#linuxcnc | Logs for 2015-01-18

[00:06:48] <pcw_home> http://dynamicsystems.asmedigitalcollection.asme.org/article.aspx?articleid=1406213
[00:09:09] <pcw_home> just need to learn when and axis has been static for long enough to stick and give it a little thump when starting...
[00:12:23] <zeeshan_> pcw_home, yes!
[00:12:25] <zeeshan_> that would be cool
[00:12:26] <zeeshan_> lol
[00:13:18] <zeeshan_> do you want that article
[00:13:23] <zeeshan_> i have access to asme
[00:17:57] <pcw_home> I just thought it was interesting that its a big issue (apparently the correct way oil make a big difference also)
[00:21:31] <Sairon> what's a big issue?
[00:22:44] <pcw_home> stiction
[00:23:07] <Sairon> oh, yeah
[00:23:18] <Sairon> ever read... that one book by the moore's
[00:23:41] <Sairon> hmm
[00:24:02] <Sairon> the folks who made jig grinders
[00:25:47] <Sairon> http://mooretool.com/publications.html
[00:26:00] <Sairon> Foundations of Mechanical Accuracy
[00:26:06] <Sairon> that's the one i was thinking of
[00:26:36] <pcw_home> a machine with linear scales is ideal for showing this error (it would likely not be as apparent and a machine with rotary encoders)
[00:27:41] <pcw_home> since the spring in the drive train would hide some of the error
[00:28:58] <pcw_home> looks like a classic book...
[00:29:02] <Sairon> i would think
[00:29:13] <Sairon> you'd need a rotary and a linear encoder
[00:29:20] <Sairon> to catch that
[00:31:11] <Sairon> yeah, love that book
[00:31:15] <Sairon> read it a couple times
[00:31:27] <Sairon> worked in tool and die for a little bit
[00:31:48] <Sairon> and there's just something super exciting about +/- 25 or 50 millionths tolerances
[00:33:23] <pcw_home> I thought it was interesting the they had names for the problems stiction causes: "quadrant glitches"
[00:33:30] <pcw_home> that they
[00:33:48] <Sairon> stiction becomes an issue in contour grinding on cnc controlled jig grinders
[00:36:09] <pcw_home> I wonder if its possibly better to creep along very slowly instead of stopping
[00:36:23] <Sairon> well
[00:36:30] <Sairon> i think if you are worried about stiction
[00:36:38] <Sairon> you're trying to position precisely enough
[00:36:42] <Sairon> that the answer is no
[00:38:44] <pcw_home> for something like a circle it may depend on how slow you can go before you get metal-metal contact and thats lubricant dependent
[00:39:02] <Sairon> yeah
[00:39:17] <Sairon> tribology is a tricky subject
[00:41:16] <pcw_home> so quadrant glitches (the stiction part anyway) may only appear below a certain speed
[00:41:42] <XXCoder> home safe finally
[00:42:18] <pcw_home> 'nite
[00:44:41] <Sairon> seems reasonable
[00:48:03] <Sairon> i'd love to do machine tool research
[02:20:14] <Deejay> moin
[05:48:22] <Loetmichel> mornin'
[05:51:17] <Loetmichel> grrr... i should have tinkered around before the first Coffee... $me pulls the x-acto knife out of the finger tip... and puts a bandaid on... that was a DEEP cut, it seeps thru the bandaid like crazy :-(
[07:15:10] <Jymmm> If I get a tank of CO2, wil it come out butt ass cold if I turn it upsidedown?
[07:18:17] <archivist> it comes out cold because of the expansion, not because the thing is one way up or down
[07:19:20] <Jymmm> I was thinking like air dusters when you turn them upside down.
[07:19:42] <Jymmm> but giant economy sized
[07:20:15] <Jymmm> I need -40 primarily,
[07:56:10] <malcom2073> Jymmm: You're thinking the liquid CO2 will come out, rather than the gas?
[07:56:34] <archivist> in his misguided dreams
[07:56:47] <Jymmm> A smaller version of this https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h0wGRQ0saRQ
[07:57:11] <Jymmm> or this https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FrveaKp7J9Q
[07:57:39] <malcom2073> That seems like a terrible idea
[07:57:46] <malcom2073> the spraying people at a party thing
[07:58:24] <malcom2073> But I see where you're coming from, but I have no idea if big tanks work that way, how does that thing work?
[07:59:18] <Jymmm> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JvFyagVegjM
[08:00:28] <archivist> co2 in high percentages kills
[08:00:57] <archivist> expansion reduces temperature, known fact
[08:01:33] <Jymmm> No regulator?
[08:02:30] <archivist> you dont see a regulator on a c02 fire extinguisher
[08:03:52] <Jymmm> I didn't know if it was set/limited like a carb jet.
[08:04:07] <archivist> it is the inverse of gas compression which gets hot
[08:05:12] <Jymmm> I need to control the "cold" to apx 3" diameter
[08:05:55] <Jymmm> at a distance of about 8-12"
[08:07:07] <archivist> for how long
[08:07:24] <archivist> tanks have a limited qty
[08:07:40] <Jymmm> 5-30 seconds shots at a time
[08:16:14] <Jymmm> This isn't what I'm doing, but this doe look like fun https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=FWQYVBa7DEs#t=276
[08:16:24] <Jymmm> archivist: Think that's "legal" in the UK ?
[08:17:30] <archivist> probably not
[08:17:49] <Jymmm> archivist: Are stun guns?
[08:18:09] <archivist> only for the cops
[08:18:26] <Jymmm> same with tasers?
[08:18:40] <archivist> tasers I mean for the cops
[08:19:08] <Jymmm> and stun guns?
[08:19:21] <archivist> probably not
[08:19:45] <Jymmm> are you guys allowed to defend yourself with anything other than a flyswatter?
[08:20:53] <archivist> you can get a 12bore shotgun license
[08:21:05] <Jymmm> easy to get?
[08:21:13] <archivist> no
[08:21:17] <Jymmm> k
[08:21:57] <archivist> you dont have to shhot someone to defend yourself
[08:22:36] <archivist> you dont get killed in walmart by 2 year olds over here
[08:23:04] <syyl_> benefit of the "old world" ;)
[08:23:39] <Jymmm> archivist: She was a dumbass, proving evolution works =)
[08:24:20] <archivist> so is a large percentage of the gun carrying public
[08:24:52] <Jymmm> Yeah, the redneck mentality I'm afraid to say.
[08:24:58] <archivist> we have reduced the percentage that can kill over here
[08:25:43] <syyl_> there are still enough idiots that could run you over with a 2ton suv ;)
[08:27:08] <archivist> known as a chelsea tractor, mums taking kids to school in them
[08:27:18] <syyl_> ah
[08:27:27] <syyl_> you need 4wd for that!
[08:32:14] <Sairon> learn something new every day
[08:40:14] <archivist> Sairon, found apdf of that book you mentioned
[08:40:42] <malcom2073> archivist: How did you reduce the percentage of people that can kill, lobotomies? :P
[08:41:40] <archivist> draconian gun laws here
[08:41:55] <moorbo> where's here
[08:41:59] <archivist> uk
[08:42:11] <Loetmichel> *ha* got the stick done... works ;-) -> http://www.cyrom.org/palbum/main.php?g2_itemId=15565 http://www.cyrom.org/palbum/main.php?g2_itemId=15568 http://youtu.be/LTDYI1BeZFc
[08:42:12] <moorbo> weird, how we have in canada billions of guns
[08:42:18] <malcom2073> You assume that's why you don't have as many people killing each other, in reality its cause you all aren't as stupid as we are :P
[08:42:24] <moorbo> and less than 100 gun related deaths a year.
[08:43:18] <moorbo> draconian gun laws have little to do with gun related deaths.
[08:43:49] <malcom2073> Education has a lot more to do with it
[08:43:53] <moorbo> yep
[08:44:07] <archivist> nuff said http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_firearm-related_death_rate
[08:44:13] <Sairon> archivist: good. Hope you enjoy it as much as I have.
[08:44:48] <malcom2073> archivist: Yes, if you make a weapon harder to get, people will use it less to kill people, doesn't mean they won't kill people as much, and for that: correlation is not causation
[08:45:30] <moorbo> malcom2073: thats not a true statement.
[08:45:59] <moorbo> you're suggesting having an over abundance would make death by said weapon more common
[08:46:02] <archivist> I see canada is 10 times uk
[08:46:09] <Sairon> watching a video about automatic surface grinders
[08:46:13] <Sairon> makes my left arm happy
[08:46:15] <malcom2073> moorbo: no, I suggested the opposite.
[08:47:03] <moorbo> malcom2073: sorry I missed the second part of your sentence
[08:47:23] <archivist> Sairon, schlesinger and his work on testing machine tools was not mentioned in that book which I found a bit odd
[08:48:13] <Sairon> what year was that/
[08:48:50] <archivist> started in the 1930's and got updated till 1980 ish
[08:49:13] <archivist> I have the 8th edition 1982
[08:49:17] <Sairon> in that case, yeah
[08:49:32] <Sairon> At the same time, the Moore's were... hmmm
[08:49:39] <archivist> he escaped to england before the war
[08:49:58] <Sairon> you know they were really writing that book as sort of marketing
[08:50:12] <Sairon> but it comes out being a pretty good book
[08:50:22] <archivist> I realise that, seen similar marketing books from SKF et al
[08:50:50] <Sairon> i'm going to get the schlesinger book
[08:50:53] <Sairon> sounds good
[08:51:02] <archivist> funny thing is it is cheaper to buy new than second hand
[08:51:11] <Sairon> huh
[08:51:14] <archivist> the moore book
[08:51:30] <archivist> http://www.abebooks.com/book-search/title/foundations-mechanical-accuracy/
[08:51:52] <syyl_ws> that book is awesome!
[08:52:28] <archivist> I got lucky and got the schlesinger book at the right price
[08:52:38] <syyl_ws> i have both only in pdf format :(
[08:52:48] <syyl_ws> i am still looking for the other moore book
[08:52:55] <syyl_ws> that one about hole positioning etc
[08:53:29] <Sairon> holes and contours
[08:53:38] <Sairon> yeah, i've never actually seen it in print
[08:56:26] <archivist> another one to find is Machine tool reconditioning and applications of hand scraping Edward F. Connelly
[08:56:41] <syyl_ws> thats also very nice
[08:56:43] <syyl_ws> :D
[08:56:55] <Sairon> ugh
[08:57:07] <Sairon> I used to be interested in hand scraping
[08:57:24] <Sairon> the one shop i worked at had a guy who's job was to rebuild the machines
[08:58:02] <Sairon> it was pretty much black magic
[08:58:16] <archivist> it also has the measuring etc when rebuilding
[08:58:28] <syyl_ws> hrhr
[08:58:30] <syyl_ws> yeah
[08:58:35] <syyl_ws> scraping a flat surface is easy
[08:58:51] <syyl_ws> align a number of surfaces to each other is another story
[08:59:35] <syyl_ws> did my lathe, drillpress and a few workholding tools
[08:59:57] <syyl_ws> and i always find it interesting how accurate you can get with that simple process
[09:00:08] <archivist> a requirement for any chinese tool
[09:00:26] <syyl_ws> yes :D
[09:00:31] <archivist> even a file can be used reasonably
[09:00:41] <Sairon> they make tools in china?
[09:00:42] <Sairon> :)
[09:01:02] <archivist> they make random shapes
[09:01:32] <Sairon> i understand a lot of things are made in china
[09:01:48] <Sairon> but i still won't conciously allow something made by the communists
[09:01:53] <Sairon> to be brought in to my shop
[09:02:30] <Sairon> i'm sure the chinese people are fine folks
[09:02:44] <Sairon> but until they get themselves a reasonable government
[09:02:52] <Sairon> i can't justify doing business with them
[09:20:44] * Loetmichel just ate a HUGE bowl of yesterdays "kale with minced pork sausages and smoked pork chop" for Brunch... it DOES get better every time you reheat it ;-) *boarpss*
[09:21:15] <Sairon> hmm
[09:21:17] <Sairon> sausage
[09:21:26] * Sairon goes to make sausages.
[09:23:25] <SpeedEvil> CNC sausages?
[09:23:44] <Sairon> heh
[09:24:12] <Loetmichel> SpeedEvil: after finsing my joystick project
[09:24:18] <Loetmichel> finishing
[09:24:33] <Loetmichel> which involved milling button caps and holders ;-)
[10:16:33] <JT-Shop> bah, I can't get the monitor resolution right on the other wheezy computer and it can't find the monitor
[10:42:15] <cradek> bad cable?
[10:44:05] <JT-Shop> I tried both the analog and dvi cable and tried a pcie display card as well as the onboard video
[10:44:20] <JT-Shop> I should try a different monitor
[10:44:27] <archivist> yes
[10:44:50] <archivist> is your monitor known to the database
[10:45:07] <JT-Shop> I don't recall if I hand configured the monitor in Ubuntu or not
[10:45:17] <JT-Shop> should be its an Acer
[10:46:02] <JT-Shop> how can you tell?
[10:48:19] <JT-Shop> maybe I can use xrandr to set the resolution
[10:48:32] <archivist> is it choosing the right one too lspci -v | grep VGA
[10:49:08] <archivist> seems some may use the integrated rather than the plugged in card
[10:49:57] <JT-Shop> let me go down there and install xchat
[10:51:03] <archivist> there are some internet resources on this sort of problem
[11:00:54] <jthornton> logger[mah], log
[11:00:55] <logger[mah]> jthornton: Log stored at http://linuxcnc.mah.priv.at/irc/%23linuxcnc/2015-01-18.html
[11:04:03] <pcw_home> sudo get-edid | parse-edid
[11:04:05] <pcw_home> might help
[11:04:26] <jthornton> 02:00.0 VGA compatible controller: NVIDIA Corporation GT218 [GeForce 8400 GS] (rev a2) (prog-if 00 [VGA controller])
[11:04:45] <jthornton> looks like that showed the onboard video
[11:05:01] <jthornton> let me see if I can disable that
[11:18:24] <jthornton> now lspci -v | grep VGA shows two video cards and both are nvidia
[11:21:55] <zeeshan|2> pcw_home: i did some review of literature
[11:22:01] <zeeshan|2> how come i dont use D?
[11:22:08] <zeeshan|2> wouldnt that help with sudden spikes
[11:22:37] <zeeshan|2> also like you were saying earlier, i should aim for smaller servo thread
[11:22:43] <zeeshan|2> cause basically that would increase the sampling rate?
[11:23:07] <pcw_home> D effectively is the responsibility of the velocity loop (in the drive)
[11:23:34] <zeeshan|2> what if it is doing a crappy job
[11:23:51] <zeeshan|2> because i only can adjust proportional gain
[11:23:58] <zeeshan|2> for the v drive
[11:25:50] <pcw_home> I think its doing fine but theres spring and stiction in the system (you can see the PID requested velocity ramp faster than the commanded velocity)
[11:27:35] <zeeshan|2> http://i.imgur.com/HyUd6DI.png
[11:27:53] <zeeshan|2> that slight bump at the ramp portion of analogout?
[11:28:06] <pcw_home> from what little Ive read, this is always a problem (and not something easily dealt with with tuning)
[11:28:17] <zeeshan|2> i came across an article
[11:28:28] <zeeshan|2> they said they were using FF compensation to completely eliminate it
[11:28:59] <zeeshan|2> friction is a bit annoying
[11:29:07] <pcw_home> except when you apply it and its not sticking
[11:29:28] <pcw_home> and it makes things worse
[11:29:37] <zeeshan|2> hehe
[11:29:52] <zeeshan|2> its like i need to limit it
[11:29:57] <zeeshan|2> based on the rate of acceleration
[11:30:02] <zeeshan|2> like you were saying, based on jerk
[11:31:22] <pcw_home> or assume that there will be stiction if its been at 0 velocity for some time and give it a bang to start (thats the FF solution I think)
[11:31:38] <zeeshan|2> FF0?
[11:32:09] <pcw_home> unfortunately theres no stiction FF in the PID comp
[11:33:49] <zeeshan|2> http://www.mate.tue.nl/mate/pdfs/11194.pdf
[11:33:57] <zeeshan|2> page 14 really explains it well
[11:34:03] <zeeshan|2> the options that exist to remedy the problem
[11:34:12] <zeeshan|2> interesting!
[11:34:50] <zeeshan|2> you know..
[11:35:08] <zeeshan|2> another way might be adding an encoder onto the motor itself.
[11:35:11] <zeeshan|2> and comparing the signals.
[11:35:48] <zeeshan|2> nm that wont help. that will try to help with drivetrain issues
[11:36:17] <CaptHindsight> air bearings only stick when you use really really sticky air or turn off the compressor, but it's probably too much work to add them now :)
[11:37:00] <pcw_home> plotting both the commanded and actual velocities and zooming on the start of motion will give you some more info
[11:37:05] <zeeshan|2> honestly. im just gonna cut a circle on this thing
[11:37:11] <archivist> machine off the Vs and gibs add rails and carriages
[11:37:13] <zeeshan|2> take it to school measure it
[11:37:17] <zeeshan|2> and see if this stiction thing is a big deal or not
[11:37:27] <zeeshan|2> like you said, most people wouldnt pick this up without scales
[11:38:09] <zeeshan|2> archivist: i tried your theory too
[11:38:19] <zeeshan|2> i completely loosened the gib so it was free moving
[11:38:35] <archivist> I get a lot of stiction because of unbalanced weight on the slides
[11:38:38] <zeeshan|2> it didnt effect the striction much
[11:38:44] <zeeshan|2> maybe 2 tenths
[11:40:23] <zeeshan|2> archivist: similar trace pattern like mine?
[11:40:50] <archivist> trace pattern !.... stepper stalls
[11:40:55] <pcw_home> I wonder if a simple kludge would help, like adding a step in velocity at startup from 0 (or close to 0 velocity) until motion is noticed from the scales
[11:41:35] <archivist> like pretend it has some backlash
[11:42:13] <pcw_home> this would still store unwanted energy in the axis mechanics but it would be applied instantly, not gradually like the feedback term
[11:42:47] <pcw_home> (a big bang for a short time)
[11:44:31] <zeeshan|2> gonna try different oil too.
[11:44:54] <zeeshan|2> correct me if im wrong
[11:44:56] <Tom_itx> you might notice a dimple at the circle quadrants is all
[11:45:22] <zeeshan|2> but physically this means: the kinetic friction is siginficantly different from the static friction
[11:45:47] <zeeshan|2> so if i find a fluid that has similar coefficient of frictions in both states , it should help
[11:46:02] <zeeshan|2> Tom_itx: if theyre in the tenths , not a big deal
[11:46:14] <zeeshan|2> but if its going to be in the .0015 range, that is a big deal :P
[11:46:26] <Tom_itx> check it on a cmm
[11:46:31] <zeeshan|2> yes
[11:46:33] <Tom_itx> it'll look horrible
[11:46:43] <zeeshan|2> ill put a probe on it and measure the circularity
[11:46:56] <zeeshan|2> or i might just do it simply under a microscope
[11:47:00] <zeeshan|2> if i cant get access to cmm
[11:52:26] <pcw_home> the trick with stiction is never stop moving :-)
[11:53:08] <Jymmmm> ... OR YOU WILL DIE!!!
[11:53:16] <zeeshan|2> haha pcw_home
[11:53:22] <zeeshan|2> reversing direction brings it up too though!
[11:53:28] <Jymmmm> oh, um, wrong movie... nevermind.
[11:53:30] <zeeshan|2> you need to stop moving at some point :P
[11:54:08] <pcw_home> well not so long that the oil flows out
[11:54:17] <Tom_itx> mmm beat me to it!
[11:54:28] <Jymmmm> "Speed (1984)"
[11:55:00] <zeeshan|2> pcw_home: now i think my Y axis is lighter.
[11:55:03] <zeeshan|2> the ram that is.
[11:55:12] <zeeshan|2> because it has no stiction issues
[11:55:19] <zeeshan|2> only Z and X do and theyre both related to table
[11:55:20] <Jymmmm> zeeshan|2: Lighter? Like Michael Jackson?
[11:55:29] <zeeshan|2> Jymmmm: hi master troll! :P
[11:55:59] <Jymmmm> zeeshan|2: Please know the difference between trolling and smartassery.
[11:56:08] <zeeshan|2> trolls are usually very smart
[11:56:35] <Jymmmm> Just answer the question... Like MJ?
[11:56:38] <zeeshan|2> he art of deliberately, cleverly, and secretly pissing people off, usually via the internet, using dialogue.
[11:56:43] <zeeshan|2> :-)
[11:57:04] <Jymmmm> zeeshan|2: But I'm not trying to piss anyone off, that was my point.
[11:57:19] <zeeshan|2> i'm kiddin around
[11:57:31] <Jymmmm> I know, just sayin is all.
[11:58:02] <Tom_itx> i can count on Jymmmm to keep my connection from timing out from inactivity.
[11:58:18] <zeeshan|2> hahah
[11:58:45] <Jymmm> Tom_itx: Um, um, um, ah fuck it... youre welcome!
[11:59:22] <zeeshan|2> http://www.expertune.com/articles/RuelNov2000/stiction.html]
[12:02:23] <CaptHindsight> zeeshan|2: how do they fix the ends of the ballscrews on your mill?
[12:02:33] <zeeshan|2> CaptHindsight: depends on axis
[12:02:37] <archivist> does your lube have any EP additive
[12:02:45] <zeeshan|2> Z and Y are fixed on both ends
[12:03:42] <zeeshan|2> im using mobil vactra oil #1
[12:03:44] <zeeshan|2> im using mobil vactra oil #2
[12:03:45] <zeeshan|2> i mean
[12:04:13] <Tom_itx> iirc that's what we used
[12:04:50] <CaptHindsight> http://machinedesign.com/site-files/machinedesign.com/files/archive/motionsystemdesign.com/images/main-types894.jpg like the bottom drawing?
[12:05:01] <zeeshan|2> no
[12:05:08] <zeeshan|2> Z and Y are like the 3rd one
[12:05:15] <zeeshan|2> X is like the first one
[12:05:45] <archivist> may need to go up to the vactra 3 or 4
[12:06:03] <zeeshan|2> archivist: i wish they posted u_s and u_k for these
[12:06:23] <archivist> more viscosity to stop it being squeezed out
[12:06:48] <zeeshan|2> once i get my lube pump line replaced
[12:07:05] <zeeshan|2> im gonna try turning on the lube pump for 30 seconds and jog the axes
[12:07:18] <archivist> are you running unpumped!
[12:07:27] <zeeshan|2> and see if that helps. it might be getting wiped out currently cause im manually lubing the ways
[12:07:32] <zeeshan|2> with a squirt can
[12:07:57] <archivist> get the pump running may fix everything
[12:08:23] <zeeshan|2> if it does, i am going to be an avid supporter of LUBE
[12:08:24] <Tom_itx> yeah, tune your system then add oil...
[12:08:36] <archivist> would you run your car engine without oil pressure
[12:08:38] <CaptHindsight> you could profile the break away torque required over the travel of the axis, and then provide the appropriate spike when starting motion
[12:08:48] <zeeshan|2> archivist: no, but this is an interval thing anyway
[12:08:52] <zeeshan|2> its supposed to lube every 15 min
[12:09:01] <archivist> ah ok
[12:09:26] <archivist> but is it pressurizing the oil
[12:09:29] <Tom_itx> make sure you prime the capilaries when you replace the line to get rid of the air
[12:09:52] <zeeshan|2> Tom_itx: i was planning to run the pump for a while
[12:09:55] <zeeshan|2> to push the air out
[12:10:01] <_methods> yeah man those older mills used to just pump tons of way oil
[12:10:41] <_methods> you didnt have the way oil pumps running?
[12:10:51] <zeeshan|2> no
[12:11:00] <zeeshan|2> i manually lubed
[12:11:08] <Tom_itx> careful you might throw a rod
[12:11:16] <zeeshan|2> gimme a break
[12:11:16] <zeeshan|2> lol
[12:11:30] <CaptHindsight> spin a linear bearing
[12:11:46] <zeeshan|2> what is sunday
[12:11:49] <zeeshan|2> the annual smart ass day? :-)
[12:11:56] <zeeshan|2> hehe
[12:12:05] <zeeshan|2> weekly. not annual!
[12:12:10] <Tom_itx> we're just here to help
[12:12:18] <zeeshan|2> you guys should be mechanics
[12:12:24] <Tom_itx> i was once
[12:12:30] <zeeshan|2> really? :D
[12:12:43] <zeeshan|2> Tom_itx: jack of all trades
[12:12:44] <archivist> I once did factory maintenance
[12:13:32] <Tom_itx> i couldn't count how many VW engines i rebuilt... in n out in a day
[12:15:12] <zeeshan|2> yay this manual mill guy is here to pick it up
[12:15:15] <zeeshan|2> finally more SPACE
[12:15:50] <archivist> we use a steam oil for the beam bearings, 27 tones on two plain bearings
[12:17:02] <Jymmm> http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/12/04/german-shepherd-sings-with-owner_n_6250392.html
[12:18:09] <Jymmm> zeeshan|2: Now, THATS trolling =)
[12:26:06] <jthornton> The Nvidia driver is not yet configured; it needs to be enabled in xorg.conf before it can be used.
[12:26:06] <jthornton> Please see the package documentation for instructions.
[13:51:09] <mrsun> these olinuxino boards ... are stuff like that usable to run cnc machines? =)
[13:51:24] <mrsun> thinking it got tons of GPIO etc .. question is how fast those are =)
[13:53:08] <mrsun> would be neat as built in computers for cnc as they are very smal =)
[14:03:27] <Rab> mrsun, looks like Xenomai has been ported to the A13 CPU in the olinuxino, so that's a start. A dedicated individual could probably get Machinekit running. But, no telling what RT performance might be. If you want something cheap, small, and usable now, you might want to look at Machinekit on the BeagleBone Black instead.
[14:06:02] <zeeshan> http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?UpdatingTo2.6
[14:06:06] <zeeshan> after i followed these steps
[14:06:21] <zeeshan> i can no longer download packages like openssh-server
[14:09:02] <zeeshan> The following packages have unmet dependencies:
[14:09:02] <zeeshan> openssh-server: Depends: openssh-client (= 1:5.3p1-3ubuntu3) but 1:5.3p1-3ubuntu7 is to be installed
[14:09:02] <zeeshan> E: Broken packages
[14:11:46] <zeeshan> nm
[14:11:48] <zeeshan> fixed
[14:32:37] <mrsun> i wonder if a 400mA adapter is enough to drive my breakout board and stepper drivers logic
[14:33:45] <mrsun> 10 - 15mA per signal .. 3 drives so a maximum of 150mA .. then the rest to drive the breakout board and its sinks etc
[14:35:41] <zeeshan|2> for mesa?
[14:36:01] <mrsun> zeeshan: nah this is for my old drive system
[14:36:09] <mrsun> had cables from the PC before for the 5V for breakout board
[14:36:22] <mrsun> but dont want that and i have a 5V 350mA adapter laying around
[14:44:40] <CaptHindsight> mrsun: how many IO, unless you have >100 you should be fine
[14:45:34] <mrsun> capricorn_1: its just 3 for each driver and then some homeswitches etc
[14:45:58] <mrsun> CaptHindsight:
[15:04:44] * jthornton is beginning to hate nvidia
[15:05:34] <skunkworks> I have had a lot better luck with amd/ati...
[15:06:15] <jthornton> all I have handy is the onboard nvidia and a pcie nvidia...
[15:07:01] <evilren> okay so when i started building computers, amd procs, nvidia cards
[15:07:02] <jthornton> when I try and use the drivers X won't start
[15:07:13] <evilren> now im like, intel procs, ati cards
[15:07:15] <jthornton> on wheezy
[15:07:21] <evilren> still somehow amd wins
[15:12:21] <zeeshan|2> noveau drivers?
[15:12:49] <jthornton> I'm trying to install the nvidia drivers so I can get the correct screen resolution
[15:13:07] <zeeshan|2> nouvea should be able to do that for you
[15:13:22] <zeeshan|2> noveau
[15:13:29] <zeeshan|2> er........! nouveau
[15:13:33] <jthornton> is that the stock driver in wheezy
[15:13:38] <zeeshan|2> should be
[15:13:48] <zeeshan|2> when you do lspci -vv
[15:14:19] <zeeshan|2> kernerl driver in use: nouveau
[15:14:20] <zeeshan|2> ?
[15:14:44] <jthornton> Kernel driver in use: ohci_hcd
[15:14:49] <zeeshan|2> aw damn
[15:15:09] <jthornton> oh wait there are several kernel drivers
[15:15:18] <zeeshan|2> that is a usb driver :P
[15:16:56] <jthornton> http://pastebin.com/yQx4P6gz
[15:17:05] <jthornton> I can hardly read the terminal
[15:17:58] <jthornton> NVIDIA Corporation C61 [GeForce 6150SE is the video
[15:18:16] <mrsun> yes
[15:18:23] <mrsun> VGA controller
[15:18:59] <zeeshan|2> hm
[15:19:04] <zeeshan|2> looks like you have no driver for it
[15:19:18] <zeeshan|2> can you do apt-get install nouveau?
[15:19:43] <mrsun> what hapends ?
[15:19:47] <mrsun> x goes into vga mode ?
[15:19:54] <zeeshan|2> it must be in vesa prolly
[15:19:54] <mrsun> ahh x doesnt start P
[15:20:11] <zeeshan|2> after you do apt-get that line..
[15:20:14] <mrsun> jthornton: do you have a /etc/xorg.conf or similiar?
[15:20:18] <zeeshan|2> repaste lspci -vv again plz
[15:20:30] <jthornton> E: Unable to locate package nouveau
[15:20:36] <zeeshan|2> apt-get update
[15:20:50] <mrsun> find /etc -iname xorg.conf
[15:20:59] <jthornton> when I add xorg.conf file it won't boot much past picking the kernel
[15:21:01] <zeeshan|2> whoops
[15:21:06] <zeeshan|2> sudo apt-get install xserver-xorg-video-nouveau
[15:21:27] <jthornton> that is installed, I just looked
[15:21:31] <zeeshan|2> okay
[15:21:37] <zeeshan|2> nano xorg.conf
[15:21:49] <mrsun> jthornton: do you have the nvidia blob also installed ?
[15:21:59] <zeeshan|2> and make sure under "Devices" it says Identifier "nvidia"
[15:22:07] <zeeshan|2> and next line Driver "nouveau"
[15:22:18] <mrsun> jthornton: paste /var/log/Xorg.0.log =)
[15:22:34] <jthornton> I had to delete the xorg.conf file to get back here
[15:22:54] <mrsun> jthornton: try and start X then paste the log file to pastebin or something
[15:22:59] <jthornton> not sure what a nvidia blob is
[15:23:07] <jthornton> I have the nvidia drivers installed
[15:23:07] <mrsun> jthornton: nvidias properiery drivers
[15:23:24] <jthornton> https://packages.debian.org/sid/nvidia-legacy-304xx-driver
[15:23:42] <jthornton> says I need the legacy drivers for my video
[15:23:42] <mrsun> jthornton: can you paste your xorg. log?
[15:24:04] <mrsun> jthornton: nvidias legacy drivers are dodgy at best imo =)
[15:24:28] <mrsun> and if they are installed they get loaded before noveau or whatever .. uninstall the properiery driver and restart =)
[15:24:53] <jthornton> where is my xorg log?
[15:25:00] <mrsun> the legacy driver . .atleast on ubuntu etc only works with very specefic kernel versions etc
[15:25:11] <mrsun> jthornton: /var/log/Xorg.0.log it should be
[15:25:14] <mrsun> or something similiar =)
[15:26:30] <jthornton> http://pastebin.com/1zVMzFfh
[15:27:40] <jthornton> I'm stuck in spam guard and the code won't work
[15:27:56] <jthornton> anyway thanks for the help, I have to take of now for a while
[15:35:33] <zeeshan|2> anyone know if you can talk over rtu mode
[15:35:39] <zeeshan|2> and ascii mode over the same modbus network
[17:16:17] <Tom_itx> pcw_home, if i'm moving inputs that were tied directly to the fpga board i'll probably have to invert the signal going to the 7i84 right?
[17:17:27] <Tom_itx> the 7i84 has pulldowns on the inputs so limits running to GND likely won't work now...
[17:18:03] <Tom_itx> gonna try some rewiring tonight i think
[17:22:31] <Deejay> gn8
[18:45:37] <malcom2073> So friends wife asks me "Well... what will you use this mill for?" I couldn't answer her. She doesn't understand "brackets for other machines" or "cool stuff!". What do you all tell people who don't even know what a mill *is*, if they ask?
[18:45:55] <_methods> machine guns?
[18:46:09] <malcom2073> Haha I told her I would be machining an AR15 lower
[18:46:29] <archivist> I often have something I have made in a pocket
[18:46:30] <_methods> hehe
[18:46:44] <malcom2073> I've not made anything yet heh
[18:47:06] <Tom_itx> tell them you make things that make the world go round
[18:47:39] <Tom_itx> and that you are expanding your knowledge
[18:47:54] <malcom2073> She really wanted a concrete example that she could understand, of what it could actually do by way of an example
[18:48:16] <malcom2073> She didn't know what a mill was, I had to explain it was like a drill, but could cut sideways
[18:48:18] <syyl_> make her something
[18:48:23] <syyl_> and let her watch
[18:48:38] <syyl_> i did that with my girlfriend and we both hat great fun
[18:48:43] <malcom2073> syyl_: I plan on it, she wants a batman symbol cutout of 1/4" aluminum
[18:48:50] <malcom2073> but that's very... easy
[18:48:57] <malcom2073> NOt a really good example of what milling does
[18:49:30] <syyl_> https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/24396704/pro_ring_damast_15.JPG
[18:49:39] <syyl_> i did the left ring while she was in the shop
[18:51:07] <Rab> malcom2073, make it a contoured relief.
[18:51:48] <malcom2073> Rab: She wanted a cutout, but I expect once I do that she'll want more hah
[19:54:14] <PetefromTn_> evening folks
[20:02:46] <Tom_itx> hey
[20:03:21] <PetefromTn_> hey tom howsitgoin
[20:10:51] <PetefromTn_> Well I managed to sell a bunch of different items on the fleabay and picked up some cash from the part time job I have been working at so I can maybe start purchasing items for the CNC lathe build.
[20:11:58] <PetefromTn_> I am trying to decide what parts I want to get first. I kinda want to get the spindle motor and the ballscrew ordered so I can maybe actually use the lathe sorta manually while I get the control working. maybe...LOL
[20:13:46] <zeeshan|2> what kind of ball screws are you thinking of getting
[20:14:14] <PetefromTn_> probably can only afford ones from LInearmotionbearings..
[20:14:22] <PetefromTn_> this screw is rather large..
[20:14:34] <PetefromTn_> I just need the Z screw
[20:14:39] <zeeshan|2> diameter?
[20:15:51] <PetefromTn_> Well the largest he sells is 32mm I think
[20:16:57] <PetefromTn_> 1pc 3205-1600mm ballscrew with a double zero backlash ballnuts and end machined as both ends this is what he offered me for the specs I sent him Price was like $200.00 shipped
[20:21:29] <Tom_itx> just doing a bit of rewiring here
[20:21:39] <PetefromTn_> I should be able to find a suitable motor and get the ballscrew and possibly order some of the PC supplies with the cash I have the rest will have to wait until I can get a bit more cash or my tax return...
[20:43:01] <PetefromTn_> http://attachments.temcoindustrialpower.com/Data_sheet/World_Wide_Electric-WWHT5-18-184TC.pdf anyone know anything about these motors? There is a guy selling one brand new not terribly far from me.
[20:58:31] <PetefromTn_> http://www.driveswarehouse.com/p-2534-wj200-037lf.aspx nice hitachi makes a single phase input sensorless vector drive for 5hp.. reasonable price. If I did go with a 5hp on the lathe it would probably save me about $500.00 or more... Depending on the motor I get.
[21:08:35] <skunkworks> what is the spindle motor currently?
[21:09:38] <PetefromTn_> currently there is no spindle motor. but it came with a C frame type 7.5hp spindle motor as as option with a 5hp C frame type motor as standard equipment
[21:16:50] <zeeshan|2> thats rated for 3 ph input
[21:18:07] <PetefromTn_> oops yeah you are right. but there are other options at that price point.
[21:20:04] <zeeshan|2> yes
[21:30:49] <bobo_> PetefromTn what would you guess $ differance of 5 HP vfd 1 vers 3 phase input to be .
[21:31:38] <PetefromTn_> well for the name brands like Hitachi it is about $300.00 difference or so.
[21:32:43] <PetefromTn_> http://www.driveswarehouse.com/p-2536-wj200-075lf.aspx This drive would probably work for a single phase input running 5hp motor. even tho it is 3 phase.
[21:33:24] <PetefromTn_> http://www.driveswarehouse.com/p-2123-pc1-50.aspx this is single phase 5hp input
[21:33:25] <bobo_> interesting thanks
[21:34:12] <PetefromTn_> http://www.ebay.com/itm/181559186612?_trksid=p2055119.m1438.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT then there is the one Zeeshan is using which has single phase input up to 5hp
[21:35:08] <PetefromTn_> There are also quite a few newer Chinese offerings on ebay that will run 5hp motors on single phase input.
[21:37:28] <PetefromTn_> I have been kinda leaving it up to the motor I find for the best prices. IF I happen to find a 7.5hp motor that fits my machines specs for a great price I will grab it and get the appropriate vfd but if I happen upon a great deal on a 5hp I will just grab that and try to probably get another Hitachi or Teco vfd.
[21:39:04] <bobo_> was looking at www.dialog5.com -Wessler's project , where (I think ) he used external cap bank to get around #phase input limit
[21:39:47] <bobo_> Wessley's project
[21:41:02] <PetefromTn_> not sure what you mean. My Cincinatti Arrow 500 has a 10hp motor and I run it on single phase input daily...
[21:41:49] <bobo_> also used a pre-charge circuit for inrush limiting
[21:43:14] <Tom_itx> mmm new spindle encoder is working
[21:43:22] <Tom_itx> need to figure out the index pulse
[21:43:45] <PetefromTn_> Tom_itx Nice man. What did you change on the encodr?
[21:44:04] <Tom_itx> went from a 48 count to a 2000 count with index
[21:44:27] <PetefromTn_> is it an off the shelf encoder or something you built from scratch?
[21:44:42] <Tom_itx> off the ... used equipment
[21:45:18] <Tom_itx> pretty small
[21:45:26] <Tom_itx> but just right for the mill
[21:45:38] <PetefromTn_> what did you need the additional counts for? or just the index
[21:45:41] <bobo_> just thinking if 3phase only was cheep vers pricer 1 phase than might be something to consider
[21:45:55] <Tom_itx> http://tom-itx.no-ip.biz:81/~webpage/cnc/new_pulleys/spindle_enc6.jpg
[21:46:17] <PetefromTn_> the larger 3 phase input drives can be used you just need to double the size compared to the motor usually..
[21:46:18] <Tom_itx> i was after the index mostly but added res won't hurt anything
[21:47:03] <PetefromTn_> sure
[21:47:14] <PetefromTn_> you going to try rigid tapping with it or something?
[21:47:54] <Tom_itx> never can tell :)
[21:48:14] <PetefromTn_> heh
[21:59:27] <bobo_> Pete was wondering what the AC inrush amps are on the Cincinatti are at inital turn on
[22:00:01] <PetefromTn_> no idea but I run the entire machine on a 60 amp breaker and have never popped it yet
[22:02:17] <PetefromTn_> and actually ran a 1/2 inch endmill recently full depth thru 3/4 inch 6061 plate on accident and it slowed it down a touch but it never stopped... Scared the shit out of me hehe... that was at 4500 RPM and about 30 IPM... I cut the stock to the wrong length in my program and the cutter should have been just taking a little off the end hehe
[22:03:19] <bobo_> Chips bruse the paint?
[22:03:50] <PetefromTn_> what paint?
[22:04:27] <bobo_> paint inside machine
[22:04:53] <PetefromTn_> naah I got lucky with this machine the paint in the entire enclosure is in great shape.
[22:05:44] <bobo_> need bigger dof.
[22:06:17] <PetefromTn_> when I got it there was a TON of gunky stuck on coolant and chips glued all over it even on the outside but some good degreaser took care of that and now it looks really good inside and out.
[22:06:25] <PetefromTn_> dof?
[22:10:05] <bobo_> deeper depth of feed -----some people aren't happy unless chips are chiping paint off the bosses mach
[22:11:20] <PetefromTn_> Oh depth of cut. yeah I think that was PLENTY deep LOL. It was supposed to be a sort of full depth peel milling around the outside of the material working its way in until it leaved a finish pass of .01 of the actual part.
[22:18:28] <bobo_> Pete did you get a chcnce to look at the watch outide ring the garage journal guy was asking for quotes on ?
[22:20:31] <bobo_> have heard that watch is of 304 stainless material
[22:21:10] <PetefromTn_> no not really I was not aware he was wanting quotes. I thought you just wanted me to see what he was making. Besides I doubt I would be competitively priced for a one off part like that in stainless
[22:21:37] <PetefromTn_> http://www.observationsblog.com/sciencetechnologyexperiments/anodizing-and-dying-aluminum-without-battery-acid interesing..
[22:24:24] <bobo_> with your artistic eye , might be worth considering make them of alum and anodizie
[22:33:15] <PetefromTn_> right now I just put a tentative bid in on a run of 200 smaller parts customer is supposed to be meeting with me sometime this week. This is a good previous customer so I am hoping it works out. IF it does I may be able to pay for all of the conversion of the lathe without having to wait for my tax return LOL...
[22:39:58] <bobo_> hope you don't get to having to keep the kids in the shop vers in school
[22:53:15] <PetefromTn_> not sure what you mean... kids are off school tomorrow anyways
[23:23:09] <bobo_> saw sequence of photos where a guy had his daughter in a baby carier hung in front of a VMC ----later she had a stick to push the cycle start button