#linuxcnc | Logs for 2015-01-16

[10:23:57] <jdh> ok.
[10:32:21] <pcw_home> If you have a cap across the brake the current will reverse when disconnected
[11:01:37] <zeeshan> pcw_home does that work for all electromagnetic brakes?
[11:02:43] <zeeshan> pcw_home: my final x tuning values were: P=100, FF1 = 2.65, my final y tuning values were: P=400, FF1=2.55
[11:02:49] <zeeshan> they are the same exact motor.
[11:03:09] <zeeshan> the difference in P is due to more or less inertia that the motor is coupled with?
[11:03:16] <zeeshan> (need to understand theory!)
[11:03:50] <ssi> did you not need any ff2 tuning?
[11:04:08] <zeeshan> no ssi
[11:04:25] <ssi> no ferror spikes on accel/decel?
[11:04:27] <pcw_home> Yes, P depends on inertial load
[11:04:33] <zeeshan> ssi yep no spikes
[11:04:36] <ssi> cool
[11:04:39] <zeeshan> more inertia = more P?
[11:04:54] <zeeshan> i remember we had to do equation of motor
[11:05:01] <zeeshan> and equation of motion
[11:05:19] <pcw_home> the higher the inertial load, the lower the natural frequency
[11:05:23] <archivist> here have a pendulum
[11:05:25] <zeeshan> AH
[11:05:36] <zeeshan> youre analyzing equation of motion by itself
[11:05:47] <zeeshan> as single DOF system
[11:05:56] <zeeshan> sqrt (k/m)
[11:06:17] <pcw_home> so your phase margin increases, allowing more gain
[11:06:34] <zeeshan> ssi: i am using a conservative accel
[11:06:39] <zeeshan> 7in/s^2
[11:06:48] <ssi> pcw_home: dangit you know too many disciplines too intimately
[11:06:52] <ssi> make the rest of us look bad
[11:06:55] <pcw_home> (you can also increase gain a bit by upping the servo thread rate)
[11:07:45] <zeeshan> gain is the porportional amount of analog output to motor velocity?
[11:07:52] <zeeshan> in this case
[11:08:09] <zeeshan> ssi: pcw is expert status
[11:08:20] <zeeshan> his last name is wallace
[11:08:21] <pcw_home> velocity change versus error
[11:08:44] <zeeshan> pcw_home: ah
[11:08:52] <pcw_home> (P controlling a velocity mode servo)
[11:09:11] <zeeshan> D would be position change vs error
[11:09:20] <zeeshan> and I would be accel change vs error
[11:09:28] <zeeshan> yes?
[11:09:46] <pcw_home> Not really
[11:10:10] <ssi> D is velocity command proportional to the rate of change of error
[11:10:24] <ssi> I is velocity command proportional to the integrated error
[11:10:30] <zeeshan> AHH.
[11:10:51] <pcw_home> Right and D is typically not used with velocity mode servos
[11:11:10] <ssi> the idea is, if you're saying "hey, go 1m/s", and the error isn't decreasing, then the integral of the error will increase, which will increase the velocity command
[11:11:12] <zeeshan> why because there is not much error in rate of change?
[11:11:33] <PetefromTn_> I need to teleport PCW here to my shop to help me fine tune my servos hehe
[11:11:42] <ssi> if the error is decreasing very rapidly, then a negative D term will reduce the velocity command as it's approaching zero very quickly
[11:11:52] <t12> tune via webcam
[11:11:53] <pcw_home> Effectivel D is done in the drives in velocity mode
[11:12:11] <ssi> PetefromTn_: I've fine tuned servos in the past by sending pcw screenshots ;)
[11:12:17] <pcw_home> torque mode drives need D to be stable
[11:12:21] <zeeshan> he tuned my servos using screenshots
[11:12:27] <zeeshan> i followed same steps for Y axis
[11:12:35] <ssi> I need to get my damn servos done
[11:12:41] <zeeshan> pcw_home: you have a really good understanding of controllers.
[11:12:42] <ssi> I have a new fpga dev board coming
[11:12:46] <zeeshan> and types of drives
[11:12:58] <zeeshan> this is not stuff you can easily figur eout from a manual for a drive
[11:13:01] <zeeshan> unless you know wha tyoure looking for
[11:13:02] <PetefromTn_> I thought about doing a webcam to get help with my imperial conversion I need to do.. Kind of afraid to mess with what works right now.
[11:13:08] <ssi> PetefromTn_: https://pbs.twimg.com/media/B7Z2oHjIEAAyc1m.jpg:large
[11:13:26] <PetefromTn_> is that wood?
[11:13:29] <ssi> ya
[11:13:34] <PetefromTn_> jeez
[11:13:35] <ssi> spruce and mahogany plywood
[11:13:52] <ssi> it's light and omgstrong
[11:14:02] <PetefromTn_> you are a brave man altho I do understand planes were built with wood for decades..
[11:14:03] <ssi> working on the lower wing spars now
[11:14:12] <ssi> it's seriously strong as crap
[11:14:19] <ssi> these wings are good to 20G on this plane
[11:14:25] <PetefromTn_> my crap aint that strong..
[11:14:30] <PetefromTn_> :D
[11:14:37] <zeeshan> PetefromTn_: how is your Z brake wired up
[11:14:42] <ssi> 1500lb gross, so they're good to 30klb
[11:14:45] <zeeshan> do you remember
[11:14:49] <ssi> and that top wing is held on with two 5/16" bolts
[11:14:59] <ssi> plus the flying wires
[11:15:02] <PetefromTn_> dunno I bought it all wired up did not have to mess with it...LOL but I can look at it.
[11:15:31] <PetefromTn_> it has its own din rail mounted relay and power supply.
[11:15:36] <zeeshan> hm
[11:15:39] <Rab> Wood is still used in helicopter blades, apparently because it doesn't fatigue like metal.
[11:15:39] <PetefromTn_> ssi nice
[11:15:49] <zeeshan> i didn't understand pcw_home's comment about adding a capacitor in parallel
[11:16:00] <PetefromTn_> ? I thought they were all carbon fiber and whatnot
[11:16:18] <ssi> carbon over wood
[11:16:22] <PetefromTn_> composites
[11:16:25] <zeeshan> they show a varistor in the diagram too
[11:16:26] <ssi> most composites have wood or foam cores
[11:16:40] <pcw_home> DC brakes can stick due to residual magnetism
[11:17:08] <ssi> pcw_home: the cap is a load for the brake's inductive spike or something?
[11:17:14] <ssi> would a flyback diode work better?
[11:17:29] <zeeshan> no ssi
[11:17:33] <zeeshan> my brake is acting funny
[11:17:41] <zeeshan> A-------\\\///\\\///\\\///\\\///\\\///\\\---------B
[11:17:43] <pcw_home> if you look at the schematics they have a capacitor across the inductor
[11:17:45] <zeeshan> suppose that is the brake
[11:17:57] <zeeshan> When you apply +24vdc to pin A and ground pin B, the brake disengages. When you remove power from pin A, the brake stays disengaged. When you apply +24vdc to pin B and ground pin A, the brake engages. When you remove power from pin B, the brake stays engaged.
[11:18:06] <zeeshan> pcw_home: yes
[11:18:20] <zeeshan> are they using the varistor
[11:18:24] <ssi> zeeshan: sounds like it's latching
[11:18:25] <zeeshan> to deaden the current spike
[11:19:04] <pcw_home> with a capacitor, when you disconnect the power you will get AC voltage (resonance) that will reverse the field
[11:19:08] <ssi> ahhh
[11:19:59] <pcw_home> with a diode, the current (and magnetic field) will always be in the same direction
[11:20:15] <zeeshan> so i need to remove the diode
[11:20:27] <zeeshan> add a varistor to deaden spike and add cap
[11:20:40] <pcw_home> and add capacitor
[11:20:49] <zeeshan> i cant read german but theyre saying something about 29VAC
[11:21:01] <zeeshan> they dont really specify a cap size
[11:21:07] <pcw_home> you may not need the varistor
[11:21:24] <zeeshan> oh nm
[11:21:25] <zeeshan> they do say it.
[11:21:28] <zeeshan> 220uF , 60V.
[11:22:15] <pcw_home> thats non polarized!
[11:24:45] <mozmck> pcw_home: did you see my note that the blue text in your store is only in grid view?
[11:24:58] <zeeshan> To prevent noise generation by pulse current by tightening or drop point , a capacitor of 220 / 60V is recommended when using a Graetz bridge for smoothing .
[11:25:15] <zeeshan> thats what it translates to..
[11:26:43] <zeeshan> Depending on the connected load of this capacitor is jedoh raise the voltage , more or less , the secondary voltage DAB in the transformer will not be passed as read- kaan
[11:26:43] <zeeshan> lol
[11:26:46] <zeeshan> that makes no sense :P
[11:27:43] <SpeedEvil> https://vine.co/u/1167773680030359552 - loop closure failure
[11:29:35] <pcw_home> mozmck: yes I'll look into that
[11:30:05] <mozmck> pcw_home: ok, everything else looks fine, and ordering works :)
[11:31:04] <CaptHindsight> Graetz bridge rectifier: a full-wave rectifier using 4 diodes.
[11:31:12] <zeeshan> so it looks like theyre saying theyre using the cap
[11:31:15] <zeeshan> to filter the power supply
[11:31:22] * zeeshan is confused
[11:31:26] <CaptHindsight> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Leo_Graetz
[11:31:37] <zeeshan> ah
[11:31:58] <pcw_home> I say a non polarized cap across the coil
[11:32:00] <ssi> SpeedEvil: :)
[11:32:04] <pcw_home> saw
[11:32:08] <zeeshan> pcw_home: im sure i have one
[11:32:11] <zeeshan> that came from original control
[11:32:13] <zeeshan> gonna look
[11:32:26] <zeeshan> i also think i saw a varistor.
[11:33:14] <zeeshan> https://www.flickr.com/photos/128539016@N05/15867896489/
[11:33:18] <zeeshan> damn it im not home right now
[11:33:24] <zeeshan> ofcourse i take a pic where i cant read it
[11:34:28] <CaptHindsight> looks like 3 large Graetz rectifiers
[11:35:14] <zeeshan> btw id like to share this observation for what its worth
[11:35:25] <zeeshan> i really thought my cabinet with the drives and vfds would run hotter.
[11:35:39] <zeeshan> the oine with the computer motherboard and power supply runs WAY hotter
[11:35:42] <ssi> SpeedEvil: lol: Elon Musk ‏@elonmusk Next rocket landing on drone ship in 2 to 3 weeks w way more hydraulic fluid. At least it shd explode for a diff reason.
[11:35:55] <zeeshan> but granted, the vfds havent seen full load yet
[11:36:11] <zeeshan> ssi: hahah
[11:36:14] <zeeshan> that guy is the best
[11:36:38] <ssi> he reminds me of me... with more money
[11:36:47] <ssi> lots more money :(
[11:37:14] <zeeshan> you can tell he's a real person
[11:37:19] <zeeshan> with how awkward he is when he speaks
[11:37:27] <zeeshan> hes not one of those salesman types
[11:38:08] <mozmck> so salesmen aren't real people? ;)
[11:38:13] <ssi> no, they're not :D
[11:38:28] <zeeshan> mozmck: call me narrowminded
[11:38:38] <archivist> real salesmen have snake oil for blood
[11:38:40] <zeeshan> but i think people that build/fix stuff , are real people
[11:38:53] <ssi> I think you have to be a sociopath to be an effective salesman
[11:38:59] <zeeshan> even marketing people are real people
[11:39:06] <PetefromTn_> Ooh oOh I'm real!
[11:39:06] <zeeshan> they try to make people recognize the value of a product
[11:39:15] <zeeshan> salesman are the scum
[11:39:23] * zeeshan hides
[11:39:36] <ssi> :)
[11:39:44] <zeeshan> i dont mean engineering salesmen either..
[11:39:52] <zeeshan> they put together packages for companies
[11:40:01] <zeeshan> im talking abotu those bastards that try to sell you a new waterheater
[11:40:04] <zeeshan> @ your door
[11:40:14] <mozmck> yes, there are different kinds of salesmen.
[11:40:23] <PetefromTn_> salesholes..
[11:40:29] <zeeshan> haha
[11:40:39] <CaptHindsight> I didn't know that I needed a new heater heater until he showed up at my door
[11:40:47] <zeeshan> exactly!
[11:40:57] <mozmck> I like the kind that will tell you their product is not the best fit for your needs. Most commercial/industrial salesmen I've seen are more like that.
[11:41:16] <archivist> I get replacement window salesdroids. I like winding them up
[11:41:21] <zeeshan> mozmck: i agree they have the scum gene in them too
[11:41:29] <ssi> ugh window salesmen are terrible
[11:41:51] <ssi> I needed windows really bad and I eventually ended up buying them from lowes and having them install
[11:41:54] <ssi> and it was pretty reasonable
[11:42:03] <ssi> the window salesmen wanted 5x as much money
[11:42:05] <ssi> or more
[11:42:11] <CaptHindsight> I like when the send the female salesman over with the shorter skirt and larger upper frontal superstructure to persuade me to buy from them
[11:42:23] <zeeshan> CaptHindsight: you can get that cheaper at a strip club
[11:42:26] <zeeshan> :-)
[11:42:27] <ssi> lol superstructure
[11:42:35] <ssi> zeeshan: OH
[11:42:43] <ssi> we call strip clubs "the canadian ballet"
[11:42:46] <ssi> what do you call them there?
[11:42:50] <ssi> "canadian canadian ballet"?
[11:42:50] <mozmck> I generally totally ignore un-solicited sales calls, and when I need something, do my own research.
[11:42:51] <ssi> :D
[11:42:55] <zeeshan> the rippers
[11:42:59] <zeeshan> why canadian ballet
[11:43:03] <ssi> I dunno, it's funny
[11:43:08] <zeeshan> :)
[11:43:21] <ssi> we've actually been talking about going to toronto to go to the canadian canadian ballet
[11:43:29] <ssi> and we read a bunch of reviews of the clubs there
[11:43:30] <CaptHindsight> Ontario has a reputation in the US for having lots of strip clubs
[11:43:36] <ssi> and what we learned was that canadians HATE cover charges
[11:43:50] <archivist> uncover charges!
[11:43:52] <ssi> all the reviews were like "it was pretty good, but there was a two dollar cover!"
[11:43:52] <zeeshan> yea we have tons
[11:43:53] <CaptHindsight> well larger Canadian cities in general
[11:43:57] <ssi> TWO DOLLARS?!
[11:43:57] <ssi> hahah
[11:44:27] <ssi> if you can pay the cover change with a single coin, it's not unreasonable :D
[11:44:56] <zeeshan> we also have a crap load of massage parlors
[11:45:00] <zeeshan> f that nonsense
[11:45:04] <zeeshan> you can see em everywhere
[11:45:15] <zeeshan> nails places turn into massage parlors at night
[11:45:18] <ssi> yeah they're all over the place down here too
[11:45:34] <ssi> never seen one that was colocated with a nails place
[11:46:03] <CaptHindsight> "Nails and Knobs"
[11:46:17] <ssi> lawl
[11:48:03] <JT-Shop> yea, figured out how to make the borders on Mate wider
[11:48:35] <Loetmichel> did i mentoin earlier that we got the enclosures back from the painter for the next 20 Thin clients like this one? -> http://www.cyrom.org/palbum/main.php?g2_itemId=14412 ... and 7 of them are Ral 3020... That BITES... customers demand ... :-/
[11:49:19] <Loetmichel> and now we have to build 7 in this Enclosure...-> http://www.cyrom.org/palbum/main.php?g2_itemId=15541... i pity the soldiers that have to sit 8 hours a day straight in front of these ;-)
[11:51:22] <mozmck> JT-Shop: you like Mate better than XFCE?
[11:52:14] <JT-Shop> is XFCE what comes stock on the Debian Wheezy?
[11:52:36] <mozmck> yes
[11:53:00] <CaptHindsight> Loetmichel: do you machine those all from 6061?
[11:53:02] <JT-Shop> then yes I like Mate a whole lot better, more like Ubuntu 10.04
[11:53:21] <mozmck> I run XFCE on my main system running LinuxMint 17.1
[11:53:37] <Loetmichel> CaptHindsight: these are made of 1mm sheet steel, zinced and then powder coated
[11:54:23] <mozmck> JT-Shop: huh, I don't notice too much difference, but then I use Nemo (Nautilus fork) for the file manager.
[11:54:34] <CaptHindsight> Loetmichel: do you punch or drill all the ventilation holes?
[11:54:43] <mozmck> Mine is a little newer too which might help.
[11:55:28] <CaptHindsight> 34F a heatwave
[11:55:35] <Loetmichel> CaptHindsight: CNC punch, but he had these made
[11:55:40] <Loetmichel> i only do prototypes
[11:57:35] <R2E4> Anyone know anything about this machine? Is it worth 10G's with a broke control? http://www.kijiji.ca/v-autres-outils/ville-de-montreal/tour-okuma-es-l8-cnc-lathe-2000/1033749835?enableSearchNavigationFlag=true
[12:01:42] <zeeshan> no
[12:01:52] <zeeshan> im kidding
[12:01:55] <zeeshan> that looks in mint conditioj
[12:02:02] <JT-Shop> nice slant bed lathe
[12:02:15] <zeeshan> fairly new too
[12:02:22] <zeeshan> i bet there is something stupid thats wrong with it
[12:02:24] <zeeshan> that you can figure out
[12:02:24] <R2E4> 15 years old
[12:02:48] <zeeshan> is the max dist between centers good enough for you?
[12:03:02] <R2E4> 4,000.00 worth of control boards need replacing.
[12:03:13] <zeeshan> oh f that
[12:03:13] <jdh> 10hp spindle!
[12:03:35] <SpeedEvil> :)
[12:03:43] <SpeedEvil> I't pay $2K for it.
[12:03:44] <R2E4> 1000.00 worth of power supplies and mesa cards and I'm in....
[12:03:47] <SpeedEvil> But then that's my CC limit
[12:04:08] <zeeshan> i keep my cc limit to 1000
[12:04:12] <JT-Shop> only 3k rpm
[12:04:20] <zeeshan> to buy a 2000$
[12:04:25] <zeeshan> i'd have to overpay it first
[12:04:30] <zeeshan> forces you to be debt free :)
[12:04:58] <CaptHindsight> zeeshan: are the controls all in French?
[12:05:13] <zeeshan> CaptHindsight: i think you mean R2E4
[12:05:14] <zeeshan> :)
[12:05:40] <CaptHindsight> I thought since you're a Canadian
[12:05:50] <zeeshan> at work
[12:05:54] <zeeshan> you can set them to whatever language you want
[12:07:01] <R2E4> english controls
[12:07:43] <R2E4> zeeshan: max distance I have now is 0, so anything bigger than that is a plus.
[12:08:22] <R2E4> It's a clean machine though.
[12:08:45] <R2E4> other lathes in that era are 25K +
[12:08:56] <zeeshan> yea
[12:09:06] <SpeedEvil> As long as you can afford it without hardship...
[12:09:11] <SpeedEvil> R2E4: do you have an actual job for it?
[12:09:18] <zeeshan> R2E4 has a huge shop
[12:09:19] <zeeshan> :P
[12:09:40] <R2E4> I am turning down jobs for CNC lathe work.
[12:09:55] <R2E4> I have conventional lathe though.
[12:09:57] <SpeedEvil> Well - it's the right place to be in :)
[12:10:44] <R2E4> I bought my VMC for 6000.00 and it was stressful getting up and running. Imagine a Lathe at 10,000.00
[12:11:01] <SpeedEvil> Has it made its price back?
[12:11:01] <zeeshan> R2E4: did you bild your own controller!
[12:11:26] <R2E4> SpeedEvil: really close.
[12:12:07] <R2E4> zeeshan: yes, button panel, enclosure mesa cards plc relay banks....
[12:12:23] <zeeshan> nice
[12:13:49] <R2E4> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UciqAyRwaOQ, this was a while ago
[12:14:31] <zeeshan> haha
[12:14:33] <zeeshan> is that a sr20 in there
[12:14:36] <zeeshan> that car
[12:15:05] <zeeshan> yea that has to be a sr20
[12:15:11] <zeeshan> i can tell by the exhaust flanges
[12:15:14] <zeeshan> exhaust side
[12:15:44] <R2E4> yes, thats an sr20 going in that Lotus7 I am building.
[12:15:53] <zeeshan> very coolk
[12:16:12] <R2E4> the CNC bridgeport on the wood side is now where the lotus7 is on the metal side.
[12:18:18] <R2E4> I have yet to work on the tool changer. Changing tools with a button, and manual change.
[12:28:10] <zeeshan> pcw_home: i read through quickly about a parallel LC circuit. if i add a capacitor in parallel with the inductor
[12:28:19] <zeeshan> with a DC source
[12:28:43] <zeeshan> eri dont know whats going on
[12:28:46] <zeeshan> <- hates microelectronics :(
[12:28:50] <zeeshan> er electronics.
[12:29:07] <pcw_home> This is macroelectronics!
[12:29:14] <zeeshan> its beyond me man
[12:29:26] <zeeshan> these guys are talking about AC voltage source, you get a resonant circuit
[12:29:31] <zeeshan> not sure what happens in a DC circuit
[12:29:49] <zeeshan> when you close the switch the first time, cap cahrges, inductor mag field generated
[12:30:11] <pcw_home> what happens is you get ringing when you remove the DC
[12:30:15] <zeeshan> yes
[12:30:25] <zeeshan> it'll resonate till it dissaptes due to resistance
[12:30:30] <zeeshan> but how is that helping the brake disengage
[12:30:35] <zeeshan> it's trying to collapse the magnetic field?
[12:31:41] <zeeshan> i could not find a 220uF cap in the old control box hardware. only found a 3300uF 40V
[12:31:44] <zeeshan> it is also a polarized cap
[12:31:50] <zeeshan> you said i want non-polarized?
[12:32:21] <pcw_home> Thats a filter cap (the cap across the brake would have to be non-polarized)
[12:32:34] <zeeshan> i wondere where it is
[12:32:43] <zeeshan> because i want to see if they had a varistor with it
[12:32:51] <pcw_home> Yeah its in the schematic
[12:32:52] <zeeshan> so i can grab the specs and go buy some
[12:33:41] <zeeshan> i remember seeing a varistor
[12:33:45] <zeeshan> but not this cap
[12:34:30] <pcw_home> I suspect that is was used to reverse the field which will help release the brake if its stuck with residual magnetism
[12:34:54] <zeeshan> can i achieve the same thing with two relays
[12:35:02] <zeeshan> reversing the voltage for a brief second
[12:35:24] <zeeshan> that might actually be bad for the power supply
[12:35:27] <zeeshan> cause its a brief short circuit
[12:35:40] <zeeshan> i dont know though - not an expert
[12:35:48] <pcw_home> yeah but thats more complicated than a capacitor
[12:35:57] <zeeshan> pcw_home: i have the relays
[12:36:04] <zeeshan> i would just need to wire the signal
[12:36:12] <pcw_home> and you still need a varistor in that case
[12:36:17] <zeeshan> ah
[12:36:31] <zeeshan> i can see why you're saying i dont need a vairstor if i just get a cap
[12:36:38] <zeeshan> its cause it will slow the charge time
[12:37:03] <zeeshan> im thinking of RLC.
[12:37:19] <pcw_home> it will lower the peak voltage also (think of the capacitor on old auto points)
[12:37:54] <zeeshan> so i need to go grab a 220uF 60V cap nonpolarized
[12:37:57] <zeeshan> thats it
[12:38:06] <zeeshan> and remove the diode i have in parallel with my solenoid
[12:38:15] <zeeshan> and instead put this cap in parallel
[12:38:32] <pcw_home> maybe an old motor start capacitor
[12:38:46] <zeeshan> that i will have. lemme take a look
[12:40:39] <Rab> zeeshan, http://www.digikey.com/product-detail/en/UVP1J221MHD1TN/493-12712-1-ND/4328329
[12:43:50] <zeeshan> unfortunately no motor caps
[12:43:54] <zeeshan> damn 3 phase motors everywhere
[12:44:22] <zeeshan> Rab: digikey will take time :(
[12:44:40] <zeeshan> pcw_home: how quick will the mag field collapse
[12:44:57] <zeeshan> i know thats a broad question
[12:45:05] <zeeshan> but assuming 0.5 ohm resistance
[12:45:21] <zeeshan> second? microsec?
[12:46:11] <zeeshan> also 2 relays is a bad idea because if i lose power
[12:46:18] <zeeshan> there is a chance the brake wont engage.
[12:46:40] <zeeshan> rab when are you getting a lathe? :)
[12:47:29] <Rab> zeeshan, as soon as I have the floor space. So...10+ years?
[12:47:35] <zeeshan> hehe
[12:47:45] <Rab> Thinking about trying to fit a shipping container into the back yard.
[12:47:48] <zeeshan> you have lots of space
[12:48:38] <Rab> Also, there's no industry here. Any old crappy lathe goes for $2,000+.
[12:49:03] <Rab> So it would probably take a road trip with a trailer to find anything good.
[12:49:08] <pcw_home> t=L/R
[12:49:09] <zeeshan> where are you again
[12:49:13] <Rab> Austin, TX
[12:49:28] <Rab> AmeriKKKa
[12:49:43] <zeeshan> 0.00044 s
[12:49:53] <zeeshan> 220 e-6 / 0.5
[12:49:55] <zeeshan> oh thats quick
[12:50:12] <zeeshan> Rab: yorue in the land of the free
[12:50:14] <zeeshan> road trip it!
[12:50:41] <Rab> Gas is cheap, I guess.
[12:50:48] <zeeshan> yes!
[12:52:22] <zeeshan> jeez there are so many kinds of caps
[12:52:48] <pcw_home> RC time constant is well... RC
[12:54:07] <pcw_home> so if you have say 1 henry and 24 Ohms(guessing barke specs) the decay time is about 40 ms into the diode
[12:54:20] <zeeshan> 27 ohm
[12:54:20] <zeeshan> :D
[12:55:17] <zeeshan> http://www.digikey.ca/product-detail/en/LNT2W221MSEC/493-9061-ND/2549190
[12:55:20] <zeeshan> found the perfect capaictor
[12:55:25] <zeeshan> but too bad its not local
[12:56:04] <Rab> Who is local? Do you have Grainger?
[12:56:10] <zeeshan> yes i have grainger
[12:56:11] <zeeshan> they will have?
[12:56:15] <Rab> yah
[12:56:46] <zeeshan> how important is the 220uF?
[12:56:53] <Rab> Maybe not in stock at the store, but they do ship-to-store.
[12:56:58] <Rab> Beats me man.
[12:57:03] <zeeshan> i want it now!
[12:57:13] <zeeshan> id like to make chips this weekend
[12:57:14] <zeeshan> :D
[12:57:19] <zeeshan> only thing left is Z.
[12:57:24] <zeeshan> and reversing 3 limit switches to nc
[12:57:33] <zeeshan> for some reason the +axis switches are nc.
[12:57:36] <zeeshan> -axis switches are no
[12:57:55] <zeeshan> not sure why they wired them like that
[12:58:37] <pcw_home> You also might want to take a look at the brake to make sure it s not just sticking
[12:58:47] <zeeshan> pcw_home: when i reverse polarity
[12:58:53] <zeeshan> it disengages
[12:58:57] <zeeshan> i mean engages
[12:59:12] <zeeshan> how can i check if its sticking any other way without disassembling it
[13:00:53] <pcw_home> Thats really odd (and dangerous), most just engage when power is removed
[13:01:04] <zeeshan> it doesnt
[13:01:18] <zeeshan> did you get a chance to read the behaviour i described earlier?
[13:01:29] <pcw_home> I think I would investigate further
[13:01:48] <zeeshan> When you apply +24vdc to pin A and ground pin B, the brake disengages. When you remove power from pin A, the brake stays disengaged. When you apply +24vdc to pin B and ground pin A, the brake engages. When you remove power from pin B, the brake stays engaged.
[13:02:03] <zeeshan> A-------\\\///\\\///\\\///\\\///\\\///\\\---------B
[13:02:11] <zeeshan> ascii capacitor! :D
[13:02:55] <zeeshan> i was hoping your solution would help fix it
[13:03:11] <zeeshan> by putting the brake the capacitor in parallel it will help discharge?
[13:03:21] <pcw_home> The manual mentioned a permanent magnet brake maybe thats what you have
[13:03:30] <zeeshan> yes its a perm mag brake
[13:03:35] <zeeshan> i translated that
[13:04:09] <pcw_home> in which case you probably need the reversing relay
[13:04:33] <zeeshan> can i use 2 diodes in parallel
[13:04:43] <zeeshan> flipped in direction
[13:04:47] <pcw_home> nope thats a short
[13:05:13] <zeeshan> http://i.imgur.com/boJ0uwv.png
[13:05:21] <zeeshan> im really thinking that diagram on the bottom right
[13:05:34] <zeeshan> was how they factory did it
[13:06:03] <zeeshan> it looks like z ener diode
[13:06:07] <zeeshan> in series with a regular diode
[13:07:03] <_methods> ground shunt?
[13:07:23] <pcw_home> but that only allows one polarity (the series diode only allows current to flow in one direction)
[13:07:42] <zeeshan> btw this coil only draws 1A.
[13:07:59] <zeeshan> so i need a varistor
[13:09:13] <pcw_home> I think thats a non latching brake circuit not your permanant magnet latching brake
[13:09:32] <zeeshan> okay i guess the Y axis isnt a typo then
[13:11:16] <zeeshan> http://i.imgur.com/cc5FnK7.png
[13:11:19] <zeeshan> this is what i drew up last night
[13:11:25] <zeeshan> i personally dont think its safe
[13:11:44] <zeeshan> because the relay thats responsible for engagement
[13:11:50] <zeeshan> oh nm
[13:12:08] <zeeshan> yea its not safe
[13:12:11] <zeeshan> if the 24vdc supply fails
[13:12:25] <zeeshan> even if mesa is off, and the default relay state is a "engage brake"
[13:12:31] <zeeshan> no power will flow to engage the brake
[13:13:22] <pcw_home> well thats the trouble with latching brakes...
[13:13:40] <zeeshan> what if i keep a cap in parallel with the brake
[13:13:42] <zeeshan> non polarized
[13:14:01] <zeeshan> will that not store enough energy to provide enough power to the brake in disengage state
[13:15:11] <pcw_home> Dont think so
[13:15:43] <zeeshan> i dunno why i have labeled output 1 and output 3
[13:15:47] <zeeshan> it should be output 1 NO
[13:15:53] <zeeshan> and output 1 NC
[13:16:22] <zeeshan> and flip the connections on it
[13:16:27] <zeeshan> so one command signal flips it
[13:17:08] <pcw_home> So as long as your 24V power supply has enough hold up time it should be safe dieing power failures
[13:17:26] <zeeshan> yea but if the mesa stays on longer
[13:17:30] <zeeshan> and watchdog failure doesnt happen before
[13:17:34] <pcw_home> during power failures
[13:17:35] <zeeshan> it might have already discharged
[13:18:16] <atom1> pcw_home, do you know how to access the sserial with mesaflash thru the 7i90?
[13:18:23] <atom1> i just updated to 3.2 to test it
[13:18:23] <pcw_home> so you need power failure sense
[13:18:35] <zeeshan> can i do that in mesa?
[13:18:49] <zeeshan> it monitors the 24vdc line
[13:18:54] <zeeshan> if it falls below say 20vdc
[13:19:05] <zeeshan> it immediately goes in failure mode
[13:19:08] <zeeshan> delatching the relays
[13:19:18] <zeeshan> that would be cool!
[13:19:30] <pcw_home> sure
[13:19:37] <zeeshan> nice!
[13:19:40] <zeeshan> that would make this very safe
[13:20:46] <pcw_home> It may be the the PC power will fail first
[13:20:54] <pcw_home> that the
[13:21:07] <zeeshan> that would be even better
[13:21:19] <zeeshan> cause mesa's default state with no power
[13:21:22] <atom1> SSLBP port 0:
[13:21:22] <atom1> SSLBP Version: 1.43
[13:21:22] <atom1> SSLBP Channels: 2
[13:21:22] <atom1> SSLBP Baud Rate: 2500000
[13:21:24] <zeeshan> is putting outputs to 0?
[13:21:36] <atom1> cool
[13:21:39] <pcw_home> yes
[13:22:44] <pcw_home> the 7I77 will turn off all outputs if host comms stop for more than 50 ms
[13:23:15] <zeeshan> pcw_home: you guys have built nice safety features.
[13:23:21] <zeeshan> i really liked the fact that it was going in limp mode
[13:23:28] <zeeshan> when my polarity of the hyd soleneoid was wrong
[13:23:46] <zeeshan> i guess it was detecting a short circuit or something somewhere
[13:23:53] <zeeshan> i still dont know why it was triggering :)
[13:24:01] <pcw_home> so basically you want to make sure that the 24V holdup time is long enough
[13:24:14] <zeeshan> yea
[13:26:32] <Rab> zeeshan, is there any virtue to derating servo amps? The servos I have are 80V, 7.6A...AMC BE15A8 is 20-80V, 7.5A. Is that a good fit, or is e.g. BE25A20 more appropriate?
[13:27:13] <zeeshan> from my limited experience with my servos
[13:27:31] <zeeshan> as long as your motor nameplate continuous current is met
[13:27:32] * JT-Shop finally got what he expected from the lathe roughing cycle
[13:27:42] <zeeshan> you're driving your motor good enough
[13:27:52] <zeeshan> but my servos can benefit from additional peak current
[13:28:10] <zeeshan> i think pcw said thats like 4-5x name plate curent
[13:28:31] <zeeshan> will you be getting all the possible performance from your servo? no.
[13:28:42] <zeeshan> will they work for most applications, yes
[13:28:44] <Rab> I guess I'm more worried about burning out the drive.
[13:28:53] <zeeshan> dont worry about that
[13:29:02] <zeeshan> double checkin the spec sheet but im pretty sure almost all bedrives
[13:29:09] <zeeshan> have overtemp protection etc
[13:29:26] <Rab> I would usually derate power supply electronics by 30-50% at least. But AMC seems like nice industrial stuff that's probably already derated.
[13:29:39] <zeeshan> i'd say so
[13:29:44] <zeeshan> check this out
[13:29:56] <zeeshan> i was driving my X axis at 202 ipm
[13:30:11] <zeeshan> that is roughly 9.2 V out
[13:30:16] <zeeshan> out of 10.
[13:30:21] <pcw_home> to get full performance you need the peak current rating of the motors and your drives should be able to deliver that
[13:30:24] <zeeshan> and i was pushing agains tthe table
[13:30:37] <zeeshan> to simulate load .
[13:30:44] <zeeshan> touched the drive after. it was luke warm
[13:30:48] <zeeshan> 30C by my hand test
[13:30:54] <pcw_home> dont get pinched!
[13:31:01] <zeeshan> haha pcw
[13:31:13] <Rab> What's the rating on your servos?
[13:31:19] <zeeshan> be25a20ac
[13:31:22] <zeeshan> set to 6.5A
[13:32:02] <zeeshan> i think you will be fine with the 8A drive
[13:32:13] <Rab> zeeshan, I mean your motors.
[13:32:23] <zeeshan> 6.5A 170VDC
[13:32:46] <pcw_home> unlike step motors, servos only use power when its needed so
[13:32:47] <pcw_home> unless you push really hard for a long time they are not going to get hot
[13:32:57] <zeeshan> pcw_home: oh man i was giving it a good workout
[13:33:00] <zeeshan> and myself a good workout
[13:33:16] <Rab> So 1000W class?
[13:33:21] <zeeshan> jog back and forth and playin tug of warr
[13:33:32] <Rab> pcw_home, good point.
[13:33:37] <zeeshan> yea about there rab
[13:33:43] <pcw_home> (bad tuning = oscillation can overheat motors/drives)
[13:33:51] <zeeshan> pcw_home: hey man
[13:33:59] <zeeshan> you're the one who told me kp - 100 from oscillation
[13:34:01] <zeeshan> so its far away!
[13:34:45] <zeeshan> wait
[13:34:49] <zeeshan> from our earlier discussion
[13:34:56] <zeeshan> adding mass would mean you're shifting the lower frequency lower
[13:35:00] <zeeshan> which means you need to increase Kp
[13:35:14] <zeeshan> or do i have that backwards
[13:35:23] <pcw_home> it means you _can_ increase KP
[13:35:52] <zeeshan> so we've tuned it at a no-load state
[13:35:55] <zeeshan> which is the safest
[13:36:09] <zeeshan> by no load i mean non cutting / no extra weight
[13:36:16] <zeeshan> so it should not oscillatie
[13:36:36] <pcw_home> yes more mass will make it more stable
[13:37:00] <zeeshan> i guess this is where autotuning is benefficial
[13:37:03] <pcw_home> (unless you go into current limit, then funny things will happen)
[13:37:08] <atom1> pcw_home, do i need to update the hostmot2 driver for the 7I90?
[13:37:10] <zeeshan> they're basically trying to get the best performance possible for all scenarios
[13:37:41] <zeeshan> pcw_home: so when im cutting away for the first while or so
[13:37:48] <atom1> i commented out the 7i43 lines and get an error 'HOSTMOT2 DRIVER not found
[13:37:49] <pcw_home> atom1 I dont think so, i think ist on 2.6+
[13:37:56] <zeeshan> i should try to listen to the motors
[13:37:59] <zeeshan> and listen for oscillations?
[13:38:07] <atom1> running 2.6.5
[13:38:31] <zeeshan> Rab: what is price difference between those 2 drives
[13:38:38] <zeeshan> that youve found
[13:38:48] <pcw_home> I think you use hm2_7i90
[13:39:27] <Rab> zeeshan, they're all over the map. I'm just trying to identify a particular model to look for, or see which models might work.
[13:39:45] <atom1> on the CONFIG line?
[13:40:20] <zeeshan> Rab: i highly recommend be25a20ac if you can get it for a reasonable cost in comaprison to the be15a8
[13:40:37] <zeeshan> mainly because you do hall commutation with it, and it supports tachometers on top of hall and enc.
[13:40:43] <pcw_home> where you used to have hm2_7i43
[13:40:43] <zeeshan> hall velocity i mean
[13:40:46] <Rab> zeeshan, could be, eBay prices seem to have no relationship to the specs.
[13:40:54] <atom1> ok that's where i put it
[13:40:57] <zeeshan> Rab: i paid 180 for 5 of them
[13:41:03] <zeeshan> so you can get a gauge of price from that
[13:41:05] <atom1> DRIVER=hm2_7i90
[13:41:17] <zeeshan> they could go for sale for 40ish
[13:41:25] <atom1> also BOARD=7i90
[13:41:30] <zeeshan> since youre a scavenger like me
[13:41:32] <Rab> zeeshan, that sounds like a great deal. $80/ea is more typical.
[13:41:35] <zeeshan> you'll like that
[13:41:41] <atom1> CONFIG="num_encoders=2 num_stepgens=4 sserial_port_0=20xxxxxx"
[13:41:42] <zeeshan> since you can run whatever kind of servo you want
[13:41:45] <atom1> for the config line then
[13:42:02] <atom1> since the bit file is loaded in eeprom
[13:42:09] <Rab> zeeshan, my friend is checking out a defunct robotics warehouse in the Bay Area today. So I might get all kinds of crap for free.
[13:43:38] <zeeshan> nice man
[13:44:04] <zeeshan> i lied
[13:44:06] <zeeshan> i paid 240 for 5
[13:44:07] <atom1> hm2: no firmware specified in config modparam! the board had better have firmware configured already, or this won't work
[13:44:07] <zeeshan> not 180
[13:44:08] <atom1> haha
[13:44:13] <atom1> nice warning
[13:44:13] <zeeshan> 48 bux a drive
[13:45:27] <atom1> it's not showing the correct config though
[13:46:01] <atom1> sserial isn't showing up in dmesg
[13:46:30] <pcw_home> sserial does not show up unless remotes are connected
[13:46:38] <atom1> one is connected
[13:46:50] <pcw_home> well then its not working
[13:46:55] <atom1> i'll post dmesg
[13:48:58] <atom1> http://tom-itx.no-ip.biz:81/~webpage/cnc/configs/sherline/bitfiles/dmesg.txt
[13:49:51] <atom1> sserial is on IO 13, 15, 22, 23 with IO13 & 22 wired to a board
[13:52:02] <pcw_home> well no comms to remote for some reason
[13:52:09] <atom1> ok it's getting better... still got config errors from switching boards.
[13:52:51] <atom1> not sure i'll admit what it was...
[13:53:09] <atom1> the plug wasn't seated on the 7i47 for the sserial :(
[13:56:28] <pcw_home> Actually the driver should show sserial pins on enabled but non working channels (maybe with a no-go note)
[13:57:00] <pcw_home> so thats a minor driver bug
[13:57:08] <atom1> dmesg just shows IoPort for non wired sserial
[13:57:29] <pcw_home> Yeah thats really a bug
[13:57:30] <atom1> wired show Smart Serial Interface #0, pin TxData0 (Output)
[13:58:17] <atom1> i expected config errors switching boards
[13:58:25] <atom1> pretty sure i can get those
[13:59:05] <pcw_home> enabled but non-working should be something like
[13:59:07] <pcw_home> Smart Serial Interface #0, pin TxData0 (Output) Error: No device Found
[14:03:30] <atom1> mesaflash shows sseral now:
[14:03:34] <atom1> SSLBP port 0:
[14:03:34] <atom1> SSLBP Version: 1.43
[14:03:34] <atom1> SSLBP Channels: 2
[14:03:34] <atom1> SSLBP Baud Rate: 2500000
[14:03:34] <atom1> sserial device at channel 0: 7I84 GPIO (unit 0x12345678)
[14:03:35] <atom1> SwRevision = 14
[14:03:37] <atom1> HwRevision = 1
[14:03:39] <atom1> NVBaudRate = 2.5Mb
[14:03:41] <atom1> NVUnitNumber = 0x12345678
[14:03:43] <atom1> NVWatchDogTimeout = 50ms
[14:03:45] <atom1> SOFTWARE MODE Input_Output [index 00]
[14:03:47] <atom1> SOFTWARE MODE IO_Analog_FieldVoltage [index 01]
[14:03:49] <atom1> SOFTWARE MODE IO_Encoder_Analog [index 02]
[14:06:33] <atom1> zlog,
[14:06:36] <pcw_home> ha you got a non-released 7I84
[14:06:43] <atom1> :D
[14:06:47] <atom1> shh
[14:09:41] <zeeshan> haX
[14:10:10] <bobo_> zeeshan; I vote for inspecting servo motors and their tack's for carbon brush -brush holder -and their spring . will be a good time to find out what that brake really is
[14:10:22] <zeeshan> bobo_: i have the manual
[14:10:29] <zeeshan> it works
[14:10:31] <zeeshan> i aint takin it apart!
[14:10:38] <zeeshan> more fun to make parts
[14:11:17] <bobo_> brush servo communtator?
[14:11:32] <zeeshan> yes
[14:11:37] <zeeshan> id think its kinda like a car alternator
[14:12:28] <bobo_> alternator are cheep
[14:14:26] <zeeshan> http://i.imgur.com/ZiYcAnW.png
[14:14:31] <zeeshan> man i really caNNOT figure this out
[14:14:35] <zeeshan> no matter how i place the diode
[14:14:38] <zeeshan> i have a short circuit
[14:14:56] <zeeshan> can i add resistors
[14:14:57] <zeeshan> or something
[14:16:02] <atom1> what good's that gonna do?
[14:16:18] <atom1> there's a diode across the hydraulic solenoid
[14:16:29] <zeeshan> im looking at the brake
[14:16:41] <atom1> is your z_brake wired backwards
[14:16:49] <atom1> to handle a diode
[14:16:55] <zeeshan> its electromagnetic brake
[14:16:57] <bobo_> more like car generator . is the schematic for a Mikron or a maho mh400 ?
[14:17:03] <zeeshan> one way it engages, another it disengages
[14:17:09] <zeeshan> bobo_: for the mikron
[14:17:18] <atom1> if you have one there and one on the hydraulics they will conduct if they're not the same direction
[14:17:19] <zeeshan> its not for any trin
[14:17:29] <zeeshan> i built the diagram, its not the standard
[14:20:04] <zeeshan> http://i.imgur.com/FelqAzj.png
[14:20:12] <zeeshan> wont that prevent a short circuit
[14:20:20] <bobo_> the schematic showing a diode in series with/to brake coil ,is wrong or brake is not correct . or bobo is nuts
[14:20:44] <zeeshan> bobo_: there is no diode there
[14:20:45] <zeeshan> :P
[14:21:03] <zeeshan> the diagram i just posted has diode
[14:22:20] <bobo_> pin 207 diode 9y1
[14:22:41] <zeeshan> link of diagram?
[14:22:48] <Nick001-shop> <pcw_home> you around?
[14:22:54] <zeeshan> Nick001-shop: hes mine first!
[14:22:55] <zeeshan> :]
[14:23:09] <zeeshan> jk
[14:23:22] <pcw_home> for a bit
[14:23:36] <bobo_> one of your pre links today
[14:24:08] <Nick001-shop> need to settle on the boards I need to do this Hardinge
[14:24:31] <bobo_> boj0uvw.png ?
[14:25:52] <zeeshan> pcw_home: i promise last Q for the day!
[14:25:53] <zeeshan> http://i.imgur.com/FelqAzj.png
[14:25:56] <zeeshan> does this look good to you
[14:25:57] <bobo_> zeeshan link boj0uwv.png ?
[14:25:58] <zeeshan> the latching circuit
[14:26:19] <zeeshan> that diagram is the maho
[14:26:22] <zeeshan> 400e.
[14:26:50] <bobo_> zeeshan link boj0uvw ?
[14:26:55] <zeeshan> yes bobo
[14:26:56] <zeeshan> that link
[14:28:07] <Nick001-shop> my list has a 7i49 and 7i49hv - I think I need the 7i49hv like ssi got for his machine
[14:28:30] <pcw_home> you can replace the two diodes and resistor with one varistor (or say 200 Ohm 5W resistor)
[14:28:59] <bobo_> boj0uwv
[14:30:47] <pcw_home> Yeah its likely the resolvers are the same
[14:31:17] <zeeshan> pcw_home: im sorry but ive never used a varistor before
[14:31:35] <pcw_home> like a MOV device
[14:32:07] <zeeshan> yea but digikey is asking me for a lot of stuff
[14:32:12] <zeeshan> "current surge"
[14:32:18] <zeeshan> energy
[14:32:32] <zeeshan> varistor min voltage, varistooltage typical
[14:33:44] <bobo_> raw neon bulb ?
[14:34:32] <zeeshan> http://www.littelfuse.com/~/media/electronics_technical/application_notes/varistors/littelfuse_selecting_a_littelfuse_varistor_application_note.pdf
[14:34:35] <zeeshan> finally found a good pdf
[14:36:12] <zeeshan> okay i give up on the varistor
[14:36:16] <zeeshan> too much reading
[14:36:16] <zeeshan> haha
[14:36:30] <zeeshan> if i dont do it right ill blow something up
[14:37:14] <bobo_> raw neon would be approx 60 volt clamp
[14:37:58] <bobo_> raw = no series restor
[14:38:17] <pcw_home> well may not last long at 1A
[14:38:23] <zeeshan> lol
[14:38:43] <zeeshan> pcw_home: why did you say 200ohm
[14:38:45] <zeeshan> 5W
[14:38:53] <zeeshan> why not 1k
[14:38:59] <pcw_home> http://www.digikey.com/product-detail/en/MOV-10D560KTR/MOV-10D560KCT-ND/4318164
[14:39:00] <pcw_home> should be close
[14:39:17] <pcw_home> because 1K * 1A = 1000V
[14:39:38] <pcw_home> too bitey
[14:39:59] <zeeshan> but then theyre gonna sit there
[14:40:02] <zeeshan> drawing .12mA
[14:40:05] <zeeshan> 120mA
[14:40:11] <zeeshan> so i guess its a balancing act
[14:40:29] <pcw_home> well thats why you use a varistor :-)
[14:40:33] <zeeshan> haha
[14:40:43] <zeeshan> im gonan see if i can find something like the one you posted locally
[14:40:52] <zeeshan> will a tv circuit board have this
[14:40:59] <zeeshan> or radio
[14:41:19] <pcw_home> a TV may but it will probably be 600V or so
[14:42:33] <pcw_home> Dont know enough about your brake but you may be able to remove power after switching mode
[14:43:04] <zeeshan> thats what i did the other day
[14:43:16] <zeeshan> i just engaged it for like 1 sec (a tap on the 24vdc supply rail)
[14:43:25] <zeeshan> and it locked and it didnt need anymore power to lock further
[14:44:05] <zeeshan> i'd need 3 relays to do that right?
[14:45:15] <pcw_home> maybe not sure, its possible to get pretty clever with relays...
[14:45:24] * Loetmichel got some fish in his whiskey ;-) -> http://www.cyrom.org/palbum/main.php?g2_itemId=15544&g2_imageViewsIndex=1
[14:45:38] <pcw_home> bbl
[14:45:46] <zeeshan> either way i need the varistor right?
[14:46:09] <zeeshan> loetmichel
[14:46:10] <zeeshan> !!!!!!!!!!111
[14:46:15] <zeeshan> befor eyou get drunk
[14:46:19] <zeeshan> translate a manual for me!!!!!
[14:46:23] <zeeshan> :]
[14:46:36] <Loetmichel> thats a small glass
[14:46:47] <Loetmichel> no danger to get drunk from that
[14:46:50] <zeeshan> hhaha
[14:48:39] <PetefromTn_> Loetmichel Did you make a fish ice cube mold or something?
[14:49:35] <Loetmichel> PetefromTn_: bought it from ikea
[14:50:02] <Loetmichel> zeeshan: how big a manual?
[14:50:31] <zeeshan> https://pdf.yt/d/J7p7vtwzKOA8cGvy
[14:50:37] <zeeshan> 11&12 of the pdf
[14:50:57] <zeeshan> 7/11 , 7/12 on the physical page
[14:51:10] <zeeshan> under the section holding brake
[14:51:15] <zeeshan> halltebremse
[14:51:22] <zeeshan> you dont need to translate it fully
[14:51:30] <zeeshan> but i want an idea of what theyre sayin
[14:51:39] <Loetmichel> gimme a moment... have elite dangersous running in the BG, PC is a bit "unresoponsive
[14:51:58] <zeeshan> :D
[15:00:19] <bobo_> zeeshan ;looks very like ( page 7-12 top left illustration ) mh400 brake circuit
[15:01:43] <bobo_> ie no polarity change to brake/dis-brake
[15:02:13] <zeeshan> then what the hell is going on with my stuff.
[15:02:58] <PetefromTn_> what is the problem?
[15:03:03] <zeeshan> [15:37:24] <Loetmichel> the brake is a "power to free" type
[15:03:08] <zeeshan> loetmichel trsnslation the manual too
[15:03:14] <zeeshan> 15:38:08] <Loetmichel> i.E: closed without current and opens on current flow
[15:03:26] <bobo_> Mikron does like you
[15:03:47] <bobo_> does not like
[15:03:50] <zeeshan> haha
[15:04:03] <zeeshan> im just gonan use the mill as an X and Y milling machine
[15:04:05] <zeeshan> !@
[15:04:50] <bobo_> with a jack under the table ?
[15:04:57] <zeeshan> yea!
[15:05:06] <PetefromTn_> little bottle jack with stepper?
[15:05:08] <roycroft> i need to make some mounting blocks that will be repositionable on some 5/8" ss rails
[15:05:10] <zeeshan> LOL PetefromTn_
[15:05:23] <roycroft> i was looking for a 0.6255" reamer, but could only find 0.0260"
[15:05:34] <roycroft> is 10 thousandths too much slop for something like that?
[15:05:46] <roycroft> it's not a precision mounting, but i want to be able to move the blocks smoothly
[15:05:47] <PetefromTn_> thats way more than .01
[15:05:58] <roycroft> er, 0.6260"
[15:06:13] <roycroft> sorry
[15:06:16] <zeeshan> whats the tolerance on the 5/8 rail?
[15:06:18] <_methods> that might be tight
[15:06:22] <_methods> tgp rail?
[15:06:35] <roycroft> it's ss, and pretty tight tolerance
[15:06:40] <zeeshan> that doesnt help
[15:06:41] <zeeshan> lol
[15:06:41] <roycroft> i think +- 0.002" or so
[15:06:45] <_methods> is it tgp?
[15:06:51] <_methods> or ss rod?
[15:06:55] <roycroft> ss rod
[15:06:57] <zeeshan> roycroft: then neither will work
[15:06:58] <PetefromTn_> thats only .0005..
[15:07:10] <zeeshan> you need to get a .628 reamer
[15:07:22] <zeeshan> to ensure at least 0.001 clearance
[15:07:32] <_methods> what are the blocks made out of?
[15:07:37] <roycroft> doh, yes - i'm off by an order of magnitude
[15:07:44] <roycroft> unknown scrap, but probably 1018
[15:07:54] <zeeshan> in this case you look at maximum material condition
[15:08:03] <zeeshan> 5/8 rod = .627 MMC
[15:08:04] <_methods> i'd drop in bronze bushings if possible
[15:08:18] <roycroft> the blocks will hardly ever move
[15:08:29] <roycroft> like once/twice per year
[15:08:36] <_methods> oh well nm then lol
[15:08:41] <zeeshan> does it need to be accurate?
[15:08:47] <zeeshan> cause you should add more slop if you can.
[15:08:52] <roycroft> only enough that it's not frustrating to move them
[15:09:07] <roycroft> probably "reaming" the holes with a 5/8" twist drill would be fine
[15:09:11] <zeeshan> id leave a 3 thou gap then
[15:09:16] <zeeshan> yea
[15:09:49] <zeeshan> you said reeamer
[15:09:56] <roycroft> yes
[15:09:58] <zeeshan> so i assumed it had to be precise :P
[15:10:10] <roycroft> it just needs to be bigger than 0.6250"
[15:10:49] <roycroft> even if the rod was dead on precise, 0 clearance does not make for easy sliding
[15:10:57] <zeeshan> yea
[15:11:00] <zeeshan> thats considered a transition fit
[15:11:08] <PetefromTn_> slip fitment is USUALLY .001 or so..
[15:11:11] <zeeshan> which in my experience can need anywhere from 10-50lb of force
[15:11:21] <roycroft> i want finger force
[15:11:32] <roycroft> and i'm getting arthritic in my old age, so there's not a lot of finger force left
[15:11:47] <PetefromTn_> well take a caliper to your fingers so we can get an idea of thier strength ratio DOH!
[15:11:59] <zeeshan> you wont get finger force with regular slides
[15:12:02] <zeeshan> youll need ball bearing
[15:12:21] <roycroft> completely unnecessary
[15:12:27] <zeeshan> you're the one who said finger force!
[15:12:28] <zeeshan> lazy ass!
[15:12:37] <bobo_> paper in reamer land to increase size
[15:12:59] <roycroft> maybe i'll just take a boring head and enlarge the holes a bit until i get a slip fit
[15:13:03] <zeeshan> bobo_:
[15:13:06] <zeeshan> your wish is granted i guess
[15:13:08] <roycroft> i think i have a boring bit small enough to fit
[15:13:14] <zeeshan> i have to take this servo motor apart :-(
[15:13:33] <PetefromTn_> why?
[15:13:42] <zeeshan> brake is dysfunctional
[15:13:50] <zeeshan> it should automatically be engaging
[15:13:54] <zeeshan> when there is no current
[15:14:03] <zeeshan> but i have to give it current to engage
[15:14:05] <zeeshan> something is up
[15:14:14] <bobo_> good for me not so good for you
[15:14:38] <PetefromTn_> are you sure that is not how it was designed to operate...doubtful.
[15:15:05] <zeeshan> PetefromTn_: Loetmichel translated the manual for me
[15:15:21] <zeeshan> and it described that it should engage with no current
[15:15:22] <PetefromTn_> jeez sucks to have to translate manuals LOL
[15:15:28] <zeeshan> LOL yea!
[15:15:30] <zeeshan> sicherungsautomat
[15:15:34] <zeeshan> what the hell is that
[15:15:36] <PetefromTn_> but that is how mine works and from what I understand how most work
[15:15:38] <zeeshan> circuit protection?
[15:15:44] <zeeshan> PetefromTn_: yea man
[15:15:52] <zeeshan> it makes no sense to have to apply current
[15:15:54] <zeeshan> to engage a brake
[15:15:56] <zeeshan> thats not failsafe
[15:17:37] <roycroft> excellent - i have a 1/2" boring bit that's long enough
[15:18:06] <Loetmichel> zeeshan: sounds like the brake is either demagnetized or another type that is energized for braking
[15:18:24] <Loetmichel> or you have put too much current thru it
[15:18:51] <Loetmichel> it works by building up an "reversed magnetic field" on the brakes core
[15:19:11] <PetefromTn_> I understand that taking servo motors apart can damge them somehow I would try to see if you can take apart the brake without dismantling the whole motor if possible.
[15:19:19] <Loetmichel> which counteracts the internal rqare earth magnets taht provide the "nonenergized" braking force
[15:19:43] <Loetmichel> so the brake loosenes
[15:19:47] <zeeshan> PetefromTn_: it looks like its all part of it
[15:19:48] <zeeshan> :(
[15:20:04] <bobo_> or it was made in china
[15:20:04] <Loetmichel> if you put WAY to much current trhu you will demagnetize said internal rare earth magnets
[15:20:08] <zeeshan> Loetmichel: how can you put too much current through it
[15:20:12] <PetefromTn_> yeah mine is that way too just thought I would explain..
[15:20:14] <Loetmichel> bobo_: siemens: i dount it
[15:20:25] <Loetmichel> zeeshan: simple: too much voltage
[15:20:31] <zeeshan> im only giving it 24vdc
[15:20:35] <Loetmichel> i would say: 48V could do the trick
[15:20:50] <bobo_> they snuck it in
[15:21:11] <zeeshan> when i read wiki
[15:21:12] <zeeshan> it says this:
[15:21:43] <zeeshan> A permanent magnet holding brake looks very similar to a standard power applied electromagnetic brake. Instead of squeezing a friction disk, via springs, it uses permanent magnets to attract a single face armature. When the brake is engaged, the permanent magnets create magnetic lines of flux, which can in turn attract the armature to the brake housing. To disengage the brake, power is applied to
[15:21:52] <zeeshan> the coil which sets up an alternate magnetic field that cancels out the magnetic flux of the permanent magnets.
[15:22:07] <zeeshan> that wiki description is what i am experiecing.
[15:22:11] <zeeshan> that ihave to reverse the polarity on the coil
[15:22:13] <zeeshan> to make it switch
[15:24:22] <bobo_> magnet or electro mag I vote for no power ==braked
[15:24:33] <zeeshan> one thing i havent tried is this
[15:24:50] <zeeshan> after disengaging the brake
[15:25:02] <zeeshan> then shorting the brake terminals together
[15:25:06] <zeeshan> through a resistor
[15:25:16] <zeeshan> i doubt that's gonan work. its not like its a capacitor :)
[15:25:31] * zeeshan hates electronics :(!!
[15:26:15] <bobo_> this is more like a light bulb
[15:26:39] <PetefromTn_> your Z is the KNEE right?
[15:26:50] <zeeshan> yes PetefromTn_
[15:27:25] <PetefromTn_> so if the brake failed the table will roll to the bottom of travel then.
[15:27:31] <zeeshan> yes
[15:27:58] <bobo_> roll=race
[15:28:20] <PetefromTn_> does it fall quickly when it does fall it sounds like you have already experienced this right
[15:29:50] <zeeshan> haha
[15:29:58] <zeeshan> like 3 inch / min
[15:30:12] <zeeshan> once it gains momentum
[15:30:12] <PetefromTn_> does it accelerate when it falls?
[15:30:16] <zeeshan> nahh
[15:30:18] <zeeshan> 3ipm peak
[15:30:24] <PetefromTn_> wow thats not bad..
[15:30:33] <zeeshan> its ball screws
[15:30:37] <PetefromTn_> my millhead starts slow but quickly accelerates
[15:30:38] <zeeshan> but theres still gibs that put friction
[15:31:06] <zeeshan> PetefromTn_: hehehe
[15:31:08] <zeeshan> thats worse!
[15:31:08] <PetefromTn_> I only let it fall a couple inches one time to the forklift forks LOL
[15:31:12] <zeeshan> cause if you let it fall
[15:31:17] <zeeshan> you can hurt your spindle and your table face
[15:31:32] <PetefromTn_> yeah but I never let that happen.
[15:31:39] <zeeshan> unlike me
[15:31:41] <zeeshan> whos already crashed the table
[15:31:43] <zeeshan> :-)
[15:31:59] <bobo_> approx 500lbs on a ball screw all vertical and gravity sucks
[15:32:16] <PetefromTn_> it was supported with the forks of the guy I bought it from's Forklift just wanted to see how heavy it was and if I could crank it up manually which I was able to do..
[15:35:45] <bobo_> 3 inch/min must have been non oiled (squeek squeek ) gumed up ways
[15:36:17] <PetefromTn_> or a tight pitch screw
[15:36:21] <zeeshan> 5mm screw
[15:36:30] <zeeshan> .196"
[15:36:39] <zeeshan> actually
[15:36:42] <zeeshan> it might not be 5mm.
[15:36:49] <zeeshan> that was x and y. i cant access z.
[15:36:56] <zeeshan> its hidden behind a telescoping cover
[15:37:46] <bobo_> cover that"s covered dang
[15:38:22] <zeeshan> i figured out
[15:38:42] <zeeshan> how to use mesa to engage this thing.
[15:39:40] <zeeshan> http://i.imgur.com/HrNusZe.png
[15:39:45] <zeeshan> please do an insanity check with me!
[15:40:03] <zeeshan> as drawn is default state.
[15:40:26] <zeeshan> wait.
[15:40:28] <zeeshan> whoops
[15:41:08] <zeeshan> its not fail safe
[15:41:09] <zeeshan> :(
[15:43:43] <bobo_> I vote for diodes across relay coils at least those hooked to the 7I77
[15:43:56] <zeeshan> thats intenral
[15:43:57] <zeeshan> in the relay
[15:44:09] <zeeshan> im try8ing to figure out
[15:44:19] <zeeshan> how to use 2 relays, independently actuated from 7i77
[15:44:24] <zeeshan> to have 3 states.
[15:44:28] <zeeshan> no power.
[15:44:38] <zeeshan> disengage
[15:44:39] <zeeshan> engage
[15:44:45] <zeeshan> but i need it to default to engage
[15:44:50] <zeeshan> if power is removed.
[15:49:06] <SpeedEvil> do you have dual throw relays?
[15:49:10] <zeeshan> no
[15:49:14] <bobo_> try engage that is over riden by dis-engage it still would not give me a warm fuzzy feeling
[15:49:16] <SpeedEvil> that is -normally opened and normally closed contacts?
[15:49:21] <zeeshan> SpeedEvil: yes
[15:49:44] <SpeedEvil> you clearly need to wire it so that both off is engage
[15:49:53] <zeeshan> SpeedEvil: dont belittle me!
[15:49:58] * SpeedEvil would draw it up but is too tired.
[15:50:12] <zeeshan> i kid
[15:50:14] <zeeshan> dont bother i have it
[15:50:18] <zeeshan> you can help check it :-)
[15:50:30] <zeeshan> http://i.imgur.com/ukgL9Wh.png
[15:50:40] <zeeshan> default state is engage right now.
[15:50:57] <zeeshan> i need to change both output 1 and output 3 state
[15:51:05] <zeeshan> to reverse the current flow
[15:51:22] <zeeshan> but if i change either output1 OR output 2 to be opposite states
[15:51:31] <zeeshan> it'll stop current flow
[15:53:20] <zeeshan> so my plane of action is this, on initial startup, current will be flowing through the brake to engage it.
[15:53:27] <zeeshan> after linuxcnc is run
[15:53:57] <zeeshan> a startup condition will be called to change output 3's state. now current will not flow anymore, lessening the load on the coils of the brake and the power supply
[15:54:00] <PetefromTn_> that sucks you will be relying on power to be on AND off with the brake.
[15:54:13] <zeeshan> when axis has machine on called
[15:54:21] <zeeshan> it will flip the state of output #1
[15:54:32] <zeeshan> brake will disengage.
[15:54:51] <zeeshan> and 5 seconds later
[15:55:02] <zeeshan> it will remove power from it (brake will continue to be disengaged)
[15:55:14] <zeeshan> PetefromTn_: yea man
[15:55:16] <zeeshan> it SUCKS
[15:55:36] <zeeshan> is going to make software setup a bit annoying
[15:55:47] <zeeshan> im gonna definitely test the brake out before hooking anything up
[15:55:54] <zeeshan> hooking up the Z axis i mean
[15:56:03] <zeeshan> ensure its doing what i want it to
[15:56:18] <PetefromTn_> is there any kind of bumper at the bottom of travel in case of a failure? just curious..
[15:56:30] <bobo_> foot
[15:56:44] <PetefromTn_> besides your feet I mean LOL
[15:56:50] <zeeshan> to be honest
[15:56:52] <zeeshan> i havent paid attention
[15:57:32] <zeeshan> i wish i had a varistor
[15:57:35] <bobo_> may be top of ballscrew
[15:57:37] <zeeshan> id be more inclined to go test this right now
[15:58:08] <zeeshan> http://pastebin.com/4PaRqiKY
[15:58:12] <zeeshan> thats the closest varistor i can find locally
[15:58:15] <zeeshan> i dont know if tiw ill work
[15:59:41] <bobo_> zeeshan: if brake is only pulsed than a neon could/should work
[15:59:56] <zeeshan> bobo_: not sure how long the duration of pulse needs to be
[16:00:04] <zeeshan> i will have to find that out through testing
[16:01:00] <SpeedEvil> what for?
[16:01:09] <bobo_> try a 40 watt 120 volt lightbulb
[16:01:11] <zeeshan> SpeedEvil:
[16:01:13] <zeeshan> the varistor?
[16:01:16] <SpeedEvil> yes
[16:01:28] <zeeshan> for back emf?
[16:01:34] <zeeshan> current spike
[16:01:56] <zeeshan> bobo_: haha
[16:02:03] <zeeshan> do you seriously want me to put a light bulb in my enclosure
[16:02:12] <zeeshan> :D
[16:02:27] <SpeedEvil> current spike - driven by what
[16:02:55] <bobo_> just to test across brake coil
[16:02:58] <zeeshan> SpeedEvil: my electronics knowledge is not good, so please know that.
[16:03:12] <SpeedEvil> If you don' overly care about power consumption - hten simply putting a resistor of the same resistance of the coil across it works well
[16:03:13] <zeeshan> but my understanding of it is that you need a diode in parallel with a solenoid
[16:03:27] <SpeedEvil> this means that when it turns off, it will go to double the nominal voltage, but no more
[16:04:02] <zeeshan> current it draws 1A
[16:04:06] <zeeshan> wouldnt that mean itll draw 2A?
[16:04:12] <SpeedEvil> yes
[16:04:19] <zeeshan> that is not a big deal
[16:04:36] <zeeshan> as long as it doesnt spike
[16:04:59] <zeeshan> youre basically dscribing a parallel RL circuit
[16:05:15] <furrywolf> completely off-topic question: I'm flying tomorrow, and need a way to kill many many hours on a plane. anyone have a mythbusters collection and a fast connection?
[16:05:45] <furrywolf> normally I can't stand TV, but it's that or try reading on a noisy plane and the invariable 27 screaming children all seated around you...
[16:05:55] <zeeshan> furrywolf: wher eyou going to
[16:06:24] <furrywolf> new jersey. the unpleasant side of the country.
[16:07:07] <zeeshan> SpeedEvil: would i need a 30watt resistor
[16:08:44] <bobo_> not for a pulsed signal try 5watt
[16:08:50] <zeeshan> remember
[16:08:55] <zeeshan> it might be as much as 5seconds
[16:08:57] * furrywolf hopes someone here has them downloaded, and can share them with a non-torrent-using person
[16:08:59] <zeeshan> sometimes even longer
[16:10:00] <bobo_> see why the orig cab was sooooooo large
[16:10:07] <zeeshan> lol
[16:10:14] <zeeshan> no i dont
[16:13:00] <zeeshan> why are people so againist using varistors
[16:13:08] <zeeshan> SpeedEvil: is the 3rd person whos like why use a varistor
[16:16:32] <bobo_> varistors heat up are not precise (mfg slop ) used mostly a a cheep half way fix
[16:16:51] <zeeshan> thats what pcw recommends
[16:16:53] <zeeshan> and so does siemens!
[16:17:41] <bobo_> they are quick to implement
[16:18:27] <zeeshan> i think i understand how to select em
[16:18:37] <zeeshan> you first decide what you want the clamping voltage to be
[16:18:53] <zeeshan> then ensure the rms voltage is adequate for your regular circuit use
[16:19:49] <zeeshan> then you choose surge current a
[16:19:52] <zeeshan> capability
[16:19:53] * furrywolf isn't good at downloading things, and needs to find someone who is!
[16:20:00] <zeeshan> furrywolf: what do you wanna draw
[16:20:36] <furrywolf> ?
[16:20:46] <SpeedEvil> furrywolf: tip #1 to being good at it
[16:20:47] <zeeshan> i read that as draw.
[16:20:50] <zeeshan> im clearly losing my inmd
[16:20:51] <SpeedEvil> Have a fast connection
[16:20:55] <zeeshan> stupid electronics!
[16:21:07] <zeeshan> SpeedEvil: why areyou against varistors!
[16:21:07] <furrywolf> speedevil: bah
[16:21:42] <furrywolf> I want to "draw" the last dozen or so episodes of mythbusters, so if I get sick of trying to read, I have something to do for the 16-ish hours I'm stuck on a plane...
[16:23:08] <SpeedEvil> download from what source?
[16:23:23] <furrywolf> the internet. :P
[16:23:31] <furrywolf> anywhere that has a functional file
[16:23:32] <furrywolf> heh
[16:24:18] <Deejay> gn8
[16:25:06] <SpeedEvil> Do you mean over a decent connection, or your crappy nets?
[16:25:57] <furrywolf> my plan is to fetch them onto my linode now, then get them from there while waiting at the airport, which has 4g.
[16:26:32] <SpeedEvil> ah
[16:26:49] <SpeedEvil> In principle, find a suitable torrent on http://kickass.to/ for example
[16:27:29] <furrywolf> yes, except I have no torrent client on my linode, linode does not like torrenting users, and my home isp has torrents completely blocked.
[16:27:51] <SpeedEvil> ah
[16:28:23] <furrywolf> I used to be able to download them through a proxy, but now my isp even blocks udp tracker connection attempts, and they seem harder to proxy than http...
[16:28:39] <SpeedEvil> https://www.usenetserver.com/
[16:29:25] * furrywolf suspects that's a "send us money" link
[16:29:43] <SpeedEvil> offers a 10gb free trial - you'd then need to find a suitable downloader - not hard
[16:30:58] <furrywolf> got a few of them downloading now by fetching the video urls on streaming sites
[16:31:55] <SpeedEvil> Dure - if you can find sites where that works - great
[16:31:59] <SpeedEvil> not always possible
[16:32:35] <furrywolf> 95% of links seem to be "Deleted due to copyright complaint" or similar. heh.
[16:34:08] <Jymmm> http://www.tubeplus.me/player/2124462/MythBusters/season_14/episode_1/Star_Wars%3A_Revenge_of_the_Myth/%22
[16:35:00] <bobo_> zeeshan : might LeelooMinai have a part you could borrow ? hope this isn't a fo-paw
[16:36:37] <zeeshan> :P
[16:40:35] <roycroft> i opened a hole up 0.005" with a boring head and the rod passes through nicely now
[16:40:54] <roycroft> sometimes i forget that a boring head is an adjustable diameter drill bit :)
[16:42:05] <zeeshan> nice
[16:42:05] <zeeshan> :D
[16:42:59] <SpeedEvil> :)
[16:43:45] <zeeshan> SpeedEvil: any other sugestions?
[16:43:49] <zeeshan> for my setup!
[16:43:56] <SpeedEvil> zeeshan: I'm barely awake
[16:44:02] <zeeshan> Sleep!
[16:47:50] <furrywolf> I really wish my home connection worked like my linode.
[16:47:55] <furrywolf> why the hell don't I get 10MB/sec here? :P
[16:49:27] <bobo_> zeeshan; varistors work by heating up , thus changing ohms but what is their recovery time ?
[16:49:43] <zeeshan> bobo_: no idea
[16:49:52] <zeeshan> im still staring at my diagrom
[16:49:56] <zeeshan> and trying ti figure out how i can use 2 diodes
[16:50:01] <zeeshan> no matter how i look at it is.
[16:50:02] <zeeshan> it doesnt work.
[16:50:34] <PCW> bobo_ PTCs work by heating up, not varistors
[16:50:46] <furrywolf> what are you trying to do?
[16:50:52] * furrywolf missed the start of this conversation
[16:50:58] <zeeshan> http://i.imgur.com/ZiYcAnW.png
[16:51:01] <zeeshan> supress that circuit
[16:51:10] <zeeshan> i dont have access to a varistor
[16:51:12] <roycroft> my comcastic connection just got bumped up to 50Mb/s
[16:51:13] <zeeshan> i only have diodes
[16:51:22] <roycroft> so i'm getting a steady 6Mb/s on a good day
[16:51:28] <zeeshan> couple of 5.6ohm 25 watt resistors
[16:51:33] <roycroft> until 5:10 pm, when all my neighbors get home from work
[16:51:37] <roycroft> then i'm lucky to get 1Mb/s
[16:51:52] <furrywolf> image does not exist.
[16:52:23] <zeeshan> er
[16:52:25] <zeeshan> wrong diagram thats why
[16:52:33] <zeeshan> http://i.imgur.com/ukgL9Wh.png
[16:52:34] <zeeshan> there we go
[16:52:41] <PCW> a 20 cent varistor will work fine (and dissipate power only for 20 or so ms when switcing)
[16:53:03] <PCW> a RC snubber will work also
[16:53:42] <zeeshan> i must be calculating rresistor power rating wrong
[16:53:47] <zeeshan> i keep getting 27Watt
[16:53:59] <zeeshan> that seems overly large for this,.
[16:54:03] <furrywolf> the z-brake?
[16:54:07] <zeeshan> yes
[16:54:17] <furrywolf> and you're trying to prevent relay contact arcing?
[16:54:20] <bobo_> furrywoly; trying not to disassemble motor to find out why it's brake doesn't function as mfg says
[16:54:28] <zeeshan> i dont care about relay contact arcing
[16:54:33] <zeeshan> im more worried about blowing up my power supply
[17:26:09] <zeeshan> those toriods are expensive
[17:36:14] <SpeedEvil> not if you steal them.
[17:36:30] <zeeshan> sleep SpeedEvil
[17:36:33] <zeeshan> you are dreaming!
[17:36:51] <SpeedEvil> furrywolf: what do you want - ~60V out?
[17:36:57] <SpeedEvil> What's the cap voltage
[17:37:14] <furrywolf> 75V
[17:37:20] * SpeedEvil needs to get his arbitrary waveform generator/welder built.
[17:37:28] <SpeedEvil> that should be plenty
[17:37:41] <furrywolf> more like 54v
[17:37:53] <furrywolf> (40 * sqrt(2) - 1.4)
[17:38:27] <furrywolf> I wouldn't mind a few more volts, but that's the closest I found used cheap on ebay.
[17:43:46] <SpeedEvil> Don't forget *1.1 (or 1.2) because the transformer is unloaded, *1.05 for tollerance of the transformer worst case, *1.1 for high line voltage
[17:44:06] <SpeedEvil> *1.41 for sqrt(2)
[17:44:20] <SpeedEvil> Oh - you said htat
[17:46:07] <furrywolf> I'm still trying to decide if I should bother with a bleeder resistor.
[17:47:18] <SpeedEvil> you have most of 100J in that cap.
[17:47:34] <SpeedEvil> That's quite enough to move axes, if things go wrong
[17:47:40] <furrywolf> based on my quick tests, the drivers do a good job bleeding down on their own.
[17:47:41] <SpeedEvil> unexpectedly
[17:48:06] <furrywolf> with my benchtop supply with reasonably sized output caps, only a couple seconds down to below shutdown voltage.
[17:48:29] <SpeedEvil> If you've got a double pole master power on/off switch, that would work fine too
[17:48:45] <furrywolf> I have a single pole AC power switch.
[17:49:56] <SpeedEvil> A very obvious 'danger' LED then
[17:52:44] <furrywolf> yes, it has a few of those.
[17:53:14] <furrywolf> the biggest of which being the "you turned the spindle on but the computer has it turned off" led, reminding you it could start without you doing anything.
[17:57:19] <zeeshan> if i change the current limit of my servos
[17:57:21] <zeeshan> will that change tuning?
[17:57:49] <zeeshan> velocity loop perhaps? :)
[17:58:34] <furrywolf> if you're driving it to full power, yes
[18:01:30] <zeeshan> okay
[18:07:24] <furrywolf> "Ailing electronics retailer RadioShack is teetering ever closer to insolvency, reports claim, with a potential bankruptcy filing to come as soon as next month." meh
[18:07:36] <malcom2073> I'd love to care
[18:07:37] <malcom2073> I really would
[18:08:39] <furrywolf> their closing would mean I have to order just about everything online
[18:09:09] <furrywolf> whoops, need six resistors, only have five? put the project on the shelf for a week.
[18:10:28] <malcom2073> True, I'll miss paying $1 for a single resistor
[18:10:40] <malcom2073> but then again, there is a *real* electronics shop 30 minutes away from me so that helps.
[18:11:08] <furrywolf> yeah, you're probably not in the middle of nowhere.
[18:11:48] <malcom2073> Middle of nowhere east-coast style, not middle of nowhere west coast style heh
[18:11:48] <furrywolf> there's only one electronics store near here, and they suck... prices comparable to radioshack or worse, closed more than they're open, unfriendly staff, not a lot of useful parts at all.
[18:12:05] <furrywolf> I can get resistors there, and that's about it.
[18:12:20] <malcom2073> Ah that sucks
[18:12:29] <malcom2073> yeah this place is expensive, but sometimes worth it
[18:13:32] <furrywolf> and they keep banker's hours, so you're screwed if you have a job, unless you want to take your lunch break there.
[18:18:05] <PCW> zeeshan: you should not hit the drives peak current limit (you will get an immediate following error)
[18:18:54] <furrywolf> it also annoys me because radioshack was finally heading back in the right direction... one of the local stores started stocking an arduino display with interesting gadgets, and another local one was installing a 3d printer and electronics workbench... these things are good for getting people interested in electronics and manufacturing.
[18:19:16] <PCW> (BTW you should set your ferror limits to something reasonable once an axis is tuned)
[18:19:48] <PCW> ferrors are a safety feature...
[18:25:13] <furrywolf> one of the staff claimed they were going to set up an electronics workbench where kids could come in and build random stuff on breadboards for free... back when I was a kid, that would have been great.
[18:25:17] <malcom2073> Too little, too late
[18:26:55] <furrywolf> I still want to open a hackerspace (although under a less stupid name) one of these days.
[18:28:15] <malcom2073> Me too! I have a polebarn that would be perfect if I get a concrete floor and heat/cool it, I plan on having my mill and router out there eventually (let them use the router, not the mill haha)
[18:29:10] <furrywolf> space, money, and time are why mine isn't happening. heh.
[18:29:15] <furrywolf> space here is stupidly expensive.
[18:30:12] <malcom2073> Ah, I live in the middle of nowhere, so space is cheap
[18:30:31] <malcom2073> But close enough that I might get some people to come by
[18:41:08] <bobo_> malcom2073: about what is (rough) going $ amount fo say 8 acres of buildable land ?
[18:42:52] <malcom2073> bobo_: Buildable? It doesn't, but you can buy a farm an apply for permits, 40 acre next door to me just sold for $350k with a house and a bunch of barns on the land
[18:44:29] <bobo_> thanks just wondered
[18:44:30] <malcom2073> Sorry, by buildable you mean flat, or zoned for building? Most of the farmland is relativly flat.
[18:48:00] <bobo_> buildable = not on vertical cliff------not bottom of flood area -----beyond the you will build our wy or it's the hiway
[19:05:06] <furrywolf> http://www.theregister.co.uk/2015/01/16/watch_spacexs_falcon_crash_land_on_floating_barge_after_fluidic_fail/ oops
[19:05:51] <furrywolf> that they even got it on the barge at a reasonable velocity is impressive... but not quite at the right angle. heh.
[19:06:26] <_methods> horseshoes hand grenades
[19:06:44] <_methods> relanding rockets?
[19:06:50] <furrywolf> yep
[19:08:21] <furrywolf> "rapid unscheduled disassembly" I shall need to use that term in the future.
[19:13:23] <SpeedEvil> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W1pvUlQgYtk#t=18 this is not CNC
[19:13:32] <SpeedEvil> How the japanese roll their joints.
[19:14:39] <furrywolf> bbl
[19:15:55] <SpeedEvil> (awesome woodwork joints in construction - thinking about the kinematics is _important_ in both this and CNC
[19:52:05] <bobo_> PetefromTn: #40 for the Seiko watch thing http://www.garagejournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=185104
[19:55:32] <PetefromTn_> that about sums things up nicely...
[19:55:33] <SpeedEvil> Actually - no - I take that back - it's quite on topic
[19:55:43] <bobo_> poor Nick
[19:55:47] <SpeedEvil> I want a CNC wood-morticer
[19:58:37] <bobo_> et
[20:00:19] <bobo_> PetefromTn: any thing new on Mills tool changer ?
[20:00:43] <PetefromTn_> yup its so new that it has not even been born yet heh
[20:00:53] <PetefromTn_> unfortunately
[20:01:26] <PetefromTn_> right now while I would LOVE to have it working I would actually rather get imperial dimensions working so I can use the cutter comp or at least start playing with it.
[20:03:34] <bobo_> born or re-born why not a nother hard drive for proof of concept say . later use on lathe
[20:04:33] <PetefromTn_> yeah I considered that. I am expecting a paycheck from the part time place hopefully tomorrow and I will be trying to buy the spindle motor and if there is enough maybe get the ballscrew ordered.
[20:04:58] <PetefromTn_> Then I wanted to start getting the PC put together for it. Looking at that J1900 board or whatever PCW was recommending.
[20:06:03] <PetefromTn_> the toolchanger on the lathe is a ways off.
[20:06:31] <PetefromTn_> I wish I had the basic machine working right now I actually have had several lathe oriented parts requests lately and it is killing me not being able to take care of them.
[20:10:13] <bobo_> I thought the mill had a tool changer but was not programed into linuxcnc yet ?
[20:10:27] <PetefromTn_> yup it does and it doesn't yet
[20:11:12] <PetefromTn_> it has a 20 tool carousel style toolchanger
[20:11:52] <bobo_> great
[20:12:47] <PetefromTn_> we actually have everything integrated into the control all the switches and motors and whatnot just have to get orient working before we can try the thing out.
[20:17:20] <bobo_> was wondering about a soft tool holder ,used for first change try-out
[20:17:21] <Tom_itx> i was thinking about orient the other day...
[20:17:56] <Tom_itx> you want the spindle to stop in the same spot every time right?
[20:18:07] <bobo_> yep
[20:18:11] <PetefromTn_> well yeah
[20:18:37] <Tom_itx> what about a modified M6?
[20:18:40] <PetefromTn_> the spindle encoder seems to be working beautifully. I rigid tapped a shitload of holes the other day..
[20:21:06] <cradek> whee!
[20:21:16] <PetefromTn_> huh?
[20:21:25] <cradek> oh I just like to hear that
[20:21:42] <PetefromTn_> you been smokin' the peace pipe?
[20:21:52] <cradek> I wrote rigid tapping one day in like 2007
[20:22:01] <cradek> and it brings us all so much joy :-)
[20:22:11] <PetefromTn_> it sure brought me some joy the other day man..
[20:22:14] <Tom_itx> good you did
[20:22:27] <PetefromTn_> watching the machine do all that work was a thing of beauty to behold hehe
[20:22:35] <cradek> I'm not drunk but I am working on it a bit
[20:22:59] <PetefromTn_> I started off doing it kinda shallow but after a few realized it was a piece of cake and was running it like .625 deep...
[20:23:08] <cradek> spiral point?
[20:23:10] <PetefromTn_> Kinda want to try a rigid peck tap
[20:23:10] <Tom_itx> what i had in mind for the M6 was when it's called it also calls a sub that moves the spindle at a very slow rate and stops at the index pulse then the M6 is complete
[20:23:14] <PetefromTn_> spiral flute
[20:23:26] <cradek> ahh those aren't as great but they're still pretty great
[20:23:55] <PetefromTn_> why do you say that they exacuate the chips nicely whereas the spiral point push the chips down usually.
[20:23:59] <Tom_itx> so after the previous spindle rate was done, it slows until the index is reached then stops. then the previous S word is restored or changed to the new tool S value
[20:24:43] <cradek> yeah it's just that they're not as strong, but if your holes don't go through it's the only choice
[20:25:24] <PetefromTn_> this one is a 3 flute morse tap spiral flute. It has tapped a ton of holes for me without problems..
[20:25:25] <cradek> Tom_itx: why do you want orient when you turn off the spindle?
[20:26:03] <Tom_itx> i'm thinking of a way to orient the spindle for his tool changer
[20:26:14] <PetefromTn_> I am not sure I understand the idea
[20:26:26] <Tom_itx> i haven't looked into it alot but was thinking about it the other day
[20:26:35] <Tom_itx> been too busy fixing my own junk
[20:26:38] <cradek> I'm sure glad my vmc has a mechanical orient
[20:26:54] <Tom_itx> it can't be that hard to do
[20:26:55] <PetefromTn_> the issue we are having is that the Hitachi VFD right now is setup with modbus control
[20:27:08] <Tom_itx> it has a brake though
[20:27:20] <PetefromTn_> what does
[20:27:26] <Tom_itx> your vfd
[20:27:33] <PetefromTn_> I dunno..
[20:27:47] <PetefromTn_> it is the WJ200-110LF
[20:28:51] <PetefromTn_> we have the feeback configured and working since the rigid tapping is working not sure where to begin to get it to electronically orient. I suppose it is some kinda PID setup..
[20:30:09] <unfy> they still haven't shipped my scope.
[20:30:17] <unfy> chinese bastards starting to piss me off ._.
[20:31:10] <PetefromTn_> I actually called Standard Modern in Canada today to ask them about the spindle motor that came in my lathe.
[20:31:31] <bobo_> PID ------Pete's inspired developement /
[20:31:40] <unfy> heh
[20:31:42] <PetefromTn_> They said the guy I needed to talk to was out to lunch so they took my info and told me he would call me when he got back in
[20:32:04] <PetefromTn_> never heard from em...
[20:32:32] <PetefromTn_> Pete's inability to decifer what the hell to do with his machinery LOL
[20:32:38] <bobo_> bot-u -lisim
[20:33:34] <bobo_> no more lunch for him
[20:33:44] <PetefromTn_> just ate hehe
[20:34:26] <bobo_> no the canadian guy
[20:34:34] <PetefromTn_> oh
[20:37:11] <bobo_> Pete does Micro Center stock that board that PCW refered to ?
[20:37:33] <PetefromTn_> not sure.. I think it was newegg or something..
[20:38:42] <bobo_> yes but newegg i thought was on-line only
[20:39:17] <PetefromTn_> whats wrong with that?
[20:39:50] <PetefromTn_> http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813157494&cm_re=J1900-_-13-157-494-_-Product not sure exactly but that looks like the one.
[20:40:56] <bobo_> would rather use phone
[20:42:07] <PetefromTn_> (800) 390-1119
[20:42:25] <bobo_> thanks
[20:53:00] <bobo_> Pete does your home have an electronic air cleaner/filter ? was thinking about conners mold deal
[20:53:28] <PetefromTn_> http://www.ebay.com/itm/2013-Haas-VF2SS-CNC-Vertical-Machining-Center-Low-Low-Hours-/181642372411?&_trksid=p2056016.l4276 At it can all be yours for the LOW LOW price of...hehe
[20:53:49] <PetefromTn_> what do you mean?
[20:53:55] <unfy> low low hours for low low price!
[20:54:08] <PetefromTn_> yeah man and it has probing too..
[20:54:18] * unfy gets wet
[20:54:22] <unfy> probing :3
[20:54:25] <PetefromTn_> thats the super speed model
[20:55:18] <PetefromTn_> side mount toolchanger
[20:55:23] <PetefromTn_> spindle and tool probes
[20:55:42] <PetefromTn_> 12kRPM spindle cartridge.
[20:56:08] <PetefromTn_> nice machine for the price really..
[20:56:38] <PetefromTn_> but they probably have more money in that tool probe than I have in my entire machine hehe
[20:57:36] <bobo_> the older electronic air clearners also made small amount of ozone . ozone stops most mold
[20:58:29] <PetefromTn_> well when I tore apart my ducting and air conditioning system to install the brand new unit in our home recently everything looked good. There was no mold or moisture anywhere and the ducting looked relatively clean inside
[20:59:14] <PetefromTn_> there is an option for a infa red air cleaner you can install in the ducting before the unit if you want but I was not able to swing it with the overall cost of the machine.
[21:00:45] <bobo_> could you UV ? IR just heats
[21:01:06] <PetefromTn_> actually I don't remember maybe it was UV
[21:01:53] <PetefromTn_> it was a module they offered for install just inside the input of the unit.
[21:02:08] <PetefromTn_> so far knock on wood the new unit is working beautifully.
[21:02:41] <bobo_> UV floresent bulbs are not high dollar
[21:05:16] <bobo_> mold doesent enjoy UV either
[21:07:28] <SpeedEvil> 30hp - that'smore than my car.
[21:09:47] <PetefromTn_> yeah but it's HAAS Power hehe
[21:09:59] <PetefromTn_> supposedly it is not really that much
[21:10:19] <PetefromTn_> besides WTF kind of car do you drive with less than 30HP?
[21:11:08] <malcom2073> gokart?
[21:11:25] <bobo_> could have furry ride it east save on shipping
[21:12:09] <zeeshan> pcw_home: THANK YOU
[21:12:14] <zeeshan> for reminding me to set ferror.
[21:12:16] <zeeshan> i TOTALLY forgot.
[21:13:19] <zeeshan> PetefromTn_: after tuning this servo stuff
[21:13:32] <zeeshan> i don't see why you can't hook up an encoder to your drive
[21:13:33] <zeeshan> and tune it
[21:13:42] <zeeshan> the vfd that is
[21:13:50] <zeeshan> i know with induction motors there is slip
[21:13:59] <zeeshan> do you need to be dead on to get orient to work
[21:14:06] <zeeshan> or +/- 30 thou is ok
[21:14:39] <PetefromTn_> not sure really...as tight as possible of course
[21:15:00] <zeeshan> how many tools can your tool changer hold
[21:15:40] <PetefromTn_> 20
[21:15:47] <zeeshan> nice!
[21:15:55] <PetefromTn_> or 21 can't remember
[21:16:00] <zeeshan> that would be SWEEt if you got that running
[21:16:02] <PetefromTn_> yeah it sure as hell will be
[21:16:18] <zeeshan> hey, how do you set your tool heights right now
[21:16:21] <zeeshan> do you have a toolsetter?
[21:17:43] <PetefromTn_> no right now I set G59.3 to be the right rear corner of the mill tables travel... then I goto that with MDI G59.3 G0 X0 Y0 and then load the tool... Then I jog down with the MPG and touch off atop a 123 block on the table top.. then touch off that tool to the tool table.
[21:18:34] <PetefromTn_> I am doing it that way because when I get the table mounted tool probe built I will be basically doing the same thing only electronically.
[21:19:18] <PetefromTn_> http://art.sfglobe.com/2015/01/14/ix3/?src=share_fb_new_32233 For you 3d printer guys..
[21:19:24] * zeeshan had to look up g59.3
[21:20:02] <zeeshan> do you use the paper trick?
[21:20:11] <zeeshan> do you actually touch the 123 block
[21:20:16] <PetefromTn_> no just touch off on the 123
[21:20:31] <PetefromTn_> jog down until the 123 will not go underneath it..
[21:20:39] <zeeshan> ah okay
[21:20:46] <PetefromTn_> then set steps to .0001 and jog up until it does just slide under
[21:20:53] <zeeshan> that works
[21:21:01] <PetefromTn_> that way you don't crash
[21:21:05] <PetefromTn_> and break tools etc.
[21:21:13] <zeeshan> your goal is to have the tool setter linked with linuxcnc
[21:21:18] <zeeshan> so it automatically sets the tool height?
[21:21:42] <PetefromTn_> I touch off on top of the workpiece with the first tool using a ground round rod that is .625" diameter the same basic way...
[21:21:49] <PetefromTn_> yeah that is the ultimate goal..
[21:22:05] <zeeshan> i like
[21:22:09] <PetefromTn_> basically what I want is for my machine to perform as much like that HAAS with probing I just posted.
[21:22:14] <PetefromTn_> as I possibly can..
[21:22:27] <zeeshan> dude
[21:22:31] <zeeshan> it's so nice to not have to think.
[21:22:38] <zeeshan> when you get that stuff setup
[21:22:42] <zeeshan> its pretty much click and go.
[21:22:58] <zeeshan> sometimes its a bit frustrating having to jog the tool and setup
[21:23:03] <PetefromTn_> yeah it sure is nice.. two of the shops I worked in had both spindle probing and tool probing..
[21:23:06] <zeeshan> ever since i setup home switches on the lathe
[21:23:09] <zeeshan> its made life so much easier
[21:23:17] <zeeshan> best suggest ssi could have made!
[21:23:24] <PetefromTn_> Oh hell yeah you gotta have homing..
[21:23:39] <zeeshan> i can see homing being a big deal in the mill too
[21:23:40] <zeeshan> for Z height
[21:23:41] <PetefromTn_> good home switches make everything work nicely..
[21:24:20] <zeeshan> actually even for x and y.
[21:24:30] <PetefromTn_> of course
[21:24:45] <PetefromTn_> that is how you get repeatable fixture offsets basically
[21:24:55] <zeeshan> yes
[21:24:58] <zeeshan> i was thinking of 1 part
[21:25:17] <zeeshan> but its definitely needed for fixturing
[21:25:26] <zeeshan> i need to get this damn mill running
[21:25:35] <zeeshan> i have a request for something to be made
[21:25:36] <zeeshan> for $
[21:26:02] <PetefromTn_> honestly when you see how the HAAS probing pages work it would be really complicted to get that sort of automation in linuxCNC. I am sure it could be done but it is fairly complex...
[21:26:07] <PetefromTn_> nice.
[21:26:15] <PetefromTn_> there are lots of cool things you can make...
[21:26:32] <zeeshan> first project might be making an adapter plate for a LSA supercharger to fit a LQ9
[21:26:41] <PetefromTn_> I got a request from a guy in Italy today for one of my products and another request from a former customer in France....LOL
[21:26:58] <zeeshan> hehe
[21:27:04] <zeeshan> you make great stuff
[21:27:11] <PetefromTn_> I try to..
[21:27:17] <zeeshan> always shiny :)
[21:27:25] <PetefromTn_> wish It was shinier...
[21:27:47] <PetefromTn_> I need to get my hands on that facemill they are using and the type of inserts... that bitch is amazing..
[21:27:57] <zeeshan> im taking a "Advanced Machinining Processes" class right now
[21:28:00] <zeeshan> learning stuff i didnt know
[21:28:20] <PetefromTn_> good you can feel free to divulge your daily learnings here..
[21:28:29] <zeeshan> i learned something new first day of class
[21:28:33] <zeeshan> about surface finish
[21:28:45] <zeeshan> its hard to explain over irc without a diagram
[21:28:53] <zeeshan> without even considering depth of cut
[21:29:03] <zeeshan> i did not know this.
[21:29:17] <zeeshan> the edge cutting radius limits whether you're cutting or ploughing
[21:29:26] <zeeshan> not the nose radius, edge cutting radius
[21:29:51] <PetefromTn_> for full doc engagement or what?
[21:29:59] <zeeshan> not the nose radius
[21:30:02] <zeeshan> edge radius
[21:30:05] <zeeshan> lemme see if i can find a pic
[21:30:41] <PetefromTn_> K
[21:30:45] <zeeshan> http://www.shop-apt.co.uk/user/products/large/CNMA-120408-CBN-300-TURNING-INSERT.jpg
[21:30:53] <zeeshan> okay you see the nose?
[21:31:12] <PetefromTn_> left side..
[21:31:14] <zeeshan> yea
[21:31:17] <zeeshan> its almost like a chamfer
[21:31:23] <PetefromTn_> sure
[21:31:37] <zeeshan> for cutting youre limited to 15 - 35 um minimum
[21:32:01] <zeeshan> that means you need to cut more than 35 um to cut
[21:32:03] <zeeshan> otherwise you plough
[21:32:08] <zeeshan> which means you plastically deform the material
[21:32:23] <zeeshan> 0.0013"
[21:32:58] <zeeshan> this number ends up in turning
[21:33:03] <zeeshan> being your minimum feed / rev
[21:33:10] <Jymmm> I found a 4" cast iron skillet, but not sure what to do with it.
[21:33:16] <zeeshan> Jymmm: give it to me
[21:33:18] <zeeshan> so i can make a steak on it
[21:33:20] <zeeshan> reverse sear
[21:33:25] <PetefromTn_> oh you are talking lathe ops here?
[21:33:27] <Jymmm> 4" ?
[21:33:35] <zeeshan> PetefromTn_: no it applies to all cutting processes
[21:33:41] <zeeshan> lathe is just a bit easier to visualize
[21:33:44] <zeeshan> since you have 1 tooth
[21:33:48] <Jymmm> zeeshan: 4" ?
[21:33:55] <zeeshan> Jymmm: i like tiny steaks!
[21:34:25] <PetefromTn_> well I have to go take care of something might be back later...
[21:34:31] <Jymmm> zeeshan: Not useful for that, maybe AN egg, or cornbread is all I can really think of
[21:34:32] <zeeshan> im gonna wire up Z
[21:34:44] <zeeshan> Jymmm: maybe even cooking a burger patty
[21:35:02] <Jymmm> zwI onl have one of them though
[21:35:25] <Jymmm> zeeshan: I only have one 4" pan. I'd use my 8 or 12" for that
[21:35:45] <zeeshan> Jymmm: i like that its 4"
[21:35:47] <zeeshan> faster to heat up
[21:36:05] <Jymmm> Not that much faster than 8" pan
[21:36:13] <zeeshan> =]
[21:36:29] <Jymmm> If I had like 4 of them, sure I could bake breads in them
[21:36:41] <Jymmm> small desserts
[21:36:52] <Jymmm> individualized even, but not just ONE
[21:37:51] <Jymmm> maybe I could cook two eggs in it. I'll have to season it first and the way I season pans take s a while
[21:38:05] <bobo_> humming bid steaks
[21:38:22] <bobo_> bird
[21:38:55] <Jymmm> ???
[21:39:20] <bobo_> humming bird steak
[21:39:29] <Jymmm> ???
[21:40:03] <Jymmm> is that a real thing?
[21:40:31] <bobo_> no
[21:45:47] <bobo_> sorry Jymmm was bad 4"" fry pan use joke
[21:50:21] <Jymmm> bobo_: Just thought is was some kind of dishes/recipe I wasn't aware of.
[21:52:18] <Jymmm> Like Yorkshire Pudding,
[21:53:49] <bobo_> are you in the UK ?
[21:55:04] <Jymmm> Nope
[21:55:13] <Jymmm> wrong side of the pond
[21:55:36] <bobo_> so am i
[22:06:08] <furrywolf> well, just did my good deed for the day.
[22:08:06] <furrywolf> was at radio shack getting a headphones plug, when some tweaker comes in, and starts browsing. I figure after about half a second that he's there to steal something, and keep an eye on him. a few minutes later, while the manager's back is turned, sure enough he grabs something off a shelf and bolts for the door.
[22:08:34] <furrywolf> having been watching him, I'm only about ten feet behind him... we get about a hundred feet and I've almost got him, and he throws it at me and keeps running.
[22:09:38] <furrywolf> I decided it wasn't worth chasing him further (we were leaving the parking lot, and he might have buddies), and decide the running-for-my-life look on his face was enough of a lesson.
[22:12:03] <furrywolf> several other people in the parking lot, NONE of them help chase. have I mentioned most people are worthless wastes of oxygen.
[22:12:14] <furrywolf> s/\.$/?
[22:15:40] <furrywolf> if I'd had any backup I would have kept after him, but not chasing him off into a dark street, and those little skinny tweakers are fast.
[22:16:48] <Rickta59> heh .. the only problem the only person who got robbed was you for shopping at RS
[22:17:34] <furrywolf> heh
[22:18:05] <furrywolf> I couldn't find my headphones splitter, and I need it tomorrow by 8am, so... not many other options. $7 for not even a gold plug is rather annoying.
[22:18:41] <Rickta59> the dollar store around here sells stuff like that
[22:19:20] <furrywolf> the dollar store here does not.
[22:20:43] <furrywolf> the dollar store around here sells defective chinese plastic goods
[22:26:21] <furrywolf> I've purchased two electrical items from the local dollar store that were blatantly misadvertised, one was recalled by the cpsc...
[22:30:48] <zeeshan> furrywolf: color? :)
[22:30:58] <furrywolf> ?
[22:31:01] <zeeshan> of thief
[22:31:10] <furrywolf> white.
[22:31:18] <zeeshan> hoodlum?
[22:31:19] <furrywolf> most tweakers here are white or hoopa.
[22:31:29] <furrywolf> no, tweaker. tweakers are a category of their own.
[22:31:36] <zeeshan> lol
[22:31:40] <zeeshan> never heard of that term before
[22:31:53] <furrywolf> tweaker?
[22:31:57] <zeeshan> yea
[22:32:17] <furrywolf> meth must not be common where you are.
[22:33:52] <zeeshan> arent you supposed t obe flying
[22:34:06] <furrywolf> tomorrow
[22:35:21] <zeeshan> i boiled carrots for the first time in my life
[22:35:25] <zeeshan> holy cow theyre delicious
[22:36:09] <furrywolf> http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=tweeker
[22:36:24] <zeeshan> drugs are stupid
[22:36:50] <LeelooMinai> I read about a guy who drunk a gallon of carrot juice a day and died:)
[22:37:06] <zeeshan> LeelooMinai: figure out your VFD!
[22:37:28] <LeelooMinai> I think he exceeded A does 30000 times or so and his liver exploded:)
[22:37:38] <LeelooMinai> vitamin A dose*
[22:38:10] <furrywolf> summary: tweakers are methamphetamine addicts, usually skiny and covered in sores, who steal everything they can to sell to buy more meth.
[22:38:19] <LeelooMinai> zeeshan: I was making holes for the table - that is done now. VFD I must buy first - next month maybe.
[22:38:31] <zeeshan> LeelooMinai: did yoiu figure out the spindle?
[22:39:01] <LeelooMinai> zeeshan: Figure out how?
[22:39:07] <zeeshan> which one to buy
[22:39:08] <LeelooMinai> I ordered 800wat one
[22:39:12] <zeeshan> ah
[22:39:22] <LeelooMinai> ER11 only, but have to start with something
[22:39:35] <LeelooMinai> Up to 7mm shank
[22:39:42] <zeeshan> thats prety good
[22:39:53] <PetefromTn_andro> Gonna run it with the squirrel cage and a hamster?
[22:39:58] <LeelooMinai> I am not going to make motocycle parts:)
[22:40:38] <LeelooMinai> PetefromTn_andro: What do you mean:) I will get one of those GS2 VFDs - 1HP 110V
[22:41:13] <LeelooMinai> Could get cheaper Chinese ones, but I think those GS2 have much better documentation and communication options
[22:41:14] <PetefromTn_andro> Oh I thought you might have broken down and got 220v run or something hehe
[22:41:31] <zeeshan> <- done wiring up brake
[22:41:37] <zeeshan> moment of truth soon after i eat.
[22:42:10] <PetefromTn_andro> Gonna let the flying monkeys loose finally!!
[22:42:13] <zeeshan> haha
[22:42:16] <LeelooMinai> No, too expensive to run it to my room. This small 800watt spindle will give me plenty to test - small alu parts, maybe some pcb trials, working maybe with acrylic or whatever is machinable this way, etc.
[22:42:22] <zeeshan> PetefromTn_andro: im a bit worried
[22:42:29] <zeeshan> my z is sitting on the floor
[22:42:37] <zeeshan> i think im gonna have to raise the table some how.
[22:42:38] <zeeshan> support it.
[22:42:40] <zeeshan> hook up motor
[22:42:49] <zeeshan> im gonna pump K value
[22:42:57] <zeeshan> before hand cause i know 1 is too low
[22:43:10] <zeeshan> i predict itll need close to 700
[22:43:12] <LeelooMinai> I ordered some basic end mills from China too - some carbide ones, some hardened steel. 203 flute ones
[22:43:16] <LeelooMinai> 2-3*
[22:43:29] <zeeshan> thats a lot of flutes!
[22:43:33] <PetefromTn_andro> Sweet to both of you
[22:44:00] <PetefromTn_andro> Lying in bed now enjoying some tunes..
[22:44:14] <LeelooMinai> Justin Beiber? :)
[22:44:22] <PetefromTn_andro> Shiiiitt
[22:44:46] <PetefromTn_andro> You really didn't seriously ask me that..
[22:45:15] <LeelooMinai> Nowadays all is possible - people listen to strange stuff:)
[22:45:40] <zeeshan> i think im gonan record my experience with Z
[22:45:41] <furrywolf> speaking of tweakers, the couple up the road are having yet another drug-induced domestic dispute, which will, like always, result in BOTH of them leaving the house, then making up the next day.
[22:45:42] <roycroft> yeah, but he said he was listening to music
[22:45:46] <zeeshan> so when it crashes you guys get a good video
[22:45:53] <PetefromTn_andro> Oh I do too just not that pansy assed little punk
[22:46:03] <zeeshan> PetefromTn_andro listens to ACDC
[22:46:11] <zeeshan> not that girly boy!
[22:46:22] <LeelooMinai> zeeshan: Maybe he needs better main filters then
[22:46:27] <LeelooMinai> mains*
[22:46:29] <zeeshan> definitely
[22:47:08] <PetefromTn_andro> My wife did actually just get AC/DC's new album hehe
[22:47:17] <LeelooMinai> They are still alive?
[22:47:22] <PetefromTn_andro> Apparently
[22:47:24] <zeeshan> lol LeelooMinai
[22:47:26] <zeeshan> haha
[22:47:47] <PetefromTn_andro> She said it was pretty good actually
[22:48:01] * furrywolf likes neither boy bands nor acdc
[22:48:09] <PetefromTn_andro> I have not listened to it yet
[22:48:25] <zeeshan> furrywolf: you like tweakers!
[22:48:33] <zeeshan> brb from mill
[22:49:43] <PetefromTn_andro> My new in ear monitors sound great but the freaking little ear bud soft plastic pieces don't really fit me too well damnit
[22:50:12] <furrywolf> haven't gotten much lately... Life of Agony - Broken Valley was good, Shinedown - Sound of Madness was good, Flotsam and Jetsam - Ugly Noise was good, umm...
[22:50:33] <PetefromTn_andro> I actually like shine down a bit
[22:50:54] <furrywolf> I tried A Pale Horse Named Death, but... how the hell can you make two albums talking entirely about how much you like death? stupid goths. :P
[22:51:02] * furrywolf wouldn't recommend them
[22:51:40] <PetefromTn_andro> No you would much rather watch Star Trek Voyager...:D
[22:52:01] <furrywolf> no :P
[22:52:17] <zeeshan_> works correctly.
[22:52:20] <zeeshan_> YAY
[22:52:21] <PetefromTn_andro> Ya sure?
[22:52:32] <PetefromTn_andro> What does
[22:52:40] <LeelooMinai> They should make new Star Trek series already - it has been too long.
[22:52:46] <furrywolf> I'd paste a youtube link to some of those, but my internet connection is sucking too badly to load youtube.com, much less an actual video.
[22:52:54] <PetefromTn_andro> Oh hell yeah...
[22:53:36] <zeeshan_> the Z brake
[22:53:38] <PetefromTn_andro> It would be amazing to have the new cast on a show but it probably will not happen
[22:54:08] <LeelooMinai> I guess they would need to make it "cool" a bit for modern times... But they managed that with the movie, so why not:)
[22:54:17] <PetefromTn_andro> How does that brake work now
[22:54:27] <zeeshan_> i have 2 relays
[22:54:40] <zeeshan_> when both relays are off
[22:54:45] <zeeshan_> it locks up the brake
[22:54:49] <PetefromTn_andro> Personally I think the new movies were Fucking awesome...can't wait for more
[22:55:05] <zeeshan_> when either one of the relays is off, the brake stays in whatever state it was in before. but no current is being consumed
[22:55:10] <zeeshan_> when both relays are on, brake disengages
[22:55:17] <zeeshan_> so basically on a power outage
[22:55:20] <zeeshan_> brake will engage
[22:55:28] <zeeshan_> with the remaining drain of the 24vdc supply
[22:55:45] <furrywolf> heh, I watched the three Star Trek Continues epiosdes a couple months ago... not half bad, especially for a fan production.
[22:55:51] <PetefromTn_andro> How long will it hold it in
[22:55:57] <LeelooMinai> That's theory, in reality it will explode and put the house on fire:)
[22:56:16] <zeeshan_> PetefromTn_andro, forever
[22:56:28] <zeeshan_> i know this because i shipped the machine like this
[22:56:34] <zeeshan_> with the brake in locked state with no power going to it
[22:56:38] <PetefromTn_andro> Naah this is zeeshan not ssi hehe
[22:56:44] <zeeshan_> LOL
[22:56:55] <zeeshan_> LeelooMinai, 100A breaker to machine
[22:56:57] <zeeshan_> remember?!?
[22:56:59] <PetefromTn_andro> I keed
[22:57:25] <PetefromTn_andro> I'm a keeder
[22:57:53] <zeeshan_> PetefromTn_andro, do you remember what your f_error min
[22:57:59] <zeeshan_> and f_error values are set to
[22:58:15] <zeeshan_> im thinking 0.002 for max
[22:58:21] <PetefromTn_andro> Been trying to talk my friend Brendan from New Zealand into popping in here
[22:58:25] <zeeshan_> and f_error min as 0.0005
[22:58:47] <PetefromTn_andro> Shit no not offhand
[22:58:48] * furrywolf wonders whether PetefromTn_andro spends time as PetefromTn_gyno
[22:58:56] <zeeshan_> lol
[22:59:30] <PetefromTn_andro> Furrywolf needs to worry more about his tweaking neighbors
[23:00:30] <PetefromTn_andro> Anyway my friend Brendan has the exact same Cincinnati Arrow500 I have here and is building much the same machine
[23:00:38] <LeelooMinai> furrywolf has always problems with neighbours... I remember like 3 years ago there was some woman that I think was steling the power from the house or something like that:)
[23:00:59] <LeelooMinai> Now tweakers - sounds wonderful:)
[23:01:38] <PetefromTn_andro> Yeah that must be the upscale part of the community heh
[23:01:43] <furrywolf> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2K77euG0Vx8 life of agony... I can't load enough of it here to actually play it, but you can try. heh.
[23:02:21] <furrywolf> leeloo: she finally got evicted... took ~20 visits from the cops, and a judge threatening to throw her in jail if she opened her mouth again.
[23:03:04] <LeelooMinai> So the "tweakers" are the replacement? :p
[23:03:24] <furrywolf> she did the "let's drag it through the courts and countersue and turn in every bit of paper on the very last day etc" thing, and finally made such an ass of herself at one of the hearings that the judge was ready to have her removed from the court...
[23:04:50] <furrywolf> as related to me, the judge instructed her to shut up and listen to what he was saying, and if she opened her mouth, she was being removed by the bailiff. heh.
[23:05:12] <PetefromTn_andro> Hey man that's not terrible really..
[23:05:16] <furrywolf> the landlord won soundly, and finally the last sheriff's visit resulted in her stuff being dumped in the road.
[23:05:27] <PetefromTn_andro> Kinda like it.
[23:06:27] <PetefromTn_andro> Damn man I hate it when my YouTube app forgets my last stuff
[23:06:52] <furrywolf> her stuff being dumped in the road... for the tenth or so time. because she kept trying to move back in every time they came around and removed her. she'd wait for the middle of the night, cut the locks off the doors, break a window, whatever, and start loading her stuff back in.
[23:07:37] <furrywolf> when she finally moved out the last time, she gutted the house... she even took one of the fucking DOORS.
[23:07:57] <LeelooMinai> ...
[23:08:44] <roycroft> during the foreclosure boom folks were doing crap like that
[23:08:50] <roycroft> they would get forclosed on and evicted
[23:08:51] <furrywolf> the landlord decided it wasn't worth trying to track her down and sue her, and was happy just to be rid of her, three years after he initially served her a 90-day notice.
[23:09:08] <roycroft> they would remove the doors and windows and electric outlets and even the plumbing
[23:09:13] <furrywolf> yes, three years to remove someone... because california makes it way too fucking easy to cause problems.
[23:09:16] <roycroft> the banks would never even come by to check out the houses
[23:09:29] <roycroft> so they would get ruined because of not having any doors or windows
[23:09:43] <unfy> palmegranite skittles: not a fan ... great with coffee, but straight up they're a bit harsh
[23:10:11] <PetefromTn_andro> Hehe I love pomegranate
[23:10:30] <roycroft> i wonder how they would be in beer
[23:10:42] <roycroft> an american wheat beer with pomegranate skittles
[23:10:49] <roycroft> could be an interesting recipe
[23:11:07] <furrywolf> how it should work: the landlord serves you a notice. the day the notice expires, your stuff gets tossed on the lawn. if you try anything, the sheriff tosses you in jail. how it actually works: 89 days later you file an objection with the court. 29 days later you schedule the hearing. 29 days later you move your stuff back in. 89 days later you file an objection to the get-the-fuck-out-AGAIN notice. etc, etc...
[23:11:20] <PetefromTn_andro> Jeez man is that all you ever think about
[23:11:27] <roycroft> i disagree, furrywolf
[23:11:33] <roycroft> landlords can be real jerks
[23:11:42] <roycroft> i don't think there should be indefinite delays
[23:11:50] <roycroft> but renters need to have some recourse
[23:12:09] <furrywolf> pete: try https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zOmw8OJtD1s (flotsam and jetsam)
[23:12:15] <roycroft> and it should be within a fairly short time window
[23:12:29] <roycroft> if a landlord serves a notice, you should have more like 10 or 20 days to appeal
[23:12:31] <roycroft> not 90 days
[23:13:30] <furrywolf> why should a renter be able to object to a 90 day notice in a month-to-month lease? the landlord has decided he doesn't want you there, and gave you ample time you pack your shit up and leave.
[23:13:41] <furrywolf> s/you pack/to pack
[23:15:09] <PetefromTn_andro> That's kinda not bad either almost sounds like it could be an 90's grunge rock kinda sorta thing hehe
[23:15:40] <PetefromTn_andro> Give me some shinedown
[23:15:44] <furrywolf> I like a pretty wide variety of music...
[23:15:55] <PetefromTn_andro> Yeah
[23:16:09] <furrywolf> you can search youtube too, you know. :P
[23:16:14] <furrywolf> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S_HgGADp9u0 random shinedown song
[23:16:16] <PetefromTn_andro> Busy
[23:19:04] <PetefromTn_andro> Yeah I like those guys.
[23:19:40] <furrywolf> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hhC34ev08Ho and now for something completely different...
[23:19:43] * furrywolf plays DJ
[23:21:31] <PetefromTn_andro> Man I need to get this lathe operating
[23:22:12] <furrywolf> rather than listen to music all night? :P
[23:22:46] <PetefromTn_andro> What is wrong with having both
[23:22:50] <furrywolf> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jjuIYH2wrpc how about sludge rock?
[23:24:14] <PetefromTn_andro> That reminds me of something from the movie the crow...
[23:24:25] <roycroft> i rarely want to go back to the shop after dinner
[23:24:44] <roycroft> tonight is no exception
[23:25:57] <unfy> PG skittles in beer or something: i dunno
[23:26:10] <furrywolf> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QCDx3mgSbkg or some... I'm not even sure how to classify that. garage?
[23:26:31] <roycroft> folks have used candy in beer
[23:26:39] <roycroft> it's not as uncommon as one might think
[23:26:40] <unfy> i made some chaos earlier ( http://i.imgur.com/4AwZY3o.jpg ) , but also bought an extra bag of skittles 'dark side' .. which has diff flavors
[23:26:57] <roycroft> the sugar would ferment, so you'd be left with the flavor
[23:27:33] <unfy> separataed out the PG cause it's got a tart start ... and added the rest to the chaos. given the tart initial flavor of the PG, i imagine it'll do nicely with coffee
[23:29:01] <unfy> i'll admit, not a fan of the dark side skittles.
[23:29:10] <PetefromTn_andro> http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=3CY0ZjtuHvs. Kick ass soundtrack
[23:29:24] <unfy> pete: you're genderless?!?!?!
[23:29:43] * furrywolf already made that joke
[23:29:50] <unfy> oh :P
[23:30:05] <PetefromTn_andro> Yup
[23:30:13] * furrywolf scrolls up... * furrywolf wonders whether PetefromTn_andro spends time as PetefromTn_gyno
[23:30:17] <PetefromTn_andro> Yup genderless
[23:30:36] <PetefromTn_andro> And hetero
[23:31:21] <furrywolf> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YiY3sh24P04 more random rock
[23:31:27] <furrywolf> I really should be packing instead of playing DJ...
[23:33:45] <furrywolf> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yNpWt4FC1VI there's something nice and long, so I have ten minutes to pack before I have to find something else. :P
[23:34:03] <PetefromTn_andro> Did you check my link
[23:34:20] <furrywolf> I can't really play videos with this connection. lol
[23:34:28] <furrywolf> the first ten seconds or so sounded not bad...
[23:34:42] <PetefromTn_andro> Damn I am on my smartphone
[23:34:43] <furrywolf> I made a note to look for an album of theirs to download later.
[23:35:11] <PetefromTn_andro> That's actually an old song
[23:35:28] <PetefromTn_andro> From the movie the crow
[23:35:41] <PetefromTn_andro> I have the soundtrack
[23:35:57] <PetefromTn_andro> Some really good music
[23:36:22] <furrywolf> dream theater, imho, is one of the more technically accomplished bands around. (the band I just pasted a link to)
[23:36:54] <unfy> hmmm
[23:37:05] <unfy> SFAM was the last dt album i bought
[23:37:07] <LeelooMinai> They are great musicians, but I cannot listen to them too long - they are just too nice:)
[23:37:21] <unfy> haven't cared for anything since. older dt ? yes i like. newer dt... no thanks.
[23:37:26] <furrywolf> lol
[23:38:02] <furrywolf> unfy: have you listened to the album the song I just pasted is from?
[23:38:15] <furrywolf> I consider it on par with Images and Words...
[23:38:32] <unfy> vanden plas is a decent band that's a good bit like DT as well. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aI1GCIUahc0 is a godly track as far as composition
[23:39:31] * furrywolf also likes a lot of older music, but is avoiding pasting it here, figuring people have either already heard it, or like leeloo are younguns and wouldn't like it. :P
[23:39:36] <unfy> after silently finishes, i'll give it a listen, wolf
[23:39:52] <LeelooMinai> furrywolf: lol, I am probably older than you:)
[23:40:20] <furrywolf> no, you're way to afraid of kinky sex to be an adult. :P
[23:40:45] * jdh nods
[23:40:53] <LeelooMinai> I was born in 1970 though:p
[23:41:47] <furrywolf> unfy: from what I've gotten to load, not bad
[23:42:04] <LeelooMinai> Same as DM - too nice:)
[23:42:10] <LeelooMinai> DT*
[23:42:26] <unfy> sweet, magigni or whatever his name is
[23:42:34] <unfy> god tier drummer <3
[23:43:23] <furrywolf> that DT album (whose name I just can't remember right now, and my connection sucks too badly to look up) is much like their older works, imho.
[23:44:11] <PetefromTn_andro> Trying to get Brendan in here right now if I can talk him thru irc login
[23:44:12] <unfy> la brie opens his mouth and the song nose dives ._.
[23:45:18] <furrywolf> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nQ0JnDVOiMY yay the '80s... still one of my favorite albums.
[23:45:22] <unfy> has a slight awake sound to the vocals
[23:46:56] <PetefromTn_andro> Brb
[23:47:00] <LeelooMinai> I prefer vocalists that mix it up - like the one from Opeth or BTBAM
[23:47:55] <furrywolf> I like a lot of music... not all of it being rock and metal. :)
[23:48:23] <unfy> furry: lost not forgotten aint too bad. i can stomach la brie in it. but generally anything after awake i /hate/ him with a passion
[23:48:48] <furrywolf> not sure I remember awake...
[23:49:09] <furrywolf> unfy: try build me up, break me down, off the same album. (I think that's the name)
[23:49:46] <LeelooMinai> When I listen to him it's like he can only express one emotion - it's nice and all in this mode, but wears me down quickly and becomes annoying:)
[23:51:29] <furrywolf> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I39oV-xaVxY going further back, how about the '70s? another brilliant (in my opinion!) band.
[23:51:36] <furrywolf> that most people have never heard of
[23:52:08] <LeelooMinai> Damn, you may be indeed older than me:p
[23:52:43] <furrywolf> leeloo: that song is probably not to your tastes, but I still think they're a good band. heh.
[23:53:05] * furrywolf likes a lot of different music
[23:53:08] <unfy> giving dt's 2013 album a listen
[23:53:22] <unfy> i may have to go buy this :P
[23:53:24] <furrywolf> their newer one wasn't as good as the 2012 one.
[23:53:39] <furrywolf> pete: > https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I39oV-xaVxY going further back, how about the '70s? another brilliant (in my opinion!) band.
[23:53:53] <PetefromTn_andro> Okay guys waiting for nick georgenz in here...
[23:54:43] <PetefromTn_andro> Damn he gave up..
[23:55:56] <bobo_> may by jymmm turned nick in to someone else ?
[23:56:53] <PetefromTn_andro> He's still trying
[23:56:54] <furrywolf> no comments on the renaissance track, eh? I must still be the only one who likes them.
[23:57:13] <PetefromTn_andro> Trying to get Brendan in here right now
[23:57:20] <roycroft> i'm watching tv at the moment - can't really watch youtube videos as well
[23:57:26] <roycroft> but i have always like renaissance
[23:58:14] <furrywolf> the band, not the era. :)
[23:58:49] <roycroft> yes
[23:58:59] <roycroft> the era was ok in many respects, too
[23:59:01] <furrywolf> leeloo: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QJFMPi_9gN0 just for you! :P
[23:59:05] <roycroft> but the band are what you were talking about
[23:59:59] <furrywolf> I should get Jett's latest album.