#linuxcnc | Logs for 2015-01-26

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[00:57:35] <zeeshan|2> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x_pPEL5H2_s
[00:57:36] <zeeshan|2> :-))
[00:57:49] <zeeshan|2> marker held in by tape
[01:04:56] <kengu> cool
[01:20:13] <archivist> pen machines are supposed to be flimsy crap!
[01:22:39] <Jymmm> archivist: maksing tape to mount the paper, does that count as flimsy? lol
[01:23:14] <Jymmm> Gawd, the "grinding" sound when jogging on that thing.
[01:24:25] <zeeshan|2> yea its loud :P
[01:24:30] <archivist> sounds a bit ball race
[01:25:03] <zeeshan|2> it just needs lubew
[01:25:17] <zeeshan|2> should have the lubricator working hopefully in next couple days
[01:25:41] <Jymmm> spit it it if nothing else!
[01:25:58] <Jymmm> on it*
[01:26:17] <Jymmm> Wd40, something, anything
[01:26:42] <archivist> wd40 is far too thin to lube anything
[01:26:55] <Jymmm> archivist: better than nothing at all
[01:27:05] <Jymmm> temporarily
[01:28:52] <MattyMatt> so is spit
[01:29:16] <MattyMatt> >:)
[01:30:15] <Jymmm> no comment
[01:30:32] <archivist> microphone and fourier to find sources of noise
[01:32:38] <MattyMatt> on the subject of 2.5" form factors, does anyone know if these exist small enough to fit in a 9mm bay? http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/151330180926
[01:32:57] <Jymmm> does anyone know of a wooden beam/header calculator? Thinking three 2x6 spanned 8ft anchored both ends to support 4000LB working load.
[01:34:57] <Jymmm> zeeshan|2: Anyhow, you're gettign there =)
[01:37:04] <Jymmm> What do the "Deflection Limit" mean? http://www.awc.org/calculators/span/calc/timbercalcstyle.asp
[01:38:17] <zeeshan|2> Jymmm: even if the beam is strong enough to take the load
[01:38:27] <zeeshan|2> if it deflects more than a certain limit, it is considered a fail
[01:38:57] <zeeshan|2> so L/360 on that table means if your beam was 60"
[01:39:11] <zeeshan|2> youre only allowed .167" deflection
[01:39:46] <Jymmm> how did you get to those numbers fro, "L360" ?
[01:39:52] <zeeshan|2> i dont know haha
[01:39:57] <zeeshan|2> civil engineers do it weird
[01:40:03] <zeeshan|2> im sure ther eis a table out there that gives you it
[01:40:09] <zeeshan|2> its prolly based on where the beam is going to be placed
[01:40:30] <Jymmm> It also says like L720, etc I have NFC what that means
[01:41:04] <Jymmm> Also, what about 3 or 4 2x6's, etc
[01:41:16] <Jymmm> is it cumlitive?
[01:41:28] <zeeshan|2> http://www.awc.org/technical/spantables/tutorial.php
[01:41:33] <zeeshan|2> refernce to that calc
[01:44:19] <archivist> building codes/regulations too
[01:45:07] <archivist> idiots put brick walls onto wooden supports in this house
[01:45:27] <Vertices> lol
[01:45:32] <Vertices> that's illegal in my country
[01:46:05] <archivist> most of the bedroom doors cannot shut properly
[01:54:08] <archivist> zeeshan|2, finding sources of machine error http://www.collection.archivist.info/archive/proceedings/PR22/
[02:52:11] <Deejay> moin
[03:04:15] <Jymmm> Deejay: http://vimeo.com/107263462
[03:59:14] <zeeshan|2> archivist: can you please zip that?
[03:59:16] <zeeshan|2> so i can download
[04:08:55] <archivist> zeeshan|2, done
[04:09:08] <zeeshan|2> thank you
[04:09:44] <archivist> I had to read gzip docs! I never use it
[04:09:51] <zeeshan|2> haha
[04:10:59] <archivist> I wish a certain bit of test gear was not dead that is designed for that job
[04:12:27] <Jymmm> file compression test gear?
[04:12:51] <archivist> no a spectrum analyser
[04:13:33] <Jymmm> ah those are always fun to play with
[04:13:56] <archivist> not when the switchmode supply dies http://www.collection.archivist.info/searchv13.php?searchstr=3562a
[04:14:21] <MattyMatt> you only need a few 100khz of bandwidth, so a homebrew one would do for vibes
[04:14:51] <archivist> that model is 100k!
[04:15:08] <archivist> down to ,00 something
[04:15:52] <Jymmm> needing to test what now?
[04:16:31] <archivist> mechanical noises
[04:16:58] <Jymmm> Heh, I used to make the laser calibration references for HP/Agilent TE
[04:17:08] <Jymmm> ah
[04:17:45] <archivist> and the silly newname Keysight
[04:17:57] <Jymmm> That sounds SO cheesy
[04:18:19] <Jymmm> I wonder if you could use a SDR
[04:18:46] <Jymmm> most cheap ones dont go beloe 50MHz though
[04:19:39] <Jymmm> cheap USB sound card maybe?
[04:19:43] <archivist> I have accelerometers too so could excite a machine with the analyser output and see system response....if it was not dead
[04:19:52] <Jymmm> ah,
[04:20:07] <archivist> I have no time for sound cards
[04:21:00] <MattyMatt> I'm surprised the DSO nano doesn't have it built in. I imagine it's just a cpu issue
[04:21:18] <MattyMatt> or they want to sell that feature later
[04:22:05] <archivist> toy DSOs often have low res A-D
[04:23:17] <MattyMatt> 1ms/s 12bit sounds OK to me
[04:24:56] <SpeedEvil> Most non-toy DSOs have 8 bit.
[04:25:01] <SpeedEvil> Or at least did till recently
[04:25:48] <archivist> the sampling depth is limited too
[04:26:03] <MattyMatt> https://www.sparkfun.com/products/11702 this is the one I'm looking at. I'm reading about hacked firmware but no sign of spectrum
[04:26:12] <archivist> and one needs averaging to get dynamic range
[04:27:20] <MattyMatt> 4k sample buffer. so that'd limit you to 12 octaves (or 11 probably)
[04:27:31] <MattyMatt> 1 for nyquist
[04:28:31] <archivist> is that one chan at a time, need two or more to measure a mechanical system response in to out
[04:29:33] <MattyMatt> buy 2 :)
[04:30:06] <archivist> phase!, see the comments about the trigger too
[04:31:44] <MattyMatt> how fast is the a/d on a mesa card?
[04:32:13] <archivist> I understand how people get seduced by specs of the nano and others like it, but once you have had your hands on a real bit of kit.....
[04:34:28] <shadowjack> why not sound card? seems like logical choice for the job if you do not have right gear
[04:35:48] <MattyMatt> do a complete vibe canceling system with the sound output and meaty woofers
[04:36:35] <archivist> they have an AC coupled input and no proper phase coherance at low frequencies
[04:37:02] <MattyMatt> aye, the same issues with using them to read thermistors
[04:38:30] <MattyMatt> 4A24 looks usable. 200khz or 500khz. 8 channel differential. you could put transducers on that easily enough and then it's all software
[04:56:33] <bobo_> jymmm: wood beam span tables---- one of many things accounted for is drywall cracking
[04:58:20] <bobo_> so the 1/xxx is listed for live vers dead or static loads
[04:59:03] <Jymmm> live? as in dynamic?
[04:59:14] <bobo_> yes
[04:59:34] <Jymmm> but what do they mean?
[04:59:40] <archivist> walking over, a bed
[04:59:47] <Jymmm> wth is "L720" as example
[04:59:52] <archivist> a wall is static
[04:59:58] <SpeedEvil> length 7.2m?
[05:00:40] <SpeedEvil> Stupid suggestion. 'Easybeam trial' - for android
[05:01:31] <bobo_> 5 sugar fed 4 year olds ----------dishes falling out of cabinet before mom gets there attention
[05:02:27] <SpeedEvil> Easiest way to calm down sugared 4 year-olds is a good half-an-hour in the treadmill.
[05:02:57] <Jymmm> duct tape to wall
[05:03:13] <bobo_> jymmm: ask zeeshan to figure up load rating for
[05:03:26] <archivist> hmm, make a generator, like a hamster wheel for kidz
[05:04:26] <bobo_> 2 wood beams having sheet metal in middle----to decrease sag
[05:06:34] <bobo_> and or 2 sets of wood beams (deck) having
[05:07:42] <bobo_> sheet metal making a "u" shape between
[05:09:14] <Jymmm> archivist: good idea!
[05:09:34] <bobo_> beam /sheet metal/beam space beam/sheet metal/beam
[05:12:22] <bobo_> sheet metal is one piece ,looping down and over to next pair of beams
[05:14:50] <bobo_> zeeshan: Mikron is looking good
[05:19:50] <bobo_> zeeshan would be interesting to see hal/scope following error of before and after the ways get lubed with correct oil
[05:45:32] <shadowjack> glass fiber reinforced beams would be so 21 century
[05:47:04] <bobo_> wood is cheaper
[05:47:49] <shadowjack> glass fiber reinforced wood I mean
[05:48:10] <shadowjack> like on lightweight airplanes
[05:50:26] <bobo_> guickly gets to point of wood failing causing reinforcement to fail ,glue joint fail
[05:51:28] <bobo_> glue bond fail
[06:01:07] <bobo_> I think SSI was showing photos of his stunt airplans wooden wings . and refered to their load ratings------any way thought it was interesting
[06:03:44] <shadowjack> of course it would fail. But will be order of magnitude stronger and stiffer
[06:12:58] <SpeedEvil> If you're not constrained by section, wood is pretty good
[06:13:31] <SpeedEvil> Space-frames can be very, very stiff
[06:18:36] <bobo_> SpeedEvel what is approx cost of a 2x8 -20foot piece of wood ,wher you are?
[06:30:31] <archivist> 20ft lengths are rare here
[06:32:02] <bobo_> so what is being used for home building?
[06:33:04] <malcom2073> They're about $30 on east coast USA
[06:34:12] <archivist> bricks, roofs are the only place long lengths are used
[06:34:34] <bobo_> think archivist is in GB
[06:35:33] <archivist> I dont think that NT condo that burnt down could ever be built in the uk
[06:35:37] <archivist> NY
[06:35:44] <malcom2073> Nowadays they're using OSB for lengths, it's odd
[06:37:55] <SpeedEvil> 4.8m is the longest common length here
[06:40:22] <SpeedEvil> http://www.mkmbs.co.uk/Menu/timber-%7Band%7D-sheet-materials/List/type:carcassing~rough-sawn_contentmode:list#/contentmode:thumb
[06:40:33] <SpeedEvil> is the 'best' vendor I've found which actually lists sane prices
[06:41:45] <bobo_> around here -sane prices means out of stock !
[06:49:09] <malcom2073> ouch
[06:51:22] <SpeedEvil> i was thinking of adding fibreglass to wood beams.
[06:51:32] <SpeedEvil> Then I found out how ridiculously springy fibreglass is
[06:51:48] <malcom2073> Moreso than wood?
[06:52:08] <SpeedEvil> yes
[06:52:43] <SpeedEvil> Well - not quite
[06:52:59] <SpeedEvil> It's 'only' 10 times stiffer.
[06:53:47] <SpeedEvil> which means it's basically unloaded over the useful range
[06:55:58] <bobo_> malcom2073 I remember a ad in linux Mag showing pict of side of a van advertising bathtub stopper chain pull Repair Parts
[06:56:49] <bobo_> next time you are asked what the mill is for
[06:57:08] <bobo_> there you go
[06:58:01] <malcom2073> Haha yeah
[06:58:11] <malcom2073> "billet bathtub stoppers of course!"
[06:58:20] <bobo_> only
[06:59:24] <malcom2073> I wound up telling her to google "billet" on jegs/summitracing since her husband is a car guy, that worked.
[07:00:47] <bobo_> now all the racers will be hiting on you
[07:03:00] <bobo_> stick to martha stewart deigener stoppers
[07:03:14] <malcom2073> Probably for the best
[07:08:54] <bobo_> malcom2073 think of getting a photo off the mill mixing up bread dough in HF stainless bowl
[07:09:14] <malcom2073> I have a kitchenaid mixer I could grab the bowel/mixer from....
[07:09:19] <malcom2073> write some gcode to have it circle while spinning
[07:09:48] <archivist> I made a helical gear for a dough mixer, I did get some odd youtube comments
[07:10:01] <bobo_> don't forget the chef hat
[07:10:22] <malcom2073> bort bort
[07:10:53] <malcom2073> I'm totally going to make a youtube of that once the machine is running
[07:11:59] <bobo_> T shirt with a big " Get Er Dough " on it
[07:14:52] <bobo_> sorry Turn Wright Mach Works
[07:20:52] <somenewguy> zeeshan, I only have 6in on my z, so don't complain too loud!
[07:22:47] <bobo_> somenewguy what State is your new house located in ?
[07:36:34] <bobo_> bbl
[07:36:58] <SpeedEvil> Mine is mostly solid.
[08:05:18] <monkeyisl> hi
[08:13:06] <malcom2073> Anyone use OpenSCAM? I can't seem to figure out how to actually make it *show* the cutting
[08:16:46] <malcom2073> ah nm, reloaded it and it seems to work now
[08:39:42] <PetefromTn_> Morning LinuxCNC folks
[08:40:05] <skunkworks> Morning PetefromTn_
[08:40:10] <malcom2073> Alright, so PyCAM wants to take 15 hours to generate gcode on the example file with the example configuration they ship with it... is that normal?
[08:40:33] <malcom2073> I mean I know it's python... but that's just silly
[08:41:25] <PetefromTn_> So I have been looking some more into this Orient procedure for the Cincinatti's spindle
[08:41:57] <PetefromTn_> I have also been talking with Lee in UK that has the same exact machine about how his works.
[08:42:12] <PetefromTn_> from the best I can gather about how he did it
[08:42:27] <PetefromTn_> he has added a pneumatic solenoid to the millhead
[08:42:41] <PetefromTn_> that has a conical plastic head on the ram
[08:42:59] <PetefromTn_> and there is a hole in the side of the spindle body that was either there or he added somehow
[08:43:18] <PetefromTn_> it seems he does not even use any real feedback
[08:43:31] <PetefromTn_> apparently his VFD has a jog mode
[08:43:40] <PetefromTn_> it is enacted by an input pin
[08:44:15] <PetefromTn_> he has set this jog mode to like 5hz which should be spinning pretty slow maybe 5 RPM or something like that
[08:44:40] <PetefromTn_> well he has built a macro that will slow the spindle down and then put it in this jog mode.
[08:45:00] <PetefromTn_> then it turns the spindle and looks for the index pulse or a sensor
[08:45:15] <PetefromTn_> and then it gives an M5 command
[08:45:47] <PetefromTn_> at which point the solenoid will be fired into this shaped hole which final aligns the spindle to the orient position
[08:46:22] <PetefromTn_> he said that the solenoid is almost not necessary because the electronic part of the orientation is quite precise
[08:47:04] <PetefromTn_> but it seems to me the he needs the solenoid to maintain that position during the toolchange because there is nothing holding the spindle in position during the M5.
[08:47:24] <toastydeath> it's likely that the hole was there from the start, because that's how most spindles align
[08:47:34] <Connor> toastydeath: Nope. He added.
[08:47:40] <toastydeath> impressive
[08:47:56] <Connor> PetefromTn_: He described the same thing to me.
[08:48:00] <PetefromTn_> at the end of the day the reality is that his system has worked now daily for thousands of toolchanges
[08:48:25] <PetefromTn_> but because of the macros he used he has to have a custom setup in his G-code
[08:48:41] <PetefromTn_> what I don't understand
[08:48:48] <Connor> PetefromTn_: I can do all that with the remap code I have.
[08:48:48] <PetefromTn_> is that my machine never had any of this
[08:49:08] <PetefromTn_> and has performed thousands of toolchanges without issue
[08:49:19] <PetefromTn_> the original VFD had spindle feedback
[08:49:30] <PetefromTn_> directly to the drive
[08:49:41] <PetefromTn_> the control would simply output an orient line
[08:50:03] <PetefromTn_> I don't understand what the difference would be between that and having linuxCNC do the same thing?
[08:50:31] <PetefromTn_> whether the VFD closes the loop and sets up the orient or linuxCNC does it what the hell is the difference?
[08:50:53] <Connor> Non really. He just did it that way because linuxcnc didn't have the means to do it at the time.
[08:50:57] <PetefromTn_> there is no magic mechanism in the drive that works any different is there?
[08:51:25] <PetefromTn_> he told me he did it that way because his VFD was not capable of it the other way apparently
[08:51:30] <PetefromTn_> not sure why..
[08:51:34] <shadowjack> Looking at prices for ATC high-speed spindles, I was wandered if it would be practical to do spindle-change instead of tool-change
[08:52:16] <PetefromTn_> Connor Did you see where we tried to plot the modbus feedback control of the spindle the other day?
[08:52:23] <Connor> No.
[08:52:36] <Connor> I just got moved back into the house this weekend..
[08:52:53] <PetefromTn_> yeah we did plot the time and it was fast but not really fast enough for PID control apparenlty
[08:53:02] <PetefromTn_> Oh nice glad to hear it is done that was quick
[08:53:18] <Connor> Quick? Been 3 weeks. :(
[08:53:33] <PetefromTn_> they had to tear apart most of your floor no?
[08:53:57] <Connor> In the kitchen.. 7 floor joists and the subfloor, bathroom just a small section of subfloor.
[08:54:02] <Connor> that was done in 2 days.
[08:54:03] <PetefromTn_> seems like it could have been much worse
[08:54:15] <Connor> It probably could have been.
[08:54:36] <PetefromTn_> well glad to hear you are back home again..
[08:54:52] <Connor> Yea, I was afraid modbus might not be fast enough for Real Time PID control.
[08:55:03] <Connor> we can switch back to analog 0-10v maybe.
[08:55:22] <PetefromTn_> I unfortunately have no work to machine today so I was thinking of trying to do it.
[08:55:59] <PetefromTn_> people were saying that it might be possible to have both modbus and analog control to the drive but I kinda doubt it.
[08:58:00] <shadowjack> what do you want to achieve with spindle feedback?
[08:58:37] <PetefromTn_> toolchange
[08:58:53] <PetefromTn_> this is a Commercial vertical machining center
[08:59:51] <shadowjack> so spindle needs to be in specific position?
[09:00:04] <PetefromTn_> yeah it is a Cat40 machine
[09:01:29] <PetefromTn_> right now my thinking is that I need to get the analog control wiring put back the way it was before and hopefully the magic SSI did with the index masking will still work that way
[09:01:37] <PetefromTn_> so I can still rigid tap and whatnot
[09:02:04] <PetefromTn_> then I will try to setup the orient controls in linuxCNC and see how it orients
[09:02:31] <PetefromTn_> with any luck it will be an accurate positioning and will hold with enough force that toolchange is safe.
[09:02:51] <PetefromTn_> if that does not work I suppose the way lee did it will have to be the next step.
[09:03:16] <shadowjack> maybe independent slow drive system like stepper geared way down?
[09:03:21] <PetefromTn_> so since I am without shop work today I am going to try to get this going
[09:03:47] <shadowjack> do not think vfd will be up to the task
[09:03:49] <PetefromTn_> no I don't want to add any more axes or motors to the machine
[09:04:09] <PetefromTn_> we shall see
[09:04:33] <PetefromTn_> that is how it worked before
[09:05:25] <shadowjack> than maybe possible. How low can it be geared down?
[09:05:48] <shadowjack> or is it direct drive?
[09:05:50] <PetefromTn_> do you have a lot of experience with vfd's and positioning?
[09:06:18] <PetefromTn_> it is driven via a timing belt with a 2-1 ratio to the motor
[09:06:33] <PetefromTn_> motor spins 12k RPM spindle spins 6k RPM max
[09:06:56] <archivist> malcom2073, lots of users have whined about pycam speed
[09:07:02] <shadowjack> no, but know some about brushless DC motors and controllers
[09:07:54] <PetefromTn_> OK well the original control used all electronic spindle positioning
[09:08:12] <PetefromTn_> there is no mechanical means to orient or anything like that.
[09:08:26] <malcom2073> If it was just slow, that'd be one thing, but it estimates 15 hours to do a toolpath. reminds me of when 3d printing was *just* starting out and slicers took hours, now they take minutes, even seconds to generate toolpaths for complicated files. Is open source toolpath generation just not popular enough to justify the effort to speed it up?
[09:08:28] <shadowjack> what type of motor does it have?
[09:09:09] <PetefromTn_> it has a big induction motor made by Emerson Control Techniques
[09:09:22] <PetefromTn_> 10HP
[09:09:27] <PetefromTn_> 12kRPM
[09:09:44] <PetefromTn_> its an odd euro motor so the phase is differnet etc.
[09:10:12] <PetefromTn_> its a stout bastard tho especially with the 2-1 ratio
[09:11:08] <shadowjack> malcom2073, I think there is much effort needed to make decent CAM. And no one willing to sponsor it.
[09:11:31] <archivist> sponsor!
[09:11:34] <shadowjack> Slicing for 3d printing is much simpler
[09:11:37] <PetefromTn_> is this a 3d cam file?
[09:11:39] <skunkworks> PetefromTn_, enough talking - dig in :) What is the worse that can happen?
[09:11:42] <malcom2073> shadowjack: makes sense. Hopefully with the slow but steady influx of cnc machines getting cheaper and cheaper, it'll get better
[09:11:52] <PetefromTn_> skunkworks Oh there's plenty of worse..
[09:12:14] <PetefromTn_> I have been working quite a bit on the machine lately actually
[09:13:03] <malcom2073> shadowjack: The toolpath for the file that will take 15 hours is significantly simpler than most things I've 3d printed.
[09:13:24] <shadowjack> I think there is cam module planned for freecad, not sure if anyone taken the task
[09:13:32] <PetefromTn_> this toolchanger man I would LOVE to be able to use it... especially when the lathe comes online it will be nice to be able to walk away and run the lathe while the mill is running proven code.
[09:13:43] <_methods> heekscam
[09:13:52] <_methods> used to be free
[09:13:53] <PetefromTn_> there is and there are several people working on it.
[09:13:57] <_methods> i think he's chargin for it now
[09:14:53] <_methods> and besides a cnc mill is NOT a 3d printer
[09:14:59] <_methods> tool paths require thought
[09:15:01] <PetefromTn_> ;)
[09:15:13] <PetefromTn_> a LOT of thought...
[09:15:14] <shadowjack> for 2d stuff there are gcodetools for inkscape
[09:15:16] <malcom2073> _methods: 15 hours of thought? I could hand-write the toolpaths for this in less than that time :)
[09:15:16] <_methods> squirting glue on a glass plated does not
[09:15:27] <_methods> s/plated/plate
[09:16:20] <PetefromTn_> it is not free but you might try CamBam.. it has 2d and 3d toolpaths for pretty cheap and is quite capable.
[09:16:52] <malcom2073> My dad uses dolphincam, and it is significantly faster, so it's not a matter of "toolpaths require thought", it's just not done very well yet :/
[09:17:12] <malcom2073> I was wondering if that was typical of the open source stuff, I'll try out heekscam and see how it does
[09:17:42] <archivist> malcom2073, you can be brave and try apt360 on sourceforge
[09:18:10] <PetefromTn_> yeah man or fusion 360 which is a kickass cloud based 3d CAD CAM
[09:18:23] <malcom2073> archivist: aptos?
[09:18:29] <archivist> yes
[09:18:45] <_methods> yeah the pathing in fusion 360 is pretty nuts for the price
[09:18:53] <_methods> adaptive 2d and 3d pathing
[09:19:05] <PetefromTn_> isn't it free for hobby use or something like that?
[09:19:08] <_methods> yeah
[09:19:10] <malcom2073> archivist: readme says 32bit only?
[09:19:17] <shadowjack> and there is BlenderCAM too, if you are interested in open source solution
[09:19:18] <_methods> free for students/hobbyists/startups
[09:19:39] <_methods> hell you can make gcode with inkscape
[09:19:43] <archivist> malcom2073, yes it is only 32 bit, needs lots of work to get it to be 64
[09:19:44] <PetefromTn_> I have been meaning to try it..
[09:19:47] <_methods> and pretty pictures
[09:20:05] <malcom2073> archivist: Don't have any 32bit machines laying around, is it worth the effort to install one?
[09:20:14] <_methods> plenty of available CAM options
[09:20:24] <PetefromTn_> I think he is ignoring us LOL
[09:20:37] <malcom2073> blendercam looks pretty good, I'll give that a shot
[09:20:44] <malcom2073> PetefromTn_: hobby use yeah
[09:21:00] <PetefromTn_> what are you trying to make and on what machine?
[09:21:43] <malcom2073> I'm trying to figure out the software I'll need once I get my mill set up, it's a CNC Clausing/Kondia knee mill
[09:21:51] <malcom2073> I'm not yet trying to make anything specific
[09:22:25] <_methods> well you'd be hard pressed to beat the fusion360 free price and capabilities
[09:22:30] <PetefromTn_> if you are just a hobbyist that fusion 360 would be real cheap/free and it looks VERY powerful. like Solidworks powerful
[09:22:39] <mrsun__> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GhD8atU6xEg <-- this is the kind of project that makes me glad that i built a cnc router :P
[09:22:58] <archivist> malcom2073, hand coding is a useful skill, only need linuxcnc then
[09:22:58] <malcom2073> Yowch, it's a subscription?
[09:23:15] <malcom2073> archivist: I can hand-code, but I'm *really* slow at it
[09:23:28] <archivist> one gets faster
[09:23:41] <_methods> it's an invaluable skill
[09:24:00] <PetefromTn_> it's cloud based
[09:24:06] <PetefromTn_> but so what really...
[09:24:11] <_methods> it's free
[09:24:18] <PetefromTn_> if you watch some videos of it online
[09:24:23] <archivist> I did write some code to make my gears gcode, dropped it in favour of handcoding
[09:24:24] <PetefromTn_> you will quickly see that it is no joke
[09:24:55] <_methods> the drafting part of it sucks rightnow though
[09:24:56] <mrsun__> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GhD8atU6xEg#t=424 more like it :P
[09:24:58] <PetefromTn_> man I can hand code simple things but there is no way I would want to hand code half the shit I make here. thats crazy
[09:25:00] <_methods> making prints is a nightmare
[09:25:16] <_methods> assembly is kinda wierd also
[09:25:27] <_methods> but drawing parts is basically the same as inventor or solidworks
[09:25:43] <_methods> they have an unusual mating system for assemblies
[09:26:21] <PetefromTn_> most folks will be drawing relatively simple parts and then machining them so the rest can be learned
[09:26:52] <PetefromTn_> mating parts and assemblies in solidworks is not exactly intuitive..
[09:26:58] <_methods> took me awhile to figure out how the whole body/component thing worked
[09:27:01] <archivist> as soon as you have a rotary I think most low cost cam dies
[09:27:08] <malcom2073> that 360 looks nifty, but I've already got CAD
[09:27:25] <_methods> you can import your files in and just use it for toolpaths
[09:27:29] <PetefromTn_> what cad?
[09:27:34] <malcom2073> Watching a video for it now
[09:27:48] <malcom2073> PetefromTn_: Solidworks
[09:27:52] <PetefromTn_> WOW
[09:28:06] <PetefromTn_> why don't you just use the free CAM for solidworks.
[09:28:06] <malcom2073> Perk of my job, they have a license :)
[09:28:14] <PetefromTn_> HSM works
[09:28:16] <_methods> yeah lol
[09:28:17] <_methods> hsm
[09:28:19] <malcom2073> didn't even know there was one, I just pretend to be a mechanical engineer
[09:28:21] <PetefromTn_> it is supposed to be very good
[09:28:22] <malcom2073> I'm not *actually* one
[09:30:11] <PetefromTn_> mrsun__ I know right.. having made a LOT of jigs and fixtures like that having a big flatbed CNC router would be kickass
[09:30:30] <mrsun__> =)
[09:30:41] <mrsun__> and no material bill for jigs ?=)
[09:30:43] <PetefromTn_> we used to make some rather massive elaborate corporate conference tables in pieces using the CNC router at the shop I used to work in.
[09:30:55] <_methods> wow the guy i made the boat welding fixture for just sold 2 boats at the boat show here this weekend and ordered 6 more
[09:31:01] <PetefromTn_> they had the pod system which was nice but can be a pain in the ass...
[09:31:16] <PetefromTn_> nice methods.
[09:31:17] <_methods> https://www.facebook.com/Castandblastboats
[09:32:02] <PetefromTn_> aluminum?
[09:32:41] <_methods> yeah
[09:32:49] <PetefromTn_> DAMN my wife is making her WORLD FAMOUS Chicken Chimichanga's and I can smell the chicken cooking in the crock pot....MMMMMMmmmmm
[09:33:09] <_methods> heheh
[09:33:50] <PetefromTn_> shits slow here this week unfortunately.... glad to hear someone has got work..
[09:33:59] <_methods> yeah man we're slammed
[09:34:09] <PetefromTn_> I am going to order the spindle motor today I found one on fleabay that should work nicely.
[09:34:10] <_methods> much better than the place we were about 6 months ago
[09:34:24] <_methods> i thought i was gonna have to find another job
[09:34:33] <PetefromTn_> I have some bids out that seemed to meet with good response but no money yet..
[09:35:22] <archivist> what is this work you speak of?
[09:35:28] <malcom2073> Alright so it looks like HSMXPress is free for 2d toolpaths, but not 3d. That'll get me started though
[09:35:46] <PetefromTn_> really?
[09:36:00] <PetefromTn_> I thought it was 3d too just not fourth axis etc.
[09:36:24] <malcom2073> Just 2d, 2.5d/3d/4th and 5th axis are all a part of HSMWorks, which is not free
[09:36:39] <PetefromTn_> damn that bites
[09:37:01] <archivist> lots of editing to put the .5 in
[09:37:07] <PetefromTn_> I would seriously look into that fusion 360 then it is free and 3d too I think.
[09:37:28] <PetefromTn_> LOL
[09:37:30] <malcom2073> The website said fusion 360 was $25 a month?
[09:37:35] <malcom2073> hah archivist
[09:37:42] <PetefromTn_> it is free for startups and hobbyists
[09:37:56] <malcom2073> Ah ok, I'll have to look and see what the limitations are
[09:38:35] <PetefromTn_> honestly it is amazing that you can get 3d CAM for free whatsoever anywhere it is rather complex software at the end of the day.
[09:39:05] <malcom2073> hmm, free to use if you're a student, or 1 year free trial (renewable as free) as long as you don't sell anything :/
[09:39:21] <malcom2073> No more amazing than the fact that you can get mills for super cheap
[09:39:27] <PetefromTn_> I thought you said you were a hobbyist
[09:39:44] <malcom2073> I am a hobbiest, but what if a buddyof mine wants me to make him something? Doies that count as a sale?
[09:40:07] <malcom2073> limitations like that scare me
[09:40:26] <PetefromTn_> depends on your own level of honesty I suppose heh
[09:40:44] <archivist> I cannot charge but a donations is acceptable
[09:40:58] <malcom2073> If there's no money involved I don't care, but if there's any money involved, I try to be honest :)
[09:41:30] <archivist> I get donations for manual scanning
[09:42:00] <archivist> I never quote a price. seems to confuse some :)
[09:42:11] <PetefromTn_> all I can tell you is that it is REAL easy to spend a lot of time learning a CAM program and choosing one that will be around for awhile and be supported for cheap is not too easy to do.
[09:42:21] <malcom2073> Yeah
[09:42:48] <PetefromTn_> nothing worse then spending many hours getting familiar with something only to learn it is no supported anymore or that it is not capable of doing what you need it to.
[09:43:13] <malcom2073> That's what scares me about solidworks a bit, if I ever lose/leave this job, I'll lose access to it
[09:43:39] <PetefromTn_> having access to an integrated CAD CAM package like fusion 360 even for their asking price is pretty impressive
[09:43:56] <archivist> is there an education price for solidworks
[09:44:18] <malcom2073> archivist: there is, but it has pretty heavily limitations on it as well iirc
[09:44:20] <PetefromTn_> I hear ya man I only have access to solidworks and mastercam at my side job
[09:44:34] <PetefromTn_> and they are kickass programs
[09:44:41] <PetefromTn_> but they come at a very high cost
[09:45:33] <PetefromTn_> if you are a fulltime student you can get solidworks for really low prices.
[09:45:38] <malcom2073> I'm not heh
[09:45:45] <PetefromTn_> me neither
[09:46:12] <PetefromTn_> fusion 360 is based on autodesk stuff which is also big in industry
[09:46:22] <malcom2073> yeah I've used autocad years ago
[09:46:36] <malcom2073> Never used autodesk mechanical, but I hear it's nice
[09:46:36] <PetefromTn_> so if you spend time learning it you will probably be better off than some of the cheap/free options.
[09:46:46] <archivist> autocad= etch a sketch
[09:46:50] <PetefromTn_> it looks more like inventor.
[09:47:09] <PetefromTn_> I love autocad for drafting
[09:47:23] <archivist> I hate it
[09:47:29] <PetefromTn_> a lot of the simpler parts I make are just 2d drawings
[09:47:46] <PetefromTn_> I can make them really quickly in autocad clone
[09:47:55] <archivist> once you touch solidworks you realise how backwards it is
[09:48:25] <malcom2073> Most of the stuff I'm playing with, I'm trying to make the parts as simple to machine as possible heh, mainly for a lack of knowing a good CAM, I'm trying to make them hand-codable
[09:48:26] <PetefromTn_> I have played with Solidworks quite a bit it is impressive
[09:54:01] <_methods> it's free for students, startups, and hobbyists
[09:54:07] <_methods> oops
[09:54:17] <pcw_home> PetefromTn_: you might try the DC brake option, its not very invasive (wont have any effect on your normal operation)
[09:55:15] <pcw_home> that is you can still use modbus, and the programming change in the VFD doesnt have any side effects
[09:56:12] <PetefromTn_> yeah I know you said that do you think the analog control with PID feedback will not work for some reason?
[09:57:05] <PetefromTn_> not really clear about how to get it to move to the position before braking it
[09:57:18] <Jymmm> This is awesome... http://vimeo.com/107263462
[09:57:42] <pcw_home> you rotate slowly and apply the brake when in position
[09:58:14] <PetefromTn_> ok so basically just like what Lee has done but without the solenoid using the brake instead
[09:58:24] <PetefromTn_> so timing would be very important
[09:58:25] <pcw_home> Yes
[09:58:52] <pcw_home> the VFD can be setup to have a brake inout pin
[09:58:58] <pcw_home> input
[09:59:12] <pcw_home> this should be quite fast
[09:59:30] <PetefromTn_> I would think that the fact that the motor to spindle ratio is 2-1 should help with this
[10:00:34] <PetefromTn_> so I guess you would look for the index pulse and then time the brake from there to get it to stop at the appropriate position while spinning slowly.
[10:00:51] <pcw_home> not timed, encoder count
[10:01:20] <pcw_home> (there may be some offset from index)
[10:01:28] <PetefromTn_> sounds like we would need some fancy programming for that no?
[10:01:36] <PetefromTn_> probably will be some offset
[10:01:50] <PetefromTn_> I doubt I got it perfect when I set it up LOL..
[10:02:11] <pcw_home> not too bad, I think standard hal components
[10:02:35] <pcw_home> but its should be very easy to test
[10:03:53] <PetefromTn_> I am reading about the dynamic braking in the manual right now
[10:04:45] <skunkworks> I don't think you want dynamic braking - you want dc injection braking.....
[10:06:09] <PetefromTn_> yeah section 4-20 has something about it.
[10:06:19] <pcw_home> what skunkworks says
[10:07:26] <pcw_home> so enable the brake input
[10:07:27] <pcw_home> set the DC current to maybe 20% (more if you are brave)
[10:07:28] <pcw_home> wire 7I77 output to brake input
[10:07:30] <pcw_home> test
[10:08:44] <PetefromTn_> the manual says the DC braking is only intended for use as a decelleration aid not a holding brake.
[10:09:07] <shadowjack> with braking it seems quite possible to achieve.
[10:11:38] <Jymmm> BRAKE TEST... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RZjhxuhTmGk
[10:11:47] <shadowjack> I think they forbid holding as it could overheat windings, and there is no cooling
[10:13:06] <pcw_home> unless there a separate fan
[10:13:31] <PetefromTn_> the motor has a seperate AC fan on top.
[10:14:18] <pcw_home> yeah common for spindles that have to grunt along at high torque and low speed
[10:16:04] <pcw_home> in any case it would not be applied for more than 10 or 20 seconds
[10:17:04] <Jymmm> PetefromTn's Brake Test 2.0 (you still will never get me in one) https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&x-yt-ts=1421914688&x-yt-cl=84503534&v=9iKGfo1wmOM#t=132
[10:25:56] <PetefromTn_> heh while I hear they are pretty safe in a crash I agree....not for me. I will take the gas hit and be comfy in my Bronco LOL
[10:32:11] <Jymmm> WHOLY CRAP ON A CRACKER.... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f2E8ZUgxLmI
[10:32:27] <Jymmm> I'm impressed
[10:39:29] <PetefromTn_> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yn2b2N1EMUE
[10:39:47] <malcom2073> Haha wow Jymmm
[10:40:05] <Jymmm> malcom2073: exactly
[10:40:31] <malcom2073> I just thought it'd be halarious if it was yanno, like 10ft deep. Plop, they disappear
[10:41:16] <Jymmm> lol
[10:41:39] <malcom2073> I was disappointed, but I'm ok with it I think
[10:42:06] <Jymmm> And THAT'S why I carry 100ft line marked every yard =)
[10:42:18] <Jymmm> ...and a weight.
[10:44:06] <malcom2073> haha]
[10:44:07] <malcom2073> yeah
[10:45:40] <Jymmm> Alright, this HAS to be GPS controlled https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6o_xLUapFmE
[10:49:22] <malcom2073> They already have GPS controlled semi-autonomous combines (driver just monitors, doesn't actually drive), so why not?
[10:50:23] <Jymmm> yeah
[10:50:36] <PetefromTn_> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=beEUlgYP5tw
[10:52:13] <Jymmm> They act like it's a family outting, lol... https://www.youtube.com/watch?x-yt-ts=1421914688&x-yt-cl=84503534&v=vu7XlLeGWsc
[10:54:40] <malcom2073> Once a year at my high school we had "ag" day. Basically a day where all the farmboys (most people) brought in their tractors for everyone else to check out
[10:55:22] <malcom2073> Damn that's a cool machine though
[10:56:10] <Jymmm> malcom2073: youll love this then... https://www.youtube.com/watch?x-yt-ts=1421914688&x-yt-cl=84503534&v=rPhObgMLAmY
[10:56:23] <malcom2073> Jymmm: I'm trying to get work done... you know that?
[10:56:25] <malcom2073> :P
[10:56:41] <Jymmm> I know NUT-TING!
[10:56:44] <malcom2073> Hah
[10:56:54] <malcom2073> I was expecting something really cool, that's just a cherrypicker :(
[10:57:15] <Jymmm> Huh?
[10:57:42] <pcw_home> a hexapod cherrypicker though
[10:57:45] <malcom2073> True
[10:57:54] <Jymmm> and converoyer system
[10:57:59] <Jymmm> built in
[10:59:52] <FinboySlick> I'm wondering if they're wearing the suits to protect themselves from scratches or from the giant amounts of insecticide they put on those trees.
[11:00:17] <malcom2073> heh
[11:00:49] <pcw_home> Grapefruit trees are pretty thorny
[11:03:30] <Jymmm> Yeah they are. and 3/4" fuckers too
[11:03:44] <Jymmm> Up to
[11:08:06] <PetefromTn_> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zL2n7bc29uc amazing..
[11:09:52] <MattyMatt> has anyone used a capacitor for spot welding battery tabs? A comment on a video suggested 1F charged to 12V
[11:10:15] <_methods> yeah
[11:10:20] <PetefromTn_> the one thing that sucks about my big bronco is that it is much too clean and nice to take for any serious wheeling like I used to do with my many Suzuki Samurai Rock crawlers I built.
[11:10:21] <_methods> i built one
[11:10:50] <MattyMatt> does it work?
[11:11:12] <MattyMatt> and how big a cap did you use? I've got nothing like 1F
[11:11:40] <_methods> i used a 3f
[11:12:25] <MattyMatt> eek. OK I'll concentrate on plan A. I have 2 microwaves to harvest
[11:12:49] <_methods> if you have smaller caps you could make a bank
[11:12:59] <_methods> i think i saw a plan for one with a bunch of transistors
[11:13:20] <MattyMatt> that still gets expensive
[11:13:29] <_methods> http://imgur.com/WOeppkE,wBboClL,AGOR02D,3NCryxT#3
[11:13:47] <_methods> i used an old server psu and a 3f cap
[11:13:51] <MattyMatt> 10 quality caps in parallel, and that's $20-$30 down the drain
[11:14:05] <_methods> and the SCR
[11:14:17] <_methods> i think i paid a bit for the SCR
[11:15:44] <MattyMatt> I got 20 moribund thinkpads for £106. I'll have to spend half again to get them all psu, but I'm trying to avoid buying 20 new bios batteries
[11:16:08] <MattyMatt> and then half of the main batteries need rebuilding too. more spot welding :p
[11:16:10] <_methods> well if you have a good soldering iron you can just solder them
[11:16:37] <MattyMatt> that was total fail with my crappy iron
[11:16:58] <_methods> yeah you need a good iron
[11:17:11] <_methods> all that surface area will not be good for a cheap iron
[11:17:45] <_methods> if you overheat the battery you can kill it too depending on the type of battery
[11:18:03] <MattyMatt> CR2032
[11:18:44] <_methods> you can buy them with solder tabs on them already
[11:19:15] <_methods> http://www.ebay.com/itm/like/380705414321?lpid=82&chn=ps
[11:21:06] <MattyMatt> at $6 each, I'd almost recoup that with 20 off on a $100 chinese welding tool
[11:21:28] <MattyMatt> and then I still have the tool for rebuilding the main batteries
[11:23:47] <PetefromTn_> http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/politics/2015/01/26/obama-white-house-device-josh-earnest/22338781/ quadcopter lands on white house lawn LOL
[11:23:49] <MattyMatt> cheapo plan C, electroplate the CR2032 with copper or tin
[11:28:33] <archivist> MattyMatt, are you asleep http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/25-x-Varta-Cr2032-Solder-Tabs-Tagged-Lithium-Batteries-Horizontal-PCB-Battery-/151527317045
[11:34:08] <MattyMatt> hand welded by the Batley Townswomen's Guild :)
[11:34:30] <MattyMatt> cheers. I'm usually quite good at ebay searching
[11:34:40] <archivist> there are others
[11:35:55] <archivist> my search term was cr2032 solder
[11:36:11] <MattyMatt> thinkpads kinda need the tabs at specific angles, so ideally I'd still find a way to weld/solder the old tags and pigtails
[11:36:35] <MattyMatt> but those will do, I can fold the new tags and solder to the old
[11:38:42] <MattyMatt> heatshrink will hide the crime
[11:39:07] <archivist> there are some in heatshrink on fleabay
[11:39:23] <Vertices> wow, I guess you could load a quadcopter with explosives, fly it into the white house, and there is literally zero defensive line protecting against that
[11:39:28] <MattyMatt> plenty, but £2.50 each approx
[11:41:06] <MattyMatt> I wasn't expecting so many of these to work. I got approx 18 with screens, 15 with full keyboards, and at least 10 with hard drives
[11:42:29] <MattyMatt> the 2 I'm using already even have main batteries that last an hour
[11:43:44] <MattyMatt> 3x R1 have EPP ports. they're the ones I'm trying to get linuxcnc on, although they choke on wheezy, so no 2.6 I fear
[11:45:02] <MattyMatt> even with xfce, unusably slow
[11:45:27] <MattyMatt> I could measure latency with a stopwatch :p
[11:47:08] <MattyMatt> 3x R31 I meant. I got a few T4x and lots of R5x
[11:47:20] <MattyMatt> all black
[11:49:47] <PetefromTn_> Vertices it would seem to be so huh..
[11:50:03] <MattyMatt> my first thought was laser turret
[11:50:37] <MattyMatt> emp cannon would bring down a toy easy enough
[11:51:05] <MattyMatt> same model they're issuing police for stopping modern cars
[11:51:06] <PetefromTn_> there are a myriad of ways to bring down a quadcopter/multicopter
[11:51:36] <MattyMatt> without collateral damage, is the point :)
[11:51:50] <MattyMatt> trained suicide pidgeons
[11:51:54] <PetefromTn_> never said anything to the contrary
[11:52:31] <MattyMatt> anyway, I'm English. white houses are made for burnin
[11:53:28] <PetefromTn_> considering the white house is said to have an anti aircraft ground to air missile system in place so I would think when it comes to protecting the president collateral damage is not terribly high on the priorities list.
[11:54:25] <MattyMatt> it's all soft power these days. missiles are too much to use on internal enemies, especially children with their christmas quadcopter
[11:54:57] <MattyMatt> you need appropriate force
[11:55:10] <PetefromTn_> yeah well from the pictures I seriously doubt that was any kid with a Christmas gift.
[11:55:12] <MattyMatt> so small missiles as well as big ones
[11:56:07] <PetefromTn_> it is an electronic radio controlled device....there is no need for any projectiles really.
[11:56:25] <MattyMatt> yep EMP gun is obvious choice
[11:56:52] <gonzo___> or just jam the RC
[11:57:41] <MattyMatt> anything that flies over the boundary. metal rings on bird's legs would be the largest thing you'd allow through safely
[11:58:49] <MattyMatt> most rings are plastic these days, but sod's law says you'll zap a 40yo rare species on day 1
[12:00:07] <gonzo___> the amount of EMP required to even warm a metal ring detectably, would be more of a risk to the people you are trying to defent
[12:00:38] <MattyMatt> aye, that's what I started to mean :) high limit
[12:01:29] <MattyMatt> seagull's ipod will die, but the seagull won't
[12:01:46] <MattyMatt> a ring of dead birds around the perimeter wouldn't be great PR
[12:02:48] <malcom2073> Better off just using standard jammers, they produce enough EMF to screw with systems on *any* drone really, pretty much make it drop out of the sky
[12:03:01] <gonzo___> emp even to take out toy grade electronics at any realistic distance is enormous
[12:03:58] <gonzo___> jamming the RC is easy, unless it has been modified to work somewhere that they are not listening and have no jam gear.
[12:04:08] <MattyMatt> they've got military grade, for a fixed installation should be super simple to install and power
[12:04:38] <malcom2073> gonzo___: It would jam the rc, gps, any video link, and likely screw with the inertial reference
[12:04:59] <MattyMatt> maybe they're only watching for light aircraft etc. on a radar a quad probably looks like a bird
[12:05:16] <gonzo___> most RC is on 2.4GHz, so they would take out any wlan in the area too
[12:05:25] <malcom2073> Detection is more the problem than jamming
[12:05:39] <gonzo___> blanket jamming would be more of an own goal
[12:05:49] <gonzo___> agreed
[12:08:30] <MattyMatt> fast rotating passive radar stations around the property, for triangulating by EMI. that'd give a fix on all radios on the property
[12:09:23] <MattyMatt> which may be a security issue in itself :p
[12:10:05] <MattyMatt> you don't want the guards to know who's meeting who in the rose garden
[12:10:46] <malcom2073> Not even rotating, just time synced frequency analysers with static antennas spread around could do that
[12:11:00] <malcom2073> Exactly like the gunshot directional detectors, but slightly faster heh
[12:11:14] <gonzo___> no reason why a drone need TX at alll
[12:11:21] <SpeedEvil> Blanket jaming has the major risk - sticky footprints.
[12:12:02] <gonzo___> it's a sad day when the .gov are going around jamming peoples blankets
[12:12:15] <malcom2073> gonzo___: one might say... a cold day in hell?
[12:12:15] <malcom2073> :P
[12:12:32] <MattyMatt> that's not the worst of what you get for eating toast in bed
[12:12:39] <malcom2073> Jammers are rarely left to run all the time, usually time and direction targed
[12:13:13] <MattyMatt> yeah the first problem is detecting, and distinquishing from a bird
[12:13:44] <MattyMatt> a quadcopter is small threat once detected
[12:14:47] <MattyMatt> unless the SS start popping caps at it while it's still over the fence
[12:15:46] <MattyMatt> are tourists collateral damage or merely incidental losses?
[12:17:13] * MattyMatt kickstarts Quad-B-Gone
[12:22:20] <Computer_Barf> hey MattyMatt
[12:22:37] <Computer_Barf> cool to see some of the 3d printing folks over here
[12:23:18] <SpeedEvil> Killing UAVs, but not bird-like UAVs is hard.
[12:23:38] <malcom2073> MattyMatt: I'd back it
[12:38:39] <MattyMatt> I've started modelling orville the quadcopter cat. it was for ksp originally, but a printed one would be cool
[12:39:57] <MattyMatt> he looks so happy. I wonder what other cats think
[13:00:37] <SpeedEvil> Make a little carbon fibre braced suit, strap them in for a ride, and then ask them
[13:03:12] <MattyMatt> I was tempted to teach this cat here to hangglide when he was younger
[13:03:41] <MattyMatt> chuck him out the window strapped to a toy kite, basically, with his paws on the bar
[13:04:06] <MattyMatt> he'd have 20 ft of glide slope to get the knack
[13:05:33] <SpeedEvil> Should be fine.
[13:06:30] <Rab> MattyMatt, you only get one shot though, because that cat is never coming back.
[13:06:32] <MattyMatt> if he'd come back for a 2nd go, it'd be a new thing
[13:07:04] <MattyMatt> 1st go would be enough for the youtube hit >:)
[13:27:20] <shadowjack> There is no problem to make autonomous quad, tech is already there (arducopter). So jamming is ineffective.
[13:28:56] * LeelooMinai throws a bottle of jam at arducopter and it drops to the ground
[13:29:03] <shadowjack> You can try to jam GPS, but clever attacker will use antenna with upper hemisphere diagram
[13:29:50] <shadowjack> heck, you can fly 1km up and just dive
[13:30:28] <shadowjack> very low radar cross-section, too
[13:33:22] <SpeedEvil> shadowjack: one milliwatt can _completely_ jam commercial GPS over a very long distance
[13:33:39] <SpeedEvil> Each satellite covers the earth with effectively 50kW of signal.
[13:33:47] <SpeedEvil> 50W if you have a smart jammer.
[13:34:52] <shadowjack> what? 50kW? Come on, it's much smaller
[13:35:43] <skunkworks> that would be rather large solar panels..
[13:38:08] <skunkworks> maybe effective radiated power...
[13:40:12] <shadowjack> how power radiated can be greater than electrical power?
[13:40:22] <Vertices> hey all, im looking to build a rather large cnc plasma table. the table is already there, and can be modified. it's 4 x 10, and I was thinking of doing typical X-Y gantry. I plan to work out an approximate weight, then select motors, then fine tune the structure. Is this appropriate, or should I start with the motors and controllers?
[13:40:55] <_methods> well you already have the table right?
[13:41:01] <Vertices> yes
[13:41:12] <shadowjack> Block II have around 1kw from panels. Block III somewhat more
[13:41:29] <skunkworks> shadowjack, it takes into account the gain of the attena...
[13:42:03] <_methods> ah so you are still designing the gantry sorry
[13:42:10] <SpeedEvil> shadowjack: times coding gain
[13:42:25] <Vertices> yeah all I have is a big table. it happens to have other things attached, but that's not important
[13:42:32] <Vertices> I'd rather determine ideal design
[13:42:38] <SpeedEvil> hence '50w with a smart jammer'
[13:42:44] <_methods> yeah sorry i thought you had the whole thing gantry and tagble
[13:42:48] <Vertices> I realize stiffness/deflection is an issue, and I can calculate it
[13:42:50] <_methods> so i guess it's up to you
[13:42:54] <Vertices> I'm looking for gear advice.
[13:43:02] <Vertices> like, tracks, teeth, stepper motors, etc
[13:43:12] <Vertices> never done this before
[13:43:21] <SpeedEvil> Vertices: I recommend Lego tecnics.
[13:43:29] <shadowjack> coding gain relates to SNR/BER, not power.
[13:43:35] <Vertices> lol
[13:44:08] <PetefromTn_> pics of plasma table please!
[13:45:18] <FinboySlick> PetefromTn_: Not a plasma table but just as useful (if a tad inappropriate) http://macromeme.com/dog/rock-paper-job.html
[13:45:49] <PetefromTn_> a tad?
[13:46:05] <FinboySlick> It settles all marital arguments though.
[13:46:22] <PetefromTn_> martital arguments? what is that?
[13:47:06] <SpeedEvil> shadowjack: coding gain * emitted power is the amount of power you need to jam with a random jammer.
[13:47:21] <SpeedEvil> Emitted power is the amount you need to jam with a jammer that can meacon
[13:47:27] <shadowjack> GPS satellites are up. Jamming is down (or ground level). So antenna with right diagram can effectively reduce jamming effects. But consumer devices will be inoperative in large radius. There are also other means of navigation - inertial, cell/WiFi.
[13:47:34] <Vertices> I found the all-in-one source
[13:47:41] <Vertices> http://www.cncroutersource.com/homemade-cnc-router.html
[13:48:05] <SpeedEvil> shadowjack: you can't do selecting 'up' very well with simple antennas.
[13:48:34] <_methods> Vertices: just copy their gantry then
[13:48:34] <SpeedEvil> shadowjack: indeed - selective GPS antennas are ITAR regulated as munitions.
[13:50:23] <Vertices> the gantry is the easy part for me to design
[13:50:45] <CaptHindsight> who said my beam steering phased array was for GPS?
[13:51:02] <shadowjack> Are they? I'm not in US.
[13:51:33] <PetefromTn_> woohoo I just bid on a spindle motor for the lathe and won it!
[13:52:09] <SpeedEvil> CaptHindsight: getting it so that you're 90dB down is _hard_
[13:52:11] <PetefromTn_> bye bye paypal money hehe
[13:52:18] <shadowjack> SpeedEvil, your formula lacks distance term and so is invalid
[13:52:33] <shadowjack> re jamming, I mean
[13:52:43] <SpeedEvil> shadowjack: no, it's not. It's a power for a whole hemisphere
[13:53:24] <_methods> PetefromTn_: congrats you going to pick it up or brown santa
[13:53:41] <PetefromTn_> freight
[13:53:52] <_methods> right on
[13:54:08] <PetefromTn_> 7.5 HP spindle motor is probably not gonna be something brown santa wants to carry around LOL
[13:54:40] <malcom2073> PetefromTn_: I got a delivery of two 2600mm long thk rails from brown the other day, they were not happy with me
[13:54:47] <shadowjack> lol, GPS freqs are line-of-sight, so you need to put your jammer pretty high
[13:54:50] <malcom2073> The boxes were easily 3 meters long
[13:55:27] <PetefromTn_> yeah I don't remember the weight limit but this is probably over it... besides it's not my problem.
[13:55:27] <shadowjack> to cover hemisphere that is
[13:56:34] <SpeedEvil> shadowjack: quite - I was saying the power of each GPS sat - as a comparison. Clearly if its' 50/50kW/hemisphere, then the amount you need to kill a 5km radius is near zero, even at - say - 30dB over nominal
[13:57:23] <PetefromTn_> funny..
[13:57:40] <PetefromTn_> I was just watching the new Star Trek movie
[13:57:40] <_methods> i got my x2 minimill and the ups guy was quite perturbed
[13:58:10] <PetefromTn_> and there is a part where James Kirk is in bed with a pair of hot chicks with tails
[13:58:17] <PetefromTn_> and there is music playing
[13:58:48] <PetefromTn_> it LOOKS like the music is being played on a couple of tube amps and Pre-amps using a record player...
[13:59:30] <PetefromTn_> don't know why but I found that amusing..
[14:04:11] <shadowjack> GPS is not that easy to jam, you know. For "brute force" jamming you need order or two of magnitude signal. Because of all that pseudo-random correlation stuff
[14:06:38] <roycroft> but you never see jim kirk in bed
[14:06:41] <roycroft> that was forbidden
[14:06:49] <roycroft> you would always see him putting his boots on
[14:07:43] <PetefromTn_> http://audiowood.com/gallery/bachelor.html
[14:08:36] <roycroft> nice turntable
[14:09:08] <roycroft> the directv installer who was at my house a couple weeks ago freaked out about my hifi
[14:09:09] <PetefromTn_> yeah and there was a large valve amp and pre-amp too but it dark and hard to see what kind it was. Neat tho that they did that.
[14:09:13] <roycroft> yes, there's a turntable
[14:09:21] <roycroft> the hifi is a vintage mcintosh system
[14:09:32] <PetefromTn_> hard to beat a nice turntable
[14:09:39] <roycroft> he could not understand why i would run audio out from my tv to my hifi
[14:09:40] <PetefromTn_> I gotta go pickup my kids. BBS
[14:09:53] <roycroft> because i could not adjust the volume with the remote, and the mcintosh does not have a remote
[14:10:20] <roycroft> i told him that's one way to avoid being a couch potato - i actually have to get up and walk across the room to adjust the volume
[14:10:21] <CaptHindsight> roycroft: sure but the feelings between Spock and Kirk were shown in other ways https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rPRtRj213C8
[14:10:24] <roycroft> and i think that's a feature
[14:11:39] <roycroft> but spock really loved bilbo baggins
[14:11:45] <roycroft> www.roycroft.us/bilbo.mov
[14:12:47] <CaptHindsight> "Video can't be played beacuse the file is corrupt"
[14:12:51] <roycroft> huh?
[14:13:09] <roycroft> it plays fine for me
[14:13:34] <roycroft> hippie chicks and all
[14:13:40] <CaptHindsight> probably the default played in the browser
[14:13:42] <shadowjack> Vertices, what exactly do you want to know?
[14:14:21] <SpeedEvil> New revolutionary 3d modeling system.
[14:14:23] <SpeedEvil> http://ponylumen.net/games/3d-pony-creator/
[14:14:35] <roycroft> there's probably a youtube version
[14:14:42] <roycroft> because everything is on youtube
[14:15:13] <roycroft> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AGF5ROpjRAU
[14:15:15] <roycroft> there you go
[14:15:46] <CaptHindsight> lots cheaper to, until now I had to create my Pony's in NX
[14:17:05] <SpeedEvil> Someone linked me to it as an example of a web modeler. It will even output 3d models.
[14:18:09] * SpeedEvil wishes for decent random 3d model stuff.
[14:20:00] <FinboySlick> That pony generator has no output on my machine. Is it windows only?
[14:21:36] <CaptHindsight> it uses WebGL
[14:21:44] <FinboySlick> I think WebGL is roughly equivalent to OpenGL_ES, it would technically be enough to make a relatively decent modeler (assuming the poly count isn't too insane).
[14:21:48] <CaptHindsight> won't even load in Chrome
[14:22:30] <FinboySlick> Won't work in Linux firefox 34 either.
[14:23:10] <CaptHindsight> same here or Konquerer
[14:25:02] <CaptHindsight> http://www.3ders.org/articles/20150123-reprap-central-invites-makers-to-develop-fused-layer-manufacturing-3d-printers.html
[14:25:18] <CaptHindsight> ^^ for the filament fetishists
[14:26:05] <_methods> hehe
[14:26:07] <CaptHindsight> thermoplastic version of SLA/DLP
[14:26:09] <_methods> the FF crowd
[14:27:33] <CaptHindsight> laminating layers that are cnc cut would be faster
[14:28:08] <_methods> http://www.youtube.com/watch?x-yt-cl=84503534&v=iCEiL2iREm4&x-yt-ts=1421914688
[14:31:18] <Rab> Very old 3D printers cut layers (vinyl plotting?) which were stacked.
[14:31:44] <Vertices> shadowjack hi, I'm just starting to learn about CNC. I have a couple steppers here that I can flex with an arduino. It looks like the design goals are: 1) plasma cutter torch only (so, light weight and doesn't need as much lateral reinforcing as a routerhead) 2) Fixed table with aluminum plate-and-truss construction xy gantry 3) 4' span 4) 10' travel 5) 2d cuts only (no z-axis nuttiness)
[14:31:44] <Vertices> . Once I ballpark gantry dead weight, can I start picking motors and track?
[14:31:44] <_methods> yeah tape
[14:31:45] <CaptHindsight> and rehashed using paper and then patented
[14:31:59] <Vertices> shadowjack btw I'm learnin here: http://www.cncroutersource.com/hobby-cnc-router.html
[14:32:11] <_methods> old tape 3d printer was the first one i ever used
[14:32:39] <Rab> Vertices, you need a Z axis even for 2D cuts (unless they're continuous, from the edge of the material ^_^).
[14:32:53] <Vertices> yes but I'm not going to be operating on the z axis
[14:33:01] <Vertices> it's making 2d cuts
[14:33:52] <SpeedEvil> Vertices: first thing to spec is your travel and how much flex you're willing to put up with.
[14:34:03] <Vertices> very low deflection. I can engineer that part.
[14:34:12] <Vertices> 10' travel
[14:34:57] <Vertices> the 10' rails can be supported intermittently without problems
[14:35:03] <FinboySlick> Vertices: You're in for quite a project, I think.
[14:35:07] <Vertices> ie, studs at every foot
[14:35:21] <Vertices> yep
[14:35:32] <Rab> The simplest and most controllable mechanism for plunging the tool might be indistinguishable from a proportional Z axis. You could use a solenoid or pneumatic actuator or something, but you still need a means of setting depth...might as well be programmatic.
[14:35:33] <Vertices> im not new to microcontrollers or soldering tho
[14:35:58] <Vertices> Rab sure, understood. I have a motor here for that already and there's an arduino lib
[14:36:19] <FinboySlick> Vertices: You probably want real drivers and a parallel interface.
[14:36:52] <Rab> Vertices, moving gantry?
[14:36:59] <CaptHindsight> Vertices: going with belt driven?
[14:38:21] <Vertices> well this plasma head is like 2 pounds
[14:38:26] <Vertices> super light weight
[14:38:31] <Vertices> but yeah okay
[14:38:58] <CaptHindsight> Vertices: whats your budget?
[14:39:02] <SpeedEvil> don't forget cable managment
[14:39:25] <SpeedEvil> - how heavy and how much force do the cable and ga feeds need
[14:39:48] <Rab> Vertices, if your gantry moves, youneed to drive both sides
[14:39:50] <CaptHindsight> https://www.tinkercad.com/things/eoXEE1FnOBl-horse says horse but it looks like a big pony to me
[14:40:22] <Rab> Vertices, and for 10' travel, take a look at servobelt (trade name): http://machinedesign.com/linear-motion/belt-actuator-has-quadruple-force-earlier-model
[14:40:42] <Vertices> budget is "I'll spend what I must to get good specs on all the electromechanical components"
[14:40:49] <Rab> Huge thread with people homebrewing it: http://www.cnczone.com/forums/linear-and-rotary-motion/59570-forum.html
[14:40:50] <Vertices> structural materials are free
[14:41:44] <Vertices> nice, Rab. looks great
[14:42:03] <Vertices> plus unlike other tubular rail setups, this will accept support from beneath
[14:42:06] <FinboySlick> Rab: That's a very clever belt design.
[14:42:08] <Rab> 10' travel will be $$$ if screw driven. Some people use garage door opener screws, or chain drive (poor resolution)...but for light loads, belts are really cheap.
[14:42:23] <SpeedEvil> If you're willing to spend a lot - you might also consider if you want to make it decent enough to hook say a router to
[14:42:27] <Rab> FinboySlick, yeah, it's pretty slick...overcomes a lot of problems with conventional belt drives.
[14:43:25] <SpeedEvil> A lot more than doing it for the absolute basics with duct tape, I mean
[14:43:30] <_methods> for a plasma i'd stick with rack and pinion
[14:43:37] <_methods> plasma makes slag
[14:43:44] <_methods> belts and slag = tears
[14:44:09] <_methods> just my $0.02
[14:44:11] <Rab> _methods, any transport will have to be protected, but good point.
[14:44:16] <Vertices> Rab I think I should just use belts. I am working with the shop guy on this. He's not a computer guy, that's me. I'm not really a shop guy. He says go with lightweight solutions, if he wants heavy duty he'll just make another table or gantry
[14:44:40] <Vertices> so I bookmarked your servobelt
[14:47:01] <FinboySlick> Rab: Also lowers the chances of debris between belt and pulley.
[14:47:56] <_methods> heh on a plasma you'll definitely need some shielding around any drive system
[14:48:02] <malcom2073> servobelt ftw, I'm working on a design that utilizes that
[14:48:06] <_methods> you'd be suprised how slag finds a way into anything
[14:48:22] <_methods> it's miraculous stuff
[14:49:34] <Vertices> _methods thanks for the warning to guard the belts
[14:50:27] <malcom2073> I've yet to figure out the best method to protect my belt/rails from chips and the like
[14:50:31] <_methods> np
[14:50:52] <Vertices> how's that normally done?
[14:51:11] <Vertices> L channel that goes over the top of it, and an offset at the base?
[14:51:26] <Vertices> *L or channel
[14:52:04] <_methods> bellows
[14:55:32] <CaptHindsight> the best way is to avoid cutting anything that creates chips and contamination :)
[14:55:44] <SpeedEvil> Plasma doesn't make chips
[14:56:22] <SpeedEvil> There is always 'totally enclose the ballscrews and put lots of airflow through them
[14:56:42] <CaptHindsight> but if you really have to then completely sealing any of the drives and bearings works best
[14:56:44] <PetefromTn_> plasma may not make chips but it sure as hell makes some nasty abrasive shit
[14:56:46] <_methods> plasma makes things worse than chips
[14:57:00] <_methods> chips are a pleasure compared to slag
[14:57:07] <SpeedEvil> ;
[14:57:09] <SpeedEvil> )
[14:57:31] <PetefromTn_> motor is paid for an on it's way! Can't wait to start putting this lathe togethre
[14:57:34] <PetefromTn_> together
[14:57:44] <_methods> dirty, nasty, abrasive and totally invasive
[14:57:45] <Bushman> http://i.imgur.com/9WDukJB.gif
[14:58:00] <CaptHindsight> this must be state the obvious day
[14:58:50] <PetefromTn_> is that what you think in hindsight?
[14:58:52] <_methods> belts are great for spindle drives..........
[14:59:59] <PetefromTn_> so the good news is that 7.5 HP spindle motor should make for a powerful little lathe.....
[15:00:04] <_methods> they used to be useful for spanking your unruly children
[15:00:15] <PetefromTn_> the bad news is that the VFD purchase will be a LOT more expensive because of it...
[15:00:29] <PetefromTn_> which kinda sucks
[15:00:35] <_methods> what size vfd are you going to have to get?
[15:00:37] <_methods> 20hp
[15:00:39] <PetefromTn_> but I would rather have TOO MUCH POWER than not enough
[15:00:56] <PetefromTn_> 15HP 3 phase or a 10HP single phase
[15:00:57] <Vertices> Okay, can I have some group feedback on this guy's architecture, please? IMO his floating head looks a tad too beefy, like he upsized it for future woodwork. Also, his belts are not protected from slag, except around the area doing the cutting. http://www.cnc-arena.com/en/forum/4x46-cnc-plasma-table-build-xalky--152184-2.html#post1107207
[15:01:17] <CaptHindsight> 7.5HP I have cooling fans with bigger motors :)
[15:02:04] <PetefromTn_> yeah well that is about as big a motor that ever came on this machine.
[15:02:12] <CaptHindsight> heh
[15:02:23] <PetefromTn_> we are all well aware that there are FAR MORE POWERFUL motors out there.
[15:02:32] <CaptHindsight> PetefromTn_: which lathe is this you're going to upgrade?
[15:02:35] <PetefromTn_> captainobvious..
[15:02:38] <Vertices> I saw a 30 ton takeup reel moved on airskids.
[15:03:06] <PetefromTn_> its a Standard Modern 14x40 CNC lathe
[15:04:38] <PetefromTn_> http://media.exapro.com/product/2014/07/P40729198/97267dbe011ae80c867be2f26cd9d4e2/used-standard-modern-1640-cnc-lathe-p40729198_2.jpg
[15:04:44] <PetefromTn_> looks basically like that..
[15:05:14] <_methods> Vertices: i think that head is fine for that
[15:05:27] <_methods> i wouldn't be trying to use it as a router though
[15:05:31] <_methods> looks pretty flimsy
[15:05:37] <PetefromTn_> http://www.hhrobertsmachinery.com/used-cnc-lathes/Used_Standard_Modern_cnc_lathe.jpg or that..
[15:06:21] <Vertices> _methods what do you think of his unprotected belts? gone after a few jobs?
[15:06:37] <Vertices> or do you think those wide plates block enough?
[15:06:48] <_methods> they may work fine for awhile
[15:07:05] <_methods> i personally just would not use belts for a plasma
[15:07:18] <_methods> or v bearings
[15:07:30] <Vertices> okay. what about a geared drive?
[15:07:34] <_methods> not sure what this v bearing madness is going around
[15:07:36] <PetefromTn_> that thing is gonna make a horrible mess LOL
[15:07:51] <Vertices> heh okay, this is what I wanted to know, thanks
[15:08:00] <Vertices> I guess I should avoid belts if I can't plan for continuous bellows
[15:08:04] <_methods> these are just my opinions so take them for what they are
[15:08:08] <Vertices> which frankly seem like a hassle
[15:08:41] <_methods> i think he's going to destroy his torch though lol
[15:08:50] <_methods> not sure how it breaks away
[15:08:52] <PetefromTn_> if you are going to make the frame for the plasma table it seems to me that the designs with the raised X rails which put the gantry well above the table would be best..
[15:09:30] <Vertices> _methods - ? http://www.technocnc.com/cnc-router-construction-features/rack_n_pinion.jpg
[15:09:35] <_methods> every plasma table i've ever ran used rack and pinion
[15:09:45] <Vertices> GREAT thank you thats what I wanted to know
[15:09:47] <_methods> Vertices: yes
[15:09:54] <Vertices> okay, will do
[15:09:56] <_methods> put the rack upside down
[15:10:02] <_methods> so slag wont' fall into it
[15:10:11] <_methods> and underneath the rail
[15:10:11] <Vertices> I figured, otherwise blow it out every cut ;)
[15:10:31] <Vertices> yeah so its z vector is subtracting from the dead load
[15:10:53] <Vertices> great, this is great
[15:11:35] <malcom2073> _methods: saw a v bearing 4x8 router at auction a couple of months ago, they were rusted all to hell and didn't look very good, guy said it was less than a year old heh
[15:11:44] <PetefromTn_> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c2nnO-KQiYQ
[15:13:12] <PetefromTn_> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3RCk3zRBotc BIGASS Mechmate plasma table..
[15:15:00] <Vertices> http://www.plasmaspider.com/viewtopic.php?f=12&t=5808
[15:15:06] <Vertices> LOL "I tend to overbuild"
[15:15:21] <Vertices> thanks PetefromTn_ that was fun.
[15:16:12] <_methods> yeah those v bearings are just going to grind stuff into the bearings and ral
[15:16:21] <_methods> and then hardened bearing on aluminum vrail
[15:16:30] <_methods> wonder who will win that fight
[15:16:30] <PetefromTn_> what do you mean?
[15:16:53] <_methods> these alum vrails you see people using now
[15:17:03] <_methods> silliness
[15:18:55] <Vertices> id never trust a rubber puck to not skid under load
[15:20:26] <_methods> yeah that plasmaspider design looks pretty good
[15:20:41] <_methods> oh no the vbearings lol
[15:20:44] <_methods> i spoke too soon
[15:20:52] <mozmck> here's what somebody needs: http://dallas.craigslist.org/ndf/tls/4862213138.html
[15:21:22] <_methods> in his 3d model it looked like he was going to use linear ways
[15:21:27] <_methods> then i get vbearing'd
[15:23:29] <_methods> his z axis is overkill lol
[15:23:44] <Rab> mozmck, 200 miles from me...not convinced I need it though.
[15:23:45] <_methods> heh in the end he came to the conclusion that vbearing suck also
[15:24:02] <_methods> The v-groove bearings have their place, it is just not on my table
[15:24:19] <mozmck> Rab: heh, sounds like a pretty good deal for someone who could use it.
[15:24:43] <_methods> hehe at halloween you can put a lawn chair on the robot arm and give out free rides
[15:25:22] <Rab> Wish the seller had included some model info.
[15:25:43] <Vertices> he had the rack and pinion on the y axis i thot
[15:25:52] <_methods> he does
[15:25:56] <_methods> and x
[15:26:30] <_methods> he had linear ways at first
[15:26:47] <_methods> probably once he started pricing them he changed his mind to vbearings lol
[15:27:06] <_methods> vbearings and angle iron are much cheaper than linear ways
[15:27:17] <mozmck> With all the junk that gets on the ways, I would think vbearings are preferrable to linear ways.
[15:27:20] <Vertices> yes, extremely light hobby loads
[15:27:39] <_methods> nah linear ways have wipers on the bearing blocks
[15:27:43] <_methods> and you shield the ways
[15:27:56] <_methods> or try to place them so they collect as little swarf/slag as possible
[15:28:09] <Vertices> hm, my guy has a Bridgeport with a digital indexer and glass levels
[15:28:13] <mozmck> I've seen plasma tables with flat plate and bearing riding on top - not my ideal setup but it works.
[15:28:17] <Vertices> so maybe he can make his own rack?
[15:28:35] <mozmck> http://www.precisionplasmallc.com/
[15:28:36] <_methods> yeah i used to run an old burny aviator that was just driven on one side
[15:28:39] <Vertices> ill have to ask
[15:28:47] <_methods> with bearing riding on top of flat plate lol
[15:28:50] <Vertices> hah shit he might cast his own rack LOL
[15:29:50] <mozmck> I wonder how well the wipers work, and especially how long they last with the plasma grit? The grit is going to stick worse with the grease as well...
[15:30:59] <_methods> white lithium on the bearing packs usually but it depends on the bearings
[15:31:45] <mozmck> yes, which will attract that plasma grit like buzzards to roadkill
[15:32:32] <Rab> Nice imagery. Can't you help control grit by building a shroud around the torch? Or does it just get everywhere?
[15:32:56] <_methods> it just goes everywhere lol plasmas are nasty
[15:33:03] <mozmck> The two normal options are a water table, and downdraft
[15:33:13] <mozmck> the water helps a *lot*
[15:33:16] <_methods> yeah under water is ideal
[15:33:26] <mozmck> I hear the downdraft works great.
[15:33:37] <PetefromTn_> http://www.mechmate.com/Forum/messages/11/3790.html
[15:33:51] <mozmck> water goes everywhere if the water is close to the metal (or over it).
[15:34:03] <mozmck> so everything rusts way faster :)
[15:34:04] <_methods> haha brilliant
[15:34:44] <Vertices> mozmck thanks, the precision plasma link is great
[15:35:05] <mozmck> They make a really good kits overall.
[15:35:16] <mozmck> better than my english even!
[15:35:20] <Vertices> the axes look sealed
[15:35:59] <mozmck> the rack is upside down under the flat plate, and stays pretty clean
[15:36:19] <mozmck> we have use a couple of their kits and are pleased with them
[15:36:19] <Vertices> nice
[15:36:55] <mozmck> If I build a plasma table for myself I'm hoping to set up a down-draft table.
[15:37:25] <mozmck> big blower outside pulling air down through the table, and suck most of the grit out.
[15:40:43] <Vertices> this is great, you all are very helpful professionals, thanks a million. I found the CAD for the precision plasma stuff
[15:43:01] <_methods> yeah they even give out their prints so that's nice
[15:43:19] <_methods> cut list and everything lol
[15:43:24] <_methods> http://www.chacich.com/info/hdiy/prints/HDIY%20MATERIALS%20LIST.pdf
[15:46:27] <Vertices> interesting. i dont know the diff betw a hand-held or machine torch, but prints say "support tubes for bed can be up to 2" lower if machine torch is used"
[15:46:33] <Vertices> and my guy has one
[15:47:27] <Vertices> heh I clicked "adding reliability to a CNC gantry" link
[15:47:31] <Vertices> loctit ad ;p
[15:47:33] <mozmck> a machine torch costs a little more ($300 I think), but is worth it.
[15:48:41] <mozmck> the hand torch has to be modified to allow the cnc to fire it.
[15:50:04] <Vertices> yeah no hand torches in my project
[15:51:35] <Vertices> someone mentioned a fully powered and paralleled system earlier. I need to research that part, from toolpathed CAM file --> motor
[15:52:25] <Vertices> I guess that can be achieved with a computer and a power relay, possibly with a microcontroller in between, then out to motor controller(s), then the motors?
[15:52:54] <Vertices> or are the controllers relays
[15:52:57] <mozmck> what does "fully powered and paralleled" mean?
[15:53:08] <Vertices> not driving my motors off a microcontroller
[15:53:16] <Vertices> i assumed
[15:53:31] <Vertices> <FinboySlick> Vertices: You probably want real drivers and a parallel interface.
[15:53:43] <Vertices> I had wrong terms, sorry
[15:54:01] <mozmck> ah, he's talking about motor drivers and a parallel port interface to the computer.
[15:54:09] <FinboySlick> Yeah.
[15:54:36] <mozmck> real drivers are nice - hand crank gets tiring.
[15:54:42] <FinboySlick> I don't see any point in using an arduino if you're looking to use linuxcnc.
[15:55:22] <Vertices> I happen to have ten steppers @ 3.5V 1.5A, 1.8deg/step, not NEMA marked
[15:55:30] <Vertices> Sanyo Denki
[15:56:16] <Vertices> im not sure what Im doing. I come to this project with a desire to do something robust, and prior experience wiggling steppers with duinos
[15:56:18] <mozmck> how much torque are they capable of?
[15:56:42] <Vertices> brb hunting datasheet
[15:56:55] <mozmck> you probably need much more torque than you might think.
[15:57:38] <Vertices> yeah I'd build probably in the 80-105 pound range, I bet... dead load of gantry that is
[15:57:49] <CaptHindsight> PetefromTn_: nice lathe, was it dead?
[15:57:58] <Vertices> I keep telling my pal he should size it for holding routers later, he says no
[15:58:05] <mozmck> that's a good weight range.
[15:58:17] <PetefromTn_> well....basically everything LOL
[15:58:17] <Vertices> I can do all aluminum
[15:58:23] <Vertices> we have a ton of well-machined stock
[15:58:26] <PetefromTn_> I got it gutted of electronics
[15:58:40] <Vertices> I could use Vrail just for structural members, not for the drive rail
[15:58:43] <PetefromTn_> which is actually the way I prefer it because I did the same thing to the Cincinatti.
[15:58:47] <Vertices> we got a ton of that shit laying around
[15:58:56] <PetefromTn_> so I am having to build the whole electronics package
[15:59:20] <mozmck> we use dual 620 oz/in steppers for a 100 lb gantry on the Y (moving the gantry)
[15:59:31] <PetefromTn_> getting new motors and drives, the spindle motor, the spindle drive, build the complete PC, basically everything.
[15:59:58] <Vertices> mozmck do you design them? ie do you know your safety factor or overpower factor or w/e?
[16:00:05] <mozmck> for plasma you need good acceleration.
[16:00:24] <Vertices> are those gecko motors decent?
[16:00:34] <Vertices> geckodrive
[16:01:01] <mozmck> no, I just know some rough numbers. I work for CandCNC, and we sell electronics packages for plasma: http://www.candcnc.net/index.php/plug-n-run/dthc-for-plasma-cutters
[16:01:15] <Vertices> oh wow, great
[16:01:27] <mozmck> We use gecko drives exclusively, and they are very good.
[16:02:06] <mozmck> That page will give you an idea of the motor sizes we recommend for various setups.
[16:02:06] <Vertices> so if I wanted to suggest this to my client/pal, I'd recommed the 125 lb I presume
[16:02:14] <Vertices> thanks kindly
[16:02:52] <mozmck> If your gantry is in the 80-105 lb range you would be fine with the 100lb stepper setup, which is 620 oz/in motors.
[16:03:28] <Vertices> great
[16:03:36] <Vertices> i'll def show him your company
[16:04:06] <mozmck> But if y'all were interested in buying from us, you can call and my boss deals with sizing and all a lot, and can help a lot more than I.
[16:04:53] <PetefromTn_> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6mFE9mMBHsQ pretty cool...
[16:05:54] <Vertices> nice
[16:06:19] <Vertices> lightweight, but loses table width. possibly decent tradeoff, esp if you want portability
[16:06:45] <PetefromTn_> ?
[16:07:44] <PetefromTn_> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=afiYwoe2LnM It's a ride!!
[16:12:01] <tjb1> Jerk is the speed motion drops to when performing direction change correct?
[16:12:41] <cradek> no, it's the derivative of acceleration
[16:15:25] <tjb1> jerk determines time alotted to reach peak acceleration?
[16:19:37] <Vertices> no, there is static, them first deriv is motion (velocity), second is acceleration, third is jerk
[16:19:42] <Vertices> there's a fourth
[16:19:44] <Vertices> jounce
[16:19:48] <Vertices> iirc
[16:19:58] <Vertices> so jerk is the rate of acceleration change.
[16:20:06] <cradek> there's any number of derivatives
[16:20:23] <Vertices> there's an upper bound in this case, physically.
[16:20:24] <cradek> linuxcnc constrains velocity and acceleration to configurable amounts
[16:20:45] <Vertices> http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/5/5e/Schematic_diagram_of_Jerk,_Acceleration,_and_Speed.png
[16:20:54] <cradek> as you take more derivatives they become less important, and harder to constrain, very quickly
[16:21:32] <cradek> that picture isn't what linuxcnc does
[16:22:23] <Vertices> oh sorry i didnt realize they had a particular definition
[16:23:35] <tjb1> Vertices: That's the picture I was looking at
[16:23:50] <tjb1> looks like jerk is setting the time to reach peak acceleration unless max speed is too low
[16:24:58] <malcom2073> tjb1: jerk is the speed of change of acceleration
[16:25:11] <malcom2073> When jerk is 0, acceleration is constant
[16:25:35] <tjb1> limited by motor correct?
[16:25:45] <malcom2073> Depends on the system
[16:25:52] <Deejay> gn8
[16:25:58] <cradek> what are you trying to do?
[16:25:59] <malcom2073> "Jerk is the speed motion drops to when performing direction change correct?" <- you've been reading marlin :)
[16:26:11] <cradek> linuxcnc doesn't constrain jerk, so this is moot if you're configuring linuxcnc
[16:26:42] <tjb1> Not to do with linuxcnc but I knew the question was best asked here
[16:26:52] <tjb1> malcom2073: likely
[16:26:53] <cradek> aha
[16:27:07] <tjb1> just never had a good understand of it
[16:27:08] <malcom2073> marlin relies on instant velocity changes (infinite acceleration), and defines the maximum speed at which it attempts that, as "jerk". The usage of the term is misleading
[16:27:28] <malcom2073> s/misleading/wrong :P
[16:27:32] <cradek> yeah that just sounds wrong
[16:27:50] <malcom2073> But, that is really not a conversation for here, unless you which to incur the ridicule of people :)
[16:28:06] <cradek> I don't even know what marlin is
[16:28:18] <malcom2073> cradek: reprap stuff
[16:28:27] <cradek> I could google marlin, but then again they could google derivative :-)
[16:28:42] <tjb1> ah malcom2073 is in reprap too
[16:28:51] <malcom2073> shhhh
[16:28:52] <alex_joni> A marlin is a fish from the family Istiophoridae. It has an elongated body, a spear-like snout or bill, and a long, rigid dorsal fin which extends forward to form a crest.
[16:29:33] <LeelooMinai> Lies, Merlin is a wizard
[16:29:40] <tjb1> merlin is a hotend :P
[16:30:11] <cradek> merlin is a toy that 80s kids had
[16:30:37] <LeelooMinai> I think that's also the name of British plane engines from WWII
[16:30:52] <_methods> yay magic
[16:30:59] <LeelooMinai> But I guess the took that from the wizard:)
[16:31:03] <LeelooMinai> tthey*
[16:31:05] <roycroft> merlin was a crappy pbx from at&t
[16:31:09] <tjb1> malcom2073: what one do you have?
[16:31:17] <malcom2073> tjb1: printer? I built my own
[16:31:32] <tjb1> pictures?
[16:31:41] <cradek> haha https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AY8K9s8tRpE
[16:32:05] <_methods> oh man i had that thing
[16:32:07] <_methods> so annoying
[16:32:13] <malcom2073> tjb1: https://scontent-b-iad.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xfa1/v/t1.0-9/10453332_892119567469092_3066870051940688719_n.jpg?oh=77d61ab6d1a89cb646d9ae534b93f045&oe=556B3EEF
[16:32:15] <_methods> totally forgot about that thing
[16:32:33] <_methods> it was like a more annoying simon
[16:32:54] <tjb1> malcom2073: pretty heavy duty
[16:33:23] <malcom2073> tjb1: Yep, weighs about 60-70lbs
[16:48:53] <Tom_itx> what's the best way to check for a spindle index pulse?
[16:51:12] <Jymmm> EKG machine
[16:51:12] <Tom_itx> i suppose halscope would show it if i used it as a trigger
[16:51:55] <Tom_itx> i suppose my LA or scope would too
[16:52:02] <PetefromTn_> hal watch?
[16:52:18] <Tom_itx> i just wonder if watch is too slow to catch it
[16:52:32] <PetefromTn_> spin it slow or by hand
[16:52:41] <Tom_itx> it's just gonna be a quick blip on the radar
[16:54:44] <Tom_itx> i added pullups to all 3 and A & B work but i haven't noticed I yet. just wondering if i need further signal conditioning before it gets to the control
[16:59:08] <Tom_itx> i could set index-enable on and watch the count
[16:59:17] <Tom_itx> it resets each rev if it's on
[17:10:10] <andypugh> A Marlin is a fish. A Merlin is a bird. You would need significantly bigger steppers to accelerate a Marlin than a Merlin.
[17:13:17] <_methods> hehe
[17:13:40] <roycroft> i'm not sure it would be safe to accelerate a marlin
[17:13:46] <Jymmm> unless it's a flying fish!
[17:13:51] <roycroft> they have rather pointy snouts that could be lethal
[17:14:01] <_methods> i've seen that on youtube
[17:14:30] <_methods> npm ls
[17:14:32] <_methods> oops
[17:15:26] <roycroft> i'm going to get some yeast today
[17:15:34] <roycroft> and this week i'll smack it on wendesday night
[17:15:44] <andypugh> I saw the nose of a Saw-fish once. In the North Pacific, where they don’t live. I suppose it _could_ have been a dolphin playing a trick on me with a hedge-trimmer.
[17:15:51] <roycroft> ack, mischan
[17:16:45] <roycroft> we just have nice, friendly fish up here
[17:16:51] <roycroft> no sawfish or other meanies
[17:17:22] <Jymmm> It's the AK47fish you gotta watch out for.
[17:17:48] <roycroft> orcas can be pretty aggressive, but not towards humans
[17:17:59] <roycroft> they're not fish though, so they don't count
[17:18:31] <_methods> which muppet was that that was always throwin fish
[17:18:50] <LeelooMinai> The Bear?
[17:18:57] <_methods> http://muppet.wikia.com/wiki/Lew_Zealand
[17:19:12] <Jymmm> OT: Is there a thermally conductive adhesive much like silicone?
[17:19:31] <andypugh> Hmm, Wiki says that saw-sharks live in the Pacific, but they are bottom-feeders and the one I saw was in about 2000m of water.
[17:19:31] <LeelooMinai> lol, I thought it was the Fuzzy Bear:)
[17:19:46] <Jymmm> Fuzzy Wuzzy was a bear....
[17:20:08] <_methods> good ole fozzy
[17:20:37] <_methods> http://www.omega.com/pptst/OB_BOND_CHEM_SET.html
[17:21:13] <roycroft> how did you get that deep?
[17:21:25] <roycroft> certainly not by holding your breath
[17:22:03] <_methods> http://mid-mountain.com/thermoseal-thermal-cements/
[17:22:05] <Jymmm> _methods: thanks, damn it's not common (locally)
[17:23:14] <_methods> i think arctic silver makes a 2 part epoxy
[17:23:19] <_methods> that may be more common
[17:23:42] <_methods> not sure what your application is though so i have no idea if that will work for you
[17:24:28] <_methods> jb weld make a high heat epoxy too
[17:25:03] <Jymmm> _methods: MUST be thermally conductive. I need to attach a high wattage LED to a heatsink
[17:25:16] <Jymmm> no way to mechaincally attach it.
[17:25:35] <renesis> thermal adhesive!
[17:25:41] <renesis> $$$!
[17:25:59] <renesis> also fuck arctic silver, shit is conductive
[17:26:13] <_methods> not regular arctic silver
[17:26:21] <_methods> it's an arctic silver epoxy
[17:26:23] <_methods> 2 part
[17:26:27] <_methods> i'm sure it's shit though
[17:26:53] <renesis> well get the loctite or 3m stuff
[17:27:05] <Jymmm> link?
[17:27:14] <renesis> hmm sec
[17:27:20] <_methods> yeah i'd trust 3m or loctite before arctic silver lol
[17:27:41] <renesis> http://solutions.3m.com/wps/portal/3M/en_US/Electronics_NA/Electronics/Products/Product_Catalog/~?N=7234484&rt=c3
[17:27:47] <_methods> i just had no idea what he was doing so i was spitballin
[17:27:54] <renesis> used it couple times for work
[17:28:22] <_methods> oh yeah that's nice
[17:28:47] <Jymmm> thanks
[17:29:11] <_methods> oh damn that sticker price
[17:29:12] <_methods> lol
[17:29:27] <renesis> yeah this says it has aluminum, shrug
[17:29:56] <renesis> ha its $1/ml
[17:29:59] <_methods> yeah
[17:30:02] <_methods> high dollar
[17:30:03] <renesis> at mouser
[17:30:08] <_methods> $80 for a syringe
[17:30:34] <_methods> on amazon for the tc-2707
[17:30:45] <Jymmm> HOLY FLYING COWS BATMAN!!!
[17:30:47] <renesis> http://www.mouser.com/ProductDetail/3M-Electronic-Specialty/TC-2707-37ML/?qs=suIBlYRJocvklm8boqfMNQ%3D%3D
[17:30:48] <Jymmm> screw that
[17:31:03] <renesis> amazon link?
[17:31:07] <renesis> yeah its $$$
[17:31:26] <_methods> http://www.amazon.com/3M-TC-2707-ADHESIVE-CONDUCTIVE-SYRINGE/dp/B00DK297SG/ref=sr_1_1
[17:31:27] <renesis> its usually an OHSHIT WE GOTTA SHIP NOW type of solution
[17:31:51] <renesis> holy fuck, 2x the mouser price
[17:32:08] <_methods> wow mouser is cheaper than someone
[17:32:10] <renesis> jymmm: they make sticky pads too, i think
[17:32:13] <_methods> never thought i'd see that day lol
[17:32:20] <renesis> yeah how often does that happen?
[17:32:48] <renesis> actually, they suck at ic and odd discretes, but theyre okay for passives!
[17:34:07] <_methods> hehe
[17:34:35] <renesis> my guess is arctic silver would actually be more $$$/ml, but youll find it in a tiny syringe so costs way less
[17:34:51] <renesis> like $10 for 5ml
[17:35:49] <renesis> this stuff comes in 2 part syringe for mixing tips, i think that alone is worth it
[17:36:07] <renesis> but i guess not if you just need one squirt, leave more in the mixing nozzle than you use
[17:36:32] <andypugh> roycroft: I was bobbing about on the surface. So was he. But as a bottom-feeder why would he have made the trip?
[17:36:44] <Jymmm> I need to adher a 1/2" x 7" strip to a heatsink
[17:36:56] <renesis> http://www.amazon.com/LOCTITE-Hysol-E-60HP-Toughened-60-Min/dp/B00R29PWLO/
[17:37:03] <renesis> i <3 this stuff
[17:37:49] <renesis> jymmm: can you clip them?
[17:37:55] <Vertices> LOL renesis I mildly complained earlier about clicking a link that said "how to improve CNC machine accuracy" and it was basically a 1 page Loctite whitepaper ad
[17:37:56] <Jymmm> no
[17:38:21] <renesis> yeah then your choices are epoxy and tape, i guess
[17:38:25] <Vertices> renesis is old school irc guy eh?
[17:38:32] <Vertices> Were you in #html in the 1990s?
[17:38:48] <renesis> no i didnt have a computer in the 90s
[17:38:52] <renesis> i had a snes
[17:38:57] <renesis> and drugs
[17:39:31] <renesis> ive been on efnet since maybe 2003
[17:40:22] <renesis> and i got plenty of firm warnings from lilo when he should have k-lined me
[17:40:28] <renesis> that prob dates me
[17:40:41] <andypugh> <old codger> I remember getting an email at work about this new thing that had just been invented called the “World Wide Web”. I was pretty sure it wouldn’t amount to anything.
[17:40:56] <Jymmm> This is what I'm attaching to a heatsink... http://www.dxsoul.com/product/diy-20w-6500k-2100lm-white-light-cob-led-module-12-14v-170-x-15mm-901199875
[17:41:12] <renesis> remember when it was called the information superhighway?
[17:42:25] <Vertices> lilo :(
[17:42:40] <Vertices> but +1 for drugs in the 90s
[17:42:47] <Jymmm> do you think I could mix alumiseal in with silicone?
[17:42:53] <Jymmm> and tit work?
[17:42:57] <Jymmm> it*
[17:42:58] <Vertices> SUPERHIGH
[17:43:02] <Vertices> "way"
[17:43:15] <renesis> jymmm: not well
[17:43:24] <renesis> compared to normal thermal interfaces
[17:43:37] <Vertices> renesis I idle in one of your sparse chans on efnet
[17:43:46] <renesis> even the thermal adhesives stuff is pretty poor compared to normal grease and mylar
[17:43:56] <Jymmm> Well, I have NFC how else to adhere it securely
[17:44:10] <renesis> haha how sparse?
[17:44:12] <Jymmm> It's $4, I'm not gonna spend a lot on it
[17:44:37] <renesis> my sparses was taken but a botnet because of some drama involving two people i dont really know
[17:45:08] <renesis> but i guess they fell off or chanfix decided he liked me more
[17:45:39] <Vertices> av
[17:45:54] <renesis> oh
[17:46:16] <renesis> yeah whats her name got me to join there, nyts pretty cool
[17:46:18] <Vertices> i just feel like ive seen you everywhere
[17:46:31] <renesis> hes got a lot of science for someone doing this for hobby
[17:46:38] <Vertices> fo sho
[17:46:43] <renesis> isabella or whatever
[17:46:48] <Vertices> meanwhile I have this huge studio room and a moog sub37
[17:46:52] <Vertices> and I'm chatting instead :D
[17:47:00] <renesis> oh neat
[17:47:05] <Vertices> jk, im working on a machine
[17:47:07] <renesis> my friend just got a job at moog!
[17:47:13] <Vertices> in Aville?
[17:47:33] <Vertices> im not far, been to moogfest
[17:47:37] <renesis> i think so but he says hes gonna be in the valley first half of this year
[17:47:43] <renesis> i think they have an office here
[17:48:00] <renesis> north LA valley, not bay area valley
[17:48:33] <Vertices> ya
[17:48:39] <Vertices> Encino's like, so bitchen.
[17:48:46] <Vertices> there's the Mall, and the Gallerina
[17:49:00] <Vertices> </Zappa>
[17:49:06] <renesis> yeah really im only on ventura bl for weed shops
[17:49:16] <renesis> and most the ones there closed down
[17:49:37] <Vertices> hahah
[17:49:43] <renesis> topanga and chatsworth are awesome places, tho
[17:49:46] <Vertices> LA is so strange
[17:49:58] <renesis> yeah if i wasnt from there im not sure what id make of it
[17:50:03] <_methods> i can't believe colorado and washington beat cali and oregon to legalizing weed
[17:50:09] <Vertices> I liked Pasadena because the backlots full of small shops that make shit for film n tv
[17:50:19] <renesis> all the things i <3 about it a lot of people dont know about, dont go to
[17:50:29] <renesis> ha, yeah i dont go there enough
[17:50:29] <Vertices> and because despite that, it had lush suburbs and tiptop mexi food
[17:50:46] <Vertices> ppl with avocado trees in their backyards that shold be ina magazine
[17:50:46] <renesis> suburbs is what LA is
[17:50:52] <renesis> bit of everything
[17:50:56] <Vertices> 6' saguaro growing out front, jungle in back
[17:51:10] <Vertices> mellow neighbors who ask for a hit if they smell pot
[17:51:15] <Vertices> instead of calling the cops
[17:51:24] <renesis> _methods: cali has been pretty much legal since early 2000s
[17:51:24] <Vertices> decent carpenters I met there. Decent as in human
[17:51:47] <Vertices> sorry im in east coast
[17:51:49] <renesis> _methods: ive been buying weed in retail store fronts since maybe like 2006
[17:51:56] <Vertices> we like to pretend our grind makes us cooler than you
[17:52:00] <Vertices> but really, the west is best
[17:52:08] <renesis> pacific ring of fire, yo
[17:52:11] <renesis> end of the world
[17:52:29] <renesis> everyone who was like fuck every place else ends up here
[17:52:42] <Vertices> chicks out west... 10/10 guys agree with me, are way less fucked up and psychotic in the Victorian prude/mindgame way... they're more likely to just be la-la wastoids
[17:53:11] <Vertices> you can get laid with a land full of la-la wastoids way easier than a land full of schizoid, aggro cunts
[17:53:14] <Vertices> is what I'm saying :D
[17:53:30] <andypugh> Human carpenters as oppsed to Carpenter ants or Carpenter birds (or http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carpenter_fish )
[17:54:06] <Vertices> wow thats cool andypugh
[18:14:12] <malcom2073> I'm a carpenter
[18:14:15] <malcom2073> (that's my name)
[19:02:38] <_methods> what's the best solder paste out there?
[19:03:06] <_methods> i got a bunch of smt soldering to do and i was thinking about maybe makin my life easier with some solder paste
[19:03:38] <Tom_itx> _methods i get mine from DX
[19:03:43] <Tom_itx> cheap
[19:04:20] <Jymmm> _methods: and Tom_itx pays for custom stencils, so not a complete cheap bastard =)
[19:04:53] <_methods> http://www.amazon.com/MG-Chemicals-4860P-35G-Solder-Paste/dp/B00M1RC0YY/ref=sr_1_1
[19:04:58] <_methods> i was lookin at that
[19:05:29] <Jymmm> _methods: Tom_itx was tlaking about http://www.dx.com/s/solder+paste
[19:06:13] <Tom_itx> http://www.dx.com/s/lodestar+solder+paste
[19:06:33] <_methods> ah you got stencils
[19:06:37] <Tom_itx> they used to have those 3/ less
[19:06:41] <_methods> i won't have that so i need a needle
[19:06:43] <Tom_itx> oh hell yeah
[19:07:03] <Tom_itx> druggie
[19:07:10] <_methods> or some sort of dispensing system lol
[19:07:25] * _methods shoots solder paste
[19:07:40] <_methods> slap slap
[19:08:28] <_methods> i've never used DX before i always just go straight to aliexpress or alibaba
[19:08:32] * Jymmm slaps the needle of of _methods vein http://www.dx.com/p/klt-982a-solder-paste-glue-dropper-liquid-auto-dispenser-controller-black-230312
[19:08:46] <Jymmm> out of*
[19:09:29] <_methods> hahah that's super overkill for what i got goin on
[19:09:36] <_methods> i'm building a custom keyboard
[19:09:51] <_methods> but i gotta put on like 100+ smt resistors and leds
[19:09:58] <Jymmm> well, make up your damn mind already! lol
[19:10:32] <_methods> that is a cool disp kit though
[19:11:07] <Jymmm> lots on ebay/amazon
[19:11:12] <_methods> http://www.dx.com/p/glasses-type-20x-magnifier-with-white-led-light-2-x-cr1620-116296#.VMbg163N_UI
[19:11:15] <_methods> hahaha
[19:11:18] <_methods> i gotta get those
[19:11:43] <_methods> i don't even care if they work
[19:12:05] <malcom2073> Haha that's awesome
[19:12:06] <Tom_L> get a binocular scope instead
[19:12:13] <_methods> i'm just gonna walk around the house in speedos, a light coat of oil and those glasses
[19:12:14] <malcom2073> Tom_L: is it as cool looking?
[19:12:22] <Tom_L> 20x is too much really
[19:12:32] <Tom_L> unless it's zoom
[19:13:01] <Tom_L> i use my 7 x 45 zoom mostly in the 7ish range
[19:13:31] <_methods> what kind do you have Tom_L
[19:13:38] <Tom_L> amscope
[19:13:47] <_methods> how much was that?
[19:13:49] <_methods> $700?
[19:13:56] <Tom_L> 3 ish
[19:13:59] <_methods> hmmmm
[19:14:17] <_methods> you get it on ebay?
[19:15:07] <Tom_L> yeah
[19:15:29] <Tom_L> http://www.amscope.com/7x-45x-stereo-zoom-microscope-with-single-arm-boom-stand.html
[19:15:49] <Tom_L> you get free shipping off ebay
[19:16:05] <unfy> at $7, those .... glasses... are :D
[19:16:40] <_methods> yeah i've been eyeing one of those
[19:16:46] <_methods> it's on my wishlist
[19:16:55] <_methods> with oscope
[19:17:15] <unfy> how much you looking to spend on a scope ?
[19:19:03] <_methods> $4-500 i guess
[19:19:12] <_methods> i was looking at one of those 1054z's
[19:19:13] <unfy> rigol 1054z ftw
[19:19:16] <_methods> yeah
[19:19:37] <Tom_L> http://tom-itx.no-ip.biz:81/~webpage/scope/scope1.jpg
[19:19:41] <Tom_L> gives you plenty of room to work
[19:19:43] <unfy> i put $350 at a siglent 1102cml - and i have only two complaints there abouts.
[19:19:58] <_methods> yeah tthat's perfect
[19:20:06] <_methods> i think i'll get one of those before the oscope
[19:20:15] <_methods> i use the goggles way more
[19:20:59] <unfy> with a decent dmm - for cnc work and stuff, i'd say the magnifier stuff is prolly more important
[19:21:59] <_methods> yeah i think it would be better for me to get first
[19:22:40] <_methods> oscope i only need occasionally but magnification i seem to need increasingly frequently for some reason
[19:22:44] <Tom_L> http://www.ebay.com/itm/AmScope-SM-3B-7X-45X-Stereo-Zoom-Microscope-with-Single-Arm-Boom-Stand-/140927274133?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item20cfeb8c95
[19:23:08] <unfy> i will say - as someone who does own pcb's and been doing embedded computer stuff... a 'real' oscope is so very handy.
[19:23:26] <Tom_L> that and a LA
[19:23:36] <Tom_L> i like those saleae ones
[19:23:49] <_methods> i made a knock off salaed
[19:23:54] <_methods> for $6 lol
[19:24:02] <_methods> salaea even
[19:24:13] <LeelooMinai> Or even Saleae
[19:24:23] <_methods> that too
[19:24:43] <LeelooMinai> CLones are for sub $8 on ali:)
[19:24:59] <_methods> yeah i had to find a eeprom for it though
[19:25:12] <_methods> i had one that worked on an old stick of ram heheh
[19:25:13] <unfy> i tend to not use a LA and prefer looking at schematics / continuity testing and the code. but i did pick up a chinese knock off of the saleae to see what i think. if i end up using it for more than 8 hours, i'll buy a real saleae
[19:25:43] <_methods> i only use it to mess around never had to do any real work with it
[19:26:23] <Tom_L> i got a saleae for a project that paid for it almost right away
[19:26:28] <LeelooMinai> _methods: Hmm, I think they blocked some non-Atmel eeproms in new software or something liek that - are you refering to that?
[19:26:33] <andypugh> I just remebered, I subscribed to a Kickstarter osciloscope watch and it’s now very late
[19:26:35] <_methods> yeah
[19:26:54] <_methods> they added a eeprom check to the software or something
[19:26:56] <unfy> i've built a couple hacky LA's here at work only because... well... lets not go there. but they were built for diagnosing existing stuff etc, not my own code :D
[19:26:57] <LeelooMinai> _methods: I have clones with non-Atmel ones... maybe I should mod them...
[19:27:15] <_methods> mine are cypress
[19:27:21] <LeelooMinai> In the meantime I got dslogic - it has pretty nice specs
[19:27:33] <unfy> methods: the saleae and usbee both check the eeprom and stuff yeah. there's also "speed of the eeprom" related stuff for things etc
[19:27:38] <_methods> yeah
[19:27:38] <LeelooMinai> Much better value than Saleae
[19:27:51] <_methods> tht's what i did i swapped out the eeprom with anothner and flashed it
[19:27:59] <_methods> a matching eeprom
[19:28:18] <LeelooMinai> _methods: You did that for 8 or 16 version?
[19:28:35] <LeelooMinai> I mean 8 or 16 channels*
[19:28:42] <_methods> http://www.ebay.com/itm/AmScope-SM-3B-7X-45X-Stereo-Zoom-Microscope-with-Single-Arm-Boom-Stand-/140927274133
[19:28:45] <_methods> oops
[19:28:54] <_methods> http://sunbizhosting.co.uk/~spiral/blog/?p=117
[19:29:02] <LeelooMinai> I have a microscope that looks almost identical - got it from Chine once for $350
[19:29:05] <_methods> eeprom swap
[19:29:10] <LeelooMinai> $250 even
[19:29:29] <_methods> i did that for the 8 channel version
[19:30:06] <_methods> the 16 channel clone is still too expensive for me lol
[19:30:07] <LeelooMinai> I guess I should add that eeprom to my Mouser project basket:)
[19:30:09] <_methods> it's like $30
[19:30:47] <_methods> i just searched my junkpile and found one
[19:30:49] <LeelooMinai> Right, still fraction of the price of the original
[19:31:02] <_methods> i found a working eeprom on an old stick of ram
[19:31:33] <LeelooMinai> The stick was probably worth more than LA:p
[19:31:42] <_methods> at one time
[19:32:18] <_methods> came out of an old dell poweredge 1950
[19:33:12] <LeelooMinai> Some people still buy such old ram - for ancient boxes for strange things like CNC. O, wait...
[19:33:26] <_methods> why do you think i had it lol
[19:33:30] <Jymmm> Alright, this PS module is pretty fucking slick!!!
[19:33:44] <_methods> for your led?
[19:33:53] <Jymmm> No, for whatever
[19:34:06] <_methods> oh your little dc-dc one?
[19:34:27] <Jymmm> Yeah http://www.dxsoul.com/product/b3603-dc-dc-constant-voltage-current-step-down-module-green-901247601
[19:35:05] <_methods> ahh cool current control too
[19:35:32] <Jymmm> I have it on a 5-15vdc supply. I "set" it to 10VDC o the module, and it read the actual input voltage and not just set one
[19:36:45] <Jymmm> so even if the source changes, you'll know
[19:38:39] <andypugh> Jymmm: My mill now uses a 2kW 24V supply (It was cheap) and a bunch of that sort of thing for other voltages.
[19:39:28] <Jymmm> andypugh: Cool, this ia digital variable cc/cv supply
[19:39:56] <unfy> i've been meaning to build my own adjustable bench power supply... just haven't done so yet. too many other projects
[19:40:14] <Jymmm> this is variable
[19:40:25] <unfy> as would any bench power supply be
[19:40:48] <Jymmm> nm
[19:41:32] <unfy> for the price, the little module is great (assuming it meets its specs), but i'm wanting something with knobs and stuff :D
[19:42:32] <Jymmm> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9YeFHQse-8o
[19:42:47] <unfy> yup, seen that :D
[19:43:49] <andypugh> Interesting… https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1489435074/hybridcnc-and-3d-printer-combo?ref=nav_search
[19:43:57] <unfy> i loved the woodwork. not too sure about the battery power though
[19:44:31] <andypugh> So, the kid got $1400 and didn’t have to suply anything. Family thing>
[19:44:34] <andypugh> ?
[19:46:51] <Jymmm> haha awesome... hit SET, turns output off. Hit OK turns output on, and since the inrush current is higher than I have it set for 1oomA, it starts in CC mode, then flips to CV automatically when levels off at 94mA.
[19:46:54] <_methods> exploding kittens or lame 3d printer
[19:46:59] <_methods> i love you kickstarter
[19:47:30] <unfy> andy: i can smell some fraud suits being filed ._.
[19:47:32] <_methods> and he's using lash nuts
[19:47:54] <_methods> and this miracle thing called acme rod
[19:48:13] <andypugh> He is only supplying (at the moment) a 3D model at $100 to 14 people.
[19:48:35] <_methods> make that 15 i'm gettin in now
[19:49:08] <andypugh> If he was to have a single $2500 backer for an actual machine then he might end up embarassed.
[19:49:37] <unfy> also: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4fpmh-Fbjvc&feature=youtu.be
[19:50:48] <andypugh> Are they using magnetic balls as joints? That seems inspired and I wish I had thought of it.
[19:52:48] <unfy> Magnetic ball joints for low friction no-lash movement
[19:52:58] <_methods> heheh
[19:53:03] <_methods> no lash
[19:53:17] <Vertices> air bearings nickuh
[19:53:46] <unfy> https://paulwanamaker.wordpress.com/2014/10/25/raptosaur-my-new-large-format-3-d-printer/
[19:54:05] <andypugh> _methods: You object to no-lash in this context? It seems to me that they definitively are
[19:55:18] <_methods> i hate lashing
[19:55:25] <_methods> i'm all in on the no lash train
[19:55:42] <unfy> i dont mind lashing, as long as there's a safe word j/k
[19:55:51] <_methods> hahah
[19:56:27] <andypugh> I just rembered that I don’t know where my bag of frictionless bearings is.
[19:56:50] <_methods> i stole them
[19:57:09] <_methods> they're in the bag with my bus tickets to hawaii
[19:58:00] <andypugh> No, really, they exist
[19:58:38] <andypugh> They used crossed leaf springs
[19:59:15] <_methods> not magnets?
[19:59:23] <andypugh> They are not zero-resistance, but they are zero-friction, so any change in force results in a change in position
[19:59:54] * LeelooMinai peeks to see who invented zero-friction bearings now
[20:00:04] <andypugh> The magnetic balls are frictional but zero-lash. Which is joly clever.
[20:01:24] <_methods> yeah i think the 3d printer crowd has been using them in those contraptions for awhile
[20:02:16] <_methods> those kossel/rostocks i think they call them
[20:02:21] <andypugh> LeelooMinai: http://flexpivots.com (they even say “frictionless” on the home page
[20:03:05] <andypugh> A friend uses them on the seismometers he makes.
[20:03:39] <andypugh> (I wonder if he knows that they found the one he bult for Beagle2 ?
[20:03:57] <andypugh> Well, they found Beagle2 anyway :-)
[20:04:44] <unfy> see, the joint gave out, causing it to bounce real hard and crimp the antenna wire. he should be ashamed XD
[20:04:56] <andypugh> Those on a Hooke’s joint might be worth looking at
[20:05:45] <zeeshan|2> Tom_itx: shipped
[20:05:51] <zeeshan|2> CaptHindsight: thank you , got notification
[20:05:52] <LeelooMinai> There are no frictionless bearings...
[20:06:02] <zeeshan|2> yes there are!
[20:06:20] <unfy> my ex gf's legs ?
[20:06:31] <malcom2073> heyooohhh
[20:06:35] <_methods> hahahah
[20:06:36] <_methods> bazinga
[20:07:25] <andypugh> LeelooMinai: No, there really is no friction in those pivots. There are other forces, but nothing that counts as friction.
[20:08:12] <LeelooMinai> There are losses and it's what matters, no? :)
[20:08:29] <andypugh> They act as nicely-packaged torsional springs, but are entirely elastic,
[20:10:06] <LeelooMinai> They look more like hinges to me
[20:10:22] <LeelooMinai> Can they even rotate any angle?
[20:11:03] <andypugh> They also work with no lubrication and potentially buried in diamond dust. I like them and present them as a solution to _some_ problems. I used them when I was building a 15W dynamometer for very small motors.
[20:12:24] <zeeshan|2> andypugh: when you did your pid for vfd
[20:12:24] <zeeshan|2> was it actually pid
[20:12:24] <zeeshan|2> was it dc injection
[20:13:08] <andypugh> Neither? Both? When did I do this?
[20:13:25] <zeeshan|2> :{
[20:14:13] <zeeshan|2> nm
[20:14:14] <zeeshan|2> i found the video
[20:14:20] <zeeshan|2> it was a pid loop
[20:14:40] <andypugh> ah, the lathe spindle? That was an experiment and was PID.
[20:15:13] <zeeshan|2> do you recall how precise it was? :)
[20:15:36] <andypugh> But it was very much the wrong sort of VFD and only a 50-tooth wheel. It was awful yet still surprisingly good ;-)
[20:15:53] <zeeshan|2> looks pretty good by eye!
[20:16:20] <andypugh> It didn’t follow small changes at all.
[20:16:41] <andypugh> Because the VFD refused to act on any command below 10Hz
[20:16:59] <andypugh> But it was a very ancient VFD.
[20:17:21] <zeeshan|2> yea depends on the drive
[20:17:29] <zeeshan|2> my old allen bradley one is completely garbage below 7Hz
[20:17:41] <zeeshan|2> but eaton sensorless vector can easily go down to 1hz
[20:17:53] <Tom_itx> zeeshan|2 thanks
[20:17:59] <zeeshan|2> np
[20:18:01] <andypugh> If and when I add spindle orient to the mill (with a flux-vector VFD and resolver feedback equivalent to 32k counts encoder) then I expect better results
[20:18:03] <zeeshan|2> it was like 8.90
[20:18:08] <zeeshan|2> 1.10 back
[20:18:09] <zeeshan|2> :D
[20:18:45] <Tom_itx> should have stuck it in a #0 envelope for $3
[20:18:49] <zeeshan|2> lol
[20:18:53] <zeeshan|2> it'd prolly break
[20:18:59] <zeeshan|2> i was thinking bubble wrap
[20:19:01] <zeeshan|2> but i ended up boxing it
[20:19:52] <zeeshan|2> andypugh: thats a lot of enconder counts
[20:20:16] <andypugh> Yes. I like Resolvers
[20:23:10] <XXCoder1> wow exploding kittens reached 100k supporters
[20:23:23] <_methods> indeed
[20:24:26] <andypugh> Actually, I am not correct. The 7i49 has 12 bits of absolute accuracy and 14 bits precision, so either 409s or 16k counts depending on how you count. But the fact it is analogue sort-of gives you an oversampling efffect.
[20:25:22] <zeeshan|2> speaking of sampling
[20:25:28] <zeeshan|2> is there a cheap pci card i can buy
[20:25:32] <XXCoder1> now second highest. THE highest is reading rainbow at 105,857
[20:25:45] <zeeshan|2> that will let me read load cells at like 6000 samples/sec
[20:25:54] <zeeshan|2> and it needs to amplify a 4mV/V signal
[20:26:00] <XXCoder1> if it keeps trucking (and theres plenty days left) kitten will be #1 soonish
[20:26:10] <zeeshan|2> at the same time, i need to monitor a temp sensor over rs232
[20:26:26] <zeeshan|2> all the stuff i see
[20:26:28] <zeeshan|2> is stupid expensive
[20:27:17] <zeeshan|2> http://www.adlinktech.com/PD/web/PD_detail.php?pid=751
[20:27:19] <zeeshan|2> basically that :D
[20:27:55] <zeeshan|2> im not paying 3800$ for that card
[20:27:56] <zeeshan|2> :P
[20:28:15] <XXCoder1> you got a cnc, engrave your own? ;)
[20:28:21] <XXCoder1> seriously dunno
[20:28:35] <andypugh> exploding kittens looks like at least as much fun as “Cards againt humanity” which sort-of failed to amuse me despite me winning by a factor fo 2 when I played it.
[20:29:45] <zeeshan|2> http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813132104&cm_re=j1800-_-13-132-104-_-Product
[20:29:57] <zeeshan|2> is this faster than an athlon xp 3200+ on a7v400-mx motherboard
[20:30:38] <XXCoder1> andypugh: dunno if it's fun or anything but sometimes I try to support webcomics I like lol
[20:30:45] <andypugh> zeeshan|2: Load cells are a Wheatstone bridge. You need an external amp (could be an op-amp but there are specialised high-stability devices) and then you need a decent A to D card.
[20:30:55] <XXCoder1> I don't always agree but I always like theoatmeat funny
[20:31:11] <zeeshan|2> andypugh: yes
[20:31:14] <zeeshan|2> i need a cheap solution
[20:31:16] <zeeshan|2> :(
[20:31:24] <zeeshan|2> the external amp also i think excites the sensor.
[20:31:28] <zeeshan|2> by passing 10V through it
[20:31:33] <andypugh> Yes
[20:31:52] <zeeshan|2> also this stuff is extremely noise sensitive
[20:32:01] <andypugh> You need a stable excitation or it all goes wrong
[20:32:01] <zeeshan|2> one article i was reading, they said the load cell is super accurate byitself
[20:32:09] <zeeshan|2> the limitation is the amplifier
[20:32:15] <andypugh> Yes,
[20:32:17] <zeeshan|2> it starts dumping noise
[20:32:37] <zeeshan|2> i just need something that isnt super crazy expensive :/
[20:32:38] <andypugh> I rather specilaised in load sensing for a few years
[20:32:57] <XXCoder1> I wonder if you can somehow split parts up and make em worktogether and cheaper
[20:33:00] <XXCoder1> doubt it tho
[20:33:29] <zeeshan|2> i have like 10000 budget
[20:33:45] <zeeshan|2> but the prof doesnt want me blowing it all on a daq.
[20:33:49] <zeeshan|2> which can easily happen
[20:34:11] <zeeshan|2> there must be a system that can do it for 500-1000
[20:34:13] <Tom_itx> so zeeshan|2, is your mill ready to cut parts now?
[20:34:21] <zeeshan|2> Tom_itx: did you see the video!
[20:34:25] <Tom_itx> no
[20:34:25] <zeeshan|2> or the marker test
[20:34:30] <zeeshan|2> *of
[20:34:53] <zeeshan|2> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x_pPEL5H2_s
[20:34:54] <zeeshan|2> :D
[20:35:20] <zeeshan|2> marker is held in by tape
[20:35:24] <andypugh> zeeshan|2: http://uk.rs-online.com/web/p/strain-gauge-accessories/0846171/ and a good National Instruments card
[20:35:25] <zeeshan|2> and noise is because there is no lube yet
[20:36:08] <Tom_itx> no noise here
[20:36:11] <Tom_itx> no sound :)
[20:36:14] <zeeshan|2> :)
[20:36:35] <zeeshan|2> andypugh: does something like that come already preassembled? :)
[20:37:05] <andypugh> Yes, you can buy complete amps
[20:37:21] <Tom_itx> zeeshan|2, i don't think i've ever run that program :)
[20:37:24] <XXCoder1> gonna love marker drawn
[20:37:41] <zeeshan|2> Tom_itx: its there for a reason!
[20:38:25] <andypugh> zeeshan|2: http://www.novatechloadcells.co.uk/ds/adw15.htm (only 10 samples per second, though)
[20:38:36] <andypugh> Fast costs more.
[20:38:47] <zeeshan|2> need 6000 min :(
[20:38:59] <zeeshan|2> samples are neded
[20:39:06] <XXCoder1> andypugh: can cheat with 2 or more of em with timing offsets? lol
[20:39:09] <zeeshan|2> otherwise it wont pick up the small differences
[20:39:32] <andypugh> Ah, this is a 6kHz one: http://www.novatechloadcells.co.uk/ds/sga.htm
[20:39:39] <XXCoder1> 100 samples per second is what zee needs
[20:40:45] <andypugh> Other suppliers exist, probably closer to you too. I just had quite a good relationship with Novatech when that was my game
[20:40:54] <zeeshan|2> $$?
[20:41:58] <zeeshan|2> hm
[20:42:02] <andypugh> The load cells were about £300. I never actually used their amps.
[20:42:05] <zeeshan|2> http://www.futek.com/resolutioncalc.aspx
[20:42:10] <XXCoder1> it does not state. probably means I cant afford it
[20:42:16] <zeeshan|2> if i use 5000lb, 4mV/V
[20:42:27] <zeeshan|2> and usb530, 10samples/s
[20:42:31] <zeeshan|2> it gives me 0.04lb res
[20:42:45] <zeeshan|2> but if i choose 7500samples/s i get .93lb
[20:42:47] <zeeshan|2> what!
[20:42:54] <andypugh> I would be surprised if the amps were more than £2000
[20:43:41] <zeeshan|2> i thought, the more samples/s
[20:43:43] <andypugh> Any A to D conversion gets more vague as the sample rate increases
[20:43:43] <zeeshan|2> the better the res
[20:44:08] <zeeshan|2> ah im confusing it
[20:44:26] <zeeshan|2> more samples/s means more data points
[20:44:30] <zeeshan|2> so if i do a fast strain rate test
[20:44:31] <zeeshan|2> i can capture it
[20:44:56] <zeeshan|2> so i guess its sollely the design of the A-D converter that determines res
[20:45:24] <zeeshan|2> and ofcourse the max capacity of the sensor.
[20:45:28] <andypugh> if I was you I would just get on the phone to Instron and talk round the problem.
[20:46:07] <zeeshan|2> andypugh: i will
[20:46:19] <zeeshan|2> we do have a bunch of amplifiers
[20:46:24] <zeeshan|2> but theyre scattered, and no specs
[20:46:28] <zeeshan|2> i think i will try to find more info.
[20:47:00] <zeeshan|2> i dont understand why i can't just simply take the amplfier out of one test frame
[20:47:17] <zeeshan|2> and its daq and just put it on my bigger test frame
[20:47:30] <andypugh> I am fairly sure you could
[20:48:02] <zeeshan|2> this stuff is all new to me.. so i'm trying to get educated about it
[20:48:07] <zeeshan|2> otherwise people take you for a fool
[20:48:10] <zeeshan|2> and tell you "it cant be done"
[20:48:10] <andypugh> Schenck make some nice stuff too.
[20:48:35] <andypugh> But Instron are the “daddies” of load cells
[20:49:43] <zeeshan|2> some of our test frames are instron
[20:49:44] <zeeshan|2> some are mts
[20:49:52] <zeeshan|2> have you heard of mts?
[20:50:05] <andypugh> yes, and Denison, and Avery :-)
[20:50:09] <zeeshan|2> hehe
[20:50:12] <zeeshan|2> i havent heard of those 2
[20:50:33] <zeeshan|2> https://www.flickr.com/photos/128539016@N05/16376478192/
[20:50:40] <zeeshan|2> https://www.flickr.com/photos/128539016@N05/15754934074/
[20:50:43] <zeeshan|2> im dealing with these load cells
[20:50:59] <zeeshan|2> sorry for upside down pic :)
[20:51:32] <andypugh> Load cells are load cells. Any fool can make them, and I have
[20:51:39] <unfy> all of the letters are gonna fall out
[20:52:47] <andypugh> You might not even need a load cell, sometimes you can just strain-gauge the machine frame
[20:52:48] <zeeshan|2> yea its just a wheatstone bridge
[20:53:07] <XXCoder1> LOL https://i.chzbgr.com/maxW500/5557993472/h07119915/
[20:53:08] <zeeshan|2> my dilema is this man
[20:53:14] <zeeshan|2> either buy a new load cells,
[20:53:26] <andypugh> The clever part is setting up 4 gauges so that you automatically compensate for temperature.
[20:53:27] <zeeshan|2> or get a more accurate daq.
[20:53:32] <zeeshan|2> yea
[20:53:45] <zeeshan|2> that is super important with my test
[20:53:53] <zeeshan|2> cause im going from 80C to 0C
[20:54:03] <zeeshan|2> and its a shape meory polymer
[20:54:15] <zeeshan|2> which changes phases at 30
[20:55:34] <zeeshan|2> andypugh: so basically all load cells have the same # of pins
[20:55:41] <andypugh> Sounds like fun. Do you chill the whole machine or just the sample?
[20:55:52] <zeeshan|2> it will be in an environmental chamber
[20:55:56] <zeeshan|2> which is pid
[20:55:59] <zeeshan|2> controlled
[20:56:05] <andypugh> Hmm
[20:56:28] <andypugh> Do you care about strain measurment too?
[20:56:34] <zeeshan|2> yes
[20:56:37] <zeeshan|2> i have aramis 3d
[20:56:39] <zeeshan|2> optical measurement
[20:56:47] <zeeshan|2> they'll be peaking through the glass window
[20:56:55] <andypugh> Your length sensing is going to be…..
[20:57:00] <andypugh> Ah, OK
[20:58:01] <andypugh> You can contact the maker of the existing cells.
[20:58:08] <andypugh> Ask for specs.
[20:58:21] <zeeshan|2> i found them online
[20:58:25] <zeeshan|2> im just a noob lol
[20:58:28] <zeeshan|2> i dont know what specs matter
[20:58:39] <zeeshan|2> freom my understanding, the most important one is mV/V number
[20:59:01] <andypugh> Or, more pragmatically, test samples of known temperature sensitivty, or none (get an Invar spring?) and calibrate
[20:59:39] <andypugh> mv/V/K for temperature sensitivity.
[21:00:00] <zeeshan|2> well; this one is outside the environmental chamber
[21:00:05] <zeeshan|2> hopefully itll be hanging out at ambient
[21:00:17] <andypugh> That makes it easier.
[21:00:30] <zeeshan|2> hey i have a q.
[21:00:33] <andypugh> Maybe give it a fan to be sure.
[21:00:34] <zeeshan|2> the excitation voltage
[21:00:41] <zeeshan|2> the more it is, the better the res?
[21:00:56] <zeeshan|2> cause this thing can handle 20vdc max
[21:01:00] <andypugh> Yes, untile the gauges get hot
[21:01:07] <zeeshan|2> but we're only using a 10V amp
[21:01:54] <zeeshan|2> the spec sheet says
[21:02:02] <zeeshan|2> "compensation range -10 to 45C"
[21:02:03] <andypugh> 10V to 20V probably isn’t a huge improvement
[21:02:21] <zeeshan|2> ah okay
[21:02:33] <zeeshan|2> my prob is my samples are going to prolly see a max force of 200lb.
[21:02:42] <zeeshan|2> but the load cell is 5k lb.
[21:02:57] <zeeshan|2> so resolution is a big deal
[21:03:02] <zeeshan|2> i can tolerate .25 lb res
[21:03:06] <andypugh> Get a more suitable gauge
[21:03:22] <zeeshan|2> you think ill get crap data?
[21:03:54] <zeeshan|2> they are hesistant to change gauges
[21:04:03] <zeeshan|2> because they're like itll cost 2000$ to get it calibrated
[21:04:03] <zeeshan|2> lol
[21:04:20] <andypugh> For the price of a 1kN gauge, you would be daft not to
[21:04:23] <zeeshan|2> i thought load cells come with calibration factors.......
[21:04:36] <zeeshan|2> andypugh: i dont have an idea for price
[21:04:42] <zeeshan|2> but what would it be roughly ball park wise?
[21:04:48] <zeeshan|2> these guys dont advertise it online at all
[21:04:56] <zeeshan|2> so its hard to get an idea of how much it costs
[21:05:04] <zeeshan|2> an = no
[21:05:12] <andypugh> Novatecj were selling me gauges complete with cal certificate for hundreds of £
[21:05:20] <zeeshan|2> ha.
[21:05:27] <zeeshan|2> so all you do is bolt in the new load cell
[21:05:31] <zeeshan|2> enter the cal values in the software
[21:05:33] <zeeshan|2> and you're ready to go?
[21:05:36] <andypugh> Yes
[21:05:38] <zeeshan|2> omfg.
[21:05:49] <zeeshan|2> i dont know why this guy keeps on telling me it , instron needs to come to calibrate it
[21:05:54] <andypugh> (Actually, I always did my own dead-weight cals too)
[21:06:03] <zeeshan|2> i was even thinking, i could just hang out precise weights off the frame
[21:06:07] <zeeshan|2> aand calibrate it that way.
[21:06:32] <zeeshan|2> i'm so glad you know this stuff :)
[21:06:36] <zeeshan|2> helps a lot.
[21:07:42] <andypugh> Calibrate with weights with the gauge off the machine so the direction is right. Then there is no argument.
[21:08:30] <andypugh> It suddenly got _very_ late here.
[21:08:42] <Tom_itx> heh
[21:08:43] <zeeshan|2> thanks for the help!
[21:08:49] <Tom_itx> andypugh you never sleep!
[21:09:19] <andypugh> Contact me privately if you need more info, I did 15 years postdoc in mechanical testing.
[21:27:01] <CaptHindsight> zeeshan|2: your coating went out a few hours ago, you should have it by noon tomorrow
[21:31:51] <XXCoder1> capt now make me my cnc router lol
[21:31:58] * furrywolf curls up and yawns
[21:32:10] <furrywolf> meh. there's no one in this channel to curl up on.
[21:34:30] <XXCoder1> yo
[21:44:15] * furrywolf sighs
[21:45:38] <PetefromTn_> well
[21:45:54] <PetefromTn_> I spent some time out in the shop today working on the new lathe
[21:46:05] <PetefromTn_> got some more sheetmetal stripped
[21:46:23] <PetefromTn_> and finally removed the original X axis servomotor from the carriage
[21:46:37] <PetefromTn_> I am going to try to clean it up a bit so maybe I can sell it.
[21:46:52] <PetefromTn_> it just has gunk on it but it appears to be in good shape
[21:47:45] <PetefromTn_> Now that the new spindle motor is ordered and on it's way I have to source a pulley for it
[21:48:18] <PetefromTn_> I have the ratio already figured and I THINK it will be an off the shelf cast iron pulley with adapter setup so hopefully plug and play
[21:48:36] <PetefromTn_> I am getting ready to order the new Z axis ballscrew here hopefully soon.
[21:48:49] <PetefromTn_> So I pulled the mounts off the machine and started measuring them
[21:49:24] <PetefromTn_> looks like the driven end was designed to take angular contact preloaded pair with a 47mmOD and probably a 20mmID 14mm thick
[21:50:00] <PetefromTn_> it has a very cool clamp style pocket for the bearings that can be bolted into another housing that gets bolted to the machines base
[21:50:25] <PetefromTn_> luckily those are relatively cheap on ebay.
[21:50:58] <PetefromTn_> the tailstock end of the screw is kind of interesting tho
[21:51:13] <PetefromTn_> there is a plain bearing that has another mount/housing at the end of travel
[21:51:52] <PetefromTn_> it has a short stub shaft in it that goes thru the bearing and stops just below flush and it is solid in the middle with a tapped metric screw hole.
[21:52:20] <PetefromTn_> the other side of the stub shaft has a 16.5mm bore with what appears to be a cross drilled pin setup
[21:53:18] <PetefromTn_> the best I can figure is that the tailstock/undriven end of the screw was machined to fit in the 16.5mm bore and then pinned to it and there must have been a washer on the other side of the bearing to hold the end of the screw from coming out of the bearing or something....
[21:54:00] <PetefromTn_> what is odd tho is that this mount for the plain bearing has no shoulder or anything just a smooth deep bore all the way thru
[21:54:36] <PetefromTn_> I know you don't ever want to secure both ends of the screw so It can expand and contract with temperature etc but I am kinda unsure how this whole setup should go together
[21:55:20] <XXCoder1> well
[21:55:26] <XXCoder1> hope you fugure it out :)
[21:55:49] <furrywolf> you should tell that to the chinese people who made my shoptask mill, with the Y axis screw held in place by a steel-on-steel "bearing" on each end, so if you adjust it so it has minimal backlash, it promptly jams or gets sloppy as soon as the temperature changes...
[21:59:08] <PetefromTn_> it seems like if you just machined the end of the new screw to fit snug in the stub shaft 16.5mm end and then pressed that into the plain bearing and then installed the washer and shcs on the other end of the bearing it would hold the screw securely yet since the bearing is pressed into the bore on the mount it could float with temp etc.
[21:59:42] <PetefromTn_> it is interesting to see tho that the driven end is close to the headstock so the screw PULLS the carriage towards the chuck and not the other way around.
[22:00:42] <PetefromTn_> once the new motor is here I will get it ready to be installed and modify the motor mount plate however necessary to put that beast inside the base of the machine
[22:01:11] <XXCoder1> heh classic one https://i.chzbgr.com/maxW500/7185280512/hF93B98F7/
[22:01:51] <PetefromTn_> http://www.ebay.com/itm/2-Angular-Contact-7204B-20x47x14-20mm-47mm-14mm-Ball-Screw-Spindle-Ball-Bearings-/400241199508?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item5d303c0994 those should work for my angular contact pair I think..
[22:02:36] <furrywolf> xxcoder: ... huh?
[22:02:48] <XXCoder1> ever watched aliens?
[22:04:07] <furrywolf> probably, a very long time ago. don't remember any of it.
[22:05:09] * furrywolf isn't a horror movie fan
[22:05:35] <XXCoder1> lol ok. basically he was painting facehugger egg
[22:05:40] <XXCoder1> oops lol
[22:27:35] <PetefromTn_> this ballscrew's driven end is located behind a sheetmetal cover but I am wondering if I can get some kind of rubber seal to go on either side of the angular contact bearings..
[22:28:04] <Vertices> prob
[22:28:10] <Vertices> or a brush seal, whatever those are called
[22:28:11] <Vertices> sweeps?
[22:29:01] <PetefromTn_> one of the nicest features of this CNC lathe is that the ENTIRE Z ballscrew is under an L shaped cover and the cover even goes thru a slot in the carriage so it is probably not necessary but I kinda like to protect it if I can.
[22:29:31] <PetefromTn_> it is actually sort of a Z shaped cover really.
[22:31:33] <PetefromTn_> this is gonna be one sweet little CNC lathe once I get it going. I can't wait to see it make chips!!
[22:33:01] <XXCoder1> nice
[22:33:07] <furrywolf> I can't wait to get mine going either, but it takes time, money, and energy, and I'm completely out of all three.
[22:34:05] <PetefromTn_> I have been also thinking about a way to add a pneumatic collet closer to the machine.
[22:34:54] <PetefromTn_> I now have a set of brand new 5C collets and I know they make 5c adapters for the spindle's D1-5 internal taper which is I think MT5 or something
[22:35:22] <PetefromTn_> so I figure a tubular drawbar
[22:36:12] <PetefromTn_> some kind of bearing equipped carrier on the other end of the headstock tube
[22:36:54] <PetefromTn_> and then some sort of floating pneumatic cylinder that can be plumbed in to a regulated air supply I will be installing on the machine.
[22:39:06] <PetefromTn_> http://www.practicalmachinist.com/vb/tooling-parts-accessories-sale-wanted/royal-products-pneumatic-5c-collet-closer-10ee-274320/ something like this maybe
[22:41:56] <furrywolf> $850?!
[22:42:13] <PetefromTn_> yup
[22:42:24] <PetefromTn_> I think I can probably make something similar for pretty cheap
[22:42:35] <furrywolf> I think you can buy a new machine with toolchanger for that.
[22:42:40] <furrywolf> (new used, that is)
[22:42:46] <PetefromTn_> yeah good luck with that
[22:45:52] <furrywolf> that's more money than I've spent on every machine tool and accessory I own combined...
[22:47:46] <furrywolf> the sherline, the shoptask, the on-vehicle rotor lathe, the brake lathe,...
[22:48:39] <PetefromTn_> yeah and I bought a CNC vertical machining cente for $1350.00 so what is the point? I am more interested in how to make one than the price for that used one...
[22:52:24] <PetefromTn_> http://www.cnczone.com/forums/haas-mills/38031-tl1-conversion-tube-cut-machine.html interesting version
[22:55:18] <tiwake> http://tiwake.com/20150126_002.jpg
[22:55:44] <PetefromTn_> did you make those tiwake?
[22:55:52] <tiwake> earlier today, yeah
[22:56:10] <PetefromTn_> interesting, what are they?
[22:56:18] <XXCoder1> silceniers I guess heh
[22:56:23] <tiwake> muzzle brakes for a local gun smith
[22:56:40] <tiwake> silencers need an outer housing
[22:56:58] <PetefromTn_> what machines did you use? are they linuxCNC controlled?
[22:57:17] <unfy> if you're in the states, careful about stuff. feds want stupid monies ._.
[22:57:22] <tiwake> heh, no... an old wasino LJ-6MC
[22:57:31] <PetefromTn_> it's not a silencer..
[22:57:33] <tiwake> fanuc controller
[22:58:25] <tiwake> if its not a suppressor, a receiver, or armor piercing rounds, the feds don't care
[22:58:30] <PetefromTn_> nice is that a live tooled lathe?
[22:58:55] <tiwake> yeah, it has a C-axis... not really any other way you could make that heh
[22:58:56] <furrywolf> the cops have more than frequently shown they don't care what the actual laws are.
[22:58:59] <unfy> feds do care. see also, the ddtc / itar.
[22:59:20] <tiwake> unfy: ..?
[22:59:43] <unfy> wanna sell just cast lead bullets you made ? the ddtc / itar will want $2k/year in licensing.
[22:59:47] <furrywolf> and "shall not be infringed" seems to be ignored entirely.
[22:59:48] <tiwake> and actually they don't care if its a receiver that you don't sell
[23:00:13] <PetefromTn_> that looks like a sweet little turning center
[23:00:27] <tiwake> PetefromTn_: erm... little? lol
[23:00:36] <unfy> wanna sell moon clips for shooting semi auto rounds in revolvers ? the ddtc / itar will want $2k / year in licensing.
[23:00:38] <tiwake> its a monster lathe
[23:00:55] <tiwake> unfy: link?
[23:00:57] <unfy> (the 2k figure is 'minimum'
[23:01:01] <PetefromTn_> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OpusmgkrQuA its this one no?
[23:01:22] <tiwake> PetefromTn_: yeah, thats it
[23:01:42] <tiwake> PetefromTn_: the main spindle is 30hp and the live tooling motor is 7hp
[23:01:49] <unfy> tiwake: for the ddtc / itar ?
[23:01:54] <tiwake> unfy: yeah
[23:02:15] <furrywolf> bbl
[23:02:17] <PetefromTn_> looks like a typical turning center to me man? I have seen some that dwarf that thing.
[23:02:18] <unfy> i was.... looking up the ammo stuff a while back .... http://www.pmddtc.state.gov/regulations_laws/documents/official_itar/2012/ITAR_Part_121.pdf
[23:02:33] <unfy> that should be definitions
[23:02:48] <unfy> registration requirements: http://www.pmddtc.state.gov/regulations_laws/documents/official_itar/2012/ITAR_Part_122.pdf
[23:02:48] <furrywolf> 404
[23:02:55] <unfy> fuckin damnit
[23:03:25] <tiwake> PetefromTn_: heh, alright... tiz true there are some that are quite large... that I have never used before :P
[23:04:11] <furrywolf> bbl
[23:04:22] <PetefromTn_> don't feel bad man it dwarf's my new CNC lathe heh
[23:04:40] <tiwake> PetefromTn_: I have two of those LJ-6's actually
[23:04:56] <PetefromTn_> what does it weigh do you know?
[23:05:01] <unfy> tiwake: you can use https://www.pmddtc.state.gov/regulations_laws/itar.html to get the updated ddtc/itar stuff.
[23:05:10] <tiwake> 12k lbs?
[23:05:12] <unfy> http://www.progunleaders.org/DDTC/ would be an example of the ddtc/itar in action
[23:05:17] <tiwake> or was it 14k?
[23:06:02] <tiwake> unfy: oh, thats international?
[23:06:09] <unfy> that's just it... it's NOT
[23:06:28] <PetefromTn_> web says 11700
[23:06:53] <tiwake> PetefromTn_: seems right
[23:06:57] <tiwake> 12k lbs
[23:07:21] <PetefromTn_> nice it has a powered tailstock and live tooling tho. kick ass machine... do they ever come with a sub spindle?
[23:07:23] <unfy> http://www.ecfr.gov/cgi-bin/text-idx?SID=86008bdffd1fb2e79cc5df41a180750a&node=22:1.0.1.13.59&rgn=div5#se22.1.122_11 section (a): A manufacturer who does not engage in exporting must nevertheless register.
[23:08:07] <tiwake> PetefromTn_: donno... I do want a subspindle lathe though... might be the next machine purchase
[23:08:15] <tiwake> maybe brand new
[23:08:18] <PetefromTn_> where is your shop?
[23:08:26] <tiwake> tillamook oregon
[23:08:33] <tiwake> (USA)
[23:08:34] <PetefromTn_> ok nice
[23:08:48] <PetefromTn_> I am just a home shop CNC guy getting started.
[23:09:07] <unfy> the registration fee appears to have been removed from the document and moved to a "Statement of Registration" thing (form DS-2032) and blah blah blah. in 2013 this was $2,250 for tier 1 (low volume / little guys)
[23:09:09] <PetefromTn_> I have a Cincinatti Arrow 500 and just bought this Standard Modern CNC 14x40 lathe.
[23:10:15] <tiwake> unfy: but it does not really say register for what though
[23:10:42] <unfy> as in get your name in the ddtc/itar record book.
[23:11:03] <unfy> they also have paperwork records requirements and other garbage
[23:11:35] <PetefromTn_> does that thing have constant surface speed?
[23:11:45] <tiwake> yeah
[23:11:53] <PetefromTn_> sweet
[23:12:20] <PetefromTn_> do you just manually deburr those holes or is there another op?
[23:12:49] <tiwake> uh, the outer part gets turned anyway, so there isnt much point to deburring
[23:13:03] <PetefromTn_> nice
[23:13:12] <tiwake> the one hole on the end gets prettied up though
[23:13:17] <PetefromTn_> what rifles is this for?
[23:13:21] <tiwake> any
[23:13:26] <PetefromTn_> thread?
[23:13:47] <tiwake> 1/2-28, as is standard for threaded gun barrels
[23:14:03] <PetefromTn_> dunno never made one... thanks for the information.
[23:16:18] <tiwake> lemme show you more pictures
[23:16:37] <PetefromTn_> knock yerself out LOL
[23:17:04] <unfy> give ya food for thought.... a bit of warning.... and now for the general statement: cool :D
[23:17:12] <tiwake> PetefromTn_: http://tiwake.com/20141023_001.jpg
[23:17:33] <unfy> (i do happen to reload ammo and stuff)
[23:17:36] <PetefromTn_> nice what diameter?
[23:17:48] <tiwake> unfy: I have no idea what it is though, and everything I read does not say what its purpose is
[23:18:08] <tiwake> unfy: I do too :3
[23:18:23] <unfy> tiwake: ddtc/itar is all about trade secrets / intel back traces etc.
[23:18:54] <unfy> and, it's supposed to be *international* trading stuff... but even if you don't do international, they still insist you register.
[23:19:03] <tiwake> PetefromTn_: 6" diameter, 5.7" long blanks if I recall
[23:19:24] <tiwake> unfy: but there are no trade secrets...
[23:19:26] <PetefromTn_> oh they looked bigger than that.
[23:19:46] <unfy> oh, and the moon clips i mention are secretive ? they don't care.
[23:19:48] <PetefromTn_> 30 HP must make short work of turning those down
[23:20:30] <PetefromTn_> those brakes were ally?
[23:20:55] <tiwake> PetefromTn_: heh yeah... use a big 2.5" spade drill.. push that thing quite hard
[23:21:01] <unfy> the definitions section of the thing define you as a manufacterer (121). and then section 122 says that you must register.
[23:24:50] <PetefromTn_> tiwake have you ever made anything very complex contoured on the lathe?
[23:25:19] <tiwake> PetefromTn_: no cams, if thats what you mean
[23:25:43] <PetefromTn_> no not cams
[23:25:44] <unfy> a local metal head was also making / selling his own hornady lnl ap shell plates back in 2012 when EVERYTHING was in short supply :D
[23:26:05] <PetefromTn_> I am trying to wrap my head around a part I need to make once the lathe is online
[23:26:24] <PetefromTn_> it is like a 6" diameter 6061 disk with some curvy contours in its face
[23:26:41] <PetefromTn_> but the contours have back reliefs in them
[23:27:23] <PetefromTn_> so it will probably take some custom ground tools and two operations.
[23:28:51] <tiwake> PetefromTn_: https://www.dropbox.com/s/vfxg2afzdrx2465/20131023_001.jpg?dl=0
[23:29:24] <tiwake> thats two operations, the front nose end is done first
[23:30:56] <PetefromTn_> is that bronze or something?
[23:31:05] <tiwake> copper
[23:31:50] <PetefromTn_> interesting but that is not really what I am talking about.
[23:31:55] <tiwake> :P
[23:32:58] <CaptHindsight> PetefromTn_: how much power do you have into your house?
[23:33:06] <PetefromTn_> not enough LOL
[23:33:16] <PetefromTn_> why?
[23:33:20] <CaptHindsight> yeah was thinking about the new 7.5hp addition
[23:33:30] <unfy> tiwake: powder coating cast bullets is pretty neat, too btw
[23:33:38] <CaptHindsight> and you already have the big Cincinnati
[23:33:57] <PetefromTn_> big is relative
[23:34:12] <PetefromTn_> should not be a problem tho
[23:34:19] <CaptHindsight> I'm running out and I have 208V 3p
[23:34:23] <CaptHindsight> 200A
[23:34:43] <PetefromTn_> I have run my old lathe and the cincinatti and the compressor etc etc before
[23:35:13] <PetefromTn_> probably don't want to be cooking in the kitchen, running the laundry, and trying to run parts on both machines at the same time tho hehe.
[23:35:19] <tiwake> unfy: what?
[23:35:49] <PetefromTn_> honestly I have had the Cincinatti running a good bit lately and my power bills have been pretty low so far
[23:35:58] <unfy> powder coat cast lead bullets instead of using lube.
[23:35:59] <CaptHindsight> sorry kids no toast while dads milling
[23:36:02] <PetefromTn_> it must be the new AC unit
[23:36:18] <PetefromTn_> my power bill for this month believe it or not was only $85.00
[23:36:42] <PetefromTn_> last year my power was nearly $400.00
[23:37:08] <CaptHindsight> yeah old AC units can be awful
[23:37:18] <tiwake> unfy: using lube... on bullets?
[23:37:32] <PetefromTn_> honestly as I said in here we were air conditioning our crawlspace and the emergency heat was mostly doing the job.
[23:37:32] <tiwake> unfy: why would anyone want grease on a bullet?
[23:37:39] <unfy> tiwake: i guess you don't cast your own bullets ?
[23:37:44] <tiwake> no
[23:38:02] <CaptHindsight> I had a old window ac unit a few years ago that was under 20K btu but drew the same power as something 3x the size new
[23:38:11] <tiwake> casting lead is too boring for me
[23:38:16] <tiwake> :P
[23:38:23] <unfy> ah, there will be grooves in the bullet, typically covered by the case mouth, has a waxy lube in it
[23:38:23] <PetefromTn_> I had hopes the new AC unit would be more efficient but so far it is freakin' amazing..
[23:38:44] <tiwake> ohhh... I know what you are talking about now
[23:38:48] <CaptHindsight> yeah HVAC units have come a long way
[23:38:52] <tiwake> then why not say wax?
[23:39:15] <PetefromTn_> house is always nice and warm and it seems to be running less. truth be told tho it has been a very warm winter so far here.
[23:39:22] <unfy> cause it's not wax. it's bullet lube.
[23:39:35] <unfy> (home made can be 50% beeswax, 50% lithium grease)
[23:39:49] <tiwake> uh, ok
[23:40:07] <tiwake> if I make bullets they will be from solid copper rod, turned in a lathe
[23:40:09] <unfy> lube is just the official / proper name. cause it is a lube heh
[23:40:58] <PetefromTn_> http://i.imgur.com/oyqU87E.jpg gotta turn some more of these once the lathe is online heh
[23:41:27] <tiwake> that looks pretty fancy
[23:41:39] <PetefromTn_> yeah I make a bunch of different flavors
[23:41:44] <CaptHindsight> I had the 10hp matsuura on a 30A 3P breaker and only tripped it once
[23:42:28] <CaptHindsight> I accidentally ran the Z down to fast with a large facemill into aluminum
[23:42:31] <PetefromTn_> once the CNC lathe is up and running I want to experiment with turning the shape in the disk first before CNC milling the pockets
[23:42:52] <CaptHindsight> other than that it never draws close to what the breakers are rated for
[23:42:58] <PetefromTn_> yeah I have the Cinci on a 60 amp single phase breaker and never had a problem so far.
[23:43:26] <PetefromTn_> the worst load I put it under was the other day my friend was over who is also a CNC machinist
[23:43:37] <PetefromTn_> and we were chatting while I was setting up a part
[23:43:50] <CaptHindsight> man it was trying, if it was on the 70A breaker it probably would have ripped through the aluminum
[23:43:51] <tiwake> I see where this is going
[23:44:24] <PetefromTn_> it was a 2" wide 1" thick 6061 piece and I was running a 3/8 endmill in a peel milling operation around the perimeter working my way in at full depth
[23:44:43] <PetefromTn_> only while I was distracted talking to him I forgot to cut the short piece to the correct length
[23:45:12] <PetefromTn_> so when it came around the corner on the long end it basically went full width full depth thru the part 2" across
[23:45:26] <PetefromTn_> it slowed the spindle a bit and scared the piss out of me
[23:45:31] <PetefromTn_> but it ripped right thru
[23:45:40] <PetefromTn_> and it was just a finishing endmill really
[23:45:44] <CaptHindsight> yeah you hear the change in pitch and you start to look around
[23:45:58] <PetefromTn_> oh there was DEFINITELY a change in pitch LOL
[23:46:09] <PetefromTn_> I am amazed the cutter did not snap right off
[23:46:13] <CaptHindsight> I was milling one day with the shop door closed and a tornado passed by closely
[23:46:15] <PetefromTn_> it was going like 30IPM
[23:46:37] <CaptHindsight> I heard a rumble and could feel the floor shake so it stopped the machine
[23:46:40] <PetefromTn_> spindle was turning like 5500 RPM
[23:46:53] <CaptHindsight> it/I
[23:47:04] <PetefromTn_> is this that big matsu you bought recently?
[23:47:10] <CaptHindsight> then i realized that it was the building that was shaking
[23:47:17] <CaptHindsight> yeah
[23:47:20] <PetefromTn_> I bet you shit your jeans heh
[23:47:53] <CaptHindsight> ran to the door to watch purple rain go by sideways :)
[23:48:13] <PetefromTn_> when I worked in the first shop down south a guy crashed the hell out of a bid HAAS turning center one day.
[23:48:17] <PetefromTn_> that was LOUD
[23:48:26] <PetefromTn_> pieces went flying
[23:48:42] <CaptHindsight> is was over 1/4 mile away but it sounded louder than the actual trains about that far from the shop
[23:48:46] <PetefromTn_> but the noise kinda went right thru everyone in the building like a cold chill
[23:49:07] <CaptHindsight> yeah, that will wake you up
[23:49:19] <PetefromTn_> yup and not in a nice way hehehe
[23:49:43] <PetefromTn_> I am kinda glad my new CNC lathe ONLY has 7.5HP...
[23:49:54] <PetefromTn_> 30 plus HP has a way of rearranging stuff
[23:50:14] <tiwake> yeah
[23:50:28] <tiwake> machine does not care about tooling so much at that point
[23:51:03] <PetefromTn_> I think also a turning center like that is one of the easiest machines to crash too lots of complex movement and clearances etc.
[23:51:06] <tiwake> ...or tool holders
[23:51:50] <CaptHindsight> I've picked up a few lathes that were crashed with sheared gears
[23:52:10] <tiwake> unfy: I asked a lawyer friend about that... see what he says
[23:52:34] <unfy> tiwake: wise.
[23:52:47] <PetefromTn_> OK angular contact bearings for the Z screw are ordered and on their way!
[23:53:06] <PetefromTn_> Time to hit the sack I think... gonna work some more on this stuff tomorrow.
[23:53:18] <PetefromTn_> tiwake thanks for sharing your pics man
[23:53:35] <CaptHindsight> I have rebuild the spindle on the matsuura, will probably go with a 10K rpm next
[23:53:52] <PetefromTn_> does it have a cartridge spindle?
[23:54:00] <CaptHindsight> i think that is why he sold it for so low
[23:54:06] <CaptHindsight> yes
[23:54:21] <PetefromTn_> thats nice at least you can just unbolt it and take it down
[23:54:35] <PetefromTn_> my machine apparenlty you have to do inside the head casting
[23:54:44] <PetefromTn_> not looking foward to that.
[23:55:06] <PetefromTn_> right now the spindle sounds pretty good so hopefully it will be awhile.
[23:55:22] <PetefromTn_> probably looking at $1k for the bearings or so.
[23:56:31] <PetefromTn_> well Gn8 folks...
[23:56:43] <CaptHindsight> g'nite
[23:56:56] <PetefromTn_> :D
[23:57:03] <CaptHindsight> hasta banana
[23:58:32] <CaptHindsight> http://www.matsuura.co.uk/news/2013/07/24/careers-at-matsuura-2013/ the tech is wearing gloves and clean suit