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[00:49:07] <RyanS> these 3d edge finders are $$$ surely a standard edge finder it's easy enough to deduct the tip radius??
[01:00:36] <renesis> ryans: thats how ive always done it?
[01:00:45] <renesis> and most everyone i know
[01:03:08] <renesis> ryans: you have to watch for using the diameter instead, or forgetting to add the radius
[01:04:04] <renesis> it seems obvious but if youre moving fast its easy to forget, besides that the normal cylindrical ones seem very repeatable and easy to use
[01:04:20] <RyanS> i mean
http://www.ymtltd.co.uk/1065-tschorn-tester-probe.html vs
http://www.rotagriponline.com/index.php?page=shop.product_details&flypage=flypage_images.tpl&product_id=9664&category_id=768&option=com_virtuemart&Itemid=29
[01:05:32] <renesis> shrug, both of those have tip radius to acct for?
[01:05:37] <renesis> i dont think i understand
[01:06:13] <renesis> you mean something with a dial versus something with just a yes/no indication?
[01:08:37] <RyanS> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ttOprazgnNI
[01:09:24] <RyanS> @ 1:57
[01:10:27] <renesis> yeah thats pretty sexy
[01:11:27] <renesis> i dont think a lot of places use those
[01:11:35] <renesis> versus standard electronic and mechanical ones
[01:11:36] <RyanS> why , if you only have to deduct the radius from the traditional edge finder
[01:11:52] <renesis> because its got dials!
[01:12:08] <renesis> could use it do test differences easier
[01:12:13] <renesis> it just seems convenient
[01:12:28] <renesis> because you can do that with a normal edge finder if you pay attention
[01:12:40] <renesis> or get creative with setting origins while probing
[01:12:48] <RyanS> so :) and das ict German
[01:13:06] <renesis> germans make neat things
[01:13:30] <LeelooMinai> A bit overengineered sometimes:)
[01:13:45] <RyanS> nien
[01:14:27] <renesis> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f0od-cp_9dg&t=1m35s
[01:14:38] <LeelooMinai> Neat and all until you need to fix them - like tanks in wwii
[01:14:39] <renesis> prob most shops still doing it like this ^
[01:15:24] <RyanS> This one is pretty good because it can do x, y, z
http://www.tschorn-gmbh.de/index.php?i=42&lg=1
[01:15:31] <renesis> the other ones look way easier to use
[01:16:17] <renesis> http://www.mqs.co.uk/tshorn-001031200-edge-finder-optical-3d-shank-o12mm-voltage-3v-length-111mm-tracer-o10mm.html
[01:16:37] <renesis> thats cheaper that i would have guessed, wonder if all this stuff gone down since i was interested
[01:16:56] <RyanS> but for cnc, touch probe is best because it can be controlled via software?
[01:17:16] <LeelooMinai> Cheaper...
[01:17:21] <LeelooMinai> That's cheaper:)
http://www.aliexpress.com/item/Singapore-Hongkong-Post-Free-Shipping-Precision-Electronic-Edge-Finder-With-LED-And-Beep-CNC-Milling/2038015554.html
[01:17:37] <renesis> yeah but thats probably shit
[01:18:07] <LeelooMinai> Not everything from China is "shit". Sometimes you get good value for the money.
[01:18:22] <renesis> sure and sometimes you get fucked
[01:18:48] <renesis> for what people pay the CM for work, theyre almost asking to get fucked
[01:19:13] <RyanS> how about a knockoff 3d tester?
[01:19:48] <renesis> you can try it, itll probably work, doubt it would be as accurate or reliable as a german thing
[01:19:57] <renesis> i dont totally trust made in the USA anymore, either
[01:20:31] <renesis> weve sold off too much of our capability, too much skilled labor has retired, and the corners that need to be cut to compete with china gotta be huge
[01:22:05] <renesis> small companies with low overhead can compete, but companies like that can change in a flash, just takes a person or two to move on
[01:24:04] <renesis> ryans: honestly if youre aiming for like .002" and not .0001", any of those options will work for you
[01:24:56] <RyanS> this is pathetic
http://www.machineryhouse.com.au/M694# $560 in the UK
[01:25:15] <renesis> lots of shit imported tools are rugged as fuck, lots of sexy advanced domestic and euro shit is fragile
[01:26:23] <renesis> yeah but if it works to spec, youre using it to make money, then having a local supplier can be a huge benefit
[01:26:38] <LeelooMinai> Hmm all those edge finders seem to have 20mm shank... I could not even put it into ER11 collet...
[01:26:52] <renesis> try and get a hong kong or chinese manufacturer on the phone, driving to your place, replacing stuff that may not even be defective just to make you feel whole
[01:27:46] <renesis> leeloominai: what do you use?
[01:28:09] <renesis> i have an ER16 and that thing can be tough to shop for, 3/8" max
[01:28:11] <LeelooMinai> Nothing yet - just thinking how I will find edges then:)
[01:28:32] <RyanS> yeah business doesn't care about +/- $200
[01:28:33] <renesis> i bet you can get a mechanical one, how big a shank can you hold?
[01:28:52] <LeelooMinai> ER11 is maximum 7mm I think - pretty tiny
[01:29:54] <renesis> wow enco doesnt have 1/4" shank
[01:30:05] <renesis> 3/8" is the smallest
[01:30:18] <RyanS> How is this going to be at all accurate?
http://www.vinland.com/touch-probe.html
[01:30:40] <LeelooMinai> I wonder if there are some "adapters" that could convert ER11 to something bigger
[01:33:38] <renesis> http://littlemachineshop.com/products/product_view.php?ProductID=1961&category=1261091193
[01:33:43] <renesis> there you go
[01:34:44] <LeelooMinai> They exist then
[01:34:57] <renesis> yeah but not very much
[01:35:38] <renesis> weird we live in a time when difficult to find means you had to search like 5 websites and it took 10 minutes
[01:35:53] <Crom_> I'm looking making a knockoff of the www.vinland.com/touch-probe.html
[01:39:01] <Crom_> using PVC pipe for the body and a piece of delrin cutting board for the top, bottom, and probe holder, with the shaft I'll use a piece of 1/8" drill blank and weld a blob on the end then use my lathe to shape it.
[01:39:06] <renesis> thats looks cool
[01:39:40] <Crom_> I'm thinking it could be made at a under $25 price point Chinese price
[01:41:00] <renesis> would be sweet if you could figure out how to rigidly hold the assembly together to make the point with it together
[01:41:25] <renesis> like, against the balls when you grind the tip so its totally concentric
[01:41:42] <renesis> i guess if you just used really, really low force
[01:42:30] <archivist> you lose any accuracy by using spastic for the housing
[01:42:48] <Crom_> 3ea 3mm screws around the outside between the sense legs. The shaft would be held in plave by friction and the spring pushing up and the delrin probe holder would be wide at the top with the spring upside down from the way he had it.
[01:43:23] <renesis> archivist: prob hold a few mils even with the pvc
[01:43:28] <renesis> if you dont crash it
[01:43:32] <renesis> or leave it out in the sun
[01:43:36] <renesis> or let it get too cold
[01:43:51] <Crom_> assemble it without the probe hole and drill it in the lathe so the hole could be concentric to the shaft at the top
[01:43:55] <archivist> or let the humidity change
[01:44:10] <renesis> or get random cutting fluids and collants on it
[01:44:24] <renesis> i would trust delrin, tho
[01:44:27] <zeeshan|2> i figured out why there was no sparks
[01:44:31] <zeeshan|2> i blew up the power supplies too for the drives
[01:44:34] <zeeshan|2> :P
[01:44:43] <zeeshan|2> found some nice toasty voltage regulators
[01:45:00] <zeeshan|2> im starting to think the person i bought the drives from
[01:45:05] <renesis> yeah see that makes sense
[01:45:11] <zeeshan|2> sold me some faulty ones
[01:45:25] <Crom_> only looking for .2mm accuracy
[01:45:46] <renesis> might work for awhile
[01:45:56] <renesis> you cant cut aluminum?
[01:46:27] <renesis> almost can cut delrin, and youre going to do a lot better with delrin than with pcv tubes
[01:46:49] <renesis> or even just get a polycarbonate tube
[01:47:06] <renesis> thatll look like hot sex
[01:47:36] <renesis> definitely motivation to get some nice solder joints on the bearings
[01:47:54] <Crom_> My jaws on my lathe down't go small enough for 1/8" 5/16 is the smallest I can go, though I could use a hunk of al and a grub screw to hold the 1/8 shaft and clock it in.
[01:48:41] <renesis> why can you start with like 1" aluminum bar stock or something
[01:48:45] <zeeshan|2> do you have a small drill chuck?
[01:48:46] <Crom_> poly rod is like $100 for a 3"x12" long hunk
[01:48:55] <zeeshan|2> you can hold that in your 3 jaw
[01:49:00] <renesis> and bore a hole and then cut a shank on the side closer to the chuck
[01:49:13] <Crom_> hmmm I have an old makita chuck...
[01:49:25] <Crom_> I only have a 4 jaw
[01:49:26] <renesis> zeeshan|2: haha thats so ghetto
[01:49:33] <zeeshan|2> renesis: lol yea
[01:49:36] <zeeshan|2> works in a pinch though
[01:49:41] <renesis> i couldnt really do it on my mill because the chuck ate so much z
[01:49:48] <zeeshan|2> is your 4 jaw scroll
[01:49:51] <zeeshan|2> or regular 4 jaw
[01:49:52] <renesis> yeah its pretty neat for manual mills
[01:49:54] <Crom_> reg
[01:50:02] <zeeshan|2> okay you might think this is ghetto
[01:50:05] <zeeshan|2> but i've done it like this too
[01:50:09] <renesis> why cant you hold it in your 4 jaw?
[01:50:11] <Crom_> 1945 Sheldon 10"x44" leather drive
[01:50:13] <zeeshan|2> you wrap a shit load of aluminum foil
[01:50:17] <renesis> ive done it, and its ghetto
[01:50:18] <zeeshan|2> around your work piece
[01:50:21] <zeeshan|2> and then hold it
[01:50:21] <zeeshan|2> lol
[01:50:25] <renesis> nothing necessarily wrong with ghetto
[01:50:57] <renesis> are you talking about cutting the tip? or the body
[01:51:04] <Crom_> I'll take a bit of al rob, drill a 1/8" hole and put in a grub screw to hold it
[01:51:13] <Crom_> s/rob/rod
[01:51:32] <renesis> why cant you just take down a 1" rod to make your part
[01:51:48] <renesis> kind of wasteful but its not like its a huge part
[01:52:00] <Crom_> body is a no brainer, top and bottom can be prepped on the lathe and finished on the 3040
[01:52:41] <renesis> youre going to do threaded rod for the probe like in the page?
[01:53:00] <Crom_> I want the ball bearings out at 20mm from center
[01:53:04] <zeeshan|2> https://www.schuetz-licht.de/static/_processed_/csm_tensile_specimens_hot_deforming_6190c94d1a.png
[01:53:08] <zeeshan|2> i gotta cut a crap load of these
[01:53:09] <zeeshan|2> using a mill
[01:53:14] <zeeshan|2> im wondering what the easiest way is
[01:53:19] <zeeshan|2> i was thinking of stacking a shit load of them
[01:53:23] <zeeshan|2> clamping it from the long edges
[01:53:31] <zeeshan|2> machining the sides, then moving the clamps and finishing em off
[01:53:54] <zeeshan|2> stacking a shitload of sheets that is
[01:54:14] <Crom_> what's the dimensions?
[01:54:24] <renesis> and what do you have to machine
[01:54:31] <zeeshan|2> a sheet
[01:54:34] <renesis> profiles?
[01:54:36] <zeeshan|2> that i've sheard
[01:54:40] <zeeshan|2> sheared to a rectangle
[01:54:41] <renesis> oh you need to make those, not machine those
[01:55:05] <renesis> i thought you had those and needed to finish them
[01:55:17] <zeeshan|2> nahh
[01:55:20] <zeeshan|2> gotta make the shape
[01:55:31] <renesis> yeah how this
[01:55:32] <zeeshan|2> theres gotta be an easier way to what im doing
[01:55:34] <renesis> thick
[01:55:43] <zeeshan|2> .040
[01:55:50] <renesis> how many sheets
[01:55:53] <Crom_> hmmm after shearing you'll have to deburr all the edges
[01:55:55] <zeeshan|2> like need to make 100
[01:56:06] <renesis> how bad is scrapping a couple sheets?
[01:56:12] <zeeshan|2> not bad at all
[01:56:16] <zeeshan|2> tons of material available
[01:56:17] <Crom_> time to rig a plasma cutter?
[01:56:20] <renesis> i mean you could try stacking
[01:56:29] <zeeshan|2> Crom_: my only 2 options are waterjet and milling
[01:56:31] <renesis> i would just maching the profiles in a single cut maybe?
[01:56:38] <zeeshan|2> can't use anything that makes too much eat
[01:56:40] <zeeshan|2> *heat
[01:56:41] <renesis> like, arrange them so you dont have to profile each
[01:57:01] <Crom_> for those I'd prefer water jet...
[01:57:10] <zeeshan|2> me too
[01:57:15] <zeeshan|2> but it might end up being too much money
[01:57:17] <renesis> yeah totally if you got it but thats cheating
[01:57:19] <renesis> he said mill
[01:57:55] <zeeshan|2> imagine 2 clamps holding down like 40 sheets
[01:57:56] <Crom_> hmmm cnc mill right?
[01:58:09] <zeeshan|2> im thinking of doing the curved sections first
[01:58:10] <renesis> stacking sheets doesnt save you time unless you want to go full depth
[01:58:14] <zeeshan|2> then moving clamps to the milled corners
[01:58:17] <zeeshan|2> and finishing em off
[01:58:23] <zeeshan|2> renesis: yea i wanna go full depth
[01:58:28] <zeeshan|2> it saves me time in setup
[01:58:28] <renesis> in which case maybe you should like bolt the sheets together or something
[01:58:41] <renesis> yeah then you need to clamp the shit out of it
[01:59:00] <renesis> do you have a lot of edge?
[01:59:03] <witnit> what are the dimensions x/y?
[01:59:07] <renesis> or this is like, 1 part per sheet
[01:59:29] <renesis> are you cutting arrays or one of each sheet
[01:59:38] <renesis> with not a lot of edge to hold
[02:00:21] <zeeshan|2> 4" long
[02:00:29] <renesis> oh shit tiny
[02:00:31] <zeeshan|2> .25 " wide at the neck
[02:00:40] <Crom_> I'd make a jig... to stack them 5 high, clamp the ends, rough both sides, finish sides, then move that stack to new jig to hold the centers and finish the ends and the 1/4" at either end.
[02:00:41] <zeeshan|2> .375" wide at the pads
[02:00:52] <renesis> yeah what crom said
[02:01:02] <renesis> you need to locate the middle sheets
[02:01:07] <renesis> i wouldnt trust clamping top and bottom
[02:01:30] <renesis> if this is something you want to do by like, tomorrow, i would just start the coffee now
[02:01:40] <Crom_> make the jig clamp one side to wards the other at both ends
[02:01:43] <zeeshan|2> you dont trust clamping
[02:01:45] <zeeshan|2> check this shit out
[02:01:45] <zeeshan|2> lol
[02:01:46] <zeeshan|2> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oOtG5DruMQA
[02:01:49] <zeeshan|2> thats how i made discs
[02:01:54] <zeeshan|2> just with friction
[02:02:11] <renesis> yeah but thats huge, you have pussy little .04 sheets
[02:02:18] <zeeshan|2> thats not huge
[02:02:23] <zeeshan|2> they were also .040 sheets
[02:02:24] <zeeshan|2> ss
[02:02:34] <zeeshan|2> started as squares
[02:02:42] <Crom_> ntycnc on youtube just had a good video on slotting
[02:02:44] <renesis> i like croms idea
[02:02:50] <Crom_> nyccnc
[02:04:17] <Crom_> which ss? hopefully not something gallie like 316l
[02:04:52] <zeeshan|2> 304
[02:05:18] <witnit> zeeshan
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Jewelry-Thurston-HSS-2-x-0-023-x-1-2-Slitting-Slotting-Saw-Blades-/281521181535?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item418bf8535f
[02:05:29] <Crom_> haven't messed with that one
[02:05:59] <witnit> slow but functional, see his store for something that suits you better
[02:06:11] <renesis> zeeshan|2: clamp one side of the stack, clamp from side to side on that same side
[02:06:24] <renesis> machine the unclamped side, swap
[02:06:56] <archivist> slitting saw is wrong for the profile to cut
[02:06:57] <renesis> least something to keep the middle shit from rotation
[02:07:00] <witnit> personally i would just put them between two pieces of hardwood and clamp
[02:07:31] <renesis> thats gonna be a tall stack to cut
[02:07:34] <zeeshan|2> man making tensile test samples out of round bar is so much easier
[02:07:43] <zeeshan|2> turn and polish on lathe
[02:07:44] <zeeshan|2> done
[02:07:49] <zeeshan|2> none of this non sense
[02:08:00] <archivist> make metal clamp to hold 10/20 and mill the side in batches
[02:08:11] <renesis> how big is your stock?
[02:08:12] <witnit> :)
[02:08:19] <zeeshan|2> .24" oversize
[02:08:22] <zeeshan|2> .25
[02:08:49] <renesis> so yeah one per sheet
[02:08:51] <renesis> sucks
[02:09:52] <witnit> well, then turn out the profile on a lathe, cut the bar down the middle, place in your sheet metal part and then hold in chuck, and start turning
[02:10:15] <renesis> haha wtf
[02:10:26] <renesis> thats creative yo
[02:10:27] <witnit> perfect debur too
[02:10:40] <witnit> <3 screw machine setup guy
[02:10:52] <witnit> gotta do things funny ways
[02:10:58] <renesis> i guess so
[02:11:02] <Crom_> If I had soft jaws, I'm make a step on the jaw locate the bottom and a stop at one side... and tall enough to mill out the contour of the side, so drop in a piece mill the entire end and profile, flip and repeat with a thin .25 parallel under it.
[02:12:11] <Crom_> s/entire end/entire side/
[02:12:51] <Crom_> keeping the same end at the stop
[02:13:26] <Crom_> or have 2 vise with softjaws in each
[02:15:36] <Crom_> My grandad would have make a set of shearing hard jaws and do it all in the vise
[02:16:07] <Crom_> gotta love a guy with a bridgeport in the living room
[02:18:28] <Crom_> I just ordered 5 tb6560 drivers boards and a 4 axis breakout from ebay... less that $45
[02:19:16] <witnit> ^ save that seller
[02:19:23] <Crom_> 1 driver board is going to the local maker space
http://creatorspace.us for thier 3040
[02:19:56] <witnit> you are donating?
[02:21:25] <Crom_> http://www.ebay.com/itm/251728061990 http://www.ebay.com/itm/281541495759
[02:21:43] <Crom_> less that $7 for the driver board
[02:22:15] <witnit> wow, some very affordable teaching tools
[02:22:47] <zeeshan|2> http://i.imgur.com/2fDUQmX.png
[02:22:52] <zeeshan|2> this is what i was thinking about btw
[02:22:55] <zeeshan|2> mill comes from sides
[02:22:59] <zeeshan|2> does side profile
[02:23:07] <zeeshan|2> then i move clamps to finish off the areas where the clamps are currently now
[02:24:25] <Crom_> yep, I was thinking a jig to one side to like up against, or 2 90 block -- 1 at each end.
[02:24:33] <Crom_> s/like/line
[02:26:15] <Crom_> heck clamp a 1-2-3 block at each end.. .125" in
[02:26:21] <zeeshan|2> hehe
[02:26:23] <zeeshan|2> that'd work too
[02:27:10] <Crom_> 10 high you'd be around 0.40 to 0.45 tall
[02:28:57] <Crom_> big enough rougher could have 1.000" cutting hight, stack them 20 tall.. You'd have to put a block at the end the mill was cutting towards to keep them from moving as well...
[02:33:23] <Deejay> moin
[02:40:08] <witnit> mojn!
[02:40:36] <Deejay> mojn witnit :)
[03:00:17] <Crom_> sheesh
[03:03:16] <Crom_> hmm
[03:12:32] <Crom_> hmmm thinking about which printer I will take apart next for stepper motors...
[03:23:48] <RyanS> What's the point of wavy parallels?
[03:24:17] <Jymmm> the hold dip better
[03:24:21] <literally_h1tler> harder to knock over
[03:24:51] <literally_h1tler> and store easier than 3/4 and 1" thick parallels
[03:25:14] <Crom_> that's the biggy...
[03:26:47] <RyanS> I don't necessarily need metric ones do i? im in oz so metric
[03:27:05] <literally_h1tler> you don't even need them in SAE/english
[03:27:18] <literally_h1tler> all parallels do is jack the work up in a vise
[03:27:28] <RyanS> They can be completely arbitrary?
[03:27:30] <literally_h1tler> as long as you've got a few different sizes
[03:27:33] <literally_h1tler> that's all that matters
[03:27:33] <RyanS> hmm
[03:28:41] <Crom_> there is uses for certain sizes... for spacing up work after roughing for finish passes running the same program as the roughing pass, etc...
[03:29:21] <RyanS> eh im not going cnc....yet
[03:29:44] <Crom_> not nessarely for cnc
[03:29:45] <literally_h1tler> even there just jack the work offset down .010 and call it a day
[03:30:12] <renesis> if you cant think of a reason why you need exact height parallels, you dont need them
[03:30:50] <Crom_> true...
[03:30:51] <renesis> i think its because most of the time you want a set and you need to like, call them something
[03:31:10] <renesis> i think the ones i use are like 1/8" spaced
[03:31:15] <literally_h1tler> tbh we just ground a bunch of mild steel
[03:31:30] <RyanS> just dont jack the work off
[03:31:35] <Crom_> surface grinders or soo nice!
[03:31:58] <literally_h1tler> so there were a bunch of matched pairs of big ass parallels
[03:32:25] <RyanS> mill steel instead of grind?
[03:32:27] <renesis> and then
[03:32:49] <renesis> ryans: ground mild steel
[03:32:51] <literally_h1tler> just fuckin' grab a pair that looked good and call it a day?
[03:32:56] <literally_h1tler> that's what I do
[03:33:04] <literally_h1tler> also, soft jaws
[03:33:11] <literally_h1tler> way, way more parallel than parallels
[03:33:20] <renesis> rly?
[03:33:27] <literally_h1tler> yes
[03:33:43] <RyanS> plastic parallels haha
[03:33:52] <renesis> for plastic mills
[03:34:01] <renesis> i bet those exist in 20 years
[03:34:02] <literally_h1tler> given the choice between parallels and soft jaws, i take soft jaws every time
[03:34:04] <Crom_> soft jaws are the bomb!
[03:34:06] <renesis> composite body mills
[03:34:11] <literally_h1tler> little bit of an undercut on the side faces
[03:34:21] <literally_h1tler> can cut a hard stop into them
[03:34:24] <RyanS> Just carve em out of cheese
[03:34:39] <renesis> gotta be a hard cheese like parmesan
[03:34:50] <renesis> cheddar wont cut it
[03:34:52] <literally_h1tler> plus you can gang vises together and know they're as parallel/flat as the machine is
[03:34:52] <RyanS> but not brie; too soft
[03:35:08] <renesis> brie is what you use to grease your ways
[03:35:12] <literally_h1tler> I cut shit 18" - 24" long to .0002" in flatness
[03:35:34] <RyanS> That's pretty flat shit
[03:35:44] <renesis> ya
[03:35:46] <literally_h1tler> indeed
[03:35:51] <RyanS> Do you eat lots of fibre?
[03:37:07] <Crom_> well I spent all my fun money, now I have to wait a couple months before I can start looking for a scroll 3 jaw chuck for my Sheldon 10"
[03:37:40] <Crom_> at least a Grizzly G0602 backplate will fit on my lathe without to much work
[03:38:51] <RyanS> I have discovered the solution to manufacture cheese parallels
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l2uyWS8A8ng
[03:41:27] <RyanS> nononono
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0pPwohkqluU
[03:42:07] <RyanS> Very precise ^
[03:43:40] <Crom_> syringe extruder.. very kool
[03:45:27] <Crom_> now to make a extruder that will take icing and print a cake... Would need a tool changer and a 4th and 6th axis, 6th wouldn't hurt either
[03:45:41] <Crom_> 4th and 5th
[03:46:58] <RyanS> cake cutting machine!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=do6VhxqCWEQ
[03:57:10] <anarchos2> I've got an old slab of granite just a little bigger than the base of my mini mill, do you think mounting the mill to the granite would make any difference, vibration wise?
[03:59:19] <RyanS> crom your request > 76 axis icing machine
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=47EmIP5ETI4
[03:59:19] <renesis> i did the opposite and dont seem to have issues
[04:00:02] <renesis> anarchos2: so my reasoning is that if the mill is allowed to move with any impulsive forces, the column and z assembly are less likely to flex
[04:00:42] <renesis> i have my mini mill feet mounted to rubber cork sandwich mounting pads
[04:01:46] <renesis> its bolted through a table with 1" rubber/cork damper above and below the table between the nuts and washers and the mill feet
[04:02:00] <anarchos2> i was thinking something simular
[04:02:07] <renesis> so basically, if you grab the table or column and shake it, the whole machine shakes
[04:02:20] <renesis> it doesnt flex the column or jam the table into the gibs
[04:02:35] <anarchos2> but with granite in the middle...machine->granite->rubber pad->table->some sort of rubber washer->nut
[04:02:47] <renesis> itsa an 80 lbs machine, its rigid as fuck for an 80 lb machine, but its still just a little guy
[04:03:03] <RyanS> then cheese
[04:03:10] <renesis> yeah i think mass couldnt hurt
[04:03:18] <renesis> eheheh parmesan dampers
[04:03:39] <renesis> tho maybe something like an asiago, get a little more deflection
[04:03:49] <RyanS> and a sponge cake
[04:04:05] <renesis> you put sponge cake at the end of the screws
[04:04:20] <RyanS> no!
[04:04:26] <Crom_> too much hand work still
[04:04:28] <renesis> itd diffuse so it has no one resonant frequency and will damp even across the common vibration spectrum of a mini mill
[04:04:30] <RyanS> bad
[04:04:38] <renesis> tru.
[04:05:02] <Crom_> if the column is hollow fill it with concrete
[04:05:27] <Crom_> but coat the sides with truck bed paint first
[04:07:17] <RyanS> How are you going to deal with the sinosoidal depleneration ?
[04:07:30] <Crom_> then turn it over fill any holes with mylar tape, add some holes thru any webbing, stick brazing rod through the holes and fill with fiber reeinforced concrete
[04:07:40] <renesis> anarchos2: by never have issues, i mean that with very little exception, my steppers lock up the same across all the axis, at a max speed and not at random lower speeds in certain spots in each axis
[04:08:14] <renesis> the small exceptions being while messing with the gib and lead screw nuts, everything totally loose
[04:08:56] <anarchos2> what kind of machine do you have?
[04:09:13] <renesis> like you can grab the ends of the table and shake and hear the play as much as you can feel it, and even then it only binds at the ends, i dont think ive ever had resonant issues
[04:09:20] <renesis> taig 2019cr
[04:09:45] <renesis> itll do 60IPM without fucking up, i rapid at like 45IPM during normal use
[04:10:01] <anarchos2> that's pretty good
[04:10:04] <renesis> and the only time it locks is when im being an idiot with my depth of cut
[04:10:24] <anarchos2> i can only do like 45 IPM before my motors start loosing steps and doing weird stuff
[04:10:25] <renesis> i back off DOC or feed and its usually fine after
[04:10:26] <anarchos2> pulsing
[04:10:46] <renesis> yeah mine dont do stuff like they just get stuck
[04:10:55] <Crom_> hehe good thing I adjusted the spindle so it hit the table when it crash in the down Z
[04:11:02] <renesis> so maybe damping mounts would help
[04:11:17] <Crom_> wouldn't hit
[04:11:18] <renesis> you can maybe try adding some nuts to the end of the screw to see if that changes behavior
[04:11:50] <RyanS> I was reading the BF30 CNC kit uses 8 Nm/1100oz-in steppers , but someone on CNC zone, said that way overkill by a factor of about 6
[04:11:52] <renesis> table on my mill has a 1/4" dimple from the first day i was setting up the mill
[04:12:36] <renesis> wowowow @ 1000oz/in minimill
[04:12:41] <RyanS> I've seen knee mills with 1200oz
[04:12:55] <renesis> yeah but those things are a lot biger
[04:13:18] <renesis> i dont even remember what mine are anymore
[04:13:45] <RyanS> 8nm
http://www.optimum-machines.com/products/cnc-pc-controls-complete-and-adapter-kit/complete-and-add-on-bf-30/index.html
[04:14:18] <Crom_> at the creatorspace we are going to hack on the 3040 so the main gantry leans back so we can get the spindle to within 1cm of the end of the table.
[04:14:38] <renesis> the z says 270 ozin
[04:15:13] <renesis> i remember the x and y being close to 2000, i cant read the labels to look up the datasheets the way theyre mounted
[04:15:46] <RyanS> huh? 11.2nm is 1586oz
[04:16:05] <Crom_> and raise it to with the spindle all the way down in it's clamp, with the longest bit, it'll still miss the table.
[04:16:07] <RyanS> oh your mill
[04:16:49] <Crom_> sheeshz... I'm playing with a 56oz motor here... It's from a printer I torn apart.. and the 3040 uses 127oz motors
[04:18:36] <renesis> http://www.cncitalia.it/upload_ele/PacSciDS.pdf
[04:18:50] <renesis> according to page 39 mine are way custom
[04:21:20] <renesis> mines not listed in the specs tables, its just tagged S for special
[04:21:48] <renesis> so somewhere between 100 and 200 ozin
[04:22:04] <anarchos2> hmmm
[04:22:04] <RyanS> ok knee mill kits use
http://www.flashcutcnc.com/motor/nema-42-2830-oz-stepper-motor so 1200 for bf30 is probably close
[04:24:07] <anarchos2> i have 480ozin motors IIRC
[04:24:10] <anarchos2> on an X2 :P
[04:24:13] <anarchos2> a little over kill
[04:24:38] <Crom_> makes it easier to bust end mills though
[04:26:05] <RyanS> So with CNC less RPM = lower feed = smaller steppers ?
[04:26:32] <renesis> in cnc you always want highest feed
[04:26:53] <renesis> you need torque to cut but you want speed to rapid quickly and reduce cycle time
[04:27:33] <Crom_> this last week has seen the money fly out the door... $2350 on a 5800W DP-7100 diesel generator around $700 on steampunk/sewing/Corset supplies for 4 events we are going to boothy at...
[04:27:48] <RyanS> yeah but for diy you don't have 20,000 rpm
[04:27:57] <renesis> i have 10k
[04:28:13] <Crom_> I have 8K 200w dc spindle
[04:28:16] <renesis> and im pretty sure you can get 20k dremel tools
[04:28:25] <Crom_> ER11
[04:28:29] <renesis> ER16
[04:28:43] <renesis> so 3/8" max
[04:29:08] <RyanS> yeah, I am getting a BF30, 3000rpm , so that determines how fast you can feed?
[04:29:14] <RyanS> max
[04:29:35] <renesis> maybe, in a lot of cases you wont want to spin that fast
[04:29:52] <renesis> so you figure out what speed the metal wants to be cut at
[04:29:53] <Crom_> My Sheldon is a ASME 4.5 tape in the head stock and I want to get a ER40 collet adapter for it. And get a straight shank ER20 collet holder to go in the ER40 for the smaller size collects
[04:30:00] <renesis> that and your tool ciameter determin speed
[04:30:12] <renesis> then you determine the chipload that makes your tool and work happy
[04:30:17] <renesis> that determines feed
[04:30:18] <anarchos2> hmmm
[04:30:26] <Crom_> ER11 7mm or a tad over 1/4"
[04:30:38] <renesis> then you figure out how deep you can cut before tool or machine rigidity cant hang
[04:30:44] <renesis> that determines your depth of cut
[04:30:56] <renesis> add wetness for greater pleasure
[04:31:20] <Crom_> and cooling... or Chip clearance
[04:31:21] <renesis> if possible avoid machining one area for extended periods to reduce the temperature of the work as its cut
[04:33:08] <renesis> if you run max spindle all the time, youre going to make a ton of uneccessary cuts, and the work might turn out okay but your tool life will be shit
[04:33:15] <renesis> and cleanup will prob be worse because dust
[04:35:40] <renesis> like, your goal is to minimize heat and the number of cuts, so you start with figuring out how fast to spin based on accepted cutting speeds for the material youre cutting
[04:36:21] <RyanS> I am aware of that. But what I saying is if you cut stainless at say 800rpm , 16mm cutter, you can't feed as fast as 3000RPM, 6mm cutter, aluminium?
[04:36:41] <renesis> maybe
[04:37:03] <renesis> like when you start using smaller tools you want to fly
[04:37:32] <renesis> you dont get much speed at little diameters, so you want the higher spindle speeds
[04:37:45] <renesis> thats why a lot of smaller diy mills will have 10k and 20k spindles
[04:37:48] <RyanS> So if the machine spindle can't spin faster than 3000RPM . I don't need steppers capable of sustaining really high feeds
[04:38:01] <renesis> you dont need it, but youre going to want it
[04:38:06] <anarchos2> hmm, think it's possible my tilting column X2 is trammed to within .0005"-.001" by eye?? i must be measuring wrong, lol
[04:38:08] <renesis> also, its a headroom thing
[04:38:18] <renesis> my shit will fuck up once in a blue moon at 45 ipm
[04:38:26] <renesis> it doesnt at 30 ipm
[04:38:39] <renesis> and i maintain that by making sure itll run consistently at 60 ipm
[04:39:03] <anarchos2> i measured the table about 8 inches apart using my dial indicator, and it seems dead nuts...
[04:39:08] <renesis> anarchos2: ive gotten really, really close by eye
[04:39:34] <renesis> like, tested after months and shit didnt need tweaking for regular work
[04:40:23] <RyanS> ok but is 1500oz total overkill for
http://www.optimum-machines.com/products/cnc-pc-controls-complete-and-adapter-kit/complete-and-add-on-bf-30/index.html . It seems to be
[04:40:34] <renesis> it wasnt dead on buy yeah with test dial indicator was like ~.001 over at least 6", maybe more
[04:40:40] <renesis> i only have 12" of x
[04:42:13] <Crom_> tilt is easy to set.. it's nodding that's a pain of X2's
[04:43:43] <Crom_> I've seen several methods of adding bracing to the column to stop tilt over at CNCzone
[04:45:47] <anarchos2> i must be doing something wrong, because if i sweet my table, it's 0.004" off over 7 inches, give or take...
[04:46:06] <anarchos2> but if i just swing the indicator around without moving the table, it's dead on..
[04:46:33] <anarchos2> http://imgur.com/bZ6xk5x
[04:47:03] <RyanS> dead nuts..
[04:49:56] <Crom_> measure from the bench to your table and check it over it's travel
[05:00:06] <renesis> crom_: yeah on my taig you gotta shim the headstock assembly to adjust that
[05:00:47] <renesis> traming around Y axis is easy because its made to tilt like 60 degrees
[05:01:38] <renesis> anarchos2: table is maybe worn uneven
[05:02:15] <renesis> i try to do my work on diff parts of the table but im not to good about that
[05:03:08] <Crom_> anyone near Temecula CA? I need a real mill to finish a lower
[05:06:05] <anarchos2> renesis, i'm thinking that
[05:06:06] <anarchos2> hmm
[05:07:05] <anarchos2> because i have it set dead nuts with the indicator while swinging it around in the spindle, but about 0.008" off left to right....so basically i have trammed to compensate for the table, i suppose?
[05:07:14] <anarchos2> only thing i can think of why one would be off and the other not.
[05:07:39] <renesis> one axis?
[05:07:43] <anarchos2> yeah
[05:07:44] <anarchos2> X
[05:08:01] <RyanS> anti-backlash nut on a ballscrew.... odd
[05:08:01] <renesis> i think mostly thats how people orient parts
[05:08:22] <renesis> X is the long dimension of your work, so theres going to be more movement
[05:08:34] <renesis> thats certainly not going to be tru on every machine tho
[05:09:07] <anarchos2> yeah
[05:09:23] <Crom_> heh Yep long way is Y on a 3040 X is across the gantry
[05:09:38] <renesis> X is traditionally the long axis
[05:09:56] <renesis> but that doesnt means thats how your parts are oriented
[05:10:04] <anarchos2> it seems to be spot on on the Y axis
[05:10:13] <renesis> like, you could have arrays of mostly Y parts, and most of the movements would be on the Y
[05:10:25] <renesis> long movements on X would just be from one part to another
[05:10:35] <renesis> but in general i think it makes sense the X would wear more
[05:10:48] <anarchos2> so what do i do? should i just "ignore it" and tram my vise to compensate for it?
[05:11:05] <renesis> or split the diff
[05:11:17] <renesis> or try and find the area thats its best and work there
[05:11:21] <anarchos2> like get a .002" shim (or whatever it works out to be with the width of my vice only being about 5")
[05:11:30] <renesis> or try and find the area that its worse and see if you can even it out
[05:11:33] <renesis> iunno
[05:12:22] <anarchos2> renesis, i kinda mapped it a bit with sharpie, and it seems to be fairly consistent...maybe my saddle is tilted or something
[05:13:04] <anarchos2> it seems to work out to 1.5-2 inches of X travel equals .001" tilt
[05:13:10] <renesis> does it have brass gibs or similar?
[05:13:18] <renesis> that are easy to get at?
[05:13:39] <anarchos2> steel ones IIRC
[05:14:16] <renesis> yeah dunno how much you can really mess with those
[05:14:32] <renesis> maybe do like 1/8 turn and back and see if anything changes
[05:14:51] <Crom_> heh tram the column to the corrected angle then flycut the table level
[05:14:57] <renesis> then you know they have an effect on it, but i think theyre usually made so that the table is resting on the ground bed
[05:15:19] <renesis> crom_: cheese spoilboards
[05:16:03] <renesis> get some romano with reverse tslots, slide it in, cut it flat
[05:16:06] <renesis> man im hungry
[05:16:10] <Crom_> get a surface plate and turn the bed upside down and check the dovetail and gibs
[05:16:30] <renesis> that will tell you for sure
[05:16:48] <Crom_> s/get/borrow/steal/
[05:16:59] <Crom_> s/get/borrow\/steal/
[05:17:02] <anarchos2> i wonder how much it'd cost to get my saddle, table and vise ground.
[05:17:27] <renesis> find a starving machinist
[05:17:31] <Crom_> it's case iron... it'll machine
[05:17:43] <Crom_> then start scrapping
[05:17:55] <renesis> my shits aluminum, heh
[05:18:09] <RyanS> bloody Americans; a 'gunsmithing lathe' :p
[05:18:36] <Crom_> rightO Ducky!
[05:19:45] <renesis> like, Z is aluminum on steel i think, Y is aluminum on steel, X is aluminum on anodized aluminum
[05:20:01] <renesis> brass gibs all three
[05:21:35] <renesis> leadscrew nuts are brass with a slice so you can tighten them onto the oddly fine pitch screws
[05:21:35] <Crom_> my lathe is cast iron to cast iron to cast iron to cast iron and cast iron gibs, though the headstock has babit bearings
[05:21:49] <renesis> like, one screw to clamp and two screw to lock with opposite force
[05:22:09] <renesis> its not the lowest maintenance but it cant not work
[05:22:50] <renesis> crom_: rawr
[05:23:26] <renesis> mine is built onto 3" cast iron square tubes
[05:23:36] <renesis> with little angle iron feet
[05:23:48] <renesis> i think thats its secret
[05:23:59] <Crom_> and the bearings really need repouring... until then 120 weight gear oil...
[05:24:23] <renesis> sticky icky icky
[05:25:11] <renesis> but yeah i love how i can raise the Z, move Y forward, loosen the column nut and just lay the column down
[05:25:22] <renesis> shit breaks down flat in seconds
[05:25:43] <Crom_> My lathe is over 400 lbs
[05:25:44] <renesis> throw it in the hatchback, cnc on the road in 2 minutes
[05:25:52] <Crom_> it stays where it's at
[05:26:11] <renesis> the advantage of an 80 lb machine
[05:27:34] <RyanS> Somewhat likes creating work for themselves
https://ctmprojectsblog.files.wordpress.com/2014/10/clamp-kit-in-solidworks.jpg
[05:28:05] <renesis> that would be a neat school project
[05:28:14] <renesis> i wouldnt be surprised if mcmaster hosted that
[05:28:35] <renesis> that have sw models of pretty close to all their hardware
[05:29:53] <renesis> like, after gaving to model screw threads and heads all day, making the varrying case and step blocks is prob lots of fun
[05:30:06] <Crom_> heh I hate drawing bolts and hooks and bunches of other things... I snag alot off the sketch up library
[05:30:50] <renesis> mcmaster models and theres some dassault site with a ton of models
[05:34:11] <Crom_> I fsckn hate adobe indesign which my boss make me use
[05:35:03] <Crom_> I much rather use corel draw, gimp, emachineshop, and sketchup
[05:36:13] <RyanS> eww corel draw
[05:37:30] <Crom_> it does a decent job of taking a jpg/png/bmp/pdf bitimage and turing it into a vector technical drawing
[05:37:39] <Crom_> turning
[05:37:52] <Crom_> time for a new keyboard...
[05:39:09] <Crom_> nicfit time again
[05:42:58] <anarchos2> hmmm
[05:43:07] <anarchos2> i think i might try to go full metric from now on
[05:44:31] <RyanS> imperial sucks
[05:46:03] <Crom_> well the 3024 is running 20320 steps per inch... 2 start 4mm pitch ball screws
[05:46:16] <Crom_> 1/16 micro step
[05:46:35] <Crom_> I lifted M2 instead of M1 on the TB6560's
[05:47:36] <Crom_> so i get to take the board out again solder m2 back down and lift m1 for 1/2 step
[05:47:42] <anarchos2> can i have linuxcnc use mm but still have my .ini in imperial?
[05:48:00] <anarchos2> my ballscrews are imperial...
[05:48:45] <Crom_> you just have to figure steps per mm
[05:48:59] <Crom_> steps per inch / 25.4
[05:57:01] <Crom_> for me it's 800 steps per mm right now 0.000049" per step or .00125mm step
[05:57:01] <RyanS> idiots
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mL0uOLhWeq8
[05:58:26] <Crom_> that's what forklifts are for
[05:59:19] <Crom_> or 3ea 4x4's rigged for a lift
[06:00:20] <Crom_> boss has forklift and 16' 4x6's and a bunch of winchs and chain hoists and 2 bobcats, we can lift anything!
[06:06:16] <RyanS> haha
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8vCxNLoGdRA
[06:07:22] <Crom_> I need to bring home my drill press and radial arm saw... but before I can do that.. I need to get rid of stuff in the garage... HP4500 COlor laser, hp8500 color laser, 3 or 4 racks, toilet, ...
[06:07:24] <Crom_> oops
[06:10:59] <Crom_> bike shipping box
[06:12:13] <anonimasu> hmm..
[06:12:27] <anonimasu> anyone knows how to assign a parameter from a python userspace component
[06:12:42] <anonimasu> (I cant get the bldc.x.drive-offset to go in the right place
[06:12:47] <anonimasu> err encoder-offset
[06:13:42] <anonimasu> toastyde1th: hey
[06:13:58] <anonimasu> toastyde1th: got any clue how to set a parameter from a a python userspace component
[06:14:03] <anonimasu> (link it in hal)
[06:14:03] <micges> anonimasu: os.system("halcmd setp param_name value")
[06:14:13] <anonimasu> no other way?
[06:14:23] <micges> nothing better comes to my mind
[06:15:08] <micges> maybe python hal module has some usable functions for that
[06:21:50] <Crom_> eeesh 4am off to bed
[06:26:06] <jthornton> well crap I have file sharing on the wheezy computer in the shop but not this one and I can't remember what I did
[06:27:45] <RyanS> sexy
http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/Toolroom-Lathe-Smart-Brown-Model-1024-/131419062960?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_15&hash=item1e992fc2b0
[06:29:44] <witnit_> buy it ryans
[06:29:55] <witnit_> jthornton what kind of file sharing?
[06:30:06] <RyanS> That's the starting $
[06:31:07] <witnit_> anyone want to test this for me? it reads your bitfile and exports to openoffice to make a label (must have a mesa card attached)
[06:31:10] <witnit_> http://what.duckdns.org/readhdmiout.zip
[06:33:03] <witnit_> err libreoffice
[06:35:35] <Crom_> it can't do 11.5 TPI or standard 1/2, 3/4, 1" npt
[06:36:24] <witnit_> "<Crom_> eeesh 4am off to bed" j/s
[06:37:34] <Crom_> well I just found sketchup 8 installer! it'll install on XP
[06:37:42] <witnit_> =D
[06:37:51] <witnit_> you vbox?
[06:38:05] <jthornton> just using the file managers
[06:38:33] <Crom_> wife and stepdaughter only abuse winbloz
[06:38:34] <witnit_> jthornton sudo apt-get install gigolo
[06:42:20] <jthornton> witnit, interesting
[06:45:41] <Crom_> got the linuxboxen on a step stool next to the tv computer, which this boxen formally was. Setting up the new to me computer and setting this up as well... Only to find out ubuntu14.04 won't run EMC2 at the moment
[06:49:47] <witnit_> jthornton this one is nice as well, I use them hand in hand sudo apt-get install remmina
[06:57:09] <witnit_> jthornton, do a cp /home/jthornton/.remmina/* /some other computer your use alot /home/otherusername/.remmina/*
[06:57:16] <witnit_> that should save you some clicking
[07:00:15] <witnit_> are you running a sim or rt?
[07:00:25] <witnit_> crom_ ^^
[07:00:33] <jthornton> debian wheezy
[07:00:37] <jthornton> rt
[07:01:01] <anonimasu> haha
[07:01:03] <anonimasu> the plasma s
[07:01:05] <anonimasu> works.
[07:01:23] <anonimasu> 21m/min :D
[07:01:36] <witnit_> you got a plasma running linuxcnc?
[07:02:13] <jthornton> yes
[07:02:15] <anonimasu> yep
[07:03:11] <anonimasu> let me show off.
[07:03:12] <anonimasu> :D
[07:03:50] <witnit_> please do, which control do you have for it?
[07:03:59] <anonimasu> emc
[07:04:03] <anonimasu> oh the unit?
[07:04:06] <witnit_> yeh
[07:04:11] <anonimasu> hypertherm hd 3070
[07:04:19] <jthornton> control?
[07:04:23] <anonimasu> for height=
[07:04:25] <witnit_> which cards are driving your amps
[07:04:30] <anonimasu> 8i20
[07:04:31] <anonimasu> 's
[07:04:39] <jthornton> 7i76
[07:04:52] <anonimasu> and some servos with abs encoders..
[07:05:34] <_methods> yeah pics for sure
[07:05:40] <_methods> plasma is my next build
[07:06:03] <anonimasu> hehe
[07:06:06] <anonimasu> no pics, video
[07:06:12] <witnit_> yisssssss
[07:06:18] <witnit_> post it post it
[07:07:53] <witnit_> jthornton, were you saying interesting to gigolo or that zip file i posted?
[07:08:39] <jthornton> gigolo but it doens't solve my problem
[07:09:16] <anonimasu> one second
[07:09:19] <jthornton> I can't open a directory on this computer from my windows computer, but I can open one on the wheezy computer in the shop from my windows computer
[07:09:35] <anonimasu> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pu_f1PKa0WE
[07:12:20] <witnit_> what is the computer you are on now?
[07:14:19] <anonimasu> a 3ghz
[07:14:24] <anonimasu> p4 celeron
[07:14:41] <anonimasu> with a gig of ram
[07:14:53] <anonimasu> and a mesa 5i20(I think it was)
[07:14:55] <anonimasu> bbl..
[07:15:00] <anonimasu> gotta actually work
[07:18:15] <witnit_> jthornton you could compare these files listed here between your two linux shares
[07:18:17] <witnit_> http://askubuntu.com/questions/537097/diagnosing-samba
[07:18:44] <_methods> ah nice messer retrofit
[07:31:37] <_methods> anonimasu: did you reuse the existing servos and amps?
[08:58:12] <mozmck> pcw_home, PCW: changing the step type to 0 gives me motion in both directions.
[08:59:34] <pcw_home> Sorry about that, changed for somebody and forgot it was set for a weird mode
[09:00:39] <mozmck> no problem, thanks for the pointer.
[09:01:10] <mozmck> Now another question, how do I invert the direction output (and step I guess).
[09:02:03] <mozmck> The docs say to use dmesg to find which pin is the output for a stepgen, but dmesg has nothing in it about the 7i92 that I can see.
[09:02:30] <pcw_home> theres a token that needs to be set on the GPIO pin that the step/dir outputs are on
[09:02:31] <pcw_home> invert_output Ithink
[09:03:16] <pcw_home> its in the hostmot2 manual in the GPIO section
[09:04:08] <mozmck> I see that. I guess I just use the pinout I already know and halshow tells me the hal pin names...
[09:06:22] <mozmck> so I guess I would use the HAL pin *.gpio.0xx.out ?
[09:07:11] <mozmck> I guess the pin number is the I/O number in the mesaflash --readhmid output?
[09:08:25] <pcw_home> no you set the blah.blah.blah.gpio.xxx.invert_output parameter true
[09:09:16] <mozmck> ah, a parameter - that's why it's not showing in the hm_7i92 pins in halshow
[09:09:48] <pcw_home> the hal pin for invert and opendrain arguably should have been exposed as a stepgen (or whatever module) parameter
[09:10:18] <mozmck> I was going to suggest that :)
[09:10:21] <pcw_home> but its about 8 years to late to change unless its an option
[09:10:24] <JT-Shop> how do you run a python from M100?
[09:10:51] <JT-Shop> do they all start with #!/bin/bash
[09:11:20] <mozmck> #!/bin/python I think?
[09:11:24] <pcw_home> probably with a path to python
[09:11:48] <pcw_home> use which python to find the path
[09:11:59] <JT-Shop> I have this #! /usr/bin/env python
[09:12:16] <JT-Shop> it runs from the command line with ./M110
[09:12:45] <furrywolf> today is another good day to not go outside. too bad I have to go to work. bleh.
[09:12:48] <pcw_home> I get
[09:12:50] <pcw_home> /usr/bin/python
[09:12:58] <pcw_home> on ubuntu 14.04
[09:13:17] <mozmck> same here, and I have #!/usr/bin/python in at least one python file I looked at.
[09:14:26] <JT-Shop> let me try that
[09:15:14] * furrywolf would hope python isn't in /bin, as that would suggest it's needed to boot, which is just eww.
[09:16:09] <furrywolf> or, at least, needed for basic system functionality.
[09:17:59] <JT-Shop> here are the two files I'm trying to run #! /usr/bin/python
[09:18:00] <JT-Shop> fo = open('status.html', 'w')
[09:18:00] <JT-Shop> info = '''
[09:18:00] <JT-Shop> <HTML>
[09:18:00] <JT-Shop> <HEAD>
[09:18:00] <JT-Shop> <meta http-equiv="refresh" content="60"> <!-- Refresh every 1 minute -->
[09:18:02] <JT-Shop> <TITLE>Change Part</TITLE>
[09:18:06] <JT-Shop> </HEAD>
[09:18:08] <JT-Shop> <BODY>
[09:18:10] <JT-Shop> <p>Change Part!</p>
[09:18:12] <JT-Shop> </BODY>
[09:18:14] <JT-Shop> </HTML>
[09:18:15] <furrywolf> pastebin!
[09:18:16] <JT-Shop> '''
[09:18:18] <JT-Shop> fo.write(info)
[09:18:20] <JT-Shop> fo.close
[09:18:22] <JT-Shop> sorry
[09:18:24] <JT-Shop> http://pastebin.com/Rp5sdk4S
[09:18:38] <JT-Shop> yea, forgot to Ctrl C after selecting the url
[09:24:12] <JT-Shop> now my stupid windows says access to file denied
[09:24:43] <mozmck> dump windows
[09:25:18] <JT-Shop> can't, SW won't run on linux
[09:25:32] <furrywolf> hrmm, you'd think it would be WINEable.
[09:25:42] <JT-Shop> lol
[09:26:06] <furrywolf> the only program I have that really won't work in wine is flashcut, because it seems to want direct serial port twiddling or something.
[09:26:06] <mozmck> I keep a copy of XP on a VirtualBox VM that I can fire up when I need to - which is almost only ever for work.
[09:26:26] <mozmck> So I even run windows on linux
[09:26:27] <JT-Shop> if you don't have a quad core fire breathing monster with a huge video card you will sit forever
[09:26:31] <pcw_home> I hate that with windows (and its broken print queue that unfixable when bollixed up except by a reboot)
[09:26:47] <mozmck> I have an 8 core w 20 gigs of ram :)
[09:27:02] <JT-Shop> that's what I need lol
[09:27:05] <furrywolf> I have a 2ghz core 2 duo! I finally upgraded from my old 1.3ghz celeron.
[09:27:20] <JT-Shop> so anyone have the time to try the two M100 files?
[09:27:40] <pcw_home> furrywolf: e8500s are about $15.00 on Ebay
[09:27:45] <mozmck> I build my own, and use AMD, so my total cost was about $500
[09:28:15] <JT-Shop> yea, I build mine too
[09:28:57] <furrywolf> pcw: I need a laptop.
[09:38:44] <furrywolf> yay, fun weather. high wind warning, flood watch, wind advisory, gale warning, hazardous seas warning, urban flood advisory,... and they're saying they'll need to issue more warnings after they have a better grasp on the forecast.
[09:39:28] * furrywolf gets to go and work in it! yay!
[09:44:47] <furrywolf> nothing more fun than being outside when it's raining sideways, right?
[09:45:05] * JT-Shop wonders if a quit() is needed
[09:46:50] <JT-Shop> nope
[09:56:34] <_methods> JT-Shop: you built a plasma table right?
[10:02:51] <JT-Shop> aye
[10:03:29] <furrywolf> bbl
[10:06:08] <_methods> you have a build log of your plasma?
[10:06:45] <JT-Shop> just this
http://gnipsel.com/shop/machine-shop.xhtml and a few videos on putube
[10:06:53] <anonimasu> _methods: no
[10:07:31] <_methods> yeah that's the perfect size
[10:07:35] <anonimasu> anyone got a idea how to set the coordinate system from theabs encoders
[10:07:38] <_methods> thtw' what i want to build for the house
[10:07:46] <anonimasu> _methods: no :)
[10:07:56] <_methods> anonimasu: k
[10:08:05] <anonimasu> im just stuck on that part, where to get coordinates(World) from
[10:08:19] <_methods> we have a komatsu at work that will probably be needing a retrofit soon
[10:08:36] <_methods> the elex in it are getting pretty sketchy
[10:09:13] <JT-Shop> _methods, do you need anything else before I take off?
[10:09:36] <_methods> nah i was just wondering about your build
[10:09:42] <_methods> i'll harass ya later hehe
[10:09:55] <JT-Shop> lol
[10:24:21] <witnit_> pcw_home after you mentioned it, I made this earlier, maybe you can modify it to suit your needs.
http://what.duckdns.org/readhdmiout.zip
[10:25:54] <witnit_> exports directly to openoffice in my case directly to a label template
[10:26:07] <witnit_> off to the shop, seeya all
[10:29:39] <anonimasu> anyone have a clue?
[10:30:03] <anonimasu> pcw_home: got a idea?
[10:32:03] <pcw_home> Not off hand
[10:32:12] <anonimasu> make a _offset_ comp?
[10:32:36] <anonimasu> to offset the encoder and pid signals
[10:40:38] <pcw_home> probably something like that
[11:24:03] <anonimasu> what a pita.
[11:24:04] <anonimasu> :D
[11:28:33] <pcw_home> well I dont think absolute encoders were even considered with linucnc homing
[11:28:35] <pcw_home> and you have an odd setup with a mix of reset-able incremental and an absolute reference
[11:30:13] <zeeshan|2> pcw_home: do you guys make a module that i can use that can take 4-20mA current or 0-5VDC or 0-10VDC output
[11:30:26] <zeeshan|2> for current sensing purposes
[11:30:42] <zeeshan|2> and then throw the output of that into an input of the 7i77
[11:30:54] <pcw_home> So I expect you need to feed linuxcnc the absolute encoder number (which probably requires you to zero the quadrature at the same time you apply the offset)
[11:31:19] <pcw_home> you could add a 7I87 (+-10V analog input)
[11:32:47] <pcw_home> or if low resolution is OK connect to a 7I77 digital input 0,1,2 or 3
[11:33:01] <zeeshan|2> would this work with a strain gauge too?
[11:33:09] <zeeshan|2> that works on a 10v excitation
[11:33:51] <pcw_home> strain gauges need a bridge amp
[11:34:08] <pcw_home> (they only output millivolts)
[11:34:13] <zeeshan|2> http://www.ebay.com/itm/0-5V-0-10V-4-20mA-Load-Cell-sensor-Amplifier-Transmitter-strain-gauge-transducer-/291236689062
[11:34:16] <zeeshan|2> so something like this
[11:34:22] <zeeshan|2> and then the output of this would go to the 7i87
[11:34:44] <zeeshan|2> interesting it has the same output ranges as the current transducers
[11:36:17] <zeeshan|2> http://www.lem.com/docs/products/at_b10_e.pdf
[11:36:23] <zeeshan|2> looks like this outputs 0-10V
[11:36:27] <zeeshan|2> proportional to 0 to 100A
[11:36:33] <zeeshan|2> (depending on the model)
[11:37:02] <zeeshan|2> what kind of resolution can i get if i directly put that into the di 0 , 1, 2, 3 inputs
[11:37:21] <zeeshan|2> +/- 0.1A?
[11:37:21] <zeeshan|2> :)
[11:37:55] <pcw_home> if you want .1A you would need the 7I87
[11:38:04] <pcw_home> (12 bits)
[11:38:48] <zeeshan|2> i would use the serial interface for the 7i77 to connect to 7i87?
[11:38:56] <zeeshan|2> (2 wires)
[11:39:33] <zeeshan|2> hm
[11:39:39] <zeeshan|2> looks like it uses an ethernet cable
[11:41:21] <zeeshan|2> your 7i87 board is only 99 bux
[11:41:26] <zeeshan|2> thats pretty sweet for a daq.
[11:47:22] <Jymmm> 99¢
[11:48:07] <Jymmm> Dollar Store CNC =)
[11:48:43] <Jymmm> Hmmm, I wonder if that's even possible
[11:50:35] <Jymmm> "All components must be $1 or less (excluding tax), including structural, electrical, electronic, mechanical. Only exception being a uC/CPU"
[11:51:30] <roycroft> i don't know about your part of the world, but hardly anything at the dollar stores around here costs a dollar or less
[11:51:33] <Rab> Excluding the CPU is underachieving!
[11:51:39] <roycroft> they should call them five dollar stores
[11:52:03] <Rab> Jymmm, all new parts, or can you buy at thrift stores?
[11:52:17] <Jymmm> Rab: No, becsue they all must be nre/retail parts, no scavaging/dumpster diving/flea markte/ yard sale stuff
[11:52:27] <Jymmm> new*
[11:54:51] <Jymmm> Rab: But there are no limits on the $1 retail items.
[11:55:19] <pcw_home> The 7I87 connects to the serial expansion port on the 7I77
[11:56:21] <Rab> There's a chain here called Dollartree that actually sells $1 items. They probably have HDPE cutting boards.
[11:56:56] <zeeshan|2> okay i think i see what youre doing
[11:56:58] <Rab> Crappy skateboard bearings probably under $1/ea.
[11:57:04] <zeeshan|2> you take a regular ethernet cable
[11:57:07] <zeeshan|2> and chop one end off
[11:57:12] <zeeshan|2> and wire it to the tb6 7i77 connector
[11:57:14] <zeeshan|2> and the other plugs in
[11:57:21] <zeeshan|2> to 7i87
[11:57:28] <pcw_home> yep
[11:57:35] <zeeshan|2> shielded?
[11:57:36] <jdh> why not just crmp one rj45 on
[11:57:49] <zeeshan|2> (is 7i87's connector metallic?)
[11:57:53] <zeeshan|2> jdh easier to chop
[11:57:55] <pcw_home> no
[11:58:08] <zeeshan|2> ok regular cable then
[11:58:17] <zeeshan|2> its twisted pair and differential signals so i gues shielded doesnt matter too much
[11:58:38] <pcw_home> not much, good to 100M or so
[11:58:47] <Jymmm> Rab: DollarTree, 99¢ Store, Dollar General, etc
[11:58:54] <zeeshan|2> Rab: did you hear
[11:58:56] <zeeshan|2> i blew 3 drives
[11:59:01] <zeeshan|2> reason unknown still :P
[11:59:29] <archivist> what is in common
[11:59:45] <zeeshan|2> blew up caps
[11:59:52] <archivist> one power supply or 3
[12:00:00] <zeeshan|2> oh pwoer supply blow up with my fault
[12:00:10] <zeeshan|2> i plugged it in knowing well there was a short inside the thing it was powering
[12:00:15] <zeeshan|2> and it blew up the voltage regulator on the supply
[12:00:15] <archivist> could be the other way round
[12:00:25] <zeeshan|2> because without the load connected
[12:00:29] <zeeshan|2> i was measuring 170vdc
[12:00:42] <zeeshan|2> after i connected the shorted drive
[12:00:54] <zeeshan|2> and remeasured output with the load disconnected
[12:00:55] <zeeshan|2> 0 v
[12:00:57] <zeeshan|2> :)
[12:01:10] <zeeshan|2> i was hoping i'd see where the smoke was coming from
[12:01:18] <zeeshan|2> but nothing was too obvious on the servo drive
[12:01:44] <archivist> that is not a sensible fault finding method
[12:01:51] <zeeshan|2> well i was frustrated last night
[12:02:04] <zeeshan|2> i've talked to all you guys in here who are well versed in electronics than me
[12:02:08] <zeeshan|2> and the drive manufacturer
[12:02:12] <zeeshan|2> and done everything suggested
[12:02:19] <zeeshan|2> three times over
[12:02:33] <zeeshan|2> so i decided to resort to brutal checks :)
[12:02:46] <zeeshan|2> <- shady mechanic techniques
[12:02:48] <mozmck> sledge hammer
[12:02:54] <Rab> zeeshan|2, you blew up a third drive? In the Z position?
[12:02:55] <zeeshan|2> dude
[12:03:00] <zeeshan|2> rab yea
[12:03:08] <Rab> zeeshan|2, sorry to hear that.
[12:03:13] <zeeshan|2> mozmck: dude i even had a plastic bag over the circuit
[12:03:15] <zeeshan|2> when i powered it
[12:03:21] <zeeshan|2> i was thinkign i could see where it melts :-)
[12:03:25] <zeeshan|2> didn't work out
[12:03:43] <zeeshan|2> Rab: np! :P
[12:04:08] <Rab> zeeshan|2, using my powers of deduction, I conclude that the drives were not at fault.
[12:04:13] <zeeshan|2> there is a high possibility the person who sold me the drives knew 3 were bad
[12:04:20] <zeeshan|2> the only thing i haven't tried
[12:04:23] <zeeshan|2> is move the X drive to Z
[12:04:25] <zeeshan|2> and see what happens
[12:04:30] <mozmck> what kind of drives?
[12:04:33] <zeeshan|2> 4 drives in a row? :-)
[12:04:36] <zeeshan|2> amc be25a20ac
[12:04:49] <archivist> one drive killing the psu then that killing others is possible
[12:04:57] <mozmck> Do they get hot before dying?
[12:05:05] <Rab> zeeshan|2, you know that'll kill your X drive. Something else is going on.
[12:05:08] <zeeshan|2> not that i notice
[12:05:19] <zeeshan|2> so what should i do?
[12:05:21] <zeeshan|2> just replace the motor
[12:05:29] <zeeshan|2> cause that's the only thing that can be causing it
[12:05:37] <zeeshan|2> i tried doing the light bulb test on the motor
[12:05:55] <zeeshan|2> and also turning it slowly and measuring ohms at different locations to find an intermittent short
[12:06:01] <zeeshan|2> and really nothing was shown
[12:06:15] <mozmck> Does it run for a while or blow up as soon as you power it up?
[12:06:21] <zeeshan|2> it runs for a while
[12:06:23] <zeeshan|2> then i disable it
[12:06:26] <zeeshan|2> and power cycle it
[12:06:30] <zeeshan|2> and it blows up asap i turn it on
[12:06:33] <zeeshan|2> a cap shoots sparks
[12:06:57] <mozmck> That's odd. Cap shooting sparks sounds like over-voltage?
[12:07:08] <pcw_home> It might be that theres something about too large a motor that causes this (the drive is about 1/4 as big as it needs to be for Z)
[12:07:21] <zeeshan|2> pcw_home: even in non running state?
[12:07:37] <Rab> zeeshan|2, seems like you were spending a lot of time trying to figure out the brake before this happened. That may be the root cause...shorting to ground when brake engaged, or disengaged, or something.
[12:07:58] <zeeshan|2> hmm
[12:08:36] <zeeshan|2> amc wants me to buy a new drive
[12:08:36] <zeeshan|2> lol
[12:08:40] <zeeshan|2> and try
[12:08:51] <pcw_home> Or motor wiring or bad brushes or incorrect primary wiring (the separate switching is suspect to me)
[12:09:31] <zeeshan|2> primary wiring only thing is diff is it gets power from l2
[12:09:43] <zeeshan|2> what switching are you talking about?
[12:09:54] <zeeshan|2> the fact that l1 -> x ,y l2-> z go through the same contactor?
[12:10:11] <zeeshan|2> and maybe the voltage is jumping over the contacts?
[12:10:25] <pcw_home> I would power all from a common source
[12:10:53] <zeeshan|2> so either put all x y z on l2
[12:10:56] <zeeshan|2> or keep em on l1
[12:11:27] <pcw_home> I would
[12:11:46] <Rab> So what's controlling the drives? And is it powered from L1, or L2?
[12:11:58] <zeeshan|2> rab whatcha mean
[12:12:09] <zeeshan|2> https://www.dropbox.com/s/pz1o87ru9cyhgwm/IO.PDF?dl=0
[12:12:21] <zeeshan|2> i would appreciate a sanity check over my brake wiring
[12:12:25] <Rab> Just tell me, don't make me load your massive PDF again.
[12:12:33] <zeeshan|2> this is the small one :)
[12:13:36] <zeeshan|2> L1 ->15A fuse -> contactor 3 pole , #1 pole -> x drive ;;; L1 ->15A fuse -> contactor 3 pole , #2 pole -> y drive ;;; L2 ->15A fuse -> contactor 3 pole , #3 pole -> z drive
[12:13:59] <zeeshan|2> it is a 600V contactor
[12:14:12] <zeeshan|2> so its suprising there is an arc jump
[12:15:01] <zeeshan|2> pcw_home: it is easier for me to move the Z drive
[12:15:04] <zeeshan|2> to a seperate contactor
[12:15:07] <pcw_home> I dont trust that arrangement I would wire all to the same line an use one contact for all
[12:15:09] <zeeshan|2> that is only seeing l2
[12:15:29] <pcw_home> Bad news use only one supply for all
[12:15:35] <zeeshan|2> ok
[12:15:57] <Rab> pcw_home, I assume 7I77 outputs are isolated?
[12:16:03] * JT-Shop gives up trying to get a python script to run in a M100 and goes for a bicycle ride in the woods
[12:16:50] <zeeshan|2> question
[12:16:56] <zeeshan|2> could bad contacts on a contactor do this ?
[12:17:09] <zeeshan|2> like if 2 of the contacts are closer before the 3rd contact
[12:17:13] <zeeshan|2> due to uneven wear
[12:17:38] <pcw_home> No they are not isolated (the digital outputs are, the analog outputs are not)
[12:19:12] <Rab> Hmm, the BE25A20 does have optoisolated inputs.
[12:19:30] <pcw_home> It has to, its line operated
[12:20:12] <zeeshan|2> unrelated comment:
[12:20:19] <zeeshan|2> the other day i noticed my 15 ft vga cable
[12:20:26] <zeeshan|2> causes scan lines to show up on my monitor!
[12:21:38] <mozmck> put your cell phone next to it and it might get more interesting!
[12:21:42] <zeeshan|2> lol
[12:22:13] <zeeshan|2> i shoulda used a dvi cable
[12:38:59] <renesis> zeeshan|2: yes
[12:39:10] <renesis> thats why they exist
[12:39:34] <renesis> cheap on moniprice get a long one
[12:44:27] <zeeshan|2> amc called me
[12:44:41] <zeeshan|2> she's saying she'll get it revirewed by the people who know the circuits really well
[12:44:51] <zeeshan|2> but she can think of 2 possibilities that can cause failures like this
[12:45:14] <zeeshan|2> 1. somehow reversing l1 and neutral intermittently
[12:45:31] <zeeshan|2> 2. not looking at the fault output
[12:45:40] <zeeshan|2> so basically the faulting is self resetting
[12:45:52] <zeeshan|2> and i need to tie that into my controller somehow
[12:46:15] <jdh> how does one reverse l1 and neutral
[12:46:19] <zeeshan|2> no idea
[12:46:27] <zeeshan|2> i gotta taker a closer look
[12:46:55] <Crom_> hmmmm looking at a photo interrupter from a floppy drive wondering what kind of digitizing probe I could make with it
[12:46:58] <Crom_> really small one
[12:48:34] <jdh> use three like a renishaw clone instead of breaking contact
[12:52:03] <Crom_> now I have to find 2 more HP floppies by citizen
[13:04:57] <ssi> I got a little spartan6 dev board in the mail today finally
[13:05:08] <ssi> I think I can use this to prototype the next commutation converter before I spin it
[13:15:20] <Crom_> why a FPGA board?
[13:28:52] <jdh> you can buy the interrupters for almost free
[13:30:16] <Crom_> trying to think of a digitizer design using interrupters
[13:33:30] <Crom_> hmm having a bar sit in the bottom of the U so soon as it moves into the beam it detects...
[13:54:12] <Tom_itx> PCW you around?
[13:56:02] <pcw_home> yeah
[13:57:13] <Tom_itx> i was looking at a 7i47S bitfile
[13:57:44] <Tom_itx> can the aux and pwmenable be used as GPIO or other functions or do they need to be kept for the PWMGEN?
[13:57:55] <Tom_itx> all i really need is pwm and direction
[13:59:18] <Tom_itx> if not i still think i can get by; i'm not using the 4th axis stepgen yet
[13:59:18] <pcw_home> aux is just GPIO, pwmena is connected to the analog circuitry so the analog out is forced to 0 if PWMENA is off
[13:59:31] <Tom_itx> so that one needs to stay
[13:59:35] <pcw_home> dir can be GPIO also
[13:59:50] <Tom_itx> yeah, i'll need that one
[14:00:37] <Tom_itx> do i need a RMA or something if i swap with you?
[14:01:28] <Tom_itx> and i'll need to make up the cost difference...
[14:01:28] <pcw_home> well the boss will probably require it
[14:01:32] <Tom_itx> heh
[14:01:59] <pcw_home> let me look in the junk box I may have one
[14:02:50] <Tom_itx> i think this may be a better way to go than to try fighting the cnc4pc board
[14:04:41] <Tom_itx> i'll fiddle with it a bit this afternoon and see where i get but i'm not putting alot of hope in it
[14:08:06] <Tom_itx> the 7i47S shows out of stock anyway
[14:09:06] <pcw_home> a SPINX1 will work though
[14:09:17] <Tom_itx> what's that?
[14:09:54] <pcw_home> little standalone PWM --> isolated POT board
[14:10:03] <Tom_itx> hmm
[14:10:10] <Tom_itx> yeah that would be ok
[14:10:24] <pcw_home> basically the analog part of a 7I47S
[14:10:28] <Tom_itx> yeah
[14:10:43] <pcw_home> (well but has FOR and REV outputs)
[14:11:45] <Tom_itx> that shouldn't matter
[14:13:17] <Tom_itx> 5v output on those?
[14:13:50] <pcw_home> uncommitted OPTO outputs
[14:14:19] <Tom_itx> so i could use 24 if i wanted?
[14:14:37] <pcw_home> 50 mA 100V max
[14:14:58] <Tom_itx> enough to drive a relay
[14:15:21] <pcw_home> They will drive a little relay (with flyback protection)
[14:15:39] <Tom_itx> yeah
[14:16:48] <jdh> I have a cnc4pc c41. works well but sewms overky complex
[14:17:39] <Tom_itx> yeah connor has the 41 too
[14:18:05] <Tom_itx> jdh, what pwm input are you using?
[14:18:13] <Tom_itx> parport or mesa pwm?
[14:18:20] <jdh> 7i43?
[14:18:30] <Tom_itx> with stepgen or pwmgen?
[14:18:37] <jdh> pwm
[14:18:58] <Tom_itx> you mind if i look at that part of your config?
[14:19:20] <jdh> cant get to it from here
[14:19:35] <Tom_itx> ok
[14:19:49] <Tom_itx> the pwm seems a bit touchy on the C6 board
[14:20:20] <jdh> send it back
[14:20:32] <Tom_itx> it was free :)
[14:20:49] <jdh> not worth it
[14:20:49] <Tom_itx> i figured i'd give it a go and see
[14:20:52] <Tom_itx> heh
[14:35:31] <Crom_> really good story
http://storiesonline.net/s/76454
[14:37:48] <andypugh> “Caution†makes me think it doesn’t have a lot to do with CNC
[14:39:29] <Crom_> none in the slightest
[14:39:45] <JT-Shop> andypugh, nevermind about my suggestion on the mailing list seems you can't execute a python script in a M100 or at least I can't
[14:40:04] <andypugh> You should be able to
[14:40:07] <cradek> sure you can
[14:40:26] <Crom_> dies comes back in another body, dies comes back in yet another body, dies comes back in his original body back in the timeline, dies comes back in yet another body, ...
[14:40:35] <andypugh> I think your scripts might be malformed, the #! needs to point at python and nothing else
[14:40:42] <cradek> if M100 is executable it doesn't matter what kind of executable thing it is
[14:40:46] <JT-Shop> the M100 files will run when I try them in a terminal but nothing happens when I try MDI or in a G code file
[14:41:07] <cradek> nothing at all?
[14:41:55] <JT-Shop> nope, not even an error message when I run LinuxCNC from terminal
[14:42:02] <andypugh> I feel slightly soiled, I am currently working in a slicer in Autodesk Inventor VBA, to slice models without the faceting of the STL phase)
[14:42:24] <jdh> for your reprap?
[14:42:40] <andypugh> For someone else’s DLP printer
[14:42:44] <Crom_> hmm stupid question, you try it as M101?
[14:43:09] <JT-Shop> http://pastebin.com/Rp5sdk4S
[14:43:15] <jdh> that's better anyway
[14:43:20] <JT-Shop> M110, M111, M112
[14:43:33] <cradek> M110 isn't part of the file is it?
[14:43:39] <JT-Shop> no
[14:43:49] <cradek> try #!/usr/bin/python (no space)
[14:43:56] <JT-Shop> ok
[14:44:17] <Crom_> just what I noticed also lose the ' '
[14:44:29] <cradek> these are in your nc_files directory?
[14:44:53] <andypugh> Perhaps they need to be in SUBROUTINE_PATH?
[14:45:16] <JT-Shop> yes, in my nc_files directory
[14:45:18] <cradek> if they're not found I'd expect an error like "M100 not defined"
[14:45:27] <Crom_> The specified User Defined Command does not exist
[14:45:44] <andypugh> Though much as I appreciate the effort, the little X-forwarded halmeter watching motion.program-line is working well, it goes to 0 on pause.
[14:45:44] <Crom_> I'd think it's the space
[14:46:08] <JT-Shop> if I try a bogus name I get unknown m code used
[14:46:35] <cradek> I see you're writing to the current working directory
[14:46:40] <cradek> where do you look for the status.html file?
[14:47:01] <cradek> I bet it's not where you expect
[14:47:05] <JT-Shop> nc_files, it shows up if I run M110 from a terminal
[14:47:11] <cradek> heh
[14:47:14] <cradek> yeah it's not where you expect
[14:47:26] <cradek> it's probably in your config directory
[14:48:02] <cradek> cwd can be whatever
[14:48:20] <JT-Shop> cradek, you win the prize it is in the config directory
[14:48:28] <cradek> yay what do I win?
[14:48:43] <andypugh> if you add a “print ‘I finished’†at the end of the M110 do you see that in the terminal?
[14:48:45] <JT-Shop> anything you want that I can send via email
[14:49:19] <JT-Shop> andypugh, the file ended up in the config directory
[14:49:28] <andypugh> Yeah, I saw :-)
[14:51:28] <JT-Shop> ok, works as expected. thanks for helping cradek
[14:51:46] <JT-Shop> now I can monitor my lathe from my desk
[14:51:50] <cradek> welcome!
[14:52:03] <Crom_> kudos man
[14:52:31] <JT-Shop> andypugh, because the html refreshes often you see the change in the source from the remote without aksing
[14:52:34] <JT-Shop> asking
[14:53:19] <JT-Shop> now to make a new burner holder the last one came out wrong :(
[14:53:57] <andypugh> JT-Shop: I might try it then, though the halmeter is possibly easier as it sits in the corner of the screen out of the way.
[14:54:01] <Crom_> JT-Shop, holder for the plasma touch?
[14:54:19] <andypugh> Keith Fenner has a neat magnetic one
[14:54:34] <andypugh> Seems like a decent idea.
[14:54:51] <Crom_> andy you beat me to it.. it's not magnetic, it's held by sprint loaded pins
[14:54:58] <Crom_> spring
[14:55:10] <andypugh> Ah. Well, magnets would be better ;-)
[14:55:21] <andypugh> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l9hBQafpr9M
[14:55:30] <Crom_> he takes bolts drills them out to put in a spring and a bolt
[14:56:14] <Crom_> the pins are better for repeatability
[14:56:25] <Crom_> he actually sells them
[14:56:48] <andypugh> Yeah, I know. He suscribes to my YouTube feed ;-)
[14:57:00] <Crom_> Turn Wright machine works
[14:57:07] <Crom_> what's your channel?
[14:57:14] <JT-Shop> Crom_, burner for my melting furnace
[14:57:55] <JT-Shop> andypugh, the browser window can be rather small, you just need to change the title
[14:58:13] <Crom_> ahhh I haven't made one yet... I have a propane bottle already cuy to make one though..
[14:58:17] <Crom_> cut
[14:59:14] <JT-Shop> the burner is dead simple and really puts out some heat with a nice neutral flame
[14:59:16] <JT-Shop> http://gnipsel.com/images/casting/
[14:59:24] * furrywolf hopes the bottle was empty first
[14:59:24] <Crom_> ahh there your are andypugh ON YOUTUBE
[14:59:27] <andypugh> I am going to try using my electric furnace for melting first
[15:00:30] <furrywolf> one of my friends accidentally removed the valve from his full propane tank instead of the empty one once...
[15:01:20] <Crom_> ouch!
[15:02:14] <furrywolf> he said it only went whoosh for a couple seconds, then he looked down and could see the boiling propane in the bottom of it, and at that point it had stopped whooshing enough that he just threaded the valve back in.
[15:02:30] <furrywolf> I think it evaporated so fast it cooled itself to where it didn't evaporate much anymore.
[15:02:36] <Crom_> Yep
[15:03:14] <andypugh> I reckon this, in a vertical posture, with a steel crucible inside ought to melt brass:
https://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo/0KBnb_gsIAVDxe1ALNSTsNMTjNZETYmyPJy0liipFm0?feat=directlink
[15:03:15] <furrywolf> and fortunately there were no ignition sources nearby to ignite the giant cloud of propane vapor he was standing in the middle of. heh.
[15:03:42] <andypugh> Did he remember not to turn off the light?
[15:04:02] <furrywolf> it was outside
[15:04:24] <Crom_> andypugh, I couldn't hear.. what clock are you linking to in slave clock to MSF radio
[15:05:16] <andypugh> http://felixonline.co.uk/news/5198/union-clock-in-beit-quad-is-once-again-keeping-time/
[15:06:29] <cradek> > recording what positions the hands are in when power fails
[15:06:30] <cradek> how?
[15:06:55] <andypugh> It just saves the last time that it sent a pulse to the on-board eeprom
[15:07:24] <cradek> oh it saves it when power fails (but while it still has some leftover power left)?
[15:07:35] <Crom_> andypugh, nice!! Most of my clocks in the house sync to WWVD
[15:07:37] <andypugh> No, it saves every pulse
[15:07:56] <cradek> doesn't that burn out the eeprom in a week?
[15:08:01] <andypugh> There is scope for carnage if the power fails during the eeprom write
[15:09:02] <andypugh> I use a wear-levelling algorithm that indexes the low-order bytes of unix-time into suitably sized chunks of the 1k eeprom based on the high-order bytes in address 0 and 1
[15:09:22] <andypugh> And it only pulses every 30 seconds.
[15:09:30] <cradek> I should've figured you would have thought about it
[15:09:32] <Crom_> using which battery to save state during power loss? Since the receiver is so small, a 12v gel cell is overkill
[15:09:35] <furrywolf> writes don't damage eeproms... erases do. so if you invent a format that starts at all 0s and takes a long time to reach all 1s, before you have to erase, you can make it last much longer.
[15:09:48] <andypugh> My algorithm is good for 40 years. A very pednatic friend came up with an 800-year variation
[15:10:19] <furrywolf> or is that all 1s and reaching 0s? /me hasn't done any low-level eeprom stuff in a decade and a half
[15:11:07] <cradek> is there homing for a full set from unknown condition?
[15:11:50] <andypugh> cradek: Only manually via +30 seconds and +30 minutes buttons.
[15:12:12] <Crom_> what ever happened to static ram? Takes almost no power to save state.
[15:12:14] <cradek> ah, cool, easy enough for anyone to understand
[15:12:25] <roycroft> how do you accommodate leap seconds, andypugh?
[15:12:35] <andypugh> This is the interesting wear-levelling algorithm a friend came up with. His day job is C-code for nuclear weapons…
http://pastebin.com/wR8n0dG1
[15:12:40] <Crom_> no second hand... you don't
[15:12:54] <andypugh> roycroft: I trust the NPL to do that for me.
[15:13:10] <roycroft> hmm
[15:13:16] <roycroft> we'll we're having one this year
[15:13:24] <roycroft> and the whole internet is going to break!
[15:13:40] <roycroft> at least that's what i've been hearing on the mass media
[15:14:11] <furrywolf> andy: heh, that's about what I was picturing in my head.
[15:14:58] <furrywolf> What you don't know about internet time keeping could KILL YOUR COMPUTER! Tune in at 10pm tonight for the shocking story on how something as trivial as a second could end the world as we know it!
[15:15:14] <Crom_> andypugh, I have a windows computer with a dead battery so it can't keep time for beans... I hooked a $4.00USD Earthmate GPS to the serial port wrote a powerbasic program to set time every time it discovers time has drifted by over a second.
[15:15:54] <Crom_> yeah I could have changed the battery... but that would mean a trip to the store... I had the earthmate
[15:16:02] <furrywolf> because that's easier than installing tardis or whatever passes for a freeway time sync program these days? :)
[15:16:07] <furrywolf> freeware
[15:16:11] <andypugh> cradek: I decided that the cheapest and easiest way to recover from an unknown state woud be to have a webcam and machine vision at the opposite side of the quad :-)
[15:16:51] <Crom_> heh, no spare GPS laying around?
[15:17:30] <andypugh> GPS is no help for a pulse clock face with no feedback
[15:18:06] <andypugh> The MSF radio gives better time than the GPS, it tracks summer time
[15:18:40] <Crom_> mount some rotary position sensors to the hour and minute shafts
[15:18:51] <andypugh> How?
[15:18:59] <furrywolf> all you need is an index switch, not an actual encoder.
[15:19:17] <Crom_> most laser printers have one, and I'm sure you could find a couple dead ones at the Uni
[15:19:47] <Crom_> furry true
[15:19:52] <andypugh> There are lots of ways to do it. But the webcam would be cheaper. I was just making a point about the state of technology at the mment.
[15:20:12] <furrywolf> from an unknown state, spin it until it reads 12:00, spin to the correct time.
[15:20:40] <andypugh> Yeah, but that would involve messing with the mechanism. Which in interesting and old.
[15:21:21] <Crom_> black ziptie and an optical interrupter
[15:21:30] <andypugh> (and an index on the hour hand would actually be mildy tricky)
https://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo/0mrhOIdYcLjS456K3qFUbFkqfDq8gh186JKvicy1EOc?feat=directlink
[15:22:26] <furrywolf> machine vision is a cute solution - I'm just not sure it's faster. heh.
[15:23:12] <Crom_> furrywolf, totally faster...
[15:23:48] <furrywolf> to install a camera at a remote location, run cable or set up wireless video, process the video with various machine vision algorithms that don't screw up in dark or fog, etc?
[15:24:18] <Crom_> paint a red line on the hour gear and a blue line on the minute gear, spin until both are visable and them calculate time, then adjust from there
[15:24:32] <andypugh> It’s a university building. CAT5 cabling is not a problem.
[15:25:06] <furrywolf> my experience with machine vision is nothing is ever as simple as you might hope.
[15:25:29] <andypugh> Ooh! motion.program-line == 0 . Time to unclamp the rotary :-)
[15:26:00] <furrywolf> crom: or just two pairs of black and white lines and two simple photosensors.
[15:26:36] <furrywolf> actually, the way one gear is cut out over the other, you could do it with one sensor and some clever coding.
[15:28:11] <andypugh> Light-out machining in the home workshop. What fun :-)
[15:31:17] <Crom_> I'm fighting a 3040 right now.. yoocnc nt65-3x board using Toshiba TB6560 drivers.. I lifted M2 instead of M1 so instead of setting 1/2 micro step I set 1/16 microstep
[15:32:29] <Crom_> now I have to remove the board again take off the hink sink, lift M2 (ping 23) on the drivers, flip it over resolder M2 down and reassemble
[15:33:16] <Crom_> and add a 5v line to a 3.5mm stereo jack for the probe so I can use opti interrupters for the probe.
[15:35:34] <Crom_> tip data, ring 1 +5v thru a 440 resister and ring 2 gnd
[15:38:52] <andypugh> proves are normally just a 2-wire switch
[15:39:01] <andypugh> Are there not optos on the inputs to the board?
[15:39:21] <cradek> I doubt this leap second will destroy the internet when the previous ones haven't...
[15:39:46] <cradek> interesting that they've been quite regular since 2006
[15:40:03] <andypugh> The earth is slowing down
[15:40:57] <roycroft> but, cradek, the other ones did not make the mainstream media
[15:41:00] <roycroft> that's why this one is different
[15:41:22] <roycroft> actually, i think last leap second some social media service broke briefly
[15:41:36] <furrywolf> some airline's flight scheduler failed
[15:41:42] <roycroft> and since any single service on the internet comprises the entire internet, that one thing breaking a little means the whole internet broke
[15:42:18] <furrywolf> roycroft. it's not just the internet, it's the world. remember, people call 911 when facebook is down. :P
[15:42:34] <andypugh> If that isn’t an energency I don’t knw what is
[15:42:51] <cradek> I always read about facebook outages in the newspaper, haha
[15:43:09] <cradek> it must be very important to people who aren't me
[15:44:50] <cradek> quite consistent since 2006:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Leap_second#mediaviewer/File:Leapsecond.ut1-utc.svg
[15:44:55] <furrywolf> re the $2 stop switches, I tried subjecting mine to a bit of abuse, and it hasn't broken yet.
[15:45:07] <cradek> something about the planet sure changed around 1998-99
[15:45:59] <furrywolf> specifically, I actuated it about a hundred times, including slamming a first into it several times.
[15:48:20] <zeeshan|2> guys
[15:48:28] <zeeshan|2> i think i might know why i fried 3 drives
[15:48:41] <zeeshan|2> see if this makes sense
[15:48:43] <furrywolf> oh?
[15:49:40] <zeeshan|2> my servo motor rating is 15.3A cont @ 173V
[15:50:25] <furrywolf> ok
[15:50:34] <zeeshan|2> i might have exceeded the voltage limit
[15:50:48] <zeeshan|2> my drive spec says
[15:50:52] <zeeshan|2> 30-125VAC
[15:50:58] <zeeshan|2> dc supply range = 40 - 190vdc
[15:51:03] <furrywolf> it doesn't work that way. :)
[15:51:27] <zeeshan|2> ??
[15:51:40] <furrywolf> the drive won't output more voltage than it is given from the mains input
[15:51:52] <zeeshan|2> how am i measuring 180V?
[15:51:57] <zeeshan|2> dc
[15:52:01] <furrywolf> and the servo won't be damaged by excessive voltage
[15:52:07] <furrywolf> 120 * sqrt(2)
[15:52:19] <andypugh> cradek: Boxing Day Tsunami plate shift?
[15:52:45] <zeeshan|2> okay so 120.7VAC * 1.414
[15:52:58] <zeeshan|2> 170.6V dc
[15:53:13] <zeeshan|2> its at the limit , but should be okay :/
[15:53:22] <Crom_> andypugh, nice chuck in your horizontal clutch milling video, same one I have on my Sheldon Sheldon
[15:53:49] <furrywolf> your drive also has a built-in shunt regulator, such that if the motor acts as a generator enough to push the supply rail too high (I think it said 195V, but you'd need to check the manual), it dumps it into a big resistor.
[15:54:05] <andypugh> It’s a special Myford one, with the thread in the body. The dividing head has a Myford thread.
[15:54:49] <furrywolf> also, the voltage rating on the servo is not a hard limit. you can probably go to several hundred volts for short periods of time.
[15:55:48] <zeeshan|2> :[
[15:55:53] <furrywolf> the continuous rating is what it won't burn out at if you run it that way all day. for short periods, limited by temperature rise, you can go much higher.
[15:56:09] <zeeshan|2> yea the manual for the motor says
[15:56:11] <furrywolf> this is why you can set the peak current well over the continuous current.
[15:56:11] <zeeshan|2> 110A peaks are ok
[15:56:17] <furrywolf> like that. :P
[15:57:06] <zeeshan|2> i have one final drive left
[15:57:12] <zeeshan|2> i wanna give it the best possible chance
[15:57:23] <zeeshan|2> 400$ burned so far
[15:57:31] <Crom_> really looks like mine, though mine has an adapter plate to my 1 3/4"-8TPI spindle
[15:57:36] <zeeshan|2> [basing this on replacement cost of a used drive]
[15:58:08] <zeeshan|2> im thinking i might just keep it as a spare for x and y replacement
[15:58:11] <furrywolf> I don't have any ideas why they're blowing...
[15:58:21] <zeeshan|2> im thinking i need to do 2 steps:
[15:58:29] <zeeshan|2> 1. take the servo motor out and send it out for testing
[15:58:34] <zeeshan|2> someone who has proper equipment
[15:58:35] <furrywolf> 1) tell manufacturer to send you 3 new drives? :)
[15:58:46] <zeeshan|2> 2. buy a larger capacity Z drive
[15:59:05] <zeeshan|2> or.
[15:59:09] <zeeshan|2> optional step:
[15:59:12] <zeeshan|2> buy a brand new motor
[15:59:16] <zeeshan|2> and drive that goes w/ it.
[15:59:18] <zeeshan|2> like pete did
[15:59:32] <furrywolf> capacity shouldn't have anything to do with it... a drive _should_ protect itself against anything your motor does...
[15:59:49] <zeeshan|2> i'd think that too
[16:00:02] <zeeshan|2> especially since they blow when they're just sitting in disabled state. not moving
[16:00:29] <furrywolf> could still be some problem with your power wiring that you haven't found...
[16:00:42] <furrywolf> or design flaw in the drives
[16:00:45] <zeeshan|2> yea the lady from amc told me
[16:00:51] <zeeshan|2> reversing the neutral and hot
[16:00:57] <zeeshan|2> will blow the drive like i've had em blow
[16:01:12] <zeeshan|2> this is something you said too
[16:01:16] <furrywolf> ... it shouldn't. that means they have something designed very, very utterly wrong.
[16:01:22] <Tom_itx> zeeshan|2 send me your last driver
[16:01:26] <Tom_itx> :)
[16:01:26] <zeeshan|2> Tom_itx: no!
[16:01:30] <zeeshan|2> its my spare for x and y
[16:01:32] <Crom_> hmmm rig some sort of zeiner diode circuit for dumping excess current?
[16:01:39] <Tom_itx> you dont know how to treat them right!!!
[16:01:42] <zeeshan|2> hahaha
[16:01:45] <zeeshan|2> you can have my 3 burned ones
[16:01:59] <furrywolf> now, if you're accidentally _switching_ the neutral, or you got neutral and hot miswired from the main power input...
[16:02:11] <Tom_itx> if the chips weren't covered up i might take you up on that
[16:02:14] <zeeshan|2> furrywolf: if i had them miswired
[16:02:20] <zeeshan|2> wouldnt they blow up on first power up?
[16:02:30] <furrywolf> dunno
[16:02:43] <zeeshan|2> the only thing left to try is
[16:02:49] <zeeshan|2> keeping all drives on l1
[16:02:53] <zeeshan|2> instead of z on l2 by itself
[16:02:54] <Tom_itx> zeeshan|2 i'm somewhat determined on this board but the scales are tipping toward mesa right now
[16:03:06] <zeeshan|2> Tom_itx: it's not working?
[16:03:06] <furrywolf> you need a 'scope.
[16:03:13] <Tom_itx> not like it should
[16:03:17] <zeeshan|2> furrywolf: assume i have a scope
[16:03:20] <zeeshan|2> what would i check?
[16:03:23] <Tom_itx> i need to get the pwm scale figured out
[16:03:32] <zeeshan|2> ill buy a scope
[16:03:36] <zeeshan|2> ive been wanting to for a while
[16:03:42] <Tom_itx> get a logic analizer
[16:04:02] <furrywolf> line voltage, motor outputs, umm... try to find anything that glitches on e-stop or un-e-stop.
[16:04:22] <zeeshan|2> would i not have to plug in the drive
[16:04:25] <zeeshan|2> =D
[16:04:29] <Tom_itx> with the right tools you can tune before you fry the bacon
[16:04:45] <zeeshan|2> or you want me to measure the transient voltage
[16:04:46] <zeeshan|2> at the mains
[16:04:49] <zeeshan|2> of the entire system
[16:05:14] <Crom_> heh andy time to put a stepper on the tail stock
[16:05:26] <furrywolf> measure everything until you find something that looks like it'd make a driver fry. :P
[16:05:31] <zeeshan|2> lol
[16:05:38] <zeeshan|2> the thing is
[16:05:44] <zeeshan|2> it's protected from transient spikes
[16:05:52] <zeeshan|2> i need to relook at my circuit
[16:05:54] <furrywolf> you might need a large supply of spare drivers, however.
[16:06:02] <zeeshan|2> and see if somehow im for a dumbass reason switching l2 and neutral
[16:06:03] <zeeshan|2> somehow
[16:06:30] <zeeshan|2> the only place it can happen is at the contactor
[16:06:32] <furrywolf> cut zip ties and follow wires?
[16:06:36] <zeeshan|2> i really dont see how i could possible wire it
[16:06:46] <zeeshan|2> furry dont even have to do that man
[16:06:51] <zeeshan|2> you know how i checked my wiring when i was doing it?
[16:07:06] <zeeshan|2> before i connected the wire, i would check ohms on the wire
[16:07:09] <furrywolf> even switching neutral wouldn't immediately fry it unless there was another load on the same neutral but on the other power leg
[16:07:11] <zeeshan|2> from the two end points
[16:07:21] <Crom_> lick your finger and test?
[16:07:25] <furrywolf> in theory, there's absolutely no difference between theory and practice.
[16:07:32] <furrywolf> in reality, check your wiring. :P
[16:08:14] <Crom_> In practice, Theory never matches practice
[16:08:16] <furrywolf> obviously something is wrong. it may not be your wiring. but it should be checked anyway.
[16:08:48] <Crom_> is there somewhere you can have an inductance input into your wiring?
[16:09:13] <furrywolf> the drive, imho, looks crappily designed.
[16:09:39] <zeeshan|2> trust me, i'm definitely not buying amc again
[16:09:43] <zeeshan|2> ive been trying to find alternatives
[16:09:51] <zeeshan|2> was hoping someone in here had a recommendation for a good drive
[16:10:05] <zeeshan|2> tachometer based, vel feedback,
[16:10:22] <zeeshan|2> 15A cont, and as high as possible peak
[16:10:36] <zeeshan|2> glentek has a bad rep too
[16:10:49] <zeeshan|2> amc has a pretty bad rep too when you google for amc drive failures
[16:11:11] <zeeshan|2> https://groups.google.com/forum/#!topic/alt.machines.cnc/inxWR1UN94c
[16:11:11] <zeeshan|2> :)
[16:13:33] <furrywolf> heh
[16:14:47] <pcw_home> Yeah but try all on L1 with a single contact first
[16:15:00] <zeeshan|2> how can i use a single contact
[16:15:04] <zeeshan|2> theyre on seperate fuses
[16:15:14] <furrywolf> use one fuse twice the size?
[16:15:21] <zeeshan|2> and the contact rating is 20A
[16:15:31] <zeeshan|2> 3x15a = 45A
[16:15:53] <furrywolf> anyway, aren't you using fancy snap-together modular fuse holders that you could just move to the other line?
[16:16:03] <furrywolf> or swap wires (and fuses) with one of the vfds or something?
[16:16:05] <zeeshan|2> it's not that easy
[16:16:11] <zeeshan|2> cause im using a comb bus bar
[16:16:22] <zeeshan|2> what i can do is move the PC and 24vdc supplies
[16:16:25] <zeeshan|2> to l2.
[16:16:26] <furrywolf> or simply swap power plugs with the x or y drive, test, and if z still blows, it wasn't the power input, but if x or y blows, it is? :P
[16:17:01] <pcw_home> fuse separately but run from the same line
[16:17:52] <zeeshan|2> i'm not trying to argue , just trying to understand your logic
[16:18:04] <zeeshan|2> how does moving the power from l2 to l1 change things
[16:18:13] <furrywolf> I like the plug swapping idea, but all of these will result in frying your last drive.
[16:18:37] <zeeshan|2> http://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_from=R40&_trksid=p2050601.m570.l1313.TR0.TRC0.H0.Xbe25a20a&_nkw=be25a20ac&_sacat=0
[16:18:39] <zeeshan|2> the replacement drive
[16:18:41] <zeeshan|2> will get very expensive
[16:18:43] <zeeshan|2> 275$1
[16:18:44] <zeeshan|2> !!
[16:19:27] <zeeshan|2> i really wanan understand the logic
[16:19:30] <zeeshan|2> of moving l2 to l1
[16:19:43] <zeeshan|2> in a normal situation both l2 to n and l1 to n are 120vac
[16:19:44] <andypugh> Half price, if you buy all 7 then you save $1750
[16:19:56] <zeeshan|2> lol
[16:21:27] <furrywolf> I can't think of any testing to perform at this point that doesn't seriously jeapordize your last driver.
[16:21:44] <furrywolf> replace the drive with a light bulb and see if it does what it should?
[16:21:53] <zeeshan|2> i did do that
[16:21:57] <zeeshan|2> didnt do much
[16:22:12] <furrywolf> did it turn on and off with your e-stop, and didn't get abnormally bright?
[16:22:22] <zeeshan|2> yep
[16:22:25] <furrywolf> what is your actual measured line voltage?
[16:22:26] <zeeshan|2> i can make a video of it :P
[16:22:30] <zeeshan|2> 120.7VAC
[16:22:42] <furrywolf> ok, so not abnormal there.
[16:23:36] <furrywolf> power to the drive only runs through the single contactor, right? there's no main contactor that also opens on e-stop?
[16:24:46] <zeeshan|2> for some reason my brain had a fart reading your q
[16:24:47] <zeeshan|2> haha
[16:25:10] <zeeshan|2> yea e-stop is its own loop that opens contactors
[16:25:13] <zeeshan|2> there is no main contactor
[16:25:15] <Tom_itx> i wonder how much voltage from the DAC it takes to start the spindle
[16:25:18] <zeeshan|2> there is a main disconnect switch
[16:25:50] <Tom_itx> with a S50 i get .164v out
[16:25:59] <Tom_itx> with an S5000 i get 10v now
[16:26:12] <Tom_itx> the range is pretty close to what i want now i think
[16:26:21] <zeeshan|2> playing around w/ the scale?
[16:26:25] <Crom_> are the contactors double pole?
[16:26:29] <zeeshan|2> 3 pole
[16:26:33] <Tom_itx> zeeshan|2 yes
[16:26:38] <zeeshan|2> okay guys look
[16:26:38] <Tom_itx> and the pwm frequency
[16:26:53] <zeeshan|2> i'm not an electronics guru, so i need to just back to my engineering "sense"
[16:27:07] <zeeshan|2> the X y and z drives have taken multiple e-stops and survived
[16:27:17] <zeeshan|2> for the 15-16 hours the system has been running
[16:27:17] <Tom_itx> the z motor is bigger
[16:27:31] <zeeshan|2> then eventually during an e-stop cycle, it blew the Z drive
[16:27:33] <Tom_itx> the z axis is heavier
[16:27:38] <zeeshan|2> and then replacing the drive w/ another
[16:27:43] <zeeshan|2> caused it to blow up after the first e-stop cycle
[16:27:47] <zeeshan|2> something changed somewhere
[16:27:50] <zeeshan|2> my wiring remained the same
[16:27:53] * furrywolf still suspects the motor or its wiring
[16:27:57] <zeeshan|2> to me, logically the only thing that can fuck up
[16:27:59] <zeeshan|2> is the motor
[16:28:13] <Tom_itx> got another smaller one to test with?
[16:28:20] <zeeshan|2> no i dont unfortuantely
[16:28:44] <Tom_itx> ok this might be close enough to apply power to the driver
[16:28:45] <zeeshan|2> i need to find a motor that outputs 7.5N*m
[16:29:19] <Tom_itx> at S20 the pulse is 1µs
[16:29:22] <Tom_itx> high time
[16:29:55] <Deejay> gn8
[16:29:56] <zeeshan|2> where is pete!
[16:29:56] <Tom_itx> at S5000 it is .2777ms
[16:30:38] <Tom_itx> pete and repete were sitting on a bridge, pete fell off.... who was left?
[16:30:46] <zeeshan|2> lol
[16:31:11] <Tom_itx> that could go on all day ya know...
[16:31:40] <Tom_itx> ok i'm somewhat satisfied with these results so far
[16:32:05] <zeeshan|2> did you get reversing working
[16:32:24] <Tom_itx> no, i'm working on the pwm first
[16:32:50] <Tom_itx> reverse will require some logic to my hal file and maybe a bigger relay
[16:33:30] <Tom_itx> if i reverse at S5000 i don't want those poor little blue boxes popping off the pcb
[16:33:57] <zeeshan|2> blow them in style
[16:34:00] <zeeshan|2> !
[16:34:49] <Tom_itx> take it from a master...
[16:35:03] <zeeshan|2> lol!
[16:41:53] <Tom_itx> zeeshan|2, how are these relays _supposed_ to work for reverse?
[16:42:01] <Tom_itx> driving a vfd input?
[16:42:10] <Tom_itx> instead of this little thing...
[16:42:21] <zeeshan|2> what are they rated for again?
[16:42:32] <Tom_itx> 10A i think
[16:42:44] <zeeshan|2> whats your spindle motor max draw?
[16:42:59] <zeeshan|2> they can be used in both spindle drive
[16:43:01] <zeeshan|2> and vfd apps
[16:43:08] <zeeshan|2> depending on motor specs
[16:43:17] <Tom_itx> 10A 28vdc
[16:43:23] <Tom_itx> 7A 250vac
[16:43:30] <zeeshan|2> aw
[16:43:36] <zeeshan|2> your draw is too much
[16:43:54] <Tom_itx> 10A 12vac
[16:44:06] <zeeshan|2> thats your spindle specs?
[16:44:09] <Tom_itx> i dunno what that motor draws
[16:44:12] <Tom_itx> that's the relay
[16:44:13] <zeeshan|2> how many watt
[16:44:21] <zeeshan|2> and volts
[16:44:23] <zeeshan|2> estimate
[16:44:28] <Tom_itx> lemme see if i can find it
[16:44:33] <Tom_itx> maybe 600?
[16:44:48] <zeeshan|2> yea but whats your power supply
[16:44:50] <zeeshan|2> to your drive
[16:44:53] <Tom_itx> no, it's not that ig
[16:44:54] <Tom_itx> big
[16:45:02] <Tom_itx> 120vac
[16:45:08] <zeeshan|2> hm
[16:45:13] <zeeshan|2> 120vac amps? :P
[16:45:16] <Tom_itx> it's reduced inside it
[16:45:27] <zeeshan|2> you really need to figure out your motor current draw
[16:45:47] <zeeshan|2> to see if those relays are ok
[16:45:49] <zeeshan|2> if they are
[16:45:57] <zeeshan|2> then you can use a similar circuit as my z-brake i'd think
[16:46:00] <zeeshan|2> to reverse polarity
[16:46:13] <zeeshan|2> https://www.dropbox.com/s/pz1o87ru9cyhgwm/IO.PDF?dl=0
[16:46:17] <zeeshan|2> instead of z-brake
[16:46:23] <zeeshan|2> replace with motor
[16:46:42] <zeeshan|2> whoops
[16:46:47] <zeeshan|2> you might need to change it around
[16:47:00] <zeeshan|2> i forget what relays it switches
[16:47:05] <zeeshan|2> on reverse
[16:47:09] <zeeshan|2> and what relays for fwd
[16:47:46] <Tom_L> http://www.sherline.com/reverse.htm
[16:48:10] <Tom_itx> acording to that it should work
[16:48:54] <zeeshan|2> ignore my io.pdf
[16:48:58] <zeeshan|2> i was confusing your relays
[16:49:03] <zeeshan|2> you havbe relays for start/stop
[16:49:07] <zeeshan|2> one for fwd/rev
[16:49:29] <Tom_itx> yeah but they're SPDT
[16:49:38] <Tom_itx> i was gonna wire them both to fwd/rev
[16:49:50] <Tom_itx> and use them as a DPDT
[16:49:59] <zeeshan|2> i dont see why thats a problem
[16:50:04] <zeeshan|2> actually lemem think
[16:50:24] <Tom_itx> now, can i wire their board or do i need to cut a trace to the 2nd relay input
[16:50:30] <Tom_itx> and wire it myself
[16:50:40] <Tom_itx> so they will work together
[16:51:05] <Tom_itx> i don't see why i can't run the same signal to both relays
[16:51:30] * Tom_itx grabs a hunk of 10ga wire...
[16:52:19] * zeeshan|2 doesnt see how you can do with with a spdt relay
[16:52:34] <Tom_itx> use both relays for fwd/rev
[16:52:43] <Tom_itx> one for each motor leg
[16:53:00] <Tom_itx> same as having a DPDT relay
[16:54:07] <PCW> Tom_itx: we have 7I47S's they are just not tested yet
[16:54:42] <Crom_> DOH!!!
[16:54:53] <Tom_itx> PCW great
[16:54:58] <Crom_> the driver blow on estop right?
[16:55:20] <Tom_itx> PCW, i was playing with the freq and scale on this thing and got a decent range from it
[16:55:31] <zeeshan|2> crom on release of estop
[16:55:31] <Tom_itx> getting ready to wire the motor up to try it
[16:55:33] <zeeshan|2> or on estop
[16:55:35] <zeeshan|2> one of then :P
[16:55:38] <Crom_> are the motors turning or sitting still, is there holding current flowing through them?
[16:55:49] <zeeshan|2> sittin stilkl
[16:55:49] <PCW> OK (it _should_ be possible)
[16:55:58] <Crom_> is there holding current flowing through them?
[16:56:01] <Tom_itx> i would think so
[16:56:03] <zeeshan|2> no
[16:56:12] <zeeshan|2> cause they are in disabled state
[16:56:13] <Tom_itx> just took a bit of time to get them in the right range
[16:56:14] <zeeshan|2> (drives)
[16:56:51] <PCW> all this points to a transient primary overvoltage
[16:56:55] <Crom_> It almost seems to me there is something in the system acting like a colapsing magnetic field like in a car ignition coil
[16:57:29] <Crom_> which is transfered into another winding making the motor act like a big coil
[16:57:37] <Crom_> big ignition coil
[16:57:51] <Crom_> what max voltage on the system?
[16:57:57] <zeeshan|2> 125ac
[16:57:57] <PCW> no motor current PWM off = minimal load = susceptible to sneak paths on primary
[16:58:21] <zeeshan|2> by sneak paths you mean
[16:58:25] <zeeshan|2> suspectible to overvoltage damage
[16:58:32] <zeeshan|2> ?
[16:58:41] <Crom_> put Metal Oxide Varisters between each motor lead ala surge suppressor at a 200v or 300v rating
[16:59:06] <furrywolf> does the brake engage/disengage during the e-stop or un-e-stop process?
[16:59:11] <zeeshan|2> furrywolf: yes
[16:59:19] <Tom_itx> zeeshan|2, i can use both relays... just tested it and i have a SSR i can use for enable
[16:59:23] <zeeshan|2> theres like at most 0.001" movement
[16:59:28] <PCW> somehow you are getting more than 120V on the primary maybe only when switching
[16:59:29] <zeeshan|2> Tom_itx: nice!
[16:59:30] <Tom_itx> or use the inhibit on the drive
[16:59:52] <furrywolf> could the motor be designed in some funky fashion that is coupling the brake magnetic field to the motor coils?
[16:59:54] <Tom_itx> i now need to get the logic for the inhibit on the driver working
[17:00:13] <zeeshan|2> furrywolf: that is an interesting question
[17:00:16] <zeeshan|2> when the brake is powered
[17:00:25] <zeeshan|2> the pulley of the motor can have metal stuck to it
[17:00:34] <zeeshan|2> when it's disengaged, the magnestism goes away
[17:00:55] <zeeshan|2> can it be inducing a voltage to the motor winding?
[17:00:59] <zeeshan|2> i'd thinkso.
[17:01:05] <Tom_itx> motion.spindle.forward -> or-gate motion.spindle.reverse -> or-gate ---> one shot ---> drive-inhibit
[17:01:11] <Crom_> Dude MOV's!!!! before anything else put in MOV's between everything to everything
[17:01:24] <furrywolf> connect a random LED to the motor wires (at the drive) and cycle the brake a few times.
[17:01:43] <Tom_itx> now i need a relay for the inhibit.. or a MOSFET
[17:01:59] * Tom_itx has some Hamlin 101 relays for that
[17:02:06] <Crom_> I'd use a mov 100v high than your limited voltage which I think was 195v, so try some 300v MOV's
[17:02:08] <zeeshan|2> PCW: more than 120v during switching
[17:02:09] <PCW> the drive should be fine with up to 170V at the drive terminals when disabled
[17:02:17] <zeeshan|2> wouldnt that show up as a light bulb getting brighter
[17:02:36] <furrywolf> light bulbs are, unfortunately, very slow.
[17:02:46] <zeeshan|2> lol
[17:02:54] <zeeshan|2> so really ineed to probe w/ a scope
[17:02:57] <PCW> maybe but depends on the other loads
[17:03:07] <zeeshan|2> okay fuck it
[17:03:09] <zeeshan|2> im gonna take a risk
[17:03:13] <zeeshan|2> im gonna move eveything to l1.
[17:03:17] <zeeshan|2> and e-stop
[17:03:27] <furrywolf> that's just going to fry another driver...
[17:03:29] <zeeshan|2> lol
[17:03:55] <zeeshan|2> pcw suspects primary side
[17:03:58] <zeeshan|2> furry suspects motor side
[17:04:06] <furrywolf> I'm mildly intrigued by the idea that the brake is causing voltage spikes on the motor windings... not sure it actually works that way, but it's an interesting idea.
[17:04:13] <Crom_> MOV MOV MOV MOV that'll kill any transients over 300v which should save drivers
[17:04:19] <zeeshan|2> furrywolf: yea but its only a 24vdc coil
[17:04:23] <zeeshan|2> how much current can it possibly induce
[17:04:29] <furrywolf> do you have snubbers or anything else to keep the brake voltage from going to a zillion or so volts when it's switched off?
[17:04:35] <zeeshan|2> no.
[17:04:36] <Crom_> car coild is 12v to 20000v
[17:04:59] <Crom_> does brake have clamping diode?
[17:05:02] <zeeshan|2> no
[17:05:15] <zeeshan|2> but remember,during the e-stop state
[17:05:19] <zeeshan|2> the brake was enabled before and after
[17:05:21] <zeeshan|2> it wasn't switched
[17:05:27] <PCW> Umm you _need_ a snubber across the relay contacts that switch the brake
[17:05:28] <furrywolf> put two antiparallel LEDs on the motor wires at the drive plug (no drive needed) and cycle the brake. it probably won't do anything, but I'm curious. :P
[17:05:49] <zeeshan|2> pcw i was told they only reduce relay life
[17:05:56] <zeeshan|2> contact life
[17:06:02] <furrywolf> increase :P
[17:06:03] <PCW> false
[17:06:15] <Crom_> furrywolf, that'll work...
[17:06:51] <zeeshan|2> i dont think the brake is whats blowing it
[17:06:53] <zeeshan|2> cause its in the same state
[17:06:56] <zeeshan|2> before and after my e-stop cycle
[17:07:09] <PCW> they improve contact life and more importantly reduce the very nasty EMI spike from the arc that forms when contact is broken
[17:07:26] <Tom_itx> zeeshan|2 could it be a contributing factor?
[17:07:29] <furrywolf> ah, I thought you said the brake switches with the e-stop.
[17:07:35] <Crom_> you have any mov's laying around?
[17:07:43] <zeeshan|2> furrywolf: it does normally
[17:07:45] <furrywolf> > does the brake engage/disengage during the e-stop or un-e-stop process? <zeeshan|2> furrywolf: yes
[17:07:48] <furrywolf> yes, you did
[17:07:53] <Crom_> old surge suppressors?
[17:07:57] <zeeshan|2> crom no i dont
[17:07:59] <zeeshan|2> i only have diodes
[17:08:13] <zeeshan|2> furrywolf: but the second drive failure
[17:08:18] <zeeshan|2> i made sure that the drive was disabled
[17:08:23] <zeeshan|2> and the brake was engaged before and after
[17:08:25] <zeeshan|2> without changing state
[17:08:48] <furrywolf> so the brake didn't cycle at any point during the test, as your e-stop opened all the solenoids?
[17:08:54] <zeeshan|2> exactly
[17:09:05] <zeeshan|2> in the first failure it did
[17:09:08] <furrywolf> hrmm
[17:09:10] <zeeshan|2> i wanted to remove it as a factor
[17:09:18] <PCW> The brake snubber is needed but likely unrelated to your problem
[17:09:30] <zeeshan|2> i will add one
[17:09:40] <zeeshan|2> a varistor.
[17:09:49] <Crom_> 1. Drivers are dying. 2. they are dead, dead as door nail. 3 transients are the number one killer of electronics. 4. MOV's are transient swatters.
[17:09:56] <PCW> Yes
[17:10:20] <zeeshan|2> it is likely
[17:10:25] <zeeshan|2> that the vfds are dumping transients back
[17:10:27] <zeeshan|2> during shut off
[17:10:36] <zeeshan|2> but its just odd that its killing stuff on l2
[17:10:37] <zeeshan|2> and not l1
[17:10:41] <furrywolf> aren't the VFDs on a different contactor contact?
[17:10:44] <PCW> The drives have MOVs already
[17:10:51] <zeeshan|2> furrywolf: correct
[17:10:54] <furrywolf> and thus no longer connected to the drive as soon as the contactors start to open?
[17:11:00] <Crom_> pcw maybe not big enough
[17:11:02] <furrywolf> and thus not able to dump transients back? heh
[17:11:12] <zeeshan|2> furrywolf: what if there is a chance
[17:11:16] <zeeshan|2> that one contactor opens before the other?
[17:11:17] <PCW> I would wire the drives all on L1
[17:11:20] <furrywolf> also, the way your drivers are built, I'd expect them to be fairly resistant to input transients.
[17:11:46] <furrywolf> it'd have to be a real surge, like a motor braking, not just something switching... and even then I'm not sure it'd fry it unless it was several seconds.
[17:11:48] <zeeshan|2> pcw: that was the plan
[17:11:55] <zeeshan|2> furry said stuff will still blow :-)
[17:12:01] <zeeshan|2> im definitely moving everything to l1
[17:12:07] <zeeshan|2> but if i can change something else during this final test
[17:12:09] <zeeshan|2> i'd like to
[17:12:13] <zeeshan|2> i'd like to have a nice friday evening
[17:12:15] <zeeshan|2> not a sad one :-)
[17:12:16] <PCW> then I would leave the motor unconnected
[17:12:32] <zeeshan|2> then power cycle
[17:12:35] <Crom_> also add movs across the contactos l1 to 12, l1 to nuetral, l2 to nuetral, nuetral to ground
[17:12:40] <PCW> yes
[17:12:44] <zeeshan|2> if it doesnt blow
[17:12:47] <furrywolf> rather than rewiring the power, swap power plugs with X or Y, and see if the new Z drive blows, indicating it's the motor, or the one you put the power plug in blows, indicating it's power.
[17:12:48] <zeeshan|2> connect motor and control circuit
[17:12:50] <zeeshan|2> and power cycle
[17:12:51] <zeeshan|2> if it blows
[17:12:53] <Crom_> 3 movs for 110v, 4 mov for 220v
[17:12:53] <zeeshan|2> motor is to blame
[17:12:54] <zeeshan|2> period?
[17:13:38] <furrywolf> there's no "period" when troubleshooting. strange interactions are normal.
[17:13:56] <Crom_> zeeshan|2, probable
[17:14:09] <zeeshan|2> how about i just save my drive
[17:14:14] <zeeshan|2> an order a new z servo and motor?
[17:14:15] <zeeshan|2> er
[17:14:17] <zeeshan|2> servo and drive
[17:14:22] <zeeshan|2> :-)
[17:14:28] <furrywolf> that works too... maybe. unless it's your power wiring. :P
[17:14:30] <PCW> Yeah eliminate the differences between Z and X Y
[17:14:49] <zeeshan|2> pcw to test your primary wire transient voltage
[17:14:52] <Crom_> but still add the mov's
[17:14:57] <zeeshan|2> cant i just grab a scope
[17:14:58] <zeeshan|2> and measure it
[17:15:05] <zeeshan|2> so i dont blow up another drive in the process
[17:16:34] <PCW> well not exactly because the loads are different
[17:17:23] <Crom_> I even have MOV's in my power panel coming into the house
[17:17:32] <zeeshan|2> crom youre a mov addict
[17:17:32] <zeeshan|2> lol
[17:17:33] <furrywolf> I have no MOVs.
[17:17:53] <furrywolf> well, my inverter has some built in, and I suspect many of my power strips do too...
[17:18:19] <Crom_> I used to live in Texas land of thunder storms... Before MOVs around $400 damage a year, after $0
[17:18:50] <PCW> have you checked to see if the hbridge is damaged? (power transistors shorted)
[17:18:59] <zeeshan|2> no
[17:19:05] <zeeshan|2> well kind of.
[17:19:10] <zeeshan|2> i put an ohmmeter between the terminals
[17:19:13] <zeeshan|2> of a good one and a bad one
[17:19:19] <zeeshan|2> and they're significantly different.
[17:19:28] <zeeshan|2> this is @ the mosfet
[17:19:48] <zeeshan|2> theres a monster chip
[17:19:49] <zeeshan|2> 3 of them.
[17:19:54] <zeeshan|2> with 6 pins each
[17:19:55] <Crom_> mosfets are easy to change
[17:20:02] <zeeshan|2> im assuming thats the mosfet
[17:20:18] <zeeshan|2> when i measure ohms between 2 pins
[17:20:19] <zeeshan|2> i get 0 ohms
[17:20:26] <zeeshan|2> where as in the good drive, i get like 93k ohms
[17:20:27] <Crom_> that sounds more like a hbridge mosfet
[17:20:46] <furrywolf> crom: from looking at the failures, in addition to any main power component failures, an internal switching supply failed and dumped the rectified mains onto the logic bus.
[17:21:04] <furrywolf> or the gate oxides blew and dumped mains onto the logic bus that way
[17:21:29] <furrywolf> how many internal fuses do the drives have, and how many of them blew?
[17:21:34] <zeeshan|2> only one
[17:21:35] <zeeshan|2> none.
[17:21:42] <furrywolf> yay crap designs.
[17:21:44] <zeeshan|2> dude
[17:21:46] <zeeshan|2> its such a shit design
[17:21:48] <Crom_> that's a bad PS design if main can get to logic
[17:21:55] <zeeshan|2> that when i frigging purposely hooked up that power supply
[17:21:57] <zeeshan|2> to a KNOWN shorted board
[17:22:00] <zeeshan|2> guess what blew up ?
[17:22:03] <zeeshan|2> the voltage regulator
[17:22:04] <zeeshan|2> not the fuse.
[17:22:12] <zeeshan|2> what kind of horse shit is that
[17:22:36] <PCW> The fuse is only to prevent fire in case of a massive short
[17:22:47] <zeeshan|2> a 0 ohm short
[17:22:49] <zeeshan|2> isnt massive?
[17:22:56] <furrywolf> crom: it instantly exploded multiple filter capacitors.
[17:23:15] <PCW> no way you can protect all the little parts from possible faults
[17:23:40] <furrywolf> 25V caps on a 12V rail, completely splattered all over the board.
[17:23:52] <PCW> a 0 ohm short in the MOSFETs woudl blow the fuse
[17:23:55] <Crom_> always put a limiting wire wound resister before the VR
[17:24:00] <zeeshan|2> PCW: it did not
[17:24:11] <zeeshan|2> unless im merasuring it on the wrong terminals of the mosfet
[17:24:24] <PCW> then the MOSFETs are not shorted
[17:24:58] <Crom_> heh diaelectric cap in copper pine then run 220 mains across them booom cap cannon
[17:25:13] <zeeshan|2> http://i.imgur.com/kUSOEYO.jpg?1
[17:25:19] <zeeshan|2> are thsoe the mosfet pins ?
[17:25:31] <zeeshan|2> you can see the screw for them too.
[17:25:50] <zeeshan|2> i measured q5 to the pin right above q5
[17:25:53] <zeeshan|2> read 0 ohms
[17:25:57] <furrywolf> that looks like a 3-phase mosfet bridge, yes.
[17:26:31] <furrywolf> is that another tantalum capacitor with a hole blown in it?
[17:26:33] <zeeshan|2> you can see the fried cap down there
[17:26:34] <zeeshan|2> :-)
[17:26:37] <zeeshan|2> yea furry
[17:26:41] <zeeshan|2> that's the second failure pics
[17:26:46] <zeeshan|2> in the second failure
[17:26:51] <andypugh> Have you checked phase-to-case on the servo motor?
[17:26:53] <zeeshan|2> remember that big cap
[17:26:55] <zeeshan|2> that blew the f up?
[17:26:57] <zeeshan|2> that never blew up
[17:27:00] <furrywolf> andy: yes, several times
[17:27:20] <zeeshan|2> ill point this out
[17:27:20] <furrywolf> we've all been telling him that. :)
[17:27:29] <zeeshan|2> in that pic i just posted there are 2 blown caps
[17:27:46] <furrywolf> yeah, one bottom left, one top right
[17:27:57] <zeeshan|2> http://i.imgur.com/h6XW6MF.jpg?1
[17:27:57] <furrywolf> bottom middle
[17:28:01] <zeeshan|2> and here is the last blown cap
[17:28:05] <zeeshan|2> that i found
[17:28:20] <furrywolf> the problem is, it's not just the caps, it's also every single IC on the board. :P
[17:28:31] <zeeshan|2> http://i.imgur.com/DHNQJCv.jpg?1
[17:28:35] <zeeshan|2> the only other weird thing i saw visually
[17:28:37] <zeeshan|2> was the weird soldering
[17:28:41] <zeeshan|2> like the solder bubbled
[17:29:11] <skunksleep> http://electronicsam.com/images/Mazak/comu.JPG
[17:29:39] <PCW> Yeah +12 became +50 or so
[17:29:47] <zeeshan|2> skunksleep: did you notice a intermittent short
[17:29:50] <zeeshan|2> w a commutator like that
[17:29:52] <furrywolf> pcw: I suspect it became +180V.
[17:30:11] <zeeshan|2> lol
[17:30:14] <CaptHindsight> I haven't been following the discussion but did I understand correctly that the drives worked the first time. Then the system was powered down, then powered up and at the next attempt at motion the drives start popping parts?
[17:30:15] <furrywolf> pcw: since that's what the mosfets are switching
[17:30:30] <zeeshan|2> CaptHindsight: they worked fine yes
[17:30:37] <zeeshan|2> but they blew after releasing e-stop
[17:30:42] <zeeshan|2> in still state.
[17:30:43] <furrywolf> capt: immediate failure on powerup, like the damaging event happened on power down or while off
[17:31:04] <furrywolf> that's a pretty nasty looking commutator.
[17:31:34] <PCW> yes but something opened before it got that high
[17:31:35] <PCW> (180V would have exploded every IC)
[17:31:46] <zeeshan|2> haha
[17:31:59] <PCW> AMHIK
[17:32:12] <furrywolf> pcw: his fuse
[17:32:28] <Crom_> voltage regulator saved the fuse
[17:32:44] <zeeshan|2> lol
[17:32:54] <zeeshan|2> look you guys are the experts
[17:32:58] <zeeshan|2> in your honest opinion
[17:33:04] <zeeshan|2> do you think these drives are POORLY designed
[17:33:10] <zeeshan|2> would an equivalent say..
[17:33:17] <furrywolf> yes. I don't, however, know if that's the cause of this failure.
[17:33:18] <zeeshan|2> yaskawa or fancy allen bradley servo drive
[17:33:28] <zeeshan|2> take all the abuse you can throw at em
[17:33:38] <zeeshan|2> i mean i have 2 vfds on l2 too
[17:33:43] <zeeshan|2> and they haven't gotten owned
[17:33:56] <zeeshan|2> one of them is a 110vac drive too
[17:34:20] <skunksleep> I have had good luck with AMC drives
[17:34:31] <zeeshan|2> skunksleep: same model?
[17:34:34] <zeeshan|2> w/ built in ac power supply?
[17:35:13] <skunksleep> We have used a bunch
[17:35:16] <PCW> I dont think they are poorly designed (there are very many working fine) I think you either have a undetected wiring fault or motor problem
[17:35:47] * furrywolf really hates companies that grind chips
[17:35:48] <skunksleep> Agreed
[17:35:48] <jdh> I probably have 20+ at work.
[17:35:55] <zeeshan|2> i just dont understand
[17:35:57] <zeeshan|2> how a bad motor
[17:35:59] <zeeshan|2> can blow up a drive
[17:36:04] <zeeshan|2> shouldnt it have fault protection
[17:36:12] <CaptHindsight> wonder how e-stop is connected
[17:36:40] <furrywolf> your drive claims to be completely indestructable, with claims about being protected from every possible internal and external fault.
[17:36:49] <zeeshan|2> exactly
[17:36:52] <furrywolf> clearly "should", "claims", and "is" are not all the same.
[17:37:00] <andypugh> Disonnecting a stepper blows up drives quite often. Maybe the motor has a momentary open-circuit problem>
[17:37:12] <PCW> a armature short or short to ground are hard to protect against
[17:37:23] <zeeshan|2> well when you detect a voltage spike
[17:37:27] <zeeshan|2> of a certain threshold
[17:37:27] <furrywolf> capt: e-stop opens a bank of contactors that kills power to everything. each device has a separate contact set.
[17:37:32] <zeeshan|2> cant you just switch something
[17:37:42] <zeeshan|2> lol furry knows my machine so well
[17:37:44] <andypugh> Maybe it shorts as it rotates?
[17:37:46] <zeeshan|2> its engraved in his head
[17:37:50] <furrywolf> andy: we tried spinning the motor very slowly and watching the resistance, with no glitches observed.
[17:37:55] <andypugh> OK.
[17:38:00] <zeeshan|2> andypugh: the second blow up happened in disabled state
[17:38:03] <zeeshan|2> motor was not spinning
[17:38:08] <furrywolf> andy: also tried powering the motor from 12v with a 12v lamp in series, and it didn't flicker dim or bright.
[17:38:10] <zeeshan|2> infact first blow up was like that too
[17:38:17] <andypugh> Right you are. I will head out and play with my fully working machine :-)
[17:38:23] <zeeshan|2> OMG
[17:38:25] <zeeshan|2> !!
[17:38:26] <CaptHindsight> so the motors can have energy while the drive loses its power when e-stop is activated
[17:38:27] <zeeshan|2> you s o b
[17:38:29] <zeeshan|2> :-)
[17:38:39] <zeeshan|2> CaptHindsight: how
[17:38:40] <zeeshan|2> theyre at 0v
[17:38:59] <PCW> If the commutator area is full of carbon dust you might get a transient arc to ground
[17:39:25] <furrywolf> do the motors jerk slightly when the drives power up?
[17:39:41] <Crom_> I like MOV's since they help in keeping the magic smoke inside electrics
[17:39:46] <zeeshan|2> thats making me think 3 weks back
[17:40:03] <PCW> I would doubt that since the drives are not enabled
[17:40:05] <zeeshan|2> furrywolf: i'd have to say no
[17:40:15] <CaptHindsight> if I had the drives on my desk I might be able to help, remote diagnosis is difficult without very clear info at every step
[17:40:23] * LeelooMinai peeks to see if zeeshan is up to 4
[17:40:26] <PCW> no PWM untill enabled
[17:40:38] <zeeshan|2> so far the only thing that makes logical sense is
[17:40:39] <zeeshan|2> bad motor
[17:40:44] <furrywolf> capt: the drives are ugly construction, and EVERY active component has the power number ground off, even things like transistors and optos.
[17:40:46] <zeeshan|2> and overvoltage at mains
[17:41:03] <furrywolf> s/power numbers/part numbers
[17:41:14] <CaptHindsight> yes, saw that pic
[17:41:24] <zeeshan|2> PCW: do you suggest i take the motor apart
[17:41:28] <zeeshan|2> and check the commutator?
[17:41:52] <furrywolf> a complete cleaning and regreasing is always a good thing.
[17:42:07] <PCW> yes
[17:42:08] <PCW> and buy more scratch monkeys
[17:42:23] <andypugh> They may be tryng to avoid cheap clones being made in China, rather than trying to keep you from repairing.
[17:42:40] <furrywolf> but unless the drives glitch on powerup, I really don't see how a commutator problem would cause issues only during power cycling with the motor off...
[17:43:03] <furrywolf> andy: oh, I'm sure that's one of the reasons. I'm also sure the chinese know how to x-ray and deencapsulate chips.
[17:43:08] <CaptHindsight> I had a customer break a few drives and motor couplings. He swore up and down that he wasn't doing anything out of the ordinary. A few months later he fessed up to abusing the system to see what it's limits were.
[17:43:11] <LeelooMinai> That's probably the case - it's usually done so REing the design takes a bit of effort, so cloners will decide it's not worth it
[17:43:20] <zeeshan|2> CaptHindsight: trust me
[17:43:22] <zeeshan|2> im not that person
[17:43:23] <zeeshan|2> :(
[17:43:41] <zeeshan|2> ive only done one abuse
[17:43:46] <zeeshan|2> ive purposely powered up a blown drive
[17:43:50] <zeeshan|2> to find a fault
[17:43:53] <zeeshan|2> and blown the power supply in the process
[17:43:54] <zeeshan|2> :-)
[17:44:07] * LeelooMinai renames zeeshan to DriveDestroyer
[17:44:10] <furrywolf> which part blew when you powered it up?
[17:44:14] <zeeshan|2> v reg of power supply
[17:44:33] <furrywolf> which power supply, which voltage regulator? lol
[17:44:47] <zeeshan|2> http://i.imgur.com/2c8nfXd.jpg
[17:44:48] <furrywolf> or do you mean you powered it up off a small regulated supply, not off mains?
[17:44:56] <zeeshan|2> that pwoer supply
[17:45:02] <zeeshan|2> in betwen the caps
[17:45:04] <zeeshan|2> you can see 2 bolts
[17:45:07] <zeeshan|2> thats where 2 v-regs are
[17:45:14] <zeeshan|2> one of them let out the smoke
[17:45:53] <furrywolf> odd. I wouldn't expect voltage regulators there...
[17:46:01] <furrywolf> I assume no part numbers?
[17:46:05] <zeeshan|2> no it has
[17:46:06] <zeeshan|2> lemme check
[17:46:15] <CaptHindsight> where's that wiring diagram again?
[17:46:27] <furrywolf> they could be pass transistors for the shunt regulator
[17:47:46] <Crom_> looking at S1 S2 S3 on that trace... thinking that's probably a board revision
[17:47:52] <furrywolf> you're positive you're not somehow running it off 240 on e-stop? :)
[17:48:13] <furrywolf> crom: no, no, those are very important 0-ohm resistors, connecting one half of the trace to itself! :P
[17:48:13] <zeeshan|2> http://www.irf.com/product-info/datasheets/data/irfp250.pdf
[17:48:19] <mozmck> I'm think of building an alternate liveCD based on some version of *buntu 14.04 or LinuxMint 17.1 My personal options are Xubuntu, LinuxMint Mate, Ubuntu Mate, or Lubuntu; in order of preference. Any thoughts or preferences?
[17:48:26] <zeeshan|2> nm
[17:48:28] <zeeshan|2> theyre recitifers
[17:48:35] <zeeshan|2> wtf is that big thing
[17:48:37] <zeeshan|2> with 4 pins
[17:48:41] <zeeshan|2> i thought that was the bridge rectifier
[17:49:01] <CaptHindsight> mozmck: I played with them all last summer
[17:49:03] <furrywolf> they're not rectifiers. they're power mosfets, acting as pass transistors for the shunt regulator.
[17:49:20] <furrywolf> the big 4-leg thing is the bridge rectifier
[17:49:39] <CaptHindsight> mozmck: decided on Gentoo :)
[17:50:02] <mozmck> CaptHindsight: what do you think? I think any of them are a little more user friendly that wheezy - especially with some hardware.
[17:50:04] <mozmck> oh
[17:50:11] <furrywolf> do only the single red and black wires connect the top half of the board to the bottom half?
[17:50:12] <zeeshan|2> capt:
https://www.dropbox.com/s/pz1o87ru9cyhgwm/IO.PDF?dl=0 ;
https://www.dropbox.com/s/abmmue9j5bwostk/Master%20Wiring%20Diagram.pdf?dl=0
[17:50:23] <zeeshan|2> furrywolf: yes
[17:50:24] <mozmck> CaptHindsight: probably not an option for me
[17:50:32] <CaptHindsight> mozmck: I have a few still installed side by side on a test machine
[17:50:33] <zeeshan|2> the voltage at those black and red wires with it disconnected from the board
[17:50:34] <zeeshan|2> was 170VDC
[17:50:46] <zeeshan|2> keyword: was
[17:50:50] <zeeshan|2> until i decided to plug it in
[17:50:53] <zeeshan|2> to a blown board :-)
[17:50:57] <furrywolf> ... then how the fuck does a failure on the main board cause a failure of the entirely separate shunt regulator on the other board?
[17:51:02] <mozmck> CaptHindsight: I've been running the iso's in VirtualBox and testing.
[17:51:06] <CaptHindsight> mozmck: I liked the Mint version based on the old Gnome 2 branch
[17:51:33] <mozmck> CaptHindsight: I run LinuxMint 17.1 with XFCE for my main machine every day.
[17:51:33] <zeeshan|2> furrywolf: first time my CC fuse stopped more damage from happening
[17:51:44] <zeeshan|2> then i removed burned drive, removed the red and black wire
[17:51:45] <zeeshan|2> and powered it up
[17:51:51] <zeeshan|2> i measured 170vdc, ps was fine
[17:52:01] <zeeshan|2> then i plugged those black and red wires into a known board that was shorted
[17:52:11] <mozmck> CaptHindsight: that would be the Mate desktop, yes - that is probably the most polished.
[17:52:15] <zeeshan|2> and i fried that regulator chip
[17:52:19] <furrywolf> to damage the shunt regulator, seems you'd either need a failure on the main board that somehow drove the power bus negative while mains was disconnected, or you're severely overvolting the mains input...
[17:52:35] <furrywolf> or you blew the bridge rectifier
[17:52:47] <zeeshan|2> can i check? :)
[17:52:52] <furrywolf> any of the terminals on the bridge measure 0 ohms to each other?
[17:54:11] <furrywolf> that's probably what happened... you plugged in the shorted board and the bridge shorted, which fed ac to the shunt reg, which properly blew too.
[17:54:30] <furrywolf> promptly
[17:54:33] * furrywolf is tired
[17:54:40] <zeeshan|2> the bridge recitifer
[17:54:45] <zeeshan|2> has neutral going to 1 pin
[17:54:50] <zeeshan|2> and l1 going to another pin
[17:54:54] <furrywolf> yes
[17:54:56] <zeeshan|2> and the ohms between those two pins is:
[17:55:12] <zeeshan|2> 12 Mohm
[17:55:15] <furrywolf> slowly increasing? :P
[17:55:30] <furrywolf> measure along the four sides
[17:55:50] <furrywolf> the diodes in there are arranged in a square
[17:56:34] <CaptHindsight> mozmck: is there any chance of making a package making tool that works with Mint?
[17:56:52] <mozmck> package making tool?
[17:57:09] <zeeshan|2> tgheyre all in the 500 kohm + range
[17:57:10] <mozmck> since mint is based on ubuntu, I would think pbuilder would work?
[17:57:15] <zeeshan|2> most are in Mohm range
[17:57:22] <CaptHindsight> mozmck: the tools for building the packages for debian are very complex
[17:57:31] <mozmck> true
[17:57:40] <zeeshan|2> so i guess its ok
[17:57:41] <zeeshan|2> :P
[17:57:44] <CaptHindsight> is there any way to automate it?
[17:58:00] <CaptHindsight> or simplify the packaging
[17:58:19] <mozmck> well, you can just go into the debian directory and run ./configure
[17:58:30] <zeeshan|2> https://www.fairchildsemi.com/datasheets/GB/GBPC3504.pdf
[17:58:30] <cpresser> "dpkg-buildpackage"
[17:58:43] <mozmck> then go back out and run fakeroot debain/rules binary and it will build the .debs
[17:58:51] <mozmck> that works fine on Mint
[17:58:55] <furrywolf> hrmm, so bridge not obviously blown... so how the heck did you blow the shunt regulator? heh
[17:59:04] <zeeshan|2> lol i dont know
[17:59:07] <zeeshan|2> its blackened :)
[17:59:13] <CaptHindsight> other distros have simple tools , debian seems to make it some sort of right of passage if you can build packages
[17:59:47] <mozmck> once the debian files are setup it is a simple as fakeroot debian/rules binary.
[18:00:11] <mozmck> Setting the files up properly looks like it can be a pain though.
[18:00:18] <CaptHindsight> it's been a few months since I looked at it
[18:00:59] <zeeshan|2> nice
[18:01:01] <zeeshan|2> those fet's
[18:01:01] <mozmck> I looked at that once, and for making packages that can go in the distribution you start by reading about 150 pages of policy :)
[18:01:05] <zeeshan|2> i fried are only 2.8$
[18:01:10] <zeeshan|2> maybe i can repair this supply
[18:02:03] <furrywolf> don't bother trying.
[18:02:08] <zeeshan|2> why
[18:02:18] <furrywolf> if you overvolted the board, there's lots of damage you're not seeing.
[18:02:30] <zeeshan|2> its only got a few components on it
[18:02:31] <zeeshan|2> :)
[18:02:35] <zeeshan|2> on the power supply
[18:02:48] <furrywolf> what good does it do without the other board? heh
[18:02:49] <zeeshan|2> theres mov, bridge rectifier, caps
[18:02:52] <zeeshan|2> well
[18:02:59] <zeeshan|2> it means i can buy the cheaper be25a20 models
[18:03:00] <zeeshan|2> without the ac
[18:03:04] <zeeshan|2> and just swap the boards
[18:03:09] <CaptHindsight> mozmck: memleak works on RTAI, he'd be happy to build debs but last time he tried all he ended up with was a list of diffs in the final deb
[18:03:59] <CaptHindsight> mozmck: now he just likes to work on easier things than deb packaging like updating RTAI :)
[18:04:04] <zeeshan|2> http://c1.staticflickr.com/9/8617/15837511774_a05c84d6cb_h.jpg
[18:04:07] <zeeshan|2> for your viewing pleasure
[18:04:07] <zeeshan|2> :-)
[18:04:15] <mozmck> interesting. I've built debs for RTAI before, so I can probably do it again. I'll probably ping him though.
[18:04:51] <CaptHindsight> mozmck: he tried to follow sebs method for building
[18:05:07] <mozmck> hmm, I don't know what that is.
[18:05:29] <CaptHindsight> builds kernel, RTAI and linuxcnc
[18:05:47] <mozmck> I got a debian directory for a previous RTAI, modified the control and other files and built
[18:06:44] <furrywolf> that mosfet didn't just randomly blow... I can only think that even though the bridge is measuring as ok now, it's blown.
[18:08:06] <zeeshan|2> how do you check a fet
[18:08:15] <zeeshan|2> look for .7V ?
[18:09:04] <furrywolf> fets you can only easily check if they're not shorted. functionality needs to be checked out of circuit with a little test rig.
[18:09:51] <zeeshan|2> ah
[18:11:38] <furrywolf> grrrr. I need to go kill my neighbor.
[18:11:48] <zeeshan|2> why
[18:12:06] <andypugh> It’s an American tradition?
[18:12:28] <Crom_> andy very much so
[18:12:31] <zeeshan|2> haha
[18:12:37] <zeeshan|2> can you guys recommend a fairly priced
[18:12:40] <zeeshan|2> servo w/ brake
[18:12:42] <zeeshan|2> and drive combo
[18:12:45] <andypugh> How It’s Made just announced that the US makes 10 Trillion rolls of paper towel a year. I don’t believe them.
[18:12:52] <zeeshan|2> 7.5 N*m
[18:12:55] <furrywolf> part of having solar power means scheduling large loads around sunshine. we're in the middle of a storm with lots of rain, flooding, etc. he seems to have decided to draw enough power to get the inverter fan running.
[18:13:43] <cpresser> andypugh: Trillion = 10^12?
[18:13:44] <Crom_> that's toilet paper, hand towels, scott nidustrial towels, .... probably including Canada as well
[18:14:04] <cpresser> when for 300*10^6 people, that seems much
[18:15:39] <furrywolf> that's 33,000 rolls per person per year. I think they mean billion not trillion.
[18:16:43] <furrywolf> that's a bit over 91 rolls per person per day.
[18:17:17] <furrywolf> even if you use a whole lot of toilet paper, always use paper towels and napkins, etc... that's still at least a factor of 100 off.
[18:18:47] <cpresser> 33 per person per year however sounds reasonable
[18:18:48] <CaptHindsight> paper towels are nearly non-existent in China
[18:19:35] <furrywolf> 33/person/year sounds a bit low, especially when you count industrial uses.
[18:20:32] <furrywolf> according to wikipedia, just toilet paper is "Americans use an average of 23.6 rolls per capita a year."
[18:20:59] <furrywolf> so if you only use 10 rolls/year of paper towels, industrial cleaning, etc...
[18:21:10] <furrywolf> that's not unreasonable. so 10 billion, not 10 trillion.
[18:21:27] <cpresser> i found a pdf which states 46rolls/year for germans
[18:22:11] <CaptHindsight> maybe the script was written 10,000,000,000 vs 10 trillion so they just said it wrong
[18:22:32] <furrywolf> I want a washlet. if I ever can afford my own house, I'm installing one.
[18:24:03] <furrywolf> (for those unfamiliar with them, japanese toilet seats with built-in water washing features)
[18:24:20] <CaptHindsight> japanese toilets
[18:24:52] <zeeshan|2> http://i.imgur.com/oqX0gme.gifv
[18:24:56] <zeeshan|2> how did this guy survive?
[18:25:00] <CaptHindsight> sprayers, wipers, buffers...... sprayers anyway
[18:25:23] <furrywolf> generally just sprayers. heh.
[18:25:56] <zeeshan|2> does this make any sense ? 7.5 N*m = 1069 oz
[18:26:01] <CaptHindsight> he looks like a rag doll
[18:26:02] <zeeshan|2> my steppers on my lathe are bigger than this Z motor
[18:26:11] <zeeshan|2> physically theyre like 1/4 the size
[18:26:17] <zeeshan|2> and 1/4 the weight
[18:29:19] <furrywolf> how are they both bigger and 1/4 the size?
[18:29:31] <zeeshan|2> bigger as in more power powerful
[18:29:34] <zeeshan|2> 1200 oz-in apparently.
[18:30:02] <furrywolf> torque != power.
[18:30:12] <zeeshan|2> yea yea
[18:30:13] <zeeshan|2> :P
[18:30:48] <furrywolf> steppers only make their full torque when stationary, and it drops off quickly with rpm. servos keep making torque until much higher rpms.
[18:31:23] <CaptHindsight> mozmck Linux Mint Debian Edition 2, aka. "Betsy." will be a rolling release
[18:31:24] <zeeshan|2> finding a replacement motor
[18:31:26] <zeeshan|2> is a pain in the butt
[18:32:50] * furrywolf still doesn't know if it's the motor or the drive or the wiring
[18:33:06] <zeeshan|2> realistically lets think about the wiring
[18:33:16] <zeeshan|2> what can be wrong?
[18:33:36] <zeeshan|2> l2 powers a 110vac vfd
[18:33:45] <zeeshan|2> and also powers one leg of 2 of a 240vac vfd.
[18:33:48] <zeeshan|2> and also the z drive
[18:34:00] <zeeshan|2> all 3 of these things are on seperate contactors
[18:34:35] <furrywolf> wiring to motor too... and maybe control wiring, but I doubt it, since it should be sufficiently isolated.
[18:34:52] <zeeshan|2> short in tachometer?
[18:35:01] <furrywolf> you're positive the brake absolutely did not switch during the later tests?
[18:35:06] <zeeshan|2> yes
[18:35:07] <zeeshan|2> 100%
[18:35:12] <furrywolf> the tachometer generates power, not uses it, no?
[18:35:21] <zeeshan|2> it generates voltage yes
[18:35:26] <zeeshan|2> but the thing is
[18:35:30] <zeeshan|2> if you look at th eblock diagram
[18:35:37] <furrywolf> so if it's shorted, it'd just read not turning, not melt things...
[18:35:38] <zeeshan|2> tehres a crap load of high resistance resistors in series
[18:36:02] <zeeshan|2> ok
[18:37:01] <furrywolf> it could be nothing has failed, but there's some weird interaction between that drive, your motor, and your controls... like the the drive has a design issue where it fails on powerup of the motor is a certain resistance or some control signal is active...
[18:38:48] <CaptHindsight> that drive also lets you float or isolate the grounds
[18:39:26] <zeeshan|2> i have nothing better to do on a friday night
[18:39:28] <CaptHindsight> I'd have to dig into those docs but that can make power very exciting
[18:39:30] <zeeshan|2> than blow up another drive
[18:39:45] <zeeshan|2> i just want to have the best possible chance :-)
[18:39:54] <furrywolf> you can devise tests to try to find other problems...
[18:40:06] <CaptHindsight> zeeshan|2: have the link to your wiring diagram?
[18:40:07] <zeeshan|2> like? :)
[18:40:09] <CaptHindsight> I lost it
[18:40:37] <furrywolf> his wiring diagram is hard to read, and remember that there could well be wiring errors. heh.
[18:40:44] <zeeshan|2> capt:
https://www.dropbox.com/s/pz1o87ru9cyhgwm/IO.PDF?dl=0 ;
https://www.dropbox.com/s/abmmue9j5bwostk/Master%20Wiring%20Diagram.pdf?dl=0
[18:40:59] <zeeshan|2> hey!
[18:41:01] <zeeshan|2> its color coded
[18:41:16] <_methods> man machining in your garage with a beer is so much better than at work lol
[18:41:57] <CaptHindsight> those drives have two grounds COMMON (SIGNAL GND) and CHASSIS GND
[18:42:28] <zeeshan|2> yea
[18:42:33] <zeeshan|2> thesignal ground is isolated
[18:42:35] <zeeshan|2> and floating
[18:43:29] <zeeshan|2> its just a weird problem cause it worked so well :/
[18:43:31] <zeeshan|2> and now im plagued
[18:43:39] <zeeshan|2> my wiring magically didnt change!
[18:44:02] <CaptHindsight> how many power cycles did it live through?
[18:44:08] <zeeshan|2> the first time?
[18:44:11] <zeeshan|2> like 40 +
[18:44:13] <zeeshan|2> the second time
[18:44:13] <zeeshan|2> 1
[18:44:25] <CaptHindsight> what does 40 times and 1 time mean?
[18:44:34] <zeeshan|2> 40 times till first failure
[18:44:43] <zeeshan|2> 1 power cycle between the first and second failure
[18:45:07] <furrywolf> it means something got worse. :)
[18:45:14] <CaptHindsight> 40 power cycles until the first drive died?
[18:45:18] <zeeshan|2> yea
[18:45:24] <zeeshan|2> thats estimating on the low side too
[18:45:44] <zeeshan|2> it went through 5 power cycles when i was programming the vfds
[18:46:05] <zeeshan|2> you know..
[18:46:07] <zeeshan|2> the only thing i remember
[18:46:07] <furrywolf> I still don't know... working at first then stopping working makes me suspect the motor, because your wiring isn't likely to do that.
[18:46:08] <CaptHindsight> and now if you had 50 spares they would most likely all die when first powered up and motion attempted?
[18:46:11] <zeeshan|2> is programmign the spindle vfd
[18:46:13] <zeeshan|2> and these blow ups happen
[18:46:22] <zeeshan|2> CaptHindsight: 09282390!~!!!!
[18:46:26] <zeeshan|2> i told you this before
[18:46:29] <zeeshan|2> the motors never move
[18:46:33] <zeeshan|2> its on power cycling
[18:46:38] <zeeshan|2> the motors are stationary before and after
[18:46:40] <zeeshan|2> withj brake enabled
[18:46:44] <zeeshan|2> nothing moves
[18:47:02] <CaptHindsight> how is the Brake wired to the drive?
[18:47:06] <zeeshan|2> its not
[18:47:08] <zeeshan|2> its independent
[18:47:22] <furrywolf> have a current picture of your wiring, rather than the partially connected one?
[18:47:30] <zeeshan|2> i can take one
[18:48:03] <furrywolf> I don't see how the spindle could affect the servos, unless you have a serious wiring or ground fault...
[18:48:28] <dirty_d> are there any machining languages that compile to gcode that people actually use?
[18:48:53] <CaptHindsight> checking your own wiring is like proofreading, you often don't see your own mistakes
[18:49:47] <furrywolf> whnvr i reed mi own ritings it alyws leeks good!
[18:49:52] <zeeshan|2> lol
[18:50:24] <zeeshan|2> http://c4.staticflickr.com/8/7410/16272562198_ddb3410cbd_h.jpg
[18:50:37] <zeeshan|2> http://c4.staticflickr.com/8/7314/16274356077_238b826d5e_h.jpg
[18:50:49] <zeeshan|2> damn my enclosure is empty now
[18:50:50] <zeeshan|2> ;-(
[18:51:26] <Tom_itx> mine is getting full
[18:52:10] <Tom_itx> woah.. that is empty!
[18:52:15] <zeeshan|2> ;-(
[18:52:18] <CaptHindsight> so your E-Stop opens and closes the 24V positive supply to the brake coils?
[18:52:27] <zeeshan|2> no
[18:52:32] <zeeshan|2> if you look at io.pdf
[18:52:37] <zeeshan|2> at the very bottom
[18:52:42] <zeeshan|2> itll make you see what e-stop does
[18:52:55] <zeeshan|2> rather than trying to understand the mess of a master wiring diagram.pdf
[18:52:56] <zeeshan|2> :)
[18:53:15] <CaptHindsight> i don't have a copy of that
[18:53:25] <zeeshan|2> https://www.dropbox.com/s/pz1o87ru9cyhgwm/IO.PDF?dl=0
[18:54:49] <furrywolf> hrmm, that is the drive closest to the spindle vfd, if programming the spindle vfd is related in any way... but that seems unlikely.
[18:55:20] <CaptHindsight> you might be generating some nasty spikes, even negative on the 24V + rail
[18:55:49] <zeeshan|2> how is it making its way to the servo drive?
[18:56:01] <zeeshan|2> remember
[18:56:04] <zeeshan|2> the brake state did not change
[18:56:06] <zeeshan|2> during the blow up
[18:56:07] <Tom_itx> the path of least resistance
[18:56:22] <furrywolf> that'd affect all the drives, not the z drive, repeatedly.
[18:56:30] <zeeshan|2> 3 times in a row
[18:56:30] <zeeshan|2> lol
[18:57:17] <zeeshan|2> i really suspect the motor
[18:57:18] <furrywolf> other than programming the spindle vfd, did anything else change when the first one blew?
[18:57:20] <zeeshan|2> but i need to convince myself it is
[18:57:30] <zeeshan|2> yea
[18:57:31] <zeeshan|2> i added fans
[18:57:34] <zeeshan|2> well
[18:57:37] <zeeshan|2> i hooked up the neutral for the fans
[18:57:48] <zeeshan|2> but i did power cycle after that
[18:57:49] <zeeshan|2> and it was fine
[18:58:09] <zeeshan|2> the fans are being powered off l1
[18:58:59] <zeeshan|2> i wish i could somehow make the motor speak to me
[18:59:06] <zeeshan|2> "hey dumbass, im blown, can't you see!"
[18:59:26] <Tom_itx> what's the winding resistance?
[18:59:31] <Tom_itx> and to case
[18:59:41] <zeeshan|2> im gonna measure it again
[18:59:44] <zeeshan|2> with 2 diff multimeters
[18:59:54] <zeeshan|2> motor lead to case
[18:59:56] <zeeshan|2> and motor winding
[19:00:01] * LeelooMinai thinks that zeeshan|2 needs systematic plan involving at list DMM and maybe investing in cheap oscilloscope
[19:00:08] <zeeshan|2> and ill check both motor leads to casse
[19:00:10] <CaptHindsight> and with the motors in different positions
[19:00:18] <zeeshan|2> i already did that
[19:00:19] <zeeshan|2> :P
[19:00:41] <CaptHindsight> don't make me drive up there :)
[19:00:42] <Tom_itx> i ripped the commutator off my sherline by accident once and used that to figure all those wires out again
[19:00:48] <Tom_itx> works fine once again
[19:00:59] <XXCoder> zeeshan|2: whats up so far?
[19:01:03] <zeeshan|2> CaptHindsight: will you be happy wit ha video
[19:01:07] <zeeshan|2> of a bulb in series with the motor?
[19:01:09] <zeeshan|2> at 12v
[19:01:24] <CaptHindsight> then again is it warmer in Tronto than Chicago right now?
[19:01:30] <zeeshan|2> haha prolly not
[19:01:52] <anarchos2> hmm, i wonder how hard it would be to modify gmoccapy to add a button into the file selector window to run a "git pull" command, then refresh the window..
[19:01:58] <CaptHindsight> 25F right now
[19:02:27] <Tom_itx> supposed to be ~70 here tomorrow
[19:02:38] <XXCoder> zeeshan|2: hey?
[19:02:55] <CaptHindsight> only high 30's here :(
[19:03:11] <LeelooMinai> I made another baby step today and asembled the table and attached the spindle:
https://www.flickr.com/photos/100017731@N03/16272619078/
[19:03:12] <Tom_itx> pretty decent here this evening
[19:03:33] <XXCoder> LeelooMinai: nice work
[19:03:39] <jdh> looks good!
[19:03:58] <LeelooMinai> One day it will actully do something... I hope
[19:03:58] <XXCoder> I wish I knew whats wrong with my willpower
[19:04:02] <CaptHindsight> Bad, bad panda!
[19:04:06] <Tom_itx> all i see is a damn panda bear
[19:04:08] <jdh> what are the displays on the front?
[19:04:23] <CaptHindsight> she broke flicker
[19:05:06] <XXCoder> flickr sucks.
[19:05:13] <LeelooMinai> jdh: Displays from calliper-like Chinese, damn, forgot what they are called - for distance measurement on all axis
[19:05:15] <Tom_itx> imagebin
[19:05:29] <jdh> DRO?
[19:05:49] <Tom_itx> jdh i got decent numbers from the pwm now
[19:05:59] <Tom_itx> seems to be getting better
[19:06:04] <jdh> with a c6>?
[19:06:08] <Tom_itx> yes
[19:06:15] <LeelooMinai> Yes, cheap ones, for now. Here you can see one from the side:
https://www.flickr.com/photos/100017731@N03/14215648455/
[19:06:24] <Tom_itx> S10 - S5000 full 10v swing
[19:06:32] <LeelooMinai> Same "tech" as callipers basically, but longer
[19:06:37] <furrywolf> I hate flickr.
[19:06:47] * furrywolf gives up
[19:06:57] <jdh> Leeloo: just for fun or for feedback?
[19:06:57] <XXCoder> lee maybe your router can make parts for my router lol
[19:07:31] <LeelooMinai> jdh: I want to use them for the initial "aligment" etc.
[19:07:33] <furrywolf> your pegboard is way too neat.
[19:07:34] <XXCoder> mines definitely small, with longest axis of 2 feet (working space approx 1'x1'x3"
[19:07:37] <furrywolf> and empty.
[19:07:48] <jdh> eerything is way too neat
[19:08:00] <LeelooMinai> furrywolf: That's just after installing it... It's fuller now:)
[19:08:31] <LeelooMinai> btw, the pegboard is what was once cloths closet:)
[19:08:42] <jdh> clothes are overrated
[19:08:50] <zeeshan|2> hi xxcoder
[19:08:56] <LeelooMinai> Indeed - all I need is shorts and t-shirt and I can roll
[19:09:19] <LeelooMinai> And all that space reclaimed - a big win:)
[19:09:20] <furrywolf> I don't know why some societies care so much about clothes. if it's hot out, you don't need them!
[19:09:31] <XXCoder> yo
[19:09:52] <LeelooMinai> Yes, well, some people are weird like that - care about appearences
[19:09:53] <PetefromTn_> link?
[19:10:01] <zeeshan|2> one meter says 0.9 ohm, the other says 0.6 ohm (i trust this meter more)
[19:10:05] <zeeshan|2> spec says 0.452 ohm @ 20C.
[19:10:10] <XXCoder> furry I guess it was invented for soceity - like cover unplanned horns :P
[19:10:15] <zeeshan|2> its like 3C in the garage
[19:10:32] <furrywolf> meeasuing what?
[19:10:38] <furrywolf> measuring
[19:10:45] <zeeshan|2> lead to lead of motor
[19:11:34] <zeeshan|2> someone come over
[19:11:36] <zeeshan|2> and inspect my wiring :P
[19:12:13] <furrywolf> http://lostcoastoutpost.com/media/cache/29/60/296068e65a857b7a0fcdd51a0083e783.jpg if you have a minivan, don't try driving on flooded roads. really.
[19:12:15] <LeelooMinai> zeeshan seems a bit lost in those wires and what not recently:p
[19:12:18] <zeeshan|2> rofl nice
[19:12:34] <zeeshan|2> that guy needs a snout
[19:12:43] <LeelooMinai> A raft would work better there
[19:12:59] <CaptHindsight> it's the size of a boat
[19:13:01] <furrywolf> or, if you are going to drive in the flooded water, know where your air intake is.
[19:13:19] <LeelooMinai> Maybe it's water cooled
[19:13:21] <zeeshan|2> and dont stall your car inthe water
[19:13:26] <CaptHindsight> minivan with snorkel
[19:13:28] <zeeshan|2> :D
[19:13:32] <furrywolf> for example, I know my truck is good until most of the way up the front grille. however, it's not a minivan. :P
[19:13:41] <zeeshan|2> furrywolf: you said youre a delivery driver
[19:13:45] <zeeshan|2> for a courier? :P
[19:13:48] <zeeshan|2> or drugs?
[19:13:52] <zeeshan|2> :]
[19:14:09] <LeelooMinai> Regardless, that water there is probably not good for a car in general
[19:14:14] <CaptHindsight> http://ok4wd.com/media/catalog/product/cache/1/image/9df78eab33525d08d6e5fb8d27136e95/s/0/s047.png
[19:14:20] <zeeshan|2> CaptHindsight: bad ass
[19:14:21] <zeeshan|2> lol
[19:14:31] <zeeshan|2> ive been a landrover like that
[19:14:34] <zeeshan|2> *in
[19:14:36] <XXCoder> lol almost looks same as mine. might be mecury edition though
[19:14:44] <CaptHindsight> you can drive these all day long in water that deep
[19:14:56] <zeeshan|2> yea
[19:14:58] <zeeshan|2> and they're SEALED so well
[19:15:00] <zeeshan|2> water doesnt get in
[19:15:03] <XXCoder> just get car snokel
[19:15:05] <jdh> I hate those terminal strips
[19:15:12] <zeeshan|2> jdh which ones
[19:15:14] <CaptHindsight> they have filters and check vales on the vents to the diffs, gearbox, etc
[19:15:18] <jdh> Leeloos
[19:15:20] <zeeshan|2> link
[19:15:25] <zeeshan|2> i just unignored :)
[19:15:34] <XXCoder> CaptHindsight: exactly like yours lol
[19:15:34] <jdh> https://www.flickr.com/photos/100017731@N03/15837471732/in/photostream/
[19:15:43] <zeeshan|2> haha
[19:15:47] <zeeshan|2> those are all over my dad's dental chairs
[19:15:47] <PetefromTn_> my suzuki samurai's could do that..
[19:15:48] <zeeshan|2> theyre a piece of shit
[19:15:52] <LeelooMinai> zeeshan|2: Who, me? Can I make jokes about destroying drives again? :)
[19:15:52] <furrywolf> my truck had the option for a fording package, but I do not have it. on mine the axles etc are vented to the intake, but not pressurized. with the fording kit they'd be pressurized.
[19:16:02] <zeeshan|2> no you're too busy using shitty terminal strips
[19:16:04] <zeeshan|2> :]
[19:16:18] <zeeshan|2> PetefromTn_: !!1
[19:16:20] <zeeshan|2> whered you come from
[19:16:22] <zeeshan|2> i was looking for you!
[19:16:24] <XXCoder> I really need to get strips or something
[19:16:25] * LeelooMinai looks at the strips
[19:16:31] <XXCoder> finally wire up my walk sign
[19:16:32] <PetefromTn_> why?
[19:16:35] <XXCoder> see how well it works
[19:16:36] <zeeshan|2> you owe me money
[19:16:37] <jdh> your limit switches are also 90 degrees off
[19:16:40] <zeeshan|2> actually you dont
[19:16:44] <zeeshan|2> i need info from you
[19:16:45] <LeelooMinai> Well, to be honest, I did not find anything wrong with them really... They are just strips:)
[19:16:53] <zeeshan|2> i need to know what drive and motor and brake youre using
[19:16:55] <zeeshan|2> for your Z
[19:17:02] <PetefromTn_> why?
[19:17:07] <zeeshan|2> im thinking of replacing my whole shit
[19:17:08] <furrywolf> you need wire nuts!
[19:17:11] <zeeshan|2> in an attempt to solve it
[19:17:12] <PetefromTn_> jeez
[19:17:22] <zeeshan|2> i appreciate al lthe help i've gotten here
[19:17:26] <PetefromTn_> I am using the Teco motors and drives from Machmotion..
[19:17:31] <zeeshan|2> but really deduction says its the motor
[19:17:34] <jdh> MACH!
[19:17:37] <XXCoder> get clipper, hunt for wires, cut nuts off ;) now you has wire nuts :P
[19:17:43] <LeelooMinai> jdh: I made them this way kind of "consciously":)
[19:18:00] <XXCoder> furrywolf: cant use wire nuts with spades
[19:18:04] <zeeshan|2> is there a package?
[19:18:11] <zeeshan|2> or you mix and matched
[19:18:27] <PetefromTn_> http://machmotion.com/cnc-products/drives-motors/1000w-2000rpm-ac-servo-drive-and-motor.html
[19:18:46] <zeeshan|2> no brake?
[19:18:53] <XXCoder> price as configured: $0 lol
[19:19:01] <XXCoder> gonna love sites that depend on script
[19:19:02] <zeeshan|2> oh its optional
[19:19:09] <PetefromTn_> actually the Z was the 1000 RPM motor or should have been but I was impatient when they were out of stock on the one I wanted
[19:19:11] <zeeshan|2> hmm
[19:19:14] <PetefromTn_> yeah its optional
[19:19:16] <LeelooMinai> zeeshan|2: Since you had me on ingore, what do you think of investing in some cheap equipment for diagnosing this stuff, and systematically test everything one by one and in isolaition?
[19:19:18] <zeeshan|2> "continuous torque 4.78n*m"
[19:19:23] <PetefromTn_> they raised their prices CONSDERABLY
[19:19:27] <zeeshan|2> thats significantly less than the 7.5N*m rating
[19:19:27] <zeeshan|2> :(
[19:19:38] <zeeshan|2> LeelooMinai: you can do it for me
[19:19:42] <zeeshan|2> you already have the equip
[19:19:44] <zeeshan|2> :-)
[19:19:49] <LeelooMinai> At leat that would be my plan...
[19:19:51] <zeeshan|2> ill mail these to you
[19:19:57] <furrywolf> finding a motor with the right built-in brake and everything will be fun.
[19:20:08] <PetefromTn_> look at the 1000 RPM one..
[19:20:42] <PetefromTn_> http://machmotion.com/cnc-products/drives-motors/1000w-1000rpm-ac-servo-drive-and-motor.html
[19:20:45] <LeelooMinai> zeeshan|2: You did not even manage to make 100% sure that your motor is fine... No wonder you keep killing stuff:)
[19:20:53] <zeeshan|2> LeelooMinai: i did
[19:20:59] <zeeshan|2> i did all the tests except insulation test
[19:21:10] <zeeshan|2> that all these servo repairs videos do
[19:21:12] <furrywolf> measure resistance from motor coil to case while very slowly rotating motor
[19:21:36] <LeelooMinai> I wrote 100%, not 80%:)
[19:21:43] <zeeshan|2> http://machmotion.com/cnc-products/drives-motors/teco-servo-drives-and-motors/1000w-1000rpm-ac-servo-drive-and-motor.html
[19:21:44] <zeeshan|2> thats it
[19:21:48] <zeeshan|2> thats a lot of $
[19:21:50] <zeeshan|2> lol
[19:22:04] <zeeshan|2> LeelooMinai: cmon
[19:22:08] <zeeshan|2> check my drives out
[19:22:10] <zeeshan|2> you have a scope
[19:22:10] <LeelooMinai> That's kind of expensive
[19:22:12] <PetefromTn_> yeah unfortunately it is..
[19:22:27] <zeeshan|2> PetefromTn_: it might be cheaper to get this motor rebuilt
[19:22:50] <PetefromTn_> you are not even sure what the problem is really tho..
[19:22:51] <zeeshan|2> it drives me insane not knowing the problem though
[19:22:54] <zeeshan|2> i hate throwing money at shit
[19:22:58] <zeeshan|2> not knowing the end result
[19:23:07] <zeeshan|2> exactly man
[19:23:35] <LeelooMinai> zeeshan|2:If you have test equipment... You can jsut learn how to use it, no? :)
[19:23:53] <PetefromTn_> the kinds of problems you are having honestly is the MAJOR reason I went the way I did with my machine
[19:24:03] <zeeshan|2> http://www.ebay.ca/itm/SIEMENS-1HU3073-0AC01-Z-Permanent-Magnet-Motor-f-DECKEL-DC-30-FP3NC-FP4NC-/321651290675?pt=Industriemaschinen&hash=item4ae3e93233
[19:24:05] <LeelooMinai> What way?
[19:24:09] <zeeshan|2> refurbed one
[19:24:12] <zeeshan|2> its a bit slower than my motor
[19:24:15] <zeeshan|2> 1000 rpm diff.
[19:24:20] <zeeshan|2> LeelooMinai: fu
[19:24:24] <zeeshan|2> check my shit! :p
[19:24:25] <Crom_> time to go check out rat shack, to see if they have dropped prices on stuff
[19:24:37] <zeeshan|2> PetefromTn_: but they were working so good :-[
[19:24:39] <zeeshan|2> now i'm plauged
[19:24:41] <LeelooMinai> zeeshan|2: Seriously:) I would invest some time into that...
[19:24:52] <zeeshan|2> LeelooMinai: the only thing i need is i think a scope
[19:24:57] <zeeshan|2> and a insulation tester
[19:25:01] <zeeshan|2> fluke makes one
[19:25:03] <zeeshan|2> but its not cheap
[19:25:05] <zeeshan|2> its like 1200$
[19:25:13] <PetefromTn_> yeah I know man I feel sorry for you. I know how it feels to have shit blowing up all the time and not knowing what is wrong...
[19:25:16] <LeelooMinai> Sometimes one has to take few steps back and start again in systhematic fasion and better understanding
[19:25:38] <zeeshan|2> okay you know what ill do.
[19:25:40] <furrywolf> I really don't know what your problem is... I can think of reasons why it can't be any part of the system, yet it obviously is one of them. heh.
[19:25:40] <LeelooMinai> Will save you time in the long run probably
[19:25:41] <zeeshan|2> ill remove the drive
[19:25:44] <Crom_> There are the pc scopes that connect via USB
[19:25:44] <zeeshan|2> put it on my bench
[19:25:45] <jdh> you don't need an insulation tester
[19:25:54] <zeeshan|2> and power it up
[19:26:05] <zeeshan|2> using a 12v car battery
[19:26:13] <jdh> no bench PS?
[19:26:15] <zeeshan|2> ill measure the voltage between the case
[19:26:19] <furrywolf> drive needs >30v
[19:26:19] <Crom_> off to rat shack weeeeeeeeeeee
[19:26:32] <jdh> when are the rat shack close-out sales?
[19:26:35] <furrywolf> crom: maybe. many of them closed last week.
[19:26:44] <furrywolf> I haven't checked the local ones...
[19:27:01] <furrywolf> jdh: some stores are already closing out everything, from the articles I've seen.
[19:27:06] <zeeshan|2> jdh: unfortuantely nothing larger than 12v i can think of
[19:27:21] <furrywolf> how many car batteries do you have? :)
[19:27:24] <zeeshan|2> 2
[19:27:26] <zeeshan|2> :)
[19:27:33] <furrywolf> there's 24V, drive might run off that. might.
[19:27:41] <furrywolf> don't the specs say 30+?
[19:27:47] <jdh> at least you won't be lacking for current
[19:27:48] <zeeshan|2> i was thinking of powering the motor directly
[19:28:08] <furrywolf> oh, you just said you were going to put the drive on the bench and power it.
[19:28:15] <zeeshan|2> using ac mains
[19:28:31] <furrywolf> ... and power it up, using a 12v car battery
[19:28:41] <zeeshan|2> i should be more clear
[19:28:47] <zeeshan|2> its 2 seperate tests
[19:29:14] <zeeshan|2> 12v should spin the motor fairly slowly
[19:29:21] <zeeshan|2> if i have a volt meter hooked up from the chassis of the motor
[19:29:26] <zeeshan|2> and negative of the battery 12v
[19:29:34] <zeeshan|2> i should be able to pick up a short?
[19:29:42] <furrywolf> you should read nothing at all
[19:29:52] <zeeshan|2> too slow? :)
[19:30:01] <zeeshan|2> LeelooMinai: bring your scope over
[19:30:05] <zeeshan|2> pretty plz :)
[19:30:10] <furrywolf> no, there simply should be no connection from the motor windings to the case.
[19:30:24] <LeelooMinai> Buy one - it's much cheaper than all those fancy servos:)
[19:30:32] <zeeshan|2> LeelooMinai: its cheaper to borrow one
[19:30:35] <zeeshan|2> ill never use it again! :P
[19:30:45] <jdh> sure you will
[19:31:09] <LeelooMinai> But I have only one scope. Judging from your experience with drives, you would need at least 4 scopes to have a chance of succeeding:)
[19:31:13] <zeeshan|2> im almost tempted to go back to my shady ways
[19:31:17] <jdh> heh
[19:31:36] <zeeshan|2> im gonna hook up the power to the drive with no motor connected within the cnc controller
[19:31:41] <zeeshan|2> cycle it a bunch of times
[19:31:44] <zeeshan|2> if it survives
[19:31:51] <zeeshan|2> ill hook up the control side
[19:31:54] <zeeshan|2> cycle it a bunch of times
[19:32:11] <zeeshan|2> if it survives , hook up the motor
[19:32:17] <zeeshan|2> if it blows up
[19:32:18] <zeeshan|2> problem is found
[19:32:22] <zeeshan|2> 500$ to rebuild the servo
[19:32:28] <zeeshan|2> $300 to order another drive
[19:32:35] <zeeshan|2> still cheaper than buying em new
[19:32:51] <zeeshan|2> furrywolf: give me your approval
[19:34:08] <XXCoder> rebuild yourself or?
[19:34:12] <zeeshan|2> nah
[19:34:19] <zeeshan|2> send it to a company that can test and certify
[19:34:25] <zeeshan|2> so if it blows again i can get them to fix it :P
[19:34:42] <zeeshan|2> i'll tell them up front whats up
[19:34:58] <zeeshan|2> i'm gonna increase my chances of success
[19:35:02] <zeeshan|2> by moving l2 to l1
[19:35:03] <zeeshan|2> for the z drive
[19:35:32] * LeelooMinai thinks that zeeshan will manage to blow everything electonic up and will be left with the frame only
[19:36:01] <zeeshan|2> LeelooMinai: hey at least i get shit done
[19:36:06] <zeeshan|2> in style
[19:36:15] <zeeshan|2> and i can help people that are close by when in need
[19:36:18] <zeeshan|2> unlike you
[19:36:35] <zeeshan|2> :-)
[19:36:36] <LeelooMinai> You may consider moving to steam-powered machines/technology too:)
[19:36:47] <zeeshan|2> perhaps you should move to china
[19:36:54] <zeeshan|2> you buy enough chinese crap :)
[19:37:15] <XXCoder> steam powered cnc. perfect for steampunk theme :P
[19:37:16] <zeeshan|2> oh nm
[19:37:17] <zeeshan|2> i forgot
[19:37:20] <zeeshan|2> you dont step outside your house
[19:37:28] <zeeshan|2> cause the world scares the shit out of you
[19:37:31] <LeelooMinai> Well, you see, at least when something Chinese gets broken (not that it did for me:), it's cheap to replace it.
[19:37:51] <zeeshan|2> LeelooMinai: karma is a bitch when it strikes
[19:38:05] <zeeshan|2> keep it up
[19:38:29] <LeelooMinai> I just try to be reasonable as to expectations:)
[19:38:43] <LeelooMinai> Worked well for years.
[19:38:48] <zeeshan|2> good for you
[19:38:48] * furrywolf tries to help most people
[19:38:53] <zeeshan|2> furrywolf: i totally agree
[19:38:57] <zeeshan|2> you've been very helpful
[19:39:04] <zeeshan|2> that is why i need your ultimate approval now
[19:39:08] <zeeshan|2> to blow up one final drive
[19:39:09] <zeeshan|2> :-)
[19:39:23] <LeelooMinai> I help too, but in mysterious ways:p
[19:39:24] <furrywolf> I'm not sure you'll learn much...
[19:39:29] <zeeshan|2> look
[19:39:31] <zeeshan|2> when i hook u pthe motor
[19:39:32] <zeeshan|2> and it blows
[19:39:40] <zeeshan|2> it can at least deduce its the motor?
[19:40:21] <zeeshan|2> LeelooMinai: you were 0 help
[19:40:27] <zeeshan|2> sorry to break your bubble
[19:40:41] <malcom2073> Can i be less than 0 help
[19:40:41] <malcom2073> ?
[19:40:54] <XXCoder> malcom2073: yesno
[19:40:55] <LeelooMinai> zeeshan|2: I must say you are very consistent though - it seems the 4th drive's days are counted too already:)
[19:41:01] <furrywolf> swap both power and control with your X axis, perhaps?
[19:41:13] <jdh> do you have a fire extinguisher?
[19:41:31] <LeelooMinai> Or 4 fire extinguishers even:)
[19:41:41] <zeeshan|2> you know one interesting thing
[19:41:45] <zeeshan|2> the lady at amc told me
[19:41:48] <zeeshan|2> these drives are 15 years OLD
[19:41:48] <zeeshan|2> lol
[19:41:54] <jdh> that's nothing
[19:42:04] <zeeshan|2> well the caps have a certain life yea?
[19:42:17] <jdh> didn't you re-cap them when you got them?
[19:42:20] <zeeshan|2> no
[19:42:20] <furrywolf> I'd probably do more testing rather than sacrafice a drive... but I don't know what tests you can do.
[19:42:56] <furrywolf> getting a 'scope would be a good step... even if you do blow the drive, you might see something on it in the process.
[19:43:04] <furrywolf> powering the motor on the bench is another good idea.
[19:43:43] <furrywolf> power it with a light bulb in series while it's on the bench, not directly off the battery.
[19:43:57] <zeeshan|2> LeelooMinai: you're the type of person who'd walk by a dieing person
[19:44:04] <zeeshan|2> without calling 911
[19:44:11] <jdh> but, taking a pic
[19:44:25] <andypugh> That was silly, I just drilled a 1/8†hole in my finger. It could have been worse, I suppose, it could have been 3/16â€
[19:44:30] <LeelooMinai> zeeshan|2: Indeed, as I don't own a cell phone:)
[19:44:39] <jdh> wow
[19:44:49] <XXCoder> 1"
[19:44:53] <zeeshan|2> ouch andypugh
[19:44:54] <LeelooMinai> andypugh: Through-hole? :)
[19:45:07] <andypugh> No, I stopped as soon as I noticed
[19:45:18] <zeeshan|2> did you bleed? :p
[19:45:31] <zeeshan|2> or just upper skin loss
[19:45:32] * furrywolf figures you probably notice things like that pretty quickly
[19:45:35] <XXCoder> glad I didnt manage to do same even after 525 parts drilled
[19:45:40] <XXCoder> * 6 hole eah part
[19:45:45] <zeeshan|2> lol XXCoder
[19:45:56] <XXCoder> 3,150 holes
[19:46:22] <andypugh> Not at the time, I applied a bit of shop rag and kept the pressure on. But then it bled quite a lot after I had finished the job and came in and washed my hands.
[19:46:51] <LeelooMinai> andypugh: Did you at least deburr the hole?
[19:46:53] <Tom_shop> hrm
[19:46:59] <Tom_shop> GFIC sure didn't like that
[19:47:05] <zeeshan|2> what happened
[19:47:20] <andypugh> I was stupid
[19:47:30] <Tom_shop> i wired the C6 to the drive and turned on the control
[19:47:41] <Tom_shop> and popped the GFIC
[19:47:43] <XXCoder> 1,000 to go sigh thats 2 more days :P so boring
[19:47:45] <zeeshan|2> shit
[19:47:51] <zeeshan|2> i hope you didnt damage anything
[19:47:56] <Tom_shop> i thought it was supposed to be isolated
[19:48:06] <andypugh> I didn’t want to dent the headlamp shell as drilled the rivet hole, so I supported from behind with a finger. Actually that is probably worse than stupid.
[19:48:07] <Tom_shop> the motor still turns manually
[19:48:08] <LeelooMinai> I fears read that at C4
[19:48:18] <zeeshan|2> !voteban LeelooMinai
[19:48:32] <zeeshan|2> andypugh: fak
[19:48:57] <furrywolf> tom: some switching power supplies will trip gfcis, but checking everything rather closely.
[19:49:12] <LeelooMinai> zeeshan|2: Don't ban me! I will make documentary of you blowing things:)
[19:49:31] <zeeshan|2> LeelooMinai: cool
[19:49:32] <Tom_shop> no switching supply
[19:49:35] <furrywolf> umm, yes, a block of wood is a good backstop for drilling. a finger is not.
[19:49:48] <andypugh> VFD mains input filters trip non-industrial ones too. You need 30mA not 3mA GFIC for filters
[19:49:53] <LeelooMinai> Unless one has fingers like Chuck Norris
[19:49:59] <XXCoder> wood is goos
[19:50:03] <XXCoder> goos
[19:50:07] <XXCoder> dammit good
[19:50:12] <andypugh> woos id goof?
[19:52:11] <furrywolf> andy: yep. on my two supplies that will trip the gfci, it's probably the filters too. they only trip at load...
[19:52:44] <Tom_itx> zeeshan|2, just connecting the signal wires to the driver seem to trip it
[19:53:02] <furrywolf> are you creating a ground loop?
[19:53:12] <furrywolf> i.e. your signal ground runs to something else that's grounded somewhere else?
[19:53:14] <Tom_itx> maybe?
[19:53:24] <Tom_itx> yeah
[19:53:36] <Tom_itx> 2 different outlets
[19:54:05] <furrywolf> well there's your problem.
[19:54:15] <furrywolf> don't do that. :)
[19:54:18] <Tom_itx> i'll plug them in the same one and connect the GND only and see what happens
[19:54:23] <furrywolf> plug both into a power strip on one outlet
[19:55:03] <Tom_itx> i am
[19:58:11] <furrywolf> and it works now?
[19:59:27] <furrywolf> hrmm, my weather station seems to be underreporting rain... I noticed it seemed to be reading low (only reading .25"/hr, when I knew it was faster than that), so I set a 5gal bucket up outside. said bucket now has ~4" in it, while weather station says 1.55".
[19:59:45] <Tom_itx> same thing
[20:00:01] <XXCoder> think it has to be specific test but dunno
[20:00:20] <furrywolf> could be you have an actual fault, could be the filters are tripping it.
[20:00:42] <Tom_itx> i'll measure the voltage across those GNDs
[20:00:57] <XXCoder> http://www.wikihow.com/Measure-Rain
[20:00:58] <furrywolf> it still trips with both plugged into a power strip?
[20:01:12] <XXCoder> also local areas may get more rain
[20:01:39] <furrywolf> xxcoder: normally my weather station reads a little over what buckets/etc show. now it's reading less than half. methinks that when the rain stops, I'll need to get a ladder on the roof and make sure it's not full of leaves or something.
[20:02:03] <XXCoder> yeah good idea. gonna clean it sometimes
[20:02:46] <furrywolf> it's your basic cheapo self-tipping bucket.
[20:03:54] <PetefromTn_> MMmm spiedino di mare!
[20:04:07] <furrywolf> ?
[20:04:56] <XXCoder> spend more I guess?
[20:06:17] <furrywolf> I wouldn't mind a higher quality weather station, but I have no real use for it...
[20:06:42] <Tom_itx> with the drive on i get 66v across the GNDs
[20:06:56] <andypugh> PetefromTn_: Google translate gets “skewer of sea†which doesn’t make much sense to me :-)
[20:07:10] <Tom_itx> on the GND and DAC signal lines
[20:07:12] <malcom2073> seafood skewers?
[20:07:26] <andypugh> Ah, maybe.
[20:07:52] <furrywolf> tom: could be a fault, could be you have some pretty large filter caps between line and ground...
[20:08:11] <PetefromTn_> http://seafood.betterrecipes.com/uploads/photo/400x300/f/d/fd11a09b8e84c197daef59bd67278c18.jpg
[20:09:31] <andypugh> I officially like Inventor HSM, it’s the first CAM package I have found that makes paths like you might imaging doing them yourself.
[20:09:38] <andypugh> Pity I can’t afford it.
[20:09:56] <furrywolf> yeah, I need to find a good free cam program.
[20:10:27] <andypugh> I don’t think there is one
[20:10:43] <andypugh> I think that CAM is hard.
[20:10:54] <XXCoder> there is inkscape svg to nc convertor but hardly what we need
[20:10:58] <XXCoder> I need good free cam too
[20:11:08] <Tom_itx> well their GND on the drive isn't GND but i'm not sure how to connect it any other way
[20:11:42] <andypugh> Night all
[20:29:27] <PetefromTn_> Damn that was yummy! hehe
[20:44:05] <Tom_itx> zeeshan|2 you have a link to that driver you think would work for me?
[20:44:12] <Tom_itx> 120v in
[20:51:24] <_methods> good, free, and CAM are 3 words that you won't see together lol
[20:51:41] <Tom_L> ever
[20:52:43] <_methods> i need to finish my mini mill conversion cranking handles is no fun
[20:53:02] <Tom_L> git r done
[20:53:23] <_methods> yeah i'm cuttin the ballscrews and making the x and y mounting blocks this weekend
[20:53:56] <_methods> bearing blocks
[20:54:06] <_methods> got the bearings yesterday
[20:57:29] <zeeshan|2> Tom_itx: for what
[20:57:32] <zeeshan|2> amc ?
[20:57:36] <zeeshan|2> i don't recommend amc products :P
[20:57:42] <Tom_L> haha
[20:57:51] <Tom_L> no, that one you linked to me a while back
[20:57:54] <Tom_L> was that AMC?
[20:57:56] <zeeshan|2> yes
[20:57:57] <zeeshan|2> lol
[20:58:00] <Tom_L> fark
[20:58:12] <Tom_L> what was it?
[20:58:15] <zeeshan|2> where did furry go
[20:58:26] <zeeshan|2> i forget tom
[20:58:34] <Tom_L> this drive needs isolation to the DAC
[20:58:42] <Tom_L> the GND is floating
[20:58:46] <zeeshan|2> are you gonna buy a new spindle drive?
[20:58:56] <Tom_L> if i can find a cheap one
[20:58:58] <zeeshan|2> http://www.a-m-c.com/products/analog_brushless.html
[20:59:00] <zeeshan|2> take a look here
[20:59:09] <zeeshan|2> you need encoder input
[20:59:11] <zeeshan|2> for velocity loop?
[20:59:19] <Tom_L> lcnc can do that
[20:59:26] <Tom_L> the drive doesn't need to
[20:59:34] <zeeshan|2> well these guys have enc
[20:59:35] <zeeshan|2> tacho
[20:59:37] <zeeshan|2> or whatever
[20:59:46] <zeeshan|2> i guess youre trying to just run it open loop?
[20:59:51] <Tom_L> i thought you said AMC was junk?
[20:59:59] <zeeshan|2> lol
[21:00:02] <Tom_L> for now i just wanna get it going
[21:00:03] <zeeshan|2> i don't know how to feel about them na
[21:00:05] <zeeshan|2> *man
[21:00:07] <Tom_L> but i'm in no rush
[21:00:41] <Tom_L> was it BE25A20AC?
[21:00:45] <zeeshan|2> yes
[21:00:46] <zeeshan|2> but fu!!!
[21:00:51] <zeeshan|2> dont remove the stock from ebay
[21:00:51] <zeeshan|2> haha
[21:00:54] * zeeshan|2 wants 3 more
[21:01:09] <zeeshan|2> you dont need something that huge
[21:01:12] <Tom_L> is that what you were using?
[21:01:15] <zeeshan|2> yes
[21:01:29] <zeeshan|2> youre good at building power supplies
[21:01:31] <Tom_L> it converts the line ac to dc for the motor right?
[21:01:34] <zeeshan|2> yea
[21:01:42] <zeeshan|2> but it goes upto 190VAC
[21:01:42] <zeeshan|2> er
[21:01:43] <zeeshan|2> 190VDC
[21:01:47] <Tom_L> i got no more room for power supplies
[21:01:52] <zeeshan|2> if you wanna limit the current
[21:01:54] <Tom_L> but you can limit it right?
[21:01:59] <zeeshan|2> not the voltage
[21:02:03] <Tom_L> hmm
[21:02:07] <Tom_L> i need 90vdc
[21:02:10] <zeeshan|2> i might be completely wrong
[21:02:17] <zeeshan|2> but the only way i figured out you can get less vdc out
[21:02:21] <zeeshan|2> is by decreasing the vac.
[21:02:35] <zeeshan|2> you'd need to somehow drop the 120vac down to 50
[21:02:36] <zeeshan|2> er
[21:02:56] <zeeshan|2> 64 VAC
[21:03:35] <zeeshan|2> http://www.ebay.ca/itm/Advanced-Motion-Controls-Brush-Type-PWM-Servo-Amplifier-/181316559854?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item2a374f23ee
[21:03:38] <zeeshan|2> you can get this dirt cheap
[21:03:42] <zeeshan|2> if you had your own supply
[21:03:51] <zeeshan|2> the only reason i wanted an internal supply
[21:03:58] <zeeshan|2> was because 170VDC supplies are hard to find
[21:04:10] <Tom_L> no room for another supply
[21:04:23] <zeeshan|2> then you want the be25a20ac
[21:04:35] <zeeshan|2> thats smallest one with builtin supply
[21:04:58] <zeeshan|2> btw i'd like to report
[21:05:02] <zeeshan|2> that i power cycled the drive
[21:05:04] <zeeshan|2> 15 times
[21:05:06] <zeeshan|2> like CRAZY
[21:05:09] <zeeshan|2> and it hasn't blown
[21:05:15] <RyanS> chinese?
http://www.machines4u.com.au/view/advert/Morton-Fel-1440E-centre-lathe/199220/
[21:05:17] <zeeshan|2> this is with no control stuff hooked up
[21:05:18] <zeeshan|2> or motor.
[21:07:06] <zeeshan|2> ryan that looks very much chinese
[21:07:07] <zeeshan|2> lol
[21:07:50] <RyanS> too new looking ?
[21:07:51] <zeeshan|2> one thing that throws me off is that speed changer
[21:08:02] <zeeshan|2> i havent seen that on a chinese lathe before
[21:08:11] <zeeshan|2> ive seen that on say the clausing lathes
[21:08:15] <_methods> looks like a cubiq
[21:08:43] <zeeshan|2> http://www.efcomachineshop.com/images/clausing%20lathe.bmp
[21:10:48] <tjtr33> tripodkins is 'for' 3 struts, not 3 wires. becuz the 3 joints share a plane at Z0 and motion is at or above this plane. surprising default, like a hexapod, not a cable crane.
[21:11:11] <zeeshan|2> i got a question for you guys
[21:11:20] <zeeshan|2> if i hook up the tachometer, analog signal and enable signal
[21:11:24] <zeeshan|2> (control stuff for servo drive)
[21:11:28] <zeeshan|2> and not hook up the motor wires
[21:11:33] <zeeshan|2> will anything bad happen
[21:11:40] <RyanS> I was looking at this conversion
http://www.chaski.org/homemachinist/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=97255&start=36 seems crazy to gut a $3500 lathe. So would it be better. For instance with something cheaper
http://www.machines4u.com.au/view/advert/Shun-Shin-240V-Lathe-and-Stand-Taiwanese/196882/ if you are going to gut it
[21:11:54] <Tom_L> zeeshan|2 i dunno but you could hook a bulb up to it
[21:11:59] <Tom_L> for a load
[21:12:05] <zeeshan|2> wont it blow it up
[21:12:09] <zeeshan|2> cause it'll try to output a lot of voltage
[21:12:22] <Tom_L> bulbs are cheaper than motors
[21:12:24] <zeeshan|2> in the manual it says not to disconnect a motor
[21:12:32] <zeeshan|2> while enabled
[21:12:35] <Tom_L> well of course
[21:12:36] <zeeshan|2> this causes voltage spikes
[21:12:40] <zeeshan|2> im thinking if the bulb blows
[21:12:42] <Tom_L> that will cause a spike
[21:12:43] <zeeshan|2> it might cause a voltage spike
[21:12:48] <Tom_L> hmm
[21:12:55] <Tom_L> no windings in a bulb
[21:13:05] <Tom_L> i dunno
[21:13:23] <Tom_L> no coils for the voltage to collapse from
[21:13:48] <zeeshan|2> i really want to hook the control stuff up
[21:13:51] <zeeshan|2> and do a couple of power cycles
[21:13:55] <zeeshan|2> and then fhe final test
[21:13:57] <zeeshan|2> power cycle w/ motor.
[21:14:03] <zeeshan|2> actually...
[21:14:16] <zeeshan|2> if it doesnt blow up w/ the control stuff hooked up
[21:14:19] <zeeshan|2> ill just get the motor rebuilt
[21:14:31] <zeeshan|2> i dont wanna risk blowing up another drive
[21:16:15] <Tom_L> it would be like blowing a fuse
[21:17:54] <Tom_L> zeeshan|2 it _should_ be ok
[21:18:10] <zeeshan|2> i just wont enable the drive
[21:22:51] <RyanS> sexy
http://www.tradeplantequipment.com.au/detail/engineering---fabrication/lathes/madras/ge2-centre-lathe/141579 bit rusty tho
[21:33:38] <_methods> http://www.liteplacer.com/
[21:38:09] <renesis> meryan00: that nozzle looks so big
[21:38:27] <_methods> that's what she said
[21:38:30] <renesis> totally looks capable of sucking up the part sideways
[21:40:43] <renesis> thats pretty neat tho
[21:41:32] <_methods> yeah
[21:42:34] <renesis> i think they should change Affordable! to Affordable.
[21:43:10] <_methods> lots of pick and place projects right now
[21:43:18] <_methods> none of them seem to work all that great
[21:43:21] <_methods> but still cool
[21:43:31] <renesis> well give it a few years
[21:43:50] <renesis> way more useful tech than 3d printers out of wood
[21:43:57] <_methods> yeah
[21:44:07] <renesis> one of the girls at school mention makerbot sucks because it doesnt calibrate right
[21:44:17] <renesis> im like, you cant calibrate out suck
[21:44:17] <_methods> hahhaha
[21:44:37] <_methods> yeah i don't understand their obsession with auto bed leveling
[21:44:40] <_methods> it takes like 3 min
[21:44:57] <_methods> if that
[21:45:18] <_methods> i also don't understand their obsession with vases
[21:45:25] <renesis> its easy
[21:45:26] <XXCoder> vases all way down
[21:46:02] <renesis> 3d printing if useful if you need a lot of plastic changes that you dont have to weld that cant carry any load
[21:46:20] <renesis> if thats what your application needs, 3d printing is for you
[21:46:32] <XXCoder> also impossible to make otherwise stuff
[21:46:37] <_methods> it's great for a check to make sure something is going to fit up right
[21:46:46] <_methods> or just see how something will look
[21:46:47] <renesis> yeah
[21:46:51] <renesis> yup
[21:47:01] <renesis> and i have people argue with me on that
[21:47:14] <renesis> and im like, youve never tried to drill, cut, or screw into an FDM part
[21:47:21] <renesis> if you think its structurally sound
[21:47:32] <_methods> they don't know any better
[21:47:42] <renesis> and UV set is just weird
[21:47:53] <renesis> its soft unless you let it cure in UV lamps for hours, overnight
[21:48:06] <renesis> like, you the machine was $250k because its supposed to be fast
[21:48:24] <renesis> *yo
[21:48:37] <renesis> but SLA is sex
[21:48:47] <_methods> the sls stuff is getting pretty impressive
[21:48:49] <renesis> when people say im a hater, i bring up SLA
[21:49:12] <renesis> yeah theres little ones now that are pretty useful
[21:49:13] <_methods> but still it's niche for now
[21:49:21] <renesis> its a bit too hard to be great for fab
[21:49:43] <renesis> but its so fucking cool looking, and if youre smart and keep in mind its rigid as fuck, you can machine it, screw into it, etc
[21:49:54] <_methods> the work envelope is just too small on top of that
[21:50:21] <renesis> heh
[21:50:39] <renesis> for work, ive seen some huge sla parts
[21:50:45] <_methods> oh yeah?
[21:50:47] <renesis> like, bigass compression driver horns
[21:51:00] <renesis> yeah but im pretty sure the part itself cost $10k+
[21:51:00] <_methods> 10' long lol
[21:51:04] <renesis> machines gotta be huge
[21:51:08] <_methods> exactly
[21:51:35] <renesis> but compared to FDM and UV set, its just so much more useful
[21:52:09] <_methods> yeah i've had fun with my 3d printers and made some cool things
[21:52:20] <renesis> like, it doesnt feel like a melted together jumble of particles, its consistent in density throughout
[21:52:28] <_methods> but when i need a real part made i don't do it on a 3d printer lol
[21:52:45] <renesis> you have to design the part for 3d printed fab
[21:53:04] <renesis> which isnt helpful if youre trying to prototype some production or load bearing part
[21:53:05] <_methods> well you have to design any part with construction in mind
[21:53:38] <renesis> right but designing for FDM when you have something production or just higher quality in mind doesnt help because of it
[21:53:39] <_methods> but yes i see what you are saying there
[21:53:52] <_methods> you have to totally change the design for FDM
[21:53:59] <renesis> like ive been handed FDM versions of injection molded plastic parts and been told MAKE THE PROTOTYPE!
[21:54:04] <renesis> and its like, you bitches
[21:54:05] <_methods> lol
[21:54:07] <_methods> no draft
[21:54:10] <_methods> no nothing
[21:54:21] <_methods> lol
[21:54:24] <renesis> well maybe draft because injection molded but who cares
[21:54:31] <renesis> put a screw in the boss and half the part explodes
[21:54:49] <renesis> and then its like, HEY WHEN YOU MAKE ONE OF THESE FOR ME TO BUILD, MAKE 5 KTHX
[21:54:55] <knas> hello, i'm having some serious issues with mirrored y-axis motors in that one of them seemingly stops working after a little while, anyone recognizes this?
[21:55:03] <renesis> thats not really a joke thats how it would go down
[21:55:11] <_methods> overheating your driver?
[21:55:13] <_methods> binding
[21:55:23] <_methods> could be any number of things
[21:55:24] <renesis> yeah binding would be my guess
[21:55:32] <knas> binding? as in hal config?
[21:55:40] <_methods> no physically binding
[21:55:43] <_methods> on your axis
[21:55:45] <renesis> no as in your mating bits on the machine
[21:55:46] <_methods> out of alignment
[21:56:17] <knas> ah see the machine works perfectly with mach3 and has for about a year but i *always* got this issue with linuxcnc which is a damn shame because windows makes me want to cry
[21:56:24] <knas> so the hardware is fine is what i mean by that
[21:56:35] <_methods> could be your settings for steps
[21:56:40] <_methods> is it using steppers?
[21:56:46] <knas> yes
[21:57:25] <knas> it's a krmx02 home made machine
[21:57:44] <tjtr33> how are the 2 motors 'mirrored' ( are they driven by independant drives or one drive or... )
[21:58:19] <tjtr33> make that 'how are they coupled'
[21:59:17] <knas> they're driven independently on different pins with a gecko 540, the step/dir pins for both motors are set to the ystep / ydir nets but ydir is inverted for one of them
[22:00:20] <knas> so the gecko just knows them as 'y' and 'a' and they happen on different pins on my parallel port
[22:00:46] <tjtr33> is one push and one pull? same screw or 2 screws?
[22:00:52] <knas> it's weird tho 'cause it works just fine for a while then all of a sudden one of them seems to stop running
[22:01:08] <knas> no they're on different sides of the machine driving independently
[22:01:39] <jdh> why inverted?
[22:01:55] <renesis> maybe on diff sides
[22:02:01] <knas> because the motors are facing each other
[22:02:03] <knas> yes
[22:02:05] <renesis> reverse screw would be kinda cool, heh
[22:02:08] <tjtr33> if the machine doesnt crab/rack too much, can you run ok with a single motor while debugging?
[22:02:20] <knas> no it stalls like crazy, that's how i noticed it
[22:02:38] <knas> i mean i can debug it but not run it
[22:02:49] <tjtr33> ( yes it is one push and one pull, motors face each other and dir is reversevd on one )
[22:04:20] <tjtr33> oh and 2 motors ar enecessary for th eload of the slide?
[22:04:37] <zeeshan|2> no blowups so far
[22:04:38] <knas> it should be fine to connect two pairs of pins to the same nets right? i'm worried since it's not readily repeatable but seems to happen randomly after a while
[22:04:50] <knas> yeah it's a heavy machine
[22:05:50] <pcw_home> randomly after a while sounds like a electrical issue (drive levels or timing)
[22:06:00] <knas> it looks something like this (for reference)
http://static1.squarespace.com/static/5302c451e4b00ab54929f137/t/532424d0e4b074f7f883f1f2/1394877648838/
[22:06:29] <zeeshan|2> you have 2 seperate drives
[22:06:31] <zeeshan|2> for each motor?
[22:06:35] <zeeshan|2> on that axis?
[22:06:39] <tjtr33> in hal you _may_ connect 2 pins to a net, but physicaly, you may not have enuf fanout from parpor to gecko
[22:06:53] <skunksleep> Knas how is latency on the system
[22:07:10] <knas> i've had a lot of latency issues, it's an old old computer
[22:07:19] <knas> like 50,000 or something
[22:07:26] <_methods> heh
[22:07:28] <_methods> ouch
[22:07:32] <pcw_home> same PC with Mach?
[22:07:36] <knas> yupp
[22:07:42] <knas> hardware setup is identical
[22:07:46] <knas> dual boot computer
[22:08:27] <zeeshan|2> man i don't know if i should risk hooking up the motor now
[22:08:31] <tjtr33> could hal step one and miss the other due to latency. thus building a lockup?
[22:08:31] <zeeshan|2> ive deduced it down to 2 things
[22:08:33] <zeeshan|2> well 3 things.
[22:08:34] <pcw_home> maybe timing
[22:08:35] <pcw_home> is parallel port set for EPP mode in BIOS?
[22:08:43] <Tom_itx> zeeshan|2 what have you tried so far?
[22:08:45] <zeeshan|2> 1. blown drives were bad drives w/ bad caps
[22:08:50] <zeeshan|2> 2. motor is bad
[22:08:55] <zeeshan|2> 3. l1 vs l2 hook up
[22:09:03] <zeeshan|2> ive cycled it like 25 times now
[22:09:05] <zeeshan|2> it hasnt blown up
[22:09:09] <zeeshan|2> only thing left to hook up is motor
[22:09:14] <Tom_itx> the drives worked on the other axis though
[22:09:19] <zeeshan|2> yes
[22:09:21] <zeeshan|2> but i have Z drive hooked up
[22:09:23] <zeeshan|2> now.
[22:09:27] <Tom_itx> i know
[22:09:32] <Tom_itx> and that's the problem one
[22:09:42] <Tom_itx> what's the common thing?
[22:09:42] <zeeshan|2> im saying i power cycled the z drive too
[22:09:52] <Tom_itx> with no motor
[22:09:54] <zeeshan|2> yes
[22:09:58] <zeeshan|2> control stuff all hooked up
[22:10:03] <knas> the parallel port is set to EPP
[22:10:04] <renesis> you fixed it? or this is a new one
[22:10:06] <zeeshan|2> i think i should try enabling the drive
[22:10:14] <zeeshan|2> and cycling it a few times like that
[22:10:15] <Tom_itx> what if you added resistance between the motor leads?
[22:10:24] <zeeshan|2> im too afraid to
[22:10:24] <zeeshan|2> lol
[22:10:25] <Tom_itx> and the drive
[22:10:30] <Tom_itx> like a bulb
[22:10:34] <Tom_itx> largish
[22:10:38] <tjtr33> big bulb
[22:10:49] <tjtr33> driveway spot light
[22:10:52] <Tom_itx> yeah
[22:10:55] <zeeshan|2> you know guys
[22:10:58] <zeeshan|2> you can quantify :-)
[22:11:04] <zeeshan|2> 100W bulb?
[22:11:09] <zeeshan|2> 120vac 60hz?
[22:11:14] <Tom_itx> zeeshan|2, what's the motor wattage?
[22:11:19] <zeeshan|2> good point
[22:11:22] <zeeshan|2> 1200 W
[22:11:39] <Tom_itx> so 600W bulb on each lead
[22:11:46] <Tom_itx> 3phase?
[22:11:51] <zeeshan|2> no + -
[22:11:54] <zeeshan|2> brush motor
[22:12:06] <zeeshan|2> where in the world do you find a 600 w bulb
[22:12:07] <Tom_itx> use one of those 300w lamp bulbs
[22:12:08] <zeeshan|2> at 10:51 pm
[22:12:18] <Tom_itx> from one of those big spotlights
[22:12:32] <Tom_itx> i have 150 & 300w
[22:12:35] <zeeshan|2> i dont think you can be incadescent bulbs in canada nymore
[22:12:39] <zeeshan|2> they were banned last year
[22:12:43] <jdh> halogen
[22:12:50] <Tom_itx> so find something else with resistance
[22:12:54] <Tom_itx> stove element?
[22:13:05] <tjtr33> yeah
[22:13:06] <jdh> water heater
[22:13:10] <zeeshan|2> lol
[22:13:17] <Tom_itx> i'm not BS'n you
[22:13:33] <tjtr33> stove elements are great fro brakes
[22:13:39] <Tom_itx> it may be the thing that saves your drive
[22:13:52] <Tom_itx> they make drive brakes from stove elements btw
[22:13:56] <zeeshan|2> if i enable the drive
[22:13:57] <zeeshan|2> with no load
[22:13:59] <zeeshan|2> what happens
[22:14:02] <tjtr33> dont you have brake resistors anyways?
[22:14:13] <zeeshan|2> yea i do
[22:14:16] <zeeshan|2> but theyre like 10 ohms
[22:14:27] <zeeshan|2> 25 W
[22:14:50] <zeeshan|2> just fyu
[22:14:54] <zeeshan|2> when you put the drive in test mode
[22:14:57] <Tom_itx> http://tom-itx.no-ip.biz:81/~webpage/temp/resistor2.jpg
[22:14:59] <zeeshan|2> you can vary the voltage
[22:15:00] <Tom_itx> you could borrow that
[22:15:04] <zeeshan|2> w/ nothing hooked up to the motor leads
[22:15:09] <zeeshan|2> thats huge
[22:15:10] <zeeshan|2> lol
[22:15:27] <Tom_itx> http://tom-itx.no-ip.biz:81/~webpage/temp/resistor1.jpg
[22:15:32] <zeeshan|2> if the tachometer isnt moving
[22:15:33] <zeeshan|2> during enable
[22:15:46] <zeeshan|2> wouldt that mmean the servo will output 0V?
[22:15:50] <zeeshan|2> but if i try to turn the motor
[22:15:53] <zeeshan|2> it'll go crazy
[22:16:25] <zeeshan|2> thats a monster resistor
[22:16:38] <Tom_itx> it's come in handy many times
[22:16:52] <zeeshan|2> seriously its 1 of 3 things. 2 drives were bad to begin with, me moving the power from l2 to l1 fixed it
[22:16:55] <zeeshan|2> or the motor is fried
[22:17:03] <zeeshan|2> so to deduce its motor fried
[22:17:05] <zeeshan|2> i need to hook up a load
[22:17:22] <Tom_itx> so you need resistance between the motor and driver as a buffer
[22:17:33] <zeeshan|2> okay i can do that
[22:17:35] <tjtr33> while turnnig motor and tacho, the internal vel loop will drive. as soon as you stop turning the internal loop will be satisfied and stop driving. so a dummy loa dis good.
[22:17:51] <Tom_itx> but it needs to carry the normal motor load
[22:18:11] <tjtr33> yes,
[22:18:15] <Tom_itx> and if it shorts it will get rather hot but save the drive
[22:18:17] <tjtr33> (- , )
[22:18:35] <zeeshan|2> what size resistor can i put in series
[22:18:42] <zeeshan|2> if i assume worse case
[22:18:47] <zeeshan|2> 12.5A max output of drive
[22:18:51] <zeeshan|2> @ 190VDC
[22:19:11] <XXCoder> add a fuse?
[22:19:18] <XXCoder> one that blows before it would damage drive
[22:19:43] <zeeshan|2> v=ir => R= V / I = 15.2 ohm
[22:19:51] <zeeshan|2> so if i put like a 10 ohm resistor
[22:19:51] <XXCoder> find one which would allow motor to work but blows before it would damage motor
[22:19:59] <zeeshan|2> it'll still allow enough current to pass through to drive the motor?
[22:20:14] <zeeshan|2> XXCoder: i need to simulate a motor load
[22:20:17] <zeeshan|2> i might premature blow the fuse
[22:20:23] <XXCoder> oh
[22:20:28] <XXCoder> no idea on that
[22:20:52] <tjtr33> does coil resistance give a clue?
[22:20:59] <zeeshan|2> nahh
[22:21:01] <tjtr33> likley pretty low right?
[22:21:02] <zeeshan|2> 0.6 ohm pretty much
[22:21:08] <zeeshan|2> through out the rotation
[22:21:17] <zeeshan|2> spec is .45 ohm @ 20c
[22:21:27] <zeeshan|2> it will be higher cause garage is cold
[22:21:34] <tjtr33> and coil current rating?
[22:21:39] <zeeshan|2> 15.3A
[22:21:42] <Tom_itx> 10 ohm but how many watt?
[22:21:51] <zeeshan|2> biggest one igot is
[22:21:55] <witnit_> what happens when you do an AC check from machine to earth?
[22:22:01] <zeeshan|2> 50 watt
[22:22:21] <zeeshan|2> lemme check
[22:22:29] <zeeshan|2> you just wanna see from mains to earth
[22:22:35] <witnit_> just the machine body
[22:22:39] <witnit_> the frame
[22:22:40] <zeeshan|2> so l1 to frame
[22:22:41] <zeeshan|2> ok
[22:22:42] <witnit_> to earth ground
[22:22:43] <zeeshan|2> and l2
[22:22:50] <Tom_itx> zeeshan|2 that's what was the issue with my drive
[22:22:56] <zeeshan|2> Tom_itx: what?
[22:22:57] <Tom_itx> it floated the gnd
[22:23:05] <zeeshan|2> and it fried?
[22:23:06] <witnit_> machine frame to the actual earth
[22:23:08] <Tom_itx> it won't work witout some isolation
[22:23:16] <Tom_itx> no i didn't cook anything
[22:23:18] <zeeshan|2> witnit: its 0 ohms
[22:23:37] <Tom_itx> good
[22:24:13] <witnit_> anything is worth check now i suppose :)
[22:24:29] <zeeshan|2> im just trying to make a decision
[22:24:36] <zeeshan|2> blindly get the motor rebuilt
[22:24:41] <zeeshan|2> or risk burning the drive again
[22:24:42] <zeeshan|2> :)
[22:24:51] <Tom_itx> put resistance between it
[22:24:52] <witnit_> do some research on that motor model
[22:24:58] <witnit_> you may find some forums on it
[22:25:00] <zeeshan|2> i have all the specs for it
[22:25:03] <zeeshan|2> its a very old motor
[22:25:08] <Tom_itx> if it's a bad motor it won't go anyway but you'll save the drive
[22:25:11] <witnit_> whats the model?
[22:25:25] <zeeshan|2> 1hu3 073-0AF01
[22:25:28] <zeeshan|2> you wont find much about it online
[22:25:33] <zeeshan|2> its all in german
[22:27:54] <zeeshan|2> http://www.plccenter.ca/en-CA/Buy/SIEMENS/1HU30730AF01Z?reload=1&redirect=true
[22:27:57] <zeeshan|2> 5k new
[22:27:58] <zeeshan|2> lol
[22:28:12] <tjtr33> a small electric stove element is near 1000W,
[22:28:13] <tjtr33> you do the math here: my _guess_ is the 190V drops to near 30 thru the load, and the 15amp peak at .45ohm means 500watts. so the stove element is a suitable dummy load (YMMV)
[22:28:44] <Tom_itx> or a suitable buffer
[22:29:02] <tjtr33> 74xx ? :)
[22:29:14] <tjtr33> dunno what you mean by buffer
[22:29:21] <zeeshan|2> well guys
[22:29:25] <zeeshan|2> i dont think its my power distribution wiring
[22:29:26] <zeeshan|2> cause if it was
[22:29:28] <Tom_itx> put it in series with the motor
[22:29:29] <zeeshan|2> it shoulda blown by now
[22:29:43] <Tom_itx> if the motor shorts it won't blow the drive, it will heat the element
[22:29:44] <tjtr33> Tom_itx, yes a series load with motor, yes
[22:29:54] <zeeshan|2> yes
[22:29:56] <zeeshan|2> but how many ohms?
[22:30:06] <Tom_itx> just try one dude
[22:30:09] <witnit_> zeeshan can you list every wire attached to the amp?
[22:31:22] <zeeshan|2> AC -> L1 , N, earth. Control-> enable from 7i77,common between signal ground of drive and 7i77, analog+, analog- , tach-. tach+
[22:31:30] <zeeshan|2> thats all that is connected right now
[22:31:34] <zeeshan|2> it's missing motor + and -
[22:31:52] <witnit_> you have an encoder for this axis?
[22:32:02] <zeeshan|2> yes but that interfaces directly with 7i77
[22:32:05] <zeeshan|2> since it is an absolute encoder
[22:32:19] <witnit_> can you ditch the tach? and test with low amps?
[22:32:29] <witnit_> just an cheap drive lying around
[22:32:31] <zeeshan|2> ditch it how
[22:32:38] <witnit_> just take it out of the loop
[22:32:48] <zeeshan|2> yea i can do that
[22:33:05] <witnit_> i mean, you shouldnt really need a tach
[22:33:13] <Connor> anyone here know anything about plumping ?
[22:33:14] <zeeshan|2> what i can also do
[22:33:18] <zeeshan|2> is current limit the drive.
[22:33:22] <zeeshan|2> so it doesnt push out 12.5A
[22:33:26] <Tom_itx> Connor it leaks when it freezes
[22:33:27] <zeeshan|2> i can limit it down to 1 A
[22:33:38] <witnit_> if you can eliminate as much as possible and just get it working then add pieces and watch for problems
[22:33:57] <zeeshan|2> witnit: thats what ive been trying to do :P
[22:34:07] <Tom_itx> Connor what's the problem
[22:34:47] <tjtr33> zeeshan|2, dc brushed motor? did you ohm between the brushes & turn slow & look for shorts?
[22:34:47] <Connor> Trying to figure out how to replumb something.. it's galvanized.. replacing with PVC..
[22:35:00] <Connor> http://www.ivdc.com/cnc/IMG_2281.JPG
[22:35:03] <Connor> My Kitchen.
[22:35:09] <zeeshan|2> tjtr33: yes dc brush
[22:35:15] <tjtr33> zeeshan|2, (or use old school 'growler' on armature? )
[22:35:17] <zeeshan|2> i tried to turn slowly and look for shorts
[22:35:20] <Connor> I have a floor again... which makes this harder...
[22:35:32] <Tom_itx> what about copper?
[22:35:42] <Connor> For the drain ?
[22:35:55] <Tom_itx> oh you're changing the drain?
[22:35:59] <Connor> Yea.
[22:36:14] <zeeshan|2> wheres the kitchen!
[22:36:15] <Tom_itx> is that still exposed?
[22:36:17] <zeeshan|2> i see a gaping hole
[22:36:27] <Connor> The wall part is.. the floor isn't
[22:36:38] <Tom_itx> why pvc?
[22:36:46] <Connor> Floor has been re-installed.. I'll have to cut it right above the 45
[22:37:19] <zeeshan|2> tjtr33: i have the motor on the axis
[22:37:21] <zeeshan|2> and i disable brake
[22:37:21] <Tom_itx> is that 1.25 or 1.5?
[22:37:30] <zeeshan|2> and use a jack to stop it from falling
[22:37:34] <zeeshan|2> then i turn the pulley to lift the table
[22:37:36] <zeeshan|2> by hand
[22:37:50] <zeeshan|2> its a bit unreliable cause if i move the pulle ytoo fast
[22:37:53] <zeeshan|2> it'll go to infinite ohms
[22:38:06] <Tom_itx> Connor what's the p trap for?
[22:38:11] <Connor> Galvanized pipe has a 50 year life span. It starts corroding on the inside and gets flaky.. and constricts.. House built in 1960's. I have NO idea how old that pipe is, but I've had major slow drain issues and Liquid plumper doesn't help
[22:38:25] <Connor> and Snaking galvanized is almost impossible.
[22:38:41] <zeeshan|2> connor i dont see the prob?
[22:38:43] <Tom_itx> i redid my whole house
[22:38:44] <Connor> I have another sink on the other side.. but, that was part of my question.. WTF is there a P-Trape in the wall.
[22:38:44] <zeeshan|2> its all pipe thread
[22:38:50] <zeeshan|2> just work with pvc
[22:39:20] <Tom_itx> Connor is the P trap capped off?
[22:39:25] <Tom_itx> not used
[22:39:41] <Connor> No, that leads to the sink on the other side. Which has a Trap on it too.
[22:39:55] <zeeshan|2> dual p trap
[22:39:55] <zeeshan|2> nice
[22:39:58] <Connor> I'm thinking that was done because of venting.. but, it makes not sense to me..
[22:40:17] <Tom_itx> it would be easier to tap into it above that and replace that 6" piece of pipe and start there
[22:40:26] <Connor> except for, the sink on the other side is RARELY if EVEY (read NEVER) used.
[22:40:27] <Tom_itx> make the P trap plastic too
[22:41:06] <Connor> So maybe they did the Double trap to help with sewer gas?
[22:41:17] <Tom_itx> i doubt it
[22:41:26] <Tom_itx> they probably didn't know it was there
[22:41:29] <tjtr33> zeeshan|2, take motor off axis, you got a problem big enuf to look at closeley & well lit up. a small dc supply or battery and a bulb across brushes would show opens (no light) and shorts(brighter light) when rotated
[22:41:31] <zeeshan|2> http://images.meredith.com/diy/images/2009/02/p_SCP_214_03.jpg
[22:41:33] <zeeshan|2> this is how it is normally
[22:42:03] <Tom_itx> Connor if there's a trap on the other side, i'd get rid of that one
[22:42:04] <Connor> Yes. and it has a trap under the sink on the other side.. and you can see the vent too..
[22:42:15] <zeeshan|2> tjtr33: sorry im a bit confused.
[22:42:24] <Tom_itx> is that pipe vented at the top?
[22:42:24] <zeeshan|2> if i connect a small dc supply to the motor leads
[22:42:26] <zeeshan|2> itll spin
[22:42:30] <Connor> next question.. venting..
[22:42:38] <Tom_itx> you need it
[22:42:50] <skunksleep> Agreed
[22:42:50] <Connor> is the 2nd sink vented ?
[22:42:53] <tjtr33> zeeshan|2, a 9 v batter wont turn a 1.2kW motor
[22:43:01] <zeeshan|2> okay so youre saying
[22:43:05] <zeeshan|2> connect the battery to the motor leads
[22:43:05] <Connor> or do I need to go up and over to the vent pipe
[22:43:06] <zeeshan|2> w/ the bulb
[22:43:06] <Tom_itx> the main pipe needs the vent
[22:43:09] <zeeshan|2> then manually turn it
[22:43:17] <zeeshan|2> and watch for shorts
[22:43:28] <zeeshan|2> okay ill do that
[22:43:37] <Connor> PetefromTn_: My Kitchen
http://www.ivdc.com/cnc/IMG_2281.JPG
[22:43:40] <Tom_itx> Connor, if that pipe vents thru the roof that should be enough
[22:43:43] <zeeshan|2> if i dont find anything.. then? :-)
[22:44:05] <PetefromTn_> looks like it's kinda missing a floor?
[22:44:07] <Connor> Well... it runs through the roof.. which is now covered... by the add on..
[22:44:16] <zeeshan|2> you guys have interestring houses thre
[22:44:20] <zeeshan|2> no basement is so weird :)
[22:44:21] <Connor> PetefromTn_: It was. Not now.. but talking about plumbing..
[22:44:34] <Tom_itx> covered?
[22:44:39] <tjtr33> zeeshan|2, then the motor windings are as safe as you can determine with those tests, it aint absolute, its just what you can do
[22:44:40] <Tom_itx> it still vents though right?
[22:44:46] <Connor> Yes. Still vents
[22:44:57] <Tom_itx> if it floods it will spill over wherever it vents
[22:45:09] <zeeshan|2> tjtr33: my only concern is when i move around the motor
[22:45:09] <Tom_itx> that's why it should go thru the roof
[22:45:12] <zeeshan|2> maybe the carbon moves around
[22:45:15] <zeeshan|2> and it might not short then :P
[22:45:22] <RyanS> so what do most of you see as the appeal of home cnc, the 'fun' and tech challenge of doing the conversion? Because I don't see it has that useful unless you are running multiple copies ofparts
[22:45:23] <PetefromTn_> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0uhiCQ0_Qqo THis is awesome...
[22:45:27] <Connor> I could put one of those back flow vent thingies on it.
[22:45:34] <Tom_itx> they seldom have that much back pressure though
[22:45:42] <Tom_itx> check valve
[22:45:44] <zeeshan|2> RyanS: how about making something complex?
[22:45:51] <Tom_itx> i had to put one of those above my kitchen sink
[22:45:53] <tjtr33> zeeshan|2, you got loose brushes? take care of any obvious problem, then tackle whats left
[22:45:59] <Connor> that would have to have a hell of allot of back pressure to push it up 8' or more.
[22:46:06] <zeeshan|2> tjtr33: if i open it
[22:46:08] <zeeshan|2> will it be obvious?
[22:46:12] <zeeshan|2> that something is wrong
[22:46:14] <Tom_itx> just saying, that's how it's done is all
[22:46:21] <Connor> I just don't understand the P trap in the wall.. never seen that before.
[22:46:26] <Tom_itx> not that it would ever realistically happen
[22:46:35] <Tom_itx> it doesn't need to be there
[22:46:43] <Tom_itx> somebody didn't see it and added another one
[22:47:04] <Connor> maybe they needed a 90 and that's all they had on the truck at the time... ?
[22:47:06] <Tom_itx> or maybe it was repurposed
[22:47:31] <Connor> Hmm.. Dishwasher maybe ?
[22:47:34] <tjtr33> zeeshan|2, you know what a brush should look like? what the rotor should look like down the brush hole? lotsa web tutors and youtube vids on that stuff
[22:47:39] <Tom_itx> cut that 6" section above the p trap and get rid of the trap
[22:47:48] <tjtr33> zeeshan|2, no put down, just dunno your background
[22:47:49] <Tom_itx> start with plastic there
[22:47:52] <zeeshan|2> tjtr33: does it look like an alterantor? :)
[22:47:58] <RyanS> zeesh, well , I don't know how accurate on a home machine
[22:48:07] <Connor> It's all coming out.. the only thing that'll stay is the vent pipe..
[22:48:16] <Tom_itx> ok
[22:48:25] <Tom_itx> well you don't need that p trap
[22:48:27] <zeeshan|2> http://www.aeroelectric.com/articles/Alternators/UA/400A_Commutator.jpg
[22:48:30] <tjtr33> zeeshan|2, not mine, my alternators aint brushed
[22:48:32] <zeeshan|2> this is what you find in an alternator
[22:48:33] <zeeshan|2> a small version
[22:48:42] <zeeshan|2> http://i304.photobucket.com/albums/nn164/sirepair/40AmpAltRebuild/P0005327.jpg
[22:48:45] <Connor> I was just trying to figure out If I need to run a vent over to the 2nd sink since it'll be below the primary.
[22:48:46] <zeeshan|2> better pic
[22:48:56] <Tom_itx> nope i don't think so
[22:49:02] <Tom_itx> not if that pipe is vented
[22:49:42] <zeeshan|2> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OVGWiUq7RWU
[22:49:43] <Connor> So.. 90 degree off, into a Sane-T with another Sane-T above for the primary sink.
[22:50:12] <Tom_itx> or a a single cross
[22:50:16] <zeeshan|2> ah
[22:50:17] <Connor> I may have to 90 degree down and then 90 to right if I don't have enough clearance.
[22:50:20] <Tom_itx> the 2 Tee probably is a better approach
[22:50:48] <Tom_itx> you're supposed to use sweeping ell's too
[22:50:53] <Tom_itx> if there's room
[22:50:54] <Connor> the smaller sink is below, and brick wall on other side.. no way I'm going to try to raise it.
[22:51:08] <Connor> Hmm. okay.
[22:51:23] <Tom_itx> one place on mine.. there wasn't room for it
[22:51:24] <Connor> 2" Sweeping 90's are not that large.
[22:51:37] <Tom_itx> no but they take more room where the floor is
[22:51:44] <Tom_itx> it probably won't fit in there
[22:51:55] <zeeshan|2> man
[22:51:57] <zeeshan|2> they look simple inside
[22:51:59] <Tom_itx> wtf is that bent pipe going into the side under the floor?
[22:52:04] <zeeshan|2> a lot simpler than an alternator
[22:52:05] <zeeshan|2> lol
[22:52:08] <zeeshan|2> well almost the same
[22:52:27] <tjtr33> zeeshan|2, last vid is correct. but lots of that can be done by inspection thru the brush slot. did you pull the rotor out already? i do not suggest that.
[22:52:32] <Connor> That's a rubber house with a saddle.. was for the damn Clothes Washer..
[22:52:39] <Connor> hose.. not house.
[22:52:55] <zeeshan|2> brush slot?
[22:52:59] <zeeshan|2> i havent taken it apart
[22:53:01] <Tom_itx> that goes away
[22:53:02] <zeeshan|2> im going to after i do that test
[22:53:05] <zeeshan|2> you suggested
[22:53:12] <Connor> Yup. Clothes washer has been moved.
[22:53:22] <Tom_itx> you need a P trap on that if it stays
[22:53:37] <Tom_itx> and pipe over to the washer and put it there
[22:54:00] <zeeshan|2> where is this brush slot!
[22:54:10] <Connor> Yea. It doesn't. Clothes washer in the 1/2 bath now.. (which is now just a laundry room)
[22:54:15] <tjtr33> under the brush cap
[22:54:23] <zeeshan|2> dont you have to pull the 4 bolts
[22:54:27] <zeeshan|2> and remove the front plate first?
[22:54:38] <Connor> I'll put that Y back in with a clean out... right at the wall..
[22:54:43] <tjtr33> zeeshan|2, post pix of your motor
[22:54:46] <zeeshan|2> sec.
[22:54:48] <Tom_itx> zeeshan|2, there's under my house:
http://tom-itx.no-ip.biz:81/~webpage/house/7.jpg
[22:54:58] <zeeshan|2> Tom_itx: creepy
[22:55:06] <Tom_itx> http://tom-itx.no-ip.biz:81/~webpage/house/11.jpg
[22:55:10] <Tom_itx> it's all finished now
[22:56:02] <Connor> I'll need two Fernco couplers.. one for the PVC to galvanized for the vent.. and one for the connection to the main pipe.. which I don't have picture of..
[22:56:07] <Tom_itx> i dug it out with a shovel:
http://tom-itx.no-ip.biz:81/~webpage/house/2.jpg
[22:56:37] <Tom_itx> Connor, i just used rubber bands on my main one until i replaced the whole thing
[22:56:59] <Connor> http://www.homedepot.com/p/Fernco-2-in-x-2-in-DWV-Flexible-PVC-Coupling-P1056-22/100096490?quantity=2
[22:57:03] <Connor> Those ?
[22:57:05] <Tom_itx> http://tom-itx.no-ip.biz:81/~webpage/house/drain2.jpg
[22:57:12] <Connor> That's a Fernco.
[22:57:30] * furrywolf flops over exhausted
[22:57:38] <tjtr33> zeeshan|2, generic brusheddc motor
http://www.designworldonline.com/uploads/Imagegallery/cutaway-view-of-a-typical-brushed-dc-motor.jpg
[22:57:39] <Tom_itx> mine had a metal band around it but yes
[22:58:59] <zeeshan|2> tjtr33: the brush is in the back?
[22:59:05] <furrywolf> grrrr. and my internet is in the mood not to work tonight.
[22:59:07] <zeeshan|2> where would the pulley go in that motor
[22:59:11] <furrywolf> can't even check email.
[22:59:16] <zeeshan|2> furrywolf: no explosions sir!
[22:59:22] <zeeshan|2> _yet_
[22:59:26] <furrywolf> what did you test?
[22:59:32] <zeeshan|2> hooked up control stuff
[22:59:39] <zeeshan|2> and ac in the enclosure
[22:59:42] <zeeshan|2> cycled it like 25 times
[22:59:42] <Tom_itx> zeeshan|2, the before and after:
http://tom-itx.no-ip.biz:81/~webpage/house/2.jpg http://tom-itx.no-ip.biz:81/~webpage/house/yard1.jpg
[22:59:43] <zeeshan|2> no blow ups
[22:59:56] <furrywolf> so you need to take the motor apart.
[22:59:58] <renesis> how come you guys dont have fences
[23:00:17] <zeeshan|2> tjtr33:
http://c4.staticflickr.com/8/7453/16459590891_bcb5133edb_b.jpg
[23:00:38] <Connor> Tom_itx: 2" PVC Right ?
[23:01:19] <furrywolf> pull the motor and run it on the bench like you said. do the light bulb and car battery test, while checking for voltage on the housing, tach, and brake wiring.
[23:01:38] <zeeshan|2> furrywolf: tjtr33 suggested something a bit easier to do
[23:01:40] <zeeshan|2> hook up 12v
[23:01:43] <zeeshan|2> w/ bulb
[23:01:45] <zeeshan|2> and spin by hand
[23:01:51] <zeeshan|2> cause it wont turn , not enough voltage
[23:02:00] <zeeshan|2> http://i.ebayimg.com/00/s/NzUwWDEwMDA=/$(KGrHqN,!rEFBkcUmdhTBQ,w9ZJmcg~~60_12.JPG?set_id=880000500F
[23:02:04] <zeeshan|2> better pic of similar motor tjtr33
[23:02:24] <zeeshan|2> http://i.ebayimg.com/t/SIEMENS-DUBAI-STOCK-MOTOR1HU3-071-1HU3071-1-HU3071-0AF01-Z-1HU30710AF01Z-1HU1052-/00/s/NzUwWDEwMDA=/$T2eC16J,!)0E9s37F,2HBQ,w9,Vqh!~~60_57.JPG
[23:02:33] <Connor> I HATE plumbing
[23:02:34] <zeeshan|2> sigh @ link
[23:02:47] <furrywolf> spinning by hand works too.
[23:03:03] <zeeshan|2> i wanna take it apart
[23:03:05] <zeeshan|2> and clean the brushes
[23:03:07] <zeeshan|2> and commutator
[23:03:08] <tjtr33> zeeshan|2, i dont think thats a brushed dc motor, lemme scroll back and see if you said that was true ( days!)
[23:03:09] <furrywolf> ... that's an ugly url.
[23:03:16] <furrywolf> don't take it apart until after testing
[23:03:22] <zeeshan|2> tjtr33: its brushed dc
[23:03:29] <tjtr33> furrywolf, k
[23:03:48] <zeeshan|2> those things that look like you can put a flat head
[23:04:03] <zeeshan|2> is that the brush slot
[23:04:19] <zeeshan|2> theyre on the edges of the motor
[23:04:21] <furrywolf> you want to identify that there's a problem, rather than taking it apart, finding nothing wrong, cleaning it up, putting it back together, and not being sure you accomplished anything.
[23:04:32] <zeeshan|2> furrywolf: internet says
[23:04:38] <zeeshan|2> that when carbon dust packs in commutator
[23:04:40] <XXCoder> amazing.
http://phys.org/news/2015-02-d-printers-human-body.html
[23:04:43] <Tom_itx> Connor yes 2"
[23:04:46] <zeeshan|2> its #1 failure of pmdc motor
[23:04:47] <Tom_itx> on the main part
[23:04:51] <Connor> http://www.oldhouseweb.com/how-to-advice/replacing-galvanized-plumbing.shtml
[23:04:54] <zeeshan|2> so i figure it'd be good maintenance to do
[23:05:01] <Connor> and the reason for re-plumbing...
[23:05:01] <furrywolf> yes, but that doesn't tend to result in failure of the drive too. especially on a motor that's not turning.
[23:05:13] <zeeshan|2> what does it do?
[23:05:17] <zeeshan|2> erractic operation?
[23:05:18] <furrywolf> you really want to try to identify a problem before doing any work on it.
[23:05:25] <zeeshan|2> yea i know what youre saying
[23:05:28] <zeeshan|2> if its a problem with the windings
[23:05:29] <furrywolf> erratic operation, or simply doesn't run. no damage to controller.
[23:05:32] <zeeshan|2> theres no poijnt in cleaning the brushes
[23:05:56] <furrywolf> no, that's not what I'm saying. I'm saying there's few things more frustrating than not knowing if you actually fixed anything or not.
[23:06:01] <zeeshan|2> :)
[23:06:07] <zeeshan|2> well its gOOD so far!!
[23:06:09] <zeeshan|2> and im happy!
[23:06:17] <zeeshan|2> i was so aggressive on the power cycle too
[23:06:24] <zeeshan|2> i rapidly switched them on and off
[23:06:26] <zeeshan|2> like a machine gun
[23:06:27] <zeeshan|2> abuse
[23:06:31] <furrywolf> you really want to be able to say it was blowing because THIS was happening.
[23:06:32] <XXCoder> you found the cause?
[23:06:35] <zeeshan|2> i varied the time
[23:06:48] <zeeshan|2> XXCoder: likely its something to do with moving from l2 to l1 for supply
[23:06:53] <zeeshan|2> or they were bad drives to begin with
[23:06:56] <zeeshan|2> or its the motor
[23:06:58] <zeeshan|2> trying to narrow it down
[23:07:03] <XXCoder> ok
[23:07:25] <zeeshan|2> if it was just a capacitor failure
[23:07:28] <zeeshan|2> that caused all this damage to the drive
[23:07:31] <zeeshan|2> im gonna be so mad
[23:07:42] <furrywolf> ... THREE drives. they don't all have bad capacitors.
[23:07:49] <zeeshan|2> who knows why the guy sold em!
[23:07:49] <zeeshan|2> :P
[23:08:08] <zeeshan|2> im trying to be optimistic :)
[23:08:15] <furrywolf> I find it pretty unlikely that carbon buildup is the problem.
[23:08:25] <Tom_itx> zeeshan|2 were they guaranteed working?
[23:08:28] <furrywolf> if it blew while operating, maybe, but not disabled...
[23:08:41] <zeeshan|2> Tom_itx: yea machine was used till the last day
[23:08:44] <zeeshan|2> till he closed shop
[23:08:47] <zeeshan|2> then it sat for 5 years
[23:08:59] <Tom_itx> maybe some of the caps dried out
[23:09:05] <Tom_itx> electrolytics will do that
[23:09:09] <zeeshan|2> oh therse drives arent from the same machine
[23:09:15] <Tom_itx> mkay
[23:09:26] <zeeshan|2> but i was saying earlier that amc said theyre 15 years old
[23:09:26] <Tom_itx> i was referring to the drives
[23:09:40] <zeeshan|2> and y es they said they're in working condition
[23:09:47] <zeeshan|2> but the guy doesnt exist on ebay anymore
[23:09:54] <zeeshan|2> closed his account
[23:09:58] <furrywolf> yes, you had three bad drives, all with the exact same latent defect, and by coincidence happened to be the three you plugged into Z, right?
[23:09:59] <zeeshan|2> which is fishy.
[23:10:04] <Tom_itx> zeeshan|2 wonder why?
[23:10:35] <zeeshan|2> furrywolf: to be honest with you
[23:10:43] <zeeshan|2> all 3 drives showed explicit cap damage
[23:11:03] <zeeshan|2> okay less arguing
[23:11:06] <zeeshan|2> more work
[23:11:13] <tjtr33> furrywolf, i was asking zee to check for shorts, using a battery across brushes and a light or ohmmeter. thats why we were looking at brush caps
[23:11:15] <furrywolf> go pull motor
[23:11:30] <zeeshan|2> where are the brush caps!! :P
[23:11:44] <furrywolf> tjtr: yes, I was the one who originally suggested running it off 12v with a light bulb in series.
[23:12:00] <tjtr33> i think the big straight slot screws on the corners of the motor's finned end
[23:12:04] <furrywolf> zeeshan: the brush caps are the screw in things with a slotted screwdriver slot
[23:12:17] <furrywolf> but, again, I would really advise against doing ANY work on the motor before doing more testing.
[23:12:21] <zeeshan|2> yes
[23:12:22] <zeeshan|2> i wont
[23:12:34] <zeeshan|2> its gonna take me some time to pull this out
[23:12:36] <zeeshan|2> shit is burried in the back
[23:12:40] <furrywolf> you want to know that there was a problem, rather than putting it back together and having no idea what was wrong, if anything...
[23:12:42] <zeeshan|2> it was hard enough to take a pic
[23:12:51] <tjtr33> zee no need ot go into brushes if you can do same from the 5 pin connector
[23:12:51] <zeeshan|2> yes
[23:13:18] <zeeshan|2> thanks guys,, ill be back
[23:13:31] <furrywolf> also, you might need a larger lightbulb. you want enough current that a good portion of the voltage drop is across the motor, not the bulb.
[23:13:52] <Tom_itx> zeeshan|2 unplug the interweb during testing... so you can come back
[23:14:25] <tjtr33> furrywolf, why not inspect the brushes when its out? thats not invasive, thats minimal maintainance
[23:14:43] <furrywolf> tjtr: oh, if he doesn't find a problem, he should definitely do so.
[23:15:01] <furrywolf> but if the problem is poor brush contact, you want to know that, not put it back together and have no idea if you actually fixed anything or not.
[23:17:49] <tjtr33> poor knas left and didnt get answered, he's fell right off my scroll back buffer theres so much zeeshan in here.
[23:24:44] <tjtr33> i wrung out the matrixes to tilt the XY plane with a new kinematics. the realized that 1mm of 'X' travel would be only 400 microns, so i loose resolution as soon as I tip the working plane :(
[23:24:44] <EO_> I have a g-code that doesn't show any soft-limit violations in the linuxcnc bounding box, but when I try to mill it, it complains about Z axis limits being exceeded
[23:24:50] <EO_> I'm totally confused :(
[23:25:24] <XXCoder> you sure physical z limits is larger than soft z limits?
[23:25:26] <EO_> http://bartk.us/dump/Screenshot-1.png <-- here's the screenshot of the error
[23:25:58] <EO_> XXCoder: where does one define physical Z limits?
[23:26:20] <XXCoder> hmm doesn't it find em and store values for em?
[23:26:55] <XXCoder> unless you has no switches to detect physical limit
[23:26:59] <tjtr33> E0_ line 6 uses corrd system G53, check there
[23:27:08] <EO_> I do manual homing
[23:27:22] <XXCoder> okay end of my help tj probably can do more
[23:27:43] <tjtr33> Z0 in G53 may be out of your motion ability
[23:28:00] <EO_> G53 is the machine native coordinate system right?
[23:29:00] <tjtr33> yes, switch the display to 'machine coordinates' and look at the numbers ( where you are now, and imagine where Z0 would take you )
[23:29:16] <EO_> isn't Z0 gonna be the homed position?
[23:30:30] <tjtr33> not necesarily, switch using VIEW | Show machine position (if you're using AXIS gui )
[23:30:42] * furrywolf seriously needs to make a phone OS named gynoid
[23:31:07] <tjtr33> furrywolf wants to be a gynoidoligist
[23:31:17] <EO_> Z shows -13 right now
[23:31:23] <EO_> (in machine coords)
[23:31:24] <furrywolf> android is sexist. :P
[23:31:51] <PetefromTn_andro> Chicka..da...China. da Chinese chicken......
[23:31:59] <XXCoder> how so?
[23:32:26] <EO_> http://bartk.us/dump/Screenshot-2.png <-- machine coordinates
[23:32:40] <EO_> no extents are marked in red
[23:33:19] <PetefromTn_andro> Isn't that cool..
[23:34:46] <tjtr33> EO_, and if you moved towards Z0? , try it, move 1 inch closer in jog while in machine coord display, then imagine if its ok to move all the way to Z0. would that take you outside the red box?
[23:35:04] <EO_> http://bartk.us/dump/Screenshot-3.png <-- DRO screen. Is TLO Z gonna cause problems?
[23:35:30] <tjtr33> i keep trying to rotate your screenshot to see where the bounds are :)
[23:35:39] <EO_> tjtr33: haha
[23:35:40] <PetefromTn_andro> Hehe
[23:35:50] <EO_> tjtr33: anyway, I moved Z to "-0.000". My units are mm.
[23:36:03] <PetefromTn_andro> What's the problem what are we working on tonight?
[23:36:37] * EO_ is trying to just cut out a plate, but having Z limit errors
[23:36:47] <furrywolf> the problem I'm working on is how to get anything useful done when I'm exhausted all the time from work.
[23:36:52] <furrywolf> my mill should be finished by now.
[23:37:21] <EO_> tjtr33: with physical Z @ 0 (homed) G54 Z is showing -28.384
[23:37:26] <tjtr33> PetefromTn_andro, if you dont have scrollback enuf, use Michaels excellent logs
http://linuxcnc.mah.priv.at/irc/%23linuxcnc/2015-02-07.html
[23:37:52] <PetefromTn_andro> Yeah well I am a lazyass I guess hehe
[23:38:02] <tjtr33> EO_, yes i see that, , the math isnt working in my head right now, sorry
[23:38:25] <EO_> something's funky
[23:38:34] <EO_> G54 Z isn't updating in line with machine Z
[23:38:36] <EO_> on the DRO screen
[23:38:45] <EO_> (as I jog Z)
[23:39:20] <tjtr33> force refresh? leave that display & come back?
[23:39:58] <PetefromTn_andro> Does it usually I never really go to the dro page
[23:40:09] <EO_> switching to 3D and abck to DRO still has G54 Z stuck @ -24.379...wtf...it moved 4 mm from last time I reported and now it's just...stuck there
[23:40:51] <tjtr33> swx to relative, then back to machine
[23:40:57] <tjtr33> \same?
[23:41:06] <PetefromTn_andro> Do you have to be in G54 for the dro page to show movement:
[23:41:08] <EO_> no chaneg
[23:41:16] <tjtr33> i try here
[23:41:24] <EO_> AXIS 2.5.0 here btw
[23:41:40] <PetefromTn_andro> I'm in bed or I would try to see on my machine..
[23:42:41] <Cromaglious> Only certain radio shacks are clearance stores
[23:43:08] <furrywolf> bbl, wolfy bedtime
[23:43:26] <Cromaglious> Nite nite
[23:44:15] <tjtr33> EO_, i cant debug for my my cfg is weird kins and i got a bug, sorry
[23:44:39] <PetefromTn_andro> So you see z limit errors when you load a program
[23:44:51] <tjtr33> that mine acted strange doing wht you tried is not good science... my fg is experimental
[23:47:44] <tjtr33> but the numbers... if you are at machine Z-28.394 AND Z0 relative, and want to move to Z 12" relative, thatd be Z-14.394 right? is that reasonable (you built it ! :)
[23:48:25] <EO_> all these are in mm, not inches
[23:48:29] <EO_> the Z travel is 80mm
[23:48:41] <EO_> MIN_LIMIT = -80.0
[23:48:41] <EO_> MAX_LIMIT = 0.0
[23:48:56] <EO_> I have it homed @ top of Z travel, and define that as 0
[23:49:03] <EO_> then -80 is bottom of travel
[23:49:04] <tjtr33> uh, 80mm is like 3 inches, you aint goin 12" from here, no way
[23:49:20] <EO_> why do you keep referring to inches? :)
[23:49:27] <EO_> this is all mm
[23:49:33] <tjtr33> sorry
[23:49:40] <tjtr33> looking at your dro
[23:50:05] <tjtr33> sorry MY dro has 4 decimal doh!
[23:52:42] <EO_> besides, wouldn't exceeded limits be shown as red markers in axis?
[23:52:58] <EO_> the only weird thing I can think of is that tool offset
[23:53:06] <EO_> but it's only 0.511 (inches of all things!)
[23:53:12] <EO_> perhaps this g-code is using inches?
[23:53:13] <PetefromTn_andro> Do you have a tool Length offset loaded
[23:53:45] <EO_> but there's the G21
[23:53:49] <EO_> right on line 5
[23:54:11] <EO_> PetefromTn_andro: well, DRO is reporting TLO Z as 0.511, so apparently yes?
[23:55:01] <PetefromTn_andro> Sorry I am trying to look at it on my smartphone and switch back and forth
[23:55:31] <EO_> I could post the G if that'd be helpful
[23:55:59] <EO_> it's just a 1/2" deep step cut of a plate
[23:56:28] <tjtr33> or 12.7mm ;)
[23:56:32] <EO_> yes
[23:57:24] <EO_> ok weird. I just noticed the status bar. "Tool 1, offset 0.511, diameter 0.125"
[23:57:47] <PetefromTn_andro> Maybe try retouching the tool to the work surface and reset g54 z
[23:58:01] <EO_> I might have mis-dimensioned the tool, so it came out way smaller than reality
[23:58:21] <PetefromTn_andro> Yeah I saw that and you have 3.75 or something in the code
[23:58:28] <EO_> PetefromTn_andro: I've done so many Z-touches today. I get different types of Z limit errors depending on depth of touchoff.
[23:59:14] <tjtr33> you can roll the camera view to see the side view of red boundry box, do you see your position close to the bounds? ( TLO Z is only .5mm if tool table is mm )
[23:59:31] <PetefromTn_andro> How are you measuring you tool lengths
[23:59:42] <zeeshan|2> video coming up
0E9s37F,2HBQ,w9,Vqh!~~60_57.JPG){kind=link}
