#linuxcnc | Logs for 2015-02-04

[00:00:11] <zeeshan|2> no
[00:00:14] <zeeshan|2> about 3000 total
[00:00:17] <zeeshan|2> w/ the machine included
[00:00:38] <renesis> man fuck this fixed zoom wont load a real image bullshit
[00:00:42] <renesis> it wont let me zoom
[00:00:45] <furrywolf_> I guess it's like that auto-retracting table saw... works great, but e-stops are very expensive? :)
[00:01:10] <zeeshan|2> it only handled two power cycles
[00:01:14] <zeeshan|2> before the drive blew
[00:01:16] <renesis> thats not so bad, $3k
[00:01:26] <zeeshan|2> dude if i bought these drives new
[00:01:28] <zeeshan|2> i'd be crying
[00:01:30] <zeeshan|2> theyre like 700$
[00:01:41] <zeeshan|2> i lost 100
[00:01:41] <renesis> so it maybe didnt handle any properly and it just took two times to completely break it
[00:01:43] <zeeshan|2> on 2 drives
[00:01:45] <furrywolf_> only? my stepper drives are $700 new. lol
[00:02:02] <renesis> each or multichannel?
[00:02:16] <furrywolf_> each
[00:02:38] <renesis> i hope not for your sherline
[00:03:03] <furrywolf_> zee: remove the drive, power up, and measure every wire to it. line voltage should be 120, all motor leads to each other or ground should be 0, tach should be 0 (measure to ground too), control lines should be 5v or whatever, etc.
[00:03:17] <furrywolf_> for my shoptask. centent cn0165s.
[00:03:25] <renesis> oh cool
[00:04:27] <zeeshan|2> you really want me to power this blown drive up?! :P
[00:04:40] <renesis> without the drive
[00:04:50] <furrywolf_> no, if you look at the first thing I said, "remove the drive". lol
[00:04:53] <zeeshan|2> ah you scared me for a sec :)
[00:04:54] <pcw_home> that looks like maybe a buck converter blew (from 170VDC to +15 or somr such)
[00:04:57] <renesis> do what furry says it makes sense
[00:05:21] <furrywolf_> make sure there's no power leaking to the drive somehow from any of the wiring, and that all wiring has the voltage and polarity expected.
[00:05:27] <zeeshan|2> pcw_home: why would it blow 2 seperate drives
[00:05:32] <renesis> yeah big coil next to it
[00:05:38] <zeeshan|2> furrywolf_: what is confusing me
[00:05:41] <zeeshan|2> is it was running just fine?!?!
[00:05:48] <zeeshan|2> and all it took was a power cycle to blow it?
[00:06:01] <furrywolf_> yes, the 3-legged part could be a pass transistor for a switching supply. I haven't traced it, and I hate working on things with ground part numbers.
[00:06:12] <renesis> ya
[00:06:39] <furrywolf_> that's certainly possible given the inductor and the large diode next to it...
[00:07:03] <pcw_home> dont know, but that 4700 uh choke looks like part of a a HV non isolated buck converter
[00:07:23] <zeeshan|2> i cant believe you guys can look at this circuit
[00:07:27] <zeeshan|2> and make sense of it by just looking at it.
[00:07:28] <zeeshan|2> lol
[00:07:40] <furrywolf_> that'd support my theory that the cap was overvolted. it looks overvolted. :)
[00:07:45] <renesis> thats a lot of sot23 for a smps unless its its some ancient tl494 style pwm chip and everything protection startup related is external
[00:08:45] <renesis> so you maybe burped the smps control circuitry, because it looks hella analol hacker, and it flipped out and blew its output
[00:08:50] <renesis> stuck on or something
[00:09:21] <furrywolf_> there's a 14 pin and an 8 pin chip that could well be control, but with the markings sanded off...
[00:09:27] <renesis> look close for anything else burnt up, if its just that area, you can maybe just replace the parts
[00:09:37] <renesis> right but you can maybe reverse the pinout
[00:09:37] <zeeshan|2> renesis
[00:09:42] <zeeshan|2> i can buy these drives for cheap
[00:09:46] <zeeshan|2> i dont mind buying them
[00:09:47] <zeeshan|2> its just
[00:09:49] <zeeshan|2> im gonna blow it up again
[00:09:52] <zeeshan|2> which i do mind..
[00:09:59] <renesis> well having them work twice might get spendy
[00:10:00] <zeeshan|2> i only have 1 spare left
[00:10:12] <zeeshan|2> and i really dont want to blow that one up
[00:10:16] <renesis> i would take the other shit off its post relay power relay
[00:10:26] <pcw_home> any chance that the primary got overvolted somehow?
[00:10:35] <renesis> it maybe doesnt have very good brownout immunity
[00:10:51] <furrywolf_> any chance the VFDs could be back-feeding? were they turned on when you e-stopped?
[00:10:58] <renesis> yeah i keep telling him to check power with a DMM or scope or something
[00:10:59] <zeeshan|2> furrywolf_: yes they were on
[00:11:02] <zeeshan|2> but no motors were running
[00:11:07] <renesis> it wouldnt matter
[00:11:21] <renesis> this has to do with the vfd power supplies pushing energy into each other
[00:11:26] <furrywolf_> if they're just standard rectify-and-filter inputs, they shouldn't be capable of backfeeding.
[00:11:26] <zeeshan|2> why does it only blow up my z drive
[00:11:35] <renesis> and your big one flipping out and burning up an SMPS transistor
[00:11:36] <pcw_home> a sneak path in the primary switching when the drives are disabled could be deadly
[00:11:44] <furrywolf_> do you have an oscilloscope?
[00:11:47] <zeeshan|2> no i dont
[00:11:47] <renesis> your board is what happens when an SMPS stops pwm'ing =\
[00:11:49] <zeeshan|2> i can buy one
[00:11:54] <renesis> then use your dmm at least
[00:12:00] <renesis> do you have an rs232 dmm?
[00:12:05] <zeeshan|2> no
[00:12:19] <pcw_home> are all the drives primary wiring paralleled?
[00:12:20] <furrywolf_> might be interesting to clip a 'scope on random wires and e-stop a few times...
[00:12:41] <furrywolf_> pcw: the one that blows is on a separate contactor pole than the two that don't.
[00:12:54] <renesis> i didnt know that
[00:13:15] <renesis> i thought they were on the same one, but is estop even being tripped? did estop blow shit up or normal power down killed it?
[00:13:17] <pcw_home> even a 100 ma sneak path from 220 could kill the drive if its disabled/unloaded
[00:13:41] <renesis> thats 20W yo!
[00:13:52] <furrywolf_> renesis: he gave details on how it was powered more than once. you even asked about the difference between a contactor and a relay.
[00:13:54] <zeeshan|2> when you say primary wiring paralleled
[00:13:56] <zeeshan|2> what do you exactly mean
[00:14:04] <zeeshan|2> like l1 is powering up all the drives?
[00:14:07] <furrywolf_> you're only switching the hots, not the neutral, right? (and are you sure of that?)
[00:14:19] <pcw_home> Ill bet you have a sneak path and are overvolting the primary somehow
[00:14:21] <renesis> yeah i still dont think theres a difference
[00:14:23] <renesis> but whatever
[00:14:27] <zeeshan|2> what is a sneak path
[00:14:28] <zeeshan|2> lol
[00:14:35] <renesis> contactor is just the industrial supply name for a bigass relay
[00:14:45] <furrywolf_> is there any chance you're opening the neutral instead of the hot?
[00:14:57] <renesis> zeeshan|2: short, cap or inductor in a silly state, shrug
[00:15:39] <renesis> its like how car people call capacitors condensers
[00:15:58] <furrywolf_> car people call contactors solenoids. :P
[00:16:24] <renesis> because theyre attached to solenoids a lot of the time!
[00:16:27] <furrywolf_> any chance one of your VFDs is wired across both L1 and L2, rather than L2-neutral?
[00:16:28] <zeeshan|2> i wish i could invert the colors for this
[00:16:32] <renesis> and they call them relays, mostly
[00:16:55] <renesis> solenoid in a car usually makes me think starter motor engage
[00:17:06] <furrywolf_> renesis: no, for example, a fender-mounted starter solenoid is just a contactor.
[00:17:21] <zeeshan|2> https://www.dropbox.com/s/abmmue9j5bwostk/Master%20Wiring%20Diagram.pdf?dl=0
[00:17:23] <zeeshan|2> wiring diagram
[00:17:26] <zeeshan|2> of exactly what i followed
[00:17:27] <renesis> why is there a relay on the fender?
[00:17:40] <renesis> have you like triple checked that?
[00:17:46] <zeeshan|2> instead of "breaker"
[00:17:56] <zeeshan|2> they are fuses
[00:17:56] <furrywolf_> because it uses the little wire from the ignition switch to turn on the big wire to the starter motor.
[00:18:00] <zeeshan|2> thats the only difference
[00:18:19] <renesis> why would that be on the fender, tho?
[00:18:26] <renesis> cars are so weird
[00:19:21] <furrywolf_> your description of the wiring does not match the diagram. your diagram shows only the driver on a set of contactor contacts, while you said there's also two vfds on it.
[00:19:28] <furrywolf_> because the battery is mounted next to the fender?
[00:19:35] <renesis> wow
[00:19:43] <furrywolf_> and the logical place to put it, keeping the wires short?
[00:19:50] <renesis> when i zoom in dropbox pdf, it zooms the dropbox border
[00:19:52] <renesis> not the pdf
[00:19:55] <zeeshan|2> lol
[00:20:11] <renesis> their android pdf reader is a bit on crack too
[00:20:30] <furrywolf_> are your VFDs 110 or 220 input?
[00:20:37] <renesis> man fuck you guys i was reading this i ate all the bourbon chicken bites and dont even remember doing it
[00:20:44] <zeeshan|2> 2 vfds are 110v input
[00:20:51] <furrywolf_> ... is renesis just flyback under another nick?
[00:20:51] <zeeshan|2> spindle is 220v input
[00:21:09] <renesis> no im good at electronics shit =)
[00:21:17] <furrywolf_> so the VFDs running off the same contactor contacts as the z-axis drive are 110V?
[00:21:22] <renesis> you calls relays contactors so you cant say shit =p
[00:21:48] <furrywolf_> a contactor breaks the circuit in two places, while a relay breaks it in one, or something like that. the mechanical design is different.
[00:21:58] <renesis> or something like that?
[00:22:14] <zeeshan|2> https://www.flickr.com/photos/128539016@N05/16081023790/
[00:22:16] <furrywolf_> yes, or something like that. if you care, go do your own reading.
[00:22:17] <zeeshan|2> the best is to look at this picture
[00:22:18] <renesis> relays come in single or multiple pole, and single or dual throw
[00:22:21] <zeeshan|2> this will explain it all
[00:22:29] <renesis> normal relay to me is DPDT
[00:22:31] <zeeshan|2> the bottom set of fuse holders are L1
[00:22:40] <zeeshan|2> the second set of fuse holders above them are l2
[00:22:44] <zeeshan|2> the 2 big ass fuse holders are l1 and l2
[00:22:49] <renesis> which you say is a contactor but they dont call them that at digikey or mouser
[00:22:57] <zeeshan|2> the big ass fuse holders go to the contactor right above them
[00:23:02] <furrywolf_> renesis: a contactor usually uses a pair of contacts that close onto another pair of contacts, so when it opens, there are two air gaps, not just one.
[00:23:02] <renesis> well, maybe if theyre huge
[00:23:09] <zeeshan|2> which then powers the spindle vfd
[00:23:24] <zeeshan|2> the X Y Z drives go to a 3 pole contactor
[00:23:27] * furrywolf_ once again saves it and opens it in gimp, because flickr sucks.
[00:23:28] <zeeshan|2> and get killed together
[00:23:41] <renesis> furrywolf_: okay so lots of relays do that
[00:24:04] <zeeshan|2> c axis and a axis (not powered right now, fuse is removed from fuse holder)
[00:24:09] <zeeshan|2> go to their own contactor
[00:24:14] <renesis> standard dual throw stuff, its not going to short out the legs
[00:24:18] <zeeshan|2> lastly both coolant pump and hyd pump have their own contactor
[00:24:18] <furrywolf_> earlier you said the Z driver was on the same contactor output as two VFDs.
[00:24:26] <furrywolf_> that's not what you said earlier!
[00:24:26] <renesis> flyback probably knows this, too, btw
[00:24:36] <zeeshan|2> furrywolf_: my bad
[00:25:05] <renesis> furrywolf_: and youre bitching at me because im trying to clarify what hes said?
[00:25:15] <renesis> eheheh
[00:26:09] <furrywolf_> so the Z drive has its own contactor contact, with nothing else running off it?
[00:26:26] <renesis> is that for power or estop or what
[00:26:30] <LeelooMinai> Hmm, watched the NY CNC video or whatever it's called and the guy was changing the bits few times. How does it work on z position? I did not see any calibration going...
[00:26:38] <zeeshan|2> furrywolf_: exactly
[00:26:59] <zeeshan|2> this is driving me insane
[00:27:04] <zeeshan|2> :(
[00:27:44] <zeeshan|2> would i get this kind of damage
[00:27:57] <furrywolf_> why does your wiring make it look like everything runs through the spindle circuit? lol
[00:28:00] <zeeshan|2> if somehow the motor shorted against the tachometer?!
[00:28:15] <renesis> thats the main circuit, no?
[00:28:23] <zeeshan|2> furrywolf_: thats the mains side
[00:28:25] <zeeshan|2> to the entire thing
[00:28:29] <furrywolf_> <furrywolf_> any chance your motor power is shorting to the tach?
[00:28:31] <zeeshan|2> notice the empty lugs? thats where the power comes from the breaker panel
[00:28:37] <renesis> i just see it conned to L1/L2/GND
[00:28:45] <renesis> and comm and the motor
[00:29:15] <furrywolf_> ah, so this picture is of a previous state, not its current state.
[00:29:23] <renesis> zeeshan|2: what is the sequency that it blows up?
[00:29:50] <renesis> 20 second power cycling of what relays, and what was the off/on/off/etc order
[00:29:53] <zeeshan|2> power on the system
[00:30:07] <furrywolf_> you're sure you have neutral and ground into the box correct, right? and that you don't have a hot neutral or something silly?
[00:30:10] <zeeshan|2> power it off
[00:30:11] <renesis> does that power the spindle relay?
[00:30:13] <zeeshan|2> wait 20 seconds
[00:30:16] <zeeshan|2> power it back on
[00:30:17] <zeeshan|2> boom
[00:30:26] <renesis> that just does the main disconnect?
[00:30:32] <renesis> or it does each relay in a sequence
[00:30:34] <renesis> or what
[00:30:42] <zeeshan|2> when i press e-stop
[00:30:45] <zeeshan|2> it kills all contactors
[00:30:48] <zeeshan|2> in one shot
[00:30:57] <renesis> is that what you mean power off/on?
[00:31:01] <zeeshan|2> yes
[00:31:02] <renesis> the e-stop?
[00:31:03] <renesis> k
[00:31:09] <renesis> when does main disco happen?
[00:31:18] <zeeshan|2> after i e-stop
[00:31:26] <zeeshan|2> sometimes i just shut it right off
[00:31:27] <renesis> did it blow up before or after main disco
[00:31:37] <zeeshan|2> it blew up asap i got out of e-stop
[00:31:44] <renesis> right that could cause the condition me and furry were thinking
[00:31:45] <zeeshan|2> shot a spark out
[00:31:53] <renesis> okay
[00:32:02] <renesis> are they the same relays?
[00:32:26] <renesis> same model? so timing due to mechanicals and coil force
[00:32:49] <zeeshan|2> you mean contactors?
[00:32:54] <renesis> oh def not
[00:33:06] <renesis> yeah man the switches with the coils next to them
[00:33:11] <zeeshan|2> there are no relays
[00:33:19] <furrywolf_> he's going to insist on calling the contactors relays, because he doesn't think distinguishing terms are useful. he probably calls semitrucks cars too.
[00:33:31] <zeeshan|2> it goes +24vdc -> e-stop -> contactor1 coil, contactor2 coil, contactor 3 coil
[00:33:32] <renesis> i do actually
[00:33:38] <renesis> i ride my car to school, to
[00:33:45] <zeeshan|2> man its not a relay
[00:33:48] <zeeshan|2> its similar
[00:33:56] <zeeshan|2> its called a contactor because it disconnects contacts
[00:33:59] <zeeshan|2> which can be more than one
[00:34:01] <renesis> how is that not a dual pole single throw relay?
[00:34:22] <renesis> i dont even own any single pole single throw relays =\
[00:34:38] <furrywolf_> sure you do. cars are full of them.
[00:34:46] <renesis> no i mean in parts bins
[00:35:02] <renesis> point is relays can be single or dual throw and have as many poles as you need
[00:35:18] <furrywolf_> again, are you absolutely sure you have neutral and hot correct? have you measured 120V at the input to your driver, 120V hot to ground, and 0V neutral to ground?
[00:35:23] <renesis> its the most general term
[00:36:04] <zeeshan|2> furrywolf_: before i hooked up anything
[00:36:14] <zeeshan|2> i measured the voltage at the connector that connects to the servo drive
[00:36:17] <zeeshan|2> i was geetting 120v
[00:36:30] <renesis> from where to where
[00:37:22] <renesis> N to L1? or GND to L1
[00:37:42] <renesis> because if you swap N and L1 youll still get 120V between them because its the same thing
[00:38:14] <furrywolf_> renesis: just like how a semitruck tends to have a hinge in the middle and a car does not, a relay tends to have a hinged contact, while a contactor does not.
[00:38:31] <renesis> tends to?
[00:38:47] <renesis> what is hinged?
[00:38:56] <renesis> like a spring contact?
[00:38:59] <zeeshan|2> i measured ohms from l1 @ connector to l1 at mains
[00:39:06] <renesis> an actual multipart hinge?
[00:39:06] <zeeshan|2> n to n @ mains
[00:39:13] <zeeshan|2> and gnd to chassis
[00:39:16] <furrywolf_> a relay is shaped like _/_, while a contactor like _"_.
[00:39:37] <zeeshan|2> contactors also have contacts!
[00:39:43] <zeeshan|2> fancy ones
[00:39:57] <furrywolf_> rather than a single hinged contact, it has a pair of contacts that both open
[00:40:12] <renesis> furrywolf_: in the world of very big thing to certain people you may be correct, but a relay is a switch operated by a coil, it may have several poles, can be dual or single throw, and theres lots of diff switch mechanical setups
[00:40:42] <renesis> theyre all switches
[00:41:09] <renesis> a common relay does mean all the relays are the common type, whatever that is, totally depends on what you work with
[00:41:31] <furrywolf_> right, and cars, trucks, semis, gokarts, unicycles, and stilts are all locomotion aids, so lets call all of them the same thing.
[00:41:47] <renesis> well it would be correct to call a car a vehicle
[00:42:00] <renesis> because a car is a vehicle does not make a truck not a vehicle
[00:42:09] <renesis> hell a space ship is a vehicle
[00:42:54] <renesis> anyway, for future reference furry, a relay is a switch operated coil
[00:43:03] <renesis> well, reverse
[00:43:12] <renesis> contactor is the same thing
[00:43:13] <furrywolf_> zeeshan: check your z motor wiring again, being sure to measure between the tach and power wires, and everything to the ground... also make sure the control signals to the driver are what you think they are...
[00:43:30] <furrywolf_> the machine works otherwise, right?
[00:43:39] <furrywolf_> that is, until it blows, all parts function like they should?
[00:44:24] <zeeshan|2> yes it works fine
[00:44:27] <furrywolf_> renesis: a car is an engine operated vehicle. a semitruck is an engine operated vehicle. a gokart is an engine operated vehicle. therefor, a semitruck is a car is a gocart is a scooter.
[00:44:32] <zeeshan|2> and then it blows after a power cycle
[00:44:38] <renesis> no furry
[00:44:39] <furrywolf_> at this point, I'm deciding you're either trolling or retarded.
[00:44:43] <renesis> but theyre all vehicles
[00:44:52] <renesis> reed relays are reed relays
[00:44:56] <renesis> contactors are relays
[00:45:00] <renesis> get over it move on
[00:45:09] <renesis> reed relays are relays
[00:45:29] <renesis> man its been almost 40 hours since i slept
[00:45:38] <zeeshan|2> could voltage be going up the ground
[00:45:41] <zeeshan|2> of the servo motor?
[00:45:45] <zeeshan|2> from another device?
[00:45:49] <zeeshan|2> but i guess in that case
[00:45:52] <zeeshan|2> why is only Z blowing
[00:45:55] <zeeshan|2> other shit should blow
[00:46:02] <furrywolf_> yes, but only if the motor has a ground-power short...
[00:46:11] <zeeshan|2> which it doesnt
[00:46:15] <renesis> maybe if other grounds went open
[00:46:15] <zeeshan|2> because ohmmeter told us that
[00:46:33] <renesis> no return, flyback voltages
[00:46:37] <zeeshan|2> furrywolf_: my weedwacker is a vehicle too!
[00:46:37] <zeeshan|2> :P
[00:46:44] <renesis> it is
[00:46:52] <renesis> but that doesnt make a contactor a vehicle
[00:47:11] <renesis> it also doesnt make the vehicle called a spaceship a weedwacker
[00:47:19] <renesis> im assuming your weedwacker is some sort of riding mower
[00:47:25] <zeeshan|2> renesis: if you call a relay a contactor @ a place like eaton
[00:47:27] <zeeshan|2> you'd prolly get fired
[00:47:28] <zeeshan|2> :)
[00:47:40] <renesis> i dont work there
[00:47:51] <zeeshan|2> if you did!
[00:47:52] <renesis> and why would i call a relay a contactor
[00:47:54] <renesis> it isnt
[00:47:59] <renesis> but a contactor is a relay
[00:48:01] <zeeshan|2> why would you call a contactor a relay?
[00:48:03] <furrywolf_> power it up with the bad drive removed, and carefully measure every single wire to the driver, and make sure they're exactly what they should be. with no drive, every wire that goes to the motor should read completely dead, both to each other and ground. same for the tach. your control inputs should all be logic voltages. the hot mains input should read 120v to the neutral, the ground wire, and the frame. the neutral input should read 0v to ground an
[00:48:11] <renesis> because its a coil operated switch
[00:48:17] <renesis> its a type of relay
[00:48:21] <furrywolf_> because he's defective, and won't listen even though I've explained the difference several times.
[00:48:23] <renesis> a relay is not a type of contactor
[00:48:39] <zeeshan|2> furrywolf_: and if they all do?
[00:48:40] <zeeshan|2> then what :(
[00:49:04] <furrywolf_> then get an oscilloscope and see if anything really weird happens on e-stop...
[00:49:06] <renesis> do what furry says step by step
[00:49:56] <furrywolf_> be warned you'll be working and measuring live, disconnected wiring for this step. assume ALL wires are live, even those going to the disconnected motor and tach.
[00:50:18] <renesis> i like taping open wires down
[00:50:19] <furrywolf_> this means don't use your fingers to hold the tip of the probe to the wire. :)
[00:50:43] <zeeshan|2> furrywolf_: the only thing live is
[00:50:46] <furrywolf_> especially don't do this with both hands, when measuring the mains input, one hand per probe. :P
[00:50:49] <zeeshan|2> the retarded iec c14 connector
[00:50:54] <zeeshan|2> which is very hard to get owned by
[00:51:14] <furrywolf_> yes, in theory. but you're working with a system that may well have a short somewhere backfeeding power.
[00:51:14] <zeeshan|2> cause the damn live portions are so deep inside it
[00:51:26] <zeeshan|2> well in that case
[00:51:32] <renesis> http://w3.siemens.com/mcms/industrial-controls/en/controls/contactor/contactor-relay/pages/default.aspx
[00:51:34] <zeeshan|2> shouldnt i just quickly measure ohms between ground
[00:51:40] <zeeshan|2> and the primary side of ALL my devices?
[00:51:43] <zeeshan|2> with power turned off.
[00:51:46] <renesis> zeeshan|2: do what furry says!
[00:51:56] <renesis> anyway, siemens and me are right
[00:52:00] <furrywolf_> if it's frying because you're somehow ending up with 220v on the motor leads even with the driver removed, you don't want to find this out when you complete the circuit yourself.
[00:52:05] <renesis> you talk shit about eaton anyway
[00:52:11] <renesis> laters
[00:52:32] <ve7it> problem could be a loose N connection.... instead of your broken Z drive wire in a 100w light bulb and do the same on the L1 side... on powerup if one pops, its because of a bad neutral connection
[00:52:47] <furrywolf_> no, you shouldn't. shorts are often non-linear. this is why insulation testing is always done at high voltage, because problems often don't show up at the fraction of a volt a multimeter uses.
[00:53:06] <renesis> this ve7it guy is smart
[00:53:08] <furrywolf_> testing powered up is more reliable than ohms measurements
[00:53:56] <furrywolf_> yes, it could be a bad N... which is part of why I've suggested several times actually measuring things. :)
[00:54:05] <zeeshan|2> okay tell me again
[00:54:06] <zeeshan|2> once more
[00:54:13] <zeeshan|2> im measuring l1 and n
[00:54:16] <zeeshan|2> at the connector of the drive
[00:54:22] <zeeshan|2> with a volt meter
[00:54:48] <zeeshan|2> i dont have a 100 watt bulb
[00:54:50] <zeeshan|2> those things are rare now
[00:54:58] <zeeshan|2> its all led :P and ccfl
[00:55:00] <zeeshan|2> or halogen
[00:55:32] <furrywolf_> you're measuring EVERY WIRE that connects to the driver.
[00:56:38] <furrywolf_> hot to neutral should be 120v. hot to ground should be 120v. hot to the metal chasis should be 120v. neutral to ground should be 0v. neutral to chasis should be 0v. in e-stop, all should be 0v. every wire to the motor and the tach, measured to each other and to ground, should be 0v. every control to the drive should be a low-level logic voltage, whatever yours is.
[00:58:46] <zeeshan|2> okay
[00:58:50] <zeeshan|2> going to do it now :)
[00:59:43] <furrywolf_> and I'm going to go to bed. it's an hour and forty minutes past my bedtime, because I've been doing this.
[00:59:48] <zeeshan|2> thank you!
[01:00:20] <furrywolf_> right now you're trying to determine if voltage is somehow getting into the drive from an external source, that shouldn't be.
[01:00:29] <furrywolf_> or if you have a major wiring issue, like bad neutral.
[01:00:54] <zeeshan|2> ill be optimistic :P
[01:00:58] <zeeshan|2> i know its likely not wiring
[01:01:06] <zeeshan|2> because i moved the drive
[01:01:14] <zeeshan|2> from the Z axis wiring
[01:01:17] <zeeshan|2> to A axis wiring
[01:01:24] <zeeshan|2> and it did the exact same thing
[01:01:31] <zeeshan|2> that only confirms l1, n , gnd are all good
[01:01:48] <zeeshan|2> but it could still be getting voltage on the control side
[01:02:18] <furrywolf_> so you swapped the power plug (sounds like computer plugs?) between when the first drive blew and the second drive blew?
[01:02:49] <zeeshan|2> check this
[01:02:50] <zeeshan|2> out
[01:03:03] <zeeshan|2> http://c4.staticflickr.com/8/7480/16082519967_8e2e4ad967_h.jpg
[01:03:10] <zeeshan|2> a proper link this time :)
[01:03:21] <zeeshan|2> i moved the drive from the Z axis spot
[01:03:25] <zeeshan|2> removed the A axis drive
[01:03:28] <zeeshan|2> er
[01:03:33] <zeeshan|2> left the A axis drive where it is
[01:03:43] <zeeshan|2> just moved the J6 connector
[01:03:53] <zeeshan|2> and servo motor wires to the A axis.
[01:03:56] <zeeshan|2> drive
[01:04:03] <zeeshan|2> and it did the exact same thing
[01:04:41] <furrywolf_> so you moved the control, motor power, and tach wires, and it blew the drive you moved them to?
[01:04:46] <zeeshan|2> yes
[01:04:56] <zeeshan|2> the only thing i didnt move
[01:05:00] <zeeshan|2> was theL1 N gnd
[01:05:04] <zeeshan|2> on th drive power side.
[01:05:28] <furrywolf_> so you swapped from a drive on l2 to a drive on l1, then?
[01:05:37] <zeeshan|2> no
[01:05:40] <zeeshan|2> it stayed l2.
[01:05:45] <zeeshan|2> a c and z are all l2
[01:05:52] <furrywolf_> ah
[01:07:09] <witnit> is anyone familiar with these units? Im curious about backlash in the spindle during reversing the spindle rotation. I intend to use this with dual servos for ridgid tapping. Suggestions to alternatives preferably much smaller.
[01:07:14] <furrywolf_> definitely check for unexpected power on the motor, tach, and control wires... also check for motor to tach shorts.
[01:07:14] <furrywolf_> bbl
[01:07:18] <witnit> http://www.ebay.com/itm/Sugino-Selfeeder-Mechatric-Self-feeding-Drill-Package-MSX-113S-Used-WARRANTY-/390017659354?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item5acedd31da
[01:14:09] <RyanS> hmm this venturi burner i built works fine until i mount it on a forge, then it chokes up. if i blow air around the nozzle it fires like satan himself designed it... forge too small?
[01:15:01] <RyanS> and LOUD with added air
[01:35:17] <witnit> hello new2cnc welcome!
[01:36:11] <witnit> i used to be new2cnc as well, now im referred to as bad@cnc
[01:37:50] <RyanS> im tootight4cnc
[01:51:38] <zeeshan|2> http://imgur.com/a/fKIOl#0
[01:51:40] <zeeshan|2> second failure pics
[01:51:47] <zeeshan|2> this one blew up even worse!
[01:53:20] <zeeshan|2> http://imgur.com/a/rIy7k#0
[01:53:22] <zeeshan|2> first failure
[01:53:59] <zeeshan|2> hm
[01:54:05] <zeeshan|2> now that i look at it closely
[01:54:08] <zeeshan|2> that 3 pin thing
[01:54:13] <zeeshan|2> does have a missing pin even in normal state
[01:54:19] <zeeshan|2> it looks like the caps just blew up
[01:54:58] <zeeshan|2> what is interesting is the only ones that failed are the yellow ones
[01:55:06] <zeeshan|2> in the first failure the black caps didnt fail
[01:55:46] <bobo_> pcw_home Sneak path ----Thankes been a long time since I've heard that term. Zeeshan listen up to what he says.
[01:56:06] <zeeshan|2> bobo_: lol
[01:56:42] <zeeshan|2> bobo
[01:56:46] <zeeshan|2> analyze both failures!
[01:58:16] <bobo_> my money is along the lines of where PCW is exploring
[01:58:37] <zeeshan|2> i dont get what he means by sneak path
[01:58:44] <zeeshan|2> a high voltage
[01:58:46] <zeeshan|2> wher eit shouldnt be?
[02:03:18] <bobo_> sneek as in custormer equipment setting ,the Z drive design is being hammered above what circuit can take.
[02:04:14] <zeeshan|2> i am doubtful of that because
[02:04:20] <zeeshan|2> the motor wasn't in running state when this happened
[02:04:29] <bobo_> such as drives switching low volt supp;y
[02:04:58] <witnit> is this ac drive?
[02:05:04] <zeeshan|2> witnit: yes it takes ac input
[02:05:16] <zeeshan|2> i havent shown the ac rectifier stuff
[02:05:17] <witnit> whats the output?
[02:05:23] <zeeshan|2> but the bottom left side
[02:05:37] <zeeshan|2> where the red and black wire are, is what the voltage supply outputs
[02:05:44] <zeeshan|2> output of what?
[02:05:53] <witnit> I just had these older copely I was not sure if they were good for parts
[02:05:58] <witnit> looked similar
[02:06:12] <witnit> there were some customer specific not pots type drives
[02:06:22] <bobo_> witnit Z is talking about the Servo Drive
[02:06:23] <witnit> and i dont think i have use for them
[02:07:13] <bobo_> Servo drive on Z axis
[02:07:35] <zeeshan|2> i really dont wanna get a larger capacity drive
[02:07:37] <zeeshan|2> and have it blow up
[02:07:39] <zeeshan|2> doing the same thing
[02:07:59] <zeeshan|2> i'm afraid now~! :P
[02:08:17] <Connor> Send AMC a picture of the damage and see if they can give you a idea of where to look.
[02:08:30] <zeeshan|2> i sent it to one of their representatives
[02:08:31] <zeeshan|2> lets see
[02:10:02] <bobo_> Zeeshan are all 3 drives the same ? or is Z a larger amp cap than X an Y ?
[02:10:09] <zeeshan|2> all 3 are the same
[02:13:11] <Connor> yea, you got one strange mystery..
[02:13:14] <Deejay> moin
[02:14:22] <bobo_> Hi Deejay
[02:14:27] <Deejay> hi bobo
[02:18:00] <zeeshan|2> im thinking
[02:18:09] <zeeshan|2> im just gonna remove the servo drives from the e-stop contactor loop.
[02:18:25] <Connor> That's really not a solution.
[02:18:31] <zeeshan|2> the disable
[02:18:46] <zeeshan|2> is much "softer"
[02:18:47] <zeeshan|2> on the drive
[02:18:50] <zeeshan|2> vs a power cycle
[02:18:56] <bobo_> Zeeshan my thinking is the drives switching low voltage supply is locking up from restarting at a partically charged level
[02:18:59] <Connor> you really need to figure it out.. power cycling the drives shouldn't blow them up.
[02:19:50] <bobo_> DC buss level
[02:19:51] <zeeshan|2> bobo_: what is the low voltage supply that youre talking about
[02:20:09] <zeeshan|2> so youre talking about the DC regulation
[02:20:41] <zeeshan|2> it just makes no sense to me why it blows up on the Z drive only
[02:20:45] <zeeshan|2> thats what really bothers me
[02:20:53] <zeeshan|2> it should be doing that to all drives
[02:21:14] <zeeshan|2> the only thing different about the Z drive in terms of power supply
[02:21:17] <zeeshan|2> is that it's powered using l2
[02:21:23] <zeeshan|2> not l1 like x and y are.
[02:22:06] <bobo_> dc low voltage power supp;y for control bd
[02:22:24] <witnit> so you think maybe the motor is shorting back into your drives because bad motor?
[02:22:39] <renesis> 12:03:15 < bobo_> Zeeshan my thinking is the drives switching low voltage supply is locking up from restarting at a partically charged level
[02:22:43] <bobo_> such as 5 volt -- etc
[02:22:44] <zeeshan|2> witnit i measured the motor lead to motor ground
[02:22:46] <renesis> +1 bobo_
[02:22:49] <zeeshan|2> and there is no resistance
[02:23:02] <zeeshan|2> er
[02:23:03] <renesis> it looks like a TL494 circuit, analol hax
[02:23:04] <zeeshan|2> there is resistance.
[02:24:19] <zeeshan|2> bobo_: but all the other x and y drives
[02:24:21] <zeeshan|2> also have 5v going to them
[02:24:24] <zeeshan|2> from the control side.
[02:24:28] <zeeshan|2> why dont they blow up
[02:24:29] <renesis> theyre not the same circuit
[02:24:59] <renesis> discrete control circuitry for switcher psu can be sensitive to all sorts of random things
[02:25:01] <zeeshan|2> same circuit as in power circuit?
[02:25:08] <renesis> yes
[02:25:11] <bobo_> Zeeshan the VFD s are on the same AC hot lead as that Z drive-------I think ?
[02:25:16] <witnit> what kind of feedback device does the motor use?
[02:25:25] <zeeshan|2> witnit tachometer
[02:25:31] <renesis> a modern smps would have a lot more integration and wouldnt let itself get stuck on
[02:25:33] <zeeshan|2> bobo_: bobo yes
[02:25:59] <zeeshan|2> okay so to test this vfd back feeding into the drive
[02:26:08] <zeeshan|2> all i need is a volt meter
[02:26:09] <witnit> tachometer back to drive or tachometer to control?
[02:26:14] <zeeshan|2> and hopefully it can pick it up?
[02:26:24] <zeeshan|2> witnet tachometer back to drive for velocity feedback
[02:26:26] <renesis> wtf no way
[02:26:29] <renesis> it just wont
[02:26:34] <zeeshan|2> ok i need a scope then
[02:26:34] <renesis> not accurately even if something blips
[02:26:50] <renesis> averaging time on dmm is huge compared to an event that could cause this
[02:26:53] <witnit> possible it could be shorting back through tach?
[02:26:57] <renesis> if you want to see you need a scope
[02:27:03] <zeeshan|2> witnit please explain
[02:27:05] <zeeshan|2> shorting how
[02:27:06] <renesis> or microcontroller skills and balls
[02:27:30] <renesis> did you check the motor electronics?
[02:27:39] <zeeshan|2> i only checked motor leads
[02:27:40] <renesis> this is dc brushless?
[02:27:42] <zeeshan|2> motor lkead to ground
[02:27:47] <zeeshan|2> its brush.
[02:27:59] <zeeshan|2> i checked electromagnetic brake coil to ground
[02:28:00] <renesis> have you cleaned it out?
[02:28:01] <zeeshan|2> they were fine
[02:28:07] <zeeshan|2> no
[02:28:12] <witnit> well, my tach was an amature directly behind my servos brush motor and it could get back through can you loop without tach and test tach leads during operatoin?
[02:28:14] <renesis> maybe theres just brush dust on the circuits
[02:28:38] <renesis> or something stupid, paperclip in a vent who knows, you blew two drives i think its time to check, ya?
[02:29:02] <zeeshan|2> witnit my tachometer sits
[02:29:06] <witnit> maybe voltage spikes on it i dunno just trying to imagine what would have the amps to pop those circuits without a backfeed directly from the amps output
[02:29:07] <zeeshan|2> in a seperate box behind the motor
[02:29:18] <zeeshan|2> like its part of the motor
[02:29:24] <zeeshan|2> its on the same shaft
[02:29:28] <zeeshan|2> but its got a partitin
[02:29:32] <zeeshan|2> partition
[02:29:34] <witnit> glentek motors?
[02:29:38] <zeeshan|2> no siemens
[02:29:52] <renesis> like, you could have some gunk that is RC parallel and on transistions its shorting through the cap enough to fuck something
[02:29:52] <witnit> mine were not sealed from the main motor in any way
[02:30:13] <zeeshan|2> http://i.ebayimg.com/00/s/NzUwWDEwMDA=/$T2eC16J,!)0E9s37F,2HBQ,w9,Vqh!~~60_35.JPG
[02:30:16] <zeeshan|2> you see trhat plastic box?
[02:30:18] <renesis> so like, you cut the power and it goes from 120V to 0V at the equiv of 10MHz
[02:30:19] <zeeshan|2> thats where my tacho sits
[02:30:35] <witnit> link?
[02:30:43] <zeeshan|2> " http://i.ebayimg.com/00/s/NzUwWDEwMDA=/$T2eC16J,!)0E9s37F,2HBQ,w9,Vqh!~~60_35.JPG "
[02:30:45] <renesis> and it flips out switcher control circuits during powerdown sequence
[02:30:48] <zeeshan|2> i dont know why its not pasting right
[02:30:54] <zeeshan|2> http://www.ebay.com/itm/SIEMENS-DUBAI-STOCK-MOTOR1HU3-071-1HU3071-1-HU3071-0AF01-Z-1HU30710AF01Z-1HU1052-/261243288451
[02:31:12] <renesis> are yours clean like that?
[02:31:17] <zeeshan|2> yea
[02:31:19] <zeeshan|2> fairly clean!
[02:31:33] <renesis> no vents anywhere?
[02:31:38] <renesis> looks sealed
[02:31:38] <zeeshan|2> nope
[02:31:40] <zeeshan|2> it is.
[02:31:42] <zeeshan|2> :)
[02:32:05] <zeeshan|2> what are the chances
[02:32:13] <zeeshan|2> that the vfds are being gay
[02:32:23] <zeeshan|2> and back feeding into the drive
[02:32:28] <zeeshan|2> they do stay on for a while.
[02:32:32] <zeeshan|2> even after disconnecting
[02:32:44] <Connor> Looking at you schem, X Y and Z are all on L1
[02:32:44] <zeeshan|2> they hold their charge for like 15 seconds
[02:32:55] <zeeshan|2> connor it isnt
[02:33:03] <Connor> Schem Wrong ?
[02:33:04] <renesis> i dunno man i wouldnt blame the others vfd for the spindle drives psu flipping out
[02:33:11] <zeeshan|2> are you lookign at drop box link?
[02:33:16] <Connor> Yes
[02:33:21] <bobo_> Z is on L2
[02:33:26] <zeeshan|2> its wrong then :P
[02:33:36] <Connor> It's yellow...
[02:34:10] <Connor> VFD's can be regenerative.. and dump power back into the buss...
[02:34:25] <zeeshan|2> yellow is l2 connor
[02:34:32] <zeeshan|2> diagram is right
[02:34:37] <zeeshan|2> er
[02:34:41] <zeeshan|2> it is wrong!
[02:34:50] <Connor> X and Y are yellow too.
[02:35:10] <zeeshan|2> yea i f'ed up the diagram
[02:35:14] <zeeshan|2> i changed wiring a bit after
[02:35:19] <bobo_> L1 or L2 to neutral =120VAC , L1 to L2 ====220 VAC
[02:35:36] <zeeshan|2> sorry about that
[02:35:41] <zeeshan|2> http://c4.staticflickr.com/8/7471/16081023790_ea7e9061b0_h.jpg
[02:35:49] <zeeshan|2> i hope you guys can read that
[02:35:57] <zeeshan|2> this is the best image to describe power distribution
[02:36:08] <zeeshan|2> you can see l1 and l2 pretty clearly here
[02:36:25] <zeeshan|2> and the vfd theory goes out the window
[02:36:50] <zeeshan|2> cause x y , hyd pump vfd, coolant pump vfd, power supplies, fans, pc are all on l1
[02:37:10] <zeeshan|2> since the spindle vfd is 240v
[02:37:14] <zeeshan|2> its on both l1 and l2
[02:37:38] <Connor> I dunno.. I think I would call it a night and see what AMC says.
[02:38:35] <zeeshan|2> agreed! :)
[02:41:49] <bobo_> zeeshan if you call AMC might be worth while to have revision # of bds
[02:46:54] <zeeshan|2> i emailed em
[02:46:56] <zeeshan|2> if they dont respond
[02:46:57] <zeeshan|2> ill call
[02:47:04] <zeeshan|2> email is nice cause i can send pics
[02:48:31] <bobo_> zeeshan been able to get those special fittings yet ----lub sys plumbing ?
[02:48:37] <zeeshan|2> yes
[02:48:39] <zeeshan|2> in 2 weeks
[02:48:40] <zeeshan|2> ill get them
[02:48:49] <zeeshan|2> they are non-standard fittings
[02:48:54] <zeeshan|2> 100% sure abou that
[02:49:00] <zeeshan|2> i ordered 10 of each
[02:49:00] <zeeshan|2> lol
[02:49:09] <zeeshan|2> i dont want to deal with this nonsense again
[02:49:49] <bobo_> just love it -----tell them it's for my heart-lung mach
[02:50:09] <zeeshan|2> Non-Warranty $323 $100 Repair price not to exceed $323 Warranty $0 $100 There is no charge for warranty repairs, however if there are no problems found (NPF), there is a processing fee of $100
[02:50:12] <zeeshan|2> interesting
[02:50:22] <zeeshan|2> amc will repair drives for $323
[02:54:20] <bobo_> I bet they know the switcher design is on the very edge
[02:56:45] <zeeshan|2> clearly its a dog shit drive
[02:56:50] <zeeshan|2> for it to explode like this
[02:57:00] <zeeshan|2> i might just end up getting a yaskawa or something
[02:57:21] <bobo_> hang on
[02:57:50] <zeeshan|2> i mean if a VFD can detect a short
[02:57:52] <zeeshan|2> in a motor coil
[02:58:05] <zeeshan|2> i don't see why this drive cant.
[03:00:01] <bobo_> my thought is ----set up the AC input for a brown out voltage level ----it shuts down and stays off for say 5min
[03:00:46] <zeeshan|2> shouldn't have to man
[03:01:11] <zeeshan|2> i give up for the night :)
[03:01:13] <zeeshan|2> gnite!!
[03:01:41] <bobo_> turn on is via resistor to limit inrush-------charging the DC caps
[03:04:28] <anarchos2> so I see in the linuxcnc.org gmoccapy thread there's a 1.5.0 version. I'm running the latest 2.6.5 but my gmoccapy is 1.3.6....do i have to update it independently of linuxcnc?
[05:50:38] <witnit> micges I tried to do ad you said yesterday but i dont know how to get SMP PREEMT, to install it fresh from iso means i can't do build-dep linuxcnc without changing to rtai.. so now i have the dependencies built how do i go back to SMP PREEMT
[05:54:21] <witnit> "dvipng" was the file it could not aquire it seems
[05:55:09] <micges> don't make build-dep, just simply configure and make
[05:55:11] <witnit> ohhh k, I think i got it :/ just sudo apt-get install kernal?
[05:55:24] <witnit> oh, but it would not build
[05:55:29] <witnit> it needed lots of things
[05:55:57] <witnit> I did sudo apt-get install build-dep linuxcnc
[05:56:12] <micges> it will print what you need to install
[05:56:32] <micges> hold on
[05:56:43] <micges> do you have preempt kjernel installed?
[05:57:09] <witnit> yeah
[05:57:20] <micges> switch to it
[05:57:21] <witnit> I did apt-get updaate/upgrade
[05:57:39] <witnit> and had to reinstall it after build-dep linuxcnc
[05:58:11] <micges> forget build-dep, it works only under rtai
[05:58:48] <witnit> but it would not let me do "make" without alot of items
[05:59:34] <micges> does build-dep install needed packets besides other kernel?
[05:59:50] <witnit> libudev-dev not found
[06:00:35] <witnit> i dont know much about what im doing :/
[06:01:01] <micges> are you under rt-preempt kernel?
[06:03:37] <witnit_cnc> Linux debian 3.4-9-rtai-686-pae #1 SMP PREEMPT Debian 3.4.55-4linuxcnc i686 GNU/Linux
[06:03:46] <witnit_cnc> correct or did ruin things again ahahaha
[06:05:41] <micges> install linux-image-3.2.0-4-rt-686-pae
[06:05:54] <micges> it's available in synapti
[06:05:56] <micges> c
[06:13:10] <witnit> how does one know without coming here and asking you specifically. these types of things such as which kernal and why i play ./configure with a special option for my needs
[06:16:36] <micges> I know, Ipromise I'll make wiki for it
[06:16:55] <witnit> yeah.. but how do you know
[06:17:28] <witnit> like what circle of knowledge do i need to be aware of to not need a wiki for it
[06:20:38] <micges> I know which kernel becouse I've choosed it making hm2_eth driver
[06:30:19] <witnit> okay it seems after doing install libudev-dev the ./configure was fine
[06:36:15] <witnit> im not entirely sure what compiling is, but i been doing alot of it lately =D
[06:43:14] <witnit> micges thank you very much for making the driver, it is very much appreciated
[06:44:14] <micges> welcome
[06:44:31] <micges> remind me what board do you have?
[06:45:08] <witnit> 7i92
[06:50:57] <witnit> I had this idea for an online configurator through mesa, you pick the card combination you want through an online form and it pre-flashes the cards and is supplied with a bootable usb linuxcnc (too much?)
[06:52:42] <micges> yeah that would be neat
[06:53:23] <witnit> it would sell
[06:53:24] <witnit> hahahah
[06:57:52] <witnit> just get yourself a robotic arm and large programming bank with a couple hundred of each card. A boxing machine and shipping labeler then get to programming
[07:19:08] <Tom_itx> micges thanks for your help yesterday
[07:21:26] <micges> welcome
[07:53:56] <jthornton> I placed an order with Reprapdiscount on Monday and it is supposed to be here today... how do they ship that fast from Hong Kong when it takes 3 days to ship from SE MO to NE AR and that is only 150 miles
[07:57:52] <malcom2073_> DHL rocks?
[08:17:49] <JT-Shop> FedEx
[09:19:09] <malcom2073_> Huh, well that's interesting
[09:20:16] <jack16> wut?
[09:23:46] <malcom2073_> Fedex is getting faster
[09:42:20] <CaptHindsight> tjtr33: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lYczDsj0ATI in Taipei today
[09:47:37] <PetefromTn_> yeah In saw that earlier.. Unbelievable and tragic
[09:52:38] <Deejay> hi mister PetefromTn_!
[09:53:06] <CaptHindsight> it's in a densely populated area, the river runs through town
[09:53:08] <PetefromTn_> HEY DEEJAY!
[09:53:33] <CaptHindsight> makes sense that the pilot aimed for it vs the surrounding buildings
[09:53:38] <Deejay> :-)
[09:54:24] <PetefromTn_> yeah well considering the densely populated area he did a fantastic job getting it to the river
[09:57:46] <PetefromTn_> altho honestly from the looks of that video it does not appear he had a great deal of control at that point...
[10:06:58] <jack16> It's miracle that some passengers survived
[10:13:28] <PetefromTn_> yeah it is amazing. One video I saw that showed the wreck panned down to the river and that bridge is really high up from the water level below. Amazing that anyone survived.
[10:19:33] <mozmck> PCW: does the hm2_eth driver support the 7i92?
[10:22:31] <witnit> ... seems to work, im bad at this and i have it talking to axis gui
[10:22:51] <micges> mozmck: yes
[10:22:54] <mozmck> witnit: a 7i92?
[10:22:56] <witnit> yes
[10:23:09] <witnit> i still dont have it right though
[10:23:16] <witnit> its telling me things i dont understand
[10:23:19] <mozmck> ok, thanks. I was looking at the driver and didn't see any mention of it
[10:23:48] <witnit> i hear there is a wiki in the making for it :)
[10:24:14] <mozmck> is there a link?
[10:24:52] <witnit> not yet, but in the last 24 hours micges has given me enough links and input to get it working :)
[10:25:06] <witnit> if you want to look at irc logs
[10:25:18] <gene80> Hey everybody!
[10:25:25] <witnit> hello gene
[10:26:31] <mozmck> ok, thanks! I'm new to mesa hardware here. I'll check the irc logs.
[10:26:37] <mozmck> zlog
[10:27:38] <gene80> this is a CF, first quality, I am ssh'd into my mills machine, and running konversation on it because the konversation from the wheezy (hybride.iso) is hard coded for only debian lists.
[10:29:22] <gene80> I lost the main drive in the house machine last friday, and have been running on a couple houirs sleep a night, trying to get an install that will actually run from one of these new 4k-sector disks. Right PIMA
[10:29:24] <witnit> i need a map for all the sshing i do, I reallly like byobu, do you use it?
[10:30:56] * JT-Shop hates waiting and waiting
[10:31:15] <gene80> So now in my attempts to make kmail run again, I've installed a non rt amd64 kernel as some of my kmail folders are north of 5Gb! kmail crash, allocate failures.
[10:32:23] <gene80> But, I just found that linuxcnc kicks back for lack of a rtai patched kernel, won't even get to picking a sim mode.
[10:32:31] <mozmck> gene80: what distribution are you running?
[10:33:51] <gene80> So, has Seb managed to build a replacement (hybride.iso from lcnc's site) that is rtai AND PAE or better yet, a full amd64?
[10:34:55] <gene80> This is your version of 12.04 LTS I think, sort of wheezyish.
[10:35:55] <mozmck> for my main computer with email and all, I run Linux Mint 17.1 and I just compile linuxcnc for uspace to run sim
[10:37:27] <mozmck> The reason linuxcnc won't run for you is that it was compiled for rtai and requires those realtime modules to run. You have to compile it for uspace to run it with a non-rtai kernel.
[10:38:20] <gene80> I haven't added that repo to my sources.list yet, I don't think this has been a big whirlwind of trying to find a distro whose partitioner knows about 4k/sector disks
[10:39:37] <mozmck> what repo?
[10:39:39] <gene80> that would be "deb http://linuxcnc.org wheezy base 2.7-uspace"?
[10:40:15] <mozmck> oh, I'm not sure. you might have to get it from buildbot.linuxcnc.org
[10:40:41] <gene80> lemme run synaptic up the flagpole & check, brb
[10:42:31] <JT-Shop> tjb1, bulldog and ramps 1.4 have arrived!
[10:42:44] <PetefromTn_> WOW that vacuum fixture with the gaskets really seems to hold the parts downz!!
[10:44:10] <Rab> PetefromTn_, cool! Are you using a compressed air venturi>
[10:48:54] <JT-Shop> tjb1, is there some place to find the instructions on them?
[10:48:58] <cpresser_> my machine has an absolute encoder. so i want to disable homing. for now i have 'immediate homing', but thats not what i want
[10:49:22] <CaptHindsight> gene80: 64b RTAI has been working for 6+ months
[10:49:34] <gene80> Ok, now have the uspace installed. But I don't see a newer 3.4.9-rtai-pae kernel yet.
[10:50:04] <gene80> Capthindsight: where can I get that kernel from?
[10:50:22] <CaptHindsight> gene80: but you have to build it all from source
[10:50:36] <gene80> which repo
[10:50:59] <CaptHindsight> https://github.com/NTULINUX/RTAI
[10:54:30] <gene80> Loverly, gotta install git first :) Wrote that down, thanks
[10:59:32] <gene80> Actually, iceweazil pulled the zip just fine. So I'll have something to play with if & when I get email working, thank you
[11:29:47] <PetefromTn_> anyone know of a local source for vacuum pump oil?
[11:30:12] <cradek> good lord, do not advise gene to build rtai and a kernel from source
[11:30:16] <Brunetty> Local?
[11:30:17] <cradek> that's insane
[11:30:56] <cradek> if he's installed linuxcnc's uspace build he should use the debian -rt kernel
[11:31:11] <PetefromTn_> yeah IE not ordering online
[11:32:57] <PetefromTn_> I think O'reilly's has it.
[11:33:13] <pcw_home> with uspace you can run rt with a stock kernel (at 20 Hz or so)
[11:34:03] <PetefromTn_> cradek LOL
[11:34:04] <mozmck> that will keep him busy, but might increase list traffic :)
[11:34:48] <Connor> PetefromTn_: Video? :)
[11:35:22] <PetefromTn_> video of what?
[11:35:35] <Connor> the vacuum fixtures.
[11:35:40] <PetefromTn_> Oh man
[11:35:46] <PetefromTn_> yeah I will try to do that
[11:35:48] <Connor> duh.
[11:35:53] <PetefromTn_> but I got a little problem
[11:36:15] <pcw_home> auto parts stores often have vacuum oil
[11:36:50] <Connor> what's the problem ?
[11:37:10] <PetefromTn_> the gaskets I bought are either porous slightly or something is leaking because the pump sucked up some coolant while the cutting was happening
[11:37:25] <Connor> Ick
[11:37:25] <PetefromTn_> the vacuum fixture holds the parts down like gangbusters tho
[11:37:36] <PetefromTn_> so I am trying to decide what to do about it
[11:37:55] <PetefromTn_> I THINK I can put an air compressor big water trap inline
[11:37:55] <pcw_home> non detergent 30 wt motor oils should OK also
[11:38:06] <PetefromTn_> Really?
[11:38:08] <Connor> would a little vacuum chamber in line help ?
[11:38:11] <PetefromTn_> I thought it would combust
[11:38:33] <PetefromTn_> yeah it probably would
[11:38:42] <PetefromTn_> I have that bigass air cylinder here
[11:38:47] <Connor> air compressor water trap same idea.
[11:39:11] <PetefromTn_> either way the parts were looking glorious!!
[11:39:31] <PetefromTn_> and the parts held down even with the coolant getting sucked up throughout the program
[11:39:31] <Connor> which air pump you end up getting / using ?
[11:39:44] <PetefromTn_> I got the little AC one from HF
[11:39:56] <Connor> which one?
[11:40:11] <PetefromTn_> the fixture is working beautifully tho which is amazing since it is the first one I ever made
[11:40:21] <PetefromTn_> just gotta do something about the coolant
[11:41:06] <Connor> They have the 2.5 CFM and 3 CFM 2 Stage, and the Venturi version.
[11:41:13] <PetefromTn_> 25
[11:41:17] <PetefromTn_> 2,5
[11:41:20] <PetefromTn_> 2.5!!
[11:41:26] <Connor> ROFL
[11:41:44] <Connor> I never understand why the have 2 sku's for the same part.
[11:41:57] <Connor> 61245 and 98076
[11:42:09] <Connor> and 61176 / 60805
[11:42:28] <Rab> I think it might be for different factory sources.
[11:42:51] <PetefromTn_> http://i.imgur.com/qe9c7EG.jpg http://i.imgur.com/1G5AYEn.jpg
[11:43:07] <Rab> Sometimes different skus have different packaging, but the items are identical. Sometimes they vary slightly.
[11:43:42] <PetefromTn_> so right now I gotta run into town and get some more compressor oil so I can empty the vacuum pump of the coolant and put some fresh stuff in there
[11:43:53] <Connor> PetefromTn_: why does the center groves go all the way to the edge ?
[11:44:00] <PetefromTn_> and I need to setup some kind of water trap or something to keep it from happening again
[11:44:21] <Connor> You could make a trap out of PVC
[11:44:35] <PetefromTn_> I thought it looked pretty that way.....Shit I dunno man LOL
[11:45:04] <PetefromTn_> I just wanted to make sure the vacuum reached the gasket area and I got a good suck down all around the part
[11:45:19] <PetefromTn_> they are only .04 deep and the slot is .08 deep for a .125 gasket
[11:45:40] <Connor> 2 Encaps and some pvc.. install 2 connectors at the top..
[11:45:58] <Connor> or one at top and one on the side.
[11:46:02] <PetefromTn_> I tried putting the vacuum pump up high and it definitely slowed down the coolant but it still sucked it up slowly
[11:46:30] <PetefromTn_> there is enough in there now that the little sight window looks kinda green heh
[11:46:37] <PetefromTn_> damnit
[11:46:58] <PetefromTn_> and I was getting all excited about it :D
[11:47:40] <Connor> http://www.labconco.com/images/cms/large/7873400.jpg
[11:47:42] <Rab> Grainger have vacuum water separators which look just like compressed air separators...not sure what the difference is for vacuum.
[11:47:44] <Connor> something like that
[11:47:46] <PetefromTn_> gotta look at this air cylinder here and see if there is enough distance between where the air would come in and out..
[11:48:24] <PetefromTn_> yeah something like that with a little drain at the bottom should work.
[11:48:43] <PetefromTn_> honestly a compressor water trap SHOULD work fine.
[11:48:50] <PetefromTn_> as long as it is not a POS
[11:50:16] <PetefromTn_> the good news is once I get this sorted the fixture should work great. The parts were really solid on there and the cuts looked good but I forgot to change from the tabbed program I had before to the complete cutout program I needed AND I forgot to add a finish pass... What a shithead lOL
[11:52:56] <PetefromTn_> I would prefer something clear so I can monitor it to see if it is working so I don't have to keep dumping this pump oil..
[11:53:10] <PetefromTn_> which kind of rules out the big air cylinder..
[12:00:24] <jdh> acrylic tubing
[12:16:04] <ssi_> :I
[12:16:21] <ssi> jdh: any idea how easy it is to bend acrylic tubing?
[12:18:48] <Loetmichel> re @ home
[12:22:55] <Loetmichel> *update on my car: it developed another fault on the Breake test at mot/tuev: one brake fluid tube broke... I just got it back home, with the tuev test passed... and a new brake line... Cost: same 605 eur the Mechanic said yesterday... gave him 700, he didnt accept that, had to take one 50eur note back. :-)))
[12:25:11] <PetefromTn_> jeez man wish mechanics here were that good and honest
[12:25:47] <ssi> nice
[12:26:24] <ssi> this year when I got my annual done on the cherokee, I asked my IA how much I owed him. He said "I dunno, how much did we do last year?" I said "three hundred I think?" He says, "No, that's way too much. Give me two hundred"
[12:26:28] <ssi> wooo
[12:30:04] <PetefromTn_> nice
[12:30:33] <Loetmichel> ssi: wtih wasnt just Tuev/annual... it was 4 slightly used winter tyres, 2 new whisbones for the front axle, all new brake pads, exhaust rust holes welded, hole in the vaccum system found and mended AND tuev... and all for 605 eur... dirt cheap
[12:30:48] <Loetmichel> and he changed 5 light bulbs around the car that were dead ;-)
[12:31:14] <ssi> Loetmichel: this was annual on an aircraft, and it actually cost me quite a bit more but I did all the work myself :)
[12:31:18] <ssi> I just have a good IA
[12:31:27] <anonimasu> hmm, I hello
[12:31:31] <ssi> my very first annual on the cherokee, I took it to a scummy criminal of a mechanic
[12:31:34] <ssi> and he charged me $8800
[12:31:34] <anonimasu> mhm, I have a bit of a problem
[12:31:49] <anonimasu> where do I stick the aboslute data from my encoders?
[12:32:01] <anonimasu> if I want to use them for coordinate systen
[12:32:02] <anonimasu> if I want to use them for coordinate system
[12:32:42] <anonimasu> err sorry.. bit shitty keyboard.
[12:45:26] <Loetmichel> ssi: cherokee was a jeep in my imagination ;-)
[12:45:33] <ssi> easy mistake to make :)
[12:46:02] <Loetmichel> but as i sais: the tuev fee alone are ~180 eur
[12:46:48] <Loetmichel> and the mechanic had to buy the brake pads and the whisbones...(and some bulbs and the brake hydraulic line)
[12:47:18] <Loetmichel> so i think i would have spent 1800-2000 eur for the whole package at the "official" opel garage
[12:52:29] <PetefromTn_> Connor ya know man that is not a bad idea to MAKE a water trap really. A couple pipe caps, a length of large diameter tube and my 1/8 NPT tap and some glue and ot could be nice. Just wish I could do it with a see through tube I dunno
[12:54:21] <Connor> http://www.clearpvcpipe.com/
[12:54:55] <PetefromTn_> thats sweet but I am really looking for a Low cost local option so I can get these parts made soon..
[12:55:20] <Connor> yea. then normal pvc and just drain it before every use.
[12:55:47] <PetefromTn_> I did not try that other more O-ring type of gasket material it may just keep out the coolant with a good enough seal.
[12:55:59] <PetefromTn_> the bitch is ANY leak no matter how minute will suck up coolant
[12:56:13] <Connor> yup. You need a trap to be safe.
[12:56:26] <CaptHindsight> HF has those low cost see through filters with pipe threads on the inlet and outlet
[12:56:27] <PetefromTn_> and the way the machine floods these parts that is gonna happen about anywher around the part
[12:56:38] <CaptHindsight> they even have an easy to use drain
[12:56:39] <PetefromTn_> I considered a fuel filter
[12:57:02] <PetefromTn_> I am not sure if there is a LARGE fuel filter option that has two vertical ports
[12:57:26] <Rab> Seems like if coolant can get sucked in, so can metal particulates...possibly even worse for the pump.
[12:57:28] <PetefromTn_> instead of the more typical inline stype
[12:57:38] <PetefromTn_> sure
[12:57:44] <Rab> It might be worth it to have a filter after the water separator.
[12:57:51] <PetefromTn_> which is why a Filter/water trap would be good
[12:58:06] <PetefromTn_> I would prefer this pump to last me awhile LOL
[12:58:14] <Connor> http://www.harborfreight.com/12-in-standard-air-filter-68279.html
[12:59:00] <PetefromTn_> I suppose I should try using the rubber O-ring gasket here to see how it fares.
[12:59:13] <PetefromTn_> Amazing how hard the vacuum pulls the parts down really
[12:59:14] <pcw_home> dont want any debris either
[12:59:47] <PetefromTn_> I was surprised to watch it pull down so quickly like that and when I tried to physically push it off the fixture it was not happening
[13:00:34] <PetefromTn_> I am gonna wait to pick up the kids from school and then run into town to get the new Vacuum pump oil and see about some sort of off the shelf filter/seperator
[13:01:10] <Rab> Did you play with the vacuum pressure to find the threshold for reasonable hold-down force? Reducing the vacuum might result in less coolant contamination.
[13:01:25] <PetefromTn_> honestly I cannot yet.
[13:01:32] <PetefromTn_> I ordered a brand new vacuum gauge
[13:01:44] <PetefromTn_> but the seller on ebay sent me a freakin' check valve by mistake
[13:01:59] <PetefromTn_> and now I have to order another gauge from someone else
[13:02:17] <PetefromTn_> I was just doing a test run here of the system with the lines plumbed straight in.
[13:02:40] <PetefromTn_> so I really have no idea what the vacuum pressure actually was
[13:02:53] <Rab> Keep the check valve, maybe you can make a vacuum reservoir out of an air tank and reduce pump duty cycle.
[13:02:54] <PetefromTn_> whatever it is was quite sufficient tho LOL
[13:03:45] <pcw_home> is it water based coolant?
[13:03:47] <PetefromTn_> http://www.kelvin.com/mm5/graphics/00000001/500026.jpg I have one of these up in the attic
[13:04:00] <PetefromTn_> yeah it is a solubile oil
[13:04:07] <PetefromTn_> trim sol
[13:04:27] <pcw_home> so you wil get moisture in your pump :-(
[13:04:47] <PetefromTn_> yeah unless I fix the problem with a trap or something
[13:05:30] <PetefromTn_> I suppose I could machine the parts dry with compressed air but really wanted to make this system work as intended
[13:05:44] <PetefromTn_> that is one nice thing about the venturi pump I suppose
[13:05:54] <PetefromTn_> no worries about this
[13:06:06] <PetefromTn_> just loosing a little bit of coolant in the process
[13:09:39] <Connor> Confirmed: FCC Will Try To Regulate Internet Under Title II
[13:10:26] <ssi> ugh
[13:11:34] <Connor> ssi: what's wrong with that ?
[13:11:55] <ssi> if you don't see anything wrong with it then I have zero interest in discussing it with you :)
[13:12:29] <Connor> I don't really like regulation. But.. I REALLY hate what the Cable and Phone company's are doing.
[13:14:23] <ssi> I'm not crazy about it either, but trading the option to deal with one company or another for the overwhelming burden of government regulation is incredibly foolish
[13:14:36] <ssi> the market was already providing a solution to comcast
[13:14:40] <ssi> so much for that
[13:15:31] <Connor> Okay.. So.. which one... http://www.grizzly.com/products/10-x-22-Bench-Top-Metal-Lathe/G0602 http://www.grizzly.com/products/11-x-26-Bench-Lathe-w-Gearbox/G9972Z http://www.grizzly.com/products/10-x-22-Variable-Speed-Lathe/G0752
[13:15:44] <ssi> what do you intend to do with it
[13:15:47] <ssi> keep it manual or convert it?
[13:16:03] <Connor> Manual for a long while.. then possibly CNC it.
[13:16:34] <Connor> The 60752 is the G0602 with VFD 1HP in it.
[13:16:43] <ssi> yeah I wouldn't do that at all
[13:16:50] <ssi> I'd get the 602 and get my own motor and vfd
[13:16:56] <ssi> it'll be cheaper and you'll be able to get nicer parts
[13:17:06] <Connor> The 69972Z is 11 x 26 vs 10 x 22
[13:17:15] <Connor> G9972Z
[13:17:33] <ssi> I dunno anything bout the 9972
[13:17:39] <ssi> looks pretty much the same as the 602
[13:18:00] <Connor> look a little closer at it.. back in a few
[13:18:02] <ssi> you just have to decide if the extra bed size is worth the money
[13:18:14] <ssi> or you could just buy my already converted 602 :)
[13:20:07] <_methods> well if douche baghehe
[13:20:10] <_methods> oops
[13:24:54] * zeeshan|2 is trying to talk to amc :/
[13:25:39] <zeeshan|2> i talked to a local sales person for them
[13:25:42] <zeeshan|2> and this is what he said:
[13:25:54] <zeeshan|2> Is it possible when you powered the Z axis the motor dropped the load and there was energy driven back into the drive? Is the brake still engaged when you powered the Z axis drive? I can run the pictures by AMC to see if they can identify the damaged area as this might help diagnose the issue.
[13:27:32] <zeeshan|2> http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=2fd_1423052956
[13:27:35] <zeeshan|2> this made me laugh
[13:28:43] <pcw_home> paid by the hour?
[13:28:45] <MrSunshine> hmm .. think about it .. how much in our world and our technology wouldnt have been if someone didnt invent the lathe =)
[13:29:34] <zeeshan|2> lol
[13:30:58] <zeeshan|2> the motor doesnt move at all visually
[13:31:18] <zeeshan|2> when i remove power from the drive
[13:31:42] <zeeshan|2> the only thing i can think of
[13:31:51] <zeeshan|2> is there is no delay of brake re-engagement
[13:32:15] <zeeshan|2> it instantly re-engages
[13:35:39] <PetefromTn_> for that money I would be looking for a used 12x36 like I used to have...
[13:37:17] <CaptHindsight> reminds me of the bicycle repairman sketch on Python
[13:37:34] <zeeshan|2> PetefromTn_: he prolly doesnt have the space
[13:37:40] <PetefromTn_> Okay just drained the oil from the vacuum pump, er at least what I could get out of it. Lots of nice Green oil LOL
[13:37:57] <PetefromTn_> I put the remainder of the oil from the container that came with the lathe in it
[13:38:03] <PetefromTn_> and of course it is not enough
[13:38:08] <PetefromTn_> so Gotta go get some more oil
[13:38:35] <PetefromTn_> might just shake it around a bit and drain it again with the HF oil in it to clean as much of the coolant out as possible
[13:38:44] <PetefromTn_> then put the new oil in it
[13:38:55] <PetefromTn_> I blew the crap out of the lines to the fixture
[13:39:18] <PetefromTn_> made a nice showery waterfall in the machine for a second that was pretty
[13:39:47] <PetefromTn_> then I blew it out for another couple minutes and blew off the fixture some more
[13:40:14] <zeeshan|2> lol
[13:40:18] <PetefromTn_> I removed the porous gaskets and installed some of the other type I got which feels like a soft O-ring material
[13:40:46] <PetefromTn_> and tried to make the cuts line up where the two ends meet as good as I can
[13:41:06] <PetefromTn_> gonna head into town to get the new oil and some kinda trap here in a few.
[13:41:14] <PetefromTn_> Oh well live and learn right
[13:42:02] <PetefromTn_> zeeshan|2 ;)
[13:53:24] <Jymmm> or run for politics
[13:54:33] <Jymmm> What is the smallest gas (propane or butane) continaer available that I can connect a line to?
[13:55:33] <Jymmm> I could use a bic lighter, but no idea on how to connect a line to it.
[13:56:11] <Jymmm> and an electric valve of equiv size
[13:57:03] <PetefromTn_> you tryin' to light a giant Spliff hehe
[13:57:38] <Jymmm> No, more like a portable bunsen burner sorta thing
[13:57:59] <Jymmm> electronically controlled
[13:58:32] <Jymmm> It's a SFX thing
[14:00:50] <_methods> you look at camping butane tanks?
[14:01:08] <_methods> http://www.ebay.com/itm/Butane-Nozzle-Cans-To-Screw-Gas-Screw-Bottle-Stove-Adapter-Converter-For-Camping-/251291436175
[14:01:13] <Jymmm> _methods: example? link?
[14:01:18] <Jymmm> loking...
[14:01:34] <_methods> maybe not so good example one sec
[14:01:44] <_methods> http://www.ebay.com/itm/New-G-Works-Butane-Adapter-Duralumin-40g-Convert-Cylinder-Type-To-Screw-Outdoor-/321643526953
[14:02:16] <Jymmm> Ah, I have sorta the first one, hang on...
[14:02:38] <_methods> http://www.ebay.com/itm/Triangle-Three-Leg-Butane-Gas-Stove-Adaptor-Nozzle-Bottle-Screwgate-Transfer-/161041164332
[14:02:49] <Jymmm> http://cache.backpackinglight.com/backpackinglight/user_uploads/1326809427_55315.jpg
[14:03:05] <_methods> yep
[14:03:07] <Jymmm> yep, that's what I have.
[14:03:43] <Jymmm> I was hoping like a CO2 BB gun soze, but I think the 8oz can would be a simpler option, I'll just have to "up size a bit
[14:03:48] <_methods> ahh
[14:04:01] <_methods> well i think they sell like "pancake" butane cans
[14:04:02] <Jymmm> Ok, now, a valve?
[14:04:15] <Jymmm> Yeah they do, for $$$$
[14:04:24] <_methods> ahh
[14:04:29] <Jymmm> VERY expensice for the isobrutane
[14:04:56] <Jymmm> 4x 8oz cans = $5.
[14:05:19] <Jymmm> 1x 6oz isobritane pancake = $12
[14:06:22] <_methods> i can't remember what i used to use in my whisperlite
[14:06:37] <_methods> liquid fuel
[14:10:48] <Jymmm> Well, 32oz of butane for $5 works for me
[14:11:30] <jdh> ssi: small stuff bends well with heat. fir this use just cut and use fittings
[14:11:46] <Jymmm> I just need an electric vavle now
[14:14:05] <Rab> Jymmm, maybe you can refit a microtorch?
[14:15:04] <Rab> Rat Shack used to sell a bi-fuel pocket torch which used cartridges, but they weren't cheap.
[14:15:27] <Jymmm> Rab: Ah, I remember those, yeah pricy.
[14:15:42] <Jymmm> I think the oz can will work KISS.
[14:15:48] <Jymmm> 8oz
[14:16:33] <Jymmm> This guy is nuts http://youtu.be/kQb1NTi0Xg8
[14:18:05] <Jymmm> OHHHHHH, I think the surplus place has some. Made for air, but wouldn't butane be fine too?
[14:18:32] <Jymmm> like these http://www.ascovalve.com/Applications/Products/MiniatureSolenoidValves.aspx
[14:18:53] <Jymmm> with a 8 port block (I forget the real name of them)
[14:18:53] <Rab> This is me not offering an opinion for liability reasons.
[14:19:12] <Jymmm> lol, fuck liability
[14:19:41] <Jymmm> are there special valves for flammable gas over air?
[14:20:16] <Jymmm> leak test, blah blah blah
[14:21:50] <Rab> Most valves will tell you what they're rated for in the spec sheet.
[14:22:33] <Rab> This guy's video plays like he's dropping some prison knowledge.
[14:22:55] <Rab> "If you don't have a file, you can just rub it on some concrete."
[14:23:07] <Jymmm> lol
[14:27:14] <Jymmm> Love his engines too... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=09R6teBOlco
[14:31:09] <Jymmm> _methods: I found my electric ignighter. And guess what???
[14:34:20] <roycroft> what kind of electric igniter are you talking about?
[14:34:33] <roycroft> i'm looking for some right now and having a hard time finding what i want
[14:34:49] <Jymmm> roycroft: Heh, this kind... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hCqxjRrFhmk
[14:34:54] <Jymmm> roycroft: AND
[14:35:19] <Jymmm> roycroft: I already have that exact PCB sitting on my desk =)
[14:35:24] <roycroft> that's probably not what i need
[14:35:38] <roycroft> i need to light some propane burners without bending down and sticking a long match near them
[14:35:58] <Jymmm> You can get a manual bbw one
[14:36:02] <Jymmm> bbq
[14:36:19] <roycroft> i've never been impressed with the reliability of the piezo units for barbeques
[14:36:28] <[cube]> could use a piece of nichrome wire
[14:36:42] <[cube]> hook it up to a wallwart
[14:36:45] <Jymmm> roycroft: theres one on my water heater http://www.homedepot.com/catalog/productImages/400/23/2380ac34-bb8f-4b25-a366-4d2d0881c567_400.jpg
[14:36:46] <roycroft> i've found some that are battery-operated, but usually they are "kits" with way more than i need
[14:37:07] <Jymmm> roycroft: for how much?
[14:37:21] <roycroft> $60-$100
[14:37:35] <roycroft> i've only started looking for one
[14:37:48] <[cube]> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TCHpyNAYekg
[14:37:55] <Jymmm> [cube]: Ni-Chrome only gets around 2100F, I'd be relictant on igniting gas
[14:38:03] <roycroft> so i'm not discouraged yet, but when you mentioned one i thought i'd ask
[14:38:20] <Jymmm> roycroft: try a fly swatter, it does a nice arc
[14:38:54] <roycroft> bbiab - time to go to lunch
[14:40:38] <Jymmm> [cube]: I have around 50K feet of various Ni-Chrome. As you see in that video, it takes a few moments to get up to temp. I rather not have gas released that long unburned.
[14:41:19] <Jymmm> [cube]: GREAT for electric matches though =)
[14:51:45] <Jymmm> [cube]: I've found that aromatic fuels do not like to ignite in colder (<60F) temperatures very well.
[14:52:03] <[cube]> hmm
[14:52:26] <[cube]> im planning to build a propane furnace in a couple weeks
[14:52:48] <Connor> a 12x36 is just too big.
[14:53:02] <Jymmm> [cube]: Take a bic lighter, put outside in <60F and hard tome lighting it. Toss in your pocket for 20 minutes, no problem.
[14:53:09] <[cube]> was goign to make the burner removeable
[14:53:12] <Connor> I like that the 12x36 has the power corssfeed.
[14:53:17] <[cube]> and just light it by hand
[14:53:26] <[cube]> then put it back in its hole
[14:53:35] <Jymmm> [cube]: Maybe one of these http://www.homedepot.com/catalog/productImages/400/23/2380ac34-bb8f-4b25-a366-4d2d0881c567_400.jpg
[14:53:51] <[cube]> remote igniter would be nice tho
[14:54:10] <[cube]> yeah i've got one of those lying around
[14:54:21] <[cube]> have you noticed how expensive those are new??
[14:54:22] <Jymmm> [cube]: $13 for the "universal one http://www.homedepot.com/p/Brinkmann-Universal-Push-Button-Ignitor-812-7221-S/203016481
[14:54:23] <[cube]> like $20
[14:54:36] <[cube]> hmm
[14:54:43] <[cube]> I'm in canada
[14:55:05] <Jymmm> [cube]: still beats a match
[14:55:13] <Jymmm> Try Canadian tire
[14:55:18] <[cube]> i like the big lighter idea
[14:55:20] <[cube]> just ripit apart
[14:55:31] <[cube]> use the internal piezo thing
[14:55:46] <Jymmm> Not piezo, high voltage
[14:55:57] <[cube]> ah
[14:55:59] <[cube]> Jymm... what do you think of this...
[14:56:09] <Jymmm> piezo uses quartz crystel
[14:56:18] <[cube]> I purchased some stainless temperature probes
[14:56:27] <[cube]> i beleive they're rated for 700 C
[14:56:30] <[cube]> K type i think
[14:56:42] <[cube]> im wondering if they'll hold up in in he furnace
[14:56:52] <[cube]> or if they'll get destroyed
[14:56:53] <mozmck> micges: in the manpage for hm2_eth it gives lines to put in the file /etc/iptables/rules.4 - should that be the only thing in the file or in addition to what is already there?
[14:57:04] <[cube]> they were so cheap i dont really care if i break one
[14:57:09] <Jymmm> [cube]: 1300F seems a bit low to me
[14:57:16] <[cube]> yeah
[14:57:25] <[cube]> definitely on the threshold
[14:57:30] <[cube]> would be nice to have a temp readout tho
[14:57:32] <[cube]> even if crude
[14:57:41] <Jymmm> [cube]: My cheap IR Gun reads that
[14:57:46] <Jymmm> and I love it
[14:57:53] <[cube]> yeah i've got one as well
[14:57:57] <[cube]> and a thermal cam
[14:58:07] <Jymmm> bastard
[14:58:11] <mozmck> micges: my rules.4 already had :INPUT ACCEPT [0:0] and :FORWARD ACCEPT [0:0], should those stay there?
[14:58:21] <Jymmm> I SO want a thermal cam
[14:58:32] <[cube]> not sure if you were here when discussing the other night
[14:58:42] <[cube]> its a cheap $200 phoen attachment
[14:58:45] <[cube]> but works great!
[14:58:50] <[cube]> android or iphone
[14:58:53] <[cube]> seek thermal
[14:58:54] <Jymmm> ???????????????????
[14:59:02] <[cube]> takes video too
[14:59:14] <Jymmm> link?
[14:59:19] <Jymmm> to device
[14:59:34] <[cube]> http://www.amazon.com/Seek-UW-AAA-Thermal-Imaging-Connector/dp/B00NYWAHHM
[14:59:38] <micges> mozmck: I 'think' it should be only rule
[15:00:47] <mozmck> micges: ok, thanks - I'll remove those two lines.
[15:00:56] <Connor> Interesting... The 11x26 G9972Z has a powerfeed lever... I don't see anything like that on the G0602.. just the halfnuts.
[15:01:02] <[cube]> btw Jymmm, here is the probe I got: http://www.ebay.ca/itm/3M-Stainless-Steel-Thermocouple-K-type-Probe-Sensor-High-Temperature-/251505355433?ssPageName=ADME:L:OC:CA:3160
[15:01:22] <[cube]> i'm going to drilla hole and stick it right in the center of the forge
[15:01:28] <[cube]> and cross my fingers :P
[15:01:43] <[cube]> oh there we go
[15:01:52] <[cube]> Operating Temperature:-100 - 1250 degrees C
[15:02:01] <Jymmm> [cube]: http://www.ebay.ca/itm/3M-Stainless-Steel-Thermocouple-K-type-100mm-Probe-Sensor-High-Temperature/111519913899?_trksid=p2047675.c100005.m1851&_trkparms=aid%3D222007%26algo%3DSIC.MBE%26ao%3D1%26asc%3D20140620091118%26meid%3Dac085a9445df4b788f4de6c57ac1b0a1%26pid%3D100005%26rk%3D2%26rkt%3D6%26sd%3D251505355433&rt=nc
[15:02:12] <[cube]> yeah same one
[15:02:15] <[cube]> I bought 2
[15:02:17] <Jymmm> [cube]: 1200C = 2200F
[15:02:28] <[cube]> yeah
[15:02:33] <Jymmm> not the same I don't think
[15:02:41] <[cube]> basically it stops working when it melts :P
[15:03:07] <Jymmm> lol
[15:03:09] <[cube]> i dont plan to go above 1000
[15:03:17] <[cube]> hottest I'll go is for melting copper
[15:03:20] <Jymmm> C or F ?
[15:03:22] <[cube]> C
[15:03:43] <Jymmm> But your furnace / crucible will
[15:03:43] <[cube]> i will have forced air though
[15:03:47] <[cube]> but on a regulator
[15:04:06] <[cube]> yeah, if it breaks no harm done
[15:04:10] <[cube]> few bucks
[15:04:43] <Jymmm> Yeah, but I'm saying to melt copper, yur furnace /crucible will get much hotter than the copper will.
[15:05:01] <[cube]> hmm yeah
[15:05:07] <[cube]> its mainly for aluminum
[15:05:17] <[cube]> and I'm building a massive steel crucible
[15:05:20] <Jymmm> and copper is a mther fucker to melt
[15:05:32] <[cube]> from a really thick piece of pipe that was used as a satellite dish stand
[15:06:00] <[cube]> yeah ther other day i was playing with mapp torch and melting copper wire in some fire bricks
[15:06:03] <[cube]> verry finnicky
[15:06:08] <[cube]> but i did get it to melt
[15:06:41] <[cube]> very inconsistent
[15:06:48] <Jymmm> I dont' play with MAPP much, Just have 100LBS of propane. Though I could to an oxy-propane I suppose
[15:07:14] <[cube]> yeah the furnace will be propane
[15:07:16] <Jymmm> burns very clean
[15:07:26] <[cube]> when i get good enough i'll build a second one out of bricks
[15:07:36] <Jymmm> =
[15:07:39] <[cube]> and use burn oil
[15:07:39] <Jymmm> =)
[15:07:42] <[cube]> for melting steel
[15:07:49] <Jymmm> Ewwww
[15:07:56] <[cube]> just for fun :P
[15:08:01] <[cube]> to see if i can do it
[15:08:05] <Jymmm> just the nastiness you'll have to breath in
[15:08:15] <[cube]> yea?
[15:08:21] <Jymmm> Have a P95 fill face repirator
[15:08:29] <[cube]> hmm k
[15:08:33] <Jymmm> P95, not N95
[15:08:51] <Jymmm> P95 will filter out areomatics
[15:08:59] <Jymmm> and solvents
[15:09:11] <Jymmm> and bleach (as I found out)
[15:09:23] <[cube]> yeah i'll do some research
[15:09:48] <Jymmm> HF sells a half mask, and it works great
[15:09:55] <Jymmm> but no HF up there
[15:10:05] <[cube]> i bought a nice alumized suit
[15:10:08] <[cube]> used from the UK
[15:10:21] <[cube]> *aluminized
[15:10:38] <Jymmm> Just make sure to protect the toes and shirt collar =)
[15:11:47] <[cube]> hehe
[15:12:24] <[cube]> i need to pick up some decent gloves/mitts
[15:12:35] <[cube]> this is the suit:
[15:12:36] <[cube]> http://imgur.com/a/nIPkm
[15:12:53] <[cube]> 80% asbestos!
[15:13:35] <Jymmm> Now you REALY need a respirator
[15:13:40] <[cube]> lol
[15:13:57] <Jymmm> I wouldn't he handle that, much less wear one w/o it
[15:14:18] <[cube]> really eh
[15:14:28] <Jymmm> fuck no.
[15:14:34] <Jymmm> AND
[15:14:47] <Jymmm> I'd wear a tyvek bunny suit before putting that on
[15:15:19] * Deejay had to google that
[15:15:29] <Jymmm> http://www.officedepot.com/a/products/450778/Tyvek-Bunny-Suit-X-Large/
[15:15:31] <[cube]> u sure it's dangerous?
[15:15:47] <Jymmm> [cube]: if you like cancer
[15:16:27] <[cube]> yikes
[15:16:27] <Jymmm> [cube]: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mesothelioma
[15:17:16] <Jymmm> Asbestose is a HazMat material
[15:17:19] <[cube]> it's in the shed right now
[15:17:38] <[cube]> funny, it shipped from the UK like in a terrible box all broken
[15:17:46] <[cube]> and the material was exposed
[15:17:48] <Jymmm> lovely
[15:17:57] <[cube]> went through customs without issue
[15:18:06] <[cube]> pretty sure they opened it up
[15:18:25] <tjb1> JT-Shop: you awake
[15:18:28] <Jymmm> I'm just syaing that if it tore/ripped, I woulnd't want the fibers on my clothes/body/ground/carpet/garage/ etc
[15:18:45] <[cube]> yeah
[15:18:48] <[cube]> i'll have to inspect it
[15:19:02] <Jymmm> Thus the disposable tyvek bunny suit
[15:19:21] <zeeshan|2> https://www.dropbox.com/s/abmmue9j5bwostk/Master%20Wiring%20Diagram.pdf?dl=0
[15:19:29] <zeeshan|2> https://www.dropbox.com/s/pz1o87ru9cyhgwm/IO.PDF?dl=0
[15:19:34] <zeeshan|2> can anyone spot any mistakes?
[15:20:14] <Jymmm> [cube]: I'm all about fucking around with things, but asbetose and caustic chemicals are my hard limits.
[15:20:37] <Jymmm> [cube]: I use sulfric acid because I have to, but that' sit.
[15:20:54] <[cube]> yeah, agreed
[15:21:03] <Jymmm> I dont even want to mess with lye. Well, I do, but I won't.
[15:21:42] <[cube]> ah well
[15:21:45] <Jymmm> I have more and more safety gear as I know/understnad more.
[15:21:49] <[cube]> worst case, i wasted $100
[15:22:30] <Jymmm> back belt, ear plugs, ear muffs, full face shield, thermal gloves, P95 respirator,
[15:23:48] <Jymmm> [cube]: You might research what flam proof suits are made out of today and go frm there.
[15:24:36] <[cube]> yeah
[15:25:01] <[cube]> i think more modern suits these days are made from regular fabric with aluminum itegrated into the fibers
[15:26:10] <PetefromTn_> Well folks back from town with some more Vacuum pump oil and some STUFF!
[15:28:42] <PetefromTn_> http://i.imgur.com/PfvoHvw.jpg
[15:35:18] <PetefromTn_> so far I got like $200.00 or so into this vacuum pump setup. Hopefully this will work and I don't need to dig any deeper into the wallet heh
[15:39:43] <_methods> hehe you don't want this thing sucking up all your money?
[15:39:59] <Tom_itx> seems it has
[15:40:19] <PetefromTn_> well I would certainly prefer it didn't
[15:40:37] <PetefromTn_> I am still way ahead if I can get it working and make these parts
[15:40:56] * zeeshan|2 is in contact with amc
[15:41:07] <zeeshan|2> i really hope these guys can figure out why its happening!
[15:41:11] <Tom_itx> american motors corp?
[15:41:17] <Tom_itx> they went out of business...
[15:41:17] <zeeshan|2> advanced motion controls
[15:41:29] <Tom_itx> too many gremlins
[15:41:41] <_methods> well just so you know its always your fault and never theirs
[15:44:07] <mozmck> PCW: I'm not sure I understand the bit files that are in the 7i92 download. I want 3 stepgens and the rest IO right now - what bit file should I use?
[15:44:32] <mozmck> I have my own breakout board....
[15:44:50] <Tom_L> make one?
[15:45:25] <zeeshan|2> _methods: who AMC?
[15:45:36] <zeeshan|2> i dont want to warranty the drives or anything
[15:45:37] <mozmck> I don't know what the difference is? Does the bit file determine which pins the stepgens can be on?
[15:45:38] <zeeshan|2> i just wanna figure out the problem
[15:45:47] <Tom_L> yes
[15:45:58] <Tom_L> but it also depends on your hardware
[15:46:21] <Tom_L> if you're using a daughter card you need to make sure the outs can be outs and the ins can be ins
[15:46:37] <mozmck> so how does that work then if you want 4 stepgens instead of 3 - do you need a different bit file?
[15:46:55] <Tom_L> make one with 4
[15:47:00] <mozmck> I'm not using any daughter cards, just my own breakout board.
[15:47:03] <Tom_L> unless the one you have already has 4
[15:47:24] <Connor> PetefromTn_: I would love a 12x36, but.. no room. this 11 x 26 looks interesting.. it has a separate power feed lever.. it doesn't use the half nuts... But, no power crossfeed.
[15:47:25] <Tom_L> that's the ethernet board right?
[15:47:30] <Tom_L> Connor
[15:47:37] <mozmck> So I can't set the IO directions in the hal file?
[15:47:48] <mozmck> yes, it's the ethernet board.
[15:47:49] <Tom_L> Connor, i'd like to see how you hooked up your spindle board
[15:47:54] <PetefromTn_> I would be surprised if it was all that much smaller..
[15:48:00] <Tom_L> mozmck, you can
[15:48:03] <Tom_L> if it's GPIO
[15:48:45] <Connor> Tom_L I've since removed it because I went with a 7i76.. but.. I used a pport pin for the pwm, and a 2nd pin for fwd/rev relay
[15:48:46] <mozmck> ok, so the GPIO can be set in HAL, but stepgens and other things have to be changed in the bit file?
[15:49:06] <Tom_L> Connor, so it only used one relay for fwd/rev?
[15:49:13] <Connor> Yes.
[15:49:14] <Tom_L> SPDT>
[15:49:16] <Tom_L> ??
[15:49:26] <Connor> Correct. SPDT
[15:49:27] <Tom_L> how did they do that with a SPDT relay?
[15:49:33] <Tom_L> i'd like to see how it was wired
[15:49:45] <Connor> okay.. one sec.. this the C6 or C41 ?
[15:49:56] <Tom_L> c6 but i have all their docs
[15:50:07] <Tom_L> do you wire the motor directly to the relays?
[15:50:12] <Connor> NO
[15:50:16] <Tom_L> then what?
[15:50:37] <Tom_L> i didn't think so but i can't see how to reverse it any other way
[15:50:38] <Connor> It's strictly a switching relay.. My speed controller has a fwd/rev setup with it.
[15:50:44] <Tom_L> mine doesn't
[15:50:56] <Connor> AH. Then, you don't wire it up.
[15:51:03] <Tom_L> but i want reverse
[15:51:05] <PetefromTn_> jeez man I can't seem to get this filter housing unscrewed...
[15:51:05] <Connor> or you have to add some sort of extra stuff.
[15:51:17] <Tom_L> the relays won't take the current?
[15:51:22] <Tom_L> they say 10A
[15:51:44] <Connor> I don't think so.. I think they're switching current only.
[15:51:56] <Connor> and mine on the DC side would pull 16 amps.
[15:52:17] <Tom_L> i'm not sure what this thing draws, i haven't checked it under stall
[15:52:31] <Connor> What sort of motor is it?
[15:52:35] <Tom_L> stock sherline
[15:52:40] <Tom_L> 90v dc
[15:53:36] <Tom_L> what driver did you end up using that has reverse?
[15:53:39] <Connor> http://www.kbelectronics.com/manuals/kbcc_manual.pdf
[15:53:44] <Connor> KBCC-125R
[15:54:04] <Tom_L> along with the C41 board?
[15:54:08] <Connor> Yup.
[15:54:23] <Tom_L> i got pwm working but haven't hooked it to the board yet
[15:54:29] <Tom_L> it looks pretty clean
[15:54:40] <Connor> C6 doesn't work on PWM
[15:54:41] <Tom_L> ~0 - 100% duty
[15:54:56] <Tom_L> it said it needed a 25khz pwm signal
[15:55:04] <Connor> the C6 ?
[15:55:07] <Tom_L> yes
[15:56:43] <Connor> It uses a STEP signal at 25hz
[15:56:46] <Connor> not a PWM signal
[15:56:54] <Tom_L> well i can use a stepgen then
[15:57:00] <Tom_L> i started with a pwmgen
[15:57:09] <Connor> Yea. I never could get it to work right.. I just got the C41
[15:57:13] <Tom_L> This card requires a 25 KHz input signal to deliver 10VDC.
[15:57:27] <Tom_L> i'm gonna try it with the pwmgen first
[15:57:33] <Connor> Yea.. for some reason, I never could get the 25Khz
[15:57:42] <Connor> My voltage ended up being like 7 or 8v max
[15:57:50] <Tom_L> i got it on my Logic Analizer last night
[15:58:02] <Connor> You using pport?
[15:58:04] <Tom_L> scaled from 0-5000 rpm
[15:58:05] <Tom_L> no
[15:58:08] <Tom_L> mesa 7i90
[15:58:10] <Connor> I was.
[15:58:15] <Connor> which was probably my issue.
[15:58:46] <Tom_L> i don't see how to get revese with this without using the relays though
[15:58:55] <Connor> You can't.
[15:59:05] <Connor> You would need a DPDT relay on the DC side.
[15:59:11] <Connor> or contactor.
[15:59:19] <Tom_L> those relays aren't big enough?
[15:59:34] <Connor> I really don't think so.. and they're only SPDT
[15:59:43] <Tom_L> i was gonna use em both
[15:59:47] <Connor> designed to use with a VFD
[15:59:48] <Tom_L> since theyre only SP
[16:00:13] <Tom_L> just hook em both to the same signal and reverse the contacts
[16:01:00] <Connor> Might check to make sure you can do that.. one of them (on the C41) is controlled by the signal too.. not just the input to the relay
[16:01:16] <Tom_L> as they switch, i'll be sending an inhibit signal to the drive to help with inrush and overcurrent
[16:01:36] <Tom_L> i got an xacto knife for that :D
[16:02:06] <Tom_L> controlled by which signal?
[16:02:20] <Connor> the pwm/step signal
[16:02:27] <Tom_L> hmm
[16:02:36] <Tom_L> what for?
[16:02:44] <Connor> let me re-read the docs on the C6
[16:03:27] <Connor> Relays.. : 15A@24VDC; 10A@28VDC
[16:03:29] <Tom_L> i can at least use it for speed control
[16:03:47] <Tom_L> and find a bigger DPDT relay
[16:05:04] <Tom_L> http://tom-itx.no-ip.biz:81/~webpage/cnc/PDF/
[16:05:09] <Tom_L> there's my drive manuals
[16:05:14] <Connor> C6 works a tad different than C41.. so the relays may be independent of control signal.
[16:05:15] <Tom_L> i think i have the KBIC
[16:05:25] <Tom_L> i'll check for sure
[16:05:33] <Tom_L> on the relays...
[16:05:39] <Connor> Yea. That's standard.. you can buy the reversing module for it.
[16:05:49] <Tom_L> for what?
[16:05:55] <Connor> for the KBIC
[16:06:01] <Tom_L> where?
[16:06:14] <Connor> http://www.kbelectronics.com/Variable_Speed_DC_Drives/DC_Drives_Chassis.html
[16:06:19] <Connor> I would check with them.
[16:06:39] <Connor> also.. I have one that I blew up the speed controller side on.. the reverse module might be okay.
[16:06:53] <Connor> but, I'm kinda saving that for the lathe.
[16:10:45] <furrywolf_> yay. the weather forecast for tomorrow is 12" of rain.
[16:10:52] <Connor> PetefromTn_: The G4002 / G4003 are getting a bit more than what I'll be able to afford too.. trying to keep around $1500
[16:12:02] <PetefromTn_> yeah I was talking about buying a used one..
[16:12:10] <Connor> I've not found one.
[16:12:23] <furrywolf_> a foot of rain in a day is GREAT fun to work in.
[16:12:24] <Connor> I've been looking for sub 1.5k lathe..
[16:12:57] <Tom_L> Connor, do you know if those boards have a PN on the bottom side?
[16:13:05] <Tom_L> i don't wanna dig it out if it doesn't ...
[16:13:15] <Tom_L> the KBIC
[16:13:20] <Connor> I don't think so.
[16:13:29] <Tom_L> how can you tell which one it is?
[16:13:34] <Tom_L> just the board layout?
[16:13:41] <Connor> possibly.
[16:14:27] <Connor> Probably a KBIC-120 or KBIC-125
[16:14:38] <Tom_L> that would be my guess as well
[16:14:43] <Tom_L> probably the 120
[16:15:28] <Deejay> gn8
[16:15:35] <Tom_L> what's the difference between the KBIC and the KBCC?
[16:15:54] <zeeshan|2> just run it in forward! :P
[16:16:14] <Tom_L> NO!
[16:16:42] <Connor> I think heat sink and bearer strip.
[16:16:54] <Tom_L> KBCC "R" series has reverse
[16:17:55] <Tom_L> haha they're doing what i was gonna do i bet
[16:18:06] <Tom_L> inhibit, switch the relay and enable
[16:18:32] <Tom_L> The APRM® eliminates contact arcing by allowing armature switching to take place only when voltage levels are near zero.
[16:18:51] <Connor> The R has a breaking resistor too.
[16:18:58] <Tom_L> yeah
[16:19:21] <ve7it> anybody know anything about logan lathes? http://nanaimo.craigslist.ca/tls/4846036006.html
[16:19:52] * furrywolf_ tosses a load of laundry in the washerdryer, then goes to do outside stuff before the foot of rain hits
[16:27:39] <furrywolf_> got my $2 chinese stop switch... I wouldn't use it on anything bigger than my sherline.
[16:34:48] <Tom_L> Connor, is this the one you got: http://www.ebay.com/itm/KB-DC-MOTOR-SPEED-CONTROL-16A-DC-24A-AC-120V-50-60HZ-KBCC-125R-/331045258668?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item4d13d5c5ac
[16:55:36] <PetefromTn_> don't know much about them but that looks like a nice one for a decent price if everything works..
[16:59:04] <Jymmm> Just wind the rubberband less
[16:59:37] <Jymmm> Dont ya wish speed control was as easy as 50¢ dimmer
[17:01:30] <furrywolf_> yay! new backlight inverter fixed laptop. now screen is full brightness, and no whistling noises.
[17:08:59] <zeeshan|2> furrywolf_: im gonna eat your BRains!
[17:12:39] <furrywolf_> ... yes?
[17:14:36] <furrywolf_> meh, the backlight is still a little dim... I suspect the ccfls just have too many hours on them. but they're much brighter than before with the whistling inverter that wouldn't go over half brightness. hopefully the inverter wasn't killed by the ccfls somehow.
[17:16:33] * furrywolf_ wonders when zeeshan became a zombie
[17:17:31] <furrywolf_> also, I'm not too sure about this whole 1920x1200 on a 15" lcd thing... seems way too many programs still use bitmap fonts. lol
[17:17:47] <zeeshan|2> furrywolf_: i did everything you said last night
[17:17:56] <zeeshan|2> all the power side stuff.
[17:17:57] <furrywolf_> and found absolutely nothing, right?
[17:18:00] <zeeshan|2> yep
[17:18:12] <zeeshan|2> control signals all ok
[17:18:17] <zeeshan|2> the only thing i couldnt check was the tachometer.
[17:18:23] <zeeshan|2> because the motor isn't running
[17:18:26] <zeeshan|2> its in locked position
[17:18:29] <zeeshan|2> its giving 0 v.
[17:18:34] <furrywolf_> as long as it wasn't reading power shorted to it from something else, that's fine.
[17:19:42] <furrywolf_> I figured it was most likely you wouldn't find anything, but I couldn't think of anything else to try...
[17:20:04] <furrywolf_> you might have to contact the drive manufacturer and ask them why it's suiciding itself.
[17:20:24] <zeeshan|2> hehe
[17:21:15] <zeeshan|2> i cant find my damn 110v indication light
[17:21:21] <zeeshan|2> i wanna see if it blows up
[17:21:25] <zeeshan|2> when i mimic the situation
[17:21:48] <furrywolf_> how much of their pcb do you want to reverse-engineer, and how many drives do you want to blow up watching various wires on the 'scope? :)
[17:22:49] <zeeshan|2> not anymore
[17:22:49] <zeeshan|2> :(
[17:27:16] <furrywolf_> an oscilloscope is really useful for tracking down weird problems.
[17:31:01] <furrywolf_> your problem is just... weird. if the motor or other signals aren't shorted to power, it means the completely self-contained system of driver and motor is causing the driver to fry. but the motor probably isn't shorted, even intermittantly, as it's unlikely it'd work fine except during power cycling. so that would leave the driver... but you fried two...
[17:31:36] <zeeshan|2> im thinking of taking one of my working drives
[17:31:41] <zeeshan|2> X or Y
[17:31:44] <zeeshan|2> and plugging it in
[17:31:46] <zeeshan|2> and see what happens
[17:31:47] <furrywolf_> there's no main disconnect contactor before the axis contactor, right?
[17:31:51] <zeeshan|2> maybe it was a bunch of cap failures in a row
[17:31:51] <Tom_itx> POOF!
[17:32:08] <zeeshan|2> no furry
[17:32:15] <zeeshan|2> just a disconnect switch for the entire machine
[17:32:46] <furrywolf_> you could have a shorted motor of some form, but only causing problems during power cycling seems unlikely.
[17:33:00] <furrywolf_> there's nothing stupid like a contactor that disconnects the motor when the brake is on, right?
[17:33:17] <zeeshan|2> no , motor is directly wired
[17:33:18] <_methods> http://io9.com/bewildering-star-trek-van-shows-spock-piggy-backing-on-1683842915
[17:33:21] <zeeshan|2> with no swtcihes or breaks in between
[17:35:12] <_methods> mind blown
[17:35:19] <furrywolf_> lol
[17:42:33] <PetefromTn_> http://i.imgur.com/uhfbI9Y.jpg well...it worked!
[17:43:13] <Rab> Nice!
[17:44:05] <PetefromTn_> http://i.imgur.com/l153OAg.jpg pretty nice finish on the edges too..
[17:44:11] <PetefromTn_> Rab Thanks man
[17:44:19] <Tom_itx> that looks like an exhaust manifold plate
[17:44:41] <PetefromTn_> it is actually a cover for the LIM on that Mazda
[17:45:05] <PetefromTn_> I have been thinking about a way to quickly deburr these on both sides..
[17:45:16] <Tom_itx> vibratumbler
[17:45:20] <PetefromTn_> where I have worked locally they all have those nice baldor grinders
[17:45:30] <PetefromTn_> and they usually have those scotch brite wheels
[17:45:41] <PetefromTn_> but those freakin' wheels are stupid expensive
[17:45:49] <Tom_itx> manual labor
[17:45:52] <PetefromTn_> but they work awesome for this kind of thing
[17:45:57] <Tom_itx> hire yourself to work for free
[17:46:21] <PetefromTn_> I was thinking of trying to cut some green pads and gang them on the arbor of my bench grinder
[17:46:40] <PetefromTn_> but I need to be able to cut them nice and clean or dressing it will be a real bitch
[17:46:46] <Tom_itx> you can probably get them at a paint shop
[17:47:13] <PetefromTn_> these plates get brushed finish so I can afford some green pad running around the edge before I apply the brushed finish..
[17:47:32] <PetefromTn_> yeah you can buy them but they are like $100 a wheel!!
[17:47:53] <Tom_itx> we got our 15" buffing wheels out of NY somewhere
[17:47:56] <Tom_itx> i forget the co
[17:48:03] <PetefromTn_> I can just hand deburr them while the machine is running the next batch with my whirlygig
[17:48:05] <Tom_itx> haven't had to buy one in quite a while
[17:48:09] <PetefromTn_> but that is a pain in the ass..
[17:48:40] <Tom_itx> well it's either that or waste your time typing on irc
[17:48:40] <PetefromTn_> I don't like ass pains LOL
[17:50:31] * furrywolf_ doesn't either!
[17:50:36] <furrywolf_> which is why I go slow and use lots of lube.
[17:50:41] <PetefromTn_> yeah these turned out pretty good.
[17:50:44] <_methods> why don't you just cnc chamfer it?
[17:50:48] <PetefromTn_> furrywolf_ you are a sick man LOL
[17:51:04] <PetefromTn_> well I would but that still leaves the bottom edge
[17:51:30] <_methods> well at least you'd only have to do one side
[17:51:33] <PetefromTn_> and there is not enough money in each part to justify too much screwing around really I need to just get em done...
[17:52:21] <_methods> cnc chamfer the good side
[17:52:22] <PetefromTn_> gotta make 50 in this batch which I know is nothing for a commercial shop but I need to get these hopefully all done by tomorrow or the next day.
[17:52:41] <_methods> hand chamfer the other side
[17:53:13] <PetefromTn_> The good news is that my vacuum trap kept the coolant out of the pump pretty awesome. There was like two tablespoons full inside the bottom of it. and I could not see ANY coolant going up the lines at all from the trap
[17:53:53] <PetefromTn_> the other issue is that champfering the 1/8 thick plate if it is not perfectly flat will show any imperfections in Z height pretty good I would imagine
[17:54:10] <PetefromTn_> just really need to deburr them somehow they are fine the way they are..
[17:54:11] <witnit_> if you jig your parts in a suspended fashion, you could maybe use the same program and run the cutter underside, without rechucking
[17:54:54] <PetefromTn_> already made the fixture vacuum hold down
[17:55:03] <PetefromTn_> and the parts suck down flat to the surface.
[17:55:19] <PetefromTn_> fixture is only 1/2 inch thick since the milling is pretty light on it.
[17:59:15] <witnit_> just look at a small 1/8- 3/16 boring bar for lathe and grind a 45 on it
[18:00:19] * JT-Shop debates with himself on building another fire in the heater before going inside
[18:00:57] <furrywolf_> bbl, doing more pre-storm outside projects
[18:03:13] <LeelooMinai> How is the Z position corrected when a tool is changed? I saw a video yesterday and the guy seemed to just change the bits...
[18:03:56] <PetefromTn_> you have to touch off each tool before you run the program as long as you have repeatable tool holders.
[18:04:00] <witnit_> preset your tools in the holders and program the offset of your end distance
[18:05:03] <witnit_> if you tell it what tool you put in it, it knows how long the tool is, since you measured it when you set it in the holder.
[18:05:05] <LeelooMinai> witnit_: And that would be accurate/repeatable enough?
[18:05:21] <PetefromTn_> http://www.ebay.com/itm/3M-SCOTCHBRITE-6X1-2X1-LIGHT-DEBURRING-WHEEL-7S-FINE-01662-NEW-UNUSED-/251783655254?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item3a9f79af56
[18:05:21] <witnit_> granite plate and heighth gauge
[18:05:31] <LeelooMinai> It was the "Tormach guy" doing that
[18:05:35] <JT-Shop> depends on if your tool holders are repeatable
[18:05:39] <witnit_> then transfer the reading to the controller and tweak as needed
[18:06:05] <LeelooMinai> Right, I guess one cannot do it with normal collects, right:)
[18:06:06] <JT-Shop> yea, I think the Tormach has some kind of collar thing to get repeatable
[18:06:18] <JT-Shop> R8 = No
[18:06:29] <PetefromTn_> you can if you setup a tool touch off plate
[18:06:52] <witnit_> you can make bushings for the tools and put the bushing in the collet
[18:07:11] <witnit_> the colar wil stop in the same place each time and get you close
[18:07:25] <witnit_> its not a tapered seat though
[18:07:40] <LeelooMinai> If one has "normal" ER11 spindle, are there any attachments for those, to improve them in some way?
[18:08:04] <JT-Shop> if you have R8 type of collets it makes more sense to just break up the program between tools
[18:09:08] <LeelooMinai> I have ER collets
[18:09:31] <Tom_itx> JT-Shop which reprap are you building?
[18:10:23] <JT-Shop> Tom_itx, a conventional xyz design of which I've not got a firm idea of lol
[18:10:40] <Tom_itx> marlin firmware?
[18:10:53] <JT-Shop> yea and cura
[18:11:20] <Tom_itx> did you find a hot end yet?
[18:11:22] <JT-Shop> LeelooMinai, yea it makes sense to just break your G code up between tools
[18:11:30] <PCW> witnit_: in case you didnt see it
[18:11:32] <PCW> 7i92 ste/dir sample hal/ini file
[18:11:33] <JT-Shop> thinking of the J head Mk8
[18:11:34] <PCW> freeby.mesanet.com:7i92step.zip
[18:11:34] <Tom_itx> there's a nice stainless finned one out that seems real good
[18:11:43] <JT-Shop> got a link
[18:11:48] <witnit_> thanks!
[18:11:49] <Tom_itx> i foget what it's called but i can find out
[18:11:54] <_methods> e3d
[18:11:56] <JT-Shop> I have the Bulldog XL extruder
[18:12:01] <_methods> e3d hotend
[18:12:11] <LeelooMinai> If some bit is in the collet, how does one find the top of the piece to be milled?
[18:12:12] <witnit_> I was having troubles getting it to fire up without the steppers tho
[18:12:31] <JT-Shop> and the Ramps 1.4 Ultimate Power Kit
[18:12:32] <andypugh> The discussion Kirk has been having about centres of rotation just became relevant to me with the Autodesk HSM post-processors
[18:12:44] <LeelooMinai> Or usually it's just done from the bottom or something? Using this touch plate I presume?
[18:12:50] <witnit_> I was trying to free up the first few pins by setting traj 0 but it crashed with default bits
[18:12:57] <JT-Shop> LeelooMinai, I use a dowel to find material top
[18:13:18] <Tom_itx> JT-Shop, i'm told you might wanna swap the drivers for the TI part
[18:13:20] <LeelooMinai> Dowel in the collet?
[18:13:23] <Tom_itx> they're alot better
[18:13:33] <andypugh> It turns out that the default post for EMC2 assumes head rotation and not table rotation, so all my back-side features came out in negative Z.
[18:13:40] <PCW> its unlikely to have crashed you may have a syntax error
[18:13:48] <PetefromTn_> no I think he means a dowl on its side to touchoff the first tool to the workpiece surface
[18:13:57] <witnit_> oh, it was asking for wait on s.axis
[18:14:25] <PetefromTn_> what I am talking about is an automatic tool probing routine you can setup on the machine if you build or buy some sort of tool probe.
[18:14:36] <Tom_itx> JT-Shop, http://shop.arcol.hu/
[18:14:37] <witnit_> I set num_encoders=0 and the default encoder switched back to gpio but stepgen did not work the same as i expected
[18:14:56] <_methods> yeah those arcol's are good if they're ever in stock lol
[18:14:56] <andypugh> I “cleverly” did a search-and-replace for -Z and replaced with +Z. It machined great. But a mirror of what it should have been….
[18:15:07] <JT-Shop> LeelooMinai, I can't find the video
[18:15:18] <witnit_> andypugh too funny
[18:15:23] <LeelooMinai> I saw the Tormach Guy using some Heimer thing - I guess it was just some kind of indicator put into the collet
[18:15:26] <_methods> http://e3d-online.com/E3D-v6
[18:15:52] <PCW> The stepgen should work the same, num_stepgens=0 should disable all stepgens
[18:15:59] <JT-Shop> LeelooMinai, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VmRUJk0ptN4
[18:16:12] <JT-Shop> same thing for a mill
[18:16:26] <witnit_> I will get the hal, ini and output during init
[18:16:41] <LeelooMinai> JT-Shop: Not sure if it would work for vertical X axis though:)
[18:16:46] <LeelooMinai> Z*
[18:16:55] <JT-Shop> yea, same thing on a mill
[18:16:59] <andypugh> Anyway, I managed to sort out the postprocessor, and hopefully it will now run right through and make the part correctly.
[18:17:28] <JT-Shop> except you put the dowel on top of the material then back off until it goes under
[18:17:28] <LeelooMinai> JT-Shop: I would think you would need a lot of force to move spindle higher with a pin like that
[18:17:38] <LeelooMinai> A, ok
[18:18:22] <andypugh> Backing off is the key, you don’t want to trap a hardened dowel under a hardened tool.
[18:18:25] <LeelooMinai> Aren't there some, hmm, nicer way of doing that? Some kind of system where the bit touches a metal piece and it's detected?
[18:18:35] <andypugh> Yeah, they exist.
[18:18:50] <JT-Shop> that's the fastest and most accurate method I know of
[18:18:50] <andypugh> I measure my tools in a fixture on the mill bed.
[18:19:27] <LeelooMinai> I mean both the bits and materials are usually conductive - one could detect them being close.
[18:19:44] <JT-Shop> Tom_itx, your saying I should not use Marlin on the Ramp 1.4?
[18:20:22] <andypugh> I have a tool height gauging and tightening station built into the mill table: https://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo/7v3gpOZHcTunB0JRbsAT3dMTjNZETYmyPJy0liipFm0?feat=directlink
[18:20:35] <Tom_itx> JT-Shop, marlin is the firmware yes use it
[18:20:40] <JT-Shop> LeelooMinai, going toward the material you risk damaging the tool from overtravel
[18:20:49] <andypugh> And then I use a touch-probe to find thr material.
[18:20:51] <Tom_itx> i'm saying the TI driver is better than the allegro parts
[18:21:09] <JT-Shop> Tom_itx, I'm not following you
[18:21:10] <andypugh> But, I have tools that go in to a repeatable depth.
[18:21:24] <Tom_itx> DRV8825
[18:21:32] <Tom_itx> the hardware
[18:21:34] <Tom_itx> not the software
[18:21:44] <Tom_itx> those plug into the ramps board
[18:21:50] <JT-Shop> ah ok
[18:21:50] <LeelooMinai> JT-Shop: I can imagine... Still, doing it by hand kind of bugs me... There must be some niceser way of knowing the distance of the tip of the tip with respect to some object.
[18:22:12] <Tom_itx> JT-Shop, what you're getting on the ramps kit is likely the allegro part
[18:22:13] <LeelooMinai> tip of the bit*
[18:22:16] <JT-Shop> nice as in elegant?
[18:22:19] <Tom_itx> the TI part is more robust
[18:22:26] <LeelooMinai> As automatic and precise.
[18:22:56] <JT-Shop> if your there to put the tool in your the automatic lol
[18:23:14] <LeelooMinai> What? :)
[18:23:41] <Tom_itx> JT-Shop, http://www.ebay.com/itm/like/271299102284?lpid=82&chn=ps
[18:23:54] <LeelooMinai> A, ok, right, well, I would rather have machine to do that.
[18:24:12] <andypugh> LeelooMinai: Cheapest http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Universal-CNC-Router-Engraver-Auto-Check-Setting-Tools-Instrument-CNC-Tools-/231046369992
[18:24:51] <LeelooMinai> Hmm, seems like piece of metal with cable:)
[18:24:58] <andypugh> LeelooMinai: more coolness http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/DT02-CNC-Universal-Wireless-Tool-Setting-Gauge-Presetter-Controller-1-micron-/251740723203
[18:25:03] <JT-Shop> Tom_itx, A4988 is the Alegro?
[18:25:08] <Tom_itx> yes
[18:25:18] <JT-Shop> that's what I have lol
[18:25:20] <Tom_itx> they're ok but that other one is better
[18:25:24] <Tom_itx> it will work
[18:25:34] <Tom_itx> after you blow em get the other ones
[18:25:35] <Tom_itx> :D
[18:25:48] <JT-Shop> sounds like a plan
[18:25:57] <Tom_itx> they should work fine
[18:26:11] <JT-Shop> this is a 24v board
[18:26:17] <andypugh> LeelooMinai: Prettier: http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Edge-Technology-Pro-Touch-Off-Z-Axis-Setting-Gauge-Height-Tool-Next-Generation-/291173424571
[18:26:29] <Tom_itx> the 4988 was actually a replacement for a previous allegro part
[18:26:54] <_methods> but it's not wifi
[18:27:27] <JT-Shop> what about a yellow robot to change your tools?
[18:27:39] <JT-Shop> or the Honda one it is cool
[18:28:01] <LeelooMinai> andypugh: The last one seems like what that guy was doing, but in reverse - he has the Heimer thing in the collet.
[18:28:41] <JT-Shop> oh most modern VMC's do have automagic tool measuring
[18:28:53] <LeelooMinai> Still, if one has, say, carbide mill - wouldn't it damage the top of that tool a bit each time?
[18:29:15] <_methods> still faster to use tool height presetter
[18:29:16] <LeelooMinai> endmill*
[18:29:29] <_methods> not taking time up on the machine that way
[18:29:38] <andypugh> LeelooMinai: I think that the height gauges are both hard and sprung
[18:29:40] <JT-Shop> _methods, for an ER collet?
[18:29:47] <_methods> yeah
[18:30:05] <andypugh> You just need several spindle motors, one for each tool
[18:30:46] <JT-Shop> that makes more sense to have quick change spindles
[18:31:09] <_methods> zoller FTW
[18:31:15] <JT-Shop> _methods, I doubt it is an ER in a tool holder but an ER spindle
[18:31:29] <_methods> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zRfprHCu1RI
[18:32:07] <gene80> In the FWIW category, the RTAI build instruction and patch kit I was directred to earlier today do not ATM agree on kernel versions
[18:32:35] <cradek> gene80: do not build a kernel or rtai
[18:32:54] <cradek> gene80: whoever told you to do that must be on a substance
[18:33:24] <cradek> if you want to run the uspace version of linuxcnc, just use the debian -rt kernel and be happy
[18:34:47] <gene80> So I am in the process of building a 3.14.26 version now. Also they lack the kernels make install step also, and only intimate that you should be running it before building the RTAI version.
[18:34:49] <jack16> what latencies typical for userspace?
[18:35:10] <witnit_user> pcw https://gist.github.com/anonymous/6f89e29c172f53ec64ec
[18:35:30] <cradek> gene80: you shouldn't "make install" a kernel on a modern system, you should build a package. but you should not build a kernel at all because that's already done!
[18:35:41] <gene80> AFAIK, I cannot see an rt kernel in the repo's, so that also is not feasible.
[18:35:49] <witnit_user> if i change num_stepgen to 3 it works just fine
[18:36:01] <witnit_user> but at 0 i get that
[18:36:36] <Tom_itx> if you want 0 remove stepgen from the config line
[18:37:06] <cradek> linux-image-rt-686-pae:
[18:37:08] <cradek> ...
[18:37:11] <cradek> 500 http://http.debian.net/debian/ wheezy/main i386 Packages
[18:37:24] <cradek> well it's in debian main
[18:37:40] <gene80> Ok, what deb path do it need to add to the sources.list to find an rt kernel? The only ones show claim to be the one on the install cd, which claims it s 32 bit pae, but the pae is missing, it only sees 3 of the 8Gb in this box.
[18:38:20] <andypugh> _methods: That seems just a _tad_ over the top for my home workshop.
[18:38:24] <gene80> IOW, I am 50 megs into swap if I load it up with my usual stuffs in about an hours uptime.
[18:38:29] <_methods> andypugh: yeah it is
[18:38:29] <_methods> lol
[18:38:35] <cradek> it's normal and good for a machine to use swap
[18:38:37] <_methods> yours is perfect
[18:39:15] <micges> witnit_user: you have typo in [hostmot2]config
[18:39:19] <cradek> gene80: sudo apt-get install linux-image-rt-686-pae
[18:39:41] <_methods> andypugh: it's perfect but it's not wifi and it's not "beautiful"
[18:39:45] <micges> witnit_user: two closing "
[18:39:54] <Tom_itx> _methods that guy's too clean cut to trust
[18:39:58] <_methods> or automatic lol
[18:40:00] <gene80> image-magic-rt-pae is NOT PAE. even if it claims it is., Chris. BTDT, couple times now.
[18:40:10] <_methods> Tom_itx: hahah
[18:40:21] <andypugh> In fact, if I did have that in the workshop there wouldn’t be room for the mill.
[18:40:22] <_methods> he's kinda serial killer creepy
[18:40:23] <cradek> gene80: you're confusing -rt and -rtai
[18:41:02] <Tom_itx> _methods, he belongs at a state fair in one of those booths with that mic on
[18:41:03] <cradek> gene80: -rt is a debian kernel; -rtai is a linuxcnc kernel
[18:41:35] <_methods> here's their fancy one
[18:41:37] <_methods> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V24SN0iNpuc
[18:41:59] <_methods> automatic measuring weeeeeeee
[18:42:12] <gene80> Chris, I will try it one more time as soon as this build is done. What link is that repo branch?
[18:42:32] <cradek> I don't understand that question
[18:43:25] <andypugh> _methods: Deeding that machine has to be the most boring job in the world
[18:43:30] <_methods> their tool clamp system is nice too
[18:43:33] <witnit_user> ty
[18:43:39] <_methods> yeah we put the tool crib guy on it
[18:43:42] <gene80> in my sources.list
[18:43:47] <_methods> he's not the sharpest tool in the crib
[18:43:52] <_methods> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fQlBfRghl-E
[18:44:07] <cradek> gene80: it's in main. just type the install command.
[18:44:43] <gene80> also, what is the invocation syntax diff between mkinitrd and mkinitramfs? My script just puked
[18:45:08] <witnit_user> micges I will reboot and tell you how right you are when it works
[18:45:24] <witnit_user> you and pcw called it before you even saw it
[18:45:25] <witnit_user> hahaha
[18:46:29] <cradek> gene80: I am too old to help folks build kernels, and I'm probably only half your age.
[18:47:13] <_methods> hahah
[18:47:27] <Tom_itx> ole phart
[18:47:35] <cradek> :-(
[18:47:59] <cradek> I thought he'd find that funny, I didn't mean to be an ass to him.
[18:48:07] <Tom_itx> cradek, i'm a member too :D
[18:48:37] <_methods> he said FU meaney
[18:48:59] <_methods> rage quit
[18:50:12] <witnit_> micges, ohnoes it still does same thing
[18:51:30] <andypugh> is gene78 a previous incarnation of gene80 ?
[18:51:39] <gene78> You must have fixed it, now it is pae, & see's all 8Gb in this machine
[18:52:03] <cradek> gene78: -rt is not a kernel we build; ours is rtai
[18:58:22] <andypugh> So, who knows the spec of the thread on the jets from acetylene headlamps?
[18:59:05] <gene78> At anyrate, it runs trhe sim/axis, and it see's all my memory. Next time I reboot, I'll give the one I just built a pass at the free throw line.
[19:00:30] <gene78> Over here on this sde of the pond I would guess at 1/4-28, but gauge it Andy as I haven't seen one of those critters in 60+ years.
[19:01:07] <andypugh> It’s a steep taper
[19:03:42] <andypugh> http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/BRAYS-ADJUSTABLE-4-BOTTOMS-CARBIDE-GAS-LAMP-BURNER-/250764525306
[19:03:44] <gene78> A pipe thread then. Is a machinists bible handy? Mine would be a 40 foot walk up the hill, in the dark, wearing my tidy whities and its about 34F outside. ;-) But in the dark, my back yard is pretty private.
[19:05:05] <cradek> wow that is steep
[19:05:51] <andypugh> Yeah, luckily LinuxCNC does the thread pitch along the hypotenuse :-)
[19:06:03] <cradek> hahaha
[19:06:05] <andypugh> So i can maeasure it and then program it.
[19:06:45] <andypugh> Though I can do the Steve Blackmore Memorial Rant if you insist?
[19:06:59] <cradek> oh don't start
[19:08:52] <andypugh> But I have my High Horse all saddled and everything :-)
[19:09:52] <andypugh> Inventor HSM makes really nice tool paths. I am very impressed.
[19:10:06] <andypugh> Not sure what you get for free with basic Fusion360 though.
[19:10:40] <_methods> it has some pretty crazy capabilities
[19:10:42] <_methods> for mill
[19:10:44] <_methods> i was impressed
[19:10:48] <_methods> 3d toolpathing
[19:10:51] <_methods> adaptive clearing
[19:11:17] <andypugh> Yeah, the adaptive clearing is good enough all by itself for me.
[19:11:27] <_methods> i'm VERY surprised they are even giving it up free for limited time
[19:11:44] <_methods> the actual cad part is pretty meh
[19:11:55] <_methods> but the tool pathing, oh my
[19:12:15] <andypugh> I have a licence (all legit) for Inventor, so I don’t need the CAD part.
[19:12:55] <_methods> the actual cad part isnt to bad but the assemblies is the bad part
[19:13:02] <_methods> the mating system is just insane
[19:13:08] <andypugh> This was just the adaptive clearing in 3D, no finishing. 3mm step-down then 0.2mm “shallow pocket” https://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo/jRnGlIXp0p78nr_78HcGdtMTjNZETYmyPJy0liipFm0?feat=directlink
[19:13:37] <andypugh> Unfortunately the reverse side came out identical because I am a fool.
[19:13:38] <_methods> with fusion or inventor hsm/
[19:13:58] <andypugh> That’s Inventor HSM.
[19:14:12] <_methods> looks good
[19:14:22] <_methods> everyone is going to integrated cam it seems like
[19:14:26] <andypugh> HSM eXpress is free with Inventor, but I don’t think it does that. I will find out in 25 days :-)
[19:15:13] <_methods> i haven't tried solidworks or inventor hsm
[19:15:13] <andypugh> I like the “rest machining” where is knows what material is already gone. It also means that retracts are only as high as necessary.
[19:15:19] <_methods> yeah
[19:15:29] <_methods> restmilling always seems to not work so well though
[19:15:38] <andypugh> Whereas the CamBam lathe paths occasionally get crazy.
[19:15:39] <_methods> i end up messing with the restmill paths so much
[19:15:53] <_methods> i'm just better off doing individual contours
[19:16:49] <andypugh> CamBam lathe turning a domed end ends up with “retract to full diameter, rapid to touch surface, retract to full diamter, rapid and touch….."
[19:16:58] <_methods> i'll do adaptive clearing then go with organized individual pathing for final work
[19:18:54] <_methods> depending on the part of course
[19:20:28] <PCW> micges: if still up, witnit_'s bug does look like a hm2_eth bug
[19:21:05] <micges> PCW: same as hm2_7i90 you mentioned?
[19:21:29] <PCW> similar (untried corner config cases)
[19:22:38] <PCW> hm2_pci does not have an issue with all modules turned off
[19:25:32] <PCW> the hm2_eh bug seems more likely to be different than what looks like a config parser bug in hm2_7i90
[19:26:43] <micges> PCW: ok I'll check hm2_eth, building sources
[19:26:50] <witnit_> anything you want me to try let me know
[19:27:07] <Tom_L> me as well on the 7i90
[19:27:20] <witnit_> it does work all the way down to 1 stepgen
[19:27:28] <witnit_> but 0 fails at init
[19:28:14] <PCW> Yeah it looks a bit like the hm2_7i90 bug (if you omit the config string it goes crazy)
[19:29:16] <micges> Tom_L: did you saw crazy things when you pass config="" to loadrt hm2_7i90 ?
[19:29:37] <witnit_> I think the bug results the same with ommiting the string vs typing num_stepgens=0
[19:31:33] <PCW> micges what blew up on hm2_7i90 was
[19:31:35] <PCW> loadrt hm2_7i90
[19:32:09] <micges> ah
[19:32:18] <PCW> didn't try
[19:32:20] <PCW> loadrt hm2_7i90 config=""
[19:32:51] <micges> loadrt hm2_7i90 config="" was bug in mk and was fixed I think
[19:33:20] <furrywolf_> somewhat ready for the storm tomorrow. it's supposed to be a fun one. reinforced part of the fence that was getting a little sketchy, cleaned up all leaning things that could be blown over,...
[19:33:32] <_methods> http://linuxgizmos.com/fanless-pico-itx-sbc-rocks-bay-trail-up-to-2-4ghz/
[19:33:57] <witnit_> not specifying stepgens leads to a functional system but defaults to 5 stepgens?
[19:34:22] <PCW> all on is default
[19:34:29] <furrywolf_> got the genny running now to top up the batteries before it's actually needed.
[19:35:24] <andypugh> There are too many SoC boards out there, it is impossible to keep up.
[19:36:01] <_methods> yeah it's kinda nice to have so many choices though
[19:36:38] <PCW> _methods how about the tupperware PC: http://store.hp.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/us/en/pdp/desktops/hp-stream-mini-desktop---200-010
[19:37:07] <_methods> hah
[19:37:10] <_methods> kinda cool
[19:37:27] <_methods> i actually might have a use for that
[19:37:41] <PCW> decent reduced clock dual core Haswell
[19:37:56] <_methods> my buddy is all into xmas lights and he needs a windows pc to run vixen to control his xmas lights
[19:38:05] <_methods> that is exactly what he's looking for i think
[19:38:47] <PCW> I'm going to try one with LinuxCNC
[19:38:55] <_methods> let me know how it goes
[19:38:58] <atom1> loadrt hm2_7i90 config=""
[19:39:00] <atom1> did fine here
[19:39:38] <PCW> what about
[19:39:40] <PCW> loadrt hm2_7i90
[19:40:02] <atom1> errors
[19:40:31] <andypugh> Night all
[19:40:43] <PCW> sensible errors or off the deep end errors?
[19:40:44] <furrywolf_> ... that does look like a tupperware container. lol
[19:41:09] <_methods> yeah i bet that board i linked to will end up costing like $800
[19:41:16] <_methods> vs $180
[19:41:51] <furrywolf_> bbl, work
[19:43:02] <PCW> its an appliance but not bad 2G RAM, 32G SSD, WIFI, Ethernet, 4x USB3.0 or so
[19:43:15] <_methods> yeah exactly
[19:43:37] <atom1> PCW, http://tom-itx.no-ip.biz:81/~webpage/cnc/configs/sherline/Screenshot-LinuxCNC%20Errors.png
[19:45:00] <PCW> 1.4 GHz baby I3
[19:45:40] <_methods> oh score, it comes with mcafee lol
[19:46:01] <_methods> and tripadvisor hehe
[19:46:07] <zeeshan|2> blew up a 3rd servo drive
[19:46:07] <zeeshan|2> !
[19:46:08] <PCW> runs linux without issue
[19:46:11] <zeeshan|2> actually ididnt
[19:46:14] <zeeshan|2> im so nervous to plug it in
[19:46:20] <witnit_> O.o
[19:46:35] <zeeshan|2> i checked all control voltage
[19:46:39] <zeeshan|2> tachometer, motor leads
[19:46:41] <Tom_L> zeeshan|2 grow a set
[19:46:44] <zeeshan|2> they dont have any stray voltages
[19:46:51] <_methods> learning is a painful process heheh
[19:46:51] <witnit_> scope log it all while you test?
[19:46:53] <zeeshan|2> i tried the light bulb test too.
[19:46:54] <_methods> for the wallet
[19:47:04] <zeeshan|2> it didnt blow up the light bulb
[19:47:14] <zeeshan|2> there isn't a voltage spike coming from the ac side.
[19:47:31] <skunksleep> These are AMC drives?
[19:47:36] <zeeshan|2> yes
[19:48:00] * skunksleep hasn't blown one yet...
[19:48:05] <zeeshan|2> ive blown 2
[19:48:06] <zeeshan|2> in 1 day!
[19:48:22] <Tom_L> then find the problem before you blow another one
[19:48:26] <zeeshan|2> im hoping amc can at least tell me what portion of the circuit is blowing
[19:48:27] <skunksleep> I bet something is wrong... ;)
[19:48:30] <zeeshan|2> Tom_L: thats the problem
[19:48:31] <witnit_> something has got to be backfeeding i just dont see how else you could do something like that
[19:48:35] <zeeshan|2> i can't find any problems.
[19:48:40] <Tom_L> find the cause
[19:48:42] <zeeshan|2> well you guys tell me!
[19:48:45] <zeeshan|2> what could be backfeeding?
[19:48:50] <zeeshan|2> it's definitely not the 7i77 backfeeding
[19:48:56] <witnit_> the amps output
[19:49:05] <zeeshan|2> the motor can't be backfeeding because it's stationary
[19:49:08] <witnit_> did it pop while stalled?
[19:49:10] <zeeshan|2> so how can it generate any voltage
[19:49:12] <zeeshan|2> no
[19:49:20] <zeeshan|2> it popped when the drive was in disabled state
[19:49:25] <witnit_> :/
[19:49:31] <zeeshan|2> i shut it off, turned it back on after 20 sec
[19:49:34] <zeeshan|2> and it blew the f up
[19:49:47] <zeeshan|2> it operated fine before that
[19:50:09] <zeeshan|2> how can the amps output backfeed into the drive
[19:50:16] <zeeshan|2> you're saying like..
[19:50:17] <witnit_> they cant if they arent on
[19:50:32] <zeeshan|2> yea they give 0 v out when disabled
[19:50:45] <witnit_> right i was unaware your amp was disable when it popped
[19:50:59] <zeeshan|2> where else can they be back feeding from
[19:51:03] <PCW> bus voltage would be highest when disabled
[19:51:19] <PCW> what is you line voltage?
[19:51:22] <zeeshan|2> 120vac
[19:51:38] <PCW> as measured?
[19:51:41] <zeeshan|2> yes
[19:51:43] <zeeshan|2> 120.7
[19:52:05] <zeeshan|2> input rating is 35 - 125vAC
[19:52:37] <zeeshan|2> could it just be old caps?
[19:52:48] <skunksleep> That is really close to the top end..
[19:53:11] <zeeshan|2> skunksleep: it doesnt blow up the x and y drives
[19:53:17] <zeeshan|2> that are identical in model and revision #
[19:54:18] <PetefromTn_> is the Z motor different somehow?
[19:54:26] <zeeshan|2> yea its larger
[19:54:29] <zeeshan|2> and has a brake
[19:54:34] <witnit_> the brake
[19:54:37] <PCW> I would tend to wire them all to one contactor
[19:54:45] <zeeshan|2> pcw they are all on one contactor
[19:54:46] <zeeshan|2> x y z
[19:54:50] <zeeshan|2> a and c are on different contactor
[19:54:58] <PCW> same contact?
[19:55:01] <PetefromTn_> how much larger is it and is the drive too small to power it?
[19:55:01] <zeeshan|2> no
[19:55:03] <zeeshan|2> different contacts
[19:55:16] <PCW> that may be an issue
[19:55:45] <zeeshan|2> PetefromTn_: it doesnt blow up while operating
[19:55:59] <zeeshan|2> PCW: im just gonna rely on drive disable
[19:56:07] <zeeshan|2> they're naturally disabled
[19:56:18] <zeeshan|2> i dont think i need to be breaking the mains side of them
[19:56:30] <PetefromTn_> the inrush current when you first power the motor is highest isn't it?
[19:56:33] <zeeshan|2> only thing is if comp freezes
[19:56:46] <zeeshan|2> i guess watchdog will fail
[19:56:56] <zeeshan|2> PetefromTn_: yes but they start up in disabled state
[19:56:57] <zeeshan|2> not enabledf
[19:57:22] <PetefromTn_> you are saying the drive blows when they are not even enabled yet
[19:57:26] <zeeshan|2> yes!
[19:57:31] <zeeshan|2> they're in inhibit state
[19:57:32] <PetefromTn_> WOw that is odd
[19:57:32] <zeeshan|2> i power cycle
[19:57:34] <zeeshan|2> and it blows up
[19:59:51] <zeeshan|2> http://imgur.com/a/rIy7k#1
[19:59:54] <zeeshan|2> when i inspected this drive again
[19:59:59] <zeeshan|2> the voltage regulator looks fine
[20:00:08] <zeeshan|2> i think a piece of that cap landed there
[20:00:30] <zeeshan|2> the only risky thing i can try is
[20:00:34] <zeeshan|2> take the Y drive that i know is good
[20:00:38] <zeeshan|2> and plug it into Z
[20:00:39] <zeeshan|2> and see if it blows up
[20:00:40] <witnit_> so how about put your leads back on and try activating the brake sylonoid before connecting amp?
[20:00:44] <zeeshan|2> i really dont know what else to do
[20:00:50] <PetefromTn_> didn't you say you blew 2 drives
[20:00:53] <zeeshan|2> witnit: the brake solenoid is normally engaged
[20:01:04] <witnit_> normaly has electricity on it all the time?
[20:01:06] <zeeshan|2> yes
[20:01:09] <zeeshan|2> 24vdc
[20:01:27] <zeeshan|2> my brake needs 24vdc to engage, but if you remove power from it
[20:01:31] <zeeshan|2> it stays in whatever last state it was
[20:01:39] <zeeshan|2> so if it was engaged, and you remove power, it stays engaged
[20:01:47] <zeeshan|2> if it was disengaged, it stays disengaged
[20:01:49] <zeeshan|2> a bit scary :)
[20:02:03] <zeeshan|2> PetefromTn_: yes i blew 2 drives
[20:02:15] <zeeshan|2> :(
[20:02:37] <PetefromTn_> I feel your pain man.. When I first bought the machine I was trying to use the orignal control
[20:02:49] <PetefromTn_> and I blew a drive, had it repaired for $1100.00
[20:02:49] <zeeshan|2> what drives are you running?
[20:03:03] <PetefromTn_> and then put it back in there and two days later another one blew.
[20:03:07] <zeeshan|2> wow
[20:03:10] <zeeshan|2> what blew in them
[20:03:12] <PetefromTn_> that is when I said screw it and sold it all
[20:03:15] <PetefromTn_> no idea
[20:03:33] <zeeshan|2> these drives have been sitting for a long time
[20:03:34] <PetefromTn_> the drives I am using at the TECO brand with matching motors and cables..
[20:03:38] <zeeshan|2> maybe the capacitors need to be cycled
[20:03:40] <zeeshan|2> gently
[20:04:15] <PetefromTn_> its funny that when my original control's drives blew it was ALSO when I first powered/enabled them...
[20:04:32] <zeeshan|2> before i blow up anotehr drive
[20:04:35] <zeeshan|2> i think im gonna just repair the caps
[20:04:36] <zeeshan|2> and try .
[20:05:07] <PetefromTn_> if it were my machine and ONLY the Z axis blows I would be seriously looking at that drives setup and wiring.
[20:05:32] <zeeshan|2> i did man
[20:05:35] <zeeshan|2> like multiple times
[20:05:39] <zeeshan|2> even got my friend to look at it
[20:05:44] <zeeshan|2> to ensure i was not biased
[20:06:53] <PetefromTn_> you need to ask yourself what is different about the setup of the Z motor and investigate that even IF it looks right to you and your friend. Blowing two drives that are the exact same type on the exact same axis is no coincidence I would think.
[20:07:05] <zeeshan|2> the thing is
[20:07:10] <zeeshan|2> the failure wasn't the exact same internally
[20:07:18] <micges> PCW: hm2_eth doesn't have default board_ip string in driver, so it's NULL pointer problem
[20:07:22] <zeeshan|2> http://imgur.com/a/rIy7k#0
[20:07:26] <zeeshan|2> in one case it was just one capacitor
[20:07:29] <zeeshan|2> in the second case
[20:07:35] <zeeshan|2> http://imgur.com/a/fKIOl#0
[20:07:37] <zeeshan|2> it was multiple caps
[20:07:47] <zeeshan|2> not even the same ones
[20:08:24] <PetefromTn_> was it the same part of the board tho?
[20:08:30] <zeeshan|2> no
[20:08:32] <zeeshan|2> it doesnt look like it
[20:08:37] <zeeshan|2> but im no electronics expert
[20:09:07] <PetefromTn_> if you disable the Z side of things you can currently safely enable and move the X and Y without issue?
[20:09:10] <_methods> you lost more than caps in that first one
[20:09:28] <zeeshan|2> what did i lose
[20:10:08] <_methods> looks like an amplifier and some other stuff
[20:10:15] <_methods> hard to tell from thepics
[20:10:17] <zeeshan|2> i think thats just soot
[20:11:16] <_methods> over by s5 and s6?
[20:11:34] <_methods> http://imgur.com/a/rIy7k#1
[20:14:55] <_methods> hmm do those boards have diff layout?
[20:15:42] <XXCoder> zeeshan|2: did you clean up cap guts?
[20:15:46] <XXCoder> if so, any pics?
[20:15:55] <_methods> smd cap
[20:16:26] <_methods> http://imgur.com/a/fKIOl#1
[20:16:32] <_methods> thats the other board he lost
[20:16:37] <_methods> with cap unexploded
[20:16:47] <_methods> http://imgur.com/a/rIy7k#1
[20:16:52] <_methods> cap exploded on that one
[20:17:03] <_methods> but the board layout looks slightly diff
[20:19:24] <_methods> hehe they blanked out all their chips pretty good
[20:21:15] <XXCoder> indeed
[20:21:33] <_methods> must be a nightmare when you drop a box of chips with all the markings sanded off
[20:23:39] <XXCoder> I bet ya its lot of fun trying tpo figure what chips those are
[20:23:45] <_methods> yeah
[20:24:40] <Tom_L> Connor, the pwmgen works on this board just fine
[20:25:27] <micges> witnit: what loadrt hm2_eth lines works and what don't?
[20:25:59] <PetefromTn_> zeeshan|2 Hey I just wanted to say that I am sorry you are having trouble and my comments were only trying to help you surely know more about electronics and servos and drives than I do that is to be sure.
[20:26:13] <micges> witnit_: ^^
[20:30:43] <Tom_L> well i think it does anyway
[20:32:07] <Tom_L> the signal seems backwards though
[20:33:43] <witnit_> num_stepgens=1 works as expected num_stepgens=0 results in error you saw in my post
[20:34:28] <witnit_> using something like num_stepgens=-1 is the same as running it as ommiting num_stepgens
[20:34:33] <witnit_> just curious what would happen :)
[20:35:12] <Tom_L> if i invert the pin i get no V out on the DAC though
[20:35:31] <Tom_L> even though the wave is good on the LA
[20:37:40] <witnit_> what is component 'inihal'
[20:38:41] <micges> interface to task to change some of configs values on the fly
[20:39:00] <micges> ok I reproduced your problem
[20:40:17] <witnit_> awesome gl!
[20:49:54] <micges> witnit_: I've located num_stepgens problem, will ping you to test fix for it, for now don't set it to 0
[20:50:41] <witnit_> okay sounds good :)
[20:51:05] <Jymmm> [cube]: _methods: Rab roycroft http://www.homedepot.com/p/Weber-Spirit-210-310-Gas-Grills-Igniter-Kit-with-Front-Mounted-Control-Panel-7642/205580067?N=5yc1vZbx9oZ1z0v2z6
[20:51:45] <Jymmm> batter operated
[20:52:10] <witnit_> can you share the change you made, Im curious, its like some issue where it was looking for a varible and instead was dividing by zero hahahaha
[20:52:24] <unfy> mornin! well, evening morning!
[20:52:40] <Jymmm> aftenoon
[20:54:33] <micges> witnit_: seems to latest improvement to stepgen doesn't have disable when num_stepgens=0 condition
[20:55:07] <micges> so it's accessing nonexistent hal variables
[20:55:10] <Connor> Tom_L Good to know. I had issues with mine.. maybe it was bad..
[20:57:58] <Tom_L> well it's not acting right
[20:58:12] <Tom_L> i need the signal inverted but when i do i get no v on the DAC
[20:58:30] <Tom_L> low rpm produces 10v high rpm produces 0v
[20:58:42] <Tom_L> i'm gonna try stepgen next
[21:00:37] <witnit_> thank you! I was sure it was trying still to wait on a device it was not ever going to find
[21:01:56] <zeeshan> http://imgur.com/a/zIvoZ
[21:01:59] <zeeshan> this is what a new board looks like
[21:02:03] <witnit_> for my needs i will have plenty of room on this plug I was just trying to see where i went wrong
[21:03:55] <witnit_> im glad i found something important =D
[21:07:48] <Connor> I see a damaged trace on this one. http://imgur.com/a/rIy7k#0
[21:18:29] <new2cnc_> test
[21:18:52] <Tom_L> fail
[21:20:03] <XXCoder> Error: 404 page not found/
[21:20:20] <furrywolf_> xxcoder: make your signal work yet?
[21:20:29] <XXCoder> nah bit too tired today
[21:20:36] <XXCoder> lot work today lol
[21:20:51] <furrywolf_> same here
[21:21:44] <furrywolf_> coincidentally, while driving for work today, I noticed the city replacing all the pedestrian signals at an intersection, presumably from old non-countdown ones to countdown ones. I was tempted to pick up a couple of the old ones, but decided I had absolutely no use for them whatsoever.
[21:22:47] <XXCoder> heh can always ebay em
[21:23:34] <furrywolf_> I also watched one of the workers drop the new one he was installing... where not only did it fall to the ground, it then rolled down the steep hillside on the edge of the road for ~30ft. he sighed, got off the ladder, and headed after it.
[21:26:01] <XXCoder> heh bet that was fun for worker :P
[21:29:35] <georgenz> Hey guys... im trying to setup my machine center with mesa 5i25 and 7i77, teco servos. Im trying to get my x axis motor running but the enable pin will not drop low. Any ideas?
[21:29:58] <PetefromTn_> 8 sodium atoms walk into a bar followed by Batman....
[21:30:20] <georgenz> Hey pete
[21:30:27] <PetefromTn_> hey]
[21:30:37] <PetefromTn_> ya get it?
[21:30:46] <witnit_> georgenz what amps do you have?
[21:31:25] <georgenz> Teco dmt-100-202
[21:31:33] <PetefromTn_> NA NA NA NA NA NA NA NA BATMAN!!! LOL
[21:32:53] * furrywolf_ didn't know pete was a pothead
[21:34:21] <XXCoder> furrywolf_: it was a dad joke
[21:35:40] <furrywolf_> s/dad/bad
[21:36:58] <XXCoder> http://niceonedad.com/
[21:37:45] <furrywolf_> ... did someone seriously find a way to make a fucking JOKE LIST into bloated slow javascript?
[21:38:00] <furrywolf_> oh, and broken! don't forget broken!
[21:38:15] <XXCoder> works fine here
[21:39:13] <witnit_> georgenz http://www.machmotion.com/manuals/TED/TSTADriver.pdf page four, this is your setup?
[21:39:32] <XXCoder> I don't trust atoms.. they make everything up.
[21:40:30] <XXCoder> furry that site sucks on one thing though, I can't browse jokes
[21:40:39] <furrywolf_> it sucks on many things.
[21:42:25] <georgenz> Yeah... that is pretty much it. Its sitting at 26v but wont drop low when i enable it on the gui
[21:44:37] <georgenz> It appears to enable on the gui, labels turn from grey to black etc
[21:44:57] <PetefromTn_> Apply power to the drive and activate (SON) signal by switching SON terminal to IG24 (input digital Ground).
[21:45:09] <PetefromTn_> do you have the CN1 connector all wired up?
[21:47:48] <PetefromTn_> page 2-19 of the manual shows the setup for the SON signal to enable the drive
[21:47:50] <georgenz> Cn1 connector is wired
[21:48:09] <georgenz> Do u mean to manually link it?
[21:48:56] <georgenz> Or on the computer?
[21:49:31] <PetefromTn_> If you look at the wiring diagram I sent you there is a little green circle off to the right. Blow that up and you can see how I have mine wired...
[21:50:10] <georgenz> Ya i have wired it the same
[21:50:57] <PetefromTn_> pin 1 is the enable and should go to the 7i77 TB5 pin2 for the X axis motor
[21:52:42] <georgenz> Yup... that is all right
[21:52:59] <georgenz> The tb5 pin 2 is not pulling it low
[21:53:05] <PetefromTn_> make sure you understand that the pins on the connector are not linearly arranged
[21:53:38] <PetefromTn_> also make sure you have the Gnd and shield of the cable hooked up
[21:54:08] <georgenz> I'm fairly sure the connector is wired... however i havent grounded the sheild
[21:58:43] <PetefromTn_> look at all of the switches on the 7i77 and list them which way they are located so I can make sure you have them the same as I do.. just wondering not sure it matters really. I am thinking you might need to change the state of the output possibly.
[22:01:13] <georgenz> Switches... u mean jumpers?
[22:01:20] <PetefromTn_> yeah sorry
[22:01:34] <georgenz> Ill take a pic and viber u?
[22:01:35] <PetefromTn_> starting from the left near the big connector
[22:01:41] <PetefromTn_> OK that will work too
[22:04:27] <PetefromTn_> Ok that looks like I have mine but I cannot see the left side
[22:04:31] <PetefromTn_> err right side
[22:04:41] <PetefromTn_> over by the I/O section
[22:05:59] <PetefromTn_> A photon checks into a hotel. The clerk asks him if he'd like help with his bags, "No thanks, I'm traveling light... hehe
[22:06:47] <PetefromTn_> Two Hydrogen atoms are walking down the street, one says, "I think I lost an electron". The other says, "Are you sure?" yeah man........... "I'm positive."
[22:07:33] <XXCoder> nearing zero comic had one like that
[22:08:15] <XXCoder> http://www.lab-initio.com/screen_res/nz220.jpg
[22:08:54] <XXCoder> 10 years in future http://www.lab-initio.com/screen_res/nz319.jpg
[22:09:01] <PetefromTn_> Two men walk into a bar. The first says I'll have some H20... the second one says Oh that sounds good I think I'll have some H20 too.... then he dies. Yuk Yuk Yuk...
[22:13:01] <georgenz> One issue i have is the diagram in the teco manual is very poor for explaining the pinouts of cn1
[22:13:35] <PetefromTn_> yeah man I know it is confusing... especially the layout of the pins on that high density connector
[22:14:04] <PetefromTn_> I am trying to figure out how to determine what the enable output is thru linuxCNC to the 7i77 on my machine
[22:18:30] <georgenz> The layout of the pins in the diagram is opposite from one side of the connector to the other
[22:19:28] <codepython7771> whats the official 3d printing room at freenode?
[22:21:18] <PetefromTn_> http://i.imgur.com/R4e0Iy8.jpg http://i.imgur.com/TasnUga.jpg Here's a shot of the drive and one of the hal showing axis 0 or X and the enable pin
[22:28:26] <georgenz> Not enough detail on yr pic for me to see where in hal u r exactly
[22:29:39] <georgenz> Found it
[22:29:42] <PetefromTn_> I was just trying to see what the settings were for the X axis enable signals. It has been awhile since I did the axes setup and I am trying to remember
[22:29:55] <georgenz> My screen shows exactly same as yrs
[22:30:03] <PetefromTn_> ok
[22:31:19] <georgenz> The detail in the HAL conf isnt changing when I enable the drive
[22:32:28] <PetefromTn_> so you are saying that you have everything hooked up like mine as far as you can tell and the linuxCNC loads and you try to click the enable button and it goes from greyed out to black for a moment and then back to grey immediately or what?
[22:33:03] <PetefromTn_> and you are not getting any errors when it happens right?
[22:33:26] <georgenz> And it goes back to grey the instant u try to move it followed by a following error
[22:33:43] <PetefromTn_> OH you did not say that last night
[22:33:48] <georgenz> However.. no noise frm motor
[22:34:04] <georgenz> Motor doesnt move at all
[22:34:04] <PetefromTn_> you need to change the F error setting to get the tuning started
[22:34:17] <PetefromTn_> does it click when you hit enable like it is getting powered up
[22:34:29] <georgenz> I have changed the following error setting
[22:34:51] <georgenz> It doesnt do shit when i hit enable
[22:35:00] <georgenz> No noise no voltage change on pin... nada
[22:35:50] <georgenz> The only thing it does when i hit enable is the writing on the screen goes from grey to black
[22:35:51] <PetefromTn_> what is it set to?
[22:36:22] <georgenz> Following error is set to 1mm
[22:37:17] <PetefromTn_> make it something bigger and try it again but it doesn't sound like you are even getting power to the motor yet
[22:37:33] <georgenz> When i hit enable... i can manually turn motor as if its not plugged into anything
[22:37:49] <PetefromTn_> there are folks here that are much better at this shit than I am was hoping some would chime in here...
[22:37:59] <PetefromTn_> Ok then it is totally not enabled yet
[22:38:22] <PetefromTn_> you said you are getting 26v on that pin at the 7i77?
[22:38:30] <georgenz> Yup
[22:38:35] <PetefromTn_> enabled or not
[22:38:39] <georgenz> Yup
[22:39:40] <PetefromTn_> can you take another picture of the 7i77 at the TB5 area?
[22:40:02] <georgenz> On its way
[22:43:01] <PetefromTn_> OK standby I might have figured something out.
[22:44:04] <zeeshan> furrywolf_: hi
[22:44:23] <PetefromTn_> http://i.imgur.com/zNrxWF9.jpg OK
[22:44:26] <PetefromTn_> here's mine
[22:44:47] <PetefromTn_> if you notice in the picture I have a jumper in there... on all three axes
[22:44:50] <zeeshan> i like the dots on your green connectors
[22:44:51] <zeeshan> :-)
[22:45:08] <unfy> pete: get your shitty estop switches ? :D
[22:45:19] <zeeshan> http://i.imgur.com/bg6hTiX.jpg
[22:45:20] <PetefromTn_> yeah man they're not that bad
[22:45:24] <zeeshan> i cleaned up the burned up capacitor
[22:45:31] <unfy> not... bad?!
[22:45:38] <georgenz> Ok... wiring that up now
[22:45:44] <PetefromTn_> anyways if you see that little blue wire
[22:45:47] <zeeshan> it honestly looks like
[22:45:54] <zeeshan> that cap launched itself to that area
[22:45:56] <unfy> for $2ea they're not bad, but i wouldn't trust them on anything big.
[22:45:56] <zeeshan> leaving soot
[22:46:25] <zeeshan> http://i.imgur.com/pDy30hV.jpg?1
[22:46:28] <zeeshan> old pic
[22:46:46] <PetefromTn_> it goes from the first pin to the third pin on each axis
[22:47:14] <PetefromTn_> that SHOULD be from enable O- to GND
[22:48:01] <furrywolf_> I got mine today too. I wouldn't use them on anything much larger than my sherline.
[22:48:23] <PetefromTn_> thats up to you but I will be putting them on my 14x40 CNC lathe for sure
[22:48:37] <georgenz> Enable is pin 2 tho??
[22:48:38] <Connor> What do they look like ?
[22:48:59] <PetefromTn_> yeah thats enable +
[22:49:07] <PetefromTn_> look at the 7i77 manual...
[22:49:20] <PetefromTn_> you can get it online if you don't already have it..
[22:49:30] <zeeshan> http://i00.i.aliimg.com/img/pb/521/140/504/504140521_374.jpg
[22:49:32] <zeeshan> sorry for noob q
[22:49:36] <zeeshan> what is a picofarad code?
[22:50:19] <furrywolf_> hrmm, I decided they look a little too breakable for a large machine... you go to thwap it with your remaining hand, and the mushroom breaks or something...
[22:50:45] <zeeshan> furrywolf_: you ignore me now!
[22:50:50] <zeeshan> sOb
[22:51:01] <PetefromTn_> http://i.imgur.com/xPJm85t.jpg
[22:51:10] <zeeshan> lol pete
[22:51:11] <furrywolf_> eh?
[22:51:14] <zeeshan> cnc4pc e-stop!
[22:51:20] <furrywolf_> I'm doing several things at once. did you say something to me?
[22:51:24] <zeeshan> yes
[22:51:29] <PetefromTn_> no not really its from ebay
[22:51:35] <zeeshan> http://i.imgur.com/pDy30hV.jpg?1 ;;;;;;;;;;; ttp://i.imgur.com/bg6hTiX.jpg
[22:51:38] <zeeshan> http://i.imgur.com/pDy30hV.jpg?1 ;;;;;;;;;;; http://i.imgur.com/bg6hTiX.jpg
[22:51:42] <zeeshan> i wanted your expert opinion
[22:51:47] <zeeshan> if you think replacing the cap might make it work again
[22:51:50] <zeeshan> from the looks of it
[22:52:07] <zeeshan> that cap exploded and its soot ended up at that other v-reg or whatever that is side
[22:52:26] <PetefromTn_> expert opinion?
[22:52:34] <zeeshan> furrywolf_ is an expert electronics guru
[22:52:44] <furrywolf_> no I'm not. lol
[22:52:57] <PetefromTn_> what do you do for a living?
[22:53:06] <furrywolf_> drive a delivery van.
[22:53:42] <zeeshan> with dildos
[22:53:49] <furrywolf_> you'll also need to replace whatever the 3-legged to220 device is.
[22:53:54] <PetefromTn_> seriously
[22:53:54] <zeeshan> why
[22:53:57] <zeeshan> it doesnt look burnt
[22:54:07] <furrywolf_> and, if it did fail such that it overvolted the entire rail, everything on it could be fried.
[22:54:10] <PetefromTn_> georgenz Whats happenin?
[22:54:11] <furrywolf_> it had a burnt spot under it, no?
[22:54:16] <zeeshan> yes
[22:54:19] <zeeshan> but i think a piece of the cap landed there
[22:54:21] <furrywolf_> no, I don't deliver dildos. lol. it'd be nice...
[22:54:22] <zeeshan> and thats all it was
[22:54:25] <zeeshan> it cleaned up good
[22:54:44] <PetefromTn_> furrywolf_ are you male or female?
[22:55:05] <zeeshan> what kind of female would have a name
[22:55:07] <zeeshan> "furry"
[22:55:08] <zeeshan> wolf
[22:55:09] <furrywolf_> I don't like that theory. I think some other component there, probably the big one, let smoke out.
[22:55:09] * furrywolf_ is soft and fluffy
[22:55:09] <zeeshan> :)
[22:55:31] <zeeshan> furrywolf: so if i just replace cap
[22:55:32] <zeeshan> and plug it in
[22:55:36] <zeeshan> it'll just explode again yea?
[22:55:37] <PetefromTn_> I honestly cannot imagine a man naming himself furry honestly
[22:55:55] <zeeshan> a gay man would
[22:55:57] * zeeshan hides
[22:56:13] * furrywolf only likes women
[22:56:34] <zeeshan> amc representative got back tome
[22:56:37] <PetefromTn_> so furry is a gay dildo delivery truck driver who happens to be an electronics expert?
[22:56:39] <zeeshan> with some amazing insght
[22:56:41] <zeeshan> are you guys ready for it?
[22:56:42] <furrywolf> something made that cap explode. if it happened once, random defect, sure... but if your second drive did the exact same thing...
[22:57:00] * furrywolf doesn't deliver dildos, and isn't an electronics expert
[22:57:05] <zeeshan> furrywolf: well it looks like its just a 24v cap
[22:57:08] <zeeshan> 25v cap
[22:57:15] <georgenz> Ok... progress
[22:57:21] <furrywolf> right. and it exploded because it got >>25V on it.
[22:57:22] <zeeshan> maybe some how the 60v tach signalk
[22:57:22] <PetefromTn_> AWESOME!
[22:57:24] <georgenz> Now it clicks and goes low
[22:57:25] <zeeshan> is making it to it
[22:57:33] <PetefromTn_> does the motor lock down?
[22:57:42] <georgenz> Motor locks and u can hear it hissing faintly
[22:57:50] <PetefromTn_> excellent...
[22:57:55] <PetefromTn_> can you move the axis?
[22:58:01] <zeeshan> It looks like something shorted. Do you have a wiring diagram? I can't really tell from the description of the failure what happened. Do you have a red LED or no LED?
[22:58:08] <zeeshan> thank you for your amazing insight amc.
[22:58:12] <georgenz> However there is no movement when I tell it to on the software
[22:58:13] <furrywolf> right, the 60V tach signal that is 0V during e-stop?
[22:58:24] <zeeshan> furrywolf: yea its 0v when motors arent moving
[22:58:31] <zeeshan> otherwise id have a run away condition
[22:58:31] <PetefromTn_> you hit the left or right arrow?
[22:58:32] <zeeshan> :P
[22:59:06] <georgenz> U mean + or -?
[22:59:08] <furrywolf> I suspect the big to220 part, the inductor, the diode next to the inductor, and those caps, form a switching power supply.
[22:59:21] <PetefromTn_> no on my machine it is left arrow right arrow for X axis
[22:59:32] <PetefromTn_> keyboard rather
[22:59:34] <zeeshan> furrywolf: you dont have to guess
[22:59:35] <zeeshan> http://www.a-m-c.com/download/datasheet/be25a20ac.pdf
[22:59:36] <zeeshan> page 2
[22:59:40] <zeeshan> maybe this helps.
[23:00:35] <zeeshan> the only switching power supply
[23:00:41] <zeeshan> canm be that "internal dc-to-dc converter"
[23:00:43] <furrywolf> that is a block diagram, not a schematic. heh.
[23:00:50] <zeeshan> yes
[23:00:52] <georgenz> No... nothing when i try that
[23:00:55] <zeeshan> but it should should a switching supply on there
[23:02:01] <PetefromTn_> does the axis DRO's move when you press those buttons?
[23:02:16] <georgenz> Nope
[23:02:20] <furrywolf> "interal power supply for hall sensors" could include it. and that diagram doesn't show where the logic supplies are.
[23:02:33] <PetefromTn_> ok then it is not getting the commmand then for some reason.
[23:03:23] <PetefromTn_> goto MDI and try to do like G0 X something close to where you are now and hit ok
[23:04:15] <furrywolf> measure the voltage on that capacitor on one of your working drives
[23:04:30] <zeeshan> and
[23:04:34] <furrywolf> be careful not to slip with the probes and make it a not-working supply
[23:04:47] <georgenz> I was wonderin if my CN1 plug is incorrectly wiree
[23:04:55] <georgenz> Wired
[23:05:17] <georgenz> Because the diagram for it in the manual is tge worst diagram i have ever seen
[23:05:21] <PetefromTn_> you could check for the encoder input to the 7i77 in hal maybe
[23:05:42] <PetefromTn_> yeah I know right. I had trouble with it as well...
[23:05:50] <furrywolf> that internal dc-dc shown on the block diagram is a low-current double-ended supply, while the big parts in the area of the damage are a single-ended high-current supply.
[23:06:41] <PetefromTn_> another thing to consider is to ensure your drives CN1 connections are the same as mine.... there are no guarantees that yours are the same despite being the same model as yours is a year or two newer now.
[23:06:45] <zeeshan> well
[23:06:53] <zeeshan> all the HV stuff should be near the motor leads.
[23:07:00] <zeeshan> where those 3 black boxes are with the blue caps
[23:07:10] <zeeshan> on the other side of the baord there is a shit load of big ass resistors
[23:07:15] <zeeshan> mounted right to the heat sink
[23:07:29] <zeeshan> you can actually see the philips screws for em.
[23:08:02] <PetefromTn_> refer to page 2.9 for the pinout and you can see they are NOT in order
[23:08:43] <furrywolf> so what's the voltage on that cap on a working unit?
[23:08:54] <zeeshan> do you rreally want to know? :)
[23:08:58] <zeeshan> is it a valuable piece of info
[23:09:03] <PetefromTn_> you can see from that diagram that the pins actually alternate from one row to the next counting up from one side to the other.
[23:09:19] <furrywolf> yes
[23:09:43] <furrywolf> because it tells you what that capacitor is doing and powering, or at least greatly narrows it down.
[23:09:51] <zeeshan> okay give me a few min
[23:09:53] <zeeshan> ill check it out
[23:09:59] <zeeshan> i need my special probes for this cause im butter fingers
[23:10:08] <PetefromTn_> migth be worth printing page 2.9 and 2.10 so you can look at them without having to flip back and forth all the time...
[23:10:58] <PetefromTn_> AND the as I recall the orientation of the connector to the drive is kind of funky somehow.
[23:11:12] <PetefromTn_> trying to remember everything and my memory for this stuff sux balls...
[23:11:53] <PetefromTn_> are you getting the encoder reading on the drive while the motor is enabled?
[23:17:32] <georgenz> The reading when enabled is jst 0.000
[23:17:55] <georgenz> I am jst going over the cn1 connector now
[23:22:44] <PetefromTn_> also check over the settings on the drive itself..
[23:24:51] <georgenz> Cn1 looks correct
[23:26:26] <zeeshan> furrywolf: 14.6V
[23:27:40] <furrywolf> so it's probably a 12V or 15V supply. what parts run off 12v or 15v?
[23:28:11] <zeeshan> nothing that i know of
[23:28:26] <zeeshan> theres supposed to be +/-10v 3mA
[23:28:34] <zeeshan> and 5v fault signal
[23:28:50] <codepython7771> whats a good place to discuss 3d printers?
[23:28:51] <zeeshan> htheres a 6v supply for the hall sesnsors
[23:28:54] <furrywolf> so it's something internal, then.
[23:28:56] <zeeshan> codepython7771: #rerap
[23:29:03] <zeeshan> #reprap
[23:29:04] <zeeshan> sorry
[23:29:11] <furrywolf> how much poking do you want to do?
[23:29:18] <zeeshan> furrywolf: i dont mind pokin
[23:29:21] <zeeshan> i just dont want it to blow up again
[23:29:31] <zeeshan> well i want to find the reason it blew up
[23:29:33] <zeeshan> so i can correct it
[23:29:36] <codepython7771> zeeshan: thanks
[23:29:40] <furrywolf> can you measure the HV voltage? and can you measure that cap to the HV voltage?
[23:29:41] <zeeshan> if ends up being a shitty amc drive
[23:29:43] <zeeshan> ill buy better drives
[23:29:48] <zeeshan> i measured it already
[23:29:52] <zeeshan> @ the blue caps
[23:29:55] <zeeshan> its 170V
[23:30:08] <furrywolf> does the positive of the cap to the positive of the HV read 185V by any chance?
[23:30:28] <zeeshan> HV being
[23:30:42] <zeeshan> the thing that powers this entire board?
[23:30:59] <furrywolf> the big caps with 170V on them
[23:31:05] <georgenz> I think my issue is setting in the drives
[23:31:06] <zeeshan> okay
[23:31:08] <zeeshan> brb
[23:31:34] <PetefromTn_> my drives are setup for speed or velocity analog control
[23:31:36] <georgenz> I dont think it has come factory default to analog
[23:32:45] <zeeshan> 156 V
[23:33:11] <zeeshan> sounds like its just
[23:33:14] <zeeshan> 170V - 14.6
[23:33:26] <furrywolf> ok, so it is 15V, and not 170+15V for high-side gate drivers.
[23:33:55] <georgenz> Do u know how to setup the drives??
[23:34:06] <furrywolf> but it IS on a common ground with them, so it's an internal voltage probably relating to the output section, and nothing to do with your inputs.
[23:34:16] <PetefromTn_> I am trying to remember man heh
[23:34:20] <zeeshan> nice!
[23:34:28] <PetefromTn_> looking thru the manual now
[23:34:31] <zeeshan> like furrywolf
[23:34:36] <zeeshan> should i measure between control ground
[23:34:41] <zeeshan> and the + of the yellow cap?
[23:34:52] <zeeshan> and if it says 0V i can be confident it's nothing to do with my input side?
[23:35:32] <furrywolf> well, re-reading the diagram, it could be control ground and power ground aren't isolated, so never mind.
[23:35:59] <zeeshan> well isn't a floating ground
[23:36:02] <zeeshan> supposed to be isolated?
[23:36:09] <zeeshan> so for example p1-2 inthat block diagram
[23:36:13] <furrywolf> the diagram says isolation is an option
[23:36:21] <zeeshan> mine has isolation..
[23:37:07] <furrywolf> they could well be joined in external circuitry, too. you'd need to pull your control plugs.
[23:37:21] <zeeshan> im gonna check p1-2 to that cap
[23:37:37] <zeeshan> i should just bring this thing upstairs
[23:37:42] <zeeshan> so i dont have to keep going up and down lol
[23:41:15] <zeeshan> p1-2 to +side of cap
[23:41:16] <zeeshan> reads 0v
[23:41:39] <zeeshan> i have nothing connected to the drive
[23:41:44] <zeeshan> no motor leads, no control plugs. only ac power
[23:42:13] <furrywolf> so it's definitely not part of the input logic, then.
[23:42:41] <zeeshan> i measured one leg of that black thing
[23:42:49] <zeeshan> that looked charred before, i think you called it a to something.
[23:42:54] <zeeshan> it measures 64V
[23:43:04] <zeeshan> the other leg measures 51V
[23:43:15] <zeeshan> no idea what that thing is.
[23:43:40] <furrywolf> it's something you probably need a 'scope to usefully diagnose...
[23:43:59] <furrywolf> if, and that's a big if, it is a smps.
[23:44:10] <zeeshan> okay
[23:44:14] <zeeshan> im gonna check one of those small caps
[23:44:20] <zeeshan> that blew up on the second failure
[23:44:24] <zeeshan> and probe it to p1-2
[23:44:26] <furrywolf> what's the voltage on the big inductor on the end not connected to that capacitor?
[23:44:37] <zeeshan> the red thing?
[23:44:40] <zeeshan> the choke?
[23:44:41] <furrywolf> yes
[23:44:48] <zeeshan> will need to check
[23:44:48] <furrywolf> measured to the negative of the capacitor
[23:44:57] <zeeshan> which leg of the inductor
[23:45:10] <zeeshan> http://i.imgur.com/jkoYNjd.jpg?1
[23:45:15] <zeeshan> right or left
[23:45:34] <furrywolf> the end away from the capacitor
[23:45:39] <zeeshan> okay
[23:46:24] <furrywolf> the end nearest the capacitor should read 15V just like the capacitor, unless I'm mis-following traces.
[23:48:53] <bobo_> zeeshun does your meter read frequency ?
[23:49:15] <zeeshan> 27V from far away leg of inductor to - side of cap
[23:49:19] <zeeshan> 21V across inductor
[23:49:29] <zeeshan> 0V between P1-2 and the smaller cap that blew up last time
[23:49:50] <zeeshan> approx 12.5 v across the small cap
[23:50:25] <furrywolf> ok, since the inductor has voltage across it, it's definitely part of a switch-mode power supply. if it were just functioning as a choke, you'd only get a tiny voltage from its dc resistance.
[23:50:37] <zeeshan> bobo_: yes it has frequency measurement
[23:50:41] <zeeshan> 9.999 hz to 999.99 khz
[23:50:58] <furrywolf> and the cap positive connects directly to the leg of the inductor that's right near it, right?
[23:51:53] <furrywolf> I'm still going to go with my original theory... the regulator is shorting, and dumping high voltage onto the 15v bus, causing caps to explode.
[23:52:07] <zeeshan> http://i.imgur.com/bg6hTiX.jpg
[23:52:14] <zeeshan> the leg closest to the cap
[23:52:22] <zeeshan> connects to the + side of the cap
[23:52:31] <zeeshan> (cap is missing there)
[23:52:36] <renesis> buck reg
[23:53:03] <furrywolf> you've now shown that capacitor is the filter for a switchmode power supply, with that inductor... the most likely problem is the switchmode supply stopped switching, either due to logic failure or pass transistor failure, and dumped its input directly into the output.
[23:53:27] <zeeshan> what kind of dumb shit is that?
[23:53:29] <zeeshan> that on failure
[23:53:35] <zeeshan> it dumps high voltage
[23:53:43] <renesis> its called basic electronics
[23:53:49] <furrywolf> normal for buck topology. that's pretty much always how they fail.
[23:53:53] <zeeshan> you cant design around that?
[23:53:57] <furrywolf> you can, yes.
[23:53:59] <furrywolf> they didn't. :P
[23:53:59] <renesis> SMPS are all basically on the edge of catastrophic failure during normal operation
[23:54:07] <zeeshan> gay
[23:54:11] <renesis> if its stops switching in a closed state, shit dies
[23:54:14] <zeeshan> you know whats fucked?
[23:54:21] <zeeshan> in the mode im operating the servo
[23:54:21] <renesis> its not gay it is what it is
[23:54:23] <zeeshan> i dont even using that
[23:54:27] <zeeshan> buck converter supply.
[23:54:28] <renesis> you want efficiency, its higher risk
[23:54:33] <zeeshan> fuck efficiency
[23:54:35] <zeeshan> its a cnc machine
[23:54:42] <zeeshan> reliability is more important
[23:54:46] <furrywolf> how do you know you're not using it? I suspect it's powering a fair portion of the internal workings.
[23:54:51] <bobo_> furrywolf what if switcher is locking up due to AC input power cycling ?
[23:55:04] <renesis> i think thats the case
[23:55:23] <zeeshan> furrywolf: well im looking at the block diagram
[23:55:24] <furrywolf> bobo: then it's a piss-poor design and some engineer needs a new job flipping burgers
[23:55:31] <renesis> it looks like an old pwm chip supply, so a lot of the startup and protection stuff is sensitive discrete analog stuff
[23:55:34] <zeeshan> the only thing the dc-dc converter is used for
[23:55:34] <furrywolf> the block diagram doesn't show this power supply.
[23:55:38] <renesis> theyre known for fucking up, heh
[23:55:42] <zeeshan> is the dinky little +10v and -10v signal
[23:55:49] <furrywolf> the dc-dc converter shown on the diagram is somewhere else on the board.
[23:55:52] <zeeshan> oh
[23:56:22] <zeeshan> okay now that you know this information
[23:56:26] <renesis> thats just looks like a logic rail, not bipolar, lots of current
[23:56:28] <zeeshan> can we extend it to my second failure?
[23:56:32] <renesis> thats a big inductor
[23:56:35] <zeeshan> where that cap never failed.
[23:56:50] <renesis> did the transistor fail?
[23:57:08] <zeeshan> renesis: doesnt look like it.
[23:57:10] <zeeshan> http://imgur.com/a/fKIOl#0
[23:57:17] <renesis> what failed then
[23:57:17] <zeeshan> just a heads up
[23:57:23] <zeeshan> you can click on the top right and you'll see a gear
[23:57:27] <zeeshan> and you can make the image much larger
[23:57:36] <renesis> its img
[23:57:37] <furrywolf> can you follow the traces to see what connects to the other end of the inductor?
[23:57:39] <renesis> i can just load the img
[23:57:41] <zeeshan> in the second failure, the only things i see that failed
[23:57:48] <zeeshan> are 3 capacitors.
[23:58:01] <bobo_> zeeshan can you check the time/voltage discharge of the 15 VDC when AC input is turned from on to off ?
[23:58:10] <furrywolf> the only things you SEE are just what popped before the fuse blew. chances are every part in that area of the board is suspect.
[23:58:13] <zeeshan> bobo_: about 12 seconds
[23:58:27] <renesis> that transistor looks fucked zee
[23:58:34] <zeeshan> renesis: updated pic:
[23:58:38] <renesis> it reflows the solder explosively, heh
[23:58:53] <renesis> *reflowed
[23:58:53] <zeeshan> http://i.imgur.com/bg6hTiX.jpg
[23:59:18] <furrywolf> can you see at all what the other end of the inductor runs to?
[23:59:23] <zeeshan> furrywolf: which side
[23:59:25] <zeeshan> right or left
[23:59:53] <renesis> http://i.imgur.com/DHNQJCv.jpg
[23:59:56] <furrywolf> other. the end away from the cap, not connected to the cap.