#linuxcnc | Logs for 2015-03-03

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[00:01:45] <Cromaglious> ok Lets try WiFi only no wired network
[02:03:02] <MacGalempsy> deadsville!
[02:03:43] <MacGalempsy> Cromaglious: what have you got going on tonight?
[02:03:48] <archivist> do something then
[02:05:12] <MacGalempsy> just got done playing some xbox.
[02:05:23] <MacGalempsy> work has nothing going on at all
[02:05:38] <MacGalempsy> but still have to be up for another 4 hours
[02:05:47] <MacGalempsy> archivist: what are you up to?
[02:06:05] <archivist> faking some scanning dates....
[02:06:51] <MacGalempsy> sounds mischivious
[02:07:43] <archivist> just want a doc scan to look recent, done specially for the user
[02:09:11] <archivist> I dont ask for money for scanning just hope for donations
[02:11:04] <Connor> zeeshan: You get your shim? You get the backlash fixed?
[02:18:22] <MacGalempsy> archivist: what kind of stuff do people ask you to scan?
[02:18:28] <MacGalempsy> manuals, mags?
[02:18:36] <MacGalempsy> moin
[02:18:56] <Deejay> moin
[02:19:01] <MacGalempsy> ;)
[02:19:09] <archivist> today a 1960s bench power supply manual
[02:19:16] <Deejay> :)
[02:20:30] <archivist> an unusual design for the time as it has a SCR switching regulator before the linear regulator, ran very cool
[02:22:22] <Swapper> anyone have a recommendation for a small 3-phase 400v rated plug with matching chassie connector ?
[02:23:25] <archivist> I only use CEE for 3 phase or direct connection
[02:23:35] <Swapper> Cee is huge
[02:23:44] <MacGalempsy> I saw the oil tank today at the thriftstore. it was a 1 gallon steel pail with a small pump in the bottom that was connected to a garden spicket
[02:24:10] <Swapper> and its for a servo motor so dont feel confident that would meet best practice if anyone connects some other stuff to the CEE connector
[02:24:56] <archivist> I direct wire the motors
[02:25:29] <Swapper> thats plan B i guess
[02:25:59] <archivist> not often disconnecting, easy to label
[03:21:57] <georgenz> Hey guys... I have just fitted some teco servos, drives and 7i77 to my machine, z axis had some chatter in it. I tuned it today, but the chatter is still there. Any ideas?
[03:22:51] <georgenz> It's not hunting, jst random chatter sounds like electrical noise or something?
[03:26:46] <archivist> is it sliding down and correcting
[04:07:48] <SolarNRG> does anybody have a photo of the PCB of a gecko stepper motor controller?
[04:23:04] <SolarNRG> preferable the g540
[04:42:19] <XXCoder> work was interesting heh
[04:42:26] <XXCoder> getting ready to bed its 2:21 am lol
[04:44:59] <SolarNRG> xxcoder what controller are you using?
[04:45:24] <XXCoder> some el cheapo chinese controller
[04:45:29] <XXCoder> my hobby router is tiny
[04:45:38] <SolarNRG> what motors are you using?
[04:45:45] <XXCoder> nemo23
[04:45:54] <SolarNRG> will it handle nema34's?
[04:46:23] <XXCoder> depends on power requirements. by time youre using 34s I would suggest seperate umm whats it called... drivers?
[04:46:48] <SolarNRG> any chance you can take the driver apart for me and take two photos of each side of the PCB?
[04:46:59] <XXCoder> I dont use any
[04:47:08] <SolarNRG> don't use any what?
[04:47:12] <XXCoder> driver
[04:47:19] <XXCoder> mine is controller direct drive
[04:47:29] <XXCoder> it isnt fancy project after all
[04:47:47] <XXCoder> well ready to sleep now so later
[04:48:00] <SolarNRG> I can't afford a gecko g540 but there are tonnes of electronic parts about, transistors and the like and I want to make my own controller to plug into my pc
[05:08:25] <MacGalempsy> finally in the home stretch of finishing up with work!
[06:38:41] <Swapper> anyone have a example of a way to stop the "at speed" and speed input of the spindle to stop blinking ?
[06:39:10] <Swapper> i guess its cuse the motor i have is a servo and it drifts slooowly when stoped.
[06:39:21] <Swapper> Maybe some sort of deadband setting ?
[06:58:43] <jthornton> 0 is at speed
[06:59:51] <jthornton> it should not drift when under the command of LinuxCNC
[07:00:04] <Swapper> its not pid controlled
[07:00:37] <Swapper> i asked for that before and since the driver is very linear there has not been any need to close it in linuxcnc
[07:01:04] <Swapper> its +-10v controlled servo as spindle
[07:02:46] <Swapper> i have similar behaviur on the axies that it varies between encoder counts and 1.0 becomes 0.999 and back several times
[07:02:49] <Swapper> its not static
[07:04:12] <jthornton> yea, it will only be plus minus an encoder count on an axis
[07:04:40] <Swapper> is that "ok" or should i bother fixing it?
[07:04:42] <jthornton> is the at speed light one you added?
[07:05:01] <Swapper> yea and it shows the RPM
[07:05:38] <jthornton> put something in there to ignore at speed when the spindle command is off
[07:05:45] <Swapper> and since the driver is enabled and keeping the spindle locked when stopped but drifting slowly it flashes
[07:06:26] <Swapper> i where thinking some typ of deadband that ignores values in the range of 8rpm
[07:06:58] <Swapper> and probably only filter the value to the gmocapy "led" pin
[07:07:00] <jthornton> it drifts at 8rpm?
[07:07:36] <Swapper> not that much
[07:07:41] <Swapper> but to get rid of it
[07:08:22] <jthornton> gmocapy should be smart enough to ignore the at speed when the spindle is not running
[07:08:30] <Swapper> its not :)
[07:09:24] <Tom_itx> you can use 'near' with it to come 'close'
[07:09:47] <Tom_itx> value or percent
[07:10:33] <Swapper> i do have that allready
[07:10:42] <Swapper> probably only wrong lowpass setting ?
[07:11:06] <Swapper> net spindle-vel-cmd-rps => near.0.in1
[07:11:06] <Swapper> net spindle-vel-fb => near.0.in2
[07:11:06] <Swapper> net spindle-at-speed <= near.0.out
[07:11:06] <Swapper> setp near.0.scale 1.750000
[07:11:06] <Swapper> #setp near.0.difference 3.333333
[07:11:09] <Swapper> #setp near.0.difference 5
[07:11:15] <Swapper> the last 2 where in there...
[07:11:26] <Swapper> setp scale.spindle.gain 60
[07:11:27] <Swapper> setp lowpass.spindle.gain 1.000000
[07:12:49] <jthornton> motion.spindle-on OUT BIT TRUE when spindle should rotate
[07:14:06] <jthornton> you should mention this on the never ending gmocapy thread on the forum
[07:14:40] <Swapper> yea guess i do that
[07:14:45] <Swapper> ty for the input
[07:15:07] <Swapper> i think it where mentioned a while back
[07:15:09] <Swapper> ill check
[07:19:05] <jthornton> as busy as that thread is I'd assume a lot gets forgotten unless brought up again
[07:19:20] <Swapper> yep
[07:48:39] <SolarNRG> has anybody here made their own stepper motor drivers?
[07:51:18] <skunkworks> yes. isn't worth it. buy them.
[07:51:43] <skunkworks> Same goes for servo drives...
[07:52:44] <Swapper> yea, and small ones for mini projects are cheap on ebay
[07:52:51] <malcom2073> +1. Is the $10 you save on a small stepper driver, or $100 you save on a large one, worth the amount of engineering time you'll spend makign your own? :)
[07:52:55] <Swapper> cant even get the parts for the price some times
[07:56:02] <SolarNRG> why is it not worth making your own ones?
[07:56:15] <_methods> http://www.ebay.com/itm/5pcs-Geeetech-Stepper-Driver-DRV8825-and-heatsink-RepRap-Prusa-Mendel-3D-Printer-/231180196237
[07:56:19] <_methods> $3/each
[07:56:34] <malcom2073> SolarNRG: Because they're silly inexpensive.
[07:56:35] <_methods> you can't even get the components that cheap
[07:57:10] <SolarNRG> will this handle the current and voltage of a nema 34?
[07:57:18] <_methods> not for nema34
[07:57:24] <malcom2073> SolarNRG: You didn't specify that.
[07:57:33] <malcom2073> What current and voltage are you looking for?
[07:57:54] <SolarNRG> well I asked everywhere yesterday and no shops sell stepper motor drivers
[07:58:09] <malcom2073> Where's everywhere, the internet?
[07:58:28] <SolarNRG> but they had some power fets and I seen some open source stepper motor drivers ppl have made, a lot of the time they are slow and shite, but some people have used dedicated PIC's or ATMEGA's and got a lot higher speeds out of them
[07:58:29] <_methods> http://www.ebay.com/itm/4Axis-Stepper-motor-driver-PEAK-7-8A-256-micsteps-DM860A-24-80V-for-Nema-34motor-/301319682760
[07:59:16] <_methods> pretty sure you can find those dm860a's cheaper
[07:59:42] <_methods> around $50
[08:00:24] <_methods> once again the voltage and current requirements would help
[08:01:35] <SolarNRG> can I put a volt meter across the terminals of my motor and find that out?
[08:02:12] <malcom2073> No, but you can look at the datasheet for your motor to find that out
[08:12:12] <SolarNRG> ok i got the 60BYGH301B which states no. phases 4, voltage 3.9, current 3, inductance 3.2, resistance 1.3, hold trq 22, rotor inertia 860, weight 1.4, length 88, lead wires 8
[08:12:50] <malcom2073> Those are nema 23, not nema 34
[08:13:18] <SolarNRG> right so the chinese dude on ebay ripped me off then
[08:13:22] <SolarNRG> great
[08:13:54] <SolarNRG> shall i continue working with what i got or should i get some bigger motors?
[08:14:20] <malcom2073> That depends, what are you working on? If your motor moutns are nema34, nema23's won't fit, and if nema34 torque levels are required, then nema23 won't work
[08:14:39] <SolarNRG> I'm drilling my own mounts out of steel plate
[08:14:53] <SolarNRG> using sand and glass to make them nice and flat
[08:16:40] <SolarNRG> but if i just want to make a very basic diy system on the cheap with some fets so i can at least get the motors turning, what do?
[08:19:24] <malcom2073> If you want to just get the motors turning just ot see them turn, spend $15 on one of these: http://www.ebay.com/itm/CNC-Single-Axis-TB6600-4-5A-Two-Phase-Stepper-Motor-Driver-Controller-/261244221548?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item3cd35e786c
[08:19:34] * jthornton got the lathe g code generator to generate arcs with GTk YEA!
[08:19:34] <malcom2073> I have a couple of them, they work fairly well for bench testing and the like
[08:20:01] <malcom2073> If you want to design your own, that's out of my field, maybe someone else can help you...but I'm fairly certain it'll cost you more than $15 to design/build one :P
[08:21:38] <SolarNRG> I was thinking find a pcb file for one that works pretty good take it down the uni and getting it printed then soldering on my own fets etc.
[08:22:32] <_methods> http://www.3ders.org/articles/20130107-powerlolu-board-powerful-open-source-stepper-motor-driver.html
[08:22:44] <_methods> if you can make your pcb's there you go
[08:22:56] <_methods> https://github.com/fluidfred/powerlolu
[08:23:07] <_methods> .brd and .sch there
[08:23:23] <SolarNRG> sweet thank you
[08:23:31] <SolarNRG> seems a bit slow but works
[08:26:44] <SolarNRG> any reason why you wouldn't use this?
[08:27:18] <_methods> because i have better things to do and i would just buy an off the shelf driver?
[08:29:37] <SolarNRG> good answer
[08:30:15] <malcom2073> Time really, drivers are cheap enough. If you spend 5 hours getting it made and soldering it together (including drive time to go get it done), and you could buy one and have it at your door for $50, then your time is worth $10 an hour, ignoring any cost of components.
[08:30:29] <malcom2073> Heh
[08:35:41] <SolarNRG> can that open source driver handle 8 wire stepper motors?
[08:36:10] <_methods> i have no idea
[08:36:26] <_methods> you'd probably need to read about it's capabilities
[08:36:47] <SolarNRG> how many wires do your stepper motors have?
[08:59:05] <sliptonic> Anyone know a part# or link for the edge connectors to connect to servo amps like this: http://www.grmolds.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/05/amps-1024x765.jpeg
[09:01:37] <_methods> i think that's a jst connector
[09:01:42] <_methods> how many pins is that
[09:01:48] <_methods> 16 pin jst?
[09:01:55] <sliptonic> yes 16
[09:03:54] <pcw_home> 8 wire stepper motors have 2 windings per phase that allow you to connect them in series or parallel
[09:03:56] <pcw_home> when in parallel the inductance is lower but twice the current must be supplied for the same torque
[09:07:40] <SolarNRG> the datasheet said this motor uses 3.6v does that mean I can get away with 5V?
[09:08:08] <SolarNRG> and most power supplies won't handle anything above 500mA where do I get a power supply from that will handle the current?
[09:09:42] <_methods> sliptonic: i think that's a jst ph connector
[09:09:52] <_methods> but you'd have to measure it and check the specs to make sure
[09:09:58] <_methods> http://www.jst-mfg.com/product/pageview/connector_e/pageview.html#page_num=60
[09:10:24] <pcw_home> No 3.6V is the DC voltage drop at rated current, you typically need 10 to 20 times this for good performance (36 to 72V)
[09:10:27] <SpeedEvil> In general, steppers don't care at all about voltage until you hit 200V or so
[09:10:36] <SpeedEvil> Then the insulation breaks down.
[09:10:48] <SpeedEvil> You need to keep the current to the nominal amount
[09:11:13] <sliptonic> Thanks _methods
[09:11:24] <_methods> np but that's probably not it
[09:11:26] <pcw_home> I have some 360V rated steppers (for rectified 220 line operation)
[09:11:31] <_methods> it might be a chinese knockoff of jst
[09:11:36] <SpeedEvil> Current limiting drivers work well.
[09:11:43] <SolarNRG> so would an old pc power supply work?
[09:12:09] <pcw_home> only 12v so slow but would work
[09:12:23] <sliptonic> I think it's 2.54 pitch. An ideal solution would be a female connector that adapts to screw terminals but this gets me in the ballpark.
[09:12:29] <_methods> it might actually be a jst xh
[09:12:34] <_methods> http://www.jst-mfg.com/product/pageview/connector_e/pageview.html#page_num=92
[09:12:35] <pcw_home> but for 3.6v step motors you need a current source drive
[09:12:48] <_methods> pitch is 2.5 on xh
[09:13:05] <SolarNRG> what sort of shop would sell an appropriate power supply?
[09:13:15] <pcw_home> ebay?
[09:13:36] <pcw_home> where you can also get the drivers
[09:14:22] <pcw_home> note that the critical rating or matching step motors with drives is current
[09:14:31] <pcw_home> for matching
[10:05:19] <Rab> sliptonic, that's a Molex KK 254 series connector. http://www.molex.com/molex/products/family?key=kk_254_rpc_connector_system&channel=products&chanName=family&pageTitle=Introduction&parentKey=kk_interconnect_solutions
[10:06:28] <CaptHindsight> just FYI http://www.pchub.com/uph/ carries lots of the hard to find replacement parts for laptops, PC's and LCD monitors
[10:11:46] <Rab> sliptonic, this is probably the part you want: http://www.molex.com/molex/products/datasheet.jsp?part=active/0022012165_CRIMP_HOUSINGS.xml
[10:16:13] <Rab> Selecting the proper connector is a little tricky because Molex have several different feature variants. The one I linked to has a "locking ramp"; you'll want to make sure your connector uses that.
[10:18:55] <archivist_herron> some manuals are following me home today http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/121579154539
[10:19:02] <Rab> Note that this is only the housing. You also need contacts. That housing is compatible with 2759 and 4809 series contacts; I strongly recommend the 4809 "cat ear" contacts for reliability: http://www.molex.com/molex/products/listview.jsp?query=4809&path=cHome%23%23-1%23%23-1~~ncCRIMPTERMINALS%23%230%23%23b&offset=0&autoNav=1&sType=s&filter=&fs=&channel=Products
[10:19:59] <Rab> The standard traditional KK pin everyone uses only contacts one side of the pin. Not a good design IMO.
[10:20:43] <Rab> Armed with those part numbers you can go to a distributor like Digi-Key or Mouser for pricing and availability.
[10:21:14] <archivist_herron> seen them burnt up when too much current put though them
[10:22:08] <Rab> Yeah, overcurrent or resistance heats the contact and it loses its spring temper. Less tension = worse connection = escalating situation.
[10:22:09] <pcw_home> My experience is use tin connectors only to about 30% of rated current
[10:22:58] <archivist_herron> parallel the contacts for higher current
[10:24:11] <FinboySlick> archivist_herron: http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Edgwick-16-20-Phase-3-Shaping-Machine/111607730406 was a couple related links from your auction. It's a lovely machine.
[10:26:03] <archivist_herron> way over my budget though...grmbl
[10:26:30] <archivist_herron> locking up here be at home soon
[10:27:38] <FinboySlick> I guess if you found a busted one, sturdy as those are built, you could convert it to a pretty darn solid vertical mill.
[10:47:23] <CaptHindsight> anyone know the going hourly rate is the US for cnc machining? Say a part has a 1 hour cycle time and you're making 50 parts and setup is trivial or extra.
[10:48:52] <FinboySlick> CaptHindsight: I think it'll depend on if you're doing *only* 50 or batches of 50 with a commitment for a higher number.
[10:49:49] <_methods> we usually charge $120/hour
[10:49:58] <CaptHindsight> just a 50 - 100 run of something milled on it's own
[10:50:01] <_methods> if it's an insert killer we'll charge a tooling charge
[10:50:36] <_methods> if you want to send a print i'll get you a quote
[10:50:39] <CaptHindsight> rockwell hardness 100.000 :)
[10:50:52] <_methods> um nm don't send me that print lol
[10:51:16] <CaptHindsight> _methods: no, I was just wondering what US rates are in the range of
[10:53:15] <_methods> yeah we charge $120/hr for cnc, i think $85/hr for manual, laser is $220/hr and waterjet is like $150/hr
[10:53:30] <_methods> plasma is $100/hr
[10:53:57] <_methods> unless it's got a ton of holes then we might up it because of electrode wear
[10:54:22] <_methods> fab is random price the owner makes up at will
[10:54:38] <_methods> pretty sure he has a dart board hidden somewhere
[10:55:26] <alex4nder> _methods: are you guys a one-stop shop?
[10:55:33] <_methods> we're a job shop
[10:55:35] <alex4nder> werd
[10:55:38] <_methods> we'll whores
[10:55:50] <_methods> s/we'll/we're
[10:56:00] <alex4nder> do you TIG weld as well?
[10:56:03] <_methods> yeah
[10:56:05] <alex4nder> nice
[10:56:06] <alex4nder> that's fun
[10:56:17] <_methods> we have a robot welder too for med production welding jobs
[10:56:59] <CaptHindsight> was just considering the cost for people to machine laptop cases in USA
[10:57:33] <alex4nder> you doing a product?
[10:57:35] <_methods> well aluminum chassis should be around the $120 range
[10:57:41] <_methods> $120/hr that is
[10:58:05] <_methods> if you were to supply material you might be able to beat them down on price a bit too
[10:58:30] <CaptHindsight> people want to know the DIY price since the files will be open
[10:58:49] <_methods> ah say to get a local shop to machine a one off part like that
[10:58:52] <_methods> will be expensive
[10:59:00] <_methods> you'll be eating all the setup
[10:59:18] <CaptHindsight> no, for a shops in the US that might do a run once a week
[10:59:23] <_methods> ahh
[10:59:29] <_methods> yeah that would be the way to do it
[10:59:36] <CaptHindsight> http://openlunchbox.com/smf/index.php?topic=35.0
[10:59:39] <_methods> sounds like a prime job for PetefromTn_
[11:00:10] <alex4nder> CaptHindsight: that looks a lot like an X-series thinkpad chassis
[11:00:22] <CaptHindsight> yeah, they were made well
[11:00:41] <CaptHindsight> these are for the PC enthusiast or pro user
[11:00:44] <alex4nder> yah
[11:00:47] <alex4nder> I loved that hardware
[11:01:24] <alex4nder> CaptHindsight: have you ever looked at/used the novena?
[11:05:25] <CaptHindsight> alex4nder: yes, they almost made a laptop
[11:05:51] <alex4nder> haha
[11:05:56] <alex4nder> they might disagree with you. ;)
[11:07:35] <CaptHindsight> alex4nder: I have no idea why they decided to make tooling for injection molding
[11:08:33] <alex4nder> I only ever saw their aluminum case, and their limited-run wood and aluminum
[11:09:09] <CaptHindsight> we are going to SLA these cases
[11:09:21] <CaptHindsight> tooless production
[11:09:29] <alex4nder> cool
[11:10:17] <CaptHindsight> but you're free to mod the design and machine them
[11:16:41] <CaptHindsight> when you add up all the parts costs for a current high end laptop you find that they are making 100-200% margins vs 10-20% or less on the low end
[11:17:35] <CaptHindsight> so it looks like they just don't want to make good laptops anymore
[11:17:51] <CaptHindsight> just cheap laptops at high prices
[11:27:08] <ssi> need an opinion
[11:27:24] <ssi> last laser was 100W reci Z4
[11:27:39] <ssi> and honestly I felt like I never could really fully utilize all the power it could make
[11:27:42] <renesis> capthindsight: laptops have huge development cost and time compared to pc
[11:27:59] <ssi> 100Ws aren't in stock in the US at the moment, but 80Ws are... should I just do 80W this time?
[11:28:01] <renesis> youre not just paying for parts, even before you add the marketing costs
[11:28:35] <renesis> higher end laptops tend to suck less, in terms of reliability, mechanicals, and gap and step in the finish
[11:28:45] <renesis> that shit costs $$$
[11:29:20] <renesis> its not a desktop, that shit is one injection mold for the snap in face, maybe get fancy with some fan ducts, everything else off the shelf
[11:30:07] <renesis> you could have a decent tech shop for desktop parts from oem vendors and dev that shit in a few days
[11:32:15] <renesis> also how do you assign a price to a custom motherboard to calculate a margin
[11:32:47] <SpeedEvil> NRE cost / volume * profit
[11:32:56] <SpeedEvil> Or something
[11:33:42] <renesis> yeah but you would have to know the profit
[11:34:16] <renesis> how do you know nre cost without like, full teardown bom and then industrial esionage to find out how much they paid for all of the things?
[11:34:44] <SpeedEvil> Err - what?
[11:34:55] <SpeedEvil> If you're making a laptop, you know how much it costs to make a laptop
[11:35:25] <SpeedEvil> If you're making a laptop, and you don't know how much it's going to cost within narrow margins going in - you shouldn't be making a laptop
[11:35:38] <renesis> im saying if youre not making it, like you are capthindsight, how do you know they are making 100-200% margins
[11:35:45] <SpeedEvil> Ah
[11:35:59] <renesis> based on parts cost
[11:36:08] <CaptHindsight> I know the NRE costs
[11:36:19] <CaptHindsight> and the typical run volumes
[11:36:21] <renesis> so my argument is profit is probably the same or less than for low end
[11:36:26] <renesis> but nre is way more
[11:36:51] <renesis> capthindsight: do you work in laptop manufacturing?
[11:37:15] <CaptHindsight> renesis: and yes, the corporate overhead is all in the marketing, support, branding etc etc
[11:37:17] <renesis> or do you have recent teardown pricing link or something
[11:37:32] <SpeedEvil> https://technology.ihs.com/414163/
[11:37:33] <SpeedEvil> for example
[11:37:44] <renesis> when you add up all the parts costs for a current high end laptop
[11:37:52] <CaptHindsight> renesis: been designing PC's since the early 80's
[11:38:02] <SpeedEvil> You can get IhS to commission an analysis for a particular laptop
[11:38:12] <renesis> right i just explained why a laptop and a pc have nothing to do with each other in terms of development
[11:38:33] <alex4nder> renesis: I just bought a keyboard kit for $300, because it had an aluminum case, and a trackpoint. there is someone who will pay $N for anything.
[11:38:41] <renesis> unless you mean you design mobo since the early 80s
[11:38:46] <CaptHindsight> pc's laptops, servers, boards etc
[11:38:51] <SpeedEvil> https://technology.ihs.com/344375/teardown-analysis-samsung-series-9-np900x3a-notebook-computer - for example
[11:39:00] <SpeedEvil> CaptHindsight: laptop from component level? Neat
[11:39:16] <renesis> alex4nder: right but a company will spend more time making sure it gets manufacturered correctly to a higher tolerance
[11:39:26] <alex4nder> that's fair
[11:39:26] <XXCoder> morning
[11:39:39] <alex4nder> renesis: unless you've got boutique customers with cash to burn
[11:39:47] <renesis> laptops are crazy custom, high density
[11:40:02] <renesis> so in a lot of models, you break even or lose money on high end
[11:40:09] <renesis> because itll sell more of your low end
[11:40:24] <CaptHindsight> I don't leave anything up to the actual assembler
[11:40:25] <renesis> which you are pumping out in high volume, and getting lots of deals because of the volume
[11:40:36] <XXCoder> ran this machine today http://twentywheels.com/imgs/a/a/m/u/y/fadal_vmc_4020_cnc_vertical_machining_center___1988_2_lgw.jpg
[11:40:40] <XXCoder> ancient. lol
[11:40:53] <CaptHindsight> well tooling is >$250K for a laptop case
[11:41:04] <alex4nder> XXCoder: awesome
[11:41:29] <SpeedEvil> https://technology.ihs.com/Search?f=261:2588&q=laptop&so=MostRelevant
[11:41:30] <SpeedEvil> hmm
[11:41:40] <SpeedEvil> alas all of their laptop teardowns and analysis are subscribe only
[11:45:59] <CaptHindsight> most designs take the 1,000 monkeys approach and end up working (almost)
[11:47:17] <CaptHindsight> AMD and Intel do much of the motherboard work for them
[11:47:43] <CaptHindsight> cut and paste gerber
[11:48:47] <alex4nder> CaptHindsight: I always wondered how those second-tier motherboard manufacturers churned out boards that worked at all
[11:48:48] <CaptHindsight> and the large laptop houses have internal people from both the brand they are making and the major suppliers
[11:49:12] <CaptHindsight> so foxconn has Apple and Intel people in house
[11:49:48] <renesis> apple and intel would be insane not to have engineers at the CM
[11:51:11] <renesis> i think at this point the only people not camping out at asian CM are small-medium companies who are new at CM manufacturing who are about to have the asses handed to them
[11:51:32] <alex4nder> yah :/
[11:51:46] <alex4nder> another leg up for local production
[11:51:48] <renesis> at which point theyll die or become another company training china how to make all the things
[11:51:59] <renesis> well, soon maybe
[11:52:22] * alex4nder looks at his Mac Pro
[11:52:45] <renesis> we dont have infrastructure like before so economy maybe has to get pretty meh here before accountants decide its cheaper to make things here
[11:52:51] <renesis> gonna go slow at first =\
[11:52:55] <alex4nder> yah
[11:53:03] <CaptHindsight> Apple has a sea of mini cnc mills churning out cellphone and laptop cases
[11:53:27] <CaptHindsight> they don't even call them mills since they are stripped down to just make cases
[11:54:16] <renesis> most of their line workers just load QA and assembly robot jigs
[11:54:39] <renesis> like short distance fedex tasks
[11:55:33] <CaptHindsight> Fosconn was installing over a million robots in their plants
[11:56:00] <CaptHindsight> but since they bought Chinese they aren't accurate enough to make iphones
[11:56:26] <CaptHindsight> http://www.macrumors.com/2014/12/05/foxconn-robots-iphone-assembly/
[11:56:53] <CaptHindsight> the people that run these co's aren't really that bright unfortunately
[11:58:20] <renesis> depends
[11:58:46] <renesis> a lot of times theyre pretty smart but theyre not going to do more work than what they feel they were paid for
[12:00:38] <renesis> if you deliver great work for low cost, you cant charge extra for great work
[12:01:21] <alex4nder> assuming our cultural priorities match theirs is a costly mistake
[12:01:24] <renesis> thats not a chinese thing, thats just how you run a shop and hit deadlines
[12:01:31] * LeelooMinai points out that people in Asia have highest average IQ overall
[12:02:17] * ssi points out that IQ is mostly bogus
[12:02:32] <renesis> in this context yeah
[12:02:59] <renesis> communication and team building actually go a long way, high iq doesnt necessarily lend itself to that
[12:03:17] <CaptHindsight> it's not IQ, it's more narcissism, ego and cunning
[12:03:33] <renesis> sounds like corporate america to me
[12:03:35] <alex4nder> renesis: dealing with the chinese, I don't think it's entirely apples-to-apples with how shops are run.
[12:03:52] <alex4nder> the chinese are interesting, because stuff that they think is totally acceptable socially, is considered horrible in the US
[12:04:20] <alex4nder> but the US went through its own struggles on that front
[12:04:35] <renesis> we chopped up kids in machines during our industrial revolution
[12:04:39] <alex4nder> that's what I'm saying
[12:04:47] <renesis> just because we had no concept of servicability
[12:04:53] <alex4nder> but now that's not part of the american narrative
[12:04:57] <alex4nder> and we tell ourselves that we are better
[12:05:14] <renesis> china is doing fine, they the reason we have such a high standard of living
[12:05:20] <alex4nder> eh
[12:05:28] <alex4nder> that remains to be seen
[12:05:51] <renesis> shit will get worse here and better there
[12:06:06] <renesis> im okay with that, its fair
[12:06:13] <alex4nder> you ever been to china?
[12:06:30] <LeelooMinai> "yes, 3 times"
[12:06:35] <renesis> nope, but i work closely, hear tons of stories
[12:07:23] <renesis> my point is, we drove them towards the state theyre in now, theyre dealing with issues but overall theyre probably in a more positive place than before
[12:07:27] <CaptHindsight> it's like blade runner, without the flying cars
[12:07:46] <alex4nder> at least the noodles are good
[12:07:56] <LeelooMinai> I heard they make new BladeRunner, with Harrison Ford
[12:08:05] <renesis> ?
[12:08:35] <LeelooMinai> He is kind of old now... maybe they will call it BladeWalker:)
[12:08:41] <CaptHindsight> yes, I hope Riddley does a good job vs just make a few $
[12:08:52] <toast-work> side question: anyone have a favorite book on camshaft design with a focus on the theory/application to heat engines
[12:09:17] <CaptHindsight> flying wheel chairs
[12:12:42] <sliptonic> Rab: Thanks for the info!
[12:13:02] <CaptHindsight> LeelooMinai: people were wondering if Sean Young were to also return as an older replicant
[12:13:24] <LeelooMinai> As Sean Old:)
[12:14:09] <CaptHindsight> and she should just be herself, run around with martinis, get tossed out of places etc
[12:14:25] <alex4nder> haha
[12:27:08] <archivist> toast-work, I have some docs but rather old probably
[12:28:27] <XXCoder> CaptHindsight: if I recall, replinants dont live very long?
[12:29:55] <CaptHindsight> XXCoder: except for Rachel, she had no expiration date
[12:30:07] <XXCoder> oh yea. been a long while
[12:31:37] <CaptHindsight> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blade_Runner_2:_The_Edge_of_Human they kill Rachael :(
[12:33:39] <XXCoder> interesting
[12:34:03] <CaptHindsight> it would be nice of the movie just doesn't sux
[12:34:19] <alex4nder> the whole movie is going to just be a loop of this: http://www.reactiongifs.us/wp-content/uploads/2013/08/who_gives_a_shit.gif
[12:34:24] <_methods> that's asking a lot of a movie that never needed a sequel
[12:34:51] <XXCoder> alex4nder: lol
[12:46:41] <XXCoder> http://cdn.smosh.com/sites/default/files/ftpuploads/bloguploads/pug-man-swap.jpg
[12:46:43] <XXCoder> enjoy.
[12:47:03] <PetefromTn_> Personally speaking as a HUGE fan of Blade Runner and everything it was I think that anything that takes away from it would be a crime. Having said that and witnessing the new Star Trek movies by JJ Abrams being pretty damn amazing I would HOPE that any sequel or prequel would be of similar quality.
[12:48:13] <PetefromTn_> I do think that reading the story line on the wikipedia page there is adequate story there to make it work if done with enough effort and passion for the original.
[12:48:21] <CaptHindsight> back in the 80's I used it a a test tape so it was on 12 hours a day, I must have watched it 200 times
[12:48:25] <XXCoder> if. yeah
[12:48:44] <XXCoder> sequels pretty rarely improve on orginial
[12:48:45] <PetefromTn_> it really was a masterpiecce especially the soundtrack.
[12:49:34] <CaptHindsight> most the characters are now in the late 60's or early 70's
[12:49:47] <PetefromTn_> yeah which is a difficult hurdle to overcome..
[12:49:48] <XXCoder> Capt whats likely is only few will repeat
[12:49:54] <XXCoder> certainly main charactor
[12:50:22] <CaptHindsight> or lots of CGI like that film with Bruce Willis a few years ago
[12:50:35] <PetefromTn_> I thought it would be impossible to recreate the original Star Trek cast adequately but I think the new Star Trek cast is amazing really...
[12:50:36] <CaptHindsight> make him and the costar look 20 years younger
[12:50:56] <XXCoder> pete few changes but it works
[12:51:08] <XXCoder> it can be explained away that its alternate universe
[12:51:45] <CaptHindsight> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Surrogates
[12:51:51] <PetefromTn_> I think the reality is that everyone ages and people are forgiving of new actors taking famous roles AS_LONG_AS it is done with the correct care and passion for what made it famous in the first place
[12:52:03] <XXCoder> indeed
[12:53:25] <PetefromTn_> The new Star Wars movies are coming right around the corner. I am THRILLED at the possibilities they bring and honestly it is an amazing time to be a fan of SCI FI with all of the comics heroes and recreations of the most amazing movies of our times being redone with better tech and skills.
[12:54:14] <PetefromTn_> maybe I am just a geek at heart but I can't wait to see what they do with it.
[12:54:23] <Rab> They should turn the premise on its head, 30 years later genetic engineering is prevalent and unmodified humans are considered a threat.
[12:54:38] <CaptHindsight> PetefromTn_: things have come a long way from https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pFnLirXjjto Clutch Cargo
[12:55:26] <PetefromTn_> hehe thats cool
[12:56:32] <PetefromTn_> I remember one of my favorite movies was the old Flash Gordon from the 80's...
[12:57:38] <PetefromTn_> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x4mBGEdB-XE
[12:58:05] <CaptHindsight> he did a guest scene in Ted
[12:59:14] <toast-work> archivist: yeah, i'm looking at fairly modern stuff directly as it relates to engine performance
[13:02:41] <PetefromTn_> Oh yeah I didn't know that.
[13:03:11] <PetefromTn_> while it was really hokey it was sure a fun movie I thought. Would make for a great modern movie I think..
[13:06:48] <PetefromTn_> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=miU6ruUPZHI LOL I never saw that before... hilarious!
[13:08:43] <archivist> toast-work, zeeshan may have some resources as he play with engines
[13:09:03] <toast-work> definitely, I plan on asking him
[13:09:07] <PetefromTn_> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fcTPhAp3Ax8
[13:10:25] <archivist> toast-work, I got books and data from Lucas who made early injection as well as ignition systems
[13:11:09] <toast-work> paper-books or digital books? I'd love to take a look if they're available
[13:11:12] <toast-work> if not, no worries
[13:11:16] <_methods> wut i might have to watch ted now that's freakin hilarious
[13:11:44] <moorbo> it's a funny movie ted
[13:13:15] <PetefromTn_> I know right... thats some funny stuff.
[13:15:40] <archivist> toast-work, my stuff is paper, 99% not scanned but a reasonable amount catalogued http://www.collection.archivist.info/searchv13.php?searchstr=lucas
[13:15:44] <XXCoder> lol floating city
[13:16:00] <toast-work> that's awesome, ty sir
[13:16:35] <XXCoder> Oh that movie wherwe that talking teddy bear comes from - I hate movie since it so balantly stole from webcomic
[13:17:06] <XXCoder> http://www.cartoonbrew.com/comics/seeing-double-macfarlanes-ted-vs-imagine-this-60531.html
[13:18:51] <XXCoder> "Imange THIS" webcomic is gone because of it
[13:18:58] <XXCoder> I loved that webcomic
[13:38:31] <CaptHindsight> who make a rugged motorized screw jack with limit switches?
[13:43:19] <georgenz> I cant seem to figure out how to get jitter out of my z axis. Teco 2kW servo, just tuned it yesty. But its always had a small amount of jitter, not visible on dro.. but audible. Im concerned it will wear ballscrews etc.
[13:43:30] <georgenz> Anyone got any ideas?
[13:43:35] <JT-Shop> data:image/jpeg;base64,/9j/4AAQSkZJRgABAQAAAQABAAD/2wCEAAkGBxQQEhQUEBISFhUVFBgVFBUYFRYYFBUVFhYWFxgVFxUZHCggGBwlHxcUITEiJSorLi4uFyAzODMsNygtLysBCgoKDg0OGhAQGiwkHSUsLCwsLC0sLSwsLC8tLCwsLCwsNCwsLCwsLCwsLCwsLCwsLCwsLCwsLCwsLCwsLCwsLP/AABEIAOEA4QMBEQACEQEDEQH/xAAcAAEAAQUBAQAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAwECBAUGBwj/xABJEAACAgECAwQHAwYLBgcAAAABAgADEQQSBSExBhNBUQciMmFxgZEjQsEUM1KSodEkJUNTYnJzoqOxshWT0uHw8Rc1VGN0tML/xAAZAQEBAQEBAQAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAQIDBAX/xAAyEQEAAgIABAUCBAYDAQEAAAAA
[13:43:35] <JT-Shop> AQIDEQQSITETIkFRcRRhMoGx8AWRocHR8TNC4SMV/9oADAMBAAIRAxEAPwD3GAgIGPfrqkOHtrU9cM6g488EzM3rHeViJlLVarAFSCD0IIIPwIliYnsi+UICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgQ6vUCtGdgSFBJAGSceQmbWisTMrEbnTQ0cR1AA1DhWpfrWuC1SjkGB+8fP8J4q58n/ACTHln+cOs0r+H1XaGuvVX3WFNybEVCyEAkA5IDDMVimbLM63GiZmlYhDwnjAq06VhWa8eqKsEEkknJJHJfM/jJhzxTHy+vst6TNt+jP4ZxGwP3OpCiwjcrL7DL5e4jmPl9e2LNabcmSNSxaka3Xs3E9TmrAQEBAQEBAQEBAQEBAQEBAQEBAQEBAQNdruMVVP3b7y20NhUZuRJA5gY8DOOTPSs8s924pMxuGD2fXNlzVqyUkjajA
[13:43:36] <JT-Shop> jLEDcwB9kdRicOHjz25fwtZO0b7ttr9Wmnqe2w4StSzfBRnlPdSm5isONp1G5cCfShT3YuOksBLGtMsm47VDOc+Q3Vj37vcZ6/8A86ebvG9PP9VGuzM9HnaWvW2XZVhfgOzMQdyZxhAPZVfVGPeJ5r8BbBPPedzLtTiIyeWI0rx70n6XS2tWq2WlCQ7JtCBh1UMx5kdOXKenFwOS9ebs5X4itZ13Yus9LFFdj1nT3EoxUkNXg4OPObr/AA+8xvcMzxVYnWmRqPSfp66K7Wqt32bilXq7tisV3sc4UEhgPE4mI4G82msT29Wp4isRtdpPSbprKLbQlgeoKzUnbuZWdU3I2cMAWGfGLcFki0R7+pHEVmNrk9J+kaiy1RZvrCk0sFV2DOqZU52tjdk884ETwOSLRHv6n1FNbdJ2a4yuu01eoRWRX3gK2Nw2OyHOOXVSZ58uOcd5pPo7
[13:43:41] <JT-Shop> UtzV22k5tEBAQEBAQEBAQEBAQEBAQEBA0+t0l4uNtBq51qhDhj0LH7pHnPLfHkjJz11206VtXl1KThOvd2sruCCysjkucEMAQefxmsOW1rTW0amEtWIiJjs4b0tdo1apNLQ6u1j5tCMDgIfVQ4PIlscv6Pvn2OBwzzc9o6Q8PEX3HLDiNNw9tTqk0+nVLBpkOQSQj92d1xJAJwzlgMeBWey+SuPHOS3r+4ca1m1orDMGrfh/EK9TYK61uZnYVsWQJYStq5IBypO7Hh6vunHFkpxXDeSd69/s3etsWTqv7P8AGV4LdqK9Zpu8ZsbX9XJUE4ZS3JkbIOR/23lxzxFazSzNLximeaHX+l0J+QVOqqu65DnAB9ZHOMiebgd+LMTLtxGuTbhNOG0T6LW2099QawRn2MrvQpk5AYHDDPX649tpjJF8cTqdvPHl5bTHRDxLdrG1mtqp7qgB
[13:43:42] <XXCoder> holy crap
[13:43:48] <JT-Shop> c49jczVoFB5AsTljjp9M2kxjiuOZ3JO7TNtdFLezf8Wpr0fI7wpahxhRvKKyn44BB/Sl8f8A+3hynh+Tnet+ik/xXp/jd/8AYtnyuM/57fl+j24P+OHWzyuxAQEBAQEBAQEBAQEBAQEBAQINbv2N3W3fg7d3QH3zF98s8vdY1vq5vhuqZF7qitjqGYm57ByU+Ls33s+AH/fw4skx
[13:43:50] <JT-Shop> sorry
[13:43:54] <JT-Shop> http://image.tradett.com/images/newaylights/20130922124442896104321.jpg
[13:44:59] <Rab> CaptHindsight, are you looking for an industrial-grade jackscrew? Or something you might find on an RV?
[13:45:56] <CaptHindsight> Rab: http://www.northerntool.com/shop/tools/product_200381584_200381584
[13:46:33] <CaptHindsight> some customers break whatever you make for them
[13:46:45] <archivist> light weaight ones used to be available for satelite pointing
[13:47:29] <CaptHindsight> I used some lighter ones with a 100kh rating and they crashed them lifting 4KG loads
[13:47:38] <Cromaglious> heh
[13:47:39] <CaptHindsight> 100Kg rating
[13:47:40] <Cromaglious> nice
[13:47:57] <CaptHindsight> it's mounted on gantry
[13:48:25] <CaptHindsight> so of course they move the X before the Z and bend them
[13:48:36] <Rab> Warner Linear make actuators like that: http://www.warnerlinear.com/Default.asp
[13:49:19] <Cromaglious> so there is no interlock switch to prevent Z from moving until X is unfolded?
[13:49:46] <CaptHindsight> controlled by Linuxcnc and several PhD's :)
[13:51:08] <jdh> I'm playing with a bunch of LinMot's right now
[13:51:26] <PCW> georgenz: post a halscope plot of the jitter, otherwise its not really possible to guess whats going on
[13:52:00] <Cromaglious> HAHAHA like action mouths
[13:52:09] <Cromaglious> live
[13:52:28] <Cromaglious> VERY bad animation
[13:52:31] <CaptHindsight> Cromaglious: Clutch Cargo?
[13:52:41] <CaptHindsight> was from ~ 1960
[13:52:52] <Cromaglious> CaptHindsight, yeah
[13:53:02] <CaptHindsight> almost creepy
[13:53:19] <georgenz> Sure... whats the best way to grab a screen capture onl linux
[13:53:26] <Cromaglious> almost? Definately REALLY creepy
[13:54:00] <Rab> georgenz, I use xv, but only because it's familiar.
[13:54:26] <archivist> georgenz, it is it applications/accessories/take screenshot in this old linux box
[13:54:47] <georgenz> It not hunting... jst random jitter
[13:55:04] <georgenz> Sweet on my way into workshop... will do it shortly
[13:55:23] <Rab> Apparently The Gimp can take screenshots.
[13:55:28] <georgenz> Just halscope of following error?
[13:55:56] <Rab> There was some really basic screenshot that was in most Linux distros, but the name escapes me.
[13:56:28] <archivist> I use the pre installed default
[13:57:20] <alex4nder> Rab: import?
[13:57:37] <alex4nder> (worst name ever)
[13:57:51] <Rab> Looks plausible. Also xwd.
[13:57:59] <alex4nder> werd
[13:58:13] <Rab> Sorry, this is worse: "escrotum-git screen capture using pygtk, inspired by scrot"
[13:58:21] <alex4nder> : |
[13:58:52] <Rab> https://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php/taking_a_screenshot
[14:01:15] <Rab> Ooh yeah, import wins. Part of ImageMagick, outputs to common formats, fast usage.
[14:02:35] <Rab> Funny thing, the man page doesn't actually describe how to use it (invoke from command line, then click on window to capture).
[14:03:09] <Rab> (The root window also being a valid selection, of course.)
[14:04:25] <PCW> alt printscreen works on ubuntu not sure about debian
[14:06:09] <Rab> Doesn't seem to work with LinuxCNC boot disk Xfce environment.
[14:07:13] <_methods> apt-get install xfce4-screenshooter-plugin
[14:07:33] <alex4nder> "how many machinists does it take to make a screenshot?"
[14:07:36] <cradek> Rab: I happened to just answer this for someone else, here's a transcript: http://pastie.org/9996791
[14:07:52] <CaptHindsight> heh, reminds me of the tech support calls where people pressed their credit card or paperwork on the screen and pressed "print screen"
[14:08:39] <Rab> cradek, cool, thanks!
[14:47:12] <furrywolf> yay, shopmaster shipped my mt3 extension
[14:47:38] <XXCoder> finally
[14:50:13] <furrywolf> what's the cheapest place to find an AGM U1 battery?
[14:52:35] <furrywolf> also, can we please kill every ebay seller who lists the same identical item 6000 times with a different "for <random product>" in the title?
[14:52:55] <XXCoder> well it makes it more findable, but bit annoying yes
[14:54:24] <furrywolf> http://www.ebay.com/itm/SigmasTek-12V-35AH-Group-U1-Deep-Cycle-Sealed-Battery-/321661603397 is the cheapest I've found so far. there's a few listed for a couple bucks less, but they appear to be SLA, not AGM.
[14:55:51] <XXCoder> http://www.batterymart.com/p-YTX4L-BS-AGM-Maintenance-Free-Battery.html?utm_source=google&utm_medium=cpc&utm_term=YTX4L-BS&utm_campaign=PLA&gclid=Cj0KEQiA1NWnBRDchObfnYrbo78BEiQA-2jqBdby__WHf29w5uSkpi3KAUwooruoVk5xUOlLY7ZmU4caAjR38P8HAQ
[14:55:57] <XXCoder> anywhere near what you want?
[14:56:30] <XXCoder> free shipping special
[14:56:30] <furrywolf> that's not U1 size.
[14:56:39] <XXCoder> ok
[14:56:58] <furrywolf> that's a fucking TINY battery. 3Ah! U1 is usually 35Ah...
[14:57:16] <XXCoder> yea saw agm wondered if what you wanted. didnt see u1
[14:57:22] <furrywolf> http://shop.batterymart.com/search#w=U1
[14:57:53] <XXCoder> $77 cheapest
[14:57:59] <furrywolf> the ebay one is $63...
[14:58:05] <XXCoder> yeah
[14:58:13] <XXCoder> check shipping though is ebay one free too?
[14:58:17] <furrywolf> I need the type with lead posts on top, not the type with screw holes.
[14:58:18] <furrywolf> yes
[14:59:17] <furrywolf> argh! another webdesigner who felt compelled to make something utterly brain-damagedly simple, like going to the next page of search results, require tons of javascript.
[14:59:31] <furrywolf> and slow
[14:59:33] <furrywolf> and broken.
[14:59:42] <XXCoder> lets see how well aliexpress price em lol
[14:59:56] <XXCoder> not that I would trust em with battery
[15:00:27] <XXCoder> no result probably too large for cheap shipping
[15:00:53] <XXCoder> oh im wrong
[15:00:59] <furrywolf> and air shipping is questionable. (yes, you can ship sealed batteries air... no, they won't always take them)
[15:01:37] <roycroft> just label them as "energy containment apparatus" when you declare them on the shipping manifest
[15:01:59] <furrywolf> the guy at the local interstate battery suggested a Concorde if I want it to last the longest... he says every time he gets one in as a core, it's 10+ years old.
[15:02:34] <XXCoder> $100 for 100 ah deep cycle
[15:02:41] <XXCoder> 12v agm
[15:02:47] <XXCoder> big battery.
[15:03:00] <XXCoder> $471 shipping though lol
[15:03:04] <furrywolf> lol
[15:03:47] <XXCoder> 2v 1000AH agm battery lol
[15:03:53] <XXCoder> deadly.
[15:04:16] <XXCoder> yet anohter at 2v 2000AH
[15:04:28] <XXCoder> its worth 5 of my vans
[15:04:35] <XXCoder> $10k basically
[15:05:50] <XXCoder> yea nothing worth it from aliexpress, not surpised. heavy things tend not to
[15:06:26] <furrywolf> batteries are one of the few things still made in the US.
[15:08:29] <XXCoder> http://www.aliexpress.com/item/CNC-router-kit-metal-milling-machine-metal-engraving-machine-3050116C/32262332104.html
[15:08:32] <XXCoder> interesting
[15:08:57] <ssi> argh I'm stymied
[15:11:54] <XXCoder> interesting. http://www.aliexpress.com/item/PCB-2020B-engraving-machine-Mini-DIY-2020B-CNC-router-without-the-control-box-2020B-CNC-frame/1129455336.html
[15:12:01] <XXCoder> cheap but used ehh
[15:12:40] <XXCoder> looks like it is made from cheap plastic
[15:15:24] <XXCoder> furrywolf: think this is worth it http://www.aliexpress.com/item/3040-CNC-router-milling-machine-mechanical-kit-CNC-aluminium-alloy-Frame-ball-screw-for-DIY-user/2051273724.html
[15:15:36] <XXCoder> because I now has job that earns enough for me to afford it.
[15:15:41] <XXCoder> skip the crappy wood stage
[15:15:53] <XXCoder> go stright to crappy alum stage lol
[15:16:26] * furrywolf thinks very few things on aliexpress are worth it
[15:17:59] <furrywolf> that does look like a lot of aluminum for the price, however
[15:18:10] <XXCoder> shipping isnt too bad
[15:18:12] <XXCoder> $166
[15:19:43] <XXCoder> lol theres one $300 kit with $800 shipping. but then it has b5 inch block of something
[15:19:51] <XXCoder> looks like conscerete
[15:20:35] <furrywolf> lol
[15:20:50] <XXCoder> I would pour my own thanks LOL
[15:21:35] <furrywolf> I guess that's one way to add some mass to your machine, make it a bit more rigid...
[15:21:42] <XXCoder> jeez. one seller forgot one slight detail
[15:21:50] <XXCoder> how large working space is. :P
[15:22:05] <adoyle88> Hello everyone. My dad and I are attempting to make a CNC tubing bender and we have a few questions about using linuxcnc. Is it ok for me to ask them here?
[15:22:08] <XXCoder> for all I know it's 1"x1"x0.01"
[15:22:22] <XXCoder> ask away and see if someone knows
[15:22:29] * furrywolf waits for someone to build a large mill entirely from prestressed concrete
[15:22:31] <XXCoder> and wait a bit, that expert may take a while
[15:22:44] <cradek> adoyle88: absolutely. always go ahead and just ask
[15:22:48] <XXCoder> furry someone made small router cnc with epoxy granite
[15:23:23] <adoyle88> The bender we've built bends in a single plane so it just needs to feed the tube, make a bend and then repeat. We have a stepper motor that feeds the tube. That was easy enough for us to figure out.
[15:23:55] <adoyle88> What we need help with is using linuxcnc to trigger a solenoid operated hydraulic valve to pressurize the hydraulic cylinder. We would like to use an optical encoder wheel to count degrees of travel and reverse the valve when the bend reaches the target angle.
[15:24:18] <adoyle88> We are using a break out board from probotix. For the encoder, we planned to machine out our own slotted wheel and use a simple optical sensor.
[15:24:34] <adoyle88> First question: Can I output a signal to trigger the solenoid operated valve? Second: Can I use linuxcnc to count pulses from the optical sensor? Third: Can I send another signal when the target angle is reached?
[15:25:53] <XXCoder> furrywolf: another not bad one. larger and free shipping http://www.aliexpress.com/item/Free-shipping-3020-CNC-router-DIY-CNC-frame-with-trapezoidal-screw-for-small-engraving-machine/32286449808.html
[15:26:10] <_methods> adoyle88: i would say yes to all 3
[15:26:36] <XXCoder> encoder probably would work good for angle?
[15:26:42] <XXCoder> _methods: what ya think
[15:26:54] <_methods> he's making his own encoder
[15:27:10] <XXCoder> yea
[15:27:30] <_methods> but you could probably skip the encoder and just use a limit switch on a protractor base
[15:27:44] <furrywolf> adoyle88: yes on all three. but I don't know nearly enough to answer how.
[15:28:10] <XXCoder> adoyle88: is it always same angle?
[15:28:11] <furrywolf> _methods: that wouldn't be programmable
[15:28:38] <adoyle88> the angle varies
[15:29:06] <furrywolf> XXCoder: that one has normal screws, not ball.
[15:29:16] <XXCoder> yea and smaller than first obne
[15:29:21] <XXCoder> so forget that
[15:29:36] <_methods> then you'll need some sort of method to bend to set angles like you have planned with your encoder
[15:29:36] <adoyle88> for example, on of our pieces is a roll hoop for a car. It will bend 60 degrees, feed 15 inches, bend 90 degrees, feed 40 inches, bend 90, feed 15, bend 60
[15:29:38] <XXCoder> Engraving Area:390285mm
[15:29:44] <XXCoder> other is only 300x200
[15:30:37] <adoyle88> those values were arbitrary, they might make a ridiculous shape if you actually draw them
[15:30:44] <_methods> yeah
[15:30:58] <_methods> i understand you need to make multiple bends of diff angles on 1 piece
[15:31:08] <adoyle88> yep
[15:31:17] <_methods> an encoder should work
[15:31:55] <XXCoder> would guess - tolence level of say 0.1 degree?
[15:32:06] <adoyle88> more like .25 degree
[15:32:07] <_methods> that depends on the resolution of his encoder
[15:32:08] <Valen> morning chaps
[15:32:09] <XXCoder> I cant imange car frames being that precise
[15:32:22] <adoyle88> maybe even .5 degree. we have quite a bit of wiggle room
[15:32:38] <XXCoder> _methods: yeah was thinking about bounds but encoder probably can easily do wat better
[15:32:46] <furrywolf> my experience with prebent tube things is prepare for some prying anyway. :)
[15:33:07] <Valen> I'm trying to make some nice 7mm shaft for a bearing mount out of 4140 and I'm not having much luck
[15:33:50] <adoyle88> we have jigs that will massage pieces into place for welding
[15:34:06] <Valen> the surface finish is all yicky like its tearing the metal, if i use a carbide or one of those diamond shape HSS toolholders
[15:34:47] <_methods> i think the tubing bender would be a perfect match for classic ladder
[15:34:58] <furrywolf> adoyle88: linuxcnc should be able to do what you need, but I'm afraid I have no clue how to implement it.
[15:35:16] <_methods> but i don't know i've never tried to set somethign like that up with classicladder
[15:35:49] <furrywolf> you might be able to define the bending as an axis in torque servo mode, in which case no manual setup would be needed at all.
[15:36:15] <adoyle88> Valen: I actually work at a machine shop (a part is running right now while I get help here). What RPM are you turning?
[15:36:37] <Valen> thats a good question lol
[15:36:46] <XXCoder> that would work I would guess furry
[15:37:03] <Valen> we have a VFD on the lathe, but I don't know the relationship between motor and spindle RPM
[15:37:07] <XXCoder> drawing on screen would look really funny
[15:37:11] <Valen> it is going pretty fast
[15:37:27] <Valen> I found taking a larger cut seemed to help, so I was doing a .7mm finish pass
[15:37:40] <Valen> taking less seemed to make it more furry
[15:38:07] <adoyle88> Valen: When it looks like it is tearing, you generally need to speed up the spindle.
[15:38:26] <Valen> I'll give it a go
[15:38:43] <_methods> adoyle88: i'd look at some encoder feedback examples
[15:38:52] <furrywolf> XXCoder: I don't think it'll draw an accurate representation without significant coding, no matter how you implement it. as far as I know (which isn't much, I'll admit), none of the guis have any concept of bending. heh.
[15:38:55] <adoyle88> that finish pass is going to need a really high spindle speed.
[15:39:06] <XXCoder> indeed!
[15:39:13] <XXCoder> but if it works it works
[15:39:15] <Valen> its at a stage where the bearing won't fit on it, then if i rub it with sand paper for a few seconds its a kinda loose fit
[15:39:21] <XXCoder> pipes get bent and adoyle gets happy
[15:39:36] <Valen> what about the depth of cut?
[15:39:48] <adoyle88> XXCoder: It'll be alright if the drawing doesn't look right. We've used our mills as lathes by putting the part in the spindle and the tools on the table. Those never look right on the screen
[15:40:05] <adoyle88> that was for furrywolf*
[15:40:06] <XXCoder> adoyle88: damn
[15:40:14] <XXCoder> thats heck of hack
[15:40:39] <Valen> hack is when you do that but put a dremel on the table ;-P
[15:40:47] <furrywolf> lol
[15:40:56] <XXCoder> Valen: I once saw one shop that used dermel on spidle
[15:41:02] <XXCoder> so it could do 90 degree drills
[15:41:03] <cradek> I've sure put a bench grinder on the table
[15:41:11] <adoyle88> haha
[15:41:12] <XXCoder> spidle rotates then moves in so dermel drills
[15:41:22] <cradek> http://timeguy.com/cradek-files/01188770083/DSCN6327.JPG
[15:41:38] <cradek> grinding tooling for itself, actually
[15:41:39] <XXCoder> grinder lol
[15:41:52] <Valen> cradek: hmm, is it bad I'm thinking about doing that now for my shaft?
[15:42:06] <furrywolf> lol
[15:42:13] <cradek> what's bad about a clever setup to make a part you need with what you have?
[15:42:25] <cradek> that's called being a machinist
[15:42:55] <Valen> I should just be able to lathe a shaft to 7mm lol
[15:43:26] <furrywolf> I still want to use my mill to cnc sharpen drill bits. will need to do that one of these days.
[15:43:39] <Swapper> anyone seen any cheap thread mills (the cutting sort) on ebay ?
[15:43:43] <Swapper> cant find that realy
[15:43:47] <Swapper> would like to try it out
[15:43:47] <XXCoder> wouldnt lathe be better (or mill used as lathe)
[15:43:55] <cradek> the passable but not beautiful result: http://timeguy.com/cradek-files/01188770083/DSCN6329.JPG
[15:44:18] <XXCoder> cradek: you made own umm chuck?
[15:44:54] <cradek> changed a NMTB30 jacobs to QC30
[15:46:02] <_Sync_> Valen: try a hss bit, they are less likely to tear the metal
[15:46:18] <_Sync_> if it is particularily annoying, try a shear tool
[15:46:53] <cradek> Valen: yes, hss, and have it SHARP
[15:46:54] <adoyle88> can I share an imgur link here of my current abstract setup?
[15:46:58] <furrywolf> LOL! reading the local news... every year, on 4/20, one of the local parks gets filled with useless potheads. the cops told them last year they weren't allowed to do that. now they're claiming it's a "Free speech event" and can't be told no. the cops solution: reserve the park in advance for officer training on that day. :)
[15:46:58] <_methods> adoyle88: you'll probably need to do somethign like this
[15:46:58] <Valen> I have one of these http://www.eccentricengineering.com.au/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=2&Itemid=18
[15:47:01] <_methods> http://www.mogi.bme.hu/TAMOP/robot_applications/math-ch10.html
[15:47:11] <cradek> adoyle88: always
[15:47:50] <_Sync_> try it, those are said to be working fine
[15:48:05] <Valen> I did, no joy
[15:48:09] <Valen> well dad did anyway
[15:48:21] <Valen> though he was taking a fine cut for his finish pass
[15:48:23] <_Sync_> well, then something was wrong
[15:48:32] <_Sync_> those usually like a fine cut when sharp
[15:48:39] <_Sync_> but you need non suck HSS for your steel
[15:48:50] <adoyle88> we've made a gear box to turn multiple saws to cut grooves in stainless steel turbine backers: http://i.imgur.com/ZBsBj9w.jpg
[15:48:53] <_Sync_> preferrably cobalt containing
[15:49:21] <Valen> yep that is the one we have
[15:49:31] <cradek> adoyle88: neato
[15:49:40] <_Sync_> sharpened it properly?
[15:49:44] <Valen> yep
[15:49:48] <_Sync_> also do you know the state of your steel?
[15:49:51] <_methods> it's a vertical horizontal lol
[15:49:59] <Valen> comes pre-hardened and tempered
[15:50:13] <_Sync_> hm prehard, as expected
[15:50:14] <Valen> I believe its the 4140 steel, it doesn't like fine cuts for finishing, at least thats what everybody seems to say
[15:50:20] <_Sync_> yeah
[15:50:23] <_Sync_> because it is pre hard
[15:50:59] <Cromaglious> swapper I've been looking and haven't found any yet either
[15:51:00] <Valen> The CnC stuff yesterday came out ok ;-> http://imgur.com/a/ccQ3N
[15:51:16] <_Sync_> just get the grinder out
[15:51:19] <Swapper> Cromaglious: ok, weerd
[15:52:10] <Cromaglious> I found some not ebay but it's like $56 for one to do 1/8" screw hole
[15:52:21] <_Sync_> yeah
[15:52:25] <_Sync_> sounds reasonable
[15:52:34] <Valen> don't have a toolpost grinder :-<
[15:53:08] <Cromaglious> I don't have a grinder stable enough to use as a tool post grinder.
[15:53:27] <_Sync_> a regular good quality die grinder "works"
[15:53:47] <Valen> suggestions for how to hang on to the bastard?
[15:54:57] <Cromaglious> My dad has a nice potrer cable die grinder, but he's 4500 miles away
[15:55:00] <Cromaglious> My dad has a nice potrer cable die grinder, but he's 450 miles away
[15:55:54] <_Sync_> rough it out, and polish it
[15:55:59] <_Sync_> or use some non suck steel
[15:55:59] <adoyle88> anyone know of a good hal tutorial? I feel like a deer in headlights reading through some of the stuff
[15:56:06] <cradek> adoyle88: yes, the hal tutorial
[15:56:13] <Cromaglious> harveytool.com
[15:56:51] <adoyle88> advanced was the first result on google. this oughta be fun ;)
[15:56:55] <cradek> adoyle88: http://www.linuxcnc.org/docs/html/
[15:57:10] <cradek> this is the index to all the docs
[15:57:35] <adoyle88> awesome, thanks
[15:57:39] <cradek> looks like there are two hal tutorials now
[16:00:46] <Cromaglious> http://www.harveytool.com/cat/Thread-Mill-Cutters/Specialty-Profiles/Browse-Our-Products_203.aspx
[16:01:20] <Cromaglious> decent prices, but still to steep for my budget
[16:02:07] <adoyle88> I just remembered another interesting way we used a CNC mill. We put a rotary table facing upward on the table and a lathe tool holder in the spindle with a carbide insert. The spindle did not spin. Instead, it moved up and down cutting splines into a part in the rotary table.
[16:02:49] <adoyle88> once the spline was to depth, the table rotated and the machine cut the next spline
[16:05:11] <MrSunshine> Valen: thats freakin pornographic =)
[16:05:35] <Valen> heh as one of my friends said "you can tell who doesn't pay for machine time by the hour"
[16:06:48] <furrywolf> adoyle88: I've seen that done
[16:07:56] <adoyle88> we were doing 200 super high tolerance splined fittings. time was also crucial to make money. that was the best way to do it
[16:08:08] <adoyle88> best way for us*
[16:08:21] <Cromaglious> Swapper, Most of my sizes could be cut with a #8, #12, 1/4,5/16,1/2" cutters thread 8-32 to 7/8"-10
[16:09:45] * furrywolf wonders what a "shredder2" is, because despite the name, it sure doesn't look like a heavyweight robot wars entry...
[16:10:10] <Swapper> Cromaglious: i where looking for 1 of these https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T4ZVoHei1uE
[16:10:27] <MrSunshine> Valen: hehe .. =) my friends are lucky like that with my machine also ... 12 hours of work in cad/routing in the router ... payed for 1hour :P
[16:10:39] <Swapper> 60degree v cutter seems to be able to cut some metric threads (im all metric =:)
[16:11:14] <MrSunshine> well ... threads are 60 degrees? :P
[16:11:16] <Valen> furrywolf: its a 1.3kg robotwars robot
[16:11:29] <Deejay> gn8
[16:11:38] <Cromaglious> Swapper, yeah that's what the Harvey tool is
[16:11:44] <Valen> furrywolf: http://www.robowars.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=1751
[16:12:02] <furrywolf> I don't know if anything that small counts. :P
[16:12:29] <furrywolf> (yes, I'm aware they have classes for tiny robots.... but it just doesn't quite seem in the spirit)
[16:13:28] <Valen> well you give me the mill and the cheque book that will fit turning 400kg of aluminium into 10kg and I'll build one of those
[16:13:33] * furrywolf was planning on a SHW walker, but decided useful things were a much better use of time and money
[16:13:39] <furrywolf> lol
[16:13:44] <Valen> we only run 13.6kg bots here as our heaviest
[16:14:00] <Valen> but they typically have as much KE as a .50cal armour peircing round in their spinners
[16:14:52] <furrywolf> I was planning on a crusher... nothing like a nice fat hydraulic ram to make other things smaller.
[16:15:31] <Valen> yeah, you just need the other guy to hold still while you are doing that
[16:15:32] <Cromaglious> ok back to work figuring out DMX board
[16:15:49] <Valen> rather than hitting you with super high KE spinning weapons
[16:16:32] <furrywolf> nah. you just need jaws strong enough to take the blow, and fast enough closure that they don't get away...
[16:17:01] <furrywolf> the same hunk of steel that can take tends of thousands of pounds of force can also take a weapon hit
[16:17:12] <Valen> see you have all this fancy jaw mechanism, I have the same weight of steel as just a plain bar and its doing 5000RPM
[16:17:23] <furrywolf> the problem with hydraulics is most people who used them couldn't figure out speed, and they were SLOW. pathetically slow.
[16:17:36] <Valen> accumulators are explicitly banned
[16:17:39] <furrywolf> let's roll around at 1mph and take 30 seconds to actuate our weapon!
[16:17:49] <furrywolf> not in all arenas.
[16:17:54] <Valen> (mostly because I think the safety people are idiots)
[16:18:34] <Valen> put it this way, in the 13.6kg weight class, we punch holes in 6mm high hardness armour steel plate
[16:18:43] <Valen> like tear chunks of it off
[16:19:11] <Valen> crushers and the like will work, but in the "no spinners" class
[16:19:28] * furrywolf thinks no one has made a good crusher yet
[16:20:06] <furrywolf> there was one that did well in robot wars, can't remember its name right now, but otherwise every one I've seen sucked in some way.
[16:20:09] <Valen> because everybody who has competed knows they will get eaten in the first 4 seconds against a big spinner
[16:20:13] <Valen> razor
[16:20:27] <Valen> it stopped competing when people started entering spinners
[16:22:13] <Valen> razer sorry
[16:22:16] <furrywolf> my plan was a crusher with enough jaw strength to absorb a spinner hit... and a lot of those spinners are nice and squishy in the middle.
[16:22:18] <Valen> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Razer_(robot)
[16:22:41] <furrywolf> yep, that's the one.
[16:24:19] <Valen> right, this is what is winning these days http://files.tested.com/photos/2012/11/28/41692-lastrites_teaser.jpg
[16:24:20] <Valen> or similar
[16:24:44] <furrywolf> didn't that lose to a simple rammer recently?
[16:25:01] <Valen> see the 75lb lump of steel hanging off the front?
[16:25:04] <furrywolf> sewer snake or something like that
[16:25:21] <Valen> entirely feasible
[16:25:30] <Cromaglious> that looks like a Hard edge off a loader bucket
[16:25:40] <Valen> the two robot styles are brick and the grenade
[16:25:43] <Valen> mortal enemies
[16:26:31] <Valen> the heavyweights aren't as exciting as the feathers anyway
[16:26:42] <Valen> its too expensive to go as nuts with them
[16:26:59] <Valen> so they are always slow and pound for pound under performing
[16:28:02] <furrywolf> I've been doing some playing with high-efficiency hydraulics... some prototype motors are one of the first things on the list when I get my new machine fully functional...
[16:35:25] <furrywolf> your thread mentions ring deforming... what about a multi-part ring with some form of crushable material between the layers?
[16:35:41] <Valen> I have been thinking a hydraulic crusher for the sportsman (no crusher) class
[16:35:57] <Valen> I thought about it, but I don't have any facility to balance stuff
[16:35:59] <furrywolf> or mill a honeycomb shape into the middle of the ring
[16:36:37] <Valen> I might wind up doing that on this one, I've taken at least 100 grams out of the ring for the upgraded shell
[16:37:29] <furrywolf> that is, solid in the middle where it runs on the bearings, a layer of honeycomb, strong on the outside for the teeth... if you design the honeycomb right, it should transfer torque well, but crush without deforming the inside too much.
[16:38:26] <furrywolf> no crusher class?
[16:38:35] <Valen> yeah, I had the same idea
[16:38:42] <Valen> sorry, no spinner class
[16:39:10] <Valen> I'm just loath to do it because it runs the risk of unbalancing the ring and I don't have any good way of balancing it
[16:39:39] <furrywolf> hydraulics are hard to make both fast and strong, and that's where most designs fail... they make them strong, and they're so slow they spend the whole time getting killed without their weapon ever doing anything.
[16:39:46] <furrywolf> bring spare rings? heh
[16:40:10] <Valen> if the ring bends at speed it'll just destroy the robot ;->
[16:40:26] <furrywolf> speed and maneuerability are at least as important as weapon effectiveness.
[16:40:41] <Valen> actually driving ability is one of the most important things
[16:40:47] <Valen> and you can't buy it
[16:40:53] <furrywolf> yep
[16:41:01] <MacGalempsy> hello
[16:41:02] <Valen> the guy here who builds the scariest robots, is also the crappest driver
[16:41:04] <_Sync_> Valen: a balancing rig is easy to make
[16:41:06] <furrywolf> lol
[16:41:34] <Valen> _Sync_: balancing a ring with no center?
[16:41:49] <_Sync_> yeah you have to make an adapter for that
[16:41:53] <_Sync_> but the rest is simple
[16:41:53] <furrywolf> what about nested leaf springs?
[16:42:53] <furrywolf> like very curved spokes... able to transfer rotation well, but just springing on side impacts
[16:53:06] <furrywolf> bbl
[16:56:25] <_methods> do you need to feed those chinese db25 breakout boards with 5v from the pc you're using to control them?
[16:56:37] <_methods> or can you just power them with 5v from anywhere?
[16:59:08] <furrywolf> you can power them with 5v from anywhere, but keep in mind it'll be fed straight to the pc, so it needs to be regulated and clean, and won't be isolated.
[16:59:20] <furrywolf> I got an isolated 24v to 5v dcdc for mine
[17:00:17] <_methods> wasn't sure if the 5v needed to come from signal side
[17:01:02] <furrywolf> well, that's how the one I have is built. yours could be different. :P
[17:01:40] <_methods> it can be fed from both and it has jumpers to split for isolation
[17:03:47] <MarkusBec> where can i find the current information about installing the 7i92 ethernet mesa card
[17:04:23] <MarkusBec> the wiki infos seems to be outdated
[17:10:00] <georgenz> whats a good picture sharing website?
[17:10:29] <_methods> imgur
[17:10:49] <georgenz> sweet - I'll just sign up
[17:11:34] <_methods> you don't have to sign up
[17:11:41] <_methods> you can just upload the pics then share
[17:13:40] <georgenz> oh - i've jst signed up
[17:13:44] <georgenz> http://imgur.com/0yRUlA0
[17:14:01] <georgenz> this is my z axis chattering
[17:15:26] <MarkusBec> PCW: pcw_home any tipps for the 7i92
[17:15:33] <georgenz> teco 2kW motor and drive - not sure how to fix, sometimes it's not his bad, I'll move it to a position where it is less angry.
[17:16:24] <PCW> what are the units?
[17:17:40] <georgenz> http://imgur.com/c3BsHqJ
[17:18:08] <PCW> units?
[17:18:08] <georgenz> less angry, jitter noise never goes away, but it does get better or worse depending on position
[17:18:49] <georgenz> 1m (not sure)/div vertical
[17:19:01] <PCW> inches?
[17:19:06] <georgenz> metric
[17:20:11] <georgenz> 2msec/div horizontally
[17:21:01] <PCW> most of that is due to the encoder resolution limits
[17:21:27] <PCW> you can see that its quantized to +-2 counts
[17:22:59] <Tom_itx> maybe run a pico psu on it
[17:23:05] <PCW> a little I term may help get rid of it
[17:23:20] <Tom_itx> err wrong channel but you're here too :D
[17:23:32] <PCW> yeah a pico PS should run a J1900 fine
[17:23:41] <Tom_itx> i've got a 120 on this
[17:24:11] <PCW> much more than my J1900 HTPC (50W wall wart)
[17:25:13] <Tom_itx> i think i'll put an order together tonight
[17:25:23] <PCW> MarkusBec tips?
[17:25:28] <MarkusBec> PCW: is this the current how to vor hm2_eth and uspace installtion http://linuxcnc.org/index.php/english/forum/27-driver-boards/27253-7i80-and-7i77?start=50#51638
[17:25:42] <MarkusBec> for
[17:26:39] <PCW> should be OK (or you can download the packages from the buildbot if you dont want to build from source)
[17:27:23] <MarkusBec> how can i install it form the buildbot
[17:28:09] <PCW> I think the buildbot has some (rather terse) instructions
[17:28:40] <_methods> PCW: the 5i24 is the same as the 5i25 but low profile?
[17:30:08] <PCW> The 5I24 is a 72 I/O FPGA card (with 3x 50 pin connectors)
[17:30:44] <PCW> 5I25 is a 34 I/O FPGA card with (dual) parallel port type connectors
[17:31:00] <PCW> (also 5I24 has a bigger FPGA)
[17:31:11] <_methods> is there low profile version of the 5i25?
[17:31:13] <PCW> both are low profile
[17:31:19] <_methods> ah ok
[17:33:39] <_methods> you have the 5i25 7i76 plug and go kits in stock?
[17:33:49] <PCW> Yes
[17:34:00] <_methods> cool
[17:36:41] <georgenz> PCW, FYI and not sure if this makes any difference to your answer, it does this jittering whether P is at 1 or at 12, makes little difference
[17:36:55] <PCW> MarkusBec: other 7i92 (hm2_eth) hints:
[17:36:57] <PCW> Dont use a slow CPU (D525)
[17:36:59] <PCW> Preemt-RT 3.18.7 is a better RT kernel than the stock one with wheezy
[17:37:01] <PCW> Intel MACs need interrupt coalescing turned off
[17:37:02] <PCW> Set Ethernet device to an oddball IP address (say the EEPROM default of 10.10.10.10)
[17:38:03] <PCW> georgenz: that means its mainly in the drives velocity loop (assuming you just have P and FF1 in linuxcnc's PID loop)
[17:38:41] <georgenz> Yeah - I have P and FF1 set in linuxcnc
[17:39:30] <PCW> So you may need to tune the drives velocity loop
[17:40:57] <PCW> (I assume the drive is connected to the machine, bare drives are nearly impossible to tune)
[17:41:21] <georgenz> ok, that sortof makes sense too as I shorted the drive analog input to ground and it still did it
[17:41:55] <georgenz> yeah - it has maybe a 300kg spindle head hanging off it
[17:41:59] <PCW> may have to lower the drives velocity loop gain a bit
[17:42:04] <georgenz> jittering up and down
[17:42:24] <georgenz> ok, thanks i'll give it a go
[17:42:35] <georgenz> what about turning the drive onto auto tune?
[17:43:08] <PCW> you can try...
[17:43:53] <PCW> you could also just adjust the velocity loop gain
[17:44:25] <PCW> (assuming you have a easy way to do this)
[17:46:06] <georgenz> do you know what the load-inertia ratio does?
[17:46:39] <georgenz> the manual also refers to that under speed loop gain
[17:55:45] <PCW> you probably have to lower loop gain if you have a large load inertia ratio so they are related
[17:57:40] <asah> pcw: having issues in commutation on a 7i39 using an absolute encoder
[17:58:13] <asah> what is the best method to ensure I have correctly aligned the encoder to the electrical phase of the motor
[18:03:56] <MarkusBec> PCW: with the documatation and the buildbot version
[18:04:25] <MarkusBec> I get these error ERROR could not retrieve mac adress
[18:06:08] <Nick001-shop> <PCW> Is there info on using 5i25/7i76 cards to convert a Bridgeport Series 1 with a boss 5 control to Linuxcnc? Also keeping the large steppers.
[18:06:44] <renesis> when you do his nick like that its weird because it looks like you are quoting him
[18:28:45] <MarkusBec> PCW: ok it works e100 ethernet card seems to be not a good choice
[18:29:44] <furrywolf> why can't I find some low-power n-channel fets in a dip package? ought to be plenty for driving small loads...
[18:31:17] <furrywolf> I could just use three discrete fets.
[18:33:41] <renesis> dip is deader than spock
[18:34:02] <renesis> why cant you just to-220?
[18:35:08] <furrywolf> because I'm switching a few dozen ma? :P
[18:35:14] <furrywolf> i.e. completely overkill.
[18:35:34] <renesis> to-92 then
[18:36:01] <furrywolf> which is also dead...
[18:37:09] <renesis> basically thru hole is dead, but to-220 and to-92 fets are commodity stuff, dip fet is a bit specialized
[18:37:19] <renesis> soic fets happen a lot
[18:37:33] <furrywolf> I was hoping for a hex driver chip, so I could but both spindles in one chip and have it nice and neat.
[18:38:32] <furrywolf> a 74hc05 that was a bit beefier and let me hook the outputs to 12v would be perfect. heh.
[18:42:18] <furrywolf> my slot sensors have ttl-compatible outputs, while my breakout board wants me to pull down its internal 10v supply and reasonably low pullup resistors.
[18:42:52] <renesis> http://www.digikey.com/product-detail/en/CD4009UBE/296-2030-5-ND/67237
[18:42:56] <renesis> you cant use that?
[18:43:53] <furrywolf> you say dip is dead... 4000 series dip is deader. lol
[18:44:13] <renesis> they have 2000 of them in stock
[18:45:02] <furrywolf> those aren't open drain output, though
[18:45:46] <renesis> they sink 24mA and source 1.5mA
[18:46:09] <furrywolf> right, I don't want to source.
[18:46:27] <furrywolf> I'll just use discrete fets...
[18:46:36] <renesis> i think thats a good idea
[18:47:42] <furrywolf> http://www.ebay.com/itm/20pcs-BS270-400mA-60V-N-Channel-Enhancement-Mode-FET-/121575857572 looks like the cheapest non-smd fets I can find.
[18:47:55] <Jymmm> http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-31711446
[18:53:16] <PCW> asah: with absolute encoder I would just adjust offset till the motor runs at the same speed in both directions at a fixed BLDC voltage setting
[18:54:31] <PCW> MarkusBec, with e100 you may have to get ethtool and turn off rx irq coalescing
[18:55:18] <PCW> sudo ethtool -C ethX rx-usecs 0
[18:57:12] <MarkusBec> ok
[18:57:27] <PCW> Nick001-shop I dont know offhand of any Bridgeport specific instructions though it should be easier than a servo retrofit
[18:57:29] <PCW> (I expect the original stepmotors/drives are rather slow though)
[18:57:33] <MarkusBec> hmm 50000 jitter with the buildbot kernel
[18:57:50] <PCW> what hardware?
[18:57:55] <MarkusBec> j1900
[18:58:52] <PCW> yeah thats possible 3.18.7 is better (at least max Ethernet jitter is noticeably better)
[19:00:10] <MarkusBec> for 3.18.7 I have to build my own kernel?
[19:00:18] <PCW> stock kernel should be fine at 1 KHz servo thread. Preemt-RT 3.18.7 is fine on a J1800 at 2 KHz so J1900 should be similar
[19:01:03] <PCW> if you are running step/dir or velocity mode servos, 1 KHz servo thread should be fine
[19:01:28] <MarkusBec> I need a base thread
[19:01:42] <PCW> no base thread is possible
[19:01:55] <PCW> why do yo need a base thread?
[19:01:58] <MarkusBec> hm
[19:02:24] <MarkusBec> https://github.com/bjj/2x_laser/tree/5i25
[19:02:33] <MarkusBec> I would like to use this
[19:02:49] <MarkusBec> at the moment I used it with a 6i25
[19:04:34] <PCW> still not sure why you need a base thread
[19:05:58] <MarkusBec> ah
[19:06:11] <MarkusBec> ok :)
[19:06:30] <MarkusBec> its not used :)
[19:07:09] <furrywolf> PCW: how would I connect my spindle encoder to one of your boards? my current breakout board has on-board pull-ups and I'll be using open-drain outputs. just want to make sure I'm not building something I might have to redesign later. :)
[19:08:18] <PCW> Our encoder inputs are similar (when in TTL mode) 2K pullup to 5V
[19:08:46] <PCW> 1.65V threshold
[19:08:46] <furrywolf> ok, so I won't need to reengineer later. good.
[19:11:14] <furrywolf> can I wire the ttl-compatible outputs straight to your board? hrmm
[19:11:28] <furrywolf> if so, I might just not bother wiring spindle encoder now...
[19:13:17] <PCW> Thats a daughterboard input you _can_ wire TTL signals directly to the
[19:13:19] <PCW> FPGA card inputs but one slip with 12 or 24V and its all over
[19:14:10] <furrywolf> the sensors require regulated 5v, so if there's 12 or 24 coming out of them, something is wrong. :)
[19:14:23] <PCW> (encoder input are safe to +-25V momentarily)
[19:14:59] <PCW> the FPGA inputs are safe from -.6 to +8 or so
[19:15:40] <furrywolf> even if you have built-in pullups, unless they're really stiff, I can probably just wire the sensors right to them...
[19:15:44] <PCW> you can also use a parallel port breakout with the DB25 style FPGA cards
[19:17:05] <PCW> (like the 5i25/6i25/7i80DB/7i92)
[19:17:13] <furrywolf> I was thinking a 7i76e. I just can't afford one.
[19:18:11] <PCW> you could use a 7i92 plus your own breakout unless you have a toolchanger or something, a 7I76 or 7I76E is probably overkill
[19:19:17] <furrywolf> it's a lathe/mill combo machine with two of everything
[19:21:28] <LeelooMinai> Hmm, so do you people have shielded cables for spindles?
[19:21:50] <MarkusBec> yes
[19:22:00] <furrywolf> I do not, but I have regular capacitor start/run motors, no VFDs putting out lots of thd...
[19:22:44] <LeelooMinai> I am not sure if I should get normal 4-wire or insist on finding one with shield.
[19:22:58] <PCW> with VFDs, think 350V squarewaves
[19:23:48] <LeelooMinai> Right, I would think it's a good idea, but for some reason automationdirect has only unshielded
[19:24:04] <LeelooMinai> Which made me think if people don't use them or something
[19:24:13] <furrywolf> do you have a VFD, or is this a regular mains-powered motor?
[19:24:31] <LeelooMinai> I am just ordering 1HP VFD from there
[19:24:46] <PCW> also consider the almost unlimited ground bumping current of 350V squarewaves into stray cable/motor capacitance
[19:24:58] <LeelooMinai> I guess I will search for the cable in other places
[19:25:46] <LeelooMinai> Yes, I have shielded cables for steppers
[19:26:04] <furrywolf> you can get shielded cable on ebay, or from industrial suppliers... I got some igus chainflex and it's quite nice.
[19:26:11] <LeelooMinai> But nothing left for the spindle
[19:26:54] <LeelooMinai> I looked just now briefly, but most of them are unshielded
[19:28:53] <LeelooMinai> Damn audiophile speaker wires pop up everywhere:)
[19:29:39] <furrywolf> you need /4, right? /3 is much easier to find locally... (computer power cords, air conditioner cords, etc)
[19:30:12] <LeelooMinai> Yes, 4
[19:30:56] <LeelooMinai> I wonder if one of those "armored" wires could be considered shielded... It has a metal armor that is conductive - so maybe to some extent?
[19:31:12] <LeelooMinai> Assuming I connect it to ground that is
[19:31:41] <furrywolf> yes, they're probably pretty well shielded. they're not, however, very flexible.
[19:32:45] <LeelooMinai> Right, I probably want some decent flexibility as the spindle moves
[19:33:32] * LeelooMinai notes "Do not use Romex wire"
[19:34:25] <furrywolf> http://www.ebay.com/itm/10ft-Increment-New-Olflex-12-4-Orange-Flexible-VFD-Servo-Cable-600V-701204-/191514241925 that looks nice and heavy-duty.
[19:35:13] <LeelooMinai> $64 though and with silly Canadian dolar standing, that would be above $80
[19:35:34] <LeelooMinai> Kind of expensive for 10 feet:)
[19:36:55] <furrywolf> hrmm, everything on ebay.ca seems to cost more than it should.
[19:38:05] <LeelooMinai> Hmm, the automationdirect guys sell the software to program those drives separatelly. Only $9 it seems, but still a bit lame
[19:38:25] <furrywolf> and if I select canada only, no search has any results.
[19:39:21] <jdh> surely it is available elsewhere
[19:39:27] <LeelooMinai> But works only on Windows.. so I guess it would be awkward to use it from Linuxcnc
[19:39:36] * furrywolf concludes canada has no industry
[19:39:39] <LeelooMinai> Linuxcnc machine that is
[19:40:20] <LeelooMinai> But it spawned Justin Beiber - that has to count for something
[19:41:52] <furrywolf> that seems like a good reason to nuke canada.
[19:42:08] <LeelooMinai> O, I take it back - they have free download, the CD is $9
[19:44:21] <furrywolf> bbl, time for work again
[19:47:08] <Tom_itx> PCW did you test eth on j1800 / 1900?
[19:53:53] <MacGalempsy> reading through the integrator manual, I see this line about cycle time, saying the display will sleep between polls. what are polls?
[19:54:29] <LeelooMinai> It usually means something requesting data at some intervals.
[19:55:26] <LeelooMinai> Polling would be requesting data from some device, while interrupt-driven would be device signalling that it has data available - two methods.
[19:56:33] <MacGalempsy> I notice that when using PNCconf that variable is left out of the ini file, would it be better to keep it out?
[20:11:50] <PCW> Tom_itx: yes
[20:13:48] <PCW> J1800 is good for 1 KHz with stock kernel 2Khz with newer 3.18.7 kernel (tested with 7I76e though all Ethernet cards are basically the same)
[20:15:15] <CaptHindsight> http://www.ebay.com/itm/271675811549 144" x 48" cnc router $3500 or best
[20:18:53] <PCW> No Z?
[20:19:55] <Jymmm> PCW: Z http://i.ebayimg.com/00/s/MTE5OFgxNjAw/z/LAkAAOSwQJhUbL0i/$_57.JPG
[20:19:57] <CaptHindsight> http://i.ebayimg.com/00/s/MTE5OFgxNjAw/z/LAkAAOSwQJhUbL0i/$_57.JPG it's got one but maybe they don't like Z or are trying to keep it quiet :)
[20:20:35] <Jymmm> belt Y
[20:20:40] <renesis> wtf timing belt
[20:20:53] <CaptHindsight> yeah, kinda weeny
[20:21:09] <Jymmm> Not my first choice, but does work
[20:21:12] <renesis> prob doesnt have a linear encoder?
[20:21:21] <renesis> nice envelope, tho
[20:21:23] <CaptHindsight> all the axis are belt driven!
[20:21:30] <renesis> jezus fuck
[20:21:34] <Tom_itx> any comments on rosewill pc cases compared to say apex...
[20:21:34] <CaptHindsight> http://www.ebay.com/itm/271675811549
[20:21:59] <renesis> rosewill is just branded china CM stuff
[20:22:15] <renesis> kind of a gamble, but ive gotten good shit from them
[20:22:17] <PCW> Z is pneumatic?
[20:22:34] <zeeshan> toastydeath: http://books.sae.org/b-966/
[20:23:19] <renesis> i would trust rosewill more than other random china parts, i had one of their 'high end' atx psu, worked well never fucked up
[20:23:40] <Tom_itx> i've been happy with my apex
[20:23:45] <Tom_itx> they look similar
[20:23:45] <renesis> hard a rosewill multi card reader just give up one day
[20:23:54] <renesis> *had
[20:25:12] <Tom_itx> i assume that asrock Q1900 has thumb boot option
[20:26:01] <renesis> arent apex pretty high end?
[20:26:13] <renesis> like, lian-li level stuff
[20:26:22] <Tom_itx> i dunno, it's about 40 bux
[20:26:33] <Tom_itx> about what i gave for my mini itx one
[20:26:42] <Tom_itx> 300w psu
[20:26:55] <Tom_itx> plenty for that asrock board
[20:26:56] <renesis> i dont trust psu that ship with cases
[20:27:26] <Tom_itx> i've lost more addon ones than stock ones
[20:27:34] <renesis> im fine with a rosewill 80+ rated psu, i wouldnt be confortable with a psu shipped in a rosewill case
[20:28:14] <Tom_itx> i think i'll stick with apex for the same price
[20:29:08] <renesis> they have a city of industry office, you can go troll them if it fucks up
[20:32:31] <Jymmm> http://7online.com/pets/meet-the-hulk-a-173-lb-pit-bull/513062/
[20:37:23] <zeeshan> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KWhrfoTLx7w
[20:37:26] <zeeshan> running this baby at school
[20:37:26] <zeeshan> :D
[20:37:34] <jdh> http://www.ebay.com/itm/251796295774
[20:38:12] <LeelooMinai> ...
[20:38:40] <PCW> Tom_itx if you mean will it boot from USB sure (thats how I installed Ubuntu and also how i check the parallel port with wheezy)
[20:39:21] <Tom_itx> ok i want the size of the itx but i think i'll get the micro atx
[20:39:24] <MacGalempsy> zeeshan: pic of the product?
[20:39:36] <zeeshan> i got distracted, dont have any
[20:39:39] <zeeshan> will take some more videos tomorrow
[20:40:20] <MacGalempsy> lol. everyone gets caught up in the awesomeness of the motion then forgets about the product
[20:40:25] <zeeshan> haha
[20:40:29] <zeeshan> nah some students came
[20:40:33] <zeeshan> and dragged me away
[20:40:33] <zeeshan> :/
[20:40:47] <MacGalempsy> you are a professor?
[20:40:51] <zeeshan> no
[20:40:51] <zeeshan> ta
[20:41:11] <MacGalempsy> grad student ta?
[20:41:15] <zeeshan> ya
[20:41:26] <MacGalempsy> when will you graduate?
[20:41:51] <zeeshan> next year for my masters
[20:42:07] <MacGalempsy> actually, the more appropriate question for grad students is when will you get the degree. (personal experience)
[20:42:12] <zeeshan> im contemplating doing phd, but too tired of school
[20:42:22] <zeeshan> did 3 years of college, 4 years undergrad, now 2 years masters
[20:42:23] <zeeshan> tired :-)
[20:42:32] <zeeshan> 4 more years for phd is too much
[20:42:44] <Tom_itx> what you gonna do with all that smarts now?
[20:42:51] <MacGalempsy> heheh. after 12 years nickle and diming my way through college, I felt it was time to start working
[20:42:54] <zeeshan> sit and do nothin
[20:42:57] <MacGalempsy> lol
[20:43:15] <zeeshan> i feel like if i do phd
[20:43:17] <zeeshan> ill limit myself
[20:43:18] <zeeshan> a lot
[20:43:21] <zeeshan> to a certain field
[20:43:31] <zeeshan> and forget all my important mech eng knowledge
[20:43:38] <MacGalempsy> they say to me, "You have a masters, you must be smart." my reply is usually, " I was too stupid to quit"
[20:43:38] <zeeshan> thats the main reason stopping me
[20:43:44] <zeeshan> pay is ok for phd
[20:43:53] <zeeshan> haha
[20:44:05] <zeeshan> masters is a good thing, if youre doing it in something good
[20:44:22] <CaptHindsight> just write "vocational school start student" on the job apps
[20:44:27] <zeeshan> im gaining a lot of knowledge in machining and metal forming
[20:44:35] <zeeshan> that i didnt get to learn much in detail in undergrad
[20:44:37] <zeeshan> so its good
[20:44:46] <CaptHindsight> star/start
[20:45:17] <zeeshan> MacGalempsy: what was your thesis
[20:45:33] <CaptHindsight> milling, sawing, drilling machinering specialist
[20:45:51] <MacGalempsy> http://books.google.com/books/about/A_Hydrogeologic_and_Water_quality_Evalua.html?id=_v6CPgAACAAJ
[20:46:08] <MacGalempsy> I didnt know they made it into a book. lol
[20:46:26] <CaptHindsight> saw the movie? :)
[20:46:27] * zeeshan had to look up hydrogeology
[20:46:38] <MacGalempsy> CaptHindsight: I wish!
[20:46:59] <zeeshan> geology is a cool area
[20:47:18] <MacGalempsy> basically, I sampled about 60 locations, and ran every chemical attribute you could think about, then characterized an area with the results
[20:47:21] <zeeshan> and i also like it has real applications
[20:47:23] <LeelooMinai> zeeshan: Did you buy that shielded vfd cable you wre looking for?
[20:47:31] <zeeshan> LeelooMinai: i ran non shielded
[20:47:36] <zeeshan> but most of my stuff is digital differential signals
[20:48:00] <LeelooMinai> zeeshan: I mean for motor/spindle driving - the power cable
[20:48:01] <zeeshan> and vfds are in another box
[20:48:09] <zeeshan> yea thats what im talking about
[20:48:30] <LeelooMinai> Hmm... digital signals?
[20:48:35] <zeeshan> MacGalempsy: you illegally dumped chemicals!
[20:48:42] <zeeshan> and found traces of it in other spots? :D
[20:49:02] <MacGalempsy> nothing was illegal!
[20:49:22] <zeeshan> LeelooMinai: im a visual person
[20:49:24] <MacGalempsy> we performed some dye trace studies
[20:49:28] <zeeshan> https://www.flickr.com/photos/128539016@N05/16242463226/
[20:49:36] <zeeshan> if you look at the sectio nwhere the vfds are
[20:49:43] <MacGalempsy> good story, you know flourocene dye? its the green color in antifreeze
[20:49:49] <zeeshan> the only signal is a modbus signal going to the vfds
[20:50:02] <zeeshan> and the analog signal to the servo drives is shielded
[20:50:13] <zeeshan> so theres really nothing in that box that is suspectible to noise issues
[20:50:23] <MacGalempsy> it is an inert chemical that doesnt break down unless in sunlight.
[20:50:29] <zeeshan> which means , no point in running vfd cable
[20:50:34] <zeeshan> shielded
[20:50:44] <LeelooMinai> zeeshan: Yes, well, I mean VFD <-> motor/spindle cable
[20:50:54] <CaptHindsight> MacGalempsy: how far from the source were you able to trace it?
[20:50:59] <MacGalempsy> one day I was preparing some charcoal packets that we collected from a trace and spilled some on my pants
[20:51:08] <zeeshan> so how much do you pour in
[20:51:10] <zeeshan> of this dye?
[20:51:14] <MacGalempsy> washed that shit out like 5 times until it disappeared
[20:52:34] <MacGalempsy> then a few months later I was at a strip club and was getting a lap dance, but the stripper was like 1ft off me, she kept looking at my pants and wouldnt give the service she was paid for. then I looked down and that flouroscene stain looked like the largest load you ever seen under blacklight
[20:53:13] <zeeshan> LOL
[20:53:18] <zeeshan> nice!
[20:53:22] <MacGalempsy> worst part was no refund!!!
[20:54:17] <MacGalempsy> so we never got dye back from our tests because the flow system was so complex it must have ended up out of the study area
[20:54:47] <zeeshan> is it supposed to make its way to ground water?
[20:54:56] <zeeshan> cant you use like floating probes
[20:54:57] <zeeshan> with gps
[20:55:03] <zeeshan> but iguess this was a while ago :P
[20:55:24] <MacGalempsy> no to perform a dye trace, you go to a place where groundwater sinks into the ground, like a sinkhole
[20:56:15] <MacGalempsy> you dump in a lot of inert dye, increase the salinity, or some kind of tracer, then with dye you go to all the springs, seeps, etc. and put carbon packets
[20:56:18] <zeeshan> wait
[20:56:24] <zeeshan> water sinks in a sink hole
[20:56:57] <MacGalempsy> in limestone, that is why a sink hole is there, because the rock dissolves and is flushed out the bottom
[20:56:58] <zeeshan> http://www.securefsi.com/images/sinkholefaq/sinkhole-formation.jpg
[20:57:10] <zeeshan> xcrazy
[20:57:22] <MacGalempsy> yeah, that is a good image
[20:57:52] <zeeshan> limestone
[20:57:59] <zeeshan> is the rock thats made from organic stuff
[20:58:08] <zeeshan> getting crushed by pressure and heated
[20:58:10] <zeeshan> yea?
[20:58:10] <MacGalempsy> you time the removal and replacement of the carbon packets, then analyze the packets under blacklight
[20:58:15] <zeeshan> powdery stuff
[20:58:44] <MacGalempsy> limestone is typically precipated from atmospheric CO2 in water due to pressure changes
[20:59:09] <MacGalempsy> Limestone is (Ca,Mg)CO3
[20:59:41] <MacGalempsy> dissolved in H2O it breaks down to Ca+2 and HCO3-
[21:00:03] <zeeshan> ca+ sounds delicious
[21:00:06] <zeeshan> 2
[21:00:10] <zeeshan> tums is so good
[21:00:18] <zeeshan> im messing around
[21:00:23] <zeeshan> anything ionic is prolly bad for you
[21:00:24] <zeeshan> :)
[21:00:25] <MacGalempsy> That is calcium bicarbonate ;P
[21:01:04] <zeeshan> hey
[21:01:06] <zeeshan> do alluvial fans
[21:01:12] <zeeshan> always contain gold?
[21:01:26] <MacGalempsy> sure, probably the best to mine.
[21:01:27] <zeeshan> in areas where there is known to be gold
[21:01:41] <MacGalempsy> easiest anyways because they can be sorted
[21:01:41] <zeeshan> now the q is
[21:01:57] <zeeshan> will only ancient alluvial fans contain gold
[21:01:59] <zeeshan> or even modern ones
[21:02:10] <MacGalempsy> there is a platinum mine in siberia that is an alluvial deposit with thumb size nuggets
[21:02:16] <zeeshan> holy cow
[21:02:28] <MacGalempsy> contents are based on the sourcing material
[21:02:54] <MacGalempsy> if you eroded a gold bearing rock, the gold will be in the alluvial fan
[21:02:58] <zeeshan> so you need to look at where the stream flowed
[21:03:08] <zeeshan> and analyze what minerals it contians
[21:03:20] <MacGalempsy> a stream would be called a fluvial deposit
[21:04:25] <MacGalempsy> zeeshan: finding where the old stream flowed is the best place to look
[21:04:37] <MacGalempsy> that is how we work in the oil and gas market, too
[21:05:14] <zeeshan> look for gold! :P
[21:05:18] <zeeshan> not black gold
[21:07:48] <zeeshan> MacGalempsy: you think in this day and age
[21:07:56] <zeeshan> all the hot spots for rare metals are alrewady found?
[21:08:06] <zeeshan> i know greenland is a big hotspot
[21:08:12] <MacGalempsy> not a chance. think of all that stuff that is under jungle.
[21:08:15] <zeeshan> cause as the glacier receeds, theyre getting access
[21:08:33] <zeeshan> yea
[21:08:35] <zeeshan> but arent there companies
[21:08:38] <zeeshan> that just fly over that stuff
[21:08:45] <zeeshan> map the areas, and know "yea this is garbage"
[21:08:46] <zeeshan> "move on"
[21:08:49] <zeeshan> all day long :)
[21:09:01] <MacGalempsy> if they even waste their time to fly over
[21:09:37] <zeeshan> http://www.hamarisite.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/11/Divak-Diamond-Mine-Canada.jpg
[21:09:38] <MacGalempsy> most mining seems to be done with sample counts
[21:09:38] <zeeshan> like
[21:09:44] <zeeshan> how do you find a random spot like this
[21:10:05] <zeeshan> its in the middle of no where.
[21:10:06] <MacGalempsy> random luck!
[21:10:28] <zeeshan> well shit dude
[21:10:34] <zeeshan> i forgot the name of that formation
[21:10:39] <MacGalempsy> you send out punk grad students to collect samples and run analysis,
[21:10:42] <zeeshan> its like an expanding chimney stack
[21:10:44] <zeeshan> from lava coming up
[21:10:48] <zeeshan> that forms the diamonds
[21:10:51] <MacGalempsy> komadite
[21:11:01] <MacGalempsy> kommadeite
[21:11:22] <MacGalempsy> something like that, basically an extinct volcano that had a high organic content in the magma
[21:11:24] <zeeshan> komberlite
[21:11:26] <zeeshan> close
[21:11:27] <zeeshan> haha
[21:11:31] <MacGalempsy> kimberlite
[21:11:34] <zeeshan> ah
[21:11:37] <zeeshan> dude
[21:11:40] <georgenz> Hey PCW, thanks a lot for your help, the z is much better after taking out the P in the drive. It still looks the same on the HALscope but the noise and vibration is night and day better.. legend!
[21:11:42] <zeeshan> like finding that looks next to impossible
[21:11:53] <zeeshan> youd have ltitle to no signs visually on the surface
[21:12:04] <zeeshan> youd need some sort of wave based imaging technique
[21:12:15] <zeeshan> so if that pipe is found using an imaging technique
[21:12:20] <MacGalempsy> you would probably want to know the larger scale geology and put it in a historical context
[21:12:22] <zeeshan> then wouldnt it be just as easy to fly over random spots and map
[21:13:04] <MacGalempsy> I heard about a canadian grad student who was finding small diamonds in stream samples, continued to the work and found the source. she is supposedly a billionaire now
[21:13:05] <zeeshan> those pipes seem like random though
[21:13:07] <zeeshan> without much history
[21:13:15] <zeeshan> its an under ground phenomena
[21:13:23] <zeeshan> lava finds a weak spot
[21:13:26] <zeeshan> and shoots up
[21:13:31] <zeeshan> but doesnt penetrate through the surface
[21:13:42] <zeeshan> well not that i think about it
[21:13:49] <MacGalempsy> lava is gone by then, those are down below the volcanic necks
[21:13:57] <zeeshan> maybe all volcanos that are dormatint should have those pipes
[21:14:25] <zeeshan> MacGalempsy: thats crazy about the grad student
[21:14:43] <zeeshan> the stuff interests me enough to use mech eng somehow to make equipment for it
[21:14:46] <MacGalempsy> yeah. awesome huh?
[21:14:49] <zeeshan> for prospectingt
[21:15:38] <MacGalempsy> brb
[21:15:45] * furrywolf thinks one of these days debeers will no longer run a cartel, and the price of diamonds will plummet.
[21:16:10] <zeeshan> furrywolf: that would be sweet
[21:16:19] <zeeshan> then we would have cheaper cutting tools!
[21:16:19] <zeeshan> :D
[21:16:33] <zeeshan> i was watching some pvd cutting tools
[21:16:37] <zeeshan> they eat aluminum like its a joke
[21:17:36] <zeeshan> http://photographyunderpressure.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/01/IMG_1608.jpg
[21:17:37] <zeeshan> jdh
[21:17:41] <zeeshan> would you dive in that stuff
[21:17:45] <zeeshan> that looks like scary shit!
[21:18:33] <jdh> looks cool
[21:19:09] <jdh> eagles nest is kind of like that. mostly a straightish drop down to debris cone at 130ft
[21:19:21] <zeeshan> looks dangerous :p
[21:19:51] <furrywolf> looks remarkably pleasant as dives go.
[21:20:29] <furrywolf> think about the divers patching holes in sunken oil tankers, diving in spent fuel pools,...
[21:20:39] <jdh> doesn't look like most .us caves
[21:21:14] <MacGalempsy> btw...diamonds are junk. no a real man has an Alexandrite
[21:21:36] <MacGalempsy> or how about a red emerald?
[21:21:43] <zeeshan> hahja
[21:21:47] <zeeshan> arent those suppoed to be green
[21:22:01] <MacGalempsy> normally yes/
[21:22:09] * furrywolf has no jewelry, and no plans to get any
[21:22:19] <zeeshan> to be honest, this might sound dumb
[21:22:33] <MacGalempsy> but in one spot in SW Utah they exist and for 1ct is like 10K
[21:22:33] <zeeshan> but i was amazed to find out that msot of these fancy jewels
[21:22:42] <zeeshan> are just a special combination of different metals
[21:22:54] <zeeshan> mixed with the right hand of the periodic table
[21:22:58] <MacGalempsy> the proper term is Trace Metal
[21:23:34] <zeeshan> google says red emerald is a form of bixibite
[21:23:35] <zeeshan> or whatever
[21:23:49] <zeeshan> but its just Be3Al2(SiO3)6
[21:23:55] <MacGalempsy> yeah, bixbite is the scientific name
[21:24:03] <zeeshan> all those elements arent rare :P
[21:24:16] <MacGalempsy> no, but in that combo they are
[21:24:22] <zeeshan> yes
[21:24:38] <MacGalempsy> bixbite is the one I want to prospect for on dirt bikes this summer
[21:24:41] <zeeshan> you're paying for the combination
[21:24:45] <zeeshan> when you pay the high price
[21:24:48] <zeeshan> is what im trying to get at :P
[21:25:01] <zeeshan> MacGalempsy: where do those exist?
[21:25:03] <zeeshan> what regions
[21:25:07] <MacGalempsy> SW Utah
[21:25:19] <zeeshan> ignore my dumbness
[21:25:21] <zeeshan> but why utah
[21:25:24] <furrywolf> I think once the diamond cartels start to lose their control, artificial diamonds will greatly grow in popularity and fall in cost... my understanding is the actual production process isn't that expensive at all.
[21:25:24] <zeeshan> why not toronto, canada
[21:25:32] <zeeshan> what makes utah have em and not toronto canada
[21:25:46] <zeeshan> furrywolf: what!
[21:25:51] <zeeshan> its a time consuming process
[21:26:00] <MacGalempsy> not sure the exact reason
[21:26:13] <zeeshan> MacGalempsy: like do they do a surface scan
[21:26:20] <zeeshan> of the elements in the ground
[21:26:28] <zeeshan> surface/subsurface
[21:26:35] <furrywolf> it's a piece of equipment that could be mass-produced for about the cost of a single diamond out of it. even if it takes two weeks, and has a 25% success rate, it'll pay for itself in a couple months.
[21:26:40] <zeeshan> i think of the world as a big blob of metal
[21:26:43] <MacGalempsy> no, like look at a bunch of places on google earth, then get on dirt bikes and ride like hell to the locations and check them out
[21:26:45] <zeeshan> its certainly not isotropic
[21:26:52] <furrywolf> and that's two weeks of unattended just-sitting-there, not requiring an operator.
[21:26:57] <zeeshan> yes you have certain alpha and beta phases
[21:27:04] <zeeshan> but the majority of it should still have all the elements
[21:27:14] <zeeshan> MacGalempsy: rofl
[21:27:31] <zeeshan> im still waiting on my gun license
[21:27:39] <zeeshan> before i can go deep into the woods
[21:27:56] <zeeshan> dont want to be a bear's dinner
[21:28:06] <furrywolf> eww, you live somewhere that has licenses.
[21:28:29] <MacGalempsy> furrywolf: right?
[21:28:59] <MacGalempsy> my buddy craig said that about canada
[21:29:04] <MacGalempsy> shotgun with slugs
[21:29:34] <PetefromTn_> http://knoxville.craigslist.org/tls/4914176172.html pretty cool little box
[21:29:49] <MacGalempsy> zeeshan: you should get this http://www.magnumresearch.com/firearms/magnum-research-desert-eagle-357-magnum-titanium-gold.asp
[21:29:58] <MacGalempsy> but in 50 cal
[21:30:06] <zeeshan> are you being racist
[21:30:06] <zeeshan> rofl
[21:30:21] <MacGalempsy> no, its the coolest
[21:30:25] <PetefromTn_> I am actually looking into a nice Mossberg 590 A1
[21:30:27] <zeeshan> lol thats like a gansgeter gun
[21:30:56] <zeeshan> i honestly wanted a rifle
[21:30:56] <MacGalempsy> im sure if you got a home invader, you would make the news
[21:31:05] <zeeshan> but then my buddy told me, by the time im done pulling out the rifle
[21:31:09] <zeeshan> the bear will already be eating me
[21:31:18] <zeeshan> and a sawed off shotgun is illegal here
[21:31:36] <MacGalempsy> so dont saw it off, just get the shortest barrel that is legal
[21:31:55] <PetefromTn_> http://www.mossberg.com/assets/scripts/timthumb.php?w=625&zc=0&src=http://www.mossberg.com/sites/default/files/1392322270/%2351417_590A1_Magpul_Fluted18.png
[21:32:02] <zeeshan> i think 8-1/2" is the shortest
[21:32:16] <MacGalempsy> I think 8.5 is illegal
[21:32:21] <MacGalempsy> that basically is a sawed off\
[21:32:37] <zeeshan> that'd be nice
[21:32:39] <zeeshan> you should send a warning shot
[21:32:43] <MacGalempsy> PetefromTn_: black is bad
[21:32:46] <zeeshan> when the bear is far away
[21:32:52] <zeeshan> and if its within 20 feet of you
[21:32:55] <zeeshan> you can finish him off
[21:32:56] <PetefromTn_> I like that magpul one..
[21:33:07] <adam3999_> magpul stuff on a shotgun still seems odd but it is growing on me
[21:33:45] <PetefromTn_> that stock is very adjustable and the cocking forend has the ridges on both ends so it is harder for your hands to slip off..
[21:33:49] <zeeshan> http://globalnews.ca/news/365045/sawing-off-a-shotgun-can-mean-serious-prison-time-but-loophole-allows-new-shotguns-with-8-5-inch-barrels/
[21:33:52] <zeeshan> nice this article says its good !: P
[21:34:36] <zeeshan> im not a big fan of guns
[21:34:38] <adam3999_> pete if you can find a cheap beat up rem 870 you can also get it totally refurbished by wilson combat
[21:34:50] <zeeshan> but they do serve a good purpose in the bush
[21:34:53] <PetefromTn_> yeah I know but I don't really like the 870
[21:35:26] <Crom_> I prefer Mossberg 500's 870's are OK.. to much maintenance though
[21:35:27] <adam3999_> 590 is the way to go then
[21:35:29] <MacGalempsy> i got an 870 and would rather get a maritime mossburg than waste the money on rebuilding
[21:35:54] <PetefromTn_> my grandfather had one years ago and I did not like the location of the cocking release and the trigger guard is really tight..
[21:35:59] <furrywolf> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Bars2.jpg those machines aren't that large, and they produce a 5-6 karat diamond in 100 hours.
[21:36:21] <zeeshan> they also cost a lot :P
[21:36:35] <zeeshan> and you need a diamond to begin with
[21:36:44] <zeeshan> to grow an artificial one out of it
[21:36:47] <zeeshan> and its a hit and miss sometimes
[21:36:57] <zeeshan> its like 50/50 chance afterr that much time, that you will get a diamond
[21:36:57] <zeeshan> or not
[21:37:08] <zeeshan> (saw this in a documentary)
[21:37:08] <zeeshan> :)
[21:37:10] <MacGalempsy> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kondyor_Massif
[21:37:19] <furrywolf> they only cost that much because they're special one-off machines. china could turn them out in bulk.
[21:37:25] <MacGalempsy> this is what i was talking about
[21:37:25] <zeeshan> id eat that nugget
[21:37:28] <zeeshan> that looks delcisiou
[21:37:43] <MacGalempsy> you might break your teeth
[21:38:02] <zeeshan> that looks like
[21:38:06] <zeeshan> a comet hit it
[21:38:12] <zeeshan> or a meteor i mean
[21:38:16] <furrywolf> that design also uses minimal carbide, mostly using steel.
[21:39:12] <adam3999_> anyone here have much experience with the mesa boards that are ethernet attached? looks like you can get a 7i76E instead of the 5/6i25 and 7i76
[21:39:12] <MacGalempsy> just think of the big a$$ nuggets that would be at the head of that drainage
[21:39:14] <furrywolf> there is no reason for it to cost more than a similarly-sized machine tool.
[21:39:33] <adam3999_> naturally the 7i76E is only $10 cheaper than the parallel port package deal...
[21:42:43] <alex4nder> adam3999_: I went with the 7i76E for a new build, because I don't mind the lumps of new tech, and I have more boxes with ethernet than open pcie slots
[21:43:51] * furrywolf wants one, but they require money
[21:44:03] <furrywolf> (a 7i76e, not a diamond press)
[21:45:20] <MacGalempsy> linuxcnc diamond press?
[21:46:36] <adam3999_> diamond press that runs linuxcnc driven by a 7i76E
[21:46:38] <adam3999_> CHECKMATE
[21:46:39] <adam3999_> ha
[21:46:58] <MacGalempsy> ha!
[21:47:19] <adam3999_> is the linuxcnc support for rt ethernet devices mature?
[21:47:47] <adam3999_> i would imagine most everyone uses some type of parport setup instead
[21:50:08] <Crom_> inkscape taking forever.. got it to output a file.. toolsize is totally off though and scale is ALL wrong
[21:53:14] <MarkusBec> adam3999_: I started a projekt with a 7i92
[21:54:06] <MarkusBec> the docu is strate forward
[21:54:29] <MarkusBec> not
[21:58:16] <adam3999_> have you had good luck with it?
[22:29:10] <MarkusBec> adam3999_: it works
[22:29:25] <MarkusBec> but it need some work
[22:31:19] <adam3999_> gotcha
[22:42:47] <zeeshan> guess what my friends
[22:42:58] <zeeshan> backlash in the fixed block is eliminated!
[22:43:08] <zeeshan> im getting GOOD movement now on X for the lathe!!
[22:43:13] <zeeshan> no more of that random nonsense
[22:43:23] <zeeshan> and connor you were right, that dust boot gives false impression.
[22:43:37] <zeeshan> there was 12 thou freeplay without boot
[22:43:47] <zeeshan> i shimmed to 15 thou (3 thou preload)
[22:43:54] <zeeshan> and put back boot, and its good now
[22:47:05] <Connor> zeeshan: Nice. between the bearings ??
[22:47:10] <zeeshan> yes
[22:47:17] <zeeshan> i took the bearing completely apart
[22:47:19] <zeeshan> to se how it functions
[22:47:25] <zeeshan> the big gap is the front for sure.
[22:47:44] <Connor> your brave. :)
[22:47:55] <zeeshan> well its just like 1 thou press
[22:47:58] <zeeshan> over the ridge
[22:48:03] <Connor> They're not easy to take apart and put back together..
[22:48:04] <zeeshan> and the balls are in a plastic cage
[22:48:12] <Connor> At least for me.. I don't have a press.
[22:48:14] <zeeshan> ah
[22:48:35] <zeeshan> since i fucked up my z axis double nut
[22:48:39] <zeeshan> by dropping all the balls out
[22:48:46] <zeeshan> im gonna spend an hour now trying to load the balls lol
[22:49:30] <Connor> Tips: use grease to hold the balls.. try to load them all in without the screw in place using the grease to hold them.. then tread it on.
[22:49:59] <zeeshan> yea i use vaseline
[22:50:09] <zeeshan> the problem is im trying to do this on the machine
[22:50:09] <Connor> IF you have a screw with a FLAT end.. you can use it to load the balls in too. by loading each one and turning the screw to lock it in place.
[22:50:17] <zeeshan> without removing the Z axis ball screw
[22:50:22] <Connor> ICK
[22:50:27] <zeeshan> so im not vertical
[22:50:30] <zeeshan> making it a pain in the ass to load.
[22:50:42] <Connor> an Hour? I bet it will take you 4
[22:50:49] <zeeshan> haha prolly
[22:52:35] <zeeshan> f it
[22:52:43] <zeeshan> ill disassemble the entire screw
[22:52:54] <zeeshan> connor, you know the spacer between the double nut
[22:53:02] <Connor> yes.
[22:53:05] <zeeshan> is there anyway to adjust the preload ?
[22:53:38] <Connor> Only by grinding it..
[22:53:53] <zeeshan> wouldnt that remove preload?
[22:54:00] <tjtr33> plate it
[22:54:13] <Connor> You said adjust.. you didn't say which way. :)
[22:54:20] <zeeshan> hahaha
[22:55:46] <zeeshan> be back in 4 hours
[22:55:48] <zeeshan> :-]]
[22:55:52] <MacGalempsy> laters
[23:55:58] <Crom_> makiiiiiiiiiii in Algerian font in AL for a vape company
[23:56:16] <Crom_> s/iiiiiiii/stencil/
[23:58:00] <Crom_> taking font turning it into path and then editing the letters to be stencils
[23:58:25] <Crom_> I think itll be easier once we get a laser going to do it with the laser