#linuxcnc | Logs for 2014-10-29

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[00:03:00] <WalterN> oh hey, cathode
[00:03:19] <WalterN> cathode: http://seattle.craigslist.org/sno/bfs/4727300726.html
[00:07:29] <WalterN> pretty good deal I think
[00:09:35] <PetefromTn_andro> Evening folks
[00:14:18] <Connor> PetefromTn_andro: Evening?
[00:15:19] <PetefromTn_andro> Well what can I say to that hehe
[00:15:44] <Connor> How goes the cleaning ?
[00:15:53] <PetefromTn_andro> I've been scrubbing grease and chips off the lathe all day.
[00:16:42] <PetefromTn_andro> I did think to check the run out on the spindle after captainhindsight asked about it
[00:16:58] <Connor> and ?
[00:17:14] <Connor> and did you verify the bore diameter ?
[00:17:39] <PetefromTn_andro> I put my best brown and sharp dial test indicator in my mag base and stuck it up against the spindle bore.
[00:17:58] <PetefromTn_andro> It's a .0005 indicator
[00:18:20] <PetefromTn_andro> And the damn needle barely moved
[00:18:33] <Connor> nice.
[00:19:05] <toastyde1th> interesting tidbit that doesn't matter to most people - there's no easy way to measure true spindle runout
[00:19:24] <PetefromTn_andro> It has clean looking oil in the headstock sight window
[00:20:34] <PetefromTn_andro> There is no other way on this machine that's for sure I don't even have a Collette or Chuck or much of anything for it yet
[00:20:53] <toastyde1th> no no, I mean there's no way to one-shot measure it period
[00:21:04] <toastyde1th> not without graph paper and some time on your hands
[00:21:06] <PetefromTn_andro> But the bearings seem tight and smooth
[00:21:30] <PetefromTn_andro> I understand what you meant and I have heard that before
[00:21:38] <Connor> I'm kinda stuck on stuff right now.. Waiting for my wire duct and wire furrule to show up.
[00:21:50] <toastyde1th> (doesn't actually matter, just something that's interesting for machine checking)
[00:22:09] <Connor> Dang China vendor shipped them, and was returned because they couldn't ship 1meter long wire duct.
[00:22:19] <PetefromTn_andro> Aah
[00:23:01] <PetefromTn_andro> I gotta get some nice epoxy or industrial paint for this thing here soon
[00:23:12] <Connor> told'm what sizes I needed the duct and told em to cut it and ship it if possible.. we'll see.
[00:23:32] <PetefromTn_andro> The parts I already stripped already have some light surface rust lol
[00:23:45] <Connor> Really?
[00:23:54] <PetefromTn_andro> Yeah amazing
[00:23:56] <Connor> developed AFTER you stripped ?
[00:24:04] <PetefromTn_andro> Yup
[00:24:30] <PetefromTn_andro> No biggie I will be sanding it anyway before I shoot primer on
[00:24:35] <Connor> Must be something in the degreaser accelerating the oxidation.
[00:25:08] <PetefromTn_andro> No I did not use the degreaser on those parts
[00:25:17] <Connor> Oh. okay
[00:25:28] <PetefromTn_andro> It's funny
[00:25:45] <PetefromTn_andro> There is a bracket on the back of the apron
[00:26:37] <Connor> For ?
[00:26:39] <PetefromTn_andro> It holds all four homes and limits as well as where the cable chain hooks up
[00:27:11] <PetefromTn_andro> So you would think it would be thick and rigid
[00:27:27] <Connor> Is it not ?
[00:27:29] <PetefromTn_andro> But it's like les than an eighth inch thick
[00:27:45] <Connor> Wonder how much stress it has ?
[00:27:49] <PetefromTn_andro> I can flex it easily with my hands
[00:28:07] <PetefromTn_andro> It is L shaped
[00:28:46] <PetefromTn_andro> I thought they did a nice job on the homes and limits placement tho
[00:29:25] <Connor> Probably not that much of a stress point and they figure it wouldn't affect the accuracy of the homes.
[00:29:40] <PetefromTn_andro> The x has a home and limit and they contact a piece of metal that has a slot with a taper at both ends
[00:30:01] <PetefromTn_andro> The z has a limit and home
[00:30:08] <Connor> Was looking at some of those lathes with the tool turrets.. I'm thinking you could make one out of a rotary table..
[00:30:27] <Connor> Just not sure about the backlash of the table.
[00:30:29] <PetefromTn_andro> The limit is fixed at a point that will keep the z out of the headstock
[00:30:43] <Connor> That's nice.
[00:31:19] <PetefromTn_andro> The z limit near the other end is actually on a tapered ram mounted to the tailstock
[00:31:49] <Connor> I'm basically going to have to do a complete re-config on my since I'm upgrading to new screws and using mesa now.
[00:31:56] <PetefromTn_andro> So no matter where you put the tail stock you cannot crash into it with the apron
[00:32:17] <PetefromTn_andro> Yeah probably will.
[00:32:51] <PetefromTn_andro> The z home switch is mounted in a fixed position about a foot out from the headstock
[00:33:01] <PetefromTn_andro> Pretty cool actually
[00:33:36] <Connor> That's one thing I'm going to have to finish up.. mounting the homes / limits those are always the last thing to get added..
[00:33:40] <cathode> can anyone reccomend an inexpensive videocamera that is durable enough to record in a shop?
[00:33:41] <PetefromTn_andro> I have often wondered how you would set-up homes and limits on a cnc lathe
[00:34:47] <PetefromTn_andro> I think it is funny you mentioned that rotab idea for the toolchanger I saw a couple video on YouTube with that
[00:35:17] <Connor> Makes sense. Easy way to do it.
[00:35:30] <roycroft> cathode: i've been looking at gopro cameras for recording shop stuff
[00:35:43] <PetefromTn_andro> Yeah I talked to art about it. He has two rotabs with cnc
[00:35:44] <roycroft> they're not the greatest quality, but they're decent
[00:36:12] <roycroft> they're also waterproof, and they have heaps of mounts available
[00:36:19] <PetefromTn_andro> He did one with a dividing head
[00:36:40] <cathode> roycroft - ok
[00:36:48] <roycroft> ~$200 for a decent one
[00:36:50] <zeeshan|2> toastyde1th: still there?
[00:36:53] <cathode> i thought about that too but i was looking for a bit cheaper :P
[00:36:57] <roycroft> i don't know if that's what's in your budget or not
[00:36:57] <zeeshan|2> can you explain why you cant measure true spindle run out?
[00:36:58] <toastyde1th> zeeshan|2, yep
[00:37:04] <roycroft> and i don't have one and haven't used one
[00:37:06] <PetefromTn_andro> I might just try to get a manufactured one cheap used somehow
[00:37:14] <toastyde1th> 2 secs and i'll explain
[00:37:18] <zeeshan|2> :-)
[00:37:21] <cathode> there's some unbranded stuff from china sold on ebay in the $75 range, with similar specs to a gopro
[00:37:26] <roycroft> it's something i'm shopping for, though, and i'm leaning towards the gopro hero 3
[00:37:53] <roycroft> i'm sure there are plenty of other options
[00:38:03] <cathode> hmmm, $65... http://www.ebay.com/itm/Full-HD-1080P-Waterproof-Outdoor-Sport-Bike-Helmet-Car-Action-Camera-DVR-DV-Cam-/321389025963?pt=Camcorders_Professional_Video_Cameras&hash=item4ad4475aab
[00:39:35] <cathode> that thing is tiny enough it could be used (maybe) as a webcam attached to a machine
[00:39:50] <toastyde1th> zeeshan|2, the basic problem is that what you're measuring is some object that has nothing to do with the spindle bearing itself
[00:40:15] <toastyde1th> it just happens that through careful initial machining, it's kinda close to the actual spindle's axis of rotation
[00:40:24] <zeeshan|2> youre saying theres somting on top of the bearing inner race
[00:40:26] <zeeshan|2> that can throw error
[00:40:30] <zeeshan|2> *throw = add
[00:40:48] <toastyde1th> i'm saying that what one wants to measure is the hypothetical axis of rotation, which isn't even the inner bearing race
[00:41:01] <toastyde1th> it's a completely abstract line
[00:41:14] <toastyde1th> and it does move all over the place
[00:41:42] <zeeshan|2> that makes sense
[00:41:46] <zeeshan|2> this is why dynamic spindle runout
[00:41:48] <zeeshan|2> is different
[00:42:12] <cathode> i think i need to replace the bearings in my drill press...
[00:42:12] <toastyde1th> actually dynamic spindle runout is different again for different reasons
[00:42:16] <roycroft> it's a matter of what you want to deal with
[00:42:24] <zeeshan|2> im stupid youre right
[00:42:29] <roycroft> pay more for a name brand, and if there's a problem you can send it back to be repaired/replaced
[00:42:31] <zeeshan|2> its more to do with modes of vibration
[00:42:34] <toastyde1th> yep
[00:42:38] <toastyde1th> and there are two types
[00:42:41] <roycroft> or pay a lot less for a no-brand and just buy a new one if it breaks
[00:42:47] <toastyde1th> synchronous error, and asynchronous error
[00:43:11] <toastyde1th> synchronous error happens at some multiple of the frequenct of rotation, with the biggest errors being the fundamental and first harmonic
[00:43:34] <toastyde1th> with some other errors being linked to the harmonic based on how many bearing elements there are, etc
[00:43:56] <toastyde1th> also machine vibration tends to be synchronous
[00:44:06] <toastyde1th> (since the spindle's driving the oscillation)
[00:44:14] <toastyde1th> async is random
[00:44:41] <toastyde1th> on some machines, machine vibration looks asynchronous - it's not a hard and fast rule
[00:45:06] <zeeshan|2> thats the more annoying kind to deal with
[00:45:15] <zeeshan|2> the cnc grinders ive worked on
[00:45:18] <toastyde1th> synchronous errors are nice because they can be nulled out with the right equipment on ultraprecision lathes
[00:45:24] <toastyde1th> ya
[00:45:31] <zeeshan|2> were closed loop with the acclerometers monitoring vibrations
[00:45:39] <zeeshan|2> and compensated on the fly for em
[00:46:13] <cathode> balancing? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VKr5RZt6MQo
[00:46:14] <cathode> :)
[00:46:22] <zeeshan|2> http://www.marposs.com/backend/products/img_upload/img_big/0807171106170_products_0096.jpg
[00:46:25] <zeeshan|2> have you seen those gauges before?
[00:46:37] <toastyde1th> not a grinder guy, nope
[00:46:51] <zeeshan|2> they measure live as the tool is grinding
[00:46:56] <zeeshan|2> gets the part to within 2 um
[00:47:22] <toastyde1th> nice
[00:47:42] <zeeshan|2> i could not find out how they measure..
[00:47:44] <toastyde1th> deterministic grinding is still a bit rough
[00:48:00] <zeeshan|2> ive been told they send ultrasonic waves
[00:48:42] <zeeshan|2> https://encrypted-tbn2.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcRf1xH43e5BcirNU6V7W0HnKq5XplrK_fJGVPBLjMsv8srlb4z4Eg
[00:48:43] <zeeshan|2> better image
[00:49:05] <toastyde1th> tbh that just looks like a lvdt or cap gauge
[00:49:15] <zeeshan|2> it doesnt make copntact
[00:49:16] <zeeshan|2> w/ the part
[00:49:25] <toastyde1th> cap gages don't
[00:49:44] <zeeshan|2> so similar concept to
[00:49:48] <toastyde1th> and if you're using them for relative measurements (high frequency feedback) they don't need to be calibrated, either
[00:49:50] <zeeshan|2> cap proximity sensor
[00:49:52] <toastyde1th> yep
[00:49:59] <zeeshan|2> i wonder why its got 2 of em
[00:50:13] <toastyde1th> it may be slaved to spindle rotation
[00:50:34] <toastyde1th> that's how you do an elementary true axis of rotation measurement
[00:50:51] <toastyde1th> you measure the same point on a part, 180 degrees out via spindle rotation
[00:51:10] <toastyde1th> if it's in the same place on both sides, then the spindle hasn't moved
[00:51:17] <zeeshan|2> btw
[00:51:22] <zeeshan|2> im looking at some old pics
[00:51:25] <zeeshan|2> it does make contact
[00:51:27] <zeeshan|2> im wrong.
[00:51:31] <zeeshan|2> so it must be a lvdt
[00:51:42] <zeeshan|2> toastyde1th: gotcha
[00:51:42] <toastyde1th> works either way, lvdt's dont have much hertz stress
[00:51:55] <zeeshan|2> hertzian stress?
[00:51:56] <zeeshan|2> contact?
[00:51:59] <toastyde1th> yep
[00:52:14] <toastyde1th> only a couple grams of force, i think it comes out to be like 19 millionths of an inch or so
[00:52:29] <toastyde1th> on most lvdts
[00:52:30] <zeeshan|2> haha
[00:52:46] <zeeshan|2> we moved away from lvdts in metal forming testing in the lab
[00:52:48] <zeeshan|2> its all camera based now
[00:53:00] <zeeshan|2> cause when we're doing say bulge testing
[00:53:01] <zeeshan|2> the thing explodes
[00:53:05] <zeeshan|2> lvdt gets owned
[00:53:09] <zeeshan|2> has to be recalibrated
[00:53:48] <toastyde1th> hahaha
[00:54:32] <toastyde1th> i'm a bigger fan of cap gauges anyway
[00:54:41] <toastyde1th> the ones we had were .1 millionth of an inch resolution
[00:54:45] <zeeshan|2> jeez
[00:55:23] <toastyde1th> was great because you could put a sharpie mark on the part
[00:55:35] <toastyde1th> and use it as a clocking mark because the edge would come by like a goddamn cliff
[00:55:44] <zeeshan|2> haha
[00:55:48] <zeeshan|2> that is pretty damn cool
[00:56:00] <zeeshan|2> that's stupid sensitive
[00:56:14] <toastyde1th> tons of fun
[00:56:17] <toastyde1th> absolutely stupid to use
[00:56:19] <toastyde1th> but tons of fun
[00:56:27] <zeeshan|2> precise stuff is always cool :)
[00:56:29] <toastyde1th> 2 thou total range
[00:56:32] <zeeshan|2> haha
[00:56:36] <zeeshan|2> well thats huge though
[00:56:39] <toastyde1th> yeah
[00:56:40] <zeeshan|2> for the precision its working in
[00:56:42] <toastyde1th> several orders of magnitude
[00:57:38] <cathode> what even needs that kind of precision?
[00:57:41] <toastyde1th> one of the biggest regrets is i almost got to work on the lodtm
[00:57:48] <cathode> manufacturing class 9 ball bearings i guess..
[00:57:51] <toastyde1th> hindsight, i'm an idiot
[00:57:56] <toastyde1th> cathode, optics
[00:58:08] <toastyde1th> all manufacturing at that sensitivity is optics
[00:58:09] <zeeshan|2> yea i think
[00:58:12] <zeeshan|2> optics is the most precise
[00:58:18] <zeeshan|2> industry
[00:58:22] <toastyde1th> and related, semiconductors
[00:58:28] <toastyde1th> because litho process etc
[00:58:29] <cathode> Ah gotcha
[00:58:36] <zeeshan|2> i remember watching a documentary on hubble's mirror
[00:58:39] <cathode> and you need precise optics to put in other machines
[00:59:01] <toastyde1th> there's no good way to make aspheric optics other than machining
[00:59:23] <toastyde1th> although now there are lapping machines that have dynamically deformable laps
[00:59:36] <cathode> heh
[00:59:38] <zeeshan|2> yes
[00:59:42] <zeeshan|2> i think mit invented those
[00:59:47] <toastyde1th> but those tend to be economical on large diameter optics
[00:59:51] <toastyde1th> not on small shit
[01:00:11] <toastyde1th> and if you plan on making cell phone cameras, you HAVE to have aspheric lenses
[01:00:24] <cathode> http://www.google.com/patents/US7967662
[01:00:42] <toastyde1th> yup
[01:01:38] <toastyde1th> although i guess you could do ion milling
[01:01:48] <toastyde1th> I think that's the current record holder for high accuracy finishing
[01:04:31] <cathode> heh
[01:04:53] <cathode> i wonder how smooth crystals can be grown?
[01:05:05] <cathode> the exterior surfaces of them i mean
[01:05:50] <toastyde1th> no idea
[01:06:46] <cathode> hmm
[01:07:11] <cathode> it's 10:45 i'm trying to decide if i want to go downstairs and drill more holes or play videogames for a bit then go to bed
[01:07:14] <cathode> -___-
[01:38:51] <WalterN> cathode: just get a webcam and cover it with plastic or something
[01:39:10] <WalterN> plastic foodwrap
[02:20:44] <cathode> yea something like that
[02:20:59] <cathode> but a battery powered/cordless cam would be nice
[03:18:13] <Deejay> moinsen
[06:48:32] <Computer_Barf> http://www.baldor.com/support/Literature/Load.ashx/MN1902?ManNumber=MN1902
[06:48:54] <Computer_Barf> I am considering getting a baldor flexdrive to drive a ac servomotor
[06:49:11] <Computer_Barf> but i want to use linuxcnc
[06:49:32] <Computer_Barf> it seems to have digital ins for step and dir
[06:50:28] <Computer_Barf> but it also seems to have rs232/rs485 inputs which seem to use some sort of serial language
[06:51:14] <Computer_Barf> "FlexDriveII has fieldbus options including DeviceNet, Profibus-DP and CANopen. Onboard I/O is programmable and can be interfaced to an external PLC. "
[06:51:22] <archivist> linuxcnc can use step dir
[06:51:50] <archivist> does it also have pwm or 0-10v
[06:52:30] <Computer_Barf> accept a wide variety of input command signals to suit specific application needs, such as the industry standard +/-10V, pulse & direction, or electronic handwheel input, and it may be used for control of both rotary and linear servo motors.
[06:53:09] <Computer_Barf> ""
[06:53:13] <archivist> seems very usable
[06:54:11] <Computer_Barf> im just wondering if this whole mint thing they are talking about is something I could access through a serial connection
[06:54:24] <Computer_Barf> at the end of the pdf there are a ton of commands
[06:54:56] <Computer_Barf> "RS232 and RS485 serial channel, user selectable"
[06:55:16] <archivist> you may need to set it up via serial for the more sensible mode you want to run it in
[06:56:04] <Computer_Barf> you mean i might need to get into the serial first before using step dir?
[06:57:09] <archivist> I have not read that manual :)
[07:04:46] <balestrino> any experience about linuxcnc on H97 chipset?
[08:25:46] <pcw_home> H81 works fine not sure about H97
[09:10:39] <cpresser> pcw_home: since pncconf is running on your machine, could you give me a hint on where it loads the pncconf python module from?
[09:11:05] <cpresser> i just updated master from the buildbot, and cant seem to find the required module anywhere in the debian package
[09:13:00] <cpresser> they seem to be missing in the debian package
[09:29:00] <pcw_home> let me try
[09:29:51] <pcw_home> do you have a RIP setup?
[09:31:42] <cpresser> no. just the debian-package via apt-get
[09:32:08] <cpresser> it seems to be a issue with the debian package. since it does not include the required files
[09:32:26] <cpresser> they are present when i compile from git-master
[09:32:40] <pcw_home> Yeah thats harder for me to try here
[09:32:54] <cpresser> ill see if i can fix the debian package
[09:33:22] <cpresser> for now, ill try to copy the files manually, or use RIP for the wizard
[09:33:41] <pcw_home> looks like module are loaded from lib/python/pncconf
[09:36:00] <cpresser> yes, and this path (and contents) is not part of the debian package
[09:37:35] <cpresser> anyway, path-handling in pnccong is not well engineered. when i preload a python-lib-dir via environment variables, pncconf cant find the images. they are coded relative to that path
[09:39:29] <zeeshan|2> hi guys
[09:39:51] <zeeshan|2> is there anyway to compensate in linuxcnc for ball screw lead error if i have a ball screw lead error map.
[09:39:58] <zeeshan|2> . = ?
[09:40:07] <pcw_home> Yep
[09:40:37] <zeeshan|2> im getting wonky links from google when i search "ball screw mapping linuxcnc"
[09:40:38] <pcw_home> max 256 segments I think
[09:44:16] <_methods> http://i.imgur.com/wo3D8.jpg
[09:44:39] <zeeshan|2> delicious
[09:45:37] <pcw_home> http://linuxcnc.org/docs/html/config/ini_config.html#_axis_lt_num_gt_section_a_id_sub_axis_section_a
[09:47:26] <zeeshan|2> when i click that link
[09:47:29] <zeeshan|2> it takes me to the top of the ini file
[09:47:32] <pcw_home> (scroll down to comp file)
[09:47:39] <cradek> http://linuxcnc.org/docs/html/config/ini_config.html#sub:AXIS-section
[09:47:58] <zeeshan|2> thank you!
[09:48:05] <cradek> I think that + in the example is bogus
[09:48:24] <cradek> (it was stupid to support two formats of comp file)
[09:51:36] <zeeshan|2> to clarify this
[09:51:53] <zeeshan|2> the very first entry would be the 0.000 position, in comp mode 0
[09:51:59] <zeeshan|2> so itd be 0 0 0
[09:52:49] <zeeshan|2> next could be 1.000 1.01 0.99 , 2.000 2.000 1.999
[09:52:50] <zeeshan|2> etc?
[09:53:01] <zeeshan|2> does it interpolate between the values
[10:01:10] <zeeshan|2> pcw_home: lol
[10:01:19] <zeeshan|2> as i was writing the email door bell rang
[10:01:22] <zeeshan|2> "special delivery"
[10:07:33] <cpresser> pcw_home: the last issue I mentioned is a typo in one of the pyton modules. i just send a patch to the ML#
[10:14:23] <tjtr33> pcw_home, is it possible to order 7i75 with vertical DB25 connectors ?
[10:14:23] <tjtr33> ( like on 7i80DB ). It might allow closer spacing on DIN rail.
[10:14:58] <pcw_home> Probably not since we wont have one in stock
[10:15:37] <tjtr33> can order without connector ? ;)
[10:16:21] <_methods> can you use a right angle adpater on the card?
[10:16:32] <_methods> http://www.dx.com/p/pci-e-right-angle-riser-card-55277?tc=USD&gclid=CNyPgMyP0sECFbNj7AodJXYAEA
[10:17:33] <_methods> i think they make riser cable too so you can mount teh card wherever you want
[10:17:45] <_methods> http://www.dx.com/p/pci-express-pci-e-1x-to-36-pin-riser-card-extender-ribbon-cable-for-1u-2u-155034#.VFEAgxb4ouI
[10:18:30] <tjtr33> uh, this is a DB25 connector, and yes an adapter could be sued if i wanted even more pin2pin connections, its not a riser card
[10:18:57] <tjtr33> and btw riser cards for pic/ppcie have been talked about here, they were not liked
[10:19:47] <tjtr33> i thiught that putting the host connector in line with the DIN rail was ... un-handy
[10:20:46] <zeeshan|2> lol methods
[10:20:53] <zeeshan|2> ive never seen one of those angle riser cards
[10:20:55] <zeeshan|2> looks cool
[10:21:07] <_methods> yeah they work good especially in like a 1u
[10:21:46] <_methods> if you need to mount a card in a weird spot the wire extension ones are handy
[10:22:13] <_methods> but i can see a flat cable being bad for linuxcnc comm's
[10:24:11] <zeeshan|2> noiseeeee
[10:24:45] <_methods> yeah i've never tried to use one for that purpose
[10:24:50] <CaptHindsight> PCIe was designed for it
[10:25:05] <tjtr33> huh? but mesa uses vertical db connectors on 7i80DB "( like on 7i80DB ). It might allow closer spacing on DIN rail."
[10:25:06] <_methods> so it should be fine then?
[10:25:10] <CaptHindsight> i use them all the time
[10:25:32] <_methods> cool
[10:26:03] <zeeshan|2> stuff looks sexy
[10:26:09] <zeeshan|2> now that i have it in front of me
[10:26:18] <zeeshan|2> i feel like i should order another set for the lathe
[10:26:19] <zeeshan|2> lol
[10:26:26] <zeeshan|2> cause it'll easily fit into the box
[10:27:17] <zeeshan|2> http://www.cnc4pc.com/Store/osc/product_info.php?cPath=25&products_id=129
[10:27:25] <zeeshan|2> is there a more compact pcb than this
[10:27:31] <zeeshan|2> that doesnt have the big ass ethernet connector
[10:28:30] <CaptHindsight> http://www.overclock.net/t/1427731/pci-express-extender-cables-benchmarked
[10:29:02] <CaptHindsight> Mesa sells extender cards and cables as well
[10:30:37] <zeeshan|2> http://www.google.ca/url?sa=i&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=images&cd=&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=0CAcQjRw&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.hardwarebbq.com%2Focn-member-show4pro-shows-off-stunning-wall-mount-water-cooled-pc-rig-maxxplanck-v2%2F&ei=hQNRVP-tFo7-yQS9vILgCg&bvm=bv.78597519,d.aWw&psig=AFQjCNGWS7IDe077Se88kD_H7NxYvyXr_A&ust=1414681857183791
[10:30:47] <zeeshan|2> is that the 'wall mounted' computer hes referring to
[10:30:58] <tjtr33> yeah i read back, the bad marks were on single slot to dual extenders ( 2 cards and one slot ). andy also had good luck with flexible extenders
[10:31:44] <zeeshan|2> that looks so cool.
[10:34:58] <zeeshan|2> you guys will know this better than i can google
[10:34:59] <zeeshan|2> http://www.cableforanydevice.com/images/belkin-molded-computer-ac-power-cable-12-ft-4-m-3-1.jpg
[10:35:07] <zeeshan|2> those types of computer power cables
[10:35:10] <zeeshan|2> can you buy them in 12 gauge?
[10:35:15] <zeeshan|2> the ones i see at the stores are all 18 awg
[10:36:52] <zeeshan|2> they are impossible to find locally :/
[10:37:27] <_methods> 12 might be hard to find
[10:37:51] <_methods> is that in spec for that plug config at 12awg?
[10:37:59] <zeeshan|2> actually im relooking
[10:38:01] <zeeshan|2> its 10awg that i need
[10:38:26] <zeeshan|2> er. sec
[10:38:28] <_methods> i'm not sure if you're "supposed" to run that style plug with 10awg
[10:38:55] <CaptHindsight> you won't find a 10ga pc power cord
[10:39:08] <zeeshan|2> 2256 / 110
[10:39:24] <CaptHindsight> http://www.altex.com/PC-Power-Cord-9-10-14GA-POWER910-14-P154039.aspx 14ga
[10:39:25] <zeeshan|2> 20.5 A max current draw by the servo drive
[10:39:42] <CaptHindsight> http://www.parts-express.com/iec-6-ft-ac-power-cord-black-14-3--110-144
[10:39:43] <zeeshan|2> @ 110VAC , 1.25x safety factor
[10:39:49] <zeeshan|2> 25A
[10:40:47] <CaptHindsight> that type of plug and socket is not designed for that current
[10:40:58] <zeeshan|2> im not sure why theyre using it on this servo drive?
[10:41:12] <CaptHindsight> what power connector is on the servo drive?
[10:41:19] <zeeshan|2> try8ing to find a pic
[10:41:21] <zeeshan|2> but its being a nightmare
[10:42:24] <zeeshan|2> http://i.ebayimg.com/00/s/MTExM1gxNjAw/z/YcAAAOSwq7JULDpb/$_57.JPG
[10:42:37] <zeeshan|2> looks like a computer power plug to me
[10:43:55] <CaptHindsight> then your specs are wrong
[10:44:02] <zeeshan|2> huh
[10:44:13] <CaptHindsight> whats the link to that drive?
[10:44:20] <zeeshan|2> http://www.a-m-c.com/download/datasheet/be25a20ac.pdf
[10:44:26] <zeeshan|2> page 3
[10:44:31] <zeeshan|2> look @ max continuous output power
[10:44:33] <zeeshan|2> 2256 W
[10:45:26] <archivist> that connector handles kettles in the uk at nearly 3 kw 240v
[10:45:29] <zeeshan|2> "Standard IEC 60320-C14 AC Receptacle (male pins)"
[10:46:06] <zeeshan|2> on the internet it says
[10:46:11] <zeeshan|2> a C14 connector is max current 10A..
[10:46:21] <_methods> there ya have it
[10:46:26] <archivist> although the real kettle connector has a groove so a standard IEC wont fit
[10:46:30] <zeeshan|2> then how can this drive be possibly
[10:46:33] <zeeshan|2> drawing 2256 W?
[10:46:36] <zeeshan|2> that makes no sense at all..
[10:46:58] <_methods> c15/c16
[10:46:59] <CaptHindsight> Maximum Power Dissipation at Continuous Current W 119
[10:47:20] <CaptHindsight> zeeshan|2: so how will you be cooling this unit?
[10:47:27] <zeeshan|2> fans
[10:48:03] <zeeshan|2> im mounting them vertically
[10:48:53] <archivist> so the bottom ones can heat the higher?
[10:49:09] <zeeshan|2> no
[10:49:17] <zeeshan|2> im talking about the drives themself
[10:49:24] <zeeshan|2> instead of mounting them flat, ill mount them standing up
[10:49:38] <zeeshan|2> better just to see ap ic
[10:49:52] <zeeshan|2> http://i.imgur.com/ci50ock.png
[10:50:06] <zeeshan|2> i might be moving the bottom box to the top
[10:50:30] <zeeshan|2> or putting them side by side
[10:50:38] <zeeshan|2> so that way i can just have fans on the top, intake on bottom
[10:51:29] <zeeshan|2> so can anyone make sense of that nonsense? :P
[10:51:34] <CaptHindsight> the data sheet doesn't show any heatsink attached like in your pic
[10:51:39] <zeeshan|2> 2256 w consumption
[10:51:48] <zeeshan|2> but 10A 110VAC plug?!?!
[10:51:58] <zeeshan|2> CaptHindsight: its a crappy pdf :)
[10:52:14] <archivist> the kettle version of the connector handles the current
[10:52:28] <zeeshan|2> http://i.ebayimg.com/00/s/MTE0NFgxNjAw/z/~icAAOSwq7JUAuF1/$_57.JPG
[10:52:32] <zeeshan|2> thats the pic of the exact one i bought
[10:52:37] <zeeshan|2> you can see the heat sink in the bac
[10:52:57] <zeeshan|2> you can even see on that
[10:53:02] <zeeshan|2> 30-125VAC input
[10:53:09] <zeeshan|2> 240VAC 16A slow burn
[10:53:27] <CaptHindsight> zeeshan|2: unfortunately you're making a few too many assumptions and working with poor docs
[10:53:39] <zeeshan|2> CaptHindsight: explain :-)
[10:54:20] <archivist> zeeshan|2, they are up to 16A depending on class http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IEC_60320
[10:54:43] <zeeshan|2> archivist: it says c14 in the documentation
[10:54:45] <zeeshan|2> for this drive
[10:54:51] <zeeshan|2> which is 10A according to that wiki article
[10:56:24] <CaptHindsight> they don't mention how they arrived at Maximum Power Dissipation at Continuous Current W 119
[10:57:19] <zeeshan|2> FEA? :P
[10:57:23] <zeeshan|2> experiment? :P
[10:57:30] <archivist> I do not trust the WP article
[10:57:41] <CaptHindsight> if I knew which devices they are using for the outputs it would help, then I could just run the numbers for the cooling required
[10:58:39] <archivist> I assume they dont expect max continuous to ever occur anyway
[10:59:54] <archivist> we use 13A fuses for those connectors here, so that wp article has to be wrong
[11:00:48] <tjtr33> "Please improve it by verifying the claims made and adding inline citations"
[11:00:51] <_methods> some of the prongs onc the c13/14 are only rated to 6A
[11:00:52] <archivist> but kettles use the c15 version which will handle the temperature rise a bit better
[11:01:02] <_methods> they use thin connectors
[11:01:34] <CaptHindsight> the thermal management is based on what the maximum ambient temp will be and all the thermal resistance back to the internal die temp
[11:01:41] <archivist> I think the spring is stronger in the kettle version
[11:02:36] <zeeshan|2> <- just emailed the manufacturer
[11:02:42] <archivist> but you will never reach full load continuously unless being silly
[11:04:00] <zeeshan|2> According to the BE25A20AC Servo drive documentation, Max. continuous power is 2256W and the AC input is 120VAC. I = P/V = 2256/120 = 18.8A. Multiplying a safety factor of 1.25, the wire size rating should be 23.5A. According to this, I would require 10AWG wire. I looked at the data spec sheet and it says "Standard IEC 60320-C14 AC Receptacle (male pins)" for the AC input connector. Looking up thi
[11:04:10] <zeeshan|2> s spec, the C14 connector is only rated for 10A. 10A*120VAC = 1200W which is no where close to the 2256W max continuous power number. Could you please explain why there is such a big discrepancy and also what size cable I should be using?
[11:04:15] <zeeshan|2> fair enough question?
[11:04:55] <CaptHindsight> the next question should be clarification of the thermal specs
[11:05:04] <zeeshan|2> whats so confusing about it?
[11:05:24] <zeeshan|2> its saying it disspiates 120W when it's under full strain
[11:05:34] <zeeshan|2> thats as much as an old school light bulb
[11:05:41] <CaptHindsight> it's like their power specs, not enough information
[11:05:42] <zeeshan|2> easy enough to deal with :P
[11:06:01] <archivist> it is all specmanship, they get away with standard duty parts rather than continuous duty
[11:06:28] <zeeshan|2> theres no way that c14 connector would blow up even drawing 30Amps
[11:06:37] <zeeshan|2> the terminals are thick and big enough
[11:06:39] <zeeshan|2> it might run out
[11:06:39] <skunkworks> zeeshan|2, the drives are usually rated peak - continuous is usually Amps/2
[11:06:41] <zeeshan|2> but it wont set on fire
[11:06:41] <CaptHindsight> what does dissipate 120w mean?
[11:06:56] <CaptHindsight> it's a meaningless quantity
[11:06:56] <zeeshan|2> CaptHindsight: it means if you'ree in a closed system with the drive
[11:06:59] <archivist> internal heat of the drive
[11:07:04] <zeeshan|2> you'll notice 120W of heat generation.
[11:07:05] <skunkworks> so 25a peak 14amp continous
[11:07:21] <CaptHindsight> no, thats not what it means
[11:08:10] <skunkworks> hmm - didn't really read. Never mind :)
[11:08:15] <zeeshan|2> skunkworks: hehe
[11:08:16] <zeeshan|2> :)
[11:08:40] <zeeshan|2> CaptHindsight: i am confused.
[11:08:44] <zeeshan|2> i think of it like a lightbulb
[11:08:52] <zeeshan|2> 100W lightbulb maybe uses 5W to generate photons
[11:08:59] <zeeshan|2> the rest of the 95W is heat
[11:09:25] <zeeshan|2> i'm thinking its the same way for this drive. when it's drawing 2256 W continuous, 119W of that is waste heat
[11:09:35] <zeeshan|2> which needs to be dissipated from the chamber that it's in
[11:10:19] <CaptHindsight> that's not it at all
[11:10:26] <zeeshan|2> why?
[11:11:38] <Rab> zeeshan|2, that seems like astonishing efficiency.
[11:11:47] <zeeshan|2> haha
[11:11:48] <zeeshan|2> :D
[11:11:49] <CaptHindsight> I'm trying to find a good article for you. Wakefield used to have a great overview
[11:12:01] <zeeshan|2> hey i fully admit
[11:12:06] <zeeshan|2> im not an electronics expert :P
[11:12:12] <archivist> depends how good the mosfets are
[11:12:28] <zeeshan|2> rab 120W of heat generated is unreasonable?
[11:12:30] <pcw_home> Drives are very efficient
[11:12:43] <zeeshan|2> i thought that weas the whole point of modern electronics
[11:12:51] <zeeshan|2> more efficient, less waste heat
[11:12:52] <zeeshan|2> smaller package
[11:12:54] <pcw_home> 120 probably means IGBTs
[11:13:19] <pcw_home> MOSFETs are more efficent but mainly for lower voltages
[11:13:33] <Rab> zeeshan|2, ~95% efficient. I don't know if it's reasonable or not, just impressive.
[11:13:38] <pcw_home> (well SIC Mosfets are changing that)
[11:13:55] <zeeshan|2> rab arent SMPS 99% efficient? :P
[11:14:01] <pcw_home> Yes that reasonable for a motor drive
[11:14:03] <zeeshan|2> like the meanwells
[11:14:05] <archivist> they vary
[11:14:06] <Rab> zeeshan|2, ha ha ha, no.
[11:15:06] <pcw_home> maybe high 90s (99% is very unlikely for a power supply)
[11:15:07] <zeeshan|2> haha
[11:15:10] <zeeshan|2> its 87% efficiency
[11:15:15] <zeeshan|2> for the 24V 10A
[11:15:39] <zeeshan|2> seems like they get more efficient for higher voltages
[11:15:41] <Rab> The 24V 10A I just looked up is 89% efficient, better choose that one. ;)
[11:16:13] <pcw_home> effiiciency costs money (and space)
[11:16:27] <PetefromTn_> Thank god for simple green LOL
[11:16:28] <zeeshan|2> high efficiency --> less cooling needs?
[11:16:28] <Rab> Oh, it's 3-phase 340-550VAC input.
[11:16:39] <Rab> zeeshan|2, indeed.
[11:17:34] <zeeshan|2> outside a professors office
[11:17:43] <zeeshan|2> there was a box of about 50 computer power cables
[11:17:48] <zeeshan|2> 6 feet each
[11:17:57] <zeeshan|2> "take a couple home for free"
[11:18:02] <zeeshan|2> i was so excited till i read 18awg :[
[11:18:20] <_methods> man i use the shit out of those things
[11:18:23] <zeeshan|2> i still took some, cause they were FREE!
[11:18:25] <_methods> take as many as you can
[11:18:35] <_methods> great for projects
[11:18:48] <skunkworks> we threw a bunch out.. and we still have boxes of them.
[11:18:54] <_methods> useing old server power supplies for whatever
[11:19:15] <zeeshan|2> im suprised the copper thieves didnt rob em
[11:19:27] <skunkworks> self replicating..
[11:19:34] <zeeshan|2> they see free
[11:19:39] <zeeshan|2> and Bam its gone
[11:20:00] <zeeshan|2> they see 1000 foot cat 5 cable spool
[11:20:01] <zeeshan|2> BOOM gone
[11:20:14] <zeeshan|2> i literally had it sitting outside for 45 min at my dads office
[11:20:21] <zeeshan|2> when wiring the security cameras
[11:20:21] <zeeshan|2> haha
[11:20:30] <CaptHindsight> zeeshan|2: I'm looking for a good doc for you. You can start by taking the max watts the die will carry then start adding up all the thermal resistances between the die and the air outside the enclosure
[11:20:46] <zeeshan|2> CaptHindsight: screw t hat
[11:20:51] <zeeshan|2> ill put em in a box
[11:20:54] <zeeshan|2> and measure temperature!
[11:21:03] <zeeshan|2> less work :-)
[11:21:15] <zeeshan|2> i'm kidding, i still would like to see the article
[11:21:26] <zeeshan|2> i gtg back to studying. ill check it later in the logs
[11:23:57] * JT-Shop got a new noodle maker http://gnipsel.com/images/Stihl%20MS-291/Sthil%20MS-291%2001.jpg
[11:28:03] <CaptHindsight> zeeshan|2: this sort of covers it (old powerPC thermal doc) http://smartdata.usbid.com/datasheets/usbid/2000/2000-q2/an007.pdf
[12:02:13] <pcw_home> Hmm, our local feedstore has a geep
[12:02:34] <pcw_home> fairly rare
[12:46:08] <tjtr33> geeps & noodles, i had to google em both
[12:46:51] <pcw_home> a geep is also a goat/sheep hybrid
[12:47:17] <pcw_home> (which is what our local feed store has)
[13:00:34] <_methods> ah wow how long has kurt had those dovelock vises out?
[13:01:14] <_methods> http://www.kurtworkholding.com/master-english-p-3241-l-en.html
[13:01:18] <_methods> pretty spiffy
[13:12:05] <PetefromTn_> That is cool. Wonder if that will fit my D688... my jaws have the slot for the work stops and you can add the mitee bite stuff on it but those are pretty sweet.
[13:15:30] <_methods> double your pleasure on the jaws
[13:18:20] <_methods> damn brilliant idea though
[13:19:31] <_methods> man that would make swappin jaws so easy too
[13:19:39] <_methods> no more undoin the bolts in the jaws
[13:19:50] <_methods> just loosen those dovetail slides pull the jaws out
[13:19:56] <_methods> slap new ones in
[13:20:18] <_methods> damn i wish i had thought of that one
[13:22:30] <Connor> Are those machinable ?
[13:26:02] <Connor> I wonder how hard it would be to make those for a 5" vise..
[13:28:19] <Tecan> http://www.xup.to/dl,86382019/finishedDarkTheme-andCodeblocks_theme.tar/ you gotta find your own icons in this one
[13:28:35] <Connor> Tecan: huh ?
[13:28:50] <Tecan> its for gnome2 or mate
[13:29:06] <Tecan> not telling you just saying
[13:32:26] <Tecan> http://i.imgur.com/t9QaXbo.png
[13:37:24] <_methods> the jaws that go in them are machinable
[13:37:32] <_methods> those are just the jaw holders
[13:39:57] <pcw_home> email from Buy.Now@.MISSING-HOST-NAME must be important
[13:44:43] <roycroft> that master jaw system seems kind of nice in a way
[13:44:48] <roycroft> and not too expensive
[13:45:17] <roycroft> but if you need to mill some custom soft jaws for a one-off project, having to make dovetails for them would cost a lot of extra time
[13:46:22] <PetefromTn_> I think they are assuming you just buy the jaws from them in different sizes for shops that don't have time to mess with making them.
[13:46:48] <PetefromTn_> But yeah you are right it would be more time consuming than the little program I wrote to machine another set of sacrificial jaws for my Kurt
[13:48:08] <roycroft> if they're cheap that's fine
[13:48:20] <roycroft> but two little strips of aluminium are pretty darn cheap
[13:48:31] <PetefromTn_> agreed
[13:49:02] <_methods> yeah man just set up a mill to mill alum bar stock 3' lengths with dovetail
[13:49:11] <_methods> then you cut them down whenever you need some jawws
[13:49:19] <_methods> or just buy them lol
[13:49:32] <_methods> like chick jaws
[13:49:42] <roycroft> i guess i'm failing to see the benefit of the dovetails
[13:49:59] <_methods> quick changover
[13:50:02] <PetefromTn_> the only real benefit is quick changeover
[13:50:04] <_methods> use both sides of jaw
[13:50:05] <PetefromTn_> LOL
[13:50:07] <_methods> and repeatable
[13:50:16] <archivist> to lock you into buying the ready made ones
[13:50:27] <PetefromTn_> but it also looks like you will loose quite a bit of vise area too
[13:50:38] <_methods> yeah the thickness of the master jaws
[13:51:02] <roycroft> i'm not trashing the product
[13:51:12] <roycroft> just trying to put it in perspective
[13:51:16] <PetefromTn_> They already sell a TON of different custom and sacrificial jaws for the KURT vises. Pretty standard really
[13:51:17] <_methods> yeah for the hobbyist
[13:51:19] <_methods> no real reason
[13:51:35] <_methods> but for production or repeat jobs
[13:51:39] <_methods> perfect
[13:51:51] <PetefromTn_> I would like to get a set of those mitee bite jaws with hold teeth so I have less flashing to machine on the second side of the parts I make
[13:52:19] <_methods> yeah
[13:52:30] <PetefromTn_> apparently they hold like .060 or less material like a crocodile...
[13:52:42] <_methods> yeah they do
[13:53:02] <_methods> i got some to try out
[13:53:19] <PetefromTn_> are they real expensive? I have not checked..
[13:53:22] <_methods> they worked great
[13:54:03] <PetefromTn_> The shop I had worked in before had a bunch of them setup on custom fixtures for products that customers came in for on a consistent basis.
[13:54:15] <PetefromTn_> They seemed to work quite well but I never got to use them.
[13:55:20] <PetefromTn_> Well just a little more scrubbing on this new lathe and it will be all cleaned up.
[13:55:44] <PetefromTn_> I have gone thru a half dozen scrub pads and god knows how many rags tho LOL
[13:56:32] <PetefromTn_> Once I get it all sparklin' I will start the masking and shoot some fresh paint on the appropriate bits.
[13:56:55] <PetefromTn_> Then I can start piecing it together into a nice CNC retrofit.
[13:57:27] <PetefromTn_> It's funny the belt drive area cabinet is kind of a cream color white, the topside is a very light gray and the bottom side is darker gray.
[13:57:42] <PetefromTn_> It's like they couldn't make up their minds LOL
[13:59:02] <jdh> paint it bright orange.
[13:59:12] <PetefromTn_> Dear God no..
[13:59:27] <PetefromTn_> maybe RED or BLUE but NEVER ORANGE!!!
[13:59:35] <jdh> like... Vol Orange
[13:59:50] <PetefromTn_> I am actually thinking I quite like the cream white color inside there.
[14:00:10] <PetefromTn_> Plus I would not have to paint the inside of any of the cabinets just everything outside if I used that color
[14:00:23] <PetefromTn_> AND it would match my Cincinatti kinda which is also a cream color
[14:00:30] <PetefromTn_> light beige sorta
[14:00:57] <PetefromTn_> I refinished my old RF45 in a color like that and I quite liked it.
[14:01:02] <jdh> orange woudl be good for the Cincinatti too.
[14:01:09] <PetefromTn_> SHows dirt easy tho..
[14:01:14] <jdh> Bengal orange and black.
[14:01:28] <PetefromTn_> Purple with pink Polka dots?
[14:04:25] <JT-Shop> PetefromTn_, see my noodle maker?
[14:04:38] <PetefromTn_> no what is a noodle maker?
[14:04:52] <JT-Shop> http://gnipsel.com/images/Stihl%20MS-291/Sthil%20MS-291%2001.jpg
[14:05:22] <PetefromTn_> Bigass sthil chainsaw?
[14:05:35] <PetefromTn_> It sure is pretty tho.
[14:05:47] <tjtr33> the chips come out like noodles, long, stringy
[14:06:00] <PetefromTn_> Did you just buy it or did you refinish it or something>
[14:06:08] <JT-Shop> medium large 3.75hp
[14:06:16] <PetefromTn_> nice
[14:06:18] <JT-Shop> new
[14:06:22] <PetefromTn_> Be careful with that thing..
[14:06:28] <PetefromTn_> Damn things are dangerous LOL
[14:06:54] <JT-Shop> tjtr33, when you cut with the grain that is noodling as the wood that comes out looks like noodles
[14:06:56] <PetefromTn_> I used to have a nice older one but it died and I could not fix it.
[14:07:07] <JT-Shop> you get chips when you cut across the grain
[14:07:11] <tjtr33> yah watched a video before i saw that
[14:07:34] <JT-Shop> a sharp powerful saw is safer than a dull worn out saw
[14:07:42] <PetefromTn_> I like watching those badass dirtbike engine'd ones getting run.
[14:08:05] <JT-Shop> the racing ones?
[14:08:09] <PetefromTn_> the ones with the HUGE expansion chamber exhausts that sound like Grand Prix bikes hehe
[14:08:11] <PetefromTn_> yeah
[14:08:21] <PetefromTn_> just nutz
[14:08:24] <tjtr33> in the 60's we put husqys on go karts, duals w live axles
[14:09:28] <PetefromTn_> thats what mine was actually a Husquavarna.. Loved it until it died..
[14:09:37] <PetefromTn_> BRB
[14:24:57] <PetefromTn_> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jTu6S_2stRA Happy Halloween hehe
[14:25:23] <_methods> hahah
[14:26:12] <_methods> how the hell did they do the height control on that
[14:26:42] <PetefromTn_> looks like a 3d toolpath
[14:26:55] <PetefromTn_> just probably guessed at the curvature
[14:27:18] <PetefromTn_> I would think they could have probably run ten times as fast and still got the same result.
[14:30:20] <PetefromTn_> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e6dJaAcF7M0 The pumpkin is kinda boring but check out that homebuilt CNC rig hehe
[14:32:19] <_methods> wow
[14:32:27] <_methods> well at least it's not the pipe machine lol
[14:32:31] <_methods> pretty close
[14:32:57] <PetefromTn_> yeah I know right.
[14:33:57] <lair82> Hey Guys, anyone know what "Bug: call stack underrun" would indicate when it shows up as a fault?
[14:35:08] <_methods> were you running a path when that heppened?
[14:35:47] <tjtr33> need context
[14:36:13] <_methods> weren't you doing the foam cutter thing?
[14:42:12] <Tom_itx> JT-Shop, i've got it's little brother
[14:42:27] <Tom_itx> 10" iirc for taking up the tree
[14:43:25] <Tom_itx> and it's long skinny brother on a pole
[14:43:53] <Tom_itx> and an old mac which is probably older than you and i
[14:44:03] <Tom_itx> with a 24" bar
[14:45:00] <JT-Shop> I
[14:45:16] <JT-Shop> 've got an 021 with a 14" bar that I've used for years
[14:45:32] <Tom_itx> got tired of taking the chains in for sharpening too so i got a grinder for that
[14:45:53] <Tom_itx> i like the little one because the handle is in the middle... very well balanced for tree climbing
[14:46:02] <Tom_itx> doesn't wear ya out near as quick
[14:46:16] <Tom_itx> top handle
[14:46:17] * JT-Shop doesn't climb trees any more... I bring them down to me
[14:46:23] <Tom_itx> me either
[14:46:27] <Tom_itx> not much anyway
[14:46:35] <Tom_itx> still got all the stuff though
[14:46:54] <Tom_itx> stihl are hard to beat though
[14:49:10] <JT-Shop> yea, I got the 021 in '97 and cut some huge trees down to build my house
[14:49:43] <Tom_itx> i got a spare bar for the old mac for trunks
[14:49:47] <Tom_itx> save it just for that
[14:50:17] <Tom_itx> it may be the 24", i don't recall
[14:50:24] <Tom_itx> i think i could get a 28 for it but didn't
[14:50:27] <JT-Shop> nice, that's big one
[14:50:47] <JT-Shop> the MS-291 is 20" max
[14:50:49] <Tom_itx> i did cut one down it wouldn't go halfway through though
[14:51:18] <Tom_itx> it's a workhorse
[14:51:33] <Tom_itx> i think i gave like $50 for it 10 yrs ago used
[14:51:59] <JT-Shop> whew that paint stinks... I gotta get out of here for a while
[14:53:20] <Tom_itx> i kept 3-4 chains for each one so i could swap em out on a job and fix em later
[14:54:23] <Tom_itx> that one i couldn't cut through... i found some square nails about 6" inside the tree completely hidden
[15:59:53] <Connor> pcw Did I read correctly that the ground on used for the Field I/O is isolated from the ground for the encoders / step and dir ?
[17:30:18] <Deejay> gn8
[17:32:10] <PCW> Connor: yes field I/O is full isolated from PC
[17:42:09] <ssi> hi
[18:06:54] <CaptHindsight> http://3dprintingindustry.com/2014/10/29/hewlett-packard-emerges-witness-birth-3d-printing-behemoth/
[18:07:25] <CaptHindsight> they are just using inkjet to print a UV cured binder onto various powders
[18:08:15] <cpresser> okay.. i just tried kernel 3.14 from wheezy-backports. now i get a (Permission Denied) error when loading hm2_pci. any hints?
[18:08:17] <CaptHindsight> http://www.3ders.org/articles/20141029-hp-wants-to-rewrite-the-rules-of-3d-printing-with-new-multi-jet-fusion-tech.html
[18:08:42] <CaptHindsight> cpresser: are you still root?
[18:08:50] <cpresser> nope, as user
[18:10:10] <CaptHindsight> cpresser: how would that kernel work anyway? it's not preempt_rt or RTAI
[18:10:29] <cpresser> "3.14-0.bpo.2-rt-amd64 #1 SMP PREEMPT RT Debian 3.14.15-2~bpo70+1"
[18:11:49] <CaptHindsight> cpresser: I'd ask in the dev channel. I don't know the ins and outs of Debian
[18:14:53] <cpresser> CaptHindsight: whats the channels name?
[18:15:11] <CaptHindsight> #linuxcnc-devel
[18:19:54] <andypugh> Would it be considered wrong-headed to MDI a complete program line-by line from Python code?
[18:30:00] <Tom_itx> andypugh how many hundreds of lines of code is it?
[18:30:43] <andypugh> Not many, just a loop of feeds at a sequence of depths
[18:31:15] <Tom_itx> we'd generally MDI lathe parts since they were so simple
[18:31:18] <Tom_itx> then save em
[18:41:11] <andypugh> I make most thing on lathes with my fixed cycles. As there is a tab for eacy type of op, quite often I only need to switch tabs and press “go” again to make complete parts.
[18:42:18] <andypugh> I need to type 8 numbers and press “run” 4 times to make a CAT30 stub arbour, as an example (3 ODs and a taper)
[18:43:32] <andypugh> Things have to be pretty complicated for me to bother with G-code, even for batches of a dozen. An example here (I made 15) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nIYMfyf4jDI&list=UUexvgsGz_QFvOublovDYoTQ
[21:34:30] <ssi> quiet tonight
[21:36:27] <zeeshan|2> yes
[21:36:28] <zeeshan|2> :D
[21:42:06] <XXCoder> no
[21:43:30] <Connor> Andy, What was that collet setup was that to hold the sprocket ?
[21:44:04] <ssi> Connor: he's gone :(
[21:44:08] <Connor> Doh.
[21:44:14] <ssi> I'd be curious to know what it was he was using that has the fancypants conversational screens
[21:44:22] <ssi> ngcgui didn't look that pretty last time I used it
[21:45:54] <Connor> Looks like some macro's or something.. Maybe something developed for Tormach's LCNC version ?
[21:49:47] <Connor> What is a removable gab bed ? per the G4003 Lathe
[21:50:23] <jdh> a chunk near teh chuck can be removed for bigger swingover
[21:50:52] <PetefromTn_andro> It's a small removable piece of the bed that unbolts allowing a larger diameter piece to be turned
[21:51:02] <Connor> PetefromTn_andro: Did yours have it ?
[21:51:09] <PetefromTn_andro> Yeah
[21:51:16] <zeeshan|2> allows for bigger parts :D
[21:51:22] <Connor> Yup. Interesting.
[21:51:35] <ssi> Connor: it looks like the tormach stuff
[21:51:38] <zeeshan|2> problem is rigidity becomes a bit of an issue
[21:51:39] <ssi> I'd love to know how to get my hands on that
[21:51:43] <zeeshan|2> cause of the carriage over hang
[21:51:52] <Connor> ssi: Probably HELPED make it.
[21:51:52] <zeeshan|2> ssi
[21:51:56] <zeeshan|2> are you talking about the interface?
[21:52:01] <zeeshan|2> andypugh wrote that
[21:52:09] <zeeshan|2> i was poking fun at him
[21:52:13] <zeeshan|2> cause he took those pictures from inventor
[21:52:14] <zeeshan|2> :-)
[21:52:55] <ssi> lol
[21:53:04] <ssi> so I guess it's not generally available
[21:53:16] <zeeshan|2> he has a link to it on the linuxcnc forums
[21:53:19] <ssi> really?
[21:53:22] <ssi> I'd love to play with it
[21:53:30] <ssi> also I would like to play with inventor fusion
[21:53:40] <ssi> was watching one of his videos about it
[21:53:45] <ssi> and it looks pretty solidworxy
[21:54:06] <zeeshan|2> hes a pretty hardcore inventor user
[21:55:09] <ssi> fusion 360 is supposed to be cad/cam
[21:55:11] <ssi> is the cam worth a crap?
[21:56:24] <zeeshan|2> havent used it
[21:56:37] <zeeshan|2> eek
[21:56:42] <zeeshan|2> looks like autodesk alias
[21:56:44] <zeeshan|2> hard as hell to use
[21:56:49] <zeeshan|2> (alias that is)
[21:59:09] <ssi> well it's worth a shot
[21:59:15] <ssi> I need a good native cad/cam solution
[21:59:28] <ssi> and fusion360 is actually sanely priced, even as a subscription product
[21:59:35] <ssi> I'd happily pay $300/yr to have cad/cam native on the mac
[22:00:03] <zeeshan|2> so many options :)
[22:00:28] <ssi> so many options?
[22:00:29] <ssi> like what
[22:00:44] <zeeshan|2> legal copy
[22:00:47] <zeeshan|2> what you want to do
[22:01:00] <zeeshan|2> you can literally do pretty much everything in any cad/cam package these days
[22:01:07] <zeeshan|2> its when you get into the fancy machining stuff
[22:01:12] <zeeshan|2> some others shine
[22:01:23] <zeeshan|2> like solidworks and inventor are both a joke when working with 1000+ parts
[22:01:32] <zeeshan|2> nx and catia handle them easily
[22:01:35] <ssi> big assemblies you mean
[22:01:38] <zeeshan|2> yes
[22:01:44] <ssi> yeah I'd LOVE to get my hands on NX for osx
[22:01:51] <ssi> tehy're the only big cam to do osx before fusion did
[22:02:09] <zeeshan|2> i honestly started with nx cam
[22:02:11] <zeeshan|2> and i moved to masteram
[22:02:15] <zeeshan|2> nx cam isn't as intuitive
[22:02:37] <ssi> mastercam would be nice but I haven't been able to climb that mountain thus far
[22:02:46] <zeeshan|2> well honestly
[22:02:53] <ssi> and I'm willing to put up with something that's not the best out there if I can run it natively
[22:02:54] <zeeshan|2> it just takes a couple tutorials to get used to it
[22:02:59] <zeeshan|2> or i can show you step by step
[22:03:04] <zeeshan|2> once you do one or two parts
[22:03:07] <ssi> oh I'm not talking about learning it
[22:03:09] <zeeshan|2> i bet you can do majority of the jobs
[22:03:11] <ssi> I'm talking about installing it
[22:03:20] <zeeshan|2> ohh i see
[22:03:26] <zeeshan|2> yea i dont think mastercam exists for osx
[22:03:30] <ssi> no, it doesn't
[22:03:38] <ssi> and their anticrack stuff is pretty good
[22:03:42] <zeeshan|2> why do you hate windows so much
[22:03:48] <ssi> because it blows SOOOO MUCH
[22:03:53] <zeeshan|2> just have a computer
[22:03:56] <zeeshan|2> that's for cad/cam
[22:04:03] <ssi> heh I don't even have a house
[22:04:04] <Tom_itx> there are good packages for windows though
[22:04:08] <ssi> what makes you think I can have multiple computers :)
[22:04:22] <zeeshan|2> or dual boot
[22:04:26] <zeeshan|2> have 2 hds
[22:04:36] <Tom_itx> you should have at least 5
[22:04:36] <ssi> nothx
[22:04:39] <ssi> huge pain in the ass
[22:04:53] <ssi> plus it doesn't solve the problem
[22:04:58] <ssi> with the driver signing crap in windows
[22:05:02] <ssi> this stuff all got a lot harder
[22:05:07] <zeeshan|2> lol
[22:05:08] <ssi> and I'd rather just pay for something I can run
[22:05:11] <ssi> if it works worth a shit
[22:05:16] * zeeshan|2 hides
[22:05:21] <zeeshan|2> i dont know anything about illegal copies!
[22:05:27] <zeeshan|2> at least in the public channel :)
[22:05:27] <Tom_itx> do you need full 3d?
[22:05:31] <ssi> well I know you're not suggesting I buy mastercam
[22:05:35] <ssi> Tom_itx: yeah eventually
[22:05:44] <ssi> and 4th axis ideally
[22:06:02] <zeeshan|2> for me the most important think
[22:06:03] <Tom_itx> the price goes up for that
[22:06:06] <zeeshan|2> is the link between cam and cad.
[22:06:14] <zeeshan|2> so if i change a hole size in my cad model
[22:06:18] <zeeshan|2> my program should automatically update
[22:06:31] <zeeshan|2> i hate doing shit twice
[22:06:37] <ssi> yes, I agree
[22:06:40] <Tom_itx> do it right the first time
[22:06:45] <ssi> lol
[22:06:49] <zeeshan|2> Tom_itx: unfortunately design doesnt work like that
[22:06:50] <zeeshan|2> :)
[22:07:11] <Tom_itx> so don't post it until it's right
[22:07:24] <Tom_itx> design the model then put the tool paths to it
[22:07:26] <zeeshan|2> you dont get me
[22:07:36] <zeeshan|2> sometimes i have parametric models like AN fittings
[22:07:39] <Tom_itx> yes i do
[22:07:40] <zeeshan|2> -8 -10 -16 etc
[22:07:49] <zeeshan|2> i dont want to have to recam the program
[22:07:55] <zeeshan|2> just because i need a scaled up model
[22:08:05] <zeeshan|2> right now it spits out code for me
[22:08:17] <ssi> ins adjuster told me to go buy a computer
[22:08:22] <ssi> so today I bought a 5k imac
[22:08:23] <ssi> wooo
[22:08:26] <zeeshan|2> haha
[22:08:28] <ssi> my god, it's full of pixels
[22:08:52] <XXCoder> lol
[22:08:56] <XXCoder> gonna love 2001 rwf
[22:08:58] <XXCoder> referemce
[22:09:55] <ssi> :)
[22:11:34] <XXCoder> I dont think 2061 and 3001 movies will ever be made
[22:12:44] <XXCoder> so far only 2 out of 4 books was made into movie
[22:13:14] <zeeshan|2> ssi are you an apple fan
[22:13:15] <zeeshan|2> :-)
[22:14:48] <ssi> I'm a unix fan, and I'm a fan of well-built hardware
[22:14:51] <ssi> so, based on that, yes
[22:14:58] <zeeshan|2> im suprised you down piece your own components
[22:15:00] <zeeshan|2> and built a computer
[22:15:02] <zeeshan|2> and just run linux
[22:15:06] <zeeshan|2> *build
[22:15:09] <ssi> linux is bullshit for desktops
[22:15:12] <ssi> I did it for years
[22:15:16] <jdh> it is afterall, the year of linux on the desktop
[22:15:17] <ssi> but I'm not that broke anymore
[22:15:24] <ssi> and I don't have that kind of time to screw with it
[22:15:34] <zeeshan|2> well usually you can build a better computer
[22:15:45] <ssi> not necessarily
[22:15:57] <ssi> I couldn't build a better computer than what I just bought for less than almost twice as much
[22:16:02] <zeeshan|2> like does your imac come with triple sli? :p
[22:16:09] <jdh> ran across a youtube video of a guys cnc'ed 9x20 with the x screw on the tailstock side.
[22:16:11] <ssi> don't need triple sli
[22:16:12] * zeeshan|2 doesnt know about imacs
[22:16:31] <ssi> do you know how much a 27" 5120x2880 monitor costs?
[22:16:31] <t12> building computers is fun
[22:16:34] <t12> if your time is worth nothing
[22:16:46] <jdh> it's a good for kids
[22:16:57] <ssi> answer: more than I paid for this whole computer, and you can't buy it til december
[22:17:08] <zeeshan|2> shrug
[22:17:11] <zeeshan|2> to me speed is more important
[22:17:25] <zeeshan|2> im running dual quadro k5000 sli
[22:17:31] <ssi> for what
[22:17:33] <ssi> gaming?
[22:17:33] <jdh> heh
[22:17:34] <zeeshan|2> i did not see that kind of setup on an off the shell computer
[22:17:37] <zeeshan|2> no
[22:17:39] <zeeshan|2> cad
[22:17:50] <ssi> ...k
[22:17:52] <zeeshan|2> and ansys
[22:18:00] <zeeshan|2> ??
[22:18:04] <ssi> I think I'll get by without triple sli
[22:18:11] <zeeshan|2> im just saying
[22:18:14] <ssi> and I'm very happy not listening to the fans of three big video cards
[22:18:35] <ssi> I did plenty of that when I was doing bitcoin mining
[22:18:44] <ssi> happy to have that noise out of my life
[22:19:08] <zeeshan|2> depends what you use the computer for at the end of the day
[22:19:31] <ssi> yeah and I'm sure that you'll tell me that your computer usage is more correct or more important or more something or other
[22:19:38] <ssi> and that I'm stupid for using what I use
[22:19:40] <ssi> and that's fine
[22:19:44] <zeeshan|2> wut
[22:19:44] <ssi> just be aware I don't criticize your choices :)
[22:19:58] <zeeshan|2> all i said was
[22:20:02] <zeeshan|2> im suprised you dont piece or youw o components
[22:20:07] <zeeshan|2> considering you're a smart electronics guy
[22:20:13] <ssi> I did that when I was a teenager
[22:20:13] <zeeshan|2> and youre always building your own hardware
[22:20:20] <ssi> not a teenager anymore
[22:20:29] <zeeshan|2> so touchy :)
[22:20:31] <ssi> it's not interesting to me to build a crappier machine
[22:20:37] <Computer_Barf> can someone help a noob understand servomotors?
[22:20:42] <zeeshan|2> thats where i disagree with you
[22:20:42] <ssi> Computer_Barf: what do you want to know
[22:20:49] <zeeshan|2> crapier depends on what you're trying to do with it
[22:20:55] <ssi> zeeshan|2: we just have very different metrics about what makes a nice computer
[22:21:14] <Computer_Barf> well I am thinking about getting some AC servomotors for a cnc multimachine lathe/milling
[22:21:28] <Computer_Barf> and ive been looking at baldor's flexdrive 2
[22:21:37] <Computer_Barf> as the driver for the ac steppers
[22:21:46] <jdh> on a non-servo-related note, combo machines are not so hot
[22:21:59] <ssi> agreed
[22:22:03] <Computer_Barf> well, thats kind of the point of my project
[22:22:27] <Computer_Barf> http://cncmultimachine.blogspot.com/2014/10/blog-post.html
[22:23:01] <Computer_Barf> the flexdrive , it has encoder inputs for the motor on it
[22:23:30] <ssi> zeeshan|2: in other news, I signed up for the fusion360 trial awhile back and never actually used it
[22:23:33] <ssi> and burned up the trial period
[22:23:39] <Computer_Barf> but since the spindel on the lathe will be driven by a pully, i would assume i would also need an encoder on the controller
[22:23:40] <ssi> I'm pretty unlikely to buy it if I can't actually try it :P
[22:23:53] <zeeshan|2> hehe
[22:24:26] <Computer_Barf> so what im asking is that a normal think, for the driver to watch the encoder on the servomotor, and the controller to watch the encoder on the spindel?
[22:24:28] <ssi> Computer_Barf: not necessarily
[22:24:36] <zeeshan|2> man
[22:24:44] <zeeshan|2> ssi did i tell you i emailed amc?
[22:24:48] <zeeshan|2> was my drives should be arriving next week
[22:24:53] <zeeshan|2> and i cant figure out wtf power cable it uses
[22:24:55] <ssi> Computer_Barf: the encoder on the motor is sufficient, except that you'll have index pulses that don't matchu p 1:1 to your spindle
[22:25:00] <ssi> so you might need a mask or something
[22:25:01] <zeeshan|2> says 2256 w continuous power inthe manual
[22:25:07] <zeeshan|2> which is like 18A @ 120VAC
[22:25:13] <zeeshan|2> yet the connector theyre using is 10A
[22:25:14] <zeeshan|2> lol
[22:25:28] <ssi> heh
[22:25:39] <zeeshan|2> im curious to see what they'll say
[22:25:42] <zeeshan|2> cause it makes no sense to me
[22:26:37] <ssi> Computer_Barf: if your spindle drive is 1:1 ratio, then it doesn't matter at all... if the motor turns faster than the spindle, you can mask it. If the spindle turns faster than the motor, some stuff may work as is, some other stuff may not, not really sure
[22:26:48] <Computer_Barf> ssi: well since they don't match up, is it possible for linuxcnc to watch an encoder on the spindel? I definantly want to index the location of my headstock and although i guess you could work out the ratio , it seemed like it might drift
[22:27:06] <ssi> is it a V-belt driving it?
[22:27:07] <zeeshan|2> http://www.nvidia.ca/content/tesla/pdf/aa-v7-i3-accelerating-mechanical-solutions-with-gpus.pdf
[22:27:14] <zeeshan|2> ssi this is the article i saw a while back
[22:27:26] <zeeshan|2> it really helps so much when you're doing fluid simulation
[22:27:28] <zeeshan|2> which is a resource hog
[22:27:30] <Computer_Barf> ssi: the belt and ratios don't currently exist, this is planning.
[22:27:53] <zeeshan|2> "factorization" is offloaded to the gpu
[22:27:56] <ssi> Computer_Barf: you absolutely CAN use one encoder on the motor for the drive and one on the spindle for the control
[22:28:03] <ssi> Computer_Barf: but you don't have to, and I feel like it's overly complex
[22:28:22] <ssi> Computer_Barf: if you use timing belt to drive the spindle, then there'll be no drift, and the motor encoder counts are reliable
[22:28:43] <ssi> zeeshan|2: honestly if I were interested in doing stuff like that, I'd offload that kind of work to external computing resources
[22:28:53] <ssi> zeeshan|2: I wouldn't compromise my desktop environment for it
[22:29:10] <ssi> I'm quite familiar with using gpus for computing resources, as well as fpgas and custom asics :)
[22:29:49] <zeeshan|2> yea yea
[22:29:53] <zeeshan|2> we all wish we had supercomputers
[22:29:53] <zeeshan|2> :-)
[22:30:01] <ssi> personally, gpu speed for cad hasn't been an issue for me because I'm already constrained by the fact that I'm running solidworks inside a vm and get crap gfx performance
[22:30:15] <ssi> if I can run cad natively I'll get so much better gfx performance than I'm used to that I'll feel like I have triple sli :P
[22:30:17] <zeeshan|2> that must run so slow!
[22:30:22] <ssi> yeah it's not great
[22:30:23] <Computer_Barf> ssi: I guess you are saying that the timing belt and sprocket is so accurate that there won't be significantly measurable drift?
[22:30:31] <ssi> Computer_Barf: correct
[22:30:46] <ssi> they don't slip, they don't have backlash
[22:30:56] <Tom_itx> minimal
[22:30:59] <ssi> right
[22:31:12] <ssi> "significant" backlash
[22:31:36] <Computer_Barf> yes i was guessing that the actual size of the sprocket would have some small variation that might become evident over so many turns
[22:31:41] <Computer_Barf> but i know fuck all
[22:31:53] <Computer_Barf> thats me guessing in the dark with no experience
[22:32:15] <ssi> Computer_Barf: even if it does have some variance, one turn is always one turn
[22:32:16] <Tom_itx> no not if you know the drive ratio
[22:32:43] <ssi> it's not like your spindle will turn 50001 turns for 100000 turns of the motor or something
[22:32:49] <Tom_itx> you could use gears but they're noisy
[22:32:52] <ssi> it's a set number of teeth
[22:33:01] <ssi> gears lash a lot more
[22:33:23] <Computer_Barf> humm ok so my spindel will need a specific timing belt and sprocket on it
[22:33:45] <Tom_itx> i'm switching to timing belts too btw
[22:34:10] <Computer_Barf> I've been planing on getting a spindel off ebay from an atlas lathe
[22:35:22] <Computer_Barf> http://www.ebay.com/itm/Atlas-12-Metal-Lathe-Spindle-Gear-F-365-/360605507123?pt=BI_Heavy_Equipment_Parts&hash=item53f5c35e33
[22:35:31] <Computer_Barf> will this work with a timing belt or is that just for gears
[22:36:13] <ssi> you need pulleys which have the proper tooth profile for the belt type you want to use
[22:36:21] <Computer_Barf> I guess the whole ratio thing would depend on what speed motor i get.
[22:36:27] <ssi> yep
[22:38:12] <Computer_Barf> this listing has ended but they come around fairly often http://www.ebay.com/itm/Craftsman-12-034-Atlas-10-034-Lathe-Headstock-Spindle-1-1-2-x-8-TPI-Timken-Bearings-/221577641063?ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT&_trksid=p2047675.l2557&nma=true&si=Im70Bnf5wowN7hpwsq1ndTLFgmY%253D&orig_cvip=true&rt=nc
[22:38:37] <Computer_Barf> the timing belt , is that usually on the back or in the middle?
[22:38:50] <ssi> depends on the machine
[22:38:59] <ssi> usually on the back in my experience
[22:39:24] <ssi> but like south bend lathes are driven with flat belts in between the bearings
[22:39:34] <ssi> so that's an option, just depends on the headstock casting of your machine
[22:42:33] <Connor> What size taper is that ?
[22:45:59] <Computer_Barf> not sure, would need to look up the part number
[22:46:33] <Computer_Barf> the headstock will be cast from concrete so i could do the middle or the back
[22:47:03] <Computer_Barf> probably the middle would be preferable, there is a keyslot
[23:00:25] <ssi> so far fusion360 doesn't seem too bad
[23:00:33] <ssi> it's different than sworx, and it'll take some getting used to
[23:01:15] <zeeshan|2> its always that first couple of weeks
[23:01:33] <zeeshan|2> eaton hired me even knowing i had limited inventor knowledge
[23:01:44] <zeeshan|2> i had used it to do very basic extruding
[23:01:53] <zeeshan|2> but i used nx and solidworks religiously
[23:02:00] <zeeshan|2> i picked up inventor in a week! :P
[23:02:08] <zeeshan|2> i really like software that's intuitive
[23:02:31] <zeeshan|2> week to get started, a couple months to pick up the tricks and a year to get to expert!
[23:05:24] <zeeshan|2> man i cant decide
[23:05:27] <zeeshan|2> to RELAX
[23:05:27] <zeeshan|2> or
[23:05:31] <zeeshan|2> go work on the hydraulic pump
[23:05:33] <zeeshan|2> hmmmmmm
[23:11:31] <Computer_Barf> is it a crazy idea to 3d print a timing belt pully to temporary use while cutting an aluminum one?
[23:13:54] <XXCoder> dont think so
[23:14:00] <XXCoder> its not like it will run for 10,000 hours
[23:14:15] <XXCoder> but then dunno how fast it would wear
[23:14:16] <Computer_Barf> yeah only temporary
[23:14:53] <Computer_Barf> http://cncmultimachine.blogspot.com/2014/10/blog-post.html
[23:15:34] <Computer_Barf> this is my cncmultimachine idea , cast concrete forms, with some self leveling epoxy, epoxy granite in the right places.
[23:15:37] <XXCoder> wish I own something that can make cnc router parts. but then if I had it I would probably not need cnc router. ironoc
[23:15:45] <ssi> zeeshan|2: i'm learning how to do renderings in fusion360
[23:15:48] <ssi> sure which I had triple sli
[23:15:53] <zeeshan|2> lol
[23:15:57] <XXCoder> cool.
[23:16:01] <zeeshan|2> that shit eats cpu and gpu
[23:16:28] <Computer_Barf> XXCoder: yes I delt with the chicken/egg problem alot while building a 3d printer.
[23:16:35] <ssi> it's currently using 4717% cpu
[23:16:35] <ssi> hahahah
[23:16:39] <zeeshan|2> haha
[23:16:45] <XXCoder> barf my major issue right now is lazyness
[23:16:49] <ssi> nah more like 380%
[23:16:57] <ssi> but for a second it was 4717%
[23:17:15] <zeeshan|2> gotta break in the computer :)
[23:17:25] <Computer_Barf> my chicken egg solution was often a drill press and a file, so lazyness would certainly have stopped that.
[23:17:53] <ssi> the rendering stuff is pretty cool actually
[23:18:02] <ssi> soon I'll get to the cam tutoriaol
[23:18:14] <ssi> based on the cad, if the cam is anything like usable I'll probably pay for a subscription to this i
[23:18:19] <ssi> it's really pretty decent
[23:18:25] <Computer_Barf> can someone recommend a good controller for my project?
[23:18:34] <zeeshan|2> nice dude
[23:18:35] <zeeshan|2> :D
[23:19:08] <ssi> oh god
[23:19:15] <ssi> "Next, try the LASER CUT tutorial"
[23:19:16] <Computer_Barf> I've noticed that back in 2006 there was some reason why linux cnc didn't play nice with servomotors, is this still the case?
[23:19:46] <zeeshan|2> Computer_Barf: linuxcnc is not good
[23:19:51] <zeeshan|2> we all dont use it
[23:20:04] <Computer_Barf> umm
[23:20:11] <Computer_Barf> isn't this the linuxcnc room
[23:20:23] <ssi> no, it's the sarcasm room
[23:20:25] <zeeshan|2> i tried to answer your question
[23:21:05] <zeeshan|2> does mach have real time position feedback loop?
[23:21:12] * zeeshan|2 waits for an answer
[23:21:16] <zeeshan|2> looks like the answer is NO!
[23:21:19] <zeeshan|2> linuxcnc ftw
[23:21:29] <XXCoder> heh I remember this guy
[23:21:32] <Computer_Barf> i dont think it does.
[23:21:40] <XXCoder> kept asking lathe stuff over and over
[23:21:44] <Computer_Barf> does linux cnc?
[23:21:49] <zeeshan|2> Computer_Barf: ofcourser
[23:21:51] <zeeshan|2> and it has more
[23:22:00] <XXCoder> it got so bad I made a macro to answer that with...
[23:22:01] <XXCoder> Pee on it.
[23:22:02] <zeeshan|2> is mach 3 open source?
[23:22:07] <zeeshan|2> the answer is no!
[23:22:13] <zeeshan|2> can i easily write drivers for mach 3?
[23:22:15] <zeeshan|2> HELL no!
[23:22:26] <Computer_Barf> wait do you guys think i am some big mach person?
[23:22:46] <zeeshan|2> no i got offended when you said linuxcnc has issues with servo loops
[23:22:50] <Computer_Barf> im not knowledgeable enough to play OS wars or something like it
[23:23:12] <Computer_Barf> no i just read it on some forum, and i noticed it was real old
[23:23:20] <Computer_Barf> i thought it might not be the case anymore
[23:23:29] <Computer_Barf> the flexdrive 2
[23:23:39] <pcw_home> AFAIK LinuxCNC (EMC) supported servos before step motors
[23:23:39] <zeeshan|2> please understand theres a lot of people in this room (i'm not one)
[23:23:49] <zeeshan|2> who spend hours in a day developing linuxcnc.
[23:23:53] <zeeshan|2> and when you ask a silly question like that
[23:23:56] <zeeshan|2> it's offensive
[23:24:00] <Computer_Barf> that i am looking at , it apparently does the feedback encoder stuff right in the driver and I would just be doing step/dir stuff with the controller and maybe running a second encoder with the controller
[23:24:15] <Computer_Barf> im just trying to figure out if what I am thinking of is possible
[23:24:58] <Computer_Barf> zeshan|2 well please then just realize I don't know im being offensive
[23:26:04] <Computer_Barf> im not here trolling im just trying to figure out how I can meet my objectives. I personally want to use an open source option if I can
[23:26:06] <zeeshan|2> Computer_Barf: basically if you can dream it
[23:26:08] <zeeshan|2> linuxcnc can do it
[23:26:17] <zeeshan|2> and if it cant, you can always modify it to do what you want
[23:26:21] <ssi> step/dir servo drives are for mach people
[23:26:28] <zeeshan|2> it did not have a modbus driver for my vfd
[23:26:30] <zeeshan|2> so i wrote one
[23:26:44] <zeeshan|2> i'm sure the real programmers would laugh at my silly code
[23:26:46] <zeeshan|2> but it works :P
[23:27:11] <Computer_Barf> ssi: the flexdrive has some other options but i wasn't able to find info on them for linux cnc
[23:27:30] <pcw_home> When EMC first existed at NIST it supported servos so servos are in its DNA from way back
[23:27:34] <ssi> they'll work fine with linuxcnc because they have a +/-10V analog control moed
[23:27:40] <ssi> mode
[23:27:52] <zeeshan|2> is 0 V off
[23:27:53] <zeeshan|2> iin that mode
[23:27:59] <ssi> 0V is no command
[23:28:04] <zeeshan|2> ah
[23:28:25] <zeeshan|2> i need to sit down and read the amc usermanual
[23:28:32] <zeeshan|2> and start planning
[23:28:34] <ssi> they have another document
[23:28:39] <Computer_Barf> http://www.ebay.com/itm/121453221626?_trksid=p2055119.m1438.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT
[23:28:41] <ssi> which is all about how servo systems work and stuff
[23:28:45] <ssi> it was open on my other computer
[23:28:47] <zeeshan|2> ah
[23:28:48] <Computer_Barf> like , how would you guys control this?
[23:28:51] <ssi> but I can't really get at it right now
[23:29:12] <zeeshan|2> yes
[23:29:23] <zeeshan|2> honestly this is going to be a good experience
[23:29:34] <Computer_Barf> the specs are here: http://www.baldor.com/products/motioncontrol/flexdrive.asp
[23:29:35] <zeeshan|2> theres been so many times i wanted to do precise control for something
[23:29:41] <zeeshan|2> but didnt know how to do it
[23:29:48] <zeeshan|2> using a motor (exception of stepper)
[23:32:52] <Computer_Barf> like they talk about fieldbus options like devisenet , profibus-dp, CANopen, which appear to be some sort serial interface, don't know if linux cnc can talk to that or not. They appear to have written some entire language for it.
[23:33:21] <zeeshan|2> canbus i think theres drivers
[23:33:36] <zeeshan|2> i think ssi will know the answer better than me
[23:33:43] <zeeshan|2> but i dont think serial is meant for high speed communication
[23:33:55] <Computer_Barf> OI
[23:33:56] <zeeshan|2> i suspect those protocols are so you can setup the drive parameters from a computer
[23:33:58] <Computer_Barf> woops
[23:34:15] <zeeshan|2> like for example
[23:34:25] <zeeshan|2> you send a hexadecimal string which ends with
[23:34:29] <zeeshan|2> "058F" or something
[23:34:35] <zeeshan|2> which might setup 1 parameter
[23:34:50] <Computer_Barf> I will probably just do step/dir for the time being , it just would be cool if I could dig into some of those features later
[23:35:04] <zeeshan|2> why would you do step and dir?
[23:35:14] <zeeshan|2> when a real servo and servo drive?
[23:35:18] <zeeshan|2> *with
[23:35:34] <Computer_Barf> because i dont know better and that is the first thing i recognize and sort of understand lol
[23:35:43] <zeeshan|2> fair enough
[23:36:27] <Computer_Barf> do you see something else on that link that would be perferable?
[23:37:43] <zeeshan|2> looks like a good drive.
[23:37:53] <Computer_Barf> yayyy
[23:38:02] <zeeshan|2> it looks complex though
[23:38:08] <Computer_Barf> booo
[23:38:10] <zeeshan|2> might be a pain in the butt to setup if youre new
[23:38:10] <Computer_Barf> lol
[23:38:35] <Computer_Barf> well i do want something to grow into and im fine with a bit of a challenge.
[23:39:05] <Computer_Barf> im just wondering what other method you might be referring to to control it
[23:39:11] <zeeshan|2> notice how it says
[23:39:15] <zeeshan|2> "analog and step&dir"
[23:39:21] <zeeshan|2> analog is a better way to control it
[23:39:57] <zeeshan|2> because you'll have a velocity loop between the servo motor and servo drive which basically means that when something tells the servo drive to move at 5 rev/s for example
[23:40:06] <Computer_Barf> the step dir i believe are digital pins, where might I find these analog pins?
[23:40:11] <zeeshan|2> it'll really move at 5.00 rev/s +/- a little error
[23:40:37] <zeeshan|2> analog is important because you'll have encoders or something on your stepper
[23:40:51] <zeeshan|2> that you can send the signal to linuxcnc
[23:41:01] <zeeshan|2> from there you can use that signal to setup position feedback
[23:41:14] <zeeshan|2> linuxcnc outputs "analog"
[23:41:39] <Computer_Barf> ahh i thought that the position feedback stuff was all handled by the driver
[23:41:50] <zeeshan|2> from the looks of it
[23:42:00] <zeeshan|2> that baldor drive i think handles the position feedback too
[23:42:02] <zeeshan|2> so youre right
[23:42:10] <zeeshan|2> i dont know
[23:42:14] <zeeshan|2> im just starting off with servos
[23:42:14] <zeeshan|2> :P
[23:42:29] <Computer_Barf> well either way is probably ok with me
[23:43:07] <Computer_Barf> If I can't figure out the timing belt thing I might need to put a second encoder on the spindle shaft
[23:43:18] <Computer_Barf> but it sounds like linuxcnc can also do that.
[23:43:46] <Computer_Barf> I've gravitated twords those baldor drives because there are so many cheap baldor servomotors out there on the market
[23:44:35] <Computer_Barf> I basically want a big servomotor with suitable torque and rpms for the spindel
[23:49:03] <Computer_Barf> someone mentioned they were going to have to do the timing belt route earlier, still around?
[23:54:23] <Computer_Barf> http://www.baldor.com/products/servomotors/n_series/bsm_nseries_spec.asp?CatalogNumber=BSM63N-150AA
[23:54:58] <Computer_Barf> would this motor be sufficient for a cnc lathe? Im no good with understanding Lb-in or N-m
[23:56:58] <zeeshan|2> you cant pick a motor without understanding torque
[23:57:03] <zeeshan|2> and speed
[23:59:36] <toastyde1th> running the numbers on the datasheet that's a pretty tiny motor
[23:59:40] <toastyde1th> for spindle power