#linuxcnc | Logs for 2015-01-17

[00:01:38] <PetefromTn_andro> Hey man
[00:03:33] <furrywolf> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j2OD-dV7j_I how about new pop?
[00:04:32] <PetefromTn_andro> That's Brendan guys the Andchat login. He's in New Zealand and has never been on an irc before. He's driving somewhere now but will be popping in here for help with the conversion soon
[00:05:25] <bobo_> what conversion ?
[00:06:32] <PetefromTn_andro> He has the same Cincinnati Arrow 500 Vertical machining centre like I have and is using mesanet cards and teco drivers and motors like me too.
[00:06:49] <Tom_itx> does his tool changer work?
[00:07:01] <PetefromTn_andro> He's just getting started
[00:07:15] <Tom_itx> oh, i thought he was helping you
[00:07:33] <bobo_> all the more reason for a spare hard drive
[00:07:44] <PetefromTn_andro> He has got a lot of the electronic stuff installed and is getting ready to start powering stuff up
[00:07:53] <Tom_itx> bobo_ i keep several of those as spare
[00:08:08] <PetefromTn_andro> No I have been trying to help him actually
[00:08:18] <furrywolf> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0Z9LHR4iF6w more metal. and now it's time for me to head off to bed.
[00:08:20] <bobo_> tom loan one to pete
[00:08:31] <Tom_itx> what for?
[00:09:16] <Tom_itx> i just got cheap adapters too so i can go back and forth from sata to pata with any of em
[00:09:36] <PetefromTn_andro> Pete can get his own thanks heh
[00:10:27] <Tom_itx> i've got a couple MFM in the drawer backed up with a bunch of crap i'll never use again too :D
[00:10:50] <PetefromTn_andro> Hopefully between his machine and mine and the helpful information here we can both get the machine working fully
[00:11:35] <Tom_itx> i got my new cards installed finally
[00:11:43] <PetefromTn_andro> What cards
[00:11:56] <Tom_itx> 7i90 7i47 7i84
[00:12:17] <bobo_> this is going to be a good-night
[00:12:20] <PetefromTn_andro> Wow what do you need all those for?
[00:12:29] <Tom_itx> http://tom-itx.no-ip.biz:81/~webpage/cnc/psu/7i90_1.jpg
[00:12:39] <Tom_itx> don't wanna run outta IO
[00:12:52] <Tom_itx> 2 spare headers on the 7i90
[00:12:55] <PetefromTn_andro> Hehe
[00:12:57] <zeeshan_> man
[00:13:01] <zeeshan_> this is SCARY
[00:13:09] <zeeshan_> i have a jack under the Z table
[00:13:13] <PetefromTn_andro> Yup LOL
[00:13:14] <furrywolf> bbl, sleep
[00:13:18] <zeeshan_> Furry
[00:13:19] <zeeshan_> NO!
[00:13:23] <zeeshan_> YOU CANT GO
[00:15:58] <zeeshan_> how the heck do i disable the brake
[00:16:00] <zeeshan_> in pnc conf!
[00:16:21] <Tom_itx> carefully
[00:16:36] <Tom_itx> block the axis up
[00:16:45] <zeeshan_> its blocked
[00:16:57] <zeeshan_> i need to verify that when i press + in pncconf
[00:17:01] <zeeshan_> it moves in the correct direction
[00:17:08] <zeeshan_> table should go down
[00:17:17] <zeeshan_> and encounder count should be positive
[00:17:27] <zeeshan_> but i dont see an option in pncconf to disable brake
[00:17:29] <PetefromTn_andro> http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=QfZzkhfz89c. Cool mellow
[00:19:28] <PetefromTn_andro> When I enable the servos the brake disengage
[00:20:01] <PetefromTn_andro> http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=hyr5WdrEvGI
[00:20:07] <zeeshan_> how did yous et that up
[00:20:08] <zeeshan_> er
[00:20:11] <zeeshan_> yours is through hardware
[00:20:46] <roycroft> http://eugene.craigslist.org/tls/4850359469.html
[00:20:54] <roycroft> there's a rockwell hardness tester there for $150
[00:21:00] <roycroft> kind of hard to tell the condition from the little picture
[00:21:06] <roycroft> worth checking out?
[00:21:42] <PetefromTn_andro> Yeah mine works with the servos enable from the mesa cards to the drivers
[00:23:02] <PetefromTn_andro> Sounds like they have some machine tooling too
[00:23:35] <roycroft> it looks like there is some tooling
[00:23:40] <roycroft> it's a bit of a drive
[00:23:41] <PetefromTn_andro> It's only worth checking out if you need one
[00:23:44] <zeeshan_> correct me if im wrong
[00:23:47] <zeeshan_> but im moving the table up..
[00:23:49] <roycroft> not too far, but it's getting up in the foothills
[00:23:56] <zeeshan_> but my encoder count is reading +
[00:24:03] <zeeshan_> this is incorrect right
[00:24:06] <zeeshan_> cause it should be reading -.
[00:24:10] <roycroft> i don't necessarily need one, but if i had one i would occasionally use it
[00:24:11] <zeeshan_> cause the tool is going down
[00:24:14] <roycroft> and if the price is right ...
[00:24:23] <roycroft> $150 is a pretty good price
[00:24:50] <roycroft> if it's in decent shape i could even clean it up and flip it
[00:24:50] <PetefromTn_andro> Yeah it sounds like it should be going negative
[00:25:34] <zeeshan_> okay when i press + for jog
[00:25:37] <zeeshan_> table goes down now
[00:25:40] <zeeshan_> and encoder reads positive
[00:25:46] <zeeshan_> meaning tool is going up
[00:26:12] <PetefromTn_andro> Okay
[00:26:17] <PetefromTn_andro> Sounds good
[00:26:18] <zeeshan_> glad thats over
[00:26:20] <zeeshan_> haha
[00:26:30] <bobo_> neg is tool into work
[00:26:34] <PetefromTn_andro> So you have table movement
[00:26:39] <zeeshan_> i crashed it into the wood
[00:26:42] <zeeshan_> thats on a jack
[00:26:46] <zeeshan_> it lifted the whole machine up
[00:26:53] <zeeshan_> whoops
[00:27:00] <zeeshan_> yes pete
[00:27:05] <zeeshan_> now need to figure out how to disable brake
[00:27:07] <zeeshan_> and start tuning Z
[00:27:14] <PetefromTn_andro> Awesome
[00:31:28] <PetefromTn_andro> Well I am getting tired gonna get to sleep guys. Take it easy..
[00:36:01] <zeeshan_> gnite
[01:08:56] <zeeshan_> Z axis tuned
[01:08:57] <zeeshan_> hooray!
[01:32:57] <bobo_> zeeshan; is this now considered to be the "Hi World " condition ?
[01:58:51] <zeeshan_> bobo yes
[02:19:51] <Deejay> moin
[04:41:04] <zeeshan> pcw_home: can my tune for Z axis be more improved? http://i.imgur.com/oNsPhiu.png i keep getting joint errors even with 0.003 feed error max and 0.010 rapid error max
[05:50:29] <Loetmichel> mornin'
[05:51:15] <Loetmichel> ah, btw: did i mentoin that i was gifted with som thsirts by one of my co-worker with my "standard phrases" on them? -> http://www.cyrom.org/palbum/main.php?g2_itemId=15547
[05:51:15] <Loetmichel> "erst sortieren dann reden" -> sort your thoughts fist, THEN talk...
[05:51:15] <Loetmichel> i have a few others, "das hat der newton da festgenagelt" -> newton nailed that down
[05:51:15] <Loetmichel> "[front] der fruehe Vogel... [back] kriegt eins in die fresse wenn er nicht die klappe haelt" -> The early bird ... gets some if he isnt quiet now!
[05:51:15] <Loetmichel> "augenmass laesst gruessen" -> eye measurement sends greetings [...havent seen it for a while, have you?]
[06:03:15] <robin_sz> morning
[06:04:29] <robin_sz> my c is not working today
[06:05:16] <robin_sz> foo_t *bar[] = { &first_foo, &second_foo } is correct for an array of pointers to structures of type foo_t right?
[06:25:27] * archivist waves a copy of K&R, do you mean * which is a pointer or & which is the address of an object
[06:35:40] <robin_sz> http://pastebin.com/qECDbnbi
[06:35:48] <robin_sz> doing my head in
[06:37:55] <archivist> I think the first looks right
[06:38:24] <robin_sz> yes, but it uses shit loads of memory
[06:38:37] <robin_sz> like, 2K or something by the time I am done
[06:39:16] <robin_sz> first part works fine
[06:40:07] <robin_sz> im just trying to convert the array to just be pointers, not copies
[06:45:33] <archivist> the second does not appear to use the pointer address right, int *pa pa=&a[0] sets pa to point at the 0th element of a
[06:45:58] * archivist very rusty too
[06:47:14] <archivist> or would that be Crusty
[06:47:52] <robin_sz> so *ps ps=&someStruct should be correct for setting ps as a pointer to a struct then
[06:48:31] <robin_sz> or rather some_struct_t *ps;
[06:52:05] <archivist> I think so
[06:53:28] <robin_sz> so is that assignment not right then in my code? the { &foo, &bar, &baz} should assign the addresses of the structs into that variable columns
[06:53:55] <robin_sz> C99 supports variable length arrays
[06:54:21] <robin_sz> it even supports them inside structs, but you have to make them the last item in the struct :)
[06:55:08] <robin_sz> so im not really sure whats supposed to be wrong with that assignment
[06:55:46] <archivist> I would add some debugging to understand
[06:56:05] <robin_sz> yeah, tried that, the debugger on the target just shows an array full of junk
[06:56:58] <archivist> I mean coded prints of values and addresses so you can compare with array addresses
[06:57:10] <robin_sz> prints?
[06:57:39] <archivist> some method of seeing the real address/values
[06:57:49] <robin_sz> only way is via JTAG
[06:58:35] <archivist> you seem to be making a menu, I would write/printf to that screen
[06:58:41] <robin_sz> its an embedded thing with a LCD
[06:59:07] <robin_sz> but I have full debug access and variabel inspection via JTAG
[07:01:00] <robin_sz> I'll poke around some more ...
[07:01:01] <archivist> like test variables to hold values addresses for various coding methods, chose one with the right numbers
[07:01:34] <robin_sz> yeah, when you have easy ways to see output etc it helps
[07:03:08] <robin_sz> JTAG debug is pretty awesome on embedded these days, nice easy visual inspection and modification of variables, set breakpoints, watch vars etc
[07:03:21] <robin_sz> just my C sucks :)
[07:03:37] <archivist> never played with jtag yet
[07:04:07] <archivist> I am more used to assembler in embedded :)
[07:05:06] <robin_sz> too ahrd for me
[07:05:35] <archivist> it does what it says on the tin
[07:06:35] <archivist> no hidden optimisations unless you are using a dumb M$ assembler
[07:11:16] <robin_sz> bit too hard for me though to build stuff
[07:11:39] <robin_sz> ive done simple embedded stuff in assmembler before
[07:11:52] <robin_sz> I did a remote control for a TV manufacturer once
[07:12:31] <archivist> a pointer to a struct plus the struct has to use more than the right size structures methinks
[07:13:05] <robin_sz> but this would be way too hard .. i2c stuff talking to a DSP, USB to a PC, RS485 networking ...
[07:13:46] <archivist> I was making single device objects like http://www.collection.archivist.info/searchv13.php?searchstr=electronics+clock
[07:14:07] <archivist> PIC chips with hardly any memory
[07:15:34] <robin_sz> yeah, I did some pic stuff back inthe day
[07:15:52] <robin_sz> the tv remote was 6803 I think
[07:16:09] <robin_sz> 256 bytes of ram or something
[07:16:46] <robin_sz> this AVR is 2K of ram, so I can't spare any for useless copies of the menu
[07:17:33] <robin_sz> something weird here ...
[07:17:39] <archivist> is the menu all in rom?
[07:17:51] <robin_sz> yes
[07:18:00] <robin_sz> so I made two arrays
[07:18:01] <robin_sz> menu_stack_t columns[GUI_MAX_MENU_IDX + 1];
[07:18:01] <robin_sz> menu_stack_t *colp[GUI_MAX_MENU_IDX + 1];
[07:18:04] <archivist> I would just be using the rom addresses
[07:19:01] <robin_sz> then in the prog I have
[07:19:11] <robin_sz> columns[0] = logoMenu; <- seems to be fine
[07:19:17] <jthornton> I guess it is time to upgrade this computer to 2.7 and Wheezy so I can get a newer version of Geany
[07:19:25] <robin_sz> colp[0]=&logoMenu;
[07:19:39] <robin_sz> should in theory just hold a pointer to the same thing, right?
[07:19:59] <archivist> colp[0]=&logoMenu; seems right
[07:20:25] <robin_sz> except columns[0] and colp[0] now hold completely different stuff
[07:21:41] <archivist> columns[0] = logoMenu; is a copy colp[0] should be a pointer to original in rom
[07:23:10] <robin_sz> right, but the structure is different ...
[07:24:22] <robin_sz> no, wait, its fine
[07:24:30] <robin_sz> and evne the function pointer is fine
[07:24:39] <robin_sz> OK, so that works :)
[07:26:11] <robin_sz> I'll get there in the end ...
[07:26:17] <archivist> slow starting cfl lamp :)
[07:26:46] <robin_sz> I guess modern stuff is LED?
[07:26:56] <archivist> yup
[07:27:06] <robin_sz> i bought a 100W led once
[07:27:09] <robin_sz> or was it 50
[07:27:12] <robin_sz> whatver
[07:27:14] <robin_sz> useless
[07:27:29] <robin_sz> I wanted it for a load of light over a bench
[07:27:47] <robin_sz> it lit the bench fine
[07:27:53] <archivist> some are just too contrasty
[07:28:23] <robin_sz> but I kept getting semi-persistent retinal burns from brief glances at the fucker
[07:28:52] <robin_sz> glance ... oh good, a dark spot in my eye for the next 10 minute
[07:29:01] <robin_sz> had to go
[07:29:27] <robin_sz> was lovely having all that light over the SMT inspection bench though
[07:31:03] <archivist> I am using the 5w ones but hiding them out of direct sight if possible one behind under the microscope http://www.collection.archivist.info/archive/DJCPD/PD/2014/2014_09_07_Lorch_lathe/IMG_1823.JPG
[07:32:48] <archivist> although it got moved when I found a proper side screw hole in the body http://www.collection.archivist.info/archive/DJCPD/PD/2014/2014_11_23_kitchen_space/IMG_1854.JPG
[07:40:36] <jthornton> the 2.7 wheezy dvd boots up on this computer but my monitor resolution is not correct...
[08:37:56] <jthornton> wow 9.9 GB of stuff to copy off this box before the install
[08:46:38] <jthornton> well here comes 2.7... hope to see you soon
[09:38:01] <jthornton> well I had to do apt-get update to find xchat but I'm back now
[09:38:48] <jthornton> still can't get 1920x1080 on the monitor...
[09:39:42] <jthornton> is it possible to get mate from a computer on my LAN... I'm low on download bandwidth
[09:40:27] <malcom2073> You should set up a local repository cache... but I don't know if it's possible to grab it without having previously saved the packages
[09:40:49] <mozmck> Is the other computer runny wheezy?
[09:40:54] <jthornton> unsure what a local repository cache is
[09:40:55] <jthornton> yes
[09:41:46] <mozmck> if synaptic is not set up to delete packages, then they should be in /var/cache/apt/archives
[09:42:09] <jthornton> I'll look in a few minutes when I go to the shop
[09:42:37] <mozmck> You can copy all the packages from that directory to the same directory on the new computer, and then run synaptic and install.
[09:42:48] <jthornton> ok, thanks
[09:42:48] <mozmck> It should tell you how much it has to download before it starts.
[09:43:53] <mozmck> Looks like the default setting in synaptic on wheezy is "Only delete packages which are no longer available", so I bet you'll still have them.
[09:51:45] <archivist> "Only delete packages which are no longer available" so when support dies you lose your backup!
[09:51:48] <JT-Shop> and they are all in /var/cache/apt/archives
[09:52:10] <archivist> I looked in my archives on this box, empty
[09:56:09] <Tom_itx> JT-Shop, what machine are you converting to 2.7?
[09:56:35] <Tom_itx> real hardware or a test machine?
[09:57:12] <Tom_itx> http://tom-itx.no-ip.biz:81/~webpage/cnc/psu/7I90_2.jpg
[09:57:15] <JT-Shop> the one in the beer cave I do programming and the docs on
[09:57:18] <Tom_itx> getting my new boards installed
[09:57:26] <Tom_itx> oh
[09:57:44] <JT-Shop> nice
[09:58:04] <Tom_itx> it looks the same but probably 1/3 of the wires are different
[09:58:28] <Tom_itx> with the boards on din rail instead of standoffs now
[09:58:41] <JT-Shop> I got my G code generator for lathe roughing working with lines and arcs now
[09:58:49] <Tom_itx> nice one
[09:59:11] <JT-Shop> I just need to stitch the two parts together
[09:59:27] <Tom_itx> you seem to like tackling some of the toughest things
[09:59:56] <JT-Shop> challenges the old gray matter you know
[10:00:29] <PetefromTn_> JT-Shop When you say stitch the two together are you talking about adding it to that NCCGUI thing or whatever it is called?
[10:00:37] <JT-Shop> funny thing I now understand how trig works on right angle triangles
[10:01:10] <JT-Shop> next is to make a stand alone python program to spit out the G code
[10:01:41] <JT-Shop> I'm not sure how it might work with ngcgui but it can work with Axis
[10:02:28] <JT-Shop> open it up from axis add the details like tool, DOC RPM SFM and the path to follow and bam it sends the G code right to Axis
[10:02:55] <JT-Shop> or you can save it to a file
[10:03:05] <Tom_itx> good stuff
[10:03:37] * JT-Shop goes to walk the dog
[10:04:31] <PetefromTn_> sweet
[10:38:55] <Sairon> hmm
[10:40:53] <PetefromTn_> hrmm
[10:42:05] <Sairon> trig
[10:42:08] <Sairon> oi
[10:44:50] <Sairon> still waking up
[10:44:55] <Sairon> drinking coffee, etc
[10:45:06] <Sairon> i'm useless until 2-3 cups of coffee
[10:45:25] <Tom_itx> add vodka
[10:45:45] <Sairon> prolly vomit
[10:45:56] <Sairon> i rarely drink alcohol
[10:46:08] <Tom_itx> me too anymore
[10:47:02] <PetefromTn_> and even if I did drink alcohol it sure as hell would not be vodka hehe
[10:47:36] <Sairon> true
[10:47:45] <Sairon> i pretty much stick to scotch
[10:50:13] <archivist> I stick to free
[10:50:36] <PetefromTn_> I like chocolate milk
[10:50:42] <PetefromTn_> ;)
[10:51:25] <archivist> my last free beer was middle of last year
[10:52:23] <Sairon> i've got johnny walker
[10:52:28] <Sairon> around here, somewhere
[10:52:31] <Sairon> i dunno where
[10:52:51] <Sairon> how long does beer last in a fridge?
[10:52:54] <PetefromTn_> well let him out hehe
[10:53:10] <PetefromTn_> poor bastard
[10:53:31] <PetefromTn_> and isn't it supposed to be Sauron?
[10:53:48] <CaptHindsight> http://www.caswellplating.com/electroplating-anodizing/anodizing-products/anodizing-dyes.html do people really pay this much for anodize dyes?
[10:54:16] <PetefromTn_> http://img2.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20140109015046/lotr/images/f/f7/Sauron-e1348474315182.jpg
[10:54:54] <Sairon> eh
[10:54:55] <PetefromTn_> Ooh I like where this is going... does this mean you will be getting me a better deal on it hehe
[10:55:19] <CaptHindsight> "a 4oz bottle makes up 2 gals of ready to use dye."
[10:56:09] <PetefromTn_> I gotta pickup some 5 gallon buckets..
[10:56:16] <archivist> there is a profit margin! they may be related to a banker
[10:59:44] <CaptHindsight> just surprised by how much Caswell marks up the small bottles of dye mix for hobbyists
[11:00:45] <PetefromTn_> from the looks of it they mark up pretty much everything they sell no?
[11:01:33] <Sairon> isn't this generally true?
[11:02:22] <PetefromTn_> perhaps I should have added the word...handsomely?
[11:02:52] <CaptHindsight> never looked at them that closely
[11:03:23] <CaptHindsight> http://www.caswellplating.com/electroplating-anodizing/anodizing-products/anodizing-kits.html
[11:03:52] <archivist> larger qty http://www.fastcolours.com/anodising-dyes-320-c.asp
[11:04:05] <CaptHindsight> danimal had a great setup for low cost, then again he was near some guberment surplus site
[11:08:00] <CaptHindsight> do people really need premixed colors vs CMYK?
[11:08:17] * Loetmichel is pimping his saitek x52 :-) (on the screen is the mill cad for the buttons) -> http://www.cyrom.org/palbum/main.php?g2_itemId=15556&g2_imageViewsIndex=1
[11:08:56] <CaptHindsight> no longer taught in art class since there are no more art classes
[11:08:58] <Tom_itx> CaptHindsight, wonder where he's been
[11:09:34] <CaptHindsight> !seen danimal
[11:09:34] <the_wench> last seen in 2011-02-17 00:01:29, seems to have quit or joined and I dont have a message
[11:09:58] <CaptHindsight> almost 4 years
[11:11:17] <CaptHindsight> I don't have the link to his bike part website
[11:13:37] <Tom_itx> i don't think i do now either
[11:13:57] <PetefromTn_> jeez
[11:14:13] <PetefromTn_> my daughter's Samsung Galaxy Tablet is screwed up
[11:14:26] <PetefromTn_> it does not seem to want to charge now
[11:14:45] <PetefromTn_> and there is not a screw in sight to take it apart DOH!
[11:15:28] <PetefromTn_> the charging port is not working for some reason.
[11:15:42] <CaptHindsight> !seen Danimal_garage|2
[11:15:42] <the_wench> last seen in 2011-11-02 00:21:04GMT 838:59:59 ago, saying Read error: Connection reset by peer
[11:15:53] <CaptHindsight> !Danimal_garage
[11:16:07] <PetefromTn_> who is danimal?
[11:16:12] <CaptHindsight> !seen Danimal_garage
[11:16:12] <the_wench> last seen in 2012-01-11 09:51:07GMT 838:59:59 ago, saying Read error: Connection reset by peer
[11:17:20] <archivist> set me scan the log table that that came from
[11:17:37] <CaptHindsight> his youtube postings are also gone
[11:18:06] <CaptHindsight> was just doing that trying to find links to his website and videos
[11:18:30] <CaptHindsight> it's like he's been erased
[11:19:04] <archivist> ouch
[11:21:21] <CaptHindsight> did SWPadnos retire?
[11:22:43] <archivist> I think he got busy
[11:23:01] <archivist> or distracted
[11:23:45] <CaptHindsight> marriages, kids, lotteries tend to do that
[11:28:18] <CaptHindsight> PetefromTn_: too many steps with all water based dye https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QkbFqVZ-ee0
[11:28:48] <archivist> I get chucked at a yahoo login page trying to look at danimals pictures on flikr
[11:29:00] <PetefromTn_> whaddya mean?
[11:29:08] <CaptHindsight> archivist: have a link?
[11:29:32] <archivist> CaptHindsight, http://www.flickr.com/photos/66828621@N02/sets/72157628625354669/
[11:29:40] <CaptHindsight> PetefromTn_: for the multicolor splash effect
[11:30:04] <PetefromTn_> so you are saying that with solvent based dyes it is easier..
[11:30:56] <CaptHindsight> even after login i get "This page is private.
[11:30:57] <CaptHindsight> Oops! You don't have permission to view this page."
[11:31:38] <CaptHindsight> PetefromTn_: when you combine solvent with water based you don't have to mask
[11:31:53] <PetefromTn_> yeah you said that. which sounds nice and helpful
[11:32:14] <CaptHindsight> solvent dye first, then water dye bath for the background
[11:32:33] <archivist> CaptHindsight, found another link, real name danial wilcox? http://smg.photobucket.com/user/danielwilcox/media/DSCN0797.jpg.html
[11:32:38] <CaptHindsight> the solvent dye is the mask for the water dye
[11:32:55] <CaptHindsight> hey thats him
[11:33:34] <CaptHindsight> http://www.homebrewedcomponents.com/ but his site is blank
[11:34:16] <archivist> yup I get search type spam on that
[11:34:31] <CaptHindsight> http://smg.photobucket.com/user/danielwilcox/library/wheeling%20trip%20january%202012?sort=3&page=1
[11:34:45] <CaptHindsight> seems to be the latest
[11:34:50] <CaptHindsight> from 2012
[11:36:11] <archivist> and this dates things too https://homebrewedcomponents.wordpress.com/
[11:43:42] <CaptHindsight> http://forums.mtbr.com/singlespeed/homebrewed-components-undelivered-orders-831133-3.html
[11:44:02] <PetefromTn_> you mentioned you spray the solvent dyes on what kinda setup did you use? Was it pretty thinned out or what?
[11:46:43] <CaptHindsight> looks like he fell way behind on his production and then disappeared
[11:47:12] <CaptHindsight> PetefromTn_: you can use an airbrush or spraygun
[11:47:19] <PetefromTn_> damn that sucks for the people who ordered
[11:47:28] <PetefromTn_> thats nice I have both actually...
[11:47:35] <CaptHindsight> if you are using denatured alcohol then the viscosity is like water
[11:47:56] <PetefromTn_> might be easier to do a fade that way as well.
[11:50:18] <CaptHindsight> I didn't find any obits or listing on the DOC site
[11:50:56] <CaptHindsight> PetefromTn_: we print photos using inkjet with it
[11:52:32] <CaptHindsight> aircraft parts tend to be aluminum and anodized, text and graphics on cockpit controls as well
[11:53:26] <PetefromTn_> so you are printing inkjet on these aircraft parts that sound impressive
[11:54:00] <CaptHindsight> yes, photo res, just like your printer at home only in anodize
[11:54:14] <PetefromTn_> damn got any pics? sounds amazing
[11:54:19] <CaptHindsight> I have steel and copper parts as well
[11:54:36] <CaptHindsight> 10um aluminum plate then anodize
[11:59:27] <CaptHindsight> http://imagebin.ca/v/1oTlSGONUiis
[11:59:59] <CaptHindsight> http://imagebin.ca/v/1oTlcFphAKX0
[12:00:37] <CaptHindsight> http://imagebin.ca/v/1oTllJCVvoxK this one is black anodized cold roll
[12:01:21] <roycroft> how do you "print" the anodizing solutions?
[12:01:29] <CaptHindsight> inkjet
[12:01:32] <roycroft> what kind of inkjet printer?
[12:01:45] <CaptHindsight> 3-5 axis inkjet
[12:02:01] <CaptHindsight> http://imagebin.ca/v/1oTm86Idzj2M
[12:03:17] <roycroft> that could be useful technique for making control panels
[12:03:25] <PetefromTn_> wow man that is some impressive colorations LOL
[12:04:03] <roycroft> it would probably be slower than anodizing the panel blank then engraving, though
[12:04:17] <CaptHindsight> roycroft: yes, since the colors are in the metal vs on it
[12:04:29] <CaptHindsight> http://imagebin.ca/v/1oTmvk942zbL
[12:05:47] <CaptHindsight> anodize, print, seal
[12:06:37] <CaptHindsight> you can print a 12 x 12" area at >600 dpi in seconds
[12:07:12] <CaptHindsight> we have printheads now that print at 1200 dpi at >2 meters per second
[12:07:38] <CaptHindsight> ~6.5" swath per head
[12:08:49] <Tom_itx> buckets of ink
[12:08:52] <t12> whats typical inkjet driplet volune now?
[12:08:59] <t12> a few pl?
[12:09:30] <CaptHindsight> in the 20-30pl range
[12:10:10] <t12> i have a thing where
[12:10:31] <t12> i need to deposit <3um dia droplets
[12:10:35] <CaptHindsight> most black tij cartridges are ~25pL
[12:10:38] <t12> into wells on a grid
[12:10:58] <t12> likely will end up doing spincoat and scrape or something
[12:11:13] <t12> maybe could inkjet it but 1pl is too big eveb
[12:11:16] <t12> even
[12:11:30] <CaptHindsight> 1pL is the smallest off the shelf drop volume, we build our own below that drop volume
[12:11:43] <t12> is it hard to do
[12:11:49] <t12> build them i mean
[12:12:05] <SpeedEvil> CaptHindsight: Oh - be fair. Cartridges are more than 25pL. They're at least typically 250uL.
[12:12:05] <t12> do they perform reliably
[12:12:14] <CaptHindsight> t12: how many drops, what kind of spacing, how fast what materials etc etc?
[12:12:51] <t12> 4.5 um c2c grid, need to deposit to bottom of 3um wells
[12:13:05] <t12> uhh like 10-20million
[12:13:15] <CaptHindsight> Black canon, HP and lexmark are ~25pL
[12:13:32] <t12> the structure is a bit more complicated than im describibg
[12:13:44] <t12> its onto fused silica i believe
[12:13:49] <CaptHindsight> t12: i build printers for apps like that
[12:14:00] <t12> commercial or academic?
[12:14:07] <CaptHindsight> I can go sub-micron as well
[12:14:13] <CaptHindsight> commercial
[12:14:25] <t12> whereabouts?
[12:15:02] <CaptHindsight> US and China
[12:15:28] <t12> can you work on nre?
[12:15:38] <CaptHindsight> http://imtech-or.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/03/IS411web.pdf hp45 spec
[12:15:47] <CaptHindsight> sure
[12:17:04] <t12> depending on how various approaches to this pan out, we'll need help in this field
[12:18:12] <t12> got gear around to do a trial run in that ballpark? or would a reasonable test mean building new stuff
[12:18:17] <CaptHindsight> t12: http://imagebin.ca/v/1oTqtSVpudl4 this one holds 5um with <10um drops into <10um deep groves in anodize
[12:19:30] <CaptHindsight> t12: depends on what's in the lab at the time, but I'd have to know more about the material that needs to be deposited and the surface geometry
[12:20:08] <t12> ill write something up describing what were trying to do
[12:20:20] <t12> thanks!
[12:21:11] <CaptHindsight> ^^ that one is for a large silicon valley "fruit" company
[12:21:21] <t12> hahah
[12:21:35] <t12> got a method for registration?
[12:22:11] <t12> i guess that could always be done by offset microscope
[12:22:13] <Jymmmm> CaptHindsight: Bananaware LLC
[12:22:42] <CaptHindsight> we use computer vision with microscopes and lasers to monitor position
[12:23:04] <t12> sweet
[12:23:14] <t12> ok breakfast ends! gotta go
[12:23:17] <CaptHindsight> so deposition onto non-planar surfaces is not a problem
[12:23:31] <CaptHindsight> you just need line of sight nozzle to substrate
[12:30:26] <Sairon> hmm
[12:30:34] <Sairon> sounds like i missed something interesting
[12:30:38] <Sairon> whatcha coating?
[12:34:08] <robin_sz> so, who is good with C then?
[12:34:18] <Sairon> define good
[12:34:23] <Sairon> #define good
[12:34:31] <robin_sz> better than my half-assed attempts
[12:34:35] <LeelooMinai> #define good bad
[12:34:40] <Sairon> ha
[12:34:59] <Sairon> i used to be kinda good
[12:35:21] <LeelooMinai> Now you are God-like:)
[12:35:42] <robin_sz> menu_stack_t foo[6]; <- shoudl create a block of memory 6 x sizeof(menu_stack_t) wide right?
[12:35:53] <robin_sz> and ...
[12:36:13] <LeelooMinai> It's an array, yes
[12:36:38] <robin_sz> menu_stack_t *bar[6]; shoudl be an array of pointers to some structs, so should just use 6 ints worth right?
[12:37:16] <LeelooMinai> Depend on the architecture - may be 1, 2 ,4 or 8 or for bytes per pointer
[12:37:24] <robin_sz> yes,
[12:37:26] <robin_sz> that.
[12:37:47] <archivist> and are you defining types which create no space just the typedef
[12:40:11] <robin_sz> yeah,
[12:40:33] <robin_sz> so I decided to just try creating the array of pointer .. 6 of them
[12:40:34] <LeelooMinai> robin_sz: Also, if you are not sure what declaration means, try this: http://cdecl.org/
[12:40:46] <robin_sz> and it used 4K of memory
[12:41:32] <LeelooMinai> How do you know it used 4K of memory?
[12:46:09] <robin_sz> how, because in the compiler output it tells me the amoutn of flash, ram and eeprom used by the binary
[12:46:50] <Sairon> hmm...
[12:46:52] <Sairon> yeah, well
[12:47:07] <Sairon> trying to compare the c code to effects on compiled binaries
[12:47:10] <Sairon> is dicey
[12:47:11] <LeelooMinai> This is pobably what linker did - it may have a setting for block granulity of 4K or something to that
[12:47:18] <LeelooMinai> like*
[12:47:25] <Sairon> modern compilers do some wild stuff
[12:47:34] <Sairon> aligned on word size?
[12:47:40] <LeelooMinai> You may need to look at the details of the linking process, check available switches, etc.
[12:48:43] <LeelooMinai> Or it may be malloc requiring minimum RAM to operate
[12:49:10] <LeelooMinai> It needs some initial overhead to setup heap. So if it is your first variable, it will jumpt to this minimum.
[12:49:11] <archivist> are you defining the arrays in ram or is it trying to put it in rom
[12:49:50] <LeelooMinai> robin_sz: Try adding variable of size that is twice that, then size that will exceed 4K and see what happens.
[12:49:55] <archivist> brain dead compiler if it cannot use embedded device ram properly
[12:50:24] <LeelooMinai> archivist: It's not really the compiler - probably just malloc code.
[12:50:49] <LeelooMinai> archivist: May have heap block set to 4K by default
[12:50:50] <archivist> I have seen no evidence he is using malloc at all
[12:51:02] <archivist> this is in an avr
[12:51:05] <LeelooMinai> Well, I don't know how he is allocationg it.
[12:51:20] <Sairon> archivist - maybe not right compiler switches
[12:51:34] <archivist> likely
[12:51:54] <Sairon> i can write c code
[12:51:58] <Sairon> compiler stuff, eh
[12:52:06] <Sairon> i've never done embedded
[12:52:39] <archivist> some embedded is very tight on memory
[12:53:14] <LeelooMinai> If you have, say, 128 bytes of RAM, yes:)
[12:53:36] <archivist> that much!
[12:54:00] <LeelooMinai> I remember I had this much on some old msp430 project
[12:54:21] <LeelooMinai> Then upgraded to 256 bytes:)
[12:55:14] <LeelooMinai> But where is the person who actually asked the question...
[12:55:28] <Sairon> heh
[12:56:35] <archivist> from earlier <robin_sz> this AVR is 2K of ram, so I can't spare any for useless copies of the menu
[12:57:07] <LeelooMinai> I wonder how he ended up with 4K ram then:)
[12:57:23] <archivist> or total 4k
[13:12:43] <robin_sz> archivist, the actual target hardware uses a Atmega32x thing, 2K ram. but it only loads program via ISP and has no JTAG debug, due to shortage of pins, so I test and develop on a slightly larger processor on a dev board and then when its looking good, load it onto the target hardware, the dev board has 8K of ram, and actually, the compiler will happily compile 100s of K and then warn you "RAM used: 235K (595% full)"
[13:13:22] <robin_sz> the dev board has JTAG, so it makes it easier to debug
[13:14:13] <robin_sz> you get a memory useage report in the compiler output
[13:17:09] <robin_sz> its GCC by the way, works just great for AVR
[13:48:14] <zeeshan> hi
[13:53:27] <zeeshan> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nC4mcTdwJ_U
[13:53:28] <zeeshan> :-)
[13:57:16] <TekniQue> zeeshan: this machine has steppers, correct?
[13:57:22] <zeeshan> no
[13:57:38] <TekniQue> ok what hardware is it then?
[13:57:54] <zeeshan> amc servo drives and siemens servos
[13:58:01] <TekniQue> cool
[13:58:44] <CaptHindsight> you have it jogging! \0/
[13:59:01] <zeeshan> yessir
[13:59:04] <zeeshan> im trying to get the error less
[13:59:12] <zeeshan> i dont know what else to do
[13:59:24] <zeeshan> ive only changed P and FF1
[13:59:30] <zeeshan> http://i.imgur.com/oNsPhiu.png
[13:59:48] <zeeshan> you can see where my curosor is its reading 0.0001 error
[13:59:56] <zeeshan> but there are spikes
[13:59:59] <zeeshan> which cause fault outs
[14:03:18] <jthornton> is it possible to copy the files from another computer in /var/cache/apt/archives over the LAN?
[14:03:37] <zeeshan> jthornton: i dont see why not
[14:03:42] <zeeshan> if you set the right chmod
[14:03:59] <jthornton> I can only see the home folder from here
[14:05:43] <skunkworks> zeeshan: what ended up being the brake problem?
[14:05:54] <zeeshan> skunkworks: i honestly didnt find a problem
[14:05:57] <zeeshan> i think it was user error
[14:06:05] <zeeshan> this brake needs +24vdc one way on the solenoid
[14:06:22] <zeeshan> to engage, and then reverse polarity to disengage
[14:06:32] <zeeshan> but if there is power loss, it stays in whatever state it was last
[14:06:52] <zeeshan> it scares me a bit because if 24VDC power is lost, and the brake isn't engaged
[14:06:59] <zeeshan> its gonna remain in free mode.
[14:07:38] <SpeedEvil> All you need is a 24V battery
[14:07:50] <SpeedEvil> What current does the brake draw?
[14:07:54] <pcw_home> The original 24VDC power supply probably had a huge filter capacitor
[14:08:25] <SpeedEvil> 5s*24v*2A or whatever isn't a whole heap of power
[14:08:42] <SpeedEvil> s/power/energy/
[14:08:43] <zeeshan> SpeedEvil: 1amp
[14:08:44] <pcw_home> 100 ms is probably enough
[14:08:54] <SpeedEvil> oh - the brake locks on?
[14:08:58] <zeeshan> yea
[14:09:03] <zeeshan> its like a switch.
[14:09:07] <pcw_home> just enough to engage the brake
[14:09:08] <SpeedEvil> yeah - then 100,200ms is likely fine
[14:09:09] <zeeshan> it stays in whatrever position you told it last to
[14:09:24] <zeeshan> so i need to put a big ass capaictor in parallel with the brake?
[14:09:24] <SpeedEvil> It has a 'lock' and 'unlock' winding?
[14:09:32] <zeeshan> SpeedEvil: it seems that way
[14:09:38] <zeeshan> i dont know what it looks like internally
[14:09:41] <zeeshan> just its behaviour
[14:09:52] <SpeedEvil> just detect power fail, and apply power from a cap to lock
[14:09:57] <SpeedEvil> and you're pretty much done then
[14:10:36] <CaptHindsight> zeeshan: can you add a spring to the solenoid to make it park when the power is removed?
[14:10:41] <SpeedEvil> 1A/100ms - if you want 2V drop, you need .05F
[14:10:44] <zeeshan> CaptHindsight: nahh its internal
[14:11:19] <zeeshan> non polarized cap?
[14:11:26] <zeeshan> cause im switching polarity on the solenoid.
[14:11:44] <pcw_home> this is the 24V power supply cap
[14:11:46] <CaptHindsight> flux capacitor
[14:12:01] <zeeshan> pcw_home: what stops the other things from robbing the charge
[14:12:04] <zeeshan> on shutdown
[14:12:25] <pcw_home> because everything else is off
[14:12:51] <zeeshan> 7i77 field power is consuming some
[14:13:00] <zeeshan> contactor solenoids are consuming like 1amp too
[14:13:01] <pcw_home> 30 ma maybe
[14:13:10] <zeeshan> lemme post diagram
[14:13:21] <pcw_home> contactors should be off
[14:13:43] <zeeshan> http://i.imgur.com/53NcsqE.png
[14:14:03] <zeeshan> contactors are normally closed
[14:14:49] <zeeshan> my default state of those brake solenoids is "brake on"
[14:15:03] <pcw_home> umm what contactors must be off if 24V is lost
[14:15:03] <zeeshan> could i not just put a capacitor across the entire Z brake rung
[14:15:17] <pcw_home> too messy
[14:15:45] <pcw_home> if you have a power fail you should go into estop
[14:15:58] <pcw_home> immediately
[14:16:08] <zeeshan> i was relying on the fact that on power loss
[14:16:17] <zeeshan> there would be no power to the contactor solenoids
[14:16:32] <pcw_home> and you should have enough 24V hold up to apply the brake
[14:17:34] <zeeshan> well i dont know how to wire that
[14:17:43] <zeeshan> :)
[14:17:48] <zeeshan> ill figure it out
[14:18:27] <pcw_home> are the contators latched so the dont go back on again after power is restored?
[14:18:38] <zeeshan> yes they are latched
[14:18:43] <zeeshan> they're normally off
[14:18:55] <zeeshan> if there is a wire cut, or e-stop button breaks or whatever
[14:19:02] <zeeshan> it'll cut the power to them
[14:19:34] <pcw_home> so you could include a 7i77 output driven relay in the chain
[14:20:08] <pcw_home> so linuxcnc can force a estop
[14:20:36] <zeeshan> ill need to buy another relay
[14:20:44] <zeeshan> already used my spare for this dual relay brake setup
[14:21:04] <zeeshan> but yea that makes sense
[14:21:19] <zeeshan> on amp_enable
[14:21:35] <zeeshan> or something related to e-stop
[14:21:38] <zeeshan> ill latch that output
[14:21:51] <zeeshan> can't do on amp_enable :)
[14:21:56] <pcw_home> if you want a separate capacitor for the brake you can use a diode to isolate it from the main 24V supply
[14:22:10] <zeeshan> pcw_home: i'd feel much better doing that
[14:22:23] <zeeshan> have its own isolated circuit
[14:23:25] <zeeshan> pcw_home: can i improve on my tune?
[14:23:32] <zeeshan> i tried playing with FF2
[14:23:40] <zeeshan> it even a 0.001 of it made things worse
[14:23:54] <pcw_home> FF2 is usually very small
[14:24:42] <zeeshan> i ocasionally get a joint error regardless of im using continuous feed thing in linuxcnc. 0.003 feed error max and 0.010 rapid error max for each axis
[14:25:18] <zeeshan> http://i.imgur.com/oNsPhiu.png <- thats what tune looks like on average
[14:25:33] <pcw_home> what axis to you get errors on?
[14:25:40] <pcw_home> do you
[14:25:42] <zeeshan> X and Z only
[14:25:47] <zeeshan> Y is nice and smooth..
[14:25:52] <zeeshan> it doesnt have those weird spikes
[14:26:21] <zeeshan> X and Z are both related to table
[14:26:25] <zeeshan> Y is the ram moving
[14:26:34] <pcw_home> you might tune the drives velocity gain again
[14:26:58] <zeeshan> how close to i need t obe to oscillation
[14:27:03] <zeeshan> *do
[14:27:22] <pcw_home> maybe 30% below
[14:27:27] <zeeshan> im already there
[14:27:33] <zeeshan> i hit oscillation
[14:27:38] <zeeshan> and then i backed off 1 full turn.
[14:27:44] <zeeshan> there are 12 full turns
[14:28:05] <pcw_home> Z looks like its oscillating
[14:29:09] <zeeshan> ah i mgiht need to zoom in more.
[14:29:23] <zeeshan> i just noticed something, the f-error almost has a beat in it
[14:29:35] <pcw_home> but it may be too much P term
[14:29:37] <pcw_home> also look for mechanical problems
[14:30:00] <zeeshan> im gonna clean the ways more
[14:30:03] <zeeshan> and lubricate them better
[14:30:26] <zeeshan> you notice how you get that initial spike?
[14:30:43] <zeeshan> and about 1 time division later you see another spike inverse to it
[14:30:44] <pcw_home> with linear scale feedback only, any backlash or spring (worn or loose belts) is an issue
[14:31:22] <zeeshan> well i measured backlash before i put the servos on
[14:31:37] <zeeshan> for X only (cause i cant move Z by hand, it was too much work)
[14:31:42] <pcw_home> timing belt drive?
[14:31:45] <zeeshan> and i wasn't getting anything on the tenths indicator
[14:31:47] <zeeshan> yes timing belt drive
[14:31:59] <pcw_home> belts tight?
[14:32:15] <zeeshan> they feel tight to me!
[14:32:21] <zeeshan> i can't make them come off if i pull on them
[14:32:44] <zeeshan> they could be tighter though
[14:32:58] <jthornton> logger[mah], log
[14:32:59] <logger[mah]> jthornton: Log stored at http://linuxcnc.mah.priv.at/irc/%23linuxcnc/2015-01-17.html
[14:33:51] <zeeshan> pcw_home: can i try integral gain?
[14:34:06] <zeeshan> to battle that stiction
[14:34:18] <pcw_home> you can but usually its not needed on velocity mode drives
[14:34:50] <zeeshan> im gonna try to tighten the belts more
[14:34:53] <pcw_home> and doesn't help stiction much (because its slow to react)
[14:35:08] <zeeshan> if i hook up a dial indicator
[14:35:17] <zeeshan> and turn the servo back and forth. and notice no backlash
[14:35:20] <zeeshan> then it is not a belt problem right?
[14:35:31] <pcw_home> you might try a longer Z move to see what that beat is all about
[14:35:46] <zeeshan> ok will do
[14:35:58] <zeeshan> i really appreciate all the hellp, i'd be lost
[14:36:03] <zeeshan> still am lost :-)
[14:36:15] <pcw_home> no, backlash wont show up that way (it will if the encoders are on the motor)
[14:36:42] <zeeshan> im measuring backlash with an indicator
[14:36:45] <zeeshan> not the encoder
[14:37:09] <pcw_home> backlash is how far you can move the motor shaft without moving the linear axis
[14:37:33] <zeeshan> yuea so ill turn the motor shaft by hand in one direction
[14:37:44] <zeeshan> and then move it in another direction with indicator hooked up to the linear axis
[14:37:55] <pcw_home> yeah
[14:38:11] <zeeshan> i'm trying to figure out belts being not tight induces backlash?
[14:38:26] <zeeshan> that's what you were thinking might be causing problems?
[14:38:40] <zeeshan> im gonna try this.brb
[14:40:00] <pcw_home> any spring between the motor and the linear axis will make tuning "more interesting"
[15:00:19] <CaptHindsight> zeeshan: is that mill belt driven?
[15:00:33] <CaptHindsight> the XYZ?
[15:05:03] <zeeshan> CaptHindsight: yes
[15:05:18] <zeeshan> pcw_home: there is spring.
[15:05:53] <zeeshan> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SWHBPKuyc_g
[15:06:09] <zeeshan> you can see that im moving the pulley that much
[15:06:19] <zeeshan> but there is no movement registered on a tenths indicator
[15:07:41] <zeeshan> the machine uses htd belts
[15:11:03] <zeeshan> i dunno how to get rid of this backlash in the drive system?
[15:11:04] <zeeshan> :P
[15:11:14] * zeeshan will try tensioning the belts
[15:11:20] <CaptHindsight> the pulley appears to be moving more than the screw, but it's hard to see in the video
[15:11:28] <zeeshan> CaptHindsight: that is exactly it
[15:11:31] <zeeshan> pulleys move i'd say..
[15:11:39] <zeeshan> 5-8 degrees
[15:11:44] <CaptHindsight> how is the pulley attached to the screw?
[15:11:47] <zeeshan> but no indication on linear axis.
[15:11:57] <zeeshan> CaptHindsight: i can feel the belt stretching
[15:12:03] <CaptHindsight> it's not belt tension
[15:12:05] <zeeshan> when i move the pulley
[15:12:18] <zeeshan> CaptHindsight: they're keyed on
[15:12:28] <CaptHindsight> well it might be that as well but you have more than one issue
[15:12:28] <zeeshan> with some sort of lock nut too
[15:13:13] <CaptHindsight> but the pulley is moving more than the screw, so there is play between the pulley and the screw
[15:13:56] <CaptHindsight> sounds like too thin a key if there is play
[15:14:09] <zeeshan> i dont think its the pulley attached to the shaft
[15:14:14] <zeeshan> i can see the screw moving too
[15:14:24] <zeeshan> it might be stiction
[15:14:35] <CaptHindsight> is the dial indicator moving at all?
[15:14:38] <zeeshan> no
[15:14:47] <zeeshan> oh.
[15:14:53] <zeeshan> the WHOLE screw
[15:14:56] <zeeshan> could be moving axially
[15:15:05] <zeeshan> at the bearing supports
[15:15:06] <CaptHindsight> is the pulley rotating the same amount as the screw?
[15:15:09] <zeeshan> i need to check that.
[15:15:19] <zeeshan> no
[15:15:23] <zeeshan> theyre opposite
[15:15:50] <zeeshan> im gonna check axial movement
[15:15:55] <CaptHindsight> the pulley and screw should turn as they are one solid rigid part
[15:16:15] <CaptHindsight> how are the ends of the ballscrew fixed?
[15:16:27] <JT-Shop> well I guess I need to find a different video card for the wheezy in the beer cave nvidia sucks
[15:26:12] <Loetmichel2> *HA* that works surprisingly well... now i have to wire that to the base and put the x52 back together ;-) -> http://www.cyrom.org/palbum/main.php?g2_itemId=15559&g2_imageViewsIndex=1
[15:28:05] <zeeshan> CaptHindsight: youre right
[15:28:09] <zeeshan> it is a combination.
[15:28:22] <zeeshan> the whole screw moves axially by 0.0004"
[15:28:42] <zeeshan> but before i can register any movement on the end play dial indicator, i can notice
[15:29:01] <zeeshan> the belt trying to tighten from one side and loosening from the other side
[15:29:08] <zeeshan> its quite noticeable
[15:29:18] <CaptHindsight> you need to tighten things up
[15:29:23] <zeeshan> i mean its normal for one side to have more tension than the other, but it shouldnt move that much
[15:31:25] <CaptHindsight> zeeshan: no it should be tight, like a timing belt for camshafts
[15:31:36] <zeeshan> i agree
[15:31:36] <CaptHindsight> any play and the timing is off
[15:31:44] <zeeshan> but im saying if you measure the forces in the belt
[15:31:51] <zeeshan> you'll always find that it doesnt have equal tension on both sides
[15:31:55] <zeeshan> thats just the nature of the beast
[15:31:56] <CaptHindsight> and the mill moves CW and CCW
[15:32:41] <pcw_home> is the belt old or has it been replaced?
[15:32:52] <zeeshan> its what came with the machine
[15:33:19] <CaptHindsight> your play/lash will always be as much as the amount of stretch in the belt +/- any ratios in gearing/ screws etc
[15:33:37] <zeeshan> yea CaptHindsight
[15:34:18] <zeeshan> i don't see an apparent way to tension these belts.
[15:34:19] <CaptHindsight> how far apart are the pulleys from the screws and motors?
[15:34:20] <zeeshan> other than moving the motor
[15:34:25] <pcw_home> the scale/servo will fix most things but play/spring messes up dynamic performance
[15:34:47] <mrsun> hm i dont get it with these mesa cards .. what kind of driver do you use for a servo motor for example in conjunction with them ? if you get the encoder feedback to the pc insted of the drive directly getting it ?
[15:34:50] <zeeshan> capt about 12"
[15:35:23] <pcw_home> depends on the drive, analog, PWM, step/dir are options
[15:36:50] <mrsun> its a jungle.. :/ realy all i want is to even tho i have a self containing drive ..give the encoder feedback to linuxcnc ... as if i start losing position and the drive errors out ..linuxcnc doesnt know at all even then where the heck the machine is
[15:36:57] <mrsun> the encoder has to go back into the pc system
[15:37:23] <mrsun> be it mesa card .. or some kind of direct feedback using a parport or whatever =)
[15:38:45] <zeeshan> i must be retarded
[15:38:53] <zeeshan> or mikron is
[15:38:57] <zeeshan> there is no way to tension the belts?
[15:39:14] <zeeshan> theyre relying on the free play on the bolt holes for the servo motor mounts.
[15:39:20] <CaptHindsight> no tension pulley?
[15:39:57] <zeeshan> oh
[15:40:02] <CaptHindsight> will your servo motor bearings handle that radial load?
[15:40:12] <zeeshan> CaptHindsight: i dont see why not
[15:40:14] <zeeshan> theyre beefy as hell
[15:40:25] <CaptHindsight> good
[15:40:40] <zeeshan> i wonder if the pulley has an eccentric built into it
[15:40:43] <zeeshan> which allows for tensioning
[15:40:54] <CaptHindsight> sounds like it like tightening an alternator on a small block chevy
[15:41:10] <zeeshan> my chevy motor has a proper tensioner
[15:41:11] <CaptHindsight> pry bar and tighten when uner tension :)
[15:41:14] <zeeshan> LOL
[15:41:29] <CaptHindsight> fancy you
[15:41:52] <CaptHindsight> now your mill needs one :)
[15:43:07] <pcw_home> mrsun: if you want to check a step motor system for stalling you can use a low res encoder read from a parallel port
[15:43:09] <pcw_home> and check if the (scaled) positions are within a error band
[15:44:14] <pcw_home> dont the belt specifications include a working tension?
[15:44:33] <zeeshan> they must
[15:44:35] <zeeshan> its a standard htd belt
[15:44:41] <zeeshan> i can tell its not tensioned
[15:44:50] <zeeshan> i dont need to measure it! :P
[15:44:54] <mrsun> pcw_home: well the drive will check for stalling realy ... and error out .. problem is that when there is no feedback directly to linuxcnc ... say for a very exaerated scenario it stalls cause its 0.5mm it couldnt move .. so when linuxcnc gets the error its already at 1.5mm .. but the actual move has only gone 1mm ... so when restarting everything will be 0.5mm off =)
[15:45:37] <zeeshan> net axis.2.amp-enable-out hm2_5i25.7i77.........output01 hm2_5i25.7i77.........output03
[15:45:42] <mrsun> so even tho the drive gets the feedback it would be nice if linuxcnc got the same positional feedback =)
[15:45:43] <zeeshan> currently im disabling the brake like this.
[15:45:54] <zeeshan> when put output01 and output03 are active, brake is off.
[15:46:00] <pcw_home> mrsun: well get a servo (you can tell from zeeshan how much fun it is)
[15:46:04] <CaptHindsight> zeeshan: the tensioner will take lots of play out of the belt, but you still need to capture the ballscrew ends properly
[15:46:10] <zeeshan> mrsun: dont do it!
[15:46:16] <mrsun> zeeshan: haha =)
[15:46:29] <Jymmmm> mrsun: DO IT!!! DO IT!!! DO IT!!!
[15:46:31] <zeeshan> CaptHindsight: i can live with 4 tenths error
[15:46:35] <zeeshan> :D
[15:46:42] <mrsun> tho rehoming isnt a big deal .. as long as stuff didnt go all the crap to hell when cutting :P
[15:46:44] <CaptHindsight> http://machinedesign.com/linear-motion/importance-ballscrew-end-fixity
[15:47:19] <zeeshan> CaptHindsight: remember this baby has absolute encoders
[15:47:42] <CaptHindsight> zeeshan: yeah but your 4 tenths as measured are under what load and for how long with it just be 4 tenths
[15:47:46] <mrsun> zeeshan: whats wrong with servo systems then ? =)
[15:47:54] <pcw_home> Not unexpected to have some mechanical issues on a what? 25 year old machine
[15:47:58] <zeeshan> mrsun: coming from building a stepper machine
[15:48:06] <mrsun> zeeshan: hehe =)
[15:48:11] <zeeshan> servo is a huge learning leap
[15:48:15] <zeeshan> a _huge|_
[15:48:26] <zeeshan> and i have control system background
[15:48:32] <zeeshan> from school
[15:48:51] <mrsun> been looking at servero motors etc but i dont get it how to tie it together with linuxcnc as it seems that all drives i find for servos has internal encoder feedback . so i guess one would end up at the same problem as a closed loop stepper ... linuxcnc dont have a clue whats going on anyways :P
[15:49:16] <zeeshan> they should have internal encoder feedback
[15:49:26] <ejnc> it's not that hard to wire the encoder signals to linuxcnc
[15:49:33] <zeeshan> you need that info to control the velocity loop i think.
[15:50:02] <zeeshan> mrsun: put that same signal in parallel to the 7i77 encoder inputs
[15:50:05] <mrsun> so you let the encoder signals go to the driver AND linuxcnc ?
[15:50:12] <ejnc> yes
[15:50:20] <mrsun> ahh that simplifies it a bit then i guess =)
[15:50:35] <zeeshan> pcw_home: you are right it is expected to have some mechanical issues :)
[15:50:37] <zeeshan> i'm not complaining
[15:50:44] <zeeshan> im suprised Y is mint
[15:50:53] <zeeshan> its within 0.0005 error during rapid
[15:51:02] <ejnc> The PID setup in the driver can be not-that-tight, and tune up in linuxcnc PID. This way bypasses two tight PID resonances
[15:51:09] <CaptHindsight> mrsun: I have some servo setup where the encoder signal go back to the servo amp/drive as well as the Mesa card
[15:51:18] <mrsun> 7i77 io card right ?
[15:51:25] <pcw_home> most drives that have local feedback can output encoder/simulated encoder signals to the controller
[15:51:29] <zeeshan> don't belittle it by calling it an io card!
[15:51:30] <zeeshan> :p
[15:51:31] <zeeshan> its more
[15:51:31] <ejnc> I have that setup with 7i43
[15:51:41] <mrsun> saw it now .. servo/io card
[15:51:47] <CaptHindsight> some of the servo drive/amp have built in features that use the encoders and hall sensors
[15:52:01] <CaptHindsight> eben though the drive has analog 10V input
[15:52:17] <zeeshan> i bet you could run a car's efi engine with a 7i77
[15:52:18] <zeeshan> lol
[15:52:30] <ejnc> Guys... Have I understood correctly that in order to use index latching homing, I set home_latch_vel and use_index? And this should home the axis to the index signal (rising edge)?
[15:53:08] <zeeshan> ejnc: my advice about homing is
[15:53:11] <zeeshan> try a bunch of settings.
[15:53:18] <CaptHindsight> heh
[15:53:20] <zeeshan> just trigger the home switch manually
[15:53:27] <zeeshan> and see if it's doing what you're asking it to do.
[15:53:31] <mrsun> going to a 7i77 i could wire up my steppers to that insted of parport and get encoder feedback etc ?
[15:53:35] <ejnc> don't have a home switch
[15:53:44] <zeeshan> shared home/limit switch
[15:53:59] <zeeshan> mrsun: i think you'll want 7i76 for steppers
[15:54:03] <ejnc> don't have limit switch :)
[15:55:58] <mrsun> zeeshan: but that doesnt seem to have encoder feedback ports ?
[15:56:24] <zeeshan> oh youre right
[15:56:27] <zeeshan> 7i77 has enc inputs
[15:56:39] <zeeshan> do your stepper drivers need a 0-10v signal to run?
[15:56:52] <mrsun> no
[15:56:56] <mrsun> they want step/dir
[15:57:11] <zeeshan> well the 7i77 is an analog output card
[15:57:15] <zeeshan> it outputs 0-10v
[15:57:19] <zeeshan> -10 to 10v
[15:57:20] <zeeshan> i mean
[15:58:17] <zeeshan> i dont see a daughter card that does encoder inputs and step/dir
[15:58:45] <pcw_home> 7I85S
[15:59:50] <mrsun> so i need two mesa cards then ?
[15:59:52] <zeeshan> no
[15:59:55] <zeeshan> he just told you :P
[15:59:58] <zeeshan> 7i85s
[16:00:00] <mrsun> anyio card and 7I85S ?
[16:00:04] <zeeshan> yea.
[16:00:11] <zeeshan> 5i25 if you have a pci port
[16:00:15] <zeeshan> 6i25 if you have a pci-e port
[16:00:19] <mrsun> zeeshan: The 7I85S is a eight channel differential output plus four channel encoder interface
[16:00:19] <mrsun> for Mesas 25 pin Anything I/O series of FPGA interface cards.
[16:00:33] <mrsun> ahh ok
[16:00:35] <zeeshan> yea it says you can drive 4 step/dir outputs
[16:00:40] <zeeshan> and read 4 encoders
[16:00:50] <mrsun> well thats kinda exactly what i would need i guess =)
[16:01:21] <mrsun> so then i just rip out my parport breakout board, replace with 7I85S .. and put a 5i25 in my computer
[16:01:26] <mrsun> and a cable between
[16:03:28] <zeeshan> yep thats it
[16:04:08] <mrsun> 159usd for both cards ... thats not to bad
[16:04:17] <mrsun> for what one gets =)
[16:04:31] <zeeshan> mrsun: i used to think it wasn't needed
[16:04:39] <zeeshan> but they really are needed for a cnc mill
[16:04:53] <zeeshan> for an open loop stepper lathe, you wont need one
[16:05:12] <zeeshan> but if i could go back i would get one for my lathe too
[16:05:16] <zeeshan> cause it makes wiring so much nicer.
[16:05:18] <mrsun> atm my machine is open loop but im going to close the loop with new drives of some kind and motors with encoders
[16:05:25] <zeeshan> and allows you to have tons more i/o.
[16:08:57] <mrsun> bit 7i85S has no inputs ?
[16:09:00] <mrsun> but
[16:09:05] <mrsun> only output card ?
[16:09:17] <mrsun> more then encoder inputs ofc
[16:09:27] <zeeshan> lol
[16:09:29] <zeeshan> i didnt sdee that
[16:09:31] <zeeshan> yea it has no i/o.
[16:10:26] <pcw_home> One option is to use a standard breakout on the other 5i25/6i25 connector
[16:10:58] <pcw_home> or if you have a lot of I/O, add a 7I84 or 7I66-8
[16:11:39] <mrsun> not that much but limit switches etc .. but i guess they can still be on ordenary parport breakout ...
[16:11:39] <pcw_home> (the 7I85S has one serial expansion connector for I/O daughtercards)
[16:11:49] <mrsun> hmm
[16:12:33] <mrsun> so you can just wack another card in there? =)
[16:12:34] <Jymmmm> pcw_home: How much I/O does the secure wireless card have?
[16:13:04] <pcw_home> and if you dont need all 4 axis or index inputs, they can be used for TTL level inputs
[16:14:16] <pcw_home> so say you have 3 axis but no index's, then you have 6 spare inputs
[16:14:34] <pcw_home> 3 axis of encoders I mean
[16:14:52] <pcw_home> Jymmmm: wireless?
[16:15:12] <mrsun> ye on this machine there will be only 3 axises ... this is just research right now tho but in the future i want to upgrade .. or i build a new machine :P
[16:15:35] <zeeshan> can someone recommend the best way to do this procedure. when axis.2.amp-enable-out TRUE, i want to make output1 and output3 both true for 5 seconds, after which i want output3 to be false.
[16:15:43] <zeeshan> do i need a subroutine or something
[16:15:52] <Jymmmm> pcw_home: Yeah, then no wiring/cabling to anything is eliminated, Oh, and unicorns really do exist ;)
[16:15:52] <zeeshan> or can i use the time component
[16:16:25] <pcw_home> wireless is somewhat useless for real time
[16:17:03] <Jymmmm> pcw_home: wireless, as between PS and unit, unit, and motors, unit and encoder, lights, switches, etc
[16:17:21] <zeeshan> http://i.imgur.com/vpKu6Lh.gif
[16:17:27] <zeeshan> this is me when someone says "servo" now
[16:17:32] <pcw_home> Teslas dream
[16:17:42] <Jymmmm> pcw_home: EXACTLY!
[16:17:58] <Jymmmm> zeeshan: awww, that's cute =)
[16:18:12] <zeeshan> hehe
[16:18:17] <pcw_home> great if you like being irradiated :-)
[16:18:51] <pcw_home> zeeshan oneshot comp?
[16:18:57] <mrsun> zeeshan: haha
[16:19:01] <mrsun> zeeshan: servo!
[16:19:05] <zeeshan> O_O
[16:19:23] <Jymmmm> pcw_home: nonsense.... he proved wireless electricity way back when
[16:21:05] <pcw_home> yeah and had enough energy going around to slowly fry everything it its path
[16:21:17] <pcw_home> bad idea
[16:22:33] <zeeshan> pcw_home: hahah
[16:23:00] <Jymmmm> pcw_home: http://theoatmeal.com/comics/tesla
[16:24:40] <pcw_home> Its fun to play with Tesla coils and light Flourescent lamps across the room
[16:24:42] <pcw_home> Would I want that running close to me 24/7? umm no...
[16:26:04] <Jymmmm> pcw_home: Then disable every RF generating device in a 10 mile square away =)
[16:26:15] <Jymmmm> area*
[16:27:12] <zeeshan> https://www.flickr.com/photos/128539016@N05/15344207707/
[16:27:17] <zeeshan> there is NO way to tension this belt!!!!
[16:28:05] <SpeedEvil> add an idler?
[16:28:53] <CaptHindsight> I see some places to easily add one
[16:29:27] <CaptHindsight> at least it is a timing belt
[16:30:12] <malcom2073> So here's a weird issue. I have a 600CFM 8 inch fan. This fan is in a square tube. Because of the nature of the fan, and the tube only being about 24 inches long, all the air flows around the outside of the tube, and near none in the center (where I happen to have heating coils). What's the best way to even out the airflow?
[16:30:22] <malcom2073> Weird/random/unrelated to anything linuxcnc :P
[16:31:33] <pcw_home> Jymmmm: I dont mind the uwatts from radio transmitters, If theres enough RF 24/7 to light even a LED, its time to move
[16:31:56] <SpeedEvil> malcom2073: add baffles in the tube
[16:37:41] <malcom2073> Baffles was the word I was looking for, did some googling, I guess just vertical strips of metal in the tube to help redirect/interrupt flow a bit would work at the cost of a bit of flow, but I got more than enough flow
[16:37:49] <malcom2073> Thanks SpeedEvil
[16:38:21] <zeeshan> pcw_home: oneshot looks close to what i want to do
[16:38:48] <zeeshan> http://pastebin.com/ze4XCCBB
[16:39:12] <SpeedEvil> I'd suggest perhaps crossways square plates, with square holes in the middle - little more than the diameter of the coils
[16:39:16] <zeeshan> it'll make both those outputs true for 5 seconds,
[16:39:21] <zeeshan> but itll turn both of them off after 5 =P
[16:39:22] <Deejay> gn8
[16:39:25] <zeeshan> only wanna turn one off
[16:39:55] <zeeshan> this would be so much easier with if statements :)
[16:40:19] <malcom2073> SpeedEvil: The coils are probably 80% the width and height of the tube, but the fan REALLY blows air around just the outside, it's an odd fan
[16:41:30] <malcom2073> But that could work, just an interior wall the whole way around, stopping the air from going around the outside
[16:41:42] <malcom2073> you think more than one of these would be beneficial, one closer to the fan, then one closer to the coils?
[16:43:50] <Jymmm> pcw_home: Oh, so i guess I shouldn't invite you the next tie I take a 4ft flouresent bulb up to a 50KW transmitter and watch that sucker glow with no wires?
[16:44:24] <malcom2073> Man I wish I had a brake
[16:44:29] <pcw_home> thats fine, i dont want to live next to a 50KW tranmitter
[16:44:39] <malcom2073> I could make some simple 90 degree aluminum flaps and screw them into the inside of the tube heh
[16:46:00] <SpeedEvil> A brake?
[16:46:06] <SpeedEvil> For aluminium strips?
[16:46:26] <SpeedEvil> A vice, and three moments with a bit of wood and a hammer
[16:46:54] <malcom2073> I do have a vice, but I've not mounted it to my table yet
[16:47:28] <malcom2073> I should drill some hole sin my table (1-1/4" mdf countertop type table) do that tomorrow
[16:47:40] <malcom2073> But yeah, I get like 18 gauge, I could clamp it and bent/hammer it to shape
[16:47:53] <Loetmichel> soo, now just a bit of wiring in the base to do, then it shoudn be working fine... -> http://www.cyrom.org/palbum/main.php?g2_itemId=15562&g2_imageViewsIndex=1
[16:48:17] <zeeshan> wat is that loat
[16:48:20] <zeeshan> some sort of scanner?
[16:48:26] <zeeshan> er
[16:48:29] <zeeshan> joystick :P
[16:51:19] <Loetmichel> yes
[16:51:32] <Loetmichel> a yoystick with 6 buttons at the base
[16:51:42] <Loetmichel> wher you have to let go of the stick to use them
[16:51:53] <Loetmichel> so i "modified"
[16:52:06] <Loetmichel> http://www.cyrom.org/palbum/main.php?g2_itemId=15553
[16:52:22] <Loetmichel> http://www.cyrom.org/palbum/main.php?g2_itemId=15559
[17:23:21] <zeeshan> what is going on with this
[17:23:24] <zeeshan> loadrt oneshot count=1
[17:23:25] <zeeshan> setp oneshot.0.width 5
[17:23:39] <zeeshan> net z-enable => oneshot.0.in
[17:23:46] <zeeshan> when i trigger z-enable
[17:24:10] <zeeshan> and monitor oneshot.0.out and oneshot.0.time-left
[17:24:19] <zeeshan> time-left doesnt start counting down.
[17:31:48] <pcw_home> did you addf the oneshot comp to the servo thread
[17:31:53] <zeeshan> no
[17:32:04] <zeeshan> whoops
[17:34:19] <zeeshan> that worked
[17:34:19] <zeeshan> thank you
[17:36:50] <pcw_home> hal files could use a syntax checker for warning of RT functions not attached to a thread, single node nets etc
[17:37:25] <zeeshan> hehe
[17:37:31] <zeeshan> would help!
[17:38:10] <zeeshan> net oneshot.0.out => hm2_5i25.0.7i77.0.0.output-03
[17:38:16] <zeeshan> is there a way to get around this
[17:38:28] <zeeshan> wont work cause theyre both outputs
[17:39:02] <pcw_home> net foobar oneshot.0.out => hm2_5i25.0.7i77.0.0.output-03
[17:39:21] <pcw_home> net statements need signal names
[17:39:23] <zeeshan> ah
[17:39:55] <pcw_home> hm2_5i25.0.7i77.0.0.output-03 is an input (from the hal side of things)
[17:40:29] <zeeshan> while oneshot.0.out is an output
[17:40:30] <zeeshan> okay
[17:41:21] <pcw_home> I kind of wished the anonymous net name idea was implemented
[17:41:59] <pcw_home> (often you dont really need another signal name when just connecting pins)
[17:42:59] <zeeshan> yea i dont see why you need to specify a name in this instance
[17:43:43] <zeeshan> thisis kinda working one way
[17:43:51] <zeeshan> when enable the drive, it disables the relay after 5 sec
[17:43:59] <zeeshan> but when i disable the drive, it doesnt doanything
[17:44:01] <zeeshan> leaves everything off
[17:44:21] <zeeshan> ill leave it like this.
[17:44:22] <zeeshan> its safer
[17:44:39] <zeeshan> itll keep brake powered if amps are disabled
[17:46:15] <pcw_home> only thing is you might want to find out is if the brake is rated for continuous energization
[17:46:30] <zeeshan> there was no mention of this
[17:46:32] <zeeshan> at all in the manual
[17:46:47] <zeeshan> it just says "current must be passed to disable brake"
[17:47:40] <pcw_home> yeah and that sounds like they are talking about a standard "energize to release" brake
[17:48:03] <zeeshan> it might be safer to just keep the brake energized
[17:48:08] <zeeshan> for both disabling and enabling
[17:48:14] <zeeshan> rather than have no current passing through it at anygiven time
[17:48:30] <zeeshan> what if the brake decides to engage whileim rapiding for some reason
[17:48:40] <pcw_home> unless it burns up :-(
[17:48:55] <zeeshan> haha
[17:48:58] <zeeshan> it hasnt burned up yet!
[17:49:17] <zeeshan> poor thing getting abused
[17:49:37] <pcw_home> can you get to the brake to test its temperature?
[17:49:37] <zeeshan> i left the machine in machine power off state for about 6 hours yesterday night
[17:49:43] <zeeshan> brake was engaged the entire time
[17:49:49] <zeeshan> no
[17:49:56] <zeeshan> based on its location in the motor housing in the diagram
[17:50:04] <zeeshan> i touched around that area and it was not warm
[17:50:39] <pcw_home> OK so that sounds like it OK with continuous duty
[17:51:38] <zeeshan> this oneshot component will be so beneficial for lubrication
[17:52:06] <zeeshan> just need to keep looping it
[17:56:56] <JT-Shop> I find it easier to use classicladder to run my lube pump after x min of moving
[18:04:00] <Jymmm> Cutting clay draining pipe without cracking... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h0CjCHPkTp0
[18:04:08] <Jymmm> drainage
[18:11:30] <zeeshan> JT-Shop, havent used cl yet
[18:16:02] <Jymmm> Ok, I'm confused... Why would you NOT use cement on 4" pvc drain pipe joints? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hLhWbcl3o0g
[18:18:44] <DaViruz> seems he's got PE and PVC confused
[18:19:02] <DaViruz> PVC in the title, but he says PE and the description says PE
[18:19:36] <Jymmm> That doens't look like PE pipe, and I've only seen PVC and ABS pipe in the stores
[18:20:26] <Jymmm> But, PE can NOT be cemented, so that might explain it.
[18:20:40] <JT-Shop> zeeshan, you can set up a timer in CL pretty easy and monitor motion motion something or other so when your moving or running oil the ways and when your not moving don't
[18:20:48] * JT-Shop wanders inside
[18:22:15] <Jymmm> Hmmm, only CORRUGATED HDPE http://www.homedepot.com/p/Unbranded-4-in-x-10-ft-Corrugated-HDPE-Drain-Pipe-Solid-with-Bell-End-4540010/100212428
[18:32:08] <bobo_> Jymmm: down spout or sewer drain ?
[18:52:04] <zeeshan> pcw_home, hi
[18:54:56] <zeeshan> http://i.imgur.com/iStyYgt.png
[18:55:00] <zeeshan> X-axis.
[18:55:06] <zeeshan> no matter what i do, i cant get rid of that spike
[18:55:12] <zeeshan> tightening the belt helped.
[18:56:25] <zeeshan> there is always that 0.0015" spike in the begining
[18:56:31] <zeeshan> no matter if im at 200 ipm or 100 ipm
[18:57:24] <zeeshan> even there at 11 ipm
[18:58:29] <zeeshan> when i do it at 11 ipm, i can see its underdamped.
[18:59:32] <pcw_home> it may be still some backlash and stiction
[19:01:57] <pcw_home> try 2 moves in the same direction and only plot the second
[19:02:08] <zeeshan> how much ipm
[19:02:52] <pcw_home> maybe a bit slower since this is not velocity related
[19:03:14] <pcw_home> say 50 IPM
[19:07:05] <pcw_home> my guess is that that spike is because of stiction and backlash. The ferror spike is because there is no motion until about 20 ms
[19:07:06] <pcw_home> plotting the encoder velocity and zooming up on the start point will make it clearer
[19:07:22] <zeeshan> http://i.imgur.com/HyUd6DI.png
[19:10:08] <pcw_home> OK looks more like stiction
[19:10:50] <CaptHindsight> zeeshan: once you tighten that machine up mechanically it will be fine
[19:11:25] <archivist> stiction can mean too tight
[19:12:08] <CaptHindsight> he still has all that mechanical freeplay in his system
[19:12:15] <zeeshan> CaptHindsight, i fixed the belt
[19:12:22] <zeeshan> thats why the other spikes are gone
[19:12:23] <zeeshan> i think.
[19:12:28] <CaptHindsight> i was out the past 2-3 hours
[19:12:43] <zeeshan> i have a dial indicator hooked up at the end of the screw
[19:13:10] <zeeshan> im reading 0.0004 movement of screw
[19:13:31] <CaptHindsight> that like 10um!
[19:14:53] <archivist> any surface rust on the ways?
[19:14:58] <zeeshan> no
[19:15:00] <CaptHindsight> zeeshan: add a tensioner or pull the motor back more?
[19:15:04] <zeeshan> i lubed them really good.
[19:15:10] <zeeshan> CaptHindsight, pulled motor back more
[19:15:28] <pcw_home> correct way lube?
[19:15:32] <zeeshan> ofcourse
[19:15:33] <zeeshan> hehe
[19:15:44] <CaptHindsight> motors too weenie?
[19:15:46] <zeeshan> im gonna jog it back and forth a bunch
[19:15:52] <zeeshan> wear it in :)
[19:16:56] <CaptHindsight> can you turn the screw with an oz/in torque wrench?
[19:17:14] <zeeshan> no attachment point
[19:17:47] <pcw_home> things that may help (other then mechanical)
[19:17:48] <pcw_home> raise drive current limit all the way up
[19:17:50] <pcw_home> raise P (2 or even 4 KHz servo thread rate will possibly allow some more P)
[19:18:01] <CaptHindsight> how are the screws fixed at each end?
[19:18:06] <zeeshan> im not close to the ideal p
[19:18:16] <zeeshan> X is fixed on one end
[19:18:23] <archivist> I was about to ask if the drive current limit was still set low
[19:18:32] <zeeshan> CaptHindsight, that is only giving 0.0004"
[19:18:37] <zeeshan> im getting spikes of 2 thou
[19:18:45] <zeeshan> in ferror
[19:19:01] <zeeshan> drive current is set to what motor spec wanted
[19:19:16] <pcw_home> ummm no
[19:19:26] <zeeshan> not the peak
[19:19:29] <CaptHindsight> http://machinedesign.com/site-files/machinedesign.com/files/archive/motionsystemdesign.com/images/main-types894.jpg
[19:19:30] <zeeshan> but continuous
[19:19:44] <pcw_home> the drive needs to generate the peak current the motor needs
[19:19:53] <zeeshan> if it cant
[19:19:56] <archivist> that is too low, what pcw says
[19:20:04] <zeeshan> how can i get around it
[19:20:14] <zeeshan> slow the accel down?
[19:20:29] <pcw_home> current is all the way up?
[19:20:46] <zeeshan> current is set to 6.5A on the drive continuous.
[19:20:54] <zeeshan> which means 13A peak
[19:20:58] <pcw_home> thats wrong
[19:21:09] <zeeshan> motor name plate says 6.5A?
[19:21:10] <CaptHindsight> try it again at 13a
[19:21:14] <pcw_home> insufficient peak current
[19:21:37] <zeeshan> i cant change the peak current
[19:21:41] <zeeshan> its set as a ratio on these drives..
[19:21:51] <pcw_home> continuous really means nothing (just a thermal rating)
[19:21:54] <archivist> motors are happy with very high peak current
[19:22:26] <zeeshan> they have a s3 rating of 7.0A.
[19:22:50] <zeeshan> what im gonna do is
[19:22:56] <zeeshan> set it to 8A
[19:22:58] <zeeshan> and see if it make sa diff.
[19:23:02] <zeeshan> will it throw the tune off?
[19:23:07] <pcw_home> so a _minimum _of 21 A peak
[19:23:53] <zeeshan> so these drives suck
[19:23:54] <zeeshan> lol
[19:24:08] <pcw_home> The drives are fine
[19:24:12] <zeeshan> i suck!
[19:24:25] <pcw_home> you misunderstand the drive continuous rating
[19:24:34] <CaptHindsight> don't get so down on yourself :)
[19:25:12] <zeeshan> is continuous rating not the same thing as FLA rating
[19:25:15] <zeeshan> for induction motors
[19:25:32] <pcw_home> yes its a thermal limit
[19:26:02] <zeeshan> so if cont rating is 7.0A, and i set it to 8A on the drive
[19:26:20] <zeeshan> won't that cause the motor to overheat given enough load
[19:26:36] <zeeshan> i thought the point of the current limit on the drive was to prevent motor overheating
[19:26:39] <zeeshan> in all circumstancs
[19:26:41] <pcw_home> you will get about 1/3 of the performance
[19:27:09] <zeeshan> so whats your suggestion?
[19:27:14] <zeeshan> what should i set my cont rating to on the drive
[19:27:23] <CaptHindsight> zeeshan: just do what we say and after it's working ask questions :)
[19:27:45] <pcw_home> overheating in servo motors is
[19:27:46] <pcw_home> 1. uncommon
[19:27:48] <pcw_home> 2. usually sensed with a thermistor or switch
[19:28:05] <zeeshan> these dont have a thermistor
[19:28:24] <zeeshan> gonna set it to 8A
[19:28:27] <zeeshan> and see if there is improvement
[19:28:29] <archivist> more
[19:28:37] <CaptHindsight> 15
[19:28:40] <zeeshan> well if its at 6.5A
[19:28:44] <zeeshan> at 8A
[19:28:47] <zeeshan> i should see some change right? :)
[19:29:31] <pcw_home> Unless the drive has thermal modeling of the motor (it doesnt)
[19:29:32] <pcw_home> the continuous rating of the drive is basically meaningless
[19:29:53] <pcw_home> peak is everything in servo systems
[19:30:05] <zeeshan> okay
[19:30:09] <zeeshan> what should i set it to
[19:30:14] <zeeshan> all the way up?!? :D
[19:30:16] <zeeshan> 12.5A ?!
[19:30:35] <CaptHindsight> relying on limiting the continuous current into a motor is very poor way of preventing it from overheating
[19:30:56] <pcw_home> The ideal thing would be to find the motor ratings
[19:31:09] <zeeshan> i have the original motor specs
[19:31:12] <zeeshan> what do you need to know
[19:31:19] <CaptHindsight> the same motor might be mounted on an infinite heat sink or in a very good insulator
[19:31:26] <pcw_home> peak current
[19:31:30] <zeeshan> peak current rating is
[19:31:35] <zeeshan> 10x continuous rating
[19:31:41] <zeeshan> 5-10x
[19:31:46] <zeeshan> lemme give you exact value brb.
[19:34:59] <zeeshan|2> x,y motors 6.4A armature current
[19:35:13] <zeeshan|2> peak current 51A
[19:36:01] <zeeshan|2> z motor 13.8A
[19:36:04] <zeeshan|2> peak 110A
[19:36:52] <zeeshan|2> accel for x,y = 5850 rad/s^2 , max, 6940 rad/s^2
[19:37:10] <CaptHindsight> crank up the current and add some thermal sensors if the motors don't have them
[19:37:11] <zeeshan|2> accel for z 6670 rad/s^2, 9010 rad/s^2 max.
[19:37:53] <zeeshan|2> aramature max temp
[19:37:53] <zeeshan|2> 130C
[19:40:38] <archivist> and add some weight to the table so when adjusting upwards it is ok when working with a normal load
[19:41:50] <zeeshan|2> what i set cont rating to
[19:41:52] <zeeshan|2> for x and y
[19:44:32] <zeeshan> iturned it up allthe way :P
[19:44:57] <zeeshan> spike is still there.
[19:46:36] <zeeshan> exact same spike :/
[19:47:27] <archivist> gib set too tight?
[19:47:36] <zeeshan> its much better at lower speeds
[19:47:38] <pcw_home> so it was not current limiting, but at least now you have more reasonable peak torque capability
[19:47:52] <zeeshan> gonna jog at 50 ipm sec.
[19:48:12] <zeeshan> its gone down a bit
[19:48:20] <zeeshan> from .002 to .0011
[19:48:30] <zeeshan> and there isnt as much variation
[19:48:42] <pcw_home> you might try increasing P some
[19:48:47] <zeeshan> it definitely helped.
[19:51:40] <pcw_home> like I said, you can probably increase P if you bump up your servo thread rate
[19:52:07] <zeeshan> pcw_home, its not oscillating at the P that it was oscillating at before
[19:52:28] <zeeshan> i went from 100 to 180
[19:52:32] <zeeshan> at 150 before it was oscillating
[19:52:36] <zeeshan> does that make any sense
[19:52:43] <zeeshan> and what should i make my servo thread rate
[19:55:09] <pcw_home> the more the merrier (until you start getting real time errors)
[19:55:16] <zeeshan> http://i.imgur.com/fEb0oVM.png
[19:55:32] <zeeshan> thats at jogging at 50 ipm
[19:55:50] <zeeshan> it looks like it needs more p
[19:55:52] <zeeshan> cause its under damped
[19:57:10] <zeeshan> Kp hasnt helped
[19:57:15] <zeeshan> that spike is the same magnitude
[19:57:18] <pcw_home> I would say less since its underdamped
[19:57:25] <zeeshan> oh
[19:58:06] <zeeshan> ok its happy at 120
[19:58:25] <pcw_home> but you may be able to use more if you bump up the thread rate
[19:58:56] <zeeshan> ok going to do that now
[19:59:51] <zeeshan> i really should get a different drive for Z
[19:59:55] <zeeshan> 110A peak!
[20:01:34] <zeeshan> my max jitter is 22000 ns
[20:02:40] <zeeshan> "max interval" 1,100,000ns
[20:05:23] <pcw_home> try 2 KHz
[20:06:37] <zeeshan> 500000 ns okay
[20:09:38] <zeeshan> okay
[20:09:38] <zeeshan> something helped.
[20:09:39] <zeeshan> i changed both the accel to 10in/s^2
[20:09:43] <zeeshan> and servo thread only
[20:09:53] <zeeshan> and its already better at 200 ipm
[20:10:22] <zeeshan> umm
[20:10:24] <zeeshan> at 50 ipm
[20:10:27] <zeeshan> that spike is so little now
[20:10:43] <zeeshan> 0.0007" now.
[20:10:50] <pcw_home> lower accel will help (but it compromises preformance)
[20:10:57] <zeeshan> no
[20:11:00] <zeeshan> i went higher accel..
[20:11:04] <zeeshan> from 7 to 10
[20:11:20] <zeeshan> because i have the current now.
[20:11:47] <pcw_home> yeah you can accel and overcome stiction
[20:13:19] <zeeshan> i tried 200 kp again
[20:13:22] <zeeshan> it still oscillates
[20:22:06] <zeeshan> i set I to 90
[20:22:09] <zeeshan> and the error is gone?
[20:22:33] <zeeshan> nm
[20:22:34] <zeeshan> fluke.
[20:24:50] <pcw_home> the threshold of oscillation should be higher
[20:25:26] <zeeshan> pcw_home, what does that spike imply on terms of machining
[20:25:33] <zeeshan> that i cant hold 1 thou tolerance?
[20:27:54] <zeeshan> http://i.imgur.com/CM8ucyI.png
[20:28:13] <zeeshan> thats some jogging around at 61 ipm
[20:28:33] <zeeshan> i dont see a peak error of more than 0.0007
[20:29:28] <pcw_home> probably possible to hold a lot better than .001 in most situations
[20:30:12] <pcw_home> a lot of these errors would be improved with jerk limiting
[20:30:28] <zeeshan> how would you do that?
[20:30:55] <malcom2073> Kick the jerks ass
[20:31:23] <pcw_home> needs linuxcnc TP changes (theres an experimental branch but it still has bugs AFAIK)
[20:31:49] <malcom2073> Is that the new planner stuff?
[20:32:12] <pcw_home> No
[20:34:05] <pcw_home> The new TP is still trapezoidal velocity profiles
[20:34:05] <zeeshan> my y axis
[20:34:06] <pcw_home> (but has more lookahead so better at keeping a constant velocity when you have CAM data that has lots of little segments)
[20:34:07] <zeeshan> runs so smooth..
[20:34:58] <pcw_home> is it the lightest?
[20:35:15] <zeeshan> nah
[20:35:18] <zeeshan> it moves the whole ram
[20:35:23] <zeeshan> the ram is proly 1000lb
[20:35:44] <pcw_home> maybe thats why...
[20:35:45] <zeeshan> table looks lighter
[20:36:33] <zeeshan> btw whats a good f-error lim to set?
[20:36:41] <zeeshan> and rapid error
[20:36:51] <zeeshan> i have set 0.010 and 0.003
[20:36:55] <zeeshan> dunno if thats too loose
[20:37:24] <pcw_home> its probably ok if its mainly a safety feature
[20:37:32] <zeeshan> okay
[20:37:48] <pcw_home> does your spindle work?
[20:38:14] <zeeshan> yes
[20:38:23] <zeeshan> just not through modbus yet
[20:38:55] <zeeshan> lemme show you the y Axis.
[20:38:57] <zeeshan> its so nice!
[20:39:07] <pcw_home> do you have any tooling?
[20:39:25] <zeeshan> not yet, im still looking for holders
[20:39:26] <zeeshan> why
[20:39:29] <zeeshan> you wanna see it under load?
[20:39:54] <malcom2073> pcw_home: You mentioned an experimental branch with jerk limited motion control, do you happen to have a link with any info/branch name?
[20:40:33] <zeeshan> http://i.imgur.com/2cjdWBH.png
[20:40:58] <zeeshan> 0.0002 error!
[20:41:03] <zeeshan> thats it
[20:46:24] <pcw_home> origin/micges/scurve-test2
[20:46:25] <pcw_home> may be the latest not sure
[20:46:48] <pcw_home> beware of bugs however
[20:48:01] <malcom2073> Cool, thanks
[20:48:11] <malcom2073> Yep, assume it will blow up the world if I run it, got it :)
[20:48:16] <malcom2073> Mainly want to keep an eye on it
[20:49:28] <malcom2073> I'm running screws at high rpm and high acceleration. When I tested a jerk limited motion controller and it was amazingly smooth (and I could move even faster), so I've an interest in that.
[20:49:36] <pcw_home> There was a discussion on IRC about it couple months ago
[20:51:37] <pcw_home> that was the upshot, even though a jerk limited profile is slower at the same acceleration than a trapezoidal profile
[20:51:38] <pcw_home> you can increase acceleration and keep within the same error budget so you gain speed
[20:52:04] <malcom2073> Right, you lose acceleration for short bursts, but gain it in the long run
[20:53:03] <CaptHindsight> zeeshan: are you going to swap it out to steppers now?
[20:53:12] <zeeshan> yea capt
[20:53:15] <pcw_home> you can see form zeeshans plots that there are untunable error spikes with infinite jerk
[20:53:20] <zeeshan> had enough of this
[20:53:40] <zeeshan> im ttrying to adjust gibs.
[20:53:46] <zeeshan> Y is so sweet, this should be too!
[20:54:18] <pcw_home> Just think how many errors your stepper system had (but you were blissfully unaware of)
[20:54:37] <zeeshan> lol
[20:55:16] <pcw_home> having 1u resolution linear scales lets you see all the problems...
[20:55:34] <zeeshan> i want scales on the lathe!
[20:56:11] <zeeshan> pcw_home, if i didnt set my reference gain right for my servo drives
[20:56:25] <zeeshan> so 5v = 32 v instead of 5v=30v
[20:56:28] <zeeshan> would that cause these issues
[20:56:39] <pcw_home> no
[20:57:15] <zeeshan> okay so its position loop issues
[20:57:21] <pcw_home> that would just change your FF1 and P values slightly
[20:58:17] <pcw_home> some of which (position loop issues) are mechanical
[20:58:53] <pcw_home> like the lead screw axial slop
[21:50:41] * unfy rawrs
[23:00:39] <zeeshan> should i be using encoder indexing for homing
[23:01:02] <zeeshan> it will help make it more consistent>
[23:01:06] <zeeshan> ?
[23:13:35] <bobo_> zeeshan: I thought the heidenhain scales had near end of scale referance marks ? axis micro or hall switch were for servo stop
[23:23:23] <bobo_> zeeshan: I also remember Nick Mueller writing of his need to use Shell Oil products for his way stiction problem .
[23:25:02] <zeeshan> bobo are youserious
[23:25:07] <zeeshan> i gotta look that up.
[23:25:25] <zeeshan> that would be the most accurate way to home
[23:25:34] <zeeshan> im working on modbus right now:)
[23:26:16] <bobo_> looked at your photos of the scales
[23:28:05] <bobo_> thought there was germen words for referance
[23:30:56] <bobo_> but remember I lead you down the wrong rabbit hols about the servo Brake
[23:31:23] <bobo_> hols=hole
[23:37:06] <zeeshan> =]
[23:42:22] <bobo_> bobo wonders what =] means ? probably means craw back under his rock and just listen
[23:42:44] <zeeshan_> haha
[23:44:12] <zeeshan_> yay
[23:44:19] <zeeshan_> modbus working for vfd 1 and 2
[23:44:23] <zeeshan_> for hyd and coolant pump