#linuxcnc | Logs for 2014-11-18

[02:17:31] <Deejay> moin
[03:09:21] <Jymmm> phantoneD: You're connection has been bouncing for five hours. Please correct it, change your nick, then rejoin.
[03:39:55] <Deejay> hrhr
[07:08:39] <Tom_itx> http://i.imgur.com/qex6WYq.jpg
[07:43:41] <malcom2073> hah
[07:44:22] <malcom2073> If I hear one more person say "zomg wd40 is water displacement, not lubracating"... I'ma shoot someone.
[07:46:05] <archivist> but but that is what the letters stand for and was the design spec
[07:46:26] <malcom2073> Might as well shoot myself, it's not gonna stop :P
[07:48:16] <archivist> I have has the misfortune to see people using it as a lube....
[07:49:12] <archivist> the worst place is a clock, it has a drying oil
[07:50:41] <SpeedEvil> It is a lube
[07:50:46] <SpeedEvil> To a degree
[07:50:54] <SpeedEvil> Water is a lube, as is blood
[07:52:58] <XXCoder> yeah
[07:53:10] <XXCoder> as all lubes, theres right uses and wrong uses
[07:53:20] <XXCoder> wd40 isn't very good for long term
[07:54:18] <pcw_home> Sulphuric acid is used a a lubricant for chlorine compressors
[07:55:13] <pcw_home> not suggested for general use
[07:55:28] <XXCoder> oh and all those horror movies monsters that glisten or stuff? all xy lube normally used for sex. lol
[07:55:33] <XXCoder> you're welcome.
[07:57:39] <malcom2073> petrolium jelly has a hundred uses
[08:12:20] <toxx> since a while i cannot initially home in axis sim. Buttons are greyed out.
[08:12:30] <toxx> any ideas?
[08:13:14] <kengu> power on, emergecy stop off?
[08:13:18] <toxx> i tried to remove any old configs, because I used some weired configs with machinkit
[08:13:27] <toxx> power on, shure
[08:13:58] <toxx> if i home by home-key, just the x-achsis moves and gets homed
[08:16:05] <toxx> if i choose y-axis and home it, it says: 'Cannot home while shared home switch is closed'
[08:16:50] <toxx> this appears with any sim-config I tried
[08:20:18] <toxx> I tried different versions, 2.5.x and 2.6.x, all the same
[08:20:30] <toxx> Im using debian sid
[08:21:06] <toxx> compiled from git
[08:22:30] <pcw_home> Hmm if I chose axis sim and press the home button it works
[08:23:52] <_methods> wtf is this machinekit
[08:24:20] <toxx> mybe there is some bad configfile from an old installation left and i erased the linuxcnc folder, but still..
[08:25:04] <toxx> http://www.machinekit.io/ experimental fork
[08:25:36] <archivist> _methods, a fork
[08:25:45] <archivist> a forkin fork
[08:25:50] <_methods> oh jeebus
[08:26:20] <archivist> which fails to document itself or help its users by the look of it
[08:26:38] <_methods> i keep reading shitty articles about it
[08:26:45] <_methods> but they all keep coming here for help
[08:26:58] <_methods> don't they have a machinekit room or something
[08:27:22] <archivist> I do think they are avoiding support
[08:27:46] <toxx> im using linuxcnc at the moment, not machinekit
[08:27:57] <archivist> it is trivial to create a freenode channel
[08:28:16] <malcom2073> _methods: they use google groups
[08:28:27] <malcom2073> I asked about a irc channel, they said the groups were wonderful and amazing etc etc
[08:28:33] <_methods> heheh
[08:28:51] <toxx> error message says:
[08:29:02] <toxx> TCL error in asynchronous code:
[08:29:02] <toxx> wrong # args: should be ".toolbar.program_step cmd ?arg ...?" while executing
[08:29:02] <toxx> ".toolbar.program_step" invoked from within
[08:29:03] <pcw_home> which sim hal file are you using? the ones I tried had a home all button
[08:29:31] <toxx> axis, axis_mm
[08:29:55] <archivist> lathe,mill or what
[08:29:59] <pcw_home> and what did you do to trigger the bug?
[08:30:45] <toxx> config: sim.axis-axis basic demo mill
[08:32:37] <toxx> when linuxcnc starts, "home all", "touch off" "spindle" keep greyed out, even after emergency off and power on
[08:34:41] <toxx> and I get the error in the console: http://pastebin.com/ZCvBqVZD
[08:34:51] <pcw_home> I can get the complaint about shared home switch but home all always works the first time
[08:36:19] <toxx> if i home via home-key, only x moves, y and z says: 'Cannot home while shared home switch is closed'
[08:36:59] <pcw_home> hmm all axis home here
[08:37:33] <_methods> you said you had machinekit installed?
[08:38:49] <cradek> toxx: that sim config has its (fake) home switches configured in a tricky way. if you use home all, it'll home
[08:39:06] <pcw_home> move off the simulated home switch and try again...
[08:39:12] <cradek> yeah or that
[08:39:23] <cradek> check out the "shared home switch" configuration option in the manual
[08:39:34] <pcw_home> its a learning tool :-)
[08:39:46] <cradek> your sim is set up that way, it's only tricky and incomprehensible because you can't SEE the home switch
[08:40:00] <cradek> if your real machine was that way, what to do would be quite intuitive
[08:42:20] <toxx> i just wonder why it doesnt work with factory setup
[08:42:22] <pcw_home> watch axis.0.home-sw-in, axis.1.home-sw-in, axis.2.home-sw-in to see whats going on
[08:42:33] <pcw_home> it does work
[08:43:04] <pcw_home> it just happens to be sitting in the home switches
[08:43:19] <pcw_home> s/in/on/
[08:43:49] <toxx> sorry, I don't get it
[08:45:00] <toxx> shure i could fiddle withthe config, but shouldn't it work out of the box? It used to ever since...
[08:46:22] <pcw_home> home-all works for me
[08:46:49] <pcw_home> estop off, machine on,home all
[08:46:58] <toxx> is there any key for home-all, not just x y z?
[08:47:12] <pcw_home> yep on mine there is
[08:47:21] <toxx> estop off, machine on,home button still greyed out
[08:47:42] <pcw_home> starting from scratch?
[08:47:56] <toxx> erased ~/linuxcnc
[08:48:19] <toxx> config from /usr/share/doc/linuxcnc/examples...
[08:50:39] <pcw_home> not sure what vintage those are, I just selected axis from the sim section in the linuxcnc config chooser
[08:51:49] <toxx> ok, i managed to home all with ctrl-home :)
[08:52:00] <toxx> but buttons are still greyed out :(
[08:52:57] <toxx> ok, running the g-code switche buttons on now
[08:53:53] <pcw_home> I cant duplicate that with a standard install, axis sim config from chooser
[08:55:12] <toxx> restart linuxcnc, same as before, switched on but greyed out. MDI doesn't take input even after homing
[08:55:38] <toxx> after running g-code, everything is fine
[08:57:41] <toxx> so that procedure works for me as a workaround, thanks for the hint with the keyboard shortcut for homing-all. Didn't knew that
[09:01:53] <toxx> but I still don't know the reason. what does the error output i posted in pastebin above?
[09:02:47] <pcw_home> Not sure, doesn't happen here
[09:03:09] <pcw_home> maybe something funny about your install
[09:03:29] <toxx> maybe tcl 8.6.0 from debian sid?
[09:04:29] <pcw_home> not sure
[09:08:44] <toxx> by the way, is it possible to configure two different probes, one for tool lenght, one for work piece?
[09:16:50] <Jymmm> HEY! We've been doing this all wrong!!! There's no need for LinuxCNC, Mills, Lathes, etc... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FaMWxLCGY0U
[09:29:02] <malcom2073> haha the comments
[09:29:07] <malcom2073> especially the valium one.
[09:44:55] <Jymmm> malcom2073: I NEVER read Youtube comments
[09:45:23] <malcom2073> You should occasionally. How else can you retain a lack of faith in humanity as a whole? :P
[09:45:28] <malcom2073> s/retain/maintain
[09:46:07] <Jymmm> malcom2073: I get a dose of dumbassery of humanity on a daily basis IRL
[09:46:24] <malcom2073> Heh, I don't work with end users, so I'm typically ok there
[09:47:08] <Jymmm> malcom2073: Neither do I, just walk out my front door. I'm STILL trying to figure out WHY homicide is illegal *shrug*
[09:48:52] <Jymmm> Man, I need to get me some of these...https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l7-DHbdHX3U
[09:49:06] <Jymmm> Got to find them in QTY=1 =)
[09:51:09] <malcom2073> adafruit has them, 32 leds for $30, I'm sure yo ucan find it cheaper
[09:51:32] <Jymmm> malcom2073: These are ADDRESSABLE, not just RGB
[09:52:03] <malcom2073> I know
[09:52:06] <Jymmm> k
[09:52:35] <Jymmm> And it's teh CONTROLLER I'm after, not the strips. I just found it for $25, still looking though.
[09:53:30] <Jymmm> I'm loving the RF mono and RF RGB controllers. They work REALLY well.
[09:54:02] <malcom2073> Ah, yeah dunno if you can get the controller seperate besides making your own
[09:54:11] <Jymmm> You can
[09:55:30] <Jymmm> $10 for IR, $25 for RF
[10:00:13] <_methods> hehe i set them up wifi
[10:00:18] <_methods> with that ESP8266
[10:01:05] <_methods> got a 5m strip for the xmas tree
[10:01:34] <_methods> wrote a web controller and android app to control the lights color and pattern lol
[10:02:23] <Jymmm> I doubt I'd be playing with a xmas enough that I need wifi or it's own website.
[10:02:44] <_methods> i just spun up a vm for the website
[10:02:48] <_methods> on my local network
[10:02:58] <Jymmm> doesn't matter =)
[10:03:55] <_methods> heh its mainly for the wife so she can change the tree color to whatever she wants
[10:04:02] <_methods> whenever the mood strikes her
[10:04:03] <_methods> lol
[10:04:24] <Jymmm> SUUUUUUUUUUUURE it is. And how many times has she changed it since you first did this?
[10:04:29] <_methods> hahahah
[10:04:32] <_methods> once
[10:04:38] <Jymmm> Exactly
[10:04:39] <_methods> but the tree is not up yet
[10:04:45] <jdh> tie it to her body temp.
[10:04:50] <_methods> buwhahahha
[10:04:55] <_methods> that's a great idea
[10:05:00] <_methods> mood lights
[10:05:10] <Jymmm> Yeah, if you want a divorce that is =)
[10:05:14] <_methods> hehe
[10:05:39] <Jymmm> or blue balls, your choice
[10:06:07] <Jymmm> or tired of hearing her voice.
[10:06:18] <Jymmm> or want to spend quality time with the dog
[10:06:28] <_methods> my brain has already learned to block those audio patterns
[10:07:15] <Jymmm> We can tell, as you have the time to make xmas tree websites
[10:07:27] <_methods> heheh
[10:07:39] <Jymmm> =)
[10:08:28] <Jymmm> What I did was wrap a RGB led strip up a 16ft fishing pole. Looks REALLY cool and bright as hell.
[10:08:49] <Jymmm> 5m is the perfect length
[10:09:02] <_methods> yeah i need to get some more 5m strips
[10:09:11] <_methods> but they're kinda spendy so i've been spacing them out
[10:09:15] <Loetmichel> *gna* whoever had designed that mercedes E-cklass 230cdi caravan front should be shot... took me 20 minutes out in the cold and rain (in tshirt) to chage the H7 bulb on my bosses car... and now my hands are scratecd and nearly broken to reach that stupid bulb... :-(
[10:10:03] <jdh> Loetmichel: I spent 45 mins one freezing day with 3 other people, one a GM mechanic trying to replace my headlight bulb on a yukon
[10:10:04] <_methods> but lights are on hold i want one of those 40 position tool posts for my lathe now
[10:10:05] <Jymmm> Loetmichel: And why were you in the RAIN in a tshirt?
[10:11:13] <_methods> one of those
[10:11:15] <_methods> http://www.lathes.co.uk/multifix/
[10:12:22] <jdh> that's a helluva tool holder
[10:12:50] <Loetmichel> Jymmm: because i thought "thats a wuick one, no need to put the jackt on"... i thought... ;-9
[10:13:06] <_methods> yeah i've always just used aloris style
[10:13:10] <Jymmm> Loetmichel: LOL, I hear ya =)
[10:13:15] <_methods> but i found that the other day and now i want one lol
[10:13:34] <archivist> I used to use a multifix
[10:13:48] <archivist> ok for manual lathes
[10:13:50] <_methods> way better than a plain old aloris style
[10:13:55] <_methods> yeah it's for manual
[10:15:25] <_methods> i've never seen one here in a shop in the states
[10:15:25] <archivist> the fast change is ok but holder costs is silly
[10:15:31] <_methods> yeah they are spensive
[10:15:41] <_methods> it's swiss lol
[10:15:51] <_methods> they gotta fill their banks somehow
[10:16:18] <_methods> you can only make so much money off watches and yodeling
[10:16:30] <archivist> we had two posts but were fighting over the 4 iirc holders
[10:16:56] <archivist> one on the bosses lathe http://www.collection.archivist.info/archive/DJCPD/PD/2008/2008_10_07_Richards_of_Burton_clockworks/P1010236.JPG
[10:17:02] <_methods> the boring bar attachment looks pretty cool too
[10:17:38] <_methods> the adjustable bar holder
[10:18:16] <_methods> yeah that's it
[10:18:26] <_methods> nice little lathe
[10:18:47] <_methods> i need that collet chuck attachment liek that for mine
[10:19:46] <archivist> on that lathe it is just a drawbar
[10:20:05] <_methods> drawbar collet
[10:20:22] <_methods> need to pick that up for mine
[10:20:23] <archivist> one I used used the same collets http://www.collection.archivist.info/archive/DJCPD/PD/2008/2008_10_07_Richards_of_Burton_clockworks/P1010237.JPG
[10:21:35] <archivist> but did have a settable closer so was better for production
[10:21:48] <_methods> yeah way nicer setup
[10:22:13] <_methods> except the rocker post lol
[10:22:31] <archivist> but is never came home when that site closed, boss kept it
[10:22:53] <_methods> that's agreat lathe i would have too lol
[10:23:17] <archivist> only one schaublin came home an old vm120
[10:23:38] <archivist> oops 120 VM
[11:55:38] <CaptHindsight> the thread about Screw Mapping on the ML is the longest I've seen in such a short time
[11:56:31] <zeeshan> ??
[11:57:05] <archivist> I think mapping the error that way is sometimes the wrong thing to do
[11:57:26] <CaptHindsight> it's like watching IRC in email
[11:57:56] <CaptHindsight> zeeshan: do you subscribe to the ML?
[11:58:01] <zeeshan> whats ml
[11:58:05] <zeeshan> so no :)
[11:58:08] <CaptHindsight> mail list
[11:58:16] <zeeshan> no
[11:58:19] <zeeshan> you guys are old school
[11:58:20] <zeeshan> :-)
[11:59:25] <CaptHindsight> you miss out on lots of fun by just using IRC
[12:00:01] <CaptHindsight> at least we haven't moved to facebook for updates and info
[12:00:21] <zeeshan> i use forums and irc
[12:00:47] <CaptHindsight> the ML goes back to 03'
[12:01:20] <zeeshan> i was looking closely at the wires for my limit switches today
[12:01:25] <zeeshan> none of them are shielded factory
[12:01:45] <zeeshan> i guess 24V signals aren't as susceptible to noise
[12:02:02] <CaptHindsight> are you using 12V or 24V logic? well there you go
[12:02:24] <CaptHindsight> if you have problems with noise you're doing something wrong
[12:02:33] <zeeshan> the glass scales wires are all shielded though
[12:02:38] <zeeshan> i guess cause theyre 5v signals
[12:03:02] <CaptHindsight> I worked on a RF welder once where the noise would effect the 24V logic
[12:03:23] <zeeshan> when we talk about noise
[12:03:30] <zeeshan> are we talking about noise as in..
[12:03:40] <zeeshan> RF spectrum noise?
[12:03:52] <zeeshan> or is it harmonics travelling up from the ground
[12:03:57] <archivist> any noise not just RF
[12:04:03] <jdh> or is it 80's metal?
[12:04:09] <zeeshan> jdh haha
[12:04:21] <zeeshan> well the purpose of shielding for example a wire
[12:04:38] <archivist> spikes can be as bag
[12:04:40] <archivist> bad
[12:04:41] <zeeshan> is to shiled against electromagnetic noise emissions right?
[12:04:48] <zeeshan> *shield
[12:05:06] <zeeshan> so say you're passing a signal wire next to a transformer
[12:05:16] <archivist> hummmmmm
[12:05:21] <jdh> heh
[12:05:33] <zeeshan> the changing mag field will induce a current on the wire?
[12:06:04] <zeeshan> makes sense in my head :P
[12:06:07] <archivist> we had a nois amp that had a toroid next to the pcbs it was a terror to get into spec
[12:06:31] <zeeshan> so its a function of distance too
[12:06:48] <zeeshan> my toriod on the lathe sits right next to the computer motherboard
[12:06:53] <archivist> distance angle and how it is induced
[12:06:54] <zeeshan> im not sure how it's not owning things up
[12:07:01] <CaptHindsight> it was 27MHz 5KW, and 2 feet from the PLC
[12:07:04] <zeeshan> yea i think i remember from physics class
[12:07:12] <zeeshan> 90 degree induces no current
[12:07:19] <zeeshan> 90 degree magnetic field that is
[12:07:45] <jdh> I have a welder that would shake monitors 10ft away
[12:07:54] <zeeshan> CaptHindsight: so i guess i should use my tig welder in hf mode
[12:07:59] <zeeshan> or plasma cutter :-) near the cnc machines!
[12:08:15] <zeeshan> well now that i think about it -- i guess most of the noise will be deflected by the case
[12:08:17] <CaptHindsight> it's a good test of how well you built it
[12:08:21] <zeeshan> kinda like a farady cage
[12:08:37] <zeeshan> cause i vaguely remember that charge travels on the surface
[12:10:01] <zeeshan> https://www.flickr.com/photos/128539016@N05/15201418193/
[12:10:09] <zeeshan> dear pcw sorry to ask you this
[12:10:12] <zeeshan> but where are the grounds?!?!
[12:11:17] <jdh> why do you want grounds
[12:11:35] <zeeshan> the other end of the switches goes to ground
[12:11:37] <zeeshan> or common
[12:11:47] <zeeshan> these are pull up inputs?
[12:12:56] <jdh> oh, I thought they were differential from your +/-, not two switches.
[12:13:11] <zeeshan> i know someones wired a mesa before
[12:13:14] <zeeshan> howd you handle your sensor grounds
[12:13:24] <zeeshan> field power's ground terminal to a ground block?
[12:13:30] <zeeshan> din mounted?
[12:14:13] <jdh> I have a ganged terminal strip of ground
[12:17:57] <pcw_home> +24V power --> switch --> input
[12:18:09] <zeeshan> oh
[12:18:11] <zeeshan> i have it backwards
[12:18:22] <zeeshan> are inputs pull up?
[12:19:13] <pcw_home> inputs pull down (you must drive high)
[12:19:34] <zeeshan> oh
[12:21:16] <zeeshan> so i think i did my e-stop wrong. i currently have it as +24v -> e-stop s/w -> coils for contactors in parallel -> ground
[12:21:25] <zeeshan> how would i extract a signal high from that
[12:21:58] <zeeshan> maybe use the auxillary block on one of thee contactor
[12:22:00] <zeeshan> ?
[12:27:58] <James628> psha.org.ru domain expired.... camview related stuff gone ...at least temporarily
[12:28:38] <CaptHindsight> James628: it's down quite often and camview has no active devs
[12:28:47] <CaptHindsight> people are moving to openCV
[12:31:17] <zeeshan> man i love automationdirect now
[12:31:20] <zeeshan> free shipping to even canada
[12:31:23] <zeeshan> for orders more than 45$
[12:31:30] <zeeshan> they'll also handle the brokerage so you dont get raped over the border
[12:31:38] <zeeshan> and it takes 2 days to get my parts
[12:31:45] <zeeshan> cant ask for anything more,.
[12:32:26] <jdh> I get next day from mcmaster
[12:32:45] <zeeshan> f mcmaster
[12:32:50] <zeeshan> and their anti-canadian behaVIOR
[12:32:50] <jdh> unlike some people taht get same day.
[12:33:03] <jdh> it's a business decision, not personal.
[12:33:22] <jdh> and you mispelled behaviour
[12:33:45] <CaptHindsight> oh a new speel checker!
[12:39:12] <jdh> it was funny, eh?
[12:39:13] <zeeshan> jdh you can spell it both ways
[12:39:34] <zeeshan> i use the queen's english
[12:39:35] <zeeshan> :-)
[12:39:47] <zeeshan> only sometimes!
[12:39:57] <zeeshan> i have to always watch out to write "behaviour"
[12:40:02] <zeeshan> and colour and not color
[12:40:08] <zeeshan> big deal :/
[12:40:21] <CaptHindsight> lift vs elevator?
[12:40:29] <jdh> just amusing that you would put 'anti-canadian' and then spell american behavior
[12:41:02] <zeeshan> jdh it was to grab your attention :p
[12:41:09] <jdh> I don't believe you.
[12:41:13] <jdh> even with the caps
[12:41:19] <zeeshan> it was on purpose!
[12:41:28] <zeeshan> it was an ironic statement
[12:42:04] <jdh> I just my $21,000 worth of software in a tiny box.
[12:42:12] <zeeshan> ?!
[12:42:29] <CaptHindsight> zeeshan: did you see the VW with the radial engine?
[12:42:35] <zeeshan> no
[12:43:03] <jdh> I actually got it yesterday, it was just so small I didn't notice it.
[12:43:13] <CaptHindsight> this one is also great https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uhYEdD94vH0 solenoid V8
[12:43:38] <zeeshan> is that made out of copper
[12:43:38] <CaptHindsight> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yGeSIM_8BHY Radial Engine Bug
[12:43:42] <zeeshan> that cam
[12:43:51] <zeeshan> "homemade from scrap metal and wood, odds and ends, bits and bobs."
[12:43:56] <zeeshan> this guys been robbing copper!
[12:44:08] <zeeshan> that v8 is bad ass
[12:44:29] <CaptHindsight> pointless but fun
[12:44:47] <CaptHindsight> well it does show how a V8 works
[12:44:57] <zeeshan> that radial engine guy
[12:44:59] <zeeshan> is nuts
[12:45:00] <zeeshan> :D
[12:45:02] <CaptHindsight> heh
[12:45:08] <zeeshan> i like it
[12:45:48] <James628> Capt: thanks, any links/docs to openCV related cam solution for linuxcnc?
[12:46:36] <CaptHindsight> James628: it's in the works, you can install openCV and play with the samples and demos
[12:46:57] <CaptHindsight> but nothing integrated yet that ties into HAL
[12:52:38] <_methods> http://hackaday.io/project/2434-microwave-aluminium-printing
[12:52:40] <_methods> hahah
[12:54:03] <_methods> they used alum cans to hold the molten alum......
[12:54:11] <_methods> can't see how that could go wrong
[12:56:16] <CaptHindsight> "and no danger to humans." I lost some brain cells reading that
[13:01:10] <Rab> Microwave furnace, huh?
[13:28:59] <_methods> hehe yeah the ole microwave furnace trick
[13:32:55] <CaptHindsight> http://postimg.org/image/6u1oyorb9/full/ Cincinnati Milacron 10VC-1000 Mesa 7I80, 7I44, 7I49, 7I70, 7I71, 7I73 Boards, Asrock MB, AMD A4 CPU,and a Kingston SSD
[13:36:01] <_methods> nice
[13:37:58] <_methods> big improvement over acramatic lol
[13:38:19] <PCW> I think I would have used different cate5 cable colors
[13:45:28] <Jymmm> CaptHindsight: PANDUIT!!! =)
[13:47:12] <Jymmm> PCW: Nah, I would have just labeled/numbered them
[13:49:53] <Jymmm> CaptHindsight: Looks great!
[13:50:13] <Jymmm> CaptHindsight: What chassis/cabinet are you using?
[14:29:05] <Nick_name> hi there
[14:42:53] <PCW> hey there ho there, you're as welcome as can be
[14:43:24] <PetefromTn_> yes indeedy do...
[16:28:14] <Deejay> gn8
[16:38:41] <andypugh> SpeedEvil: http://bodgesoc.blogspot.co.uk/2014/11/heat-treatment-furnace.html
[16:38:48] <andypugh> I will get the wire in the post tomorrow.
[16:39:45] <Connor> andypugh: What is that for ?
[16:40:18] <andypugh> heat-treatment
[16:41:53] <Connor>  (not too right, breaking the element is annoying)
[16:42:12] <Connor> shouldn't that be: TIGHT ?
[16:45:37] <andypugh> Yes.
[16:45:56] <andypugh> I was typing the blog entry while a seat-supsension spring was soaking.
[16:47:51] <andypugh> psha.org.ru seems to have expired, that’s annoying
[16:48:44] <Jymmm> Wasn't that Alex?
[16:48:52] <Jymmm> alex_joni: yo dude!
[16:49:33] <andypugh> No, psha.org.ru is Pavel Shramov, who had an IRC logger running there.
[16:50:05] <Jymmm> ah, I still blame alex. But I blame him for everything.
[16:50:08] <andypugh> logger[psha] is still running in fact.
[16:50:08] <logger[psha]> andypugh: Log stored at http://psha.org.ru/irc/%23linuxcnc/2014-11-18.html
[16:50:19] <CaptHindsight> Jymmm: not mine, I forget his nick, he retrofits older big iron
[16:50:33] <Jymmm> CaptHindsight: gotcha
[16:55:18] <andypugh> Of course, no sooner had I finshed the furnace but I needed to heat something longer, so I made a temporary and dangerous lash-up: https://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo/3NCEt5OGEPHdjlvJ1mJRO9MTjNZETYmyPJy0liipFm0?feat=directlink
[16:56:18] <andypugh> (I did insulate _one_ of the 240V 100+°C wires :-)
[16:58:26] <Nick001-shop> At least you have a brick wall in case it gets away from you How's your ceiling -)
[16:58:42] <Jymmm> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GzIS_0iSJWY
[16:59:21] <andypugh> There is nothing much flammable in the workshop. I supose the roof joists are, but the tiles are clay, and the walls are brick.
[17:00:26] <Nick001-shop> Your insurance co would be ticked to see that pic
[17:03:55] <andypugh> It was all relatively safe really.
[17:04:09] <andypugh> You should see what I found in the house when I bought it.
[17:04:51] <andypugh> Thus was behind the cooker on a 40A breaker (1mm2 wire) https://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo/aVix6Ieq9A6_sN8cUQsO6NMTjNZETYmyPJy0liipFm0?feat=directlink
[17:05:48] <andypugh> Note how the earth is screwd down onto the insulation, the live is alongside the screw and the neutral was also alongside the screw, and has melted.
[17:06:04] <andypugh> There was something wrong on the other side too.
[17:07:19] <PetefromTn_> jeez man I hate to see pics like that. It is amazing what shitty contractors are capable of sometimes
[17:08:43] <andypugh> I think that was by the previous owner. Even the worst contractor would have swapped the breaker for one matching the wire, I think. (access and visibilty wasn’t great).
[17:09:44] <PetefromTn_> having done a lot of custom cabinetry installations in some older homes I am never surprised at what passes for a PRO electrical installation around here.
[17:10:20] <andypugh> And you run at twice the current too.
[17:10:40] <andypugh> (I am amazed you allow wire-nuts, I just can’t see them being any good at all)
[17:11:12] <PetefromTn_> well I dunno but they are everywhere here
[17:11:23] <DaViruz> we use wire nuts in sweden too. i dont particularly like them, but i've never seen one fail
[17:11:53] <Connor> Wire Nuts, are 100% accepted here..
[17:12:10] <andypugh> We typically use http://www.tlc-direct.co.uk/Images/Products/size_3/ASJ301.JPG (which I am not extatic about either)
[17:12:21] <Connor> My house.. which was built in the 60's had the wires SOLDERED and wrapped in electrical tape.
[17:12:54] <Connor> How would you use that in a wall box if you needed to join more than one wire ?
[17:12:59] <DaViruz> http://www.kjell.com/resources/sv-se/fraga_kjell/hur-funkar-det/elelektronik/starkstroem/15-normcentralen/15-4_klaemmor.jpghttp://www.kjell.com/resources/sv-se/fraga_kjell/hur-funkar-det/elelektronik/starkstroem/15-normcentralen/15-4_klaemmor.jpg
[17:13:03] <DaViruz> i prefer the center one
[17:13:11] <DaViruz> not sure what it's called in english
[17:13:41] <PetefromTn_> https://plus.google.com/photos/108164504656404380542/albums/5747722155741347649/5832691227122998306?pid=5832691227122998306&oid=108164504656404380542 This is so cool man
[17:14:57] <andypugh> PetefromTn_: Full write-up if you want to do one: http://www.cnczone.com/forums/general-metalworking-machines/172314-cnc.html
[17:15:58] <andypugh> DaViruz: I see that the right-hand ones are available in the UK, but I am not sure I trust them.
[17:16:23] <PetefromTn_> yeah at some point I will either find a good deal on a used commercial fourth axis or build something like that. I love that you can tilt it.
[17:16:30] <DaViruz> wago 222 are quite nice also
[17:16:33] <DaViruz> but can be a bit bulky
[17:16:39] <andypugh> Connor: Not sure :-) Typically you join wires in the switch terminals.
[17:17:38] <andypugh> http://www.tlc-direct.co.uk/Manufacturers/Wago_Connectors/Wago/index.html (but I have never seen one used)
[17:20:25] <DaViruz> andypugh: 40A on 1mm2 by the way, is that on a ring?
[17:20:31] <DaViruz> still seems a bit hefty to me
[17:21:05] <DaViruz> i thought uk standard was 32A on 2.5mm2 in a ring
[17:23:02] <andypugh> No, it was a spur dedicated to the cooker. It is sized correctly up to the switch-unit above the counter, but then shrinks to little wire to the cooker (which is only 13A). The breaker is now 16A and the wire is bigger.
[17:23:23] <DaViruz> oh.
[17:24:07] <andypugh> Yes. 32A rings is normal. I don’t think rings are clever either. They are an efficient use of wire, but if the ring is broken then you only have half the capacity you think you have, and you can’t tell there is a problem.
[17:25:16] <DaViruz> i do like the concept of fused plugs though
[17:25:23] <PetefromTn_> http://i.imgur.com/9PWabl5.jpg my personal rifle's Picatinny rail riser..... What do you guys think? any opinions or suggestions? It is not finished but getting there
[17:28:09] <andypugh> It ony needs three setups, you should machine from the bottom too :-=)
[17:28:26] <PetefromTn_> well its funny you mention that
[17:28:43] <PetefromTn_> the bottom will be getting 3d radiused to fit the profile of the receiver which is round
[17:29:12] <PetefromTn_> the part will be drilled and tapped onto the tube in the spaces between the oval holes
[17:30:06] <andypugh> If (as I suspect) you are showing off, why not engrave numbers for each slot? (pointlessly, I know)
[17:30:24] <PetefromTn_> showing off LOL?
[17:30:48] <andypugh> I am guessing it is at least partly a demo piece?
[17:30:53] <PetefromTn_> I am just getting my head wrapped around 3d design work there is no room for showing off
[17:31:23] <PetefromTn_> this will be for my personal rifle which is kinda known for being hard on scopes
[17:31:31] <PetefromTn_> so the picatinny rail profile is necessary
[17:31:54] <andypugh> You need to invent a shock-absorbing rail :-)
[17:31:56] <PetefromTn_> the other thing is it is known for barrel droop and mine exhibits that so it needs to have a droop compensated angle
[17:32:02] <PetefromTn_> already been done
[17:32:18] <PetefromTn_> in fact I just received a first version of one made by RWS
[17:32:28] <PetefromTn_> it rides on rails round rails
[17:32:45] <PetefromTn_> but it is kinda smallish and short
[17:33:00] <PetefromTn_> and it does not give any droop compensation
[17:33:43] <PetefromTn_> this rail is going on my personal rifle as I said but if others like it and want one....so be it LOL
[17:34:23] <andypugh> Did you see my bit of gunsmithing? https://picasaweb.google.com/108164504656404380542/Sniper?authkey=Gv1sRgCJ6K36Pg5_T5ew
[17:34:47] <andypugh> It’s actually a laser rifle, but has a copy of the Lee Enfield bolt and trigger just for fun
[17:34:47] <PetefromTn_> do you like the design? have any criticisms witticisms?
[17:35:20] <PetefromTn_> seriously?
[17:35:34] <PetefromTn_> does it actually fire a laser or is it just a gag...
[17:35:55] <andypugh> It fires an LED, technically.
[17:36:18] <PetefromTn_> man all that work for a fancy laser pointer hehe looks nice tho
[17:36:25] <andypugh> It’s for a friend who plays http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Laser_tag
[17:37:02] <PetefromTn_> aah
[17:37:04] <PetefromTn_> neat
[17:37:24] <PetefromTn_> this is for an overblown pellet rifle for Field Target Competition.
[17:38:24] <andypugh> It’s a sniper rifle, but if you just pull a switch and can spray photons around it doesn’t feel right, so we made it deliberatley single-shot and with a bolt action to re-arm to get the “feel” right.
[17:40:57] <PetefromTn_> Kewl..
[17:41:14] <andypugh> I used to enjoy target shooting as college, but the other guys in the gun club were a bit strange.
[17:41:44] <PetefromTn_> were they strange or were you LOL
[17:43:13] <JT-Shop> what does Twitter do?
[17:43:43] <Jymmm> JT-Shop: You post a message (tweet) and all your followers get it.
[17:44:11] <JT-Shop> so like facebook then
[17:44:22] <Jymmm> JT-Shop: No.
[17:44:37] <Jymmm> JT-Shop: It's like a mass broadcast
[17:45:14] <JT-Shop> what's the purpose of that?
[17:45:34] <Tom_itx> gives you immunity to what you say
[17:45:39] <andypugh> If you have to ask you wouldn’t understand. (I don’t understand)
[17:45:46] <Jymmm> JT-Shop: You could tweet that you have a new product for you spider group
[17:45:55] <JT-Shop> ah ok
[17:46:00] <Jymmm> JT-Shop: Or that the ride has been canceled
[17:46:21] <Tom_itx> or that there's free beer at the man cave this weekend
[17:46:55] <andypugh> Did I mention that a pro photographer I know took some shots of my Ner-a-Car?
[17:47:14] <Tom_itx> not that i recall
[17:47:15] <Jymmm> JT-Shop: tweet ---> FREE BEER AT Tom_itx, Sat 6pm
[17:47:22] <andypugh> A lot more arty than mine: http://www.beautifullytold.com/ner-a-car/
[17:49:04] <DaViruz> that sparkplug connector looks nasty
[17:49:59] <andypugh> It’s Authentic
[17:50:30] <DaViruz> i meant nasty as in easy to get zapped
[17:50:37] <PetefromTn_> nice photos and some great work on the neracar andy
[17:51:21] <DaViruz> i enjoyed reading through the restauration log
[17:52:44] <andypugh> Today I have been heat-treating the seat leaf spring, you can see how it sagged in the photos.
[17:53:20] <andypugh> The saddle was drooping quite a lot when I got home, leading to a tendency to slide foraward, which wasn’t too nice.
[17:53:28] <Tom_itx> was that english made originally?
[17:53:32] <andypugh> Yes.
[17:53:40] * Tom_itx notes the seat was made in usa
[17:53:44] <andypugh> It was a US design, made under license in the UK.
[17:53:54] ChanServ changed topic of #linuxcnc to: LinuxCNC is a linux-based open-source CNC control. | Latest release: 2.6.4 | http://www.linuxcnc.org | this channel is logged
[17:54:05] <andypugh> I couldn’ find the “Gough’s” seat, and some used Messinger.
[17:54:38] <PetefromTn_> http://www.canibeat.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/05/Kam_Waswani_Honda_Ruckus_21.jpg you need to customize it like this hehehe.. Just kidding...
[17:54:39] <andypugh> The UK and US versions of the bike look almost identical, but actually have almost no parts in common.
[17:55:28] <andypugh> JT-Shop: (especially) this has to be the most stupid nod ever: http://minneapolis.craigslist.org/hnp/mcy/4754345589.html]
[17:57:32] <andypugh> What was he thinking? The unpowered extra wheel isn’t even articulated.
[17:58:05] <PetefromTn_> gosh that is a disaster
[17:58:18] <andypugh> (It probabably only corners at all because as the shock compresses the swingarm angle lifts the spare wheel off the ground)
[17:58:25] <PetefromTn_> he must not like turning too well I guess
[17:58:44] <Tom_itx> 51" snow in NY
[17:58:51] <Tom_itx> 70+ expected
[17:59:22] <PetefromTn_> the sad fact is that was once an amazingly fast and nimble superbike. Now it is a laughable joke.
[18:00:20] <andypugh> Well, the Hayabusa was never all that nimble, though it isn’t as fat sa it looks.
[18:00:30] <andypugh> I prefer my R1 thought.
[18:00:55] <andypugh> The weather here is strangelky mild, I haven’t even turned the heating on yet.
[18:01:34] <zeeshan> http://media4.s-nbcnews.com/j/newscms/2014_47/772841/141118-snow-joseph_video-1254_f2d31a4bc378ef6d646a06d327227325.nbcnews-ux-1760-900.jpg
[18:01:34] <zeeshan> wow
[18:01:36] <zeeshan> that a COOL pic
[18:02:05] <JT-Shop> giant wheely bar
[18:02:34] <PetefromTn_> I rode one once and I was actually surprised at how nimble it is.
[18:02:51] <PetefromTn_> The R1 of course is MORE nimble
[18:03:04] <PetefromTn_> have you seen the new Kawasaki H2?
[18:03:15] <andypugh> the turbo? I want one :-)
[18:03:30] <PetefromTn_> its blown but not turbo
[18:03:35] <PetefromTn_> supercharged.
[18:03:43] <PetefromTn_> supposed to have like almost 300 HP
[18:03:48] <PetefromTn_> INSANE
[18:04:21] <PetefromTn_> it has a neat little blower that fits where carbs used to sit
[18:04:54] <PetefromTn_> funny thing is I would probably rather have that lowered scooter I just posted...
[18:05:11] <andypugh> You need help :-)
[18:06:09] <PetefromTn_> probably
[18:06:26] <PetefromTn_> personally despite its obvious power I think it is ugly as shit...
[18:06:42] <andypugh> I think I would want more frame with 300hp, actually
[18:07:23] <PetefromTn_> the new R1M I think it is called looks promising.
[18:09:44] <andypugh> The H2R looks a lot better than the H2, the H2 exhaust is _foul_
[18:10:46] <PetefromTn_> I know it is probably juvenile and sick and I don't understand it either but I actually quite like those custom Ruckus scooters....LOL
[18:13:16] <andypugh> The R1s have been becoming steadily uglier since the 2004 model. When mine dies I expect to just buy another 2004.
[18:13:34] <PetefromTn_> I agree..
[18:13:36] <andypugh> It’s still just about fast enough.
[18:13:45] <PetefromTn_> The first ones were clean lined
[18:13:57] <PetefromTn_> they got more and more annoying as time progressed.
[18:15:09] <PetefromTn_> If I could find another 1992 FZR1000 in great condition like I used to have I would try to buy it.
[18:15:13] <PetefromTn_> http://www.bikez.com/pictures/yamaha/1992/9279_0_3_3_fzr%201000_made%20by%20Tonis.jpg
[18:18:23] <andypugh> One practical advantage the R1 has over the FZR is _really_ good lights.
[18:18:50] <andypugh> I have 4 x HIDs on mine, the road dries out when I turn them on :-)
[18:18:51] <PetefromTn_> there are probably a lot of advantages.......it is basically a COMPLETELY different bike
[18:19:19] <PetefromTn_> I always felt like it was a much more comfortable and forgiving machine than the R1 is.
[18:19:58] <andypugh> The R1 is surprisingly comfortable, better than the FJ1100 on a long ride. But only if the speed is > 30mph
[18:19:59] <PetefromTn_> the R1 is a lot more short, snappy, and lighter than the big fizzer
[18:20:33] <PetefromTn_> really...I would not have thought that. I have ridden quite a few R bikes
[18:20:42] <PetefromTn_> My best friend has an R6
[18:20:57] <andypugh> I find it practical enough to have been my only transport for 11 years.
[18:21:02] <PetefromTn_> we often traded bikes
[18:21:08] <PetefromTn_> WOW
[18:21:15] <andypugh> The R6 is quite a lot smaller.
[18:21:31] <andypugh> 97,500 miles and counting...
[18:21:33] <PetefromTn_> my wife did not like riding on it with me near as much as she did on the big FZR
[18:21:45] <PetefromTn_> are you kidding me?
[18:21:52] <andypugh> Yeah, pillion on the R1 is hopeless.
[18:21:54] <PetefromTn_> that is a TON of miles
[18:22:12] <PetefromTn_> she used to like riding with me on the FZR tho.
[18:22:30] <andypugh> I doubt that many R1s have done more miles, but some probably have.
[18:22:40] <PetefromTn_> I love the Ducati 999 because it is both beautiful and has a nice pass seat
[18:22:57] <PetefromTn_> and I love the looks of the Suzuki TLR1000R
[18:23:07] <PetefromTn_> I got a think for fast twins....
[18:23:09] <PetefromTn_> thing
[18:48:39] <CaptHindsight> https://www.indiegogo.com/projects/sintratec-world-s-first-desktop-laser-sinterer
[18:48:55] <CaptHindsight> https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/0nixg5suFzxzfAk1dw15UmyzUnqCyNPL1a2WA2gWAuFm5nnOFFayUVAu5ZtAY3cXxSXPekdRB_Rt-ZjUBzxmHdEqJQ07-VilMfh5_7-moliKjz7P75XeYbTZIzdtUekuPw
[18:49:32] <LeelooMinai> I already see that adjustable wrench snaping in half:)
[18:51:54] <LeelooMinai> I made version 2 of my limit switches today: https://www.flickr.com/photos/100017731@N03/15823616232/
[18:52:48] <CaptHindsight> they're going for the low hanging fruit, sintering nylon and ABS at low resolution
[18:53:13] <LeelooMinai> Right, but nylon wrench - that's a bit misleading:)
[18:53:28] <CaptHindsight> certainly
[18:53:30] <LeelooMinai> People will get strange ideas...
[18:53:48] <CaptHindsight> it's all rapid prototype that would be faster machined
[18:53:51] <CaptHindsight> http://www.3ders.org/articles/20141118-aachen-university-uses-3d-printer-to-build-a-fully-functional-electric-car-in-just-12-months.html
[18:53:57] <CaptHindsight> took them a year
[18:54:39] <CaptHindsight> they are all monkey see, monkey do. They aren't even trying to make functional parts with low cost materials at high res and high speed.
[18:55:12] <LeelooMinai> A lot of hype and voodoo about 3D p rinters
[18:55:34] <CaptHindsight> everyone seem to just be making a maker quality 3d printer with 20-30 year old tech
[18:55:37] <LeelooMinai> People buy them, print a Yoda head, and that's that
[18:55:45] <CaptHindsight> they are just in it for the quick buck
[18:56:37] <LeelooMinai> There must be a lot of 3d printer projects on kickstarter
[18:56:53] <LeelooMinai> Or similar sites
[18:56:53] <CaptHindsight> http://www.3ders.org/articles/20141117-ester-sls-3d-printer-to-launch-soon-on-indiegogo.html this one is half the others price
[18:57:29] <CaptHindsight> makerslide, cam bearings, timing belts
[18:58:09] <CaptHindsight> http://www.3ders.org/images2014/ester-sls-3d-printer-indiegogo-2.jpg whats this good for?
[18:58:27] <LeelooMinai> Seems like a wheel
[18:58:28] <CaptHindsight> it's not functional
[18:58:55] <CaptHindsight> that one is terrible, makes FDM look good
[18:58:56] <LeelooMinai> Wheel for some robot? :)
[18:58:57] <PetefromTn_> looks like it is made of glued up sand LOL
[18:59:25] <LeelooMinai> Maybe when you clean it up it looks better (?)
[18:59:45] <CaptHindsight> no, that is it sintered
[18:59:58] <CaptHindsight> you'd have to machine it to clean it up
[19:00:08] <CaptHindsight> so why not just machine it?
[19:00:12] <PetefromTn_> almost looks like it needs to be wire brushed and cleaned up LOL
[19:00:24] <PetefromTn_> but then again NOT
[19:00:42] <CaptHindsight> https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/mvBIcSPqHflWAwN3S5pgQIvF7giLKjzMcZovxr8kUPM0wlBIeffY8rYODRakEwce9_2EWIoby4eJO397qZwul6PBVz__NuEmJOfTVQ1zeX2m0Kq40OpsoaA-yX1KULQ_ag
[19:00:48] <CaptHindsight> this one is better
[19:01:14] <CaptHindsight> but it shows how clueless they are by using these models as examples
[19:01:48] <CaptHindsight> print a medical part that is difficult to machine and you only need 100's of
[19:01:56] <PetefromTn_> I love how one of those advertisement photos shows what looks like a bearing
[19:02:15] <LeelooMinai> Maytbe it's supposed to suggest that the printer makes parts that are strong as metal
[19:02:22] <CaptHindsight> SLS can make functional parts
[19:02:36] <PetefromTn_> a bearing?
[19:02:38] <CaptHindsight> LeelooMinai: you think they are trying to get suckers to think that?
[19:02:53] <LeelooMinai> I am sure some people would think that, yes
[19:02:59] <CaptHindsight> not actually say if but get you to assume that
[19:03:01] <LeelooMinai> People in general are pretty clueless and naive
[19:04:30] <CaptHindsight> Exact pricing is not yet fixed but you can expect the price of 1 kg to be below USD 149. for $2/lb resin
[19:05:02] <Jymmm> oh RESIN.... nevermind.
[19:05:04] <CaptHindsight> <$5/kg actual cost
[19:05:48] <CaptHindsight> so 3000% markup
[19:06:00] <CaptHindsight> not bad
[19:25:46] <PetefromTn_> why is it that almost every motorcycle I see on craigslist has NO TITLE on it... Jeez. I mean if you don't have a title how the hell can you register it and ride it let alone sell it?
[19:27:25] <CaptHindsight> maybe you have a title and no bike, now you have a pair
[19:27:36] <PetefromTn_> heh
[19:27:44] <PetefromTn_> a pair of nothing maybe
[19:28:05] <CaptHindsight> it used to be different, I used to restore old cars
[19:28:27] <CaptHindsight> we'd have a box or stack of titles for one complete car
[19:28:54] <PetefromTn_> you mean because it was made up of several different cars?
[19:29:15] <CaptHindsight> now days they treat you like a criminal for that
[19:29:16] <PetefromTn_> usually the frame is what is titled..
[19:29:39] <CaptHindsight> yeah, we'd get entire cars just for parts
[19:29:47] <PetefromTn_> I was watching some youtube videos yesterday of Electric motorcycle conversions
[19:29:49] <Jymmm> and engine
[19:30:32] <PetefromTn_> they are pretty slick some of them now and have decent range for what you would want to ride a sportbike for
[19:30:44] <PetefromTn_> I am sure it would not be cheap to build one tho.
[19:31:16] <PetefromTn_> there is a fellow who made one from a clean Yamaha FZR400 which was quite a nice bike back in the day.
[19:31:46] <CaptHindsight> PetefromTn_: are the bikes without titles 5 cents on the dollar?
[19:32:03] <PetefromTn_> some of the production prototypes of these electric bikes are quite fast and powerful
[19:32:17] <PetefromTn_> actually not generally which is what amazes me...
[19:32:43] <PetefromTn_> I don't know how anyone would buy a bike from someone who technically does not own it for say a grand less than a properly titled one?
[19:32:48] <CaptHindsight> if you've ever been to a harley swap meet....
[19:33:00] <CaptHindsight> you don't ask where they got them from :)
[19:33:14] <PetefromTn_> not a big Harley fan generally...
[19:33:22] <PetefromTn_> they are nice just not my style...
[19:33:39] <CaptHindsight> me neither, noisy bumbpy things
[19:33:59] <PetefromTn_> If I was ever to spend a big chunk of change on a bike it would undoubtedly be a Ducati or Aprilia
[19:34:56] <PetefromTn_> I do appreciate some of the custom ones tho. Lots of work and design ideas in them that is hard to deny
[19:35:10] <PetefromTn_> I also rode a Buell once that was interesting.
[19:46:52] <zeeshan> http://i.imgur.com/SlS3JbM.png
[19:46:52] <zeeshan> wow
[19:46:56] <zeeshan> buffalo got screwed hard
[19:47:28] <zeeshan> https://twitter.com/NWSChicago/status/534747305769836544
[19:47:29] <zeeshan> moar
[19:47:46] <CaptHindsight> 2ft + 2 more ft
[19:47:56] <zeeshan> they got 72"
[19:48:03] <zeeshan> or something
[19:48:35] <Tom_itx> they could have a right good snowball fight
[19:50:33] <CaptHindsight> glad I'm not on 90 this week
[20:01:14] <PetefromTn_> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5qanlirrRWs#t=679 Damn that is some serious driving...
[20:01:41] <zeeshan> hes got skill
[20:01:42] <zeeshan> :D
[20:02:18] <PetefromTn_> Mad gnarly hairy skills....LOL
[20:02:42] <zeeshan> http://www.wcvb.com/weather/uncut-timelapse-video-shows-wall-of-snow-creeping-into-buffalo-new-york/29803812?utm_source=hootsuite&utm_medium=facebook&utm_campaign=wcvb%2Bchannel%2B5%2Bboston
[20:02:44] <zeeshan> holy shit
[20:08:24] <zeeshan> hey guys im having trouble cokming up with a routine for my power drawbar routine
[20:08:40] <zeeshan> when tool change command button is pressed in linuxcnc
[20:08:51] <zeeshan> it turns on the hydraulic pump for 30 seconds
[20:09:16] <zeeshan> it also takes the input from the pressure switch.
[20:09:34] <zeeshan> so when i press the "tool change requestion button" this is what happens.
[20:11:20] <zeeshan> tool change request (momentary button NO) -> 7i77 input -> check vfd is on? ok. check pressure is reached? ok. check if spindle is off? ok. check if m06 g-code is active? ok. -> when all conditions are met energize solenoid for hydraulic pressure to drawbar
[20:12:04] <zeeshan> my concern is it doesnt seem safe
[20:12:09] <zeeshan> because it's all done through linuxcnc
[20:14:03] <zeeshan> all it takes is a noise spike
[20:14:18] <zeeshan> on the too change request input
[20:14:23] <zeeshan> and it seems like things can go haywire
[20:14:45] <zeeshan> (these are 24vdc signals)
[20:14:48] <PetefromTn_> does your machine have an automatic tool changer?
[20:14:56] <zeeshan> yes
[20:15:06] <zeeshan> well by automatic
[20:15:11] <zeeshan> i dont mean it loads it by itself
[20:15:13] <zeeshan> its a power drawbar
[20:15:15] <zeeshan> hydraulic
[20:15:35] <zeeshan> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n39CqxrhkVg&list=UUy-Z-COl0WvPmSLXMOvtedg
[20:16:05] <PetefromTn_> then the answer is no... so if the spike you are talking about happens all that will occur is that the hydraulic pump will cycle. Nothing happens until YOU press the power drawbar button no?
[20:16:39] <zeeshan> check that video out to see the interface
[20:17:22] <zeeshan> hmm..
[20:17:30] <zeeshan> im worried about a spike on the solenoid signal wire
[20:17:43] <zeeshan> or for some reason 7i77 goes haywire
[20:17:49] <zeeshan> and changes the states of the output
[20:18:09] <zeeshan> cause i was planning to have an output directly from 7i77 to the solenoid
[20:18:16] <zeeshan> so i dunno if there is a computer freeze
[20:18:23] <zeeshan> and for some reason the 7i77's outputs change state
[20:18:31] <zeeshan> it might trigger the solenoid while the spinddle is running
[20:18:34] <zeeshan> that could be dangerous :/
[20:18:40] <PetefromTn_> why would you want anything but a physical button to release the tool?
[20:18:47] <zeeshan> well the idea was
[20:18:50] <zeeshan> to "add safety"
[20:18:58] <PetefromTn_> my machine has a disable while the spindle is in motion
[20:18:59] <zeeshan> for some reason i decide to press the physical button while the spindle is running
[20:19:02] <zeeshan> it wont let me
[20:19:07] <zeeshan> (cause it'll know the spindle is running)
[20:19:26] <PetefromTn_> you can push the button all you want and nothing happens
[20:19:32] <zeeshan> okay
[20:19:36] <zeeshan> so you have some sort of physical relayu
[20:19:40] <zeeshan> that interfaces with the spindle vfd?
[20:19:48] <PetefromTn_> it also does not work unless there is sufficient air pressure in the system.
[20:19:52] <zeeshan> which stops the power drawbar from working?
[20:19:55] <PetefromTn_> yeah
[20:19:58] <zeeshan> hmm
[20:20:01] <zeeshan> excellent way of doing it
[20:20:23] <PetefromTn_> works fine so far....
[20:20:37] <zeeshan> most vfds have these aux relays builtin
[20:20:41] <zeeshan> that are NC or NO
[20:20:42] <PetefromTn_> and I have accidentally pressed it before ;)
[20:20:52] <zeeshan> depending on a condition met in the VFD
[20:21:07] <zeeshan> so i would wire my 24vdc solenoid wire
[20:21:09] <zeeshan> through that relay
[20:21:13] <zeeshan> and through my physical switch
[20:21:20] <zeeshan> PetefromTn_: it happens
[20:21:27] <zeeshan> especially if i'm not paying attention
[20:21:28] <zeeshan> i could trigger it
[20:22:10] <PetefromTn_> it is a neccessary safety to be sure
[20:26:28] <zeeshan> you know i think ill do it like this
[20:26:48] <zeeshan> spindle is on && pressure is reached ===> output from 7i77 to energize relay
[20:27:02] <zeeshan> then solenoid switch goes through the latch of the relay
[20:27:30] <zeeshan> cause then theres no way a comptuer freeze can ever press that switch
[20:27:44] <zeeshan> *energize
[20:38:12] <zeeshan> PetefromTn_: still there?
[20:38:22] <PetefromTn_> yeah
[20:38:24] <PetefromTn_> sorry
[20:38:28] <PetefromTn_> watching a youtube vid
[20:38:30] <zeeshan> haha
[20:38:37] <zeeshan> dude you worked on your mill a lot
[20:38:45] <zeeshan> can you help me ensure i have covered all my i/o
[20:38:48] <PetefromTn_> not enought it's still not done
[20:38:50] <zeeshan> so far i have all my limit switches
[20:38:57] <zeeshan> and e-stop signal
[20:39:11] <zeeshan> and now that "spindle is on & pressure is reached" output
[20:39:18] <zeeshan> anything else common that im overlooking?
[20:39:25] <PetefromTn_> homes?
[20:39:34] <zeeshan> limits are also homes
[20:39:36] <zeeshan> the +'s
[20:39:41] <PetefromTn_> ok
[20:40:10] <PetefromTn_> do you have a servo enable button
[20:40:19] <zeeshan> no
[20:40:24] <PetefromTn_> I am still needing to add a lot of buttons to my panel
[20:40:31] <zeeshan> i do that through the machine power button in the interface
[20:40:33] <PetefromTn_> I am using a keyboard for most of it.
[20:40:46] <zeeshan> same here man
[20:40:48] <zeeshan> it keeps wiring simple
[20:40:52] <PetefromTn_> I have a button for jogging off a limit
[20:40:57] <zeeshan> if anything i'll do a usb pendant
[20:41:12] <PetefromTn_> yeah but I want to add a bunch more stuff to the pendant
[20:41:20] <zeeshan> can't you bypass the limit switch
[20:41:22] <zeeshan> in linuxcnc?
[20:41:26] <PetefromTn_> like axes and increment selection
[20:41:53] <zeeshan> i forget how it is on my lathe right now
[20:41:58] <PetefromTn_> I don't know this is a physical electrical bypass that lets me enable servos in the event of a limit trip
[20:42:18] <PetefromTn_> so I can jog off them
[20:42:21] <zeeshan> hmm
[20:42:24] <PetefromTn_> should NEVER be needed
[20:42:26] <zeeshan> i totally forgot how it's working on my lathe
[20:42:37] <zeeshan> i dont have an enable button
[20:42:37] <PetefromTn_> as long as the machine is homed out upon startup
[20:42:54] <zeeshan> OH
[20:42:56] <zeeshan> thats how im doing it
[20:43:00] <PetefromTn_> I want to try to setup an auto homing routine upon startup
[20:43:05] <zeeshan> it wont let you trip the limit switches
[20:43:07] <zeeshan> cause of the soft limits
[20:43:11] <PetefromTn_> yes
[20:43:26] <zeeshan> well you have limit switches wired
[20:43:29] <zeeshan> so it will be really easy for you
[20:43:35] <zeeshan> just dont be a moron like me
[20:43:41] <zeeshan> and destroy your limit switch on the first go
[20:43:46] <zeeshan> cause you got the direction wrong in the ini file
[20:43:47] <zeeshan> haha
[20:43:58] <PetefromTn_> damn that sucks
[20:44:05] <PetefromTn_> my machine has both limits and homes
[20:44:10] <zeeshan> i dont mean to sound like im whining
[20:44:12] <PetefromTn_> so does the new CNC lathe I bought
[20:44:17] <zeeshan> but those instructions are not really user friendly
[20:44:19] <zeeshan> they're not clear
[20:44:22] <zeeshan> clear as mud :)
[20:44:31] <zeeshan> nice man
[20:44:42] <zeeshan> to be honest with you
[20:44:44] <zeeshan> my machines a bit weird
[20:44:45] <PetefromTn_> most of the programming side of this stuff is clear as mud to me so don't feel bad.
[20:44:52] <zeeshan> on the Y axis i see + and - limit switches
[20:44:57] <zeeshan> but i also see a proximity switch
[20:45:02] <zeeshan> which i am assuming is a home swiotch
[20:45:08] <PetefromTn_> probably
[20:45:11] <zeeshan> but i dont see prox switches onthe Z and X
[20:45:20] <zeeshan> unless theyre hiding somewhere
[20:45:34] <PetefromTn_> is there multiple wires coming off the other axes
[20:45:49] <zeeshan> ill check next time im in the garage
[20:45:54] <zeeshan> it too cold to go in there :-(
[20:45:56] <zeeshan> need the heat on
[20:46:23] <zeeshan> these really shitty omron limit switches seem to hold 0.0001"
[20:46:27] <zeeshan> repeatability
[20:46:29] <PetefromTn_> most machines this large have both limits and homes
[20:46:37] <zeeshan> on the lathe
[20:47:23] <zeeshan> any other i/o
[20:49:28] <PetefromTn_> dunno
[20:49:43] <PetefromTn_> does your machine have any sort of Prox switches on the spindle etc?
[20:49:52] <zeeshan> shit
[20:49:56] <zeeshan> i totally forgot about those
[20:49:56] <zeeshan> haha
[20:50:06] <zeeshan> the spindle encoder.
[20:50:26] <zeeshan> i think ill put that directly to the encoder inputs
[20:50:28] <zeeshan> on the 7i77
[20:50:31] <zeeshan> ill be using all 6!
[20:50:35] <zeeshan> 5 for each axis and 1 for spindle
[20:51:20] <PetefromTn_> that is a five axis machine?
[20:51:32] <zeeshan> NO
[20:51:35] <zeeshan> er sorry caps
[20:51:41] <zeeshan> (using autocad rofl)
[20:52:01] <zeeshan> its 3 axis but ill be throwing a rotary table for a and c axis
[20:52:23] <PetefromTn_> oh so 3+2
[20:52:25] <zeeshan> yes
[20:52:32] <PetefromTn_> interesting
[20:52:45] <PetefromTn_> I would not even know where to begin to program a machine like that.
[20:53:07] <zeeshan> i did a bit of 5 axis programming using mastercam for a plastic injectin place i worked at
[20:53:13] <zeeshan> like for a couple weeks
[20:53:16] <zeeshan> it was confusing as hell
[20:53:33] <zeeshan> like i dont know if you do this
[20:53:40] <zeeshan> but after your spit out some code from CAM
[20:53:46] <zeeshan> you read over it to make sure its sane
[20:53:56] <zeeshan> with 5 axis, it takes way too long
[20:54:00] <PetefromTn_> I really want to get a fourth axis built or bought so I can start playing with it and learn
[20:54:03] <zeeshan> its a mess
[20:54:12] <PetefromTn_> I usually just use a simulator
[20:54:44] <PetefromTn_> then run with movements slowed down to a safe level upon first run of virgin code
[20:55:15] <zeeshan> ah
[20:55:25] <zeeshan> sometimes i dont trust cam cause if the post processor is messed
[20:55:28] <zeeshan> it'll spit out junk code
[20:56:07] <PetefromTn_> yeah which again is why I run slow the first time so I can stop it before bad stuff happens
[20:56:23] <zeeshan> <-- to lazy
[20:56:24] <zeeshan> :D
[20:56:51] <PetefromTn_> the sim should show what is going on even if the post processor is messed up...
[20:57:52] <zeeshan> well you know something like circ interpolation modes?
[20:57:57] <zeeshan> theyre different between machines\?
[20:58:01] <zeeshan> some like the quadrant style input
[20:58:03] <zeeshan> some like full circle
[20:58:12] <zeeshan> if you're lucky you get an error in the machine
[20:58:16] <zeeshan> but sometimes it runs
[20:58:25] <zeeshan> so simulator shows it correctly
[20:58:27] <zeeshan> but machine does something else
[20:59:02] <PetefromTn_> sure but that kind of issue should have been proven out on much simpler code beforehand
[20:59:20] <zeeshan> basically youre saying i worry too much
[20:59:20] <zeeshan> :)
[20:59:35] <PetefromTn_> I think we all know that here :D
[20:59:49] <zeeshan> dude seriously before school and stuff
[20:59:52] <PetefromTn_> that is not necessarily a bad thing really
[21:00:01] <zeeshan> when i used to work on my car, i didnt take things seriously
[21:00:12] <zeeshan> when i look at some of my old pics, im like "WTF"
[21:00:13] <zeeshan> haha
[21:00:39] <zeeshan> now i stress myself out :/
[21:01:16] <PetefromTn_> honestly when it comes to machines I am a bit overly cautious, I would probably get a lot more done if I were a bit more adventurous.
[21:01:50] <zeeshan> hey dude
[21:01:52] <PetefromTn_> but my own machines I have far too much invested in them to take silly chances and I don't like crashes they scare the shit out of me.
[21:01:56] <zeeshan> all you need to do is build yourself a pipe machine
[21:01:59] <zeeshan> like pipe man
[21:02:13] <zeeshan> yea man
[21:02:21] <zeeshan> like i dont wanna burn a VFD for example
[21:02:24] <zeeshan> that'll cause a fortune to replace
[21:02:40] <zeeshan> and i also dont wanna do extra work
[21:02:44] <zeeshan> you know what the worst thing is?
[21:02:48] <zeeshan> youre done wiring everything
[21:02:58] <zeeshan> and you realize you forgot to make a hole in the enclosure to pass a wire for something
[21:03:05] <zeeshan> and then you need to drill that crap while components are still in
[21:03:08] <zeeshan> and deal with the chips
[21:03:17] <zeeshan> that drives me insane
[21:03:21] <PetefromTn_> I have done that several times
[21:03:31] <cnc4clay> H
[21:03:37] <PetefromTn_> I had to tape plastic sheet over my drives
[21:03:54] <zeeshan> haha
[21:03:59] <zeeshan> it sucks man!!
[21:04:02] <zeeshan> i did similar
[21:04:22] <zeeshan> this time im building everything on a mounting plate
[21:04:35] <zeeshan> and keeping all communication wires between components on it
[21:04:43] <zeeshan> anything that goes external has a plug
[21:05:04] <zeeshan> so it'd be a matter of disconnecting external plugs and removing 4 plates to remove the entire assembly
[21:05:11] <zeeshan> (at least thats the plan)
[21:05:17] <PetefromTn_> that is not really practical for my machine but it would be nice
[21:05:20] <cnc4clay> I just finished installing the binary.hybrid.iso for 6.4 wheezy. It looked okay when I ran linuxcnc with the simulation but then I ran apt-get update and upgrade and linuxcnc doesn't work. What happened?
[21:06:31] <cradek> perhaps share more about "doesn't work"
[21:07:27] <cnc4clay> The splash page came up and then a few other quick pages and after about 40 seconds a 15 page listing was produced.
[21:08:37] <cradek> it can be hard to spot the actual error sometimes. if in doubt, put the entire contents of the error listing on a pastebin site
[21:09:06] <cnc4clay> I have never done that. What do I do?
[21:09:47] <cradek> go to a site like http://pastebin.ca and paste the text in the box. then when you submit it, you'll get a url. copy that url here.
[21:15:36] <Tom_itx> package manager pointing to the right update page?
[21:17:39] <cradek> if he installed the iso, the sources are absolutely set up right
[21:18:15] <cradek> looking at the error message has got to be our best strategy here :-)
[21:24:03] <zeeshan> http://i.imgur.com/kYpZaCk.png
[21:24:11] <zeeshan> can someone please help me make sense of this manual
[21:24:21] <zeeshan> its saying both the output and input need a power supply?!?!
[21:24:33] <zeeshan> lime on the input connector "up means 5V supply"
[21:24:38] <zeeshan> 0V i guess is ground.
[21:24:45] <zeeshan> but what about on the output side?
[21:24:54] <zeeshan> whats the diff between up and sensor up
[21:25:15] <zeeshan> and why do both sides of the circuit need power?!
[21:26:55] <cnc4clay> +cradek: You can look at: http://pastebin.ca/2874699 for the listing. Thanks
[21:28:08] <cradek> python: swrast/s_renderbuffer.c:588: map_attachment: Assertion `srb->Map' failed.
[21:28:13] <cradek> looks like your opengl is broken
[21:28:29] <cradek> did you change anything about the video driver?
[21:29:09] <cradek> [ 27.120010] render error detected, EIR: 0x00000010
[21:30:03] <cnc4clay> Between running linuxcnc the first time when it worked and the second time were I got the error I only did the update and upgrade.
[21:31:13] <cradek> I wonder if that might be a coincidence
[21:31:46] <cradek> google isn't telling me much - people in 2010-2011 suggesting it's a hardware problem
[21:32:00] <cradek> can you just slap a different video card in?
[21:33:04] <cradek> if you can reproduce this consistently, it would be very interesting to know what particular package upgrade breaks it
[21:35:17] <cradek> when I boot live and do an upgrade, I don't see anything related to opengl, X, or linuxcnc
[21:35:43] <cradek> I doubt the pattern you've identified is really the pattern you'll find is true, given more experimentation
[21:37:10] <cradek> http://pastie.org/9729206
[21:37:50] <cradek> you might try booting from power off, vs. rebooting, or similar
[21:39:34] <cnc4clay> up
[21:42:50] <cnc4clay> I just downloaded the update upgrade listing to pastebin.ca/2874732. That may help. No, I don't have a video card to put in. The computer is an old Dell 2400 if that helps.
[21:44:15] <cradek> I can virtually promise that those packages are not breaking linuxcnc or opengl
[21:44:32] <cnc4clay> I
[21:44:36] <cradek> please experiment some more and see if you can figure out a different pattern
[21:45:24] <cnc4clay> The url for the listing from update and upgrade is pastebin.ca/2874732
[21:45:44] <cradek> yep saw it
[21:45:56] <cradek> brb
[21:47:43] <cnc4clay> I will reinstall and try another sim template and work with it for a longer time and not do an update/upgrade. Thanks for your help as I didn't know where to start!
[21:48:35] <renesis> 07:07:49 < zeeshan> and why do both sides of the circuit need power?!
[21:49:13] <renesis> zeeshan: could be for different voltage levels, for isolation, is maybe just an opto power pin breakout
[21:50:47] <renesis> and it might be a two terminal sensor, resistive or a switch or something
[21:53:08] <renesis> and before you bitch me out about making too many assumptions, you really need a circuit diagram, or related texts, or relavent specs to figure any of this out with any certainty, pin diagram = not enough information
[21:54:23] <cradek> cnc4clay: welcome, please report back what you find
[22:02:48] <XXCoder> interestijng page http://www.survivorlibrary.com/?page_id=1014
[22:11:17] <zeeshan> renesis: it is all they give
[22:12:15] <Tom_itx> is this an encoder?
[22:12:19] <zeeshan> yea
[22:12:57] <Tom_itx> which connector pair do you have?
[22:13:05] <Tom_itx> round or rectangular
[22:13:13] <zeeshan> round from encoders
[22:13:20] <zeeshan> 9 pin
[22:14:15] <renesis> english is not the documents first language
[22:14:22] <zeeshan> haha yea
[22:14:29] <zeeshan> heidenhain = german i think
[22:14:54] <renesis> germans like to !
[22:15:59] <zeeshan> http://www.heidenhain.com/fileadmin/pdb/media/img/582_761-20.pdf
[22:16:01] <zeeshan> this is the full pdf..
[22:19:07] <zeeshan> https://www.flickr.com/photos/128539016@N05/15204763603/
[22:19:08] <zeeshan> image of board
[22:19:28] <renesis> shit goes from 1vpp analog signals to 5v digital signals, splitting analog and digital supplies is pretty common
[22:19:49] <zeeshan> i have idp101
[22:19:54] <zeeshan> so input is 11 uA
[22:20:17] <renesis> are their chips on both sides
[22:20:21] <zeeshan> no
[22:20:22] <renesis> there
[22:20:23] <zeeshan> one side only
[22:20:35] <renesis> well then its prob not isolated
[22:22:04] <Tom_itx> so your encoder plugs in the input side and you use the output side to linuxcnc?
[22:22:20] <zeeshan> Tom_itx: yes thats the only logical solution i think
[22:22:27] <zeeshan> cause the analog signal if you look in that manual
[22:22:28] <Tom_itx> that's what it shows
[22:22:28] <zeeshan> is on the input side
[22:22:39] <zeeshan> it goes from a 10 pin input
[22:22:41] <zeeshan> to 12pin output
[22:22:47] <zeeshan> i just dont see how the power hooks up
[22:22:55] <renesis> yeah the encoder outputs 1vpp, this turns it into 5v pulses
[22:23:01] <zeeshan> renesis:
[22:23:02] <zeeshan> thats the other model
[22:23:04] <zeeshan> i have idp 101
[22:23:08] <zeeshan> its 11 uApp
[22:23:11] <Tom_itx> 5v on pin3
[22:23:24] <renesis> same shit, its an analog sine
[22:23:29] <zeeshan> Tom_itx: yes but if you look on the output
[22:23:33] <zeeshan> pin 12 also have a 5v
[22:23:36] <Tom_itx> GND on 4
[22:23:39] <Tom_itx> so?
[22:23:39] <zeeshan> so i dont understand why they have 2 5vs?
[22:23:50] <zeeshan> and whats sensor 5v?
[22:23:51] <Tom_itx> maybe it passes thru
[22:23:59] <renesis> yeah i was going to say test
[22:23:59] <Tom_itx> power to the sensor
[22:24:18] <zeeshan> okay so i should check for continuity
[22:24:21] <zeeshan> between both the "ups"
[22:24:24] <renesis> connect the output side, see if theirs power on the input connector
[22:24:26] <Tom_itx> i would
[22:24:38] <renesis> might be a diode or a vreg
[22:24:50] <zeeshan> its a little weird that the sensor 5v
[22:24:56] <zeeshan> is on the output (digital side)
[22:24:58] <zeeshan> that makes 0 sense to me.
[22:25:18] <zeeshan> i finally got my multimeter
[22:25:23] <zeeshan> so ican finally PROBE
[22:25:54] <renesis> how is it weird, its an analog supply
[22:27:15] <Tom_itx> they could separate the supplies for noise reasons
[22:28:15] <renesis> yeah on one encoder connector it looks like they have isolated shielding
[22:28:54] <renesis> on the other, looks like they have isolated sensor and digital power
[22:29:30] <Tom_itx> similar to split supplies on mesa cards where you have field power
[22:30:30] <renesis> most mixed analog digital ic have split supplies
[22:31:11] <renesis> zeeshan: yours might not even use the Sensor Up pin
[22:31:50] <Tom_itx> what's the pinout on the sensor itself?
[22:33:00] <renesis> theres lots of possibilities
[22:33:31] <renesis> Up on the input is connected to Sensor Up on the output
[22:34:14] <renesis> Up on the input is connected to Up on the output, and Sensor Up is not used on your model
[22:34:59] <renesis> Up on the input is connected to Up on the output, and Sensor Up is used for the analog circuitry on the sensor side of the PCBA
[22:35:12] <cnc4clay> +cradek: I did a new install and linuxcnc worked so I exited it and restarted it and, you guessed it, after a few minutes it locked up. I did a reboot and after about 5 minutes it locked up. So it is another problem not linuxcnc. The computer worked fine with mythbuntu!
[22:35:56] <renesis> zeeshan: theres an email and phone number on the bottom
[22:42:03] <os1r1s> Tom_itx: You use a taig or a sherline, right?
[22:45:46] <cradek> cnc4clay: I wonder if you might have a heat problem
[22:46:09] <zeeshan> okay
[22:46:18] <zeeshan> so when i probe between 1b on the input
[22:46:20] <cradek> old machines collect goop in their heat sinks and fans
[22:46:25] <zeeshan> to 2a, 2b, 1a, 1b on output
[22:46:28] <zeeshan> i get continuity
[22:46:30] <zeeshan> wut\!
[22:46:34] <zeeshan> makes no sense :P
[22:46:47] <zeeshan> why is there continuity between 0V and 5v!!
[22:48:41] <renesis> cap
[22:48:55] <renesis> must suck to know less about this shit than a moron
[22:49:31] <zeeshan> ok thanks for your help.
[22:49:42] <zeeshan> ill follow the traces myself and not require your help anymore
[22:49:44] <zeeshan> cu!
[22:49:49] <renesis> bye
[22:50:08] <zeeshan> obv you couldnt figure it out either
[22:50:12] <zeeshan> so that makes 2 morons
[22:50:15] <renesis> i just said cap
[22:50:50] <renesis> initially, you always get continuity on a drained supply
[22:51:29] <renesis> how long depends on how big the cap is, and how drained, meter just see current happened and calls it continuous
[22:52:15] <zeeshan> lol the traces
[22:52:20] <zeeshan> on the other side make it so easy to see whats going on
[22:52:46] <zeeshan> the traces from 1b @ input side to 2b, 2a @ output
[22:52:48] <zeeshan> are connected
[22:52:49] <renesis> yeah does not look like a complicated pcba
[22:52:55] <zeeshan> duhhh
[22:55:07] <zeeshan> okay this is easy
[22:55:35] <zeeshan> 1a input (0v) is connected to 1a and 1b on ouput
[22:55:48] <zeeshan> everything else i dont care about
[22:56:10] <zeeshan> i think the reason there is a sensor up and sensor 0v to begin with
[22:56:18] <zeeshan> is because the idp181 model requires it
[22:56:22] <zeeshan> but mine doesnt use it
[22:56:37] <renesis> are they continuous
[22:56:45] <zeeshan> the traceS?
[22:56:59] <zeeshan> yes
[22:57:03] <zeeshan> theres no components in between
[22:57:04] <renesis> no the sensor uP on the in and output
[22:57:07] <renesis> at the pin header
[22:57:16] <renesis> then yeah, you dont have that
[22:57:32] <renesis> you have isolated shields, which is cool
[22:57:58] <zeeshan> on the input side?
[22:58:38] <renesis> the shield pins are prob gonnected to ground at the pcba connector
[22:58:42] <zeeshan> the pin 1a (input) which labels "inside sheild"
[22:58:57] <renesis> and then in the encoder they would be connected to shields that dont share the signal ground
[22:59:12] <zeeshan> goes to the raytheon rc4157m t9728 chip
[22:59:55] <zeeshan> on the datasheet
[22:59:58] <zeeshan> that pin is "-Vs"
[23:00:27] <renesis> its maybe negative rail
[23:01:03] <renesis> and inside shield might be the negative rail in the encoder
[23:01:28] <zeeshan> il need to check that
[23:01:29] <renesis> it says Vpp, which usually suggests gnd biased AC
[23:01:44] <renesis> which prob means negative rails
[23:01:49] <zeeshan> i was thinking up and 0v were the sensor power stuff
[23:02:02] <zeeshan> and inside shield was the sheild on the cable
[23:02:13] <renesis> -Vs might just be an analog ground
[23:02:21] <zeeshan> yea i am pretty sure its just a ground
[23:02:34] <renesis> and the raytheon chip just has it on a reference input
[23:03:16] <Tom_itx> os1r1s, sherline
[23:03:35] <renesis> http://www.mouser.com/ProductDetail/Fairchild-Semiconductor/RC4157M/?qs=DBUMZ2Yty90uFehn0%2FEnoA%3D%3D
[23:03:39] <zeeshan> im looking at the block diagram
[23:03:39] <os1r1s> Tom_itx: Working on a toolchanger you might be interested in.
[23:03:45] <zeeshan> pin 11, aka -vs
[23:03:50] <zeeshan> is the reference pin like youre saying
[23:03:55] <renesis> quad amp, pretty fast, +/-20V
[23:03:56] <zeeshan> negative side
[23:04:10] <renesis> it prob has a negative rail
[23:04:26] <zeeshan> http://www.mouser.com/ds/2/149/Fairchild_datasheet-20-364953.pdf
[23:04:28] <zeeshan> page 7
[23:04:29] <renesis> prob has a >5 positive rail too
[23:04:32] <zeeshan> you can see pin 11 on the right
[23:05:23] <renesis> thats not a reference pin thats a psu pin
[23:05:32] <renesis> normal quad amp pinout
[23:05:56] <renesis> notice it doesnt exist in the block diagram
[23:05:58] <zeeshan> fak op amps
[23:06:05] <zeeshan> i dont get em
[23:06:08] <renesis> wow
[23:08:48] <zeeshan> im looking at the pinout from the glass scales
[23:08:53] <zeeshan> pin 9 literally says "Shield"
[23:08:59] <renesis> that shit has 5V of dropout voltage with a 15V bipolar supply
[23:09:05] <zeeshan> pin 4 is ground
[23:09:17] <zeeshan> renesis: you're speaking alien to me
[23:09:18] <renesis> of the opamp
[23:09:59] <LeelooMinai> I wonder why most of the VFDs on aliezpress are 220V at least
[23:10:00] <renesis> that opamp wont work with 5V supplies
[23:10:14] <zeeshan> renesis: ??
[23:10:18] <renesis> so theres a boost supply somewhere
[23:10:19] <zeeshan> heidenhain's spec says use 5v
[23:10:41] <LeelooMinai> zeeshan: DO you have some VFD for your machine?
[23:10:42] <renesis> well then the raytheon chip is diff
[23:10:48] <zeeshan> LeelooMinai: 3
[23:11:02] <renesis> zeeshan: whats vs+ connected to
[23:11:09] <LeelooMinai> zeeshan: How did you get them?
[23:11:36] <zeeshan> internets ebay
[23:11:39] <zeeshan> and ex-boss
[23:11:59] <LeelooMinai> Hmm... Chinese ones are almost all 220V
[23:12:12] <zeeshan> renesis: i cant tell
[23:12:15] <zeeshan> its hard to follow that trace
[23:12:22] <zeeshan> cause it flips over using pads
[23:12:24] <zeeshan> a bunch of times
[23:12:32] <renesis> what
[23:12:33] <zeeshan> but idid notice something else
[23:12:42] <renesis> are their coils on the board
[23:12:54] <zeeshan> theres a trace going from 2b aka 0v on input
[23:13:04] <zeeshan> to 1a
[23:13:09] <zeeshan> aka inside shield
[23:13:16] <zeeshan> its a small trace right at the connector
[23:13:43] <zeeshan> LeelooMinai: what hp
[23:14:13] <LeelooMinai> zeeshan: Well, you know, if I want to use normal socket I am limited to what, 15A or so, so 1600 watt
[23:14:13] <zeeshan> renesis: so that pretty much means
[23:14:15] <zeeshan> theyre both ground :P
[23:14:27] <zeeshan> LeelooMinai: so about 1hp then
[23:14:41] <LeelooMinai> zeeshan: Isn't that 2?
[23:14:47] <zeeshan> no
[23:15:02] <zeeshan> when you consider power factor correct
[23:15:05] <zeeshan> correction
[23:15:09] <renesis> 1hp = ~750W
[23:15:12] <zeeshan> you can only drive a 3 phase 1hp motor
[23:15:21] <zeeshan> when you use a 120vac single phase input
[23:15:41] <zeeshan> 1hp 220v motor that is
[23:15:45] <LeelooMinai> Well, it's supposed to be for a spindle
[23:16:13] <LeelooMinai> Not sure how to match all of this - normal 110V socket and 2.2 kW spindle
[23:16:15] <zeeshan> cheapest new one i could find was this one:
[23:16:34] <renesis> zeeshan: then theres either a boost supply, or they raytheon and fairchild parts are not equiv
[23:16:43] <zeeshan> renesis: prolly not equiv
[23:16:45] <zeeshan> and theres no coils
[23:16:47] <renesis> that opamp in the datasheet does not run at 5v
[23:16:58] <cnc4clay> +crandek: The computer had been working continuously for the past 3 months without a problem. I will take a look. If that doesn't solve it I will try installing just wheezy and see if that works. Take care and will check it tomorrow. Thanks
[23:17:04] <zeeshan> LeelooMinai: http://www.factorymation.com/Products/FM50_115V/FM50-101-C.html
[23:17:06] <renesis> could be capacitive charge pumps or something goofy
[23:17:16] <zeeshan> but note that drive is a pos when it comes to communications
[23:17:19] <zeeshan> theres no modbus or anything
[23:17:26] <zeeshan> its a simple scalar drive.
[23:18:42] <zeeshan> out of the circuit boards ive seen
[23:18:47] <zeeshan> this heidenhain looks so pretty
[23:18:54] <renesis> ?
[23:19:01] <zeeshan> its nicely laid out
[23:20:00] <renesis> caps are placed too close to the connector insertion area on the right side
[23:20:01] <zeeshan> maybe its cause its not multilayered
[23:20:07] <zeeshan> like a motherbaord
[23:20:26] <renesis> it looks functional
[23:21:00] <renesis> which isnt bad, but it looked like some parts were difficult, or autorouted, because certain places look messy
[23:21:21] <renesis> and there are a lot of vias
[23:21:27] <zeeshan> http://i.imgur.com/4ttXlqf.jpg
[23:21:32] <zeeshan> even thats well layed out
[23:21:46] <renesis> thats sexy as fuck
[23:21:50] <renesis> thats totally different
[23:21:54] <zeeshan> from a mechanical perspective
[23:22:18] <zeeshan> i think its cause of the symmetry
[23:22:20] <zeeshan> and patterning
[23:22:38] <renesis> caps are too close if coupling can cause issues
[23:23:14] <renesis> symmetry and patterns are usually a good things, means the designer was sane and it prob wasnt just done by a computer
[23:23:37] <zeeshan> i dont know what they call it
[23:23:39] <renesis> the other board looks like a guy who barely cares throw down some parts, laid some power traces, and hit autoroute
[23:23:45] <zeeshan> but sometimes they do a wiggle on the traces
[23:24:01] <renesis> thats for inpedence matching
[23:24:03] <zeeshan> i think to either add resistance or make them
[23:24:07] <renesis> impedence
[23:24:08] <zeeshan> this doesnt have that
[23:24:17] <zeeshan> ah okay
[23:24:40] <zeeshan> LeelooMinai: wake up
[23:25:11] <renesis> you can add resistance and inductance, itll work with trace capacitance to whatever, another differencial trace, a ground plane
[23:25:20] <zeeshan> http://www.ebay.com/itm/EATON-NFX9000-MODEL-NFXF25A0-1-DRIVE-/171328674967?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item27e3fc1c97
[23:25:22] <zeeshan> this be a nice drive
[23:25:25] <zeeshan> er nm
[23:25:28] <zeeshan> .25hp
[23:25:39] <renesis> and create a filter to smooth signals, or to get rid of noise, or couple it to a diff pair
[23:25:47] <zeeshan> renesis: howd you learn electronics
[23:26:26] <renesis> wtf i should ban your ass in #electronics
[23:26:27] <renesis> again
[23:26:42] <zeeshan> go ahead
[23:26:45] <zeeshan> i dont join there anymore
[23:27:10] <zeeshan> theres like 4 active people in that channel
[23:27:36] <renesis> prob more like a dozen
[23:27:47] <zeeshan> most of those people are on freenode electronics
[23:27:51] <zeeshan> which is a much friendlier channel
[23:27:59] <renesis> and some people who arent around much have been around least 10 years
[23:28:10] <zeeshan> so i could care less ! :)
[23:28:27] <renesis> well its freenode, freenode has rules
[23:28:34] <zeeshan> i'm glad
[23:28:37] <zeeshan> even this channel is great
[23:28:45] <zeeshan> sometimes it gets heated, but people are still generally good
[23:29:00] <renesis> anyway, you may want to learn more about a persons background and capabilities before theyre deciding theyre idiots and incapable
[23:29:11] <renesis> (sic)
[23:29:14] <zeeshan> lets not start this again
[23:29:48] <renesis> haha, start what again you didnt stop being zeeshaan lately
[23:29:59] <renesis> zeeshaan is an ongoing thing
[23:30:09] <zeeshan> ignored
[23:30:16] <renesis> \o/
[23:30:17] <CaptHindsight> that boards looks like it was designed for through hole stuffing machines, it's all spaced very square
[23:30:35] <zeeshan> CaptHindsight: dont you sleep!
[23:30:45] <renesis> yeah def
[23:31:00] <CaptHindsight> zeeshan: I'm asleep right now you insensitive clod!
[23:31:05] <zeeshan> :-)
[23:31:30] <renesis> maybe done by hand
[23:31:33] <renesis> looks old
[23:32:06] <CaptHindsight> parts are from 1983
[23:32:53] <CaptHindsight> and 1984
[23:33:30] <renesis> mixed electronics from that era blow my mind
[23:34:08] <CaptHindsight> it looks like CAD routed
[23:34:34] <renesis> one of exjobs had a b&k stroboscope, open it up and its like 8 boards stacked, edge to edge DIP IC, big caps, lots of ribbon cable
[23:35:05] <renesis> capthindsight: yeah everything exactly 45deg
[23:35:14] <CaptHindsight> I don't remember what we used back then for PCB CAD, it was manual
[23:35:25] <CaptHindsight> look closer lots of 90's
[23:35:55] <renesis> by the 90s, through holes and vias had teardrops, SMD was pretty common
[23:35:57] <CaptHindsight> http://i.imgur.com/4ttXlqf.jpg this board
[23:36:08] <renesis> lots of random angles and poly shapes
[23:36:42] <CaptHindsight> back in the 70's it was often drawn by hand
[23:36:58] <renesis> those boards are either ultra sexy or just scary
[23:37:26] <CaptHindsight> looked like abstract art
[23:37:39] <zeeshan> https://www.flickr.com/photos/128539016@N05/15536189301/
[23:37:44] <zeeshan> this one is my fav
[23:37:45] <renesis> yeah was all diff
[23:37:46] <zeeshan> cause of all the colors
[23:38:32] <zeeshan> so weird
[23:38:38] <zeeshan> im only using 1 output on the 7i77 board
[23:38:39] <zeeshan> lol
[23:38:46] <zeeshan> i must be forgetting something!
[23:38:53] <CaptHindsight> old analog and RF boards were crazy
[23:38:58] <zeeshan> CaptHindsight: pics
[23:39:38] <renesis> google rf dead bug
[23:40:20] <renesis> http://frenning.dk/OZ1PIF_HOMEPAGE/6m_IRF510_250W_module.jpg
[23:40:20] <CaptHindsight> http://users.skynet.be/myspace/CB_stalker20/stalker%20xx%20CB%20radio%20teaberry_inside3.jpg
[23:40:36] <renesis> ha, nice
[23:40:53] <renesis> trim caps and inductors everywhere
[23:41:04] <zeeshan> http://i.imgur.com/Thj9E8U.jpg
[23:41:08] <zeeshan> compare that with modern amplifiers
[23:41:10] <zeeshan> lame!
[23:41:33] <zeeshan> wow those are messy
[23:41:35] <renesis> how is that lame
[23:42:08] <zeeshan> there isnt much symmetry
[23:42:16] <renesis> to what?
[23:42:17] <zeeshan> it looks like a mess
[23:42:25] <renesis> which
[23:42:30] <zeeshan> http://i.imgur.com/Thj9E8U.jpg
[23:42:31] <zeeshan> that one
[23:42:40] <renesis> wtf?
[23:42:47] <renesis> how much symmetry do you need
[23:43:03] <zeeshan> i dunno what those round this w/ a flat head indent in them are
[23:43:08] <zeeshan> maybe pots
[23:43:13] <zeeshan> they look randomly placed
[23:43:14] <renesis> analog preamp right on the inputs, drops down into an amp with chassis heatsink
[23:43:20] <renesis> and nice isolation on the psu
[23:43:30] <zeeshan> the resistors and caps on the right
[23:43:34] <zeeshan> arent in line
[23:43:40] <zeeshan> theyve got a weird offset
[23:43:47] <zeeshan> the inductor isn't in the middle
[23:43:49] <zeeshan> its offset too
[23:43:52] <renesis> so youd rather a lined up china board?
[23:44:01] <zeeshan> no
[23:44:05] <zeeshan> im sure it performs great
[23:44:07] <renesis> things end up where they end up for a good layout
[23:44:10] <zeeshan> it just doesnt look mechanically placed
[23:44:19] <zeeshan> it doesnt look visually nice to me
[23:44:25] <renesis> if you have to budge something to get clearance so you get better performance
[23:44:34] <renesis> why the fuck wouldnt you do it, if you knew better?
[23:46:27] <renesis> http://imgur.com/0QelFuF,NWGkazA#1
[23:47:08] <renesis> like, on that it would have been better to line up the output resistors?
[23:47:34] <CaptHindsight> http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-tjZ2Uaq3Msw/Uw3kK21efTI/AAAAAAAAHCg/-8RhR-prNJs/s1600/blogSherwood+S-8900A+h.jpg
[23:48:44] <renesis> that looks like 70s audio
[23:48:53] <CaptHindsight> http://www.tapeheads.net/showthread.php?t=25229
[23:48:56] <renesis> swooshy traces
[23:49:41] <renesis> http://pacificstereo.net/tapeheads/9090/9090bottom.jpg
[23:49:44] <CaptHindsight> when I was a kid we used to dumpster dive behind Sherwood, they made amps and receivers
[23:49:49] <renesis> that looks hand taped =\ =\ =\
[23:50:27] <CaptHindsight> before the PC
[23:50:39] <CaptHindsight> and after tubes
[23:50:58] <renesis> tube stuff usually isnt pretty on the inside
[23:51:04] <renesis> you gotta be a tubehead to love that
[23:51:10] <CaptHindsight> archivist: must have some good pics
[23:51:28] <renesis> i like it because i <3 dead bug assembly, but its pretty ugly looking a lot of the time
[23:51:50] <CaptHindsight> there a place in Chicago that sells all this vintage solid state audio
[23:51:54] <renesis> and PCB layouts, the parts are so big the pcb are not so complicated
[23:52:12] <renesis> like home audio gear or everything?
[23:52:41] <renesis> vintage solid state is prob fire hazard
[23:52:50] <CaptHindsight> mostly home, but lots of crazy stuff from the 60's and 70's with gimmicky styling
[23:53:15] <renesis> haha, yeah its like interfaces didnt standardize until the late 70s
[23:54:00] <renesis> audio kind of followed porsche dashboards
[23:54:24] <renesis> just make everything out of black rectangles, controls are simple geometric shapes
[23:54:54] <renesis> thats only gone away in the last 10 years
[23:55:22] <renesis> dies with the home a/v receiver
[23:56:19] <CaptHindsight> http://www.fmtunerinfo.com/Micro-CPU_100.jpg $2000 in 1977
[23:56:33] <CaptHindsight> "the world's first computer controlled tuner"
[23:56:54] <renesis> i hope they mean a computer inside that thing
[23:57:06] <renesis> and not some sort of horrible rs232 ui
[23:57:26] <renesis> brushed aluminum box, the other block box
[23:57:30] <renesis> *black box
[23:57:57] <renesis> heh @ radio tuner like an old speedometer
[23:58:07] <renesis> my alarm mclock still has one of those
[23:58:33] <CaptHindsight> 8bit CMOS CPU 768x8 RAM
[23:59:06] <CaptHindsight> sorry 768x8 ROM and 256x8 RAM