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[00:06:37] <unfy> going thrhough it, looks like they've moved on to bigger and bigger stuff :P
[00:07:46] <The_Ball> not a complete failure:
https://wigen.net/owncloud/public.php?service=files&t=9ae3b1348e5da943fd497541b23f1734
[00:08:32] <unfy> :D
[01:30:12] <unfy> coworker brought in the system i'm buying for $20 as a linuxcnc box. athlon xp2800+ - getting 7532/9071 max jitter :D
[02:13:43] <Deejay> moin
[02:14:48] <unfy> o/
[02:15:04] <Deejay> :)
[02:18:12] <unfy> ordered some cheap 5mm->8mm shaft couplers
[07:37:45] <zoni1983> hi i had a problem yesterday
[07:38:02] <zoni1983> i have a machine with dc motors
[07:38:30] <zoni1983> i installed 5i20 with 7i33
[07:39:27] <zoni1983> it has been working fine with linuxcnc 2.5.4 for last 2 weeks other than some times keyboard stop responding
[07:40:37] <zoni1983> yesterday while machining the z axis wrose about 10 mm and then plunger into the material at hight speed
[07:41:59] <zoni1983> the keyboard did not worked neither e-stop connected to 7i37 nor the feed override worked we have to turn off machine power
[07:42:19] <zoni1983> how can this happen
[07:43:03] <CaptHindsight> sounds like you didn't wire the e-stop properly, e-stop should work even if you throw the PC out the window during operation
[07:44:09] <zoni1983> why did machine plunged into material when it was not in program
[07:44:49] <zoni1983> any ideas
[07:44:54] <XXCoder> was it where it was supposed to go up?
[07:44:57] <CaptHindsight> if it's a usb keyboard maybe that port or usb hub stopped working, did the keyboard still have power when the system wasn't responding?
[07:45:17] <zoni1983> ok
[07:45:55] <zoni1983> no it was not supppsed to go up
[07:46:30] <XXCoder> ok. I was wondering if it was program error
[07:46:37] <CaptHindsight> how long has this system been working properly? Is this new installation?
[07:46:42] <CaptHindsight> a new
[07:47:06] <zoni1983> no i have checked program it was fine
[07:47:46] <XXCoder> im at end of ideas sorry. hope you solve it!
[07:47:48] <zoni1983> i restarted the machine and run the same program again nothing happened
[07:47:57] <XXCoder> keyboard cutouts is bit odd though
[07:48:13] <XXCoder> makes me wonder if it dont have enough power or something
[07:48:16] <CaptHindsight> bad mainboard maybe
[07:48:26] <XXCoder> capt or insuffecent powerbox
[07:48:56] <CaptHindsight> what Linuxcnc install is this? we still don't knw if the system has ever worked right or if it just acted up all of a sudden
[07:49:08] <zoni1983> has anybody even seen some thing like this
[07:49:47] <zoni1983> it is 2.5.4
[07:50:48] <CaptHindsight> can't help if you don't answer the questions
[07:50:55] <zoni1983> after installation for two weeks it wroked fine
[07:51:07] <CaptHindsight> e-stop is also wired wrong, not sure what else
[07:52:17] <zoni1983> e-stop might be but accident shouldnt have happened in the first place
[07:52:30] <zoni1983> CaptHindsight: what is ur question
[07:53:19] <XXCoder> CaptHindsight: he said it worked for 2 weeks twice
[07:53:52] <renesis> i dont even have an estop
[07:54:12] <renesis> i have a spindle power switch and the escape on my keyboard
[07:55:10] <zoni1983> what if computer stops responding or get held can this happen
[07:55:44] <renesis> ive had mad slow response to jogs
[07:56:06] <zoni1983> CaptHindsight: i have worked on machine for 15 days continuously with any accident
[07:56:11] <renesis> stopping and starting jogs, but its pretty consistent, dont think its ever ignored me completely
[07:56:31] <renesis> zoni1983: had you run this code before?
[07:56:48] <CaptHindsight> "neither e-stop connected to 7i37 nor the feed override worked"
[07:57:04] <zoni1983> no but after accident i run it again worked fine
[07:57:24] <renesis> so prob not code
[07:58:09] <renesis> check jitter for a day
[07:58:38] <renesis> if it spikes stupid high maybe your board or hardware setup has some intermittent problem
[07:58:43] <zoni1983> CaptHindsight: i ment that both e-stop and feed override connnected to 7i37 did not worked ( not from keyboard)
[07:59:03] <renesis> osounds like pc got stuck
[07:59:08] <Valen> keyboard can lose focus
[07:59:21] <Valen> your keystrokes wont go to emc if the mouse isn't over the emc window
[07:59:23] <renesis> heh, that sucks
[07:59:33] <renesis> is it sloppy focus by default?
[07:59:34] <Valen> random plunge could be bad encoder signals
[07:59:45] <Valen> i think focus follows mouse by default
[07:59:49] <renesis> gnome is click by default i think
[07:59:50] <zoni1983> renesis: if pc gets stuck can it cause accident
[08:00:03] <renesis> zoni1983: yes possibly
[08:00:10] <Valen> zoni1983: that shouldn't happen with mesa hardware
[08:00:20] <CaptHindsight> have to decipher the info first due to the language barrier, then try to make sense of the info
[08:00:36] <Valen> if it doesn't get poked every so often the mesa cards have an internal watchdog timer that will shut them down if its not poked often enough
[08:00:41] <CaptHindsight> just a suggestion
[08:00:51] <renesis> how often is the watchdog?
[08:00:58] <renesis> ms? seconds?
[08:01:07] <Valen> don't know the default I presume in the 10's of msec range
[08:01:15] <Valen> if you have a serious machine you should have an external estop switch (or two) that signals EMC directly
[08:01:24] <Valen> we have one that kills power to the servo drives
[08:01:31] <zoni1983> Valen: do we have to activate it
[08:01:35] <renesis> if its a safety hazard would be good practice
[08:01:43] <Valen> I believe its there by default
[08:01:44] <renesis> my mill is tiny
[08:02:03] <Valen> running away is typically the result of a servo not getting feedback
[08:02:46] <Valen> IE the mill is hovering and it gets a bit of error, so it tries to correct, nothing happens, so the I winds up pushing harder and harder
[08:02:54] <Valen> then it goes bang and something breaks
[08:03:03] <Valen> we also have fuses in our motor lines
[08:05:11] <renesis> for stalls?
[08:05:13] <Valen> it wont trip out on ferror because it thinks the mill is .1mm away from setpoint
[08:05:17] <zoni1983> Valen: if in my machine in normal condition the axis moves more than 0.5mm i get a joint followong error and power to servo is disconnected
[08:05:21] <Valen> and oscilation
[08:05:39] <Valen> zoni1983: and if the encoder is disconnected what happens?
[08:06:30] <zoni1983> Valen: if the encoder is disconnected again i get joint following error
[08:06:38] <renesis> if lcnc gets a stream of pulses does it ever lock up ui?
[08:06:41] <Valen> how do you get a following error?
[08:06:52] <Valen> if the axis is not being commanded to move
[08:06:54] <renesis> like, dealing with the servos, ignores the keyboard
[08:07:14] <renesis> maybe its em interference or bad connection
[08:07:44] <zoni1983> if axis is commanded and encoder is not connected then i get error
[08:08:15] <Valen> zoni1983: again axis is not commanded
[08:08:26] <Valen> you have told it to sit at 23.22mm
[08:08:29] <renesis> yeah im saying maybe it got some sort of rf interference that lcnc thought was encoder pulses
[08:08:31] <Valen> it drives there and sits there
[08:09:05] <Valen> but it never quite sits at 23.22 it sits at 23.23 or 23.21
[08:09:18] <Valen> its sitting at 23.23 then the encoder gets disconnected
[08:09:33] <Valen> the integral term in your PID loop builds up
[08:09:46] <Valen> so the motor is commanded to move with ever increasing power
[08:09:59] <Valen> then it goes bang
[08:10:27] <renesis> he says normally it just gives up after half mm tho
[08:10:47] <renesis> i think it was solir flares
[08:10:51] <renesis> solar
[08:10:58] <renesis> whatever im going to sleep
[08:11:16] <Valen> renesis: without the feedback it doesn't know it has moved at all
[08:11:22] <Valen> http://linuxcnc.org/docs/html/drivers/hostmot2.html#_watchdog
[08:11:29] <zoni1983> Valen: in my case machine is working fine and then it wrose 15mm smmothly and then plungef down 15 mm
[08:11:33] <Valen> its 1 second by default on the watchdog
[08:11:40] <renesis> oh ha
[08:11:44] <renesis> yeah thats pretty long
[08:12:02] <Valen> did you check your G-code zoni1983?
[08:12:14] <zoni1983> yes
[08:12:17] <renesis> did you check modal gcodes?
[08:12:33] <renesis> maybe you had your default planes setup wrong
[08:12:37] <zoni1983> i ran it again it worked fine next time
[08:12:48] <renesis> and you were in normal XYZ orientation
[08:12:52] <Valen> I'd be investigating your encoder wiring
[08:12:55] <renesis> did you restart lcnc?
[08:13:16] <renesis> so you machine was going to go Y but it did Z, or something
[08:13:33] <Valen> the worst we have had happen is very occasionally it'll get mixed up and wont reset the cordinates right
[08:13:48] <renesis> but you restarted and it reset the model command so next time it when Y when the code said Y
[08:14:02] <Valen> the only uncommanded movements we have had were the result of our encoders dying
[08:14:44] <Valen> anyway past my bed time
[08:15:00] <Valen> oh we have 5i23 and 7i somethingorother as well ;->
[08:20:18] <zoni1983> sorry was disconnected
[08:22:24] <zoni1983> one more problem i have is that if i a given point to point data for circle or bend machine axis does not move smothly on even 1 meter
[08:24:08] <zoni1983> does traj-period effect it
[08:27:27] <zoni1983> does traj-period effect the smoth motion of axis
[08:27:49] <ekacnet> pcw_home: so by default I have current-minlim 0.5A current-maxlim 0.5A and current-scalemax 0.5
[08:32:12] <zoni1983> zoni1983: does traj-period effect the smoth motion of axis
[08:38:51] <zoni1983> zoni1983: does traj-period effect the smoth motion of axis
[08:45:15] <Swapper> i had a freak thing happen on my mill, where running remote desktop to a other computer and it disconnected the session and that made a box popup in the middle of me pushing the -z button, problem where that it did not stop!
[08:45:23] <Swapper> so the focus handling is not all that OK
[09:18:57] <pcw_home> watchdog default is 10 ms
[09:20:09] <pcw_home> (its set in nS in the hal file)
[09:24:38] <Jymm> pcw_home: Whatcha think? $99 at Frys this week...
http://www.amazon.com/KORAD-KA3005D-Precision-Adjustable-Regulated/dp/B0084JFWNY
[09:27:57] <pcw_home> We have some similar ones, they are OK but not great (they are linear supplies with relay selection of transformer secondary taps when you change the output voltage)
[09:28:24] <pcw_home> we have the 60V 5A and 30V 10A models
[09:28:38] <ekacnet> pcw_home: so concerning the current why mincur is actually negative by default ? is it because it's alternative
[09:28:48] <Jymm> I read that on a different model too, but no mention of relays in this one.
[09:29:13] <pcw_home> current can be either polarity
[09:29:13] <Jymm> Relays -->
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00EUH18DC/ref=pd_luc_rh_sbs_02_02_t_lh?ie=UTF8&psc=1
[09:29:47] <pcw_home> maybe the low power ones dont have the relays
[09:30:22] <pcw_home> Hmm does it have a fan? (the ones we have do and its a nuisance)
[09:30:35] <Jymm> Actually the Frys one is 0-30V@5A, the relay one is 0-18V@3A
[09:31:08] <Jymm> It does have a fan, thermally controlled I believe
[09:31:11] <ekacnet> pcw_home: so mincur should be just the opposite sign of maxcur right ?
[09:31:46] <ekacnet> there is no interest to have min cur set to 1A and maxcur to 5A for instance ?
[09:31:55] <pcw_home> Yes and the default will be 7.5A (unless you chenge the EEPROM setting)
[09:32:41] <ekacnet> well I haven't changed th eeprom but the value returned by the HAL by default are 0.5A
[09:32:45] <pcw_home> For any standard use they should be symmetrical
[09:32:54] <pcw_home> not possible
[09:33:13] <ekacnet> ok I'll recheck then
[09:34:05] <pcw_home> Well its possible but very unlikely
[09:35:32] <ekacnet> I need also some guidance on brakeonv brakeoffv
[09:35:48] <pcw_home> no need to touch it
[09:36:07] <ekacnet> I have a motor but I don't know much about it
[09:36:48] <pcw_home> well you migh need to lower them is you are not using a ~350 VDC power supply
[09:38:09] <pcw_home> it is possible to have some good hal protection from broken encoder runaways especially with velocity mode drives
[09:38:33] <ekacnet> how ?
[09:38:58] <ekacnet> the idea is to avoid to fry the motor or having it not undercontrol
[09:40:59] <pcw_home> you set the PID maxoutput pin to ~2x commanded velocity +say 250 RPM and then monitor the PID saturated pin (and fault if PID is saturated)
[09:41:00] <pcw_home> The idea is that runaways can hurt someone
[10:04:29] <PetefromTn_> yup hurt and scare the crap out of you ask me how I know LOL
[10:29:51] * Cylly just solved his second thoughte when looking at the new psu case we made... usually we just crack the plastic psu and put the pc with some PE foam around into the aluminium enclosure. ... but this model was a BIT wide... and had 230V traces on the corner of the pcb.. so i desinged the pVC "holder" to isolate it.. -> http://www.cyrom.org/palbum/main.php?g2_itemId=15433 MUCH better ;-)
[10:31:59] <Cylly> ... it easily doubles the price of the psu for milling tiome, but who cares in military stuff anyway ;-)
[10:54:34] <tjtr33> what was the name of the linuxcnc user in Taipei?
[10:54:51] <tjtr33> he had a business
[10:55:07] <tjtr33> yishin something?
[10:56:07] <tjtr33> got it :)
[11:07:09] <ReadError> Jymm
[11:07:13] <ReadError> I have 2 of those
[11:07:17] <ReadError> served me great so far
[11:07:30] <ReadError> use 1 on my hot wire, the other for electronic stuff
[11:07:33] <Jymm> ReadError: how long have you had them?
[11:07:43] <ReadError> 1st probably a year maybe
[11:07:51] <ReadError> used almost daily
[11:07:58] <Jymm> cool
[11:08:30] <ReadError> I got a rigol 832 recently on black friday
[11:08:44] <ReadError> but still use the korad for some stuff
[11:10:17] <ReadError> the different pre programmed things are nice on the korad
[11:10:23] <ReadError> vs some of the other ones in that range
[11:25:30] <zeeshan|2> note to all canadians
[11:25:34] <zeeshan|2> automationdirect is the BEST
[11:25:44] <zeeshan|2> orders over 49 dollars get free shipping to canada using 2 day fedex
[11:25:53] <zeeshan|2> on top of that, they do your brokerage for you, so you dont get raped on the border
[11:26:03] <zeeshan|2> ive used them 3 times now, and they're awesome!
[11:35:37] <PetefromTn_> They look like a big operation. Nice to hear you got good service from them.
[11:36:40] <zeeshan|2> i think its the closest to me feeling like im in the USA
[11:36:51] <zeeshan|2> like you guys can get your mcmaster carr orders in 1 or 2 days @ most locations
[11:36:51] <PetefromTn_> hehe
[11:36:54] <zeeshan|2> we never get that :/
[11:37:22] <PetefromTn_> yeah Mcmaster Carr is amazing. I USUALLY get my parts overnight unless it is the weekend.
[11:37:47] <roycroft> keep in mind that usps 2 day priority mail is taking 4 days right now, and both fedex and ups shipments are commonly slipping a day
[11:37:47] <zeeshan|2> haha thats awesome!
[11:37:52] <PetefromTn_> just purchased a .050 radius corner rounding double sided endmill from them for a job I just completed.
[11:38:00] <zeeshan|2> roycroft: hasn't been like that for me
[11:38:02] <roycroft> for the next two weeks that will continue to be the case
[11:38:03] <zeeshan|2> i got it in 2 days
[11:38:03] <PetefromTn_> ordered it Friday but got it Monday
[11:38:19] <PetefromTn_> most of the other times I order I get it the next day.
[11:38:19] <roycroft> i've noticed the slowdown
[11:38:32] <roycroft> and the websites for the various shippers are even indicating that when i track things
[11:38:45] <PetefromTn_> it is a bit more expensive tho to purchase from them sometimes
[11:38:59] <roycroft> not to mention the 40+ minute queue at the post office when i have to pick something up
[11:39:26] <PetefromTn_> I can honestly say that I have never been dissatisfied with an order from them and I have ordered tons of stuff over the years from them.
[11:39:41] <roycroft> mcmaster are a great vendor
[11:40:03] <PetefromTn_> for electronics parts I have enjoyed Galco's service...
[11:40:46] <roycroft> i usually use mouser or digi-key for electronics
[11:40:57] <PetefromTn_> I need to order a little 5c collet indexer right now for a small project on the VMC
[12:21:15] <PetefromTn_> Damn my big forced air heater just died on me...
[12:22:00] <PetefromTn_> just set down on top of another power chord
[12:22:25] <PetefromTn_> and went to pull the chord to get some slack and it dropped off the chord which is like 3/8" thick and it shutoff..
[12:22:36] <PetefromTn_> now I can't get it to turn back on LOL
[12:34:05] <SpeedEvil> Power chords kill so much stuff when you have the amp at 11.
[12:34:34] <PetefromTn_> well the problem was the tiny drop it took off the edge of the chord.
[12:34:47] <PetefromTn_> the whole base is like 3' long by about 1' wide
[12:35:01] <PetefromTn_> so when one edge drops off even that little chord
[12:35:10] <PetefromTn_> it sounds like it fell a couple feet LOL
[12:35:26] <PetefromTn_> Just took it apart trying to determine if I can maybe fix it.
[12:35:47] <PetefromTn_> I wonder if it has a tipover alarm or kill in it that might have gotten tweaked from the drop.
[12:35:54] <jdh> try a g-minor
[12:36:08] <PetefromTn_> ?
[12:36:35] <jdh> it's a chord. Not a very good one though.
[12:36:56] <pcw_home> probably not a power chord
[12:37:02] <jdh> power chords are better in drop d
[12:37:07] <PetefromTn_> you sure are a comedian lately jdh LOL
[12:38:01] <jdh> 13:14 < SpeedEvil> Power chords kill so much stuff when you have the amp at 11.
[12:38:17] <jdh> sure, but you let him slide?
[12:39:15] <zeeshan|2> how come you rarely find solder joints in 110v power distribution? :p
[12:39:21] <PetefromTn_> http://pastebin.com/57Re7t7s Here's my .ini file from the Cincinatti arrow 500
[12:41:13] <PetefromTn_> http://pastebin.com/vuDGvhkk Here's my .hal file for the Cincinatti Arrow 500
[12:41:35] <PetefromTn_> I am trying to figure out what I need to change to get the machines native units to imerial without screwing it up LOL
[12:41:52] <jdh> copy the directory first
[12:42:15] <zeeshan|2> pretty much everything :(
[12:42:25] <jdh> don't see anything unit specific in the hal.
[12:42:32] <PetefromTn_> well I copied the folder Connor made that has all the important stuff for the machine to a flash drive.
[12:42:44] <zeeshan|2> jdh the velocities are in base units..
[12:42:52] <zeeshan|2> so ie his -35 home search vel
[12:42:54] <jdh> just copy it inside the config folder so you can use eithe rone.
[12:42:57] <zeeshan|2> is in mm..
[12:43:03] <jdh> wow, really.
[12:43:07] <zeeshan|2> i dont think he wants to hit 35 inches per min
[12:43:13] <zeeshan|2> by simply changing the unit
[12:43:14] <zeeshan|2> :P
[12:43:17] <PetefromTn_> yeah it is all metric natively
[12:43:31] <jdh> z: how many of those are in the hal
[12:43:33] <PetefromTn_> so I am going to need to change quite a bit of stuff I suppose
[12:43:40] <zeeshan|2> are you trolling
[12:43:41] <zeeshan|2> i cant tell
[12:43:45] <zeeshan|2> :P
[12:43:46] <PetefromTn_> but I REALLY REALLY need to do this
[12:44:02] <jthornton> LINEAR_UNITS = <units> - Specifies the machine units for linear axes. Possible choices are (in, inch, imperial, metric, mm). This does not affect the linear units in NC code (the G20 and G21 words do this).
[12:44:19] <jthornton> http://linuxcnc.org/docs/html/config/ini_config.html#sub:TRAJ-section
[12:44:27] <zeeshan|2> yea
[12:44:32] <zeeshan|2> but you cant just change linear_units to in
[12:44:33] <PetefromTn_> sure I see that.
[12:44:35] <zeeshan|2> and expect it to work.
[12:44:39] <PetefromTn_> exactly
[12:44:41] <zeeshan|2> pete's asking what else you need to change
[12:44:51] <zeeshan|2> honestly i think the answer to that is.. wherever you see a number
[12:44:56] <zeeshan|2> you'll need to do a conversion :P
[12:44:57] <jthornton> nope you need to scale a bunch of stuff
[12:45:09] <jdh> just linear's, not angulars. so, most but not quite all.
[12:45:18] <PetefromTn_> yeah
[12:45:23] <jdh> fire up 'units' in a terminal, copy/paste
[12:45:29] <pcw_home> Yes and your PID tuning will change also
[12:45:47] <PetefromTn_> my question is basically that is everything pertinent to this change contained in the hal and ini files or is it inside linuxCNC somehow now.
[12:45:59] <zeeshan|2> depends
[12:46:01] <jdh> just the .ini
[12:46:04] <PetefromTn_> FUCK that sucks...
[12:46:06] <zeeshan|2> sometimes the .hal has [axis] stuff
[12:46:49] <jdh> are you trolling?
[12:46:50] <PetefromTn_> why does it affect the pid tuning>
[12:46:53] <zeeshan|2> no jdh
[12:47:05] <zeeshan|2> stepconf generates a bunch of sdkljsadlj.[axis].sadakjsad 90231908123
[12:47:10] <zeeshan|2> that goes in the hal
[12:47:22] <zeeshan|2> i dont have my config in front of me
[12:47:28] <zeeshan|2> thats why i cant give a specific example :P
[12:47:51] <zeeshan|2> i lied
[12:47:56] <zeeshan|2> i forgot, i backed it up on the desktop
[12:48:23] <PetefromTn_> God I wish we did not make this thing metric to begin with. What were we thinking..
[12:48:39] <pcw_home> because the PID inputs are in machine units and typically people dont know enough to set the PID outputs to be also be in machine units
[12:48:43] <zeeshan|2> nm
[12:48:44] <jdh> wouldn't it be better to give a specific example from the .hal file he just posted rather than yours?
[12:48:45] <zeeshan|2> i think you might be OK
[12:48:47] <zeeshan|2> setp stepgen.0.maxaccel [AXIS_0]STEPGEN_MAXACCEL
[12:48:52] <zeeshan|2> its referring to the .ini
[12:49:13] <zeeshan|2> but its really easy to put a number there
[12:49:16] <zeeshan|2> instead of referring to the ini
[12:49:19] <zeeshan|2> so i'd check hal files too
[12:50:11] <PetefromTn_> so basically I'm screwed here...
[12:50:52] <zeeshan|2> can you not swap to inches
[12:50:54] <zeeshan|2> in the gui?
[12:50:54] <PetefromTn_> all I need really is to make the damn tool table settings output imperial instead of metric. everything else basically works fine..
[12:51:00] <pcw_home> No, but its something that needs to be done carefully (and dont touch your original files)
[12:51:00] <zeeshan|2> oh
[12:51:04] <PetefromTn_> sure the GUI is showing inches
[12:51:16] <PetefromTn_> but the damn tool table is metric
[12:51:27] <zeeshan|2> i guess that can get annoying
[12:51:28] <zeeshan|2> haha
[12:51:48] <PetefromTn_> we thought making it metric innate would be better since the screws are basically metric
[12:52:23] <pcw_home> not necessary...
[12:52:25] <PetefromTn_> but that was a massive mistake because I have some kinda hoodoo programming that makes the display SOMEWHAT imperial and other parts stay metric
[12:52:31] <zeeshan|2> well you know 25.4 mm = 1 inch
[12:52:37] <zeeshan|2> so you can go back and forth no prob
[12:52:50] <zeeshan|2> i set mine up in inches
[12:52:53] <zeeshan|2> even though the screws are imperial
[12:52:54] <zeeshan|2> er
[12:52:56] <zeeshan|2> metric
[12:53:02] <PetefromTn_> for instance right now upon startup the sliders labels are all metric
[12:53:11] <zeeshan|2> pete that's cool that your cinci uses metric screws
[12:53:14] <zeeshan|2> and it's made in usa?
[12:53:30] <PetefromTn_> until you go into machine and select mm then back to inch and it switches
[12:53:39] <PetefromTn_> I have to do this every time I start the damn machine.
[12:53:44] <zeeshan|2> im pretty sure you can change start up units
[12:53:48] <PetefromTn_> machine was made in Birmingham england
[12:53:49] <zeeshan|2> how to do it, i dont know :)
[12:54:03] <jdh> the .ini doesn't look too bad
[12:54:06] <PetefromTn_> I just need to get it fixed right now
[12:54:13] <jdh> and your PID stuff isn't so complicated either
[12:54:14] <zeeshan|2> PetefromTn_:
[12:54:17] <zeeshan|2> add this in your ini
[12:54:20] <zeeshan|2> under [DISPLAY]
[12:54:32] <zeeshan|2> actually nm
[12:54:32] <zeeshan|2> :P
[12:54:39] <zeeshan|2> i dont wanna screw your machine up
[12:54:39] <zeeshan|2> haha
[12:54:46] <PetefromTn_> neither do I
[12:55:01] <PetefromTn_> the damn thing works really good right now other than these annoyances
[12:55:17] <zeeshan|2> jdh i think it looks easy to convert the units
[12:55:24] <PetefromTn_> is there a way to just change the damn tool table editor to imperial?
[12:55:26] <zeeshan|2> with the execpetion of PID FF etc
[12:55:26] <jdh> it does, just annoying
[12:55:33] <zeeshan|2> i'm not sure how those would scale
[12:55:39] <zeeshan|2> div 25.4 ?
[12:55:48] <zeeshan|2> for p
[12:55:54] <zeeshan|2> i div by vel?
[12:56:00] <zeeshan|2> shrug
[12:56:21] <pcw_home> set the output scale to 25.4 X what it is now
[12:56:48] <zeeshan|2> encoder_scale?
[12:56:51] <zeeshan|2> er
[12:56:52] <zeeshan|2> output_scale
[12:56:53] <zeeshan|2> nm
[12:57:00] <PetefromTn_> in which hal or ini
[12:57:04] <PetefromTn_> can't find it yet
[12:57:05] <zeeshan|2> in your ini
[12:57:06] <zeeshan|2> under each axis
[12:57:31] <pcw_home> depends on how the hal/ini were written
[12:57:45] <PetefromTn_> we used pncconf
[12:57:55] <PetefromTn_> then tweaked from there
[12:58:09] <pcw_home> most of those things tend to be in the INI file
[12:58:16] <PetefromTn_> looks that way
[12:58:42] <PetefromTn_> but I am afraid if I just change all the numbers from inch to metric we will be missing stuff somehow I don't understand
[12:59:15] <pcw_home> the analog out scalemax/maxlim/minlin may be set in the HAL file
[12:59:38] <jdh> they aren't
[12:59:45] <jdh> his hal looks unit agnostic
[13:01:27] <jdh> only real number is spindle scaling
[13:01:50] <PetefromTn_> that is neither metric nor imperial right>
[13:02:03] <jdh> right
[13:02:05] <pcw_home> yeah they are set in the ini:
[13:02:06] <pcw_home> OUTPUT_SCALE = 10
[13:02:08] <pcw_home> OUTPUT_MIN_LIMIT = -10
[13:02:09] <pcw_home> OUTPUT_MAX_LIMIT = 10
[13:02:19] <pcw_home> in volts :-(
[13:02:25] <jdh> heh
[13:02:42] <PetefromTn_> why is that bad?
[13:03:10] <pcw_home> umm because the output of the PID is not voltas but velocity
[13:03:29] <pcw_home> (it should be machine units/second)
[13:04:01] <pcw_home> (mm/sec on a metric machine and inches/sec on a imperial machine)
[13:04:39] <pcw_home> The advantage of doing this is that PID values are commensurate across machines and FF1 is 1.0
[13:04:46] <PetefromTn_> then how come it works? surely that is a voltage that refernces something else
[13:05:33] <jdh> it's just raw now
[13:06:10] <PetefromTn_> isn't everything relative to the machine setup contained in the .hal and .ini files or is there other places there is pertinent machine information?
[13:06:14] <pcw_home> it can always be made to work (tuning fixes and scaling)
[13:07:07] <jdh> Pete: everything you need to change is in your .ini
[13:07:09] <PetefromTn_> right now when I turn on the machine the linuxCNC program loads automatically upon startup
[13:07:34] <PetefromTn_> if I minimize it there is a folder on the desktop that has everyting pertinent in it called Cincinatti Arrow 500
[13:07:41] <jdh> make a copy of your current config dir and work in the copy.
[13:07:43] <PetefromTn_> I copied everything in it to a flash drive
[13:08:04] <PetefromTn_> I am not sure how to make linuxCNC use one or the other
[13:08:25] <PetefromTn_> like I can make the copy and tweak it to try things
[13:08:39] <PetefromTn_> but I don't understand how to make the program choose the other one
[13:09:48] <PetefromTn_> I am sure this is basic shit to you guys but again I am NOT good at this kind of thing. I want to learn how to do this because I will be doing it all again on the CNC lathe here soon.
[13:09:58] <jdh> auto-starting linuxcnc would bug me
[13:10:06] <PetefromTn_> actually I love it
[13:10:14] <PetefromTn_> just turn it on and go
[13:10:37] <PetefromTn_> makes it feel a lot more like a commercial machine
[13:11:08] <PetefromTn_> where would you guys recommend I start?
[13:11:25] <jdh> get a 1990's crt with phospor burn-in and some pushbuttons with worn out labels for the reall commercial feel.
[13:11:30] <zeeshan|2> auto starting linuxcnc sounds like something set in ubuntu
[13:11:41] <jdh> ignore teh auto-start for now
[13:11:44] <zeeshan|2> what config it uses is likely based on the start up parameters.
[13:11:57] <zeeshan|2> since you already have a backup
[13:12:01] <PetefromTn_> how do I change that?
[13:12:06] <zeeshan|2> i'd just start modifying the files in the folder you currently have
[13:12:11] <zeeshan|2> and making them work
[13:12:11] <jdh> no
[13:12:14] <zeeshan|2> =D
[13:12:15] <jdh> that is a terrible idea
[13:12:19] <zeeshan|2> no its not
[13:12:21] <zeeshan|2> if it fails
[13:12:23] <zeeshan|2> you overwrite the folder
[13:12:25] <zeeshan|2> and it all works :)
[13:12:43] <jdh> do not screw with your working config
[13:12:56] <PetefromTn_> keep in mind this is not a toy table top router... its a 7klb machining center LOL
[13:12:58] <SpeedEvil> http://www.incrediblethings.com/style-and-gear/battle-armor-for-cats/
[13:13:11] <SpeedEvil> I've been idlly wondering about hardsuits for cats.
[13:13:40] <PetefromTn_> I am kinda surprised that there is not a simple setting to change the units in the tool table.
[13:13:41] <SpeedEvil> http://www.oceanworks.com/our-business/services/ads-services/
[13:17:35] <pcw_home> so if you set
[13:17:37] <pcw_home> OUTPUT_SCALE = .3937
[13:17:38] <pcw_home> OUTPUT_MIN_LIMIT = -.3937
[13:17:40] <pcw_home> OUTPUT_MAX_LIMIT = .3937
[13:17:41] <pcw_home> you wont need to change your PID settings
[13:18:04] <zeeshan|2> 10/25.4?
[13:18:07] <PetefromTn_> Wow that would be great are you sure?
[13:18:07] <zeeshan|2> :D
[13:18:43] <PetefromTn_> honestly PID tuning for us was kinda intimidating LOL. Especially the Z axis
[13:19:01] <jdh> do you have units(1) installed?
[13:19:53] <pcw_home> thrn basically all velocity and accel setting get divided by 25.4, input scale gets multiplied by 25.4
[13:19:54] <pcw_home> and a bunch of stuff i probably forgot...
[13:19:58] <jdh> but, more importantly, do you know how to make a copy of your ~/linuxcnc/configs/<yourmachinename>
[13:20:21] <pcw_home> and hand on estop...
[13:20:56] <PetefromTn_> Oh hell yea
[13:20:57] <pcw_home> ohh ferror limits /25.4
[13:21:09] <PetefromTn_> I am very familiar with that estop thing
[13:21:38] <PetefromTn_> I am fairly comfortable with making single changes to the .ini and .hal and trying it but this is something completely different
[13:22:19] <PetefromTn_> jdh no not really
[13:22:43] <PetefromTn_> like I said I have a copy of the folder that contains everyting we did for the machine that Connor put on the desktop
[13:23:15] <PetefromTn_> it is on my laptop now which is how I got the files to picbin
[13:23:23] <PetefromTn_> or pastebin
[13:24:18] <PetefromTn_> just never made another set and activated that new set like this. not sure how to make linuxCNC choose the alternate set of files.
[13:24:47] <PetefromTn_> Andypugh was talking about how his machine has setups for lathe operation, mill operations, etc etc.
[13:31:30] <zeeshan|2> someone with more experience.. plz answer this
[13:31:37] <zeeshan|2> i have tons of SOOW cable
[13:31:44] <zeeshan|2> when you rip off the outer insulation
[13:31:56] <zeeshan|2> the wires inside seem to have a pretty shitty insulation
[13:32:15] <zeeshan|2> is it better just to run single wires with a proper jacket like MTW 90 deg wire
[13:32:26] <zeeshan|2> or SOOW
[13:32:37] <zeeshan|2> lemme show why i ask this:
[13:33:33] <zeeshan|2> https://www.flickr.com/photos/128539016@N05/16005576822/
[13:33:43] <zeeshan|2> notice the long white wire
[13:33:46] <zeeshan|2> look at how crappy it is!
[13:35:39] <SolarNRG> alright gents
[13:36:24] <SolarNRG> quick question: Why don't modern ratchet hand drills have 3 prong chucks instead of 4? It's really annoying cos i spent 25 euros on one and it won;t fit my hole saw now
[13:40:16] <zeeshan|2> plz help! :{
[13:40:40] <SolarNRG> zeeshan sup
[13:40:56] <zeeshan|2> can you use SOOW inside an electrical enclosure?
[13:41:00] <SpeedEvil> what is a modern ratchett hand drill?
[13:42:11] <SolarNRG> speedevil: I basically got one of these only its a draper and its blue:
http://image.made-in-china.com/2f0j00mUrEKBQgRTVa/Ratchet-Drill.jpg
[13:42:43] <zeeshan|2> im looking at NEC article 400
[13:42:44] <zeeshan|2> and it says
[13:42:57] <zeeshan|2> "The first thing to understand about flexible cords is the NEC does not consider them "a wiring method." '
[13:43:01] <SpeedEvil> the chucks are designed to grip specially designed bits
[13:43:28] <SpeedEvil> zeeshan|2: does the NEC even apply inside machines?
[13:43:36] <zeeshan|2> ofcourse
[13:43:39] <PetefromTn_> is it for speedy tapping or something?
[13:43:52] <zeeshan|2> nec knows all :D
[13:43:59] <SolarNRG> speedevil, I want a pillar mounted, metal geared, long lever hand powered drill that can fit a hole saw so I can get fit drilling large diameter holes thru steel, any suggestions bar welding a chuck to some rebar in 2 thrust bearings?
[13:44:38] <PetefromTn_> why would you want a hand drill?
[13:44:40] <SolarNRG> My cnc is still under construction I've been working on the thrust bearing mounts for the 33mm trapezoid thread today
[13:44:51] <SolarNRG> when I got my working system I won't need it pete :)
[13:44:51] <SpeedEvil> Why the hell hand powered
[13:44:55] <zeeshan|2> okay
[13:45:01] <zeeshan|2> article 300 pretty much is what you follow for inside a machine
[13:45:09] <zeeshan|2> you're not supposed to use flexible cords
[13:45:12] <zeeshan|2> to wire shit inside a machine
[13:45:18] <zeeshan|2> well SOOW or SJOW that is
[13:45:22] <SolarNRG> And my drill press is bottom dollar powerplus5 and won't handle hole saws even on slowest speeds even with a tonne of grease
[13:45:37] <SpeedEvil> SolarNRG: cut off 90% of the teeth
[13:45:57] <SolarNRG> ??? off the holesaw?
[13:46:01] <SolarNRG> with the grinder?
[13:46:06] <SolarNRG> omg that's a genius idea
[13:46:25] <SolarNRG> f*cking genius speeddevil!
[13:46:47] <SolarNRG> and how do I stop the chuck from constantly dropping off the machine when I got the hole saw moutned?
[13:46:56] <zeeshan|2> http://img.tjskl.org.cn/nimg/23/d9/9bf692182312b724de4cd34b3cc7-0x0-0/flexible_copper_pvc_insulated_pvc_jacket_strong_style_color_b82220_electrical_strong_wire.jpg
[13:47:00] <zeeshan|2> can you buy that at home depot?
[13:47:20] <SpeedEvil> Clean the chuck and the taper with solvent.
[13:47:27] <SpeedEvil> Ram it home firmly
[13:47:42] <SpeedEvil> If you don't want it to ever come out accidentally, you can then use loctite
[13:47:54] <SolarNRG> speedevil will brandy work as a solvent?
[13:48:08] <SpeedEvil> I do not think brandy is a solvent for most machine oils
[13:48:21] <zeeshan|2> ROFL
[13:48:24] <cradek> jacobs and morse tapers aren't meant for side loads - be sure pressure is straight down
[13:48:33] <zeeshan|2> cradek lies
[13:48:34] <SolarNRG> Cos we got some brandy in the mail today from scotland
[13:48:42] <cradek> onoz
[13:48:43] <zeeshan|2> a couple days ago i learned something new
[13:48:48] <zeeshan|2> you can use morse taper for side loads
[13:48:53] <zeeshan|2> [cube]'s machine has a morse taper
[13:48:55] <zeeshan|2> but it has a drawbar!
[13:49:04] <cradek> uh yeah that's why they have drawbars
[13:49:05] <SolarNRG> won't grinding off 90% of the teeth make the holesaw unbalanced?
[13:49:06] <zeeshan|2> so weird :p
[13:49:11] <cradek> leave opposite teeth
[13:49:16] <SpeedEvil> SolarNRG: you grind them off in a balanced pattern
[13:49:22] <zeeshan|2> so you can use both those tapers as long as there is a drawbar :P
[13:49:32] <SpeedEvil> The point is that the load and cutting per tooth remains the same
[13:49:44] <SpeedEvil> Also - your crappy drill-press probably can't go slow enough for sane cutting speeds
[13:49:50] <SpeedEvil> SolarNRG: why do you need holes
[13:49:54] <SpeedEvil> And in what
[13:49:59] <tiwake> getting ready to make some titanium shot glasses
[13:50:06] <SpeedEvil> tiwake: nice
[13:50:09] <SolarNRG> I got these thrust bearings like 64mm in outer diameter 30mm inner bore diam
[13:50:22] <SolarNRG> I'm gonna put the trapezoid thread in two of these
[13:50:31] <tiwake> any idea what RPM and feedrate I should run a 1" carbide spade drill?
[13:50:49] <cradek> in titanium?
[13:50:53] <tiwake> yeah
[13:50:59] <SolarNRG> I'm making the holes thrugh 2 8mm thick angle iron 100mmx100mm and the bottom is 70mm
[13:51:01] <cradek> no idea!
[13:51:22] <SolarNRG> and I'm gonna weld those to the box steel that'll be my linear actuator
[13:51:27] <cradek> SolarNRG: you need to get down to 100sfm then - how big is the hole saw?
[13:51:34] <tiwake> I've ran titanium stuff before, its not too bad as long as there is plenty of cooland
[13:51:37] <tiwake> coolant
[13:51:37] <SolarNRG> 64mm
[13:51:42] <SolarNRG> its a bit bigger than the bearing
[13:51:44] <cradek> eeee
[13:51:46] <SolarNRG> shop only had 64mm or 60mm
[13:52:11] <SpeedEvil> SolarNRG: a decent jigsaw may almost be easier
[13:52:27] <SpeedEvil> then tidy up with a die grinder
[13:52:45] <SolarNRG> rotory tool with stone endbit?
[13:53:48] <SolarNRG> hang on I'll take a photo and that'd make it easier to explain brb
[13:54:01] <cradek> if you don't have 100-200 rpm on your drill press you can't cut a 2.5" hole in steel
[13:54:32] <SpeedEvil> If it's being welded on - chain drilling may be quite reasonable
[13:54:59] <cradek> yes chain drill, cut out with a coping saw, file to fit
[13:55:33] <tiwake> I have no motivation today
[13:56:23] <PetefromTn_> thats some large angle iron
[13:57:26] <PetefromTn_> might be better off taking it to a local shop and have them cut it right for you would be a lot easier
[13:57:29] <cradek> I'm surprised you still have any teeth on the hole saw if you were running it at (cheap) drill press speeds
[13:59:58] <SolarNRG> ok here's my photo one on the left is the angle iron segment I attmepted with the crappy drill press and hole saw didn't jam funnily enough the chuck fell out the one on the right has a bearing in place how I'd like it to sort of "slot in"
http://i.imgur.com/5YGUynj.jpg
[14:00:14] <SolarNRG> I modified the belts to go on mega slow speeds cradek
[14:00:25] <SolarNRG> and I was flooding that thing with coolant as I went
[14:01:07] <PetefromTn_> this is for a bearing press fit??
[14:01:33] <SpeedEvil> weld to the outside of
[14:01:40] <SolarNRG> well the idea is my massive trapezoid thread is going between the two thrust bearings with another plate welded on behind for the stepper pulley assembly to go on
[14:02:20] <SolarNRG> this 100mmx100mmx1500mm box steel 8mm thick that's gonna be the frame of my machine I hope will mill steel to a reasonable standard
[14:02:35] <SolarNRG> This is my first machine and I know I've undertaken a big project
[14:02:51] <SolarNRG> but I really don't want some crappy circuit board miller
[14:02:56] <SolarNRG> or jewellery engraver
[14:03:05] <cradek> SolarNRG: what rpm did you end up with?
[14:03:31] <SolarNRG> Don't know the exact rpm but at a guess I'd say like 2-4 hz
[14:03:47] <cradek> 2 turns a second would be about right
[14:03:59] <SolarNRG> this is a slow as the machine will go
[14:04:04] <cradek> 4 would be way too high
[14:05:04] <SolarNRG> hence why I was asking why the manufacturers of drills have to be such assholes and they discontinued production of 1890's two handed ratchet drills with big long levers that third world countries could mill through steel with no problem
[14:05:37] <SolarNRG> now for a much higher price and lack of availability the ONLY thing available was this piece of junk powerplus 5 and I honestly can't wait for a 3 axix setup with a 5kw cnc endmill
[14:05:41] <PetefromTn_> what country are you in?
[14:05:42] <SolarNRG> that's be like totally sweet
[14:05:59] <SolarNRG> uk
[14:06:15] <cradek> I'd mill this for you with a 3/8 end mill if you were nearby
[14:06:20] <PetefromTn_> agreed
[14:06:49] <PetefromTn_> still not sure of the whole setup or how it is going together
[14:07:11] <PetefromTn_> I would try to find a local with a milling machine and buy him a pint....
[14:08:44] <SolarNRG> http://i.imgur.com/HPKVcAY.jpg
[14:08:46] <SolarNRG> like that
[14:09:11] <SolarNRG> but instead of trying to put the thread under the rails I figured I'd have the thread level with the rails using the angle iron
[14:09:39] <SolarNRG> its all companies nowadays round here and they;re all a**holes
[14:12:03] <SolarNRG> picked up the box steel pretty cheap acually
[14:13:19] <SolarNRG> here's a look at some of the parts I've been assembling bit by bit when I'm not working:
http://i.imgur.com/22gLwsc.jpg
[14:13:32] <SolarNRG> on the far left is the box steel I was on about I got plenty of that
[14:14:39] <SolarNRG> middle is the 33mm trap thread with the "bolt" bottom left are again the thrust bearings middle right are the 50mm stainless pipes I considered using as rails and bottom right I also got 29mm stainless bar I could use as rails
[14:15:16] <SolarNRG> considered using them crane pulleys and fabricating my own linear bearings
[14:15:48] <SolarNRG> this project of mine has been going on for about 2 years now and I'm getting more parts here and htere but I really want it to get into full swing
[14:16:05] <SolarNRG> and I could really use ur advice
[14:18:26] <SolarNRG> Oh and here's a concept 3d model I did in blender of the linear bearing I was planning on assembling:
http://i.imgur.com/V9vunuY.jpg
[14:19:42] <PetefromTn_> Hm
[14:19:50] <PetefromTn_> looking at those pictures
[14:20:22] <SolarNRG> oh and here's a closer look at the thrust bearings disassembled:
http://i.imgur.com/wUApAr7.jpg
[14:20:29] <PetefromTn_> I would be inclined to use the square tubing as rails and make the frame from that
[14:20:53] <PetefromTn_> those look like tapered roller bearings
[14:21:16] <PetefromTn_> and the trapezoid thread is hard to see but that looks like an acme lead screw
[14:21:16] <SolarNRG> what like just weld a bit of angle iron on each end two roller bearings job done sorta thing?
[14:21:29] <SolarNRG> yeah that's what it is acme lead screw cost like 55 quid
[14:21:41] <SolarNRG> that was well expensive but no way am I using normal thread
[14:21:44] <cradek> are you sure welding to bearings is a thing to do?
[14:21:55] <PetefromTn_> well the Mechmate machine uses a nice setup that you grind your own rails with a grinder on a rolling plate
[14:22:08] <SolarNRG> nah u cant weld bearings but u can weld what the bearings attach to then mount the bearings in after
[14:22:08] <PetefromTn_> That is what I was wondering if he was going to do LOL
[14:22:30] <SolarNRG> last time I welded anything that's supposed to move it got stuck duh
[14:22:33] <SolarNRG> duh me not u
[14:22:42] <PetefromTn_> I would forget about using the round tube for rails I doubt they will be straight enough
[14:22:51] <SolarNRG> I didn't even weld the bit that was supposed to move just the heat warpage stopped it moving anymore
[14:23:32] <PetefromTn_> check out the mechmate machines might give you some better ideas of how to make it. that is an all steel machine
[14:23:41] <SolarNRG> lookin
[14:23:46] <PetefromTn_> there are quite a few videos on youtube showing how it goes together
[14:23:58] <PetefromTn_> not saying you need to make it JUST like that of course
[14:24:22] <PetefromTn_> there is a lot of plate steel in the gantry and Z
[14:24:34] <PetefromTn_> but the way it goes together might give you some better ideas.
[14:24:45] <SolarNRG> how clattery is it?
[14:24:51] <SolarNRG> any indiependent reviews on it?
[14:24:59] <PetefromTn_> not sure what clattery means
[14:25:32] <SolarNRG> jink jink jink dunk dunk dunk knock knock knock bang bang bang shake shake shake rattle rattle rattle as it mills
[14:27:00] <SolarNRG> resulting in the system going off center and the cuts basically being crap
[14:27:05] <PetefromTn_> from what I have seen of the MEchmate machine it is very rigid and strong
[14:27:10] <SolarNRG> :)
[14:27:16] <SolarNRG> that's all I wanted to hear
[14:27:17] <PetefromTn_> lots of folks cut aluminum plate with it
[14:28:05] <SolarNRG> didn't know about the mechmate seems like a relatively new design
[14:28:12] <PetefromTn_> you will probably never be able to make any real cuts in steel tho...
[14:29:06] <PetefromTn_> if I was going to make a large format CNC router today I would be looking at the mechmate design for sure.. not anything I have seen elsewhere that really is better from my view
[14:29:30] <SolarNRG> so it's alright for boring out 80% lowers but its crap for making new morris minor engine parts
[14:29:59] <SolarNRG> petefromtn, what's its weakness the lack of a descent endmill or the lack of rigidity?
[14:30:07] <PetefromTn_> if you want to make 80% lowers and engine parts you really need a CNC milling machine not a CNC router table
[14:31:48] <SolarNRG> tbh I couldn't care less about crappy jammy up american firearms parts prefer the kaleshnikov any day haha but car parts of out of make antique cars are serious money
[14:32:12] <PetefromTn_> not saying it can't be done but you are going to want some precision cuts
[14:32:25] <PetefromTn_> that is difficult to attain with a router
[14:32:26] <SolarNRG> yeah precision is what I'm going for
[14:32:47] <zeeshan|2> man i hate having an european machine
[14:32:47] <SolarNRG> I seen the alibaba thing for the 5kw cnc endmill they accept wu
[14:32:53] <zeeshan|2> it doesnt meet any of the nec standards
[14:32:56] <zeeshan|2> like neutral is BLUE
[14:32:58] <zeeshan|2> not white
[14:33:05] <zeeshan|2> so i have to buy wire now.
[14:33:05] <SolarNRG> yeah and live is brown
[14:33:11] <SolarNRG> earth is yellow and green
[14:33:12] <zeeshan|2> so lame
[14:33:18] <zeeshan|2> SolarNRG: exactly!
[14:33:24] <zeeshan|2> i have like 50 feet of this wire
[14:33:26] <zeeshan|2> that i cant use
[14:33:28] <zeeshan|2> cause its a different color.
[14:33:34] <SolarNRG> yeah but at least european cars dont have limiters on
[14:34:26] <zeeshan|2> Wires that have their outer covering finished to show a white or gray color but have colored tracer threads in the braid identifying the source of manufacture are considered to meet the provisions of this section. The use of white tape, paint, or other methods of identification isn't permitted for grounded conductors 6 AWG or smaller
[14:34:29] <SolarNRG> umm pvc tape over it?
[14:34:44] <zeeshan|2> cant do it
[14:34:47] <zeeshan|2> for smaller wires.
[14:34:48] <zeeshan|2> :-(
[14:35:16] <zeeshan|2> you know these are the rules for a circuit conductor
[14:35:31] <zeeshan|2> i dunno how true it is for power distribution within an enclosure
[14:35:53] <renesis> ?
[14:36:01] <zeeshan|2> ?
[14:36:04] <renesis> youre not selling it why do you have to meet safety compliance
[14:36:23] <zeeshan|2> because if the house burns down because of it
[14:36:28] <zeeshan|2> i have documentation
[14:36:30] <SolarNRG> umm colour coding does help u not to accidentally wire it wrong and make very expensive mistakes
[14:36:41] <SolarNRG> especially when the wire count goes above like 10 or so
[14:36:42] <zeeshan|2> and what SolarNRGs says
[14:36:50] <renesis> i mean, make sure its safe but i wouldnt go nuts over 8mm vs 9mm or 4mm with double insulation
[14:40:38] <renesis> anyway, colors arent going to start fires unless human error, gap and insulation and earth tie down issues might
[14:40:54] <SolarNRG> I mean imagine waiting for like a month or so and spending a few thousand on a robust powerful cnc water cooled endmill then wiring it wrong because u scrimped on coloured wires and u put brown to blue or something dumb like that and bang poof the lights dim, u unplug u find the torch go outside to the garage find the tripswitch and when u rewire the machine u find ur device u spent all that money on and time waiting for it to arrive in the mail is
[14:40:55] <SolarNRG> DEAD
[14:41:44] <renesis> human error, documentation issues
[14:42:42] <SolarNRG> yeah but anything u can do to reduce u confusing urself and leading to potential human error is good isn't it?
[14:44:23] <renesis> always, but schedules and money happen, at the very least make sure its safe without human fuckups
[14:45:04] <renesis> prototypes are usually a compromise, zees thing is a prototype
[14:45:19] <SolarNRG> I like to find youtube vids of someone else doing it, fraps it, compress it print out screenshots of someone elses when its working and study it over and over before I even wire one thing into another jsut to be damn sure I done it right
[14:45:42] <SolarNRG> yeah if ur the first person doing it u got a bit of educated guesswork to do
[14:56:43] <tiwake> with titanium, do I want to use carbide inserts I typically use for aluminum or steels?
[14:57:04] <SolarNRG> all i know about titanium is its loads harder than steel
[14:57:22] <SolarNRG> tungsten carbides harder than ti iirc
[14:57:38] <SolarNRG> diamond will work albeit slow
[14:58:10] <tiwake> well
[14:58:16] <tiwake> *shrug*
[14:58:21] <tiwake> I'll try things I guess
[14:58:29] <SolarNRG> yeah hss won;t cut it
[14:58:43] <SolarNRG> forget anything intended for stainless
[14:59:26] <tiwake> it seems to me titanium is easier to cut than 316 stainless
[14:59:32] <tiwake> at least thats what I recall
[14:59:48] <tiwake> as long as there is enough coolant on it so it does not work harden
[14:59:52] <SolarNRG> u can defo cut it with a zirconium angle grinder disk
[14:59:58] <SolarNRG> oxycetaline will usually cut it
[15:00:13] <PetefromTn_> http://www.kennametal.com/content/dam/kennametal/kennametal/common/Resources/Catalogs-Literature/Industry%20Solutions/Titanium_material_machining_guide_Aerospace.pdf
[15:00:14] <tiwake> by cut I mean turn
[15:01:24] <SolarNRG> I remember reading in some catalog somethign about a 6 flute high nickel endmill suitable for ti
[15:06:50] <SolarNRG> its worth remembering however that just because something is harder than the thing ur trying to cut doesn't mean it has a higher tensile/tortional strength, i.e. it can break and shatter rather than blunt
[15:07:38] <SolarNRG> yeah 316 stainless has loads higher tensile strength than titanium albeit titanium is harder
[16:18:10] <Deejay> gn8
[16:24:47] <zeeshan|2> http://images.esellerpro.com/2485/I/216/6/PL10580a.jpg
[16:24:53] <zeeshan|2> for this connector thats within an enclosure
[16:25:08] <zeeshan|2> http://www.awcwire.com/Portals/0/CVStoreImages/mtw-tew-wire_400.jpg
[16:25:11] <zeeshan|2> can i use this kind of wire
[16:25:13] <zeeshan|2> that has no outer jacket?
[16:46:55] <renesis> zeeshan|2: are you worried the fiberboard is going to eat through the insulation?
[16:47:21] <renesis> you could double heatshrink there, those connectors are always kind of janky
[16:47:49] <renesis> id be more worried about loose strands from stripping shorting things
[16:48:17] <renesis> and id try and put some sort of strain releif loop on the cable going into that connector
[16:58:45] <zeeshan|2> renesis: you didnt answer the q :P
[16:59:04] <zeeshan|2> note how the rubber piece is tapered
[16:59:13] <zeeshan|2> i think thats supposed to grab onto a pvc outer jacket
[16:59:19] <zeeshan|2> on top of the orange strain relief thing
[16:59:30] <zeeshan|2> it looks so weird to have 3 wires coming out of there
[16:59:33] <zeeshan|2> with no outer jacket
[17:00:16] <renesis> i answered the question
[17:00:46] <renesis> use some heatshrink to protect the wire from getting chewed up by the fiberboard clamp
[17:00:58] <zeeshan|2> oh im not worried about that
[17:01:01] <zeeshan|2> mine is a plastic clamp
[17:01:05] <renesis> and loop to compensate for the lack of tension from the rubber boot
[17:02:02] <zeeshan|2> https://www.flickr.com/photos/128539016@N05/16006673692/
[17:02:04] <zeeshan|2> wiring mess
[17:02:19] <zeeshan|2> wires are just layed out
[17:03:36] <renesis> just the top left
[17:03:37] <CaptHindsight> zeeshan|2: the extra outer jacket is to make it easier to pull through conduit
[17:04:20] <zeeshan|2> im gonna use ren's idea
[17:04:27] <zeeshan|2> im gonna double heat shrink @ the clamp
[17:04:33] <zeeshan|2> so it clamps somewhat evenly
[17:04:50] <zeeshan|2> and fak it, it'll just have individual condutors coming out of that round conduit thing
[17:04:53] <renesis> those connectors are so fuckin sketchy
[17:05:00] <zeeshan|2> why
[17:05:04] <zeeshan|2> thats how plugs look like
[17:05:07] <zeeshan|2> for receptacles
[17:05:07] <CaptHindsight> if you're going to be plugging and unplugging often then you'll want a different connector
[17:05:10] <zeeshan|2> like 240v shit
[17:05:23] <zeeshan|2> CaptHindsight: like what?
[17:05:31] <renesis> yeah but the molded shit is functional by nature, those things almost always feel cheap
[17:05:31] <zeeshan|2> https://www.flickr.com/photos/128539016@N05/16005576822/in/photostream/
[17:05:36] <zeeshan|2> you can see how i did my PC supply
[17:05:55] <CaptHindsight> higher priced twist lock
[17:05:56] <zeeshan|2> i dont have proper pvc outer jacket wire
[17:06:04] <zeeshan|2> CaptHindsight: not an option
[17:06:06] <renesis> honestly, i would look to see if neutrik powercon can handle the load before considering anything else
[17:06:09] <zeeshan|2> servo drives output iec connector
[17:06:24] <CaptHindsight> zeeshan|2: so why did you ask? :)
[17:06:25] <zeeshan|2> it wasnt my choice to use a lame iec connector
[17:06:36] <zeeshan|2> CaptHindsight: i never asked what connector to use
[17:06:49] <zeeshan|2> i asked if individual conductors , 3 of them
[17:06:52] <zeeshan|2> are okay to come out of a connector like that
[17:06:55] <CaptHindsight> CaptHindsight: like what?
[17:06:59] <renesis> yeah ive had to use those for power entry on test fixtures
[17:07:15] <renesis> but only because we didnt have enough IEC cables to cut up
[17:07:20] <CaptHindsight> maybe you're asking for my oatmeal cookie recipe
[17:07:26] <zeeshan|2> dude iec connector is the lamest type
[17:07:31] <zeeshan|2> for a servo drive.
[17:07:37] <renesis> and i wasnt they dont lock
[17:07:39] <zeeshan|2> why the f does amc think
[17:07:46] <zeeshan|2> an iec connector should be used OVER pin pads
[17:07:48] <zeeshan|2> terminals
[17:07:49] <renesis> QSC put locking IEC connectors on their K series speakers
[17:07:53] <renesis> its revolutionary
[17:08:03] <renesis> how sad is that, that a locking iec is fucking ground breaking
[17:08:07] <zeeshan|2> its not like their servo drive is nema4 or something
[17:08:21] <renesis> i mean that in a paradigm shifting sort of way, not electrical earth sort of way
[17:08:30] <renesis> anyway, consider getting a cable
[17:08:38] <zeeshan|2> honestly i called like
[17:08:41] <CaptHindsight> zeeshan|2: 1)yes, 2)no, 3) at least for the first few hours, 4) only when walking that way
[17:08:42] <renesis> with an overmolded iec end, standard cable that fits your drive
[17:08:42] <zeeshan|2> 10 different electrical suppliers today
[17:08:50] <zeeshan|2> none of them for some reason have a PVC outer jacket
[17:08:52] <renesis> and wiring it into a terminal on a din rail
[17:08:54] <zeeshan|2> with 3 thhn in them
[17:09:24] <zeeshan|2> well it goes to the fuse holder
[17:09:25] <zeeshan|2> no a terminal
[17:09:27] <zeeshan|2> *not
[17:09:33] <zeeshan|2> i mean contactor
[17:09:45] <zeeshan|2> CaptHindsight: i dont know what youre talking about
[17:10:24] <zeeshan|2> i have a shit load of soow cable
[17:10:25] <CaptHindsight> thats makes 2 of us
[17:10:30] <zeeshan|2> but nec says in article 400
[17:10:32] <renesis> anyway, if you use that thing, i would loop and fix the wires going in
[17:10:34] <zeeshan|2> not to use cab tire wire
[17:10:40] <zeeshan|2> as a "wiring method"
[17:10:43] <renesis> the boot isnt going to do shit for strain relief
[17:10:50] <zeeshan|2> and i believe them, cause cab tire wire is pretty flimsy
[17:10:53] <zeeshan|2> and easy to cut
[17:10:59] <zeeshan|2> especially the inner conductor rubber insulation
[17:11:30] <zeeshan|2> tehres gotta be a place that sells 14awg wire locally that has 3 conductors and a pvc outer jacket
[17:11:36] <zeeshan|2> you see that kind of cable all the time on machines
[17:11:46] <renesis> why do you want pvc so bad
[17:11:57] <zeeshan|2> nylon pvc
[17:12:00] <zeeshan|2> non rubber!
[17:12:26] <renesis> silicone insulation is good stuff, usually way thick
[17:13:17] <renesis> ive only used stuff with rubber outer cover, the electrical wire insulation is silicone
[17:13:18] <jdh> way thick and takes up too much space
[17:13:39] <zeeshan|2> read article 400
[17:13:41] <renesis> yeah would be annoying for chassis wiring
[17:13:48] <zeeshan|2> it says clearly not to use flexible wiring like soow sjow
[17:13:51] <renesis> for test leads and speaker cable is sexy as fuck
[17:13:51] <zeeshan|2> for wiring
[17:14:00] <zeeshan|2> its really meant for motor to enclosure
[17:14:04] <renesis> but yeah, good wire = teflon, pvc is usually pretty meh
[17:14:06] <zeeshan|2> type of shit
[17:14:22] <jdh> I like 18/3 SOOW
[17:14:27] <jdh> for dive lights though.
[17:16:59] <renesis> zeeshan|2: for internal hookup wire, teflon is gooey sex
[17:17:29] <renesis> but yeah i would just get an iec cable and strip ends and do a short run to din block terminals or whatever
[17:17:36] <Jymm> teflon is for boats and planes.
[17:17:49] <renesis> teflon is for when you can afford it!
[17:18:34] <Jymm> Teflon is for when there is a toxic pvc fire and no means of escape.
[17:18:45] <renesis> or would could just rail splice and solder and heatshrink a cable end onto some hookup wire
[17:19:36] <zeeshan|2> i use teflon when its submerged in gas tank
[17:19:37] <renesis> pvc insulation is weak, shit tears easy
[17:19:41] <zeeshan|2> everything else will die in there
[17:20:16] <renesis> can cut through some pvc insulation with a fingernail
[17:20:55] <renesis> the rigidity is nice for rework, too
[17:21:18] <renesis> tiny stuff, the pvc insulated stuff is a joke, wet noodle
[17:21:41] <renesis> also it just feels so good
[17:22:00] <renesis> also when you solder with it, it hardly pulls back from heat if at all
[17:22:06] <renesis> its just better wire to have on hand
[17:23:19] <Jymm> and expensive as fuck
[17:23:29] <renesis> dont waste it
[17:23:58] <renesis> and not really if you dont need it new and online retail
[17:24:15] <renesis> surplus electronic shops will usually have some
[17:24:22] <Jymm> Heh, I scavange cloth covered wires form appliances
[17:24:33] <renesis> heh, place in the san fernando valley has like hundreds of reels of the shit
[17:24:46] <Jymm> ReadError: what place?
[17:24:54] <renesis> something about gov contractors cant reuse wire on other gov contracts or some shit
[17:24:55] <Jymm> err renesis
[17:25:13] <Jymm> yeah, tracability.
[17:25:20] <renesis> apex
[17:25:39] <Jymm> in van nuys?
[17:25:39] <renesis> in sun valley, or pacoima or somewhere in the north east valley
[17:25:45] <renesis> no thats all
[17:25:45] <Jymm> ah
[17:25:52] <renesis> thats on kester and oxnard
[17:26:10] <Jymm> You ever get to Dow Electronics in pasadena?
[17:26:13] <renesis> this is like, san fernando rd towards
[17:26:17] <renesis> oh
[17:26:27] <renesis> you know i think maybe, my friend took my there
[17:26:38] <Jymm> On Colorado Blvd
[17:26:48] <Jymm> Across from Pasadena City College
[17:26:49] <renesis> lots of old psu and generators, hes old audio hacker
[17:26:56] <renesis> yeah i think i been there
[17:27:04] <Jymm> No, that's dwn the street, ld military gear
[17:27:07] <renesis> old guy prices shit like he dont want to sell it
[17:27:09] <Jymm> old*
[17:27:24] <renesis> yeah dunno, been someplace in that area
[17:27:27] <Jymm> Dow is actually electronics, not surplus
[17:27:40] <renesis> mostly i just went to all and apex
[17:27:48] <Jymm> ah
[17:28:02] <Jymm> I know the place you are talking about though.
[17:28:24] <renesis> my friend repairs tube amps, so hes always looking for old parts
[17:28:32] <Jymm> ah
[17:28:59] <renesis> so i tag along with him to the electronics shops that are left, and sometimes to the trw swap meet
[17:29:21] <renesis> all that shit mostly gone since i been into electronics
[17:29:40] <Jymm> Is TRW still going? I thought they shut it down years ago
[17:29:55] <renesis> like, there was maybe 4 places to get parts in the valley, besides frys and radioshack, when i started
[17:29:58] <Jymm> TRW swap meet that is
[17:29:59] <renesis> and now 2 are closed
[17:30:10] <renesis> well it was a couple years ago
[17:30:22] <renesis> everyone said its very small compared to what it was
[17:30:22] <Jymm> Cool, good to hear.
[17:30:34] <renesis> lots of china tools, still some people selling old test gear
[17:30:35] <Jymm> Oh it was HUGE
[17:30:43] <renesis> haha, lots and lots of tek modules of questionable state
[17:31:03] <renesis> i bought a portable 2 channel tek analog scope
[17:31:09] <renesis> one of the one with the flip top
[17:31:10] <Jymm> IT was a geeks/hams wet dream coem true.
[17:31:41] <renesis> really like it, dont use it, people have used oversized china BNC pins on it, so decent BNC sometimes get intermittent
[17:32:12] <Jymm> There used to be a GTE surplus place too. All the telco gear you coudl think of, MASSIVE warehouse of it.
[17:32:23] <renesis> that would be cool
[17:32:33] <renesis> apex is still pretty big
[17:32:35] <Jymm> I mena MASSIVE... and completely full
[17:32:42] <renesis> shelves all leaning with 70s and 80s test gear
[17:32:50] <Jymm> barly could get a forkift throught the isles
[17:33:15] <renesis> yeah im sure apex has some unspoken thing goin with the city
[17:33:17] <Jymm> racks upon racks of switching stuff was the bulk of it
[17:33:29] <renesis> that shit cant be passin fire code
[17:33:41] <renesis> shit every, shelves fallen over leaning on other shelves
[17:34:09] <renesis> pilars of wire reels, with wire, leaned on other pillars leaning on sagging shelves
[17:34:29] <renesis> its awesome
[17:34:41] <renesis> they must own the place and have some other business, heh
[17:34:53] <renesis> hardly anyone in there when i been, they cant sell much
[17:39:26] <SpeedEvil> But when he dies he does win the 'most stuff' prize
[17:42:41] <Valen> probably getting nasa money
[17:42:49] <Valen> or at least they were when the shuttles were flying
[17:43:06] <Valen> they had a team of people searching ebay for old CPU's and such like
[17:44:07] <renesis> who?
[17:45:21] <Valen> the people with the warehouse full of old electronics
[17:45:30] <renesis> theyre just stuck with it
[17:45:33] <Valen> getting moneys from selling crap to nasa
[17:45:41] <renesis> maybe sell it all for pennies on the dollar
[17:52:42] <_methods> penises on the dollar?
[17:53:33] <renesis> thats so many penises
[17:54:01] <renesis> even if they got a penis for every 100 pieces of junk test equipment
[17:54:03] <_methods> hahah
[17:54:27] <renesis> the wire is worth money
[17:54:37] <renesis> if they just sold it to scrappers
[17:54:52] <_methods> yeah next time i'm out there i gotta stop at that place
[17:56:11] <_methods> if nothing else for the wire
[17:56:24] <renesis> http://apexelectronic.com/bulk-wire
[17:56:26] <_methods> are their prices even good on the wire though?
[17:56:48] <renesis> well its better than new for sure
[17:57:13] <renesis> would just call and ask ^
[17:57:24] <zeeshan|2> hmm
[17:57:29] <zeeshan|2> im almost tempted to use extension cord
[17:57:32] <zeeshan|2> for this iec plugs.
[17:57:33] <renesis> i wonder if they just list the stuff thta is easy for them to get to
[17:57:46] <renesis> is it standard 10A iec?
[17:57:50] <zeeshan|2> no
[17:57:51] <zeeshan|2> 15A
[17:58:00] <zeeshan|2> need 14awg
[17:58:01] <renesis> oh the bit stupid blocky ones
[17:58:07] <renesis> *big
[17:58:16] <zeeshan|2> yea man everytime i think about it
[17:58:17] <zeeshan|2> i get pissed
[17:58:21] <zeeshan|2> its lame as shit
[17:58:32] <renesis> would just order a cable and cut off the edison plug end
[17:58:52] <zeeshan|2> had a hard time finding 14awg
[17:58:55] <zeeshan|2> theyre all shitty 16awg
[17:58:59] <renesis> if you dont like the outer jacket cut it all off
[17:59:45] <zeeshan|2> http://www.canadiantire.ca/en/pdp/contractor-grade-power-block-cords-14-3-0522317p.html#.VIt8uXurGvE
[17:59:51] <zeeshan|2> i was thinking buying that
[17:59:52] <zeeshan|2> and cutting it up
[17:59:53] <zeeshan|2> lol
[17:59:54] <renesis> http://www.amazon.com/Tripp-Lite-Heavy-Duty-IEC-320-C19-P034-010/dp/B0012EK2RE
[17:59:56] <renesis> ?
[18:00:02] <zeeshan|2> no
[18:00:11] <zeeshan|2> thats not the style
[18:00:15] <zeeshan|2> the style is same as pc.
[18:00:21] <renesis> uh
[18:00:25] <zeeshan|2> the rating on the plug is 115vac 15a
[18:00:27] <renesis> heh, those are 10A connectors
[18:00:28] <zeeshan|2> or 240vac 10a
[18:00:34] <zeeshan|2> thats what it physically says on the connector
[18:00:37] <zeeshan|2> makes no sense to me.
[18:00:47] <renesis> thats not standard
[18:01:19] <zeeshan|2> im gonna try home depot again
[18:01:26] <zeeshan|2> i really hope i can find a pvc jacket 3 conductor cable
[18:01:31] <zeeshan|2> this shit is driving me insane!!
[18:01:35] <renesis> look for speaker cables
[18:01:52] <zeeshan|2> speaker power supply?
[18:01:57] <renesis> iec cables for powered speakers and rack amplifiers are usually 12 or 14 awg
[18:02:00] <renesis> yeah
[18:03:27] <renesis> http://www.amazon.com/SF-Cable-10ft-Universal-Power/dp/B0064SZ5U2/ref=sr_1_1?s=electronics&ie=UTF8&qid=1418427774&sr=1-1&keywords=%2214+awg%22+iec+cable
[18:03:58] <zeeshan|2> i looked for some
[18:04:04] <zeeshan|2> theyre findable in straight con
[18:04:09] <zeeshan|2> but not down angle connector
[18:04:14] <zeeshan|2> i found 1 supplier for it
[18:04:19] <zeeshan|2> they said 6 week lead time
[18:04:20] <zeeshan|2> lol
[18:04:20] <renesis> you need RA?
[18:04:27] <zeeshan|2> down angle
[18:04:32] <zeeshan|2> right angle is also okay to find
[18:04:35] <zeeshan|2> i think some plasma tv's use it
[18:04:44] <renesis> its not uncommon
[18:04:59] <renesis> so you mounted you shit in a corner or something
[18:05:48] <zeeshan|2> https://www.flickr.com/photos/128539016@N05/16006673692/in/photostream/
[18:05:51] <zeeshan|2> you can see there
[18:05:55] <zeeshan|2> 2 of the connectors are straight
[18:05:56] <zeeshan|2> cause ther eis space
[18:06:01] <zeeshan|2> but the vfd blocks 2 of em
[18:06:04] <zeeshan|2> so i gotta use down angle there
[18:06:28] <renesis> dunno what im looking at
[18:06:31] <renesis> whats the iec for
[18:06:34] <zeeshan|2> on the right
[18:06:36] <zeeshan|2> the servo drives
[18:06:37] <zeeshan|2> bottom right
[18:07:06] <renesis> why wont RA work
[18:07:12] <zeeshan|2> it will
[18:07:16] <zeeshan|2> just points the wire inthe wrong direction
[18:07:19] <zeeshan|2> remember i already have the connectors
[18:07:20] <zeeshan|2> i just need wire
[18:07:39] <renesis> http://www.amazon.com/Monoprice-14AWG-Conductor-Connector-Socket/dp/B005E2XT66/
[18:07:40] <zeeshan|2> https://www.flickr.com/photos/128539016@N05/15516339999/
[18:07:42] <zeeshan|2> you can see the plug there
[18:08:13] <renesis> ra will work fine
[18:08:30] <zeeshan|2> im gonna see if digikey carries that cord
[18:08:34] <zeeshan|2> just the wire
[18:08:40] <renesis> ?
[18:08:48] <zeeshan|2> ?
[18:09:09] <renesis> digikey is an expensive place to buy iec cables
[18:09:41] <renesis> and yeah i dont like those iec plug shells, the 10A or 15A ones
[18:10:09] <zeeshan|2> https://www.flickr.com/photos/128539016@N05/16005715661/
[18:10:11] <zeeshan|2> here you can see the plugs
[18:10:16] <renesis> i would just buy iec cable and strip off the jacket for the overmolded plug
[18:10:42] <renesis> RA looks like itll work better, honestly
[18:10:53] <renesis> those kind of run them into each other
[18:11:11] <zeeshan|2> okay fak it
[18:11:13] <zeeshan|2> ill just wait
[18:11:16] <zeeshan|2> and buy that cable you posted
[18:11:59] <renesis> you can cut jacket off like 1" in and heatshrink, itll look clean enough
[18:12:10] <renesis> decent strain relief
[18:12:41] <renesis> ive used those iec housings, they work, never really had issues with them, but i dont like them
[18:13:57] <renesis> stranded wire plus screw clamps in a cheap feeling housing with non functional strain relief just feels like bad voodo
[18:14:06] <renesis> maybe if you potted them with hot glue
[18:15:51] <zeeshan|2> sweet
[18:15:53] <zeeshan|2> those 6feet will work
[18:15:56] <zeeshan|2> i need 5.25 feet
[18:16:18] <renesis> heh
[18:16:28] <renesis> consider getting 10ft?
[18:16:33] <zeeshan|2> no
[18:16:34] <zeeshan|2> wanna be cheap
[18:16:35] <zeeshan|2> :D
[18:16:44] <renesis> the length might include the connector youre cutting off, and maybe stripping fuckups
[18:16:47] <renesis> ok
[18:17:36] <zeeshan|2> okay it is right angle that i need
[18:17:39] <zeeshan|2> not left angle
[18:17:44] <renesis> haha
[18:17:51] <zeeshan|2> that would be a big annoynace too
[18:17:51] <renesis> i dont think left angle is a thing
[18:17:52] <zeeshan|2> haha
[18:17:53] <renesis> like
[18:18:09] <renesis> because they dont have an op down orientation really
[18:18:35] <renesis> just means 90 degrees, i think they come both ways labeled 'right'
[18:19:04] <renesis> eath pin is usually on the bottom but not always
[18:19:21] <renesis> and sometimes it makes the fuse box lettering upside down heheh
[18:19:47] <zeeshan|2> erm
[18:19:51] <zeeshan|2> looks like monoprice is in china
[18:20:03] <renesis> kinda
[18:20:59] <zeeshan|2> http://www.monoprice.com/Product?c_id=102&cp_id=10228&cs_id=1022809&p_id=7684&seq=1&format=2
[18:21:00] <zeeshan|2> holy shit
[18:21:04] <zeeshan|2> its 3.45 on their website
[18:21:04] <zeeshan|2> haha
[18:21:12] <zeeshan|2> okay im ordering the 10 foot
[18:21:15] <zeeshan|2> its 5.10
[18:21:24] <renesis> if you dont have amazon prime its prob better to get direct
[18:58:49] <unfy> 18/4 shielded wire picked up
[18:59:19] <pfred1> I madem y own
[19:04:03] <pfred1> here's a picture i took while i was making my motor cables out of wire i pulled out of old IEC power cords
http://i.imgur.com/KKL8nGG.jpg
[19:05:31] <pfred1> at first I thought about just taping another wire to the cords
[19:06:19] <pfred1> these two are actually 5 wire for unipolar motors I made 4 wire too though
[20:12:14] <unfy> shielded ? and neat. i aint pullin that much juice so no need for that big myself.
[20:21:48] <pfred1> just 18 gauge
[20:25:06] <bobo_> zeeshan|2: for wire, have you considered Hypalon type wire ?
[20:28:06] * pfred1 likes copper wire
[20:30:10] <bobo_> Hypalon type of wire insulation
[20:33:02] <Tom_itx> what is it?
[20:33:03] <pfred1> PVC is good enough for me
[20:33:19] <Tom_itx> or rather where is it generally used?
[20:33:51] <pfred1> Teflon insulation is freaking annoying to work with
[20:33:59] <Tom_itx> no kidding
[20:34:12] <pfred1> though the trick is to use scissors to strip it
[20:34:23] <Tom_itx> stringy as crap and hard to strip
[20:34:45] <pfred1> we had to use teflon wire at the board house i qworked at ans we used scissors
[20:34:50] <Tom_itx> http://tom-itx.no-ip.biz:81/~webpage/cnc/psu/wire.jpg
[20:34:55] <Tom_itx> i've kinda wondered what that was
[20:34:55] <pfred1> you just cut throug hthe insulation and not the conductor
[20:35:02] <Tom_itx> aircraft surplus i think
[20:35:11] <Tom_itx> but i dunno what jacket it is
[20:35:37] <pfred1> most plastic insulation is PVC
[20:35:55] <Tom_itx> it's good wire
[20:36:02] <Tom_itx> fine strands
[20:36:06] <pfred1> yeah for most applications PVC is sufficient
[20:36:24] <Tom_itx> i used that for the limits on my sherlien
[20:36:47] <PetefromTn_> MMmmmmm Egg Nog with Cinammon spice!
[20:37:03] <Tom_itx> no wonder you haven't felt good :D
[20:37:19] <PetefromTn_> Feelin' better now
[20:37:37] <pfred1> PetefromTn_ you should use my cold remedy
[20:37:49] <pfred1> hot tea with whiskey and honey
[20:37:56] <PetefromTn_> Ooh that sounds nice
[20:38:02] <pfred1> it is when you're sick
[20:38:06] <PetefromTn_> I love hot tea with honey
[20:38:15] <PetefromTn_> I am feeling a LOT better today
[20:38:23] <pfred1> yeah well the whiskey is the medicinal coimponent
[20:38:26] <PetefromTn_> I actually started feeling better the other night
[20:38:41] <pfred1> I got sick camping once and I didn't have any cold medicine
[20:38:53] <pfred1> so I concocted my cure then
[20:39:06] <PetefromTn_> but today while I am STILL slightly dizzy it is much better and I feel almost normal......well as normal as PetefromTn ever gets I suppose LOL
[20:39:35] <PetefromTn_> a little Hair o' the dog...
[20:39:37] <PetefromTn_> LOL
[20:40:04] <PetefromTn_> Still trying to figure out how I am going to convert my machine back to Imperial native units here.
[20:40:14] <PetefromTn_> Spent some time reading about it a little
[20:40:21] <pfred1> they told you how copy your ini and edit it
[20:40:33] <PetefromTn_> well not really
[20:40:57] <PetefromTn_> I still don't know how to do that since the machine loads linuxCNC upon startup
[20:40:59] <pfred1> as a rule always work on a copy of a configuration file
[20:41:06] <PetefromTn_> well sure
[20:41:08] <unfy> heh
[20:41:16] <PetefromTn_> I can copy it and already have actually
[20:41:41] <pfred1> when you say loads LinuxCNC what do you mean by that acis starts up?
[20:41:42] <PetefromTn_> Right now I am working on the CAD drawing for my Wife's LED Edge lit sign
[20:41:45] <pfred1> axis even
[20:42:12] <PetefromTn_> yeah when I flip the main switch on the back of the machine by the time I walk around the front LinuxCNC Axis is staring me in the face LOL
[20:42:58] <PetefromTn_> Probably going to make it from some furniture grade plywood here and cut the slots on the machine. possibly the outside shape
[20:43:24] <PetefromTn_> Gonna have to glue up a couple pieces
[20:49:02] * unfy fetches a 24v / 10a (minimum) power supply
[20:49:38] <pfred1> I got a boost in performance going from 24 to 28V
[20:49:58] <Tom_itx> i got a boost going from 24 to 48v
[20:50:09] <pfred1> I would imagine
[20:50:12] <unfy> drivers i have are cheap and have 24v as a suggested power supply
[20:50:17] <pfred1> my drives would smoke at 48V
[20:50:34] <unfy> the technically might work at 30v, but i dunno
[20:50:44] <pfred1> TB6560?
[20:51:04] <unfy> based off of it yeah. it's not the blue/red combo board though.
[20:51:20] <pfred1> well if it has those chips it is a TB6560
[20:51:24] <Tom_itx> get better drivers
[20:51:39] <unfy> tom: in due time :D
[20:51:45] <pfred1> right now my drives are the least of my proboems they work fine
[20:51:51] <Tom_itx> i waited quite a while too
[20:51:59] <Tom_itx> me too
[20:52:06] <Tom_itx> i blew out my mesa boards
[20:52:11] <pfred1> when it comes to it I'll make myself better drives too
[20:52:19] <unfy> my plans are 'make something move', 'make improvements', 'make what i really want' or something
[20:53:01] <pfred1> the BT6560 drives i use now i custom made
[20:53:06] <pfred1> TB6560 even
[20:53:37] <pfred1> I like ot think they're a bit better than the far eastern import offerings
[20:53:52] <unfy> i've looked at some of the open source drivers (linstepper etc) ... maybe in time, i dunno.
[20:54:04] <pfred1> I designed my own
[20:55:06] <unfy> i helped a bit 10 years ago here at work with small drivers for unipolar slot machine reels.... buuuuttt.... i'm in no position to do my own higher current stuff from scratch :P
[20:55:53] <pfred1> for the sake of simplicity I didn't make a hole current limit mode but other than that I'm satisfied
[20:55:58] <pfred1> hold current even
[20:56:23] <pfred1> they run good for what they are
[20:56:27] <unfy> i guess i might as well ask
[20:56:36] <pfred1> they were certainly cheap enough for me to make too about $10 a drive
[20:56:56] <pfred1> I used mostly materials i had on hand
[20:57:01] <unfy> would folks suggest a large power supply feeding into some caps that then feed into individual drivers - or individual power supplies for each driver ?
[20:57:17] <pfred1> i have one large PSU
[20:57:39] <pfred1> I made it out of an old PDP 11/34 transformer I had
[20:57:57] <pfred1> I ganged up the two 13.5 AC coils inside of it
[20:58:07] <unfy> i've designed and built a linear isolated 4 output guitar pedal power supply before...
[20:58:16] <Tom_itx> i made mine from surplus too
[20:58:17] <pfred1> they supplied 5 volt rails in the mini computer
[20:58:27] <Tom_itx> found 3 identical transformers and parallel'd em
[20:58:30] <pfred1> so they have gobs of current capacity
[20:58:41] <Tom_itx> 18A i think
[20:58:56] <pfred1> Tom_itx I did basically the same thing nust inside the same transformer
[20:59:01] <pfred1> just inside even
[20:59:23] <pfred1> took 2 coils and put them in series really
[20:59:26] <Tom_itx> i considered unhooking a couple of em since i don't really need em for the sherline
[20:59:36] <Tom_itx> i was thinking ahead when i could get a bigger machine
[20:59:38] <pfred1> to get me higher voltage
[21:00:07] <Tom_itx> my drivers won't handle 96v let alone the steppers
[21:00:15] <pfred1> I know a lot of folks use switching PSUs but I donno there's so much noise with chopper drives as it is
[21:00:35] <pfred1> your steppers likely would handle 300V
[21:00:39] <Tom_itx> i'm rather pleased with the geckos
[21:00:51] <Tom_itx> 80v iirc
[21:00:59] <Tom_itx> on the drivers
[21:01:01] <pfred1> nah motor insulation is usually 300
[21:01:15] <pfred1> ih the drives yes they would have a lower V limit often
[21:01:34] <unfy> i can't convince myself to buy a no name power supply ._.
[21:01:35] <pfred1> that is 80V input
[21:01:50] <pfred1> the drives themselves would see a higher voltage than that due to inductive kickback
[21:02:27] <pfred1> your geckos can handle 150V
[21:02:38] <pfred1> but don't feed them that
[21:03:04] <pfred1> marris uses some pretty beefy mosfets
[21:03:37] <pfred1> he makes great drives but they'er too expensive for me to buy
[21:04:17] <Tom_itx> i only planned on doing it once
[21:04:33] <pfred1> I'm doing this project because i like electronics
[21:04:43] <pfred1> buying drives sort of defeats the purpose
[21:05:09] <Tom_itx> i do too but i wanna see results before i die
[21:05:17] <pfred1> I don't erally care
[21:05:35] <pfred1> I'm in noi rush it is just something I do to pass the time
[21:05:36] <Tom_itx> i enjoy electronics quite a bit but i think i like cnc more
[21:05:44] <Tom_itx> same here really
[21:06:05] <pfred1> I only ever work on my CNC machine when I've nothing better to do
[21:06:37] <unfy> indeed. much like my whole multi step thing for building a cnc... hobbyish stuff at night :P
[21:07:44] <Tom_itx> i have programmed/run the big ones several years back
[21:08:15] <Tom_itx> i just wanna keep fiddling with em in whatever scale i can
[21:09:51] <unfy> fine, went no name anyway ._.
[21:10:10] <pfred1> making a linear supply can be tricky
[21:10:26] <pfred1> transformers are rated kind of funny
[21:10:33] <unfy> i found linear to be straight forward. switching is black magic ._.
[21:10:56] <pfred1> well the trouble is transfirmers usually put out more voltage than they are rated to
[21:11:10] <pfred1> like a 24V transformer will output 28V
[21:11:31] <pfred1> then after you rectify and filter it you'll have maybe 34V
[21:11:46] <PetefromTn_> I wish I was better at electronics maybe I could fix this damn forced air heater LOL
[21:11:53] <unfy> rms can be a bitch :P
[21:12:11] <PetefromTn_> I took it apart
[21:12:14] <PetefromTn_> it has a fuse
[21:12:17] <Tom_itx> what's wrong with it?
[21:12:19] <PetefromTn_> it is not blown
[21:12:19] <pfred1> so to hit an exact V amount with a linear can bs tricky to do
[21:12:41] <PetefromTn_> it was running great and I laid it down on top of a power chord
[21:12:50] <PetefromTn_> then I needed some slack and pulled on the chord
[21:12:59] <PetefromTn_> it popped out from under the base of the heater
[21:13:09] <PetefromTn_> and it dropped that 3/8 inch and shutoff
[21:13:25] <PetefromTn_> after ten minutes or so it would turn back on
[21:13:27] <pfred1> the power cord on my 4x6 bandsaw went on me recently
[21:13:47] <PetefromTn_> went to use it this morning and it won't do anything.
[21:14:00] <Tom_itx> PetefromTn_, maybe there's a temp sensor knocked outta place
[21:14:10] <PetefromTn_> the red led light on the side near the thermostat control won't go on.
[21:14:30] <PetefromTn_> I dunno I took it apart some today trying to find something obvious.
[21:14:45] <pfred1> did you take power measurement readings?
[21:14:50] <PetefromTn_> I use this thing to preheat the shop and it woud suck if I had to buy another one..
[21:14:51] <pfred1> like with a multimeter
[21:14:59] <PetefromTn_> I tried to
[21:15:10] <Tom_itx> pics
[21:15:13] <PetefromTn_> I measured line voltages to the switch etc.
[21:15:18] <PetefromTn_> okay standby
[21:15:22] <PetefromTn_> I will snap some
[21:15:26] <pfred1> so you have power then?
[21:15:45] <pfred1> because cords can go and still look OK
[21:16:19] <pfred1> I just had it happen here to me
[21:16:36] <pfred1> I thought the motor fried was just a bad molded plug
[21:18:29] <pfred1> the conductor breaks inside of the wire and that's that
[21:19:34] <PetefromTn_> nope it has power inside the unit control panel in several places
[21:19:46] <pfred1> oh OK
[21:19:59] <pfred1> then you have to keep tracing the power and see where it isn't going
[21:20:51] <pfred1> or you cna jump the motor out and just make sure it still works
[21:21:06] <pfred1> like supply power directly to it
[21:21:57] <pfred1> trouble shooting is the process of elimination
[21:22:41] <PetefromTn_> http://imgur.com/a/Qi2b3#0 Here is a little album with photos
[21:23:00] <PetefromTn_> forgive the dust I used it even when I do woodworking so it needs a good blowing off
[21:24:45] <Tom_itx> is the relay engaging?
[21:25:20] <pfred1> he says the pilot light doesn't light now
[21:25:56] <pfred1> nothing there looks too sensitive to physical shock to me
[21:26:04] <PetefromTn_> no actually nothing comes on
[21:26:10] <PetefromTn_> not even the power on light
[21:26:36] <pfred1> so you dropped the heater you say?
[21:26:50] <PetefromTn_> yeah like 3/8 inch
[21:26:58] <pfred1> pull the board and look at the solder joints by that transformer on it
[21:27:03] <PetefromTn_> it was running while it happened and it shut down
[21:27:09] <pfred1> see if they look a little cracked
[21:27:13] <PetefromTn_> then it turned back on
[21:27:18] <Tom_itx> maybe it has a tipover switch
[21:27:21] <pfred1> if they do reflow them
[21:27:22] <PetefromTn_> after like ten minutes
[21:27:32] <pfred1> yeah it sounds like a bad solder joint to me
[21:27:34] <PetefromTn_> the next day it would not turn on at all
[21:27:50] <pfred1> solder joints can get heat sensitive
[21:28:18] <Tom_itx> follow the power from the plug
[21:28:27] <Tom_itx> it will turn to dc at the diodes
[21:28:27] <pfred1> some techs just reflow whole boards
[21:29:24] <pfred1> but that transformer is heavy and a jolt might have messed its solder joints up
[21:29:44] <Tom_itx> 3/8" isn't that much
[21:30:09] <pfred1> it would be to you if you were a heavy transformer on a brittle PCB
[21:30:10] <PetefromTn_> gonna grab my magnification goggles and inspect it.
[21:30:37] <PetefromTn_> the whole board is only like 3x6 or something like that
[21:31:12] <pfred1> the relay could have taken a beating too like Tom_itx mentioned
[21:32:27] <_methods> tipover safety shutoff?
[21:32:33] <Tom_itx> my suggestion
[21:32:51] <_methods> gas heater?
[21:33:01] <Tom_itx> space heater
[21:33:05] <_methods> ahh
[21:33:14] <pfred1> it is a reddy heat
[21:33:26] <pfred1> you can search online for common problems too
[21:33:35] <pfred1> there are liek a billion of thoseu nits out there
[21:33:45] <pfred1> people post on the net about fixes
[21:34:17] <pfred1> often you can read forums and see a few things come up again. and again
[21:34:35] <PetefromTn_> its a thermo heat model
[21:35:11] <pfred1> I had a car the headlights wouldn't come on I looked online someone said fiddle with the switch
[21:35:18] <PetefromTn_> rmc-kfa75tl
[21:35:21] <pfred1> sure enough that's what it was
[21:35:45] <pfred1> bad switch
[21:35:47] <PetefromTn_> I thought it might be a tipover switch as well
[21:36:03] <PetefromTn_> but I can't tell where the switch is or even what it looks like.
[21:36:17] <pfred1> then do a web search someoen else did the leg work already
[21:36:58] <pfred1> it is rare today to have au nique problem with a consumer item
[21:37:18] <pfred1> if you're having the problems odds are hundreds others have had it already too
[21:39:04] <pfred1> someone might have even posted a video how to fix it
[21:39:12] <PetefromTn_> indeed
[21:52:57] <s1dev> anyone have any suggestions on how to get a nice set of calipers on the cheap?
[21:53:10] <s1dev> (oxymoron, I know)
[21:53:31] <unfy> what kind of accuracy do you need? length ? digital or analog ?
[21:54:55] <Jymm> chaos theory accuracy =)
[21:55:17] <unfy> then use your fingers :P
[21:57:58] <_methods> auctions and craigslist
[21:58:38] <unfy> if it's 4-6", i'm fond of the calipers I bought for reloading ammunition
[22:05:38] <jdh> $9.99 HF 6" does all I need. (including OAL)
[22:06:09] <unfy> i wouldn't trust HF for ammo, but... it'd prolly be fine "in general"
[22:06:57] <jdh> I don't have any ammo that needs to be better than half-a-thou
[22:07:46] <unfy> it's one of those things that it claims to do certain measurements, but.... i dunno if i'd trust putting my life in it :P
[22:08:55] <jdh> I've checked a couple of mine against my mitutoyo at work. It's not super pricey either but they measure the same
[22:09:11] <unfy> *thumbs up*
[22:09:38] <unfy> being able to compare it to something is handy. still not for me. guess while i'm a bit of "wing it" for cnc stuff... i'm more picky on ammo heh
[22:10:47] <jdh> whatever works for you.
[22:11:17] <Tom_itx> rule of thumb in a shop is you should have 3 ways to check any measurement
[22:11:36] <jdh> with "looks like about 20 thou" being one
[22:11:51] <Tom_itx> not quite what i had in mind
[22:12:09] <jdh> I have 8 or 10 HF ones :)
[22:12:24] <jdh> I'm not sure those really qualify for cross-comparing though
[22:14:10] <Tom_itx> first articles went thru the cmm
[22:14:37] <Tom_itx> and printouts kept with them
[22:16:32] <unfy> just realized i only had a couple microswitches at home suitable for limit switches. 10 pack ordered.
[22:30:45] <PetefromTn_> well shit..
[22:31:12] <PetefromTn_> I just spent the last hour trying to figure out what is wrong with the heater...can't find anything
[22:32:10] <PetefromTn_> Tried reflowing the solder joints on the back of the main board around the power inputs and at that transformer
[22:33:22] <PetefromTn_> there is a funky sorta spark plug that looks fine and there is a thermistor in there in the circuit
[22:34:02] <PetefromTn_> I dunno...
[22:34:24] <Tom_itx> it's an igniter
[22:34:28] <Tom_itx> like on a bbq
[22:34:50] <PetefromTn_> yeah I think so..
[22:34:54] <Tom_itx> no heat sensed by the thermistor it shuts down
[22:35:04] <Tom_itx> or regulates the heat
[22:35:08] <PetefromTn_> you mean too much heat
[22:35:21] <Tom_itx> could go both ways
[22:36:14] <Tom_itx> probably not but it could
[22:36:40] <PetefromTn_> no idea
[22:36:59] <PetefromTn_> I thought about ohming it out but without knowing what it does it would not really help me.
[22:37:13] <Tom_itx> i found a sensor on a heating unit on the sheetmetal that had tripped and caused it not to work
[22:37:28] <Tom_itx> just pushed on it and reset like a breaker
[22:37:35] <Tom_itx> all back to normal
[22:37:36] <PetefromTn_> really pisses me off because number one I need it and number two it hardly dropped you could have bumped it walking by and it would do more damage...
[22:37:56] <Tom_itx> it's something simple
[22:38:03] <Tom_itx> or coincidence
[22:38:05] <PetefromTn_> I looked all over the inside and found nothing like a breaker
[22:38:16] <PetefromTn_> did you see the pictures I posted?
[22:38:26] <Tom_itx> ya
[22:38:41] <PetefromTn_> http://www.allpartsinc.com/mmALLPARTS_NEW/Others/RMC-KFA75125210TL.pdf Here's the manual
[22:40:39] <Tom_itx> fuse is good?
[22:40:48] <PetefromTn_> yeah it is good
[22:41:31] <Tom_itx> power/reset switch
[22:41:38] <Tom_itx> is that a breaker?
[22:41:59] <PetefromTn_> there is a power switch but no breaker that I can see. THe power switch is a simple small switch
[22:42:14] <Tom_itx> that's what i see but it was labelled as such
[22:42:34] <Tom_itx> thermostat turned up?
[22:42:46] <PetefromTn_> yeah I turned it up and down checking.
[22:43:03] <PetefromTn_> You see when it works there is an LED power on light that lets you know it is active
[22:43:15] <PetefromTn_> then when the temp is right it comes on automatically
[22:43:27] <PetefromTn_> right now there is no LED power on light at all
[22:43:34] <PetefromTn_> nothing is working on it
[22:43:45] <PetefromTn_> it is like its dead despite getting power
[22:45:19] <Tom_itx> is there power _on_ the pcb?
[22:45:45] <PetefromTn_> yeah there seems to be power on the input wires and some of the other terminals have 120vac
[22:46:05] <Tom_itx> you got DC on the other side of the diodes?
[22:46:48] <PetefromTn_> not sure lemme check
[22:47:01] <Tom_itx> check across one of the larger caps
[22:47:18] <Tom_itx> that's likely where it turns to dc
[22:48:21] <Tom_L> Utilizes a photocell to monitor the flame in burn chamber during normal operation.
[22:48:21] <Tom_L> It will cause the heater to shut-off should the burner flame extinguish
[22:48:56] <Tom_L> This heaters electrical system is protected by a fuse mounted to the PCB
[22:48:56] <Tom_L> assembly that protects it and other electrical components from damage.
[22:48:56] <Tom_L> If your heater fails to operate check this fuse first and replace as needed
[22:49:21] <Tom_L> don't check the fuse, check for power on both sides of the fuse
[22:50:52] <PetefromTn_> there does not seem to be any DC on the low voltage side of the board.
[22:51:08] <Tom_itx> so it's something between there then
[22:51:09] <PetefromTn_> I will check the fuse voltage hang on...
[22:51:43] <PetefromTn_> I checked the components from each side to ground for the DC.
[22:54:14] <Tom_itx> check across the big cap
[22:54:25] <Tom_itx> nothing there, it's before it gets to the DC
[22:54:45] <Tom_itx> need a better board pic
[22:55:26] <PetefromTn_> there is AC on both sides of the fuse
[22:55:39] <PetefromTn_> there seems to be voltage across the cap too..
[22:55:48] <Tom_itx> how much?
[22:56:34] <PetefromTn_> I am wondering about that photocell thing
[22:56:39] <Tom_itx> yeah
[22:56:47] <Tom_itx> see where it goes to the board
[22:57:01] <PetefromTn_> it goes to the board on that bottom left black connector
[22:57:06] <Tom_itx> there should be some delay before it shuts off due to startup time for the flame
[22:57:26] <Tom_itx> check resistance across those wires with it unplugged
[22:57:43] <Tom_itx> shine a flashlight on the CDS cell and see if it changes
[22:58:01] <PetefromTn_> thats not a bad idea..
[22:58:18] <PetefromTn_> I honeslty got kinda dizzy laying there on the floor working on it again.
[22:58:35] <Tom_itx> then i'd check the relay
[22:58:38] <PetefromTn_> gonna sit down for a bit here and get level hopefully it will go away
[22:59:07] <Tom_itx> at least it looks like a relay...
[22:59:09] <PetefromTn_> feeling much better today but it has still not gone away..
[22:59:19] <PetefromTn_> there seems to be two relays actually on the board
[22:59:26] <PetefromTn_> one is black rectangle
[22:59:30] <PetefromTn_> other is white
[22:59:39] <PetefromTn_> near the middle right
[22:59:48] <Tom_itx> something on the right side of the board isn't on
[22:59:58] <Tom_itx> causing the left side to not work
[23:00:03] <PetefromTn_> yes I agree
[23:00:32] <PetefromTn_> which would cause the power LED to not come on anymore
[23:00:33] <Tom_itx> check for power on the relay coils
[23:00:37] <Tom_itx> yup
[23:00:42] <Tom_itx> it's run by the chip
[23:00:44] <Tom_itx> probably
[23:01:17] <PetefromTn_> I will get back at it here in a little bit I need to sit still sorry man LOL... I appreciate your assitance
[23:01:39] <PetefromTn_> would be nice if I could figure out what is wrong with it and replace a component or something from the shack
[23:01:51] <PetefromTn_> its a damn good heater
[23:01:59] <PetefromTn_> really warms the shop up quickly
[23:02:03] <Tom_itx> it's fixable
[23:02:07] <PetefromTn_> sure
[23:02:20] <PetefromTn_> the thermostat is nice to have too
[23:02:31] <PetefromTn_> the last one I had I had to buy an external thermostat
[23:02:39] <PetefromTn_> and it was kind of a pain in the ass to use
[23:02:47] <PetefromTn_> this one just set it and forget it.
[23:03:02] <PetefromTn_> I usually turn it on in the morning during the winter
[23:03:16] <Tom_L> how old is it?
[23:03:17] <PetefromTn_> and let it run for like 20 minutes or so and knocks the chill off quick
[23:03:30] <PetefromTn_> I dunno a year or two or something like that
[23:03:34] <Tom_L> k
[23:03:53] <Tom_L> not reached the designed fail date yet :D
[23:03:54] <PetefromTn_> then my electric heater out there can maintain it.
[23:04:02] <PetefromTn_> or perhaps it did LOL
[23:04:39] <PetefromTn_> the electric heater is not strong enough to warm the shop from a cold morning or at least it would take all day long to get there...
[23:04:46] <Tom_L> looks like a cheap single sided phenolic board
[23:04:58] <PetefromTn_> yeah it is nothing earth shattering that is for sure.
[23:05:46] <PetefromTn_> I wish I could find a tip over switch or something it would seem to be the most likely issue
[23:05:58] <Tom_L> follow the power and see which relay it goes to first
[23:05:58] <PetefromTn_> but there does not seem to be any mention of it in the manual
[23:06:00] <Tom_L> check that
[23:06:21] <PetefromTn_> OK
[23:06:30] <Tom_L> see what runs the relay
[23:07:08] <Tom_L> or tap on one
[23:07:27] <PetefromTn_> I am wondering if that optical switch thing just shuts the machine down so it wont fire the heater or if it kills the main power...
[23:07:49] <Tom_L> it may be hooked to one of the relays
[23:08:43] <PetefromTn_> that blue wire that runs along the wire goes to some kinda bulb on the right that is zip strapped to the electric plug cable just inside the cabinet.
[23:09:01] <PetefromTn_> not sure if it is a heat sensor or what.
[23:11:16] <Tom_L> http://tom-itx.no-ip.biz:81/~webpage/rue/7I43.jpg
[23:11:17] <Tom_L> o
[23:11:41] <Tom_L> i'd rather have your problem than have to replace U6 & U10
[23:12:09] <Tom_L> i got U9 already
[23:12:20] <PetefromTn_> where are they
[23:12:34] <Tom_L> right side by the chokes
[23:12:35] <unfy> right side
[23:12:51] <Tom_L> 2 smps for the fpga
[23:12:58] <Tom_L> 1.2 and 3.3v
[23:13:34] <Tom_L> bad thing is getting the center pad with no hot air gun
[23:13:53] <PetefromTn_> I see U10 but can't find the others...
[23:14:10] <Tom_L> one by each of the chokes
[23:14:37] <Tom_L> left of U9 and above and right of U9
[23:14:45] <PetefromTn_> oh just above the long slots
[23:15:09] <PetefromTn_> how do you R an R those
[23:15:18] <Tom_L> hot air
[23:15:26] <Tom_L> but i don't have one
[23:15:32] <Tom_L> i may try the toaster oven
[23:15:47] <PetefromTn_> how much is that board?
[23:15:56] <Tom_L> i forget
[23:16:00] <Tom_L> prolly 80 bux
[23:16:16] <Tom_L> i can get a better one for something like 0
[23:16:18] <Tom_L> 60
[23:16:30] <PetefromTn_> better than a Mesa?
[23:16:51] <Tom_L> it is a mesa
[23:17:02] <Tom_L> 7i90? i forget the pn
[23:17:08] <PetefromTn_> ok
[23:17:46] <Tom_L> http://store.mesanet.com/index.php?route=product/product&filter_name=7i90&product_id=291
[23:17:55] <Tom_L> 72 IO instead of 48
[23:18:25] <PetefromTn_> what gets plugged into the long slots?
[23:18:46] <Tom_L> 7i47
[23:19:02] <Tom_L> which i blew too
[23:19:12] <Tom_L> replaced 3 chips on it already
[23:19:25] <PetefromTn_> Oh I know about blowing shit up LOL
[23:19:36] <Tom_L> i still don't know how though
[23:20:02] <PetefromTn_> still not sure if my 7i77 is fixable, getting fixed, or not worth fixing....LOL
[23:21:00] <pcw_home> I fixed it and its been on my desk for a couple weeks now :-(
[23:21:12] <PetefromTn_> LOL really..
[23:21:26] <Tom_L> maybe come payday i'll order a couple boards pcw_home
[23:21:35] <Tom_L> i got the shopping cart full already
[23:21:49] <PetefromTn_> Christmas is coming hehe
[23:21:59] <PetefromTn_> get your order in
[23:22:09] <Tom_L> been too busy to worry about it much this month
[23:22:30] <PetefromTn_> I sure wish I could afford to buy shit for my new lathe here
[23:22:40] <Tom_L> just mounted my new spindle encoder too. haven't been able to test it
[23:22:41] <PetefromTn_> its gonna take a bit to get the cash for that stuff
[23:22:46] <pcw_home> I apologize that it has not been returned we have been so busy that Im just putting out fires
[23:22:54] <PetefromTn_> Oh its okay man
[23:23:02] <Tom_L> for ssi?
[23:23:03] <PetefromTn_> I am not in any hurry
[23:23:08] <Tom_L> couldn't help that...
[23:23:31] <Tom_L> pcw_home, thanks for the chips btw...
[23:24:12] <Tom_L> i know a guy with a hot air gun, i may see if he'll pull em off for me
[23:24:13] <PetefromTn_> I was even considering selling something else to get the parts for the lathe quicker...
[23:24:36] <PetefromTn_> like a kidney er something :D
[23:25:06] <Tom_L> i think the 7i90 is the way to go on this anyway
[23:25:24] <Tom_L> it's just one of those things.. i wanna see if i can fix it
[23:27:17] <Connor> My Christmas is pretty much ruined..
[23:27:29] <PetefromTn_> Oh you too
[23:27:43] <Tom_L> mine isn't that far behind yours
[23:27:48] <PetefromTn_> have you talked to your insurance guys
[23:28:01] <Connor> Since the Mold and stuff was caused by the HVAC condensation issues.. insurance isn't covering anything.
[23:28:19] <PetefromTn_> really?
[23:28:53] <PetefromTn_> I swear I think insurance is a big scam anymore
[23:29:01] <Tom_itx> really?
[23:29:03] <PetefromTn_> I have seldom got them to pay for shit
[23:29:15] <Tom_itx> when wasn't it?
[23:29:36] <Connor> Going to cost $25,000.00 to $30,000.00 to get the mold removed, crawl space remediated, and encapsulated. Doesn't count Having the HVAC duct work replaced and finish work...
[23:30:14] <PetefromTn_> jeez
[23:30:39] <Tom_itx> so let your laser help you out
[23:30:51] <Tom_itx> cause of fire... undetermined..
[23:31:14] <Connor> Tom_itx: I don't have a laser. and I couldn't sleep at night doing that.
[23:31:24] <Tom_itx> well i wouldn't either
[23:31:41] <Tom_itx> just saying..
[23:31:41] <Connor> So, January 5th, they're going to come and start work. We're going to have to live in a RV for 1 or 2 weeks..
[23:31:59] <Connor> because we have 5 dogs and I work from home.
[23:32:21] <PetefromTn_> did you get a loan to pay for all of that?
[23:33:08] <Connor> Home Equality line of credit. Started the process today.
[23:33:40] <Connor> You know... I'm 39 years old.. and we have 6 years left to pay off the house.. the HELOC is going to have to be for 10 years..
[23:33:46] <PetefromTn_> I guess you need to decide if your house is worth that much or not
[23:34:09] <Connor> Would have to be repaired regardless...
[23:34:22] <Connor> couldn't sell in the condition it's in.
[23:34:37] <Connor> at least... not for enough to be worth while
[23:35:15] <Connor> We're going to talk to the HVAC company who installed the unit..
[23:35:23] <PetefromTn_> I would look at all options before I made a decision...
[23:36:05] <PetefromTn_> even extreme ones..
[23:36:23] <PetefromTn_> NOT ILLEGAL extreme ones.
[23:36:37] <Connor> The new supply duct we had them add for the sunroom and my workshop, goes up through a closet in the back office... the closet is never used.. and stays closed.. There is mold in the closet next to the duct work...
[23:36:44] <Connor> something is WAY wrong with that.
[23:37:56] <Connor> someone saying that they may have not taken into account the duct work with the upsizing of the HVAC and the duct work might be too small.
[23:40:58] <PetefromTn_> no idea man
[23:41:16] <PetefromTn_> mostly the size is based on the square footage of the living space
[23:41:55] <Connor> Yes, but if duct work is too small.. it increases pressure, air moves faster, and the duct work gets colder and it condensates more.
[23:43:09] <PetefromTn_> I doubt you will get any cooperation from the AC company but you might want to talk to a lawyer about it too...
[23:43:15] <Connor> and, we told them when we got the new system, we wanted to keep the house colder than the old unit could do.. it was having issues keeping temperatures around 78 or 80 in the summer.. we like it much cooler than that..
[23:43:37] <PetefromTn_> well yeah LOL
[23:43:57] <Connor> It's a reputable company, and I'm sure they don't want their name dragged through the mudd.
[23:44:32] <PetefromTn_> I hope so for your sake.
[23:44:54] <Connor> We'll Don Dare their A$$ (for those of you not local, that's a Local News reporter who goes after company for consumer affairs stuff..)
[23:45:09] <Connor> It's worth a shot.
[23:45:17] <PetefromTn_> Well I am gonna hit the sack. Good luck
[23:51:17] <zeeshan|2> has anyone worked on some dental machines before
[23:54:03] <Tom_itx> i've been behind a few
[23:54:15] <zeeshan|2> one of my dad's components broke
[23:54:17] <zeeshan|2> on the tray
[23:54:21] <Tom_itx> that's about the extent of it
[23:54:21] <zeeshan|2> i cant tell what material it is
[23:54:28] <zeeshan|2> its either mangesium or aluminum
[23:54:30] <zeeshan|2> i really cant tell
