#linuxcnc | Logs for 2014-11-11

[00:19:56] <handmill> XXCoder: there is any difference between the mesa card and gecko G320x drivers that connect to the parallel port?
[01:02:47] <Loetmichel> mornin'
[01:29:45] <archivist> handmill, the mesa cards are best for servo
[01:30:59] <handmill> archivist:, thank you for the answer, so how the motor get connect to the card?
[01:31:45] <archivist> depends on the servo driver you use
[01:31:47] <handmill> I need the G320x?
[01:32:01] <handmill> I want AC servo
[01:32:26] <archivist> many choices
[01:32:49] <handmill> what servo motors recomented to use?
[01:33:36] <handmill> I need about 1.5 NM for the X and Y and 5 NM for the Z
[01:34:09] <archivist> I dont have servo so dont have motor recommendations
[01:40:37] <archivist> with mesa cards you are not limited to step dir
[01:40:51] <handmill> so how it's work?
[01:41:25] <handmill> http://www.ebay.com/itm/CNC-400W-Digital-ac-servo-driver-AC-servo-motor-CNC-KIT-Router-Mill-Plasma-/281409681742?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item418552f94e
[01:41:48] <handmill> i thik to use this motor.
[01:41:50] <archivist> either pwm or 0-10v or recently there is an ethernet option being developed
[01:43:31] <handmill> lets go basic for sec.. what is the add benefit of using mesa card?
[01:44:01] <archivist> with that sort of driver iirc part of the loop is in the driver and the other in linuxcnc
[01:44:21] <archivist> mesa is fast enough to not miss encoder data
[01:44:45] <handmill> what is "iirc"
[01:45:11] <handmill> the mesa card go to the lpt?
[01:46:38] <archivist> if I can remember correctly
[01:47:54] <archivist> the data rate on parallel ports is limited, so you need an fpga card to do the counting etc for higher data rates
[01:48:29] <archivist> then there is a message packet and no data lost
[01:48:40] <handmill> but how it's connect to the computer? via parallel? pci?
[01:49:03] <archivist> either
[01:49:24] <archivist> or recently there is an ethernet option
[01:49:34] <handmill> I don't get it.
[01:49:40] <handmill> ethernet ?
[01:51:30] <handmill> I need some kind of a bill of materials, and wiring diagram
[01:52:53] <archivist> there is no one right way, many options depending on your machine
[01:54:24] <handmill> metal working milling machine.
[01:58:41] <handmill> I want to be able to use 3 axis servo, and 2 servo axis reserve to the future, tool changer, power draw bar, touch probe, Tool Height calibrator, servo spindle. 3d printer syringe
[01:59:27] <archivist> this is where you need a lot more IO that parallel ports provide easily
[01:59:37] <archivist> that/than
[02:00:07] <handmill> so how I know how meny IO I have?
[02:00:23] <archivist> also you did not mention limit switches
[02:01:31] <handmill> yes 10 limit switches
[02:01:43] <handmill> 2 for each axis
[02:02:12] <archivist> you should look at the wiki and see what others have done with retrofits
[02:03:13] <archivist> http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?Case_Studies
[02:09:41] <archivist> there may well be better options than were available at the time those were done
[02:10:57] <handmill> half of the links - broken.
[02:11:38] <archivist> people dont maintain their own sites unfortunately
[02:12:14] <Deejay> moin
[02:18:03] <Jymmm> Deejay: Your early, your fired.
[02:18:20] <handmill> is there any difference in the performances of the machine between brushless AC servo to DC brushed servo, if boath of tham generate the same torque??
[02:19:11] <Deejay> Jymmm =)
[02:22:35] <archivist> handmill, not much, the AC will probably be more reliable (no brushes) , possibly less electrically noisy (momentary brush disconnection)
[02:24:03] <handmill> do you think the AC servo worth it?
[02:26:20] <archivist> for running all day commercially, probably yes
[02:32:45] <handmill> and all day home use, I'm talking about chinese clone of the BF20
[02:33:54] <archivist> it is a choice, you have to start making them :)
[02:36:02] <handmill> so let's say i will go with AC servo. what is the next step?
[02:37:17] <archivist> decide on card
[02:38:20] <archivist> remember for full servo control the encoder needs to be seen by linuxcnc via the mesa card
[02:41:11] <handmill> I have zero understand about that - here i need some help / advise to do the decision
[02:41:39] <handmill> how the encoder send the data to the linux?
[02:41:53] <renesis> how is babeh formed
[02:41:55] <archivist> step dir without linuxcnc seeing the encoder is little better than steppers
[02:42:44] <archivist> handmill, via the encoder inputs on a mesa card and its counters
[02:43:28] <handmill> what kind of encother is that?
[02:44:22] <handmill> i need to but it and put it on the motor, or i need to but a motor that alredy have encoder?
[02:44:25] <archivist> normal encoders with an A a B and an index often marled Z
[02:44:30] <archivist> marked
[02:45:45] <archivist> the servo you were looking at has an encoder
[02:45:55] <handmill> what is a good resolution for encoder?
[02:46:31] <archivist> it depends on your needs and leadscrew
[02:46:50] <archivist> I have to go out for a while
[02:47:24] <handmill> 5 TPI ball screw
[02:47:53] <handmill> with the steppet now i get 200 steps per rev
[02:51:25] <handmill> for 0.005 mm resulution
[02:53:24] <handmill> 1016 pulses per rev give me the desire resolution
[03:04:31] <handmill> archivist: ?
[03:05:11] <Jymmm> archivist: I have to go out for a while
[03:05:23] <Jymmm> he left in other words
[03:52:01] <archivist> I just got back for a few minutes
[03:57:49] <Tecan> some tea ?
[03:57:57] <Tom_itx> handmill you'll probably have to gear reduce the servo too
[03:58:07] <Tecan> mate tea for everyone
[04:00:40] <Tom_itx> handmill also, with my mesa cards and gecko stepper drives i get 2000 steps per rev
[04:49:24] * Loetmichel steams :-) -> http://www.cyrom.org/palbum/main.php?g2_itemId=15365
[04:50:13] <Loetmichel> ... and there is something wrong, hwo can a 2200mAh battery be full in less than an hour from empty whit 850mA?
[05:13:49] <SpeedEvil> voltage
[05:13:53] <gonzo_> old worn out batt, or they are chineese mAh's
[05:13:56] <SpeedEvil> or that
[05:14:13] <SpeedEvil> 850mA@240V will charge a 2200mAh 3.7V battery quite fast
[05:14:48] <gonzo_> you would not gtet 240v drop across a batt
[05:14:54] <gonzo_> not for long
[05:16:17] <gonzo_> though voltage could be an issue, as in, having the charger set to shut off at too low a V. So it's not actually fully charged. (depends of the batt technology in use though)
[05:21:27] <Loetmichel> gonzo_: these istick is not even 3 weeks old
[05:21:35] <Loetmichel> ahd is supposed to be 2200mAh ;-9
[05:22:00] <gonzo_> what sort of batt?
[05:22:02] <archivist> was the battery fully discharged too
[05:22:05] <Loetmichel> liion
[05:22:16] <Loetmichel> and usb charger, so no 230V ;-)
[05:22:43] <Loetmichel> i will go for "chinese mah"
[05:22:47] <Loetmichel> mAh
[05:23:06] <gonzo_> I've had chinese RC packs that only had 1/3 of the rated capacity. But were less than 1/3 of the full price. so still ok
[05:23:46] <gonzo_> last ones I had were 8AH, but measured 3.5AH
[05:24:37] <Loetmichel> gonzo_: i can top that
[05:24:50] <Loetmichel> http://www.cyrom.org/palbum/main.php?g2_itemId=14733
[05:25:09] <Loetmichel> ... but what did i expect for 12 eur for a lamp with two batteries and charger?
[05:25:44] <gonzo_> ah, this is 'one down-man-ship' ?
[05:25:51] <Loetmichel> hmm?
[05:26:12] <Loetmichel> that pic was for the chinse suppier
[05:26:18] <Loetmichel> i ordered two lamps...
[05:26:22] <Loetmichel> they came this way
[05:26:40] <gonzo_> dilbert principal?? The difference between what yuou ship and what customners can be bothered to return, that is your profit
[05:27:01] <Loetmichel> the lamps are great, tho
[05:27:17] <Loetmichel> with good 2900mah sony 18650 they are really a charm
[05:27:27] <Loetmichel> and still cheap for 12 eur
[05:27:46] <gonzo_> usually I find that even with the failures and reworks/replacenemnt bits, the .cn stuff is still good value
[05:27:54] <Loetmichel> http://www.cyrom.org/palbum/main.php?g2_itemId=14742
[05:28:34] <Loetmichel> i think for a pocket flashlight thats an astonishing amount of light ;-9
[05:29:15] <gonzo_> I bet you can feel the recloil!
[05:29:19] <gonzo_> recoil
[05:35:22] <kpapadimakis__> Hi all, can someone tell me what are the parameters to the gcode.arc_to_segments() python method? (or should I ask in #linuxcnc-devel?)
[06:36:34] <Tom_itx> 26F
[06:39:14] <jthornton> 56f here
[06:39:24] <Tom_itx> not for long :)
[06:39:40] <Tom_itx> high today is 30 something
[06:39:40] <jthornton> lol
[06:40:49] <Jymmm> 68F currently
[06:40:53] <jthornton> todays high is 53f...
[06:41:39] <Jymmm> Sorry, I mean 56F, high of 64F
[06:42:01] <Tom_itx> goin surfin?
[06:43:37] <Jymmm> NAh, surf reports says 2-3ft today
[06:44:22] <Tom_itx> we had 35mph sustained winds yesterday thru the night
[06:44:49] <jthornton> windy as heck here yesterday
[06:44:50] <Tom_itx> ironic part of that.. it was trash day
[06:45:32] <Tom_itx> err today is..
[06:45:42] <Jymmm> http://www.surfline.com/surf-report/turtle-bay-west-oahu_10832/
[06:56:09] <Tom_itx> kpapadimakis__, maybe this would help: http://www.scorchworks.com/Gcoderipper/g_code_ripper_doc.html
[06:56:19] <Tom_itx> JT-Shop ^^ as well
[06:58:44] <jthornton> interesting
[07:00:48] <Tom_itx> http://docs.opencv.org/modules/core/doc/drawing_functions.html
[07:04:02] <Jymmm> The next time someone comes in and says they have a $300 budget for a cnc mill... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6YQr-jDIFDE
[07:16:52] <Jymmm> VERY nice flashlight btw... http://www.fasttech.com/product/1212404
[07:17:03] <Cylly> *cough* that wasnt the brightest idea, first i used the whole pack of chilli pweder with the noodle soup... then i got some soup in my throat... * swiping tears of my eyes*
[07:18:23] <Jymmm> Um, where else is the soup suppose to go other than your throat?
[07:19:20] <Cylly> tha air duct
[07:19:26] <Cylly> not the food one ;-)
[07:19:47] <Cylly> sorry, i am not a native speaker
[07:20:00] <Jymmm> BE AWARE that if you order lithium batteries from overseas it is taking 50+ days
[07:20:17] <Jymmm> Cylly: Ah, "wrong pipe" is the slang phrase we use for that
[07:20:44] <Jymmm> lungs vs stomach
[07:20:53] <Cylly> s/ throat/windpipe
[07:20:55] <Cylly> better?
[07:20:57] <Cylly> :-9
[07:21:50] <Jymmm> close enough, I thought you might have meant that you got some in your eyes or something.
[07:22:27] <Cylly> no, i am snigffing because of the intense pain of hot chilli soup running down my windpipe ;-9
[07:22:32] <Cylly> sniffing
[07:22:36] <Jymmm> lol
[07:22:55] <Jymmm> I understand =)
[07:22:56] <Cylly> <- still coughing ;-9
[07:23:25] <Jymmm> been there, done that =)
[07:24:02] <Cylly> ... there are reasons why normal companys forbid eating at the workplace
[07:24:15] <Cylly> i nearly spilled the soup bowl over the PC ;-9
[07:26:13] <jdh> anyone cut 6.35mm 6061 with a 6040? spindle speed? DOC? Feed?
[07:29:15] <jthornton> tool diameter? number of flutes?
[07:29:35] <jdh> 1/8, 2 or 4. 2 most likely
[07:32:05] <jthornton> carp, I can't find my calculator on this computer
[07:33:10] <jthornton> here is one on line https://www.carbidedepot.com/formulas-milling.htm
[07:33:19] <jthornton> what's your rpm range?
[07:33:29] <jdh> 24k
[07:33:58] <jthornton> not adjustable?
[07:34:02] <jdh> the android app I have says 50ipm, 0.0625 DOC
[07:34:12] <jdh> 1k-24k
[07:35:03] <jdh> (@24krpm) Seems excessive.
[07:35:06] <jthornton> 8k is 260 SFM
[07:35:32] <kpapadimakis__> Tom_itx, thanks. Is this something I can use to parse g-code? I only see a graphical ui, which is not what I'm looking for. I'm trying to assemble a very simple g-code parser to read lines and arcs.
[07:36:26] <jdh> guess I can start with something close to that. 15ipm, 0.050 DOC
[07:36:34] <jdh> 8krpm
[07:37:02] <kpapadimakis__> .. and convert arcs to lines, obviously =)
[07:38:01] <jthornton> jdh, if you don't remove enough material to pull the heat out then the material starts to gall up and stick to the cutter
[07:38:18] <jdh> so, faster or deeper?
[07:38:33] <jthornton> I'd use air to keep the chips from being recut
[07:38:57] <jthornton> slower rpm or faster ipm
[07:39:10] <jdh> Need to set that up. I usually just use a vacuum cleaner nozzle by the cut
[07:39:27] <jthornton> that will work too
[07:40:10] <jdh> I need some small radius inside corners or I'd just do it with a bigger endmill on the mill.
[07:40:51] <jthornton> one trick I do is to rough with a larger endmill then finish the profile with the size needed to get the inside radius correct
[07:41:25] <Jymmm> Just use a square endmill, problem solved.
[07:41:39] <jdh> a guy from work that used to do machining gave me a bunch of nice new .us roughing cutters.
[07:44:45] <jdh> I bought a Ti bike the other day. It has some incredible welds.
[07:45:04] <Jymmm> how much?
[07:45:32] <jdh> that's not something I want to admit to out loud.
[07:45:44] <Jymmm> jdh: whisper it then
[07:46:32] <Jymmm> $6000 ?
[07:46:44] <Jymmm> $8000?
[07:46:52] <Jymmm> more?
[07:53:16] <jdh> oh...not that bad, it's a 10 year old frame.
[07:53:36] <Jymmm> ah
[07:54:17] <jdh> I was riding in a group sunday and a guy had the same model (but newer). I mentioned I had just bought one and what it had on it. He asked how much.
[07:54:31] <jdh> I told him '12' and he said that's about what his cost new.
[07:55:10] <jdh> was confusing until he finally said 12 thousand and I meant 12 hundred.
[07:55:27] <Jymmm> ?!
[07:56:24] <Jymmm> $12,000 USD for a bicycle better come with daily sexual favors!
[07:56:43] <jdh> yeah, I am one for excess, but that is way out there.
[07:56:49] <Jymmm> and the seat doens't count =)
[07:57:19] <Jymmm> Yeah, we all have our high end toys, but damn
[07:57:50] <Jymmm> This is mine... http://www.universal-radio.com/catalog/hamhf/3991.html
[07:57:55] <XXCoder> dang
[07:58:01] <XXCoder> mine was $110 new
[07:58:21] <Jymmm> XXCoder: Heh, can't even get a used one for $100 these days.
[07:59:00] <XXCoder> theres project somewhere on how to build bicycle out of bamboo. said almost as light as carbon fiber. theres project for that too
[07:59:22] <Jymmm> bamboo isn't cheap
[07:59:32] <jdh> http://www.universal-radio.com/cats.html
[07:59:51] <Jymmm> lol, ohgawd
[08:00:37] <malcom2073> Jymmm: But there are no funny captions!
[08:00:55] <Jymmm> None needed (lower left)... Daaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaamn http://www.universal-radio.com/catdir/storeca1.html
[08:01:07] <malcom2073> Lol
[08:01:13] <malcom2073> *heavy breathing*
[08:01:29] <Jymmm> That's not a cat, it's a balloon!
[08:03:26] <Jymmm> I have been waiting 4+ years for that radio, I hope it lives up to it's hype
[08:04:39] <XXCoder> lol "owner" "slave: <name>" is better
[08:17:02] <Jymmm> Go screw yourself! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rDumrWx9cq4
[08:29:09] <Jymmm> The coolest looking cutting board EVER https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gliOZyHkdps
[08:34:39] <skunkworks> I showd this to ga guy at work - he made it and said it was the most time he spent on any wood working project.
[08:34:41] <skunkworks> http://youtu.be/gbD_h5bHfmQ
[08:35:01] <skunkworks> He told me not to send him anymore videos..
[08:36:15] <Jymmm> lol
[08:55:54] <archivist> hmm should I send that to a guitar collector :)
[09:03:56] <taiden> hey all, I need to purchase a motherboard for a linuxcnc computer
[09:04:36] <taiden> it seems 95% of the systems on the latency test wiki page are no longer produced
[09:05:05] <taiden> does anyone have a recommendation for someone running linuxcnc 2.6 without any major tweaks?
[09:05:21] <pcw_home> fast or low power?
[09:05:30] <taiden> low latency
[09:05:39] <taiden> i'm trying to hit 33k step frequency if possible
[09:06:27] <archivist> use a mesa card then that is easy
[09:06:38] <pcw_home> I think the Baytrail MBs will do that
[09:06:48] <pcw_home> Or close
[09:07:54] <pcw_home> I get 11 ish usec on my J1800
[09:08:08] <taiden> i'd go mesa but i'm trying to keep my costs low
[09:08:17] <taiden> that old intel mb i had was super sweet, did 33k step freq no problem
[09:08:54] <taiden> was an Atom DM525MW or something like that, can't remember the name :P
[09:09:17] <zeeshan|2> Jymmm: is that flash light really that good?
[09:09:55] <taiden> pcw_home: do you have a recommendation for a specific manufacturer?
[09:10:01] <taiden> http://www.amazon.com/s/ref=nb_sb_noss_2?url=search-alias%3Daps&field-keywords=intel%20J1800
[09:10:56] <pcw_home> I have a Gigabyte and its OK (but make sure you get a rev3 or later BIOs)
[09:15:15] <pcw_home> (I had to update my BIOs to boot linux)
[09:15:16] <pcw_home> also for the J1800,1900,2900s you need to use the latest ISO image (which comes with linuxcnc 2.6.4)
[09:39:17] <zeeshan|2> pcw_home: you said you have a a7v400mx?
[09:39:45] <pcw_home> I think so that looks just like it
[09:40:11] <zeeshan|2> hehe
[09:40:18] <zeeshan|2> works okay?
[09:40:24] <zeeshan|2> im planning to use it on the mill
[09:40:39] <zeeshan|2> i dunno if ishould use onboard video
[09:40:46] <zeeshan|2> or the geforce 400 mx agp card
[09:41:03] <zeeshan|2> whatever i guess causes less latency issues
[09:41:14] <pcw_home> I think mine has gone funny (I did run linuxcnc on it at one time)
[09:41:26] <zeeshan|2> ah
[09:41:42] <zeeshan|2> those amd athlon cpus love to run hot
[09:42:57] * JT-Shop likes LXDE much better
[09:43:58] <dr0w> LXDE rocks
[09:51:03] <zeeshan|2> pcw_home: silly quick question
[09:51:09] <zeeshan|2> on the 7i77 thers like 12 mounting holes
[09:51:22] <zeeshan|2> do any of them act like a chassis ground
[09:51:46] <zeeshan|2> (i want to ensure i use that as a mounting point)
[09:52:24] <pcw_home> No, all mounting holes are isolated
[09:55:38] <zeeshan|2> okay
[10:01:52] <ssi> gotta go pick up my plasma table from the powder coaters' today!
[10:35:55] <CaptHindsight> http://bunniefoo.com/novena/pvt2_shoot/pvt-case-assembled_sm.jpg how long would it take to machine that case out of aluminum?
[10:37:33] <CaptHindsight> 4 parts, 1 for the LCD bezel, 1 for the LCD shell, 1 for the case bottom and 1 for the keyboard
[10:40:09] <cpresser> CaptHindsight: I will build one out of acrylic
[10:40:26] <cpresser> but ill wait till the hardware arrives bevore i start :)
[10:43:58] <CaptHindsight> cpresser: did you buy the mainboard?
[10:44:22] <cpresser> the 'desktop' version
[10:44:26] <CaptHindsight> https://www.crowdsupply.com/kosagi/novena-open-laptop
[10:45:01] <cpresser> I want the LC-panel, but not the SSD
[11:33:56] <handmill> morning
[12:10:31] <ssi> https://pbs.twimg.com/media/B2LZeLjIEAIuOr0.jpg:large
[12:10:35] <ssi> woo
[12:10:46] <jdh> sexy
[12:10:58] <archivist> too posh
[12:11:17] <jdh> I would have gone for red
[12:11:27] <archivist> rust colour?
[12:11:30] <jdh> yeah
[12:12:24] <archivist> will that paint handle normal use and abuse
[12:13:41] <jdh> baked on poly coating?
[12:16:04] <ssi> it's powder coat
[12:16:15] <ssi> it's pretty durable siht
[12:18:40] <cpresser> does it burn when your laser hits it?
[12:19:02] <ssi> probably!
[12:28:58] <jdh> "what laser"
[12:29:09] <jdh> sorry.
[12:30:20] <ssi> :P
[12:32:32] <CaptHindsight> ssi: did you find your spray gun?
[12:39:47] <ssi> nah, I borrowed a hangar neighbor's
[12:39:51] <ssi> I'll get one eventually
[13:13:09] <FinboySlick> ssi: The rack is painted too?
[13:15:25] <ssi> they taped off the teeth
[13:16:15] <CaptHindsight> I've actually used the cheapo Sanborn/Toolshop HVLP guns to paint entire cars. They don't last long and tricky to adjust but they were ~$50 for the set of 3.
[13:16:28] <FinboySlick> ssi: Oh. And it's welded in place?
[13:19:42] <ssi> yeah, they're welded
[13:19:46] <ssi> otherwise I would have removed them
[13:20:12] <ssi> I actually changed out the rack on the gantry for belt drive, and I've debated doing the same on the Y joints
[13:20:22] <ssi> the gantry rack was bolted in place, cause the gantry is aluminum
[13:21:32] <FinboySlick> ssi: Still a lovely little thing. Plan on having dual X motors or will you run a shaft across the gantry?
[14:06:09] <_methods> hah just scored a sweet little atlas bench lathe for $500
[14:07:36] <jdh> nice. There has been a 6" one here on CL lately
[14:07:43] <jdh> don't like the motors though
[14:08:09] <_methods> this thing still has the original motor lol
[14:09:39] <jdh> http://fayetteville.craigslist.org/tls/4753683714.html
[14:09:43] <jdh> that one is pretty ugly
[14:09:52] <jdh> there was a clean refurb'ed one a few weeks ago
[14:10:01] <_methods> yeah this one is mint
[14:10:18] <jdh> where?
[14:10:23] <_methods> in charleston
[14:10:31] <jdh> heh, from CL?
[14:10:42] <_methods> nah guy that came into the shop
[14:10:45] <_methods> to get some work done
[14:10:49] <_methods> it was his dads
[14:10:54] <jdh> burnished metal cover?
[14:10:54] <_methods> and he was like 70
[14:11:00] <_methods> i didn't take pics
[14:11:03] <_methods> but no
[14:11:24] <_methods> he has 2 old kennedy's too
[14:11:27] <jdh> charleston CL is on my search list
[14:11:31] <_methods> just the top boxes
[14:12:29] <_methods> one was 520 series i think
[14:12:33] <_methods> the other one was older
[14:15:09] <jdh> http://charleston.craigslist.org/for/4737043184.html
[14:15:16] <_methods> lathe had the countershaft and everything still
[14:15:29] <_methods> nah that's not it
[14:15:48] <_methods> god that thing looks hurrible
[14:17:24] <Tom_itx> ssi what size belt drive are you using??
[14:17:38] <jdh> the one I was thinking of was beautiful but pricey
[14:18:01] <_methods> had the original steady rest, followers, countershaft, and motor
[14:18:07] <_methods> all in beautiful shape
[14:18:44] <_methods> i'd feel guilty ever converting it to cnc so it will stay manual
[14:28:15] <jdh> yep
[14:28:57] <_methods> it had the radius cutter attachment too even
[14:33:24] <_methods> i didn't see the taper attachment though but he said he had to dig out a bunch of stuff
[14:54:35] <ssi> Tom_itx: 3/8" XL belt I think
[14:54:59] <ssi> FinboySlick: it's two Y motors; that machine's been running for like four years, I just took it down to move it, and had it coated in the meantime
[14:55:02] <Tom_L> k. i just got some GT2 series for my spindle... just curious
[14:55:10] <ssi> I don't like the metric belt as much
[14:55:12] <ssi> it's too hard to get locally
[14:55:24] <Tom_L> what pitch is the XL?
[14:55:37] <ssi> .200
[14:55:40] <ssi> MXL is .080
[14:56:09] <Tom_L> xl sounds about the same size as automotive use
[14:56:26] <ssi> there's L also, and bigger (M and H I think?)
[14:56:39] <Tom_L> yeah i saw at least 3 on the sd site
[15:27:19] <JT-Shop> cairo has the worst documentation!
[15:27:46] <Tom_L> this from a document fixer :)
[15:28:05] <JT-Shop> it's bad because I can't find any
[15:29:00] <Tom_L> what is cairo?
[15:29:23] <JT-Shop> you can create a vector drawing in your program with it
[15:29:57] <Tom_L> https://pythonhosted.org/cairocffi/
[15:29:59] <Tom_L> ?
[15:31:12] <Tom_L> http://cairographics.org/documentation/
[15:31:14] <Tom_L> ?
[15:31:23] <JT-Shop> here is the main page http://cairographics.org/
[15:31:34] <JT-Shop> not a whole lot there
[15:31:40] <Tom_L> oh
[15:33:02] <JT-Shop> http://cairographics.org/manual/cairo-cairo-t.html
[15:35:22] <Tom_L> what more could you possibly want!!
[15:35:40] <JT-Shop> lol
[15:35:43] <ssi> https://pbs.twimg.com/media/B2MKVh4IYAAr_NV.jpg:large
[15:35:46] <ssi> looks teeny in here
[15:36:30] <JT-Shop> what's the table size?
[15:36:36] <ssi> 50x50"
[15:36:42] <JT-Shop> nice
[15:37:54] <ssi> I may be buying another airplane
[15:39:04] <cpresser> the scale-comp sucks: http://linuxcnc.org/docs/html/man/man9/scale.9.html it does "out=(in*gain)+offset", however out=(in+offset)*gain" would be more universal
[15:39:44] <cpresser> how i need two scale components to first subtract the offset, then apply the gain :/
[15:56:43] <cpresser> how does "hm2_5i25.0.7i76.0.0.analogin0-scalemax" work?
[15:57:18] <pcw_home> it sets fullscale
[15:58:02] <cpresser> so assuming i want "hm2_5i25.0.7i76.0.0.analogin0" to return values between 0 and 255. what do i need to set it to?
[15:58:34] <pcw_home> 255
[15:58:50] <cpresser> do i need to do some kind of restart?
[15:58:56] <pcw_home> no
[15:59:29] <cpresser> doesnt seem to work :/
[15:59:52] <pcw_home> note that you only have 8 bits of resolution over the full input range
[16:00:05] <cpresser> http://nopaste.info/a99b2f6ec8.html
[16:00:33] <cpresser> thats why i wanted 255.. to count LSBs :)
[16:03:53] <fenugrec> Hi fellas, there's something about the toolchanger I don't understand. I wired iocontrol.0.tool-changed correctly (false during toolchange, true when TC complete). But if I issue "M6 T5; G0 Z10", the G0 Z10 move happens before the TC is finished ! Needless to say I was "surprised" when that happened. Luckily nothing broke.
[16:07:44] <ssi> https://pbs.twimg.com/media/B2MRmNQIEAAxQwh.jpg:large
[16:08:28] <cpresser> fenugrec: just in case, there is some documentation: http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?ToolChange
[16:10:27] <Deejay> gn8
[16:11:29] <pcw_home> cpresser: looks like theres a scaling bug in the driver probably for unsigned float values
[16:12:54] <fenugrec> cpresser: thanks, but it looks like it says basically the same as the Integrator's manual... I looped back "tool-prepare" and "tool-prepared"; I have a classicladder hooked up to "tool-change" and "tool-changed". Here's the HAL stuff: http://pastebin.com/Z8RcKWmh
[16:13:39] <cpresser> fenugrec: why dont you just put the G0Z10 into the next line?
[16:13:59] <cpresser> pcw_home: ack. ill work around that issue for now
[16:14:04] <fenugrec> cpresser: it is, but I never remember how to paste linefeeds in IRC
[16:16:20] <fenugrec> I can type "M6 T3 " then "G0 Z10" in the MDI, and the move starts before the HAL pin " iocontrol.0.tool-changed " goes true... I thought I had seen an option somewhere to allow moves during tool changes, but I can't find anything
[16:18:42] <cpresser> fenugrec: i would look at iocontrol.0.tool-changed in halscope
[16:18:56] <cpresser> and see if you only get the one pulse.. just to be sure
[16:19:00] <fenugrec> hmmm I just thought of something, it might be due the classicladder scan causing "tool-changed" to go false a bit too late
[16:21:23] <cpresser> i assume "tool-changed" should be false anytime. and just produce one pulse when the tool-change is complete. deassert it as soon as you see "tool-change" going low
[16:24:00] <fenugrec> cpresser I think you're right, I'll try that
[16:34:24] <JT-Shop> Tom_itx, I found a clue to cairo queue_draw() triggers the expose event
[16:43:29] <fenugrec> crap, the tool-changed pulse is too "short", iocontrol doesn't see it
[17:04:50] <fenugrec> cpresser: I think I have it fixed now. I had to fiddle a bit with my ladder to get the tool-changed pulse right, but it should be good to go now. Thanks
[17:22:55] <Jymmm> There is HalScope too
[21:18:02] <taiden> hi all
[21:18:27] <taiden> aside from the "SuperPID" controller, has anyone had luck setting up some kind of PID control for spindle speed with LinuxCNC?
[21:21:08] <os1r1s> taiden: I'm using a superpid, albeit not with linuxcnc
[21:21:20] <os1r1s> taiden: Its pretty easy to control though. I'm sure it would work
[21:22:23] <pcw_home> Linuxcnc can easily control spindle speed using PID
[21:23:27] <pcw_home> Typically a velocity loop uses just P and I (and FF0)
[21:23:32] <os1r1s> pcw_home: The superpid does the speed control portion. He can interface to it via PWM or an analog signal if memory serves
[21:23:48] <os1r1s> pcw_home: Its a bit like a kbic control.
[21:23:54] <LeelooMinai> I think 7i76 has spindle control output
[21:24:08] <LeelooMinai> So I guess no "superPID" is required for that case (?)
[21:24:20] <os1r1s> LeelooMinai: I don't think the 7i76 controls the mains
[21:24:34] <os1r1s> AC mains to vary the spindle speed
[21:24:46] <os1r1s> I could be wrong ...
[21:25:27] <taiden> the "spindle" im using is a Hitachi m12vc router
[21:25:53] <taiden> i'd love to have pid control for it, but $180 and 3 week lead time is no bueno
[21:26:14] <LeelooMinai> I think it can act as digital potentiometer - so as long as spindle speed can be controlled this way, it would work.
[21:26:26] <pcw_home> No SuperPID is needed with linuxcnc, but of course some kind of motor drive is required
[21:26:40] <LeelooMinai> As for AC spindles - they require VFDs anyways, no?
[21:26:43] <pcw_home> (LinuxCNC can do the PID just fine)
[21:26:49] <os1r1s> LeelooMinai: Thats exactly what he would need to do
[21:26:52] <pcw_home> yep
[21:26:53] <os1r1s> LeelooMinai: PWM it
[21:27:29] <LeelooMinai> Hmm, not sure what that SuperPID really does...
[21:27:35] <pcw_home> Typically VFDs have analog 0-10V inputs
[21:28:07] <taiden> "SuperPID" just takes frequency input from some kind of optical sensor for spindle RPM and then adjusts PWM frequency to the motor to match
[21:28:22] <taiden> uses PID logic to maintain RPM under changes in spindle load
[21:28:23] <os1r1s> taiden: No, it also flips the AC on and off
[21:28:30] <pcw_home> if you have a VFD you dont need a separate controller
[21:28:35] <os1r1s> taiden: Which is what linuxcnc needs an external controller to do
[21:28:48] <LeelooMinai> A, I just looked at it - it has some kind of triac or whatever to do switching
[21:29:15] <pcw_home> what kind of spindle are you driving?
[21:29:22] <taiden> no VFD, it's a Hitachi m12vc router
[21:29:42] <LeelooMinai> taiden: Does it have manual speed control knob?
[21:29:54] <taiden> Yep
[21:30:18] <LeelooMinai> I think you could hack into the knob and interface it with something like what 7i76 has
[21:30:37] <LeelooMinai> Because knob will be just a potentiometer
[21:31:29] <LeelooMinai> But you would also need some kind of feedback, but that's rather easy to do
[21:32:05] <XXCoder> someone installed windows 95 on icrap 6
[21:32:23] <XXCoder> http://techcrunch.com/2014/11/10/chinese-programmer-sticks-windows-95-on-an-iphone-6-plus/
[21:33:04] <XXCoder> emulator but still jeez lol
[21:33:14] <XXCoder> we probably will have new installs in year 2095
[21:33:51] <os1r1s> LeelooMinai: Its meant for CNC control. You don't need to hack it
[21:34:10] <LeelooMinai> os1r1s: What, the router?
[21:34:19] <os1r1s> LeelooMinai: The superpid
[21:34:27] <LeelooMinai> I was talking about the router
[21:34:30] <taiden> i think he was tlaking about hackng thr router knob
[21:34:35] <os1r1s> Ahh, ok
[21:34:37] <pcw_home> but you dont need it either(linuxCNC is happy doing PID)
[21:34:42] <LeelooMinai> I am she btw
[21:34:52] <taiden> my mistake, apologies
[21:35:08] <os1r1s> taiden: Here is mine for reference ... http://gallery.mounicou.com/photos/i-bh5ccft/0/L/i-bh5ccft-L.jpg
[21:35:14] <LeelooMinai> I googled the router - it's just, well, a hand router like any
[21:35:31] <os1r1s> I have it controlling a bosch colt router
[21:36:15] <taiden> pcw_home: bring in RPM signal via optical sensor and output spindle on/off with PID logic?
[21:36:50] <taiden> i wondered if HAL could do this somehow
[21:37:49] <LeelooMinai> I just wander if the speed by potentiometer on the router like this would not work much better than just brute force pwm
[21:37:51] <os1r1s> taiden: If you wire up a triac I'm sure you could
[21:37:54] <LeelooMinai> wonder*
[21:38:17] <taiden> usually the routers have their own soft start circuits etc
[21:38:31] <taiden> i suspect you wouldn't get the PID type feedback
[21:38:41] <taiden> which is half of its value IMO
[21:38:58] <os1r1s> taiden: The pid would be done in linuxcnc
[21:38:58] <LeelooMinai> PWM could mess the router's own circuits operation
[21:39:15] <taiden> its just a standard brushed motor
[21:39:31] <os1r1s> The triac is just a fast mosfet for controlling the power to it. The feedback loop would be done in linuxcnc
[21:40:00] <LeelooMinai> I mean something like this: "Electronic speed control, maintains constant RPMs even as load varies" <- this will probably fight PWM anyways
[21:40:03] <taiden> anyway PWM is probably not necessary
[21:40:30] <LeelooMinai> (that's from that Hitachi router)
[21:40:31] <taiden> just have it turn on when below target RPM and off when above target RPM
[21:41:21] <pcw_home> Yes you can do PID speed control on HAL so a dumb controler is fine for linuxCNC
[21:42:06] <pcw_home> (I suspect the SuperPID is made for Mach that has no real time control capabilities)
[21:42:47] <taiden> i mean, i have a solid state relay running the router
[21:43:09] <taiden> could I just bring in spindle frequency and wire it up in software easily?
[21:43:10] <LeelooMinai> Brutal imho:)
[21:43:45] <os1r1s> pcw_home: I think you are missing the idea that it is made to control a AC based handheld router. You still need a circuit to do that.
[21:43:50] <pcw_home> No because SSRs typically dont to phase control
[21:44:17] <pcw_home> Sure but no need to pay for the PID part
[21:44:34] <LeelooMinai> I don't see wpm -> relay -> router ending well
[21:44:39] <taiden> it's just a brushed ac motor :P you just plug it into the wall or switch it with a relay :)
[21:44:58] <os1r1s> taiden: A triac is made to switch on and off more frequently than a relay
[21:45:09] <os1r1s> So if you don't care that much about the exact speed, I'm sure a relay is ok
[21:45:20] <LeelooMinai> It can also detect zreo-crossing, which is good
[21:45:42] <os1r1s> But 2000 RPM swings up and down could be a problem
[21:45:53] <taiden> triacs are much faster than solid state relay?
[21:46:12] <LeelooMinai> That's pretty much same technology
[21:46:21] <taiden> that's what i thought
[21:46:33] <taiden> i thought SSRs were used for high frequency switching in many applications
[21:46:34] <os1r1s> LeelooMinai: I didn't think it was the same
[21:46:37] <pcw_home> SSRs use Triacs (or SCRs)
[21:46:58] <taiden> so yeah. spindle out to SSR to router
[21:47:19] <taiden> spindle rpm in via optical sensor aimed at spindle with white paint on half of it
[21:47:22] <os1r1s> I didn't realize an SSR used triacs internally
[21:47:49] <LeelooMinai> That's the "solid state" part - semiconductors basically
[21:47:58] <taiden> i'm fuzzy on how i would bring the frequency in, and im fuzzy on how i'd get linuxcnc to control the RPM at that point
[21:48:30] <LeelooMinai> Frequency in is just pulses into the linuxcnc
[21:48:45] <LeelooMinai> Using whatever means you have
[21:49:03] <LeelooMinai> Probably some optical sensor is easiest
[21:49:25] <taiden> will linuxcnc be able to handle stuff up to 24,000 hz?
[21:49:33] <taiden> stuff meaning pulse frequency
[21:49:42] <LeelooMinai> I think that depends on the hardware
[21:50:04] <taiden> i wonder if there is an IC to convert frequency to 0-5v. there must be
[21:50:32] <LeelooMinai> If you have something like mesa/fpga it's not really necessary:)
[21:50:46] <taiden> what's fpga?
[21:51:32] <LeelooMinai> It's a type of IC that is pretty good at fast digital processing of signals (and is programmable hardware-wise)
[21:51:45] <pcw_home> Is this for a router type (universal motor) spindle or an AC spindle?
[21:52:37] <taiden> router
[21:52:46] <taiden> it's a hitachi m12vc router
[21:52:48] <LeelooMinai> http://www.jccayer.com/product.php?productid=15079
[21:52:57] <LeelooMinai> It's just normal router - has knob speed control
[21:53:18] <zeeshan|2> one eyed monster
[21:53:30] <taiden> totally goofy looking
[21:53:34] <zeeshan|2> hehe
[21:53:46] <zeeshan|2> im such a tard
[21:53:51] <zeeshan|2> i mounted everythiing on my panel
[21:53:58] <zeeshan|2> and i totally forgot to leave a provision for a hd
[21:54:08] <zeeshan|2> now i have to remove everything
[21:54:08] <taiden> pics?
[21:54:09] <zeeshan|2> to drill hole
[21:54:12] <zeeshan|2> drill holes
[21:54:13] <zeeshan|2> lol
[21:54:25] <zeeshan|2> ill post some in an hour :P
[21:54:27] <zeeshan|2> after im done
[21:54:39] <LeelooMinai> Glue an SDD with double-tape to the side and done:)
[21:54:51] <zeeshan|2> haha
[21:55:34] <taiden> i'll probably just grab the superpid
[21:55:50] <taiden> was hoping there was something well known for this application
[21:56:23] <pcw_home> the KBIC controllers are often used
[21:58:14] <taiden> that's for DC motors?
[21:58:32] <pcw_home> yes or AC/DC
[22:00:24] <taiden> so if it's brushed
[22:00:30] <taiden> does that make it a universal motor?
[22:00:35] <pcw_home> (it runs them with DC which is more efficient)
[22:00:41] <pcw_home> Yep
[22:00:47] <taiden> learn something new every day
[22:00:59] <taiden> so i could just hook this thing up to a dc power supply and it would run?
[22:01:16] <taiden> i wonder if that's what the superpid does
[22:01:43] <taiden> just a basic dc motor controller with hobby price tag
[22:01:52] <pcw_home> I think it needs AC power
[22:02:22] <taiden> my brain is trying to sift through circuits class
[22:02:53] <taiden> how can the motor run on dc but need ac power?
[22:03:12] <pcw_home> you might be able to bring the internal speed controls POT wires out (careful they are hot)
[22:03:55] <pcw_home> (the routers built in control)
[22:08:09] <pcw_home> the KBIC controllers need AC since they use SCRs (and you have to reverse the current of at least drop current to 0 to turn a SCR off)