#linuxcnc | Logs for 2015-02-02

[00:01:10] <witnit> oooh I think i found what i needed PCW answered this back in sept of 2014
[00:44:09] <zeeshan|2> im confused on how to do this
[00:44:18] <zeeshan|2> i noticed a big problem
[00:44:46] <zeeshan|2> if g-code is running , and linuxcnc keeps running the code
[00:44:50] <zeeshan|2> even though the spindle isn't spinning
[00:45:27] <zeeshan|2> like it thinks the spindle is spinning, when it's physically not
[00:45:51] <zeeshan|2> i want to make a loop or something that checks vfd.outfrequency pin (which monitors the vfd output frequency)
[00:46:26] <zeeshan|2> and if it's less than a certain threshold, maybe 0.8Hz , linuxcnc should go in e-stop mode -- any clues on how to implement?
[00:46:53] <zeeshan|2> a monitor on the spindle velocity would also work..
[01:07:55] <bobo_> does this mean Spindle has no feed back error as other axis have ? could one add another axis that is the spindle ?
[01:42:28] <Tecan> anyone with 3d printers should give the new blender a try
[01:42:57] <Tecan> grease pencil has a ruler+protractor, and a 3d print toolbox addon that comes stock with it
[01:48:44] <LeelooMinai> 3D blobber
[02:19:10] <Deejay> moin
[03:22:14] <witnit> im not sure what all im doing right and what im doing wrong but it sure is neat to watch the lights on this 7i92 blink when i ping it, feels like progress somehow
[03:25:01] <witnit> ooooh if you do a "ping -i .2" it goes fast :)
[05:30:57] <witnit> hm2_eth: discovered 7I92
[05:31:22] <witnit> Im very happy right :) I thought this would take me alot longer to get working
[05:31:52] <witnit> right now* =D
[05:43:00] <witnit> pcw_home thank you again, these cards are too awesome
[06:33:59] <witnit__> it amazes me, i have been able to install every mesa card i have gotten, made sense of encoders, servos, gcode, bash, php, mysql, compiling, iptables, flashing bit files, countless items, and i still cant get this ..... label printer installed
[06:35:19] <witnit__> i dont even need it to install on linux anymore I ended up installing it in windows on virtualbox in linux and shared, but still It bothers me greatly i cant get it to work natively in linux
[06:43:10] <_methods> hahahah
[06:43:14] <_methods> i hate printers
[06:43:15] <_methods> period
[06:43:29] <_methods> printers give me more nightmares than any tech device ever made
[06:49:02] <witnit__> its an intermec network printer :( everytime i send a job to it with linux it either dies or spits out hundreds of labels so frustrating
[06:50:54] <jack16> Can I set acceleration on per-move basis in gcode?
[06:52:19] <_methods> hmm i'm not sure
[06:52:32] <witnit__> maybe you could set an mcode to run a halcmd?
[06:57:37] <witnit__> jack16 servo system or stepper?
[06:58:23] <jack16> stepper with software generation
[07:04:51] <witnit__> I wonder if you could do something like setp stepgen.0.position-scale 10000 then make a move and do that again but with variable 5000
[07:05:05] <witnit__> and see then back again, does that work?
[07:09:28] <witnit__> It would make alot of sense to be able to adjust something like that on the fly with some outside variable, like a robot that had to pick and place items, it could adjust its velocity based on a weight of picked item
[07:26:30] <_methods> well i'm pretty sure cradek would be the one to talk to about on that
[07:33:20] <witnit__> oh yes, haah dont ever try anything i suggest on real hardware hahaha
[07:45:49] <jack16> I do not think you can touch hal unless program is paused
[07:46:43] <jack16> because gcode component is not synchronized with hal
[07:49:44] <witnit__> well, if that were true would it make a difference considering you are swapping velocity BETWEEN /per-move basis?
[08:03:39] <jack16> " The variables are read during read-ahead and should not be used for run time evaluation of current position or other execution time variables."
[08:03:58] <jack16> hal variables from gcode
[08:06:44] <jack16> the only possible way can be from python remapping and emctask module
[08:11:55] <jack16> and I think it will be effectively read-only
[08:32:22] <monkeyisl> hello http://www.aliexpress.com/store/product/110-220V-40W-200-300mm-Mini-CO2-Laser-Engraver-Engraving-Cutting-Machine-3020-Laser-with-USB/809293_997131630.html?s=p
[08:32:42] <monkeyisl> that will work for arylic 5T ~ 7T ?
[08:32:47] <monkeyisl> anyone has tried?
[08:34:16] <malcom2073_> Heh, I was like "wow they've gottne cheap! ohhhh shipping"
[08:35:31] <Rab> monkeyisl, sup
[08:40:53] <cpresser> monkeyisl: what is 5T ~ 7T ?
[08:44:00] <cpresser> monkeyisl: 40W will cut 3mm without problems; 6mm ist also okay
[08:47:38] <jack16> Here is video review of this laser cutter http://youtu.be/KhhOHUe_b6o
[08:53:53] <monkeyisl> Rab : lol what!
[08:57:35] <kengu> https://scontent-b.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xap1/v/t1.0-9/10157189_907665935934582_7059786075856817691_n.jpg?oh=5e1faa5189763b69b6394e46dc889c63&oe=5563DC58
[09:07:32] <monkeyisl> Thanks for your input.
[09:07:35] <monkeyisl> Rab : sup
[10:20:24] <pcw_home> Changing acceleration during motion is a queue buster so likely to be a lose in most cases
[10:43:22] <Bushman> i will get gray hair cause of this DXF2GCODE program.
[10:43:38] <_methods> hahah
[10:43:57] <Bushman> it generated a code that creates random circles where they weren't suppose to be
[10:44:05] <PetefromTn_> IJ?
[10:44:08] <_methods> have you tried heekscam?
[10:44:15] <_methods> is this one a windows box or linux box?
[10:44:28] <_methods> i think heekscam is still free on linux
[10:44:51] <_methods> and the tool pathing on it was pretty good last time i used it for normal 2d pathing
[10:45:05] <_methods> s/one/on
[10:45:56] <Bushman> _methods: i work on linux and yes, i did try heeks... it's crashing all the time
[10:46:11] <_methods> ah that sux
[10:46:52] <Bushman> the DXF2GCODE seems ok for me... if only it wouldn't create random output lol
[10:46:57] <_methods> hahaha
[10:47:12] <_methods> yeah that can be a problem, unless you are an artist or something lol
[10:47:26] <_methods> and you'd like to add some entropy to your art hehe
[10:47:43] <_methods> art courtesy of dxf2gcode
[10:48:35] <Bushman> http://bushman.pl/misc/cad/owl01.dxf
[10:48:41] <Bushman> that's the source
[10:48:52] <PetefromTn_> you might try CamBam but it is not free. you can use it for like 50 times before the trial expires and if you can not shut it down you can stretch that out quite a bit LOL...
[10:49:20] <Bushman> http://bushman.pl/misc/cad/owl01.ngc
[10:49:24] <Bushman> that's the output
[10:49:44] <Bushman> PetefromTn_: i know bamcam and yes, it's not free
[10:50:03] <Bushman> i try to stick to free software
[10:50:44] <Bushman> because pretty much 99% of the jobs i do in my homemade machine are hobby stuff
[10:51:05] <PetefromTn_> I wish there was a free 3d cam software that was worth a shit but so far I have not found one..
[10:51:11] <Bushman> where i can't justify spending more money on it :P
[10:53:36] <JT-Shop> tjb1, you around?
[10:55:13] <_methods> well there is always fusion360
[10:55:21] <_methods> it's free for hobbyists and students
[10:55:24] <_methods> but it's not linux
[10:57:40] <Bushman> mhm
[10:59:06] <Bushman> oh, autodesk
[10:59:14] <_methods> yeah :(
[10:59:16] <_methods> it works though
[10:59:38] <_methods> i hate recommending it
[10:59:53] <_methods> but the toolpathing part of it really is pretty impressive
[11:01:15] <Bushman> well, there's also sheetcam. it's nice CAM software but trial version is limited to 140 something lines (including preprocesor comments and stuff like that)
[11:01:52] <PetefromTn_> I thought you said you did not want anything but freeware?
[11:02:01] <_methods> oh man i'd love to find some open source nesting software
[11:02:17] <Bushman> i'd love they made a student/hobby version with somewhat more workable limit.. like 500 lines or something
[11:02:21] <_methods> he did i was just throwing that out there
[11:02:36] <Bushman> i said i try to stick to freeware
[11:03:32] <Bushman> but just because you have a wife at home for free, doesn't mean you can't go to the streets and try comercial solutions
[11:03:54] <_methods> heheh
[11:08:50] <_methods> well i had decent luck with heekscnc
[11:09:09] <_methods> you might try spinning up a clean ubuntu vm and putting it on that
[11:09:40] <Bushman> if i would VM anything, it would be XP for stuff like that
[11:09:47] <_methods> that too
[11:10:32] <Bushman> cause for some reason people use libs that come from linux to code for windows and then port it back to linux with shitload of bugs
[11:10:34] <_methods> did you add the repo and apt-get heekscnc?
[11:10:46] <Bushman> yes, no change
[11:10:49] <_methods> hmmm
[11:10:57] <Bushman> crashes every time and bugs out the menus
[11:11:00] <_methods> well i haven't tried it in a couple years
[11:11:33] <Bushman> for now i'm using freecad for design in 3D and simply Inkscape for 2D
[11:11:35] <Bushman> :P
[11:11:43] <_methods> yeah i like freecad
[11:13:23] <_methods> you could try that shapeoko toolchain maybe
[11:13:41] <Bushman> never heard of.
[11:13:45] * Bushman googles
[11:14:16] <_methods> i think they use some program called easel
[11:15:56] <_methods> http://www.easel.com/
[11:17:07] <_methods> i've never used it before so don't blame me if it sux ballz
[11:17:22] <_methods> blame PetefromTn_
[11:17:35] <_methods> heheh
[11:18:50] <Bushman> hmm...
[11:18:58] <Bushman> it works only with shapeoko machines
[11:19:04] <Bushman> arduino based
[11:19:19] <Bushman> or at least that's the impression i've got
[11:20:09] <PetefromTn_> shapeoshitty
[11:24:31] <malcom2073_> Damn, I wanted to design and make projects from *fake* materials
[11:32:59] <Rab> Real materials harder than ABS and softer than aluminum.
[11:35:23] <Bushman> inkscape you fool...
[11:35:49] <Bushman> it breaks some points into two or more during conversionf from object to path
[11:36:10] <Rab> The new Inkscape release includes gcodetools by default, apparently.
[11:36:15] <Bushman> and those points create tiny bumps on the new paths made from object's outline
[11:36:26] <Bushman> and those bumps cause the damn weird circles
[11:36:37] <Bushman> it does?
[11:36:44] <Bushman> oh.
[11:37:00] <Bushman> well, thank you Rab. i'll make sure to check them out ;]
[11:38:11] <Rab> Bushman, are you using gcodetools now?
[11:39:03] <maZer`-> hi all
[11:39:57] <maZer`-> i have a problem with some code :D Always i try to run the programm from tool change
[11:40:35] <Rab> The plugin is great, but it has some weird gotchas. For example paths have a beginning and an end in Inkscape, and gcodetools respects that when plotting machine coordinates. So if you want to ensure climb milling, for example, you sometimes have to flip the object in Inkscape so the path is going the right way.
[11:40:36] <maZer`-> i get a error message arc move cannot be reached
[11:45:55] <JT-Shop> what's the exact error message?
[11:48:44] <Tom_itx> wow. 10F today and 70 on friday
[11:59:08] <zeeshan|2> http://c4.staticflickr.com/8/7307/16402882906_3764cf2978_h.jpg
[11:59:28] <zeeshan|2> http://c4.staticflickr.com/8/7314/16242957797_6d61604d8d_b.jpg
[11:59:36] <zeeshan|2> yea i dont think im digging this car out
[11:59:42] <zeeshan|2> it'll stay there for the remaining winter :P
[12:00:56] <Tom_itx> looks like you're halfway there already
[12:03:30] <zeeshan|2> thats my beater
[12:03:33] <zeeshan|2> that i transport metal in
[12:03:37] <zeeshan|2> its not worth digging out
[12:03:37] <zeeshan|2> lol
[12:04:46] <zeeshan|2> i got a quote for that power drawbar
[12:04:51] <zeeshan|2> hydraulic cylinder repair
[12:04:54] <zeeshan|2> 1800$
[12:04:59] <zeeshan|2> yea i think im gonna pass.
[12:05:03] <Tom_itx> hah
[12:05:12] <zeeshan|2> i rather build a pneumatic system for that
[12:05:14] <Tom_itx> what about parts?
[12:05:22] <zeeshan|2> parts are about 500
[12:05:52] <Tom_itx> so fix it yourself
[12:06:42] <zeeshan|2> ill take it apart
[12:06:45] <zeeshan|2> and see whats up
[12:07:00] <Bushman> Rab: no. i'm using plain inscape and DXF2GCODE
[12:07:07] <Bushman> *inkscape
[12:07:14] <zeeshan|2> i realized that i can hook up the thing on test frame at the lab
[12:07:22] <zeeshan|2> and just pull on it and check for any displacement
[12:07:27] <zeeshan|2> and measure the force at that displacement
[12:07:30] <zeeshan|2> to "certify" it
[12:08:02] <PetefromTn_> jeez that is BS man...
[12:08:19] <zeeshan|2> i paid 1500 for the machine
[12:08:24] <zeeshan|2> im not gonna pay more than that one a hydraulic cylinder
[12:08:25] <zeeshan|2> lol
[12:08:29] <zeeshan|2> *on
[12:08:33] <PetefromTn_> I hear ya
[12:09:08] <PetefromTn_> there are certain bits on these more commercial machines where you have to eat it but I would be surprised if you could not repair that yourself.
[12:09:19] <zeeshan|2> yea likew a spindle
[12:09:20] <zeeshan|2> or a bearing
[12:10:06] <malcom2073_> Woo! The guy with my mill is back from vacation... middle of the week it should be warm enough to melt the snow which means I can go get it this week maybe :-D
[12:11:11] <PetefromTn_> what mill?
[12:11:18] <malcom2073_> a clausing/condia cnc
[12:11:20] <malcom2073_> kondia*
[12:11:26] <renesis> i just realized the spring loaded engraving tool i got would be great for holding wire brushes, sanding pads and polishing pads
[12:11:30] <PetefromTn_> pics?
[12:11:36] <malcom2073_> http://mikesshop.net/mill/
[12:11:39] * renesis gonna make things perty
[12:12:09] <renesis> fixer upper
[12:12:13] <PetefromTn_> renesis nice man which one did you get?
[12:12:29] <PetefromTn_> you probably can do some cool engine turning with that thing
[12:12:56] <malcom2073_> gonna need some work before it moves on its own heh
[12:12:59] <renesis> 2L 1/4" mini, i got it and couple conical bits, diamond tip scribe, and 4 flute endmill for $180
[12:13:15] <renesis> like half their retail for just the tool holder
[12:13:35] <renesis> http://www.2linc.com/engraving_mini_1-4.htm
[12:13:44] <PetefromTn_> malcom2073_ GOod luck with it man. looks like a pretty rigid knee mill.
[12:13:56] <renesis> i wanted the 3/8 shank one, but this is what ebay had, and this is working okay
[12:14:09] <malcom2073_> PetefromTn_: Yeah it's massive, should be pretty good for a knee mill
[12:14:10] <PetefromTn_> how did you get the deal?
[12:14:23] <renesis> ebay, sniped
[12:14:32] <PetefromTn_> new or used?
[12:14:38] <renesis> used but barely
[12:14:41] <PetefromTn_> aah
[12:14:49] <renesis> guy says he bought it and chucked it once, then sold the mill
[12:15:05] <PetefromTn_> is that thing ground internally? or is it something one could just machine?
[12:15:12] <renesis> is what it looked like, no chips, no oil stains when broken down, thing is clean
[12:15:24] <renesis> its a spring and two bearings
[12:15:36] <PetefromTn_> what kinda bearings?
[12:15:37] <renesis> most of the rotational load is on the bearings
[12:15:48] <renesis> like 3/16 balls
[12:15:57] <PetefromTn_> tiny balls heh
[12:16:14] <Rab> renesis, hot. I've been wanting to build a similar attachment for engine turning. That looks perfect.
[12:16:20] <renesis> its not very big, 3 krpm limited, they might be 1/4"
[12:16:20] <PetefromTn_> is it something you could take apart easily and snap some photos I would like to make one..
[12:16:36] <renesis> rab: yeah thats totally what i was thinking
[12:17:10] <renesis> petefromtn_: yeah, hmm sec i can do now i guess
[12:17:15] <renesis> school in a bit =\
[12:17:59] <PetefromTn_> OK thanks man
[12:20:46] <zeeshan|2> i called a local place
[12:20:51] <zeeshan|2> that apparently stocks the ott jakobs parts
[12:20:57] <zeeshan|2> they are like 25 min from me
[12:20:59] <zeeshan|2> lets see :P
[12:21:10] <zeeshan|2> i really dont want to run a damn manual drawbar if i dont have to!
[12:22:11] <renesis> one of the bearings flew away =(
[12:22:12] <Jymmm> zeeshan|2: Yes you do, you just don't know it yet =)
[12:22:44] <zeeshan|2> hey guys
[12:22:49] <zeeshan|2> why cant i legally buy windows 7 32bit anywhere?
[12:22:55] <zeeshan|2> i cant ran windows 8 on my dad's dental comps
[12:23:05] <zeeshan|2> *run
[12:23:12] <Jymmm> it's OEM,
[12:23:29] <PetefromTn_> renesis damn man how'd that happen?
[12:23:46] <Jymmm> zeeshan|2: http://www.amazon.com/Windows-Professional-System-Builder-Packaging/dp/B00H09BO2M
[12:23:53] <renesis> not enough hands, i thought they were deeper in, ill find it
[12:23:56] <renesis> uploading pics
[12:24:00] <zeeshan|2> Jymmm: can't download?
[12:25:13] <Tom_itx> why can't you run windoze ate?
[12:26:10] <PetefromTn_> LOL
[12:26:25] <Rab> zeeshan|2, 7 is EOL.
[12:26:29] <Jymmm> zeeshan|2: Not unlessy ou are a MSDN subscriber that I'm aware of
[12:26:35] <zeeshan|2> fak
[12:26:46] <zeeshan|2> Tom_itx: his digital xray stuff
[12:26:49] <zeeshan|2> isnt supported in 8
[12:26:50] <Jymmm> zeeshan|2: you doing a reinstall or something?
[12:26:51] <zeeshan|2> only 7 32-bit
[12:26:54] <zeeshan|2> yes
[12:26:58] <zeeshan|2> i have a key
[12:27:10] <zeeshan|2> but he lost the cd
[12:27:21] <Jymmm> zeeshan|2: where did he buy it from?
[12:27:28] <zeeshan|2> dell i think
[12:28:03] <Jymmm> zeeshan|2: call dell ask for a replacement media, they'll charge you for it, but then you'll have it.
[12:28:08] <renesis> weird imgur wont upload from my phone, filed needed to be copied
[12:28:14] <Jymmm> zeeshan|2: No BM's?
[12:28:19] <zeeshan|2> BM?
[12:28:19] <Jymmm> zeeshan|2: xp even?
[12:28:32] <PetefromTn_> bowel movements?
[12:28:39] <Jymmm> VM
[12:28:56] <Jymmm> XP virtual machine
[12:29:15] <renesis> petefromtn_: http://imgur.com/a/65yba
[12:29:15] <Jymmm> WINE ?
[12:30:07] <Jymmm> zeeshan|2: Here's a 400 virus infected version you can download for free... http://getintopc.com/softwares/operating-systems/windows-7-ultimate-free-download-iso-32-and-64-bit/
[12:30:20] <PetefromTn_> hehe
[12:30:26] <PetefromTn_> Hey thanks Renesis
[12:30:34] <PetefromTn_> looks like an interesting design
[12:30:38] <zeeshan|2> rofl Jymmm
[12:30:39] <zeeshan|2> hahaha
[12:31:20] <renesis> petefromtn_: theyre 5/32 bearings
[12:32:40] <PetefromTn_> nice does not appear to be a ground internal bore tho does it just use the bearings to slide up and down vertically I guess...to remain in position around the rotation and keep it vertical.
[12:33:17] <zeeshan|2> http://www.tigerdirect.ca/applications/SearchTools/item-details.asp?EdpNo=5213934&CatId=4622
[12:33:20] <renesis> yeah
[12:33:26] <zeeshan|2> can you install this on multiple comps :)
[12:33:38] <PetefromTn_> are the little ball bearings pockets on the shaft also spring loaded
[12:33:48] <renesis> nope
[12:34:02] <renesis> its pretty tight, not much play
[12:34:06] <PetefromTn_> interesting. how snug is the fit when you insert it
[12:34:11] <Jymmm> zeeshan|2: If you take the time to create yourself a XP VM, then you'll have a clean cnfige that you can copy/use anywhere, anytime, and even test intall without worries of virus, fucked up software, etc
[12:34:23] <zeeshan|2> ah
[12:35:10] <renesis> petefromtn_: bit of roational play, almost no play of the runout type
[12:35:23] <PetefromTn_> just ordered the 1/8x3" barstock for these parts I am gonna try vacuum fixturing today..
[12:35:30] <Jymmm> zeeshan|2: I have a BASE VM, and APPS VM. I can copy teh BASE VM 50 times if I like, no having to wait 3 hours to do an install.
[12:35:52] <zeeshan|2> Jymmm: kinda like ubuntu live cd!
[12:36:26] <renesis> well except you dont have to wipe out an os when its virtualized
[12:36:26] <Jymmm> zeeshan|2: Eh, kinda. you still need a OS installed, but I don't have to fuck around with M$ bs
[12:36:28] <PetefromTn_> renesis I am kind of surprised that the bore is not ground and the shaft is not also ground to fit nice and snug but that would make it cost a lot more I suppose... the bearings appear to only keep it from spinning.
[12:37:31] <renesis> it moves up and down nice, dunno how well itll wear
[12:37:35] <renesis> comes with three diff springs
[12:37:49] <PetefromTn_> thats a good idea too
[12:37:50] <renesis> its for engraving so fairly unloaded
[12:38:12] <PetefromTn_> nice man thanks for taking the time to share the pics and information
[12:38:23] <Tom_itx> what controls the depth of cut on it as it rotates around a part?
[12:38:32] <Tom_itx> just spring tension?
[12:38:40] <renesis> you just rapid in to your depth and go
[12:39:10] <renesis> they have recommended feeds/speeds, i did some stuff in sharpie covered white delrin, came out perfect
[12:39:37] <PetefromTn_> you can only spin to 3k with it tho?
[12:39:40] <renesis> tom_itx: by second pass, youre kind of at final depth
[12:39:51] <renesis> first pass it seems that speed/feed/spring control depth
[12:40:05] <Tom_itx> their example shows it moving up and down across a bar though
[12:40:07] <renesis> i havent tried to raster or spiral pockets with it yet
[12:40:10] <Tom_itx> what controls the depth there?
[12:40:17] <Tom_itx> your gcode?
[12:40:20] <renesis> the small one is only 3k
[12:40:24] <renesis> gcode
[12:40:29] <renesis> oh
[12:40:40] <Tom_itx> it doesn't show the whole tool moving up and down though
[12:40:49] <renesis> no i think in their example they keep z flat, so its just speed/feed/spring controlling depth
[12:40:53] <Tom_itx> so something must control the depth of cut
[12:41:09] <renesis> i saw some demo where there was good amount of tool movement
[12:41:22] <renesis> it has like .4" of z movement
[12:41:43] <renesis> and how well it climbs up a part is prob going to have a lot to do with your tool
[12:42:12] <renesis> they recommend 120 and 90 deg tools, i want to try with 30 and 15 deg tools
[12:42:30] <renesis> but the 90 deg tool looks like it be fine for engraving panels
[12:42:42] <renesis> thats mostly what i got it for
[12:42:56] <PetefromTn_> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hF3PXqrJlpQ
[12:43:16] <renesis> yeah that guy has maybe 3 vids
[12:43:30] <PetefromTn_> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gjVpr_u0PVo
[12:43:57] <Tom_itx> i don't recall the angle on my cutters
[12:44:33] <renesis> i have a bunch of 1/8" cutters with 30deg tips for PCB, sucks this thing takes 3/16 so gotta get some more
[12:44:38] <Tom_itx> they work pretty good though
[12:44:46] <renesis> 2L carbide prices are pretty okay for american tools
[12:45:34] <renesis> i was paying $20 for 30 degree conical half round and pyramid cutters, 1/8" with .005" tips
[12:46:54] <renesis> anyway, greatly varying depth is going to change spring tension so im sure it takes some tweaking
[12:47:27] <renesis> but not worrying about warped parts over 12" Y axis is nice
[12:48:38] <renesis> petefromtn_: 4 bearings instead of two would maybe be better, who knows
[12:49:08] <PetefromTn_> yeah maybe
[12:49:23] <renesis> top hole is just a vent
[12:49:25] <PetefromTn_> but they would have to be captured so they don't rub each other
[12:49:28] <renesis> bottom hole is set screw
[12:49:54] <renesis> yeah i mean just have same single ball pocket, but another one lower in the groove
[12:50:08] <renesis> so its located on two points in the groove instead of one
[12:50:15] <PetefromTn_> good idea
[12:50:31] <renesis> basically make the interface 4 bearings instead of two bearings and two cylinders
[12:51:26] <PetefromTn_> I would think just a brass or bronze snug fitting one with a sliding gound pin in a groove would work about as well and you could lubricate it. The only movement is the vertical movement it seems
[12:52:05] <PetefromTn_> wish I had a freakin' lathe here that worked HAHAHA
[12:53:00] <jdh> Ill sell you a 9x20
[12:53:37] <Jymmm> I'll sell you a 18x40 for half of whatever jdh sells you his for
[12:53:56] <PetefromTn_> hehe
[12:54:26] <jdh> half?
[12:54:32] <PetefromTn_> I am afraid ALL of my spare funds are going to be invested in building this standard modern CNC 14x40 lathe for the time being...
[12:54:45] <PetefromTn_> Jymmm what kinda 18x40 is it?
[12:55:25] <Jymmm> jdh: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tt8DoNerIPY
[12:58:37] <roycroft> i saw a 12x36 on cl for $2500 this weekend - i excited
[12:58:45] <roycroft> then i found out it's a vintage 1940s craftsman/atlas
[12:58:51] <roycroft> so it should have been $400
[12:59:05] <roycroft> i thought at $2500 it was a modern lathe
[13:06:46] <jdh> there is one semilocal for 750 or so
[13:07:57] <zeeshan|2> 2500 is a lot
[13:22:18] <CaptHindsight> zeeshan|2: since you missed it over the weekend http://photo.sf.co.ua/g/177/8.jpg
[13:22:29] <zeeshan|2> lol
[13:22:50] <FinboySlick> These better be very dark shades.
[13:23:15] <FinboySlick> Like dem Blues Brothers and stuff.
[13:23:42] <Rab> Could be pinhole lenses.
[13:23:45] <Rab> But probably not.
[13:35:33] <_methods> that pic was a real hit at work
[13:35:45] <_methods> i don't think the 'durs liked it so much
[13:40:46] <CaptHindsight> hehe
[13:40:46] <PetefromTn_> LOL yeah I had to save that one to HDD
[13:41:49] <_methods> poor weldurrs
[13:44:03] <zeeshan|2> honestly i dont find it funny
[13:44:08] <zeeshan|2> just shows you how poor they are there
[13:44:25] <zeeshan|2> if that was a hillbilly doing it, it would be funny :P
[13:44:48] <_methods> all welders are hillbilly's
[13:44:54] <_methods> its a bond they all share
[13:44:57] <zeeshan|2> haha
[13:45:08] <Jymmm> no teeth?
[13:45:14] <_methods> that too
[13:45:16] <zeeshan|2> Jymmm: no sleep w/ sister s
[13:45:25] <Jymmm> ah
[13:45:39] <Jymmm> I was going to say 14 and second child on the way
[13:45:47] <_methods> hahah
[13:46:13] <_methods> i wish i could have recorded those welders trying to figure out how to miter a 45
[13:46:18] <_methods> 3 welders
[13:46:22] <_methods> 1 45 deg angle
[13:46:32] <_methods> who will win
[13:54:28] <OneTimePad> miter weld, or just a joint?
[13:58:22] <James628> PCW: Are you online?
[13:58:45] <PCW> sort of
[14:01:13] <PetefromTn_> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RYLtL1R440E nice video on the 2L cutter
[14:01:19] <James628> PCW. Thanks :) I want to buy 9 pcs of 7i90 cards from webshop, but actual stock is zero. When you expect to restock?
[14:06:41] <_methods> yeah we got a couple of those 2L things here
[14:07:35] <PCW> a couple weeks for 7I90s
[14:08:06] <Jymmm> I was disappointed, I that it was to cut 2L Soda bottles cleanly
[14:08:20] <PetefromTn_> how do you like them?
[14:08:25] <Jymmm> s/that/thought/
[14:08:28] <_methods> everyone seems to like them
[14:08:34] <_methods> they don't work well for deep engraves
[14:09:05] <_methods> alot of our stuff that gets carc painted has to get engraved with a normal engraving tool
[14:09:24] <_methods> but if it's just getting alodined or powder coated we use those
[14:10:13] <_methods> and it actually comes with a little gcode program that spits out engraving gcode if you don't feel like firing up mastercam or somethign to just make a quick engraving program
[14:10:14] <PetefromTn_> do you find you use them on flat surfaces too or moreso just for radiused or varying Z height surfaces
[14:10:23] <_methods> we use them on flat stuff
[14:10:32] <_methods> a lot of sheet metal parts are uneven
[14:10:40] <_methods> so we have to use them instead of a normal engraving tool
[14:10:42] <PetefromTn_> sure
[14:11:15] <PetefromTn_> BRB gotta pick up my kids from school
[14:11:40] <Jymmm> PetefromTn_: Let em walk home, uphill, both ways
[14:11:45] <_methods> yeah i gotta stfu too and go put some pemserts in so i can get some parts to paint
[14:11:47] <James628> PCW: OK I will wait. Could you compile a custom firmware for 7i90HD ?
[14:15:20] <zeeshan|2> hm
[14:15:22] <zeeshan|2> what to xray
[14:16:06] <Jymmm> zeeshan|2: welds?
[14:16:14] <zeeshan|2> not strong enough
[14:16:17] <zeeshan|2> its for bones
[14:16:28] <zeeshan|2> ill try xraying a weld
[14:16:29] <Jymmm> halloween candy?
[14:16:30] <zeeshan|2> see what happens
[14:26:16] <PetefromTn_> Jymmm Actually they could walk home it is right around the corner literally.. I mean like less than a quarter mile. But I like to pick them up and take them home myself so I don't have to worry about them. plus it gives me a chance to enjoy my Bronco a bit hehe...
[14:29:20] <PCW> James628 : yes I can do that, its easier for me if you can make a pin_xxxx.vhd file of what you need
[14:36:24] <zeeshan|2> i finally found
[14:36:26] <zeeshan|2> skf parts
[14:36:30] <zeeshan|2> guess from where?
[14:36:40] <zeeshan|2> the canadian division that BUILDS skf lubricator systems
[14:36:41] <zeeshan|2> lol
[14:36:46] <zeeshan|2> how pathetic is that
[14:36:51] <zeeshan|2> that they use fittings that ONLY you can buy from them
[14:36:58] <zeeshan|2> ive LOOKED and looked
[14:37:15] <zeeshan|2> theres no such thing has a regular nylon hose that can handle 45 bar (650psi) working pressure
[14:37:22] <zeeshan|2> thats 1 mm thick
[14:37:25] <zeeshan|2> its some propietary shit
[14:56:26] <PetefromTn_> what are you talking about Zeeshan?
[14:57:51] <unfy> the cheap 2 pack of chinese e-stop switches arrived today. they're cheap alright :D
[15:00:11] <PetefromTn_> oh really..
[15:00:13] <PetefromTn_> that sucks
[15:00:18] <PetefromTn_> how bad are they?
[15:00:47] <zeeshan|2> PetefromTn_: the weird hydraulic fittings
[15:00:55] <zeeshan|2> for my cental lubrication
[15:01:37] <PetefromTn_> Oh for the way oilers etc.
[15:01:55] <PetefromTn_> I thought you were talking about your drawbar hydraulics or something
[15:07:57] <zeeshan|2> lol
[15:07:57] <zeeshan|2> :)
[15:08:05] <unfy> they uhm
[15:09:10] <unfy> screw + 2 plates for terminals. 4 terminals. 2 springs. maybe a third sping steel wire.
[15:09:29] <unfy> checking if terminal screws go into an insert or what
[15:09:42] <PetefromTn_> sounds just like the ones that came on my RF45 that I used in the CNC conversion.
[15:09:55] <PetefromTn_> they can be setup to work either closed or open as I recall.
[15:10:19] <unfy> nope. just bottom plate of each terminal is threaded.
[15:10:26] <PetefromTn_> overall is it going to work or is it such a piece of shit it will break the first time you slap it in an emergency...
[15:11:12] <unfy> i've slapped it a few times, it looks like it'll work that way. but... it is all pretty thin plastic imho
[15:11:20] <unfy> but, at $2 a piece... it is what you expect :D
[15:11:25] <PetefromTn_> figures
[15:11:59] <PetefromTn_> I will await mine to get here and I will let you know if it is the same type or crappier than I recall mine being. Thanks man.
[15:12:12] <unfy> there's a metal looking ring in the pic - that's plastic.
[15:14:02] <unfy> working on an imgur upload
[15:14:19] <Rab> Just make sure you wire for N.C. so if it doesn't work, you can just tear it off the machine.
[15:14:25] <unfy> http://i.imgur.com/mikuR6Y.jpg pen is there for refernce
[15:14:58] <PetefromTn_> LOL
[15:15:11] <unfy> well, the spring steel wire i thought war there, is actually a coil spring
[15:15:22] <PetefromTn_> hehe so the shiny plastic bit is actually plastic
[15:15:32] <unfy> yes, yes it is :D
[15:15:35] <PetefromTn_> fuckers
[15:15:48] <PetefromTn_> Rab that's hilarious man..
[15:16:17] <unfy> looking at it
[15:16:47] <PetefromTn_> the good news is that since I setup my homes and limits on the VMC I have only had to smack the Estop once or twice since I got the machine working.
[15:16:56] <unfy> it's open all the time, pressing it causes both sets of contactcs (orange and green) to short. maybe. i'm not too confident in how the switching mechanism works yet
[15:17:48] <PetefromTn_> the ones I have here you can actually switch if you take it apart
[15:18:05] <PetefromTn_> the top part of the switch comes away from the bottom part with some little clips
[15:18:21] <PetefromTn_> and you can flip the contact carrier over or reverse it as I recall.
[15:18:35] <PetefromTn_> but it has been awhile since I took it apart so I may be just delusional.
[15:18:56] <unfy> i lied
[15:19:00] <unfy> they're normally shorted
[15:19:16] <PetefromTn_> NC
[15:19:31] <unfy> it looks like you MIGHT be able to switch them
[15:19:32] <PetefromTn_> that's good
[15:20:00] <PetefromTn_> I already got the mail so if the UPS guy does not show it must be tomorrow before I can expect it.
[15:20:50] <PetefromTn_> http://www.joewoodworker.com/veneering/vacuumchucking.htm interesting but kinda caveman..
[15:21:43] <unfy> http://i.imgur.com/aruKo7m.jpg
[15:22:04] <unfy> ya might be able to switch the terminal around
[15:22:38] <PetefromTn_> cool
[15:22:41] <unfy> there's a lot of plastic everywhere and i'm a bit afraid of breaking it heh
[15:23:15] <unfy> got it apart
[15:23:16] <PetefromTn_> yeah the ones I have are the same way but these are rather decent plastic
[15:24:12] <PetefromTn_> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HOiBB3xEphk Pretty cool but I flinched each time it plunged into the glass LOL
[15:26:35] <Jymmm> PetefromTn_: Yeah, enjoy the bronco, screw enjoying time with the kids! lol
[15:26:52] <PetefromTn_> huh?
[15:27:05] <PetefromTn_> Can't I do both?
[15:27:42] <Jymmm> Nope... you must choose only one... <jeopardy theme song begins to play>
[15:28:00] <PetefromTn_> Ok then anyone wanna buy a nice clean bronco?
[15:28:04] <unfy> last 2 pics uploading
[15:28:19] <Jymmm> $10
[15:28:33] <PetefromTn_> ya cut me deep man...Deep
[15:28:50] <Jymmm> what year?
[15:28:55] <PetefromTn_> so whats with the 18x40 lathe man?
[15:29:00] <PetefromTn_> Oh 1993
[15:29:09] <Jymmm> OH, $2 then
[15:29:20] <Jymmm> 18x40 = JOKE
[15:29:24] <PetefromTn_> Big spender
[15:29:25] <unfy> http://i.imgur.com/TiPa87I.jpg
[15:29:44] <PetefromTn_> yup that is almost exactly the same as mine
[15:29:48] <Jymmm> PetefromTn_: $2 = scrap value. I wouldn't want a post 1970 bronco
[15:30:10] <PetefromTn_> I'm sorry
[15:30:21] <PetefromTn_> I LOVE the big 79 models
[15:30:24] <Jymmm> Just pref is all
[15:30:34] <PetefromTn_> but finding one that is not a total POS is near impossible anymore
[15:30:50] <Jymmm> post 70 is when all the smog va lines crap started
[15:30:57] <Jymmm> vac*
[15:31:00] <unfy> 5v regulators arrived (smd), e-stop switches, and some more micro drill bits for pcb stuff
[15:31:14] <Jymmm> PetefromTn_: Yeah, I know.
[15:31:27] <unfy> electronics workbench is starting to come together too \o/
[15:32:00] <PetefromTn_> I love the comments on that shot glass engraving.... How did you program this? .......CAREUFLLY!!
[15:32:59] <Jymmm> http://aboutcolonblank.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/05/measure-twice-cut-once.jpg
[15:33:14] <Jymmm> measure once, cut twice
[15:33:19] <PetefromTn_> Yeah I would love a big block 1979 model but if it is even close to being a nice truck people ask a damn fortune for them.. I get compliments on mine all the time tho..
[15:33:33] <PetefromTn_> TWIC priceless
[15:33:47] <PetefromTn_> maybe the board was just not long enough
[15:34:20] <Jymmm> Are you trying to justify dumbassery?
[15:35:05] <PetefromTn_> no just sayin' hehe
[15:35:15] <Jymmm> I'll take that as a yes.
[15:35:16] <Jymmm> =)
[15:35:20] <unfy> ROFL
[15:35:22] <unfy> i love it!
[15:35:29] <unfy> (measure/cut pic)
[15:36:13] <Jymmm> PetefromTn_: Do your kids iike fruit loops?
[15:36:33] <Jymmm> PetefromTn_: http://www.gmofreeusa.org/food-testing/kelloggs/kelloggs-froot-loops/
[15:36:35] <Tom_itx> of course they like their dad!
[15:37:09] <Jymmm> Tom_itx: We're talking PetefromTn_ kids, not any/your offspring
[15:37:13] <PetefromTn_> naah they are more the cocoa crispies type...
[15:37:32] <Jymmm> It that Kellogs ?
[15:37:34] <PetefromTn_> Tom_itx You're all heart man...;)
[15:37:39] <Tom_itx> hehe
[15:37:44] <Jymmm> Tom_itx++
[15:38:00] <PetefromTn_> I love those frosted mini wheats things
[15:38:05] <CaptHindsight> well who wants weeds growing in their Fruit Loops!?
[15:38:24] <Jymmm> CaptHindsight: MILKweed?
[15:38:52] <unfy> keep the weeds out of my frosted mini wheat bush garden
[15:38:55] <PetefromTn_> WTF is GMO?
[15:39:04] <Jymmm> Which is actually a very good medicinal plant btw.
[15:39:05] <unfy> genetically modified organism
[15:39:15] <PetefromTn_> Oh hell no..
[15:39:20] <PetefromTn_> seriously
[15:39:23] <Jymmm> yes
[15:39:28] <PetefromTn_> no more fruit loops for us
[15:39:35] <PetefromTn_> no soup for you...
[15:39:37] <PetefromTn_> hehe
[15:39:39] <Jymmm> PetefromTn_: Say THANK YOU MONSANTO
[15:39:45] <PetefromTn_> fuckrs
[15:39:51] <unfy> far beyond Mendel and his orchids...
[15:40:15] <unfy> or pea plants or whatever
[15:40:18] <Jymmm> Monsanto, the makers of Mustard gas, Agent, orange, roundup, and GMO cordn/soy
[15:40:19] <CaptHindsight> Monsanto makes M$ look like good guys
[15:40:36] <Jymmm> CaptHindsight: understatement
[15:40:51] <PetefromTn_> Captainunderstatement?
[15:40:59] <unfy> >_>
[15:41:30] <Jymmm> PetefromTn_: REalize that it's ALL kollogs products, not just fruitloops, those were jsut what they tested.
[15:41:35] <PetefromTn_> well I think I got this vacuum fixture programmed here finally..
[15:41:50] <CaptHindsight> http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/collideascape/2014/07/22/mike-adams-monsanto-nazis-disturbing-article/
[15:42:39] <PetefromTn_> it's getting where a man can't even eat his friggin' fruit loops without worrying about dyin' Jeez...
[15:42:52] <Tom_itx> eat fruit loops and you'll end up looking like that welder
[15:43:07] <PetefromTn_> NNNOOOOOOOOOO!!
[15:43:22] <PetefromTn_> :D>
[15:46:51] <Jymmm> OH noes, GMO cheerios (Most infants are given them) http://gmoinside.org/cheerios/
[15:47:42] <PetefromTn_> any of you ever heard of walter facemills?
[15:47:57] <CaptHindsight> http://imagebin.ca/v/1qJ9rEUoXB6V good for the book cover
[15:48:07] <Jymmm> Is that anything like Betty Buttups?
[15:49:43] <PetefromTn_> Shit....six more weeks of winter...THANKS PHIL!!
[15:52:58] <CaptHindsight> 12+ inches of snow yesterday follower by 10F today
[15:53:12] <Tom_itx> we had the 10F with no snow
[15:54:21] <Tom_itx> supposed to be close to 70 by the end of the week
[15:54:25] <Tom_itx> go figure
[15:54:36] <CaptHindsight> nice, we might break 32F
[15:55:23] <CaptHindsight> and we often get snow here after Cubs opening day
[15:55:51] <Tom_itx> one year we had straight line winds strong enough to bend over turnpike signs
[15:56:08] <Loetmichel> *NIIICE* finally i can thrash that "(§/$&("§&%("$&%(§$/ Speedport W700V router... got myself a Fritzbox 7270 V3 that was spare at the company... ;-)
[15:59:40] <PetefromTn_> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dRB-woVjlFY Coconut sized balls coupled with chipmunk sized brains LOL....
[16:00:37] <Tom_itx> Alvin was pretty smart...
[16:01:15] <PetefromTn_> well yeah......for a chipmunk?
[16:02:02] <_methods> is that the one where he goes into all the cardboard boxes
[16:02:46] <_methods> yep
[16:04:51] <CaptHindsight> "A stuntman has made aviation history by becoming the first skydiver in the world to land without the use of a parachute." They forgot to add "and survived"
[16:05:01] <ju_emb> Hi all,
[16:05:07] <PetefromTn_> yup
[16:06:17] <ju_emb> new Chinese spindle just arrived but it has a BEST VFD and a Great manual in chinese language
[16:07:20] <ju_emb> someone here knows some about that VFD or knows where to find a manual in english
[16:07:55] <PetefromTn_> F4030.B27.085.Z05.02 Has anyone here heard of Walter facemills? This one is the part number for one a guy is selling online? He said it is USA made but I found this website looks pretty well chinese no?
[16:08:31] <ju_emb> the VFD say's FC300-B4-2.2G/T2
[16:08:40] <unfy> i wonder if there's some really soft metal that ya could fill in a PCB socket hole with, then drill through it. not to act as a via, but so that top and bottom of the pcb would be conductive to the pin etc hm
[16:08:56] <unfy> (a way to do eyelets without buying the $200-$500 in tools)
[16:09:01] <PetefromTn_> http://www.e-walter.com/milling/F4030.htm
[16:09:02] <ju_emb> somehow I'm to stupid to get some useful from google about that VFD
[16:10:46] <PetefromTn_> http://www.walter-tools.com/en-us/tools/standard_products/milling/overview/face_milling/xtra_tec_hpc_mill/Pages/default.aspx
[16:13:51] <tjb1> JT-Shop: ??
[16:17:30] <CaptHindsight> http://linuxgizmos.com/real-time-enabled-sitara-soc-shows-up-on-a-com/ $42 @ 1k pcs
[16:18:05] <CaptHindsight> might be fast enough for machinekit and a display at the same time
[16:19:32] <CaptHindsight> http://www.ti.com/product/AM4379/samplebuy the price isn't too bad
[16:21:19] <CaptHindsight> SGX530 Graphics Engine Intel uses the SGX 540 in its Medfield platform
[16:22:13] <Deejay> gn8
[16:23:20] <PetefromTn_> GN8 DEEJAY!!
[16:24:09] <Deejay> PetefromTn_ :)
[16:24:45] <PetefromTn_> :D
[16:40:54] <_methods> PetefromTn_: walter is not chinese
[16:40:56] <_methods> german
[16:41:08] <_methods> they are part of sandvik now
[16:41:48] <PetefromTn_> apparently valenite?
[16:41:55] <_methods> no it's walter
[16:42:02] <PetefromTn_> just never heard them referred to as walter
[16:42:09] <PetefromTn_> not according to that link?
[16:42:17] <_methods> they make REALLY good drills at high D
[16:42:23] <_methods> 10xd +
[16:42:37] <PetefromTn_> Shit's spensive..
[16:42:39] <_methods> very hard to beat
[16:42:42] <_methods> very expensive
[16:42:58] <_methods> 6mm drill 60+mm long
[16:42:58] <PetefromTn_> how much would you say that facemill costs new?
[16:43:07] <_methods> that mill new is like $450+
[16:43:18] <Tom_shop> valenite is walter?
[16:43:24] <PetefromTn_> then I guess a brand new one at $250.00 is a great deal then.
[16:43:27] <_methods> it's walters version of the high feed cutter like the ajxu that zeeshan|2 has
[16:43:34] <_methods> yeah it's a good deal
[16:43:38] <_methods> but it's a high feed cutter
[16:43:40] <Tom_shop> we used valenite tooling
[16:43:48] <_methods> hold on let me double check before i go spouting lies though
[16:44:03] <Tom_shop> not cheap but good
[16:44:13] <PetefromTn_> I have used valenite cutters too and always thought they were nice but never heard them called walter
[16:44:25] <Tom_shop> probably the parent company
[16:44:33] <Tom_shop> all our holders were valenite
[16:44:35] <_methods> http://www.walter-tools.com/en-us/tools/standard_products/milling/overview/face_milling/xtra_tec_hpc_mill/pages/default.aspx
[16:44:47] <_methods> well i thought sandvik bought walter out
[16:44:57] <_methods> but it looks like valenite has them now or something
[16:45:16] <_methods> the walter titex drills are incredible
[16:45:38] <_methods> but i'd read the datasheet on that facemill
[16:45:48] <Tom_shop> we used some of their insert drills for cutting TI
[16:46:26] <PetefromTn_> what do you guys pay per foot for Ti round stock say about 1.5"
[16:46:59] <Tom_itx> that was always supplied by the client
[16:47:08] <Tom_itx> and we didn't do much round Ti
[16:47:55] <Tom_itx> they did bring us a skid of ~24 x 12 x 12 blocks of it once
[16:48:06] <PetefromTn_> one of my customers has a lathe part they want me to make from Ti that is not real critically dimensioned and they are waiting for me to get the lathe operational.
[16:48:08] <Tom_itx> we had to hog some parts outa it
[16:48:25] <_methods> http://www.walter-tools.com/SiteCollectionDocuments/downloads/global/manuals/en-gb/handbook-tts-milling-2010-en.pdf
[16:48:28] <_methods> page 38
[16:48:33] <_methods> is the feed data for the 4030
[16:50:33] <PetefromTn_> sounds like it has a metric arbor
[16:50:47] <PetefromTn_> Don't have anything but 3/4 arbor bases here
[16:50:54] <PetefromTn_> can't afford the cutter anyways damnit
[16:50:55] <_methods> and the max depth of cut is 1.5mm
[16:50:58] <PetefromTn_> so hell with it
[16:50:59] <_methods> so it is their high feed cutter
[16:51:30] <PetefromTn_> BRB
[16:51:30] <_methods> it does good but i think the mits ajxu is better
[16:51:42] <_methods> i couldnt take cuts with the walter like i could with the mits
[16:51:55] <_methods> i would take 2mm DOC with mits no sweat
[16:52:06] <_methods> the walter if i tried that didn't work so well
[16:52:15] <_methods> i've stalled the spindle with mits before hehe
[16:52:33] <Tom_itx> that's just as hard on cutters
[16:52:48] <_methods> oh its not nice to the cutter or the machine
[16:52:58] <_methods> but the place i worked at was all for it
[16:53:15] <_methods> if i wasn't at 90% spindle load all the time someone was askin me questions
[17:09:05] <furrywolf> went to the one remaining local electronics store today... not much different from last time I was there. everything annoyingly expensive, and they still use paper receipts to hide that they stay in business by laundering drug money.
[17:12:49] <Loetmichel> furrywolf: and with "customers" as you it will stay that way
[17:13:08] <Loetmichel> because they wont have the money to go cheaper and/or clean
[17:29:48] <Bushman> made this today:
[17:29:57] <Bushman> http://i.imgur.com/8RHgy5Nl.jpg
[17:30:04] <Bushman> it's about 100mm wide
[17:31:03] <PetefromTn_> is that an engraving filled in or what?
[17:33:08] <Loetmichel> filled engravings look awesome
[17:33:36] <Loetmichel> http://www.cyrom.org/palbum/main.php?g2_itemId=4979&g2_imageViewsIndex=1 <- especially when milled deep into the perspex
[17:33:51] <JT-Shop> PetefromTn_, you see my furnace?
[17:34:21] <PetefromTn_> no not really
[17:34:31] <JT-Shop> http://gnipsel.com/images/casting/
[17:35:12] <PetefromTn_> nice man.. how big is that container?
[17:35:25] <PetefromTn_> and what do you think you can melt in it?
[17:36:40] <PetefromTn_> Grrr Freakin' ebay has been sending me a lot of emails with "Hey check it out we discounted our price on something you viewed"
[17:36:46] <PetefromTn_> that would be more than fine
[17:36:57] <PetefromTn_> except for the fact that I Already bought one from someone else damnit
[17:38:45] <Tom_itx> JT-Shop, that's one bigass can of soup!
[17:40:01] <JT-Shop> I can fit an A8 crucible in it so I can melt up to 17lbs of brass/bronze and 5lbs of aluminum
[17:40:09] <JT-Shop> popcorn tin
[17:40:36] <Tom_itx> yeah i figured that or a trashcan
[17:40:41] <PetefromTn_> nice
[17:40:50] <PetefromTn_> what do you plan to do with it?
[17:41:02] <Tom_itx> make castings?
[17:41:06] <JT-Shop> lost pla casting
[17:41:23] <PetefromTn_> lost PLA? lost wax?
[17:41:33] <JT-Shop> reprap print the part then make a mold from the part and cast it
[17:41:35] <Tom_itx> will the PLA melt out that quick?
[17:41:43] <JT-Shop> similar to lost was
[17:41:45] <JT-Shop> x
[17:41:47] <JT-Shop> wax
[17:41:56] <PetefromTn_> interesting
[17:42:08] <PetefromTn_> got any particular parts you want to make?
[17:42:20] <JT-Shop> some parts for the spyder
[17:43:08] <JT-Shop> http://www.alloyavenue.com/vb/showthread.php?10742-lost-PLA-outboard-carburetor-casting-%28picture-heavy-%29
[17:43:30] <JT-Shop> the burner is dead simple to make and really rocks
[17:43:42] <furrywolf> I need a larger ultrasonic cleaner. I love mine, but it's just not big enough.
[17:45:20] <furrywolf> plastic carb? that's just wrong.
[17:46:18] <PetefromTn_> how much do you figure you have in the furnace total
[17:47:37] <furrywolf> my approach probably would have been to cut an adapter plate to bolt another brand carb on.
[17:51:38] <JT-Shop> $90 worth of castable refractory cement, the rest I had laying about
[17:52:19] <furrywolf> I've never seen plastic used for a structual carb component...
[17:52:21] <JT-Shop> tjb1, you around?
[17:52:36] <JT-Shop> I've seen plastic carbs
[17:53:19] <unfy> I was in the middle of building an electric furnace - but alas... ._.
[17:53:26] <tjb1> JT-Shop: probably
[17:53:48] <JT-Shop> but your not sure?
[17:53:52] <tjb1> no
[17:54:14] <JT-Shop> is this something I want to add to the order from reprapdiscount http://www.reprapdiscount.com/home/34-full-graphic-smart-lcd-controller.html
[17:54:43] <_methods> i never use mine
[17:54:46] <furrywolf> I haven't seen one, and hope I never do. :)
[17:55:01] <tjb1> JT-Shop: good if you want to print without computer
[17:55:03] <_methods> it's nice if you want to print without your computer hooked up though
[17:55:04] <tjb1> they are cheaper on ebay
[17:55:10] <tjb1> $20 something on ebay
[17:55:20] <tjb1> wont work on a delta, causes a lot of stutter on mine
[17:55:47] <furrywolf> plastic is not a suitable material for things like that! most/all plastics eventually crack in the presence of gasoline... hell, even plastic floats in carbs often fail... combined with heat also causing plastic to dry and crack, and the potential to leak gasoline on a hot engine on failure...
[17:56:04] <unfy> furnace looks nice, jt
[17:56:46] <unfy> don't really see any cracks in the refactory, etc :D
[17:57:25] <JT-Shop> I plan on having the computer hooked up
[17:57:28] <unfy> i should prolly just break down and build something similar to "get stuff done in the mean time"
[17:57:33] <JT-Shop> thanks for the help
[17:58:07] <zeeshan|2> http://www.canadacomputers.com/product_info.php?cPath=7_1203_1157&item_id=072952
[17:58:10] <zeeshan|2> i got a couple of these
[17:58:12] <zeeshan|2> wow theyre TINY
[17:58:41] <zeeshan|2> im suprised
[17:58:44] <zeeshan|2> it can load apps pretty quick
[17:59:29] <furrywolf> I have a laptop not much larger than a cd jewel case... but it's ancient. heh.
[17:59:44] <zeeshan|2> i thought celerons were crap processors?
[18:00:04] <zeeshan|2> celerons have come a long way since i remember them
[18:00:06] <zeeshan|2> they werent even dual core
[18:00:07] <zeeshan|2> :P
[18:00:21] <unfy> the days since the 300/300A are long gone heh
[18:00:31] <furrywolf> celerons are normal processors that failed functional tests, but enough parts passed that they were able to disable the defective bits and sell them anyway... or at least that's what they used to be.
[18:00:32] <zeeshan|2> 22 nm chip
[18:00:49] <zeeshan|2> furrywolf: exactly!
[18:01:01] <zeeshan|2> the 180 nm core
[18:01:03] <zeeshan|2> you remember ?
[18:01:07] <zeeshan|2> or even the 90 nm core celeron d
[18:01:08] <PCW> the 847s/1007s are like little I3's
[18:01:09] <zeeshan|2> slow as shit
[18:01:20] <_methods> wow they're finally figuring out the MH-53 is a dangerous piece of shit
[18:01:33] <furrywolf> so they're just as fast as normal processors, as long as your workload doesn't need the disabled bits. if your program doesn't cache well, you might not notice half the cache being disabled, etc.
[18:01:47] <zeeshan|2> i got these for my dad's dental office
[18:01:59] <_methods> whenever we used to a chopper infil with -53's we always requested 2x as many as we needed because half of them would break down lol
[18:01:59] <zeeshan|2> theyre literally runnign a scheduling and xray acquriing software
[18:02:01] <zeeshan|2> and charting
[18:02:09] <zeeshan|2> its really not super resource critical
[18:02:16] <zeeshan|2> like say 1080p movies!
[18:02:24] <zeeshan|2> but this plays 1080p fine
[18:02:30] <PCW> No so any more, Intel just uses the Celreon name for low end processors
[18:02:49] <zeeshan|2> im gonna pick up that motherbaord you recommended pcw
[18:02:52] <zeeshan|2> w/ the celeron
[18:02:59] <zeeshan|2> 1900 asrock
[18:03:14] <PCW> (the Baytrail Atoms were renamed Celerons also)
[18:04:12] <zeeshan|2> it looks the j1900
[18:04:19] <zeeshan|2> is a couple steps up from the 1007u
[18:04:24] <zeeshan|2> dual core vs quad core
[18:04:32] <zeeshan|2> higher base freq
[18:04:37] <PCW> Yeah, a bit lower power also
[18:04:40] <zeeshan|2> both are 22nm core
[18:05:06] <PCW> different architecture
[18:05:28] <furrywolf> the question is whether it was intended to be dual core, or if it's a quad core with two disabled. you should grind the top off and let us know. :P
[18:05:29] <zeeshan|2> you think adding a fan would be a good idea
[18:05:30] <PCW> J1900 is a Baytrail Atom, 1007 is a baby I3
[18:05:41] <zeeshan|2> i noticed it has it has no cooling fan
[18:05:44] <zeeshan|2> just a big headink
[18:05:47] <zeeshan|2> *heatsink
[18:05:54] <PCW> I have J1800 and it barely gets warm
[18:06:05] <zeeshan|2> i just hope it bolts on
[18:06:07] <zeeshan|2> it looks very tiny.
[18:06:15] <zeeshan|2> ill gain some major space in the enclosure
[18:06:47] <PCW> They are pretty snappy for ~10W
[18:07:19] <PCW> run circles around the old Atoms
[18:07:29] <zeeshan|2> hehe
[18:07:34] <zeeshan|2> damn it new egg is sold out
[18:08:12] <furrywolf> fans suck. if it stays cool with passive cooling, keep it that way.
[18:08:28] <zeeshan|2> http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813157513
[18:08:31] <zeeshan|2> no parallel port :(
[18:08:51] <zeeshan|2> but i guess i dont need one.
[18:09:10] <PetefromTn_> DIE Parallel port!!
[18:09:17] <zeeshan|2> SUPER PORT!!!!!!!!!1
[18:09:36] <zeeshan|2> i need a serialk port though :(
[18:09:40] <PCW> It has a parallel port header (but no PCI slot)
[18:10:04] <PetefromTn_> oh really I thought it was PCI for your mesa cards the ticket!
[18:10:35] <PCW> it does have a single serial port (on a header)
[18:10:36] <PetefromTn_> so I can't use the 5i25 in it then?
[18:10:49] <zeeshan|2> nop
[18:10:58] <PCW> 6I25
[18:11:08] <PCW> 7I92
[18:11:33] <furrywolf> so, I don't care about sports, but a friend is a big seahawks fan. the type that has decals all over his van. how should I tortue him?
[18:11:37] <PetefromTn_> jeez man I thought I had this thing licked with the combo I have for the lathe damnit
[18:11:37] <zeeshan|2> http://www.newegg.ca/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813157565
[18:11:39] <zeeshan|2> more expensive
[18:11:41] <zeeshan|2> but this has pci
[18:11:58] <zeeshan|2> but its also bigger :/
[18:12:23] <renesis> asrock is shit
[18:12:26] <zeeshan|2> i see a db9 port too
[18:12:27] <PetefromTn_> Sheeeeeit
[18:12:51] <_methods> PCW: do you give irc discounts hehe
[18:12:59] <zeeshan|2> yes we need irc discounts!
[18:13:08] <zeeshan|2> i need a 7i76 for the lathe! :P
[18:13:11] <PCW> http://www.newegg.ca/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813128698&cm_re=j1900-_-13-128-698-_-Product
[18:13:12] <PCW> has PCI and is small
[18:13:14] <furrywolf> my plan is to use an ethernet board, and not need to worry about ports. :)
[18:13:26] <renesis> gigabyte > asrock
[18:13:29] <zeeshan|2> and 2 serial ports too!
[18:13:33] <zeeshan|2> serial ports are big deal :)
[18:13:42] <zeeshan|2> whats up with the dual rj45
[18:14:02] <renesis> server/firewall
[18:14:14] <zeeshan|2> http://www.canadacomputers.com/product_info.php?cPath=26_706&item_id=070511
[18:14:20] <zeeshan|2> i have it locally cheaper! :)
[18:14:25] <zeeshan|2> but no stock
[18:14:49] <renesis> top right might be parport breakout header
[18:14:58] <PetefromTn_> Oh yeah but is it one you have done all your fancy testing on pcw?
[18:14:58] * furrywolf thinks a 50% irc discount is a wonderful idea
[18:15:12] <PCW> The pretty much all have LPT ports
[18:15:27] <renesis> some dont have the header populated =\
[18:15:30] <PetefromTn_> I am always up for a good deal but honestly Mesa cards are really cheap for what you are getting..
[18:15:33] <zeeshan|2> soime genious realized
[18:15:36] <renesis> and its solder filled
[18:15:36] <zeeshan|2> the parallel port and serial port
[18:15:37] <PCW> Fancy testing as a real pentium (G3258)
[18:15:40] <zeeshan|2> dont need to be abandoned!
[18:15:50] <unfy> celery j1900's have put some horrible numbers on the wiki for latency test
[18:15:56] <renesis> business stuff has serial/parport stuff a lot
[18:16:04] <zeeshan|2> yea
[18:16:07] <renesis> every work dell ive had has parport/serial
[18:16:08] <zeeshan|2> its so easy to communicate over it
[18:16:11] <furrywolf> pete: the board of his I want costs twice what I spent for the mill itself.
[18:16:18] <zeeshan|2> but comms over uart
[18:16:20] <PCW> I get around 20 usec on the J1800
[18:16:23] <zeeshan|2> using linux is pretty easy now
[18:17:04] <zeeshan|2> im getting like 29000 with the athlon xp
[18:17:09] <zeeshan|2> nanosec
[18:17:18] <zeeshan|2> but its slow as hell
[18:17:28] <renesis> what chipset/mobo?
[18:17:32] <zeeshan|2> a7v400mx
[18:17:38] <renesis> asus?
[18:17:41] <zeeshan|2> yes
[18:17:42] <PetefromTn_> then you should have bought a better mill I guess LOL
[18:17:47] <zeeshan|2> haha PetefromTn_
[18:17:50] <PCW> If you want fast but still cheap a G3258 is great
[18:17:51] <unfy> an amd 2800 system has been latency test for over a month now and is 10822/12874 as it's numbers
[18:17:53] <zeeshan|2> its so annoying trying to load a pdf
[18:17:59] <zeeshan|2> when trying to take snapshots too
[18:18:02] <zeeshan|2> lags like no tomorrow
[18:18:03] <furrywolf> I got something like 9us on my laptop, even hammering the cpu and video... as long as I don't initialize a hardware accelerated video, or do anything that triggers power management, like switch to battery.
[18:18:34] <renesis> i had that older atom board, intel mobo, was under 10us latency
[18:18:44] <renesis> but it died when it was living at a woodshop at work
[18:18:56] <PCW> Yes and about 100 usec actual latency
[18:19:09] <renesis> the atom?
[18:19:18] <furrywolf> initializing a hardware accelerated video gives a 32us spike, and power management a 120us spike. heh.
[18:19:20] <PCW> they are _dreadful_
[18:19:40] <renesis> dunno it worked, latency test never showed above 10us
[18:19:51] <PCW> plot some function times on a Atom and move the mouse
[18:19:53] <renesis> this was an older one, dont remember the model
[18:20:41] <zeeshan|2> http://www.newegg.ca/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813128738
[18:20:44] <zeeshan|2> how is the amd v ersion?
[18:20:45] <renesis> i remember specifically looking for an older model atom, i dont remember the specifics anymore, this was like maybe 4 years ago
[18:20:49] <PCW> They are all terrible the latency test only shows the dispatch latency which is great unless you actually do something
[18:21:03] <furrywolf> some power management functions on mine are BAD, on the order of 1ms...
[18:21:25] <renesis> dunno, this was with firefox and flash playing and pdf opening and lots of glxgears
[18:21:44] <renesis> shit got slow but latency didnt go up, which is whats supposed to happen, no?
[18:22:06] <PCW> Yeah but no contentions because the latency test doesn't do anything
[18:22:18] <PetefromTn_> anyone know how to dismantle these cheapass chinese magnetic base blocks?
[18:22:20] <renesis> well then how is it useful?
[18:22:22] <renesis> =(
[18:22:54] <PCW> toggle a parallel port pin and look with a scope
[18:23:05] <renesis> anyway, i dont think micro stepping would have worked at 100us jitter?
[18:23:13] <renesis> well, its dead now
[18:23:26] <renesis> bricked, different psu, drives, ram, never came back
[18:23:37] <furrywolf> see, that's the funny thing about that... "works" is often "works 99.9% of the time, except when you're just finishing a very expensive part." :)
[18:24:02] <renesis> dunno i did PCB and shiw with it, and it cant go deep so cycles are long
[18:24:02] <PetefromTn_> I wonder if I switched the Cincinatti to a different mini ITX board if I would be able to get rid of the very occasional real time errors I get..
[18:24:08] <furrywolf> I've noticed my sherline always loses steps only on the most expensive parts, too.
[18:25:01] <unfy> murphy's such a bastard :D
[18:25:06] <renesis> anyway, i got some random pc now, its like 20usec jitter
[18:25:22] <PCW> Yes, if you have a Atom D525 D510 945GCLF etc those can barely manage a 1KHZ servo thread
[18:25:24] <renesis> i only half step now, works fine
[18:25:53] <furrywolf> my motors are a LOT smoother at 10 usteps than half or full stepping.
[18:25:58] <PetefromTn_> what are the odds of getting one and having a real simple plug and play conversion?
[18:26:18] <furrywolf> pete: pretty good, unless you had to do manual setup of any drivers.
[18:26:46] <PCW> almost anything should work (if you want fast use a G3258 and a H81 MB)
[18:27:26] <PCW> Those work up to a 7KHZ or so servo thread
[18:27:44] <furrywolf> with half or full stepping, every step is loud and results in a very audible ringing as it oscillates (spring (magnetic) + mass = oscillation), while it's smooth at 10 usteps.
[18:27:47] <PetefromTn_> what pisses me off the most is I bought this damn board because everyone her recommended it sigh...
[18:28:05] <PCW> Dont you find it slow?
[18:28:16] <PetefromTn_> in what way?
[18:28:25] <PetefromTn_> I don't do anything with it except run the machine
[18:28:37] <renesis> yeah i checked newegg history, was a D510
[18:28:55] <furrywolf> I think I have my laptop set to run at 17us step thread, no noticable slowdown for multitasking.
[18:28:56] <PCW> After using the J1800 or better still the G3258, the Atom really drags at everything
[18:28:56] <renesis> so youre saying it wouldnt work? because it worked, heh
[18:29:58] <renesis> well, until it bricked
[18:30:15] <PCW> they work but they are really really slow so if you try to run something like classic ladder even a 1KHz servo thread will bomb out
[18:31:14] <renesis> this is open loop step/dir, 8000 steps/inch, does like 60ipm
[18:31:19] <PCW> they also have small caches and caching plays a large roll in latency
[18:33:29] <renesis> maybe its a problem if youre doing like 500 ipm at same scale, shrug
[18:34:53] <PCW> Its not that so much as its PetefromTn's issue (real time errors on the servo thread even at just 1 KHz)
[18:35:40] <renesis> yeah not something that happens on my machine thing
[18:36:07] <renesis> so if ~10us is actually 100us in operation, how do you do a test to get the 100us to happen?
[18:36:19] <renesis> just watch halscope while cycling?
[18:37:03] <PetefromTn_> Freakin' great...
[18:37:20] <renesis> heh, halscope have a phosphor or eye diagram mode?
[18:37:32] <PetefromTn_> not like I don't have other things I gotta do to the damn machine now I gotta replace the board too...
[18:37:52] <PCW> Take a look at the jitter in some functions (all functions have a time parameter) note that it is in CPU cycles
[18:38:13] <PCW> you have TMAX
[18:38:53] <PetefromTn_> why man it is obvious if I am getting real time errors there is something wrong anyway right?
[18:39:16] <furrywolf> anyone want a box of 18v and 9.6v bosch cordless tools? about to craigslist them.
[18:39:22] <Connor> PetefromTn_: Replace what?
[18:39:30] <PCW> PetefromTn_ if the occasional real time error dont bother you, they are not a real issue
[18:39:30] <PetefromTn_> main board
[18:39:36] <Connor> Why?
[18:39:48] <PetefromTn_> yeah but we are going to be moving to a toolchanger control here soon
[18:39:53] <renesis> slow system is slow
[18:39:57] <PetefromTn_> and you said things like classicladder will fudge it
[18:40:01] <zeeshan|2> i get some realtime errors
[18:40:04] <zeeshan|2> when i first start up linuxcnc
[18:40:06] <zeeshan|2> and press machine power
[18:40:11] <zeeshan|2> i clear them and everything is fine
[18:40:13] <zeeshan|2> what sup wit hthat :)
[18:40:14] <PetefromTn_> yeah I get that too...
[18:40:19] <zeeshan|2> i figured it was normal |:P
[18:40:23] <renesis> i think it says itll only pop up the message once?
[18:40:28] <Connor> That's the ONLY time I ever get Real Time errors.
[18:40:32] <Connor> renesis: No, It's not.
[18:40:39] <PCW> startup errors may be a caching thing
[18:40:44] <zeeshan|2> caching in what
[18:40:46] <zeeshan|2> cpu?
[18:40:53] <PCW> yes
[18:40:56] <renesis> then yeah, same, every once in awhile ill get those on startup, but not often
[18:41:01] <Tom_itx> or the state of something is such that it can't execute until it's out of estop?
[18:41:09] <furrywolf> it's not a startup error... it's a continous error, but it only tells you once.
[18:41:09] <Tom_itx> or homed?
[18:41:27] <furrywolf> after it shows the message once, it disables it, so you don't get one every few us.
[18:41:31] <renesis> furrywolf: right i think it says that in the error popup
[18:41:53] <zeeshan|2> well it goes away after tstart up
[18:41:58] <zeeshan|2> so i didnt reeally bring it up.
[18:42:06] <zeeshan|2> but glad to see others getting em too :P
[18:42:17] <renesis> i dont get it every time
[18:42:17] <PCW> Yes it is a startup error (and probably caching related)
[18:42:21] <Tom_itx> i usually get none
[18:42:24] <Connor> I've had RT errors when I had the base thread too low..
[18:42:41] <Tom_itx> i think i get some if i try to do something on the pendant before it's out of estop
[18:42:43] <PetefromTn_> I usually get them around startup and then every once in awhile one will pop up usually if the machine has sat idle for a few hours...
[18:42:48] <Connor> Only other time I've had RT errors is when I was using my USB WiFi
[18:42:57] <zeeshan|2> J1900 will fix this? :)
[18:42:59] <Tom_itx> but mine arent RT errors
[18:43:12] <Tom_itx> yeah throw new hardware at it..
[18:43:15] <Connor> Or, as PetefromTn_ just said, if it's sets for a very long time.. which probably is some sort of power management issue.
[18:43:22] <zeeshan|2> new hardware fixes all!
[18:43:28] <zeeshan|2> if pcw is running j1800
[18:43:31] <zeeshan|2> j1900 should work!
[18:44:05] <Connor> and PetefromTn_ remeber, these boards they're talking about, wasn't around when you got your main board...
[18:44:10] <PCW> These are startup errors, not related to the error reporting
[18:44:17] <PetefromTn_> well if it does fix it and I don't have to worry about the toolchanger operation screwing up it is worth it but shit
[18:44:44] <PCW> its easy to verify this by looking at the tmax numbers of the functions
[18:44:49] <Connor> I don't think the toolchanger stuff will impact it at all.
[18:44:57] <PetefromTn_> It is hard enough for me to get the cash together for all of this stuff let alone having to buy shit twice...
[18:45:06] <PCW> classics ladder does
[18:45:15] <Connor> PCW Not using Classic ladder..
[18:45:25] <Connor> I wrote it all using remap and O code
[18:46:12] <PCW> if its all userland code it should have little effect
[18:46:45] <Connor> As far as I know it is..
[18:46:45] <PCW> Jut my experience that at 1KHZ, Atom D510s,D525s etc are close to the edge
[18:48:09] <Connor> PetefromTn_: As soon as my house is put back together and all.. we'll hook up to get stuff going again.
[18:48:45] <PetefromTn_> Connor Yeah man I know don't worry about my shite take care of your house and wife...
[18:48:47] <Connor> I've been sick since Friday.. started off as a soar throat, followed by a bit of congestion and cough.
[18:49:03] <Connor> and a bit of a wheeze too.
[18:49:12] <Connor> no fever though..
[18:51:03] <Connor> My Kitchen cabinets came in Saturday at 8am. They're sitting in my Carport.. Not able to do anything with them yet because of being sick... Still need to remove the old wall board and wall cabinets and put up new stuff...
[18:51:05] <Connor> ugg.
[18:51:14] <zeeshan|2> out of the RV yet?
[18:51:18] <Connor> Yes.
[18:51:21] <Connor> But, no kitchen.
[18:51:23] <zeeshan|2> did you miss your toilet?
[18:51:42] <PetefromTn_> LOL I would come by and help you but I sure as hell don't need to get sick
[18:51:50] <Connor> Oh yea. the damn squaty potty in the RV is for the birds.
[18:51:54] <zeeshan|2> the first thing i miss when im out away from a long ass time
[18:51:56] <zeeshan|2> is my toilet
[18:51:58] <zeeshan|2> and then my bed
[18:52:02] <zeeshan|2> :)
[18:52:15] <Connor> PetefromTn_: I hear that. I'll let you know when it's all clear.
[18:52:22] <PetefromTn_> zeeshan|2 Jeez man that is more information than we needed LOL
[18:52:26] <zeeshan|2> hahaha
[18:53:00] * furrywolf needs a house and a wife
[18:53:36] <Connor> furrywolf: Sometimes they're not all that they're cracked up to be.
[18:53:46] <Connor> just spent $30k on fixing my house...
[18:53:47] <_methods> be careful what you wish for
[18:56:37] <furrywolf> that suggests your house is of substantially higher quality than what I'd be happy with. heh.
[18:56:41] * furrywolf isn't picky
[19:01:49] <furrywolf> http://images.craigslist.org/00R0R_69rhktAyAAm_600x450.jpg I just posted that with "make me any offer that doesn't involve my needing to put them back in my storage unit." what mean, median, and standard deviation do you think the offers will be? :)
[19:02:13] * furrywolf is going to go with $10, $20, and $5
[19:02:17] <XXCoder> $1 + shipping
[19:02:39] <furrywolf> see, it's people like you that are why I figure the mean will be much less than the median... :P
[19:02:46] <XXCoder> lol
[19:03:05] <XXCoder> mean is mean ;)
[19:09:10] <furrywolf> I'd be happy with $20. I just want them gone.
[19:09:16] <furrywolf> none of the batteries work
[19:09:50] <malcom2073_> Those craftsman?
[19:09:59] <furrywolf> Bosch
[19:10:09] <malcom2073_> You anywhere near York, PA? :P
[19:10:27] <furrywolf> no
[19:10:32] <furrywolf> northern california
[19:10:38] <malcom2073_> Shame, my dad has bosch stuff
[19:10:54] <renesis> what are you selling?
[19:11:17] <renesis> how much for the circular saw and how far from sac valley are you?
[19:11:32] <renesis> why the fuck do you have so many how many arms do you have
[19:11:37] <furrywolf> cheap, and I'm 5 hours northwest.
[19:11:45] <renesis> oh shit
[19:11:51] <renesis> that just sounds like an awesome drive
[19:11:59] <furrywolf> because when the batteries die, it's cheaper to get more used tools that come with batteries than to buy the batteries...
[19:12:06] <renesis> no real driving roads around here, im having canyon withdrawal
[19:12:17] <renesis> furrywolf: the saw is cordless?
[19:12:20] <furrywolf> yes
[19:12:26] <furrywolf> I do not have a battery or charger for the saw.
[19:12:28] <renesis> how long does it usually last you?
[19:12:35] <renesis> well wtf furrywolf
[19:12:49] <renesis> do you have batteries for it? and whats wrong with it
[19:12:54] <furrywolf> I bought it thinking it would work with my other tools, but it seems to take a _different_ 18v bosch battery than all the other bosch 18v batteries....
[19:13:14] <renesis> the others are li-ion or ni-cad?
[19:13:21] <furrywolf> all nicd, all toasted.
[19:13:29] <furrywolf> if you're asking these questions, you don't want them. :P
[19:13:32] <renesis> saw might be li-ion packs
[19:13:45] <furrywolf> they're old, and only useful for someone who already has the same tools and needs more.
[19:13:48] <renesis> well yeah thats the direction its going
[19:15:03] <renesis> sucks, would have been a nice drive
[19:15:25] <furrywolf> if you drive up from sac just to get the saw, you can have it free. :P
[19:16:04] <Connor> tear'm apart and remove the motors and gears and sell'm on ebay
[19:16:09] <Connor> you'll get more money.
[19:16:10] <renesis> chico, -90 min from sac, but no battery and charger itd mostly be to say hi to you
[19:16:12] <furrywolf> i5 to 20 to 101 is the quickest way, i5 to 299 is second quickest, i5 to 36 to 101 is sometimes interesting... and then there's the back roads. see, all of those are highways, and have TWO LANES.... :P
[19:16:27] <renesis> 299 is the twisty one?
[19:16:33] <furrywolf> oh, if you're in chico, you have a choice of 36 or 299 then...
[19:16:34] <renesis> or 36
[19:16:44] <furrywolf> that's a trick question, right?
[19:17:06] <furrywolf> 299 is the twisty one that's usually passable by semis, 36 is the one they always go off the inside of corners on. :P
[19:17:07] <renesis> so theyre both canyons through the cascades
[19:17:08] <renesis> nice
[19:17:12] <PetefromTn_> I used to live there..
[19:17:18] <renesis> ive driven one of them, like maybe 4 years ago
[19:17:31] <furrywolf> did you go over 55mph at any point?
[19:17:31] <PetefromTn_> was stationed in the US Coast Guard Air Station in Sacramento
[19:17:41] <renesis> no i dont think so
[19:17:45] <PetefromTn_> on Maclellan Air Force Base...
[19:17:50] <renesis> also lots of blind turns after hills
[19:17:52] <renesis> good road
[19:17:53] <furrywolf> lol
[19:18:08] <furrywolf> now, those are the freeways... just wait until you experience the roads. :P
[19:18:24] <renesis> to your place?
[19:18:37] <furrywolf> no, getting from i5 to here
[19:18:42] <renesis> i have a sportish coupe, not lowered tho
[19:19:18] <renesis> unless there are massive potholes its prob fine
[19:19:26] <furrywolf> yeah, you just ruled out about 2/3rds of the roads.
[19:19:47] <renesis> after the 36/299?
[19:20:19] <furrywolf> heh, someone I knew ripped an a-arm off their car in a pothole on one of the roads... the one that connects hyampom to burnt ranch. the potholes are about 9" deep.
[19:20:29] <PetefromTn_> we used to ride out Sportbikes up into the mountains and down Highway 49 etc... some nice roads out there.
[19:20:38] <PetefromTn_> our
[19:20:54] <renesis> well youre not supposed to put the wheeles in the hole
[19:21:19] <PetefromTn_> up in cool and in folsom area
[19:21:28] <renesis> i dunno which we took, the 36 or 299, both look likely
[19:21:45] <furrywolf> that road also has one of the best bridges in the area. it's a railroad flatcar. at one point someone welded railings to the side, but they'd long since broken off, leaving nothing but bits of jagged angle iron sticking up every couple feet, perfectly placed to rip the sidewall out of any tire that strays near them.
[19:21:55] <renesis> i dont think we hit redding so prob the 36
[19:22:18] <renesis> why would my sidewall go near them
[19:22:31] <furrywolf> someone carefully painted signs proclaiming it to be "phlattyre bridge" and placed them on either side.
[19:22:31] <renesis> man now i want to go to see this shit
[19:22:45] <furrywolf> because it's under 8ft wide, and many vehicles are close to 8ft wide? :P
[19:22:59] <renesis> i dont think my car is, heh
[19:23:36] <furrywolf> http://fw.bushytails.net/bridgesign.jpg last time I was there, someone had knocked the signs over... I can't find any pics of the bridge right now.
[19:23:39] <renesis> but yeah, 200 miles tow prob not in my budget now
[19:23:57] <furrywolf> http://fw.bushytails.net/bridgeview01.jpg and that's the view from the bridge
[19:24:00] <renesis> background is gorgeous
[19:24:35] <renesis> i would do it if the saw actually worked
[19:26:19] <renesis> furrywolf: find something better to sell me so i can justify the drive
[19:26:34] <renesis> then i can at least pretend its not totally irrresponsible
[19:27:11] <renesis> only road looks interesting around here is the one out to lassen, and it doesnt get interesting looking for 20 miles, and even then not a big deal
[19:27:38] <XXCoder> heh I don't have to go out my home to see interesting view
[19:27:47] <XXCoder> Gonna love pudget sound, looks amazing.
[19:27:51] <renesis> theres a road to cohasset thats kind of cool, but cohasset comes too soon and after the town its just a gravel logging road
[19:28:03] <renesis> oh man <3 puget sound
[19:28:19] <renesis> out on a pier, water 15ft deep, and i could see clear jellyfish at the bottom
[19:28:22] <furrywolf> if you're in chico, the drive out to susanville is quite nice, as is the one around the lake up there
[19:28:28] <renesis> to a socal kid thats mind blowing
[19:29:27] <renesis> furrywolf: on the 70?
[19:30:01] <furrywolf> I've only done it on the 36, not the 70. 70 runs into 36 somewhere.
[19:30:10] <furrywolf> I was coming from the coast, not from chico. heh.
[19:30:31] <renesis> 32 hits the 36, thats the road looks interesting
[19:31:21] <furrywolf> when in susanville, you can take 139 up around the lake until you hit 299, or if you want a very different change in scenerey, 395 out to reno.
[19:31:27] <renesis> like 100 miles from here to susanville
[19:31:31] <renesis> wtf is there in susanville?
[19:31:53] <furrywolf> not a lot.
[19:31:54] <furrywolf> lol
[19:32:12] <renesis> still redwoods or is it salt lakes by then?
[19:33:13] <furrywolf> some treed areas, some high desert.
[19:33:17] <renesis> sat maps says its like the edge of both
[19:33:42] <renesis> been to lassen? which is more interesting?
[19:33:46] <XXCoder> renesis: pudget sound? it's not a lake. it's inlet sea
[19:33:48] <renesis> i just want some place to drive to
[19:34:01] <XXCoder> which is basically ocean. you can boat all way to ocean proper
[19:34:02] <renesis> xxcoder: i know thats why the clarity is mind blowing
[19:34:10] <Tom_itx> zeeshan|2, i don't see how they get reverse from this thing
[19:34:10] <XXCoder> indeed
[19:34:14] <renesis> right but its almost freshwater from what i understand
[19:34:18] <renesis> because so many rivers
[19:34:33] <furrywolf> haven't been to lassen other than driving in the general area
[19:34:45] <XXCoder> yeah it's great place, you ever seen defence point?
[19:34:59] <renesis> is that the park?
[19:35:04] <XXCoder> yeah
[19:35:11] <renesis> we went but didnt see much
[19:35:24] <renesis> more like we passed by it
[19:35:35] <XXCoder> too bad really. trails abound there
[19:35:46] <renesis> i had a friend who lived in tacoma, would go for a few weeks at a time
[19:36:03] <renesis> we hiked around in some other park by the sound
[19:36:23] <XXCoder> talking about parks, ever visited ape cave?
[19:36:42] <XXCoder> my suggestion, bring 2 led flashlight per person, and wear strudy boots
[19:36:48] <renesis> ha, k
[19:36:51] <renesis> and no never been
[19:37:13] <furrywolf> any good 4x4 trails where you can get a convoy of trucks stuck and rangers don't show up and complain?
[19:37:25] <XXCoder> heh once had to give my crappy led flashlight to 8 person group with dead large lamp and fading regular flashlight'
[19:37:36] <XXCoder> they was still in least .5 mile from nearest exit
[19:37:38] <renesis> how deep is the cave?
[19:37:53] <furrywolf> yeah, I always tend to be a lot more prepared than most people too...
[19:37:57] <XXCoder> hmm forgot but pretty deep
[19:38:03] <XXCoder> its lava tube
[19:38:08] <renesis> >.5mi is pretty nuts
[19:38:18] <furrywolf> if you want the historic touch, I have a pile of 1940s mining lamps. :P
[19:38:21] <XXCoder> total I think mile+?
[19:38:36] <furrywolf> 10 hours of reasonable brightness, belt battery pack with a wire to the cap lamp.
[19:38:38] <XXCoder> they was heading from lowest point to midpoint
[19:38:45] <XXCoder> nice
[19:39:00] <renesis> oh i thought you means gas lamps
[19:39:08] <renesis> you have the original batteries?
[19:39:10] <furrywolf> 1940s, not 1840s.
[19:39:11] <furrywolf> yes.
[19:39:18] <XXCoder> it still works?
[19:39:45] <furrywolf> some do, some don't. I only have one that doesn't leak, and it has a bad cell... two cells at 12Ah, one at 3Ah. might come back with a good overcharge.
[19:40:06] <renesis> just use a modern pack?
[19:40:12] <XXCoder> probably can salvage bad batteries for working cells
[19:40:20] <furrywolf> renesis: or just use a modern light completely.
[19:40:24] <XXCoder> you could recover drill packs that way too
[19:40:37] <renesis> dunno old lamp seems kinda neat
[19:40:47] <renesis> furrywolf: what other random old shit do you have?
[19:40:59] <furrywolf> the problem is the cell construction... the cell cases are stainless, with a rubber liner. over the 70 years since they were made, the rubber liners have developed leaks.
[19:41:09] <furrywolf> I need to figure out how to mold new cell liners.
[19:41:21] <XXCoder> hmm yeah bit hard
[19:41:42] <renesis> furrywolf: you can get two part silicone and just swirl around maybe
[19:41:55] <renesis> you can make more dildos with the left over
[19:42:07] <furrywolf> I bought a box of them once that seem toasted for other reasons... I think they were exposed to acidic water. ate the nickel hydroxide.
[19:42:08] <XXCoder> dildos all way down
[19:42:25] <furrywolf> silicone isn't resistant to strong bases, and will fail. I think the originals are natural rubber.
[19:42:34] <furrywolf> electrolyte is 33% KOH in water.
[19:42:49] <XXCoder> can you even buy all rubber nowdays?
[19:42:52] <renesis> latex?
[19:42:58] <XXCoder> everything seem to be plastic where rubber used to be
[19:43:17] <furrywolf> that's another option... blow mold polypropylene.
[19:43:22] <renesis> xxcoder: buna-n, butyl, i think its expensive compared to plastic
[19:43:27] <XXCoder> it is
[19:43:31] <XXCoder> trees
[19:43:51] <furrywolf> the couple surviving cell liners I have feel like inner tube rubber, kinda
[19:44:16] <renesis> which is as vanilla as rubber gets
[19:44:40] <renesis> heh, blow molding little bottles maybe
[19:45:17] <furrywolf> I have some older lamps that used nickel plated steel cases, and those are leak-free, but I don't have enough parts to put any of them together.
[19:45:27] <renesis> http://www.ecigexpress.com/diy-e-liquid/mixing-tools-safety/e-liquid-bottles/childproof-bottles/10ml-childproof-dropper-bottle-pet.html
[19:45:39] <renesis> heat and blow
[19:45:41] <furrywolf> that is, a nickel plated steel cell inside a stainless case, instead of a rubber lined stainless cell.
[19:46:20] <renesis> or you could just get new batteries
[19:46:34] <XXCoder> http://www.amazon.com/Natural-Rubber-Durometer-Smooth-Backing/dp/B00CCGWCB0
[19:46:38] <furrywolf> I also have some newer lamps that stuck two cells in a single case... haven't managed to dismantle one far enough to see how they did it. need to make a special tool.
[19:47:04] <furrywolf> http://www.bisbeeminingandminerals.com/#!electric-cap-lamp/c50e I have all three of the ones on the left side of the top image on that page.
[19:47:34] <renesis> ha wow those are way bigger than i thought
[19:47:39] <renesis> tho guess they would be
[19:47:47] <renesis> nice connectors
[19:47:53] <XXCoder> 10 hours with ancient bulb I wonder how long with leds
[19:49:01] <furrywolf> from my measurements, they seem to be 12Ah cells. roughly 1.2V/cell, three cells. roughly 43 watt-hours.
[19:49:05] <furrywolf> probably close to 45
[19:49:07] <furrywolf> closer
[19:49:35] <renesis> nice
[19:49:46] <furrywolf> none of my spec sheets give details of the cap lamp cells, only the larger cells that were sold not as part of a light.
[19:50:06] <furrywolf> actually, I might have one that gives specs of the F-2 cells in the model P lamps, but I'm not going to dig it up to check. :P
[19:50:43] <renesis> furrywolf: how far are you from the beach
[19:51:03] <renesis> i miss the ocean
[19:51:22] <renesis> like 4 hours from here
[19:51:26] <furrywolf> the grey plastic ones have four cells... I've never done any capacity measurements. I have three of them, one I never tested, one that ran for about a half hour using the original electrolyte (!), one that reads open circuit. the last is the one I'm trying to dismantle, but it's a very low-priority project, so I've never machined the special tool it needs.
[19:51:33] <furrywolf> 15 minutes
[19:51:41] <furrywolf> maybe 20
[19:52:32] <renesis> def in the sexier section of n cali
[19:53:07] <furrywolf> bbl, work
[19:53:15] <renesis> laters
[19:53:26] <renesis> i should go do homework
[19:53:32] * renesis facedesk
[19:54:08] <XXCoder> got any dog? lol
[20:01:51] <PetefromTn_> http://i.imgur.com/y8H01ss.jpg http://i.imgur.com/aK7vSih.jpg About got my custom vacuum hold down fixture made for these parts...!! Needs a bit of deburring and I gotta tap it from the bottom for the 90 degree push lock tube fittings.
[20:04:02] <PetefromTn_> Now I gotta machine a little gauge block for the new Vacuum gauge and ball valve. Hopefully they will get here tomorrow along with the gasket materials and I can do a test run.
[20:04:44] <XXCoder> bronze?
[20:06:32] <PetefromTn_> huh? Oh no it is 6061 aluminum my phone settings are off still from when I tried to take video of the LED Edge lit sign I made...
[20:06:47] <PetefromTn_> I had to darken it a LOT so the light did not wash out the picture
[20:06:48] <XXCoder> lol ok.
[20:10:52] <OneTimePad> PetefromTn_ what are these for?
[20:10:52] <jdh> run a chamfer pass
[20:12:54] <PetefromTn_> These are for a part I designed for a local customer that runs a race tuning shop for the Mazda RX7 guys. I have an order for 50 right now and they said they will most certainly be ordering more when they sell out so I am going to make this nice vacuum hold down fixture so I can easily setup atop the vise for them in the future.
[20:14:31] <XXCoder> nice!!
[20:14:43] <XXCoder> hope it turns into realiable part job
[20:15:39] <PetefromTn_> yeah I suppose I could make a champfer pass but I don't really want to mess with it. I will probably just run the fly cutter back over the whole thing lightly to clean it up and then run the deburring tool around the pocets so I can ensure the walls are all the way up for the gasket
[20:16:24] <PetefromTn_> yeah I hope so too but it is not like it's a big money maker. If they ordered a thousand maybe but that is probably not gonna happen. Still it is nice to have repeat work even if it is small stuff.
[20:17:29] <XXCoder> yeah
[20:20:15] <OneTimePad> totes
[20:20:23] <OneTimePad> those are shop-builders
[20:20:30] <OneTimePad> you in JC?
[20:21:03] <PetefromTn_> are you talking to me? I don't understand your question.
[20:21:10] <OneTimePad> yes
[20:21:18] <OneTimePad> I guess not, nevermind
[20:21:21] <PetefromTn_> what's JC?
[20:21:28] <OneTimePad> johnson city
[20:21:50] <PetefromTn_> no I am in Maryville, Tennessee...Why are you in Tn?
[20:22:15] <OneTimePad> no
[20:22:36] <OneTimePad> I just know most of the east coast thru appalachia-berks
[20:23:56] <PetefromTn_> berks?
[20:46:23] <Tom_itx> how can i create an 'inhibit' pin between cw and ccw spindle signals?
[20:46:36] <Tom_itx> it must inhibit before switching directions
[20:47:01] <Tom_itx> otherwise a DPDT relay would work
[20:47:16] <PetefromTn_> can you just put a delay in there somehow?
[20:48:01] <Tom_itx> the control needs an inhibit so it can 'reset' and start with a rampup to avoid overvoltage etc to the control
[20:48:49] <Tom_itx> i have a tiny relay i can use for it, i just need a signal between directions
[20:51:17] <OneTimePad> Berkshire mtns
[21:08:48] <pcw_home> the delay component and some gating (and2 maybe) is probably appropriate
[21:10:13] <Tom_itx> it basically shuts down the driver while the relays flip then the direction takes effect
[21:11:03] <Tom_itx> the off time delay is settable
[21:12:57] <pcw_home> well there are at least 2 time delay component in HAL that could be used for this (delay and oneshot)
[21:13:06] <Tom_L> http://www.galco.com/techdoc/kb/ic/kbic_im.pdf
[21:13:22] <Tom_itx> no, i don't need the delay... the control can do that
[21:13:28] <Tom_itx> i just need a trigger for it
[21:14:11] <pcw_home> well you may need a delay to determine the length of the inhibit signal
[21:14:43] <Tom_itx> i can flip the relays during the inhibit i think
[21:14:51] <Tom_itx> so it shouldn't matter too much
[21:15:11] <Tom_itx> the inhibit starts a ramp cycle on the control
[21:15:27] <Tom_itx> at least that's my understanding of it
[21:19:58] <pcw_home> I does sound like that but it still needs some time to work
[21:21:22] <Tom_itx> yeah, i'm gonna do some testing with the board before i hook it to the driver
[21:21:56] <Tom_itx> what i was thinking was to use the driver delay to give the relays time to flip
[21:22:27] <Tom_itx> so a one shot would work if it was long enough to pulse the inhibit
[21:22:51] <Tom_itx> i tried it manually and all it needs is a short pulse
[21:23:35] <Tom_itx> i've got some little hamlin relays i can use to isolate that
[21:25:07] <pcw_home> the oneshot comp can be rigged to trigger on both edges so maybe it could be triggered by motion.spindle-forward or some such
[21:25:54] <Tom_L> it would probably have to trigger on motion.spindle-forward and reverse
[21:26:02] <Tom_L> but reverse may not be used alot
[21:26:07] <Tom_L> just for completeness...
[21:26:35] <Tom_L> unless you were going to 'peck' a thread
[21:26:59] <furrywolf> I have no plans to add software-controlled spindle direction to my mill any time soon. too much work, and I hopefully won't need rigid tapping.
[21:27:19] <Tom_L> http://tom-itx.no-ip.biz:81/~webpage/cnc/PDF/
[21:27:29] <Tom_L> there are both the control manuals
[21:27:40] <Tom_L> apparently the link broke to one just after i downloaded it
[21:27:58] <Tom_L> pretty sure mine is the older one
[21:28:26] <Tom_L> http://www.cnc4pc.com/Store/osc/product_info.php?cPath=25&products_id=58
[21:28:33] <Tom_L> interfacing the C6 board to it
[21:28:49] <pcw_home> I was thinking motion.spindle-forward would get cleared as soon as motion.spindle-reverse is set so it triggers on start of forward and reverse
[21:29:05] <Tom_L> ahh, i need to read up on those
[21:29:11] <Tom_L> or watch them in hal
[21:29:38] <pcw_home> (but also triggers on spindle off which you may not want)
[21:29:50] <Tom_L> it wouldn't hurt anything
[21:29:58] <Tom_L> it just freewheels it
[21:30:24] <Tom_L> i'm not sure how lcnc will react to that
[21:30:33] <Tom_L> with the encoder and trying to control it
[21:33:02] <Tom_L> i think i'll get the speed control working then worry with reverse
[21:33:31] <pcw_home> Yeah one misstep at a time :-)
[21:33:49] <Tom_L> it says it want's a 25khz freq on pwm
[21:34:18] <Tom_L> what's default on pwmgen?
[21:36:09] <Tom_L> it would be easier if this thing had dpdt relays instead of spdt
[21:37:11] <pcw_home> Hmm... dont know if there is a default
[21:37:56] <Connor> Tom_L don't use C6, use the C41, I had issues with C6
[21:38:06] <Tom_L> it was free
[21:38:09] <Tom_L> :)
[21:38:10] <Connor> Ah
[21:38:16] <Tom_L> i'll give it a try
[21:38:40] <PetefromTn_> Woohoo..
[21:38:47] <PetefromTn_> I just finished the fixture
[21:38:49] <Tom_L> what's different on the C41?
[21:38:50] <PetefromTn_> got it all deburred
[21:39:00] <PetefromTn_> and installed the vacuum lines
[21:39:06] <PetefromTn_> just to see how it would work
[21:39:20] <PetefromTn_> I scotch brited some of the material I have for the parts
[21:39:32] <PetefromTn_> and plugged in the vacuum pump
[21:39:44] <PetefromTn_> even without a freakin' gasket in the slot
[21:39:53] <PetefromTn_> the parts hold down pretty good just metal to metal
[21:40:21] <PetefromTn_> I am hoping to get the gasket materials from Mcmaster carr tomorrow
[21:40:27] <PetefromTn_> and hopefully the gauge too
[21:41:04] <PetefromTn_> I don't think I could mill with the parts held down without the gaskets but it is pretty solid surprisingly.
[21:41:49] <Tom_itx> Connor, what makes the C41 better?
[21:42:02] <PetefromTn_> I am anxious to see how it holds with the gaskets in place.
[21:50:34] <furrywolf> bah. no one on craigslist wants my tools yet.
[21:59:40] <XXCoder> PetefromTn_: nice work
[22:01:43] <Connor> Tom_ITX Uses PWM vs funky frequency C6 uses.. Never could get it to work right
[22:02:07] <Connor> PetefromTn_: Picture of you fixture?
[22:02:47] <furrywolf> that sounds dirty. you're not getting any pics of my fixt!
[22:02:48] <Tom_itx> what pwm freq does the C41 use?
[22:03:51] <Connor> Recommended 200Hz
[22:04:34] <furrywolf> anyone have some large ultracaps they want to sell? maxwell 2600F or similar...
[22:06:00] <XXCoder> you mean uF?
[22:06:08] <XXCoder> because 2600F is... large.
[22:06:53] <furrywolf> no, I mean F.
[22:06:58] <XXCoder> cool
[22:08:00] <furrywolf> http://www.maxwell.com/products/ultracapacitors/threaded-weldable-cells
[22:08:15] <XXCoder> dang
[22:08:22] <XXCoder> how large is it?
[22:08:25] <XXCoder> physical size
[22:10:14] <XXCoder> 2.36" cyl
[22:10:21] <XXCoder> pretty large but nice
[22:10:24] <furrywolf> http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-p-1I-Gc8njk/UT907Hciv6I/AAAAAAAABZA/FI_OSQGGqlU/s1600/6+Super+Capacitor+Vs+Car+Battery+www.2600f-supercapacitor.blogspot.com.jpg that big. (random google image result)
[22:10:36] <XXCoder> furrywolf: you ever heard of graphete capactor?
[22:10:42] <furrywolf> as you said, 2600F is large. :P
[22:10:47] <XXCoder> yeah
[22:10:47] <furrywolf> graphete? no
[22:10:55] <XXCoder> its made from graphite
[22:11:08] <XXCoder> it has much larger power capactity
[22:11:25] <XXCoder> theres this guy making graphete capactors that can act as battery
[22:11:35] <XXCoder> more power. but dunno if true
[22:11:54] <XXCoder> http://www.extremetech.com/extreme/122763-graphene-supercapacitors-are-20-times-as-powerful-can-be-made-with-a-dvd-burner
[22:12:47] * furrywolf treats all new energy storage claims with skepticism until they're for sale at major electronics distributors.
[22:12:52] <XXCoder> indeed
[22:13:04] <Valen> I think you may mean graphene?
[22:13:11] <Valen> which is not graphite as such
[22:13:13] <XXCoder> theres so many magic stuff that never reach market
[22:13:33] <Valen> because most of the time its the last 10% that makes it impossible
[22:13:34] <XXCoder> Valen: yes and I didn't say graphite (besides it being raw matter to make graphene
[22:13:57] <Valen> (14:50:23) XXCoder: its made from graphite
[22:14:14] <XXCoder> exactly what I meant. mde FROM graphite
[22:14:21] <XXCoder> read earlier
[22:16:12] <XXCoder> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K7E5NSFJIYU
[22:17:06] <XXCoder> Valen: kinda like alum oxide is processed into alum by electric method. we cant say alum oxide is same, but we can say alum was made from it.
[22:17:23] * furrywolf notes alum is not aluminum
[22:17:40] <XXCoder> I usually short it because I suck on spelling lol
[22:18:15] <furrywolf> no matter how you spell it, half the people will say you're spelling it wrong. :P
[22:18:25] <XXCoder> exactly that too LOL
[22:18:37] <roycroft> it's aluminium
[22:18:38] <roycroft> simple
[22:18:42] <roycroft> or Al
[22:18:47] <roycroft> if you really want to avoid controversy
[22:18:52] <XXCoder> roycroft: better!
[22:18:53] <XXCoder> Al
[22:19:51] * furrywolf notes that much of the population spells it with one i.
[22:20:11] <roycroft> if you'll be my bodyguard i can be your long lost pal
[22:20:23] <roycroft> i can call you betty, and betty if you call me you can call me Al
[22:20:37] <roycroft> much of the population are wrong
[22:20:45] <roycroft> and not just on this issue
[22:20:49] <XXCoder> this failed kickstarter auther posted how he made batteries https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/shawnpwest/30-second-charging-rechargeable-battery/posts/926461
[22:21:03] <XXCoder> (it was funded but he havent ponyed up with products)
[22:21:30] <furrywolf> I predicted that was a scam when it was first posted.
[22:21:31] <roycroft> much of the population would also say much of the population is, not much of the population are
[22:21:38] <roycroft> but much of the population would still be wrong
[22:21:57] <furrywolf> I even posted the math showing how his claims were utter bullshit.
[22:22:02] <XXCoder> furrywolf: likely but did anyone try what he said is way yo do it?
[22:22:24] <roycroft> kickstarters are not about deliverables
[22:22:27] <furrywolf> ?
[22:22:29] <roycroft> they're about revenue generation
[22:22:40] <roycroft> so that sounds like a resounding success, if it was fully funded
[22:22:43] <XXCoder> did you see link?
[22:22:51] <furrywolf> why would anyone try something everyone knew wouldn't work?
[22:23:13] <furrywolf> I even identified the exact model of capacitor he uses, and posted its specs, nowhere near his claims.
[22:23:14] <XXCoder> heh there was few stuff "everyone knew wouldn't work" that worked
[22:23:48] <XXCoder> but if he does indeed use that capactor then yeah bullshit kickstarter
[22:24:27] <roycroft> furrywolf: why do poor people vote for politicians they know will only legislate for rich people?
[22:24:32] <XXCoder> oh furry what mAH is that bigass capactor 2500 farad?
[22:24:39] <roycroft> because they have a delusional dream that one day they will be rich
[22:24:55] <roycroft> that same dream causes people to fund kickstarter projects that they know are doomed to failure
[22:25:16] <roycroft> because what if some miracle happens and it actually works?
[22:25:25] <furrywolf> xxcoder: farads to mAh is not a useful conversion generally...
[22:25:44] <XXCoder> I guess it depends on some factors
[22:25:49] <furrywolf> and doing said conversion requires far more math than I'm doing right now. :)
[22:25:51] <XXCoder> like what output is needed
[22:26:01] <furrywolf> most capacitor designs need a dc-dc converter.
[22:26:32] <furrywolf> electrochemical cells tend to have a pretty narrow voltage range, while capacitor voltage drops the entire time, all the way from full voltage to 0v.
[22:26:39] <zeeshan-mill> man
[22:26:44] <zeeshan-mill> i blew up a be25a20ac drive
[22:26:48] <zeeshan-mill> my Z axis
[22:26:52] <zeeshan-mill> all i did was e-stop
[22:26:54] <zeeshan-mill> kill power to it
[22:27:09] <zeeshan-mill> and then like 20 secs later
[22:27:11] <furrywolf> I told everyone that capacitor battery was a scam. people funded it anyway. now they don't have a product. fucking duh?
[22:27:12] <zeeshan-mill> re-energize it.
[22:27:14] <zeeshan-mill> it blew up
[22:27:18] <zeeshan-mill> asap i energized it
[22:27:22] <zeeshan-mill> i saw the shunt fuse blow
[22:27:26] <XXCoder> furrywolf: found math on one site "1.15Ah * (3600 / 26 seconds) = 159.2A"
[22:27:41] <zeeshan-mill> who said killing power is a good idea!
[22:27:43] <XXCoder> yeah its impossible to recharge 1.15 Ah in 30 seconds
[22:28:05] <XXCoder> zeeshan-mill: how does professional cnc machines stop motors?
[22:28:19] <XXCoder> I had to use estop quite a few times by now
[22:28:31] <furrywolf> how do you get your money back from kickstarter crooks, anyway? individually sue them? class action?
[22:28:31] <XXCoder> 6 times I guess, 4 of em on that car sized router table
[22:28:32] <zeeshan-mill> i think they prolly use the enable/disable pin for the drive
[22:28:34] <zeeshan-mill> not kill power to it.
[22:28:38] <zeeshan-mill> like i initially thought
[22:28:41] <XXCoder> furrywolf: nah you just dont get money back
[22:28:57] <furrywolf> my e-stop is going to kill the 5v common to the optos, which should do a good job killing everything.
[22:29:08] <roycroft> xxcoder is correct
[22:29:34] <XXCoder> on which?
[22:29:47] <furrywolf> all the more reason not to fund people where all the comments say it's a scam and they'll never deliver.
[22:29:50] <roycroft> the kickstarter contract basically says "you give kickstarter money, kickstarter gives it to the project, keeping its cut"
[22:29:54] <roycroft> and that's all it says
[22:30:07] <roycroft> not "and we guarantee deliverables"
[22:30:22] <XXCoder> indeed
[22:30:40] <furrywolf> I'd imagine that in case of intentional misrepresentation, you have a valid small claims court action.
[22:31:00] <XXCoder> to author, not kickstarter itself I guess
[22:31:05] <furrywolf> yes
[22:31:08] <XXCoder> LOL! found http://www.instructables.com/id/Graphene-Supercapacitor-Based-Battery-Charges-In-S/
[22:31:16] <roycroft> if all the promise is to take your money, and they take your money, then they have fulfilled their obligation, and you no basis for legal action
[22:31:17] <XXCoder> insuuctable for that same scam kickstarter!
[22:31:44] <furrywolf> right. I'm not saying sue kickstarter. I'm saying sue the individual who made the false claims.
[22:32:10] <roycroft> how is that any different from the person who says "i can't afford to go to college and i want to - so give me college money"
[22:32:21] <XXCoder> the instructable is pre-graphete too
[22:32:42] <furrywolf> because the person is saying "give me money and I'll give you a product that does X".
[22:32:47] <Tom_itx> Connor, how did you wire yours for reverse?
[22:33:01] <furrywolf> when the person has no intention of giving you a product, that does x or otherwise.
[22:33:42] <roycroft> but can you prove that the person has no intention of delivering the product?
[22:33:42] <XXCoder> furrywolf: this would be perfect for once a while low wattage uses http://www.treehugger.com/clean-technology/need-more-juice-for-your-aa-battery-shake-shake-shake.html
[22:33:53] <XXCoder> roy thats always hard
[22:33:55] <furrywolf> roycroft: when the person makes obviously false claims, yes.
[22:34:11] <XXCoder> unless guys stupid enough to give "finger" comment that he didnt plan to or something
[22:34:14] <furrywolf> every single claim he made about his product was false.
[22:34:23] <roycroft> well you first have to prove the person's competence
[22:34:34] <XXCoder> furrywolf: you'd need engineer witness. yourself probably
[22:34:37] <Valen> graphene
[22:34:39] <roycroft> and you can prove that he's aware that the claims are false?
[22:34:45] <roycroft> the person may just be an idiot
[22:34:53] <furrywolf> also, this is the US. you can drop your new computer on your foot and sue the manufacturer for not including a pair of steel toed boots with it.
[22:35:04] <XXCoder> lol
[22:35:10] <roycroft> i did not say you cannot bring a lawsuit
[22:35:16] <roycroft> i said there may be no basis for it
[22:35:20] <roycroft> meaning it would be dismissed
[22:35:28] <roycroft> sure, anyone can sue anyone for anything in the us
[22:35:42] <furrywolf> go tell that to the court who gave a woman a million bucks for dumping a cup of coffee down her pants.
[22:35:56] <roycroft> a court did not award that
[22:35:59] <roycroft> a jury did
[22:36:25] <Valen> there were actually some extenuating circumstances in that case, if you look into it its actually a bit more involved than the headline makes out
[22:36:55] <XXCoder> furrywolf: that case was that coffee was so hour she had 3rd degree burns
[22:36:59] <XXCoder> hot
[22:37:08] <furrywolf> I think his intentionally hiding the actual construction of the product through careful camera angles, etc, would be sufficient evidence he knew it did not and could not perform as advertised, but didn't want people to figure it out.
[22:37:17] <Valen> it was like 98C or something and had a badly fitting lid
[22:37:42] <furrywolf> right, like every other coffee. coffee is made by boiling water. you should expect that it may be near boiling.
[22:37:55] <Valen> actually not so much
[22:38:17] <Valen> go look it up, its not quite as clear cut as you like to think
[22:38:33] <XXCoder> indeed
[22:38:41] <furrywolf> I have looked it up. I know further research has shown their coffee was no hotter than anyone else's.
[22:39:54] <XXCoder> entry #6 http://www.cracked.com/article_19150_6-famous-frivolous-lawsuit-stories-that-are-total-b.s..html
[22:40:03] <furrywolf> all similar lawsuits since have been dismissed.
[22:40:22] <XXCoder> "econdly, coffee served at that temperature (180 to 190 degrees Fahrenheit) will give a person third-degree burns in two to seven seconds,"
[22:40:38] <XXCoder> home coffee is 130 to 140
[22:40:41] <XXCoder> F
[22:40:48] <furrywolf> and you know this why?
[22:41:29] <furrywolf> the next line of that article is "Yes, Starbucks and other joints do serve coffee at the hotter temperatures -- because some customers prefer it "
[22:41:49] <Connor> Tom_itx: The motor, or the C41 ?
[22:42:00] <Valen> "but then again, they get sued for it also"
[22:42:27] <Connor> for the C41, I just used a output to trigger the FW/REV relay, which toggled the reverse on the speed controller.
[22:43:07] <furrywolf> when you purchase a product that's expected to be hot, expect it to be hot, and take suitable precautions. if anything, that woman should have been tossed out of court with a citation for some form of reckless driving, because she was operating a vehicle while fucking around with her coffee instead of paying attention to the road.
[22:43:30] <Valen> The relatively sensible conclusion would be, don't give the general public liquid so hot that it could require skin grafts if its spilt
[22:43:33] <roycroft> ok, i'm watching this kickstarter guy's video
[22:43:41] <roycroft> it's apparent in about 20 seconds that he's an idiot
[22:44:05] <roycroft> if you willingly give money to an idiot you can't expect any return on your investment
[22:44:10] <XXCoder> probably because you can hear. too bad for me eh lol
[22:44:21] <Valen> I mean what happens if rather than her driving badly she got shunted, and had the coffee spill, or it wound up hitting some kid in the face
[22:44:21] <XXCoder> good thing I smelled something and didnt invest
[22:44:29] <furrywolf> valen: let's not give them knives, firearms, alcohol, automobiles, etc either!
[22:44:42] <XXCoder> Valen: there's always car accients too
[22:44:49] <roycroft> "the difference is that this is a chemical battery, while mine is a capacitor"
[22:45:05] <roycroft> that's the end of the lawsuit right there
[22:45:11] <XXCoder> uhh lol
[22:45:38] <furrywolf> "let's not give the public anything they could ever possibly harm themselves with" is not a viewpoint many would support.
[22:46:11] <XXCoder> furry its like a gun that would shoot if it was hit on side
[22:46:17] <XXCoder> sure its gun and designed to shoot
[22:46:24] <XXCoder> but it's not safe
[22:46:51] <furrywolf> right, but if you hit a coffee cup on the side, you expect it to spill. it's part of the inherent nature of it, not a defect.
[22:46:52] <XXCoder> if that guns in purse and she gets hit and it goes off
[22:46:54] <Valen> its not that, its having half a clue and not giving people a liquid in an open container that can cause serious injury to the user or third parties when not doing so isn't going to impede the utility of the product in any way
[22:47:20] <furrywolf> valen: except many customers prefer their coffee hotter. thus they must see some utility to it.
[22:47:27] <Valen> serve the coffee at a drinkable temperature that won't cause 3rd degree burns unless the customer asks for it
[22:47:40] <furrywolf> what if the customer wants to take it to work then drink it?
[22:47:42] <Valen> which I'm pretty sure is what they do now
[22:47:51] <furrywolf> no, coffee is still steaming, burning hot.
[22:48:06] * XXCoder is glad he does not drink coffee
[22:48:07] <roycroft> i challenge the premise that what mcdonald's serve is actually coffee
[22:48:19] <furrywolf> there's no reason to dumb the entire world down to make sure the stupidest people are safe.
[22:48:19] <XXCoder> coffeelike product
[22:48:50] <Valen> if its under about 65C its probably not going to cause bad burns
[22:48:52] <roycroft> i'm kind of a coffee snob though
[22:49:07] <roycroft> 65 is an interesting temperature
[22:49:09] <XXCoder> I'm h2o fan
[22:49:18] <XXCoder> one of world's most powerful solvent
[22:49:26] <roycroft> it's ideal for converting starches to sugar when brewing
[22:49:32] <XXCoder> found in all rain, lakes, oceans, in all mammals, etc
[22:49:34] <furrywolf> coffee is hot?! in other amazing news, water is wet, and some people believe the pope is catholic!
[22:49:51] <Valen> yeah its hot
[22:49:56] <roycroft> and it just so happens that 65c is right where most people cannot hold their hand in the liquid for more than a couple seconds
[22:50:01] <furrywolf> xxcoder: did you know that dihydrogen monoxide is incredibly dangerous, and causes thousands of deaths each year?
[22:50:03] <Valen> is it 3rd degree burn hot?
[22:50:14] <XXCoder> furrywolf: it's found in all cancers
[22:50:50] <roycroft> it's 1st degree hot on prolonged exposure
[22:50:51] <Valen> by your logic builders on skyscrapers shouldn't wear harneses
[22:51:06] <furrywolf> valen: it currently is, both at mcdonalds and other coffee establishments, and will continue to be.
[22:51:06] <Valen> or safety boots
[22:51:21] <Valen> dropping heavy things on your feet is stupid
[22:51:28] <Valen> you deserve to loose you toes
[22:51:55] <furrywolf> no, by my logic, builders on skyscrapers should know they need to wear one. if they decide not to, they'd better not sure their employers.
[22:52:10] <Valen> and when one of them falls off the building and kills me?
[22:52:21] <Valen> oooh wow my family can sue his estate
[22:52:26] <furrywolf> just like how you should know you need to take suitable precautions not to dump hot things in your lap. if you decide not to take these precautions, that's your problem.
[22:52:27] <Valen> that'll make it all better
[22:53:14] <Valen> so because some people want to work without harnesses (IE get their coffee 3rd degree burn hot) everybody else has to accept the increased risk as a result of that?
[22:53:20] <furrywolf> if they sold a defective cup that spontaneously dropped the bottom out, then she'd have a valid lawsuit.
[22:54:13] <XXCoder> furrywolf: lid wasnt secure if I recall
[22:55:01] <Valen> right you know how she was driving the car and being a bad driver
[22:55:08] <Valen> On February 27, 1992, Stella Liebeck, a 79-year-old woman from Albuquerque, New Mexico, ordered a 49-cent cup of coffee from the drive-through window of a local McDonald's restaurant located at 5001 Gibson Boulevard Southeast. Liebeck was in the passenger's seat of her grandson's 1989 Ford Probe, which did not have cup holders, and her grandson Chris parked the car so that Liebeck could add cream and sugar to her coffee.
[22:55:14] <Valen> is what actually happened
[22:55:24] <furrywolf> no, lid was completely secure. in fact, she was removing it when she managed to dump the cup out.
[22:55:41] <XXCoder> ah must have rememebred other case
[22:55:42] <furrywolf> there was nothing defective about the cup or coffee within.
[22:55:47] <Valen> right and your slander about her driving the car and the case should have been thrown out?
[22:56:02] <roycroft> s/coffee/hot beverage/ :)
[22:56:03] <furrywolf> no, you remembered some argument given by someone like valen trying to make it sound like she was a victim.
[22:58:18] <furrywolf> as to your comparrison with not wearing a safety harness posting a risk to other innocent people, that's akin to saying hurting yourself with your coffee will also hurt other people, which will only happen if you're doing something stupid, like driving.
[22:58:30] <Valen> or like walking
[22:58:44] <Valen> and spilling it on me
[22:59:07] <furrywolf> where I work, one of the people occasionally brings in coffee for everyone. if they served it warm instead of hot, it'd be cool instead of warm when it got to the warehouse. it's a good thing everywhere still serves it hot.
[22:59:07] <XXCoder> furrywolf: it is possible that external events can happen - like I said perviously, car accient
[22:59:32] <Valen> so ask for it hot then
[22:59:50] <Valen> oh my god the sky is falling, the person who wants the dangerous thing has to ask for it
[23:00:03] <furrywolf> and how do you propose they do that? reheat it for each customer? water down everyone else's?
[23:00:11] <furrywolf> keep two pots of coffee at different temperatures?
[23:00:23] <roycroft> i've never been convinced that the mcdonald's coffee verdict and award was correct
[23:00:32] <roycroft> not convinced that it wasn't either
[23:00:43] <Valen> roycroft: that's an argument I can get behind
[23:00:54] <roycroft> but assuming it was a bad verdict, that does not mean that there should be no consumer safety standards
[23:01:01] <roycroft> all it means is that they got it wrong that time
[23:01:03] <Valen> dismissing it out of hand without actually knowing anything about it is silly
[23:01:08] <furrywolf> let's make coffee shops do double the work because some people are too stupid to care for themselves!
[23:01:44] <Valen> I don't drink coffee, I have had it spilt on me in the past, why should I assume the risk of 3rd degree burns because of your choice of beverage?
[23:02:02] <PetefromTn_> http://i.imgur.com/JIbVGiQ.jpg http://i.imgur.com/KsL8Joe.jpg Just got a simple vacuum gauge manifold built here tonight to accept the 1/8 NPT gauge I am expecting. I could not figure out a good way to attach the ball valve to it so I just used some zip ties. I need to figure out a good way to affix this to the magnetic base that is stripped out behind it now.
[23:02:15] <furrywolf> oh, there should be consumer safety standards... like I said, the cup shouldn't spontaneously fail, for example. but she dumped it on herself. she held it between her knees, yanked on the lid, and the cup got pulled with it. entirely user error, nothing to do with safety standards.
[23:03:01] <furrywolf> valen: your entire life is filled with risk because of other people's choices. let's ban driving SUVs on the same roads as cars! let's prohibit airplanes from flying over populated areas! etc.
[23:03:44] <Valen> furrywolf: if I drive a car I am voluntarily accepting the risk of sharing the road
[23:03:48] <furrywolf> other people want to have their coffee hot. this creates a negligable risk to you.
[23:03:49] <zeeshan|2> man
[23:03:51] <zeeshan|2> i can't figure this out
[23:03:54] <zeeshan|2> why this drive blew up
[23:03:59] <zeeshan|2> just after a power cycle.
[23:04:04] <XXCoder> lol http://humorhub.net/wp-content/uploads/2013/12/wow-your-baby-is.jpg
[23:04:10] <furrywolf> and if you sit next to someone with coffee, you're voluntarily sharing the risk they might dump it out.
[23:04:18] <XXCoder> zeeshan|2: does it have some kind of fuse?
[23:04:23] <zeeshan|2> fuse is ok
[23:04:26] <zeeshan|2> it blew up some chips
[23:04:34] <zeeshan|2> it killed my main fuse
[23:04:42] <zeeshan|2> well the upstream fuse for the drive.
[23:04:48] <zeeshan|2> the internet shunt fuse is fine
[23:04:49] <Valen> so where do you draw the line?
[23:04:54] <Valen> at what point is it a failure?
[23:05:08] <PetefromTn_> is this on your mill or your lathe?
[23:05:12] <zeeshan|2> mill
[23:05:15] <Valen> so as long as the cup doesn't fall apart sitting on a desk its fine
[23:05:17] <furrywolf> there's also a risk they might mug you, or they might have a stroke, fall onto you, and knock your head into a solid object. or they might sneeze and give you ebola.
[23:05:18] <PetefromTn_> Damn that sucks man...
[23:05:24] <zeeshan|2> i have a spare drive
[23:05:27] <zeeshan|2> but i dont want that one to blow up
[23:05:31] <PetefromTn_> for sure
[23:06:19] <XXCoder> rebuildable?
[23:06:56] <furrywolf> I draw the line at what is reasonably expected. coffee is expected to be hot. cups are expected not to fail.
[23:07:17] <Valen> so when does it fail?
[23:07:26] <zeeshan|2> http://c1.staticflickr.com/9/8598/16245459030_bbef456830_o.jpg
[23:07:28] <zeeshan|2> bottom right
[23:07:31] <zeeshan|2> you can see the carnage.
[23:07:35] <furrywolf> you can wager that wasn't her first coffee either, and she probably knew exactly how hot it was.
[23:07:58] <zeeshan|2> https://www.flickr.com/photos/128539016@N05/16406891086/
[23:07:58] <roycroft> she was 79 years old
[23:08:01] <Valen> zeeshan|2: you don't know what else got taken out as well which will often suck
[23:08:06] <roycroft> at that point she may not have known much of anything about anything
[23:08:11] <zeeshan|2> valen i dont wananf ix this board
[23:08:12] <furrywolf> ouch. that image is going to take a while to load...
[23:08:14] <XXCoder> zeeshan|2: ouch
[23:08:14] <zeeshan|2> i want to figure out why it happened
[23:08:34] <Valen> roycroft: he'll say it was her son's fault now ;-P
[23:08:40] <zeeshan|2> my theory is switching the mains side of a drive
[23:08:42] <zeeshan|2> is a BAD idea
[23:08:44] <zeeshan|2> like ithought!
[23:08:45] <Valen> yeah
[23:08:55] <zeeshan|2> i was told otherwise.
[23:08:58] <zeeshan|2> :/
[23:09:02] <Valen> the problem you have is the mechanical energy in the drive needs to go somewhere as a rule
[23:09:09] <zeeshan|2> EXACTLY
[23:09:20] <zeeshan|2> i think DISABLING the drive
[23:09:22] <zeeshan|2> is a much better option
[23:09:30] <furrywolf> if she's mentally incompetent, then yes, whomever was looking after her needed to take care of her. just like how parents need to supervise their children, rather than blaming the world every time they wander off and get into trouble.
[23:09:49] <furrywolf> my guess would be when you killed the power, you got a big inductive spike back from the motor.
[23:09:58] <zeeshan|2> but motor was in disabled mode.
[23:10:00] <zeeshan|2> it wasn't running
[23:10:05] <Valen> yeah, you can also kill off the motor drive side
[23:10:09] * furrywolf is still waiting for the image to load
[23:10:10] <Valen> thats what we do
[23:10:23] <XXCoder> electric engines can act as dynimo
[23:10:31] <XXCoder> wild guess, thats what happened
[23:10:37] <zeeshan|2> the thing is in the maual it says
[23:10:37] <XXCoder> it made power as it stopped
[23:10:39] <furrywolf> I haven't wired my e-stop yet, but my plan is to interrupt the common +5V to the optos, which will disable everything nicely.
[23:10:46] <zeeshan|2> not to disconnect motor wires when you're in vel feedback mode..
[23:12:23] <furrywolf> is there any damage other than that capacitor?
[23:12:42] <XXCoder> I see burnt resistors
[23:12:44] <XXCoder> I think
[23:12:51] <zeeshan|2> i see a voltage regulator
[23:12:54] <zeeshan|2> with a vaporized pin! :P
[23:12:54] <furrywolf> also, ground off chip labels? LOL
[23:12:56] <Tom_itx> zeeshan|2, thanks...
[23:13:02] <zeeshan|2> Tom_itx: for what
[23:13:05] <zeeshan|2> you got the card?
[23:13:07] <furrywolf> I'm not sure that regulator is fried, or just covered in exploded capacitor...
[23:13:08] <Tom_itx> yeah
[23:13:09] <zeeshan|2> nice!
[23:13:10] * furrywolf can't tell
[23:13:17] <XXCoder> furry yeah hard to tell
[23:13:39] <zeeshan|2> so it could have just been a cap failure?
[23:13:48] <furrywolf> oh, a different regulator.
[23:13:51] * furrywolf sees it now
[23:13:52] <XXCoder> you'll have to clean cap guts off
[23:14:01] <zeeshan|2> ok lemme see
[23:14:07] <furrywolf> probably the voltage regulator shorted, and the cap popped
[23:14:29] <furrywolf> which probably supplied high voltage to everything on that rail, with significant collateral damage...
[23:14:52] <zeeshan|2> lol i looked closely
[23:14:56] <zeeshan|2> that voltage regulator is missing a leg.
[23:14:58] <zeeshan|2> the middle one
[23:15:11] <XXCoder> ouch it probably did vapr depost of meta;l everywhere
[23:15:15] <XXCoder> vapor
[23:15:28] <XXCoder> s/;/
[23:16:00] <zeeshan|2> well hey look at the bright side
[23:16:05] <furrywolf> the middle one is often missing by design
[23:16:06] <zeeshan|2> my up stream circuit protection worked!
[23:16:22] <furrywolf> looks like the right leg melted too, however.
[23:16:29] <zeeshan|2> these guys go through the efofrt
[23:16:35] <zeeshan|2> of sanding off the chip manufacturer names.
[23:16:49] <furrywolf> the big tab on top is connected to the middle leg, so many designers just use that.
[23:16:59] <zeeshan|2> ah
[23:18:04] <furrywolf> my initial guess would be the regulator pass transistor shorted, which supplied full input power to the output, popping the capacitor. depending on what that regulator powers, the other damage could range from none to every expensive part.
[23:18:20] <zeeshan|2> what would cause that initial short?
[23:19:46] <furrywolf> voltage spike, in either direction. (over rated supply voltage, or below ground)
[23:19:56] <furrywolf> disconnecting inductive loads tends to produce such spikes
[23:20:11] <zeeshan|2> how would you reduce the spike?
[23:20:11] <XXCoder> furry is my wildass guess anywhere near possible?
[23:20:46] <furrywolf> which guess?
[23:21:01] <XXCoder> oh motor acting as dynimo briefly
[23:21:06] <furrywolf> I put 75V zeners across the input to each driver. I don't know if it'll save them, but it can't hurt!
[23:21:20] <furrywolf> he said the motor wasn't turning, so it'd be inductive kickback, not actual generation.
[23:21:25] <XXCoder> ok
[23:22:20] <furrywolf> if you do brake the motor, then yes, it can dump power back into the supply... part of why I have the zeners. if I have a lot of weight spinning, they might be able to charge the supply cap to above the driver's rated voltage.
[23:22:41] <zeeshan|2> when this blew up
[23:22:43] <zeeshan|2> the motor wasn't running
[23:22:47] <zeeshan|2> i literally power cycled it
[23:22:55] <zeeshan|2> on / o ff
[23:23:06] <zeeshan|2> i was working on the vfd. was trying to restart the cnc controller :)
[23:23:17] <zeeshan|2> i pressed e-stop
[23:23:22] <zeeshan|2> and then waited 20 seconds
[23:23:25] <zeeshan|2> and re-energized.
[23:23:30] <furrywolf> it could have just decided to randomly fail.
[23:23:51] <furrywolf> but I would still advise strongly against disconnecting the power to the drives with estop. heh.
[23:24:09] <furrywolf> they should have internal protection enough not to fry like that, but...
[23:24:32] <zeeshan|2> well that's an easy fix :)
[23:24:52] <zeeshan|2> i can bypass the safety contactor.
[23:24:58] <zeeshan|2> or have it normally closed.
[23:25:14] <furrywolf> a well-designed product shouldn't catastrophically fail on input power failure. :)
[23:27:06] <zeeshan|2> well the other drives didnt fail :)
[23:27:41] <XXCoder> so far you know
[23:27:49] <zeeshan|2> ??
[23:27:52] <furrywolf> it could even have been damaged by a voltage spike from one of the other drives, if you cut power to all of them at once, while they were still connected to each other.
[23:27:56] <XXCoder> did you test em?
[23:28:02] <zeeshan|2> yea i did
[23:28:05] <XXCoder> okay
[23:28:20] <zeeshan|2> furrywolf: the whole system wasn't running :)
[23:28:43] <zeeshan|2> all motors were idling
[23:28:46] * furrywolf doesn't trust products where the manufacturer grinds off chip labels
[23:28:53] <zeeshan|2> yea!
[23:28:55] <zeeshan|2> lame! :)
[23:29:01] <zeeshan|2> but at least its cheap to replace
[23:29:05] <XXCoder> lemme check mine
[23:29:43] <furrywolf> or like my centent drives, carefully potted in aluminum oxide filled epoxy, just to make sure you can't even grind or cut it off...
[23:29:50] <XXCoder> none of tiny chips has any print and theres big heat sink so dunno whats under it
[23:30:23] <zeeshan|2> i really think a component failed
[23:30:25] <zeeshan|2> and internally shorted
[23:31:14] <furrywolf> if the part that looks like a voltage regulator is a standard 78xx part, or any of the standard 3-terminal adjustable regs, it'll current limit, not melt.
[23:31:23] <furrywolf> the exploded cap suggests input voltage made it to a low voltage rail
[23:31:48] <furrywolf> you can dead-short, say, a 7812, and it'll do absolutely nothing.
[23:32:33] <furrywolf> if that rail was a bunch of analog stuff, opamps, etc, it might just need a new regulator and cap. if it was a logic supply rail...
[23:32:43] <zeeshan|2> its analog stuff
[23:32:44] <zeeshan|2> likely.
[23:32:53] <furrywolf> with the labels ground off, I'm not going to try figuring it out.
[23:33:10] <zeeshan|2> im gonna use my spare drive
[23:33:14] <zeeshan|2> and order a replacement for the spare
[23:33:17] <zeeshan|2> if it happens again
[23:33:24] <zeeshan|2> ill know something is up :P
[23:33:44] <furrywolf> any shorted component other than the regulator would have just put the regulator into short-circuit protection mode, and it'd have sat there not working, with no melting at all.
[23:34:16] <furrywolf> since the cap popped, either it shorted internally, or was overvolted.
[23:34:36] <Connor> They really did sand off all the Identification... WTF
[23:34:53] <Connor> That's just EVIL.
[23:35:12] <XXCoder> Connor: no way to figure whats those is to copy em =
[23:35:32] <furrywolf> connor: it serves two purposes... marginally helps prevent the chinese from directly copying your design, and substantially helps make sure all repairs get sent back to you instead of being fixed by the owner or independent shops.
[23:36:14] <Connor> Still Evil.
[23:36:39] <furrywolf> of course, said copiers are dishonest, not retarded, and are perfectly capable of dissolving the epoxy and using a microscope, or xraying the chips, or determing the function by monitoring the pins, etc.
[23:37:02] <furrywolf> determining
[23:37:53] <furrywolf> my favorite still is I bought a _chinese_ inverter with all the chip labels ground off.
[23:38:01] <XXCoder> wow so tired. f.lux seem to work very well
[23:38:20] <XXCoder> it tints montiors as night comes in so there is less blue
[23:38:28] <XXCoder> anyway night
[23:38:40] * furrywolf uses tiny white print on black, which doesn't have much blue anyway.
[23:39:51] <XXCoder> actsully white has full blue on
[23:40:07] <XXCoder> thats why normally white text here is now slightly reddish
[23:40:20] <furrywolf> 170 columns on a 13" screen. :)
[23:40:31] <XXCoder> lol ok. dual montiors here
[23:40:35] <XXCoder> forgot what size
[23:40:36] <furrywolf> yes, I know. I'm referring to the overall low portion of white on the display compared to black.
[23:40:42] <XXCoder> true
[23:40:56] <XXCoder> I would love to have oled displays like on my phone
[23:41:07] <XXCoder> when its black it really is not emitting any photons
[23:41:48] <XXCoder> dammit no
[23:41:50] <XXCoder> amoled
[23:41:56] <XXCoder> damn tired later all
[23:42:05] <furrywolf> cyas
[23:42:09] <furrywolf> getting to be bedtime here too
[23:42:20] <zeeshan|2> gnite man
[23:43:33] <furrywolf> bbl, wolfy bedtime