#linuxcnc | Logs for 2015-01-30

[02:17:56] <Deejay> moin
[04:44:43] <witnit> Anyone know of some affordable servo tapping spindles? so, servo quill, servo spindle, im doing 10-32 tapping with 3/8th deep threads
[04:48:58] <Tom_itx> google tapmatic on ebay
[04:49:43] <witnit> oh tom_itx I need some serious tapping units
[04:50:08] <witnit> I will need to run these parts at a rate of 1 part per second to keep up with the order
[04:50:22] <witnit> its 1 mil a month ongoing
[04:50:36] <witnit> I will need ridgid servo tapping
[04:52:42] <witnit> thanks though, those are awesome for small jobs
[04:53:56] <witnit> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m5J3tXcqWBs
[04:54:04] <witnit> I need small version of these
[04:54:21] <witnit> just the unit, not the table
[05:04:28] <Tom_itx> we ran 5-6k per shift with them
[05:08:05] <Tom_itx> http://www.sugino.com/site/qa-e/sf-technical-dh-qanda.html
[05:09:09] <Tom_itx> http://www.hypneumat.com/
[05:10:51] <Tom_itx> http://www.directindustry.com/prod/sugino/multi-spindle-drilling-heads-28709-1190071.html
[05:13:10] <Tom_itx> http://www.aliexpress.com/wholesale?SearchText=multi+axis+drill+tap+head&catId=0&initiative_id=SB_20150130025143
[05:13:12] <Tom_itx> chinese
[05:16:02] <witnit> these look alot closer
[05:17:13] <witnit> the hardest part is finding them the right size it seems
[05:19:00] <witnit> all i really need is 1 inch stroke and the servo rotation, i have intentions on converting another type of older machine to have a servo tapping unit built directly into the machine for tapping parts before cutting them off in the machine
[05:20:06] <witnit> if i could use the same thing as what you listed at direct industry link but maybe just a much smaller version and two position turret instead of that many
[05:20:20] <witnit> that would be ideal
[05:22:32] <witnit> if i didnt need such a fast cycle time I would do it with clutch tapping unit but i need to be able to hit the same spot everytime and be able to swap threads and part length quickly
[05:23:48] <Tom_itx> what material are you tapping?
[05:25:51] <Tom_itx> there's a point the taps won't take it too...
[05:32:41] <witnit> im guessing 1020 its coming from a coldheader shop they are sending samples soon
[05:33:22] <witnit> im not sure if rolltapping is an option due to the wall thickness of the part
[05:34:42] <witnit> Im guessing if i must cut them, I will have to use a spiral tap or i will be pulling shavings out of 3600 holes an hour :/
[06:12:19] <James628> PCW: I'd like to buy 9 Mesa 7i90HD boards, but only 3 are on stock. Is it expected to restock them soon?
[06:20:28] <Tom_itx> James628, awesome board btw... just got one
[06:23:18] <James628> Tom: Yes, nice board, price also very good. BTW, AFAIK you made a good description about creating custom firmware for Mesa boards..
[08:50:44] <_methods> hey any of you uk guys got a question is a bsprp tap the same thing as bspp?
[08:51:59] <archivist> there is bs parallel pipe and standard bs pipe
[08:52:18] <_methods> yeah bspp is parallel or should be right
[08:52:27] <archivist> yes
[08:52:30] <_methods> i have a tap labeled bsprp though
[08:52:39] <archivist> picture :)
[08:53:06] <_methods> nah someone grabbed it and its out in the shop somewhere
[08:53:18] <archivist> I wonder where my threads folder is
[08:53:18] <_methods> but it looked parallel to me
[08:53:27] <_methods> i was just wondering if bsprp was the same as bspp
[08:53:35] <_methods> since G=BSPP
[08:53:55] <archivist> like most systems there are oddballs
[08:58:01] <_methods> um yeah of course it's off an italian part
[08:58:17] <_methods> the captains of oddball
[08:58:36] <_methods> i hate getting italian prints
[09:05:05] <archivist> grmbl, folder is awol
[09:06:35] <archivist> found an online reference
[09:08:02] <_methods> wikipedia has a pile of fun confusing facts about the standard
[09:08:25] <CaptHindsight> _methods: do they smell of cigarettes and are they printed on fine silk?
[09:08:30] <_methods> i think the BPRP references ISO 7/1
[09:08:34] <_methods> hahah
[09:08:42] <archivist> http://www.mscdirect.com/ProductComparisonView?item=88245147,88245014,97478002 has them
[09:08:43] <_methods> their prints are terribad
[09:09:09] <_methods> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/British_Standard_Pipe
[09:09:59] <_methods> s/BPRP/BSPRP
[09:10:30] <_methods> "G: Series British Standard Pipe - Parallel ( Straight ) BSP or BSPF
[09:10:30] <_methods> Also referred to as British Gas, British Pipe Parallel or Parallel Fastening thread.
[09:10:33] <_methods> Various Symbols: BSP, BSPP, BSSPI, BSPF, BSPG, PS, R, G.
[09:10:43] <_methods> you silly brits
[09:10:50] <archivist> it is not british gas
[09:11:15] <_methods> the BSPT is equally cornfusing
[09:11:23] <_methods> Various Symbols: BSPT, BSPTr, PT, KR, Rc.
[09:11:27] <archivist> older steam engines used the parallel form
[09:13:28] <marmite> https://pbs.twimg.com/media/B8mmtfiCYAEkMKx.jpg:large got mine today
[09:14:16] <_methods> ahh that rubber gasket isolates the area for vacuum
[09:14:21] <marmite> jupp
[09:14:41] <marmite> great design i think
[09:14:49] <_methods> i guess you'll find out
[09:15:04] <marmite> yeah used it before on larger machine
[09:15:06] <marmite> worked good there
[09:15:18] <marmite> so should work great on my machine ^^ onley need a good pump
[10:26:03] <zeeshan> hi syyl_ :)
[10:37:30] <zeeshan> nur fur Jnneneinbau Spanner und Ersatzlieferung
[10:37:34] <zeeshan> only for Jnneneinbau tensioner and replacement
[10:37:42] <zeeshan> whats that middle world my german friends? :)
[10:44:30] <toast-work> my sassy german-speaking cousin says, "something with a typo."
[10:44:41] <zeeshan> lol
[10:45:15] <toast-work> "jnnen is not a word"
[10:45:32] <toast-work> "einbau means fixture, or a thing that is installed"
[10:45:44] <toast-work> "Unless it is a name or proper noun of some sort."
[10:45:58] <zeeshan> maybe is Unnen
[10:46:02] <zeeshan> its a bad photocopy
[10:47:04] <toast-work> "Still not a word"
[10:47:09] <zeeshan> damn
[10:47:22] <Connor> just for can install clamps and replacement
[10:47:29] <Rab> zeeshan, try posting a pic of the photocopy?
[10:47:47] <zeeshan> before that i need one important phrase translated
[10:47:50] <zeeshan> again google not helping
[10:47:51] <zeeshan> einstellmaB nur in Losestellung einstellen
[10:48:33] <Connor> Setting install only in lots of positions ?
[10:49:02] <zeeshan> that makes no sense to me
[10:49:03] <zeeshan> lol
[10:49:20] <zeeshan> setting in open position only ?
[10:50:04] <Connor> Losestellung = lots position according to google
[10:50:26] <zeeshan> not a single nice website i can find to upload pdfs
[10:50:28] <zeeshan> b/s.
[10:51:05] <Connor> Could possible be released position ?
[10:51:18] <Connor> if the word is Losstellung
[10:51:49] <Rab> zeeshan, I'll host it if you want to DCC or email.
[10:52:09] <zeeshan> i think dropbox i try fiorst
[10:53:40] <zeeshan> https://www.dropbox.com/s/8s3xrjqurcwr3mr/
[10:53:43] <zeeshan> import pdf #1
[10:53:54] <zeeshan> https://www.dropbox.com/s/w79yvpn0ykjuw37/
[10:53:56] <zeeshan> pdf #2
[10:55:23] <zeeshan> will iknow for sure today
[10:55:28] <zeeshan> that my spindle is SK40 - DIN2080
[10:55:29] <zeeshan> :-)
[10:55:37] <zeeshan> so my current tool holder is correct
[10:56:44] <zeeshan> it must mean release position
[10:56:50] <zeeshan> cause look at the way the fingers are drawn..
[10:56:52] <zeeshan> they're open
[10:57:26] <zeeshan> they specify 91.4+/- 0.1
[10:57:31] <zeeshan> im measuring 92.2
[10:57:53] <zeeshan> so its out by almost .030"
[10:58:09] <zeeshan> the question is, what are the symptoms when the distance is too large? :)
[10:58:33] <zeeshan> you should have _more_ clamping pressure i'd think.
[11:07:49] <zeeshan> ott-jakobs must be a really good company
[11:08:07] <zeeshan> this drawbar was first designed in in 1977
[11:08:22] <zeeshan> theyre still supporting it 38 years after :)
[11:15:39] <bobo_> Hi zeeshan
[11:15:55] <zeeshan> hi!
[11:16:40] <zeeshan> how are you my friend
[11:16:44] <bobo_> looks like you are really making headway
[11:16:46] <zeeshan> you're up early
[11:17:35] <bobo_> Cat wanted a early start today
[11:17:52] <zeeshan> haha
[11:18:07] <zeeshan> mines been going crazy with the new toy mice we got him
[11:20:06] <zeeshan> spring pack replacement $230
[11:20:16] <zeeshan> for a buncha washers :)
[11:20:30] <archivist> bent washers at that
[11:20:48] <zeeshan> im gonna make this adjustment tool tonight when i get back home
[11:20:56] <zeeshan> try adjusting it to the spec
[11:20:58] <zeeshan> and see what happens
[11:21:11] <zeeshan> people do make comments that you lose significant clamping pressure if its not adjusted right
[11:21:21] <zeeshan> (if its set to too long of a clamp height)
[11:21:32] <zeeshan> [that makes no sense to me]
[11:21:37] <archivist> spring rate is very high
[11:21:48] <bobo_> This cat is a mostly outdoor type. But cold weather means I am a doorman
[11:22:05] <archivist> so you need to adjust to get the right point on the curve
[11:22:43] <zeeshan> archivist: so at 3.598" , it should be 3350 lb
[11:23:01] <zeeshan> you're saying F = kx , k is non-linear?
[11:23:19] <zeeshan> http://www.globalspec.com/ImageRepository/LearnMore/20123/DimensionsWasherSpring%20graph9153294ca29a4bc6bf3fe017ef72f711.png
[11:23:20] <archivist> it is steep
[11:23:20] <zeeshan> holy cow
[11:23:23] <zeeshan> its highly non-linear
[11:23:40] <zeeshan> if you over compress
[11:24:23] <zeeshan> dependant on the height ..
[11:24:56] <archivist> I did damage my rollers when making a printer developing roller mechanism compressed with those "washers"
[11:26:12] <archivist> needed 2 tons per linear inch, if the paper wrinkled, guess the area :)
[11:27:13] <zeeshan> metric tons? :)
[11:27:49] <archivist> nah USA tons it was an american technology
[11:28:12] <bobo_> The adjust tool-----might consider having place for coller on tube to measure distance from for setting fingers distance to spindle face
[11:30:13] <bobo_> Saw on your PDF #2 the use of loctite
[11:30:15] <OneTimePad> how?
[11:30:52] <OneTimePad> did lock washers slip?
[11:33:47] <zeeshan> yea bobo
[11:33:56] <zeeshan> not sure what thats for.
[11:34:04] <archivist> 8 inches of rollers, when the paper wrinkles all the pressure is on a small area so 16 tons
[11:34:47] <zeeshan> http://i.imgur.com/Ykt0NMu.png
[11:34:50] <zeeshan> this is the tool for adjustment
[11:35:00] <OneTimePad> another day older and deeper in debt?
[11:37:24] <malcom2073> Ya load 16 tons
[11:38:43] <archivist> case hardened but not deep enough
[11:42:04] <bobo_> zeeshan what is your current thinking about th e-bay Mikron manual ?
[12:06:59] <bobo_> The one seemed to be in english --------and my bet is there is minor differences of your mill and that manual
[12:15:48] <bobo_> only minor differences
[12:17:20] <zeeshan> bobo i contacted person
[12:17:22] <zeeshan> but no response
[12:17:27] <zeeshan> ill be back later
[12:17:28] <zeeshan> meeting :/
[12:52:57] <CaptHindsight> http://3dprintingindustry.com/2015/01/30/bringing-closed-loop-control-desktop-3d-printing/ why didn't someone think of this before again?
[12:54:29] <CaptHindsight> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L-_5KsAOVko with video
[12:56:17] <malcom2073> I'm getting dejavu
[12:56:23] <malcom2073> hackaday just posted that like a week ago didn't they?
[12:56:39] <malcom2073> New revolutionary system, should call it something... ser something, servo maybe? Sounds like a good name, quick, patent it!
[12:57:39] <malcom2073> What's funny, they started with DC motors for the extruder, and rather than sticking an encoder on it, went to steppers
[13:01:14] <bobo_> malcom2073 get back to the drain stopper repair kit ------my 401k is in need !
[13:01:35] <ssi> hey gu\ys
[13:01:42] <ssi> I have a thing I'm trying to do I could use some advice on
[13:01:48] <malcom2073> bobo_: I'm still waiting on the guy to get back from arizona so I can pick up the damm machine, much less the retrofit :P
[13:01:49] <malcom2073> one thing at a time haha
[13:02:07] <ssi> I'm trying to fit a tailwheel to a new tailspring, the tailspring is tapered and spring steel, and I can't really turn it because it's long and bent
[13:02:18] <ssi> the tailwheel has a tapered socket on it that's kinda dorked up
[13:02:23] <ssi> it's aluminum
[13:02:45] <ssi> best way I can think to clean it up is with a tapered reamer, but I'm not sure I can get an appropriate reamer
[13:03:16] <ssi> the spring seems to measure about 0.0135"/inch taper, which is way shallower than any morse
[13:03:37] <Tom_itx> boring bar?
[13:03:48] <ssi> it's .641" an inch from the small end, and .668" 3" from the small end
[13:03:53] <ssi> not sure how to bore a taper on the mill
[13:04:09] <Tom_itx> no lathe?
[13:04:12] <ssi> I could bore a taper on the lathe, but I can't hold the tailwheel body on the lathe
[13:04:17] <Tom_itx> oh
[13:04:38] <Tom_itx> how outta whack is it?
[13:04:49] <ssi> enough that I can't make the new spring seat
[13:05:13] <ssi> I could probably touch it up with sandpaper and make it work, but I'd like to do something a bit more precise
[13:05:44] <Tom_itx> i was gonna say why not wrap some 400-600 around the shaft and see if you can clean it up a bit
[13:05:56] <Tom_itx> insert the shaft in the wheel
[13:06:07] <Tom_itx> and manually turn the wheel
[13:06:51] <ssi> https://pbs.twimg.com/media/B8nnMV9IcAIwvmb.jpg:large
[13:06:55] <ssi> that's the tailwheel body, fwiw
[13:06:59] <ssi> the bottom end is the taper end
[13:07:15] <ssi> the tapered tailspring goes in that socket, then gets cross drilled and bolted
[13:08:03] <ssi> if I had something cnc I could taper bore :P
[13:09:29] <PetefromTn_> which side has the taper the long side or the short side?
[13:09:35] <ssi> the long side
[13:09:46] <Tom_itx> aviation epoxy
[13:09:48] <Tom_itx> :)
[13:09:52] <PetefromTn_> how deep is it?
[13:09:52] <Tom_itx> that'll fill the gap
[13:09:56] <ssi> 1.75
[13:10:00] <Tom_itx> that pink stuff...
[13:10:27] <ssi> I have gallons of epoxy, but that's not the right answer here :)
[13:10:56] <PetefromTn_> I don't see why you could not put it in your lathe if you are talking about the long side taper.. do you have a steady rest?
[13:11:09] <ssi> yes, I have a steady
[13:11:22] <Tom_itx> that's your best bet so far
[13:11:24] <ssi> I guess I could center it in the steady and run it with a four jaw
[13:11:35] <PetefromTn_> can't you hold the part in the four jaw on the top
[13:11:38] <PetefromTn_> LOL yeah
[13:12:03] <PetefromTn_> hold it in the four jaw and indicate the taper on the outside of the steady rest and bore it
[13:12:15] <PetefromTn_> with the compound if it has enough travel
[13:12:24] <ssi> I have a taper attachment
[13:12:26] <PetefromTn_> or with your taper attachment as I recall you have one
[13:12:28] <Tom_itx> what angle are the 2 holes to each other? they're not 90 deg
[13:12:34] <ssi> no, they're not 90
[13:12:44] <ssi> 80 maybe
[13:12:46] <ssi> dunno exactly
[13:14:44] <PetefromTn_> might find that the OD is not concentric to the taper id of course so you might have to screw around adjusting it until you get the old taper to run as true as possible. If you have the male part you can make it the same regardless
[13:54:57] * LeelooMinai wonders why those "straight edge"s are so expensive
[13:55:26] <malcom2073> hand scrape your own once?
[13:56:01] <LeelooMinai> I don't even have surface plate:)
[14:29:43] <PetefromTn_> Woohoo angular contact bearings are in da house! Now I can figure out the Z ballscrew dimensions so I can get it ordered here. getting ready to order some more stuff for the PC side of the lathe retrofit. Gotta make some decisions on a proper board and SSD for it.
[14:37:20] <LeelooMinai> Hmm
[14:37:46] <LeelooMinai> So, this spindle bracket of mine, which looks like this one: http://www.aliexpress.com/item/65MM-DIAMETER-CAST-ALUMINIUM-BRACKET-FOR-CNC-ENGRAVING-MILLING-MACHINE-SPINDLE/1704993561.html
[14:39:03] <LeelooMinai> It seems that looking from top it's not a rectangle, but one side is 2mm shorter - it tapers. My guess it's on purpose so it can "wedge" itself into something, right?
[14:39:57] <norias> hmm
[14:40:01] <norias> i don't see a top view
[14:40:10] <PetefromTn_> is it cast?
[14:40:16] <LeelooMinai> Yes, it's cast
[14:40:27] <LeelooMinai> Cast and sandblasted apparently
[14:40:42] <PetefromTn_> they probably did not worry about the dimensions along the side so you cannot rely on it being straight or square
[14:40:59] <PetefromTn_> they probably bored it from the top or bottom and then faced that side or both
[14:41:04] <PetefromTn_> possibly
[14:41:19] <LeelooMinai> Well, but 2mm difference, that's a bit extreme - it almost seems it's done on purpose
[14:41:31] <PetefromTn_> I cannot imagine why
[14:41:38] <norias> all the surfaces?
[14:41:46] <PetefromTn_> but I have never used one.
[14:41:53] <LeelooMinai> The outside footprint as seen from top and the body
[14:41:56] <PetefromTn_> is that link the exact one you have
[14:42:12] <LeelooMinai> PetefromTn_: Well, as I said, maybe it's so it wedges itself?
[14:42:14] <Connor> Probably just a bad casting..
[14:42:21] <LeelooMinai> Yes, it's the same one as on the link
[14:44:16] <marmite> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7g7_OCDLq2I iam so ghetto bulder :D
[14:45:37] <LeelooMinai> lol, did you cut the edges so no one can read that tel number on your heand? :)
[14:46:43] <marmite> na its a mac adress :D
[14:46:57] <marmite> well the end digits
[14:47:21] <Connor> marmite: the rubber should only go under the part..
[14:47:32] <norias> wait
[14:47:38] <norias> which way was it cast?
[14:47:43] <marmite> what rubber?
[14:47:46] <norias> if it's die cast, it needs draft
[14:47:50] <norias> (the aluminum part)
[14:47:58] <marmite> its not casted
[14:48:00] <marmite> casted
[14:48:08] <marmite> there are milling marks on it
[14:48:19] <Connor> marmite: the black rubber around the edge....
[14:48:28] <norias> LelelooMinai said it was cast
[14:48:29] <Connor> you can remove it.. and place it around other spots.
[14:48:43] <marmite> yes i know
[14:48:51] <marmite> i have one on the end of the plastic that you dont see
[14:48:57] <PetefromTn_> marmite nice man..
[14:49:04] <marmite> PetefromTn_: ty ^^
[14:49:20] <marmite> works suprisingly well
[14:49:30] <marmite> that vacuum tank does so mutch :D
[14:49:43] <Connor> What does the tank do ?
[14:50:32] <PetefromTn_> it supposedly helps when you switch it on and off to help with a quick suck down so the compressor does not do all the work
[14:50:36] <LeelooMinai> I was talking about my spinfle bracket - it's cast, not that thingy... what is it even - some suction-based clamping system?
[14:50:54] <marmite> PetefromTn_: yeah ^^ iam going to have a valve to turn of and on.
[14:51:01] <marmite> and it helps even if there is a leak
[14:51:02] <PetefromTn_> but in that situation it is not doing too much I don't think but making it take longer to get suctioin
[14:51:04] <norias> LeelooMinai: yeah, your spindle bracket. I think it's die cast, and the 2mm is draft.
[14:51:22] <LeelooMinai> What is a draft? :)
[14:51:45] <marmite> PetefromTn_: rightnow it helps combat air leak
[14:51:49] <norias> The smiley face makes your question ambiguous to me.
[14:51:53] <norias> Do you really want to know?
[14:51:57] <norias> Or already know?
[14:52:16] <LeelooMinai> I know only of a draft made by leaving door open:)
[14:52:28] <LeelooMinai> And drafting paper?
[14:52:30] <norias> molds have to have an angle in them
[14:52:33] <PetefromTn_> draft is a taper basically
[14:52:39] <norias> so you can pull the part out
[14:52:48] <LeelooMinai> A, right, I see... that makes sense.
[14:52:57] <norias> die casting is like molding of aluminum (as opposed to sand cast)
[14:53:12] <norias> if you are trying to make that part cheap, and make millions
[14:53:15] <norias> i'd die cast it
[14:53:16] <LeelooMinai> I thought it's tapered to allow for some wedging maybe
[14:53:24] <norias> and i'd put a bunch of draft on it
[14:53:34] <norias> so that the parts fall right out of the die
[14:53:44] <norias> and the die design is simpler
[14:53:58] <norias> i.e. everything is as cheap as possible
[14:54:06] <LeelooMinai> Yes, now I get it - I was pretty sure the 2mm difference was there not by accident, because the whole bracket seems to be designed this way
[14:54:12] <norias> yeah
[14:54:39] <norias> and the assumption is that castings will be machined where they need to be precise
[14:54:49] <norias> although die casting can do pretty good
[14:55:26] <LeelooMinai> I need to make 4 holes for m8 screws in it using a drill press - I hope I do not mess it up
[14:55:33] <PetefromTn_> so the 2mm angle is along the long edge or vertically from the side along the short edge or the flange lip?
[14:55:59] <norias> "front to back" as the part is displayed
[14:56:00] <LeelooMinai> The flanges taper but the main body follows that taper too
[14:56:03] <norias> is my understanding
[14:56:12] <norias> think about the die for this
[14:56:24] <norias> you'd want the bored to be along the axis of pull for the die
[14:56:38] <PetefromTn_> yeah I understand how the die would be cast I am just not sure that is the taper she is talking about
[14:56:51] <norias> i think so
[14:57:06] <norias> i could be wrong, but that's the most reasonable thing i can see
[14:57:57] <LeelooMinai> Here's exaggerated view from top: http://i.imgur.com/3VYoXcK.png
[14:58:11] <PetefromTn_> either way it does not matter she is going to be drilling it in a drill press and screwing it down just can't rely on any of those tapered surfaces to be reference surfaces. if it does not appear to me machined it is not square or straight
[14:58:27] <norias> right
[14:58:51] <norias> i'd want to machine refference surfaces
[14:58:55] <norias> then machine the bore
[14:59:06] <norias> personally
[14:59:11] <LeelooMinai> There will be 4 holes, so they will not form a rectangle I guess - I will need to offset two of them so they are on the centre of the "lip"
[14:59:45] <norias> or make slots
[14:59:49] <PetefromTn_> sure... does the bored end have a flat surface square to the bored hole?
[14:59:54] <norias> never forget the power of slots
[15:00:08] <LeelooMinai> Slots where/what for?
[15:00:15] <norias> instead of through holes
[15:00:16] <PetefromTn_> so you can tram it in.
[15:00:36] <LeelooMinai> Making slots on a drill press is not really a good idea:)
[15:00:38] <PetefromTn_> unless your Z axis has adjustability built in
[15:00:43] <norias> you can do slots on a drill press
[15:00:51] <norias> drill two holes
[15:00:55] <norias> file the flat
[15:01:01] <PetefromTn_> you are going to want to make it adjustable somehow so you can make the spindle square to the table surface
[15:01:22] <LeelooMinai> I will have some adjustability as the holes will be 9mm for 8mm screws
[15:01:42] <norias> i'd make one hole tight
[15:01:43] <norias> er
[15:01:53] <norias> so it's a "pivot point"
[15:02:38] <LeelooMinai> Hmm, and how will it help?
[15:02:41] <PetefromTn_> I wouldn't
[15:03:15] <norias> debatable. I like to have one known pivot point in a setup
[15:03:26] <norias> Pete disagrees. Such is life.
[15:04:06] <LeelooMinai> Ok, I guess it's time to put the measurements on that thing
[15:04:13] <PetefromTn_> take a square and try to find the surface that is closest to perpendicular to the bore and reference that.. drill your holes with enough clearance to be able to adjust it enough
[15:04:58] <PetefromTn_> once you get it assembled and tram it in you can always add some alignement pins to help keep it located
[15:05:29] <LeelooMinai> Ok, thx - time for drilling:)
[15:09:00] <PetefromTn_> marmite is there some see thru plastic tubing in the groove near the top of the plastic sheet?
[15:14:33] <marmite> its black under there. but its on the edge of the plastic
[15:14:43] <PetefromTn_> Ok
[15:15:01] <PetefromTn_> what are the dimensions of that hold down plate?
[15:15:19] <marmite> http://www.ebay.com/itm/171653359607?_trksid=p2059210.m2749.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT it is this plate
[15:15:33] <marmite> 212z132 mm
[15:16:06] <PetefromTn_> Ok so like 5x7 inches or so..
[15:16:32] <marmite> 8,3 x 5.2
[15:16:55] <PetefromTn_> is that the clamping area? or the OD
[15:17:06] <marmite> oh dont know tbh
[15:17:27] <PetefromTn_> either way looks like it works nice
[15:17:37] <marmite> dont External Dimesnions- Measure: 212 x 132 x 12 mm
[15:17:38] <marmite> Clamping area: 200 x 120 mm
[15:18:02] <PetefromTn_> I am going to need to buy or make something like that here soon.
[15:18:33] <marmite> oh
[15:18:37] <marmite> great tables
[15:19:09] <marmite> http://www.ebay.com/itm/Vacuum-table-VT3020R-for-CNC-Machining-and-Milling-/171653359598?pt=UK_BOI_Metalworking_Milling_Welding_Metalworking_Supplies_ET&hash=item27f75667ee they have larger tables aswell
[15:19:12] <PetefromTn_> meeting with a customer here later this afternoon to get a deposit for some work and when I am finished I will be heading to Horrible Freight to get some sort of vacuum solution and hopefully they sell some kind of vacuum tubing.
[15:19:24] <marmite> ahh :)
[15:19:58] <PetefromTn_> yeah those do look nice actually but it says they may not ship to USA
[15:20:06] <marmite> ahh
[15:20:23] <marmite> theres gotta be a good seller in the usa for those kind of tables
[15:20:57] <PetefromTn_> yeah there are quite a few but most are real proud of their products hehe
[15:41:11] <Connor> PetefromTn_: You going to try to make your own vacuum table?
[15:42:44] <PetefromTn_> well actually yeah I am... I am however going to just make a dedicated fixture for this part to make two at a time on the machine as the run is not crazy just 50 parts or so
[15:43:25] <Connor> Is it the battery holder boxes?
[15:43:54] <PetefromTn_> no I have a fixture for those that uses a bolt down design already made a run of those...
[15:46:26] <Connor> oh okay.
[16:04:24] <Tom_itx> shouldn't be that difficult
[16:06:13] <Tom_itx> you don't need that whole grid they did on that one
[16:06:27] <Tom_itx> it just causes leaks if you don't plug the channels
[16:06:53] <PetefromTn_> actually this part will be getting a 2 part run dedicated fixture that will be kurt vise mounted
[16:07:13] <Tom_itx> if you're making one for a specific part it's pretty easy
[16:07:18] <PetefromTn_> but I would like to build or buy something like that Vacmagic VM300 pallet system for the machine
[16:07:26] <PetefromTn_> yeah it is easy
[16:07:59] <Tom_itx> my friend had a bolt down system but i forget who made the fixture screws for it
[16:08:18] <PetefromTn_> just gonna machine a series of slots inside the part perimeter interlocking to a center port that will be drilled and tapped thru to accept the vacuum fitting from underneath
[16:08:40] <Tom_itx> it's just 2 bolt hole grid patterns one threaded and the other reamed for dowels
[16:08:51] <Tom_itx> the threaded ones you can get various fixture clamps for
[16:09:03] <Tom_itx> even to hold your vise
[16:09:14] <zeeshan> tgif
[16:09:17] <PetefromTn_> link?
[16:09:22] <Tom_itx> agreed
[16:09:31] <Tom_itx> like i said, i don't remember the brand of fixtures
[16:09:38] <Tom_itx> it was a very nice setup though
[16:09:39] <PetefromTn_> OK
[16:09:40] <zeeshan> i hope to figure out this drawbar issue today
[16:09:47] <Tom_itx> compared to how we used to do it
[16:09:57] <PetefromTn_> I am pretty impressed with that VM300 system
[16:10:03] <Tom_itx> link?
[16:10:05] <PetefromTn_> it is the best of both worlds I think
[16:10:06] <MrSunshine> did some realtime tweaks to my linuxcnc computer ... and the stepper motors sounds totaly different now when moving than before =)
[16:10:07] <MrSunshine> nice nice =)
[16:10:39] <PetefromTn_> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-tNc0zom0xM
[16:11:14] <Tom_itx> everything's gotta be a video anymore it seems....
[16:11:34] <PetefromTn_> tells the story better...
[16:11:40] <zeeshan> hell no
[16:11:53] <zeeshan> if supplements a pdf :-)
[16:11:54] <Tom_itx> i got no sound anyway
[16:12:04] <zeeshan> Tom_itx: why no sound
[16:12:12] <Tom_itx> not on this pc
[16:12:38] <Tom_itx> i wouldn't pay for the fancy tooling... i'd make it
[16:12:50] <PetefromTn_> I plan to
[16:12:58] <PetefromTn_> but even that won't be cheap
[16:13:20] <Tom_itx> all we did was make aluminum plates to fit the parts we needed to vaccuum hold
[16:13:26] <PetefromTn_> gonna take a large thick base plate for the main part
[16:13:27] <Tom_itx> which weren't that many
[16:13:37] <Tom_itx> large thin aluminum usually
[16:13:40] <PetefromTn_> then another plate to hold it down with...
[16:13:54] <zeeshan> just looks like a plate w/ holes in it :P
[16:13:57] <zeeshan> and a vacuum nanifold
[16:13:58] <Tom_itx> fine if you have lots of Z
[16:13:59] <zeeshan> manifold
[16:14:17] <PetefromTn_> it actually has the venturi and stuff inside the base
[16:14:26] <PetefromTn_> it is honestly very well done IMHOP
[16:14:33] <zeeshan> wait
[16:14:38] <PetefromTn_> wish I could afford it
[16:14:40] <zeeshan> it uses air flow to generate vacuum?
[16:14:48] <PetefromTn_> but they want almost 3k for the damn thing
[16:14:51] <PetefromTn_> yeah
[16:14:55] <Tom_itx> takes alot of air
[16:15:00] <zeeshan> thats a pretty crappy way of generating vacuum
[16:15:02] <PetefromTn_> 70PSI
[16:15:08] <Tom_itx> and vaccuum pumps are noisy as all getout
[16:15:11] <zeeshan> psi has nothing to do with it
[16:15:24] <PetefromTn_> I'm fully aware how it works
[16:15:32] <zeeshan> then you should know psi has nothing to do with it
[16:15:34] <PetefromTn_> just telling you
[16:15:45] <Tom_itx> we had a large tankless screw compressor in a room by itself so air was never a problem
[16:15:56] <PetefromTn_> you can research the product if you want or not
[16:16:12] <zeeshan> i dont need to research the product to understand basic fluid principles
[16:16:23] <Tom_itx> it sucks
[16:16:24] <Tom_itx> :D
[16:16:30] <zeeshan> that generating vacuum using venturi is grossly inefficient
[16:16:40] <zeeshan> a vacuum pump is a far better option
[16:16:54] <PetefromTn_> OK
[16:16:56] <Tom_itx> PetefromTn_, those mitee bite products were very similar to what my friend uses
[16:17:07] <PetefromTn_> yeah I really like those too
[16:17:10] <zeeshan> Tom_itx: those screw compressors are sexy
[16:17:12] <zeeshan> but $$$$$$4
[16:17:14] <zeeshan> theyre so quiet
[16:17:15] <PetefromTn_> they make a lot of good stuff
[16:17:24] <Tom_itx> this one wasn't quiet
[16:17:28] <Tom_itx> it was big
[16:17:33] <zeeshan> 150 cfm ?
[16:17:39] <zeeshan> i was next one that did 150 cfm
[16:17:40] <Tom_itx> that's why we put it in a room by itself
[16:17:45] <zeeshan> it just humms
[16:17:45] <zeeshan> haha
[16:17:47] <Tom_itx> i don't know the cfm but it was alot
[16:18:35] <PetefromTn_> that vacuum pallet system would be kickass on my Cincinatti
[16:18:50] <Tom_itx> if you need alot of parts that need vaccuum held
[16:18:52] <PetefromTn_> a fixture for vacuum clamping, a fixture for vise hold down etc..
[16:19:04] <PetefromTn_> not really
[16:19:13] <Tom_itx> otherwise you're just wasting power clamping something
[16:19:25] <PetefromTn_> think of it as a quick change pallet system moreso than just a vacuum clamping
[16:19:41] <Tom_itx> factor that in your part cost too
[16:19:42] <zeeshan> PetefromTn_: correct me if im wrong
[16:20:00] <zeeshan> but cant you just drill a buncha holes in a plate that connect to a vacuum manifold
[16:20:09] <zeeshan> and have a seal around the whole thing and hook it up to a vac pump
[16:20:17] <zeeshan> and do the same thing?
[16:20:32] <Tom_itx> got me an S5 couple days ago, not much different than the S4 but i'm kinda liking it...
[16:20:42] <Connor> S5 ?
[16:20:44] <PetefromTn_> there are lots of ways to make a vacuum plate man..
[16:20:44] <zeeshan> Tom_itx: does it have sound?
[16:20:51] <Tom_itx> of course it does
[16:20:53] <Tom_itx> it's a phone
[16:20:54] <zeeshan> :-) im trolling
[16:20:55] <zeeshan> hahaha
[16:20:57] <Tom_itx> silly
[16:21:03] <zeeshan> did you get a package yet
[16:21:07] <Tom_itx> no
[16:21:14] <Tom_itx> not from china eitehr
[16:21:30] <Tom_itx> they'll both probably get here the same time
[16:21:34] <zeeshan> you know i have never done a calculation like this
[16:21:42] <Tom_itx> the one from china has been stuck in chicago all week
[16:21:44] <zeeshan> if you have 29 inhg vac pressure
[16:21:45] <Tom_itx> probably customs
[16:21:49] <zeeshan> how much clamping force you hjave
[16:22:03] <zeeshan> vac pressure => vacuum i mean
[16:22:07] <Tom_itx> depends on the surface area
[16:22:12] <zeeshan> "lack of pressure"
[16:22:45] <PetefromTn_> well gotta go meet with customer right now..
[16:23:08] <PetefromTn_> BBL
[16:23:10] <zeeshan> so 29 inHg = 14.243psi
[16:23:31] <zeeshan> whoops
[16:25:05] <MrSunshine> 14.2 pounds per square inch in holding force. .. becomes quite a bit with surface area =)
[16:25:15] <Deejay> gn8
[16:28:23] <andypugh> I am going to have to start wearing warmer boots in the workshop, should be worth a couple more hours until I decide I have done enoujgh for the night.
[16:28:42] <zeeshan> correct me if im wrong but, assuming perfect vacuum & 10 holes of 1/2" diameter, the clamping force will be F = 14.7*10*(pi/4)(.5)^2 = 28.86 lb
[16:28:49] <zeeshan> something seems off
[16:28:55] <zeeshan> thats not much clamping
[16:29:15] <andypugh> 10 1/2” holes isn’t much area
[16:29:46] <zeeshan> even if its 40 holes
[16:30:02] <zeeshan> thats like 120lb
[16:30:02] <Tom_itx> andypugh what you working on now?
[16:30:15] <andypugh> But you are likely to get the full flat surface of the part as area rather than just the holes.
[16:30:26] <zeeshan> why
[16:30:29] <andypugh> Tom_itx: Finishing off the headlights for the Ner-a-car
[16:30:39] <zeeshan> i guess you have a seal around it
[16:30:40] <Tom_itx> ahh i thought you were done with those
[16:30:45] <zeeshan> to raise the part up slightly.
[16:30:45] <unfy> a 1/2 inch hole has a surface area of ~ 1/5th of an inch ?
[16:30:46] <zeeshan> gotcha.
[16:30:58] <Tom_itx> zeeshan we sealed the perimeter and any pocket cutouts
[16:31:00] <unfy> er, 1/5th square inches
[16:31:05] <Tom_itx> it would pull on the whole part
[16:31:06] <andypugh> I made the shells, but they have brackets and fittings to hold the fronts on etc.
[16:31:35] <unfy> so... 10 of those get you a 2 square inches ?
[16:31:57] <unfy> that's not a whole lot of of area for a clamp.
[16:32:01] <zeeshan> okay ill gage an idea of how much clamp force there is. take a sample 6"x6"x.125" 6061 al plate, so its just F = 14.7*6*6 = 97lb
[16:32:18] <zeeshan> a hell of a lot less than
[16:32:20] <zeeshan> 2 toe clamps
[16:32:20] <zeeshan> :D
[16:32:43] <Tom_itx> it's spread over a larger surface area
[16:32:55] <andypugh> Tom_itx: https://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo/JqMiezKZO-Cwmt1JMMShgdMTjNZETYmyPJy0liipFm0?feat=directlink
[16:32:57] <zeeshan> well im assuming 6x6 flat square plate
[16:33:00] <zeeshan> so thats the surface area..
[16:33:21] <zeeshan> andypugh: they look nice
[16:33:23] <zeeshan> can i have one
[16:33:25] <unfy> zee: he's saying a toe clamp's surface area is tiny compared to your 6x6 plate
[16:33:25] <zeeshan> :-)
[16:33:38] <Tom_itx> andypugh, those are nice.. did you make castings for them?
[16:34:06] <andypugh> No, the brackets are turned on a lathe, milled to shape, then bent to the right curve.
[16:34:51] <andypugh> I can’t decide if I want to get into casting to make the mating parts.
[16:36:42] <zeeshan> so a fair comparison would be, lets say 2 toe clamps, 4000lb each, contact area of .5"x.5" , 32000 psi total, take that F = 32000psi*
[16:36:45] <zeeshan> er
[16:36:53] <zeeshan> assuming 8000 lb toe clamp force
[16:37:10] <zeeshan> if you normalize it over 6"x6", you end up getting 222lb
[16:37:24] <zeeshan> so vacuum clamping seems prretty good now!
[16:37:30] <zeeshan> nice.
[16:37:39] <andypugh> I don’t trust your normalisation.
[16:37:46] <zeeshan> haha its a really crapppy way
[16:37:46] <Tom_itx> tape works too
[16:37:55] <zeeshan> but im trying to get a relative sense.
[16:38:39] <andypugh> You need to compare 222 x mu with 4000. Which looks worse.
[16:38:54] <zeeshan> why friction
[16:39:04] <Tom_itx> that much force on a toe clamp will cause warping too
[16:39:33] <andypugh> Because you are trying to counteract cutting forces, not forces lifting the workpiece.
[16:39:47] <zeeshan> GOOD point
[16:39:55] <zeeshan> okay vacuum table looks not as good anymore again :(
[16:40:10] <zeeshan> but it does have the advantage like tom is saying of uniform clamping
[16:40:14] <zeeshan> which is pretty important for thin stuff
[16:40:31] <zeeshan> so basically when using vacuum tables, take it easy
[16:40:38] <andypugh> Look at it this way instead. How much force can you hang on the end of that 1/4” carbide bit before it snaps?
[16:40:51] <Tom_itx> you're not gonna be taking 3/8" passes with a shell mill on those types of parts
[16:41:39] <andypugh> If you prefer, put the cut parameters into this web page, it calculates cutting forces: http://zero-divide.net/?page=fswizard
[16:41:57] <Tom_itx> i have that on my phone
[16:42:00] <Tom_itx> i like it
[16:42:25] <zeeshan> im taking a class right now
[16:42:37] <zeeshan> i hope in the end ill understand the formulas behind that webapge
[16:42:37] <zeeshan> :P
[16:43:46] <zeeshan> http://i.imgur.com/Ykt0NMu.png
[16:43:55] <zeeshan> i wish i didnt sell that round column mill
[16:44:01] <zeeshan> i need to make those drive keys
[16:44:10] <zeeshan> i might have to turn this on the lathe
[16:44:22] <zeeshan> and then just weld on keys
[16:44:35] <andypugh> How many do you need?
[16:44:39] <Tom_itx> one
[16:44:41] <zeeshan> just one
[16:44:44] <zeeshan> its my adjustment tool
[16:44:47] <zeeshan> for the drawbar
[16:45:17] <andypugh> I would turn it on the lathe then make the drive dogs with a hacksaw.
[16:45:35] <zeeshan> thats not a bad idea
[16:45:39] <zeeshan> it doesnt need to precise
[16:45:40] <andypugh> It’s only 4 cuts with the saw. Then perhaps a bit of filing. Don’t disparage hand-work.
[16:46:03] <zeeshan> well its not much material to cut with a hack saw either..
[16:46:16] <zeeshan> i'm pretty imprecise with one though :)
[16:46:34] <Jymmm> ss?al?
[16:46:40] <Jymmm> ss? al?
[16:46:41] <zeeshan> prolly make it out of steel
[16:46:52] <andypugh> I made a similar thing with 4 x 3/8” dogs on a 2.5” diameter the other weekend. That was rather more work with the saw.
[16:47:01] <zeeshan> what for
[16:47:48] <andypugh> The valve caps on this engine: http://hmvf.co.uk/forumvb/showthread.php?47662-1914-Dennis-Lorry&p=433535#post433535
[16:48:22] <andypugh> (There is even one out and loose)
[16:48:25] <furrywolf> yay, van window re-sealed. I both love and hate ribbon sealer.
[16:48:29] <zeeshan> andypugh: i really want your macros working
[16:48:34] <zeeshan> i keep on having to make these simple parts using mastercam
[16:48:35] <zeeshan> ;[
[16:48:38] <zeeshan> or typing code by hand
[16:49:39] <andypugh> I realised tonight that the reinstall lost me the handy capapility of typing -3/8in and getting the answer in mm. I need to reinstate that.
[16:49:46] <furrywolf> anyone ever used ribbon sealer? it's this rope of black goo. it sticks to everything instantly, stretches, mushes, does the pizza cheese thing if you pull it apart,..
[16:50:04] <andypugh> Sounds tasty.
[16:55:48] <Jymmm> furrywolf: dk grey in color, paper liner ?
[16:56:00] <Jymmm> comes coiled?
[16:56:10] <furrywolf> pitch black in color, paper liner, coiled
[16:56:27] <Tom_itx> andypugh, do you know the guy with the Lorry?
[16:57:04] <Jymmm> furrywolf: Eh, the stuff I've seen/used works, last years ever under sun/wet, after about 10 years dries and cracks a bit,
[16:58:08] <Jymmm> furrywolf: never completely dries out like glazier putty does.
[16:58:39] <furrywolf> this stuff never dries either. at least, the oldest vehicle I've taken apart with it was about 30 years old, and it was still stretchy and gooey..
[16:59:09] <Jymmm> Yeah, sounds rigth. only the surface layer becomes "cracked"
[16:59:30] <furrywolf> http://solutions.3m.com/wps/portal/3M/en_US/Marine/Home/Products/AAD-Catalog/?PC_Z7_RJH9U52300F3F02NHKM5JS2ON1000000_nid=TTRQWFZZZFbeQH8HT14PGTgl
[16:59:32] <Jymmm> Good for sealing up aluminum panels on RV/trailers, etc
[17:00:05] <Jymmm> Although, today, I'd use silicone
[17:00:22] <andypugh> Tom_itx: Yes, he is a friend from college.
[17:01:05] <Tom_itx> what year is it?
[17:01:29] <Jymmm> furrywolf: clean surface, kneed, apply, done. no need to wait to dry/cure.
[17:01:36] <Tom_itx> ahh nm 1914
[17:02:39] <furrywolf> my van window uses this stuff to seal and bolts to hold the glass in place.
[17:04:07] <Jymmm> furrywolf: THIS is what I was thinking... http://www.campingworld.com/shopping/item/putty-tape-1-w-x-30l/4698
[17:05:37] <furrywolf> I've used that stuff on rvs. it's not a tenth as gooey, sticky, or messy as ribbon sealer. heh.
[17:05:53] <furrywolf> it also cracks much sooner
[17:05:59] <Jymmm> Yeah, totally different things/applications
[17:07:00] <Jymmm> But that "putty tape" is kinda unusual unless you've worked with it before.
[17:07:55] <zeeshan> i use gooap sealant
[17:07:58] <zeeshan> goop
[17:08:12] <zeeshan> http://www.autowares.com/images/product/GOOP/goop-160016-400.jpg
[17:08:37] <Jymmm> zeeshan: does it work wet/underwater?
[17:08:59] <zeeshan> it should because its meant to be used for the plastic liner behind your door panel
[17:09:03] <zeeshan> that keeps water from inside your car
[17:09:22] <Jymmm> zeeshan: once cured. But I mean when applying
[17:09:30] <zeeshan> no idea on that :)
[17:10:35] <furrywolf> most liquid products don't work underwater. Mr Sticky's Underwater Epoxy (or some very similar name) does, as does many asphalt products, like wet patch.
[17:10:43] <Jymmm> zeeshan: http://www.amazon.com/J-B-Weld-8277-WaterWeld-Underwater/dp/B000BRQ0TW/ref=pd_bxgy_auto_text_y
[17:12:19] <Jymmm> Same with http://www.harborfreight.com/j-b-stik-weld-93957.html
[17:12:29] <furrywolf> jb's stick weld is utterly fucking worthless.
[17:12:32] <furrywolf> in water or out.
[17:12:52] <Jymmm> on what?
[17:13:13] <furrywolf> materials, objects, solids,...
[17:13:19] <furrywolf> it's just plain worthless.
[17:13:37] <Jymmm> metal? ceramic?
[17:13:46] <furrywolf> yes
[17:13:47] <Jymmm> mason?
[17:13:57] <furrywolf> what part of worthless do you not understand?
[17:14:09] <Jymmm> you definition.
[17:14:12] <Jymmm> tour
[17:14:32] <Jymmm> you embelish way too much to be taken at face value =)
[17:14:54] <Jymmm> It might be like crazy glue, which is not for everything
[17:15:14] <furrywolf> I have never had it successfully stick to anything. as far as I can tell, its only value is that it holds the shape you set it in, and is more useful as a molding compound than an adhesive.
[17:15:28] <furrywolf> it doesn't stick at all, but it does set in the shape you set it, with minimal shrinkage, rock hard.
[17:15:45] <Jymmm> Nice, that might actually be a good thing/use
[17:16:58] <furrywolf> I think it's just a fundamental issue with stick epoxies... by being very stiff, they can't fill the tiny irregularities on surfaces that result in good bonds, instead just sitting on the high points.
[17:17:38] <Jymmm> JB used to have the blk/wht two part putty, I haven't seen that in years.
[17:17:59] <Jymmm> might be good for filler
[17:18:25] <Jymmm> just needs an agressive edge to bite into.
[17:19:10] <Jymmm> I wonder if you could fix a tail pipe?
[17:19:18] <furrywolf> my sticky's underwater epoxy is... unique. it dries very soft. doesn't hold up well to high temperatures or antifreeze, however.
[17:19:21] <furrywolf> no
[17:19:34] <Jymmm> ah
[17:19:38] <furrywolf> well, a tail pipe maybe, but not a manifold, which is what always cracks anyway. :P
[17:20:02] <Jymmm> Eh, you know the CO into the passanger compart thing =)
[17:20:32] <furrywolf> I have tried many things to fixed cracked exhaust manifolds, with zero success. high temp epoxy just burns. silica products crack.
[17:20:47] <Jymmm> silicone?
[17:21:06] <furrywolf> silicone would burn instantly.
[17:21:18] <furrywolf> exhaust manifolds get HOT.
[17:21:24] <Jymmm> Have you ever taken a torch to cured silicone?
[17:21:42] <Jymmm> silicone is just unoxidized sand
[17:21:53] <furrywolf> ... no, it's not. lol
[17:22:22] <furrywolf> you can buy high-temp silicone. it's usually copper-colored. it's still rated for far cooler than an exhaust manifold gets.
[17:22:24] <Jymmm> boiing point ​5909 °F)
[17:22:44] <Jymmm> if your engine gets that hot, you got bigger issues =)
[17:22:45] <furrywolf> silicone exposed to exhaust browns and cracks quickly.
[17:23:41] <furrywolf> you can buy silicone tubing for nitro engines, and even there it fails, just not quickly.
[17:23:54] <Jymmm> NFC if it has a chemical reaction.
[17:24:19] <furrywolf> exhaust leaving the engine is HOT.
[17:24:25] <furrywolf> the exhaust manifold is HOT.
[17:24:58] <furrywolf> exhaust parts glowing cherry red is not uncommon.
[17:25:22] <Jymmm> sure, so areounf 1200F.
[17:25:45] <PCW> HT silicone is what 600F max?
[17:26:01] <furrywolf> somewhere around there, yes
[17:26:01] <Jymmm> regular is 572F
[17:26:20] <furrywolf> anyway, I speak from experience. you can not silicone an exhaust manifold. :P
[17:26:31] <Jymmm> unless they are doing the mareting gimmick thing
[17:26:35] <furrywolf> I even tried aluminum and it burnt that.
[17:26:50] <furrywolf> wrapping it with foil and hoseclamping it.
[17:27:10] <Jymmm> 650F close enough http://www.permatex.com/products-2/product-categories/gasketing/gasket-makers/permatex-high-temp-red-rtv-silicone-gasket-detail
[17:27:54] * furrywolf wonders what, exactly, jymm's point is
[17:28:29] <CaptHindsight> furrywolf: do you want an epoxy that works/cures under water?
[17:28:35] <PCW> polyimide would fare better but dont think there are any rubbery polyimides
[17:28:43] <furrywolf> capt: no, someone else was asking about it.
[17:28:57] <Jymmm> I've used silicone around 900F, but not sustained. I thought it was higher temp than exhaust manifold.
[17:29:20] <furrywolf> the only things that withstand the temperature on a manifold are the silica/ceramic/etc stuffs, and they're all too brittle and crack with thermal expansion.
[17:29:30] <CaptHindsight> how about sodium silicate?
[17:30:09] <CaptHindsight> well yeah if the manifold flexes, depends on the size of the crack as well
[17:30:10] <furrywolf> that would be one of the silicas, yes. :P
[17:30:26] <CaptHindsight> we used to weld them
[17:31:00] <PCW> Hmm didnt know there were polyimide photoresists
[17:31:44] <Jymmm> Stove Seal is rated at 3000F, says non cracking http://www.jacomanufacturing.com/?a=prod
[17:32:26] <CaptHindsight> refractory cements
[17:33:33] <furrywolf> stove seal cracks everywhere it's used, even stoves. heh.
[17:35:48] <furrywolf> capt: welded cast iron manifolds have an annoying habbit of promptly recracking...
[17:36:38] <CaptHindsight> use the old one as a mold and sand cast
[17:37:11] <andypugh> Melting cast iron is not trivial in a domestic kitchen.
[17:37:47] <CaptHindsight> I have a feeling andy has done it there
[17:38:02] <andypugh> No, I have never actually done any casting at home.
[17:38:21] <furrywolf> heh, my solution was to find someone with a non-cracked manifold, and give them $40.
[17:38:23] <andypugh> I have tended to work at places with foundries.
[17:38:52] <furrywolf> rather than cast, if I had to fab one, I'd do welded tube...
[17:38:56] <andypugh> (Not that I have access to the casting plant at Ford, sadly)
[17:38:57] <furrywolf> aka headers. :)
[17:39:17] <CaptHindsight> andypugh: how do you think that they cast these? http://openlunchbox.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/11/T60chassis_01.jpg
[17:39:26] <CaptHindsight> it's about 12" x 12"
[17:39:36] <andypugh> Pressure die-castng
[17:40:43] <furrywolf> bah. looks like I'm tinting my own van window. both local places that do tinting want $50 for a fixed window that's less than 2ft square. fuck that.
[17:41:07] <CaptHindsight> $5 for materials, $45 labor
[17:41:11] <unfy> ^
[17:41:21] <furrywolf> for what, 10 minutes?
[17:42:17] <unfy> 10 minutes of skilled labor that doesn't fuck it up ? sure. or, round up to nearest half or full hour etc.
[17:43:06] <furrywolf> I'm not going to work four hours so someone else can work ten minutes. period.
[17:43:17] <unfy> then do it yourself.
[17:43:20] <CaptHindsight> zeeshan: any success yet?
[17:43:25] <andypugh> I think I need to either cast or 4-axis machine these: http://ibin.co/1pyfQvvhtJmK
[17:44:03] <furrywolf> if it were $20, sure... $25, maybe... $50? that's just insulting.
[17:44:18] <CaptHindsight> aluminininium?
[17:44:37] <andypugh> Maybe I need to use the 30-day trial of 5-axis Inventor CAM. Inventor HSM express is OK for 2.5D, rather more “model aware” than CamBam.
[17:44:50] <andypugh> CaptHindsight: Brass
[17:45:30] <andypugh> I am considering having the pattern 3D-printed.
[17:46:11] <CaptHindsight> then lost wax cast?
[17:46:16] <andypugh> Sand cast
[17:46:46] <andypugh> (actually, I am also thinking about making a sand-printer or a plaster-printer too.
[17:47:01] <CaptHindsight> I'm thinking about sand casting a similar magnesium chassis
[17:47:01] <renesis> heh @ sand printer
[17:47:04] <andypugh> But I sort-of want this finished in weeks not months.
[17:47:09] <renesis> how does that work?
[17:47:24] <CaptHindsight> inkjets binder into sand
[17:47:52] <andypugh> renesis: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z8MaVaqNr3U
[17:47:53] <renesis> then bring the sand up over the bound layer?
[17:47:55] <CaptHindsight> spread a layer of sand, inkjet binder, spread later, inkjet etc etc
[17:48:07] <unfy> or: black magic :D
[17:48:30] <unfy> i've watched plenty of videos that do it and i still say it's an evil black art :P
[17:49:13] <CaptHindsight> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S6OZXdRoogY Ford 3D Printing
[17:49:24] <unfy> those 3d printers that basically uv cure a resin and "pull" the shape out of a liquid ? them thar things are magical / pretty
[17:50:16] <renesis> ive worked with uv cured resin
[17:50:23] <CaptHindsight> unfy: SLA, using lasers, DLP or LCD projectors
[17:50:32] <renesis> kind of sucks structurally
[17:50:43] <renesis> and some people are allergic
[17:50:54] <unfy> then don't make sex toys out of your resins
[17:50:56] <CaptHindsight> renesis: depends on the resin
[17:51:00] <unfy> cap: that'd be it
[17:51:07] <unfy> (lcd vers)
[17:51:28] <renesis> unfy: if you get a $250k so the ID people can work through concepts, and it makes the head ID girl itchy, its not ideal
[17:51:30] <furrywolf> but making sex toys is half the fun of owning machine tools. :(
[17:51:45] <Rab> Can anyone lend any insight into configuring the HAL for CW/CCW signals instead of step/dir?
[17:51:45] <renesis> $250k printer
[17:51:53] <unfy> renesis: as long as the head id girl's name isn't jen, it's all good
[17:52:14] <renesis> and like i said it sucked structurally, couldnt put svcrews into it, couldnt cut it, thin walls kinda meh
[17:52:17] <andypugh> I know a guy who build an SLA printer to do lost-wax castings of tiny components.
[17:52:21] <Rab> I see that stepgen supports signal type "1" for CW/CCW, but I can't find any documentation of what the pins are supposed to be named.
[17:52:35] <CaptHindsight> you can diy a DLP or LCD printer for $1K, the projector is the most expensive part
[17:52:46] <andypugh> He has made an unusually high-res small-volume printer all with servos and proper structure
[17:52:52] <renesis> andypugh: cool
[17:52:56] <renesis> SLA is sex
[17:52:57] <unfy> rab: eh ? "dir" would be basically cw vs ccw ?
[17:53:21] <andypugh> Sorry, I didn’t mean SLA. That wouldbe cool. I meant DLP.
[17:53:43] <andypugh> Rab: Just set the stepgen to type 2.
[17:54:23] <andypugh> sorry, I mean type 1
[17:54:38] <CaptHindsight> radcure is used in lots of applications to replace solvents and heat cure
[17:54:53] <andypugh> Rab: loadrt stepgen step_type=1,1,1 instead of 0,0,0
[17:55:18] <andypugh> Rab, Sorry, it’s pin names you want?
[17:55:28] <andypugh> Easy way to find out :-)
[17:55:30] <CaptHindsight> you can fully cure a coating in under 1 second
[17:55:31] <andypugh> halrun
[17:55:38] <Rab> andypugh, correct.
[17:55:50] <andypugh> loadrt stepgen step_type=0
[17:55:53] <andypugh> show pin
[17:55:55] <andypugh> exit
[17:56:22] <andypugh> (err, type=1, of course)
[17:57:06] <LeelooMinai> In what situations are those vaccum tables used instead of just clamping stuff?
[17:57:12] <andypugh> 6 s32 OUT 0 stepgen.0.counts
[17:57:13] <andypugh> 6 bit OUT FALSE stepgen.0.down
[17:57:14] <andypugh> 6 bit IN FALSE stepgen.0.enable
[17:57:15] <andypugh> 6 float IN 0 stepgen.0.position-cmd
[17:57:16] <andypugh> 6 float OUT 0 stepgen.0.position-fb
[17:57:17] <andypugh> 6 bit OUT FALSE stepgen.0.up
[17:57:33] <renesis> leeloominai: large format routing tables use them
[17:57:47] <LeelooMinai> I mean those tiny tables
[17:57:58] <LeelooMinai> That were linked before
[17:58:06] <renesis> oh didnt see
[17:58:24] <CaptHindsight> smaller flat parts
[17:58:29] <renesis> convenient i guess, for engraving would make setups fast
[17:58:35] <andypugh> We used them for holding chip dies for mechanical testing (pulling off gold-wire bonds, that sort of thing)
[17:58:58] <CaptHindsight> you are limited of course by ~30psi max holding force
[17:59:17] <andypugh> Not if you do it underwater
[17:59:28] <Rab> andypugh, I'm using Machinekit and those pin names don't seem to match the syntax in the existing HAL file.
[17:59:36] <andypugh> Or, for that matter, at high ambient air pressure
[17:59:40] <LeelooMinai> Well, I just watched one case where those were needed, but this was rather strange as the guy was making some bearing cages on Tormach in plastic:) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eifVwXr7AGk
[17:59:52] <Rab> For instance, I have (for type 0 step/dir):
[17:59:53] <Rab> setp hpg.stepgen.00.dirpin 812
[17:59:59] <Rab> setp hpg.stepgen.00.steppin 813
[18:00:07] <furrywolf> 30psi? where, underwater? :)
[18:00:09] <CaptHindsight> andypugh: sure, but most people don't have their shops under water :p
[18:00:16] <andypugh> Rab: What stepgen are you using
[18:00:46] <Rab> andypugh, I have no idea. I'm a newbie at LinuxCNC config. :(
[18:01:04] <andypugh> It sounds like you are not using LinuxCNC at all.
[18:01:19] <andypugh> I have no idea what the hpg stepgen is
[18:01:43] <JT-Shop> hmm my crucible is made in Worchester England
[18:02:35] <andypugh> China?
[18:02:45] <furrywolf> bbl, auto parts store.
[18:03:44] <andypugh> Rab: Look at your HAL file, change the loadrt hpg.stepgen (at a guess) to type 1 then insert “show pin” on the next line, see which pins it has given you.
[18:03:54] <Rab> andypugh, this is the HAL file I'm working from: https://github.com/machinekit/machinekit/blob/master/configs/ARM/BeagleBone/CRAMPS/CRAMPS.hal
[18:04:24] <JT-Shop> machinekit
[18:05:01] <andypugh> Rab: Sorry, I have no idea. I have never found any docs for Machinekit.
[18:05:30] <Rab> andypugh, that's OK. Thanks for your help.
[18:05:48] <andypugh> But have a look in the INI under [PRUCONF] to see if step-type is documented there
[18:05:57] <andypugh> Sorry, defined, not documented
[18:08:21] <andypugh> I wouldn’t want to guarantee that the PRU stepgen even does up/down mode
[18:09:22] * Rab sweats
[18:10:08] <andypugh> Why are you using a BBB anyway? I don’t really see what they are good for.
[18:10:09] <Rab> I guess in the worst case scenario, I can make a hardware dongle to convert step/dir to CW/CCW.
[18:10:59] <Rab> It's compact and has a lot of real-time IO, thanks to the PRUs. It seemed like a win over having to select and maintain a desktop PC.
[18:11:36] <andypugh> I think that Machinekit have some documentation, but they have chosen to hide it somewhere completely different to under “Documentation” at www.machinekit.io. I really don’t know what they are playing at.
[18:12:20] <_methods> why don't they have #machinekit........
[18:12:46] <andypugh> Or a forum? Or docs?
[18:13:03] <andypugh> There is a mailing list. You might have to ask there
[18:13:06] <Rab> I think it's still under heavy development. The image I'm using from this month has some significant fundamental changes from the last version.
[18:13:21] <Rab> I think most discussion happens on a Google Group.
[18:13:41] <unfy> methods: you linked some awesome looking $5 jewler's loops mounted on eyeglass frames the other day -- i wanted to point out that they probably suck (functionally). in the example video, the guy always has the frame stablized by a hand when lookinag stuff
[18:13:52] <andypugh> Yeah, they are obsessed with chasing the new-shiny and don’t seem to care about explaining how to make it actually work.
[18:13:55] <_methods> i'm sure they do lol
[18:14:02] <_methods> they were on aliexpress heheh
[18:14:07] <_methods> i just wanted them for halloween
[18:14:17] <unfy> DX i think not AX :D
[18:14:25] <_methods> one of those 2 heheh
[18:14:39] <_methods> i was going to wear them to work
[18:14:52] <_methods> and to bed
[18:16:13] <_methods> i see one of the machinekit guys lurking in here
[18:16:21] <unfy> as a costume for work (embedded coder), that'd be awesome yeah
[18:16:26] <_methods> they never answer any questions when one of their lost children enter
[18:18:35] <_methods> http://www.themaindrain.com/
[18:19:05] <Rab> Haha, what bastards: https://github.com/machinekit/machinekit/blob/master/src/hal/drivers/hal_pru_generic/pru_updown.p
[18:19:12] <Rab> I guess that answers my question.
[18:20:22] <andypugh> Try the mailing list. It can’t be _that_ much harder to do updown than step-dir.
[18:23:10] <renesis> rab: nice
[18:27:32] <andypugh> The stepdir PRU code isn’t very long. It might not be very hard to find where the pin-state is written and do it differently.
[18:30:12] <andypugh> Right, I have things to do tomorrow, night all
[18:44:39] <unfy> so i start to look into building an electronics workbench thing... and i hit $160 easily ._.
[18:45:02] <unfy> and that's just metal frame and a decent piece of plywood for the benchtop ._.
[18:47:55] <renesis> uline benches are that price
[18:50:43] <unfy> so far, not seeing anything from uline that i like
[18:53:50] <unfy> granted, $160 gets me 2 steel frame sides, 6 cross beams, and a sheet of wood that will cover both the table and "ceiling" of the thing. should give me 48"x30" working space at 6 feet tall
[18:54:32] <unfy> would then need to add backing, lighting, power distribution, antistatic mat, etc
[18:56:38] <unfy> would also be a bit of shelving to figure out
[19:00:06] <_methods> workbenches are expensive
[19:00:07] <_methods> i used and old server rack PDU for my power lol
[19:01:24] <renesis> i think they have most of that stuff
[19:02:22] <renesis> i get the 48" tripp lite strips and screw them to the back edge, i dont use the outlet breakouts in the legs
[19:02:56] <renesis> but yeah prob end up being closer to $400
[19:03:08] <unfy> i'll have to get the thing built then try to figure out how i wanna do power and shelving and small parts bins (if at all) et
[19:03:33] <renesis> small parts pins is the other reason i like the power strips
[19:03:55] <renesis> they keep the stacking akro bins from pushing off the back of the bench
[19:04:54] <unfy> i've got ~20 of the akro bins, and a hanger contraption cabinety thingie for them - but i just can't bring myself to find a use for it.
[19:06:14] <unfy> maybe i could move some of my larger hardware stuff to it (as in 1/4" and bigger nuts and bolts etc)
[19:06:20] <renesis> throw solder wick and spools in one, put gel flux and sticks by itself in another by themselves (gets messy)
[19:06:50] <renesis> then usually one for picks, spudgers, xacto knifes, little files
[19:07:09] <unfy> i do most of that in small parts bins or little storage boxes
[19:07:13] <renesis> another for pens, sharpies, postits, inspection dots and shit
[19:07:40] <renesis> yeah i just mean on a bench
[19:08:08] <renesis> normal akro bins kind of too big for small parts and too small for cables
[19:08:11] <unfy> i guess i'll get the 'foundation' built and then go about by "feel" with what i might wanna do for organization as time goes on heh
[19:08:31] <renesis> these...
[19:08:38] <_methods> yeah a workbench is a work in progress all the time
[19:08:54] <renesis> http://www.amazon.com/Sterilite-16428012-6-Quart-Storage-See-Through/dp/B002BDTETW
[19:09:06] <renesis> and yeah, what _methods said
[19:09:16] <_methods> i use those for project bins
[19:09:17] <unfy> since i'm using a small 12" x 16" wooden free standing/folding TV dinner tray thing right now :P
[19:09:19] <renesis> clear bins are awesome
[19:09:22] <_methods> in progress projects
[19:09:36] <unfy> yup, i've got 30 or so of the 6qt storage bins :D
[19:09:57] <_methods> i buy the little ones at the grocery store for small projects
[19:10:14] <unfy> and i've got about a dozen small parts bins cabinets
[19:10:16] <_methods> the ones for like food leftovers
[19:10:43] <unfy> i've been debating better quality tote bin things instead of the 'cheapest 6qt shoe box sized' thing i can find... i sunno
[19:11:00] <_methods> it depends on the project
[19:11:13] <_methods> junk projects get junk boxes lol
[19:11:57] <unfy> i've been storing anything and everything in them
[19:12:13] <unfy> (moved about a year ago and have been wanting some sanity to the sheer amount of crap i have)
[19:12:29] <_methods> yeah i go in phases
[19:12:36] <_methods> i'll get it organized for awhile
[19:12:41] <_methods> then it gets out of hand
[19:12:50] <_methods> back to organized
[19:12:58] <_methods> wife yells at me
[19:13:09] <_methods> back to organized
[19:13:57] <_methods> i always have like 10 projects in varying states of unfinishedness
[19:14:02] <unfy> indeed
[19:14:15] <_methods> waiting on parts
[19:14:30] <unfy> i've been doing well at getting things contained. a good work bench will help steam roll that along
[19:14:55] <unfy> either this week or next i'll build me the work bench
[19:15:22] <_methods> i picked up a couple unfinished cabinets at home depot
[19:15:31] <_methods> and then put some melamine on top of it
[19:16:00] <_methods> so i got cabinets with drawers and a bench all in one shot
[19:16:26] <Jymmm> concrete counter tops =)
[19:16:34] <_methods> i would have liked to get my hands on a couple vidmars instead
[19:16:42] <_methods> but those things are hard to get at auctions
[19:16:49] <_methods> people always bid them up to like $700
[19:16:50] <unfy> a coworker has done the beefy filing cabinet + solid core door thing.
[19:19:34] * unfy watches one of the eevblog bench things
[19:20:18] <_methods> those mats.......so over priced
[19:20:31] <_methods> just hook up to ground lol
[19:20:53] <unfy> here at work, we didn't give a shit about ground. cheap folding table + cardboard topper
[19:20:56] <_methods> i dont' fry enough stuff to make it worth while
[19:21:21] <unfy> or - currently - a nice old office metal desk + quilter's cutting board top
[19:22:13] <_methods> yeah those esd mats are nice but i'd rather put my money into a nice boom microscope or oscope
[19:22:37] <unfy> microscope: planned. scope: haz already :P
[19:23:16] <unfy> i have a cheap usb thing for inspection - but nothing for soldering atm. not even a lens-light table clamp thing
[19:23:28] <_methods> the microscope is the thing that i end up wishing i had more times than anything
[19:50:41] <unfy> oh yeah -- btw - solder wick. i don't touch the stuff. prefer the pumps :D
[19:55:21] <Tom_itx> scopes are awesome for smt work
[20:04:01] <_methods> solder wick is awesome for prepping pads for replacement stuff
[20:04:44] <_methods> i use solder pump for getting the majority of solder off
[20:05:01] <_methods> then do final clean with solder wick if needed
[20:06:13] <_methods> if i have a lot of desoldering/salvaging parts off scrap boards i bust out the 808
[20:21:51] <furrywolf> tint applied. not that difficult. made a few mistakes, mostly because it was dark, but it's good enough. and cost $5 instead of $50.
[20:22:47] <furrywolf> don't apply window tint if it's going to get dark in the middle of the project. also, don't stop to pull your neighbor's lawn care people out of the ditch while you're in the bubble-removing stage.
[20:23:26] <XXCoder> cool'
[20:23:57] <furrywolf> the biggest mistake, related to lack of light, was missing a few specs of dirt while cleaning.
[20:24:04] <XXCoder> doh
[20:25:30] <furrywolf> I spent longer cleaning than I did applying!
[20:25:47] <furrywolf> the used window I got was _filthy_. covered in green mold slime.
[20:26:00] <XXCoder> wow but cheap?
[20:29:15] <furrywolf> $50. nothing is ever cheap from the local wrecker.
[20:34:13] <XXCoder> guess so
[20:34:17] <XXCoder> still cheaper than new
[20:42:26] <renesis> ha cool, i left latency test running the whole month i was gone, been running 6 weeks now
[20:44:06] <renesis> 20ns jitter not so bad for random $50 pc
[20:46:42] <LeelooMinai> lol... I don't think so:)
[21:24:42] <PetefromTn_> Hello LinuxCNC!
[21:25:19] <Tom_itx> did you figure out ngcgui?
[21:25:28] <PetefromTn_> why hell no LOL
[21:25:38] <PetefromTn_> but I did look at it a bit.
[21:25:47] <PetefromTn_> excited to get to use it soon on this lathe.
[21:26:00] <Tom_itx> just move some files around and add a few entries to the ini
[21:26:26] <Tom_itx> seems that slow boat from china is in town now
[21:26:35] <Tom_itx> maybe i'll get some junk tomorrow
[21:26:36] <PetefromTn_> I managed to meet with my customer and had a GREAT meeting today...
[21:26:46] <_methods> good deal man
[21:26:49] <PetefromTn_> I hope so for your sake
[21:26:56] <Tom_itx> just an MPG is all
[21:26:57] <_methods> you still working at that other shop?
[21:27:09] <PetefromTn_> yeah we are working on a product idea
[21:27:15] <PetefromTn_> yeah sorta part time
[21:27:31] <PetefromTn_> I did not take that bridgeport knee mill job tho.
[21:27:38] <PetefromTn_> at least not so far HEHE
[21:28:07] <PetefromTn_> We are working on a cool product for the mazda RX7 guys that seems pretty awesome if we can pull it off.
[21:28:19] <PetefromTn_> The guys are very excited about it
[21:28:23] <PetefromTn_> and so am I
[21:28:38] <PetefromTn_> and they paid me again in full for this short run of parts I am making now today
[21:28:43] <PetefromTn_> which is always nice
[21:28:48] <PetefromTn_> ;)
[21:29:32] <PetefromTn_> so after work I picked up my wife and we headed into Knoxvegas for dinner out and a visit to Horrible freight
[21:29:55] <PetefromTn_> http://i.imgur.com/VkrQt5A.jpg grabbed one of these
[21:30:59] <Tom_itx> vaccuum pump?
[21:31:04] <PetefromTn_> yup
[21:31:24] <PetefromTn_> also they were having some kinda huge sale there today
[21:31:25] <Tom_itx> from there i hope it lasts more than a day
[21:31:27] <PetefromTn_> place was packed LOL
[21:31:44] <Tom_itx> the drill i got from them didn't
[21:31:46] <PetefromTn_> honestly it looks pretty nice from first impressions
[21:31:51] <Tom_itx> so did the drill
[21:32:01] <Tom_itx> angle head didn't make it thru the first hole
[21:32:15] <PetefromTn_> well we shall see I guess
[21:32:38] <PetefromTn_> I actually bought a small dual tank compressor for site woodworking installations from them years ago and it still works great.
[21:32:50] <PetefromTn_> it is also pretty quiet
[21:33:35] <PetefromTn_> http://images.harborfreight.com/cpi/photos/95400-95499/95498.gif looks kinda like this one
[21:33:48] <Tom_itx> we didn't use a reserve tank on ours
[21:34:01] <Tom_itx> i don't see too much benefit with one
[21:34:22] <PetefromTn_> while I was there I grabbed some nice looking ball end allen wrench sets imperial and metric as my old set is missing a few
[21:34:30] <PetefromTn_> on your vacuum pump?
[21:34:35] <Tom_itx> yeah
[21:35:01] <PetefromTn_> I have one and was considering using it
[21:35:16] <Tom_itx> just more to evacuate
[21:35:25] <Tom_itx> the volume on the plate is minimal
[21:35:44] <PetefromTn_> the pump was just $99 so if it does fail it is not the end of the world
[21:35:49] <PetefromTn_> sure
[21:36:07] <PetefromTn_> I have some nice push lock angled fittings I want to use on the fixture
[21:36:28] <PetefromTn_> and I need to get a ball valve and some tubing altho I might have some tubing that will work already
[21:40:01] <PetefromTn_> really excited to start using vacuum hold down techniques on the CNC mill.
[21:40:15] <PetefromTn_> it would have been really nice for the edge lit LED sign too
[21:40:56] <zeeshan> fuck
[21:41:04] <zeeshan> the hydraulic cylinder exploded!
[21:41:06] <unfy> son of a
[21:41:09] <unfy> zee: doh!
[21:41:12] <zeeshan> it didnt
[21:41:16] <zeeshan> but it would be exciting if it did
[21:41:17] <PetefromTn_> define exploded
[21:41:20] <zeeshan> i cant figure how to get it out
[21:41:31] <zeeshan> i've pulled out the fingers that hold the retention knob
[21:41:37] <zeeshan> i dont see how else its being held in there
[21:41:53] <unfy> bought metal stuff and some 1/2" plywood for electronics workbench. realized i forgot some particle board / osb.... and the store is closed now. damnit.
[21:42:19] <zeeshan> delicious metal
[21:42:23] <zeeshan> i love metal!
[21:43:03] <Tom_itx> is it threaded?
[21:43:21] <zeeshan> yea thats how i got the fingers off
[21:43:31] <zeeshan> ill take a bit in a bit, eating :)
[21:43:39] <zeeshan> late dinner :/
[21:49:53] <PetefromTn_> this little vac pump is pretty cool
[21:50:31] <PetefromTn_> I need to ante up and get some large plate stock so I can make a nice big pneumatic hold down fixture on the VMC
[21:50:40] <bobo_> come with oil ?
[21:50:53] <bobo_> vav oil
[21:50:54] <PetefromTn_> yeah it did actually
[21:51:10] <PetefromTn_> and it appears to have some inside
[21:51:20] <PetefromTn_> you can see it in the view window
[21:51:45] <bobo_> my fingers are now uncrossed
[21:51:55] <PetefromTn_> ?
[21:52:11] <bobo_> no oil start
[21:53:32] <bobo_> was hopeing for oil
[21:54:11] <PetefromTn_> it has oil and a bottle of it as well
[21:55:02] <bobo_> keep on keeping on -------was just worried
[21:55:33] <PetefromTn_> well I have to get some stuff so I can hook it up tomorrrow
[21:55:48] <PetefromTn_> and I now need to order a bunch of material for the parts run.
[21:56:20] <bobo_> order from where ?
[21:56:46] <PetefromTn_> from my local supplier
[21:57:20] <PetefromTn_> whats nice is the prototype I made for them worked perfect the first time so I just need to make a bunch more now heh
[21:58:35] <bobo_> walk --drive -local ? or phone and wate ?
[21:59:15] <PetefromTn_> phone and wait then drive about 15 minutes to pickup
[21:59:26] <PetefromTn_> usually next day or so
[22:02:41] <bobo_> great except the walking past the drop bin always gets me in fits. like gee I could/might use that piece or that piece looks usable
[22:03:20] <PetefromTn_> oh yeah man and they have a huge rack of small stuff as well as smaller drop pieces on the floor next to it.
[22:03:36] <PetefromTn_> I often grab a couple small pieces and they usually sell it to me by the pound at a good price
[22:03:41] <bobo_> Oh ! stop
[22:04:40] <bobo_> envious
[22:05:40] <PetefromTn_> well it is no big deal really. you should drop by your local machine shops and bring donuts you would be amazed at the scrap they will let you have for free or cheap....unless they are assholes
[22:07:01] <zeeshan> http://c4.staticflickr.com/8/7319/16406155082_690d08502c_b.jpg ; http://c4.staticflickr.com/8/7281/16221165587_57c0e23288_b.jpg ; http://c4.staticflickr.com/8/7370/16219440808_85d53910eb_b.jpg
[22:07:13] <zeeshan> last pic shows the stud protruding in the spindle
[22:07:17] <zeeshan> where this finger assembly went
[22:07:44] <zeeshan> dunno whats holding it in now :/
[22:08:04] <PetefromTn_> does the whole damn thing unscrew?
[22:08:12] <zeeshan> hmm
[22:08:16] <PetefromTn_> that is a cool looking pullstud setup tho
[22:08:29] <zeeshan> PetefromTn_: you prolly have the same thing
[22:08:34] <zeeshan> ott jakobs pretty much makes all the drawbars
[22:08:40] <PetefromTn_> no my pullstud is quite a bit different
[22:08:48] <PetefromTn_> it is a lot like the HAAS style
[22:08:51] <zeeshan> o
[22:09:30] <zeeshan> http://c1.staticflickr.com/9/8628/15787034813_a90202e3cf_b.jpg ; http://c4.staticflickr.com/8/7304/16219665160_e96fe567b2_c.jpg
[22:09:34] <zeeshan> special tool was made!
[22:09:37] <zeeshan> it turned out pretty hnice
[22:09:41] <Tom_itx> PetefromTn_, you should make a trip over here to the surplus and grab some of the plate
[22:09:53] <PetefromTn_> http://thumbs4.ebaystatic.com/d/l225/m/mRMlkam4A0EqK913q138wOg.jpg mine look like this sorta
[22:10:26] <PetefromTn_> hey thats pretty nice man
[22:10:36] <PetefromTn_> did you turn that on your CNC lathe?
[22:10:42] <zeeshan> yea
[22:10:50] <PetefromTn_> Tom_itx Man if I could get good prices I might consider it LOL
[22:10:55] <PetefromTn_> looks good zeeshan
[22:10:59] <zeeshan> check this out dude i was getting such a shitty finish using vnmg 331 inserts
[22:11:05] <Tom_itx> http://tom-itx.no-ip.biz:81/~webpage/cnc/local_stock/stock_index.php
[22:11:15] <zeeshan> i was spinning at 150 sfm , feedrate 3.8ipm
[22:11:22] <zeeshan> read the specs on the insert package
[22:11:23] <Tom_itx> http://tom-itx.no-ip.biz:81/~webpage/cnc/local_stock/7.jpg
[22:11:27] <zeeshan> 400 minimum - 800 sfm
[22:11:27] <Tom_itx> PetefromTn_^^
[22:11:36] <zeeshan> feedrate worked out to 10 ipm
[22:11:42] <zeeshan> did that, and holy cow it made a much better finish
[22:12:15] <PetefromTn_> damn that is some nice thick material I am sure they want a fortune for it.
[22:12:24] <Tom_itx> by the pound
[22:12:34] <Tom_itx> i don't know what the going rate is right now
[22:12:44] <Tom_itx> they have thinner stuff
[22:12:59] <Tom_itx> look over that page, i took several pics the last time i was there
[22:13:08] <PetefromTn_> is that a VNMG aluminum specific or steel
[22:13:25] <zeeshan> steel
[22:14:51] <Tom_itx> http://tom-itx.no-ip.biz:81/~webpage/cnc/local_stock/15.jpg
[22:14:57] <Tom_itx> there's some thinner plate
[22:15:24] <PetefromTn_> damn I could make so much cool shit with that stuff LOL
[22:15:49] <Tom_itx> if you use alot it may be worth a trip
[22:16:05] <PetefromTn_> I dunno man you are way over in texas right?
[22:16:12] <Tom_itx> especially with gas prices like they are now
[22:16:13] <Tom_itx> Ks
[22:16:18] <bobo_> zeeshan does the (top of spindle )hyd cylender need to come off and draw tube & rest of stuff removed thru bottom ?
[22:16:19] <PetefromTn_> what city
[22:16:20] <Tom_itx> about 18 hrs
[22:16:22] <Tom_itx> wichita
[22:16:28] <Tom_itx> i've driven it in a day
[22:16:34] <Tom_itx> like 20 hrs to NC
[22:16:41] <PetefromTn_> a day each way you mean
[22:16:46] <Tom_itx> you're not that far
[22:16:49] <Tom_itx> yes
[22:17:03] <Tom_itx> it's probably a good 16 hrs
[22:17:15] <Tom_itx> but i dunno exactly where you are
[22:17:40] <PetefromTn_> honestly my local supplier usually beats the online places by a reasonable margin so I usually just drive up there and get it myself
[22:17:47] <zeeshan> bob
[22:17:54] <zeeshan> bobo_: youre saying the cylinder is screwed in?
[22:18:00] <zeeshan> hm
[22:18:05] <Tom_itx> oh, you got a surplus around you?
[22:18:12] <Tom_itx> or new stuff?
[22:18:13] <PetefromTn_> its not a surples
[22:18:16] <PetefromTn_> surplus
[22:18:21] <PetefromTn_> it is new supply
[22:18:31] <Tom_itx> well you're paying new price then
[22:18:31] <PetefromTn_> and they usually have to order what I need
[22:18:38] <bobo_> Tom_itx can we place an order an meet you half way? will bring donuts
[22:18:57] <Tom_itx> i haven't been there but what i couldn't find what i need
[22:19:35] <Tom_itx> years ago they had really cool stuff
[22:19:43] <Tom_itx> now it's all organized and boreing
[22:19:51] <zeeshan> http://www.ebay.com/itm/DECKEL-FP3-QUILL-AND-SPINDLE-/201269984742?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item2edca03de6&rmvSB=true
[22:19:53] <Tom_itx> alot of old wwii surplus etc
[22:19:57] <Tom_itx> that's all gone now
[22:19:58] <zeeshan> bobo_: that is the cylinder i think i have.,
[22:20:46] <Tom_itx> http://tom-itx.no-ip.biz:81/~webpage/cnc/local_stock/5.jpg
[22:20:48] <PetefromTn_> that is not the cylinder
[22:20:48] <Tom_itx> smaller chunks
[22:21:28] <PetefromTn_> LOL maybe I need to get with you and do a freight shipment
[22:21:38] <zeeshan> https://www.flickr.com/photos/128539016@N05/16367629596/
[22:21:40] <zeeshan> its so similar
[22:21:52] <zeeshan> you can see that thing with the shaft that is splined
[22:21:59] <bobo_> zeeshan was looking at your photos ----thought hyd cyl had a flat at bottom
[22:22:03] <Tom_itx> http://tom-itx.no-ip.biz:81/~webpage/cnc/local_stock/9.jpg
[22:22:05] <zeeshan> http://i.ebayimg.com/00/s/MTIwMFgxNjAw/z/69oAAOSwj0NUmFn2/$_57.JPG
[22:22:09] <zeeshan> you can see the splined part here
[22:22:11] <Tom_itx> 10.5" roundbar if you need it :D
[22:22:31] <zeeshan> infact that is the spindle too
[22:22:54] <PetefromTn_> I have a piece like that but it is only like six or seven inches long
[22:23:12] <zeeshan> http://www.ebay.com/itm/201261063819?ssPageName=STRK:MESELX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1555.l2649&rmvSB=true
[22:23:14] <zeeshan> OH i see it now
[22:23:21] <zeeshan> the hyd cylinder is threaded int othe splined shaft
[22:23:21] <Tom_itx> they had one like 2' diameter but i didn't see it last time i was there
[22:23:22] <zeeshan> !!
[22:23:30] <bobo_> loctite
[22:23:48] <Tom_itx> zeeshan i told you it was threaded...
[22:23:48] <zeeshan> im gonna need a massive wrench for this
[22:23:49] <zeeshan> lol
[22:23:54] <zeeshan> Tom_itx: wasn't sure.
[22:23:59] <zeeshan> im a visual person
[22:24:22] <bobo_> im delousional
[22:24:57] <Tom_itx> http://tom-itx.no-ip.biz:81/~webpage/cnc/local_stock/2.jpg
[22:25:03] <Tom_itx> stacked like lumber at the home depot
[22:25:28] <bobo_> Tom -------12 donuts?
[22:25:32] <PetefromTn_> there is a LOT of money in that picture
[22:26:25] <Tom_itx> just bring a flatbed and a wallet
[22:26:43] <PetefromTn_> a BIG DEEP wallet
[22:26:54] <PetefromTn_> can I borrow yours hehe
[22:27:02] <bobo_> last offer . Pete you drive ,and I buy donuts
[22:27:05] <Tom_itx> http://tom-itx.no-ip.biz:81/~webpage/cnc/local_stock/11.jpg
[22:27:07] <Tom_itx> roundbar
[22:27:32] <Tom_itx> http://tom-itx.no-ip.biz:81/~webpage/cnc/local_stock/8.jpg
[22:27:35] <Tom_itx> more roundbar
[22:30:51] <zeeshan> man
[22:30:53] <zeeshan> what the hell
[22:30:58] <zeeshan> im just spinning the cylinder w/ the spindle
[22:30:59] <zeeshan> lol
[22:31:08] <Tom_itx> heh
[22:31:15] <zeeshan> theres no lock
[22:31:26] <Tom_itx> put the brake on
[22:31:38] <zeeshan> what brake
[22:31:41] <Tom_itx> oh
[22:31:50] <Tom_itx> well it probably wouldn't hold it anyway
[22:31:52] <zeeshan> i guess i can put it in low gear
[22:32:04] <Tom_itx> don't chip a tooth
[22:32:08] <zeeshan> yea
[22:32:11] <zeeshan> i really dont wanna force it
[22:32:13] <zeeshan> this is big ass thread
[22:32:19] <zeeshan> prolly under 300-400ftlb of torque
[22:32:36] <Tom_itx> spray some goo on it, it's been on there a while
[22:32:48] <zeeshan> doesnt look rusted
[22:33:09] <zeeshan> am i supposed to jam something where the ke ys are supposed to go
[22:33:11] <zeeshan> in the spindle? :p
[22:34:09] <furrywolf> argh. one of our pilots has a serious obsession with his weight and balance. his latest complaint: a manilla envelope, weighing a couple ounces, listed as 1lb on the airbill, didn't go in the right bay. I pointed out one pound wouldn't make any difference. "but it does! if you're off by one pound, then you're off by another pound here and another pound there, and it adds up!" etc.
[22:35:33] <furrywolf> if he does that again, I'm going to ask how much his last bowel movement weighed, and if he remembered to calculate the change in cg...
[22:35:34] <bobo_> zeeshan I think it is threaded into spindle . also loctite . can you borrow a hair dryer
[22:35:55] <zeeshan> bobo_: im not worried about removing the loctite
[22:36:01] <zeeshan> veven w/ loctite its tight
[22:36:04] <zeeshan> without i mean
[22:36:12] <zeeshan> im trying to figure out how you're supposed to torque this down
[22:36:17] <zeeshan> or untorque it
[22:36:25] <zeeshan> untorque = loosen
[22:36:37] <zeeshan> maybe there is a special tool to grab the splined shaft?
[22:37:04] <zeeshan> yea i think a spanner can fit inthere.
[22:37:17] <zeeshan> https://www.flickr.com/photos/128539016@N05/16367629596/
[22:37:19] <zeeshan> thats what im dealing with
[22:39:40] <bobo_> try above quill stop . or move stop so when quill gets ucked ---its above travle
[22:40:58] <bobo_> ucked up section is above trevel
[22:41:12] <bobo_> travel
[22:42:18] <bobo_> cat can't type for crap
[22:56:56] <PetefromTn_> http://www.ebay.com/itm/Yang-AC327903-CNC-Lathe-8-Tool-Turret-Changer-for-SML-12-30-SML-20-/311268372993?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item48790a7201 Ya think they would take $500?
[22:57:01] <PetefromTn_> ;)
[22:58:17] <bobo_> $500 + lot of donuts , mayby ?
[23:00:09] <bobo_> Pete NYC-CNC is having open house -last of March
[23:00:57] <bobo_> Zanesvill Ohio
[23:01:39] <PetefromTn_> and?
[23:02:03] <bobo_> be there ?
[23:03:09] <PetefromTn_> the only long distance drive I am gonna be taking is when I sell my house and pack all my shit and move back to florida.. so unless there is some free gold or something I am not interested hehe
[23:03:45] <bobo_> Free lunch-----he said
[23:04:22] <Jymmm> no such thing
[23:05:12] <PetefromTn_> so NYC CNC is in Ohio?
[23:05:43] <bobo_> I would spring for cheese cake donut
[23:06:56] <furrywolf> http://humboldt.craigslist.org/zip/4858986828.html what an amazing deal! I'll hop right on it!
[23:07:06] <bobo_> Yes John moved to Zanesville from New York
[23:10:04] <bobo_> He is even trying for Fed. fire arm permit
[23:11:31] <bobo_> now that he is in Ohio
[23:11:34] <furrywolf> the only permit you need ends with "shall not be infringed".
[23:12:53] <bobo_> Yes but Theory vers swat team------
[23:15:48] <bobo_> and some many years later a judge says -gosh ----sorry to the remaning family
[23:16:23] <furrywolf> http://humboldt.craigslist.org/pts/4869579049.html some people need to think harder when writing ads...
[23:28:57] <furrywolf> bbl, wolfy bedtime
[23:37:24] <bobo_> Pete if you go to NYC-CNCs open house ----zanesville has a "Y" bridge , just think -having to turn left or right in the middle of a bridge
[23:37:51] <unfy> oi
[23:38:39] <bobo_> while eating a cheese cake do-nut
[23:39:09] <zeeshan> that guy makes me upset
[23:39:12] <zeeshan> w/ his solidworks videos
[23:44:39] <PetefromTn_andro> Yeah man I ain't going to no Damn Ohio sorry LOL
[23:45:03] <PetefromTn_andro> Not even for a Damn cheese cake donut
[23:45:22] <bobo_> 2 donuts ?
[23:45:46] <PetefromTn_andro> I don't even really like his videos
[23:45:52] <zeeshan> i like them
[23:45:55] <zeeshan> but i hate the solidworks ones
[23:45:57] <PetefromTn_andro> Not even for a dozen
[23:46:13] <zeeshan> he does shit so hacked up
[23:46:20] <zeeshan> it messes with my ocd
[23:47:07] <PetefromTn_andro> In fact about the only way I would drive up there is if he was gonna give me the automatic tool turret off that tormach lathe of his hehehe
[23:47:27] <zeeshan> PetefromTn_andro: that lathe costs like 10k!
[23:47:39] <PetefromTn_andro> More than that man
[23:47:48] <zeeshan> i dont think its worth it
[23:47:55] <zeeshan> at least from a retrofit perspective
[23:48:01] <zeeshan> when you can have much better machines for 10k
[23:48:38] <PetefromTn_andro> I agree but I do think they did a nice job designing the machine tho
[23:48:42] <bobo_> give him a brake -fron central ohio ----------think he has a busines degree raised in a very small town
[23:49:27] <PetefromTn_andro> For what it is it looks like a nice little machine but I would not buy one..
[23:49:44] <zeeshan> that machine is for noobs
[23:49:45] <zeeshan> !
[23:49:54] <zeeshan> not pros like us
[23:50:03] <zeeshan> who can retrofit!
[23:50:03] <zeeshan> :P
[23:50:18] <PetefromTn_andro> Meh not really it is just a nice little slant bed collet lathe
[23:50:37] <zeeshan> needs dual spindles
[23:50:38] <zeeshan> !
[23:51:00] <PetefromTn_andro> Not really all that different from a lot of other commercial Collette lathes out there
[23:51:26] <PetefromTn_andro> Just small and designed to run off single phase
[23:52:38] <PetefromTn_andro> The big problem is that fully equipped with the tool turret and pneumatic Collette closer it is gonna be really close to20k apparently
[23:59:11] <PetefromTn_andro> At least it already runs on linuxcnc hehe
[23:59:41] <bobo_> yes but the art-history --business majors can understand it , and there is no mention of not being a windows stuff