#linuxcnc | Logs for 2014-10-21

[02:01:00] <Deejay> moin
[03:20:12] <Cylly> *harhar* $me just got a call from an ex neighbor... "hi loet, i have problems with my Computer, can you come by fix it?" ($me after digging my brain to connect the voice to a name) "sorry, inge, i left [your city] in 2003, i live 260km away now..." people sometimes... :-)
[04:18:29] <ReadError> http://sploid.gizmodo.com/these-metal-machining-super-slow-motion-videos-are-so-d-1648336605?utm_campaign=socialflow_gizmodo_facebook&utm_source=gizmodo_facebook&utm_medium=socialflow
[04:18:33] <ReadError> pretty sweet
[04:44:43] <archivist> ReadError, you should see the slowmo of built up edge not included in that set
[04:46:42] <archivist> google built up edge youtube
[05:02:00] <ReadError> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uwh3ouvzSLk ?
[05:04:17] <archivist> that is one of them showing it, gives a terrible finish to your work
[08:45:47] <_methods> get ready for a flood of the mentally challenged
[08:46:01] <archivist> oh dear
[08:46:06] <_methods> http://makezine.com/2014/10/21/first-look-inventables-carvey/
[08:46:29] <_methods> it's cnc made simple
[08:47:35] <archivist> cardboard carving for idiots
[08:47:48] <_methods> https://pbs.twimg.com/profile_images/1695889681/20080802_stiller.jpg
[09:01:02] <CaptHindsight> heh the article was written by someone from the Chicago Hackerspace
[09:06:12] <zeeshan> ssi
[09:06:15] <zeeshan> wtf happened mate
[09:06:26] <zeeshan> yesterday night i was like hooking up the vfd
[09:06:35] <zeeshan> and im like im gonna lay down for a bit, i and i passed the F out
[09:09:03] <CaptHindsight> https://wiki.pumpingstationone.org/Bridgeport_Knee_Mill I wonder what it takes to become authorized to use it?
[09:09:35] <zeeshan> :)
[09:09:39] <CaptHindsight> Contact Danger Committee, Area Host
[09:09:54] <zeeshan> cute lil brideport
[09:10:56] <CaptHindsight> https://wiki.pumpingstationone.org/Tier_1_Cold_Metals_Authorization WTF?
[09:11:38] <zeeshan> CaptHindsight:
[09:11:41] <zeeshan> its shit like this
[09:11:48] <zeeshan> which made me want to get my own machines long time ago
[09:11:58] <zeeshan> when i started fabricating parts in 2003
[09:12:07] <zeeshan> i realized how much machine shops rape you for a simple job
[09:12:14] <zeeshan> cause of the overhead they're dealing with
[09:12:23] <zeeshan> but some shops will quote you like 350 for a job
[09:12:27] <zeeshan> and then another will quote you 800
[09:12:32] <zeeshan> to put o-ring grooves in 4 flanges
[09:12:33] <zeeshan> lol
[09:12:56] <_methods> it depeds on what equipment they have and how busy they are
[09:13:07] <_methods> if you're flooded you quote it like you don't want it
[09:13:11] <zeeshan> and then @ school you have to follow their protocols
[09:13:20] <_methods> hence your $800 quote
[09:13:22] <_methods> or they don't like you
[09:13:30] <_methods> and see a pain in the ass
[09:13:30] <archivist> remember they have to pay the wages while they wait for the next job
[09:13:38] <zeeshan> and wait to book it out
[09:14:04] <_methods> we quote super high all the time instead of telling someone to fuck off
[09:14:12] <_methods> better than being a dick
[09:14:14] * archivist has been waiting for over a week
[09:14:14] <zeeshan> methods you assume too much
[09:14:22] <_methods> no it's what i do
[09:14:25] <_methods> i assume nothing
[09:14:32] <zeeshan> you assume to omuch about the task at hand
[09:14:46] <zeeshan> didn't say its not what you do
[09:15:24] <zeeshan> i have to dig through the pics
[09:15:27] <zeeshan> to find the flanges im talking about
[09:16:15] <_methods> you can take the same part to 20 diff shops and get 20 diff prices
[09:16:40] <zeeshan> http://i.imgur.com/e7KvSkQ.jpg
[09:16:45] <zeeshan> i can only find this pic
[09:16:45] <_methods> there are so many variables that go into a quote you'll never get the same price except through chance
[09:16:49] <zeeshan> remember this is back in 2003
[09:17:06] <zeeshan> the flanges were laser cut
[09:17:13] <zeeshan> i needed that o-ring groove in them
[09:18:06] <zeeshan> i ended up buying a lathe
[09:18:16] <zeeshan> holding them in a 4 jaw and plunging in
[09:18:42] <zeeshan> took 2 hours to do em (had 0 lathe experience at the time)
[09:19:13] <CaptHindsight> zeeshan: but you weren't certified!
[09:19:15] <zeeshan> do you think the job was unreasonable?
[09:19:23] <zeeshan> and do you think i was overquoted?
[09:19:37] <zeeshan> because i know i was now that i am more connected with machinists in the industry
[09:20:07] <_methods> walk ins get fucked
[09:20:10] <_methods> that's how it is
[09:20:34] <_methods> you know how many times a day i hear ohhh i have way more work after this
[09:20:38] <_methods> and you never see them again
[09:22:00] <zeeshan> yea i guess that is a problem
[09:22:14] <CaptHindsight> _methods: do they ever ask to borrow your shop?
[09:22:18] <_methods> yeah
[09:22:19] <zeeshan> and then there is people that want too much
[09:22:21] <zeeshan> for too little
[09:22:24] <_methods> and we tell them they can't insurance
[09:22:25] <zeeshan> i see it myself now
[09:22:33] <zeeshan> i can't imagine having to deal with people like that all the time
[09:22:38] <_methods> it sux
[09:22:45] <zeeshan> i ended up making 250 of these parts!@
[09:22:46] <_methods> and people that "know" what they are doing are the worst
[09:23:07] <zeeshan> _methods i call BS!!
[09:23:12] <zeeshan> theres 230981230923180930289 ways of doing something :)
[09:23:40] <zeeshan> this one guy i was doing the dies for a little while ago
[09:23:41] <zeeshan> for bending
[09:23:43] <_methods> honestly the ones i hate the most are the fuckin "artists"
[09:23:45] <zeeshan> he wanted everything specifically his way
[09:23:57] <_methods> artists/invenotrs
[09:24:18] <_methods> i just tell them we don't have the machines they need when the come in now
[09:24:44] <_methods> oh you need a 5 axis cat50 for that and we don't have one of those
[09:24:46] <_methods> good luck
[09:25:12] <zeeshan> haha
[09:25:31] <_methods> my favorite poeple to work for are old school maintenance guys
[09:25:38] <zeeshan> how much would you have quoted me for that job
[09:25:39] <zeeshan> 4 flanges
[09:25:42] <CaptHindsight> _methods: where is the shop? +/- 300 miles
[09:25:42] <zeeshan> o-ring grooves
[09:25:50] <_methods> charleston sc
[09:25:51] <zeeshan> btw material is 304 stainless
[09:26:01] <_methods> i dind't even look at them
[09:26:04] <zeeshan> :(
[09:26:09] <_methods> like i said it depends on the shop
[09:26:12] <_methods> and what's goin on
[09:26:20] <_methods> if we're dead we'll do anything
[09:26:29] <_methods> if we're busy we'll quote it sky high
[09:26:47] <_methods> it's very situationally dependent
[09:26:53] <_methods> how fast do you want it
[09:26:53] <zeeshan> theres one local place that does all my waterjet/laser/plasma cutting
[09:26:59] <zeeshan> it took me a year to find these guys
[09:27:03] <_methods> did you put silly tolerances on it
[09:27:07] <zeeshan> they're so cheap, i dont even know how they do it
[09:27:26] <_methods> well your jobs are probably fairly small so they can use drops and stuff
[09:27:37] <zeeshan> http://i.imgur.com/hRaDOeZ.jpg
[09:27:39] <_methods> i don't know what qty runs you're foing though
[09:27:41] <archivist> just mention some cash, that usually helps
[09:27:45] <zeeshan> thsoe 3 babies .125
[09:27:49] <zeeshan> 6061, $38
[09:27:50] <zeeshan> lol
[09:27:59] <_methods> water jet
[09:28:01] <zeeshan> yea
[09:28:07] <zeeshan> od of that is 3"
[09:28:11] <zeeshan> (to give size perspective)
[09:28:18] <_methods> yeah our shop min is $75
[09:28:39] <_methods> which is low
[09:28:40] <zeeshan> this place is $60
[09:28:46] <_methods> others in the area are $250 min
[09:28:49] <zeeshan> but they'll do it for established customers
[09:29:10] <zeeshan> for a long time i was thinking ill make a plasma cutter
[09:29:12] <zeeshan> but when its this cheap
[09:29:14] <zeeshan> there is no point
[09:29:23] <zeeshan> they deal with the material ordering, loading, cutting
[09:29:26] <zeeshan> i just pick it up
[09:29:28] <_methods> yep
[09:29:40] <zeeshan> and they get their material wholesale
[09:29:46] <_methods> like i said you're not a walk in to them anymmore
[09:29:51] <_methods> so you'll get fair prices
[09:29:57] <_methods> but some random dude comes in the door
[09:30:03] <_methods> i'm not gonna do that for them for $38
[09:30:08] <_methods> $75 min
[09:30:10] <zeeshan> id charge $100
[09:30:11] <zeeshan> for that
[09:30:11] <zeeshan> lol
[09:30:16] <_methods> and i'm assuming you give them the dxf
[09:30:19] <zeeshan> yea
[09:30:22] <_methods> so that's even better
[09:30:25] <_methods> now i don't have to draw it
[09:30:32] <_methods> we just give it to the jet and burn it out
[09:30:34] <zeeshan> their drawing charges are 100/hr
[09:30:40] <_methods> yeah
[09:30:52] <_methods> i love people that come in with good drawings
[09:30:57] <_methods> if it's wrong its all on you lol
[09:31:01] <zeeshan> haha
[09:31:43] <zeeshan> part of the reason i got in the hobby is cause i love it
[09:31:51] <zeeshan> theres something about welding and making chips
[09:31:54] <zeeshan> that makes it worthwile..
[09:32:03] <zeeshan> seeing a drawing go from paper to product
[09:32:10] <_methods> that's what it's all about
[09:32:19] <_methods> you think it and it becomes
[09:32:28] <zeeshan> and it's also made me appreciate when i work at day job designing stuff
[09:32:32] <zeeshan> how much effort goes into making something
[09:32:33] <zeeshan> and skill
[09:32:49] <zeeshan> and i am 100% friendly with all the floor workers and respect them
[09:33:03] <_methods> well they can make your life easy or they can make it miserable
[09:33:09] <zeeshan> and it makes me cringe when other engineers treat them like shit
[09:33:11] <_methods> they'll let you burn
[09:33:25] <zeeshan> yep
[09:33:31] <zeeshan> all it takes is one smart ass putting one person down
[09:33:35] <zeeshan> and that person won't be productive anymore
[09:33:35] <_methods> if they like you they'll help you fix shit before it turns into an "event"
[09:33:42] <zeeshan> will never got out of his/her way to fix something
[09:33:58] <_methods> otherwise they'll just toss your ass under the bus
[09:34:02] <zeeshan> yea
[09:34:20] <zeeshan> at the end of the day people need to remember they're human beings
[09:34:22] <zeeshan> with kids and a family
[09:34:35] <zeeshan> have decency
[09:34:48] <zeeshan> you know what one of the engineers ended up saying in a meeting?
[09:34:54] <zeeshan> right in front of the production crew?
[09:34:56] <_methods> well it's a 2 sided story
[09:35:04] <zeeshan> "we all know those other guys don't know what they're doing"
[09:35:05] <zeeshan> ..
[09:35:06] <_methods> they do the same shit
[09:35:31] <zeeshan> youre right, sometimes production people will complain
[09:35:34] <zeeshan> about really silly things
[09:35:51] <zeeshan> you're not going to redesign something because for a one off job he has to spend 15 more minutes tightening a bolt
[09:36:02] <_methods> exactly
[09:36:02] <zeeshan> mistake is made, get er done, we'll fix it on the next job
[09:36:18] <_methods> like i said it's a story with 2 sides
[09:36:22] <_methods> i'm usually stuck in the middle
[09:36:27] <zeeshan> haha
[09:36:33] <zeeshan> moderator
[09:36:40] <_methods> yeah it sux
[09:36:48] <_methods> i got the floor people yelling at me
[09:36:51] <_methods> i got customers yellin at me
[09:36:57] <_methods> i got the owner yelling at me
[09:37:00] <_methods> it's lovely
[09:37:11] <zeeshan> wish there was a kick ban option in real life
[09:37:28] <_methods> haha you get used to it
[09:37:48] <_methods> you just learn to pick your fights more gently
[09:38:14] <_methods> or carefully lol
[09:39:04] <zeeshan> i miss working in industry
[09:39:18] <zeeshan> i can't wait to get out of the research world
[09:39:27] <zeeshan> everything is so slacked off here
[09:39:38] <zeeshan> industry, everyday is a new challenge
[09:39:55] <_methods> well that's one way to put it
[09:40:12] <CaptHindsight> _methods: so it sounds like what you are saying is that people should be civil and treat others with respect :)
[09:40:12] <zeeshan> at eaton i come in the morning
[09:40:20] <zeeshan> "why did you not release the drawings last night?!?!"
[09:40:31] <_methods> CaptHindsight: yeah that would be nice
[09:40:34] <zeeshan> so 7:30am you get your first adrenalin rush
[09:40:36] <zeeshan> haha
[09:40:36] <_methods> but i've not seen it happen yet
[09:42:24] <CaptHindsight> _methods: have you seen the behavior (socialization) that's encouraged by school and corporate agendas?
[09:42:37] <_methods> yeah not really in job shops
[09:42:45] <_methods> but i've seen it in corporations
[09:43:06] <CaptHindsight> it's no accident that people behave this way
[09:43:18] <_methods> you will get drug out back in my shop for that shit
[09:43:43] <zeeshan> CaptHindsight: we've been told numeruous times throughout undergrad
[09:43:49] <_methods> we still grind and weld and cut steel and act like people that conduct those activities
[09:43:53] <zeeshan> to talk to ALL "stakeholders"
[09:43:59] <zeeshan> stakeholders can be machinists, customer, city
[09:43:59] <zeeshan> etc
[09:44:07] <zeeshan> communication is #1 key
[09:44:23] <zeeshan> we were given the example of the GM engineers being told that their transmission didn't shift right
[09:44:29] <zeeshan> so they started redesigning the shifter mechanism
[09:44:34] <zeeshan> and the new trans had the same problem
[09:44:44] <zeeshan> eventually they started talking to the customers
[09:44:49] <zeeshan> and found out the problem was the shifter knob....
[09:45:35] <zeeshan> and we took some courses which put us kind of in the same position as methods
[09:45:45] <zeeshan> where you're a link betwen management and production
[09:45:49] <zeeshan> and also the customer
[09:46:17] <_methods> yeah since i do all the drawing and programming i get stuck in the middle
[09:47:28] <zeeshan> now i have no clue what the business undergrads get taught
[09:47:28] <zeeshan> haha
[09:47:43] <zeeshan> "engineers and production workers are your servants"
[09:47:49] <zeeshan> "command and you shall recieve"
[09:48:51] <_methods> well the way i see it is this
[09:49:09] <_methods> on wall street they wouldn't hire a mech engineer to run barclays
[09:49:18] <_methods> why would a company hire an mba to run them
[09:49:26] <_methods> a manufacturing company
[09:49:53] <_methods> engineers should run manufacturing companies
[09:50:03] <archivist> far too man MBAs ruining companies
[09:50:17] <archivist> and accountants
[09:50:25] <zeeshan> i mean do you really think a mba can identify
[09:50:28] <zeeshan> "waste" in a company
[09:50:42] <zeeshan> they're just relying on their intel
[09:50:58] <zeeshan> and making decisions on things they have no clue about
[09:51:17] <zeeshan> archivist: my gf is an accountant :-(
[09:52:24] <archivist> zeeshan, they start removing the less profitable lines, suddenly the company has no product range, goes out of business
[09:52:48] <zeeshan> lol
[09:53:13] <zeeshan> you never eliminate the bread and butter lines!
[09:53:22] <zeeshan> even they don't make you as much money =/
[09:53:28] <archivist> or reducing stock, so the local branch ALWAYS has to order in
[09:54:20] <archivist> I went to my local, no centre drills, we can get them next day,.....I walked out
[09:54:22] <gonzo_> when they ask managers to cut back waste, it's like asking turkeys to vote for xmas
[09:54:51] <zeeshan> lol
[09:55:25] <zeeshan> i need to run a power wire
[09:55:29] <zeeshan> to the other side of the garage
[09:55:32] <zeeshan> 2/4
[09:55:44] <zeeshan> i cant make a decision
[09:55:56] <zeeshan> conduit + romex
[09:56:00] <zeeshan> or armor cable
[09:56:09] <_methods> conduit
[09:56:30] <_methods> that way you can add to the run if you need to later
[09:56:31] <zeeshan> with conduit i might have to run a larger wire
[09:56:39] <zeeshan> cause ots enclosed
[09:56:40] <zeeshan> *its
[09:57:09] <zeeshan> ive never run a metal or plastic conduit before :/
[09:57:30] <gonzo_> isn't armored enclosed by definition?
[09:57:59] <_methods> it's hardly rocket science
[09:58:09] <_methods> get some conduit and pullwire through lol
[09:58:46] <gonzo_> and double the gauge and number oif wires you think you need. Future proof
[09:59:06] <_methods> ^^
[10:00:26] <Connor> zeeshan: Just do AC.. allot easier and faster.
[10:01:02] <Connor> conduit is more $$$, takes longer.. and is a b!tch to get the wires through..
[10:01:28] <Connor> unless, you get into much larger sizes..
[10:01:42] <archivist> trunking
[10:02:31] <Connor> Some of the larger stuff comes in that plastic looking water tight conduit stuff..
[10:32:48] <zeeshan> im running 2/3
[10:32:50] <zeeshan> i think AC it is
[10:32:56] <zeeshan> er 2/4
[10:34:33] <zeeshan> http://www.homedepot.com/p/Siemens-200-Amp-40-Space-40-Circuit-Indoor-Main-Breaker-Load-Center-P4040B1200CU/203027309
[10:34:36] <zeeshan> my main panel is that thing
[10:35:06] <zeeshan> i dont see whjat the MAX breaker capacity is
[10:35:09] <zeeshan> per space
[10:35:37] <zeeshan> and when they say use copper 60/75C wire
[10:35:44] <zeeshan> use that as a minimum right? :
[10:35:52] <zeeshan> you can use 90C wire which is better? :P
[10:36:07] * zeeshan has been running 90 c all this time with no ill effects
[10:40:51] <Connor> zeeshan: With that size of wire, you might want to use Flexible Non-Metallic Conduit, or wire that already comes as NMC
[10:41:22] <zeeshan> flexible metal conduit
[10:41:25] <zeeshan> l;ooks like armor :P
[10:41:37] <Connor> It is. But I'm not suer it comes that large.
[10:41:46] <zeeshan> 2 awg is the largest
[10:41:51] <zeeshan> that ive found in catalogs
[10:42:18] <zeeshan> man
[10:42:20] <zeeshan> i must be blind
[10:42:26] <zeeshan> i cant find the maxium branch breaker size
[10:42:28] <zeeshan> anywhere in this pdf
[10:52:20] <zeeshan> 125A
[11:00:05] <zeeshan> holy cow
[11:00:10] <zeeshan> 3/4 BX cable
[11:00:14] <zeeshan> $363.46
[11:00:18] <zeeshan> for 50 feet
[11:02:25] <CaptHindsight> service entrance armored cable, yeah pricey and rarely used anymore
[11:02:35] <zeeshan> got any other suggfestions?
[11:03:01] <_methods> that's why i like emt and pull my own
[11:03:09] <CaptHindsight> conduit
[11:03:15] <zeeshan> methods i was looking at my garage
[11:03:22] <zeeshan> and some of the bends are going to be really annoying w/ conduit
[11:03:39] <_methods> use junctio boxes
[11:03:42] <Tom_itx> yeah
[11:03:45] <Tom_itx> beat me to it
[11:03:49] <zeeshan> rpolly will end up costing the same :P
[11:04:02] <CaptHindsight> I'll loan you my bender :)
[11:04:06] <zeeshan> haha
[11:05:31] <CaptHindsight> 1 1/4 is easy to work with
[11:07:45] <dirty_d> is there a generic userspace hal driver?
[11:07:55] <CaptHindsight> Home Depot even sells cheater 90's
[11:08:07] <dirty_d> if say i hook up another microcontroller to a raspberry pi
[11:08:47] <CaptHindsight> dirty_d: are you sure you're asking in the right channel?
[11:09:23] <dirty_d> no
[11:09:33] <jdh> heh
[11:09:51] <jdh> where is HAL running in this context? on the rpi?
[11:09:52] <dirty_d> but there is no #linuxcnc-dev
[11:10:01] <dirty_d> jdh, its part of linuxcnc
[11:10:05] <CaptHindsight> linuxcnc-devel
[11:10:09] <archivist> dirty_d, are you trying to cut up an elephant to fit in a few minis
[11:10:13] <CaptHindsight> but what are you trying to do?
[11:10:39] <zeeshan> do you guys pass
[11:10:43] <zeeshan> single wires through the conduit?
[11:10:44] <dirty_d> use a raspberry pi as a machine controller
[11:10:50] <_methods> pull the bundle
[11:10:54] <ssi> zeeshan: I can't believe you still are trying to pull 2
[11:10:55] <_methods> not single wires
[11:10:58] <CaptHindsight> zeeshan: no, inductive heating
[11:10:59] <dirty_d> i have a rpi, and a bunch of microcontrollers I could hook up
[11:11:01] <zeeshan> ssi wut
[11:11:08] <zeeshan> pull 2!?!
[11:11:11] <ssi> 2awg
[11:11:16] <zeeshan> 3 awg
[11:11:19] <zeeshan> 100A
[11:11:21] <archivist> dirty_d, just use a PC and forget the pain
[11:11:31] <dirty_d> I dont have an extra
[11:11:35] <ssi> I just can't imagine in what universe you think your machine needs 24KVA
[11:11:36] <CaptHindsight> zeeshan: you pull them all at the same time
[11:11:43] <ssi> but never mind
[11:11:44] <zeeshan> ssi look at the charts
[11:11:45] <zeeshan> again
[11:11:58] <zeeshan> http://i.imgur.com/AtibDlQ.png
[11:12:05] <zeeshan> it works out to 3 awg
[11:12:06] <zeeshan> ..
[11:12:07] <archivist> a second hand PC v months of pain tring to get it running on a pi
[11:12:37] <CaptHindsight> zeeshan: I've have run that matsuura on a 30A 208VAC circuit
[11:12:38] <zeeshan> i think im just going to move the mill
[11:12:43] <zeeshan> closer to the main panel
[11:12:53] <zeeshan> so its a 6 foot run
[11:12:59] <zeeshan> vs the 50 foot run
[11:13:12] <ssi> sounds like a great idea
[11:13:25] <CaptHindsight> zeeshan: I only tripped the breaker once by bogging down the spindle with a large face mill with the depth set too deep
[11:13:28] <zeeshan> the lathe runs off 30A breaker
[11:13:35] <zeeshan> CaptHindsight: haha nice
[11:13:49] <ssi> CaptHindsight: I'm planning on running the sabre on a 60A breaker until it nuisance trips, then I'll reevaluate
[11:14:17] <ssi> it probably could use a 100A service, but I don't expect to need anything close to the max spindle power
[11:14:20] <zeeshan> i mean seriously if u look at my poder dist
[11:14:26] <zeeshan> power dist
[11:14:28] <zeeshan> the numbers tell me 100A
[11:14:34] <zeeshan> worst case scenario
[11:14:44] <zeeshan> unless ive really over looked something
[11:14:44] <CaptHindsight> zeeshan: just run #6 thhn
[11:14:57] <zeeshan> CaptHindsight: i have tons of 6 thhn
[11:15:05] <zeeshan> cause at my old house
[11:15:11] <ssi> 6 thhn and a 60A breaker will work just fine
[11:15:12] <zeeshan> i had to run 100 feet of it
[11:15:16] <zeeshan> to get from main panel to my garage
[11:15:17] <zeeshan> and welder
[11:15:23] <zeeshan> ssi how are you calculating that
[11:15:42] <ssi> your original machine wanted 40A service, right?
[11:15:45] <zeeshan> no
[11:15:46] <zeeshan> 60A
[11:15:50] <ssi> ok 60A then
[11:15:57] <zeeshan> that servo drive was only 15A
[11:15:59] <ssi> so it was designed to run everything full load on 60A
[11:16:00] <zeeshan> on the old machine
[11:16:06] <zeeshan> now its 3 times that
[11:16:14] <zeeshan> plus 2 more axis
[11:16:17] <ssi> your servos haven't gotten bigger
[11:16:21] <zeeshan> and ive added a computer
[11:16:25] <ssi> just because the drives can supply 25A doesn't mean they will
[11:16:34] <zeeshan> well im going by the rating of the servos themself
[11:16:39] <zeeshan> for those numbers that you see in the distrubiton
[11:16:48] <ssi> ok like I said, never mind
[11:16:55] <ssi> i know better than to argue with you about something when NUMBERS are involved
[11:17:04] <zeeshan> like i said
[11:17:08] <zeeshan> theyre all based on worse case scenario
[11:17:11] <ssi> I really don't care what you do
[11:17:13] <zeeshan> will it ever happen, prolly never
[11:17:17] <ssi> but 2awg is expensive as balls and hard to pull
[11:17:28] <archivist> diversity, you never need to add all the maximums
[11:17:29] <ssi> and putting a 100A breaker on a machine that needs 60A is just asking for trouble
[11:17:39] <zeeshan> its not 60A anymore
[11:17:42] <zeeshan> theres 2 more additional servos
[11:17:46] <zeeshan> and a PC
[11:17:55] <zeeshan> and 2 additional power supplies
[11:18:30] <archivist> just think how many will take full power at one point in time....none
[11:18:34] <ssi> what size servos
[11:18:46] <ssi> 500w or so?
[11:18:49] <ssi> like your other axes?
[11:18:55] <zeeshan> 1000W
[11:19:25] <archivist> but they are not all taking full power at the same time
[11:19:34] <ssi> ok even assuming you're going to use 50lb servos for your mythical A and B axes
[11:19:35] <zeeshan> archivist: youre right
[11:19:39] <ssi> that's still only an extra 2500W
[11:19:44] <ssi> which is 10A
[11:20:24] <ssi> https://scontent-b-iad.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xpf1/v/t1.0-9/10471511_876280445442_901235789185799916_n.jpg?oh=d418e4256051e628fc58e1cd2fa08288&oe=54F3AFCF
[11:20:33] <zeeshan> im thinking
[11:20:33] <CaptHindsight> he might see some peaks but not often enough to trip a 60A breaker
[11:20:44] <zeeshan> maybe just run computer off the wall outlet
[11:20:57] <ssi> in the grand scheme of things the computer means NOTHING in this scenario
[11:21:09] <ssi> I'd be shocked if a computer running linuxcnc is drawing 200W
[11:21:11] <CaptHindsight> <-- will only speak about zeeshan as though he's not in the channel :)
[11:21:15] <ssi> CaptHindsight: probably wise
[11:21:18] <zeeshan> CaptHindsight: haha :D
[11:21:26] <zeeshan> okay ssi so check this out
[11:21:32] <zeeshan> the manufactuer for this sumitomo drive says 60A
[11:21:36] <zeeshan> for ihe input side
[11:21:55] <zeeshan> when i calculate the numbers i get 35A
[11:22:03] <zeeshan> so i dunno whats going on there
[11:22:04] <ssi> you have a 5hp motor
[11:22:07] <zeeshan> yes
[11:22:15] <zeeshan> which should draw 28A
[11:22:16] <zeeshan> FLA
[11:22:21] <zeeshan> * 1.25 safety factor
[11:22:32] <zeeshan> thats at peak hp.....
[11:22:35] <ssi> right
[11:22:40] <zeeshan> so i dont know why they say 60A
[11:22:42] <zeeshan> makes no sense to me
[11:22:45] <archivist> starting current is much higher
[11:22:47] <ssi> because it's a 10hp vfd!
[11:23:13] <zeeshan> sorry for a 10hp motor is 28A
[11:23:15] <zeeshan> not for 5hp
[11:23:29] <ssi> yeah that sounds more correct
[11:23:33] <ssi> 5hp should be like 16 FLA
[11:23:38] <zeeshan> yes
[11:23:44] <ssi> put it this way
[11:23:50] <ssi> my 15hp motor wants 40 FLA
[11:23:57] <zeeshan> okay fuck it
[11:23:59] <ssi> my 25hp vfd can supply 60A
[11:24:01] <zeeshan> im gonna run the 6/3 wire i have
[11:24:05] <zeeshan> and just protect it with a 60A breaker
[11:24:08] <ssi> there you go
[11:24:13] <zeeshan> if it trips
[11:24:17] <zeeshan> ill change the wire in the future
[11:24:19] <archivist> that is RMS current not peak
[11:24:21] <zeeshan> at least its costing me nothing
[11:24:32] <zeeshan> ill need to put it in conduit
[11:24:36] <zeeshan> since its thhn
[11:24:51] <Tom_itx> then you can blame ssi for making you do it
[11:24:51] <zeeshan> ill size the conduit for 100A wire
[11:25:03] <zeeshan> i know ssi is right
[11:25:07] <zeeshan> because my lathe is 3hp
[11:25:14] <ssi> man can I frame that and put it on the wall?
[11:25:15] <zeeshan> has 2 drives similar supplies and computer running off 30A breaker
[11:25:18] <ssi> can I set it as the channel topic?!
[11:25:27] <zeeshan> and it hasn't tripped yet
[11:25:29] <Tom_itx> TM*
[11:25:44] <zeeshan> so i can't see how this thing will draw more than 60A
[11:25:51] <zeeshan> in a typical application
[11:26:04] <ssi> it won't
[11:26:15] <ssi> I'll be surprised if I ever trip my 60A breaker
[11:26:19] <ssi> and it's actually undersized for my machine
[11:26:22] <zeeshan> im still going to size the wires the same from each breaker
[11:26:25] <zeeshan> okay fak im late for this lab
[11:26:25] <zeeshan> brb
[11:26:45] <ssi> I figure if I try to plow through a massive cut in inconel or something
[11:26:47] <archivist> think sine wave part of the time it is 0 current part well over the RMS current
[11:26:55] <ssi> and achtually load that 15hp spindle up and two servos trying to drag through it
[11:26:59] <ssi> I might be able to trip it
[11:27:17] <ssi> archivist: peak current is sqrt(2) * rms current
[11:27:32] <archivist> sime like to spec for the temperature rise rather than the current
[11:27:37] <archivist> some
[12:26:58] <_methods> http://www.aliexpress.com/item/Sell-Mini-PC-with-both-Android-Windows-8-system/2044898752.html
[12:27:13] <_methods> crazee
[12:27:23] <_methods> $110 quad core stick pc
[12:27:33] <ssi> neat
[12:27:45] <_methods> android windows or linux
[12:27:54] <_methods> poor osx gets no love
[12:27:58] <ssi> too bad it's short on IO
[12:28:54] <_methods> i'm sure you could hook whatever up to it
[12:28:59] <_methods> 2x usb
[12:29:10] <ssi> usb doesn't count :)
[12:29:16] <_methods> in our game
[12:29:30] <_methods> great little pen testing stick
[12:31:01] <ssi> pen testing?
[12:34:02] <_methods> penetration testing
[12:34:08] <_methods> hacking stuff
[12:34:12] <ssi> orite
[12:34:23] <_methods> plug that in on a network somewhere
[12:34:49] <_methods> there are plenty with arm processors
[12:35:02] <_methods> but i think thats the only one i've seen with an atom processor in that format
[12:36:46] <pcw_home> The Baytrail Atoms are the first that can really compete in the same Horsepower/Watt space as the ARMs
[12:37:35] <_methods> yeah i can't wait to take that thing for a spin
[13:01:03] <CaptHindsight> I really wish there was another vendor of x86 besides Intel
[13:05:01] <SpeedEvil> There is.
[13:05:12] <SpeedEvil> Not, however, for modern stuff
[13:17:39] <ssi> I just bought three more of those BE drives :P
[13:17:57] <jdh> with velocity mode?
[13:18:04] <ssi> yes?
[13:18:18] <Connor> BE drives ?
[13:18:25] <jdh> he's a drive whore
[13:18:27] <ssi> amc trapezoidal drives
[13:18:32] <ssi> jdh: I set one on fire last night!
[13:18:36] <archivist> bloody expensive?
[13:18:37] <_methods> hehe drive whore
[13:18:46] <Connor> ssi How the heck did you do that ?
[13:18:47] <ssi> archivist: $60 apiece :P
[13:19:06] <ssi> Connor: one thing I don't like about the amc drives is the dip switches for setting modes are hard to access
[13:19:17] <ssi> you need a tiny flathead or pair of smd tweezers or something to flip them
[13:19:28] <jdh> we have a bunch of AMC drives with different company names on them.
[13:19:38] <ssi> and I've never had a problem before, but this time I guess I didn't let the DC bus bleed after disabling the drive
[13:19:46] <ssi> was trying to get the velocity feedback correct to get the drive to quit running away
[13:19:56] <ssi> and I stuck my tweezers in there to try to flip that switch and something shorted
[13:19:59] <ssi> and it went up like a torch
[13:20:01] <ssi> pretty impressive actually
[13:20:09] <ssi> foot-tall flames :D
[13:20:18] <jdh> nice!
[13:20:21] <jdh> just one drive?
[13:20:24] <ssi> yeha
[13:20:26] <ssi> I had it on the bench
[13:20:33] <jdh> what flamed?
[13:20:37] <ssi> trying to get preliminary setup done on the bench before I install in the machine
[13:20:51] <ssi> a big SMD diode down at the DC input
[13:24:43] <Connor> ssi: Nice!
[13:25:43] <ssi> yeah super fun
[13:26:35] <ssi> I got my cat40 tooling in the mail yesterday
[13:26:40] <ssi> and ordered pull studs from shars
[13:28:14] <Connor> I need to get my machine and this stock over to Pete so we can machine stuff.
[13:28:56] <Connor> Still trying to figure out what size connectors to use for the oil system.
[13:29:14] <Connor> Looks like finding anything in 1/8 NPT is hard..
[13:29:23] <jdh> you need to start working on your outbuilding so you have room for your VMC
[13:29:29] <Connor> most of those Push-To-Connect fittings are 1/4 NPT or metric
[13:29:58] <Connor> jdh: Huh ? I don't have a VMC
[13:30:03] <jdh> yet.
[13:30:12] <jdh> because you don't have room for it.
[13:30:36] <Connor> Honestly.. with as little as I do.. It would be 100% waste of money.
[13:30:46] <ssi> Connor: http://www.poweraire.com/E14-10-32.html
[13:30:53] <ssi> 10-32 thread is even smaller than 1/8npt
[13:30:55] <Connor> I want to get the mill finished up, and switch back to working on my robots.
[13:31:18] <Connor> ssi: Oh Yea.. I did see some of those too on ebay.
[13:31:23] <ssi> they have them in 1/8npt also
[13:31:32] <ssi> I've bought lots of those fittings from poweraire, they're quality
[13:31:47] <Connor> Are they straight 10-32 ?
[13:31:51] <ssi> I think so
[13:31:56] <ssi> I don't have any of the little ones
[13:32:00] <ssi> just 1/4" and up
[13:32:59] <CaptHindsight> http://electronicdesign.com/embedded/misunderstanding-plagues-patent-system LOL
[13:33:13] <CaptHindsight> LOL "Without patents, inventors would keep their inventions secret to prevent competition. When the inventor died, the principles behind the invention would also die. Technology would stagnate. This is at least part of the reason that the principles behind many great ancient inventions have been lost even to this day."
[13:34:04] <ssi> seems legit :P
[13:34:09] <SpeedEvil> Most patentees and patent office examiners need set on fire.
[13:34:12] <jdh> they should have made up some anecdotals to support their assertion
[13:34:52] <SpeedEvil> You should never, ever be able to get a patent on a thing where it takes less time to invent it for someone skilled in the art than to do a full patent search to see if it's patented, and application.
[13:35:17] <ssi> SpeedEvil: agreed
[13:35:22] <archivist> most patents are as obtuse as they can get away with!
[13:35:34] <CaptHindsight> "Are Patents Destroying Innovation? No. This is a ridiculous assertion," Heh
[13:36:10] <CaptHindsight> who writes this crap and who approves it for publication?
[13:36:43] <SpeedEvil> And how many patents does it have
[13:36:51] <ssi> Can you understand an engineering paper by its title alone? Can you understand electronics by reading the title of an electronics text? In the same way, you cannot understand a patent by only reading the title. In fact, nothing in patent law requires the patent title to have anything to do with the invention. I personally have patents where the title is almost meaningless.
[13:37:51] <CaptHindsight> yeah, written by http://electronicdesign.com/author/bob-zeidman
[13:38:16] <CaptHindsight> provides engineering consulting to law firms regarding intellectual property disputes
[13:38:56] <ssi> the problem is that it's so overwhelmingly difficult and expensive to get a patent, than little guys who might actually have something that would be worth protecting by a patent often don't, but patent troll companies will litigate over nonsense
[13:39:11] <SpeedEvil> Quite.
[13:39:42] <CaptHindsight> we have the best patent system that money can buy
[13:39:47] <SpeedEvil> IMO you should never ever be able to get a patent for being the first to think of a problem - then coming up with a solution that someone would normally try
[13:40:10] <ssi> worse than that is that you don't even have to have a solution
[13:40:23] <ssi> you can just dream up something that you think may not exist and patent it
[13:40:24] <CaptHindsight> they redefined obvious
[13:40:43] <ssi> then when someone else comes along and has the same idea and actually implements it, some how you own what they built
[13:41:00] <CaptHindsight> pretty sneaky
[13:41:01] <SpeedEvil> CaptHindsight: indeed
[13:41:53] <CaptHindsight> if you're a small potatoes submitter your patent might be held up for years
[13:42:01] <CaptHindsight> for being to broad
[13:42:41] <_methods> meanwhile apple gets to patent the swipe
[13:43:03] <CaptHindsight> they patented something I was building for them
[13:43:41] <CaptHindsight> well applied for anyway
[13:44:23] <CaptHindsight> been around for years but I'm waiting to see what they actually get it reworded into
[13:44:55] <_methods> i'm sure something appropriately vague and infuriating
[13:46:27] <CaptHindsight> the examiners are instructed to find a way to award a patent if the original submission is already patented
[13:53:19] <CaptHindsight> well if they only granted patents on the non-obvious and it has to work how many new patents would there be?
[13:53:53] <CaptHindsight> this would also not protect the buggy whip makers
[14:19:50] <lair82> Hello Guys, I just got my stuff in to start building the control for my mill project, starting from scratch, what is the best recommendations for compiling using Debian. My plan is to use a Mesa 7I80HD for this one, and I have never used Debian.
[14:21:13] <lair82> I have the software installed off of the bootable usb I made, and started going thru the motions on getting the source from thru git, and the terminal window
[14:22:58] <CaptHindsight> lair82: why not install from the hybrid linuxcnc Wheezy ISO?
[14:23:29] <CaptHindsight> unless I a missing the question
[14:24:00] <CaptHindsight> bbl
[14:25:27] <lair82> That's what I used, I made a usb, from the download page on linuxcnc,
[14:28:51] <lair82_> i moved to the actual machine,
[14:30:03] <lair82_> I when i got to the point of "./configure -a" I got "your kernel '3.4-9-rtai-686-pae' is not known. There might be needed dependencies which won't get set automatically. successfully configured for 'Debian-7.7'-'3.4-9-rtai-686-pae'.."
[14:30:57] <_methods> what are you installing on?
[14:31:12] <lair82_> Then I tried "dpkg checkbuilddeps" and got "dpkg: error: need an action option". Not sure where to go from here,
[14:31:45] <lair82_> A brand new ASrockboard
[14:32:00] <_methods> what mobo what processor?
[14:32:03] <JT-Shop> I'd just use the LiveCD or whatever they call it now
[14:32:15] <JT-Shop> unless you need some feature of master
[14:33:07] <ssi> lair82_: I got the atom boards, and one's running now
[14:33:09] <ssi> thanks
[14:37:48] <cpresser> lair82_: is there any good reason to compile the code yourself?
[14:37:53] <lair82_> Cool sounds good, glad we could be of help, ssi
[14:38:05] <cpresser> lair82_: there is a buildbot for linuxcnc with readymade debian packages :)
[14:38:33] <ssi> I've built linuxcnc from source several times, but always on machines that started out as installs from the livecd
[14:38:37] <ssi> and it was fairly straightforward
[14:38:54] <ssi> but like these guys are saying, unless you need a specific feature of one of the branches or current master, probably should stick with the livecd
[14:39:01] <ssi> the wheezy 2.6.3 livecd is quite good
[14:39:09] <lair82_> I'm using a FM2A88X-ITX with a Kingston ssdnow 120gb Processor
[14:39:35] <cpresser> unless you have a newer board with some unsupported features. i had trouble with USB, so i needed a newer kernel
[14:39:44] <lair82_> As far as I know, i have to run master, to run the 7I80hD board over ethernet
[14:40:15] <cpresser> lair82_: okay, but even if you need master, you dont need to compile yourself: http://buildbot.linuxcnc.org/
[14:40:17] <ssi> ohh fancy
[14:41:13] <_methods> yeah that's one fancy mobo
[14:41:18] <lair82_> I was wondering about that, I have never used the build bot, looks like I know where to head now
[14:41:28] <_methods> i got a pc i pulled out of a trashcan running my linuxcnc
[14:42:17] * JT-Shop wonders why people just don't go to the "downloads" page
[14:42:31] <JT-Shop> http://linuxcnc.org/index.php/english/download
[14:43:33] <lair82_> Long story, but the smaller MB's and processors have killed us, we would daily freeze up our machines when using the d525 style boards, so we went to these, and havent seen any issues since
[14:44:04] <ssi> oh NOW you tell me that ;)
[14:47:11] <cpresser> JT-Shop: the hybrid image doesnt work with newer intel boards (J1900 CPU)
[14:48:58] <lair82_> ssi I have over a hundred rungs in my classicladder alone
[14:49:05] <lair82_> Thats the reason
[14:49:22] <ssi> ah
[14:50:33] <lair82_> Gotta go, return tomorrow
[14:50:49] <JT-Shop> cpresser, thanks
[14:51:11] <_methods> well buildbot looks like the easiest route
[14:52:09] <JT-Shop> cpresser, so can you use the buildbot with the J1900 CPU's?
[14:52:32] <Tom_itx> JT-Shop what series timing belt / gears are you using on your plasma?
[14:52:36] <cpresser> JT-Shop: yes. i installed debian wheezy + buildbot packages
[14:52:49] <cpresser> however, my Mesa-Hardware didnt arrive so far. i could not test it
[14:54:06] <JT-Shop> Tom_itx, one size too small LOL
[14:54:10] <Tom_itx> hah
[14:54:28] <Tom_itx> i'm looking to replace the V belt on my little mill with a GT2 series 9mm wide
[14:54:34] <Tom_itx> hope that's big enough
[14:54:45] <Tom_itx> i think it will be
[14:55:09] <Tom_itx> right now it uses a sewing machine belt
[14:56:23] <JT-Shop> the Y axis belts are about 5/16" wide and the X axis belt is 1/2"
[14:56:43] <JT-Shop> for the spindle drive?
[14:56:55] <Tom_itx> yeah
[14:58:24] <Tom_itx> that's about 8mm and 13mm
[14:58:40] <Tom_itx> these come in 9 and 15mm wide
[14:58:47] <Tom_itx> sounds about right i think
[14:58:55] <Tom_itx> 6 9 & 15mm
[14:59:09] <Tom_itx> 6 is probably too narrow
[14:59:16] <PCW> lair82: freeby.mesanet.com/wheezy-uspace-eth
[14:59:18] <PCW> is a script to build uspace master on the wheezy iso
[15:02:22] <PCW> and the J1900 works fine with the wheezy hybrid ISO _except_ USB doesn't work with the RTAI kernel
[15:02:45] <PCW> (it works with the Preemt-rt kernel though)
[15:04:21] <ssi> I can't get these drives to behave in velocity mode
[15:04:39] <ssi> the SE drives I was able to get to lock up in velocity mode
[15:04:49] <ssi> these want to run away no matter which direction I set the velocity feedback
[15:05:15] <ssi> adjusting the offset pot, they go from full speed one way to full speed the other way in a fraction of a degree of turn
[15:05:22] <ssi> and not at the same place if you go back and forth
[15:05:30] <ssi> I feel like my encoder feedback isn't right or somethign
[15:06:40] <Tom_itx> JT-Shop, i'll have to bore them out since i can't get the right hole sizes i need
[15:07:33] <Tom_itx> JT-Shop, do you get a lot of stretch on the X axis since it's probably fairly long?
[15:07:34] <PCW> do the encoders read correctly from the linuxcnc side?
[15:07:40] <ssi> yes
[15:08:17] <PCW> are the drives encoder inputs isolated?
[15:08:29] <ssi> I have no idea
[15:08:34] <ssi> and I don't think this is going to work
[15:08:38] <ssi> because they're single ended
[15:08:47] <ssi> I think that's the issue, is I was trying to just give it half the differential encoder signal
[15:08:53] <ssi> but clearly it's not high enough to trigger the drive
[15:09:01] <ssi> I'm seeing around 3v as a high on them
[15:09:17] <Tom_itx> run them thru a buffer
[15:09:20] <PCW> that may be a problem since the 7I77 terminates them whan in differntial mode
[15:09:31] <PCW> use a ENCY
[15:09:58] <ssi> well rev2 of my hall board needs to use the encoder signals to fine-correct the hall outputs
[15:10:03] <ssi> I can just repeat it on there
[15:10:12] <ssi> in the short term I guess I'll try to set these up torque mode
[15:10:50] <PCW> you could probably test by setting the 7I77 encoder inputs to single ended mode
[15:11:00] <ssi> hm
[15:11:04] <ssi> can I leave it wired as is?
[15:12:02] <PCW> no, the + and - inputs always have a termination resistor across them
[15:12:09] <ssi> gotcha
[15:12:21] <ssi> so if I disconnect the - inputs at the 7i77 and switch to SE mode
[15:12:22] <ssi> that might work
[15:13:00] <ssi> should I ground the - lines?
[15:13:45] <PCW> yep, at least it wont load down the outputs
[15:13:46] <PCW> and no if you want your encoders to live, dont short their outputs to ground
[15:15:22] <ssi> yep, that works
[15:15:27] <PCW> most differential outputs are like 2 TTL outputs so dont short or tie high
[15:16:37] <PCW> we have a splitter for that purpose but you might as well include it on your adapter
[15:16:52] <ssi> yeah
[15:17:09] <ssi> the first rev of the adapter was designed for the parker drives, and it's incovenient to wire for the new drives
[15:17:19] <ssi> next rev will include encoder handling and be more convenient for wiring
[15:18:12] <ssi> if I was feeling really fancy I could give it modbus and ADs to read the current and velocity values off the drive :P
[15:19:06] <PCW> modbus is a bit too slow to be of much use for current monitoring (well probably ok for a spindle)
[15:19:22] <ssi> could be done via smartserial though, yeah?
[15:19:41] <ssi> it's sort of a silly extra feature
[15:19:51] <ssi> and it'd probably mean moving up to an fpga to do that correctly
[15:33:51] <ssi> PCW: these drives definitely sound different than the sinusoidal drives
[15:33:58] <ssi> especially with me still having that 7.5 degree error
[15:50:04] <ssi> I'm tuning it again with no load, like I did last week on the SE drives, and interestingly it tuned much closer, much more easily
[15:50:07] <ssi> and required no FF2
[15:50:18] <ssi> just some P and FF1 to null the velocity offset
[15:53:44] <JT-Shop> Tom_itx, I get a bit of stretch on both axes and have to adjust my scale to make up for it
[15:55:46] <ssi> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=14DKKsuCQWQ
[15:56:05] <ssi> I'm guessing most of this last bit of error noise is the torque ripple
[15:56:23] <ssi> now I can focus on trying to wring the error out of the hallstate converter
[16:03:25] <JT-Shop> weird the the wave is different in each direction
[16:03:37] <ssi> yeah
[16:03:48] <ssi> and at high speed (480ipm), it's smooth in one direction but oscillates in the other
[16:03:51] <ssi> not sure what to make of that
[16:04:43] <ssi> but... not gonna jump to conclusions too much until I a) get the hall converter fixed, and b) get a load on it
[16:05:05] <ssi> now that I have velocity feedback, these drives are actually locking up and tuning even easier than the sinusoidals did
[16:05:17] <ssi> I just had to set one on fire to get to this point :)
[16:13:41] <JT-Shop> I know what you mean, it is good to see something move
[16:16:06] <ssi> well I've bought something insane like fifteen drives at this point
[16:16:11] <ssi> I need to get some freakin closure :)
[16:25:27] <JT-Shop> holy crap 15 drives?
[16:25:33] <ssi> heh yeah
[16:25:40] <ssi> well right off the bat there's the six parker drives
[16:25:45] <ssi> which are paperweights, sadly
[16:26:00] * JT-Shop doesn't care for Parker anything
[16:26:09] <ssi> yeah well I'm a bit biased against them now
[16:26:11] <JT-Shop> AC servors?
[16:26:14] <ssi> yeah
[16:26:21] <JT-Shop> servos
[16:26:38] <ssi> I have an additional set of challenges in that I'm using the original servos out of the machine
[16:26:43] <ssi> which are fanuc model 5 red caps
[16:26:58] <ssi> 1kw servos with 4-bit fanuc grey code commutation on the encoders
[16:27:05] <ssi> in lieu of hall sensors
[16:27:05] <Deejay> gn8
[16:27:32] <ssi> so I had to build a little cpld board to translate those
[16:27:41] <JT-Shop> wow
[16:27:46] <ssi> and I designed it to work with the parker drives, and such that the cabling would be convenient for them
[16:28:05] <ssi> because the parker drives are sinusoidal, I did a pretty simple converter
[16:28:21] <ssi> sinusoidal drives will switch over to using the encoder for commutation after it gets referenced
[16:28:43] <ssi> the fanuc commutation has 16 states, hall has 6 states
[16:28:46] <ssi> they don't divide evenly
[16:29:03] <ssi> so with my straight lookup table, there's 7.5 electrical degrees of error in my hall state output
[16:29:10] <ssi> on 4 of the 6 transitions
[16:29:10] <JT-Shop> that sounds like some puzzle to sort out
[16:29:28] <ssi> which doesn't matter with a sinusoidal drive, because it's only lumpy for one rev
[16:29:50] <ssi> so I bought those amc SE10A20 sinusoidal drives, which are great but they're too small for these motors
[16:30:05] <ssi> they're 5Ap continuous and 10Ap peak
[16:30:11] <ssi> these motors are 6.8A stall
[16:30:34] <ssi> so I bought BE25A20 drives as well, which I got very very inexpensively thankfully
[16:30:38] <ssi> they're 12.5A/25A drives
[16:30:57] <ssi> and i set one on fire last night
[16:31:00] <ssi> so I ordered another set of three
[16:31:04] <ssi> that adds up to fifteen :)
[16:31:26] <ssi> but since the BE drives are trapezoidal, they use the hall states for commutation all the time
[16:31:38] <ssi> which means my lumpy, non-corrected hallstate converter isn't quite good enough
[16:32:29] <ssi> so what I'm doing is taking the encoder signals into the cpld, and writing some verilog to count lines beyond the index pulse and change hall states more accurately
[16:32:59] <JT-Shop> holy crap
[16:33:05] <ssi> so it'll be sort of like the sinusoidal drives do: it'll use the lumpy, table-lookup hallstate values until it passes an index mark, then it'll switch over to using the encoder-derived, accurate states
[16:33:17] <ssi> yeah.
[16:33:26] <ssi> all this because fanuc has a proprietary scheme to lock you into their drives
[16:33:36] <ssi> and because jon elson wants $150 per axis for his board which does this already
[16:33:39] <ssi> hahaha
[16:33:58] <ssi> and I'm stubborn as hell
[16:37:18] <JT-Shop> I was fixing to say that I thought Jon had a solution for the red caps
[16:37:32] <ssi> yeah and I would have used it had it been sanely priced
[16:38:00] <ssi> that sort of extortion really irks me tho
[16:38:16] <ssi> I made 30 boards and populated three of them for less than the price of one of his converters
[16:39:08] <ssi> if I made all 30 of them I think the cost would be somewhere around $10 per
[16:49:47] <CaptHindsight> lair82_ is gone, but I have no problems with his mainboard and the Wheezy ISO
[16:50:06] <CaptHindsight> everything just works
[16:50:44] <ssi> good to know? :D
[16:51:05] <_methods> i think he was having to use master to use the 7i80hd
[16:51:38] <JT-Shop> ssi, at least you have the savvy to sort out that kind of stuff
[16:51:54] <ssi> JT-Shop: yeah, and I enjoy doing it
[16:51:55] <ssi> so it's ok
[16:52:23] <ssi> plus, by diving into it, I now understand WAY more about ac servo commutation than anyone ought to ;)
[16:53:39] <PCW> if its bumpy one way, you may have a offset in the commutation angle
[16:55:19] <ssi> so I transition at 0, 67.5, 112.5, 180, 247.5, and 292.5
[16:55:28] <ssi> so it's on time, late, early, on time, late, early, on time
[16:56:10] <ssi> but that's assuming that I have them wired correctly relative to the phases
[16:56:19] <ssi> it's possible the whole thing is shifted 60 degrees or something, if that's what you mean
[16:56:33] <ssi> if I swap A and C, then it doesn't run, it just sorta jitters in place
[16:56:37] <ssi> but I haven't tried other permutations
[16:57:03] <dirty_d> v2.6.3 should compile right?
[16:57:15] <dirty_d> im getting the same error that I did compiling master
[16:57:31] <dirty_d> this line _setup.pythis = boost::python::object(boost::cref(this));
[16:57:52] <dirty_d> are you guys developing with an older version of boost?
[16:58:18] <dirty_d> damnit, im in the wrong channel
[17:00:59] <PCW> I would try a 1 count (22.5 degrees?) offset either way
[17:01:34] <ssi> 1 4-bit count is 22.5 degrees
[17:04:05] * JT-Shop thinks a cold cerveza would go good with the BBQ copper
[17:07:17] <_methods> heheh hooray for scrap run party
[17:07:36] <_methods> scrap run oyster roast
[17:09:57] <ssi> PCW: you might be on to something
[17:10:21] <ssi> I arbitrarily started with fanuc code 0000, which is actually 1111 because my inputs are inverted
[17:10:28] <ssi> and 1111 is not 180 degrees out from 0000
[17:10:58] <ssi> but I did determine that the index pulse coincides with 1111 as seen by my inputs... so I'm going to try rotating the whole thing so it aligns based on 1111 as 0 degrees
[17:11:11] <ssi> that'll very slightly change the hall states
[17:11:18] <ssi> by probably about 1 count actually
[17:15:37] <ssi> still sounds rougher in one direction
[17:36:38] <JT-Shop> what would you use to drive some 24v DC brushed servos?
[17:37:32] <ssi> I have a couple amc 80V max brush servo drives on hand
[17:37:37] <ssi> they're cheap on the ebays
[17:38:13] <ssi> actually the brushless drives will drive a brush motor also
[17:38:23] <ssi> but not the other way around
[17:40:00] <ssi> 12a8 is a 20-80V, 6A/12A drive
[17:40:02] <ssi> brush type
[17:40:35] <ssi> BE12A6 is 20-60V, 6A/12A brushless or brush, can use tachs or encoders for velocity feedback
[17:40:38] <ssi> or run torque mode
[17:46:11] <JT-Shop> thanks
[17:47:06] <jdh> I have 20 or so be12a6's driving pinchwheels
[17:47:21] <ssi> they're fairly easy drives to deal with
[17:47:31] <ssi> and they can be had quite cheaply if you watch for deals
[17:47:44] <ssi> I think I paid $35 apiece for my 30A8Ts
[18:13:47] <zeeshan> ssi any luck
[18:14:08] <zeeshan> nm
[18:14:10] <zeeshan> just scrolled up :D
[18:15:55] <PCW> fewer flames
[18:16:02] <zeeshan> haha
[18:16:13] <zeeshan> pcw
[18:16:19] <zeeshan> so i only neded a 5i25 and 7i77 right? :p
[18:16:24] <zeeshan> and some din rail connectors
[18:16:40] <PCW> Yeah that should be enough
[18:16:46] <zeeshan> okay awesome
[18:18:36] <ssi> yeah I'm getting there
[19:42:10] <Tom_itx> how do you group move in solidworks?
[19:43:24] <zeeshan> what do you mean
[19:43:32] <zeeshan> like a bunch of parts in an assembly together?
[19:43:38] <Tom_itx> meh
[19:43:40] <Tom_itx> nevermind
[19:43:46] <Tom_itx> it's not gonna do what i need anyway
[19:44:08] <zeeshan> what are you trying to do
[19:44:27] <Tom_itx> import a couple parts from iges to compare
[19:44:52] <zeeshan> try opening the folder where the parts are
[19:44:56] <zeeshan> select the parts
[19:45:05] <zeeshan> drag and drop em in the grey background of solidworks
[19:45:09] <zeeshan> it should process them
[19:46:13] <Tom_itx> yeah they're in separate files though
[19:46:46] <zeeshan> are you trying to put them in the same assembly?
[19:47:01] <Tom_itx> yeah but i need to offset one or they're gonna overlap
[19:48:13] <Tom_itx> i'll bring em in my cad cam
[19:48:18] <Tom_itx> i know how to do it there
[19:50:08] <Tom_itx> done
[19:50:09] <Tom_itx> :D
[19:50:45] <Tom_itx> looking at timing pulleys, i wanted to compare the profiles
[19:51:33] <zeeshan> nice
[19:51:56] <Tom_itx> 5mm vs 3mm
[19:52:15] <Tom_itx> GT2 or HTD series
[19:52:34] <Tom_itx> i think the 3mm GT2 will be heavy enough
[19:52:45] <zeeshan> how much torque
[19:52:53] <Tom_itx> i dunno
[19:52:58] <Tom_itx> it's the spindle on my sherline
[19:53:36] <zeeshan> to give you acomparison
[19:53:45] <zeeshan> the 1200oz-in steppers
[19:54:12] <zeeshan> are running off mxl style pulleys
[19:54:26] <Tom_itx> i've only got so much room too
[19:54:48] <Tom_itx> it's currently using a sewing machine belt
[19:54:51] <Tom_itx> V belt
[19:55:08] <zeeshan> trying to synchronize your spindle?
[19:55:13] <Tom_itx> no
[19:55:14] <zeeshan> or is it slipping
[19:55:20] <Tom_itx> well that would be a plus too
[19:55:36] <Tom_itx> wearing belts out too quick
[19:56:04] <zeeshan> maybe over tensioned?
[19:56:16] <Tom_itx> i think it's the pulley i made
[19:56:22] <Tom_itx> may be a tiny bit thin
[19:56:43] <Tom_itx> i could chuck it back in the lathe but i've been wanting to put timing pulleys on it anyway
[19:56:45] <Jymmm> paint it, and see where the paint rubs off?
[19:56:57] <Tom_itx> i can see what's going on with it
[19:57:41] <Tom_itx> i'll have to bore them out but i think i'm gonna get the GT2 series
[19:57:51] <Jymmm> I kinda meant to use the rub marks to widen it some
[19:57:52] <zeeshan> free fix is always nice!
[19:57:52] <zeeshan> :D
[19:58:06] <zeeshan> got a pic of your spindle drive assembly?
[19:58:21] <Tom_itx> probably somewhere
[19:59:54] <Tom_L> http://tom-itx.ddns01.com:81/~webpage/cnc/pulley_back.jpg
[20:00:00] <Tom_L> there's the pulley i made for it
[20:00:36] <Tom_L> http://tom-itx.ddns01.com:81/~webpage/cnc/pulley_front.jpg
[20:00:47] <zeeshan> looks nice
[20:00:55] <zeeshan> is ther a taper?
[20:01:01] <zeeshan> *taper on the edges
[20:01:08] <Tom_L> http://tom-itx.ddns01.com:81/~webpage/cnc/psu/encoder_disk1.jpg
[20:01:34] <Tom_L> yes
[20:01:44] <zeeshan> ohh
[20:01:47] <zeeshan> that might be the problem
[20:01:53] <zeeshan> using a tooth belt
[20:01:57] <zeeshan> on a flat surface
[20:01:59] <Tom_L> it's a v belt
[20:02:19] <Tom_L> i'm not that silly
[20:03:22] <Tom_L> i just think it's not wide enough by a few thosandths
[20:04:14] <zeeshan> i dont know if you know this
[20:04:19] <Tom_L> http://tom-itx.ddns01.com:81/~webpage/cnc/psu/encoder_disk2.jpg
[20:04:19] <zeeshan> but the v-belt is supposed to ride on the tapers
[20:04:31] <zeeshan> not on the flat portion of the belt
[20:04:51] <Tom_L> yeah i think it's just not quite wide enough
[20:05:02] <Tom_L> you can see how the belt rides above the pulley a bit
[20:05:10] <zeeshan> yes
[20:05:20] <zeeshan> thats what you want though
[20:05:38] <Tom_L> that or the angle is off a bit
[20:05:46] <gennro> Hello
[20:05:48] <zeeshan> yea
[20:05:50] <zeeshan> that can be a big problem
[20:05:51] <zeeshan> ;/
[20:06:03] <Tom_L> timing belts will fix that :)
[20:06:06] <zeeshan> =D
[20:07:09] <Tom_L> and put me one step closer to rigid tapping
[20:07:54] <zeeshan> you just gotta extend one of those encoder slots
[20:07:58] <zeeshan> and hook up another sensor! :D
[20:08:27] <zeeshan> http://i.imgur.com/PqRCgAV.jpg
[20:08:32] <zeeshan> ive never see a "torque washer"
[20:08:33] <Tom_L> yeah
[20:08:33] <zeeshan> before
[20:08:55] <zeeshan> ive seen the ones where you can bend a flat
[20:09:02] <zeeshan> but not on all 4 corners like that
[20:09:07] <Tom_L> you have but they were likely wavy washers
[20:09:26] <zeeshan> i havent seen a cup washer either
[20:09:33] <Tom_L> i have
[20:09:37] <zeeshan> where
[20:09:40] <jdh> I have tons on my baot
[20:09:42] <jdh> or boat
[20:09:58] <zeeshan> whats their benefit
[20:10:04] <jdh> decorative
[20:10:09] <zeeshan> google is too generic for "cup washer"
[20:10:14] <Tom_L> mostly ^^
[20:10:28] <Tom_L> i've seen them with wood screws too
[20:10:38] <Tom_L> keeps the head from digging in too far
[20:10:50] <zeeshan> found something
[20:10:51] <zeeshan> "Cup Washers are used as spring retainers and locators, centering washers, housings for assemblies, a substitute for larger heavier washers, as spacers to reduce material usage and weight product, end caps, anti-tampering protection for fasteners, or for many other reasons."
[20:10:57] <zeeshan> so since there is a gap
[20:11:05] <zeeshan> when you torque it down, you're elastically deforming the washer
[20:11:28] <zeeshan> so decorative, spring retainer , spacer
[20:11:33] <Tom_L> VW bugs used them alot
[20:11:39] <zeeshan> the old ones?
[20:11:39] <Tom_L> on the sheet metal for one
[20:11:41] <Tom_L> yes
[20:11:49] <Tom_L> the engine sheetmetal
[20:12:25] <Tom_L> used to have a drawer full
[20:13:17] <Tom_L> then there's the 'cup' washer that performs like a wavy washer
[20:13:27] <Tom_L> it crushes the same way
[20:13:50] <Tom_L> not as popular
[20:15:06] <zeeshan> lol
[20:15:08] <zeeshan> im looking at this
[20:15:09] <Tom_L> spark plugs use them but they're copper so they don't spring back
[20:15:11] <zeeshan> "internal external tooth"
[20:15:15] <zeeshan> i havent seen that one either
[20:15:18] <Tom_L> i have
[20:15:20] <zeeshan> where
[20:15:38] <zeeshan> tom you're right!
[20:15:40] <Tom_L> usually on sheetmetal assemblies
[20:15:44] <zeeshan> you're 100% right
[20:15:48] <Tom_L> ?
[20:15:50] <zeeshan> theyre curved on the sparkplugs
[20:15:52] <zeeshan> i just recall now
[20:17:03] <Tom_L> https://www.google.com/search?q=crush+washers&client=firefox-a&hs=2h6&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official&channel=sb&tbm=isch&imgil=E3PbU2FxZm3OPM%253A%253BqF3j0ezreD7eWM%253Bhttp%25253A%25252F%25252Fwww.piloteers.org%25252Fforums%25252F18-maintenance%25252F9153-crush-washer-plug-pics.html&source=iu&pf=m&fir=E3PbU2FxZm3OPM%253A%252CqF3j0ezreD7eWM%252C_&usg=__f53vVAryjyNomtfsGvM5uLws1Oc%3D&biw=1004&bih=614#facrc=_&imgdii=_&imgrc=E3PbU2FxZm3OPM%253A%3BqF3j
[20:17:13] <Tom_L> got your money's worth on that link...
[20:17:38] <Tom_L> oil pan plugs use em too
[20:17:54] <Jymmm> https://www.google.com/images?q=crush+washers
[20:18:14] <Tom_L> you got jipped
[20:18:29] <Jymmm> =)
[20:18:39] <zeeshan> lol
[20:18:40] <zeeshan> i have seen those
[20:18:45] <zeeshan> theyre all over my hydraulic / fuel fittings
[20:18:46] <zeeshan> in the car
[20:19:18] <zeeshan> okay so cup washers = sparkplugs, hydraulic fittings
[20:19:19] <Tom_L> generally made for one use
[20:19:26] <zeeshan> inside/external tooth = sheet metal assemblies
[20:19:35] <zeeshan> torque washer i've seen on axle nuts
[20:19:39] <Tom_L> as are internal star
[20:19:45] <zeeshan> just not the 4 tab kind
[20:21:38] <Tom_L> cup washers are also used on baby stroller axles
[20:21:39] <Tom_L> etc
[20:21:46] <Tom_L> so they push on but won't back off
[20:21:55] <Tom_L> usually those have a couple slots in them
[20:21:55] <zeeshan> ah
[20:22:26] <Tom_L> or other similar apps
[20:22:32] <Tom_L> one time use generally
[20:27:38] <Tom_L> what series pulley did you say you used?
[20:27:46] <Tom_L> MXL?
[20:28:03] <zeeshan> mxl
[20:28:42] <Tom_L> that's similar pitch to 2mm GT2
[20:28:55] <zeeshan> i remember it being .375" pitch
[20:29:04] <Tom_L> this says .080
[20:29:09] <zeeshan> something was .375
[20:29:12] <Tom_L> L
[20:29:12] <zeeshan> or the belt width
[20:29:14] <Tom_L> is
[20:29:18] <zeeshan> 9.525 mm
[20:29:23] <zeeshan> i dont remember the pitch
[20:29:29] <Tom_L> XL is .200 pitch
[20:29:42] <Tom_L> L is .375
[20:29:55] <zeeshan> mxl is?
[20:30:00] <Tom_L> .080
[20:30:10] <zeeshan> okay sweet
[20:30:19] <zeeshan> visually looking at that
[20:30:20] <zeeshan> makes sense
[20:30:32] <zeeshan> whats your spindles torque
[20:30:38] <zeeshan> and rpm
[20:30:41] <Tom_L> no idea
[20:30:44] <Tom_L> rpm is 5k
[20:30:48] <zeeshan> how many watt
[20:30:54] <Tom_L> i generally run it around 3k
[20:31:02] <Tom_L> i don't know about the motor
[20:31:12] <Tom_L> unmarked but it's 90V DC
[20:31:22] <zeeshan> haha i guess no way to tell
[20:31:26] <zeeshan> without knowing the current
[20:31:41] <Tom_L> i'm fairly confident the 3mm GT2 will be ok
[20:32:43] <Tom_L> they make a 5mm GT2 too
[20:33:05] <Tom_L> thing about the GT2 is it is supposed to make better contact than the other series
[20:33:16] <zeeshan> http://i.imgur.com/KzKTknY.jpg
[20:33:19] <zeeshan> only pic i can find
[20:34:48] <Tom_L> did they have the right bores or did you fix that?
[20:35:31] <zeeshan> one of them was the right bore
[20:35:35] <zeeshan> the other one i had to drill and ream
[20:35:47] <zeeshan> the big one you see
[20:35:52] <zeeshan> all my pulleys were in imperial
[20:36:01] <zeeshan> you can buy them in metric bores from sdp-si
[20:36:06] <zeeshan> but it costs too much to order from that place
[20:36:13] <zeeshan> local supplier had em for half the price of sdp-si
[20:36:29] <zeeshan> i dont know what kind of steel it is
[20:36:32] <zeeshan> but its hard
[20:36:35] <zeeshan> it doesnt machine too easily
[20:44:04] <gennro> Well I have 98% of my parts to start building my cnc laser engraver/burning stuff
[20:44:28] <jdh> later you can buy the other 98%
[20:44:44] <gennro> yup
[20:45:43] <gennro> 3w blue laser should be fun
[22:12:33] <ssi> nice!
[22:12:55] <ssi> I referred a friend of mine to an old client of mine to take over all their EE work that I used to do
[22:12:58] <XXCoder> too bad he pinged out
[22:13:02] <ssi> and they need me to come back and contract for them
[22:13:24] <ssi> and their new pcbs are bigger than my eagle license allows, so they bought me a pro license
[22:13:28] <ssi> I've been wanting that for ages
[22:13:50] <XXCoder> funny how luck works out
[22:20:52] <XXCoder> ssi: hows your laser cnc so far
[22:21:01] <ssi> pretty good
[22:21:06] <Someinfoneeded> Is there a default hardware LinuxCNC supports?
[22:21:14] <ssi> there's some stuff I'd do differently if I were building it today, but overall it's working well
[22:21:25] <Someinfoneeded> I was about to run with Pluto-Servo
[22:21:42] <XXCoder> yeah theres always something like that :)
[22:21:42] <ssi> Someinfoneeded: not really a default... there's lots of different supported setups
[22:22:11] <Someinfoneeded> ssi, ty. I guess I'm looking for, What MOST use..
[22:22:39] <ssi> I think in this channel, overwhelmingly people use mesa hardware
[22:22:46] <ssi> I could be wrong about that, but that's mostly what gets discussed :)
[22:22:47] <Someinfoneeded> haha
[22:22:50] <Someinfoneeded> ok
[22:22:51] <ssi> I certainly use tons of it
[22:23:03] <ssi> I have something like seven machines on mesa gear right now
[22:23:20] <Someinfoneeded> Jeff Epler's blog said that he no longer recommends pluto.
[22:23:29] <Someinfoneeded> But I couldn't find out why
[22:23:31] <ssi> tell me about your machine
[22:23:38] <Someinfoneeded> Hurco
[22:23:41] <Someinfoneeded> KMB1
[22:24:09] <Someinfoneeded> It's a beast and hella hard to move
[22:24:21] <ssi> hehe I'm sure
[22:24:25] <ssi> you doing a retrofit on it?
[22:26:02] <Someinfoneeded> keyboard stared failing there... weird, anyways 90v servo and 7hp pwm spindle
[22:26:16] <ssi> 90V brush motors I guess?
[22:26:21] <Someinfoneeded> I am going to retofit it one way or another..
[22:27:21] <ssi> well, personally as far as IO hardware, I'd say go with one of the 7i77 kits from mesa
[22:27:27] <ssi> it ought to handle everything on that machine
[22:27:59] <ssi> very well supported, excellent performance, and reasonably priced
[22:29:27] <Someinfoneeded> Alrighty googling it now, ssi, I appreciate the time and information..
[22:31:06] <ssi> sure thing
[22:31:52] <Someinfoneeded> Well sir, that ain't bad.. err, I'm assuming sir...
[22:32:43] <ssi> sir works :)
[22:32:59] <ssi> yeah, it's really nice hardware for very reasonable money
[22:33:15] <ssi> I don't get kickbacks or anything for recommending the stuff, I just really really like it a lot
[22:33:54] <Someinfoneeded> I briefly looked at galil..
[22:34:40] <ssi> I don't know much about galil
[22:34:49] <Someinfoneeded> That pulled my pockets out of my pant just glancing at prices.
[22:35:09] <ssi> not surprising
[22:35:23] <ssi> most of the stuff in this industry is absurdly priced, especially if you're a hobbyist
[22:35:44] <Someinfoneeded> There hardware is ROCK solid. We use the multi-axis controllers all the time.. Never bought them for my company
[22:35:48] <ssi> that's one reason I love the mesa stuff so much... mortals can afford to buy it, it's very capable, and all the software is open source
[22:36:32] <ssi> I don't trust anything that won't give you the price on the website :)
[22:39:41] <XXCoder> yeah
[22:39:49] <Someinfoneeded> Ha, yeah, Ebay old models (serial communication) and it's 500+
[22:39:52] <XXCoder> to me no price = too expensive for me
[22:44:40] <Someinfoneeded> The 7I77 board shows optically isolated I/O, which is great, but non-replaceable parts, which sucks. I guess I can add a couple of dip chips in between inputs and outputs for replacable security..
[22:47:22] <Tom_itx> or send it in for fix
[22:47:43] <Tom_itx> better yet, don't screw it up
[22:48:21] <ssi> I've repaired mine before
[22:48:24] <zeeshan> Someinfoneeded: i dunno if you know this, but PCW is a mesa guru
[22:48:30] <ssi> and I may have to again :(
[22:48:35] <zeeshan> what blew up
[22:48:52] <zeeshan> !seen asah
[22:48:53] <the_wench> last seen in 2014-10-15 22:15:06GMT 150:14:18 ago, saying Quit: asah
[22:48:56] <ssi> stupid lab supply got bumped, and the 5v source got overvolted
[22:49:00] <Tom_itx> or keep a spare in rotation
[22:49:02] <ssi> saw 15v for a fraction of a second
[22:49:03] <zeeshan> anyone know how to contact asah
[22:49:05] <zeeshan> through forums
[22:49:06] <zeeshan> or email
[22:49:34] <zeeshan> its amazing
[22:49:36] <zeeshan> how scary google is
[22:49:37] <Someinfoneeded> I'm trying to decided about hardware, nothing blew up..
[22:49:40] <zeeshan> i found his email in a minute
[22:50:09] <Someinfoneeded> Not screwing up sounds like a swell Idea..
[22:50:11] <Tom_itx> Someinfoneeded he was referring to ssi
[22:50:22] <ssi> yeah I'm the king of blowing up hardware
[22:50:22] <XXCoder> http://hackaday.com/2014/10/21/carvey-the-cnc-machine-for-everyone/ HMMMM
[22:50:28] <ssi> two nights in a row now! :D
[22:50:40] <zeeshan> i thought you were kidding about the amc drive?
[22:50:48] <ssi> what makes you think I was kidding?
[22:50:52] <zeeshan> i dont know
[22:50:56] <zeeshan> howd you blow it
[22:51:14] <ssi> I told the whole story in here earlier
[22:51:22] <zeeshan> 1 line summary?
[22:51:23] <zeeshan> :D
[22:51:40] <ssi> shorted the dc bus
[22:51:44] <zeeshan> executive summary as they call it
[22:51:46] <zeeshan> in the CEO world
[22:52:19] <zeeshan> how does a dc bus short?
[22:52:27] <zeeshan> flipping the polarity of + / - ?
[22:52:28] <ssi> you'll need the full report for that info
[22:52:42] <zeeshan> haha
[22:52:46] <zeeshan> damn this full report
[22:52:56] <ssi> might have to submit a FOIA request
[22:53:16] <zeeshan> haha
[22:53:27] <zeeshan> can you give me a keyword you said
[22:53:30] <zeeshan> so i can search back
[22:53:40] <ssi> look for "tweezer"
[22:54:18] <zeeshan> LOL
[22:54:19] <zeeshan> found it
[22:54:27] <zeeshan> those dip switches do look like a retarded design
[22:54:29] <zeeshan> correct me if im wrong
[22:54:36] <zeeshan> but on is TOWARDS the inner guts of the drive
[22:54:40] <zeeshan> and off is away from the inner guts
[22:54:41] <ssi> correct
[22:54:44] <zeeshan> so stupid
[22:54:59] <zeeshan> how hard would it have been to flip that shit 90 degrees
[22:55:12] <ssi> it would make them even harder to use
[22:55:17] <zeeshan> really?
[22:55:19] <zeeshan> my stepper ones are 90 deg
[22:55:22] <ssi> the real problem is that they're covered up by the enclosure
[22:55:24] <zeeshan> well you have the same drives
[22:55:28] <zeeshan> oh
[22:55:32] <ssi> and so you have to stick a tool down in the enclosure to hit them
[22:55:39] <zeeshan> well at least you didnt get hurt
[22:55:42] <zeeshan> thats all that matters
[22:55:46] <ssi> not much anyway
[22:55:50] <zeeshan> plasma hitting your face is never good
[22:56:06] <ssi> PCW: are you around perchance?
[23:00:36] <Someinfoneeded> Anyone have a IRC client they recommend? It's been a while, like 10-15 years..
[23:00:41] <zeeshan> i use kvirc
[23:00:45] <ssi> irssi here
[23:00:47] <zeeshan> in windows
[23:01:02] <zeeshan> and xchat in ubuntu
[23:01:09] <zeeshan> irssi is too hardcore :P
[23:01:44] <Someinfoneeded> I'm using kwiic web client and it just feels wrong..
[23:01:53] <zeeshan> what os?
[23:02:51] <roycroft> i've been using ircii for the past 20 years
[23:03:08] <ssi> god my luck really hasn't been running high lately
[23:03:09] <zeeshan> you guys don't like your gui?
[23:03:13] <zeeshan> im on 3 different irc servers
[23:03:29] <zeeshan> ssi wtf happened
[23:03:34] <roycroft> i like guis for some things
[23:03:46] <ssi> just something miserable every day for the last several days
[23:03:49] <roycroft> but they're a waste of real estate and other resources for most things, imo
[23:03:55] <zeeshan> what blew up
[23:04:01] <ssi> two steps forward, one step back, every damn day
[23:04:06] <zeeshan> roycroft: its 2014 mate
[23:04:08] <Someinfoneeded> os? Win7
[23:04:09] <zeeshan> we got resources to waste
[23:04:15] <roycroft> i'm on a macbook pro, and have 5 xterms open on my primary screen
[23:04:18] <ssi> well I killed something in the field/analog supply of the '77
[23:04:25] <ssi> and ISE is being a piece of shit, right on schedule
[23:04:43] <ssi> the fitter is finishing successfully, then crashing
[23:04:52] <ssi> and ISE refuses to go beyond the fitting step because it crashed
[23:04:55] <roycroft> this particular xterm has a black background and green text
[23:04:59] <roycroft> like an old adm3
[23:05:20] <ssi> but beyond that, I'm pretty sure the reason that my code is working crazy/bad is because I don't have any signal conditioning on the encoder signals, and they're bouncing and/or noisy
[23:05:31] <zeeshan> are you talking about TB1
[23:05:33] <zeeshan> or TB2?
[23:05:59] <ssi> after the power hiccup, CR6 is very very dimly lit, and CR7 is out
[23:06:06] <ssi> I'm pretty sure both of those were on previously
[23:06:14] <ssi> and the analog outs for the servo drives aren't working
[23:06:23] <ssi> and if I had to guess, I'd say none of the field IO would be working
[23:06:24] <zeeshan> i see it now in the manual
[23:06:26] <zeeshan> "TB2 field power"
[23:06:34] <ssi> I'm not supplying any field power right now
[23:06:40] <ssi> it was the 5v power that hiccuped
[23:06:43] <zeeshan> o
[23:07:36] <zeeshan> i find it a little ridiculus
[23:07:47] <zeeshan> well actually it depends
[23:07:51] <zeeshan> if it went beyond 5v
[23:07:58] <zeeshan> if it did, i understand something blowing up
[23:08:04] <ssi> it did
[23:08:05] <zeeshan> but if it fluctuated between 0 and 5
[23:08:09] <zeeshan> it shouldnt blow up
[23:08:12] <zeeshan> o
[23:08:45] <zeeshan> hopefully pcw can tell you what chip to replace
[23:08:50] <ssi> yeah usually he can
[23:09:23] <zeeshan> the reason i was asking the other day about meanwell 5v supplies
[23:09:26] <zeeshan> is for this reason
[23:09:34] <zeeshan> i dont want that shit to go to 5.5v for some odd reason
[23:09:37] <zeeshan> and blow something up
[23:09:47] <zeeshan> the general consensus is that they are decent supplies
[23:09:52] <zeeshan> and only flucture 4.99-5.01
[23:09:56] <zeeshan> *fluctuate
[23:10:04] <zeeshan> theyre also internally fused
[23:10:12] <zeeshan> so you dont have to have an external branch fuse for em
[23:10:58] <ssi> sigh
[23:11:03] <ssi> branch fuses protect the wire
[23:11:10] <zeeshan> yes
[23:11:27] <zeeshan> but im using them to protect the device
[23:11:37] <zeeshan> 3 different devices are running off the 15 A branch breaker
[23:11:45] <zeeshan> one of them draws 10 a, the other draws 1a and 3a
[23:11:52] <zeeshan> i was concerned about the 3a device catching on figure
[23:11:54] <zeeshan> same with 1a
[23:11:59] <zeeshan> *figure = fire
[23:12:04] <ssi> just make sure the wires to each device are 15a rated
[23:12:08] <zeeshan> so i was thinking of putting a 3A fuse and 1A fuse
[23:12:15] <zeeshan> to blow before the device catches on fire
[23:12:23] <zeeshan> they all get the same wire rated for 14awg
[23:12:28] <zeeshan> but that doesn't protect the device
[23:12:34] <ssi> good
[23:12:41] <ssi> yeah the devices can be fused at the device if you want
[23:12:45] <ssi> also
[23:12:49] <zeeshan> but later i found out, good power supplies have internal fuses
[23:12:53] <ssi> 5.5v isn't going to kill anything
[23:12:56] <zeeshan> they dont necessarily have a typical glass fuse
[23:13:04] <zeeshan> but they have those black / red type fuses
[23:13:24] <zeeshan> http://jumperone.com/images/2012/08/meanwell-nes-15-12-psu-teardown/001huge.jpg
[23:13:30] <zeeshan> that red thing bottom right
[23:13:32] <zeeshan> cylinder
[23:13:39] <zeeshan> id idnt know that was a fuse :)
[23:14:02] <zeeshan> ssi: i blew up a hobby circuit before
[23:14:10] <zeeshan> when it went to 5.5V
[23:14:10] <zeeshan> haha
[23:14:17] <zeeshan> it was some LED circuit
[23:14:19] <ssi> I mean on the 7i77
[23:14:22] <zeeshan> oh
[23:14:24] <ssi> it should be tolerant of 5.5V
[23:14:31] <ssi> but it's definitely not tolerant of 15V :(
[23:15:14] <zeeshan> why arent you running a 5V supply
[23:15:18] <zeeshan> directly to tht
[23:15:22] <zeeshan> or were you bench testing it
[23:15:24] <zeeshan> with a variable supply?
[23:15:26] <ssi> I'm on the bench
[23:15:28] <zeeshan> ah fuck
[23:15:30] <ssi> the bench supply got bumped
[23:15:33] <zeeshan> fak
[23:16:12] <Someinfoneeded> Note to self, don't use a variable power supply
[23:16:27] <ssi> heh if there's a way to blow something up, I'll find it :)
[23:16:27] <Someinfoneeded> that sucks
[23:16:33] <ssi> it's ok, I can fix it
[23:16:47] <ssi> I'll probably order a second anyway to have a spare
[23:17:14] <Someinfoneeded> You where just trying to find the quickest way to failure..
[23:17:25] <Someinfoneeded> just being efficient
[23:18:08] <Someinfoneeded> so in reality you succeded
[23:18:23] <Someinfoneeded> nope I tried, not bright side
[23:18:29] <Someinfoneeded> no bright*
[23:18:37] <zeeshan> silence!
[23:18:42] <zeeshan> people are trying to sleep
[23:18:47] <ssi> wat
[23:19:13] <Someinfoneeded> Yes sir...
[23:20:47] <Someinfoneeded> ssi, ty for the insight on the hardware... Good luck with fixing your 7i77 board..
[23:20:58] <ssi> thanks, I hope it didn't scare you off them :)
[23:21:27] <zeeshan> i can't wait to get the mesa hardware
[23:21:33] <zeeshan> i wonder how long it'll take to get here
[23:21:37] <zeeshan> i ordered thursday or friday
[23:21:38] <zeeshan> i forget
[23:21:43] <ssi> they usually ship usps priority
[23:21:45] <zeeshan> its coming from cali to hamilton
[23:21:47] <ssi> 2 day for me, coast to coast
[23:21:51] <zeeshan> wow
[23:21:58] <zeeshan> so i should get it by friday then likely
[23:22:09] <LeelooMinai> zeeshan: I had to pay like $100 duty for a mesa kit - just a warning:)
[23:22:19] <zeeshan> LeelooMinai: i used usps
[23:22:21] <zeeshan> not ups
[23:22:25] <Someinfoneeded> Scare, nah, I was all ready looking one how to protect the board further before you mention your was broke while I was on the channel.
[23:22:37] <zeeshan> ups/dhl/fedex
[23:22:39] <zeeshan> all rape you on brokerage
[23:22:53] <zeeshan> usps/canada post brokerage fee is $5
[23:22:55] <zeeshan> + tax
[23:23:20] <Someinfoneeded> is that from me?
[23:23:30] <zeeshan> Someinfoneeded:
[23:23:37] <zeeshan> just follow the spec sheet the board comes with
[23:23:39] <zeeshan> and you wont have issue
[23:23:46] <ssi> yeah they're really not that bad
[23:23:49] <ssi> just don't do anything too dumb
[23:23:56] <LeelooMinai> Hmm, when I was ordering I don't think it was an option (or maybe it was more expensive and I've choosen the least expensive one)
[23:24:04] <zeeshan> theres a couple ways to blow up electronics from my noob experience
[23:24:05] <ssi> I killed an output driver on a 7i76 once by switching a solenoid without an external flyback diode
[23:24:10] <zeeshan> i havent done these but i've heard of it
[23:24:15] <zeeshan> if you flip the polarity on the supply
[23:24:18] <zeeshan> you'll blow it up
[23:24:28] <zeeshan> if you overvoltage the supply, you'll blow it
[23:24:30] <ssi> I killed the bus switches on a 5i25 by applying 300V plasma torch voltage to an input :D
[23:24:32] <zeeshan> so stay away from shitty power supplies
[23:24:53] <zeeshan> theres a reason why computer people love their stable power supplies
[23:24:58] <zeeshan> cause unstable power supplies blow up crap
[23:25:12] <zeeshan> LOL ssi
[23:25:19] <zeeshan> was that an easy fix?
[23:25:30] <zeeshan> LeelooMinai: yes its more expensive that ups
[23:25:33] <zeeshan> it was ups 28 bux
[23:25:37] <zeeshan> and 36 bux usps
[23:25:41] <ssi> zeeshan: yeah
[23:25:45] <zeeshan> but it saves you massively during the cross border fees
[23:25:50] <ssi> pcw sent me some bus switch chips and I swapped em
[23:25:58] <zeeshan> it'll be like 21 dollars in cross border fees
[23:26:02] <zeeshan> nice ssi
[23:26:08] <zeeshan> see thats another great thing about mesa
[23:26:10] <zeeshan> SUPPORT
[23:26:20] <zeeshan> 1. you're not getting raped in cost
[23:26:22] <ssi> yeah I'm pretty sure if you mail it to them they'll fix it for you
[23:26:28] <zeeshan> 2. it's not a centroid so its not propeitry
[23:26:31] <zeeshan> 3. support!
[23:26:32] <LeelooMinai> zeeshan: Yes, but I did not know just choosing different postal service somhoe changes the duty and taxes - it's weird.
[23:26:36] <ssi> I dunno if it's free or not, probably depends on how dumb you are and how frequently you are dumb
[23:26:48] <ssi> but pcw mailed me chips cause I have the tools to do it myself
[23:26:49] <zeeshan> LeelooMinai: all the big couriers charge a crazy amount of brokerage fees
[23:26:54] <zeeshan> which is a % of the value of your item
[23:27:07] <zeeshan> whereas canada post charges a standard $5 irregardless of value
[23:27:12] <ssi> I just ordered another 7i77 kit
[23:27:21] <ssi> so I'll have something working by the end of the week, and a spare when I repair this one
[23:27:32] <zeeshan> ssi
[23:27:36] <ssi> actually this kit I stole from the g0704 project
[23:27:36] <zeeshan> ask him to ship you an ic
[23:27:39] <zeeshan> or whatever blew up
[23:27:40] <zeeshan> so you can fix it!
[23:27:47] <zeeshan> and not pay shipping twice
[23:27:49] <ssi> I need to talk to him first and figure out what's likely to be dead
[23:27:58] <ssi> i can likely just sneak it into my next digikey order
[23:28:00] <ssi> no big deal
[23:28:02] <LeelooMinai> I will be wiring my mesa thing romorrow, as I finally got shielded cat cable for steppers.
[23:28:12] <LeelooMinai> https://www.flickr.com/photos/100017731@N03/15255003539/
[23:28:17] <zeeshan> isn't cat cable very thin?
[23:28:21] <zeeshan> like 24awg?
[23:28:25] <LeelooMinai> https://www.flickr.com/photos/100017731@N03/15305130730/ :)
[23:28:43] <LeelooMinai> Yes, I will pair them to get them to same area as 18 awg - should do
[23:28:51] <LeelooMinai> Since I need 4 per stepper anyways
[23:28:54] <ssi> zeeshan: my plasma table and laser both have cat5 for their stepper wires
[23:28:58] <ssi> not even paired :P
[23:29:01] <ssi> they don't heat too bad
[23:29:10] <zeeshan> well i guess it depends on the draw right
[23:29:13] <zeeshan> im running big steppers
[23:29:16] <zeeshan> i calculated 18awg
[23:29:23] <ssi> plasma is all 3A
[23:29:26] <zeeshan> oh
[23:29:29] <ssi> it's a bit too much for the wiring, but not terrible
[23:29:33] <LeelooMinai> I did research for it and 18awg is fine, and then 24 paired will be too
[23:29:54] <zeeshan> i used that grey wire stuff
[23:29:58] <zeeshan> that has foil in it
[23:30:02] <zeeshan> dunno what its called
[23:30:08] <zeeshan> found it at a electronics place
[23:30:12] <zeeshan> 36 bux for 100 feet
[23:30:16] <ssi> 2x24 isn't equivalent to 18awg tho
[23:30:19] <zeeshan> i feel ike i got raped
[23:30:22] <ssi> closer to 21awg
[23:30:31] <zeeshan> yea
[23:30:35] <LeelooMinai> That's why I used STP cable instead:)
[23:30:36] <zeeshan> pi r^2
[23:30:39] <zeeshan> homie!
[23:30:42] <ssi> 24awg is 404 cmil
[23:30:45] <LeelooMinai> It was much cheaper than specialized 4-wire cable with shield
[23:30:48] <ssi> 18awg is 1620cmil
[23:31:02] <zeeshan> 404*2 != 1620
[23:31:04] * LeelooMinai looks sternly at ssi
[23:31:07] <zeeshan> its cause of the r^2 relationship
[23:31:12] <zeeshan> of cross sectional area
[23:31:23] <ssi> zeeshan: I got into an argument with a waitress at a pizza joint once upon a time
[23:31:29] <ssi> said pizza joint sells 30" pizzas
[23:31:31] <ssi> and 15" pizzas
[23:31:33] <zeeshan> LOL
[23:31:37] <LeelooMinai> I just used this table: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_wire_gauge
[23:31:41] <ssi> and she was convinced that a 30" was the same as 2 15"
[23:31:41] <zeeshan> cmon man, you know better to argue with a pizza worker
[23:31:44] <zeeshan> LOL
[23:31:58] <ssi> LeelooMinai: I used the same table
[23:32:04] <zeeshan> i bet that waitress still thinks she's right till this day
[23:32:08] <ssi> what did you go by, the diameter?
[23:32:12] <ssi> cause that's the same as the pizza fail :)
[23:32:31] <LeelooMinai> 0.823 mm^2 area for awg 18 and 0.205 for awg24
[23:32:35] <LeelooMinai> O... wait
[23:32:38] <ssi> aha!
[23:33:00] <zeeshan> dont worry LeelooMinai
[23:33:00] <LeelooMinai> I bet I scrolled the table and selected wrong column when I lost sight of headers
[23:33:02] <zeeshan> it happens :P
[23:33:03] <LeelooMinai> Damn...
[23:33:14] <LeelooMinai> Well, I could use 2 per cable still...
[23:33:19] <ssi> it'll be fine
[23:33:21] <zeeshan> whats the draw
[23:33:22] <LeelooMinai> Join 4 of them
[23:33:32] <zeeshan> what size steppers
[23:33:34] <LeelooMinai> That would get me to awg18
[23:33:42] <ssi> man... canadians love to oversize wires ;)
[23:33:53] <zeeshan> ssi seriously its better to be safe
[23:33:57] <zeeshan> than have to deal with shit later on
[23:34:00] <ssi> oh I know
[23:34:05] <zeeshan> i mean we're dealing with simple stuff
[23:34:09] <zeeshan> but like the hospital distribution we did
[23:34:12] <zeeshan> everything was sized up
[23:34:17] <zeeshan> to allow for expansion
[23:34:22] <LeelooMinai> The steppers are the biggest from the Chinese nema23 ones - forgot what they are in amps
[23:34:24] <zeeshan> and to account for screw ups
[23:34:35] <ssi> and on a project like that, that's absolutely the right way to go
[23:34:39] <ssi> it's someone else's money for starters
[23:34:41] <LeelooMinai> Hmm... I guess I will need to drill more holes in my alu plate then:/
[23:34:43] <ssi> and the labor costs more than the parts
[23:34:51] <zeeshan> btw i decided to grab that 3 gauge wire
[23:34:51] <ssi> but for something like your mill service
[23:34:57] <ssi> did you? lol
[23:34:58] <zeeshan> cause i can beneift from having extra 240vac
[23:35:01] <LeelooMinai> Amd I thought I was done: https://www.flickr.com/photos/100017731@N03/15305172798/in/photostream/
[23:35:02] <zeeshan> on the other side of the garage
[23:35:05] <zeeshan> i can move my bead roller there
[23:35:17] <zeeshan> right now there is only 110vac there
[23:35:26] <zeeshan> which sucks a lot :P
[23:35:42] <LeelooMinai> Drilling time tomorrow then.
[23:35:42] <zeeshan> LeelooMinai: your drill press skills are great
[23:36:03] <LeelooMinai> What skills - you pull the handle and boom, hole
[23:36:07] <ssi> haha
[23:36:11] <zeeshan> :D
[23:36:11] <ssi> hopefully no boom
[23:36:17] <ssi> usually boom means something went horribly awry
[23:36:25] <zeeshan> my boom was a powersupply failure
[23:36:30] <zeeshan> usually things happen pretty quick :P
[23:36:48] <zeeshan> have you had an explosion
[23:36:57] <ssi> https://fbcdn-sphotos-d-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-xap1/v/t1.0-9/10659421_10203230039811417_6820100637874985074_n.jpg?oh=0a094d5bccf25b8025f2e2a9e924fbb1&oe=54AA7C7D&__gda__=1421367336_d6533c32c8bb34944535c7c7f21ebcf9
[23:36:57] <zeeshan> where you feel the heat wave on the hairs of your face?
[23:37:05] <zeeshan> LOL
[23:37:15] <zeeshan> wow thats halarious
[23:37:17] <zeeshan> it hurts
[23:37:30] <zeeshan> thats the most retarded looking plane too
[23:37:40] <Someinfoneeded> No, it's better....
[23:38:00] <Someinfoneeded> you know for turning
[23:38:35] <zeeshan> when i was doing that .5" depth of cut in aluminum
[23:38:41] <zeeshan> i kept my hands on the wire running to the Z stepper
[23:38:48] <zeeshan> i was worried the 18awg would overheat
[23:38:48] <zeeshan> lol
[23:39:22] <ssi> zeeshan: you know a couple weeks ago I set the bed of the laser on fire?
[23:39:25] <ssi> that was an exciting day too
[23:39:30] <zeeshan> haha
[23:39:32] <zeeshan> whats the bed made out of?
[23:39:36] <zeeshan> your favourite mdf?
[23:39:43] <zeeshan> wait i think it was you against mdf
[23:39:44] <ssi> well it was 1/4" plywood
[23:39:49] <zeeshan> that was LeelooMinai the mdf lover
[23:39:52] <ssi> yeah heh
[23:40:01] <ssi> mdf is a miserable substance
[23:40:07] <zeeshan> like aids
[23:40:08] <ssi> I'll use it for certain things, but I don't have to like it
[23:40:21] <zeeshan> you know what mdf is great for?
[23:40:23] <ssi> the plywood bed support has been replaced with expanded metal
[23:40:26] <zeeshan> knocking someone out with
[23:40:27] <ssi> which isn't ideal because it reflects
[23:40:28] <zeeshan> thats it!
[23:40:30] <LeelooMinai> It doesn't like mosture very much
[23:40:40] <ssi> no, it doesn't like moisture at all
[23:40:52] <ssi> or battery acid, in fact
[23:40:56] <LeelooMinai> My favourite material is aluminum:)
[23:41:19] <zeeshan> can you run an angle grinder
[23:41:21] <zeeshan> of flap disk
[23:41:22] <LeelooMinai> Because it's good enough for most things and I can actually work with it
[23:41:24] <zeeshan> w/ 200 grit
[23:41:29] <zeeshan> and get rid of the gloss?
[23:41:36] <Someinfoneeded> ehh, work in 5 hours. night...
[23:41:43] <zeeshan> or blast it in the sand blaster
[23:42:05] <zeeshan> LeelooMinai: did you see the cheap aluminum on kijiji
[23:42:07] <zeeshan> its kind of far from you
[23:42:15] <zeeshan> this guy is selling 600 lb of aluminum
[23:42:17] <zeeshan> plate, round bar
[23:42:19] <zeeshan> for $250
[23:42:27] <zeeshan> 6061 too
[23:42:37] <zeeshan> i picked up the roundbar from him
[23:42:37] <LeelooMinai> Sounds like a deal
[23:42:50] <zeeshan> i have no use for that plate
[23:43:06] <LeelooMinai> what city was that?
[23:43:10] <zeeshan> st catharines
[23:43:12] <zeeshan> so kinda far from you
[23:43:16] <zeeshan> 45 min for me
[23:43:58] <zeeshan> did you guys know
[23:44:05] <zeeshan> that stainless steel doesn't like chlorine?
[23:44:30] <zeeshan> in steam engines when they use tap water
[23:44:40] <zeeshan> the chlorine attacks the grain boundaries in the stainless
[23:44:44] <zeeshan> and you get microcracks
[23:44:59] <zeeshan> (at higher temperatures, chlorine seperates from the tap water)
[23:45:28] <zeeshan> "intragranular stress corrosion cracking-induced"
[23:45:54] <zeeshan> sometimes called " chloride stress corrosion cracking"
[23:46:01] <zeeshan> okay enough of fun fact for the night
[23:46:01] <zeeshan> :D
[23:46:05] <LeelooMinai> Maybe that's why long time ago I decided not to use tap water for tea:)
[23:46:37] <zeeshan> :D
[23:48:01] <zeeshan> http://www.repeater-builder.com/other-mfrs/megawatt-ps/load-test-cable.jpg
[23:48:10] <zeeshan> does anyone wire their psu wires like this?
[23:48:15] <zeeshan> i just give the wires in
[23:48:17] <zeeshan> and clamp it down lol
[23:48:31] <zeeshan> i've had some ring terminals fail on my in car applications
[23:48:33] <LeelooMinai> That's nice
[23:48:39] <zeeshan> so i try to avoid em
[23:48:40] <LeelooMinai> I shall do that too:)
[23:48:59] <zeeshan> at eaton
[23:49:06] <zeeshan> we used to do our control power wiring w/ these things:
[23:49:21] <zeeshan> ofcourse i cant find it
[23:49:46] <zeeshan> http://www.wirebarn.com/assets/images/pin%20terminals/16-14%20-%20vinyl%20insulated%20pin%20terminal.jpg
[23:49:47] <zeeshan> this is not it
[23:49:50] <zeeshan> but it looked similar to it
[23:49:56] <zeeshan> and that end would get shoved in
[23:50:52] <ssi> zeeshan: ferrules
[23:50:55] <zeeshan> att he company the in company rule was
[23:50:56] <zeeshan> https://s3.amazonaws.com/cesco-content/unilog/Batch6/781810/17224-ProductImageURL.jpg
[23:50:58] <zeeshan> for something like that
[23:50:58] <ssi> and yes I used them exclusively on the hnc
[23:51:05] <zeeshan> you would need to use ferrules (thank you ssi)
[23:51:07] <ssi> cause I used screwless dinrail terminal blocks
[23:51:11] <ssi> and the wires wouldn't hold
[23:51:13] <ssi> but the ferrules would
[23:51:49] <zeeshan> if you had "pads" on your terminal block
[23:51:57] <zeeshan> it was perfectly fine to just shove wires in there
[23:52:10] <zeeshan> there was no need to use ferrules
[23:52:42] <zeeshan> as you can tell
[23:52:45] <zeeshan> i miss working trhere :{
[23:52:48] <zeeshan> can't wait to graduate
[23:52:56] <zeeshan> my exboss has emailed me a few times asking me when ill graduate
[23:53:08] <zeeshan> but i at the same time want a more _mechanical_ eng job
[23:53:17] <zeeshan> making enclosures and doing heat transfer calculations isn't my idea of mech eng
[23:53:25] <zeeshan> i want to be designing heavy equipment like cranes!
[23:53:56] <zeeshan> eaton's work environemnt is a+++++
[23:53:59] <zeeshan> flex time
[23:54:03] <zeeshan> people are stupid friendly
[23:54:10] <zeeshan> if you make a mistake, you don't get yelled at
[23:54:29] <zeeshan> people have a way to communicate that you made an error without making you feel like a nobody
[23:54:29] <ssi> speaking of eaton
[23:54:32] <roycroft> while looking for stepper motors, i see that there are some with encoders for a reasonable price
[23:54:39] <ssi> there is a place in the town I live in called Eaton Chiropractic
[23:54:42] <roycroft> is it worth paying a bit extra for them?
[23:54:50] <ssi> and there used to be an ice cream parlor next door named Eatin' Ice Cream
[23:54:52] <zeeshan> roycroft: what kind of encoders?
[23:54:57] <ssi> and it made me laugh and laugh
[23:55:02] <zeeshan> hah
[23:55:05] <roycroft> and do they work easily with linuxcnc? (or is that just a function of the controllers)
[23:55:14] <roycroft> i shall have to go look again
[23:55:16] <zeeshan> roycroft if they're encoders
[23:55:26] <zeeshan> you might be able to setup a position loop in linuxcnc
[23:55:32] <zeeshan> to control errors in position
[23:55:42] <zeeshan> like detect loss of steps
[23:55:43] <roycroft> the ones i'm seeing just say "with optical encoder"
[23:55:53] <zeeshan> how well it'll work, i have no clue
[23:56:11] <zeeshan> ssi did i show you this pic
[23:56:14] <zeeshan> http://i130.photobucket.com/albums/p252/turbozee84/null_zpsc0883b70.jpg
[23:56:16] <zeeshan> thats like
[23:56:17] <roycroft> it would seem to be the best of both worlds
[23:56:23] <zeeshan> 800 lb of copper
[23:56:26] <roycroft> which probably means it doesn't fit well in either
[23:56:27] <zeeshan> in that one enclosure lol
[23:56:42] <zeeshan> one of the jobs i had on top of routing based on the electrical drawings
[23:56:47] <zeeshan> was supporting all that weight
[23:56:55] <zeeshan> using those fiberglass isolators
[23:57:29] <ssi> neat
[23:57:32] <zeeshan> roycroft: try it out
[23:57:33] <zeeshan> report to us
[23:57:39] <zeeshan> if you suceed ill throw encoders on mine
[23:57:47] <ssi> so looks like I'm gonna be stuck spinning another board fairly quickly
[23:57:57] <roycroft> when i build the router i'm going to buy one stepper motor at first
[23:58:08] <ssi> roycroft: you absolutely can do some fun things with encoder'd steppers
[23:58:09] <roycroft> just to see how it works
[23:58:19] <zeeshan> i took a picture of my f up at the company too
[23:58:23] <ssi> roycroft: setup a stepgen in velocity mode and then treat it like a velocity mode servo
[23:58:24] <zeeshan> as a reminder
[23:58:25] <zeeshan> http://i130.photobucket.com/albums/p252/turbozee84/null_zps02b656a6.jpg
[23:58:26] <roycroft> i can always make that one with an encoder
[23:58:43] <zeeshan> i accidently specified on the drawings to paint the parts after forming/laser cutting
[23:58:44] <roycroft> get it going without hooking up the encoder, then see if i can make the encoder work
[23:58:50] <zeeshan> the poor welder had to strip the paint
[23:58:51] <zeeshan> and weld it
[23:58:55] <zeeshan> and deal wit hthe toxic fumes
[23:59:00] <zeeshan> its powdercoated
[23:59:57] <zeeshan> ssi: what'd be the benefit if having a stepper in velocity mode?