#linuxcnc | Logs for 2014-12-14

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[01:29:18] <t12_> whats the correct name name of this kind of square: http://i.ebayimg.com/00/s/Mzc1WDUwMA==/$T2eC16hHJHoE9n3KhWyOBP4u0-DyIw~~60_12.JPG
[01:29:30] <t12_> where its the same thickness and not an insert peice
[01:53:44] <archivist> t12_, never seen any other name for the variations yet
[02:24:59] <Deejay> moin
[03:17:51] <Loetmichel> mornin'
[03:21:03] <Loetmichel> *HA* NICE! i had "rewiring my sisters house further" on my agenda today... just climbed out of the bathtub and called my sister (who lives 220km away): no work 'til after the holidays... GREAT! LAZY SUNDAY!!!!1111 (unless my wife finds something to do for me ;-)
[03:26:38] <Loetmichel> that wiring is a PITA tho... my sisters 'husband to be' insists that it is done in a way that can converted to a Housebus without another rewiring... had cost me some gray hairs already ;-) ...i.E: ANY outlet/lamp/switch will have a seperate Bus wire and all 'in-wall-boxes' will be the deep ones to accomodate the sensors/actors for the bus system beside the standard outlets and switches.
[05:46:58] <archivist> I wonder when copec will fix his connection
[05:56:11] <Loetmichel> i dont think its the connection
[05:56:20] <Loetmichel> i think he is spamming somewhere
[05:56:26] <Loetmichel> may be inadvertly
[05:57:48] <archivist> some clients get that error on freenode due to the way they join
[06:18:02] <CaptHindsight> https://www.openmotics.com/shop/ http://wiki.openmotics.com/index.php/Modules open source PLC hardware that I can't seem to find the schematics for
[06:19:23] <CaptHindsight> https://github.com/openmotics/hardware hiding in the Git tree
[06:22:16] <CaptHindsight> http://wiki.openmotics.com/index.php/OMHGW
[06:22:59] <CaptHindsight> heh BBB + Pic and some IO
[06:24:49] <archivist> power modules seems expensive
[06:27:12] <archivist> and most naughty, seems only to work via their cloud and the gateway module
[06:28:00] <CaptHindsight> ah, I was looking for their gimmick
[06:28:51] <archivist> I spotted in the power module info "requires gateway"
[06:30:21] <CaptHindsight> http://wiki.openmotics.com/index.php/Main_Page#Modules
[06:30:40] <CaptHindsight> The Pic Basic Pro compiler however is not for free so we ask everyone to play fair and to purchase the compiler (PBP Gold edition that supports the Microchip 18F) from www.melabs.com. For people not interested in programming or doesn't want to purchase the compiler, the HEX code of all modules can be downloaded as well.
[07:00:03] <jthornton> morning
[09:12:51] <SolarNRG> hi guys
[09:13:50] <SolarNRG> yesterday somebody suggested I cut of 90% of the teeth off my hole saw so I did that with the angle grinder and I then managed to cut thru this 8mm mild steel no problem :p http://i.imgur.com/O9GDgAV.jpg
[09:14:47] <SpeedEvil> Me.
[09:14:48] <SpeedEvil> :)
[09:14:56] <bedah> blurry image is blurry
[09:15:06] <Tom_itx> gonna weld the race in place now?
[09:15:08] <SolarNRG> I've cut out some sections of angle iron with 64mm holes in each but the bearings are 62mm in diam so there's a bit of give, if I take the inner bearing out like on the right of that photo and tac it with the arc welder will it affect the smooth running of the bearing if I put the inner bearing back in after I've welded it to the hole?
[09:15:35] <SolarNRG> sorry ipad is broke, camera got stolen, lamp's bulb just died and I had to take the photo with the webcam best I could do sorry
[09:15:58] <archivist> wtf, never weld bearings unless you want to scrap them
[09:16:12] <Tom_itx> i _was_ kidding...
[09:16:27] <SolarNRG> on the right the bearing is out but the race is still in, if I weld the race without the inner bearing in there when I weld will it still be useless?
[09:16:31] <Tom_itx> based on the precision hole though..
[09:16:48] <Tom_itx> pretty much yes
[09:17:00] <SolarNRG> IDK if 5 teeth either side was too many or too few but it cut thru that steel real nice, thanks speedevil
[09:17:35] <SolarNRG> any suggestions how to hold the bearing in place without welding the trace then?
[09:17:41] <SpeedEvil> Simple idea is that it effectively ups your drill-presses torque and head pressure by 10fold
[09:17:44] <Tom_itx> press fit
[09:18:29] <SolarNRG> also reduced the heating loads too :)
[09:18:29] <archivist> he can only manage piss fit with those techniques
[09:18:47] <Tom_itx> i can imagine the alignment too
[09:18:53] <SolarNRG> the diy shop only had 60mm hole saw and 64mm hole saw, the bearing does fit loosely into the hole
[09:19:16] <archivist> use self aligning bearings
[09:19:28] <archivist> they bolt on
[09:20:45] <SolarNRG> i don't have self aligning bearings
[09:22:11] <SolarNRG> can I tap the bearing racing to the angle iron?
[09:24:35] <archivist> define tap, threading tap or large hammer "tap"
[09:24:59] <archivist> tack is the welding term
[09:25:05] <SolarNRG> threading tap
[09:25:42] <SolarNRG> like drill vertically itno the angle iron then threading it then screwing bolts into it to secure the racing
[09:26:10] <archivist> depends on the direction and clamping
[09:26:40] * archivist imagines an oval race
[09:28:13] <archivist> there must be an engineering school nearby so SolarNRG can get taught the basics
[09:30:02] <archivist> and after a google, yes there is
[09:35:06] <SolarNRG> to be fair if I had the cash to pay for engineering schooling I'd do it as it would give me access to better tooling to make what I want better if only I didn't have a 2 year old girl to look after and work a part time job
[09:37:28] <SolarNRG> perhaps I should just bite the bullet and accept I'm never gonna build myself a working CNC machine
[09:41:28] <archivist> you can clamp the outer between two flat sheets http://www.collection.archivist.info/archive/DJCPD/PD/2014/2014_11_27_barber_colman/IMG_1855.JPG
[09:44:55] <archivist> I do not rate angle iron as flat or square though (it is usually tapered on the inner angle)
[09:47:57] <SolarNRG> thanks for that image archivist, that's really educational, seems instead of trying to "slot in" the bearing you are "sandwiching" the bearing instead
[09:48:48] <archivist> yes, but those plates are machined flat, not rough angle iron
[09:49:51] <SolarNRG> I got flat sheet too, so really I want like 4 sheets of 8mm mild steel 100mmx100mm but with smaller hole in the middle of each right?
[09:50:40] <archivist> it depends on what you are making, think and design for the loads and the load direction
[09:50:48] <SolarNRG> seems as though those bits of angle iron I made now are a bit useless
[09:52:07] <SolarNRG> but ok I'll take this as a learning exercise in using hole saws with fewer teeth
[09:52:47] <SolarNRG> so 4 plates, each plate has 4 12mm holes in for the thread to sandwich the bearing in and one hole big enough for the acme thread?
[09:54:16] <SolarNRG> archivist: on a different note there seems to be some sort of adaptor between the acme thread and the stepped motor on the right of the "sandwich" can u please elaborate a bit about this thing?
[09:55:12] <archivist> that is a flexible to the stepper motor
[09:56:15] <SolarNRG> I take it they gotta be bought they can't be made
[09:57:09] <archivist> anything can be made, the skill level needed is variable
[09:58:11] <pcw_home> very simple flexible couplings a can be made from rubber tubing/hose
[09:58:24] <SolarNRG> archivist I like ur style "anything can be made" :)
[09:59:03] <SolarNRG> ok I'm gonna be attaching nema 34's that I already got to the acme thread once I've sorted out the bearings assemblies
[10:01:33] <SolarNRG> my thoughts were a bit of roundbar with one 8mm hole in one end but 4 laterall 4mm holes for grub screws and tap thread them so the motor rotor is a snug fit and the other end two pins that would slot into the acme thread that I'd drill
[10:02:26] <archivist> a rigid connection will fail
[10:02:34] <SolarNRG> why?
[10:03:05] <SolarNRG> something to do with rotational forces?
[10:03:10] <archivist> because all your bearings are not absolutely in line
[10:03:33] <archivist> that is why people use a flexible
[10:03:42] <SolarNRG> ur right there even the best machines will be out by like 0.00001 and what I'm building if I get it lined up to under a mm I'm happy
[10:05:05] <archivist> when lining up an engine I try to get better than a thou, 3 thou is a limit
[10:06:04] <SolarNRG> thousandths of a mm?
[10:06:15] <archivist> inch
[10:06:39] <SolarNRG> so we talking tens hundreds of micrometers then
[10:06:47] <SolarNRG> hairs widths
[10:06:52] <archivist> 3 ton flywheel on a twin cylinder diesel
[10:07:13] <SolarNRG> yeah the more misaligned that is the more its gonna shake the ground down
[10:08:58] <archivist> one puts a dti between the webs http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/c/ce/Fork_and_blade_connecting_rod%2C_Brush_diesel%2C_Snibston.jpg/1024px-Fork_and_blade_connecting_rod%2C_Brush_diesel%2C_Snibston.jpg
[10:09:39] <SolarNRG> what do u use to ensure alignment? laser?
[10:10:08] <archivist> a dti
[10:10:30] <archivist> top right picture for a complete one http://brush-oilengines.webeden.co.uk/#/history/4575541140
[10:12:44] <SolarNRG> loughborough midlands uk or the town somewhere in america named after it?
[10:12:53] <archivist> and the wollaton one http://brush-oilengines.webeden.co.uk/#/survivors/4578481015 is the one I set up
[10:15:10] <SolarNRG> I take it there's good money in repairing old engines
[10:15:34] <archivist> none at all
[10:21:35] <pfred1> I'd still like to firebomb the shop that rebuilt my engine
[10:21:55] <SolarNRG> did they do a crap job?
[10:22:15] <pfred1> I was going down the highway and one of my freezeout plugs fell out of the block
[10:22:25] <pfred1> that of course completely destroyed it
[10:22:41] <pcw_home> Same Brush that made headphones?
[10:22:46] <pfred1> they put those lugs in too
[10:22:51] <pfred1> plugs even
[10:23:00] <SolarNRG> I got my car "fixed" from one garage, wheel flew off on the motorway nearly got killed by a lorry
[10:23:30] <pfred1> when I went back them they said, oh, we should have pinned those for you
[10:23:39] <pfred1> I was like thanks for giving me that option now
[10:24:02] <pfred1> then they siad, no guarantee for that high performance work good luck!
[10:24:18] <pfred1> yeah i never saw a freezeout plug move so fast before
[10:24:22] <Rab> SolarNRG, that is a monster thrust bearing for a home CNC.
[10:25:05] <pfred1> SolarNRG if that engine didn't blow up on me then I'd have probably killed myself in that car anyways so perhaps it was for the best?
[10:25:28] <Rab> SolarNRG, will it sustain a lot of force in your application, or did that bearing just fit the cheap/available sweet spot? It looks like an automotive bearing.
[10:29:05] <SolarNRG> rab, that bearings is all the engineering shop had that would fit and I figured if I'm gonna be milling steel with my final machine it'll handle a lot of kick and force
[10:29:16] <SolarNRG> I mean my daughter's bashed the sh!t out of it and it still rotates fine
[10:29:27] <SolarNRG> this ain't no skate bearing for sure
[10:29:33] <Rab> Indeed.
[10:30:48] <Rab> I was gonna suggest, if it's only going to be subjected to forces lighter than the intended application, you might get away with slathering JB Weld all over to hold the race in the bracket.
[10:32:32] <Rab> I don't think clamping will work, because the bearing cage rides higher than the outer race. The hole in your clamp plate would need to be just the right diameter to clear the cage, while still holding the outer race captive.
[10:34:08] <Rab> Screws through the bracket might work, as you suggested. Again, for light duty only.
[10:34:59] <Rab> Where light duty is defined as less than, like, a car axle.
[10:35:35] <pfred1> if we had bearigns that were a little loose we'd engrave the outside race to make them a snug fit
[10:35:51] <pfred1> just like write a bunch of X's around it
[10:37:05] <archivist> pcw_home, I think there was some historical relation between the american and british brush companies
[10:38:45] <varesa> What is a typical/good spindle pwm frequency?
[10:46:50] <pcw_home> Middle C
[10:47:20] <SolarNRG> jb weld?
[10:47:22] <Rab> 261.6Hz?
[10:47:55] <Rab> SolarNRG, maybe it's a US thing...2-part metal-bearing epoxy: http://www.jbweld.com/
[10:48:22] <SolarNRG> oh a bit like araldite in europe
[10:48:26] <SolarNRG> 2 part epoxy
[10:49:00] <varesa> I'm working on a board to read in that PWM and drive the thyristors for the spindle that are part of the stock controller
[10:49:25] <varesa> Need to know what speed it would output at to configure the pwm input on this board :)
[10:49:39] <pcw_home> varesa: it really depends on what the PWM is used for
[10:50:22] <varesa> pcw_home: a simple speed control, no feedpack or anything like that
[10:50:42] <varesa> feedback*
[10:51:04] <pcw_home> if its to be converted to analog it depends on your filter (also software generated PWM has to be low frequency if you want much resolution)
[10:51:05] <pfred1> I'm pretty sure optimal pwm has to do with the inductance of the motor being driven
[10:51:40] <varesa> pfred1: it's not the drive frequency, just the information to my driver board
[10:51:51] <pcw_home> is this driving a Thyristor control tha has analog inputs?
[10:52:07] <varesa> pcw_home: it just has two diodes and two thyristors :)
[10:52:36] <pcw_home> but what controls the gate drive?
[10:52:46] <varesa> my board I'm making
[10:52:50] <jfigie> pwm for motors can be anywhere from 100-120 Hz for thyristor drives to 20 KHz for FET drives
[10:53:17] <pcw_home> and 50 KHz or > for high performance drives
[10:53:31] <varesa> I made a board with isolated zero crossing detectors, pwm input and thyristor drivers
[10:53:40] <jfigie> yep depends on the size of the motor and drive
[10:54:02] <pcw_home> Ahh this not really PWM but phase control
[10:54:02] <jfigie> small motors and drives can run at higher frequencies
[10:54:07] <varesa> so to get some resolution from software pwm I should be using something 100hz-ish?
[10:55:04] <pcw_home> if you are using a analog input to do phase control yeah 100 Hz or so and then a filter
[10:55:37] <jfigie> large drives using IGBTs might be from 2KHz to 20 KHZ. Larger drives run slower because of higher switching losses
[10:55:45] <pcw_home> if you are driving the gates directly from linuxCNC you need to user a timer/oneshot component
[10:56:05] <pcw_home> (and sync on power line)
[10:56:30] <pcw_home> Yeah high performance drives dont use IGBTs (too slow)
[10:56:43] <varesa> pcw_home: a mcu on my board does the power line sync + gate driving, I just wondered about the frequency between PC and MCU
[10:56:54] <jfigie> depends on the motor size
[10:57:25] <jfigie> if > several Kw to 100s of KW they all use IGBTs
[10:57:53] <pcw_home> Yeas Mosfet drives are limited to a maybe 5 KW before they get too expensive
[10:58:27] <pcw_home> but much better performamce
[11:00:33] <jfigie> the required frequency also has to do with the system inertia. There is no need to run at 50 Khz if the inertial is large. There is no need to close the current loops that fast.
[11:00:49] <jfigie> inertia*
[11:01:17] <pcw_home> Sure (but depends on required accuracy)
[11:03:01] <SolarNRG> quick question regarding IGBTs never used them at Uni, too high power health and safety wouldn't let us use them, but does the principle of the "darlington pair" still apply? I.e. you use a chain of gradually more and more powerful transistors so a tiny 5v on can trigger a 240v 70 amp on for instance?
[11:03:42] <pcw_home> IGBTs are voltage operated devices like MOSFETS
[11:04:00] <pcw_home> so typically just used a gate drive IC
[11:04:47] <pfred1> yeah mosfets are paralleled
[11:05:01] <SolarNRG> Metal Oxide Semiconductor Field Effect Transistor :) See I do remember my lectures
[11:05:01] <pfred1> the gate is so sensitive
[11:05:04] <pcw_home> They use a combination of a MOSFET and a bipolar transistor on a single die
[11:05:22] <pfred1> want more power use more in parallel
[11:06:01] <SolarNRG> what about solid state relays?
[11:06:10] <SolarNRG> or are they only for AC?
[11:06:10] <pfred1> TI makes a dirve they use 7,000 in parallel
[11:06:13] <jfigie> yes one problem with darlington is high saturation voltage this make them unsuitable for high current
[11:06:42] <pcw_home> They tend to be slow also
[11:07:11] <SolarNRG> so they're ok for making PID controlled hotplates for brewing hooch for xmas but they're crap for stepper motors etc
[11:07:48] <pfred1> seems i have to run my stepper slowly anyways for any accuracy
[11:07:52] <pcw_home> Lots of old unipolar drives used Darlingtons
[11:08:17] <pfred1> pcw_home were they bipolar?
[11:08:19] <pcw_home> modern Step drives all use MOSFETs AFAIK
[11:08:26] <pfred1> like regular transistors?
[11:08:27] <jfigie> yes is took a while for MOSETS to progress to where they were better
[11:08:44] <SolarNRG> I had to solder darlingtons to make 2 H-bridges for a little robot for my 2nd year project
[11:09:20] <jfigie> Darlingtons also tend to be slow to turn off
[11:09:29] <SolarNRG> but quicker than relays!
[11:09:29] <jfigie> compared to MOSFETs
[11:09:46] <pfred1> mosfets tend to blow up better
[11:10:55] <pfred1> with an H bridge slow can be good
[11:11:10] <pcw_home> In my experience MOSFETs are tougher (big Bipolar transistors are very easy to damage with secondary breakdown)
[11:11:26] <SolarNRG> BJTs?
[11:11:51] <pfred1> I remember when you could just look at a FET wrong and it'd blow out
[11:12:05] <SolarNRG> MOSFETs are pretty standardized nowadays
[11:12:17] <pfred1> FETs are what caused concern about ESD
[11:12:22] <SolarNRG> I was told npn was the standard and pnp was dead
[11:12:32] <SolarNRG> how the transistor was layered
[11:13:06] <pfred1> do not remove grounding wire until component is inserted into circuit
[11:13:44] <SolarNRG> oh yeah static shocks and all that before we all had rubber soled shoes
[11:14:07] <pfred1> before clamp diodes too
[11:14:21] <jfigie> If you exceed the gate voltage rating on MOSFETs it may do permanent damage
[11:14:31] <jfigie> insulation breaks down
[11:14:59] <pcw_home> Little MOSFETS are easy to kill with ESD bigger ones have enough gate capacitance that its harder
[11:15:01] <jfigie> It has a high input impedance so it is easy to do
[11:15:09] <pfred1> one good thing about where I live now static really isn't an issue here at all too humid
[11:19:40] <pfred1> I got my machine back together last night and i am running some example files with a pen and my pen holder is wobbly
[11:20:10] <pfred1> like i can see the pen bending while the file is being drawn
[11:23:27] <pfred1> snowflake.ngc kicks my machine's ass
[11:42:30] <SolarNRG> pfred1, got any photos?
[11:43:00] <pfred1> only of the first bad run
[11:43:11] <pfred1> since then I haven't taken any more pictures
[11:43:37] <SolarNRG> u no we learn more from our mistakes than our sucesses
[11:44:00] <pfred1> I still have not figured out what I've learned yet other than making a CNC machine is harder than it looks
[11:45:02] <Cylly> pfred1: is it?
[11:45:09] <Cylly> cant say that...
[11:45:11] <Cylly> ;-)
[11:45:16] <pfred1> you can see the lines do not meet up and the pattern is distorted http://i.imgur.com/ATX29wd.jpg
[11:45:41] <pfred1> Loetmichel perhaps i should amplify my statement making an economical CNC machine is not easy
[11:45:55] <Loetmichel> hmm, that looks like the pen distrorting
[11:46:07] <Loetmichel> dit you press it to hard to the surface maybe?
[11:46:13] <pfred1> yeah the writing tool drags
[11:46:30] <pfred1> so far all of the holders I've made are poor I suppose
[11:46:51] <pfred1> I can see the writing instrument bending around and what have you
[11:47:14] <Loetmichel> i can imagine it from the pattern it painted
[11:47:43] <Loetmichel> its very typical for a tool that bends out of the center because its pressed to hard to the surface
[11:47:56] <pfred1> yeah so I don't know how much is caused by that and how much by the machine itself I think it is a combination of the two
[11:48:42] <pfred1> it does the spiral example pretty good though
[11:49:01] <pfred1> but this snowflake is going to be the death of me to get it to do it
[11:49:52] <pfred1> it doesn't even do the LinuxCNC splash screen very well
[11:50:21] <Loetmichel> tip: use an edding fineliner with the 0,3mm tip, get a snug fitting tubearound it, bend the tube at the lower end a bit so it cant fall out and let the press-on be done by gravity
[11:50:33] <Loetmichel> so just trhow the fioneliner into the tube
[11:50:36] <Loetmichel> from above
[11:50:41] <archivist> diagnose where the lost motion/play/backlash is
[11:50:43] <SolarNRG> pfred1 ain't that the truth!
[11:51:15] <Loetmichel> s/mend/dink
[11:51:17] <Loetmichel> bend
[11:51:50] <Loetmichel> and dont forget to tape the tube firmly to your z axis
[11:52:00] <archivist> and test for rigidity of the machine
[11:52:17] <pfred1> I just reinforced the X axis
[11:52:20] <Loetmichel> and do that snowflaketest again
[11:52:31] <Loetmichel> do you have a pic of your machine?
[11:52:39] <pfred1> not sonce i redid it no
[11:52:55] <pfred1> I do have a picture of my recent reinforcment someplace
[11:52:56] <Loetmichel> and before?
[11:54:19] <pfred1> here is my old, and new corner brackets http://i.imgur.com/jgcuyvM.jpg
[11:54:23] <pfred1> the new ones are bigger
[11:54:35] <pfred1> I left the old ones on too
[11:54:53] <SolarNRG> wooden frame?
[11:55:01] <Loetmichel> ... and the whole machine?
[11:55:02] <Jymm> whats all the holes for?
[11:55:04] <pfred1> yes but there is steel all around it now
[11:55:15] <pfred1> Jymm so Ican see
[11:55:40] <Jymm> O_o
[11:55:41] <Loetmichel> SolarNRG: there is nothing wrong with wooden frame... if done right ;-)
[11:55:55] <pfred1> well the wood just holds the steel now
[11:56:00] <Loetmichel> ask MarkusBec, he can tell ;)
[11:56:06] <XXCoder> yeah depends on what use cnc is for
[11:56:08] <pfred1> ther isn't a run of wood more than an inch anymore
[11:56:24] <pfred1> without steel on it
[11:56:43] <Loetmichel> http://www.cyrom.org/palbum/main.php?g2_itemId=11205
[11:56:52] <Loetmichel> thats "wood", too
[11:56:57] <pfred1> there are a pair of steel strongbacks on the ends and steel rails the bearings run on
[11:57:06] <Loetmichel> and it can cope with aluminium and steel if you have time ;-)
[11:57:18] <pfred1> I juast want to route wood
[11:57:27] <pfred1> I have a mill for other materials
[11:57:35] <Loetmichel> oh shit is MarkusBec young in that pic ;-)
[11:58:17] <pfred1> I've no interest, or use for CNC machining anything other than wood
[11:58:51] <Loetmichel> MarkusBec: do you have any videos of that machine in use?
[12:00:58] <Loetmichel> i have only one from building it -> http://www.cyrom.org/pce/Lilafraese_tag1.avi
[12:01:16] <Loetmichel> ... and ine from testing the ways... *searching*
[12:02:32] <Loetmichel> http://www.cyrom.org/palbum/main.php?g2_view=core.DownloadItem&g2_itemId=11178
[12:03:49] <Loetmichel> pfred1: do you have a pic of the full machine?
[12:04:04] <pfred1> not yet
[12:04:23] <pfred1> I just got it together last night
[12:06:47] <Loetmichel> take one. maybe we can suggest improvements by looking at it alone...
[12:06:58] <MarkusBec> my expiriens is that a maschine out of polywood is better than aluminium
[12:07:00] <SolarNRG> loetmichel won't wood bend more than steel?
[12:07:11] <Loetmichel> some errors are pretty plain to the ones taht made a few machines ;-)
[12:07:19] <MarkusBec> SolarNRG: no
[12:07:31] <Loetmichel> SolarNRG: thats "marine plywood" ... dioesent really have much to do with real wood
[12:07:44] <Loetmichel> and no, it doesent bend if you use the right construction technique
[12:08:12] <MarkusBec> SolarNRG: polywood with the right construction is extremely tuff
[12:08:20] <archivist> make sure the forces are along the grain
[12:08:23] <Loetmichel> for example: the inside of the base of MarkusBec' machine looks simolar to this: http://www.cyrom.org/palbum/main.php?g2_itemId=4053
[12:09:17] <SolarNRG> loetmichel to be fair that looks pretty solid to me
[12:09:23] <MarkusBec> if you put a coin unter 1 edge of my maschine
[12:09:37] <MarkusBec> the other 2 edeges are in the air
[12:09:45] <Loetmichel> .. you can measure the exact couin diameter on the other ;)
[12:10:02] <MarkusBec> with 16000*14000 base geometry
[12:10:35] <Loetmichel> i did that with a 50mm measurement block
[12:10:40] <Loetmichel> unter one edge
[12:10:56] <Loetmichel> you could meaure exactly 50mm on the other (flying) edge
[12:11:25] <Loetmichel> of someone pressed the other side of the machine to the ground to it doesent tip over
[12:11:44] <Loetmichel> s/edge/corner
[12:12:23] <Loetmichel> (german again, edge: "kante", corner: "ecke")
[12:12:28] <MarkusBec> http://bambuser.com/v/920808
[12:12:29] <CaptHindsight> did anyone ever find a reputable supplier from China for few KW water cooled spindles?
[12:12:56] <MarkusBec> http://bambuser.com/v/1333934
[12:13:59] <MarkusBec> CaptHindsight: few kW as in 2,2kw or as in 25kw
[12:14:47] <SolarNRG> marcusbec what is that spindle?
[12:14:52] <SolarNRG> and where did u get it from?
[12:14:58] <CaptHindsight> MarkusBec: few would mean <10Kw, 25KW would be described by many or several
[12:15:40] <MarkusBec> I bought my spindle with 2,2 kw at alibaba.com
[12:16:15] <SolarNRG> markusbec if u were nuts enough could u use the tool by hand?
[12:16:26] <Loetmichel> ah, there is a video of "my" old machine. similar to MarkusBec' but prior design: http://www.cyrom.org/hajo/sauuuug.avi
[12:16:29] <SolarNRG> like hold it and wiggle it on a bit of metal?
[12:16:33] <Loetmichel> just so you get an idea of the size
[12:17:41] <MarkusBec> SolarNRG: hm?
[12:18:22] <SolarNRG> Like if u had the spindle not attached to the machine could u use it like you would a router or a dremel or a hand drill or is the spindle just so heavy and powerful you wouldn't consider using it not as part of a machine?
[12:18:28] <Loetmichel> MarkusBec: the kress was at its limit at the "kugelbahn" video, want it?
[12:18:53] <Loetmichel> SolarNRG: that spindlem in the videos is a router motor
[12:19:09] <SolarNRG> so there's no way that router will handle steel then?
[12:19:22] <Loetmichel> from kress, the 1050 FME iirc
[12:19:53] <MarkusBec> CaptHindsight: i think you can buy it from everywhere there are all made in WonHungLow Inc. chenzen
[12:19:55] <Loetmichel> steel will detoriate the motors bearings VERY fast
[12:20:12] <Loetmichel> they dont last very long in AL and wood for all that matters
[12:20:26] <SolarNRG> loetmichel can u recommend for me a good spindle for milling steel?
[12:20:32] <MarkusBec> CaptHindsight: all parts that can fail ar the bearings
[12:20:34] <Loetmichel> i would go for a 2.2kw chinese watercooled spindle from ebay
[12:20:40] <MarkusBec> und you can easly hange it
[12:20:44] <MarkusBec> change
[12:21:15] <MarkusBec> and
[12:21:18] <Loetmichel> ... which can be a bit off runout-wise (which can be reground if you have the tools/fgrends witgh the tools) but otherwise is the best bang for the buck you'll get
[12:21:57] <Loetmichel> i have two of these chinese ac spindles with 800W
[12:22:09] <Loetmichel> formy small mills at home and at the company
[12:22:24] <SolarNRG> loetmichel would the 800w chinese spindle u got mill steel?
[12:22:37] <Loetmichel> the stand theier man, so to say
[12:22:46] <MarkusBec> SolarNRG: CaptHindsight or if you want quality vor not a lage amount of money you can bux elte spindles out of italy
[12:22:53] <CaptHindsight> I'm considering building dedicated machining centers for milling aluminum cases the way Apple does it
[12:23:10] <MarkusBec> http://www.eltesrl.com
[12:23:33] <Loetmichel> http://www.cyrom.org/palbum/main.php?g2_itemId=11828
[12:23:37] <Loetmichel> it does
[12:24:10] <Loetmichel> but it takes TIME ;-)
[12:24:43] <CaptHindsight> Apple gets theirs from China somewhere
[12:25:01] <SolarNRG> what do u guys think of this one: http://www.alibaba.com/product-detail/3kw-3-2kw-spindle-elte-for_1728505455.html?s=p
[12:25:26] <Loetmichel> http://www.cyrom.org/palbum/main.php?g2_itemId=14040 <- thats my home CNC
[12:25:58] <SolarNRG> loetmichel aluminium frame
[12:26:21] <Loetmichel> http://www.cyrom.org/palbum/main.php?g2_itemId=12569
[12:26:23] <Loetmichel> yes
[12:26:31] <Tom_itx> SolarNRG, you may wanna get one that has the control with it
[12:26:44] <SolarNRG> tom_itx can u make a recommendation?
[12:26:49] <Tom_itx> no
[12:26:55] <CaptHindsight> SolarNRG: the good thing is that they post their certificates
[12:27:41] <Loetmichel> SolarNRG: i would go for a set from ebay
[12:27:47] <CaptHindsight> http://www.han-qi.com/English/aboutus.asp their actual website
[12:27:48] <SolarNRG> u no a part of me was thinking about just getting 30cm of stainless bar in between 2 thrust bearings and putting a bicycle wheel on one end then peddling the thing to grind the metal
[12:28:26] <Loetmichel> http://www.ebay.de/itm/220V-2-2kw-Water-Cooled-Spindle-Motor-With-2-2kw-Inverter-VFD-/230954246618?pt=UK_BOI_Industrial_Automation_Control_ET&hash=item35c5f221da
[12:28:28] <SolarNRG> cos I got this feeling I order a spindle then I'll be like "guys guys my first CNC spindle arrived in the post from China today, now what do I do with these wires?"
[12:28:29] <Loetmichel> like this one
[12:28:45] <Loetmichel> they come precondigured for the spindle so no hasseling with motor parameters
[12:28:51] <Loetmichel> configured
[12:29:37] <Tom_itx> what size collets does that take?
[12:29:56] <SolarNRG> loetmichel will that one handle mild steel no probs?
[12:29:59] <Loetmichel> ER20
[12:30:08] <Loetmichel> so upt to 13mm cylindical shaft tools
[12:30:20] <Tom_itx> ~1/2"
[12:30:31] <Loetmichel> SolarNRG: as my 800W can do mild steel i would think: yes
[12:30:53] <SolarNRG> how much do u want for ur 800w one?
[12:31:03] <Loetmichel> cant sell that ;-)
[12:31:11] <Loetmichel> need it myself ;-)
[12:31:11] <SolarNRG> aww :(
[12:32:14] <Loetmichel> you know that a 13mm tool in Steel is WAY off most gantry mill rigidity tho?
[12:32:26] <Loetmichel> homebuild gantry that is
[12:32:49] <Loetmichel> i would set the point of "no go" at about 4mm for the usual constructions
[12:32:54] <Loetmichel> tool diameter
[12:38:08] <SolarNRG> has anyone got a good photo of the wiring to one of these spindles in a finished machine?
[12:38:29] <CaptHindsight> somebody must make a tool changer that size
[12:41:06] <Loetmichel> SolarNRG: its just 3 phase + Eaarth
[12:41:10] <Loetmichel> nothing fancy
[12:41:22] <Loetmichel> and 1 phase or 3 phase to the VDF
[12:41:25] <Loetmichel> VFD
[12:50:53] <CaptHindsight> http://www.romanblack.com/CNC/tool.jpg
[12:51:13] <CaptHindsight> http://www.tormach.com/uploads/images/Gallery/products/pcnc1100/PCNC1100_Options_ATC/32279_ATC_under_lrg.jpg
[12:52:50] <CaptHindsight> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lFoKfEz1XRM mini mill atc
[12:53:37] <CaptHindsight> I guess they blew their budget on the ATC and none for a vise :)
[12:55:36] <malcom2073> Heh that is quite the cheesy looking vice
[12:55:46] <malcom2073> I plan on DIYing a toolchanger for my router, because I like pain
[13:01:53] <MarkusBec> CaptHindsight: http://www.alibaba.com/trade/search?fsb=y&IndexArea=product_en&CatId=&SearchText=Electrospindles+quick+toolchange
[13:03:22] <CaptHindsight> http://www.hsd.it/
[13:08:54] <SolarNRG> a bit like an alternator then
[13:09:00] <SolarNRG> that's 3 phase
[13:15:54] <pcw_home> Spindle motors are usually 3 phase induction motors
[13:15:55] <pcw_home> (so 3 phase like an alternator but an alternator has a DC field in the rotor not AC like an induction motor)
[13:17:00] <SolarNRG> thanks for that
[13:18:07] <SolarNRG> listen yeah, I seen this water cooled spindle kit for sale I know it's only 1.5kw but for a first timer whose trying to make a steel mill whatdaya think of this? http://ja.aliexpress.com/item/1-5kw-VFD-Interver-CNC-Spindle-Motor-1500W-ER16-1-10mm-80mm-clamp-3-2m-water/1985165880.html
[13:18:49] <SolarNRG> or u think I might be better off buying the spindle, pump, pipes, vfd separately?
[13:21:55] <CaptHindsight> since you are unsure of yourself I'd suggest exchanging money for as complete a unit as possible
[13:22:08] <Loetmichel> i would strongly suiggest to buy at least spindle and vfd as a kit
[13:22:29] <Loetmichel> because these spindles can be tricky to configure the VFD.
[13:22:50] <Loetmichel> and the chinese manufacturers give virtually no info on parameters for their spindles
[13:23:08] <Loetmichel> the pump is easy tho
[13:23:20] <SolarNRG> pond pump?
[13:24:04] <Loetmichel> just buy a cheap "inhouse fountain" pump with a few liters per minute thruput
[13:24:16] <SolarNRG> ok
[13:24:21] <Loetmichel> and a big bucket to store the water in
[13:24:26] <SolarNRG> :) easy enough
[13:24:33] <Loetmichel> usually there is no need for a radiator
[13:25:21] <Loetmichel> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a9Ov69t0uwo
[13:25:26] <SolarNRG> isn't the bracket useful?
[13:25:35] <Loetmichel> i have none and my 800W spindle stays below 40°c
[13:25:48] <Loetmichel> http://www.cyrom.org/palbum/main.php?g2_itemId=13048
[13:26:06] <Loetmichel> the bracket is useful if you have no means in making your own
[13:26:16] <Loetmichel> i.e if thats your first spindle ;-)
[13:26:42] <SolarNRG> sounds to me like that 1.5kw water cooled spindle kit's a good buy then :)
[13:27:19] <SolarNRG> I know everybody's making me look toward the 2.2kw but the way I see it is ANYTHING is better than my drill press and angle grinder I got atm
[13:27:47] <SolarNRG> besides even with a working spindle and no working machine I could use it as a very rudimentary mill right?
[13:28:07] <SolarNRG> like mill steel parts by hand
[13:28:21] <SolarNRG> until I make a fully working machine
[13:29:35] <SolarNRG> couldn't I?
[13:29:47] <SolarNRG> or is that a recipe for lost fingers?
[13:30:28] <CaptHindsight> just watch your fingers, don't wear gloves, fasten things down properly, wear safety glasses
[13:30:54] <CaptHindsight> don't wear a tie etc
[13:31:08] <Loetmichel> SolarNRG: i had to learn the hard way NOT to get anywhere near the rotating tool with my dfinger
[13:31:27] <CaptHindsight> unless you're going out, just not while machining
[13:31:52] <Loetmichel> ... 24krpm are FAST... a 3mm tungsden carbide 2flute goes trrhu fleshg and bone in NO time
[13:32:09] <Loetmichel> http://www.cyrom.org/palbum/main.php?g2_itemId=2958
[13:32:14] <Loetmichel> any questions?
[13:32:16] <Loetmichel> ;-)
[13:32:25] <SolarNRG> how come I can get tungsten carbide endmills but I cant get tungsten carbide drills?
[13:32:33] <Loetmichel> you can
[13:32:34] <SolarNRG> apart from gundrills
[13:32:54] <Loetmichel> you just have to look at the right places )
[13:33:01] <SolarNRG> no DIY store sells them
[13:33:28] <Loetmichel> in germany i would know a source
[13:33:38] <Loetmichel> but that will not help you or does it?
[13:33:50] <Loetmichel> look for PCB drills
[13:33:54] <Loetmichel> they are made of TC
[13:33:58] <malcom2073> Youtube, how I hate thee, you make my project list lengthen by the day.
[13:34:01] <SolarNRG> will they cut steel?
[13:34:09] <SolarNRG> malcom does youtube load for you ok?
[13:34:17] <malcom2073> SolarNRG: Uh... seems to, I'm watching videos now
[13:34:23] <SolarNRG> it goes chuggedy chug for me at this time of night
[13:34:38] <malcom2073> My internet is crap, so I'm always on 240p resolution though)
[13:36:35] <malcom2073> So I have a couple of 35mm rails, and I'm trying to figure out what to do with them. They're WAY overkill for a wood router, so I started thinking full size cnc... except the frame to support these would cost more than I paid for the rails. Started finding videos of people building their own CNC's, and thought... why can't I convert an old knee mill's dovetails into linear rail?
[13:37:36] <Loetmichel> why should you?
[13:38:09] <Loetmichel> the dovetails on old (2 ton)= knee mills will still be fine long after you have gone to dust again...
[13:38:29] <Rab> SolarNRG, you could do some very rudimentary manual milling using a cross-slide vise mounted under your spindle: http://www.use-enco.com/ProductImages/6349614-24.jpg
[13:39:03] <Rab> You still need some kind of Z-axis to plunge the spindle. And the whole thing will need to be very rigid.
[13:39:05] <malcom2073> Loetmichel: True, I thought maybe I could get more travel out of it, but I'd have to look at how close I can space the carriages vs how big the carriage on the dovetails are
[13:39:06] <SolarNRG> rab I seen one of them for sale in the engineering shop cost about 140 euros
[13:39:16] <Rab> SolarNRG, yeah, not terribly cheap.
[13:39:51] <Rab> SolarNRG, I strongly advise you not to try free-hand shaping steel with the spindle. It'll destroy the tooling, the workpiece, and maybe you.
[13:40:12] <malcom2073> So typically on the kind of rundown mills you can get for free, the dovetails don't ever really have issues?
[13:40:21] <SolarNRG> so do not use it like a bandsaw then
[13:40:40] <Loetmichel> malcom2073: nothing that cant be fixed by an extended scraping session
[13:41:01] <Loetmichel> usually the acme threads and -nuts are in much worse condition
[13:41:16] <malcom2073> I've also got some 35mm ballscrews heh
[13:41:30] <Rab> SolarNRG, a bandsaw has a stop to keep the blade from catching and flinging your work through your skull or groin.
[13:41:30] <Loetmichel> ... and THESE are worth changing to ballscrews when making a CNC of it
[13:41:36] <malcom2073> Right
[13:42:12] <SolarNRG> are most acme thread nuts ballscrew?
[13:42:30] <Loetmichel> SolarNRG: badsaw and round aluminium and no vice: (warning, BLODDY!) http://www.cyrom.org/palbum/main.php?g2_itemId=11136
[13:42:42] <SolarNRG> cheers for warning
[13:42:47] <Loetmichel> hihi, that was a freud, want it?
[13:42:54] <Loetmichel> baNdsaw of course
[13:42:56] <SolarNRG> ouch
[13:42:56] <Rab> SolarNRG, that's a contradiction in terms. Acme thread is different from a ballscrew.
[13:44:08] <Loetmichel> SolarNRG: thats the sme thumb that got a hole from the mill bit a few years earlier
[13:44:18] <Loetmichel> lucily i tend to injure my left hand ;-)
[13:45:11] <Loetmichel> no, acme thread is trapezodial
[13:45:19] <Loetmichel> ballscrews have a half round thread
[13:45:31] <Loetmichel> obviously for the balls to run in ;)
[13:45:36] <Rab> SolarNRG, see the graphics at the bottom of this page for a comparison: http://www.roton.com/page.aspx?id=28
[13:46:43] <SolarNRG> rab: http://i.imgur.com/GxvJMXf.jpg is this ballscrew or is it acme? cos its what I got
[13:47:00] <malcom2073> Loetmichel: Does it change anything if I tell you the linear rails are roller rails, not ball rails?
[13:47:06] <Rab> SolarNRG, looks like acme thread to me.
[13:47:16] <malcom2073> Or am I pretty much better of selling them?
[13:47:21] <Loetmichel> malcom2073: not really
[13:47:34] <SolarNRG> ok any advantages of ballscrew over acme?
[13:47:42] <Loetmichel> a good dovetail machine is better than any linear rail for heavy loads
[13:48:01] <Loetmichel> SolarNRG: no play/backlash
[13:48:04] <malcom2073> They wer ea hell of a deal, I can get twice what I paid for them on ebay... but been searching a lot, and it's lookinglike I'm going to wind up spending a ton of money building a frame to support the rails
[13:48:17] <Loetmichel> and about three times the load with same torque
[13:48:19] <Rab> SolarNRG, absolutely. Reduced friction = higher load capability, reduced wear, increased precision.
[13:48:26] <malcom2073> So for a cnc, starting with a mill may be way cheaper than building one
[13:48:27] <Loetmichel> as you could have seen in the pich rab posted
[13:49:21] <Rab> SolarNRG, think of the difference between ball bearings and bronze bushings. A ball screw is a special ball bearing set up for helical motion.
[13:49:24] <SolarNRG> if i make my machine out of acme thread will it have a lot of backlash leading to inaccurate cuts?
[13:49:26] <Loetmichel> malcom2073: depends on the result you want
[13:49:39] <Rab> SolarNRG, you will need some type of backlash compensation.
[13:49:40] <Loetmichel> if you want to go for travel: build a gantry.
[13:49:59] <SolarNRG> ballscrew seems like the holy grail I'm almost ashamed of me acme thread now :(
[13:50:03] <Loetmichel> if you want to do heavy cutting:buy a manual mill and convertio it to cnc
[13:50:06] <Rab> SolarNRG, typically that's done by using two nuts with spring tension or other adjustment between them, to cancel out the backlash.
[13:50:32] <Loetmichel> SolarNRG: acme can do perfectly well, too
[13:50:39] <pcw_home> or CNC mill with a bad/obsolete control...
[13:50:45] <Rab> SolarNRG, acme thread is perfectly fine for a home machine. It won't be super precise, particularly over time as it wears, but you can produce good work.
[13:51:05] <Loetmichel> http://www.cyrom.org/palbum/main.php?g2_itemId=8884
[13:51:21] <Rab> And that's some rather large acme rod.
[13:51:27] <Loetmichel> totally backlas-free either... but only for light loads
[13:51:28] <SolarNRG> Any ideas what I'm supposed to put on the big nut?
[13:51:31] <Loetmichel> ans DOES wear
[13:51:48] <SolarNRG> like what do you do with the big acme nut to make it a linear actuator?
[13:52:43] <Loetmichel> SolarNRG: did you see the pic?
[13:52:47] <Rab> Fix it to your axis platform.
[13:53:07] <Loetmichel> or look here for another way of getting the backlash out:
[13:53:22] <Loetmichel> http://www.cyrom.org/palbum/main.php?g2_itemId=14034&g2_imageViewsIndex=1
[13:53:44] <SolarNRG> is that nut like glued into a few blocks of aluminium plate?
[13:54:02] <Loetmichel> the (POM) nut is sawn nearly in halve and one part is spread off by an m4 screw so you can adjust it to be backlash free
[13:54:23] <Loetmichel> its screwed in the aluminium block
[13:54:34] <Loetmichel> http://www.cyrom.org/palbum/main.php?g2_itemId=14037
[13:54:36] <Rab> SolarNRG, you can make your own nuts from high-density plastic which will perform pretty well for a while, and they're essentially disposable: http://reboots.g-cipher.net/ghettocnc/#acmetap
[13:54:38] <Loetmichel> without the nut
[13:54:43] <Loetmichel> (and the dirt)
[13:55:03] <Rab> http://bbs.homeshopmachinist.net/threads/43645-Making-Acetal-leadscrew-nuts-the-easy-way/
[13:55:12] <SolarNRG> my nut is 60mm in outer diameter
[13:55:42] <Rab> Little or no backlash to start with on a tapped delrin nut, although I haven't seen a good analysis of its wear performance over time.
[13:55:57] <Loetmichel> Rab: you mean like this? http://www.cyrom.org/palbum/main.php?g2_itemId=356
[13:56:01] <SolarNRG> i saved the image anyway
[13:56:15] <Rab> Loetmichel, fine work. ;D
[13:56:32] <SolarNRG> where on earth did you get a tap like that from?
[13:56:50] <Loetmichel> SolarNRG: that was a bit of acme screw and a lathe ;-)
[13:56:58] <Loetmichel> and the mill for the slot
[13:57:02] <Rab> SolarNRG, you can make it from spare rod. Did you see the first link I posted?
[13:57:37] <SolarNRG> sorry I didn't please repost
[13:57:50] <Rab> http://reboots.g-cipher.net/ghettocnc/#acmetap
[13:58:21] <Rab> I just a drill press, file, and angle grinder for the flutes.
[13:59:52] <Rab> You could make two nuts and design some way to adjust them apart for backlash compensation.
[14:01:28] <Loetmichel> Rab: i did that by making a slot into one nut and drill a hole thru the seoerated part, so i can use a screw to "bend " the seperated part away from the main part
[14:01:49] <Loetmichel> do that until the acme screw gets stuck and then back a few degrees
[14:01:50] <Rab> Loetmichel, sounds reasonable.
[14:02:01] <Loetmichel> and voila: backlash-free nut ;-)
[14:02:24] <Loetmichel> ... until it wears down
[14:02:35] <Rab> SolarNRG, you can do this without cutting up your threaded rod, using common shop tools: http://bbs.homeshopmachinist.net/threads/43645-Making-Acetal-leadscrew-nuts-the-easy-way/
[14:02:43] <Loetmichel> so be sure to have access to that screw without dismantling the whole machine ;-)
[14:05:18] <SolarNRG> so rab u didn't actually use a standard steel acme nut for your linear actuator you used a block of aluminium and attached some HDPE to it with the correct threading into the HDPE and THAT acted as what moved back and forth when the acme rotates
[14:05:49] <SolarNRG> Because I was thinking weld it to angle iron, I was thinking bolt it to angle iron
[14:05:51] <Rab> SolarNRG, that is correct.
[14:06:09] <Rab> You could bolt it to angle iron.
[14:06:14] <SolarNRG> Also I like loetmichel's idea this one giant block has the bolt in it and the bearings that go to the rails looks totally clatter free
[14:07:07] <Loetmichel> SolarNRG: steel/steel is a bad glide partner
[14:07:13] <Loetmichel> s/partner/pair
[14:07:13] <SolarNRG> why?
[14:07:20] <Loetmichel> because it needs lubrication
[14:07:32] <Loetmichel> and lubricant acts like glue for swarf and dust
[14:07:37] <SolarNRG> are you saying ditch the steel acme nut?
[14:07:44] <Loetmichel> intensifying wear greatly
[14:07:50] <Loetmichel> yes
[14:07:56] <Loetmichel> ise a DElrin/POM one
[14:08:03] <Loetmichel> use
[14:08:10] <Loetmichel> or better two
[14:08:16] <Loetmichel> they can run dry
[14:09:08] <SolarNRG> can u post me one?
[14:09:15] <Rab> SolarNRG, virtually all acme nuts meant for long term duty are brass or some type of plastic, so they don't wear the screw excessively. You would rather replace the nut periodically than wear down both the nut and the screw.
[14:09:31] <SolarNRG> so why did the engineering shop stock a steel one?
[14:09:40] <Loetmichel> or use a mix of epoxy/ urethane resin and talcum powder and cast your nuts
[14:09:55] <Loetmichel> ... they will live nearly forever... BTDT
[14:10:04] <SolarNRG> btdt?
[14:10:07] <Rab> It might be intended for a non-mechanized or low-repetition application, like some type of screw jack.
[14:10:17] <Loetmichel> because a steel one can transfer much greater forces... that you dont need ;-)
[14:10:32] <pcw_home> cast your nuts?
[14:10:35] <Loetmichel> Been there, done that
[14:10:47] <Loetmichel> pcw_home: acme nuts, not the ones between your legs ;-)
[14:10:51] <malcom2073> hey-oh
[14:11:10] <SolarNRG> so what do I need to make a couple of castings then?
[14:11:31] <Loetmichel> i used a 35mm flim box and an acme threaded rod
[14:11:34] <Loetmichel> -> done ;-)
[14:11:44] <SolarNRG> my acme thread is 33mm diam
[14:11:50] <SolarNRG> that gives 1mm each side not much give
[14:12:02] <Connor> PVC Pipe?
[14:12:09] <Loetmichel> make a fitting hole in the bottom, sit it centeed over the rod, spray the rod with silicone pooil first...
[14:12:15] <Loetmichel> poir the resin...
[14:12:28] <Loetmichel> wait for it to harden, screw the nut off the rod
[14:12:31] <SolarNRG> silicone pooil, woah owah anme me some brands
[14:12:48] <Loetmichel> slightly trun it concentric on the lathe: done
[14:12:58] <SolarNRG> I don't have a lathe
[14:13:06] <CaptHindsight> where is he going to get a selection of urethane resin to pour?
[14:13:18] <Loetmichel> SolarNRG: i used 10mm rods
[14:13:44] <Loetmichel> so just get a fitting and disposable plastic container for your threaded rod
[14:13:52] <Rab> SolarNRG, cast in a pipe + flange, then you have an easy mounting method: http://www.polyprocessing.com/images/uploads/flange-adapter.jpg
[14:13:56] <CaptHindsight> how does he know what tensile strength, flex mod and elongation to choose?
[14:13:59] <Loetmichel> i used sika G27
[14:14:24] <SolarNRG> rab that looks pretty much exactly what I need
[14:14:38] <Loetmichel> but that is VERY fast (two minutes "pot" time) , so i reccomend a slower hardening one for a first try ;-)
[14:14:39] <CaptHindsight> a hunk of delrin and a acme tap would be easier
[14:14:53] <Rab> CaptHindsight, probably cheaper too.
[14:15:17] <Rab> Epoxy resin isn't cheap.
[14:15:24] <SolarNRG> i got a tonne of it from the marina
[14:15:44] <Loetmichel> CaptHindsight: the nice thin on the cast ones is that the talc in the resin "lubicates" the nut
[14:15:49] <Loetmichel> so it can run dry as well
[14:15:52] <SolarNRG> its cheaper from the marina than the diy store, they only sell little araldite tubes marina sells gallon jugs
[14:15:54] <Loetmichel> and with nearly no wear
[14:16:29] <CaptHindsight> delrin comes in ~100 variations, some blends have teflon
[14:16:37] <Loetmichel> i said "resin mixed with talc powder" for a reason
[14:16:51] <SolarNRG> epoxy/talc composite?
[14:16:54] <CaptHindsight> SolarNRG: what do you have for suppliers in your area?
[14:17:05] <Loetmichel> i agree, a delrin nut would bne easier
[14:17:26] <Loetmichel> SolarNRG: Urethane talc in my case ;-)
[14:19:36] <SolarNRG> there's a builders yard that sells blocks bricks u name it, there's a scrap heap full of as much steel, shell casings, mortar casings u can desire. there's an engineering shop that has some acme thread in store, there's a marina taht has lots of boating repair stuff, there's a diy store that has hole saws and angle grinder disks. There's a posh diy store like 30 mile away that has the expensive 2 axis vice and the only endmill they had was a 4.5mm o
[14:19:36] <SolarNRG> ne I put in my dremmel and cooked it in 3 seconds flat. there's a lidl that once sold a welder. there's a homestore that has loads of cheap crap consumer items where I got my drill press from :) umm oh yeah there's an industrial area I got some stainless steel pipe from
[14:20:24] <SolarNRG> oh and there's a bakery that sells real nice chocolate croissants :)
[14:23:35] <SolarNRG> Oh and my only option of getting stuff off the internet is either western union or asking someone to order something in for me and they take a cut cos I don't have a card only a bank book
[14:23:47] <SolarNRG> bank won't give me a card
[14:24:54] <SolarNRG> A lot of the time I drive around and I buy something and it's either too big or too small or too weak or not ideal and I spend a lot of time trying to make 2 things link together
[14:25:46] <SolarNRG> TBH I can't wait for the day I have a fully operational CNC so I can make my own stuff from old scrap welded together then I won't have to rely on other suppliers may or may not having what I need/want in store
[14:27:21] <SolarNRG> Right now the best three tools I got are the drill press, angle grinder and arc welder
[14:36:38] <renesis> i want a band saw
[14:36:44] <renesis> having a cnc makes you want a bandsaw
[14:37:04] <renesis> the place that sells you stock, they totally have a bandsaw
[14:37:16] <SolarNRG> they do
[14:37:36] <SolarNRG> its about 450 euros
[14:56:15] <SolarNRG> im off 2 bed l8rs guys thanks for all ur help 2nite
[16:28:05] <Deejay> gn8
[16:44:38] <Aero-Tec> need to put my lathe INI into sim mode for code testing
[16:45:41] <Aero-Tec> how do I get the spindle speed to be set to set S value in code with out a real spindle?
[16:45:50] <Aero-Tec> like in the sim
[16:46:22] <Aero-Tec> thing is I need mt real lathe setup and not the sim one
[16:57:16] <Aero-Tec> looks like it is a HAL thing
[16:57:34] <Aero-Tec> any help would be cool
[17:07:27] <Aero-Tec> broke HAL
[17:07:32] <Aero-Tec> trying to fix
[17:15:06] <Aero-Tec> why will the sim HAL not work with my INI?
[17:35:15] <Aero-Tec> trying to edit sim config
[17:35:40] <Aero-Tec> want to stop tool change movement
[17:36:06] <Aero-Tec> and also stop G54 change when tool is changed
[17:36:33] <Aero-Tec> I program G55 and it goes to G54 after tool change
[17:41:48] <renesis> why not just find and replace g54 with g55
[17:42:18] <renesis> or youre saying the tool changer code is doing it, not the program code
[17:48:08] <Aero-Tec> when doing tool change in Gcode
[17:48:24] <Aero-Tec> the G55 goes to G54
[17:48:36] <Aero-Tec> it is just a sim
[17:48:51] <Aero-Tec> not sure if the lathe is doing it
[17:48:58] <Aero-Tec> will check
[17:49:06] <Aero-Tec> would be very bad if so
[17:50:41] <Aero-Tec> in my lathe INI I have it set so the tool does not move for tool change
[17:50:52] <Aero-Tec> but the sim keeps moving
[17:51:00] <Aero-Tec> I can not stop it
[17:51:28] <Aero-Tec> and when it moves back from tool change it sets G55 to G54
[17:51:51] <Tom_itx> so run it with no tools installed if you can't figure it out
[17:52:33] <Aero-Tec> it is a code test unit for my real code for my real lathe
[17:52:47] <Tom_itx> yeah i figured that
[18:04:06] <Aero-Tec> just stepped through the code
[18:04:35] <Aero-Tec> it is when it goes to the tool change spot that it changes G55 to G54
[18:29:18] <Aero-Tec> how do you stop a tool move when doing a tool change?
[18:29:53] <The_Ball> estop?
[18:32:26] <Aero-Tec> no
[18:32:36] <Aero-Tec> just a simple tool change in Gcode
[18:32:57] <Aero-Tec> the tool in the sim keeps moving to a tool change spot
[18:33:12] <Aero-Tec> on my lathe it does not
[18:35:58] <The_Ball> which sim?
[18:37:52] <Aero-Tec> lathe
[18:38:55] <mrsun> https://scontent-a-ams.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xpa1/v/t1.0-9/10428720_10152907442038648_3800380207230416796_n.jpg?oh=8c4506de5646409f13b5aea089bb18a9&oe=54FF623F yeey my first isolation routing/drilling in the router =)
[18:39:18] <The_Ball> mrsun, that looks nice
[18:39:44] <The_Ball> mrsun, which tool bit did you use?
[18:40:33] <mrsun> 0.3mm engraving bit from cnc-plus.de
[18:40:45] <mrsun> they cut perfect in the copper laminate .. not a single burr =)
[18:44:10] <Rab> mrsun, spiral bit or conical cutter? And what was your spindle speed? Solid results BTW.
[18:45:04] <mrsun> 36degree conical i guess ... https://cnc-plus.de/Engraving-tools/36--tip-Engraving-Bit/?XTCsid=7j10t8laatidfa488q3phitae2
[18:45:17] <mrsun> Rab: 500mm/min and 24000 rpm
[18:46:02] <mrsun> using these bits to engrave anodized aluminium with superb results also =)
[18:47:26] <The_Ball> This PCB was made with a 60 degree bit in a dreme: https://wigen.net/owncloud/public.php?service=files&t=47e7502f11af63c582a736813f9cc3e5
[18:47:54] <mrsun> hand drilled tho ? =)
[18:48:28] <mrsun> this with isolation routing just opened a whole new dimension to my electronics hobby =)
[18:48:41] <mrsun> didnt like the UV light and chemical process realy =)
[18:49:08] <mrsun> now i can do pcbs with hundreds of holes and get near perfect results without even touching chemicals =)
[18:49:29] <The_Ball> mrsun, I don't remember on that one, but I usually use the engraving bit to center drill the holes, then cnc drill them out
[18:49:37] <cpresser> double sided PCBs are hard to do. but thats the same for chemical
[18:49:51] <Rab> mrsun, don't forget dust extraction. Copper and fiberglass aren't much friendlier than toxic chemicals.
[18:49:52] <mrsun> cpresser: locating pins?
[18:50:02] <mrsun> Rab: hehe =)
[18:50:17] <mrsun> well atleast they do not burn eyes for example so you never can see again :P
[18:50:44] <Rab> I use an LPKF Protomat PCB mill which uses two locating pins for registration. You just flip the board on its long axis. Works great.
[18:50:48] <cpresser> mrsun: i usually use the 4 outer holes for that. but still alignment isnt really easy. and you have to put some contacts into the vias yourself
[18:51:19] <mrsun> yeah ... seen presses for rivets but it gets expensive that also =)
[18:51:21] <cpresser> when i need more then 10vias, i usually order a from a board house
[18:51:56] <mrsun> well for prototyping one can solder small wires or something in the holes =)
[18:52:12] <mrsun> 1 of cards isnt exactly dirt cheap :P
[18:52:48] <Rab> Hey, I found a great solution for vias! I use brass jewelry pins like these: http://i.ebayimg.com/00/s/ODAwWDc4Nw==/$%28KGrHqN,!jcE8FFEqqC3BPGhRHBe8w~~60_35.JPG
[18:53:10] <mrsun> i usaly just do jumper wires on the top side .. using the top side in eagle to just "simulate" the jumpers =)
[18:53:10] <Rab> They're very cheap and much easier to solder than bits of wire.
[18:53:31] <cpresser> Rab: interesting.. ill try those
[18:55:07] <Rab> "Head pins" seems to be the technical term.
[18:55:52] <Rab> There are some commercial via rivet systems, but the ones I've found are really expensive and/or hard to source.
[18:56:56] <SpeedEvil> Rab: yeah - very cheap
[18:57:05] <SpeedEvil> Almost as cheap for 10 as a whole PCB
[18:58:13] <Rab> SpeedEvil, your calculus does not match my experience with head pin or PCB pricing.
[19:00:28] <renesis> meh @ 60d half rounds for PCB
[19:00:52] <renesis> maybe for .020 space/trace
[19:01:29] <renesis> http://www.2linc.com/engraving/pyramid_1-8.htm
[19:02:16] <renesis> got those in 30 degrees, .005 tip, .008 space/trace is possible if youre careful, itll do .012 like whatever all day
[19:03:02] <renesis> http://www.2linc.com/engraving/profiler_G_1-8.htm
[19:03:15] <renesis> was using those with .005 tips before the pyramids
[19:04:02] <mrsun> edge quality comparasion ?
[19:04:29] <renesis> well theyre closer to vertical for one thing, more likely to get your actual designed width
[19:04:36] <renesis> sec i see if i can find some old pics
[19:05:58] <Rab> Beware cheap chinese conical cutters on eBay...the tip width doesn't match spec, and they definitely don't cut as well as name-brand cutters.
[19:07:03] <renesis> http://i.imgur.com/Xny4z4A.jpg
[19:07:34] <renesis> think the via drills are .012"
[19:07:48] <renesis> not perfect, but def usable
[19:08:13] <mrsun> is that with pyramid ?
[19:08:17] <renesis> yeah
[19:09:12] <renesis> the 30d half rounds are fine for like .016, still work okay when the tips break off
[19:09:28] <renesis> carbide
[19:09:36] <renesis> break sharp
[19:10:03] <renesis> i wouldnt ever try again that fine
[19:10:18] <renesis> would just get it fabbed
[19:10:42] <mrsun> well prototyping isnt economical to send to fabshops =)
[19:10:58] <renesis> depends on schedules
[19:11:11] <Rab> http://sanantonio.craigslist.org/tls/4773050891.html
[19:11:13] <renesis> lacing the vias in that was hell
[19:11:19] <renesis> i should have made DX do it
[19:11:22] <Rab> So cute, so sad...I'm not even sure it could do pens.
[19:11:51] <renesis> wheres the tool holder
[19:12:07] <renesis> i dont understand that silly lathe at all
[19:12:19] <renesis> too complicated for me
[19:12:41] <Rab> It's for wood, I think there's a tool rest/stop/whatever in the middle.
[20:54:11] <PetefromTn_andro> Evening folks
[21:17:07] <XXCoder> hey
[21:17:16] <XXCoder> how is things PetefromTn_andro
[21:17:48] <PetefromTn_andro> Meh not bad you
[21:17:57] <XXCoder> just chillin. not bad
[21:18:38] <PetefromTn_andro> Finally not feeling dizzy anymore. Just a very little bit occasionally now seems to be getting better.
[21:18:50] <XXCoder> thats good
[21:19:09] <PetefromTn_andro> Sure as hell is
[21:19:45] <PetefromTn_andro> Couldn't get my forced air heater working again unfortunately.
[21:20:05] <PetefromTn_andro> And it's pretty cold lately here
[21:20:28] <XXCoder> doh
[21:20:32] <XXCoder> gonna fix it?
[21:20:33] <PetefromTn_andro> Gonna call tech support tomorrow and see what they say about it.
[21:21:05] <Tom_itx> did you find the CDS cell?
[21:21:05] <PetefromTn_andro> Hopefully they can help me troubleshooting it and maybe send me some parts or something
[21:21:19] <PetefromTn_andro> Cds?
[21:21:24] <Tom_itx> light sensor
[21:21:40] <PetefromTn_andro> I did and removed it and cleaned it
[21:21:59] <Jymm> Pocket flashlight http://www.fasttech.com/products/1601/10005078/1398604-trustfire-tr-s700-7cree-xm-l-t6-1-mode-3800-lumen-
[21:22:09] <PetefromTn_andro> I think it's the main board where the problem is
[21:23:05] <PetefromTn_andro> I did find that there is a larger capacitor and I measured voltage on one side and not the other
[21:23:07] <XXCoder> 3800 lumen
[21:23:18] <XXCoder> dude thats more lumens than my room
[21:23:29] <XXCoder> 3 blubs total 3600 lumens
[21:23:36] <XXCoder> bulbs
[21:23:40] <Jymm> 3? try 6 =)
[21:23:52] <XXCoder> nah my room only has e
[21:23:53] <XXCoder> 3
[21:23:57] <Jymm> ah
[21:24:44] <Jymm> Had a bad accident out here, whe I was directing traffic, the gf said my 800lemuen wasn't that bright. Okey, JUSTIFICATION to get brighter =)
[21:27:03] <PetefromTn_andro> Nice to have a durable reliable bright flashlight that is for sure.
[21:27:04] <Tom_itx> PetefromTn_andro, there would be voltage on one side and not the other
[21:27:17] <Tom_itx> one side would generally be GND
[21:27:33] <PetefromTn_andro> Well then that's what it was I guess it's good.
[21:27:36] <Tom_itx> so that's good
[21:28:36] <PetefromTn_andro> Tried to meter check several things but I am not that great anymore with electronics. Forgot most of what I knew years ago.
[21:29:22] <pfred1> PetefromTn_andro well you either have power some places, or you don't
[21:29:36] <pfred1> it is just a blower motor right?
[21:30:04] <PetefromTn_andro> Yeah I know and there was basically the low voltage side of the whole card is dead.
[21:30:29] <pfred1> so the control electronics then
[21:30:40] <PetefromTn_andro> Well it's a forced air kerosene heater.
[21:30:50] <pfred1> I mean with your electronics and power
[21:31:31] <PetefromTn_andro> No it acted like the whole thing is dead. But it has power to the ac side of the board.
[21:31:48] <pfred1> yes but you say the control board is dead
[21:31:56] <Tom_itx> i'm betting on a relay
[21:32:14] <pfred1> would that stop the pilot light from coming on?
[21:32:23] <PetefromTn_andro> It is all one board
[21:32:29] <Tom_itx> there's a light sensor to see the flame
[21:32:37] <PetefromTn_andro> There is no pilot light
[21:32:49] <pfred1> a power light is called a pilot light
[21:32:50] <Tom_itx> it's a spark igniter
[21:32:53] <XXCoder> https://i.chzbgr.com/maxW500/6210314240/hCD2BAA58/
[21:32:54] <PetefromTn_andro> It has a spark plug of sorts
[21:33:03] <Tom_itx> sorta like a bbq
[21:33:17] <PetefromTn_andro> Yeah there is no red led for power
[21:33:21] <Tom_itx> or hot water heater
[21:33:33] <pfred1> that LED can be called a pilot light or lamp
[21:33:34] <PetefromTn_andro> It stays off
[21:33:39] <PetefromTn_andro> Ok
[21:33:59] <pfred1> first thing I would check is the PSU section of the board
[21:34:08] <pfred1> that LED is not running off of sall current more than likely
[21:34:14] <pfred1> wall current even
[21:34:30] <Tom_itx> i had him trace part of it
[21:34:31] <pfred1> see if you are getting your low voltage at all
[21:34:35] <PetefromTn_andro> It looks like low voltage side
[21:34:44] <Tom_itx> PetefromTn_andro, what V did you get at that cap?
[21:34:55] <PetefromTn_andro> 120vac
[21:35:00] <pfred1> woo
[21:35:19] <Tom_itx> doesn't sound right
[21:35:31] <pfred1> it could be if the board has a little switcher on it
[21:35:35] <Tom_itx> maybe one of the 4 diodes is crap
[21:35:45] <Tom_itx> it's a cheap design
[21:35:47] <PetefromTn_andro> No? I dunno I put the damn thing back together yesterday afternoon
[21:35:53] <Tom_itx> i doubt there's any switcher
[21:35:57] <pfred1> well today little switching supplies are the cheap way out
[21:36:10] <Tom_itx> single sided phenolic board
[21:36:18] <Jymm> Ha http://www.fasttech.com/products/1601/10006644/1519903-ultrafire-lw-9t6-9-cree-xm-l-t6-5-mode-6000lm
[21:36:40] <PetefromTn_andro> I posted pics and information about it yesterday
[21:36:42] <pfred1> real step down xformers cost money
[21:37:00] <PetefromTn_andro> It has a little transformer on it
[21:37:26] <pfred1> yes but it might be for a switching circuit
[21:37:56] <XXCoder> Jymm: dang I love that old style look
[21:38:08] <XXCoder> 6k LM
[21:38:22] <XXCoder> LM isnt same as lumens if I recall but dang bright
[21:38:25] <PetefromTn_andro> I will call them tomorrow morning about it they are closed all weekend. Hopefully they will be able to help me with it
[21:38:43] <Jymm> XXCoder: tail button on that thing.... noooooooooooo
[21:38:59] <XXCoder> well thats definitely not vinage style
[21:39:20] <XXCoder> check this out http://fasttechcdn.com/products/151/1519903/1519903-6.jpg
[21:40:34] <Jymm> Noooooooo
[21:40:36] <pfred1> I can't believe the Packers lost to the Bills
[21:40:54] <XXCoder> seahawks won :) 49 is off the list
[21:41:02] <XXCoder> but man they didnt have good start
[21:41:41] <XXCoder> https://i.chzbgr.com/maxW500/6799196160/hF3B8B381/ mouse with rabies
[21:42:25] <pfred1> the Chinese don't always get their copies 100% right
[21:42:40] <XXCoder> yeah
[21:43:17] <XXCoder> Also, "winner" brand lol
[21:43:29] <XXCoder> It's as bad as "Shifty" bricks brand
[21:43:35] <pfred1> I saw that
[21:44:32] <pfred1> if any company deserves to have its IP ripped off itis Disney though
[21:45:05] <pfred1> every time Mickey is up for going into the public domain copyright law somehow mysteriously gets extended
[21:45:17] <XXCoder> yeah
[21:45:21] <XXCoder> such an annoyance
[21:46:53] <pfred1> actually that mouse is what Disney is like when they protect their IP
[21:47:14] <pfred1> they show their true fangs then
[21:58:02] <XXCoder> not bad
[21:58:06] <PetefromTn_andro> Damn I just heard the annual Christmas drawing on the airgun forum I frequent. I didn't win LOL
[21:59:36] <PetefromTn_andro> Someone got a $2000.00 brand new airgun and scope package for free lucky bastard LOL
[22:03:41] <PetefromTn_andro> Well. Night folks.
[22:03:46] <pfred1> nite
[22:03:51] <XXCoder> night
[22:04:08] <PetefromTn_andro> Thanks for the help with that forced air heater
[22:04:39] <PetefromTn_andro> Will try to get it sorted tomorrow with technical support
[22:04:50] <PetefromTn_andro> Gn8
[22:04:53] <pfred1> they'll tell you to replace the board
[22:05:04] <Tom_itx> i'm nearly sure of that
[22:05:15] <PetefromTn_andro> That's fine it is easy to do
[22:05:18] <pfred1> or bring it to an authorized service center
[22:05:37] <PetefromTn_andro> Hopefully the board will be cheap
[22:05:48] <pfred1> oh it'll be cheap
[22:05:55] <pfred1> how inespensive it will be is another matter
[22:06:03] <pfred1> inexpensive even
[22:06:09] <PetefromTn_andro> The whole thing was only like$175.00 or so
[22:06:33] <PetefromTn_andro> But it is a great little heater
[22:06:57] <PetefromTn_andro> Really knocked the chill off in the morning quickly
[22:07:10] <pfred1> I have a block heater
[22:07:18] <pfred1> I don't use it indoors though
[22:07:38] <PetefromTn_andro> It I can't fix it I guess it's buy another one used or new depends on price.
[22:07:54] <pfred1> the radiant panels are nice
[22:08:23] <pfred1> people usually hang them on the wall
[22:08:27] <PetefromTn_andro> I have several different electronic heaters but nothing else works as quickly
[22:08:37] <pfred1> oh yeah panels are slow
[22:09:07] <pfred1> my block heater could get it up to like 120F in about 5 minutes
[22:09:15] <PetefromTn_andro> 15 minutes and it is warm in the shop no matter how cold it is outside
[22:10:07] <pfred1> going cold to warm and back you don't have condensation problems?
[22:10:08] <PetefromTn_andro> Then the onboard thermostat shuts it off and my electronic heaters take over unless I open the garage door or something
[22:10:28] <PetefromTn_andro> Not really
[22:10:48] <PetefromTn_andro> The building is insulted
[22:11:24] <PetefromTn_andro> But the shop doors are not so that and the concrete slab make it kinda chilly in the morning
[22:12:00] <pfred1> warm air holds more moisture then when it gets cold the moisture comes out of the air sometimes
[22:19:49] <pfred1> OK so I was running the axis splash screen again to test out my machine and I was really careful touching off to make sure the pen just barely touched the paper
[22:20:09] <pfred1> then when the file ran it jambed the pen hard into the paper
[22:20:21] <pfred1> is there like an offset that made that happen?
[22:21:23] <pfred1> like should i be using a negative number with my offset just to make sure the pen does not hit the paper too hard?
[22:28:12] <XXCoder> pfred1: basically temp of air is size of "cup". amount of water in air is of course water in "cup". it tends to rain more often in afternoon because cooling air takes close to 100% to over 100%
[22:28:26] <XXCoder> over 100% cup overflows and we get rain
[22:30:35] <pfred1> you are trying to explain the dew point it sounds like
[22:37:59] <XXCoder> ahh never ehard that term
[22:38:30] <XXCoder> pfred1: I was just mostly explaining the nice cup analog
[22:39:56] <pfred1> the dew point is the temperature where mousture will precipitate out of the atmosphere
[22:40:16] <XXCoder> yeah already read wiki heh
[22:41:02] <pfred1> you can measure it by twirling a wet bulb thermometer around or something
[22:41:14] <pfred1> been a while since I dealt with it
[22:41:30] <XXCoder> yeah not exactly common thing to do :)
[22:41:54] <pfred1> it is humid where i live
[22:42:24] <pfred1> so if I cycle my shop hot and cold everything rusts
[22:43:14] <XXCoder> fun
[22:43:23] <XXCoder> dont you oil stuff for protection
[22:44:02] <pfred1> ther are many things i do not want oily
[22:44:13] <pfred1> like my electronics tools
[22:44:22] <pfred1> not fun having them an oily mess really
[22:44:37] <XXCoder> true
[22:44:49] <pfred1> I have found that is what WD-40 is good for though
[22:45:00] <pfred1> WD-40 dries then leaves a protective film
[22:45:18] <pfred1> I have tried everything including waxing metal
[22:46:15] <pfred1> WD stands for water displacement
[22:46:44] <pfred1> it was originally developed as a chemical treatment for long term missile part storage
[22:47:42] <pfred1> today people use WD-40 for all sorts of things it really isn't capable of doing but it can keep stuff from rusting pretty well
[22:49:16] <XXCoder> yeah
[22:49:28] <pfred1> I need to buy like a gallon bottle of it because in the aerosol can it really isn't economical that way
[22:49:47] <XXCoder> indeed its possible to do so. I used a lot at work in least once lol
[22:49:56] <pfred1> though that is how I've been using it lately
[22:50:22] <pfred1> yeah the big box stores have gallon cans for like $20
[22:50:49] <pfred1> it just seems somewhat extreme to me but objectively I really do have to break down and just do it
[22:51:24] <pfred1> as a lube or rust penetrant WD-40 is worthless
[22:51:40] <pfred1> but I have to say everything I've treated has not rusted on me
[22:51:53] <XXCoder> unfortunate yeah but then is there a way to control mosture in your tool place?
[22:52:03] <pfred1> yeah i could move to a desert
[22:52:33] <pfred1> my shop is well built insulated etc. but the humidity where i live is extreme
[22:52:46] <pfred1> it can run in the high 90s all summer long
[22:52:57] <pfred1> like 95% humidity
[22:53:16] <pfred1> in fact humidity gauges end up breaking here
[22:53:27] <pfred1> I have a couple and they are all stuck pinned
[22:54:02] <XXCoder> http://homeguides.sfgate.com/put-storage-building-keep-moisture-down-47164.html
[22:54:30] <pfred1> I live 6 miles from the ocean and not too far drom the world's biggest bay too
[22:54:44] <pfred1> I am basically in the middle of water here
[22:55:06] <XXCoder> I don't live 6 miles from ocean
[22:55:13] <XXCoder> I live 1 mile away from ocean
[22:55:27] <XXCoder> I see it everyday as I drive home
[22:55:35] <pfred1> yeah do you have a bay on the other side of you?
[22:55:53] <XXCoder> really I don't see it anymore. I lived here for 2 years now lol
[22:56:09] <XXCoder> actually I live near tacoma port - pudget sound
[22:56:20] <XXCoder> its pretty huge dock
[22:56:37] <XXCoder> I also drive though fife on way to work, it has even more
[22:57:25] <XXCoder> Dehumidifier seems best option. if you add hose pump to some large tank or outside it can keep your space dry year around
[22:57:35] <XXCoder> as long as powered it shouldnt need much maintance
[22:58:22] <pfred1> I can buy a lot of WD-40 for what a dehumidifier would set me back
[22:59:11] <XXCoder> lets see what our chinese shit friends has for Dehumidifier
[22:59:43] <pfred1> I even paint some tools to keep them from rusting
[22:59:57] <pfred1> like cold chisels i paint those
[23:00:16] <pfred1> I painted all of my hammers too
[23:00:33] <pfred1> I got tired ot playing with dirty, rusty hammers, and chisels
[23:00:42] <XXCoder> what the heck http://www.aliexpress.com/item/Damp-Moisture-Absorber-Egg-Dehumidifying-Dehumidifiers-Home-Air-Dryer-NI5L/2044397901.html
[23:00:56] <XXCoder> its apparently rechargable by microwave
[23:01:04] <pfred1> dessicant
[23:01:25] <pfred1> like silica gel
[23:01:37] <pfred1> those packages that come inside stuff that say DO NOT EAT
[23:01:46] <XXCoder> apparently
[23:01:59] <XXCoder> lol there is shoe dryer thing
[23:02:12] <pfred1> AFAIK you can bake silica gel and it has dessicating properties again
[23:02:47] <XXCoder> I suppose it can be dried by sun too
[23:02:56] <XXCoder> if so it could be useful in sunny summer
[23:03:03] <pfred1> yeah in the sun stuff dries here
[23:03:08] <XXCoder> bake it off then seal em for more wet days
[23:03:31] <XXCoder> not much savings from aliexpress
[23:03:57] <pfred1> that is the problem really in the morning everything has dew all over it and as the day wears on the sun bakes that moisture into the air
[23:04:33] <XXCoder> http://www.silicagelpackets.com/dry-packs-dehumidifier-products-canisters-boxes/dry-packs-dehumidifier-boxes-200-450-900-gram/900-gram-silica-gel-dehumidifier-box.html lol
[23:04:53] <XXCoder> that bad
[23:05:04] <XXCoder> your room might have water issues
[23:05:23] <XXCoder> you sould try mosture pump. its not easy to do but...
[23:05:31] <pfred1> well it is just a problem in the area
[23:05:38] <XXCoder> basically you warm room to around 90f
[23:05:48] <XXCoder> then push all that wet warm air outside
[23:05:53] <XXCoder> get dry cold air in
[23:05:58] <pfred1> heh
[23:05:58] <XXCoder> do couple times
[23:06:09] <pfred1> that's the problem the air outside is wet
[23:06:13] <XXCoder> I do same for my van. keeps it very dry
[23:08:24] <XXCoder> nice thing is no glass fog inside (or ice versions on cold days!)
[23:10:50] <XXCoder> anyway
[23:10:54] <XXCoder> night :)
[23:11:00] <pfred1> nite
[23:11:11] <XXCoder> maybe there is criaglist deals on dryers
[23:11:17] <XXCoder> Dehumidifier