#linuxcnc | Logs for 2014-11-21

[02:11:59] <Deejay> moin
[06:06:30] <gambakufu> /join3
[09:16:17] <archivist_herron> move 42
[09:16:44] <_methods> can you reply to a mailing list thread when you have it in digest mode?
[09:17:00] <_methods> I was going to tell that guy he needs to add some tooling option stops to his program
[09:17:28] <_methods> didn't want to start a whole new thread to reply
[09:18:58] <archivist_herron> digest replies mess it up
[09:19:27] <_methods> ahh
[09:19:29] <_methods> oh well
[09:19:43] <_methods> does linuxcnc have a block delete function?
[09:19:47] <_methods> like on fanuc?
[09:20:33] <_methods> he could just have some tooling change moves in there that are block delete
[09:20:55] <_methods> i see it in the linuxcnc manual
[09:21:10] <_methods> alt-m-/ toggles block delete
[09:22:00] <_methods> http://linuxcnc.org/docs/html/gcode/overview.html#_block_delete_a_id_sub_block_delete_a
[09:25:29] <_methods> bah i just did a thread with RE: on it
[09:54:46] <archivist_herron> there is no block if they are doing gcode like me in an ocode loop but it would be trivial to skip n teeth from a restart
[10:42:25] <bnmorgan> anybody have suggested sources for cat40 holders and stuff in that nature?
[10:43:21] <_methods> mscdirect.com, shars.com, travers tool, enco
[10:43:49] <_methods> ebay
[10:52:40] <_methods> http://blogs-images.forbes.com/duncanrolph/files/2014/10/Ebola-graphic.jpg
[10:52:42] <cradek> bnmorgan: absolutely maritool
[10:53:04] <cradek> bnmorgan: everything I've bought from them is fairly priced and excellent
[10:53:23] <PetefromTn_> I got all of mine from Ebay
[10:53:39] <PetefromTn_> altho I would have gotten them from Maritool if I had the cash
[10:54:01] <PetefromTn_> they sell excellent tooling and toolholders from my experience with them for very reasonable prices
[10:54:04] <_methods> $96.50 for cat40 er32 isn't too bad
[10:54:04] <cradek> I have a lot of ebay stuff too
[10:54:32] <cradek> no matter what I got from ebay, I always used new retention knobs (from maritool)
[10:54:49] <_methods> wow thanks for the maritool
[10:54:57] <_methods> never bought from them before i might have to hit them up
[10:55:08] <bnmorgan> yeah, i think i am going with new tooling and holders. just trying to decide where to get them from
[10:55:23] <bnmorgan> someone suggested usshoptools but i don't want to go with the first one i see.
[10:56:06] <JT-Shop> I use Maritool
[10:56:08] <_methods> at work i usually go to techniks first
[10:56:42] <PetefromTn_> I am trying to remember the ebay seller I got mine from. They are pretty decent...
[10:57:11] <bnmorgan> if you find, pm it to me so i don't loose it while afk
[10:57:14] <bnmorgan> please
[10:57:26] <_methods> http://www.techniksusa.com/tooling_pkgs/12pack_C40.htm
[10:57:31] <cradek> if doing it over again, I would buy all new knobs, new ER chucks and collets, and new small/precision weldon chucks (like the 1/8 and 1/4 sizes), bigger weldon I'd get ebay crap and keep the good ones, and I'd buy albrecht chucks on ebay until I got a couple good ones
[10:57:38] <_methods> it's a 12 pack lol
[10:58:14] <cradek> and some ebay ball bearing jacobs chucks (keep buying until you get a couple good ones)
[10:58:22] <bnmorgan> have a 20 slot atc to fill.
[10:58:23] <cradek> I frequently put taps in the jacobs
[10:58:49] <_methods> tap collets baby
[10:58:50] <PetefromTn_> I bought all new holders and I was lucky enough to get a large box of brand new pull studs from the guy I bought my machine from
[10:59:26] <bnmorgan> and won't be doing much/any jobshopping, so dediated tooling for each job
[10:59:27] <cradek> _methods: yeah I have a few ERs in weird sizes for taps I use a lot
[10:59:35] <_methods> yeah
[10:59:46] <_methods> 1/2-13, 3/8, 1/4
[10:59:50] <_methods> fo sho
[11:00:12] <PetefromTn_> I THINK it was CME tools I bought my holders from.
[11:00:15] <bnmorgan> interstate vices worthwhile or skip to kurt?
[11:00:16] <cradek> 4-40, 1/4-20 seem to be my favorites
[11:00:36] <PetefromTn_> KURT vises are excellent and worth every penny.
[11:00:41] <_methods> well if you're going to sink money into something vises are the spot
[11:01:13] <PetefromTn_> I got a D688 and trying to get another one here at some point.
[11:01:16] <PetefromTn_> quality piece
[11:01:23] <_methods> i just got a 4" cnc vise from cme tools and it's pretty shoddy
[11:01:40] <PetefromTn_> I bought a shars CNC vise and it was a piece of shit.
[11:01:44] <_methods> it's going to work but they didn't deburr anything on it
[11:01:55] <bnmorgan> i'm looking at a double vices on each side of the trunnion
[11:02:01] <cradek> yeah I had to spend some real time fixing my shars vise too
[11:02:03] <PetefromTn_> It is still out there in the shop I use it for drilling and tapping stuff by hand on my bench.
[11:02:05] <_methods> high production?
[11:02:06] <cradek> but it was cheap
[11:02:20] <_methods> or are you tooling up for low production?
[11:02:28] <bnmorgan> med/high
[11:02:39] <_methods> get chick vises then
[11:02:47] <PetefromTn_> I considered grinding it flat and square but honestly the Kurt works so well for the money...
[11:02:51] <_methods> the quick change jaws are the shiznit
[11:03:07] <_methods> makes job changeovers minutes
[11:03:25] <PetefromTn_> medium or high production I would think would be using dedicated fixturing
[11:04:26] <bnmorgan> well, idk what is considered high. want to average one lower per 20 min, with 4 in the machine at a time, 2 on each side of the 4th axis trunnion
[11:04:57] <PetefromTn_> oh AR parts huh
[11:05:13] <bnmorgan> and suppressors
[11:05:20] <bnmorgan> but not working on that side yet.
[11:06:22] <PetefromTn_> really it depends on how many you are intending to make hundreds or thousands etc.etc. dedicated fixturing for anything that you intend to make large quantities of is worth every penny and hour spent making them.
[11:06:49] <bnmorgan> yeah. am looking into it just haven't really figured out which bite of the elephant to eat first.
[11:07:25] <PetefromTn_> is this on a linuxCNC retrofit machine?
[11:07:43] <bnmorgan> this part isnt
[11:08:17] <bnmorgan> final id marking is where i am doing lcnc
[11:08:34] <bnmorgan> current headache is avf3
[11:08:39] <bnmorgan> a vf3
[11:09:04] <PetefromTn_> nothing wrong with a VF3
[11:09:22] <bnmorgan> well, it's old enough to be a pita for me to learn
[11:09:24] <PetefromTn_> I have run a bunch of them locally in shops here in tennessee.
[11:09:33] <bnmorgan> where in tn
[11:09:43] <PetefromTn_> Maryville, Knoxville
[11:09:47] <renesis> holy shit maritool is cheap
[11:09:53] <renesis> cradek: ty
[11:10:17] <bnmorgan> ahh. was hoping closer. am near tupelo ms
[11:10:37] <PetefromTn_> I have a Cincinatti machine here
[11:10:45] <PetefromTn_> trying to get work for it LOL
[11:10:57] <PetefromTn_> just bought a used CNC lathe trying to get it retrofit
[11:12:04] <PetefromTn_> I know a few folks who are making AR parts, maybe I should look into it but as I understand it there are already so many lower receivers being made you would really have to make tons of them to be competitive on price.
[11:13:25] <bnmorgan> yeah, or do something heavily off the farm to stand out.....all while conforming to the fit standards >.<
[11:13:33] <bnmorgan> afk a while
[11:13:48] <bnmorgan> anywhere from a couple hours to a week
[11:14:36] <PetefromTn_> I make picatinny rails and stuff for precision airguns scope risers etc....
[11:15:13] <PetefromTn_> but there is just not enough demand for them currently.
[11:20:24] <Rab> This seems like a good price for a complete router axis with name-brand components...what are the chances it's clapped out beyond usability? I see rust on the rails, at least. http://www.ebay.com/itm/251285467412
[11:21:12] <Rab> 12" travel isn't a big deal, I want to build a small engraver/router for Al.
[11:21:25] <LeelooMinai> I think for this price I bought whole ballscrew and rail set for 3 axis from aliexpress:)
[11:22:25] <Rab> Yeah, but then you need to mount and align everything. I guess I'd be willing to pay a premium for a shortcut.
[11:23:06] <LeelooMinai> Rab: http://www.aliexpress.com/item/3-SBR16-400-600-1000mm-Linear-rail-support-sets-3-ballscrews-RM1605-3-BK12-BF12-Ball/884508645.html
[11:23:13] <LeelooMinai> Well, you will have to align everything anyways
[11:23:37] <Rab> LeelooMinai, have you found those components to wear well?
[11:24:06] <LeelooMinai> Rab: I am just finishing my build, so no data, but many people use those
[11:26:43] <Rab> Thanks for the tip...I guess if I were using chinese components, I might as well just buy one of the 3040/etc kits and save some trouble.
[11:27:35] <LeelooMinai> Well, depends - you can buy those, yes, but if you want some massive stiff frame, you may still want to build it yourself - that's what I did
[11:28:41] <Rab> I got lucky and found a massive stiff frame. ;) http://reboots.g-cipher.net/ghettocnc/axistest.jpg
[11:28:54] <Rab> Which I'd like to duplicate now, but scaled down.
[11:29:23] <LeelooMinai> That's a weird one
[11:30:32] <Rab> http://reboots.g-cipher.net/ghettocnc/zmounted.jpg
[11:30:41] <Rab> Really weird, but the whole thing was almost free.
[11:32:02] <LeelooMinai> What's with those rails - are they glued or something? :)
[11:33:15] <Rab> No, whoever put that axis together (wasn't me) stripped the paint off the aluminum channel for the supports.
[11:37:42] <PetefromTn_> That's really weird...
[11:38:38] <PetefromTn_> almost looks like the rails were silver soldered on there or something but that would be inadvisable how are they attached?
[11:41:26] <Rab> PetefromTn_, screws from the back. You can sort of get a better view here: http://reboots.g-cipher.net/ghettocnc/testcut3.jpg
[11:43:30] <PetefromTn_> ah
[11:55:51] <_methods> so you can't toggle block delete while a program is running in linuxcnc?
[11:57:47] <_methods> weird in the docs it just says "Normally the block delete switch should be set before starting the NGC program."
[11:57:48] <cradek> I don't think so, but I think you CAN toggle optional stop
[11:58:28] <cradek> unfortunately block delete can make your entire program become different, so it's hard to allow toggling it during a run
[11:58:42] <jthornton> toggle skip lines is grayed out when running
[11:58:50] <jthornton> in Axis
[11:58:51] <_methods> ah that sux
[11:59:03] <_methods> well that rules out option block for tool change move
[11:59:06] <cradek> yeah that's good, if it can't ord oesn't work
[11:59:12] <cradek> or doesn't
[12:00:12] <_methods> well not tool change, insert/inspection of tool moves
[12:00:37] <cradek> yeah
[12:01:05] <cradek> putting opstops at the places where it's not touching the work would be a decent way, though
[12:01:10] <_methods> yeah
[12:01:18] <_methods> i'd throw in some opstop moves
[12:01:26] <_methods> inspection stops
[12:01:58] <_methods> have it rapid through the moves then if you want to stop turn on rapid override and option stop
[12:02:30] <_methods> guess you wouldnt need rapid override but
[12:03:46] <_methods> sure would be a lot easier with option block though lol
[12:05:46] <_methods> if you have an option stop active can you enable block delete at that point?
[12:05:55] <cradek> I'm not sure
[12:05:58] <_methods> i'm not at a lcnc machine so i can 't check right now
[12:06:16] <cradek> I think it's true it doesn't readahead past opstops
[12:06:25] <_methods> hmmm
[12:07:49] <cradek> without too much careful thought, I think the fix for block delete is possible: don't ever readahead past the start of any possibly-block-deleted block
[12:07:51] <_methods> apparently someone feels the same way i do about block delete lol
[12:07:53] <_methods> http://sourceforge.net/p/emc/bugs/323/
[12:08:46] <cradek> I agree it would be nice if it would work that way
[12:09:07] <PetefromTn_> This is something I don't understand
[12:09:16] <cradek> I think it's possible with small sacrifice (no readahead past, so there will be a pause/stutter at, the start of a /slashed block)
[12:09:18] <PetefromTn_> what would you use this block delete feature for and how
[12:09:30] <_methods> for option routines
[12:09:42] <_methods> added programming that doesnt necessarily need to execute on every run
[12:09:43] <cradek> PetefromTn_: it just lets you choose to skip some parts of the program
[12:09:44] <PetefromTn_> I saw the feature mentioned in the discussion about jog while paused earlier today
[12:10:03] <_methods> well i think adding jog on pause would be more difficult
[12:10:09] <cradek> you can use it for all sorts of things
[12:10:10] <PetefromTn_> how do you delineate where a block is in the program?
[12:10:13] <_methods> than say enabling block delete
[12:10:22] <_methods> wiht /
[12:10:23] <cradek> you put / at the beginning of the line
[12:10:30] <cradek> then if block delete is on, it skips those lines
[12:10:40] <PetefromTn_> aah interesting
[12:10:45] <_methods> i use them alot for macros and tool inspection loops
[12:11:03] <_methods> if the operator thinks the tools are sounding bad flip the block delete
[12:11:13] <_methods> it will move off the part and let them inspect/change inserts
[12:11:14] <PetefromTn_> I can see how that would be useful for say running the same program for two sides of a part where one side gets something the other does not.
[12:11:15] <cradek> think of the old paper tape controls. if it sees / first, it checks the block delete switch, if it's on, it reads right past and looks for the next gcode block
[12:11:52] <_methods> they're incredibly useful
[12:11:56] <cradek> easy if you don't read ahead and try to understand the whole program like we do!
[12:12:12] <cradek> because it can make the program totally different
[12:12:13] <PetefromTn_> I understand that the Jog while paused feature is difficult to implement
[12:12:19] <cradek> think of /g91 or /g20
[12:12:52] <_methods> yeah
[12:13:06] <PetefromTn_> http://atyourservice.haascnc.com/expert-tip/run-stop-jog-continue/ It would be awesome to have this capability tho. it would seem a little intelligence on the part of the operator is assumed for running this stufff
[12:14:07] <_methods> hell it's all hobby for me so i personally don't care
[12:14:14] <_methods> linuxcnc does everything i need
[12:14:52] <PetefromTn_> funny thing is two other HOBBY controls already have this feature
[12:15:00] <_methods> i appreciate everything that emc/linuxcnc has ever done for me for sure
[12:15:10] <PetefromTn_> who doesn't
[12:15:14] <PetefromTn_> I LOVE linuxCNC
[12:15:20] <_methods> indeed
[12:16:10] <_methods> can you even donate anywhere for linuxcnc?
[12:16:40] <cradek> nope, we're just individuals
[12:16:55] <cradek> there's no organization to donate to because we're all allergic to organizations
[12:17:06] <PetefromTn_> this is something that would make running my machines MUCH easier I used it all the time when I ran Mach3 especially when you are learning to run a machine and not sure of what or how the cut is progressing...
[12:17:15] <pcw_home> it may also be a that a hobby quality implementation of jog while paused is easy (offsets + limit comp in hal would probably work)
[12:17:43] <cradek> yeah that would be possible, but a bit craptacular
[12:18:05] <pcw_home> well, yes...
[12:18:59] <_methods> buwhshahahah
[12:19:01] <_methods> http://www.storenvy.com/products/5563165-alien-facehugger-dog-leash
[12:19:03] <PetefromTn_> if you read that HAAS description of their run-stop-jog-continue it does not sound like it is all that comlex. The control basically records the position the tool was in when the pause occurred.
[12:19:16] <cradek> that's a lot like an implementation that is floating around: it adds a new type of offsetting/moving that you only use while paused; the continuous/incremental/wheel jogs don't work in that state
[12:19:39] <PetefromTn_> it also does not worry about length offsets etc. it maintains the ones it had before.
[12:20:15] <cradek> so you have to make a panel with a new kind of jogging controls for just that, or something similar
[12:20:41] <PetefromTn_> and the operator is responsible for moving the tool to an appropriate close location and that there is nothing in the path to the paused location.
[12:21:05] <cradek> PetefromTn_: you can't even change tool offsets while in that state?
[12:21:16] <PetefromTn_> hell just being able to raise the Z and turn spindle on and off would be worthwhile
[12:21:26] <DaViruz> " If replacing tools, the length must be the same as the previous tool (offline tool setter recommended)."
[12:21:29] <DaViruz> seems like it
[12:21:34] <PetefromTn_> no look at that link I just posted it describes how it works
[12:21:34] <cradek> ugh
[12:21:58] <PetefromTn_> and let me tell you we used that feature a LOT in the job shops I worked in.
[12:22:32] <pcw_home> naive question: can Robert Ellenbergs jog-while-pause changes to (motion?) be incorporated into linuxcnc?
[12:22:48] <pcw_home> paused
[12:22:54] <cradek> I don't know of these changes
[12:23:47] <cradek> Rob did not do the one (makes a new kind of jogging) I was describing earlier
[12:24:11] <PetefromTn_> honestly if that HAAS methodology could be adapted to LinuxCNC it would be wonderful and very useful despite it's limitations. even when changing inserts on the HAAS machines we seldom if ever retouched the tool off
[12:24:18] <cradek> I don't see any benefit of "make a new kind of jogging" over a purely hal solution like you described, so I would not want that merged
[12:24:39] <cradek> I'm all for a good solution (which to me would include the ability to change tool offset)
[12:25:02] <cradek> and would allow the existing kinds of continuous/incremental/wheel jog
[12:25:38] <pcw_home> Andy linked to this https://github.com/machinekit/machinekit/pull/109
[12:26:29] <cradek> I suspect that's the implementation I'm talking about, which we have on a branch too, that makes a new kind of jogging on hal pins
[12:26:42] <cradek> we already have rob's new tp in 2.7
[12:26:59] <PetefromTn_> I agree it would be nice to be able to add in a new tool offset and have it active but that seems much more difficult.
[12:27:48] <PetefromTn_> that new TP looks awesome and I am very glad to hear it is being implemented.
[12:28:08] <cradek> me too
[12:28:22] <PetefromTn_> is there some description of his jog while paused setup in that I can read?
[12:28:39] <cradek> the list
[12:29:09] <cradek> instead, I recommend a purely hal setup like pcw_home described. it is no worse.
[12:29:25] <cradek> using offset + limit3
[12:29:35] <PetefromTn_> maybe I should add...something I can read that does not require a programmers knowldege :P
[12:30:12] <cradek> actually this might have been mostly discussed in irc, making it harder for you to find, unfortunately
[12:30:24] <cradek> bbl, lunchtime
[12:32:56] <zeeshan|2> yay
[12:33:00] <zeeshan|2> this 430 inverter
[12:33:05] <zeeshan|2> uses rs485. devicenet is an OPTION
[12:33:06] <zeeshan|2> GOOD
[12:35:50] <zeeshan|2> i dunno why i used modbus rtu
[12:35:53] <zeeshan|2> i shoulda used modbus ascii
[12:36:04] <zeeshan|2> so it ends communication @ end characters
[12:36:08] <zeeshan|2> rather than waiting 10 ms
[12:40:01] <zeeshan|2> does anyone know if theres any bad effects to increasing transmission speed for something like modbus
[12:40:17] <zeeshan|2> are higher speeds more susceptible to noise for example?
[12:40:27] <zeeshan|2> 9600vs19200
[12:43:33] <PetefromTn_> http://monsterjaws.com/american-stnd-tongue-groove/ Interesting...
[12:43:57] <_methods> nice
[12:44:12] <PetefromTn_> never seen them before
[12:44:17] <_methods> pie jaws?
[12:44:18] <zeeshan|2> oxtoolco
[12:44:21] <zeeshan|2> and all these guys use em!
[12:44:25] <PetefromTn_> they seem to sell a lot of usable stuff for vises and lathe ops
[12:44:54] <_methods> hmm 10 pack of soft jaws for $75
[12:44:59] <zeeshan|2> i dont understand how those pie jaws work?
[12:45:17] <_methods> they're for holding stuff that you can' tput a lot of chuck pressure on
[12:45:36] <_methods> you bore them out to fit the work piece
[12:45:36] <zeeshan|2> okay i see what you mean
[12:45:37] <PetefromTn_> they are machinable jaws
[12:45:58] <zeeshan|2> theyll have a bigger clamping surface
[12:46:00] <zeeshan|2> right?
[12:46:03] <zeeshan|2> if im imagining this right...
[12:46:04] <_methods> yes
[12:46:06] <zeeshan|2> ok:)
[12:46:12] <_methods> so you can use lighter pressure on thin wall parts
[12:46:20] <zeeshan|2> f thin wall man
[12:46:28] <zeeshan|2> i was holding a .125 6061 4" tube
[12:46:34] <zeeshan|2> 8" long
[12:46:36] <zeeshan|2> shit flew out on me
[12:46:43] <zeeshan|2> i hold them from inside out now
[12:46:56] <zeeshan|2> or if HAVE to hold em from the outside
[12:47:09] <zeeshan|2> i make a plug for the end im holding it at
[12:47:21] <_methods> damn nice 10 pack of 6" jaws $95
[12:51:34] <PetefromTn_> yeah those are nice
[12:52:05] <PetefromTn_> once my CNC lathe is operational I will be looking for a D1-5 chuck with replaceable jaws for it. They are awesome
[12:52:41] <Tom_itx> what's up peeps
[12:53:05] <PetefromTn_> peep!
[12:54:19] <Tom_itx> i see more talk about pause resume
[12:54:23] <_methods> i love the collet pad jaws
[12:54:26] <Tom_itx> what is it you're after PetefromTn_?
[12:54:33] <_methods> i need to get some of those for my lathe
[12:54:55] <Tom_itx> our okuma had em
[12:54:57] <_methods> http://www.dillonmfg.com/contents/collet_pads_jaws.asp
[12:54:58] <Tom_itx> pretty handy
[12:55:07] <_methods> makes setups a breeze
[12:55:18] <_methods> just drop in new top pads and off ya go
[12:55:48] <_methods> http://www.usshoptools.com/prod_page_level_3_pdf.asp?mm_level_3_code=%20101080_25
[12:55:52] <_methods> better pic of them there
[12:56:34] <PetefromTn_> Tom_itx Basically would love something like this...... http://atyourservice.haascnc.com/expert-tip/run-stop-jog-continue/
[12:57:21] <Tom_itx> yep, i've mentioned that in the past to them
[12:57:31] <PetefromTn_> it would be awesome
[12:57:48] <Tom_itx> the op would have to be responsible for the return path
[12:58:02] <PetefromTn_> I'm good with that...
[12:58:19] <PetefromTn_> mach3 used to kinda auto program a return path and it was USUALLY wrong LOL
[12:58:32] <zeeshan|2> it should track how you jog it
[12:58:34] <Tom_itx> pause... store coordinates... jog away... resume previous coordinates and off you go
[12:58:37] <zeeshan|2> and use that same jog path back :P
[12:58:38] <PetefromTn_> I like the idea of bringing the cutter CLOSE to where it was and then implementing that return
[12:58:57] <PetefromTn_> Zeeshan...not necessarily
[12:59:19] <Tom_itx> lcnc generally takes the shortest path i've found
[12:59:30] <zeeshan|2> ^crash alert
[12:59:31] <zeeshan|2> :D
[12:59:32] <PetefromTn_> how do you mean?
[12:59:36] <Tom_itx> not all controls do that
[12:59:58] <Tom_itx> i mean it will run all axis at once to get to it's destination
[13:00:23] <Tom_itx> that's why i put the G28Z0 on a line by itself now
[13:00:31] <Tom_itx> then x and y
[13:00:43] <zeeshan|2> thats how youre supposed to do it no?
[13:00:51] <zeeshan|2> otherwise itll linearly interpolate in xyz
[13:01:03] <Tom_itx> some controls would move z to clear first
[13:01:17] <zeeshan|2> so they have safety features :)_
[13:01:20] <PetefromTn_> It really needs to be that way for most operations.
[13:01:29] <zeeshan|2> well for g00 i agree
[13:01:33] <zeeshan|2> but g01 might need xyz movement
[13:01:39] <_methods> you should put z on sep line on all machines lol
[13:01:50] <zeeshan|2> _methods: yea ive seen z move in rapid by itself
[13:01:55] <_methods> g28z0 = danger
[13:02:23] <PetefromTn_> but for jog while paused it would seem like it should be the responsibility of the operator to jog the cutter back to CLOSE to where it was when paused. this shoud avoid any serious problems
[13:02:24] <_methods> well some machines move z last
[13:02:26] <Tom_itx> i just wish to heck i was a better programmer... i'd jump in and help em out
[13:02:31] <_methods> but others combine z into the xy move
[13:03:01] <PetefromTn_> why is G28 Zo danger I use it sometimes
[13:03:11] <Tom_itx> no danger
[13:03:13] <_methods> if you do a g28 x0 y0 z0
[13:03:17] <PetefromTn_> mostly now I use G53 G0 Z0
[13:03:20] <Tom_itx> but G28 Z0 X0 Y0 is
[13:03:33] <_methods> yes g53z0 is safest
[13:03:39] <_methods> it's what i default to also
[13:03:52] <zeeshan|2> PCW: are you there?
[13:04:01] <zeeshan|2> http://www.sayal.com/images_c/AAE-160B.JPG
[13:04:07] <PetefromTn_> man that would be sweet to have the HAAS setup for jog while paused on the linuxCNC machine.
[13:04:08] <zeeshan|2> is it okay to use this type of angle connector at the 7i77
[13:04:43] <pcw_home> not sure what you are asking
[13:05:13] <pcw_home> the 7i77 connects to the 5I25/6I25 with a male/male cable
[13:05:16] <Tom_itx> i haven't tried it but i'd be willing to bet G53 X0 Y0 Z0 would act the same way as with G28
[13:05:20] <zeeshan|2> yes
[13:05:22] <Tom_itx> taking the shortest path
[13:05:35] <zeeshan|2> but i need to make a 90 deg right at the 7i77 for better cable routing
[13:05:46] <_methods> i take no risks with those move
[13:05:46] <zeeshan|2> i was wondering if using an adapter like that cause issues
[13:05:48] <_methods> i clean z
[13:05:49] <zeeshan|2> like noise
[13:05:50] <_methods> then xy
[13:05:57] <Tom_itx> yep
[13:06:03] <_methods> you only have to get burned one time
[13:06:05] <pcw_home> how long is the cable?
[13:06:11] <Tom_itx> the previous controls i programmed for didn't do that
[13:06:15] <zeeshan|2> whatever length comes in the kit
[13:06:21] <zeeshan|2> looks like 4 feet
[13:06:42] <_methods> last shop i was in had like 6 diff controllers
[13:06:50] <_methods> so i learned the hard way a couple times
[13:06:55] <zeeshan|2> https://www.flickr.com/photos/128539016@N05/15188551783/
[13:07:02] <zeeshan|2> i want it to be 90 degree at outlet there
[13:07:03] <_methods> meldas, yasnac, haas, mazak, heidenhan
[13:07:04] <zeeshan|2> so i can make use of the din rail
[13:07:23] <_methods> better to go with safe moves
[13:07:28] <zeeshan|2> or for such a small run can i just use a header?
[13:07:46] <PetefromTn_> I am sure I have seen 90 degree adapters man.
[13:07:52] <pcw_home> a flat cable should be OK for a short run
[13:08:33] <Connor> zeeshan|2: What you showed was a PCB mount connector..
[13:08:41] <Connor> not a right angle adapter.
[13:08:42] <zeeshan|2> o
[13:08:54] <zeeshan|2> =/
[13:09:47] <Connor> and why didn't you leave room for wire conduit ?
[13:09:57] <zeeshan|2> im not running one
[13:09:59] <zeeshan|2> juse using zip tie pads
[13:10:02] <pcw_home> I probably should assemble some 7I77's/7I76's with vertical connectors (someone else asked about this)
[13:10:28] <Connor> pcw_home: I would swap my 7i76 out for one.
[13:10:41] <Connor> I had to hack the db25 connector to allow clearance..
[13:10:56] <zeeshan|2> me wants to use this
[13:10:57] <zeeshan|2> https://encrypted-tbn1.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcTnRbwHCh2mnDLQdOYHIRcH-hXI8ORzSyCP6is31y-Pz6MTojfB4g
[13:10:57] <zeeshan|2> :D
[13:10:59] <Connor> it still a tad too close to the back of the connectors for my taste.
[13:11:02] <Connor> let me go take a picture.
[13:13:12] <PetefromTn_> yeah I could see how a 7i77 with a right angle connector would be nice to have.
[13:13:38] <_methods> can't you just desolder the connector on there and solder on one facing the way you want?
[13:13:55] <PetefromTn_> my Cincinatti has AMPLE room to be able to use the DIn rail adapter and have the cable going out the side but in smaller hobby type machines it would be nice to have it I am sure.
[13:13:56] <zeeshan|2> warranty void!
[13:14:00] <zeeshan|2> http://www.showmecables.com/product/DB25-Female-Connector-Flat-Wire-IDC-Type.aspx
[13:14:04] <zeeshan|2> i think im gonna get male versions of this
[13:14:05] <zeeshan|2> 2 of em
[13:14:10] <zeeshan|2> and just make my own cable
[13:14:15] <zeeshan|2> itll be more compact
[13:14:39] <zeeshan|2> http://www.sayal.com/images_c/AAF-126.JPG
[13:14:40] <zeeshan|2> there we go
[13:14:42] <_methods> warranty void lol
[13:14:44] <Connor> _methods: mess up the through hole plated connectors.
[13:15:05] <pcw_home> yeah a bit tricky on 4 layer boards
[13:15:12] <_methods> ahh
[13:15:17] <_methods> hakko 808
[13:15:30] <_methods> heheh
[13:15:49] <zeeshan|2> 28awg fine?
[13:16:05] <zeeshan|2> looks like thats the most common flat cable
[13:16:29] <zeeshan|2> 0.50 spacing
[13:16:32] <zeeshan|2> 0.05
[13:17:31] <PetefromTn_> http://www.vdiholder.ca/tool_holder/P00008091-scroll_chuck_jaw_chuck_kd5_8_d1_5_8.html WOW!! That is expensive LOL...
[13:18:09] <_methods> that's like $100 USD right?
[13:18:41] <PetefromTn_> woah I missed that it was Canadian bucks LOL
[13:18:53] <_methods> just send them some beer
[13:18:53] <PetefromTn_> I can do a hundred..where do I send it?
[13:19:29] <PetefromTn_> Whats weird is I know my machine is D1-5 but what does the D1-5-8 mean?
[13:19:47] <Connor> http://www.ivdc.com/cnc/mill_11_21_14_01.jpg
[13:19:54] <Connor> http://www.ivdc.com/cnc/mill_11_21_14_02.jpg
[13:20:15] <PetefromTn_> Tidy
[13:20:22] <zeeshan|2> pete prolly adapts on both 5 and 8
[13:20:26] <FinboySlick> _methods: Our concept of beer is different.
[13:20:35] <_methods> hehe
[13:20:41] <zeeshan|2> connor just use the header
[13:20:44] <zeeshan|2> idc thing i posted
[13:21:00] <PetefromTn_> 5 and 8 what?
[13:21:06] <FinboySlick> _methods: The US/CA beer exchange rate wouldn't be favourable to the transaction.
[13:21:11] <zeeshan|2> d1-5 or d1-8
[13:21:29] <PetefromTn_> no way man. Even D1-6 is a huge difference
[13:21:49] <Connor> zeeshan|2: I may switch to something like that if I hve issues..
[13:22:06] <zeeshan|2> http://imgs.inkfrog.com/pix/Futurebusiness/DSC_2712_002.JPG http://shopswarf.orconhosting.net.nz/a1.jpg
[13:22:15] <zeeshan|2> mutisize fit chuck
[13:22:16] <Connor> the connector it's so close to.. is the DC side of the spindle.. :(
[13:22:43] <zeeshan|2> ive seen some for d1-3 and d1-6
[13:23:00] <_methods> Connor: is that a computer case you got that all fit into?
[13:23:13] <PetefromTn_> the taper bore on the D1-5 and D1-6 is quite a bit bigger
[13:23:15] <Connor> _methods: Yes. It's a 4U rackmount case.
[13:23:18] <_methods> ahhhhh
[13:23:19] <_methods> nice
[13:23:24] <_methods> rosewill 4u?
[13:23:29] <zeeshan|2> then i have no idea :P
[13:23:45] <PetefromTn_> I mean if you look at a D1-6 next to my D1-5 there is a vast difference
[13:23:48] <zeeshan|2> oh maybe it means
[13:23:49] <Connor> No idea.. was one I had laying around from my years as a Systems Administrator for a ISP
[13:23:52] <zeeshan|2> d1-5 8" diameter
[13:23:55] <PetefromTn_> it is MUCH larger
[13:23:58] <_methods> great idea
[13:24:12] <_methods> i got some old dell 6u cases sitting here
[13:24:13] <PetefromTn_> OH DUH!
[13:24:22] <PetefromTn_> yeah that is what it must mean LOL
[13:24:29] <zeeshan|2> thats a retarded way to list it
[13:24:29] <zeeshan|2> haha
[13:25:25] <PetefromTn_> yeah my old lathe was D1-4 and the D1-5 is much larger and has twice as many locking pins.
[13:25:36] <Connor> I am more than a little concerned about EMF with the proximity of the steppers and the DC spindle...
[13:26:23] <Connor> I took the PC PSU apart and removed allot of the excess wires too..
[13:26:39] <zeeshan|2> its 4 the number of locking pins
[13:26:43] <zeeshan|2> and 5 = 5
[13:26:45] <zeeshan|2> *isnt
[13:26:48] <PetefromTn_> looks like 1082 canuk dollars is 968 US dollars apparently but after I pay to ship it and whatever customs it will probably be a wash.
[13:27:05] <zeeshan|2> PetefromTn_: try looking at industry shutdowns
[13:27:09] <zeeshan|2> ive seen some of those chucks go for cheap!
[13:27:14] <zeeshan|2> by cheap i mean around 200 bux
[13:27:17] <zeeshan|2> to 300
[13:27:25] <zeeshan|2> theyre so sexy
[13:27:34] <_methods> hell yeah never thought to put them in an old rack case
[13:27:45] <_methods> i got a dell 6650 and 6600 sittin here doing nothing
[13:27:45] <PetefromTn_> http://www.shars.com/files/products/202-5451/202-5450D.jpg D1-4
[13:27:54] <_methods> guess i found them a new use lol
[13:28:00] <Connor> http://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_odkw=d1-5+chucl&_from=R40&_osacat=0&_from=R40&_trksid=p2045573.m570.l1313.TR1.TRC0.A0.H0.Xd1-5+chuck&_nkw=d1-5+chuck&_sacat=0
[13:28:07] <_methods> too bad the power suppies fromt eh 6600 are gone
[13:28:09] <zeeshan|2> PetefromTn_: what the hell man
[13:28:11] <zeeshan|2> i always thought it was 4 pins
[13:28:12] <zeeshan|2> lol
[13:28:34] <PetefromTn_> http://www.shars.com/files/products/202-5452/202-5452Main.jpg
[13:28:42] <_methods> i could probably put a whole mini mill in the 6600 case
[13:28:46] <PetefromTn_> D1-5
[13:28:51] <_methods> with the electronics lol
[13:29:00] <PetefromTn_> not sure where they get the numbers really
[13:29:36] <PetefromTn_> but my D1-5 has the same number of pins as the D1-6 only they are thinner pins and the diameter is different
[13:30:54] <PetefromTn_> http://shars.com/files/products/202-5457/202-5457sketch.jpg http://shars.com/files/products/202-5458/202-5458sketch.jpg http://shars.com/files/products/202-5453/202-5453sketch.jpg
[13:34:29] <Connor> http://shopswarf.orconhosting.net.nz/chuckmt.html
[13:35:35] <Connor> looks like the D1-# is loosely based on the A dimension.
[13:38:41] <PetefromTn_> I suppose
[13:41:11] <Connor> Look at the A-1 specs too.. they match the A dimension too.
[13:42:36] <PetefromTn_> yup
[13:44:40] <zeeshan|2> hmmm
[13:44:47] <zeeshan|2> so it looks like spindle encoder -> 7i77
[13:45:05] <zeeshan|2> then 7i77 driver -> spindle VFD (0-10v signal)
[13:45:09] <zeeshan|2> for feedback
[13:45:19] <Connor> yup
[13:45:20] <zeeshan|2> anyone mess around with a vfd like that?
[13:45:26] <Tom_itx> sounds reasonable
[13:45:39] <Connor> That's pretty typical.
[13:45:53] <zeeshan|2> so its just treating the vfd similar to a servo drive :P
[13:45:56] <Connor> Some VFD's can take the encoder signal in... and repeat it out to the 7i77 too
[13:46:40] <zeeshan|2> just to clarify this is VELOCITY feedback
[13:46:40] <zeeshan|2> right?
[13:46:57] <zeeshan|2> you would be trying to control the rpm of the motor
[13:47:02] <Connor> It uses it for Rigied tapping too.
[13:47:04] <Connor> but, yes.
[13:47:30] <zeeshan|2> i dont understand the point of having pid control of the vfd
[13:47:31] <Connor> and supposedly with the orient command, you can orient the spindle too..
[13:47:48] <zeeshan|2> why does it matter that its at 510 rpm and while your encoder measures 500
[13:47:49] <Connor> You don't have PID control.. you just have feed back.
[13:48:08] <Connor> you CAN add PID control..
[13:48:09] <zeeshan|2> i mean: this vfd uses that 0-10v signal
[13:48:14] <zeeshan|2> and uses that for pid
[13:48:19] <zeeshan|2> but i dont see what the point is?
[13:48:26] <zeeshan|2> in a milling application
[13:48:32] <zeeshan|2> what difference does it make if youre at 510 rpm
[13:48:33] <zeeshan|2> vs 500
[13:48:41] <Connor> RIGID TAPPING
[13:48:51] <zeeshan|2> ........that's done through linuxcnc
[13:49:00] <cradek> rigid tapping in linuxcnc doesn't need close velocity control
[13:49:05] <zeeshan|2> the encoder is being monitoered in linuxcnc.
[13:49:10] <zeeshan|2> and rigid tapping is done that way
[13:49:11] <cradek> open loop vfd is perfectly fine and normal
[13:49:17] <cpresser> Connor: isnt the velocity-signal/index-pulse used for that?
[13:49:20] <archivist> even in tapping the machine follows the spindle and cares not what the vfd is doing
[13:49:30] <zeeshan|2> cradek do you know what the advantage of having the vfd in closed loop would be?
[13:49:42] <cradek> gratuitious complexity
[13:49:45] <zeeshan|2> haha
[13:49:56] <archivist> not sure vfds like closed loop at all
[13:50:15] <cradek> a vfd already does its own velocity control
[13:50:16] <Connor> Some VFD's can use encoder input for position control.
[13:50:26] <zeeshan|2> well this one is both sensorless vector
[13:50:28] <zeeshan|2> and feedback vector
[13:50:43] <cradek> either setup is fine
[13:50:53] <zeeshan|2> ok not gonna waste time trying to close loop the vfd
[13:51:10] <Connor> zeeshan|2: So, no encoder to the 7i77 ?
[13:51:18] <zeeshan|2> encoder will go to the 7i77
[13:51:21] <zeeshan|2> but no 0-10v to vfd
[13:51:37] <Connor> How are you running the VFD ?
[13:51:39] <Tom_L> http://www.alibaba.com/product-detail/Nemicon-Rotary-encoder-OME-500-2MCA_1647141935.html
[13:51:44] <zeeshan|2> sensorless vector
[13:51:47] <Tom_L> i've got about 4-5 of those
[13:51:49] <zeeshan|2> in that case
[13:51:57] <Tom_L> i wonder if they would hold up as a spindle encoder
[13:52:02] <Connor> Yes, but.. what control method ? 0-10v or modbus ?
[13:52:03] <Tom_L> belt drive
[13:52:16] <Tom_L> they look like they've got ball bearings in em
[13:52:21] <zeeshan|2> modbus
[13:52:32] <Connor> okay, so, no, you don't need 0-10v
[13:52:50] <Connor> you can do modbus, or 0-10v analog..
[13:53:25] <Connor> when using a VFD with 0-10v, so many volts = RPM
[13:53:36] <Connor> in a linear scale.
[13:53:50] <PetefromTn_> zeeshan|2 So while this is all true...you are MORE Than welcome to try to setup spindle orient in linuxCNC so I can copy it LOL
[13:55:45] <zeeshan|2> do it the good old way
[13:55:56] <zeeshan|2> limit switches
[13:56:00] <zeeshan|2> 1000 of them around the spindle
[13:56:05] <zeeshan|2> :D
[13:57:52] <Tom_itx> mmm specs say max rpm 6000.... within what my spindle does
[13:58:05] <Tom_itx> any thoughts?
[13:58:24] <Tom_itx> my main concern would be driving it with a belt
[13:59:40] <Tom_itx> shaft loading 1.96N axial and radial
[13:59:52] <zeeshan|2> tiny belt
[13:59:57] <zeeshan|2> you should be ok!
[14:00:02] <Tom_itx> it would be small yes
[14:00:16] <zeeshan|2> that looks like a nice encoder
[14:00:19] <Tom_itx> but belt is about the only way i can do it
[14:00:21] <zeeshan|2> abz
[14:00:23] <Tom_itx> they are tiny
[14:00:32] <Tom_itx> about 5/8" diameter or so
[14:00:57] <Tom_itx> 3/4
[14:01:26] <Tom_itx> and free so i wouldn't be risking much
[14:01:32] <Tom_itx> open collector outputs
[14:02:15] <Tom_itx> http://tom-itx.ddns01.com:81/~webpage/motors/focusring12.jpg
[14:02:17] <Tom_itx> came off that
[14:02:26] <Tom_itx> focus ring for some kind of medical equipment
[14:03:33] <Tom_L> http://www.nemicon.com/pdf/ome-a.pdf
[14:35:20] <zeeshan|2> nice
[14:35:31] <zeeshan|2> @ encoder
[14:36:10] <zeeshan|2> does the phase difference between A and B need to be exactly 90 degrees?
[14:36:13] <zeeshan|2> to what tolerance?
[14:36:23] <zeeshan|2> based on how i mount it
[14:36:29] <zeeshan|2> it might end up being lets say 76.81 degrees
[14:36:32] <zeeshan|2> can you compensate?
[14:37:12] * zeeshan|2 doesnt see anything in man encoder.9
[14:42:25] <PCW> commonly encoders specify quadrature to be within 45 to 135 degrees, its never perfect
[14:44:23] <PCW> of course this represents a small position error (+- 1/2 of a count) and does make velocity estimation worse so closer to 90 is better
[14:46:01] <zeeshan|2> okay :)
[14:46:11] <zeeshan|2> ill try my best to machine the mount to get it close to 90 deg
[14:46:29] <zeeshan|2> and slot it so i can adjust it while watching the scope in hal
[14:46:34] <andypugh> 180 is bad. DAMHIK
[14:46:43] <zeeshan|2> andypugh: its friday!
[15:09:25] <PCW> Its fried-egg!
[16:29:33] <Deejay> gn8
[17:27:45] <jdh> completely unrelated, but perhaps someone will know. When I scroll with my trackpad via 2-fingers, sometimes it jumps about 2/3 down the page which is incredibly annoying. Anyone know what I'm doing to make it jump?
[17:31:41] <andypugh> Linux? Mac? Win?
[17:32:02] <Tom_itx> http://tom-itx.ddns01.com:81/~webpage/cnc/new_pulleys/spindle_enc1.jpg
[17:32:16] <Tom_itx> http://tom-itx.ddns01.com:81/~webpage/cnc/new_pulleys/spindle_enc2.jpg
[17:32:53] <Tom_itx> JT-Shop ^^
[17:33:42] <Tom_itx> zeeshan|2 ^^
[17:33:55] <JT-Shop> Sweet!
[17:33:55] <Tom_itx> i think it should work ok
[17:34:19] <Tom_itx> this one has index too
[17:34:44] <jdh> win7/thinkpad
[17:35:48] <JT-Shop> so you can still use your drawbar with that setup?
[17:36:10] <Tom_itx> i think so... i haven't tried it yet
[17:36:17] <Tom_itx> i may have to make a spacer for it
[17:39:43] <Tom_itx> http://tom-itx.ddns01.com:81/~webpage/cnc/new_pulleys/spindle_enc3.jpg
[17:39:54] <Tom_itx> the drawbar has a spacer, i'll just make one a bit thicker
[17:40:30] <Tom_itx> i had the pulleys or i would have gotten some narrower ones
[17:42:05] <JT-Shop> my Australian guy is selling the heck out of my Air Filter Kits for the Spyder
[17:42:26] <Tom_itx> cook
[17:42:27] <Tom_itx> l
[17:43:08] <Tom_itx> do they have a spyder group there?
[17:43:53] <JT-Shop> dunno, but it seems like more ride the RS (sporty) model
[17:46:45] <Tom_itx> i still gotta wire this thing up
[17:46:51] <Tom_itx> just finished mounting it
[17:47:52] * JT-Shop goes to check the chicken n dumplins
[17:53:13] <andypugh> Tom_itx: I think I might have put the setscrew through the teeth to lower things.
[17:53:26] <Tom_itx> i could still
[17:53:29] <Tom_itx> i considered that
[17:53:58] <Tom_itx> there's no load to speak of on it
[17:54:06] <andypugh> It’s only a timing drive, so you don’t need full engagement
[17:54:13] <Tom_itx> right
[17:54:23] <Tom_itx> the encoder is pretty nice
[17:54:28] <Tom_itx> ball bearings etc
[17:54:36] <andypugh> (I would probably have used thin gears)
[17:54:46] <Tom_itx> i had all of it on hand
[17:55:02] <Tom_itx> or i may have
[17:55:43] <andypugh> https://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo/aVbHJizSs66kO-A_SLTs79MTjNZETYmyPJy0liipFm0?feat=directlink
[17:55:57] <Tom_itx> the encoders are off focus rings for some medical equipment
[17:56:10] <andypugh> (Though that is a Resolver, becsuse they are cooler than encoders :-)
[17:56:59] <Tom_itx> http://tom-itx.ddns01.com:81/~webpage/motors/focusring12.jpg
[17:57:10] <Tom_itx> original use for the encoders
[18:05:33] <andypugh> Tom_itx: That “thing” looks too good to dismantle
[18:06:23] <Jymmm> alex_joni: awake?
[18:06:45] <Tom_itx> well i really had no use for it
[18:06:51] <Tom_itx> i have 2 of em
[18:07:04] <Tom_itx> http://tom-itx.ddns01.com:81/~webpage/motors/motors_index.php
[18:07:09] <Tom_itx> several pics of it there
[18:07:48] <Jymmm> alex_joni: Where to get RF connectors in .ro ?
[18:13:10] <bnmorgan> woohoo back again
[18:13:18] <bnmorgan> home. and #$% that office.
[18:18:15] <zeeshan|2> Tom_itx: you scavenger!
[18:19:03] <zeeshan|2> nice mounting job :)
[18:19:07] <zeeshan|2> that was quick
[18:33:16] <Tom_itx> andypugh you don't think if i thread the pulley it will cut the belt?
[18:33:33] <Tom_itx> (put the setscrew in the pulley part)
[18:34:10] <zeeshan|2> no
[18:34:16] <zeeshan|2> thats a common way to hoild pulleys to shafts
[18:34:20] <zeeshan|2> theyre chamfered through
[18:34:49] <zeeshan|2> unless im intrepreting that q wrong :/
[18:34:57] <Tom_itx> i may do that to lower them on the shafts
[18:35:16] <Tom_itx> http://tom-itx.ddns01.com:81/~webpage/cnc/new_pulleys/spindle_enc1.jpg
[18:35:16] <zeeshan|2> Tom_itx: does it work?
[18:35:18] <zeeshan|2> your current setup
[18:35:20] <Tom_itx> cut the shoulder off
[18:35:25] <Tom_itx> i haven't wired it up yet
[18:35:29] <Tom_itx> i just got it mounted
[18:35:37] <Tom_itx> the old one worked
[18:35:40] <zeeshan|2> what size shaft does the encoder have?
[18:35:48] <Tom_itx> .156
[18:35:54] <Tom_itx> i had to make a bushing for it
[18:36:05] <zeeshan|2> that might sound silly
[18:36:12] <zeeshan|2> but cant you just flip both pulleys upside down
[18:36:17] <zeeshan|2> to lower the belt
[18:36:17] <Tom_itx> no
[18:36:26] <Tom_itx> the shaft isn't long enough
[18:36:28] <Tom_itx> on either one
[18:36:46] <zeeshan|2> it looks so good as is
[18:36:52] <zeeshan|2> id wait till that encoder blows up
[18:36:57] <zeeshan|2> till coming up with another method :P
[18:37:01] <zeeshan|2> (it wont blow up)
[18:37:05] <Tom_itx> i have 3 more
[18:37:12] <zeeshan|2> doesnt look like the belt has much tension
[18:37:16] <Tom_itx> no
[18:37:18] <zeeshan|2> so youre not owning the bearings
[18:37:24] <Tom_itx> just enough to keep it from slipping
[18:37:49] <zeeshan|2> and to be honest
[18:37:55] <zeeshan|2> if the belt was tensioned really tight
[18:38:00] <zeeshan|2> i bet that angle would flex :P
[18:38:07] <Tom_itx> it would
[18:38:10] <Tom_itx> it's pretty thin
[18:38:42] <zeeshan|2> i wish i could mount an encoder like that
[18:39:22] <zeeshan|2> http://www.ebay.com/itm/251321358155?_trksid=p2059210.m2749.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT
[18:39:24] <zeeshan|2> i bought 3 of these
[18:39:24] <Tom_itx> http://tom-itx.ddns01.com:81/~webpage/cnc/new_pulleys/new_pulley_mounted3.jpg
[18:39:35] <Tom_itx> i just took the spacer out and flipped the angle around
[18:39:38] <Tom_itx> from the old one
[18:39:40] <zeeshan|2> rofl
[18:39:40] <zeeshan|2> nice
[18:39:53] <Tom_itx> lowered it a bit
[18:39:56] <zeeshan|2> did you make that pcb?
[18:40:00] <Tom_itx> no
[18:40:03] <Tom_itx> that's from a printer
[18:40:07] <zeeshan|2> ah
[18:40:07] <Tom_itx> so is the encoder
[18:40:37] <Tom_itx> http://tom-itx.ddns01.com:81/~webpage/motors/stepper6.jpg
[18:40:41] <Tom_itx> original purpose
[18:40:48] <zeeshan|2> nice
[18:41:10] <Tom_itx> the new one is better i think
[18:41:32] <Tom_itx> i'll have to edit the hal a bit
[18:41:53] <Tom_itx> add an index channel and adjust the CPR
[18:42:19] <Tom_itx> next i'll have to figure a way to hack the speed control and add a relay for reverse
[18:45:07] <Tom_itx> i'll try it first but i think i'm gonna thin the pulleys down and thread a set screw for em
[19:03:43] <andypugh> zeeshan|2: For some reason YouTube is broken on my PC at the moment so I can’t find the timestamp, but I used sensors like that and a top-hat shapd pulley on mu Mini-mill: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZhICrb0Tbn4&list=UUexvgsGz_QFvOublovDYoTQ
[19:05:02] <zeeshan|2> nice
[19:05:04] <zeeshan|2> where did you buy those
[19:05:09] <zeeshan|2> i feel like i paid too much for the 3 i bought
[19:05:30] <zeeshan|2> do they have a schmit trigger in em?
[19:06:16] <andypugh> I can’t remember, it was a long time ago.
[19:06:19] <Tom_itx> you can get em from china
[19:06:23] <Tom_itx> like mine?
[19:06:38] <zeeshan|2> no Tom_itx
[19:06:40] <zeeshan|2> the slot type
[19:06:43] <zeeshan|2> right angle style
[19:06:45] <Tom_itx> oh ok
[19:06:58] <zeeshan|2> andypugh: howd you position a and b phase?
[19:07:13] <andypugh> slotted holes
[19:07:16] <zeeshan|2> no
[19:07:21] <zeeshan|2> i mean physical sensor relative to each other
[19:07:27] <zeeshan|2> to bring em 90 deg apart
[19:07:39] <andypugh> slotted holes
[19:07:51] * zeeshan|2 slaps himself
[19:07:52] <andypugh> (and halscope)
[19:08:00] <zeeshan|2> i thought you were talking about about the trigger wheel :P
[19:08:10] <Tom_itx> andypugh i wonder how well that would work with a stepper
[19:08:20] <zeeshan|2> looks great btw
[19:08:23] <Tom_itx> with encoder feedback
[19:09:17] <andypugh> Gah! The web page I found on how to stop YouTube crashing Safari crashed Safari!
[19:09:28] <Tom_itx> hah
[19:09:48] <andypugh> (And that’s the first time ever)
[19:10:35] <andypugh> Until this week Safari had been bulletprooof
[19:11:44] <PCW> zeeshan|2: I think you may be making a mistake with the spindle encoder,
[19:11:46] <PCW> this should wire to a hardware encoder input, not field I/O so should have 5V or TTL signal levels
[19:11:48] <PCW> not high level PNP or NPN type signals
[19:12:11] <zeeshan|2> PCW: these will be wired to the encoder inputs
[19:12:23] <zeeshan|2> hm
[19:13:24] <zeeshan|2> http://www.clrwtr.com/PDF/SUNX/SUNX-PM-Series-Photoelectric-Sensors.pdf
[19:13:27] <zeeshan|2> on page 4
[19:13:46] <zeeshan|2> says output "PNP open-collector transistor"
[19:14:05] <zeeshan|2> so that is the wrong type? :/
[19:14:23] <Tom_itx> you want it to pull up or down when active?
[19:14:32] <zeeshan|2> well i thought it was pull down
[19:14:41] <PCW> Its OK, you wll have to add a pulldown resistor to the 7I77 inputs
[19:14:42] <Tom_itx> NPN then i think
[19:14:47] <zeeshan|2> but hes right, i was thinking of putting it to field i/o
[19:15:13] <Tom_itx> i hope i don't have to redo my bit file for the spindle encoder now...
[19:15:58] * zeeshan|2 reads 7i77 pdf
[19:16:56] <Tom_itx> PCW have you come across anybody trying to control a sherline spindle with the stock control and a mesa card?
[19:16:59] <zeeshan|2> the encoder inputs arent pull down inputs?|
[19:17:15] <Tom_itx> i wonder if i could unhook the pot and add some sort of interface there
[19:17:39] <PCW> No, they pullup in TTL mode
[19:17:53] <zeeshan|2> son of a
[19:17:57] <zeeshan|2> so i needed to buy pnp not NPN
[19:17:58] <zeeshan|2> er
[19:18:01] <zeeshan|2> NPN nor PNP
[19:18:08] <zeeshan|2> those are way more common too!!!
[19:18:10] <Tom_itx> that's what i was thinking
[19:18:13] <zeeshan|2> fak
[19:18:21] <zeeshan|2> haha
[19:18:23] <Tom_itx> or add an inverter :D
[19:18:53] <Tom_itx> what are you switching?
[19:19:07] <zeeshan|2> Tom_itx: whatcha mean
[19:19:17] <PCW> or a 200 Ohm pulldown resistor/input
[19:19:18] <Tom_itx> what's the NPN hook to?
[19:19:18] <zeeshan|2> im hooking up the encoder signals directly to encoder input of 7i77
[19:19:25] <Tom_itx> oh ok
[19:19:32] <zeeshan|2> but field i/o is pull down
[19:19:35] <Tom_itx> nevermind, what i was thinking wouldn't work
[19:19:37] <zeeshan|2> and encoder input is pull up
[19:19:40] <zeeshan|2> damn it!
[19:20:16] <zeeshan|2> when someone finds this machine in 1000 years
[19:20:25] <zeeshan|2> they're gonna be so pissed off that i used a pnp encoder
[19:20:25] <PCW> its meant to work with open collector encoders (which always pull down = NPN)
[19:20:49] <Tom_itx> so you add pullups to the encoders?
[19:20:54] <zeeshan|2> pull down resistors
[19:20:58] <Tom_itx> to ensure they switch...
[19:20:59] <zeeshan|2> er
[19:21:05] * zeeshan|2 doesnt know anything anymore
[19:21:08] <Tom_itx> that's what i gotta to with this one
[19:21:23] <zeeshan|2> pcw whats wrong with wiring em to the field i/o? :-)
[19:21:26] <Tom_itx> but i already knew they were open collector
[19:21:31] <PCW> need to add pulldowns, the PNP opto pulls up
[19:21:54] <zeeshan|2> its too slow?
[19:22:09] <PCW> only problem with field I/O is that its only read at the servo thread rate
[19:22:21] <zeeshan|2> so theyre suseptible to jitter issues
[19:22:24] <PCW> (so nominally 1 KHz)
[19:22:43] <zeeshan|2> well thats 60000 rpm
[19:22:48] <zeeshan|2> this is 1:!
[19:22:50] <zeeshan|2> 1:1
[19:23:07] <zeeshan|2> i think my spindle hits a max of 5000 rpm
[19:23:20] <PCW> so with margin this would limit your max count rate to 500 Hz
[19:23:43] <zeeshan|2> 30000 rpm good enough! :)
[19:23:47] <PCW> so thats like 2 /3 slots at 5000 RPM
[19:25:04] <PCW> not very good, now you can use a higher res encoder if you only care about it at low speeds (say for tapping)
[19:25:16] <zeeshan|2> or just add pull down resistors
[19:25:21] <zeeshan|2> you said they need to be 200 ohm?
[19:25:35] <renesis> pullsups, no? non open collector?
[19:25:41] <renesis> *npn
[19:25:44] <zeeshan|2> its PNP
[19:25:47] <renesis> oh
[19:26:06] <zeeshan|2> so opto output -> 7i77 pin encoder A for example
[19:26:06] <renesis> this is still your gearshift encoders?
[19:26:16] <zeeshan|2> then encoder A -> 200 ohm resistor to ground?
[19:26:23] <PCW> The encoder inputs have 2K pullups so 200 Ohms would pull pretty close to ground
[19:26:32] <renesis> 200R, nice
[19:26:45] <renesis> that pulldown not fuckin around
[19:27:09] <renesis> oh
[19:27:13] <zeeshan|2> is my logic right?
[19:27:15] <zeeshan|2> about the wiring
[19:27:21] <PCW> and your optos can drive 50 mA so this is 25 mA
[19:27:22] <zeeshan|2> 200ohm to ground from the encoder input
[19:28:02] <PCW> Another option is to use one of the MPG inputs on the field I/O
[19:28:26] <zeeshan|2> from what i recall
[19:28:30] <zeeshan|2> thats inputs 16-20
[19:29:02] <zeeshan|2> nm
[19:29:03] <zeeshan|2> 16-19..
[19:29:14] <PCW> yes there are 2 channels (0=16,17, 1= 18,19)
[19:30:08] <PCW> these do not have a real index but I'm pretty sure the driver can simulate an index
[19:30:19] <zeeshan|2> ill use the pull down option
[19:30:20] <zeeshan|2> itll be easier
[19:30:28] <zeeshan|2> cause otherwise ill need to provide one of the vfields with 5v
[19:30:34] <zeeshan|2> and can't use that on board jumper anymore
[19:31:04] <PCW> you can use 24V signals into the MPG inputs
[19:31:26] <zeeshan|2> oh i just realized
[19:31:29] <zeeshan|2> this sensor doesnt need to be at 5v
[19:31:33] <zeeshan|2> its 5-24v
[19:31:37] <zeeshan|2> +/- 10%
[19:32:22] <zeeshan|2> (i was thinking the sensor can only work at 5v)
[19:32:25] <PCW> I suspect the real encoder input will be better/less trouble
[19:32:37] <zeeshan|2> okay pull down resistor it is
[19:33:03] <zeeshan|2> i mean each encoder input set
[19:33:05] <zeeshan|2> has a ground already there
[19:33:14] <zeeshan|2> itll be fairly easy to jumper a resistor between the pins
[19:33:33] <PCW> or at the OPTO
[19:34:03] <zeeshan|2> you know me and soldering resistors :-)
[19:34:08] <zeeshan|2> renesis knows all about that
[19:39:29] <zeeshan|2> http://imgur.com/MdNjEO7
[19:39:33] <zeeshan|2> triple check for resistor
[19:39:34] <zeeshan|2> correct?
[19:39:56] <PCW> yep
[19:40:56] <Tom_itx> PCW, QCountTag is encoder right?
[19:41:01] <Tom_itx> been a long day...
[19:41:13] <PCW> yes
[19:42:23] <Tom_itx> gotta see where i stuck sserial now...
[19:42:24] * LeelooMinai ponders if to put e-stop button on the control box that will be hanged on the wall
[19:43:38] <humble_sea_bass> I use my estop as a coat hook
[19:43:48] <humble_sea_bass> i also wear gloves when i machine
[19:43:55] <humble_sea_bass> and have long hair
[19:43:56] <LeelooMinai> I have all those scary scenarios in mind where something goes on fire:)
[19:44:01] <Tom_itx> long sleeves too?
[19:44:07] <humble_sea_bass> ALWAYS
[19:44:18] <humble_sea_bass> don't want to be hit by chips and swarf
[19:44:20] <humble_sea_bass> you know
[19:44:26] <Tom_itx> oh and neck bling...
[19:44:41] <humble_sea_bass> puka shell necklace
[19:44:44] <humble_sea_bass> and hossanas
[19:45:00] <humble_sea_bass> ISO whatever certified though
[19:48:24] <LeelooMinai> Hmm, would have to make hole for the button in the front door - kind of brutal
[19:50:24] <zeeshan|2> LeelooMinai: you dont need e-stop
[19:50:33] <zeeshan|2> your spindle so small you can stop it with your hand!
[19:50:37] * zeeshan|2 hides
[19:50:45] <LeelooMinai> Like Chuck NOrris
[19:50:56] <zeeshan|2> you have a drill press
[19:50:59] <zeeshan|2> do you have holesaws?
[19:51:03] <zeeshan|2> ez to drill holes
[19:51:22] <LeelooMinai> I do not worry about making holes - I already made two for fan and intake:)
[19:51:38] <zeeshan|2> so whats the problem
[19:51:42] <zeeshan|2> make a hole in the door
[19:51:44] <zeeshan|2> less irc
[19:51:45] <zeeshan|2> :-)
[19:51:56] <LeelooMinai> But, the hole would be on the front door and kind of big - so that the whole button sticks out of it
[19:52:05] <zeeshan|2> what
[19:52:13] <zeeshan|2> its like a 22mm hole?
[19:52:20] <zeeshan|2> arent your fan holes bigger?
[19:52:20] <LeelooMinai> Because if I attach button to the door directly, I will have crazy mains cables going over the 7i76:)
[19:52:23] <zeeshan|2> like 102mm?
[19:52:34] <LeelooMinai> No, I put small 70mm fan in there
[19:53:04] <zeeshan|2> your e-stop has mains wires going through it?
[19:53:19] <LeelooMinai> Well, I could also make smaller hole, but then I would need to unscrew the red cup every time I want to open the door:)
[19:53:42] <LeelooMinai> zeeshan|2: Isn't that the point of it? To cut off power?
[19:53:56] <zeeshan|2> how many amps go through your main?
[19:54:16] <LeelooMinai> It's just psu for stepper drivers - not much
[19:54:23] <zeeshan|2> ah oka
[19:54:34] <zeeshan|2> usually you use contactors to kill main power
[19:54:36] <zeeshan|2> not an e-stop :p
[19:54:50] <zeeshan|2> e-stop uses NC coils on the contactor
[19:55:10] <LeelooMinai> Well, it's rated for far more than that psu can handle
[20:00:06] <LeelooMinai> Maybe I should invest in a fire extingusher instead
[20:03:10] <jdh> send one to ssi
[20:03:25] <LeelooMinai> Too late? :)
[20:27:09] <CaptHindsight> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HqqevDDLfTg 'Human climbing with efficiently scaled gecko-inspired dry adhesives'
[20:33:39] <zq> hi guys
[20:33:42] <zq> i'm home