#linuxcnc | Logs for 2015-01-06

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[00:01:35] <zeeshan|2> PetefromTn_: the reason i think its not common
[00:01:46] <zeeshan|2> not "linuxcnc's fault"
[00:01:53] <zeeshan|2> is the existence of this website: http://www.mastercam.com/en-us/Solutions/3rd-Party-Solutions/Post-Processor-Services
[00:02:19] <PetefromTn_> G84 Z-0.600 R0.2 F56.25 S900(900 rpm divided by 16 tpi = 56.25 ipm) that's a HAAS rigid tap line
[00:02:40] <zeeshan|2> ahhhh
[00:03:04] <zeeshan|2> thats how you got 12.5
[00:03:05] <zeeshan|2> 200/16
[00:03:16] <zeeshan|2> so just do
[00:03:28] <zeeshan|2> whatever the feedrate number it's outputting * spindle rpm
[00:03:34] <PetefromTn_> yeah and that is basically how they setup in all the shops I worked in...
[00:03:46] <zeeshan|2> K = 1/(whatever the feedrate number it's outputting * spindle rpm)
[00:03:56] <PetefromTn_> yeah
[00:04:03] <zeeshan|2> you cracked the code :D
[00:04:07] <PetefromTn_> just can't seem to get the post to do it LOL
[00:04:14] <zeeshan|2> in your post processor
[00:04:17] <zeeshan|2> can you multiple numbers?
[00:04:24] <PetefromTn_> not sure
[00:04:37] <PetefromTn_> I am going to mess with it here this convo gave me some ideas...
[00:04:43] <PetefromTn_> thanks for the help
[00:05:08] <PetefromTn_> right now I need to get this damn part programmed so since it is just one freakin' hole I will just hand code the bastard.
[00:05:42] * PetefromTn_ <===== HATES HAND CODING
[00:05:44] <zeeshan|2> np man
[00:05:45] <zeeshan|2> hahaha
[00:05:47] <zeeshan|2> me too man
[00:22:29] <Bushman> PetefromTn_: it wasn't a problem with squares
[00:22:45] <Bushman> PetefromTn_: the radius wa 0 in the,
[00:23:24] <Bushman> http://bushman.pl/misc/screenshots/dxf2gcode_test.png
[00:30:47] <Bushman> so no tool compensation for me after all.
[00:38:34] <PetefromTn_> Bushman sorry I was not aware of the shapes..
[00:38:45] <PetefromTn_> what are you trying to do?
[00:56:20] <witnit> just ordered my 7i92 today im gwon be sooooooooooo happy
[00:58:10] <The_Ball> PetefromTn_, tried LinuxCNC-Features?
[01:14:08] <witnit> does anyone have suggestions for fanless motherboard and fanless power supplys?
[01:43:03] <archivist> do you really need fanless, the cutting process is noisy
[01:43:23] <witnit> :) yeah it would be nice
[01:43:36] <witnit> there is no monitor keyboard or mouse on this machine
[01:44:05] <witnit> just reboot and everything is starting automatic and running without a remote access
[01:44:13] <archivist> silent motors needed too?
[01:44:23] <witnit> no motors
[01:44:34] <witnit> just on/off relays
[01:44:45] <witnit> and prox switches
[01:45:20] <witnit> its currently running from usb stick
[01:45:26] <witnit> ssd would be nice
[01:47:13] <witnit> the reason for fanless is due to enviroment and the air is too bad to filter
[01:49:56] <archivist> you still have to then use convection to get rid of the heat, often when that is the case there are internal fans circulating the air to take heat from parts to the inner wall of the box, with ribbing on the inner and outer
[01:52:46] <witnit> i will be running without x, the cpu/gpu simply wont put out tha much heat i dont think
[01:53:12] <witnit> i can always point a fan at it if the system overheats
[01:56:11] <archivist> you can design for convection, it just needs wider spacing on the heatsinks and vertical walls
[01:57:21] <XXCoder> why want no fans?
[01:59:41] <witnit> oily mist in the enviroment, mucks up the internals of any open-airflow systems, and also reduced size
[02:00:11] <XXCoder> water cooler?
[02:00:18] <zeeshan|2> witnit
[02:00:19] <witnit> too much money
[02:00:21] <zeeshan|2> one of my computers uses this:
[02:00:21] <XXCoder> that way everything is sealed
[02:00:37] <witnit> zeeshan
[02:00:48] <zeeshan|2> https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcRNGlZEZ0iTHbA0mNAIE7hlT7yFNXwpp8a1TK2TvQisofCwwis9EA
[02:00:49] <zeeshan|2> er
[02:00:53] <zeeshan|2> http://www.quietpc.com/images/products/asus-triton75-large.jpg
[02:00:53] <archivist> I have a couple of cases here that would eat that job, the back wall is a heatsink extenal fins, internally it all bolts to the rear wall
[02:01:24] <XXCoder> pretty cool http://www.genomicon.com/2009/10/stirling-engine-cpu-cooler/
[02:01:30] <witnit> overkill
[02:01:31] <XXCoder> its literally powered by heat
[02:01:40] <zeeshan|2> haha thats awesome
[02:01:59] <XXCoder> even if blackout happens it will keep on trucking to keep cpu cool
[02:02:09] <XXCoder> in least till it evens out
[02:02:10] <witnit> ok i might do this
[02:02:44] <witnit> i have an extra copper core pentium cooler heatsink, i can surely make an engine for it
[02:03:14] <zeeshan|2> haha XXCoder
[02:03:22] <witnit> still need a simple mini-itx
[02:04:25] <XXCoder> it never moved behind prototype sadly
[02:04:58] <XXCoder> I still want to build my own stirling engine
[02:05:08] <witnit> do it
[02:05:11] <XXCoder> powerful enough to liqudify air.
[02:05:17] <XXCoder> nah no machines to make parts
[02:05:23] <witnit> :/
[02:05:37] <witnit> but how do you even...
[02:05:43] <witnit> you need a lathe
[02:05:59] <XXCoder> yeah lathe is almost enough on its own
[02:06:13] <XXCoder> expecially type umm b I think
[02:06:19] <XXCoder> A you need more than just lathe
[02:06:48] <witnit> drills, taps, lathe will do you wonders
[02:07:15] <XXCoder> http://citizensciencequarterly.com/2011/05/liquid-nitrogen-generator/
[02:08:11] <zeeshan|2> XXCoder: now thats a COOL project
[02:08:13] <zeeshan|2> bookmarked.
[02:08:28] <zeeshan|2> i wonder if i can get argon
[02:08:30] <XXCoder> it does not say how to make or where to make stirling b type though
[02:09:17] <XXCoder> type B is perfect since it just has one cylender
[02:09:23] <XXCoder> perfect for air liquidifer
[02:09:37] <XXCoder> type A is best if you want referator or something
[02:10:01] <XXCoder> zeeshan|2: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stirling_engine
[02:10:05] <XXCoder> it has nifty graphics
[02:10:13] <zeeshan|2> yea ive seen a stirling engine
[02:10:19] <zeeshan|2> but that liquid n2 is COOL
[02:10:24] <XXCoder> yeah
[02:10:25] <zeeshan|2> 1L per da!
[02:10:58] <XXCoder> I bet ya with more you can get it even colder
[02:14:13] <XXCoder> variant https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4_bGkztd7t0
[02:20:37] <XXCoder> zeeshan|2: you plan to make stiring part yourself too?
[02:32:30] <Deejay> moin
[02:34:00] <archivist> witnit, this sort or design http://s3.electronics-cooling.com/legacy_images/1998/01/a2fig2.gif
[02:34:06] <archivist> or/of
[02:34:27] <XXCoder> hey
[02:36:26] <witnit> yes but really this software can run on very low requirments, why do i need to worry about heat so much
[02:36:43] <XXCoder> probably underclock?
[02:37:32] <witnit> that would make sense
[02:37:35] <archivist> witnit, make something, measure the internal temperature, then worry or not
[02:38:06] <archivist> 50 deg c or above is worry
[02:38:16] <witnit> yeah thats what im thinking, i just thought maybe fanless power supplies were more popular
[02:38:21] <witnit> and pcs
[02:39:16] <archivist> even if a psu has a fan you can use the case wall without holes to remove the heat
[02:40:38] <witnit> right, i plan to build te case from aluminum
[02:40:40] <XXCoder> external heat sinks on case?
[02:40:45] <archivist> a decent fanless switcher should be ok just not a cheap chinese psu
[02:40:49] <witnit> the case is the heatsink
[02:40:57] <XXCoder> it could be self contained fans to spread heat to case
[02:41:04] <XXCoder> zero air exchange
[02:41:23] <witnit> right, closed circuit is fine
[02:41:33] <witnit> but fans still fail
[02:41:49] <XXCoder> not when case has no air holes
[02:41:58] <witnit> i just want to sit this thing and forget it
[02:42:00] <XXCoder> well besides normal aging
[02:42:10] <archivist> fans fail always, they are mechanical
[02:42:16] <witnit> if there is vibration the fans will not have the same lifespan i feel
[02:42:25] <witnit> unless i put pn good ones
[02:42:34] <XXCoder> archivist: pretty good secret: fan has oil holes under sticker
[02:42:43] <XXCoder> decent quality ones does anyway
[02:43:06] <archivist> XXCoder, I spent a while oiling fans a week ago, been doing it for years
[02:43:09] <witnit> it just seems best to keep this as simple and compact as possible since there will be nothing but power supply and one ethernet cable attached
[02:43:24] <XXCoder> nice
[02:43:35] <XXCoder> heh my fans always manage to last very long time
[02:43:45] <archivist> and they are still noisy!
[02:44:17] <witnit> i throttle mine manually :/ probably not the best way, but is better for gaming
[02:44:25] <Jymmm> archivist: Not as noisy as the failing ones on the 24p switch under my desk =)
[02:44:25] <XXCoder> bigass heat sinks then heh
[02:45:18] <Jymmm> or the 4x 15,000 RPM 1.5" fans I have
[02:45:31] <Jymmm> on a 1U server
[02:45:46] <Jymmm> hostname = BANSHEE
[02:46:19] <witnit> i thought about putting in a hole undermy desk and venting cool air into my cpu tower so i could keep it quiet
[02:46:22] <Jymmm> You just have to walk near the isle in the data center to know which cabinet it's in
[02:46:33] <witnit> so from the crawlspace to the pc
[02:46:40] <archivist> Jymmm, that PC has 4 disk caddy, gpu, cpu, psu and 4 disk drives rattling
[02:47:02] <Jymmm> archivist: Ah, you dont believe in mounting hardware I see =)
[02:47:27] <archivist> 3 mounted and one caddy for transfer
[02:47:46] <Jymmm> archivist: heh, it's okey I think it's a PITA too =)
[02:48:31] <Jymmm> I sorta really have no use for them, but want to order some Fahnestock Clips
[02:48:32] <witnit> I had an old quantum bigfoot for years that made all sorts of racket but it was so nostalgic i enjoyed using it
[02:50:31] <Jymmm> http://www.enasco.com/prod/images/products/4C/AC008191l.jpg
[02:51:32] <Jymmm> make good allen wrench holders too
[03:11:17] <Bushman> Pete left before i could answer :(
[03:27:00] <Jymmm> Does anyoen know of a QUALITY stripper that can do this cleanly? http://i.ebayimg.com/00/s/MTQxOFgxNjAw/z/KD8AAMXQNo5TcKzM/$_57.JPG
[03:28:13] <witnit> Yeah but i dont think she would like me sharing her name on some chat
[03:28:27] <witnit> ohhh that kind of stripp
[03:30:41] <Bushman> i do
[03:30:52] <Bushman> Jymmm: but they don't sell them anymore XD
[03:31:02] <witnit> stripmaster may have something you need
[03:31:18] <Bushman> it is polish product back from the 90's
[03:31:24] <Jymmm> Bushman: the dinosaur ones?
[03:31:39] <Bushman> more of a crocodile but yea :D
[03:32:27] <Jymmm> Bushman: A quality version of this??? http://www.ebay.com/itm/Automatic-Wire-Stripper-With-Cable-Cutter-Multifunctional-Terminal-Tool-/261635262759?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item3ceaad4927
[03:32:28] <Bushman> my father still uses them. tho somewhere along the way he made a mistake and stripped a tooth... the rest works fine for all these years
[03:32:48] <Bushman> ugh... fugly shit... Jymmm don't buy those
[03:32:57] <witnit> no buy those
[03:33:04] <Jymmm> Bushman: No, I was asking if that is what you were talking about
[03:33:37] <Bushman> no. the construction is mostly the same but those are crappy quality
[03:33:46] <Jymmm> of course
[03:33:50] <Bushman> i'll try to find the model my dad's using
[03:34:44] <witnit> i think you can buy custom blades for the stripmaster
[03:35:12] <witnit> so depending on how many and what size you ribbon is, you can do the whole ribbon at once
[03:38:40] <Jymmm> Nice idea... http://hackaday.com/2012/02/03/printable-wire-stripper-lights-up-when-you-hit-the-conductor/
[03:40:03] <witnit> dont use your teeth
[03:41:09] <Jymmm> I used to have an adjustable pair of those dinosaur strippers, worked great till they broke.
[03:44:04] <Jymmm> Kinda like these... http://cdn2.bigcommerce.com/n-zfvgw8/yjfvvd1/products/518/images/2110/YY_78_318__27078.1407966022.1280.1280.jpg?c=2
[03:44:22] <Jymmm> the knob adjusts the tension
[03:44:46] <Jymmm> the orange thing is a length stop block
[03:45:10] <Jymmm> But I'd like a QUALITY pair
[03:45:25] <witnit> irwin self adjusting isnt too bad but if you get too small of wires it just destroys it
[03:45:56] <witnit> it also does not do well with rubber wriggler stle wire
[03:46:01] <witnit> you know that goooood stuff
[03:58:00] <Jymmm> CRAP http://carpentermfg.com/product/model-48/
[03:59:03] <witnit> 6,000 lmao
[03:59:51] <witnit> you could do better yourself with a sufrace grinder making grooves on some old garden snips
[04:00:50] <witnit> just make your own set of blades for those stripmaster brand ones
[04:01:17] <witnit> you will probably be happiest if you always use the same type of wire often
[04:01:24] <Jymmm> witnit: link?
[04:01:36] <witnit> ebay, stripmaster
[04:01:39] <witnit> im on console here
[04:01:40] <Jymmm> witnit: link?
[04:01:49] <Jymmm> not helpful at all
[04:01:54] <Jymmm> modle#
[04:01:57] <Jymmm> part#
[04:01:58] <Jymmm> etc
[04:01:59] <witnit> sutom
[04:02:01] <witnit> custom
[04:02:11] <witnit> just google stripmaster custom
[04:27:35] <Loetmichel2> *soooo*... next prototype ready for the Spectrum analyzer chamber... if it meets specs -> building a small series of 10 and then powder coat it and ship it to the customer... -> http://www.cyrom.org/palbum/main.php?g2_itemId=15514
[04:28:07] <Loetmichel2> ... alMg3 is a nice sheet metal, bending by hand is really easy
[04:28:18] <Loetmichel2> :-)
[04:33:38] <Computer_Barf> http://miami.craigslist.org/brw/zip/4834353955.html
[04:33:52] <Computer_Barf> i just contacted this person on craiglist
[04:34:23] <Computer_Barf> "currently under power" does that mean currently hooked to power?
[04:34:26] <witnit> tis beautiful
[04:34:44] <archivist> yes
[04:36:29] <Computer_Barf> i figure even if its junk the iron would hold value
[04:36:53] <Computer_Barf> a working lathe for free would be amazing
[04:37:59] <witnit> looks like a richy bit of town you might be surprised hw nice it is
[04:38:54] <Jymmm> craftsman lathe..... hmmmm
[04:39:16] <witnit> ohh craftsmman..
[04:41:08] <Bushman> fucking hypocrite, my dad...
[04:41:12] <Bushman> cutting his PCB is perfectly fine and the noise is not a problem... cutting my stuff 5 minutes later, "it's a holiday! people want peace and quiet!!!"
[04:41:31] <Computer_Barf> lol
[04:43:15] <Jymmm> Computer_Barf: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=srdCd5tCb9E
[04:43:42] <Computer_Barf> 30's lol
[04:44:06] <Computer_Barf> shit if it turns metal though superior to nothing
[04:44:17] <witnit> you would be happy if it was that one
[04:44:39] <witnit> an older craftsman would treat most people really well to learn on
[04:44:52] <witnit> like a #109 maybe
[04:45:07] <Computer_Barf> is something like that capable of threading?
[04:45:31] <witnit> after you add the servos :)
[04:46:17] <Computer_Barf> would the spindle need to be servo or would you just put an encoder on it?
[04:46:26] <witnit> there is this group of guys that make this software, goes on linux, i think they cll it EMC or somthing would totally cut threads
[04:46:34] <Computer_Barf> lol
[04:47:11] <Bushman> latest batch, waiting to be assembled: http://i.imgur.com/lVJpGTE.jpg
[04:47:29] <Computer_Barf> fucking cute
[04:47:56] <witnit> oooh, you getting your honeydew list finished up hmm bushman?
[04:48:19] <Jymmm> pacman earrings?
[04:48:39] <Computer_Barf> pretty brillient choice
[04:48:54] <witnit> agreed
[04:48:56] <Computer_Barf> i bet those sell all day
[04:49:13] <Bushman> honeydew list?
[04:49:16] <Bushman> Jymmm: yea :D
[04:49:27] <Jymmm> other than the fact they are under license?
[04:50:30] <Computer_Barf> and now china is making millions of them
[04:50:45] <witnit> yeah, you get a lady around and shes always like later could you do this for me honey, yeah and i need a pacman and honey could you do the eyes a little different
[04:50:51] <witnit> honeydew
[04:51:13] <Bushman> oh come on, people make licensed stuff all day long, it's not like i'm doing dozens of them,
[04:51:22] <Bushman> just few pairs for on-line friends
[04:51:31] <Jymmm> if they are gifts, no problem.
[04:51:51] <Computer_Barf> sell them to shops
[04:51:58] <Bushman> besides i have no official business that i could sell those from
[04:52:17] <Computer_Barf> ebay
[04:52:24] <Bushman> Computer_Barf: now that would be problematic :P i would need the license for that XD
[04:52:37] <Computer_Barf> bah
[04:52:51] <Computer_Barf> too many scurples
[04:52:52] <Jymmm> Computer_Barf: Great!, then you wouldn't mind signing and notorizing this realse and authorization from?
[04:53:04] <Jymmm> form*
[04:53:12] <witnit> fram
[04:53:20] <witnit> FRAMED
[04:55:14] <Computer_Barf> http://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_odkw=pac+man&_from=R40&_osacat=0&_from=R40&_trksid=p2045573.m570.l1313.TR0.TRC0.H0.Xpac+man+ear+ring&_nkw=pac+man+ear+rings&_sacat=0
[04:55:25] <Computer_Barf> im sure all of this is legit, right?
[04:55:56] <witnit> considering the billions of terabytes of illegal pirated movies go shared every second
[04:56:25] <witnit> i dont personally know anyone who has even been charged
[04:56:46] <witnit> i doubt a couple pacmans will wind you up in prison
[04:56:58] <Computer_Barf> http://www.ebay.com/itm/pac-man-earrings-studs-emo-retro-pink-/260709962066?pt=UK_JewelleryWatches_WomensJewellery_Rings_SR&hash=item3cb3865152
[04:57:01] <Computer_Barf> looks official
[04:58:23] <mrsun> a bicycle chain .. "stiffness" compared to a steel cable ?
[04:58:28] <mrsun> should be alot stiffer right ?
[04:58:51] <Computer_Barf> you would probably just get a cease and decist , or a copywrite claim on the ebay listing
[04:58:56] <Tom_itx> depends on the cable
[04:59:09] <mrsun> Tom_itx: hmm .. is there different types? =)
[04:59:12] <archivist> and chain
[04:59:13] <Tom_itx> the chain will stretch
[04:59:14] <mrsun> ordenary harware store cable :P
[04:59:27] <Tom_itx> archivist, he clarified 'bicycle' chain
[04:59:34] <Tom_itx> that narrows the size down a bit
[04:59:37] <mrsun> my cable seem to be stretchng .. or something else is flexing somewhere
[04:59:43] <archivist> even then it varies
[05:00:14] <Tom_itx> the chain will probably stretch more
[05:00:16] <mrsun> if i had some kind of heavy duty weight measuring system i guess one could measure flex with indicators =)
[05:00:33] <mrsun> Tom_itx: hmm .. .but a chain isnt spun ... spiraled
[05:00:37] <archivist> flex or stretch?
[05:01:03] <mrsun> http://www.wattoo.dk/media/catalog/product/cache/1/image/700x500/db2b9889405e9db0b78cf71d8e7a875b/7/d/7dfaa7f9-89d9-4c67-b9fc-9fc707552e8e.JPG.jpg
[05:01:06] <archivist> flex is bending/twisting
[05:01:26] <mrsun> archivist: yes ... something is moving on my machine ... either the wire is stretching .. or something else is flexing =)
[05:01:30] <Computer_Barf> you know what would be good is the question mark blocks from mario bro's
[05:02:03] <Tom_itx> http://www.kronowit.com/bicycling/chainstretch.html
[05:02:21] <Tom_itx> maybe the cable is wearing into the pulleys as well
[05:02:39] <mrsun> Tom_itx: hmm but that is stretch over time
[05:03:06] <mrsun> i mean chock "springiness" .. if i say it like that then?
[05:03:19] <Tom_itx> that's different
[05:03:32] <archivist> people often overlook machine member bending
[05:04:05] <mrsun> archivist: yes .. i have bending and im adressing that issue today probably =)
[05:04:10] <archivist> DTI and lean on parts to find the problem
[05:04:24] <mrsun> the side rail supports that the wire is tied to is bending when i tighten the wire .. quite alot =)
[05:04:27] <archivist> add stiffening webs too
[05:05:13] <mrsun> gonna add supports almost in line with the pulleys that hold the wire from one side to the other to keep the beams from bending when tightening the cable =)
[05:05:28] <mrsun> but was thinking of chaning to chain as i understand its supposed to be alot stiffer than wire rope
[05:05:49] <Tom_itx> support the pulleys on both sides instead of one
[05:06:05] <Tom_itx> that will equalize the tension
[05:06:06] <archivist> the frame resists the stress in the same was cable or chain, makes little difference
[05:06:10] <mrsun> Tom_itx: that is also true ... alot of mistakes on this machine that should be adressed =)
[05:06:36] <Computer_Barf> have any of you guys milled any kinds of stone?
[05:06:40] <mrsun> archivist: yes but initial tightening of the chain vs cable is different i guess
[05:06:49] <archivist> no
[05:06:52] <mrsun> as a stiff chain will need alot less tightening then a springy cable
[05:07:13] <mrsun> as i have to torque quite good on the cable to get the spring out of it
[05:07:33] <witnit> maybe there is a specially braided cable which is not prone to gaining length under a load
[05:07:39] <Loetmichel> Mr_Sheesh: i wpuldnt say that a chain has neccessarily mess "spring" in it than a steel wire cable
[05:07:43] <archivist> get straight unbent cable
[05:07:44] <Loetmichel> less
[05:09:14] <mrsun> archivist: humm ... and where the heck do you get that ?
[05:09:22] <mrsun> all cable in hardware stores etc is twisted type ...
[05:10:34] <mrsun> it has to be able to turn over a 40mm pulley also ... like 270 degrees :P
[05:10:41] <witnit> do you have a photo of your project?
[05:11:47] <mrsun> https://scontent-a-fra.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ash2/v/t1.0-9/1383492_10151904894628648_353794229_n.jpg?oh=0061890d0a8d6fc2fb426bd8e1f5a8df&oe=55305D20
[05:11:50] <mrsun> there the wires shows
[05:12:10] <mrsun> and yes, could use alot more stiffening here and there =) and like i said .. im adressing some of it today =)
[05:12:18] <mrsun> https://fbcdn-sphotos-d-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-ash2/v/t1.0-9/1383881_10151904894568648_1860741487_n.jpg?oh=391ddfb0491be67390b0649cb13a16a4&oe=55261959&__gda__=1430605357_59fc432c1dab97a9cf9edd4780a98140
[05:13:00] <mrsun> got some places that realy can be twisting on the machine .. to little expierence when building :P
[05:13:29] <mrsun> https://fbcdn-sphotos-g-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-xfp1/v/t1.0-9/1005366_10151836852923648_362473394_n.jpg?oh=13469a2355d95198b15c88225b1a7d7e&oe=5525C9C1&__gda__=1433340059_953e7f23cda76645c3a246abaae9ac59 like those, only held in place with M10 bolts =)
[05:14:40] <mrsun> so when pusing the non driving side i got flex of like 1 - 2cm in something
[05:14:52] <mrsun> and that makes ALOT of instability when routing at the far end =)
[05:15:16] <archivist> a lot drive both sides
[05:15:45] <mrsun> archivist: i drive both sides but using a cable with a single drive source
[05:15:49] <mrsun> thats why i want it to be stiff =)
[05:15:54] <mrsun> so other side wont flex
[05:16:27] <archivist> single? is this a thing bar that has torsional twist
[05:16:35] <archivist> thin
[05:16:46] <mrsun> archivist: huh ? =)
[05:18:00] <archivist> I cannot see the cable run and how it drives both sides
[05:18:39] <mrsun> archivist: on the first picture .. there is a cross of a cable in the teable
[05:18:47] <witnit> your encoder is on the motor?
[05:18:47] <mrsun> this is fixed on both ends of the gantry
[05:19:40] <mrsun> like a draft table keeps the ruler square
[05:20:10] <archivist> my drafting table had no cross,
[05:20:29] <archivist> two rollers and a connecting bar
[05:20:52] <mrsun> archivist: well there are different models i guess ... =)
[05:21:28] <archivist> I need a diagram and where the motor is, seems unbalanced
[05:21:32] <mrsun> doesnt realy mater how it works .. just that it works .. the cable crosses under the table and is fixed in both ends of the gantry, the driving side will pull the non driven side with it square at the same pace
[05:21:52] <mrsun> wait =)
[05:21:55] <archivist> it does not work with 2cm difference
[05:22:15] <mrsun> its FLEX that makes the diff ... something is flexing
[05:22:21] <mrsun> and im guessing the cable that is almost 8 meters long
[05:23:07] <archivist> I am guessing if you grab the gantry and push/pull at the ends it will be obvious
[05:23:26] <mrsun> yes if i do it at the "non driven" side it moves ALOT .. like i said ...
[05:23:33] <mrsun> the other side is held in place with a ballscrew
[05:23:35] <mrsun> so that isnt moving
[05:25:25] <archivist> you have not put enough tension on the cable probably
[05:25:46] <mrsun> archivist: thats what i mean ...
[05:25:55] <mrsun> if i put more i pull the side beams inwards like hell
[05:26:20] <mrsun> and using something STIFFER than a cable ... would result in me not having to have to pull 1000 pounds of preasure on it to make it stiff
[05:27:14] <archivist> add a bar to react to the pull in force in the gap between the rails
[05:27:43] <archivist> not a cable error, this is a frame error
[05:27:59] <mrsun> http://i57.tinypic.com/m9ak3n.png that is how the table is built ... green is the wire, black is beams ... blue is ballscrew, pink is the gantry and where pink meets blue is fixed points on the wire =)
[05:28:45] <mrsun> archivist: yes ... and due to my mistake .. building the frame to weak ... adding something more stiff so i do not have to put like i said ... a couple of thousands of pounds of preasure on it ... would help it not to flex to kingdom comes :P
[05:29:42] <archivist> still no image yet on tinypic
[05:29:51] <mrsun> wtf
[05:30:28] <mrsun> http://tinypic.com/r/m9ak3n/8 does that work ? it works for me
[05:30:37] <mrsun> http://oi57.tinypic.com/m9ak3n.jpg
[05:31:20] <archivist> http://www.collection.archivist.info/archive/grabs/Screenshot-13.png
[05:31:35] <mrsun> but like i said .. i know ive made the frame to weak .. and im trying to fix it ... i will add braces today .. but still i do not want to have to torque the thing to kingdom comes .. and thats why i was looking at chains ... as i understand they would be alot more "chock" stiff and not flex as much as a wire .. at alot less tension
[05:32:05] <mrsun> archivist: something is obviously wrong with your computer if it looks like that :P
[05:32:25] <archivist> nothing wrong with the computer
[05:32:34] <mrsun> try the direct link i posted last
[05:32:49] <archivist> you have no reaction bar, make it a rectangle
[05:32:59] <mrsun> "reaction bar" ?
[05:33:17] <mrsun> im going to add bars at the far ends of the beams today
[05:33:20] <archivist> at the rollers a bar/tube to the other rail
[05:34:05] <mrsun> as ive measured quite alot of flex when im tensioning the cable .. so ive opted to not tension it to far as i would bend my beams and make my rails go bananas =)
[05:34:09] <mrsun> but gonna try and fix that
[05:34:13] <archivist> and an X between corners for the shear stress
[05:34:24] <mrsun> but still the question was .. is chain more stiff than cable? at a lower tension? =)
[05:34:50] <archivist> forget chain v cable, that is not your problem
[05:34:55] <Loetmichel> anyone mentoined that a chaien has a position error?
[05:35:00] <Loetmichel> chain
[05:35:04] <archivist> not yet
[05:35:27] <mrsun> Loetmichel: doesnt mater in this application
[05:35:38] <mrsun> im not drinv with the chain or cable .. its only to pull the other side with it
[05:35:49] <Loetmichel> mrsun: you want to drive a CNC mill with it, i WOULD say itmattes
[05:35:52] <mrsun> so as long as a link doesnt flex after its tensioned the position will be aboslute =)
[05:36:06] <archivist> wrong
[05:36:12] <archivist> it does matter
[05:36:14] <mrsun> Loetmichel: im driving it with a ballscrew.. all the chain/cable does is to pull the other side with it
[05:36:17] <mrsun> it isnt driven in any way
[05:36:28] <Loetmichel> it has an erroe with EVERY chain link going thru the sprocket
[05:36:28] <mrsun> the distance from one side to the other will always be a constant
[05:36:33] <archivist> it carries all the reaction force
[05:36:59] <mrsun> Loetmichel: ok then .. if a link is longger then an other it will be a diff when it hits the sprocket =)
[05:37:16] <archivist> the variation in length will change the effective position
[05:37:42] <Loetmichel> no
[05:37:47] <archivist> it is as it mounts the sprocket there it a step change
[05:37:50] <Loetmichel> the problem is the tilting motion of the links
[05:38:12] <Loetmichel> even if ANY link is the same size wyou will get periodic differences in length
[05:38:22] <archivist> mrsun, your thinking on chain is wrong
[05:39:01] <mrsun> yeah im starting to understand what Loetmichel is saying and i accept it .. wire might be better =)
[05:39:12] <mrsun> but needs alot more tension to be as stiff i guess
[05:39:45] <mrsun> i need to rebuild the machine with the knowledge ive gained while building this one :P
[05:39:54] <archivist> lots of machines use wire, toothed belts are really a wire system with added error
[05:40:26] <archivist> the teeth add the chain error :)
[05:41:18] <mrsun> oh well, i guess go out and make some beams to put between the beams to take up the forces pushing them to bananas =)
[05:41:43] <mrsun> and troque the living hell out of that wire
[05:41:45] <archivist> dont forget the X beams to counter shear stress
[05:41:54] <mrsun> archivist: cant fit that on the machine as it is now
[05:42:11] <mrsun> needs some substantial rebuilds to be able to put that there =)
[05:42:21] <mrsun> or not that much .. but need to remove table and everything
[05:42:44] <archivist> pull across the corners will pull a parallelogram shape
[05:43:22] <mrsun> and like someone said .. i realy need to make brackets to hold the pulleys on both sides
[05:43:23] <Loetmichel> mrsun: i have build a machine that uses 2mm steel cable
[05:43:29] <Loetmichel> with good success
[05:43:49] <mrsun> Loetmichel: i have good success .. only that its a little bit flexy .. and gonna take one error out now atleast =)
[05:44:37] <Loetmichel> http://www.cyrom.org/palbum/main.php?g2_itemId=10465&g2_imageViewsIndex=1
[05:45:14] <Loetmichel> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uYgyqjHCBLg
[05:45:22] <Loetmichel> :-)
[05:45:32] <Loetmichel> was a dispenser for fluids
[06:04:12] <mrsun> =)
[09:14:59] <zq> is there a way to issue instructions from inside g-code to a stepgen axis in velocity mode?
[09:19:42] <jthornton> instructions?
[09:25:39] <archivist> zq what is the real problem you are trying to solve
[09:27:07] <jdh> spindle control via stepgen?
[09:30:27] <zq> well not exactly
[09:30:48] <zq> spindle control is doable via m-codes
[09:31:21] <zq> but if, hypothetically, could i control a second spindle independently of the first?
[09:32:42] <archivist> what is the real job, it may have been solved in hal
[09:33:28] <zq> i doubt it. i just want to drive a small fan with stepgen while i'm milling
[09:34:44] <cradek> and silence falls
[09:36:36] <zq> how amenable are we to a few more m-codes? it's pretty hacky, but i can't think of anything better
[09:36:50] <jdh> you can make your own m-code
[09:37:50] <archivist> just use a dc motor and switch on/off
[09:37:51] <JT-Shop> zq, M7 or M8
[09:38:08] <archivist> m62-65
[09:38:23] <JT-Shop> classicladder
[09:38:54] <zq> cradek: what's your take on this?
[09:39:08] <archivist> or m67 to the stepgen
[09:39:43] <cradek> zq: my take is that making a fan out of a stepper motor is extremely silly
[09:39:44] <zq> JT-Shop: this isn't really for coolant purposes. and i'd need variable speed control
[09:39:57] <cradek> there are many motor types that rotate on their own
[09:40:15] <zq> cradek: really? computer fans do it all the time.
[09:40:28] <archivist> do you want to synch it, see the hobbing methods
[09:40:40] <cradek> what is the fan for?
[09:40:59] <zq> to blow off really annoying to touch milling debris
[09:41:12] <JT-Shop> M6/7 can turn on anything you like it is not limited to coolant pump
[09:41:16] <archivist> plain dc fan then
[09:41:41] <archivist> stepper fan is just not sensible
[09:41:47] <zq> JT-Shop: speed control
[09:41:51] <zq> archivist: speed control
[09:42:19] <cradek> a stepper motor can't even turn a fan fast enough to fan, can it?
[09:42:24] <JT-Shop> analog out for speed
[09:42:27] <archivist> you want more speed I bet than a stepper will ever give you
[09:42:41] <cradek> why do you need speed control to blow away debris?
[09:42:55] <cradek> you're making your life very hard for no reason
[09:43:17] <zq> small debris, large debris, depending on how the miling is done
[09:43:22] <zq> +l
[09:43:44] * JT-Shop doubts a fan will blow off large debris
[09:44:03] <cradek> especially a fan on a stepper motor
[09:44:06] <JT-Shop> so M7 for fluff and M8 for stones
[09:44:19] <archivist> a valve on the high pressure air line makes more sense
[09:44:42] * JT-Shop needs to get some productive work done now
[09:44:48] <zq> maybe i'll use an m100 like jdh suggested
[09:44:50] <cradek> yeah, this is very silly
[09:45:22] <cradek> expecting that big monty-python foot any moment
[09:45:47] <jdh> M1xx would be simple to implement so you don't waste as much time trying to generate an ineffective solution.
[09:46:21] <zq> dude, no need for the condescension. i had a really specific question at start, and then you insisted on knowing my real problem.
[09:46:25] <zq> cradek: ^
[09:46:27] <pcw_home> Great, now I have the Monty Python theme music stuck in my head
[09:46:33] <jdh> heh
[09:47:02] <zq> just because lcnc isn't capable of it doesn't make it silly
[09:47:08] <zq> that's a pretty narrow worldview
[09:47:14] <JT-Shop> lol
[09:47:23] <_methods> hah
[09:47:44] * _methods gigglez
[09:47:59] <archivist> and a picture of a nude playing a piano on the beach
[09:49:02] <pcw_home> Aaargh
[09:52:45] <malcom2073> Why not just PWM a normal fan?
[09:53:09] <cradek> actually it was archivist who wanted to know the real problem, and it was smart of him to ask, because that's critical to helping someone (often people ask the wrong questions because they're thinking about the problem a certain way, and that leads the questions down a wrong and irrelevant path)
[09:53:25] <archivist> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TRU6tQdyYqQ
[09:54:17] <cradek> anyway, sorry for snarking so much.
[09:54:18] <zq> it was completely irrelevant, not smart
[09:55:07] <cradek> that depends on your perspective. helping someone to do something that makes no sense is often not very rewarding (for either party)
[09:55:14] <zq> i know exactly what i was asking except chose to indulge his irrelevant request
[09:55:22] <cradek> you can certainly run a stepper with a stepgen in velocity mode if you want to
[09:55:42] <cradek> that's not hard at all
[09:55:47] <archivist> an expensive slow fan drive
[09:55:59] <zq> again, it makes no sense to you, not universally. why are you so naive?
[09:56:14] <zq> and no, you can't run a stepgen axis in velocity mode
[09:56:19] <zq> not controllably
[09:56:28] <zq> m7/m8 doesn't even make sense if you think about it
[09:56:46] <cradek> ?
[09:56:47] <malcom2073> I've seen so much monty python, but that video makes me feel like there is so much more yet to see, makes me happy
[09:57:00] <archivist> you were not listening to me M67
[09:57:21] <syyl_ws> #Stepgen Velocity Modus
[09:57:21] <syyl_ws> setp hm2_5i20.0.stepgen.00.control-type 1
[09:57:31] <syyl_ws> i think i run my stepgens in vel mode for some time...
[09:58:27] <zq> archivist: i kinda stopped listening to you after your absurd little request. maybe if you had started off with m67...
[09:58:56] <malcom2073> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=83gPaewIKOY
[09:59:01] <zq> syyl_ws: what's stepgen.00.velocity-cmd attached to?
[09:59:10] <malcom2073> You could use a pwm signal to control the frequency of a circuit like that!
[09:59:17] <malcom2073> Complete with 80's music
[10:00:24] <JT-Shop> most of us stopped reading...
[10:03:54] <malcom2073> Oh man this lead me down a fairly amusing youtube rabbit hole
[10:05:29] <jdh> did you end up with cats, fails, or semi-nude women?
[10:05:37] <Deejay> lol
[10:05:38] <malcom2073> I wound up at Free energy
[10:05:47] <jdh> so, fails.
[10:05:51] <Deejay> even worse ;)
[10:05:53] <malcom2073> Of course
[10:06:32] <malcom2073> Is it really a failure, if it made me laugh?
[10:06:32] <malcom2073> :)
[10:09:04] <cradek> I ended up at breadmaking
[10:09:30] <JT-Shop> I ended up cutting up cardboard fillers
[10:16:39] <mrsun> youtube rabbit holes <3
[10:51:41] * Loetmichel just made a little cablerack to hang the multimeter wires in... -> http://www.cyrom.org/palbum/main.php?g2_itemId=15517
[10:55:14] <zeeshan|2> 100 amp sub panel #3 live + neutral wires
[10:55:18] <zeeshan|2> but people say #6 for ground wire?
[10:55:26] <zeeshan|2> where in the nec are they getting this info about the ground
[10:55:31] <zeeshan|2> (copper)
[10:56:29] <JT-Shop> ask people
[10:56:56] <archivist> there is some stupidity in modern stuff with ground wire sizes, it has to stand all the potential current to ensure the fuse fails and no ground cable fault
[11:02:14] <malcom2073> That makes sense, if both short to ground, you want the fuse on either/both to fail before the ground wire melts
[11:03:02] <malcom2073> Assuming by live, you means both phases of 240.. Begs the question: What if they both short to neutral
[11:03:05] <archivist> but the calculations over here involve the power station amps!
[11:04:05] <malcom2073> Or rather, you use them near capacity, not enough to break the fuse on either line, but enough to melt the neutral wire
[11:04:26] <malcom2073> Is that possible?
[11:07:01] <malcom2073> Oh wait, in a subpanel, do you tie neutral to the panel ground, or do you run neutral back to the main panel to be bonded to ground there?
[11:07:41] <roycroft> neutral and ground wires must be isolated in a subpanel
[11:07:50] <malcom2073> Yeah, just googling that :)
[11:08:15] <malcom2073> So do your subpanel (assuming two phase) main wires have to be fused for the neutral wire size, or for the individual live wire sizes?
[11:08:39] <malcom2073> Curiositywise, not asking for actual electrical installation advice here :P
[11:11:21] <malcom2073> http://diy.stackexchange.com/questions/39008/why-is-the-neutral-wire-the-same-size-as-hot-wire-in-a-3c-cable
[11:11:25] <malcom2073> Answers my question.
[11:12:09] <malcom2073> Current cancels out. 25A on one 110 to N line, and 10A on the other 110 to N line, means 15A on the neutral line
[11:12:10] <alex____w> ac is fun
[11:12:12] <malcom2073> It is
[11:14:45] <malcom2073> Apparently it's against code to have a 240V plug, and a 110V plug on the same device heh
[11:15:01] <malcom2073> Should run 240V 3+ground wire, and split it internally
[11:26:40] <Connor> Yo Yo.. What's up folks.
[11:26:55] <Connor> Life sucks in the RV. But at least I have internet and my TV setup.
[11:28:43] <jdh> beats many alternatives
[11:29:00] <jdh> winter construction seems to take much longer though
[11:30:49] <Connor> jdh You alternatives?
[11:34:03] <jdh> tent
[11:34:10] <jdh> in-laws
[11:34:27] <jdh> craque-house motel
[11:35:17] <Connor> yea well wife thinks RV in side yard too much like camping.....
[11:35:46] <jdh> for how long?
[11:36:09] <Connor> 2 weeks starting this past saturday
[11:36:32] <jdh> that's not too bad
[11:36:48] <Connor> maybe more dunno yet
[11:42:43] <zeeshan|2> any of you run aluminum wire? :P
[11:43:42] <Jymmm> "only ONCE"
[11:43:58] <alex____w> wait, are we back in the 60s?
[11:44:00] <archivist> before the fire
[11:44:06] <alex____w> i didn't think anyone did aluminum wire since then really
[11:44:42] <Jymmm> zeeshan|2: you're not seriously thinking about it, are you?
[11:44:45] <zeeshan|2> i am
[11:44:58] <Jymmm> Well, it was nice knowing oyu.
[11:45:02] <zeeshan|2> betwen my sub panel and main panel
[11:45:12] <malcom2073> I hear it's ok if you have no copper in your house
[11:45:13] <Jymmm> NEVER EVER mix copper/aluminum
[11:45:13] <malcom2073> at all
[11:45:14] <malcom2073> anywhere
[11:45:24] <zeeshan|2> how is that mixing copper and aluminum
[11:45:25] <zeeshan|2> :P
[11:45:46] <archivist> electrolytic corrosion
[11:46:00] <zeeshan|2> the terminals at the breaker and at the lugs
[11:46:04] <zeeshan|2> are rated for cu/al ?
[11:46:19] <malcom2073> Not at the same time I think
[11:46:33] <zeeshan|2> thats why the / <- or
[11:46:34] <zeeshan|2> :D
[11:46:43] <zeeshan|2> you usually only have 1 wire at a terminal to begin with :P
[11:46:47] <Jymmm> zeeshan|2: You know, I straight out admit I'm a pyro (not arsonist), but there are things that I would never mess with. Aluminum wiring of any kind would be one of them.
[11:46:55] <CaptHindsight> what if the contact area is completely sealed?
[11:47:04] <zeeshan|2> CaptHindsight: yea like using these:
[11:47:11] <zeeshan|2> http://www.homedepot.ca/product/aluminum-to-copper-wire-connectors-8-pkg/860148
[11:47:54] <Jymmm> till it breaks down
[11:48:08] <Jymmm> HAHA.... 90 day warranty
[11:48:09] <zeeshan|2> 280$ for 3-3-3-6 wire
[11:48:21] <zeeshan|2> or 120$ for 1-1-1-3 al wire
[11:48:26] <zeeshan|2> :)
[11:48:39] <Jymmm> They won't even guarntee their own product
[11:48:54] <Jymmm> that's gotta tell ya something.
[11:49:00] <zeeshan|2> In some states of the United States, home hazard insurance do not cover homes with any aluminum wiring, and some insurance companies that claim to cover it charge a higher premium than for homes with copper wiring.
[11:49:04] <zeeshan|2> okay cu it is
[11:49:24] <malcom2073> Pay the extra. Nothing like waking up to a face full of flames to save a hundred bucks
[11:49:43] <Loetmichel> Jymmm: may i remind you that high votage overlasn connection are made PURELY from aluminium wire?
[11:49:49] <CaptHindsight> zeeshan|2: what size aluminum wire?
[11:49:51] <Jymmm> zeeshan|2: Yeah, ya cheap bastard!
[11:49:55] <archivist> I had some al jump leads, they were crap
[11:49:55] <Loetmichel> (with steel core for strength)
[11:49:59] <zeeshan|2> CaptHindsight: 1 awg
[11:50:28] <Jymmm> Loetmichel: I don't care.
[11:50:37] <zeeshan|2> the mains coming to my main panel are aluminum
[11:50:44] <zeeshan|2> from the electrical company
[11:51:25] <CaptHindsight> yeah, no problem
[11:51:46] <CaptHindsight> there were issues decades ago with aluminum wiring in homes
[11:51:56] <CaptHindsight> the stigma lives on
[11:52:41] <zeeshan|2> " People get all worked up about aluminum because of its issues (when improperly done) for switches and outlets. These same issues don't exist between panels, or disconnects, for that matter. "
[11:52:43] <zeeshan|2> internet quote
[11:53:03] <malcom2073> My grandfather had a wall of his house catch fire, when they did the addition back in the 80's they used aluminum wire where the rest of the house is copper, and it caught fire 10 years ago. Probably done wrong, but yeah it's dangerous when done wrong. Slightly more so than copper when done wrong :P
[11:53:48] <CaptHindsight> http://www.cpsc.gov//PageFiles/118856/516.pdf background on the problems
[11:54:16] <malcom2073> That's ok, a buddy of mine has knob and tube in his house :/
[11:54:24] <pcw_home> I learned that cheap cat5 cable is often CCA (copper clad aluminum)
[11:55:15] <CaptHindsight> there's a town nearby that still requires all electrical connections to be soldered
[11:55:24] <zeeshan|2> looks like these things were failing at the joints..
[11:55:27] <zeeshan|2> not at the terminals.
[11:56:04] <pcw_home> Knob and tube will outlast that new-fangled plastic insulation
[11:56:22] <malcom2073> pcw_home: True
[11:56:51] <pcw_home> might miss such niceties as grounded outlets though
[11:59:22] <Loetmichel> knob and tube?
[12:00:04] <archivist> those twist caps?
[12:01:57] <pcw_home> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Knob_and_tube_wiring
[12:02:44] <archivist> ew, never seen that over here
[12:03:04] <zeeshan|2> wait
[12:03:07] <zeeshan|2> is that a plastic tube?
[12:03:21] <mozmck> read the article
[12:03:22] <archivist> we had wooden trunking in the beginning
[12:03:24] <zeeshan|2> no
[12:03:28] <zeeshan|2> tell me now!
[12:03:43] <zeeshan|2> porcelian
[12:03:44] <zeeshan|2> lol
[12:03:49] <zeeshan|2> lemme get my hammer out
[12:04:10] <pcw_home> unlike plastic Lasts forever
[12:04:12] <zeeshan|2> that is cool!
[12:04:21] <zeeshan|2> i love the the knife switches
[12:04:31] <zeeshan|2> it's no fu n till you see the arcing
[12:05:18] <tjtr33> http://support.ctc-control.com/customer/elearning/registered/servoBasicsForTheLayman.pdf
[12:05:18] <tjtr33> good read on control system basics. i was hunting for freq response of a system vs the position update loop speed ( bode plots )
[12:07:21] <zeeshan|2> about my earlier question about #6 ground
[12:07:27] <zeeshan|2> i think theyre geting it from table 250.122 nec
[12:07:41] <zeeshan|2> that table actually says #8 copper for 100A service :P
[12:20:41] <CaptHindsight> wouldn't wiring be safer if it was all run on the outside of walls where you can keep an eye on them?
[12:22:16] <archivist> then the mice could eat it and cause fires
[12:26:26] <CaptHindsight> set up a Dept/Ministry of Home Security, everyone is safer when everything is watched :)
[12:30:20] <mrsun> heh ... was only 2mm wire i had put on the machine ... so after stiffening it had a dial indicator on the beam and it tightened until it held a high pitched e .. then blam it snapped :P
[12:32:01] <mrsun> oh well, upgrade to 3mm tomorrow ... =)
[12:41:50] <demo> hello folks. I'm looking for a Linuc drip feed DNC program. Anyone know of anything like that?
[12:43:01] <demo> i did find a link to a program called DNC-x, written by ther guys who do easy dnc for windows
[12:43:22] <demo> but it fails to execute
[12:44:50] <alex____w> why do you want to drip feed?
[12:45:22] <demo> i do IT for a machine shop, they have a bunch of CNC machines. That is just always how they have done it
[12:45:30] <demo> is there a better way?
[12:45:44] <alex____w> oh, so these machines aren't using LinuxCNC for their controls
[12:45:48] <alex____w> they are using some other control software
[12:45:58] <alex____w> drip feeding is common if the control has limited storage and can't handle big programs
[12:46:23] <archivist> probably be old machines
[12:46:24] <demo> so i can use LinuxCNC opposed to drip feeding?
[12:46:30] <demo> maybe?>
[12:46:48] <alex____w> converting from an old control to LinuxCNC can be a massive undertaking, it's unlikely what your machinists want
[12:46:51] <archivist> linuxcnc would be retrofit
[12:47:04] <cradek> linuxcnc is a machine control
[12:47:07] <alex____w> i'm converting a Hurco VMC now and I'm about 120 man hours in
[12:47:45] <demo> okay, good to know. What a bummer. I was hoping with ther end of XP, I'd be able to find a open source DNC on Linux
[12:47:46] <cradek> it can easily load your program all at once, so there is no need to drip feed
[12:48:27] <demo> i'll put it in the R&D pile then, sounds like a very powerful option for us, but not what I am looking for currently
[12:48:30] <cradek> don't you just feed gcode out a serial port?
[12:48:38] <demo> thanks for the info guys, have a great day
[12:48:39] <cradek> that's certainly not hard
[12:48:45] <cradek> cheers
[12:48:46] <demo> i think it might
[12:48:56] <demo> just drop gcode out the serial
[12:49:01] <archivist> any old tty util on linux
[12:49:06] <demo> shouldn't be too hard to whip something up
[12:49:59] <archivist> just make sure you get the handshake setup correctly
[12:50:12] <archivist> crash....
[12:50:51] <cradek> someone needs to 3d-print paper tape
[12:51:20] <archivist> hehe
[12:51:45] <cradek> better if you can melt and reextrude it after the reader
[12:53:41] <archivist> dont joke, there was an outside broadcast system that coated film and developed it in the truck, scanned it (flying spot) and recoated it sending it back up to the external film camera
[12:54:08] <Tom_itx> drip feed... never heard it put that way before
[12:54:08] <cradek> that's a common term
[12:54:16] <Tom_itx> we just called it DNC
[12:54:17] <archivist> german 1930's
[12:54:34] <Tom_itx> i did one using realterm once
[12:54:41] <Tom_itx> it worked ok
[12:55:04] <Tom_itx> i've got a couple others from cam packages that work
[13:02:15] <archivist> cradek, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Intermediate_film_system
[13:04:23] <cradek> cool hack!
[13:04:31] <cradek> this one says the film was kept
[13:05:05] <archivist> I could scan some pictures in a book here and expand that article, the book I have has 10 pages on the system
[13:08:20] <archivist> one time use was in the beginning they went to a loop later
[13:08:37] <archivist> thus using less material
[13:08:38] <cradek> archivist: you should!
[13:10:27] <cradek> was this for baird (mechanical) tvs? 36-37 seems late for those
[13:11:55] <cradek> calling it a "camera lens" is kind of weird if so
[13:21:09] <archivist> cradek, scanned that section of the book http://www.collection.archivist.info/archive/DJC/BK/BK119/
[13:21:15] <pcw_home> reminds me of Eidophor projectors, amazingly complicated tech at the time
[13:23:06] <cradek> I didn't know flying spot/mechanical TVs and sound broadcasting overlapped
[13:23:50] <t12_> hah
[13:23:57] <t12_> thats like the linotype of video
[13:24:04] <cradek> exactly
[13:24:58] <Rab> A little closer to Monotype than Linotype, strictly speaking.
[13:25:41] <t12_> i used to sneak into abandoned buildings
[13:25:57] <t12_> so one day theres a locked door in the basement of this building which i gradually rip down
[13:26:02] <t12_> that leads down a long hallway
[13:26:07] <t12_> and theres walls and walls of lead type
[13:26:21] <t12_> and then a room with a fully functional and maintained hot type foundry
[13:26:48] <t12_> it ended up being a tunnel between the abandoned building and an active building, where there was a restored foundry
[13:26:50] <zeeshan|2> theoretical question: if the neutral wire from the transformer to my main panel failed
[13:26:56] <t12_> it was definately a strange moment of like
[13:26:56] <zeeshan|2> wouldn't that make my main panel live?
[13:26:59] <t12_> wtf have ai walked into
[13:27:26] <Rab> t12_, awesome
[13:28:19] <cradek> zeeshan|2: your main panel should still be earthed in that case
[13:43:01] <cradek> archivist: and they had a receiver that did the opposite! amazing.
[13:43:04] <cradek> thanks for sharing this stuff
[13:43:50] <zeeshan|2> i dont see the point of bonding neutral and earth at the panel
[13:43:55] <zeeshan|2> it must be only for lightning strikes
[13:44:02] <zeeshan|2> not for shock prevention
[13:44:17] <zeeshan|2> it s so the lightning strike goes directly to ground not through all your electrical stuff
[13:44:31] <cradek> nah, it's for safety
[13:44:44] <zeeshan|2> in what situation?
[13:44:49] <cradek> you're on the end of a transformer, so your whole house is isolated from the grid
[13:45:05] <cradek> it's only your ground that keeps your house's potential near the earth's
[13:45:52] <zeeshan|2> lets say it didnt exist
[13:46:01] <zeeshan|2> what would the potential difference end up being?
[13:46:04] <CaptHindsight> zeeshan|2: often enough the ground on the power co's transformer opens
[13:46:08] <cradek> anything
[13:46:26] <zeeshan|2> but the legs of the transformer are only giving you 240vac
[13:46:33] <CaptHindsight> you could see 13KV from the outlet to say your kitchen faucet
[13:46:38] <zeeshan|2> you have transformer isolation?
[13:46:58] <Tom_itx> zeeshan|2 i think you should run it all from batteries
[13:47:03] <zeeshan|2> Tom_itx: hahaha
[13:47:10] <zeeshan|2> no im just trying understand it
[13:47:14] <zeeshan|2> i know you do it at the panel
[13:47:24] <zeeshan|2> but id like to be solid on the reasoning
[13:47:30] <zeeshan|2> main panel i mean
[13:47:38] <CaptHindsight> so cities require a ground rod properly driven into earth at the point of service entry as well as internally to a water pipe
[13:47:44] <CaptHindsight> so/some
[13:48:19] <CaptHindsight> most just require the panel ground to be bonded to a water piper before the meter
[13:48:41] <CaptHindsight> it depends on the local code
[13:48:48] <Tom_itx> too much plastic pipe nowdays
[13:49:20] <CaptHindsight> then they would require a ground rod
[13:49:42] <Tom_itx> i drove a 10' rod by the pannel when i put in new service
[13:50:14] <Tom_itx> before that i don't think there was one but then i removed a box with screw in fuses :D
[13:51:07] <CaptHindsight> the rules often seem strange but many are due to lessons learned about safety over the past >100 years
[13:51:16] <CaptHindsight> odd things happen
[13:51:44] <Tom_itx> i'm wondering if an odd thing happened to mine. i still can't figure out what happened
[13:52:19] <Tom_itx> makes me nervous to install the new boards when they arrive
[13:52:39] <CaptHindsight> check everything with a meter
[13:52:55] <Tom_itx> it'd been working for a good 6-8 mo
[13:53:03] <Tom_itx> then all the 5v blew out
[13:53:07] <Tom_itx> the 5v reg is good
[13:53:15] <Tom_itx> shows 4.97 v
[13:53:25] <CaptHindsight> or ask someone else to, often you don't see your own mistakes, like proofreading your own writing
[13:53:28] <zeeshan|2> i dont get it still :-(
[13:53:29] <zeeshan|2> im slow
[13:53:51] <Tom_itx> CaptHindsight yeah i agree with that practice
[13:54:13] <_methods> amen
[13:54:13] <zeeshan|2> Tom_itx: measure resistance between ground
[13:54:20] <zeeshan|2> @ cnc control and rod
[13:54:30] <Tom_itx> i'll check it wire at a time agian
[13:54:34] <Tom_itx> again*
[13:54:57] <Tom_itx> zeeshan|2, the rod is at the house entrance pannel, the cnc is in the garage
[13:55:00] <CaptHindsight> zeeshan|2: you can have 240V across the secondaries (leg to leg) of a 13KV power co transformer, but either leg can also be 13KV from a secondary leg to ground
[13:55:17] <CaptHindsight> thats why the transformer gets grounded
[13:55:32] <CaptHindsight> and each service gets grounded
[13:55:49] <Tom_itx> i'm tempted to put a rod in by the garage sub pannel
[13:55:54] <zeeshan|2> wait what?
[13:56:02] <zeeshan|2> the 13kV primaries are connected to the secondary leg to ground?
[13:56:12] <zeeshan|2> i didnt get that :P
[13:56:35] <zeeshan|2> Tom_itx: i was researching about the rule about having a seperate ground rod (why its needed) for a detached garage
[13:56:35] <CaptHindsight> zeeshan|2: if you step back far enough and see how the power transformers can be connected
[13:56:41] <zeeshan|2> its based on the fact that if you have too much resistance on it
[13:56:47] <zeeshan|2> it stops acting like a easy ground path..
[13:57:03] <CaptHindsight> you're just looking at from the transformer to your service entrance
[13:57:06] <zeeshan|2> they say if its more than 25ohms between your load ground and where the ground goes from main panel to earth
[13:57:12] <zeeshan|2> then you need to definitely run a seperate ground rod
[13:57:22] <zeeshan|2> CaptHindsight: mine are underground
[13:57:27] <zeeshan|2> well behind a green cover
[13:58:03] <Tom_itx> i'm also wondering if a linear regulator would be better for the 5v supply than the current SMPS i'm using
[13:58:13] <zeeshan|2> http://s.hswstatic.com/gif/power-parts.gif
[13:58:27] <Tom_itx> i don't remember how much input V those can take
[13:58:32] <zeeshan|2> i see a wire going to the ground wire of the pole
[13:58:40] <zeeshan|2> from the ground coming from the house? :p
[13:59:05] <Rab> Tom_itx, linear regulator is usually a better choice if you need low noise.
[13:59:25] <Tom_itx> i don't think it was a noise issue really
[13:59:36] <Tom_itx> but i don't know what it was... so it could have been
[14:00:00] <zeeshan|2> only your mesa blew up?
[14:00:05] <Tom_itx> yeah
[14:00:06] <Tom_itx> both
[14:00:11] <Tom_itx> 5v only
[14:00:24] <zeeshan|2> its gotta be something to do with that 5v supply
[14:00:36] <zeeshan|2> its like it surged or something
[14:00:39] <Tom_itx> the sserial board still looks ok but i'm gonna check it
[14:00:50] <Tom_itx> gotta go...
[14:00:52] <Tom_itx> bak later
[14:01:04] <zeeshan|2> CaptHindsight: explain more!
[14:03:53] <zeeshan|2> http://www.annsgarden.com/poles/JP0-PS-Schematic.jpg
[14:04:13] <zeeshan|2> what two points will be at a potential difference of 13kV in that diagram
[14:04:21] <zeeshan|2> if the ground wasn't bonded to neutral
[14:05:01] <zeeshan|2> i can see that there would be a potential difference of 240v if it wasn't bonded :P
[14:05:16] <zeeshan|2> 230v or 115v..
[14:07:33] <CaptHindsight> float the grounds
[14:07:55] <CaptHindsight> you pic is when everything is connected properly
[14:07:59] <zeeshan|2> yes
[14:08:02] <zeeshan|2> but float only 1 ground
[14:08:12] <zeeshan|2> the one for "power compancy single phase secondary"
[14:08:17] <CaptHindsight> add some corrosion, animals, weather etc
[14:08:21] <zeeshan|2> then i see a potential diff of 240v, 115v
[14:08:40] <zeeshan|2> if the three phase primary ground is floated
[14:09:12] <zeeshan|2> there is a potential diff of 13kV between phase a,b,c, & earth
[14:09:18] <zeeshan|2> i dunno :P
[14:09:23] <zeeshan|2> i give up
[14:12:44] <CaptHindsight> http://imagebin.ca/v/1nFDYJlWwrcA epoxy with only ~2% aluminum fill, Shore 86D
[14:13:18] <_methods> hmm
[14:13:30] <_methods> what kind of epoxy?
[14:15:11] <CaptHindsight> thats a photopolymer that cure from UV to blue/green light
[14:15:54] <_methods> shock sensitive?
[14:16:19] <_methods> 86 on shore d is pretty damn hard
[14:16:31] <CaptHindsight> Bisphenol A , no it has a bit of flex still
[14:17:06] <_methods> interesting
[14:17:07] <CaptHindsight> but I can't snap that piece in tow with my hands
[14:17:14] <CaptHindsight> tow.two
[14:18:49] <CaptHindsight> strong enough to make laptop and cell phone enclosures
[14:19:08] <tjtr33> measure resistance to ground: get out the megger!
[14:19:53] <CaptHindsight> I can vary the bulk resistance
[14:22:11] <CaptHindsight> with some carbon blacks I have Shore 95D and a few ohms across a part that size
[14:25:12] <tjtr33> re grounding: http://www.weschler.com/_upload/sitepdfs/techref/gettingdowntoearth.pdf wth someone took the name megger and trademarked it.
[14:26:52] <zeeshan|2> hehe
[14:37:51] <zeeshan|2> http://www.emfs.info/wp-content/uploads/2013/08/pme-explanation-us1.gif
[14:37:55] <zeeshan|2> capt i think you were talkking about this.
[14:38:16] <zeeshan|2> okay now that makes a lot more sense.
[14:50:19] <zeeshan|2> okay 2 reasons i finally think i understand about why you dont bond a sub panel:
[14:50:36] <zeeshan|2> 1. lightning strike
[14:51:14] <zeeshan|2> 2. by bonding at the sub panel too, you provide a parallel path for the current to travel back. using v=ir , voltage will be generated (potential difference).
[14:51:52] <zeeshan|2> but in the case of bonding @ the main panel, the resistance is so great (earth is supposed to be a big ass resistor), that little to no potential difference will exist
[14:52:14] * zeeshan|2 ends rant
[14:57:27] <zeeshan|2> now that im thinking about this
[14:57:34] <zeeshan|2> technically instead of running ground wires back to your main panel
[14:57:46] <zeeshan|2> you should be able to stick a 8 foot 6061 rod into the ground
[14:57:51] <zeeshan|2> and connect each circuit directly there :P
[15:00:49] <jdh> why 6061 instead of a normal ground rod?
[15:03:33] <zeeshan|2> copper works too :P
[15:03:52] <zeeshan|2> http://artisanelectric.net/blog/wp-content/uploads/2010/01/2009-04-27_014.jpg-driving-ground-rod.jpg
[15:03:58] <zeeshan|2> imagine doing this for each circuit of your house
[15:04:00] <zeeshan|2> haha that would suck.
[15:09:42] <CaptHindsight> zeeshan|2: yes, step back and see more of the complete circuit
[15:10:04] <witnit_> i think is probably the worst possible way to drive ground rod haahhaha
[15:10:25] <zeeshan|2> i dont think that hammer is big enough :)
[15:10:49] <zeeshan|2> seeing the importance of earth ground
[15:10:59] <CaptHindsight> lol, he could just push it in with the bucket
[15:11:00] <zeeshan|2> i kinda wanna put a secondary ground rod
[15:11:17] <zeeshan|2> and put a thick ass gauge
[15:11:20] <CaptHindsight> ground loops is in the next class :)
[15:11:23] <zeeshan|2> like 3/0
[15:11:31] <zeeshan|2> yea you'll have a ground loop
[15:11:53] <zeeshan|2> you naturally have it to begin with if you look at that other pic i posted
[15:12:00] <CaptHindsight> yes
[15:12:02] <zeeshan|2> each neighbour is earthed from the same transformer
[15:12:06] <zeeshan|2> than the transformer is earthed
[15:12:08] <CaptHindsight> another discussion
[15:12:09] <zeeshan|2> its a havoc :D
[15:12:45] <witnit_> here was my solution, use lathe, make stop collar with bolt in the side and slide it over the ground rod. lock down the collar and put black pipe over the rod and pound it in. loosen the collar, move it up 6 inhes and pound some more
[15:13:32] <zeeshan|2> well the make that hand auger tool for it
[15:13:42] <zeeshan|2> lemme see if i can find a pic
[15:13:44] <zeeshan|2> ive seen it being used before
[15:14:00] <zeeshan|2> https://www.salisburybyhoneywell.com/CatalogImages/9-screwgrndrod_2103_large.PNG
[15:14:01] <zeeshan|2> that thing
[15:14:02] <witnit_> yeah but that sounds a bit expensive
[15:14:16] <zeeshan|2> well im sure you have all that stuff
[15:14:21] <zeeshan|2> use a big ass wood drill bit
[15:14:26] <witnit_> yeah
[15:14:31] <zeeshan|2> attach it to a rod and t handle
[15:14:35] <witnit_> true
[15:14:38] <zeeshan|2> more work than your method though :P
[15:14:48] <zeeshan|2> less energy expired during pounding
[15:15:04] <zeeshan|2> expired = exerted
[15:15:14] <witnit_> yeah, and you dont wreck the top of the rod by mushrooming it out
[15:16:39] <zeeshan|2> so if mother earth decided to start generated electricity
[15:16:43] <zeeshan|2> we'd all be screwed
[15:16:49] <witnit_> i guess it probably depends if you can even pound it in the ground
[15:16:51] <zeeshan|2> generating
[15:17:39] <zeeshan|2> is a body of water a big ass resistor too? :p
[15:18:07] <zeeshan|2> "It is known that the theoretical maximum electrical resistivity for water is approximately 182 kO m at 25 �C. "
[15:18:11] <zeeshan|2> hm
[15:18:13] <CaptHindsight> http://www.agrisupply.com/product.aspx?p=31500 these work well enough
[15:18:26] <CaptHindsight> Fence Post Driver $20
[15:19:18] <zeeshan|2> ha. a boat seems to use a floating ground
[15:19:24] <zeeshan|2> http://newcontent.westmarine.com/content/wm-img/WestAdvisor/articles/Marine-Grounding-1.jpg
[15:19:26] <Jymmm> CaptHindsight: + $80 to hire the kid to use it =)
[15:19:48] <alex____w> no, they ground to the water
[15:19:52] <CaptHindsight> Jymmm: for the month :)
[15:20:19] <zeeshan|2> whoops thats a dc supply.
[15:20:20] <zeeshan|2> not ac
[15:20:21] <alex____w> which is also tied to battery negative and shore power ground when the boat is pluggedinto shore
[15:20:40] <CaptHindsight> floating floating ground
[15:20:45] <zeeshan|2> haha
[15:21:30] <zeeshan|2> maybe the whales and dolphins hear the ground loops
[15:21:36] <zeeshan|2> thats why they follow the boats around
[15:21:37] <alex____w> miswired boats cause problems a lot, so many boats have what is called a galvonic isolator which is basically a big power diode in ground that makes it do nothing unless there is a >2v (or whatever) potential difference
[15:22:05] <alex____w> when the boat is out in use there is generally no ac, just dc
[15:22:19] <zeeshan|2> alex_jon1: are you sure?
[15:22:22] <CaptHindsight> zeeshan|2: nah, you toss one bit of food overboard and they follow you
[15:22:23] <zeeshan|2> they dont have induction motors?
[15:22:43] <zeeshan|2> by boat im thinking of cargo ships
[15:22:48] <zeeshan|2> not a small boat :P
[15:22:57] <alex____w> okay, since you linked to west marine i thought you were talking about small boats
[15:23:02] <zeeshan|2> ah
[15:23:09] <alex____w> nothing that west marine sells is really useful on a cargo ship
[15:23:20] <zeeshan|2> that was a random google link
[15:23:25] <jdh> nothing west marine sells is reasonably priced
[15:23:43] <zeeshan|2> http://www.cathelco.com/userfiles/ShaftEarthingdiagram%202.jpg
[15:23:45] <zeeshan|2> this is kinda interesting
[15:23:54] <Jymmm> CaptHindsight: well I was thinking college kid, but $80/mo for a 13yo, eh, sure, why not =)
[15:23:56] <alex____w> yes, west marine is generally junk all around
[15:23:56] <zeeshan|2> erosion of the prop shaft
[15:23:57] <zeeshan|2> hahaha
[15:24:16] <alex____w> galvanic corrosion is a big deal on boats big and small
[15:25:23] <CaptHindsight> Jymmm: maybe 13+, they need to be strong enough to carry the tools, the younger kids are better for small precision work with their little fingers
[15:25:38] <Jymmm> CaptHindsight: ah, true.
[15:26:06] <witnit_> MC500 what model is that new board?
[15:26:08] <CaptHindsight> I still can't say that with a straight face :)
[15:53:47] <Computer_Barf> i dont know the correct term for it, but I took the head off my g0704, then took off the sliding part off the z axis that the gibs go in , when I put it back on it seems much tigher than it was before.
[15:54:23] <Computer_Barf> idk if maybe it needs to be moved up and down a bit to settle in or just figured i would ask.
[15:57:25] <Tom_itx> zeeshan|2 did you get it all figured out?
[15:57:33] <zeeshan|2> the ground?
[15:57:42] <Tom_itx> you should run a silver ground rod to keep the weirwolf's away too
[15:57:51] <zeeshan|2> haha
[15:58:57] <Tom_itx> i can't hardly see where i'd get a fault between the control and my PC. the only link between the two is the parallel port
[15:59:06] <zeeshan|2> you cant
[15:59:11] <zeeshan|2> the only course is the 5v
[15:59:17] <zeeshan|2> course = 5v
[15:59:21] <Tom_itx> another bud seems to think so
[15:59:27] <zeeshan|2> if somehow the primary side jumped to the secondary side
[15:59:28] <zeeshan|2> somehow.
[15:59:30] <Tom_itx> my 5v comes from my pannel
[15:59:32] <zeeshan|2> it would explain.
[15:59:35] <Tom_itx> off the transformer
[16:00:06] <Tom_itx> i centertapped one of my transformers to get 24v that feeds the SMPS
[16:00:21] <zeeshan|2> that same transformer has the 5v?
[16:00:32] <zeeshan|2> different winding of it
[16:00:35] <Tom_itx> the SMPS is 5v
[16:00:42] <zeeshan|2> okay lemme clarify
[16:00:46] <zeeshan|2> SMPS 5v -> mesa hardware power
[16:00:50] <Tom_itx> yup
[16:00:53] <zeeshan|2> primary -> smps 5v
[16:00:57] <zeeshan|2> 110v
[16:01:21] <Tom_itx> 110v primary, 48v secondary 24v centertap
[16:01:37] <Tom_itx> 48v was too much to feed the SMPS
[16:01:42] <zeeshan|2> 24v -> smps
[16:01:43] <zeeshan|2> gotcha
[16:01:53] <zeeshan|2> thats even more safer?
[16:02:05] <Tom_itx> i don't know
[16:02:05] <zeeshan|2> are you relying on a v-reg to drop the voltage down to 5v?
[16:02:18] <Tom_itx> well, that's what they do
[16:02:54] <zeeshan|2> voltage reg part #?
[16:02:56] <alex____w> Computer_Barf: I have very little experience with the G0704, but on other machines I find that things don't go together in a way that makes them tighter than when they came apart
[16:03:08] <alex____w> could you have inserted the gib backwards? is it a tapered gib?
[16:03:56] <Computer_Barf> yes it appears tapered. I was releaved to see the term tapered gib online after noticing how crooked it was
[16:04:01] <Tom_itx> http://tom-itx.no-ip.biz:81/~webpage/misc_stuff/5v_switcher.jpg
[16:04:16] <Tom_itx> http://tom-itx.no-ip.biz:81/~webpage/misc_stuff/switcher.png
[16:04:17] <Computer_Barf> i can check to see if reversing it helps but I believed i had lined it up right
[16:06:34] <alex____w> it should be obvious, and the g0704 is so popular that it shouldn't be hard to find a head teardown photo set
[16:06:47] <Tom_itx> zeeshan|2, LM2596
[16:09:42] <zeeshan|2> 5v and 12v side share the same ground?
[16:09:51] * zeeshan|2 doesnt knwo smps that well :P
[16:10:07] <Tom_itx> GND is a common thing
[16:11:16] <Jymmm> so is sky
[16:11:24] <Tom_itx> i kinda hate to use a linear regulator because of the voltage drop
[16:11:34] <Tom_itx> would generate alot of heat
[16:12:29] <furrywolf> apparantly someone got electrocuted this morning at a relative's workplace... turns out the crane safety inspector managed to drive the manlift straight into their power lines. seriously, the one guy who really should have known better!
[16:13:15] <Tom_itx> was he giving a 'what not to do' safety demonstration?
[16:13:28] <furrywolf> not intentionally, I suspect.
[16:13:46] <furrywolf> however, I bet at that lesson, it'll be very effective.
[16:14:00] <furrywolf> might have been an osha employee, I'm not sure...
[16:14:14] <Jymmm> more like an end to a career
[16:14:28] <furrywolf> jymm: being dead is generally career-ending, yes.
[16:14:42] <Jymmm> I meant the crane operator
[16:15:02] <furrywolf> it was a single-person manlift. he was operating it himself.
[16:15:08] <Jymmm> and not really, just means you get a new employeer =)
[16:15:29] <furrywolf> he was performing a safety inspection, and drove it into the power lines.
[16:15:29] <Jymmm> maggot meat!
[16:15:52] <furrywolf> that's like all the gun safety instructors who manage to shoot themselves...
[16:16:39] <Jymmm> on video =)
[16:23:06] <furrywolf> lol! due to excessive trolling and flamewars, the local news outlet has changed their "comments" section on news articles to "the thunderdome".
[16:26:09] <zeeshan|2> !seen LeelooMinai
[16:26:09] <the_wench> last seen in #linuxcnc 2015-01-04 21:43:01GMT 48:22:56 ago, saying They mention some magic codes though
[16:26:31] <zeeshan|2> i wonder if her machine is running
[16:26:47] <norias> howdy
[16:27:16] <LeelooMinai> zeeshan|2: Waiting for extrusions for the table. But not decided anything aout the spindle yet.
[16:27:37] <zeeshan|2> youre gonna run multiple extrusions
[16:27:38] <zeeshan|2> as your table?
[16:27:50] <LeelooMinai> Yes, 3 by 1.5 ones
[16:27:53] <zeeshan|2> nice
[16:27:54] <zeeshan|2> thats a good idea
[16:28:00] <zeeshan|2> how much did it end up costing for that envelope
[16:28:16] <LeelooMinai> $200 or so
[16:28:21] <zeeshan|2> hehe
[16:28:40] <LeelooMinai> Well, what can I do - Canada is not as cheap as US
[16:28:51] <zeeshan|2> i could not find a local supplier for that stuff..
[16:28:55] <zeeshan|2> might save on shippin
[16:29:06] <furrywolf> more details. apparantly it was an inspection being done by a contractor.
[16:29:46] <LeelooMinai> zeeshan|2: I ordered from there: http://store.cpiautomation.com/ It's in Canad, so shiopping was not too crazy, $20 or so
[16:30:47] <zeeshan|2> "905.625.4805"
[16:30:56] <zeeshan|2> looks like theyre somewhere in the GTA or hamilton
[16:31:09] <zeeshan|2> book markedf
[16:31:15] <Deejay> gn8
[16:44:26] <Jymmm> Tom_itx: PONG
[16:45:43] <Jymmm> Tom_itx: If you were to guess, do you think 32x WS2812's could be controlled by an arduino tiny?
[16:49:58] <furrywolf> looking at the datasheet, I don't see why you couldn't drive an infinite number...
[16:50:34] <Jymmm> furrywolf: IT's a byte size limitation as I uderstand it. the megas can only do 250
[16:50:58] <furrywolf> bytes of what?
[16:51:07] <Jymmm> furrywolf: addressable space
[16:51:32] <furrywolf> if you're asking "do I have enough memory to send unique data to 32 of them", that I have no idea... but the devices themselves seem able to be daisy-chained indefinitely.
[16:51:54] <Jymmm> and that why I was asking Tom_itx =)
[16:52:03] <furrywolf> it's a serial protocol. you don't have an address for each led individually.
[16:52:17] <Jymmm> Actually, yes you do.
[16:52:31] <Jymmm> you can address EACH led individually
[16:53:17] <furrywolf> eh? according to the datasheet, each one just takes the first data it sees, then passes the rest on. if you simply wrote a 2-line loop that sent the same byte repeatedly, an infinite number of them would change to the same brightness...
[16:53:35] <furrywolf> the "address" is simply how far down the daisy chain you are.
[16:57:57] <furrywolf> I can't find a product called arduino tiny to look at the specs for. what cpu is it based around? attiny?
[16:59:48] <furrywolf> the attiny (at least the first one I found googling) has 512 bytes of ram, which should be plenty for controlling 32 LEDs, and even doing things mildly complex.
[17:00:15] <furrywolf> what do you plan on making the leds do?
[17:05:32] <furrywolf> ...
[17:06:00] <norias> it's a little late to be programming those christmas lights
[17:06:08] <furrywolf> ok, I'm going to go play with my mill instead of try to help someone who wanders off in the middle of a conversation. bbl.
[17:11:27] <robinsz> evening guise
[17:11:45] <witnit> good evening
[17:12:09] <robinsz> so .. there I was sitting are work .. "err ... the router won't come on" ... and sure enough, the controller which was turned off for Christmas has shat itself
[17:13:00] <robinsz> I forsee EMC and my collection of random Mesa cards are once again going to be involved ...
[17:13:34] <witnit> what do you mean?
[17:13:54] <robinsz> ? ...
[17:14:25] <norias> so.. yeah
[17:14:32] <norias> folks have mentioned these mesa cards
[17:14:36] <witnit> yeah
[17:14:38] <norias> the machine i have
[17:14:40] <robinsz> I mean the only way I am going to get the thing to work again is with EMC and some digging around int he box of Mesa cards lurking in the shed
[17:14:49] <witnit> i just ordered another one yesterday :)
[17:14:56] <norias> has brushed servos and drivers / amplifiers
[17:15:03] <robinsz> speaking of which ...
[17:15:06] <norias> do i really need the motion control ones
[17:15:13] <norias> or an anything i/o ?
[17:15:16] <witnit> what are you planning to do?
[17:15:24] <norias> oh, good point
[17:15:25] <robinsz> you'll need an "anything IO" fpga card
[17:15:28] <norias> cnc milling machine
[17:15:34] <witnit> okay yeah anything IO
[17:15:40] <norias> cool
[17:15:40] <witnit> dc brush servo amps?
[17:15:44] <norias> yeah
[17:15:45] <robinsz> then a 7133 analogue servo interface duaghter card
[17:15:50] <norias> hmm
[17:15:51] <witnit> encoder feedback?
[17:15:53] <norias> yes
[17:15:58] <witnit> limit switches?
[17:16:00] <norias> yes
[17:16:06] <witnit> sounds like everything to me
[17:16:14] <robinsz> youll need the 7137 for the limit switches
[17:16:14] <witnit> go mesa, IMO
[17:16:14] <norias> it's a cnc that the controller died in
[17:16:26] <robinsz> any of you guys in the UK?
[17:16:30] <norias> so, anything i/p
[17:16:34] <norias> and the 733
[17:16:37] <norias> and 7137
[17:16:46] <witnit> not so fast
[17:16:57] <witnit> there are many routes you can go
[17:17:03] <norias> hmm, ok
[17:17:23] <furrywolf> should I grind flats on my stepper shafts, or just crank the grub screw down?
[17:17:33] <robinsz> not all the mesa stuff is supported under emc though
[17:17:34] <norias> grind flats
[17:17:40] <norias> ahh, ok
[17:17:48] <robinsz> or drill and peg
[17:17:49] <witnit> for example 7I33 and the 7I90 when properly setup is VERY affordable
[17:18:04] <robinsz> so, no UK people?
[17:18:11] <witnit> are you willing to take the effort to understand how EMC works then you will be fine
[17:18:19] <robinsz> Im about to put a mill on eBay, if anyone is interested
[17:18:24] <witnit> yeah there are im sure, but they are building cncs right now
[17:18:46] <furrywolf> big flats, or little flats? heh. only way I have to do so is with an angle grinder...
[17:18:46] <norias> witnit: basically... i'm willing to learn it all
[17:19:01] <norias> and really, i'd like to learn to do some of the lower level control stuff in hardware
[17:19:02] <robinsz> just needs a drive amp rebuilding, I dont have time, so it will go on cheap for what it is
[17:19:13] <witnit> how would you like to communicate with the machine?
[17:19:15] <norias> but i want to get the machine up and running
[17:19:22] <witnit> what port on your computer do you want to use?
[17:19:35] <norias> i can dedicate a computer to it
[17:19:45] <norias> i don't have a care which port
[17:19:53] <witnit> pci, lpt, ethernet?
[17:20:05] <norias> i'm going to say pci
[17:20:06] <witnit> is cost an issue?
[17:20:14] <norias> cost is only slightly an issue
[17:20:28] <norias> keeping in mind i'll probably ditch the hardware eventually
[17:20:44] <witnit> do you want a simple easy to do setup with a GUI or will you handcode the configuration files?
[17:20:58] <norias> i'm going to say easy to setup
[17:21:03] <norias> so i can get up and running fast
[17:21:19] <norias> this step of the project is a quick and dirty throw away
[17:21:30] <norias> that ideally operates as a framework for me to redo it properly
[17:21:46] <witnit> there is a combo card they sell, should be pci then a cable then a daughtercard
[17:22:40] <norias> i'm taking this as a chance
[17:22:41] <witnit> the daughtercard will determine what kind of hardware you are hooking into
[17:22:46] <norias> to make a machine do what i want it to do
[17:22:55] <norias> but, i need the machine to run soon
[17:22:56] <norias> so, eh
[17:23:16] <robinsz> soon and emc are not often used in the same sentence ;)
[17:23:22] <norias> ha!
[17:23:28] <norias> i.e. this monthis
[17:23:30] <norias> h
[17:24:05] <JT-Shop> everyone "needs" their machine running yesterday
[17:24:08] <witnit> you could do it in a week if you have a good experience with linux
[17:24:16] <robinsz> if you are in the US you should get the cards easy enough, mesa often seem to run out though
[17:24:16] <norias> these anything i/o cards are pretty cheap
[17:24:20] <witnit> go look at pncconf
[17:24:28] <norias> i also have a haas that's running
[17:24:42] <norias> but, eh, i'd like to be able to say all my machines are up
[17:24:49] <norias> so, there's some wiggle room
[17:25:07] <witnit> http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?Pncconf
[17:25:11] <norias> i dig
[17:25:12] <witnit> just read that
[17:25:12] <norias> looking
[17:25:28] <witnit> and determine if you can hook little wires into little holes and screw them down
[17:25:31] <witnit> :)
[17:25:41] <norias> i think i can hack it
[17:25:42] <norias> thanks
[17:25:53] <witnit> pick the correct daughtercard
[17:26:10] <norias> by correct
[17:26:19] <witnit> the ones with the little green connector blocks on them are very nice if you are in a hurry
[17:26:20] <norias> do you mean one that seems to work with the servo drives?
[17:26:28] <witnit> yeah
[17:27:05] <robinsz> so one EMC question ... units
[17:27:24] <robinsz> is the current version of EMC any better at being set up in mm these days?
[17:28:02] <zeeshan|2> texas
[17:28:03] <zeeshan|2> er
[17:28:05] <witnit> i never knew there was an issue
[17:28:16] <robinsz> used to be a big problem
[17:28:21] <witnit> oh
[17:28:32] <norias> mesa's pricing is super reasonable
[17:28:54] <robinsz> certain parameters ended up not working very well in mm, as internally, it assumed various things were inches
[17:29:19] <robinsz> if mm are fine these days, I'll assume those problems hvae been fixed?
[17:29:30] <norias> there's nothing on the list
[17:29:35] <norias> that cracks $1,000
[17:29:39] <robinsz> nope
[17:29:59] <robinsz> $100 for your PCI card, $100 each for two daughter cards, you are done
[17:30:08] <norias> pretty bad ass
[17:30:16] <zeeshan|2> look at th e other controls
[17:30:16] <alex____w> i just configured a whole metric machine, we had no issues
[17:30:18] <zeeshan|2> theyre in the thousands.
[17:30:20] <zeeshan|2> and not open source
[17:30:26] <alex____w> it's actually american made machine, but metric. it was a nice surprise
[17:30:26] <norias> that's happening this week
[17:30:33] <robinsz> nice
[17:30:45] <robinsz> zeeshan|2, thats not necesrrily true
[17:30:49] <norias> i know, most motion control stuff is definitely in the $1,000's of dollars
[17:31:01] <zeeshan|2> robinsz: link to other controls
[17:31:05] <zeeshan|2> under 300$
[17:31:09] <zeeshan|2> well 200$
[17:31:09] <witnit> norias you can add more daughtercards to each anything IO
[17:31:18] <norias> i dig
[17:31:25] <witnit> so you can double your AXIS by adding one more daughtercard
[17:31:29] <robinsz> you said "thoudands"
[17:31:39] <norias> i think $200 counts as throw-away for what i'm doing
[17:31:50] <robinsz> there are other open source controls for a few hundred dollars
[17:32:07] <robinsz> but, you are tied to their hardware
[17:32:17] <robinsz> EMC is nicer as its mix and match
[17:32:37] <Tom_itx> Jymmm, what's an WS2812?
[17:33:16] <_methods> heheh
[17:33:17] <_methods> led
[17:33:18] <_methods> man
[17:33:22] <_methods> come on
[17:33:27] <Tom_itx> JT-Shop can i have that done by the middle of last week?
[17:33:36] <witnit> norias
[17:33:46] <witnit> can you program bash?
[17:33:58] <witnit> just scripts?
[17:34:07] <zeeshan|2> robinsz: exactly.
[17:34:23] <zeeshan|2> and i am even running amc servo drives
[17:34:38] <zeeshan|2> which an handle both brush and brushless
[17:34:45] <zeeshan|2> i would hate to get tied down to a specific motor!
[17:34:57] <alex____w> mesa isn't really the servo-drive part of the machine
[17:35:03] <zeeshan|2> i know :P
[17:35:07] <zeeshan|2> its the interface part
[17:35:08] <alex____w> it's how to interface the servo drives with the macihne
[17:35:24] <zeeshan|2> im just saying, i kept universal replaceability in my mind
[17:35:32] <robinsz> most drives are +- 10V analogue in and an eneable
[17:35:33] <zeeshan|2> when i was coming up with components for the controller
[17:35:43] <robinsz> all decent controllers can drive that
[17:35:43] <zeeshan|2> robinsz: yea but they dont all support
[17:35:46] <zeeshan|2> tachometer
[17:35:46] <witnit> yeah but you cant just mix servo + stepper or resolver encoder etc all with the same interface
[17:35:48] <zeeshan|2> encoder
[17:35:53] <robinsz> wut?
[17:35:53] <witnit> in most cases
[17:35:54] <zeeshan|2> etc.
[17:35:57] <zeeshan|2> not all in the same drive.
[17:36:06] <zeeshan|2> go look at fanuc drives
[17:36:07] <robinsz> drives are part of the machine
[17:36:10] <robinsz> not the controller
[17:36:13] <zeeshan|2> they'll be brushless only
[17:36:14] <zeeshan|2> yea
[17:36:18] <zeeshan|2> so when you blow up servo motor
[17:36:20] <zeeshan|2> what do you do?
[17:36:22] <alex____w> the only servo drives that i have any personal experience with are yaskawa drives at the upper end of the market
[17:36:26] <alex____w> which are closing the loop themselves
[17:36:29] <zeeshan|2> if your drive can only drive brushless?
[17:36:30] <robinsz> chnage it?
[17:36:31] <alex____w> i have little experience with other drives
[17:36:41] <zeeshan|2> would you not rather have a drive
[17:36:44] <zeeshan|2> that can handle an array of servos?
[17:36:47] <robinsz> no
[17:36:50] <tjtr33> robinsz, lots of metric users nowadays, no problems. i think remember your nick from the emc days ( pre linuxcnc )
[17:36:52] <zeeshan|2> so youre not limited to replacing with with a specific kind?
[17:36:54] <zeeshan|2> why?
[17:37:04] <JT-Shop> Tom_itx, if you have enough money you can
[17:37:22] <witnit> if robinz knows it as EMC i would say robinz been gone awhile :P
[17:37:31] <robinsz> tjtr33, yeah, I have been around for a while ;) ...
[17:37:48] <tjtr33> i was tomp3 or staggerlytomp back then
[17:37:58] <robinsz> you see the picture on the front page of linuxcnc.org? ... thats my router in the background
[17:38:04] <witnit> i started with emc and printer port
[17:38:18] <zeeshan|2> robinsz: doesnt make sense to be stuck to one kind of motor
[17:38:23] <robinsz> thats been there ... hmm ... probably 10 years
[17:38:26] <zeeshan|2> especially for a homeshop :)
[17:38:45] <robinsz> zeeshan|2, whatever. I usually just change the drive with the motor
[17:38:51] <zeeshan|2> thats expensive
[17:38:54] <robinsz> baldor drives with baldor motors
[17:39:01] <zeeshan|2> you must have a lot of money to waste
[17:39:02] <robinsz> fanuc with fanuc
[17:39:03] <witnit> nice :)
[17:39:06] <robinsz> etc
[17:39:24] <alex____w> zeeshan|2: how often are you destroying your servo motors?
[17:39:29] <alex____w> and why are you doing it so often?
[17:39:35] <zeeshan|2> alex____w: when it happens
[17:39:39] <zeeshan|2> the option should be there
[17:39:42] <alex____w> this seems like an academic concern
[17:39:50] <robinsz> alex: exactly
[17:40:07] <alex____w> sort of like worrying about which chipset socket is most likely to still be in use in 3 years in case you want to replace your cpu indenpdent of the motherboard
[17:40:30] <zeeshan|2> having the ability to mix and match parts is always nice
[17:40:39] <alex____w> the hurco that i just retrofit (that is the metric machine) has been using the same ac servos for 20 years
[17:40:43] <robinsz> id rather buy a combo that I know works well together, if and when it blows, I'll replace the blown bit with another the same, and if I cant get it for whatever reason, I'll swap the pair
[17:40:59] <alex____w> only if you get the same performance from mixed and matched parts, which is probably not the case compared to parts that were designed and tuned together
[17:41:02] <robinsz> you would expect a decent AC servo to last at least 20 years, yeah
[17:41:11] <robinsz> alex: exactly correct
[17:41:20] <robinsz> netsplit!
[17:41:40] <zeeshan|2> shrug you guys have a lot of money :P
[17:43:26] <alex____w> zeeshan|2: the machien that i'm working on was basically purchased for scrap metal cost
[17:43:45] <malcom2073> That's the best kind of machine
[17:43:47] <alex____w> this isn't a big investment machine
[17:43:57] <zeeshan|2> alex____w: same here
[17:44:13] <zeeshan|2> the replacement parts for th ebosch drive
[17:44:15] <zeeshan|2> is $$$$$$
[17:44:22] <zeeshan|2> it was much cheaper to replace em with amc drives
[17:44:29] <alex____w> well, we bought one with drives that worked :)
[17:44:35] <zeeshan|2> mine were 3 phase
[17:44:35] <alex____w> just control software that no one wanted to use
[17:44:37] <zeeshan|2> so i couldntr check :/
[17:44:51] <alex____w> this whole machine is 3 phase, it's too big to practically run on single phase
[17:44:56] <zeeshan|2> tell me about it
[17:45:07] <zeeshan|2> my feeder breaker is sized to 80A
[17:45:08] <zeeshan|2> lol
[17:45:37] <zeeshan|2> i need to start working on it again , but the damn cold is so demotivating
[17:46:36] <andypugh> Does anyone know anything about metal spinning?
[17:47:04] <zeeshan|2> andypugh: they make cheap velocity stacks =D
[17:47:26] <andypugh> I am having a bit of trouble.
[17:47:56] <witnit> the only metal spinning i did was aluminum on a screw machine
[17:48:25] <witnit> it was one inch pipe and i was rolling the end inward for pneumatic exaust mufflers
[17:48:42] <robinsz> Andy!
[17:49:05] <robinsz> are you well dude?
[17:49:11] <andypugh> Not too bad :-)
[17:49:26] <robinsz> good good, long time no speak
[17:49:28] <andypugh> But struggling with the return lip on these: https://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo/yQkdyOglnSbeOjVJPaMwLdMTjNZETYmyPJy0liipFm0?feat=directlink
[17:50:05] <zeeshan|2> andypugh: are you doing that on your lathe?
[17:50:08] <andypugh> (I made that one by making a round “hump” then squishing it in the vice.
[17:50:18] <andypugh> zeeshan|2: Yes.
[17:50:41] <robinsz> thats a nice .. helmet
[17:50:52] <robinsz> taken up battle re-enactment have we?
[17:50:52] <zeeshan|2> looks like apretty light housing
[17:50:58] <andypugh> Headlights for the Ner-a-Car
[17:51:05] <robinsz> oh god ...
[17:51:22] <robinsz> where did you find that?
[17:51:29] <andypugh> In my shed :-)
[17:51:34] <robinsz> damn shed
[17:51:44] <zeeshan|2> andypugh: is it cracking?
[17:51:58] <andypugh> robinsz: Have younot seen http://bodgesoc.blogspot.co.uk/search/label/Neracar1 ?
[17:52:16] <robinsz> that wastn you who turned right at Bramble Bank was it?
[17:53:33] <andypugh> zeeshan|2: Well, cracking is a problem, but the main issue is forming the lip. I can make an straight flange against the removable collar, but when I remove the collar the flange unwraps as I spin down the other side.
[17:53:52] <andypugh> I probably need a backing stick, but my setup doesn’t suit two-handed work.
[17:54:04] <andypugh> robinsz: As I have no idea what you mean, no.
[17:54:49] <robinsz> I was referencing your sailign antics and that thing currentyl stuck on bramble bank
[17:55:28] <robinsz> nice project btw, chassis looks good
[17:55:45] <andypugh> Ah! Now the familiar name comes to mind. We did scrape Bramble Bank once.
[17:55:59] <andypugh> Clipper boats have a 15’ keel.
[17:57:18] <robinsz> nice hub removery tool thingy too
[17:57:29] <robinsz> I did something similar a month or two back
[17:57:35] <robinsz> rebuilt an HSD auto spindle
[17:57:53] <robinsz> 18 months ago, it blew a bearing
[17:57:59] <robinsz> they rebuilt it .. �1850
[17:58:08] <robinsz> a month later it blew again ...
[17:58:15] <robinsz> rust due to water in airline
[17:58:35] <robinsz> but they assured me at the time, water was not an issue, as bearing was sealed
[17:58:41] <andypugh> Your fault, or theirs?
[17:58:47] <robinsz> so they rebuilt it half price
[17:58:59] <robinsz> theirs for bad info on air
[17:59:21] <robinsz> so .. I was in 3K ...
[17:59:31] <robinsz> a month ago it blew again
[17:59:39] <andypugh> Half price seems about fair, though clearly money you would rather not have paid.
[17:59:42] <robinsz> so decided to strip it myself
[17:59:54] <andypugh> I guess the bearings are not cheap?
[18:00:02] <robinsz> well .. we'll come to that
[18:00:26] <robinsz> there is air bled through a labirinth seal to keep dust out of the bearing
[18:00:40] <robinsz> but .. they had left the air control screw fully closed ...
[18:00:50] <robinsz> and ...
[18:01:08] <robinsz> the front housing rotated 90 degrees so the air bleed holes didnt line up anyway
[18:01:11] <robinsz> and ...
[18:01:37] <robinsz> the plug screw missing from the cross-drilling so the air woudl not have gone through the labyrinth even then
[18:01:41] <robinsz> tossers
[18:02:28] <robinsz> made a tool, stripped it, ignored all the "ooh, but you need a degree in astrophysics, virgins milk and a special balancing machine" bullshit that spindle rebuolders tell everyone
[18:02:41] <robinsz> bought the exact correct bearings, for �90
[18:02:48] <robinsz> rebuilt, perfect
[18:03:22] <robinsz> although, I used standard grease, instead of the high speed stuff at stupid money
[18:03:27] <robinsz> seems ok so far
[18:04:02] <andypugh> I have heard folk say that the right grease really does matter.
[18:04:12] <robinsz> I suspect they may be right
[18:04:23] <robinsz> if it blows, its 2 hours and �90
[18:04:30] <andypugh> But then at £90 per bearing perhaps it isn’t worth the money.
[18:04:40] <robinsz> per pair ;)
[18:05:07] <andypugh> Bearings for my mill are £240 each, and they are only taper rollers, and get hot at 1000 rpm...
[18:05:13] <robinsz> Id love a syringe full of the right stuff
[18:05:22] <andypugh> Have you tried eBay?
[18:05:31] <alex____w> hot at 1000 rpm does not sound good
[18:05:31] <robinsz> I forget
[18:05:38] <alex____w> for a cnc mill
[18:05:57] <robinsz> im going to put the VF2 on eBay if anyone wants it
[18:07:13] <alex____w> haas?
[18:08:08] <robinsz> yeah
[18:08:18] <norias> how much?
[18:08:22] <robinsz> blown X axis drive, cant be arsed to fix it
[18:08:22] <s1dev> this ^
[18:08:27] <andypugh> Well, the mill didn’t start off as a CNC.
[18:08:46] <robinsz> I was thinking of putting it on at 6k
[18:08:54] <robinsz> see what offers I get
[18:08:55] <norias> hmm, what year?
[18:08:59] <zeeshan|2> benefits of non universal controller!
[18:09:02] <robinsz> no idea
[18:09:06] <zeeshan|2> andypugh: i was looking at your flange thing
[18:09:21] <alex____w> robinsz: where is it located?
[18:09:24] <zeeshan|2> this might sound silly
[18:09:28] <zeeshan|2> but can you tack on the collar?
[18:09:29] <robinsz> monmouth, UK
[18:09:36] <zeeshan|2> while you do the other side?
[18:09:38] <norias> oh heck
[18:09:39] <alex____w> ah, that's a problem :)
[18:09:41] <s1dev> D:
[18:09:52] <alex____w> though i'll be in cambridge, uk, next week
[18:10:02] <robinsz> theres about 100 toolholders, and a rennishaw tool probe
[18:10:13] <Tom_itx> andypugh what if you were to put a collar around part of it?
[18:10:48] <robinsz> it ran fine for a while, then blew the drive card ... I replaced card .. it ran fine for months, then blew again ... THEN i found the fucked wiring
[18:10:55] <norias> heh
[18:11:00] <andypugh> That’s the next plan. (sort of). I have a big aluminium tube that I intend to use to “back up” the flange from the tailstock end while I spin-down the other side.
[18:11:13] <robinsz> the wiring has been replaced, all the way from the motor to box
[18:11:18] <Tom_itx> i know little about metal spinning...
[18:11:21] <robinsz> drive and encoder
[18:11:41] <norias> lol
[18:11:41] <robinsz> just needs someone keen to fix it up
[18:11:52] <norias> they are trying to sell crt's
[18:11:56] <norias> for this controller i'm replacing
[18:11:59] <norias> for $800
[18:12:01] <zeeshan|2> hahaha
[18:12:03] <robinsz> nice
[18:12:07] <norias> no kidding
[18:12:14] <norias> looks like i'm ebaying off the crt
[18:12:20] <norias> project payed for :)
[18:12:25] <robinsz> :)
[18:12:33] <zeeshan|2> thats what i did with my controll haha
[18:12:36] <zeeshan|2> it paid for everything
[18:12:41] <robinsz> yeah
[18:12:53] <norias> yeah, maybe i'll just part it out
[18:13:03] <andypugh> robinsz: What are you doing nowadays? Is this CNC stuff work or hobby?
[18:13:03] <norias> to someone who needs the parts
[18:13:07] <norias> to keep theirs running
[18:20:28] <Jymmm> Cute puppy... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rh87_hrVP5c
[18:24:13] <Tom_L> andypugh, you might find parts of this useful: http://www.knucklebusterinc.com/features/wp-content/2011/09/Sheet_Metal_Fabrication.pdf
[18:24:29] <norias> i'm out folks
[18:24:31] <norias> thanks!
[18:24:40] <Tom_L> P 50 shows rolling a lip
[18:28:43] <andypugh> What is the page number of page 50?
[18:29:36] <malcom2073> 277+50?
[18:30:21] <Tom_L> 326
[18:30:28] <andypugh> Thanks
[18:30:45] <Tom_itx> there's a bit more a few pages ahead of that too
[18:30:52] <Tom_itx> around 40 ish
[18:31:35] <andypugh> That is beading, I have a beading tool.
[18:31:46] <Tom_L> ok
[18:31:47] <andypugh> The flange is different, and difficult.
[18:32:02] <Tom_L> yeah the metal keeps wanting to walk out on you right?
[18:32:53] <andypugh> Well, as I spin-down the chuch-side of the flange it “unrolls” the tailstock side.
[18:33:05] <andypugh> And how you get a constant diameter I have _no_ idea.
[18:33:10] <robinsz> andypugh, I have a company making stuff for guitarists and pa systems, the router we do prototypes on shat itself after christmas
[18:33:52] <andypugh> That sounds unfortunate.
[18:33:59] <robinsz> indeed.
[18:34:49] <robinsz> so ... shoudl I upgrade from EMC2? I just booted the machine ... it was last turned on in August ...
[18:34:56] <robinsz> 2008 ...
[18:34:57] <andypugh> Tom_L: It is perhaps telling that this replica lamp was made with a different style of flange: http://www.geutskens.eu/neracar/images/PPL/8-Accessories/807-Headlamp%20Acetylene/02-807-Headlamp%20Ace-lhv-gec.jpg
[18:35:27] <robinsz> been any bugfixes since 2008? ;)
[18:36:04] <andypugh> robinsz: One or two. But it’s unlikely that the PC will run a version of Linux that will run the latest version.
[18:36:50] <robinsz> what was 2008? hardy heron?
[18:36:50] <Tom_L> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3D4t9pp7y-I
[18:37:10] <robinsz> is there a liveboot these days?
[18:37:13] <andypugh> Yes. And I am pretty sure we dropped Hardy support.
[18:37:27] <andypugh> Yes, in the usual place at www.linuxcnc.org
[18:37:31] <robinsz> righty
[18:37:37] <andypugh> But they seem to have switched to Debian Wheezy.
[18:37:44] <robinsz> oh, good call
[18:37:52] <andypugh> (I am happy enuough with Ubuntu.)
[18:37:56] <robinsz> debian is slurpy!
[18:38:06] <Tom_itx> i updated my ubuntu to 2.6
[18:38:21] <Tom_itx> will probably go to 2.7 soon
[18:38:37] <robinsz> andypugh, anyting else happened in the last 7 years since we spoke?
[18:38:58] <andypugh> Not in my life :-)
[18:39:03] <robinsz> same ;)
[18:40:09] <robinsz> I visited Beaver in Swaziland, but thats about it
[18:40:29] <PetefromTn_> Hey folks
[18:40:45] <robinsz> good een
[18:41:00] <PetefromTn_> happy to report that the Cincinatti has been rigid tapping parts for me all afternoon LOL!
[18:41:12] <robinsz> this is "interesting" fsvo "interesting" http://dynomotion.com/KFLOP.html
[18:41:23] <Tom_itx> PetefromTn_, prove it!
[18:41:41] <robinsz> nice, rigid tapping is always fun, you have spindle encoder or tach?
[18:41:42] <PetefromTn_> 3/8-16 half inch deep in 6061..
[18:41:54] <_methods> nice
[18:41:56] <PetefromTn_> aluminum rods in the 5c collet fixture
[18:41:59] <_methods> tappin alum sux
[18:42:00] <PetefromTn_> vertically...
[18:42:01] <mozmck> andypugh: I don't mind Ubuntu, but I don't like the Unity desktop
[18:42:20] <andypugh> I got used to Unity pretty quickly.
[18:42:22] <mozmck> So I switched to LinuxMint - and use Cinnamon and XFCE
[18:42:25] <The_Ball> PetefromTn_, so external threads?
[18:42:32] <mozmck> andypugh: Do you do much with it?
[18:42:41] <andypugh> Not really.
[18:42:47] <witnit> this new distro seems so much lighter
[18:42:49] <witnit> i like it
[18:43:09] <mozmck> andypugh: That's probably the difference then - it's my main/only OS, and I use it for work and everything else.
[18:43:09] <The_Ball> witnit, which one?
[18:43:42] <mozmck> I have 5 workspaces, and many programs and virtualbox VMs running on various workspaces at once.
[18:43:49] <witnit> the iso on the the website
[18:44:19] <_methods> xubuntu
[18:44:21] <PetefromTn_> The_Ball No internal..
[18:44:22] <witnit> the last one one i had used was ubuntu
[18:44:27] <PetefromTn_> standby for pics...
[18:44:27] <_methods> plain old xfce FTW
[18:44:28] <andypugh> I find pretty much every App and foile on my Mac with CMD-Space so searching for most things in Unity feels sort-of familiar. I have a feeling that we have too many files and apps now for icons to actually be a sensible paradigm any more.
[18:44:32] <witnit> this is xfce
[18:45:03] <_methods> all the other "DE's" can go to hell
[18:45:06] <The_Ball> PetefromTn_, oh, so you have a 5C bed fixture, cool, what sort of tap do you use, a normal hand tap or have you got one of those short cnc taps?
[18:45:10] <andypugh> I might have to do something with the Lathe PC. It told me that the HD was going to fail imminently today.
[18:45:27] <_methods> andypugh: it's just messin with you
[18:45:28] <mozmck> andypugh: I use the search feature in the menu on cinnamon and xfce quite a bit
[18:45:29] <_methods> computers do that
[18:45:34] <andypugh> Can you still get IDE drives?
[18:45:37] <witnit> are you switching to ssd?
[18:45:53] <Tom_itx> andypugh you can get adapters if not
[18:45:56] <witnit> I keep backups of all my machines on bootable usb so i can recover very quickly
[18:46:11] <andypugh> This PC won’t biit from USB.
[18:46:15] <_methods> i never back up anything
[18:46:19] <witnit> sure it will :)
[18:46:24] <_methods> i just keep a lot of tissues around
[18:46:27] <witnit> you got a floppy drive in it?
[18:46:28] <witnit> =D
[18:46:31] <The_Ball> andypugh, I don't think so but you can get "bridges" which will convert from SATA to IDE
[18:46:35] <robinsz> andypugh, I bought another router as a project, for later int he year
[18:46:42] <andypugh> It’s a dual Xeon 1U server from 2003.
[18:46:44] <robinsz> Builerini or something ... italian
[18:46:58] <witnit> you could boot from network right>
[18:47:01] <PetefromTn_> http://i.imgur.com/x1Nl2WC.jpg http://i.imgur.com/odAMAjf.jpg http://i.imgur.com/2Vr9uGZ.jpg
[18:47:22] <robinsz> andypugh, nice big spindle, 10 tool ATC, 9 station drill , 2 horizontal drills and a slitting saw!
[18:47:26] <PetefromTn_> The_Ball The tap is a spiral flute 3 flute tap from Morse I belive
[18:47:50] <andypugh> witnit: In theory. It does seem to want to biit from network.
[18:48:07] <witnit> so there is a usb on it though
[18:48:18] <robinsz> andypugh, I didnt need it ... but it was cheap :)
[18:48:21] <witnit> you could do PXE>USB maybe
[18:48:41] <andypugh> robinsz: What more reason do you need ;-)
[18:49:05] <robinsz> andypugh, someone had cut the cabling when they ripped it out
[18:49:46] <andypugh> Hmm, this PC has “Ultra DMA/100 IDE” which sounds vaguely old-school.
[18:49:48] <robinsz> so it will need a bit of heatshrink and some soldering ...
[18:50:05] <andypugh> All wired in pink?
[18:50:37] <robinsz> Its itallian, so probably in their natioanl colours
[18:50:50] <robinsz> its looks like its all mumtilcolor, so no biggie
[18:51:09] <witnit> andypugh http://www.plop.at/en/ploplinux/networkboot-linux.html
[18:51:29] <witnit> that would work from floppy or net or cd ect
[18:51:52] <robinsz> andypugh, unlike my existing router, this thing is built like a proper machine tool ... 12" x 6" box section for gantry, 1/2" wall
[18:51:55] <Tom_itx> andypugh, newegg still have PATA drives
[18:51:56] <The_Ball> PetefromTn_, nice, with the spiral flute I've heard they are better at clearing swarf, I started rigid tapping last weekend with a straight hand tap and found swarf to build up quickly. I then did multiple cycles with increasing depth, I think I used 10 passes to get 25mm/1inch so took a while and the threads were slightly loose
[18:52:21] <The_Ball> PetefromTn_, so do you do a single tap cycle straight to the bottom?
[18:52:23] <andypugh> Yeah, it’s tricky that the machine has no CD or floppy and won’t boot from USB :-)
[18:52:41] <witnit> serious boot from plops and you are set :)
[18:52:55] <robinsz> spiral machine taps will just go straight in usually, plenty of lube and away you go
[18:53:29] <witnit> you could install it on a junk hdd and then tell it to boot to usb after it kicks on
[18:53:30] <PetefromTn_> yeah just a straight tap cycle. Never tried a peck tap not even sure how to program it...
[18:53:39] <PetefromTn_> at least on the linuxCNC
[18:53:40] <robinsz> yeahm they sound risky
[18:54:25] <andypugh> I should be able to clone the HDD. I probably ought to backup the config folders. In fact I will do that now. (Oh the marvels of Wake-On-LAN)
[18:54:34] <robinsz> fluteless works OK in thinner aluminium
[18:54:38] <robinsz> with the right lube
[18:54:40] <The_Ball> PetefromTn_, cool. There isn't a peck tap cycle as far as I'm aware, I just did a while loop with increasing depth, so multiple G33.1 or what ever it is, it syncs to the index pulse so it's fine
[18:55:24] <PetefromTn_> on linuxCNC....SWEET! gonna have to try that. Can you share your code snippet so I can see how you did it?
[18:55:37] <witnit> are there any problems running a machine purely from bash to handle the machine instead of using gcode?
[18:55:47] <robinsz> doh ... mfw I downloaded and burnt a DVD .. and this PC has no DVD drive ...
[18:55:50] <witnit> so, halcmd then all the stuff you need?
[18:56:11] <andypugh> witnit: No, you can do that.
[18:56:23] <robinsz> you could ...
[18:56:32] <witnit> i was though, is that bad?
[18:57:04] <andypugh> I do lots of stuff from a halcmd session. Most of my driver development for example.
[18:57:24] <witnit> halcmd setp %@#$%#$%^WRWET FALSE; sleep.2; halcmd @#$%@#$%DSDF TRUE; sleep.5;
[18:57:31] <witnit> like that in a script
[18:58:27] <robinsz> whats about a nice ladder program and some PLC code?
[18:58:37] <andypugh> halrun / source script.hal
[18:58:37] <witnit> i dont know ladder and plx
[18:58:39] <witnit> plc
[18:58:41] <The_Ball> PetefromTn_, here you go, I just comment out the things that are not right for the cycle, first I would center drill, then peck drill, then peck tap: http://pastebin.com/YfDn6ipN
[18:59:57] <PetefromTn_> sure that is what this program is. Face off the top of the part, spot drill, run spot drill around part edge to champfer edge, then peck drill past depth of tapping op, then rigid tap and complete...
[19:00:01] <The_Ball> PetefromTn_, so I would do a manual tool change, change what commented out and do a new run
[19:00:14] <witnit> but i mean just stringing all my halcmd sessions into a bash.sh and executing it, thats np right? i was doing M102 etc with more common things which i repeat
[19:01:34] <The_Ball> PetefromTn_, yeah it's nice when you've done the programming. I've not thought about using a spot drill to chamfer, does that work well?
[19:01:58] <PetefromTn_> for this little champfer it does and saves a toolchange
[19:02:42] <The_Ball> PetefromTn_, nice I'll keep that in mind
[19:03:40] <furrywolf> grrrr. shoptask send me the wrong belt for my z axis.
[19:03:40] <andypugh> Time I was asleep. Night all.
[19:03:49] <robinsz> night dude,
[19:03:49] <Tom_itx> later andypugh
[19:04:02] <robinsz> nice to see people from wayback
[19:04:22] <robinsz> does anonimasu show his face from time to time?
[19:04:30] <Tom_itx> yes
[19:04:40] <Tom_itx> he's been working on something lately and has been here
[19:04:48] <robinsz> nice
[19:04:55] <robinsz> I see Jymm is still here
[19:04:59] <furrywolf> see, I ordered a replacement straight from shoptask to be sure I got the right one the first time, unlike measuring the length, guessing the tooth count, and ordering from the local industrial supply place. so, of course, shoptask sends me one that doesn't fit.
[19:05:07] <Tom_itx> anon is here but not here :D
[19:10:43] <PetefromTn_> I am NOT good at reading those Do while loops codes.... makes me dizzy ;)
[19:11:53] <The_Ball> PetefromTn_, well ignore the rest of the fluff, it's only the four lines with the o110 you want
[19:12:41] <PetefromTn_> sure
[19:13:58] <witnit> PetefromTn could you shorten that up and pass the variables for different setups using http://linuxcnc.org/docs/html/gcode/m-code.html#sec:M100-to-M199
[19:15:03] <PetefromTn_> witnit thats ball's code not mine... and I SUCK at this sort of thing. I let CAM take care of all of that mess... if the code is miles long I could give a rats ass as long as it works the way I want hehehe
[19:15:30] <witnit> The_Ball your code, can you do that thing i said up there?
[19:15:35] <Tom_itx> take the time to see what the cam is doing
[19:15:46] <Tom_itx> it will start to make sense
[19:15:48] <PetefromTn_> I do all the time...
[19:15:49] <furrywolf> pete: do you have a good free cam program to suggest?
[19:16:13] <PetefromTn_> CAM..no unfortunately... CamBam has been good to me but it is not free
[19:17:21] <witnit> http://fortwayne.craigslist.org/tls/4835628650.html yes or no?
[19:17:59] <PetefromTn_> Yes or no what?
[19:18:09] <witnit> is it a good buy?
[19:18:18] <witnit> would you guys jump on it?
[19:18:24] <furrywolf> no
[19:18:27] <PetefromTn_> I would think so if it comes with the table and you really need it..
[19:19:03] <witnit> I wouldnt say, need it, but. you know when you got the space...
[19:19:06] <PetefromTn_> I have done some wood turning on one of those before and it was decent
[19:19:28] <witnit> the cabinent is nothing special but thats okay too
[19:20:16] <PetefromTn_> It is not a very poweful machine but for it's size and whatnot it seemed to work fine. Small dia stuff should be easy
[19:20:26] <PetefromTn_> Does it come with any turning tools?
[19:20:33] <witnit> it said it did
[19:20:48] <PetefromTn_> a decent set of turning tools alone would cost that much
[19:21:31] <witnit> I should probably go get it, put it back up sale for 500 and use it as needed
[19:21:46] <witnit> 20 min drive away for me
[19:22:34] <furrywolf> I see wood lathes cheaply pretty often, but they don't have cabinets like that.
[19:22:42] <PetefromTn_> well ya never know man... I certainly would not pay $500.00 for it but that does not mean there is not someone who would..
[19:22:46] <witnit> looks like a pine cab
[19:22:59] <witnit> not exactly sought after
[19:23:50] <witnit> ill let you guys know if i get it :)
[19:25:52] <TekniQue> 00:55:55 < PetefromTn_> CAM..no unfortunately... CamBam has been good to me but it is not free
[19:26:05] <TekniQue> I second that, CamBam is quite good
[19:26:23] <TekniQue> and for the low amount of work I use it for the free trial lasts forever
[19:26:24] <MC500> I moved my STG ISA card to a new computer running Linux CNC 2.6 now the axis dont move, I am not getting +- voltage on DAC0-2 all configs are the same I have tried every I/O address
[19:26:41] <TekniQue> the free trial covers starting the application 40 times
[19:26:51] <witnit> what is the board model
[19:26:59] <witnit> the motherboard
[19:27:17] <TekniQue> and as it turns out, I buy a new computer before the trial runs out
[19:27:20] <TekniQue> every time
[19:27:23] <MC500> STG2 industrial MB with ISA slots using core2 quad
[19:28:25] <witnit> http://www.amazon.com/MB-P4BWA-Industrial-Motherboard-ISA-Slots/dp/B004HLOQH6
[19:28:26] <witnit> this?
[19:28:53] <MC500> wow yea thats it..
[19:29:36] <SpeedEvil> Is any ISA card recognised?
[19:29:47] <MC500> I even changed out the power supply cuz the ond one only had a 4 pin CPU power supply
[19:29:49] <SpeedEvil> And is ISA bus enabled in the linux config?
[19:29:55] <MC500> yes the cards are seen by the software
[19:30:18] <furrywolf> cambam seems to come in a .msi file. what the hell is a .msi file?
[19:30:20] <MC500> not sure if ISA is enabled, didnt have to do it on the old software... whre is that done?
[19:30:35] <SpeedEvil> If the cards are seen - that's probably not an issue
[19:30:51] <furrywolf> also seems to be windows-only... and I don't have wine on this box to see if it even works.
[19:31:14] <MC500> the encoders work and display fine and I can turn the spindle on and off
[19:31:19] <witnit> 2 x ISA slots (No DMA support for ISA)
[19:31:22] <witnit> does that matter?
[19:31:38] <MC500> oh really? it may
[19:33:16] <witnit> what card are you plugging into it?
[19:34:00] <MC500> Servo to Go 2 ISA card
[19:35:13] <MC500> I didnt catch the no dma support for ISA I bet thats it
[19:36:29] <The_Ball> witnit, what do you mean, m codes do not run gcode as far as I know
[19:36:45] <witnit> do these work? http://www.diytrade.com/china/pd/3108380/PCI_to_ISA_Convertor_Module_PCM_9004.html
[19:36:57] <witnit> i know nothing about isa to pci conversion
[19:39:16] <witnit> the_ball i used mcodes to escape the gcode and call sub routines to do repetitive things like handling a momentary acuator with one command
[19:40:06] <witnit> so instead of writing it all out by hand in each gcode file, you could just call on it via mcode and pass the variables you needed with -q
[19:40:18] <MC500> no its a 16 bit card.....:(
[19:40:49] <witnit> sorry MC500 atleast we found a possible reason you are having issues
[19:42:14] <robinsz> so ,,, question
[19:42:15] <MC500> thanks for the help
[19:42:58] <witnit> the_ball if your subroutine is dependant on a variable, and you pass an mcode with the variable in it, it writes the variable to file. now when you call your subroutine it will function with the new variable is what im trying to say
[19:43:15] <robinsz> pausing ... how easy/hard will it be to get it to do this when paused: retract spindle, spindle off. and then spindle on, wait 5 seconds, Z down .. continue
[19:44:24] <witnit> not hard
[19:44:25] <unfy> industrial boards might not be a bad idea. I-Base / IBase mad quite a few and should still
[19:44:37] <unfy> (that is modern hardware with pci/isa bus's)
[19:45:04] <robinsz> witnit, there is some scripting possible now for stuff like that?
[19:45:08] <furrywolf> I can't imagine a servo control card needing DMA.
[19:45:16] <witnit> you can call that with an mcode and pass a bash to handle it, i dont know how safe it is but its what i do
[19:45:31] <furrywolf> DMA is usually for transferring large blocks of information (disk sectors, display pages, etc) to and from memory, not a task needed for a servo card.
[19:45:40] <witnit> do you have a machine up right now?
[19:45:41] <The_Ball> witnit, what's the problem your solving with the m code? Why not just use a function call with the variables as arguments, or global variables?
[19:45:57] <robinsz> physical machine?
[19:46:26] <witnit> i use the m codes to do work outside of the program
[19:46:31] <The_Ball> witnit, o<pecktapp> #<depth> #<step> or what ever
[19:46:37] <robinsz> The_Ball, I'd like to do the following when the machine pause is pressed
[19:46:44] <robinsz> retract Z
[19:46:51] <robinsz> stop spindle
[19:47:11] <robinsz> probably stuff liek mist or vaccum off too
[19:48:09] <furrywolf> bbl, time for work
[19:48:10] <The_Ball> robinsz, for a tool change?
[19:48:11] <robinsz> then when continue, spindle start, drop back down to correct Z, off we go
[19:48:15] <witnit> I do this, M102, relay off, wait 5 seconds relay on; add 1 to the cycle program post results to website; exit;
[19:48:16] <robinsz> no, for a pause
[19:48:20] <witnit> with one mcode
[19:49:34] <robinsz> The_Ball, just a pause ... sometimes when working on 8x4 sheets on a router, its useful to be able to pause while you do something, like move a bit of scrap or some such
[19:49:47] <zeeshan|2> http:////c4.staticflickr.com/8/7484/16106238952_2b505be13c_b.jpg http://i.ebayimg.com/00/s/MTIwMFgxNjAw/z/aXgAAOxyF0pTiQbZ/$_57.JPG
[19:49:59] <zeeshan|2> i need to connect a diode between pin #14 of the relay
[19:50:08] <zeeshan|2> and -24vdc rail, what is the cleanest way to do this?
[19:50:34] <The_Ball> robinsz, ah I see, and you wouldn't do this with M0 or M1?
[19:50:41] <unfy> 'clean' is arbitrary
[19:50:50] <robinsz> ??
[19:50:59] <robinsz> where woudl you enter this M0?
[19:51:11] <zeeshan|2> http://i.ebayimg.com/00/s/MTEwN1gxNjAw/z/I5kAAMXQQANREsfg/$T2eC16JHJF8E9nnC6UtNBREsfgeu9w~~60_35.JPG
[19:51:11] <robinsz> in the MDI line while it is running?
[19:51:12] <zeeshan|2> thats the diode.
[19:51:20] <zeeshan|2> its legs are exposed, im not too sure how to put it in
[19:51:32] <robinsz> might be a bit cumbersome if the operator spots somethign and just wants to pause ...
[19:52:04] <unfy> you could just push the sucker in if you don't care and the legs are fat enough to get a solid grip
[19:52:15] <zeeshan|2> hm
[19:52:15] * FinboySlick is so cold...
[19:52:20] <zeeshan|2> i don think it will reach.
[19:52:23] <witnit> you could just put a button on the machine to trigger such an event
[19:52:25] <zeeshan|2> with the diode by itself
[19:52:59] <robinsz> The_Ball, I was hoping just to use the pause icon on the GUI .. or even a key press
[19:53:02] <The_Ball> robinsz, why not something like this? http://pastebin.com/XhJwNWRZ
[19:53:05] <unfy> otherwise, solder it to a couple copper bars and possibly heat shrink it the solder connections. don't cover the diode (it'll get warm, and you need to see the marking for direction)
[19:53:46] <robinsz> The_Ball, no, that would require you to know in advance where you want to pause it
[19:53:52] <The_Ball> robinsz, M0 will pause until you press cycle start again, M1 allows you to toggle the conditional stop, so if you don't want pauses it will just continue
[19:54:02] <The_Ball> robinsz, yes for sure
[19:54:11] <robinsz> yes, but thats in the GCODE program
[19:54:13] <_methods> kester 44 60/40
[19:54:19] <_methods> is it the best solder ever
[19:54:51] <robinsz> im talking about pressing the pause button on the GUI ... to temporarilt stop execution ... you cant just pause the motion on a router
[19:54:53] <unfy> then only thing i like modern solder for is adding it in a 1/15 or 1/20 ratio for casting lead bullets :D
[19:54:57] <The_Ball> robinsz, so what you want is a button in the UI which you can press to pause which will then move the spindle away?
[19:55:00] <robinsz> well, you could, if you dont mind a fire
[19:55:07] <robinsz> indeed
[19:55:16] <unfy> (all that tin and a touch of antimony ? yes plz)
[19:55:24] <_methods> hehe
[19:55:30] <witnit> but how is he going to do that one the fly?
[19:55:46] <robinsz> its standard on routers
[19:55:54] <robinsz> you cant just pause motion
[19:56:05] <robinsz> tools burn up
[19:56:14] <witnit> I think you need to add a secondary switch that will pause your machine then do sequence and unpause the machine
[19:56:23] <The_Ball> robinsz, I've not tried this myself yet, but there's a feature called 'job on pause' allowing the spindle to be moved when paused, it might be possible to shoehorn into such a feature
[19:56:33] <The_Ball> sorry, jog on pause
[19:56:44] <robinsz> yes, thats useful
[19:57:18] <robinsz> my current router does (or did ...) that
[19:57:26] <robinsz> press pause, retracts, spindle stops
[19:57:39] <robinsz> jog it out of the way, mess around with wood
[19:57:52] <robinsz> press continue, it comes back to correct x,y
[19:57:56] <robinsz> starts spindle
[19:58:00] <robinsz> drops it in
[19:58:02] <robinsz> continues
[19:58:17] <witnit> yes, you can do that exact thing with a single button that that calls your routine
[19:58:37] <witnit> or a toggle switch would be nice
[19:58:48] <robinsz> well, if it can be done with a swtich
[19:58:51] <witnit> up down style
[19:58:55] <robinsz> it can be done on screen I would think
[19:59:02] <witnit> yes it can
[19:59:08] <witnit> just make a new pause button
[19:59:11] <witnit> are you using axis?
[19:59:16] <robinsz> yes
[19:59:23] <witnit> it has a button builder
[19:59:29] <robinsz> oh nice
[19:59:35] <witnit> which you can link to your pendant
[19:59:39] <zeeshan|2> https://farm9.staticflickr.com/8670/15596226514_0c9dbd3124_o.png
[19:59:45] <zeeshan|2> can i do the top circuit instead of bottom
[19:59:46] <robinsz> pendant?
[19:59:48] <zeeshan|2> does it make a difference?
[19:59:54] <witnit> it could be your keyboard
[19:59:57] <zeeshan|2> length of wire slightly changes.
[20:00:00] <witnit> or a playstation controller
[20:00:08] <witnit> one button or a touchscreen button
[20:00:14] <witnit> or something you click on the screen
[20:00:41] <robinsz> keep diode close to coil
[20:00:47] <zeeshan|2> i cant
[20:00:53] <zeeshan|2> the hydraulic solenoid is enclosed
[20:01:04] <robinsz> keep diode as close to coil *as you can*
[20:01:10] <zeeshan|2> if i put it close to it it would float around a dirty environment
[20:01:20] <zeeshan|2> as close is 8 feet :P
[20:01:39] <witnit> http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?Adding_Custom_MDI_Buttons
[20:01:47] <witnit> somehting like that would get you started
[20:01:48] <robinsz> does the 8 ffet of exposed wire go near anyhting likely to be upset by a rf spike?
[20:01:54] <robinsz> thanks
[20:04:26] <robinsz> emc/linuxcnc has really come on a long way
[20:04:28] <witnit> robinsz that will only get you the button you still need to be able to get a script to handle the machine without losing the AUTO state it is in i think
[20:04:38] <unfy> zee: conceptually on paper, yes you can do it. wire length and capacitance ... and environmental conditions could play a role etc etc etc.
[20:04:51] <robinsz> that will be the harder part
[20:05:03] <witnit> yes but not too bad
[20:05:23] <robinsz> store XYZ, stor spindle speed
[20:05:25] <witnit> Im quite sure you can do it with a very simple bash script
[20:05:36] <witnit> yes
[20:05:41] <witnit> if you know how to do it that way
[20:05:44] <robinsz> it uses bash for scripting?
[20:05:50] <unfy> zee: if it was on a pcb, i wouldn't care prolly :D
[20:06:06] <zeeshan|2> i wish it was on a din rail mounted pcb w/ terminals.
[20:06:10] <zeeshan|2> would make it a lot easier..
[20:06:11] <witnit> I do, I just pass what i need to it and the hand the controls back to the software when im done
[20:06:19] <robinsz> hmm
[20:06:31] <witnit> I made a counter
[20:06:43] <witnit> everytime you call this mcode it will add 1 to a file
[20:06:49] <unfy> make sure the wire on the top example can handle the parallel load
[20:07:00] <zeeshan|2> theyre all oversized
[20:07:08] <zeeshan|2> to like 14 awg
[20:07:14] <unfy> there's no engineered like over engineered <3
[20:07:20] <witnit> which you could watch by typing "watch mcodecounter.txt" and it would tell you how many times that counter has been hit
[20:07:58] <zeeshan|2> i wonder if they make din rail mounted diode modules lol
[20:08:09] <zeeshan|2> LOL
[20:08:10] <zeeshan|2> they DO!
[20:08:12] <unfy> "overbuilt since 1955" <3 http://www.menards.com/main/store/20090519001/items/media/Plumbing/bernz001_PL/ProductLarge/014045114516.jpg
[20:08:44] <robinsz> its normal just to wire the diode across the terminals
[20:09:29] <zeeshan|2> i dont have any damn din rail space left though haha
[20:09:51] <zeeshan|2> so i guess it looks like my option is to sold wire at the ends of the diode
[20:09:56] <zeeshan|2> heat shrink it all and shove it in
[20:10:02] <zeeshan|2> *solder
[20:10:08] <robinsz> you normally just find them pushed in to the din rail terminals
[20:10:17] <zeeshan|2> but the legs arent long enough?
[20:10:25] <zeeshan|2> i guess they design em with that in mind.. unlike me
[20:10:46] <robinsz> depends what diode
[20:11:04] <zeeshan|2> im using a 6a4
[20:11:26] <zeeshan|2> according to spec sheet its got like 8.5-9mm legs
[20:11:31] <zeeshan|2> er 1" legs.
[20:11:41] <robinsz> kinda short
[20:12:19] <robinsz> whatever ... just bodge it in there and be done
[20:12:28] <zeeshan|2> i agree :P
[20:13:43] <zeeshan|2> wow
[20:13:46] <zeeshan|2> im SUCH A TARD
[20:13:57] <zeeshan|2> i have a shit load of non thru mount diodes
[20:14:04] <zeeshan|2> that i totally forgot. they came with my contactors.
[20:15:53] <zeeshan|2> http://i.ebayimg.com/05/!Be,ZBqgBmk~$(KGrHqIH-CYErenO0ZuPBK9Ikkq3uw~~_12.JPG
[20:15:55] <zeeshan|2> its like this picture
[20:16:01] <zeeshan|2> that thing chilling on the top
[20:17:58] <robinsz> let us know how it works out
[20:18:16] <zeeshan|2> wont know till the kaboom happens sometime next week
[20:18:19] <zeeshan|2> when its all wired up :P
[20:20:21] <The_Ball> zeeshan|2, maybe check with a multimeter that the coil doesn't already have a diode built in? if it's a fully sealed unit and all
[20:20:45] <zeeshan|2> the_ball i've never used a multimeter to check for that
[20:21:07] <The_Ball> zeeshan|2, there should be a diode tester mode on most multimeters these days
[20:21:38] <zeeshan|2> the setting that says hFE?
[20:21:50] <zeeshan|2> nm
[20:22:09] <The_Ball> zeeshan|2, that's for testing transistor amplification, but does that setting have a diode icon as well?
[20:22:33] <zeeshan|2> oh there we go
[20:22:36] <zeeshan|2> i do have a diode symbol
[20:22:47] <zeeshan|2> so what do yuou do, just touch the leads and it should beep?
[20:23:11] <The_Ball> depending on the multimeter it will show you the forward drop voltage, usually 0.6-0.7v
[20:23:24] <zeeshan|2> okay so if it shows me 0 v
[20:23:29] <The_Ball> so touch the leads check for a reading, reverse the leads check for a reading
[20:23:30] <zeeshan|2> in either direction
[20:23:35] <zeeshan|2> that means there is no diode?
[20:24:46] <The_Ball> hmm, actually that probably won't work without enough current to charge the coil up to the diode's forward voltage
[20:25:07] <The_Ball> sorry, I don't think you can do it without a power source
[20:26:16] <The_Ball> if you had a constant voltage and constant current power source you would hook up the coil one way and measure the voltage over it, then reverse the wires, one of the readings would give you a low ~1V reading if there was a diode in place
[20:27:15] <The_Ball> you'd also see the powersupply switch to constant current mode if there was a diode short circuiting in one direction
[20:43:14] <zeeshan|2> okay i tried to use the diode thingy.
[20:43:46] <zeeshan|2> on a diode i had in front of me. it read .58V one way, 0V the other way
[20:43:53] <zeeshan|2> tried it with the solenoid, doesnt read anything.
[20:48:32] <zeeshan|2> learned something new today :)
[20:48:37] <zeeshan|2> thank you!
[21:10:15] <Sairon> oh
[21:10:19] <Sairon> hmm
[21:10:51] <Sairon> didn't realize i was logged in here
[21:10:56] <Sairon> wonder how long that's been
[21:16:44] <zeeshan|2> has anyone noticed this about iscar
[21:16:47] <zeeshan|2> http://imgur.com/C0V7oMR
[21:17:06] <zeeshan|2> when you turn it upside down
[21:17:08] <zeeshan|2> what it says
[21:17:39] <furrywolf> does it say something?
[21:17:45] <zeeshan|2> yea
[21:17:47] <zeeshan|2> "JUDAS"
[21:18:08] <furrywolf> looks like JUDSI to me.
[21:18:25] <zeeshan|2> jud is in positive space
[21:18:37] <zeeshan|2> a s is in negative space
[21:18:46] <furrywolf> ... in your head, maybe.
[21:19:05] <furrywolf> I see nothing that looks like a or s.
[21:19:06] <The_Ball> zeeshan|2, did you just have an iscar cutter break or something?
[21:19:13] <zeeshan|2> no
[21:21:38] <zeeshan|2> since this channel is logged
[21:21:40] <zeeshan|2> http://www.newark.com/siemens/3rt19161dg00/suppression-diode-3rt-3rh-contactor/dp/35M1023
[21:21:53] <zeeshan|2> that makes a good diode to use vs thru hole component
[21:21:56] <zeeshan|2> nicely packaged
[21:24:44] <furrywolf> $18.29 each?
[21:25:08] <zeeshan|2> that site is overpriced :)
[21:26:49] <furrywolf> they took a $0.05 tvss or something, stuck it in a box with siemens on the side, and added $18.24 to the price.
[21:33:46] <pcw_home> For a relay you dont really need a diode unless its more than 60 mA (a small control relay will be less than 60 mA at 24V)
[21:34:15] <Tom_itx> isn't that double current kickback or double voltage?
[21:34:57] <pcw_home> This is for 7I77 outputs which have built in clamps
[21:35:18] <furrywolf> pcw: unless you're using a board with built-in diodes, you absolutely need one per relay...
[21:35:25] <Tom_itx> you mustuv been thinking ahead :)
[21:35:26] <pcw_home> Nope
[21:35:51] <furrywolf> even a tiny relay generates a >100V spike on turn-off.... hell, I've exploited this to get a little bit of high voltage for other things...
[21:36:24] <pcw_home> the drivers have feedback zeners so fast clamps to ~40V
[21:36:25] <furrywolf> and if you're driving this off, say, a 30v or 60v mosfet, you'll blow the gate oxide. (been there, done that!)
[21:37:11] <pcw_home> Many MOSFETs are rated for this service
[21:37:25] <furrywolf> ok, maybe the drivers YOU use do... but a generic output, unless stated to have protection, should get a diode.
[21:38:02] <Tom_itx> pcw_home, there's no problem configuring the 7i90 for 2 7i47 is there?
[21:38:10] <Tom_itx> since i think the one i have is good now
[21:38:29] <pcw_home> No should not be an issue
[21:38:32] <Tom_itx> won't need all the stepgen etc stuff
[21:38:32] <furrywolf> I have blown gate oxide doing that... first they get leaky between drain and gate, then the stop working... and often whatever was driving the gate gets fried too!
[21:38:38] <Tom_itx> mostly for gpio
[21:38:59] <furrywolf> they short drain-gate, often dumping your power rail onto your logic outputs...
[21:40:46] <Tom_itx> it would be fun to see a list of all the conversions that have been done/talked about on this channel
[21:43:08] <Tom_itx> pcw_home i noticed a misprint in the 7I90 pdf
[21:43:43] <furrywolf> pcw: I asked the other day, but I think you weren't here... happen to have a used 7I76E? I have a few more dollars than I expected (taxes were only $1720, and workers comp only $225...), and am reconsidering a mesa board...
[21:44:43] <Tom_itx> pcw_home, P.2 Paragraph 1 refers to a PCI connector
[21:48:05] <pcw_home> Thanks Ill fix that
[21:50:57] <pcw_home> furrywolf: may have a proto/scungy one around
[21:51:09] <Tom_itx> it's set by default to flash the user area right?
[21:52:22] <furrywolf> I don't know what the government does to deserve half my money, but apparantly they do something...
[21:53:28] <pcw_home> pay off debt for things they already did
[21:53:59] <Tom_itx> or pay the interest on the debt...
[21:54:09] <furrywolf> I've never had an employee injure themselves, yet every year I have to pay more worker's comp. I don't want to invade anywhere, to support people who refuse to get jobs, or buy politicians yachts. none of the money gets spent locally, given that our schools and libraries are downsizing, and it's been decades since I've seen a pothole fixed...
[21:54:58] <furrywolf> the road to Target, one of the largest stores in the area (this isn't a big area), is getting to where even driving down the exact middle of the road, many people slow down to 10mph...
[21:58:22] <roycroft> the city probably can't afford to fix the potholes because they gave target huge long-term tax breaks to get them to open their store
[21:58:41] <roycroft> that's how things typically work in this country nowadays
[21:59:12] <furrywolf> eh, target moved into the old montgomery wards building... the road hasn't been paved in far longer than target's been there. heh.
[21:59:47] <furrywolf> pcw: so there's working support for the E version in the dev version of linuxcnc, right?
[22:00:06] <pcw_home> Tom_itx: thats what I meant... What that song? I still owe money to the money to the money I owe
[22:00:41] <roycroft> montgomery wards probably got tax breaks too :)
[22:01:19] <Tom_itx> heh
[22:01:21] <pcw_home> Yes 2.7 and 2.8 have hm2_eth support
[22:01:28] <roycroft> the "job creators" always pay low or no taxes, because they threaten to take the jobs away if they have to pay their fair share
[22:01:44] * Sairon starts to pay attention.
[22:01:55] <roycroft> so instead, they underpay their employees and then expect those employees to take on the tax burden
[22:02:37] <Sairon> ever hear the song
[22:02:53] <Sairon> "I'm paying taxes, what the hell am I buying?"
[22:03:12] <roycroft> i haven't
[22:03:41] <roycroft> but you're paying for the infrastructure that the "job creators" need in order for them to create jobs
[22:03:45] <Sairon> check it out some time
[22:03:56] <Sairon> it's by James Brown's backing band
[22:04:02] <roycroft> i shall, thanks
[22:04:06] <Sairon> yup
[22:07:06] <Sairon> bummer
[22:07:15] <Sairon> i was just reading some stuff by trotsky
[22:07:25] <Sairon> flipped over here and saw political grumbling
[22:07:31] <Sairon> thought it might be interesting
[22:07:33] <Sairon> now it stop
[22:07:41] <pcw_home> not worried: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T5fHpC4Wux8&list=RDT5fHpC4Wux8#t=7
[22:07:52] <roycroft> i'm not grumbling
[22:07:56] <roycroft> just pointing out truths
[22:08:17] <Sairon> right on
[22:08:34] <Sairon> so were lenin and trotsky
[22:08:37] <roycroft> and now i'm going to make dinner
[22:08:51] <Sairon> cool
[22:08:55] <roycroft> which will be much more productive :)
[22:09:09] <Sairon> truly
[22:11:55] <furrywolf> I should work on the milling machine, but I'm too tired.
[22:14:06] <furrywolf> trying to be productive while this tired will only result in slow, poor work.
[22:15:22] <Sairon> yeah
[22:15:29] <Sairon> if it's critical work
[22:15:36] <Sairon> i tend to leave it for the next day
[22:15:42] <Sairon> after a couple cups of coffee
[22:22:09] <witnit> pcw_home can you suggest a dual eth fanless pico,mini-itx? a sealed fanless power supply would be nice too
[22:23:15] <zeeshan|2> whats wrong with using mpg input for spindle encoder
[22:23:18] <zeeshan|2> w/ 7i77
[22:23:28] <zeeshan|2> pcw has 2 q's to answer now :)
[22:23:55] <witnit> we need to keep him busy so he knows what issues to address in his builds :)
[22:24:16] <zeeshan|2> haha
[22:24:22] <zeeshan|2> poor guy gets asked so many qs
[22:25:18] <witnit> someday he will have someone take that part over for him
[22:25:45] <witnit> and he can sit back and watch his work flourish
[22:27:53] <pcw_home> http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813128698&cm_re=j1900-_-13-128-698-_-Product
[22:27:54] <pcw_home> is known to work ok with linuxcnc
[22:29:14] <pcw_home> zeeshan|2 possible but with limitations: no physical index, limited count rate, TTL only
[22:29:20] <furrywolf> I guess I could go that route instead of a mesa board... stuff a mini-itx in the control box, and run the ui remotely.
[22:29:23] <zeeshan|2> hm
[22:30:33] <Sairon> damn
[22:30:34] <Sairon> wtf
[22:30:42] <Sairon> is that an $83 motherboard
[22:31:21] <zeeshan|2> are TTL
[22:31:28] <Sairon> when i see how cheap computers are these days
[22:31:29] <zeeshan|2> and NPN or PNP outputs the same thing?
[22:31:34] <Sairon> i just want to spit and curse
[22:31:35] <zeeshan|2> i know npn and pnp are different
[22:31:48] <zeeshan|2> or is TTL a combination of the two
[22:31:49] <Sairon> i bought ram for my laptop and it just blew my mind
[22:31:53] <Sairon> how cheap the stuff is
[22:32:43] <pcw_home> TTL in this case means single ended ~1.6V threshold
[22:32:51] * furrywolf remembers when a 16K ram board cost as much as a new car...
[22:32:58] <pcw_home> as opposed to differential
[22:33:22] <Sairon> the amounts of ram and hd space in the computers i have now
[22:33:33] <Sairon> are such huge numbers that they don't even make sense to me
[22:33:34] <zeeshan|2> http:////c4.staticflickr.com/8/7484/16033405519_91a7546fac_b.jpg
[22:33:37] <zeeshan|2> what is this? :)
[22:33:48] <Sairon> it's like telling someone they can have a trillion dollars
[22:34:04] <zeeshan|2> that outputs 5v dg on output 1 and 2.
[22:34:09] <zeeshan|2> dg = dc
[22:34:28] <furrywolf> looks like a quadrature sensor, just a guess...
[22:35:20] <zeeshan|2> last time i asked pcw about this
[22:35:26] <furrywolf> (guess based entirely on the shape of the module and having two outputs)
[22:35:29] <AR__> zeeshan|2, http://www.farnell.com/datasheets/1795491.pdf
[22:35:29] <zeeshan|2> he said something about needeing a 200 ohm resistor mto make it work w/ the encoder inputs
[22:35:44] <zeeshan|2> AR__: i stole that image from there :)
[22:36:11] <AR__> o
[22:36:46] <furrywolf> if it's open-emitter output, then put a 1K resistor to ground. or maybe 4.7K...
[22:37:04] <zeeshan|2> those words too to technical for me
[22:37:06] <zeeshan|2> :)
[22:37:13] <pcw_home> looks like it just has true and inverted outputs
[22:37:31] <furrywolf> or is it still open collector when it's pnp? brain too tired.
[22:37:34] <pcw_home> not quadrature
[22:37:37] <zeeshan|2> which pin would i connect to the enc a
[22:37:41] <zeeshan|2> pin
[22:37:50] <zeeshan|2> qa i mean
[22:37:53] <zeeshan|2> qb and idx
[22:38:01] <zeeshan|2> obv i have 3 of these :P
[22:38:04] <furrywolf> if they're just inverted outputs, pick whichever one you want.
[22:38:12] <zeeshan|2> just unsure which wire goes to the encoder inputs
[22:38:26] <furrywolf> just pick the same one for all three, although linuxcnc can compensate in software no matter how you do it.
[22:38:56] <zeeshan|2> im planning to tie all the +24vdc together for each sensor
[22:39:00] <zeeshan|2> and 0v ..
[22:39:01] <furrywolf> is your index pulse solid or a slot? and do you want it to go high or low?
[22:39:04] <zeeshan|2> to save on wires
[22:39:14] <zeeshan|2> furrywolf: everything will be a slot
[22:39:26] <furrywolf> ok, and when that slot is sensed, do you want it to go high or low?
[22:39:27] <zeeshan|2> i'm just confused whether if i hook up output 1.. to qa
[22:39:28] <pcw_home> dont wire 24V signals to the normal encoder inputs
[22:39:30] <zeeshan|2> will it notice a change?
[22:39:46] <zeeshan|2> pcw_home: it doesnt output 24vdc
[22:39:52] <zeeshan|2> it outputs 5vdc
[22:40:22] <furrywolf> not according to that diagram it doesn't.
[22:40:31] <furrywolf> unless you feed 5v into it, at least.
[22:40:33] <zeeshan|2> oh
[22:40:37] <zeeshan|2> what th ehell.
[22:40:59] <zeeshan|2> okay then theres no need to give it 24vdc
[22:41:15] <zeeshan|2> ill just use the +5v out of the encoder header at 7i77
[22:41:34] <furrywolf> so when you get the index slot, do you want the input to go high or low?
[22:41:46] <zeeshan|2> furrywolf: it doesnt matter i can change that in linuxcnc
[22:41:51] <zeeshan|2> (i dont know yet)
[22:41:55] <furrywolf> if you want it to go high, use the black wire, with a 1k resistor to ground.
[22:42:01] <pcw_home> but it will need a stiff pulldown (since the 7I77 encoder inputs in TTL mode have a 2K pullup)
[22:42:16] <zeeshan|2> if i get a NPN sensor of this type
[22:42:19] <Sairon> why couldn't computers be this awesome when i was a teenager?
[22:42:20] <Sairon> wtf
[22:42:22] <zeeshan|2> will i still need a pull down?
[22:42:36] <furrywolf> ouch. fighting a pullup with a pulldown is a bad idea.
[22:42:36] <pcw_home> No
[22:42:47] <zeeshan|2> ok ill buy a npn then
[22:43:05] <pcw_home> Not really if you dont make it a fair fight...
[22:43:10] <zeeshan|2> https://www.flickr.com/photos/128539016@N05/16033735847/
[22:43:11] <zeeshan|2> specs for npn
[22:43:33] <zeeshan|2> so +5v 7i77 will gho to brown, gnd 7i77 to blue
[22:43:41] <zeeshan|2> and either black or white to qa 7i77 for example
[22:44:23] <zeeshan|2> http://www.ebay.com/itm/SUNX-PM-F54-U-Shaped-MICRO-PHOTOELECTRIC-SENSOR-NPN-/291336385990?pt=Camera_Lenses&hash=item43d50075c6
[22:44:28] <zeeshan|2> found!
[22:44:33] <furrywolf> pcw: yeah, I guess with the 50ma sourcing ability, you can fight a 100ohm pulldown... but it's still ugly. :)
[22:45:09] <furrywolf> the npn will be much easier to wire. no pullups/downs needed if the board has a built-in pullup, and you can feed it any voltage you want.
[22:45:33] <zeeshan|2> well the board gives a 5v psu
[22:45:42] <zeeshan|2> vcc i mean
[22:45:47] <zeeshan|2> whatever you ee's call it :P
[22:45:52] <zeeshan|2> electronic gurus.
[22:46:26] <furrywolf> I need to build a spindle encoder for the lathe half of my machine, but that's a long way off... still haven't made any axis move under power. heh.
[22:47:00] <zeeshan|2> im using a noob board
[22:47:08] <zeeshan|2> well i should put this correctly..
[22:47:15] <pcw_home> shield the wires since in the high state with 2K pullup is sensitive to capacitively coupled noise
[22:47:21] <zeeshan|2> a board for circuit electronics noobs
[22:47:25] <zeeshan|2> by cnc4pc
[22:47:36] <zeeshan|2> PCW: will do :)
[22:47:58] <zeeshan|2> twist all 5 wires together
[22:47:59] <zeeshan|2> ?
[22:48:07] <zeeshan|2> qa qb idx 5v gnd?
[22:48:14] <zeeshan|2> i can twist 5v and gnd together
[22:48:21] <zeeshan|2> and qa qb idx together
[22:48:37] <zeeshan|2> cat5 cable :)
[22:48:55] <furrywolf> you should only twist differential signals together. twisting unrelated things doesn't help. if you want to use twisted pairs, twist each one with ground.
[22:49:12] <furrywolf> twisting unrelated things causes crosstalk
[22:49:36] <zeeshan|2> yea but it helps with external noise?
[22:49:46] <furrywolf> no
[22:50:04] <zeeshan|2> okay ill just use shielded cable
[22:50:16] <pcw_home> it will create crosstalk with A/B/Z
[22:50:21] <furrywolf> twisting helps with noise on differential signals because the noise affects both sides equally, and they cancel out... with a single-ended signal, it's not going to help.
[22:50:26] <furrywolf> shielded cable definitely helps.
[22:52:03] <pcw_home> on linuxcnc 2.6.x the encoder input filtering can be adjusted so it possible to reject most impulse noise
[22:52:16] <zeeshan|2> i used what was it called..
[22:52:22] <zeeshan|2> forgot the components name.
[22:52:23] <witnit> pcw_home that motherboard is exactly what i was looking for. thanks!
[22:52:25] <zeeshan|2> fo the lathe..
[22:52:37] <zeeshan|2> debounce
[22:54:28] <zeeshan|2> i already have 6 wires going to the encoder area
[22:54:32] <zeeshan|2> but theyre not shielded :/
[22:54:53] <zeeshan|2> since ill only need 70 ppr or so for the spindle
[22:55:05] <zeeshan|2> can i just get away with sending 24vdc and hooking these up to the mpg input
[22:57:26] <pcw_home> witnit: make sure you upgrade to at least F2 BIOS, F1 is useless
[22:58:04] <XXCoder> zeeshan|2: hey
[22:58:08] <zeeshan|2> hi
[22:58:28] <XXCoder> forgot if you answered if not, but plan to make sirling engine itself for your project or buy?
[22:58:46] <zeeshan|2> i wasnt building one
[22:58:47] <zeeshan|2> lol
[22:58:58] <XXCoder> I know, you wanted to lol
[22:59:05] <zeeshan|2> i will one day =D
[22:59:10] <zeeshan|2> i really dig that cpu coolr
[22:59:22] <XXCoder> its awesome
[22:59:47] <XXCoder> it looks like type C, that cpu cooler
[23:00:35] <furrywolf> ... please tell me this isn't some conversation on trying to use a stirling engine to capture waste energy from a cpu.
[23:00:51] <XXCoder> furrywolf: cpu cooler
[23:00:56] <XXCoder> it uses cpu heat to cool cpu
[23:01:06] <zeeshan|2> http://regmedia.co.uk/2008/02/29/msi_eco_2.jpg
[23:01:06] <furrywolf> ... it doesn't work that way.
[23:01:14] <XXCoder> it does.
[23:01:18] <witnit> why doesnt it?
[23:01:26] <zeeshan|2> furrywolf: stick to electronics!!!
[23:01:31] <zeeshan|2> leave heat transfer to the ME's
[23:01:32] <zeeshan|2> :-)
[23:01:34] * zeeshan|2 hides
[23:01:53] <XXCoder> I want to make air liquifier too but I am far less skilled and mhas much less tools too bahh
[23:01:56] <furrywolf> because if you're extracting useful energy, you're raising the thermal resistance between the cpu and the air, causing higher cpu temps.
[23:02:04] <XXCoder> its not making energy
[23:02:11] <zeeshan|2> googlez stirling engine
[23:02:19] <furrywolf> so the fan runs off non-energy? :P
[23:02:25] <XXCoder> its pretty clear you need some stirling homework
[23:02:34] <XXCoder> stiring = heat engine
[23:03:24] <furrywolf> a heat engine works on a thermal gradient/temperature DIFFERENCE. not just magically off heat.
[23:03:46] <XXCoder> well theres plenty of difference for type c between cpu and air
[23:03:53] <XXCoder> expecially with heat sink
[23:04:08] <XXCoder> properly made type C can run off your hand
[23:04:23] <furrywolf> in that case, it works on the temperature difference between its base, contacting the cpu, and the air, on the heatsink on top of the cylinder. but if you got rid of the stirling engine and just put the heatsink on the base, it'd cool better...
[23:04:31] <zeeshan|2> whats type c
[23:04:32] <XXCoder> nope
[23:04:40] <XXCoder> zeeshan|2: theres 3 types of stirling
[23:04:59] <zeeshan|2> yea but i havent heard of type c
[23:05:04] <zeeshan|2> does it have another name
[23:05:05] <XXCoder> a, b, c. a has seperate pisions and enclosures, b is one you saw in nigrogen maker
[23:05:10] <XXCoder> c is weird one
[23:05:16] <XXCoder> nope
[23:05:28] <zeeshan|2> wiki shows alpha beta gamma
[23:05:29] <furrywolf> there's more than 3... I invented a double-coaxial setup with two systems working 180 degrees apart, intended for designs with a large physical separation between the hot and cold ends... :P
[23:05:42] <Sairon> hmm
[23:06:02] <Sairon> i seem to remember sterling engines don't need good seals around the pistons
[23:06:07] <zeeshan|2> furrywolf: youre right
[23:06:13] <zeeshan|2> in the sense it needs testing.
[23:06:22] <witnit> turning the fan alone is a form of energy conversion from heat to motion.......
[23:06:28] <Sairon> at least the ones with the really long, opposed pistons
[23:06:32] <zeeshan|2> these sort of systems have a transition point where it makes sense
[23:06:34] <zeeshan|2> and where it doesnt
[23:06:46] <furrywolf> it may well work, but eliminating the stirling motor and sticking the heatsink right on the base will cool better... any time you're extracting energy, you're increasing the thermal resistance.
[23:07:05] <XXCoder> zeeshan|2: actually youre right, I somehow remembered c when its actually gamma
[23:07:15] <zeeshan|2> furry it depends
[23:07:28] <zeeshan|2> there might be a breakeven point on the area of the piston blocking the heatsink
[23:07:31] <zeeshan|2> vs convection
[23:07:33] <furrywolf> I also question the lifespan... even a good ball-bearing brushless fan dies in a few years of continuous use, and it doesn't have seals to wear.
[23:07:45] <furrywolf> zeeshan: an electric fan is the obvious answer. :P
[23:07:58] <XXCoder> furrywolf: I can see some uses though
[23:08:02] <zeeshan|2> convection is has a way higher heat transfer coefficient
[23:08:06] <zeeshan|2> than pure conduction
[23:08:11] <XXCoder> for example projector fan that does not die with power out
[23:08:12] <zeeshan|2> i bet this thing has merit to some point
[23:08:21] <furrywolf> now, if you really wanted fun, you could connect the electric motor to the stirling engine, which will cause the stirling engine to work as a heat pump instead of a heat engine, and actively try cooling the cpu below ambient... :P
[23:08:23] <XXCoder> so bulb lives blackout
[23:08:50] <witnit> regardless you can chase the heat toward the higher end of the heatsink and cool the areas closest to the cpu
[23:09:03] <XXCoder> furrywolf: heh I do want to get nice type beta to make liquified air
[23:10:13] <XXCoder> http://sunpowerinc.com/
[23:10:32] <furrywolf> I should build my design one of these days... it's designed to have the hot end and the cold end physically separated, possibly even with flexible lines between them, while still being efficient... needs a high-surface-area heat exchanger and other fun bits.
[23:10:48] <XXCoder> isnt sealed air requirement?
[23:10:54] <XXCoder> working air
[23:11:05] <furrywolf> no, as long as air is your working fluid, you can leak as much as you want... just lowers efficiency.
[23:11:15] <furrywolf> since it'll suck air back in through the same leaks
[23:11:40] <zeeshan|2> im happy you guys are talking about something viable
[23:11:44] <zeeshan|2> and not some perpetual motion bs
[23:11:48] <zeeshan|2> :)
[23:11:53] <zeeshan|2> that stuff drives me insane
[23:11:55] <XXCoder> indeed
[23:12:04] <XXCoder> magnets!!! :P
[23:12:12] <zeeshan|2> theres a million videos on youtube about free energy
[23:12:19] <furrywolf> zeeshan: duh, you use the heat engine to run a motor to generate electricity, that will power the cpu!
[23:12:24] <unfy> FREE !+_#@%(!+@_)^%(!_@)^(
[23:12:47] <furrywolf> and since powering the cpu makes heat, you can run your computer forever for free!
[23:13:08] <zeeshan|2> http://boingboing.net/wp-content/uploads/2013/03/52bc8442a0c2ee76ac3bcbb157332573_large.jpg
[23:13:09] <zeeshan|2> haha wtf
[23:13:11] <zeeshan|2> that is cool!
[23:13:34] <XXCoder> pelter yeah
[23:13:44] <XXCoder> oh wait stirling
[23:14:00] <XXCoder> I confused it with other one that uses power to warm up cofee
[23:14:07] <zeeshan|2> hehe
[23:14:15] <unfy> 14 years ago i picked up one of the usb peltier warmer/cooler things. useless ._.
[23:14:15] <XXCoder> connect em together
[23:14:19] <zeeshan|2> poor stirling engine doesnt get any love
[23:14:22] <zeeshan|2> its like 10% efficient or something
[23:14:25] <XXCoder> and you get infinite life hot coffee
[23:14:34] <zeeshan|2> wait im wrong about that.
[23:14:39] <XXCoder> actually its pretty high with proper working air
[23:14:44] <zeeshan|2> yea im wrong
[23:14:46] <zeeshan|2> i was thinking of something else.
[23:14:54] <furrywolf> I might do stirling if I ever move to an area with enough direct sunlight to try my fresnel parabolic trough solar collector idea...
[23:15:03] <zeeshan|2> n = 1 - tc/th
[23:15:12] <zeeshan|2> higher the temp differency
[23:15:14] <zeeshan|2> better it gets :P
[23:15:21] <XXCoder> I tried to make solar hot dog cooker. failed
[23:15:29] <XXCoder> I didnt use proper mirror material
[23:15:35] <zeeshan|2> whats cpu temp usually?
[23:15:37] <unfy> and, looking at what it'll take to build the gantry for my thing, i'm at 18 feet of square tubing ._.
[23:15:38] <zeeshan|2> like 50C?
[23:15:50] <furrywolf> yes. no one has beaten carnot with a straight heat engine. :P
[23:16:09] <XXCoder> furrywolf: would be different if there was decades of development
[23:16:17] <zeeshan|2> 60% ideal efficiency
[23:16:17] <XXCoder> tiring enging actually was almost lost idea
[23:16:18] <zeeshan|2> nice.
[23:16:28] <furrywolf> note that internal combustion engines are NOT straight heat engines, and can exceed carnot.
[23:16:29] <XXCoder> good thing it wasnt
[23:16:31] <zeeshan|2> if you do 20/50
[23:17:11] <furrywolf> zee: kelvin, not C
[23:17:12] <zeeshan|2> i was wrong again
[23:17:12] <unfy> $9 for 4 feet. $50 in gantry costs and i've not even touched the Z axis yet ._.
[23:17:13] <zeeshan|2> it is 10%
[23:17:16] <zeeshan|2> yea furry
[23:17:18] <zeeshan|2> 1-293/323
[23:17:32] <zeeshan|2> 9.28%
[23:17:36] <XXCoder> unfy: 8020?
[23:17:39] <zeeshan|2> i knew i got that number from somewhere
[23:17:39] <furrywolf> that sounds much more realistic. :P
[23:18:00] <zeeshan|2> ive been away fro heat transfer and thermo for 2 years :/
[23:18:03] <XXCoder> car engine applies surpising little heat to tires
[23:18:15] <unfy> xxcoder: i... dunno if wanna do that yet.
[23:18:17] <zeeshan|2> been mostly doing structural
[23:18:33] <furrywolf> I do a little bit of everything...
[23:18:35] <XXCoder> me either lol
[23:19:17] <furrywolf> when I get my mill working, I want to play around with building hydraulic pumps and motors next.
[23:19:26] <zeeshan|2> im suprised
[23:19:32] <zeeshan|2> i thought you'd be building dildos or something
[23:19:44] <zeeshan|2> scared tj away
[23:20:27] <furrywolf> who said I couldn't build a fucking machine too? :P
[23:21:10] <XXCoder> heh I need a lot to go before I can
[23:22:52] <furrywolf> before you can build dildos?
[23:22:59] <Sairon> dildos are easy
[23:23:02] <XXCoder> even that much yes
[23:23:06] <XXCoder> no lathe lol
[23:23:18] <Sairon> carve that shit out of wood with a knife
[23:23:23] <Sairon> watch out for splinters
[23:23:26] <XXCoder> probably can build stirling beta with almost just lathe
[23:23:59] <furrywolf> sairon: commercially available wooden dildos are made from very tight grained hardwood, and generally varnished. heh.
[23:24:10] <Sairon> gtfo
[23:24:12] <XXCoder> wow more experence I see
[23:24:13] <Sairon> really/
[23:24:22] <zeeshan|2> on that note, time for bed
[23:24:22] <zeeshan|2> :-)
[23:24:26] <Sairon> ha1
[23:24:27] <XXCoder> lol night
[23:24:38] <furrywolf> you can build a stirling with off-the-shelf parts... I have some airpel pneumatic cylinders that use a graphic piston in a glass bore.
[23:24:46] <furrywolf> graphite
[23:24:57] <furrywolf> I've always wanted to try turning one into a stirling engine. :P
[23:25:18] <XXCoder> really? besides beer or cans ones, never saw off shelf stiring howto
[23:25:22] <XXCoder> make one>? heh
[23:27:41] <furrywolf> http://www.airpot.com/ those people make pneumatic rams with graphite in glass designs... ultra low friction, and should be suitable for conversion into a stirling engine... and they're often dirt cheap on ebay, pulls from used automation equipment.
[23:28:04] <furrywolf> http://www.airpot.com/antistiction-air-cylinders.html
[23:28:28] <furrywolf> "unparalleled low friction, responding to forces as low as only a few grams and pressures less than 0.2 psi"
[23:29:23] <furrywolf> the ones I have are such low friction, that you only need to tilt them a couple degrees from horizontal for the piston to slide to the opposite end of the cylinder
[23:29:53] <XXCoder> wow
[23:30:01] <XXCoder> makes for pretty effecient stirling
[23:30:11] <XXCoder> too bad I has no skill to convert em. without guide anyway
[23:32:01] <furrywolf> well, first you need to think about how a stirling engine works...
[23:32:24] <XXCoder> yeah issue is im no engineer
[23:32:46] <furrywolf> sairon: http://www.coroflot.com/beneligni_holzdildo/holzdildo-wooden-dildo even has pictures on how to make one by hand. :P
[23:33:09] <furrywolf> interestingly, if you search for wooden dildos, google tries making you search for wooden dollhouses instead.
[23:33:22] <Sairon> not clicking on that
[23:33:24] <XXCoder> google used to be awesome
[23:33:25] <Sairon> but
[23:33:31] <Sairon> the google thing is funny
[23:33:37] <furrywolf> for someone who's not an engineer, you sure have strong opinions on how everyone else is wrong on engineering topics. :P
[23:33:50] <Sairon> eh
[23:33:51] <XXCoder> they now use different method than orginial. I love how orginal worked and I could work google magic
[23:33:54] <XXCoder> now its pos
[23:33:56] <Sairon> define engineer
[23:34:20] <XXCoder> designer and builder of mechism (sorry cant think better words tired now lol)
[23:34:29] <Sairon> oh, ok
[23:34:34] <furrywolf> sairon: there's nothing on that page other than generic basic woodworking shots
[23:35:13] <zeeshan|2> hey guys
[23:35:16] <zeeshan|2> did i show you the video
[23:35:21] <zeeshan|2> i know im supposed to be sleeping
[23:35:23] <zeeshan|2> but this video
[23:35:30] <XXCoder> sleepttyper!
[23:35:35] <Sairon> is it a wooden dildo video?
[23:35:40] <zeeshan|2> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R0fMyUXDMV0
[23:35:47] <zeeshan|2> this is what im working on for my research thesis
[23:36:11] <zeeshan|2> need to coat a dildo with that.
[23:36:14] <XXCoder> with you used a stand
[23:36:21] <XXCoder> for camera
[23:36:37] <zeeshan|2> buy me one
[23:37:02] <XXCoder> almost worth it but not good timing lol
[23:37:04] <Sairon> i watched it with no sound
[23:37:06] <XXCoder> my brain sucks
[23:37:07] <Sairon> so...
[23:37:11] * furrywolf isn't going to try dealing with youtube without a description of what the video is and how useful it is
[23:37:13] <Sairon> is it a special polymer?
[23:37:35] <XXCoder> yeah no speakers here, never needed one as me deefy :P
[23:37:36] <Sairon> i feel like i'm missing something
[23:37:53] <zeeshan|2> yea
[23:37:55] <zeeshan|2> it is
[23:37:57] <furrywolf> sairon: lots of companies make wooden dildos... I've never bought one. I like silicone. and stainless. the njoy pure wand is amazing. :P
[23:38:47] <Sairon> eh. i've heard the sex equipment business is quite profitable
[23:39:32] <XXCoder> heh sex is profitable im sure
[23:39:47] <furrywolf> it must be... I think I spent $85 on the pure wand...
[23:40:05] <Sairon> huh.
[23:40:15] <Sairon> oh1 i know!
[23:40:25] <Sairon> internet of things
[23:40:27] <Sairon> dildo
[23:40:33] <furrywolf> ?
[23:40:40] <Sairon> fucking hell, get me a kickstarter campaign
[23:40:51] <Sairon> i'm making dildos that tweak and all that
[23:40:56] <Sairon> er, tweet
[23:41:05] <Sairon> i'm gonna connect dildos to the internet
[23:41:10] <Sairon> to ... do... something
[23:41:15] <furrywolf> already been done.
[23:41:18] <Sairon> damn
[23:41:22] <Sairon> shit, really/
[23:41:35] <XXCoder> dilios that print more dilios? :P
[23:41:40] <Sairon> ha
[23:41:41] <furrywolf> starting with, thinks... it was the irabbit or something like that, way back in the '90s, with a genuine 9-pin serial port.
[23:41:57] <Sairon> dang, you seem to know a lot about dildos
[23:42:21] <furrywolf> when you like women, and like penetrative sex, that tends to happen.
[23:42:39] <Sairon> i like women
[23:42:44] <Sairon> and penetrative sex
[23:42:55] <toastyde1th> step yo game up
[23:42:55] <Sairon> but i don't know anything, really, about dildos
[23:42:58] <furrywolf> you know what I mean. :P
[23:43:08] <furrywolf> well, get one, and then you'll know more. :P
[23:43:13] <Sairon> true
[23:43:46] <XXCoder> you a man or lady fur
[23:44:45] * furrywolf is soft and fluffy
[23:45:37] <Sairon> what just happened?
[23:46:07] <zeeshan|2> soft and fluffy to me means chubby
[23:46:07] <zeeshan|2> haha
[23:46:20] <Sairon> lol
[23:46:37] <furrywolf> no. lol
[23:46:37] <XXCoder> heh
[23:47:06] <Sairon> to me it means "pillow"
[23:47:16] <XXCoder> well youre probably first furry I ever met. I think furry is strange thing but whatever as long as everyone consented
[23:47:25] <XXCoder> if I take what you said correctly
[23:48:02] <Sairon> oh, furries
[23:48:08] <furrywolf> as it turns out, furry doesn't have much to do with sex, despite what you're implying with the "as long as everyone consented".
[23:48:11] <Sairon> we have that convention here every year
[23:48:20] <XXCoder> yiff yiff
[23:48:24] <XXCoder> but yeah
[23:48:56] <Sairon> anthrocon
[23:49:02] <XXCoder> we tend to hear more about mproe perverted of any groups
[23:49:05] <XXCoder> because well sex lol
[23:52:59] <XXCoder> https://i.chzbgr.com/maxW500/5983172096/hE25FA8C9/ LOL
[23:53:08] <XXCoder> now thats awkward family poc
[23:53:10] <XXCoder> pic
[23:53:14] <furrywolf> bbl, wolfy bedtime
[23:53:18] <XXCoder> night
[23:53:50] <Sairon> sleep well
[23:54:26] <Sairon> http://i3.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/original/000/886/354/6a6.gif
[23:54:59] <XXCoder> okay now thats good wtfy pic
[23:55:03] <XXCoder> night all heh