#linuxcnc | Logs for 2015-01-04

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[00:00:26] <zeeshan|2> imm move the vertical head after
[00:00:30] <zeeshan|2> everything is running :P
[00:01:41] <bobo_> every thing ? life is short
[03:08:24] <Deejay> moin
[03:17:11] <G0704> hii
[03:42:04] <G0704> hi
[03:43:19] <Deejay> hi
[03:46:09] <G0704> what is the alternative to the servo motors?
[03:46:22] <G0704> i have about 1500 for motors
[03:47:06] <Deejay> i think that depends on your machine
[03:47:11] * Deejay uses stepper motors :)
[03:47:13] <G0704> G0704
[03:48:04] <G0704> I've order from automationtechnologiesinc
[03:48:21] <G0704> and get junk
[03:48:40] <G0704> I've order the kit.
[03:49:23] <G0704> to send it back going to cost me about the price of the ballscrew.
[03:49:45] <G0704> so I'm basiclly stuck with it :(
[03:50:42] <G0704> I need about 600 oz/in motor.
[03:51:16] <G0704> do you think the geako G320X is good option?
[03:52:17] <Deejay> sorry, no idea :/
[03:56:40] <G0704> what machine you have?
[03:57:59] <G0704> in cnczone you dont have freedom of speech, they censored people
[06:01:51] <anonimas1> pcw_home: are you there?
[07:24:25] <jdh> my g0704 steppers came from automationtechnologies
[07:25:41] <Jymmm> archivist: Stirling Engine http://www.dxsoul.com/product/neje-diy-mini-hot-air-stirling-engine-motor-model-toy-antique-copper-silver-grey-901365004
[07:32:32] <archivist> there is no "Antique Copper" in that at all
[07:32:52] <Jymmm> hahahahaha
[07:33:03] <Jymmm> Thought you would get a kick out of it =)
[07:33:37] <archivist> a water elbow
[07:33:47] <SpeedEvil> Sure tehre is.
[07:33:49] <SpeedEvil> Due to recycling
[07:35:03] <archivist> aint nuffink antique after melting down
[07:44:27] <SpeedEvil> Everyone alive contains a significant number of atoms from Adolf hitler.
[08:22:55] <somenewguy> well, depending on your definition of significant
[08:23:13] <SpeedEvil> More than I can count without using scientific notation.
[08:24:55] <somenewguy> heh
[10:09:05] <CaptHindsight> where are all the 3-8KW versions of those Stirling Engines?
[10:14:24] <malcom2073> They're on solar dishes
[10:14:32] <archivist> where is the Philips stirling engine now
[10:15:13] <malcom2073> CaptHindsight: 25kw enough? http://www.unitedsunsystems.com/
[10:32:30] <malcom2073> Anyone know where I can get 3d models for THK rail carriages? Their website has modles for the rails themselves, but not the carriages
[10:33:24] <archivist> cant take more than a few minutes to draw up
[10:33:53] <malcom2073> I'm fairly new and low at modeling, figured I'd ask before I spent the time doing so :)
[10:50:41] <G0704> hi
[11:05:24] <alex____w> morning
[11:06:44] <CaptHindsight> malcom2073: 3-5x too large, any idea of that 25kw versions price?
[11:09:43] <malcom2073> CaptHindsight: Not a clue, probably in the tens of thousands
[11:17:50] <Deejay__> re
[11:18:21] <CaptHindsight> http://www.genoastirling.com/engine-available.php actual pricing
[11:19:32] <CaptHindsight> Operating temperature:(hot side) 750 °C
[11:20:11] <Tom_itx> malcom2073, did you look in here: https://tech.thk.com/index_en.php
[11:22:07] <malcom2073> weird, I had found 3d models of the rails on their website before, and had not had to log in
[11:22:12] <malcom2073> gotta create an account to download it from there...
[11:22:29] <malcom2073> Ah well I'll give that a shot
[12:22:26] <tjtr33> where is halcompile? i just made a new git-rip install(make & setuid), then 'cd linuxcnc-dev' , then '. scripts/rip-environment',
[12:22:26] <tjtr33> but 'sudo halcompile blah.comp' gets me 'sudo: halcompile: command not found'
[12:26:35] <tjtr33> eh> halcompile is in linuxcnc-dev/bin/ but sourcing the rip-env script doesnt 'find' it !?!
[12:30:40] <tjtr33> hmm, cant sudo that cmd now bad old docs floating around
[12:34:54] <tjtr33> the 'man halcompile' synopsis is misleading it shows "sudo halcompile --install --userspace cfile..."
[12:35:26] <tjtr33> but skipping the sudo 'works'
[12:36:12] <CaptHindsight> isn't it another thing that is not supposed to run as root?
[12:36:27] <CaptHindsight> I forget what parts are and aren't
[12:40:53] <furrywolf> it's better to grind flats on stepper motor shafts rather than leave them smooth, right?
[12:41:27] <archivist> depends on the drive coupler
[12:41:34] <marmite> i hate china
[12:41:49] <marmite> https://www.dropbox.com/s/jckoc3dz2v6mw1m/20150104_185908.jpg?dl=0 china psu
[12:42:02] <tjtr33> CaptHindsight, Jepler's talk notes show sudo if installed from cd, and not sudo if rip ( thats intuitive ;)
[12:42:05] <marmite> belive i have just blown my driver for my router
[12:42:17] <furrywolf> archivist: a timing pulley with a set screw
[12:42:42] <furrywolf> marmite: my chinese breakout board exploded 30mins after starting to use it.
[12:43:08] <archivist> furrywolf, in that case a dimple or two
[12:43:12] <marmite> furrywolf: sweet
[12:43:19] <marmite> mine has worked for 2 years _:D
[12:43:25] <marmite> and the drivers
[12:43:28] <archivist> I had a psu explode nicely
[12:43:37] <marmite> but wanted a 42 v psu
[12:44:15] <furrywolf> http://fw.bushytails.net/bbcaps/bbcap02.jpg
[12:44:57] <tjtr33> hehe the marconi confetti generator
[12:45:02] <marmite> 48
[12:45:16] <marmite> haha _:DD wth
[12:45:22] <marmite> is yhat a capactiro?
[12:45:24] <marmite> cap
[12:45:26] <archivist> was
[12:45:33] <marmite> cute
[12:45:35] <furrywolf> I'm building my own psu... got a 40vac transformer, 50a rectifier, 37000uf cap, 75v zener, and a fuse holder. :)
[12:45:43] <marmite> gotta love those china caps
[12:45:51] <furrywolf> yes, was.
[12:45:52] <marmite> oh nice
[12:45:55] <marmite> ring transformer?
[12:46:01] <marmite> allways loved them _:D
[12:46:02] <Tom_itx> furrywolf, what's the zenner for?
[12:46:07] <archivist> hardly need the zener
[12:46:15] <furrywolf> I'm hoping my simple unregulated power supply is a fair bit more reliable!
[12:46:27] <archivist> better to make a crowbar
[12:46:30] <CaptHindsight> isn't it better that they fail obviously rather than slowly and silently and allow ripple?
[12:46:38] <furrywolf> tom: to make sure the voltage doesn't go over the drive's 80v rating during braking.
[12:46:47] <marmite> well allways use diodes
[12:46:56] <marmite> allways a god secure safty
[12:47:06] <marmite> yeah
[12:47:13] <tjtr33> maybe add a bleed resistor for discharging
[12:47:29] <marmite> oh good idea
[12:47:40] <Tom_itx> i don't know enough about back emf
[12:47:47] <Tom_itx> i know diodes help
[12:47:48] <CaptHindsight> furrywolf: I have one of those poorly documented BOB's as well on my desk
[12:47:51] <furrywolf> archivist: a crowbar is for protecting against regulator failure... this isn't regulated. I just want to make sure it can bleed off a little extra power if, say, I stop all three axises (axi? axes?) from full speed all at once with a big heavy block of steel on the table...
[12:47:59] <marmite> and think of the gap betwen rails
[12:48:19] <furrywolf> my tests show my drivers do an excellent job bleeding the supply all on their own. not too worried there.
[12:48:43] <furrywolf> capt: this one came with decent documentation
[12:49:20] <marmite> ppl are bad at making holes in there pcb _:/
[12:49:23] <furrywolf> there's not much to document... it has one jumper, and the connections are labeled with the parallel port pin they're connected to. heh.
[12:49:50] <marmite> dont know whats it called in english _:D but when you cut out a piece of the pcb so there is a larger surfance distans between leads
[12:50:04] <CaptHindsight> I have the exact same one , Mach3 v1.1 0302
[12:50:23] <marmite> http://tpucdn.com/reviews/FSP/AURUM_92_650W/images/in_main_PCB_close3_small.jpg lik this one
[12:50:27] <marmite> with the opto coupler
[12:50:43] <furrywolf> https://onedrive.live.com/view.aspx?resid=88FB603BF7956247!186&app=WordPdf&authkey=!APSeNu5hZHOhv5k is the link mine came with
[12:50:55] <tjtr33> marmite i've seen that, the dielectric constant of air is a pretty good resistor
[12:51:09] <furrywolf> I found it more than adequate to connect it.
[12:51:12] <marmite> yes it is ^^ tjtr33
[12:51:57] <marmite> and if you do your own pcb´its reather easy to make aswell
[12:52:02] <CaptHindsight> furrywolf: I usually RE the design to really see what they did
[12:52:38] <CaptHindsight> I especially enjoy the ones that have jumpers that let you short power to ground
[12:53:00] <CaptHindsight> or bypass all the optoisolation
[12:53:19] <furrywolf> capt: this one is pretty trivial... the lm317 supplies 10v for the inputs. the outputs are only buffered, not isolated, with the buffer chips running off the power pins from the usb connector, which are also wired to the pc5v terminals if you don't want to use the usb cable.
[12:54:03] <furrywolf> I didn't analyze the 0-10v output, not having a variable frequency drive, but it looks like a simple opamp constant current charging/discharging a cap, to turn the pwm into a voltage.
[12:54:12] <CaptHindsight> furrywolf: are you sure, there are lots of clueless "engineers" that lay those boards out
[12:54:20] <furrywolf> am I sure about what?
[12:55:08] <CaptHindsight> it might actually have those part numbers but you might be surprised by how they actually connect them
[12:55:27] <furrywolf> ... there's really not a lot of parts on the board. lol
[12:55:39] <CaptHindsight> it doesn't take much
[12:56:42] <furrywolf> I briefly analyzed everything but the spindle control when I was hooking it up... it works in the obvious fashion. the 10v is an odd voltage to use for the switch inputs, and should be kept in mind if you wire it to anything non-mechanical.
[12:57:11] <skunkworks> we have a few of those also. they seem to work ok.. http://youtu.be/HPzow8L1dxw?t=52s
[12:57:35] <furrywolf> the jumper just disconnects the relay so you don't try pwming its coil.
[12:57:40] <CaptHindsight> http://www.ebay.com/itm/Upgraded-5-Axis-CNC-Breakout-Board-for-Stepper-Motor-Driver-Mach3-USB-Cable-/310702269807 $14.20
[12:58:09] <CaptHindsight> I think it came with tiny CD
[12:58:21] <furrywolf> you can't use the spindle control and the B axis at the same time
[12:58:40] <CaptHindsight> http://www.ebaypa.com/albums/20120005/sku062631_19.jpg
[12:59:13] <furrywolf> ok. and?
[12:59:35] * furrywolf has lost track of what capt's point is
[13:00:11] <SpeedEvil> furrywolf: http://xkcd.com/365/
[13:01:43] <CaptHindsight> don't be surprised by pointless jumpers, lack of isolation, and other odd design choices on those boards
[13:02:36] <furrywolf> capt: I don't know about other boards... I know this board has one jumper which serves a useful, obvious function, and what is and isn't isolated is obvious. the step/dir/enable/etc outputs are not isolated, while the inputs and spindle control are.
[13:02:47] <CaptHindsight> there seems to be about 5-6 cheap BOB's being sold, I'm trying to get around to a wiki page for each
[13:02:53] <archivist> and you end up with too much series R to your driver optos
[13:03:37] <CaptHindsight> since it confuses people that don't have an electronics background and the docs don't help them either
[13:04:03] <CaptHindsight> and they come here for help wiring them up
[13:04:03] <archivist> reason both the BOB and driver carry a series R suitable for 5v
[13:04:27] <furrywolf> arch: which is why it uses a pair of octal bus drivers.
[13:04:50] <tjtr33> archivist, solder shorting wire across one res?
[13:05:12] <furrywolf> powered off the usb plug or the pc5v terminals. (they're just wired together)
[13:05:21] <archivist> tjtr33, Ii can deal with that sort of problem noobs cannot
[13:05:35] <tjtr33> yah, understood
[13:05:38] <furrywolf> there's no resistors on the outputs. it just runs the bus drivers out.
[13:07:24] <furrywolf> I don't have any complaints about the design of the board... just a serious one about the substandard and counterfeit components installed on it!
[13:08:25] <CaptHindsight> $15 with shiiping from China that will cost you $20 ti return by USPS and take 30+ days
[13:08:58] <CaptHindsight> that's also on their business plan
[13:09:37] <furrywolf> the auction you pasted is $15 with shipping from the US. in fact, that's the exact auction I bought mine from. and I got a refund without having to return the board, after it exploded.
[13:09:45] <furrywolf> I think it took about three days to get here.
[13:09:48] <CaptHindsight> nice
[13:09:52] <tjtr33> dunno if its planned but its sure is an advantatge for China ( fast & cheap out, slow & expensive return )
[13:10:24] <furrywolf> I still have it, but it's non-functional in other ways... the exploded cap was a short, and took the lm317 out with it. lm317s are supposed to current limit into a short, but this is a chinese counterfeit...
[13:10:41] <furrywolf> there's now 0V on the 10V rail, so it doesn't work very well...
[13:10:49] <CaptHindsight> 2-3 day Fedex only costs me $50-75 for 2Kg from China, why is it >$150 going the other way?
[13:11:15] <furrywolf> it's also possible the lm317 originally failed shorted instead of open, causing the cap to pop, which then shorted, and caused the lm317 to open...
[13:11:24] <archivist> china has some sort of export subsidy on the postage
[13:11:59] <SpeedEvil> IIRC M317 doesn't current limit
[13:12:02] <SpeedEvil> it thermally limits
[13:12:14] <SpeedEvil> But yes - it shold not explode
[13:12:37] <furrywolf> I don't know the sequence of events, but I do know the cap catastrophically failed (it bent the can of the cap next to it!), and the lm317 is now open.
[13:12:38] <CaptHindsight> when I receive packages in China I pay 10% duty, even if the item is a sample, then they charge 10% of the postage
[13:12:57] <furrywolf> the entire board was covered in cap guts
[13:13:02] <tjtr33> trick: mark returns as 'parts' to lower costs at customs ( not faster, but cheaper a bit )
[13:13:45] <furrywolf> I got a replacement board... going to toss some new caps on it before powering it up.
[13:13:59] <Rab> furrywolf, input or output cap?
[13:14:18] <CaptHindsight> tjtr33: ever bring a small potted plant back from Asia to get through customs back here faster?
[13:14:57] <furrywolf> rab: the cap that popped was the filter for the 10v rail, provided by an lm317.
[13:14:58] <tjtr33> wash till bare roots & i got one thru, other times confiscated. depends on the attitude of agent
[13:15:18] <Rab> furrywolf, I understand that. So, output?
[13:15:45] <CaptHindsight> you can't bring the plant in so you have them toss it and you walk out, the line is usually shorter when you declare something
[13:15:48] <furrywolf> yes, output of the lm317.
[13:16:22] <CaptHindsight> tjtr33: so it was the soil they were more concerned about
[13:16:58] <tjtr33> yep dirt is nono, and yes, the short line trick: declare a 10$ item, and they say 'getouttahere' ;)
[13:17:32] <XXCoder> nice tip
[13:17:42] <XXCoder> $10 express line
[13:17:53] <tjtr33> ymmv
[13:18:18] <CaptHindsight> I also never get stopped beyond "are these your only bags" when all I have are carry on
[13:19:05] * furrywolf can't afford international travel, so has never been through customs
[13:19:06] <tjtr33> ah, tools is a problem... whats this? its a mu meter, whats it for ... argh
[13:19:22] <CaptHindsight> I ship tools or leave them
[13:20:22] <CaptHindsight> tjtr33: do they ever ask you what you do for work?
[13:20:51] <tjtr33> haha thats same thing. EDM whats that? dian wah!
[13:20:57] <furrywolf> I wish I could afford to travel. :(
[13:21:17] <tjtr33> furrywolf, i'm just a repairman with a long commute, nothing to envy
[13:21:38] <CaptHindsight> I work outside the US so I can afford to travel
[13:21:52] <furrywolf> I work for minimum wage driving a delivery van. trust me, your job inspires envy. :P
[13:22:20] <XXCoder> minium wage operating cnc machine here
[13:22:26] <CaptHindsight> US coo's don't want to pay for anything
[13:22:32] <CaptHindsight> co's
[13:22:36] <XXCoder> intern heh
[13:23:08] <tjtr33> well, machine repair can get you travel, and there's job opps now. tho most companies want you independant ( no medical )
[13:24:28] <CaptHindsight> I think it was the late 90's when R&D became gambling since most managers can't tell the difference between someone that knows what they are doing and doesn't, they seem to think a degree is a degree, especially in science and engineering
[13:24:31] <tjtr33> if you can build a linuxcnc system, you got the skills needed. if you have retrofit a real machine, then you have experience
[13:25:09] <tjtr33> degrees are not found on the guys in the field. bench guys have degrees
[13:29:50] <furrywolf> I think I'll replace the counterfeit 220uf 16v caps with name-brand 68uf 26v caps... because that's what I have, and they probably have lower esr anyway...
[13:30:19] <CaptHindsight> I get offered permanent positions all the time, but they only want to pay peanuts
[13:30:47] <CaptHindsight> hire you to finish whatever their masterminds can't and then let you go
[13:31:15] <CaptHindsight> in the US anyway
[13:32:36] <PetefromTn_> doing just machine repair?
[13:32:55] <mttr> anyone using rhino out there
[13:33:05] <CaptHindsight> design, engineering etc
[13:34:29] <CaptHindsight> build some machine or automation system on a production line
[13:35:56] <Tom_itx> or build the production line...
[13:36:12] <CaptHindsight> pay you $60K/year but only want you for 6-9 months to build a $500K machine for less
[13:36:38] <furrywolf> ... 6-9 months at $60k/year would be three years of my income.
[13:36:53] <CaptHindsight> then they call you back a year later to fix the mess they tried to build
[13:40:02] * furrywolf lacks sympathy
[13:40:47] <furrywolf> you're bitching about only making three years of my income in half a year?
[13:40:49] <CaptHindsight> the point was the cheapness of most companies
[13:41:17] <furrywolf> that's not cheapness. that's incredibly well-paying.
[13:41:32] <Rab> furrywolf, you're bitching about someone being paid more for more complex work?
[13:42:24] <CaptHindsight> furrywolf: then there's lots of work for you out there
[13:43:25] <Tom_itx> CaptHindsight, how much should it be worth?
[13:43:52] <furrywolf> rab: I'm bitching about his bitching that it's poor pay, not about the pay itself.
[13:43:53] <CaptHindsight> up to you
[13:44:02] <tjtr33> mttr i'd like to use rhino, and grasshopper , buts its on that other operating system. ( way cool tho )
[13:44:55] <Tom_itx> permanent positions are becoming more scarce
[13:45:07] <mttr> i run it on a vm and does work you have to use vmware though as virtualbox does not do 3d
[13:45:27] <tjtr33> oh thx, will try then
[13:45:42] <mttr> i'm having an issue with naked edges even on simple objects
[13:46:04] <Tom_itx> and there's the whole retirement / pension thing that killed detroit
[13:46:37] <CaptHindsight> and playing the derivatives market
[13:46:40] <Rab> furrywolf, it might actually be poor pay. If you're, say, 45yo and supporting a family, and it took you 20 years to acquire the skills to do the job, there are more considerations in play than "well that's 4x minimum wage, what's the problem".
[13:47:21] <furrywolf> rab: guess what? 45 year-olds supporting familys often end up working for minimum wage too.
[13:47:26] <furrywolf> families
[13:48:26] <CaptHindsight> I'm just pointing out the situation. It's up to you to ignore it and do nothing about it.
[13:49:16] <Tom_itx> you want a guaranteed wage with a 5-10yr buyout contract?
[13:49:32] <Tom_itx> starting to sound like major sports
[13:49:39] <furrywolf> lol
[13:50:41] <CaptHindsight> Africa is staring to look interesting since China is just starting to exploit it
[13:53:02] <CaptHindsight> Vietnam for automation and manufacturing
[13:54:20] <tjtr33> Will China realize Africa just doesnt have skilled workers, and grab Thailand-Vietnam?
[13:55:47] <CaptHindsight> tjtr33: they just trade infrastructure for resources
[13:56:29] <tjtr33> yah didnt think that thru
[13:58:04] <CaptHindsight> aren't there lots of jobs here in health care, surveillance and munitions?
[14:00:22] <furrywolf> bbl, making a $2 breakfast in the microwave.
[14:00:28] <CaptHindsight> how did I forget the biggest one, finance
[14:00:49] <Rab> There's a neat SF novel, Stand On Zanzibar, which describes a private company taking over and bootstrapping an African nation for cheap manufacturing.
[14:06:42] <CaptHindsight> Rab: from 1968
[14:06:49] <CaptHindsight> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stand_on_Zanzibar
[14:06:55] <tjtr33> linuxcnc originally appealed to me as a sort of socialistic DIY revolution. power to the people! shoes for the people! and Ray Henry was the evangelista showing people how to do it.
[14:08:06] <tjtr33> ^^^ thats science fiction, when you get right on the edge, its half real, half in your head, some you can touch, the rest you imagine ( real sci fi )
[14:08:27] <CaptHindsight> I used to read lots of SF from the 40's-70's, I was surprised by how much dystopia has actually taken place and by how many actually support it against their own interests.
[14:09:20] <tjtr33> had to google it "an imagined place or state in which everything is unpleasant or bad, typically a totalitarian or environmentally degraded one."
[14:09:21] <CaptHindsight> tjtr33: was it a personal project that became part of his guberment job or?
[14:09:50] <CaptHindsight> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dystopia
[14:10:16] <tjtr33> no Ray was a leader in the early EMC days, with John Kasunich & Matt Shaffer ( ? spelling )
[14:10:38] <CaptHindsight> http://linuxcnc.org/docs/html/common/emc-history.html
[14:12:18] <CaptHindsight> ah, Fred Proctor was with NIST
[14:13:04] <tjtr33> one of the early servers used by EMC was named Zelazny
[14:13:19] <cradek> I tried to contact ray to wish him happy christmas, but failed to find him
[14:13:25] <cradek> has anyone talked to him recently?
[14:14:02] <tjtr33> Merry Christmas Ray! best of the new year to you!
[14:14:33] <tjtr33> no havent heard for years now, last comm was about Cardinal engineering's Roland getting better after heart attack
[14:17:40] <tjtr33> maybe Jon knows?
[14:18:07] <cradek> I found a different email to try
[14:18:29] <tjtr33> say hi & thx
[14:19:51] <CaptHindsight> tjtr33: linuxcnc seems to be accepted in Taiwan, do you find any resistance to it here?
[14:20:22] <CaptHindsight> besides it being non traditional Fanuc, Seimens etc
[14:21:41] <gene78> Have I got a bug in the current 2.6.5? I have a subroutine that sets G91, G91.1 at the top, then drills a counterbore.
[14:21:56] <PetefromTn_> CaptHindsight Well I hate to say it but for once I completely agree with you LOL
[14:21:56] <CaptHindsight> on the mainland they seem to lean towards Mach or home grown if it's not Fanuc, Seimens etc
[14:22:57] <gene78> The instant it comes back from subroutine call, it restores to G90, G90.1 so it can position absolute for the next of 9 steps of this.
[14:24:07] <gene78> but the counterbore is a 50% error when I try to load it.
[14:25:08] <Loetmichel> *soooo...* done... and my desk ist covered in wood dust from sanding that thing off... now my wife can store her tablets/laptops/ tv remotes/ cellhones over the nightstand and doesent trow it to the ground every night ;-)
[14:25:16] <Loetmichel> http://www.cyrom.org/palbum/main.php?g2_itemId=15499&g2_imageViewsIndex=1
[14:26:12] <tjtr33> CaptHindsight, I tried to contact YiShin Li ( arais robo) no luck. there's a govt cnc from MIRL or ITRI but it sucks. all advantech pcbs.
[14:30:49] <CaptHindsight> tjtr33: the big machines in China get name brand controls, the small stuff tends to get proprietary stuff written for an ARM board (like reprap)
[14:31:21] <gene78> Have I got a bug in the current 2.6.5? I have a subroutine that sets G91, G91.1 at the top, then drills a counterbore.
[14:31:26] <gene78> The instant it comes back from subroutine call, it restores to G90, G90.1 so it can position absolute for the next of 9 steps of this.
[14:31:30] <gene78> but the counterbore is a 50% error when I try to load it.
[14:32:05] <gene78> Anybody?
[14:32:16] <CaptHindsight> the feedback I hear about Linuxcnc is "not many people can use Linux" and for smaller machines they are more concerned about getting copied instantly by their competitors
[14:32:43] <roycroft> that's ridiculous
[14:32:49] <roycroft> *nix is easy to use
[14:32:57] <CaptHindsight> so they want something harder to copy, ARM and something proprietary
[14:32:58] <XXCoder> linux is bit complex but so are windows. people just usually have more experence on windows.
[14:33:00] <roycroft> it's windows that's so difficult to deal with
[14:33:25] <gene78> totally
[14:33:38] <CaptHindsight> it's just what I have been told when I bring it up
[14:33:49] <roycroft> industry metrics show that shops that move from *nux to windows have to increase their it staffing by 50%
[14:34:16] <XXCoder> probably because theres more crapware for windows
[14:34:32] <roycroft> also it takes so much longer to do anything
[14:34:48] <roycroft> my classic example is a customer who was setting up dns zone files on a windows server
[14:34:54] <roycroft> the process was insane
[14:35:10] <roycroft> he would click click click click click like mad to get to the point of defining a rr
[14:35:11] <LeelooMinai> roycroft: What is that strange planet you live on? :) Can one buy a ticket and fly there3 somehow? :p
[14:35:17] <roycroft> then click on a button to enter the host name
[14:35:23] <roycroft> click on a button to add the rr type
[14:35:39] <roycroft> when it came to the ip address, click on a button to enter the first octet
[14:35:45] <roycroft> click on a button to enter the second octet
[14:35:46] <roycroft> etc.
[14:36:00] <roycroft> it took about a minute of mad clicking to add a single rr to the zone file
[14:36:11] <roycroft> i can do that in about 4 seconds with a text editor on a *nix machine
[14:37:49] <CaptHindsight> I think that they would be better of focusing on the actual technology that they are controlling vs concern over the software controlling it
[14:39:01] <tjtr33> on a CNC machine running RTX over Windows, the user never sees Windows, as users neednt see linux with RTAI. its fear, no real basis.
[14:39:10] <CaptHindsight> most of the time they don't really see or understand the difference between a machine that works well for year vs decades
[14:40:25] <roycroft> i agree that a turn-key application like a cnc controller need not directly expose the user to the operating system, rendering an argument about how windows is perceived to be more "user friendly" moot
[14:41:02] <roycroft> at which point it boils down to the development environment and system administration
[14:41:13] <LeelooMinai> UNless you need to deal with installing and maintaing the software.
[14:41:30] <roycroft> both of which are much easier on a *nix platform than on widows
[14:41:34] <roycroft> windows
[14:42:12] <LeelooMinai> That's questionable I guess:)
[14:42:17] <roycroft> no it's not
[14:42:29] <roycroft> facts are not arguable
[14:42:33] <tjtr33> hey how about them bears?
[14:42:40] <tjtr33> :)
[14:42:49] <roycroft> the problem is that a lot of developers were raised on windows, and don't know that there are easier/more robust environments
[14:42:50] <CaptHindsight> I was thinking the resistance there might be that Linuxcnc is an old US guberment project
[14:43:10] <roycroft> and that is a valid argument to make - it's easier to find windows programming talent than *nix programming talent
[14:43:14] <tjtr33> oh, which comes from the 'we cant export 5 axis tech'?
[14:43:53] <CaptHindsight> heh
[14:43:54] <LeelooMinai> roycroft: Not for the desktop machines.
[14:44:04] <CaptHindsight> like they don't make it already for years
[14:44:40] <XXCoder> linuxcnc was old goverment project
[14:44:41] <XXCoder> ?
[14:44:43] <roycroft> i won't bother arguing with you on that point leeloominai
[14:44:55] <roycroft> because the discussion at hand is a turn-key cnc application
[14:45:02] <roycroft> not a general purpose desktop machien
[14:45:20] <CaptHindsight> XXCoder: http://linuxcnc.org/docs/html/common/emc-history.html
[14:45:42] <roycroft> not arguing with you does not mean i'm conceding on that point - i disagree with you completely, but i'm not going to pursue it as it would be out of the scope of this channel
[14:46:03] <CaptHindsight> it's anything goes Sunday
[14:46:31] <roycroft> does disdain for things that came from the government mean that we should reject the internet, capthindsight? :)
[14:47:01] <XXCoder> CaptHindsight: interesting read. thanks
[14:47:06] <roycroft> ip networking - government
[14:47:08] <roycroft> dns - government
[14:47:10] <roycroft> smtp - government
[14:47:12] <roycroft> www - government
[14:47:13] <roycroft> :)
[14:47:25] <XXCoder> arpanet
[14:47:31] <tjtr33> arpanet government yay gopher
[14:47:37] <CaptHindsight> roycroft: I was referring the mainland China
[14:47:47] <roycroft> mainland china use the internet
[14:47:51] <CaptHindsight> the / to
[14:48:06] <roycroft> but that's ok
[14:48:08] <CaptHindsight> and their opposition to Linuxcnc
[14:48:18] <roycroft> the chinese do not have a monopoly on hypocracy
[14:48:30] <tjtr33> CaptHindsight, i always thought the objection was its free
[14:48:31] <XXCoder> I wish that was true roy
[14:48:42] <roycroft> as opposed to stolen?
[14:48:44] <tjtr33> and thats just too weird for CHinese biz man
[14:49:07] <CaptHindsight> tjtr33: heh, I guess it's only worth copying if it's expensive
[14:49:11] <roycroft> "we can't use linuxcnc because we can't steal it from american capitalists"
[14:49:46] <XXCoder> chinalinuxcnc
[14:50:13] <CaptHindsight> CaptitalistCNC
[14:50:16] <roycroft> if it makes the chinese feel any better they can go back to calling it emc
[14:50:38] <roycroft> since there's a trademark issue there
[14:50:49] <roycroft> a trademark violation is almost as good as theft of intellectual proerty
[14:50:51] <roycroft> property
[14:51:04] <XXCoder> cemc or emcc heh
[14:51:42] * roycroft has an appointment with his welding gear that he needs to keep, and so ceases from further fanning any flames
[14:52:12] * XXCoder turns on kiln blower to increase heat
[14:55:27] <tjtr33> welding... i wanna linuxcnc cnc a Multiplaz torch
[14:55:51] <tjtr33> cut weld braze solder... rule the world!
[14:58:26] <_methods> man i missed all that excitement
[15:01:27] <XXCoder> wow http://www.cracked.com/photoplasty_1228_the-24-most-satisfying-gifs-machines-in-action/
[15:01:37] <XXCoder> last one of that page
[15:04:29] <bobo_> CaptHindsight How hard is it now vers pre 9-11 to travel as a Tech person, and take along needed equipment ?
[15:06:11] <CaptHindsight> bobo_: it's harder overall but sometimes I go right through x-ray with positioners and a complete Linuxcnc controller without any questions...
[15:06:52] <CaptHindsight> other times they just want it out of the bag and in a tray, they don't even pull the covers to look inside
[15:07:16] <tjtr33> its much harder for me (USA) to repair machines in CA since 1990's. i dont think its 9-11 related, just protectionism. you cant carry hand tools on board, and packing them is expensive.
[15:07:27] <tjtr33> and airlines destroy scopes
[15:08:18] <CaptHindsight> I once carried on 70 lbs of cnc parts right through Laguardia. I thought the flight attendant was going to get a hernia moving my bag in the overhead
[15:08:57] <CaptHindsight> and other times my sons bag would be hand checked due to an energy bar in one of the pockets :)
[15:10:40] <tjtr33> haha bill murray... its only a baby ruth
[15:10:50] <CaptHindsight> and not for the PS2 and monitor with 4 hr play time battery in the other bag
[15:10:55] <CaptHindsight> heh
[15:11:20] <bobo_> CaptHindsight I have been told that a comp. can have personel go thru some Goverment thing --get background check -finger print -photo I.D. --etc . Resulting in less greef
[15:11:55] <tjtr33> true, special pass
[15:13:04] <CaptHindsight> yeah, you can apply online
[15:13:49] <CaptHindsight> but I have a nephew that is in military intelligence with a red diplomatic passport that still gets screened at times
[15:14:03] <CaptHindsight> so it all depends on who you get that day
[15:14:07] <bobo_> how usefull is "special pass " outside of the US ?
[15:14:18] <CaptHindsight> it's not
[15:14:37] <CaptHindsight> it's just within or coming and going
[15:14:54] <tjtr33> not useful inside either, only at edges :)
[15:15:13] <CaptHindsight> all flights to the USA get a second bag inspection right at the gate
[15:15:20] <CaptHindsight> at least from Asia
[15:15:21] <bobo_> Glad I am not involved any more
[15:15:33] <CaptHindsight> i never bothered
[15:15:55] <tjtr33> bbl menards is calling
[15:15:57] <CaptHindsight> i still have a year left on my rfid free passport
[15:18:11] <bobo_> I would think a rfid passport would not be a good thing
[15:19:33] <CaptHindsight> somebody got the contract, it was good for them
[15:23:13] <_methods> hehe
[15:23:44] <LeelooMinai> Is there anything alternative to AC spindle that could match it at milling aluminum on a hobby machine?
[15:24:09] <XXCoder> magic
[15:24:11] <XXCoder> jk
[15:25:34] <bobo_> CaptHindsight have you done very much busines traveling in europe?
[15:25:35] <XXCoder> how goes your table design
[15:26:14] <LeelooMinai> XXCoder: Savd some oney and ordered aluminum extrusions
[15:26:20] <LeelooMinai> For the table
[15:26:21] <XXCoder> nice
[15:26:55] <LeelooMinai> Now last thing is the spindle
[15:27:00] <_methods> freakin AC kickin on in january
[15:27:05] <_methods> that's classic
[15:29:19] <XXCoder> cant help on spidle heh - I just use trim router
[15:30:08] <LeelooMinai> I saw some BLDC motors used for small pllications, liek carving. That's pretty close to AC spindle, but without the need of VFD, but those motors are usually small.
[15:30:16] <LeelooMinai> applications*
[15:32:41] <LeelooMinai> Like this: http://www.aliexpress.com/item/Powerful-400W-CNC-12000RPM-Brushless-Air-cooled-DC-Spindle-Motor-with-Driver-High-speed-Long-life/32251014873.html
[15:32:54] <LeelooMinai> But I don't really know what to think about them
[15:34:05] <XXCoder> 107 not bad
[15:34:41] <LeelooMinai> Yes, much cheaper that AC spindle with VFD, but I don't know if that would mill anything:)
[15:35:04] <XXCoder> no idea. techinically anything that rotates can mill but wheather its good...
[15:35:07] <MarkusBec> its crap
[15:35:17] <LeelooMinai> Probably has much worse runout too.
[15:35:19] <MarkusBec> only standard ball bearings
[15:35:54] <MarkusBec> thats a cheap chines dc servo motor with a collet adapter
[15:36:16] <MarkusBec> connected by 1 screw
[15:36:29] <CaptHindsight> bobo_: mostly Asia, especially China since it's the tech wild west
[15:37:58] <LeelooMinai> MarkusBec: Ok, so that would mean what?
[15:38:26] <LeelooMinai> I ,eam in practical sense
[15:38:31] <LeelooMinai> mean*
[15:39:15] <CaptHindsight> it means that it will work ok for a short time
[15:39:26] <Rab> I'd like to find a source for just the collet adapter, to make light engraving spindles from motors on hand...might not perform well enough to merit any trouble, though.
[15:39:49] <CaptHindsight> if you get a good one (not dropped, not full of dirt in the bearings etc)
[15:40:20] <MarkusBec> it will work for short time
[15:40:34] <MarkusBec> less than 100h i think in millig operation
[15:40:40] <LeelooMinai> Could not one open it and clean everything, grease or what it needs, or maybe even use better bearings?
[15:40:50] <CaptHindsight> the owber of Automation Technologies is from China, and he even has to travel back regularly to deal with QC problems
[15:40:53] <MarkusBec> and it has a terrible runout
[15:41:53] <LeelooMinai> Right, well, I cannot really afford non-Chinese spindle - they have scary prices.
[15:42:05] <_methods> well that solves it then
[15:42:09] <_methods> buy a chinese one
[15:42:27] <bobo_> CaptHindsight interesting about China . would have thunk Japan would be # one player in asia
[15:43:14] <MarkusBec> the 800W chines spindles are "ok"
[15:43:43] <MarkusBec> http://www.alibaba.com/product-detail/GDZ-26-1-ac-800w-water_60131617712.html?s=p
[15:44:15] <MarkusBec> they have a bearing pair with 2 bearings next to the collet
[15:44:47] <MarkusBec> and VFDs are cheap and you need no powersupply
[15:45:18] <LeelooMinai> MarkusBec: I have problem with VFD as this is in my room, so only 110V
[15:45:56] <LeelooMinai> Unless I do something weird, like using transformer to get to 220V
[15:47:21] <MarkusBec> I think ther are 110V spindles available with 1 phase VFD
[15:47:56] <LeelooMinai> I think they usually do not reach 400Hz
[15:48:32] <MarkusBec> hm ok
[15:49:00] <MarkusBec> we have 220V 1 phase and 400V 3 phase its easy :)
[15:49:53] <MarkusBec> http://www.ebay.de/itm/2-2KW-AC110V-Variable-Frequency-Drive-VFD-for-CNC-Spindle-/121074203063?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item1c3095b9b7
[15:50:11] <MarkusBec> 110V 60hz to 400hz
[15:51:17] <LeelooMinai> It has 110V output it seems
[15:51:45] <MarkusBec> 110V in
[15:51:49] <MarkusBec> 110V out
[15:51:59] <MarkusBec> 0-110V out
[15:52:03] <LeelooMinai> No specs - since it takes 3 phase input too, some of those specs may be only for 3 phases
[15:52:25] <LeelooMinai> Yes, those AC spindles from China usually watn 220V
[15:52:57] <MarkusBec> yes but the seller of mine ask me if I want the 110V or 220V version
[15:53:00] <MarkusBec> of the spindle
[15:53:28] <LeelooMinai> What o you do with it?
[15:53:32] <LeelooMinai> do*
[15:55:03] <furrywolf> I wish there was some way to vary the speed of my capacitor start motors...
[15:55:48] <MarkusBec> LeelooMinai: I use it on my portal mill
[15:55:58] <MarkusBec> cfk gfk AL
[15:56:00] <MarkusBec> etc
[15:56:19] <LeelooMinai> And 800watt is ok for alu?
[15:56:24] <MarkusBec> 2.2
[15:56:38] <LeelooMinai> A, ok
[15:56:41] <MarkusBec> Loetmichel: use the 800W on a pocket mill for AL
[15:57:21] <LeelooMinai> So for alu, what speeds are usually used?
[15:57:56] <XXCoder> 4k to 8k?
[15:58:06] <MarkusBec> " it depends"
[15:58:24] <XXCoder> yeah my router lower limit is 8k. I'd have to adjust ipm and such to it
[15:58:32] <MarkusBec> with VHM and small diameter
[15:58:45] <MarkusBec> the limitation is the max rpm of the spindle
[15:58:52] <LeelooMinai> I ask because I think it's possible to under power/voltage those 2.2kw spidnles, but then they will not get to high speeds, like close to 20krpm
[15:59:24] <MarkusBec> yes that is possible
[16:00:12] <MarkusBec> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mqh5umWFeVg
[16:00:15] <MarkusBec> hm foud
[16:00:23] <MarkusBec> found that
[16:01:12] <MarkusBec> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mqh5umWFeVg
[16:01:21] <MarkusBec> hm 1,5kw 110V spindle
[16:01:36] <CaptHindsight> bobo_: they used to be, but they got too greedy and financially imploded in the 80's, setting a good example for the US to follow 20 years later
[16:02:08] <LeelooMinai> MarkusBec: On that video it seems not working:)
[16:02:39] <MarkusBec> yes
[16:03:12] <LeelooMinai> They mention some magic codes though
[16:04:35] <furrywolf> if I burn out my motors, I'll probably replace them with 3ph and VFD... but as much as I'd like to vary the speed, keeping the capacitor start spindle motors is $0.
[16:09:17] <Deejay> gn8
[16:10:25] <furrywolf> ok, I give up. is that supposed to be some way of abbreviating "goodnight" in a language where "8" is pronounced "ight"?
[16:10:57] <Jymmm> furrywolf: Yes, it's German. I asked him once.
[16:11:35] <furrywolf> that makes more sense, then. :)
[16:17:59] <MarkusBec> gnihihi
[16:18:19] <MarkusBec> gute nacht :)
[16:18:40] <MarkusBec> 8 => acht
[17:08:29] <somenewguy> I have an old P4 box that I pulled from teh trash cause it has the identical case to my current main pc and I needed some fan mounts, but it is still complete and a nice spacy case
[17:08:55] <somenewguy> a quick look in the land of jitter tests says my combo is likely fine for linuxcnc, but when I try to boot it my screen is black and no beeps
[17:09:16] <somenewguy> of course I stole the graphics card out of it, which is installed in my real linuxcnc machine lol, and the card i have in it now is some rando I had in a box, no clue if it works
[17:09:33] <somenewguy> anyone know if a motherboard should ALWAYS beep on powerup?
[17:09:46] <XXCoder> POST beep I'd say
[17:09:52] <XXCoder> being deaf I cant be certain
[17:10:15] <XXCoder> if more than one, ie 3 beeps or certain pattern beeps uts some kind of POST error
[17:10:33] <somenewguy> hehe ok, I am getting 0 beeps and wondering just how dead it may be, digging into the mobo manual now
[17:10:48] <somenewguy> its of the same vintage of my linuxcnc box, but that thing needs to be replaced, and didn't have room for all the boards I added
[17:11:23] <furrywolf> check for exploded caps on both the motherboard and power supply
[17:11:27] <furrywolf> also try another power supply
[17:11:35] <furrywolf> check to make sure cpu and ram are present and properly seated
[17:11:38] <XXCoder> caps cap off
[17:11:44] <furrywolf> check to make sure the beeper is connected, if in the case. :)
[17:11:47] <somenewguy> they are, fans spin up, and the vdrom sems to as well
[17:11:57] <somenewguy> beeper, funny one, thats what I was looking at now
[17:12:02] <somenewguy> my whole life I thought they were built into the mobo
[17:12:25] <somenewguy> untill I cleaned out my current pc and suddenly I had POST beeps, guesss I never installed the header right until dusting accidently seated it lol
[17:12:35] <XXCoder> heh I used to use led wired to beeper
[17:12:43] <XXCoder> so I could see post errors
[17:12:56] <XXCoder> lost it ages ago
[17:15:51] <somenewguy> hehe the mobo has an LED that only shows you if the psu is powered
[17:15:58] <somenewguy> to stop you from hotswapping ram and stuff
[17:16:27] <XXCoder> it does but if I recall it does not flash in pattern with any error
[17:16:37] <somenewguy> no, just power/nopower
[17:16:56] <somenewguy> I totally hotswapped an IDE HDD several years ago by accident
[17:17:12] <somenewguy> was late, forgot what stage of ON the machine was in, and pulled it and heard a sound change...
[17:17:12] <XXCoder> I made custom wire that uses speaker connector with led attchec to it
[17:17:32] <XXCoder> so when it tries to beep it will flash light
[17:18:31] <furrywolf> try new power supply, new cpu, new ram... but checked closely for bad caps first. any cap whose top is not perfectly flat is bad, or has any sign of leakage.
[17:19:22] <somenewguy> they seemed fine, but I'll take another look, I hope the mobo is healthy
[17:19:36] <somenewguy> most modern thing in my collection of junk, and I need to retire my current cnc box
[17:19:51] <somenewguy> oooh cool this one has a built in analog game port!
[17:20:38] <somenewguy> ....
[17:20:57] <somenewguy> been idling open on floor aobut 10 minutes while I waited to see if it turned up on the LAN
[17:21:09] <somenewguy> just powered down and poked the board, some of those components are HOT
[17:21:15] <somenewguy> I suspect its toast
[17:21:37] <somenewguy> like some of the caps are ~40c, that can't be right can it?
[17:22:08] <furrywolf> hot caps means bad caps or bad power supply caps... or both.
[17:22:36] <furrywolf> well, or severely overvoltaged, in which case every single thing in the box is toast...
[17:23:56] <somenewguy> yeah these are the big electrolytics near what look like power components
[17:24:05] <somenewguy> so methinks is kaput
[17:24:20] <furrywolf> try a new power supply
[17:24:40] <somenewguy> will do
[17:24:56] <somenewguy> maybe no I can at least throw away one of the P2s I've been saving for thier parallel ports aka I will never use
[17:25:22] <XXCoder> dead ps2?
[17:28:06] <XXCoder> wow quiet suddenly
[17:30:05] <somenewguy> no no, throw away perfectly working pentium IIs
[17:30:21] <somenewguy> I have a couple that I have had sitting around since ohhhh college I guess
[17:30:31] <somenewguy> I collected them when I thought I needed a working parallel port for a project
[17:30:31] <XXCoder> lol thought ya meant playstation2
[17:30:47] <somenewguy> ARGH non standard psu in that one, next victim
[17:31:05] <XXCoder> lol
[17:33:44] <_methods> http://www.msi.com/news/1885.html
[17:33:48] <_methods> oops
[17:33:51] <_methods> wrong room
[17:35:09] <furrywolf> take the power supply apart and see how exploded its caps are.
[17:41:04] <somenewguy> jesus christ what even is a PII
[17:41:15] <furrywolf> ?
[17:41:16] <somenewguy> can't rememver when the last time i looked in one of thtese was, but bizzare
[17:41:20] <somenewguy> the heatsink etc
[17:41:23] <somenewguy> slot mounted cpu
[17:41:27] <somenewguy> forgot that was a thing
[17:42:10] <furrywolf> lol
[17:42:39] <somenewguy> The PII is giving up its supply for the cause
[17:45:38] <somenewguy> good night sweet prince
[18:00:35] <XXCoder> somenewguy: heh I remember those. monstosity of pu
[18:00:50] <XXCoder> glad they stopped using the slot mount type
[18:01:20] <somenewguy> on the bright side, I now have like 100cm2 of heatsink in my parts bin
[18:01:34] <XXCoder> you ever melt alum into blocks?
[18:01:45] <somenewguy> no but I melted it into a banana once
[18:02:08] <XXCoder> mechamonkey wpould love it
[18:02:41] <somenewguy> haha yeap!
[18:02:58] <somenewguy> me and abuddy made a charcoal fired furnace once, melted down some VW parts and made some emblems and a banana
[18:03:30] <XXCoder> I do want to try it but around here it might not be good idea
[18:03:39] <XXCoder> I probably will do electric type
[18:03:46] <XXCoder> use some oven stuff
[18:04:11] <XXCoder> and flower pots
[18:04:33] <somenewguy> we used a 5ish gal steel pail, lined with cermaic wool
[18:04:59] <somenewguy> shopvac on a variac for the blower, and a flower pot crucible
[18:05:12] <XXCoder> I may use flame bricks and some of that cermic stuff that dont melt
[18:05:15] <somenewguy> we upgraded to a steel crucible since it got hot slow enough to not melt the crucible
[18:05:37] <somenewguy> I welded a steel plate to one end of a 2.1 cylinder, as it was the perfect size cruicible for the size of our furnace
[18:05:44] <somenewguy> couldnt' find a good sized ceramic, all too small or too big
[18:06:13] <XXCoder> cool. still havent figured the crucible part yet lol
[18:06:17] <somenewguy> cermaic wool worked great, but I suggest you make your furnace nice and big
[18:06:42] <somenewguy> a heavy steel item makes a decent crucible for a while, and the color of it will tell you about the temp in the oven
[18:06:52] <XXCoder> or just get regular kiln. its cheap if right timing and while it takes hours its very big and can hold lot.
[18:06:56] <somenewguy> but if you get it burning really hot, well, you won't have a cruible anymore
[18:07:20] <somenewguy> but the steel is so much more forgiving than a ceramic one, but a flower pot actually lasted a really long time, we shattered it with the tongs eventually, and it only held like half a pound of alu
[18:07:48] <somenewguy> do like the brick oven guys do, and just build some refactory bricks into a hill side/mound of dirt
[18:08:12] <somenewguy> when I was really into it I was about 3 months away from building one that burned waste oil
[18:08:17] <XXCoder> that I cannot do, rent land lol
[18:08:26] <somenewguy> but interest petered out a nd we stopped at charcoal
[18:09:54] <XXCoder> cool. im still unsure if I should even start lol
[18:10:05] <somenewguy> it is really fun
[18:10:09] <XXCoder> I still have serious problems with movivation
[18:10:15] <somenewguy> I wish I stilll had the furnace
[18:10:19] <somenewguy> lol i konw the feeling
[18:10:33] <somenewguy> I pulled the engine out of my car yesterday and really need to go seal it and reinstall, yet here I am building computers
[18:10:57] <XXCoder> lack of focus and "just get butt off" problems is bit different
[18:12:20] <XXCoder> im not sure why I cant do stuff
[19:05:17] <somenewguy> makes me sad this computer won't boot
[19:05:29] <somenewguy> I like that the fan outputs actually have a spec on how much power they can source
[19:05:48] <somenewguy> four million jumpers tho, no wonder the manual is 140 pages long
[19:08:16] <somenewguy> now since I am just running a mini mill, it occurs to me there is PLENTY of room in this case to stuff my 24 volt supply and gecko drivers
[19:08:23] <somenewguy> think that would be too noisy, or work just fine?
[19:08:41] <somenewguy> It looks like I'll need to buy a new mobo and processor tho
[19:10:05] <Tom_itx> if things are shielded and grounded properly it should work fine
[19:21:32] <XXCoder> somenewguy: just \get egg holder foam sheet
[19:21:49] <XXCoder> stick it on side safely away from computer stuff
[19:22:48] <XXCoder> like this http://www.alibaba.com/product-detail/egg-packaging-material-foam-sponge_1452997014.html?s=p
[19:32:25] <somenewguy> I meant electrical noise
[19:32:53] <somenewguy> its a work shop, anything quiter than a 2 stage comperssor in the next room is fine
[19:35:35] <XXCoder> oh yeah
[19:35:44] <XXCoder> sounds like something faraday cage would help
[19:37:10] <XXCoder> googling it up eh
[19:37:30] <CaptHindsight> somenewguy: I put stepper and servo drives into the same case as the PC all the time
[19:37:56] <CaptHindsight> you have to be sure you have enough airflow/cooling
[19:38:24] <CaptHindsight> but power and electrical noise has never been a problem for me
[19:39:20] <CaptHindsight> but people tend to have more problems by running 13ft of USB and VGA cable out to their monitor and keyboard :)
[19:40:59] <zeeshan|2> https://www.flickr.com/photos/128539016@N05/16013598720/
[19:41:02] <zeeshan|2> mill has new spot
[19:41:02] <zeeshan|2> :D
[19:41:17] <zeeshan|2> i call that the mill corner!
[19:41:27] <zeeshan|2> i should call it moose mill corner
[19:42:54] <Tom_itx> git rid of that car in the way and you'd have alot more room
[19:43:08] <XXCoder> indeed
[19:43:20] <zeeshan|2> i think im more into racing than machining
[19:43:22] <zeeshan|2> so that'll enver happen
[19:43:26] <XXCoder> or turn it into transformer that turns from car into massive cnc machine
[19:43:31] <zeeshan|2> haha XXCoder ilike that idea!
[19:43:33] <XXCoder> and back
[19:43:45] <zeeshan|2> turns into a massive laser cutter
[19:43:51] <XXCoder> just dont press that button while racing ;)
[19:43:58] <zeeshan|2> i can be a sore loser
[19:44:09] <zeeshan|2> and machine other cars while we're race preping
[19:44:13] <zeeshan|2> and then transform
[19:44:30] <XXCoder> heh. so you making parts for yourself?
[19:44:37] <XXCoder> for rce car
[19:44:42] <zeeshan|2> XXCoder: yes i do that a lot
[19:44:45] <G0704> I'm after 3 hours of griding with my dremel.
[19:44:47] <zeeshan|2> thats how i started
[19:46:19] <zeeshan|2> has anyone used a siemens sub panel?
[19:46:23] <G0704> I've make the room for the X axis ball nut.
[19:48:48] <G0704> what cuplers to buy?
[19:49:53] <XXCoder> whoa. that crappy site is still up http://www.extremeghostbusters.org/
[19:49:58] <XXCoder> 1998
[19:50:08] <XXCoder> its almost old enough to vote
[19:51:05] <zeeshan|2> lol
[19:54:08] <G0704> http://www.ebay.com/itm/coupling-spider-tightners-for-lovejoy-coupling-spiders-CNC-stepper-motor-/330965794773?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item4d0f193fd5
[19:54:16] <G0704> I need it?
[19:54:38] <XXCoder> lovejoy coupling :P
[19:55:53] <somenewguy> CaptHindsight: thanks, I will put chokes on all long cables, if only cause I can get em from the trash at work
[19:56:05] <Tom_itx> G0704, you may want a more direct connection
[19:56:18] <Tom_itx> too much backlash with that coupler
[19:56:55] <somenewguy> I'm looking at moving into a new place w/ a 2 car garage and a basment with a real cieling, and sice my car doesn't fit in the garage, there is only one way this can end...
[19:58:54] <somenewguy> also are intel atom's still the best bang for the buck for a mill pc, or has a new favorite been found? I thought someone said they were ending em
[19:59:13] <XXCoder> raspberry pi heh
[19:59:14] <somenewguy> looking at newegg right now, thinking if I throw out all my old pcs I can "reward" myself with new parts!
[19:59:19] <somenewguy> hush you
[19:59:32] <somenewguy> I have two of those and already know you're messing w me
[20:00:45] <XXCoder> heh I do want to get one, but just unsure what I would do with one.
[20:00:51] <somenewguy> car computer?
[20:01:00] <somenewguy> thats' what mine are for
[20:01:02] <XXCoder> theres project that uses it and nook simple touch into fun
[20:02:59] <somenewguy> argh parametric search won't work on newegg for me
[20:03:05] <somenewguy> clearly a sign I need to go work on my car
[20:03:11] <somenewguy> would be nice to have somethign to drive to work in tomorow...
[20:03:23] <XXCoder> meh just walk there ;)
[20:05:23] <somenewguy> 9 miles in teh snow? this aint 1942
[20:05:34] <Tom_itx> uphill both ways?
[20:05:45] <somenewguy> not since '35
[20:05:55] <somenewguy> according to gramps
[20:07:31] <malcom2073> Tom_itx: With no feet?
[20:07:52] <XXCoder> the uphill both ways is from gravity warping. it went away, but it should come back when you're 80s and complaining to kids.
[20:09:56] <XXCoder> okay the joke didnt work :P
[20:31:04] <bobo_> gravity sucks before 80 kid-o
[20:40:28] <CaptHindsight> heh http://kernelmag.dailydot.com/issue-sections/features-issue-sections/11294/the-missing-piece-of-the-smart-home-revolution/
[20:40:53] <CaptHindsight> it will end up being whatever the most popular spyware OS there is
[20:41:27] <bobo_> zeeshan|two Looks as if you are on the final stage of wiring the mill
[20:41:43] <CaptHindsight> does anyone keep the Linuxcnc machine on their network?
[20:41:54] <CaptHindsight> and internet connected?
[20:42:43] <CaptHindsight> heh Cloud based CNC
[20:46:01] <Tom_itx> not 24/7 but it's connected
[20:54:17] <skunkworks> same here
[20:58:56] <bobo_> skunkworks are you saying the BIG K&T is connected to the internet as we speak ?
[21:03:41] <skunkworks> maybe...
[21:03:56] <skunkworks> (it is at the shop - sometimes dad leaves it on...)
[21:05:20] <bobo_> blame it on good old Dad
[21:07:57] <skunkworks> well - the main breaker is off - so you couldn't just turn it on...
[21:08:07] <skunkworks> computer is on a different circuit
[21:10:11] <bobo_> hay this is America , you can do what ever you want !
[21:11:32] <bobo_> that K&T conversion , I think is very impressive
[21:12:12] <G0704> someone here know cemistry?
[21:13:04] <skunkworks> bobo_: thank you. it has been making a lot of parts.
[21:14:51] <G0704> I've did today etching with salt water
[21:15:01] <G0704> and it's work very good
[21:15:27] <G0704> but i want to learn the camistry of it.
[21:17:00] <bobo_> skunkworks is the KT used for a business? or to keep the kids off the street
[21:23:45] <skunkworks> heh - odd jobs here and there
[21:28:35] <zeeshan|2> bobo_: getting ther slowly :)
[21:30:09] <zeeshan|2> why arew all my macines green ?
[21:30:18] <zeeshan|2> is green the universal machine color?
[21:30:41] <G0704> i want other color.
[21:30:46] <zeeshan|2> me too
[21:30:49] <zeeshan|2> why not blue
[21:30:51] <zeeshan|2> or black!
[21:30:53] <G0704> pink
[21:31:14] <bobo_> zeeshan try mov
[21:31:20] <zeeshan|2> mov?
[21:32:07] <Tom_itx> mauve
[21:32:13] <skunkworks> http://electronicsam.com/images/KandT/DSCCurrent.JPG
[21:32:41] <G0704> i want the ATC
[21:32:44] <zeeshan|2> http://i.imgur.com/nV82DJD.jpg
[21:32:45] <zeeshan|2> bahahah
[21:32:45] <bobo_> thnk you tom mauve
[21:33:01] <[cube]> lol
[21:33:36] <G0704> I've make an electrolosis, the solotion is salt water, the negative is iron, and the positive is copper. the iron (negative) start to make yellow color, and the copper stay without change. the iron also lose material. so something eat the iron
[21:33:36] <zeeshan|2> cube i got it i got it!
[21:33:37] <zeeshan|2> :D
[21:33:41] <G0704> the yellow can be FeCl3 ? Iron(III) chloride?
[21:33:45] <[cube]> lathe??
[21:33:49] <zeeshan|2> no the mill
[21:33:52] <zeeshan|2> lathe i gave up on
[21:33:57] <[cube]> ah lol
[21:33:57] <[cube]> nice
[21:34:03] <[cube]> got a place for it?
[21:34:11] <zeeshan|2> yea man i posted a pic
[21:34:16] <zeeshan|2> https://www.flickr.com/photos/128539016@N05/16013598720/
[21:34:22] <zeeshan|2> moose mill corner
[21:34:44] <[cube]> looks great :)
[21:34:52] <zeeshan|2> its heavy as hell man
[21:34:59] <zeeshan|2> not as heavy as the bridgeport clone was
[21:35:01] <zeeshan|2> but still
[21:35:12] <zeeshan|2> im not digging that 2 bolt clamp mechanism
[21:35:15] <zeeshan|2> to stop it from rotating
[21:35:16] <zeeshan|2> lol
[21:35:22] <zeeshan|2> (the head)
[21:35:26] <[cube]> heh
[21:35:32] <[cube]> try it out for a while
[21:35:37] <[cube]> see if you notice any movement
[21:35:39] <[cube]> do some tests
[21:35:43] <[cube]> i havne't got that far yet
[21:35:47] <zeeshan|2> im sure it will be fine man
[21:35:55] <zeeshan|2> i plan to onyl do light manual milling on it
[21:36:00] <[cube]> http://imgur.com/a/uaYbT
[21:36:19] <zeeshan|2> that turned out nice man
[21:36:25] <[cube]> i tested it, works pretty well
[21:36:31] <[cube]> doing some leak testing right now
[21:36:33] <zeeshan|2> i love the look of that print
[21:36:36] <[cube]> not that leakes really matter...
[21:36:55] <zeeshan|2> is that a threaded port for the oil inlet?
[21:37:07] <[cube]> nope
[21:37:14] <[cube]> just pressure fit
[21:37:18] <[cube]> its very snug
[21:37:25] <[cube]> .3 mm smaller than hose
[21:37:27] <zeeshan|2> ah
[21:37:30] <[cube]> and its 2 cm deep
[21:37:32] <zeeshan|2> you can always loctite it too
[21:37:51] <[cube]> oh the screw?
[21:38:00] <[cube]> its just to hold on that once side piece
[21:38:02] <zeeshan|2> http://i.imgur.com/yWNEhQo.jpg
[21:38:03] <zeeshan|2> right side port
[21:38:05] <[cube]> to clamp on to the brass
[21:38:18] <[cube]> ah
[21:38:18] <[cube]> yea
[21:38:20] <[cube]> just pressure
[21:38:31] <zeeshan|2> total print time? :p
[21:38:42] <[cube]> heh about 10 hrs
[21:38:46] <zeeshan|2> jeez lol
[21:38:53] <[cube]> for both parts
[21:39:03] <[cube]> about 4-5 each
[21:39:10] <[cube]> running it very slow
[21:39:15] <[cube]> becasue of the overhangs
[21:40:01] <zeeshan|2> if you go too fast, the plastic layer doesnt bond?
[21:40:19] <zeeshan|2> i am using a sla ? type 3d printer at school this semester
[21:40:23] <zeeshan|2> just got my TA assignment
[21:40:32] <[cube]> ah nice
[21:40:34] <zeeshan|2> gotta laser cut and 3d print parts for 2nd year projects
[21:40:39] <[cube]> yeah if you go too fast lots of nasty things happen
[21:40:43] <[cube]> you get rough edges
[21:40:49] <[cube]> stringy pieces during travel
[21:41:05] <[cube]> hah score
[21:41:06] <[cube]> ur all set
[21:41:11] <zeeshan|2> if ________________ < is table from the side
[21:41:16] <zeeshan|2> can you print a part like this:
[21:41:20] <zeeshan|2> |______|
[21:41:26] <zeeshan|2> or does it have to be \_________/
[21:41:27] <os1r1s> [cube]: Is that nylon or PLA?
[21:41:27] <[cube]> yes
[21:41:29] <zeeshan|2> slightly tapered
[21:41:34] <[cube]> vertical is preferred
[21:41:48] <[cube]> tapered is just for building steps to an overhand and/or decorative
[21:41:52] <[cube]> pla
[21:42:17] <os1r1s> [cube]: Nice design, but you should be able to print quicker. Thats a pretty small part
[21:42:18] <[cube]> one weird thing i'm noticing with the pla, and not sure if its just the infill % or the material or what
[21:42:28] <[cube]> but its almost like the oil is 'permeating' the part
[21:42:46] <zeeshan|2> sweats
[21:42:47] <zeeshan|2> hm
[21:42:47] <[cube]> yeah i could have probably done it in half the time easily
[21:42:54] <[cube]> but i didnt want to risk haveing to reprint
[21:42:59] <[cube]> im still workign out kinks
[21:43:02] <zeeshan|2> sounds like its porous :P
[21:43:06] <[cube]> and wanted these parts to get mill going
[21:43:19] <zeeshan|2> you have the bug
[21:43:25] <zeeshan|2> gotta mod the mill before even starting it!
[21:43:25] <zeeshan|2> :P
[21:43:40] <os1r1s> [cube]: I think you'd be better off printing that in Nylon. My .02
[21:43:47] <[cube]> agreed
[21:44:00] <zeeshan|2> why os1r1s
[21:44:08] <[cube]> i've never printed with nylon, will have to pick some up
[21:44:09] <os1r1s> zeeshan|2: Nylon is stronger than PLA
[21:44:14] <[cube]> i have abs here i could try
[21:44:24] <zeeshan|2> any other advantage?
[21:44:25] <os1r1s> Don't use loctite near ABS
[21:44:41] <zeeshan|2> why it melts? :P
[21:44:42] <[cube]> these parts wont be under any particular stress
[21:44:47] <os1r1s> zeeshan|2: I think it would be more chemically resistant. But not sure.
[21:45:18] <zeeshan|2> "Polylactic Acid is a biodegradable, grease and oil resistant, high clarity material"
[21:45:21] <os1r1s> Since PLA is biodegradable, I'm guessing that oil will eventually eat it away
[21:45:36] <[cube]> yeah, we'll find out soon enough :)
[21:45:45] <os1r1s> loctite causes ABS to crack
[21:45:48] <[cube]> luckily its easily removed/replaced
[21:46:11] <[cube]> 'oil resistant'....doesn't give me the warm fuzzies :P
[21:46:14] <zeeshan|2> http://www.chiefdelphi.com/media/photos/39521
[21:46:14] <zeeshan|2> haha
[21:47:39] <[cube]> also need to consider how my coolant and other oils/lubes like wd40 will affect the parts
[21:47:44] <[cube]> they'll no doubt be exposed
[21:48:04] <zeeshan|2> well nylon i know is pretty damn good
[21:48:07] <zeeshan|2> i use it for fuel lines
[21:48:09] <[cube]> should just spray a bunch of crap on the parts and let sit for a couple days
[21:48:34] <[cube]> yeah nylon sounds like a good idea
[21:48:39] * [cube] gets out credit card...
[21:48:44] <zeeshan|2> http://www.jegs.com/images/photos/555110920.jpg
[21:48:45] <zeeshan|2> that stuff
[21:49:25] <zeeshan|2> doh
[21:49:29] <zeeshan|2> thats nitrile inner tube
[21:49:29] <zeeshan|2> nm.
[21:49:48] <furrywolf> I use rubber for fuel lines. heh.
[21:49:56] <zeeshan|2> http://images.oreillyauto.com/parts/img/large/dor/800-080-007.jpg
[21:49:59] <zeeshan|2> that stuff is nylon
[21:50:04] <zeeshan|2> furrywolf: why
[21:50:15] <furrywolf> ford, however, does use nylon fuel lines... they like cracking.
[21:53:08] <zeeshan|2> is it a big deal if th e servo polarity is reversed on aservo drive
[21:53:18] <zeeshan|2> can yo ujust flip the tacho signal to match
[21:54:45] <[cube]> look sliek i can get PETT or Nylon 645
[21:55:07] <[cube]> or Nylon 618
[21:55:08] <os1r1s> [cube]: I use nylon 618. 645 should be much better
[21:55:18] <os1r1s> If doing it again I would get 645
[21:55:24] <[cube]> ah okay
[21:55:24] <[cube]> thx
[21:56:57] <bobo_> zeeshan that Monarch lathe ? figure out diameter of 3 or 4 jaw chuck it would use and max RPM of those chucks . lathe was not designed for carbide cutting tools
[21:57:19] <zeeshan|2> bobo_: im not getting it anymore
[21:58:53] <bobo_> I am talking about size vers max chuck dia vers small dia parts
[22:00:33] <bobo_> rpm wise
[22:00:41] <furrywolf> that lathe isn't meant for very small parts, period. :P
[22:01:40] <bobo_> give him some numberrs Mr furry
[22:02:33] * furrywolf has no numbers
[22:03:34] * furrywolf contemplates making a prisoneresque joke, but fails
[22:04:13] <bobo_> also rpm of spindle bearings expensive spindle bearings did I mention expesive low rpm bearings
[22:05:47] <zeeshan|2> bobo_: prolly a good thing i am not getting it :P
[22:10:09] <furrywolf> couldn't work out transportation?
[22:10:17] <zeeshan|2> nahh
[22:10:20] <zeeshan|2> no space
[22:10:24] <zeeshan|2> see the pic abov ei posted :P
[22:10:46] <bobo_> I am not wishing you don't get the lathe , just wondering your thinking of chuck Dia vers max rpm vers rpm used for smaller dia stuff
[22:11:03] <zeeshan|2> bobo_: i know it was a low speed lathe
[22:11:12] <zeeshan|2> i work on a lot of stainless and steel
[22:12:10] <zeeshan|2> theyre like 800 rpm lathes
[22:12:18] <zeeshan|2> but people bump em up to 1200
[22:14:16] <furrywolf> what pic?
[22:14:34] <bobo_> those old timken taper bearings might get very hot around 900 rpm
[22:14:39] <zeeshan|2> grr i posted it 2 times already!! :P
[22:14:40] <furrywolf> I see fuel hose and fittings.
[22:14:43] <zeeshan|2> https://www.flickr.com/photos/128539016@N05/16013598720/
[22:14:54] <furrywolf> did you perhaps post it before I joined the channel? :P
[22:15:03] <zeeshan|2> oh i did
[22:15:04] <zeeshan|2> sorry :P
[22:15:31] <furrywolf> that's much, much more space than I have.
[22:15:37] <zeeshan|2> not enough for that lathe
[22:15:44] <furrywolf> I have a tiny house with no garage or storage, and a rental storage unit I have to drive to.
[22:15:56] <zeeshan|2> a lot of my stuff is in the basement
[22:16:06] <zeeshan|2> so its not enough space!
[22:16:23] <furrywolf> and no basement here either.
[22:18:01] <bobo_> zeeshamm blow out the formal dineing room wall
[22:18:55] <zeeshan|2> haha
[22:19:58] <bobo_> sounds easy if it's not my $
[22:20:04] <zeeshan|2> i aint rich!
[22:20:07] <zeeshan|2> https://www.flickr.com/photos/128539016@N05/14912262293/
[22:20:12] <zeeshan|2> how to find pinouts for this motor
[22:20:15] <zeeshan|2> need to find out which lead is+
[22:20:32] <zeeshan|2> if it spins clockwise
[22:21:01] <zeeshan|2> and my +v wire is connected to a specific pin,
[22:21:04] <zeeshan|2> is that a + pin? :P
[22:21:52] <furrywolf> does flickr not have any form of embiggening function anymore?
[22:22:14] <bobo_> use 9volt batt. seek and ye shall find
[22:22:24] <furrywolf> clicking on the image, like every single other site on the planet, instead goes to the next image.
[22:22:49] <zeeshan|2> furrywolf: yea its a terrible service
[22:22:55] <zeeshan|2> im looking to get my own hosting in the future
[22:24:03] <Tom_itx> just put up a home server
[22:24:13] <zeeshan|2> too slow tom
[22:24:13] <furrywolf> does it matter? hook them up whichever way rotates the way you need to it? it should be reversible...
[22:24:29] <zeeshan|2> furrywolf: i wanna follow the + and - in the servo drive manual
[22:24:35] <zeeshan|2> so when i hook up the tachometer, there are no suprises
[22:24:50] <zeeshan|2> and im being anal about guessing the wires because the servo drives are retarded mechanically
[22:24:56] <zeeshan|2> remember the screws? theyre not accessible for the motor leads
[22:25:03] <zeeshan|2> so i'd have to dismount the 5 drives ..
[22:25:11] <furrywolf> if it runs away, swap the wires? :P
[22:25:22] <zeeshan|2> i dont wanna do it twice
[22:25:29] <zeeshan|2> cause its a bish to swap wires
[22:25:56] <Tom_itx> do one and see
[22:26:01] <Tom_itx> then do the rest
[22:26:23] <furrywolf> swap the wires on the motor end where it's easier?
[22:26:45] <zeeshan|2> Tom_itx: lets say ive hooked up a moto r a certain way, and i hooked up a tacho a certain way.. and i notice a run away condition.. how do i know whether the motor leads are reversed or the tacho is reversed
[22:27:05] <zeeshan|2> i think thats the longest sentence i've written since ive been in here
[22:27:27] <Tom_itx> i'm not sure, i don't have servos
[22:27:31] <zeeshan|2> hehe
[22:27:38] <Tom_itx> i would think ou could reverse one or the other
[22:27:39] <furrywolf> are the inputs to your drive labeled "clockwise" or similar?
[22:27:40] <Tom_itx> and be ok
[22:27:42] <furrywolf> otherwise, it doesn't matter.
[22:27:51] <zeeshan|2> furrywolf: no just + and -
[22:28:19] <zeeshan|2> okay so if my motor leads are reversed, and tacho is as required by the manual, and i end up flipping the tacho wires
[22:28:29] <furrywolf> so decide what you want them to mean. do you want a + step to be clockwise? or to move the axis in the positive direction? or to not care and just set the software to whatever works?
[22:28:30] <zeeshan|2> that means everytime i command a + position in linuxcnc, it will try to go the opposite way
[22:28:35] <zeeshan|2> and i've have to invert the signal?
[22:28:42] <zeeshan|2> that bothers me for some reason
[22:28:53] <Tom_itx> i inverted one of my drives
[22:29:00] <bobo_> 9volt batt on motor meter on tack
[22:29:00] <zeeshan|2> i dunno in engineering positive rotation is counter clockwise
[22:29:03] <furrywolf> if you don't want to invert any signals, then hook it up whichever way makes a + step move the positive axis direction.
[22:29:20] <furrywolf> bobo: I doubt a 9v battery will make his motor rotate.
[22:29:37] <Tom_itx> just change the sign of the SCALE
[22:29:39] <zeeshan|2> i have a 12v car battery
[22:29:46] <Tom_itx> in the ini
[22:29:57] <furrywolf> then if you do it that way, since some of your leadscrews probably run the opposite direction, you'll need to set them in software anyway.
[22:30:24] <zeeshan|2> fair enough
[22:30:25] <furrywolf> bobo: his motor is 137V, >2kW. a 9V battery tops out at, what, 1W, for short periods? :P
[22:30:36] <zeeshan|2> so i'll hook up my motor leads any random way
[22:30:47] <zeeshan|2> and if the motor runs away, ill flip the tachometer wires
[22:30:55] <zeeshan|2> cause thats a lot easier to do
[22:30:57] <Tom_itx> organized random
[22:31:08] <zeeshan|2> im just a bit afraid of a run away. never experienced it
[22:31:09] <furrywolf> it'd be a very efficient motor if it runs at .05% of its rated power!
[22:31:11] <zeeshan|2> sounds very violent
[22:31:18] <bobo_> car batt use light bulb in series to limit the Oh Shit
[22:31:40] <zeeshan|2> these are 2 hp servos
[22:31:47] <zeeshan|2> they can prolly do some damage
[22:31:53] <Tom_itx> my X axis SCALE is negative, my Y axis SCALE is positive
[22:31:56] <zeeshan|2> im hoping you clamping them down with a big ass c-clamp will be ok
[22:32:00] <furrywolf> zeeshan: don't have it connected to the machine during initial testing.
[22:32:07] <zeeshan|2> furry it wont be
[22:32:09] <zeeshan|2> but the motor will jump
[22:32:14] <zeeshan|2> ive had dinky little mtors jump on me
[22:32:18] <zeeshan|2> i cant imagine how violent this will be..
[22:32:24] <zeeshan|2> by dinky i mean rc car motors
[22:32:26] <furrywolf> a runaway on a servo motor is fine... a runaway on an axis may result in needing parts.
[22:32:28] <Tom_itx> when you power it, give it a very low feedrate
[22:32:45] <furrywolf> tom: if it runs away, it won't care what the feedrate is.
[22:32:48] <Tom_itx> and if it takes off you know something is backwards
[22:32:49] <zeeshan|2> i have a "test mode"
[22:32:56] <Tom_itx> i know that furrywolf
[22:32:58] <zeeshan|2> when it's in test mode and the motor leads are connected..
[22:33:06] <zeeshan|2> you can rotate the motor by using a pot
[22:33:09] <furrywolf> zeeshan: rathet strap it down to something.
[22:33:12] <zeeshan|2> maybe i can figure out the direction based o nthat?
[22:33:18] <Tom_itx> but if it creeps along you know that one is right
[22:33:28] <zeeshan|2> yea pcw was mentioning that before
[22:33:32] <zeeshan|2> if its drifting ill know
[22:33:39] <zeeshan|2> but if its run away, ill definitely know!
[22:33:43] <zeeshan|2> (scared me)
[22:35:21] <zeeshan|2> will found out tomorrow
[22:35:23] <bobo_> try 9 volt batt (good 9volt batt) just to tell me i am wrong servo no load
[22:35:32] <zeeshan|2> bobo_: i tried 24vdc psu before
[22:35:35] <zeeshan|2> they spun
[22:35:46] <zeeshan|2> i dunno if 9v will do it
[22:36:34] <zeeshan|2> i believe the coil resistance is 12 ohms
[22:36:42] <zeeshan|2> i dont remember
[22:37:03] <bobo_> will turn enough to find direction vers polarity
[22:37:19] <zeeshan|2> its a bit sad
[22:37:23] <zeeshan|2> but i dont have a9v battery :P
[22:37:28] <zeeshan|2> only 12v
[22:37:42] <furrywolf> a 12v non-tiny battery is much more likely to make it spin.
[22:38:12] <furrywolf> 9v batteries are only good for a couple hundred ma tops, and they'll melt if you do that for more than a couple seconds...
[22:38:14] <zeeshan|2> the z motor will be a bit annoying to figure out
[22:38:16] <zeeshan|2> cause it has a brake
[22:39:17] <Tom_itx> block the spindle up with wood
[22:39:37] <bobo_> if car batery I would use light bulb in series for less oh shit the lead fell off
[22:40:29] <zeeshan|2> im gonna just experience that a run away is all about
[22:42:10] <Tom_itx> the wood will keep it from damaging the table
[22:42:39] <zeeshan|2> Tom_itx: my spindle moves in the y direction
[22:42:40] <zeeshan|2> :)
[22:42:44] <Tom_itx> ahh
[22:42:46] <zeeshan|2> my table already fell down
[22:42:50] <Tom_itx> heh
[22:42:52] <zeeshan|2> when i disconnected the servo
[22:42:53] <zeeshan|2> :-(
[22:43:02] <zeeshan|2> it wasn't too dramatic though
[22:43:05] <zeeshan|2> i tried to stop it, but failed
[22:43:24] <zeeshan|2> i think that is an important note for hobbyists..
[22:43:26] <bobo_> for zeeshans mill the Z axis is table goes up and down it's a german thing
[22:43:30] <zeeshan|2> do not disconnect the Z without support
[22:43:37] <zeeshan|2> you can get your finger stuck in between the belt and the motor.
[22:43:42] <zeeshan|2> and likely chop it off
[22:43:50] <Tom_itx> anybody for that matter
[22:45:20] <zeeshan|2> servos are a bit scary..
[22:46:09] <zeeshan|2> a failure of servo tachometer
[22:46:15] <zeeshan|2> is enough to cause a run away from my understanding
[22:46:19] <furrywolf> yes
[22:46:37] <zeeshan|2> shoulda gone with steppers :P
[22:47:00] <furrywolf> steppers suck for large or fast things
[22:47:12] <zeeshan|2> another situation i can think of
[22:47:27] <zeeshan|2> is if linuxcnc doesn't know you're in e-stop mode and and the power to the servo drives is killed
[22:47:41] <zeeshan|2> so the position loop is still running
[22:47:54] <zeeshan|2> and you get out of e-stop mode
[22:48:01] <zeeshan|2> you can have a huge run away
[22:48:05] <zeeshan|2> am i right??
[22:48:14] <t12_> shouldn't all this be handled by tracking error e-stop maximums
[22:48:28] <furrywolf> I think linuxcnc will abort with a following error if the encoder stops matching what it tells it to do.
[22:48:40] <CaptHindsight> just start out slow with limited current
[22:48:44] <bobo_> oh no! zeeshan will you stop with the stepper thing
[22:48:50] <zeeshan|2> bobo_: im kidding haha
[22:48:51] <CaptHindsight> I use linear servos all the time
[22:49:12] <zeeshan|2> CaptHindsight: i already have them set to the absolute lowest current setting
[22:49:21] <zeeshan|2> so the run away wont be too aggressive?
[22:49:42] <t12_> i have some thing on a big iko linear servo
[22:49:45] <t12_> that thing is sorta scary
[22:49:56] <t12_> i think it may be able to propel itself off a table if not bolted down
[22:50:00] <zeeshan|2> haha
[22:50:06] <furrywolf> I haven't yet found anything with servos within my budget.
[22:50:07] <zeeshan|2> rail gun
[22:50:10] <CaptHindsight> I bump them back and forth first to see which way they are going if it's some new setup
[22:51:55] <CaptHindsight> linear servos also generally come with big springs at each end of their travel :)
[22:53:35] <t12_> this thing does not
[22:54:08] <t12_> http://www.ikont.co.jp/eg/product/mecha/mch10.html
[22:54:10] <t12_> some variant of these
[22:54:38] <CaptHindsight> those look nice
[22:54:39] <furrywolf> if I had a random linear servo lying around, there's probably one thing I'd mount on it first...
[22:54:46] * furrywolf has been single too long
[22:56:05] <zeeshan|2> looks expenmsive
[22:56:25] <CaptHindsight> crap already down to 3F
[22:56:34] <t12_> yeah they're kinda expensive
[22:56:41] <t12_> $6k?
[22:56:43] <XXCoder> CaptHindsight: you place outside temp?
[22:56:51] <t12_> for whatever we have + ctrls
[22:56:55] <furrywolf> it's been warming up here the last few days... a few days ago my living room was getting down towards freezing.
[22:57:04] <CaptHindsight> XXCoder: yeah probably -5F by 6am
[22:57:10] <XXCoder> fun
[22:57:15] <XXCoder> its raining heavily here
[22:57:37] <CaptHindsight> high of -1F Wednesday
[22:58:24] <CaptHindsight> t12_: how long is yours?
[22:58:27] <furrywolf> got down to about 28F here. that's cold for here.
[22:58:49] <t12_> 1m
[22:59:01] <t12_> i think it was selected because its very short
[22:59:07] <CaptHindsight> ~$6k sounds right
[22:59:18] <Tom_itx> 11°F current
[22:59:26] <furrywolf> on the night of 12/31-1/1, my living room got to 31F, while it was 27F outside.
[22:59:53] <t12_> now theres 2 and they're unused
[23:00:01] <furrywolf> currently ~55F in here, 43.5F outside.
[23:00:21] <t12_> i should commandeer them
[23:00:46] <zeeshan|2> Tom_itx: where ar eyou?
[23:00:48] <zeeshan|2> thats close to the temp here
[23:01:04] <Tom_itx> Ks
[23:01:15] <CaptHindsight> a complete linear servo positioner used on ebay goes for 1K-3K that size
[23:01:42] <zeeshan|2> didnt know it that cold there
[23:01:43] <CaptHindsight> but you can find magnets and forcers for ~$100ea
[23:02:28] <t12_> hmm
[23:02:30] <t12_> forcers == coils?
[23:02:40] <CaptHindsight> yeah
[23:02:57] <t12_> yeah they seemed
[23:02:57] <CaptHindsight> http://www.ebay.com/itm/140994898433
[23:02:58] <t12_> really simple
[23:04:48] <CaptHindsight> you need to know how they wired the coils and halls is all
[23:05:33] <CaptHindsight> http://www.ebay.com/itm/370770474504 1 year later it's still for sale, but at 50% the original price
[23:06:42] <furrywolf> bbl, wolfy bedtime
[23:08:48] <SpeedEvil> I've cheated, and insulated one room.
[23:08:55] <SpeedEvil> (prior do doing the whole house)
[23:09:22] <SpeedEvil> I can heat this room adequately with ~300W (15C delta)
[23:09:26] <CaptHindsight> http://www.ebay.com/itm/Supermax-3-hp-cnc-mill-3-axis-retrofit-kit-/261693288595 Supermax 3 hp cnc mill with ball screws
[23:09:31] <CaptHindsight> $1200
[23:09:47] <furrywolf> this place has minimal insulation. I insulate myself when it gets cold.
[23:10:13] <furrywolf> a jacket is much easier and cheaper than ripping apart walls and burning fuel. :P
[23:10:55] <CaptHindsight> http://www.ebay.com/itm/Deckel-KF-12-duplicator-milling-machine-a-manual-cnc-/221047363368 Deckel KF-12 duplicator $1,900
[23:12:05] <furrywolf> bbl
[23:21:06] <CaptHindsight> http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/science/science-news/11298927/Young-people-are-lost-generation-who-can-no-longer-fix-gadgets-warns-professor.html
[23:22:33] <CaptHindsight> maybe that explains why people under 30 think that glue guns are magic
[23:23:42] <bobo_> so why should they ned to fix stuff . present design life is very short
[23:32:44] <zeeshan|2> anyone know a common place to buy a 34" height version of this
[23:32:44] <zeeshan|2> http://www.presalesinc.com/store/media/catalog/product/cache/1/image/9df78eab33525d08d6e5fb8d27136e95/b/a/bar-stool-wood-natural_1080_1.jpg
[23:33:22] <CaptHindsight> how tall are the ones at Walmart?
[23:33:55] <zeeshan|2> my walmart doesnt ha ve those
[23:34:20] <CaptHindsight> looks like 30"
[23:37:20] <CaptHindsight> I only see 30" versions everywhere
[23:37:39] <zeeshan|2> same here :/
[23:37:46] <zeeshan|2> i like loking down when welding
[23:37:51] <zeeshan|2> looking to replace my chair
[23:38:57] <CaptHindsight> http://www.ebay.com/itm/Extra-Tall-Barstool-ID-3099432-/151430758794 stylin!
[23:39:34] <zeeshan|2> haha
[23:41:23] <CaptHindsight> why not weld one up from scratch?
[23:42:11] <zeeshan|2> want insulated
[23:42:40] <XXCoder> thick rubber legs
[23:43:18] <XXCoder> and rubber sheet (and plastic nonductive plastic bolts) between metal seat and your butt
[23:43:26] <XXCoder> with som foam of course
[23:43:29] <XXCoder> double insulation
[23:43:54] <CaptHindsight> wear these http://www.greentophuntfish.com/frogg-toggs-trade-cascades-chest-wader-11.html
[23:44:16] <XXCoder> lol
[23:44:25] <CaptHindsight> isn't wood a fire hazard?
[23:44:41] <XXCoder> oh also paint it with rubber covering. its extra insulated
[23:48:38] <CaptHindsight> http://www.northerntool.com/shop/tools/product_200470154_200470154 I have similar
[23:49:17] <CaptHindsight> with thick rubber feet
[23:51:27] <zeeshan|2> 99!!
[23:51:29] <zeeshan|2> jeez
[23:51:34] <zeeshan|2> rich guy
[23:51:42] <XXCoder> build your own
[23:51:46] <XXCoder> use pipe bender
[23:52:34] <zeeshan|2> XXCoder: hard to motivate to build somet hing like that
[23:52:44] <zeeshan|2> i bet i can find something i can use from the scrap yard
[23:52:48] <zeeshan|2> for like $10:P
[23:53:11] <XXCoder> just grab car chair from scrap yard
[23:53:17] <XXCoder> add legs to it, remove back
[23:53:18] <zeeshan|2> haha
[23:53:28] <zeeshan|2> that will go on fire during welding :P
[23:53:43] <XXCoder> hey confort is worth burnt balls and legs lol
[23:54:09] <zeeshan|2> hahahaha
[23:54:10] <zeeshan|2> yore right
[23:54:16] <zeeshan|2> dude imagine those cadillac seats
[23:54:21] <zeeshan|2> itd be a sofa in the garage basically :D
[23:54:30] <t12_> lol
[23:54:37] <t12_> kids these days, warns professor
[23:54:44] <XXCoder> actually I would grab mecury sable 1980s back chair
[23:54:56] <XXCoder> its the confortablest seat I ever sat on
[23:54:56] <zeeshan|2> XXCoder: sounds like youve had experience back there?
[23:54:59] <zeeshan|2> :-0
[23:55:00] <XXCoder> front seats is even better
[23:55:05] <bobo_> use robet arm with a plow seat
[23:55:20] <XXCoder> dude I used to own mecury sable for 9 years. its the best confort I ever hd
[23:55:28] <XXCoder> I rarely sit in back lol
[23:55:46] <XXCoder> but im always happy to sit back because damn confortable
[23:56:35] <bobo_> plow seat's have holes for running cather tube thru
[23:57:40] <zeeshan|2> you didnt get my reference
[23:57:47] <zeeshan|2> what do people do on back seats
[23:57:48] <zeeshan|2> get it?!
[23:57:56] <XXCoder> I know, I just ignored that lol
[23:57:58] <zeeshan|2> haha
[23:58:09] <zeeshan|2> are they leather
[23:58:12] <XXCoder> nah
[23:58:19] <XXCoder> I hate leather chairs
[23:58:25] <zeeshan|2> i love em!