#linuxcnc | Logs for 2014-11-23

[00:00:02] <zeeshan|2> thats not a hobbyist
[00:00:08] <zeeshan|2> :P
[00:00:14] <XXCoder> theres bad shop videos too
[00:01:14] <LeelooMinai> That's not a hobbyist - it's a dedicated pro who even cut all the hair so it does not go into power tools
[00:01:35] <XXCoder> funny thing I do same thing by accient
[00:01:36] <zeeshan|2> rofl
[00:01:39] <XXCoder> my hair grows so slowly
[00:02:25] <XXCoder> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HalUbo8e-F0
[00:02:50] <XXCoder> oh rheres microwave smelting too lemme get link when done watch that lol
[00:03:11] <XXCoder> more like "watch stills" as I cant watch handheld videos
[00:03:20] <LeelooMinai> XXCoder: Ok, I want it to be cheap, but melting coke cans is crossing the line
[00:03:28] <XXCoder> why?
[00:03:42] <LeelooMinai> ...
[00:03:52] <XXCoder> too much coke in life already? ;)
[00:04:00] <XXCoder> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GwQ4C2dNkp4
[00:04:33] <XXCoder> guys nuts eh
[00:05:05] <LeelooMinai> I wonder if that is 6061 grade - probably not:p
[00:05:12] <XXCoder> way off im sure
[00:05:47] <XXCoder> man
[00:05:49] <XXCoder> my brain sucks
[00:05:55] <XXCoder> I wish I can watch handheld videos
[00:06:23] <XXCoder> interesting https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O_TU-PCudoE
[00:09:20] <XXCoder> wow thats so high quality lol
[00:09:50] <XXCoder> all exposed to air like that is probably why theres so much crud on top of melted alum.
[00:09:59] <XXCoder> he should have used lid or something
[00:23:59] <XXCoder> LeelooMinai: good luck though :)
[00:24:04] <XXCoder> with that concerete test
[02:14:26] <Deejay> moin
[05:38:34] <archivist> rob_h, what diameter does your sliding head handle? and can it face and side mill
[05:53:01] <rob_h> 20mm
[05:53:08] <rob_h> yea 2 power holders on cross slide
[05:54:49] <rob_h> it only has indexing no C axis so can not contour mill
[06:01:00] <archivist> I just made a part for someone fits a standard 1/4 drive screw driver but is for a ring nut with 4 pegs on the face 19mm dia
[06:02:11] <archivist> rather surprised I cannot find the right ring nut spanner/driver, just contemplated
[06:02:23] <archivist> contemplating
[06:04:23] <rob_h> kinda thing you use a C spanner on
[06:04:51] <archivist> these are in a panel recess
[06:05:08] <rob_h> yea kinda makes it hard to get onto, you want like a socket that fits it
[06:05:30] <archivist> a tube with pegs
[06:05:46] <rob_h> http://www.toolstop.co.uk/sealey-cv008-axle-hub-nut-socket-for-scania-420-3-4sq-drive-p65154
[06:06:23] <archivist> sort of yes but fits CB microphone sockets
[06:07:26] <archivist> I did have fun failing to undo a scania crankshaft nut once
[06:07:52] <archivist> it laughed at my torque multiplier
[06:08:34] <rob_h> take you need a few of these or just 1?
[06:10:18] <archivist> I made the one :) was thinking is there a market and I know who can make them
[06:10:36] <rob_h> we have the tech haha
[06:11:14] <rob_h> have to show us a pic of what it fits too and what is is ur making prob understand abit better then
[06:11:17] <archivist> I made this one part lathe part 5 axis,
[06:12:29] <archivist> but I can see it can either be made on a sliding head or piss about with 2" lengths on the 5 axis
[06:13:44] <rob_h> yea only thing is dont have face milling but might be something you can do other ways instead of milling
[06:14:30] <rob_h> i need to get the other superlsant retrored as that has Z and X milling on top turret
[06:15:19] <rob_h> poping out for abit back later
[06:15:47] <archivist> cya
[10:15:58] <Tom_itx> pcw_home, what's the difference between the pin_svst2_4_7i47_72.vhd and pin_svst2_4_7i47d_72.vhd ?
[10:17:08] <pcw_home> D probably means it has the DPLL module
[10:19:34] <Tom_itx> which would i use for the 7i90?
[10:19:38] <Tom_itx> either?
[10:21:46] <Tom_itx> oh.. i see
[10:22:15] <Tom_itx> what's teh dpll function for?
[10:25:00] <pcw_home> retiming the input sampling time on absolute encoders and stepgens (so far, quadrature encoder still left to do)
[10:27:23] <pcw_home> makes position feedback much more tolerant of jitter (200 jitter usec is liveable at 2400 IPM with DPLL for example)
[10:33:58] <ssi> is that just a firmware difference, or is there a hardware difference required as well?
[10:34:02] <pcw_home> (without DPLL, 200 usec delay spikes show up as a 8 mill noise spikes in the control loop at 2400 IPM )
[10:34:24] <ssi> dpll is on the fpgas I'd think?
[10:34:36] <Tom_itx> yes
[10:34:42] <Tom_itx> a hm2 function
[10:34:49] <pcw_home> This is a DPLL in normal FPGA fabric
[10:35:24] <pcw_home> not the FPGA specific clock manager DPLL
[10:35:52] <ssi> gotcha
[10:36:10] <Tom_itx> probably wouldn't matter on my setup then
[10:36:21] <Tom_itx> i'll never reach 2400 ipm
[10:36:35] <ssi> try harder! :D
[10:36:39] <pcw_home> no, its mainly forPreemt-RT/ Ethernet
[10:37:15] <Tom_itx> i assume the 7i90 would work as a drop in replacement for the 7i43
[10:37:24] <pcw_home> Pretty much
[10:37:29] <Tom_itx> if i'm unable to fix this thing
[10:37:36] <Tom_itx> except more io
[10:37:54] <Tom_itx> use the _72 bit files instead of the _48 ones
[10:38:29] <pcw_home> more I/O, faster clocks, SPI, Serial, Sserial remote modes)
[10:39:31] <Tom_itx> don't forget cheaper :D
[10:40:04] <pcw_home> Well its build cheaper (linear supplies etc)
[10:41:12] <pcw_home> Whee! Xilinx finally came out with a small Artix chip. will start using that on new designs
[10:41:37] <Tom_itx> what's it got that makes it nicer??
[10:41:39] <ssi> whats the part num?
[10:42:07] <ssi> XC7A15T? or smaller than that
[10:42:51] <pcw_home> Yea the -35 was the smallest until a week or so ago
[10:43:43] <pcw_home> so you can get a pin compatible chip from -15 to -100 in the same 256 BGA
[10:43:52] <ssi> looks like the 15 isn't available at digikey yet
[10:44:09] <pcw_home> it wont be available for a while
[10:44:30] <ssi> do you have an idea what the price is gonna be like relative to the s6 lx9?
[10:45:00] <ssi> also I wonder if it'll be supported by the free tools
[10:45:10] <pcw_home> my guess is the -15 will be like $18 (the -35 is $30)
[10:45:30] <pcw_home> yes its supported by the free tools
[10:45:50] <Tom_itx> webpack?
[10:46:01] <pcw_home> vivado
[10:46:05] <Tom_itx> or it's replacement..
[10:46:08] <Tom_itx> yeah that
[10:46:11] <ssi> cool
[10:46:17] <Tom_itx> have you started using that yet?
[10:46:35] <pcw_home> avago vivado avacodo
[10:46:38] <ssi> hahah
[10:47:02] <pcw_home> Not yet just played a bit
[10:47:17] <Tom_itx> similar to webpack or a whole different animal?
[10:47:43] <pcw_home> looked similar (basically just different front end)
[10:48:03] <pcw_home> so scripts should be similar
[10:48:23] <awallin> will the artix7 eventually replace the spartan6?
[10:48:57] <pcw_home> probably but Xilinx supports stuff for a looong time
[10:49:39] <pcw_home> our little embedded processors run at 200MHz in Artix (vs ~120 MHz in SP6)
[10:50:31] <pcw_home> plus the built in dual 12 bit 1 ms/sec A-Ds are nice
[10:53:42] * JT-Shop wonders if he want's try and learn c or c++ again...
[10:53:59] <pcw_home> again?
[10:54:17] <ssi> it's like riding a bike! :D
[10:54:42] <_methods> or a bull
[10:58:10] <JT-Shop> well trying again to learn one or the other
[10:58:27] <ssi> I'd definitely go C
[10:58:55] <Tom_itx> agree
[10:59:14] <Tom_itx> JT-Shop do you have the K&R book?
[11:00:43] <archivist> C for raw power :)
[11:01:53] <_methods> you should learn ruby that's the best language of ALL
[11:02:07] <_methods> you'll unlock the power of skinny jeans
[11:02:09] <ssi> hahahah
[11:02:29] <_methods> and the frappucino
[11:03:56] <JT-Shop> Tom_itx, no
[11:04:08] <Tom_itx> pm
[11:04:28] <archivist> you need the 2nd ed for the joke in K&R
[11:04:38] <JT-Shop> got it thanks
[11:05:14] <TekniQue> what is the joke?
[11:05:32] <archivist> look up recursion in the index
[11:07:12] <TekniQue> haha
[11:07:21] <TekniQue> the last entry refers to itself
[11:19:39] <shaun413> hi
[11:19:42] <shaun413> anyone hve a flir?
[11:23:48] * JT-Shop has worked through the first example, compiled and ran
[11:34:27] <Tom_itx> JT-Shop what compiler are you using?
[11:34:49] <JT-Shop> gcc
[11:35:48] <Tom_itx> pcw_home does IoPortTag have 2 instances on the _48 and 3 on the _72 because of the extra header?
[12:06:42] <Tom_itx> pcw_home, i'm guessing so since _96 has 4
[12:22:16] <Tom_itx> also, do you load the bit files to the 7i90 the same as you do on the 5i25 with mesaflash?
[12:22:25] <Tom_itx> instead of in the ini file?
[14:50:59] <renesis> http://www.penn-elcom.com/Part-IMG/MED/Hardware/Dishes/D0604-01.jpg
[14:51:27] <renesis> heh, im not sure but i think thats it as far as penn elcom mech drawings
[14:52:08] <LeelooMinai> Any ideas what would be acceptable weight for XY table of 21" by 21" sitting on 3 blocks on 20mm rails? I am trying to get sense of what would be too heavy and cause problems, but not sure how to go about it...
[14:52:15] <LeelooMinai> 4 blocks*
[14:53:17] <LeelooMinai> The rails/blocks are typical Chinese 20mm ones, that look like this: http://www.aliexpress.com/item/2-pcs-SBR20-L-600mm-Linear-Rails-4-pcs-SBR20UU-straight-line-motion-block-for-SFU2005/838174537.html
[14:54:02] <LeelooMinai> I would not like to make a table that would be too heavy and wore them off or something
[15:56:37] <zeeshan> LeelooMinai: how much deflection
[15:57:06] <zeeshan> youre going to hit your deflection limit a lot more before your contact stress limit
[15:57:16] <zeeshan> contact stress limit being what will cause wear issues
[15:58:59] <zeeshan> how many mounts will you use to attach the table to the rails?
[15:59:47] <LeelooMinai> it will be attached to aluminum bed that already sits on 4 blocks
[15:59:57] <zeeshan> on each corner of the table?
[16:00:27] <zeeshan> take the weight of the table divide it by 4 and
[16:00:33] <CaptHindsight> you can run the numbers and determine ~how much deflection you'll have
[16:00:38] <LeelooMinai> No, the bed is narrower than 21" - 8.5"
[16:00:42] <zeeshan> treat the rail as a simple supported beam
[16:01:01] <zeeshan> http://www.efunda.com/formulae/solid_mechanics/beams/casestudy_display.cfm?case=simple_2symload
[16:01:05] <zeeshan> you can use that
[16:01:25] <CaptHindsight> IF we knew what the material is
[16:01:30] <zeeshan> rail is steel
[16:01:45] <zeeshan> e= 200GPa
[16:01:46] <zeeshan> or 30kpsi
[16:01:47] <LeelooMinai> The rails are supported
[16:01:47] <zeeshan> ksi
[16:01:48] <CaptHindsight> but Chinese mystery bearing shiny stuff
[16:02:15] <CaptHindsight> you're better off just measuring the deflection
[16:02:18] <LeelooMinai> And sit on rather big aluminum rectangular tubes
[16:02:24] <zeeshan> shes designing :P
[16:02:29] <CaptHindsight> models will just be a ballpark
[16:02:47] <zeeshan> LeelooMinai: assume the big tubes to be fixed
[16:02:53] <zeeshan> your 20mmshafts will bend first
[16:02:56] <LeelooMinai> Well, I just need some more or less sane numbers
[16:03:11] <zeeshan> youll get results wiuthin +/-10%
[16:03:14] <zeeshan> using that calculator
[16:03:28] <zeeshan> as long as you give it the right dimensions!
[16:03:31] <LeelooMinai> They will bend even if they are supported on the whole length?
[16:03:40] <zeeshan> OH
[16:03:46] <zeeshan> i thought they were floating
[16:03:47] <zeeshan> :P
[16:04:09] <CaptHindsight> ask for a drawing or model vs 1000 questions
[16:04:12] <zeeshan> that is a statically indeterminate problem :P
[16:04:23] <LeelooMinai> Yes, I don't really worry about those bending - more like wearing off the bearings
[16:04:50] <zeeshan> http://www.amesweb.info/HertzianContact/HertzianContact.aspx#.VHJVU8kf6_0
[16:04:54] <CaptHindsight> it depends on how cruchy they are when they arrive
[16:04:59] <zeeshan> then youre looking at hertzian stresse.
[16:04:59] <LeelooMinai> 4 blocks - say if I put 7kg on each block - will it be a problem?
[16:05:05] <zeeshan> no
[16:05:30] <LeelooMinai> Where would the problems start?
[16:05:37] <LeelooMinai> At what weights?
[16:05:42] <zeeshan> without knowing the ball size in your bearing
[16:05:56] <CaptHindsight> when they dropped the rails and bearing into the dirt before assembly
[16:06:02] <zeeshan> but ball park around 700lb
[16:06:05] <zeeshan> in that range
[16:06:26] <zeeshan> lol capt
[16:06:30] <LeelooMinai> That would suggest I should just stop worrying about the weight of the table.
[16:06:51] <zeeshan> weight of the table just means more mass to move
[16:06:56] <zeeshan> which loads up your steppers :P
[16:07:13] <CaptHindsight> LeelooMinai: contamination is your greatest concern, clean and repack when you get them
[16:07:14] <LeelooMinai> Yes, but I am not going for some super-fast setup
[16:07:15] <SpeedEvil> or unloads them if the inertia of the table ishelping
[16:07:31] <zeeshan> SpeedEvil: there is still friction
[16:07:35] <zeeshan> even though theyre ball screws
[16:07:45] <SpeedEvil> zeeshan: not if you use maglev
[16:07:48] <zeeshan> haha
[16:07:49] <zeeshan> :D
[16:08:11] <LeelooMinai> There would still be friction:)
[16:08:16] <zeeshan> yea air
[16:08:21] <CaptHindsight> first of all did you convert everything to newtons?
[16:08:22] <zeeshan> =P
[16:08:26] <LeelooMinai> No, magnetic forces + metal
[16:08:33] <zeeshan> o
[16:08:40] <LeelooMinai> Just not very big one
[16:10:15] <SpeedEvil> LeelooMinai: vacuum
[16:10:23] <LeelooMinai> As to my concrete table - I think I should not embed aluminum t-slots in them
[16:10:37] * SpeedEvil has been whittling on graniterecently
[16:10:48] <LeelooMinai> Since aluminum expands at higher rate then concrete
[16:10:59] <zeeshan> what are you designing a space shuttle
[16:11:00] <SpeedEvil> Cutting a 10*10*14.1cm*10m slice off my house
[16:11:00] <LeelooMinai> But where I will get steel t-slots inserts...
[16:11:04] <zeeshan> that is gonna see massive thermal gradients?
[16:11:04] <zeeshan> lol
[16:11:17] <SpeedEvil> LeelooMinai: ebay
[16:11:19] <zeeshan> SpeedEvil: using what tool?
[16:11:25] <SpeedEvil> zeeshan: 10" angle grinder
[16:11:30] <zeeshan> diamond disc?
[16:11:32] <SpeedEvil> yes
[16:11:34] <zeeshan> nice
[16:11:37] <LeelooMinai> ebay is not that great for ordering heavy stuff made from steel
[16:11:38] <CaptHindsight> LeelooMinai: what size table do you want?
[16:11:44] <LeelooMinai> 21x21
[16:12:01] <LeelooMinai> I thought of mixing steel and concrete to make it
[16:12:12] <LeelooMinai> With t-slots
[16:12:17] <CaptHindsight> epoxy + granite
[16:12:24] <LeelooMinai> That's too expensive
[16:12:36] <CaptHindsight> epoxy + polyester
[16:12:37] <zeeshan> http://nicoyektai.com/blog/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2013/09/concrete-dining-table.jpg
[16:12:42] <zeeshan> this is what LeelooMinai is imagining
[16:12:47] <CaptHindsight> <$50
[16:13:02] <LeelooMinai> Yes, well, they make kitchen countertops from concrete
[16:13:11] <LeelooMinai> I think it could work for my table
[16:13:19] <CaptHindsight> it won't hold up well
[16:13:25] <zeeshan> CaptHindsight: let her do it
[16:13:27] <zeeshan> :D
[16:13:32] <CaptHindsight> unless you acrylate the concrete
[16:13:48] <LeelooMinai> Not bare concrete - bottom from steel probably and with some mesh inside to reinforce it
[16:13:50] <SpeedEvil> CaptHindsight: or apply granite tiles to thetop
[16:13:52] <CaptHindsight> I'm not stopping anyone
[16:14:35] <LeelooMinai> What can happpen in the worst - it could crack, but unlikely if done right
[16:14:42] <zeeshan> http://www.google.ca/imgres?imgurl=http%3A%2F%2F3.bp.blogspot.com%2F-X-tOKguaD7U%2FUKhQCR-YaRI%2FAAAAAAAAAco%2FcpEjw900HuU%2Fs1600%2FDSCF1056.JPG&imgrefurl=http%3A%2F%2Fcnc-build.blogspot.com%2F&h=1200&w=1600&tbnid=Zm8vRjBevPLEhM%3A&zoom=1&docid=pZzuteBizRJnWM&ei=g1dyVMu2IJKVyATekIDoCQ&tbm=isch&client=firefox-a&ved=0CBwQMygBMAE&iact=rc&uact=3&dur=146&page=1&start=0&ndsp=45
[16:14:44] <zeeshan> er
[16:14:47] <LeelooMinai> It withstands winters and hot supper
[16:14:49] <zeeshan> http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-X-tOKguaD7U/UKhQCR-YaRI/AAAAAAAAAco/cpEjw900HuU/s1600/DSCF1056.JPG
[16:14:50] <zeeshan> :D
[16:14:51] <LeelooMinai> summers*
[16:14:54] <LeelooMinai> supper, lol
[16:15:23] <LeelooMinai> red oeak cnc ftw?
[16:15:30] <zeeshan> http://02c9c5d.netsolhost.com/images/Precision_Router/Precision_CNC_Router.jpg
[16:15:33] <zeeshan> how much is a table like that
[16:15:38] <zeeshan> in 21"x21"
[16:15:47] <LeelooMinai> Too much from ebay
[16:15:56] <zeeshan> how much
[16:15:58] <LeelooMinai> Maybe if I was not in Canada
[16:15:59] <zeeshan> im curious for self knowledge
[16:16:15] <CaptHindsight> t-slot in epoxy granite
[16:16:33] <LeelooMinai> CaptHindsight: I cannot get that epoxy granite for reasonable price here
[16:16:33] <CaptHindsight> and don't keep the router by the door
[16:16:52] <CaptHindsight> it's <15% epoxy
[16:17:00] <LeelooMinai> At least so far I did not find eny reasonable source for it
[16:17:13] <LeelooMinai> Right, and I cannot even buy epoxy easily
[16:17:19] <zeeshan> \??
[16:17:21] <jdh> c'mon, everyone has epoxy
[16:17:21] <zeeshan> home depot has it
[16:17:22] <CaptHindsight> a quart of fibergalss resin and granite pebbles
[16:17:29] <renesis> heh nice
[16:17:37] <LeelooMinai> zeeshan: Then show me (the Canadian one that is)
[16:17:42] <Deejay> gn8
[16:17:46] <renesis> would make an awesome looking countertop
[16:18:04] <jdh> every boat store has great epoxy
[16:18:27] <CaptHindsight> http://www.homedepot.ca/product/bondo-fiberglass-resin/924724 whole gallon
[16:18:28] <renesis> also check 3d art supply places
[16:18:54] <LeelooMinai> CaptHindsight: "unavailable in your area" for me
[16:19:01] <zeeshan> lol
[16:19:04] <zeeshan> you can buy that at ct
[16:19:16] <renesis> bodywork is illegal in .ca
[16:19:19] <zeeshan> yea!
[16:19:25] <zeeshan> i got all my supplies illegally :D
[16:19:28] <_methods> find a used surface plate
[16:19:32] <zeeshan> actually one thing is hard to get in canada
[16:19:33] <_methods> they go for cheap
[16:19:36] <zeeshan> ppg paints
[16:19:41] <zeeshan> in solvent form
[16:19:45] <zeeshan> you can get waterborne..
[16:19:56] <renesis> new surface plates from enco not too much
[16:20:01] <zeeshan> i ended up spraying the car with house of kolors
[16:20:03] <CaptHindsight> why do you want solvent urethanes?
[16:20:14] <zeeshan> CaptHindsight: my paint equipment is meant for it
[16:20:26] <zeeshan> and you dont need crazy air circulation either
[16:20:27] <roycroft> if you live in nevada surface plates from enco are not too expensive
[16:20:35] <zeeshan> considering i was painting one car
[16:20:39] <CaptHindsight> I use a roller
[16:20:39] <zeeshan> it was easier/cheaper
[16:20:39] <roycroft> if you live elsewhere triple the price
[16:20:44] <renesis> i guess shipping is fucked
[16:21:06] <CaptHindsight> House of Kolor is nice
[16:21:15] <zeeshan> a bit expensive though :/
[16:21:24] <zeeshan> metallic black was like 500 for a gallon
[16:21:31] <zeeshan> another 500 for clearcoat
[16:21:32] <CaptHindsight> now I make my own
[16:21:39] <roycroft> there was an 8" thick 24"x36" starrett surface plate with a starrett stand on cl here for $300 recently
[16:21:43] <roycroft> i wish i had room for it
[16:21:50] <CaptHindsight> ouch, I need to sell in Canada
[16:21:51] <renesis> neat
[16:21:54] <roycroft> and a way to unload it off my truck
[16:22:04] <roycroft> i have an 18"x24" surface plate
[16:22:05] <zeeshan> capt some of house of kolors candy colors
[16:22:11] <zeeshan> are easily 3000 bux a gallon!!
[16:22:14] <zeeshan> its CRAZY
[16:22:16] <roycroft> i have a 12"x18" one as well
[16:22:21] <zeeshan> even in the US.
[16:22:31] <CaptHindsight> why I make my own
[16:23:04] <LeelooMinai> Hmm, but seriously - is there something weird in Canada when it comes to that fiberglass resin or you were joking? :)
[16:23:43] <zeeshan> LeelooMinai: .. google!
[16:23:43] <zeeshan> http://www.canadiantire.ca/en/automotive/auto-repair-tools/auto-tools-accessories/bondo-resin-repair-kit-1-l-0475824p.html?utm_campaign=bazaarvoice&utm_medium=Default&utm_source=AskAndAnswer&utm_content=Default
[16:23:48] <renesis> it might be controlled for health reasons
[16:23:54] <zeeshan> renesis: no
[16:23:59] <zeeshan> its available everywhere
[16:24:03] <CaptHindsight> http://www.marineoutfitters.ca/index.cfm?category=10060|10075|10699&product=27189131&code=811343012595
[16:24:17] <roycroft> just do what every other canadian does
[16:24:20] <CaptHindsight> marineoutfitters.ca
[16:24:23] <LeelooMinai> Thats' 1L for $33
[16:24:31] <roycroft> pop across the border, go to a discount auto parts store, buy some bondo and smear it on your car in the parking lot
[16:24:48] * roycroft lived in a border town for too many years
[16:24:50] <zeeshan> lol roycroft
[16:24:53] <renesis> so like, why are we using granite and resin as machine tables?
[16:25:01] <renesis> i missed that part
[16:25:11] <CaptHindsight> I need to make a video howto
[16:25:11] <roycroft> i actually like the canadians i have met in canadia
[16:25:30] <CaptHindsight> Canadia lol
[16:25:34] <roycroft> it's only the trailer park crowd who came down across the border to shop every weekend
[16:25:54] <renesis> <3 canadian border guard
[16:26:07] <roycroft> and head to the all-you-can-eat buffet
[16:26:12] <LeelooMinai> 21" x 21" x 1.5" is about 10 litres
[16:26:34] <LeelooMinai> I guess most of it will be the granite (not sure where I would get it either)
[16:26:35] <jdh> mostly gravel
[16:26:40] <jdh> home depot
[16:26:49] <jdh> yes, gravel is legal in .ca
[16:26:55] <zeeshan> no its not
[16:27:00] <roycroft> it has to be
[16:27:05] <zeeshan> they have a ban for it
[16:27:08] <LeelooMinai> It may not be - due to possibility of infants swollowing it and chocking
[16:27:09] <roycroft> once you get 150km away from the border that's all the roads are made of
[16:27:09] <zeeshan> theyre using it on the roads
[16:27:12] <zeeshan> we have too little of it
[16:27:14] <renesis> gravel can put your eye out
[16:27:16] <CaptHindsight> so figure 1.5L for resin the rest is aggregate
[16:27:18] <SpeedEvil> I've wondered about a CNC gravel packer
[16:27:37] <LeelooMinai> cnc gravel packer?
[16:27:45] <SpeedEvil> spread out a layer of gravel over say a 10m square surface.
[16:28:03] <SpeedEvil> then the thing goes over and 3d scans every bit - picking itup and turning it over
[16:28:06] <renesis> so would be more of a robot
[16:28:23] <SpeedEvil> It then does a 3d jigsaw to arbitrary shapes
[16:28:27] <renesis> or itd be huge and portable?
[16:28:36] <LeelooMinai> SpeedEvil: If you thought about it, you have far too much time on your hands:)
[16:28:45] <SpeedEvil> I was thinking of something lightweight and tiny
[16:28:55] <SpeedEvil> It's the step on from the gravel sorter
[16:29:07] <LeelooMinai> OK, so that granite filler - what would they name it?
[16:29:15] <SpeedEvil> which takes assorted gravel on a drive, and makes pictures with it according to colour.
[16:29:24] <CaptHindsight> vision guided robotic pebble picker
[16:29:50] <renesis> you want to make gravel and resin mandelas?
[16:29:53] <renesis> thats pretty cool
[16:30:25] <LeelooMinai> I tried to find something with "granite" in it, but all I get are some coutertops
[16:30:35] <renesis> def sell that to bars
[16:30:49] <LeelooMinai> Should I grind one of those into pebbles? :)
[16:30:51] <renesis> why cant you use countertop
[16:31:10] <zeeshan> thats what i was thinking
[16:31:16] <zeeshan> and instead of t-slots just use threaded inserts
[16:31:19] <renesis> they make resin + pebble counters
[16:31:21] <zeeshan> would be easier and cheaper and less handle
[16:31:24] <zeeshan> *hassle
[16:31:25] <renesis> they make resin + random counters
[16:31:33] <zeeshan> you can go buy an offcut for like $20
[16:31:34] <CaptHindsight> http://www.homedepot.ca/product/crushed-stone-dust-25kg/958152 similar
[16:31:36] <renesis> ive seen resin filled with coiled metal chips
[16:31:40] <zeeshan> and use your cnc to drill holes in it
[16:31:46] <zeeshan> and hammer in some inserts
[16:31:47] <SpeedEvil> I've wondered about a composite maker
[16:31:47] <zeeshan> done
[16:32:06] <LeelooMinai> Crashed stone dust - lol, that sounds pretty ub-specifric
[16:32:13] <LeelooMinai> un*
[16:32:20] <SpeedEvil> LeelooMinai: talk to your builders merchant
[16:32:26] <roycroft> i think you should build a rock crusher, and smash the granite up with that
[16:32:31] <renesis> http://www.portolavalley.net/Home/ShowImage?id=94&t=635393271701670000
[16:32:33] <renesis> so sexy
[16:32:44] <roycroft> you get some nice granite pebbles/dust, plus another big machine
[16:32:46] <LeelooMinai> Or just visit local cementary with a happer and a bucket
[16:32:47] <roycroft> it's a win-win
[16:32:51] <LeelooMinai> hammer*
[16:32:52] <SpeedEvil> http://www.ebuildingsupplies.co.uk/category/granite-granite-chippings-granite-to-dust-not-decorative---see-landscape--gardening-for-/584/;jsessionid=2752A691E49781EE49F58C0001F648DE.ebs2
[16:33:01] <SpeedEvil> http://www.ebuildingsupplies.co.uk/product/6mm-to-dust-granite---bulk--jumbo-bag/1003640/
[16:33:19] <renesis> so it this to mold in t slots or something?
[16:33:32] <CaptHindsight> http://www.homedepot.ca/product/king-pea-gravel-30-kg/984853 look for a smaller version of this
[16:33:35] <renesis> why does this need to be fabbed from scratch
[16:33:35] <LeelooMinai> Yes, to make a table
[16:33:39] <SpeedEvil> you take that, and larger aggregate - say up to 50mm - and mix it in
[16:33:41] <CaptHindsight> or this with a hammer
[16:34:09] <LeelooMinai> SpeedEvil: 50mm is a rock you can throw at someone and kill them
[16:34:24] <renesis> so youre going to make a mold with tslot profiles and pour around it?
[16:34:39] <LeelooMinai> renesis: That's a working plan for now
[16:34:47] <renesis> hardcore
[16:34:47] <LeelooMinai> With some mesh inside probably
[16:34:56] <renesis> you have ideas for getting the profiles out?
[16:35:03] <LeelooMinai> Well, this is the cheapest possibility I came up with
[16:35:15] <LeelooMinai> Yes, pneumatic hammer? :)
[16:35:18] <renesis> seems cool but i would worry about getting the profiles stuck in it
[16:35:39] <LeelooMinai> Wait, why would I want to remove them?
[16:35:43] <renesis> 2ft is a lot of surface area, the profiles prob wont be perfectly flat
[16:35:47] <renesis> oh
[16:36:04] <renesis> so youre putting in metal tslot channels and leaving them
[16:36:06] <LeelooMinai> I just want t-slots inside the table for fixing stuff
[16:36:09] <LeelooMinai> yes
[16:36:14] <renesis> okay
[16:36:16] <Nick001-shop> any info on cutting a tapered thread with G76?
[16:36:24] <CaptHindsight> http://www.planetnatural.com/product/sul-po-mag-50-lb/ look for pebble this size
[16:36:31] <renesis> hardcore, gl
[16:36:33] <jdh> I think JT had stuff to do tapered threads
[16:36:51] <Nick001-shop> link?
[16:36:58] <LeelooMinai> Hmm
[16:37:25] <LeelooMinai> http://www.homedepot.ca/product/all-purpose-gravel-30kg/958163
[16:37:31] <LeelooMinai> What exactly is "grave" made of?
[16:37:35] <LeelooMinai> gravel*
[16:37:47] <Tom_itx> depends
[16:37:51] <SpeedEvil> gravel is small crushed rock
[16:38:03] <SpeedEvil> sand is smaller crushed (or dredged) rock
[16:38:04] <LeelooMinai> Would it work too instead of granite specifically?
[16:38:14] <LeelooMinai> Or I want granite
[16:38:18] <SpeedEvil> you get gravel and sand made of all rocks
[16:38:21] <CaptHindsight> same as granite only granite has been compacted by the earths mantle over millions of years
[16:38:22] <SpeedEvil> including granite
[16:38:33] <SpeedEvil> CaptHindsight: no, it's exaclty thesame
[16:38:40] <SpeedEvil> it's just small bits of granite
[16:38:46] <CaptHindsight> oh yes it is the same
[16:38:49] <jdh> can't find anything. he should be around sometime though.
[16:39:20] <LeelooMinai> CaptHindsight: So you think that thet resin + gravel would be superior to concrete?
[16:39:30] <LeelooMinai> In waht way?
[16:39:39] <LeelooMinai> MOre crack-proof?
[16:39:49] <Nick001-shop> Thanks - I'll wait for him to appear
[16:39:52] <LeelooMinai> Less shrinkage over time?
[16:40:04] <jdh> concrete is nasty stuff
[16:40:10] <pcw_home> Tom_itx: ioport instances= number of connectors on most FPGA cards, and yes 7I90 is programmed like 5I25
[16:40:11] <pcw_home> (both have local flash storage, not dynamically downloaded bitfile from host)
[16:40:15] <SpeedEvil> Concrete is often poorly specified stuff.
[16:40:17] <jdh> it will eat your bearings eventually
[16:40:27] <CaptHindsight> yes, there is a few year long thread on cnczone if you're interested
[16:40:28] <SpeedEvil> It can- done right - be an awesome material
[16:40:32] <LeelooMinai> It will not have contact with bearings
[16:40:37] <jdh> the dust will
[16:40:42] <SpeedEvil> jdh: not if sealed
[16:40:52] <Tom_itx> pcw_home thanks, that's kinda what i thought.. just wanted to verify it
[16:40:57] <CaptHindsight> http://www.cnczone.com/forums/epoxy-granite/30155-epoxy-granite-machine-bases-polymer-concrete-frame.html?s=f36e3e1805d9dcc6ec0643ecb1e8822e
[16:40:58] <LeelooMinai> Hmm... ok, I guess I will try to find that resing for cheap... womewhere
[16:41:35] <Tom_itx> pcw_home do you still list the bit file in the ini or does it just load on startup from eeprom?
[16:41:57] <LeelooMinai> CaptHindsight: I think I read parts of it, but then I thought it's unobtanium for me and too expensive (that epoxy granite)
[16:42:04] <CaptHindsight> http://www.users.on.net/~toby.jarrett/degas.JPG
[16:42:22] <CaptHindsight> http://www.users.on.net/~toby.jarrett/polymer_concrete.JPG
[16:42:46] <SpeedEvil> Isuspect to do it ideally, you want to vacuum mix the aggregates
[16:43:13] <pcw_home> no bitfile specified in ini
[16:43:19] <SpeedEvil> so you can have epoxy with a large 'dust' fraction filling the spaces
[16:44:01] <Tom_itx> pcw_home i assume all the new cards will be that way
[16:44:38] <Tom_itx> what's the latest mesaflash utility?
[16:44:50] <CaptHindsight> "a single kilogram of epoxy, cost $20 or so, will give you 33kg/72lbs of epoxy concrete. In volume that's about 15 liters/4 gallons."
[16:45:04] <pcw_home> Probably mostly (excluding USB3 cards)
[16:45:05] <Tom_itx> has it made it to the zips on your site yet?
[16:45:11] <Tom_itx> probably not
[16:45:34] <LeelooMinai> CaptHindsight: Right, I just need to source it
[16:45:50] <Tom_itx> oh, also if there are multiple ucf files in the directory how to you pick which one you need?
[16:45:51] <pcw_home> The zips are ancient and unfortunately there a bug in the wheezy dist version, I would build from source
[16:45:57] <Tom_itx> from the project file?
[16:46:20] <CaptHindsight> LeelooMinai: kind of off season but check landscape supply for the pebbles/aggregates
[16:46:28] <Tom_itx> well the bit files haven't changed much..
[16:46:48] <pcw_home> yeah the 7I90 is a bit special since there are EPP,SPI,Serial/SSerial versions
[16:46:58] <Tom_itx> right
[16:47:08] <Tom_itx> can you download from the epp port?
[16:47:14] <pcw_home> so there are 4 .ucf files but there are also 4 project files
[16:47:14] <CaptHindsight> used headstones and steam hammer if you like DIY and loud noises
[16:47:25] <Tom_itx> depending on the interface
[16:47:35] <Tom_itx> sserial?
[16:47:39] <Tom_itx> can it be a slave?
[16:47:49] <pcw_home> you can re-flash via the EPP port
[16:47:50] <LeelooMinai> O, right, that reminds my of my problem with squashed limit/home switches yesterday. Somehow the axis was not able to stop fast - how is this deceleration controlled in linuccnc or hostmot or whatever? I thought the steppers could stop the exis almost in-place, no?
[16:47:54] <Tom_itx> ok
[16:48:33] <pcw_home> the sserial option is a 72 bit I/O sserial slave
[16:49:00] <CaptHindsight> LeelooMinai: also depends on how strong your motors are, screw pitch and loads
[16:49:05] <Tom_itx> the rs422 port... can it support sserial slave?
[16:49:15] <Tom_itx> or do you need to use the header io for that
[16:49:33] <LeelooMinai> I have 450oz steppers and not much load there, 5mm per rev ballscrews
[16:49:57] <Tom_itx> i've about got my bit file done for one...
[16:50:00] <LeelooMinai> But could not the stepper have some reverse power applied by the driver to stop fast?
[16:50:02] <Tom_itx> had to leave for a while
[16:50:08] <pcw_home> the RS-422 port is pinned out like a slave so would need a crossover cable to connect to a slave
[16:50:14] <Tom_itx> ok
[16:50:38] <pcw_home> ist mainly for using the 7I90 as a sserial or serial slave
[16:50:43] <LeelooMinai> Hmm, 3.72L of resin $99
[16:50:54] <LeelooMinai> PLus shipping
[16:51:05] <SpeedEvil> you want '100% solids' resin
[16:51:07] <SpeedEvil> not thinned
[16:51:30] <pcw_home> the sserial slave is built on hostmot2 so hostmot2 can grow hostmot2 appendages :-)
[16:51:41] <SpeedEvil> the cost of the resin is related of course to the fill fraction of the composite
[16:52:29] * SpeedEvil ponders a press which can press to ~30% yield strength of granite, then vacuum impregnate
[16:52:48] <CaptHindsight> how about thinned with an active solvent?
[16:52:55] <CaptHindsight> just kidding they all are
[16:52:56] <SpeedEvil> CaptHindsight: you can't get the solvent out
[16:53:00] <LeelooMinai> SpeedEvil: So they would write it's "all solids" type on the can, or do I have to find that out somehow?
[16:53:16] <SpeedEvil> LeelooMinai: I dunno the proper term
[16:53:46] <CaptHindsight> LeelooMinai: just ask me when when you find it, I make resins
[16:54:09] <SpeedEvil> CaptHindsight: neat
[16:54:15] <CaptHindsight> fiberglass boat resins are thinned with styrene
[16:54:30] <LeelooMinai> Are there other types of resins than "fiberglass"?
[16:54:33] <JT-Shop> LeelooMinai, if your design allows the limit switches to squashed you need to change it
[16:54:50] <LeelooMinai> JT-Shop: E, no, I just needed to tune the homing speed
[16:54:59] <CaptHindsight> we refer to the 100% solids thinners as active solvents since they actively take part in polymerization
[16:55:16] <JT-Shop> yes you need to change the design so they can't be damaged
[16:55:34] <LeelooMinai> I will not smash into them on purpose:)
[16:55:43] <jdh> heh
[16:55:49] <_methods> lol
[16:55:52] <JT-Shop> it's a poor design if you can smash them
[16:55:56] <jdh> you smash them though
[16:55:58] <_methods> no one smashes into them on purpose lol
[16:56:03] <JT-Shop> lol
[16:56:07] <jdh> which is why they are made to be mounted so they don't get smashed
[16:56:13] <LeelooMinai> Well, but that was first time and me figuring linuxcnc out
[16:56:15] <JT-Shop> exactly
[16:56:21] <jdh> you are missing the point
[16:56:22] <SpeedEvil> CaptHindsight: yeah - it really depends - what's the actual property of theset resin - and is the 'thinner' free or not
[16:56:48] <LeelooMinai> jdh: No, I just don't think it's worth redesigning them.
[16:57:14] <jdh> because you are missing the point
[16:57:31] <jdh> you can do that later though. have some spares
[16:57:53] <LeelooMinai> jdh: You are missing the point - look at all your sentences:p
[16:59:37] <JT-Shop> I have a shop full of CNC machines and none of them can smash the limit switches...
[17:00:02] <jdh> JT: that's because you tuned your homing accel :)
[17:00:17] <SpeedEvil> http://www.alibaba.com/product-detail/Epoxy-resin-CYD-128-LE-828_1628733961.html
[17:00:57] <CaptHindsight> LeelooMinai: the other problem with using concrete is that it's alkaline and doesn't play well with aluminum
[17:01:18] <LeelooMinai> RIght, that's the other reason I wanted to use steel instead
[17:01:38] <tjtr33> LeelooMinai, re concrete and machine tools http://makezine.com/projects/the-multimachine-150-12-swing-metal-lathemilldrill/
[17:01:39] <CaptHindsight> but I'be used really high strength concrete with acrylics
[17:01:39] <tjtr33> based on some very old good ideas (cast oversize holes, then fill with 'babbit' like material to exact size and allignment ( google Lucien Yeoman)
[17:01:58] <CaptHindsight> but it will cost more than epoxy and granite/stone dust
[17:02:17] <JT-Shop> LeelooMinai, use pykrete
[17:02:22] <SpeedEvil> :)
[17:02:34] <LeelooMinai> Right, will ask Mythbusters to help me
[17:02:39] <SpeedEvil> JT-Shop: at -50C it has somewhat decent properties
[17:02:58] <JT-Shop> very good material actually
[17:03:10] <LeelooMinai> I will heave seasonal table - only for winter
[17:03:10] <SpeedEvil> though I suspect it'd work better with glass fiber reinforcement for a machine
[17:03:13] <CaptHindsight> we put aluminum plugs into granite and them machine threads into them for connections
[17:05:47] <CaptHindsight> http://www.q-sys.eu/images/mechanical%20bearing%206.jpg
[17:05:52] <Tom_itx> pcw_home, can hostmot2 address sserial slaves with functions like pwmgen etc?
[17:06:13] <tjtr33> some machine base ideas http://goo.gl/OUuy44
[17:06:32] <CaptHindsight> http://i1186.photobucket.com/albums/z361/thewho33/IMG_20110917_163359.jpg
[17:06:48] <Nick001-shop> JT_Shop - got any detailed info on g33 to cut a 1/8-28 BTP pipe tread - Internal
[17:07:31] <LeelooMinai> CaptHindsight: But that was by drilling holes in granite, right? Or is it also exposy granite?
[17:08:19] <CaptHindsight> LeelooMinai: that was drilling but if you mold your own you can leave blocks in the material before it sets. then machine later after cure
[17:08:55] <CaptHindsight> either can be drilled and plugs epoxied in later
[17:09:07] <JT-Shop> Nick001-shop, just what is in the manual
[17:09:56] <Tom_itx> wind shifted out of the north and it's getting colder now
[17:09:58] <Tom_itx> rain.
[17:09:58] <LeelooMinai> CaptHindsight: Would this work? http://www.walmart.ca/en/ip/polyester-resin-1993/6000079183847
[17:10:29] <JT-Shop> Nick001-shop, you need to program X to be the correct angle from the start point
[17:10:37] <pcw_home> Tom_itx yes
[17:10:45] <JT-Shop> rain here till morning
[17:11:00] <Tom_itx> pcw_home that has the possibility to get confusing :)
[17:11:13] <Tom_itx> or are they pretty much transparrent?
[17:11:35] <CaptHindsight> LeelooMinai: yes, that's a polyester resin with some fillers, it will come with a small tube of MEKP to harden it
[17:11:53] <Nick001-shop> JT_Shop what changes the x finish point
[17:11:56] <LeelooMinai> CaptHindsight: How is it different from fiberglass resin or epoxy resin?
[17:12:24] <jdh> it smells good too
[17:12:57] <JT-Shop> you need to program a move to the start point then G33 X Z K defines the end points and pitch
[17:13:33] <CaptHindsight> LeelooMinai: that is an unsaturated polyester resin, epoxies just have more and tighter bonds than polyester
[17:13:46] <JT-Shop> beware that the pitch will be off by a millionth of an inch because K follows the drive line described by XZ
[17:14:05] <CaptHindsight> jdh: the odor is mostly from the styrene used to thin it
[17:14:54] <pcw_home> Tom_itx: currently code needs to be written by hand to export the sserial functions Eventually it might get automated
[17:15:35] <CaptHindsight> http://www1.mscdirect.com/MSDS/MSDS00001/00001941-20110811.PDF section 3 has the ingredients
[17:15:36] <Nick001-shop> JT_Shop - I see some info on NPT in the forum but it's confusing me for now. The taper is the same as BPT but its also a 55deg thread. Does g33 put the tool in the tread the same each passwithout the Q as in g76?
[17:16:24] <Nick001-shop> tread/thread
[17:16:25] <JT-Shop> G33 uses the index to start so yea it always starts in the same place
[17:17:46] <JT-Shop> G76 the Q is the start and end angle
[17:17:46] <Nick001-shop> I assume I have to trig out the taper move for the Z distance also?
[17:17:54] <CaptHindsight> LeelooMinai: beware that you only have limited working time, once it it gets too thick to mix there's nothing you can do
[17:17:57] <JT-Shop> yea
[17:18:06] <CaptHindsight> except watch
[17:18:19] <LeelooMinai> CaptHindsight: MInutes?
[17:18:27] <SpeedEvil> LeelooMinai: depends on grade and temperature
[17:18:41] <SpeedEvil> up to an hour is typical for slow setting stuff
[17:19:20] <CaptHindsight> the Bondo polyester is 8 to 12 minutes
[17:19:34] <Nick001-shop> I thought Q was a compound offset to put the cutting load mostly on one side of the tool
[17:19:56] <CaptHindsight> http://bondo.com/bondo-fiberglass-resin-401.html
[17:20:10] <JT-Shop> opps yea
[17:20:22] <LeelooMinai> I will have to make some cast - maybe from melamine like they make for concrete? Or would that bond to the resin?
[17:21:01] <SpeedEvil> somewhat
[17:21:04] <SpeedEvil> wax it and itwont
[17:21:27] <LeelooMinai> THey used olive oil:)
[17:21:33] <LeelooMinai> But that was for concrete
[17:21:39] * JT-Shop heads inside now
[17:21:39] <CaptHindsight> LeelooMinai: yes wax it
[17:22:04] <LeelooMinai> Using what? A candle? :)
[17:22:37] <SpeedEvil> that works
[17:22:42] <LeelooMinai> I have candles and skiwax
[17:22:52] <LeelooMinai> But maybe I need something more specialized
[17:22:57] <CaptHindsight> try what you have on a small area
[17:23:08] <Nick001-shop> Is L0 effective in g33 or there's no call for it? Do I need an undercut at the end of the thread and how do I get x in a distance off the thread at the end?
[17:23:37] <LeelooMinai> Right, I should maybe make micro-table first - like 10 by 10 cm with piece of t-slot embedded
[17:25:10] <CaptHindsight> LeelooMinai: to get the hang of working with it
[17:25:30] <LeelooMinai> Yes, sounds like a plan - what can go wrong:)
[17:26:38] <CaptHindsight> well you made all that other stuff using only a fingernail file, dull screw driver and the jawbone of a goat for tools :)
[17:26:59] <PetefromTn_> Macguymina?!
[17:27:01] <CaptHindsight> I think you're handy enough
[17:27:15] <LeelooMinai> I will make it work, yes
[17:28:19] <CaptHindsight> sometimes I start with a granite surface plate, diamond core drill holes for plugs, epoxy in plugs and the cnc the mounting holes
[17:30:28] <LeelooMinai> I considered that too, but surfacew plates are usually 3-4 inches and they weight 100lbs + with that side
[17:30:37] <LeelooMinai> size*
[17:30:43] <CaptHindsight> yes, too big for what you're doing
[17:31:32] <CaptHindsight> check craiglist for people getting rid of their old granite countertops
[17:32:31] <CaptHindsight> but then you'll need a wet saw to cut to size
[17:33:48] <CaptHindsight> http://www.avsforum.com/photopost/data/2202021/6/6a/6aa028b4_IMG_20130325_122811.jpeg are there any fabricators with remnants like these?
[17:35:51] <tjtr33> hmmm bondo epoxy & fiberglass roll, now THAT'd fix the damn leaky cast iron pipe i got in basement, and its available at ACE hdwr thx!
[17:37:03] <LeelooMinai> Probably the people who make grave stones:)
[17:37:42] <CaptHindsight> tjtr33: they fix large sewer pipes like that
[17:37:45] <tjtr33> gravestones too thick, find countertop mistake
[17:38:11] <tjtr33> well i tried a few of the interweb fixes so far, this sounds better
[17:38:29] <CaptHindsight> prepreg epoxy fiberglass rolls expanded into place and then cured with UV
[17:38:41] <CaptHindsight> cast in place pipe
[17:38:42] <tjtr33> hey a countertop sink cutout sounds good
[17:38:51] <LeelooMinai> I could engrave on the back of my granite table "At least I used it for something useful before I died" and tell them to use it on my grave after I die.
[17:39:12] <tjtr33> there ya go, re-purosed
[17:39:19] <tjtr33> +p
[17:39:56] <pfred1> why wouldn't you use concrete to fix a concrete pipe?
[17:40:03] <CaptHindsight> no rush :)
[17:40:21] <pfred1> we'd put a rock on the lift holes
[17:40:29] <CaptHindsight> pfred1: it's done without any digging http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Swp81X4jSDk
[17:40:37] <pfred1> those big concrete pipes always have a hole in them so you can run a cable through them
[17:41:25] <pfred1> a pretty frigging big hole in fact
[17:42:19] <pfred1> so when we laid those we'd put a stone on the hole before we bured them
[17:42:46] <pfred1> I donno what they do here we have no stones
[17:43:06] <pfred1> but where i used to live stones in the ground was no problem
[17:43:20] <SpeedEvil> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2mrPwXwchSc
[17:43:36] <pfred1> heck I was on one job you could dig all day and not get a bucket of dirt for all of the stones
[17:43:50] <SpeedEvil> For when you need a really large amount of force on your axis
[17:44:03] <pfred1> that job you could walk across it and not touch the ground for all of the blasting wire we used
[17:45:00] <pfred1> every day we'd blow a ram out
[17:45:24] <pfred1> I never saw nothing like that place
[17:45:38] <CaptHindsight> pfred1: where was this?
[17:45:43] <pfred1> one whole part of the job was a solid piece of blue stone
[17:45:48] <pfred1> oh let me find it
[17:46:23] <pfred1> http://www.vanderweil.com/resources/proj_Overlook_Hospital.jpeg
[17:46:34] <pfred1> that place is sitting on one gigantic rock
[17:47:13] <CaptHindsight> and you had to bore under it?
[17:47:24] <pfred1> well dig for the sub floor
[17:47:44] <pfred1> there is a level below the "ground" level
[17:47:55] <pfred1> we blasted it out of the side of the mountain
[17:48:38] <pfred1> it was freaking unreal I was working for an electrician there and he said dig me a trench across the floor
[17:48:49] <CaptHindsight> at least the foundation is sturdy
[17:48:54] <pfred1> I got 3 feet off the wall and i hit a rock, it went all the way across the entire ground
[17:49:11] <pfred1> so I carved a notch in it for him
[17:49:24] <pfred1> one day going like hell I got 11 feet
[17:49:33] <pfred1> that was all I could do
[17:49:50] <pfred1> solid virgin blue stone
[17:50:01] <CaptHindsight> good thing it was an hourly paid job :)
[17:50:02] <pfred1> not so much as a hairline fracture in it
[17:50:22] <tjtr33> this is black cast iron 6" diameter 100yr old house, developed pinholes. Capt's liner is good idea but really expensive despite This Old House reccomendation
[17:50:26] <pfred1> by the end of week I could bust out like these perfect cubes of blue stone
[17:50:38] <pfred1> it was pretty funny
[17:50:52] <pfred1> you get good at anything after a while I guess
[17:51:15] <CaptHindsight> you learn all the ways that don't work first :)
[17:51:34] <pfred1> yeah like that Bosch Brute he gave me to use
[17:51:44] <pfred1> all it could do was make a little puff of dust when I ran it
[17:51:54] <pfred1> whenever i wanted to take a break I'd break it out
[17:52:04] <pfred1> let it puff away
[17:52:41] <CaptHindsight> tjtr33: I'm making little robots that drive down the pipe and cure it with light
[17:52:48] <SpeedEvil> how were you actually doing itthen?
[17:52:50] <SpeedEvil> CaptHindsight: neat
[17:53:18] <SpeedEvil> CaptHindsight: filliment wound '3d' printed pipe seems an obvious next step
[17:53:52] <pfred1> yeah I've seen that
[17:53:55] <pfred1> pipe liners
[17:54:08] <pfred1> I think they had to do it in Paris
[17:54:20] <pfred1> all of their pipes were rotten
[17:54:38] <CaptHindsight> more cost effective than digging
[17:54:53] <pfred1> meh I've dug up all kinds of stuf
[17:55:10] <pfred1> buried more i suppose though
[17:55:20] <tjtr33> CaptHindsight, make 'em look like ET with a lit up finger :)
[17:55:20] <CaptHindsight> or under roads or buildings
[17:55:27] <CaptHindsight> hah
[17:55:36] <pfred1> once i saw a hole they dug in NYC
[17:55:53] <pfred1> to this day I can't get that out of my mind it was like Mario Bros
[17:56:03] <pfred1> all of the pipes it was unreal!
[17:56:31] <pfred1> they were deep way down I donno what they had to dig up but it must have been awfully important to have goen through that kind of trouble
[17:56:49] <pfred1> all hand work digging around all of thosep ipes
[17:57:17] <pfred1> one thing I wish I had a picture of today
[17:57:40] <pfred1> but back then no one had cameras they just carried around
[17:58:12] <pfred1> today I'm plumbing my CNC machine over here
[17:58:29] <pfred1> when I made it I made sure the carraige moved real easy
[17:58:41] <pfred1> unfortunately I didn't pay much mind to things being plumb, or square
[17:59:06] <pfred1> now it still moves really easy but one axis binds up
[17:59:16] <pfred1> go figure?
[18:01:05] <pfred1> so I'm going back and squaring it, and leveling it, and trying to make sure it still moves real easy
[18:01:25] <pfred1> if it still binds up after that I donno
[18:02:52] * pfred1 sings two out of three to himself, two out of three ain't bad...
[18:03:04] <_methods> what kind of machine?
[18:03:09] <pfred1> router
[18:03:16] <pfred1> cartesian I guess
[18:03:19] <pfred1> 3 axis
[18:03:23] <_methods> what'd you use for axes?
[18:03:54] <pfred1> skate bearings and steel angles
[18:04:02] <_methods> ouch
[18:04:09] <pfred1> what's the problem?
[18:04:09] <_methods> GL with that one lol
[18:04:16] <pfred1> yeah GL yourself
[18:05:47] <pfred1> I should add it binds up when I I run 180 IPM
[18:06:25] <pfred1> which with half 10 TPI threaded rod is about all I can expect to do
[18:07:38] <jdh> how does it do at 120IPM?
[18:08:13] <pfred1> hit or miss, it got worse after it bound up
[18:08:22] <pfred1> because that racked it I think
[18:08:34] <pfred1> thing twisted like a diamond
[18:08:54] <pfred1> it is dual drive and one side caught and the other didn't
[18:09:19] <pfred1> after that it was never the same
[18:09:42] <pfred1> that is why I'm tearing into it now
[18:10:08] <pfred1> I am going to have to beef up the ends now that I've seen it in action it is all still early on with it
[18:11:08] <pfred1> this whole racking issue is something I did not anticipate
[18:11:33] <pfred1> I figured it would just stall and sit there
[18:11:41] <pfred1> it has other ideas
[18:18:09] <pfred1> wow I don't have any pictures of my machine sisnce i redid it
[18:18:22] <pfred1> I can't take any now because it is half apart
[18:23:46] <CaptHindsight> tjtr33: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=acmP28tVst0 Sprayed In Place Pipe - Large Diameter Lining
[18:27:34] <cathode> whats the advantage of dual drive over single drive?
[18:28:36] <CaptHindsight> http://www.costa-industrial.com/attachments/Image/IMG_0245.JPG here's an application for field cnc
[18:28:52] <CaptHindsight> mill in place for large pipe flanges
[18:31:30] <CaptHindsight> http://portableflangefacing.com/field-machining_files/seven-foot-bevel.jpg
[18:37:40] <cathode> that looks heavy
[19:14:00] <cathode> well i organized a bunch of cap screws last night. :)
[19:14:03] <cathode> https://www.dropbox.com/s/q2h9k5eoj16tcw2/2014-11-23%2011.56.39.jpg?dl=0
[19:14:14] <cathode> https://www.dropbox.com/s/a822l6y8hppeyvk/2014-11-23%2011.58.10.jpg?dl=0
[19:14:27] <jdh> would you like to come over and organize mine?
[19:15:12] <cathode> only if i get to keep them
[19:15:22] <cathode> :P
[19:15:48] <cathode> i need to hit up junk stores and stuff and find more unopened boxes of fasteners
[19:15:55] <cathode> they're expensive to buy new
[19:16:16] <jdh> I try to just buy boxes of 100 of anything I ever need.
[19:16:30] <roycroft> that's what i do
[19:16:39] <roycroft> well, for large fasteners i'll sometimes get 25 or 50
[19:16:42] <cathode> same. i've been ordering stuff from mcmaster for the project i've got going right now, typically its boxes or bags of 25, 50, or 100
[19:16:44] <jdh> 100 usually costs the same as 10-15
[19:16:56] <cathode> yep
[19:17:16] <roycroft> it's nice to need a fastener for a project and be able to just go out to the shop and get it instead of making a hardware store run
[19:17:37] <roycroft> the time saved totally justifies the inventory investment
[19:17:45] <roycroft> plus, as jdh said, it's a lot cheaper in bulk
[19:17:46] <cathode> i needed four 1/2"-13 nylock nuts for this project. home depot had them for $1.18/ea, i bought a bag of 25 from mcmaster for like $6.50
[19:18:02] <jdh> sure. I probably have 15 different kinds of 10-32s though
[19:18:54] <_methods> yeah hardware is a nightmare
[19:18:56] <cathode> i really wish that torx / torx-plus was more common and affordable
[19:18:59] <roycroft> it's funny - my garage shop has lots of stationary machinery, power tools, hand tools, materials, etc.
[19:19:01] <_methods> expensive nightmare
[19:19:11] <roycroft> but whenever someone comes over they're immediately drawn to my "wall of fasteners"
[19:19:51] <cathode> after i'm done with my current project i'm going to do more work on organizing my shop and that will likely include building a drawer unit to hold fasteners and other small parts
[19:19:52] <_methods> i ran across a small engine repair shop going out of business and scored a ton of hardware for almost nothing
[19:19:56] <cathode> wow nice
[19:19:58] <_methods> 55gal drum of shcs
[19:20:03] <roycroft> i built a wooden cabinet to store my toolboxes in the back of the garage, and above it i have a bunch of those plastic parts drawers srewed to the wall
[19:20:13] <pfred1> I got some hardware but if I'm making something I usually have to buy a box of screws, or soemthing
[19:20:50] <cathode> do you guys ever put oil or anything on expensive hardware to keep it from rusting if it's stored long term?
[19:20:56] <roycroft> http://zymurgasm.com/NewBrewSystem/TwoKeggles/img_0801.jpeg
[19:21:09] <roycroft> you can see the wall of fasteners off to the left in that pic
[19:21:24] <roycroft> i use weigh oil or tool oil on things
[19:21:25] <cathode> nice
[19:21:33] <cathode> and you're using ladder hooks to hold lumber i see
[19:21:36] <cathode> from the ceiling
[19:21:37] <_methods> holy shiny kegs
[19:21:44] <_methods> how long did it take to polish those lol
[19:21:49] <roycroft> holy shitloads of hours on each keg
[19:21:58] <roycroft> i probably have 12 hours into each one of them
[19:22:02] <roycroft> and there are three altogether
[19:22:07] <cathode> heh
[19:22:15] <_methods> sweet jeebus
[19:22:22] <_methods> they look great
[19:22:25] <roycroft> thanks
[19:22:50] <roycroft> http://zymurgasm.com/NewBrewSystem/TemporaryBrewStand/DSC_6153.jpeg
[19:22:52] <_methods> damn that's sexy
[19:22:53] <roycroft> that
[19:22:59] <roycroft> is pretty much the whole brew system
[19:23:08] <roycroft> i don't have the boil kettle plumbing installed yet in that picture
[19:23:14] <_methods> awesome
[19:23:17] <roycroft> but you can see my groovy control panel
[19:23:38] <roycroft> i'm working on the real brew stand this weekend
[19:23:45] <pfred1> I live 5 minutes down the road from one of the best craft brewers in the country so I leave the brewing to them
[19:23:48] <roycroft> well, i'm working on the design
[19:23:54] <roycroft> i hope to start fabricating it next weekend
[19:24:15] <roycroft> i have a half dozen batches on the new system so far, and i'm ready to build a stand for it out of steel
[19:24:16] <pfred1> I had some of their burton baton on my birthday man it was ever so good
[19:24:40] <roycroft> i won't say i'm one of the best in the country, but i can make a decent batch of beer
[19:24:45] <pfred1> some of the best ale I've ever had in my life that is
[19:24:50] <roycroft> i'm not wanting for beer drinking friends :)
[19:24:55] <_methods> that control panel is nuts
[19:25:03] <_methods> you write the manual yet lol
[19:25:05] <roycroft> it took me months to design and build that
[19:25:06] <roycroft> no
[19:25:10] <roycroft> and that's just the prototype
[19:25:19] <roycroft> i'm going to redo the front panel out of solid brass
[19:25:27] <_methods> awesome
[19:25:31] <pfred1> roycroft I've been into craft beers for a lont longer than it has been a fad
[19:25:47] <roycroft> and instead of those drop-in pids i'm going to use arduinos as pid controllers, with nixie tube displays
[19:25:56] <roycroft> and a pi to interface with the arduinos
[19:25:58] <pfred1> I was a beer nerd in the 70s
[19:26:00] <_methods> nice
[19:26:03] <roycroft> phred1: i've been brewing since 1980
[19:26:05] <bnmorgan> any of y'all into hotrods?
[19:26:11] <_methods> steampunk brew controller
[19:26:14] <roycroft> so i go back as far as you do
[19:26:19] <roycroft> exactly, _methods
[19:26:26] <roycroft> the current one is early 20th century industrial
[19:26:32] <pfred1> roycroft I've drank beer from abbys that have been brewing for over 1,000 years
[19:26:36] <roycroft> but it's going to be more steampunk by the time i'm done
[19:26:46] <roycroft> although nixie tubes didn't come about until the early '50s
[19:26:54] <jdh> not often you see an "I'm more of an old fart thanyou are"
[19:27:08] <pfred1> roycroft like established in 970AD
[19:27:17] <_methods> heh i'm purv'n all your pics
[19:27:25] <_methods> http://zymurgasm.com/NewBrewSystem/Test/IMG_0847.jpeg
[19:27:30] <_methods> that one is awesome
[19:28:00] <pfred1> roycroft now dogfish up the road hasn't been at it for that long but they've figured out a few things
[19:28:42] <roycroft> jdh: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xe1a1wHxTyo
[19:28:52] <roycroft> sam is kind of a knob
[19:29:07] <_methods> sweet jesus how much did all those fittings cost you?
[19:29:12] <_methods> those are all sanitary fittings?
[19:29:14] <roycroft> thousands of dollars
[19:29:16] <roycroft> yes, they are
[19:29:22] <_methods> jesus
[19:29:38] <_methods> that's freakin nutz
[19:29:45] <_methods> i tip my hat to you sir
[19:30:19] <roycroft> i've been dreaming about this brew system for years
[19:30:31] <roycroft> and i came into a bunch of cash the first of this year
[19:30:38] <roycroft> so i decided to spend a chunk of it on the brew system
[19:30:40] <pfred1> that's not nuts, this is nuts http://beerlovescompany.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/12/image37.jpg
[19:30:45] <roycroft> probably my only opportunity to do so
[19:30:56] <pfred1> a 20,000 gallon tank made out of palo santo wood
[19:31:27] <jdh> some personal brew guy has a 20k gallon tank?
[19:31:42] <pfred1> nah this is dogfish head
[19:32:07] <roycroft> about 10% of the beers sam puts out are really good
[19:32:14] <roycroft> the rest are pedestrian at best
[19:32:22] <roycroft> but the good ones are really good and really innovative
[19:32:28] <pfred1> roycroft well they're all better here
[19:32:47] <pfred1> I've had it out of state and it ain't as good
[19:32:49] <roycroft> mayhap
[19:33:12] <roycroft> i'm not feeling inspired to head back east to find out
[19:33:13] <pfred1> you'd think with the aocohol content he's brewing his stuff would ship
[19:33:16] <PetefromTn_> I have built several neat brew stands for local brew club guys...
[19:33:36] <PetefromTn_> one was all stainless
[19:33:36] <_methods> those stainless kegs or alum ones?
[19:33:38] <pfred1> well by a happy coincidence I live 5 minutes down the road from the brewery
[19:33:39] <roycroft> we appreciate quality brewing sculptures
[19:33:41] <roycroft> they are ss
[19:33:51] <_methods> are those hard to find now?
[19:33:55] <roycroft> no, not at all
[19:33:58] <_methods> kk
[19:34:08] <roycroft> you can buy them brand new for $150 shipped to anywhere in the country
[19:34:12] <pfred1> so I might as well take advantage right?
[19:34:29] <_methods> man that's straight up fitting porn
[19:34:37] <roycroft> different strokes for different folks is my motto
[19:34:53] <roycroft> if sam's beer gives you a woodie drink it all day long
[19:35:00] <roycroft> i won't think any less of you
[19:35:06] <pfred1> the burton baton is nice
[19:35:16] <roycroft> i went with all 1" fittings
[19:35:23] <pfred1> the palo santo used to be since the keg aged meh
[19:35:23] <roycroft> they're actually cheaper than mixing and matching smaller sizes
[19:35:39] <_methods> man it's freakin awesome
[19:35:47] <_methods> you doing a build log anywhere?
[19:35:53] <pfred1> I have a thing for wood aged beer
[19:35:54] <roycroft> and if i ever want to scale that system up the plumbing should be able to handle at 1bbl system at least
[19:36:28] <roycroft> and the control panel can scale up as well, but not quite as easily
[19:36:35] <roycroft> it's 240vac/50a right now
[19:36:44] <_methods> for all the heaters?
[19:36:45] <pfred1> roycroft I was up at the brewery the day they first cracked open their black and blue
[19:36:48] <roycroft> to scale up to a larger system i'd need more power for the heaters
[19:37:13] <_methods> or go flame
[19:37:14] <pfred1> roycroft they were so excited they sent girls over with pitchers of the stuff for the tour to sample
[19:37:27] <roycroft> but my current batch size is 38L, and that's pretty nice
[19:37:28] <pfred1> I had to put my hand over my glass because i had to drive home
[19:37:34] <roycroft> i don't anticipate needing to go with anything bigger
[19:37:53] <pfred1> they don't get folks so loaded on the tour anymore though
[19:38:00] <roycroft> double my old batch size
[19:38:01] <_methods> you bottle your batches or keg?
[19:38:03] <roycroft> keg
[19:38:07] <_methods> nice
[19:38:08] <roycroft> almost exclusively
[19:38:09] <LeelooMinai> DO you think there are any cheaply available items that would be very flat and could be used to make a bottom of a mold for exposy granite cast?
[19:38:11] <roycroft> special beers are bottled
[19:38:24] <roycroft> melamine?
[19:38:26] <_methods> yeah melamine sheets
[19:38:26] <jdh> glass
[19:38:33] <roycroft> glass is expensive
[19:38:38] <LeelooMinai> I thought about glass, but I am not sure it's that flat
[19:38:43] <roycroft> glass is very flat
[19:38:46] <pfred1> glass is very flat
[19:38:50] <pfred1> jynx!
[19:39:12] <roycroft> about as flat as you'll get for cheap materials
[19:39:13] <LeelooMinai> Are you sure?
[19:39:15] <_methods> melamine is flat enough
[19:39:18] <_methods> for a cast
[19:39:23] <_methods> and cheap
[19:39:34] <pfred1> once we bought a 5 foot tall piece of quarter inch thick plate and the way it bent when we moved it had me somewhat concerned
[19:39:39] <_methods> and solid enough to work with
[19:40:09] <pfred1> that piece of glass weighed 147 pounds
[19:40:10] <_methods> most people use 3/4" melamine for their forms
[19:40:12] <LeelooMinai> Right, I saw people who make countertops from concrete using melamine on youtube
[19:40:17] <roycroft> melamine is also hard to stick stuff to
[19:40:26] <roycroft> which makes it perfect for the work you're doing
[19:40:43] <LeelooMinai> THough I thought melamine is just thin layer on top of chipboard or something like that, no?
[19:40:48] <roycroft> yes
[19:40:53] <pfred1> my Z axis is made out of melamine
[19:41:01] <LeelooMinai> ...
[19:41:05] <roycroft> and you can get the melamine sheet laminated to mdf, which will be very flat
[19:41:27] <pfred1> it is the axis that has given me the least bit of trouble
[19:41:41] <LeelooMinai> pfred1: You made z-axis of wood? :)
[19:41:45] <pfred1> thing worked right right off and has always worked right too
[19:41:59] <pfred1> LeelooMinai yeah sure why not?
[19:42:04] <roycroft> my new brew stand is going to be made of mild steel
[19:42:11] <roycroft> but the kettl is direct fired
[19:42:23] <LeelooMinai> pfred1: I don't know - because moisture etc.? :)
[19:42:32] <roycroft> so i got some 2" square ss tubing to hold the kettle and its burner
[19:42:35] <pfred1> LeelooMinai didn't you hear it is melanine coated?
[19:42:37] <_methods> roycroft: you're not going with ss stand?
[19:42:43] <roycroft> i rounded up some old ceramic insulators today
[19:42:45] <_methods> polished
[19:42:47] <_methods> hehe
[19:42:49] <roycroft> no, _methods
[19:42:55] <_methods> damn
[19:42:55] <roycroft> painted or poweder coated mild steel
[19:43:08] <roycroft> so my plan is to "float" the burner assembly on top of the ceramic insulators
[19:43:16] <_methods> they make some crazy powder coats
[19:43:19] <roycroft> the brew system is a work in progress
[19:43:22] <_methods> i think you can get chrome powder coat
[19:43:33] <roycroft> i can see myself remodeling the stand over time
[19:43:40] <_methods> would go with the polished kegs
[19:43:44] <roycroft> it's a lot cheaper and easier to do that with mild steel
[19:43:58] <_methods> yeah stainless is 'spensive
[19:44:13] <roycroft> and a pain in the butt to machine/cut/grind/weld
[19:44:19] <_methods> indeed
[19:45:22] <pfred1> what is the trouble welding stainless?
[19:45:36] <roycroft> if i could find a high temp clear coat i would like to build the stand out of mild steel, clean up the welds really nicely, apply some brass decorations to etc corners, etc., and shoot the clear coat over it
[19:45:39] <roycroft> that would look really nice
[19:45:42] <_methods> you need special wire or a tig rig
[19:45:46] <roycroft> welding is the easiest of those operations
[19:45:51] <pfred1> oh I have a TIG welder
[19:46:03] <roycroft> i'm not very adept at welding ss though
[19:46:14] <pfred1> I donno it never gives me any problems
[19:46:24] <roycroft> and even if you use gas on both sides of the weld you usually get some oxidation and have to reapassivate it after welding
[19:46:27] <pfred1> cept the rod is expensive
[19:46:38] <roycroft> well i guess i'm not as good as you
[19:46:53] <pfred1> aluminum I think is a bitch to weld
[19:46:54] <roycroft> must be all that good beer from the east coast that makes you a better welder
[19:47:41] <roycroft> fortunately i have a guy who is an amazing welder
[19:47:45] <roycroft> http://zymurgasm.com/NewBrewSystem/HLT/img_0767.jpeg
[19:47:48] <roycroft> he did my kettles
[19:48:11] <roycroft> http://zymurgasm.com/NewBrewSystem/HLT/img_0768.jpeg
[19:48:15] <pfred1> TIG welding is easy if you have a TIG welder
[19:48:19] <roycroft> that's a better pic of an outside weld
[19:48:28] <roycroft> i have a gtaw welder
[19:48:51] <pfred1> parting with 2 grand for a welder sometimes ain't easy though
[19:48:57] <_methods> wow
[19:48:59] <roycroft> http://zymurgasm.com/NewBrewSystem/HLT/img_0773.jpeg
[19:49:00] <_methods> that dude ca weld
[19:49:06] <roycroft> that's one of his welds on the inside
[19:49:11] <roycroft> yes, he's an incredible welder
[19:49:14] <_methods> that's crazy
[19:49:15] <_methods> yeah
[19:49:24] <roycroft> it's not hard for me to justify paying him to do all my ss welding
[19:49:42] <roycroft> i think i paid about $500 for all the welding on the three kettles
[19:49:48] <roycroft> including the tri-clover flanges
[19:49:51] <pfred1> that ain't bad
[19:49:59] <roycroft> no, it was a lot of welding
[19:50:19] <roycroft> http://zymurgasm.com/NewBrewSystem/HLT/img_0771.jpeg
[19:50:19] <_methods> those beads are great
[19:50:30] <roycroft> and some of them were like that - with flanges both inside and outside
[19:50:33] <pfred1> I've seen guys charge $150 for spitting a nut onto a threaded rod
[19:51:31] <_methods> yeah man that dude is good those welds would be a bitch going from those thick fittings to thin keg wall
[19:51:32] <roycroft> btw, polishing the kegs is not just for the bling factor, although i really like them being all shiny like that
[19:51:45] <roycroft> a polished keg has about 1/1000 the surface area of a rough keg
[19:51:54] <roycroft> and thus is much less thermally conductive
[19:52:06] <_methods> no shit
[19:52:31] <roycroft> when you're trying to hold a significant temperature differential between ambient and the contents that makes a difference
[19:52:35] <_methods> i had no idea it was that big of a conductor having a stamped surface
[19:52:49] <_methods> or do they roll the kegs?
[19:52:58] <roycroft> i think they roll them
[19:53:00] <_methods> i always assumed they stamped them out
[19:53:00] <roycroft> but i'm not sure
[19:53:03] <_methods> me either
[19:53:10] <roycroft> they are made in three pieces
[19:53:28] <_methods> what'd you cut the tops out with?
[19:53:31] <_methods> grinder?
[19:53:37] <roycroft> an angle grinder and a jig i made up
[19:54:00] <_methods> nice heheh
[19:54:07] <roycroft> then i used some flap sanders to smooth out the cuts
[19:54:09] <tjtr33> CaptHindsight, thx, but i think the lo tech wrap & goop is for me , also the other were cool http://www.meridianequipment.com/ODM.html
[19:54:29] <roycroft> the kegs were legally obtained, btw
[19:54:37] <roycroft> and they were almost brand new
[19:54:49] <roycroft> if they had been well used i might have doubled the time spent polishing them up
[19:55:24] <_methods> well i just drink beer but i can appreciate the crafting process and the equipment involved
[19:55:36] <_methods> and that is one spiffy set up
[19:55:43] <roycroft> thanks
[19:55:52] <pfred1> I just drink beer myself I leave it to the exerts to brew the stuff
[19:55:53] <roycroft> it's not necessary to have such a nice system to brew great beer
[19:55:56] <pfred1> experts even
[19:55:59] <roycroft> but i'm getting old
[19:56:07] <toastydeath> i can't find anything relating to surface finish affecting solid->fluid heat transfer
[19:56:17] <roycroft> my primary goals were: 1. no lifting heavy stuff, and 2. no plumbing changes on brew day
[19:56:20] <toastydeath> only solid-solid, which is well known
[19:56:28] <roycroft> i've won awards for my beer with my old system
[19:56:45] <roycroft> but it required lifting hot, full kettles of liquid
[19:56:52] <roycroft> and i'm not going to do that any more
[19:57:10] <roycroft> i also don't want to be climbing up ladders while brewing
[19:57:32] <pfred1> I don't want to climb ladders for any reason
[19:57:37] <roycroft> so i made a single tier system, even though it takes up more floor space (something that is very precious)
[19:57:56] <roycroft> it's on wheels so i can move it around when i need space
[19:58:38] <roycroft> anyway, it's time to make dinner and get to the brew stand design
[19:58:49] <pfred1> I need more shop space
[19:58:50] <_methods> right on make sure you take pics hehe
[19:58:52] <roycroft> i need those insulators before i could get very far, but now i have them and they're measured up
[19:59:02] <roycroft> i'm going to take a lot of pictures when the new stand is done
[19:59:06] <roycroft> and organize things better
[19:59:15] <pfred1> another 10 feet and I'd be much better off
[19:59:27] <_methods> tht's what she said
[19:59:27] <roycroft> we all need more shop space
[19:59:40] <pfred1> when i moved in the garage looked so big
[19:59:51] <pfred1> it don't look big anymore!
[19:59:56] <roycroft> i have a welding/grinding shop
[19:59:59] <roycroft> which is too small
[20:00:11] <roycroft> i'm really glad that stuff is all done in a separate building though
[20:00:19] <pfred1> pfft i have a little corner for my welders and i don't evne go over there
[20:00:56] <roycroft> the main shop has my metalworking machinery, woodworking machinery, brew system, benches, laundry, mechanics tools, fasteners, and some material storage
[20:01:04] <roycroft> and it's just a garage
[20:01:08] <roycroft> single car
[20:01:13] <pfred1> that's all I got just a garage
[20:01:25] <roycroft> i don't mind welding in the main shop
[20:01:27] <pfred1> kind of a car and a half it is 20x20
[20:01:28] <roycroft> but i hate grinding in it
[20:01:56] <cathode> i just have my basement for shop space
[20:02:01] <roycroft> but the welding gear is in the other shop, and my 7x12 bandsaw is there as well
[20:02:02] <cathode> it's about 14x16
[20:02:10] <pfred1> last time I was grinding I setup a bag to catch some of the dust
[20:02:15] <pfred1> it worked pretty good
[20:03:09] <pfred1> once I hit a monitor with grinding fly off
[20:03:20] <pfred1> you know monitors have a plastic coating on the screen?
[20:03:29] <pfred1> I found that out when imelted holes in it
[20:03:49] <_methods> hehe
[20:03:55] <pfred1> I'm talking about the old tube jobbies
[20:04:05] <pfred1> it was a nice one though
[20:04:35] <pfred1> it either melted holes in it ot little bits of grit stuck int othe palstic
[20:04:48] <pfred1> you could pick them off but the plastic came with them
[20:05:05] <pfred1> it sucked
[20:05:19] <cathode> it's probably a coating bonded to the glass that would keep shards of glass contained if the screen broke?
[20:05:21] <pfred1> since then I've been careful to grind away from stuff
[20:05:46] <cathode> cause old school CRT monitors had a phosphor coating on the inside, but nothing on the outside
[20:06:13] <cathode> unless it was a touchscreen monitor, then it would have had a plastic conductive film on the exterior
[20:06:15] <pfred1> another ting I found out recently is those grinding discs work a lot better if I hit them with a carbarundum stick
[20:06:24] <pfred1> I mean it is amazing
[20:06:43] <pfred1> you know a grading stick for a grinding wheel?
[20:10:21] <tjtr33> carborundum dressing stick, Q&D wheel dressing http://www.carborundumindustrial.com/detailimg.aspx?id=164028
[20:11:01] <tjtr33> opens up the pores ( kinda)
[20:11:14] <pfred1> I think some fo the grit sticks to the wheels
[20:11:35] <pfred1> but yeah it does clear them of metal too
[20:11:54] <pfred1> sometimes I'll be grinding and pushing and all I'm doing is heating the work up
[20:12:24] <pfred1> a while back I switched to a 7/9 grinder I still use a 4.5 sometimes
[20:12:44] <pfred1> but 4.5s are nothing compared to a 7/9
[20:13:14] <tjtr33> after using the stick, lightly run a metal bar over the surface, with a of of white paper behind the wheel, you can tell when the wheel is clean of the grit
[20:13:36] <tjtr33> we used to use the 6" scale in out pockets, and replaced them often :)
[20:13:50] <tjtr33> our
[20:19:28] <PetefromTn_> Damn little debbie for making those Christmas Wreath Cookies!!
[20:20:18] <_methods> hehe
[20:20:24] <_methods> it's the cosmic brownies that get me lol
[20:20:30] <PetefromTn_> LOL
[20:20:42] <PetefromTn_> My kids love those damn christmas tree brownies..
[20:20:51] <PetefromTn_> I gotta buy a couple boxes a week
[20:21:17] <PetefromTn_> but after tasting the wreaths I am afraid I am doomed to empty the local grocery store of them...
[20:22:15] <_methods> hahahah
[20:22:38] <_methods> i might have to try out these wreathes
[20:22:52] <PetefromTn_> We cleaned up the house today and broke out the Christmas decorations....IT HAS BEGUN!!
[20:23:22] <_methods> ah we do it after thanksgiving
[20:23:51] <Valen> my rule is 1st of dec for xmas decorations
[20:24:50] <_methods> heheh i don't get to make rules i just have to follow them
[20:25:02] <PetefromTn_> well I used to be like that
[20:25:08] <PetefromTn_> then I realized
[20:25:14] <PetefromTn_> first I love Christmas
[20:25:26] <PetefromTn_> second it is a LOT of work to get it all put up
[20:25:37] <PetefromTn_> so why not do it earlier so you can enjoy it longer
[20:25:43] <PetefromTn_> plus the kids love it
[20:25:52] <PetefromTn_> so why the heck not right...
[20:25:55] <cathode> i abhor christmas. my roommates and i just leave halloween decorations up
[20:26:07] <PetefromTn_> I pity you heh
[20:26:14] <_methods> i like thanksgiving
[20:26:20] <_methods> no worries about gifts
[20:26:23] <_methods> just eat till you pass out
[20:26:37] <PetefromTn_> yeah we just went shopping for the big feast this week
[20:26:53] <PetefromTn_> I always try to convince my wife to make something OTHER than a turkey
[20:26:58] <pfred1> I don't decorate or go in for holidays much
[20:27:00] <PetefromTn_> but I always lose that arguement
[20:27:07] <pfred1> I say put the holiday back into holiday!
[20:27:12] <_methods> i did a prime rib one year
[20:27:16] <PetefromTn_> but occasionally I get to choose a side dish
[20:27:19] <_methods> then everyone wanted me to go back to turkey
[20:27:24] <pfred1> screw doing extra work
[20:27:29] <PetefromTn_> Damn Prime rib is awesome..
[20:27:43] <_methods> hell yeah
[20:28:06] <_methods> the boss dropped off a big green egg at my house a couple weeks ago so this year i'm cookin the turkey in that
[20:28:09] <PetefromTn_> I have done a big ham and sometimes a big seafood feast for christmas but I cannot talk the wife out of the big bird for turkey day.
[20:28:18] <PetefromTn_> Oh those are nice
[20:28:24] <PetefromTn_> I have been considering one
[20:28:34] <PetefromTn_> are you going to smoke it in there?
[20:28:43] <renesis> what do you mean green egg like a weber meatball grill?
[20:28:55] <PetefromTn_> no a big green egg grill
[20:28:59] <PetefromTn_> google is your friend
[20:29:03] <_methods> it's a big green egg lol they been around since the 70's
[20:29:12] <PetefromTn_> they have?
[20:29:16] <_methods> yeah
[20:29:18] <renesis> why google when i can ask you and get awesome responses like that
[20:29:19] <PetefromTn_> I thought it was just a couple years
[20:29:19] <_methods> i think '68
[20:29:33] <_methods> they got the patent in '68
[20:29:38] <PetefromTn_> it is a ceramic insulated round green grill that kicks ass.
[20:29:49] <PetefromTn_> they are kinda expensive tho
[20:29:55] <PetefromTn_> and the cooking area is not that big
[20:29:55] <_methods> yeah i never wanted to spend the money on one cause i thought it might suck
[20:29:57] <renesis> how ceramic
[20:30:00] <PetefromTn_> but they work amazing
[20:30:00] <_methods> but it's freakin awesome
[20:30:04] <renesis> like just porcelain glazed?
[20:30:16] <_methods> even plain old pork chops are freakin awesome
[20:30:19] <_methods> meat loaf
[20:30:22] <_methods> whatever
[20:30:30] <renesis> so its a modded weber meatball?
[20:30:30] <PetefromTn_> I used to cook on a big round weber kettle grill
[20:30:46] <_methods> wife and daughter make me cooke a chicken every week now lol
[20:30:46] <renesis> why is big green egg better
[20:30:49] <PetefromTn_> and we decided to get rid of it to buy a bigass stainless gas grill
[20:30:54] <renesis> oh
[20:31:01] <renesis> i dont agree with that
[20:31:04] <PetefromTn_> now my wife hates the damn thing and wants the weber back LOL
[20:31:10] <tjtr33> high temps, you can really make pizza in 'em, like 700deg +
[20:31:15] <_methods> yeah
[20:31:17] <renesis> yeah those things get kinda ghetto after a year or too
[20:31:24] <renesis> its juts a stove, kinda
[20:31:30] <PetefromTn_> The biggest problem is it is TOO big
[20:31:31] <_methods> man i put it on 250 to do a roast
[20:31:32] <renesis> outside stove
[20:31:35] <_methods> and it set there all day long
[20:31:37] <_methods> 8 hours
[20:31:43] <_methods> right on 250
[20:31:52] <renesis> petefromtn_: yeah! i like how you can just drag the webers around
[20:31:54] <PetefromTn_> it takes forever for it to really get hot even with all the burners on high
[20:32:07] <renesis> not a big deal to take to someone place in a car
[20:32:15] <PetefromTn_> I am gonna clean it up a bit and sell it and get either another weber kettle or an egg
[20:32:26] <_methods> man the egg is worth it
[20:32:28] <_methods> i think
[20:32:34] <PetefromTn_> Weber actually makes a copy of the egg I saw at HD
[20:32:38] <_methods> if i had bought it i would be happy
[20:32:48] <_methods> but even better i got it as a gift lol
[20:33:00] <PetefromTn_> They are like $750.00 just for the basic one.
[20:33:09] <renesis> WAT
[20:33:09] <_methods> yeah i got the large one
[20:33:14] <PetefromTn_> yeah that is an awesome gift
[20:33:18] <_methods> hell yeah
[20:33:23] <_methods> i came home for lunch
[20:33:27] <_methods> and look out in my back yard
[20:33:31] <_methods> i was like wtf????
[20:33:39] <_methods> how did that get there
[20:33:43] <_methods> it's a reverse robbery
[20:33:53] <renesis> http://www.amazon.com/Weber-741001-Silver-One-Touch-2-Inch/dp/B00004RALU/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1416795222&sr=8-2&keywords=weber+grill
[20:34:00] <renesis> i guess this is still the best value in bbq
[20:34:03] <renesis> wtf $750
[20:34:12] <PetefromTn_> http://www.montanaeggfest.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/07/David-1-No-Background.jpg
[20:34:44] <_methods> hell i had a plain old weber i only use charcoal and used that thing for years
[20:34:58] <_methods> i had a gas grill for a few years but it rotted to pieces
[20:35:07] <_methods> paid like $300 for it too
[20:35:11] <renesis> the hardware always goes bad on those
[20:35:15] <_methods> yeah
[20:35:21] <_methods> so i was like damn i'll just stick with a weber
[20:35:24] <renesis> and brushed stainless looks shit when its not new
[20:35:31] <_methods> F all that money on a grill that will just rot out
[20:35:38] <PetefromTn_> I really enjoyed the weber we had it forever
[20:35:44] <renesis> http://www.isitdownrightnow.com/biggreenegg.com.html
[20:35:47] <PetefromTn_> you can even smoke in them pretty good
[20:35:54] <renesis> petefromtn_: ^ google did not help
[20:35:57] <jdh> http://www.wilmingtongrill.com/
[20:35:58] <_methods> yeah man it smokes great
[20:36:01] <jdh> those look good and hold up
[20:36:06] <jdh> but, it's still just a gas grill
[20:36:27] <renesis> thats looks like restaurant shit
[20:37:56] <renesis> i would maybe buy that
[20:37:58] <_methods> http://www.grillery.com/customers.html
[20:38:02] <_methods> those are pimp grills
[20:38:23] <renesis> those are prob $2000
[20:38:29] <tjtr33> look at komodos ( whatthe big green egg copied )
[20:38:33] <PetefromTn_> I saw a guy build something cool recently... http://makezine.com/2010/07/26/little-blue-egg-flower-pot-grill/
[20:38:59] <renesis> ha neat
[20:39:21] <_methods> the kamados are cheaper too
[20:39:24] <_methods> and the same thing
[20:39:57] <PetefromTn_> http://www.homedepot.com/p/Vision-Grills-Kamado-Pro-Ceramic-Charcoal-Grill-S-4C1D1/202926563
[20:40:21] <_methods> it's basically just a kiln
[20:40:31] <_methods> not like anyone is copying anyone
[20:40:48] <_methods> they been around for as long as pottery lol
[20:41:35] <PetefromTn_> there's a video in that home depot link for the grill
[20:43:36] <tjtr33> wow prices have really changed, the real japanese models were wicked expensive http://www.alibaba.com/product-detail/2014-New-21inch-black-Japanese-ceramic_1592103305.html
[20:44:19] <tjtr33> almost enuf to melt alum
[20:44:43] <_methods> hehhe what's shippin on that lol
[20:44:44] <renesis> so theyre deeper thanweber grills?
[20:44:48] <_methods> shit ways a ton
[20:44:56] <_methods> weighs even lol
[20:45:20] <renesis> oh the ceramic looks much thicker on that one
[20:45:20] <PetefromTn_> not really
[20:45:41] <renesis> so heat is less direct and more stable
[20:45:42] <PetefromTn_> they are lined with thick ceramic so there is not as much interior room as it looks from the outisde
[20:45:44] <renesis> shrug
[20:46:07] <PetefromTn_> they basically keep all the heat inside so they are much more efficient
[20:46:21] <renesis> i dont think it is worth 7-10x the cost
[20:46:25] <PetefromTn_> those flower pot DIY ones actually use a heating element to make it a smoker
[20:46:32] <PetefromTn_> for what
[20:47:01] <renesis> one of those vs a weber grill
[20:47:33] <PetefromTn_> dunno
[20:47:43] <PetefromTn_> webers are not exactly cheap tho
[20:47:44] <renesis> everything posted except jdh's link looks like itll rust out and turn ghetto in two years max
[20:47:49] <PetefromTn_> at least the big ones
[20:48:13] <renesis> all the hardware and thin steel and casters and valve mechanisms
[20:48:21] <tjtr33> ceramic dont rust ( kamado )
[20:48:22] <renesis> the meatballs?
[20:48:41] <renesis> i think the most expensive one is like ~$200
[20:49:02] <renesis> i dont like the weber stainless gas stuff, its prob a bit better than normal but all that shit looks ghettoexcept when brand new
[20:49:25] <renesis> tjtr33: thats why i like the webers theyre porcelain coated
[20:49:39] <PetefromTn_> agreed
[20:49:39] <renesis> so like, as long as you dont smash the shit completely it wont rust
[20:50:02] <renesis> and even the little webers are okay for 2-3 people
[20:50:05] <PetefromTn_> it was better too when they moved from the wood handles to the plastic looking ones dunno the materials
[20:50:07] <renesis> i think those are like $50
[20:50:30] <PetefromTn_> I had the largest kettle and it cooked awesome...
[20:50:36] <renesis> yeah the rivets would rust and the wood would dry out
[20:50:39] <PetefromTn_> got real hot and stayed that way pretty good
[20:50:56] <renesis> but if you clean up old ones, usually the kettle and top are okay
[20:51:00] <PetefromTn_> like I said I bought this nice big gas grill for my wife because she wanted one
[20:51:03] <renesis> the vent rusts
[20:51:09] <renesis> and the tray if ashes left in it
[20:51:15] <PetefromTn_> and she now wants the Weber back hehe
[20:51:23] <renesis> theyre super easy
[20:51:28] <PetefromTn_> you can buy replacement everything for them at HD
[20:51:44] <renesis> and you can use them without all the parts except the legs
[20:51:49] <PetefromTn_> it's the mustang GT of the grilling world LOL
[20:51:56] <renesis> the grills and top and kettle usually last
[20:52:04] <renesis> i dont like mustangs!
[20:52:07] <tjtr33> weber is good design. used to pick up 2nds in Palatine IL at plant
[20:52:07] <renesis> but yeah kinda
[20:52:16] <PetefromTn_> hell you don't like anything
[20:52:28] <PetefromTn_> :P
[20:52:43] <renesis> look ford has the mustang, and the ford GT which almost didnt exist even in los angeles
[20:52:49] <renesis> theres a gap, and mustang isnt really sport
[20:52:58] <renesis> it is now, but it took a long time
[20:53:03] <_methods> hell yeah i still love my weber
[20:53:13] <_methods> but the damn egg is so awesome
[20:53:17] <PetefromTn_> give it to me you got the green egg now HEHE
[20:53:30] <_methods> i just use my weber now when people come over and i need more grill space
[20:53:37] <PetefromTn_> I need to clean up the grill and sell it.
[20:53:57] <PetefromTn_> its a nice one but it is way too big for our needs and the wife hates it.
[20:54:39] <renesis> http://www.amazon.com/Weber-10020-Smokey-Silver-Charcoal/dp/B00004RALL/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1416796457&sr=8-2&keywords=smokey+joe
[20:55:02] <renesis> heheh i want one of those for camping and parks
[20:55:42] <renesis> $30, and you can do two steaks or 3-4 burgers on it
[20:55:59] <renesis> and it will last until it gets stolen or you leave it somewhere
[20:58:37] <_methods> jesus walking dead finally got exciting 40 min in
[20:58:55] <PetefromTn_> I actually made the legs on our weber large kettle grill removable and we took it camping all the time with us.
[20:59:29] <PetefromTn_> http://knoxville.craigslist.org/for/4709923244.html hmm
[20:59:35] <_methods> the vent on the bottom of my weber is all rusted out
[20:59:37] <_methods> i need to fix that
[21:01:04] <PetefromTn_> woohoo just got a shipping confirmation for my LED 5050 GRB kit.
[21:01:19] <_methods> yeah man i got a 5m strip coming
[21:01:19] <PetefromTn_> Got the engraving programmed for my little project
[21:01:21] <_methods> one day
[21:01:22] <_methods> lol
[21:01:42] <PetefromTn_> should be getting the acrylic sheet sometime this week.
[21:01:46] <_methods> gonna do the tree up with them
[21:01:56] <PetefromTn_> the LED's are supposed to be here by the 29th
[21:01:58] <_methods> have the xmas tree controlled from android and web app lol
[21:02:03] <PetefromTn_> he
[21:02:05] <PetefromTn_> hehe
[21:02:18] <pfred1> I've barbequed for christmas
[21:02:20] <PetefromTn_> they are bright as hell from what I have seen
[21:02:21] <_methods> that way the wife can make it whatever color she wants
[21:02:28] <_methods> oh yeah they're bright
[21:02:35] <_methods> you get a power supply too?
[21:02:39] <PetefromTn_> did you get the 300 count ones?
[21:02:46] <_methods> nah i got 60/m
[21:03:00] <_methods> yeah so 300 i guess lol
[21:03:08] <_methods> 5m @ 60/m
[21:03:10] <PetefromTn_> I got a 5Meter strip of 300 so yeah
[21:03:26] <_methods> yeah the 144's are crazy
[21:03:31] <_methods> 144/m
[21:06:17] <_methods> you get one of those kits with the remote control and power supply?
[21:06:22] <PetefromTn_> I just got what I saw some youtube videos that do edge lit acrylic signs using hopefully it will work
[21:06:38] <_methods> yeah it works i made one
[21:06:46] <PetefromTn_> yeah 120vac power supply and 44 button remote
[21:06:58] <PetefromTn_> was like $25.00
[21:07:09] <_methods> oh wow that's not bad at all
[21:07:10] <PetefromTn_> got any pics?
[21:07:14] <_methods> that must not be the ws2812
[21:07:20] <_methods> yeah one sec diggin up the video lol
[21:07:30] <_methods> it's an inside joke
[21:07:37] <PetefromTn_> ?
[21:07:46] <_methods> this other guy i know it's like our hello world
[21:07:50] <_methods> you'll see one sec
[21:08:32] <_methods> https://www.dropbox.com/s/csumk1t2tghbcio/2014-03-25%2021.46.23.mp4?dl=0
[21:08:43] <_methods> that's an equalizer i made with them
[21:09:10] <_methods> https://www.dropbox.com/s/go6krw2s0luwjc8/2014-05-01%2000.09.32.mp4?dl=0
[21:09:15] <_methods> and the hellow world lol
[21:10:18] <PetefromTn_> jeez man all that work for a joke LOL
[21:10:21] <_methods> whenever he makes a new project he always drops in a lee is gay lol
[21:10:30] <PetefromTn_> looks nice tho
[21:10:38] <_methods> yeah it's pretty cool
[21:10:42] <PetefromTn_> what thickness and type of plastic did you use
[21:10:54] <_methods> i think i had some 1/4" acrylic
[21:11:00] <_methods> i'd have to go measure
[21:11:23] <PetefromTn_> I bought some 3/8 acrylic extruded sheet from onlinemetals
[21:11:30] <_methods> yeah that will work fine
[21:11:37] <PetefromTn_> looking forward to trying it out.
[21:11:47] <PetefromTn_> wanna see my design?
[21:11:56] <_methods> sure
[21:12:06] <_methods> i need to make desk ones for everyoe at work one day
[21:12:46] <_methods> put arduino mini's in the base
[21:12:54] <_methods> run it all off usb
[21:13:54] <PetefromTn_> http://i.imgur.com/icTlzo4.jpg
[21:14:23] <_methods> oh yeah nice
[21:14:30] <_methods> that will look good
[21:14:33] <PetefromTn_> yeah it is for my wife
[21:14:43] <PetefromTn_> she is a HUGE Alice in Chains Fan...
[21:14:50] <_methods> are you going to wrap leds on all 4 sides?
[21:14:59] <PetefromTn_> ?
[21:15:15] <_methods> some people make a frame all the way around
[21:15:15] <PetefromTn_> what do you mean all four sides?
[21:15:22] <_methods> and run the lights on all 4 sides
[21:15:28] <PetefromTn_> oh no it is going to be just like the sign you made
[21:15:46] <PetefromTn_> acrylic sticking up out of a wood base with lights in it.
[21:15:55] <_methods> yeah
[21:16:02] <_methods> that's all i did with mie
[21:16:04] <_methods> mine
[21:16:08] <PetefromTn_> I actually made one for my Oldest daughter
[21:16:12] <_methods> but i see some people make like a picture frame
[21:16:14] <_methods> and do all 4 sides
[21:16:20] <PetefromTn_> still have it here but i need to make the base and get the LED's
[21:16:21] <_methods> which looks cool for bigger signs
[21:17:08] <PetefromTn_> I basically engraved the Batman logo with her name in the middle of it in relief
[21:17:13] <PetefromTn_> in an oval
[21:17:15] <_methods> ahhh cool
[21:17:21] <PetefromTn_> yeah it was pretty sweet
[21:17:32] <PetefromTn_> I need to finish it and get the base and lights mad
[21:17:35] <PetefromTn_> made
[21:19:25] <jdh> it's all about the base.
[21:19:37] <PetefromTn_> how so
[21:20:00] <PetefromTn_> oh nevermind LOL
[21:21:46] <_methods> hahahha
[21:22:13] <PetefromTn_> I got a couple more rail orders this weekend YAY!
[21:22:43] <PetefromTn_> I also was contacted by an old friend who MAY have something he wants machined in quantity if we can agree on price.
[21:22:45] <_methods> congrats
[21:23:13] <PetefromTn_> well it has been slow as shit this past week or two and I was starting to thing there would not be a break in the lull :)
[21:23:45] <_methods> are you machining for yourself full time now?
[21:24:06] <PetefromTn_> pretty much have been for awhile now..
[21:24:13] <_methods> ahh nice
[21:24:19] <PetefromTn_> it is when there is work
[21:24:24] <_methods> yeah
[21:24:32] <_methods> only bad thing about workin for yourself
[21:24:36] <PetefromTn_> when there is nothing it starts to feel like a huge freakin' mistake
[21:24:42] <_methods> yeah
[21:24:49] <_methods> try and keep the overhead low
[21:25:10] <PetefromTn_> I am trying to get something going with local companies so far with limited success.
[21:25:18] <PetefromTn_> made a couple prototypes
[21:25:20] <_methods> it's hard to get the foot in the door
[21:25:26] <PetefromTn_> and there is promise for some long term work
[21:25:40] <PetefromTn_> but so far it is kinda in limbo with most of them.
[21:26:14] <_methods> well you got a mill and lathe so you should be capable of most anything
[21:26:20] <PetefromTn_> Just bought this new CNC lathe project and right now I have no cash to put into the new control components
[21:26:31] <PetefromTn_> so actually right now I am lathe-less
[21:26:37] <_methods> ahhh
[21:26:38] <_methods> ouch
[21:26:39] <PetefromTn_> which BITES
[21:27:03] <PetefromTn_> I may just take out a small loan to buy the stuff I need to get it going sooner
[21:27:14] <PetefromTn_> and pay it back with my tax return or something
[21:27:22] <_methods> yeah that sounds like a good idea
[21:27:27] <PetefromTn_> I MISS having a lathe here
[21:27:28] <_methods> do you have lathe work backed up?
[21:27:34] <PetefromTn_> no not really
[21:27:38] <_methods> oh
[21:27:42] <PetefromTn_> did not really have any lathe work
[21:27:42] <_methods> well hell wait then
[21:27:52] <PetefromTn_> never took any on
[21:28:00] <PetefromTn_> unless it was for a CNC mill need
[21:28:09] <PetefromTn_> because I only had the manual lathe
[21:28:12] <Tom_itx> mill probably pays more
[21:28:30] <_methods> yeah unless it's c or y axis work
[21:28:48] <PetefromTn_> I am really glad I sold the manual to get the new CNC lathe but without a manual lathe I feel like I am missing a leg or something.
[21:29:02] <Tom_itx> well you are :D
[21:29:06] <jdh> s/eg/athe/
[21:29:39] <PetefromTn_> The new CNC lathe is needing some work and I am refinishing the panels sheetmetal right now.
[21:29:58] <Valen> PetefromTn_: get some spinny handles and hook it up for manual drive
[21:30:11] <PetefromTn_> I have been so busy installing my new AC unit I have not had much time to mess with it.
[21:30:17] <PetefromTn_> Valen Not a bad idea LOL
[21:30:36] <PetefromTn_> but you would have to stand in the back of the machine to turn the X handle LOL
[21:30:38] <Valen> I mean you can run it through the linuxcnc
[21:30:54] <Valen> like when you drive the mill around with an xbox controller
[21:31:15] <PetefromTn_> It is missing some parts and the entire control is gutted.
[21:31:37] <PetefromTn_> so it needs basically about two weeks worth of work and about $2k in parts to be running again.
[21:31:41] <Valen> so put EMC on it and add some of these ;-> http://www.homanndesigns.com/store/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=15&products_id=30&zenid=movauafnmtb4uo86a79dt3acc4
[21:32:08] <PetefromTn_> Oh it WILL be EMC and mesa
[21:32:38] <PetefromTn_> cannot wait to get it running.
[21:32:53] <Valen> shiny
[21:32:54] <PetefromTn_> Worst case scenario I have to wait until tax time to be able to afford the new parts.
[21:33:00] <Valen> :-<
[21:33:02] <PetefromTn_> which would suck but it is what it is
[21:33:17] <PetefromTn_> At least I have a nice CNC lathe here to play with
[21:33:24] <PetefromTn_> better than NO cnc lathe I guess
[21:33:35] <Valen> spend your time painting it up and polishing it
[21:33:49] <PetefromTn_> yeah washy sloshy and shiney buffy
[21:33:51] <Valen> doesn't matter how it works, if it looks sexy people will like it lol
[21:34:08] <PetefromTn_> that is unfortunately generally the case....
[21:36:06] <PetefromTn_> wish I did not have to sell the manual lathe but with things the way they are lately there is just no way I would have been able to afford to buy the CNC lathe otherwise.
[21:36:29] <PetefromTn_> and I really need a nice CNC lathe for the shop so I took a chance.
[21:36:35] <PetefromTn_> hopefully I won't regret it.
[21:36:41] <PetefromTn_> Altho what is humorous
[21:37:14] <PetefromTn_> I have been approached lately for a bunch of those custom wheels I machine and I NEED the CNC lathe to finish them after most of the part is machined in the VMC.
[21:39:00] <tjtr33> can any of the vmc parts be moved temporarily to the lathe? ( buy separate parts later when you get some scratch )
[21:40:36] <PetefromTn_> I don't understand
[21:40:46] <PetefromTn_> the lathe is not operational yet
[21:40:49] <PetefromTn_> just the VMC
[21:41:16] <PetefromTn_> I COULD possibly machine them entirely on the VMC but there is a TON of 3d milling that would be required since they are so elaborately shaped.
[21:41:18] <tjtr33> move motors & drives from vmc to lathe
[21:41:25] <PetefromTn_> oh that is not possible
[21:41:47] <PetefromTn_> they would not even fit and this is a full blown machining center
[21:42:11] <PetefromTn_> I just need to get the cash together and order the parts
[21:42:28] <PetefromTn_> It will be a simple retrofit really
[21:42:53] <PetefromTn_> it is ALREADY a CNC lathe and everything is there just need to add the new motors and drives and PC and mesa cards and wire it all up.
[21:46:33] <jdh> will it work as-is?
[21:47:18] <PetefromTn_> how could it work missing a control and motors?
[21:48:46] <jdh> didn't know what all it was missing.
[21:49:35] <jdh> how do you know it 'works' with no motor/control?
[21:50:02] <PetefromTn_> I don't understand the question..
[21:50:30] <jdh> nevermind.
[21:55:01] <LeelooMinai> I watched some video of milling an aluminum part and it seemed that the guy did not like "plunging" endmill into the piece, but instead drilled holes first - why is that?
[21:55:15] <Tom_itx> PetefromTn_, is it mechanically sound other than the controls and drives?
[21:55:17] <cradek> it works much better
[21:55:33] <Tom_itx> with all that gone seems it would be hard to determine what else was good or bad
[21:55:40] <cradek> plunging at an angle is a fine compromise if your part lets you do it
[21:56:17] <cradek> also, although they're rarer now, there are non-centercutting end mills, especially roughers
[21:56:20] <Tom_itx> harder on tooling but works
[21:56:20] <LeelooMinai> Is it because the endmill is designed to cut with sides or something like that?
[21:56:22] <renesis> leeloominai: not all endmills are center cutting
[21:56:24] <PetefromTn_> the machine is in great shape overall
[21:56:34] <cradek> yeah sides are always better
[21:56:48] <renesis> and center cutting endmills may not plunge as well when worn even when the flutes still cut well
[21:56:50] <Tom_itx> centercutting endmills will plunge straight down but i wouldn't use them for a drill
[21:57:26] <LeelooMinai> Is "roughing" just some kind of course cutting?
[21:57:31] <PetefromTn_> drilling out large deep pockets is generally considered faster material removal than pocketing it out
[21:57:39] <renesis> leeloominai: yes
[21:57:41] <Tom_itx> LeelooMinai, they're made different
[21:57:52] <Tom_itx> designed to remove lots of material
[21:57:57] <cradek> they have teeth
[21:57:57] <renesis> roughing endmills are, but you can rough with anything
[21:58:07] <cradek> they work *great*
[21:58:13] <LeelooMinai> So faster removal, but less smooth cuts?
[21:58:16] <renesis> nomnomnom
[21:58:19] <cradek> yes they leave a very rough finish (stripes)
[21:58:27] <LeelooMinai> I see, ok
[21:58:28] <Tom_itx> the flutes aren't flat
[21:58:33] <Tom_itx> they have ripples in them
[21:58:38] <renesis> they have flutes in the flutes so you can chicp cut you cut chips
[21:58:48] <tjtr33> like 'swedish' endmills
[21:58:55] <renesis> *so you can chip cut your cut chips
[21:59:34] <renesis> http://www.use-enco.com/ProductImages/0188798-23.jpg
[21:59:39] <Tom_itx> http://www.use-enco.com/ProductImages/0188798-23.jpg
[21:59:42] <renesis> it goes nomnomnom
[21:59:43] <Tom_itx> haha
[21:59:46] <Tom_itx> you googled too
[21:59:49] <renesis> ya
[21:59:52] <LeelooMinai> The guy uses something called strutcam - does linuxcnc have this functionality or it has to be done outside of it?
[22:00:02] <cradek> linuxcnc is not cam software
[22:00:05] <PetefromTn_> sprutcam
[22:00:21] <jdh> tormach stuff?
[22:00:38] <renesis> linux cnc just turns rs274 into driver signals
[22:00:49] <jdh> one of our groups got a tormach mill a month or two ago. Nobody has any idea what to do with it.
[22:00:51] <LeelooMinai> I guess cam software just prepares g-codes and then one can load them into linuxcnc?
[22:01:00] <cradek> yes
[22:01:11] <LeelooMinai> Can it be done with free software?
[22:01:20] <Tom_itx> LeelooMinai, your router doesn't run with Gcode/
[22:01:21] <Tom_itx> ?
[22:01:48] <Tom_itx> or is this a new build for you?
[22:01:59] <renesis> leeloominai: you mean besides text editors?
[22:02:01] <LeelooMinai> Tom_itx: Hm? This is completely new machine.
[22:02:13] <Tom_itx> oh ok
[22:02:20] <cradek> yeah, I hand-write virtually all my gcode
[22:02:23] <cradek> it's not ideal
[22:02:26] <renesis> rly?
[22:02:31] <renesis> hardcore
[22:02:35] <LeelooMinai> renesis: lol, I don't think many people can visualise g-code and the final result:)
[22:02:53] <LeelooMinai> At least for complex parts, not a hole
[22:02:57] <renesis> i guess you are prob familiar with the variable based code for linuxcnc, heh
[22:03:21] <tjtr33> i'd say you _have_ to be able to draw what the gcode say will happen or you're in trouble
[22:03:28] <renesis> leeloominai: anything 2.5d is not so hard
[22:03:56] <renesis> really complex shit, you just find something that outputs coordinates of vector graphics and use a text editor with macro to turn into gcode
[22:04:45] <LeelooMinai> Well, I mean you heve to take lots of variables into account - like size of the mill for example. It would be strange not using some software to help with that, no?
[22:04:50] <renesis> 3d stuff, its not complicated its just long, but you should be able to look at lines of code and 'see' what is happening
[22:05:04] <renesis> i used autocad and the offset tool
[22:05:10] <renesis> for lots of stuff
[22:05:30] <LeelooMinai> RIght, like yesterday I saw some guy using 5-axis machine to machine a turbine in aluminum - good luck with doing that by hand:)
[22:06:04] <renesis> if youre doing that, you should be able to afford a $5k software package
[22:06:16] <renesis> you can get very functional for less
[22:06:22] <LeelooMinai> It was a small one, but still.
[22:06:23] <PetefromTn_> http://www.cnccookbook.com/CCFreeCNCSoftware.html
[22:06:31] <renesis> and there are lots of sub $1000 solutions
[22:06:42] <renesis> if you dont have that much to spend, you shouldnt expect anything to be easy
[22:06:53] <tjtr33> is that the one you buy 'gas' for ( it wont run after a while and you need to get 'gas' )
[22:07:03] <renesis> no thats cnc sim
[22:07:11] <renesis> i was so pissed when the gas station shut down
[22:07:14] <LeelooMinai> Ok, but what would linuxcnc people use - I assume they would want something free, open-source for that - is there anything?
[22:07:16] <tjtr33> haha
[22:07:33] <PetefromTn_> I wish there was a GOOD free open source cam
[22:07:35] <renesis> prob everything
[22:07:38] <PetefromTn_> but there is not a lot
[22:07:51] <renesis> i helped with gcam and it kind of sucked
[22:07:53] <PetefromTn_> I use CamBam which is pretty cheap and Sheetcam
[22:07:57] <renesis> and its gone now
[22:08:07] <renesis> cambam seems cool
[22:08:07] <LeelooMinai> I see... so it looks bleak
[22:08:16] <PetefromTn_> Sheetcam is great 2.5D
[22:08:16] <tjtr33> for 3d visulaization of cuts... no , nothing like comercial quality, but the stuff from Heeks and AWallin is a good start
[22:08:26] <PetefromTn_> CamBam is too but adds 3d
[22:08:44] <PetefromTn_> and even some lathe functions
[22:08:52] <PetefromTn_> for the money it is pretty damn capable.
[22:08:55] <renesis> hsm express is a free plguin for solidworks
[22:09:07] <renesis> yeah cambam seems very fair
[22:09:28] <renesis> anyway, if you want to steal something, just get mastercam
[22:09:31] <PetefromTn_> I would love to know there was anything that is more capable for less money..
[22:09:39] <tjtr33> bleak? how many axis machine are you building?
[22:09:41] <renesis> if youre not making tons of money consider it job training
[22:10:04] <LeelooMinai> tjtr33: I meant bleak in terms of good open-source cam software
[22:10:28] <PetefromTn_> Freecad guys are working on a CAM module that should be good but is a long way from being usable.
[22:10:41] <renesis> leeloominai: what are you cutting?
[22:10:51] <LeelooMinai> Nothing, just researching
[22:11:11] <renesis> if youre mostly doing simple 2.5d, i dont think you should use much cam anyway at first
[22:11:19] <Tom_itx> pcw_home you around?
[22:11:19] <LeelooMinai> Saw this guy using that software there and as wondering
[22:11:28] <renesis> especially if youve never done gcode
[22:11:55] <renesis> its connect the dots, its not very hard and when you start using CAM, youll be able to debug and edit the output
[22:12:14] <PetefromTn_> SprutCam is apparently pretty decent but it is over a grand and that is bundled with a Tormach mill purchase. dunno what it costs standalone
[22:12:32] <renesis> want a tormach
[22:12:34] <LeelooMinai> Right, I would look into details too, but I would not like to do everything by hand as it's error-prone
[22:13:08] <renesis> linuxcnc has toolpath output
[22:13:30] <PetefromTn_> Didn't LinuxCNC have a simple cam plugin or something at one point?
[22:13:56] <LeelooMinai> Is that mastercam separate cam software or something bigger?
[22:13:58] <Tom_itx> http://www.sprutcamamerica.com/store/index.php?app=ecom&ns=catshow&ref=software
[22:13:58] <renesis> there was an autocad script a lot of people used, maybe that?
[22:14:13] <renesis> leeloominai: seperate cam, you can get a solidworks plugin, i like it
[22:14:31] <LeelooMinai> I see a lot of it on piratebay
[22:14:42] <Tom_itx> you gotta register with them to get a price
[22:14:50] <renesis> prob get a virus but thats just makes you pc normal
[22:14:52] <PetefromTn_> Mastercam Rocks... Wish I could afford it.
[22:14:54] <tjtr33> maybe some low cost linux solution? http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?Cam varicad and gCad3D might be useful.
[22:15:37] <Tom_itx> PetefromTn_ get more jobs lined up :)
[22:15:44] <PetefromTn_> http://freecadamusements.blogspot.com/2012/10/cam-module.html
[22:15:54] <Tom_itx> i took a chance when i got mine
[22:15:56] <tjtr33> i dont recall realtime cut simulation in either ( like stepping a gcode program with a virtual cutter thru a virtual block )
[22:16:00] <PetefromTn_> Tom_itx That is MUCH harder than it sounds...
[22:16:06] <Tom_itx> oh i know
[22:16:09] <LeelooMinai> RIght, well, I am just a hobbyist - I won't buy $1k software to mill aluminum enclosure for small pcb:)
[22:16:14] <skunkworks> dxf2gcode I think would act like an input filter.. (2.5d..) people have used heekcad/cam also
[22:16:26] <Tom_itx> LeelooMinai, we're talking about 6-10k
[22:16:31] <renesis> leeloominai: use eagle pcbgcode.ulp
[22:16:42] <renesis> or code by hand
[22:16:50] <PetefromTn_> LeelooMinai I think you would be impressed with CamBam once you start playing with it and it is like $200.00 or something like that.
[22:16:51] <LeelooMinai> I guess initially I will just do it by hand
[22:16:56] <renesis> panels and enclosures can be simple 2.5d, you should learn how to code that
[22:16:56] <Tom_itx> if all you need is a box milled out you can code that by hand
[22:17:09] <renesis> that shit will prob be under 100 lines
[22:17:11] <skunkworks> or you can code it by hand...
[22:17:18] <skunkworks> ;)
[22:17:19] <Tom_itx> JT-Shop has some nice routines to do simple shapes
[22:17:21] <LeelooMinai> PetefromTn_: I don't think I spend $200 for software in my whole life and that includes OS:)
[22:17:28] <tjtr33> and look at all you can do with JT's gcode generators
[22:17:30] <Tom_itx> you should look at that too
[22:17:46] <renesis> leeloominai: then just steal mastercam and solidworks
[22:17:51] <LeelooMinai> Well, actually, maybe I did - 20 years ago or so I bought Borland compilers
[22:18:06] <PetefromTn_> well until someone comes up with a CAM software that is freeware open source there is little out there other than pirated stuff.
[22:18:32] <renesis> if youre not making the big bucks, using their software is basically training and advertising
[22:18:34] <PetefromTn_> I have high hopes for FreecadCam
[22:18:36] <LeelooMinai> Well, there is linuxcnc so someone could start a side-kick to it just for cam work
[22:18:42] <renesis> if you couldnt afford it anyway, it doesnt hurt them
[22:18:48] <renesis> and it keeps you from using other products
[22:18:56] <renesis> and it keeps them in industry standard position
[22:19:07] <renesis> if you are making the big bucks, youre kind of being an asshole
[22:19:31] <roycroft> i won't make a huge issue of this, but that's a bullshit rationalization
[22:19:33] <roycroft> theft is theft
[22:19:40] <PetefromTn_> I think once I get enought work going on here I will try to buy a seat of solidworks and get the HSMworks free version.
[22:19:44] <roycroft> and that's all i'll say about it
[22:19:48] <renesis> theft means taking something from someone, no one doesnt have anything
[22:19:50] <renesis> you copied
[22:19:58] <Tom_itx> LeelooMinai, you could look these over too http://gnipsel.com/files/g-code-generator/
[22:19:58] <renesis> they didnt lose a sale either
[22:20:02] <Tom_itx> just get the latest one
[22:20:28] <LeelooMinai> I bet some big guys even like their stuff being pirated
[22:20:30] <renesis> roycroft: piracy is basically how adobe established CS
[22:21:05] <LeelooMinai> Because they know that it makes their software popular and people who pirate it would never buy it anyways
[22:21:22] <renesis> they cant
[22:21:43] <renesis> but it means when you get a job and ask what do you need, you say their software
[22:21:50] <renesis> and thats how they make money
[22:22:24] <Tom_itx> sounds like a drunk trying to rationalize with the officer that pulled him over
[22:22:25] <LeelooMinai> RIght, that's also why they provide free packages for schools, etc.
[22:22:37] <Tom_itx> my take on it
[22:22:40] <renesis> ive stolen eagle, and since then, two companies have bought it for me to use, and ive bought personal licenses
[22:23:03] <renesis> tom_itx: officers give me my weed back like all the time
[22:23:29] <LeelooMinai> Well, nothing is black and white - I don't like extreme positions either way
[22:23:44] <renesis> tom_itx: piracy by private individuals drives corporate sales
[22:24:24] <renesis> if the piracy didnt happem, the individuals prob wouldn't request the software because expensive and no experience with it
[22:24:37] <renesis> EDA is same shit
[22:24:40] <roycroft> i'm smart enough to not get weed taken from mey by cops in the first place :P
[22:24:54] <renesis> you never get pulled over?
[22:25:08] <Tom_itx> well there are students that learn a software and go out into the workforce wanting it
[22:25:14] <PetefromTn_> LeelooMinai Check out heekscadcam it is free or real cheap and supposed to be decent.
[22:25:16] <renesis> i usually didnt stash before medical laws, i def dont now
[22:25:27] <renesis> tom_itx: yeah man lots of those students pirate
[22:25:34] <renesis> using student licenses to make money is piracy
[22:25:39] <Tom_itx> i'm sure alot don't too
[22:25:44] <tjtr33> LeelooMinai, and the newest versions does have some cut simulation
[22:25:53] <renesis> and lots will steal full versions to do same at home as full licenses at school
[22:26:06] <Tom_itx> we've discussed it before. i'm done
[22:26:10] <renesis> k
[22:26:11] * roycroft enjoys watching can-o-worms explode
[22:26:11] <LeelooMinai> A, ok, will look at it
[22:27:19] <tjtr33> do you speak Russian? the rusnuxcnc club has a lot of gcode generators too
[22:28:01] <tjtr33> https://www.cnc-club.ru/forum/index.php
[22:28:07] <LeelooMinai> Not really. I had Russian in school, but it was compulsory at that time and everyone hated it and only pretended to learn:)
[22:28:29] <LeelooMinai> Also, kind of useless...
[22:29:02] <LeelooMinai> I would rather learn Chinese - at least I would know those cryptic descriptions on aliexpress:p
[22:31:22] <renesis> the chinese dont even always understand chinese
[22:31:40] <LeelooMinai> They have simplified version even
[22:32:03] <CaptHindsight> lots of regional dialects
[22:32:09] <tjtr33> Nick Drobchenko's "Features" http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rGB0xImNmZ4 and the new 'Axis' like front end from CoolTool
[22:32:14] <LeelooMinai> Hmm, is the air they use when milling just normal compressed air or it's chilled somehow?
[22:32:32] <tjtr33> venturi drops the temperature
[22:33:02] <LeelooMinai> A, so chilled without any special devices?
[22:33:03] <tjtr33> purely mechanical
[22:33:46] <LeelooMinai> I wonder how much it's dropped and if having some additional cooling would make sense
[22:33:57] <tjtr33> put air in mouth squeeze real hard, open mouth, see 'smoke' , its colder when the pressure drops
[22:34:03] <CaptHindsight> looks like hackers took down craigslist
[22:34:49] <PetefromTn_> craigslist works for me
[22:34:53] <LeelooMinai> So those would just go to normal compressor like for air tools?
[22:35:45] <CaptHindsight> huh, it took me to some other site earlier and now it doesn't even load
[22:36:14] <LeelooMinai> They are kind of noisy buggers - I would need probably to run the whole hose from the basement to my room
[22:36:24] <tjtr33> http://www.nex-flow.com/tool_cooling.htm
[22:36:45] <tjtr33> http://thescipub.com/PDF/ajassp.2009.251.262.pdf
[22:36:54] <LeelooMinai> o, 75 deg lower - that's a lot
[22:37:27] <tjtr33> never believe a salesman, their job is to lie and get your money, but yes it _is_cooler
[22:38:28] <tjtr33> Hilsch Vortex Tube thats the principle
[22:39:44] <tjtr33> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vortex_tube
[22:40:03] <LeelooMinai> Only one maker makes those?
[22:40:40] <tjtr33> no, lotsa people, diff names, they wont mention the base principle tho, too damn simple :)
[22:40:57] <zeeshan> http://i.imgur.com/d067G8F.png
[22:41:00] <zeeshan> pretty graphs!
[22:41:33] <tjtr33> you runnin matlab on linux?
[22:41:39] <zeeshan> no
[22:41:50] <zeeshan> but it can run on it :P
[22:42:20] <LeelooMinai> MOdelling ant dwellings?
[22:42:26] <zeeshan> no
[22:42:32] <tjtr33> maybe try Octave
[22:42:34] <zeeshan> that so far shows the deflection of a plate
[22:42:36] <XXCoder> isnt matlab rather expensive>?
[22:42:42] <zeeshan> and moments on it
[22:42:50] <zeeshan> moment resultants
[22:42:56] <zeeshan> XXCoder: everything is cheap for students :)
[22:42:58] <tjtr33> oh this is the 'damn bell curve'
[22:43:06] <XXCoder> cool. how m,uch was it
[22:43:16] <zeeshan> its a simply supported plate
[22:43:18] <zeeshan> XXCoder: free
[22:43:23] <XXCoder> ang
[22:43:26] <XXCoder> dang
[22:44:14] <LeelooMinai> There's also a lot of python scientific libraries/environments
[22:44:36] <zeeshan> its just another environment
[22:44:38] <zeeshan> nothing special
[22:44:45] <zeeshan> what you do with it makes it special :P
[22:45:03] <LeelooMinai> RIght, like humps in color:)
[22:45:17] <zeeshan> you dont see it?
[22:45:22] <zeeshan> thats a plate
[22:45:24] <zeeshan> thats bending
[22:45:28] <LeelooMinai> I do - I am not color blind:)
[22:45:31] <tjtr33> uh, you found out it bends more in the middle and less at the ends
[22:45:39] <tjtr33> not so special,. sorry
[22:45:46] <tjtr33> :)
[22:45:48] <zeeshan> :)
[22:45:55] <zeeshan> its not in the middle
[22:45:58] <zeeshan> its slightly offset
[22:46:05] <zeeshan> cause of the triangular load distribution
[22:46:27] <zeeshan> dam gate
[22:46:32] <zeeshan> is basically what this is
[22:53:49] <toastydeath> zeeshan, what's your opinion of python or octave/scilab if you have one
[22:53:56] <toastydeath> for numeric methods
[22:54:47] <zeeshan> i havent used either ones =/
[22:54:51] <toastydeath> o
[22:54:53] <zeeshan> python i have
[22:55:09] <zeeshan> i really think all those things can work depending on what you wanna do
[22:55:21] <toastydeath> oh, for sure - i was just curious
[22:55:21] <zeeshan> if youre just plotting 3d graphs , solving derivatives
[22:55:27] <zeeshan> you can use any of em
[22:55:40] <zeeshan> in my numerical methods class we used both python and matlab
[22:55:51] <zeeshan> its just really nice that you can open up your array
[22:55:55] <zeeshan> for debugging purposes
[22:56:03] <zeeshan> with python you gotta spit it out
[22:56:09] <zeeshan> gets messy fast
[22:56:12] <LeelooMinai> The good thing about those python based is that most of them are free
[22:56:13] <toastydeath> roger
[22:56:24] <toastydeath> i usually have some other input method for python
[22:56:29] <toastydeath> have excel open, for instance
[22:56:32] <toastydeath> and read that in
[22:56:59] <toastydeath> but i don't do numeric methods on python because i'm not in a field that does that
[22:57:17] <LeelooMinai> There's also this Mathematica-like python that works in browsers, can do plotting, etc. Forgot the name, but I used it once for some EE-related project
[22:58:14] <toastydeath> yep, the ipython notebook
[22:58:16] <zeeshan> its kinda like cad
[22:58:26] <LeelooMinai> O, right, ipython
[22:58:28] <zeeshan> almost all can be used to build a 3d model
[22:58:34] <toastydeath> i use ipython qtconsole
[22:58:38] <toastydeath> rather than the notebook
[22:58:43] <zeeshan> but some features in solidworks are just "nice to have"
[22:59:32] <zeeshan> one thing ive noticed about matlab is it is a resource hog..
[22:59:47] <zeeshan> fresh start
[22:59:54] <zeeshan> it consumes 400mb of memory
[23:00:01] <zeeshan> if youre solving a 5000x5000 matrix
[23:00:04] <zeeshan> it'll almost go to 2gigs
[23:00:05] <zeeshan> lol
[23:00:17] <toastydeath> lol
[23:00:19] <toastydeath> that's amazing
[23:02:29] <zeeshan> http://turbozee84.imgur.com/all/
[23:02:30] <zeeshan> er
[23:02:33] <zeeshan> http://i.imgur.com/2lJzFXO.png
[23:02:36] <zeeshan> right now im having the problem
[23:02:42] <zeeshan> that the max function is dumb
[23:02:49] <zeeshan> it literally only finds the max value
[23:03:00] <zeeshan> i have two values that are like .0000000000000000000005 in difference
[23:03:07] <zeeshan> so it only picks one of them
[23:03:13] <zeeshan> there is no tolerance to locate more than one max
[23:07:20] <Aero-Tec> getting errors
[23:07:46] <Aero-Tec> have run the code several times and no errors
[23:08:09] <Aero-Tec> then unrecognized t
[23:08:23] <Aero-Tec> then cut 2 parts
[23:08:36] <Aero-Tec> then unrecognized e
[23:08:41] <Aero-Tec> go fig
[23:09:13] <Aero-Tec> any ideas?
[23:10:23] <Aero-Tec> I have some remed out stuff
[23:10:42] <Aero-Tec> using both (****) and ;*****
[23:11:28] <PetefromTn_> I'd try to help you but I have no freakin' idea what you are talking about...OL
[23:11:29] <PetefromTn_> LOL
[23:12:06] <tjtr33> i'm guessing its gcode, so pastebin the gcode, and report the entire error message
[23:12:31] <PetefromTn_> I figured that when he said he cut 2 parts
[23:12:51] <tjtr33> (more guesses, bad media storing the program )
[23:13:01] <Aero-Tec> it crashes at same spot
[23:13:14] <PetefromTn_> define crash
[23:13:20] <Aero-Tec> start of parting
[23:13:36] <Aero-Tec> errors and program ends
[23:13:48] <Aero-Tec> or stops I should say
[23:14:40] <Aero-Tec> http://pastebin.com/pteA8A9y
[23:14:50] <Aero-Tec> section of code where it happens
[23:16:47] <Aero-Tec> larger section of code
[23:16:50] <Aero-Tec> http://pastebin.com/PYCPjAtx
[23:17:10] <tjtr33> should you be using _ instead of - ?
[23:17:12] <Aero-Tec> the tool move to pre tool change spot
[23:17:19] <Aero-Tec> and then errors
[23:17:54] <tjtr33> http://linuxcnc.org/docs/html/gcode/overview.html#sub:Named-Parameters
[23:18:11] <Aero-Tec> - is easier and has not made any problems before
[23:18:22] <tjtr33> ok
[23:19:18] <Aero-Tec> when doing global ones it needs the leading _
[23:20:01] <Aero-Tec> wondering if a good old restart may do the trick
[23:20:12] <Aero-Tec> been running for a few days
[23:20:24] <Aero-Tec> maybe a week with out any shut down
[23:22:22] <Aero-Tec> could I setup and desktop sharing over my networks?
[23:22:43] <Aero-Tec> would be nice to see the desktop of the shop unit while in office
[23:23:15] <Aero-Tec> I will have to run and look at error message and then run back and type it
[23:23:26] <Aero-Tec> would be nice to do it all from here
[23:23:48] <tjtr33> http://sourceforge.net/p/emc/mailman/emc-developers/thread/201312020814.20688.gheskett@wdtv.com/
[23:24:45] <tjtr33> ^^^ gene fixed his problemd by editing the - to _
[23:24:54] <tjtr33> "The fix was to remove any and all dash's that were not intended to be
[23:24:54] <tjtr33> subtraction signs, and put in underscores, not only in the subroutines
[23:24:54] <tjtr33> actual and internal names, but in ALL the "#<named>" variables referenced
[23:24:54] <tjtr33> too, all the way back to the MDI_COMMAND = entries in the ini file."
[23:27:09] <Aero-Tec> cool
[23:27:18] <Aero-Tec> so works some times and not others?
[23:27:41] <Aero-Tec> have made lots of stuff and it was never a problem till now
[23:28:00] <tjtr33> why things done the wrong way, why they sometimes work, is not useful to investigate, its hard enuf to do things the right way :)
[23:28:21] <Aero-Tec> did runs of over 80 and worked great
[23:28:22] <tjtr33> for me anyway
[23:28:36] <Aero-Tec> lol
[23:28:42] <Aero-Tec> you have a point
[23:28:57] <Aero-Tec> will try your fix
[23:28:59] <Aero-Tec> thanks
[23:29:00] <tjtr33> try it and see
[23:29:06] <tjtr33> np
[23:29:09] <Aero-Tec> will do
[23:35:45] <tjtr33> thought about it ... fred-ethel will be seen as fred and ethel, and usually ethel has 0 value, and the program 'works', but sometimes ethel gets some value ( i dunno why ) and messes up the result of fred MINUS ethel
[23:43:22] <unfy> O_o
[23:46:48] <Aero-Tec> even when it is a variable name?
[23:47:27] <roycroft> i'm not sure fred can exist minus ethel
[23:47:39] <roycroft> he'd drive ricky crazy and ricky would murder him
[23:47:51] <Aero-Tec> it is all inside of the #<>
[23:48:01] <Aero-Tec> lol
[23:48:25] <Aero-Tec> guess ricks not gay
[23:48:44] <roycroft> and fred+ethel would be unpredictable because of the random lucy factor
[23:48:54] <roycroft> this is a losing proposition no matter how you craft it
[23:48:56] <Aero-Tec> lol
[23:49:37] <Aero-Tec> yup lucy can be a real problem
[23:50:13] <Aero-Tec> gets ethel pissed at rick, and lucy
[23:50:41] <Aero-Tec> got nice for rick to sleep with ethel so he runs to lucy
[23:50:48] <Aero-Tec> lucy wins
[23:51:35] <Aero-Tec> looks like there can be a win in there if you look hard enough
[23:51:40] <Aero-Tec> lol
[23:52:10] <Aero-Tec> would bet lucy is lots younger ethel
[23:52:30] <Aero-Tec> rick is supper happy
[23:53:19] <Aero-Tec> after he pays off ethel of course in settlement
[23:54:30] <Aero-Tec> changes made
[23:54:35] <Aero-Tec> will run code
[23:59:57] <Aero-Tec> one cool thing is I get a loading error with new code that I did not with old code