#linuxcnc | Logs for 2014-12-29

[00:00:15] <XXCoder1> furry I once had huge bag of cable connectors and drill from cable installer. I called them and they said they dont want it back
[00:00:22] <XXCoder1> I sure didnt want to keep em :P
[00:00:53] <furrywolf> FREE Economy Shipping from outside US Item location:
[00:00:54] <furrywolf> Williamstown, Kentucky
[00:01:44] <CaptHindsight> ever been to Knetucky?
[00:01:52] <CaptHindsight> Kentucky even
[00:02:12] <furrywolf> once, briefly. the best bit was a guy with a mullet down to his ass riding a quad down the freeway. I found it very appropriate. :P
[00:02:17] <CaptHindsight> sorta 3rd world
[00:08:30] <XXCoder1> furrywolf: the best part of flyover states is walmart
[00:09:17] <XXCoder1> strange people.
[00:10:39] <furrywolf> according to the completed listings, that guy has sold 23 "drives" today...
[00:10:43] * furrywolf is now sure they don't exist
[00:11:08] <XXCoder1> corp "fell off truck"
[00:11:14] <XXCoder1> or just boxes'
[00:11:28] <XXCoder1> I remember old "picture of ...." scams
[00:12:29] <furrywolf> http://offer.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewBidsLogin&item=231434960270&rt=nc&_trksid=p2047675.l2564 equally suspicious, how many of the bidders are brand new... either fake accounts, or only new people are gullible enough.
[00:13:03] <XXCoder1> whole thing smells yeah
[00:13:26] <zeeshan> report them
[00:13:42] <XXCoder1> ebay is full of bullshit
[00:13:52] <XXCoder1> I try go there as rarely as possible
[00:14:06] <XXCoder1> I finally had to buy special nut for my van
[00:14:26] <XXCoder1> its window cover type and my van is missing one, and new is 15 bucks plus $10 shipping
[00:14:46] <furrywolf> want to bed neither the listing nor the seller exist tomorrow? :)
[00:14:48] <furrywolf> bet
[00:15:11] <XXCoder1> No, I do not want to have sex with neither. ;)
[00:15:23] <furrywolf> people say my van has a loose nut behind the wheel too!
[00:15:40] <XXCoder1> lol my van has lots of halfass body repairs
[00:15:56] <XXCoder1> for example rear window doesnt close properly, but i finally fixed it
[00:16:29] <furrywolf> what van is it?
[00:16:31] <XXCoder1> I now need few of those panel plastic thingies so I can properly attach sliding door panel
[00:16:39] <XXCoder1> the soccer mom special: nissan quest
[00:16:46] <furrywolf> lol
[00:17:03] <furrywolf> I have a e-350 superduty xl extended... I think yours would fit in the back of it.
[00:17:04] <XXCoder1> 1996
[00:17:10] <XXCoder1> lol
[00:17:33] <XXCoder1> its nothing special besides basically rock. most of those vans die after 200k+ miles
[00:18:27] <furrywolf> I have 12ft from the back of my seat to the back door. :)
[00:18:58] <XXCoder1> nice. I'll just drive my van till I get my elio finally
[00:19:02] <XXCoder1> probablyu till 2016
[00:19:07] <furrywolf> elio?
[00:20:23] <furrywolf> grrr, my internet connection is really sucking again.
[00:20:59] <XXCoder1> its new type of car
[00:21:09] <XXCoder1> legally it's closed motorcycle
[00:21:26] <XXCoder1> so few states I will need helmet :P but those states is very far from where I live so whatever
[00:21:40] <furrywolf> made by reliant? :P
[00:21:56] <XXCoder1> nah elio is made by elio motors
[00:22:26] <furrywolf> but it sounds just like a reliant robin... three wheeled, ugly, unsafe,... :P
[00:22:34] <XXCoder1> lol
[00:22:45] <XXCoder1> actually its quite safe
[00:22:52] <furrywolf> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reliant_Robin
[00:23:01] <XXCoder1> rear is single wheel, fromt is 2 wheel so it drives like normal
[00:23:17] <XXCoder1> yeah I remember. cargears had that
[00:23:25] <XXCoder1> that british car show
[00:23:31] <furrywolf> yeah, they say that about smart cars too. I watched a video of a crash test between a smart car and a mid-sized sedan (it was a camry or something)... the sedan kept driving straight, while the smartcar went flying through the air, smashed.
[00:23:51] <XXCoder1> yeah but then life is risk
[00:24:00] <XXCoder1> 84 mpg is worth it
[00:24:12] <furrywolf> that thing hitting a normal car is like a normal car hitting a semi...
[00:24:32] <XXCoder1> I pay around $200 of gas a month - elio would be around $50 a month
[00:24:48] <furrywolf> I want a subaru diesel.
[00:25:04] <furrywolf> 50-60MPG in a full-size all-wheel-drive station wagon.
[00:26:12] <XXCoder1> not bad
[00:26:17] <XXCoder1> well gonna sleep night
[00:26:54] <furrywolf> same here. have work in the morning, as always. bbl.
[00:29:34] <furrywolf> http://www.torquenews.com/1084/2014-forester-and-xv-20-liter-diesels-are-green-why-not-us
[00:30:06] <furrywolf> The 2014 Subaru Forester and XV Crosstrek, both on the Green Car Guide top 10 list, get excellent fuel mileage. Forester gets 49.6 mpg and XV 50.4 mpg on the European cycle. Both come with a 2.0-liter Boxer diesel engine that comes with 148 hp with 258 lb. ft of torque.
[00:30:49] <furrywolf> 50mpg combined city/highway (though that's probably british gallons), plenty of hp, loads of torque, in a fucking huge forester SUV with all wheel drive.
[00:33:02] <furrywolf> for the same price, you can get, say, a prius... with twice as many parts to go wrong, piss-poor handling and performance, 2wd,... and worse gas milage!
[00:33:07] <furrywolf> but they can't sell the diesel here.
[00:36:30] <furrywolf> hrmm, rumors subaru is making a diesel plug-in hybrid, to push that already very impressive mpg figure up even further...
[00:36:34] <furrywolf> bbl, bed.
[01:43:33] * MrSunshine crinches a bit every time he sees a woodworker handle a drill bit...
[01:44:09] <MrSunshine> "oh it doesnt cut anymore .. press harder ..." then it comes up all black and starting to blue in the bit ... smoking some ... insted of just backing it off, clear the chips and continue :P
[01:46:53] <syyl_> woodchuks
[01:47:05] <syyl_> at least they dont hammer the drill in ;)
[01:48:22] <MrSunshine> hahahah =)
[01:48:39] <MrSunshine> dammit you almost killed me ... almost inhaled my sandwich there ...
[01:50:41] <MrSunshine> finaly warmer weather .. only -12 deg C today ..been -20 - -25 for a week straight now =)
[01:51:46] <syyl_> :D
[01:51:55] <syyl_> we where only down to -11
[01:52:07] <syyl_> last night
[01:52:34] <MrSunshine> my poor dog cant go out for more than like 5 mins then she goes all 3 legged and stuff
[01:53:49] <syyl_> :\
[01:54:21] <cathode> so...
[01:54:33] <cathode> anyone here do sheet metal design in solidworks?
[01:54:55] <MrSunshine> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JrmCyADNhe0 these asian people has always been good woodchucks =)
[01:56:09] <archivist> cathode, have done years ago
[01:56:20] <cathode> ok
[01:57:23] <archivist> but mostly done it on paper
[01:57:35] <zeeshan> what do you ned to know
[01:57:38] <cathode> i'm trying to design a linear drain pan... it has a flat square and two sides that slope upward with a 1 degree slope, and a rim around that the top of needs to be parallel to the flat square
[01:57:54] <cathode> i guess i don't really know what is the correct way to combine different sheet metal features to get what i want
[01:58:22] <cathode> and now that i think about it, it would be silly to expect to have people on IRC help with this since basically i need to learn what all the features do :P
[01:58:24] <zeeshan> draw the base.
[01:58:41] <zeeshan> and flange the 1 degree slopes
[01:58:52] <zeeshan> and then flange the other parallel part
[01:59:46] <archivist> make sure your tabs are right for your joining method
[01:59:58] <cathode> hmm
[02:00:28] <archivist> weld/braze,lap.solder etc
[02:00:31] <cathode> i'm going to be TIG welding the edges shut (or having a buddy do it) and looks aren't important...
[02:00:34] <archivist> rolled even
[02:00:38] <cathode> here's what i have so far: http://screencast.com/t/BGJ7i0mVU1
[02:01:41] <archivist> big gap top left, add some mitre tabs
[02:02:11] <cathode> ok
[02:02:37] <archivist> this is how I taught myself http://www.collection.archivist.info/searchv13.php?searchstr=tinware
[02:03:01] <cathode> erm, if i insert a miter flange it wants me to draw a sketch
[02:03:43] <zeeshan> archivist:
[02:03:44] <zeeshan> ncie work
[02:03:45] <zeeshan> :)
[02:03:54] <cathode> also do you think a 1 degree slope is enough for water to flow down?
[02:04:33] <archivist> 1 deg is ok (sewer pipe spec is 1 in 100)
[02:04:48] <cathode> ok
[02:05:10] <cathode> also yeah those tinware pieces are nice :)
[02:05:34] <archivist> that and a book on sheet metal work
[02:05:46] <cathode> ehhh
[02:05:54] <zeeshan> archivist: the funnel
[02:05:56] <zeeshan> howd you make that?
[02:06:10] <cathode> if this becomes too difficult / costly to get right, i'll switch up and use a totally different construction method
[02:06:11] <archivist> concentric arcs
[02:06:18] <zeeshan> ah
[02:06:21] <zeeshan> and brazing?
[02:06:25] <archivist> solder
[02:06:30] <zeeshan> very nice.
[02:06:50] <archivist> biscuit tin comes tinned :)
[02:07:59] <archivist> scrape the paint/lacquer to make a solder mask so it does not spread too far
[02:10:56] <zeeshan> have you played around with lead paint?
[02:11:18] <zeeshan> (random q)
[02:11:19] <zeeshan> :P
[02:11:59] <cathode> zeeshan - i have TONS on my house. you can have all of it for free!
[02:12:05] <zeeshan> lol
[02:12:47] <cathode> which leads me to a thought i had ... i wonder if we'll be "mining" old landfill sites in 100+ years for all the valuable elements and minerals they contain
[02:13:19] <cathode> think of if you had an efficient way to separate out individual elements or compounds
[02:13:33] <archivist> yes some mine tailings are already being mined
[02:14:09] <archivist> lead paint just works, dont eat it
[02:14:54] <cathode> the paint on my house exterior has some serious bubbling and sagging
[02:15:14] <cathode> some bubbles are popped/cut and large enough to hold a cup or more of water
[02:15:39] <cathode> and there's at least two layers of lead paint on there
[02:16:16] <cathode> i took a paint chip and cut at a shallow angle through it with a razor blade so i could expose all the layers and tested it with a home lead test kit. the swab turned pink almost immediately
[02:16:26] <cathode> so... fuck.
[02:17:25] <archivist> you dont lick the exterior, so meh
[02:18:28] <cathode> no but chips can leach lead into the soil
[02:18:36] <cathode> which contaminates anything i would want to plant
[02:18:55] <cathode> and becomes an environmental hazard for the groundwater system
[02:21:14] <cathode> anyway time for bed. gnight
[02:22:40] <MrSunshine> so in mach4 .. how do i configure linux ?
[02:23:55] <archivist> mach4 is an OS?
[02:24:25] <MrSunshine> no says motion controller but i want linux motion controller not windows
[02:25:08] <MrSunshine> so i boght mach4 now i want to make it work
[02:26:29] <Computer_Barf> some of the data relating violent crime and lead exposure are pretty startling
[02:26:30] <archivist> mach4 cannot be used in linux as far as I know
[02:26:51] <MrSunshine> =)
[02:26:54] <MrSunshine> sorry ..
[02:27:02] * MrSunshine slaps himself in the head with a deadblow hammer
[02:27:15] <archivist> harder
[02:27:21] <MrSunshine> hehe =)
[02:27:32] <Computer_Barf> perhaps you could run virtualbox
[02:27:50] <MrSunshine> btw, there isnt any kind of external program one can lay out classic ladder with for linuxcnc right ?
[02:27:57] <MrSunshine> cause the editor in linuxcnc realy is horrid =)
[02:28:05] <MrSunshine> Computer_Barf: im just trolling but thanks =)
[02:28:19] <archivist> any text editor
[02:28:19] <Computer_Barf> I've been thinking about that. I plan on using linuxcnc but would still like to retain the option of mach as an alternative
[02:28:24] <MrSunshine> wouldnt touch that software with a tong ... ok i have to as my friend runs mach3 on his plasma
[02:28:27] <MrSunshine> archivist: ough =)
[02:28:41] <MrSunshine> Computer_Barf: realtime system in virtual box ? =)
[02:28:56] <MrSunshine> sounds like a nightmare =)
[02:29:09] <zeeshan> archivist: what do you use on the lathe
[02:29:10] <Computer_Barf> idk. i don't know what my plan is for electronics
[02:29:11] <zeeshan> to power tap
[02:29:14] <zeeshan> say a 1/2" tap
[02:29:43] <archivist> there aint no realtime in mach, hence it cannot do many things except a shiny user interface
[02:29:49] <zeeshan> lol
[02:29:55] <zeeshan> no talkin about mach :{
[02:30:05] <MrSunshine> archivist: ahh ok =)
[02:30:20] <archivist> zeeshan, no power tapping in my lathes at the moment
[02:30:29] <zeeshan> ah
[02:30:33] <zeeshan> do you use a tap follower?
[02:30:42] <archivist> I screw cut though
[02:30:55] <zeeshan> but hard for an internal thread :)
[02:30:59] <archivist> usual single point method
[02:31:01] <zeeshan> smal lone
[02:31:07] <archivist> easy internal too
[02:32:18] <archivist> http://www.collection.archivist.info/searchv13.php?searchv4page=1&searchstr=nipple+nut done on the little starturn
[02:33:30] <zeeshan> nice
[02:33:48] <archivist> for everything else a tap
[02:34:02] <Computer_Barf> hey MattyMatt
[02:53:17] <MrSunshine> omg ... one asking if "car theme" (biltema) in sweden has molten aluminium on facebook ... :P
[02:53:24] <MrSunshine> realy hope this person is trolling =)
[02:55:40] <MrSunshine> biltema is store ... :P
[03:43:18] <Deejay> moin
[04:30:16] <Loetmichel> Jymmm: still there?
[04:30:31] <Loetmichel> yes, both my e-cigs have 18650 in them
[05:03:00] <anonimas1> pcw_home: are you there?
[05:03:41] * anonimas1 is fighting a postprocessor
[05:06:15] <anonimas1> horizontal/vertical maho, very easy to get used to
[07:57:56] <Jymmm> Loetmichel FastTech.com among others talk about mods, mech modz, and hybrid modz. Then which atomizers fit on what I'm not sure.
[08:02:08] <renesis> i dont think i could stand anything now except 18650 mech mods and an RDA
[08:02:23] <renesis> everything else fucks up or isnt consistent
[08:02:50] <renesis> kanger protank3 was the most consistent, and those seem diff from one atty cart to the next
[08:03:11] <Jymmm> renesis: But wtf does it all mean? What fits what? Drip? Wax? Solid? 30% Veg, is there a 100% Veg? I"M SO CONFUSED =)
[08:03:23] <renesis> and yeah ego style always seperate at the press fit
[08:03:40] <renesis> yeah, you can get 100% VG or PG
[08:03:54] <renesis> fit mostly has to do with the Ego style skirts
[08:04:24] <Jymmm> I've done the 100% PG, and it was way too harsh for the hit I want
[08:04:34] <renesis> egos have a trim 'cone' that screws onto large diameter threads below the atty threads
[08:04:38] <Jymmm> soeone said I wanted veg instead
[08:04:52] <renesis> some mech mods dont have the cone threads, so ego style attys wont fit
[08:05:01] <renesis> i do 50/50
[08:05:14] <renesis> VG is thicker, more vapor, sweeter
[08:05:29] <renesis> supposedly gives off some toxic thing if you get it too hot
[08:05:36] <Jymmm> Less harsh?
[08:05:42] <renesis> some people complain of blood sugar issues with it
[08:05:51] <renesis> dunno, theyre about the same
[08:06:01] <renesis> harshness is mostly about atomizer temp and flavors
[08:06:05] <renesis> i dont do flavors
[08:06:18] <Jymmm> I want coffee
[08:06:28] <renesis> yeah coffee is less drama
[08:06:45] <renesis> and im a light roast french press type of guy so im like almost max coffee drama
[08:07:27] <renesis> wax/concetrate/oil attys are for cannabis concentrates
[08:07:53] <renesis> usually dont have a bride (mesh, usually nickel foam, to hold liquid above atty coil)
[08:08:00] <Jymmm> renesis: Ok, we'll get to those some other time.
[08:08:08] <renesis> lots of e-cig attys dont have bridges now, tho
[08:08:18] <Jymmm> renesis: Right now, wtf do I need for eliquid? http://www.fasttech.com/category/3099/e-cigarettes
[08:09:03] <renesis> looking
[08:09:18] <Jymmm> Take your time.
[08:10:07] <renesis> http://www.fasttech.com/products/3099/10007916/1697900-stillare-storm-style-rebuildable-dripping
[08:10:20] <renesis> http://www.fasttech.com/products/3099/10007181/1591806-pre-made-wires-and-wicks-for-atomizer-50-pack
[08:10:42] <renesis> thats an example, running two of those coils would be pretty hot
[08:10:58] <renesis> also silica wick, i use cotton now
[08:11:34] <renesis> but that drip rebuildable is basically what i have
[08:12:15] <renesis> i put flat cotton pad in the little tray, and then have a pair of microcoils, no wick, 32awg kanthal, like 10 turns each
[08:12:19] <Jymmm> And where does the liq go?
[08:12:27] <renesis> and you just let the coils sit on the cotton
[08:12:47] <renesis> in my setup, you dump it in the cotton pad underneath
[08:13:17] <renesis> in the wick setup, you drip into the bottom tray, and kind of have the wicks wrapped around in the tray
[08:13:23] <Jymmm> how often to you refill?
[08:14:07] <renesis> http://imagizer.imageshack.us/a/img33/8720/nhz1.jpg
[08:14:14] <renesis> thats wick inside the coil
[08:14:25] <renesis> i dunno, every 3 or 4 big hits
[08:14:33] <renesis> drip isnt as convenient
[08:15:10] <renesis> http://vapeporn.com/wp-content/uploads/Cotton-Cloud-300x215.png
[08:15:20] <Jymmm> Oh, so drip is more or less liek having to relight frequently, where as a analog stays lit due the the chemicals?
[08:15:22] <renesis> thats coils on top of cotton, what im running
[08:15:37] <renesis> right
[08:15:53] <Jymmm> Ok, so alternative to drip? Tank?
[08:15:59] <renesis> you can get tank atomizers, but those are more sensitive to temperatures and thickness of juice
[08:16:12] <renesis> when they work theyre awesome
[08:16:14] <Jymmm> how sensative?
[08:16:25] <renesis> depends on the atty
[08:16:46] <Jymmm> Oh btw, I have about 100K feet of NiChrome in various diameters down to 40 ga
[08:16:56] <renesis> but your battery voltage, juice thickness (which will change as the atty heats up) are the big factors
[08:17:05] <renesis> yeah youre fine
[08:17:21] <renesis> i couldnt tell the diff between kanthal land nichrome
[08:17:48] <Jymmm> they are the same, one is just a Brand name
[08:18:01] <renesis> no theyre diff
[08:18:19] <renesis> kanthal has aluminum i thin, its not nickel chromium
[08:18:33] <renesis> but i didnt taste any diff
[08:18:48] <renesis> even when i was trying to do wickless coils for cannabis concentrates
[08:19:05] <renesis> like, in both cases, even red hot, i didnt get much flavor
[08:19:23] <renesis> lots of people in the ecig community 'test' shit with all sorts of random flavor juice
[08:19:55] <renesis> and theyre not scientific about much (theres exceptions this is just a sweeping generalization)
[08:20:27] <Jymmm> the concentrates are just oil?
[08:20:35] <renesis> cannabis stuff?
[08:20:38] <Jymmm> yeah
[08:20:42] <renesis> lots of things
[08:20:45] <renesis> depends on processing
[08:20:57] <renesis> main solvents are butane and super critical co2
[08:21:12] <Jymmm> super critical???
[08:21:19] <renesis> co2 takes a lot more gear and some lab skills, it can be better but most the shit i got tastes ruined
[08:21:33] <renesis> yeah, cooled until liquid in pressurized setups
[08:21:44] <Jymmm> like rancid?
[08:21:52] <renesis> my guess is lots of ways to fuck it up, and euipment difficult to break down and clean
[08:22:07] <renesis> no like, processed
[08:22:14] <Jymmm> ah
[08:22:30] <renesis> like, sometimes it tastes like machine chems almost, like they didnt clean the gear when they got it or who knows
[08:22:39] <renesis> butane is about purging
[08:22:55] <renesis> so vacuum chambers are used to pull the butane out quicker
[08:23:06] <renesis> because of that, theres a lot of variation in texture
[08:23:12] <Jymmm> butane is used as a solvent?
[08:23:24] <renesis> yeah
[08:23:45] <renesis> crumble/wax is like broken up foam, bubbles might be microscopic of pretty big
[08:24:05] <renesis> shatter is clear, amber like, flexible, will snap off if you pull quick
[08:24:09] <Jymmm> but ALL of them are thick like sytup?
[08:24:20] <renesis> oils are either crap, not enough purging
[08:24:34] <renesis> or so clean theyre almost pure thc, >80 and 90%
[08:24:41] <renesis> no theyre all diff
[08:24:57] <renesis> quite a bit of it is completely solid at room temp
[08:25:02] <Jymmm> Looking more for sativa
[08:25:13] <renesis> you gotta heat it up or it literally shatters when you try and break some off
[08:25:14] <jdh> you make this?
[08:25:33] <renesis> no i dont have trim supply or the space
[08:25:51] <Jymmm> renesis: Thats too much of a pita to heat and fill (so to speak)
[08:26:09] <renesis> its the cheapest way to stay stoned
[08:26:29] <renesis> and good shit is incredibly potent and clean
[08:27:02] <renesis> like, actually smoking flowers is rather harsh if youve just been dabbing and you dont do a ridiculous amount at once
[08:28:19] <renesis> also you can get high CBD oil, greater CBD to THC ratios than you can get in typical buds
[08:28:26] <renesis> CBD is weird
[08:28:41] <Jymmm> Lookng for higher CBD,
[08:28:42] <renesis> you dont feel stoned, it doesnt fuzz your mem, you just feel okay
[08:29:02] <Jymmm> renesis: This is for pain management
[08:29:05] <renesis> like, stoners can be totally functional even stoned as fuck
[08:29:12] <renesis> but cbd is just like, not stoned
[08:29:24] <renesis> yeah cbd is prob good for that
[08:29:53] <renesis> it seems to be for me, personally, but i dont know if more or less than reg stuff
[08:29:57] <Jymmm> Hang on, let me findthe strains that work well, wrote them down...
[08:30:06] <renesis> but yeah, the clear head is a trip
[08:30:17] <renesis> well, industrial hemp prob works well
[08:30:30] <renesis> just grown like recreational buds
[08:30:54] <malcom2073> I stumbled into the pot irc? Lol
[08:31:25] <renesis> typically its been looked down upon because because cbd uses same receptors, actually blocks the marijuana buzz if you do enough
[08:31:30] <renesis> weed is the anti weed
[08:31:43] <renesis> malcom2073: yeah kinda, it started as nicotine e-cigs
[08:32:01] <malcom2073> Ecigs are the gateway dug
[08:32:05] <malcom2073> Drug? :p
[08:32:10] <renesis> anything is a gateway drug
[08:32:15] <malcom2073> Life is
[08:32:18] <renesis> the concept of gateway drug is pretty ridiculous
[08:32:22] <renesis> yeah pretty much
[08:32:52] <renesis> pre-teen socialization is a gateway drug
[08:33:21] <Jymmm> renesis: Ok, can't find them right now, but no matter.
[08:34:00] <Jymmm> renesis: Besides that atty and those wicks, anythings else needed?
[08:34:21] <renesis> not really
[08:34:25] <renesis> drip tip
[08:34:36] <renesis> and a battery
[08:34:41] <Jymmm> renesis: I'd rather have soemthign I can fill once or twice a day.
[08:34:56] <renesis> look into normal rebuildable atomizers
[08:35:05] <renesis> they usually have some sort of tank solution
[08:35:20] <renesis> or a deeper tray
[08:35:57] <renesis> like, i had a kanger protank 3, and one of my attys is awesome
[08:36:09] <renesis> i do unflavored so my attys last forever, basically
[08:36:16] <renesis> 6 months easy
[08:36:29] <Jymmm> WTF is a kanger protank 3? lol
[08:36:37] <renesis> but if i screw any other atomizer carts into the kanger, it works diff
[08:36:58] <renesis> its a tank atomizer, uses proprietary atty carts
[08:37:42] <renesis> like, $25, comes with two atty carts, holds maybe 1.5 ml of juice, very nice mechanicals, design and fab and materials
[08:37:51] <Jymmm> Ok, I'm looking at this: http://www.myvaporstore.com/Kanger-Protank-3-Dual-Coil-p/krpt3-k.htm
[08:38:05] <renesis> thats what i have
[08:38:06] <Jymmm> is that what you're talking about?
[08:38:13] <renesis> two actually, i thought i lost one
[08:38:19] <renesis> yes exactly
[08:38:25] <renesis> theyre good for what they are
[08:38:50] <Jymmm> and what is propritary about them?
[08:38:54] <renesis> but RDA (rebuildable drip atty) are way more convenient for me, because they dont fuckup
[08:39:26] <renesis> the attomizer coils are built into a little threaded cylinder with silicone gaskets and orings
[08:40:24] <yeah_dominik> hey, I just ran the jitter test on my machine. I was quite stable for about an hour at about 10.5k, after coming back a bit later it jumped to 400k oO any idea what might have happened?
[08:40:33] <Jymmm> renesis: 2nd from the left http://cdn3.volusion.com/pnhwe.bmygz/v/vspfiles/photos/KRPT3-K-5.jpg?1399638348
[08:40:45] <Jymmm> renesis: that can NTO be rebuild is what you are saing?
[08:40:45] <renesis> on the right
[08:40:47] <Jymmm> NOT*
[08:40:56] <renesis> 2nd from the left is the thing on the right threaded into the base
[08:41:05] <renesis> thats a whole kit, they come with two so you have a spare
[08:41:33] <renesis> and yeah i dont think they are easily rebuilt, ive not tried, theyre tiny as fuck i wouldnt even know where to start
[08:42:34] <renesis> the drip tips are very nice, i use the kanger tip on my rda
[08:42:53] <Jymmm> So it's 'drips' or 'tanks' ?
[08:43:03] <Jymmm> venacualer?
[08:43:07] <renesis> its a tank
[08:43:34] <renesis> you fill the glass cylinder, and then screw ini the base (with the atty already installed)
[08:43:47] <Jymmm> and they all fit the same base?
[08:44:13] <renesis> hard to see but there are little silica wick ends sticking out of the attys
[08:44:40] <renesis> like, sitting on the flange a couple mm below the edge of the silicone gasket
[08:45:05] <renesis> yeah the base is the knurled part with 510 threads on the bottom
[08:45:15] <Jymmm> What do YOU clen them with?
[08:45:18] <Jymmm> clean
[08:45:33] <renesis> alcohol
[08:45:53] <Jymmm> Oh, I've been using vodka
[08:45:57] <renesis> but theyre difficult to clean and dry out because enclosed
[08:46:02] <renesis> so easier to just replace
[08:46:10] <Jymmm> ah
[08:46:15] <renesis> vodka prob doesnt work as well but its prob more paletable
[08:46:25] <Jymmm> and less toxic =)
[08:46:30] <renesis> right
[08:46:44] <renesis> or exactly toxic enough, i guess
[08:46:48] <Jymmm> Just cant get everclear here is all
[08:46:54] <renesis> california?
[08:47:01] <Jymmm> yep
[08:47:08] <renesis> yeah its just 151
[08:47:39] <renesis> like,, there is an assembly line to water down everyclear for californians
[08:47:57] <renesis> thats always been funny to me
[08:48:27] <Jymmm> bottle of cheap vodka has been working. But what I might do is use 191 proof denatured alcohol, then rinse with vodka instead.
[08:48:37] <renesis> i use 99% iso to clean bongs and pipes, you just have to get shit 100% clean
[08:48:49] <renesis> you can get 99% at ralphs i think
[08:49:08] <Jymmm> I have denatured in gallon cans
[08:49:13] <renesis> safeway, one of them always has 99%, and im not confusing 99% with 91%
[08:49:21] <renesis> yeah but thats poisonous on purpose
[08:49:31] <renesis> iso im okay with, its not that bad
[08:49:33] <Jymmm> thus the vodka rinse
[08:49:50] <renesis> check first aid when you go shopping
[08:50:07] <renesis> if they have 99%, buy a bunch, shit is so useful
[08:50:15] <Jymmm> heh, yeah
[08:50:21] <renesis> or i guess you could buy lab grade from someplace
[08:50:34] <renesis> but i dont think its cheaper because its 99.999 stuff
[08:50:34] <Jymmm> Can't, that is why I've been using vodka
[08:51:00] <renesis> grainger might have it
[08:51:11] <Jymmm> I tried to get Food Grade alcohol, not easy to come by inn smaller qty's
[08:51:33] <renesis> oh thats prob hard as fuck to get
[08:51:42] <renesis> in small quantities
[08:51:44] <Jymmm> It's what we used to use oon production line cleaning of equipment.
[08:52:06] <renesis> http://www.grainger.com/product/TECHSPRAY-Isopropyl-Alcohol-6KCK5?s_pp=false&picUrl=//static.grainger.com/rp/s/is/image/Grainger/6KCK5_AS01?$smthumb$
[08:52:10] <Jymmm> Maybe I can hit one of the local winerys
[08:52:23] <renesis> not sure if thats cheaper
[08:52:51] <renesis> also i like 99% because if you leave it out, when you get back to it itll still be usable
[08:53:16] <Jymmm> heh, yeah denatured evaps instntly
[08:53:17] <renesis> even 90%, leave it uncaped a few hours, come back and shit is half water
[08:53:54] <renesis> but yeah i dont like using iso unless i know i can get the thing 100% clean and dry
[08:54:16] <Jymmm> renesis: I have a nitrogen tank if need be =)
[08:54:24] <renesis> i dont like it for ecig atty carts because of that
[08:54:33] <renesis> brutal
[08:54:46] <Jymmm> whats brutal?
[08:55:05] <renesis> nitrogen as a solvent
[08:55:18] <Jymmm> no no no, as a gas, to remove all liquid
[08:55:28] <Jymmm> not LN2
[08:55:32] <renesis> k
[08:56:03] <Jymmm> 40CF tank I use as I dont have a compressor
[08:56:21] <renesis> nice
[08:56:55] <Jymmm> I found out it works GREAT for packing certain food stuffs in 2L soda bottles, as it displaces the oxugen 100%
[08:57:16] <renesis> because heavier?
[08:57:31] <renesis> thats kind of neat
[08:57:58] <Jymmm> Grains are notorious for what is called "seed bugs"
[08:58:15] <Jymmm> You can freeze it, nuke it, and it doesn't matter, they will still grow.
[08:59:02] <_methods> hehe just don't go scuba diving after eating a bunch of nitrogen beans
[08:59:51] <Jymmm> But, as a test, I packed them in 2L bottles, ran a tiny hose to the bottom of the bottle, sow flow the nitrogen tank, and filled the bottle. No oxygen inthe bottle at all. no bugs even after 12 months of storage.
[09:00:14] <Jymmm> usually they are evendent in 60 days
[09:02:01] <Jymmm> renesis: why cotton instead of silica?
[09:08:29] <Jymmm> renesis: Worth it? http://www.fasttech.com/product/1292300
[09:12:12] <Jymmm> renesis: Is "mech mod" basically just the battery pack?
[09:12:15] <Jymmm> renesis: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ih807Fm4g7A
[09:14:07] <lair82> pcw_home, you around/
[09:26:05] <renesis> jymmm: mech mod is just a battery holder and a mechanical switch
[09:26:16] <pcw_home> Yeah
[09:26:37] <renesis> you can get digital mods, variable voltage or variable wattage
[09:26:49] <renesis> more to break
[09:26:57] <renesis> they can be nice when they work tho
[09:31:42] <lair82> Good Morning pcw, Hope you had a good holiday, Quick question, I am wiring up that 7i52, and was wondering about the shield wire on the cables. All of the CAT5 cables I am using are sheilded, along with the cable coming from the fanuc encoder, should I land them on an external ground, or can I run them in on the respective ground terminal for each device?
[09:32:29] <Tom_itx> Star GND is always good
[09:33:18] <Tom_itx> ie return them all to a single point
[09:33:20] <renesis> ideally shields are connected to chassis/earth on only one side of the cable
[09:33:29] <Tom_itx> that as well
[09:33:29] <lair82> When I wired up the ENCY card last week, I just looped the shield wire around that and soldered them together
[09:33:49] <renesis> yeah its basically star grounded
[09:33:53] <renesis> cant loop
[09:34:58] <lair82> I am not sure what the shield wire does inside of the fanuc encoder though, guess I could ohm it out against the machine to see if it is connected internally.
[09:35:02] <Tom_itx> just so you don't have multiple return GND paths
[09:35:05] <renesis> the problem with connecting shield to a system ground instead of a safety/earth/chassis ground is if the interference is really bad, it fuck your system ground
[09:35:52] <pcw_home> Typically is better to terminate the shield only at the encoder counter end
[09:36:12] <pcw_home> (7I52 end in this case)
[09:37:39] <lair82> OK, I will go check to see if it is landed on the encoder end, if it is, see if I can unhook it, and then land all the shield's on the panel
[09:37:59] <lair82> Thanks Guys
[09:38:43] <pcw_home> You Dont want the motor case gnd (which tends to be electrically dirty) returned the ground of sensitive circuitry
[09:39:32] <renesis> alternatively, if your chassis is fucked up dirty, the connected shield can couple that into your signal
[09:40:14] <renesis> depends mostly on parasitic capacitance and inductance and very low conductor resistances, so its hard to predict
[09:40:38] <lair82> It shouldn't be hooked to motor, the encoder is directly coupled to the motor, it is a stand-alone unit on the spindle.
[09:40:58] <renesis> star grounds and dead current shields are best, but sometimes you have to play with how things are oriented, or where connected
[09:41:09] <lair82> "isn't directly coupled"
[09:41:29] <pcw_home> Probably not much of an issue with differential signaling
[09:41:31] <lair82> still a little early for me, and a head cold too boot
[09:41:41] <renesis> yeah so you should be good connecting ground to system, and shield to chassis, without loops
[09:41:52] <CaptHindsight> http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/acstrial/newsletters/winter08/design_tips.pdf Design Tip: A Detailed Look at Shielded Cable Terminations
[09:42:43] <CaptHindsight> http://www.picwire.com/technical/grounding.php
[09:45:58] <CaptHindsight> http://www.analog.com/static/imported-files/tutorials/MT-095.pdf EMI, RFI, and Shielding Concepts
[09:46:45] <renesis> fuck man
[09:46:54] <renesis> too early in the morning for EMC docs
[09:47:23] <CaptHindsight> http://www.ieee.li/pdf/viewgraphs/emc_design_fundamentals.pdf
[09:47:34] <renesis> failing a scan at the EMC lab is a great way to learn about parasitics
[09:47:40] <CaptHindsight> http://www.pmccorp.com/support/manuals/emc.pdf
[09:48:51] <CaptHindsight> https://cas.web.cern.ch/cas/France-2008/Lectures/Charoy-AEMC.pdf
[09:49:21] <CaptHindsight> failing is a great way to learn
[09:49:54] <renesis> failing at the emc lab is a few $k down the drain
[09:50:08] <CaptHindsight> learn faster :)
[09:50:32] <archivist> test before you take it to the $ lab
[09:50:37] <renesis> we would bring our irons and a lot of caps, ferrites, resistors and diodes
[09:50:42] <CaptHindsight> diy chicken coup and spectrum analyzer
[09:50:57] <renesis> archivist: we did but a faraday cage isnt the same as being at the lab
[09:51:05] <renesis> dont have that kind of space
[09:51:20] <CaptHindsight> http://qtwork.tudelft.nl/~schouten/linkload/grounding.pdf
[09:51:30] <renesis> and results were not 1:1, we had an ideo of our setup versus theirs tho
[09:51:44] <renesis> we wouldnt even go to the lab unless we thought we had close to 6db headroom
[09:51:52] <archivist> we had wonderful fun removing hum from a noise amp we made
[09:52:42] <archivist> source was the toroid power transformer, induced into the pcb tracks
[09:52:50] <renesis> i always thought testing for esd immunity was fun
[09:53:06] <renesis> archivist: was the toroid pcb mounted?
[09:53:09] <CaptHindsight> design for EMI and EMC then you blame it on the Chinese contract manufacturer for substituting the wrong values if there's a problem later :)
[09:53:14] <renesis> toroids usually pretty good about that stuff
[09:53:36] <renesis> capthindsight: they sent you a substitution paper
[09:53:44] <renesis> even if they didnt, they did, theyll have a copy
[09:54:01] <CaptHindsight> or wait 10 minutes for them to find it
[09:54:07] <archivist> renesis, no was bolted to the diecast box side
[09:54:31] <renesis> ha, sounds like a weird loop
[09:54:34] <archivist> 90 degrees from the usual way, baaaad
[09:54:52] <renesis> was their a conductive loop through it?
[09:54:59] <archivist> nope
[09:55:02] <renesis> via the mount hardware
[09:55:16] <renesis> yeah thats weird
[09:55:52] <archivist> we had to rotate for a minimum on each amp
[09:56:21] <renesis> was an open toroid, im guessing?
[09:56:29] <renesis> not a shielded/potted job
[09:56:35] <archivist> we went to a larger box and flat mount for the next iteration
[09:56:57] <archivist> open
[09:57:03] <renesis> i dont think ive ever seen anything except flat mount
[09:57:30] <renesis> but my guess is because its just easier to mount like that
[09:57:34] <archivist> someone tried to cram more in a small box
[09:57:39] <renesis> maybe better thermal mounting on an edge
[09:58:33] <renesis> man i dont wanna go to work
[09:58:36] <CaptHindsight> I had to fix some custom RF welders years ago for vinyl folders. They were all designed and built by ME's and have 5KW RF tubes.
[09:58:45] <renesis> want to stay home play with microcontroller
[09:58:50] <archivist> the designer moved on after that version I got to do the next
[09:58:57] <renesis> nice
[09:59:12] <CaptHindsight> they could light up fluorescent tubes a few feet away
[09:59:16] <archivist> hehe
[09:59:21] <renesis> haha
[09:59:47] <renesis> well if its a one off, better to make sure
[10:00:00] <CaptHindsight> the RF was riding on top of the 24V DC for the logic in the cabinets
[10:00:19] <CaptHindsight> got in through the AC power line
[10:00:41] <renesis> ferrite all the things!
[10:00:51] <CaptHindsight> was coupled by a supposed AC noise filter
[10:00:54] <renesis> the clip on ones are rather convenient
[10:01:04] <renesis> haha! oops
[10:02:19] <CaptHindsight> I even ran the AC power in through conduit and it made no difference. The filters case had to be floated from the control cabinets ground
[10:03:16] <CaptHindsight> they did just about everything wrong, no feed through caps, no ferrites, multiple grounds etc etc
[10:04:28] <CaptHindsight> it reallyjust needed to be rewired properly but what do you do when the machines are already installed in a remote location
[10:05:15] <CaptHindsight> fix it, and if it runs a few days without issues, pack it in and send them the bill
[10:07:57] <CaptHindsight> the worst was trying to figure out the culprit in a factory full of fanuc controlled lathes, some would crash every day around the same time
[10:08:57] <renesis> wow that bad
[10:10:35] <CaptHindsight> ended up being the AC power into the factory
[10:10:44] <archivist> I had a server die around 7pm on a regular basis, was mrs mop and her cleaner
[10:10:44] <Tom_itx> lunch bell set it off?
[10:11:16] <_methods> yeah i've dealt with that ac power dip or bump issue before
[10:11:25] <CaptHindsight> there was a factory full of welders nearby
[10:13:08] <_methods> we would have too much voltage until all the lasers and their chillers got fired up
[10:13:20] <_methods> then they would draw off enough that the fanuc controllers wouldn't error out
[10:33:31] <Loetmichel> Jymmm / renesis: h have a few Kanger Evod... and 2 "mechs"
[10:33:56] <Loetmichel> http://www.cyrom.org/palbum/main.php?g2_itemId=14814
[10:34:13] <Loetmichel> http://www.cyrom.org/palbum/main.php?g2_itemId=14799
[10:34:29] <Loetmichel> http://www.cyrom.org/palbum/main.php?g2_itemId=15344&g2_imageViewsIndex=1
[10:34:30] <Loetmichel> :-)
[10:35:14] <Loetmichel> ... and yes, the istick has an 18650 inside. -> http://www.cyrom.org/palbum/main.php?g2_itemId=15374
[10:35:58] <Loetmichel> ... at least it has now ;-)
[10:44:03] <zeeshan> are people working today
[10:48:11] <renesis> kinda
[10:48:28] <renesis> moving some shelves to make some lab space, hardly work
[10:49:27] <renesis> we got a new used audio precision 2700 series last week, with a serial audio interface (i2s, pcm)
[10:49:50] <renesis> getting one of the new ap 500 series this week, and some GRAS mics and headphone fixtures
[10:50:00] <renesis> next week should be fun
[10:50:01] <zeeshan> no idea what that is
[10:50:02] <zeeshan> hehe
[10:50:26] <renesis> audio test gear, measurement mics
[10:50:49] <renesis> i think they bought too many AP
[10:51:18] <renesis> i would have gotten a CLIO, cheap but effective, more suited towards acoustics, can do turntable control for polar measurements
[10:51:26] <renesis> we gotta spin by hand right now =\
[10:51:41] <renesis> but hey i was gone, they did their best!
[10:54:07] <archivist> not using B&K mics!
[10:55:35] <archivist> our mic amp/power supply were for jet engine noise measurement, the B&K stuff would rot in the rain, the mics are ok though
[10:56:33] <zeeshan> thats what they use in the sound lab at school
[10:56:37] <zeeshan> fancy b&k mics
[10:56:40] <zeeshan> apparently they cost a lot
[10:56:42] <zeeshan> like 10k ?
[10:56:51] * zeeshan didnt think mics could cost that much
[10:57:24] <archivist> I thought the basic capsule was around £200 in the 1980's
[10:58:42] <archivist> I need to make a battery holder to get my pistonphone running, it is designed for the old mercury battery cells
[11:02:17] <zeeshan> https://www.flickr.com/photos/128539016@N05/16133168871/in/photostream/
[11:02:22] <zeeshan> shortened the damn spacers yesterday night
[11:02:34] <zeeshan> can't wait to get this mess cleane dup
[11:03:22] <Connor> Looking good. You going to weld, or bolt the vertical bars to the horizontal ?
[11:03:45] <zeeshan> drill and tap likely
[11:03:50] <zeeshan> for maximum adjustability
[11:03:51] <zeeshan> hehe
[11:04:11] <zeeshan> (actually reason is my weld bench is full of automotive crap right now)
[11:04:19] <Connor> you might want another standoff for the lower right hand side.. maybe on the vertical bar itself ?
[11:04:33] <Connor> midway up.
[11:04:54] <zeeshan> i was thinking of welding a bracket to that one
[11:05:00] <zeeshan> if its needed
[11:05:06] <zeeshan> with those c clamps tightened
[11:05:16] <zeeshan> and me and my gf standing on the right most side of the frame
[11:05:19] <zeeshan> it barely moves
[11:06:06] <Connor> So, you changed your mind and decided to mount the enclosure to the side of the machine instead of on the wall huh? :)
[11:06:30] <zeeshan> yes
[11:06:37] <zeeshan> i realized a couple of the wires
[11:06:42] <zeeshan> are too short to make it to the wall
[11:07:28] <zeeshan> i need to get this stuff done today
[11:07:36] <zeeshan> and try to get the lathe moved to the basement
[11:07:43] <zeeshan> i need to make space in the garage fast!
[11:07:56] <archivist> get rid of the car :)
[11:07:58] <Connor> What lathe ?
[11:08:02] <zeeshan> no archivist
[11:08:05] <zeeshan> connor the cnc lathe
[11:08:09] <zeeshan> i bought a monarch lathe
[11:08:18] <zeeshan> which i think im gonna swap all my cnc stuff to
[11:08:33] <Connor> Didn't know.
[11:08:39] <Connor> Where is the lathe at now ?
[11:08:46] <zeeshan> at a machine shop in toronto
[11:09:04] <zeeshan> im going wednesday to get a better idea on how to move it
[11:09:07] <zeeshan> i bought it blindly :P
[11:09:18] <Connor> Why/
[11:09:18] <zeeshan> $300!!
[11:09:21] <Connor> Oh.
[11:09:25] <Connor> Pictures ?
[11:09:27] <zeeshan> monarch 14c
[11:09:44] <zeeshan> http://i.ebayimg.com/00/s/ODAwWDYwMA==/z/qrUAAOSwwTlUoBP1/$_20.JPG
[11:09:49] <zeeshan> thats all i have..
[11:09:52] <zeeshan> and im going by based on what he's told me
[11:10:04] <zeeshan> the guts are there
[11:10:17] <archivist> thats aheavy mutha
[11:10:19] <zeeshan> it's been sitting collecting dust
[11:10:33] <zeeshan> archivist: yea!!
[11:10:55] <zeeshan> i sent a deposit within 2 hours of posting
[11:11:00] <zeeshan> i was worried hes a scammer or something
[11:11:09] <zeeshan> but my gf msged from her phone asking some q's about the lathe
[11:11:12] <zeeshan> and he told her it was sold :)
[11:11:30] <zeeshan> sounds like an old guy who's selling all his stuff
[11:11:33] <zeeshan> so he can sell his building..
[11:11:44] <zeeshan> the building is @ a prime location in toronto, worth well over 5 million
[11:12:12] <zeeshan> he has a wire edm there for 800
[11:12:15] <zeeshan> but its too tall for my place :(
[11:12:38] <zeeshan> http://i.ebayimg.com/00/s/ODAwWDYwMA==/z/Yv8AAOSw7ThUoBP-/$_20.JPG
[11:12:50] <zeeshan> http://i.ebayimg.com/00/s/ODAwWDYwMA==/z/5soAAOSw~uhUoBP5/$_20.JPG
[11:13:28] <zeeshan> can you lift this style of lathe from the chip pan? :P
[11:13:35] <zeeshan> where do the forks go
[11:13:56] <zeeshan> or do you just lift from the bed
[11:14:05] <archivist> I moved my southbend on rollers
[11:14:48] <zeeshan> i can't decide whether i should sell the cnc lathe
[11:14:50] <zeeshan> w/ all the controls
[11:14:51] <archivist> so long ago, they may have forked it onto my trailer
[11:15:03] <zeeshan> or if i should just rip apart the controls and put them on this machine
[11:15:10] <zeeshan> and sell the chinese lathe as is
[11:15:20] <zeeshan> (it has no threading gearbox =/)
[11:15:33] <zeeshan> or power feed anymore!
[11:15:33] <zeeshan> so it might be worthless.
[11:15:43] <zeeshan> archivist: haha
[11:15:44] <lair82> zeeshan, we have a 18" monarch and I believe we wrapped 2 slings thru the webbing in the bed and picked it up that way, I will have to check
[11:16:00] <zeeshan> lair82: ahh
[11:16:08] <zeeshan> what center to center distance?
[11:16:53] <lair82> That mills awfully similar to one we have, only ours is a hermle with the table being an integrated 4th axis
[11:17:03] <zeeshan> the sodick?
[11:17:11] <lair82> I think its around 40"
[11:17:35] <zeeshan> i really want the edm.
[11:17:37] <zeeshan> but no where to put it
[11:17:45] <lair82> No that Mikron
[11:17:49] <zeeshan> oh
[11:18:03] <archivist> keep it in the garden till you build a shed
[11:18:30] <zeeshan> lair82: it almost seems like mikron, dekel, maho, hermle
[11:18:33] <zeeshan> are very very similar machines.
[11:18:42] <lair82> It has a Heidenhain T155 control on it, mostly conversational programming
[11:18:47] <zeeshan> archivist: hahaha
[11:19:01] <zeeshan> im pretty sure that thing would sink the garden by 40 feet
[11:19:08] <zeeshan> lair82: i had the same control
[11:19:19] <zeeshan> what servo amp?
[11:19:25] <zeeshan> philips or bosch
[11:19:46] <lair82> I believe your right, must be importing the castings then labeling and putting there own controls on them.
[11:19:59] <lair82> Siemens
[11:20:20] <zeeshan> ah
[11:20:32] <lair82> For both the spindle and slides
[11:20:52] <zeeshan> does your have gear shifters
[11:21:16] <lair82> are you still utilizing the heidehain encoders on the machine?
[11:21:23] <lair82> Yes it does
[11:21:26] <zeeshan> yes lair82
[11:21:29] <zeeshan> im using interpolators
[11:21:34] <zeeshan> and feeding them into the mesa 7i77
[11:21:54] <zeeshan> i burned my gear shifter card
[11:22:01] <zeeshan> by putting vcc into the wrong pin cause i had no schematics
[11:22:03] <lair82> Interpolators???
[11:22:28] <zeeshan> lair82: heidenhain glass scales output analog waves tha tneed to be discretized
[11:22:40] <Connor> gear shifter card ? On the orignal machine ?
[11:22:47] <zeeshan> connor yea
[11:22:57] <zeeshan> remember that card i was trying to reverse engineer?
[11:22:59] <Connor> You going to try to repair it, or replace it, or do something else ?
[11:23:03] <Connor> No.
[11:23:09] <zeeshan> nahh, im gonna just make my own board
[11:23:12] <lair82> Where are you located zeeshan?
[11:23:14] <zeeshan> its a simple hall effect sensor
[11:23:21] <zeeshan> in 3 positions
[11:23:37] <zeeshan> lair82: near toronto, canada
[11:23:56] <zeeshan> Connor: plus im too stupid to figure out that board
[11:24:18] <lair82> I see, we have some customers in toronto, I used to work for a company based out of concord.
[11:24:26] <zeeshan> lair82: where are you?
[11:24:59] <lair82> 10 mins north of toledo Ohio, in a little town called Petersburg Michigan
[11:25:06] <zeeshan> oh not far at all
[11:25:16] <zeeshan> you should buy that wire edm
[11:25:16] <lair82> Nope, not really
[11:25:17] <zeeshan> it's a steal lol
[11:26:10] <lair82> They were actually looking at a brand new soddick, STICKER SHOCK!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
[11:26:35] <zeeshan> prolly half a million? :P
[11:26:57] <lair82> Around 345,000 :(
[11:27:03] <zeeshan> damn
[11:27:19] <lair82> Lots, and lots of payments
[11:27:39] <lair82> We have a Charmile 510 right now
[11:27:57] <lair82> and its a pile :)
[11:28:00] <zeeshan> now that is a machine that would fit in my garage
[11:28:13] <lair82> You can have it
[11:28:14] <zeeshan> its not super tall like this sodick :/
[11:28:23] <zeeshan> haha
[11:28:31] <lair82> This only about 7' tall
[11:29:50] <lair82> Guess I better get back to hooking up my mill, I will probably half to look you up when it gets time to retro my Hermle, The boss is getting tired of the conversational BS!!
[11:30:04] <zeeshan> haha
[11:42:52] <CaptHindsight> http://www.ebay.com/itm/like/261352417239?lpid=82 whats the time per sand cast of one of these? from pour to cool to the touch
[11:44:23] <CaptHindsight> http://i.ebayimg.com/00/s/MTIwMFgxNjAw/z/AO4AAOxydlFSqPcD/$_57.JPG
[11:51:00] <archivist> not long
[11:51:47] <CaptHindsight> lair82: Thomas Powderly (sp?) is the EDM guru here
[11:52:02] <unfy> someone in here earlier was discussing with me some mini stepper motor stuffs, but i ended up buying some bigger than what he was discussing. they arrived today.
[11:52:29] <unfy> that would be a bitch to sand cast... that's a lot of thin flat planes
[11:53:02] <archivist> I bet all the cost is in the machine and molds
[11:53:08] <unfy> but, i'll hush. i'm not really well versed enough to talk that much about it.
[11:53:40] <CaptHindsight> V cast is possible but I don't think it was originally done with it
[11:54:08] <CaptHindsight> V-process
[11:54:23] <CaptHindsight> http://www.harmonycastings.com/v-process_casting.php
[11:54:34] <CaptHindsight> http://www.harmonycastings.com/v-process_casting.php
[11:55:02] <CaptHindsight> meaant http://www.engineersedge.com/manufacturing/sand_casting_vacuum_molding_vprocess_10236.htm
[11:55:06] <lair82> Thanks CaptHindsight, I was talking about his horizontal mill
[11:55:48] <unfy> i've been considering vacuum forming plastic for mold stuffs
[11:56:04] <CaptHindsight> !seen tjt33r
[11:56:04] <the_wench> Never heard of the entity tjt33r you ask for
[11:56:14] <CaptHindsight> whats his nick again?
[11:57:31] <archivist> tomp or a variation iirc
[11:57:53] <CaptHindsight> !seen tjtr33
[11:57:53] <the_wench> last seen in 2014-02-03 08:56:50GMT 838:59:59 ago, saying MySQL server development | For help using MySQL, try #mysql | See http://forge.mysql.com/wiki/ | We're here, but it may take a while to respond
[12:00:44] <unfy> heh
[12:00:46] <archivist> never seen that bug from the bot
[12:00:59] <archivist> !seen tomp
[12:00:59] <the_wench> last seen in 2013-02-23 03:44:09GMT 838:59:59 ago, saying Client Quit
[12:01:08] <archivist> !seen tomp
[12:01:08] <the_wench> last seen in 2014-02-03 08:56:50GMT 838:59:59 ago, saying MySQL server development | For help using MySQL, try #mysql | See http://forge.mysql.com/wiki/ | We're here, but it may take a while to respond
[12:01:17] <unfy> !seen PeteFromTN
[12:01:18] <the_wench> last seen in 2014-08-01 06:11:25GMT 838:59:59 ago, saying Quit: Bye
[12:01:23] <archivist> must clean teh spaces
[12:01:35] <_methods> !seen blahblah
[12:01:35] <the_wench> last seen in 2010-06-30 16:02:15GMT 838:59:59 ago, saying Client Quit
[12:01:55] <_methods> !seen blah
[12:01:55] <the_wench> last seen in 2014-10-21 21:51:57GMT 838:59:59 ago, saying joined chan
[12:02:22] <archivist> that extra space is the problem
[12:02:48] <CaptHindsight> !seen tjtr33
[12:02:49] <the_wench> last seen in #linuxcnc 2014-12-25 17:50:21GMT 95:52:13 ago, saying pygcodeviewer one of a few python gcode parser/displayers HTH bye!
[12:02:53] <CaptHindsight> yeah
[12:04:13] <_methods> i'm pretty sure cnn is making these planes disappear now for ratings
[12:05:58] <unfy> someone watches cnn ?
[12:06:03] <CaptHindsight> the new bermuda triangle
[12:06:09] <roycroft> global warming has blown the bermuda triangle to asia
[12:06:40] <CaptHindsight> Fox has been off Dish Network for 2+ weeks, viewership IQ is up by 5 points
[12:07:11] <roycroft> it's obama's fault - if bush were still president he would be denying global warming and the bermuda triangle would have stayed put
[12:07:26] <Computer_Barf> meh.. cnn, fox, msnbc.. statism all around.
[12:07:40] <_methods> satanism......
[12:07:50] <roycroft> well isn't that special
[12:07:52] <unfy> not sure when the last time i turned on the tv was. 3 years ago ? 4?
[12:08:10] <CaptHindsight> <-- not flying out of Malaysia anytime soon
[12:08:17] <_methods> i normally watch the daily show at lunch
[12:08:22] <_methods> but they're on break
[12:08:25] <Tom_itx> unfy, you sure that wasn't the microwave
[12:08:29] <_methods> so i was surfin
[12:08:29] <roycroft> i don't fly any more - not since 9/11
[12:08:38] <roycroft> i'm not interested in playing the security theatre game
[12:08:50] <unfy> nah, i use the microwave a few times a week :D
[12:08:57] <CaptHindsight> Last Week Tonight with John Oliver: New Year's Eve (Web Exclusive) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eAFnby2184o
[12:09:01] <Tom_itx> i don't fly anymore since they started charging so damn much
[12:09:03] <CaptHindsight> his show has been great
[12:09:04] <_methods> i'd be happy if everyone had to wear hospital gowns
[12:09:07] <_methods> and no carry ons
[12:09:28] <_methods> mainly just no carry ons
[12:09:36] <roycroft> i just stay in my timezone
[12:09:42] <Computer_Barf> I like the humor of the daily show but I can't watch it anymore, their just as guilty of clip context manipulation.
[12:09:46] <CaptHindsight> no snakes or kids either after 4pm
[12:09:53] <roycroft> my policy has the added advantage of avoiding jetlag
[12:10:05] <_methods> there's always a bunch of assholes tryin to stuff full size suitcases in the overheads now
[12:10:10] <Tom_itx> _methods, yeah if they eliminated carry ons they could cram a few more people up there!
[12:10:15] <roycroft> it's a comedy show, not a news show, computer_barf
[12:10:18] <_methods> hahah
[12:10:21] <_methods> overhead seats
[12:10:27] <Tom_itx> retractable
[12:10:31] <_methods> hahah brilliant
[12:10:38] <_methods> just keep that idea to yourself please
[12:10:42] <Tom_itx> don't let that secret out
[12:10:46] <Tom_itx> they might try it
[12:10:50] <_methods> exactly
[12:11:06] <_methods> take farting on the plane to a whole new level
[12:11:06] <CaptHindsight> put everyone in trailing gliders, any sign of trouble cut the cable
[12:11:24] <Computer_Barf> roycroft: yes but they consistently use it as a platform to try to sway people irregardless.
[12:11:55] <Tom_itx> CaptHindsight, first class could be tied to bungie cords for the extra ride experience
[12:11:58] <Computer_Barf> It lends them a certain degree of intellectual cover , hey we were just joking, but agree with us anyway
[12:12:09] <CaptHindsight> wee need that 1-14 hour coma pill
[12:12:09] <_methods> oh i don't agree with 75% of what they put on the daily show
[12:12:16] <_methods> but it doesn't mean it's not funny
[12:12:26] <Computer_Barf> yeah i agree that they are funny
[12:13:00] <zeeshan> CaptHindsight: i think that is sand cast
[12:13:01] <zeeshan> er
[12:13:03] <zeeshan> die cast
[12:13:04] <CaptHindsight> they are considering standing up only on some flights
[12:13:15] <_methods> slick the plane out
[12:13:24] <_methods> butt to butt on the floor
[12:14:04] <roycroft> i would suggest that selective clipping is not as bad as outright lies
[12:14:20] <CaptHindsight> no carry ons would change things as well, except for people with large or very flexible orifices
[12:14:23] <roycroft> such as fox recently did regarding the police protest in baltimore
[12:14:44] <roycroft> the crowd were chanting "we can't stop, we won't stop, 'til killer cops are in cell blocks"
[12:14:56] <CaptHindsight> but duct take could fix that
[12:15:01] <CaptHindsight> take/tape
[12:15:11] <roycroft> fox played a clipped version of the video, with the sound partially muted, and claimed the chant was "we can't stop, we won't stop, kill the cops"
[12:15:25] <CaptHindsight> heh
[12:15:35] <roycroft> that's not a distortion or out of context clip
[12:15:45] <CaptHindsight> the difference is that Fox isn't trying to be funny
[12:15:55] <_methods> haha sometimes you just gotta make your own news
[12:16:04] <_methods> or make a plane disappear
[12:16:10] <CaptHindsight> though they usually are
[12:16:42] <_methods> maybe their filming a new season of lost in malaysia
[12:16:57] <_methods> i sure hope not
[12:17:29] <_methods> if they only had that fat guy in the whole season it might be good though
[12:18:11] <CaptHindsight> any chance they could combine the series with the Kardashians?
[12:18:34] <_methods> hahahah
[12:19:16] <roycroft> you know, i watch television on a regular basis
[12:19:35] <roycroft> i've heard of the kardashians, but i don't think i would recognise one if i saw one
[12:19:44] <Computer_Barf> I think the police problems we are having are structural. We can't rearrange the chairs on the deck and expect things to change. It's the nature of the state to be based around force and coercion. So long as we enable monopolies on the use of force will we see the logical outgrowths of that occurring.
[12:19:44] <roycroft> i don't think it's the watching of television that's a problem
[12:19:50] <roycroft> it's what one watches on television
[12:20:48] <roycroft> one of our biggest problems regarding police is that we're increasingly militarizing them
[12:21:26] <_methods> i think that's a side effect of ex military filling their ranks when they come back and can't find employment
[12:21:41] <CaptHindsight> it's the double standard that people have a problem with, do we expect zero corruption and mistakes on the force, no, but this is way past acceptable
[12:21:46] <roycroft> and government programs to give old military gear to them
[12:21:54] <_methods> yeah
[12:22:11] <_methods> there will be tons more of old equipment makin its way to police forces for cheap
[12:22:22] <_methods> as we phase out these "wars"
[12:22:28] <roycroft> we need cops to be walking beats on the streets again
[12:22:35] <roycroft> instead of riding around in army gear
[12:22:51] <roycroft> their job is to protect and serve
[12:22:56] <roycroft> not rape and pillage
[12:23:11] <CaptHindsight> and screening for sociopathic behavior
[12:23:28] <CaptHindsight> it so be anti vs pro
[12:24:32] <Computer_Barf> I agree with the militarization points ,and the police state overseas coming back to work at home, but still see these as the logical conclusion to having engaged the power of the state as attempts to manage risks.
[12:25:08] <CaptHindsight> it works well to control a very socialized populace, it doesn't happen by accident
[12:25:27] <roycroft> shrink, i want to kill. i mean, i wanna. i wanna kill, kill. i wanna see, i wanna see blood and gore and guts and veins in my teeth. eat dead burnt bodies. i mean kill, kill, kill, kill.
[12:26:01] <roycroft> and i started jumping up and down shouting kill, kill, and the shrink started jumping up and down and we was both jumping up and down yelling kill, kill.
[12:26:14] <Computer_Barf> well if you think about it, militarization is a kind of socialization of defense solutions.
[12:26:14] <CaptHindsight> more women and especially mothers running things would keep us out of these "wars"
[12:26:30] <roycroft> and the sargeant came over, pinned a medal on me, sent me down the hall and said "you're our boy"
[12:26:50] <CaptHindsight> less testosterone and more critical thinking
[12:28:09] <Computer_Barf> I don't believe that one bit
[12:29:00] <Computer_Barf> I was reading a blog with that kind of viewpoint that had taken it really far, ill see if I can pull it up
[12:29:22] <Computer_Barf> I don't believe our social problems are a matter of too much testosterone
[12:30:21] <roycroft> our social problems are mostly a matter of too much corporate power
[12:30:24] <Computer_Barf> or some sort of dominance of patriarchy over women. I think women actually cheer-lead alot of the modern state as much as men.
[12:30:42] <Computer_Barf> roycroft: coporations are literal constructs of the state
[12:30:47] <roycroft> yes they are
[12:30:48] <CaptHindsight> zeeshan: did you look at the casting up close, looks like sand grain
[12:30:52] <roycroft> and now they are owners of the state
[12:30:53] <Jymmm> Lathe log splitter... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I57FCsvUajg
[12:31:10] <Computer_Barf> roycroft: well thats the problem when you hand out monopolies to the state.
[12:31:14] <roycroft> and perpetuating social unrest is their key mechanism to retain power
[12:31:28] <zeeshan> CaptHindsight: thats what makes me think its die cast
[12:31:30] <zeeshan> the surface finish
[12:31:32] <Computer_Barf> it acts in its own interest, negotiating those powers out for deals
[12:31:38] <roycroft> jefferson believed that corporations should not last more than a generation (30 years in his day)
[12:31:56] <zeeshan> intricate shapes like that are die cast
[12:31:59] <Computer_Barf> which is why we shouldn't legitimize the initiation of force through government
[12:31:59] <roycroft> form a corporation to build a bridge
[12:32:02] <roycroft> build the bridge
[12:32:05] <roycroft> disband the corporation
[12:32:26] <roycroft> the founding fathers did not want an aristocracy
[12:32:27] <CaptHindsight> Thomas Jefferson believed that a country's constitution should be rewritten every 19 years.
[12:32:41] <roycroft> that's why there are no titles of nobility in the us
[12:32:43] <Computer_Barf> but my point before was that corporations arn't free market institutions. They are are contractual constructs of the state
[12:33:01] <roycroft> corporations have morphed into our version of an aristocracy though
[12:33:16] <roycroft> you're absolutely correct, computer_barf
[12:33:23] <roycroft> there is not much of a free market in this country
[12:33:31] <roycroft> and hasn't been since the mid 19th century
[12:33:38] <Computer_Barf> Although i can relate to the sentiments of the jeffersonian minarchists, I believe that experiment has failed.
[12:33:47] <unfy> can't decide between a ~150$ usb scope, or a rigol 1052 ($300) or 2xxx series ($800)
[12:34:05] <CaptHindsight> now we just ignore the constitution
[12:34:27] <Computer_Barf> you should check out lysander spooners constitution of no authority
[12:34:34] <archivist> or a secondhand real scope for less
[12:35:20] <CaptHindsight> unfy: I pick up scopes on ebay all the time that just need simple calibrations, sometimes just the self calibration
[12:35:23] <unfy> second hand scopes make me nervous ... without being able to fiddle with them in person ... i just... ugh
[12:35:59] <Computer_Barf> although it would be superior to simply go back to practicing the original constitution, rather than what we practice today, I don't believe the constitution had legitimate authority in the first place
[12:36:00] <CaptHindsight> they arrive with the scary error code and 1 hour later are as good as new
[12:36:37] <CaptHindsight> Computer_Barf: was it written just to piss of KG?
[12:36:47] <CaptHindsight> of/off
[12:37:41] <Computer_Barf> I actually view the constitution as a conspiratorial action against will of not only the states, but all the people that never agreed or contracted to it.
[12:39:36] <Computer_Barf> lysander blows most of the standard arguments out of the water. They were right to assert their own sovereignty to KG, but they didn't have any right to start managing the will of all the people within the states.
[12:40:58] <Computer_Barf> thomas dilorenzo has some good work on this topic
[12:41:41] <Computer_Barf> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wDyDxgJuaDY
[12:42:29] <Computer_Barf> http://witchwind.wordpress.com/2014/10/07/utopia-what-would-a-womens-society-look-like/
[12:42:58] <Computer_Barf> this second link is that blog i mentioned, completely crazy womens society feminist
[12:43:09] <CaptHindsight> why always the extreme?
[12:43:21] <CaptHindsight> more women not women dominated
[12:43:58] <Computer_Barf> im just pointing out the extreme viewpoint because the logical faults are highlighted by the absurdity of the logical conclusion of the position.
[12:45:28] <Computer_Barf> im just saying, if you take that viewpoint further, this is where you end up. believing that getting rid of men or having men is significantly less power is suddenly going to change the way we farm or cause reforestation, the end of war, eliminate jails , etc.
[12:46:10] <Computer_Barf> It doesn't have any effect on the fact that the majority of women are devout statists, just like men.
[12:46:54] <CaptHindsight> retraining vs rewarding socipaths would also go a long way
[12:47:07] <Computer_Barf> remember world war 1 and the white feathers?
[12:48:13] <Computer_Barf> well, my position is that , if humanity has bad people within it, I don't believe that granting certain institutions monopolies on the use of force that which sociopaths can get jobs at will help.
[12:48:41] <Computer_Barf> stop giving people superpowers to impose violence. Its not legitimate to beat people up just because you put on a special costume.
[12:49:56] <CaptHindsight> getting rid of the current social training in public education
[12:49:56] <CaptHindsight> you have to undo all the was set up that put us here
[12:49:56] <CaptHindsight> it wasn't by accident
[12:50:00] <CaptHindsight> certainly not
[12:50:21] <CaptHindsight> but it works well to control people that have been socialized to feel powerless
[12:50:58] <CaptHindsight> and don't know what do it and have been accepting it since age 5 or earlier
[12:51:08] <CaptHindsight> -it
[12:51:20] <Computer_Barf> every step of public education is systematic training obedience to these power wells, yes.
[12:51:51] <_methods> well i think as police forces have and continue to be as effective as they are people will the need to revolt
[12:51:51] <CaptHindsight> I have to track down materials, bbl
[12:52:06] <_methods> *will feel
[12:52:59] <Computer_Barf> well im personally not a consiquentialist, or I perfer to try not to think in consiquentialist contexts.
[12:53:25] <Computer_Barf> if you look at things that way, its possible to make arguments in favor of things we all know are terrible
[12:54:02] <CaptHindsight> and start dealing with religion like any other fraud
[12:54:07] <_methods> yeah i really don't think about it that much lol
[12:54:19] <Computer_Barf> humm perhaps i should elaborate
[12:54:28] <Computer_Barf> in kindergarden we learn some basic rules
[12:54:30] <Computer_Barf> don't hit
[12:54:33] <Computer_Barf> don't steal
[12:54:35] <Computer_Barf> don't lie
[12:55:24] <Computer_Barf> but later we learn the exceptions, don't hit unless you have a badge, don't steal unless you work for the irs, don't kill unless you drive a tank for a living.
[12:56:00] <Computer_Barf> so we all carry this kind of moral cognitive dissonance in our society
[12:56:27] <_methods> i don't think that's isolated to this society
[12:56:30] <Computer_Barf> we don't have a deontological consistency, we have a moral framework, with lots of exceptions.
[12:56:48] <_methods> or any society lol
[12:56:56] <Computer_Barf> so we're all kind of schizophrenic in that way.
[12:57:05] <Computer_Barf> yes most societies.
[12:57:31] <Computer_Barf> but ok so think about when we had slaves picking cotton
[12:57:40] <Computer_Barf> people made arguments like, you can't free those people
[12:57:46] <Computer_Barf> they are better off doing what they are doing
[12:58:00] <Computer_Barf> oh they arn't capable of taking care of themselves
[12:58:09] <Computer_Barf> oh they need the structure that we are providing
[12:58:21] <Computer_Barf> oh they would go out of control if we gave them freedom
[12:58:38] <Computer_Barf> all these kind of consequential arguments
[12:58:48] <Computer_Barf> no one argued that if we got rid of slavery
[12:59:04] <Computer_Barf> that suddenly someone would come up with big machines that operate on oil from the ground
[13:01:18] <Computer_Barf> how much to the degree by which we maintain bad paradigms because of consiquentialist arguments do we maintain a world that never discovers progress.
[13:02:01] <Computer_Barf> oh if we didn't have government doing X, then bad things will happen because those people are too free. They are better off and safer under the state as it is. We must protect them for the greater good. These people need to be managed.
[13:04:53] <Computer_Barf> forcing them is fine because we reach a particular outcome, is the essential argument of the state, but the state has no way of predicting these things. We have no idea, we are just trained to believe that things turn out better when they are managed by exclusive groups. Ultimately though, the evils in the hearts of men is just as present in the military, or the police station, or the slavemaster. Granting superpowers does
[13:05:46] <Computer_Barf> end rant
[13:06:48] <Computer_Barf> ok topic change, does anyone here have any experience with the mesa 7176e ?
[13:08:59] <Computer_Barf> I want to use one for my G0704 , and although i want to primarily use it for linux cnc, I want to know if its possible to use it with mach. No im not trolling.
[13:09:24] <Connor1> Computer_Barf: Why would you want to use it with Mach ?
[13:09:39] <Computer_Barf> just to have two options
[13:09:49] <Connor1> and, the answer is, probably not. Don't think they have drivers for it.
[13:10:12] <Computer_Barf> are you aware of anything that would work for both?
[13:10:24] <Connor1> parport
[13:10:47] <Computer_Barf> do any of you guys watch knivemaking tuesdays?
[13:11:16] <Connor> Probably seen one or two videos.. but.. not sure about other people..
[13:19:52] <archivist> Computer_Barf, no sensible screw cutting on mach
[13:20:27] <syyl_> that guy that burns one endmill after another on the tormach?
[13:20:32] <Jymmm> This is pretty good, I've never seen tunnel construction like this, much less "lego blocking" it like that... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LoRIztYmWjY'
[13:21:57] <Computer_Barf> meh his toolbreaking didn't seem all that much more pronounced that many others on youtube.
[13:22:35] <syyl_> i noticed in the google analytics that people love crashs and bocken tools
[13:22:36] <syyl_> ;)
[13:22:57] <pcw_home> threading/tappping may be why Tormach dropped mach and moved to Linuxcnc for their lathe
[13:22:57] <unfy> tunnel vid: neat
[13:22:59] <Jymmm> Arch-Lock™ construction
[13:23:41] <unfy> the lack of mortar is neat too
[13:24:17] <unfy> i know, being an arch it's not really necessary, but still neat
[13:24:49] <unfy> lol @ use of crane as compactor
[13:24:52] <unfy> er, shovel
[13:25:11] <Jymmm> or parking space =)
[13:25:36] <Connor> looks like the dump truck form has a slight bit of a tapper too it..to allow them to "zipper" the tunnel closed.
[13:26:00] <Jymmm> Yeah bunch of rollers on it.
[13:26:37] <Jymmm> Here's without the use of the "roller truck"... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cAE5L07Yil4
[13:30:58] <Computer_Barf> pretty cool, but pretty narrow
[13:31:07] <Computer_Barf> want to see a bigger one
[13:31:21] <Connor> Jymmm: Looks like much easier with the roller truck..
[13:32:22] <Connor> No need for all the extra chains and counter anchor weights.
[13:34:14] <Jymmm> Connor: Yeah, looks that way to me too. I could easily see that being used for underground storage, wine cellar, or even durable living quarters.
[13:34:33] <Computer_Barf> mushroom farm
[13:34:33] <lair82_> Hey guys, I'm on my debian build for my mill, and was wondering, how do you make the toolbar at the bottom of the desktop disappear?
[13:34:46] <Jymmm> Anything below 58" usually maintains a consistante temp year round
[13:34:59] <cradek> lair82_: googling with "xfce" keyword might help
[13:36:36] <Computer_Barf> ive seen people put storage containers into the side of a hill, even in cold weather climate, maintain good temps and grow shitakes inside
[13:37:10] <Jymmm> I could see that in the woods somewhere. This tiny lil shack above ground, then this monster underground tunneling system.
[13:37:56] <Jymmm> What do you think, good for 100 years with zero maintance?
[13:38:52] <jdh> religion should be treated like any other mental illnes
[13:39:34] <malcom2073> jdh: Ignored and generally taken advantage of?
[13:39:47] <Jymmm> I wonder how those tunnels do for rainfall/flooding?
[13:40:07] <jdh> that might be better.
[13:40:28] <Jymmm> jdh: Put to work at the goodwill for 25¢/hour ?
[13:40:37] <Jymmm> ...under federal law
[13:40:40] <jdh> much more useful
[13:41:12] <jdh> anyone that hears god talking to them would be schizophrenic if it were not 'god'
[13:41:43] <Computer_Barf> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N6uVV2Dcqt0
[13:41:57] <malcom2073> jdh: If it makes you feel any better, most people who hear god talking to them are still considered schizophrenic
[13:42:34] <jdh> oh, I thought they were considered TV evangalists
[13:42:54] <malcom2073> No, that's people who hear money talking to them :P
[13:43:41] <Jymmm> Loetmichel: Evod? "Mechs"? I think the terms mechs and "mods" is throwing me a curve.
[13:45:20] <Jymmm> Loetmichel: I saw something on FT that has a 18650 holder plus room for some LCD and controls. no clue.
[13:49:31] <Jymmm> Loetmichel: http://www.fasttech.com/products/1411/10011134/1785701
[13:49:56] <Jymmm> Loetmichel: http://www.fasttech.com/products/1411/10011134/1735400
[13:51:03] <lair82_> Thanks +cradek, looks good now,
[14:02:00] <Loetmichel> Jymmm: the evods are the small cylindrical things with the metal tank
[14:02:32] <Loetmichel> a mod is a modified series E-cig
[14:02:58] <Loetmichel> a mech is a complete selfbuild case for battery/electronics
[14:35:45] <Jymmm> Loetmichel: Are all these interchangable? I think I'm looking more for a tank (fill once a day), rather than drip (fil afer a couple of uses)
[14:37:35] <Jymmm> Loetmichel: And do I really want adjustable wattage?
[14:39:23] <Jymmm> Loetmichel: I really dont wnat a holster full on my belt ike what it seems you've gone to =)
[14:43:32] <Jymmm> Loetmichel: renesis Kinda nice... http://www.fasttech.com/forums/1785701/t/1358260/diy-finished-pictures
[15:02:01] <zeeshan> damn bolts add up quick.
[15:08:54] <CaptHindsight> zeeshan: my die cast parts are all much smoother
[15:09:12] <renesis> archivist: b&k doesnt really have a scalable setup for headphones
[15:09:17] <CaptHindsight> well it is hard to really see tecture in a grainy photo
[15:09:35] <renesis> they have the HATS for $35k, and you need to use their special couplers
[15:10:05] <renesis> gras has a fixture for measuring hearing protection, high isolation, everyone uses it for headphones
[15:10:45] <renesis> and its only like $3k, and it uses the same couplers as KEMAR (the GRAS HATS), and the same mics
[15:10:59] <CaptHindsight> http://img577.imageshack.us/img577/3314/13t60sfbottomcutcloseup.jpg
[15:11:14] <renesis> b&k stuff is maybe better than gras for very high frequency
[15:11:27] <renesis> but honestly everything above $10k is bullshit
[15:11:29] <renesis> er
[15:11:32] <renesis> 10khz
[15:11:58] <zeeshan> CaptHindsight:
[15:11:58] <zeeshan> http://www.stamping-metalparts.com/photo/stamping-metalparts/editor/20140815095726_22883.jpg
[15:12:02] <renesis> theres always something wrong with data above 10k, last octave is useless anyway
[15:12:05] <renesis> anyway bbl
[15:12:06] <zeeshan> depends on the casting mixing
[15:12:51] <zeeshan> http://diecasting.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/08/Lumec_Black.jpg
[15:13:00] <zeeshan> http://www.overseasmg.com/die%20casting%201.jpg
[15:13:49] <CaptHindsight> http://i.ebayimg.com/00/s/MTIwMFgxNjAw/z/fDIAAOxycERRkkX~/$%28KGrHqV,!lsFGBso,edwBRkk%28-utz!~~60_57.JPG
[15:18:39] <CaptHindsight> http://www.engineersedge.com/sand_cast.htm
[15:19:16] <CaptHindsight> web or wall thickness should as a minimum be 0.10" - Aluminum, .13 Magnesium and .13 for Steel
[15:25:54] <unfy> i'll be ingot-izing some cans within a week or two prolly...
[15:26:25] <CaptHindsight> for recycled aluminininium casting?
[15:26:27] <furrywolf> I've never done any casting. I should one of these days.
[15:27:09] <unfy> beercananium, yo. well - sodacananium
[15:27:21] <unfy> i don't drink heh
[15:28:19] <unfy> a year ago i started building an electric shop furnace to melt stuff -- was about 2/3rd's done but had a burglary and moved. has made the project a bit difficult to do
[15:28:21] <furrywolf> wouldn't, say, engine parts, be a much better feed material? they're meant to be cast, and each one weighs about a thousand times more...
[15:28:37] <unfy> furry: sure, but the cans were 'free'
[15:28:48] <CaptHindsight> if you have a way to melt em
[15:29:04] <furrywolf> at least here, cans are worth far more than their weight, due to government money.
[15:29:09] <CaptHindsight> save up your swarf
[15:29:16] <unfy> there's a video of a guy on YT using a propane furnace to melt a whole head. it's impressive looking :D
[15:29:46] <unfy> i think cans go for around 40-50 cents a pound here.
[15:30:04] <furrywolf> that is, if you take the cans to the recycling center, get cash, and take the cash to the scrapyard, you end up with much more weight than you started with.
[15:30:31] <unfy> anyhoo, i've got a fair amount of cans - i wouldn't mind making a small charcoal or propane furnace to turn'em into ingots to save some space etc
[15:31:12] <furrywolf> it's something like $2/lb here for cans
[15:31:26] <unfy> i think cans end up being like 1/2 dross, 1/2 ingot too
[15:31:51] <furrywolf> yep
[15:32:04] <furrywolf> while if you go to the scrapyard and get nice solid pistons, heads, etc...
[15:32:45] <unfy> it'll be some time before i get to that point. would want a nice lathe & mill... perhaps all cnc'd etc too heh
[15:33:00] <unfy> for now, the metal messing aroundness is just 'this is neat'
[15:35:35] <CaptHindsight> http://www.metalprices.com/p/MagnesiumFreeChart
[15:35:40] <anonimas1> pcw_home: I've had a 8i20 die i think
[15:35:42] <furrywolf> here we pay an extra 5 cents/can deposit, which you get back on recycling it, pushing the value up way way way over the metal's value.
[15:36:10] <unfy> no deposit here
[15:36:13] <unfy> (nebraska)
[15:36:15] <anonimas1> !thislog
[15:36:36] <CaptHindsight> http://www.metalprices.com/p/TitaniumFreeChart titanium is <$10/lb
[15:36:39] <unfy> if i had an iowa address, i'd gladly go recycle in IA to get that 5c a can :D
[15:36:40] <furrywolf> that explains the difference, then. :P
[15:37:12] <furrywolf> here you'd never melt down cans, because each can gets you several times its weight in better alloy...
[15:37:20] <unfy> indeed
[15:37:27] <unfy> i totally spaced off the deposit stuff
[15:37:38] <CaptHindsight> I might as well use titanium
[15:37:40] <unfy> and it's like 27 cans to a pound or something
[15:37:54] <unfy> what's titanium's melting temp ?
[15:38:00] <furrywolf> what're you building that needs exotic alloys?
[15:38:17] <CaptHindsight> 3,034°F (1,668°C)
[15:38:37] <CaptHindsight> laptop chassis
[15:39:24] <furrywolf> my laptop is already magnesium... on top, at least.
[15:39:46] <CaptHindsight> http://openlunchbox.com/
[15:39:56] <CaptHindsight> Modular Laptop Project
[15:41:42] <furrywolf> sounds good. I'm lazy and bought a pre-built magnesium laptop.
[15:42:01] <CaptHindsight> what did you get?
[15:42:08] <furrywolf> toughbook
[15:42:51] <CaptHindsight> been thinking about a toughbook style with a better keyboard
[15:43:35] <CaptHindsight> probably get around to it
[15:44:43] <furrywolf> so how much of that website exists as anything other than bits? :P
[15:44:53] <furrywolf> (i.e. any actual hardware?)
[15:45:08] <CaptHindsight> just getting the wish list together
[15:45:47] <furrywolf> so it's still vaporware. :)
[15:46:12] <CaptHindsight> I've been doing this for decades
[15:46:55] <furrywolf> stamping might be a better idea than cast or machined for things like lids
[15:46:57] <CaptHindsight> I'll fire up the CAD after we see what everyone really wants
[15:47:16] <CaptHindsight> if the volume is high enough
[15:48:04] <furrywolf> I want a laptop that's faster than a desktop, lasts >48 hours off a charge with the screen at full brightness, weighs under 3lbs, and costs $500. :P
[15:48:30] <CaptHindsight> but there are always mounting locations for fasteners
[15:48:34] <furrywolf> oh, you mean really wants, AND is really available and affordable... :P
[15:48:35] <malcom2073> furrywolf: Pick tw.... pick one
[15:48:35] <malcom2073> :P
[15:48:51] <CaptHindsight> Apple machines their enclosures
[15:48:55] <furrywolf> oh, and like my toughbook, I want to be able to hose it down when it gets dirty.
[15:49:48] <CaptHindsight> the problem with laptops has always been the high cost of NRE for tooling
[15:50:13] <CaptHindsight> without tooling that changes everything
[15:50:40] <CaptHindsight> we can SLA plastic enclosures
[15:51:36] <CaptHindsight> 3d print molds for casting
[15:51:51] <CaptHindsight> or CNC the enclosures
[15:52:00] <furrywolf> the quality of the average home 3d printer is still crap.
[15:52:05] <CaptHindsight> or a combination
[15:52:10] <CaptHindsight> sure
[15:52:22] <malcom2073> I've been meaning to try and see if I can mill a printed part with thick enough walls
[15:52:25] <CaptHindsight> but that's not what I use
[15:52:31] <malcom2073> Print, then mill to spec
[15:52:53] <CaptHindsight> with SLA you don't have to secondary machine
[15:53:39] <furrywolf> SLA? StereoLighographyA....? SelectiveLaserA....?
[15:53:42] <malcom2073> Maybe so, but I'll never be able to afford the kind of machine that can produce thigns that don't require secondary machining :P
[15:53:48] <furrywolf> lithography
[15:54:28] * furrywolf knows SL and SLS, but no SLA...
[15:55:08] <CaptHindsight> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c2eOfChFKRg nig SLA, just not a fast one
[15:55:19] <CaptHindsight> nig/big
[15:55:46] <CaptHindsight> yes stereolithography
[15:56:00] <furrywolf> what's the A? stereolithography is SL...
[15:56:12] <malcom2073> aphy
[15:56:31] <furrywolf> oh. you just abbreviate it differently than everyone else. :)
[15:56:33] <CaptHindsight> DMLS (direct metal laser sintering) and secondary machining is another option
[15:56:48] <malcom2073> Again, not a machine I'll likely be able to afford
[15:57:02] <CaptHindsight> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stereolithography
[15:57:04] <malcom2073> Speakign of machines I can't afford... I'm tempted by this, it's nearby: http://www.ebay.com/itm/Bridgeport-Series-1-Boss-6-9-CNC-R2E4-Milling-Machine-/291334671916
[15:57:12] <CaptHindsight> SLA or SL
[15:58:07] <CaptHindsight> malcom2073: if the price doesn't quadruple in the next few hours
[15:58:30] <malcom2073> CaptHindsight: True, but it's in the middle of nowheresville-PA, so it'll cost anyone not nearby dearly to have it transported
[15:58:49] <malcom2073> I've seen that sort of thing go for less at auctions around here
[15:58:54] <malcom2073> Haven't had the space until recently for it
[15:59:33] <CaptHindsight> http://www.ebay.com/itm/Bridgeport-Series-I-R2E3-CNC-Mill-/121408779482 what they usually sell for
[15:59:57] <furrywolf> $910 seems quite affordable, but as a warning, auctions tend to go up steeply in value the last 15 seconds.
[16:00:02] <malcom2073> I know
[16:00:03] <CaptHindsight> http://www.ebay.com/itm/BRIDGEPORT-SERIES-II-R2E4-AS-IS-/261717086270 BRIDGEPORT SERIES II R2E4 AS IS $5k
[16:00:28] <malcom2073> But a working machine vs a non working machine makes a difference too
[16:00:44] <furrywolf> people like me who don't like the whole repeatedly raising your bid fifty cents over the last guy's bid thing just bid once at the end for what we'd be willing to pay, and that's it.
[16:01:09] <roycroft> yeah, i don't play the bidding game
[16:01:19] <malcom2073> Me neither, I pipe up at the end usually
[16:01:29] <roycroft> i only bid once
[16:01:34] <roycroft> i submit my maximum bid
[16:01:49] <roycroft> ebay won't bump it more than the next amount unless you get outbid
[16:01:55] <furrywolf> I won an item the other day that had something like sixty bids... and four bidders.
[16:02:03] <roycroft> that's just a waste of time
[16:02:09] <roycroft> and a sign of novice bidders
[16:02:18] <Jymmm> lol
[16:02:22] <CaptHindsight> I tend to bid low and then if I really want it bid again in the last hour or so if it hasn't gone up much
[16:02:32] <roycroft> if an item is at $20 and you bid $50 it will only go up to $21 or whatever the next increment is
[16:02:39] <roycroft> so it doesn't matter what you bid
[16:02:41] <CaptHindsight> but yeah, some people treat it like Vegas
[16:03:14] <roycroft> the only time i play a bidding game is if i am trying to get something for a steal and i can be around in the last few minutes
[16:03:22] <roycroft> then i will sometimes do a snipe bid
[16:03:28] <roycroft> but still i will only bid one time
[16:03:32] <furrywolf> why would you want to be around? just install sniping software. :)
[16:03:41] <roycroft> because i don't do it that often
[16:03:47] <roycroft> and i can't be bothered to install sniping software
[16:04:11] <roycroft> if i did it on a regular basis i would probably install sniping software
[16:04:20] <CaptHindsight> ever watch an auction with multiple snipers?
[16:04:25] <roycroft> but i tend to by stuff that other people aren't very interested in
[16:04:35] <CaptHindsight> not sure how much a fast internet connection helps
[16:04:36] <roycroft> so winning bids is not usually much of a problem for me
[16:04:45] <furrywolf> jbidwatcher works reasonably well, if you only consider its functioning rather than the functioning of the vm that runs it...
[16:04:52] <cradek> sure, whoever snipes the highest wins
[16:05:02] <cradek> nobody has time to see her bid and decide to bid again based on it
[16:05:09] <furrywolf> if everyone uses a sniping program, it just turns into a silent auction.
[16:05:19] <cradek> yep
[16:05:27] <CaptHindsight> cradek: does it just quickly increment the bids by $1 or?
[16:05:34] <furrywolf> everyone enters a number, then when it's all over, you get told who had the highest number.
[16:06:05] <cradek> CaptHindsight: ebay uses proxy bidding
[16:06:10] <CaptHindsight> I've looked at some bid histories and there might be 50 bids in the last few seconds
[16:06:23] * furrywolf is glad to see someone use "her" instead of "him" to refer to an unspecified person
[16:06:24] <roycroft> what happens when 18 people bid the exact same amount at the exact same time, a split second before the auction ends?
[16:06:27] <cradek> if you're an ebay user you oughta read how it works
[16:06:35] <CaptHindsight> not sure if the history actually means anything
[16:06:48] <cradek> roycroft: the earliest bid wins in that case
[16:06:57] <cradek> roycroft: there's no such thing as exact same time
[16:06:59] <roycroft> i said the exact same time
[16:07:00] <roycroft> sure there is
[16:07:16] <cradek> nope
[16:07:20] <roycroft> it's probably rare that multiple bids come in at the exact same time, but it can happen
[16:07:48] <roycroft> ebay may not register them at the exact same time
[16:07:58] <furrywolf> ok... if at the EXACT SAME time, there's a collision on the ethernet cable into the server processing that auction, and they both back off for a random retry. whomever wins comes down to the details of their 10gigE ethernet nics. happy? :P
[16:08:01] <cradek> computers do one thing at a time
[16:08:03] <roycroft> in which case i suppose the winner is essentially chosen at random
[16:08:46] <CaptHindsight> how about the sellers that reserve the right to end bidding at any time since the product is also available locally
[16:08:49] <toastydeath> general relavitiy precludes event simultaneity
[16:08:50] <roycroft> it's not completely true that computers only do one thing at a time
[16:08:54] <CaptHindsight> isn't that against the TOS
[16:09:02] <furrywolf> no, that's allowed.
[16:09:05] <cradek> CaptHindsight: I'm not sure
[16:09:12] <roycroft> multi-threaded processors and multi-processor computers can do multiple things at the same time
[16:09:15] <t12_> LOL
[16:09:17] <t12_> PEDANTICS
[16:09:18] <t12_> er
[16:09:19] <t12_> sorry caps
[16:09:20] <furrywolf> if it sells locally, the seller has an option to terminate the listing with the reason "item is no longer available for sale".
[16:09:24] <t12_> how about this
[16:09:26] <cradek> furrywolf: I've found that women are people too
[16:09:28] <t12_> if two bids come in at the same time
[16:09:32] <t12_> they flip a coin and choose randomly
[16:09:33] <mrsun> there .. bought Vectric Aspire ... loads of moneh! =)
[16:09:37] <t12_> how can you tell the dif
[16:09:52] <furrywolf> if you do it repeatedly and make it look like you're cancelling auctions you don't think will meet some hidden reserve price in your head, then ebay kills your account.
[16:10:13] <roycroft> i don't think you can cancel an auction after it ends
[16:10:15] <cradek> furrywolf: that would be a silly thing to do, since winning bids usually come at the end
[16:10:20] <toastydeath> it would probably come down to which order the network interrupts were processed in
[16:10:26] <CaptHindsight> I stopped posting anything like a car on ebay
[16:10:30] <cradek> furrywolf: (but people sure are silly sometimes)
[16:10:40] <CaptHindsight> too much trouble with non paying winners
[16:11:10] <furrywolf> toasty: ethernet has a collision resolution system. even if they're at the exact same time all the way down to the final network segment, it still gets resolved by networking standards. :)
[16:11:24] <toastydeath> furrywolf, if you have two different people coming in on two different cards
[16:11:29] <toastydeath> is what i was referring to
[16:11:36] <furrywolf> cradek: sadly, that (women being people) is not universally agreed upon.
[16:11:38] <toastydeath> i understand that ethernet is a bus network and deals with collisions
[16:11:58] <cradek> furrywolf: yeah you're not the only one who has noticed that
[16:12:01] <roycroft> i already suggested that it would eventually come down to a random decision on who won
[16:12:13] <CaptHindsight> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S6OZXdRoogY 3D printing sand cast molds
[16:12:19] <furrywolf> could also be their select() process will handle the lower FD first, or something else like that.
[16:13:49] <furrywolf> or, ebay being ebay, there may well be some secret logic that fudges it based on some metric they won't tell you about, like their search results, email filters,...
[16:14:56] <furrywolf> the other day I got so fed up with ebay's email filters, I made a quick image with the text in it and simply sent a link to it.
[16:16:29] <furrywolf> their anti-email-address filter has gotten so annoying that even things like (me)#(AhhhT)@!(foobar)%(D0t)&(com) get removed...
[16:17:20] <furrywolf> got it worked out with my image, and I got the item I wanted! got an air locker for the front axle of my jeep. :)
[16:17:26] <CaptHindsight> heh, how about (blah) (blah) where the mail is always hot?
[16:18:02] <furrywolf> ... do people really use hotmail? :P
[16:18:11] <CaptHindsight> I've seen that done
[16:19:06] <CaptHindsight> where the mail is G etc etc
[16:19:26] <furrywolf> lol
[16:20:12] <malcom2073> I have a hotmail address heh
[16:20:19] <malcom2073> I keep that as my spam email
[16:20:22] <Deejay> gn8
[16:20:41] <tjb1> thats funny furrywolf
[16:20:41] <unfy> i'm a scrub. what's with the 'sand' in the 3d printing ?
[16:20:56] <tjb1> I get spam mail any time I buy something from china because paypal freely shares my personal email
[16:20:57] <malcom2073> What's a scrub?
[16:21:03] <unfy> noob
[16:22:11] <Jymmm> malcom2073: it's a loofa thing ;)
[16:22:31] <malcom2073> unfy: it's injecting glue into the powder, like an injet printer
[16:22:48] <unfy> neat
[16:22:55] <malcom2073> Hmm
[16:23:08] <malcom2073> Jymmm: loofa? Isn't that what the womenfolk use to wash their backs?
[16:23:21] <malcom2073> https://changeonesmind.files.wordpress.com/2008/10/loofa.jpg
[16:24:12] <furrywolf> it's something to SCRUB one's back...
[16:24:21] <malcom2073> ahhh
[16:24:26] <malcom2073> That makes sense... yet makes no sense :-P
[16:27:14] <CaptHindsight> yes an inkjet is used to print a binder (glue) into the sand
[16:29:09] <unfy> there is varying etymology for 'scrub', but generally just another word for 'noob', 'greenback', etc
[16:29:34] <unfy> should have a tone of 'thinks higher of himself than he really is' or something.
[16:30:40] <furrywolf> damnit. it's pouring rain. I was hoping to work on the mill today.
[16:30:59] <furrywolf> it's also %$#@ing cold, making me wonder why it's liquid...
[16:31:10] <CaptHindsight> I need more space for a foundry. I have too many things that burn well
[16:33:23] <unfy> LOL
[16:34:00] <CaptHindsight> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f4lY2gOnEPQ cnc phone case mill
[16:34:24] <CaptHindsight> 24 spindles
[16:34:43] <malcom2073> Lol wow
[16:35:22] <CaptHindsight> We can transfer this patented technology to any company with good condition. heh
[16:35:42] <CaptHindsight> patent on what? multiple spindles?
[16:35:53] <malcom2073> Lol apparently
[16:38:57] <furrywolf> anyone have a locker for a 23 spline dana 70 they want to sell? :P
[16:39:04] <CaptHindsight> "I hope this movies to be delevered Top CEO of mobile phone maker or motor component maker such as Foxcon , Catcher , BYD. etc " well they would just copy it
[16:40:27] <furrywolf> I guess I need to find an inside plan for today.
[16:40:45] <malcom2073> Is your mill outside?
[16:41:03] <_methods> windmill
[16:41:11] <unfy> heh
[16:41:17] <malcom2073> grainmill?
[16:41:24] <_methods> hehe
[16:41:50] <furrywolf> it's in a storage unit on a rolling cart, because there's no room to do anything inside.
[16:42:07] <malcom2073> Ahh yeah
[16:42:56] <_methods> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_OnF6_V28DM
[16:43:06] <_methods> nice welding table
[16:43:14] <_methods> i need to go steal a bowling ball now
[16:43:35] <unfy> that's interesting
[16:43:42] <furrywolf> you know you can buy bowling balls, right? :P
[16:43:48] <malcom2073> lol
[16:44:56] <_methods> it doesn't mean as much if you don't steal it fair and square from the bowling alley
[16:45:55] <furrywolf> you seem them free or close to it at yardsales, craigslist, etc.
[16:46:09] <furrywolf> see
[16:47:56] <CaptHindsight> I usually look for welding tables on craigslist
[16:48:10] <CaptHindsight> maybe I'm just in the lucky area
[16:48:11] <furrywolf> meh. I need more money. I want to get myself at least one new toy for christmas.
[16:49:03] <_methods> hahah the pope is going to push for action on climate change
[16:49:17] <malcom2073> *insert ask god joke here*
[16:49:18] <_methods> because the church has such a great track record on scientific topics
[16:49:56] <CaptHindsight> didn't they eventually cave in on the Copernicus thing?
[16:50:06] <_methods> i'm pretty sure those are the guys that say the earth is 5000 years old
[16:50:22] <_methods> or is that republicans
[16:50:32] <_methods> i always get them mixed up lol
[16:50:36] <furrywolf> church people think I'm not allowed to have any of the toys I want. they suck. :P
[16:50:48] <CaptHindsight> how do you tell the difference?
[16:51:02] <roycroft> it's the fundies who think the earth is 6000 years old
[16:51:06] <_methods> i hold them under water
[16:51:11] <_methods> if they float their republicans
[16:51:16] <_methods> or is it church?
[16:51:16] <roycroft> the church of rome is a little more enlightened than that (not much more)
[16:51:21] <_methods> i always mix that part up
[16:51:25] <roycroft> the fundies are a subset of republicans
[16:51:30] <_methods> s/their/they're
[16:51:52] <_methods> or was that witches
[16:51:57] <_methods> damn i'm so confused now
[16:52:06] <CaptHindsight> how do you tell the difference?
[16:52:08] <CaptHindsight> lol
[16:52:14] <_methods> hold them under water
[16:52:17] <malcom2073> It's ok _methods, not everyone is cut out to be prejusticed :P
[16:52:20] <roycroft> just remember
[16:52:22] <_methods> hahah
[16:52:26] <furrywolf> we need to convince religious people that if they kill themselves, they'll go to heaven faster.
[16:52:28] <roycroft> if you put a fundie in water and it floats, it's a witch
[16:52:37] <_methods> burn the witch
[16:52:53] <_methods> i remember that part
[16:53:28] <CaptHindsight> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zrzMhU_4m-g She's a witch!
[16:54:08] <_methods> exactly
[16:54:11] <_methods> it's a duck
[16:56:07] <_methods> http://imgur.com/SUFs0Ky
[16:56:11] <_methods> cool bathroom sinks
[16:56:55] <furrywolf> lol
[16:57:58] <furrywolf> finally, a link I don't ignore because it's youtube.
[17:03:34] <furrywolf> I want the mail to come in the morning instead of at 5pm... my new transformer should be here today.
[17:12:55] <CaptHindsight> http://phys.org/news/2014-12-biological-war-violent-conflict-wives.html yes, actually on phys.org
[17:23:01] <furrywolf> I guess I'll get out the soldering iron and make stepper driver power leads... red/black zip cord with a 1000uf 100v cap and 75v zener a few inches from the end. heh.
[17:56:01] <Jymmm> If you guys need a respirator for solvents and even bleach, this works great http://www.harborfreight.com/p95-maintenance-free-dual-cartridge-respirator-large-67727-7694.html
[17:56:38] <Jymmm> I"m real sensitive to bleach (chlorine), and didn't smell ANY at all
[17:57:53] <Jymmm> even comes in a reclosable zipbag
[17:58:21] <malcom2073> i should get the wife that so I can start wearing white tshirts again.
[17:58:24] <malcom2073> She hates bleach
[17:58:39] <Jymmm> malcom2073: there is a MEDIUM one too
[17:58:48] <malcom2073> Heh
[17:59:07] <Jymmm> large fit my big fat head easily
[17:59:24] <malcom2073> There's a harbor freight store near me
[17:59:25] <malcom2073> dangerous place that is
[17:59:54] <Jymmm> Get the 20% off coupon then it's only $14 with tax
[18:00:04] <malcom2073> heh
[18:00:07] <Jymmm> $13 something
[18:00:17] <Jymmm> ...including tax
[18:00:28] <Jymmm> and a free tarp!!!
[18:00:31] <malcom2073> 20% off hmm.... I need a 800lb capable cart.
[18:00:44] <Jymmm> hydralic?
[18:00:47] <Jymmm> lift
[18:01:01] <malcom2073> Nah, something to set my generator on and move it around, it's 400lbs, and my yard is bumpy
[18:01:34] <Jymmm> you'll need to make one
[18:01:37] <malcom2073> Oh man, thekir steel mesh deck wagon is on sale too! Nice!
[18:01:50] <malcom2073> Don't think one of those wagons will do it? http://www.harborfreight.com/steel-mesh-deck-wagon-38137.html
[18:01:52] <Jymmm> it wont do 400 lbs
[18:02:10] <malcom2073> They *that* much overrated?
[18:02:43] <Jymmm> I have one (not HF) with fold up sides. It's nice, but it's rought to steer with just 100 lbs
[18:02:54] <malcom2073> I'd use the lawn tractor to move it for sure heh
[18:03:01] <malcom2073> no way I'm lugging 400lbs up a small slope
[18:03:21] <malcom2073> jsut need some way to get it from garage, to backyard where the hookup is if power goesout
[18:03:37] <Jymmm> malcom2073: read the worse review
[18:03:52] <malcom2073> Heh wow
[18:04:39] <Jymmm> you're better off making one
[18:05:02] <malcom2073> Even the good review, "Can't say I've ever put 400 pounds on it; 360 lbs. worth of sandbags clearly made it bend at the axles so I took a few off and it was O"
[18:05:27] <Jymmm> malcom2073: wtf you doing with a 400 lb gen that you cant evne use unless you move it?
[18:05:46] <Jymmm> malcom2073: That's just DUMB =)
[18:06:21] <malcom2073> Jymmm: It's a project :P
[18:06:28] <malcom2073> I can use it, right now it's plopped down by the rear door, and I can drag it outside, but it really shoudl be stored in the garage, and be further away from the house when I run it
[18:06:41] <malcom2073> Both of which would require moving it over grass, which there's no way I'm dragging it
[18:07:10] <malcom2073> It came with a very small cart, but not really off-road worthy
[18:11:12] <Jymmm> malcom2073: so it's loud as hel is what you're saying =)
[18:11:15] <Jymmm> hell*
[18:14:22] <Jymmm> malcom2073: Here ya go... http://www.harborfreight.com/870-lb-capacity-40-inch-x-49-inch-heavy-duty-utility-trailer-with-8-inch-wheels-and-tires-42708.html
[18:16:05] <Jymmm> malcom2073: You can even build in a dog house and places to store fuel, oil, tools, etc
[18:16:29] <Jymmm> cables
[18:17:03] <malcom2073> Whew heh
[18:17:07] <malcom2073> Get what you pay for and all eh?
[18:18:04] <Jymmm> I just find that when I use my gen, I then have to grab everything else out too. if it's all in one spot, make s it easier to use and water proof too
[18:18:35] <Jymmm> but mine is only 40 lbs =)
[18:18:38] <malcom2073> heh
[18:18:39] <furrywolf> grrrr. ups dropped off my new (to me) ebay laptop. the backlight whistles and is only half brightnes, and there's no sign of wireless in lspci/etc.
[18:19:06] <Jymmm> furrywolf: make/model?
[18:19:50] <furrywolf> toughbook cf-52ekmbdam
[18:20:04] <malcom2073> Jymmm: So if I wanted to build my own, any thoughts on where to get semi-cheap axles? Assuming I have a reliable source of 1" steel square tube heh
[18:20:34] <furrywolf> and, of course, when it comes to batteries, "untested" is a code word for "lasts five minutes".
[18:20:43] <malcom2073> "as is" heh
[18:20:59] <Jymmm> malcom2073: think you could buld one for under $200?
[18:21:01] <furrywolf> it's supposed to have intel wifi... it's enabled in the bios... but the switch on the front does nothing, and it doesn't show up in lspci.
[18:21:21] <malcom2073> Jymmm: If the steel is free, and my dad is retired, so welding labor is free too.... :P Depends on the cost of the axles
[18:21:45] <Jymmm> malcom2073: start with looking at tire, and go from there.
[18:21:49] <Jymmm> tires
[18:22:08] <Jymmm> malcom2073: then you'll have an idea on what diameter axles
[18:24:27] <Jymmm> furrywolf: This place sells LCD panels, I'd look for inverters there http://www.sunvalleytek.com/
[18:25:32] <malcom2073> heh
[18:26:02] <Jymmm> furrywolf: Specs http://shop.panasonic.com/shop/model/CF-52EKMBDAM?t=specs
[18:26:03] <furrywolf> got my new transformer too... it's amazing how small it is, and how much it weighs. heh.
[18:26:26] <Jymmm> Optional integrated Gobi™ 3G mobile broadband (WWAN)Intel® Wireless WiFi Link 5100 802.11a/b/g/draft-nBluetooth® v2.0+EDR (Class 1) -- option on models with P8400 CPU
[18:26:41] <furrywolf> yes, I know what its specs are. I know it's supposed to have wireless, which seems to only half exist...
[18:27:34] <furrywolf> it has the wireless switch on front, confirming what the model number says...
[18:30:03] <Jymmm> Nah, the switch is there just to mess with your head =)
[18:30:37] <furrywolf> bah! pulled the bottom cover off... all the option boards are missing.
[18:30:43] <furrywolf> there's dangling antenna and switch wires.
[18:31:24] <Jymmm> that bites. if the auction says wifi, it should have wifi, period.
[18:32:23] <Jymmm> what auction/seller?
[18:33:46] <furrywolf> http://www.ebay.com/itm/Lot-of-2-Panasonic-Toughbook-CF-52-15-4-034-Core2Duo-2-4GHz-2-26GHz-2GB-120GB-212-/181608305751
[18:33:55] <furrywolf> checking the wifi cover on the other one now
[18:34:50] <furrywolf> ... wtf. the other one has the world's smallest inverse security torx screw.
[18:36:11] * furrywolf boots it instead
[18:36:24] <furrywolf> this one the light comes on. that is a very good sign.
[18:36:34] <Jymmm> as in steel toe or as in LiveCD ?
[18:36:54] <Jymmm> they included a PS ?
[18:36:56] <furrywolf> as in the linuxcnc install iso, which has a live mode, because that's the only livecd I have handy. heh.
[18:37:21] <furrywolf> no. I ordered a pair of power supplies after winning the auction. they got here first, being shipped usps instead of ups.
[18:37:22] <Jymmm> Eh, steel toe boot is still an option =)
[18:37:32] <Jymmm> ah gotcha
[18:37:36] <furrywolf> it's a toughbook. that'll hurt. :P
[18:37:43] <furrywolf> it's magnesium, not plastic...
[18:38:08] <furrywolf> yeah, the other one has working wifi.
[18:38:12] <furrywolf> and backlight
[18:38:49] <furrywolf> but it's the one with the wxga display... I want to use the one with the wuxga 1900x1200!
[18:39:14] <Jymmm> swap em
[18:39:25] <furrywolf> I doubt they share the same inverter....
[18:40:05] <furrywolf> hrmm, it's not an inverse torx. it's a regular torx that someone sheared off a bit in, that's been bashed on things and smoothed.
[18:40:17] <furrywolf> probably someone TRIED to take the wifi card...
[18:40:51] <Jymmm> lol, only reason you have one probably
[18:41:19] <furrywolf> I guess I'll just use the one with the low-res display for now.
[18:41:20] <Jymmm> epoxy and old screwdriver to it, let it set, then remove
[18:41:35] <furrywolf> I need a replacement for this laptop, as it keeps crashing, which is most annoying...
[18:42:25] <furrywolf> hrmm. maybe wifi works. maybe not. it associated with my ap, but won't transfer anything.
[18:42:35] <Jymmm> wantthe service manual?
[18:42:59] <furrywolf> on/offing the wifi switch made it work
[18:43:04] <furrywolf> or off/onning, that is
[18:43:58] <Jymmm> or I should say the service and disassembly manual?
[18:44:01] <furrywolf> oh, and if anyone needs to know, these utterly fail the latency test.
[18:44:20] <furrywolf> ... remove screws until desired component is reached, assembley is the reverse of disassembly? :)
[18:44:57] <Jymmm> including missing component part numbers
[18:45:17] <XXCoder1> heys
[18:45:29] <zeeshan> hi nanga parbat
[18:48:32] <Jymmm> furrywolf: http://tim.id.au/laptops/panasonic/CF-52EKMxDxM.pdf
[18:48:47] <Jymmm> furrywolf: 30MB PDF
[18:49:15] <furrywolf> I probably can't download that now... I'll grab it on my webserver so I can download it later.
[18:49:38] <furrywolf> download finished at 3.8s. I sure wish my home connection was like that!
[18:50:52] <Jymmm> furrywolf: Inverter PN = N0GF1J000011
[18:51:20] <Jymmm> N5HZC0000038 = WIRELESS LAN MODULE
[18:52:00] <Jymmm> furrywolf: pdf page 72
[18:52:35] <Jymmm> $26?! http://www.pchub.com/uph/laptop/43-70212-19594/Tamura-HBL-0357-LCD-Inverter.html
[18:53:02] <furrywolf> is that price odd for some reason?
[18:53:26] <Jymmm> Just seem shigh for alightbulb to me =)
[18:53:39] <Jymmm> err, HALF a lightbulb =)
[18:55:16] <CaptHindsight> http://www.ebay.ca/itm/12-9-2560x1700-LED-Screen-for-GOOGLE-CHROMEBOOK-PIXEL-LCD-/310704041188 fit one of these in
[18:55:44] <furrywolf> other than the brightness issue, the screen is nice... 1900x1200 has very tiny pixels.
[18:56:19] <CaptHindsight> add some LED's
[18:56:32] <Jymmm> add CFL =)
[18:58:18] <furrywolf> I'll probably just use the low-res one for now... keep an eye out for another wuxga one.
[18:58:29] <furrywolf> I can list this one on ebay as "untested", right? :P
[18:58:30] <Jymmm> furrywolf: OH OH OH add HPS/MA light =)
[18:58:48] <Jymmm> MH*
[18:58:52] * furrywolf is pretty sure "untested" means "known to be broken"
[18:59:59] <furrywolf> I should test my new transformer, but since it looks and smells good, I figure it's probably good. there's a lot less to go wrong with a torroidal transformer than a laptop.
[19:00:38] <furrywolf> it has two 40vac secondaries. should I parallel them, then one fuse, then rectify, or separately fuse and rectify?
[19:00:46] <Jymmm> furrywolf: since THEY link to an article about wifi, I'd call em on it.
[19:01:33] <furrywolf> by my rough math, 40vac 635va should give me about 54v 15a, a good number for my mill.
[19:01:38] <furrywolf> 625
[19:05:10] <furrywolf> the transformer is exactly the same thickness as the 37,000uf cap I'm going to use to filter it... going to make a nice compact assembley when done.
[19:34:50] <furrywolf> there's definitely something wrong with the wifi in the other one... it's back to associating and reporting a good signal, but not transferring any data.
[19:35:44] <Tom_itx> put a nickle in the slot
[19:37:40] <zeeshan> furrywolf: toriod?
[19:37:46] <XXCoder1> fur any excryption on wifi?
[19:38:48] <furrywolf> yes
[19:39:05] <XXCoder1> theres rare case where excryption dont work
[19:39:24] <XXCoder1> try test alternate router with no excryption with that wifi card see if works
[19:40:17] <furrywolf> it's working, just on and off, and painfully slow...
[19:41:36] <XXCoder1> ok
[19:41:38] <furrywolf> bbl, time for work
[19:41:50] <_methods> i've always had the worst luck with linux and wifi
[19:41:55] <_methods> not as bad as bsd and wifi
[19:42:35] <furrywolf> I've had good luck.
[19:42:39] <furrywolf> bbl
[19:42:48] <_methods> until now?
[19:42:49] <_methods> lol
[19:43:29] <furrywolf> I think it's hardware. someone wanted the card out bad enough to break a torx bit off in the screws...
[19:43:38] <furrywolf> zeeshan: http://i.ebayimg.com/00/s/MTA2NlgxNjAw/z/O80AAOSwQJhUj2mn/$_57.JPG
[19:44:12] <furrywolf> bbl
[20:12:57] <The_Ball> Morning
[20:13:36] <The_Ball> In 2011 Andy Pugh wrote "Alternatively, the development version of EMC2 will add the ability to call a G-code subroutine as a toolchange. " does anyone know if this happened, and how to set it up?
[20:16:02] <_methods> call a sub?
[20:16:39] <skunkworks_> gcode remapping I bet
[20:16:54] <The_Ball> skunkworks_, I think you're right
[20:20:33] <The_Ball> skunkworks_, trying to do some gang tooling in lathe mode on a mill
[20:28:51] <The_Ball> oh nice, gmoccapy has a "edit loaded gcode" button! my main missing feature in axis
[20:36:38] <jdh> like, File/Edit in axis?
[21:07:20] <The_Ball> jdh, oh no, you're joking
[21:09:54] <malcom2073> He isn't
[21:10:04] <malcom2073> However, it edits the file itself, not just the loaded gcode
[21:10:08] <malcom2073> and then reloads
[21:12:29] <The_Ball> malcom2073, yeah I meant "your joking, how could I have not noticed all these years"
[21:12:37] <malcom2073> heh
[21:13:29] <XXCoder1> ' e
[21:23:35] <furrywolf> from what I can tell, the wireless adapter can't transmit.... tx excessive retries just shoots up.
[21:23:52] <XXCoder1> broken attenta?
[21:24:19] <furrywolf> dunno. I guess I need to figure out how to extract the screw in the cover with the broken off torx bit...
[21:25:24] <XXCoder1> screw extractor?
[21:25:54] <furrywolf> it's TINY. like a T2 or something...
[21:27:20] <furrywolf> how are torx measured? according to my calipers, it's 1.95mm across the points. lol
[21:27:24] <XXCoder1> yeah extractor goes all way down to zero
[21:27:50] <XXCoder1> just use it like drill then go backward it will "jam" and rotate torx out
[21:29:02] <furrywolf> I don't have any screw extractors small enough. to use a screw extractor, I first have to remove the bit that's broken off in the head, because I'd need a micro carbide bit to try drilling a broken driver bit...
[21:29:11] <furrywolf> two reasons that's a bad plan. :)
[21:29:59] <XXCoder1> other way is to drill tiny hole in it then use small screw, but that small it's hard.
[21:30:07] <XXCoder1> well you can always use pliers
[21:30:22] <furrywolf> it's in a recess.
[21:30:30] <XXCoder1> oh thats fun
[21:30:34] <furrywolf> yes, it is.
[21:30:56] <furrywolf> and, as I said, drilling through it requires either removing the broken bit or drilling the broken bit...
[21:31:33] <XXCoder1> you can drill it out but hard to extract leftover after you remove card
[21:32:43] <fenugrec> dentist sized carbide burr on a high speed tool
[21:32:46] <fenugrec> + patience
[21:33:06] <furrywolf> oh, AND it's security torx.
[21:33:22] <XXCoder1> uhhh
[21:33:38] <XXCoder1> so you has to make sure it stays in pressure outwards to come off
[21:33:58] <furrywolf> no, so it has an annoying post in the middle that makes sure your drill bit doesn't center, ever.
[21:34:30] <XXCoder1> oh that other kind
[21:34:40] <XXCoder1> theres security torxs you can buy
[21:34:50] <XXCoder1> but other option is to remove it
[21:35:10] <XXCoder1> dermel and point grinder
[21:35:29] <XXCoder1> you'd have to be careful not to ruin torx shape
[21:36:07] <furrywolf> pliers failed to remove broken bit, just mushed it worse.
[21:38:14] <furrywolf> broken bit removed by cracking with screwdriver then pulling pieces out
[21:39:30] * furrywolf looks up how torx are measured
[21:43:07] <furrywolf> except my internet connection is sucking too badly to load normal webpages, so no looking anything up.
[21:44:39] <XXCoder1> too bad really
[21:44:42] <XXCoder1> what isp you using
[21:45:39] <furrywolf> heh, seems there's not a direct correlation between dimensions and T#.... to quote a forum post: "I have no idea why Torx are numbered the way they are...
[21:45:41] <furrywolf> I always figured that it had something to do with engineers, a drunken holiday party, rabid weasels, a Mexican stripper and her burro, and 1100 pounds of whipped cream in a inflatable pool..."
[21:46:17] <furrywolf> virgin mobile
[21:50:33] <renesis> i thought it had to do with the dimensions
[21:50:49] <furrywolf> smallest bit I can find is a T8, and it's not even close.
[21:51:01] <furrywolf> I had a T4 a long time ago that I got for another project, but I haven't seen it in many years.
[21:51:13] <furrywolf> might just slit it and call it a slotted...
[21:51:20] <XXCoder1> sears tend to have very small torxs
[21:51:24] <XXCoder1> I have torx 1,2,3
[21:51:33] <renesis> get bit sets?
[21:51:44] <renesis> wtf @ torx 1
[21:51:46] <furrywolf> apparantly it's in there tighter than the proper bit can get out. :P
[21:52:09] <furrywolf> renesis: I have bit sets. I have torx (and torx plus!) through T60.
[21:52:26] <renesis> wtf @ t60
[21:52:31] <furrywolf> I generally works on cars, not watches. :P
[21:52:32] <renesis> dont you guys have torx in the middle
[21:52:47] <renesis> whats torx plus?
[21:52:50] <renesis> center dot?
[21:52:52] <XXCoder1> t60! ;)
[21:53:21] <furrywolf> torx plus is "our patent expired so we changed the shape just enough that "star" bits won't fit it so we could keep collecting licensing fees".
[21:53:37] <XXCoder1> that would be t8.3209871e+81 btw. Probably for torx bolts larger than earth.
[21:53:51] <furrywolf> center dot is security torx
[21:54:01] <renesis> right i thought plus might be its actual name
[21:54:20] <furrywolf> no, torx plus is just an evil thing to make money, not something useful. heh.
[21:54:24] <renesis> i think all my torx bits have the dots
[21:54:41] <renesis> it just has smaller inside radius on the screw head?
[21:55:17] <Connor> What about the stupid security screws on iPhones?
[21:55:17] <furrywolf> http://pemcdn.penn-eng.com/design_info/torx_vs_torxplus.jpg
[21:55:27] <renesis> 5 points/
[21:55:28] <renesis> ?
[21:55:34] <renesis> apple are assholes
[21:55:35] <Tom_itx> Connor security torx?
[21:55:40] <renesis> no
[21:55:47] <renesis> apple uses 5 point stars
[21:55:49] <Tom_itx> odd count points?
[21:56:03] <Tom_itx> so a 3point bit will open them
[21:56:34] <renesis> http://guide-images.ifixit.net/igi/eQeNqVWBXWWSPPKU.medium
[21:56:38] <renesis> pentalobe
[21:57:00] <furrywolf> according to a forum post, the laptop has a T7.
[21:57:05] <Connor> Yup. I've had to tear into my iPhone 4S twice now... what a pita
[21:58:27] * furrywolf has no plans to ever buy an apple product
[21:58:33] <renesis> srsly
[21:58:57] <Tom_itx> i will
[21:59:00] <Tom_itx> i like oranges too
[21:59:05] <XXCoder1> apple owns slaves
[21:59:08] <Tom_itx> oh!...
[21:59:11] <XXCoder1> so yeah noy buying anytime soon too
[21:59:15] <renesis> so does every other pc company
[21:59:26] <Connor> http://www.lofibucket.com/articles/oscilloscope_quake.html Quake on a Osope!
[21:59:38] <renesis> foxconn builds *everyones* shit
[21:59:49] <XXCoder1> not quite but yeah
[21:59:57] <XXCoder1> its the dark side of tech :(
[22:00:00] <renesis> i opened my dell and theres a half dozen foxconn branded parts
[22:00:13] <renesis> its not the dark side
[22:00:16] <XXCoder1> apple is special because they said their shit dont smell
[22:00:17] <renesis> and theyre not slaves
[22:00:18] <XXCoder1> well it does
[22:00:28] <XXCoder1> renesis: I meant slaves when I said slaves
[22:00:32] <renesis> china is going to be better off for it
[22:00:36] <renesis> its going to fuck us
[22:00:58] <renesis> xxcoder1: its not that bad and they make much more than pannies an hour
[22:01:01] <XXCoder1> http://www.businessinsider.com/secret-filming-inside-apple-factory-bbc-panorama-2014-12
[22:01:11] <XXCoder1> renesis: its not that bad for factory workers
[22:01:20] <XXCoder1> I'm not talking about em
[22:01:23] <furrywolf> center bump removed, so it's no longer security torx.
[22:01:50] <renesis> um
[22:02:28] <renesis> so youre saying apple owns slaves because the raw materials in their products are procured under bad conditions?
[22:02:43] <XXCoder1> literal children slaves
[22:02:54] <renesis> welcome to living on the top of the food chain, thats how all your mass production shit gets made
[22:03:20] <renesis> we chopped up kids during our industrial revolution
[22:03:58] <renesis> we pulled ourselves up and made shit better later when we had the means
[22:04:28] <renesis> american industry's foundation is child slave labor and murder for machine maintenance
[22:04:50] <renesis> and war, so lots and lots of dead civlians
[22:05:02] <XXCoder1> thats what I want to end'
[22:05:15] <XXCoder1> not easy eh
[22:05:20] <renesis> why so they can stay on the bottom and we can stay on top?
[22:05:23] <renesis> theyre puttin work
[22:05:31] <renesis> and were to stupid to realize we gave up
[22:06:15] <renesis> were a service ecnonomy, we jerk each other off, we dont give a shit about education, and we dont make shit (relatively speaking)
[22:06:21] <renesis> we got bombs, thats it
[22:06:26] <renesis> thats why were respected
[22:06:34] <XXCoder1> I work in production type job
[22:06:41] <XXCoder1> cnc operator
[22:06:41] <renesis> i work with chinese CM
[22:07:05] <XXCoder1> every workday I turn alum into airplane parts
[22:07:10] <renesis> well youre anecdotal job doesnt change that we sold out manufacturing
[22:07:15] <XXCoder1> usually alum anyway. rarely not lol
[22:07:22] <renesis> and when it comes back, were essentially starting over
[22:08:02] <XXCoder1> let's see what happens
[22:08:13] <XXCoder1> theres starting to be machines thats generalist
[22:08:23] <renesis> itll be great, but my guess is we have to fuck our ecnomy a bit more before the accountants pull manufacturing back local
[22:08:25] <XXCoder1> machines that can operate stuff like manual mill macgine
[22:08:39] <XXCoder1> yeah I got no flipping idea what future will be like
[22:08:51] <renesis> hard
[22:08:57] <renesis> but itll be better for a lot of chinese
[22:09:10] <renesis> welcome to the equalization of the standard of living of the world
[22:09:13] <furrywolf> got it by chisseling against the points
[22:09:16] <XXCoder1> I hope so
[22:09:29] <XXCoder1> one of aspects I hope to change is far less oil addiction
[22:09:41] <renesis> energy is energy
[22:09:41] <XXCoder1> on that side I want to buy elio and am waiting.
[22:09:49] <renesis> electrics are turning out to be worse
[22:09:52] <XXCoder1> energy from earth is damaging
[22:10:00] <renesis> gasoline is pretty efficient shit
[22:10:09] <XXCoder1> elio still uses gas but 84 mpg
[22:10:36] <XXCoder1> oh telsa just revealed 400 mile electric car
[22:10:44] <XXCoder1> 400 mile is more than most cars out there
[22:10:51] <renesis> um
[22:10:54] <XXCoder1> so yeah :) I wonder how long recharge though ouch
[22:10:55] <renesis> yeah its not the same
[22:10:58] <renesis> at all
[22:11:11] <renesis> 400 miles and then how long to recharge?
[22:11:30] <renesis> my cars range is about 70*24 in a day
[22:11:32] <XXCoder1> probably hours, unfortunately unless they use quick charge
[22:11:49] <XXCoder1> definitely not long trip car
[22:11:53] <renesis> until they swap batteries, electrics will be for rich fucks
[22:12:04] <renesis> charging is retarded
[22:12:20] <renesis> its just dumb, wtf am i gonna do with a 400 mile car
[22:12:26] <XXCoder1> batteries is still bad :( theres capactors thats hella fast but not as much power
[22:12:32] <renesis> i live four blocks from school and the market
[22:12:35] <XXCoder1> its amazing daily though
[22:12:41] <renesis> car is pretty much for 600 miles trips
[22:12:56] <XXCoder1> ah lucky ya
[22:13:10] <XXCoder1> I have to go 20+ miles on way to work everyday
[22:13:11] <renesis> yeah im not that abnormal
[22:13:18] <renesis> a 400 mile car is for rich fucks
[22:13:27] <XXCoder1> not if gas lol
[22:13:33] <renesis> eh?
[22:13:40] <renesis> gas cars have unlimited range
[22:13:55] <XXCoder1> not quite, its "powered by money"
[22:14:01] <XXCoder1> you cant buy gas without money
[22:14:03] <renesis> because i can put more gas in the car in 3 minutes
[22:14:12] <XXCoder1> but yeah
[22:14:13] <renesis> you cant buy power without money
[22:14:26] <renesis> and power you buy isnt going to get into the battery faster
[22:14:36] <renesis> quick charging in a car is insanity anyway
[22:14:55] <renesis> charging should be done in charge facities like gas stations, under controlled and safe conditions
[22:14:56] <XXCoder1> not when capactors ever get to near battery amount of power
[22:15:02] <furrywolf> no problems visible under the wireless card cover. both antennas are attached. gave them a wiggle, and put the cover back on using a #00 phillips from the serial port cover, instead of the evil screw.
[22:15:08] <renesis> they should just swap out batteries
[22:15:30] <renesis> pull up, battery drops out or gets pushed out the side or pulled up and out the back
[22:15:47] <furrywolf> renesis: tesla recently announced trials of battery swapping in southern california
[22:15:48] <XXCoder1> nah doesnt work
[22:15:50] <renesis> whatever, but if they dont start making swappable battery packs, its just a technology for rich fucks
[22:15:54] <renesis> a second car
[22:15:56] <XXCoder1> furry interesting
[22:16:25] <renesis> furrywolf: as maintenance or as normal operation?
[22:16:42] <furrywolf> renesis: as in 3 minutes and $60 later you drive off with a new pack
[22:16:45] <renesis> i saw that mentioned but didnt read the article, i assumed for maintenance and upgrades in the field
[22:16:54] <renesis> cool thats how it should be
[22:17:16] <renesis> i love gas but i would rock an electric sports car that could do that
[22:17:34] <renesis> if you cant drive coast to coast in it non stop, its a toy
[22:17:53] <XXCoder1> http://www.extremetech.com/extreme/122763-graphene-supercapacitors-are-20-times-as-powerful-can-be-made-with-a-dvd-burner
[22:18:10] <XXCoder1> ren unless you just use it for daily drive short range
[22:18:17] <XXCoder1> it certainly work work for my work trips
[22:18:21] <XXCoder1> just plug at home
[22:18:25] <renesis> yeah im not trying to build my life around a toy car
[22:18:26] <Connor> What ever happened to using fuel cells ?
[22:18:33] <renesis> cars are for going places and for emergencies
[22:18:41] <XXCoder1> Connor: platium prices
[22:18:53] <renesis> didnt that involve hydrogen?
[22:19:07] <XXCoder1> they invented something new that acts like platium but vastly cheaper but quiet on that so far
[22:19:10] <furrywolf> connor: fuel cells are a relatively useless technology. everyone who claims they're good somehow forgets that hydrogen doesn't appear out of nowhere to run them.
[22:19:25] <XXCoder1> furrywolf: it uses water
[22:19:31] <renesis> yeah producing hydrogen is a huge energy sink
[22:19:36] <XXCoder1> thing is it require platinium is insane
[22:19:40] <cradek> but you can burn coal to make electricity to make hydrogen!
[22:19:50] <Connor> What I remember is, recharging them by replacing the electrolyte..
[22:20:03] <renesis> cradek: solution is obviously coal plants in space
[22:20:12] <XXCoder1> yummy coal
[22:20:19] <cradek> yes obviously
[22:20:27] <cradek> we could call it"clean coal technology"
[22:20:28] <renesis> with microwave energy transfer
[22:20:47] <renesis> i think we should just call is laser space coal
[22:21:00] <renesis> laser wouldnt be accurate, but good marketing never is
[22:21:15] <Connor> Frankly, I liked the Compressed Air Powered cars.. no expensive battery..
[22:21:27] <renesis> range sucked tho, didnt it?
[22:21:33] <cradek> 12 feet?
[22:21:39] <furrywolf> producing hydrogen and running a fuel cell is substantially less efficient than batteries. fuel cells tend to have piss-poor power-weight ratios, requiring very heavy units, weighing more than batteries. hydrogen storage is complex, often heavy, and has safety issues... and weighs more than batteries. oh, and fuel cells are ungodly expensive, and short lived, just like batteries.
[22:21:45] <Connor> Not any worse than electric cars.
[22:21:48] <XXCoder1> Connor: yeah :(
[22:21:55] <XXCoder1> they started working in usa
[22:22:00] <XXCoder1> then some company fucked with it
[22:22:37] <XXCoder1> furrywolf: not if you just carry water and generate hyrogen but somewhat less effecient AND dammit expensive metal
[22:22:53] <renesis> yeah somehow i dont think a compressed air car is going to be safe
[22:23:09] <renesis> if its that compressed
[22:23:14] <Connor> renesis: No more safe than a GAS tank ?
[22:23:21] <renesis> dude gas is pretty safe
[22:23:23] <furrywolf> xxcoder: how do you plan to magically generate hydrogen? turning water into hydrogen requires more energy than you get from the hydrogen.
[22:23:24] <Connor> and yes.. they can be perfectly safe.
[22:23:58] <renesis> like, gas car you usually have time
[22:24:01] <furrywolf> compressed air is safer than compressed hydrogen, at least. :)
[22:24:07] <renesis> if a compressed tank goes, youre prob just over
[22:24:11] <renesis> yeah
[22:24:13] <renesis> for sure
[22:24:18] <XXCoder1> furrywolf: http://www.instructables.com/id/How-to-Make-A-Simple-Hydrogen-Fuel-Cell/
[22:24:27] <Connor> time to eat
[22:24:49] <XXCoder1> its toy project but it does make power
[22:24:59] <XXCoder1> and yes it uses platinium coated wire
[22:25:10] <renesis> anyway, batteries and capacitors are probably the best storage medium besides gasoline
[22:25:41] <furrywolf> and yes it REQUIRES HYDROGEN. hydrogen is NOT EASY TO MAKE. it takes lots and lots of energy to make hydrogen.
[22:25:51] <renesis> and then its hydrogen
[22:26:01] <XXCoder1> renesis: I remember reading about cool new 3d anode and err other but quiet since I guess it failed to move to market like billions of other battery inventions
[22:26:06] <renesis> you want hydrogen depots on every other corner?
[22:26:10] <XXCoder1> furrywolf: dude didnt youy read article
[22:26:15] <XXCoder1> you make power from water
[22:26:32] <XXCoder1> needs small initial power then cycle. it wears out stuff
[22:26:39] <furrywolf> hydrogen can be produced from electricity, in which case the economics are the same as for batteries, except less efficient and heavier. or, you can produce it from natural gas, which happens to also produce just as much co2 as burning said natural gas...
[22:26:41] <renesis> how much energy does it cost to make the cell, and mine the materials, and how long does it last
[22:27:19] <XXCoder1> renesis: unfortunately it will never work as long as it needs platinium. way too expensive. still quiet on that cheap carbon versiobn
[22:27:37] <furrywolf> xxcoder: I suggest you do more reading. the electricity you put in goes to making hydrogen from the water, which is then used to get power back out. but you have to put in substantially more electricity initially than you will get out later. it's just storing electricity, not somehow making it from water.
[22:28:04] <renesis> by the time they peak on li-ion density and reliability, capacitors will be ready
[22:28:17] <XXCoder1> it makes more power than you put into it. that is what makes it fuel cell
[22:28:20] <renesis> and then you get another decade or so of focused advancement
[22:28:24] <XXCoder1> it requires control
[22:28:29] <furrywolf> grrrrrr, and my wireless is back to 100% packet loss!
[22:28:34] <renesis> once they make swapping batteries a standrd, electrics will make sense
[22:28:48] <furrywolf> xxcoder1: no, it doesn't. not just due to reality, but to basic physics.
[22:29:32] <renesis> batteries and caps are proven technology, old hat, its shit were good at
[22:29:42] <furrywolf> you put in a certain amount of electricity, say 100 watt-hours. maybe 80% of that goes to making hydrogen, and 20% goes to making heat. then you turn that hydrogen back to water, getting out electricity... and another 20% heat...
[22:30:52] <furrywolf> the water itself contains no energy - it's just going to sit there, not react. you use energy to convert the water to hydrogen. the hydrogen has energy, and will react with oxygen to turn itself back into water, and you extract energy when it does that. but all it's doing it storing energy, not creating it.
[22:31:55] <renesis> converting energy is a low, stoppit
[22:32:00] <renesis> *loss
[22:33:02] <renesis> ideally you have a factory that makes energy from coal, gas, solar, nuclear, whatever, and you charge the car batteries there
[22:33:22] <renesis> but then you have to transport the batteries, and maybe warehouse, both of which are energy sinks
[22:33:37] <furrywolf> ideally the energy comes out of thin air for free, or at least most people supporting the "hydrogen economy" seem to think so. :P
[22:33:39] <renesis> so prob better to just charge at stations like we do with gas
[22:34:20] <furrywolf> hydrogen is just another form of battery, except it's been shown to be heavier and less efficient.
[22:34:37] <renesis> little nuclear power plants on every other corner to charge car batteries is totally best solution
[22:34:40] <furrywolf> its main advantage is rapid filling of tanks
[22:34:42] <XXCoder1> furrywolf: it is.
[22:34:53] <XXCoder1> fuel cell? not how you think it works
[22:34:56] <XXCoder1> http://auto.howstuffworks.com/fuel-efficiency/alternative-fuels/fuel-cell.htm
[22:35:04] <furrywolf> ok, I'm giving up.
[22:35:15] <toastydeath> lol
[22:36:15] <renesis> i wonder how small you can make a nuclear reactor
[22:36:15] <furrywolf> xxcoder1: the part you don't seem to get is that it takes more energy to produce hydrogen than you get back out when you put the hydrogen into a fuel cell.
[22:36:26] <toastydeath> not very small
[22:36:29] <furrywolf> renesis: the soviets sent several to space.
[22:36:32] <toastydeath> and proliferation is a huge issue
[22:36:36] <furrywolf> in small satellites.
[22:36:38] <renesis> yeah
[22:36:45] <toastydeath> radiodecay generators are a different issue
[22:36:48] <furrywolf> actual reactors, with coolant loops, etc, not just RTGs.
[22:36:51] <toastydeath> but are hugely inefficient and extremely dangerous
[22:37:22] <toastydeath> the smallest you can get a nuclear reactor at the moment is the entire ass end of a submarine
[22:37:44] <renesis> just has to do with critical mass of available materials?
[22:38:00] <toastydeath> has to do with a bunch of different things, not the critical mass.
[22:38:06] <renesis> or its related to the shielding involved
[22:38:10] <furrywolf> toasty: no. very small reactors have been built and successfully put into service.
[22:38:13] <toastydeath> shielding is primary
[22:38:33] <toastydeath> getting the energy out of the steam in any efficient way is the second weight limit
[22:39:05] <toastydeath> the reactor itself can be made very small if you're okay with shitty efficiency and no shielding
[22:39:20] <renesis> right which doesnt work for deployment
[22:39:29] <furrywolf> example: "The first TOPAZ reactor operated for 1,300 hours and then was shut down for detailed examination. It was capable of delivering 5 kW of power for 3–5 years from 12 kg (26 lb) of fuel. Reactor mass was ~ 320 kg (710 lb)."
[22:39:34] <furrywolf> the US had a similar program
[22:39:49] <renesis> research and mil reactors dont really count
[22:40:06] <toastydeath> yep, and the efficiency is shit and it wasn't shielded
[22:40:47] <renesis> hiking around here is probably not safe because of mil research reactors
[22:40:54] <renesis> in spots
[22:41:00] <XXCoder1> yummy ractors
[22:41:03] <XXCoder1> reactors
[22:41:05] <toastydeath> the biggest weight problem is really the turbines
[22:41:15] <toastydeath> if you are using a steam cycle
[22:41:15] <furrywolf> the US has a current program that uses a very small opposed piston stirling engine, that's supposed to be stupidly efficient.
[22:41:28] <renesis> what else is there besides steam?
[22:41:29] <furrywolf> trying to remember what it was...
[22:41:43] <XXCoder1> stirling. I need to finish mine dammit lol
[22:41:59] <toastydeath> and on top of all this, the absolute last thing you need is the highly enriched uranium you need for small reactors on every street corner
[22:42:08] <furrywolf> renesis: stirling with hydrogen or helium as the working fluid is popular.
[22:42:14] <XXCoder1> it is pretty effectient allright but it has many of same problems as steam if you wanna directly use it for cars :)
[22:42:22] <XXCoder1> as bonus: not as well researched
[22:42:40] <renesis> furrywolf: right but still big and mechanical
[22:42:51] <toastydeath> keep the reactors in large, highly controlled environments where weight, shielding, and security are not concerns
[22:42:54] <renesis> okay so basically you cant deploy nuclear reactors with current tech
[22:43:29] <renesis> so you just do remote reactors, charge up batteries on street corners
[22:43:31] <toastydeath> if we started seriously researching alternatives today (and we're not) we could probably have working alternatives that were fairly safe and not direct proliferation risks in 20 years
[22:43:44] <renesis> and thatll save the planet
[22:44:12] <furrywolf> again, russia launched ACTUAL, WORKING nuclear reactors aboard satellites, to power actual functional satellites, not just research tests.
[22:44:14] <renesis> you build all the reactors 100 ft underground and put explosives in a concrete dome over them
[22:44:30] <renesis> some fucks up, you blow the shit up and bury it
[22:44:31] <toastydeath> hell yeah they did, and i hope they never do again
[22:44:54] <renesis> furrywolf: yeah but what kind of shielding and how long they last?
[22:44:57] <toastydeath> none of that was a good idea, it won't ever be a good idea, and pretty much everyone in a position of power has come to the (correct) idea that no, it's not a good idea
[22:45:24] <furrywolf> renesis: one worked for ~20 years until it exploded.... explosion could have been due to failure, or meteorite impact.
[22:45:33] <toastydeath> even with helium cooled, pebble bed thorium reactors
[22:45:43] <XXCoder1> nuclear power makes lot power but risk jeez
[22:45:49] <XXCoder1> I rather not go there heh
[22:45:52] <toastydeath> i do not see the need for that given the risk
[22:45:52] <furrywolf> toasty: and yet nasa is currently researching space stirling generators...
[22:45:58] <renesis> risk can be reduced
[22:46:08] <renesis> you just build it like you know its going to fuckup
[22:46:10] <toastydeath> the risk of someone stealing the reactor and then blowing it up downtown?
[22:46:22] <toastydeath> and irradiating half the city?
[22:46:32] <XXCoder1> "hot" nuclear waste direct to power is pretty good but like toastydeath says...
[22:46:39] <renesis> price you pay for not be able to defend your shit
[22:46:49] <renesis> we have a huge mil, we should be able to handle that
[22:46:56] <toastydeath> that's a massive cop out for the risk involved
[22:46:58] <furrywolf> personally I think we should put a lot more money into fusion power research.
[22:47:05] <renesis> also, you could design shit so its basically one way
[22:47:17] <furrywolf> fusion power has the potential to safely meet all of our energy needs for a good period of time
[22:47:19] <toastydeath> ...you can't tell *nuclear reactions* not to produce nuclear waste
[22:47:28] <toastydeath> and agree re: fusion
[22:47:47] <renesis> no but you can make it so its nearly impossible to extract the waste or fuel
[22:47:57] <toastydeath> wat
[22:48:03] <renesis> systems were design like normal power plants with too much human involvement
[22:48:15] <furrywolf> fusion reactors contain minimal fuel, and are so hard to keep the reaction going that any failure simply results in the reaction going out. no shutdown systems, etc needed. the worst waste is the irradiated components of the plant at decomissioning time.
[22:48:30] <toastydeath> modern reactor designs are done exactly that way, and they're STILL a threat if someone decides to blow them up
[22:48:50] <renesis> so you make it so if it blows up you can contain it
[22:49:12] <toastydeath> there is no material in the universe that, when stolen by a third party, will resist being turned into a dirty bomb
[22:49:22] <toastydeath> if there were, we'd make safes out of it
[22:49:37] <renesis> dirty bombs are pretty useless?
[22:49:41] <XXCoder1> there is. just make it not produce any. probably impossible though
[22:50:02] <toastydeath> on what planet are dirty bombs useless, they're terror weapons and whole areas are shut down out of public safety
[22:50:12] <toastydeath> the economic damage is enormous
[22:50:44] <XXCoder1> you said there is no material that can't be turned into dirty bomb
[22:51:01] <toastydeath> so when you split an atom, you don't really get to choose the decay products
[22:51:18] <XXCoder1> indeed that's why I said basically impossible
[22:51:24] <toastydeath> it's not "basically impossible"
[22:51:26] <toastydeath> it's flat out impossible
[22:51:47] <XXCoder1> unless its multi-stage process that breaks it far down that it does not decay - ie iron
[22:52:03] <XXCoder1> people said it was impossible to beat speed of dound
[22:52:07] <XXCoder1> sound
[22:52:24] <renesis> yeah i dont think the smart informed people said that
[22:52:27] <toastydeath> so there's a difference between the long-term stability of an isotope, which is what you're referring to with iron i assume
[22:52:48] <XXCoder1> renesis: there is none... now.
[22:52:55] <toastydeath> which is actually the endpoint of fusion and doesn't have anything to do with fission per se
[22:53:37] * furrywolf seems to recall iron being activated in nuclear reactors...
[22:53:55] <toastydeath> versus fissioning a heavier element into ligher ones, which is completely different and will make all sorts of shit that we're told "is stable" unstable
[22:53:56] <toastydeath> including iron
[22:54:09] <XXCoder1> indeed
[22:54:27] <toastydeath> between the direction fission products themselves being unstable, and neutron capture
[22:54:29] <XXCoder1> there may be unknown future way to make em stable. we sure don't have any such process now.
[22:54:49] <toastydeath> we have really, really, really good reason to believe there's no way to do that, ever
[22:54:54] <XXCoder1> indeed
[22:55:07] <Computer_Barf> so when do i get my mr fusion
[22:55:16] <XXCoder1> mr fusion I want one too.
[22:55:18] <toastydeath> iirc GE is working on that right now
[22:55:20] <furrywolf> I suspect that in the future, we instead find more ways to make them unstable. :P
[22:55:40] <Computer_Barf> the best part of mr fusion is that its made of plastic
[22:55:47] <toastydeath> http://www.lockheedmartin.com/us/products/compact-fusion.html
[22:55:51] <Computer_Barf> injection moulded white plastic
[22:55:55] <toastydeath> we probably aren't far off
[22:56:02] <XXCoder1> ironically such massive (yet cheap and small) source of power for everyone would cause massive global warming, worse than pollutions we haul up now
[22:56:27] <XXCoder1> Computer_Barf: yeah cover is plastic. internal is unknown
[22:56:50] <furrywolf> xxcoder: probably not. our power use is small compared to solar insolation, and we'd be producing a lot less co2.
[22:56:56] <Computer_Barf> remember when acid rain was going to get so bad our skin would burn?
[22:57:10] <XXCoder1> we dodged that
[22:57:22] <Computer_Barf> or the hole in the ozone was going to expand to cover half the planet?
[22:57:26] <toastydeath> i know far less about global warming, but isn't the issue not strictly heat emitted, but how effective the planet radiates
[22:57:26] <XXCoder1> furrywolf: yeah short term
[22:57:38] <Computer_Barf> or when we were going to be in an ice age by the year 2000?
[22:57:38] <XXCoder1> Computer_Barf: also dodged. we use LOT less hole making chemicals now.
[22:58:13] <XXCoder1> we are supposed to be entering ice age normal cycles
[22:58:21] <Computer_Barf> or how florida was going to be underwater by now
[22:58:24] <XXCoder1> more logs in fire prevented that
[22:59:02] <furrywolf> you ever been to florida? most of it is abour six inches from being underwater already... :P
[22:59:21] <XXCoder1> greenland is melting so fast though :( its stopping normal ocean water movements there
[22:59:27] <XXCoder1> europe will get cold
[22:59:28] <Computer_Barf> yeah, but that wasn't the prediction
[22:59:43] <XXCoder1> scientists change with better data and modeling
[22:59:52] <XXCoder1> evidence based.
[23:00:04] <furrywolf> religists insist the data must be wrong. :P
[23:00:27] <Computer_Barf> thats the thing with modeling
[23:01:02] <toastydeath> you have to be very thin and over 6'0"
[23:01:16] <Computer_Barf> we've still got masses of scientists that didn't grasp the implications of chaos theory
[23:01:34] <Computer_Barf> still trying to model complex systems
[23:01:52] <Computer_Barf> i.e. "climate is not weather"
[23:02:17] <toastydeath> lol, chaos theory just says any particular solution to a class of dynamic systems won't be accurate after a time because of sensitivity to the starting conditions
[23:02:40] <toastydeath> you can still full well look at the system itself and derive probabilities from it
[23:03:15] <XXCoder1> science. it will NEVER be 100%
[23:03:40] <XXCoder1> it takes infinite amount of research to get to 100%
[23:03:40] <toastydeath> that's actually how the first atomic bomb was built
[23:03:50] <Computer_Barf> toastydeath: they are treating the system like its closed in terms of whatever they are modeling, its not.
[23:04:27] <renesis> i think most people constructing models know theyre only as good as known inputs
[23:04:42] <XXCoder1> heh closed energy eoropy is favorite argument for anti-evolution people. Well earth is not closed. we got a big flipping battery one au away
[23:04:48] <renesis> always unknowns
[23:04:56] <XXCoder1> gigo.
[23:05:33] <renesis> living things can survive space and high temps, earth is prob not a closed biological system
[23:05:45] <XXCoder1> talking about energy :)
[23:05:50] <XXCoder1> but yeah
[23:06:04] <Computer_Barf> I wasn't saying it was closed, i said they were treating it like it was.
[23:06:08] <renesis> you brought up evolution
[23:06:14] <XXCoder1> indeed
[23:06:30] <XXCoder1> Computer_Barf: yeah can't model every poossibility
[23:06:43] <XXCoder1> unless I suppose you got universe simulator
[23:07:13] <renesis> and trying to model what you dont know based on observations of other 'chaotic' systems is still guessing
[23:07:45] <Computer_Barf> I wasn't suggesting they should model every possiblity, i was suggesting that modeling climate will turn out like modeling weather
[23:08:00] <renesis> put a model in your model so you can guess about what youre guessing
[23:08:27] <XXCoder1> yo I heard...
[23:08:30] <renesis> theyre usually right about the weather
[23:08:34] <toastydeath> so at least a quick google reveals that most methods do in fact measure the solar irradiance
[23:08:37] <XXCoder1> *like
[23:08:49] <toastydeath> and take both solar irradiance and thermal radiation into account
[23:09:16] <toastydeath> so i am not sure what else there is to account for?
[23:09:50] <XXCoder1> airplanes
[23:09:50] <renesis> all the other stars, shrug
[23:09:52] <Computer_Barf> thats the point, you won't know until its compounded your model into pointlessness
[23:10:03] <toastydeath> wat
[23:10:24] <XXCoder1> 9/11 taught scientists a lot on airplanes effect on weather. (assuming youre talking about weather modeling)
[23:10:27] <toastydeath> it really hasn't, these seem to all be accounting for the same factors but make slightly different assumptions
[23:10:30] <toastydeath> hence different models
[23:11:18] <toastydeath> there's no compounding of the model, just more numerically robust models as computing power becomes more available
[23:11:38] <toastydeath> they all seem to be using the same fundamental set of multiphysics equations
[23:13:02] <toastydeath> all of these differences appear to be completely numeric in nature and not at all different in the fundamental physics
[23:13:15] <XXCoder1> who posted compact fusion link?
[23:13:19] <toastydeath> i did
[23:13:41] <XXCoder1> thanks
[23:13:47] <toastydeath> np
[23:14:58] <XXCoder1> probably will disappear like so many stuff
[23:15:19] <XXCoder1> I really hope graphete capactprs are not one of em. well im out for now