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[00:00:41] <tjtr33> pcw_home, same result, latency-histogram fills spectrum, no sata ata all, no usb, all thermal and power mgmt off. must be a bad unit. will try to return it. thx tho, now i have a benchmark
[00:04:08] <Crom> I got a picture of what I cut I'll post in 10inutes
[00:07:54] <Crom_> Woo rodrun this weekend
[00:09:44] <Crom_> Slammed 56 Caddy very nice
[00:10:08] <Crom_> 65 vette roadster
[00:10:47] <Crom_> Car i liked best was a 66 plymouth
[00:27:03] <MacGalempsy> had a 64 caddy as my first ride, long, cool looking, but a gas tank as large as texas
[00:27:53] <Cromaglious> http://itslinux.org/pics/NewBreedVapes.jpg
[00:28:26] <Cromaglious> what I did tonight... Waiting for my 3/16 collet to get here so I can use my 0.025 and 0.008 end mills
[00:28:57] <Cromaglious> this is in 0.011 aluminum
[00:31:08] <Cromaglious> tuned up a 472 caddy can get decent mileage.. 80kv coil, electronic ignition, 0.065 spark gap, ping sensor with computer controlled advance
[00:42:42] <ssi> god solidworks is running SOOOOOO MUCH BETTER
[00:47:32] <Cromaglious> More RAM?
[00:47:37] <ssi> nope
[00:47:46] <Cromaglious> more CPU
[00:47:47] <ssi> fixed registry to allow hardware accel for video within parallels
[00:47:58] <Cromaglious> ahhh that'll do it
[00:48:49] <Cromaglious> sheeshz.. Solid Edge 2GB download
[01:00:41] <MacGalempsy> I am getting the x amp fault to register in LCNC when the amp faults with the halpin name x-fault however, in the PyVCP when I call <halpin>"x-fault"</halpin> the led does not come on. any ideas?
[01:04:05] <MacGalempsy> do I need to come up with another variable name for the pyvcp?
[01:05:40] <Tom_itx> net x-fault pin_name
[01:06:08] <Tom_itx> <led>
[01:06:19] <Tom_itx> <halpin> "x-fault"</halpin>
[01:06:29] <Tom_itx> <size>15</size>
[01:06:38] <Tom_itx> <on_color>"red"</on_color>
[01:06:49] <Tom_itx> <off_color>"blue"</off_color>
[01:06:57] <MacGalempsy> yep. thats how I had it
[01:06:58] <Tom_itx> </led>
[01:07:17] <Tom_itx> watch the signal in hal show and see if it toggles there
[01:09:29] <MacGalempsy> I had a space between <halpin> and the ". taking it out
[01:10:53] <MacGalempsy> it comes on as true
[01:11:06] <MacGalempsy> but still no led
[01:15:42] <MacGalempsy> it is strange that the joint 0 amplifier fault comes up at the bottom
[01:15:56] <MacGalempsy> but the led does not change color
[01:23:17] <MacGalempsy> so in the HAL I have...
[01:23:48] <MacGalempsy> net x-fault <= 5i25.0.7i77.0.0.input-00
[01:24:14] <MacGalempsy> net x-fault => axis.0.amp-fault-in
[01:24:50] <MacGalempsy> does sending that x-fault to axis.o.amp-fault-in mess with the pyvcp to turn the led to color on?
[02:24:00] <MacGalempsy> anyone around?
[02:24:42] <archivist> no none at all
[02:25:14] <MacGalempsy> ok :]
[02:26:10] <archivist> first rule of IRC ask the real question
[02:26:54] <MacGalempsy> I can see the x-fault as true in the hal pins, but the LED in the pyvcp will not change to red
[02:27:42] <MacGalempsy> I followed the example in the pyvcp section, but there seems to be a problem and I cannot figure out what it is
[02:27:59] <MacGalempsy> any ideas as to why the led wont change?
[02:30:04] <archivist> trace the signal along its path, where does it disappear
[02:31:10] <MacGalempsy> www.pastebin.com/i3ALcPaP
[02:31:25] <MacGalempsy> that is a link to the XML file.
[02:31:39] <archivist> that is not what I said :)
[02:32:12] <MacGalempsy> it disappears between axis and pyvcp
[02:32:24] <MacGalempsy> axis registers the fault with an error msg
[02:33:29] <archivist> is it connected to both
[02:33:51] <Deejay> moin
[02:34:30] <MacGalempsy> hello deejay
[02:34:55] <Deejay> \o/
[02:35:04] <MacGalempsy> :]
[02:35:50] <MacGalempsy> it is connected to axis, but obviously not pyvcp.
[02:36:57] <MacGalempsy> in the HAL file, how would I connect it to the pyvcp, I thought by declaring it with a net xfault <= 5i25... would make it visable to pyvcp
[02:38:17] <archivist> if that works for other pins yes, but, you said axis is showing an error, does the led change after you cancel the message
[02:38:59] <archivist> X gets done before y sees it type problem
[02:39:01] <MacGalempsy> no
[02:39:26] <MacGalempsy> ok...
[02:40:19] <MacGalempsy> the error is the standard msg that says the amp faulted (little rectangle at the bottom right corner) similar to the joint error when it hits an endstop
[02:51:28] <archivist> did you click the red x to get rid of the warning
[02:54:34] <MacGalempsy> yes
[02:54:45] <archivist> I still do not know if you overcame the pin voltage incompatibility
[02:55:19] <MacGalempsy> so, when the amp faults, it goes to 19.6 v. when it is clear, it is <2v
[02:56:03] <MacGalempsy> checking the HALPINS for the x and y amp, when the y is clear, the HALPIN shows false, when the x amp is faulted, it shows true
[02:58:19] <archivist> looking up you seem to have a name mismatch
[02:58:22] <MacGalempsy> going to add the links to the postgui_HALFILE and see what happens
[02:58:57] <archivist> x-fault not equal to xfault
[02:59:43] <MacGalempsy> i took the - out and made sure both match
[03:00:15] <archivist> and restarted?
[03:00:30] <archivist> remembered to save file first
[03:01:00] <archivist> see halpin list
[03:04:44] <MacGalempsy> yay. it works now
[03:05:04] <MacGalempsy> just had to do the net command in the postgui
[03:05:22] <MacGalempsy> thanks
[03:07:37] <MacGalempsy> wow. what a mission...
[03:08:15] <archivist> how many hours to find your own mistake, it is something we all do :)
[03:08:59] <MacGalempsy> your patience is much appreciated.
[03:09:16] <archivist> at the end the ah right moment, knocks it into the back of the brain ready for next time
[03:10:05] <MacGalempsy> it reminds me of this groundwater modeling class in grad school. the only way to find out you had a problem was to run the model, which took a few hours
[03:10:36] <MacGalempsy> I sat there for 2 days solid on 3 machines and was asked several times to stop yelling profanities
[03:10:54] <archivist> overly sensitive maths or badly written models, or rounding errors
[03:11:25] <archivist> we had fur developing a filter simulation for pink noise
[03:11:30] <archivist> fun
[03:11:53] <MacGalempsy> pink noise?
[03:12:13] <archivist> filtered white noise
[03:12:43] <archivist> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pink_noise
[03:14:27] <MacGalempsy> looks complex...
[03:14:28] <archivist> I wrote a pascal program, boss did the maths, between us we could prove standard parts(reasonable tolerance) could work and be in spec
[03:14:44] <MacGalempsy> was this a part for linuxcnc?
[03:15:07] <archivist> no, day job 20 years or more ago
[03:15:36] <MacGalempsy> ah. pascal. the first programming class I failed was intro to pascal...
[03:16:01] <MacGalempsy> in that wiki link, I like the sound bar that plays the pink noise sound
[03:16:38] <archivist> it was for calibrating microphone amplifiers
[03:17:17] <archivist> we had white,pink and two frequencies of sine
[03:18:31] <archivist> all from digital sources for stability
[03:19:56] <MacGalempsy> so you were making amps and needed a way to test the calibration, or was it a consigned job?
[03:21:55] <archivist> the calibration source is/was built into every amplifier
[03:22:24] <archivist> so for continued confidence I suppose
[03:23:36] <archivist> they were measuring jet engine noise, so to compare to internal calibration they know where a problem could be
[03:24:47] <MacGalempsy> sounds noisy
[03:24:53] <MacGalempsy> dB i mean
[03:25:40] <MacGalempsy> tomorrow will be a good day. should be getting just about everything needed to finish the wiring
[03:26:31] <MacGalempsy> all that is left are the relays for the ATC, zbrake, etc...
[03:27:26] <archivist> I really miss ATC on my mill
[03:27:39] <MacGalempsy> why not build one
[03:28:23] <archivist> it is a morse taper spindle
[03:28:51] <MacGalempsy> oh.
[03:29:26] <archivist> and the possible tooling combination numbers are rather high
[03:30:02] <MacGalempsy> this one had 20 holders, but it is a pneumatic pdb
[03:30:28] <archivist> I am generally side cutting with gear milling cutters
[03:30:52] <MacGalempsy> do you make your living with your machine shop, or is it hobby?
[03:31:33] <archivist> http://www.collection.archivist.info/archive/DJCPD/PD/2012/2012_03_31_contrate_gear_prototype/IMG_1206.JPG
[03:31:56] <archivist> not getting enough work to make a living
[03:32:23] <MacGalempsy> wow, that is some fine detail
[03:32:59] <archivist> http://www.collection.archivist.info/searchv13.php?searchstr=contrate+gear+pd
[03:34:05] <MacGalempsy> holy smokes, that is really small. watch maker?
[03:34:10] <archivist> I need to show that sequence to a person who was in the other day wanting to make RC car gears
[03:34:50] <archivist> I have made watch parts, usually work on clocks though
[03:36:11] <MacGalempsy> pretty cool website
[03:36:21] <archivist> you cant go and get off the shelf arbours for cutters like that :)
[03:36:52] <MacGalempsy> did you make the cutter?
[03:36:54] <MacGalempsy> too?
[03:38:19] <archivist> no it is a watch gear cutter use for an approximate form
[03:38:24] <archivist> used
[03:38:37] <MacGalempsy> my grandfather worked as a machinist for wright an mcgill fishing company during ww2, then kaiser medical supplies inthe 60s, and finished his carreer out with aerojet. all of his tools, he made. when he passed, my uncle took them all....
[03:39:09] <MacGalempsy> im hoping someday he will hand them over, as his son isnt into that stuff
[03:39:42] <archivist> my old man was an office jockey not many tools of use left
[03:40:09] <MacGalempsy> dad works as a luither making custom mandolins
[03:40:30] <MacGalempsy> he wants me to build him a cnc router, so that is on the list...
[03:41:02] <MacGalempsy> this was one of his inventions (actually a mod) but he sold out
http://www.tonepros.com/
[03:41:45] <MacGalempsy> all it is are 2 screws on a tunomatic bridge, which keeps it from wobbling when the strings are loose
[03:44:02] <archivist> best ideas are simple
[03:45:58] <MacGalempsy> the only things I have done to try and keep up was a r/c boat that was used for measuring lake levels and calculate volumes for frac jobs. and a modeling tool for comparing predrill geologic models with realtime drilling models called steeringbuddy heh (management didnt like the name, but the whole company uses it now)
[03:46:42] <MacGalempsy> the rc boat was fun because i got to hire this intern who was a super hot country girl who ended up with a great tan
[06:25:59] <sector_0> does anyone know why CNC machine tend to use the parallel port instead of the serial port?
[06:26:44] <SpeedEvil> The serial port on the PC has 3 outputs or so, and 3 inputs.
[06:26:56] <SpeedEvil> And these are awkward to drive.
[06:27:07] <SpeedEvil> The parallel port has at least 8 outputs, and 4 inputs
[06:27:15] <SpeedEvil> 12 outputs
[06:27:29] <sector_0> SpeedEvil, haha, you again
[06:27:36] <SpeedEvil> In modern ports, these may be more flexible as to which is output and which is input
[06:28:27] <sector_0> but ok I get that it has more IO pins, but then why do you need a lot of IO pins just to send G-code down the line?
[06:29:20] <SpeedEvil> You don't, if that's what you're doing.
[06:29:41] <SpeedEvil> But linuxcnc, and several other programs, directly control steppers or servos or ... in hard-realtime
[06:29:54] <SpeedEvil> This can be lots more flexible than just sending g-code
[06:30:22] <archivist> sector_0, the gcode interpreter in IN linuxcnc
[06:30:28] <archivist> is in
[06:31:57] <archivist> motor control is sent out any ports and switches, encoders are read, all in real time, rs232 serial is too slow
[06:31:59] <sector_0> ohhh
[06:32:01] <sector_0> interesting
[06:32:18] <sector_0> I didn't realize that's the case
[06:32:50] <sector_0> is this the way most CNCs are built?
[06:33:06] <archivist> it is much more of a serious machine control that some other "systems"
[07:02:19] <MacGalempsy> archivist: thanks again for your help. its bedtime. hasta manana.
[07:15:00] <Topy44> hi
[07:15:24] <Topy44> is there a hal pin that signals that a manual jog is currently happening?
[07:16:06] <Topy44> because of $reasons i need the motor enable override pin to be active during manual moves (the one normally used during homing so that the machine can move away from the home switches)
[07:18:44] <archivist> I think homing is clever enough to move off the switches
[07:19:00] <archivist> if you chose the right mode
[07:20:05] <archivist> probably this
http://linuxcnc.org/docs/html/config/ini_homing.html#_home_is_shared
[07:22:02] <Topy44> archivist: my problem isn't homing, that works fine
[07:22:12] <Topy44> i need a pin telling me if it is currently doing a manual move
[07:27:47] <jthornton> if after homing your sitting on the home switch you need to change your home position
[07:28:00] <Topy44> again: the issue isn't with homing
[07:28:03] <Topy44> homing works fine
[07:28:34] <Topy44> i need a hal pin telling me that a manual jog is happening
[07:29:23] <jthornton> what are you trying to do?
[07:29:46] <archivist> your first question implies it is a homing switch problem
[07:29:51] <Topy44> its not
[07:30:12] <archivist> (the one normally used during homing so that the machine can move away from the home switches)
[07:30:28] <archivist> what else can we think, tell us more
[07:30:36] <Topy44> so, i built some hardware which, among other things, prevents moves unless everything is in order. this includes going sure that the cooling system is running.
[07:30:58] <Topy44> the cooling system is being turned on by the circuit i built whenever a job is running
[07:31:21] <Topy44> the problem is that i forgot that this means that i cannot do manual moves unless the cooling system is running
[07:31:54] <archivist> see
http://linuxcnc.org/docs/html/man/man9/motion.9.html and the axis.N.jog-enable IN BIT
[07:32:09] <archivist> see what it is connected to
[07:32:30] <Topy44> thats an input
[07:32:45] <archivist> see second sentence
[07:32:53] <archivist> follow the net
[07:33:07] <Topy44> you mean inside axis?
[07:33:19] <archivist> inside your hal
[07:33:19] <jthornton> in your hal file
[07:34:11] <jthornton> might be good to know how your blocking motion when the cooling system is not running
[07:34:43] <Topy44> direcrete logic that checks if a line is high
[07:34:54] <Topy44> (the coolant pump has a logic output)
[07:35:33] <jthornton> I mean inside of LinuxCNC how are you blocking motion
[07:35:49] <Topy44> sorry, i don't understand the question
[07:36:15] <jthornton> is the logic output going back to Linuxcnc or is it going directly to your drive?
[07:36:33] <Topy44> it directly controls the enable input of the stepper drivers
[07:36:46] <Topy44> its quite a large circuit
[07:36:51] <Topy44> thats just one of the things it checks
[07:36:57] <archivist> many do this logic in linuxcnc not externally eg classicladder
[07:37:41] <Topy44> yes - but i don't :)
[07:38:43] <jthornton> so you could press the jog button and LinuxCNC thinks the machine is moving when it is not?
[07:38:54] <Topy44> yes
[07:41:02] <jthornton> you might look at connecting the coolant pump output to motion.enable and have a bypass button to jog with
[07:41:51] <jthornton> how are you homing with the coolant pump off?
[07:43:00] <Topy44> homing enables the motor override (so that it can move away from the limit switches)
[07:43:07] <Topy44> which also overrides the coolant pump check
[07:43:57] <Topy44> i cannot really think of an elegant workaround for all of this...
[07:44:26] <Topy44> if i use the override for manual moves it means it could run into limit switches (linuxcnc will still notice, but the hardware check is disabled)
[07:44:50] <Topy44> if i don't check the pump status the laser could go on without the pump being on (its a laser cutter btw)
[07:45:49] <Topy44> one semi-elegant workaround would be to add a signal that tells my circuit that the pump is on when its doing a manual jog, even if the pump is off
[07:46:18] <Topy44> but for that i need a hal pin telling me that its moving
[07:48:44] <archivist> a comparator checking motion=0 or not, moving
[07:51:23] <archivist> I am thinking of motion.current-vel pin
[07:52:17] <archivist> I also think motion.in-position will indicate moving or not
[07:53:06] <archivist> specially as that last pin is true/false TRUE if the machine is in position (ie, not currently moving towards the commanded position).
[07:55:51] <JT-Shop> are you using the spindle to fire your laser?
[08:01:37] <Topy44> archivist: hm, actually the current-vel pin might be an idea
[08:02:04] <Topy44> if motion.current-vel is not 0 but no job is running it must be doing a manual move
[08:02:51] <Topy44> motion.in-position seems to essentially be a bool version of that, yeah, gotta check it on the halmeter
[08:05:47] * JT-Shop goes to walk the dog
[08:16:05] <Topy44> ok, looking good
[08:23:20] * JT-Shop wonders why you would want to disable the stepper drives when you really want to disable the laser?
[09:05:07] <Topy44> ha, i actually got it working :)
[09:05:15] <Topy44> well, i got a signal with the information i need
[09:05:32] <Topy44> now i just need to put it onto an external pin and add a bodge-resistor to my pcb
[09:14:58] <furrywolf> blah. foggy and cloudy today.
[09:15:51] <furrywolf> I was looking forwards to a really good yard sale day.
[09:19:43] * JT-Shop almost has the profile roughing and finishing (G71 like) for a lathe :)
[09:20:20] <archivist> I have an unidentified cnc machine error list to catalogue
[09:20:45] <archivist> front cover page missing
[09:22:08] <JT-Shop> I wonder if someone is going to pick up the G71 patch that skunkworks posted to the mailing list?
[09:22:37] <archivist> picking up submissions seems a sore point :)
[09:22:53] <JT-Shop> yea, I've noticed that
[09:25:40] <archivist> just googled a random error message not found a sensible answer for "07046 spindle speed is not set when rigid tap was commanded"
[09:27:35] <archivist> hehe "spindle speed is not set when rigid tap was commanded" on its own here gets linuxcnc as first result
[09:29:55] <JT-Shop> what kind of machine is it?
[09:31:52] <archivist> something that had a pallet changer
[09:33:11] <archivist> I also got Deckel Makino Mazak other manuals, just by the dirt I would say it matched the Deckel manuals
[09:33:42] <archivist> and some Fanuc
[09:36:12] <JT-Shop> cool
[09:36:47] <furrywolf> argh. the internet is pissing me off more every day. home depot has joined the ranks of poorly designed websites where trivial things like advancing to the next page of search results involves javascript, animations, and breaking the browser's back button.
[09:39:06] <furrywolf> I do not know what makes webdesigners do things like this. Making it work is the default. It takes time and money to make simple things not work.
[09:40:44] <archivist> they are just plain idiots
[09:41:18] <archivist> they want to track our every move
[09:42:09] <archivist> I still use real raw HTML
[09:42:19] <ssi> modern web developers are TERRIBLE
[09:42:29] <ssi> I have to deal with them every day :(
[09:43:08] <archivist> I presume they use pointy clicky things for their "designs"
[09:49:56] <furrywolf> I just don't get their logic... displaying the next page of search results in a sane fashion involves generating a couple links with a page number on the end, and a few lines of backend code. Instead they decide to write tons of javascript, add animations (which are ALWAYS FUCKING SLOW AND ANNOYING. Always! Why would anyone in their right mind want to wait for things to appear slowly?), extra backend code for the javascript to call, etc, etc... for a
[09:51:11] <furrywolf> is there a portion of the population that wants to sit there and watch things slowly fade, move around, etc, rather than instantly appearing? isn't the goal of ever-faster computers and networks to make things closer to instant?
[09:53:30] <archivist> the designers "think" bling sells
[09:53:50] <archivist> which is Apples case seems true
[09:53:55] <archivist> is in
[09:55:09] <archivist> so they are chasing idiots money, but they seem to have forgotten IBMs speed rule for screen data, 1 second
[09:56:59] <furrywolf> At no point in my life have I ever complained that things rendered too quickly...
[09:57:30] <SpeedEvil> http://xkcd.com/303/
[09:57:30] <_methods> for some reason i doubt that
[09:58:59] <TekniQue> furrywolf: what about things that happen suspiciously quickly?
[09:59:26] <TekniQue> like, when you're used to a job taking a certain amount of time, if it suddenly becomes very fast that's highly suspicious
[10:04:14] <furrywolf> I don't think that applies to rendering.
[10:06:23] <TekniQue> sure
[10:06:27] <TekniQue> the job may have crashed
[10:06:38] <TekniQue> but is reporting a false success
[10:09:55] <furrywolf> ... rendering. not processing.
[10:13:29] <TekniQue> oh you mean like DOM rendering
[10:13:57] <TekniQue> not the kind of render job that takes hours or days on a cluster of machines
[10:17:59] <archivist> yes that sort of 250 resource calls to render one page eg ebay search page 210 resources
[10:19:38] <furrywolf> correct. rendering like showing elements on web pages, etc.
[10:19:47] <furrywolf> or a box on the screen.
[10:19:50] <archivist> plus 24 redirects to that number
[10:21:26] <furrywolf> brb
[11:26:19] <furrywolf> ... ebay just screwed up in a way that's going to get them angry calls if people don't notice. several items in my shopping cart just duplicated themselves.
[11:27:46] <archivist> sometimes that is just a temporary screen redraw problem
[11:28:13] <archivist> happens on a number of ebay pages
[11:28:18] <furrywolf> bbl
[11:37:02] <dirty_d> archivist, youre using fusion 360 right?
[11:44:50] <archivist> dirty_d, er wot?
[11:45:10] <dirty_d> maybe it was someone else
[11:45:42] <archivist> I googled it is an etcha sketch product
[11:46:51] <archivist> inventer was so "good" they renamed it?
[11:47:57] <dirty_d> i dunno, its free though
[11:48:05] <dirty_d> and has hsmexpress built in supposedly
[11:53:11] <dirty_d> wow this is actually pretty damn impressive
[11:54:05] <Topy44> right, enough for today. actually got my bodge working.
[11:54:48] <Topy44> unfortunately that means there is an ugly bodge resistor on my newly designed pcb :(
[11:55:30] <Topy44> and when someone looks at my crazy hal-construct in a couple years they'll have no idea wtf it does :)
[12:17:25] <SpeedEvil> On bandsaw life - is for a given chip loading, all that matters is how many meters it's cut?
[12:17:43] <SpeedEvil> Assuming fatigue is not an issue
[12:18:07] <archivist> what it cuts too
[12:18:12] <SpeedEvil> Well, yes.
[12:18:49] <SpeedEvil> I mean if you're cutting the same work - just in differnet bandsaws - say with 1/4" or 3/8" blades
[12:19:19] <archivist> blade quality, and user skill
[12:19:50] <SpeedEvil> yeah. I guess 1/4"" may be more vulnerable to buckling moments
[12:20:15] <archivist> feed rate is a user problem
[12:20:32] <SpeedEvil> Indeed.
[12:21:14] <SpeedEvil> I'm pondering fitting my saw with a blade force indicator.
[12:21:22] <archivist> the right blade type for material is also user problem
[12:21:33] <SpeedEvil> yeah
[12:22:13] <archivist> I was at a local steel supplier, and they changed blade for just a few cuts for me
[12:24:00] <archivist> a local yocal at a farm gets through loads of blades, seems careless
[12:25:14] <archivist> just last year I replaced the first blade on my lidl special, it did not like me cutting aluminium :)
[12:25:45] <archivist> had it about 6 years
[12:27:05] <SpeedEvil> archivist: yeah - I'm pondering resawing ~300m of 3*2 into 3*0.25
[12:27:46] <SpeedEvil> Hence the wondering about blade life.
[12:29:31] <archivist> bench saw if you have one
[12:29:53] <SpeedEvil> Table saw?
[12:29:56] <archivist> I dont rate bandsaws for long stuff
[12:29:59] <SpeedEvil> yeah - kerf is annoying that way
[12:30:13] <archivist> table/bench same difference
[12:30:17] <SpeedEvil> I would be making a long infeed and outfeed table and clamp rollers first
[12:30:33] <SpeedEvil> and probably a roller infeed and outfeed
[12:31:05] <archivist> band blades go off line when they wear
[12:31:44] <SpeedEvil> yeah - but I don't care that much
[12:32:47] <archivist> but is one side going to show
[12:33:38] <SpeedEvil> I was assuming I'd need to run it all through a sander
[12:34:28] <archivist> the depth of error might be beyond a sander, a planer yes
[12:34:55] <archivist> table saw may be close enough for sanding
[12:35:18] <archivist> end use?
[12:35:36] <SpeedEvil> Internal sheathing on a shed - under insulation - to hold a vapor barrier layer.
[12:37:43] <archivist> some of the upvc trim is so cheap and rot proof
[12:38:48] <SpeedEvil> yeah - for inside though.
[12:38:59] <archivist> 5 metre length for 3 quid
http://www.pvc-warehouse.co.uk/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=58_94&products_id=383
[12:39:10] <SpeedEvil> Also - thermowood is interesting for processing wood. Heat to ~250C and it becomes mostly rot-proof
[12:39:52] <SpeedEvil> yes - 15 quid a square meter.
[12:39:58] <archivist> most of the trim I see is used outdoor too
[12:40:21] <SpeedEvil> The above solution is more like 2.50 quid a square meter.
[12:41:43] <archivist> http://www.pvc-warehouse.co.uk/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=31_32&products_id=131
[12:42:17] <SpeedEvil> That is pretty good
[12:42:33] <SpeedEvil> Bookmarkedfor other stuff
[12:43:04] <archivist> I part time for a window company hence see the stuff
[12:44:06] <archivist> ask your local building plastics distributor
[13:03:10] <zeeshan> rofl
[13:03:17] <zeeshan> i found a funny pic going while organizing comp files
[13:03:21] <zeeshan> http://i.imgur.com/CLTqp10.jpg
[13:03:28] <zeeshan> thats how i moved a bunch of big parts for the rx7
[13:03:28] <zeeshan> hahah
[13:15:23] <alex4nder> laf
[13:15:56] <alex4nder> zeeshan: I talked to my brother yesterday,.. him and a fellow race mechanic just bought a miata shell to run a 13BT in
[13:16:12] <zeeshan> :D
[13:16:47] <alex4nder> they're doing it to fuck with some of the local proam racers
[13:17:17] <alex4nder> looks like it's going to be a miata, 13BT, TII transmission and rear diff, Autronic SM4 running it
[13:17:41] <zeeshan> light chassis to start with
[13:17:42] <zeeshan> what year?
[13:18:06] <alex4nder> one of the early 90s
[13:21:46] <zeeshan> very light
[13:21:46] <zeeshan> :D
[13:21:52] <alex4nder> yah
[13:22:33] <alex4nder> grrr... 8mm shaft, all I have is a 5/16 collet
[13:36:47] <CaptHindsight> has anyone found a decent pre-assembled ~25 x 40cm (10" x 16") cnc router yet?
[14:00:26] <Jymmm> CaptHindsight: pricetag?
[14:10:09] <Cromaglious> morning
[14:13:31] <Tecan> good yes ?
[14:13:37] <CaptHindsight> Jymmm: <$5k
[14:15:11] <Jymmm> CaptHindsight: where you at?
[14:17:02] <CaptHindsight> looking for something available in N America and Europe
[14:17:54] <Cromaglious> how assembled is assembled
[14:18:58] <CaptHindsight> not a kit, maybe just add controls, the rest should be ready to go right out of the box
[14:19:01] <Jymmm> CaptHindsight: I could sell you mine, 24" x 24" x 6" travel, 2.25HP (18K-25K RPM)
[14:19:18] <CaptHindsight> Jymmm: looking for more than one :)
[14:19:28] <Jymmm> CaptHindsight: ah
[14:19:56] <Jymmm> CaptHindsight: what material will you be working with?
[14:20:26] <CaptHindsight> engineering plastics
[14:20:44] <Cromaglious> I'm working on getting a Bridgeport for the creatorspace.us
[14:21:13] <Nick001-shop> <pcw_home> you around?
[14:21:28] <Jymmm> CaptHindsight: ah
[14:28:43] <Cromaglious> looking at almost running a job shop out of the creatorspace.us to make money for the space and me.
[14:31:23] <pcw_home> Yeah
[14:38:00] <Nick001-shop> having trouble with mesaflash
[14:39:37] <Nick001-shop> wont write file to card. says can't find file. I'm probably missing something
[14:40:53] <Nick001-shop> software is only showing hotmot-2-firmware5i20,5i23 and I have 5i25
[14:41:35] <Nick001-shop> I also have Linuxcnc 2.6.7
[14:53:07] <pcw_home> The firmware file needs to be in your current directory (and you only do this if you need to change your firmware)
[14:55:48] <pcw_home> So first fetch the appropriate firmware and then:
[14:55:49] <pcw_home> sudo mesaflash --device 5i25 --write 5i25_something.bit
[14:55:51] <pcw_home> ( assuming 5i25_something.bit is in your current directory)
[14:57:02] <pcw_home> then either power cycle or if the _old_ firmware is new enough you can:
[14:57:03] <pcw_home> sudo mesaflash --device 5i25 --reload
[14:58:03] <Nick001-shop> I have it on a stick - whats the current directory - dumb -I know - I'm used to windows and linux is still somewhat a mystery to me but I manage with pointers
[14:58:34] <Nick001-shop> What is a power cycle - a reboot?
[14:59:15] <pcw_home> no power off and power up again, reboot wont do
[14:59:37] <Nick001-shop> I did the reload and it said ok - but when is= did verify it said couldn't find file
[15:00:10] <pcw_home> ok so you can reload so you dont need to power cycle
[15:00:27] <pcw_home> but you still need the new bitfile
[15:01:19] <Nick001-shop> I have the 5i25 software package - exactly where do I copy it to?
[15:01:19] <pcw_home> if "ls" shows you the desired bitfile, its in your current directory
[15:02:01] <pcw_home> anywhere you like. for this purpose, ~/bitfiles is probably ok
[15:02:16] <pcw_home> or do it from the USB stick
[15:16:15] <Nick001-shop> I found the directory with the files I think. I'm putting in ** --write FPGAFile.Bit and I think I should be using one of the *.bit files in that directory. Which is the proper one for the 5i25 and 7i76 cards. There are several variations in there
[15:18:00] <Nick001-shop> I found the directory with the files I think. I'm putting in ** --write FPGAFile.Bit and I think I should be using one of the *.bit files in that directory. Which is the proper one for the 5i25 and 7i76 cards. There are several variations in there
[15:29:09] <Nick001-shop> <pcw_home>There are several 5i25_7i76--- files in there - which one should I be using?
[15:30:15] <pcw_home> I guess first question is why are you changing the firmware?
[15:32:42] <Nick001-shop> I've hooked up a stepper and nothing is happening. It's connected to a gecko driver that's been working. I assume I have to load firmware into new cards.
[15:33:30] <pcw_home> If you bought the card with a 7I76, it should have 7i76 firmware already
[15:35:24] <Nick001-shop> I'm just trying to get this motor to move - I did the pccong and loaded up the axes info - especially the A drive
[15:35:39] <Nick001-shop> pcconfigg
[15:37:12] <Nick001-shop> I probably screwed something up and I better make sure about the firmware and if it's correct
[15:37:59] <pcw_home> you can read the firmware pinout with
[15:38:00] <pcw_home> sudo mesaflash --device 5i25 --readhmid | more
[15:45:44] <Nick001-shop> Will try it It did verify 5i25_7i76x2.bit
[15:49:55] <Nick001-shop> It gave all kinds of info - anything in particular I should be looking for?
[15:52:33] <pcw_home> well if it verifies with 5i25_7i76x2.bit you dont care, you already have the proper firmware loaded
[15:55:38] <Nick001-shop> Any ideas on why the motor isn't moving? Question - I have step and dir - pins but gecko doesn't use them - do I connect them to gnd or leave them unconnected?
[16:00:47] <pcw_home> unconnected
[16:03:04] <pcw_home> I think that you should probably use the STEP- and DIR- pins (instead of the + pins)
[16:03:06] <pcw_home> since Gecko typically uses common anode connected OPTOs
[16:05:22] <Nick001-shop> I'll try un connecting first - then go to the - pins with + unconnected - be back
[16:22:59] <Deejay> gn8
[16:28:46] <Nick001-shop> <pcw_home> Still no go on the A axis - I need to check out the config files. I moved the gecko driver to X axis and got movement so I have something screwed. The + pins worked for the gecko card - need to try the - pins to see if they'll work also.
[16:31:11] <pcw_home> If the Gecko inputs have a common 5V pin you need to use at least the - step pin
[17:06:59] <sector_0> SpeedEvil, another thing about using the parallel port to connect a CNC..what if my PC doesn't have a parallel port?
[17:07:13] <sector_0> many computer manufacturers are phasing them out
[17:07:19] <SpeedEvil> Then you get a pcie PP
[17:07:24] <sector_0> what you use, a FTDI?
[17:07:30] <SpeedEvil> USB sucks
[17:07:31] <sector_0> oh ok
[17:07:37] <SpeedEvil> (from a latency POV)
[17:07:44] <SpeedEvil> many new motherboards have parallel ports
[17:07:55] <SpeedEvil> though few these days have them on the backplate
[17:08:30] <sector_0> SpeedEvil, but I don't understand your comment about USB "sucking" though
[17:08:49] <SpeedEvil> It has lousy latency
[17:08:49] <sector_0> USB2.0 has a throughput of ~12MB/s
[17:08:58] <SpeedEvil> At the very best 1ms
[17:09:22] <SpeedEvil> Typical latencies for many motherboards with PP are 10us.
[17:10:10] <sector_0> SpeedEvil, oh so you're talking about from the time you make the send command, to the time the USB starts sending?
[17:10:20] <SpeedEvil> If you're talking a 800 steps/rev stepper, going at 4000RPM, it matters
[17:10:41] <SpeedEvil> yes
[17:10:42] <Nick001-shop> <pcw_home> Got A axis to move finally. Screwed up where I was plugging in. The - pins only allow the motor to bump a few steps. I'm using a 251X driver and I don't see a common 5v pin. This has a 10 pulse per step deal.
[17:11:10] <pcw_home> Does it have a common ground for step/dir?
[17:11:45] <sector_0> SpeedEvil, I see
[17:11:52] <sector_0> didn't realize that was that case
[17:11:57] <sector_0> hmm
[17:12:54] <pcw_home> if the drives have a common ground you should use the +step pins (sorry if I'm generating useless work)
[17:13:04] <sector_0> that's why you suggested a pcie PP and not a USB-PP
[17:13:09] <Nick001-shop> just a gnd pin then step, dir
[17:13:14] <sector_0> hmm
[17:15:08] <Nick001-shop> also disable pin
[17:15:58] <Nick001-shop> That's how one learns -
[17:17:44] <Nick001-shop> Also, I'm using a small nema23 stepper. Better if I smoke that than one of the big steppers on the Bridgeport.
[17:20:39] <dirty_d> such accuracy
http://i.imgur.com/DN256J1.jpg
[17:20:40] <dirty_d> wow
[17:21:02] <dirty_d> holes came out a lot better with the keling drivers and lower feedrate
[17:21:53] <dirty_d> i have a feeling the crappy old drivers didnt produce enough current to hold the motors between full steps
[17:23:48] <Cromaglious> 45mm bolt pattern is a nema23 right?
[17:29:27] <dirty_d> google images shows 47.14mm and 47mm
[17:30:53] <dirty_d> wonder how they came up with that number
[17:32:49] <Cromaglious> it's in inches 2.3" for the outter case 1.875 ish for bolt pattern
[17:33:33] <Cromaglious> 1.856" is 47.14
[17:36:20] <dirty_d> youd figure either the metric size would be an integer, or the inch a fraction
[17:36:28] <dirty_d> but there both just weird numbers
[17:37:00] <Cromaglious> but copyrightable
[17:40:21] <dirty_d> hmm?
[17:49:50] <Cromaglious> if no one is using a dimension on a trade item, it can be used and copyrighted. Copyrights last longer than a patent
[18:01:43] <dirty_d> thats kinda silly
[18:06:43] <LatheBuilder> Figured out the prblem from last weekend = missing neutral wire. (it worked previously because something I removed provided the return path). Added a return path for the 24vdc rail and no more AC induced cross talk from neighboring wires.
[18:29:50] <adoyle88> So I am completely stumped on my CNC bender project. I can't see how to write commands in gcode that would turn on a hydraulic valve until my encoder reaches a degree specified in the gcode.
[18:29:57] <adoyle88> Anyone have any ideas?
[18:30:19] <adoyle88> I've been able to make a neat encoder that responds to optical sensors.
[18:31:05] <adoyle88> I almost need to control this like a servo but without pwm stuff
[18:33:58] <_methods> you could use an mcode
[18:34:13] <_methods> custom mcode to turn on the valve
[18:34:26] <_methods> or even just use like coolant on mcode
[18:34:51] <_methods> since you don't have flood coolant on your bender i'm guessing
[18:35:05] <adoyle88> but how do I specify the angle?
[18:35:26] <_methods> how are you measuring the angle?
[18:35:27] <pcw_home> well weird...
[18:35:28] <adoyle88> can I pass variables from gcode to my hal program?
[18:35:28] <pcw_home> might look at the linuxcnc code to see what it does
[18:35:47] <pcw_home> oops
[18:35:55] <adoyle88> I've got a rotary optical encoder
[18:36:15] <adoyle88> It counts every half degree
[18:36:39] <_methods> and you want to stop the valve when your encoder reads the correct position
[18:36:46] <pcw_home> maybe the compare component is what you want
[18:37:49] <pcw_home> then somehow pause interpretation until done
[18:38:12] <_methods> state machine
[18:38:28] <pcw_home> (but I have no idea what I'm talking about)
[18:38:30] <_methods> valve on until angle reached
[18:38:33] <adoyle88> How would I specify the target angle in my G code?
[18:38:47] <pcw_home> yeah maybe classic ladder if your a ladder type of guy
[18:39:23] <_methods> http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?User_Defined_Gcodes
[18:39:30] <_methods> you may need to create a custom gcode
[18:39:37] <adoyle88> That sounds perfect
[18:39:39] <_methods> with your variables in there
[18:39:48] <adoyle88> how do you find this stuff?
[18:39:53] <_methods> hehe google
[18:40:01] <pcw_home> yeah that would be ideal (the gcode can pause)
[18:40:48] <_methods> you could set your pipe/tubing diameter in there too
[18:40:53] <adoyle88> It'd be great to just customize the g code in such a way that I could write z90 and it would turn on the output pin and watch the encoder until it got to 90
[18:40:56] <_methods> that way you could record typical bends
[18:41:20] <_methods> then just make a gcode with all your params in there
[18:43:28] <_methods> http://linuxcnc.org/docs/html/remap/structure.html#_getting_started_a_id_remap_getting_started_a
[18:43:39] <_methods> you can remap gcodes too for your specific purpose
[18:46:54] <adoyle88> that would run a subroutine that is another chunk of gcode?
[18:47:30] <_methods> http://linuxcnc.org/docs/html/remap/structure.html
[18:47:39] <_methods> you can totally remap existing gcodes
[18:47:53] <_methods> program them with python or c believe
[18:47:58] <_methods> i've never actually done it
[18:48:08] <_methods> but if i were doing what you are that's where i'd be looking
[18:48:48] <_methods> unallocated m and g codes are listed there
[18:49:45] <adoyle88> can python call hal files?
[18:53:13] <adoyle88> I feel like my brain is being stretched to its limits
[18:53:31] <_methods> yeah it's a lot to take in
[18:53:36] <MacGalempsy> hello
[18:55:00] <bobo_> hello to you
[18:55:43] <CaptHindsight> hah good for a chuckle
http://disinfo.com/2013/07/can-vortex-mathematics-lead-to-free-energy-or-is-it-just-more-fluff/
[18:55:46] <furrywolf> blah! I bought a really nice electric heater at a yard sale, but it seems to have a ground fault.
[18:56:03] <furrywolf> 26K hot to case.
[18:56:21] <CaptHindsight> furrywolf: every used machine I've ever gotten has that or similar wiring issues
[18:57:10] <furrywolf> I've never bought something with a ground fault before. heh.
[18:57:18] <furrywolf> it trips my gfci after about a minute
[18:57:48] <furrywolf> the heating element is a huge cast aluminum thing... most likely not replacable.
[18:57:49] <adoyle88> I think I might just bail and take a more physical approach: Stepper motor will turn a wheel to the required angle. When the wheel turns, it will trigger a switch that turns on the hydraulics. The switch remains on until it catches back up the wheel.
[18:58:41] <_methods> that's what i'd do if i wanted to make it happen with the least work
[18:58:51] <adoyle88> then the same thing in reverse with another switch
[18:59:02] <_methods> and happen fast
[18:59:22] <furrywolf> I still like my idea of using it as a torque-mode servo... but rather than running a motor, it actuates the hydraulics.
[18:59:35] <adoyle88> I can't figure out how to do that :(
[18:59:58] <furrywolf> he said it worked fine, and sure enough, it works fine as long as you don't hook it up to a gfci outlet... I should note his house (he even plugged it in to demonstate) had only ungrounded outlets all of which had the little grey no-ground adapters in them...
[19:00:13] <adoyle88> I tried to learn from the etch.hal but couldn't figure out how to adapt it
[19:00:25] <furrywolf> so he was using it ungrounded. running it ungrounded, I measure 69V from case to neutral...
[19:01:11] <CaptHindsight> people tend to confuse a neutral with a ground
[19:02:59] <furrywolf> there was no confusion... he simply had an ungrounded house, and was plugging grounded appliances in, with no grounds.
[19:03:57] <furrywolf> I can't find anything about the heater online... it's a singer model aat-15(7?)A. the second to last digit is damaged and not readable, but kinda looks like it might have been a 7.
[19:06:30] <furrywolf> it's obviously military, and built like the proverbial tank...
[19:07:03] <adoyle88> in torque mode I wouldn't be specifying velocity?
[19:07:38] <furrywolf> no
[19:07:39] <adoyle88> just an on off signal?
[19:08:06] <furrywolf> torque mode means linuxcnc would be directly driving a motor until the encoder reads the position it wants.
[19:08:23] <furrywolf> velocity mode means linuxcnc talks to a controller than regulates the velocity for linuxcnc
[19:08:31] <adoyle88> ok
[19:08:59] <adoyle88> would I control it with a command such as z90 to get a 90 degree reading on an encoder on the z axis?
[19:09:19] <adoyle88> or would I use one of the aux outputs like coolant?
[19:10:14] <_methods> couldn't you use spindle orient for this?
[19:10:41] <_methods> http://linuxcnc.org/docs/html/man/man9/orient.9.html
[19:12:31] <furrywolf> blah! letting the heater warm up made it get even worse... 2.2K hot-ground, 118V on the case.
[19:12:45] <furrywolf> you'd probably want to use a rotary axis, like A or B.
[19:12:48] <furrywolf> rather than Z
[19:13:01] <furrywolf> yes, you might be able to use spindle too
[19:14:36] <adoyle88> that seems promising
[19:14:44] <furrywolf> what do I do with this heater now? it seems to work fine as long as it's on a non-gfci outlet, but it has non-trivial leakage...
[19:15:06] <furrywolf> I could attempt to mount the heater assembly on ceramic bushings are let it be live...
[19:15:29] <Cromaglious> ground the hell out of it.. check the resistance between the leads and the case
[19:16:35] <furrywolf> that won't fix the problem. the problem is the heating element has a ground fauilt.
[19:16:37] <furrywolf> fault
[19:18:49] <furrywolf> yay, found that it does, indeed, exist. See page 51 of
https://books.google.com/books?id=Ns8XAAAAYAAJ&pg=PA51-IA14&lpg=PA51-IA14&dq=electromode+%22AAT%22+heater&source=bl&ots=-xJQ72qopi&sig=0AyqUec39VNEyzLZpfV8VC-CRTA&hl=en&sa=X&ei=Wp77VOHiNNXnoASqyIHAAQ&ved=0CCQQ6AEwAQ#v=onepage&q=electromode%20%22AAT%22%20heater&f=false
[19:18:54] <furrywolf> ouch, ugly url. sorry.
[19:20:32] <furrywolf> or maybe it's page 44. google is saying it's page 51, but it keeps saying page 51 even as I scroll to other pages.
[19:20:47] <furrywolf> the book page number is 44
[19:21:00] <adoyle88> Is PID only for velocity control? I noticed in the etch.hal file it used PID to determine a velocity. I only need on-off.
[19:22:31] <furrywolf> pid will generate either a velocity or a torque depending on if you're in velocity or torque mode... you'd need to convert that to on/off. I don't know how, however.
[19:23:37] <adoyle88> ok
[19:25:13] <furrywolf> grrrrrr. I hate google. hate, hate. it says there's a free ebook. you click the free ebook link, it takes you to a page that says you need to sign in to purchase it.
[19:25:53] <Crom> you check torrent sites for a copy?
[19:26:40] <furrywolf> torrent doesn't work here.
[19:29:04] <Crom> Sister-n-law just closed escrow on a house in Carson City
[19:30:11] <Crom> which makes it nice, since I can then go see my folks in Richmond, then go up to Carson City
[19:32:12] <Crom> well I got my breakout and drivers working with the steppers I hav, now I just have to figure out timing. the NEMA17's are getting really hot so I also have to figure that out
[19:33:39] <Crom> using the one relay mach3 interface board and TB6560 single axis drivers
[19:34:35] <adoyle88> my stepper motor seems to be getting hot too. How hot is too hot?
[19:34:41] <adoyle88> I can hold my hand on
[19:35:00] <_methods> thats normal
[19:35:14] <_methods> if you can't put your hand on it you probably have a problem
[19:36:17] <Crom> too hot, so something is not set right
[19:37:06] <Crom> the current letoff should be set to 0,20,50,or 100%
[19:37:10] <furrywolf> I wish I could afford a house.
[19:37:41] <Crom> $76000 for 6 acres and a house with no windows, electrical wiring or plumbing
[19:37:53] <Crom> that's the carson city house
[19:38:26] <furrywolf> http://fw.bushytails.net/Electromode%20AAT-15A.png the only information I've been able to find on the heater
[19:38:38] <furrywolf> the giant cast aluminum heating element seems to have a ground fault
[19:39:05] <Crom> ahhh bathroom heater
[19:39:13] <furrywolf> no
[19:41:48] <furrywolf> sec, reuploading with dotted lines removed
[19:43:52] <Crom> what kind of heater is that?
[19:44:14] <furrywolf> it's military, out of a radio shelter.
[19:44:15] <Crom> I'm on my phone so the pictures are a bit small to read
[19:44:35] <Crom> ahhh so basically it IS a bathroom heater
[19:45:32] <furrywolf> it's a bathroom heater, made out of 14 gauge steel, with controls that even a soldier can't break, with every part overengineer, and industrial thermostat with copper bulb instead of bimetal coil, etc.
[19:47:06] <Crom> the heating elements are contained within the AL radiator?
[19:47:48] <furrywolf> yep
[19:47:55] <furrywolf> appears to have been cast around them.
[19:48:01] <Crom> ala coffee maker
[19:48:36] <furrywolf> dunno, never taken a coffee maker apart... I don't drink coffee.
[19:49:26] <Crom> I tend to drink chai myself
[19:49:56] <furrywolf> there's more pictures in the book, but manually stitching screenshots was getting very annoying.
[19:50:30] <furrywolf> and the other two are for a slightly different model
[19:50:45] <Crom> hmmm isolating the radiator with bakelight or mica?
[19:51:29] <furrywolf> <furrywolf> I could attempt to mount the heater assembly on ceramic bushings are let it be live...
[19:52:26] <furrywolf> it is, by far, the heaviest-duty space heater I've ever seen... but even with it plugged into a non-gfci outlet, where it appears to function normally, it has enough of a ground fault it probably shouldn't be used.
[19:52:33] <furrywolf> and I spent $20 for it. :(
[19:52:38] <Crom> there is that... I tend to be old school... bakelite and mica is machinable, ceramic tends to be what you get
[19:54:02] <furrywolf> http://www.ebay.com/itm/Electromode-Model-WJA-13-Heater-/321663762372 that looks like the same element...
[19:54:54] <furrywolf> but that's a 13 instead of a 15, 1320W instead of 1500W, so may be a slightly different size or something... and it's a lot more money than I want to spent.
[19:54:55] <furrywolf> spend
[19:55:16] <furrywolf> I already spent too much buying it, just because I really wanted a nice industrial-duty heater... you can buy a brand new crap heater for what I spent for this one.
[19:55:36] <Crom> isolate the hell out of it... and run it until it dies
[19:56:21] <pcw_home> sure its the element thats leaky?
[19:56:48] <furrywolf> pcw_home: infinite hot-case resistance if I click the thermostat off
[19:57:28] <pcw_home> and you have run it? (in case its waterlogged)
[19:57:55] <furrywolf> isolating the heating element is easier said than done... I'd need to move the fan back before I can move the element back, and it's not touch-safe, in that you can touch it through the front.
[19:58:01] <furrywolf> yes. it gets worse the hotter it gets.
[19:58:25] <furrywolf> I ran it for about 15 minutes, with the case sitting at 118V...
[19:59:01] <pcw_home> well case sitting at 118 means the short is close to one end
[19:59:39] <furrywolf> it was sitting consistently at 69V before. it might have multiple faults.
[20:00:42] <pcw_home> maybe just a winged $20 :-(
[20:01:44] <furrywolf> that's a lot of money to waste... I only spent it because I wanted a working space heater.
[20:01:54] <furrywolf> I even made him plug it in to show me it worked before I spent that much money.
[20:03:27] <Crom> sheeshz.... The Harrison Ford crash too many people are having fun with it
[20:03:53] <furrywolf> his house was all ungrounded wiring, with the little grey no-ground adapters everywhere... we plugged it into one of them, and sure 'nuff, it worked fine. heh.
[20:05:41] <pcw_home> ground it, it will either get better or worse :-)
[20:05:59] <Crom> stick it on a 1:1 isolation transformer then stick it under a upside shopping cart thats grounded
[20:06:22] <furrywolf> heh, I haven't tried that. the outlet I have it on has a gfci, which just trips if I connect the ground.
[20:06:56] * furrywolf googles the crash
[20:07:08] <furrywolf> he landed a plane on a GOLF COURSE. this is not exactly a crash landing.
[20:08:14] <furrywolf> look up bush pilot landings for some actually impressive other-than-hard-surface landings.
[20:08:37] <Crom> hmmm trying to figure out where to eat out tonight... Old Town is definately out... Rod Run is happening so it's crazy down there
[20:09:07] <furrywolf> eating out is expensive. eat in.
[20:09:28] <Crom> We have gift certs
[20:09:48] <furrywolf> how the heck do you get free gift certs? heh
[20:10:02] <Crom> wife traded in her Ace bucks and got gift cards
[20:10:18] * furrywolf wants free food
[20:10:31] <Crom> the Attaboy program Ace Hardware has
[20:10:44] <furrywolf> never heard of it
[20:11:09] <Crom> for employees
[20:11:19] <furrywolf> ace here just has some rewards program where every x dollars you spend (something like $2,500) they send you a $5 coupon, not even beginning to cover how much higher their prices are than every other store.
[20:12:11] <Crom> that's for customers...
[20:12:39] <furrywolf> I know lots of people who used to work for ace, and now do not. maybe it's just the local stores that suck. lol
[20:13:49] <Crom> no it's by the franchise which can suck...
[20:15:30] <furrywolf> can you re-bend pre-shaped heating elements from water heaters etc?
[20:19:45] <zeeshan> :D
[20:20:04] <zeeshan> never running firefox again
[20:20:09] <zeeshan> garbage browser
[20:20:37] <Crom_> I need to get a cell phone booster for the house
[20:22:39] <Crom_> Or add a yagi to extend my wifi out to the intersection where cell signal picks up
[20:24:34] <Crom_> Now i not ed to start building a table for my router
[20:25:27] <Crom_> S/not ed/need/
[20:26:37] <Crom_> Gonna do a simple table using 3.8
[20:27:26] <Crom_> 3/8-16 all thread for my screw
[20:28:01] <Crom_> Delrin muts
[20:30:14] <Crom_> Somethings good enough and big enough to build a bigger table
[20:33:53] <furrywolf> the ground fault current is remarkably proportional to temperature.
[20:34:40] <furrywolf> using a nightlight bulb as a shunt between case and ground and measuring the voltage across it, it starts out at around 0.1V when cold, and climbs as it warms up... around 2.5V on it now, slowly rising...
[20:35:37] <furrywolf> using the bulb as a shunt so it won't melt if it suddenly fails dead shorted...
[20:35:51] <alex4nder> you mean besides the fact the resistance increases in the bulb?
[20:35:57] <furrywolf> 7.3V, still climbing...
[20:36:00] <alex4nder> (as it warms up)
[20:36:31] <furrywolf> the filament isn't heating at 0.1V. lol
[20:36:43] <furrywolf> and this agrees with why my gfci took a minute to trip, not instant
[20:36:50] <alex4nder> are you measuring across the bulb?
[20:36:55] <furrywolf> 10V, bulb might start glowing soon...
[20:36:55] <furrywolf> yes
[20:37:06] <alex4nder> measuring 0.1V across it just means the bulb is a dead short when cold
[20:37:24] <furrywolf> I just wanted a simple way to see how bad the ground fault is. that it's managing to put >10V across a light bulb means it's pretty damn bad.
[20:37:41] <furrywolf> I'd need to put a meter in series to measure the actual fault current, but "pretty damn bad" is a good enough measurement for me.
[20:37:54] <alex4nder> alright.
[20:39:16] <alex4nder> hmm, anyone know if it's common to grind mic6 to tolerance before machining it?
[20:39:58] <alex4nder> I want to make a tooling plate, and I'd like better than .015" flatness
[20:40:58] <furrywolf> a 4W light bulb, fully warmed up, is 3.6kohms. presumably it's much lower cold. with its current voltage of 13V across it, even pretending the filament was hot, that's still 4ma...
[20:41:26] <furrywolf> I guess I should get an actual measurement. need to find more jumpers.
[20:42:34] <furrywolf> crappy HF meters don't measure ac amps...
[20:43:55] <furrywolf> 8ma
[20:44:34] <furrywolf> and that's with the light bulb still in series, so I don't blow my meter fuse if it decides to short hard.
[20:45:10] <furrywolf> 10.5ma, rising
[20:45:35] <furrywolf> why does it vary so smoothly with temperature?
[20:46:15] <furrywolf> I'd figure it either has a fault or it doesn't, but it's really a remarkably smooth, linear current increase as it warms up.
[20:46:20] <furrywolf> no jumps at all
[20:46:31] <Jymmm> what is?
[20:47:15] <furrywolf> Jymmm: I bought an electric heater at a yard sale where the heater element seems to have a ground fault
[20:47:42] <Jymmm> check the control, they usually fail the most
[20:47:45] <renesis> scary
[20:48:04] <furrywolf> no, it doesn't seem to be the control. if I cycle the thermostat off, the fault goes away.
[20:48:18] <Jymmm> right
[20:48:26] <furrywolf> it's a sealed heating element cast into a giant aluminum radiator assembley
[20:48:39] <Jymmm> 1/2" rod?
[20:48:59] <Jymmm> apx
[20:49:06] <furrywolf> http://fw.bushytails.net/Electromode%20AAT-15A.png the only documentation I could find about it
[20:49:28] <renesis> wtf that thing looks like death
[20:49:31] <pcw_home> runt it hot for a while, may bake out ...
[20:50:30] <Jymmm> furrywolf: bypass the thermostat and see if you still have the short
[20:50:34] <furrywolf> pcw_home: trying that now, but my batteries are pretty low. will have to wait for a sunny day to run it much longer.
[20:50:51] <furrywolf> FN port 3, A -81.5A (enabled), B 0.0A (disabled), C 0.0A (disabled), batt 22.3V, btemp 99.0C, SOC 70.0%, flags 0x08, extra id 4, data 0.00.
[20:50:58] <furrywolf> 22.3V is not good for a 24V bank. heh.
[20:51:07] <pcw_home> yeah tomorrow
[20:51:43] <furrywolf> one thing about solar power is you can only use electric heaters on cold but sunny days, not not-as-cold and cloudy days. heh.
[20:52:20] <Jymmm> furrywolf: if you unplug the heating element from everything else, it should read about 12 to 15 ohms
[20:52:21] <furrywolf> Jymmm: it's a nice industrial thermostat, and I don't think it's the source of the leakage.
[20:52:38] <furrywolf> sealed heating elements ground-faulting is a pretty common problem...
[20:53:06] <furrywolf> it does seem to be slowly going back down.... reached 14ma and started dropping.
[20:53:18] <furrywolf> could be it got moisture in it that needs to bake out
[20:54:17] <furrywolf> renesis: what do you mean by "looks like death"? it's the safest heater I've seen!
[20:54:59] <furrywolf> it's all metal, and the hot bits are cast in even more metal. I doubt the big aluminum thing could get hot enough to ignite stuff even if the fan failed, and it has a thermal breaker anyway...
[20:55:59] <renesis> looks 200 years old, wouldnt even trust the wire
[20:56:06] <furrywolf> http://fw.bushytails.net/vornado02.jpg THAT is in unsafe heater. It'd made entirely out of flammable plastic, with a bare wire element.
[20:56:28] <furrywolf> http://fw.bushytails.net/vornado01.jpg did THAT after about a month of occasional use.
[20:57:28] <furrywolf> wire is fiberglass over still-good insulation. mains cord has been replaced with 14/3 soow and a commercial-grade plug. all the internal wiring is well-done, supported by rubber-lined clips, and connected with terminals to terminal blocks.
[20:58:52] <furrywolf> this is Your Tax Dollars At Work. they spared no expense on it. it's built from quality components, assembled well.
[20:59:54] <renesis> wtf furry i think you have power issues
[21:00:05] <furrywolf> renesis: ?
[21:00:42] <renesis> wtf did you do to that heater
[21:00:45] <furrywolf> the burnt heater has been recalled by the manufacturer due to the number of house fires it caused... not just my power.
[21:00:56] <renesis> nice
[21:01:08] <renesis> and i got one thats cheap ass stomped metal and nichrome ribbon
[21:01:14] <renesis> and i got tile floors
[21:01:35] <renesis> shit could get stuck on and itd prob be fine
[21:01:51] <furrywolf> in fact, they've been recalled about TEN TIMES. because every time the cpsc orders a recall, they just release a "new and improved" version with another digit on the model number, and sell that one for a year until the cpsc orders it recalled too.
[21:02:44] <furrywolf> http://www.cpsc.gov/en/Recalls/2014/Vornado-Air-Recalls-Electric-Space-Heaters/ most recent recall
[21:03:02] <furrywolf> that's from a newer model than the one we had burn
[21:03:27] <furrywolf> "Vornado has received 29 reports of units overheating and melting, including seven reports of heaters catching fire"
[21:03:50] <furrywolf> the moral of the story is to not, under any circumstances, buy a heater made of plastic.
[21:04:02] <furrywolf> flammable plastic and heating elements are a bad mix.
[21:04:13] <furrywolf> this one is made of 14 gauge steel. it ain't melting. :)
[21:07:44] <furrywolf> fault current down to 4.76ma... I think the needs-to-bake theory is a good one. but, the red light on my inverter is now on, so I'm killing it.
[21:12:03] <furrywolf> the element consists of a center conductor inside a steel tube, lined with something that looks like cement... I guess that can soak up moisture?
[21:13:16] <furrywolf> I wonder if I should let it bake well, then seal the ends with silicone or something...
[21:13:24] <pcw_home> yeah and with the big radiator it probably does not run terribly hot
[21:15:49] <furrywolf> I probably never would have noticed anything if I didn't plug it into a gfci outlet. lol
[21:16:46] <pcw_home> might have been stored somewhere damp for years
[21:17:36] <furrywolf> the only place here that's not damp is... dunno. inside an electric oven? heh
[21:23:56] <furrywolf> pcw_home: so do mesa boards ever go on sale? black friday? 50% off coupons like harbor freight? :)
[21:23:59] <pcw_home> Not sure we will get much more rain but weed season here which is nice
[21:24:01] <pcw_home> because theres no need to buy greens for our pet rabbits:
[21:24:02] <pcw_home> Ox tongue, fennel, sow thistle, Filaree, wild radish, wild mustard,
[21:24:04] <pcw_home> plantain, bull mallow etc etc
[21:24:32] <pcw_home> I will have some protos soon
[21:25:04] <furrywolf> supposed to rain here next wednesday. we get a lot of rain.
[21:25:24] <furrywolf> next on wednesday, that is. not the next wednesday.
[21:25:32] <pcw_home> Northern CA?
[21:26:18] <furrywolf> far northern california. six plus hours north of what most people think of as northern california.
[21:26:50] <pcw_home> Yeah a lot of CA rain is only in the north
[21:27:15] <pcw_home> we're in SFBA
[21:27:18] <furrywolf> san francisco is positively hot, sunny, and fogless compared to here. :P
[21:28:15] <pcw_home> Had an Uncle that lived in Crescent city for a while
[21:29:11] <furrywolf> crescent city is still warmer than here. heh. Eureka area.
[21:31:18] <pcw_home> Ha last time I was up there I rode a Motorcycle up highway 1
[21:32:12] <furrywolf> no highway 1 past fort bragg... meets up with 101 around willits, then you take 101 up the coast.
[21:32:31] <pcw_home> Yeah
[21:34:58] <furrywolf> the gap between where 1 leaves the coast and 101 hits the coast is called the lost coast... because there's no access to it unless you're adventuresome.
[21:36:12] <pcw_home> must have been 30 years ago
[21:36:32] <furrywolf> so you haven't been up here in a while. lol
[21:38:12] <pcw_home> up to Jenner or so more recently
[21:38:16] <zeeshan> i love CHROME!!!
[21:38:23] <zeeshan> only consuming 50mb of memory
[21:38:32] <zeeshan> vs firefox pos eating 540mb
[21:42:04] <MacGalempsy> sweetness! finally got the tool changes components to function through pyvcp
[21:42:24] <zeeshan> https://books.google.ca/books?id=up5KS9fd_pkC&pg=PT1&lpg=PT1&dq=atlas+of+stress+strain+curves+pdf&source=bl&ots=ezdRlTLj4s&sig=xK5WI2_yTdMnqLSGa0cijoCAgR0&hl=en&sa=X&ei=yKz7VL3cHNGXyASPvIKABQ&ved=0CC0Q6AEwAw#v=onepage&q=atlas%20of%20stress%20strain%20curves%20pdf&f=false
[21:42:29] <zeeshan> anyone know how to download this book from here?
[21:46:15] <furrywolf> try
http://k2s.cc/file/c35d4c9de02e6/087170739X_Atlas.pdf
[21:46:55] <furrywolf> use "slow speed download" link at bottom of spam
[21:47:08] <MacGalempsy> zeeshan: if you have an android phone, could download it with the Play Books
[21:47:11] <zeeshan> i dl'ed it
[21:47:16] <zeeshan> but that version is bad quality
[21:47:19] <zeeshan> :/
[21:49:01] <furrywolf> I don't see any other downloadable versions, but I'm not an expert and finding such things.
[21:58:28] <furrywolf> http://downloadb0x.info/atlas-of-stress-strain-curves-2nd-edition/ probably same version
[21:59:23] <furrywolf> brb
[21:59:58] <furrywolf> an ambulance just went up the road and turned around
[22:01:15] <furrywolf> none of those seem to work either. skip that url.
[22:04:51] <zeeshan> hm
[22:05:10] <zeeshan> its quite hard to find a good source
[22:05:13] <zeeshan> for stress-strain curves
[22:05:14] <MacGalempsy> so whats going on zeeshan?
[22:05:19] <zeeshan> not much, you?
[22:05:47] <MacGalempsy> making progress, so will be back to mounting relays
[22:06:03] <zeeshan> :D
[22:06:07] <zeeshan> ive been working on my lathe
[22:06:10] <zeeshan> and car at the same time
[22:06:10] <furrywolf> I need to make an enclosure, but real life is kinda in the way of cnc projects right now.
[22:06:19] <zeeshan> bullshit pulley
[22:06:22] <zeeshan> is slipping on the flat
[22:06:26] <MacGalempsy> working the lath to make car parts?
[22:06:27] <zeeshan> cause its a dinky ass set screw.
[22:06:31] <zeeshan> MacGalempsy: nahh
[22:06:36] <zeeshan> finished building the transmission
[22:06:49] <zeeshan> rechecked preloads on the taper bearings
[22:06:54] <zeeshan> everything seems nice
[22:07:11] <MacGalempsy> did you regear it?
[22:07:23] <zeeshan> replaced some things with stronger parts
[22:07:28] <zeeshan> things that typically break on em
[22:07:35] <zeeshan> and replaced some worn synchronizers
[22:07:46] <zeeshan> and ended up replacing all the bearings too
[22:07:52] <zeeshan> the old ones looked fine..
[22:08:02] <zeeshan> but blah, the trans had 100,000 miles on it
[22:08:06] <zeeshan> and bearings need replaceemnt :P
[22:08:15] <MacGalempsy> yeah, once you go in, its better to change everything you can
[22:08:58] <furrywolf> ... what do you drive that has such a crap tranny that it needs a rebuild at 100k?
[22:09:14] <zeeshan> 700 hp will blow up a lot of transmissions
[22:09:22] <MacGalempsy> thats what I was thinking
[22:09:27] <furrywolf> that just means you need a bigger tranny. :P
[22:09:29] <zeeshan> it didnt blow up
[22:09:39] <zeeshan> i just did precautinary work on it
[22:09:44] <MacGalempsy> furrywolf: your the biggest tranny we know
[22:09:45] <zeeshan> and did upgrades
[22:09:46] <MacGalempsy> :P
[22:09:48] <zeeshan> LOL
[22:10:01] <furrywolf> I saw an Allison the other day that you could fit a 55gal drum inside the housing...
[22:10:26] <furrywolf> at least someone said it was an allison, I didn't look closely.
[22:10:34] <furrywolf> was at a local heavy equipment shop
[22:11:10] <MacGalempsy> zeeshan: did you replace the clutch, too?
[22:11:15] <zeeshan> no
[22:11:16] <zeeshan> its fine
[22:11:23] <zeeshan> only had 5k miles on it
[22:11:32] <zeeshan> inspected the flywheel too
[22:11:33] <zeeshan> looked good
[22:11:55] <MacGalempsy> so what kind of 1/4 mile do you run in that beast?
[22:11:56] <furrywolf> if the rivets still have heads, the clutch is perfect. :)
[22:12:13] <furrywolf> my jeep can do a quarter mile in under a minute! :P
[22:12:28] <MacGalempsy> haha. yeah, the fj40 is under 5 min
[22:12:42] <zeeshan> 10.4 @ 134 on a good day
[22:12:48] <zeeshan> ^ best time
[22:12:52] <MacGalempsy> nice
[22:12:58] <MacGalempsy> you ever use torque pro?
[22:12:58] <furrywolf> nothing like a 6500lb truck with 120hp... or, at least, 120hp back when the engine was new...
[22:13:08] <zeeshan> but it varies between high 10s to mid 11s
[22:13:10] <zeeshan> depending on the tires
[22:13:20] <zeeshan> i dont really drag much either
[22:13:29] <zeeshan> whats torque pro
[22:13:48] <furrywolf> my subaru is pretty zippy now, but it's definitely not a racecar.
[22:13:56] <furrywolf> 140hp in 2100lbs...
[22:14:02] <zeeshan> that must be fun
[22:14:16] <furrywolf> it's a noticable upgrade over the stock 83hp, yes.
[22:14:41] <furrywolf> I still need an exhaust. can't really drive it with just the cats...
[22:19:33] <zeeshan> http://www.matweb.com/search/DataSheet.aspx?MatGUID=9cadda3d6a514a6ea50c083ea83b4aaa
[22:19:40] <zeeshan> im trying to figure out what material to make my pull studs with
[22:19:48] <zeeshan> they commonly make them out of 8620 steel
[22:19:55] <zeeshan> with rockwell c hardness of 48~
[22:20:05] <furrywolf> isn't that something you normally buy?
[22:20:11] <zeeshan> im being cheap
[22:20:12] <zeeshan> :)
[22:20:18] <zeeshan> i need like 20
[22:20:22] <zeeshan> i cant really afford 20$ a pop
[22:20:25] <zeeshan> at that rate..
[22:20:38] <zeeshan> i can make them on them on the lathe
[22:20:43] <zeeshan> and heat treat at school
[22:20:51] <zeeshan> for likely $50..
[22:20:57] <zeeshan> for 60 of them
[22:21:11] <zeeshan> ive got it all CAD'd
[22:21:13] <zeeshan> and cam'ed
[22:21:19] <zeeshan> just need to figure out material and heat treat routine
[22:21:34] <zeeshan> i know the stress with no safety factor is around 34000psi
[22:21:44] <zeeshan> at the stress concentration areas of the pull stud
[22:22:00] <zeeshan> id like to have a safety factor of at least 3-4
[22:22:24] <furrywolf> can't help there... I suck at FEA, alloys, and heat treatments.
[22:24:00] <zeeshan> my only problem with 4140
[22:24:08] <zeeshan> is its izod impact specs..
[22:24:12] <zeeshan> 9J .. weak sauce
[22:27:51] <MacGalempsy> make a product out of free material, sell, then buy the stuff you need
[22:29:35] <zeeshan> lol
[22:29:54] <zeeshan> sometimes i wish i didnt go to school
[22:30:00] <zeeshan> i spend too much time worrying about shit
[22:30:06] <zeeshan> "WILL THIS MATERIAL FAIL"
[22:30:10] <zeeshan> "WHAT IF THIS HAPPENS"
[22:30:12] <zeeshan> ..
[22:30:13] <zeeshan> :)
[22:30:21] <zeeshan> before school life was easy
[22:30:26] <zeeshan> "weld this 10x thicker"
[22:30:28] <zeeshan> call it a day
[22:30:35] <zeeshan> thats how my old eclipse was built
[22:30:36] <zeeshan> haha
[22:30:46] <zeeshan> some things, i dont know how the hell they survived.
[22:36:12] <MacGalempsy> the secret to engineering is overengineering
[22:37:33] * furrywolf thought the secret was to be in china and out of range of the lawyers of your customers
[22:38:20] <zeeshan> :)
[22:41:28] <MacGalempsy> you got that right. or in vietnam or russia
[22:47:05] <furrywolf> http://www.z-light.com.cn/d/file/product/newseries/dengsi/20140217/105lmZR39WWV5C21001.pdf actual specs for chinese "led filaments". not bad.
[22:48:12] <furrywolf> http://www.designingwithleds.com/novel-led-packaging-adds-filaments-retro-bulbs/
[22:51:08] <Crom> weeeee
[22:52:04] <Crom> mmmm Macaroni grill 1300 calories of yummyness
[22:52:34] <Crom> plus 2 pieces of bread their crappy coffee
[22:52:43] <Crom> and their crappy coffee
[22:53:31] <zeeshan> FINALLY
[22:53:34] <zeeshan> FOUND A GOOD BOOK!!!!!!!!!!!
[22:53:37] <zeeshan> http://www.akronsteeltreating.com/docs/default-source/default-document-library/ast-book.pdf?sfvrsn=0
[22:55:23] <bobo_> zeeshan: check out
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sFrVdoOhu1Q , for that next cnc lathe design/build .
[22:55:47] <zeeshan> dude
[22:55:49] <zeeshan> this guy is a genious.
[22:55:55] <zeeshan> his steam engine designs are amazing
[22:56:53] <Crom> that is a good book
[22:56:58] * furrywolf notes that steam engines aren't currently used much, turbines having been shown to be lighter, more efficient, more reliable, cheaper,...
[22:57:12] <zeeshan> hes a professor mech eng
[22:57:13] <zeeshan> @ ubc
[22:58:01] <zeeshan> has like 100 patents
[22:58:24] <bobo_> i thought that shop was his home shop
[22:58:27] <zeeshan> no lol
[22:58:45] <zeeshan> i actually emailed him
[22:58:50] <zeeshan> about his valve design for his steam engine
[22:58:53] <zeeshan> when i was working on my capstone
[22:59:17] <Crom> yeah, a 3" diameter turbine with several sections will turn out a gob of power on 60# of steam
[22:59:30] <zeeshan> that camera is cool
[23:00:00] <furrywolf> I've been tempted to build a steam engine using off-the-shelf solenoid valves. (asco redhat to be specific)
[23:00:08] <zeeshan> furrywolf:
[23:00:09] <zeeshan> you cant
[23:00:12] <zeeshan> theyre too slow
[23:00:19] <furrywolf> and an encoder and a little uC to drive them
[23:00:24] <zeeshan> they're ven slower
[23:00:29] <zeeshan> if you attach them to a standard poppet valve
[23:00:31] <furrywolf> ... 100rpm is considered high-speed for some engines. :P
[23:01:10] <furrywolf> also, from my experience with pneumatics, you can get surprisingly fast valves
[23:01:18] <zeeshan> thats still 500 ms
[23:01:26] <zeeshan> thats dooable
[23:01:32] <furrywolf> I have some 20ms air valves.
[23:01:57] <zeeshan> now the thing is
[23:02:04] <furrywolf> no complicated valve linkages, just wires... infinite precise control of cutoff...
[23:02:07] <zeeshan> with steam engines youre not going to be injecting for the entire duration of the stroke.
[23:02:12] <zeeshan> you wanna inject for about 10%
[23:02:15] <zeeshan> to 15%
[23:02:22] <zeeshan> to allow the steam to expand and do work
[23:02:38] <zeeshan> .15 * 500 ms = 75ms
[23:02:47] <zeeshan> so those 20 ms air valves will _just_ cut it
[23:02:48] <zeeshan> for 100 rpm
[23:02:51] <bobo_> his steam engine ---- unsure why it has popet valve on piston head , thought piston rear side was open to air
[23:02:58] <furrywolf> no, you want to inject for a variable amount that sets the power/efficiency tradeoff. 100% cutoff is the most power, but utter shit efficiency. 5% might give you full expension, and the most efficiency, but at very low power...
[23:02:58] <zeeshan> bobo_:
[23:03:03] <zeeshan> his valve design is GENious
[23:03:16] <zeeshan> furrywolf:
[23:03:17] <zeeshan> like i said
[23:03:18] <zeeshan> 10-15%
[23:03:22] <zeeshan> max 25% is acceptable
[23:03:24] <zeeshan> for a balance of both
[23:03:34] <zeeshan> bobo_: do you understand how his valve works?
[23:03:38] <zeeshan> its so stupid smart.
[23:03:49] <furrywolf> what is the url of this valve/engineer you're talking about?
[23:04:02] <zeeshan> i dunno bobo posted a video of him working on a lathe
[23:04:10] <furrywolf> oh, no wonder I didn't see it.
[23:04:19] <zeeshan> ??
[23:04:20] <bobo_> inlet section yes/ i think
[23:04:34] <zeeshan> bobo_: its electromagnetic..
[23:04:43] <bobo_> right
[23:04:46] <furrywolf> I ignore anything that looks like a video unless it's directed directly to me.
[23:04:50] <zeeshan> but the thing is, he's not using electromagnetism to move the valve
[23:05:00] <zeeshan> he's using a mechanical pin attached on a pin of a piston
[23:05:04] <zeeshan> to bump open a valve
[23:05:11] <zeeshan> and uses the magnetic field to hold the valve in place
[23:05:12] <bobo_> right
[23:05:13] <zeeshan> _genious_
[23:05:25] <zeeshan> you can go to 8,000 rpm with his engine no problem
[23:05:29] <furrywolf> that design, using standard springs, is common on CO2 engines and such.
[23:05:37] <furrywolf> it's not that great.
[23:05:39] <zeeshan> since you can energize the mag field
[23:05:40] <bobo_> and can affect cutoff
[23:05:44] <zeeshan> at almost .7C
[23:05:47] <zeeshan> yea
[23:05:50] <zeeshan> and adjust cutt off on the fly.
[23:06:02] <zeeshan> it was the best valve design i came across
[23:06:16] <zeeshan> he has a patent
[23:06:35] <zeeshan> i tried to make something similar
[23:06:36] <zeeshan> with success
[23:06:51] <furrywolf> the advantage of my design is you can build it all with spare parts and minimal fab work. :P
[23:07:06] <zeeshan> furrywolf: we had very specific goals
[23:07:07] <bobo_> the exhaust --- somewhat sounds like 2-cycle
[23:07:14] <furrywolf> also, to note, I've seen an asco redhat based steam engine running. (well, video thereof).
[23:07:16] <zeeshan> we were tryng to get the best effifiency possible
[23:07:20] <zeeshan> our pistons were made out of ceramic
[23:07:23] <furrywolf> I like the redhat valves myself, probably have a half dozen.
[23:07:25] <zeeshan> and so was the cylinder chamber
[23:07:38] <zeeshan> to minimize condensation of steam
[23:07:46] <furrywolf> heh, I have some graphite-on-glass air cylinders.
[23:08:27] <zeeshan> bobo_: what's cool is you can use an electronic pedal
[23:08:36] <zeeshan> and drive his engine in a regular car :)
[23:09:14] <bobo_> graphite-on-glass air cylinders = hot air design engine
[23:09:20] <zeeshan> i really love steam engines
[23:09:32] <zeeshan> because you dont need fancy combustible material
[23:09:37] <zeeshan> you can run em off solar heat
[23:09:48] <zeeshan> shit you can even burn garbage and run em
[23:10:00] <zeeshan> makes a lot of sense for remote areas
[23:10:07] <furrywolf> I was thinking of a solar thermal plant once, but I was going to use a tesla turbine rather than a reciprocating engine.
[23:10:24] <furrywolf> I designed an ultra-low-cost fresnel trough collector
[23:11:27] <Crom> nice lathe
[23:11:48] <furrywolf> then I realized that direct sun wasn't very common here, and most of my power came from diffuse light, which you can't really concentrate. :)
[23:13:06] <bobo_> zeeshan why not a trip to visit Dan Gelbart -- and visit the SP Big boy rebuild
[23:13:11] <zeeshan> lol
[23:13:18] <zeeshan> hes too elite for me
[23:13:50] <furrywolf> if you want to work on steam engines, the local restoration people always need help. :P
[23:13:53] <Crom> wooo Big boy... Where that at?
[23:14:03] <bobo_> you might be suprised
[23:14:06] <furrywolf> I've helped out occasionally, but it's not a real interest of mine.
[23:14:42] <Crom> Weekend after next I'll be at IronHorse steampunk Family Festival in Perris at the Rail Museum
[23:15:11] <Crom> http;//ambermeade.com is my wifes website
[23:15:27] <Crom> http://ambermeade.com is my wifes website
[23:16:11] <zeeshan> too many projects
[23:16:16] <zeeshan> must complete!
[23:16:24] <zeeshan> my lathe really makes me upset
[23:16:30] <zeeshan> cause its not a slant bed
[23:16:31] <Crom> yeah exactly...
[23:16:40] <zeeshan> i need to try to come to terms with it
[23:16:48] <Crom> zee you figure out the gib problem?
[23:17:03] <zeeshan> i was only measuring 0.0005" deflection
[23:17:06] <zeeshan> maybe 0.0008"
[23:17:19] <zeeshan> i dont think thats enough to cause a crap surface finish
[23:17:23] <zeeshan> i sped up the feedrate
[23:17:27] <zeeshan> to 10-14 ipm
[23:17:34] <zeeshan> and bam, surface finish improved
[23:17:35] <bobo_> hack off 4" of front legs ------ then get back to work
[23:17:36] <zeeshan> no more tear out
[23:17:45] <Crom> bobo hehe
[23:18:10] <zeeshan> http://i307.photobucket.com/albums/nn294/BrianRupnow/DIEHOLDER--MODIFIED001.jpg
[23:18:14] <zeeshan> mine was slightly better than this
[23:18:23] <zeeshan> but you can see the tearing
[23:18:25] <Crom> I need to put casters on my lathe
[23:18:34] <zeeshan> http://cmv.zftp.com/IMGP2764.JPG
[23:19:28] <Crom> i also need to put a bigger oil cup on my head stock
[23:20:56] <Crom> but I'm broke until my brother pays for a website or my Grandma check comes in on the 16th
[23:21:11] <zeeshan> grandma check?
[23:21:13] <zeeshan> what
[23:21:35] <Crom> My grandma setup a trust.. I get a check once a month
[23:21:36] <bobo_> zeeshan to me you aer going down a rabbit hole --- light machines and neg rake cutting tools are not good
[23:21:41] <zeeshan> ah
[23:22:02] <zeeshan> bobo_: 1000lb isnt that light
[23:22:10] <zeeshan> !
[23:22:19] <Crom> not much but $325 + my $490 from the VA pays for most of my toys
[23:23:23] <Crom> oh shit that reminded me, I need to install VNC back on my Winbloz machine
[23:23:28] <furrywolf> bbl, wolfy bedtime
[23:23:33] <Crom> nite nite
[23:23:43] <MacGalempsy> bye
[23:24:22] <MacGalempsy> that piece looks good zeeshan
[23:24:41] <zeeshan> no! :P
[23:24:55] <Crom> crappy surface finish
[23:26:43] <MacGalempsy> trust fund kid huh?
[23:26:57] * zeeshan wants null-object$!
[23:27:01] <zeeshan> $$
[23:27:08] <Crom> I'm looking at getting some 45 degree engraving bit to cut out that stencil I'm working on. I also think I'm gonna try to cut it out of sheet metal using 0.003 passes
[23:27:21] <Crom> if you call $325 a month a trust fund baby..
[23:27:24] <bobo_> zeeshan also 1040 or the even lower carbon steel are gumey --- and also that finish looks typical
[23:27:48] <zeeshan> i need to try to get some free machnining steel
[23:27:50] <zeeshan> and see what happens
[23:28:23] <Crom> I got some carpet tape to see if that help holding down the sheet better
[23:28:41] <Crom> so it doesn't pop up when I peirce it
[23:29:03] <Crom> http://itslinux.org/pics/NewBreedVapes.jpg
[23:30:33] <bobo_> if you can't keep the carbide lust under control at least go for positive rake and polished stuff
[23:30:38] <Crom> 60 degree engraver all seem to have a 0.01mm flat on the bottom
[23:30:58] <zeeshan> crom doing this on a router?
[23:31:04] <zeeshan> bobo_: lol @ carbide lust
[23:31:05] <zeeshan> :)
[23:31:06] <Crom> yoocnc 3040
[23:31:33] <Crom> the material is 0.011 aluminum
[23:32:00] <zeeshan> why 0.003 passes?
[23:32:20] <Crom> about the max I can take on steel
[23:32:41] <zeeshan> ah
[23:35:02] <Crom> I also have to blow it up to 10x or 100x on pyCAM then scale on Mach3 to get the 0.001 or 0.0005 resolution since pyCAm only wants to go 0.01 on correction
[23:35:33] <Crom> which makes setting 0,0 tricky
[23:36:33] <Crom> 0.000079 resolution on 16 microstep
[23:38:50] <Crom> ugh askchat down't have /exec
[23:39:09] <bobo_> zeeshan check out www.arwarnerco.com for their cutting tool stuff
[23:41:34] <zeeshan> cool
[23:41:38] <zeeshan> fancy inserts! :P
[23:45:11] <Crom> ahh orange empire rail museum
[23:45:57] <bobo_> did you see Gelbart's laser center finder ? --- as in are you geing to make one for yourself
[23:47:37] <Crom> center finder?
[23:47:59] <bobo_> hang on a min
[23:48:09] <Crom> 2 line lasers at 90 degree?
[23:50:09] <Crom> happy doggy... I brought home some chicken for her
[23:53:51] <bobo_> Crom & zeeshan & others-------laser center finder-------
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=otSjut1iGGk---approx at 2 min mark
