#linuxcnc | Logs for 2014-11-07

[00:00:06] <os1r1s> zeeshan|2: I was looking for a modbus controller that I could hit over rs232
[00:00:12] <os1r1s> To control accessories
[00:01:31] <zeeshan|2> if youre looking for a plc that can communicate overmodbus
[00:01:33] <zeeshan|2> thats relatively cheap
[00:01:39] <zeeshan|2> id look at the micrologix 1000 series
[00:02:00] <zeeshan|2> theyre stupid cheap on ebay
[00:02:05] <Connor_iPad> Modbus is a protocol.
[00:02:17] <Connor_iPad> That runs over rs485.
[00:02:17] <zeeshan|2> Connor_iPad: that's why im confused by his question
[00:02:18] <zeeshan|2> hehe
[00:02:26] <os1r1s> zeeshan|2: Thinks like the modio
[00:02:31] <os1r1s> Things
[00:03:14] <zeeshan|2> i havent experimented with modio plc stuff =/
[00:39:52] <zeeshan|2> lol Connor
[00:39:56] <zeeshan|2> i can see why people blow up the 7i77
[00:40:05] <zeeshan|2> the pin pads arent labelled
[00:40:06] <Connor> ?
[00:40:14] <zeeshan|2> so its easy to accidently put the wrong wir ein the wrong spot
[00:40:18] <zeeshan|2> especially in the case of the enables
[00:40:27] <zeeshan|2> if you reverse em, you blow up something according to the manual
[00:40:48] <Connor> yea, which is why I said talk with pcw about it. to make sure you wire it correctly.
[00:41:16] <zeeshan|2> what im doing is im going to draw out the board (maybe pcw can send me a .dwg)
[00:41:21] <Connor> since your drivers require +5v to DISABLE
[00:41:23] <zeeshan|2> and label all the pins, and run the wires
[00:41:27] <zeeshan|2> no man
[00:41:38] <zeeshan|2> my drivers require grounding to enable
[00:41:46] <zeeshan|2> i have the INV version
[00:41:50] <zeeshan|2> inverted
[00:42:14] <Connor> okay. then that makes things tons eaier.
[00:42:34] <zeeshan|2> how are you handling it on your drivers?
[00:42:41] <zeeshan|2> (im thinking about throwing the 7i76 on the lathe in the future)
[00:42:44] <Connor> I'm still debating.
[00:42:44] <zeeshan|2> (thats why i want to know)
[00:42:56] <Connor> I'll be using a relay which ever way I go.
[00:43:15] <Connor> I'm debating if I want to disable the drivers on Machine On/Off
[00:43:15] <zeeshan|2> not gonna rely on the 7i77 watch dog?
[00:43:35] <zeeshan|2> 7i76 i mean
[00:43:59] <Connor> Yes. I am.. Output from 7i76 to feed a relay setup in a latching setup.
[00:44:18] <zeeshan|2> hm
[00:44:26] <zeeshan|2> i was thinking of running the enable signals directly to 7i77 without a relay
[00:44:37] <zeeshan|2> cause if computer freezes
[00:44:39] <Connor> if the e-stop is broken, or the output from 7i76 goes low (because of watchdog) it trips the relay which either will kill power to the stepper PSU, or enable the driver inhibt
[00:45:03] <zeeshan|2> cant you feed a signal from e-stop to 7i76
[00:45:16] <zeeshan|2> so it disables everything?
[00:45:40] <Connor> that's not failsafe.
[00:46:11] <zeeshan|2> what else can disable the relay
[00:46:14] <zeeshan|2> other than e-stop button
[00:46:24] <Connor> computer freeze, linuxcnc freeze, linuxcnc dies.. the Output to the relay drops. e-stop engaged output to relay drops.
[00:47:09] <Connor> I'm using a output fom the 7i76 toggled to HIGH in the hal file. So when linuxcnc starts, it enables everything.
[00:47:25] <zeeshan|2> erm not to sound like an noob
[00:47:30] <zeeshan|2> wont you need a relay per axis then?
[00:47:48] <Connor> e-stop in series with it, and the relay that's setup in a latching fashion so that tripped, I have to push my push-to-start button.
[00:48:04] <Connor> No. You can toggle the drive enables with a single relay.
[00:48:26] <Connor> or, the stepper PSU.. which ever way I decide to go.
[00:48:49] <zeeshan|2> i really dont wanna do it on the psu side
[00:48:57] <zeeshan|2> cause that'd mean i'd need 5 contactors
[00:49:09] <zeeshan|2> cause the power supply is built into the drives
[00:49:22] <zeeshan|2> but then again my drives are normally off
[00:49:25] <zeeshan|2> unless enabled
[00:49:36] <Connor> Why? 1 contactor that feeds all the drives.
[00:49:40] <zeeshan|2> thats why i was thinking a signal directly form 7i77
[00:49:47] <zeeshan|2> is enough
[00:49:59] <zeeshan|2> cause if computer freezes, wathcdog will fail
[00:50:09] <Connor> Power from source into contactor, from contactor into DIN Bus block that feeds the drives in a star pattern.
[00:50:12] <zeeshan|2> if i press e-stop
[00:50:18] <zeeshan|2> and for some reason computer freezes, it wont matter
[00:50:26] <zeeshan|2> cause the watchdog will denergize enables
[00:50:38] <zeeshan|2> like i think you're jnoticing something
[00:50:39] <zeeshan|2> that i'm not
[00:50:39] <Connor> Output from a pin through estop into contactor coil.
[00:51:05] <Connor> and branch of that coil to a input into the 7i76 to indicate to LinuxCNC
[00:51:26] <zeeshan|2> i have each servo
[00:51:29] <zeeshan|2> on a seperate breaker
[00:51:40] <Connor> okay. That's fine.
[00:51:53] <Connor> you still have to feed each breaker from a common source.
[00:52:04] <Connor> or from a DIN buss bar.
[00:52:05] <zeeshan|2> that'd kill power to the entire machine
[00:52:06] <zeeshan|2> lol
[00:52:17] <zeeshan|2> including the computer then
[00:52:43] <zeeshan|2> can you tell me what i'm overlooking?
[00:52:44] <Connor> not if you have a separate non-contactor buss bar.
[00:52:54] <Connor> you have a wiring diagram ?
[00:53:04] <zeeshan|2> it's not complete yet for the enable
[00:53:09] <Connor> that's fine
[00:55:27] <zeeshan|2> erm
[00:55:33] <zeeshan|2> the pdf output looks like ass!
[00:55:52] <Connor> Do it as a jpg then.
[00:57:01] <zeeshan|2> http://i.imgur.com/ZLzwTjq.png
[00:57:38] <Connor> okay. So here is what you do.
[00:58:02] <Connor> Come off the main breaker.
[00:58:11] <Connor> You feed 2 sets of DIN blocks.
[00:58:26] <Connor> on set is for everything that's going to be on regardless of E-Stop condition.
[00:58:40] <Connor> the other set will be switched on/off by the contactor.
[00:59:04] <Connor> from those DIN blocks, you'll feed your individual breakers, then to your drivers. etc.
[00:59:58] <zeeshan|2> okay i see what you mean
[01:00:18] <zeeshan|2> i still don't understand why i need it though (i'm not trying to argue with you or be mean!)
[01:00:29] <zeeshan|2> just take the 1 scenario for example
[01:00:35] <zeeshan|2> i press e-stop and computer freezes at the same time
[01:00:49] <zeeshan|2> the watchdog will turn off
[01:00:55] <zeeshan|2> killing power to the servo drives?
[01:01:14] <Connor> You take a Output from the 7i77, run it through the E-Stop switch, maybe through the hard limits if you want (you'll have to add a by-pass button so you can jog off axis). then into the coil of the contactor. Star Off the contact and feed a input into 7i77 so it can see the e-stop event.
[01:01:14] <zeeshan|2> in what scenario would the 7i77 keep the servo drives energized?
[01:01:20] <zeeshan|2> that i'm overlooking
[01:02:18] <Connor> If the estop is engaged, or the watchdog kills the 7i77 field power, the coil looses voltage, and the contator turns off.. killing power too all servo's and spindle etc.
[01:02:29] <zeeshan|2> i kill power to the spindle
[01:02:31] <zeeshan|2> using modbus
[01:02:35] <zeeshan|2> (the watchdog)
[01:02:40] <zeeshan|2> either it gets a command to stop
[01:02:48] <zeeshan|2> or if the watchdog detects signal loss it kills power
[01:03:01] <Connor> NEVER SEND A COMMAND to stop.
[01:03:04] <Connor> not fail safe.
[01:03:09] <zeeshan|2> why?
[01:03:20] <zeeshan|2> describe a scenario where it'll not stop
[01:03:32] <Connor> The only thing failsafe in that is the modbus looses signal.
[01:03:43] <zeeshan|2> which is really good enough
[01:03:48] <Connor> which would only happen if the computer locks up or looses power.
[01:04:14] <zeeshan|2> okay, why else would the command stop not reach there?
[01:04:21] <Connor> but, what happens if you Estop on purpose and have some sort of strange signal from EMF that distupts the stop command on modbus ?
[01:04:39] <Connor> but, the computer is still running.
[01:04:57] <Connor> which means the watchdog on the modbus doesn't see the modbus keep-alive die.
[01:04:58] <zeeshan|2> theres 2 sorts of error checking
[01:05:10] <zeeshan|2> lemme tell you the exact term
[01:06:01] <zeeshan|2> transmission fault treatment
[01:06:08] <zeeshan|2> and over-time detect (watchdog timer)
[01:06:26] <zeeshan|2> so if emf happens, it'd be a transmission fault error
[01:06:59] <zeeshan|2> i'm not trying to argue with you about this
[01:07:08] <Connor> I just think it would be safer to put a contactor in series with the spindle source side.
[01:07:14] <zeeshan|2> i just dont know if its worth all that headache
[01:07:22] <zeeshan|2> because i already have a breaker box
[01:07:29] <zeeshan|2> what youre describing requires me to buy bolt on breakers
[01:07:50] <zeeshan|2> and somehow find din rails that can accept 3 awg wire
[01:07:57] <zeeshan|2> din blocks that is
[01:08:27] <zeeshan|2> (do they exist?)
[01:08:35] <Connor> I'm sure they do.
[01:09:00] <zeeshan|2> i personally like what youre describing
[01:09:10] <zeeshan|2> because it also means i dont have to run a ghetto breaker box inside my control panel
[01:09:16] <zeeshan|2> i can have a nice clean setup.
[01:09:25] <Connor> exactly.
[01:09:27] <zeeshan|2> the only thing i dont like is the neutral bar will be exposed
[01:09:33] <zeeshan|2> but i can make a cover for it
[01:09:53] <zeeshan|2> http://www.amazon.com/Distribution-Block-Input-Output-Outputs/dp/B007UU7M8G
[01:09:57] <zeeshan|2> youre talking about something like that right?
[01:10:26] <Connor> No. I'm talking about normal DIN blocks with center tap jumpers on them
[01:10:46] <zeeshan|2> the wire that goes between the din rail block
[01:10:53] <zeeshan|2> and breaker will be not protected
[01:11:17] <zeeshan|2> *be
[01:11:28] <Connor> http://www.ivdc.com/cnc/mill_10_31_14_01.jpg
[01:11:42] <Connor> okay.. upper right hand area.
[01:11:54] <zeeshan|2> right above the wire raceway?
[01:12:03] <Connor> Yes. That's my AC
[01:12:13] <Connor> I feed in from the bottom.
[01:12:19] <Connor> they have a bridge clip in the center.
[01:12:29] <zeeshan|2> i think i have a bunch of them from my old control cabinet
[01:12:31] <Connor> you feed out from the top.
[01:12:35] <Connor> BINGO! :)
[01:12:40] <zeeshan|2> the thing though man
[01:12:54] <zeeshan|2> the reason i stopped is because everyone in here was giving me a lecture on the wire that goes from block
[01:12:56] <zeeshan|2> to breaker
[01:12:59] <zeeshan|2> is unprotected.
[01:13:06] <Connor> I have 1 for load, 1 for neutral, 1 for ground.
[01:13:20] <Connor> unprotected how ?
[01:13:32] <zeeshan|2> so i have 5 drives right
[01:13:39] <zeeshan|2> so the upstream breaker will be 5*15A..
[01:13:52] <zeeshan|2> a wire will go from that 75A breaker to the din block
[01:14:00] <zeeshan|2> and then 14 awg wires go from the din block to the breakers
[01:14:04] <zeeshan|2> and from breakers to servo drives
[01:14:13] <renesis> BREAKER TRAIN
[01:14:16] <renesis> WOOOOOWOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
[01:14:20] <renesis> sorry, heh
[01:14:23] <zeeshan|2> the 14awg wire if it shorts on the chassis for some reason
[01:14:29] <zeeshan|2> (the on between din block and breaker)
[01:14:34] <zeeshan|2> will not trip the upstream 75A breaker.
[01:14:39] <zeeshan|2> it'll go on fire
[01:15:15] <zeeshan|2> so the only solution would be to run instead of a 14awg wire, a wire that handles 75A.
[01:15:20] <zeeshan|2> till the 15A breaker
[01:15:23] <zeeshan|2> which is retarded
[01:16:29] <renesis> do you have a new diagram
[01:16:42] <zeeshan|2> renesis: pretty much what you saw before
[01:16:42] <zeeshan|2> http://i.imgur.com/ZLzwTjq.png
[01:16:45] <zeeshan|2> just added the servo drives
[01:16:50] <Connor> okay, mains breaker -- to a Din block -- 1 side for always on essentials, 1 side for drive stuff..
[01:16:59] <zeeshan|2> and connor
[01:17:03] <zeeshan|2> another thing to notice with my circuit diagram
[01:17:08] <zeeshan|2> is L1 and L2 are load balanced
[01:17:16] <renesis> oh neat its not just a screencap this time
[01:17:19] <Connor> from it, to contactor, from contactor to distribution DIN's to your 15Amp breakers to your servo's.
[01:17:20] <renesis> progress!
[01:17:24] <zeeshan|2> renesis: still a scren cap
[01:17:26] <zeeshan|2> just cropped lol
[01:18:01] <Connor> The ONLY thing that probably should have power that's not on e-stop would be fans, lights, and the computer itself.
[01:18:09] <renesis> ha
[01:18:15] <Connor> coolant, hydro etc probably should all be on e-stop
[01:18:19] <renesis> zeeshan|2: you cant save as png at high dpi?
[01:18:26] <zeeshan|2> renesis: its giving me issues
[01:18:27] <renesis> reading the text sucks
[01:18:31] <renesis> sucks
[01:18:34] <zeeshan|2> its mainly cause i dont know how to expoert correctly
[01:19:40] <zeeshan|2> https://www.dropbox.com/sh/ti3t81sxkky36in/AAAGffuUME_d8rCreVbBW2Jxa/SCHEMATICS?dl=0#lh:null-maho_400e_schematics_17.png
[01:19:47] <zeeshan|2> this is how the machine did it oacotry
[01:20:01] <zeeshan|2> *factory
[01:20:15] <Connor> okay.. time for bed.
[01:20:20] <zeeshan|2> gnite
[01:20:28] <renesis> wtf is that symbol
[01:20:33] <zeeshan|2> which one
[01:20:36] <renesis> bowtie resistor
[01:20:52] <renesis> rheostat?
[01:21:07] <zeeshan|2> my own diagram
[01:21:11] <zeeshan|2> or original machine diagram
[01:21:23] <renesis> machine diagram, the one you linked
[01:21:45] <zeeshan|2> no idea
[01:21:46] <zeeshan|2> lol
[01:22:25] <zeeshan|2> as far as i understand
[01:22:30] <zeeshan|2> 851 951 and 1051
[01:22:33] <zeeshan|2> are all 24VDC relays.
[01:22:39] <zeeshan|2> they're just breaking the enable signal.
[01:22:42] <renesis> are you still tripping on the little things off the 15A breaker?
[01:22:51] <zeeshan|2> renesis: nah man
[01:22:58] <zeeshan|2> worrying about e-stop chain
[01:22:58] <renesis> or this is just a wire gage before another breaker thing
[01:23:27] <zeeshan|2> the way connor is running his e-stop chain
[01:23:34] <zeeshan|2> is basically killing the power to the power supply for the steppers
[01:23:48] <zeeshan|2> i'm trying to say that my servo drives need a signal grounded to enable them
[01:24:13] <zeeshan|2> the only time they're enabled is when the computer sends a signal to the 7i77
[01:24:23] <zeeshan|2> if the computer freezes, the watchdog will fail
[01:24:30] <zeeshan|2> and disable the drives
[01:24:33] <renesis> how long is watchdog
[01:24:46] <renesis> ms, seconds, what
[01:25:00] <zeeshan|2> 50ms
[01:25:14] <renesis> pretty fast
[01:25:20] <zeeshan|2> vfd one is similar
[01:25:29] <zeeshan|2> what connor is basically is saying is
[01:25:32] <zeeshan|2> if you have some emf spike
[01:25:41] <zeeshan|2> and the signal from the computer to 7i77 becomes garbled
[01:25:47] <zeeshan|2> the computer is still on, so the watchdog doesnt fail
[01:25:53] <zeeshan|2> but the servos fail to disable.
[01:26:20] <renesis> how often does the pc update the drive
[01:26:29] <renesis> just on changes?
[01:26:38] <zeeshan|2> i'm not sure
[01:26:41] <zeeshan|2> but a lot faster than 50ms
[01:26:42] <zeeshan|2> :P
[01:27:04] <zeeshan|2> honestly im just thinking fuck it
[01:27:14] <renesis> wait so your estop does what
[01:27:27] <zeeshan|2> my e-stop is computer controlled
[01:27:28] <renesis> who cares about the watchdog, you just disable the drives
[01:27:45] <zeeshan|2> it sends a signal to linuxcnc which tells shit to close down
[01:28:02] <zeeshan|2> but i agree thats not the right way to do things
[01:28:07] <renesis> linux cnc is the computer
[01:28:08] <zeeshan|2> what i need to do is
[01:28:18] <zeeshan|2> have all ENABLE and modbus signals
[01:28:21] <zeeshan|2> go through a relay
[01:28:32] <zeeshan|2> when i press e-stop it kills the relay
[01:28:37] <zeeshan|2> which breaks the connection for the drives
[01:28:40] <renesis> your steppers have an enable pin, right?
[01:28:58] <zeeshan|2> and breaks the signal to all the vfds (which will automatically tell watchdog to fail)
[01:29:07] <zeeshan|2> servo drives and disabled
[01:29:12] <zeeshan|2> unless your ground the enable pin
[01:29:40] <renesis> i dont dunerstand why you are breaking signal to shut the drives down
[01:29:48] <renesis> they have enable signals
[01:29:53] <renesis> right?
[01:29:56] <zeeshan|2> cause im talkiung about 2 things
[01:30:00] <zeeshan|2> the servos are easy
[01:30:07] <zeeshan|2> you just relay the enable signals
[01:30:10] <zeeshan|2> w/ an e-stop button
[01:30:10] <renesis> something doesnt have an enable pin?
[01:30:16] <zeeshan|2> yea, the 3 vfds
[01:30:29] <zeeshan|2> they'll all be working through modbus
[01:30:44] <zeeshan|2> its too much nonsense tryying to run logic wires to em
[01:30:53] <zeeshan|2> with modbus its literally 2 wires.
[01:31:07] <renesis> wait so they do have enables but its too much nonsense
[01:31:10] <archivist> dont over do safety, think about tapping when you hit stop
[01:31:34] <zeeshan|2> archivist: thats the thing
[01:31:39] <zeeshan|2> i really think killing the main power to the servo drives
[01:31:41] <zeeshan|2> or even the vfds
[01:31:48] <zeeshan|2> is determinental to the system
[01:31:58] <zeeshan|2> cause you're all the sudden discharging the capaicators
[01:32:32] <zeeshan|2> almost all vfd manuals say something along the lines that every power cycle reduces the life of the caps.
[01:32:49] <zeeshan|2> especially when you do it under load
[01:33:44] <zeeshan|2> on the lathe controller
[01:34:00] <zeeshan|2> i run a wire through the charge pump signal
[01:34:06] <zeeshan|2> which ends up killing everything
[01:34:16] <renesis> what happens when you disable the vfd with the logic pin
[01:34:30] <zeeshan|2> renesis: it disables :P
[01:34:51] <renesis> right but it prob doesnt just turn power off
[01:34:55] <zeeshan|2> connor was trying to explain that if you try to send a run command over modbus
[01:34:58] <zeeshan|2> its a bad idea
[01:35:11] <zeeshan|2> because if the data gets garbled, the vfd won't ever see a stop command
[01:35:33] <zeeshan|2> renesis: it puts it fault mode
[01:35:38] <zeeshan|2> which coasts the motor to a stop
[01:35:54] <zeeshan|2> or you can rapidly stop the motor if you have a brake
[01:35:59] <zeeshan|2> braking resistor
[01:37:05] <zeeshan|2> its way too late to be putting effort into thinking :)
[01:37:44] <renesis> well if its a safety thing, just hit the pin with a relay, use pull up or down resistor to disabled state
[01:38:12] <zeeshan|2> breaking the modbus signal
[01:38:14] <zeeshan|2> does the exact same thing
[01:38:20] <zeeshan|2> it'll detect a transmission fault
[01:38:33] <renesis> is your estop to an electrical circuit or a pc input
[01:38:42] <renesis> if its electrical i wouldnt rely on the pc
[01:38:52] <zeeshan|2> the goal is it's electrical
[01:38:54] <zeeshan|2> 2 relays
[01:38:55] <renesis> what if the pc fucking up is why youre estopping
[01:39:01] <renesis> if its through your pc, shrug
[01:39:08] <zeeshan|2> 1 relay kills enable pins on servo drives
[01:39:09] <renesis> timebomb anyway =)
[01:39:11] <zeeshan|2> and 1 relay kills modbus signal
[01:39:18] <zeeshan|2> which pretty much kills everything
[01:39:42] <zeeshan|2> pc also gets a signal that e-stop is triggered
[01:39:53] <zeeshan|2> buit it wont be doing any physical switching on anything
[01:39:57] <renesis> why do you kill a modbus signal instead of just using the disable
[01:40:02] <zeeshan|2> less wires
[01:40:04] <renesis> because its easy?
[01:40:13] <renesis> one less signal wire?
[01:40:16] <zeeshan|2> less faulty tripping
[01:40:32] <zeeshan|2> its 3 wires pwer vfd
[01:40:37] <zeeshan|2> and 3 common wires per vfd gone
[01:40:51] <zeeshan|2> modbus is daisy chained between 3 vfds
[01:40:57] <renesis> how is it 3 wires per vfd
[01:41:06] <zeeshan|2> not per
[01:41:08] <renesis> to do an electrical estop signal
[01:42:00] <renesis> its one relay if you dont already have one going to the level you need, and wires to connect the shit
[01:42:40] <renesis> if its not a pullup/down input, its justy hiz input, i would put my own resistor to disable level in
[01:43:49] <zeeshan|2> okay fine
[01:44:01] <zeeshan|2> ill just do an external fault for each vfd
[01:44:14] <zeeshan|2> it might mean 3 relays
[01:44:18] <zeeshan|2> 1 relay for all the servo drives
[01:44:19] <renesis> how?
[01:44:27] <zeeshan|2> 1 for 2 identical v fds (theyre at 5v)
[01:44:35] <zeeshan|2> and 1 for the other vfd (its at 24v)
[01:44:49] <renesis> are they active low or high
[01:45:03] <zeeshan|2> you can make it either or
[01:45:16] <renesis> man you make everything so complicated
[01:45:34] <renesis> everything enable low
[01:45:59] <renesis> estop in run position, you have a relay pull everything low by one relay
[01:46:25] <zeeshan|2> thats true
[01:46:30] <zeeshan|2> that's how they do it in cars
[01:46:30] <zeeshan|2> :D
[01:46:34] <renesis> estop in ohshit position, relay opens, everything gets pulled up through resistors to disable state
[01:47:09] <zeeshan|2> i still disagree about the fact
[01:47:14] <zeeshan|2> that you cant send a "run command" through modbus
[01:47:33] <renesis> you can do whatever the fuck you want if you estop works
[01:47:33] <zeeshan|2> thats pretty much how all damn plcs communicate w/ conveyor vfds
[01:47:53] <zeeshan|2> 24VDC wire 1000 feet away
[01:48:03] <zeeshan|2> just to 'run'
[01:48:16] <zeeshan|2> then antoher one for reverse/forward
[01:49:14] <renesis> is your shit all hiz logic input?
[01:49:22] <zeeshan|2> hiz?
[01:49:56] <renesis> high input impedance, standard logic gate input, isnt pulled up or down, isnt the base of a common transistor
[01:50:21] <zeeshan|2> youre getting too advanced
[01:50:23] <zeeshan|2> for my understanding :P
[01:51:08] <renesis> jezus fuck youre as bad as the grad instructor
[01:51:22] <zeeshan|2> lol if you keep swearing in here
[01:51:24] <zeeshan|2> you gonna get banned!
[01:51:44] <renesis> ask him if the outputs are source or sink or both and hes like, deer lights
[01:52:17] <renesis> well if i get banned for swearing i wouldnt feel bad about that at all
[01:52:22] <renesis> not like anyone got hurt
[01:52:46] <renesis> if someone is insulted that i say the jezus, shrug
[01:53:05] <zeeshan|2> i dont get the sourcing and sinking and fancy terminology
[01:53:12] <zeeshan|2> i just understand 'i gotta ground this pin' to make it work
[01:53:17] <zeeshan|2> or "give this pin 5v" to make it work
[01:53:22] <zeeshan|2> thats good enough in my books
[01:53:38] <renesis> well in a lot of cases you give the pin nothing
[01:53:40] <renesis> and it works
[01:53:54] <zeeshan|2> i guess by make it work
[01:53:55] <renesis> or you pull it high or low to do one thing
[01:53:56] <zeeshan|2> i mean "change state"
[01:54:10] <renesis> and you can pull it the other way to not do that, or you can just do nothing
[01:54:20] <renesis> right thats what im saying, change state
[01:54:46] <zeeshan|2> okay looks like the 2 diffferent brand vfds will work together
[01:54:54] <zeeshan|2> both have pull up resistors
[01:55:02] <zeeshan|2> so i can join their commons
[01:55:04] <renesis> if theyre logic input, high impedance, no pull ups or pull downs
[01:55:20] <renesis> you just need one relay and bunch of resistors, 1K resistors prob work fine
[01:56:16] <zeeshan|2> its just so much easier
[01:56:21] <zeeshan|2> to break the modbus signal
[01:56:22] <zeeshan|2> lol
[01:56:24] <zeeshan|2> less thinking
[01:56:25] <zeeshan|2> less work
[01:56:32] <zeeshan|2> it accomplishes the same thing
[01:56:44] <renesis> if these things have pullups, its one more wire
[01:56:48] <renesis> thats it
[01:56:55] <renesis> and a cheaper relay
[01:56:55] <zeeshan|2> the amount of time we talked about this
[01:57:00] <zeeshan|2> i coulda have gotten it done already
[01:57:02] <zeeshan|2> =D
[01:57:03] <renesis> modbus is balanced, no?
[01:57:16] <zeeshan|2> its a differntial signal
[01:57:35] <renesis> same thing, you need to break both channels
[01:57:44] <renesis> need a dual pole relay
[01:58:04] <renesis> also putting balanced signals through a relay is maybe not great
[01:58:26] <zeeshan|2> why?
[01:58:34] <renesis> mostly i would be worried about noise on the coil getting into the switches
[01:58:51] <renesis> itll pull the balanced signals apart
[01:59:00] <renesis> which means theyre not going to get the same noise
[01:59:14] <renesis> killing the whole balanced pair thing
[01:59:38] <renesis> just a tiny but, but right next to a possible noise carrier (the relay coil)
[01:59:52] <zeeshan|2> solid state relayu
[01:59:54] <zeeshan|2> problem solved
[01:59:55] <zeeshan|2> =P
[01:59:59] <renesis> heh, my guess is that the switches are not magnetically shielded from the coil
[02:00:03] <renesis> wtf
[02:00:09] <renesis> i should slap you
[02:00:15] <renesis> bringing a triac into this
[02:00:49] <zeeshan|2> well
[02:00:52] <zeeshan|2> theres no magnetic nonsense
[02:00:58] <zeeshan|2> so there goes the noise issue
[02:01:00] <renesis> you want to do balanced right, you twist the pairs tight, all the way
[02:01:17] <renesis> what do you mean no magnetic nonsense
[02:01:21] <renesis> in a SSR?
[02:01:27] <zeeshan|2> im talking about a regular relay
[02:01:27] <renesis> i dont think that shit will work
[02:01:29] <zeeshan|2> theres noise like you
[02:01:30] <zeeshan|2> 're saying
[02:01:34] <renesis> theyre not really relays
[02:02:08] <renesis> i think some might be fets
[02:02:19] <renesis> those things are fucking expensive, too
[02:02:48] <renesis> anyway, do youre diff shit right
[02:02:50] <zeeshan|2> surplus store has em cheap
[02:02:57] <zeeshan|2> look at this
[02:03:04] <zeeshan|2> http://i.imgur.com/WIeD5yz.png
[02:03:04] <renesis> arent they usually just for ac?
[02:03:07] <renesis> the cheap ones
[02:03:10] <renesis> theyre potted triacs
[02:03:12] <zeeshan|2> spindle vfd
[02:03:21] <zeeshan|2> http://i.imgur.com/F6PlWb3.png
[02:03:23] <zeeshan|2> other vfds
[02:03:45] <zeeshan|2> ignore the crap about "Forward/stop"
[02:03:50] <renesis> reset is disable?
[02:03:54] <zeeshan|2> d1 pin is reconfigurable to a whole bunch of different things.
[02:04:00] <zeeshan|2> d1 can be set to "fault"
[02:04:04] <zeeshan|2> so if you short d1 and gnd
[02:04:07] <zeeshan|2> it faults
[02:04:23] <zeeshan|2> same with FR
[02:04:24] <renesis> its opto isolated
[02:04:28] <zeeshan|2> and BC on the other vfd
[02:04:31] <renesis> cool
[02:04:46] <renesis> you just need to ground it out
[02:04:58] <zeeshan|2> the thing i dont like is
[02:05:02] <renesis> http://i.imgur.com/F6PlWb3.png
[02:05:03] <renesis> that one
[02:05:12] <zeeshan|2> yea
[02:05:18] <zeeshan|2> to make these work through the same relay
[02:05:23] <zeeshan|2> i'd need to join gnd on that one
[02:05:26] <zeeshan|2> w/ bc on the other one
[02:05:35] <renesis> whats the shutdown pin on the other schematic
[02:05:43] <zeeshan|2> FR to BC
[02:05:44] <zeeshan|2> will shut it down
[02:06:37] <renesis> same deal, its opto isolated
[02:07:23] <zeeshan|2> "sink"
[02:07:25] <renesis> BR is some sort of ground, but its not chassis ground
[02:07:27] <zeeshan|2> is when you short fr and bc
[02:07:28] <zeeshan|2> right?
[02:07:30] <renesis> so prob some sort of comm ground
[02:07:33] <zeeshan|2> that it changes state
[02:07:43] <renesis> yeah
[02:07:51] <zeeshan|2> okay so yea thats how it works
[02:07:54] <renesis> its pullup with a led in series
[02:07:54] <zeeshan|2> fr to bc disables
[02:08:12] <renesis> is br floating or will grounding it break all the things
[02:08:28] <zeeshan|2> i dont know
[02:08:31] <zeeshan|2> i just know fr to bc disables it
[02:08:40] <renesis> lots of text in the manual?
[02:08:42] <zeeshan|2> if you measure voltage betwen fr and bc
[02:08:45] <renesis> it will prob mention something
[02:08:50] <zeeshan|2> its 24VDC
[02:08:55] <renesis> right
[02:08:59] <zeeshan|2> if you measure voltage between d1 and gnd
[02:09:01] <zeeshan|2> its 5vdc
[02:09:06] <renesis> but measure voltage of both sides to chassis
[02:09:21] <renesis> if both side meaure 0v, its floating versus chassis ground
[02:09:27] <renesis> or digital ground
[02:09:30] <zeeshan|2> 100% its floating
[02:09:40] <renesis> hard to tell
[02:09:48] <zeeshan|2> you know how i know this
[02:09:57] <zeeshan|2> i tried to short between d1
[02:09:59] <zeeshan|2> and chassis ground
[02:10:00] <zeeshan|2> nothing happened
[02:10:01] <zeeshan|2> lol
[02:10:02] <renesis> you tied it to shit and its not dead?
[02:10:21] <zeeshan|2> so youre right its optically isolated
[02:10:40] <zeeshan|2> so if i tie gnd + bc
[02:10:49] <zeeshan|2> so its commonly shared floating grounds
[02:11:05] <renesis> well its not floating anymore
[02:11:05] <zeeshan|2> and then join fr and d1 together
[02:11:09] <zeeshan|2> wont that blow things up
[02:11:13] <zeeshan|2> cause ones at 24vdc the others at 5
[02:11:13] <renesis> what
[02:11:25] <renesis> is the 5v floating?
[02:11:38] <zeeshan|2> yes
[02:11:44] <zeeshan|2> it wont read 5v between that pin and chassis.
[02:11:55] <renesis> well that could mean the pin is low
[02:12:03] <renesis> shrug
[02:12:08] <renesis> or has pulldowns
[02:12:08] <zeeshan|2> reads 5v between d1 and gnd
[02:12:21] <renesis> k
[02:12:42] <renesis> you tie the grounds to real ground
[02:12:53] <zeeshan|2> real ground = chassis ground?
[02:12:55] <renesis> whatever youre system psu ground shit is
[02:13:00] <zeeshan|2> ok
[02:13:03] <zeeshan|2> so where the star is
[02:13:17] <renesis> yeah thats usually not a bad idea
[02:13:43] <zeeshan|2> man
[02:13:50] <zeeshan|2> im just gonna throw the 2 vfds that are identical opn one relay
[02:13:53] <zeeshan|2> and put this pos on another
[02:13:55] <renesis> then you twi fuck why do they have the other relay
[02:13:55] <zeeshan|2> and call it a day
[02:14:11] <zeeshan|2> relays are cheap
[02:14:13] <zeeshan|2> :P
[02:14:44] <zeeshan|2> i need to do this on my lathe cnc
[02:14:46] <renesis> and yeah that will work
[02:14:49] <zeeshan|2> im currently killing the modbus
[02:14:55] <zeeshan|2> well actually
[02:14:56] <zeeshan|2> i lie
[02:14:59] <zeeshan|2> i'm not killing modbus
[02:15:07] <zeeshan|2> im just relying on transmission fault or wtachdog failure
[02:15:09] <zeeshan|2> to kill it
[02:15:11] <renesis> youre just not doing anything except sending vfd stop
[02:15:35] <renesis> you kill the pc?
[02:15:46] <zeeshan|2> no lol
[02:15:54] <renesis> brutal
[02:16:02] <zeeshan|2> my main e-stop circuit which kills the stepper drives on the lathe
[02:16:09] <zeeshan|2> at the same time sends the pc a signal its in e-stop mode
[02:16:13] <zeeshan|2> which communicates with modbus
[02:16:19] <zeeshan|2> to tell vfd to shut up
[02:16:23] <renesis> right ans it stops the spindle
[02:16:43] <zeeshan|2> i personally see that working all the time
[02:16:48] <zeeshan|2> even if computer freezes
[02:16:56] <zeeshan|2> but i guess its good practice
[02:17:02] <zeeshan|2> just to use the disable pins on the vfd
[02:17:07] <zeeshan|2> that way you take no chances
[02:17:24] <zeeshan|2> okay this sucked the energy out of me
[02:17:25] <zeeshan|2> thanks
[02:17:28] <zeeshan|2> !
[02:17:29] <zeeshan|2> gnite man
[02:17:31] <renesis> well its usually not good practice to split diff signals if you can avoid it
[02:17:33] <renesis> nite
[02:17:59] <renesis> they prob make diff relays with industrial ratings, theyre prob $$$
[02:19:14] <Deejay> moinsen
[06:41:22] <Tom_itx> quiet 38°F morning...
[06:50:27] <Jymmm> Tom_itx: <--- Poor bastard! Or shouldI say Cold Bastard?
[06:52:03] <Tom_itx> JT-Shop, http://tom-itx.ddns01.com:81/~webpage/cnc/new_pulleys/timing_pulley_index.php
[06:53:55] <jthornton> looking good, how does the encoder work?
[06:54:46] <Tom_itx> up to about 5200 rpm
[06:55:12] <Tom_itx> for a cheap printer encoder it works good
[06:55:18] <Tom_itx> i wish it had an index
[06:56:03] <jthornton> looks like you could mount an encoder like I did on the BP knee mill
[06:56:30] <Tom_itx> i could except sometimes i need a bolt thru the center for a drill chuck etc
[06:56:36] <Tom_itx> i wish there was a way around that
[06:57:07] <Tom_itx> or other attachments like flycutter etc
[06:57:26] <jthornton> I missed that
[06:57:43] <jthornton> a 1:1 belt would work
[07:04:02] <Tom_itx> i could get one of these but i think my collet is tapered instead of threaded. i'd have to check for sure: http://www.a2zcorp.us/store/ProductDetailNP.asp?Cguid={837734A6-B0F6-4848-B38E-B8A184C0C99C}&ProductID=4609&Category=ThreadedArbor:Sherline
[07:25:12] <_methods> http://linuxgizmos.com/beaglebone-cape-eases-access-to-the-sitara-socs-pru/
[07:25:25] <_methods> looks like TI is jumpin in
[07:25:29] <_methods> might be interesting
[07:29:20] <jthornton> 32f here
[07:31:25] <jdh> brrr
[08:05:59] <CaptHindsight> "the PRU is so notoriously difficult to program, most BB Black hackers are hardly aware it’s there" so we came up with the "PRU cape for $39" with hardly anything on it
[08:07:04] <kb8wmc> CaptHindsight: sorry I kept missing you last night/early this morning
[08:07:09] <_methods> but it has a temp sensor...........
[08:10:16] <_methods> it looks to me like TI is willing to invest in that platform though
[08:10:23] <_methods> the seem to be taking it seriously
[08:10:58] <_methods> http://linuxgizmos.com/ti-sitara-sdk-moves-to-mainline-linux-kernel/
[08:11:34] <JT-Shop> hmm, it's 62f in the shop and I've not started the stove yet
[08:11:42] <CaptHindsight> TI could have one upped the RPi by sticking PRU's on any of their cellphone SOC's
[08:12:30] <CaptHindsight> IO + GPU + PRU, there's nothing like that
[08:12:32] <_methods> well i won't be running any machines with one
[08:12:53] <_methods> but it's cool to see that people are looking at the platform seriously
[08:15:10] <CaptHindsight> I would have called it a BBB pashmina to give it some flare, Cape just comes across to comic book to me.
[08:16:24] <CaptHindsight> or being from Texas a serape
[08:16:27] <kb8wmc> CaptHindsight: you said you may have camview-emc files
[08:16:46] <CaptHindsight> kb8wmc: which deb do you need?
[08:16:47] <mozmck> pashmina? serape? yuck!
[08:17:59] <kb8wmc> I need the camview-emc and related utilities files
[08:18:11] <CaptHindsight> foe which distro?
[08:18:17] <CaptHindsight> foe/for
[08:18:33] <kb8wmc> 10.04 and Wheezy
[08:19:13] <CaptHindsight> he never made any for wheezy and I don't have the .deb for 10.04
[08:19:45] <kb8wmc> ok, which ones do you have, maybe I can modify
[08:20:11] <CaptHindsight> somebody should have mirrored his debs
[08:20:29] <kb8wmc> I agree with that idea
[08:20:45] <CaptHindsight> but camview is dead
[08:21:06] <CaptHindsight> opencv is popular
[08:21:20] <kb8wmc> hmmmmm
[08:21:45] <_methods> opencv is good stuff
[08:21:58] <kb8wmc> never tried it, I want to use the camera app on my machine
[08:22:16] <kb8wmc> I have not even seen the opencv
[08:22:30] <kb8wmc> is anyone using it that you know of?
[08:22:50] <_methods> i've never used it on my cnc
[08:23:08] <_methods> you can do whatever you want with it though
[08:23:20] <_methods> you're only limited by your wallet and imagination
[08:23:42] <_methods> and possibly strict NDA's
[08:23:42] <kb8wmc> do you know if it has same or similar features to camview-emc?
[08:24:08] <_methods> did they build camview off of opencv?
[08:24:15] <CaptHindsight> kb8wmc: https://github.com/Itseez/opencv/archive/3.0.0-alpha.zip
[08:24:36] <kb8wmc> CaptHindsight: thanks will check it out
[08:25:02] <CaptHindsight> the evolved separately
[08:25:07] <_methods> ah
[08:26:41] <CaptHindsight> https://github.com/firepick1/FireSight uses openCV
[08:28:39] <kb8wmc> I will give it a look, I only ever had limited success with camview-emc
[08:30:11] <CaptHindsight> !seen psha
[08:30:11] <the_wench> last seen in 2014-07-30 22:02:47GMT 838:59:59 ago, saying Quit: Lost terminal
[08:37:14] <kb8wmc> I just checked the 10.04 repository and it has python opencv, are they the same?
[08:39:16] <_methods> no that's a simplified version of opencv
[08:39:22] <_methods> but it may do everythign you need actually
[08:39:32] <_methods> worth trying
[08:39:57] <kb8wmc> rgr that...will give it a whirl and see
[08:40:45] <kb8wmc> I just want something that works comparable to the features in camview-emc
[08:41:22] <_methods> well you can do pretty much anything with opencv
[08:41:42] <_methods> it can be a bit of a hog though
[08:41:49] <_methods> so make sure you have some horsepower
[08:43:07] <kb8wmc> if it is able to be disabled after use it would probably work to my satisfaction
[08:49:26] <CaptHindsight> kb8wmc: which features did you use in camview?
[08:49:59] <kb8wmc> the crosshairs and G43H99
[08:53:45] <_methods> http://www.linuxcnc.org/index.php/english/forum/10-advanced-configuration/20874-linuxcnc--robot-operating-system--opencv#20874
[08:54:33] <kb8wmc> tnx for link
[08:54:39] <_methods> np i'ts kinda old
[08:54:46] <_methods> but might get you off on a good tack
[08:54:48] <PetefromTn_> Mornin'
[08:55:00] <_methods> hola
[08:55:12] <PetefromTn_> hola
[08:55:32] <PetefromTn_> hola cow what is going on in the linuxCNC world today? hehe
[08:55:41] <_methods> hehe
[08:56:37] <PetefromTn_> the discussion about adding those rotary selector switches for axis and step count selection has got me wanting it on my machine now.
[08:57:22] <PetefromTn_> I may have to head down to Radio shack and buy some of those things and see about adding them in. I need to add some more buttons to my control panel anyway been meaning to for awhile now.
[08:57:24] <_methods> another good opencv link
[08:57:26] <_methods> http://sourceforge.net/p/emc/mailman/emc-users/thread/782EB596E9E8DF49A0338897A80C60251A5B0E3C@Post10b.skynet.local/
[08:58:17] <kb8wmc> tnx for this link also
[08:58:31] <_methods> np looks like he got it running with python opencv
[08:59:34] <_methods> doing crosshairs in opencv is trivial
[09:00:03] <_methods> but homing and coordinatin with linuxcnc will be slightly more involved
[09:01:44] <kb8wmc> rgr, maybe he has some files as examples
[09:01:49] <_methods> he does
[09:01:54] <kb8wmc> ah
[09:02:12] <_methods> he had a file in there where he hooked up halpins in homecart or something like that
[09:02:20] <_methods> for finding the center of a circle in view
[09:04:56] <_methods> you could try posting your issue to the mailing list too
[09:05:06] <kb8wmc> rgr
[09:05:17] <_methods> you might hit drag in some better input
[09:29:08] <zeeshan|2> PCW: do you have a DWG for 7i77 that you can share? (i would like to save myself the time from drawing it) -- just needs to be rectangle with pin blocks
[09:38:16] <pcw_home> I think the drawing in the back of the manual is from a DXF so that must be around
[09:39:30] <zeeshan|2> yes it looks like someone draw it in autocad
[09:39:48] <zeeshan|2> i tried to use the pdf to generate a dwg but i failed :D
[09:40:00] <pcw_home> nah its from a Gerber to DXF translator
[09:40:47] <CaptHindsight> Now you to can make bad prints with a tech capable of sub-micron resolution! http://linuxgizmos.com/tiny-3d-resin-printer-runs-linux-on-raspberry-pi/
[09:41:15] <zeeshan|2> CaptHindsight: wow thats horrible quality
[09:41:32] <CaptHindsight> http://files.linuxgizmos.com/ibox_nano_extrusions.jpg I've seen better with FDM
[09:41:50] <zeeshan|2> CaptHindsight: find me a cheap 3d printer
[09:41:59] <zeeshan|2> 12" or 24" x 24x 24
[09:42:02] <zeeshan|2> 12x12x12
[09:42:06] <zeeshan|2> :D
[09:42:18] <CaptHindsight> which 3d tech?
[09:42:41] <zeeshan|2> something that can use recycled nylon zip ties
[09:42:42] <zeeshan|2> :-)
[09:43:28] <CaptHindsight> and old *duinos
[09:43:49] <CaptHindsight> you might as well just hand carve stuff
[09:44:04] <CaptHindsight> I see better hand made parts than these prints
[09:44:14] <zeeshan|2> after i'm done making this huge drawing
[09:44:21] <zeeshan|2> im gonna post it somewhere on linuxcnc
[09:44:34] <zeeshan|2> help out visual people like me :P
[09:45:27] <CaptHindsight> what style? I'd like to see an impressionist interpretation of HAL
[09:45:40] <zeeshan|2> its a dwg for a 5 axis mill
[09:45:47] <zeeshan|2> using 7i77 and a few vfds
[09:45:56] <zeeshan|2> oh you mean printer?
[09:52:12] <zeeshan|2> pcw any luck? :D
[09:52:19] <zeeshan|2> dxf file will work too
[09:53:27] <malcom2073> Anyone have a 6040? Checked out a chinese 6040 machine last night, looked like the bearings themselves on the supported rails had flex in them. Basically when you pushed sideways on the gantry the rail looked like it was trying to come out of the bottom of the split bearing. Is this fairly typical for split bearings and the 6040 in general, or does it just mean cheap bearings?
[09:53:50] <pcw_home> freeby.mesanet.com/7I77MECH.DWG
[09:54:29] <zeeshan|2> not found
[09:54:37] <zeeshan|2> ps you're the best!
[09:55:05] <toastyde1th> malcom2073, link to machine?
[09:55:08] <malcom2073> I was thinking of getting one and replacing the electronics, but that made me a bit worried, and also worried about my plan to buy supported rail stuff from china for a differnet router if they're typically only usable against downward force.
[09:55:23] <malcom2073> toastyde1th: one of these: http://www.carving-cnc.com/cnc6040-series/cnc-6040z-s80-new-router-engraver-drilling-and-milling-machine.html
[09:55:30] <pcw_home> its there
[09:56:17] <zeeshan|2> The requested URL /7I77MECH.DWG was not found on this server.
[09:56:27] <zeeshan|2> maybe its my firefox browser
[09:56:46] <zeeshan|2> nope same thing with mr safari
[09:56:59] <PetefromTn_> not working here either
[09:57:28] <pcw_home> works for me (are you inserting a www?)
[09:57:35] <malcom2073> doesn't work for me either
[09:57:38] <zeeshan|2> no
[09:57:46] <zeeshan|2> http://freeby.mesanet.com/7I77MECH.DWG
[09:57:50] <zeeshan|2> is what im inputting
[09:58:34] <PetefromTn_> still not working
[09:58:44] <pcw_home> sorry
[09:58:46] <pcw_home> freeby.mesanet.com/7I77MECH.DXF
[09:58:57] <zeeshan|2> thank you
[09:59:50] <zeeshan|2> this saves so much time.
[09:59:55] <zeeshan|2> really appreciate it
[09:59:59] <pcw_home> note that the coverter is only use to get gerbers on a format that can be imported into manuals so some programs may have troubles with it
[10:00:03] <Connor> pcw_home: In the manuals for both the 7i76 and 7i77, TB2 Pins 6 and 7 are marked NC. But... I threw my ohm meter on them.. and they ohm out to ground. (which is what I need.. need more connections to ground).
[10:00:09] <Connor> can you confirm that they are indeed ground.. and not NC as the manual states ?
[10:01:09] <PetefromTn_> Wish I had that when I was working with my 7i77 setup.
[10:01:17] <pcw_home> They are grouns but not guaranteed to stay they way on newer revisions
[10:02:36] <Connor> okay. How come? :)
[10:03:37] <Connor> and you mean new hardware revisions right ?
[10:04:05] <pcw_home> Yes
[10:04:33] <pcw_home> On high output current boards those are used for VCLAMP
[10:05:05] <Connor> I'm trying to understand which I/O's are isolated from what..
[10:05:30] <Connor> The 5v and GND are isolated or the field I/O and GND
[10:05:33] <pcw_home> all the field I/O is isolated from the
[10:05:39] <pcw_home> PC
[10:06:05] <Connor> okay. So, what if I'm using +12v supply from the PC for Field I/O
[10:06:26] <pcw_home> then you no longer have isolation
[10:06:56] <pcw_home> (of the field I/O from the PC)
[10:07:02] <PetefromTn_> I use a standalone 24v power supply for field I/o on the cincinatti and will probably do similar on the lathe
[10:08:06] <pcw_home> Thats the intention, to keep the machines control power/relays/contactors/etc isolated from the PC
[10:08:10] <PetefromTn_> speaking of 7i77 cards, have you guys had a chance to look at my 7i77 I sent in PCW?
[10:08:24] <Connor> If i had my solenoid valves in 24v. and purhcased 24v version of the relays, and had room for 24v PSU, I would have went that route.
[10:08:49] <Rab> <CaptHindsight> http://files.linuxgizmos.com/ibox_nano_extrusions.jpg I've seen better with FDM
[10:09:11] <PetefromTn_> maybe just get a 12v power supply then...
[10:09:30] <Rab> I don't know why somebody would reproduce extrusion with a stack of lateral cross-sections...seems like longitudinal layers would provide much more strength.
[10:10:05] <Connor> PetefromTn_: http://www.ivdc.com/cnc/mill_10_31_14_01.jpg
[10:10:12] <Connor> Not sure where I would put it..
[10:10:29] <pcw_home> The other disadvantage of PC12V power is that it may supply 20A when you dont want it to (like a wiring mistake)
[10:10:42] <PetefromTn_> looks like there's a big hole in the middle there..
[10:10:55] <Connor> I might be able to put another 12v brick next to existing on in the lower right hand side.
[10:10:58] <pcw_home> so a fuse or PTC is in order
[10:11:27] <Connor> The space in the middle is reserved for drivers for 4th axis, etc..
[10:11:32] <CaptHindsight> Rab: the print area on that printer is pretty small. Printing some functionally useful is the farthest thing from their mind.
[10:11:39] <zeeshan|2> i want to triple check this
[10:11:50] <zeeshan|2> parallel port p1 connector on the left
[10:11:58] <zeeshan|2> green connectors facing me
[10:12:05] <zeeshan|2> pin #1 starts from bottom?
[10:12:12] <pcw_home> yes
[10:12:26] <archivist_herron> look close the pins are marked
[10:12:30] <zeeshan|2> are they?
[10:12:41] <Connor> Just like the it's pictured in the manual.
[10:12:50] <zeeshan|2> i see it in the manual
[10:12:51] <Connor> Pin 1 is marked yes.
[10:12:58] <zeeshan|2> but i wanted to triple check :)
[10:13:20] <zeeshan|2> archivist: you lies!
[10:13:24] <zeeshan|2> i dont see it ojn the physical board :D
[10:13:31] <zeeshan|2> i see tb3 for example
[10:13:32] <Connor> PetefromTn_: I got a set of Red Nobs for my rotary switches too from Radio Shack.
[10:13:45] <PetefromTn_> I was talking to art about those this morning
[10:13:52] <PetefromTn_> he said they had knobs there as well
[10:13:56] <PetefromTn_> are they nice?
[10:13:57] <Connor> Yup.
[10:14:08] <Connor> Yea. I think they are.. not bad.. They have a decent selection.
[10:14:19] <Connor> You'll want some resistors too.
[10:14:20] <PetefromTn_> I really would like to add this to the Cincinatti
[10:14:44] <PetefromTn_> It would be nice to get rid of that temp glade VCP stuff for the MPG we did and just have physical switches
[10:15:31] <PetefromTn_> is it possible to have the MPG selectors for axes and step count always active and then be able to select continuous jog with a button?
[10:16:13] <PetefromTn_> I mean right now I have to often press the continuous jog or click on the onscreen continuous button to enable continuous jog after I use the MPG.
[10:16:28] <PetefromTn_> sometimes I have to press it twice for some odd reason.
[10:17:18] <PetefromTn_> It would be nice to do that muxed or whatever setup so you can use less inputs but honestly I still have plenty left and will not be adding too many more short of panel buttons.
[10:17:37] <Connor> I have no idea how interaction between the physical switches and the axis gui are.
[10:18:13] <PetefromTn_> I really need to draw the panel layout in cad and get that started so I can cut the final template plate for the buttons. That way I don't wind up doing shit twice.
[10:18:14] <ssi> morn
[10:18:30] <PetefromTn_> morn
[10:19:31] <PetefromTn_> I wonder how durable the rotary switches they sell at Radio shack are.
[10:20:03] <Rab> As I recall they're terrible quality, using phenolic contact plates.
[10:20:04] <Connor> They're pretty good from what I can tell.
[10:20:16] <Connor> not sure about the contacts
[10:21:05] <Rab> http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v494/CodeMonk/Builds/pRS1C-2160445w345.jpg
[10:21:19] <Connor> I made a resistor ladder.. 2k 1k 1k 1k 1k 1k 1k 2k for a total of 10k for easy math.
[10:21:32] <Connor> each nob position adds another 1k of resistance.
[10:21:45] <PetefromTn_> what can that do
[10:21:49] <Rab> Open-frame, susceptible to dirt. The brown parts holding the contacts are phenolic, they're brittle and can absorb water.
[10:22:12] <PetefromTn_> might need to look for a better quality switch apparently
[10:22:32] <Connor> You but field voltage on the left side if the ladder, ground on the right side.. and the whiper goes to field Input.
[10:22:36] <Rab> Quality rotary switches from e.g. Digi-Key aren't cheap, but you will give them a workout in this application.
[10:23:02] <Connor> as you select a different position, it changes the voltage the input I/O see's.
[10:23:21] <Connor> So, basicly you need 4 wires for 2 switches. :)
[10:23:27] <PetefromTn_> rab got a recommendation?
[10:23:40] <Rab> Grayhill, NKK, C&K are name brands.
[10:24:07] <PetefromTn_> so four inputs total for axes X,Y,Z,A,B and increments up to six places?
[10:24:29] <Connor> 2 inputs.
[10:24:40] <Connor> +24v +GND
[10:24:55] <PetefromTn_> that sounds sweet man.
[10:25:08] <PetefromTn_> I dunno if we already used those inputs on the cinci or not
[10:25:29] <Connor> We can move all the inputs up.. and just rewire in hal. no big deal.
[10:25:57] <PetefromTn_> http://www.ebay.com/itm/1pcs-5-WAY-5-POSITION-CERAMIC-SELECTOR-ROTARY-SWITCH-S-/170712654184?pt=Guitar_Accessories&hash=item27bf446168
[10:25:59] <Rab> I could look for a specific switch, but it depends on the number of poles and contacts you need. This seems like a nice switch, but probably too many positions: http://www.digikey.com/product-detail/en/71BD30-01-1-AJN/GH7101-ND/98663
[10:26:28] <Connor> Those are only 5 position.
[10:26:31] <PetefromTn_> five or six position would be fine
[10:26:44] <PetefromTn_> don't really need six do ya?
[10:27:02] <Rab> Ceramic is better, but the open-frame construction is still susceptible to dirt. Definitely shell out the extra for a name-brand supplier, who can provide ratings for contact life etc.
[10:27:07] <Connor> X Y Z A Spindle Feed
[10:27:19] <pcw_home> you can also use Gray code to cut the number of inputs needed
[10:27:42] <PetefromTn_> how is that done
[10:28:32] <pcw_home> a multi pole switch
[10:28:44] <PetefromTn_> Connor have you already sorted out how to implement all of those adjustments in linuxCNC. Being able to adjust spindle and feedrate with the mpg would be sweet
[10:29:15] <Connor> 2 inputs for 4 selections, 3 inputs for 8 selection, 4 inputs for 16 selections. (per swtich)
[10:29:59] <PetefromTn_> Wow that would be awesome on the Cinci.
[10:30:21] <pcw_home> and Gray rather than binary so you cant get any selection other than adjacent position when turning
[10:30:21] <PetefromTn_> would make general operations go much quicker IE setup and touchoff etc.
[10:30:40] <Connor> I ordered one of these last night too.. http://www.ebay.com/itm/CNC-3-Axis-4-axis-USB-HandWheel-MPG-pendant-for-Mach-3-engraving-Router-system-/181390548620?ssPageName=ADME:L:OC:US:3160
[10:30:57] <PetefromTn_> DId you really!!
[10:31:02] <PetefromTn_> Awe man I want one of those.
[10:31:14] <PetefromTn_> Glad to know I may get to see one here in person
[10:31:36] <PetefromTn_> that looks like a nice setup.
[10:31:50] <Connor> We'll see.
[10:32:05] <Connor> I'm a little nervous about getting the correct one.
[10:32:17] <PetefromTn_> what I don't understand tho is if you have an MPG on the pendant there you bought and one like I do on the main panel how do you differentiate which one is active etc..
[10:32:27] <Connor> pcw_home: How do you read the voltage on inputs 0-4 ?
[10:32:43] <Rab> PetefromTn_, honestly, using a switch to select axes seems too fiddly to me. I have a 3-axis industrial joystick set up as a USB HID for positioning: http://reboots.g-cipher.net/joystick.jpg
[10:32:53] <pcw_home> 0 through 3
[10:33:00] <Connor> sorry. yes.. 0-3
[10:33:12] <zeeshan|2> RAB
[10:33:16] <zeeshan|2> where did you score that
[10:33:16] <zeeshan|2> haha
[10:33:39] <Connor> I have a joystick similar to that from a Power Chair.
[10:33:40] <Rab> zeeshan|2, from a video effects console from a flea market. ;)
[10:33:44] <PetefromTn_> that is nice but how do you figure rotary switches are fiddly>
[10:34:07] <Rab> PetefromTn_, because you have to click-click-click to get to the axis you want.
[10:34:08] <PetefromTn_> they have been making machining centers that way for years.
[10:34:20] <pcw_home> you enable mode 2 on the field I/O (or mode 3 if you want MPG inputs)
[10:34:26] <PetefromTn_> yeah how does your joystick work?
[10:34:38] <Rab> PetefromTn_, that means it's a professional way of doing things, but it doesn't mean it's a good UI.
[10:34:40] <Connor> I'll be doing mode 3 so I can use the MPG
[10:34:51] <Connor> net analog0 hm2_5i25.0.7i76.0.0.analogin0
[10:34:59] <zeeshan|2> very cool
[10:35:21] <_methods> PetefromTn_: are you sure you should be askin him how his joystick works?
[10:35:25] <Connor> then somehow take analog0 check it's value go from there.
[10:35:27] <zeeshan|2> ROFL _methods
[10:35:31] <PetefromTn_> methods.. YUP
[10:35:35] <_methods> heheh
[10:35:45] <Rab> PetefromTn_, there are thresholds in firmware. As the joystick is pushed along any axis, it sends the keycodes to jog faster and faster (and recovers when it moves back to center).
[10:36:05] <PetefromTn_> so this is for jogging
[10:36:21] <PetefromTn_> not incremental
[10:36:27] <Rab> PetefromTn_, it's not really a replacement for a jog wheel, unless I can think of something clever.
[10:36:58] <PetefromTn_> yeah I like the idea but for the Cincinatti I would think the selector rotary switch and the MPG makes more sense.
[10:37:11] <PetefromTn_> the machine actually came that way initially really
[10:37:15] <Rab> PetefromTn_, if I were using a jog wheel, I would use a set of pushbuttons for axis select so you don't have to click back and forth on a rotary switch. I guess that depends on how much pendant real estate you have.
[10:37:45] <PetefromTn_> I have plenty of room but I thought adding the rotary would clean it up a bit.
[10:38:01] <Rab> PetefromTn_, if that interface is familiar and productive for you, I support recreating it.
[10:38:57] <PetefromTn_> well actually it is not familiar the HAAS machines I ran use buttons for axes as you said the Cincinatti came with the rotary switches and I had about a month using it before the control died and I gutted it to start the retrofit.
[10:39:53] <PetefromTn_> either way is fine with me but if we can get more options from the rotary switches and less real estate used up on the panel face it might be better to go with rotary switches I am thinking.
[10:46:00] <Connor> Looking for examples that use analog input in a select case or if then type setup..
[10:47:06] <Connor> I know I've seen someone do this.
[10:47:26] <Rab> Connor, that's exactly what I do with the joystick, but it's in microcontroller firmware. I'd be interested to see an example for HAL instead.
[10:49:34] <Connor> Hmm.. maybe the near component.
[10:51:12] <Connor> yea.. the near component.. can read in a value.. compare to a fixed value.. if the value is within the difference range.. it outputs a high bit.
[10:52:24] <PetefromTn_> so it is measuring a dc voltage or a resistance level?
[10:52:58] <Rab> PetefromTn_, here's a 5-position version of that switch: http://www.digikey.com/product-detail/en/71BD36-01-2-AJN/GH7312-ND/1534717
[10:52:58] <Connor> using the resistor ladder, as a variable voltage divider.. it reads voltage levels.
[10:53:17] <Rab> As a bonus it has two poles, which you can wire up in parallel for greater reliability.
[10:53:40] <PetefromTn_> Rab Thanks man.
[10:54:07] <PetefromTn_> I guess we would actually need six now since connor is looking at adding spindle and feedrate adjustment
[10:54:28] <PetefromTn_> X,Y,Z,A spindle feed
[10:54:45] <Connor> right and on the units.. OFF 1x 10x 100x 1000x 10000x
[10:54:55] <PetefromTn_> yes
[10:55:23] <PetefromTn_> or rather off,.1,.01,.001,.0001
[10:55:23] <Connor> or .1 .01 .001 .0001 .00001
[10:55:43] <PetefromTn_> you don't need that last bit ;)
[10:56:01] <zeeshan|2> can someone host a DWG file?
[10:56:12] <Connor> host it ?
[10:56:14] <jdh> like, on a google drive?
[10:56:27] <PetefromTn_> so a six position switch just like that one rab posted is probably what I need....two of them
[10:56:27] <zeeshan|2> yea i updated the drawing pcw sent
[10:56:29] <zeeshan|2> with pin labels
[10:56:37] <Rab> zeeshan|2, sure, if you can get it to me.
[10:56:57] <PetefromTn_> make it a .dxf
[10:57:03] <zeeshan|2> okay
[10:58:02] <jdh> if it's not too late, make mine a cheeeeezburger.
[10:58:06] <jdh> nevermind.
[10:58:19] * zeeshan|2 hands jdh a rotten cheese burger
[10:58:21] <zeeshan|2> here you has.
[11:00:38] <zeeshan|2> first time ive noticed this
[11:00:42] <zeeshan|2> dwg to dxf
[11:00:47] <zeeshan|2> 548kb to 3.4mb
[11:00:47] <zeeshan|2> lol
[11:00:56] <zeeshan|2> i guess dxf is like a "step" file
[11:01:35] <archivist> dxf is primitive
[11:01:37] <cpresser> .dxf is plaintext. open it with an editor
[11:01:47] <cpresser> dwg is just the same, with compression
[11:02:02] <zeeshan|2> ah
[11:02:20] <zeeshan|2> nice
[11:03:14] <Rab> http://reboots.g-cipher.net/zeeshan/
[11:03:16] <Connor> Is there such think as continues when using a MPG ?
[11:03:24] <zeeshan|2> <3 rab
[11:03:37] <Connor> continuous
[11:04:05] <zeeshan|2> i havent seen that on a mpg
[11:04:15] <zeeshan|2> but there will be a feed hold button on controllers
[11:05:09] <cpresser> Connor: you can use a lowpass-filter for that. i found that info somewhere on the linuxcnc-wiki
[11:05:38] <cpresser> Connor: thats how i did implement it: http://ca.rstenpresser.de/wp-files/2014/11/pendant.hal_.gz
[11:05:51] <varesa> What does a stepper motor current rating mean? Average total current? Max winding current? Something else?
[11:06:37] <archivist> current for stated torque/speed curve
[11:06:41] <Connor> cpresser:So, exactly what does that do for you?
[11:07:21] <varesa> archivist: current measured how?
[11:07:56] <archivist> a current you set in the driver and its design
[11:08:08] <cpresser> Connor: it does smooth out the movement. so instead of single 1mm movements, i get a somehow continous move
[11:09:00] <Connor> on all increment levels ?
[11:09:06] <cpresser> yes
[11:09:37] <cpresser> look at the hal-file. i did not comment it, but its pretty obvious how it works
[11:10:12] <Connor> I could see doing that on a single selection.. but not all of them..
[11:10:51] <cpresser> in the end, the movement is exact
[11:11:10] <varesa> archivist: I know how to set it, but what exactly does that setting do? Is it per-winding or the total for the motor? Average or max/peak?
[11:11:19] <cpresser> but not seperated into small steps. all it does is smooth out the single exact movements
[11:12:43] <archivist> varesa, depends how you connect the windings too, there is bipolar (series/parallel) and unipolar
[11:13:35] <archivist> varesa, read a datasheet for a particular motor , but generally it is per coil
[11:17:46] <varesa> archivist: okay. The reason I'm asking is I thought I'd make some more modern drives for my mill as a hobby/fun/learning project and I was trying to figure out how to size the FETs etc.
[11:19:21] <varesa> Well, reading the datasheet is not really easy. Right now this is as much information as I have on them: https://groups.google.com/forum/#!msg/terco-mill-owner/8aHsjeYBoDc/JRhxJ_nWUHEJ Even that is from another, not necessary identical, machine from the same manufacturer
[11:22:19] <archivist> I would just retrofit with a leadshine or gecko drive with sensible 30-60v supply
[11:24:49] <PetefromTn_> oh cool is that a terco mini machining center? Does it have the little toolchanger?
[11:26:00] <zeeshan|2> PCW can i use one pair of enables through a relay to enable all servo drives?
[11:26:06] <zeeshan|2> or will that be too much current consumption
[11:26:06] <varesa> PetefromTn_: This looking thing: https://www.dropbox.com/s/4wyngnjw1ei6gfx/2014-10-26%2016.26.04.jpg?dl=0
[11:26:16] <zeeshan|2> enables on the 7i77 that is
[11:26:38] <varesa> It has a small pneumatic quick release thing and a tool holder that screws on to the end of the table
[11:26:44] <PetefromTn_> yeah I think some of those came with tiny toolchangers on them pretty sweet little machine.
[11:27:02] <PetefromTn_> yup
[11:27:03] <pcw_home> normally you wire each enable to each drive
[11:27:06] <PetefromTn_> sweet little machine.
[11:27:37] <varesa> PetefromTn_: Yeah. I think I just need to get new drives for it before it is really usable
[11:27:54] <zeeshan|2> pcw_home: yes, but i have an e-stop relay
[11:27:59] <zeeshan|2> that kills power to servo drives
[11:28:04] <PetefromTn_> check out those new leadshine closed loop steppers and drivers
[11:28:07] <zeeshan|2> i'd need to run 5 relays if i ran seeperate signals
[11:28:36] <pcw_home> you dont need relays for the enables
[11:28:58] <zeeshan|2> what turns off the power to the servo drives when i press e-stop?
[11:29:00] <varesa> PetefromTn_: sounds expensive :p
[11:29:27] <PetefromTn_> not really just a bit more than an open loop stepper and drive combo
[11:29:32] <pcw_home> that should be a contactor tha removes primary power from the drives/spindle
[11:29:51] <zeeshan|2> pcw_home: i don't want to do that
[11:30:05] <pcw_home> It must be done that way
[11:30:16] <pcw_home> not safe otherwise
[11:30:37] <zeeshan|2> in the vfd manuals it says not to power cycle the vfd
[11:30:46] <zeeshan|2> they have a pin for external fault
[11:31:13] <pcw_home> you _must_ remove primary power on estop
[11:32:07] <pcw_home> nothing else can really guarantee no motion
[11:32:33] <PetefromTn_> varesa Some inspiration!! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3-HtGWHNXPM
[11:32:42] <pcw_home> Estop should not happen very often...
[11:33:04] <jdh> nifty looking machine. I assume you aren't married.
[11:33:50] <varesa> jdh: no I'm not
[11:34:09] <PetefromTn_> why do you say that hehe
[11:34:53] <varesa> but I am a student so all the ready-made drives look really expensive :(
[11:34:59] <pcw_home> the drive enables are typically wired to the motion enable signal in HAL so the drives can be disabled by a following error
[11:35:00] <pcw_home> and are not enabled until linuxcnc has control (PID loops closed)
[11:35:31] <pcw_home> E-Stop is totally separate
[11:36:26] <zeeshan|2> sigh
[11:36:29] <zeeshan|2> it just seems so aggressive
[11:36:39] <zeeshan|2> to kill the power to the primary on the servo drives and vfd spindles
[11:36:43] <zeeshan|2> thats gonna cause a massive arc
[11:36:52] <zeeshan|2> especially if things are at full load
[11:37:24] <zeeshan|2> it's been a long time so i could be wrongb
[11:37:25] <pcw_home> well it should only happen in an emergency
[11:37:31] <varesa> even something like mx3660 is more than what I paid for the mill :(
[11:37:33] <zeeshan|2> but i remember the siemens control @ work
[11:37:40] <zeeshan|2> when you pressed e-stop, you could still hear the VFD fans running
[11:38:03] <zeeshan|2> to access the control panel, you had to do a lockout procedure, where you taged out the disconnect switch
[11:38:24] <pcw_home> fans may be on a separate circuit (and often are to)
[11:38:34] <zeeshan|2> it was standard procedure that machine operators @ the end of the shift would press e-stop before leaving
[11:38:44] <zeeshan|2> (24hour facility, so 3 e-stop events per day)
[11:39:23] <zeeshan|2> what button are you spposed to press when you can see a tool is about to crash into the spindle?
[11:39:27] <zeeshan|2> we usually pressed e-stop
[11:39:50] <PetefromTn_> you only press estop at the end of the day AFTER the machine is powered down and drives disabled.
[11:39:52] <pcw_home> thats what its for
[11:40:08] <zeeshan|2> PetefromTn_: we wouldnt power down the machines
[11:40:15] <zeeshan|2> cause otherwise you'd need a warm up procedure
[11:40:26] <zeeshan|2> the only time machines were shut down was during a lightning storm
[11:40:29] <PetefromTn_> you left drives enabled all the time during the night?
[11:40:35] <zeeshan|2> yep
[11:40:40] <zeeshan|2> nightshift would be working on the machine
[11:40:47] <PetefromTn_> you ALWAYS warm up a machine after night cold sets in.
[11:40:58] <zeeshan|2> please read what i said..
[11:40:59] <PetefromTn_> well thats different
[11:41:01] <zeeshan|2> its a 24 hour facility
[11:41:09] <zeeshan|2> the machines never are idle
[11:41:17] <PetefromTn_> then why do they hit estop?
[11:41:28] <zeeshan|2> because theres a 30 min delay in between each shift
[11:41:29] <zeeshan|2> sometimes 1 hour
[11:41:33] <zeeshan|2> depending on shift meeting
[11:41:38] <PetefromTn_> so just power down the drives
[11:41:45] <PetefromTn_> no need to go into estop for that
[11:41:52] <jdh> that's a nifty looking machine. you should cut your losses and just sell it to me.
[11:42:49] <PetefromTn_> if there is a 30 minute delay between shifts and they want the machines in estop for safety reasons then repowering it would not necessitate a warmup program
[11:43:12] <zeeshan|2> PCW: can you explain why its unsafe to just disable the drive?
[11:43:25] <varesa> or just put the original drives back in and hope they work? ;)
[11:43:37] <zeeshan|2> you're thinking a stray voltage might come into the +/-10v analog signal
[11:43:40] <zeeshan|2> and cause the servo to move?
[11:43:59] <pcw_home> because a componat failure couls cause a runaway you cant stop
[11:44:18] <zeeshan|2> i guess what i need is a "SOFT e-stop"
[11:44:21] <zeeshan|2> and a real e-stop
[11:44:21] <zeeshan|2> haha
[11:44:21] <pcw_home> Estop _MUST_ remove primary drive power
[11:45:17] <zeeshan|2> looks like i'm going to need to add a contactor on the lathe panel
[11:45:18] <zeeshan|2> :P
[11:45:45] <pcw_home> Its already there (drive faults/ ferrors disable the drive, but the BRS disconnects power)
[11:46:22] <pcw_home> so the drive enables are not related to E-Stop
[11:47:01] <pcw_home> The mill must have had the contactor to begin with
[11:47:23] <zeeshan|2> it had a lot of em
[11:49:34] <zeeshan|2> looks like im going to have to redraw all my power distribution stuff
[11:49:34] <zeeshan|2> :/
[11:49:50] <PetefromTn_> My Cincinatti has estop and limits tied together so all power to drives is killed in either situation. I HIGHLY recommend this setup. I use a limit override to be able to jog the machine off the limit. You really should never hit a limit once the machine is homed out and you have the envelope settings correct.
[11:49:53] <Connor> zeeshan|2: I think I told you this last night.. did I not? :)
[11:49:59] <zeeshan|2> yea
[11:50:01] <zeeshan|2> but istill dont wanna do it
[11:50:04] <zeeshan|2> seems too aggresive
[11:50:12] <zeeshan|2> if shits really going wrong
[11:50:17] <zeeshan|2> main breaker is right there
[11:50:51] <Connor> Yes, but.. what if your arm is caught in the machine and a friend is over? They know to hit the big red button..
[11:51:02] <PetefromTn_> main breaker is USUALLY on the back of the machine..
[11:51:04] <zeeshan|2> if my arm is caught in the machine
[11:51:05] <zeeshan|2> i deserve to die
[11:51:19] <cradek> PetefromTn_: my vmc has the limit switches directly in the estop loop too. there is a button on the side of the console you have to hold in, to override them
[11:51:33] <PetefromTn_> yes that is exactly what I have.
[11:51:42] <zeeshan|2> okay look
[11:51:46] <PetefromTn_> I cannot imagine having it any other way
[11:51:51] <zeeshan|2> so if e-stop REALLY is suipposed to be a situational thing
[11:51:55] <zeeshan|2> why can't i just put a main contactor
[11:51:58] <zeeshan|2> and kill power to the entire machine
[11:52:02] <zeeshan|2> including computer, fans everything
[11:52:07] <zeeshan|2> it'll be just 1 wire then.
[11:52:09] <zeeshan|2> and 1 contactor
[11:52:15] <PetefromTn_> that would suck
[11:52:21] <jdh> pain in the ass
[11:52:22] <Connor> I'm debating on using my stepper enable at all.. I sometimes use the software machine off button.. but.. it currently toggles the stepper enable.. which technically means I should rehome when I power back on.
[11:52:23] <PetefromTn_> you would then lose position and everything
[11:52:26] <cradek> it sucks to lose position on estop
[11:52:33] <cradek> it makes you think twice or four times before hitting it
[11:52:37] <cradek> that's not a benefit to anybody
[11:52:56] <zeeshan|2> can you imagine the amount of arcing you'll get if your spindle is actually consuming 5hp
[11:52:56] <PetefromTn_> my drives actually have two sides to their input power, logic and drive
[11:52:58] <zeeshan|2> and you hit e-stop?
[11:53:06] <PetefromTn_> when I hit estop it is only the drive side that is killed.
[11:53:16] <zeeshan|2> versus just allowing it to coast
[11:53:22] <zeeshan|2> or dc brake
[11:53:28] <PetefromTn_> the logic side remains on and still tracks position
[11:53:54] <cradek> on estop, the bridgeport actually disconnected the motors from the drives and shorted them with contactors
[11:54:02] <cradek> (that helps it brake)
[11:54:05] <Connor> zeeshan|2: I already told you.. 2 sets.. 1 for the 120v stuff that needs to stay alive during a estop even.. (besides, you don't want to shutdown the PC dirty) and one buss bar set with the contactor in series..
[11:54:08] <PetefromTn_> if it bothers you that much leave the spindle out of the estop chain maybe
[11:54:12] <cradek> beware some drives might explode if you do that, but this was original equipment
[11:54:31] <zeeshan|2> connor it's not as easy.
[11:54:41] <PetefromTn_> that way actual movement is killed but the spindle would coast to a stop.
[11:54:44] <zeeshan|2> the wiring will get messy
[11:54:50] <Connor> zeeshan|2: Do it the right way.. or the easy way..
[11:54:59] <zeeshan|2> if anything i should have a contactor for each servo drive, each motor
[11:55:00] <cradek> zeeshan|2: is this for your use, or for the use of others?
[11:55:04] <zeeshan|2> cradek mine
[11:55:06] <PetefromTn_> then if the spindle motor catches fire or something you would need to run around back and kill the mains.
[11:55:14] <cradek> ah good
[11:55:15] <zeeshan|2> if it was for someone else
[11:55:22] <zeeshan|2> i'd obv kill the power
[11:55:26] <zeeshan|2> and let them deal with a blown up vfd
[11:55:33] <Connor> THEN DO IT RIGHT FOR YOUSELF TOO :)
[11:55:47] <Connor> It's not that much more work..
[11:55:52] <zeeshan|2> its 8 contactors
[11:55:56] <zeeshan|2> which take up space
[11:55:59] <PetefromTn_> I only have two
[11:56:00] <Connor> NO it's not.
[11:56:20] <Connor> It's at most 2
[11:56:28] <Connor> 1 for 3 phase, 1 for 1 phase.
[11:56:29] <zeeshan|2> 1 for the servo drives
[11:56:36] <zeeshan|2> 1 for spindle?
[11:56:39] <Connor> YES!
[11:56:52] <zeeshan|2> theres 5 breakers
[11:56:57] <zeeshan|2> each feeding each servo drive
[11:57:06] <zeeshan|2> how do i use 1 contactor in between the breakers and drives?
[11:57:16] <zeeshan|2> i'd need a 5 pole breaker
[11:57:21] <zeeshan|2> er 5 pole contactor
[11:57:30] <Connor> You feed the breakers after contactor
[11:57:37] <zeeshan|2> i can't do that
[11:57:40] <Connor> Why ?
[11:57:58] <zeeshan|2> because i already have a breaker box.
[11:58:09] <zeeshan|2> i'm not buying a new set of din power distribution rails
[11:58:11] <zeeshan|2> and new breakers
[11:58:22] <Connor> Did your old system not have DIN mounted breakers ?
[11:58:35] <Connor> and din mounted contactors ?
[11:58:36] <zeeshan|2> it did for the lubricator and coolanmt pump and hydraulic pump
[11:58:45] <zeeshan|2> yea i have tons of contactors..
[11:58:59] <zeeshan|2> i'm thinking ill just use 2 3 pole contactors
[11:58:59] <Connor> No breaker for the servo's or spindle ?
[11:59:16] <zeeshan|2> Connor: nope
[11:59:18] <zeeshan|2> it was fused
[11:59:37] <zeeshan|2> if use 2 3 pole contactors, that gives me 6 contacts to break
[11:59:51] <zeeshan|2> and then have another contactor just for the spindle vfd
[12:01:01] <pcw_home> Thats pretty strange wiring, it should be one 2 pole contactor feeding the breakers to the drives
[12:01:14] <Connor> Yup.
[12:01:25] <Connor> He's using a house hold breaker panel
[12:01:34] <zeeshan|2> ^
[12:01:53] <zeeshan|2> and you guys were the ones suggesting
[12:01:57] <zeeshan|2> well not you
[12:01:58] <zeeshan|2> i think it was ssi
[12:02:22] <zeeshan|2> who was suggesting that when i go from 3awg -> distribution -> 14 awg -> breaker -> servo drive
[12:02:33] <zeeshan|2> the distribution to breaker 14 awg wire
[12:02:36] <zeeshan|2> is unprotected
[12:02:46] <zeeshan|2> which was the main reason i got a breaker panel to begin with
[12:02:54] <zeeshan|2> cause the breaker leg attaches directly to the bus
[12:02:56] <Connor> It's inside the panel.. it's protected.
[12:03:13] <pcw_home> its also protected by the 16A fuse in the drive
[12:04:25] <zeeshan|2> okay so i can use the siemens bolt on breakers then
[12:04:30] <zeeshan|2> :P
[12:04:34] <Connor> Duh! :)
[12:04:42] <zeeshan|2> im going to triple check with you guys
[12:04:52] <zeeshan|2> cause this is not something i'm used to doing.
[12:04:57] <zeeshan|2> i've always done it differently
[12:05:01] <Connor> Go look at a industrial CNC panel.. You'll see breakers, concators, din mounted fuses etc all in the same enclosure.
[12:05:08] <zeeshan|2> Connor: i know
[12:05:17] <zeeshan|2> i worked with EE's doing mech eng design for em
[12:05:27] <zeeshan|2> i just got thrown off by that breaker to distribution wire thing
[12:06:52] <Connor> Depending on how your contactors are.. you may be able to break off and go direct from them into the servo breakers instead of using a DIN block as a buss..
[12:07:04] <Connor> but, using a buss is preferred method.
[12:09:20] <recon_lap> hi, I'm using Visolate to create some g-code for a PCB, traces going ok, but I'm wondering how to get the g-code for drilling the holes?
[12:12:51] <Rab> recon_lap, which EDA software did you use for authoring the PCB?
[12:13:38] <zeeshan|2> http://i.imgur.com/5efKSf4.png
[12:13:39] <zeeshan|2> okay
[12:13:43] <zeeshan|2> triple check time
[12:14:03] <zeeshan|2> the wires in circled in pink (yes i know PINK!)
[12:14:04] <recon_lap> Rab: the gbr file is being generated from Eagle of thats what you asking
[12:14:10] <Rab> recon_lap, yah
[12:14:11] <zeeshan|2> will they not go on fire
[12:14:18] <zeeshan|2> if they short on the chassis
[12:14:27] <zeeshan|2> cause the upstream breaker is 100a..
[12:14:43] <zeeshan|2> the only way it wouldnt go on fire is if it was 3awg..
[12:17:03] <Rab> recon_lap, try this: http://eng-serve.com/cnc/excellon_gcode.html
[12:18:09] <recon_lap> Rab: thx, I'll give that a try, any other links? very new to this, first PCB and first CNC
[12:18:53] <Rab> recon_lap, I'm new as well. I hear FlatCAM can do drilling as well as milling: http://flatcam.org/
[12:21:00] <recon_lap> Rab: flatcam looks better than visolate , I'll defiantly give that a look.
[12:22:32] <zeeshan|2> the experts dissapeared :{
[12:23:13] <Connor> Why would they short on the chassis ?
[12:23:22] <Connor> Are you not going to have them inside wire duct ?
[12:23:36] <zeeshan|2> a mouse comes in the control cabinet
[12:23:40] <zeeshan|2> and chews on the wire :P
[12:24:37] <zeeshan|2> depending on space
[12:24:43] <recon_lap> damn, flatCAM is windows warze
[12:24:44] <zeeshan|2> i might use wire duct or zip tie mounts
[12:25:00] <Connor> The length of that wire is going to be what.. 1 foot max ?
[12:25:09] <zeeshan|2> yea
[12:25:10] <zeeshan|2> at most!
[12:25:26] <zeeshan|2> it'll i guess go from the din terminal block
[12:25:34] <Connor> It may not even be in duct.. may be free hanging into a din block.
[12:25:40] <zeeshan|2> to the breaker
[12:25:42] <zeeshan|2> and then the contactor
[12:25:48] <zeeshan|2> er
[12:25:51] <zeeshan|2> contactor then breaker.
[12:26:02] <recon_lap> hang on, it's python , all is ok
[12:26:28] <Connor> SOURCE --> MAIN BREAKER ---> DIN BUSS BLOCK --> CONTACTOR --> VFD
[12:26:35] <Connor> For the VFD.
[12:26:49] <zeeshan|2> you be missing breaker
[12:27:00] <Connor> sorry.. after the contactor
[12:27:03] <Connor> the vfs
[12:27:06] <Connor> vfd
[12:27:41] <zeeshan|2> http://www.cooperindustries.com/content/dam/public/bussmann/Electrical/Products/power-distribution-blocks/Images/Terminal%20Blocks/bus-ele-dm20-220.jpg
[12:27:49] <zeeshan|2> i have those style
[12:27:53] <zeeshan|2> are they shorted internally?
[12:28:13] <Connor> I have no idea. You'll have to tone it out.
[12:28:48] <Connor> Mine have a center tap that lets me short them together.. or you can use a buss bar that looks like a comb in the top or bottom terminal lugs.
[12:29:09] <zeeshan|2> im going to need one for L1 and L2
[12:29:17] <zeeshan|2> also i just realized
[12:29:17] <Connor> and netural
[12:29:26] <zeeshan|2> 3 of my vfds get powered off L2
[12:29:30] <zeeshan|2> and 2 get powered of L1
[12:29:32] <zeeshan|2> to balance load
[12:29:36] <zeeshan|2> so i'm going to need 3 contactors regardless
[12:29:58] <Connor> and you can use the DIN rail itself as ground bar if you get ground DIN terminal blocks
[12:30:37] <Connor> Neutral buss bar will be shared with L1 and L2 loads.
[12:30:45] <zeeshan|2> thats fine
[12:30:46] <Connor> as will earth ground
[12:30:58] <zeeshan|2> no
[12:31:05] <zeeshan|2> neutral bus bar and ground bar are seperate
[12:31:13] <zeeshan|2> they can only be bonded @ the main panel
[12:31:14] <Connor> That's not what I said.
[12:31:19] <Connor> I know that.
[12:31:32] <Connor> The DIN rail itself will be earth ground.
[12:31:47] <zeeshan|2> whats wrong with having a real ground block
[12:31:50] <zeeshan|2> :P
[12:32:00] <Connor> That is a real ground block.
[12:32:07] <zeeshan|2> yea but where are the terminals
[12:32:25] <zeeshan|2> i guess you can get terminal blocks
[12:32:27] <zeeshan|2> that short to the din rail?
[12:32:31] <Connor> http://www.ebay.com/itm/Connectwell-CGT4U-Ground-Connector-Terminal-Blocks-NEW-DIN-Rail-/251679959700?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item3a994b6a94
[12:32:37] <Connor> Yup. Like that.
[12:32:38] <zeeshan|2> gotcha!
[12:32:47] <zeeshan|2> okay well
[12:32:51] <Connor> I have 5 setting here with me on the desk.
[12:32:51] <zeeshan|2> this way the setup is going to look a lot cleaner
[12:32:59] <zeeshan|2> but im still going to have a seperate button called
[12:33:00] <Connor> Duh! :)
[12:33:00] <zeeshan|2> "STOP"
[12:33:04] <zeeshan|2> not E-stop
[12:33:19] <zeeshan|2> stop when enabled will tell cnc to shut off power to servo drives
[12:33:21] <Connor> That's fine. you should have a Machine Power button.
[12:33:22] <zeeshan|2> and send a fault over modbus
[12:33:34] <Connor> it's not stop.. it's MACHINE POWER
[12:33:42] <zeeshan|2> call it whatever!
[12:33:45] <zeeshan|2> its my stop button!
[12:33:50] <zeeshan|2> if im about to detect a spindle crash
[12:33:51] <zeeshan|2> i press it!
[12:33:53] <Connor> It doesn't kill power to anything. it just disables the drivers and the spindle.
[12:34:01] <Connor> but in a non-failsafe way.
[12:34:10] <Connor> and in a way that makes it so you don't have to rehome
[12:34:15] <zeeshan|2> yes
[12:34:22] <zeeshan|2> so you press the machine power buttoin
[12:34:23] <zeeshan|2> if it fails
[12:34:25] <zeeshan|2> you press e-stop
[12:34:36] <Connor> In fact.. LinuxCNC has a software button just for that..
[12:34:51] <pcw_home> linuxcnc must be able to enable and disable the drives
[12:35:00] <Connor> Right.
[12:35:01] <zeeshan|2> i';m going to definitely going to go back and redo my lathe stuff
[12:35:07] <zeeshan|2> cause it's definitely not fail safe
[12:35:11] <zeeshan|2> and i'm sending the bill to you connor
[12:35:16] <zeeshan|2> when my vfd blows up on first e-stop
[12:35:18] <zeeshan|2> :-)
[12:37:07] <Connor> Why would you vfd blow on estop ?
[12:37:17] <zeeshan|2> sudden discharge of caps
[12:37:18] <zeeshan|2> :P
[12:37:34] <Connor> You need to make sure your LOGIC PSU to it isn't on the contactor side of the power distro
[12:37:53] <Connor> logic PSU needs to be on as soon as main break is active.
[12:38:01] <zeeshan|2> huh
[12:38:23] <Connor> Does your VFD not have a logic power input ?
[12:38:23] <zeeshan|2> vfd takes l1 and l2
[12:38:30] <zeeshan|2> thers no logic power input
[12:38:40] <Connor> You sure?
[12:39:33] <Connor> What's the model # of the VFD ?
[12:39:50] <zeeshan|2> im uploading the diagrams
[12:40:59] <zeeshan|2> http://i.imgur.com/uVBqD3f.png
[12:41:01] <zeeshan|2> vfd 1
[12:41:06] <zeeshan|2> http://i.imgur.com/GNb8lGd.png vfd2
[12:41:33] <zeeshan|2> er
[12:41:41] <zeeshan|2> the sumitomo has seperate power for control circuit
[12:41:52] <Connor> http://i.imgur.com/GNb8lGd.png that one.. has control power.
[12:41:52] <zeeshan|2> but the eaton doesnt
[12:42:31] <Connor> Is that a 1 phase or 3 phase input ?
[12:42:33] <Connor> or both ?
[12:43:23] <zeeshan|2> both can do 1 phase input
[12:43:44] <Connor> okay. The one you want to keep logic or control power on is the spindle VFD.
[12:43:59] <Connor> The other is what, hydro or coolant ?
[12:44:18] <PetefromTn_> you might be better off just setting up a physical button for the servo enable in linuxcnc that controls enables to your drives and have another one for servo DIS able somehow. Instead of another entire circuit just for your feel good stop button....
[12:44:36] <zeeshan|2> hydro and coolant
[12:44:39] <zeeshan|2> 2 sep vfds for that
[12:44:44] <zeeshan|2> i dont think they need to be in the e-stop loop
[12:44:49] <Connor> okay.. Those will be fine.
[12:44:56] <Connor> Yes, they need to be in estop.
[12:45:01] <zeeshan|2> why
[12:45:06] <zeeshan|2> coolant is going to cut my hand?
[12:45:09] <zeeshan|2> :-)
[12:45:12] <Connor> what happens if your pump busts a hose..
[12:45:20] <zeeshan|2> coolant goes everywhere
[12:45:23] <zeeshan|2> thats ok
[12:45:34] <Connor> Just put them in the e-stop.
[12:45:37] <zeeshan|2> :)
[12:45:39] <Jymmm> zeeshan|2: What if it splashes in your eyes?
[12:45:44] <zeeshan|2> Jymmm: i melt
[12:45:54] <Jymmm> zeeshan|2: we can only wish.
[12:46:29] <PetefromTn_> :D
[12:46:44] <Connor> The ONLY THING that's shouldn't be on estop is the following: Computer, 7i77 field voltage, Lamps, control power for VFD, 24v PSU
[12:47:14] <zeeshan|2> 5v psu too
[12:47:25] <Connor> If it's turning a motor or a actuator, it needs to be on estop.
[12:47:33] <Computer_Barf1> Connor have you put much thought into a 4th axis for G0704?
[12:47:38] <Connor> yes, 5v PSU would be some sort of logic PSU
[12:47:53] <PetefromTn_> yeah he did its at my house LOL
[12:47:54] <Connor> Computer_Barf1: Tons. But no action as of yet.
[12:48:04] <zeeshan|2> this is weird
[12:48:11] <zeeshan|2> this manual doesnt tell me how much draw the control side takes
[12:48:13] <zeeshan|2> on the vfd
[12:48:24] <Connor> Well.. yea.. the little manual rotary table..
[12:48:34] <Connor> zeeshan|2: It's low current.
[12:48:41] <PetefromTn_> little is a good description ;)
[12:48:41] <Connor> don't even put it on a breaker.
[12:48:59] <zeeshan|2> well i need to protect the wire
[12:49:02] <zeeshan|2> that goes to it
[12:49:07] <Connor> Then fuse it.
[12:49:11] <Computer_Barf1> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b2-Kdud7eiA
[12:49:17] <zeeshan|2> unless this thing has an internal fuse
[12:49:44] <Connor> Computer_Barf1: Very similar to what I want to build.
[12:50:02] <PetefromTn_> then why the hell did you buy this little rotab?
[12:50:03] <Connor> I love the wifes comments. :)
[12:50:10] <Computer_Barf1> yeah lol thats funny
[12:50:12] <Connor> PetefromTn_: It was GIVEN to me. :)
[12:50:24] <Computer_Barf1> i wonder if you can put the tools on the side of the head like that
[12:51:27] <PetefromTn_> LOL My wife would be like.......Wow that's nice honey.... now leave me alone and go play with your toys in the shop hehe
[12:51:52] <Computer_Barf1> she knew what a lathe was
[12:51:57] <Connor> Sending my wife the link to it.. telling her that's the appropriate response to demos.
[12:52:08] <Connor> She knew about the flats too.
[12:52:09] <Computer_Barf1> you know how many times ive tried to explain a lathe to my wife
[12:52:36] <PetefromTn_> oh my wife knows what all of that stuff is....she just doesn't give a shit hehe
[12:52:45] <zeeshan|2> same with my gf :{
[12:52:49] <zeeshan|2> she helps me move stuff
[12:52:52] <zeeshan|2> and helps in the garage
[12:52:59] <zeeshan|2> but runs away asap the help is finished haha
[12:53:41] <PetefromTn_> I gotta say last weekend my wife helped me clean my ENTIRE SHOP!! I mean every little corner and organize stuff. We found shit I forgot I had hehe
[12:53:46] <Computer_Barf1> Connor: are you going to buy a spindel or make one?
[12:54:12] <Connor> Computer_Barf1: I'm going to get a 5C collet index and use it as the spindle and build the rest.
[12:54:19] <zeeshan|2> connor think its internally fused?
[12:54:22] <zeeshan|2> cause when i read the manual
[12:54:27] <Computer_Barf1> I was thinking maybe you would machine two steady rests, then put on temporary pully , thing grind it round,
[12:54:33] <zeeshan|2> it says "please contact r1 and ... before the contactor"
[12:54:36] <zeeshan|2> on primary side
[12:54:52] <zeeshan|2> i wish they'd just say its fused!
[12:55:26] <Connor> Put a fuse on it.. they make din mounted fuse holders
[12:55:33] <zeeshan|2> i have tons of fuse holders :P
[12:55:37] <zeeshan|2> but why waste space
[12:55:39] <zeeshan|2> when not needed!
[12:55:53] <Connor> It probably is internally fused..
[12:56:00] <zeeshan|2> ill open it up
[12:56:04] <zeeshan|2> and see if i can find one
[12:56:16] <Connor> Computer_Barf1: http://www.ebay.com/itm/5C-PRECISION-SPIN-INDEX-FIXTURE-COLLET-FOR-MILLING-NEW-/350468227596?pt=BI_Tool_Work_Holding&hash=item519988c20c
[12:56:57] <Computer_Barf1> yes was just trying to figure out how you would go from that to making a spindle
[12:57:03] <Connor> I'll take one of those. and mount it in a 7x10 or 7x12 spindle casting with the correct bearings.. or make my own spindle housing out of Alumn
[12:57:19] <zeeshan|2> holy cow
[12:57:20] <zeeshan|2> thats cheap
[12:57:30] <zeeshan|2> whats it saying for shipping in usa for you guys
[12:57:39] <Connor> 16.21
[12:57:43] <zeeshan|2> so lucky
[12:57:47] <zeeshan|2> says 70$ for me
[12:57:48] <jdh> $17
[12:57:52] <jdh> plus customs
[12:57:53] <Computer_Barf1> 19.57
[12:58:03] <Connor> http://www.grizzly.com/products/5-C-Spin-Index/G5649
[12:58:09] <Connor> same thing as that..
[12:58:48] <CaptHindsight> free local pickup
[12:58:49] <jdh> getting chilly here. It's almost lathe season!
[12:59:12] <PetefromTn_> I used to have several of those spin indexers here for the gunstock carving duplicators I built
[12:59:26] <PetefromTn_> I sold my duplicator but should have kept the two it used.
[12:59:26] <CaptHindsight> jdh: whats chilly for you? We are going to be below freezing all next week.
[12:59:41] <PetefromTn_> they are handy little bastards.
[12:59:43] <jdh> Capt: below 70f
[12:59:53] <PetefromTn_> cheap too
[12:59:57] <CaptHindsight> ok so comforatble
[13:00:18] <jdh> really, I'd go for < 55f being chilly.
[13:01:35] <jdh> but it will be 45f in the morning when I get on the boat. That will be pretty damned chilly with the wind.
[13:01:38] <CaptHindsight> lows in the teens and snow, this winter might be like last one
[13:02:04] <jdh> we had a few days sub-20 last Dec. That is pretty freakishly cold for here.
[13:02:19] <jdh> but it's ok, obama will save us!
[13:04:10] <Computer_Barf1> they want it less warm. I mean less change. No more change.
[13:04:59] <Computer_Barf1> Im sure now that the republicans are in charge, everything will be fine. LOL.
[13:05:39] <PetefromTn_> we saw negative temps last year for the first time since I lived here.
[13:06:00] <PetefromTn_> Before that in 15 years of being in tennessee the lowest temp I ever saw was 9 degrees.
[13:06:29] <PetefromTn_> either way pretty freakin' cold especially for someone who grew up in South Florida.
[13:06:48] <Computer_Barf1> All the joy I felt from seeing all the democrats was pretty well ruined by having to accept that they would be replaced by republicans.
[13:07:12] <Computer_Barf1> * by the democrats getting voted out
[13:07:45] <PetefromTn_> Meh they are all freakin' crooks with their own interests at heart. If they are not that way when they get in there they soon will be it is a vicious cycle
[13:08:58] <Connor> PetefromTn_: I'm really aggravated with Amendment 1 and 2 passing.. BADLY worded.. basically TN looses the right to VOTE on new judges..
[13:09:23] <Connor> and they opened the door to more abortion regulations..
[13:10:37] <Computer_Barf1> im not pro life but
[13:10:52] <Computer_Barf1> isn't TN pretty proximate to a whole number of states
[13:11:29] <Computer_Barf1> i mean worst case there will likely always be somewhere you can get it
[13:11:51] <Computer_Barf1> that's how i felt about that whole hobby lobby drama
[13:11:52] <PetefromTn_> like I said.....CROOKS!!
[13:12:17] <Computer_Barf1> i mean like there is a CVS usually right accross the street from hobby lobby
[13:12:36] <Connor> What about Hobby Lobby ?
[13:12:38] <cradek> Computer_Barf1: sure unless you're poor, right? who cares about them.
[13:13:16] <cradek> Computer_Barf1: there's always another country you can travel to for health care too, right? who cares.
[13:13:30] <Computer_Barf1> i don't really feel alot when people make access arguments. I don't think the government should be making decisions on any of this stuff anyway though.
[13:14:10] <Computer_Barf1> Well being poor has obvious solutions. The state can't derisk life for you.
[13:14:42] <cradek> heh yep, go back in time and be born in the right place with the right opportunities and the right skin color, like I was
[13:14:42] <Computer_Barf1> We already know of far more effective ways to solve poverty than to get government involved.
[13:15:34] <jdh> Pete: I saw sub-zero pretty much every year I was in .tn.us
[13:15:36] <PetefromTn_> If you got a way let me know LOL I might need it if I can't get this shop rolling heh
[13:15:42] <Computer_Barf1> No the means im talking about help anyone willing. Everyone has been lifted for several centuries by what I am alluding to.
[13:16:10] <PetefromTn_> really I have never seen below 9 degrees before last year...
[13:16:37] <PetefromTn_> I am talking WITHOUT wind chill here actual temp
[13:16:48] <Computer_Barf1> It wasn't that long ago when kings couldn't access toilet paper. People take for granted the amazing wealth we have today, even the poor. Consider what goes into making a simple number 2 pencil.
[13:17:16] <PetefromTn_> when the damn wind is blowing all bets are off...
[13:17:39] <Connor> ANYWAY... moving AWAY from Politics and Religion etc.. and back to LInuxCNC, CNC stuff and machining.. :)
[13:18:22] <Computer_Barf1> I find the whole don't talk about politics or religoin meme to be quite the stopthink
[13:18:23] <CaptHindsight> http://www.ritholtz.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2014/11/B1rXRL2CUAACGTr.jpg
[13:18:51] <PetefromTn_> thats the problem talking politics and religion IS a stop think..
[13:18:52] <Computer_Barf1> we're making stuff right? the value of production is related.
[13:19:09] <CaptHindsight> PetefromTn_: did you buy those nema34 ac servos from China?
[13:19:12] <Computer_Barf1> well my position isn't political
[13:19:19] <Computer_Barf1> and i didn't bring up religion
[13:19:27] <pcw_home> all positions are political
[13:19:39] <Computer_Barf1> then we can't stop talking about it then
[13:19:47] <PetefromTn_> CaptHindsight Well that depends on how you view it.
[13:19:48] <Computer_Barf1> its inevitable.
[13:19:50] <Computer_Barf1> lol
[13:20:11] <pcw_home> Yes you can take it to an appropriate channel
[13:20:14] <Computer_Barf1> I generally consider my position to be antipolitical though.
[13:20:16] <PetefromTn_> I bought my servos and drives from Machmotion, they are made in China, so In a way yeah...
[13:20:28] <CaptHindsight> heh, ok
[13:20:37] <PetefromTn_> if you are asking me about the ones I posted the other day
[13:20:43] <PetefromTn_> I have not bought them
[13:20:55] <PetefromTn_> still trying to decide what motors and drives I want to put on the new Lathe
[13:21:16] <PetefromTn_> oh wait you said NEMA 34
[13:21:17] <Computer_Barf1> do a big servomotor , and tell me exactly what you end up getting
[13:21:18] <PetefromTn_> I missed that
[13:21:27] <CaptHindsight> http://machmotion.com/cnc-products/drives-motors/teco-servo-drives-and-motors.html
[13:21:31] <PetefromTn_> have not bought motors and drives yet.
[13:21:45] <PetefromTn_> Computer_Barf1 Already did on the Cincinatti
[13:22:07] <PetefromTn_> CaptHindsight Yeah that is what I have on the Cincinatti
[13:22:10] <CaptHindsight> PetefromTn_: those nema34 on ebay you posted were really low cost
[13:22:28] <PetefromTn_> yeah I know and they were in all likelihood made in the same factory that makes the tecos I have
[13:22:42] <CaptHindsight> just no warranty
[13:23:01] <PetefromTn_> There are like four or five major manufacturers of this stuff in China as I understand it.
[13:23:07] <Computer_Barf1> is there a used market for these techo motors?
[13:23:10] <PetefromTn_> no warrantee for the ebay ones?
[13:23:44] <CaptHindsight> PetefromTn_: going to cost 1/2 the price of the motor and drive to ship them back
[13:23:45] <Computer_Barf1> yeah the 3000w one is 3 phase.. Thats deal breaker for me.
[13:23:56] <PetefromTn_> Not sure about warrantees in general for this kind of stuff.
[13:24:08] <PetefromTn_> They can basically say you screwed it up installing it no matter what happened
[13:24:37] <PetefromTn_> the good news is they are cheap enough that you just have some cash on hand and buy another one.
[13:24:52] <PetefromTn_> my problem is I almost never have any cash on hand LOL
[13:25:00] <Computer_Barf1> CaptHindsight: what size did you go with and was it single phase? I don't see myself getting a dedicated shop just so i can have 3 phase
[13:25:31] <PetefromTn_> The entire retrofit on my 1997 cincinatti Arrow 500 VMC runs on single phase input power
[13:25:41] <PetefromTn_> I run it off a 60 amp breaker
[13:25:56] <PetefromTn_> have never even felt the cables warm and never tripped the breaker yet.
[13:26:08] <Computer_Barf1> which one of the techo's is it?
[13:26:16] <skunkworks_> you're not using it hard enough!
[13:26:18] <skunkworks_> ;)
[13:26:24] <Computer_Barf1> how many watts
[13:26:26] <PetefromTn_> probably :D
[13:26:44] <PetefromTn_> The X and Y are the 1kw 2000 RPM motors I think.
[13:26:52] <PetefromTn_> The Z is different
[13:27:09] <PetefromTn_> they are direct drive with couplers
[13:27:18] <PetefromTn_> the same way the original control was.
[13:27:18] <Computer_Barf1> oh i was talking about spindle servos
[13:27:34] <PetefromTn_> my spindle is not a servomotor
[13:27:42] <PetefromTn_> well not really
[13:27:46] <Computer_Barf1> i mean, having a servo drive the spindle , to be clear
[13:28:33] <PetefromTn_> it is a 7.5HP three phase induction motor and I run it with a Hitachi WJ200-110lf sensorless vector drive from Drives warehouse.
[13:29:01] <PetefromTn_> or rather 7.5KW
[13:29:01] <Computer_Barf1> can you do indexing with such a thing?
[13:29:07] <PetefromTn_> working on it LOL
[13:29:21] <Computer_Barf1> you would need like a encoder added?
[13:29:22] <PetefromTn_> it worked that way before with the original control
[13:29:27] <PetefromTn_> already did that.
[13:29:33] <PetefromTn_> I have working rigid tapping now
[13:29:49] <ds3> how many precentage of the taps break? :D
[13:29:49] <PetefromTn_> just not gotten the spindle to orient yet for toolchanger
[13:29:58] <PetefromTn_> none so far
[13:30:08] <ds3> what's the smallest you've used so far?
[13:30:20] <PetefromTn_> but I just got it working and have not done too much rigid tapping.
[13:31:05] <Computer_Barf1> that sounds nice but unfortunantly I can't accomidate the 3 phase
[13:31:40] <PetefromTn_> did you not read what I said.
[13:31:47] <PetefromTn_> I don't have three phase either
[13:32:18] <Computer_Barf1> ahh three phase induction
[13:32:29] <Computer_Barf1> so the driver is single phase
[13:33:00] <PetefromTn_> no actually the driver is three phase but you derate it by half so I bought a 15 HP drive and run it on single phase input
[13:33:28] <PetefromTn_> works fine so far and this has been done many many times so it is nothing new.
[13:33:29] <zeeshan|2> that muusta cost you like 1400$!
[13:33:38] <PetefromTn_> what?
[13:33:41] <zeeshan|2> the vfd
[13:33:49] <PetefromTn_> I think it was around $1k
[13:33:52] <zeeshan|2> $$
[13:34:30] <Computer_Barf1> I didn't know that it was an option to buy a three phase driver and only partially power the motor
[13:34:38] <PetefromTn_> actually now it is $837.00 plus shipping.
[13:34:55] <PetefromTn_> you are not partially powering anything.
[13:35:16] <PetefromTn_> the motor gets what it needs and runs normally.
[13:35:33] <Computer_Barf1> in that case I don't understand. what do you mean by "derate"
[13:35:43] <PetefromTn_> the difference is in the starting and stopping it takes a larger drive to accept the back surge
[13:35:55] <PetefromTn_> I am not an electronics expert
[13:36:08] <PetefromTn_> but all I know is I put a 15hp three phase drive in the machine.
[13:36:16] <PetefromTn_> wired 230v single phase into it
[13:36:24] <PetefromTn_> and changed some settings and it works
[13:36:41] <Computer_Barf1> can you link the driver and motor you are using?
[13:36:56] <PetefromTn_> http://driveswarehouse.com/p-2537-wj200-110lf.aspx
[13:37:02] <Computer_Barf1> i just assumed no 3 phase in my house = screwed
[13:37:24] <PetefromTn_> The motor is the original spindle motor from Cincinatti/Emerson control Techniques that came in the machine.
[13:37:46] <PetefromTn_> no you only have a problem when you start to get above around 10HP or so from what I gather
[13:38:12] <PetefromTn_> besides even if you did you can always buy a phase perfect or a large quality rotary phase converter.
[13:38:44] <PetefromTn_> it costs some money but it is doable.
[13:39:12] <PetefromTn_> I like the derated method because I only run single phase and don't have to listen to that rotary humming all day long anymore.
[13:39:37] <Computer_Barf1> yeah i have seen the rotary option and assumed it was probably annoying
[13:39:57] <PetefromTn_> I guess you could put it outside in a custom enclosure or something
[13:40:04] <Computer_Barf1> didn't realize there was a digital option
[13:40:27] <PetefromTn_> yeah phase perfect units are probably the best option for a commercial machine but they are quite expensive
[13:40:34] <pcw_home> the rotary converter option may make sense if you have a3 phase power for existing servo drives
[13:40:54] <PetefromTn_> if you intend to retrofit the machine you can do it how you want.
[13:41:15] <PetefromTn_> some rotary converters are not that great for CNC controls.
[13:41:18] <Computer_Barf1> i wouldn't be retrofitting anything. Building.
[13:42:04] <PetefromTn_> the power output is not smooth enough and they have the high leg issue apparently to deal with.
[13:42:26] <Computer_Barf1> I had focused on servo's though. Indexing was an important part and VDF's didn't seem appropriate to what i was thinking of.
[13:42:53] <PetefromTn_> lots of folks run commercial machining and turning centers in their garages off phase perfects and rotary phase converters tho so it is nothing new
[13:43:28] <PetefromTn_> Well I gotta go pick up my kids from school here soon. BBL
[13:43:35] <Computer_Barf1> k
[13:52:19] <zeeshan|2> connor
[13:52:20] <zeeshan|2> alive? :D
[13:52:40] <Connor> yes ?
[13:53:27] <zeeshan|2> http://i.imgur.com/BqSrWtx.png
[13:53:28] <zeeshan|2> HAPPY?
[13:53:32] <zeeshan|2> with my e-stop?!?!!
[13:53:38] <Connor> on phone.. give me a few to look
[13:53:45] <Connor> training customer on using Joomla
[13:55:03] <zeeshan|2> ignore that one
[13:55:26] <jdh> ok.
[13:57:13] <renesis> i wish you would figure out how to export the diagram the shit is all cut off on the right
[13:57:20] <zeeshan|2> i will
[13:57:38] <zeeshan|2> actually lemme see if i can figure ito ut
[13:58:01] <renesis> save as png works in everything youre probably hitting cancel instead of okay
[13:58:05] <renesis> =)
[13:58:52] <Rab> Or "viewable area" vs "document".
[13:58:55] <renesis> you maybe have to hit up page format and print scaling dialogs and print preview first
[13:58:59] <renesis> right
[14:00:27] <renesis> rab: currently hes just screen shooting, im hoping export does better at the text labels
[14:00:42] <renesis> bad enouogh the shit is sideways
[14:02:19] <Rab> This is AutoCAD?
[14:02:40] <zeeshan|2> talking to me?
[14:02:43] <renesis> why are your coils in series?
[14:02:49] <Rab> zeeshan|2, affirmative.
[14:02:50] <renesis> rab: think so
[14:02:56] <zeeshan|2> renesis: normally closed
[14:02:57] <zeeshan|2> rab yes
[14:03:23] <renesis> are they 5V coils?
[14:03:26] <zeeshan|2> 24v
[14:03:44] <renesis> the coils?
[14:03:52] <renesis> i dont your shit is going to work then
[14:04:00] <renesis> a) connected to 5v supply
[14:04:07] <zeeshan|2> whoops
[14:04:07] <zeeshan|2> hahah
[14:04:10] <zeeshan|2> thats an accident
[14:04:21] <renesis> b) in series so theyre either going to 2.5v or 12v each
[14:04:26] <renesis> depending how you want to fuck this up
[14:04:44] <renesis> put them in parallel after the estop
[14:04:57] <renesis> the parallel coils should be in series with the estop
[14:05:12] <zeeshan|2> i dont know wha ti was smoking
[14:05:17] <zeeshan|2> when i put them on5v
[14:05:17] <zeeshan|2> haha
[14:05:48] <renesis> hopefully weed if smoking cigs does that to you i think you are going to have problems in social situations
[14:06:18] <zeeshan|2> and i dont know why the hell i put them in series
[14:06:18] <zeeshan|2> haha
[14:06:30] <renesis> prettier diagram
[14:07:47] <zeeshan|2> i fixed the diagram
[14:07:48] <zeeshan|2> but wtf
[14:07:53] <zeeshan|2> the output is being a pain
[14:08:13] <renesis> its just scaling wrong?
[14:08:19] <zeeshan|2> yea
[14:08:24] <zeeshan|2> and making some text bolder than others
[14:08:27] <zeeshan|2> and im looking at the layers
[14:08:27] <renesis> have you gone to page setup?
[14:08:30] <renesis> oh
[14:08:35] <renesis> thats prob dpi setting
[14:08:51] <renesis> if you cant set dpi you maybe just need to up resolution or page size
[14:09:28] <renesis> just need to figure out how to put the whole thing in a box and get mad pixels, usually you either set page size or dpi big if you cant set resolution directly
[14:09:33] <Rab> http://autodesk.blogs.com/between_the_lines/2011/02/how-to-create-a-pdf-from-autocad-with-a-single-click.html
[14:10:18] <renesis> i wonder if save to PDF is raster or vector
[14:10:32] <Rab> Surely vector?!
[14:11:02] <renesis> its CAD dude, i dont know what goes down in these design meetings, but im sure its really funny and less than productive most the time
[14:11:54] <Computer_Barf1> what do you guys use for CAD on linux?
[14:12:21] <renesis> i forgot because i gave up and just started using windows again =(
[14:12:49] <Rab> I have LibreCAD installed, but I don't really use it.
[14:13:09] <renesis> freecad seemed broken but i dont remember what platform i tried it on
[14:13:18] <Rab> It seems reasonable. I just haven't gotten over the UI learning curve yet.
[14:13:25] <renesis> and it might have worked fine just with a UI that didnt do what i expected
[14:13:36] <renesis> there is a 2d package that worked okay but i cant remember the name
[14:14:06] <Rab> For 2.5D gcode I use Inkscape.
[14:14:10] <renesis> qcad
[14:14:24] <renesis> inkscape is really good, i use that in windows
[14:14:47] <renesis> but qcad was what i used last on linux, prob like 6 or 7 years ago
[14:15:12] <renesis> if its improved at all its prov very usable, it was a decent autocad clone back then
[14:15:31] <zeeshan|2> MAN
[14:15:32] <zeeshan|2> CMON
[14:15:36] <zeeshan|2> this frigging thing
[14:15:43] <zeeshan|2> i scaled the view port
[14:15:48] <renesis> do you have a pdf printer?
[14:15:51] <zeeshan|2> but the damn crap is still bolding out
[14:15:54] <renesis> like foxit?
[14:15:57] <zeeshan|2> no
[14:15:59] <zeeshan|2> i have cutepdf
[14:16:04] <zeeshan|2> cause its cute
[14:16:13] <renesis> same shit, just print to a big sheet
[14:16:33] <renesis> it might be bolding because of scaling issues
[14:17:08] <renesis> landscape, fit to page, do 11x17 at least
[14:18:20] <renesis> anywaym if its readable just post the shit with the bold text
[14:20:15] <zeeshan|2> youre reight
[14:20:17] <zeeshan|2> it was a bloody scaling issue
[14:21:13] <renesis> zeeshan|2: you were saving to image or pdf?
[14:21:22] <zeeshan|2> tried both
[14:21:25] <zeeshan|2> they were both failing
[14:21:28] <renesis> if it was doing that scaling to pdf, its smoking crack
[14:21:31] <renesis> rab: ^'
[14:23:07] <zeeshan|2> why cant i select bigger than 44x34 "
[14:23:07] <zeeshan|2> lol
[14:24:15] <renesis> because no one has printers that big
[14:24:19] <zeeshan|2> haha
[14:24:27] <zeeshan|2> im just trying to figure out
[14:24:32] <zeeshan|2> how to change the background color so it's black
[14:24:32] <renesis> if your shit isnt readable at that res you should be doing multiple sheets
[14:24:40] <zeeshan|2> nahh man
[14:24:46] <zeeshan|2> goal was to make it all in one page
[14:24:51] <zeeshan|2> i hate going through schematics on different page
[14:25:06] <renesis> fine but that doesnt lend itself well to page export
[14:25:15] <zeeshan|2> yes
[14:25:16] <renesis> which is why i will usually do PNG for bigass diagrams
[14:25:39] <renesis> up the res until the smallest text is legible
[14:26:17] <renesis> but yeah, options attached to png export are pretty random
[14:26:32] <renesis> sometimes there just arent any and the default raster output isnt readable
[14:27:38] <zeeshan|2> http://www.docdroid.net/ksjf/master-wiring-diagram.pdf.html
[14:27:41] <zeeshan|2> thats the best i can make it
[14:28:00] <zeeshan|2> and its reallyu annoying to read
[14:28:06] <zeeshan|2> i need a different backgroudn
[14:28:23] <renesis> man fuck doc droid
[14:28:27] <zeeshan|2> hahaha
[14:28:28] <zeeshan|2> why
[14:28:29] <renesis> wtf is this
[14:28:49] <renesis> well it just crashed the chrome tab for one thing
[14:28:53] <zeeshan|2> ROFL
[14:29:09] <renesis> and it wasnt doing zoom and pan shit how i thought it should first try
[14:29:37] <renesis> yeah its crashing out, just upload the pdf
[14:29:39] <Rab> I just hit View PDF immediately.
[14:29:50] <renesis> you know everyone in the world has a pdf reader, right?
[14:30:08] <renesis> rab: i dunno my shit is crashing whenever it reloads
[14:31:13] <Rab> http://reboots.g-cipher.net/zeeshan/
[14:31:27] <Rab> zeeshan|2 is gonna need to start paying me hosting fees.
[14:31:29] <renesis> zeeshan|2: dead traces under BE25A20AC
[14:31:36] <renesis> theyre ugly, fix
[14:31:41] <zeeshan|2> rab lol
[14:32:02] <renesis> wtf your enables are tied to each other but nothing else?
[14:32:36] <renesis> rab: yeah next time it loaded i just clicked view quick, chrome view is panning around and zooming 10x faster
[14:33:45] <zeeshan|2> ignore that portion
[14:33:48] <renesis> zeeshan|2: you just havent hooked the vfd up to the estop circuit?
[14:33:55] <zeeshan|2> renesis: its there
[14:33:56] <renesis> or youre just cutting power now
[14:33:57] <zeeshan|2> the contactor
[14:34:07] <renesis> not visibly
[14:34:19] <zeeshan|2> im mainly showing the power distribution
[14:34:20] <zeeshan|2> and e-stop
[14:34:50] <renesis> is the dead trace supposed to be a connection?
[14:34:55] <zeeshan|2> for enable?
[14:34:58] <renesis> so youre just killing power instead of diabling?
[14:35:04] <zeeshan|2> yea
[14:35:05] <renesis> do they brake or spool down?
[14:35:06] <zeeshan|2> killing power
[14:35:21] <zeeshan|2> coast
[14:35:49] <renesis> what do they do when you disable them
[14:36:00] <zeeshan|2> coast :P
[14:36:09] <renesis> okay so not a ton diff
[14:36:16] <renesis> is there a brake option?
[14:36:22] <zeeshan|2> no
[14:36:34] <zeeshan|2> not that i saw in the amc manual
[14:36:39] <renesis> could bridge the motor with a resistor
[14:37:08] <renesis> anyway, thats better than the modbus hack
[14:37:25] <renesis> or soft stopping them
[14:37:33] <zeeshan|2> so basically its 2 circuits
[14:37:37] <zeeshan|2> 2 methods i mean
[14:37:43] <zeeshan|2> 1. e-stop -> rough (i dont ever want to use it)
[14:37:47] <zeeshan|2> 2. machine power through console
[14:37:51] <zeeshan|2> which is the one ill use more often
[14:37:56] <zeeshan|2> if i detect a crash
[14:38:00] <renesis> what happens when you soft estop?
[14:38:16] <renesis> hit the estop button in linux cnc
[14:38:20] <zeeshan|2> itll disable drives and send stop or fault command to all vfds
[14:38:33] <zeeshan|2> overmodbus
[14:38:51] <renesis> seems fine
[14:39:23] <renesis> adding brake to the spindle motor prob not a bad idea
[14:39:41] <renesis> get a bigass 1R heatsink resistor or something
[14:40:37] <jdh> get a big lightbulb
[14:40:58] <zeeshan|2> lol
[14:41:01] <zeeshan|2> thats not a bad idea
[14:41:08] <zeeshan|2> hook it up to like a 100 light bulbs
[14:41:10] <zeeshan|2> see what happerns
[14:41:13] <renesis> http://www.mouser.com/ProductDetail/Ohmite/D100K1R0E/?qs=sGAEpiMZZMvNd0dY0Kymzlh5M08j0lnOBZgnM6c2k24%3d
[14:41:26] <zeeshan|2> renesis: that aint gonna work
[14:41:27] <renesis> adjustable
[14:41:39] <renesis> zeeshan|2: why not
[14:43:07] <renesis> http://www.mouser.com/ProductDetail/Ohmite/HS100J1R0E/?qs=sGAEpiMZZMvNd0dY0KymzgD%2fS%2fJEz4CLEoKQb1d2Obg%3d
[14:43:08] <zeeshan|2> it specifies 2.5 ohm
[14:43:10] <zeeshan|2> 750W
[14:43:13] <renesis> maybe you like them in this style better?
[14:43:15] <zeeshan|2> er
[14:43:18] <renesis> okay so use that
[14:43:21] <zeeshan|2> 10 ohm 750W
[14:43:27] <renesis> okay, than use that
[14:43:36] <zeeshan|2> i like the lightbulb idea
[14:43:37] <renesis> then, whatever urmom
[14:43:59] <renesis> i like the idea of high dissipation loads means to do shit like this
[14:44:08] <renesis> who has lightbulbs anymore, anyway
[14:44:29] <renesis> http://www.mouser.com/ProductDetail/TE-Connectivity/TE750B10RJ/?qs=%2fha2pyFaduiuoHBX7fD8Mv0g5pyylaQ8bSFNlsIl4gI%3d
[14:45:46] <Rab> Or just dumpster-dive an elevator service company.
[14:46:39] <renesis> walk into an audio engineering lab with a gun and they might give their loads up
[14:49:43] <PetefromTn_> Trying to figure out what size frame motor I need to look for on this CNC lathe build here
[14:50:22] <PetefromTn_> the large mounting plate has a nice circular machined hole that is 180.67 MM across
[14:51:26] <zeeshan|2> C frame
[14:51:34] <zeeshan|2> you mean servos?
[14:52:00] <PetefromTn_> the bolt pattern is 152 MM across
[14:52:10] <PetefromTn_> er rather in a square
[14:52:40] <PetefromTn_> Spindle motor
[14:56:02] <PetefromTn_> http://www.motorsanddrives.com/cowern/motorterms2_chart.html
[14:59:23] <PetefromTn_> I am sure it is a face mount motor
[14:59:48] <PetefromTn_> the motor mounting plate has a large circular opening with four holes on a slotted plate for belt adjustment
[15:00:25] <PetefromTn_> the hole is 180mm basically and the four bolts are like I said 152mm apart along each side of the square pattern
[15:00:30] <zeeshan|2> if its got a circle
[15:00:32] <zeeshan|2> and face mount
[15:00:39] <zeeshan|2> they call it "c-frame"
[15:00:44] <PetefromTn_> yeah I know that
[15:04:00] <Connor> zeeshan|2: OKay. A few things about your e-stop circuit.
[15:04:10] <Connor> First.. what are the contactor coil voltages ?
[15:04:12] <zeeshan|2> connor
[15:04:15] <zeeshan|2> which diagram
[15:04:18] <zeeshan|2> its been updated a few times :P
[15:04:21] <Connor> http://www.docdroid.net/ksjf/master-wiring-diagram.pdf.html
[15:04:24] <zeeshan|2> ok
[15:04:43] <zeeshan|2> 24vdc
[15:04:54] <Connor> okay.
[15:05:13] <Connor> What you Don't have in the mix.. is ability for LinuxCNC to trip estop on watchdog.
[15:05:30] <zeeshan|2> i dont want it to
[15:05:50] <zeeshan|2> i want to send fault over modbus and disable
[15:05:54] <zeeshan|2> in that scenario
[15:05:56] <PetefromTn_> Whats funny is the C frame motors or rather all motors seem to have the AJ dimension at 5.875" my bolt spacing is 6"
[15:06:01] <Connor> WHY ?
[15:06:09] <Connor> and what does that do for your servo's ?
[15:06:15] <zeeshan|2> it disables them.
[15:06:38] <zeeshan|2> PetefromTn_: time to build an adapter :P
[15:06:44] <zeeshan|2> luckily you have a cnc mill!
[15:07:06] <PetefromTn_> no thanks there was a motor in there that fit gotta find it.
[15:07:32] <zeeshan|2> have fun!
[15:08:05] <zeeshan|2> connor linuxcnc has access to the disable pin
[15:08:12] <zeeshan|2> for each servo drive
[15:09:28] <zeeshan|2> connor yesterday you said
[15:09:38] <zeeshan|2> ref+ -> aoutx ?
[15:09:45] <zeeshan|2> and ref- goes to signal ground on servo drive?
[15:09:48] <Connor> I'm going to say this one last time. Inhibt, Disable etc.. Isn't Fail safe.
[15:09:54] <Connor> zeeshan|2: I think so.
[15:10:00] <zeeshan|2> watchdog failure
[15:10:05] <zeeshan|2> isn't a big deal
[15:10:20] <zeeshan|2> it means you have some transmission isue
[15:10:21] <Connor> You want to go into FULL estop on a PC Feeze up.
[15:10:37] <Connor> Not talking the VFD, I'm talking the 7i77 watchdog.
[15:10:51] <Connor> and technically, yes.. the VFD.
[15:11:57] <Connor> You want a your estop to include the charge-pump/watchdog in it's loop.. and if it all possible add a latching setup so that you have to push a external button to start back up from a estop event.
[15:11:58] <zeeshan|2> so basically youre saying i need to put coil 1 and coil 2 and a pin on the 7i77
[15:12:00] <zeeshan|2> in parallel
[15:12:08] <pcw_home> drives will be disabled in that case, so E-Stop is not necessarily needed
[15:12:23] <zeeshan|2> pcw_home: okay sweet
[15:12:55] <pcw_home> E-Stop is the if all else fails/always works stop
[15:13:13] <zeeshan|2> did you see my diagram?
[15:13:19] <zeeshan|2> im cutting power to vfds and servo drives
[15:13:22] <zeeshan|2> with just a e-stop switch
[15:13:24] <zeeshan|2> nothing else
[15:13:28] <Connor> at least add a latching setup and be sure to tie the estop into a input pin on the 7i77 so linuxcnc knows it's in estop
[15:13:32] <zeeshan|2> is that adequate enough
[15:13:46] <zeeshan|2> connor good point
[15:14:27] <Connor> What I mean by latching... is.. I have a relay setup so, that the coil loops through a NO contact.
[15:14:42] <Connor> You press a button to temp short the NO contact.. and the relay latches..
[15:15:11] <Connor> the other coil is part of the estop chain.
[15:15:37] <pcw_home> thats jymmms cue to do his safety relay spiel
[15:15:40] <Connor> if estop event happens... the relay goes into NO condition.. and taking the Estop out of estop doesn't resume.. you press the button to resume.
[15:15:42] <PetefromTn_> http://i150.photobucket.com/albums/s83/matospeter/IMAG0202_zpswkmpi2qz.jpg
[15:16:13] <zeeshan|2> that plate looks seasy to modify
[15:16:15] <PetefromTn_> that is my lathe's motor mount plate
[15:16:19] <zeeshan|2> to be a standard 56 frame c face motor on
[15:16:24] <zeeshan|2> *put
[15:17:01] <PetefromTn_> I should not have to modify it. It had a motor there at one point just need to figure out what size frame it was.
[15:17:09] <zeeshan|2> you're right
[15:17:14] <zeeshan|2> but look at bridgeports for example
[15:17:22] <zeeshan|2> they use a retarded propietry purpose made motor
[15:17:35] <PetefromTn_> I am aware
[15:17:38] <zeeshan|2> impossible to find for cheap in 240vac 3ph
[15:17:50] <PetefromTn_> but this is a simple face mount motor should be a typical motor most likely
[15:18:00] <zeeshan|2> you had that nema chart
[15:18:03] <Tom_itx> i wonder if a bldc motor would work for a spindle motor
[15:18:11] <zeeshan|2> if the dimensions dont match
[15:18:11] <PetefromTn_> http://www.baldor.com/pdf/nema_chart_04.pdf
[15:18:12] <zeeshan|2> its not standard
[15:18:55] <PetefromTn_> there are apparenlty five different C face frame sizes according to that chart
[15:19:05] <PetefromTn_> sorry four
[15:19:29] <PetefromTn_> not sure what BA referrs to
[15:20:27] <zeeshan|2> face to first mounting hole
[15:20:51] <zeeshan|2> shouldnt matter for you
[15:21:11] <PetefromTn_> looks like the AJ dimension is the bolt circle they do not refer to it in a square pattern
[15:21:23] <zeeshan|2> its not a square pattern
[15:21:26] <zeeshan|2> its a bolt circle
[15:21:43] <Jymmm> pcw_home: It would be, even if I pointed out the defect people still won't listen, so I don't bother much anymore.
[15:21:52] <zeeshan|2> Jymmm: explain
[15:22:23] <Jymmm> zeeshan|2: No, nobody gives a shit are will still not use a safety relay anyway, so way bother?
[15:22:30] <Jymmm> why*
[15:22:58] <zeeshan|2> i dont understand that sentence :P
[15:23:08] <Connor> Jymmm: I've asked, time, and time again, to explain exactly what a safety relay IS, and what it DOES, and how it's different than a standard relay
[15:23:29] <Jymmm> zeeshan|2: Even if I explained the entire details, nobody cares.
[15:23:58] <Jymmm> Connor: Go do your homeworkif you want to know, it's not easy to explain.
[15:24:57] <Connor> Jymmm: AND That's why I stopped listening to that advice.. If your going to say to use something.. at least give a little info on the subject that something like RTFM
[15:25:08] <zeeshan|2> connor
[15:25:14] <zeeshan|2> why cant i just run a wire directly from my e-stop button
[15:25:18] <zeeshan|2> to one if the input pins on the 7i77
[15:25:20] <PetefromTn_> it looks like the bolt circle is just under 8.5"
[15:25:24] <zeeshan|2> to register an external e-stop call
[15:25:27] <Connor> zeeshan|2: You can.
[15:25:36] <zeeshan|2> so just one wire?
[15:25:38] <Connor> in fact.. that's what I was suggesting.
[15:25:46] <zeeshan|2> you were talking about a relay setup
[15:25:48] <zeeshan|2> i got confused :P
[15:25:57] <Connor> Ahh.. yes.. the latching relay.
[15:26:08] <Connor> is kinda important.. IMHO.
[15:26:28] <Jymmm> Connor: Dude, do your own fucking homework, It's not anyone elses job to wipe your ass. Asking about (lets say) physics and expect someone to explain it to you so you understand it all on irc it pure bullshit.
[15:26:55] <zeeshan|2> holy mean
[15:27:42] <PetefromTn_> That is uncalled for... He is not the only one here who would like to get the information and understand it...
[15:27:44] <Connor> Jymmm: and AGAIN, If your going to tell someone something to use without and reason, specifics, or explanation, don't bother saying anything.
[15:27:51] <Jymmm> No, it's brutally honesty especially after all this time the tone of the responses form Connor liek one is obligated to explain it.
[15:28:38] <Jymmm> Connor: NOBODY has an obligation to do anything, IF you don't like it, ignore it.
[15:28:53] <PetefromTn_> why not just not worry about what connor says and help everyone else to understand your point.
[15:29:29] <Connor> it's equivalent to someone saying.. Use this, and oh, btw RTFM and don't ask me any questions about it... is not very helpful and very rude.
[15:29:43] <zeeshan|2> PCW: vin vfield * 4
[15:29:45] <zeeshan|2> can all be bridged together
[15:29:47] <zeeshan|2> ?
[15:30:08] <Jymmm> PetefromTn_: Bucause over the years people won't listen to it anyway.
[15:30:09] <Connor> With that.. I'm done talking about $h!t today.
[15:30:23] <zeeshan|2> connor RTFM
[15:30:26] <zeeshan|2> PetefromTn_: RTFM!
[15:30:29] <zeeshan|2> zeeshan|2: RTFM
[15:30:35] <zeeshan|2> im such a noob :/
[15:30:49] <PetefromTn_> whatever I guess
[15:31:03] <PetefromTn_> I am ALWAYS willing to listen to methods of making my damn machines safer...
[15:31:22] <Jymmm> PetefromTn_: Don't just listen, go do your own research.
[15:31:39] <Jymmm> PetefromTn_: educate yourself.
[15:31:44] <PetefromTn_> whatever man
[15:32:07] <Jymmm> It's the whole fish thing, not being spoonfed.
[15:32:26] <zeeshan|2> safety is overrated
[15:32:26] <PetefromTn_> WTF do you think this forum is for then? We are all here to learn
[15:32:37] <zeeshan|2> trip the main breaker
[15:32:40] <zeeshan|2> machine is safe!
[15:32:43] <Jymmm> Again, NOT being spoon fed.
[15:33:04] <PetefromTn_> really? I see folks getting spoon fed here daily it seems...
[15:33:09] <Jymmm> zeeshan|2: that is actually don btw
[15:33:13] <Jymmm> done
[15:33:27] <Jymmm> zeeshan|2: shunt the main breaker
[15:33:34] <zeeshan|2> Jymmm: seriously that's how i'd do it
[15:33:38] <zeeshan|2> its nice and simple
[15:33:58] <Jymmm> zeeshan|2: except when brakes need to be enegized.
[15:34:01] <PetefromTn_> when it comes to a real safety issue that apparently you found important enough that PCW commented on how you harp on it all the time I would think it was worth some spoon feeding.
[15:34:14] <zeeshan|2> my brake is nc
[15:34:21] <Jymmm> zeeshan|2: ah
[15:34:42] <zeeshan|2> im just killing power to the servo drives and vfd
[15:34:51] <zeeshan|2> which makes sense
[15:34:58] <zeeshan|2> im giving linuxcnc an e-stop signal
[15:34:59] <zeeshan|2> and thats it
[15:35:06] <zeeshan|2> i dont want anymore of these extra relay bs
[15:35:10] <Connor> zeeshan|2: should kill power to the break too.. since it's NC
[15:35:21] <zeeshan|2> connor no
[15:35:32] * Tom_itx hides the soap box
[15:35:43] <PetefromTn_> whose soap box?
[15:36:02] <Connor> NC as in you apply power to it to disengage it right ?
[15:36:10] <zeeshan|2> yea
[15:36:32] <Connor> What happens if you hit estop and you loose power, and the break isn't on ?
[15:36:45] <zeeshan|2> nothing
[15:36:52] <zeeshan|2> z-axis wont fall
[15:37:06] <Connor> if the break ISN'T ON ?
[15:37:11] <Connor> it will fall.
[15:37:17] <zeeshan|2> the brake is always on
[15:37:19] <zeeshan|2> without power
[15:37:23] <zeeshan|2> i dont know how thats possible
[15:37:24] <zeeshan|2> thats how it is
[15:37:42] <Connor> okay.. let me rephrase..
[15:37:57] <Connor> you hit estop.. for what ever reason.. the break has power, and it's not engaged..
[15:38:01] <Connor> what happens ?
[15:38:27] <zeeshan|2> it won't have power.
[15:38:32] <Connor> Why ?
[15:38:54] <pcw_home> The brake should be applied when the drives are disabled
[15:39:19] <PetefromTn_> my drives take care of the braking automatically
[15:39:34] <pcw_home> so only at linuxcnc machine-on should the brake be released
[15:40:23] <Connor> right.. so what happens.. if for some reason.. you have a loose wire.. say.. the wire that tells linuxcnc it's in E-stop..
[15:41:01] <zeeshan|2> my brake
[15:41:02] <Connor> and you hit the estop.. linuxcnc still thinks it has control... and you loose power to the servo.. BOOM
[15:41:03] <zeeshan|2> will be on the same line
[15:41:06] <zeeshan|2> as my e-stop button.
[15:41:20] <zeeshan|2> actually i dont know wher eit will be yet
[15:41:31] <zeeshan|2> ill just do it th rough 7i77.
[15:41:35] <zeeshan|2> *through
[15:41:46] <zeeshan|2> it'll be an output on the 7i77..
[15:41:53] <Connor> OKay. it needs to be tied to the enables like PCW said. but.. I think the power for it needs to be in the estop loop too..
[15:42:13] <Connor> but, whatever.
[15:42:24] <Connor> going to get food and take a break from all of this.
[15:42:36] <pcw_home> you will need a relay for the brake (and a contact arc suppressor)
[15:43:00] <zeeshan|2> pcw_home: wouldnt it be better to use a SSR?
[15:43:05] <PetefromTn_> yeah that is how mine is it came with it's own relay and the drive provides the timing
[15:43:26] <pcw_home> SSRs typically dont work with DC
[15:43:29] <zeeshan|2> i honestly dont see anything in the amc drives
[15:43:37] <zeeshan|2> that talks about brake..
[15:43:50] <PetefromTn_> then you need to get a timing relay
[15:43:56] <PetefromTn_> they make them for this purpose
[15:44:08] <zeeshan|2> how does that work
[15:44:15] <pcw_home> linuxcnc can do the timing
[15:44:18] <PetefromTn_> the old drive on the Cincinatti did not have it internal and the machine had a timing relay for it
[15:44:29] <PetefromTn_> I dunno about that probably
[15:44:52] <zeeshan|2> can i maybe use the 5v "fault" out
[15:44:59] <zeeshan|2> from the servo drive?
[15:45:07] <zeeshan|2> its 0 when enabled
[15:45:11] <zeeshan|2> and 5v when disabled
[15:45:55] <zeeshan|2> pcw_home: i think im just going to use an output on the 7i77
[15:45:58] <zeeshan|2> and do it through linuxcnc.
[15:46:04] <zeeshan|2> its the easiest
[15:46:11] <zeeshan|2> and makes the most sense to me
[15:47:26] <PetefromTn_> you can certainly do that but they make like 0-10 or 20 second 24v relays that work for just that purpose
[15:47:48] <zeeshan|2> PetefromTn_: im confused why you need a timing relay?
[15:49:15] <PetefromTn_> there needs to be time between when the brake engages and the drive depowers
[15:50:13] <PetefromTn_> when I turn off my motors you can hear a little click and then the drive shuts down
[15:50:26] <zeeshan|2> so you want to engage the brake
[15:50:29] <zeeshan|2> before you power down the drive
[15:50:33] <zeeshan|2> like 10-20 seconds before
[15:50:41] <PetefromTn_> that is the relay locking the brake so the head does not fall when the motor power is removed
[15:50:50] <PetefromTn_> no more like 1-2 seconds
[15:50:57] <zeeshan|2> ahh
[15:52:08] <zeeshan|2> PCW: does aout5 go to ref+
[15:52:15] <zeeshan|2> and ref- goes to servo drive signal ground?
[15:53:05] <zeeshan|2> and then signal ground on servo drive goes to "gnd" (for driver 5) on 7i77?
[16:14:01] <zeeshan|2> http://www.ebay.com/itm/321414537912
[16:14:05] <zeeshan|2> finally found those down angle 15A plugs
[16:14:06] <zeeshan|2> :D
[16:40:12] <Deejay> gn8
[16:46:21] <Connor> zeeshan|2: Is that what your servo drives use ?
[17:02:17] <zeeshan|2> connor yes
[17:03:26] <Connor> I question the need for breakers on each drive then.. those are not typically used for direct wire application..
[17:03:33] <Connor> Do those drivers have fuses ?
[17:03:36] <zeeshan|2> yes they do
[17:03:53] <zeeshan|2> actually you make a valid point
[17:04:05] <zeeshan|2> i think the reason i put a breaker was
[17:04:06] <zeeshan|2> to protect the wire
[17:04:11] <zeeshan|2> not protect the device
[17:04:24] <Connor> then.. loose them. You don't need them.. more complicated than needed.
[17:04:34] <zeeshan|2> what protects the wire? :)
[17:04:57] <Connor> having the wire sized correctly.. and the fuse in the drive.
[17:05:25] <zeeshan|2> well if you short the feed wire against the case
[17:05:30] <zeeshan|2> the fuse wont trip
[17:05:33] <zeeshan|2> cause its down stream
[17:07:20] <Connor> There it is again.. why would the wire short against the case ?
[17:08:03] <zeeshan|2> for the reason you thought "you have a loose wire.. say.. the wire that tells linuxcnc it's in E-stop..and you hit the estop.. linuxcnc still thinks it has control... and you loose power to the servo.. BOOM"
[17:08:43] <Connor> That's a control wire.. much smaller and easier to damage, or come loose than say a 12 or 14 gauge power wire. :)
[17:08:56] <zeeshan|2> hehe
[17:10:31] <zeeshan|2> gotta clean the house :p
[17:10:34] <zeeshan|2> ill work on this later tonight
[17:13:21] <Jymmm> Anyone have any thoughts on the mech's of making a simple spooler? Very much like a tool hanger, or janiters keychian, but nut not a lot of tension, mostly to take up slack.
[18:00:18] <zeeshan|2> Jymmm: like a wire spooler?
[18:00:37] <Jymmm> zeeshan|2: kinda yeah.
[18:00:52] <zeeshan|2> im assuming you'll have sort of drum?
[18:01:00] <zeeshan|2> can you put a shaft through it
[18:01:19] <Jymmm> zeeshan|2: I was going to make one out of plastic and piece of 1/2" pvc pipe
[18:01:30] <zeeshan|2> human powered?
[18:01:48] <Jymmm> zeeshan|2: to extend yes, but to retract, no.
[18:02:03] <zeeshan|2> honestly rather than reinventing the wheel
[18:02:07] <zeeshan|2> i'd looking at a fishing reel
[18:02:29] <Jymmm> zeeshan|2: Heh, can't this is a 1/2" wide ribbon
[18:02:37] <zeeshan|2> oh man this is tiny!
[18:03:15] <Jymmm> I'm just not sure on what to use to tension/spring back.
[18:03:34] <Jymmm> I don't want a REAL coiled spring, too much tension I think
[18:03:59] <Jymmm> zeeshan|2: It's for coiling LED strip
[18:04:30] <zeeshan|2> when i first thought about it
[18:04:39] <zeeshan|2> i was envisioning something similar to an arm attached to a wheel
[18:04:43] <zeeshan|2> like in older locomotives
[18:04:51] <zeeshan|2> but that seems unnecessary complicated :P
[18:04:54] <Jymmm> ah, like a crank of sorts
[18:05:00] <zeeshan|2> yes
[18:05:20] <Jymmm> Yeah, no something that will retract itself.
[18:05:39] <Jymmm> I thought liek a rubberband might work, but they dry out and break too easily.
[18:05:51] <zeeshan|2> i kinda like camshafts
[18:06:11] <zeeshan|2> you can make the cam profile in a while so you can spool it one way
[18:06:13] <ds3> they make rubberbands out of other material besides natural rubber
[18:06:21] <zeeshan|2> *way
[18:07:13] <Jymmm> ds3: The issues is that the tighter you extended it out, the tension builds up instead of staying consistant.
[18:07:42] <Jymmm> I dont want to be slapped in the fce if soemthign breaks
[18:07:50] <Jymmm> like a tow chain
[18:08:12] <ds3> oh
[18:08:31] <ds3> what about a torsen spring like the tape measures? they don't seem that strong
[18:09:17] <Jymmm> ds3: That might work, I just have a 1/2" one to spare
[18:09:27] <Jymmm> ^don't
[18:09:30] <ds3> or prehaps just a weight on a pulley?
[18:09:47] <ds3> like how they do it on the light rail power line supports
[18:10:06] <Jymmm> ds3: this is portable to prevent loose lines from catching on everything
[18:11:55] <ds3> ah
[18:23:29] <Jymmm> Eeeeesh 6TB HDD http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/1068031-REG/wd_wdbmma0060hnc_nrsn_6tb_desktop_networking_hard.html
[18:23:40] <Jymmm> and a RED drive too =)
[18:24:18] <Jymmm> I stil have a WORKING 40MB hdd around here =)
[18:35:12] <ssi> hrm
[18:37:15] <SpeedEvil> I have a working 1.3" 20M hdd
[18:51:58] <Connor> pcw pcw_home: To drive relays from the SPINDLE ENA and SPINDLE DIR, how do you wire it? Simply ENA+ and DIR+ to the relay and ground the other side?
[18:53:33] <PCW> those are optocoupler transistor outputs so just floating switches
[18:54:03] <PCW> (note 50 mA max current)
[18:54:47] <Connor> 0.075Amps per relay.
[18:55:11] <PCW> so they cannot drive your relays directly
[18:55:43] <Connor> Oh Geez.
[18:55:53] <PCW> you can use a field output instead
[18:56:47] <PCW> they are really intended for things like VFDs that have low current inputs
[18:57:09] <Connor> Yea, not too useful on DC SCR based spindles..
[18:58:21] <PCW> what does your spindle controller want?
[18:58:33] <Connor> 0-10v
[18:58:42] <PCW> and...
[18:59:15] <Connor> and then it has 2 inputs.. open = break, 1 way = fwd, other input - rev
[18:59:29] <Connor> they diagram shows using switches.
[18:59:48] <Connor> I have NO idea if a opto could be used in place.
[18:59:59] <PCW> hard to tell
[19:00:16] <Connor> http://www.kbelectronics.com/manuals/kbcc_manual.pdf
[19:00:28] <Connor> First Page has the ways of wiring up the switches.
[19:01:17] <Connor> page 24 has schmatic
[19:01:29] <Connor> for S1, S2, S3, and S4.
[19:01:35] <PCW> well smaller relays or 24V relays :-)
[19:01:55] <PCW> or field outputs
[19:02:12] <Connor> I guess I'll use field outputs.. any gotchas on that with the Hall config ?
[19:02:24] <Connor> with my 12v relays
[19:03:04] <PCW> should be easy (do you need to wait before reversing the motor?)
[19:03:39] <Connor> No..
[19:03:48] <Connor> At least I'm not at the moment..
[19:05:17] <Connor> I really wish I could just find a cheap servo amp for DC that takes +-10v and can handle 120v at 15amp continues 30amp or so peak.
[19:05:40] <Connor> Then I would just run the spindle as a servo
[19:27:48] <jdh> that's a lotta amps for that little mill.
[19:29:19] <renesis> not quite 3hp continuous
[19:29:22] <renesis> heh
[19:29:43] <renesis> my shit is 1/4hp but its light, handles corners great
[19:29:46] <renesis> sports mill
[19:54:27] <zeeshan|2> i must be doing something wrong
[19:54:32] <zeeshan|2> i only have a couple inputs being used
[19:54:37] <zeeshan|2> limit switches
[19:54:43] <zeeshan|2> and e-stop signal
[19:54:43] <zeeshan|2> hmm
[20:08:01] <zeeshan|2> anyone know how much current is avaiable for each encoder interface?
[20:08:23] <zeeshan|2> on the 7i77
[20:09:06] <LeelooMinai> zeeshan|2: I would look into docs and if not there look at the actual ICs on the board and then go to their datasheets - you will find all the specs.
[20:09:18] <zeeshan|2> i didnt see it in the doc :/
[20:09:48] <LeelooMinai> I think there are no schematics or parts list for those boards though (?) I wish they were available:)
[20:10:14] <zeeshan|2> then you can steal their design!
[20:10:15] <LeelooMinai> But for 7i76 it was easy to find the datasheets for the driver ICs for example.
[20:10:17] <zeeshan|2> so prolly not hehe
[20:10:36] <LeelooMinai> zeeshan|2: You think that lack of schematic will stop some CHinese guys stealing it? :)
[20:10:43] <zeeshan|2> lol
[20:11:00] <zeeshan|2> they better not!
[20:11:00] <LeelooMinai> They can RE everything - they probably teach them RE at school:p
[20:11:02] <zeeshan|2> we need to support mesa
[20:11:48] <zeeshan|2> LeelooMinai: how do i know what chip is what
[20:11:48] <zeeshan|2> haha
[20:11:51] <zeeshan|2> im an electronics noob :{
[20:12:40] <LeelooMinai> zeeshan|2: Well, you will get the name after looking it up - it should be pretty obvious then what is it for. Also, it will be placed close to the terminals it's connected to.
[20:13:53] <LeelooMinai> On 7i76 there are two ICs that handle field IO some PIC microcontroller in the middle, etc.
[20:14:47] <zeeshan|2> ds26ls32
[20:14:48] <zeeshan|2> :D
[20:15:05] <LeelooMinai> http://www.ti.com.cn/cn/lit/ds/symlink/ds26ls32ac.pdf
[20:15:15] <ds3> ?
[20:15:27] <zeeshan|2> ds3: thats what the chip is called
[20:15:29] <zeeshan|2> :P
[20:15:31] <LeelooMinai> THis is for differential input
[20:15:39] <ds3> chip?
[20:15:49] <LeelooMinai> So RS 4xx stuff
[20:15:50] <zeeshan|2> "output sink current"
[20:16:01] <PCW> There are 1A PTCs on each connector (so if you use all 3 its ~300 Ma /encoder)
[20:16:02] <zeeshan|2> 50mA
[20:16:29] <zeeshan|2> the reason i was asking was because
[20:16:46] <zeeshan|2> i believe the interpolator is energized
[20:16:50] <zeeshan|2> using these signals..
[20:16:52] <LeelooMinai> Probably the green SMD packages I saw there
[20:17:44] <LeelooMinai> PCW: Is any of the hardware design "secret"?
[20:18:00] <PCW> If the intepolators are more than ~300 ma then you should wire 5V to them separately
[20:18:17] <zeeshan|2> it says <= 100mA
[20:18:31] <PCW> not really there's nothing actually hidden
[20:18:32] <LeelooMinai> I know the code is open and avaiable
[20:19:17] <LeelooMinai> PCW: Have you actually had anyone cloning your boards (Chinese that is:)
[20:19:29] <zeeshan|2> okay the interpolator has a 10 pin input
[20:19:32] <zeeshan|2> =D
[20:19:48] <PCW> no chinese clones I am aware of
[20:19:56] <LeelooMinai> Lucky lucky
[20:20:25] <PCW> I suspect the Lnuxcnc market is too small to be of much interest so far
[20:20:36] <renesis> 05:53:28 < LeelooMinai> They can RE everything - they probably teach them RE at school:p
[20:20:49] <PCW> this does seem to be changing...
[20:20:51] <renesis> if they dont teach that in american engineering programs im dissapointed
[20:20:53] <renesis> but not surprised
[20:21:03] <LeelooMinai> I thought the boards also work with Mach, no?
[20:21:19] <renesis> did a lot of RE on competitive products and old shit from merged companies with lost docs
[20:21:29] <PCW> they could but we have not put any effort into it
[20:21:41] <renesis> or china engineering samples because shit never matches schematics
[20:22:12] <LeelooMinai> Hmm, so outside of linuxcnc/mach there's some big world there, right? Some expensive hardware for big machines?
[20:22:25] <LeelooMinai> Propriatery mostly?
[20:22:38] <renesis> custom controllers and servo drives like big watermelons
[20:22:39] <LeelooMinai> etary*
[20:22:50] <PCW> we do a fairr amount of custom stuff
[20:23:04] <LeelooMinai> Are there any standards there?
[20:23:20] <PCW> mainly funny I/O interfaces
[20:23:50] <zeeshan|2> pcw whats the craziest machine a 7i77 is on? :D
[20:23:59] <renesis> pcw: MIDI to machine tool?
[20:24:41] <renesis> current loop and not horrendously slow it, could work
[20:24:51] <PCW> Not sure but there are some odd ones...
[20:25:11] <renesis> mostly it was a joke but i thought about it and it would work =\
[20:26:09] <PCW> afk dinner!
[20:26:18] <renesis> nom
[20:26:40] <zeeshan|2> http://www.heidenhain.com/fileadmin/pdb/media/img/582_761-20.pdf
[20:26:41] <zeeshan|2> page 4
[20:26:44] <zeeshan|2> this manual is retarded
[20:26:46] <zeeshan|2> or im retarded
[20:26:54] <zeeshan|2> says current consumption <100mA
[20:26:56] <renesis> heh at using MIDI controllers direct into motor drives and machine controllers
[20:27:06] <zeeshan|2> then it says <= 30m at i_encoder <= 120 mA
[20:27:07] <zeeshan|2> wut?
[20:27:08] <renesis> for what
[20:27:24] <zeeshan|2> unless its saying the interpolator board consumes 120mA
[20:27:31] <zeeshan|2> and if i run a 30m cable to the encoder
[20:27:32] <renesis> they might be talking about idle state
[20:27:36] <zeeshan|2> it'll consume another 120m|A
[20:27:50] <renesis> or unloaded
[20:27:54] <zeeshan|2> yea it says
[20:28:05] <zeeshan|2> "without current consumption by the encoder and with output load"
[20:28:12] <zeeshan|2> okay so its 100mA + 120mA
[20:28:13] <zeeshan|2> total
[21:19:44] <tjtr33> new to me: BBB cape from TI for experimenting with PRU http://www.ti.com/tool/prucape?DCMP=ep-pro-sit-pru-140730&HQS=ep-pro-sit-pru-pr-pf-en
[21:20:35] <tjtr33> i think its by Jason, the TI engr who was at the Tormach Linuxcnc gettogether during the summer
[21:26:29] <CaptHindsight> somebody linked to it this morning
[21:27:24] <CaptHindsight> not much on it but supposedly the LED's will make it easier to develop for the PRU's
[21:27:26] <tjtr33> ah, good
[21:28:10] <CaptHindsight> http://linuxgizmos.com/beaglebone-cape-eases-access-to-the-sitara-socs-pru/
[21:29:00] <CaptHindsight> http://files.linuxgizmos.com/ti_prucape_block.jpg $39?
[21:29:40] <tjtr33> yeah the board is bare but maybe the support libs are handy http://www.ti.com/tool/prucape?DCMP=ep-pro-sit-pru-140730&HQS=ep-pro-sit-pru-pr-pf-en#Technical%20Documents
[21:29:59] <tjtr33> "Linux EZ Software Development Kit (EZSDK) for Sitara™ Processors"
[21:32:53] <CaptHindsight> http://www.ti.com/product/omap3515 with PRU's would be great, I wonder why they didn't make one.
[21:34:16] <tjtr33> the free version of CodeComposerSTudio for it http://processors.wiki.ti.com/index.php/Download_CCS
[21:35:03] <CaptHindsight> sorry wrong link
[21:36:10] <tjtr33> oh, like great video and pru. yeah, put it on the xmas list :)
[21:36:20] <CaptHindsight> http://www.ti.com/product/OMAP4460?keyMatch=4460&tisearch=Search-EN + PRU
[21:38:30] <ssi> back
[21:38:37] <zeeshan|2> ..
[21:38:38] <zeeshan|2> FU
[21:38:51] <zeeshan|2> were you watching
[21:38:51] <ssi> wat
[21:38:55] <zeeshan|2> interstellar by any chance?
[21:39:02] <ssi> heh no
[21:39:07] <zeeshan|2> it came out today
[21:39:09] <zeeshan|2> it looks epic
[21:39:11] <ssi> yea
[21:39:15] <ssi> i was just watching netflixx
[21:39:18] <zeeshan|2> oh
[21:39:29] <ssi> snowpiercer
[21:39:41] <zeeshan|2> thats a good movie
[21:39:42] <zeeshan|2> :D
[21:40:11] <zeeshan|2> ssi
[21:40:16] <zeeshan|2> so i found a power distribution solution..
[21:40:25] <zeeshan|2> that doesnt involve ripping the guts out of a breaker box
[21:40:41] <ssi> yea?
[21:40:52] <zeeshan|2> http://cooper-bussmann.com/uploads/spec-pics/201304/cooper-bussmann-Compact-Modular-Fuse-Holders-comb-bus-bar.jpg
[21:41:11] <zeeshan|2> you can get it in single phase too
[21:41:27] <zeeshan|2> its basically an insulated bus with lugs attachment
[21:41:29] <zeeshan|2> :D
[21:42:29] <ssi> oh nice
[21:44:34] <CaptHindsight> well were not going to see another TI OMAP multimedia SOC. And Allwinner, Mediatek and Rockchip won't bother putting a PRU in theirs.
[21:44:49] <ssi> and now to copy 50GB over the wifi... hooray
[21:48:53] <skunkworks_> and people at work wonder why we don't go wireless...
[21:49:18] <ssi> well to be fair, the machine i'm copying from is in another building which is a couple hundred feet away
[21:51:51] <zeeshan|2> cant you transfer at like 500mbps
[21:51:54] <zeeshan|2> over wifi these days
[21:52:34] <ssi> i dunno what the limits are now, but I don't think I have exactly optimal conditions here :)
[21:53:46] <ssi> copied 1G so far, been about ten minutes
[21:53:48] <ssi> not terrible
[21:54:15] <zeeshan|2> @ work?
[21:54:21] <ssi> nah, at the airport
[21:54:34] <ssi> at the airport, we have an Airport which is named "Airport"
[21:54:40] <zeeshan|2> haha
[21:54:45] <zeeshan|2> that's gotta confuse someone :P
[21:54:56] <ssi> and in my A1 hangar, there's an Airport Express which extends Airport for a chunk of the airport
[21:55:07] <ssi> and down in C8, there's another Airport Express which extends Airport for that chunk of the airport
[21:55:11] <ssi> it's all very confusing
[22:00:32] <zeeshan|2> lol
[22:05:31] <ssi> I built myself a table today
[22:06:28] <ssi> https://pbs.twimg.com/media/B149c2UCcAAEZ2s.jpg:large
[22:06:52] <XXCoder> nice!
[22:07:36] <ssi> I might put a sheet of dry erase board on top
[22:07:40] <ssi> it'll resist greasyness better
[22:07:44] <ssi> and I can write myself notes :)
[22:16:27] <zeeshan|2> wow
[22:16:28] <zeeshan|2> thats reall ynice
[22:16:45] <ssi> thx
[22:17:34] <XXCoder> yeah
[22:17:40] <XXCoder> wonder how strachproof those are
[22:19:35] <ssi> not terribly
[22:19:41] <ssi> but it's cheap and easily replaceable
[22:20:04] <XXCoder> thats true
[22:20:14] <XXCoder> cheaper than repairing table top at any rate
[22:20:40] <PetefromTn_andro> I use MDF on all my shop tables
[22:21:55] <PetefromTn_andro> It's smooth,cheap,takes a beating,and when it gets dirty just hit it with a dual action sander
[22:22:12] <ssi> I don't like mdf because if it gets wet it's screwed
[22:22:14] <PetefromTn_andro> And it looks good again.
[22:22:31] <PetefromTn_andro> I get it wet all the time.
[22:22:44] <ssi> I bet you do
[22:22:46] <PetefromTn_andro> Greasy wet grungy
[22:23:04] <PetefromTn_andro> Drill holes in it.
[22:23:12] <XXCoder> when it look like dirt its well seasoned
[22:23:12] <PetefromTn_andro> Tig weld on it
[22:23:55] <PetefromTn_andro> That table you worked off in my shop has had that same surface for almost six years
[22:24:43] <PetefromTn_andro> We did the same thing in the woodshops I worked in too.
[22:25:01] <ssi> my benches at home are all mdf topped
[22:25:06] <ssi> and several of them got screwed up
[22:25:11] <ssi> although I think it was battery acid that did it
[22:26:13] <PetefromTn_andro> If you manage to get it damage d just flip it over or slap another sheet on if.
[22:26:24] <PetefromTn_andro> It's so cheap
[22:27:06] <PetefromTn_andro> I have beaten the Shit out of that table in so many ways. It still looks good
[22:27:49] <PetefromTn_andro> But it's your table man put whatever you want on it.
[22:28:47] <PetefromTn_andro> I used to have a table that was mdf but I skinned it with some stainless steel sheet
[22:29:04] <XXCoder> theres couple tables like that at work
[22:29:09] <XXCoder> its been beaten the shit out of it
[22:29:16] <XXCoder> for decades
[22:29:20] <XXCoder> still working
[22:29:35] <PetefromTn_andro> It was nice but it scratched easily and it got dented and gouged from sliding heavy parts on it.
[22:30:34] <PetefromTn_andro> I got tired of catching stuff on it while sliding parts around so I just use the mdf now and occasionally sand it smooth
[22:30:44] <zeeshan|2> ssi wtf mdf
[22:30:56] <zeeshan|2> i thought we were anti mdf :/
[22:31:32] <XXCoder> right uses, zeeshan|2. right uses.
[22:31:48] <zeeshan|2> the only use for mdf is in the landfil
[22:31:49] <zeeshan|2> :-)
[22:31:52] <zeeshan|2> jk
[22:31:59] <ssi> we are anti mdf :P
[23:42:12] <renesis> zeeshan|2: its one of the best acoustic materials available
[23:42:31] <renesis> pro speakers are plywood, studio speakers are usually MDF