#linuxcnc | Logs for 2014-12-23

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[05:15:31] <Deejay> moin
[06:54:32] <jthornton> whoopee I finally got gtk to draw a line!!!
[06:55:07] <jthornton> the docs on this stuff sucks
[06:58:08] <Jymmm> GTK+ Tutorial for beginners... http://zetcode.com/tutorials/gtktutorial/
[07:00:31] <jthornton> that's not for drawing
[07:00:51] <jthornton> gtk uses drawingarea and cairo for that
[07:03:13] <jthornton> http://cairographics.org/manual/
[07:38:21] <Loetmichel> *gnah* my most liked radio station has "unchain my heart" "you can leave your hat on" "fire it up" and the likes in endless loop... its OK, i know he is dead by now... could they PLESE go back to regular program?
[07:46:00] <SpeedEvil> unchain my playist
[09:39:26] <furrywolf> got a refund from the breakout board seller... now I need to decide if I want to recap it, or use a different one.
[09:40:23] <jdh> move on
[09:41:17] <furrywolf> it seems like a good design... just counterfeit caps.
[10:02:29] <furrywolf> in unrelated news, swapping hard drives between two identical laptops.... I hate windows. linux, perfectly happy. windows... boots, then proceeds to uninstall half the drivers, including sound. it played the windows startup sound just fine, THEN removed it.
[10:03:09] <cradek> doctor doctor, it hurts when I use windows
[10:04:26] <PetefromTn_> Doctor, it hurts when I do this....... Well.....Don't do that LOL!!
[10:04:52] <furrywolf> have two programs that don't WINE...
[10:05:08] <furrywolf> one being an auto repair program, the other being flashcut, as used by my sherline.
[10:12:02] <furrywolf> the sherline will be converted to linuxcnc at some point, but it'll involve replacing the flashcut box and rewiring...
[10:14:32] <mozmck> using newer versions of windows just increases the hurt too!
[10:14:34] <jdh> g540 and use existing everything else
[10:15:20] <archivist> win8 is the final straw, there is nothing worse on the planet
[10:16:26] <jdh> winME
[10:19:01] * archivist winCEs
[10:19:28] <archivist> I have a small wifi barcode reader with that on it
[10:19:42] <mozmck> make sure the reset button is prominent
[10:20:21] <archivist> one has to remove the battery to reset it
[10:20:29] <furrywolf> I don't know if winme is worse than win8.
[10:20:45] <furrywolf> at least winme had a usable ui.
[10:21:08] <mozmck> haha! well, if the developers were short-sighted enough to use winCE, then not having a reset button is not too surprising.
[10:22:26] <jdh> I have a bunch of WinCE wifi barcode guns at work. They work pretty well.
[10:22:34] <archivist> it slowly gobbles ram then needs a reset
[10:22:39] <jdh> once a month reboots.
[10:22:47] <furrywolf> people rave about flashcut, but let's just say I don't like it. it's functional, but it's buggy as fucking hell. this might be fixed in a newer software version, but it won't let me install a newer version. I called them, and they told me the new version would only install if I put a newer eeprom chip in the box.
[10:22:51] <mozmck> sounds about typical
[10:23:10] <mozmck> re the barcode scanner that is...
[10:23:15] <jdh> I've never heard anyone rave about flashcut
[10:23:18] <furrywolf> they then told me they wanted $300 for the $1 eeprom chip, and no, they wouldn't just send me the file and let me burn it. so I told them to go to hell.
[10:23:23] <archivist> the quit button is of screen on the out of ram error!
[10:23:45] <mozmck> jdh, I have, but it is usually negative ;)
[10:24:09] <jdh> archivist: mine auto-run a telnet that logs in to a unix box and runs a simple material move program.
[10:24:57] <mozmck> speaking of memory leaks, the xhc-hb04 component in linuxcnc has a bad one.
[10:25:04] <archivist> jdh I have a small web app that the barcode stabs with values
[10:25:50] <jdh> archivist: yours run a browser?
[10:25:53] <furrywolf> god fucking damnit. it's looking like I'm going to have to reinstall windows.
[10:25:58] <archivist> jdh yes
[10:26:05] <furrywolf> all because I switched drives around.
[10:26:19] <jdh> heh... browser is way too much overhead for barcodes
[10:26:57] <archivist> well I have remote access to the complete app that way
[10:27:32] <jdh> a browser is no place for an app
[10:27:49] <archivist> the app is on the server really
[10:29:07] <jdh> can you use it without a browser
[10:29:11] <archivist> I am not one of those to stuff a browser with slow code
[10:29:59] <archivist> I could if I wrote something for the wince toy
[10:31:53] <archivist> using the browser on the toy meant nothing needed to be installed at all
[10:40:22] <furrywolf> bbl, work. and looks like when I get home, I get to do two complete windows reinstalls. yay.
[12:09:13] <Loetmichel> *GRRR* i HATE this shitty Speedport W700v router... time to get a fritzbox... ever few days it needs a reboot because [wife] is yelling from the sleeping room "HEY, HUSBAND, RESET THE ROUTER _NOW_, WIFI ISNT WORKING ANYMORE _AGAIN_!!!!111"
[12:49:57] <zeeshan> does enable and ground signal coming from servo drive need to be shielded
[12:52:59] <_methods> Loetmichel: just use and old computer with a couple network cards and pfsense
[12:53:23] <_methods> way more reliable
[13:01:31] <SpeedEvil> Thre are openwrt capable boxes now from some vendors
[13:01:52] <SpeedEvil> http://wiki.openwrt.org/toh/buffalo/wbmr-hp-g300h
[13:02:45] <_methods> you're still using consumer grade trash routers
[13:03:22] <_methods> i use an ubiquiti wifi ap pro for my wifi and pfsense UTM/firewall for my router
[13:08:10] <SpeedEvil> Or that of course
[13:08:34] <SpeedEvil> 'old computer' can end up costing quite a lot in power if you don't pick the right one
[13:12:27] <Loetmichel> _methods: wouldn get me the DSL modem
[13:13:03] <Loetmichel> SpeedEvil:my homeserver could do that
[13:13:11] <Loetmichel> it is running 24/7 anyways
[13:13:22] <Loetmichel> and at about 40W thats not THAT expensive
[13:13:37] <Loetmichel> still i would be missing the adsl2+ modem
[13:14:09] <Loetmichel> and the telekom router still has the memory leak in "dumb modem mode"
[13:14:14] <Loetmichel> so i cant use that
[13:28:58] <willburrrr2003> good Afternoon all
[13:30:23] <willburrrr2003> Finally reclaiming my garage, that was filled with my sisters stuff when she moved out of her last place. This means I can get back to working on my lathe . Pretty stoked to make more progress!
[13:32:57] <willburrrr2003> My last success with linuxCNC ver 2.5 was to get classicladder talking via modbus to an external PLC. However, after I accomplished this I lost my spindle speed control, and it seems to start at way more than my max full speed and sounds like it is going to break the spindle gears in the process. Does anyone know if modbus causes issues with paralell port operation ?
[13:46:13] <hypertrophy> iQuit :D
[13:46:30] <hypertrophy> varvarin, where the hell are you bud?
[13:55:43] <_methods> merry xmas
[13:55:45] <_methods> http://i.imgur.com/FG2wcV7.gif
[13:59:34] <Deejay> lol _methods :D
[13:59:52] <_methods> hehe
[13:59:59] <Deejay> dionaea muscipula, venus fly trap :)
[14:00:12] <_methods> santa fly trap lol
[14:00:17] <Deejay> hehe
[14:00:32] <PetefromTn_> Thats not the REAL Santa tho....
[14:00:52] <_methods> he ate all the reindeer
[14:00:53] <Deejay> i'm cultivating venus fly traps in our garden :)
[14:01:27] <_methods> really?
[14:01:44] <PetefromTn_> Got fly problems?
[14:01:56] <_methods> wow they're actually native to south carolina
[14:01:58] <_methods> i had no idea
[14:02:00] <Deejay> yes, realldy
[14:02:05] <Deejay> -d
[14:02:16] <_methods> i guess i could just grow them in my back yard lol
[14:02:17] <Deejay> carnivorous plants is one of my hobbies
[14:02:43] <Deejay> _methods, perhaps, with the right soil and amout of water :)
[14:03:59] <_methods> hmmm 60 mile radius around wilmington NC
[14:08:30] <jdh> I bike by thousands all the time
[14:09:17] <jdh> minus the tons that were poached last year
[14:09:46] <_methods> venus fly traps are cool
[14:09:54] <_methods> especially santa claus ones lol
[14:10:07] <_methods> i had no idea that they were native to here though
[14:10:21] <jdh> are they?
[14:10:29] <jdh> I didn't think they were much south of here
[14:10:33] <_methods> yeah NC and SC
[14:10:43] <Deejay> :)
[14:10:56] <_methods> i thought they were from some insane south american jungle or something
[14:11:02] <Deejay> took this photo in 2010: http://www.djelkmann.de/wordpress/wp-content/gallery/fotos-moorbeete-juli-2010/img_3009.jpg
[14:11:33] <_methods> pitcher plants too
[14:11:33] <_methods> nice
[14:11:38] <Deejay> of course
[14:11:39] <jdh> cool. looks healthier than most wild ones
[14:13:10] <Deejay> and sundew: http://www.djelkmann.de/wordpress/wp-content/gallery/fotos-moorbeete-juli-2010/img_2994.jpg
[14:14:06] <Deejay> ok, enough off topic ;)
[14:36:04] <zeeshan> ssi is tefzel wire
[14:36:05] <zeeshan> twisted?
[15:18:30] <LeelooMinai> I would like to use Chinese spindle that woeks up to 400Hz in my room, that is 110V only. I can get inverter for 110V, but it will typically max at 220Hz or so. What do you think about using 2000watt 110V to 220V transformer and then 220V VFD + such spindle. I realize that power will be limited by the 110V outlet, but otherwise... should work?
[15:19:05] <zeeshan> why not buy a vfd
[15:19:14] <zeeshan> with 110v to 220v step up in it
[15:19:14] <LeelooMinai> Read again? :)
[15:19:29] <zeeshan> i dont believe they max to 220hz.
[15:19:30] <zeeshan> :)
[15:19:32] <zeeshan> thats a crapy inverter.
[15:19:49] <LeelooMinai> I was looking at this: http://www.automationdirect.com/adc/Shopping/Catalog/Drives/GS2_(115_-z-_230_-z-_460_-z-_575_VAC_V-z-Hz_Control)/GS2_Drive_Units_(115_-z-_230_-z-_460_-z-_575_VAC)/GS2-21P0
[15:20:07] <LeelooMinai> It seems to have good documentation and good communication features.
[15:20:25] <zeeshan> i told you one a while ago
[15:20:26] <zeeshan> that does 400hz
[15:20:45] <zeeshan> ah shit
[15:20:47] <zeeshan> it was upto .5hz
[15:20:49] <zeeshan> .5hp
[15:20:50] <zeeshan> but 400hz
[15:21:13] <zeeshan> the only reason im against an external transformer
[15:21:17] <zeeshan> is theyre costly
[15:21:22] <zeeshan> unless you can find one cheap!
[15:21:27] <LeelooMinai> $80 or so
[15:21:30] <zeeshan> link
[15:21:36] <LeelooMinai> $100 with shipping maybe
[15:22:04] <LeelooMinai> Sec, I saw it yesterday. You are in Canada, right?
[15:22:29] <zeeshan> im in hamilton dork
[15:22:48] <zeeshan> i swear ive seen a 110v drive that can drive a 240v motor
[15:22:55] <zeeshan> 1hp
[15:23:20] <LeelooMinai> I should have bookmark it yesterday
[15:24:16] <LeelooMinai> zeeshan: Found it: http://www.voltageconverters.ca/c-2-voltage_converters.aspx
[15:24:31] <LeelooMinai> They have 2000watt for $88.99
[15:24:35] <zeeshan> thats not bad at all
[15:25:01] <LeelooMinai> Right, so I thought this transformer + that GS2 - that should work well, right?
[15:25:55] <zeeshan> some expert is going to have to answer that
[15:26:04] <zeeshan> i know vfds spit a lot of haramonics into the primary supply
[15:26:17] <zeeshan> that might mean you might need a bigger transformer than 2000w.
[15:26:33] <zeeshan> unless you throw a reactor before it
[15:26:36] <LeelooMinai> The 3000 one is 119
[15:26:59] <zeeshan> btw you did see me write automationdirect is the best
[15:27:00] <zeeshan> right? :D
[15:27:29] <LeelooMinai> I usually don't read what you write/
[15:27:35] <LeelooMinai> j/k:)
[15:27:46] <LeelooMinai> Yes, but I thought it's some US site.
[15:27:58] <zeeshan> well they love canada
[15:28:04] <LeelooMinai> I mean it is probably, but they seem to cover Canada well.
[15:28:08] <zeeshan> orders more than 49$ = free 2 day shipping using fedex
[15:28:13] <zeeshan> and they handle all the brokerage stuff
[15:28:16] <zeeshan> so you only pay HST.
[15:28:17] <LeelooMinai> Right - how about duties?
[15:28:30] <LeelooMinai> Good then
[15:28:54] <zeeshan> it almost makes buying stuff locally
[15:28:56] <zeeshan> pointless
[15:29:10] <zeeshan> the only problem is they dont have everything :(
[15:29:14] <LeelooMinai> Probably should look around if they have some other useful stuff - saw some cables.etc.
[15:29:15] <zeeshan> i could not find vfd cable there
[15:29:25] <zeeshan> or 2 wire shielded twisted pair
[15:29:54] <zeeshan> i have 3 vfds in the garage
[15:30:01] <zeeshan> and it causes some serious havoc to my radio
[15:30:08] <zeeshan> with the amount of emissions they throw out
[15:30:13] <zeeshan> thats why i want proper vfd shielded cable
[15:30:23] <zeeshan> http://ca-en.alliedelec.com/search/productdetail.aspx?SKU=70124630
[15:30:24] <zeeshan> this stuff
[15:30:43] <LeelooMinai> I have such cables on the steppers, but need mroe
[15:30:50] <zeeshan> whered you get it from?|
[15:31:07] <zeeshan> my stepper cables are CMR rated
[15:31:09] <zeeshan> so only 300V
[15:31:16] <LeelooMinai> Long time ago from ebay - so not available any more.
[15:31:18] <LeelooMinai> I should have bought more then:/
[15:31:20] <zeeshan> that would be kinda cutting it close for a 3ph 230v motor
[15:31:48] <zeeshan> 3.64$ per foot is a lot of $
[15:31:49] <zeeshan> :(
[15:31:57] <zeeshan> i need like 20 feet.
[15:31:59] <zeeshan> maybe 25
[15:32:15] <LeelooMinai> Yes, cables are not cheap in general.
[15:32:32] <LeelooMinai> Unless you score some from godd source.
[15:32:48] <zeeshan> ive been looking for 3awg THHN for a while now
[15:32:54] <zeeshan> cant find some under 3.58/m
[15:32:58] <LeelooMinai> zeeshan: Anything neat you bought from that automationdirect?
[15:33:37] <LeelooMinai> I see that they have "accessories" for those GS2 VFDs - and they list EMI filters and RF filter
[15:33:45] <zeeshan> http://www.automationdirect.com/adc/Shopping/Catalog/Terminal_Blocks/Screwless_DIN-Rail_Terminal_Blocks/Double-level_Terminal_Blocks_-a-_Accessories
[15:33:46] <zeeshan> bought those
[15:34:16] <LeelooMinai> Seem expensive... whathever they are:)
[15:34:34] <zeeshan> youre right they are expensive new :(
[15:34:41] <zeeshan> i found a local surplus in hamilton
[15:34:46] <zeeshan> i picked those same things up made by ABB
[15:34:48] <zeeshan> for $5 for 10
[15:34:58] <LeelooMinai> lol
[15:35:09] <zeeshan> theyre used though
[15:35:15] <zeeshan> lovely industrial smell to them
[15:35:54] <zeeshan> http://www.automationdirect.com/adc/Shopping/Catalog/Circuit_Protection_-z-_Fuses_-z-_Disconnects/Fuses_-a-_Fuse_Holders/Fuse_Holders,_Fuse_Blocks_-a-_Accessories/Midget_and_Class_CC_Fuse_Holders,_Fuse_Blocks,_-a-_Accessories/EB1P100M3
[15:35:57] <zeeshan> i bought this from here too
[15:36:01] <zeeshan> i could not find this anywhere locally..
[15:36:06] <zeeshan> its a copper bus bar
[15:36:11] <zeeshan> that bolts into your fuse holders
[15:36:19] <zeeshan> and is insulated..
[15:36:54] <LeelooMinai> My setup right now does not have any fuses.
[15:37:34] <zeeshan> it depends on how youve got it wired
[15:37:44] <zeeshan> the main coming to my enclosure is 3awg , 100A
[15:37:55] <zeeshan> so to avoid running 3awg to each power supply
[15:38:13] <zeeshan> i distribute it to that comb bus bar
[15:38:16] <zeeshan> which powers each fuse holder
[15:38:30] <LeelooMinai> Right, but you know - 100A is a bit more than my CNC will use:)
[15:38:35] <zeeshan> on my lathe which sees 30A
[15:38:37] <zeeshan> 230v
[15:38:44] <zeeshan> im just running 10awg everywhere
[15:38:46] <zeeshan> cause its cheap enough :)
[15:38:51] <zeeshan> 10 or 12.
[15:38:52] <zeeshan> i forget
[15:39:07] <zeeshan> so fuses are kinda useless there..
[15:39:21] <zeeshan> i only have 1 fuse for the toriodal supply cause it has no internal protection
[15:42:14] <LeelooMinai> Hmm, I wonder if I will need some strange additions to that VFD drive.
[15:42:50] <LeelooMinai> There's a lot of stuff in the "accessories" section
[15:43:10] <LeelooMinai> But probably for motors - like those breaking resistors I assume
[15:44:34] <zeeshan> i dont think you really need all of them
[15:44:34] <zeeshan> lol
[15:44:43] <zeeshan> the braking resistor is nice to have
[15:44:46] <LeelooMinai> I know not all of them, but some?
[15:44:49] <zeeshan> but new thseo things are expensive
[15:44:54] <LeelooMinai> Then it would costly/
[15:45:01] <LeelooMinai> get*
[15:45:13] <zeeshan> lemme show you a typical diagram
[15:45:19] <zeeshan> w/ all accessories of a vfd
[15:46:10] <LeelooMinai> I am already scared
[15:46:31] <zeeshan> http://i.imgur.com/gOOCyhM.png
[15:46:38] <LeelooMinai> Will probably need to save next half a year for that stuff
[15:46:41] <zeeshan> thats how industry does it..
[15:46:45] <zeeshan> is it all necessary.. no
[15:48:11] <LeelooMinai> Ok, so... for 1.5kW AC spindle - what of that I really need?
[15:48:34] <zeeshan> on the vfd to motor side
[15:48:46] <zeeshan> instead of having a output noise filter, radio noise filter, reactor blah blah
[15:48:52] <zeeshan> if you keep your cable run short
[15:49:06] <zeeshan> you won't need the reactor
[15:49:17] <LeelooMinai> And shie3lded I assume
[15:49:17] <zeeshan> short being less than 10 m , some other manuals say 12m
[15:49:28] <zeeshan> yes
[15:49:31] <zeeshan> just use a shielded cable.
[15:49:35] <LeelooMinai> lol, my room is like 5 m accross:)
[15:49:42] <zeeshan> on the input side
[15:49:42] <LeelooMinai> And the cable will be 1m or so
[15:50:02] <zeeshan> they say that haramonics going into the primary is bad
[15:50:07] <zeeshan> but honestly, ive never had a single issue.
[15:50:12] <zeeshan> i have used 3hp, 2hp, 1hp vfds
[15:50:20] <zeeshan> with computers hooked up to the same outlet
[15:50:24] <zeeshan> and have never had an issue.
[15:50:40] <zeeshan> so i think they probably die off because of the input impedance of the cable
[15:50:46] <LeelooMinai> I see, I guess some filter there would be nice - maybe if I find something cheap then.
[15:51:09] <zeeshan> i honestly dont think computers are sensitive enough
[15:51:10] <LeelooMinai> Will those VFDs play nice with mesa?
[15:51:16] <zeeshan> that i dont know yet :)
[15:51:29] <zeeshan> but theyve played well with the probotix rf board
[15:51:35] <zeeshan> and my vfd is in the same box..
[15:51:47] <LeelooMinai> THey seem to have a lot of communication options - modbus and those digital controls
[15:51:49] <zeeshan> http://i.imgur.com/OOBcfTB.jpg
[15:52:10] <zeeshan> you see those red and white wires coming out
[15:52:12] <zeeshan> on the right side?
[15:52:16] <zeeshan> those are completely unshielded
[15:52:18] <LeelooMinai> That looks different.
[15:54:32] <zeeshan> personally, i wouldnt buy a vfd if there was no modbus
[15:54:37] <LeelooMinai> 1HP would bit a bit small for aluminum milloing spindle, right?
[15:54:50] <LeelooMinai> I mean 1HP VFD
[15:54:59] <zeeshan> you can make it work
[15:55:04] <zeeshan> if you dont take aggressive cuts
[15:55:19] <zeeshan> but your machine is so well built
[15:55:26] <zeeshan> if it was me, i'd put a 2hp spindle on it.
[15:55:33] <LeelooMinai> 110V outlet is what, I think 15A max, so maybe 1600watt - that's 2HP?
[15:55:35] <zeeshan> because it won't flex under the extra cutting forces
[15:55:59] <LeelooMinai> Well, I can put spindles, but I am limited by the outlets really.
[15:56:24] <LeelooMinai> Since running 220V to my room is too expensive.
[15:56:40] <zeeshan> take over the basement :)
[15:57:00] <LeelooMinai> E, no... I want it in my room:)
[15:57:34] <zeeshan> about your q of 2hp
[15:57:36] <zeeshan> i dont thinkso
[15:57:45] <zeeshan> since you're driving a 3 phase spindle
[15:57:47] <zeeshan> from single phase
[15:57:57] <zeeshan> you gotta divide that number by sqrt of 3
[15:58:18] <LeelooMinai> What number?
[15:58:27] <zeeshan> the 1600watt.
[15:58:32] <zeeshan> 15*110 / sqrt 3
[15:58:44] <zeeshan> that will be the maximum output of a vfd..
[15:59:14] <zeeshan> 1 1/4 hp
[15:59:22] <LeelooMinai> Well, but they convert one phase to 3 inside...
[15:59:34] <zeeshan> yes
[15:59:40] <zeeshan> in doing so, you use more power
[16:00:10] <zeeshan> if you look at some books for polyphase circuits
[16:00:32] <zeeshan> they commonly use 3 phase wye circuit
[16:00:39] <LeelooMinai> Ok, I understand there are losses, but shouldn't power with 1 phase translate to sum of 2 phases on the output?
[16:00:45] <LeelooMinai> 3*
[16:01:25] <DaViruz> sqrt(3) doesn't really come into play in this case
[16:01:49] <LeelooMinai> I think it does only in rectification case
[16:01:50] <zeeshan> DaViruz: explain why a 3 ph vfd needs to be doubled in size.
[16:02:07] <zeeshan> when running of single phase
[16:02:28] <DaViruz> because of uneven loading in the input rectifiers
[16:02:48] <zeeshan> anyway if you check this out
[16:02:49] <zeeshan> http://phasetechnologies.com/phaseconverterinfo/phaseconverter_deltawye.htm
[16:02:59] <zeeshan> it explains the sqrt3 factor.
[16:03:02] <zeeshan> in the first 3 paragraphs
[16:03:21] <zeeshan> relationship of current is same.
[16:04:22] <LeelooMinai> But 100V outlet -> 2000w 110V->220V transformer -> 1HP VFD -> 2.2kw 0-400Hz spindle, sounds more or less sane?
[16:04:26] <DaViruz> yes, but that doesn't apply in this case
[16:04:34] <DaViruz> you dont just lose power, especially not that much
[16:05:54] <DaViruz> as long as you don't overload the transformer sure
[16:06:38] <LeelooMinai> Wouldn't it blow the fuse on the 100V side if overloaded?
[16:06:44] <LeelooMinai> 110*
[16:07:00] <DaViruz> it would if everything is dimensioned correctly
[16:07:09] <DaViruz> (the fuse being everything)
[16:07:27] <DaViruz> i made a mess. yes, if the fuse is dimensioned correctly
[16:08:04] <LeelooMinai> Well, there are fuses in the main breaker box for all the outlets - I assume one would just blow:)
[16:08:24] <LeelooMinai> Or do I want something close to the transformer/whole setup?
[16:08:41] <DaViruz> you want something that makes sure the transformer can't be overloaded
[16:09:00] <LeelooMinai> So something between it and the VFD?
[16:09:02] <zeeshan> if you look at a typical vfd manufacturers incoming side
[16:09:05] <zeeshan> power consumption
[16:09:08] <zeeshan> you'll see what im talkking about
[16:09:53] <LeelooMinai> zeeshan: I don't think there may be too large losses or it would just overheat and die...
[16:09:59] <zeeshan> its not about losses
[16:10:01] <zeeshan> its simple math
[16:10:02] <DaViruz> i've looked at plenty, i work with vfd's and three phase power every day
[16:10:04] <zeeshan> going from single phase to 3 phase
[16:10:11] <zeeshan> the relationship is sqrt of 3.
[16:10:19] <zeeshan> and vise versa
[16:10:24] <LeelooMinai> zeeshan: Well, it's all about loss - either you lose power and it becomes heat or not:)
[16:11:00] <DaViruz> that relationship isn't about converting between 1ph and 3ph, it's about the relationship of one phase out of three phases
[16:11:09] <zeeshan> http://www.automationdirect.com/static/specs/gs2drive.pdf
[16:11:13] <zeeshan> just look at the second page
[16:11:14] <zeeshan> of your vfd
[16:11:20] <zeeshan> why is the input current rated at 16A
[16:11:22] <zeeshan> for your 1hp vfd?
[16:11:27] <zeeshan> if it can output 2hp.
[16:11:30] <zeeshan> at 110v 15a.
[16:11:51] <DaViruz> if we're talking three phase current vs one phase current, then sure, we have a sqrt(3) factor
[16:12:04] <DaViruz> but the power remains equal
[16:12:05] <zeeshan> that is what we have been talking about
[16:12:19] <zeeshan> if yuou're limited to 15A on your primary
[16:12:21] <DaViruz> no, you used it to derate power, which is wrong
[16:12:25] <zeeshan> single phase
[16:12:31] <zeeshan> and you want to figure out what 3 phase load you can drive
[16:12:35] <zeeshan> you divide that number by sqrt 3.
[16:12:48] <zeeshan> aka 8.7A
[16:12:50] <DaViruz> yes, the three phase current versus the one phase current
[16:12:56] <zeeshan> 8.7a * 230 v =1.25hp
[16:12:57] <DaViruz> not the three phase power versus one phase power
[16:13:14] <zeeshan> sigh
[16:13:16] <zeeshan> if voltage is constant
[16:13:21] <LeelooMinai> zeeshan: Well, 16A vs 4.2A *3 = 12.6A
[16:13:22] <zeeshan> the power will be scaled up by that facor too
[16:13:35] <DaViruz> zeeshan: no, not when you have three phases available
[16:13:43] <zeeshan> LeelooMinai: youre forgetting its going to 230v too
[16:13:45] <zeeshan> from 110v.
[16:13:54] <DaViruz> that's why you have the sqrt(3) factor in the first place
[16:14:02] <zeeshan> DaViruz: in this situation
[16:14:04] <zeeshan> it scales.
[16:14:08] <zeeshan> im not talking about universal formulas
[16:14:18] <LeelooMinai> zeeshan: They even gibe you watt loss - only 46 watt
[16:14:34] <zeeshan> LeelooMinai: ill work that 1hp vfd example with you
[16:14:38] <zeeshan> 110V @ 16A is what they say
[16:14:51] <LeelooMinai> Right, as I said 1600watt or so
[16:14:52] <zeeshan> 1760W max power.
[16:15:10] <zeeshan> if for some reason you were ouputting 3 phase 110v
[16:15:17] <zeeshan> you'd devide the 16A by sqrt 3
[16:15:26] <zeeshan> about 9.25A
[16:15:37] <zeeshan> but since you're stepping up to 240v
[16:15:42] <zeeshan> you gotta divide that number by 2.
[16:15:52] <zeeshan> about 4.6A
[16:16:03] <zeeshan> which is very close to the number they rate their output of the vfd of 4.2A.
[16:16:13] <zeeshan> they are being conservative, and likely accounting for losses.
[16:16:26] <zeeshan> so to your original question
[16:16:33] <zeeshan> if you have 110V, 15A max. 1600W
[16:16:37] <zeeshan> can you drive a 2hp 3 phase 240v motor
[16:16:38] <zeeshan> no.
[16:18:06] <LeelooMinai> Well... I would say, I almost can...
[16:18:32] <zeeshan> there is a good reason
[16:18:38] <zeeshan> why you don't see a 110v vfd
[16:18:42] <zeeshan> outputting 2hp 3 phase
[16:18:50] <zeeshan> because you can't do it on a regular 15a circuit
[16:19:11] <zeeshan> you likely need a 30A circuit
[16:19:12] <Deejay> gn8
[16:19:24] <zeeshan> anyway, i dont wanna argue, the math is there
[16:19:28] <zeeshan> you can do what you want with it :)
[16:19:43] <zeeshan> worst comes to worst, if you decide to run a 2hp vfd, with a transformer in between
[16:19:47] <LeelooMinai> zeeshan: Than how do you explain that 46 watt loss they quite?
[16:19:49] <zeeshan> you'll just trip your 15A breaker at max load
[16:19:58] <LeelooMinai> quote*
[16:20:10] <zeeshan> okay ill rework the example with exact numbers
[16:20:58] <zeeshan> required input power = 16a * 115V = 1840W
[16:21:21] <zeeshan> power loss @ max output 46W..
[16:21:34] <zeeshan> 1840-46 = 1794W
[16:22:02] <zeeshan> going from single phase to 3 phase is a I_threephase = I_singlephase / sqrt(3)
[16:22:26] <zeeshan> output voltage is 230V
[16:22:50] <zeeshan> I_single_phase = 1794/230V
[16:22:58] <zeeshan> 7.8A
[16:23:33] <zeeshan> my formula is wrong for this one: I_threephase = I_singlephase / sqrt(3)
[16:23:34] <zeeshan> should be
[16:23:43] <zeeshan> I_singlephase = I_threephase / sqrt(3)
[16:24:05] <zeeshan> 7.8/sqrt(3) = 7.8/1.732 = 4.5A
[16:24:24] <zeeshan> add a bit of conservative factor
[16:24:37] <zeeshan> because there is losses in the line between the motor and vfd
[16:24:39] <zeeshan> 4.2A
[16:24:54] <zeeshan> regardless, the 7.8A is well far away from the 4.2A number
[16:25:58] <zeeshan> LeelooMinai: i have a q for you
[16:26:02] <DaViruz> that's just wrong
[16:26:08] <zeeshan> DaViruz: ok
[16:26:09] <zeeshan> lol
[16:26:09] <DaViruz> you divided by sqrt(3) twice
[16:26:13] <zeeshan> no i didnt
[16:26:25] <DaViruz> no sorry
[16:26:26] <DaViruz> :I
[16:26:48] <zeeshan> if i got this shit wrong
[16:26:54] <zeeshan> im sure i've burned down some customers buildings
[16:26:55] <zeeshan> :-)
[16:26:55] <DaViruz> indeed that is correct
[16:27:14] <DaViruz> but that does not mean you lose 1/sqrt(3) of the power
[16:27:18] <zeeshan> youre right
[16:27:21] <zeeshan> power consumption is same
[16:27:36] <zeeshan> i shouldnt have stated it like that
[16:27:37] <DaViruz> input and output current will have a sqrt(3) relation
[16:27:42] <zeeshan> i dunno, i work out the math a messed up way
[16:27:55] <zeeshan> i know at some point i need to do a sqrt3 correction factor
[16:28:09] <zeeshan> sometimes i do it at the total output power
[16:28:12] <zeeshan> sometimes at the current itself
[16:30:25] <zeeshan> LeelooMinai: your bedroom -- is it all connected to one 15A circuit breaker like most bedrooms?
[16:30:35] <zeeshan> or are you planning to run an extension cord from another room/hallway
[16:31:14] <LeelooMinai> zeeshan: I think all outlets are on the same breaker - at most 2 - would need to verify it.
[16:31:35] <zeeshan> my room connected bathroom and bedroom are on seperate breakers :)
[16:31:58] <zeeshan> so i run an extension cord from the washroom sometimes
[16:32:12] <LeelooMinai> I once mapped all the outlets to breakers, but that map is burried somewhere in papers.
[16:33:04] <zeeshan> you know whats scary?
[16:33:13] <zeeshan> when i run the space heater, and then go to the basement and touch the breaker body
[16:33:14] <zeeshan> its warm
[16:33:31] <zeeshan> i can see why space heaters cause fires @ thousands of homes every year
[16:33:43] <zeeshan> they give your copper wires a good work out
[16:33:43] <DaViruz> it's supposed to be, that's how they work :P
[16:33:55] <LeelooMinai> Space heater like some resistive heater?
[16:33:58] <zeeshan> yes
[16:34:12] <zeeshan> its eating 13.6A of current
[16:34:23] <LeelooMinai> It' basically like an electric oven - what do you expect:)
[16:34:43] <zeeshan> i dunno i just get alarmed when i touch a breaker body thats running at 40C
[16:34:52] <zeeshan> usually they are nice and cool :)
[16:34:58] <zeeshan> even the 60A breaker for the welder
[16:35:52] <zeeshan> btw, i could not find shielded cable in bulk
[16:36:01] <zeeshan> but i did find 25 ft of a patch cable that was stp
[16:36:08] <zeeshan> cut it open and it was stranded.
[16:36:09] <zeeshan> woohoo
[16:36:43] <zeeshan> i can't find a good local source that carries "exotic cables"
[16:36:50] <zeeshan> have you found one?
[16:37:00] <LeelooMinai> zeeshan: Well, you could also pull the cables off that shielded stp and insert high-current ones:)
[16:37:18] <zeeshan> hey..
[16:37:21] <zeeshan> that... is a GOOD idea.
[16:37:32] <zeeshan> i have lots of that non twisted shielded cable
[16:37:32] <LeelooMinai> If it works - not tested it:)
[16:37:44] <zeeshan> i can pull out the straight conductors
[16:37:48] <zeeshan> and try to fish in the twisted pair?
[16:37:54] <zeeshan> or twist the pair myself
[16:37:56] <zeeshan> and try to fish it back in
[16:38:12] <zeeshan> might be easier with a cable that has 4 conductors in it currently
[16:38:14] <zeeshan> but i only put back 2
[16:38:27] <LeelooMinai> Worth a try
[16:38:31] <zeeshan> gonna try right now
[16:42:08] <zeeshan> haha
[16:42:12] <zeeshan> yea , i dont know
[16:42:20] <zeeshan> pulling a twisted pair out of a 4 foot cat5
[16:42:25] <zeeshan> doesn't work too well :)
[16:42:39] <LeelooMinai> zeeshan: Actually, that part I mastered and it works:)
[16:42:46] <zeeshan> how do you do it?
[16:42:51] <zeeshan> im just ripping the insulation off the cable.
[16:43:06] <LeelooMinai> zeeshan: clamp one end of the cable to a vise, so when you pull out the wires the whole length is straight
[16:43:10] <zeeshan> OH
[16:43:58] <LeelooMinai> Just don't clamp the pair you are pulling out of course:p
[16:46:02] <zeeshan> youre right
[16:46:03] <zeeshan> it worked
[16:46:10] <zeeshan> thats the trick, doing it as a whole
[16:46:34] <LeelooMinai> Right
[16:47:09] <zeeshan> do you know if the +/-10v analog signal
[16:47:12] <zeeshan> if that is a differential signal?
[16:47:33] <LeelooMinai> Signal from where?
[16:47:38] <zeeshan> 7i77 to servo drive
[16:48:06] <LeelooMinai> I don't know - on my mesa I was only figuring out digital signals
[16:48:23] <PCW> Depends on the drive, some drives have differential and other have single ended inputs
[16:48:30] <zeeshan> mine has +ref
[16:48:31] <zeeshan> and - ref
[16:48:38] <PCW> (differential is better)
[16:48:46] <zeeshan> and shows an opamp
[16:49:10] <zeeshan> one the -ref leg being a reference voltage
[16:49:33] <PCW> so thats differential input
[16:49:49] <zeeshan> they also say the source of the signal must have an impedance of less than 2kohm
[16:49:57] <zeeshan> i remember reading 7i77 is less than 2000 ohm
[16:50:03] <zeeshan> or equal to
[16:50:22] <zeeshan> since it's differential, would it be sufficient to run two wires next to each other of equal length
[16:50:34] <zeeshan> without twisting them.. and in a shield to reduce external noise
[16:50:46] <zeeshan> because since it's differential, there will be no cross talk between the two wires?
[16:50:49] <PCW> the 7I77 has a output impedance of less than 1 Ohm (but has a minimum load impedance of 2000 Ohms)
[16:51:41] <PCW> twisted is good for differential signals so whatever happens to one signal happens to the other
[16:52:04] <zeeshan> this is my problem
[16:52:18] <zeeshan> my shielded conductors are non twisted.
[16:52:35] <zeeshan> i have very little of cat5 shielded.
[16:52:59] <zeeshan> i have lots of cat5 regular,from which i pulled twisted wires from. but realized they are solid conductor.
[16:53:04] <PCW> 2 wire shielded is fine for the analog
[16:53:20] <zeeshan> what about GND and ENA+
[16:53:49] <zeeshan> can i just run 4c shielded (non twisted pair)
[16:53:55] <PCW> I would'nt worry about them
[16:53:56] <zeeshan> and wire up ena+, gnd, ref+ ref-
[16:54:02] <zeeshan> all in the same shield
[16:54:16] <PCW> they should not need to be shielded
[16:54:32] <zeeshan> i dont have any 2c shielde d: only 4w
[16:54:52] <PCW> thats probably close enough
[16:54:54] <zeeshan> i guess i can pull the 2 extra conductors out of the cable and run them outside
[16:55:50] <PCW> no need, the enable is static when running so should not be an issue run along with the analog signals
[16:55:54] <zeeshan> from my talk yesterday with toasty, since the 5v is static
[16:55:56] <zeeshan> yes
[16:56:11] <zeeshan> thank you :)
[16:56:24] <zeeshan> this means i can get this wired before christmas. woohoo
[16:57:17] <PCW> the analog signals are typically not terribly sensitive because of the relatively low bandwidth (<2 KHz or so)
[16:58:04] <PCW> and the differential inputs
[16:58:41] <zeeshan> i was being extra precautious cause i read that analog sine waves are more suspetible to noise
[16:58:45] <zeeshan> vs square waves
[16:58:52] <zeeshan> (data)
[17:00:03] <zeeshan> one more general q before i can get wired
[17:00:24] <zeeshan> i crimped some molex type kk pins to 24AWG wire. it takes about 8lb of force to pull them out
[17:00:27] <zeeshan> is this normal?
[17:00:46] <zeeshan> by pulling them out, i mean the conductor rips off the pin.
[17:00:54] <PCW> main thin is keep them away from power/servomotor/VFD wiring since these will be the main noise radiators
[17:01:09] <zeeshan> PCW: unfortuantely, servo drives are right next to the vfds
[17:01:10] <zeeshan> haha
[17:01:21] <zeeshan> but i am going to be running shielded cable for the output of the vfds.
[17:01:47] <zeeshan> https://www.flickr.com/photos/128539016@N05/16051150846/
[17:01:51] <PCW> well _dont_ run the analog signals parallel to VFD/Servmotor/power wiring
[17:01:52] <zeeshan> https://www.flickr.com/photos/128539016@N05/15881152719/in/photostream/
[17:02:01] <zeeshan> yes, it will be a good 8" away from it
[17:02:10] <zeeshan> but if you can see the orange connectors on the servo drives.
[17:02:39] <zeeshan> the closest one is about 6" away from the motor leads that will be shielded.
[17:03:35] <zeeshan> im planning run the analog/enable wires above the fans
[17:03:54] <PCW> Where we typically see problems (also with encoders) is when people have neatly bundled a cable tied power and low level signal cables together
[17:04:10] <zeeshan> ah
[17:04:30] <PCW> making a nice transformer
[17:04:33] <zeeshan> that will cause magnetic coupling?
[17:04:39] <PCW> yes
[17:05:04] <PCW> normal shielding doesnt help this much
[17:05:17] <zeeshan> all my control wires (limt switches, modbus) etc are bundled together
[17:06:10] <zeeshan> they meet for about 1" to pass through the big hole between the two enclosures
[17:06:56] <PCW> that should be OK (modbus is differential so not terribly susceptible to noise)
[17:07:48] <zeeshan> by power wires you mean servo motor wires, primary wires (AC wires)
[17:07:51] <zeeshan> right?
[17:07:57] <PCW> Yes
[17:08:11] <zeeshan> dc shouldn't be too bad because it doesn't fluctuate..
[17:08:29] <zeeshan> unless you i guess hit a limit switch
[17:09:29] <zeeshan> i was watching an experiment on magnetic coupling. if you run ================================ two wires like this. L1 N
[17:09:33] <zeeshan> you get no magnetic field
[17:09:48] <zeeshan> but if you run em like this ---------------------------========================== , you get a magnetic field
[17:10:19] <zeeshan> because in the second case, the mag fields don't cancel out
[17:10:40] <zeeshan> ok must wire, less talk :)
[17:10:45] <PCW> well you do get a filed in the parallel case but its mostly confined etween the wires
[17:11:01] <PCW> fieild and between
[17:11:10] <zeeshan> ah
[17:12:45] <PCW> same reason for twisted pairs (keep the magnetic radiation = susceptibility to a minimum)
[17:14:14] <PCW> (also keeps the capacitance per length constant so has a constant impedance)
[17:26:35] <furrywolf> I assume the answer is "not a chance in hell", but is there any chance of using linuxcnc to control my flashcut step generator box, so I don't need to redo all the electrics to make my sherline not unpleasant to use?
[17:28:24] <Tom_itx> furrywolf i don't think you can
[17:28:34] <Tom_itx> yours is newer however so it might be ok
[17:28:46] <furrywolf> no, my flashcut box is ancient.
[17:28:50] <Tom_itx> i tried it and found the steps were way too slow for my satisfaction
[17:28:53] <furrywolf> which means I'm stuck with their ancient software
[17:29:00] <Tom_itx> what model?
[17:29:18] <Tom_itx> i was using 1.4.1 when i converted
[17:29:24] <furrywolf> if you want to use newer software with the box, you need a new eeprom chip... which they'll helpfully sell you for only $300.
[17:29:25] <Tom_itx> software
[17:29:32] <furrywolf> ancient. :)
[17:29:38] <furrywolf> I don't remember the model. it's in storage.
[17:29:43] <Tom_itx> oh
[17:29:48] <furrywolf> it's old enough the oldest download on their site, 1.6, won't run it.
[17:29:51] <Tom_itx> i was gonna go out and look at mine...
[17:29:54] <Tom_itx> i'll wait
[17:30:17] <furrywolf> I personally find $300 for a $1 chip rather offensive...
[17:30:18] <Tom_itx> anyway, i tried mine and wasn't very happy with it
[17:30:38] <Tom_itx> the new ones are usb interface
[17:30:42] <Tom_itx> mine was serial
[17:30:42] <furrywolf> just to get bugfixes, not a new major version.
[17:30:46] <furrywolf> mine is serial too
[17:30:56] <Tom_itx> likely very similar then
[17:31:03] <Tom_itx> it's sitting on a shelf.
[17:31:10] <furrywolf> it works fine... the software is just BUGGY.
[17:31:18] <Tom_itx> mine worked fine
[17:31:19] <Tom_itx> just slow
[17:31:30] <Tom_itx> i dumped their 24v psu for a 48v one
[17:31:39] <Tom_itx> got gecko drives
[17:31:41] <furrywolf> the sherline mill and the tiny steppers on it don't need anything fancy... I lost steps well before I hit any driver limitations.
[17:31:45] <Tom_itx> and bigger steppers
[17:31:58] <Tom_itx> my original steppers are in a box too
[17:32:06] <furrywolf> heh
[17:32:16] <furrywolf> sounds like you need to build some form of mini-size machine with the spare parts! :P
[17:32:28] <Tom_itx> probably could now
[17:32:43] <furrywolf> 3d printers are popular for some reason, and are very non-demanding...
[17:33:41] <furrywolf> personally, if I ever felt the need to make weak, porus plastic parts, I'd just mount an extruder head to a mt3 blank, lock the spindle, and use my already existing perfectly functional x/y/z stage instead of building a new one. heh.
[17:34:10] <Tom_itx> http://www.kelinginc.net/KL23H2100-30-4B.pdf
[17:34:17] <Tom_itx> that's the steppers i got
[17:34:36] <Tom_itx> err... no mine are different
[17:34:44] <furrywolf> for what machine?
[17:34:50] <Tom_itx> sherline
[17:35:08] <Tom_itx> 382 oz in though
[17:35:26] <Tom_itx> originals were something like 160
[17:35:28] <furrywolf> ah
[17:35:30] <furrywolf> mine has whatever it came with... I haven't done any major modifications to it.
[17:35:40] <furrywolf> http://fw.bushytails.net/mill03.jpg should be a photo of it, but my internet connection is sucking too badly right now to check.
[17:35:47] <Tom_itx> time to start
[17:36:22] <furrywolf> nah, my current project is the shoptask... the sherline is adequate as it is. it's just too little to do much with... 3" of Y travel and all...
[17:36:41] <Tom_itx> http://tom-itx.no-ip.biz:81/~webpage/cnc/psu/psu_index.php
[17:36:51] <Tom_itx> there's the new supply/driver box
[17:36:54] <furrywolf> finally got it to load... yep, the flashcut box is visible in that image. I suspect it's the same one you have.
[17:37:32] <Tom_itx> mine is the same yes
[17:37:53] <furrywolf> let me guess, you used spare parts? I can't imagine you used three transformers and 9 (or more) caps for the hell of it. :)
[17:38:04] <Tom_itx> all surplus yes
[17:38:14] <Tom_itx> to get the capacity i wanted
[17:38:18] <Tom_itx> small caps but more
[17:38:40] <furrywolf> my shoptask driver box will have a 40vac 650va transformer, a 50a bridge, a 37,000uf 75v cap...
[17:39:16] <furrywolf> the cap is about 3" round and 6" tall
[17:39:45] <Tom_itx> mb's use several for redundancy
[17:40:01] <Tom_itx> if one goes pop you have more
[17:40:08] <furrywolf> mb's?
[17:40:13] <Tom_itx> if yours goes pop, i'm not sure i wanna be around
[17:40:16] <Tom_itx> motherboards
[17:40:23] <furrywolf> ah
[17:40:57] <Tom_itx> anyway, i had those
[17:41:03] <Tom_itx> and they fit the bill
[17:41:09] <furrywolf> it's mostly just smoothing 60hz... shouldn't run hot.
[17:41:09] <furrywolf> the drivers have a 1000uf 100v cap on the leads to each one
[17:41:46] <Tom_itx> those were 2200 µF and measured 3300
[17:41:49] <Tom_itx> ea
[17:42:37] <furrywolf> I'm going for mostly cheap/used parts... geckos are expensive.
[17:42:56] <Tom_itx> those chinese ones are ok
[17:42:56] <furrywolf> I got some used centent drivers... made by the gecko guy, a long time ago.
[17:43:26] <furrywolf> I couldn't find chinese ones that did 10A/phase.
[17:43:31] <Tom_itx> i may take out a couple of those transformers
[17:43:36] <Tom_itx> i don't need em all for sure
[17:43:47] <Tom_itx> i was planning ahead for a bigger mill
[17:44:07] <furrywolf> yeah, I get the distinct impression your control box weighs twice as much as the entire sherline mill.
[17:44:20] <Tom_itx> the one in the flashcut is about 1/4 the size of one of those
[17:45:41] <furrywolf> I need to go rummage around the scrapyard for another heatsink... the one I got last time I was there is overkill. it's the size of all three drivers, which I wanted, but is >2" thick, which is completely unneeded.
[17:46:22] <Tom_itx> did you see the one i got at the scrap yard?
[17:46:39] <Tom_itx> http://tom-itx.no-ip.biz:81/~webpage/cnc/psu/heatsink_bulk.jpg
[17:46:46] <Tom_itx> about 6-8' piece
[17:46:54] <furrywolf> it was on a >100W RF amplifier, that apparantly put out a lot more heat than my drivers do. with my tests, the drivers only get lukewarm sitting on my workbench with no heatsinking at all!
[17:47:16] <furrywolf> aren't scrapyards fun? :)
[17:47:30] <Tom_itx> worked out perfect
[17:48:15] <Tom_itx> the drivers are mounted on the door with the heatsink out
[17:48:21] <furrywolf> the sherline's steppers are both undersized and underdriven... but I'll leave it that way for a while, as the shoptask will handle larger things.
[17:50:04] <Tom_itx> http://tom-itx.no-ip.biz:81/~webpage/cnc/new_pulleys/timing_pulley_index.php
[17:50:06] <furrywolf> I guess I'll swing by ratshack today and pick up one of their cap assortments... if my time is worth anything, it's cheaper to buy another bag of random caps than it is to attempt to locate any given cap in my storage unit...
[17:50:14] <furrywolf> recap the chinese breakout board
[17:50:16] <Tom_itx> that was my latest conversion before i blew my control boards
[17:50:39] <Tom_itx> http://tom-itx.no-ip.biz:81/~webpage/cnc/new_pulleys/spindle_enc2.jpg
[17:50:54] <Tom_itx> switched to timing belts and added a decent encoder to the spindle
[17:51:02] <Tom_itx> from the old printer one it had
[17:51:15] <furrywolf> I need to invent a spindle encoder for the lathe end of the shoptask.
[17:51:48] <Tom_itx> http://tom-itx.no-ip.biz:81/~webpage/motors/stepper6.jpg
[17:51:51] <Tom_itx> i started with that
[17:52:30] <furrywolf> that must have been a $$$ printer.
[17:52:37] <Tom_itx> no
[17:52:41] <furrywolf> because it both contained metal, and error detection.
[17:52:47] <Tom_itx> i'm not even sure what one it came off of
[17:53:45] <Tom_itx> http://tom-itx.no-ip.biz:81/~webpage/cnc/new_pulleys/old_pulley2.jpg
[17:53:53] <Tom_itx> turned the center out and mounted it to a collar
[17:55:22] <furrywolf> I might do something similar on the shoptask... there's a space inside the column for some feature mine doesn't have, that I might be able to cram an encoder into, on a shaft collar.
[17:55:46] <furrywolf> I'm guessing a spindle brake
[17:56:02] <Tom_itx> i made a smaller pulley for mine too
[17:56:09] <Tom_itx> i see you're using the original big one
[17:56:24] <Tom_itx> just seemed too slow for me
[17:56:40] <Tom_itx> they offer a high speed pulley but i wasn't gonna buy it
[17:56:55] <furrywolf> on the sherline? the motor doesn't have enough torque to run bits faster, unless they're tiny bits.
[17:57:04] <Tom_itx> i figured what the rpm was and what the original gave me and did some calcs and made one
[17:59:56] <Tom_itx> i generally use smaller carbide cutters
[18:00:34] <Tom_itx> seldom go over 3/8"
[18:00:37] <furrywolf> I found the sherline generally too small for my needs... but now that I have the shoptask, I might set the sherline up more for small precision work, rather than trying to make it pretend to be a big mill.
[18:00:40] <Tom_itx> usually much smaller
[18:01:00] <Tom_itx> i use it mostly now to play with linuxcnc
[18:02:12] <furrywolf> you have the larger multi-directional mill, don't you?
[18:03:25] <Tom_itx> yeah
[18:03:32] <Tom_itx> i wanted more Y travel
[18:03:41] <Tom_itx> that's the _only_ reason i got it
[18:03:48] <furrywolf> I suspect I'd like it a lot more than my sherline. heh.
[18:04:03] <Tom_itx> it's not as rigid
[18:04:18] <furrywolf> the 3" of Y travel, with the column jammed against the table so you can't even overhang a part, is really annoying.
[18:04:34] <Tom_itx> i get about 7"
[18:05:00] <furrywolf> my shoptask only has 3" of Z travel, which I'm expecting to find annoying too, but not as annoying.
[18:07:40] <furrywolf> how well does your touch probe work?
[18:08:00] <Tom_itx> not bad but it could have been made better
[18:08:53] <furrywolf> I've never really needed one, but there are always "make a part identical to this one, but without the big chunk broken off" projects where it might come in handy.
[18:09:00] <Tom_itx> i didn't have a good way to drill the 120 deg holes or the ball bearing mounts
[18:09:11] <Tom_itx> so they're not perfect
[18:10:06] <Tom_itx> did you see the video of it working?
[18:10:16] <furrywolf> no
[18:10:26] <furrywolf> my connection and video don't get along well.
[18:10:38] <furrywolf> (download time >10x playback time)
[18:11:33] <Tom_itx> http://youtu.be/SGuV86Su430
[18:11:45] <furrywolf> youtube being the worst.
[18:14:31] <furrywolf> your mill is faster than mine. lol
[18:17:16] <Tom_itx> it's the new drivers
[18:18:13] <Tom_itx> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XhU7S8kifJ4&feature=youtu.be
[18:20:05] <furrywolf> that'll take 5mins to download...
[19:53:37] <os1r1s> Tom_itx: What speed is that?
[19:53:44] <os1r1s> In x/y
[20:09:15] <Tom_itx> os1r1s, i can't remember what the feed was
[20:09:27] <Tom_itx> maybe 60-80 ipm
[20:09:37] <os1r1s> Tom_itx: That seems quick. Stock leadscrews?
[20:09:45] <os1r1s> Which driver are you using
[20:09:47] <Tom_itx> yes
[20:09:53] <Tom_itx> gecko 203v
[20:10:08] <Tom_itx> no load...
[20:10:22] <os1r1s> I start to get a weird resonance on mine above 40
[20:10:30] <os1r1s> Using a G540
[20:11:01] <os1r1s> Maybe I should push it up to 60-80 and see if it stutters
[20:16:44] <os1r1s> Tom_itx: This might interest you ... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UOKeW9JOs_A
[20:59:36] <Tom_itx> nice but i wonder what it costs
[21:06:01] <os1r1s> Tom_itx: $700+
[21:08:53] <Tom_L> http://www.cnccat.com/index.php?id=2&productid=1616&catid=89&subcatid=&lang=en
[21:09:48] <Tom_L> https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/19659206/affordable-sherline-atc-spindle-head
[21:10:05] <os1r1s> The first one is the spindle that I have
[21:10:21] <os1r1s> But by the time you add sk15 holders, collets, etc, etc it adds up quick
[21:10:37] <Tom_L> http://www.usovo.de/shop/Milling-spindles-accessories/Exchange-spindle-with-tool-changer/UniMill-deluxe-Toolchanger/Toolchanger-Spindle-Sherline-UniMill-the-CoolTool::462.html
[21:10:41] <os1r1s> I wanted a second spindle housing so that I didn't modify the first.
[21:11:05] <Tom_L> the mill is hardly worth all that tooling
[21:11:17] <Tom_L> it would be money better spent on a heavier mill
[21:12:02] <os1r1s> Tom_L: Depends on what you are trying to do. I don't have room for a larger mill at this time. And I want it more automated.
[21:28:40] <XXCoder1> Tom_itx: interesting
[21:28:47] <XXCoder1> wonder if guy already sent rewards out
[21:32:35] <os1r1s> XXCoder1: He sells those spindles for $900 on his website, dalecnc.com
[21:32:49] <XXCoder1> wow that is awesome https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IcVv1So1n_8
[21:33:04] <XXCoder1> os1r1s: interesting
[21:33:55] <XXCoder1> it would make for very nice router head
[21:34:20] <XXCoder1> oh my video link? guy used cmm to make copy of object
[21:34:41] <XXCoder1> including soap bottle apparentl
[21:35:38] <XXCoder1> oh it uses regular cnc machine - custom collet with probe wow
[21:36:47] <XXCoder1> http://www.centroidcnc.com/cnc_digitizing.html
[21:38:08] <XXCoder1> $4200 for collet probe ouch
[22:08:39] <furrywolf> hrmm, have I been disconnected for a while? I replied to os1r1s's weird resonance...
[22:09:02] <os1r1s> furrywolf: Did you?
[22:09:06] <os1r1s> I did not see it
[22:09:30] <furrywolf> > weird resonance is a common problem with low-quality drivers.... but don't the geckos have anti-resonance circuitry?
[22:09:51] <os1r1s> furrywolf: It does/should. I'll try to push it higher and see what happens
[22:12:55] <furrywolf> what microstep size are you using? if you have spare step frequency, try increasing it too.
[22:14:25] <os1r1s> furrywolf: The G540 auto adjusts stepping between 1/10 and full
[22:15:53] <furrywolf> hrmm. in that case, who knows. :)
[22:15:57] <os1r1s> I'll try to bump the frequency
[22:16:33] <furrywolf> tell mariss your g540 makes your motors resonate and see what he says. :)
[22:22:52] <furrywolf> on an unrelated note, how much of my e-stop should I implement in hardware? I can do anything from just toggling an input pin, to cutting power to the stepper drivers and spindle..
[22:23:53] <SpeedEvil> furrywolf: Thermite.
[22:23:55] <furrywolf> I finally have a mill big enough to need one... my other one would have a hard time drawing blood if you tried.
[22:23:57] <ve7it> furrywolf, http://members.shaw.ca/SWSTUFF/spindle-encoder.html my shoptask lathe spindle encoder
[22:24:52] <roycroft> i would strongly recomment that you have a big panic button that kills power to everything
[22:24:58] <roycroft> and then hope you never have to use it
[22:25:10] <Tom_itx> mine is 10
[22:25:19] <roycroft> but that's what the 'e' in e-stop means
[22:25:19] <Tom_itx> woops backscroll got me
[22:25:32] <Tom_itx> 10 microstep default on gecko 203v
[22:25:51] <furrywolf> I have a big red mushroom switch... it used to be the emergency quench switch on a mri machine.
[22:26:08] <roycroft> i have a big red mushroom switch on my brewing control panel
[22:26:29] <roycroft> i run 250vac/50a through that panel
[22:26:44] <furrywolf> my mill is probably going to be a letdown for it... it used to cause loud noises and gas clouds and people running, and now all it's going to do is stop a couple motors...
[22:26:48] <roycroft> and that switch kills everything inside the panel from the main power contactor on
[22:27:08] <Tom_itx> furrywolf, maybe it will enjoy the easy life
[22:29:02] <furrywolf> ve7it: heh, I saw that googling a few months back... hrmm... you have both cnc and an intact threading gearbox?
[23:03:55] <XXCoder1> https://portland.craigslist.org/wsc/mad/4797758660.html
[23:03:57] <XXCoder1> not bad
[23:04:02] <XXCoder1> too bad ober 2 hours drive!
[23:16:32] <furrywolf> I drive 4:15 each way to pick up a generator a couple weeks ago
[23:16:38] <furrywolf> drove
[23:17:01] <roycroft> i may be heading up to hillsboro on saturday to pick up something else off cl
[23:26:59] <furrywolf_> I wish there were surplus stores around here... have to drive about five hours to find one.
[23:28:44] <XXCoder1> yeah
[23:28:52] <XXCoder1> hard to find anything surplus around here
[23:30:32] <roycroft> i've been meaning to check out that surplus place for ages
[23:30:39] <roycroft> they post in cl all the time
[23:31:13] <roycroft> if i go up to hillsboro on saturday i'll probably at least check the place out
[23:31:31] <XXCoder1> yeah they apparently has lots 8020
[23:31:39] <roycroft> and i need some
[23:31:46] <roycroft> although i'm not sure what i need yet
[23:31:49] <XXCoder1> too bad youre not at same side of hillsbnore as me!
[23:31:57] <XXCoder1> im at tacoma
[23:32:05] <roycroft> yes, i recall
[23:32:26] <roycroft> i usually take highway 99 up there
[23:32:36] <roycroft> but with all the rain we've had lately i'm not sure - i might have to take i5
[23:32:46] <XXCoder1> I usually use i5 to work but hwy 99 to home
[23:32:50] <roycroft> i hate freeways
[23:33:45] <furrywolf> I don't mind freeways, as long as there's not many other cars on them.
[23:34:00] <roycroft> i prefer country roads
[23:34:12] <furrywolf> I'm a country wolfy. heh.
[23:34:16] <XXCoder1> lol
[23:34:20] <roycroft> the journey is as important as the destination
[23:35:09] <roycroft> i currently drive
[23:35:14] <roycroft> a vw new beetle
[23:35:17] <furrywolf> nah. I'm just a redneck who's at home on a one lane gravel road doing 55. :P
[23:35:27] <XXCoder1> whoa I may finally find a source of 8020 near me
[23:35:28] <roycroft> but i own two aircooled vw buses, one of which is a camper bus
[23:35:30] <XXCoder1> fife isnt bad
[23:35:39] <XXCoder1> I got a soccer mom van
[23:35:42] <roycroft> ebay is pretty close :)
[23:35:43] <XXCoder1> nissan quest
[23:35:52] <furrywolf> roycroft: unless they have subaru engines... :P
[23:35:55] <XXCoder1> roycroft: not according to shipping costs there ouch
[23:36:16] <furrywolf> or you LIKE rebuilds every 10k.... :P
[23:36:34] <roycroft> if you build a good vw engine and drive it right it will last indefinitely
[23:36:42] <XXCoder1> furrywolf: nissian quests pre-1999 is basically immortal
[23:36:56] <XXCoder1> mines at 185,000 miles and still truckin' er I mean vanin;
[23:37:16] <furrywolf> xxcoder: nissans are good. I mean the vws.
[23:37:18] <roycroft> my beetle is at 193k miles
[23:37:22] <roycroft> but it's a tdi
[23:37:30] <roycroft> the engine is finally broken in
[23:37:49] <furrywolf> the busses.
[23:38:02] <furrywolf> a subaru ej22 will make them not suck. :P
[23:38:22] <furrywolf> (as badly)
[23:38:25] <XXCoder1> http://www.grainger.com/category/aluminum-extrusions/structural-framing-systems/material-handling/ecatalog/N-c3qZ1z0qh5v#nav=%2Fcategory%2Faluminum-extrusions%2Fstructural-framing-systems%2Fmaterial-handling%2Fecatalog%2FN-c3qZ1z0qh5vZh9c
[23:38:28] * roycroft likes going *putt putt* down a winding country road
[23:38:47] <XXCoder1> er http://www.grainger.com/category/aluminum-extrusions/structural-framing-systems/material-handling/ecatalog/N-c3q
[23:39:28] * furrywolf likes being able to pass people, go up hills, and drive across the country without planning where to get an engine rebuilt
[23:39:50] <roycroft> oh, you're no fun any more
[23:40:05] <furrywolf> lol
[23:40:31] * SpeedEvil wants a self-driving car.
[23:40:34] <furrywolf> I don't putt putt on country roads. I get places quickly. :)
[23:41:08] <roycroft> http://eugene.craigslist.org/mad/4817657048.html
[23:41:09] <XXCoder1> still wonder if 2010 would be enough for my small router cnc
[23:41:33] <roycroft> if i had a big enough shop for an overhead gantry crane those would be sweet
[23:41:39] <roycroft> $0.31/lb
[23:41:42] <roycroft> pretty good price
[23:42:45] <furrywolf> one of my relatives got a project... it's a bugaroo. it's half '74 super beetle and half '89 subaru, split vertically at the rockers. the floor pan, suspension, drivetrain (4x4!), etc, is all subaru, the visible sheetmetal is all beetle.
[23:43:40] <XXCoder1> roy you know if 8020 - 10 series 2010 beams would be strong enough for small router?
[23:43:55] <XXCoder1> probably prefer 15 series though
[23:43:57] <roycroft> i don't, offhand
[23:44:19] <roycroft> there's a deflection tool on their website you can use to calculate it
[23:44:41] <XXCoder1> I unfortunately dont know how to figure that
[23:45:07] <roycroft> you plug in the numbers
[23:45:18] <roycroft> type of extrusion
[23:45:22] <roycroft> length of span
[23:45:28] <roycroft> load at the ends
[23:45:30] <XXCoder1> yeah that side is simple
[23:45:30] <roycroft> load in the middle
[23:45:41] <XXCoder1> other side is what I have issues - I dont know how to get numbers
[23:45:41] <roycroft> and it will tell you how much the extrusion will sag
[23:48:12] <XXCoder1> http://www.grainger.com/product/80-20-Framing-Extrusion-29NZ80?s_pp=false&picUrl=//static.grainger.com/rp/s/is/image/Grainger/29NZ80_AS01?$smthumb$
[23:50:36] <XXCoder1> in least I found local source!
[23:50:43] <XXCoder1> evenually I will figure what to do
[23:52:37] <furrywolf> I need to figure out what to do about a disk image I'm making... I started it 7 hours ago. it's only been copying at 5-6MB/sec, and it's a 160GB drive. still has 30GB to go. I want to go to bed.
[23:53:05] <XXCoder1> usb?
[23:53:41] <furrywolf> yep
[23:53:55] <XXCoder1> hm probably usb 1,1
[23:54:01] <XXCoder1> old computer?
[23:54:15] <furrywolf> I'm not sure whether the problem is slow write to the usb drive (new 2tb external drive) or slow reads from the internal drive (old 160gb ide)...
[23:54:39] <furrywolf> I know reading off a usb drive managed 22MB/sec.
[23:55:47] <XXCoder1> or mayb trying to read busy drive>
[23:56:05] <furrywolf> system is running off usb key (linuxcnc live, since I had it handy)
[23:58:10] <XXCoder1> might be reason - usb is busy
[23:58:31] <XXCoder1> running os AND copying drive to usb storage, probably same one?