#linuxcnc | Logs for 2015-02-21

[00:37:01] <zeeshan> anyone know
[00:37:08] <zeeshan> how you can access a pin that already exists in a python component
[00:37:08] <zeeshan> like
[00:37:12] <zeeshan> i wanna access hm2_5i25.0.7i77.0.0.input-14
[00:37:15] <zeeshan> and check its value
[01:01:32] <MacGalempsy> hi zeeshan
[01:02:27] <zeeshan> hi
[01:03:39] <zeeshan> noo
[01:03:41] <zeeshan> don't time out
[01:04:10] <MacGalempsy> lol
[01:04:30] <MacGalempsy> well, working on the relays is going to have to wait until the new ones get here
[01:04:42] <MacGalempsy> so its back to servo tuning.
[01:05:37] <Cromaglious> cnc get going?
[01:07:10] <MacGalempsy> well it has been moving, but after realizing the mesa cards use negative logic and spending all day trying to hack these positive relay modules, I just went ahead and ordered the ones PCW recommended this morning
[01:08:42] <MacGalempsy> there is a guy on ebay who had the automation direct units for 30 or best offer. so I offered 3 for 25 each
[01:09:07] <zeeshan> need to read the manual :D
[01:09:15] <MacGalempsy> you or me?
[01:09:20] <MacGalempsy> cuz I already know I do
[01:10:35] <MacGalempsy> Cromaglious: what are you working on?
[01:13:24] <zeeshan> you!
[01:13:28] <zeeshan> ill admit
[01:13:32] <zeeshan> even after reading the manual
[01:13:34] <zeeshan> i missed a few things :)
[01:13:39] <zeeshan> pcw is very helpful
[01:16:15] * zeeshan is trying to find a pin
[01:16:17] <zeeshan> that changes state
[01:16:20] <zeeshan> when the axis is moving
[01:20:15] <evil_ren> http://i.imgur.com/X2ULZQ5.png
[01:46:02] <Win7> hi
[01:46:17] <JesusAlos> hi
[01:50:28] <Cromaglious> http://mrsmosesmapcompany.com
[01:51:08] <Cromaglious> is what I'm working on... Gotta get the buttons working for paypal, make it auto select desktop or mobile
[01:51:30] <Cromaglious> I need to make it a bit wider and short to fit on a android/iphone screen
[01:51:36] <Cromaglious> shorter
[01:52:14] <Cromaglious> installing gimp on a winbloz box to to fix the shading problem
[01:53:39] <Cromaglious> on the 3040 I'm making a end crimper for boning for corsets, bodices, cinchers, etc...
[01:53:57] <evil_ren> i use gimp in windows
[01:54:10] <Cromaglious> well actually 2 one for 1/4" and one for 1/2" flexiable boning
[01:54:18] <evil_ren> loads way faster than adobe stuff
[01:54:33] <Cromaglious> inkscape rocks as well
[01:54:36] <evil_ren> paint.net is kinda weird
[01:54:38] <evil_ren> yeah
[01:54:43] <Cromaglious> when you have at least 2GB of memory
[01:55:14] <Cromaglious> speaking of memory I'
[01:55:19] <evil_ren> tried dia and yenc to do diagram stuff, mostly just use inkscape now
[01:55:35] <Cromaglious> ll brb I have to shutdown this machine and push in a memory stick so I'll have 4GB
[01:57:17] <zeeshan-mill> yea baby
[01:57:20] <zeeshan-mill> central lubricator working
[01:57:21] <zeeshan-mill> automatically!
[01:57:29] <SpeedEvil> Lubrication is important.
[01:57:36] <SpeedEvil> Without it, your tool can get worn.
[01:57:40] <zeeshan-mill> haha
[01:57:51] <zeeshan-mill> well it fixed the stiction issue
[01:57:57] <zeeshan-mill> and there is no more bearing noise
[01:57:59] <zeeshan-mill> everything seems happy
[01:58:03] <SpeedEvil> :)
[01:58:45] <zeeshan-mill> man i really get tripped out
[01:58:50] <zeeshan-mill> by messing with the ball screw
[01:58:52] <zeeshan-mill> trying to move it by hand
[01:58:55] <zeeshan-mill> and the servo fights back
[01:59:02] <zeeshan-mill> makes me want servos onthe lathe too
[01:59:06] <SpeedEvil> :)
[01:59:39] * SpeedEvil had a ridiculous idea yesterday.
[01:59:49] <zeeshan-mill> what is it
[02:00:25] <SpeedEvil> I have lots of tiny steppers. I wondered if two identical allthread rods + ordinary nuts could be used in parallel opposition to remove backlash.
[02:00:42] <SpeedEvil> (with lube) And increase torque
[02:00:53] <SpeedEvil> Not a good idea I suspect
[02:01:07] <zeeshan-mill> wouldnt one try to back drive the other?
[02:01:17] <SpeedEvil> yes.
[02:01:22] <zeeshan-mill> thats an interesting idea
[02:01:31] <SpeedEvil> They'd need run at the same time, in opposition
[02:01:43] <zeeshan-mill> you'd need to find the perfect balance
[02:01:52] <SpeedEvil> A force sensor to measure the 'pinch' came to mind too
[02:02:04] <zeeshan-mill> you wouldnt even ned to do that
[02:02:09] <zeeshan-mill> you could measure the current at the motor
[02:02:17] <SpeedEvil> Perhaps, yes.
[02:02:42] <zeeshan-mill> build it!
[02:02:44] <SpeedEvil> This is probably one of those ideas that ends up at just buying a proper thread being lots easier :)
[02:02:59] <zeeshan-mill> well i think if you want a cheap solution
[02:03:05] <SpeedEvil> yeah
[02:03:06] <zeeshan-mill> with no fancy ball screws, and small steppers
[02:03:10] <zeeshan-mill> like for i dunno a 3d printer
[02:03:14] <zeeshan-mill> it makes a lot of sense
[02:07:46] <SpeedEvil> I mean - yes - I want a machine that can take 2" cuts in titanium with white-hot chips flying off - but something considerably less good could be handy too :)
[02:19:53] <Deejay> moin
[02:24:02] <evil_ren> hi
[02:37:59] <MacGalempsy> hi Deejay
[02:42:06] <Cromaglious> ok gimp is raster images and inkscape is vector... export png from inkscape and export jpg from gmp
[02:43:11] <Jymmm> PNG is raster/gimp.
[02:43:36] <Cromaglious> ahhhh ok, the MB chip set is stealing 768kb for video memory
[02:44:07] <Cromaglious> which was why it was so freaking slow with 1 GB
[02:44:58] <Cromaglious> Jymm, I want to do pages in vector inkscape. I export png to gimp, export from gimp as jpg
[02:45:20] <Cromaglious> or just have gimp load svg
[02:45:40] <MacGalempsy> < I dont wory about video memory, got duel quadro fx 4800 >)
[02:47:34] <Cromaglious> hmmm wooo this machine has a TV board in it
[02:48:18] <Cromaglious> hmmm 02:01.0 Multimedia video controller: Internext Compression Inc iTVC16 (CX23416) MPEG-2 Encoder (rev 01)
[02:48:48] <Cromaglious> gonna have to see what I can tune with it
[02:49:27] <Cromaglious> and get dual head going on this Radeon 9600
[02:49:49] <Cromaglious> bbiab ~'
[02:57:24] <MacGalempsy> zeeshan-mill: how is the project coming along?
[03:30:45] <zeeshan> MacGalempsy: its comin :p
[03:31:08] <zeeshan> once i figure out the hydraulic drawbar
[03:31:19] <zeeshan> i can be more productive with it
[03:35:49] * SpeedEvil wonders if you can make coherers out of ham.
[03:36:03] * zeeshan is craving mcdonalds
[03:36:07] <zeeshan> :/
[03:36:18] <zeeshan> its so bad..
[03:36:21] <zeeshan> but its so good!
[03:39:17] <MacGalempsy> I had to order some new relays to get the accessories working, so now its back to PID tuning
[03:39:33] <MacGalempsy> but want to warm up the ways first, so just sending it back and forth on the x for a bit
[03:41:17] <Cromaglious> what are you using for lube on the ways?
[03:43:03] <Cromaglious> over halfway done changing non-text text to text. Gotta love making webpages from a PDF done by a 4th party
[03:43:57] <Cromaglious> no original art work, no embedded text it's all curves and the pictures are low, low, low res
[03:44:25] <Cromaglious> or aka 4 pixel next to each other
[03:46:02] <Cromaglious> nite nite
[03:46:07] <MacGalempsy> oh laters
[03:46:15] <MacGalempsy> just got the old lube
[03:46:19] <MacGalempsy> still in there
[03:49:19] <Cromaglious> ahhh
[03:52:23] <Cromaglious> I've been using a high parafin oil that I've had for ever... it's an old non-detergent oil for hit and miss engines with babbit bearings. I'm getting to the dregs so I'm going to have to buy a can of way oil which I think is basically the same thing
[03:52:48] <MacGalempsy> Cromaglious: when you are pid tuning, what velocity do you run at?
[03:53:00] <MacGalempsy> like 100 ipm?
[03:53:01] <Cromaglious> I'm stepper here
[03:53:38] <Cromaglious> I can hit about 180 then I start loosing steps
[03:54:43] <zeeshan> MacGalempsy: are you using servos for your 3d printer
[03:54:56] <Cromaglious> 3ips or 180ipm is my limit on x and 150ipm on Y (higher mass) and close to 220 on Z if I had enough travel
[03:55:22] <Cromaglious> Z usually sits at 1.5ips or 90ipm
[03:55:31] <MacGalempsy> the 3d printer has steppers, but I am tuning on the mill
[03:55:35] <MacGalempsy> it has servos
[03:55:41] <MacGalempsy> so I set them at 200ipm
[03:55:48] <zeeshan> ah
[03:56:00] <MacGalempsy> you running servos/
[03:56:02] <zeeshan> what mill?
[03:56:03] <MacGalempsy> ?
[03:56:05] <zeeshan> yea on the mill
[03:56:08] <MacGalempsy> the benchman xt
[03:56:15] <zeeshan> oh yea
[03:56:17] <MacGalempsy> the big green and tan box
[03:56:22] <zeeshan> i keep thinking of you as the 3d printer guy
[03:56:25] <zeeshan> cause you have so many
[03:56:26] <zeeshan> lol
[03:56:38] <MacGalempsy> I only have 1 working and one project :P
[03:57:01] <MacGalempsy> but whatever
[03:57:19] <Cromaglious> I have 3 repraps to get going and 2 laser cutters after I get the 3040 clued in
[03:57:36] <Cromaglious> and I broke my first bit today!
[03:57:56] <MacGalempsy> what should I set the max feed at?
[03:58:03] <zeeshan> 10000
[03:58:03] <zeeshan> :D
[03:58:06] <SpeedEvil> Cromaglious: On the laser?
[03:58:15] <Cromaglious> .100 at 3ipm into AL with a 230w spindle :( 3040
[03:58:40] <MacGalempsy> the online spec sheet says max fo rthis model was 200ipm
[03:58:44] <Cromaglious> I haven't even looked at them
[03:58:45] <MacGalempsy> so i will use that
[03:59:06] <Cromaglious> mac was that specing steppers or servos?
[04:01:34] <MacGalempsy> servos
[04:01:48] <MacGalempsy> here is the online spec sheet http://www.machinetoolsonline.com/doc/benchman-xt-industrial-cnc-machining-centers-0001
[04:03:56] <Cromaglious> problem with steppers is to get a decent space per step you have to microstep or gear down so a step is under 0.00005" step so your limit to speed is around 15Khz step speed. 15K x .0005 or 7.5 inch per sec max real world is more like 6khz per stepper or 3ips or 180ipm
[04:04:51] <archivist> and then those microsteps dont measure what you think they will
[04:05:17] <zeeshan> archivist the stepper hater!
[04:05:30] <archivist> realist
[04:05:34] <zeeshan> :)
[04:05:53] <archivist> remember I only use steppers so far
[04:05:56] <zeeshan> i guses the only reliable way to increase resolution
[04:06:02] <zeeshan> is by gearing
[04:07:33] <Cromaglious> looks like your controller is only good for 170khz per channel more probably 340khz for the index pules off the positioner
[04:08:20] <archivist> so I measured one axis for a giggle http://www.archivist.info/cnc/screw_error/
[04:08:28] <Cromaglious> zeeshan, the more you gear down the slower your ipm gets
[04:08:43] <zeeshan> yep
[04:08:44] <archivist> no free lunch
[04:09:23] <archivist> you better not run anywhere near the steppers max speed under load either
[04:09:23] <zeeshan> i guess direct drive + fine pitch lead screw
[04:09:24] <zeeshan> :-)
[04:10:36] <Cromaglious> how much is that mitutoyo digital clock?
[04:11:46] <Cromaglious> ouch $700 on ebay
[04:11:59] <archivist> I got lucky, got it faulty when doing an ebay collection for something else £5 needed a new 5v regulator chip
[04:12:40] <archivist> seller had plugged in a the wrong wall wart
[04:12:41] <Cromaglious> wooo hooo
[04:13:02] <Cromaglious> what that a lm05?
[04:13:14] <Cromaglious> s/what/was/
[04:13:49] <archivist> why I like collecting stuff rather than the seller post, some try to sell the other "junk" that they have
[04:14:48] <archivist> surface mount 78L05 or something like that
[04:15:03] <Cromaglious> hmmm just thinking about getting a harbor freight dial indicator and hacking it to use a floppy drive photo interruptor for a touch probe
[04:17:00] <Cromaglious> have to rig a latch circuit with a 1/3 second timeout
[04:17:14] <archivist> sometimes the contact pressure matters, which is why I have no probing so far
[04:18:26] <Cromaglious> yep... soft squishy things are best laser probed if opaque
[04:19:47] <Cromaglious> a web cam and a laser pointer and another computer as the video processor would make really fast and resonably accurate scanswould make a killer
[04:20:34] <archivist> one of my more flexible setups, needed a front bearing and very fine cuts http://gears.archivist.info/gears/p1010084_500.jpg
[04:21:49] <Cromaglious> nice clock gear there
[04:22:35] <Cromaglious> what kind of collet 5c?
[04:23:15] <archivist> morse collet was fixing the dividing of the teeth of this clock http://www.collection.archivist.info/searchv13.php?searchstr=merlin
[04:25:54] <Cromaglious> that took you over a year to finish?
[04:26:06] <Cromaglious> nicely done!
[04:27:19] <archivist> took months and the customer never paid us anything so never finished
[04:33:56] <Cromaglious> you repo it?
[04:34:13] <archivist> repo ?
[04:34:45] <archivist> it never was sent back to the customer, ex boss probably still has it
[04:34:51] <Cromaglious> mechanics lien or possessed
[04:35:43] <archivist> I wanted to "gain" it but boss paid my wages :)
[04:36:14] <Cromaglious> hehe it is a beautiful clock
[04:36:48] <archivist> was badly made by someone though
[04:37:34] <Cromaglious> I need to start collecting brass and bronze
[04:39:39] <MacGalempsy> zeeshan: what do you think an acceptable f-error is?
[04:40:22] <zeeshan> 0.001" :P
[04:40:25] <archivist> that depends on your needs of the machine
[04:40:32] <zeeshan> mine is set to 0.010" rapid
[04:40:39] <zeeshan> cause its not like youre gonna be machining something while youre rapiding
[04:40:55] <zeeshan> and 0.001 for feed-error
[04:41:01] <MacGalempsy> at 200 ipm I am at 0.002 with just P
[04:41:45] <zeeshan> http://i.imgur.com/YGjs38b.png
[04:41:49] <zeeshan> this is mine
[04:42:01] <zeeshan> it needs more tuning
[04:42:05] <MacGalempsy> noice!
[04:42:21] <MacGalempsy> how fast?
[04:42:21] <zeeshan> im hoping pcw can tell me what i can do
[04:42:40] <zeeshan> i think that was at full speed
[04:42:44] <zeeshan> 200 ipm
[04:42:48] <zeeshan> i forget
[04:42:56] <zeeshan> on my machine, ferror is worse at slower speeds
[04:43:00] <zeeshan> so i try to tune for the slower speed
[04:44:41] <MacGalempsy> how far did you mive that?
[04:45:02] <zeeshan> i do my samples long enough
[04:45:10] <zeeshan> to fit accel and decel in the hallscope
[04:45:41] <zeeshan> prolly works out to 5-6 inches
[04:54:19] <Cromaglious> hmmm http://www.ebay.com/itm/Digital-Electronic-Depth-Gauge-Dial-Indicator-SAE-Metric-Fractions-2-batteries-/130876424956?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item1e78d7c2fc looks to be hackable
[04:54:52] <Cromaglious> almost looks like the guts to a digital caliper
[06:33:34] <jthornton> on again, off again... satellite make up your mind
[06:56:37] <archivist> early "cnc" http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/1958-Press-Photo-Fairey-Ferranti-contour-milling-machine-/271650173120
[07:01:35] <malcom2073> Hha $10 postage for a photo
[07:01:38] <malcom2073> Pretty cool though (the machine)
[08:45:43] <_methods> jthornton: chinese new year put your printer plans on hold lol
[08:46:32] <_methods> nothing like the chinese new year to put the brakes on a project hahaha
[09:13:04] <JT-Shop> dang rain pooped out and just turned the sleet to ice
[09:19:08] <pcw_home> its "California cold" here 48F
[09:22:46] <JT-Shop> it's up to 33F here today... a lot better than -8F
[09:23:50] <robinsz> so, is there a faster loaction to download the latest ISO from? this is currently looking like a 3hr download ...
[09:25:56] <_methods> 68 here heheh
[09:26:01] <_methods> supposed to be 72 tomorrow
[09:26:15] <miss0r|shop> alright. ballscrews are ordered - new brackets are being milled as we speak. This arboga u2508 will be a sweet linux cnc monster :)
[09:27:10] <_methods> thats an interesting machine
[09:27:24] <miss0r|shop> I even have a little 10" touchscreen with a stylus laying around I am planning to mount on it
[09:28:02] <miss0r|shop> _methods: yeah, not exactly cnc material, but; I think I will get there with some modding
[09:28:28] <_methods> looks like a radial arm drill press
[09:28:55] <miss0r|shop> http://www.lathes.co.uk/arboga/
[09:29:07] <miss0r|shop> yes it does. but so far it has done manual milling with excellence
[09:35:08] <JesusAlos> by
[09:39:41] <_methods> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oUXj5bZcNaY
[09:39:50] <_methods> japanese insanity
[09:40:53] <miss0r|shop> isn't that called a 'double negative' ?
[09:44:08] <FinboySlick> I'd say it's a tautology in fact.
[10:16:52] <jthornton> _methods, yep
[10:29:33] <Tom_itx> going down a 6-7 mi stretch of straight road this AM with signs saying 'road may be icy in spots' i passed 6 accidents.
[10:29:54] <Tom_itx> it's a wonder we survive at all as a race
[10:30:48] <archivist> some never practice snow/ice driving
[10:30:54] <FinboySlick> Are you in an area where people aren't used to icy conditions?
[10:31:07] <Tom_itx> no, we should be quite used to it
[10:31:32] <miss0r|shop> eeek. milling job running, and now I see surges in the light. I hope I won't get a power outage
[10:31:34] <archivist> for each new car I own, on bad weather I go for a drive for fun and learning
[10:32:12] <CaptHindsight> happens here all the time when it starts to snow
[10:33:35] <FinboySlick> miss0r|shop: Makes me wonder if running a mill on a UPS might be worth the expense.
[10:37:20] <cradek> Tom_itx: who says we are surviving as a race?
[10:37:35] <furrywolf> wtf? trying to pay for an ebay item, paypal says my transaction couldn't be completed... but I should check my account in 30 minutes for a confirmation.
[10:38:30] <furrywolf> what always gets people here is hail.
[10:38:55] <furrywolf> miss0r: I've ran one off a UPS, but it was a sherline mini-mill. a ups for a full-size machine would be quite expensive.
[10:39:15] <furrywolf> I've ran mine here off my solar system, which kinda counts as a ups. :)
[10:50:12] <CaptHindsight> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4QgeQAiSmM8 Whiteboard Clock
[10:54:45] <furrywolf> can we please painfully injure people who post yard sale ads with no or incomplete addresses?
[10:55:16] <furrywolf> for example, giving an address on a road that exists in at least four cities within the area...
[10:56:00] <CaptHindsight> that is pretty commonly done
[10:56:14] <CaptHindsight> people expect others to already know what they mean
[10:56:28] <furrywolf> CaptHindsight: clever, but I'm not sure it's useful. lol
[11:04:14] <furrywolf> they did too much work on fonts, positioning, etc. should have just used linuxcnc and some custom kinematics. :P
[11:04:51] <furrywolf> "The font has to be rendered separately for each position it will be drawn at." is just wrong.
[11:06:52] <CaptHindsight> how about a Java app that renders an animated robot drawing the time on the display of your smartphone?
[11:07:23] <furrywolf> that seems even more useless.
[11:23:02] <robinsz> Arboga?
[11:23:12] <robinsz> I had an arboga gear head drill once
[11:23:16] <robinsz> lovely little machine
[11:23:44] <marmite_> arboga is badass machines
[11:33:43] <miss0r|shop> I don't think running it off an UPS is worth the expense. I haven't had so much as a flickering in the light for the past 2 years, since now, that is
[11:34:50] <miss0r|shop> marmite_: The only problem with CNC running this arboga machine is that the z-axis is a round colum. I can probally expect 'some' backlash there
[11:35:47] <miss0r|shop> dinner time. i'll be back later
[11:37:11] <marmite_> miss0r|shop: ah yeah indeed,
[13:35:07] <CaptHindsight> http://www.khaleejtimes.com/images/damagetorch_210215.jpg torch tower damage, looks like installing a flammable curtain wall helps to spread fire up the face of the building
[13:37:01] <CaptHindsight> http://www.slate.com/blogs/the_slatest/2015/02/21/video_fire_engulfs_one_of_the_world_s_tallest_residential_towers_in_dubai.html
[13:46:07] <FinboySlick> Hope it wasn't someone cooking bacon.
[13:46:07] <zeeshan> pcw_home: where are you!
[13:46:08] <zeeshan> :]
[13:46:32] <cnc> mee
[13:49:10] <PetefromTn_> Damn that building did some cookin' didn't it.
[13:52:11] <zeeshan> yessir
[13:52:12] <zeeshan> :P
[13:52:47] <cnc> ?
[13:53:30] <zeeshan> axis.N.motor-pos-fb
[13:53:40] <zeeshan> this can be positive or negatie yes ?
[13:56:09] <pcw_home> Yes
[13:56:31] <zeeshan> pcw!!!
[13:56:37] <zeeshan> i need your tuning expertise
[13:56:52] <zeeshan> after running centralized lubrication
[13:56:54] <zeeshan> my stiction problems are gone
[13:56:59] <zeeshan> but i have some funky stuff going on during accel and decel
[13:57:13] <zeeshan> http://i.imgur.com/YGjs38b.png
[13:57:36] <zeeshan> that is with 0 FF2
[13:57:48] <zeeshan> i tried to played with FF2, but it seems like if i put 0.003 it gets worse
[13:57:53] <zeeshan> seems to get better with 0.006
[13:57:56] <zeeshan> but still noticeable
[13:58:02] <zeeshan> if i give 0.01 it gets worse again
[13:58:34] <zeeshan> the max error it hits now is like 0.0005"
[14:01:57] <pcw_home> Its unlikely that errors vs FF2 would get worse from 0 to .003 if .003 is not enough
[14:02:52] <zeeshan> well i didnt try lower amounts
[14:02:56] <zeeshan> like 0.001
[14:03:12] <zeeshan> i was using jt's guide and starting around the ballpark of 0.005%
[14:03:17] <zeeshan> of P
[14:03:21] <pcw_home> (note ignore the stiction error spike at the beginning when tuning FF2 ans thats really variable)
[14:03:33] <pcw_home> as that's
[14:03:33] <zeeshan> yes
[14:03:38] <zeeshan> that is sometimes note even there
[14:03:49] <zeeshan> im trying to focus on the part
[14:03:54] <zeeshan> where you can see the wave inverts
[14:03:58] <zeeshan> due to settling time
[14:04:35] <zeeshan> if i use D
[14:04:37] <zeeshan> will it help?
[14:04:51] <zeeshan> or does FF2 have the same effect as D?
[14:06:03] <pcw_home> in your plot FF2 sets the level of the plateau during accel and decel (the ramp porttion of your analog out plot)
[14:06:33] <pcw_home> D should not be needed if your drives velocity loops are tuned
[14:06:55] <zeeshan> ah
[14:07:39] <zeeshan> i dont have much to tune on the velocity drives
[14:07:46] <zeeshan> other than drift and gain
[14:07:51] <zeeshan> proportional gain
[14:07:58] <zeeshan> i dont see anything for D control there
[14:08:32] <pcw_home> proportional gain on the drive is ~D on the position loop
[14:09:18] <zeeshan> oh
[14:09:30] <zeeshan> see i hit oscillation w/ the drives
[14:09:35] <zeeshan> then reduced it 2 full turns.
[14:09:43] <zeeshan> as a safety buffer
[14:09:52] <pcw_home> (since the drives only deal with velocity)
[14:10:04] <zeeshan> maybe i should do 1 turn
[14:10:06] <zeeshan> not 2 full turns
[14:10:33] <pcw_home> Yeah you may have reduced the gain too much
[14:13:17] <zeeshan> im gonan finish the fine details of this centralized lubricator python component
[14:13:20] <zeeshan> and tune these babies
[14:13:39] <pcw_home> actually looks pretty useable now
[14:13:46] <zeeshan> yes
[14:14:13] <zeeshan> all axis are pretty much that same graph now
[14:14:20] <zeeshan> the Z is a little worse
[14:14:24] <zeeshan> it peaks at 0.0008
[14:15:29] <pcw_home> Z is pretty underpowered witn a 25A peak drive
[14:15:42] <zeeshan> yea its 1/4 the peak current
[14:15:43] <zeeshan> it needs
[14:16:01] <zeeshan> maybe in future i can afford the b60a80ac
[14:16:07] <zeeshan> or whatever that drive was
[14:16:18] <pcw_home> Theres a 100A drive
[14:16:58] <zeeshan> i did some drilling in steel yesterday
[14:17:02] <zeeshan> it had no problems
[14:17:07] <zeeshan> i think im just loosing speed cause of it
[14:17:12] <zeeshan> i have X axis set to 100 ipm max.
[14:18:02] <pcw_home> the X and Y are 40A peak motors?
[14:20:07] <zeeshan> 51A peak for x and y
[14:20:15] <zeeshan> and 110A for Z
[14:20:37] <zeeshan> looks like 6.4A continuous for x and y, and 13.8 for Z
[14:22:38] <pcw_home> You probably are not doing anything yet that pushed them to their (25A) limits
[14:22:45] <pcw_home> pushes
[14:23:12] <zeeshan> i also have them set for slow accel
[14:23:13] <zeeshan> lol
[14:23:20] <zeeshan> 7in/s^2
[14:23:28] <pcw_home> (you would get an immediate FE if the drives current limit)
[14:23:53] <zeeshan> yes
[14:28:53] <miss0r|shop> I am looking for a good place to buy some sfu2605 ballnuts & ballscrews, preferably within the european union. also I would like low prices and a good delevery time :) any suggestions?
[14:30:51] <jdh> skip the EU part and try LMB2008?
[14:31:21] <miss0r|shop> what is that?
[14:31:38] <miss0r|shop> (google says some sporting event)
[14:34:03] <MrSunshine> https://scontent-ams.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xap1/v/t1.0-9/10947247_10153093798453648_8042814306922151333_n.jpg?oh=052b4676239f70607bfee51b02a111a2&oe=554F7151 yeey ... shop upgrade! =)
[14:34:25] <miss0r|shop> nice
[14:34:38] <MrSunshine> finaly no more stacks of sheets against walls :P
[14:35:01] <LeelooMinai> I thought it's a cage for wife or something like this:)
[14:35:13] <MrSunshine> haha
[14:35:18] <MrSunshine> could work
[14:35:19] <miss0r|shop> i've been thinking of doing something simular, never got around to it thou. looks real nice
[14:35:41] <miss0r|shop> the cage for the wife part, that is ;)
[14:35:43] <MrSunshine> 4 degree slant on the pockets so sheets will stand nicley =)
[14:35:45] <MrSunshine> haha
[14:36:20] <miss0r|shop> do you guys know the feeling, when you have ordered something online, and just finds out theres something like 2 months delevery time?
[14:36:48] <miss0r|shop> I WANT MY DAMN BALLSCREWS NOW X^X (cartman voice)
[14:36:50] <MrSunshine> every time i order something from china
[14:37:18] <miss0r|shop> usualy I look at this before buying, but I think the price blinded me...
[14:37:19] <MrSunshine> specialy in like january/feb ... as theres like a month of something over there where no one works :P
[14:37:51] <miss0r|shop> ohhh right... chinese newyear
[14:38:49] <miss0r|shop> apparently it is the year of the sheep... I wonder how I trust them to make my precision ballscrews :S
[14:39:28] <miss0r|shop> meh. I need to find some other supplyer that won't rob me of every cent.
[15:26:36] <robinsz> right, I know I asked this before ... but I also know I forgot what the answer was
[15:27:11] <robinsz> how to implement a "pause" suitable for use with a router
[15:28:20] <Tom_itx> what sort of pause?
[15:28:59] <Tom_itx> M0 M1 will pause
[15:29:01] <robinsz> press a button to temp stop the program while you mess about with the wood, eg move or tighten a clamp
[15:29:10] <Tom_itx> put it in your gcode
[15:29:21] <robinsz> not possible
[15:29:39] <zeeshan> press the pause button?
[15:29:45] <Tom_itx> i've got a pause/resume on my pendant
[15:29:50] <zeeshan> or feedoveride 0
[15:29:55] <zeeshan> and spindle override 0
[15:29:56] <zeeshan> :)
[15:29:58] <robinsz> its a router
[15:30:13] <robinsz> so you cannot stop it with tool in contact with the job,
[15:30:19] <robinsz> well, unless you want a fire
[15:30:25] <robinsz> so it has to retract Z
[15:30:30] <robinsz> stop spindle
[15:30:51] <robinsz> when you restart, has to spin up spindle, then lower to previous position, resume
[15:30:53] <Tom_itx> that's a feature that has been on our wish list for some time now
[15:31:03] <robinsz> ALL commercial routers do this .. like ... ALL
[15:31:18] <Tom_itx> i think it may partially be implemented in 2.7 or possibly 2.6
[15:31:25] <zeeshan> write a code
[15:31:25] <zeeshan> :p
[15:31:45] <zeeshan> see what the pause command calls
[15:31:53] <zeeshan> and modify it :P
[15:32:01] <robinsz> I really was hoping to use this on a router ... im surprised no one has done it before to be honest
[15:32:19] <Tom_itx> someone probably has
[15:32:25] <Tom_itx> i'm not aware of it
[15:32:36] <robinsz> maybe I'll ask on list
[15:32:53] <zeeshan> http://linuxcnc.org/docs/html/remap/structure.html
[15:32:53] <robinsz> what would be REALLY nice would be :
[15:33:00] <zeeshan> 6.2. Adjusting the behavior of M0, M1, M60
[15:33:08] <zeeshan> A use case for remapping M0/M1 would be to customize the behavior of the existing code. For instance, it could be desirable to turn off the spindle, mist and flood during an M0 or M1 program pause, and turn these settings back on when the program is resumed. For a complete example doing just that, see configs/sim/axis/remap/extend-builtins/, which adapts M1 as laid out above.
[15:33:09] <robinsz> press button
[15:33:24] <robinsz> zeeshan, not using M0 or M1 so irrelevant
[15:33:42] <zeeshan> um
[15:33:46] <zeeshan> i'm thinking the pause button calls a m0.
[15:33:53] <robinsz> im thinking it doesnt
[15:34:06] <robinsz> M0 is in the interpreter
[15:34:21] <robinsz> which will come out an an nml call presumably
[15:35:13] <robinsz> similarly the pause button will be mapped to an nml call I would imagine
[15:36:09] <robinsz> I guess I better ask on-list
[15:36:29] <robinsz> what would be super cool is:
[15:36:32] <robinsz> press button
[15:36:39] <robinsz> store current X, Y , Z
[15:36:47] <robinsz> raise Z
[15:36:50] <robinsz> stop spindle
[15:36:57] <robinsz> allow jog
[15:37:02] <robinsz> when resume
[15:37:08] <robinsz> go back to X, Y
[15:37:15] <robinsz> start spindle
[15:37:23] <robinsz> lower Z
[15:37:25] <robinsz> resume
[15:37:52] <robinsz> but just a standard router pause would be fine for now
[15:38:09] <zeeshan> my only thing with that is
[15:38:12] <zeeshan> when you jog around
[15:38:15] <Tom_itx> robinsz ask in the dev channel, i think somone has been working on that but i forget which branch it's in
[15:38:31] <robinsz> oh, theres a dev channel?
[15:38:32] <zeeshan> i feel like you need to use the same path
[15:38:34] <zeeshan> to stop a crash
[15:38:39] <Tom_itx> like i said, it's a feature that has been requested multiple times
[15:38:48] <robinsz> yep, its standard on routers
[15:38:51] <Tom_itx> linuxcnc-devel
[15:39:10] <Tom_itx> there are examples if you're willing to build the source
[15:39:13] <robinsz> even my '95 Vytek ... that worked fine until the great board failure of 2015
[15:39:31] <zeeshan> contribute to the source code then! :P
[15:40:29] <robinsz> zeeshan, I think you'll find I did
[15:41:17] <zeeshan> yoiu're just coming across as bitching about a feature not existing in an open source program
[15:41:25] <zeeshan> that is all.
[15:42:55] <robinsz> zeeshan, and you are coming across as a newb who is quick to throw out wildly incorrect suggestions and tell people what to do, that is all
[15:43:43] <zeeshan> glad i'm of no help
[15:44:05] <zeeshan> i'd forward you to the component that does exactly what you need
[15:44:11] <zeeshan> but i'll let someone else do that now :)
[15:44:40] <robinsz> Tom_itx, I have to say, it's come on a long way, the new live images are so much easier than it used to be
[15:45:00] <Tom_itx> robinsz looks like those features may be in 2.7
[15:45:08] <robinsz> ah kewl,
[15:45:14] <zeeshan> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KY6hx7WBkO8
[15:45:18] <zeeshan> maybe you can figure it out yourself now
[15:45:24] <robinsz> I'll pull it in and have a go.
[15:45:28] <Tom_itx> <seb_kuzminsky> it's in 2.7
[15:45:28] <Tom_itx> <seb_kuzminsky> in the hal component called 'moveoff'
[15:45:42] <robinsz> right, perfect.
[15:46:26] <robinsz> Chris has done a great job on the distro, so easy :)
[15:47:19] <robinsz> if you think back to how it was back in '98 or so ... where it was a multi-day battle to get it to run
[15:47:21] <zeeshan> i'm wondering if i should add a axis movement to the lubricator component
[15:47:41] <zeeshan> i'm wondering what amount of movement should trigger a lube event
[15:48:20] <zeeshan> http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/uploads/lube.py
[15:48:25] <zeeshan> so far i kept it simple
[15:51:10] <robinsz> looks about right ... thats pretty much how it works on most things
[15:51:28] <robinsz> Mr Pugh!
[15:51:52] <zeeshan> some of the more modern ones
[15:51:55] <zeeshan> track axis movement
[15:52:03] <robinsz> my Amada soes that
[15:52:11] <robinsz> thats 1981
[15:52:58] <zeeshan> thats fairly modern
[15:53:23] <zeeshan> centralized lubrication hasn't changed much :)
[15:56:01] <robinsz> that reminds me, must find a CAM solution for that amada, getting SERIOUSLY bored of coding it by hand
[15:57:02] <_methods> turret punch?
[15:57:04] <_methods> good luck
[15:58:06] <_methods> if you find something let me know too lol
[16:00:02] <cnc> hallo sind hier auch deutschsprachige unterwegs
[16:02:24] <robinsz> _methods, I know of a couple ... neither free :(
[16:02:38] <robinsz> theres a simulator, $49
[16:02:39] <_methods> yeah not much in the free dept there
[16:02:56] <robinsz> but ... it is not great on detecting axis overuns on repositioning
[16:03:06] <robinsz> which is what I really screw myself on
[16:03:39] <MacGalempsy> morning
[16:03:58] <robinsz> and I found another big comercial package thing, that does great, but only ships with a demo post processor
[16:04:30] <robinsz> but ... I think the demo output is *close enough* that it could be tweaked to be useable
[16:04:32] <_methods> ah the ole post processor post purchase wallet empty trick
[16:04:39] <robinsz> yes
[16:05:49] <robinsz> my amada has some features that make it not a good plan to buy a modern, commercial package
[16:06:03] <robinsz> as they tend to produce large programs
[16:06:08] <robinsz> without subroutines
[16:06:22] <robinsz> go on ask me how much memory it has
[16:06:28] <_methods> yeah i used to run an old strippit with the hecc80 controller
[16:06:32] <_methods> you had to keep it real small
[16:06:33] <_methods> lol
[16:06:36] <_methods> bubble memory
[16:06:41] <robinsz> oh ...
[16:06:50] <robinsz> bubble is usually bog
[16:06:53] <robinsz> *big
[16:06:57] <_methods> still had the tape reader on it
[16:07:09] <robinsz> yeah, the Amada has the slot for it
[16:07:12] <_methods> yeah the bubble memory was an upgrade
[16:07:16] <robinsz> i got 8k total
[16:08:39] <robinsz> but its better than the Westinghouse "producer" I had before ...
[16:09:06] <robinsz> I cant even remember what the punch was on that ...
[16:10:22] <_methods> i hope you don't have a turret punch at your house lol
[16:10:34] <robinsz> haha, but .. the web remembers for me! http://alt.machines.cnc.narkive.com/83dXhGuG/westinghouse-producer-2-cnc-help
[16:12:08] <robinsz> nah, its at the unit. shakes the floor though
[16:12:15] <_methods> i bet
[16:12:16] <robinsz> getting some tico for it
[16:12:40] <_methods> i'm pretty sure my wife would divorce me if i drug a punch home lol
[16:12:51] <robinsz> the last place I had it, the neighbour decided to complin
[16:13:00] <zeeshan> https://www.flickr.com/photos/128539016@N05/16411520752/
[16:13:03] <zeeshan> anyone take one of these apart?
[16:13:09] <robinsz> not "hey, dude, I know you have to work, but can we arrange some times .."
[16:13:11] <robinsz> no
[16:13:29] <robinsz> a "what a f**** noise, turn that off" type complaint
[16:13:58] <robinsz> it was only pushing a 5mm sq through 2mm ally sheet
[16:14:40] ChanServ changed topic of #linuxcnc to: LinuxCNC is a linux-based open-source CNC control. | Latest release: 2.6.7 | http://www.linuxcnc.org
[16:14:43] <robinsz> so we stuck a sheet of 4mm steel in, let it loose with a 70x5 slitting tool for an hour, just stood at the door and smiled
[16:15:29] <_methods> heheh
[16:16:27] <robinsz> I have some pictures from when I moved stuff around last week
[16:29:04] <zeeshan> http://i.imgur.com/0dJfWd1.jpg
[16:29:06] <zeeshan> this is a bit confusing
[16:29:52] <zeeshan> it looks like the left collar
[16:30:01] <zeeshan> tightens the belleville stack
[16:30:32] <zeeshan> so i gotta loosen it to relieve spring pressure
[16:34:59] <andypugh> robinsz: Oh! Hi! (I was actually watching TV)
[17:05:30] <Deejay> gn8
[17:46:11] <bobo__> zeeshan : what left collar ? ? -----to me it looks as if right hand cap/cover is removed first ---then collar removed
[17:49:18] <bobo__> zeeshan i was looking at before and after lub pump results , my what a difference ! you have been busy ---looking good
[17:53:00] <robinsz> Hah, mr pugh, I was away polishing rudders :)
[17:55:12] <andypugh> Is that one of them euphoniums?
[18:02:20] <_methods> hahahha
[18:04:36] <zeeshan> bobo__: yesir
[18:04:36] <zeeshan> :D
[18:05:03] <zeeshan> i just had a discussion with my buddy whos doing the digital control systems lab 2 in under grad
[18:05:07] <zeeshan> i remember this lab
[18:05:16] <zeeshan> is there anyway you can do a white noise analysis through linuxcnc
[18:05:31] <zeeshan> to figure out where the resonant frequencies are for a servo motor system
[18:05:35] <zeeshan> and then avoid operating at those frequencies ?
[18:05:48] <pcw_home> Sure
[18:05:49] <zeeshan> by doing a jump
[18:06:40] <pcw_home> you can also do a swept frequency analysis
[18:07:06] <zeeshan> sinesweep.comp ?
[18:07:54] <zeeshan> im assuming you'd want to do this coupled
[18:08:03] <zeeshan> since the resonant frequencies will change
[18:08:13] <pcw_home> Yes
[18:08:44] <zeeshan> correct me if im wrong
[18:08:54] <zeeshan> but after i run sinesweep.comp or whitenoise.comp
[18:09:00] <zeeshan> i need to watch f-error ?
[18:09:15] <zeeshan> or hm2.xxxxx.velocity?
[18:09:25] <zeeshan> like would i be doing this for the position loop
[18:09:27] <zeeshan> or velocity loop
[18:09:32] <pcw_home> a Bode plot would be nice
[18:09:36] <zeeshan> yes
[18:10:16] <zeeshan> lemme post a pic of the lab
[18:10:49] <zeeshan> http://i.imgur.com/9IqVNCa.jpg
[18:11:32] <zeeshan> how would i get the bode plot in linuxcnc?
[18:11:40] <zeeshan> and if not
[18:11:48] <zeeshan> what would i need to log so i can take it to matlab
[18:11:50] <zeeshan> and bode plot it there
[18:13:36] <pcw_home> hal sample the commanded and actual positions for mathlab
[18:14:25] * zeeshan will try tonight
[18:14:32] <pcw_home> no Bode comp :-(
[18:15:21] <zeeshan> its been a long ass time since control systems class
[18:15:31] <zeeshan> they taught us the algorithm
[18:15:38] <zeeshan> maybe can contribute one
[18:16:34] <zeeshan> hm
[18:16:40] <zeeshan> i found a bodeplot.m
[18:17:05] <zeeshan> but it takes a transfer function input :(
[18:17:26] <zeeshan> no idea what i was doing
[18:17:36] <bobo__> Oh no a Mikron under going a Frequency sweep ! what a dance ----I want a movie ,or it never happened. move car out of dance floor first. always did like a waltz ,mayby waltzing matilda will become waltzing mikron
[18:17:48] <zeeshan> haha bobo
[18:19:03] <zeeshan> i forgot why phase angle was a big deal
[18:19:17] <zeeshan> that graph shows its linear decreasing
[18:19:35] <zeeshan> but just means since the input is sinusoidal, the motor can't keep up with the direction change
[18:19:47] <pcw_home> presumably the magnitude is large enough to swamp stiction etc but not so larges as to get crazy at higher frequencies
[18:19:53] <zeeshan> i dont remember why the physical value was important
[18:20:37] <Tom_itx> do i tie motion.spindle-index-enable to the encoder index pin for rigid tapping and other synchronized moves?
[18:20:55] <pcw_home> stability
[18:21:29] <zeeshan> well in that w_n is at 15 rad/s
[18:21:36] <zeeshan> phase angle didnt do anything fancy there
[18:21:41] <pcw_home> at some point the phase lag is enough so you get positive feedback
[18:21:49] <zeeshan> ah
[18:21:49] <zeeshan> haha
[18:22:03] <pcw_home> (so gain had better be below 1 at that point)
[18:22:59] <bobo__> No make it +2 , and a movie
[18:23:27] <zeeshan> troll
[18:23:27] <zeeshan> :D
[18:23:56] <zeeshan> Tom_itx:
[18:25:15] <andypugh> Tom_itx: yes
[18:25:18] <zeeshan> encoder.xx.phase-Z <= hm2_xxxxx.encoder.index
[18:25:36] <zeeshan> encoder.xx.index-enable <=> motion.spindle-index-enable
[18:25:40] <andypugh> Tom_itx: You might need a 3-way net on that pin
[18:25:51] <zeeshan> something like that i think
[18:26:08] <zeeshan> actually i dont think you need encoder
[18:26:16] <zeeshan> you can do it directly interface it to hm2
[18:26:23] <pcw_home> the index pin is only connected externally
[18:26:55] <pcw_home> the motion and encoder index enables connect in hal
[18:28:40] <zeeshan> bobo__: do you still have the drawing open?
[18:29:26] <zeeshan> Tom_itx: mine says: hm2_5i25.0.encoder.05.index-enable <=> motion.spindle-index-enable
[18:30:51] <Tom_itx> and does that link take care of resetting the index each rev?
[18:31:33] <Tom_itx> as i recall watching the index pulse i only got one pulse and read that it needs to be reset each pulse
[18:32:02] <zeeshan> try it
[18:32:05] <zeeshan> rotate it by hand :)
[18:32:25] <Tom_itx> unfortunately the spindle isn't on the machine atm
[18:32:30] <bobo__> zeeshan yes on Dwg.
[18:32:31] <pcw_home> index enable is "funny"
[18:32:32] <pcw_home> motion sets it and the encoder clears it when index is hit
[18:32:42] <zeeshan> bobo__: help me understand it
[18:32:43] <zeeshan> im lost
[18:32:44] <zeeshan> lol
[18:32:47] <Tom_itx> i noticed it was an IO bit
[18:32:51] <Tom_itx> not in or out but both
[18:33:02] <pcw_home> Yes one of the few I/O bits
[18:34:04] <Tom_itx> i need to get this back on the machine now that i'm nearly done rewiring the box
[18:34:50] <bobo__> zeeshan the lost being lead by the blind . if you can stand it ---i will try
[18:34:52] <Tom_itx> i can tell the stock sherline spindle drive wasn't meant to support reverse
[18:34:56] <zeeshan> hahaha
[18:34:57] <Tom_itx> however it does work
[18:35:03] <zeeshan> i think i need to talk it out
[18:35:37] <zeeshan> uploading a pic with color
[18:36:02] <bobo__> zeeshan that rightside is complex
[18:36:13] <Tom_itx> zeeshan if i rotate it by hand it's relying on more than just the index pulse
[18:36:17] <robinsz> im not sure I am quite understanding the "moveoff" component
[18:36:46] <robinsz> it looks like it enables you to adjust offsets when the machine is paused, from soem sort of GUI
[18:36:47] <Tom_itx> robinsz did you see the samples in the source?
[18:36:58] <robinsz> I saw the manpage
[18:37:13] <Tom_itx> iirc in one branch there were some samples
[18:37:31] <robinsz> http://linuxcnc.org/docs/devel/html/config/moveoff.html
[18:38:11] <robinsz> I dont need the GUI part of it
[18:38:25] <zeeshan> http://i.imgur.com/wZtMkQ0.jpg
[18:38:28] <zeeshan> bobo__: COLOR PIc
[18:38:36] <zeeshan> first things first
[18:38:38] <bobo__> zeeshan must be (right side ) for allowing shaft to rotate and provide some radial
[18:38:40] <zeeshan> the grey shaft
[18:38:46] <zeeshan> i think the blue thing is screwed onto the grey shaft
[18:38:48] <zeeshan> so they're one piece.
[18:39:13] <zeeshan> so if i grabbed the left collar nut,
[18:39:25] <zeeshan> and was superman, i could make the springs compress if i pulled hard enough
[18:39:53] <zeeshan> the yellow area is where the hydraulic fluid builds pressure
[18:40:00] <zeeshan> the green thing is the piston
[18:40:12] <zeeshan> which pushes on the blue thing
[18:40:23] <zeeshan> (would be the same as me pulling on the collar nut on the left)
[18:40:59] <bobo__> yes
[18:42:04] <zeeshan> now the question is
[18:42:07] <zeeshan> if i remove the pink thing
[18:42:17] <zeeshan> i'd think the collar on the left
[18:42:31] <zeeshan> would stop the springs from launching the piston in my face? :)
[18:43:04] <zeeshan> ive had a damn valve spring launch near my face before
[18:43:05] <bobo__> the Dwg gives a distance "Hub 5.8" travel
[18:43:15] <zeeshan> yea
[18:43:20] <zeeshan> thats in the open position
[18:43:21] <zeeshan> i'd think.
[18:43:49] <zeeshan> the german translation is:
[18:43:55] <zeeshan> "hube set only in loose position"
[18:44:05] <zeeshan> no idea what that means
[18:44:48] <zeeshan> the only logical thing i can come up with is.. if you had the whole assembly apart
[18:45:15] <zeeshan> you'd hand tighten that left collar nut till it was snug
[18:45:16] <bobo__> You don't know if something has broken or not -----keep face out of path
[18:45:25] <zeeshan> then you'd wanna keep tightening it till you displaced it 5.8mm
[18:45:42] <zeeshan> face will be out of path
[18:45:49] <zeeshan> but idont wanna ruin the threads on the right pink lid
[18:46:02] <zeeshan> they look like fine threads
[18:46:08] <zeeshan> which don't take much abuse
[18:46:33] <zeeshan> and i know something is broke
[18:46:38] <zeeshan> cause when i shake the cylinder, it rattles :)
[18:46:42] <zeeshan> might be the spring packs
[18:47:01] <pcw_home> how many lbs now?
[18:47:07] <zeeshan> about 300
[18:47:17] <zeeshan> should be 10x that according to spec manufacturer gave me
[18:47:22] <bobo__> make a plug ? fine thread the O.D. --3/8 I.D.
[18:47:59] * zeeshan is getting tired of manual drawbar
[18:48:05] * zeeshan needs hydraulics!
[18:48:19] <pcw_home> only ~75 ft lbs, 22 pistol category
[18:48:33] <zeeshan> lol
[18:49:02] <pcw_home> 750 if correct about .357
[18:49:15] <zeeshan> are you trying to scare me? :D
[18:49:20] <pcw_home> yes
[18:49:23] <zeeshan> haha
[18:49:48] <bobo__> what holds grey shaft to blue colla ?r
[18:50:00] <zeeshan> bobo__: that is the "if"
[18:50:05] <zeeshan> i _think_ its threaded on
[18:50:09] <zeeshan> its the only logical thing.
[18:50:11] <andypugh> robinsz: If you want to use “moveoff” then you do need the GUI. All it does is insert offsets between the machine commanded position and actual position. It’s a hack to placate those who said that they needed to be able to retract the tool on pause.
[18:50:39] <robinsz> then thats not goingto work for me
[18:50:50] <robinsz> I need the following:
[18:50:54] <robinsz> press pause button
[18:50:59] <robinsz> tool retracts
[18:51:00] <zeeshan> im curious if
[18:51:02] <zeeshan> what tha tis
[18:51:05] <robinsz> spindle stops
[18:51:14] <zeeshan> it looks like some dowels that are placed between the blue thing and the piston
[18:51:51] <bobo__> yes
[18:51:52] <robinsz> when I press resume, spindle runs up, z returns to last position, motion re starts
[18:51:57] <robinsz> its standard on routers
[18:52:11] <Tom_itx> robinsz i think those samples are in rob's branch
[18:52:14] <andypugh> robinsz: Like this: http://youtu.be/mSx2zIUWVzQ
[18:52:32] <robinsz> Tom_itx, URL?
[18:52:41] <Tom_itx> lemme see if i can find it
[18:52:45] <robinsz> andypugh, yeah, I dont need that GUI bit
[18:53:06] <zeeshan> andypugh: how does it know how much to retract?
[18:53:17] <zeeshan> and that angle
[18:53:21] <andypugh> I can’t remember.
[18:53:29] <andypugh> It was last year
[18:53:46] <zeeshan> cause that would crash dependong on the part
[18:53:47] <bobo__> piston moves dowel --dowel moves blue part ----dowel is hard and less surface area
[18:53:49] <zeeshan> *depending
[18:54:03] <zeeshan> bobo__: that makes sense
[18:54:10] <andypugh> I think I took a patch from Machinekit, applied it to LinuxCNC and set fixed offsets in X and Z
[18:54:29] <zeeshan> ah
[18:54:36] <zeeshan> jogging during pause would be nice ..
[18:54:41] <zeeshan> especially if you snapped a carbide insert :p
[18:54:52] <andypugh> Yeah. Now tell us how to do it
[18:54:59] <zeeshan> if i really wanted it
[18:55:02] <zeeshan> i'd figure it out
[18:55:08] <zeeshan> so that tells you my intentions :-)
[18:55:54] <zeeshan> what i want is your macros working on my lathe
[18:55:55] <zeeshan> !
[18:56:00] <andypugh> This article on the Wiki describes the problem.
[18:56:02] <andypugh> http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?WhyManualWhilePausedIsHard
[18:56:28] <robinsz> I dont need manual while paused, thankfully
[18:56:35] <pcw_home> seems like you would have to replay an unknowable amount of leading gcode
[18:56:42] <robinsz> just a simple router retract
[18:56:54] <robinsz> all the way up to the top of the Z axis
[18:56:56] <pcw_home> simpler problem
[18:57:03] <zeeshan> looks like andypugh's method would work for you
[18:57:05] <andypugh> There has been an increase in the degree of change to the code that people are now prepared to try (especially in Machinekit where mah seems happy to consider wholesale re-writes of entire sections of the code)
[18:58:18] <andypugh> robinsz: In that case I think that Moveoff will work for you. Just setp the required retract and when you pause the fixed offset is applied.
[18:58:23] <bobo__> zeeshan dowels might help for allowing piston to follow it's bore vers shaft axis
[18:58:41] <zeeshan> bobo__: okay that makes a LOT more sense
[18:58:44] <zeeshan> they are guides
[18:58:54] <zeeshan> that would mean
[18:59:07] <zeeshan> they might be pressed into the thing that attaches to the blue thing
[18:59:13] <andypugh> Fixed-retract is also not too hard with offset and limit3.
[18:59:14] <zeeshan> er
[18:59:17] <zeeshan> slide
[18:59:18] <zeeshan> not pressed
[18:59:18] <atom1> andypugh, do you know where dewey put his examples for moveoff?
[18:59:27] <andypugh> I have no idea.
[18:59:31] <robinsz> andypugh, I just need to understand how to configure it
[18:59:43] <atom1> i had them but am unable to locate now
[18:59:56] <bobo__> I hope they slide
[19:00:02] <pcw_home> moveoff is part of 2.7
[19:00:14] <zeeshan> looks like 2.7
[19:00:16] <robinsz> I think I found the 2.7 source
[19:00:17] <zeeshan> will be one fancy upgrade
[19:00:20] <pcw_home> so probably in the config examples
[19:00:22] <zeeshan> Trajector planner
[19:00:26] <zeeshan> move while paulse !
[19:00:29] <zeeshan> so much fancy stuff
[19:00:45] <pcw_home> uspace
[19:00:47] <atom1> robinsz, i'd suggest checking out dewey's branch and see if he put some examples there. iirc that's where i saw them
[19:01:02] <andypugh> I can’t find that branch
[19:01:02] <atom1> those would be early on in his testing
[19:01:03] <robinsz> URL?
[19:01:12] <atom1> i'm still looking
[19:01:14] * zeeshan wants 2.7 stable
[19:01:37] <bobo__> Good fancy stuff. great
[19:01:43] <robinsz> im not even sure how or where you download 2.7 from
[19:01:51] <zeeshan> github
[19:02:08] <robinsz> URL?
[19:02:10] <andypugh> robinsz: Demos: http://git.linuxcnc.org/gitweb?p=linuxcnc.git;a=tree;f=configs/sim/axis/moveoff;h=96124ffc5851b499482a25a6837b29d744dc6035;hb=refs/heads/2.7
[19:02:19] <zeeshan> https://github.com/jepler/linuxcnc-mirror
[19:02:33] <pcw_home> if zeeshan wants 2.7 stable, zeeshan should run 2.7 pre3 and check for bugs
[19:02:38] <andypugh> robinsz: You can have 2.7 as binaries from the buildbot
[19:02:40] <atom1> thanks andy
[19:02:52] <zeeshan> pcw_home: i intend to!
[19:02:59] <zeeshan> asap machine is running 100%
[19:03:19] <zeeshan> i was looking through the new tp code
[19:03:24] <zeeshan> rob has done a lot of work.
[19:03:25] <andypugh> http://buildbot.linuxcnc.org
[19:03:28] <zeeshan> didn't realize how much work it was
[19:03:50] <robinsz> andypugh, um ... ive not looked at this for at least 5 years, I understand the words are english ... but the meaning is currently opaque
[19:03:50] <zeeshan> i was curious to see his credentials
[19:03:52] <andypugh> (I think you might have to use a bit of guesswork to get the right apt line)
[19:03:58] <zeeshan> he's got a proper background :)
[19:03:58] <atom1> andypugh, is master 2.7?
[19:04:35] <pcw_home> master is 2.8 something
[19:04:44] <andypugh> atom1: No, master ihas stuff that won’t be in 2.7
[19:05:02] <robinsz> ah, OK, that6 makes some sense now :)
[19:05:34] <andypugh> robinsz: The meaning of which of my statements are less than pellucid?
[19:05:59] <robinsz> the URL to buildbot wiki page helped a lot
[19:06:29] <robinsz> thats kinda neat and organised :)
[19:07:30] <andypugh> Right, time to sleep for me.
[19:07:33] <andypugh> Night all
[19:07:36] <zeeshan> nite
[19:07:42] <zeeshan> bobo__: after pink cap is removbed
[19:07:53] <zeeshan> how in the world would i rotate the left collar nut
[19:07:57] <zeeshan> to remove spring tension slowly
[19:08:01] <zeeshan> the whole shaft will spin
[19:08:11] <bobo__> zeeshan do you have 1 or more Strap wrench ? for turning round stuff such as that hydrolic
[19:08:24] <atom1> zeeshan, hold your shaft tightly
[19:08:25] <zeeshan> yea i have one
[19:09:55] <zeeshan> https://www.flickr.com/photos/128539016@N05/16412452615/
[19:09:59] <zeeshan> you can see the collar nut on this
[19:10:05] <bobo__> may have to make a split coller .----and use shaft in coller --coller in vice
[19:10:05] <zeeshan> its the grayest one
[19:12:27] <bobo__> looking at Dwg. it looks like every thing shells out the right /top side
[19:12:42] <zeeshan> yes
[19:12:47] <zeeshan> but only after you loosen the left collar
[19:13:01] <zeeshan> thats why im thinking, the pink thing comes off first
[19:13:09] <zeeshan> then you slowly loosen the left collar
[19:13:11] <zeeshan> to release spring tension
[19:13:40] <zeeshan> once the collar nut is off
[19:13:44] <zeeshan> the whole thing should slide out
[19:14:08] <bobo__> I think you are correct
[19:14:17] <zeeshan> im gonna to loose an eye
[19:14:22] <zeeshan> be back in a bit :)
[19:14:39] <robinsz> so, how do you figure out how much offset to apply? I guess I need to claculate the difference between the current Z joint position and the top of the Z joint
[19:14:43] <robinsz> ??
[19:15:42] <atom1> your offset is measured from the top down iirc
[19:15:56] <atom1> when you set the tooling
[19:16:02] <XXCoder1> zeeshan: in least its loose eye not lost a eye
[19:16:03] <robinsz> ?
[19:16:15] <atom1> use that along with the current position
[19:16:23] <robinsz> how?
[19:16:37] <atom1> :) i've not tried it yet
[19:17:08] <robinsz> what I am not seeing is any sort of macro that is run when the pause button is pushed
[19:17:29] <robinsz> I don't really understand how this all hangs together
[19:18:34] <atom1> i would only be guessing at this point...
[19:19:42] <robinsz> in Mach3 you can write visual basic macros that run when you press an on-screen control
[19:19:50] <_methods> is anyone in here running 64bit with rt-preempt?
[19:20:09] <_methods> is that the only way to run 64bit linuxcnc?
[19:20:18] <robinsz> makes it quite simple to do stuff like this
[19:20:50] <zeeshan-mill> mach 3 is also not real time
[19:20:52] <zeeshan-mill> :-)
[19:21:09] <XXCoder1> zeeshan: in least its loose eye not lost a eye ;)
[19:21:15] <zeeshan-mill> i mean lose haha
[19:21:17] <robinsz> this I know
[19:21:26] <XXCoder1> yea had to joke though
[19:21:37] <robinsz> id rather slam my fingers in a car door than use Mach3
[19:21:39] <zeeshan-mill> im making a thin wrench
[19:21:41] <zeeshan-mill> for this piece of shit
[19:21:51] <zeeshan-mill> they had full room to use a regular wrench
[19:21:57] <zeeshan-mill> =/
[19:22:10] <robinsz> im lost as to how to get moveoff to stop the spindle
[19:22:27] <atom1> can you call a sub from within it?
[19:22:34] <robinsz> no idea
[19:22:50] <atom1> i know you can tie subs to ngcgui buttons
[19:22:51] <XXCoder1> atom1: recusive call
[19:23:05] <XXCoder1> dunno if language you use supports it, but thats what its called
[19:42:07] <robinsz> so these snippets of code in the moveoff samples .. do I paste them into the main ini file or what?
[19:43:05] <bobo__> hathaway is looking for a few good shirt salesmen ------zeeshan are you qualified now ? they supply eye patches
[20:19:11] <MacGalempsy> cant figure out what I did to get the halscope to stop triggering
[20:25:23] <MacGalempsy> got. it...
[20:25:37] <MacGalempsy> zeeshan: you making anything yet?
[20:29:08] <furrywolf> not too much yard sale stuff today. a pair of new-in-box 16W LED vehicle worklights for $6, some assorted tools and cable for $2, and a few little things.
[20:37:06] <bobo__> yard sales were canceled due to snow ,around here
[20:37:33] <furrywolf> sun here
[20:37:46] <zeeshan-mill> lost an eye
[20:38:05] <zeeshan-mill> =]
[20:38:09] <zeeshan-mill> =]
[20:38:20] <bobo__> hathaway shirts for you
[20:38:29] <zeeshan-mill> wut
[20:38:32] <zeeshan-mill> whats that
[20:38:44] <zeeshan-mill> i got thepink cap off
[20:38:51] <zeeshan-mill> and the damn long rod that was atachedto that grey shaft
[20:38:58] <zeeshan-mill> i can see thep iston
[20:39:01] <zeeshan-mill> but it wont come out
[20:39:08] <furrywolf> ... lost an eye?
[20:39:13] <zeeshan-mill> furrywolf, joke
[20:39:21] <bobo__> their ad had a guy with a eye patch
[20:39:25] <zeeshan-mill> oh
[20:39:46] <zeeshan-mill> http://i.imgur.com/wZtMkQ0.jpg
[20:39:47] <zeeshan-mill> halp!
[20:39:54] <zeeshan-mill> i see mr green
[20:40:05] <zeeshan-mill> it doesnt wanna come out
[20:41:05] <furrywolf> It was Mr Green, in the machine room, with the hydraulic ram!
[20:41:52] <bobo__> is the left threaded ring off the shaft ?
[20:42:54] <bobo__> try air into vent hole
[20:44:03] <bobo__>
[20:44:52] <zeeshan-mill> bobo
[20:44:53] <zeeshan-mill> its loose
[20:45:02] <zeeshan-mill> the left thread collar nut
[20:45:16] <zeeshan-mill> on the center of the piston
[20:45:19] <zeeshan-mill> there is a threaded hole
[20:45:23] <zeeshan-mill> i think youre supposed to put a bolt in there
[20:45:24] <zeeshan-mill> and pull on it
[20:45:29] <zeeshan-mill> its still not budging
[20:45:38] <bobo__> shows a vent hole -air might pop stuff out right side
[20:46:00] <zeeshan-mill> itll justleak air
[20:48:57] <bobo__> would think if is removed ,then tap rod to shove stuff out right
[20:51:10] <bobo__> whate if the ball is retaining the parts ?
[20:51:16] <zeeshan-mill> it came out
[20:51:20] <zeeshan-mill> i needd to stick that ball on
[20:51:22] <zeeshan-mill> er
[20:51:25] <zeeshan-mill> bolt in, and rotate it
[20:51:38] <zeeshan-mill> then pull on the bolt
[20:51:47] <zeeshan-mill> now i need to get 213.4.1 off
[20:51:50] <zeeshan-mill> and it should all come out
[20:51:55] <zeeshan-mill> i can see those 3 dowels pins
[20:51:59] <zeeshan-mill> theyre sliding fit :)
[20:52:08] <bobo__> good
[20:55:27] <bobo__> the part the dowel pins pass thru ---how does it clamp to the shaft ? is it a split coller type thing ?
[20:56:37] * furrywolf wonders if this device has more parts than the world has IP addresses
[20:57:57] <bobo__> furrywolf it's a German part
[20:58:29] <cpresser> what kind of tool/part is that anyway?
[20:59:19] <bobo__> hyd tool holder relese
[20:59:24] <cpresser> btw, gesichert meens 'glued in' here, but most likely you already know that
[20:59:35] <Tom_itx> grabs the retention knob on a spindle
[21:02:26] <furrywolf> bobo__: I gathered that from the german.
[21:04:57] <bobo__> Germany has made some amazing stuff
[21:07:59] <ssi> hi
[21:09:28] <cpresser> yes, we invented fascism
[21:09:40] <ssi> I don't think you invented it
[21:09:48] <ssi> helped perfect it maybe
[21:10:25] <cpresser> i am not sure if italy was first.. lets look it up :)
[21:10:41] <bobo__> ssi help zeeshan disassemble the hyd pull stud thingy for his mikron mill
[21:10:52] <ssi> hahah
[21:10:59] <ssi> I told him hydraulics were bad news
[21:11:04] <ssi> I'm trying to put my plasma table back together
[21:11:17] <ssi> I seem to be missing the 5i25 P2 breakout
[21:12:20] <bobo__> not another fire sold item I hope
[21:12:32] <ssi> who knows
[21:12:48] <ssi> I have no idea what I do and don't own at this point
[21:13:23] <bobo__> Christmas time
[21:13:34] <MacGalempsy> when PID tuning, should the machine be on the edge of bouncing when P is close to being right?
[21:13:52] <ssi> back P off enough so it's stable
[21:13:56] <cpresser> MacGalempsy: depending on which tuning rule you use, yes
[21:14:00] <ssi> more P means quicker response
[21:14:09] <furrywolf> one estate sale I went to had an old machinist's toolbox in the corner of the garage, not for sale. I asked the girl running the sale about it, and she said it was full of tools, but they weren't selling it until her father looked through them. I gave her my number.
[21:14:22] * furrywolf hasn't gotten a call yet, but it's only been 6 hours...
[21:14:53] <cpresser> MacGalempsy: there is a tutorial: http://gnipsel.com/linuxcnc/tuning/servo.html
[21:15:10] <MacGalempsy> yeah I see that, but it only does P, FF1 and FF2
[21:15:23] <ssi> yeah that's the best tuning method in my opinion
[21:15:27] <bobo__> buy father a cold 6 pack---as soon as you can
[21:15:45] <cpresser> MacGalempsy: there is also the NZ-Method: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ziegler%E2%80%93Nichols_method
[21:15:49] <pcw_home> Typically thats all that needed for a velocity mode drive
[21:15:49] <furrywolf> father wasn't there, and girl was annoying.
[21:16:17] <pcw_home> FF1 is the main thing
[21:16:55] <MacGalempsy> cpresser: do F0, FF1, and FF2 correspond to any of the "Control types in that table?"
[21:17:57] <MacGalempsy> maybe I am at the limits of the amp tuning
[21:17:57] <cpresser> MacGalempsy: actually, I dont know about anything about those FF-Terms. They didnt cover that during control-thery-lecure at the unviversity
[21:18:14] <pcw_home> ZN knows nothing about feed forward
[21:18:22] <MacGalempsy> k
[21:18:24] <ssi> FF is feedforward
[21:18:28] <cpresser> the tutorial does look fine for me, i would follow that
[21:18:37] <ssi> linuxcnc knows a bit about what the command should be, and its derivatives
[21:18:45] <ssi> and you can mix that into the command to compensate
[21:18:51] <MacGalempsy> I will take a screen shot of the best tuning I have been able to come up with, and see if anyone can give some advice
[21:18:55] <MacGalempsy> 1 min
[21:19:10] <ssi> so you tune P like normal, then you'll have some steady state velocity error on a long cruise, so you adjust FF1 (feedforward in velocity) to compensate for that
[21:19:27] <ssi> then you'll have some overshoot/undershoot in the accel phase, and you adjust FF2 (feedforward in acceleration) to compensate
[21:19:30] <ssi> it's pretty easy
[21:19:40] <ssi> way easier than ZN
[21:21:17] <pcw_home> One way to look at it is that if you had perfect velocity mode drives, FF1 is all you would need (just forward linuxcncs commanded velocity to the drive)
[21:22:37] <Tom_itx> what sort of numbers should you start with for P & FF1?
[21:22:47] <Tom_itx> if you're just starting to tune
[21:22:55] <ssi> start with P = 1 and FF1 = 0
[21:23:02] <ssi> turn P up until it oscillates, then back off
[21:23:27] <Tom_itx> you don't use I or D on these?
[21:23:30] <ssi> nope
[21:23:40] <Tom_itx> what about FF2?
[21:23:44] <Tom_itx> what's it for?
[21:23:52] <ssi> FF2 is to compensate for acceleration errors
[21:24:07] <Tom_itx> ok
[21:24:15] <pcw_home> If you normalize your PID parameters FF1=1
[21:24:20] <ssi> when you do a long fast jog, and watch it in halscope, you'll see the command do a smooth ramp up (the accel), a steady constant velocity cruise, and a smooth ramp down (decel)
[21:24:28] <Tom_itx> i've had enough for one day but i'll work on it more tomorrow
[21:24:32] <ssi> FF1 lets you adjust to minimize the error during the cruise phase
[21:24:41] <ssi> FF2 lets you adjust to minimize the error during the accel phase
[21:24:47] <Tom_itx> been trying to get sync working too...
[21:24:53] <ssi> you'll typically hav ean error trace in halscope that looks like an S
[21:24:53] <MacGalempsy> https://www.flickr.com/photos/58181938@N03/16420477190/
[21:24:57] <cpresser> can anyone suggest a reading on what FF1 and FF2 are (from a theoretical/math point of view). i could look at the pid-controller sources, but i guess there are better places?
[21:25:11] <ssi> it'll bump up or down during the accel, then be straight but non-zero during cruise, then go down or up during decel
[21:26:03] <Tom_itx> what sort of increments would you use to make changes? ie how sensitive is it?
[21:26:05] <MacGalempsy> the amps were "extensively tuned" by the manufactururer
[21:26:12] <ssi> cpresser: with velocity mode drives, the command that's output is multiplied times (FF1 * vel-cmd)
[21:26:13] <pcw_home> In a position mode loop FF1 forwards the commanded velocity to the PID output, and FF2 forwards the commanded acceleration to the output
[21:26:16] <ssi> I think that's how it actually works
[21:26:28] <ssi> and FF2 * the commanded accel
[21:26:41] <cpresser> ssi: okay, that does help me understand it. thanks
[21:27:32] <ssi> pcw_home: my 26pin to DB25 P2 adapter has gone missing! :'(
[21:27:32] <MacGalempsy> you can see the soft start on the joint-vel-cmd, but I think that is the amp tuning
[21:28:03] <ssi> MacGalempsy: also if you can adjust the command offset of your drive, you want to watch halscope and adjust the offset to zero out any drift
[21:28:05] <pcw_home> ssi: look in your box of PC junk
[21:28:17] <ssi> drift will show up as a non-zero error when the axis isn't moving
[21:28:25] <ssi> or non-zero vel-cmd maybe
[21:28:33] <ssi> pcw_home: I don't really have boxes of PC junk anymore since the fire :(
[21:28:58] <ssi> the plasma table got summarily ripped out and moved across town, and I'm trying to put it back together now
[21:29:10] <ssi> the pc that was running it used to have that adapter in it, not sure why it doesn't anymore
[21:29:36] <pcw_home> I can send you one on Monday if you remind me
[21:30:02] <pcw_home> low profile?
[21:30:05] <ssi> yea
[21:30:10] <ssi> I'll remind you monday if I don't locate it
[21:38:11] <pcw_home> MacGalempsy: to me it looks like the drives have a offset error (the ferror trace should be roughly symmetrical about 0)
[21:38:51] <pcw_home> also set I to 0 for initial tuning
[21:39:29] <MacGalempsy> I was just looking at that, and the two axes with the same motors have the zero pot dialed differently.
[21:39:38] <furrywolf> apparantly the torch tower fire was caused by someone using a grill on a balcony. something that most people should consider a bad idea...
[21:40:10] <MacGalempsy> I have a feeling the x axis is plugged into either the z axis amp or the 4th axis amp
[21:40:46] <pcw_home> you can set P,I,D to 0 and adjust the offset so the drift is minimized
[21:41:41] <pcw_home> note that with PID set to 0 it will drift till you get a following error
[21:42:51] <MacGalempsy> its a good thing I documented the board layout! lol lets see what I boned up
[21:43:09] <pcw_home> grill on balcony on building with plastic siding = probably not a great idea
[21:44:42] <MacGalempsy> yeajh. time to swap
[21:44:59] <furrywolf> I don't know which is worse... that someone would use a grill in such a manner, or that a building was designed such that a reasonably expectable bit of idiocy results in 30 floors burning.
[21:46:28] <_methods> never underestimate the power of stupid
[21:47:45] <furrywolf> however, I guess it was largely confined to the outside skin, and the fire department managed to put it out in three hours, which is pretty impressive itself.
[21:48:00] <MacGalempsy> take 2 test time! lol
[21:58:13] <furrywolf> just tested one of the worklights... standard chinese leds, but seem usable. not bad for $3/each. looks like they're about $20/each online.
[22:08:27] <zeeshan> frigging hyd cylinder
[22:08:29] <zeeshan> wont come apart !
[22:08:37] <furrywolf> bigger hammer?
[22:08:41] <zeeshan> tried a press too
[22:08:47] <zeeshan> i appled 5000lb pressure
[22:08:49] <zeeshan> fkr wont come out
[22:09:18] <furrywolf> work smarter, not harder?
[22:09:19] * furrywolf hides
[22:09:25] <zeeshan> lol
[22:09:51] <Tom_itx> you just need the key to unlock it
[22:10:05] <zeeshan> http://i.imgur.com/wZtMkQ0.jpg
[22:10:09] <zeeshan> the red thing wont come out
[22:10:27] <zeeshan> the blue thing wont come out
[22:10:28] <zeeshan> cause of it
[22:10:43] <Tom_itx> are you removing the red thing to the right or left?
[22:10:48] <Tom_itx> it comes out the right
[22:10:53] <zeeshan> towards the right
[22:11:01] <zeeshan> the 11 ball bearings are out
[22:11:16] <zeeshan> 95.100.410.4.1
[22:11:19] <zeeshan> is the other thing stuck
[22:11:20] <zeeshan> that wont come out
[22:11:23] <furrywolf> only cylinders I've taken apart were trivial, so I have no experience with ones like yours.
[22:11:30] <Tom_itx> left hand thread?
[22:11:36] <zeeshan> yea usually they are just a piston
[22:11:40] <zeeshan> Tom_itx: its not threaded
[22:11:48] <Tom_itx> what holds it on then?
[22:12:17] <zeeshan> i dont know :(
[22:12:26] <Tom_itx> is the pink out?
[22:12:29] <zeeshan> yea
[22:12:31] <Tom_itx> is the green out?
[22:12:34] <zeeshan> even the dowels are out
[22:12:54] <Tom_itx> 212.5.1?
[22:13:01] <zeeshan> yea
[22:13:02] <zeeshan> those are out
[22:13:28] <zeeshan> btw
[22:13:33] <zeeshan> bvroken pieces of springs came out
[22:13:42] <zeeshan> the ball bearings dont look worn
[22:13:47] <zeeshan> so i think it just needs a new spring pack
[22:13:47] <Tom_itx> 814.4.2?
[22:13:49] <zeeshan> and its good to go
[22:13:52] <zeeshan> yea
[22:13:56] <zeeshan> that pic is misleading
[22:14:01] <zeeshan> but even in that white space between the springs
[22:14:04] <zeeshan> is a stack of springs
[22:14:05] <Tom_itx> so that's what's jammed in holding the red in
[22:14:34] <Tom_itx> blow about 150psi thru the side hole
[22:14:38] <Tom_itx> what happens?
[22:14:44] <zeeshan> itll just leak air
[22:14:54] <zeeshan> the gray rod
[22:15:00] <zeeshan> is out
[22:15:26] <zeeshan> all thats left is the spring pack, the red thing
[22:15:32] <Tom_itx> snap ring above the red part
[22:15:33] <zeeshan> 211.4.1
[22:15:33] <Tom_itx> ?
[22:16:00] <Tom_itx> but you said the green was out...
[22:16:08] <zeeshan> yea its out
[22:16:11] <Tom_itx> are those seals or snaprings?
[22:16:15] <Tom_itx> around Mr. Green
[22:16:23] <zeeshan> 3 seals
[22:16:55] <bobo__> 95100.211.is holding 95.100.410.4.1
[22:17:21] <zeeshan> wtf is that
[22:17:25] <zeeshan> and how do you get it out
[22:17:26] <zeeshan> lol
[22:17:28] <zeeshan> i thought it was just a seal
[22:17:44] <Tom_itx> compression ring of some sort?
[22:18:18] <Tom_itx> hmm it appears to move
[22:18:30] <Tom_itx> it's up in the top and down in the bottom
[22:18:40] <Tom_itx> because of Mr. Blue
[22:19:13] <zeeshan> it should slide out!
[22:19:23] <bobo__> how did you get the shaft (gray) out ?
[22:19:25] <Tom_itx> push Mr Blue to the left
[22:19:38] <Tom_itx> so it's in Mr Blue's slot
[22:19:43] <zeeshan> bobo__: it slide out the right
[22:19:47] <zeeshan> along with the thing that the dowels sit in
[22:19:51] <zeeshan> theyre all 1 piece
[22:19:52] <Tom_itx> then slide Mr Red out the right
[22:20:07] <zeeshan> Tom_itx: i have been trying!
[22:20:09] <zeeshan> it doesnt wanna budge
[22:20:24] <Tom_itx> is the white behind Mr Green out or is that threaded in place?
[22:20:31] <Tom_itx> not the dowels
[22:20:40] <Tom_itx> the thing the dowels are in
[22:20:47] <zeeshan> the things the dowels are
[22:20:50] <zeeshan> is part of the long grey shaft
[22:20:52] <zeeshan> theyre one piece
[22:20:58] <Tom_itx> you said that was out
[22:21:00] <zeeshan> its a guide
[22:21:03] <zeeshan> yes
[22:21:06] <zeeshan> it came out with the gray thing
[22:21:10] <zeeshan> its that red thing
[22:21:12] <zeeshan> that doesnt wanna come out
[22:21:14] <Tom_itx> so what about the Blue thing?
[22:21:15] <zeeshan> i can see it
[22:21:21] <zeeshan> blue thing is chilling inthere
[22:21:28] <zeeshan> because its bigger than the red thing in diameter
[22:21:28] <Tom_itx> it needs to move left
[22:21:30] <zeeshan> so it wont come out
[22:21:32] <zeeshan> its floating inthere
[22:21:37] <zeeshan> theres like 1/2" gap move movement
[22:21:37] <Tom_itx> so Mr Red can move
[22:21:39] <zeeshan> *of
[22:22:05] <Tom_itx> saw it in half so you can get a better view of it
[22:22:12] <zeeshan> i was thinking of turning it
[22:22:14] <zeeshan> and rewelding it
[22:22:16] <zeeshan> :-)
[22:22:25] <Tom_itx> no that would be bad
[22:22:33] <zeeshan> im kidding
[22:22:45] <zeeshan> lemme snap a pic
[22:22:57] <Tom_itx> better hurry
[22:23:01] <Tom_itx> i'm growing weary
[22:24:37] <bobo__> my thinking (and hope ) is the red part is only stuck ----very gentle tap, mayby ?
[22:25:15] <Tom_itx> it is supposed to slide
[22:25:21] <Tom_itx> acording to the diagram
[22:25:55] <bobo__> may have devolped a ridge ?
[22:26:14] <Tom_itx> is the nut on the left end removed?
[22:26:28] <Tom_itx> it looks like the grey shaft comes out the right end as well
[22:27:36] <bobo__> thought shaft was out
[22:27:53] <Tom_itx> i'm not sure at this point
[22:28:15] <bobo__> who is on first ?
[22:28:28] <furrywolf> http://www.ebay.com/itm/Sale-LED-Filament-Bulb-6W-true-LED-60W-equivalent-650lumens-3000k-A19-/121574991822 wtf?
[22:29:04] <zeeshan> https://www.flickr.com/photos/128539016@N05/16607312242/
[22:29:05] <zeeshan> gray thing,
[22:29:12] <zeeshan> https://www.flickr.com/photos/128539016@N05/15985769144/in/photostream/
[22:29:24] <zeeshan> the dowels slide through that and push against the blue thing.
[22:29:37] <zeeshan> https://www.flickr.com/photos/128539016@N05/15988176723/
[22:29:47] <zeeshan> blue thing being floppy inside the cylinder
[22:30:23] <_methods> furrywolf: those bulbs are cool as hell
[22:30:37] <_methods> we do some work at my shop for a lighting company
[22:31:00] <zeeshan> they are fancy
[22:31:00] <_methods> they also have some with filaments the move like flickering light/flames
[22:31:11] <_methods> s/the/that
[22:31:32] <Tom_itx> zeeshan that's the blue thing in the center of the last pic?
[22:31:34] <furrywolf> I've never seen filament LEDs before...
[22:31:50] <zeeshan> yea its the blue thing inthe diagram
[22:32:29] <_methods> yeah they look good too
[22:32:33] <Tom_itx> how far will it slide?
[22:32:43] <zeeshan> red thing wont slide at all
[22:32:43] <zeeshan> :/
[22:32:46] <Tom_itx> blue
[22:32:53] <zeeshan> oh that thing is like moving .5"
[22:32:57] <zeeshan> maybe even 3/4"
[22:33:01] <furrywolf> I'm trying to find an unusually short LED bulb, for a fixture that looks like it should take a regular A19 lamp, but only has 3+3/4" available length from the button contact to the glass.
[22:33:04] <Tom_itx> can you move it more?
[22:33:12] <zeeshan> no
[22:33:20] <Tom_itx> what holds compression on those wavy springs?
[22:33:33] <Tom_itx> the left set and the right set?
[22:33:45] <zeeshan> well when you tigthen the nut on the gray shaft
[22:33:48] <zeeshan> it pulls everything together
[22:33:52] <zeeshan> (the spring pack)
[22:34:06] <Tom_itx> so you need a tool to pull that thing back
[22:34:13] <Tom_itx> so it will go past the red thing
[22:34:15] <zeeshan> the springs arent under tension
[22:34:23] <zeeshan> theyre flopping around
[22:34:44] <zeeshan> pull the blue thing back ?
[22:34:47] <zeeshan> through the right side?
[22:34:55] <Tom_itx> push the blue thing back as far as you can and see if you can hook something behind Mr Red to pull it out to the right
[22:35:12] <Tom_itx> pull the blue to the left and the red to the right
[22:35:45] <Tom_itx> use that allthread you have
[22:35:55] <bobo__> try slamming right side into wood block
[22:35:59] <Tom_itx> put a nut on both ends and tighten it up
[22:36:07] <zeeshan> bobo__:
[22:36:09] <zeeshan> ive been doing that
[22:36:09] <Tom_itx> to pull the center back
[22:36:10] <zeeshan> for a while
[22:36:10] <zeeshan> lol
[22:36:24] <furrywolf> most LED bulbs seem to start at 4.4", while I need 3.8". bleh.
[22:36:26] <Tom_itx> then see if you can pull the red piece out
[22:37:02] <Tom_itx> something must be in front (right) of the red thing holding it in place
[22:37:13] <Tom_itx> what's that white part next to the pins?
[22:37:16] <zeeshan> well you see the pic :P
[22:37:23] <zeeshan> there is no snap ring or anything
[22:37:40] <Tom_itx> afayk
[22:38:02] <Tom_itx> is it threaded?
[22:38:11] <Tom_itx> it can't be because it slides
[22:38:13] <Tom_itx> the red part
[22:38:15] <zeeshan> yea
[22:38:21] <zeeshan> maybe its just cocked
[22:38:30] <zeeshan> and being a bastard
[22:38:41] <Tom_itx> pull the blue part to the left and hook something under the red part
[22:38:41] <zeeshan> i need something that can pull on the blue thing
[22:38:44] <zeeshan> and force the red thing out
[22:38:52] <Tom_itx> i told you to use the allthread you got
[22:38:56] <Tom_itx> for the blue part
[22:39:05] <zeeshan> well that'l ljust compress the springs
[22:39:14] <zeeshan> the spring pressure should help the red thing come out !
[22:39:18] <zeeshan> not keep it in :(
[22:39:20] <Tom_itx> won't it move the blue part to the left?
[22:39:27] <zeeshan> yes it will
[22:39:30] <zeeshan> by compressing the springs
[22:39:35] <Tom_itx> past the end of the red thing?
[22:39:36] <zeeshan> and taking up the gap cause of broken springs
[22:39:42] <bobo__> are the 6.2 balls out ?
[22:39:48] <zeeshan> bobo__: yea
[22:39:59] <bobo__> crap
[22:40:06] <zeeshan> wait a second.
[22:40:14] <zeeshan> i think that RED thing is out already
[22:40:27] <zeeshan> https://www.flickr.com/photos/128539016@N05/16607312242/in/photostream/
[22:40:32] <zeeshan> that sure as hell looks like the red thing .
[22:40:42] <zeeshan> yea
[22:40:44] <zeeshan> that is the red thing for sure.
[22:41:04] <zeeshan> you can tell by the chamfer on the part that has the dowel holes
[22:41:09] <Tom_itx> so what's left then?
[22:41:10] <zeeshan> its mr 410.4.1
[22:41:13] <zeeshan> that is firigging suck.
[22:41:17] <zeeshan> stuck
[22:41:22] <zeeshan> you can see that the blue thing has an edge
[22:41:36] <zeeshan> 410.4.1 wont let the blue thing come out
[22:41:48] <zeeshan> i think i need to pull on the blue thing
[22:41:53] <zeeshan> force it out.
[22:41:55] <Tom_itx> is 410 threaded?
[22:42:08] <zeeshan> i dont think so
[22:42:11] <zeeshan> i dont see anywhere to assemble
[22:42:13] <zeeshan> or disassemble it
[22:42:16] <zeeshan> if it was threaded
[22:42:16] <Tom_itx> then pull Mr Blue back like i said
[22:42:31] <zeeshan> how?
[22:42:34] <zeeshan> all thread will compress it
[22:42:36] <zeeshan> not pull on it
[22:42:45] <zeeshan> i wanna pull it to the right
[22:43:04] <abetusk> I was hoping to connect some DROs directly to the table of my CNC to get absolute position (if not exactly real-time). I was hoping to maybe talk it out to see what other people think about it. My CNC is a Zen Toolworks with anti-backlash nuts. Will the anti-backlash nuts mess with repeatability? What if I just take off the spring and joining nut, can I expect to get repeatability if I take care of it in software?
[22:43:30] <Tom_itx> so put a nut on the end of something smaller than the hole and hook it behind the blue thing and pull
[22:44:02] <zeeshan> this is gonna need a special tool
[22:44:03] <zeeshan> :/
[22:44:12] <zeeshan> none of my gear pullers will fit in there
[22:44:18] * Tom_itx hands zeeshan a sledge hammer
[22:44:22] <zeeshan> lol
[22:44:24] <Tom_itx> is that special enough?
[22:44:43] <Tom_itx> be careful it may have threads
[22:44:47] <Tom_itx> or something
[22:45:15] <Tom_itx> doesn't that hold the springs in?
[22:46:00] <zeeshan> yea
[22:46:03] <zeeshan> looks like it
[22:46:11] <Tom_itx> well maybe it's threaded then
[22:46:18] <Tom_itx> i doubt it's pressed in
[22:46:24] <Tom_itx> is it steel or what?
[22:46:31] <zeeshan> i wish i knew what is
[22:46:53] <zeeshan> yea its steel
[22:46:55] <Tom_itx> it must be steel
[22:47:01] <Tom_itx> the bearings move on it
[22:47:16] <Tom_itx> i bet it's either threaded or stuck
[22:47:28] <Tom_itx> it has to stay in one spot
[22:47:53] <zeeshan> well you see the pciture
[22:47:57] <zeeshan> of it physically
[22:48:00] <zeeshan> theres no way to unscrew it
[22:48:04] <Tom_itx> can you put a screwdriver in from the left and tap on the back side of it?
[22:48:15] <Tom_itx> or some other small diameter tool
[22:48:22] <zeeshan> no
[22:48:25] <Tom_itx> lightly tap on it in various places
[22:48:26] <zeeshan> the spring pack is in the way
[22:48:45] <zeeshan> i think the only way to pull it out
[22:48:47] <zeeshan> is using that blue thing
[22:49:12] <Tom_itx> and it's still in there?
[22:49:25] <zeeshan> huh
[22:49:37] <Tom_itx> the blue part is still in there?
[22:49:49] <Tom_itx> hook a bolt behind it and tug on it a bit
[22:49:58] <Tom_itx> the head of a bolt and see
[22:50:24] <Tom_itx> or bend a rod or something to hook behind it
[22:50:42] <zeeshan> you need like
[22:51:06] <zeeshan> http://img.directindustry.com/images_di/photo-g/hydraulic-bearing-puller-two-arm-self-centering-three-arm-20040-5621021.jpg
[22:51:08] <zeeshan> something like that
[22:51:09] <bobo__> brass / alum smaller than left side hole and tap on side of red part ?
[22:51:11] <zeeshan> that can fit in the tight space
[22:51:32] <zeeshan> bobo__:
[22:51:34] <zeeshan> red part is already out
[22:51:42] <zeeshan> its part of the gray shaft
[22:51:45] <zeeshan> i didnt realize that earlier
[22:51:55] <Tom_itx> i think you can hook something behind it
[22:52:03] <Tom_itx> and gently pull on it a bit
[22:52:12] <zeeshan> http://i.imgur.com/vCog4O8.jpg
[22:52:14] <zeeshan> updated pic
[22:52:55] <zeeshan> slightly off topic
[22:53:01] <zeeshan> that pink thing aka "rotary union"
[22:53:01] <Tom_itx> what if you tap on the spring pack from the left side?
[22:53:04] <zeeshan> that piece of crap
[22:53:07] <zeeshan> is $450 to replace lol
[22:53:20] <zeeshan> Tom_itx: thats what i was trying to do
[22:53:23] <zeeshan> i actually used a press
[22:53:28] <zeeshan> i saw 5000lb pressure
[22:53:33] <zeeshan> i got scared and stopped :p
[22:53:38] <zeeshan> cause it shouldn't be that jammed in.
[22:53:47] <Tom_itx> you got it jammed good now huh?
[22:53:54] <zeeshan> yea!
[22:54:02] <zeeshan> the real question is
[22:54:05] <Tom_itx> will it move to the left at all?
[22:54:07] <zeeshan> wtf is that 211.4.1
[22:54:11] <Tom_itx> if you tap it from the right end?
[22:54:14] <zeeshan> Tom_itx: i havent tried to move it to the left
[22:54:16] <zeeshan> i will try that
[22:54:33] <Tom_itx> it's a retainer
[22:54:44] <zeeshan> yea but it's inside the damn thing
[22:54:47] <zeeshan> how are you supposed to remove it!
[22:54:55] <Tom_itx> not with a press
[22:55:02] <zeeshan> omg
[22:55:04] <zeeshan> wait a sec.
[22:55:09] <zeeshan> oh nm.
[22:55:15] <Tom_itx> see there's a radius just to the right of it that it may be jammed in
[22:55:25] <zeeshan> youre right
[22:55:27] <zeeshan> if it cocks a bit
[22:55:31] <zeeshan> itll jam in there
[22:55:35] <Tom_itx> tap it back to the left
[22:55:54] <zeeshan> brb :P
[22:55:55] <Tom_itx> look at it first to see
[22:56:03] <Tom_itx> or measure the distance to the end
[22:56:20] <Tom_itx> around the diameter to see if one side is out farther
[22:57:04] <Tom_itx> and there may be broken spring in that radius too
[22:57:10] <Tom_itx> clean it out good
[22:58:28] <Tom_itx> gnite
[23:03:47] <bobo__> gnite ? don't leave me alone holding the snipe bag
[23:04:48] <Tom_itx> hope he didn't screw up the race those bearings move in with that ring
[23:10:03] <furrywolf> the shortest led lamps I can find are the chinese corncob ones... I guess for $5 I'll give one a try.
[23:15:16] <bobo__> tom as i see the Dwg ---the red thing is 2 parts , and looking at cylinder it looks as if the outer ring is still in there
[23:15:43] <bobo__> photo of cyl
[23:54:50] <furrywolf> Innovation bulb chandelier, return to the ancients, apply to the bar, evening party, decorate