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[00:00:36] <furrywolf> nife has some good features... very low self discharge and near-infinite life. the bad is cost, efficiency, and maintenance...
[00:00:55] <furrywolf> I have some cells from the '40s that still test at new capacity 70 years later.
[00:01:05] <SpeedEvil> Lots of the flow batteries look really, really interesting too.
[00:01:14] <SpeedEvil> 'Need more capacity - add another tank'
[00:03:50] <furrywolf> hrmm, vents CO on overcharge... that's nice and safe.
[00:06:08] <norias> shhh
[00:06:27] <SpeedEvil> Sell it with a free bonus CO detector
[00:06:51] <norias> you're freaking made of carbon and oxygen
[00:06:56] <norias> what's the big deal
[00:07:25] <unfy> dat troll :P
[00:08:32] <furrywolf> one of my relatives died from CO. heh.
[00:10:44] <norias> "Shockwave crash has flashed."
[00:11:06] <unfy> Colorado must be stopped. (TM)
[00:11:15] <unfy> or, Columbia ? take your pick
[00:11:25] <norias> Colorado
[00:11:57] <unfy> actually, columbia is .do i think ?
[00:13:54] <furrywolf> bbl, wolfy bedtime
[00:14:39] <SpeedEvil> night everyone
[00:14:42] <SpeedEvil> I should try and all.
[00:14:45] <SpeedEvil> It being 6AM
[00:14:51] <SpeedEvil> norias: fun talking.
[00:14:58] <norias> you too
[00:40:45] <zeeshan-mill> it didnt blow up!
[00:40:52] <zeeshan-mill> YAY
[00:41:07] <norias> good
[00:41:38] <zeeshan-mill> my spindle contactor was sticky
[00:41:42] <zeeshan-mill> had to clean it
[00:41:46] <zeeshan-mill> other than that it started up
[00:41:51] <zeeshan-mill> i dont know what these colors mean on the mesa
[00:41:51] <norias> good deal
[00:41:56] <norias> no idea
[00:44:39] <zeeshan-mill> https://www.flickr.com/photos/128539016@N05/16251023906/
[00:45:11] <zeeshan-mill> https://www.flickr.com/photos/128539016@N05/15657077743/
[00:45:14] <zeeshan-mill> those ones
[00:45:48] <norias> hmm
[00:45:49] <norias> green
[00:45:52] <norias> looks familiar
[00:45:55] <norias> who makes that
[00:46:32] <zeeshan-mill> mesa
[00:46:46] <norias> naw, the machine
[00:48:21] <zeeshan-mill> mikron
[00:49:03] <norias> ahh
[00:51:26] <zeeshan-mill> man im happy
[00:51:36] <zeeshan-mill> its taken over like 3 months of straight work
[00:51:38] <norias> i bet
[00:51:38] <zeeshan-mill> to get this goin
[00:51:47] <zeeshan-mill> controller from scratch is hard as hell
[00:51:56] <zeeshan-mill> i wish i could go back and just reusew hat came with the machine
[00:52:05] <unfy> i've been watchin your progress :D
[00:52:37] <norias> hard is usually worthwhile
[00:55:35] <zeeshan-mill> i need to really get a table top toolbox for the keyboard and mouse and scrreen
[00:55:39] <zeeshan-mill> im using the t-slot table haha
[00:55:40] <zeeshan-mill> its cold
[00:56:32] <zeeshan-mill> PCW, i hope youre ready for the crap load of q's coming to you tomorrow!
[01:03:29] <zeeshan-mill> when i do loadrt hostmot2; loadrt hm2_pci; show pin
[01:03:35] <zeeshan-mill> and i get a crapload of pins
[01:03:46] <zeeshan-mill> does this mean im communicating with 5i25+7i77
[01:03:54] <zeeshan-mill> because i only see lights on the 7i77 lit up. not 5i25
[01:03:57] <zeeshan-mill> but i see pins show up
[02:34:19] <Deejay> moin
[04:39:46] <Tom_itx> good one zeeshan
[04:40:06] <Tom_itx> if you see pins in dmesg, you're talking to the 5i25
[06:32:57] <Bushman> http://imgur.com/gallery/MaYFD
[07:26:46] <jdh> what's a gobo
[07:29:04] <malcom2073> Amusing that A: He felt the need to specify it's not supposed to be a copy (love the internet), and B: 4 points on a dickbutt request.
[07:34:06] <jdh> what's a dickbutt and why do you like them?
[07:35:13] <malcom2073> It's an imgur meme thing, and I don't, but apparently at least 4 other people do
[07:35:45] <malcom2073> If you gave an 8 year old a marker, and told them to draw one, you'd get exactly what it is
[07:35:58] <malcom2073> Don't google it
[07:35:59] <malcom2073> trust me.
[07:43:35] <CaptHindsight> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OiETlYskTrY How to make an Acrylic box in 5 minutes
[07:44:05] <CaptHindsight> works with other easily welded plastics as well
[07:46:31] <malcom2073> I don't have sound, but the logo popping up every 10 seconds is rather annoying
[07:46:38] <jdh> yep
[07:47:01] <malcom2073> I keep hearing their name in a wrestler announcer voice everytime it does it
[07:48:14] <malcom2073> Nifty idea though
[07:48:35] <CaptHindsight> it popped up so often I don't know their name, have it on auto delete in my brain
[07:49:50] <malcom2073> Something VT
[07:51:06] <CaptHindsight> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=czFWhNsCa2I these guys have been around for years
[07:51:23] <malcom2073> Boom, random seaplane.
[07:51:47] <malcom2073> Nice
[07:51:49] <CaptHindsight> the action starts ~1;00
[07:53:20] <malcom2073> A hot brake for bending plastic, nice!
[07:53:29] <CaptHindsight> handy
[07:53:51] <malcom2073> And they use the melting-plastic nutsert, been meaning to pick some of those up to try with my glue gun printer
[07:54:11] <CaptHindsight> 2:41 check out her fast hands and accuracy
[07:54:22] <malcom2073> She's quick
[07:55:31] <archivist> the method has been around a while, these are cnc grooved and bent
http://camdenboss.com/enclosures/custom-size-enclosures
[07:56:00] <CaptHindsight> archivist: yes, but I rarely seem them put into practice
[07:56:12] <archivist> they cnc the snap together groove too
[07:56:54] <archivist> I have a sample box somewhere
[07:57:29] <CaptHindsight> http://www.bunniestudios.com/blog/?tag=novena even here, they wasted money on tooling
[07:59:33] <cpresser> CaptHindsight: most likely i will throw the case out and build my own
[08:34:02] <CaptHindsight> http://www.3ders.org/articles/20150113-noztek-uk-launches-new-pcb-controlled-3d-printing-filament-extruder-noztek-touch.html finally looking like an actual extruder
[08:35:17] <CaptHindsight> http://www.milabtech.com/extruders%20lab.htm
[08:37:29] <malcom2073> And yet it still doesn't do filament width detection/compensation
[08:44:19] <CaptHindsight> you wouldn't bother on a production extruder
[08:44:56] <CaptHindsight> you just get the settings right and run it all day and night
[09:19:03] <zeeshan> Tom_itx: do you know if any lights are supposed to light up on the 4 leds on the 5i25?
[09:25:54] <pcw_home> only if you setp them...
[09:27:34] <zeeshan> would i be seeing all those output and input00 pins
[09:27:44] <zeeshan> that say like 5i25 and 7i77 in them, if there was no communication?
[09:28:03] <pcw_home> No
[09:28:27] <zeeshan> i dont know if this is the right way to do things but i think im getting the red light on the 7i77 on the bottom right because of watchdog failure
[09:29:24] <zeeshan> i am trying to test some output states. hal run, loadrt hostmot2, loadrt hm2_pci, setp appropriate 5i25.7i77_output00 pin to true
[09:29:31] <pcw_home> red light on 7i77 means comms have been lost (normal before linuxcnc is running and after it is shut down)
[09:29:55] <zeeshan> is there a pin i can trigger, to get out of that mode temporarily
[09:30:02] <zeeshan> so i can test i/o manually
[09:30:34] <pcw_home> run linuxcnc use watch...
[09:30:48] <zeeshan> that would mean i need t oconfiugre a linuxcnc config first hehe
[09:31:28] <zeeshan> okay im happy ididnt blow up the 7i77
[09:31:30] <pcw_home> well a simple config is not more than about 4 lines
[09:31:32] <zeeshan> means wiring is somewhat good :P
[09:32:05] <JT-Shop> http://gnipsel.com/linuxcnc/configs/7i77.html
[09:33:24] <zeeshan> JT-Shop: in the additional files zip, what does hm2-servo.var do
[09:33:33] <zeeshan> it has a bunch of 0's in it :P
[09:34:20] <zeeshan> JT-Shop: also i noticed in the first zip file, there are parameters defined for the axis
[09:34:36] <zeeshan> i was trying to start with a barebone config to just test i/o to ensure i didnt reverse solenoid direction
[09:34:53] <pcw_home> you can test with halrun but the remote I/O stuff needs a thread setup
[09:34:54] <JT-Shop> those files are the tool table and variables files
[09:34:57] <zeeshan> so if there was magically something that trigger the servo drives to move, i wouldnt burn up the z servo
[09:35:27] <pcw_home> I would disable your servos for initial tests
[09:35:33] <JT-Shop> just comment out or delete most of the lines after the first few
[09:35:34] <zeeshan> they are in red mode right now
[09:35:35] <zeeshan> meaning disabled
[09:35:51] <pcw_home> I mean remove power
[09:36:14] <pcw_home> as in estop
[09:47:36] <zeeshan> i dont know why i didnt think of that
[09:47:48] <zeeshan> btw you guys were right. killing primary side of vfd even during motor operation
[09:47:50] <zeeshan> doesnt blow up the vfd
[09:47:59] <zeeshan> i dont know who/what engraved that in my brain
[09:48:05] <zeeshan> i finally said f , and tried it out
[09:48:41] <pcw_home> dont break at motor leads though...
[09:49:06] <zeeshan> pcw_home: yes, it when you break at the motor leads they recommend a timed type of break.
[09:49:18] <zeeshan> the auxiliary contacts must drive in "reset mode"
[09:49:37] <pcw_home> Yeah only when current is 0
[09:49:43] <zeeshan> before the contacts for the motor leads open
[09:50:33] <skunkworks> we have killed the power side of all the vfd/servo drives (during estop) and have not had any problems.
[09:50:35] <zeeshan> loadrt trivkins, loadrt [EMCMOT]EMCMOT servo_period_nsec=[EMCMOT]SERVO_PERIOD num_joints=[TRAJ]AXES, loadrt hostmot2 debug_idrom=1 debug_module_descriptors=1 debug_pin_descriptors=1 debug_modules=1, loadrt [HOSTMOT2](DRIVER) config=[HOSTMOT2](CONFIG), setp hm2_[HOSTMOT2](BOARD).0.watchdog.timeout_ns 10000000
[09:51:08] <zeeshan> skunkworks: i was thinking power cycling e-stop rapidly can blow up things
[09:51:25] <zeeshan> i think it will blow up a smps type powersupply maybe
[09:51:49] <skunkworks> well - on my machines - letting out the estop doesn't power things back up...
[09:51:52] <zeeshan> my 24vdc 6A psu draws 40amp inrush!
[09:52:09] <zeeshan> skunkworks: you're not directly controlling the contactors?
[09:52:49] <skunkworks> I am. but you have to use the linuxcnc estop 'button' to bring it out of estop again.
[09:53:05] <zeeshan> ah you have them in a chain
[09:54:11] <skunkworks> http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?Sample_HAL_And_ClassicLadder
[09:54:24] <skunkworks> type 4 ladder
[09:54:34] <skunkworks> I think is the best...
[10:04:27] <cradek> Answer backwards is teser-potse ro <1F> sserp dna nottub lanretxe eht esaeler.
[10:04:38] <cradek> man, anyone can edit a wiki
[10:28:21] <skunkworks> Is that wrong?
[10:28:55] <skunkworks> I think that hails from ray days...
[10:45:27] <zeeshan> cant find an answer to this
[10:45:33] <zeeshan> how do you setup the servos to work in open loop
[10:46:01] <zeeshan> (so i want to use hal scope to see if servo is velocity tuned)
[10:46:07] <zeeshan> within the drive itself
[10:47:00] <zeeshan> do i have an old version of linuxcnc if i dont see 5i25 in the mesa0pci/parport card in i/iocontrol boards in pnc conf
[10:47:45] <pcw_home> probably, newer pncconfs have 5i25/7i77 configs built in
[10:49:40] <zeeshan> i'm confused on what the procedure is in linuxcnc side to first velocity tune the servos using the servo drive loop itself but only use linuxcnc for its hal scope
[10:49:55] <zeeshan> those configs jt posted already have values for pid ff
[10:50:02] <zeeshan> won't that interfere?
[10:50:06] <zeeshan> asap i try to enable the servo
[10:50:18] <zeeshan> (i dont have glass encoders hooked up yet)
[10:52:32] <zeeshan> ubuntu-10.04-linuxcnc3-i386.iso
[10:52:39] <pcw_home> I would do an open loop test first, you need to set loop gain and tachometer gain
[10:52:48] <zeeshan> what versio nof linuxcnc is on that/ how do i find out current linuxcnc version
[10:53:18] <archivist> it is in the title when started
[10:53:22] <pcw_home> I would download the latest (wheezy 2.6.5 iso)
[10:53:25] <zeeshan> archivist: it crashes lol
[10:53:46] <zeeshan> pcw_home: i have a few drivers installed
[10:54:36] <zeeshan> the live cd has 2.6
[10:54:40] <zeeshan> it doesnt sday 2.6.5
[10:55:37] <archivist> one updates the live cd as part two of getting it going
[10:57:41] <zeeshan> archivist: after in install the 2.6 livecd
[10:57:45] <zeeshan> where do i grab the 2.6.5 files from
[10:57:47] <zeeshan> i dont see it on the website
[10:58:05] <zeeshan> http://buildbot.linuxcnc.org/
[10:58:06] <zeeshan> that?
[10:59:19] <zeeshan> nm
[10:59:22] <zeeshan> the is version is 2.6.4
[10:59:28] * zeeshan needs to learn to read
[11:01:21] <skunkworks> apt-get update/upgrade...
[11:01:38] <zeeshan> okay
[11:05:30] <zeeshan> yea i got 2.5.4 installed on the mill
[11:05:45] <Bushman> 14:08:42 < malcom2073> Amusing that A: He felt the need to specify it's not supposed to be a copy (love the internet), and B: 4 points on a dickbutt request.
[11:05:51] <zeeshan> ill do 2.6.4 live cd install -> apt get update to 2.6.5
[11:06:13] <Bushman> malcom2073: you'd be suprised how many commented on it NOT looking the same
[11:06:29] <Bushman> i had to explain to them it's not suppose to "be the same"
[11:06:33] <malcom2073> Bushman: I know! haha that's why I found it amusing. Good call cutting them off before they started
[11:06:51] <Bushman> malcom2073: well, they did
[11:06:55] <Bushman> elsewhere
[11:07:07] <malcom2073> heh
[11:07:11] <Bushman> i thought i'd rather be on the safe side here
[11:07:31] <zeeshan> 25000 ns latency ok to run stuff?
[11:07:35] <zeeshan> im avging 19000
[11:07:46] <zeeshan> when surfing the internets
[11:08:10] <Bushman> also, i've added video (by user request) of one of the gobos in action for people who need to see what it does
[11:08:16] <pcw_home> it OK
[11:08:21] <pcw_home> its
[11:08:36] <Bushman> zeeshan: don't average it
[11:08:46] <zeeshan> Bushman: peak.
[11:08:49] <Bushman> zeeshan: but it's still better than what i get
[11:08:51] <Bushman> :P
[11:08:53] <zeeshan> want a buffer
[11:09:00] <zeeshan> i should move my lathe mobo to this mill
[11:09:00] <Bushman> i get peaks at 50k
[11:09:06] <zeeshan> that thing hits 4500 mx
[11:09:07] <zeeshan> max
[11:09:12] <zeeshan> but its software stepping so prolly needed more there
[11:09:20] <zeeshan> Bushman: maybe driver related?
[11:09:31] <Bushman> i'm using software stepping too
[11:09:52] <malcom2073> Bushman: Link to video?
[11:09:57] <malcom2073> I'm curious what they do too
[11:09:59] <Bushman> mine averages at 25000
[11:10:02] <Bushman> malcom2073: sure
[11:10:19] <Bushman> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nqTqILIU9kw
[11:10:36] <malcom2073> Ohhhh... that's really slick
[11:10:38] <zeeshan> haha
[11:10:39] <Bushman> only one. i've recorded it yesterday when i didn't have the other made yet
[11:10:40] <zeeshan> thats COOL
[11:11:35] <Bushman> thanks ;]
[11:14:55] <zeeshan> project that on your neigbours house
[11:20:17] <Bushman> heh, could be hard... i don't have MAC700 at home :P
[11:21:16] <PetefromTn_> neat....uh what the hell is it?
[11:22:10] <Bushman> the big black thing with bright light coming from it on the video
[11:22:48] <PetefromTn_> no I mean what is the symbol and what do you use the setup for?
[11:23:28] <Bushman> oh the symbol is just some random geometric shapes
[11:23:38] <Bushman> i made them on the whim
[11:24:06] <R2E4> What kind of machine is the whim?
[11:24:14] <R2E4> lol
[11:24:30] <Bushman> sorry, i can't english today :P
[11:26:53] <Bushman> i'm still looking for ideas for clever but not complex shapes for more GOBOs
[11:27:58] <Bushman> those were made with 1mm cutter but today 0.8mm and 0.5mm came in so i guess i'll be able to cut somethign more complex
[11:29:31] <Bushman> it's all wibbly wobbly on the edges cause one of my axis is made on furniure drawer slides XD
[11:30:32] <Bushman> but i've just ordered 2 more rails with a set of bearings and i'm hoping i'll be able to get rid of all this swinging from crappy lead screws with just good rails
[11:38:52] <SpeedEvil> Just add enough preload, it'll be fine.
[11:43:24] <Bushman> SpeedEvil: the screws work ok but aren't the straightest in the world cause i made them from cheap 8mm threaded rods from the hardware store
[11:44:08] <Bushman> and pretty much 2 axis work fine because they are made with proper hardened rails and linear bearings
[11:44:33] <Bushman> but the Y axis is made with the cheapest thing i could find XD
[11:44:53] <SpeedEvil> You should always use ground threads.
[11:45:03] <Bushman> (i've started with this axis)
[11:45:05] * LeelooMinai renames it to Why? Axis
[11:45:05] <SpeedEvil> Get a cut-off wheel, some bar, and a protractor
[11:45:45] <Bushman> SpeedEvil: huh?
[11:46:01] <Bushman> i plan on buying new threads for upgrade
[11:46:31] <Bushman> did not decide what to buy yet but i do not require insane precision
[11:47:19] <LeelooMinai> Probably one of those ACME(?) square threaded ones would be next step
[11:47:28] <Bushman> i wanted to buy cheap trapezoidal thread lead screws
[11:47:45] <Bushman> but they don't sell them here pre-machined
[11:48:03] <malcom2073> mcmaster has them for moderatly cheap prices
[11:48:18] <Bushman> and even the rolled ball screws are many times more expensive and unreasonable for my machine
[11:48:31] <Bushman> mcmaster?
[11:48:34] <Bushman> online?
[11:48:35] <malcom2073> Bushman: Where are you?
[11:48:37] <malcom2073> in the world?
[11:48:38] <malcom2073> yeah online
[11:49:00] <Bushman> i'm in Poland, Europe
[11:49:05] <malcom2073> Ah ok
[11:49:13] <Bushman> do they have it premachined?
[11:49:19] <malcom2073> define premachined?
[11:49:30] <LeelooMinai> With machined ends I presume
[11:49:37] <malcom2073> Ah, not that I know of.
[11:49:38] <Bushman> yes
[11:49:57] <malcom2073> But, I've seen people hand-grind them off with moderate success if you don't have a lathe
[11:50:08] <malcom2073> or a machine shop nearby
[11:50:10] <Bushman> yea. so i have the thread really cheap here but i would still have to find a company that would machine the ends for me
[11:50:44] <Bushman> my lathe is useles for this kind of job as it has no opening in the shaft
[11:50:49] <malcom2073> ahh yeah
[11:50:52] <Bushman> also it's junk
[11:50:57] <Bushman> :D
[11:51:05] <malcom2073> That's no good :)
[11:51:14] <Bushman> really old and broken in parts
[11:51:16] <Bushman> :P
[11:51:17] <PetefromTn_> a good machinist can make accurate parts on even junk machines heh
[11:51:18] * SpeedEvil passes Bushman a drill.
[11:51:28] <Bushman> PetefromTn_: true!
[11:51:43] <Bushman> PetefromTn_: as long as he can actually mount the stock in them LOL
[11:51:54] <SpeedEvil> As your quality drops, the time to make the part can get prohibitive
[11:51:58] <malcom2073> Bushman:
http://www.cnczone.com/forums/diy-cnc-router-table-machines/86180-turning-acme-screw-ends-without-lathe.html
[11:51:59] <PetefromTn_> imagination
[11:52:03] <Bushman> SpeedEvil: there was a plan to order a new shaft for it, yes
[11:52:25] <SpeedEvil> and you tend to swap from machining quality to metrology quality
[11:52:45] <SpeedEvil> If you have accurate metrology, you can make anything with a file.
[11:53:11] <Bushman> hmm..
[11:53:13] * LeelooMinai hands SpeedEvil a plastic file
[11:53:21] <Bushman> lol
[11:53:25] <Bushman> nail file
[11:53:49] <Bushman> tho i've turned a precision part with a nail file once
[11:53:50] <SpeedEvil> Just gets more annoying.
[11:54:19] <Bushman> it was 3mm brass shaft with some complex end and i had to copy it... it worked
[11:54:45] <SpeedEvil> Reminds me of the 1/4 scale fuel injector :)
[11:54:46] <Bushman> one of the features of the end was square part among other diameter short segments
[12:02:55] <zeeshan> anyone have this issue: when you install the live cd using graphical menus and get to the part where you need to partition,
[12:03:04] <zeeshan> it says partition failed.
[12:03:15] <zeeshan> when you retry, it says /dev/sda failed or something
[12:03:17] <Bushman> can't say i have
[12:03:19] <cradek> nope
[12:03:22] <malcom2073> Ok brain fart on AC power. If I have a heater who's resistance will make it pull 45amps at 220v. This means that the wires need to be capable of 50amps for both legs? or does 220 split it?
[12:03:36] <zeeshan> hmm
[12:03:53] <zeeshan> does ubuntu 10.04 use ext3 or ext4
[12:03:54] <cradek> malcom2073: look up your ampacity table and use the correct wire for the breaker
[12:03:56] <Bushman> legs?
[12:04:18] <zeeshan> malcom2073: yea
[12:04:23] <zeeshan> 8awg will work
[12:04:26] <malcom2073> cradek: The breaker says 50A, but it is attached to two 110v rails, so what does 50A mean? per rail? Or combined?
[12:04:29] <zeeshan> assuming 75C conductors/breaker
[12:04:35] <Bushman> malcom2073: do you mean both source wires, neutral and live?
[12:04:43] <zeeshan> malcom2073: are you in usa?
[12:04:44] <malcom2073> Bushman: Two live wires
[12:04:45] <malcom2073> no neutral
[12:04:47] <malcom2073> zeeshan: yes in USA
[12:04:52] <malcom2073> so split neutral
[12:05:00] <Bushman> oh
[12:05:06] <zeeshan> for 220v its 50A per rail
[12:05:13] <zeeshan> er
[12:05:22] <zeeshan> its 110V 50A per rail
[12:05:29] <malcom2073> Gotcha
[12:05:29] <malcom2073> So 8awg
[12:05:32] <zeeshan> yes
[12:05:35] <malcom2073> at the smallest
[12:05:36] <malcom2073> thanks
[12:05:42] <zeeshan> you have 75C breakers right?
[12:05:56] <zeeshan> read the breaker and see what the terminals are rated for
[12:06:03] <malcom2073> not sure, I'll double check
[12:06:06] <malcom2073> it's wired to a 50A welding socket
[12:06:08] <zeeshan> if they say 60C , then you need to use 6awg
[12:06:10] <malcom2073> but I'll make sure they wired it proper
[12:06:20] <malcom2073> So I'm plugging into a welder socket
[12:09:18] <malcom2073> Just wanted to make sure I got the right wire for the wall->device
[12:09:31] <malcom2073> I got 8awg, but was second guessing if I needed it that large, guess I do :)
[12:12:06] <cradek> looks like it might need to be 6
[12:12:09] <cradek> better ask an electrician
[12:12:27] <_methods> always add P to any project
[12:12:45] <_methods> P = Plenty
[12:12:46] <_methods> lol
[12:12:47] <malcom2073> heh
[12:13:04] <malcom2073> This is open air, not in-wall, so 8arg should work for up to 50A, but really no more since it'll get warm
[12:13:15] <cradek> hah 8arg
[12:13:36] <_methods> that's what you do when you see the price of the wire
[12:13:41] <cradek> yep
[12:13:48] <malcom2073> yeah really
[12:15:16] <_methods> hahah it's AWG till you get the bill then it's ARG
[12:15:56] <malcom2073> I'd rather not ask an electrician, they'd shoot me if they saw what I'm doing :-D
[12:18:04] <malcom2073> Well I have a 50A breaker on the device itself, 8awg wire to a 50A welding plug, I'll verify there is at least 8awg wire from the plug to the box, and a 75C breaker in the box before I hook it up.
[12:18:31] <zeeshan> nec 310.16
[12:18:31] <malcom2073> I don't trust they wired that part right anyway
[12:18:33] <zeeshan> covers this
[12:18:46] <zeeshan> https://lugsdirect.com/WireCurrentAmpacitiesNEC-Table-301-16.htm
[12:19:01] <zeeshan> even though youll likely use THHN
[12:19:07] <zeeshan> which is rated for 90C
[12:19:13] <malcom2073> so if I have 75C conductor, I can do 50A heh
[12:19:14] <zeeshan> you need to still look at 75C column
[12:19:21] <zeeshan> because your breaker terminals are rated for 75
[12:19:28] <malcom2073> Gotcha, i'll make sure they're rated for that
[12:20:05] <zeeshan> also just remember tha tis rated for 30C ambient
[12:20:16] <malcom2073> This is in the garage, and if I'm running this device, it's damn cold
[12:20:28] <zeeshan> yea i dont think my garage hits more than 30C in the summer
[12:20:58] <zeeshan> this isnt some 100 foot long run is it
[12:21:03] <malcom2073> 5ft run
[12:21:07] <zeeshan> okay :P
[12:21:30] <malcom2073> Mounting this heater on a bracket on the wall, next to the plug heh
[12:21:35] <malcom2073> which is 5ft from the breaker box
[12:22:08] <zeeshan> if you wanna be safe, you should run 6awg
[12:22:17] <zeeshan> so your wire doesnt run as hot
[12:22:19] <malcom2073> If this works, and I wind up permanently installing it, I will
[12:22:29] <zeeshan> thats what i did with my heater
[12:22:33] <malcom2073> I'll run a dedicated circuit for it
[12:22:33] <zeeshan> it called for 30A load
[12:22:44] <zeeshan> i ran a 30A breaker on a 8 awg wire
[12:23:20] <malcom2073> That is, if it's effecctive enough to justify the $6 an hour it'll cost to run
[12:23:37] <jdh> ?
[12:23:45] <malcom2073> 10kw heater
[12:23:57] <malcom2073> for my concrete box of a garage
[12:24:02] <jdh> that's a lot of heat.
[12:24:25] <malcom2073> Not really, my dad has 9kw of wall mounted heaters in his garage, it's semi-insulated, and that barely keeps up in the winter
[12:25:07] <malcom2073> This is forced air though :-D
[12:25:10] <zeeshan> some people hate electric heaters
[12:25:12] <zeeshan> cause they cause fires
[12:25:44] <jdh> $0.94/hr here
[12:25:54] <zeeshan> portable propane heaters are worse i think.
[12:25:58] <malcom2073> for 10kw? Maybe it's cheaper here I dunno
[12:26:05] <zeeshan> you really need some external ventilation for the fumes
[12:26:09] <zeeshan> co2
[12:26:16] <malcom2073> Right
[12:26:20] <malcom2073> that also means lost heat
[12:26:23] <malcom2073> unless you use a heat exchanger
[12:26:30] <zeeshan> yea, but even with lost heat
[12:26:33] <zeeshan> it ends up being a lot cheaper :P
[12:26:37] <malcom2073> True
[12:26:42] <malcom2073> this was free though in terms of materials :)
[12:26:47] <malcom2073> well... plus price of wire and plug
[12:26:52] <zeeshan> i wouldnt do a propane heater
[12:26:56] <zeeshan> ive been considering natural gas
[12:26:58] <zeeshan> since the line is right there
[12:27:03] <malcom2073> I have natural gas
[12:28:26] <roycroft> i have a heater similar to this:
[12:28:27] <roycroft> http://www.amazon.com/dp/B00HS8FZAC/ref=psdc_510182_t3_B000TK2SWO
[12:28:34] <roycroft> i use it in my garage and in my welding shop
[12:28:52] <malcom2073> roycroft: I've basically built that, but 10kw
[12:29:08] <roycroft> neither of which are insulated, and it heats them pretty quickly even in the dead of winter (which around here is just a little less than freezing - -2c or so)
[12:29:14] <malcom2073> Nice
[12:29:16] <jdh> my garage heater warms up things within a couple of feet right in front of it.
[12:29:16] <malcom2073> that's good to know
[12:29:24] <roycroft> it's interesting because it has multiple power taps
[12:29:34] <roycroft> you can wire it to whatever amperage you have available
[12:29:40] <malcom2073> Ohh nice
[12:29:58] <roycroft> yeah, i'd like to get another one so i don't have to move them around
[12:30:01] <jdh> that looks pretty nice.
[12:30:05] <roycroft> but they are expensive
[12:30:14] <jdh> I have a 240vac window unit for my garage a/c
[12:30:15] <roycroft> it's not heavy
[12:30:30] <roycroft> i'd just like to mount it from the ceiling joists instead of setting it on a countertop
[12:31:01] <roycroft> i could probably fabricate another bracket for it and do that, but then it gets to be a pain in the butt to lift it up and mount it/unmount it all the time
[12:31:19] <roycroft> i'm getting old, and would rather spend money and do less work
[12:43:51] <PetefromTn_> I use or rather USED a portable force air kerosene blower heater to knock off the chill in the morning and once it was comfortable out there shut it off and use the electric heater I have here which is similar to the one that Roycroft uses to maintain the temps. When it is REALLY cold outside sometimes I just use the forced air kerosene heater on the thermostat and still use the electric one to help it stay comfy. I DO NOT LI
[12:44:20] <roycroft> i have a couple big kerosene/diesel heaters, but both of them stink up the shop
[12:44:23] <malcom2073> My dad uses a kerosens heater to do the same, knock the chill off, then his electronics to maintain
[12:44:27] <roycroft> they do an initial heat really fast
[12:44:41] <roycroft> and if they did not stink up the shop i would do exactly that
[12:44:52] <roycroft> on cold days, i go out first thing (like 6am) and turn on the heater
[12:44:58] <PetefromTn_> I honestly never really have been bothered by any smells... You gotta maintain them or they will stink it up...
[12:45:02] <roycroft> and figure i can start working comfortably around 9:30-10:00
[12:45:32] <roycroft> which for what i do is almost always fine
[12:45:37] <PetefromTn_> I have heard that the diesel smells worse and mine was a dual fuel
[12:45:49] <roycroft> what's fun is when you have to shoot paint in the winter
[12:45:58] <PetefromTn_> I tried the diesel once or twice and did not really notice any difference
[12:46:27] <roycroft> i close up all the nooks and crannies as best i can, crank the heat up as high as i can, then kill the heat right when it's time to start spraying
[12:46:36] <PetefromTn_> maybe I am less sensitive to the smells...
[12:46:46] <roycroft> and even then, when it's really cold out i just wait for warmer weather
[12:47:11] <PetefromTn_> I have sprayed many many gallons of paint in my shop doing cabinet work with the heater running the whole time heh
[12:47:37] <PetefromTn_> even shot a lot of lacquer
[12:47:45] <PetefromTn_> which is supposed to be highly flammable...
[12:47:52] <PetefromTn_> never had a problem
[12:48:04] <jdh> as we can tell by your continued existence
[12:48:06] <PetefromTn_> but I always crack the doors and put an exhaust fan
[12:48:24] <PetefromTn_> under the garage doors to evacuate the majority of the fumes..
[12:48:39] <PetefromTn_> I also sprayed towards the crack in the door whenever possible.
[12:50:49] <PetefromTn_> thats one thing I really dislike about living here in tennessee... it gets pretty cold some winter days and makes working in the shop costly... if you want to be comfortable that is.
[12:51:14] <jdh> imagine all those poor people that live up north.
[12:51:41] <jdh> NY, VT, ME, ND, CA, MN
[12:51:54] <PetefromTn_> that's their problem I will be living down south at some point here and I personally can't wait to be done with this whole winter thing LOL
[12:52:30] <PetefromTn_> would rather sweat my ass off any day hehe
[12:53:29] <jdh> me too
[12:53:54] <PetefromTn_> with any luck we will be going on a vacation in Florida here soon man...
[12:54:22] <jdh> me too!
[12:54:27] <PetefromTn_> last time we were down there was like 2010 or 2011
[12:54:32] <PetefromTn_> been far too long...
[12:55:29] <jdh> yeah, too long for me too.
[12:55:38] * jdh checks calendar.
[12:56:16] <jdh> either "last year" or "almost 2 weeks" since I got to go.
[12:56:36] <PetefromTn_> do you usually drive or fly?
[12:56:44] <jdh> always drive
[12:57:06] <PetefromTn_> we were looking at renting a mini van or something for the trip
[12:57:09] <jdh> I take a lot of stuff with me.
[12:57:11] <roycroft> i would not mind living a bit farther south
[12:57:23] <roycroft> but "a bit farther south" in terms of avoiding winter weather means california
[12:57:35] <roycroft> and that's too far for me :P
[12:57:37] <jdh> little cuba
[12:57:37] <PetefromTn_> I lived in Norcal and Socal
[12:57:45] <roycroft> i actually really like california
[12:57:58] <PetefromTn_> Yeah Cali is beautiful place but stupid expensive
[12:58:02] <roycroft> but i don't like the regulatory structure that makes it difficult to conduct business there
[12:58:21] <roycroft> and really does not do the environmental and social protection things it's designed to do
[12:58:32] <jdh> I paid $1.89 for gas yesterday
[12:58:35] <PetefromTn_> yeah they got some crazy ass laws..
[12:58:39] <PetefromTn_> me too!!
[12:58:46] <PetefromTn_> been paying that for almost two weeks now or so
[12:59:07] <jdh> not here, I had to go to Richmond yesterday
[12:59:09] <PetefromTn_> supposed to be under $2.00 nationwide soon so might be even less here..
[12:59:39] <PetefromTn_> makes driving my beloved Fullsize BRonco less of an indulgence hehe
[12:59:47] <jdh> yukon xl
[12:59:59] <jdh> probably still better mileage than a bronco though!
[13:00:00] <PetefromTn_> what you get in that thing?
[13:00:11] <jdh> 17-18
[13:00:14] <PetefromTn_> I get like 14-15
[13:00:22] <PetefromTn_> around town
[13:00:37] <PetefromTn_> unless I really stomp the pedal
[13:00:42] <zeeshan> man no matter what i do
[13:00:44] <PetefromTn_> then you can watch the gauge move..
[13:00:50] <zeeshan> i keep getting failed partition in this debian wheezy nonsense
[13:01:04] <PetefromTn_> It must not like you zeeshan
[13:01:14] <PetefromTn_> :0
[13:01:18] <zeeshan> lol
[13:01:25] <zeeshan> i have 2.5.4 installed on it
[13:01:30] <zeeshan> i guess its something to do with debian.
[13:01:49] <PetefromTn_> Can't help ya I have Ubuntu
[13:02:10] <zeeshan> im gonna run the livecd
[13:02:13] <zeeshan> make the partition
[13:02:16] <zeeshan> and see if that works.
[13:03:56] <PetefromTn_> Good luck man.
[13:04:08] <PetefromTn_> what year is your Yukon?
[13:04:15] <jdh> 11
[13:04:36] <jdh> had a 2008 taht got worse mileage and consumed oil
[13:04:41] <PetefromTn_> I actually like those better than the new ones... I think they screwed up the looks on the new ones.
[13:05:25] <roycroft> biodiesel is down to $3.39/gallon here, for b99
[13:05:45] <roycroft> it's been $3.79 for a few months, and was $3.99 for years before that
[13:06:01] <PetefromTn_> well gotta tear down this setup and put my Kurt back on the Cinci....
[13:06:13] <roycroft> we have this weird tax incentive for blended fuel
[13:06:16] <Tom_itx> $1.74 for regular
[13:06:25] <jdh> nice
[13:06:25] <roycroft> it's supposed to promote blending biofuels into petrofuels
[13:06:26] <PetefromTn_> woah nice
[13:06:33] <PetefromTn_> is that with any sort of discount?
[13:06:35] <jdh> Thanks Obama
[13:06:35] <roycroft> but they way it's written it requires a blend
[13:06:48] <roycroft> it's a state incentive of $1/gallon
[13:07:01] <roycroft> so if i were to fill up with b100 it would cost me $4.39/gallon
[13:07:07] <roycroft> but b99.9 is $3.39
[13:07:33] <jdh> it's good to be subsidized
[13:07:46] <PetefromTn_> http://www.ebay.com/itm/321172469980?_trksid=p2060778.m1438.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT I need this...hehe
[13:07:48] <roycroft> i'm willing to burn the occasional dinosaur toenail to save $1/gallon
[13:08:10] <roycroft> i'd pay full price if the subsidy weren't there
[13:08:21] <roycroft> but i'm not going to neglect the subsidy if it's available
[13:08:34] <jdh> pete: for what?
[13:14:35] <SpeedEvil> It's jsut a pity that with current biofuel - not from waste oil - the energy may be negative
[13:14:41] <SpeedEvil> at the very best it's not a clear positive
[13:14:46] <roycroft> bioethanol, definitely
[13:14:49] <roycroft> but not the case with biodiesel
[13:14:55] <roycroft> it's carbon neutral and energy positive
[13:15:07] <roycroft> the ethanol subsidy is a bunch of crap
[13:16:17] <roycroft> it's just pork for the corn states
[13:18:26] <SpeedEvil> WVO is pure win
[13:18:44] <SpeedEvil> Plus - you can't quite simply count the energy cost of the corn and ...
[13:18:55] <SpeedEvil> you've also if you're subsidising it got to cost the cost of a subsidy dollar
[13:19:56] <roycroft> the oregon biodiesel subsidy is just a price incentive
[13:20:10] <roycroft> the issue with ethanol is the energy equation
[13:20:26] <roycroft> it generally takes more than a gallon of petroleum fuel to make a gallon of ethanol
[13:21:19] <roycroft> the fuel i buy is refined here in oregon
[13:21:23] <roycroft> some of it is waste oil
[13:21:27] <roycroft> but much of it is virgin oil
[13:21:42] <roycroft> the southern willamette valley is the grass seed capital of the country
[13:22:03] <roycroft> and the grass fields used to be plowed under and then burned and left fallow over the winter
[13:22:36] <roycroft> field burning has been mostly prohibited due to pollution generally, and huge multi-vehicle accidents on i5 when the burning took place
[13:23:12] <roycroft> now many of those farms grow rapeseed in the off season, which is a legume and therefore nitrogen fixer, and also provides oil seed for fuel
[13:23:42] <roycroft> because it's a nitrogen fixer the farmers use less fertilizer when they grow their grass seed crop
[13:23:56] <roycroft> and they don't consume fuel for field burning
[13:24:33] <roycroft> overall the equation is very favorable towards biodiesel
[13:28:10] <mozmck> roycroft: that's interesting. I knew the ethanol con was only good for corn growers, but I hadn't heard much about biodiesel, or about rapeseed being nitrogen fixing etc.
[13:30:36] <zeeshan> nope
[13:30:47] <zeeshan> manual fdisk use, t hen installing did not work.
[13:30:54] <zeeshan> it tries to recreate the partition in the partition manager
[13:31:46] <roycroft> it is interesting
[13:32:06] <roycroft> and i do not see biodiesel, as we produce it now at least, as a mass replacement for petroleum-based fuels
[13:32:23] <roycroft> it's a niche market that cannot scale well, but it works for me right now
[13:33:47] <_methods> roy your in oregon?
[13:34:04] <mozmck> no, plus, the petroleum reserves are far greater than is generally made out. It's mostly all politics and money.
[13:34:12] <_methods> family is all from myrtle point and remote
[13:34:24] <zeeshan> hey anyone whos installed the livecd before
[13:34:38] <zeeshan> when you just go to live cd, will it let you install it after youre booted up
[13:35:07] <mozmck> zeeshan: I think so, but I don't remember for sure. that is pretty typical though
[13:35:28] <JT-Shop> which livecd?
[13:36:00] <zeeshan> LinuxCNC 2.6.4
[13:36:02] <_methods> yes you can install after booting
[13:36:21] <zeeshan> okay ill try this time booting, getting in the os
[13:36:29] <JT-Shop> the Ubuntu 10.04 you can the Debian Wheezy you can not
[13:36:30] <zeeshan> and using gparted to partition and then install
[13:36:36] <_methods> you can always manually make all your partitions
[13:36:41] <zeeshan> oh JT-Shop..
[13:36:42] <_methods> then just copy everything over too
[13:36:59] <zeeshan> _methods it forces you to go through parititon manager during the install
[13:37:02] <_methods> make your partitions before you start
[13:37:06] <zeeshan> i did
[13:37:13] <zeeshan> i used fdisk to make a primary 83 and primary 82
[13:37:22] <_methods> and that's it?
[13:37:25] <zeeshan> yea
[13:37:32] <_methods> waht about swap
[13:37:40] <zeeshan> 83 is my swap
[13:37:54] <zeeshan> type 82 i think linux
[13:37:54] <_methods> and you only have 1 other partition besides swap?
[13:37:58] <zeeshan> type 83 is linux swap
[13:38:02] <zeeshan> yes
[13:38:20] <_methods> so you're putting your whole install on /
[13:38:29] <zeeshan> yes
[13:38:53] <_methods> where's your boot partition?
[13:39:03] <zeeshan> that should be /
[13:40:06] <zeeshan> im gonna retry
[13:40:57] <_methods> well if you can't install from a livecd you got some serious problems lol
[13:41:24] <cradek> picking the defaults using the debian cd has always worked for me
[13:41:36] <cradek> are you trying to do something custom?
[13:47:07] <_methods> just install arch like a man
[13:48:27] <cradek> if it doesn't work for you, check hard disk settings in the bios? ahci should be on
[13:48:44] <cradek> legacy emulation stuff off
[13:57:05] <gene78> hey guys, what the keystroke to kill a runaway file load? ctl+c isn't doing it
[14:00:10] <zeeshan> cradek no
[14:00:21] <zeeshan> finally got an error in gparted
[14:00:26] <zeeshan> that gives more than a "FAILED"
[14:00:27] <zeeshan> http://pastebin.com/XjNN6cf7
[14:01:12] <zeeshan> i think this is the doing of the SATA to IDE converter.
[14:01:18] <zeeshan> it worked fine in 10.04 though.
[14:01:38] <cradek> hardware bad? bogus virus protection turned on in the bios?
[14:01:45] <zeeshan> nahh
[14:01:48] <zeeshan> i think its hardware
[14:01:51] <zeeshan> the stupid sata to ide converter
[14:01:52] <cradek> the what who converter?
[14:02:03] <mozmck> gene78: I don't know if there is one for that in particular - try the power button on the front of the computer :)
[14:02:15] <zeeshan> http://www.amazon.com/dp/B004LCDZT6/ref=asc_df_B004LCDZT63458051?smid=A284PRV19Y1MTF&tag=pgmp-423-97-20&linkCode=df0&creative=395109&creativeASIN=B004LCDZT6
[14:02:16] <zeeshan> that stuff
[14:02:34] <zeeshan> i think im gonna just go pick up another motherboard
[14:02:36] <zeeshan> that has sata
[14:02:51] <zeeshan> it just sucks that it worked with 10.04
[14:03:09] <mozmck> I would think that was a good thing!
[14:03:25] <mozmck> ;)
[14:03:33] <zeeshan> it is a good thing
[14:03:43] <zeeshan> maybe i should just go back to 2.5.4
[14:07:40] <cradek> you can sure run 2.6 on lucid
[14:08:02] <cradek> even with that weird converter, you should still check your ahci settings
[14:10:03] <mozmck> I wonder how long until the debian jessie release? Looks like it has way less release-critical bugs than the current stable branch:
https://bugs.debian.org/release-critical/
[14:12:36] <andypugh> I wonder why so many CAM companies are in the UK? So far I think that Dolphin, Delcam, SheetCAM and CamBam are all based here.
[14:12:50] <andypugh> It’s not like we make anything in the UK any more.
[14:14:00] <andypugh> I wonder why we both started our questions with “I wonder” ?
[14:14:43] <zeeshan> whatr was that mobo pcw recommended
[14:14:51] <zeeshan> not the d525
[14:14:53] <zeeshan> it was some celeron
[14:22:41] <mozmck> andypugh: maybe because the countries now doing most of the "making" are not capable of doing the designing :)
[14:24:42] <andypugh> zeeshan:
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813132104&cm_re=j1800-_-13-132-104-_-Product
[14:28:18] <zeeshan> no serial port :/
[14:28:35] <zeeshan> i do see a header option for it though
[14:28:49] <CaptHindsight> http://linuxgizmos.com/tiny-fanless-mini-pc-runs-linux-on-quad-core-amd-soc/ $129 for the base version, might be nice with hm2_eth
[14:28:49] <zeeshan> this is so weird. i reinstalled 2.5.4 fine.
[14:29:03] <zeeshan> my computer for some reason does not like debian
[14:29:08] <zeeshan> but gparted has nothing to do with that.
[14:38:04] <andypugh> CaptHindsight: 8 GPIOs could make it a nice little home automation server.
[14:38:11] <andypugh> (for small homes :-)
[14:40:48] <CaptHindsight> andypugh: they toggle pretty quick, several hundred Khz with read, modify, write
[14:41:21] <zeeshan-mill> is there anyway to check version in halrun
[14:42:33] <andypugh> There again, what does it offer that the NCBox doesn’t? And that has two parrports:
http://www.roboard.com/ncbox-189.html
[14:44:00] <CaptHindsight> similar just vortex86 (486ish core) vs APU
[14:44:13] <zeeshan-mill> help help!
[14:44:19] <zeeshan-mill> actual servo period
[14:44:23] <zeeshan-mill> is that based off max jitter
[14:44:31] <andypugh> Nice perk: I am currently installing Autodesk Inventor and HSM Express for free as a side-effect of my empoyer having a license :-)
[14:44:59] <andypugh> zeeshan: No, I think it is just an integer number of base periods
[14:45:12] <andypugh> Does the value actually change?
[14:45:29] <zeeshan-mill> yea you can set to whatever in pncconf
[14:46:12] <zeeshan-mill> ill leave it to default :P
[14:46:20] <andypugh> Oh, I thought you were talking about a HAL parameter!
[14:49:29] <zeeshan-mill> number of smart serial ports
[14:49:30] <zeeshan-mill> should be 0?
[14:49:32] <zeeshan-mill> not using any
[14:49:50] <zeeshan-mill> this pncconf is fancy
[14:53:37] <andypugh> zeeshan: If you are using a 7i76 or 7i77 then there is no harm in enabling the SS port, the pins are not useful for anything else (I don’t thnk).
[14:54:02] <andypugh> If you are _not_ using those boards, and want the pins for GPIO, then disable it.
[14:54:03] <zeeshan-mill> okay
[14:54:11] <zeeshan-mill> so i choose firmware 7i77x2 with one 7i77
[14:54:12] <JT-Shop> must be 80F in here... sweating
[14:54:26] <zeeshan-mill> number of encoders 6, number of pwmgen 0, number of step gen 0, num serial ports 1.
[14:54:30] <zeeshan-mill> total # of pins 34 ?
[14:54:37] <JT-Shop> you need to choose what matches your 5i25 firmware
[14:54:41] <zeeshan-mill> number of channels 3
[14:54:49] <zeeshan-mill> how do i tell
[14:55:15] <andypugh> Ah, 7i77 uses smart-serial for GPIO and (I think) for analogue outputs. So enable all SmartSerial.
[14:55:44] <zeeshan-mill> ah okay
[14:56:15] <andypugh> Actually, I changed my mind again :-)
[14:56:44] <andypugh> All the _channels_ on a single 5i25 header share a _port_
[14:59:17] <malcom2073> Wooo, that heater gets really hot really fast
[15:00:29] <zeeshan-mill> nice
[15:00:36] <zeeshan-mill> if p is set to one
[15:00:41] <zeeshan-mill> id, ff0-2 = 0
[15:00:47] <zeeshan-mill> bias 0 deadband 0
[15:00:49] <zeeshan-mill> max output 10
[15:00:55] <zeeshan-mill> it wont be in closed loop right? :)
[15:02:11] <andypugh> P is enough to be closed-loop
[15:02:34] <zeeshan-mill> see its not current velocity tuned yet at thed rive
[15:02:41] <zeeshan-mill> i just want to use linuxcnc to manually trigger the enable
[15:02:43] <zeeshan-mill> so i can tune the drive
[15:03:06] <zeeshan-mill> and watch it in hal scope
[15:03:24] <zeeshan-mill> thats why i want it to be in open loop for position
[15:03:43] <andypugh> Hmm.
[15:04:25] <andypugh> Assuming that the PID is position-command and position-feedback, and the PID is enabled, then it will be closed-loop with any P gain. (but probably badly tuned)
[15:04:56] <zeeshan-mill> andypugh, do you know what lines of code i need to make halrun work
[15:05:04] <zeeshan-mill> right now 7i77 is inwatch dog failure
[15:05:10] <zeeshan-mill> so i cant trigger outputs either which i need to test
[15:05:29] <andypugh> From halrun I do
[15:05:31] <andypugh> halrun
[15:05:37] <andypugh> loadrt hostmot2
[15:05:43] <andypugh> loadrt hm2_pci
[15:05:46] <andypugh> loadrt threads
[15:05:51] <zeeshan-mill> ok i see pins
[15:06:03] <zeeshan-mill> hm2_5i25.0.7i77.0.0.output-00
[15:06:04] <andypugh> addf hm2_5i25.0.read thread1
[15:06:12] <zeeshan-mill> i hope that physically refers to output 0.
[15:06:13] <andypugh> addf hm2_5i25.0.write thread1
[15:06:25] <andypugh> addf hm2_5i25.pet-watchdog thread1
[15:06:27] <andypugh> start
[15:06:56] <andypugh> loadrt pid
[15:06:58] <andypugh> addf..
[15:07:16] <andypugh> Probably best to actually “source” your HAL file or close facsimile thereof
[15:07:31] <andypugh> Otherwise the typing gets really tedious
[15:07:43] <andypugh> As you can probably tell by how I could rattle it off by rote
[15:08:22] <zeeshan-mill> HAL: ERROR: function 'hm2_5i25.pet-watchdog' not found
[15:08:27] <zeeshan-mill> i cant believe you have it memorized
[15:08:28] <zeeshan-mill> haha
[15:08:37] <zeeshan-mill> seems like youve typed it enough
[15:09:19] <andypugh> Use tab-completion to get the watchdog function name
[15:09:37] <zeeshan-mill> ok .0. was missing
[15:09:37] <andypugh> so addf hm[tab] [tab]
[15:10:24] <zeeshan-mill> youre the man.
[15:10:27] <zeeshan-mill> im out of watchdog failure
[15:10:33] <zeeshan-mill> getting the 1hz flashing green light now
[15:10:49] <zeeshan-mill> im gonna save this routine
[15:10:53] <zeeshan-mill> great for diagnosis
[15:11:52] <andypugh> You know you have an eBay problem when things arrive and you have no idea what they are going to be until you open them
[15:11:53] <zeeshan-mill> ok looks like PID component is the pid controller
[15:12:01] <zeeshan-mill> haha
[15:12:03] <zeeshan-mill> what did you order
[15:12:11] <andypugh> Today’s surprise was a packet of gold leaf
[15:12:36] <zeeshan-mill> YAY
[15:12:38] <zeeshan-mill> RELAYS CLICKING
[15:13:31] <furrywolf> andy: it's like just christmas, but all year 'round.
[15:14:08] <_methods> yeah chinese xmas presents all year lol
[15:14:28] <_methods> ooooh a box of led's llol
[15:14:36] <_methods> i don't remember ordering that
[15:14:56] <furrywolf> and, at least for me, I end up buying all my own presents anyway, so it really is just like christmas.
[15:15:18] <andypugh> I thought this was a good price (and I have a clock face to re-gild)
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/331432675691
[15:16:24] <andypugh> furrywolf: I had the opposite problem, I suggested to someone that I could use a new kettle as mine leaks. So for 3 months I had to live with a leaky kettle in case someone bought me one. And they didn’t.
[15:17:53] <furrywolf> "24ct gold. These leaves are not as damageable as pure natural gold" so... their 24kt gold is not pure gold? :P
[15:18:06] <SpeedEvil> Fixing kettles is gneerally doable
[15:18:15] <furrywolf> how the heck does a kettle leak, and why haven't you brazed it yet? heh
[15:18:34] <SpeedEvil> generally because some idiot put a water level indicator on it
[15:19:00] <furrywolf> ok, we have different definitions of "kettle", methinks.
[15:19:47] <furrywolf> a kettle is a vessel for heating water, usually these days made of a single piece of stainless steel.
[15:20:02] <furrywolf> with a welded-on spout
[15:20:28] <furrywolf> old ones could be cast iron or copper...
[15:21:04] <furrywolf> these aren't things that get water level sensors, or tend to leak unless cracked...
[15:21:56] <jdh> I had a kettle that held 15k kgs of polymer
[15:22:06] <SpeedEvil> In the UK, electric kettles are a thing
[15:22:19] <SpeedEvil> this is because the plug can actually do 3kW reasonably
[15:22:45] <jdh> and by "had" I really mean "wrote code for"
[15:23:57] <furrywolf> in the uk, tea is a thing too, which is probably also related.
[15:25:46] <zeeshan-mill> hmm
[15:25:52] <zeeshan-mill> asap i press the trigger button for hydraulic solenoid
[15:25:58] <zeeshan-mill> 7i77 goes in limp mode again
[15:26:11] <zeeshan-mill> halcmd: setp vfd2.run 1
[15:26:11] <zeeshan-mill> halcmd: setp hm2_5i25.0.7i77.0.0.output-00 1
[15:26:15] <andypugh> I resisted buying the WiFi enabled kettle :-)
http://9to5mac.com/2014/08/06/review-ikettle-the-iphone-controlled-kettle-for-gadget-loving-tea-drinkers/
[15:26:26] <zeeshan-mill> basically output 00 latches a relay
[15:26:36] <zeeshan-mill> whos switch is in series with a tool change request button
[15:27:07] <furrywolf> I have a kettle somewhere... it sits on a stove. :P
[15:28:28] <SpeedEvil> furrywolf: I keep meaning to make a solar boiling water dispenser
[15:28:42] <SpeedEvil> http://www.amazon.co.uk/Giant-Action-Airpot-litre-capacity/dp/B001MX9D6G has a heat leak of 4W
[15:28:56] <SpeedEvil> dump heat into this from a panel
[15:29:22] <furrywolf> that requires sun.
[15:29:51] <zeeshan-mill> z brake disable works woohoo
[15:30:01] <andypugh> zeeshan-mill: open a second terminal and tail -f /var/log/kernel.log
[15:32:34] <zeeshan-mill> kern.log?
[15:33:38] <zeeshan-mill> ok
[15:33:44] <zeeshan-mill> asap i press the tool change switch it spits out this:
[15:35:36] <zeeshan-mill> this comp is a bit slow :)
[15:35:52] <zeeshan-mill> http://pastebin.com/Fi3LSRnE
[15:37:21] <PCW> lost 7I77 24V or 5V probably
[15:38:19] <andypugh> Seemslikely that the switch is shorting power to gnd...
[15:39:56] <zeeshan-mill> http://i.imgur.com/Fwg116l.png
[15:40:00] <zeeshan-mill> very first relay
[15:40:03] <zeeshan-mill> h06
[15:40:05] <zeeshan-mill> k06.
[15:40:21] <zeeshan-mill> is it cause i have input 11 chilling there
[15:42:59] <PCW> an input cannot cause a short
[15:43:25] <zeeshan-mill> im looking at my wiring again
[15:44:07] <PCW> maybe diode is backwards on hydraulic solenoid
[15:47:21] <zeeshan-mill> i need to shut down power to this to diagnose
[15:58:27] <furrywolf> you need to power down, I need to power things up... still need to build a box/frame for my power supply.
[16:06:39] <zeeshan> when i probee between K and A
[16:06:42] <zeeshan> as showin in the circuit
[16:06:47] <zeeshan> i get no voltage passing through.
[16:06:58] <zeeshan> when i measure from A to K , i get 0.6 V
[16:07:01] <zeeshan> is that correct?
[16:07:42] <andypugh> The numbers seem right, but I can’t remember which terminal is which.
[16:07:50] <zeeshan> you know what
[16:07:54] <zeeshan> ill try with no diode in there
[16:08:00] <zeeshan> and see if i get same error
[16:17:43] <mrsun> zeeshan: what is that schematic drawn in ?
[16:18:14] <zeeshan-mill> diptrace
[16:18:17] <zeeshan-mill> okay guys
[16:18:24] <zeeshan-mill> i removed the diode. it didnt do anything
[16:18:26] <zeeshan-mill> same error
[16:18:36] <zeeshan-mill> what if the solenoid polarity matters
[16:18:40] <zeeshan-mill> will that cause this issue?
[16:20:25] <PCW> can you run the solenoid directly from the 24V?
[16:20:40] <zeeshan-mill> yea i have tested it before
[16:20:44] <zeeshan-mill> i just swapped polarity
[16:21:38] <zeeshan-mill> oaky
[16:21:40] <zeeshan-mill> that was the problem lol
[16:21:44] <zeeshan-mill> solenoid polarity.
[16:21:56] <PCW> built in diode...
[16:22:00] <zeeshan-mill> really?
[16:22:10] <zeeshan-mill> there was no diode shown in the schematic
[16:23:53] <PCW> must be, wire doesn't have a polarity
[16:23:57] <zeeshan-mill> yea
[16:24:06] <zeeshan-mill> Z brake is being weird now
[16:24:13] <zeeshan-mill> even when the entire system was powered down
[16:24:18] <zeeshan-mill> its fairly easy to rotate
[16:24:28] <furrywolf> easy enough to test... power it up from a current-limited supply, say a suitable light bulb in series with the power, and see if it's normal in one direction and 0.7V in the other direction...
[16:24:31] <zeeshan-mill> before it never used to be like that
[16:24:39] <furrywolf> could also be a melted winding shorted to frame ground
[16:24:40] <zeeshan-mill> furrywolf, im gonna check with multimeter in a sec
[16:25:15] <PCW> Check that 24V is still 24V
[16:25:24] <furrywolf> if it's shorted near one end of the winding, could work when that end is ground, and fail when that end is power.
[16:25:44] <PCW> Brake may be stuck
[16:25:57] <PCW> and need some exercise
[16:27:18] <Deejay> gn8
[16:27:23] <zeeshan-mill> yep 24 v is 24.3 v currently
[16:27:32] <zeeshan-mill> PCW, exercise how?
[16:27:36] <zeeshan-mill> BFH?
[16:27:52] <zeeshan-mill> these 24vdc relays are kinda nice
[16:27:56] <zeeshan-mill> they have lights so you can diagnose
[16:28:03] <zeeshan-mill> didnt even know :)
[16:28:20] <furrywolf> zeeshan: any conductivity between the coil terminals and chasis ground?
[16:28:35] <zeeshan-mill> which coil
[16:28:39] <zeeshan-mill> solenoid or brake
[16:29:20] <furrywolf> the one that causes it to not work if you hook it up the other way around
[16:29:58] <zeeshan-mill> brb gonnacheck
[16:30:59] <bobo_> zeeshan hyd solenoid may have diode on coil terminals, as should the schematis bottom 4 coils
[16:31:09] <furrywolf> as to the brake, as pcw said, exercise it. clicking it on and off a bunch of times is a good start. if that fails, see if it needs BFHing and/or rust removal. (or new friction material, depending on design)
[16:33:23] <furrywolf> bbl, working on cars
[16:34:10] <bobo_> zeeshan vertical axis brake------think of it as being like auto air cond freon pump and pumps on/off electro clutch
[16:36:19] <bobo_> vert axis brake may need clearance re-adjusted
[16:37:48] <zeeshan_> hyd solenoid: 17 ohms in both directions
[16:37:51] <zeeshan_> 0v in both direction
[16:37:57] <zeeshan_> no idea why it is polarity sensitive.
[16:38:12] <zeeshan_> no continuity between coil and chassis
[16:39:00] <bobo_> if you take it apart -----look at carbon brush on motor and tack
[16:39:42] <zeeshan_> hyd solenoid works with diode hooked back up
[16:39:47] <zeeshan_> bobo okay i will
[16:39:49] <zeeshan_> this thing is like 100lb
[16:39:52] <zeeshan_> takes time :)
[16:40:39] <bobo_> can you see hyd sold terminals-----may have sort of a Mov
[16:40:42] <zeeshan_> lubricator works
[16:40:56] <zeeshan_> bobo_ not really
[16:41:02] <zeeshan_> hey it works so let it be :)
[16:41:30] <zeeshan_> ive never taken apart a servo before
[16:41:35] <zeeshan_> is the brake on the side of the tachometer?
[16:41:50] <zeeshan_> or it part of the main housing
[16:42:04] <bobo_> lub is not working untill oil is flowing on shop floor
[16:42:17] <zeeshan_> bobo_, haha
[16:42:23] <zeeshan_> it pissed everywhere
[16:42:40] <zeeshan_> ill look at brake in abit
[16:42:44] <zeeshan_> i wanna move x and y first
[16:42:48] <bobo_> motor --tac---brake
[16:43:08] <zeeshan_> hmm bobo_ my tach is at the very end
[16:44:09] <bobo_> brake end cover on Maho
[16:47:10] <bobo_> if you are running motors then tack polarity must be correct ?
[16:47:29] <zeeshan_> i dont know yet
[16:47:35] <zeeshan_> im gonna put the drives in test mode
[16:47:39] <andypugh> zeeshan: Some servos are ruined by being dismantled, so be careful
[16:47:41] <zeeshan_> and use 7i77 to enable
[16:47:53] <zeeshan_> andypugh, okay
[16:47:58] <andypugh> The poles act as “keepers” for the magnets, they are magetised in-situ
[16:48:17] <andypugh> That may be something from the olden days before rare-earth mangents though.
[16:49:59] <andypugh> I have a nice servo that I want to remove the brake from, because it would be more useful were it shorter
[16:51:09] <bobo_> indramat DC motors with brake ----clean top cover of dirt then carefull remov top
[16:52:01] <bobo_> remov= remove
[16:58:59] <bobo_> PetefromTn: was reading ----
http://www.garagejournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=185104---an thought you might be interested---he later also later on notes
[16:59:41] <bobo_> seiko watch stuff
[17:00:32] <bobo_> that might be something you could do
[17:01:23] <bobo_> in your spare time
[17:01:42] <andypugh> What’s that?
[17:01:48] <andypugh> (Spare time)
[17:02:09] <malcom2073> Yanno... that time when your eyes are closed and you're laying down
[17:02:14] <malcom2073> That's spare, right?
[17:02:26] <bobo_> extra watches/clocks
[17:02:30] <Tom_itx> andypugh it' the time reserved for sleep but you're not using it for that
[17:04:20] <bobo_> acute dream deprivation ====laying down an eyes closed------------ADD
[17:06:02] <bobo_> many school kids seem to have it----so I have been told
[17:06:20] <Tom_L> how far _have_ we come?
http://www.electronicproducts.com/Education/History/10_Old_school_computer_ads_that_prove_just_how_far_tech_has_come.aspx
[17:06:57] <_methods> not far enough i still don't have my damn flying car
[17:09:10] <Tom_itx> 1200 baud modem the size of a desktop pc
[17:10:14] <zeeshan_> do i need pid comp running to enable drive
[17:10:30] <bobo_> methods socker mom's have them
[17:11:11] <_methods> really?
[17:11:32] <andypugh> zeeshan_: No, you can set the analogue outputs directly, but use small numbers so you have time to type in zero to stop it :-)
[17:11:58] <zeeshan_> haha
[17:12:02] <zeeshan_> andypugh, i just need to enable drive
[17:12:08] <zeeshan_> so ic an do velocity tuning
[17:12:18] <zeeshan_> i cant find the pin
[17:12:28] <Tom_itx> zeeshan remember that big red ESTOP button you installed?
[17:12:35] <Tom_itx> now's the time to see if it's wired right
[17:12:36] <zeeshan_> yes Tom_itx
[17:12:37] <zeeshan_> it works!
[17:12:47] <andypugh> hm2_5i25.0.7i77.0.0.analogout.00 ?
[17:13:18] <zeeshan_> andypugh, i was thinking that
[17:13:21] <zeeshan_> but its type float
[17:13:24] <zeeshan_> not bit
[17:13:24] <_methods> just make sure you insert your sphincter stop it reacts faster
[17:13:35] <zeeshan_> motors arent connectedto anything lol
[17:13:35] <andypugh> You can still setp a float
[17:13:46] <zeeshan_> andypugh, yes but its weird that a pin thats 0 and 1 is float
[17:14:18] <andypugh> Eh?
[17:14:22] <zeeshan_> gonna try it anyway
[17:14:22] <zeeshan_> haha
[17:14:29] <andypugh> The analogout is the command voltage to the servo drive
[17:14:34] <zeeshan_> oh
[17:14:43] <zeeshan_> no i dont need that
[17:15:15] <zeeshan_> the drive is in voltage mode
[17:15:23] <zeeshan_> so i can turn a pot and monitor the voltage output
[17:15:27] <zeeshan_> i have a multimeter hooked up
[17:15:35] <zeeshan_> thats the first procedure they list
[17:15:43] <zeeshan_> but i cant enable the drive cause its hooked up to 7i77
[17:16:36] <andypugh> You are in Halcmd?
[17:16:57] <andypugh> show signal *enable*
[17:17:11] <andypugh> _should_ show you where the enable is connected to
[17:17:39] <zeeshan_> ah
[17:17:41] <zeeshan_> its called
[17:17:45] <zeeshan_> loadrt hostmot2
[17:17:45] <zeeshan_> loadrt hm2_pci
[17:17:45] <zeeshan_> loadrt threads
[17:17:46] <zeeshan_> addf hm2_5i25.0.read thread1
[17:17:46] <zeeshan_> addf hm2_5i25.0.write thread1
[17:17:46] <zeeshan_> addf hm2_5i25.0.pet_watchdog thread1
[17:17:50] <zeeshan_> start
[17:17:52] <zeeshan_> er.
[17:17:54] <zeeshan_> hm2_5i25.0.7i77.0.1.analogena
[17:17:55] <andypugh> Then you can delete the signal and set the output pin
[17:17:57] <zeeshan_> it enables everything in 1 go!
[17:18:41] <zeeshan_> im gonna have to disconnect power to other drives manually
[17:18:45] <andypugh> It’s sort-of fun hacking HAL at the command linelike this
[17:19:52] <zeeshan_> haha yea
[17:20:19] <zeeshan_> yep that did it
[17:20:28] <zeeshan_> hm2_5i25.0.7i77.0.1.analogena 1 enables everything
[17:20:34] <zeeshan_> and im GLAD i didnt have the motor hooked up
[17:20:42] <zeeshan_> volt meter saying 145V
[17:20:42] <zeeshan_> hahah
[17:20:48] <PCW> all except channel 5
[17:22:53] <PCW> I _did_ tell you to power down the drives in initial testing.....
[17:23:11] <zeeshan_> pcw i know :)
[17:23:21] <zeeshan_> i removed power to all the drives except what im working on
[17:23:44] <PCW> verifying the encoders is first
[17:23:50] <zeeshan_> does my current limit stuff have to be tuned
[17:24:01] <zeeshan_> before i can perform velocity loop tuning of the drive
[17:24:11] <zeeshan_> PCW, i will hook up encoders when i do position loop tuning
[17:24:24] <zeeshan_> just trying to get vel tuning working first
[17:24:46] <zeeshan_> correct my if im wrong, but if vel tuning is completely wacky, then pos tuning will be impossible to do?
[17:24:59] <PCW> Yes
[17:25:26] <PCW> well not impossible but hard to do well
[17:25:36] <zeeshan_> also when analogout 01 is 0 for example
[17:25:54] <zeeshan_> er dubm question .. ignore this one
[17:25:55] <zeeshan_> :)
[17:26:43] <PCW> if you simply enable the drives (analog out set to 0 or just unplugged) they should hold position (and likely creep slowly)
[17:27:08] <zeeshan_> okay
[17:27:22] <PCW> that is, they should resist changes in velocity
[17:28:06] <zeeshan_> okay wtf.
[17:28:14] <PCW> if they instantly run away (perhaps after a tiny push) the tachometer is backwards
[17:28:15] <bobo_> current limit may affect motor magnets if too high
[17:28:23] <zeeshan_> i followed this procedure of offsetting so motor outputs voltmeter measures 0 v at motor terminals
[17:28:28] <zeeshan_> i plug in motor
[17:28:31] <zeeshan_> and it runs like crazy
[17:29:03] <PCW> tachometer backwards maybe
[17:29:30] <zeeshan_> but i dont even have it in tachometer mode
[17:29:40] <zeeshan_> i have it in open loop voltage mode
[17:30:30] <PCW> the drive supports a plain voltage mode?
[17:31:02] <zeeshan_> it said "Set the drive in open loop mode"
[17:31:10] <zeeshan_> which means setting the mode to "duty cycle"
[17:31:13] <PCW> if in this mode you _must_ disconnect the tachometer
[17:31:18] <zeeshan_> OH
[17:31:30] <zeeshan_> whoops.
[17:32:58] <zeeshan_> haha that was it.
[17:33:07] <PCW> most analog drives are like this Iout = SS(tach+AIN)
[17:33:27] <PCW> where S is a lazy integral sign
[17:34:38] <andypugh> PCW: It has only just occurred to me to wonder this. Do you have a CNC machine of your own?
[17:35:01] <PCW> voltage mode probably removes the integrators but the out is still the sum of the analog input and the tachometer
[17:35:27] <PCW> No (well a tiny toy made from a wafer aligner)
[17:39:07] <zeeshan_> pcw okay
[17:39:16] <zeeshan_> i set it back in tachometer mode
[17:39:25] <zeeshan_> and hooked up the motor and tacho. and it doesnt seem to be moving
[17:39:36] <zeeshan_> this means tachometer polarity is good?
[17:40:44] <andypugh> if you setp the analogout you should be able to make it move in any direction at a range of speeds
[17:41:10] <zeeshan_> okay
[17:41:14] <zeeshan_> i blew a fuse :/
[17:41:35] <zeeshan_> brb
[17:53:18] <zeeshan_> if i had connected these motors to the machine
[17:53:22] <zeeshan_> i woulda crashed it like 10 times
[17:53:45] <zeeshan_> i set the drive to tachometer mode. enabled drive and it runs away
[17:54:04] <zeeshan_> Velocity feedback polarity. Changes the polarity of the internal
[17:54:04] <zeeshan_> feedback signal and the velocity monitor output signal. Inversion
[17:54:04] <zeeshan_> of the feedback polarity may be required to prevent a motor run-
[17:54:04] <zeeshan_> away condition.
[17:54:27] <zeeshan_> i flipped that switch
[17:54:40] <zeeshan_> still running away
[17:54:48] <andypugh> In the same direction?
[17:55:07] <andypugh> The command voltage is definitely zero?
[17:55:46] <zeeshan_> yea hal shows 0 output analog01
[17:56:08] <zeeshan_> i didnt check direction
[17:56:11] <zeeshan_> lemme check that now
[17:57:01] <roycroft> have any of you used the harbor freight end mills?
[17:57:20] <roycroft> i broke a 5/8" one and the only local machinset supplier wants $68 for an import
[17:57:28] <zeeshan_> yes andypugh in same direction
[17:57:29] <roycroft> i can get the 20 piece hf set for $64
[17:57:35] <zeeshan_> even after flipping that switch
[17:57:56] <_methods> carbide?
[17:57:59] <_methods> or hss?
[17:58:02] <roycroft> hss
[17:58:12] <roycroft> i can get an import from enco for about $20
[17:58:15] <roycroft> but i need one rigth now
[17:58:25] <PetefromTn_> got a fastenal nearby?
[17:58:27] <roycroft> no
[17:58:38] <roycroft> there's just one shop in town for tooling
[17:58:40] <andypugh> zeeshan_: While it is running away, does it respond to an analogue output/
[17:58:45] <roycroft> and besides their prices they are jerks
[17:58:46] <_methods> that sux
[17:58:56] <PetefromTn_> who?
[17:59:02] <roycroft> it's not a chain
[17:59:03] <_methods> you don't have any local distributors?
[17:59:08] <roycroft> western machine supply
[17:59:08] <Tom_itx> roycroft, they know they're the only one...
[17:59:14] <_methods> grainger?
[17:59:22] <roycroft> i once bought a 4" machinist's vise from them for about $120
[17:59:31] <roycroft> when i brought it home i discovered a big crack in the casting
[17:59:53] <roycroft> i brought it back and they said "no returns on chinese stuff - you get what you pay for with that junk"
[18:00:05] <roycroft> i actually haven't been there since
[18:00:13] <roycroft> grainger and i don't get along
[18:00:19] <roycroft> they refuse to set up an account for me
[18:00:28] <roycroft> because i refuse to give them a state tax id number
[18:00:31] <roycroft> because i don't have one
[18:00:31] <zeeshan_> andypugh, did not try that
[18:00:41] <roycroft> because my state does not issue them
[18:00:44] <_methods> no local machine shops?
[18:00:46] <roycroft> federal tax id does not count
[18:00:47] <_methods> they might let you buy one
[18:00:49] <Rab> roycroft, the HF end mills I've seen in person have been horrifying. Like, visibly bad finish. They might work for wood but I wouldn't expect anything more.
[18:00:50] <roycroft> they want the state thing
[18:00:56] <roycroft> hmm
[18:01:03] <andypugh> roycroft: You could lie
[18:01:12] <_methods> hell they might even give you one if you bring a 12 pack
[18:01:25] <roycroft> oregon does not have state tax id numbers because we don't have sales tax
[18:01:47] <andypugh> <non-sequiter>
[18:02:02] <roycroft> i tried explaining this to grainger, and gave them my federal tax id number, but they rejected it and said i need the state number to prove i'm exempt from sales tax, which does not exist
[18:02:10] <roycroft> i've tried this serveral times over the years
[18:02:19] <Rab> roycroft, tried going in person?
[18:02:23] <roycroft> there is a grainger here, but i don't know how people buy from them
[18:02:38] <roycroft> no, i actually haven't
[18:02:38] <_methods> i just walk in
[18:02:39] <Rab> Grainger sells to the general public. You can walk in with cash.
[18:02:40] <_methods> and pay cash lol
[18:02:42] <roycroft> the local folks may have a clue
[18:02:56] <zeeshan_> okay that switch didnt do anything
[18:03:02] <zeeshan_> i had to physically turn the switch myself.
[18:03:09] <zeeshan_> now when i enable, it slowly is drifting
[18:03:26] <Rab> I don't know if you can order from the website without an account, but you can place a phone order as an individual.
[18:03:54] <roycroft> $47.55 on the grainger website
[18:04:01] <zeeshan_> andypugh, it responds!
[18:04:04] <roycroft> not quite $60, but certainly not enco prices
[18:04:06] <_methods> yeah grainger is last resort
[18:04:10] <zeeshan_> when i tell it analog01 = 1.25
[18:04:13] <zeeshan_> it stops drifting
[18:04:20] <_methods> i try not to buy anything from grainger unless i have to
[18:04:22] <bobo_> zeeshan is tach really outputting a voltage on a meter ?
[18:04:24] <zeeshan_> since its drifting, this means i need to do velocity tuning?
[18:04:31] <zeeshan_> bobo it was earlier
[18:04:35] <zeeshan_> when you spin the motor
[18:04:35] <Rab> Just a warning, Grainger often doesn't seem to have a good inventory on hand. So while they can ship pretty quickly from another store or warehouse, they might not have machine tooling you can walk out with. Better off calling first.
[18:04:44] <roycroft> well 1/2" end mill and boring bar may do the trick
[18:04:50] <andypugh> You might want to set output to zero then tweak the pot again. Though your earlier test should ahve done that.
[18:04:52] <roycroft> but that's a lot more machining
[18:05:02] <_methods> i'd try hitting a local machine shop
[18:05:05] <zeeshan_> andypugh, that was just offset
[18:05:11] <_methods> that's a common size end mill
[18:05:12] <roycroft> yeah, i might do that - there are a few nearby
[18:05:13] <zeeshan_> and i did do it earlier
[18:05:18] <andypugh> Isn’t that the same thing?
[18:05:20] <zeeshan_> to stop it from rotating. but that was in open loop mode.
[18:05:25] <zeeshan_> now its in closedloop mode
[18:05:33] <zeeshan_> so there might be some silly gain thats setup somewhere
[18:05:38] <andypugh> I am only geussing what adjustments you have
[18:05:41] <zeeshan_> throwing it off
[18:05:46] <zeeshan_> andypugh, have you used amc drives?
[18:05:48] <zeeshan_> its whati have
[18:05:55] <Rab> _methods, or maybe even an engine rebuilding shop. 12-pack might be a good approach there.
[18:06:03] <andypugh> No. I have only ever used Mesa drives.
[18:06:07] <_methods> yeah either one a 12pack will get you far lol
[18:06:30] <_methods> i know if you show up to my shop with doughnuts or beer your odds of assistance increase dramatically
[18:06:36] <zeeshan_> ah okay
[18:06:46] <zeeshan_> i think im at a point wherei can set the true current limits for the servo
[18:06:55] <zeeshan_> and ill follow the procedure in the manual
[18:08:57] <zeeshan_> this servo stuff is a lot more complex :/
[18:09:16] <Tom_itx> heh
[18:10:18] <zeeshan_> need to eat. will tune after :P
[18:11:00] <PCW> but luckily most servo systems are very similar so once you get familiar they are almost all pretty much the same
[18:12:09] <JT-Shop> first burn
http://imagebin.ca/v/1oAWizKcJBMV
[18:12:41] <_methods> adding oxy?
[18:12:43] <PCW> Looks good! for casting?
[18:13:06] <JT-Shop> yea, working out the details for the burner
[18:13:16] <_methods> nice
[18:13:20] <JT-Shop> thanks
[18:13:35] <JT-Shop> was a ceiling fan hanger tube lol
[18:14:04] <Rab> heh
[18:14:12] <Rab> I'm guessing it's brass-covered steel?
[18:14:34] <andypugh> Wouldn’t Tantalum be better?
[18:14:44] <Rab> s/covered/colored
[18:15:24] <andypugh> I can’t decide between making some parts I am making by machining from solid, or learning to cast brass.
[18:15:41] <andypugh> As I only need two, i am tending towards machining.
[18:15:41] <Rab> Ceiling fan downrods seem to be polished plumbing pipe, from what I've seen.
[18:15:45] <roycroft> yay
[18:15:55] <roycroft> a local machine shop is willing to sell me one for $36
[18:16:07] <Rab> Nice!
[18:16:09] <roycroft> yes
[18:16:18] <roycroft> i need to stock spares though
[18:16:20] <andypugh> A what?
[18:16:25] <roycroft> this was almost an unhappy moment
[18:16:30] <JT-Shop> that's what I'm heading for casting yellow brass
[18:16:32] <roycroft> 5/8" two flute m2 end mill
[18:16:46] <andypugh> I buy used ones from eBay.
[18:16:51] <roycroft> i broke one
[18:16:55] <roycroft> i need it replaced now
[18:17:00] <roycroft> as in i'm walking out the door
[18:17:02] <roycroft> ciaoder!
[18:17:08] <_methods> good luck
[18:20:20] <andypugh> eeeew!
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Straight-Shank-2-Flutes-End-Mill-Milling-Cutter-5mm-x-5mm-x-15mm-x-40mm-5pcs-/121260862810
[18:21:02] <_methods> lol
[18:21:06] <_methods> those look kinda rough
[18:26:06] <bobo_> really not too bad for a childs first attempt dont think I could do as well with just a file
[18:26:21] <_methods> that was one angry child
[18:28:58] <Tom_itx> you don't like the micro grind on those?
[18:29:21] <bobo_> mom said they had to make 5good ones before going outside to play with the honey dippers
[18:36:45] <andypugh> bobo_: So they didn’t get to play?
[18:38:58] <bobo_> poor kids
[18:41:12] <roycroft> success!
[18:41:28] <_methods> damn that was fast
[18:41:35] <_methods> you live in a damn industrial park lol
[18:41:41] <roycroft> and when they determined that i'm not competing with them they offered to tack things for me on their orders once in a while
[18:41:47] <roycroft> i live close to the industrial area
[18:41:56] <_methods> yeah i told you bring some beer and doughnuts
[18:41:57] <roycroft> it was 5 minutes away
[18:41:59] <andypugh> roycroft: Did you see the quality items I found on eBay?
[18:42:03] <_methods> they'll hook you up
[18:42:08] <_methods> with material too
[18:42:11] <roycroft> no, i was busy buying an end mill :)
[18:42:18] <roycroft> yeah, i'll be bringing them homebrew
[18:42:29] <_methods> nice
[18:42:30] <roycroft> they thought it was really cool that i make brewing equipment
[18:42:35] <_methods> that will score you big points lol
[18:42:48] <_methods> yeah man your work is awesome they will appreciate that
[18:43:18] <roycroft> off to the shop now
[18:43:35] <roycroft> i'm making some mounting brackets for my plumbing that are adjustable in all 3 planes
[18:43:59] <jthornton> earthquake zone?
[18:44:08] <roycroft> which is probably not necessary, but will make it easier to assemble/disassemble things, and do adds/moves/changes
[18:44:26] <roycroft> no, but i don't want the weight of the plumbing and pumps hanging off the vessels
[18:44:27] <Rab> andypugh, that's the kind of stuff Harbor Freight offers here, although it has a (fake?) TiN coating.
[18:44:29] <roycroft> it's stressing the welds
[18:44:42] <roycroft> plus, i want to be able to remove the vessels for cleaning without having to disassemble the plumbing
[18:45:14] <roycroft> anyway, off to the shop with end mill in one hand and a pint of homebrew in the other
[18:45:19] <roycroft> a dangerous combination, but fun :)
[18:45:28] <Tom_itx> don't drop either one on the way
[18:54:44] <bobo_> andypugh: wondered if you have seen the Y-Tube gear cutting by Nick Mueller ?
[18:55:30] <andypugh> With the big fly-cutter?
[18:55:46] <bobo_> the disk
[18:56:10] <bobo_> it is a later one
[18:58:12] <andypugh> Ah, yes, huge scary thing?
[18:59:45] <bobo_> the disk is of course round but has flat edge for (dedemdum ?) root of gear
[19:03:57] <bobo_> big scary thing (lath plate ) is first --- needed form cutter actualy of rack form profile
[19:04:31] <andypugh> I was looking at a Eureka relieving device on eBay. Almost tempted
[19:05:06] <andypugh> http://youtu.be/U_kqi3dqr50
[19:07:25] <_methods> that is cool as hell
[19:07:32] <_methods> no idea wtf you use it for
[19:07:52] <andypugh> It is for making involute (formed) gear gutters
[19:08:04] <malcom2073> OK, I thought something totally different when you said relieving device
[19:08:10] <_methods> yeah i stay out of gears
[19:08:11] <andypugh> Or anything else where you need multiple teeth and a relief.
[19:08:12] <bobo_> the last one I was (Muller ) small disk ---mayby 4 inches O.D. and It seemed to me it was again a rack profile
[19:08:44] <andypugh> Yes, gear cutters to _generate_ the tooth profile are rack-form
[19:09:06] <malcom2073> I'm confused, what is that cutter cutting? The inside of the tooth?
[19:09:16] <andypugh> I quite fancy the challenge of making my own gear hobs.
[19:09:47] <_methods> yeah if i was retired i'd love to hang out and make gears all day
[19:10:18] <bobo_> but Muller doesent have but stright side cutter
[19:10:19] <andypugh> malcom2073: In the Eureka video? It is just making what would be a simple slot cutter. To make a gear cutter you would use a formed tool ground to the desired gear tooth profile.
[19:10:33] <malcom2073> hmmm
[19:10:54] <malcom2073> gears mystify me
[19:11:06] <andypugh> The cutting edges are already cut, that process is relieving the cutter behind each cutting edge
[19:11:18] <malcom2073> Ahh gotcha
[19:12:17] <andypugh> Gears are moderately easy to understand. I highly recommend:
http://www.amazon.co.uk/Gears-Gear-Cutting-Workshop-Practice/dp/0852429118
[19:12:46] <malcom2073> woah woah woah, I think I need to get my mill HOME first, then running, before I get into that sort of madness :P
[19:13:14] <andypugh> malcom2073: Have you seen my gear hobbing video? Mini-mill + LinuxCNC
[19:13:27] <_methods> gears are what you start making when your wife leaves you
[19:13:38] <malcom2073> _methods: when, or just before?
[19:13:45] <malcom2073> And no andypugh, I've not seen it
[19:13:46] <malcom2073> link?
[19:13:50] <_methods> hehe
[19:14:22] <andypugh> malcom2073:
http://youtu.be/ZhICrb0Tbn4
[19:15:06] <bobo_> Mueller uses osculation ? of blank to effect the profile
[19:15:56] <andypugh> bobo_: It is a very similar process. The helix of a hob does pretty much the same thing.
[19:16:02] <malcom2073> That's slick andypugh!
[19:16:22] <bobo_> thus not needing many cutters
[19:16:44] <_methods> yeah awesome
[19:16:45] <Rab> bobo_, oscillation. Osculation is something entirely different.
[19:16:49] <andypugh> You can also do it with a shaper and a single point rack-form cutter. You just need to rotate the blank as you move it left and right.
[19:16:59] <andypugh> Osculation is perhaps more fun
[19:17:16] <_methods> i've only ever cut gears on horizontal with gear cutters and super spacer
[19:17:25] <_methods> and that was simple spur gear
[19:17:34] <malcom2073> I picked up an old Clausing/Kondia, after I put linuxcnc back on it (the guy had EMC with a servo2go card on it back in the day), I'm gonna stick a 4th axis on it that can do that sort of stuff
[19:18:09] <andypugh> bobo_: nice animation of how you would do it ona shaper:
http://youtu.be/W69m2cDaqvY
[19:18:24] <andypugh> It also makes the process that is happening with a hob very clear.
[19:18:38] <bobo_> Muellers linuxcnc screen is strange
[19:20:01] <bobo_> Rab: thanks
[19:24:14] <bobo_> To me the hobs are expensive And Mueller seemed to have a way to cut a gear profile easly by useing linuxcnc and yes a 4th axis
[19:25:34] <PetefromTn_> who's Mueller? Meuller? Bueller? heh
[19:27:58] <PCW> this guy:
[19:28:00] <PCW> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h1Xs6Exx3XQ
[19:28:56] <andypugh> hobs come up for reasonable money on eBay from time to time.
[19:29:00] <PetefromTn_> TY
[19:31:05] <bobo_> andypugh:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h1Xs6Exx3XQ I think this is the one I am yamering about
[19:31:31] <malcom2073> Lol
[19:31:36] <malcom2073> "and what's it for? a tiny crankshaft!"
[19:31:39] <PetefromTn_> man that is some complex setup.... cool gear tho. My VMC can't tilt its head so the whole setup would need to be adjusted along with the fourth axis which I don't yet have so I am screwed on making one LOL
[19:32:31] <andypugh> Anyway, I should be asleep.
[19:32:47] <bobo_> Pete just need vertical 4 th axis
[19:33:14] <PetefromTn_> you mean an angled off vertical?
[19:34:06] <bobo_> ever what angle needed
[19:35:27] <bobo_> but yes adj vertical head would be easer
[19:35:33] <PetefromTn_> I can't wait to play with fourth axis stuff right now I just have this little 5C collet spin indexer so it is kinda limited
[19:36:18] <bobo_> not with your ability
[19:36:48] <PetefromTn_> LOL
[19:36:56] <roycroft> do you think i can get a few dozen more cuts before this gear fails completely:
[19:36:59] <roycroft> http://www.roycroft.us/7x12Gear.jpeg
[19:37:07] <PetefromTn_> I did enjoy rigid tapping those standoffs that was kinda cool...
[19:37:27] <roycroft> i'll order another of course
[19:37:30] <roycroft> but it might take a while to get here
[19:37:42] <PetefromTn_> run it til' it smokes LOL
[19:37:47] <roycroft> um
[19:37:50] <roycroft> it was already smoking :)
[19:37:57] <PetefromTn_> Doh!
[19:38:15] <roycroft> i'll clean out the brass flakes a little better and put some fresh oil in it
[19:38:39] <bobo_> Pete did you see the garagr journal ref thing ?
[19:38:53] <roycroft> there were almost more brass flakes than solid brass it seemed
[19:38:59] <roycroft> i've cleaned about 95% of them out already
[19:39:06] <PetefromTn_> no ?
[19:40:08] <bobo_> Petefrom Ten:
http://www.garagejournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=185104
[19:40:33] <malcom2073> Holy crap, I just watched a video of him scraping a dovetail....
[19:40:41] <malcom2073> You machinest people are crazy :/
[19:41:07] <PetefromTn_> is that you Bobo?
[19:43:48] <bobo_> Pete was thinking there are many items in that garage journal thing that you could design -machine- sell
[19:44:33] <PetefromTn_> Oh yeah? It looks like the link is a thread about a guy moving his Motorcyle business from NYC to a home in Portland?
[19:44:46] <zeeshan> that cant be bobo!
[19:44:50] <zeeshan> hes supposed to be old :P
[19:44:51] <roycroft> i wonder if the worm gear for a grizzly will work
[19:44:59] <roycroft> it would likely be better quality and i would get it sooner
[19:45:48] <roycroft> and it might even cost less
[19:45:57] <bobo_> old and burnt out
[19:46:17] <PetefromTn_> Oh it's getting better I just saw a Ducati 900
[19:47:09] <roycroft> it's the same part number at grizzly as at hf
[19:47:14] <roycroft> except the grizzly is version 2
[19:47:23] <bobo_> Pete check out the seko watch part
[19:47:29] <PetefromTn_> Was just offered a sweet little Yamaha sportbike basket case for super cheap.... but there is a problem with the title...
[19:47:30] <roycroft> but the worm drive shaft is the same part number at both places too
[19:47:41] <roycroft> so i'm going to assume grizzly have an improved version
[19:48:10] <PetefromTn_> seko>
[19:48:17] <PetefromTn_> is it in that same thread?
[19:48:23] <bobo_> yes
[19:48:42] <PetefromTn_> got a page number there is like 65 pages?
[19:49:19] <PetefromTn_> Can't search without being a registered user..
[19:49:19] <zeeshan> bobo_: seriously how old are you
[19:49:23] <roycroft> the new grizzly part is steel
[19:49:32] <roycroft> i think i like that
[19:49:56] <PetefromTn_> He's so OLD he has to carry a shovel strapped to his back so when he keels over folks can just dig a hole..LOL
[19:50:08] <bobo_> you are kidding . it is a good day if i know my phone #
[19:50:35] <PetefromTn_> hell I don't even know that..
[19:52:05] <bobo_> page # try around #40
[19:52:16] <zeeshan> old is relative
[19:52:44] <roycroft> relatives do tend to be old
[19:53:00] <roycroft> relatively speaking
[19:53:01] <zeeshan> 40 isnt old at all
[19:53:01] <zeeshan> lol
[19:54:27] <bobo_> try flat tracking when you get to 40
[19:55:07] <Tom_itx> you know you're getting old when your friends start dying
[19:56:12] <Tom_itx> when they're all gone... count them as bonus years
[19:56:29] <PetefromTn_> jeez man that's depressing
[19:56:34] <Tom_itx> haha
[19:57:42] <malcom2073> Watching hand scraping videos makes me not want to make my own linear rail based router anymore
[19:58:09] <_methods> scraping is a tedious process
[19:58:47] <PetefromTn_> screw that noise... WAY too much work heh
[19:59:01] <_methods> yeah
[19:59:20] <bobo_> malcom the journey is the good part
[19:59:38] <malcom2073> I'm really getting to the point of, does it really matter that much? Maybe I can just bolt them up, fiddle with alignment and be ok? lol
[20:00:34] <PetefromTn_> Looks like two guys free climbed El Capitan in Yosemite.... NUTZ!
[20:02:19] <zeeshan> FU SERVOS
[20:02:48] <zeeshan> where is ssi
[20:02:49] <zeeshan> :(
[20:03:59] <bobo_> free climbing nutz -----------how about that 007 movie with the chase up a crane !
[20:07:12] <bobo_> zeeshan what is this fu servo stuff ----you have a bad dinner? get them sorted out
[20:07:18] <zeeshan> haha
[20:07:20] <zeeshan> im reading through this manual
[20:07:23] <zeeshan> its giving my a headache
[20:08:03] <malcom2073> servos shmervos
[20:08:17] <zeeshan> current loop is different from velocity loop?
[20:09:07] <bobo_> yes it is -----as I have been told
[20:13:48] <PetefromTn_> SERVOS ROCK!! hehe
[20:18:17] <zeeshan> can you run halscope
[20:18:19] <zeeshan> after halrun
[20:18:50] <zeeshan> nm you can
[20:21:17] <bobo_> Pete how about heading north and help that Zee person with the servo thing ? drop off your heater at Mr conners frozen black holding tank -and also take about 100 foot 4/4 so cable for the person up the street from Mr Zee ?
[20:21:54] <zeeshan> bobo_: come help me!
[20:22:51] <zeeshan> Apply power to the drive. Use a bus voltage that is approximate to the desired application voltage or the current loop compensation will not be correct.
[20:22:52] <bobo_> Pete sounds like a better man for the job
[20:23:02] <zeeshan> ... how am i supposed to change the bus voltage..
[20:23:05] <zeeshan> it has a built in power supply lol
[20:24:04] <Tom_itx> would you do better without a manual?
[20:24:12] <zeeshan> probably
[20:24:25] <zeeshan> i dont even kjnow how i will monitor the current loop
[20:24:27] <zeeshan> in hal.
[20:24:59] <zeeshan> i need an oscilloscope for this?
[20:25:17] <Tom_itx> halscope won't do it?
[20:25:30] <zeeshan> i think it will work for position
[20:25:36] <zeeshan> but i dont see how it will work for velocity tuning
[20:25:44] <zeeshan> er current loop tuning
[20:26:13] <bobo_> Zeeshan I thought you needed velocity mode ?
[20:26:17] <zeeshan> bobo_: i do
[20:26:22] <zeeshan> but this manual is telling me this:
[20:26:37] <zeeshan> Since most ADVANCED Motion Controls servo drives close the current loop internally, poor current loop tuning cannot be corrected with tuning from an external controller. Only after the current loop tuning is complete can optimal performance be achieved with the velocity and position loops.
[20:27:00] <PetefromTn_> naah man I am no servo expert just a fan LOL
[20:29:04] <bobo_> but but how about Mr Conners frozen tank ?
[20:29:37] <PetefromTn_> Connor has a frozen tank?
[20:30:21] <bobo_> can you say black water RV tank
[20:30:32] <PetefromTn_> my damn forced air heater died recently and I am having to use my non forced air kerosene emergency heater in the shop to get it warmed up. Takes considerably longer now and I then switch to the AC heater
[20:30:54] <Tom_itx> never got that fixed?
[20:30:58] <PetefromTn_> no
[20:31:04] <PetefromTn_> unfortunately not
[20:31:12] <PetefromTn_> I would LOVE to have it working agian.
[20:31:13] <PetefromTn_> again
[20:31:36] <PetefromTn_> I tried to do some reflowing of the solder joints and visual inspections etc but no dice...
[20:32:21] <PetefromTn_> a new board is like$70.00 plus shipping and I am hating having to spend that since the whole heater is like $298.00 or so..
[20:32:25] <bobo_> offer to drive the RV to florida ----just for un freezing it
[20:32:29] <XXCoder> chips let out magic smoke?
[20:37:11] <zeeshan> ssi told me
[20:37:14] <zeeshan> f this manual pretty much
[20:37:24] <zeeshan> 1. tune loop gain till motor oscillates, back off like 1 turn
[20:37:30] <zeeshan> 2. change offset till no drift happens.
[20:37:32] <zeeshan> done
[20:38:09] <Tom_itx> so what you waitin for?
[20:38:13] <bobo_> PetefromTn: hay Pete be carefull with non vented heaters that pretend stroke stuff may have been a wake up call
[20:39:37] <PetefromTn_> sure
[20:40:03] <PetefromTn_> like I said It is only used to knock off the chill in the morning. most of that time I am not even out there...
[20:41:20] <PetefromTn_> the spell I had was vertigo brought on by a mild flu
[20:58:53] <bobo_> PetefromTn: that garage journal thing had some very high dollar wood working tools . was thinking you could come up with similar stuff
[20:59:57] <PetefromTn_> hm open to any suggestions... Right now I am working on a bid for 200 little clamp parts for a previous customer. They are kinda simple yet not easy to machine due to their thin profile
[21:00:28] <Tom_itx> stack em?
[21:00:29] <PetefromTn_> Oh and have you heard the joke that ends with " Death by Bobo"?
[21:01:30] <PetefromTn_> actually what I meant was thin wall on the radius around the edge of the clamp and they need to be machined from both sides. Not sure the cost will be inline with their desires. I will just give my best quote and hope for the best.
[21:01:52] <PetefromTn_> Gotta machine the second side of a custom rail right now Be back in a bit.
[21:02:29] <bobo_> bobo is a joke who does not talk to himself ----yet . So no
[21:02:38] <zeeshan_> ssi was right
[21:02:45] <zeeshan_> anyone know how much drift is acceptable
[21:02:49] <zeeshan_> for vel tuning
[21:04:25] <furrywolf> it's ok to talk to yourself... you don't have to worry until you start arguing back.
[21:05:05] <bobo_> zeeshan : drift to me = motor hammering on the screw when the axis is stopped. not good
[21:06:30] <zeeshan_> lol
[21:06:39] <zeeshan_> well its impossible to stop it from moving
[21:07:06] <bobo_> furrywolf: the voices don't let git in the conv
[21:07:07] <zeeshan_> its doing like 180 degrees every 8 min?
[21:07:22] <zeeshan_> maybe less
[21:11:52] <bobo_> zeeshan could it the same results on another axis motor . mayby that driver has something up
[21:12:37] <zeeshan_> nahh its doing for all
[21:12:38] <zeeshan_> remember
[21:12:40] <zeeshan_> this velocity loop only
[21:12:42] <zeeshan_> not position
[21:13:13] <bobo_> are the drivers still in some test mode
[21:13:13] <furrywolf> noise in your tach loops?
[21:14:18] <furrywolf> are your tach wires shielded? do they run parallel to any power wires?
[21:15:28] <XXCoder> or parrel with any cathode lights
[21:18:33] <skunkworks> zeeshan:_ that seems more than acceptable...
[21:18:46] <pcw_home> drift is expected and OK
[21:19:09] <zeeshan_> okay thank you
[21:19:45] <furrywolf> oh, 1/16rpm? that seems... not that high. lol
[21:21:40] <pcw_home> even 1RPM is not a big deal
[21:21:53] <zeeshan_> okay
[21:21:56] <zeeshan_> i dont need to get perfect on this then
[21:22:01] <bobo_> seems high to me if the axis is stoped for say drilling a hole
[21:22:05] <zeeshan_> x and y is done
[21:22:09] <zeeshan_> bobo_, this vel tuning
[21:22:15] <zeeshan_> pos tuning will make it not drift
[21:22:18] <zeeshan_> i think. :)
[21:22:24] <pcw_home> Yes
[21:22:27] <furrywolf> bobo: it'll stop once the encoder loop is working.
[21:22:30] <The_Ball> the mailman delivered a xhc-hb04 today, and LinuxCNC already had an example sim config for it, fantastic!
[21:22:43] <zeeshan_> okay Z is left now.
[21:22:46] <zeeshan_> scary Z.
[21:23:08] * furrywolf is too exhausted to work on mill conversion, and is reading instead
[21:23:22] <zeeshan_> for position loop tuning
[21:23:28] <zeeshan_> do you keep the servo decoupled?
[21:23:31] <SpeedEvil> furrywolf: reading what?
[21:23:37] <SpeedEvil> Or do you mean IRC
[21:23:37] <pcw_home> and consider that a 1 RPM error at for 1 MS is probably about 2 uinch
[21:24:11] <pcw_home> you really need the load for tuning
[21:24:25] <furrywolf> speedevil: a blog comment thread on how stupid survival TV is, IRC, the local news, and Ignition!.
[21:24:35] <pcw_home> next you need to check your encoders
[21:24:45] <zeeshan_> will it run away if the encoders are messed up
[21:24:57] <pcw_home> It can yes
[21:24:58] <zeeshan_> can you please advise how
[21:24:59] <furrywolf> possibly
[21:25:01] <zeeshan_> to check
[21:26:29] <bobo_> a minute to get my seat belt on please
[21:26:56] <pcw_home> if you know which way the motor turns with which polarity input, you can do an open loop test
[21:27:20] <PetefromTn_> Okay second side done..
[21:27:32] <PetefromTn_> now gotta cut the PIcatinny rails and dovetails.
[21:28:00] <zeeshan_> pcw_home, i can check by command a +v on analog pin
[21:28:11] <zeeshan_> if it goes clockwise, it is correct direction?
[21:28:13] <PetefromTn_> wish me luck guys..
[21:28:20] <zeeshan_> good luck pete!
[21:28:30] <PetefromTn_> I contacted a local fellow who put a BUNCH of 3 phase motors on Craigslit
[21:28:36] <bobo_> luck
[21:28:41] <PetefromTn_> and he said some are 7.5hp
[21:28:57] <PetefromTn_> hopefully one of them will be the 1725 RPM or so I need and fit inside the lathe.
[21:29:09] <PetefromTn_> and I can offer him a song and dance for it hehe
[21:29:11] <furrywolf> we're going to be building a flywheel spacer for an engine, to move the flywheel a half inch back from crank... going to need some pretty tight tolerances on it. probably end up doing it somewhere else, as my machine isn't functional.
[21:29:45] <zeeshan_> holy cow my Z axis motor ran away
[21:29:45] <zeeshan_> hehe
[21:29:47] <XXCoder> powered by just flywheel? ;)
[21:29:49] <zeeshan_> whoops.
[21:29:52] <PetefromTn_> oh and thanks guys LOL
[21:29:56] <pcw_home> 1. disable drives (disconnect from power)
[21:29:58] <pcw_home> 2. use closed loop linuxcnc configuration
[21:29:59] <pcw_home> 3. turn motor shaft, out put voltage from 7I77 analog out
[21:30:01] <pcw_home> should be in the direction that opposes motion
[21:30:10] <PetefromTn_> zeeshan I recommend you do prelim tuning with motors decoupled..
[21:31:28] <furrywolf> fixing an old car with a no-longer-available engine, putting a newer engine in... need to make a bellhousing adapter and a flywheel adapter.
[21:32:09] <PetefromTn_> if you are making a bellhousing adapter why would you need also a flywheel adapter? can't you kill two birds?
[21:32:38] <furrywolf> pete: the transmission input is going to end up too far back from the crank.
[21:32:46] <PetefromTn_> ah
[21:32:55] <furrywolf> so moving the flywheel out a bit
[21:32:56] <bobo_> what old car nash?
[21:32:58] <PetefromTn_> I am slowly working on something like that for a local customr
[21:33:28] <PetefromTn_> whilst they save their pennies for the actual material and machining hehe
[21:33:29] <furrywolf> no, '70s subaru... and the '70s subaru motor is unobtainable, while the '80s motors are easy to get.
[21:33:47] <XXCoder> salricage! :P
[21:34:04] <PetefromTn_> salricage?
[21:34:10] <XXCoder> cant spell that word
[21:34:16] <PetefromTn_> ;)
[21:34:20] <furrywolf> the original motor is the most destroyed motor I've ever seen that has no actually broken parts.
[21:34:52] <furrywolf> it was towed behing an RV from somewhere in oregon to somewhere in california... with the tranny still in reverse after aligning the towbar.
[21:34:53] <XXCoder> really?
[21:35:01] <XXCoder> ow
[21:35:13] <furrywolf> tranny, amazingly, still feels good.
[21:35:37] <bobo_> 70s is not old nash lik mom drove into reo school bus would be old
[21:35:59] <PetefromTn_> hell my Bronco is OLD...
[21:36:05] <PetefromTn_> and it's a 93
[21:36:10] <furrywolf> all the bearings are gone, crank and rods both scored, the valves have been hammered into cups from smashing into the seats instead of gently closing, and two of the pistons have cracked ring lands.
[21:36:10] <PetefromTn_> :D
[21:36:29] <XXCoder> furry well a wild idea
[21:36:34] <furrywolf> even the distributor is shot... the shaft moves a half inch up and down, as there's no bearings left.
[21:36:34] <XXCoder> build a new 1970s engine
[21:36:42] <furrywolf> not worth it. :P
[21:36:52] <XXCoder> labor of love!
[21:36:53] <XXCoder> lol
[21:36:55] <zeeshan_> nice pete!
[21:36:57] <PetefromTn_> sounds like you need to find another car hehe
[21:36:58] <zeeshan_> 7.5hP!!
[21:37:00] <XXCoder> lol works for that too
[21:37:21] <bobo_> how was RV millage /
[21:37:24] <PetefromTn_> yeah man that is what the machine came with so I am trying to go back with that same size motor.
[21:37:36] <zeeshan_> PCW, close loop linuxcnc config is the one jt posted?
[21:37:44] <zeeshan_> with the basic ini and hal
[21:37:47] <furrywolf> I have a 5hp 3ph motor in storage, but don't remember how many poles.
[21:38:36] <furrywolf> we're just making a flat plate with both bellhousing bolt holes on it, and bolting them together... and spacing the flywheel out the right thickness to account for the plate and different bellhousing.
[21:38:39] <PetefromTn_> what I need is a 7.5HP 3Phase 1725 RPM motor with a C frame face mount. Crossing fingers here.
[21:39:00] <PetefromTn_> 230 volt
[21:39:03] <SpeedEvil> furrywolf: 'Ignition' is awesome.
[21:39:07] <SpeedEvil> I need to re-watch it.
[21:39:17] <furrywolf> if that fails, check your local area for a motor rebuilding shop... they might have a used/rebuilt one cheap.
[21:39:19] <SpeedEvil> https://twitter.com/elonmusk/status/192701084932907009 - most awesome pic ever
[21:39:24] <furrywolf> speedevil: Ignition!, a book.
[21:39:46] <pcw_home> zeeshan_: yes Jts one or one from pncconf
[21:39:57] <zeeshan_> pncconf is a bit complicated :P
[21:39:57] <PetefromTn_> LOL Frickin' sharks with Frickin' lasers on their heads hehehe
[21:40:00] <zeeshan_> i understand jt's
[21:40:19] <PetefromTn_> that guy is amazing...
[21:41:10] <furrywolf> speedevil: I said I was reading, not watching, remember? :P
[21:41:24] * furrywolf has never seen the movie with the similar name
[21:42:00] <SpeedEvil> furrywolf: err - yes - read - I meant
[21:42:11] <pcw_home> If you understand it, start with JT's example
[21:42:13] <pcw_home> I think the magic if you have to invert the analog output polarity (because the feedback is wrong=runaway)
[21:42:14] <pcw_home> is changing the sign of the analog out scalemax parameter
[21:42:18] <SpeedEvil> The last movie I watched may have been over 10 years ago
[21:42:23] <SpeedEvil> probably more like 6
[21:43:22] <zeeshan_> if im understanding this correct, i dont need the absolute encoders hooked up right now
[21:43:26] <furrywolf> I watched a few of Cem Yilmaz's films... it's nice to see something that's not hollywood's crap.
[21:43:51] <PetefromTn_> I kinda like Hollywoods crap
[21:44:22] <furrywolf> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yah%C5%9Fi_Bat%C4%B1 only available with subtitles (unless you speak turkish), but not bad.
[21:44:40] <pcw_home> you mean scales, no they are just a distraction at this point
[21:44:48] <pcw_home> if you mean
[21:45:06] <furrywolf> and his GORA/AROG scifi films weren't bad either
[21:45:37] <furrywolf> someone dragged me to see the star trek reboot... meh. too hollywood.;
[21:45:47] <zeeshan_> okay
[21:45:50] <zeeshan_> gonna try this.
[21:46:09] <zeeshan_> this is going to be a retarded question
[21:46:18] <zeeshan_> but how do you get linuxcnc to use that ini and .hal
[21:46:27] <zeeshan_> i used stepconf in the past to set that link up :)
[21:46:52] <furrywolf> cem yilmaz is kinda like a turkish mel brooks, if you like parody films.
[21:47:43] <bobo_> bobo liked the stargate movie and series
[21:47:57] <PetefromTn_> that is what I want to know too... I need to make an alternate config file so I can try to get my imperial native units setup finally
[21:50:04] <zeeshan_> linuxcnc /home/zeeshan/linuxcnc/configs/my-mill/my-mill.ini
[21:50:06] <furrywolf> I've watched a few stargate episodes... the original series had its moments, the "atlantis" series was fucking awful. it's like they hired the same people who planned Voyager. I think there's now a couple other series, but haven't seen them.
[21:50:11] <zeeshan_> used stepconf to get that
[21:50:11] <zeeshan_> lol
[21:50:58] <XXCoder> I olove atlanti
[21:51:44] <furrywolf> it's the same thing as voyager... let's make a cast carefully chosen to have personality conflicts, so we can do episodes about internal conflicts rather than plot.
[21:51:55] <zeeshan_> okay launched up axis
[21:51:58] <zeeshan_> it worked with that config
[21:51:58] <PetefromTn_> thats BS
[21:52:01] <XXCoder> not always
[21:53:37] <zeeshan_> PCW, use halscope?
[21:53:40] <zeeshan_> to monitor analogout?
[21:56:09] <SpeedEvil> furrywolf: well - the alternative is a cast with no personality :)
[21:56:28] <SpeedEvil> furrywolf: Imagine a drama set on ISS
[21:56:40] <SpeedEvil> furrywolf: something bad happens.
[21:57:01] <SpeedEvil> furrywolf: Everyone hides in the escape capsules for 5 hours while houston works out what it was.
[21:57:10] <SpeedEvil> furrywolf: they discover it was a faulty sensor card
[21:57:20] <SpeedEvil> Oh - my mistake - that was today
[21:57:22] <zeeshan_> monitoring hm2_5i25.0.7i77.0.1.analogout0
[21:57:26] <zeeshan_> doesnt show anything when i turn the motor
[21:57:27] <furrywolf> didn't that happen, like, yesterday? :P
[21:58:00] * SpeedEvil prefers B5.
[21:58:50] <PetefromTn_> man I love this little Air Hogs Quadcopter.
[21:59:00] <PetefromTn_> just too much fun to fly around the shop
[21:59:02] * furrywolf prefers not having a TV, and doesn't.
[21:59:45] <pcw_home> zeeshan_: do the encoders work? and if so do you have a non zero P term?
[22:00:06] <zeeshan_> pcw_home, my absolute encoders are not hooked up
[22:00:09] <PetefromTn_> FLyin' sorties from the granite surface plate around the millhead and then over to the shop workbench for a touch and go...heh
[22:00:10] <zeeshan_> my servo = tachometer based
[22:00:18] <zeeshan_> position loop is closed through glass scales
[22:00:45] <zeeshan_> i'd need to move the table
[22:00:53] <zeeshan_> to make them show something on hal :)
[22:01:28] <furrywolf> no rotary encoders?
[22:01:42] <zeeshan_> no
[22:01:55] <zeeshan_> thats why i was a bit confused on how to do this uncoupled :)
[22:02:08] <furrywolf> carefully.
[22:02:09] <zeeshan_> i need to keep the Z uncoupled cause its sitting on theg round
[22:02:25] <zeeshan_> if it tries to go in the direction of the ground, there will be a nice crash
[22:02:38] <furrywolf> zero it, move the axis by hand, make sure the motor starts turning the opposite direction
[22:02:51] <zeeshan_> i think ill use the same concept pcw was telling me
[22:02:56] <zeeshan_> hook up the abs encoders, move the axis.
[22:02:57] <furrywolf> blocks of soft material (wood, etc) at the ends of travel may be a good idea.
[22:03:12] <zeeshan_> manually by hand
[22:03:26] <furrywolf> isn't that what I just said? :)
[22:03:27] <zeeshan_> it should be in the opposite direction of travel
[22:03:30] <zeeshan_> i dont know
[22:03:34] <zeeshan_> yes furry
[22:03:38] <zeeshan_> just repeating
[22:03:58] <zeeshan_> okay that makes a lot of sense furry.
[22:04:08] <zeeshan_> youre right, if i turn the axis cw, motor should turn ccw
[22:04:33] <zeeshan_> i also dont know the specs of the ball screws
[22:04:54] <zeeshan_> gonna have to hook upa dial indicator later and see how much it physically moves
[22:05:11] <furrywolf> hold a ruler up to the screw. see how many threads fit in 1" or 1cm.
[22:05:20] <zeeshan_> well yea ill get it close
[22:05:23] <zeeshan_> im talking about dead on
[22:05:26] <furrywolf> they tend to be round numbers. :)
[22:05:30] <zeeshan_> im sure its some standard thread
[22:05:35] <zeeshan_> metric.
[22:05:46] <furrywolf> so see how many mm 10 threads is.
[22:05:55] <zeeshan_> no axis to Z.
[22:05:58] <zeeshan_> *access
[22:06:01] <zeeshan_> only Y and X.
[22:06:34] <zeeshan_> okay im gonna hook up the encoders. 3*8 wires here i come.
[22:06:56] <zeeshan_> thanks for the help guys.
[22:07:01] <zeeshan_> and Furry. :)
[23:14:39] <zeeshan_> quick q
[23:14:43] <zeeshan_> hooked up 1 absolute encoder
[23:14:48] <zeeshan_> what pin should i monitor to check if it works
[23:17:29] <zeeshan_> encoder.02.position shows 0.
[23:18:00] <zeeshan_> same with rawcounts
[23:18:07] <zeeshan_> well rawcounts says 2
[23:22:33] <PetefromTn_> turn the motor shaft to see if move?
[23:22:41] <zeeshan_> its absolute encoder
[23:22:46] <zeeshan_> its connected to table
[23:22:51] <zeeshan_> im trying to spin the ball screw
[23:22:54] <zeeshan_> but i dont see anything
[23:23:18] <PetefromTn_> this is your Z axis?
[23:23:43] <zeeshan_> i was looking at wrong axis but still same thing
[23:23:51] <zeeshan_> encoder.00.count -13
[23:23:58] <zeeshan_> encoder.00.rawcounts -13
[23:24:16] <zeeshan_> it doesnt seem to change when i rotate the ball screw
[23:24:27] <zeeshan_> i wish i had an oscilloscope at this point :/
[23:25:12] <archivist> did you forget the power to the encoders
[23:25:15] <zeeshan_> no
[23:25:18] <zeeshan_> i chcked power
[23:25:20] <zeeshan_> im getting 5v to it
[23:25:30] <zeeshan_> i measured channel a at analog side
[23:25:36] <zeeshan_> and its giving me a random value of 3.08V
[23:25:50] <zeeshan_> like all the signals a \a b \b index \index have voltages there
[23:25:55] <archivist> differential signal then
[23:25:56] <zeeshan_> some are like .5 some are 3
[23:27:09] <zeeshan_> PetefromTn_, X axis
[23:28:16] <PetefromTn_> yeah
[23:34:35] <zeeshan_> i wonder if i forgot to flip the jumper on the 7i77
[23:50:05] <zeeshan_> you guys wanna know what the problem was?
[23:50:08] <zeeshan_> im gonna admit this.
[23:50:09] <zeeshan_> LOL
[23:50:18] <zeeshan_> i bet you guys cant guess it
[23:50:49] <zeeshan_> BAHAHA
[23:50:50] <zeeshan_> ..
[23:51:48] <zeeshan_> i didn't plug in the encoder. :)
[23:51:50] <zeeshan_> it works now.
[23:51:54] <zeeshan_> gonna hook up the rest.
[23:58:33] <XXCoder> jeez
https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=31uATZkJBKo
