#linuxcnc | Logs for 2015-02-03

[02:23:14] <Deejay> moin
[02:31:51] <anarchos2> hi
[02:50:12] <RyanS> a bf30 mill only needs 100oz torque steppers? seriously?
[03:25:52] <witnit> for the hm2_eth cards 7i92 specifically is there an i/o only bitfile I can use for both connectors?
[03:37:37] <Tom_itx> you can make one
[03:39:42] <witnit> yes, i was just thinking, does this mean must learn 1's and 0's?
[03:41:17] <Tom_itx> http://tom-itx.no-ip.biz:81/~webpage/emc/xilinx/xilinx14_install_index.php
[03:42:10] <Tom_itx> generally i think if you're not using the alternate funciton they can be used for GPIO anyway
[03:42:37] <RyanS> I was under the impression ACME/trapezoid lead screws have too much backlash for cnc but some people have apparently used them successfully
[03:44:34] <witnit> yeah I was thinking i did something like that last time, however, this does not seem hard by looks anyhow, I could really get right down to the guts of things with that
[03:45:23] <witnit> it seems like on the right card with a big mix of hardware writing your own bitfiles is necessary
[03:46:29] <witnit> RyanS depends on what kind of machining you are doing mostly
[03:48:01] <witnit> if you are just making forward cuts, positioning, some antibacklash techniques and have good slides you can do alot of good work
[03:49:06] <witnit> like drilling pcb boards or positioning table under weight. sometime you can okay
[03:50:57] <witnit> but to arc from a positive move back to a negative move or cut hard materials would cause backlash and vibration in places after they worn
[03:52:36] <witnit> thats a great tutorial tom, someday soon i may have to write my own
[03:59:19] <RyanS> ok so if you want to thread milling, circular shapes and so forth, ball screws are required?
[03:59:33] <Tom_itx> there may likely already be a bitfile for GPIO only
[04:03:07] <witnit> I looked for one tom, but it was not in the zipfile, i thought maybe i should see what else i could git out there
[04:03:36] <witnit> ryan, i would say so. what kind of machine is this, what materials?
[04:07:29] <RyanS> I put a deposit down for optimum bf30v. aluminium and steel. It will be manual until I have a compelling reason to convert
[04:07:53] <witnit> if you have a big enough screw and a small enough travel area and you arent hogging alot off its not impossible, but there a ton more resistance per motor
[04:09:01] <RyanS> Although I ordered x power feed and dro, so I'm not sure if I need cnc
[04:09:16] <anarchos2> hmm, trying to setup backlash compensation, i have about 5 thou in my z axis
[04:12:04] <anarchos2> works wonders when moving 100 thou at a time, goes all wonky when moving 1 thou at a time
[04:19:02] <anarchos2> RyanS, i use my cnc'd mini mill a lot for doing dro and power feed :P
[04:20:10] <witnit> I run thousands of turned parts, I dont have a cnc mill at all
[04:20:40] <witnit> manual has always done me fine, though many times i could have definately used a couple vmc's
[04:22:01] <RyanS> i know but i may never need cnc.... dro+ power feed only cost $800
[04:24:39] <witnit> well, if you go cnc, you get a dro and power feed anyhow.....
[04:24:54] <witnit> and if you do it yourself... its cheap
[04:26:17] <RyanS> eh i can sell the dro if I need cnc
[04:32:59] <witnit> I dont get backlash and I dont use a ballscrew :)
[04:33:26] <RyanS> yeah
[04:33:56] <witnit> I have a servo attached to a constant rise cam and heavy duty set of springs on a slide, so it can't backlash, no screws
[04:34:46] <RyanS> servos more $$$
[04:47:10] <anarchos2> well, bed time. g'night
[05:13:29] <RyanS> the lucky bastard http://btilden.com/photo_album9.html
[05:24:12] <Bushman> ave
[05:26:27] <Bushman> Hey guys, how do you like my new "Celtic knot owl" ;] http://i.imgur.com/oNnv15vl.jpg
[05:27:07] <Bushman> machined with LinuxCNC ;>
[05:55:42] <jthornton> neat
[06:05:46] <GMendez> hi there
[06:07:59] <witnit> bushman thats good =D are you going to make some custom enclosures for mesa cards next!?! =D
[06:08:10] <witnit> hey GMendez morning!
[06:19:13] <Bushman> witnit: do i need one?
[06:19:37] <witnit> i do :)
[07:07:20] <malcom2073_> c'mon, if you're using a mesa card you probably have the capability to make one yourself :P
[07:13:39] <witnit> turning machines 6 axis robotic arm and second operation automatic drilling machines :/ no mill
[07:17:49] <malcom2073_> Doh
[07:19:52] <witnit> I think my next project is just going to have to be standalone servo tapping heads, small enough to fit in a davenport, but big enough to roll tap quickly.
[07:23:09] <witnit> I have this idea for using a combination tap-drill with chamfer on the shank so I can drill the part, tap the part, and chamfer the top of the hole in a single pass.
[07:24:50] <witnit> should also be an interesting use for the attachement
[07:28:36] <Tom_itx> expensive cutter to replace when it breaks
[07:33:58] <Tom_itx> http://www.amazon.com/Dormer-High-Speed-Combined-Modified-Bottoming/dp/B004J4VU2U
[07:34:04] <Tom_itx> no chamfer on that one
[07:45:51] <_methods> http://www.komet.com/tools-navigation/tools/threading/drill-thread-mill.html
[07:49:11] <_methods> i know you can get custom made ones though
[07:49:16] <_methods> they get expensive
[07:49:23] <_methods> http://www.secotools.com/Global/Products/Roscado/Thread-milling/Drilling-Threadmaster/
[07:49:51] <_methods> custom inserted ones
[07:50:06] <_methods> have a drill point, thread mill, and chamfer insert on top
[07:52:38] <Tom_itx> yeah, threadmill not tap
[07:52:53] <Tom_itx> what if it's not a thru hole?
[07:52:58] <_methods> yeah the seco one
[07:53:09] <_methods> oh is the komet thread mill too
[07:53:34] <Tom_itx> that's what it says
[07:53:39] <_methods> yeah it is
[07:53:50] <Tom_itx> no matter, they're gonna cost quite a bit
[07:53:57] <_methods> yeah not cheap at all
[07:54:12] <_methods> but if it saves you tool changes it's worth it for high production
[07:54:36] <Bushman> witnit: do you have a project for the enclosure?
[07:56:00] <witnit> not an ongoing one, but i will need one for a couple 7i92 at most. oil proof, i always thought someone in here would be making them for
[07:56:03] <witnit> each card
[07:56:48] <Tom_itx> now you got yourself another project :)
[07:57:10] <witnit> yeah guys its not about the cost tho, the orders are 100,000 month and its one of those machines that if you can run the job complete you got it mader
[07:57:14] <witnit> made*
[07:57:40] <malcom2073_> I have an old generator that I'm fiddling with to turn into a whole house (one of the first things my mill will do once retrofitted, make adapter plates for that) and it occured to me... why do all the DIY generator people on youtube use car alternators? Why not use *real* AC motors?
[07:58:00] <Tom_itx> because they're cheap
[07:58:04] <malcom2073_> Like if you have a 5hp push mower engine, why not grab a 5hp AC motor?
[07:58:24] <malcom2073_> You can get 5hp motors for fairly cheap used
[07:58:33] <malcom2073_> Iguess it's a different level of cheap heh
[07:58:38] <Bushman> witnit: i mean do you have design plans for the enclosures :D
[07:58:53] <Bushman> cause i don't have such cards so i don't know who it should look like
[07:58:54] <Bushman> :P
[07:59:08] <malcom2073_> This guy bought anew lawnmower engine, bought a plasma cut plate for it to mount to, and a new (tiny) car alternator. Just seems silly
[07:59:45] <witnit> no, just a basic enclosure that matches the cards geometry according to documentation at mesa website
[07:59:47] <Bushman> i'd just bought a power generator lol
[08:00:06] <Bushman> witnit: and what would be the material?
[08:00:07] <malcom2073_> Bushman: It'd be cheaper than what some of these guys do :P
[08:00:18] <witnit> aluminum :)
[08:00:21] <Bushman> malcom2073_: hobbyst lol
[08:00:50] <malcom2073_> witnit: Can you get extruded aluminum enclosures with slots that fit the mesa boards? I know you can get them in tons of sizes
[08:01:13] <witnit> that would be a very affordable idea, 80/20 is about 20 mins from my house
[08:01:16] <malcom2073_> I use the extruded aluminum stuff for a lot of electronics enclosures
[08:01:38] <malcom2073_> Which daughterboard?
[08:01:38] <witnit> the db25 and power connectors with rj45 is very important tho
[08:02:17] <witnit> none for these machines
[08:02:29] <witnit> but open for both ports later down the road
[08:02:39] <witnit> right now im replacing some plc boxxes
[08:02:46] <malcom2073_> Hmm, the 7i77 is 4 inches wide, fairly certain that's the same size as another board I use...
[08:03:00] <malcom2073_> That's actually a good idea, I'ma do that haha
[08:03:20] <Bushman> i think i saw some hermetic DB9 and 8P8C sockets that could work
[08:04:08] <witnit> how nice would it be if you guys just made standoffs to handle every board within 00X00 dimensions and allow for more than one card for me with varying faceplateS?
[08:04:11] <witnit> =D
[08:04:14] <Bushman> i would go with extruded enclosure and CNC cut the front panels for the sockets
[08:05:20] <witnit> im sure pcw wouldnt mind pointing people toward some professional enclosures made by good people :)
[08:05:28] <witnit> =D
[08:05:51] <witnit> just make sure you leave some great artistic touches to them
[08:06:03] <witnit> penguins and such
[08:14:48] <JT-Shop> arg trying to set up printing on Wheezy and I get to the end and get CUPS server error There was an error during the CUPS operation: 'cups-authorization-canceled'
[08:17:21] <JT-Shop> oh finally it worked... I think
[08:22:49] <jthornton> oh I hate when I get something to work and don't know exactly how I fixed whatever the problem was
[08:23:23] <malcom2073_> My life coding.
[08:35:30] <witnit> JT-Shop need something like this? sudo usermod -a -G lpadmin `id -un`
[08:36:06] <witnit> https://jz.bz/tar.jz/fix-debian-printing-error/
[08:36:13] <JT-Shop> witnit, what does that do?
[08:36:41] <witnit> add user to lpadmin group and allow right i assume, check out what others have done concerning lpadmin
[08:38:10] <JT-Shop> ah, but I got it to work using the System > Administration > Printers after I guessed the right things to do
[08:38:33] <JT-Shop> now to see if I can do it again down in the Beer Cave
[09:54:10] <pcw_home> "for the hm2_eth cards 7i92 specifically is there an i/o only bitfile I can use for both connectors?"
[09:54:12] <pcw_home> _any_ bitfile can be used for I/O only
[10:14:29] <witnit> yeah, i think i ran into this exact question with the 7i90 as well and you walked me through how it work. For some reason I see step generators and I think that must go with a bitfile and not provoked in hal
[10:15:30] <witnit> It was strange though, the encoder does not show anymore in the list, but i cant make sense of whats causing three step generators to show
[10:17:22] <micges> witnit: add num_stepgens=0
[10:17:38] <micges> to config string
[10:17:43] <witnit> ahh okay hahaha im sure thats the exact thing i did last time too
[10:18:03] <witnit> if i looked harder in the logfiles i would have found you probably telling me that same thing a couple months ago
[10:30:01] <witnit> micges i remember now, I tried that earlier and it failed to start due to "waiting for s.axes"
[10:30:24] <witnit> and i thought i was on the wrong track and removed the line
[10:43:49] <micges> witnit: it shouldn't be related
[10:44:31] <witnit> but when i put that line it crashes
[10:44:34] <micges> witnit: what sw and hw do you have?
[10:44:59] <witnit> 7i92 stock and 2.8
[10:45:27] <micges> what os?
[10:45:38] <witnit> debian
[10:45:58] <micges> uname -a ?
[10:47:05] <witnit> 3.4-9-rtai-686-pae #1 SMP PREEMPT Debian 3.4.55-4linuxcnc
[10:48:13] <JT-Shop> I ordered some reprap stuff from HK Monday and FedEx says it will be here tomorrow... that's fast
[10:48:24] <micges> witnit: 7i92 work stable only on rt-preempt kernel and ./configure --with-realtime=uspace
[10:49:39] <witnit> is there a current guide i should follow? the way i got this far, was very trial and error
[10:50:14] <witnit> they have a local distributor I bet jt
[10:51:53] <micges> witnit: start with docs for 2.8: http://www.linuxcnc.org/docs/devel/html/man/man9/hm2_eth.9.html
[10:55:09] <witnit> ok that part I think i got well, the part i ran into trouble was somewhere around ./configure and rt-preempt
[10:56:56] <micges> first install rt-preempt kernel and then reboot and recompile
[11:00:00] <witnit> got it
[11:00:02] <witnit> thank you
[11:02:02] <zeeshan|2> on a servo based system with positional feedback
[11:02:15] <zeeshan|2> if a servo drive decided to fault out during g-code execution
[11:02:21] <zeeshan|2> ie z axis
[11:02:39] <zeeshan|2> i'd get a f-error fault within my threshold
[11:02:44] <zeeshan|2> to stop all movement right?
[11:02:54] <zeeshan|2> (so x and y won't keep moving according to g-code program)
[11:18:07] <ssi> in theory it might not, but practically speaking yes
[11:18:39] <zeeshan|2> why not in theory
[11:19:17] <ssi> well if your program isn't moving Z, and somehow magically it manages to hold its position within your ferror
[11:19:23] <ssi> then you won't get an ferror fault
[11:19:37] <ssi> if you dno't have drive fault signals wired into your estop chain, then you might not get a stop condition
[11:19:53] <ssi> but the minute the program tried to move Z beyond the ferror limits, it'd fault
[11:19:55] <zeeshan|2> i really want to wire them in chain
[11:19:59] <zeeshan|2> but its beyond my skills
[11:19:59] <ssi> and if the axis sags, it'll fault
[11:20:03] <zeeshan|2> its a frigging 5v ttl signal
[11:20:08] <zeeshan|2> but my e-stop chain is 24vdc.
[11:20:13] <ssi> just bring the signals to IO pins
[11:20:16] <ssi> and wire them in via hal
[11:21:18] <zeeshan|2> and i guess for my spindle drive
[11:21:21] <zeeshan|2> i can do it over modbus
[11:21:29] <zeeshan|2> i can check for the fault bit in a loop
[11:21:43] <ssi> make the modbus driver that you wrote have a fault pin
[11:21:44] <zeeshan|2> if it is active, then i should also go in limp mode
[11:21:55] <ssi> then do with it what you wish
[11:22:11] <zeeshan|2> ssi the thing that confuses me electrically is this
[11:22:23] <zeeshan|2> i see that vfield can be whatever, if i give it 24vdc, itll deal with 24vdc i/o
[11:22:31] <zeeshan|2> for its associated bank
[11:22:37] <zeeshan|2> the confusion comes from the ground side
[11:22:44] <zeeshan|2> theres only 1 ground pin @ the field power
[11:23:01] <zeeshan|2> so would both my 5v and 24vdc grounds go to that pin?
[11:23:34] <ssi> it's better if you can keep them isolated, but if you can't then yes
[11:24:33] * zeeshan|2 is being lazy
[11:24:38] <zeeshan|2> more wiring scares me!
[11:24:53] <zeeshan|2> i'm thinking of any one of my drive faults
[11:24:57] <zeeshan|2> and the g-code is running
[11:25:08] <zeeshan|2> ASAP that axis moves within the 0.008 error band i think ive specified
[11:25:10] <zeeshan|2> it'll fault
[11:25:14] <zeeshan|2> like youre also saying
[11:25:33] <zeeshan|2> unlike on my stepper system
[11:25:35] <zeeshan|2> it'll keep going :)
[11:25:40] <ssi> right
[11:25:54] <zeeshan|2> i think thats good enough
[11:26:03] <zeeshan|2> if its a 1/16 end mill it wont like that
[11:26:08] <zeeshan|2> =D
[11:28:35] <zeeshan|2> lol the k8070d doesnt even have a fault pin
[11:28:55] <zeeshan|2> ssi did you hear
[11:28:58] <zeeshan|2> i blew up one of my amc drives?
[11:29:03] <ssi> ha no
[11:29:09] <zeeshan|2> i power cycled it
[11:29:17] <zeeshan|2> w/ the motors or nothing else running
[11:29:21] <zeeshan|2> was trying to service something
[11:29:30] <zeeshan|2> after 20 seconds, turned it on
[11:29:30] <zeeshan|2> BAM
[11:29:36] <zeeshan|2> a bunch of shit exploded
[11:29:41] <ssi> ug
[11:30:10] <zeeshan|2> i'd say they dont like power cycling
[11:30:17] <zeeshan|2> but then why didnt my x and y drive burn out too? :)
[11:30:27] <ssi> yeah I dunno about that
[11:30:44] <zeeshan|2> https://www.flickr.com/photos/128539016@N05/16406891086/
[11:30:48] <zeeshan|2> cap exploded
[11:30:54] <zeeshan|2> looks like some voltage regulator exploded
[11:30:55] <zeeshan|2> D
[11:32:23] <malcom2073_> Looks fixable :P
[11:33:05] <zeeshan|2> the components dont have names on em
[11:33:09] <zeeshan|2> so might be hard :)
[11:33:23] <ssi> lul
[11:33:29] <zeeshan|2> i guess you could probe a working drive to see what voltage the regulator was outputting
[11:33:36] <zeeshan|2> and just put a beefier one.
[11:33:42] <zeeshan|2> the cap has numbers on it
[11:33:47] <malcom2073_> Same with the resistor, or whatver blew up further up
[11:34:00] <zeeshan|2> the resistors are marked
[11:34:20] <zeeshan|2> i'm not gonna bother :P
[11:34:29] <malcom2073_> might be a mosfet, not a vreg
[11:34:32] <ssi> you have extras dont' you
[11:34:36] <zeeshan|2> yea
[11:34:39] <zeeshan|2> 1 extra
[11:34:47] <zeeshan|2> im gonna order some more as back up of back up
[11:34:50] <malcom2073_> Heh
[11:34:58] <malcom2073_> They fairly cheap then?
[11:35:01] <zeeshan|2> i just dont wanna blow it up
[11:35:06] <zeeshan|2> malcom2073_: theyre cheap used yea
[11:35:19] <malcom2073_> That's good
[11:35:24] <zeeshan|2> the only prob is
[11:35:33] <zeeshan|2> finding the ones with the inverted inhibit option
[11:35:36] <zeeshan|2> most of them are retarded
[11:35:42] <zeeshan|2> they're active asap you give power
[11:35:52] <ssi> dude
[11:35:55] <ssi> you can change it yourself
[11:35:59] <zeeshan|2> how
[11:36:07] <ssi> look for a resistor marked J1
[11:36:10] <zeeshan|2> https://www.flickr.com/photos/128539016@N05/16245459030/
[11:36:11] <ssi> on yours it'll probably be empty
[11:36:19] <ssi> on the regular ones it's got a 0R resistor there
[11:36:44] <Loetmichel> re @ home
[11:36:45] <ssi> i see it
[11:36:46] <ssi> top middle
[11:36:57] <zeeshan|2> you haVE fast eyes
[11:36:59] <zeeshan|2> i still am looking fo rit
[11:37:00] <zeeshan|2> haha
[11:37:05] <zeeshan|2> ok i see it
[11:37:11] <zeeshan|2> under the brown thing
[11:37:15] <zeeshan|2> with a white rectangle around it
[11:37:16] <zeeshan|2> its empty
[11:37:18] <ssi> yep
[11:37:24] <zeeshan|2> okay good to know!!
[11:37:25] <zeeshan|2> that helps a lot
[11:37:29] <ssi> :D
[11:37:36] <zeeshan|2> howd you figure that out
[11:37:40] <zeeshan|2> it wasn't in the damn manual
[11:37:45] <ssi> I dunno, I figured it out a long time ago
[11:37:52] <ssi> someone in here might have told me
[11:38:04] <ssi> http://www.a-m-c.com/support/glossary.html
[11:38:11] <ssi> scroll down to J1
[11:38:28] <ssi> I might have just googled amc servo drive inhibit and found that
[11:38:41] <zeeshan|2> ah
[11:38:42] <zeeshan|2> nice
[11:42:29] <zeeshan|2> need fooodddddddd
[11:44:07] <zeeshan|2> i wonder if i can take the non AC both
[11:44:15] <zeeshan|2> but be25a20
[11:44:18] <zeeshan|2> and swap the baord in there
[11:44:19] <zeeshan|2> lol
[11:44:26] <ssi> yeah
[11:44:38] <ssi> the AC ones just have a simple rectifier and filter in the top
[11:44:43] <ssi> same drive otherwise
[11:44:47] <zeeshan|2> http://www.ebay.com/itm/2-Advanced-Motion-Control-Servo-Amplifiers-BE25A20-Brushless-Drives-/221678130285?pt=LH_DefaultDomin_0&hash=item339d0bd46d
[11:44:54] <zeeshan|2> 2 of em!
[11:45:04] <ssi> I have three more drives sitting in a box unopened I believe
[11:45:10] <zeeshan|2> rofl
[11:45:17] <zeeshan|2> sell em to me!
[11:45:21] <ssi> cause I killed one, and the other was in the house when it burned
[11:45:23] <ssi> no I needs them!
[11:45:25] <zeeshan|2> lol
[11:45:38] <ssi> I haven't gotten back on the VMC :/
[11:45:39] <ssi> need to
[11:45:44] <zeeshan|2> so in the last couple of months
[11:45:49] <zeeshan|2> there have been 2 amc fatalities
[11:45:55] <ssi> yea
[11:45:56] <zeeshan|2> one saw a miserable death
[11:46:00] <ssi> I caused mine tho
[11:46:06] <zeeshan|2> i dont blame you
[11:46:10] <zeeshan|2> i see how easy it is to fry it
[11:46:17] <zeeshan|2> when using those dinky ass pots.
[11:46:21] <ssi> yeah
[11:46:22] <zeeshan|2> the screw driver slips SO EASY
[11:46:39] <zeeshan|2> im really happy that they give you probe points
[11:46:43] <zeeshan|2> so you can copy your values over
[11:46:48] <zeeshan|2> so i dont have to retune my drive
[11:47:00] <zeeshan|2> especially Z
[11:47:04] <zeeshan|2> which you have to deal wit hthe brake bs
[11:47:55] <zeeshan|2> get working on your vmc again! :P
[11:48:15] <ssi> I still need to sort out the commutation bs
[11:48:20] <ssi> and I lost all my damn electronics tools :(
[11:48:24] <zeeshan|2> sell all the drives
[11:48:28] <zeeshan|2> replace em with human drives
[11:48:32] <zeeshan|2> er
[11:48:34] <zeeshan|2> sell al lteh motors
[11:48:39] <zeeshan|2> fakin fanuc
[11:48:43] <ssi> heh
[11:48:48] <ssi> I don't really want to get rid of those motors tho
[11:48:55] <zeeshan|2> theyre nice
[11:49:39] <zeeshan|2> you lost your scope?
[11:49:43] <ssi> yeah :/
[11:49:59] <ssi> and my fpga programmer, and my bench supply, reflow oven, hot air station, etc
[11:50:34] <zeeshan|2> fak
[11:55:23] <witnit> i dont understand why these companies always wait forever to get me a print and then want the parts ready yesterday ahaha me >"Do you have a target date?" them > "We need them as soon as you can get them" every single time
[11:56:01] <witnit> oh noes ssi, what happened?
[11:56:15] <witnit> fire
[11:56:16] <ssi> oh you know, normal stuff
[11:56:17] <witnit> :(
[11:56:17] <ssi> yea
[11:56:21] <witnit> sorry about your losses
[11:56:24] <ssi> s'ok
[11:56:43] <malcom2073_> Doh, that sucks
[11:56:52] <witnit> you got a list of things you need replaced?
[11:56:59] <ssi> not really
[11:57:04] <ssi> I've been slacking on getting an inventory done
[11:57:23] <ssi> I've been slacking on a lot of things, really
[11:58:24] <witnit> i hear you, maybe when this snow clears up we will get back to business eh?
[11:58:38] <ssi> no snow here thankfully
[11:59:03] <witnit> i get "demotivated" during this time of the year
[12:00:20] <ssi> I've been pretty motivated, but only around building the pitts
[12:01:48] <ssi> https://pbs.twimg.com/media/B8yE-jWIgAAduWf.jpg:large
[12:01:50] <ssi> weeee
[12:03:18] <witnit> wear your helmet
[12:03:21] <witnit> =D
[12:04:41] <Bushman> guys, is there any mechanism in the software where i can quickly fit not quite parelel axis?
[12:05:05] <Bushman> umm..
[12:05:18] <Bushman> *parellel
[12:05:22] <Bushman> also...
[12:05:30] <Bushman> s/parellel/perpendicular/
[12:05:31] <Bushman> lol
[12:05:42] <Bushman> guys, is there any mechanism in the software where i can quickly fit not quite perpendicular axis?
[12:05:56] <Bushman> some sort of automatic correction?
[12:09:09] <roycroft> if you're talking about your spindle you should tram it
[12:22:53] <FinboySlick> Bushman: I don't know if it's easy but apparently it is possible.
[13:11:53] <witnit> bushman: Im not helpful usually, but i am curious haha are you meaning modifying > http://www.linuxcnc.org/docs/2.6/html/motion_kinematics.html#kinematics
[13:12:05] <witnit> errr
[13:12:10] <witnit> http://www.linuxcnc.org/docs/2.4/html/motion_kinematics.html#kinematics
[13:17:46] <micges> Bushman: if you mean XY skew correction it's possible
[13:18:35] <micges> Bushman: http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?ContributedComponents#millkins_trivial_kinematics_extended_by_XY_skew_correction
[13:20:30] <ssi> it's probably saner and easier to just make the machine square :P
[13:26:30] <Jymmm> spherical
[13:33:09] <witnit> double helix kinematics please
[13:38:23] <marmite> i love my vacuum pump :D
[13:40:50] <micges> ssi: surely it it, but sometimes it's impossible
[13:43:15] <PetefromTn_> yeah man I am kinda liking mine too ;)
[13:43:56] <PetefromTn_> unfortunately the place I ordered my damn shiny new chrome vacuum gauge screwed up and sent me some kind holley branded rubber check valve instead :O
[13:44:46] <PetefromTn_> but as usual Mcmaster Carr came thru and got me the two types of rubber gasket here today in short order and correctly stocked LOL
[13:45:02] <PetefromTn_> I also received the two E-stop buttons I ordered.
[13:46:21] <marmite> naw :D
[13:46:37] <marmite> just ordered my 6mm push connector filter and valve
[13:46:58] <marmite> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7g7_OCDLq2I so ghetto :D
[13:50:57] <Jymmm> Screw ghetto, LOUD AS FUCK!!!
[13:51:26] <marmite> yeah the pump is in a metal can :P
[13:51:46] <Jymmm> It could be in siberia, still LOUD AS HELL!!!
[13:51:57] <marmite> i have fixed a secound pump, so i can run then on 12v insteed of 15 :P and i will make enclosure that is alot of silencing
[13:52:00] <marmite> :P
[13:52:10] <Jymmm> No it won't!
[13:52:38] <Jymmm> what pump is that?
[13:52:47] <marmite> from a car
[13:52:57] <marmite> like a volvo cruice controll pump
[13:52:57] <PetefromTn_> honestly I am quite pleased with the pump I got so far it is very quiet
[13:52:58] <Jymmm> car what?
[13:53:00] <marmite> costs med 10 usd
[13:53:21] <Jymmm> washer fluid pump?
[13:53:47] <marmite> two of them in serial and hide them in something more silent thens its good
[13:53:48] <marmite> nop
[13:53:54] <marmite> cruice controll vacuum pump
[13:54:02] <Jymmm> ah.
[13:54:12] <marmite> dirt cheap
[13:54:18] <Jymmm> Eh for $10, get a $4 pair of ear muffs =)
[13:54:23] <marmite> :P
[13:54:35] <marmite> wont be neading them when the build is complete
[13:55:53] <witnit> I wonder if anyone made a list of key items to be used in industrial builds from items in a scrap car, servos, sensors, relays, pumps, etc
[13:56:22] <marmite> ohh that would be a good one
[13:56:29] <marmite> alot of usefull items in a car or truck
[13:57:23] <marmite> theres gotta be huge vaccum pumps in a truck
[13:58:04] <marmite> and i have a vacuum tankt from a audi aswell
[13:58:15] <Loetmichel> good evening... today is a good day... my car garage guy called. my car is ready for TUEV (MOT)... he did 4 new tyres, new brake pads around, welded the exhaust, changed both front axle wishbone rubbers, alinged the wheels and mended the vaccum system tubes. Tuev will be tomorrow as it was already closed today. and the best thing: he charges me 605€ for all that, Including the Tuev charges...
[13:58:39] <witnit> yeah a good industrial electronics guys that was also very well familiar with car components could really shed some light on a subject, i mean for example door switches, any one of us could go to a junkyard and bring back enough switches to supply every user in here for a lifetime
[13:59:02] <witnit> fantastic
[14:01:44] <CaptHindsight> hydraulic and electric clutches and flywheels
[14:02:46] <PetefromTn_> yeah man there is so much stuff....you could almost build a car with it ;)
[14:03:11] <CaptHindsight> dashboard instrument panel for UI
[14:04:48] <witnit> gas pedal would do nicely on a lathe
[14:05:28] <CaptHindsight> isn't there a website with machine tools that are all made from used auto drive trains?
[14:05:41] <CaptHindsight> think they even wrote a book on it
[14:06:35] <CaptHindsight> http://opensourcemachine.org/
[14:06:56] <CaptHindsight> http://opensourcemachine.org/mm2html2/How_to_build_a_multimachine.html
[14:07:27] <CaptHindsight> slices dices mills and drills
[14:10:09] <Jymmm> but can it make a good cup of coffee?
[14:10:25] <Jymmm> priorities
[14:10:31] <witnit> how do you like your coffee?
[14:10:43] <Jymmm> tasty
[14:10:50] <witnit> no, it cant do that
[14:11:02] <CaptHindsight> "coffee maker made from auto parts" search on Google came up with mixed results
[14:11:23] <ssi> does it make a substance which almost, but not entirely, unlike coffee?
[14:11:41] <witnit> i hung my 7i92 on the wall so would not accidently spill coffee on it
[14:11:58] <CaptHindsight> indistinguishable from Starbucks
[14:12:04] <witnit> lights are easy to see too
[14:15:57] <CaptHindsight> anyone know what they use for steam pumps in the higher end espresso makers?
[14:16:54] <CaptHindsight> or do they just superheat the steam
[14:18:13] <witnit> PCW: I wonder when mesa will be putting out a micro sized lightweight AIO for low electricity usage, remote robotics, solar powered and aquatic/flying realtime devices =D
[14:18:59] <CaptHindsight> sounds very makerish
[14:19:54] <PetefromTn_> Man that thing is an AMAZING piece of work....er junk LOL
[14:20:16] <CaptHindsight> PetefromTn_: the multimachine?
[14:20:20] <Jymmm> "But, but, but, it's OPEN SOURCE !!!"
[14:20:25] <PetefromTn_> hehe
[14:20:45] <witnit> If I want a robot to fly up to a water tower and paint a michaelangelo on it.. i think its just what we need
[14:20:49] <PetefromTn_> take yer pick
[14:21:18] <PetefromTn_> we don't need no STEENKIN' flyin' robots man..
[14:21:23] <CaptHindsight> lets say you get stranded on an island with just your car. How will you ever be able to mill anything otherwise?
[14:21:31] <ssi> I love how all these maker dweebs create junk out of garbage, and explain it away with handwaviness about "humanitarianism"
[14:21:35] <Jymmm> witnit: Um, that's actually doable
[14:21:41] <witnit> i know
[14:21:44] <witnit> :)
[14:22:05] <witnit> stabilizing camera dohiccy and a quadcopter ought to get you pretty far
[14:22:31] <PetefromTn_> yeah but I doubt you will be painting any michaelangelo's with it heh
[14:22:48] <witnit> it would have high resolution
[14:23:06] <witnit> it could just fly very close and do small passes
[14:23:26] <PetefromTn_> high altitude maybe
[14:23:33] <witnit> the guys in this room could build it
[14:23:35] <witnit> no doubts
[14:23:39] <CaptHindsight> teleoperated helio-cnc-airbrush
[14:23:43] <witnit> yep
[14:23:50] <witnit> billionairs all of us
[14:23:54] <witnit> if we cared to try it
[14:24:08] <CaptHindsight> would placing a big sticker be acceptable?
[14:24:13] <ssi> :D
[14:24:21] <PetefromTn_> yeah man I hear there is a HUGE market in drone michaelangelo's
[14:24:32] <witnit> dont crush my dreams
[14:24:48] <CaptHindsight> it's non-profit, it's a humanitarian project
[14:24:53] <PetefromTn_> Oh I'm sorry did I piss in your cheerio's?
[14:24:59] <witnit> =D
[14:26:33] <witnit> you could do on site car detailing
[14:26:54] <CaptHindsight> Imagine if there's another tidal wave or earthquake that destroys the coasts of Indonesia ... these could fly in and place artwork on whats left
[14:26:56] <PetefromTn_> aw man no that is for babes in bikini's...
[14:26:58] <witnit> or welding way up high in usual spots
[14:28:33] <CaptHindsight> I should patent welding goggles for autonomous vehicles now
[14:28:56] <witnit> imagine a CNC quadcopter with a build on drill and hydraulic press, it could go through and replace rivets on a bridge
[14:29:11] <witnit> no people involved just set it and forget it
[14:29:29] <PetefromTn_> you really don't know much about quadcopters do ya LOL
[14:29:35] <ssi> when the first MIT quadcopter videos came out, some friends and I sat down and designed and built a quadcopter that could carry a 15 pound rifle
[14:29:51] <ssi> I couldn't get the control loops stable on it
[14:29:53] <ssi> too much rotor inertia :(
[14:30:05] <CaptHindsight> how about a bridge made of quadcopters, it could fly to where it's needed
[14:30:11] <witnit> well what is there to know about them?
[14:30:14] <ssi> had four 600W brushless motors on it, and 14" rigid RC plane propellers
[14:30:17] <ssi> fucking thing was deadly
[14:30:30] <witnit> oooh how long was it deadly for?
[14:30:35] <PetefromTn_> like a freakin' flying cuisinart nightmare
[14:30:56] <ssi> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zV5HZIDCn58
[14:31:00] <CaptHindsight> sounds like a nice anti-drone drone
[14:32:28] <witnit> i am a bit scared of that
[14:32:35] <ssi> yeah, so were we
[14:32:45] <ssi> I went back and built a smaller one when it became clear that wasn't gonna work
[14:32:48] <ssi> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4eROXtMq4Q4
[14:32:49] <witnit> did you have to squint when you watched it?
[14:32:53] <ssi> but even that one wasn't responsive enough
[14:34:36] <witnit> Im sure if you tethered a gang of gas powered ones together you could do some interesting projects
[14:35:46] <ssi> thing is, quadrotors like that only have control via differential lift and torque
[14:36:01] <ssi> and in order to make them stable, the system has to be responsive enough to correct for it
[14:36:15] <ssi> which means very small motors with very light rotors
[14:36:18] <ssi> and therefore, very light payloads
[14:36:35] <ssi> the only practical way to do bigger rotorcraft is with pitch control
[14:36:44] <ssi> or tilting head like a gyrocopter
[14:36:49] <PetefromTn_> there are some now that use tilt rotor designs and have motors that are like servos that can reverse on a dime etc...
[14:38:52] <CaptHindsight> I wonder when we'll hear our first news story about a "toy" drone being used against a spy drone over the US
[14:39:00] <witnit> yeah they are very capable machines now, they are a bit scary to think about what kinds of payloads they can carry
[14:39:14] <ssi> I heard someting the othjer day about a toy drone crashing on the white house lawn, and now obama wants to ban "drones"
[14:39:27] <zeeshan|2> ownt
[14:39:28] <zeeshan|2> :D
[14:39:43] <CaptHindsight> good way to make an impression so drone rights can be limited
[14:40:13] <CaptHindsight> why come nobody cared about the drone that landed on my lawn?
[14:41:20] <ssi> https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-8eSaafb9gLA/RZs_KeFPLnI/AAAAAAAAAQ0/dAMFqD-9ORc/s1024/DSC_4196.JPG
[14:41:28] <ssi> I once lost that entire pilots side window at 5500'
[14:41:30] <malcom2073_> ssi: He doesn't want to ban them, he wants them to be regulated, as they *should* be. RC flight has all sorts of rules that these idiots flying drones think they're exempt from
[14:41:39] <zeeshan|2> ROFL
[14:41:44] <zeeshan|2> youre busy taking a pic
[14:41:49] <zeeshan|2> while flying with no window
[14:41:50] <zeeshan|2> now
[14:41:51] <zeeshan|2> *nice
[14:41:58] <ssi> when I got home, I was lying on the couch with the tv off but the sound was coming over the stereo kinda softly
[14:41:59] <zeeshan|2> and at night time too!
[14:42:10] <ssi> and I hear "a south atlanta couple reported an object falling from space into their back yard"
[14:42:15] <zeeshan|2> ssi: what is the window made out of?
[14:42:17] <zeeshan|2> lexan?
[14:42:20] <ssi> acrylic
[14:42:26] <zeeshan|2> why not lexan
[14:42:28] <zeeshan|2> about same weight
[14:42:42] <zeeshan|2> SSI ROFL
[14:42:44] <ssi> acrylic forms easier
[14:42:44] <zeeshan|2> hahahaha
[14:43:04] <zeeshan|2> UFO !
[14:43:50] <CaptHindsight> ssi: do you have to make a report to the FAA when your plane loses something in flight?
[14:43:53] <ssi> no
[14:44:22] <ssi> I was under positive control at the time because I was flying over hartsfield, and I told the controller
[14:44:32] <ssi> he asked if I was declaring an emergency
[14:44:33] <zeeshan|2> ssi
[14:44:39] <ssi> I said no, it was windy but otherwise controllable
[14:44:39] <zeeshan|2> how do you not crash into commercial air liners
[14:44:48] <ssi> zeeshan|2: the sky is fucking huge
[14:44:50] <ssi> ever been up there?
[14:44:52] <zeeshan|2> yes
[14:44:53] <zeeshan|2> but like
[14:44:54] <ssi> it's crazy how big it is
[14:44:58] <zeeshan|2> dont you guys have ceiling restrictions?
[14:45:03] <ssi> not exactly
[14:45:06] <zeeshan|2> to stop collisions from happening
[14:45:12] <zeeshan|2> do you need a transponder?
[14:45:17] <ssi> depends
[14:45:23] <zeeshan|2> i remember seeing this on mayday
[14:45:26] <zeeshan|2> that a small plane had no transponder
[14:45:32] <zeeshan|2> since faa regulations dont require them to have one
[14:45:39] <zeeshan|2> and it crashed into a commercial airliner
[14:45:39] <malcom2073_> I've been in a big airline when it had to uh, "avoid" a small plane
[14:45:45] <CaptHindsight> aren't you given permission to fly within a certain window, heading and altitude
[14:45:52] <malcom2073_> That was fun
[14:46:10] <ssi> again, it depends
[14:46:26] <zeeshan|2> how does a commercial pilot
[14:46:31] <ssi> above 18,000' is class A airspace
[14:46:33] <malcom2073_> Not only is the sky huge, but it's very easy to move very fast out of the way, when you point down
[14:46:33] <zeeshan|2> know that you're not doing zig zags in the middle of night
[14:46:42] <ssi> everything in class A is under positive control
[14:46:50] <ssi> I can fly there, but physics tends to say no in the planes I fly
[14:47:07] <ssi> the RV will be able to get up there, but you need oxygen, and it's not super comfortable in an unpressurized plane
[14:47:21] <ssi> airliners ONLY fly above 18k except takeoff and landing
[14:47:31] <ssi> because it's far more efficient for jets to be high
[14:47:34] <zeeshan|2> yes but im more concerned
[14:47:39] <zeeshan|2> w/ during landing and takeoff
[14:47:43] <zeeshan|2> how do you guys stop from crashing into each other
[14:47:46] <zeeshan|2> are you flying by sight?
[14:47:49] <ssi> they more or less only takeoff and land from class B airports
[14:47:51] <zeeshan|2> but at night that is not possible
[14:47:55] <ssi> class B also requires positive control
[14:48:17] <ssi> I was on a flight plan when I took that picture because I was almost directly over atlanta airport
[14:48:28] <zeeshan|2> are there restrictions
[14:48:32] <zeeshan|2> on approach around an airport?
[14:48:36] <zeeshan|2> ive seen it on mayday!
[14:48:40] <ssi> in the case of atlanta, all KATL's runways are east west, so they run crossing traffic north/south at 5500'
[14:50:05] <ssi> there's really not that much interplay between GA and airliners
[14:50:23] <ssi> and airliners are always on an IFR plan, and the controllers can see GA airplanes even if they have no transponder
[14:50:32] <ssi> they just can't tell what altitude they're at
[14:50:39] <zeeshan|2> sh
[14:50:40] <zeeshan|2> ah
[14:50:41] <zeeshan|2> i mean
[14:50:53] <ssi> there's a primary return, which is the actual radar reflection
[14:50:57] <CaptHindsight> ssi: are there any certifications required to make your plane legal to take off and fly?
[14:51:00] <ssi> then theres' the secondary, which is the transponder's return
[14:51:12] <CaptHindsight> ssi: when you build them
[14:51:19] <ssi> secondary contains a mode A 10 bit code and optionally a mode C altitude code
[14:51:34] <ssi> and nowadays starting to have mode S unique serial number with gps data, for the ADS-B system
[14:51:43] <zeeshan|2> how much does it cost to land your plane
[14:51:46] <ssi> CaptHindsight: just an airworthiness certificate
[14:51:47] <zeeshan|2> at atlanta airport
[14:51:58] <ssi> zeeshan|2: I dunno... ramp fees are significant I'm sure
[14:51:59] <ssi> $70 or so
[14:52:01] <zeeshan|2> ssi is getting bombarded with questions
[14:52:02] <zeeshan|2> :)
[14:52:04] <ssi> it's a foolish thing to do
[14:52:19] <zeeshan|2> well like in an emergency
[14:52:22] <zeeshan|2> do you still pay it? :-)
[14:52:22] <zeeshan|2> heh
[14:52:26] <CaptHindsight> my brother went to Parks to study aircraft engineering and maintenance
[14:52:30] <ssi> everything goes out the window in an emergency
[14:52:51] <CaptHindsight> ssi: who awards you that cert?
[14:52:51] <zeeshan|2> i guess the airport can be held accountable
[14:52:54] <zeeshan|2> if they dont let you land there
[14:53:01] <zeeshan|2> and you crash and kill a buncha people
[14:53:01] <zeeshan|2> :P
[14:53:12] <ssi> CaptHindsight: the regional FSDO, or a Designated Airworthiness Representative
[14:53:19] <zeeshan|2> im scared shitless of flying
[14:53:26] <zeeshan|2> i flew prolly 100+ times in airliners
[14:53:32] <ssi> zeeshan|2: ugh... $190 per 12 hours
[14:53:33] <zeeshan|2> but it only took one for me to never want to fly again
[14:53:38] <zeeshan|2> wow ssi!
[14:53:39] <ssi> http://www.atlanta-airport.com/docs/Facilities/AIRCRAFT%20PARKING%20CHARGES%20and%20LANDING%20FEE%20FY13.pdf
[14:53:46] <CaptHindsight> ssi: do they stop in like in building construction, during the rough-in and then for a final?
[14:53:48] <ssi> and that's just to the city
[14:53:52] <ssi> the FBO may charge tehir own ramp fees
[14:54:07] <ssi> CaptHindsight: no... you can get tech counselors to come by and inspect if you want
[14:54:13] <ssi> but the DAR or FSDO just comes at the end
[14:54:19] <ssi> and I just found out technically they don't have to inspect anything
[14:54:29] <zeeshan|2> how about landing it at the airport your hangers are at
[14:54:31] <ssi> they issue the certificate based on your signature as the manufacturer that it's airworthy
[14:54:32] <zeeshan|2> something more in the outskirts
[14:54:37] <ssi> but they'll inspect as a courtesy
[14:54:44] <ssi> zeeshan|2: no fees at my airport
[14:54:53] <ssi> it varies based on how busy and snooty an airport is
[14:55:04] <zeeshan|2> well atlanta is a stupid busy airport
[14:55:08] <zeeshan|2> like what #5 in the world?
[14:55:10] <zeeshan|2> i dont remember
[14:55:20] <ssi> it's #1 in the country
[14:55:28] <ssi> atl and ohare flip back and forth
[14:55:31] <ssi> and I think 2 in the world
[14:55:41] <zeeshan|2> youre right
[14:55:44] <zeeshan|2> its #1
[14:55:45] <ssi> nope 1 in the world now
[14:55:51] <ssi> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World's_busiest_airports_by_passenger_traffic
[14:55:52] <zeeshan|2> so i guess its not too expensive for them to charge that money.
[14:56:15] <ssi> wow ohare slipped below LAX
[14:56:17] <CaptHindsight> do they discourage the use of small aircraft during busy times of the day?
[14:56:34] <ssi> at hartsfield they discourage small aircraft all the time :)
[14:56:51] <zeeshan|2> according to my knowledge from mayday
[14:56:55] <zeeshan|2> it doesnt matter what airport it is
[14:57:02] <zeeshan|2> in an emergency they'll let you land
[14:57:12] <ssi> yes absolutely
[14:57:12] <zeeshan|2> there was one episode they landed @ some military airport
[14:57:13] <zeeshan|2> lol
[14:57:24] <ssi> like I said, in an emergency there are no rules
[14:58:04] <zeeshan|2> i need to get rid of my fear of flying
[14:58:10] <zeeshan|2> i was flying qatar airwayts
[14:58:12] <zeeshan|2> their first flight.
[14:58:21] <zeeshan|2> engine shut down
[14:58:29] <zeeshan|2> airport limped back to the airport
[14:58:36] <zeeshan|2> :P
[14:58:46] <ssi> everything went as it should have
[14:58:50] <zeeshan|2> it was a glider
[14:58:51] <ssi> no reason to let that make you nervous :)
[14:58:54] <zeeshan|2> for a brief movement
[14:58:58] <zeeshan|2> cause it had a double engine fairlure
[14:59:02] <zeeshan|2> at 15,000 feet
[14:59:08] <zeeshan|2> then they restarted one
[14:59:09] <toastydeath> the glide ratio of those things is like 30:1
[14:59:11] <ssi> you sure? that's pretty rare :P
[14:59:14] <zeeshan|2> yea dude
[14:59:20] * Tom_itx plops down in the chair
[14:59:20] <zeeshan|2> people were screaming and shit
[14:59:36] <zeeshan|2> then went quiet after 1 engine came on
[14:59:38] <ssi> toastydeath: I don't think it's quite that good :)
[14:59:39] <CaptHindsight> or land at the wrong airport http://www.usatoday.com/story/travel/flights/2013/11/21/boeing-dreamlifter-kansas-airport/3661511/
[14:59:48] <PetefromTn_> must've been messy in there
[14:59:53] <toastydeath> the most conservative I can find for large jets is 15:1
[14:59:54] <zeeshan|2> LOL CaptHindsight
[15:00:00] <toastydeath> so i'll go with that
[15:00:15] <ssi> "A clean 727-200 has a glide ratio of 17:1. A clean MD-80 has a glide ratio of 28:1. A clean 747-200 has a glide ratio of 17:1 as well."
[15:00:16] <toastydeath> that's a 40 mile radius
[15:00:33] <ssi> it's definitely good
[15:00:37] <zeeshan|2> i think my only way to get over the fear
[15:00:37] <ssi> the high aspect wings help a lot there
[15:00:40] <zeeshan|2> is fly in a small plate
[15:00:42] <zeeshan|2> *plane
[15:00:46] <zeeshan|2> where i can see whats up
[15:00:48] <toastydeath> ...
[15:00:50] <_methods> jump out of one
[15:00:51] <ssi> zeeshan|2: come hang out, we can fix that
[15:00:52] <toastydeath> Small planes are way more dangerous
[15:00:54] <_methods> that will fix ya right up
[15:01:00] <zeeshan|2> toastydeath: at least you know youre gonna die
[15:01:06] <zeeshan|2> with a commercial liner
[15:01:07] <zeeshan|2> you cant see shit
[15:01:08] <ssi> yeah for the record they are way more dangerous
[15:01:11] <zeeshan|2> especially from the middle seat
[15:01:12] <ssi> but they're still not that dangerous
[15:01:18] <ssi> driving is WAY more dangerous :P
[15:01:19] <zeeshan|2> imagine being in a box
[15:01:22] <zeeshan|2> and knowing youre gonna die
[15:01:47] <ssi> haha my friend BJ says he prefers to fly at low altitude cause it's safer
[15:01:52] <zeeshan|2> i can just imagine ssi taking me for a ride
[15:01:55] <ssi> we all tell him that it's absolutely safer to be high
[15:01:56] <zeeshan|2> and doing zig zags
[15:01:57] <zeeshan|2> haha
[15:02:05] <ssi> he says "yeah but if I lose a wing I don't want time to think about it"
[15:02:11] <PetefromTn_> Woohoo... I just got my power bill. LOL
[15:02:18] <ssi> PetefromTn_: uh oh
[15:02:24] <PetefromTn_> and it was only $128
[15:02:24] <ssi> time to pay for all that work you've been doing :)
[15:02:26] <ssi> oh wow
[15:02:36] <PetefromTn_> last year it was $400.00
[15:02:39] <PetefromTn_> for the same month
[15:02:46] <PetefromTn_> granted it has not been as cold
[15:02:50] <CaptHindsight> PetefromTn_: that new AC unit is making the difference even in winter :)
[15:02:51] <witnit> nice, you insulated?
[15:02:57] <PetefromTn_> but still I guess my new AC unit is kickin ass..
[15:03:17] <PetefromTn_> this makes PETEFROMTN VERY HAPPY!! :D
[15:03:52] <PetefromTn_> that really is amazing honestly
[15:04:08] <PetefromTn_> because this past month I ran the machine quite a bit more than usual too
[15:04:19] <PetefromTn_> I EXPECTED a highish bill
[15:04:31] <PetefromTn_> so that was a nice surprise
[15:05:10] <CaptHindsight> PetefromTn_: you bill would be higher if it was a commercial account or they based it on demand vs just kWh used
[15:05:42] <ssi> zeeshan|2: why don't you come visit, we'll get all my machines running and get you over your fears at the same time :)
[15:05:46] <PetefromTn_> that may be but it sounds like I did not use too many KWH in the first place
[15:05:50] <zeeshan|2> haha
[15:05:54] <CaptHindsight> we pay much more if we turn everything on at the same time in the summer
[15:05:57] <zeeshan|2> maybe over the summer!
[15:06:17] <zeeshan|2> i warn you though, if i work on a cnc machine
[15:06:22] <zeeshan|2> you'll see a 200A fuse for it
[15:06:23] <zeeshan|2> :-)
[15:06:34] <ssi> if you can find me a 200A fuse, I'll use it :)
[15:06:46] <PetefromTn_> ssi Too bad your plane is not bigger we are planning a trip to Florida soon LOL
[15:06:47] <ssi> actually yeah you need to come down and rewire my hangar for 100A for the VMC
[15:07:01] <zeeshan|2> i forget
[15:07:03] <zeeshan|2> is it 3 phase?
[15:07:05] <CaptHindsight> zeeshan|2: has 30A fuses and 10ga THHN to his toaster oven :p
[15:07:05] <ssi> PetefromTn_: if dan would hurry up and get his 6 fixed I could accomodate!
[15:07:11] <ssi> zeeshan|2: it was originally, now it's single phase
[15:07:15] <zeeshan|2> ah
[15:08:44] <PetefromTn_> anyone need a pair of rubber check valves for Holley carbs? I sure as hell don't need them LOL
[15:08:58] <CaptHindsight> rubber
[15:09:04] <zeeshan|2> whats a carb
[15:09:04] <Tom_itx> stuff a double pumper on that bronco!!!
[15:09:11] <zeeshan|2> :-)
[15:09:12] <PetefromTn_> screw that
[15:09:16] <CaptHindsight> heh, my floats used to stick open at times
[15:09:23] <zeeshan|2> ive never ever worked on a carb before
[15:09:27] <zeeshan|2> :D
[15:09:38] <CaptHindsight> I love carbs
[15:09:39] <Tom_itx> i've done dozens of em
[15:09:43] <PetefromTn_> I used to put weber carbs on the Suzuki samurai Rock crawlers I built
[15:09:47] <zeeshan|2> i should learn about them
[15:09:51] <zeeshan|2> cause theyre on my weedwacker
[15:09:59] <PetefromTn_> they were really reliable
[15:10:06] <Tom_itx> those aren't really carbs :D
[15:10:10] <zeeshan|2> o
[15:10:12] <zeeshan|2> what are they
[15:10:15] <CaptHindsight> distributors with centrifugal weights and advance springs
[15:10:19] <Tom_itx> well they are but....
[15:10:19] <PetefromTn_> but you had to turn them around backwards on the plenum or they would flood out on high angles
[15:10:22] <ssi> haha look what I found digging through my pictures
[15:10:22] <ssi> https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-XeFFr6aeNb4/R8ZDwJYipII/AAAAAAAAB7Y/jaM3nrP8uD4/s1280/DSC_3463.JPG
[15:10:30] <zeeshan|2> lol
[15:10:31] <zeeshan|2> wtf
[15:10:38] <zeeshan|2> where is the plane
[15:10:52] <ssi> the idiot that runs the line service at my old airport brought a start cart out to help the guy get his 182 started
[15:11:00] <PetefromTn_> we also had to put a mechanical fuel pressure regulator on them or they would flood out..
[15:11:08] <ssi> said idiot was under the impression that you can use a 24V start cart on a 12V airplane if you "turn the current down"
[15:11:14] <ssi> he got away with that somehow for a long time
[15:11:17] <ssi> this time he didn't :D
[15:11:19] <zeeshan|2> HBAHAH
[15:11:45] <zeeshan|2> prolly got away with it cause most people overnegineer the wiring
[15:11:51] <ssi> it had 85 gallons of fuel onboard
[15:11:57] <ssi> there was a column of flame 200' tall
[15:11:58] <ssi> it was amazing
[15:12:08] <zeeshan|2> did you bbq marshmellows
[15:12:25] <zeeshan|2> hey btw
[15:12:28] <zeeshan|2> what kind of gas is it?
[15:12:32] <ssi> 100LL
[15:12:58] <zeeshan|2> interesting
[15:12:59] <zeeshan|2> lead in there
[15:13:05] <ssi> yeah
[15:13:06] <zeeshan|2> so it prolly doesnt knock as much
[15:13:16] <zeeshan|2> lead is a sweet det inhibitor :D
[15:13:19] <zeeshan|2> or preventor i guess
[15:13:20] <ssi> which is silly because airplane engines are very low compression
[15:13:27] <zeeshan|2> how much
[15:13:40] <ssi> most lycs are either 7:1, 8.5:1, or 8.7:1
[15:13:45] <zeeshan|2> lol
[15:13:52] <zeeshan|2> you can prolly run 20 psi of boost in those
[15:14:06] <zeeshan|2> with like 20 degres of timing at mbt
[15:14:12] <zeeshan|2> before you'd prolly knock on that
[15:14:22] <ssi> well it's a little different
[15:14:27] <ssi> because they run low speed high torque all the time
[15:14:33] <zeeshan|2> ah
[15:14:35] <zeeshan|2> so they run hot
[15:14:37] <ssi> they're big bore air cooled flat engines
[15:14:43] <ssi> 5.25" bore
[15:14:53] <ssi> 360 cubic inch four cyl, or 540ci six cyl
[15:14:55] <PetefromTn_> you could put a weber on it ;)
[15:15:07] <ssi> an 8.7:1 540 makes 300hp at 2700rpm
[15:15:10] <ssi> that's a pile of torque
[15:15:13] <zeeshan|2> can you run em too long on the ground?
[15:15:20] <zeeshan|2> or will they overheat
[15:15:23] <ssi> yeah they don't cool well on the ground
[15:15:31] <ssi> but it's tough to run them full power on the ground anyway
[15:15:54] <ssi> only thing holding you in place is wheel chocks and/or brakes, and that's not remarkably safe :P
[15:16:04] <zeeshan|2> whats the typical rpm?
[15:16:07] <zeeshan|2> for redline
[15:16:09] <zeeshan|2> and operating
[15:16:11] <ssi> 2700rpm redline
[15:16:13] <zeeshan|2> hahaha
[15:16:18] <zeeshan|2> okay i get you now
[15:16:29] <ssi> do this math mr engineer
[15:16:36] <CaptHindsight> http://www.ebay.com/itm/Rochester-4-barrel-Quadrajet-Carb-1705920-Gm-Chevy-/171662750200
[15:16:39] <ssi> at 2700rpm, how fast are the tips of a 74" prop moving?
[15:16:58] <ssi> if you approach the speed of sound, the tips cavitate and efficiency goes to shit
[15:17:01] <ssi> that's why they run slow
[15:17:01] <zeeshan|2> convert the 2700 rpm to rad/s
[15:17:05] <zeeshan|2> and multiple by 74/2
[15:17:08] <zeeshan|2> i think
[15:17:09] <zeeshan|2> :)
[15:17:14] <zeeshan|2> v = rw
[15:17:28] <zeeshan|2> okay so if you run anyfaster
[15:17:32] <zeeshan|2> you'll prolly destroy the prop
[15:17:35] <zeeshan|2> from centrifugal force
[15:17:41] <ssi> eh not necessarily
[15:17:45] <CaptHindsight> 74" radius or dia?
[15:17:48] <ssi> dia
[15:17:49] <zeeshan|2> so its more a fluid restriction
[15:17:54] <zeeshan|2> than strength
[15:18:00] <zeeshan|2> well ultimately its strength
[15:18:03] <ssi> it's all of the above :)
[15:18:07] <zeeshan|2> but cavitation is not good :P
[15:18:13] <ssi> but the primary reason that it's done that way is fluid dynamics
[15:18:34] <ssi> obv the props and engines aren't designed to run faster so they don't
[15:18:51] <ssi> there's a lot of rotating mass in a 360cid 4 cyl
[15:19:00] <ssi> and these engines have big sloppy clearances
[15:19:02] <ssi> they're very simple engines
[15:19:10] <CaptHindsight> is that why planes will never travel faster than the sped of sound? :)
[15:19:15] <zeeshan|2> sloppy cause they run hot i'd think?
[15:19:22] <zeeshan|2> you rather have them inefficient
[15:19:22] <ssi> that's why PROP planes will never travel faster than the speed of sound :)
[15:19:25] <zeeshan|2> than have them seize up
[15:19:30] <ssi> exactly
[15:19:38] <CaptHindsight> except for in a dive
[15:19:41] <ssi> it's amazing the shit that can fail on them without seizing
[15:20:02] <ssi> CaptHindsight: most prop planes won't hold up to anything like mach1+ in a dive
[15:20:09] <ssi> they'll just rip to pieces, or flutter to pieces
[15:20:15] <ssi> oh man
[15:20:19] <ssi> zeee you need to learn about flutter
[15:20:24] <ssi> and help me design around it
[15:20:33] <zeeshan|2> if i design it
[15:20:35] <zeeshan|2> you'll never fly
[15:20:41] <zeeshan|2> your plane will weight 123908230982 x more than it should
[15:20:44] <ssi> true
[15:20:47] <zeeshan|2> :)
[15:20:50] <ssi> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aeroelasticity
[15:20:53] <malcom2073_> Man, my cars break down enough that I work on, I can't imagine working on a plane
[15:20:55] <malcom2073_> much less designing one
[15:21:04] <CaptHindsight> maybe P51 and the P-38
[15:21:32] <zeeshan|2> lol
[15:21:33] <zeeshan|2> thats cool
[15:21:50] <zeeshan|2> put a servo in that bish
[15:22:01] <zeeshan|2> contro lthe rate of fuel transfer from tank to tank!
[15:22:02] <zeeshan|2> :P
[15:22:15] <ssi> fuel imbalance isn't the kind of thing I'm concerned with :)
[15:22:19] <zeeshan|2> well
[15:22:24] <zeeshan|2> im thinking of adding damping
[15:22:30] <ssi> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iTFZNrTYp3k
[15:22:43] <zeeshan|2> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vibration#mediaviewer/File:Forced_Vibration_Response.png
[15:22:46] <zeeshan|2> have you seen this graph
[15:22:51] <zeeshan|2> this is like the most important graph in vibrations
[15:23:10] <zeeshan|2> ssi lol
[15:23:12] <zeeshan|2> that looks scary
[15:23:24] <ssi> it's pretty much the scariest thing in aircraft design :P
[15:23:28] <zeeshan|2> i think if you tuned it
[15:23:38] <zeeshan|2> to have some dapening
[15:23:41] <zeeshan|2> itd help
[15:23:45] <zeeshan|2> if you look at that weird letter
[15:23:48] <zeeshan|2> zeta or whatever its called
[15:23:52] <zeeshan|2> thats the damping ratio
[15:24:13] <zeeshan|2> you can see how much a little bit of damping does to decrease the amplitude ratio @ frequency ratio of 1
[15:24:25] <CaptHindsight> ssi: how many hours of instruction and flight are requires to be certified for instrument flight?
[15:24:29] <zeeshan|2> frequency ratio of 1 being your resonant frequency area
[15:24:37] <zeeshan|2> capt
[15:24:38] <zeeshan|2> lioke 100
[15:24:58] <ssi> CaptHindsight: refer to code of federal regulations part 61 :D
[15:25:02] <CaptHindsight> huh, thought it was much more
[15:25:13] <ssi> http://www.gleim.com/aviation/faraim/?leafNum=61.65#avTab%3DleafNum%3D61.65
[15:25:26] <zeeshan|2> http://www.spectrumairways.com/index.php/professional-flight-training/instrument-rating
[15:25:28] <zeeshan|2> even less
[15:25:34] <zeeshan|2> looks like 90 hours
[15:25:37] <ssi> (1) Fifty hours of cross country flight time as pilot in command, of which 10 hours must have been in an airplane; and
[15:25:39] <CaptHindsight> i could look it up but since you're chatty today :)
[15:25:41] <ssi> (2) Forty hours of actual or simulated instrument time in the areas of operation listed in paragraph (c) of this section, of which 15 hours must have been received from an authorized instructor who holds an instrument-airplane rating, and the instrument time includes:
[15:25:55] <ssi> it's not a straightforward number
[15:26:04] <ssi> but the short answer is 40 hours of instrument time
[15:26:17] <ssi> and most peopple don't realize that only 15 of it has to be dual
[15:26:33] <ssi> so if you have a pilot buddy he can fly safety while you fly under the hood and all that time is loggable toward the 40
[15:27:09] <CaptHindsight> sounds like something I wouldn't want to shortcut
[15:27:41] <zeeshan|2> ssi
[15:27:43] <zeeshan|2> to be honest
[15:27:46] <ssi> spoken like someone who hasn't had to pay for 40 hours of flight training :D
[15:27:51] <zeeshan|2> the cheapest / quickest way to reduce flutter
[15:27:52] <CaptHindsight> I'd probably want to pay for simulator time in dealing with poor weather and emergencies
[15:28:03] <zeeshan|2> would be throwing an accelrometer on the part
[15:28:07] <zeeshan|2> control system
[15:28:12] <zeeshan|2> and just change the frequency ratio
[15:28:15] <zeeshan|2> by not operating there
[15:28:27] <zeeshan|2> i know w/ planes they hate adding extra weight
[15:28:29] <ssi> that's how it's currently done
[15:28:44] <zeeshan|2> the only other way i can t hink thats feasiable
[15:28:48] <zeeshan|2> is redesigning the shape of it
[15:28:55] <ssi> they test fly, find the airspeed of divergent stability, then make never exceed speed 10% below that
[15:28:58] <zeeshan|2> to change the point it oscillates
[15:29:04] <CaptHindsight> I got rid of the motorcycles and put learing to fly on the shelf after the kids
[15:29:15] <zeeshan|2> yea
[15:29:19] <zeeshan|2> dude i was amazed to find this in my vfd
[15:29:21] <ssi> but for instance, my RV has a Vne of 230mph / 200kt
[15:29:21] <zeeshan|2> they have jump points
[15:29:24] <zeeshan|2> so you identify oscillation points
[15:29:31] <zeeshan|2> and the vfd jumps to different speds to avoid oscillation
[15:29:41] <ssi> with 200hp and a good prop, it can cruise 190kt in level flight
[15:29:42] <_methods> hehe yeah wife made me quit skydiving too
[15:29:43] <ssi> that's not a lot of margin
[15:29:47] <_methods> i tried to get her to go
[15:29:57] <_methods> that never worked out lol
[15:30:02] <zeeshan|2> whats vne?
[15:30:07] <ssi> never exceed speed
[15:30:12] <zeeshan|2> so if you exceed it
[15:30:12] <ssi> redline
[15:30:13] <zeeshan|2> you get flutter?
[15:30:20] <ssi> you run the risk of flutter
[15:30:56] <zeeshan|2> vibrations is a weird thing
[15:31:04] <zeeshan|2> usually you can add mass or increase stiffness
[15:31:05] <zeeshan|2> but sometimes
[15:31:12] <ssi> the way they flight test for it is a method they call the "slap the stick" method
[15:31:20] <zeeshan|2> it'll end up causing 2 natural frequencies to exist
[15:31:38] <ssi> they cruise at an airspeed, trim it for hands off, and disturb the controls briefly (apply a step impluse basically), and watch for divergent stability
[15:31:48] <zeeshan|2> haha
[15:31:51] <zeeshan|2> fuck dude
[15:31:53] <zeeshan|2> that's a bit scary
[15:32:00] <ssi> test pilots are hard mofugs
[15:32:10] <zeeshan|2> i thought tuning my servo was scary
[15:32:16] <zeeshan|2> these guys are crzy
[15:32:28] <ssi> I haven't decided if I'm gonna test fly the pitts or have someone else do it :)
[15:32:37] <ssi> I have a friend who is a good test pilot
[15:32:38] <zeeshan|2> haha
[15:32:58] <zeeshan|2> just take your airplane to a full sized find tunnel
[15:32:59] <zeeshan|2> :-)
[15:33:03] <zeeshan|2> *wind
[15:33:06] <ssi> that's not how it works!
[15:33:07] <zeeshan|2> and pay like 29308328 $
[15:33:15] <ssi> wind tunnel testing is not the same as flight testing
[15:33:20] <zeeshan|2> i know :P
[15:33:29] <ssi> I mean it doesn't accomplish the same things :)
[15:33:39] <zeeshan|2> well can't you increase the wind speed
[15:33:41] <ssi> the real-world analog to wind tunnel testing is tuft testing
[15:33:45] <zeeshan|2> to the point it flutters
[15:34:04] <ssi> oh for flutter yeah I suppose you could
[15:34:17] <zeeshan|2> i just looked up tufts
[15:34:27] <zeeshan|2> thats what people do on their cars
[15:34:31] <zeeshan|2> ricers! :)
[15:34:35] <ssi> yeah
[15:34:40] <ssi> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bIsWseMbDQU
[15:35:00] <ssi> you can see the washout doing its thing in this videoa
[15:35:04] <zeeshan|2> so you're just trying to see if the viscid layer is laminar
[15:35:05] <zeeshan|2> or turbulent?
[15:35:09] <ssi> the tip is flying before the root
[15:35:13] <ssi> yes
[15:35:18] <ssi> a stall is when the boundary layer starts to detacrh
[15:35:28] <ssi> in the beginning of that vid you can watch the boundary attach from the tip inboard
[15:35:32] <zeeshan|2> yes
[15:35:47] <zeeshan|2> at :57 its going crazy
[15:35:52] <ssi> it's desirable to have the root stall first
[15:36:06] <ssi> so you maintain aileron control while feeling the stall
[15:36:17] <zeeshan|2> WOW
[15:36:18] <zeeshan|2> dude
[15:36:24] <zeeshan|2> it doesnt take much for the plane to stall
[15:36:43] <ssi> it takes exactly one thing
[15:36:50] <ssi> exceeding the critical angle of attack of the airfoil :)
[15:36:56] <zeeshan|2> well
[15:37:00] <zeeshan|2> when he decreased thrust
[15:37:08] <zeeshan|2> he also almost stalled
[15:37:18] <ssi> it's not that he decreased thrust, it's that he increased pitch
[15:37:48] <ssi> with power in, the attitude that it stalls at will be much higher than without power
[15:37:55] <ssi> so for stall testing, you'll reduce power generally
[15:38:21] <zeeshan|2> im thinking of something else
[15:38:24] <zeeshan|2> if youre at higher altitude
[15:38:27] <zeeshan|2> air is thinner
[15:38:40] <zeeshan|2> would you stall more easily?
[15:38:44] <ssi> sorta
[15:38:48] <ssi> there's a couple factors at work there
[15:38:59] <zeeshan|2> like 20 degrees angle of attack at 4000 ft vs 15000 ft
[15:39:16] <ssi> the indicated stall speed will go up due to reduced air density, because indicated airspeed is dynamic ram pressure, q
[15:39:27] <ssi> but the critical angle of attack stays the same
[15:39:33] <zeeshan|2> ah
[15:39:54] <zeeshan|2> so its easier to fly at higher latitude
[15:39:56] <zeeshan|2> makes sense
[15:39:58] <ssi> it takes higher angle of attack to fly a given airspeed at higher altitudes
[15:40:04] <zeeshan|2> thats why cruiser liners fly at 30,000 feet
[15:40:05] <ssi> because there's less air density to react against
[15:40:06] <zeeshan|2> less gas usage
[15:40:53] <ssi> that's more a function of the operating mode of turbojets than the aerodynamics
[15:41:11] <ssi> winds aloft are much stronger up high, which can be helpful or not
[15:41:13] <zeeshan|2> as you can see im clueless about airplanes :)
[15:41:21] <ssi> airlines have extremely complex route planning software
[15:41:34] <ssi> that takes into account weight and balance, fuel requirements, weather and winds, all sorts of crap
[15:41:53] <ssi> I have friends that worked on delta's route planning software
[15:42:26] <ssi> hell, I wrote some simple stuff once upon a time and even that was harder than I expected
[15:42:46] <ssi> given a great circle route between two points in the US, and a database of airports with their fuel prices, find the most efficient route to fly with fuel stops
[15:42:50] <ssi> harder problem than it sounds like it'd be
[15:43:07] <zeeshan|2> stuff gets hard with the number of variables you wanna consider
[15:43:16] <zeeshan|2> and how precise you want to be
[15:43:21] <zeeshan|2> i have that issue for my lab thing
[15:43:26] <zeeshan|2> im doing simple tensile testing
[15:43:33] <zeeshan|2> but before i can even do it
[15:43:40] <PetefromTn_> yeah like from Atlanta, to Knoxville, to West Palm Beach, back to Knoxville, and then to Atlanta again.
[15:43:40] <zeeshan|2> how my samples are prepared, temperature, light, etc
[15:43:43] <zeeshan|2> all have an effect
[15:43:57] <ssi> PetefromTn_: that's a plenty efficient route if the folks in knoxville are paying the fuel bills :)
[15:44:06] <PetefromTn_> Oh damn
[15:44:10] <PetefromTn_> ;)
[15:44:31] <PetefromTn_> probably cost me more than ac commercial flight anyways...
[15:44:58] <CaptHindsight> ssi: is there a limit on the number of flight hours your wooden frame can have before it has to be retired from flight?
[15:44:59] <PetefromTn_> and there would not be any pretty stewardesses..
[15:45:16] <ssi> CaptHindsight: nope
[15:45:24] <ssi> CaptHindsight: some fiberglass airframes are life limited
[15:45:40] <ssi> PetefromTn_: I might can get a pretty stewardess...
[15:45:50] <PetefromTn_> doubtful
[15:45:58] <ssi> thanks ass ;)
[15:46:02] <PetefromTn_> but then the price goes up right
[15:46:05] <PetefromTn_> hehe
[15:46:06] <CaptHindsight> how about aluminum? or is that just for commercial airlines?
[15:46:18] <ssi> generally there's no life limits on airframes
[15:46:23] <PetefromTn_> ASS? MOI?
[15:46:37] <ssi> btw it's 600nm from KTYS to KPBI
[15:46:45] <CaptHindsight> I recall that flight to Hawaii some years ago that opened up like a can from metal fatigue
[15:47:02] <ssi> about 4.6 hours in a cherokee 6, about 70 gallons one way
[15:47:26] <ssi> it does fatigue, but that doesn't mean there's a life limit
[15:47:33] <ssi> it just gets inspected and repaired as necessary
[15:48:01] <ssi> PetefromTn_: you're in luck, fuel is cheap right now... around $4 on average if you pick good fuel stops
[15:48:02] <CaptHindsight> http://the.honoluluadvertiser.com/2001/Jan/18/118localnews1.html
[15:48:14] <ssi> that means that whole trip could be done for under $600 in fuel, which has to be less than flying commercial for four
[15:48:40] <ssi> that's not taking into account flying up there to get you or flying back
[15:48:49] <ssi> or teh fact that I don't have a six place airplane available at the moment :)
[15:49:58] <PetefromTn_> hehe Shit we could just drive down there to you..
[15:50:01] <CaptHindsight> that must have been an exciting last 15 minutes or so before landing
[15:50:08] <ssi> PetefromTn_: yea that'd work :)
[15:50:32] <ssi> well I'll give you dan's number, and you can call and give him shit for not putting the engine back together on that thing in only two and a half years since he took it apart
[15:50:48] <PetefromTn_> I am just kidding tho I SERIOUSLY doubt my wife would want to fly in a non commercial plane. She is a fraidy cat
[15:51:08] <zeeshan|2> wtf
[15:51:15] <zeeshan|2> at least you see youll die !
[15:51:20] <zeeshan|2> f commercial plane!
[15:51:20] <zeeshan|2> :
[15:51:21] <zeeshan|2> :D
[15:51:36] <FinboySlick> PetefromTn_: Is vanity stronger than fear? What if you offer her the role of pretty stewardess?
[15:51:39] <ssi> I don't like flying commercial because the seats are so damn uncomfortable
[15:52:04] <zeeshan|2> ssi be25a20ac
[15:52:04] <ssi> small planes aren't much better, but at least I can pick my seatmates :)
[15:52:11] <zeeshan|2> the 20 is some number for the ratio of voltage
[15:52:16] <ssi> 200v
[15:52:19] <zeeshan|2> i found some be25a40ac drives
[15:52:21] <zeeshan|2> so 400v
[15:52:23] <ssi> yeah
[15:52:26] <zeeshan|2> how do you limit the voltage??!
[15:52:30] <Deejay> gn8
[15:52:31] <ssi> on those you don't
[15:52:36] <ssi> well maybe you can
[15:52:42] <zeeshan|2> im thinking the supply voltage
[15:52:46] <zeeshan|2> determines the out voltage?
[15:52:48] <PetefromTn_> yeah sorry I doubt that will work even tho it is true
[15:52:49] <ssi> the non AC drives you give them whatever supply you want
[15:52:57] <ssi> the AC drives have a rectifier and filter in them
[15:53:07] <ssi> so 120VAC gets rectified to 190VDC
[15:53:10] <zeeshan|2> yea
[15:53:13] <zeeshan|2> 1.5 ratio almost
[15:53:14] <ssi> the 400V drives probably just take 220
[15:53:21] <zeeshan|2> tehse drives say like 35 - 240vac
[15:53:23] <ssi> if you give them 120 it'll probably behave same as a 20
[15:53:27] <zeeshan|2> yea
[15:53:38] <zeeshan|2> http://www.ebay.com/itm/2-ADVANCED-MOTION-CONTROLS-B35A40ACL-BRUSHLESS-SERVO-AMPLIFIER/291366914927?_trksid=p2047675.c100005.m1851&_trkparms=aid%3D222007%26algo%3DSIC.MBE%26ao%3D1%26asc%3D28808%26meid%3Dcd8c49e283ac48d5923ee1427d1dc2f1%26pid%3D100005%26rk%3D6%26rkt%3D6%26sd%3D371245938429&rt=nc
[15:53:41] <zeeshan|2> cheap
[15:53:52] <zeeshan|2> person made a typo
[15:53:52] <ssi> shit nice
[15:53:53] <zeeshan|2> its a b25
[15:54:20] <ssi> yea
[15:54:29] <zeeshan|2> and they have proper power connectors
[15:54:32] <zeeshan|2> not that lame ass iec connector
[15:54:34] <ssi> for it
[15:54:35] <CaptHindsight> but the aisles can be very cramped on private jets http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-amlsHEMxCtU/USd1G0nsnrI/AAAAAAAAAH8/HLmYujHRGDo/s1600/private+jet+flight+attendants.jpg
[15:54:38] <ssi> go for it even
[15:54:48] <zeeshan|2> hey no one else bid on this
[15:54:51] <zeeshan|2> im gonan snipe them!
[15:54:57] <zeeshan|2> in 17 hr 19 min
[15:54:57] <zeeshan|2> :)
[15:54:58] * ssi bids
[15:55:09] <ssi> CaptHindsight: I've ridden in the back of a lear 35 a couple times
[15:55:12] <ssi> it's quite comfortable :)
[16:01:12] <CaptHindsight> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2014_Olsberg_mid-air_collision Learjet collides with Eurofighter Typhoon/Fire breaks out on F-35A
[16:01:27] <ssi> :) everyone loves a good disaster
[16:02:14] <CaptHindsight> oops "At the time of the accident, which was the first mid-air collision in German airspace in ten years,[9] the Learjet was simulating a civil airliner that had lost radio contact with Air Traffic Control. The Eurofighter Typhoons were simulating a military response to such a scenario.
[16:03:15] <ssi> that's the fighter's fault
[16:03:30] <ssi> they intercepted, it's their duty to fly paint and maintain separation, and they botched it
[16:03:45] <ssi> shame that the lear crew had to die for the fighter's mistake, and shame he had to live with it
[16:07:20] <ssi> zeeshan|2: I'm combing through a mil spec for plywood, trynig to figure out if a grain orientation mistake I made is critical or not
[16:07:24] <Nick001-shop> Can one use a brushless servo amp to control a brushed servo?
[16:07:39] <ssi> Nick001-shop: the AMC drives, yes
[16:07:45] <ssi> I dunno if that's true generally
[16:08:08] <ssi> but a brushed servo requires no commutation, so it's simpler to drive than a brushless servo
[16:08:29] <Nick001-shop> Hi ssi - how do I accomplish this
[16:09:16] <ssi> http://www.a-m-c.com/download/manual/AMC_AnalogDrives_InstallManual.pdf
[16:09:18] <ssi> look at page 48
[16:09:36] <ssi> Set the Hall Sensor Commutation Phasing DIP switch for 60-degree phasing. Leave all the Hall Sensor inputs on the drive open. These inputs are internally pulled high to +5V, creating a "1-1-1" commutation state (see Table 4.3 above) which is a valid state in 60- degree phasing. Only use Motor A and Motor B output in this configuration.
[16:10:54] <Nick001-shop> waiting for it to dl - did you ever get your Hardinge running - back in a few
[16:11:19] <ssi> not exactly... I fixed the pneumo issue in the turret, but before i was able to get back to working on it I burned the house
[16:11:25] <ssi> now it's sitting in the hangar waiting to be set back up
[16:11:31] <ssi> as soon as zeeshan|2 comes donw to help me
[16:13:06] <CaptHindsight> http://www.ajc.com/news/news/georgia-state-student-project-closed-downtown-conn/nj3xc/ can we go back to being the home of the brave now please?
[16:13:33] <ssi> yeah that was fun
[16:13:38] <ssi> so glad I stayed home yesterday
[16:14:27] <ssi> that bridge btw is about 500 yards from where I'm sitting currently
[16:15:14] <CaptHindsight> http://media.cmgdigital.com/shared/lt/lt_cache/aresize/837x530/img/photos/2015/02/02/59/ab/020315_14th_st_device_BG1.jpg
[16:16:42] <PetefromTn_> Honestly thats pretty stupid of them to NOT realize that that thing could me misconstrued as some kind of a bomb....
[16:16:57] <ssi> agreed
[16:18:05] <CaptHindsight> we would have taped one of those to everything in site in 7th grade if got us out of class
[16:18:14] <PetefromTn_> hehe
[16:18:27] <PetefromTn_> this was a college project right?
[16:20:08] <PetefromTn_> just missed a call from that performance shop I bought the chrome vacuum gauge from on ebay
[16:20:18] <PetefromTn_> apparently they screwed up somehow
[16:20:30] <PetefromTn_> and they just paypal'd me a full refund
[16:20:42] <PetefromTn_> told me to keep the Holley check valves
[16:21:10] <PetefromTn_> but paypal put a hold on the money for some unknown reason...
[16:21:14] <PetefromTn_> shitheads...
[16:24:44] <Jymmm> If ^2 is the inverse of SQRT(), what is the inverse of ^3 ?
[16:25:21] <ssi> cube root
[16:25:45] <Jymmm> I dont see that on my calculator =)
[16:25:53] <ssi> get a better calculator!
[16:26:01] <Jymmm> HP20s
[16:26:03] <ssi> or raise it to the power of 1/3
[16:26:38] <CaptHindsight> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Al7PllobwR4 How To Calculate Cube Roots
[16:28:10] <CaptHindsight> sorry wrong one http://www.calculatorsoup.com/calculators/algebra/cuberoots.php
[16:32:50] <PetefromTn_> so nobody needs a Holley check valve then LOL?
[16:32:58] <ssi> probably not!
[16:34:49] <PetefromTn_> http://i.imgur.com/z2Mg6LH.jpg Even if they are REALLY REALLY NICE and brand new?
[16:36:00] <Jymmm> ssi: PetefromTn_ TY
[16:36:23] <PetefromTn_> ?
[16:36:35] <Jymmm> err CaptHindsight, not PetefromTn_
[16:36:44] <Jymmm> PetefromTn_: (nothing persona =)
[16:36:58] <PetefromTn_> non persona? I'm insulted man...
[16:37:44] <Jymmm> PetefromTn_: I dobt it'll be the first time, nor the last time =)
[16:37:53] <PetefromTn_> probably
[16:38:02] <PetefromTn_> but thanks for your concern!
[16:38:56] <Jymmm> sucks that my calculator app has cube root, but not my HP20s
[16:39:19] <ssi> just remember that the inverse of 2 is 1/2, and the inverse of 3 is 1/3
[16:39:21] <PetefromTn_> aren't you on a PC?
[16:39:36] <ssi> square root is the same as ^(1/2), and cube root is the same as ^(1/3)
[16:39:52] <ssi> fifth root is the same as ^(1/5)
[16:40:21] <PetefromTn_> it's more than your little window to the world you know.. ancient ones did these types of calculations pretty well :P
[16:41:49] <Jymmm> If you care, it's "RealCalc" on the playstore (free/paid)
[16:41:51] <CaptHindsight> PetefromTn_: this was the last vehicle with a Holley I had http://imagebin.ca/v/1qQRAYrlLQyA
[16:42:30] <PetefromTn_> nice pickemuptruck
[16:43:33] <CaptHindsight> checkout the plate # http://imagebin.ca/v/1qQRnxgySu1H
[16:44:18] <PetefromTn_> OOh... nice but I am not a chevy guy reallly. But of course you knew that hehe
[16:44:54] <Jymmm> CaptHindsight: Yeah, PetefromTn_ is a Dodge guy
[16:44:56] <PetefromTn_> is that really yours or just one like it..
[16:45:04] <CaptHindsight> I was mostly GM for restorations, I did a few Mustangs as well
[16:45:06] <PetefromTn_> I had a dodge once...
[16:45:14] <PetefromTn_> once....
[16:45:16] <CaptHindsight> that was mine
[16:45:17] <Jymmm> lol
[16:46:03] <CaptHindsight> it would get ~3mpg when the floats would stick
[16:46:13] <PetefromTn_> hehe damn sticky floats
[16:46:27] <CaptHindsight> 8-9mpg when they weren't
[16:46:44] <PetefromTn_> very efficient
[16:46:54] <PetefromTn_> when your tires are boiling off..
[16:47:02] <CaptHindsight> and the gas tank was directly behind the seat where you could keep an eye on it :)
[16:48:00] <PetefromTn_> Like I said I am not really a pickup kind of guy but I did once have a close friend who had a really cool truck at least for 1980's
[16:48:15] <PetefromTn_> he had a lowered Mazda single cab pickup
[16:48:21] <PetefromTn_> that had a removable roof
[16:48:33] <ssi> did he have the matching mullet and jean jacket?
[16:48:34] <PetefromTn_> and yeah while it sounds like a ricer kinda POS
[16:48:40] <zeeshan|2> ssi
[16:48:41] <zeeshan|2> wtf
[16:48:44] <zeeshan|2> dont tell people about amc drives
[16:48:47] <zeeshan|2> when im trying to bid on them!
[16:48:48] <ssi> ha
[16:48:50] <PetefromTn_> this thing was one of the most fun cars to ride in for some unknown reason
[16:48:59] <CaptHindsight> I mostly had 67-73 Firebirds and Transams back then
[16:49:02] <zeeshan|2> also grain orientation w/ wood
[16:49:03] <zeeshan|2> is a big deal :/
[16:49:08] <ssi> yeah I know
[16:49:10] <ssi> but it's plywood
[16:49:10] <ssi> heh
[16:49:20] <zeeshan|2> not so much a big deal then i'd think.
[16:49:24] <zeeshan|2> cause each layer changes oirentation
[16:49:25] <zeeshan|2> anyway
[16:49:26] <ssi> well, that's what I'm trying to figure out
[16:49:28] <PetefromTn_> had a wicked stereo
[16:49:36] <zeeshan|2> well find that answer too
[16:49:36] <ssi> cause the face layers are mahogany but the center plies are poplar
[16:49:40] <zeeshan|2> but i think logically safety wise
[16:49:42] <zeeshan|2> it makes sense
[16:49:47] <PetefromTn_> and he had a pair of stand up jetski's that were painted to match the truck
[16:49:50] <ssi> and I was supposed to orient the face grain with the spar, but I missed it :/
[16:50:03] <ssi> I'm thinking I might just laminate some 1/32" birch ply on top in the proper orientation and be done with it
[16:50:32] <PetefromTn_> that had a neat bed mount
[16:50:47] <PetefromTn_> we used to go riding on the intercoastal all the time
[16:51:27] <zeeshan|2> can someone explain to me
[16:51:31] <zeeshan|2> why i can boot from a usb disk in legacy mode
[16:51:35] <zeeshan|2> but on a bios with uefi only
[16:51:36] <zeeshan|2> it wont let me
[16:51:38] <zeeshan|2> i dont know the diff
[16:56:49] <CaptHindsight> http://www.itworld.com/article/2879535/hundreds-apply-for-faa-drone-licenses.html
[17:52:42] <CaptHindsight> zeeshan|2: fuctory BIOS/EFI is why, they are all complete kludges of BIOS components slapped together in the hope it works
[18:10:41] <Tom_itx> how can i test a mesa pwm output without attaching it to the spindle functions?
[18:11:52] <PCW> LED?
[18:12:43] <PCW> Oh in HAL, setp :-)
[18:12:48] <Tom_itx> no, how to get the pwm to output.. i will have a LA attached to it
[18:13:16] <Tom_itx> how do i vary it though?
[18:13:33] <Tom_itx> i have the setp commands set up i think
[18:13:37] <PCW> connect to siggen?
[18:14:03] <Tom_itx> i could hook it to the spindle stuff but i don't have the spindle scale yet
[18:14:12] <Tom_itx> i gotta figure that out next
[18:14:36] <zeeshan|2> looks like tom is having fun
[18:14:36] <zeeshan|2> man
[18:14:42] <zeeshan|2> you guys should see the setup i have going
[18:14:47] <PCW> well set the frequency , the scale, the enable and then set the value
[18:14:55] <zeeshan|2> i have 3 laptops , 3 work stations , 1 server
[18:14:56] <zeeshan|2> 1 nas
[18:14:59] <Tom_itx> what's the range?
[18:15:04] <zeeshan|2> multiple monitors !
[18:15:14] <Tom_itx> 65565?
[18:15:15] <zeeshan|2> i literally have it in a circle and im chain installing windows 7 on em
[18:15:27] <Tom_itx> 255?
[18:15:44] <PCW> do you mean resolution?
[18:15:49] <Tom_itx> yeah
[18:16:06] <PCW> depends on frequency
[18:16:15] <Tom_itx> i need 25khz
[18:16:24] <PCW> ok so 12 bits
[18:16:28] <Tom_itx> i set the freq to that in the setp
[18:17:24] <PCW> default scale is 1.0 so if not changed 0.50 = 50% duty cycle
[18:17:44] <Tom_itx> does the duty or freq change with pwmgen?
[18:18:00] <PCW> ?
[18:18:12] <Tom_itx> nm i think you just answered that
[18:18:26] <zeeshan|2> PCW
[18:18:52] <zeeshan|2> did you see my earlier question?
[18:18:57] <zeeshan|2> about 5v inputs and 24v inputs
[18:18:57] <PCW> no
[18:19:16] <zeeshan|2> if im using one field i/o as 5v
[18:19:23] <zeeshan|2> where does the ground wire from the 5v supply go?
[18:19:29] <zeeshan|2> and all the other fields are 24v
[18:19:44] <PCW> 5V input?
[18:19:51] <zeeshan|2> yes 5v inputs sorry
[18:19:55] <zeeshan|2> not outputs.
[18:21:05] <zeeshan|2> so basically i have both 24v inputs and 5v inputs
[18:21:15] <PCW> hmm that wont actuate a 24V field input
[18:21:29] <PCW> what is that signal from?
[18:21:36] <zeeshan|2> fault signal from servo drives
[18:21:48] <zeeshan|2> to tell linuxcnc "fault @ servo drive"
[18:21:52] <zeeshan|2> before the f-error kicks in
[18:22:13] <zeeshan|2> if its not easy to do, ill just rely on ferror
[18:23:36] <andypugh> I am liking InventorHSM as a CAM system. Though at $10000 it ought to be good (I am playing with the 30 day trial)
[18:23:41] <andypugh> https://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo/jRnGlIXp0p78nr_78HcGdtMTjNZETYmyPJy0liipFm0?feat=directlink
[18:23:42] <PCW> I would probably not common the grounds so you either need to connect it to a level translator to +24 ( an OPTO would be ideal )
[18:23:44] <PCW> or perhaps connect to a spare encoder input
[18:24:10] <zeeshan|2> okay f-error it is :)
[18:24:30] <zeeshan|2> andypugh: nice|!
[18:24:35] <PCW> A encoder input will work
[18:24:44] <zeeshan|2> PCW: they'll all be used :)
[18:24:46] <zeeshan|2> eventually
[18:24:50] <zeeshan|2> 5 axis and spindle
[18:25:19] <andypugh> The feature to limit the 5-axis algorithms to 4-axis is missing, so I am doing 4 setups at 90 degrees
[18:26:13] <PCW> Thats nice though its seems like a lot of brass made into chips
[18:26:42] <andypugh> Yes, but I couldn’t find a flat slab for the job. I will keep the chips for casting.
[18:27:19] <PCW> Ahh good
[18:27:37] <andypugh> It’s going to be some of these: http://www.geutskens.eu/neracar/images/PPL/8-Accessories/804-Headlamp%20Electric/23-805-Bracket,%20Off%20side-R-gec.jpg
[18:28:32] <andypugh> I want to get into casting, but I want this job done first, so despite the fact that it is an ideal opportunity, I an machining from solid.
[18:28:35] <zeeshan|2> andypugh: free versions has 4 axis?
[18:29:04] <andypugh> No, the free version (HSM Express) only has 2D and 2.5D.
[18:29:27] <zeeshan|2> okay you're running the real deal
[18:29:27] <zeeshan|2> :)
[18:29:33] * zeeshan|2 got confused for a sec
[18:29:38] <andypugh> 3+2 is in the full version, and 5-axis in the Pro version.
[18:29:42] <PCW> Is this for your Neracar?
[18:29:45] <andypugh> Yes
[18:29:59] <zeeshan|2> whats the diameter of the brass for scale
[18:30:00] <PCW> broken?
[18:30:14] <micges> PCW: does 7i77 reports inputs 16-19 in mode 3?
[18:30:27] <PCW> Yes
[18:30:30] <andypugh> That’s 2” brass bar
[18:30:38] <zeeshan|2> rich guy
[18:30:38] <andypugh> I have been making headlights: https://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo/JqMiezKZO-Cwmt1JMMShgdMTjNZETYmyPJy0liipFm0?feat=directlink
[18:30:42] <zeeshan|2> that isnt cheap!
[18:31:12] <zeeshan|2> 100 bux for 1 foot
[18:31:20] <micges> PCW: so maybe they can be used to use 5v inputs while 24v field ?
[18:32:13] <PCW> unfortunately not, the bit input use the field voltage set threshold
[18:32:42] <micges> ah ok
[18:32:44] <PCW> though thats something that probably could be fixed
[18:33:07] <andypugh> The guy on eBay seemed to get his price wrong :-) The picture says 150mm but the auction says 300mm and 300mm turned up: http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/301250810916
[18:33:16] <PCW> (also the ability to set EEPROM thresholds on some pins)
[18:33:31] <micges> yeah that would be neat
[18:34:23] <PCW> the analog data is there just needs some code munging
[18:34:44] <PCW> found a bug in mesaflash I think
[18:35:28] <micges> go on
[18:36:01] <PCW> I cant get the WPO option to work
[18:36:36] <PCW> (segv's with what I think is reasonable syntax)
[18:36:52] <micges> what board and command line?
[18:38:02] <PCW> 7I76E
[18:38:04] <PCW> lets see
[18:38:05] <PCW> mesaflash --device 7i76e --addr --wpo 0x3B00 0x00009000
[18:38:42] <micges> should work, let me test
[18:39:02] <furrywolf> that's the board you're sendine me? thanks! :P
[18:39:12] <furrywolf> sending
[18:39:41] <micges> PCW: mf from package or git?
[18:39:54] <PCW> git
[18:41:36] <micges> same here
[18:41:51] <PCW> seems like something else didn't work that I expected
[18:42:28] <PCW> furrywolf: I did look for the proto but no luck
[18:42:41] <PCW> not sure where it went
[18:43:00] <furrywolf> oh well. if I'm not broke after taxes and a trip to the dentist, I'll order one...
[18:44:31] * furrywolf spends most of the time broke
[18:47:09] <furrywolf> current, immediate issue is what to do about the ants! they're early this year! usually they don't show up for a couple more months, but already there's a fucking million of them on the floor... since this morning. there were zero this morning. I hate ants.
[18:47:15] <micges> PCW: mesaflash --device 7i76e --addr --wpo 0x3B00=0x00009000
[18:47:39] <micges> syntax like set ip
[18:48:01] <PCW> ahh
[18:48:08] <micges> I'll make both syntax possible
[18:49:06] <PCW> I dont think I could get the sserial stuff to list either (maybe its not in yet though)
[18:49:27] <micges> I used = becouse it's possible to have one argument for --option
[18:49:33] <micges> in library I used
[18:50:12] <PCW> oh ok not a big deal cant remember if the --help text shows this
[18:50:30] <micges> yes it's there
[18:50:46] <PCW> well maybe I cant read :-)
[18:51:01] <micges> heh
[18:52:03] <micges> --sserial should show shortly what remotes it found
[18:52:27] <micges> all latest remote discovery code is there
[18:52:40] <micges> try git pull --rebase
[18:53:04] <PCW> I just downloaded the zip and compiled
[18:53:17] <Tom_itx> 7i90 pwmgen is loaded but when i try to setp i get a not found error
[18:54:23] <micges> Tom_itx: add 'show all' before setp to see if there is a typo
[18:54:24] <Tom_itx> oh nice... i'll have to grab that
[18:56:38] <Tom_itx> what does --rebase do?
[18:58:56] <PCW> mesaflash --device 7i76e --addr --sserial
[18:58:57] <PCW> just hangs
[18:59:28] <zeeshan|2> Tom_itx: will the card work for u?
[18:59:34] <XXCoder> 52 card
[19:00:01] <atom1> zeeshan|2, i'm not sure yet but probably
[19:00:17] <zeeshan|2> i hope it works!
[19:00:18] <atom1> i may not get reverse without some fussing with it
[19:00:27] <zeeshan|2> well its got 2 relays
[19:00:31] <zeeshan|2> thats all you should need for reverse
[19:00:33] <atom1> yeah
[19:00:43] <zeeshan|2> do you want the circuit diagram?
[19:00:49] <zeeshan|2> i think theres one on the website too
[19:00:52] <atom1> i'll figure out how they're configured once i get pwm going
[19:00:59] <atom1> i may have it already
[19:01:05] <atom1> i found the manual for the driver
[19:01:13] <atom1> it's on my website
[19:01:55] <atom1> http://tom-itx.no-ip.biz:81/~webpage/cnc/PDF/
[19:02:04] <atom1> i think mine's the KBIC
[19:12:32] <furrywolf> meh. I'm too exhausted to do anything useful.
[19:12:43] <zeeshan|2> furrywolf:
[19:12:49] <zeeshan|2> what made you exhaustedf
[19:13:11] * XXCoder throws ball
[19:13:25] <XXCoder> lot work at work eh?
[19:14:35] <micges> Tom_itx: it makes clean git history in lcnc so I use it in my repos too
[19:15:20] <furrywolf> zeeshan: working too hard, with bad weather screwing up routes and making me have to do other people's work too.
[19:15:25] <micges> PCW: it works here, can you test 192.168.x.x address?
[19:15:31] <XXCoder> oh thats fun
[19:16:23] <Tom_itx> PCW you said i can set the frequency for each pwm instance right?
[19:20:54] <micges> PCW: does it print anything before hang?
[19:34:12] <PCW> no
[19:34:55] <micges> what remotes do you have on 7i76e?
[19:36:39] <PCW> normal 7I76 IO but is it possible you have hardwired address in mesaflash (that is a hm2 address not from the IDROM)
[19:37:46] <PCW> it looks like it is stuck polling (Ethernet packet LEDs running at high speed when hung)
[19:39:25] <PCW> I ask about addresses because this has the encoder DPLL sampling option which required moving a large chunk of addresses around (so sserial is not in the same place it was before)
[19:39:37] <micges> ah yes
[19:39:45] <micges> you're right
[19:40:40] <PCW> this is also a bit of a pain for us as we have a bunch of test programs that use hardwired addresses (we should have known better...)
[19:41:32] <PCW> everything past the encoder base address has been moved
[19:43:11] <micges> it's big fix, I can't do it right now, I'm fighting with limited jerk, you can fix sserial addresses in hostmot2_def.h
[19:43:13] <atom1> how do i update the master source for it?
[19:43:38] <PCW> It good to fix this since I have about run out of static address space so new firmware will start having addresses allocated at compile time instead of from constants
[19:43:40] <atom1> git pull says up to date
[19:44:08] <PCW> just dont fetch new source from mesa for a while :-)
[19:44:42] <micges> atom1: so there was nothing new
[19:44:48] <atom1> ok
[19:44:59] <atom1> nothing to test?
[19:45:02] <PCW> or use the pre-encoder-dpll versions of hostmot2.vhd and IDROMConst.vhd
[19:45:47] <micges> PCW: ok I'll fix all supported modules addressing then
[19:46:19] <PCW> the new FPGA firmware works fine with linuxcnc since it only uses the IDROM addresses
[19:47:05] <PCW> the regmap file _does say_ not to depend on the addresses
[19:47:54] <micges> so I can't read too :)
[19:48:03] <PCW> :-)
[19:49:51] <PCW> mesaflash is probably waiting for the sserial command register to clear (which will never happen since the address is wrong)
[19:50:45] <PCW> ok mystery solved and its....
[19:50:46] <micges> did you fix 6 defines in hostmot2_def.h ?
[19:50:47] <PCW> Dinner time!
[19:51:06] <micges> see ya
[19:51:15] <PCW> I didnt try
[19:51:25] <PCW> bbl
[19:55:31] <XXCoder> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oF0pMILT7_Y
[19:55:34] <XXCoder> pretty cool
[20:03:55] <new2cnc> sorry to interrupt. I am having trouble in running my linuxcnc. I tried open on my desktop and when I try to run in terminal it says linuxcnc: command not found. I have been stuck with this for 2 days now, anyone keen on giving me some adivce please
[20:04:52] <micges> new2cnc: do you have linuxcnc package installed?
[20:06:50] <new2cnc> yes
[20:09:30] <new2cnc> yes but it wasn't install by me. is there a way to check?
[20:09:36] <micges> what 'dpkg -s linuxcnc' says?
[20:10:41] <micges> check first two lines of output
[20:10:54] <new2cnc> >< not installed
[20:12:04] <LeelooMinai> new2cnc: Check also if you have linux installed:)
[20:12:50] <new2cnc> yes on that one. the system is running on a ubuntu 14.04
[20:24:01] <new2cnc> wait I just realise the linuxcnc that I have in my system run through a script.
[20:27:01] <skunkworks> how did you install linuxcnc?
[20:32:07] <new2cnc> I have no idea. one of my mate installed it and he gave up on getting it work. So out of interest I took it up
[20:35:17] <new2cnc> now I can run linuxcnc but right after I select a configuration. it give an error.
[20:35:18] <new2cnc> https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B4gTSkZ4hgzzNHMycmVCNGR1ems/view?usp=sharing
[20:39:18] <flyback> seriously
[20:39:24] <flyback> you people need to get lathe more often
[20:39:38] * flyback ducks
[20:40:35] <Tom_itx> jason?
[20:41:18] <flyback> hey
[20:41:23] <flyback> how you been?
[20:41:36] <Tom_itx> working on my mill a bit
[20:41:40] <flyback> cool
[20:41:43] <malcom2073_> flyback: Are you also "beanbag"?
[20:41:48] <flyback> yep
[20:41:58] <malcom2073_> Ok, figured
[20:42:19] <flyback> I thought I would share the joke I made this morning heh
[20:42:58] <malcom2073_> I'd never heard it, but I don't hang out around machinests much :)
[20:43:51] <flyback> about to order a hakko fx-888
[20:44:11] <flyback> between xmas money and $200 bonus I got from boss for pulling a all nighter to save a raid and 3 frozen vm's
[20:44:52] <flyback> I love my aoyue 968 classic 35w and sparkfun/attent 937b 50w irons but they fail on rohs ground planes
[20:45:02] <flyback> like camp on a joint for 45 mins no melt, fail
[20:45:45] <mozmck> is there a sample config for a 7i80/7i92 around? or should I just modify a different one?
[20:45:48] <flyback> plus my vision has deteriated since I turned 40 and I got gout in some joints so I need a no shit iron
[20:46:34] <flyback> heh Tom_itx I still have 1-2 mediatek flash programmers
[20:46:39] <flyback> using flashrom-mediatek
[20:46:55] <flyback> but now someone ported serprog to stm32 so I will eventually use that
[20:48:57] <flyback> glad to see you still around
[20:48:57] <flyback> heh
[20:49:32] <Tom_itx> mine's in a box somewhere
[20:50:36] <Tom_itx> how can i temporarily disable my home switches?
[20:50:42] <Tom_itx> <- forgot
[20:54:16] <Tom_itx> NO_FORCE_HOMING = 1
[20:56:01] <Tom_itx> mmm that didn't seem to work
[20:57:54] <micges> mozmck: besides loadrt line there is nothing special about those configs
[20:58:11] <micges> mozmck: loadrt hm2_eth board_ip="" debug=0 config=""
[21:08:47] <skunksleep> I thought I had a 7i90 config handy but I don't.
[21:09:35] <skunksleep> Tom_itx: some of the homing velocities need to be 0
[21:10:16] <Tom_itx> i managed to get past that
[21:10:48] <Tom_itx> i'm trying to bench test the control
[21:13:28] <mozmck> micges: thanks
[21:13:29] <atom1> odd, if i setp hm2_[HOSTMOT2](BOARD).0.pwmgen.pwm_frequency 25000 i get 4.16450khz output
[21:13:39] <atom1> but if i setp hm2_[HOSTMOT2](BOARD).0.pwmgen.pwm_frequency 250000 i get 250Khz
[21:13:59] <atom1> and i need 25khz
[21:14:41] <Tom_itx> i suppose i could try stepgen instead of pwmgen
[21:14:46] <micges> iirc you can't get more than 192kHz
[21:14:54] <Tom_itx> i want less
[21:15:01] <Tom_itx> i want 25khz
[21:15:21] <micges> how did you check output frequency?
[21:15:23] <Tom_itx> the LA says i get 250Khz with the 2nd line ^^
[21:15:34] <Tom_itx> logic analizer
[21:16:03] <Tom_itx> it's not a steady pulse though, it's bursts
[21:16:18] <micges> pastebin output from 'show all hm2' command
[21:18:04] <atom1> how do you copy that from hal configuration?
[21:19:43] <micges> open terminal, goto source/bin and run 'halcmd show all hm2'
[21:19:44] <atom1> one sec
[21:19:51] <atom1> yeah i figured that out
[21:21:44] <atom1> http://paste.debian.net/143862/
[21:22:52] <atom1> pwm stuff is around 624
[21:25:56] <atom1> and 336
[21:28:23] <Tom_itx> i don't have the scale etc set yet
[21:29:55] <micges> I don't see anything wrong
[21:30:08] <micges> set scale to 1.0 and value to 0.5 and check again
[21:31:37] <PetefromTn_andro> Evening folks
[21:31:52] <Tom_itx> http://tom-itx.no-ip.biz:81/~webpage/cnc/temp/logic.jpg
[21:31:57] <Tom_itx> that's what it looks like
[21:33:07] <Tom_itx> http://tom-itx.no-ip.biz:81/~webpage/cnc/temp/logic1.jpg
[21:34:03] <micges> it's with scale 1 and value 0.5?
[21:34:29] <atom1> no
[21:34:32] <atom1> i'm working on that
[21:34:35] <micges> ok
[21:34:41] <atom1> that's with the pastebin settings
[21:36:28] <micges> you have enable=0 and value = 0 there
[21:36:51] <atom1> i may have done that after i stopped the spindle
[21:37:36] <atom1> aarg, it won't let me change value... it's connected to a signal
[21:39:39] <Tom_itx> that gives me 25khz
[21:40:58] <Tom_itx> http://tom-itx.no-ip.biz:81/~webpage/cnc/temp/logic2.jpg
[21:43:00] <Tom_itx> so how do i go about setting the scale for the spindle?
[21:43:10] <Tom_itx> max 5k rpm
[21:43:25] <Tom_itx> encoder is 500 quad cpr with index
[21:43:53] <Tom_itx> pwm -> 0-10v
[21:44:54] <micges> you want to command pwm in rpm?
[21:45:19] <atom1> i think so
[21:45:50] <micges> set scale to 5000
[21:46:13] <micges> hold on
[21:46:46] <micges> yeah scale=5000 should work
[21:46:56] <atom1> i don't have the encoder feedback hooked up just yet
[21:46:57] <micges> duty cycle = value / scale
[21:47:23] <micges> you can see on vfd for now
[21:47:25] <atom1> setp hm2_[HOSTMOT2](BOARD).0.pwmgen.00.scale 5000
[21:47:53] <micges> or simple multimeter
[21:48:07] <atom1> meter will have to do... it's a sherline control with a pot
[21:48:25] <atom1> and i don't have the dac hooked up just yet, i was testing the pwm first
[21:48:32] <micges> ah ok
[21:48:42] <furrywolf> meh. now, instead of being broke, I'm going to be even broker. I need more/new work.
[21:49:33] <XXCoder> fun.
[21:50:28] <furrywolf> got a notice today that one of my customers lost a contract with one of their customers.... and that I'm losing $2500 a year in work.
[21:50:31] <atom1> once i get pwm going, i need a pulse signal every time the spindle switches direction. i was planning to use a oneshot hooked to motion.spindle.on
[21:50:45] <XXCoder> ouch
[21:50:51] <furrywolf> I don't have a spare $2500 a year. I don't have a spare $250 a year!
[21:52:00] <atom1> the pulse resets the drive so it goes into a ramp mode to prevent overloads
[21:52:39] <atom1> then i can hopefully use the relays to reverse direction
[21:53:26] <micges> motion.spindle-forward and motion.spindle-reverse should be handy
[21:53:39] <atom1> yeah but it needs to sense both
[21:53:48] <atom1> and 'on' will trigger on either case
[21:54:23] <atom1> and if it gets a false 'on' it won't matter because it was starting up anyway
[21:54:39] <atom1> even if it doesn't change direction
[21:54:45] <atom1> this is to protect the drive
[21:55:11] <Tom_itx> http://tom-itx.no-ip.biz:81/~webpage/cnc/PDF/KBIC_Data_Sheet.pdf
[21:57:19] * furrywolf curls up and sighs
[21:57:35] <XXCoder> furrywolf: good luck though
[21:57:44] <XXCoder> hope theres new jobs or something
[21:59:12] <flyback> heh furrywolf ltns
[21:59:16] <flyback> did you ever get this nife working
[22:00:12] <furrywolf> no
[22:00:14] <furrywolf> too much $$$.
[22:00:20] <flyback> :(
[22:00:46] <flyback> well hopefull you find a cheap cache of used lead acids eventually then
[22:00:57] <XXCoder> mining light thing?
[22:01:20] <furrywolf> xxcoder: I have 40 300Ah nife cells
[22:01:21] <flyback> I mean like retired forklift batteries that couldn't live a fridge anymore but can still run lights for 2 4 hrs etc
[22:01:29] <flyback> not cheap used lead acid disposable shit
[22:01:50] <XXCoder> 400 Ah? dang
[22:01:53] <XXCoder> er 300
[22:01:56] <XXCoder> * 40 even
[22:02:05] <flyback> XXCoder, nife charge retension is horse shit
[22:02:10] <flyback> but almost unlimited cycles
[22:02:14] <XXCoder> you can easily have off grid power and live on it
[22:02:17] <flyback> which is fine for wind, solar etc
[22:02:29] <flyback> yeah but she can't afford the chemicals to rebuild the cells
[22:02:31] <flyback> :(
[22:02:33] <flyback> wish I could help
[22:02:55] <XXCoder> if I had money I'd send furry job to build my cnc router
[22:02:59] <XXCoder> small one
[22:03:14] <furrywolf> no, nife has _excellent_ charge retention. what it sucks at is efficiency and water usage.
[22:03:26] <flyback> water is not an issue really :)
[22:03:52] <XXCoder> unless ya in calfornia fly. comlate change is relaly killing that state.
[22:03:56] <furrywolf> distilled water runs $1.50/gallon, the cells hold 60 gallons, and they need topping up constantly.
[22:04:02] <flyback> na rain water capture or something
[22:04:10] <flyback> actually furrywolf just make a distiller
[22:04:16] <furrywolf> I got a used RO+DI system to produce the water.
[22:04:18] <XXCoder> hmm conve er yeah like fly says
[22:04:23] <flyback> aren't you in a hot area all the time
[22:04:29] <furrywolf> no
[22:04:35] <flyback> oh I thought it was a sun bake
[22:04:43] <furrywolf> an abnormally hot summer day here is 70-75F.
[22:05:58] <flyback> mabye it's worth trying one of those lead rejuivation chemicals even if they shame off some capacity but work again, I dunno anymore
[22:06:02] <flyback> I wish I could help more
[22:06:08] <flyback> shame/shave
[22:06:55] <XXCoder> http://www.cnn.com/2014/04/24/tech/innovation/machine-makes-drinking-water-from-air/
[22:07:07] <flyback> yeah that's easy sorta nature does it
[22:07:14] <flyback> did you see the guy 3d printing ceramic
[22:07:18] <Tom_itx> pretty sure i need to invert the signal too
[22:07:20] <flyback> for evaporative cooling
[22:07:27] <flyback> that's been used for centuries
[22:07:31] <XXCoder> flyback: yeah theres another that uses no power and stuff
[22:07:38] <XXCoder> looks like mesh
[22:07:38] <flyback> clay pots allowed to evaporate water
[22:07:42] <XXCoder> cant find it though
[22:07:56] <flyback> I noticed this when I was cleaning a terra cotter clay dish I use as a fire shield for heaters, etc
[22:07:58] <furrywolf> I have no shortage of water. I was simply listing the main drawbacks of nife batteries.
[22:08:04] <flyback> I had just washed it off in hot water
[22:08:11] <flyback> and a few mins later it was cold
[22:08:13] <XXCoder> furrywolf: yeah but then free distilled water
[22:08:30] <flyback> yeah I could live with the water thing
[22:09:02] <furrywolf> I already built a RO+DI system to produce water.
[22:09:05] <XXCoder> bicycle and drink after heh http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/article-2839124/The-bottle-makes-water-appear-AIR-Gadget-uses-solar-energy-collect-moisture-flask-ride-bike.html
[22:09:06] <flyback> cool
[22:09:08] <XXCoder> oh missed that
[22:09:17] <XXCoder> whats full name?
[22:09:20] <flyback> those sewage water purifiers look good too
[22:09:30] <flyback> for cities
[22:09:47] <XXCoder> wow new to me... make power AND water http://www.treehugger.com/wind-technology/wind-turbine-makes-clean-water-desert.html
[22:09:52] <flyback> and you can have a few hundred feet of pipe of uv leds or gamma emitters
[22:09:58] <flyback> as a final sterializers
[22:10:03] <atom1> micges, yeah the signal needs inverted... the higher the rpm, the lower the high time on each pulse
[22:10:05] <flyback> if people get worried about a breech
[22:10:42] <flyback> or just chlorine
[22:10:54] <XXCoder> good one http://21stcenturywire.com/2013/08/16/peru-university-invents-billboard-that-makes-100-litres-of-drinking-water-per-day-out-of-thin-air/
[22:11:01] <XXCoder> sorry on so many links lol
[22:11:07] <flyback> yeah probably works like plants
[22:11:13] <flyback> that condense water
[22:11:28] <micges> atom1: try scale = -5000
[22:11:40] <flyback> OH CHRIST
[22:11:48] <flyback> I'M not reading that url anymore
[22:11:48] <atom1> heh forgot about that :)
[22:11:49] <flyback> Not only will it save lives, ground water and improve the quality of health for billions – it could stop wars and land grabs in places like the Middle East.
[22:11:49] <flyback> But there are those in places of money and power who will fight tooth and nail to make sure that this technology is never adopted on a wide scale, unless of course they own it and are charging for each “unit” of the water it produces.
[22:11:59] <flyback> conspiracy shitheads
[22:12:14] <XXCoder> flyback: nestile is one of most evil companies out there
[22:12:28] <XXCoder> not literally evil but yeah
[22:13:14] <furrywolf> all serious attempts at atmospheric water gathering have turned out to be not as useful as claimed.
[22:13:19] <XXCoder> http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/article-2630864/The-fence-make-water-air-Researchers-reveal-harvest-morning-fog-drinking-farming.html
[22:13:23] <atom1> micges, nope that didn't get it this time
[22:13:31] <furrywolf> the areas that could use it most are the same areas that tend to have dry air that's the most difficult to get water out of.
[22:13:32] <XXCoder> not the mesh variant I was talking about but interesting nevertheless
[22:13:51] <atom1> i can invert the io pin i think
[22:13:57] <micges> yes you can
[22:14:02] <furrywolf> active solutions produce much more water, but take power. passive solutions require fog and dew, precluding their use in dry areas.
[22:14:09] <flyback> hmm furrywolf I do like that company that came out with absorbtion chiller a/c units for hot countries and states
[22:14:18] <flyback> cause their highest power demands are when it's hottest out
[22:14:22] <flyback> so it works perfect
[22:14:28] <furrywolf> biological fouling and other maintenance is an issue with all systems
[22:14:39] <XXCoder> FINALLY!!
[22:14:41] <XXCoder> http://www.smithsonianmag.com/innovation/this-tower-pulls-drinking-water-out-of-thin-air-180950399/?no-ist
[22:14:47] <XXCoder> damn it was hard to find
[22:14:59] <flyback> I already knew what it was dude
[22:15:01] <XXCoder> 25 gallon a day
[22:15:06] <flyback> it's just condensing
[22:15:10] <XXCoder> I know
[22:15:36] <flyback> furrywolf, you could use solar boiling or a chorinte drip
[22:15:38] <atom1> i tried it with the pwmgen.00.invert_output but got an error
[22:15:40] <furrywolf> this has been around for hundreds of years. it's just a new shape. it didn't work before, either.
[22:15:44] <flyback> not the greatest tasting but works
[22:15:48] <atom1> i think i need to do it on the IO pin
[22:16:54] <flyback> "[In Ethiopia], public infrastructures do not exist and building [something like] a well is not easy," Vittori says of the country. "To find water, you need to drill in the ground very deep, often as much as 1,600 feet. So it's technically difficult and expensive. Moreover, pumps need electricity to run as well as access to spare parts in case the pump breaks down."
[22:16:59] <flyback> solar pump is easy and cheap
[22:17:11] <XXCoder> still 1,600 feet
[22:17:12] <flyback> and use a bldc or induction shaft type pump
[22:17:15] <flyback> not many parts
[22:17:53] <flyback> but you got islamic nutballs over in african states trashing all technology
[22:18:10] <XXCoder> yeah. this mesh is basically not tech
[22:18:12] <flyback> and warlords
[22:18:42] <furrywolf_> stupid fucking internet connection.
[22:19:00] <XXCoder> more details http://www.wired.com/2014/03/warka-water-africa/
[22:19:29] <atom1> micges, i get errors trying to invert the pwmgen.00 or the GPIO.020 pin
[22:19:46] <atom1> setp hm2_[HOSTMOT2](BOARD).0.gpio.020 is_output 1
[22:19:50] <atom1> tried that
[22:20:04] <atom1> setp hm2_[HOSTMOT2](BOARD).0.gpio.020.is_output 1
[22:20:06] <atom1> and that
[22:20:36] <flyback> furrywolf_, you need a ble link :P
[22:20:47] <XXCoder> ble?
[22:20:54] <flyback> bluetooth low energy
[22:20:58] <XXCoder> oh
[22:21:01] <flyback> low speed but very tough and low power
[22:21:21] <flyback> dialog semi has a arm cortex m0 core with ble 4.9MA in tx and rx
[22:21:22] <XXCoder> does it need some isp?
[22:21:36] <flyback> well yeah she would have to have someone with a link :P
[22:22:21] <furrywolf_> why would I use some weird slow low-power technology as opposed to, say, wifi?
[22:22:31] <norias> hmpf
[22:22:34] <flyback> nothing I kinda meant it in jest
[22:22:47] <flyback> it is really cool shit
[22:22:52] <flyback> I mean holy fuck
[22:22:54] <pcw_home> atom1: You will not be able to set a GPIO pin to output mode if its part of an enabled input only module
[22:22:56] <flyback> 4.9ma tx/rx
[22:23:11] <furrywolf_> range? six feet?
[22:23:18] <XXCoder> one mm?
[22:23:19] <flyback> no way more than that
[22:23:27] <furrywolf_> ten feet?
[22:23:35] <atom1> PCW, i just need to invert the pwm signal
[22:23:48] <flyback> > 330
[22:23:50] <XXCoder> plkenty of eink screens on alibaba
[22:24:02] <XXCoder> wonder if it can be adopted to linuxcnc for display lol
[22:24:02] <atom1> and it says i need to set to output before i can set invert_output
[22:24:03] <furrywolf_> can you just set the duty cycle to 1-duty cycle or something?
[22:24:04] <flyback> 0.27mbit
[22:24:06] <flyback> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bluetooth_low_energy
[22:24:43] <atom1> that should be an output signal...
[22:24:47] <flyback> I believe you can canuck with the duty cycle
[22:24:52] <flyback> like you can in zigbee
[22:25:04] <pcw_home> then you just invert the GPIO output pin
[22:25:15] <XXCoder> example http://www.aliexpress.com/item/EINK-6-2-inch-TFT-LCD-Screen-PW062XS3-LF/1874270472.html
[22:25:24] <XXCoder> oh nm
[22:25:43] <XXCoder> http://www.aliexpress.com/item/Whlesale-New-original-ED060SC4-Eink-LCD-for-Ebook-reader-large-sty-in-stock/578463573.html
[22:26:09] <atom1> ok well that worked! thanks
[22:26:22] <pcw_home> invert_output parameter
[22:26:24] <flyback> porbably the same one bgmicro sells for $1.99
[22:26:27] <furrywolf_> you can adapt anything to display anything. the question is how much work it takes. another question is why you want a slow, mono technology...
[22:26:28] <flyback> nightmare to drive
[22:26:34] <flyback> furrywolf_,
[22:26:39] <flyback> it retains when off
[22:26:44] <flyback> it's not just a grey lcd
[22:26:51] <furrywolf_> yes, I know what it is.
[22:26:56] <XXCoder> shes right it is slow
[22:27:02] <XXCoder> not good for cnc actuallt
[22:27:12] <flyback> oh yeah you would be like ugh
[22:27:20] <XXCoder> good for many uses but not cnc when it need to fresh at in least 30 fps for numvbers
[22:27:31] <XXCoder> damn
[22:27:36] <XXCoder> thanks for tip furry
[22:27:45] <pcw_home> 30 fps is useless for numbers
[22:27:53] <furrywolf_> and displaying info while off isn't very useful either, or at least I can't think of any application for that. heh.
[22:27:54] <XXCoder> pcw eink is even slower
[22:27:56] <flyback> http://www.bgmicro.com/
[22:28:11] <XXCoder> furry weather which update each say hour with 99% of it off
[22:28:18] <XXCoder> battery would last months
[22:28:27] <furrywolf_> yes, weather != cnc control.
[22:28:55] <flyback> XXCoder, RTL-SDR YOU can download weather satalite images
[22:28:55] <flyback> :P
[22:28:57] <XXCoder> didnt say it was same :)
[22:29:02] <flyback> as well as weather bands
[22:29:26] <flyback> im buying a 2nd one and putting it on a old router with rtl_433 to read the new water and power meters
[22:29:27] <flyback> to log
[22:29:32] <furrywolf_> I can't think of a useful application for power-off display on a cnc machine. anything it could display would be either irrelevant or subject to change without it knowing.
[22:29:42] <flyback> those protocols are low cpu so a old router with usb works fine
[22:29:47] <XXCoder> yeah thats why I agreed with you
[22:29:56] <XXCoder> initally I thought it would be awesome but yeah
[22:30:24] <XXCoder> thanks again for bgmicro though that sits nice
[22:30:53] <atom1> next to hook up the DAC and see if i get 10v
[22:31:06] <atom1> another day..
[22:31:21] <flyback> they used to have these nice industral cf 2gb
[22:31:23] <flyback> have smart
[22:31:27] <flyback> 40mb/sec
[22:31:31] <flyback> $5-$7
[22:31:41] <flyback> but now some asshole buys them all up and sells them for $25/each on ebay
[22:31:51] <XXCoder> aw
[22:33:41] <XXCoder> lol bg has traffic lights group
[22:33:52] <XXCoder> no item though
[22:34:06] <flyback> really? must have finally sold out
[22:34:07] <XXCoder> I has walk/stop sign, but no idea how to wire it up so it works
[22:34:29] <furrywolf_> it has, what, four wires? it can't be hard. :P
[22:34:31] <flyback> XXCoder, http://www.bgmicro.com/leds.aspx
[22:34:42] <XXCoder> furrywolf_: for enginner it isnt
[22:34:48] <XXCoder> and it has 3
[22:34:53] <zeeshan-mill> hey guys
[22:34:58] <zeeshan-mill> i keep getting this error
[22:35:00] <zeeshan-mill> havent changed anything.
[22:35:01] <XXCoder> my guess is its for high low and enable
[22:35:22] <atom1> does the spindle index pulse need to be reset each time it's triggered?
[22:35:36] <furrywolf_> high low enable? it has brains? I was figuring it had two lights.
[22:36:07] <micges> atom1: yes
[22:36:27] <furrywolf_> speaking of spindle index, do I need an actual index sensor, or can I screw with timing (like a skipped slot) and have it sense that with the quadrature sensor?
[22:36:27] <XXCoder> it would display time left with STOP
[22:36:30] <zeeshan-mill> how do you copy and paste
[22:36:34] <zeeshan-mill> from linuxcnc errors?
[22:36:37] <XXCoder> it would count down then just STOP
[22:36:54] <zeeshan-mill> im getting an "insmod error inserting /usr/realtime ....
[22:37:00] <norias> so... linuxcnc doesn't ship with a gui text editor?
[22:37:01] <zeeshan-mill> hm2_pci.ko
[22:37:06] <furrywolf_> oh... in that case, it probably receives instructions from the main controller. I doubt it has the timer internally.
[22:37:13] <XXCoder> so basically it needs power source and a way to know when to display WALK then time
[22:37:15] <XXCoder> it does
[22:37:23] <XXCoder> it has how long settings and circuit board
[22:37:34] <XXCoder> tiny switches
[22:37:45] <furrywolf_> that's... odd. it must have been designed as a retrofit to an old system.
[22:37:55] <furrywolf_> so it probably emulates two lights.
[22:37:55] <XXCoder> probably uis
[22:38:08] <furrywolf_> so one of them is common, one makes it say stop, one makes it say walk. :P
[22:38:41] <XXCoder> thats why my guess is it just gets pulse then process till end result of stop
[22:38:44] <furrywolf_> it probably completely emulates an old unit with two incandescent lamps.
[22:38:55] <XXCoder> unfortunately I cant figure more than that
[22:38:58] <furrywolf_> probably expects a constant signal, not a pulse.
[22:39:24] <furrywolf_> old units had two lights. if it's designed to replace them, that'll be its inputs.
[22:39:42] <XXCoder> found it in closet
[22:39:43] <atom1> micges, that explains why i only saw one pulse on the LA then :D
[22:39:52] <furrywolf_> you connect one wire to neutral, then when one is hot it displays walk, the other hot displays stop, or such.
[22:39:56] <atom1> at least i know it's working
[22:40:00] <XXCoder> model jxm-300vie
[22:40:13] <XXCoder> im kind of wrong, 3 wires each side
[22:40:22] <furrywolf_> for spindle index, many things with indexes use a skipped slot or something for the index... can linuxcnc work with that without too much extra coding?
[22:40:24] <XXCoder> one side has switches to set time
[22:42:20] <furrywolf_> it runs off 110AC...
[22:43:32] <furrywolf_> http://www.trastarusa.com/ email them and ask for wiring info?
[22:43:43] <XXCoder> thanks
[22:43:53] <pcw_home> furrywolf_ I dont think theres any such code for missing slot index
[22:43:54] <pcw_home> (might be possible for most of the ways linuxcnc uses index but not generally reliable especially with reversals)
[22:44:15] <flyback> http://www.bgmicro.com/mini-pump-air-gas.aspx
[22:44:52] <furrywolf_> I don't have software spindle control... just need to synchronize movement for single-point threading.
[22:46:31] <pcw_home> thats normally done with an encoder with a index (if you have good speed control, index only will work)
[22:46:38] <Tom_itx> will i need to set up PID with the encoder to monitor the spindle speed?
[22:46:47] <pcw_home> No
[22:46:47] <furrywolf_> it almost sounds like the countdown and the hand/person are completely independent, so the symbol will be emulating two lamps (one common and two hots), while the countdown is probably power and trigger or such.
[22:47:01] <XXCoder> indeed
[22:47:19] <Tom_itx> i _will_ need to scale on the encoder since i swapped it out
[22:47:37] <furrywolf_> yes, I know it's normally done with an encoder with an index. I want to know if I can avoid a separate sensor for the encoder, because I'm lazy, space is tight, and it's more stuff to align. :)
[22:47:39] <XXCoder> I bought it for $10 like a billion years ago and wanna see it work lol
[22:48:49] <pcw_home> Tom_itx: for tapping and threading, Z is electronically geared to the spindle so the spindle speed accuracy is not terribly important
[22:48:59] <Tom_itx> ok
[22:49:01] <zeeshan-mill> when i do : loadrt hostmot2
[22:49:02] <zeeshan-mill> loadrt hm2_pci
[22:49:07] <zeeshan-mill> it fails
[22:49:17] <zeeshan-mill> http://pastebin.com/h8CC9ccs
[22:49:19] <zeeshan-mill> dmesg
[22:49:30] <zeeshan-mill> all i did was run a 15 ft vga cable
[22:49:42] <furrywolf_> what color are the wires?
[22:50:06] <XXCoder> white, red, brown
[22:50:07] <pcw_home> probably need more of dmesg to makes sense
[22:50:14] <zeeshan-mill> thats all i see?
[22:50:28] <furrywolf_> connect white to neutral, and hot to red or brown, plug it into the wall, see what happens?
[22:50:46] <zeeshan-mill> btw
[22:50:48] <zeeshan-mill> i blew up another Z drive.
[22:50:51] <zeeshan-mill> exact same manner
[22:50:56] <zeeshan-mill> i dont know what the hell is going on what that shit
[22:50:59] <furrywolf_> so don't do that?
[22:50:59] <XXCoder> ehh would like to wait for them to contact me lol
[22:51:06] <zeeshan-mill> if i power cycle within 20 seconds
[22:51:07] <zeeshan-mill> it blows up?
[22:51:14] <norias> anyone in here do coding on linuxcnc?
[22:51:52] <zeeshan-mill> and mesa isnt working anymore :(\
[22:52:15] <furrywolf_> standard is, according to a random .gov spec document I found, red for the hand, brown for the person.
[22:52:54] <furrywolf_> brb
[22:53:08] <pcw_home> got to be more of dmesg
[22:53:22] <zeeshan-mill> http://pastebin.com/3nxFxfMx
[22:53:24] <zeeshan-mill> full dmesg
[22:53:53] <pcw_home> cut off at the end
[22:53:58] <XXCoder> weird because both sets has it
[22:54:12] <XXCoder> one side is number display and other is both person/hand
[22:55:29] <zeeshan-mill> pcw_home, that is the last line
[22:55:34] <zeeshan-mill> im doing dmesg >> output
[22:55:37] <zeeshan-mill> to grab the dmesg
[22:55:53] <Connor> Is it just the Z that's blowing ?
[22:55:53] <renesis> just dmesg and see if it matches
[22:55:57] <zeeshan-mill> connor yes
[22:55:59] <zeeshan-mill> second time.
[22:56:04] <zeeshan-mill> thats a seperate issue though
[22:56:09] <zeeshan-mill> i wanna know whats up with mesa
[22:56:27] <renesis> maybe its truncating the output for some random unknown wtf reason
[22:56:43] <zeeshan-mill> renesis, it mathes
[22:56:45] <Connor> Wonder why it's only blowing Z drivers..
[22:56:47] <zeeshan-mill> 81.951313
[22:56:54] <zeeshan-mill> is the last line
[22:56:55] <pcw_home> I would do
[22:56:56] <pcw_home> sudo dmesg -c
[22:56:58] <pcw_home> linuxcnc
[22:56:59] <pcw_home> dmesg >badfoofoo
[22:57:22] <renesis> because z driver is the diff one?
[22:57:40] <renesis> would be weirder if only one of the other drives blew
[22:58:04] <renesis> sounds like a half developed protection or power sequencing circuit
[22:58:30] <pcw_home> Z axis brushes need changing/commutator needs cleaning
[22:58:41] <zeeshan-mill> http://pastebin.com/jMKeK2SJ
[22:58:58] <Connor> Have you had the Z axis moving yet?
[22:59:01] <pcw_home> Z axix motor top larger for drive
[22:59:04] <renesis> pcw_home: im assuming unloaded?
[22:59:09] <zeeshan-mill> it blows up
[22:59:14] <zeeshan-mill> when the drive is in disabled state
[22:59:17] <zeeshan-mill> when i power cycle it
[22:59:19] <zeeshan-mill> not when i run it.
[22:59:37] <renesis> right so it doesnt sound like an output circuit issue, unless it is because of some power sequence issue
[22:59:55] <zeeshan-mill> x y z are on the same contactor
[22:59:57] <furrywolf_> found another page saying red is hand, brown is person, white is neutral.
[22:59:58] <pcw_home> thats still only bits of dmesg
[22:59:59] <zeeshan-mill> so they get turned on at the same time
[23:00:08] <zeeshan-mill> pcw_home, i swear thats what it is showing me
[23:00:09] <renesis> put an index mark on the spindle and see if it moved at all?
[23:00:40] <renesis> i doubt it, but if it does you have some clues
[23:00:58] <XXCoder> interesting
[23:01:02] <renesis> well, ext time you decide to blow one up
[23:01:10] <renesis> ^n
[23:01:13] <renesis> missed
[23:01:58] <zeeshan-mill> when i start the comp
[23:02:01] <zeeshan-mill> the 5i25 red light flashes
[23:02:04] <zeeshan-mill> like itn ormally does
[23:02:18] <renesis> zeeshan-mill: how are your partitions setup?
[23:02:44] <zeeshan-mill> when i do lspci -vvv
[23:02:47] <renesis> maybe you ran out of /var
[23:02:48] <zeeshan-mill> i dont see 5i25 there
[23:02:58] <zeeshan-mill> renesis, hm
[23:03:04] <zeeshan-mill> i dont knwo how to answer your q
[23:03:12] <renesis> then its prob not an issue
[23:03:22] <furrywolf_> xxcoder: try wiring it up and see what it does?
[23:03:40] <XXCoder> furry, if it is like that I guess sign detects change from stop to walk and starts timer
[23:03:46] <pcw_home> so maybe 5I25 damaged
[23:03:48] <pcw_home> try lspci | grep 2718
[23:03:59] <zeeshan-mill> no reply
[23:04:14] <XXCoder> yeah evenually will try, just need safe way to test
[23:04:19] <zeeshan-mill> that means 5i25 is not detected?
[23:04:24] <zeeshan-mill> let me try changing the ports.
[23:04:26] <zeeshan-mill> pci ports
[23:04:27] <furrywolf_> xxcoder: could easily be the two sets get connected together, and they just build the symbol+countdown module as two separate units in the same box.
[23:04:29] <renesis> modprobe all the things!
[23:04:36] <zeeshan-mill> brb
[23:05:47] <furrywolf_> safe? a power cord with the end chopped off and a couple wire nuts.
[23:05:52] <furrywolf_> how much safer do you want?
[23:06:00] <XXCoder> I dont have wire nuts :)
[23:06:09] <renesis> crimped rings, screw terms
[23:06:25] <renesis> or AMP fast-on with the correct thickness
[23:06:33] <renesis> thickness != width
[23:07:22] <furrywolf_> ... who doesn't own wire nuts?
[23:07:34] <renesis> theyre hackish
[23:07:51] <XXCoder> actually I do but it has screw down umm fork? dunno what its called
[23:07:52] <renesis> i use them for quick dirty shit
[23:07:59] <renesis> spade
[23:08:20] <XXCoder> okay. anyway gonna get a switch so I can switch walk/no walk
[23:08:20] <renesis> http://www.allelectronics.com/make-a-store/category/196650/crimp-terminals/spade-terminals/1.html
[23:08:56] <XXCoder> furry thanks a ton though
[23:09:02] <furrywolf_> switches require power wiring. for testing, wire nuts are excellent.
[23:09:17] <XXCoder> evenually make up something to control it lol
[23:09:25] <XXCoder> I dont want to strip off spades
[23:09:45] <zeeshan-mill> fixed it
[23:09:48] <furrywolf_> oh, it already has disconnects?
[23:09:50] <zeeshan-mill> it wasnt seated right i guess.
[23:09:53] <zeeshan-mill> now it works
[23:09:53] <XXCoder> built in
[23:10:07] <zeeshan-mill> that was weird :)
[23:10:10] <zeeshan-mill> scared me for a sec
[23:10:17] <furrywolf_> Units shall be supplied with three colored coded wires as defined below:
[23:10:17] <furrywolf_> Red (Connection to Pedestrian Hand Switch pack output), Brown (Connection to Pedestrian Man Switch
[23:10:17] <furrywolf_> pack output) & White (AC Neutral)
[23:10:20] <zeeshan-mill> so why would my Z drive be blowing
[23:10:23] <zeeshan-mill> this is the second one ive blown
[23:10:26] <furrywolf_> another one, NY DOT this time.
[23:10:26] <zeeshan-mill> i only have one more spare left
[23:10:37] <pcw_home> if you have an older MB that has had vacant PCI slots they are likely dirty
[23:10:39] <zeeshan-mill> ill tell you guys how i blow it up
[23:10:53] <XXCoder> funny, I always thought it was hot, netural and signal
[23:10:57] <zeeshan-mill> i disable the drive.
[23:11:03] <zeeshan-mill> i press e-stop which kills power
[23:11:14] <zeeshan-mill> after all the devices turn off (caps discharge)
[23:11:19] <zeeshan-mill> ~ 20s econds
[23:11:22] <furrywolf_> no, it's to emulate two incandescent lamps, like I said. :P
[23:11:24] <zeeshan-mill> i release the e-stop
[23:11:32] <zeeshan-mill> and instantly the z drive blows up
[23:11:35] <renesis> you could ring it out with a DMM
[23:11:44] <zeeshan-mill> and the z drive mains fuse blows up
[23:11:47] <Connor> When you kill the power, does that kill the logic PSU too?
[23:11:49] <zeeshan-mill> but not the internal fuse of the drive.
[23:11:55] <zeeshan-mill> connor no.
[23:11:58] <furrywolf_> don't have your e-stop kill power to the drives! if you insist on that, put a 1000uf cap on the drive power input terminals, or something. or have the e-stop kill the power before the filter caps.
[23:12:08] <renesis> from common to other wires you should get a fraction of the total resistance from hot to hot
[23:12:09] <zeeshan-mill> furrywolf_, i contacted amc
[23:12:11] <XXCoder> furrywolf_: yeah.
[23:12:12] <zeeshan-mill> they said power cycling is fine.
[23:12:33] <zeeshan-mill> why isnt my X and Y drive blowing up?
[23:12:37] <zeeshan-mill> why only Z?
[23:12:37] <renesis> have you checked your power?
[23:12:42] <renesis> put a scope on that shit
[23:12:51] <pcw_home> Z is a much bigger motor
[23:12:51] <zeeshan-mill> its literally
[23:12:59] <zeeshan-mill> 15amp fuse -> motor
[23:13:02] <furrywolf_> do you have a lower voltage supply tapped off the main supply somehow?
[23:13:04] <renesis> obviously use correct probes or dropping resistors or just use a fuckin dmm
[23:13:11] <zeeshan-mill> pcw_home, but in disabled state will it still consume current?
[23:13:29] <zeeshan-mill> renesis, i dont wanna blow up another drive.
[23:13:31] <zeeshan-mill> thats my final drive
[23:13:34] <renesis> does it have a breaker, pcb fuse?
[23:13:37] <furrywolf_> xxcoder: the original units had two lamps, and no brains. so the new ones emulate that.
[23:13:41] <pcw_home> There should be no fuse connected to the motor
[23:13:50] <XXCoder> you did tell me that yes
[23:13:56] <zeeshan-mill> i dont have a fuse to the motor
[23:13:59] <zeeshan-mill> i have a fuse to the Z drive
[23:14:00] <renesis> pcw_home: i mean on the driver input
[23:14:10] <renesis> maybe inrush is fucking something
[23:14:13] <zeeshan-mill> it did the EXACT same thing
[23:14:17] <zeeshan-mill> literally blew up the exact same parts
[23:14:24] <zeeshan-mill> its a mirror copy almost lol
[23:14:31] <renesis> parts are blown?
[23:14:36] <renesis> pics
[23:14:37] <XXCoder> you sure it's not deju vu, zee? lol
[23:14:42] <zeeshan-mill> XXCoder, nahh lol
[23:14:43] <XXCoder> seriously it sucks
[23:15:07] <zeeshan-mill> it was working so good the last couple days
[23:15:11] <zeeshan-mill> and now ive blown 2 drives in a row
[23:15:22] <zeeshan-mill> in between the 2 blow ups
[23:15:25] <zeeshan-mill> i did move Z and it was working fine.
[23:15:29] <renesis> is your estop involved?
[23:15:32] <pcw_home> I would disconnect your Z motor and do a hipot test
[23:15:35] <zeeshan-mill> involved in what
[23:15:51] <renesis> i dont think he has a hipot tester?
[23:16:00] <furrywolf_> a simple ohms-to-ground reading is probably sufficient.
[23:16:10] <zeeshan-mill> ohms to ground from where to where
[23:16:21] <furrywolf_> again, do you have a lower voltage suply tapped off your main supply somehow?
[23:16:33] <zeeshan-mill> furrywolf_, i dont get your Q
[23:16:35] <furrywolf_> on the motor. none of its leads should have conductivity to ground.
[23:16:37] <renesis> ohms reasing wont tell you when the enamel on the coils is breaking down
[23:16:38] <zeeshan-mill> i have a 24vdc supply
[23:16:40] <pcw_home> from either motor lead to graond
[23:16:46] <zeeshan-mill> and 5vdc suypply
[23:16:56] <zeeshan-mill> and furrywolf_ remember x and y drives are on the same circuit
[23:16:58] <zeeshan-mill> and they dont blow up
[23:17:08] <furrywolf_> like a multi-tap transformer with two outputs sharing a common ground, or something like that.
[23:17:10] <pcw_home> (when both motor leads are discconected from drive)
[23:17:14] <renesis> do you have relays on the output?
[23:17:22] <renesis> estop relays between the drive and motor?
[23:17:44] <Connor> He has a contactor between supply and drives
[23:17:49] <zeeshan-mill> l1 -> x , y -> contactor -> drive
[23:17:54] <renesis> i would debug the fuck out of your wiring before attaching another drive
[23:17:56] <zeeshan-mill> l2 -> z -> contactor -> drive
[23:18:27] <Connor> that's interesting.. l2 is Z only ?
[23:18:27] <furrywolf_> are l1 and l2 fed from the same source?
[23:18:28] <zeeshan-mill> l1 -> x,y, 24vdc psu, 5v psu, lubricator, lamp, fans, computer, one leg to spindle vfd
[23:18:59] <pcw_home> Since its only Z you are having an issue with, I would check that theres not a problem with the motor
[23:18:59] <zeeshan-mill> l2 -> z drive, hyd pump vfd, coolant pump vfd
[23:19:12] <zeeshan-mill> okay ill check motort
[23:19:20] <furrywolf_> are these ac lines, or outputs from something else?
[23:19:28] <zeeshan-mill> ac lines
[23:19:32] <furrywolf_> that is, l1 and l2 are 120vac?
[23:19:33] <renesis> yeah maybe one of your systems is dumping energy into the driver during an off state
[23:19:35] <zeeshan-mill> im gonna kill power to system before itest
[23:19:42] <zeeshan-mill> so measure motor coil resistance
[23:19:47] <zeeshan-mill> and then one leg of coil to ground
[23:19:49] <furrywolf_> so your drives run directly off mains voltage?
[23:19:56] <zeeshan-mill> furrywolf_, yea
[23:20:02] <zeeshan-mill> they got internal supply to convert to dc
[23:20:13] <renesis> whats after the supply relay?
[23:20:21] <renesis> besides the z drive
[23:20:32] <furrywolf_> hrmm, I don't recall any AC-handling bits on that picture you pasted yesterday.
[23:20:34] <zeeshan-mill> what supply relay
[23:20:41] <zeeshan-mill> furrywolf_, its another module
[23:20:44] <zeeshan-mill> on the opposite side
[23:20:44] <furrywolf_> renesis: <zeeshan-mill> l2 -> z drive, hyd pump vfd, coolant pump vfd
[23:20:46] <furrywolf_> ah
[23:20:49] <pcw_home> you disconnect both motor leads from the drive an then measure from one motor lead to groumd
[23:20:55] <renesis> the estop between the supply and drive
[23:21:06] <zeeshan-mill> brtb gona measure
[23:21:21] <furrywolf_> ok, in that case, I take back what I said. your e-stop shouldn't be causing a problem. I thought you had a separate dc supply for the drives, and were interrupting it between the supply and drive.
[23:21:24] <renesis> thats not very hipot pcw_home, heh
[23:21:57] <pcw_home> Was this mill outside at all?
[23:22:14] <renesis> furrywolf_: if he has more than the z drive on the z drive side of the relay, then maybe something is dumping power into the z drive
[23:22:22] <renesis> pcw_home: for years =\
[23:22:34] <furrywolf_> renesis: he doesn't have a relay, he has a contactor, on the AC input.
[23:22:49] <furrywolf_> the drives have built-in ac power supplies.
[23:22:56] <renesis> contactor isnt a relay?
[23:23:16] <furrywolf_> no, as it opens two gaps, not one. :P
[23:23:35] <renesis> its dual pole?
[23:23:51] <renesis> DPST or DPDT relay
[23:23:56] <furrywolf_> the only thing I can think is a wiring fault allows it to see 240v during e-stop... but that'd be highly odd.
[23:24:27] <furrywolf_> and not likely if he's not opening the neutral too.
[23:24:34] <renesis> of course itd be odd but this is a work in progress
[23:25:01] <Connor> I would double check his L2 buss.
[23:25:03] <renesis> so is the DC supply input on the same net as the Z drive input?
[23:25:16] <Connor> I think DC supplies are on L1
[23:25:28] <furrywolf_> again, he doesn't have a separate dc supply. the drivers have their own built-in power supplies.
[23:25:29] <furrywolf_> other than small ones
[23:25:42] <renesis> theres other things in the system, de def has dc supplies
[23:25:42] <Connor> He has a Logic Supply.
[23:25:56] <renesis> 09:03:17 < zeeshan-mill> l2 -> z drive, hyd pump vfd, coolant pump vfd
[23:26:02] <renesis> what does that mean
[23:26:18] <furrywolf_> right, but those other supplies shouldn't be able to cause a catastrophic failure of another mains-powered device...
[23:26:32] <Connor> He has the Z Drive, Hydraulic and coolant pump on L2
[23:26:32] <furrywolf_> renesis: it means the l2 pin on his contactor is powering the three devices listed
[23:26:44] <renesis> unless theres something wonky with the protection, sequencing, or inrush circuits, and hes unlucky
[23:27:32] <furrywolf_> zeeshan: is there any other way for power to get into the driver? non-optoisolated control inputs? a feedback loop of some form running off an external power supply?
[23:27:34] <renesis> those circuits tend to be simpler discrete things that dont always act predictably
[23:27:55] <renesis> instead of cutting power, it may be browning out because of energy in the other systems
[23:28:05] <renesis> not that likely, but nothing is likely
[23:28:19] <renesis> if were only considering likely things, he doesnt have a problem and were done!
[23:28:29] <R2E4> Hi all
[23:28:43] <renesis> hi
[23:28:57] <R2E4> Howz it going?
[23:29:03] <furrywolf_> if there's an external source of power into the driver, it could react unhappily to having it powered with the mains input off.
[23:29:04] <R2E4> You knoiw linuxcnc well?\
[23:29:16] <renesis> furrywolf_: yes
[23:29:27] <renesis> thats what ive been trying to say for the past 10 min or whatever
[23:29:42] <R2E4> I tried to get a p[ost to work with mastercam. it sent my machine into using machine coords.
[23:29:49] <renesis> because a circuit might depend on ramp down timing from 0V condition that isnt happening
[23:29:53] <R2E4> How do I get it back to using G54
[23:30:37] <renesis> and i dont think this is as likely as an intermittent wiring issue
[23:30:42] <renesis> or intermittent short
[23:31:01] <renesis> i think most of zees bench testing was done with the cab in another orientation
[23:31:54] <renesis> also he mentioned the same stuff blew up, like parts lost their smoke
[23:32:06] <furrywolf_> yes
[23:32:10] <renesis> pics would help, possibly localize it to input or output
[23:32:26] <furrywolf_> the original pic he had, of the first driver, showed what looks like a 3-terminal regulator and a filter cap exploded.
[23:32:47] <renesis> they usually only explode when you reverse them
[23:33:00] <renesis> theyre well protected from pretty much everything else
[23:33:16] <renesis> unless theyre asshats and dont have a rev bias diode across the vreg
[23:33:20] <zeeshan|2> 590 mohm
[23:33:27] <zeeshan|2> between coil and ground
[23:33:33] <renesis> in which case, abnormal timing of rail dropout could blow it up
[23:33:38] <furrywolf_> that's entirely acceptable.
[23:33:47] <furrywolf_> assuming you mean Mohm. :)
[23:33:48] <pcw_home> OK well that sounds OK
[23:34:04] <furrywolf_> they also explode if you severely overvolt them.
[23:34:09] <zeeshan|2> yes megaohm
[23:34:10] <renesis> you have something that measures 590meg?
[23:34:23] <zeeshan|2> thats qwhat the klein autoranging multimeter says
[23:34:23] <zeeshan|2> haha
[23:34:34] <renesis> how does it say it?
[23:34:34] <zeeshan|2> i take it as "very high"
[23:34:43] <zeeshan|2> er
[23:34:47] <zeeshan|2> i meant to say .590 mohm
[23:34:49] <zeeshan|2> Mohm
[23:34:50] <renesis> good because it wont be accurate considering the input impedance of the dmm
[23:34:52] <zeeshan|2> not 590 Mohm
[23:34:58] <renesis> oh
[23:35:03] <renesis> so 590k
[23:35:07] <zeeshan|2> yea
[23:35:09] <renesis> thats a real life value
[23:35:32] <zeeshan|2> furrywolf_: to answer your q
[23:35:35] <furrywolf_> > zeeshan: is there any other way for power to get into the driver? non-optoisolated control inputs? a feedback loop of some form running off an external power supply?
[23:35:41] <zeeshan|2> the only external power supply to the drive is the enable signal
[23:35:45] <zeeshan|2> from the 7i77
[23:35:45] <pcw_home> How clean is the commutator area?
[23:35:54] <zeeshan|2> it does not have a commutator
[23:35:57] <zeeshan|2> its a tachometer
[23:36:03] <zeeshan|2> unless theyre the same thing :P
[23:36:04] <pcw_home> the motor does
[23:36:13] <zeeshan|2> i havent taken it apart
[23:36:30] <zeeshan|2> ofcourse this had to happen to my Z axis
[23:36:33] <zeeshan|2> the one that is the pain in the ASS!!!
[23:36:34] <zeeshan|2> :)
[23:36:41] <pcw_home> might not be a bad idea to check that area
[23:36:47] <zeeshan|2> could it be something to do with the fact that i have my brake turned on always
[23:36:58] <zeeshan|2> and during start up the motor tries to move a little
[23:37:04] <zeeshan|2> but it cant
[23:37:10] <zeeshan|2> making it draw major current
[23:37:17] <furrywolf_> that shouldn't fry anything.
[23:37:27] <pcw_home> The drive should current limit if it needs to
[23:37:33] <renesis> is the drive current limited?
[23:37:33] <furrywolf_> any driver that melts on a non-moving axis has design issues.
[23:37:36] <renesis> neat
[23:38:04] <furrywolf_> any chance your brake power is somehow mis-wired and getting onto the motor circuits?
[23:38:16] <zeeshan|2> no
[23:38:28] <zeeshan|2> i tripled checked the brake
[23:38:38] <zeeshan|2> its the only one that spits out 176 ohms reading
[23:38:47] <zeeshan|2> wow
[23:38:49] <zeeshan|2> im a fucking idiot
[23:38:49] <zeeshan|2> LOL
[23:38:58] <zeeshan|2> WOW just wow, i just realized what idid when measuring
[23:39:05] <zeeshan|2> BAHAHHA im embarassed to admit it
[23:39:13] <zeeshan|2> i measured the CONNECTOR
[23:39:17] <renesis> circuits live?
[23:39:21] <zeeshan|2> not the frigging motor !
[23:39:28] <zeeshan|2> i disconnected the connector from the motor
[23:39:31] <zeeshan|2> and measured the connector
[23:39:32] <zeeshan|2> LOL
[23:39:41] <furrywolf_> so you made sure your drive wasn't shorted to ground, then? :P
[23:39:41] <zeeshan|2> so dumb.
[23:39:48] <zeeshan|2> im gonna remeasure the motor.
[23:40:08] <renesis> its worked fine before tho, right?
[23:40:46] <renesis> if its a short its something intermittent, which is usually electromechanical, which might be the dirty motor electronics, or something thats shifted when the cabinet was reoriented
[23:41:29] <furrywolf_> the damage is pretty good, like high voltage where there shouldn't be any.
[23:41:38] <furrywolf_> any chance your motor power is shorting to the tach?
[23:41:44] <renesis> pics or it didnt happen
[23:41:54] <renesis> heh, that would be awesome
[23:43:15] <furrywolf_> one of the more-exploded tantalum caps I've seen.
[23:44:04] <renesis> and those things can get pretty explody
[23:44:24] <furrywolf_> yes
[23:51:38] * furrywolf_ notes measurement is taking abnormally long, and wonders if investigation into abnormal measurements is underway
[23:52:46] <zeeshan|2> 8.8 Mohm reading now
[23:53:00] <zeeshan|2> its a pain in the ass to get to the motor
[23:53:22] <zeeshan|2> renesis: yes it worked fine before
[23:53:52] <zeeshan|2> https://www.flickr.com/photos/128539016@N05/16245459030/
[23:53:56] <zeeshan|2> pics are there ren
[23:54:03] <zeeshan|2> https://www.flickr.com/photos/128539016@N05/16406891086/in/photostream/
[23:55:59] <renesis> yeah man see that little maze of sot23, dpak, soic, and 0805? it looks a lot like analog power timing crap
[23:56:36] <furrywolf_> that second url redirects to flickr.com
[23:56:50] <zeeshan|2> god i hat eflickr
[23:56:50] <renesis> everything else on the board is IC-centric
[23:56:52] <zeeshan|2> and their stupid shit
[23:56:56] <zeeshan|2> https://www.flickr.com/photos/128539016@N05/16406891086/
[23:56:57] <zeeshan|2> second link
[23:57:05] <furrywolf_> I do too. so don't use it. :P
[23:57:18] <zeeshan|2> havent found a better site yet
[23:57:18] <zeeshan|2> :P
[23:57:40] <renesis> just use imgur its 2015
[23:57:51] <zeeshan|2> imgur has limit of 300 imgs
[23:58:07] <zeeshan|2> if there was a short in the motor windings
[23:58:12] <renesis> anyway, they dont want you to know what the circuit is
[23:58:14] <zeeshan|2> a temporary short like youre saying
[23:58:16] <renesis> all the chips are wiped
[23:58:34] <renesis> they swear theyre chinese or something
[23:58:58] <zeeshan|2> man my servo experience hasnt be too great at all
[23:59:01] <zeeshan|2> :(
[23:59:23] <renesis> step/dir/fuckit
[23:59:27] <zeeshan|2> lol
[23:59:50] <renesis> have you spent more than a fully outfitted tormach on this thing yet?