#linuxcnc | Logs for 2015-02-14

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[00:01:02] <Tom_itx> zeeshan, http://tom-itx.no-ip.biz:81/~webpage/cnc/temp/spindle_board2.jpg
[00:09:59] <zeeshan> whats th ebaord on the right?
[00:10:00] <zeeshan> er
[00:10:01] <zeeshan> left
[00:10:38] <zeeshan> http://i.imgur.com/sRPvFLY.png
[00:10:38] <zeeshan> !!
[00:10:39] <zeeshan> :D
[00:10:46] <zeeshan> http://i.imgur.com/XpsuNRD.png
[00:10:49] <zeeshan> when i zoom in
[00:10:56] <zeeshan> there is a bit of "issue"
[00:11:49] <zeeshan> some of the pulse widths are shorter
[00:14:40] <Tom_itx> it's the isolation board for the driver
[00:15:26] <XXCoder> lol https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gyeTsl8ghcQ
[00:15:32] <XXCoder> makes it look like its constantly busy
[00:15:35] <XXCoder> but not really
[00:15:43] <zeeshan> looks nice man
[00:15:48] <zeeshan> are thsoe custom brackets
[00:15:53] <zeeshan> you made for din rail mounting them
[00:27:58] <Tom_itx> yeah
[00:29:08] <Tom_itx> the clips beside it are fuse blocks
[00:30:08] <zeeshan-mill> ah
[01:01:50] <zeeshan-mill> im getting a good signal
[01:01:58] <zeeshan-mill> but im getting funky spindle velocity
[01:05:59] <zeeshan-mill> http://pastebin.com/ru6mWAZE
[01:06:00] <zeeshan-mill> my config
[02:01:46] <Crom_> Morning
[02:03:56] <Crom_> got limit/home switches mounted
[02:04:17] <Crom_> got it homing in mach3 and linuxcnc the way I want
[02:08:01] <Crom_> so it's alot harder to crash now
[02:12:48] <Crom_> Morning
[02:13:17] <Deejay> moin
[02:16:33] <zeeshan> nice
[02:16:42] <zeeshan> why are you using mach 3! :P
[02:17:29] <Crom_> shop machine is an XP machine, mine is ubuntu mini-box.com running a intel atom board
[02:18:35] <zeeshan> dcc doesnt work
[02:18:37] <zeeshan> for me :P
[02:18:37] <Crom_> this is both machines and the 3040 and one of the guys laser
[02:18:45] <Crom_> fudge
[02:19:03] <Crom_> hmm lemme find a picture site
[02:28:00] <Crom_> http://s172.photobucket.com/user/Robi_Akerley-Mc_Kee/library/
[02:30:13] <zeeshan> cool
[02:30:13] <zeeshan> :D
[02:30:40] <zeeshan> i like the laser cutter
[02:31:31] <Crom_> MDF for the switch mounts right now... I have some delrin cutting board I'm taking in to use and I have to find some screws for the switches and I want to turn some 90 degrees
[02:32:12] <Crom_> there's 2 more and 3 repraps still to put together
[02:33:34] <zeeshan> http://i.imgur.com/XpsuNRD.png
[02:33:35] <zeeshan> ugh
[02:33:37] <zeeshan> relooking at this image
[02:33:46] <zeeshan> i just realized i made a big mistake :/
[02:34:00] <zeeshan> i accidently put the a and b phase 180 degrees apart physically
[02:34:01] <zeeshan> fak!
[02:35:18] <Crom_> mdf is crap for taking screws
[02:35:31] <zeeshan> mdf is terrible for a lot of things :P
[02:35:32] <Crom_> hehehe yep 180 out
[02:35:45] <zeeshan> fak, i really hope pcw has a solution
[02:35:54] <Crom_> time to shift B 60 degrees
[02:35:56] <zeeshan> that allows me to offset the wave
[02:36:05] <zeeshan> you mean 90
[02:36:25] <Crom_> what's the green line?
[02:36:30] <zeeshan> index pulse
[02:36:30] <Jymmm> MDF will actually thread on the sirface, you just can't go thru an edge.
[02:37:27] <Crom_> B will be on the index if you shift 90 degrees
[02:38:20] <Crom_> that's my problem to turn 90 degrees on MDF you have to go through an edge
[02:38:49] <Crom_> delrin will work much better
[02:40:13] <Crom_> crap now I have to get another end mill 3/32" for making holes a 1/8" screw will thread into
[02:44:02] <Crom_> hmm 1.77 each 5ea should do it for awhile $4 shipping ohwell
[02:45:06] <Crom_> http://www.ebay.com/itm/160675016894
[02:46:48] <Crom_> slightly used... good enough for delrin
[02:48:38] <Crom_> and got some proximaty sensors too
[02:50:23] <Crom_> http://www.ebay.com/itm/321600875748?_trksid=p2059210.m2749.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT
[02:50:59] <Crom_> 12mm head 4mm sense distance... Just have to put a lump of iron at the target
[02:51:24] <XXCoder> hey
[02:51:28] <XXCoder> what would it be used for>?
[02:52:57] <Crom_> I also have photo interruptors comming... iductives for home and phot's for limits
[02:54:17] <Crom_> Z limit is still gonna be photo
[02:54:33] <Crom_> err home
[02:55:48] <Crom_> newer 3040's the spindle mount is in one piece to the Z slide... makes it harder to swap out spindle mounts
[02:56:52] <Crom_> when I get mine running I guess I'll hack off the space's spindle mount and rig a new one which is tramable and changable
[02:57:34] <Crom_> then do the same to mine. Spindle,extruder, wood burner (Not laser)
[02:58:19] <Crom_> draw knife using 4axis to turn it for fabris cutting
[02:59:23] <Crom_> or push knife for cutting leather
[03:01:33] <Crom_> time to see how uniconverter works for converting CDR files to SVG
[03:05:16] <XXCoder> hope it works for you :) going to bed
[03:06:09] <Crom_> nite ntie
[03:07:13] <Crom_> doesn't
[03:07:32] <Crom_> doesn't like Corel 5,6, or 7 cdr's
[03:07:41] <Crom_> or maybe just my files
[03:10:39] <Crom_> ahhh it doesn't like corel draw 5 files
[03:19:58] <Crom_> hola balestrino
[03:25:17] <Crom_> nite nite
[06:28:43] <Loetmichel> mornin'
[06:34:04] <Loetmichel> *grrr* "nice" way to be waken on a saturday: stranger standing in the doorway saying "i bumped your car, sorry" :-( Why cant people learn to drive? just got the car thru the annual... now it has to go to the Garage again... someone backed up out his driveway and hit my car dead center... mirror broken off and door mangled... -> http://www.cyrom.org/palbum/main.php?g2_itemId=15642
[06:35:50] <micges> heh, it's nice that he even show up :)
[06:37:15] <malcom2073> Heh, typically here if that happened, they'd just leave, no note or anything
[06:37:21] <SpeedEvil> Hammer it all into a dent, remove all the paint, leadwork.
[06:39:02] <micges> malcom2073: here too
[06:40:50] <Loetmichel> SpeedEvil: i will do NOTHING there... his job to get a decent garage to do it right
[06:41:45] <archivist> girl reversed into van and broker her mirror this morning here, van did not care :)
[06:42:44] <archivist> she only passed her test a couple of weeks ago
[06:47:16] <jthornton> sounds like she failed the second test
[07:00:52] <archivist> I think you need a small accident when a new driver to knock some sense into you
[07:03:00] <jthornton> it took my daughter 3 times to get some driving sense
[07:04:25] <Loetmichel> jthornton: hmm, i have my licese now longer than 12 years. not a single accident that was on my head
[07:04:40] <Loetmichel> got bumped a few times but noting i was to accuse of
[07:06:48] <jthornton> I've had my license for 47 years and only got fooled once
[07:07:17] <jthornton> learned an important lesson, a turn signal does not mean they will turn
[07:07:51] <Loetmichel> turn signals are optional, didnt you learn that in drivers school? ;-)
[07:10:10] <jthornton> back then they didn't have drivers school LOL
[07:10:29] <Loetmichel> hrhr
[07:21:13] <jthornton> tjb1, http://folger-technologies-llc.myshopify.com/collections/frontpage/products/folger-tech-kossel-2020-full-3d-printer-kit
[07:58:53] <SpeedEvil> http://www.bunniestudios.com/blog/?p=4364
[08:04:54] <_methods> great way to get other people to solve your engineering problem for free
[08:05:12] <SpeedEvil> ?
[08:05:18] <_methods> bunnie
[08:05:42] <_methods> he's trying to get someone to solve his problem for free for him there
[08:06:29] <_methods> and crying about a $5000 vision solution is just hilarious in the comments
[08:07:04] <SpeedEvil> Err - his problem isn't zippers
[08:07:36] <SpeedEvil> It's the general issue of perceived value and how it screws up actual manufacturing
[08:10:15] <_methods> he was in the factory for a reason
[08:13:15] <_methods> if you have phd electrical engineer in your factory for no reason and don't use him to solve some process control issue, you might be an idiot
[08:13:27] <_methods> phd electrical engineer from MIT
[08:14:02] <SpeedEvil> That's assuming that he's willing to actually solve your problem for you
[08:15:44] <SpeedEvil> CV isn't quite insane - I would not expect a rasperry pi to be unable to solve it
[08:17:00] <_methods> even the cheap cv cams are expensive
[08:17:06] <_methods> but still
[08:18:15] <_methods> who knows
[08:19:37] <_methods> i just read that as a thinly veiled attempt to get some input on an engineering issue for free
[08:19:58] <_methods> i'm just a pessimist though lol
[08:27:32] <SpeedEvil> I was meaning actually using the Pi camera
[08:50:44] <tjb1> jthornton: no
[08:51:05] <tjb1> dont buy anything from folgertech
[08:53:36] <jthornton> ok
[08:53:56] <jthornton> crappy stuff or just poor service?
[08:55:22] <tjb1> both
[08:55:34] <jthornton> wow that's bad
[08:55:51] <tjb1> well their printer price is less than I paid for the linear rails on my kossel alone
[08:56:05] <tjb1> my linear rails were $130 each
[08:56:28] <tjb1> ok so $10 less but I don't think I can get the rest of the printer for $10
[08:56:39] <jthornton> I see them on fleabay for about $130 for a set of 3 linear rails
[08:56:53] <tjb1> mine are from Misumi
[08:56:59] <tjb1> Hiwin I think
[08:57:53] <jthornton> yea high dollar stuff
[08:58:10] <tjb1> I didnt pay $130
[08:58:15] <jthornton> can you build a Kossel with machined parts
[08:58:20] <tjb1> Misumi had a $150 free thing going on a long time ago
[09:16:27] <JT-Shop> tjb1, what is the print area on your Kossel?
[09:16:50] <tjb1> 165mm diameter
[09:16:53] <tjb1> 200mm height
[09:17:31] <Tom_itx> JT-Shop you decide on a design yet?
[09:18:00] <JT-Shop> well the Kossel with linear rails looks easy/fast to build
[09:19:47] <JT-Shop> the core xy is another consideration
[09:20:20] <tjb1> I dont know of any open CoreXY that would be machinable
[09:20:59] <Tom_itx> most of the machine parts look flat on it iirc
[09:21:15] <Tom_itx> mostly corner braces
[09:21:58] <JT-Shop> I've seen one core xy that was made from machined parts
[09:22:07] <JT-Shop> http://www.ebay.com/itm/Mini-Kossel-3D-Printer-Printed-Parts-ABS-or-PLA-Pick-Color-Carriage-Type-/121350145869?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&var=&hash=item1c4108474d
[09:23:37] <tjb1> heh thats funny
[09:24:40] <tjb1> Wonder if I should tell that guy
[09:24:56] <JT-Shop> what's that?
[09:24:56] <tjb1> If you read ebay item description - " Choose this if you would like to receive three additional parts for the pup style carriages found at http://www.thingiverse.com/thing:110283. Note: No V rollers are included and will need to be purchased separately. They can be purchased here.
[09:24:56] <tjb1> "
[09:25:19] <tjb1> now if you follow that thingiverse link
[09:25:27] <tjb1> Carriage for Kossel Mini (replaces ball rails) by brandonh is licensed under the Attribution - Non-Commercial - Share Alike license.
[09:25:36] <tjb1> Notice the non-commercial part
[09:30:35] <Tom_itx> is the reprap police gonna come bust you?
[09:31:04] <tjb1> No but kind of a douche move to link right to the file itself and it has a non-commercial license
[09:43:26] <fluffybitchx> suggestions for motor connectors? something that can handle 10A/phase.
[09:43:55] <fluffybitchx> I was going to use anderson powerpoles, rated for 30A, but they're not shielded...
[09:44:53] <cpresser> fluffybitchx: XLR might do
[09:46:15] <fluffybitchx> I don't know if they can reliably handle 10A... I know the ones used on wheelchair chargers have an annoying habit of melting.
[09:46:20] <archivist> direct wire for reliability
[09:48:27] <cpresser> fluffybitchx: the 3-pin version does 16Amp according to the datasheet
[09:48:40] <fluffybitchx> I thought about that, but it's not great for maintainability... especially since I have to dismantle the mill to easily move it.
[09:49:47] <cpresser> http://www.neutrik.de/de-de/xlr/dl-serie/nc4fd-l-b-1
[09:49:57] <cpresser> rated for 10A
[09:50:23] <SpeedEvil> You don't really need to shield the motor drive wires
[09:50:30] <SpeedEvil> if you shield the signal ones
[09:51:27] <pcw_home> twisting the wires (pair per step motor winding) reduces the radiated EMI
[09:51:44] <fluffybitchx> I'm shielding BOTH. belt and braces, etc.
[09:53:56] <marmite> a cool ferit could be cool to
[10:01:14] <_methods> those neutrik connectors look great i need to get some of those
[10:01:31] <_methods> their industrial connectors are pretty damn cool
[10:01:35] <JT-Shop> bbl
[10:02:03] * fluffybitchx looks for some military surplus cannon connectors
[10:04:06] <fluffybitchx> also not sure how I want to mount my drives... I'm tempted to bend some 1/4" aluminum plate at a 45 degree angle and mount them on that. much more compact than mounting them flat, but still gives access to all the screw terminals.
[10:05:17] <fluffybitchx> or I could just use xlr and assume it won't melt.
[10:06:26] <SpeedEvil> It's really hard to melt air.
[10:06:28] <SpeedEvil> err
[10:06:29] <SpeedEvil> nvm
[10:07:36] <fluffybitchx> ... lol
[10:08:26] * cpresser is happy with XLR. but my steppers only have 6Amp.
[10:08:28] <fluffybitchx> I guess the advantage of xlr would be I can get compatible plugs anywhere, rather than something odd which would have to be tracked down.
[10:08:45] <cpresser> yep, they are easy to source
[10:08:55] <fluffybitchx> plus I probably have a dozen of them in a box somewhere...
[10:09:03] <archivist> compatible does not mean 10a capable
[10:09:31] <fluffybitchx> although I think I only have 3 and 5 pin, no 4 pin.
[10:09:40] <archivist> they were designed for audio
[10:10:57] <fluffybitchx> grrrr. searching on ebay is now annoyingly difficult thanks to their new "feature" of hiding the item description.
[10:12:29] <fluffybitchx> I probably should use 5-pin xlr instead of 4-pin, and just not use a pin, due to their much wider availability.
[10:13:59] <fluffybitchx> I'd need to find some lower profile plugs than the ones I have, which stick out about 4", and are just begging to be broken off.
[10:15:14] <_methods> http://www.ebay.com/itm/AC-250V-10A-19mm-Dia-Thread-5-Pins-Metal-Aviation-Male-Female-Plug-Connector-/311221860936
[10:15:56] <fluffybitchx> http://www.ebay.com/itm/5-Pin-XLR-Audio-M-F-Chassis-Connector-CNC-Unipolar-Stepper-Motor-Connectors-/281469840209 seller claims they're for cnc, but look more like chinese cb radio plugs to me. heh.
[10:16:52] <fluffybitchx> heh, I think that's the same connector... just $7 from china vs $4 from the US. lol
[10:17:23] <archivist> those are CB mic connectors
[10:19:07] <fluffybitchx> the listing claims they're xlr...
[10:19:16] <fluffybitchx> but, as I said, they look like cb plugs. heh.
[10:19:35] <archivist> not xlr at all
[10:20:05] <Tom_itx> yeah, i'm using those on my steppers but they're not 10A
[10:20:31] <_methods> hah yeah i think it is but they wrote 10A on it lol
[10:20:44] <archivist> lies
[10:20:51] <Tom_itx> they'll take 10A
[10:20:54] <Tom_itx> until they melt
[10:20:58] <_methods> just a translation error lol
[10:21:07] <_methods> not lies round eye
[10:21:14] <Tom_itx> actually the plastic looks like bakelite to me
[10:21:22] <Tom_itx> or some other hard plastic
[10:22:54] <archivist> current rating is based on the grip of the tube around the pin, a UK magazine had a nice article on contact pressure of connectors
[10:23:06] <fluffybitchx> http://www.ebay.com/itm/Workman-C5-5-Pin-Female-Microphone-Plug-Ham-Radio-CB-Mic-C-5-/121377893542 there's the same plug, honestly advertised.
[10:23:40] <Tom_itx> i get mine from 2 to 8 pin locally
[10:24:12] <fluffybitchx> no local plugs here except radio shack, and all they sell is XLR. (and, according to the staff there, in a month they won't exist)
[10:24:51] <Tom_itx> we have several closing but 3 are staying. with that said, they don't carry anything anymore
[10:25:54] <_methods> kinda sad they could have been like digikey or mouser with actual brick and mortar locations
[10:26:09] <fluffybitchx> the one here says they're being auctioned off, and after the auction, they're very unlikely to still resemble a radioshack.
[10:26:17] <_methods> they already had all the necessary distribution infrastructure
[10:26:40] <_methods> but instead they choose to sell airhogs and shitty car stereos
[10:27:20] <_methods> that's what happens when you put some douche with an MBA in charge of something that should have been run by an EE
[10:28:19] <fluffybitchx> ... you do realize the market for electronic components is pretty small, right?
[10:28:28] <fluffybitchx> (at retail locations)
[10:30:43] <fluffybitchx> http://www.ebay.com/itm/5pcs-Aviation-Plug-Male-Female-Wire-Panel-Metal-Connector-16mm-5-pin-GX16-5-M46-/400862081196 too bad those probably can't handle the current, despite being advertised as "aviation plugs" to make them sound fancier than "cb mic plugs".
[10:35:09] <_methods> http://www.ebay.com/itm/Gray-PG21-28mm-Thread-Metal-Shell-for-Industrial-Cable-Connector-/321639685624
[10:36:00] <fluffybitchx> that's one way to make sure they're waterproof.
[10:36:37] <_methods> heheh
[10:40:01] <fluffybitchx> http://www.ebay.com/itm/5-PIN-125-A-850V-CABLE-CABLE-MILITARY-ELECTRICAL-CONNECTOR-AMPHENOL-CANON-ANALOG-/271518724822 that shouldn't melt,
[10:41:03] <jdh> Made in the USSR
[10:41:43] <fluffybitchx> meaning I can use them as a hammer and they'll keep working.
[10:42:51] <fluffybitchx> unfortunately, those fail the "I'll be able to easily get more of them in the future" test. they're probably also a tad overkill. :)
[10:45:37] <fluffybitchx> I could also just use the anderson powerpoles that I already own... I only have 4 pin and 8 pin though, so I'd probably end up using the 4 pin ones, and a .250 disconnect terminal off to the side for the shield, which is a bit ugly...
[10:46:50] <fluffybitchx> what's with all the russian surplus being sold from bulgaria?
[10:50:39] <_methods> no idea
[10:50:50] <_methods> how many connectors you need?
[10:50:56] <_methods> just for 3 axis
[10:52:09] <fluffybitchx> I have 3.5ish axis (4th is missing parts) right now, but want 5 pairs, in case I ever decided to add a 5th axis.
[10:58:39] <fluffybitchx> for a 4th right now I have my little sherline rotary table and most of the parts to install it... I want to get a big rotary table, which I could then mount my little table to if I ever wanted 5 axis.
[11:02:56] <fluffybitchx> http://www.ebay.com/itm/16mm-Thread-4Pin-Male-Female-Cable-Connector-Aviation-Plug-AC-250V-15A-/321513621916 hong kong claims those "aviation" plugs are rated 15A, but I really don't know if I want a cb mic plug at those currents, especially one from china.
[11:06:23] * fluffybitchx wasn't expecting this to be so difficult
[11:07:19] <_methods> connectors are an eternal pain in the ass
[11:08:38] <fluffybitchx> for limit switches I'm just going to use cheapo molex, because there's no current...
[11:09:49] <fluffybitchx> is the shield on xlr connectors reliable?
[11:11:19] <fluffybitchx> argh, and google is full of reprap and arduino crap.
[11:12:11] <fluffybitchx> seriously. there's forum threads on using USB connectors for steppers.
[11:12:49] <XXCoder> molex is good and old standard
[11:13:11] <XXCoder> but what about cat5 patch
[11:13:19] <XXCoder> cheap and everywhere
[11:13:29] <fluffybitchx> not designed for flexxing.
[11:13:34] <XXCoder> and made to send signal long distance
[11:13:38] <XXCoder> thats why I said patch
[11:14:00] <fluffybitchx> I plan on using proper control cable. heh.
[11:15:49] <XXCoder> cool :)
[11:15:50] <fluffybitchx> I can't find low profile nor right-angle xlr connectors... and really don't want my cables sticking 5" out the back of the machine.
[11:16:20] <XXCoder> cant be hacked to turn 9 degrees?
[11:16:33] <XXCoder> er 90
[11:17:43] <fluffybitchx> looking at commercial products, they all have stupid connectors too... like db9!
[11:18:18] <XXCoder> old standard
[11:18:29] <fluffybitchx> not my first choice for a power connector
[11:18:45] <_methods> db9 will do up to 7.5a per connector
[11:19:06] <_methods> at least reputable db9 connectors
[11:19:28] <fluffybitchx> that's... surprising. they're tiny pins.
[11:19:36] <_methods> yeah check the datasheet
[11:19:37] <CaptHindsight> those 4pin connectors from HK have big pins
[11:20:03] <_methods> i mean obviously diff manufacturers will have diff ampacity specs
[11:20:07] <CaptHindsight> they come with most of the cheap routers from China
[11:20:13] <_methods> if in doubt read the datasheet though
[11:20:16] <fluffybitchx> CaptHindsight: which ones?
[11:20:28] <fluffybitchx> _methods: there's a distinct lack of datasheets from most vendors.
[11:20:28] <CaptHindsight> your ebay link ^^
[11:20:40] <fluffybitchx> yes, which ebay link? I've pasted a half dozen or so. lol
[11:20:53] <CaptHindsight> http://www.ebay.com/itm/16mm-Thread-4Pin-Male-Female-Cable-Connector-Aviation-Plug-AC-250V-15A-/321513621916
[11:21:14] <_methods> if the vendor doesn't have a datasheet and you're that worried about specifications i suggest purchasing from a vendor that does provide datasheets for their products lol
[11:21:53] <fluffybitchx> _methods: I also have to consider the datasheet of my wallet...
[11:22:07] <_methods> that is the most important datasheet
[11:22:26] <CaptHindsight> http://www.automationtechnologiesinc.com/products-page/cnc-parts/4-conductor-18ga-shielded-motor-wires-duplicate
[11:23:03] <_methods> i just buy the chinese trash and if i smoke it, i smoke it
[11:23:11] <_methods> if it lives i celebrate
[11:23:36] <fluffybitchx> if it smokes the driver too, I'll be rather annoyed.
[11:23:39] <XXCoder> so you grind chinese crap that released magic smoke to powder and smoke it? but magic smokes gone! ;)
[11:24:05] <_methods> if i'm going the china route i always buy extras to accomodate for failure hehe
[11:24:15] <CaptHindsight> http://www.automationtechnologiesinc.com/products-page/cnc-parts/z-axis-slider http://www.automationtechnologiesinc.com/products-page/cnc-parts/z-axis-slider-with-nema17-motor
[11:24:18] <fluffybitchx> CaptHindsight: that seems remarkably lacking specs
[11:24:31] <CaptHindsight> he's starting to carry cheapo positioners
[11:24:33] <XXCoder> barely has discription
[11:24:53] <_methods> wow $250 for that
[11:24:58] <CaptHindsight> those are the exact connectors on all those routers
[11:24:59] <fluffybitchx> $239 isn't cheapo.
[11:25:11] <fluffybitchx> nema17 is tiny
[11:25:44] <XXCoder> all steel
[11:25:55] <_methods> $5 worth of alum
[11:25:58] <XXCoder> fasteners so son
[11:26:02] <XXCoder> *on
[11:26:03] <CaptHindsight> what do you call my $7k linear servo positioners then? otherworldly?
[11:26:07] <_methods> $2 worth of bearings lol
[11:26:10] <_methods> allthread
[11:26:38] <CaptHindsight> but those come pre-assembeled
[11:26:46] <XXCoder> _methods: where do you find 3/8 alum for $5
[11:26:57] <_methods> when you buys 5'x10' sheets
[11:27:05] <_methods> that's $5 alum lol
[11:27:08] <CaptHindsight> http://www.automationtechnologiesinc.com/products-page/cnc-parts/non-contact-height-sensor-for-plasma-and-oxy-fuel-cutter
[11:27:52] <fluffybitchx> non-contact sensing next to a plasma arc sounds fun.
[11:28:16] <XXCoder> its apparently designed for oplasma
[11:28:36] <_methods> oh is that so you don't have to attach to your torch nozzle?
[11:29:08] <CaptHindsight> http://www.automationtechnologiesinc.com/products-page/cnc-router/kl6060-desktop-cnc-router-with-3-stepper-motors-2 most of the routers from China this size and smaller use those 4pin connectors
[11:29:51] <XXCoder> interesting http://www.automationtechnologiesinc.com/products-page/cnc-router/cnc-mogul-machine
[11:30:19] <CaptHindsight> junk ^^^
[11:30:39] <XXCoder> its not like I plan to mill alum
[11:30:50] <_methods> lol $700 shapeoko
[11:30:54] <fluffybitchx> CaptHindsight: yes, and it even says it's using 3A steppers. mine are 9A.
[11:31:29] <XXCoder> only 899 damn
[11:31:55] <XXCoder> bet sh price would be bomb
[11:32:30] <JT-Shop> tjb1, what is the approximate height and length of the sides on your Kossel?
[11:32:40] <XXCoder> We will charge the actual shipping fee because the website can not calculate
[11:32:40] <XXCoder> We will send you a paypal request for shipping fee difference
[11:33:48] <_methods> their ballscrew prices............. holy butt rape batman
[11:34:01] <tjb1> JT-Shop: http://reprap.org/wiki/Kossel#Frame
[11:35:15] <JT-Shop> thanks
[11:35:25] <tjb1> That what you were looking for?
[11:35:57] <JT-Shop> yes, I have some ideas to make one with machined and bent parts
[11:35:58] <tjb1> https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1n05h8vYt7vVCxykiwOTbhR15M-12FNgO20INvxqPDqA/edit#gid=0
[11:36:02] <tjb1> I dont know if you can edit that
[11:36:28] <CaptHindsight> Neutrik rates their 4pin XLR's at 10A per contact, the Chinese copies have the same size pins
[11:36:58] <JT-Shop> wants me to sign in :(
[11:37:09] <tjb1> I dont know how it works
[11:37:15] <tjb1> so might not be worth your time
[11:37:31] <XXCoder> tjb1: you own it? if so could assign to public
[11:37:34] <tjb1> oh they are the same
[11:37:34] <JT-Shop> what is it?
[11:37:49] <XXCoder> it says it need permission
[11:38:00] <XXCoder> didnt click request permission
[11:38:02] <tjb1> it tells you printable area and length of diagonal arms for given delta size
[11:38:57] <tjb1> JT-Shop: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1Jw02GHibihqNCRuzcNRW-aT275r1lwrrf0F7Yf4plRE/edit?usp=sharing
[11:40:50] <JT-Shop> thanks
[11:41:50] <XXCoder> http://www.cncrouterparts.com/crp4896-4-x-8-cnc-router-kit-p-139.html
[11:42:41] <_methods> yeah i kinda like their kits
[11:42:55] <_methods> i'm going to copy theirs except i'm going to use linear ways
[11:43:01] <tjb1> built my plasma using their linear bearing things
[11:43:01] <JT-Shop> it's colder inside than outside...
[11:43:09] * JT-Shop goes to open the shop doors
[11:43:13] <XXCoder> due to your heat JT-Shop ;)
[11:43:19] <XXCoder> er heart
[11:43:44] <fluffybitchx> I've been thinking of making a very cheap 4x8 setup using stainless steel cable for the drive...
[11:43:46] <tjb1> holy cow, its 22F here
[11:43:51] <fluffybitchx> and standard angle iron for the rails
[11:44:00] <_methods> i'll be building my plasma based on thier design with hiwin linear ways
[11:44:22] <JT-Shop> it says it it 47F here but feels a lot warmer out in the sun
[11:44:23] <fluffybitchx> of course, I still don't know if my plasma cutter even works. lol
[11:44:52] <CaptHindsight> 7F, back to -10F again tonight
[11:45:12] <XXCoder> check this out - (warning, billion pictures!) http://www.overclock.net/t/755828/complete-2-x-3-custom-cnc-router-from-80-20-aluminum-extrusion
[11:45:13] <CaptHindsight> can't wait for spring again this year
[11:45:48] <tjb1> XXCoder: that has to be expensive
[11:45:53] <fluffybitchx> aluminum extrusions are shiny and all, but I think for a plasma table, I'll be perfectly happy welding together some scrapyard angle iron.
[11:46:10] <XXCoder> not too bad actually I think it cost bit over $1500 for everything
[11:46:13] <tjb1> https://home.comcast.net/~jpzavodny/IMG_4294.JPG
[11:46:20] <tjb1> was that done by hand?
[11:46:49] <XXCoder> pin bearing? dont think so
[11:46:58] <tjb1> the shaft looks like it was ground by hand
[11:47:03] <CaptHindsight> hand carved screw ends
[11:47:18] <CaptHindsight> very maker
[11:47:39] <tjb1> XXCoder: https://scontent-ord.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xfp1/v/t1.0-9/292758_4571163473108_347027539_n.jpg?oh=f8e5a42d823d94ebed5bde0cd831d635&oe=55963DA6
[11:47:49] <fluffybitchx> I even have a design in my head for a constant length cable pulley system, to ensure accurate positioning... well, when accurate is defined in fractions of an inch, not thous.
[11:48:55] <XXCoder> tjb1: one thing I love about that project is that it is very detailed
[11:49:00] <CaptHindsight> holy cam bearings https://home.comcast.net/~jpzavodny/IMG_4419.JPG
[11:49:22] <fluffybitchx> bbl, time to go looking for yard sales.
[11:49:27] <XXCoder> have fun
[11:49:38] <tjb1> I built 7 of those
[11:49:43] <tjb1> bearing blocks that is
[11:49:49] <tjb1> will just buy them next time
[11:50:00] <tjb1> very tedious on a bridgeport
[11:50:21] <CaptHindsight> I've never seen so many carriage bolts used in a design
[11:50:39] <XXCoder> rigid thats for sure
[11:50:43] <fluffybitchx> too fancy. I'm going to use V-grooved wheels riding on upwards (like ^) facing angle iron, held together with gravity, moved by steel cable. heh.
[11:50:43] <CaptHindsight> yes for $10ea
[11:50:54] <tjb1> CaptHindsight: Have you ever priced the t-slot bolts?
[11:51:02] <XXCoder> carrage bolts $10 each?
[11:51:13] <XXCoder> can you link picture of carrage bolt
[11:51:32] <CaptHindsight> $10 ea for the bearing blocks
[11:51:45] <XXCoder> oh
[11:51:47] <CaptHindsight> carriage bolts are $10 at Ace hardware :)
[11:52:01] <XXCoder> "Ace" hardware ;)
[11:52:12] <tjb1> CaptHindsight: The ones I was using were $35 a piece I think
[11:52:28] <tjb1> http://www.cncrouterparts.com/extended-linear-carriage-with-abec-7-bearings-p-35.html
[11:52:34] <tjb1> little ones are $25
[11:52:39] <CaptHindsight> tjb1: he could have saved money by using hex socket screws and the the economy t-slot nuts
[11:53:01] <tjb1> That's a pain on the rail used for linear motion
[11:53:11] <tjb1> with the screws protruding you can at least line them all up
[11:53:11] <CaptHindsight> carriage bolts + nylon locknuts are not the most economical combo
[11:53:44] <XXCoder> if you guys dont wanna buy stuff
[11:53:46] <XXCoder> https://www.finelineautomation.com/products/complete-2-x3-router-kit would do
[11:53:56] <XXCoder> sale price now apparently
[11:54:45] <tjb1> https://fbcdn-sphotos-b-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-xfa1/v/t1.0-9/530587_4469490131338_930172937_n.jpg?oh=eeb6d1424d244c4d68d76dfb96d60c02&oe=554DCCD1&__gda__=1435122457_fef9fd532694c54888fdb8265a4ccd49
[11:54:51] <XXCoder> 4x8 version https://www.finelineautomation.com/products/4-x-8-cnc-router
[11:55:11] <tjb1> too bad those prox sensors are garbage
[11:55:23] <CaptHindsight> https://home.comcast.net/~jpzavodny/IMG_4409.JPG he didn't square the aluminum used as the linear bearing
[11:55:34] <XXCoder> really bad review on 4x8 version
[11:55:51] <tjb1> why would he use aluminum as the linear rail?
[11:55:54] <tjb1> that's dumb
[11:56:02] <zeeshan> lol
[11:56:27] <tjb1> guess it will be hard faced when the bearings pack all the chips in
[11:56:50] <XXCoder> CaptHindsight: hmm youre right, never noticed. I first read it before I worked as machinist
[11:56:51] <zeeshan> let the ME's design !
[11:56:59] <XXCoder> I definitely would square it off
[11:57:00] <CaptHindsight> just a wood router anyway, he could have replaced most of the t-slot with mdf and plywood
[11:57:13] <XXCoder> and use steel
[11:57:28] <XXCoder> of course thats assuming I has machines for both of those.. lol
[11:57:36] <XXCoder> being poor sucks lol
[11:57:52] <XXCoder> Im been working on Sharp mill machine, interesting machine
[11:57:55] <zeeshan> im poor right now!
[11:57:59] * zeeshan needs next pay cheque
[11:57:59] <CaptHindsight> what was his BOM? >$1k
[11:58:27] <XXCoder> assuming that kit is priced fairly, 1,599
[11:58:31] <XXCoder> no electrics
[11:58:56] <CaptHindsight> http://www.ebay.com/itm/370770474504 $1150
[11:59:02] <XXCoder> You better look out.... Go ahead and buy you a saddle because you are fixing to go on a donkey ride.
[11:59:09] <XXCoder> part of that 4'x8' nasty review
[11:59:14] <zeeshan> pcw_home: is there anyway to shift input b by 90 degrees through software? i accidently placed my sensors 180 degrees apart :( http://i.imgur.com/XpsuNRD.png
[11:59:58] <CaptHindsight> http://www.ebay.com/itm/144-x-48-cnc-router-or-possible-plasma-conversion/271675811549
[12:00:09] <archivist> so move one sensor
[12:00:18] <XXCoder> its also way too big for rent home lol
[12:00:21] <zeeshan> archivist: its hard
[12:00:25] <zeeshan> im using tapped holes
[12:00:34] <CaptHindsight> 15 hp Perske spindle router motor and vfd drive components are still installed.
[12:00:38] <zeeshan> id have to remake the bracket
[12:00:43] <archivist> should be adjustable to get it right
[12:00:46] <XXCoder> and considering its size its basically billion miles away for me lol
[12:00:48] <CaptHindsight> Pacific Scientific SC320 X and Y drives, and servo motors are still installed.
[12:00:51] <zeeshan> archivist: i precision machined it
[12:00:52] <zeeshan> lol
[12:00:58] <zeeshan> thats why its exactly 180 apart :P
[12:01:11] <zeeshan> i looked at my cad model
[12:01:16] <zeeshan> and i really did put them 180 apart for some reason
[12:01:24] <zeeshan> :(
[12:01:28] <XXCoder> http://www.ebay.com/itm/Cnc-Router-Machine-Kit-4-x-4-x-8-/291183314407?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item43cbe0c5e7
[12:01:31] <archivist> that is not exactly 180 anyway
[12:01:35] <XXCoder> CaptHindsight: wgat ya think
[12:01:41] <zeeshan> its not?
[12:01:53] <XXCoder> zee its never perfect
[12:02:00] <CaptHindsight> 2 hour drive for me
[12:02:04] <zeeshan> its pretty close! :P
[12:02:08] <XXCoder> days for me
[12:02:19] <zeeshan> as it ramps down it ramps up
[12:02:22] <zeeshan> on the other wave
[12:02:37] <zeeshan> i think there is an issue with the trigger wheel
[12:02:38] <archivist> look at the other edge too
[12:02:42] <zeeshan> cause one of the wave is messed
[12:03:12] <CaptHindsight> not ideal for milling laptop cases, but will come on handy someday
[12:03:18] <zeeshan> archivist: how close to 90 degrees does it need to be?
[12:03:20] <CaptHindsight> on/in
[12:03:32] <zeeshan> would 85 degrees be okay? :P
[12:03:54] <XXCoder> I wish I know someone near here with 4'x8' router cnc so I can borrow it to make my cnc parts'
[12:04:02] <zeeshan> http://c4.staticflickr.com/8/7345/16325356779_d0f0ceed37_h.jpg
[12:04:13] <zeeshan> how to make adjustable? :P
[12:04:25] <zeeshan> its adjustable in and out
[12:04:27] <CaptHindsight> XXCoder: I find so many good deal on great old machines that I rarely buy anything new
[12:04:33] <zeeshan> but not each sensor
[12:04:46] <XXCoder> capt yeah good location there. here not so much
[12:05:07] <XXCoder> better deal http://www.ebay.com/itm/Z-Axis-Linear-Motion-Slide-CNC-Router-3D-Print-Plasma-Optics-5-Fast-Travel-1-4-/161600950636?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item25a02ad16c
[12:05:07] <CaptHindsight> XXCoder: compare the design of the 144" x 48" to the one you posted
[12:05:33] <XXCoder> yeah its kinda similiar
[12:05:51] <CaptHindsight> I guess you don't see the differences yet
[12:05:59] <XXCoder> guess so lol
[12:06:02] <archivist> zeeshan, pretty close, file the opto mounting holes
[12:06:17] <CaptHindsight> after you build a few you'll see
[12:06:24] <zeeshan> whats pretty close
[12:06:32] <zeeshan> i couldnt find info on the tolerance online either :(
[12:06:42] <XXCoder> yeah experence is best teacher of all
[12:06:45] <archivist> some expect exact ish
[12:06:53] <zeeshan> but we know it can never be exact
[12:06:54] <pcw_home> zeeshan: have to move the sensors (move both a bit)
[12:07:43] <pcw_home> 45 degrees each is only 1/4 a slot width each
[12:07:54] <zeeshan> yea i didnt think of filing the holes
[12:07:56] <zeeshan> thank you archivist
[12:08:15] <zeeshan> that wave that is shorter pulse width
[12:08:20] <zeeshan> that is something up with my trigger wheel?
[12:08:23] <XXCoder> any in here expert with table saw? I gonna figure how to make fence parallel with saw
[12:08:32] <archivist> clean the slot is it deep enough
[12:08:45] <_methods> XXCoder: adjust your clamp
[12:08:53] <zeeshan> tht taper
[12:08:53] <_methods> most fences have adj screws
[12:08:56] <zeeshan> is cause of that stupid water jet
[12:09:05] <zeeshan> these bastards for some reason always gave me tapered cut shit
[12:09:08] <XXCoder> _methods: looks like handle?
[12:09:14] <_methods> ?
[12:09:22] <_methods> how is your fence attached?
[12:09:42] <jdh> a and b are looking at different slots though. Why are they both the same
[12:09:46] <XXCoder> hold on looking]
[12:09:58] <zeeshan> jdh good point
[12:10:13] <zeeshan> i did realize i didnt have my shield grounded at this point
[12:10:20] <zeeshan> which i fixed after this , i will readjust sensors and replot
[12:10:24] <tjb1> https://www.dropbox.com/s/txbwp08osao0jy0/FLIR0103.jpg?dl=0
[12:10:28] <tjb1> connector doesnt like 10 amps
[12:10:35] <zeeshan> tjb1: flir~!
[12:10:36] <zeeshan> :)
[12:10:47] <jdh> surely the sensor clearance holes have enough slop to tilt them both in or out a bit
[12:10:50] <zeeshan> what connector is that?
[12:11:00] <zeeshan> jdh: no lol
[12:11:03] <tjb1> 2.1 plug thing
[12:11:25] <zeeshan> im gonna take my hand drill bit tool
[12:11:31] <zeeshan> and drill em slightly oversize
[12:11:49] <tjb1> http://www.radioshack.com/size-m-panel-mount-coaxial-dc-power-jack/2741563.html#.VN-LCS6YV0w
[12:12:02] <jdh> and why didn't you use pan head SHCS
[12:13:45] <zeeshan> =D
[12:13:47] <tjb1> 35c too hot for a connector?
[12:14:48] <zeeshan> i wouldn't thinkso
[12:15:27] <tjb1> it peaks at around 55c during heat up
[12:15:42] <zeeshan> what is it made out of
[12:15:51] <tjb1> which?
[12:16:58] <zeeshan> the inner portion of the connector
[12:17:44] <XXCoder> _methods: it has a knob but its for adjusting handle tightness when down and locked
[12:17:56] <XXCoder> no other knob for adjustment from what I see
[12:17:58] <tjb1> this power supply is annoying when in use
[12:18:02] <tjb1> cracking sound
[12:18:10] <tjb1> crackling?
[12:19:17] <tjb1> zeeshan: https://www.dropbox.com/s/zx19gujumxynfw4/2015-02-14%2012.57.00.jpg?dl=0
[12:19:44] <zeeshan> hm
[12:20:00] <zeeshan> the question is what is that black insulator :P
[12:20:24] <zeeshan> even the crapiest conductor is rated for 60C operation
[12:20:48] <zeeshan> 55c and 60c isn't enough a safety factor :P
[12:21:42] <_methods> XXCoder: there are usually 2 screws on the flat part that set against the table that the clamp presses against
[12:21:58] <_methods> and you adjust those to correct fence alignment
[12:22:04] <tjb1> zeeshan: now how to stop the buzzing noise
[12:22:18] <_methods> is this one of those teeny tiny table saws?
[12:22:21] <zeeshan> buzzing sound is likely a crappy transformer
[12:22:51] <XXCoder> okay making sure that I used right word - "fence" is the strip of metal that wood slide on in order to make cut stright
[12:23:02] <XXCoder> theres other item that pushes wood part
[12:23:16] <_methods> that's a kickback guard
[12:23:25] <_methods> well should be
[12:23:34] <_methods> i remove those as soon as i get a saw lol
[12:23:37] <XXCoder> kickback guard is thin strip being saw
[12:23:39] <tjb1> zeeshan: this is the only power supply like this I could find that can supply 10amp at 12v
[12:23:41] <XXCoder> *behind
[12:23:42] <tjb1> probably why...
[12:23:54] <XXCoder> it keeps cut wood away from saw
[12:24:04] <_methods> hmm i have no idea what that is then
[12:24:33] <_methods> well some cheap saws will have no way to adjust the fence to cut square
[12:24:37] <XXCoder> nice http://www.rockler.com/how-to/table-terminology/
[12:24:51] <XXCoder> and yeah fence is correct :)
[12:24:58] <XXCoder> yeah el cheapo saw here
[12:25:06] <zeeshan> meanwell's s-150
[12:25:08] <zeeshan> does 12.5A
[12:25:09] <XXCoder> probably will make jig something
[12:25:12] <_methods> ah you may be screwed then
[12:26:24] <XXCoder> yeah quite crappy table saw lol
[12:26:42] <XXCoder> jigs will help
[12:27:07] <tjb1> zeeshan: trying to stay with the barrel jacks for this printer
[12:27:14] <XXCoder> https://woodgears.ca/delta_saw/sled.html
[12:27:14] <tjb1> dont have eanywhere to mount that thing
[12:27:34] <tjb1> superglue on transformer bad?
[12:28:44] <_methods> yes a crosscut sled is good for making sure you're square
[12:28:57] <XXCoder> small version https://woodgears.ca/delta_saw/small_sled.html
[12:29:01] <_methods> but you can only rip the sleds length
[12:29:18] <XXCoder> not quite, the large one is shown cutting 8 feet long board
[12:29:35] <_methods> yes crosscutting
[12:29:46] <zeeshan> tjb1: you can't really fix it
[12:29:52] <zeeshan> unless you take the transformer apart and rewind it :P
[12:29:58] <XXCoder> gonna figure how to build it though, because fence sucks
[12:30:14] <zeeshan> the windings are likely vibrating with each other
[12:30:18] <XXCoder> its more accurate to have sled then build cnc parts with it
[12:30:32] <_methods> http://www.deltamachinery.com/accessories/biesemeyer
[12:31:08] <zeeshan> try superglue! :P
[12:32:12] <tjb1> really?
[12:34:46] <tjb1> um
[12:34:52] <tjb1> i dont think I can get to the transformer
[12:35:53] <tjb1> https://www.dropbox.com/s/1mb6zotr2ao1ue9/2015-02-14%2013.14.21.jpg?dl=0
[12:44:49] <tjb1> Emailed seller, see what they say
[12:44:57] <tjb1> Might tear it down and put in new transformer
[12:51:29] <zeeshan-mill> hm
[12:54:22] <zeeshan-mill> anyway to invert signal a and B?
[12:54:39] <zeeshan-mill> i noticed when the led's are on , linuxcnc sees off
[12:54:48] <zeeshan-mill> and when theyre off, it sees on.
[12:57:42] <Tom_itx> hm2 encoder?
[12:57:46] <zeeshan-mill> yes
[12:58:06] <Tom_itx> you can invert the index
[12:58:10] <Tom_itx> not that that will help
[12:58:35] <Tom_itx> what about counter-mode?
[12:58:56] <zeeshan-mill> counter mode changes from quadrature to signle input
[12:59:14] <zeeshan-mill> i really dont see anyway to invert a and b
[12:59:24] <Tom_itx> invert the leds
[12:59:26] <zeeshan-mill> lol
[12:59:39] <Tom_itx> :)
[12:59:51] <zeeshan-mill> ill just work with blocked condiiton as
[12:59:54] <zeeshan-mill> on
[12:59:59] <zeeshan-mill> and remember its opposite at led
[13:00:27] <Tom_itx> what's the led hooked to?
[13:03:40] <Smidge204> Hiya
[13:03:54] <CaptHindsight> zeeshan: don't want http://phys.org/news/2015-02-apple-electric-car.html
[13:04:34] <Smidge204> Are there any recommendations for lightweight but free software packages for generating gcode for engraving?
[13:04:48] <Tom_itx> CaptHindsight, they gotta keep up with google
[13:05:14] <CaptHindsight> Smidge204: http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?Simple_LinuxCNC_G-Code_Generators
[13:06:02] <CaptHindsight> http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?back=GcodeGenerator
[13:06:43] <Smidge204> Hmm DXF2GCode looks very promising...
[13:06:49] <Smidge204> Thanks, I'll investigate
[13:20:26] * adb had an electric car already ..citroen berlingo-electric
[13:22:04] <Smidge204> Great, Apple branded vehicles. And I thought BMW drivers were douchebags...
[13:25:16] <_methods> hahah
[13:31:20] <zeeshan-mill> man i really need to invert these
[13:31:33] <zeeshan-mill> !
[13:32:04] <zeeshan-mill> the on state that i want is longer
[13:32:05] <zeeshan-mill> than the off state
[13:34:12] <zeeshan-mill> pcw_home, can i wire to /A /B /INDX
[13:34:17] <zeeshan-mill> to invert
[13:34:20] <zeeshan-mill> i mean /A /B
[13:34:23] <zeeshan-mill> index is fine
[13:35:15] <pcw_home> Only if you have differential (line driver) outputs available (you swap pins to change polarity)
[13:35:37] <zeeshan-mill> i dont have differential output
[13:35:58] <zeeshan-mill> is there no way to invert it in the software
[13:36:38] <pcw_home> Theres typically no need to invert
[13:36:41] <zeeshan-mill> http://i.imgur.com/XpsuNRD.png
[13:36:47] <zeeshan-mill> you can see my off state is longer
[13:36:49] <zeeshan-mill> than my on state
[13:37:07] <pcw_home> inversion wont help that
[13:37:11] <zeeshan-mill> oh
[13:37:27] <zeeshan-mill> i really dont know why im getting varying pulse widths
[13:37:31] <zeeshan-mill> the wheel looks clean and fine
[13:37:43] <pcw_home> they should be as symmetrical as possible
[13:38:24] <pcw_home> it has to do with the threshold of the light reciever
[13:39:04] <pcw_home> the light intensity will be roughly sinusoidal
[13:39:49] <pcw_home> depending on the receiver threshold you can get <50% or >50% duty cycle
[13:40:17] <zeeshan-mill> my physical wheel has a longer on period
[13:40:17] <zeeshan-mill> than off
[13:40:28] <zeeshan-mill> when light passes through = on
[13:40:35] <zeeshan-mill> but its inverted in linuxcnc
[13:40:46] <zeeshan-mill> but i guess youre saying that wont change anything
[13:40:50] <zeeshan-mill> i shoulda made my wheel symmetric to begin with
[13:41:15] <CaptHindsight> do they sense the reflections off each tooth or do the teeth block the light?
[13:41:17] <pcw_home> can you change the LED current?
[13:41:57] <pcw_home> (That is, is it set by a resistor you can change?)
[13:42:16] <_methods> great idea
[13:42:33] <_methods> that's why pcw_home gets paid the big $$$
[13:42:47] <pcw_home> Ha!
[13:42:50] <zeeshan-mill> lol
[13:43:02] <zeeshan-mill> CaptHindsight, the teeth block light
[13:43:17] <zeeshan-mill> pcw_home, it takes 5v - 24v input
[13:43:31] <zeeshan-mill> i didnt see a mention of that effecting light intensity
[13:43:32] <zeeshan-mill> it prolly does
[13:43:43] <zeeshan-mill> but encoders only output 5v
[13:43:57] <CaptHindsight> try painting the teeth flat black as well
[13:43:57] <_methods> you could use something like an arduino to pwm the led
[13:44:29] <_methods> kludge but you could still test it out and get it working
[13:44:33] <pcw_home> you might experiment with a filter
[13:46:03] <pcw_home> either a pinhole in a piece of foil or a bit of paper
[13:46:20] <zeeshan-mill> filter where?
[13:46:34] <pcw_home> in front of the LED
[13:47:04] <zeeshan-mill> http://i.imgur.com/XpsuNRD.png
[13:47:09] <zeeshan-mill> this is what im currently seeing
[13:47:09] <CaptHindsight> zeeshan-mill: have a part number or link to the data sheet for your opto's?
[13:47:22] <zeeshan-mill> pm-f44p
[13:47:50] <pcw_home> well other solution is lower count wheel
[13:48:00] <zeeshan-mill> yea i shoulda done that to begin with!
[13:48:03] <pcw_home> :-(
[13:48:37] <pcw_home> I think the resolution of the detectors is marginal for your slot width
[13:49:10] <zeeshan-mill> i think i can chop some teeth off
[13:49:18] <CaptHindsight> http://www.sunxsensors.com/products/product/download/get.html?download_id=843
[13:49:19] <zeeshan-mill> theyre so small
[13:49:49] <pcw_home> you can see that the narrowest pulse violates quadrature
[13:51:11] <pcw_home> that will be seen as a reversal by the counter which will make the velocity estimate extremely ragged
[13:51:40] <zeeshan-mill> ah
[13:51:44] <zeeshan-mill> i guess i need a new wheel
[13:51:45] <zeeshan-mill> guess what!
[13:51:48] <zeeshan-mill> i have a cnc mill!
[13:51:53] * zeeshan-mill will machineone :-)
[13:51:54] <XXCoder> congats
[13:52:07] * XXCoder is so jelious
[13:52:27] <pcw_home> 1/2 the slots and it should be fine
[13:52:53] <zeeshan-mill> so this is 100 teeth
[13:53:01] <zeeshan-mill> 50 teeth is what youresaying
[13:53:17] <pcw_home> 50 or even 30 is fine
[13:54:08] <zeeshan-mill> ok thatll be based on what end mill i have
[13:54:10] <zeeshan-mill> =D
[13:55:25] <PetefromTn_> Lord I LOATHE doing my taxes..LOL
[13:56:18] <pcw_home> And it looks like you should bias toward slightly narrower slots than teeth
[13:57:27] <pcw_home> If you do 50 teeth your 180 degrees is now 90 :-)
[13:57:46] <zeeshan> haha
[14:16:21] <zeeshan> does thje index pulse
[14:16:26] <zeeshan> ahve to be related to the a and b channel at all?
[14:24:57] <zeeshan> http://i.imgur.com/F3t7RNo.png
[14:25:08] <zeeshan> i made it a bit smaller in diameter relative to the old wheel
[14:25:11] <zeeshan> itll fit better
[14:25:18] <zeeshan> i hope this is ok
[14:31:58] <jdh> if not, you can make another one
[15:03:54] <witnit> I created an M150 command which calls a bash script and then lets gcode continue. While the gcode processes the rest of the file, my other pins are being handled through the second bash script called in this format; halcmd setp gpio.xx.out true; sleep 1; false exit; is this safe and or proper?
[15:07:39] <Connor> witnit What's this script for ?
[15:07:43] <witnit> i have some sequences i need automated while the rest of the program is running, since these can be both ran at the same time i can reduce my cycle time by about 30% im just not sure which is the best route
[15:08:55] <witnit> its a gate and debur station at 2 seconds, then gravity feeds a crossdrill at 4 sec stacking gcode is a 6 second job, but if i can debur while the drill is happening the part will be ready to drop when the old part gets out of the way
[15:09:23] <Connor> What is this for?
[15:09:31] <Connor> sounds interesting.
[15:09:39] <witnit> debur and crossdrill station
[15:09:55] <Connor> I say give it a shot. Sounds like it'll work.
[15:10:12] <witnit> it functions but i did know if there was a more proper way to do it
[15:10:32] <Connor> You could try remap and O code.. I'm not sure it would parallel like that though.
[15:10:51] <witnit> when i finish it, and get the code running it, i will make a little video or something
[15:11:12] <Connor> Is this to make a specific part for production?
[15:11:13] <witnit> I was running this by printer port, but i wanted the eth options to move my computer across the room
[15:11:16] <witnit> yeah
[15:11:21] <witnit> well a few different ones
[15:11:28] <witnit> just different lengths
[15:11:54] <witnit> the next system i need to get is a rigid servo tapping heads made up
[15:12:04] <witnit> I think i found a really good solution tho
[15:12:43] <witnit> tap directly on the motor shaft and the part in a small fixture on a shuttle that is ballscrew driven.
[15:12:54] <witnit> or cam doesnt really matter
[15:13:00] <Connor> OKay, What do these parts your making do or for? I'm kinda curious.
[15:13:05] <witnit> it would be very low cost tapping
[15:13:20] <witnit> im not sure about the bigger ones, but these smaller ones are a type of screw
[15:13:52] <witnit> https://www.google.com/search?q=chicago+screw&client=ubuntu&hs=4I6&channel=fs&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ei=rbXfVIvREsH2yQToioHwAg&ved=0CAkQ_AUoAg&biw=892&bih=545
[15:13:56] <witnit> i need to tap those
[15:14:09] <witnit> very very very quickly
[15:15:44] <witnit> drill and tap so i can make a straight hole and keep everything lined up on the shuttle process i should be able to give a tap a nice line of sight without a long index cycle
[15:20:41] <Tom_itx> how do you hold them during tapping?
[15:20:48] <witnit> air clamp
[15:21:02] <witnit> split sleeve
[15:21:06] <_methods> so what's wrong with using a normal screw machine?
[15:21:09] <Tom_itx> yeah
[15:21:17] <witnit> they are already blanked on a cold header
[15:21:25] <Tom_itx> _methods they're probably stamped out
[15:21:29] <witnit> much cheaper this way
[15:21:30] <_methods> ahh
[15:21:52] <Tom_itx> they probably shoot out the machine like bullets
[15:21:55] <witnit> yep
[15:22:01] <witnit> ping ping ping ping
[15:22:36] <Tom_itx> i like visiting those kinds of places... always find it interesting
[15:22:54] <_methods> yeah
[15:23:02] <witnit> yeah cam automation is really neat to learn from
[15:23:16] <witnit> ever seen a four slide machine?
[15:26:05] <witnit> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AraaOsMDW4U
[15:39:06] <Tom_itx> i've seen similar
[15:46:16] <Deejay> gn8
[16:13:09] <XXCoder> damn I love my loupe lol
[16:13:50] <MrSunshine> ough for one watching to much adult stuff that sounds realy bad
[16:13:51] <MrSunshine> :P
[16:13:59] <XXCoder> lol
[16:14:14] <XXCoder> its not usual word thats for sure
[16:15:52] <XXCoder> 4616 4s12 chip
[16:15:54] <XXCoder> oops
[16:16:16] <XXCoder> forgot to change to google lol
[16:17:02] <XXCoder> hmm
[16:17:08] <XXCoder> how do I research chip?
[16:17:24] <zeeshan-mill> datasheets
[16:17:24] <zeeshan-mill> :D
[16:17:56] <XXCoder> datasheet?
[16:18:08] <zeeshan-mill> are you talking about electronics?
[16:18:12] <XXCoder> yeah
[16:18:18] <XXCoder> its burnt chip on circuit
[16:18:23] <MrSunshine> XXCoder: tho i think its lupe im thinking of but... associations went far far away from what i guess you actualy ment :P
[16:18:49] <XXCoder> nah its loupe
[16:19:03] <XXCoder> https://www.google.com/search?q=lupe+l&safe=off&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ei=48TfVMn3GM33oATkroKADw&ved=0CAoQ_AUoAw&biw=1920&bih=969#safe=off&tbm=isch&q=loupe
[16:19:16] <XXCoder> lupe is mostly pics of ladies
[16:19:30] <XXCoder> or guys
[16:20:04] <XXCoder> also furry wolf charactor of some kind
[16:20:17] <MrSunshine> XXCoder: yes ... the word was correct but I thought about "lupe" when i read it :P
[16:20:24] <XXCoder> oh
[16:20:37] <XXCoder> lots possibilities on what your lupe is
[16:20:53] <MrSunshine> adult actress ...
[16:20:54] <MrSunshine> :PÖ
[16:21:00] <XXCoder> lol ok
[16:21:05] <XXCoder> pornfistic
[16:21:42] * MrSunshine tried to open his pcv valve canal today with a piece of steel cable ...
[16:21:52] <MrSunshine> went good and all .. until it got like 2cm shorter in a hurry
[16:22:23] <MrSunshine> so i got two options... 1 ... the cable tore off in the canal and i now run the risk of getting steel cable into one of the cylinders of the car ...
[16:22:34] <MrSunshine> 2 ... the wire twisted up and got shorter due to that .. it got 3 tight spots ...
[16:23:20] <XXCoder> its likely more than one chip died, some resistors around it dont look good
[16:23:57] <XXCoder> no loss, friend of mine already had replacement shipped
[16:26:02] <XXCoder> this chip (though second number is different) http://i00.i.aliimg.com/wsphoto/v0/1906351764/AO4616-4616-MOSFET-Metal-Oxide-Semiconductor-Field-Effect-Transistor-Commonly-used-chip.jpg_350x350.jpg
[16:38:04] <zeeshan-mill> pcw_home, if my trigger wheel has 1 weird tooth
[16:38:10] <zeeshan-mill> will this affect anything
[16:38:26] <XXCoder> maybe if bigger
[16:38:29] <XXCoder> smaller maybe not?
[16:38:53] <XXCoder> is it critical that gears mesh perfectly?
[16:39:04] <zeeshan-mill> its not meshing with anything
[16:39:17] <pcw_home> as long as quadrature is not violated. it will count correctly
[16:39:19] <XXCoder> ah was thinking "gear"
[16:39:37] <pcw_home> but may have a velocity glitch at that point
[16:40:07] <zeeshan-mill> it will likely violate quadrature :/
[16:40:32] <pcw_home> then it will not count correctly
[16:40:34] <zeeshan-mill> i guess im remachining this
[16:40:38] <zeeshan-mill> down to 25 teeth lol
[16:41:04] <XXCoder> wild guess, more teeth = more accuratre?
[16:41:12] <zeeshan-mill> ya
[16:41:23] <XXCoder> 1,000 teeth ;)
[16:41:25] <zeeshan-mill> if your photointerruptors can keep up
[16:42:00] <XXCoder> yeah 1,000 would nee very good sensor I bet
[16:42:14] <Tom_itx> zeeshan for the spindle?
[16:42:40] <zeeshan-mill> yea
[16:42:54] <Tom_itx> what about mounting?
[16:43:03] <zeeshan-mill> do the teeth have to be even
[16:43:04] <zeeshan-mill> like
[16:43:13] <zeeshan-mill> the amount of time of light blocked
[16:43:22] <Tom_itx> it would probably be best
[16:43:24] <zeeshan-mill> to the amount of time of thru light
[16:43:37] <Tom_itx> get a real encoder for it?
[16:43:37] <zeeshan-mill> mounting isnt a prob
[16:43:43] <zeeshan-mill> no
[16:43:46] <zeeshan-mill> im almost there
[16:43:51] <zeeshan-mill> why would i get a real encoder :P
[16:43:51] <pcw_home> 25 teeth is 100 counts/turn so say a 1/4-20 tap would have 1/2000 inch Z steps
[16:44:04] <Tom_itx> i've got several HEDS ones but i'm using another type with 500 cpr 2000 quad
[16:44:15] <zeeshan-mill> ill stick to 50 teeth
[16:44:18] <zeeshan-mill> i just need to find material
[16:44:23] <zeeshan-mill> i kinda screwed up this trigger wheel spare i had
[16:44:26] <XXCoder> what kind material?
[16:44:28] <pcw_home> old CD
[16:44:29] <zeeshan-mill> the index mark didnt line p with where i machined
[16:44:30] <ssi> hi
[16:44:37] <XXCoder> hey ssi
[16:44:40] <zeeshan-mill> excellent idea pcw!
[16:44:41] <zeeshan-mill> LOL
[16:44:42] <ssi> what's shakin
[16:44:44] <zeeshan-mill> hi
[16:44:55] <XXCoder> zeeshan-mill: just go to dollar store
[16:45:01] <XXCoder> grab some $1 metal pan
[16:45:04] <Tom_itx> CDs are brittle
[16:45:16] <Tom_itx> but would probably work
[16:46:16] <Tom_itx> my first one was a printer encoder with 28 counts
[16:46:45] <Tom_itx> i hope to work on it more this evening
[16:46:48] <XXCoder> zeeshan-mill: http://julioterra.com/journal/wp-content/uploads/2013/01/encoder_body_2.png
[16:46:55] <XXCoder> high resololution
[16:47:00] <XXCoder> 128 state
[16:49:59] <XXCoder> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rotary_encoder#mediaviewer/File:Gray_code_rotary_encoder_13-track_opened.jpg interesting!
[16:51:10] <XXCoder> 2 ^ 13 state
[16:51:44] <XXCoder> resolution of 0.0439453125 degree
[16:52:17] <XXCoder> curious on if it has 64 tracks
[16:52:22] <XXCoder> 3.2526065174565133020223584026098e-18 lol
[16:52:25] <XXCoder> damn small
[16:54:14] <XXCoder> http://images.machinedesign.com/images/archive/talk3jpg_00000038653.jpg I love the graphic lol
[16:58:35] <XXCoder> hey zeeshan-mill ?
[17:07:36] <pcw_home> Those are absolute encoders (incremental encoders are cheaper and more common)
[17:08:18] <pcw_home> (since they only have 2 or 3 tracks)
[17:15:45] <zeeshan-mill> sorry maching stuff
[17:16:06] <XXCoder> np man
[17:16:45] <zeeshan-mill> i found a piece of acrylic
[17:16:52] <zeeshan-mill> that was the right thicknes
[17:16:57] <zeeshan-mill> cd was too small in diameter :/
[17:17:06] <XXCoder> nice
[17:17:18] <zeeshan-mill> hopefully frosting the acrylic
[17:17:20] <zeeshan-mill> will stop light
[17:17:21] <XXCoder> got picture of setup milling it?
[17:17:41] <XXCoder> the parts where it lets light though is actual holes or just transparent?
[17:20:21] <zeeshan-mill> this comp is too slow to load flickr
[17:20:25] <zeeshan-mill> google flickr turbozee84
[17:20:31] <zeeshan-mill> first two pics, just uploaded from fone
[17:20:32] <zeeshan-mill> :D
[17:20:46] <zeeshan-mill> the teeth need to block light
[17:20:59] <XXCoder> pcw_home: I bet yeah. much less sensors too
[17:22:07] <zeeshan> had to come up
[17:22:26] <zeeshan> https://www.flickr.com/photos/128539016@N05/15911508203/
[17:22:30] <zeeshan> https://www.flickr.com/photos/128539016@N05/16345786307/in/photostream/
[17:23:07] <XXCoder> cant you paint it?
[17:23:11] <XXCoder> black or something
[17:23:18] <XXCoder> nice though
[17:23:20] <zeeshan> yea i can
[17:24:58] <XXCoder> cool
[17:25:44] <XXCoder> pcw_home: I wonder if anyone would ever need rotatry endoder with 64 tracks lol
[17:35:27] <pcw_home> The higher resolution encoders I know are about28 bits
[17:36:42] <XXCoder> lemme calulate that
[17:36:55] <pcw_home> (and they use a different scheme, not 28 tracks as the densest tracks spacing would get too small)
[17:37:05] <XXCoder> 0.0000013411045074462890625
[17:37:30] <XXCoder> basically 0.00000134
[17:37:36] <XXCoder> degrees
[17:38:40] <XXCoder> .27% of one degree lol
[17:46:55] <MrSunshine> does the mesa cards work with beaglebone ?
[17:50:26] <pcw_home> 28 bits/turn is 0.00013411045074 % of a degree
[17:51:04] <XXCoder> actually youre right
[17:51:09] <pcw_home> They might (say with SPI interface) but Have not tried
[17:56:31] <MrSunshine> found there is a true parport interface for the beaglebone
[17:56:33] <MrSunshine> *cape
[17:56:39] <MrSunshine> should work with mesas ?
[18:20:44] * zeeshan is waiting for paint to try
[18:20:45] <zeeshan> dry
[18:28:16] <XXCoder> cool
[18:28:43] <zeeshan> frosting didnt block light
[18:28:47] <zeeshan> it did need a coat of paint
[18:29:03] <XXCoder> yeah thats what I guessed
[18:29:10] <XXCoder> it would blur light but still light
[18:29:11] <zeeshan> i really thought frosting would work!
[18:29:13] <zeeshan> yea
[19:06:23] <witnit_> what is the highest number of .gpio.xxx. pins that mesa puts out?
[19:06:31] <witnit_> on one card
[19:07:52] <ssi> depends on the card
[19:09:07] <witnit_> ?
[19:09:16] <witnit_> so whats the HIGHEST
[19:09:25] <ssi> I dunno
[19:09:28] <ssi> probably less than .999 :)
[19:09:32] <witnit_> ha yeah :)
[19:10:09] <witnit_> I am making a spreadsheet to auto fill hm2_xxxx.gpio.xxx.xxxx TRUE/FALSE and was wondering the highest anyone would ever need
[19:10:20] <witnit_> so you can copy and paste to your .hal
[19:16:53] <XXCoder> some hackers apparently broke apple's lightining plug protocols
[19:17:04] <XXCoder> might mean they now can root iphones
[19:17:15] <XXCoder> dont care much fo slavery made phones though
[19:17:52] <malcom2073> Quite a barren household that soapbox leads to.
[19:23:56] <pcw_home> most pins per card is 144 currently
[19:24:57] <zeeshan-mill> man
[19:25:17] <zeeshan-mill> i cant get this bloody thing stablized
[19:25:23] <XXCoder> the disk?
[19:25:26] <zeeshan-mill> im uisng a 50 tooth gear
[19:25:30] <zeeshan-mill> and its still being a bastard
[19:25:59] <zeeshan-mill> at 10hz @ motor it gives an okay wave
[19:26:06] <zeeshan-mill> at 20hz it goes crazy
[19:27:31] <zeeshan-mill> http://i.imgur.com/BM4E5XR.png <<-- at 20hz
[19:28:22] <zeeshan-mill> sorry thats at 10hz
[19:28:37] <zeeshan-mill> http://i.imgur.com/HU35Oho.png
[19:28:38] <zeeshan-mill> at 20hz
[19:28:52] <XXCoder> thats weird
[19:29:00] <XXCoder> ypu sure its disk and not hardware
[19:29:10] <zeeshan-mill> i think disk is fine
[19:29:15] <zeeshan-mill> something up with the hardware
[19:29:20] <pcw_home> aliasing error
[19:29:26] <zeeshan-mill> whats aliasing
[19:30:41] <zeeshan-mill> "effect that makes signals indistinguishable"
[19:30:49] <pcw_home> you are sampling the inputs at 2 KHz (500 usec) and you have 2ms per division so theres 1/4 division of uncertainty in your plot
[19:31:31] <zeeshan-mill> oh
[19:31:44] <zeeshan-mill> i should sample just 2
[19:31:47] <pcw_home> basically a beat between the data and the sample rate
[19:31:48] <zeeshan-mill> at 4khz
[19:32:07] <pcw_home> should be better at 4 KHz
[19:32:12] <zeeshan-mill> lemme try
[19:33:37] <pcw_home> without a real scope you have to rely on plots at low speeds and the timing data of the OPTO modules
[19:34:13] <zeeshan-mill> you cant increase the sample rate in halscope?
[19:34:48] <pcw_home> No, the only way is increase the servo thread rate
[19:34:53] <zeeshan-mill> oh
[19:35:00] <zeeshan-mill> hm
[19:35:05] <zeeshan-mill> so i guess i just have to trust my low speed data
[19:35:25] <XXCoder> that was 4 samples, and 2 worked fine?
[19:35:27] <XXCoder> try 3
[19:35:33] <XXCoder> if possible
[19:36:33] <zeeshan-mill> om monitor spindle revs
[19:36:35] <pcw_home> yes (checking the encoder velocity tracking will give you an idea if it goes south at a high speed)
[19:36:36] <zeeshan-mill> and spindle-vel-fb
[19:36:45] <zeeshan-mill> and just at low speed its going craz
[19:36:52] <zeeshan-mill> keeps jumping between 5-10
[19:36:55] <zeeshan-mill> and back and forth
[19:37:27] <zeeshan-mill> oh i forgot to change encoder scale to 50
[19:37:28] <zeeshan-mill> whoops
[19:40:41] <zeeshan-mill> do you need index to work correctly
[19:40:46] <zeeshan-mill> to display velocity correctly?
[19:40:56] <zeeshan-mill> or is that just going to effect # of revs
[19:40:59] <pcw_home> no
[19:41:50] <pcw_home> index is used for homing, threading, and rigid tapping but has no influence on velocity
[19:43:08] <zeeshan-mill> yea something is wrong
[19:43:35] <zeeshan-mill> i should be close to 250 rpm
[19:43:44] <zeeshan-mill> and this thing is jumping between 25-45
[19:44:00] <zeeshan-mill> for velocity
[19:44:24] <pcw_home> which velocity pin?
[19:45:02] <zeeshan-mill> hm2_5i25.0.encoder.05.velocity
[19:45:12] <pcw_home> velocity from the encoder is in RPS (and scale should be 200 for a 50 slot wheel)
[19:45:21] <zeeshan-mill> oh
[19:48:28] <pcw_home> if you run it quite slowly (so the scope sample frequency is much higher than the frequency of the output waveform)
[19:48:30] <pcw_home> and plot the quadrature you may see that there are quadrature errors remaining
[19:48:56] <zeeshan-mill> ill put it in back gear
[19:49:07] <zeeshan-mill> velocity is jumping quite a bite
[19:49:08] <zeeshan-mill> bit
[19:49:59] <zeeshan-mill> hm
[19:50:05] <zeeshan-mill> looks pretty good!
[19:50:08] <pcw_home> for low resolution encoders, the accuracy of the quadrature determines the velocity estimate accuracy to a large extent
[19:50:36] <zeeshan-mill> im gonna post a ss
[19:50:40] <zeeshan-mill> please tell me what you think
[19:51:47] <zeeshan-mill> man im definitely upgrading themotherboard next month
[19:51:52] <zeeshan-mill> cant take how slow this comp is lol
[19:53:57] <zeeshan-mill> http://i.imgur.com/BM4E5XR.png
[19:54:37] <skunkworks> that looks better..
[19:55:25] <pcw_home> need slower (or real scope) to check your wheel
[19:56:21] <pcw_home> 1/4 that speed would be good
[19:56:25] <zeeshan-mill> hm
[19:56:32] <zeeshan-mill> the only best thing i can do is
[19:56:34] <zeeshan-mill> spin it by hand
[19:56:40] <zeeshan-mill> slowly..
[19:56:51] <zeeshan-mill> its a pain in the butt to change my vfd configs right now
[19:56:57] <zeeshan-mill> cause its set to min freq 10hz
[19:57:53] <pcw_home> will your MB run at a 4 KHz servo thread?
[19:58:34] <zeeshan-mill> i thinkso
[19:58:47] <zeeshan-mill> i spun it by hand
[19:58:50] <zeeshan-mill> and i see square waves now
[19:58:54] <zeeshan-mill> not trapezoids!
[19:59:27] <zeeshan-mill> is spinning by hand not acceptable?
[19:59:39] <zeeshan-mill> i guess its not consistent.
[19:59:48] <pcw_home> Its hard to tell with the +-500 usec jitter but it looks like red is lagging by more than 90 degrees
[20:00:01] <zeeshan-mill> lemme change the min freq of the vfd.
[20:00:05] * zeeshan-mill busts out manual
[20:00:31] <zeeshan-mill> actually elmme try changin the servo thread first
[20:00:32] <zeeshan-mill> thats easier
[20:01:10] <witnit_> Here is a quick way to draw up all 144 pins at once or cut and paste what you need insert variables such as hm2_7i90. etc etc invert_output. any suggestions you guys have let me know
[20:01:12] <witnit_> http://s000.tinyupload.com/download.php?file_id=26535728561106969257&t=2653572856110696925715238
[20:01:34] <witnit_> openoffice spreadsheet
[20:01:36] <witnit_> btw
[20:02:42] <witnit_> I left it basic enough you should be able to use it as an example for other hardware printer ports and such
[20:05:46] <zeeshan-mill> if max jitter is 22000 ns
[20:05:54] <zeeshan-mill> i can run a servo thread of 100000 ?
[20:05:58] <zeeshan-mill> safely
[20:06:12] <pcw_home> Usually not
[20:06:16] <zeeshan-mill> ah
[20:06:31] <zeeshan-mill> http://i.imgur.com/BM4E5XR.png
[20:06:38] <zeeshan-mill> here is the scope at 4khz
[20:07:15] <pcw_home> umm thats the same one as before
[20:07:27] <zeeshan-mill> its 8000 samples at 4khz!
[20:07:42] <zeeshan-mill> before it was at 2khz
[20:08:13] <pcw_home> same url, same 2 KHz png
[20:08:25] <zeeshan-mill> http://i.imgur.com/Vb7PkGn.png
[20:08:28] <zeeshan-mill> sorry
[20:08:50] <XXCoder> looks reasonable
[20:09:25] <ssi> zeeshan wtf are you doing working on machines tonight
[20:09:31] <ssi> shouldn't you be out with the ladies or something? :P
[20:09:35] <zeeshan-mill> no
[20:09:42] <zeeshan-mill> i already did an early vday
[20:09:43] <zeeshan-mill> :]
[20:09:45] <ssi> :P
[20:11:31] <pcw_home> looks like decent quadrature and will count right but enough distortion to need filtering of the velocity
[20:11:54] <zeeshan-mill> ah
[20:12:30] <zeeshan-mill> filteris currently set to 1
[20:12:45] <fluffybitchx> got a carload of yard sale stuff today, all of it cheap! yay!
[20:13:25] <pcw_home> Not that filter...
[20:13:26] <witnit_> :) nice, show us the goooods
[20:13:27] <pcw_home> velocity estimation when the encoder edge rate is less than the sample rate is done by measuring the time between edges
[20:14:34] <zeeshan-mill> how do i filter it?
[20:14:45] <pcw_home> lowpass
[20:14:54] <fluffybitchx> nothing too incredibly shiny, just cheap stuff. a cutter for up to 1.5" steel cable, $1. several unopened cans of bondo, $1. an epoxy resin kit with a couple cans of resin and hardener, microfibers, thickeners, etc, $1. a porter-cable hinge template set, $1. some like-new shovels, weed puller, maul, and pick, $1 each. etc.
[20:15:18] <zeeshan-mill> how close will my velocity to be actual?
[20:15:22] <zeeshan-mill> *to actual
[20:15:39] <pcw_home> You can never have too many shovels...
[20:15:43] <ssi> what flavor of epoxy?
[20:15:45] <zeeshan-mill> hahah
[20:15:48] <XXCoder> hey fur
[20:15:50] <zeeshan-mill> nice fluffybitchx
[20:16:01] <XXCoder> ssi: strawberry ;)
[20:16:02] <pcw_home> the average should be right on
[20:16:05] <ssi> mmm
[20:16:10] <zeeshan-mill> cutter for steel cable is nice
[20:17:49] <zeeshan-mill> should i be sending the filtered velocity to motion.spindle-speed-in?
[20:19:02] <furrywolf> ssi: http://www.westsystem.com/ss/ that flavor
[20:19:14] <pcw_home> yes
[20:19:18] <ssi> good choice
[20:19:22] <ssi> did you get the mix ratio pumps with it?
[20:19:35] <ssi> that stuff is like $130/gallon fwiw
[20:20:10] <furrywolf> no. one can has a hand pump, but it doesn't do anything fancy.
[20:20:19] <ssi> it does something fancy
[20:20:28] <ssi> they're volumetric pumps
[20:20:45] <ssi> if you have the right pumps on the right cans, then it's one pump to one pump for the proper mix ratio
[20:21:05] <pcw_home> Thats convenent
[20:21:09] <ssi> yep!
[20:21:17] <ssi> http://www.westsystem.com/ss/pumps-and-metering-equipment
[20:22:07] <furrywolf> I got a half full quart of resin with the pump in it, a half full can of hardener with no pump, a full quart of resin, a full can of hardener, and three tubs of additivies.
[20:22:35] <ssi> now go get yourself a couple yards of e-glass and build an airplane :D
[20:22:44] <ssi> with a quart of epoxy it'll have to be a pretty small airplane
[20:23:32] <furrywolf> I got some shackles and other rigging supplies, also about $1, some marine paint (that shit's expensive!) also around $1, and other stuff all at the same sale...
[20:23:46] <furrywolf> I could have filled my car flat to the roof if I just wanted stuff, but I was trying to be picky.
[20:23:52] <ssi> mustve been a boat guy :P
[20:24:01] <ssi> ah well, nobobdy's perfect :D
[20:24:19] <furrywolf> he had LOTS of boat stuff, all dirt cheap. I'm not a boat person and didn't need any of it.
[20:24:31] <furrywolf> floats, drag nets, hydraulics, rudder controls, barrels of rope,...
[20:24:44] <zeeshan-mill> 0.01 gain seems to stablize it
[20:24:45] <ssi> I wouldn't mind having some cheap rope
[20:25:09] <ssi> good marine rope is effin expensive
[20:25:33] <furrywolf> it wasn't his stuff. he was cleaning out his friend's storage unit for him. apparantly the friend moved to colorado a while ago, and left a lot of his stuff, planning to come back for it someday... then decided he only wanted a few good bits and the rest could get dumped.
[20:25:49] <ssi> not a lot of good boating in colorado I guess :P
[20:26:05] <furrywolf> unfortunately, he wouldn't take $1 for the 15" 2hp planer. apparantly his friend was insistent on $400 for that.
[20:26:27] <ssi> still a pretty good price
[20:26:28] <ssi> what brand was it?
[20:27:14] <furrywolf> I also got some stainless shelving... was the only thing I didn't get for $1ish. spent $25 for it. industrial restaurant shelving, heavy stainless shelves, on infinitely-adjustable brackets on tall vertical supports with ceiling/wall mounts.
[20:27:16] <zeeshan-mill> its outputting 12.82 RPS @ 60hz at motor
[20:27:41] <furrywolf> grizzly, straight from taiwan, and looked well-used and rusty. I offered him $50, he said his friend would be a bit annoyed.
[20:27:48] <ssi> haha
[20:29:08] <furrywolf> the other expensive thing there was a very large barrel of heavy chain. about 3" links, galvanized, brand new. said he spent $5000 on it.
[20:31:03] <furrywolf> also got an air hose, an extension cord, a drop light, a different marine epoxy product I'm not familiar with (sealed 1gal can plus about 8z of hardener), umm... I need to go unload the van. it's rather full. :)
[20:31:56] <furrywolf> he had a lot of chain and rigging supplies, but I have enough of that stuff.
[20:32:32] <furrywolf> he said to swing by tomorrow and see if his friend has decided to get rid of the planer cheap. might pick up a pile of load binders if they're still there.
[20:36:30] <furrywolf> http://www.westsystem.com/ss/assets/galleries/projects-tips-from-the-shop-of-jon-staudacher-gallerypage/_resampled/ResizedImage250983-staud1234.jpg you know, I'm all for creative construction, but.... I wouldn't build a car hauler from wood and epoxy.
[20:37:43] <ssi> you'd be amazed what you can do with wood and epoxy :)
[20:37:57] <ssi> https://pbs.twimg.com/media/B8yE-jWIgAAduWf.jpg:large
[20:38:15] <furrywolf> the cable cutter I got is... interesting. it's a very hard steel blade, in a heavy cast frame, with a plunger that you hit with a sledgehammer. I guess if you don't like hydraulics... lol
[20:39:19] <furrywolf> http://www.e-rigging.com/one-and-half-inch-Impact-Cable-Cutter?gclid=CKSxpKXx4sMCFciBfgodZxsAxg like that, but probably not made in china. :)
[20:39:41] <MacGalempsy> had to reload windows 7... now time to start all over...
[20:40:15] * furrywolf suggests MacGalempsy start all over without windows
[20:40:46] <MacGalempsy> cant do it...
[20:40:55] <MacGalempsy> but thanks for the suggestion
[20:41:51] <furrywolf> he also had a smaller cable cutter, but it was rusted to hell and the blade was broken, so decided to only get the big one.
[20:42:17] <witnit_> MacGalempsy, can you virtualbox your windows distribution so you dont have to "start all over"
[20:42:48] <MacGalempsy> I have a couple of enterprise ssd that I was thinking about running a copy of linux cnc on
[20:42:52] <MacGalempsy> well on one
[20:44:43] <witnit_> I install linux then virtualbox, then install windows inside linux, and then if anything fails you can recover very quickly, ntm you can run it headless and be able to RDP into the machine from any of your other machines
[20:45:16] <witnit_> put it on a usb stick and take it with you if you need
[20:45:33] <MacGalempsy> if I was better with linux, then that would be the best. but this old dog doesnt have time to learn new tricks
[20:46:08] <witnit_> its really very simple, and for your time you maybe consider it. sudo apt-get install virtualbox
[20:46:59] <witnit_> "start all over" is a terrible feeling to go through ;(
[20:47:09] <furrywolf> the cable cutter is a morse-starrett #2
[20:47:16] <witnit_> !!! lucky
[20:47:33] <witnit_> you could probably make half your money back on it
[20:47:36] <witnit_> =D
[20:47:36] <MacGalempsy> I think the worst part is losing all the automatic email entries in outlook
[20:47:44] <witnit_> how lost is it?
[20:47:47] <witnit_> what ahppened?
[20:48:13] <MacGalempsy> luckily I had a d drive with all the data
[20:48:26] <furrywolf> $350 new, $50 on ebay
[20:48:28] <MacGalempsy> so the only parts I really lost are the installed software
[20:48:56] <ssi> having trouble finding my motivates
[20:50:14] <tjb1> Cany anyone load the datasheet on this? http://www.digikey.com/product-detail/en/211401-1/A1635-ND/241416
[20:52:15] <ve7it> not me...
[20:52:29] <ve7it> blank page
[20:52:31] <roycroft> it loads fine
[20:52:57] <furrywolf> their datasheet sender seems to be broken
[20:53:07] <roycroft> it works fine for me
[20:53:10] <furrywolf> sends back nothing
[20:54:06] <tjb1> roycroft: do you have pdf link?
[20:55:58] <witnit_> tjb1, does this help at all? http://www.te.com/catalog/products/en?q=211401-1
[20:56:05] <witnit_> no pdf but 3d may help?
[20:56:25] <roycroft> tjb1: http://www.roycroft.us/A1635-ND-DigiKey.pdf
[20:56:40] <tjb1> roycroft: the datasheet
[20:56:42] <roycroft> i just printed it to pdf and pushed to one of my webservers
[20:56:49] <tjb1> witnit_: I can't load that either
[20:57:00] <roycroft> oh, the datasheet itself
[20:57:00] <roycroft> sorry
[20:57:22] <roycroft> yeah, that comes up blank for me too
[20:57:30] <roycroft> i wasn't paying close enough attention - sorry
[20:58:04] <tjb1> no worries
[20:58:46] <witnit_> tjb1, http://www.datasheets360.com/pdf/-6769726848108066404
[20:59:20] <witnit_> http://www.farnell.com/datasheets/1276248.pdf
[21:00:55] <tjb1> http://datasheet.octopart.com/211401-1-Tyco-Electronics-datasheet-556859.pdf
[21:02:15] <tjb1> thanks all
[21:02:33] <Crom_> Morning
[21:02:35] <roycroft> tyco's document server is down
[21:02:43] <roycroft> digikey may be linking to that
[21:03:01] <roycroft> it's a good thing other sites cache that stuff
[21:03:32] <witnit_> morning :)
[21:04:35] <Crom_> Nice connector
[21:04:59] <tjb1> going to slap it on an 203w xbox 360 supply and run my printer
[21:06:57] <Crom_> Enough connectors to supply 5v 12v -5 -12 plus ground
[21:07:58] <furrywolf> you still need -5 and -12? running opamps?
[21:08:05] <tjb1> me?
[21:08:06] <Crom_> Uniconvert will work on cdrs up to verson 14
[21:08:39] <furrywolf> crom, since he mentioned them
[21:08:54] <Crom_> Dunno what voltages a xbox 360 ps supplies
[21:09:09] <tjb1> 3 x 12, 3 x ground, 1 x 5v, 1 x ps on
[21:09:22] <tjb1> will keep ps on and 5v in the supply
[21:10:09] <furrywolf> presumably the three 12v are just one rail, not three separate supplies?
[21:10:27] <tjb1> not sure
[21:11:03] <tjb1> current problem is connectors are not happy with 10 amps through them - https://www.dropbox.com/s/txbwp08osao0jy0/FLIR0103.jpg?dl=0
[21:11:13] <Crom_> I have old 12v rv dc/battery charger which I'm going to repurpose to be my cnc machine supply
[21:12:13] <Crom_> I believe i can get 32v out of the multitap transformer
[21:12:25] <furrywolf> I built a simple unregulated supply for mine... transformer, bridge, cap.
[21:12:42] * furrywolf wants a thermal camera
[21:13:07] <Crom_> Flir cameras are uber kewl
[21:15:36] <Crom_> I need to find some big steppers for my cnc machine
[21:16:05] <furrywolf> how big? servos are a lot better...
[21:17:19] <furrywolf> I got name-brand (pacsci) 940ozin steppers, and still top out a little under 2in/s...
[21:18:14] <furrywolf> with 1.2in/sec a better limit, as anything above that I have to set the acceleration annoyingly low.
[21:18:14] <Crom_> I'm getting some tb6560 drivers so something in nema 23 to 48 range
[21:18:55] <Crom_> So I'm limited to 3amp phase
[21:19:05] <furrywolf> oh, you want little steppers.
[21:19:22] <Crom_> <32v
[21:19:46] <furrywolf> I'm running 8.5A/phase at 56V, and I only consider mine to be medium. :)
[21:19:53] <Crom_> Not tiny, but not huge
[21:20:17] <witnit_> i love 2 volt steppers tooo Crom_
[21:20:37] <witnit_> i <3 2 volts
[21:21:21] <Crom_> When i can afford a better ps and drivers then I'll find some in the 60v 6amp range
[21:22:50] <furrywolf> how big is your machine?
[21:22:52] <witnit_> anytime a less than sign is next to a number 3 i see hearts, but it makes me think of my g/f so it makes it ok
[21:23:21] <Crom_> Heh
[21:23:49] * furrywolf doesn't currently have a girlfriend, and thus is annoyed at sappy things
[21:23:58] <Crom_> My machine is a dream right now, the creator space is a yoocnc 3040
[21:24:13] <witnit_> sorr furrywolf been there
[21:26:06] <witnit_> crom what kind of work are you wanting to do?
[21:26:16] <furrywolf> heh, google finds a lot of pretty poor opinions on chinese tb6560 boards.
[21:26:52] <Crom_> Fudge
[21:26:57] <furrywolf> <furrywolf> heh, google finds a lot of pretty poor opinions on chinese tb6560 boards.
[21:27:22] <Crom_> Damn cig lighter times out after 5minutes
[21:27:36] <witnit_> Crom_, what kind of work are you planning to do?
[21:29:50] <Crom_> I want to be able to shape 4' x 8' x 1' sheets of Styrofoam and wood to 4" thick
[21:30:00] <furrywolf> cig lighter... times out? like you're using a vehicle that has added electronic controls to the cig lighter plug, rather than a fuse and some wire like every other vehicle?
[21:30:33] <Crom_> Another machine will be a sewing machine to do embroidery
[21:31:17] <Crom_> 97 Cadillac
[21:32:22] <Tom_itx> ok scale isn't so bad with no PID.. with S150 i get ~100 with S5000 i get ~5500
[21:32:27] <Crom_> Grandma s old car
[21:32:39] <Tom_itx> at the spindle
[21:32:50] <furrywolf> "if it ain't broke, don't fix it" applies to adding "features" to cars, too. :)
[21:33:44] <furrywolf> I want to build a 4x8 plasma table one of these days... but since it's plasma, going to be all out of cheap materials (common angle iron for rails, etc), not shiny stuff.
[21:34:15] <furrywolf> I'll probably make the gantry high enough to use it for router-type tasks as well
[21:35:17] <ssi> I am going to build anohter laser table soon
[21:35:20] <ssi> 4x8' this time
[21:37:06] <furrywolf> a friend has one that uses expensive-looking rack gears... I'm just going to pull it around with aircraft cable.
[21:39:00] <Crom_> My big machine will be 0.100" wall tube and 608zz bearing
[21:39:14] <Crom_> And angle iron
[21:40:21] <Crom_> Embroidery machine might be a repurposed 3040 with the capability to be used as a 3040
[21:40:51] <ssi> timing belt is a perfectly reasonable choice
[21:40:54] <ssi> and it's fairly cheap
[21:41:16] <Crom_> Mount a fabric hoop on the z carriage
[21:41:55] <Crom_> And call the sewing machine A axis
[21:43:26] <Crom_> And z will be fabric roller/positioner
[21:43:59] <Tom_itx> ssi how much of your laser survived?
[21:44:40] <ssi> none :P
[21:44:45] <ssi> I take it back
[21:44:45] <LeelooMinai> Mounting screws")
[21:44:48] <Crom_> Ouch
[21:44:50] <ssi> the linuxcnc configs survived
[21:44:52] <ssi> i had them in git :D
[21:45:00] <Tom_itx> hah
[21:45:06] <ssi> which is actually quite valuable!
[21:45:10] <Tom_itx> you bet
[21:45:18] <Crom_> House burn up?
[21:45:21] <ssi> since I had rasterization and pulse-per-inch mode and all kinds of crap sorted out
[21:45:24] <ssi> yea
[21:45:49] <Tom_itx> iirc though you sailed thru the config on the first one
[21:45:54] <Crom_> My condolences dude!
[21:46:08] <ssi> it wasn't too bad, but some of the advanced stuff took some thinking and research
[21:46:23] <ssi> I need to get my plasma table set back up soon
[21:46:35] <Tom_itx> ssi, have you done PID loops on lcnc?
[21:46:44] <ssi> sure, for servos
[21:46:53] <ssi> I've built a few servo machines
[21:47:05] <Tom_itx> where do you feed the encoders and resulting output?
[21:47:11] <Tom_itx> this is on spindle
[21:47:29] <Tom_itx> i may fiddle with it a bit
[21:47:50] <ssi> well you need an encoder counter somewhere; I use all mesa stuff, so I'd bring it into an encoder input on a mesa card
[21:48:03] <ssi> and then the encoder component in hm2 has velocity and position outputs
[21:48:16] <ssi> you can feed those into your pid components depending on what loop you're trying to close
[21:48:22] <Tom_itx> yeah mesa here
[21:48:35] <ssi> are you just trying to stabilize spindle speed?
[21:48:39] <ssi> or do something fancier like orient
[21:48:39] <Tom_itx> i have the encoder & spindle pwm going
[21:48:50] <Tom_itx> who knows...
[21:48:53] <ssi> :)
[21:48:58] <Tom_itx> start with spindle speed control
[21:49:04] <Tom_itx> i have index as well though
[21:49:06] <ssi> I haven't gotten there yet, but on my VMC I need to eventually get to where I can do orient
[21:49:15] <Tom_itx> it's more for learning than anything
[21:49:18] <ssi> the toolchanger requires it
[21:49:30] <ssi> what sort of spindle motor do you have?
[21:49:38] <Tom_itx> dc brush
[21:49:42] <Tom_itx> it's a sherline
[21:49:47] <Tom_itx> stock control
[21:49:48] <Crom_> Hmm on the sewing machine I'll have to track position
[21:49:51] <ssi> I tried to do closed loop spindle speed on my HNC, but AC induction motors don't really have fine enough speed control for stable closed loop speed
[21:50:03] <Tom_itx> i may not get that far with this either
[21:50:15] <ssi> that should be fairly straightforward
[21:50:27] <Tom_itx> looks like it should be
[21:50:31] <ssi> you're just trying to close the velocity loop
[21:50:34] <Tom_itx> yep
[21:50:47] <ssi> so you command a velocity, the encoder gives you velocity feedback, and your pid component tries to minimize the error
[21:51:14] <Tom_itx> i need to read up on it first
[21:51:32] <Tom_itx> still doing some wiring on it after bench testing the pwm
[21:51:44] <Tom_itx> then i'll attempt the PID
[21:52:04] <ssi> good plan
[21:52:17] <Tom_itx> i've got the scale about as close as i can get it without pid
[21:52:39] <ssi> honestly closed-loop spindle speed isn't super useful
[21:52:46] <ssi> what IS useful though, is rigid tapping :)
[21:52:52] <Tom_itx> it's just a learning exercise
[21:53:05] <Tom_itx> that's really why i'm doing it is for tapping
[21:53:21] <Tom_itx> where do you feed the index pulse for that?
[21:53:30] <Tom_itx> right now it's just sitting on a pin
[21:54:00] <ssi> hm2 encoder component takes it
[21:54:09] <Tom_itx> right
[21:54:15] <Tom_itx> i have it all set up
[21:54:16] <ssi> it uses that to determine position
[21:54:53] <Tom_itx> and fixed my scale from my old 28 count single channel encoder
[21:55:07] <Tom_itx> to a 500 cpr 2000 ppr quad
[21:55:26] <Tom_itx> quite a res improvement..
[21:56:03] <ssi> I don't have all my linuxcnc configs in git sadly
[21:56:07] <ssi> https://github.com/ianmcmahon/linuxcnc_configs
[21:56:10] <ssi> but there's what I do have
[21:56:15] <ssi> none of those have spindles under pid at the moment :)
[21:56:17] <Tom_itx> i'm not ready for it just yet anyway
[21:56:35] <Tom_itx> just planning
[21:56:49] <ssi> I need a minion :/
[21:56:53] <Tom_itx> i need to post my updated configs again too
[21:57:11] <Tom_itx> it's a nice safe place to keep em too
[21:57:26] <Tom_itx> another good reason to keep em current
[21:58:12] <Tom_itx> what's the sabre?
[21:58:20] <ssi> cincinnati sabre 500 VMC
[21:58:25] <ssi> the new one I bougth in august
[21:58:30] <Tom_itx> neither of the others would have spindle :)
[21:58:34] <ssi> correct :)
[21:58:42] <ssi> and the spindle encoder wasn't working on the sabre last I screwed with it
[21:59:49] <ssi> https://scontent-atl.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xfp1/v/t1.0-9/10672253_10100490548539302_6407225546292985700_n.jpg?oh=3a0b5e82373d58ceec4dd22c6ee7ce8e&oe=555CD152
[21:59:52] <ssi> big bitch is big
[22:00:14] <Tom_itx> nice size
[22:00:25] <Tom_itx> not too big as vmc's go
[22:00:29] <furrywolf> that looks like it's asking to be an entry in one of those forklift fail videos.
[22:00:41] <ssi> furrywolf: it's actually a pretty safe arrangement
[22:00:45] <Tom_itx> furrywolf mostly sheetmetal
[22:00:52] <ssi> it's a 12,5k lift truck that weighs 20klb
[22:00:58] <ssi> and the machine is about 9k
[22:00:59] <Tom_itx> however most of the weight is at the back probably
[22:01:03] <furrywolf> must be lighter than it looks. :)
[22:01:14] <ssi> and yes, the weight is at the back
[22:01:24] <furrywolf> yeah, that's my thinking... all the heavy bits are at the far end, while all the sheetmetal is up front...
[22:01:43] <ssi> I couldn't get that far under it on the truck, and I lifted it just a bit to scoot it back some, and that did pick the back wheels of the lift up
[22:01:46] <ssi> that was a bit hairy
[22:01:50] <ssi> but once I got all the way under it it was stable
[22:02:02] <Tom_itx> ssi, which encoder is the spindle?
[22:02:02] <ssi> had to pick it up from the front though or else I wouldn't be able to position it in its place
[22:02:06] <Tom_itx> or do you remember...
[22:02:19] <ssi> on mine? 05
[22:02:39] <ssi> 7i77 is usually set up for 05 being spindle
[22:02:40] <Tom_itx> ahh ok i see it now
[22:03:09] <ssi> but there's nothing in the config to do pid for spindle
[22:03:17] <Tom_itx> right
[22:03:23] <ssi> I was getting zero counts on the encoder for some reason
[22:03:32] <Tom_itx> i just connected the bare min signals on mine
[22:03:48] <ssi> https://pbs.twimg.com/media/B0W6_x0IQAAiHfB.jpg:large
[22:03:52] <ssi> that's the encoder
[22:04:00] <furrywolf> I need to build my spindle encoder... I'm just planning on cutting a bunch of slots in an aluminum disc and aiming some sensors through it.
[22:04:04] <ssi> looks like it's hall based
[22:04:21] <furrywolf> shiny
[22:04:38] <ssi> furrywolf: here's the encoder I made for my little g0602
[22:04:39] <ssi> https://fbcdn-sphotos-c-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-xaf1/v/t1.0-9/205204_655375525742_5631970_n.jpg?oh=89c1a8ec2fa3f7a5ebc033c35d8bd2c2&oe=5555D921&__gda__=1435291871_f282bb2490e6b5993b0d858fcbeead92
[22:04:44] <ssi> actually works really well
[22:04:59] <Tom_itx> http://tom-itx.no-ip.biz:81/~webpage/cnc/new_pulleys/spindle_enc2.jpg
[22:05:05] <Tom_itx> there's my new pulley setup
[22:05:16] <ssi> not bad
[22:05:16] <Tom_itx> http://tom-itx.no-ip.biz:81/~webpage/cnc/new_pulleys/new_pulley_mounted1.jpg
[22:05:18] <Tom_itx> and the old encoder
[22:05:20] <furrywolf> gah, ugly url
[22:05:28] <Tom_itx> oh poo
[22:05:39] <Tom_itx> fugly is free
[22:05:51] <ssi> I think he's talking about mine :P
[22:05:52] <XXCoder> fancy.
[22:05:56] <Tom_itx> oh
[22:06:10] <XXCoder> 3 sensors on disk
[22:06:11] <furrywolf> yes. :P
[22:06:11] <Tom_itx> hopefully no more burnt up v belts
[22:06:25] <XXCoder> furrywolf: how do it work?
[22:06:33] <furrywolf> XXCoder: ?
[22:06:50] <XXCoder> I know the general, it turns and sometimes block light
[22:06:58] <XXCoder> but 3 on same gear?
[22:07:00] <furrywolf> ssi: I'm planning on slots instead of teeth, for a little more don't-get-mushed-when-changing-belts-itivity.
[22:07:07] <ssi> XXCoder: quadrature
[22:07:10] <ssi> XXCoder: A/B/Z
[22:07:20] <ssi> one slot in the disk is deeper
[22:07:29] <Tom_itx> this was after i cut the encoder pulleys down so i could access the drawbar on the spindle: http://tom-itx.no-ip.biz:81/~webpage/cnc/new_pulleys/spindle_enc6.jpg
[22:07:32] <ssi> that's the index slot, and the corresponding sensor is positioned a little deeper on the disk
[22:07:40] <furrywolf> XXCoder: on ssi's, two of them are quadrature on the outside of the teeth, then one is mounted further inwards and looking for the single extra-deep tooth.
[22:07:49] <ssi> I drew it up in cad, and plasma cut the disk and the mounting plate for the sensors
[22:07:53] <ssi> so everything lined up properly
[22:08:05] <XXCoder> interesting
[22:08:08] <ssi> the A and B sensors need to be 90 degrees out of phase with each other with respect to the slots
[22:08:31] <ssi> that machine is a 7i43 with hand-rolled breakout boards
[22:08:39] <ssi> I had some issues with rise time on those optical sensors
[22:08:39] <ssi> https://fbcdn-sphotos-h-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-ash2/v/t1.0-9/221664_655377352082_5844353_n.jpg?oh=71c83fcd5b375897d07eb3c645bbb257&oe=558BFE6A&__gda__=1435790455_1a65bcd1d65f937046dccf1e95005d88
[22:08:49] <furrywolf> mine will be much more like tom's old design, but 7" or so around. (based on memory, haven't measured)
[22:08:51] <ssi> ended up adding schmidt triggers to square them up
[22:08:51] <ssi> https://scontent-atl.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xaf1/v/t1.0-9/207897_655377411962_259243_n.jpg?oh=eeac6085570328fe692cffa79e6e2523&oe=5550ACD2
[22:08:59] <furrywolf> or like ssi's design.
[22:09:28] <furrywolf> you plasma cut that toothed disc? it's... too clean. lol
[22:09:34] <ssi> yep
[22:09:45] <furrywolf> methinks you have a fancier plasma cutter. :)
[22:09:45] <XXCoder> so relivate rotation sensor is usual, not abostuate
[22:09:55] <furrywolf> mine is a huge transformer with two taps, and no precision.
[22:09:59] <ssi> XXCoder: talk english
[22:10:06] <furrywolf> lol
[22:10:16] <XXCoder> ssi: mispelled that all over
[22:10:16] <ssi> I just have a powermax 45
[22:10:18] <ssi> not THAT fancy
[22:10:45] <ssi> but when I get my height / speed / current dialed in just so, it makse some pretty nice, relatively low dross cuts
[22:10:54] <XXCoder> ssi: abostuate uses this http://images.machinedesign.com/images/archive/talk3jpg_00000038653.jpg
[22:10:58] <furrywolf> English, eh, old boy? I fancy I'll need to have a butcher's at my dictionary to be sure I have the Queen's speech correct.
[22:11:15] <ssi> furrywolf: I was gonna go with my old standard, "Talk amurican"
[22:11:22] <ssi> but I'm not sure XXCoder is amurican
[22:11:32] <furrywolf> lol
[22:11:33] <XXCoder> american here
[22:11:36] <ssi> XXCoder: abostuate?
[22:11:44] <XXCoder> I cant spell that word
[22:11:45] <ssi> is that canadian for absolute?
[22:11:51] <XXCoder> thank you
[22:12:27] <ssi> and yes
[22:12:30] <ssi> quadrature is pretty standard
[22:12:35] <ssi> absolute encoders are fancypants
[22:12:58] <furrywolf> I have an old marquette sorta-lincoln made in italy... it's done entirely with iron. no electronics.
[22:13:03] <ssi> there's really not a tremendous amount of benefit to an absolute encoder other than the fact that you can know its position steady state without it having to move first
[22:13:19] <furrywolf> only power control is two taps and a high/low switch.
[22:14:03] <furrywolf> plus side is it'll do 50A for a million or so years. :)
[22:14:28] <ssi> and when copper breaks $500/lb for scrap you can sell it for a small fortune :D
[22:14:42] <pcw_home> No homing is one advantage of absolute multiturn encoders (AC servo commutation without requiring Hall signals is another)
[22:14:57] <ssi> yeah servo commutation is a good benefit
[22:15:00] <Tom_itx> evening pcw_home
[22:15:10] <pcw_home> Evening
[22:16:09] <Tom_itx> mind if i pm?
[22:16:39] <pcw_home> np
[22:17:00] <XXCoder> only one pm or it turns into pms :P
[22:17:16] <pcw_home> Fanuc pulse coders have absolute battery backed multiturn + a absolute commutation track
[22:17:57] <pcw_home> Many newer AC servo drives use serial absolute encoders
[22:18:00] <furrywolf> http://members.shaw.ca/SWSTUFF/spindle-encoder.html I need to build something like that. I plan on metal, not blue. :)
[22:18:03] <ssi> my fanuc encoders are quadrature plus the 4 bit greycode commutation track
[22:18:40] <ssi> I still haven't sorted out the commutation on them :P
[22:18:44] <ssi> been too busy to mess with it
[22:19:24] <pcw_home> Yeah those are 80s/early 90s
[22:19:28] <ssi> '93
[22:19:40] <ssi> is the vmc's birth anyway
[22:20:07] <furrywolf> I just need quadrature and index... don't need absolute to synchronize threading.
[22:20:23] <ssi> you don't even really need quadrature for that
[22:20:33] <ssi> you can do spindle synchronized motion with just an index pulse
[22:21:03] <pcw_home> sort of synchronized anyway
[22:21:21] <ssi> it's ok for threading
[22:21:24] <ssi> probably not great for rigid tapping
[22:22:08] <furrywolf> I'd be worried about the accuracy... with two levels of v-belt reduction, backlash and slip are facts of life, and with chinese motors, marginal power is a given, and the speed might change noticably when the cutter digs in.
[22:22:17] <pcw_home> well unless the load changes the spindle speed...
[22:22:18] <ssi> oh I'd be worried about the accuracy to
[22:22:28] <ssi> that's why i did a 32 slot disk on the g0602 :)
[22:22:34] <ssi> and I have a full on resolver on the HNC
[22:23:16] <Tom_itx> pcw_home would i get finer res with the spindle dac on the 7i47S?
[22:23:42] <pcw_home> maybe better linearity
[22:23:59] <pcw_home> (the PWM has 12 bit resolution)
[22:24:00] <Tom_itx> i'm not sure what DAC they use on this board but i ended up at 1.4khz i think
[22:24:25] <pcw_home> cheap Optos probably
[22:24:29] <Tom_itx> i'm sure
[22:24:44] <Tom_itx> i had to prove i could make it work though :)
[22:25:55] <pcw_home> Must have worked with the correct setup but I guess they didnt give you much clue what that was
[22:26:05] <Tom_itx> nope
[22:26:11] <Tom_itx> and the example was parport
[22:27:33] <pcw_home> I really dislike OPTOs in general and have replaced them where possible with AD isolators
[22:28:13] <pcw_home> Their still the most cost effective thing some places though
[22:28:19] <ssi> god it's only 11
[22:29:00] <pcw_home> Its only 8
[22:29:05] <ssi> indeed
[22:29:37] <ssi> it's only 0400Z :P
[22:29:45] <ssi> I'm working nights this weekend
[22:29:53] <ssi> eating at 4:30p and then working 5 to 1 is rough
[22:29:56] <ssi> hungry right about now
[22:30:19] <Tom_itx> i'm stuffed
[22:30:25] <furrywolf> ... I haven't used geda in a while. tried opening a .sch file found online. "Found an invalid color [ Horizontal, grid 5 mm, outline 7.5 x 7.5 mm ]". I see it still doesn't suck any less than it did before.
[22:30:27] <Tom_itx> after PF Chang's
[22:30:32] <ssi> lucky you :P
[22:30:38] <furrywolf> gschem
[22:30:39] <pcw_home> that Z is making me sleepy
[22:30:47] <pcw_home> 'nite
[22:30:51] <ssi> night pcw
[22:32:30] <furrywolf> what do I download to show http://members.shaw.ca/SWSTUFF/spindle-enc-ps.sch ? gschem seems to think it can, but can't.
[22:32:48] <ssi> eagle maybe?
[22:33:07] <furrywolf> isn't eagle non-free?
[22:33:14] <Tom_itx> eagle also uses .sch
[22:33:23] <Tom_itx> it would open the file either way
[22:33:23] <ssi> eh, sorta
[22:33:26] <ssi> and yes, eagle opens it
[22:33:37] <Tom_itx> you're just limited on new boards
[22:33:46] <Tom_itx> not sure you could edit it though
[22:34:10] <ssi> furrywolf: you want me to send you a pdf?
[22:34:11] <renesis> eagle is free with limited board size and schematic sheets
[22:34:40] <renesis> personal licenses are pretty cheap, full blown eagle is one of the cheaper EDA packages
[22:34:45] <furrywolf> that would be free-as-in-beer only...
[22:34:51] <ssi> I have a full blown eagle license these days :D
[22:34:58] <ssi> it's about $1k
[22:34:59] <renesis> not even that if you want it functional
[22:35:08] <renesis> they allso have respectable copy protection
[22:35:13] <renesis> like, it works
[22:35:15] <Tom_itx> i don't mind eagle
[22:35:18] <ssi> I lived with the 160x100mm board size limit for a long time
[22:35:22] <renesis> yeah its good stuff
[22:35:25] <ssi> yeah eagle is a pretty decent package
[22:35:32] <Tom_itx> i've got an older unlimited ver
[22:35:39] <Tom_itx> haven't updated it
[22:35:50] <ssi> I'm pretty sure my license is for 7
[22:35:59] <ssi> I had a client buy it for me back in november
[22:36:05] <Tom_itx> yeah i remember
[22:36:12] <ssi> cause they wanted me to work on some bigger boards that one of their staff engineers designed
[22:38:24] <ssi> so I got this little spartan6 dev board
[22:38:28] <ssi> made by a company called Scarab Hardware
[22:38:47] <ssi> it's got an LX9 on it, a bunch of sdram and flash, two hdmi ports, and usb jtag
[22:39:10] <ssi> I'm gonna use it to develop firmware for the next gen commutation converter
[22:39:18] <ssi> then I'm gonna design and spin a new board
[22:39:57] <ssi> my last design didn't work out because I didn't give myself enough slack in the design :/
[22:41:10] <furrywolf> argh. I'm trying to download a schematic file converter. it seems to be ungodly huge. how the heck can a python script be dozens of megabytes?
[22:41:22] <ssi> just to view that scheme?
[22:41:28] <ssi> lemme put this pdf up for you
[22:41:42] <XXCoder> yet another battery http://www.theverge.com/2015/2/13/8033691/why-teslas-battery-for-your-home-should-terrify-utilities
[22:41:46] <XXCoder> lets see what happens
[22:42:11] <furrywolf> ... how would a home battery terrify utilities? a battery doesn't make power, just store it.
[22:42:13] <ssi> furrywolf: http://www.prototechnical.com/~imcmahon/spindle-enc-ps.pdf
[22:42:27] <XXCoder> furrywolf: makes solar power and such more worth it
[22:43:07] <XXCoder> also, store low demend power pay cheaply then use em during peak hours
[22:43:19] <ssi> that shouldn't terrify utilities
[22:43:22] <ssi> it should make them happy
[22:43:22] <furrywolf> ... that's a stupidly useless schematic. lol
[22:43:38] <ssi> it's much easier on the grid if power usage is uniform
[22:43:50] <XXCoder> yeah but lkess profit
[22:43:58] <XXCoder> its all about green (usa)
[22:44:00] <ssi> lower price doesn't mean lower profit
[22:44:13] <ssi> people who are into green shit are usually bad at economics :P
[22:44:42] <furrywolf> I'll be happy when I see a battery that, over its life, stores more energy than you could buy with the same amount of money.
[22:44:51] <furrywolf> current batteries do NOT do this.
[22:44:58] <XXCoder> yeah
[22:45:01] <ssi> there you go introducing economics into the situation
[22:45:04] <XXCoder> someday maybe
[22:48:22] <furrywolf> let's say you buy a deepcycle battery for $200 that stores 12v at 200Ah. to make it last more than a month, you only discharge it 50%, 100Ah, and say you get to do this 1000 times (very optimisitic). 1000*12v*100ah = 1200kwh. 1200kwh * $0.07 (national average) = $84. Your $200 battery only stored $84 of electricty throughout its entire life. you could have skipped the batteries and bought the electricity, more than twice over.
[22:48:33] <renesis> ssi: 7805 w/o reverse bias diode across it is bad sauce
[22:48:41] <ssi> renesis: it's not my schematic :)
[22:48:54] <renesis> k
[22:48:55] <ssi> I just opened it and pdf'd it for fw
[22:49:13] <ssi> furrywolf: 7c/kwh sounds low
[22:49:18] <furrywolf> I figured the schematic might contain something interesting... "apply 5v to the sensors and wire the output to the parport" isn't something I'd draw a schematic for. lol
[22:49:25] <ssi> but your point is very valid
[22:50:15] <ssi> "The average price people in the U.S. pay for electricity is about 12 cents per kilowatt-hour. ("
[22:50:26] <ssi> that's more in line with my understanding
[22:50:31] <ssi> 12-15c is usually what I figure
[22:50:48] <ssi> "Idaho had the lowest price, at about 8 cents per kWh. "
[22:51:21] <furrywolf> hrmm, I must be remembering an old figure. just found a current one, for 2014, of 10.42 cents/kwh.
[22:51:54] <furrywolf> $125 instead of $84. still less than just the cost of the battery, not to mention the extra bits needed to use batteries.
[22:52:00] <ssi> at work they installed some ev charging stations in the parking deck
[22:52:08] <ssi> and they are free for four hours, and $20/hr after that
[22:52:22] <ssi> got me doing research on ev chargers and some back of the envelope math
[22:52:35] <XXCoder> HMM make capactors as batteries, charge only 5 min lol
[22:52:37] <ssi> if they were level 3 chargers, which are like 70kw chargers, that'd be a reasonable deal
[22:52:40] <furrywolf> and your math showed that electric vehicles do not pay for themselves? :)
[22:52:44] <XXCoder> too bad cap capacity is shit
[22:52:48] <ssi> but they're level 2 chargers, 6350w
[22:53:04] <ssi> AND, the 6350w is split between two outlets
[22:53:10] <ssi> so if two people charge at once you only get half that
[22:53:13] <witnit_> found a nice router table, outta do some foam or something http://www.ebay.com/itm/72-x-108-GIDDING-LEWIS-HYDROSTATIC-ROTARY-TABLE-72-CNC-CROSS-SLIDE-/121129925283?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item1c33e7faa3
[22:53:19] <ssi> a leaf takes about 7.5hr to fully charge at 6350W
[22:53:44] <ssi> so if your commute comes close to fully depleting your battery, the charger at work could cost you $80 or more A DAY
[22:53:47] <ssi> hahahahahah
[22:53:47] <furrywolf> every time I've done the math, I've found that the battery cost alone exceeds the cost of purchasing gasoline to drive the same distance as the total lifetime of the battery, even with highly optimistic figures.
[22:53:51] <XXCoder> witnit_: cut wood with it? heh
[22:53:55] <witnit_> :)
[22:53:57] <ssi> yeah
[22:54:09] <ssi> well I did some more figuring, and at 12c/kwh, EVs cost about 3c/mile
[22:54:15] <ssi> in electricity alone
[22:54:21] <furrywolf> ignore the electricity cost, and look at the battery cost.
[22:54:22] <XXCoder> nice
[22:54:26] <ssi> oh I know
[22:54:35] <XXCoder> did you include inital cost
[22:54:40] <ssi> my car is about 7c/mile at current fuel prices
[22:54:43] <ssi> maybe less
[22:55:03] <ssi> so I figure that if there were level 3 quick charge stations around, enough you could actually use an EV practically beyond commuting
[22:55:07] <XXCoder> my van should be at 20 mpog but with issues its at 17.3 mpg so lemme calculate cost
[22:55:25] <ssi> the overhead of the expensive high-current chargers, plus the overhead of the "filling stations" and their profit margins etc
[22:55:30] <ssi> could easily double the cost of the raw power
[22:55:33] <ssi> call it 6c/mile
[22:55:34] <XXCoder> ~12 cant per mile for my van
[22:55:37] <ssi> now wtf is the point
[22:55:42] <XXCoder> cent
[22:55:45] <furrywolf> I want a subaru diesel. 60mpg in a full-size awd suv.
[22:55:52] <XXCoder> elio
[22:55:57] <XXCoder> 84 mpg
[22:56:02] <XXCoder> too bad it wont be out till 2016
[22:56:03] <ssi> furrywolf: I'll believe that when I see it
[22:56:07] <ssi> I get 55mpg in my diesel
[22:56:12] <ssi> but it's not awd, and it's not an suv
[22:56:18] <ssi> and awd is a HUGE fuel penalty
[22:56:20] <ssi> my last car was awd
[22:56:38] <furrywolf> ssi: it's been on the market for something like 8 years, and has been shown repeatedly. top gear even did a test of it, got something like 65mpg.
[22:56:42] <XXCoder> van. big thing with big engine. even good condition 21 mpg isnt good
[22:56:53] <furrywolf> apparantly subaru has a prototype forester that gets 80mpg!
[22:57:06] <ssi> furrywolf: I mean real mileage. I did 812 miles on a single tank, took 14.2 gal to fill up after
[22:57:14] <ssi> 57.9mpg across the tank is real mileage
[22:57:18] <XXCoder> damn
[22:57:22] <ssi> I can get 200mpg in idealized conditions
[22:57:32] <XXCoder> I cant even go over 280 miles full tank of 16 gal
[22:57:37] <furrywolf> ssi: top gear did a miles-until-out-of-fuel test driving on uk roads, not a track.
[22:57:39] <renesis> i get 32 ideal
[22:57:49] <renesis> my cars like nomnomgasnom
[22:58:23] <ssi> https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Bog4rilIIAAQs7j.jpg:large
[22:58:34] <ssi> note the 401.4 trip odometer, and better than half tank
[22:58:35] <renesis> i <3 top gear but theyre not exactly known for honest testing
[22:58:36] <ssi> that's miles since full
[22:59:12] <ssi> nominal 13 gal tank
[22:59:14] <ssi> :D
[22:59:21] <furrywolf> renesis: their tests match other people's.
[22:59:25] <ssi> I've been extremely happy with my diesel
[22:59:35] <ssi> put 43k on it since november 2013 :/
[22:59:48] <ssi> drove it to california and back in may of last year
[22:59:54] <renesis> furrywolf: thats good, they lied about the tesla roadster
[22:59:57] <ssi> overall average was 44.5mpg over 6500 miles
[23:00:02] <renesis> i think they ended up apologizing
[23:00:08] <ssi> and that was with highway speeds 85+ the whole way
[23:00:11] <XXCoder> https://4wheelonlineblog.files.wordpress.com/2014/07/elio2.jpg first prototype for elio.
[23:00:18] <XXCoder> http://netdna.coolthings.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/05/Elio-car-3.jpg second prototype. ugly!
[23:00:20] <renesis> and its an entertainment show
[23:00:23] <ssi> >65mph kills economy in a hurry
[23:00:34] <XXCoder> current http://media.cmgdigital.com/shared/img/photos/2015/02/04/3d/d1/a_elio.png
[23:00:50] <ssi> XXCoder: that's horrible looking :)
[23:00:59] <XXCoder> which one? green one I agree!
[23:01:01] <renesis> yeah srsly
[23:01:07] <renesis> but the last one is least horrible
[23:01:12] <furrywolf> yes, the elio is one of the ugliest and least practical vehicles ever considered.
[23:01:37] <ssi> my car is a real car that you can put real people in and go places
[23:01:39] <ssi> AND HAUL MACHINES
[23:01:40] <ssi> https://pbs.twimg.com/media/B3j0s6ZIQAA_KpF.jpg:large
[23:01:40] <ssi> :D
[23:01:48] <ssi> got 39mpg over 120 miles hauling that lathe
[23:01:58] <XXCoder> ssi: I miss my mecury sable 1988
[23:02:01] <renesis> honestly, mazdaspeed 3 is prob the most awesome most practical car
[23:02:09] <XXCoder> 16 mpg stinky but 3.8l large engine
[23:02:16] <XXCoder> plenty of power
[23:02:26] <ssi> diesel's the future
[23:02:27] <XXCoder> it was ugly bad paint but could beat brand new cars easily
[23:04:12] <XXCoder> too bad it was totaled https://fbcdn-sphotos-g-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-ash2/v/t1.0-9/221615_10151375329908253_817968195_n.jpg?oh=67d2785a380634582b8ef46922faa6d4&oe=554A95FC&__gda__=1432161454_6ce8df27a23cdac788a2c49bd1f8b755
[23:04:46] <furrywolf> I can't find a current mpg figure from the epa... only the one back from 2008 when subaru first thought about bring it to the US. in 2008 the epa gave it a 40.6mpg combined milage. the improved it since the first tests, and the epa figures are always low anyway...
[23:05:08] <XXCoder> it dont look too bad but I was almost killed. I would be if I didnt turn right so fast it hit almost flat in
[23:05:13] <ssi> yeah the epa numbers on my car are 30/42
[23:05:16] <XXCoder> 45 degrees in would be fatal
[23:05:16] <ssi> and it does way better than that
[23:05:27] <ssi> the chevy cruze diesel's epa numbers are better by like 1mpg
[23:05:31] <ssi> and in reality it's WORSE
[23:05:47] <ssi> the theory is that the government is fudging the numbers to make the government motors product look better
[23:06:00] <zeeshan-mill> lalala
[23:06:04] <zeeshan-mill> time to test rigid tapping
[23:06:07] <XXCoder> ssi: isnt some is tested and some is report from company
[23:06:16] <zeeshan-mill> anyone got some sample g-code
[23:06:19] <zeeshan-mill> for rigid tapping
[23:06:38] <XXCoder> g83 x0. y0.
[23:06:48] <furrywolf> subaru has a prototype that gets 89MPG.
[23:06:53] <XXCoder> repeat, changing x by .2 or something lol
[23:07:10] <XXCoder> then finally g80 as well as m30 lool
[23:07:33] <XXCoder> actually next few lines if peck drills dont need g83 repeated
[23:07:41] <XXCoder> *of
[23:07:43] <zeeshan-mill> rigid tappin!
[23:07:44] <zeeshan-mill> g33.1
[23:08:12] <XXCoder> thought 33 was threading
[23:08:20] <XXCoder> or was that 73 (and one other number)
[23:08:22] <furrywolf> heh, a subaru diesel engine swap into a vw vanagon got 27.4mpg on a >2k mile trip.
[23:08:59] <ssi> subaru doesn't even have any diesels on the market in the us do they
[23:09:05] <furrywolf> nope
[23:09:08] <furrywolf> the US doesn't want them.
[23:09:24] <furrywolf> subaru tried in 2008, but gave up.
[23:09:36] <ssi> VW's been selling a blue million of them
[23:09:44] <ssi> they probably didn't want to meet the new emissions standardss :P
[23:09:59] <XXCoder> good luck getting good mpg stuff into usa
[23:10:23] <ssi> vwag reported selling 100,000 diesels between vw and audi in the US in 2013
[23:10:33] <furrywolf> the milage figures are most impressive when you realize the forester is an all-wheel-drive SUV, not a tiny crapbox economy car like a vw, or a glorified gokart like the elio...
[23:10:49] <ssi> s/impressive/dubious/ :)
[23:11:43] <jdh> my yukon xl is an all-wheel drive suv, not a tiny crapbox economy car like a forester
[23:11:49] <furrywolf> ... they've been proven by government tests in both the uk and the us, people's experiences, and television shows... even people who swap them into other vehicles get excellent milage.
[23:11:52] <ssi> also my "tiny crapbox economy car" has more interior space than a forester
[23:12:11] <ssi> and probabyl more towing capacity :P
[23:12:18] <ssi> HAH YEP
[23:12:19] <jdh> oh yeah
[23:12:21] <XXCoder> ssi: elio have huge interior car for tiny car
[23:12:21] <ssi> 1,500 lbs
[23:12:22] <ssi> 2015 Subaru Forester, Towing capacity
[23:12:27] <ssi> mine's 2000lb
[23:12:33] <XXCoder> BIG football pro player can fit in with good room
[23:12:39] <ssi> tiny crapbox economy car ftmfw
[23:12:52] <furrywolf> swapping them into volkswagon vans is annoyingly popular (why do people like them so much?), and they generally get 27-35mpg, pushing a brick through the air, with a badly mismatched transmission that's geared for a gas motor and misses proper cruising rpms.
[23:12:53] <zeeshan-mill> looks like rigid tapping is working
[23:12:56] <zeeshan-mill> !!!!!1
[23:12:57] <jdh> Towing capacity: 6,000 to 8,100 lbs
[23:13:24] <XXCoder> http://blog.eliomotors.com/yes-you-will-fit-in-the-elio-9514/
[23:13:29] <ssi> jdh: haha thing is, I can tow 8000lb behind my car in four trips on less fuel than your yukon :)
[23:13:43] <jdh> yeah, but you can't tow my boat.
[23:13:57] <ssi> probably can, just not "legally"
[23:14:05] <jdh> s/tow/stop/
[23:14:14] <ssi> changing the rules on me
[23:14:15] <ssi> heheh
[23:14:27] <ssi> that's why god created trailer brakes!
[23:14:34] <furrywolf> and it's not too slow either... 154hp, 280ftlbs. not going to win races, but it's certainly not a slow vehicle.
[23:14:42] <jdh> trailer brakes don't last in saltwater
[23:15:13] <XXCoder> lol http://www.csectioncomics.com/csectioncomics/comics-archive/2013-12-12-annual-archeology-convention-of-2500-256c.png
[23:15:21] <jdh> mine also exists.
[23:15:27] <furrywolf> I can tow anything in my truck... just don't expect it to go very fast. :P
[23:15:42] <XXCoder> my old car sure can tow lots
[23:15:59] <furrywolf> and I'd need to dig air brake parts out of storage if your trailer has gladhands.
[23:16:03] <XXCoder> 3.8L engine, as large as 1 or maybe 1.5 ton truck engine
[23:18:34] <furrywolf> the aussies gave the diesel an average rating of 5.7l/100km, or 41.3mpg
[23:19:20] <furrywolf> again, keeping in mind this is a 4x4 SUV, not a gokart with a fairing.
[23:19:36] <ssi> is it fulltime awd?
[23:19:54] <furrywolf> yes
[23:20:05] <furrywolf> with, if I remember right, a computer-controlled variable center diff.
[23:20:24] <ssi> my last car was fulltime awd with haldex variable center
[23:20:24] <furrywolf> so if you start spinning, it starts locking...
[23:20:29] <ssi> and it was like a 30% fuel penalty
[23:20:40] <ssi> it was awesome, but the fuel economy sucked
[23:20:49] <ssi> it was also 425hp, fwiw: P
[23:20:53] <furrywolf> and yet subaru still gets >40mpg. :P
[23:21:09] <ssi> so quit masturbating over it and buy one already
[23:21:16] <furrywolf> they're illegal. :(
[23:21:21] <ssi> wonder why :P
[23:21:40] <XXCoder> usa emissions laws
[23:21:44] <furrywolf> why? because a lot of politicians have friends at large oil companies, I suspect. :P
[23:21:46] <XXCoder> most likely amuwau
[23:21:50] <XXCoder> anyway
[23:21:57] <ssi> hasn't stopped all the other manufacturers
[23:22:20] <furrywolf> the motor is starting to get affordable to import... when one of my subarus needs an engine, I might get one.
[23:22:33] <XXCoder> nice
[23:23:07] <furrywolf> the reports I've heard are that the motor is bulletproof, with the only common failure being cracked flywheels.
[23:24:06] <furrywolf> I put a '96 motor into one of my subarus, so obviously I don't mind putting used parts in. :)
[23:24:41] * furrywolf still needs to take it to the exhaust shop... it's a little not having anything past the cats.
[23:25:22] <furrywolf> a little loud
[23:44:32] <furrywolf> bbl, wolfy bedtime