the noise floor will eat the same fraction of full range on 24b adc as on a 10b adc
[19:15:58] <renesis> if youre signal is predictable, you dont need that kind of headroom, 24b is massively overkill
[19:18:00] <pcw_home> strain gauge usage is unpredictable, you often want more resolution for small load ranges
[19:18:09] <renesis> i kind of like 12b and 4.096v ref because LSB is 1mv
[19:18:30] <pcw_home> not for strain gauge usage
[19:19:07] <renesis> im guessing theres an amplifier involved
[19:19:42] <pcw_home> 24 bits is very common for strain gauges
[19:19:56] <pcw_home> bbl
[19:20:37] <renesis> well if its a tiny analog signal and you need the headroom so cant amp much, then yeah 24b makes sense for the same reason
[19:22:11] <zeeshan> how do you find out what the reference voltage is for the ADC?
[19:22:15] <zeeshan> in this damn datasheet
[19:22:53] <zeeshan> no idea where they are getting this 2.048V from
[19:26:09] <renesis> page 6
[19:26:42] <zeeshan> oh its not 2.048
[19:26:49] <zeeshan> for the resistive b ridge measurement
[19:26:52] <zeeshan> i gotta learn to read
[19:26:58] <zeeshan> To implement a ratiometric bridge measurement, the bridge excitation voltage is simultaneously used as the reference voltage for the ADC;
[19:27:06] <zeeshan> so its always changing
[19:27:23] <zeeshan> er not always changing
[19:27:26] <zeeshan> its 5V.
[19:29:26] <zeeshan> step size = 5/2^24
[19:29:55] <zeeshan> 0.000000298 :D
[19:33:32] <furrywolf> god I hate windows. hate, hate, hate. It just took trying five different sets of instructions to disable requiring signed drivers, requiring the command prompt and a reboot.
[19:33:51] <zeeshan> ??
[19:33:52] <zeeshan> just reboot
[19:33:53] <zeeshan> f8
[19:33:58] <Tom_itx> furrywolf what ver?
[19:34:00] <zeeshan> and disable driver enforcement
[19:34:14] <Tom_itx> zeeshan where do you do that?
[19:34:21] <zeeshan> right before the windows screen
[19:34:26] <zeeshan> when windows starts
[19:34:30] <zeeshan> f8 like crazy
[19:35:04] <somenewguy> http://www.ebay.com/itm/Bridgeport-Milling-Machine-CNC-Crusader-Controls/231215379380?_trksid=p2047675.c100005.m1851&_trkparms=aid%3D222007%26algo%3DSIC.MBE%26ao%3D1%26asc%3D20131003132420%26meid%3D0af7e2c335e04e16924b8a618e60c9de%26pid%3D100005%26rk%3D3%26rkt%3D6%26sd%3D331483041298&rt=nc
[19:35:18] <somenewguy> so perfect, if only I had the cash...
[19:37:04] <Tom_itx> a bit small but i wouldn't be greedy
[19:39:31] <somenewguy> for a home shop, its pretty good, but now you are gonna make me greedy
[19:40:03] <furrywolf> win7
[19:41:17] <Tom_itx> furrywolf is win7 32 or 64 bit
[19:43:27] <Tom_itx> since they dropped support for xp i'm looking at 7 or 8
[19:43:46] <Tom_itx> for one machine anyway
[19:45:00] <zeeshan> windows XP!!
[19:45:03] <zeeshan> holy! :P
[19:45:18] <Tom_itx> ?
[19:45:23] <Tom_itx> got a problem with that?
[19:45:23] <zeeshan> thats ancient :P
[19:45:37] <Tom_itx> it works good for what i use it for
[19:45:46] <Tom_itx> btw i still run 6.2 dos
[19:46:02] <zeeshan> hehe
[19:46:06] <zeeshan> i hate windows 8 man
[19:46:12] <zeeshan> and windows 10 doesnt look any better
[19:46:12] <Tom_itx> and it does it's jog nice
[19:46:29] <Tom_itx> i have 3 on 8 but not me personally
[19:46:43] <Tom_itx> 3 on vista
[19:46:54] <Tom_itx> 2 on xp
[19:47:03] <Tom_itx> 1 on 6.2/nt4 :D
[19:47:15] <Tom_itx> 3 on linux
[19:47:55] <Tom_itx> vista had updates to 7 but i never did them
[19:49:21] <Tom_itx> zeeshan what do you use?
[19:49:26] <zeeshan> win 7
[19:49:57] <zeeshan> if i could run all this software in linux
[19:50:03] <zeeshan> id move to linux in a heartbeat
[19:50:04] <Tom_itx> if you were getting a copy which would you get?
[19:50:20] <zeeshan> for win7?
[19:50:28] <Tom_itx> 7 or 8?
[19:50:35] <zeeshan> 7
[19:50:38] <Tom_itx> why?
[19:50:47] <zeeshan> windows 8 interface is terrible
[19:51:03] <Tom_itx> yeah i don't care much for it, i don't think i could be that productive with it
[19:51:10] <furrywolf> I have a couple autoshop programs that don't WINE... installing them keeps getting harder and harder.
[19:51:20] <furrywolf> if not for them, I'd never use windows.
[19:53:43] <bobo_> can one dual boot windows ?
[19:54:21] <furrywolf> yes
[19:54:23] <Tom_itx> i wouldn't think about dual boot. i tried it once and it went to crap in a hurry
[19:54:31] <furrywolf> ... how would dual boot go to crap?
[19:55:02] <Tom_itx> boot.ini gets corrupt or ntdetect etc
[19:55:08] <Tom_itx> or something else
[19:55:08] <furrywolf> never had a problem...
[19:55:30] <furrywolf> and I've always set up my systems with windows as dual boot, so they can be pleasant to use at least part of the time.
[19:56:03] <Tom_itx> did you let windows handle the dualboot or linux?
[19:57:50] <furrywolf> linux
[19:57:58] <furrywolf> grub
[19:58:35] <bobo_> grub or grub2 ?
[19:58:52] <furrywolf> whichever one Debian installs. heh
[19:59:13] * furrywolf didn't know there was a 2
[20:00:21] <bobo_> whatever the "new / enhanched " grub is called
[20:04:10] <MacGalempsy_> good evening
[20:05:49] <SpeedEvil> bobo_: lilo
[20:09:19] <bobo_> I thought lilo was pre grub ----not that i ever knew thought
[20:10:43] <furrywolf> lilo is old
[20:10:59] <bobo_> so is bobo
[20:11:26] <CaptHindsight> lilo is a very short yodel
[20:14:19] <Jymmm> #hdhomerun
[20:16:42] <bobo_> Ok----- where is that Pete in ugly-cold-no beaches Tn. person ?
[21:11:46] <PetefromTn_> Evening folks
[21:13:12] <_methods> hola
[21:13:55] <PetefromTn_> aloha
[21:14:05] <_methods> you still under snow
[21:14:30] <PetefromTn_> no actually today was glorious.. like 65 degrees and sunny
[21:16:07] <_methods> oh damn nice
[21:16:13] <_methods> was about like that here too
[21:16:19] <_methods> probably 70 or so all day
[21:16:50] <PetefromTn_> yeah we took the kids to the park today
[21:16:53] <_methods> omg just looked at this weeks weather
[21:16:56] <_methods> low is 73
[21:17:09] <_methods> w00t
[21:17:14] <PetefromTn_> then it was so nice we headed up into Gatlinburg and had some dinner up there
[21:17:33] <PetefromTn_> drove back down thru the Great Smoky Mountains National Park on the way home.
[21:17:57] <_methods> ah nice
[21:18:02] <PetefromTn_> It was a welcome change from the misrerable weather we have been having.
[21:18:12] <_methods> fo sho
[21:18:29] <PetefromTn_> I am NOT a snow and winter person
[21:20:31] <CaptHindsight> I'm just glad to have some 50's this week
[21:21:02] <CaptHindsight> PetefromTn_: is all your snow already gone?
[21:21:54] <furrywolf> current forecast is fog until tuesday, then rain until thursday, then ???.
[21:22:10] <PetefromTn_> Oh yeah it never sticks around more than a day or two.. in fact this last one was the biggest snow I have ever seen since living here 15 years now..
[21:30:45] <furrywolf> bbl
[21:39:08] <bobo_> Hay Pete has the beach thawed out yet ? what have you been doing on the mill
[21:40:43] <PetefromTn_> no idea what the beach is doing it is too frackin' far away...
[21:41:18] <PetefromTn_> have not done jack diddly squat on the mill lately it has been like a freezer out in the shop up until the end of this week...
[21:42:11] <PetefromTn_> with my forced air kerosene heater not working It takes far too long to heat up the shop and without any paying jobs for it lately I just have been working on other things.
[21:44:50] <bobo_> Pete look at this centering device , approx 2 min mark--I hope , https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=otSjut1iGGk --- something to draw up in the house .
[21:46:11] <bobo_> also in the comments section , he refers to build info
[21:47:39] <bobo_> hope your home shop ,to be, in Florida is as nice
[21:49:06] <PetefromTn_> never really thought too much of laser centering devices.... I use a starrett edge finder and it is about as accurate as I will ever need. I also have a coaxial indicator if necessary.
[21:50:32] <zeeshan> its not about accuracy though i'd think with that laser pointer
[21:50:37] <zeeshan> its about rapid setups
[21:50:41] <zeeshan> for not so accurate parts
[21:51:11] <zeeshan> he says he can get down to 0.05 mm
[21:51:12] <PetefromTn_> yeah I suppose
[21:51:14] <zeeshan> thats with his eyes
[21:51:14] <zeeshan> lol
[21:51:19] <zeeshan> i'd fail miserably
[21:51:59] <PetefromTn_> I don't see me using it
[21:59:18] <XXCoder> heys
[21:59:21] <XXCoder> finally home
[22:00:27] <bobo_> XXCoder hows the new hire doing ?
[22:00:51] <XXCoder> pretty good
[22:01:10] <XXCoder> I tried to buy tool chest but either too expensive or ran out lol
[22:01:19] <XXCoder> so gonna wait a bit to get better quality one
[22:04:06] <bobo_> know a guy who used his wife's overnight s-case , when starting at a job
[22:05:00] <XXCoder> lol ok
[22:05:05] <tjtr33> zeeshan, maybe of interest, i've used a LabJack U3 for years http://labjack.com/u3
[22:12:14] <bobo_> tjtr33 your comment on that laser center finder ---- I think you are correct --- have been thinking about that thing all day
[22:20:10] <tjtr33> bobo_, he's very intersting, the flexure video was very good
[22:24:20] <bobo_> yes but you pointed out useing it to tram a vertical head , was good
[22:36:11] <tjtr33> well it looked like a very visual way to do that
[23:18:31] <furrywolf> I hate daylight savings time.
[23:19:10] <anarchos2> so i have a button on parport pin 12, works great, but i added a button on pin 13 and it seems that since they are sharing a common ground and are being pulled up the system can't tell the difference between the two
[23:20:29] <anarchos2> what's the proper procedure for hooking up inputs like this?
[23:21:25] <furrywolf> I don't understand what you're asking. there are no built-in pullup or pulldown resistors.
[23:22:10] <anarchos2> well my BOB has pullups, so i have my button hooked into the pin 12 input, and into the ground, same goes (but pin 13) for the 2nd button
[23:22:29] <anarchos2> so when i hit either button, both pin 12 and 13 are activated at the same time
[23:23:53] <furrywolf> that shouldn't happen... check your wiring, or a possibly faulty 5V supply.
[23:24:34] <anarchos2> well if they are both hooked into the same ground...would it not "cross contaminate" the signal?
[23:25:17] <furrywolf> no
[23:25:25] <furrywolf> and that doesn't even make sense. lol
[23:25:35] <anarchos2> heh
[23:26:00] <furrywolf> unless you have normally closed switches and your ground is bad, but even then I don't think it would do that...
[23:26:22] <anarchos2> normally open
[23:26:59] <furrywolf> a bad 5V supply might activate all the inputs at once if you grounded any of them
[23:27:22] <anarchos2> hmm
[23:31:24] <anarchos2> now i'm super confused :P. I thought you were on to something (i have a BOB with ethernet connectors for inputs as well as spring loaded quick connectors...so i figured maybe it was because i still had the limit switches connected via ethernet (which i stopped using for the time being because they're a POS)
[23:31:39] <anarchos2> so i disconnected that, and nothing works now :P
[23:37:00] <XXCoder> https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=aJ4TJ4-kkDw thats cool
[23:39:13] <furrywolf> hrmm. I completely missed that last year california's 10-day waiting period on firearm purchases was declared unconstitutional.
[23:39:52] <anarchos2> Ok i'm just a major idiot :P. My BOB is labelled to have pull up and pull down, but it turns out it only has pull up built in, and you're suppost to add your own resistor for pull down, but because i had my limit switches still plugged in (which have a resistor) it was working the way i thought it was suppost to when only having one button
[23:40:23] <CaptHindsight> furrywolf: so your drive through gun shop idea is viable once again?
[23:40:48] <anarchos2> so now that i wire the buttons input pin and 5v, it works :D
[23:40:54] <furrywolf> lol
[23:40:56] <XXCoder> nice
[23:44:10] <furrywolf> that skylight looks cool, but I suspect it draws an ungodly amount of power.
[23:44:35] <XXCoder> dunno but with price like pretty good new car im not buying anytime soon
[23:44:40] <furrywolf> lol
[23:44:52] <MacGalempsy_> now that drive thru gun shop sounds pretty good
[23:45:07] <XXCoder> yeah good for that sudden murder needs
[23:45:18] <XXCoder> dont forget taco bell for meal after
[23:45:22] <XXCoder> murder meal
[23:45:47] <MacGalempsy_> in louisiana you could stop get a drive through dacquiri (sp?) then go over an get a gun without ever getting out of the car
[23:45:58] <furrywolf> their website is both useless and poorly designed.
[23:46:10] <MacGalempsy_> here in arkansas we have drive thru liquour stores
[23:49:05] <furrywolf> their product seems to be a film with particles in it that scatter the light. they claim it can be powered by either LED or fluorescent lamps.
[23:50:19] <furrywolf> their available models all use LED, which makes sense.
[23:51:32] <furrywolf> I suspect china can turn them out for about $100...
[23:52:08] <XXCoder> yeh
[23:52:16] <XXCoder> car prices hah
[23:52:25] <XXCoder> magic must be in that scattering
[23:53:24] <furrywolf> probably some type of diffraction grating to obtain the 3d effects...
[23:53:46] <XXCoder> its chemical stuff
[23:53:56] <XXCoder> it shows it in video, in least in abstract
[23:54:41] <Crom> ugh those moshidraw laser are total crap
[23:55:07] <furrywolf> just toss a lenticular layer over some glass microbeads...
[23:55:10] <Crom> we have 2 1.4 RAMP board to stick in them
[23:56:58] <furrywolf> I can't find a patent for it, but I haven't looked very hard.
[23:57:00] <Crom> then we have to build elevting table for the inside
[23:57:34] <XXCoder> Crom: it actually recreates the real blue color via scattering our air does
[23:58:16] <Crom> nice
[23:58:43] <furrywolf> "the aperture of the artificial skylight opens into a recess merely a metre deep in the basement's false ceiling" ... a meter deep?
[23:58:52] <furrywolf> that would explain the $7k installation cost
[23:59:08] <XXCoder> definitely not for low ceiling basements.
[23:59:32] <XXCoder> its a start probably will find better methods that lower depth to inches