#linuxcnc | Logs for 2015-02-07

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[00:00:49] <zeeshan|2> damn you youtube
[00:00:51] <zeeshan|2> process faster
[00:00:56] <PetefromTn_andro> I'm assuming it's a little cnc router table or something right
[00:01:40] <Tom_itx> zeeshan|2 i think i found something that will work on my driver
[00:01:45] <zeeshan|2> what?
[00:01:55] <EO_> lemme fix up this tool in the CAM software
[00:02:02] <EO_> it's so small it's not visible right now
[00:02:04] <zeeshan|2> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5QQfT-neTz0
[00:02:05] <EO_> (0.125mm!)
[00:02:10] <atom1> KB ELECTRONICS SIGNAL ISOLATOR KBSI-240D
[00:02:13] <zeeshan|2> tjtr33: looks normal no?
[00:02:16] <atom1> one of those
[00:03:27] <EO_> http://i.imgur.com/RdJchTZ.png <-- nope, tool's defined properly...but it got loaded in mm vs inches?!
[00:04:45] <RyanS> would you dare lift this with a mobile engine crane? http://www.machineryhouse.com.au/L682D
[00:04:53] <zeeshan|2> tom what are you trying to do?
[00:04:58] <zeeshan|2> isolate what from what
[00:05:07] <Tom_itx> connect the 10v DAC to the driver
[00:05:16] <Tom_itx> without it shorting things out
[00:05:20] <zeeshan|2> DAC?
[00:05:27] <Tom_itx> the analog 0-10v
[00:05:28] <zeeshan|2> from mesa ?
[00:05:28] <tjtr33> zeeshan|2, looks normal to me, but the blink on fast turns, i'm still thinking about. maybe just crappy test connections.
[00:05:29] <zeeshan|2> okay
[00:05:30] <roycroft> ruans: yes
[00:05:38] <Tom_itx> from mesa or the board you sent me
[00:05:42] <roycroft> ryans, rather
[00:05:46] <zeeshan|2> tjtr33: im thinking by me turning it faster
[00:05:51] <zeeshan|2> the motor is becoming a generator
[00:05:57] <zeeshan|2> and starting to charge the battery its hooked up to
[00:06:08] <zeeshan|2> er
[00:06:10] <zeeshan|2> that doesnt make sense
[00:06:15] <EO_> Where are machine limits defined vs. soft limits? All I know of are the MIN_LIMIT and MAX_LIMIT under each AXIS_n in INI
[00:06:18] <zeeshan|2> it'd be like 2 voltage sources with a load between them
[00:06:44] <atom1> zeeshan|2, i think that would allow it to work
[00:06:58] <zeeshan|2> why cant you connect it directly tom
[00:07:00] <atom1> since the GND is floating ont he driver
[00:07:21] <atom1> because the GND is 66v above frame GND on my control
[00:07:39] <PetefromTn_andro> Ryan I have moved a 12x36 several times with my engine crane
[00:07:40] <atom1> i need an isolated link between them
[00:07:49] <atom1> that's what this board does
[00:07:58] <zeeshan|2> you can move that with a crane easily
[00:08:06] <Crom_> well coming in from my phone didn't work so good
[00:08:09] <zeeshan|2> you just have to be damn careful you center the straps correctly
[00:08:10] <PetefromTn_andro> On the stand and off of it.
[00:08:29] <zeeshan|2> or you can use a load balancer.
[00:08:30] <zeeshan|2> to help you out
[00:08:33] <tjtr33> EO_, the soft linits are defined in ini file, the hard limits are not defined, they exist but have no record in files. the soft limits simply should be inside the hard limits.
[00:08:38] <RyanS> how many slings?
[00:08:41] <roycroft> two slings
[00:08:51] <Crom_> ugh lemme go kill my phone
[00:08:53] <zeeshan|2> honestly ive done it with 1 sling too
[00:08:56] <zeeshan|2> but you have the center the load correctly.
[00:09:01] <PetefromTn_andro> I wrapped a large web strap around the bed and used the carriage to adjust the weight balance
[00:09:03] <zeeshan|2> its dangerous though.
[00:09:06] <roycroft> and the instructions should show you where to put the slings, and where to put the carriage
[00:09:22] <EO_> tjtr33: how do they exist without definition?
[00:09:29] <roycroft> if not, download the manual for any other 12x36 and it will tell you
[00:09:55] <zeeshan|2> theres a bolt for the tail stock from falling off
[00:10:00] <zeeshan|2> ive mounted a chain there before
[00:10:13] <zeeshan|2> and theres a another m10 or m12 threaded hole ne ar the spindle
[00:10:14] <PetefromTn_andro> Just moved my new cnc lathe...a14x40 across the shop by myself the same way
[00:10:15] <zeeshan|2> towars the bottom
[00:10:17] <zeeshan|2> i used a chain there too
[00:10:28] <EO_> tjtr33: If you look at Screenshot-1, it shows 2 different types of limit errors. I suspect one is for soft (since it says soft) and the other is for hard limit? But I dunno...
[00:10:45] <RyanS> and do you need a bar or just the one hook on the crane?
[00:11:18] <tjtr33> EO_, they exist in space, and in between them is the home position, once home is referenced the soft limits keep you from touching the hard limits. so they exist, without any numeric representation in the machine config.
[00:11:18] <zeeshan|2> http://images.wiltec.info/50/50798/50798.jpg
[00:11:55] <EO_> tjtr33: oh, ok. so it's a concept I needn't worry about in the software.
[00:12:08] <tjtr33> yes
[00:12:20] <EO_> tjtr33: So given the software only knows about soft limits, what's the deal with the different messages? http://bartk.us/dump/Screenshot-1.png <-- lower right
[00:12:32] <zeeshan|2> tjtr33: i guess this motor is ok? :)
[00:12:37] <EO_> tjtr33: those 2 messages were generated by me touching off Z at different heights
[00:13:10] <zeeshan|2> http://i130.photobucket.com/albums/p252/turbozee84/lathe/lathe.jpg
[00:13:13] <zeeshan|2> thats my buddy
[00:13:17] <zeeshan|2> but thats where imounted the strap
[00:14:00] <zeeshan|2> you just gotta balance the load with your hand
[00:14:02] <XXCoder> engine lift. genius
[00:14:03] <zeeshan|2> so it doesnt slide down
[00:14:06] <tjtr33> EO_, simplify your program to just the lines in sreentshot, then remove the ToolLenght and eliminate it as the cause.
[00:14:36] <Crom_> is that a Myford?
[00:14:37] <EO_> tjtr33: how do I eliminate the tool length? I don't see anywhere in the code where it's defined. I think it got pulled in by a pervious g-code file I had opened?
[00:14:45] <zeeshan|2> no 12x36 china import
[00:14:52] <PetefromTn_andro> Well the first message shows that you actually hit the limit. You can select a different view and see if the yellow lines your cutter path made go below the red boundary
[00:15:20] <PetefromTn_andro> Open the tool table editor
[00:15:42] <PetefromTn_andro> Select the tool and delete all the entries
[00:15:46] <Crom_> hmm all my lathe pictures are on Yahoo groups sheldon lathes
[00:15:46] <EO_> PetefromTn_andro: wait, hit or exceeded? if you home @ 0,0,0 are you not allowed to go to 0,0,0 in code?
[00:15:51] <tjtr33> zeeshan|2, yes the motor looks ok to me, you should be able to make it turn with a car battery, no tacho connection, no other connection
[00:15:54] <PetefromTn_andro> Then hit save
[00:16:03] <RyanS> zeesh wow that is the centre of mass
[00:16:10] <zeeshan|2> ryan yea approx
[00:16:21] <zeeshan|2> you'll find it hwen you lift it
[00:16:31] <zeeshan|2> if you dont have straps
[00:16:34] <zeeshan|2> you can use seat belts
[00:16:35] <zeeshan|2> :)
[00:16:41] <PetefromTn_andro> Make sure you click reload the tool table to ensure it takes effect
[00:16:53] <zeeshan|2> tjtr33: i put money on this
[00:16:57] <zeeshan|2> that asap i hook up drive
[00:17:02] <zeeshan|2> hook up motor to drive
[00:17:05] <zeeshan|2> itll blow up the drive lol
[00:17:26] <RyanS> Why is there a bar in the chuck?
[00:17:32] <zeeshan|2> no idea
[00:17:34] <zeeshan|2> came with the lathe
[00:17:35] <zeeshan|2> lol
[00:17:35] <PetefromTn_andro> Where is your home position on the z axis
[00:17:48] <Tom_itx> zeeshan|2, i think this should work ok: http://tom-itx.no-ip.biz:81/~webpage/cnc/PDF/kbsi_240d_manual.pdf
[00:18:12] <zeeshan|2> tom how much is that
[00:18:21] <Tom_itx> depends
[00:18:24] <EO_> PetefromTn_andro: k, I deleted all the tools except #9999, saved the tool table, and told it to reload the tool table. I still have tool 1, with the same offset :/
[00:18:26] <Tom_itx> 20-100 ebay
[00:18:59] <Tom_itx> i'm gonna try it
[00:19:02] <witnit_> im just using a really poor mini laptop for testing and setting up my hm2_eth card, however its constantly tripping the watchdog, how do i disable the watchdog?
[00:19:05] <PetefromTn_andro> No I didn't mean to delete all the tools just the one you are using
[00:19:08] <zeeshan|2> buy a be25a20ac drive
[00:19:10] <zeeshan|2> and ditch this all! :P
[00:19:20] <EO_> PetefromTn_andro: that's fine, all the other tools were nonsense.
[00:19:24] <Tom_itx> you're down on those... remember?
[00:19:24] <tjtr33> EO_, i agree you didnt load the tool, and didnt get to that line yet, tool lenght should not be your problem.
[00:19:31] <zeeshan|2> haha Tom_itx
[00:19:39] <PetefromTn_andro> You might have to open the editor and do it in the editor
[00:19:41] <XXCoder> wonder if tool zero setting would cause this error to happen
[00:19:53] <XXCoder> I know I once ruined one part by that lol
[00:20:02] <Tom_itx> zeeshan|2 can i limit the voltage for the 90v dc motor with one of those?
[00:20:14] <zeeshan|2> oh i forgot about that
[00:20:15] <zeeshan|2> sorry
[00:20:15] <zeeshan|2> :P
[00:20:31] <EO_> tjtr33: btw, any idea what "exceeded positive limit" means on an axis that's define MIN_LIMIT=-80, MAX_LIMIT=0 ? is that trying to go to +2 or something?
[00:20:53] <witnit_> the limit is 0, and your are going to 2
[00:21:00] <witnit_> try putting the limit at 5
[00:21:13] <EO_> line 6 is actually trying to go to Z0
[00:21:32] <EO_> but it was just an example..cuz I have my "minimum" Z at the top of Z travel
[00:21:39] <EO_> whereas normally Z goes positiev the higher you go
[00:21:46] <EO_> so I'm not sure what "positive limit" is referring to in the message
[00:21:55] <PetefromTn_andro> Did you get the errors when you're touching off or when you loaded the program
[00:22:02] <Tecan> http://i.imgur.com/VaveMWp.jpg
[00:22:11] <Tecan> http://i.imgur.com/w0lWBe9.jpg << takes up a little bit of desk space but worth it
[00:22:27] <EO_> PetefromTn_andro: It's when I try to run the program, after touching off.
[00:22:58] <witnit_> what line is causing the error?
[00:23:05] <EO_> witnit_: line 6
[00:23:11] <witnit_> what is on line 6?
[00:23:21] <EO_> http://bartk.us/dump/Screenshot-1.png <-- it's all visible here
[00:24:09] <witnit_> contour action is forcing you beyond your limit?
[00:24:25] <EO_> I just tried the command in MDI
[00:24:35] <witnit_> like trajectory is calling for excess of 0?
[00:24:38] <EO_> "G53 G0 Z0." <-- causing the same "positive limit" error
[00:24:49] <tjtr33> EO_, gotta do the math, line 6 moves to Z0 in machine coords, you are at -26mm (machine cords right now and Z0 in relativeright now ). so +12mm from where you are now is -14mm in machine coords,
[00:25:01] <tjtr33> which sounds fine to me, but not to linuxcnc
[00:25:05] <tjtr33> thats the quandry
[00:25:15] <zeeshan|2> tjtr33: think i should take the motor apart
[00:25:20] <zeeshan|2> and clean the commutator
[00:25:49] <tjtr33> zeeshan|2, cleaning is good, cleaning is basic, cleaning is what the interweb sez is the most common fault
[00:25:56] <zeeshan|2> yea
[00:25:58] <EO_> tjtr33: I see the problem, hold on
[00:26:19] <zeeshan|2> tjtr33: have you taken one apart?
[00:26:27] <EO_> tjtr33: http://bartk.us/dump/Screenshot-4.png <-- check out my MDI commands. the last 2 product the errors shown!
[00:26:30] <tjtr33> zee lotsa starter motors
[00:26:43] <zeeshan|2> the only thing im confused about is
[00:26:47] <zeeshan|2> do you remove the brushes first
[00:26:49] <zeeshan|2> and then disassemble?
[00:26:55] <zeeshan|2> cause otherwise the brushes will just fall in
[00:26:56] <EO_> So I can move to Z-0.001, but not Z0
[00:27:09] <EO_> But I sure as hell can JOG to Z0
[00:27:14] <EO_> Just not G-code to Z0
[00:27:20] <witnit_> just move your limits
[00:27:24] <witnit_> unless they must be there
[00:27:34] <PetefromTn_andro> I had something like that happened on my vmc
[00:27:43] <tjtr33> like move em 1um
[00:27:49] <witnit_> are you out of travel Z1?
[00:27:50] <EO_> this is a fine idea
[00:27:55] <tjtr33> dang i ran into that one too
[00:27:57] <EO_> MAX_LIMIT=0.001
[00:28:06] <tjtr33> sorry i didnt remember
[00:28:14] <EO_> you have no idea how many hours...
[00:28:24] <EO_> Before I came crawling in here
[00:28:46] <witnit_> you were a thousandths off
[00:28:49] <witnit_> lull
[00:28:50] <EO_> It doesn't happen on conventionally defined axis, btw
[00:28:57] <EO_> MIN_LIMIT=0.0, you can totally G-code to
[00:29:01] <EO_> just affects MAX_LIMIT=0.0
[00:29:18] <EO_> perhaps a bug should be filed?
[00:29:18] <tjtr33> zee remove the brushes first, they sometimes undercut on the rotor and will hang it from coming out
[00:29:34] <zeeshan|2> ah okay
[00:29:49] <zeeshan|2> this will be a good learning exp
[00:29:50] <zeeshan|2> :-)
[00:30:06] <zeeshan|2> i actually wanna see how the brake works too
[00:30:07] <tjtr33> zeeshan|2, but dont tear it apart untill you just cleam and peek down into the brosh holes with light. just look first
[00:30:14] <zeeshan|2> ok good idea
[00:30:21] <zeeshan|2> just gotta take one brush out
[00:30:22] <zeeshan|2> and see
[00:30:26] <tjtr33> zeeshan|2, so the 2 wire connecotr is brake?
[00:30:26] <PetefromTn_andro> It's a good idea to mark the orientation of the brushes when you remove them
[00:30:36] <zeeshan|2> tjb1: no its part of 5 pin
[00:30:42] <zeeshan|2> PetefromTn_andro: yes
[00:30:58] <zeeshan|2> 5 pin = motor +, -, brake +,-, earth
[00:31:12] <zeeshan|2> tach 4 pin conn = tach + , tach -
[00:31:14] <zeeshan|2> 2 pins empty
[00:31:53] <tjtr33> zeeshan|2, brushes wear in , so dont put wrong ones in wrong holders, and not the direction they have cuved bottom, and not the spring length, on shorter one will not be making good contact....
[00:32:35] <tjtr33> zeeshan|2, ok so 5 pins for motor & brake & gnd, and the other 2 pin cnx is for tacho?
[00:32:49] <tjtr33> note the direction...
[00:32:53] <witnit_> thats a good find EO_ you may want to bring it up to -dev
[00:33:40] <witnit_> so you could g53 to min, but not max
[00:34:29] <PetefromTn_andro> Well goodnight
[00:34:36] * EO_ is trying to verify
[00:34:46] <tjtr33> me too gnite all
[00:36:11] <EO_> tool table POC?
[00:36:12] <EO_> what is that
[00:39:50] <EO_> jibbers crabst. That was totally it. Moving MAX_LIMIT to 0.001 (1 micron!) made the software happy.
[00:41:38] <Crom_> my dirty Sheldon named Sheldon http://postimg.org/gallery/1kdwpk72c/
[00:42:11] <XXCoder> EO_: so max_limit cannot be 0?
[00:43:12] <EO_> XXCoder: not if you expect to move to Z0 in G-code.
[00:43:31] <XXCoder> strange, whats chances of someone finding that bug
[00:43:34] <XXCoder> nice work
[00:44:15] <EO_> somewhere in the thousands of lines of code there's a < wishing it could be a <=
[00:44:23] <XXCoder> lol
[00:44:57] <XXCoder> heh reminds me of 8 hours debugging my code, it ended up lack of object->pointer = NULL; on init
[00:45:13] <XXCoder> bug was almost impossible to find, only one strange case exposed it
[00:45:35] <EO_> but you gotta figure other people define the top of their Z axis as 0, no/
[00:45:44] <EO_> cuz it's so handy to just say G0X0Y0Z0
[00:45:50] <XXCoder> indeed
[00:47:28] <zeeshan|2> lol
[00:47:30] <zeeshan|2> this motor has been rebuilt
[00:47:38] <zeeshan|2> i can see markings on it where they center punched it
[00:47:48] <zeeshan|2> commutator is clean
[00:47:55] <XXCoder> you sure its not mark from when built new?
[00:48:00] <zeeshan|2> yea dead sure
[00:48:03] <zeeshan|2> i just saw a tag on there too
[00:48:06] <XXCoder> ok
[00:50:10] <Crom_> my table is currently left front corner at the table is g0x0y0z-0.001
[00:50:41] <zeeshan|2> http://i11.photobucket.com/albums/a161/Stacker22/Motorlayout.jpg
[00:50:44] <zeeshan|2> my commutator looks like that
[00:51:07] <Crom_> zeeshan|2, get any MOV's yet? hehehe
[00:51:13] <zeeshan|2> haha no
[00:51:20] <zeeshan|2> i went to the store
[00:51:23] <zeeshan|2> they said "Crom bought them all"
[00:51:28] <zeeshan|2> :)
[00:51:56] <zeeshan|2> so motor is good
[00:52:05] <zeeshan|2> 2 conclusions:
[00:52:06] <Crom_> not lately.. I still have 1/2 a twinnings tea can full of 300v ones
[00:52:12] <zeeshan|2> l2 -> l1 fixed it
[00:53:02] <Crom_> ahhh controller was on l1 and the drivers were on l2?
[00:53:09] <zeeshan|2> nah z drive was on l2
[00:53:12] <zeeshan|2> i moved it to l1
[00:53:17] <zeeshan|2> where all the x and y drives are getting power from
[00:53:33] <Tom_itx> so you found a problem?
[00:53:41] <zeeshan|2> Tom_itx: nahh man
[00:53:43] <zeeshan|2> no problem w/ motor
[00:53:53] <Tom_itx> so you found a solution?
[00:53:54] <zeeshan|2> im glad these guys told me to inspect through brush slot
[00:53:58] <zeeshan|2> no not really yet man
[00:54:01] <zeeshan|2> only thing left is to hook up the motor
[00:54:04] <zeeshan|2> and cross my fingers
[00:54:49] <Tom_itx> was there an issue with l2?
[00:54:57] <zeeshan|2> honestly idont know
[00:55:02] <zeeshan|2> i rewired to l1
[00:55:02] <Tom_itx> what is l2?
[00:55:04] <zeeshan|2> didnt wanna take a chance
[00:55:15] <zeeshan|2> l1 and l2 are legs of the 240vac
[00:55:17] <zeeshan|2> split phased
[00:55:21] <Tom_itx> mmm
[00:55:29] <Crom_> z power leg was coming from other leg, so potencial between the motor and the controller was 240v...
[00:55:33] <Tom_itx> phase inverted from what you need?
[00:55:57] <Tom_itx> i parallel'd my transformers and had to be sure the phase was correct
[00:56:03] <zeeshan|2> crom not necessarily
[00:56:04] <Crom_> potential
[00:56:05] <zeeshan|2> l2 to n
[00:56:06] <zeeshan|2> is 120vac
[00:56:09] <Tom_itx> they get angry when they're not in phase
[00:56:26] <Crom_> l1 to l2 is 240v
[00:56:33] <zeeshan|2> crom yes
[00:56:39] <zeeshan|2> but i had l2 and n connected to drive
[00:56:52] <zeeshan|2> Tom_itx: you make a good point
[00:56:55] <Tom_itx> well i dunno what you're up to but good luck
[00:56:56] <zeeshan|2> the phases are 120 degrees apart
[00:56:58] <zeeshan|2> er
[00:57:03] <Tom_itx> i'm pooped
[00:57:05] <Tom_itx> gnite
[00:57:05] <zeeshan|2> 180 degrees
[00:57:07] <zeeshan|2> nitre
[00:57:22] <Tom_itx> my xformers got quite angry when the phase was out
[00:59:04] <Crom_> zeeshan|2, depends... some are 120 out if off a 3ph supply without going thru a transformer, others are off a single phase transformer so are 180 degrees out..
[00:59:14] <Tom_itx> i think i got my inhibit code ready too
[00:59:16] <zeeshan|2> yea i have single phase
[00:59:21] <zeeshan|2> tom sleep
[00:59:21] <zeeshan|2> lol
[00:59:27] <Tom_itx> so it resets when i reverse direction
[00:59:29] <zeeshan|2> no more thinking
[00:59:30] <EO_> alright, swarf is flyin!
[00:59:42] <Tom_itx> thinking is over.. just reflecting now
[00:59:58] <Tom_itx> i've written some of my best code at 3am
[01:00:56] <Crom_> zeeshan|2, "single phase" is actually 2 phases on 240v service or "1 phase" 2 of 3 in 208 service
[01:01:18] <zeeshan|2> im just trying to wrap this around my head
[01:01:26] <zeeshan|2> if you have 2 loads on l1 - n
[01:01:28] <zeeshan|2> l2 - n
[01:01:28] <Crom_> it gets fun working as electrician at oil refinery
[01:01:37] <zeeshan|2> and the l1 - n load switches first
[01:01:38] <Tom_itx> that's also where the idea of load balancing comes into play
[01:01:40] <zeeshan|2> before l2 - n.
[01:01:53] <zeeshan|2> i wonder what the neutral voltage is
[01:01:57] <zeeshan|2> it should always be 0
[01:02:09] <zeeshan|2> but if you have a load imbaalance, then it has voltage
[01:02:10] <Tom_itx> don't expect it to be
[01:02:15] <Tom_itx> i found that out tonight
[01:02:17] <zeeshan|2> hahaha
[01:02:24] <Tom_itx> check it
[01:02:50] <Tom_itx> zeeshan|2 i got one of those boards coming to try
[01:02:55] <zeeshan|2> nice
[01:03:00] <zeeshan|2> it should work out
[01:03:09] <Tom_itx> i'm determined to make this work
[01:03:27] <Tom_itx> or know why not
[01:05:36] <Crom_> checkout the hardware on this DMX board for zero crossing drivers. "http://www.hoelscher-hi.de/hendrik/english/dimmer.htm#zc detection"
[01:06:22] <Crom_> from the web page: This zero crossing detection is needed for syncing a microcontroller with the mains. The more precise the circuit works, the better is the resolution of the dimmer pack. Because of this, I tested lots of such devices...
[01:07:11] <Crom_> I also do theatrical lighting and sound as well
[01:07:38] <Crom_> MOV's definately required on that equipment!
[01:08:04] <Crom_> 1 light costs $400 a dimmer pack $120
[01:08:17] <Crom_> if they don't have them they get added
[01:08:48] <RyanS> not too rigid... http://conradhoffman.com/ballturner.htm
[01:11:02] <Crom_> though it does fit on a qctp
[01:11:26] <RyanS> Probably can't do steel
[01:15:26] <Crom_> it could definitely do mild steel slowly..
[01:17:00] <Crom_> but most balls I'd be cutting would be AL, copper, brass, or bronze
[01:18:02] <Crom_> really needs a way to lock the cutter to parallel with the bed for setting height.
[01:26:27] <Crom_> anyone running a mini-box.com LCD 20x2 on their machine
[01:28:40] <renesis> 09:21:10 < furrywolf> the problem I'm working on is how to get anything useful done when I'm exhausted all the time from work.
[01:28:49] <renesis> yeah real life sucks
[01:40:57] <anonimasu> morning
[01:41:48] <Crom_> evening anonimasu
[01:43:30] <anonimasu> today'swork.. finish up the plassmam wiring. all of it :)
[01:48:45] <anonimasu> I wonder if I should suck it up and add a probing head too while im at it
[01:51:50] <Crom_> anonimasu, totally dude! vinland.com
[01:52:13] <Crom_> in his project page he has a nice probe
[01:52:32] <anonimasu> I were thinking a optical sensor
[01:52:49] <anonimasu> anda
[01:52:55] <anonimasu> and a pneumatic arm
[01:53:21] <anonimasu> for plate rotation
[01:53:22] <Crom_> instead of ball bearings rig a photo interrupters instead...
[01:54:19] <anonimasu> it's just for the plasma
[01:54:24] <anonimasu> I have a probe for the small mill
[01:54:35] <anonimasu> the big mill will get a renishaw when I find a one on ebay
[01:55:03] <Crom_> find some interrupters wide and tall enough the side rods go in the trough and they raise and break the beam. It would actually be a bit less precise them the ball bearings
[01:55:33] <anonimasu> this is on a plasma
[01:59:25] <Crom_> or are you think head height checker
[01:59:57] <anonimasu> no, the thc has thar coverred
[02:00:05] <anonimasu> I want to probe edges for rotation of the coordinate system
[02:00:21] <anonimasu> so my operator wont have to manually fiddle coord systems
[02:00:31] <Crom_> AHHHHHHHhhhhhhhh
[02:00:44] <anonimasu> (and to set up serial numbers for the stock) so I can load up old stok and continue cutting
[02:00:56] <anonimasu> (continue nesting on it)
[02:02:47] <Crom_> so hmm process would be... 1. extend probe, 2. find material then find end
[02:02:53] <Crom_> find edge
[02:04:35] <Crom_> outside always rectangle? probably not..
[02:04:37] <anonimasu> operator can jog to the zero corner then probe xyz...
[02:05:03] <anonimasu> not a problem that it's the plate rotation that's a pain
[02:10:07] <anonimasu> for probing I have other ideas then what people make with the balls
[02:10:55] <anonimasu> I'd machine the contact tips(on the 4th axis) and align them with a carrier ring of plastic(for separation)
[02:11:13] <anonimasu> err between 2 carrier rings
[02:11:27] <anonimasu> with V notches to align the contacts
[02:13:28] <anonimasu> then switch the head on the milling machine to vertical drill/tap holes, screw the carrier plate in place, and cut the contacts free from eachother
[02:14:04] <Crom_> jog left off material, come down with probe, go right to find edge, then go left set amount come forward then right past edge the go towards back to find edge, then go forward pause, op jogs right past end, continue, go back X amount go left find edge, in not found within 6 inches, go back right and go back X more, repeat. find end, come back to original right x, come forward to original Y, go to left found end, go back find ed
[02:14:05] <Crom_> ge. now you have x,y front left corner and x,y right front corner. you can calculate rotation. go forward to ori X, go left to between Y's go back to edge, sanity check edge, then raise Z go back X get material height.
[02:16:36] <anonimasu> yep :) not very complex
[02:16:46] <anonimasu> I need to pull wires/hoses anyway for the oxyfuel torch
[02:16:50] <Crom_> not complex, time consuming
[02:16:57] <anonimasu> to set up?
[02:17:25] <anonimasu> I know the max material height for the machine allowed I can just put a sensor that fits the range
[02:18:07] <Crom_> oh shoot.. prox sensor?
[02:18:24] <anonimasu> I have some photocells
[02:18:48] <anonimasu> (they are not so damn accurate, but it's a plasma.(2.5mm off is just fine.
[02:19:41] <anonimasu> as long as I can get the plate rotation right, so I can nest up to the edges -3mm or so
[02:21:10] <Crom_> it's all conductive isn't it? forget that.. mill scale...
[02:23:37] <anonimasu> huh?
[02:23:44] <Crom_> still think a vinland would work best... just add a boot at the top of the probe and give it plenty of travel... do a high speed scan.. make it so you can go 1" over travel and back out to 0 (+ offset of tip)
[02:23:59] <anonimasu> photocell as in the stuff for doors.
[02:24:12] <anonimasu> optical direct reflection
[02:24:54] <anonimasu> and 250-300m of measuring range.
[02:24:57] <anonimasu> mm
[02:25:12] <Crom_> mount it on a pneumatic cylinder powered Zz beside the torch on the torch Z with known offset.
[02:25:43] <anonimasu> I just need it covered for cutting.., the torch lives it's own life, with height control and stuff..
[02:26:20] <anonimasu> initial z height is torque sensing
[02:27:55] <anonimasu> bbl going to work
[02:30:06] <Crom_> go to x0y0z table height + 0.125" and go X+1 Y +1 at 45 degrees and set up a search pattern untill you find an edge go back way you came until off end then start edge follow and find the front, travel the front, find the end, find the back, then find the next sheet going X +1 Y -1 at 45 degrees to the left back and find the plate, find right front corner, find left corner, find back, find next plate etc until you run out of tabl
[02:30:07] <Crom_> e. calculate all plates. retract probe, start cutting
[02:31:40] <Crom_> if probe end is 2mm (3mm grade 8 ground down to no thread...)
[02:32:39] <Crom_> make the probe body 6" around... you can have plenty of travel
[02:35:33] <Crom_> Zz probe can be a drawer slide covered with a box which has a trap boor which closes when it hits the top. think trash can with lid the opens when you step on the pedal on the floor.. just upside down.
[02:38:53] <Crom_> <Crom_> e. calculate all plates. retract probe, start cutting
[02:38:53] <Crom_> <Crom_> if probe end is 2mm (3mm grade 8 ground down to no thread...)
[02:38:53] <Crom_> <Crom_> make the probe body 6" around... you can have plenty of travel
[02:38:55] <Crom_> <Crom_> Zz probe can be a drawer slide covered with a box which has a trap boor which closes when it hits the top. think trash can with lid the opens when you step on the pedal on the floor.. just upside down.
[02:43:55] <Crom_> if probe end is 2mm (3mm grade 8 ground down to no thread...)
[02:43:56] <Crom_> make the probe body 6" around... you can have plenty of travel
[02:43:56] <Crom_> Zz probe can be a drawer slide covered with a box which has a trap boor which closes when it hits the top. think trash can with lid the opens when you step on the pedal on the floor.. just upside down.
[02:44:08] <Crom_> damn it
[03:28:30] <Deejay> moin
[08:00:25] <jthornton> tjb1, you around?
[08:54:11] <Tom_itx> morning
[08:56:35] <jthornton> morning
[08:58:22] <Tom_itx> gettin a bit closer with my spindle control.. seems there's always something gettin in the way
[08:59:08] <jthornton> I think I have the firmware loaded onto the ramps lol
[08:59:40] <jthornton> information is like chicken lips... hard to find
[08:59:48] <Tom_itx> oh nice
[09:00:43] <Tom_itx> you find one or two decent guys in reprap... the reset are .... well... not as helpful and assume you're a genius from the beginning
[09:01:14] <Tom_itx> how did you load it?
[09:01:34] <jthornton> arduino ide
[09:01:44] <Tom_itx> serial?
[09:02:12] <Tom_itx> i don't care for their environment much but it works
[09:02:50] <Tom_itx> iirc, most of your settings will be in the configuration.h file
[09:04:06] <jthornton> I found the Marlin page that kinda shows what to do... I only had to start over once
[09:04:32] <Tom_itx> one guy that is very helpful is triffid_hunter
[09:04:50] <jthornton> I guess I need to slap a power supply to it and a stepper and see if it moves
[09:05:58] <Tom_itx> if you wanna avoid all the #reprap traffic, #robotics is an other place you can get help
[09:07:05] <jthornton> thanks, do they do 3d printing in robotics too?
[09:07:26] <Tom_itx> a few do and those seem to be the more helpful ones
[09:07:37] <Tom_itx> trif is in Au
[09:07:45] <Tom_itx> so Au time there
[09:08:19] <Tom_itx> it can be quiet there at times
[09:08:22] <jthornton> ok
[09:10:51] <codepython7771> is there a cnc+3d printer in the market that is decent?
[09:11:29] <Tom_itx> define decent
[09:11:37] <Tom_itx> decent quality? decent price?
[09:11:46] <Tom_itx> mendlemax is nice but $$$
[09:11:47] <codepython7771> Tom_itx: quality. Price <10k.
[09:12:46] <Tom_itx> most of em look like an old bard that's about to fall down
[09:13:01] <Tom_itx> barn*
[09:13:57] <Tom_itx> iirc, reprap has a list somewhere of most of them
[09:16:27] <syyl_ws> dmg builds a decent cnc mill and printer combo
[09:16:55] <syyl_ws> but its slightly beyond 10k ;)
[09:18:22] <syyl_ws> http://de.dmgmori.com/produkte/lasertec/lasertec-additivemanufacturing
[09:18:23] <syyl_ws> ;)
[09:22:21] <codepython7771> syyl_ws: slightly being the keyword? ;)
[09:22:54] <syyl_ws> ;)
[09:25:51] <codepython7771> syyl_ws: what software do you use to create objects to be printed?
[09:28:22] <syyl_ws> i dont print :)
[09:28:59] <syyl_ws> i am not a big fan of "additive machining"
[09:29:05] <syyl_ws> to much hype for my money
[09:31:21] <Tom_itx> jthornton, have you gotten a reprap or are you building your own?
[09:32:58] <JT-Shop> going to build it
[09:33:09] <JT-Shop> doesn't look hard
[09:33:19] <Tom_itx> no not really
[09:33:21] <JT-Shop> I have the Bulldog XL extruder
[09:33:39] <JT-Shop> and the ramps that take 24v
[09:34:12] <Tom_itx> if you plan to do abs you will need a heater on the bed
[09:34:18] <Tom_itx> pla will work without one
[09:34:22] <JT-Shop> I need to get some linear bearings and shafts and sort out if I want ball screws or belts
[09:34:47] <Tom_itx> belts are cheaper and seem to work quite well
[09:34:50] <JT-Shop> at this time pla is the only thing I'm interested in for lost pla casting
[09:35:03] <Tom_itx> you would probably need a high lead pitch on a screw
[09:35:20] <Tom_itx> yeah i figuerd that's what you were doing it for
[09:35:46] <Tom_itx> most of em use the GT2 belts
[09:36:36] <Tom_itx> put an extruder on your plasma table an you're nearly there
[09:37:46] <JT-Shop> this is the ramps I got http://www.reprapdiscount.com/home/29-ramps-14-ultimate-power-kit-1-wiring-set-capable-of-24v.html
[09:38:28] <JT-Shop> the plasma uses a square tooth belt so it is not that accurate
[09:38:33] <Tom_itx> oh
[09:38:42] <Tom_itx> yeah round seems a bit better
[09:38:57] <Tom_itx> that's the most common 'kit' they use
[09:39:06] <Tom_itx> as far as electronics
[09:40:01] <JT-Shop> I'm hoping I can use it with a linux computer... if not I guess I'll use the sd card thing that came with it
[09:40:12] <JT-Shop> and get a lcd display
[09:40:41] <Tom_itx> well, with sd you don't need the pc connection which could fail mid print
[09:40:59] <Tom_itx> seems a better method to me
[09:41:22] <Tom_itx> takes a bit of doing to get that working i think.. i haven't tried sd
[09:42:36] <_methods> -nah it's pretty easy
[09:42:45] <Tom_itx> i've messed with it a bit but not in this context
[09:42:52] <_methods> you basically just hook it up and run with it
[09:42:59] <_methods> you have to enable some stuff in config
[09:43:22] <_methods> uncomment a few lines depending on your lcd
[09:43:25] <Tom_itx> i agree.. most of the grunt work has been done
[09:44:01] <Tom_itx> _methods does marlin have support for that graphic display?
[09:44:13] <_methods> yeah
[09:44:13] <Tom_itx> or does he need another package for it?
[09:44:36] <_methods> no ti works in marlin too
[09:44:42] <_methods> i used to use marlin
[09:44:52] <Tom_itx> what firmware are you using now?
[09:45:00] <_methods> i can't even remember
[09:45:06] <_methods> i think i'm using marlin
[09:45:14] <Tom_itx> marlin seems to be quite popular
[09:45:17] <_methods> i haven't fired up my 3d printer in like 6 months
[09:45:47] <_methods> makes a nice window display lol
[09:46:06] <_methods> i'm going to build another one though
[09:46:15] <_methods> i'm going to make one of those core xy's
[09:46:30] <_methods> 2 of my buddies built them and they print incredible
[09:46:41] <Tom_itx> i'm not familiar with that one
[09:46:46] <_methods> i have a reprap morgan and a mendlemax2
[09:47:15] <Tom_itx> mike did ok with the mendlemax
[09:47:18] <_methods> i used to never use the sd card/lcd
[09:47:22] <_methods> but now i use it all the time
[09:47:48] <_methods> yeah the mendelmax is a good build but i made the same mistake most machinists would make looking at 3d printer designs
[09:48:00] <_methods> the bed moving on 3d printer is bad
[09:48:17] <_methods> i looked at all those other designs and thought they were crap were the bed just dropped
[09:48:24] <_methods> s/were/where
[09:48:36] <Tom_itx> more mass to move
[09:48:40] <_methods> but now i realize you don't want your table flyin all over
[09:48:48] <_methods> with your part all stacked up 12 inches high on it
[09:49:02] <Tom_itx> good point
[09:49:25] <Tom_itx> be like carrying jello
[09:50:11] <_methods> yeah
[09:50:37] <_methods> my buddies have like 80 3d printers
[09:50:40] <_methods> they're crazy
[09:50:59] <_methods> and those core xy's print the best out of all their designs
[09:51:32] <Rickta59> can linuxcnc deal with a corexy?
[09:51:45] <_methods> i would imagine som
[09:52:05] <_methods> you can deal with any kinematics in linuxcnc
[09:52:17] <_methods> depending on the horsepower of your box
[09:53:07] <Tom_itx> looks like an etch o sketch
[09:53:19] <Rickta59> yeah but no
[09:54:28] <_methods> yeah
[09:54:46] <_methods> the constant tension on the carriage makes it move real smooth
[09:54:56] <Tom_itx> still a single stepper for x and one for y?
[09:55:00] <_methods> yep
[09:55:05] <_methods> you just use a lot of belt
[09:55:16] <Tom_itx> belt doesn't cost that much
[09:55:22] <Tom_itx> what about belt stretch?
[09:55:42] <_methods> you can tighten it over time
[09:55:50] <Tom_itx> jthornton, have you looked at that design?
[09:55:52] <_methods> they have adjusters at the mounting points
[09:55:54] <_methods> tensioners
[09:55:56] <Tom_itx> looks interesting
[09:56:08] <_methods> yeah that will be my next 3d printer build
[09:56:12] <Tom_itx> tensioner on the far end of the belt?
[09:56:14] <_methods> after i do my plasma table
[09:56:21] <_methods> on the carriage
[09:56:25] <_methods> and i think on the stepper mounts
[09:56:32] <_methods> you can adjust some tension
[09:56:40] <Tom_itx> i saw something similar that used string and one stepper iirc
[09:56:45] <_methods> yeah
[09:56:51] <_methods> those drawing things
[09:56:58] <_methods> uses bead cord for like shades
[09:57:35] <JT-Shop> _methods, do you have a link to a cord xy like you mentioned above?
[09:57:39] <Tom_itx> so then they just add z to the bed for reprap...
[09:57:51] <Tom_itx> http://joshuavasquez.com/docs/jVasquez/Projects/coreXY.html
[09:57:54] <Tom_itx> is one JT-Shop
[09:58:03] <Rickta59> http://corexy.com/theory.html
[09:58:13] <_methods> yeah one sec
[09:58:30] <Tom_itx> good belt diagram on the one i linked
[09:58:52] <JT-Shop> cool
[09:58:52] <Rickta59> some like the cross
[09:58:58] <_methods> http://www.thingiverse.com/thing:393155
[09:59:00] <Rickta59> some people don't want the cross
[09:59:24] <_methods> this is my buddies build
[09:59:32] <_methods> http://www.thingiverse.com/thing:252041
[09:59:34] <Tom_itx> that does look like a decent design
[09:59:44] <_methods> he had a hot plate layin around from a delta lol
[10:00:18] <Tom_itx> does it shake around sitting on top of stilts?
[10:00:41] <_methods> stilts?
[10:00:50] <Rickta59> high weight
[10:00:55] <Tom_itx> well i assume it sits on 4 legs
[10:01:58] <Tom_itx> you could bolt it to a table and lower Z below the table
[10:02:17] <Tom_itx> then you would have the rigidness of the table to absorb the movement
[10:02:44] <JT-Shop> I like the core xy design, thanks for mentioning that _methods
[10:02:55] <Tom_itx> yeah me too
[10:03:02] <_methods> np
[10:03:08] <_methods> it will be my next build for sure
[10:03:24] <_methods> they're prints are as good as i've seen for fdm
[10:04:31] <_methods> http://www.thingiverse.com/jamesarm97/makes
[10:04:46] <_methods> those are some of the things my other buddy has printed on his
[10:05:05] <JT-Shop> so the print head stays still in the Z axis and the table moves up and down?
[10:05:13] <Tom_itx> yes
[10:05:32] <_methods> yeah you would think that would be bad
[10:05:38] <Tom_itx> that way it doesn't upset the molten plastic
[10:05:40] <_methods> as a machinist you think it's a horrible idea
[10:06:02] <Tom_itx> or come unstuck from the bed as easy
[10:06:14] <_methods> yeah
[10:06:45] <JT-Shop> I wonder if Marlin has a core xy
[10:06:48] <Tom_itx> _methods do you use painter's tape to hold PLA down?
[10:07:16] <JT-Shop> bbl
[10:07:57] <_methods> no i use hairspray
[10:08:15] <_methods> and if you have your bed leveled right i've printed for weeks without using heat or hairspray
[10:08:43] <Tom_itx> do you clean it after each print?
[10:08:57] <_methods> nope
[10:09:01] <_methods> i've had very good luck
[10:09:08] <_methods> i am not the norm for sure lol
[10:09:42] <_methods> but i do use the hairspray if i'm having issues
[10:14:03] <_methods> i use that aquanet pink stuff
[10:14:14] <_methods> not all hairsprays work
[10:14:32] <_methods> use that crap the chicks used to spray in their hair back in the 80's lol
[10:16:25] <_methods> and none of my words apply to ABS
[10:47:32] <Rickta59> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uIX9_1DD_S8 about 3 mintues in he talks about what he dislikes about corexy
[10:48:58] <Tom_itx> _methods do you get these results with it? http://fashionweekmix.com/fashion/2011/07/cute-Bouffant-Hairstyle.jpg https://c1.staticflickr.com/3/2161/3527404240_98a64b0325.jpg
[10:55:33] <CaptHindsight> I can print those hairstyles
[11:01:54] * syyl_ws checks the channeldescription
[11:01:59] <syyl_ws> ok, no fashion-channel
[11:05:33] <furrywolf> ?
[11:06:48] <CaptHindsight> syyl: maybe try ##hipster
[11:07:02] * furrywolf just wears jeans and t-shirts
[11:07:45] <furrywolf> I'm not sexy enough to wear things described as fashionable anyway.
[11:10:06] <syyl_ws> machining is not very hipster ;)
[11:10:09] <syyl_ws> il stay here
[11:11:43] <furrywolf> dunno, I think there's some overlap between hipsters and 3d printer owners.
[11:11:52] <syyl_ws> uh
[11:12:07] <CaptHindsight> please don't give them any ideas
[11:12:10] <syyl_ws> i will throw carbide endmills at them if they threaden me :D
[11:12:16] <furrywolf> lol
[11:12:40] <XXCoder> 3d print nice clothes ;)
[11:13:12] <syyl_ws> jeans are nice enough ;)
[11:13:24] <syyl_ws> my gf just comfirmed.
[11:13:25] <CaptHindsight> printing non wovens for clothing is an untapped market
[11:13:56] <furrywolf> hrmm, then hipsters could print t-shirts with the names of DIFFERENT bands no one has ever heard of on them.
[11:14:03] <CaptHindsight> other than that undergarment made with sprayable latex
[11:14:42] <syyl_ws> hmm
[11:14:47] <syyl_ws> that might be durable
[11:14:53] <syyl_ws> bedliner?
[11:15:19] <CaptHindsight> http://www.cnet.com/news/biodegradable-3d-printed-underpants-can-be-worn-tossed/
[11:15:41] <XXCoder> furrywolf: I would make up bullshit band names like "burnt ashes" and "wacky jokemusic" amd say "oh you never heard of em? too bad" to any hipsers who ask
[11:16:04] <syyl_ws> :D
[11:16:08] <syyl_ws> great idea!
[11:16:30] <CaptHindsight> or mashup band names
[11:16:41] <furrywolf> I like bands no one has ever heard of, but all my shirts with anything printed on them just have my business name. heh.
[11:16:41] <XXCoder> easy enough with small C project
[11:17:49] <XXCoder> :) I love this band "Complete and total silence", I hear it all time.
[11:18:17] <CaptHindsight> and their new top hit "Over the hills and far far away"
[11:18:53] <XXCoder> meh it actually contains bug sounds. I prefer "Silence of deep space"
[11:19:18] <CaptHindsight> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ogxvonZCP48
[11:19:32] <furrywolf> I wonder how hard it would be to generate random album covers... after generating the random band name, google image search for the words in it, then randomly composite the first few resulting images.
[11:19:41] <XXCoder> nice
[11:19:51] <XXCoder> and no idea
[11:20:35] <furrywolf> and then sell them! :P
[11:21:39] <XXCoder> https://www.google.com/search?q=silence+of+deep+space&safe=off&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ei=wUTWVInvCsy3ogSn_oGQDA&ved=0CAgQ_AUoAQ&biw=1920&bih=969
[11:21:47] <XXCoder> first few results of silence of deep space
[11:21:51] <CaptHindsight> furrywolf: random news photos and random nouns and verbs
[11:22:21] <XXCoder> not as bad if I add "news" https://www.google.com/search?q=silence+of+deep+space&safe=off&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ei=wUTWVInvCsy3ogSn_oGQDA&ved=0CAgQ_AUoAQ&biw=1920&bih=969#safe=off&tbm=isch&q=silence+of+deep+space+news
[11:23:47] <CaptHindsight> http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2014/03/25/article-2588900-1C8D909E00000578-937_634x354.jpg painted by blindfolded artist, who knew?
[11:24:20] <syyl_ws> thats awesome!
[11:24:38] <CaptHindsight> maybe monkeys with markers and random nouns and verbs
[11:24:47] <CaptHindsight> then it's original artwork
[11:24:59] <syyl_ws> cat with markers taped to their tail?
[11:26:01] <CaptHindsight> my inspiration http://www.dailymail.co.uk/femail/article-2588900/Picturing-minds-eye-Meet-artist-paints-BLINDFOLDED-depict-visions-experiences-meditation-sessions.html
[11:26:04] <furrywolf> will be kinda hard to see the marker marks under all the blood from the person trying to attach them.
[11:26:42] <CaptHindsight> whenever I try I get this http://ak2.polyvoreimg.com/cgi/img-thing/size/l/tid/2721943.jpg
[11:27:15] <XXCoder> you get a circle? ;)
[11:27:34] <furrywolf> that's a really good square for drawn freehand blindfolded.
[11:27:36] <CaptHindsight> I want what XXCoder is using :)
[11:27:50] <XXCoder> lol
[11:28:00] * XXCoder passes along some candy
[11:28:21] <syyl_ws> dont take candy from strangers!
[11:29:03] <CaptHindsight> cnc laser cut textiles for clothing, there just needs to be a rapid adhesive to hold the pieces together
[11:29:29] <XXCoder> don't worry those has 90% less shaving blades in em
[11:31:12] <CaptHindsight> a 3d printer that weaves carbon fiber and coats them with resin would be really handy
[11:32:02] <syyl_ws> i just heard in the tested podcast that there is a reprapthing that prints abs and can embed carbon fibres
[11:32:04] <XXCoder> one exists
[11:32:10] <XXCoder> for tubes anyway
[11:32:36] <syyl_ws> fibrewinding machines for tubular structures are pretty common :D
[11:33:28] <CaptHindsight> freeform random shapes is what's needed
[11:33:50] <XXCoder> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RiPQpiE4_qY
[11:34:03] <DaViruz> there are filament wire for cnc hot glue guns that contain short fiber clippings for reinforcement
[11:34:14] <CaptHindsight> resin and carbon fiber flock would even be a good start
[11:34:49] <DaViruz> i'm not sure of how effective it is though, it may well make it weaker due to poor adhesion
[11:36:04] <CaptHindsight> robot carbon fiber knitting machine
[11:37:08] <CaptHindsight> http://makezine.com/2014/02/27/openknit-an-open-source-knitting-machine/
[11:37:57] <CaptHindsight> http://vimeo.com/86889648 how the OpenKnit Knitting Machine works.
[11:38:06] <furrywolf> I've thought about building a faux fur making machine... good fursuits can sell for a rather good chunk of money.
[11:38:40] <CaptHindsight> the costume industry
[11:38:43] <furrywolf> a large black box tells me exactly nothing about how it works. how about, you know, text, and images?
[11:40:58] <zeeshan|2> lots of 3d printing chanter
[11:40:59] <zeeshan|2> :-)
[11:41:14] <furrywolf> zee: blown up and drives today?
[11:41:15] <CaptHindsight> additive manufacturing
[11:41:16] <furrywolf> any
[11:41:42] <XXCoder> last time he talked he had pulled motor apart
[11:41:46] <XXCoder> and found it was rebuilt
[11:41:53] <zeeshan|2> yea
[11:41:55] <zeeshan|2> its rebuilt
[11:42:00] <zeeshan|2> i inspected the brushes through the brush slots
[11:42:02] <zeeshan|2> they look clean
[11:42:31] <furrywolf> did you do any tests to check for shorts to the case, tach, or brake?
[11:42:41] <zeeshan|2> my commutator looks like this
[11:42:43] <zeeshan|2> http://s11.photobucket.com/user/Stacker22/media/Motorlayout.jpg.html
[11:42:45] <zeeshan|2> not my pic
[11:42:48] <zeeshan|2> but gives you an idea
[11:43:00] <zeeshan|2> theres 4 brushes
[11:43:05] <zeeshan|2> i think :p
[11:43:19] <CaptHindsight> i ordered the framed prints
[11:43:32] <zeeshan|2> furrywolf: not really
[11:43:34] <zeeshan|2> i only did the motor test
[11:43:58] <zeeshan|2> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5QQfT-neTz0
[11:44:16] <furrywolf> is that video something that's going to be worth waiting to download?
[11:44:25] <zeeshan|2> lol
[11:44:28] <zeeshan|2> do you have a slow connect
[11:44:34] <furrywolf> yes
[11:44:40] <zeeshan|2> then no
[11:44:43] <Tom_itx> naw skip it
[11:44:58] <zeeshan|2> it just shows the bulb only changes brightness
[11:45:02] <zeeshan|2> if you try to rotate the motor too fast
[11:45:09] <zeeshan|2> if you move it slowly
[11:45:11] <zeeshan|2> it doesnt
[11:45:13] <Tom_itx> well of course
[11:45:23] <Tom_itx> the motor is a generator
[11:45:27] <furrywolf> so if you connect a good motor to a good drive, the drive blows? :P
[11:45:29] <zeeshan|2> yea it opposites basttery
[11:45:32] <Tom_itx> see that's where the emf comes from
[11:45:58] <zeeshan|2> furrywolf: have not tried that yet
[11:47:33] <zeeshan|2> with voltage applied to the brake
[11:47:46] <zeeshan|2> there is no voltage detected at the tachometer or motor lead wires
[11:47:49] <furrywolf> power up the motor off 12V, then measure the voltage between your power and the case, tach, and brake wires.
[11:48:23] <zeeshan|2> and i turn it?
[11:48:46] <furrywolf> sure, although I don't know if it'll change anything.
[11:48:47] <furrywolf> lol
[11:48:51] <zeeshan|2> :-)
[11:49:14] <XXCoder> Tom_itx: dynimo yeah
[11:49:22] <XXCoder> I never could spell that damn word
[11:50:42] <CaptHindsight> I'd like to print carbon fiber parts like these http://www.advancedinductionresearch.com/Copy%20of%20FD1301-20%20RtFr.jpg
[11:50:49] <zeeshan|2> hehe
[11:50:51] <zeeshan|2> that would be sweet
[11:50:52] <CaptHindsight> http://www.bikerumor.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/07/Ruckus-Components-Graham-Carbon-Fiber-Cowboy-Hat.jpg
[11:51:07] <furrywolf> I don't. I like car parts to be made of metal.
[11:51:16] <CaptHindsight> http://www.carid.com/images/seibon/page/seibon-carbon-fiber-front-bumper-5.jpg
[11:51:48] <CaptHindsight> http://images.motorcycle-usa.com/PhotoGallerys/group.jpg
[11:52:03] <zeeshan|2> http://i.imgur.com/uwgk1Za.jpg
[11:52:04] <XXCoder> carbon fiber made from carbon fiber ;)
[11:52:07] <furrywolf> yeah, my custom bumper is 1/2" wall 4x6" box section. want to play chicken?
[11:52:08] <zeeshan|2> i built that a while back
[11:52:16] <CaptHindsight> nice
[11:52:28] <zeeshan|2> plenum out of cf would be nice
[11:52:45] <XXCoder> furry im sure my van crappy plastic bumper would win ;)
[11:53:00] <CaptHindsight> I can SLA them now with short strand CF
[11:53:26] <CaptHindsight> but continuous fiber would be better
[11:53:30] * furrywolf thinks bumpers need to be capable of delivering the kinetic energy of the vehicle to the other object
[11:53:37] <zeeshan|2> http://i130.photobucket.com/albums/p252/turbozee84/plenum1.jpg
[11:53:52] <zeeshan|2> http://i130.photobucket.com/albums/p252/turbozee84/plenum_grinded.jpg
[11:53:59] <CaptHindsight> a bumpber weaver
[11:54:04] <zeeshan|2> a lot work to build the plenum
[11:54:10] <zeeshan|2> 3d printed one would save labor :P
[11:54:34] <furrywolf> actual weaving would be very hard to do without a many many nozzled machine...
[11:54:50] <CaptHindsight> lost wax casting, or DMLS can also make that
[11:55:12] <PetefromTn_> yeah but it's not half as cool..
[11:55:27] <JT-Shop> is the core xy considered a Cartesian printer?
[11:55:44] <XXCoder> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Loom
[11:55:55] <XXCoder> change it so CNC swaps colors as nesscary
[11:56:02] <XXCoder> fast and inline
[11:56:19] <CaptHindsight> making textile is easy
[11:56:34] <CaptHindsight> I want to print textiles and CF right to final shape
[11:56:47] <XXCoder> yeah bet thats not easy
[11:57:23] <XXCoder> http://www.wired.com/2010/09/spray-on-fabric/
[11:57:29] <furrywolf> the best way I can think of, for a fully cnc machine with a reasonable number of heads, is rather than printing the carbon fibers in the final polyester resin, you fed them out of a nozzle in a soft wax binder, with the strands fed through a needle extending about a half inch past the nozzle, repeatedly stuffing them down into the previous layers, then did some process to replace the temporary binder with the final polyester resin...
[11:57:43] <furrywolf> (at least, the best way I can think of given the 30 seconds or so I spent typing that line)
[11:59:03] <furrywolf> or maybe used a UV cure resin, very lightly cured during the first pass so it gells but is still soft enough to poke the next layer of fibers into, the a final cure of the entire part.
[11:59:33] <XXCoder> just make sure constant cure afterwards (out in sun and all) would not cause any issues
[12:00:18] <PetefromTn_> http://almostnerdy.com/cool-stuff/star-trek-alcoholic-drinks/ I think I need some Andorian ale!!
[12:00:36] <CaptHindsight> you can also selectively cure photopolymers
[12:00:40] <furrywolf> while it wouldn't be continous fibers, you'd at least have controlled overlap in all directions, including Z, unlike any simple extruder method.
[12:01:19] <CaptHindsight> yes, continuous needs to be woven
[12:02:01] <XXCoder> I can't imange machine that could do pants and shirts and anything else woven
[12:02:11] <XXCoder> it must be hideously complex
[12:02:17] <CaptHindsight> parts are layed up by hand using forms now
[12:02:20] <XXCoder> so it can make any cloth forms
[12:02:21] <furrywolf> xxcoder: I can imagine it. I just wouldn't want to build it. :P
[12:02:30] <CaptHindsight> they layer CF prepregs
[12:02:35] <XXCoder> build it, I dare ya ;)
[12:02:54] <XXCoder> could make you billionaire. if so, I want enough to get nice mill cnc machine
[12:02:55] <furrywolf> xxcoder: I've seen them... they just have a simple mechanism repeated hundreds or thousands of times.
[12:03:20] <furrywolf> many textile machines are based around doing something simple a thousand times at once.
[12:03:21] <XXCoder> isnt it just 2d like sheets? would it make whole shirt AND with different program, pants>?
[12:03:46] <CaptHindsight> http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/31KmZm249EL.jpg even printing a simple part like this is a good start
[12:04:05] <CaptHindsight> variable diameter tube with some slight bends
[12:04:30] <furrywolf> http://image.ec21.com/image/kumoh/oimg_GC01128097/Textile_Machinery_Used_.jpg ends up looking like that
[12:04:52] <XXCoder> jeez thats pretty complex
[12:05:07] <furrywolf> that's a simple machine when it comes to textiles
[12:05:20] <XXCoder> crazy.
[12:05:40] <CaptHindsight> superloom
[12:05:41] <furrywolf> http://img.weiku.com/waterpicture/2011/10/29/14/Textile_machine_spinning_machine_spandex_yarn_deivce_634594209405414245_1.jpg how about for flat things?
[12:06:30] <CaptHindsight> http://images.thecarconnection.com/med/lexus-lfa-carbon-fiber-loom_100337722_m.jpg
[12:06:53] <XXCoder> wonder if those fancy weaving machines can be adopted for carbon fibre
[12:07:02] <XXCoder> if it can make any shape woven stuff..
[12:07:05] <CaptHindsight> http://jalopnik.com/5737631/the-amazing-carbon-fiber-loom-toyota-didnt-want-you-to-see
[12:07:15] <CaptHindsight> XXCoder: ^^
[12:07:21] <XXCoder> looking
[12:07:38] <furrywolf> a lot of textile processing (and the vast majority in terms of products made) is massively parallel.
[12:07:55] <furrywolf> and has been since the industrial revolution
[12:07:59] <XXCoder> kit a car
[12:08:44] <XXCoder> that weave dance is extremely complex
[12:08:49] <XXCoder> mind boggling really.
[12:08:50] <CaptHindsight> 3d printing forms for CF laminates that dissolve in water
[12:10:30] <CaptHindsight> or forms that hold up for 100 shots while vacuum forming
[12:11:33] <furrywolf> xxcoder: many of them are even more clever, and have moving complex parts on floating mounts, so they can actually wrap another thread completely around it... the bobbin and rotating hook in a standard sewing machine is a simple example...
[12:13:35] <CaptHindsight> I'll go ask in #reprap :)
[12:13:50] <XXCoder> have fun
[12:14:00] <XXCoder> well time for me to go fix my broken van lol
[12:14:12] <XXCoder> I acciently broke it yeserday :P latch in hatch can't close
[12:14:58] <CaptHindsight> XXCoder: is yours like this? http://www.angelfire.com/tv2/mysterymachine/newmyst2.jpg
[12:15:08] <zeeshan|2> i never used to think these motors cost so much
[12:15:13] <zeeshan|2> i used to work on thsoe fanuc redcap motors
[12:15:16] <XXCoder> wow who copied my van??
[12:15:20] <zeeshan|2> fak some of these are like 5000
[12:15:22] <zeeshan|2> USED
[12:15:24] <furrywolf> latch in hatch needs patch dispatch?
[12:15:45] <XXCoder> furry is that supposed to be a touge twister?
[12:16:29] <furrywolf> zeeshan: I still have no idea if your motor is bad. lol
[12:16:31] <XXCoder> tongue twister
[12:16:39] <zeeshan|2> yea man
[12:16:44] <zeeshan|2> ill check in a bit
[12:16:45] <zeeshan|2> that test
[12:16:50] <JT-Shop> Tom_itx, here is one with SW files https://github.com/zelogik/AluXY
[12:18:53] <CaptHindsight> JT-Shop: coreXY cartesian motion platforms, so yes, cartesian
[12:24:24] <JT-Shop> ok
[12:25:18] <CaptHindsight> http://3dprint.com/31284/space-weaver-3d-machine/
[12:26:44] <CaptHindsight> http://www.instructables.com/id/Space-Weaver-A-Seven-Foot-Tall-3D-Weaving-Machine/?ALLSTEPS
[12:26:52] <CaptHindsight> really crude version
[12:27:43] <PetefromTn_> boy is that a hack job
[12:29:32] <CaptHindsight> http://matter.media.mit.edu/tools
[12:32:21] <CaptHindsight> lots of great ideas but they don't have anyone that can follow through on development (and the prof is a hottie)
[12:36:39] <CaptHindsight> https://github.com/g3rard/OpenKnit have to get this working in Linuxcnc
[12:37:00] <zeeshan|2> PetefromTn_: did your motors bolt in
[12:37:04] <zeeshan|2> or did you have to make adapters
[12:38:01] <PetefromTn_> bolt right in man
[12:38:06] <zeeshan|2> haha nice
[12:38:35] <PetefromTn_> altho I did have to tweak the power input connections on the Y axis due to the narrow column opening where it goes into
[12:39:18] <CaptHindsight> after 32 seconds of code review I'm better off just starting with linuxcnc and using some not too fancy Gcode
[12:39:26] <zeeshan|2> lol capricorn_1
[12:39:28] <zeeshan|2> CaptHindsight:
[12:41:40] <CaptHindsight> being able to place strands of fiber closer together means thinner actuators for the hooks
[12:44:08] <zeeshan|2> In an automotive manufacturing plant, it is required to machine 10,000 numbers of the component (assume the mean internal diameter to be 80 mm) shown in the Figure each month. What machining process would you suggest for machining the internal features? Why
[12:44:11] <zeeshan|2> assignment q
[12:44:17] <zeeshan|2> im thinking spline broaching
[12:44:29] <zeeshan|2> cause you have the quantity
[12:44:56] <zeeshan|2> its fast too
[12:46:10] <zeeshan|2> oh you guys cant see the image :-)
[12:53:58] <CaptHindsight> zeeshan|2: whats the material?
[12:54:03] <zeeshan|2> steel :D
[12:54:07] <zeeshan|2> i just said spline broaching
[12:54:08] <zeeshan|2> it makes sense
[12:54:53] <CaptHindsight> square(-ish) hole?
[13:00:15] <zeeshan|2> no its an internal spline
[13:02:52] <tjtr33> RAMPS dang acronyms, meaningless trivial pursuit... so RAMPS is not reprap amplifier its Reprap Arduino Mega Pololu Shield or justabuncha step drivers
[13:03:25] <tjtr33> CaptHindsight, the openknit looks fun, at least the dev has real attitude going into those stores with his work
[13:05:15] <tjtr33> JT-Shop, your idea of using repraps to make PLA/lostwax castings finished by real CNC is great
[13:05:56] <furrywolf> broaching and/or forging, depending on other needs of the part.
[13:06:14] <furrywolf> forged or rolled splines are stronger than milled or broached
[13:07:58] <CaptHindsight> you can get older Xerox colorqube printers that print with wax for <$100
[13:09:03] <CaptHindsight> you don't have to secondary machine the wax parts after printing since the drop volume is in the few picoliters
[13:10:30] <furrywolf> the problem with picoliter drops is how long it takes to make something 3d out of them.
[13:12:52] <CaptHindsight> it's variable drop volume
[13:13:11] <CaptHindsight> each head can print ~0.5L an hour
[13:14:01] <CaptHindsight> plus you only print the outer layer and then fill with wax
[13:14:47] <tjtr33> i was thinking of the original carburator part, the metal casting needed to be decked and maybe some holes for passages countersunk/o-ringed. the internal passages were kinda like pcb layout, but pipes
[13:16:40] <CaptHindsight> those heads have 1236 nozzles that fire >40Khz
[13:18:03] <furrywolf> tjtr: sure it's not easier to just machine an adapter plate to bolt a non-plastic carb to it? :)
[13:20:08] <furrywolf> couple o' power supply questions: which of the following fuses should I have: AC input to transformer, AC out of the transformer, individual drive fuses? Also, why does the transformer buzz for ~2 seconds after I plug it in then stop? it has nothing connected to the secondary. never had one do that...
[13:21:39] <pcw_home> magnetizing current
[13:22:35] <pcw_home> most transformers do that (but easier to hear on bigger ones)
[13:22:35] <furrywolf> for a couple seconds? the rest of mine either buzz continuously, or go thoomp and stop...
[13:23:03] <furrywolf> my big battery charger makes the most impressive thoomps I've ever heard from a 110v-powered device. :)
[13:23:25] <pcw_home> Yeah a few seconds is common
[13:23:37] <furrywolf> hrmm. maybe the rest of my transformers have just been weird. :)
[13:24:19] <pcw_home> I think its from residual magnetism from when last turned off
[13:25:15] <furrywolf> for the fuses, I'm thinking an ac input fuse, and individual drive fuses. no reason to fuse the output when you have an input fuse.
[13:25:18] <pcw_home> so you get saturation when first turned on until the average field gets back to 0
[13:25:49] <furrywolf> http://fw.bushytails.net/charger2.jpg thoomp-making device.
[13:26:25] <pcw_home> AC powered drives?
[13:26:31] <furrywolf> no, DC.
[13:26:56] <furrywolf> got a transformer with two 40vac secondaries at 625va, a 50a bridge, and a 37,000uf 75v cap.
[13:27:05] <furrywolf> going to parallel the secondaries
[13:27:23] <furrywolf> it actually seems to put out 43vac, but that's close enough. :)
[13:27:28] <pcw_home> make sure the fuses in the DC never blow in normal operation or you will likely lose the drive
[13:28:01] <furrywolf> the manual for the drives says they should be individually fused
[13:28:50] <furrywolf> I should get around 60vdc, which coincidentally enough is what the torque curves for the steppers is shown at... and a bit of a margin of safety under the 80v rating of the drives.
[13:30:47] <pcw_home> individual fusing is fine just be aware that if the fuse blows, the drive will be gone
[13:31:09] <furrywolf> I have (again following the manual) a 1000uf cap and a 75v zener on the drive input, which should help prevent that.
[13:31:55] <furrywolf> the manual suggests failures will usually toast the zener but save the drive
[13:32:21] <pcw_home> OK that should help (some of our LV Hbridges short out the power on over voltages)
[13:32:57] <furrywolf> I got a pack of 10A fuses, which is more than the drive should draw under non-failing conditions.
[13:33:14] <furrywolf> the manual says a 7-10A fuse
[13:33:33] <zeeshan|2> dont blow your drives!
[13:33:34] <zeeshan|2> :]
[13:33:42] <furrywolf> running 9A/phase to the steppers
[13:33:48] <zeeshan|2> i've blown enough for all of you
[13:33:55] <zeeshan|2> those are big steppers
[13:34:00] <zeeshan|2> how many oz-in?
[13:34:05] <zeeshan|2> i think my 1200oz-in take 6A/phase
[13:34:11] <furrywolf> 940ozin
[13:34:21] <zeeshan|2> i guess a different kind of winding
[13:34:39] <zeeshan|2> pcw_home: why dont you guys make drives
[13:34:41] <furrywolf> depends on voltage too. low voltage, high current steppers tend to be faster than high voltage, low current steppers, for the same holding torque.
[13:34:41] <CaptHindsight> things you never thought you'd hear people say in this channel for $500
[13:34:41] <zeeshan|2> i'd buy some
[13:34:42] <zeeshan|2> to blow up
[13:35:07] <zeeshan|2> furrywolf: youre right
[13:35:10] <zeeshan|2> kmy steppers are slow as shit
[13:35:17] <zeeshan|2> i only get 100 ipm
[13:35:19] <furrywolf> more drive voltage!
[13:35:24] <pcw_home> Yeah 10A is 600 W and I dont think there are any stepmotors capable of more than a couple hundred watts of output
[13:35:30] <zeeshan|2> im pushing them to 65vdc
[13:35:35] <furrywolf> 100ipm isn't that bad for steppers...
[13:35:48] <furrywolf> you want servos if you want rapids to actually be rapid.
[13:36:25] <furrywolf> zee: find a spec sheet for your steppers, and see if they give curves for different drive input voltages.
[13:36:43] <furrywolf> mine have a curve all the way up to 120v, but that gets into substantially more expensive drives.
[13:37:04] <furrywolf> if you have higher inductance steppers, you may well need the higher voltage to get full performance from them
[13:38:16] <furrywolf> make sure you get the _exact_ spec sheet. many motors are available with very different windings with only a single digit or letter change in the part number.
[13:40:49] <furrywolf> stepper torque drops off sharply with rpm, but is proportional to drive voltage. so if you double drive voltage, you get double the torque at the same rpm, or the same torque at a higher rpm.
[13:42:01] <furrywolf> I seem to be talking to myself, so I'm going to go back to wiring a power supply. bbl.
[13:45:14] <Crom_> you too eh?
[13:46:04] <furrywolf> ?
[13:47:05] <tjtr33> i played with a new kins to allow working normal to workfaces that are not G17 18 19.
[13:47:18] <tjtr33> http://imagebin.ca/v/1qrWSViS9cKf http://imagebin.ca/v/1qrXrvoymizS http://imagebin.ca/v/1qrXEHPsOfrN http://imagebin.ca/v/1qrY5yuSNpCN
[13:47:32] <tjtr33> the math works but theres a foreshortening of units of measure,
[13:47:43] <tjtr33> like a 2mm travel in the tilted plane may only take 300 um sized steps to traverse.
[13:47:53] <tjtr33> so the math works but it looses precision at tilt, dang!
[13:47:54] <tjtr33> the only solution i see is to really tilt the cutting head or workpiece ( no free lunch :(
[13:48:15] <tjtr33> mechanisms can get real expensive, the math was free
[13:48:32] <furrywolf> or more precise actuators
[13:49:05] <zeeshan|2> Consider that you are being hired as a consultant to solve a problem with geometric distortion (not being able to attain the required circularity) of thin bearing rings after a finish turning operation. How would you go about solving this problem?
[13:49:06] <tjtr33> < 1 um gets real expensive actuators or encoder/scales
[13:49:09] <zeeshan|2> i dunno what this prof wants from me !
[13:49:10] <zeeshan|2> lol
[13:49:19] <zeeshan|2> he wants us to read google scholar papers
[13:49:20] <zeeshan|2> to answer this q
[13:49:29] <zeeshan|2> i just wanna write "burnish the damn thing in a proper die"
[13:49:35] <zeeshan|2> 1 line
[13:50:14] <furrywolf> "as the owner of a 5-axis machining center, I am qualified to answer this question based on personal expierence"? :P
[13:50:24] <zeeshan|2> haha
[13:50:57] <zeeshan|2> i cant find a curve
[13:50:59] <zeeshan|2> for the stepper :P
[13:51:03] <CaptHindsight> the first puzzle is always finding out what the constraints are for the problem
[13:51:11] <zeeshan|2> yea its very generic q
[13:51:15] <furrywolf> you're just a student and you can afford toys like that? bleh. I figured you were a shop owner or something.
[13:51:27] <zeeshan|2> furrywolf: im doing my masters
[13:51:30] <zeeshan|2> we get paid up here to do it
[13:51:48] <CaptHindsight> personality, politics, budget, machines and tooling they have, workers attitudes etc etc
[13:51:53] <furrywolf> note that the real point of the question may be "demonstrate you know how to find and read a scholary article", not "figure out how to make this part".
[13:51:54] <zeeshan|2> i make like 45k from school
[13:52:00] <zeeshan|2> they pay tuition too
[13:52:10] <zeeshan|2> and then i run my side work business :)
[13:52:17] <zeeshan|2> mostly car parts
[13:52:22] <andypugh> zeeshan|2: Lend me $100?
[13:52:26] <furrywolf> I can hardly afford to put my $100 craigslist mill together.
[13:52:38] <tjtr33> can you access those docs ? Elsvier etc, they are locked to us commoners
[13:52:39] <CaptHindsight> work as you go plan, too bad the US doesn't have that
[13:52:41] <zeeshan|2> andypugh: lend me 1000
[13:53:00] <zeeshan|2> CaptHindsight: they take international students too
[13:53:01] <zeeshan|2> including from usa
[13:53:06] <zeeshan|2> and they get similar perks
[13:53:16] <zeeshan|2> you can make more if you TA a lot
[13:53:36] <zeeshan|2> they pay like 41$ / hr for someone with a degree
[13:53:39] <zeeshan|2> but you wont get too many hours
[13:53:47] <zeeshan|2> 160 hours - 200 hours max per sem
[13:54:01] <zeeshan|2> sem = 4 16 weeks
[13:54:05] <zeeshan|2> -4
[13:54:21] <andypugh> It’s been a crazy long job, but I finally have the lights ready to fit to the Ner-a-Car: https://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo/R6XaHgHaC917tupgrLwatNMTjNZETYmyPJy0liipFm0?feat=directlink
[13:54:29] <zeeshan|2> andypugh: you forgot to mention
[13:54:41] <furrywolf> you make twice as much being a student as I make being an adult. heh.
[13:54:41] <zeeshan|2> crazy long job, and also a drilled finger, the lights are ready
[13:54:56] <zeeshan|2> looks nice andypugh
[13:55:04] <zeeshan|2> furrywolf: ive been in school forever
[13:55:08] <zeeshan|2> 3 years college
[13:55:09] <CaptHindsight> andypugh: are you looking for dealers abroad yet? :)
[13:55:09] <zeeshan|2> 4 years uni
[13:55:17] <zeeshan|2> 2nd year for masters now
[13:55:21] <zeeshan|2> maybe another 4 for phd
[13:55:40] <zeeshan|2> i wanna go back into industry through
[13:55:44] <zeeshan|2> so might not do phd
[13:55:45] <furrywolf> with what they're paying you, not much incentive to stop. :P
[13:55:47] <zeeshan|2> thats too much commitment
[13:55:50] <CaptHindsight> doctor of blown drives (ducks)
[13:55:55] <zeeshan|2> furrywolf: its not much man
[13:55:59] <tjtr33> nice andy, is the one on right a gas model :)
[13:56:02] <zeeshan|2> my friends w/ an undergrad degree
[13:56:02] <furrywolf> <zeeshan|2> i make like 45k from school
[13:56:05] <zeeshan|2> are making 60k
[13:56:12] <andypugh> I got BSc and PhD in 6 years total. And I am in industry and want to go back to academia :-) (I did 15 years postdoc stuff after the PhD)
[13:56:14] <zeeshan|2> 2nd year of working
[13:56:23] <zeeshan|2> andypugh: you're crazy
[13:56:27] <zeeshan|2> you didnt do masters?
[13:56:34] <furrywolf> I'm making 20k.
[13:56:54] <zeeshan|2> furrywolf: career upgrade time! :P
[13:56:56] <andypugh> No, didn’t see the point in an MSc
[13:57:09] <zeeshan|2> andypugh: you can't get into phd without msc here
[13:57:19] <tjtr33> what would you do in academia, study/teach/both?
[13:57:28] <andypugh> I don’t think you can here any more.
[13:57:42] <zeeshan|2> andypugh: i like academia
[13:57:47] <zeeshan|2> but i think you can make more money in industry
[13:57:50] <zeeshan|2> and its more challenging
[13:58:04] <andypugh> I applied for a senior lecturer position a few months ago, but they didn’t even bother to interview. Automation and Control.
[13:58:12] <zeeshan|2> it drives me insane how slow stuff happens in academic research
[13:58:16] <zeeshan|2> it really bothers me a lot
[13:58:24] <CaptHindsight> allowing to skip degrees means leaving money on the table
[13:58:34] <zeeshan|2> CaptHindsight: you could do that stuff back in the day
[13:58:37] <zeeshan|2> but its impossible now
[13:58:45] <furrywolf> I wanted to teach, but way, way too much politics.
[13:58:47] <tjtr33> andypugh, be an industrial teacher like for Festo or Beckhoff
[13:58:50] <zeeshan|2> unless you are some genious
[13:59:01] <zeeshan|2> who publishes some crazy paper in undergrad
[13:59:04] <zeeshan|2> and they'll take you right to phd
[13:59:06] <andypugh> When I was a student you only did a Masters if you couldn’t get a PhD. It was basically an either/or
[13:59:19] <zeeshan|2> lol andypugh that is awesome
[13:59:39] <zeeshan|2> your hinges things
[13:59:44] <zeeshan|2> is the round cylinder brazed?
[13:59:59] <andypugh> No the entire thing is carved from solid :-)
[14:00:02] <zeeshan|2> wow
[14:00:36] <andypugh> I <3 Inventor HSM CAM: https://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo/fvoINILA3ftJANrzevmNI9MTjNZETYmyPJy0liipFm0?feat=directlink
[14:00:40] <furrywolf> ... trying to translate craigslist people to english is sometimes hard. I asked where someone was. I got "I live I'm weed via. Can I get ur address and I will come get them"
[14:00:58] <zeeshan|2> oh yes now i remember
[14:01:20] <zeeshan|2> haha furrywolf
[14:01:56] <andypugh> furrywolf: Possibly predictve text?
[14:02:14] <tjtr33> stupid newton
[14:03:26] <tjtr33> http://www.cnet.com/news/the-simpsons-eat-up-martha-was-the-first-autocorrect-fail/
[14:05:29] <zeeshan|2> man
[14:05:33] <zeeshan|2> im finding stupid papers on this topic
[14:05:38] <zeeshan|2> theyre using a 3 jaw chuck to hold the thing ring
[14:05:40] <zeeshan|2> *thin ring
[14:05:46] <zeeshan|2> and wondering why the hell it's warping
[14:05:57] <zeeshan|2> and using some weird fast tool servo system
[14:06:36] * furrywolf notes zeeshan has never pasted a link to the question, so no one has any clue what he's talking about
[14:06:45] <zeeshan|2> i did
[14:06:47] <zeeshan|2> Consider that you are being hired as a consultant to solve a problem with geometric distortion (not being able to attain the required circularity) of thin bearing rings after a finish turning operation. How would you go about solving this problem?
[14:06:48] <CaptHindsight> zeeshan|2: how much real world experience do your profs have?
[14:06:58] <zeeshan|2> this guy has a lot of real world experience
[14:07:03] <zeeshan|2> surprisngly
[14:07:31] <andypugh> That’s a job for a pot-chuck collet
[14:07:37] <furrywolf> I'd make a fixture to hold it rather than using the chuck.
[14:07:47] <zeeshan|2> a collet would work
[14:08:05] <zeeshan|2> andypugh: never seen a pot chuck collet before
[14:08:11] <zeeshan|2> whats it advantage over say a er 32 collet?
[14:08:45] <andypugh> It’s bigger?
[14:08:54] <furrywolf> for example, if you're turning the outside of it, turn down the end of a rod to fit the inside of it, tap the end, and screw a plate down on the end to clamp it, then turn the outside.
[14:08:55] <zeeshan|2> oh
[14:08:56] <zeeshan|2> i see it now
[14:08:59] <zeeshan|2> you're clamping from inside out
[14:09:11] <andypugh> So, you have one of these on the spindle nose:
[14:09:23] <andypugh> http://www.practicalmachinist.com/vb/attachments/f25/49759d1333540108-fs-south-bend-3c-pot-collets-closer-etc-dsc01351.jpg
[14:09:56] <andypugh> And you pull one of these into it: http://i01.i.aliimg.com/wsphoto/v0/2031716009/NEW-font-b-3AT-b-font-STEP-POT-SOFT-3-1-1-8-LATHE-font-b.jpg With a recess bored to exactly the right diameter.
[14:10:16] <furrywolf> is that single line really the entire problem? no specs on what workholder they're currently using, etc?
[14:10:27] <tjtr33> pot chuck/step collet https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WBOzch-xng8
[14:10:32] <zeeshan|2> furrywolf: exactly nothing else
[14:11:11] <zeeshan|2> please confirm
[14:11:20] <zeeshan|2> pot chuck collet holds the ring inside out ?
[14:11:28] <andypugh> No.
[14:11:55] <zeeshan|2> http://i01.i.aliimg.com/wsphoto/v0/2031716009/NEW-font-b-3AT-b-font-STEP-POT-SOFT-3-1-1-8-LATHE-font-b.jpg
[14:11:58] <zeeshan|2> where does the work piece go
[14:12:03] <andypugh> If that is what you want then you want an expanding mandril. Then you train the expanded monkey to make a mandrel.
[14:12:38] <andypugh> zeeshan|2: You machine a recess specific to the job.
[14:12:47] <furrywolf> well, then as to "How would you go about solving this problem?", the answer is "I would visit my employer's place of operation to observe the current machining process, especially in regards to chucking or clamping of the part, and either devise improvements to the process or suggest an alternative workholding arrangement to resolve the issues encountered".
[14:13:33] <andypugh> To hold inside to out you need: http://www.arceurotrade.co.uk/Catalogue/Expanding-Mandrels#5C-Expanding-Collets---30mm-Long
[14:13:42] <andypugh> Or: http://www.arceurotrade.co.uk/Catalogue/Expanding-Mandrels#5C-Expanding-Collets---30mm-Long
[14:13:46] <zeeshan|2> i like those.
[14:14:03] <andypugh> Sorry, same URL twice there: http://www.arceurotrade.co.uk/Catalogue/Expanding-Mandrels#Straight-Shank-Expanding-Mandrels-Quick-Release
[14:14:19] <furrywolf> because without knowing what they're doing now, or what level of accuracy they need, there's no way to answer the question. for all you know they're already using a precision expanding collet and complaining about a um of distortion between the jaws.
[14:14:56] <CaptHindsight> "in addition I would bring in a Shaman to passify those looking for a spiritual solution to the problem"
[14:15:09] <furrywolf> the question gives insufficient information for you to recommend a specific technical solution.
[14:16:02] <CaptHindsight> furrywolf: is that how real co's handle it? You get an email or call about some problem lacking all the real details
[14:16:13] <furrywolf> capt: yes.
[14:16:19] <furrywolf> and then it's your job to get the details
[14:16:36] <furrywolf> chances are the person who contacts you will be some management person who doesn't know a chuck from a chuckwagon...
[14:16:44] <andypugh> Some companies don’t want to give too much away when they first contact you.
[14:17:04] <CaptHindsight> first you sign the NDA as well
[14:17:13] <andypugh> (They want to see if you have any clue before going to the trouble of getting you to sign an BDA)
[14:17:17] <andypugh> (NDA)
[14:17:38] <CaptHindsight> then you find out that they have been using soviet era surplus equipment to make the parts
[14:18:02] <CaptHindsight> and mystery metal from India
[14:18:13] <tjtr33> some of that was just stolen from germany, so quite good iron
[14:18:39] <CaptHindsight> I had a customer that didn't know why his aluminum would not anodize properly
[14:19:02] <CaptHindsight> ends up it didn't have much aluminum in it
[14:19:05] <tjtr33> not really alum?
[14:19:07] <tjtr33> haha
[14:19:08] <Crom_> the fabled demascus steel was actually from india
[14:19:11] <furrywolf> lol
[14:19:15] <andypugh> I was looking at some of that a bit ago. Quite tempted: http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Centre-lathe-made-by-Stankoimport-Russian-built-/191472432989
[14:19:32] <Crom_> ahhh I'm alive now! Had my cuppa
[14:21:48] <Crom_> US Lipton tea is now just dust... Tetley's is still actaully not dust yet
[14:23:05] <andypugh> Yorkshire Tea. Accept no subsitiute
[14:23:27] <CaptHindsight> http://i.ebayimg.com/00/s/NDgwWDY0MA==/z/Hk8AAOSw6aVUqn6O/$_57.JPG how is the name pronounced?
[14:24:02] <CaptHindsight> looks beefy
[14:24:04] <andypugh> Well, they were sold as Stanko-Import
[14:24:15] <Crom_> dust tea isn't back, just liptons is.. My fravorite tea is actaully pressed dust balls you can find at India shops
[14:24:16] <PetefromTn_> amazes me the kinds of streams of consciousness subject matter that we experience here. Some is quite riveting some is SOOO FREAKIN' BORING
[14:24:23] <Crom_> s/back/bad/
[14:24:50] <furrywolf> pete: dildos!
[14:25:00] <PetefromTn_> case in point
[14:25:09] <Crom_> PetefromTn_, any knowledge gained isn't boring, unless your learning boring
[14:25:17] <andypugh> I believe that “dust” is just a grade of size it is ground to. In the same way as anthracite beans are not made of beans.
[14:25:42] <PetefromTn_> furrywolf I must say that I take a great deal of comfort knowing you are on the OTHER SIDE of the country from me...
[14:25:48] <Bushman> i don't remember how but there was a way to set up secondary let's call it secondary display in linux
[14:25:51] <Bushman> not just anothe monitor...
[14:25:53] <Bushman> but rather separate desktop enviroment
[14:26:01] <Bushman> any clues how to google it up?
[14:26:15] <andypugh> On the same PC or a remote one?
[14:26:24] <Bushman> same
[14:26:34] <andypugh> Bottom left-hand corner?
[14:26:42] <Bushman> naah...
[14:26:44] <andypugh> (err, the left hand corner on the right)
[14:26:52] <Crom_> I need to figure out a way to another display on this atom board
[14:26:59] <Bushman> more like you switch to it with CTRL+ALT+F8
[14:28:28] <Crom_> umm dunno which desktop I'm running it's stock ubuntu 14.04, and they call it workspaces
[14:28:36] <tjtr33> another instance of X?
[14:28:38] <Crom_> Workspace Switcher
[14:28:48] <Bushman> not workspaces
[14:28:49] <Bushman> i have 4 of those
[14:29:01] <Bushman> more like anothe X
[14:29:11] <Bushman> but i'm not sure if there were two X's
[14:29:57] <furrywolf> somehow I can neither find a piece of lamp cord nor an extension cord I want to sacrafice, despite knowing I have both of these in abundance.
[14:30:25] <Bushman> furrywolf: happens to me every time
[14:30:34] <tjtr33> something like display 0:0 vs 0:1
[14:30:47] <Bushman> tjtr33: yea, something like that
[14:31:01] <Bushman> i did it so many years ago just once
[14:31:09] <Bushman> can't remember how to do it again
[14:31:12] <tjtr33> then you got further than I
[14:31:28] <furrywolf> I did find bright purple ricer speaker wire, but I'm not sure I want to use that to wire my mill...
[14:35:16] <tjtr33> make that youraddr:0.0 vs youraddr:0.1 http://www.hungry.com/~jamie/xexport.html maybe of help
[14:36:07] <Crom_> well just figured out another project I need to do... CNC embroidery machine
[14:41:45] <tjtr33> PetefromTn_, for your stream of consciousness , the classic from Ginsberg, http://sprayberry.tripod.com/poems/howl.txt
[14:43:32] <zeeshan|2> lol furrywolf
[14:43:39] <zeeshan|2> what do you want to use that for
[14:44:50] <furrywolf> yay! I has 60.7VDC.
[14:45:00] <furrywolf> zee: wire between the transformer and the bridge
[14:45:15] <furrywolf> I got some red/black zipcord for the dc wiring, but don't want to use red/black for the ac....
[14:45:21] <furrywolf> I found some brown lamp cord and used it.
[14:45:58] <furrywolf> I'm glad I purchased a bleeder resistor... this cap has impressively low self-discharge.
[14:46:11] <Crom_> ugh 16 or 18 guage zip cord
[14:46:34] <furrywolf> 16
[14:46:57] <furrywolf> 8 seconds per 0.1V drop and full voltage. not bad at all. definitely glad I got a resistor.
[14:46:58] <Crom_> I'm a fan of THHN 14ga myself
[14:47:09] <furrywolf> I am too. I'm also a fan of having things done quickly.
[14:47:25] <furrywolf> and zipcord makes your wiring quicker and neater...
[14:47:27] <Crom_> nylon outter cover, thermo plastic inner
[14:47:46] <furrywolf> also, #14 is overkill. I'm only pulling 6A/driver.
[14:48:08] <PetefromTn_> tjtr33 thanks man..I think
[14:48:28] <Crom_> heh I have over 700' of submerged pump cord.. 4 conductor 12/3 4 wires side by size stranded
[14:49:04] <furrywolf> and I have some 0000 battery cable. your point? :P
[14:50:15] <Crom_> pump cord is great in cable chain ways
[14:51:04] <furrywolf> depends on the type. the cheapo stuff for home well pumps is coarse stranded with stuff insulation...
[14:51:48] <Crom_> yeah its standard 19 strand THHN style
[14:52:18] <furrywolf> s/stuff/stiff
[14:53:10] <Crom_> insulation isn't really stiff
[14:54:03] <furrywolf> the stuff I've used was always very stiff.
[14:55:33] <andypugh> An old machine of my dad’s was wired throughout in 3-strand cable. I have never seen that before or since
[14:56:23] <furrywolf> I've seen 3-strand wire. cut apart a chinese usb cord sometime. :P
[14:57:44] <furrywolf> wow, my cap still has 55.2V on it.
[14:57:56] <furrywolf> bleeder resistor will have to be an early project methinks.
[14:58:49] <andypugh> Bleeder resistors can be difficult with big caps and high voltages. A crowbar relay might be easier .
[14:59:35] <furrywolf> I got a 10W 1.2K resistor.
[15:00:18] <furrywolf> this will be 3 watts at voltage
[15:00:31] <andypugh> That’s probably fine then.
[15:00:44] <andypugh> I had 300V and 40,000uF and that was a different game
[15:02:48] <furrywolf> I have 37,000uf, but only at 60v. heh.
[15:05:04] <Bushman> ok, so what i was looking for was simply "startx <program_name> -- :1 vt8"
[15:05:08] <pcw_home> similar cap at 300V is ~25 times the stored energy so hard to have a fast enough bleed without excessive dissipation
[15:05:23] <tjtr33> Bushman, that works?
[15:05:57] <furrywolf> I'm willing to waste three watts. I could get a larger resistor, but I figure that's low enough to not waste too much of my power.
[15:06:48] <Crom_> wooo andy nice cap for a mag rail gun
[15:07:48] <furrywolf> still at 54.4V. time to clip the resistor to it with jumpers.
[15:08:44] <tjtr33> bang!
[15:09:39] <furrywolf> still going to take 30s to discharge.
[15:10:25] <pcw_home> ~45 second time constant so 45 seconds to ~24V
[15:10:33] <tjtr33> i have 37600 at 105Vdc and use several 1k 10watts across the copper bus bars joining them
[15:11:25] <furrywolf> I suspect it'll drain much faster once the drives are connected.
[15:11:40] <furrywolf> I want to avoid wasting too much power...
[15:13:32] <furrywolf> ah-ha! now the incomprehensible craigslist email makes more sense. "if I cannot make it and I wire u the money plus extra can u ship them to me"
[15:14:36] <furrywolf> wire? shipping? extra money? methinks it translates to "I'm in nigeria".
[15:17:00] <andypugh> Does anyone who isn’t a scammer even know _how_ to “wire” money?
[15:18:08] <furrywolf> lol
[15:18:41] <furrywolf> I just replied that I would, as long as they can convince me they're not in nigeria. either it turns out they're legit, or I get some unexpected scambaiting fun in. :P
[15:18:53] * furrywolf wants a sign-holding picture
[15:23:23] <andypugh> Can’t they do Paypal?
[15:24:48] <tjtr33> cap banks at bottom http://imagebin.ca/v/1qs88DJXDs4P
[15:26:03] <furrywolf> I can't do paypal.
[15:26:46] <furrywolf> andy: yeah, that's a fair bit larger than mine.
[15:28:12] <furrywolf> I'm planning on an enclosure about 18" square and 6" deep.
[15:28:29] <furrywolf> for 5-axis, everything including spindle control.
[15:29:08] <furrywolf> my machine is somewhat smaller than whatever that controls. :)
[15:30:14] <furrywolf> I still haven't found a good box for it. where do you get an aluminum box about that size?
[15:30:21] <furrywolf> for a reasonable price.
[15:30:34] <furrywolf> I don't have a good brake, so don't want to build it...
[15:30:53] <andypugh> furrywolf: I split the power and logic elements into two areas. PC/controller cards and monitor in the UI box, power electronics in the machine base.
[15:31:07] <furrywolf> I'm putting everything in one box.
[15:31:16] <furrywolf> and a laptop to control it.
[15:31:28] <andypugh> furrywolf: I built ine from 20x20 : https://picasaweb.google.com/108164504656404380542/HarrisonMill#5901893704840742946
[15:32:23] <andypugh> Front: https://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo/ZlK_NFKt8oC7Z5unjtXjo9MTjNZETYmyPJy0liipFm0?feat=directlink
[15:32:58] * furrywolf is trying to make it load
[15:33:19] <furrywolf> that just loaded a big list of images
[15:33:20] <andypugh> I bet it is redirecting to google +?
[15:33:27] <furrywolf> yes
[15:33:29] <andypugh> Evil Google!
[15:34:11] <andypugh> https://picasaweb.google.com/108164504656404380542/HarrisonMill?no_redirect=1#5901893704840742946
[15:34:37] <andypugh> (I manually added no_redirect=1, perhaps that will help
[15:34:52] <andypugh> https://picasaweb.google.com/108164504656404380542/HarrisonMill?no_redirect=1#5901893708363513058
[15:35:14] <furrywolf> no
[15:35:35] <tjtr33> still a mosaic
[15:35:42] <furrywolf> link to an actual jpeg image, not crap. heh.
[15:35:57] <andypugh> I wish I could
[15:36:25] <andypugh> : https://picasaweb.google.com/108164504656404380542/HarrisonMill?noredirect=1#5901893704840742946
[15:36:33] <tjtr33> imagebin pastebin videbin
[15:36:36] <PetefromTn_> https://plus.google.com/photos/108164504656404380542/albums/5901688686374813281/5901893708363513058?pid=5901893708363513058&oid=108164504656404380542
[15:36:37] <andypugh> https://picasaweb.google.com/108164504656404380542/HarrisonMill?noredirect=1#5901893708363513058
[15:37:02] <andypugh> Pete that’s Google+, I am trying _not_ to give Google+ URLS
[15:37:08] <archivist> tjtr33, you forgot selfhost :)
[15:37:18] * furrywolf selfhosts
[15:37:30] <PetefromTn_> sorry
[15:37:32] <furrywolf> that finally worked
[15:37:34] <andypugh> The last two should work, it’s noredirect not no_redirect
[15:37:35] <tjtr33> yah ( and i like selfhots :)
[15:37:42] <furrywolf> that box looks like it costs more than my mill.
[15:38:06] <furrywolf> I just want a crappy aluminum alarm box or something. heh.
[15:38:07] <andypugh> It’s aboit $30 of 20x20 extrusion
[15:39:58] <furrywolf> if I do get stuck building it, I'd probably pop rivet to angle, not use fancy extrusions.
[15:40:42] <Crom_> out front next to my garage door I have a Nema3 cabinet which will be my electronics cabinet to my big cnc router when I get around to it.
[15:40:43] <andypugh> A friend built this super-fancy console for his lathe from separate extrusions and fittings: https://picasaweb.google.com/108164504656404380542/20131128noredirect=1#5981195064757441842
[15:41:09] <Crom_> 26" tall 20" wide, 10" deep
[15:41:42] <andypugh> Always make the cabinet at least 25% bigger than the absolute maximum that you think you need :-)
[15:41:46] <furrywolf> pop rivets are really nice, especially when you have an air pop rivet gun. :P
[15:42:04] <furrywolf> I'm making the cabinet based on the size of the pulley box on the side of the machine, so it fits onto it.
[15:43:01] <andypugh> Nah, you want to use real rivets. I made this hydraulic rivetter and now I find myself rivetting all sorts of things: https://picasaweb.google.com/108164504656404380542/NerACar?noredirect=1#6006362047843171890
[15:43:23] <furrywolf> http://fw.bushytails.net/shoptask02.jpg it'll be the same size as the box on the side of the machine.
[15:43:40] <furrywolf> maybe 20". need to measure it. lol
[15:43:50] <furrywolf> I don't think it's a full 2ft...
[15:44:24] <furrywolf> real rivets are more work.
[15:44:27] <andypugh> At the risk of making myself unpopular. Are you sure you want to CNC that?
[15:44:28] <tjtr33> wow' i'm dismantling a shoptask now and lifting pcs up the basement stairs haha
[15:44:43] <furrywolf> andy: it was cnc before, and has all the brackets, pulleys, etc.
[15:44:59] <furrywolf> it was stripped of the motors and electronics, but all the mechanicals are still there.
[15:45:14] <furrywolf> so the only fab work is making the box. heh.
[15:45:26] <andypugh> I CNC-ed this: https://picasaweb.google.com/108164504656404380542/CNCUnsorted?noredirect=1#5611904480713910226
[15:45:33] * MattyMatt expected pic of fred dibnah's hot rivet jackhammer
[15:45:39] <tjtr33> jmk cnc'd one, he had to beef up the quill. mine is just sloppy ( the rack & pinion drive )
[15:45:46] <andypugh> You will note that I then went on to CNC a real mill and I am shopping for a real lathe.
[15:45:49] <archivist> best thing is the wrench on the pallet
[15:46:40] <furrywolf> what, you like my diamond wrench, but not my snapon swivel impact sockets? :P
[15:47:07] <archivist> I collect adjustables
[15:47:34] <andypugh> archivist: You are not like other boys are you?
[15:47:46] <furrywolf> I collect everything, or at least I think that every time I try to clean my tools up and realize the number of times I've bought another of something because I didn't know where the other ones were...
[15:48:09] <archivist> you should read jmks blog on one of those shoptask things and the propblems
[15:48:30] <furrywolf> I have very little room, so a combo machine is nice, it has decent x and y travel (but piss-poor Z), and most importantly, it was cheap.
[15:49:13] <archivist> andypugh, er no http://www.adjustable.archivist.info/
[15:49:17] <furrywolf> archivist: I have probably a half dozen adjustables of that size, two larger ones, ten of one size smaller, ten two sizes smaller, and 3-4 little 4" ones...
[15:49:59] <furrywolf> and that's the US ones. the chinese ones I don't keep track of, as they're the ones I let people borrow, knowing I'll never see them again.
[15:50:12] <andypugh> furrywolf: Go for it, by all means. You will learn a lot, including what you want in a machine tool.
[15:50:27] <furrywolf> andy: oh, I know what I want. I also know you can't always get what you want.
[15:50:56] <archivist> sometimes you just have to wait for what you want
[15:51:08] <furrywolf> I want a big 5-axis machining center with all sorts of nice bits, that's the size of my living room. :P
[15:51:30] <MattyMatt> if the milling head swing was motorised, that might form the basis of a neat autochanger
[15:51:34] <furrywolf> I bought it for $100, which is about my budget.
[15:52:08] <tjtr33> you can remove the milling head assy and circumvent a lot of grief.
[15:52:13] <furrywolf> bbl, food
[15:52:26] <archivist> furrywolf, erm also forget about laptops, get old PCs
[15:52:29] <MattyMatt> dumpstercnc made a nice big slatbed lathe out of welded square tube etc
[15:52:56] <Deejay> gn8
[15:53:56] <furrywolf> archivist: I got a well-used toughbook that has excellent latency figures, and the power management only screws up if I do specific things.
[15:54:03] <furrywolf> plus it's waterproof and swarfproof.
[15:54:28] <furrywolf> I'm hoping I can save up enough money to get an ethernet board from pcw, but...
[15:54:49] <furrywolf> using a $10 chinese parallel board now
[15:55:13] <furrywolf> bbl
[15:55:34] <MattyMatt> I've got some ancient thinkpads with i915, but they do have EPP on the parport. I'm hoping they'll work well enough for testing and 3d printing
[15:57:42] <MattyMatt> but wheezy (not off the new livecd, but straight from debian) is unusable on them, so I'll have to try lucid lynx or headless
[15:58:35] <Crom_> They joys of multiple keyboards.. Looking at one screen and typing into the other keyboard
[15:59:17] <MattyMatt> 10.04 runs fine on a T40, except it doesn't see the parport
[15:59:55] <MattyMatt> latency spikes are dreadful, but hey it's an all stepper machine
[16:00:10] <Crom_> I'm running a Mini-box.com intel atom board with picoLCD 20x20 display case.. Nice little computer.. for over a year it was my TV computer
[16:00:50] <pcw_home> Ive been thinking of trying our Ethernet stuff on a Laptop
[16:00:51] <pcw_home> maybe a off lease Dell 6410/20 kind-off $200ish for a I7
[16:01:45] <pcw_home> (first or second gen)
[16:02:26] <skunksleep> http://electronicsam.com/images/KandT/testing/LaptopRTnet.jpg
[16:02:40] <MattyMatt> does that do all the motion control on the card? enough so that latency won't make jaggy diagonals?
[16:02:44] <andypugh> pcw_home: I am wondering if the ethernet boards will work with a Pi
[16:03:04] <skunksleep> That is an 2nd gen i5
[16:03:25] <MattyMatt> 1st gen P4-M here :p
[16:03:35] <pcw_home> RPI might work but probably rather dismal performance
[16:03:38] <MattyMatt> the ones with EPP have celerons
[16:04:04] <andypugh> pcw_home: The new one has a 900MHz quad-core CPU so may be rather more snappy
[16:04:09] <MattyMatt> new RPI has 4 core
[16:04:11] <skunksleep> That system runs realtime very well
[16:04:17] <pcw_home> though 250 Hz servo thread is ok for step/dir
[16:05:29] <pcw_home> skunksleep: thanks I'll pick one up and try
[16:06:12] <pcw_home> is there a Preemt-RT kernel for the new RPI?
[16:06:22] <skunksleep> The clickpad sucks though..
[16:06:23] <MattyMatt> they are hard to buy atm, they only came out a week or two ago and there's always a rush
[16:06:38] <andypugh> I have one
[16:07:02] <andypugh> They were announced, I ordered one, it arrived on Wednesday
[16:07:21] <pcw_home> MattyMatt: the stepgen is on the card and the sample time is done with a DPLL so 100s of usec latency is OK
[16:07:29] <skunksleep> andypugh: is the Ethernet non USB?
[16:07:38] <andypugh> I have no idea at all
[16:07:59] <pcw_home> that may be an issue...
[16:08:01] <andypugh> It is still in the antistatic bag, in fact.
[16:10:32] <Crom_> yea!! 66 bobbins, needles 15x1 and needle hook gears showed up! Now still waiting on cord and foot control for the newhome 2030 sewing machine
[16:11:00] <pcw_home> I need to get one of these tupperware PCs to test also
[16:11:02] <pcw_home> http://store.hp.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/us/en/pdp/desktops/hp-stream-mini-desktop---200-010
[16:11:03] <andypugh> CNC sewing machine?
[16:12:03] <Tom_itx> don't make the mistake of running it thru the dishwasher
[16:12:24] <MattyMatt> there was that one you plugged a gameboy into. only available in japan
[16:12:29] <pcw_home> Or putting potato salad in it
[16:12:34] <Tom_itx> heh
[16:13:06] <_methods> mmmmm
[16:13:09] <_methods> tater salad
[16:16:07] <skunksleep> pcw_home: some realtime.. http://electronicsam.com/images/KandT/testing/Screenshot%20from%202013-09-01%2017:59:48.png
[16:16:15] <PetefromTn_> only if it is red potato salad
[16:17:55] <skunksleep> But I remember it running the wheezy lived well also.. (Although I don't remember if it saw the wireless)
[16:18:58] <zeeshan|2> has anyone run an edm here?
[16:19:50] <_methods> wire edm years ago
[16:19:52] <_methods> why?
[16:19:55] <zeeshan|2> im wondering
[16:19:56] <Crom_> way to many years ago pre pc days infact
[16:19:59] <zeeshan|2> when you have an electrode
[16:20:05] <zeeshan|2> does it wear equivalent to the work piece
[16:20:11] <zeeshan|2> or can you adjust the settings so the electrode wears less
[16:20:13] <_methods> wire edm
[16:20:16] <_methods> i've never ran a sinker
[16:20:50] <Crom_> with settings just right there is almost no wear on the electrode
[16:21:22] <zeeshan|2> The major difference between ECM and EDM is that ECM uses electrolysis to remove material while EDM uses spark erosion to remove material.
[16:21:24] <Crom_> most important thing I remember is flood is your friend
[16:21:24] <zeeshan|2> is this true? :D
[16:21:29] <zeeshan|2> this is what i got out of reading a bunch of shit
[16:22:35] <Crom_> yep its true from what I remember
[16:24:10] <zeeshan|2> this laser peening processes is crazy
[16:24:11] <zeeshan|2> never seen this before
[16:27:16] <pcw_home> skunksleep: looks really good, I presume it gets bad if you don't disable all power management that you can
[16:31:17] <zeeshan|2> pcw_home: did you hear
[16:31:28] <zeeshan|2> i moved wires from l2 to l1 , hooked up control stuff
[16:31:34] <zeeshan|2> and power cycled a bunch of times, no blow up
[16:31:34] <zeeshan|2> :D
[16:33:52] <pcw_home> I guess you are a little gun-shy now...
[16:34:05] <skunkworks> pcw_home: I don't remember doing anything in the bios
[16:34:41] <pcw_home> OK I _will_ have to get a decent used Laptop to try
[16:39:53] <pcw_home> bbl
[16:40:48] <tjtr33> zeeshan|2, theres 2 rates Vw & Ve the removak rate on work and removal rate on electrode. The settings and materials are chose to optimzie Vw ( verschlies werkstuffe )
[16:41:07] <tjtr33> in EDM
[16:42:26] <zeeshan|2> ah
[16:52:49] <andypugh> From laser peining I got to “autofrettage” and from there to a lot of engineering papers with the amusing miss-spelling “autofrottage” (which is something _quite_ different)
[17:00:45] <FrozenCow_> i have some trouble with the latest machinekit image... it can't load hal_pru_generic
[17:01:03] <zeeshan|2> andypugh: maybe you know the answer to this q
[17:02:20] <FrozenCow_> it gives "insmod failed, returned -1", i guess it's because it can't find the module
[17:02:22] <andypugh> FrozenCow_: Unfortunately this may not be a good place to ask about Machinekit
[17:02:25] <zeeshan|2> http://i.imgur.com/XplcHkq.png
[17:02:30] <zeeshan|2> this is confusing me
[17:02:40] <zeeshan|2> how is this component in static equilibrium
[17:02:58] <FrozenCow_> I guess the machinekit docs needs updating https://github.com/machinekit/machinekit-docs/blob/master/src/common/Getting_LinuxCNC.asciidoc#irc
[17:03:41] <andypugh> zeeshan|2: In that the entire item is in compressive hoop stress?
[17:04:47] <andypugh> FrozenCow_: We know lots about LinuxCNC here. But hal_pru_generic is part of Machinekit and not LinuxCNC
[17:05:00] <zeeshan|2> yea
[17:05:03] <zeeshan|2> thats what it looks like to me
[17:05:13] <andypugh> zeeshan|2: I share your confusion.
[17:05:16] <zeeshan|2> haha
[17:05:31] <zeeshan|2> i'm wondering it's because of some sort of plastic hardening
[17:05:45] <FrozenCow_> andypugh, aah ok, that's good to know... wasn't sure what was part of which ;) I guess everything Beaglebone-related is part of machinekit?
[17:05:52] <andypugh> No, I don’t think there is any explanation
[17:06:05] <andypugh> FrozenCow_: Yes, pretty much
[17:06:15] <FrozenCow_> andypugh, alright, thanks!
[17:06:37] <andypugh> FrozenCow_: If you start from the command line, and look in the log file, you may get more info.
[17:06:56] <andypugh> I suspect that some parameter after the loadrt line is wrong
[17:07:47] <zeeshan|2> andypugh: could it be
[17:07:55] <zeeshan|2> that as you keep measuring deep enough
[17:08:02] <zeeshan|2> it'll go into tensile region?
[17:08:02] <zeeshan|2> it must
[17:08:06] <zeeshan|2> otherwise this part is moving in space
[17:08:06] <zeeshan|2> lol
[17:08:42] <FrozenCow_> ya, already did that... also set DEBUG=0x7fffffff, also found the line in the code that generated the somewhat unuseful error. I think it needs to load a .ko, but I see only a .so file with the same name
[17:08:43] <andypugh> It is asymptotically tending to zero. It doesn’t look likely to find a tensile pat
[17:09:01] <FrozenCow_> andypugh, but i guess that's all PRU and thus Beaglebone related
[17:09:15] <FrozenCow_> do you know where machinekit has their IRC channel by any chance?
[17:09:19] <andypugh> Yes, and I have nevr found a hal_pru manual page
[17:10:04] <tjtr33> nor an irc channel
[17:10:46] <FrozenCow_> k, i'll go open up an issue then ;) thanks for the help
[17:11:51] <tjtr33> fwiw derek malloy has written a good book on the BBB ( llok for his youtubes )
[17:14:56] <andypugh> FrozenCow_: Sorry we couldn’t help
[17:15:46] <zeeshan|2> andypugh: fix my amc drives!
[17:15:46] <zeeshan|2> :P
[17:20:50] <FrozenCow_> andypugh, no problem, it was just a bit confusing where to go for direct discussion for machinekit
[17:20:53] <andypugh> OK, I waved my magic wand. Do they now work?
[17:21:46] <andypugh> FrozenCow_: I searched the Machinekit docs for “pru” and got no results. It may be that I can’t work the docs.
[17:22:19] <andypugh> FrozenCow_: There is a Machinkit mailing list, you could ask there.
[17:22:22] <zeeshan|2> andypugh: i think i figured it out.
[17:22:30] <zeeshan|2> theyre using x-ray diffraction to measure that profile
[17:22:42] <zeeshan|2> and x-ray diffraction is garbage after .04 mm
[17:23:01] * zeeshan|2 can't th ink of another reason
[17:23:17] <andypugh> Makes some sense, I guess
[17:23:45] <zeeshan|2> http://thermalprocessing.com/media/uploads/assets/Images/figures/2014_Fall/0914_FZG_Fig18.jpg
[17:23:56] <zeeshan|2> again
[17:24:01] <zeeshan|2> for some reason these damn graphs flatten out
[17:24:21] <andypugh> Reminds me of some (engine) cylinder pressure data I got from colleagues that went down to -150 kPa.
[17:24:58] <andypugh> I suspect that part is many mm thick, though.
[17:32:28] <tjtr33> it works deeper than bead blasting ( shot peening ) http://www.sme.org/MEMagazine/Article.aspx?id=20229&taxid=3440
[17:33:35] <XXCoder> shoer peened lol
[17:33:44] <XXCoder> ashort
[17:39:18] <FrozenCow_> andypugh, yes, I'll post an issue on their github repo... i'm fairly certain it's just something that's missing in the image they've just distributed
[17:39:51] <tjtr33> quite a bit of that work being done at llnl , can you get access to those docs?
[17:45:26] <andypugh> Bother, I was just about to make a suggestion to the cold bovine
[17:54:52] <zeeshan|2> i wonder if thread milling is faster
[17:54:53] <zeeshan|2> than tapping
[17:54:57] <zeeshan|2> for a given size
[17:57:46] <andypugh> It seems unlikely
[17:58:12] <andypugh> But for 4” threads you need a strong spindle to turn the tap
[17:58:42] <zeeshan|2> yes
[17:58:45] <zeeshan|2> im trying to compare the pros and cons
[17:58:56] <zeeshan|2> im thinking cons for thread milling: need helical pathway (cnc)
[17:59:11] <zeeshan|2> 2. slower in comparison to tapping
[17:59:31] <zeeshan|2> pros: 1. less tooling needed (no need for multiple taps)
[17:59:46] <zeeshan|2> 2. less cutting forces (imagine tapping a 1" tap)
[17:59:51] <andypugh> Con: Taps can only make standard threads. Pro: Taps will always make a standard thread.
[18:00:04] <zeeshan|2> lol
[18:00:38] <andypugh> FrozenCow_: The hal_pru source code gives clues as to the valid entries in the module parameter
[18:01:05] <andypugh> https://github.com/machinekit/machinekit/blob/master/src/hal/drivers/hal_pru_generic/hal_pru_generic.c#L115
[18:02:23] <andypugh> Your loadrt line can only use the string values in the RTAPI_MP_XXX( sections. So “num_pwmgens” is OK, and “pru_period “is OK. You may have something not included there?
[18:13:43] <Tom_itx> zeeshan|2 you may need 2 or 3 thread mills depending on the pitch variation you plan to make
[18:13:57] <zeeshan|2> yea but a lot of them
[18:13:59] <zeeshan|2> cover a huge range
[18:14:10] <Tom_itx> as far as taps, we used to get undersize taps so they would be a snug fit per print
[18:14:16] <Tom_itx> yes they do
[18:14:24] <Tom_itx> they are quite expensive too
[18:15:15] <zeeshan|2> 42 bux
[18:15:16] <zeeshan|2> from mari tool
[18:15:21] <Tom_itx> $5 for a tap or $50 for a threadmill
[18:15:25] <zeeshan|2> thats hell of a lot cheaper
[18:15:30] <zeeshan|2> than 1-1/4" tap
[18:15:39] <zeeshan|2> :D
[18:15:52] <andypugh> Search this web page: http://www.f1-2000.co.uk/index.php?f=conrods for the word “terrifying” for an interesting thread-mill thing.
[18:15:56] <zeeshan|2> ya i'd stick to tapping smaller sizes
[18:16:02] <zeeshan|2> but thread milling makes a lot more sense for weird sizes
[18:16:03] <zeeshan|2> that are large
[18:16:31] <Tom_itx> yeah
[18:16:33] <Tom_itx> probably so
[18:16:34] <zeeshan|2> has better cheap evac, less cutting forces, can mill to different thread fits
[18:16:39] <zeeshan|2> if tap breaks, you're f'ed
[18:16:47] <zeeshan|2> w/ thread mill rerun g-code
[18:17:13] <zeeshan|2> the only cons i can think of are: slower, can't tap smaller sizes, requires helical path, highly dependent on the machine accuracy to create correct threads
[18:17:38] <zeeshan|2> i guess i can say expensive for smaller sizes
[18:18:29] <andypugh> M2 really is quite small
[18:18:43] <zeeshan|2> they make a m2 thread mill?
[18:18:54] <zeeshan|2> does it need to be spun at 200,000 rpm
[18:18:54] <zeeshan|2> lol
[18:18:58] <andypugh> Did you follow the link?
[18:19:05] <zeeshan|2> no
[18:19:11] <zeeshan|2> your damn text comes up all funny for me
[18:19:15] <zeeshan|2> whwnever you use quotes
[18:19:17] <zeeshan|2> it destroys my irc
[18:19:20] <zeeshan|2> i still havent figured out why
[18:20:02] <zeeshan|2> okay down to 3 cons
[18:20:03] <zeeshan|2> :-)
[18:20:09] <andypugh> Search this web page: http://www.f1-2000.co.uk/index.php?f=conrods for the word ( terrifying ) for an interesting thread-mill thing.
[18:20:26] <zeeshan|2> back t o4 cons
[18:20:32] <zeeshan|2> "smaller thread mill sizes need high speed spindles"
[18:20:33] <zeeshan|2> :D
[18:20:44] <zeeshan|2> """"""""""""""""""
[18:20:51] <zeeshan|2> < trying to destroy andypugh's irc
[18:20:51] <andypugh> Not really, you can just work slowly
[18:21:08] <andypugh> That guys deckel horizontal spindle is not fast
[18:21:35] <zeeshan|2> im suprised hes not snapping that
[18:21:41] <zeeshan|2> that thing is a toothpic
[18:21:45] <andypugh> so was he :-)
[18:21:58] <andypugh> No, it’s a lot thinner than a toothpick
[18:22:50] <andypugh> The shank can’t possibly be more than 1.2mm or it wouldn’t work
[18:26:01] <zeeshan|2> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tu2GFst6Ehs
[18:26:02] <zeeshan|2> wow.
[18:26:04] <zeeshan|2> this is crazy
[18:26:18] <zeeshan|2> thats a great way to stop deflection
[18:26:28] <zeeshan|2> god i really want a twin spindle lathe
[18:26:30] <zeeshan|2> theyre so awesome
[18:27:11] <Tom_itx> it's the font he uses
[18:27:15] <Tom_itx> mine does it too
[18:28:01] <renesis> electromagnetic 'drawbar' for neodymium loaded tool holders
[18:28:05] <renesis> WILL IT BLEND!?
[18:28:06] <Tom_itx> ok tonight i'm gonna test the 'inhibit' code
[18:28:28] <renesis> for micromills
[18:28:58] <andypugh> I think it is because I am on a Mac and it uses different quotes for beginning and end
[18:29:24] <renesis> i hate that
[18:29:54] <andypugh> Hey, if your software is too brain-dead to cope woth correct grammmar….
[18:29:55] <renesis> ms word will do that if you useit as a paste pad
[18:30:20] <renesis> the angle of the slant of the quotes is a bit overkill i think
[18:31:37] <andypugh> Is this "better" ?
[18:32:30] <renesis> ""
[18:32:33] <renesis> use those
[18:32:46] <renesis> i those are those but im not sure
[18:32:53] <renesis> ^think
[18:33:04] <andypugh> I don't tyoe anything special
[18:33:05] <zeeshan|2> andypugh: i see quotes
[18:33:06] <zeeshan|2> from you!
[18:33:08] <zeeshan|2> WOW
[18:33:22] <andypugh> Yeah, I found a setting to change
[18:33:39] <tjtr33> linux ubuntu 10.04 xchat doesnt have any probs with the up/down dbl quotes
[18:33:42] <andypugh> I don't like it though :-)
[18:33:53] <andypugh> Look ugly
[18:34:16] <zeeshan|2> """
[18:34:26] <zeeshan|2> do you know what font set it is ?|
[18:34:48] <zeeshan|2> im using "langauge encoding"
[18:34:55] <zeeshan|2> force langauge: "en"
[18:37:28] <Crom_> weeee just remounted a headlight of one of our actresses
[18:38:42] * furrywolf must have a different definition of headlight
[18:39:37] <andypugh> zeeshan|2: _my_ font choices have no effect on what _you_ see
[18:39:59] <zeeshan|2> andypugh: i only have one reply to that: """""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""
[18:40:03] <zeeshan|2> :-)
[18:40:24] <andypugh> zeeshan|2: I have no problem seeing your string of quotes, it causes me no problems at all
[18:40:36] <XXCoder> """""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""
[18:40:40] <zeeshan|2> haha
[18:41:17] <furrywolf> ,,¿sǝʇonb uʍop ǝpᴉsdn ʇnoqɐ ʇɐɥʍ,,
[18:41:29] <andypugh> No probem at all
[18:41:59] <XXCoder> furrywolf: only one unknown charactor
[18:42:13] <XXCoder> I love font im using
[18:42:19] <furrywolf> lol
[18:42:25] <andypugh> I rather suspect that any possible character encoding will be rendered correctly by my software.
[18:42:30] <XXCoder> IIIlllllIIIIlllIIlll
[18:42:37] <tjtr33> &lsquo, &rsquo dunno how to embed html in irc chat
[18:43:02] <furrywolf> for some reason it rendered perfectly when I pasted it, but didn't render at all in the channel area, so I have no idea if it got sent right or not.
[18:43:07] <tjtr33> errrr &ldquo, &rdquo
[18:44:09] <andypugh> furrywolf: I guess it was actually made of normal text and the extras they tend to use for phonetics, like the upside-down e ?
[18:44:15] <zeeshan|2> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-9jMN9Bgg6g
[18:44:16] <zeeshan|2> wow
[18:44:28] <furrywolf> andy: probably
[18:44:53] <furrywolf> did it render correctly for you?
[18:45:19] <andypugh> furrywolf: Yes
[18:45:38] <andypugh> zeeshan|2: A better example of polygon turning
[18:45:39] <andypugh> http://youtu.be/KMdBIBzGtKI
[18:45:44] <furrywolf> I think it's my irc client. I need to figure out how to install bitchx.
[18:45:49] <zeeshan|2> whats its advantage?
[18:45:55] <XXCoder> hexchat here
[18:45:59] <zeeshan|2> if you had a live spindle
[18:46:01] <zeeshan|2> you could do the same?
[18:46:12] <XXCoder> only flaw for it is that if I reconnect often enough it will crash (windows bug)
[18:46:24] * furrywolf doesn't use windows
[18:46:34] <XXCoder> then you has no problem
[18:46:41] <zeeshan|2> notice how the tool stays stationary in the Z direction
[18:46:43] <zeeshan|2> and the part gets fed
[18:46:43] <zeeshan|2> lol
[18:46:48] <zeeshan|2> means less dfelction
[18:46:58] <andypugh> zeeshan|2: That's what "Swiss" lathes do
[18:47:21] <andypugh> zeeshan|2: Polygonal turning with LinuxCNC: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T4q8gCpeY1A
[18:47:44] <furrywolf> I've heard bitchx no longer compiles on modern linux, but I haven't tried...
[18:47:55] <furrywolf> I know debian removed it for failing to compile.
[18:48:06] <zeeshan|2> andypugh: i see the polygon turning part
[18:48:12] <zeeshan|2> but youre not feeding the part through the psindle!
[18:48:12] <zeeshan|2> :P
[18:48:19] <XXCoder> furrywolf: hexchat is avilable on linux
[18:48:26] <zeeshan|2> but your video shows how it works much better
[18:48:30] <PetefromTn_> damn thats cool huh
[18:48:32] <XXCoder> most distubations but theres download for pre-14.04 ubuntu
[18:48:32] <zeeshan|2> thats just a single point?
[18:48:48] <andypugh> zeeshan|2: Yes
[18:48:58] <andypugh> The other way is much faster, of course
[18:49:20] <zeeshan|2> lol thats so bad ass
[18:49:22] <zeeshan|2> the allen key test
[18:49:25] <furrywolf> xxcoder: you do realize hexchat is absolutely nothing like bitchx, right? :P
[18:49:43] <XXCoder> yeah. never used bitchx though
[18:50:03] <XXCoder> whats it like
[18:50:25] <furrywolf> it's like epic but not sucking.
[18:50:36] <XXCoder> not familiar with epic either lol
[18:50:42] <tjtr33> thats a great video andy, like some joke that ends with 'Sez Me!'
[18:51:11] <andypugh> This is a close-up of a hexagonal hole I bored with that setup: https://picasaweb.google.com/108164504656404380542/CNCUnsorted?noredirect=1#5832691539222904034
[18:51:14] <furrywolf> yeah, methinks you haven't been on irc very long. :P
[18:51:23] <XXCoder> long time actuallu
[18:51:29] <XXCoder> just not much vareity of clients
[18:51:36] <furrywolf> '80s? '90s?
[18:51:40] <XXCoder> 90s
[18:51:53] <XXCoder> then long gap till 2009 or so
[18:52:19] <furrywolf> and you never used epic or an epic-derived client? what, were you using windows the whole time?
[18:52:28] <XXCoder> well yes lol
[18:52:37] <XXCoder> home pc has always been windows
[18:52:44] <PetefromTn_> andypugh You had logged off yesterday but I would like to salute you for your amazing skills and craftsmanship rebuilding that bike. Amazing stuff and you really have a way of making linuxCNC stand up and dance....Well done my friend
[18:52:47] <XXCoder> while I use linux for college and various oither stuff
[18:53:42] <zeeshan|2> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-9jMN9Bgg6g
[18:53:45] <zeeshan|2> i really want to know hwo the hell
[18:53:48] <zeeshan|2> they're moving the work piece
[18:54:01] <furrywolf> short version: there's a class of console irc clients, including epic, bitchx, and so forth, all somewhat similar in use.
[18:54:19] <jdh> I used epic for 15? years
[18:54:31] <XXCoder> oh console version. never used those. nice :)
[18:54:51] <furrywolf> jdh: epic STILL doesn't have tab nick completition. it is pissing me off muchly.
[18:54:55] <zeeshan|2> lol @ bitchx
[18:55:01] <zeeshan|2> that thing is ancient
[18:55:10] <jdh> I have tab mapped to next window anyway
[18:55:15] <XXCoder> zeeshan|2: nice video
[18:55:18] <andypugh> PetefromTn_: The real magic is HAL, and John Kasunich added that (against some resistance, I believe). It means that between the control and the hardware it is all just numbers and you can do anything that you fancy doing there.
[18:55:49] <XXCoder> just checked out bitchx site
[18:55:50] <furrywolf> sure 'nuff, doesn't compile....
[18:55:51] <XXCoder> old style
[18:56:03] <XXCoder> even has html 4.01 ansi standard logo
[18:56:07] <andypugh> zeeshan|2: It's a Swiss Lathe.
[18:56:46] <XXCoder> new site https://github.com/BitchX
[18:56:48] <zeeshan|2> how does it do the clamping mechanism?
[18:56:51] <andypugh> There is a spindle behind that collet that holds the bar and that slides backwards and forwards. What you see is a second collet which just supports the bar.
[18:57:35] <andypugh> http://www.cnc-training.com/tandp/jul03.htm
[18:58:00] <XXCoder> latest bitchx nov 16 2013. pretty old but not ancient
[18:58:13] <zeeshan|2> XXCoder: its old :P
[18:58:17] <zeeshan|2> look at when it first came out
[18:58:44] <jdh> bitchx is pretty new, comparatively
[18:58:55] <andypugh> zeeshan|2: You can actually do the same thing with a normal lathe if you have a frame and a support collet on the saddle.
[18:59:11] <zeeshan|2> you need a bar feeder too i guess?
[18:59:23] <furrywolf> wow there's a fuckton of compiler warnings
[18:59:28] <andypugh> You can sort-of see the support collet as a particularly effective travelling steady
[18:59:52] <XXCoder> the 2013 version furry?
[18:59:56] <andypugh> zeeshan|2: Yes and you need super-accurately sized bar stock
[19:00:06] <zeeshan|2> ah
[19:00:21] <XXCoder> andypugh: can always accurately size bar before using it
[19:00:47] <andypugh> Yes, you just buy centreless-ground bar
[19:01:41] <tjtr33> is the guide slip fit or does it ever grab?
[19:02:04] <furrywolf> looks like it doesn't play with current versions of ncurses
[19:02:24] <XXCoder> ncurses = shell display library right?
[19:02:55] <andypugh> tjtr33: I have exhausted my knowledge on this subject :-)
[19:03:15] <furrywolf> yes
[19:03:55] <furrywolf> so far three minor tweaks, waiting to see what doesn't compile next...
[19:04:22] <XXCoder> heh I last used ncurses at college project. I would ay round 2008 or so
[19:04:32] <XXCoder> ants on subject of designing game logic
[19:05:58] <furrywolf> looks like my tweaks were non-beneficial, as it compiled, but segfaults the instant you run it.
[19:06:02] <Crom_> can linuxcnc handle an armed robotic arm with a spindle at the end?
[19:06:40] <furrywolf> no, for armed robots, you need a badass action hero.
[19:07:02] <andypugh> Crom_: I don't see why not
[19:07:14] <tjtr33> thx andypugh looks like the guide does grab http://goo.gl/IENXDN
[19:08:18] <andypugh> tjtr33: Not sure what that link is showing me?
[19:08:28] <tjtr33> pix of swiss actions
[19:08:38] <andypugh> And non-swiss too
[19:08:53] <tjtr33> yah, google is always a junk box of pix
[19:09:05] <Crom_> it would be cool to have a desktop armed cnc mill
[19:10:18] <furrywolf> -Wall makes it sooooo ugly...
[19:10:21] <andypugh> Crom_: How about this one? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nebJ59TcYlQ
[19:11:03] <PetefromTn_> I love that video.. really good looking machine idea
[19:11:47] <fluffybitchx> XXCoder: yay! nick completion!
[19:11:48] <XXCoder> hmm stupid idea: run old linux in vm and run curses in it
[19:12:02] <XXCoder> you made it work?
[19:12:11] <andypugh> This is the monster hexapod at NIST that LinuxCNC was first written to control (as I understand it) https://c2.staticflickr.com/6/5224/5884929289_3fdd57e6db.jpg
[19:12:12] <fluffybitchx> I got the git version rather than the tarball
[19:12:12] <Crom_> thinking more on the order of central pivot with a robotic arm
[19:12:17] <XXCoder> nice
[19:12:44] <XXCoder> andypugh: and next: 4d cnc ;)
[19:12:51] <fluffybitchx> I'd love to build a mini tabletop robotic arm...
[19:12:52] <XXCoder> x,y,z,w
[19:12:54] <PetefromTn_> jeez that is a monster
[19:13:50] <fluffybitchx> I was at a shop a while ago that had an electric gantry crane, that could move on rails in all directions... I was thinking it'd sure make one big cnc machine... about 40ft by 150ft by 12ft... lool
[19:13:59] <fluffybitchx> lol
[19:14:01] <andypugh> I wonder who the guy is? Possibly Fred Procter.
[19:14:18] <XXCoder> furry I bet!
[19:14:26] <XXCoder> just need way to control it via computer
[19:14:39] <XXCoder> then you can make 1:1 scale of thinking man or lincorn statue
[19:14:42] <Crom_> fluffybitchx, that I'd make into a 3d printer using concrete
[19:15:17] <fluffybitchx> you'd need to rig up linear feedback of some form. my first thought would be wire rope around a grooved drum (constant diameter) and rotary encoder.
[19:15:45] <tjtr33> look up the original emc robo-crane
[19:15:52] <andypugh> fluffybitchx: Lasers
[19:16:01] <Crom_> fluffybitchx, rig laser range finders
[19:16:21] <andypugh> Or, for fun, a clicker at the work point and microhones at each corner of the room.
[19:16:55] <Crom_> andypugh, spark gap noise maker
[19:17:31] <fluffybitchx> brb
[19:17:38] <Crom_> I remember a digitizer using 2 mics and a pen with a sparker in it
[19:17:49] <andypugh> (You can buy that system, for locating points in a big space, like acellermeters on a car body in a modal testing facility. It would certainly beat walking round a Transit van with a 1m Faro arm like I once had to do.)
[19:18:14] <fluffybitchx> can't seem to make xterm's fonts work properly. oh well.
[19:19:03] <zeeshan|2> http://www.rack-a-tiers.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2012/03/robertson-screws.jpg
[19:19:09] <zeeshan|2> curiousity
[19:19:12] <codepython7771> does anyone use a usb servo controller here?
[19:19:16] <zeeshan|2> are therse common in usa and uk?
[19:19:32] <XXCoder> fluffybitchx: I do recommand Inconsolata but no idea if it'd work in shell
[19:19:34] <fluffybitchx> they're common in canuckland.
[19:19:37] <andypugh> I have seen them in the UK, but they are uncommon,
[19:19:46] <zeeshan|2> wow
[19:19:51] <zeeshan|2> what do you guys use?
[19:19:55] <zeeshan|2> they are ALL over here
[19:20:02] <zeeshan|2> almost impossible to strip
[19:20:12] <andypugh> Mainly Posidrive in the UK now
[19:20:20] <XXCoder> usb servo? interesting
[19:20:26] <zeeshan|2> hm
[19:20:28] <zeeshan|2> looks like a philips
[19:20:41] <zeeshan|2> with extra stars
[19:20:48] <andypugh> A bit more parallel on the drive faces than Phillips
[19:20:48] <Crom_> still mainly P2 phillips, though torx star quite a bit
[19:21:06] <zeeshan|2> almost all our electrical panels
[19:21:09] <zeeshan|2> to wood working stuff uses those
[19:21:27] <fluffybitchx> robertson is sold as generic "square" in the us.
[19:21:48] <fluffybitchx> they used to be common for deck and drywall screws, but torx ("star") has pretty much completely displaced them.
[19:22:25] <Crom_> RObertson wear out too quick... torx much better
[19:22:39] <fluffybitchx> yep. torx bits can take a LOT of use before they wear.
[19:23:00] <andypugh> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Screw#Screw_head_shapes
[19:23:11] <zeeshan|2> bullshit
[19:23:14] <zeeshan|2> i strip torx all the time
[19:23:16] <Crom_> fun part is finding bit durable enough without being to brittle
[19:23:41] <PetefromTn_> square drive screws are very common in woodworking circles here
[19:24:08] <zeeshan|2> http://www.ls2.com/boggs/t56rebuild/Tranny20Rebuild20T3020Alignment20bolts.jpg
[19:24:11] <zeeshan|2> i stripped that shit
[19:24:31] <zeeshan|2> to go slot it
[19:24:37] <zeeshan|2> and use an impact flat
[19:24:51] <zeeshan|2> to go = had to
[19:25:05] <Crom_> zeeshan|2, hehe I've had to do that more than I'd like to admit
[19:25:09] <fluffybitchx> http://wedo.hillmangroup.com/viewitems/deck-screws/flat-head-star-drive-powerpro-screws I think you get about 20 pounds of those per torx bit... I use them for all my wood construction.
[19:26:15] <fluffybitchx> even a worn torx bit will snap the screw before slipping
[19:26:51] <zeeshan|2> honestly for car stuff
[19:26:55] <zeeshan|2> i just order them before hand now
[19:26:59] <fluffybitchx> and I ram them in with an impact driver, which is harder on the bits.
[19:27:00] <zeeshan|2> because i know im gonna destroy one or two
[19:27:19] <fluffybitchx> I've never stripped an automotive-size non-rusty torx screw.
[19:27:27] <witnit_> fluffybitchx sound like alter ego to furrywolf
[19:27:33] <zeeshan|2> hahahahah
[19:27:39] <fluffybitchx> witnit: I finally got bitchx installed!
[19:27:43] <XXCoder> after a bad day maybve
[19:27:43] <witnit_> nice :)
[19:27:45] <fluffybitchx> I have nick completition finally.
[19:28:15] <zeeshan|2> im gonan do my servo test shit now
[19:28:30] * Tom_itx puts up the blast shield
[19:28:37] <XXCoder> did my link help furry
[19:28:42] <fluffybitchx> I have no idea how epic has been around and STILL doesn't have nick completition.
[19:28:45] <fluffybitchx> which link?
[19:28:55] <XXCoder> last one, it was to bitchx repo
[19:29:50] <fluffybitchx> the github one? yeah, that's what I ended up using. the tarball was too far from working.
[19:30:10] <XXCoder> glad to be bit of help
[19:30:35] <XXCoder> out for now laters
[19:32:29] <anarchos2> anyone know where i can get one of those solid sliding way guards for my z axis?
[19:35:34] <Crom_> besides making one?
[19:38:55] <anarchos2> yea
[19:40:33] <fluffybitchx> hrmm
[19:41:43] <Crom_> hmmm table guard has some returns
[19:41:54] <Crom_> hmmm tableinterlocking guard has some returns
[19:42:27] <fluffybitchx> wow. the first result in a google search for something on bitchx was gopher. that brings back memories...
[19:42:37] <tjtr33> sliding way cover works well for a search
[19:42:40] <witnit_> zeeshan|2 you should set up camera and live feed for us
[19:43:10] <witnit_> telescoping way cover may do
[19:43:35] * fluffybitchx wonders how many people here remember gopher
[19:43:49] <tjtr33> and kermit
[19:44:06] <fluffybitchx> what, no xmodem? :P
[19:44:11] <witnit_> fluffybitchx do you know rhapsody
[19:44:53] <Crom_> interlocked table guard southwestern industries
[19:45:12] <witnit_> the irc client
[19:45:26] <fluffybitchx> no
[19:46:05] <witnit_> i use a floppy distro still from time to time and i assumed it was just some old small irc
[19:46:57] <tjtr33> gorplate buww hennig all on 1st search
[19:47:59] <zeeshan|2> haha witnit
[19:48:20] <witnit_> do eeeet
[19:48:21] <CaptHindsight> tjtr33: are you just entering random made up words?
[19:49:05] <PetefromTn_> he's speaking TJ--ese
[19:49:56] <tjtr33> those are correct spellingsof sliding way cover mfctrs
[19:50:28] <CaptHindsight> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Veronica_%28search_engine%29
[19:50:44] <CaptHindsight> oh and Archie
[19:51:04] <CaptHindsight> 25 years
[19:51:50] * LeelooMinai adds Mosaic
[19:52:02] <CaptHindsight> http://archie.icm.edu.pl/archie-adv_eng.html Last surviving Archie web interface
[19:52:48] <zeeshan|2> http://i.imgur.com/kjPLsno.png
[19:52:52] <zeeshan|2> guess what im measuring at the volt meter
[19:53:02] <CaptHindsight> have to log off soon, this service is ~25 cents per minute
[19:53:20] <zeeshan|2> fluffybitchx: wake up!
[19:53:21] <zeeshan|2> :P
[19:53:36] <PetefromTn_> Ouch
[19:53:40] <fluffybitchx> something other than 0?
[19:53:43] <zeeshan|2> yep
[19:53:48] <zeeshan|2> 1.7V
[19:53:50] <fluffybitchx> and you need to draw a schematic for that?!
[19:53:57] <zeeshan|2> yes
[19:54:00] <zeeshan|2> easier to show then type
[19:54:04] <fluffybitchx> lol
[19:54:05] <zeeshan|2> *than
[19:54:11] <fluffybitchx> maybe for you. :P
[19:54:16] <LeelooMinai> That looks like TINA simulator
[19:54:18] <zeeshan|2> when i measure from 12v to motor chassis
[19:54:22] <fluffybitchx> ok, so now you know your motor has a short to ground. which is probably why it blows drives. :P
[19:54:27] <zeeshan|2> i get 0.06 A
[19:54:52] <zeeshan|2> when measure between brake and chassi
[19:54:54] <zeeshan|2> i get 0.03 mA
[19:54:57] <zeeshan|2> er
[19:54:58] <zeeshan|2> 0.03A
[19:55:18] <fluffybitchx> eh? the brake is shorted to ground too?
[19:55:21] * LeelooMinai wonders if zeeshan|2 ran out of drives and decided to step it up to simulators
[19:55:27] <fluffybitchx> lol
[19:55:43] <zeeshan|2> well i dont know if its a bs reading
[19:55:46] <zeeshan|2> or a real reading :P
[19:55:49] <CaptHindsight> bad motors, that sux
[19:55:50] <zeeshan|2> its pretty repeatable
[19:56:01] <fluffybitchx> and it would definitely explain blown drives.
[19:56:20] <zeeshan|2> i wonder if me keeping the brake on all the time
[19:56:24] <zeeshan|2> keeping it energized
[19:56:25] <zeeshan|2> caused it
[19:56:39] <fluffybitchx> what's the resistance reading between the motor windings and the case? brake winding and case?
[19:56:50] <zeeshan|2> lemme check
[19:56:59] <tjtr33> remove motor and read same? ( GND to motor_chassis)
[19:57:11] <tjtr33> haha forget it
[19:59:38] <zeeshan|2> infinite
[19:59:43] <Crom_> anarchos2, looking at possible searches: way cover, chip cover, table guard
[19:59:43] <fluffybitchx> hrmm
[19:59:54] <fluffybitchx> that disagrees with your previous readings.
[20:00:04] <zeeshan|2> well im calling 8 Mohm
[20:00:05] <zeeshan|2> infinite
[20:01:49] <fluffybitchx> connect both leads of the motor to +12v, then measure between the motor case and ground. repeat with both brake leads.
[20:01:59] <fluffybitchx> rotate slowly while measuring
[20:02:08] <fluffybitchx> (for the motor leads, shouldn't matter for brake leads)
[20:03:38] <zeeshan|2> 7.3 ohm bulb
[20:04:00] <fluffybitchx> bulb not needed. it's not going to do anything with both leads connected together...
[20:04:07] <zeeshan|2> trying to do some math here
[20:04:11] <zeeshan|2> 1.64A draw in circuit
[20:04:38] <zeeshan|2> R = V / I = 1.7/1.64
[20:04:48] <zeeshan|2> 1 ohm
[20:04:49] <zeeshan|2> wtf ?
[20:04:55] <zeeshan|2> why am i not measuring that
[20:05:12] <fluffybitchx> I have no idea what you're measuring or what those numbers are.
[20:05:24] <zeeshan|2> the bulb is inseries w/ the power supply
[20:05:28] <zeeshan|2> its drawing 1.64A
[20:05:42] <fluffybitchx> you're not doing the test I just asked about, then. :)
[20:05:49] <zeeshan|2> i will
[20:05:54] <zeeshan|2> but if its a real short
[20:05:58] <zeeshan|2> itll burn some shit
[20:06:03] <zeeshan|2> if i connect it directly
[20:06:12] <fluffybitchx> no, it won't. I said connect _both leads_ to +12v.
[20:06:19] <fluffybitchx> the only thing connected to - will be your multimeter.
[20:06:23] <zeeshan|2> o
[20:06:43] <zeeshan|2> youre trying to put a potential diff
[20:06:43] <zeeshan|2> ok
[20:07:37] <andypugh> fluffybitchx: gopher://gopher.quux.org/1/
[20:07:54] <fluffybitchx> if you measure 0v, try rotating the motor slowly.
[20:08:49] <Crom_> anarchos2, http://www.buww.com/new_way_cover.html
[20:08:53] <andypugh> fluffybitchx: The really wierd thing is that that link, on my Mac, opens the windows XP VM !
[20:08:54] <Crom_> not cheap!
[20:09:19] <fluffybitchx> I don't have a gopher client installed...
[20:09:47] <andypugh> Some web borwsers "Just WorK"
[20:10:40] <CaptHindsight> http://gopher.quux.org:70/ works fine with FF, but it can't handle the /1
[20:11:16] <zeeshan|2> fluffybitchx:
[20:11:20] <zeeshan|2> there is signficant damage to this motor
[20:11:23] <zeeshan|2> im convinced now
[20:11:36] <zeeshan|2> i kinda reversed what you ewr saying
[20:11:42] <zeeshan|2> i clamped +12v to the motor chassis directly
[20:11:57] <zeeshan|2> and measured the voltage coming out of tachometer, brake, and motor leads
[20:12:01] <zeeshan|2> tachometer = 0
[20:12:07] <zeeshan|2> brake = 5.1 v
[20:12:12] <zeeshan|2> motor leads = 1.7V
[20:12:23] <zeeshan|2> clearly ohm test doesnt tell you shit
[20:12:35] <fluffybitchx> actually, your ohms test is accurate.
[20:12:40] <zeeshan|2> how
[20:12:43] <zeeshan|2> im getting infinite
[20:12:52] <fluffybitchx> no, you're getting 8Mohm
[20:13:07] <tjtr33> but the DS1 will conduct from chassis to L1 in that setup
[20:13:17] <zeeshan|2> tjtr33: no bulb connected
[20:13:20] <fluffybitchx> the meter's own resistance is generally in the range of 10mohm-1gohm... so you end up with a voltage divider.
[20:13:24] <zeeshan|2> 12v connected directly to motor chassis
[20:13:32] <zeeshan|2> and im measuring voltage at the wires coming out of the motor
[20:13:37] <tjtr33> ok
[20:13:37] <zeeshan|2> the motor leads specifically, and brake
[20:13:44] <zeeshan|2> motor is fried
[20:13:48] <fluffybitchx> what's it read on a current scale?
[20:13:56] <zeeshan|2> ??
[20:14:09] <fluffybitchx> switch your meter to amps instead of volts
[20:14:17] <zeeshan|2> youre trying to make my meter explode?
[20:14:22] <fluffybitchx> but, yeah, you shouldn't be reading anything. the motor is likely damaged...
[20:14:30] <zeeshan|2> bright side
[20:14:31] * LeelooMinai hopes zeeshan has at least few multimeters
[20:14:33] <zeeshan|2> i didnt blow up anotehr drive
[20:14:36] <fluffybitchx> It's very odd that both the motor and brake would be shorted to case, however.
[20:14:48] <fluffybitchx> time to take it apart and see what it all looks like
[20:14:48] <zeeshan|2> hey man
[20:14:54] <zeeshan|2> im just telling you what its telling me
[20:14:57] <zeeshan|2> in my experience
[20:15:03] <zeeshan|2> winding shorts are not easy to find even after you take it apart
[20:15:19] <zeeshan|2> you pretty much have to get it rewound
[20:15:42] <andypugh> fluffybitchx: This link _might_ allow you to play the game I wrote in 1983 inside an emultor inside a web browser: http://www.worldofspectrum.org/infoseekplay.cgi?title=Johnny+Reb&pub=MC+Lothlorien+Ltd&year=1983&id=0002635&game=/games/j/JohnnyReb.tzx.zip&emu=3
[20:15:50] <fluffybitchx> no, winding shorts are not... but a big black blob where a winding was is pretty easy to spot, as is a broken brush holder rubbing on the frame, degreaded internal wiring, carbon or metal filings filling the housing, etc...
[20:16:02] <zeeshan|2> fluffybitchx: congrads man
[20:16:03] <zeeshan|2> we found the problem
[20:16:05] <zeeshan|2> :-)
[20:16:21] <zeeshan|2> i can sleep easier tonight
[20:16:22] <fluffybitchx> I suspected this problem earlier, but the readings always came back good before.
[20:16:33] <zeeshan|2> yea the 8 Mohm threw me off.
[20:16:43] <zeeshan|2> im gonna recheck all this
[20:16:44] <fluffybitchx> andypugh: is it worth my trying to make java work?
[20:16:44] <Crom_> still MOV's man! HAHAHAa
[20:16:45] <zeeshan|2> with some other meters
[20:16:49] <zeeshan|2> crom ROFL
[20:16:52] <fluffybitchx> zeeshan|2: now try with 180V. :P
[20:17:01] <zeeshan|2> fluffybitchx: let me try with AC
[20:17:10] <zeeshan|2> and use my hand too
[20:17:11] <andypugh> fluffybitchx: I doubt it, it's a 1983 game on a 16k z80
[20:17:25] <fluffybitchx> remember how I said that insulation testers always use high voltage, because many problems don't show up at low voltage resistance tests? :)
[20:17:45] <Crom_> what was the Atari 2600 4K RAM?
[20:18:25] <fluffybitchx> if it really is 8Mohm, it wouldn't be frying drives.
[20:18:37] <fluffybitchx> if it's 8Mohm at 0.5v and a dead short at 180V, on the other hand...
[20:19:27] <Crom_> yep, it's a 1v MOV
[20:19:47] <fluffybitchx> I don't remember what my altair 8800 has, but unless someone here has a pdp-11 sitting in a box, it's probably the oldest here. :P
[20:20:08] <CaptHindsight> zeeshan|2: I would have bought the other mill to retrofit vs this one
[20:20:23] <andypugh> fluffybitchx: I was _using_ a PDP11 at work 2 years ago
[20:20:41] <Crom_> fluffybitchx, true... your have boot loader ROM on that machine?
[20:20:52] <fluffybitchx> andypugh: that's sad.
[20:21:05] <fluffybitchx> Crom_: good question.
[20:21:42] <tjtr33> zeeshan|2, maybe of use http://www.eswtesters.com/documents/Electrical%20Test%20Procedures%20for%20Armatures,%20Stators%20and%20motors.PDF
[20:21:46] <andypugh> Not really. It was insalled in 1986 to run an engine dynamometer. It continued to do that job well until the dyno was replaced.
[20:22:02] <Crom_> or is it the 9 switches. set 8 bit, toggle clock
[20:22:10] <Crom_> or is it the 9 switches. set 8 bit, toggle clock. set 8 bit, toggle clock. set 8 bit, toggle clock. set 8 bit, toggle clock. set 8 bit, toggle clock. set 8 bit, toggle clock. set 8 bit, toggle clock. set 8 bit, toggle clock. set 8 bit, toggle clock. set 8 bit, toggle clock. set 8 bit, toggle clock
[20:22:44] <Crom_> unless you were luck and had a paper tape reader
[20:22:49] <Crom_> lucky
[20:23:30] <tjtr33> used asr33 clickety clickety clickety a bucket fulla chad
[20:23:54] <tjtr33> http://bytecollector.com/asr_33.htm
[20:25:50] <andypugh> fluffybitchx: I have a HP100LX somewhere…
[20:26:06] <andypugh> I gave away the Whitechapel HiTec
[20:26:35] <andypugh> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Whitechapel_Computer_Works
[20:26:44] <andypugh> But it still runs at a friend's house
[20:27:53] <tjtr33> Milliard Gargantubrain love it
[20:28:06] <fluffybitchx> I regret scrapping my tektronix scientist calculator...
[20:29:03] <fluffybitchx> http://www.oldcalculatormuseum.com/tek909.html I had one of those
[20:29:41] <fluffybitchx> 329 ICs!
[20:30:46] <CaptHindsight> http://c1.q-assets.com/images/products/p/md/md-030_1z.jpg my first calculator ~ age 4
[20:30:46] <jdh> I have two pdp11's in production
[20:31:21] <fluffybitchx> I blew it up doing something idiotic while trying to repair something else, and tossed it, not realizing it'd be special some day in the future.
[20:33:12] <fluffybitchx> (idiotic: I plugged a cable in backwards.)
[20:36:00] <tjtr33> zeeshan|2, an old school auto repair shop may have this equipment a growler http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Growler_%28electrical_device%29
[20:36:08] * fluffybitchx has a growler
[20:36:15] <fluffybitchx> and I pasted two videos on how to use one before.
[20:36:31] <Crom_> I have 3 grownlers
[20:36:33] <tjtr33> ah, i mentioned it also, good idea
[20:36:52] <fluffybitchx> so you can test three motors at once? :P
[20:38:57] <tjtr33> how come his frame ground is not his GND ground?
[20:41:03] <fluffybitchx> ?
[20:41:22] <andypugh> Goodnight chaps
[20:41:41] <tjtr33> his dwg showed a potential from GND to motor_chassis
[20:42:47] <tjtr33> isnt the motor bolted to machine frame & machine frame connected to star gnd?
[20:44:32] <fluffybitchx> he's testing the motor on his workbench now
[20:48:10] <XXCoder> back
[20:49:35] <XXCoder> wow so many chips
[21:00:58] <fluffybitchx> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:IMO_Muster_station_sign.jpg so who, without reading the description, can figure out what that sign is?
[21:01:41] <XXCoder> yes, 4 mini people must help any family at this location
[21:01:53] <XXCoder> seriously dunno
[21:02:32] <fluffybitchx> I'm not sure which is worse, signs in a language you can't read, or graphics that make just as much sense.
[21:02:38] <jdh> anyone know of a uC board like an arduino kind of, but not... mostly set up to do USB HID
[21:03:36] <_methods> pro micro
[21:03:38] <zeeshan|2> does it growl
[21:03:38] <_methods> teensy
[21:03:56] <_methods> off the top of my head both of those should do usb hid
[21:03:58] <zeeshan|2> i connected +12v to my entire chasis of the mill
[21:04:03] <zeeshan|2> and decided to probe various things
[21:04:10] <zeeshan|2> like x and y motors
[21:04:16] <zeeshan|2> they both read 5.4V out of the motor leads
[21:04:16] <zeeshan|2> ?
[21:04:27] <Tom_itx> jdh have you looked at the LUFA library?
[21:04:36] <_methods> there's that too
[21:04:47] <_methods> with normal arduino and lufa
[21:05:20] <_methods> the teensy 2.0's are cheap now too and do usbhid out of the box with the teensy firmware i think
[21:05:37] <jdh> that's the one I was looking for. thanks
[21:05:40] <_methods> the teensy bootloader
[21:06:01] <Tom_itx> i wonder if dean took his site down... i can't find it now
[21:06:06] <_methods> the teensy 3.0's are getting cheaper too
[21:06:24] <zeeshan|2> is there a reason if i a connect 12v to a 24vdc power supply
[21:06:26] <_methods> they use cortex m0 i think
[21:06:30] <jdh> actually I was thinking of one that had dual usb
[21:06:34] <_methods> the new teensy 3.1 is using a m4 i think
[21:06:36] <zeeshan|2> connect 12v to the ground of a 24vdc power supply
[21:06:44] <zeeshan|2> that the L1 probes 12v also ?
[21:07:21] <Crom_> ok... 51.43 degree x 7 = 360.01 close enough
[21:09:15] <fluffybitchx> zeeshan|2: that would suggest there's nothing actually wrong with the z motor, then...
[21:09:25] <zeeshan|2> fluffybitchx: :-(
[21:09:44] <zeeshan|2> why would there be any voltage at any of the motor leads anyway?
[21:09:47] <zeeshan|2> that makes no sense
[21:10:21] <fluffybitchx> built-up carbon being slightly leaky, dirty grease, etc.
[21:10:47] <zeeshan|2> what is bothering me more now is when i connect 12v to my power supply chassis
[21:10:52] <zeeshan|2> it spits out 12v l1
[21:12:32] <fluffybitchx> that means something is conducting between ground and l1... which isn't entirely odd. how much it's conducting is a better test.
[21:12:48] <fluffybitchx> do you tie ground and neutral together in your panel? (hint: you shouldn't)
[21:12:55] <zeeshan|2> main panel yea
[21:13:15] <fluffybitchx> the one on the machine, not the one in the house
[21:13:21] <zeeshan|2> oh ofcourse not
[21:13:21] <zeeshan|2> :P
[21:13:43] <pcw_home> measuring leakage with a voltmeter is not very useful
[21:14:15] <fluffybitchx> so how are you testing this? you connected +12V to your machine's ground, and measuring from your 12 supply's - to l1 is reading 12v?
[21:14:24] <zeeshan|2> yes
[21:14:49] <fluffybitchx> put your handy 2v light bulb between - and l1 and make sure it doesn't light.
[21:14:50] <fluffybitchx> 12v
[21:15:20] <zeeshan|2> wouldnt a led be a better idea
[21:15:26] <zeeshan|2> since its more sensitive
[21:15:39] <zeeshan|2> needs like 25mA to light up vs the 1.6 A
[21:15:49] <pcw_home> put a 1k resistor across the voltmeter
[21:15:58] <fluffybitchx> I'm testing for a gross short, but yes, an led would work too.
[21:16:04] <pcw_home> than you have 1V = 1ma
[21:16:30] <fluffybitchx> how sure are you of your house's ground? and are you still using a 12v car battery, or a 12v power supply, which may tie - to ground with a jumper or such?
[21:16:58] <pcw_home> 12V PC power supplys common is power ground
[21:17:05] <zeeshan|2> what do you mean how sure
[21:17:28] <zeeshan|2> im gonna try the 1k / led test
[21:18:10] <fluffybitchx> I mean, when your machine is operating normally, are you sure your ground lug in your machine makes it all the way back, through wiring, plugs, receptacles, subpanels, whatever, to your house ground in your main panel, where it is correctly tied to neutral?
[21:18:43] <zeeshan|2> yes
[21:18:46] <zeeshan|2> brb
[21:20:03] <fluffybitchx> I'm spending too much time working on your mill instead of working on my mill.... I'll need to find something you can do for mine. :)
[21:22:45] <zeeshan|2> haha
[21:22:51] <zeeshan|2> illl machine you stuff!
[21:23:04] <zeeshan|2> w/ a 1k ohm resistor in series with the probe
[21:23:07] <zeeshan|2> still gettin 12v
[21:24:25] <fluffybitchx> parallel, not series
[21:25:49] <Crom_> ok 20" circle. 7 pins at 8" from center included angle is 51.43 degrees each segment
[21:26:31] <Crom_> splitting the circle in half so 4 holes on 1 half, and 3 holes on the other
[21:27:24] <zeeshan|2> o
[21:30:47] <Tom_itx> wonder why or2.out isn't flipping when either input is tripped
[21:31:36] <Tom_itx> watching it in hal show
[21:34:37] <zeeshan|2> okay im getting bs reading
[21:34:40] <zeeshan|2> with the 1k ohm in parallel
[21:34:44] <zeeshan|2> w. voltmeter
[21:34:56] <zeeshan|2> its telling me 0 mA for everything
[21:34:56] <zeeshan|2> lol
[21:35:28] <fluffybitchx> ok, so it's minor leakage, not a short.
[21:35:45] <zeeshan|2> no
[21:35:55] <zeeshan|2> when i even connect it to the 12v directly
[21:35:59] <zeeshan|2> it still measures 0
[21:36:10] <fluffybitchx> then you're doing something very wrong.
[21:36:13] <knas> hey i was here asking a bunch of questions yesterday about a slave axis that won't work properly, one of the motors seems to stop going all of a sudden. Well i've narrowed it down to it maybe having something to do with microstepping because it's only when i try and jog the motor reallly slow that it's showing up. Furthermore i've noticed that once the stalling happens one motor will run one way and the other will run the other way - agai
[21:36:13] <knas> n only at really low speeds. any hints on what's up much appreciated.
[21:36:29] <pcw_home> Tom_itx: did you addf the function to a thread
[21:36:31] <fluffybitchx> did you attempt to measure the mA output of your 12v power supply and pop the meter's current scale fuse?
[21:36:46] <malcom2073> Got my mill home, woot!
[21:36:51] <zeeshan|2> congrads!!
[21:37:03] <pcw_home> The meter should be on voltage
[21:37:07] <zeeshan|2> it is on voltage
[21:37:12] <malcom2073> Only took 5 hours, a crane, and taking the ram off to get it loaded
[21:37:15] <fluffybitchx> then why is it telling you 0mA? :P
[21:37:18] <malcom2073> Took two of us 5 minutes to unload it haha
[21:37:22] <zeeshan|2> sometimes it tells me 50mA
[21:37:26] <zeeshan|2> sometimes it tells me 0 ma
[21:37:28] <zeeshan|2> it cycles
[21:37:36] <fluffybitchx> ... why is it reading A if it's on voltage?
[21:37:46] <Tom_itx> mmm i swear or2 isn't working like it's supposed to
[21:37:57] <zeeshan|2> i meant to say V.
[21:38:00] * fluffybitchx tries to figure out if the problem is the meter or the typer
[21:38:00] <zeeshan|2> not mA
[21:38:03] <Tom_itx> it's in hal show but either input trigger results in no output
[21:38:10] <zeeshan|2> mV
[21:38:22] <zeeshan|2> lemme read above
[21:38:28] <zeeshan|2> i think i misread
[21:38:31] <fluffybitchx> so, with a 1K resistor in parallel with the meter probes, your meter reads 0V even when connected to a 12V power source?
[21:38:50] <fluffybitchx> that sounds to me like your wiring is faulty....
[21:39:04] <pcw_home> hal show doesn not update, you want hal watch
[21:39:04] <zeeshan|2> maybe my meter is garbage
[21:39:30] <Tom_itx> woops
[21:39:34] <Tom_itx> op error
[21:39:38] <zeeshan|2> gonna try another meter
[21:39:46] <Tom_itx> i had the servo thread commented out :)
[21:39:59] <_methods> hehe
[21:40:01] <_methods> that sux
[21:40:18] <pcw_home> well that will keep the outputs static
[21:41:04] <Tom_itx> heh sure would
[21:41:16] <Tom_itx> now i think i need to move edge before the or
[21:41:34] <Tom_itx> or my one shot won't work switching directly from forwared to reverse spindle directions
[21:41:34] <malcom2073> A bit dark, but it's in the garage now: http://i.imgur.com/lphUlfm.jpg
[21:41:39] <Tom_itx> the output stays high
[21:41:56] <malcom2073> Better brighter photos tomorrow when the sun comes out
[21:42:00] <Tom_itx> so i need 2 edge triggers on each or input instead of one on it's output
[21:42:33] <pcw_home> or set the oneshot to trigger on either edge
[21:42:44] <pcw_home> and feed it spindle dir
[21:46:33] <Tom_itx> hmm
[21:46:41] <Tom_itx> what' spindle dir ouput?
[21:46:55] <Tom_itx> hi for fwd, low for rev?
[21:47:01] * Tom_itx checks
[21:47:30] <Tom_itx> but i need it to trigger when either is enabled
[21:47:35] <Tom_itx> not a toggle
[21:47:45] <Tom_itx> i don't think spindle-dir will do that
[21:48:15] <Tom_itx> i'll watch it though
[21:48:18] <pcw_home> it will trigger the one shot when asserted or deasserted
[21:50:22] <Tom_itx> but what state is it in when the spindle is stopped?
[21:50:27] <Tom_itx> that's the problem i see
[21:50:52] <pcw_home> I assume its false (but may be wrong)
[21:51:51] <Tom_itx> i don't see a motion.spindle-dir in the list
[21:52:08] <zeeshan|2> i think i found the problem
[21:52:13] <zeeshan|2> i have fans in parallel w/ the power supply.
[21:52:40] <zeeshan|2> when i disconnect the fans, i get .69V reading at the power supplies
[21:52:49] <zeeshan|2> 69 mA leakage current iguess
[21:53:15] <zeeshan|2> is that acceptable for 3 power supplies in parallel?
[21:53:26] <zeeshan|2> 5v 60w, 240w 24v, 400w pc supply
[21:54:00] <pcw_home> 0.69V is 0.69 mA
[21:54:06] <zeeshan|2> oh
[21:54:18] <zeeshan|2> im reading 0 to the motor leads
[21:54:30] <zeeshan|2> and 0.007V to brake coil
[21:55:17] <zeeshan|2> so the damn motor is okay after all.
[21:55:18] <zeeshan|2> shrug
[21:56:09] <fluffybitchx> 0.69ma leaking for a fan sounds a bit high...
[21:56:16] <zeeshan|2> not for a fan
[21:56:19] <zeeshan|2> thats just for the 3 supplies
[21:56:25] <zeeshan|2> when i close the fans
[21:56:26] <fluffybitchx> which supplies?
[21:56:27] <zeeshan|2> i get 12v.
[21:56:34] <Tom_itx> ok that's better
[21:56:45] <zeeshan|2> 5v 60w, 240w 24v, 400w pc supply in parallel
[21:56:57] <zeeshan|2> + 3 fans in parallel (i disconenct these when i got .69V reading)
[21:57:01] <Tom_itx> from spindle stop to either direction i get a pulse and from forward to reverse i get a pulse and vise versa
[21:57:37] <fluffybitchx> so you're still hooking 12v to the chasis ground, and measuring the voltage at l1, with a 1k resistor in parallel with the meter probes?
[21:57:47] <zeeshan|2> yea
[21:57:57] <zeeshan|2> so remember neutral is a gross short right now
[21:58:06] <zeeshan|2> cause ground and neutral are connected at the home panel
[21:58:14] <fluffybitchx> you're doing this with the system live?!
[21:58:16] <witnit> http://www.ebay.com/itm/HARDINGE-HCT-Turret-Chucking-Lathe-Second-Operation-With-5C-Collet-Closer-/310980165124?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item4867dcbe04
[21:58:20] <zeeshan|2> fluffybitchx: no
[21:58:25] <zeeshan|2> but ground and neutral are always connected
[21:58:27] <tjtr33> zeeshan|2, are you using North American household 240 'single phase' (made for large household appliances) or real 240 3 phase?
[21:58:28] <witnit> looks expensive to me, but maybe someone in california?
[21:58:30] <zeeshan|2> even with the disconnect
[21:58:38] <zeeshan|2> tjtr33: single phase
[21:58:43] <fluffybitchx> tjtr33: north american split single phase
[21:58:57] <zeeshan|2> N --------- fan --------- L1
[21:59:02] <zeeshan|2> if n is 12v
[21:59:09] <zeeshan|2> and i measure at l1
[21:59:17] <zeeshan|2> it should essentially be a short?
[21:59:21] <fluffybitchx> so all you're measuring is that the fans conduct line to neutral. that's not really surprising. :)
[21:59:23] <zeeshan|2> cause the fan windings offer o resistance
[21:59:26] <tjtr33> yah yah and any error in house can cause you grief,,, sorry if i'm not optimistic
[21:59:27] <zeeshan|2> yea
[21:59:54] <zeeshan|2> okay power system checks out ok
[22:00:05] <Tom_itx> ok the fwd/rev relay signal pulsed .3696ms before the inhibit pulse but i don't think the relays will react that quick
[22:00:19] <zeeshan|2> and now im unsure about the frigging z motor again
[22:00:22] <zeeshan|2> back to where i started lol
[22:00:30] <fluffybitchx> if the z motor measures the same as the x and y motors...
[22:00:41] <zeeshan|2> well z motor leads measure 1.7
[22:00:41] <fluffybitchx> I'm surprised how much leakage it has, but it seems all three read the same.
[22:00:44] <zeeshan|2> x and y measure 5v
[22:00:50] <fluffybitchx> measure with your 1k resistor connected.
[22:00:54] <zeeshan|2> o
[22:00:55] <fluffybitchx> it'll be 0
[22:01:47] <fluffybitchx> you're making a voltage divider between your meter and the motor leakage... 6v would mean your meter has the same impedance as the leakage in the motor...
[22:03:11] <fluffybitchx> if it read a good 12v, it'd show a major failure, not just leakage
[22:06:45] <Tom_itx> pcw_home would a cap across the relay inputs slow them down a bit?
[22:06:53] <Tom_itx> or would that be bad
[22:07:14] <Tom_itx> i don't really want the relay switching before the inhibit even if it's only .3ms
[22:08:07] <Tom_itx> the coil input that is...
[22:08:37] <fluffybitchx> ouch. I just worked out that to run an LED off my 60V supply, I need a 1W resistor.
[22:08:49] <zeeshan|2> why ouch
[22:09:22] <zeeshan|2> 2mV on the Z motor
[22:09:23] <fluffybitchx> because wasting a watt of power to run a 30mW led is just silly?
[22:09:26] <zeeshan|2> 11mV on the x and y motor
[22:09:35] <zeeshan|2> fluffybitchx: lol
[22:09:47] <fluffybitchx> ... so the suspect motor leaks LESS than the good ones?
[22:09:53] <zeeshan|2> yea
[22:10:06] <fluffybitchx> now slowly rotate the z motor through a complete turn while measuring
[22:10:07] <zeeshan|2> its got 7 mV on the brake coils.
[22:11:23] <fluffybitchx> now I need to figure out how to invent a 3.2K 1W resistor from my bucket of 1/4W resistors.
[22:11:36] * fluffybitchx puts four 1K in series and calls it close enough
[22:11:37] <pcw_home> The relay will not be faster than 10 ms or so
[22:11:58] <Tom_itx> yeah but i need a tiny relay across the inhibit line on the drive too
[22:12:10] <Tom_itx> i've got some 5v HE101 hamlin relays i was gonna use for that
[22:12:14] <zeeshan|2> Tom_itx: im glad its working out
[22:12:15] <zeeshan|2> :-)
[22:12:19] <Tom_itx> slowly
[22:12:27] <fluffybitchx> ohh, I have a pink LED. should I use pink for my 60V rail hot indicator? hot... pink...
[22:12:33] <pcw_home> maybe you need to delay the direction relay
[22:12:48] <Tom_itx> zeeshan|2, i'm just getting the code ready hoping that interface will work
[22:13:10] <Tom_itx> pcw_home, yea that's why i was asking about the cap across it's input
[22:13:22] <pcw_home> better in hal
[22:13:32] <Tom_itx> edge?
[22:13:38] <pcw_home> delay comp
[22:13:42] <Tom_itx> oh
[22:13:52] <fluffybitchx> dissipating .841W in a 1W resistor is unwise, right?
[22:13:56] <Tom_itx> it doesn't need much and may not need it at all
[22:14:08] <Tom_itx> i just don't want a tiny spike hitting the relay contacts
[22:14:14] <zeeshan|2> fluffybitchx: dont be a ricer
[22:14:17] <zeeshan|2> forget the led ! :P
[22:14:45] <fluffybitchx> I like supply on LEDs.
[22:14:52] <Tom_itx> in a perfect world, the inhibit would hit then the fwd/rev relays would switch
[22:14:54] <fluffybitchx> they make diagnostics easier.
[22:15:01] <zeeshan|2> fair enough
[22:15:04] <pcw_home> so disable time of 100 ms or so and time delay of 50 ms
[22:15:13] <fluffybitchx> especially if they're not brightness regulated, so you can see it dim on load and flash on motor decel...
[22:15:23] <pcw_home> (time delay on dir relay)
[22:15:30] <Tom_itx> right
[22:15:44] <fluffybitchx> anything interesting while rotating the z motor a turn?
[22:15:50] <Tom_itx> i guess that would only take one delay comp
[22:16:01] <pcw_home> Yeah
[22:16:14] <Tom_itx> i just don
[22:16:34] <Tom_itx> i just don't want too much delay between switching for ridid tapping and things like that
[22:16:40] <pcw_home> Ive found its pretty easy to try this stuff on the fly with halcmd
[22:17:07] <Tom_itx> btw is there a way to reload the hal file without restarting lcnc every time?
[22:17:09] <fluffybitchx> bah, ok, just to make you happy, I'll use green rather than hot pink.
[22:17:41] <Tom_itx> i'm not so experienced with halcmd yet
[22:17:48] <pcw_home> No but you can wire/unwire stuff with halcmd when linuxcnc is running
[22:18:11] <Crom_> finally burning ubuntu 10.04 boot cd77
[22:19:28] <pcw_home> 1991 linuxcnc
[22:19:30] <pcw_home> 1992 halcmd loadrt minmax
[22:19:31] <pcw_home> 1993 halcmd addf minmax.0 servo-thread
[22:19:33] <pcw_home> 1994 halcmd show pin minmax
[22:19:34] <pcw_home> 1995 net read-delay minmax.0.in hm2_7i76e.0.dpll.phase-error-us
[22:19:36] <pcw_home> 1996 halcmd net read-delay minmax.0.in hm2_7i76e.0.dpll.phase-error-us
[22:19:42] <Tom_itx> gawd i love being able to make bitfiles... moved things around a bit to get another io or two for this...
[22:20:05] <pcw_home> (just did this to test maximum read jitter on my test rig)
[22:20:24] <Tom_itx> what's minmax for?
[22:20:29] <zeeshan|2> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hfnEuRA7-vo
[22:20:29] <Tom_itx> i don't need that do i?
[22:20:31] <zeeshan|2> fluke meter
[22:20:38] <zeeshan|2> @ 2300V
[22:20:42] <pcw_home> minimum and maximum values of a float
[22:21:10] <Tom_itx> do i need that for delay?
[22:21:11] <pcw_home> no just showing that you can test stuff interactively
[22:21:15] <Tom_itx> ok
[22:21:45] <skunkworks> halcmd is aweesome
[22:21:53] <XXCoder> random thought when I ead about leds here. I wonder if theres capactors big enough to make led flashlight last in least a hour
[22:21:57] <Tom_itx> i should get to know it i suppose
[22:21:59] <pcw_home> it is
[22:22:06] <fluffybitchx> zeeshan|2: are you goofing off and watching random videos instead of working on your mill?
[22:22:12] <zeeshan|2> fluffybitchx:
[22:22:13] <zeeshan|2> lol
[22:22:18] <zeeshan|2> im honestly frustrated w/ my mill
[22:22:25] <zeeshan|2> randomly blows fucking drives
[22:22:27] <zeeshan|2> for no good reason
[22:22:40] <fluffybitchx> me too. every part seems to work individually, but it fails when you put it together.
[22:22:58] <zeeshan|2> i dont mean to put pcw down
[22:23:01] <zeeshan|2> but i dont think moving from l2 to l1
[22:23:11] <zeeshan|2> is going to save my drive
[22:23:30] <fluffybitchx> unless you have a bad neutral...
[22:23:33] <pcw_home> I think its possible
[22:24:13] <zeeshan|2> how to find a bad neutral
[22:24:14] <zeeshan|2> :P
[22:24:40] <Tom_itx> ohm it?
[22:26:00] <fluffybitchx> that video is part of why I have a 40kv probe. heh.
[22:27:03] <pcw_home> think of the big thump you get from multiple drives switching on on L1 charging their
[22:27:04] <pcw_home> filter capacitors and pulling neutral down for 30ms or so when the contactor switches,
[22:27:05] <pcw_home> nicely frying the drive on L2
[22:27:44] <fluffybitchx> it'd have to be a very bad neutral...
[22:28:11] <fluffybitchx> plug the largest load you have between l1 and neutral (space heater, etc), and measure neutral to ground.
[22:28:37] <Crom_> bbl, installing a cd drive and rebooting to 10.04 ubuntu cd
[22:28:39] <zeeshan|2> that'd have to be my space heater
[22:28:44] <zeeshan|2> 1400w
[22:28:56] <zeeshan|2> you wanna see if it explodes?
[22:29:39] <fluffybitchx> it won't explode. it'll just measure a couple volts.
[22:30:45] <zeeshan|2> honestly i know its not a bad neutral wire
[22:30:58] <zeeshan|2> i plugged it into a completely different plug
[22:31:01] <zeeshan|2> and also remember
[22:31:07] <zeeshan|2> ive cycled z drive w/ the same wiring
[22:31:10] <zeeshan|2> 25+ times now
[22:31:16] <zeeshan|2> some of those times abusingly.
[22:31:25] <zeeshan|2> like a kid playing with a light switch :)
[22:31:31] <zeeshan|2> it did not blow it up.
[22:31:34] <zeeshan|2> but then again, it has been shifted to l1
[22:31:39] <fluffybitchx> it's your wiring or your motor. pick one. :P
[22:31:40] <fluffybitchx> lol
[22:31:49] <zeeshan|2> only way to find out
[22:31:51] <zeeshan|2> is hook up the motor
[22:31:53] <zeeshan|2> :-)
[22:32:30] <Tom_itx> you've been stewing over that motor for 2 days now... plug it in!
[22:32:33] <fluffybitchx> measuring neutral resistance is easy, and will help eliminate things.
[22:32:43] <Tom_itx> put some resistance in series with it
[22:33:24] <fluffybitchx> ?
[22:33:25] <zeeshan|2> honestly im tired of fakin around
[22:33:34] <zeeshan|2> im just gonna take this motor to a local servo repair place
[22:33:39] <zeeshan|2> theyre like 20 min away
[22:33:50] <zeeshan|2> ask them to high pot test it
[22:33:52] <zeeshan|2> and do all their tests.
[22:34:03] <Tom_itx> take the drivers with you
[22:34:10] <Tom_itx> so they can see what happened
[22:34:22] <fluffybitchx> heh, that's not a bad idea. this motor did THIS (point to stack of bad drives).
[22:34:25] <zeeshan|2> i highly doubt theyre good with microelectronics
[22:34:30] <zeeshan|2> LOL fluffybitchx
[22:34:43] <Tom_itx> i didn't say they were but they're probably not dummies either
[22:34:52] <zeeshan|2> a lot of these rebuild guys
[22:34:54] <zeeshan|2> are plug and play
[22:35:11] <Tom_itx> so find the oldet fart in the building and ask him
[22:35:16] <Tom_itx> oldest*
[22:35:19] <zeeshan|2> :)
[22:35:56] <Tom_itx> turn on his hearing aid first
[22:36:02] <fluffybitchx> the motor rebuild shop here seems competently staffed
[22:36:29] <Tom_itx> i have one i go to for motor help and i trust them
[22:37:04] <fluffybitchx> they once said they might have a job for me... I probably should have taken it.
[22:37:09] <fluffybitchx> this being broke all the time thing sucks.
[22:37:09] * Tom_itx quits delaying to write this delay code now...
[22:37:29] <zeeshan|2> fluffybitchx: do you have qualifications??
[22:37:48] <fluffybitchx> no
[22:37:56] <zeeshan|2> you really should do night school or something
[22:38:03] <zeeshan|2> you know what youre doing when it comes w/ the stuff
[22:38:41] <fluffybitchx> school sucks. heh.
[22:38:46] <zeeshan|2> school = $$
[22:38:47] <Tom_itx> what the heck is the delay comp called?
[22:38:47] <zeeshan|2> :D
[22:38:54] <zeeshan|2> Tom_itx: time
[22:38:55] <fluffybitchx> I was going to teach, but couldn't put up with the educational system any longer.
[22:39:06] <Tom_itx> duh
[22:39:18] * fluffybitchx TAed for two years, running a lab class...
[22:39:43] <zeeshan|2> Tom_itx: i bookmark this page
[22:39:46] <zeeshan|2> http://www.linuxcnc.org/docs/2.4/html/hal_components.html#r1_2_92
[22:39:52] <zeeshan|2> its my go to wheneever im looking for hal comps
[22:40:15] <zeeshan|2> i like how it gives descriptions
[22:40:18] <Tom_itx> i have it open already
[22:40:20] <zeeshan|2> without any of the syntax flooding it
[22:40:45] <zeeshan|2> fluffybitchx: well do something you like
[22:40:51] <zeeshan|2> the best is when you're doing something you like
[22:40:54] <zeeshan|2> and getting paid for it :P
[22:40:55] <Tom_itx> oh... not that one :)
[22:41:13] <Tom_itx> is Cycle Timer used by the system??
[22:41:33] <fluffybitchx> I like helping and teaching people. they all refuse to pay. do you want to be the first to change this trend? :P
[22:41:38] <zeeshan|2> what are you tryiung to do tom
[22:41:42] <Tom_itx> it's code i don't think i put there...
[22:41:48] <zeeshan|2> fluffybitchx: i pay with machining
[22:41:49] <zeeshan|2> :-)
[22:42:17] <Tom_itx> zeeshan|2 i'm making a delay for the fwd/rev relay to make sure it trips when the drive is in inhibit
[22:42:20] <zeeshan|2> https://github.com/araisrobo/linuxcnc/blob/master/src/hal/components/timedelay.comp
[22:42:24] <zeeshan|2> look at how complex this timedelay comp is
[22:42:25] <zeeshan|2> lol
[22:42:27] <tjtr33> man timedelay
[22:42:27] <Tom_itx> to save the contacts
[22:43:13] <zeeshan|2> http://linuxcnc.org/docs/2.6/html/man/man9/timedelay.9.html
[22:44:03] <zeeshan|2> loadrt timedelay count=0, timedelay.0.on-delay 21390210239181seconds
[22:44:43] <zeeshan|2> net fwdrevdelay timedelay.0.out <whateveryou'retryingto delay>
[22:44:46] <zeeshan|2> i think thats how it works
[22:45:25] <Tom_itx> i only need a few ms
[22:45:29] <zeeshan|2> no
[22:45:32] <zeeshan|2> you have toi put 290332190812382389 seconds
[22:45:34] <zeeshan|2> minimum
[22:45:42] <Tom_itx> what is that in min?
[22:45:44] <Tom_itx> 1?
[22:45:44] <pcw_home> The reason I suspect neutral is that in all three cases the drives were disabled when they popped
[22:45:45] <pcw_home> normally when disabled it would not cause a problem to have a armature short or short to ground in the motor
[22:45:47] <pcw_home> since all MOSFETs are off
[22:45:50] <zeeshan|2> couple decades i thin
[22:45:58] <zeeshan|2> im messing with you
[22:46:00] <zeeshan|2> the number is in seconds
[22:46:18] <Tom_itx> i would grow old waiting for that you ninny
[22:46:43] <zeeshan|2> i'd test out just the timer manually first
[22:46:49] <zeeshan|2> to ensure its owkring how you think it is
[22:47:10] <atom1> i'm doing everything with a logic analyzer
[22:47:21] <zeeshan|2> mr fancy pants
[22:47:25] <zeeshan|2> with his logic analyzer
[22:47:25] <zeeshan|2> !
[22:47:30] <atom1> no guesswork here
[22:47:43] <zeeshan|2> fak LeelooMinai really pissed me off
[22:48:03] <zeeshan|2> ive never met someone so selfish before :p
[22:48:17] <fluffybitchx> heh, what did she do now?
[22:48:29] <zeeshan|2> i dunno why i brought tha tup
[22:48:33] <zeeshan|2> logic analyzer reminded me
[22:48:37] <atom1> sry
[22:48:41] <zeeshan|2> :)
[22:48:52] <tjtr33> step away from the keyboard, step away from the motors and drives, take a rest
[22:49:00] <zeeshan|2> no
[22:49:04] <zeeshan|2> tonight we blow up another drive
[22:49:09] <zeeshan|2> it's been already 2 days since the last blow up
[22:49:23] <zeeshan|2> im just trying to setup my camera mount
[22:49:27] <zeeshan|2> so i can capture it on video thjis time
[22:49:52] <atom1> i suppose the delay value can be 0
[22:49:59] <pcw_home> You could do a cheap lopot test of the motor
[22:50:06] <zeeshan|2> how
[22:51:02] <fluffybitchx> wire 120v up to both leads, hold onto something grounded with one hand, poke the motor with the other hand.
[22:51:28] <pcw_home> get a 120V incandescent light bulb put it in series with the 120V hot and connect to one side or the motor wires
[22:52:02] <zeeshan|2> i've done some shady things before
[22:52:07] <pcw_home> (making _very_ sure that the machine frame is grounded)
[22:52:09] <zeeshan|2> but i thats a little too much for me too
[22:52:09] <zeeshan|2> rofl
[22:52:17] <Tom_itx> oh hell.. try it
[22:52:21] <zeeshan|2> no
[22:52:23] <zeeshan|2> ill just get it tested
[22:52:28] <fluffybitchx> oh, and while you're at it, stick your finger in a light bulb socket.
[22:52:28] <Tom_itx> pfft
[22:53:02] <zeeshan|2> fluffybitchx: only if you're touching the other end of the socket
[22:53:05] <tjtr33> pcw_home, he's got the motor off on a bench i hear.
[22:53:15] <fluffybitchx> did you do a neutral resistance test? (space heater, measure neutral-ground)
[22:53:18] <Tom_itx> http://tom-itx.no-ip.biz:81/~webpage/toaster_oven/blinktest2.jpg
[22:53:23] <Tom_itx> light bulbs are made for testing!
[22:53:29] <zeeshan|2> lol
[22:54:03] <pcw_home> Hipot is basically doing the same thing (at a higher voltage)
[22:54:12] <zeeshan|2> i think the eaton one
[22:54:13] <zeeshan|2> was at 1000v
[22:56:09] <zeeshan|2> http://en-us.fluke.com/products/insulation-testers/fluke-1507-insulation-resistance-tester.html#overview
[22:56:12] <zeeshan|2> thats what i need!
[22:57:04] <pcw_home> even an old hand cranked 500V megger would do
[22:57:05] <zeeshan|2> megger = high pot?
[22:57:20] <pcw_home> yep
[22:57:24] <zeeshan|2> http://www.kijiji.ca/v-electronics/hamilton/megger-wm6-tester/1048320788?enableSearchNavigationFlag=true
[22:57:34] <zeeshan|2> hand crank one
[22:57:35] <zeeshan|2> :)
[22:58:13] <zeeshan|2> goes upto 500v
[22:58:25] <pcw_home> Ha didnt know they still made hand cranked ones
[22:58:28] <tjtr33> interesting way to add B&C to stock 3 axis mill, its an add on nutating head (knucklehead) http://www.5-axis.com
[22:58:48] <zeeshan|2> tjtr33:
[22:58:49] <zeeshan|2> wow tha tis cool
[22:59:23] <tjtr33> just bolts on, up to you to have a 5 axis control tho
[22:59:29] <zeeshan|2> doesnt look too strong though
[22:59:42] <tjtr33> and uses this tooling HSK which looks good too
[23:00:10] <tjtr33> ? not too strong? really
[23:01:03] <tjtr33> watch the youtubes, esp the how to mount
[23:01:04] <zeeshan|2> it looks like that 5th axis is pivoting
[23:01:09] <zeeshan|2> on like a 1" shaft
[23:01:16] <tjtr33> turns and tilts
[23:02:34] <tjtr33> uh the coupling is like cat40 or so to old spindle, and 2 big worms( you see the ends in front) and big dc motors sticking out back ( you dont see those easily)
[23:10:36] <Tom_itx> pcw_home, how do i access the pwmgen dir signal to put the delay between it and the pin?
[23:11:59] <pcw_home> Hmm not sure that the best way but you can read it at the GPIO pin
[23:12:39] <atom1> but i'd have to read it at the pin and send it back to the pin?
[23:13:03] <pcw_home> Not sure what your are trying to do
[23:13:30] <pcw_home> maybe better is to use the absolute component and use its sign bit
[23:13:31] <atom1> the delay needs to be on the fwd/rev signal from pwmgen to the relay signal
[23:14:46] <atom1> because pwmgen sends the direction from M3 M4 to the dir pin directly
[23:15:04] <atom1> i don't see how to get between it
[23:15:39] <pcw_home> If you dont use the PWM dir output you can use the absolute comp
[23:16:07] <atom1> so remove the dir pin from the bit file
[23:16:10] <pcw_home> so your direction pin to the relay is just GPIO
[23:16:38] <pcw_home> I think you have to because you need to gate it in hal
[23:16:53] <atom1> then where do i get the dir signal from? i don't see a motion.spindle-direction signal
[23:17:40] <atom1> that goes back to using motion.spindle-forward & motion.spindle-reverse
[23:17:49] <pcw_home> abs.N.sign
[23:18:08] <atom1> i'm not following you
[23:19:15] <pcw_home> spindle speed --> abs.0.in --> abs.0.out --> PWM
[23:19:16] <pcw_home> abs.0.sign --> spindle_dir
[23:19:46] <atom1> hmm
[23:20:14] <atom1> then put the delay after abs.0.sign
[23:20:53] <pcw_home> something like that (I'm a long way away if it explodes)
[23:21:10] <atom1> that's why i'm bench testing it
[23:22:04] <pcw_home> is this a SCR speed control?
[23:22:09] <atom1> so abs can determine the direction from the PWM signal from pwmgen?
[23:22:18] <atom1> i think so
[23:22:25] <pcw_home> yes (man 9 abs)
[23:22:33] <atom1> i did
[23:24:25] <pcw_home> not only that is has three different direction outputs!
[23:32:49] <pcw_home> so you need the time delays and oneshots that take multiple thread times
[23:37:02] <pcw_home> You can avoid sending the spindle speed through the abs comp by using motions absolute spindle speed
[23:37:04] <pcw_home> but the abs comp is still useful to get the direction (though motion spindle forward should be as good)
[23:37:11] <RyanS> This essentially an expensive alternative but the same as an impact wrench? http://www.machineryhouse.com.au/M247
[23:37:52] <fluffybitchx> I seem to be tired to the point where I shouldn't be working on things.
[23:38:09] <fluffybitchx> I've fucking LOST the led I was going to hook up.
[23:38:28] <fluffybitchx> I thought I left it on my desk, it's not there. I checked the floor all around it, not there. I checked my workbench, not there. I checked on the floor around it...
[23:38:43] <pcw_home> Kind of looks like a impact wrench in a a can
[23:39:20] <RyanS> Isn't an impact wrench a bit brutal?
[23:39:26] <fluffybitchx> did I pick it up and carry it with me while looking for other parts, and set it down somewhere? I don't remember.
[23:39:29] <atom1> isn't motion.spindle-forward a bit? abs requires a float value input
[23:40:24] <fluffybitchx> that's an off-the-shelf 3/8" drive butterfly impact wrench with a remote actuator for the throttle.
[23:41:08] <pcw_home> just saying whats the difference between forward and sign of the spindle speed
[23:41:55] <pcw_home> not much (it may be the forward is 0 when spindle if off)
[23:42:46] <pcw_home> bbl leepy
[23:43:14] <RyanS> so pull stud holders are the ones that use a pneumatic cylinder rather than a wrench that actually has to unscrew the drawbar ?
[23:47:29] <Crom_> back...
[23:48:40] <fluffybitchx> I fucking give up. I've now looked everywhere I've been since last time I had it. my LED simply doesn't exist anymore.
[23:48:41] <fluffybitchx> bbl, sleep.
[23:49:00] <fluffybitchx> if radioshack is still open, I'll buy a new one tomorrow.
[23:49:06] <XXCoder> it walked away
[23:49:18] <XXCoder> you should have chained it up ;)
[23:53:47] <fluffybitchx> I shouldn't try to be productive while tired, but I spent my more-awake time helping people with their projects instead of working on my own.
[23:55:07] <Cromaglious_> fluffybitchx, hehe true... though my breakout is in the mail and the 3040 I'm using it at the makerspace
[23:56:06] <fluffybitchx> ?
[23:56:32] <Cromaglious_> I don't have anything here to work on until my controller and drivers get here
[23:57:09] * fluffybitchx has no idea what Cromaglious_ is responding to
[23:57:25] <Cromaglious_> <fluffybitchx> I shouldn't try to be productive while tired, but I spent my more-awake time helping people with their projects instead of working on my own.
[23:58:19] * fluffybitchx still doesn't see how the reply is related to that
[23:58:20] <fluffybitchx> bbl, sleep