#linuxcnc | Logs for 2014-10-20

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[02:09:40] <Deejay__> moin
[06:57:06] <zeeshan> too early
[06:57:06] <zeeshan> :{
[07:35:07] <Tecan> COFFEE
[08:27:41] <archivist> cheez sammich
[08:38:53] <ssi> cereal
[08:39:41] <pcw_home> parallel
[08:39:45] <ssi> :D
[09:03:33] <Tom_itx> MSI Z77A-G43 any good for linuxcnc? has cereal and parallel
[09:04:09] <Tom_itx> odd for a new board
[09:05:41] <pcw_home> Lots of new boards have parallel
[09:09:53] <pcw_home> I was just doing some tests with this: (with G3258)
[09:09:55] <pcw_home> http://www.gigabyte.com/products/product-page.aspx?pid=4679#ov
[09:19:22] <gonzo_> peter, did the full hm2 support for the 7i90 go into the latest release of linuxcnc?
[09:20:23] <pcw_home> its in master not sure about 2.6.x
[09:25:19] <gonzo_> master?
[09:26:24] <pcw_home> Actually looks like it was added at 2.6.0
[09:27:52] <gonzo_> I really must get back on to playing with that. I managed to get the 7i90 flashed, but that was about as far as I got
[09:28:10] <gonzo_> was waiting for the hm2 support.
[09:32:52] <dirty_d> so is anyone using this with a raspberry pi?
[09:33:48] <dirty_d> i read the page about timing issues and what not, but that should be pretty easily solvable by writing a device driver taht buffers stepper signals and times them with one of the hardware timers and its ISR
[09:34:08] <SpeedEvil> dirty_d: If you're going that far - the BBB is a _much_ better platform
[09:34:23] <SpeedEvil> itactually has a couple of high speed microcontrollers designed for this stuff
[09:34:38] <pcw_home> except fpr dismal graphics
[09:34:45] <dirty_d> It has a main processor and an additional microcontroller on it?
[09:34:59] <SpeedEvil> pcw_home: indeed
[09:35:02] <SpeedEvil> dirty_d: two
[09:35:11] <pcw_home> Yes 2x PRUs
[09:35:19] <SpeedEvil> dirty_d: 200MHz 32 bit processors designed for hard-realtime stuff
[09:35:20] <dirty_d> how are they connected to the main processor?
[09:35:35] <SpeedEvil> Shared memory window IIRC
[09:35:44] <dirty_d> hmm
[09:35:52] <pcw_home> shared memory (probably DMA also)
[09:35:54] <SpeedEvil> they are not connected to main memory, but have 16(?) K each
[09:36:53] <pcw_home> Theres also mungie's project for DMA stepgen on RPI
[09:37:12] <pcw_home> not sure where that stands
[09:37:32] <dirty_d> the only reason i asked rpi, is because I have one not being used for anything
[09:37:46] <dirty_d> it seems like it shoulnt be hard to do
[09:38:03] <dirty_d> im gonna check out the linuxcnc source
[09:38:38] <pcw_home> Fast step rates are an issue since AFAIK only preemt-RT and Xenomai RT kernels are available
[09:39:09] <pcw_home> (though the DMA scheme may get around that)
[09:39:59] <dirty_d> even without DMA im sure you could just buffer the step commands in a kernel module, and use a hardware timer and interrupt to do the actual stepping
[09:41:26] <pcw_home> The hardware timer will suffer the same latency as all tasks
[09:42:48] <pcw_home> its not like a micorcontrller where you have full control of the hardware/software
[09:43:36] <archivist> dirty_d, linuxcnc uses kernel now
[09:45:38] <dirty_d> pcw_home, hmm, yea i guess if you cant make the timer interrupt have a higher priority than ones that might use a lot of time
[09:46:06] <dirty_d> but I would think you'd be able to
[09:46:12] <ssi> the rpi isn't a great platform
[09:47:58] <pcw_home> LinuxCNC use a RT OS so will have higher latencies that a low level hardware approach but portable and correct
[09:48:48] <pcw_home> rather than "works on this weeks hardware"
[09:49:38] <archivist> one person crammed it onto a pi somewhere but no idea if he maintains it
[09:50:25] <dirty_d> pcw_home, true
[09:55:16] <CaptHindsight> http://www.raspberrypi.org/forums/viewtopic.php?t=33809 RPi running LinuxCNC with a Xenomai kernel using a PIC32 based add-on card.
[09:56:37] <pcw_home> also long thread on linuxcnc forum
[09:56:39] <dirty_d> seems easy enough to write an rpi hal driver
[09:56:39] <pcw_home> http://www.linuxcnc.org/index.php/english/forum/18-computer/20514-emc2-running-on-raspberry-pi?limitstart=0
[09:57:50] <CaptHindsight> the PIC32 was connected to the Rpi over SPI, just like Jeplers 7i90 to the Odroid
[09:58:41] <FinboySlick> CaptHindsight: Out of curiosity, you still toy with coreboot?
[09:59:59] <dirty_d> why is a PIC32 neccessary?
[10:00:08] <dirty_d> the rpi already has timers and gpio
[10:01:46] <dirty_d> you should be able to use the nvic to set up a timer interrupt with higher priority than everything else.
[10:02:37] <dirty_d> although if another interrupt masks it...
[10:03:12] <pcw_home> Sure running on bare metal, but as soon you have t get along with the OS its all out the window
[10:04:13] <dirty_d> it shouldnt be an issue at all
[10:04:18] <cpresser> dirty_d: because its way easier to use an additional uC than to fiddle with the kernel. at least for hardware-guys :)
[10:05:42] <dirty_d> true
[10:06:52] <pcw_home> Its not just the kernel either. when you have a multitasking OS accessing hardware on your SOC you may be find you hardware access blocked for long enough periods to be an issue
[10:09:15] <SpeedEvil> And then tehre is random crap
[10:09:15] <pcw_home> on PCs software step generation almost always uses RTAI whaich has the lowest latency of the various free Linux RTOS's
[10:09:40] <SpeedEvil> Like graphics cards or things pulling things out of main RAM and blocking the bus for long enough to create jitter
[10:10:00] <dirty_d> hmm
[10:10:08] <pcw_home> but for the RPI only Xenomai and Preemt-RT are available both of which have higher latency
[10:10:26] <SpeedEvil> It depends.
[10:10:41] <SpeedEvil> For low-rate steppers - it may not be a concern
[10:10:58] <dirty_d> what kind of stepping frequency are we talking for a typical cnc mill?
[10:11:43] <pcw_home> depends...
[10:11:46] <dirty_d> i cant remember what microstepping setting im using
[10:13:53] <dirty_d> i think 1600 steps/rev
[10:14:22] <pcw_home> with software stepping often 1/4 or 1/2 stepping is used to allow fast rapid rates, 1600 would be 1/8 step
[10:14:22] <ssi> what's your leadscrew pitch?
[10:15:49] <dirty_d> 5mm
[10:15:55] <dirty_d> so around 13kHz at 20ipm
[10:15:58] <dirty_d> right?
[10:16:22] <_methods> anyone here tried out these closed loop steppers?
[10:16:24] <_methods> http://www.aliexpress.com/item/NEMA-23-closed-loop-stepper-motor-HM86D-driver/2031867996.html
[10:16:56] <ssi> 20ipm on a 5mm screw is about 100rpm
[10:17:02] <pcw_home> 8 KHz at 60 IPM
[10:18:19] <dirty_d> pretty slow
[10:18:33] <pcw_home> probably 2x that is easy on a PC parallel port (if your drives will do it)
[10:18:46] <dirty_d> as long as interrupts dont get globally disabled in the kernel for long
[10:18:56] <dirty_d> i have no idea if they do
[10:19:10] <pcw_home> thats why you use RTAI
[10:19:44] <pcw_home> (so they dont)
[10:20:15] <dirty_d> ooo, there is no more glocal cli()
[10:20:18] <dirty_d> global*
[10:21:59] <pcw_home> leaving CLI in the hands or mere mortals is a recipe for disaster
[10:22:44] <dirty_d> i guess it would be easy to test, set up a timer and isr, have it toggle a gpio pin at 100khz
[10:22:51] <dirty_d> then check the jitter
[10:23:35] <CaptHindsight> _methods: for applications where you aren't sure if you have enough torque, the screws tend to bind for not yet discovered reasons, not sure if you're stepping to fast, etc etc?
[10:24:01] <_methods> nah i was just wondering if anyone had tried them out on a machine
[10:24:32] <_methods> was thinking about using them for a build
[10:24:54] <ssi> the line between servo and stepper get pretty blurry when you look at stuff like that in contrast to a brushless servo with a step/dir drive
[10:25:13] <pcw_home> They are full servos
[10:25:42] <pcw_home> (just with 2 phase 50 pole motors)
[10:25:55] <ssi> yeah I suppose it's just a two phase servo with a step/dir position mode drive
[10:25:59] <CaptHindsight> but with the noise (music) that steppers bring
[10:26:20] <ssi> servos have their own music :)
[10:27:33] <pcw_home> Yep, they also have a couple nice advantages 50 poles so low speeds and they can be perfectly quiet when static (they can run in low current step motor mode when idle so no encoder jitter)
[10:28:01] <_methods> interesting
[10:28:10] <CaptHindsight> so why close the loop?
[10:28:30] <pcw_home> 0 power if not needed
[10:28:51] <pcw_home> better performance (stiffer)
[10:29:09] <ssi> ooh I hadn't even thought about that
[10:29:16] <pcw_home> can only stall in the servo sense
[10:29:18] <ssi> the stepper will idle with no current, but if you push on the axis, it'll push back
[10:29:19] <_methods> well maybe i will try them out
[10:29:41] <ssi> _methods: see if you can run those drives in velocity mode... close the position loop in linuxcnc
[10:30:01] <CaptHindsight> why would you push on an axis?
[10:30:18] <pcw_home> no resonance
[10:30:52] <ssi> CaptHindsight: ever run a mill with a 1000lb head?
[10:30:58] <ssi> gravity pushes on it pretty good
[10:31:29] <CaptHindsight> but a stepper without the loop closed would also hold the load
[10:32:01] <pcw_home> SSI Thats where you want a velocity mode servo with a torque bias in the drive
[10:32:13] <_methods> they seem quite a bit cheaper than conventional servo
[10:32:15] <ssi> I'm not sure I've ever seen a drive with torque bias
[10:32:44] <skunkworks> (or counterbalance..)
[10:32:52] <ssi> I definitely dont' have a counterbalance
[10:32:54] <ssi> I have a brake instead
[10:32:56] <ssi> and that bitch is HEAVY
[10:33:02] <skunkworks> we have both
[10:33:14] <ssi> I think the sabre 1250 has a pneumatic counterbalance
[10:33:21] <pcw_home> yeah but an open loop stepper needs full current (HOT motors) to end up with lower stiffness
[10:34:05] * cpresser is about to setup a machine with closed loop stepper drives.
[10:34:16] <cpresser> because i need a lot of torque at very low speeds
[10:34:23] <ssi> I've kicked around the idea of converting my g0602 lathe to closed loop stepper
[10:34:36] <ssi> primarily because I want the homing repeatability of an index line
[10:34:47] <cpresser> i have a 1000ppr encoder on the leadscrew and a 50Nm stepperdrive
[10:34:59] <ssi> cpresser: what kind of machine?
[10:35:03] <CaptHindsight> it's interesting to hear about the tradeoffs
[10:35:19] <cpresser> ssi: singe axis machine. used for tensile strenght testing
[10:35:26] <cpresser> ~strength
[10:35:38] <ssi> ah
[10:35:41] <ssi> coupon-ripper? :D
[10:36:00] <CaptHindsight> retrofits vs designing a machine
[10:36:03] <cpresser> sorry, i dont understand 'coupon-ripper' :/
[10:36:08] <_methods> test coupons
[10:36:17] <_methods> it's a term for test "blanks"
[10:36:23] <ssi> yeah
[10:36:24] <cpresser> like specimen?
[10:36:27] <ssi> yep
[10:36:27] <_methods> speciment
[10:36:37] <ssi> I'ved one work like that in both sheet metal and composites for aircraft work
[10:36:41] <cpresser> ah okay. yes, it is :)
[10:36:45] <ssi> rivet up or bond up test coupons, then pull them til they fail :)
[10:36:51] <cpresser> but for glue-bonds.
[10:36:56] <ssi> yea
[10:37:33] <cpresser> similar to this one: http://img.directindustry.de/images_di/photo-g/material-prufmaschinen-tisch-72280-3036213.jpg
[10:38:02] <cpresser> but its a 1960 heavy duty setup i am doing a retrofit on. 200kN Force is the designgoal :)
[10:38:54] <SpeedEvil> That's a lot of apples.
[10:38:58] <ssi> building yours from scratch?
[10:39:25] <ssi> oh
[10:39:32] <ssi> never mind, I fail at reading comprehension :)
[10:44:16] <_methods> well seems like they are quite a bargain
[10:44:30] <_methods> you get servo performance for considerably less
[10:45:32] <ssi> _methods: you don't need those in particular, you can do it with any stepper that has an encoder on it
[10:45:57] <ssi> you can run linuxcnc stepgens in velocity mode, and then treat the stepgen like a velocity mode servo drive and close the position loop in linuxcnc
[10:46:26] <_methods> hmm
[10:46:39] <ssi> I have a model I made for 3d printing mounts that screw to the back of keling nema23 steppers in the extra tapped holes, and they provide a mount point for the AMT encoders that digikey sells for $25
[10:47:17] <_methods> i guess it would be cheaper then to just get some nema23 steppers and drop encoders on them
[10:47:22] <ssi> yeah
[10:47:26] <ssi> and then you can use whatever drive you want
[10:47:30] <_methods> yeah
[10:47:40] <_methods> maybe i'll just do that then
[10:47:45] <ssi> problem with what you linked is you're closing the loop in the drive, so you still have to feed it step/gen
[10:47:49] <ssi> great for mach guys
[10:47:54] <ssi> sorta limiting for us :)
[10:57:09] <CaptHindsight> http://sourceforge.net/p/emc/mailman/emc-users/thread/CAFq0N1wKNtusWnCgtyVqRspgjfPwdEJd_6O%2BWj3Xd7Sxzj5iMw%40mail.gmail.com/#msg32946095
[10:57:21] <CaptHindsight> [Emc-users] How to Migrate from Mach3 to LinuxCNC
[10:58:00] <ssi> ha!
[10:58:30] <_methods> hehe
[11:15:35] <Jymmm> Three games of the world series to be at AT&T park.. reserved parking is $220 to $550… tickets are being offered as high as $27,000
[12:28:19] <zeeshan> Connor: those double ballnuts got delivered today
[12:28:23] <zeeshan> interesting design
[12:28:29] <Connor> Cool
[12:32:03] <Connor> SSI: (11:44:11 PM) ssi: ISE is a pile of shit ?? What was that about ?
[12:32:09] <ssi> it was about ISE
[12:32:11] <ssi> which is a pile of shit
[12:32:17] <Connor> What is ISE ?
[12:32:17] <ssi> I thought that much was clear ;)
[12:32:24] <ssi> Xilinx's EDA software package
[12:32:27] <zeeshan> ssi did u get the drives?!?! :D
[12:32:33] <Connor> AH. Okay.
[12:32:40] <ssi> zeeshan: they're at my door, but I actually went to work today
[12:32:53] <zeeshan> :D
[12:33:12] <zeeshan> ive been dealing with labs all day
[12:33:17] <zeeshan> some of these students
[12:33:21] <zeeshan> man...
[12:33:26] <zeeshan> like how hard is to clean up a milling machine?
[12:33:37] <zeeshan> i'm not your mom whos going to clean it for you
[12:33:48] <zeeshan> hopefully the afternoon group is better
[12:37:54] <ssi> ugh 3ph power hurts my brain
[12:37:59] <ssi> Eric Hidle
[12:38:00] <ssi> that's the magic of three phase
[12:38:00] <ssi> so 60A is that you have 60A in a single loop, but for a balanced load, ZERO net current
[12:38:02] <ssi> it's fucking magical
[12:38:06] <ssi> Hence, the sum of the currents in the three conductors is always zero and the current in each conductor is equal to and in the opposite direction as the sum of the currents in the other two. Thus, each conductor acts as the return path for the currents from the other two.
[12:38:17] <ssi> Eric's my pet EE
[12:38:58] <zeeshan> that is assuming that all 3 conductors
[12:39:01] <zeeshan> are of equal resistance
[12:39:08] <ssi> why wouldn't they be? :P
[12:39:32] <TekniQue> ssi: yeah and if you have two phases loaded to an equal load, the neutral conductor will carry the same amperage
[12:39:44] <TekniQue> in a WYE system
[12:39:51] <FinboySlick> ssi: Depends on your definition of 'equal'. If you're going in strict mathematical terms, they never are.
[12:40:06] <ssi> well they're out of phase, so I guess they're not instantaneously equal
[12:40:09] <zeeshan> yea we always tried to balance the loads
[12:40:19] <TekniQue> they are of equal amplitude
[12:40:21] <ssi> like I said, 3ph power hurts my brain
[12:40:23] <FinboySlick> ssi: I meant the resistance.
[12:40:27] <ssi> oh
[12:40:27] <zeeshan> its not bad
[12:40:33] <zeeshan> use phasors!
[12:40:42] <ssi> not interested in nitpicking microohms :)
[12:41:16] <zeeshan> i think we considered anything +/-5%
[12:41:19] <zeeshan> as balanced
[12:42:13] <zeeshan> i took this course in 2nd year
[12:42:20] <zeeshan> "Electricity and motors"
[12:42:34] <zeeshan> theres where they started introducing polyphase circuits
[12:42:44] <zeeshan> and the concepts of reactance inductance and capacitance
[12:42:48] <zeeshan> i had no clue before that :P
[12:43:01] <Jymmm> LCR
[12:43:04] <ssi> reactance applies in singlephase circuits too
[12:43:23] <ssi> power factor is a very real thing in inductive systems like motors
[12:43:28] <zeeshan> youer right
[12:43:33] <zeeshan> it applies to all ac circuits
[12:43:40] <zeeshan> which is what that course was about
[12:43:42] <Jymmm> tank circuit?
[12:44:03] <ssi> uh oh, Jymmm's saying related words again!
[12:44:04] <zeeshan> ssi you think ull get to try the4 drives tonight
[12:44:05] <ssi> :D
[12:44:06] <zeeshan> <- me is excited
[12:44:09] <ssi> yeah probably
[12:44:29] <zeeshan> this chai guy from lmb2008
[12:44:32] <zeeshan> smokes for sure
[12:44:40] <zeeshan> his packages always smell like ciggarettes
[12:44:51] <ssi> gross
[12:47:00] <PoolShark__> ohai
[12:47:19] <ssi> hai
[12:48:14] <PoolShark__> ohai oops was root
[12:48:57] <PoolShark__> so I hear we're talking about polyphase stuff?
[12:49:00] <Jymmm> haha, irc protecting you from yourself =)
[12:57:26] <ssi> hehe
[13:06:22] <ssi> well PoolShark, you managed to murder the channel
[13:08:33] <Connor> It wa dead already. :)
[13:19:20] <ssi> "I do see WHY some go to Mach. They don't know or trust 'free
[13:19:20] <ssi> software'. An irrational fear, but real. So they would rather buy a
[13:19:20] <ssi> solution they 'can get support for' rather than having to get involved
[13:19:21] <ssi> in a community to know how to obtain real good, fast support."
[13:19:29] <ssi> lol, I don't trust commercial software
[13:19:32] <ssi> it rarely works well
[13:19:39] <ssi> (see also, "ISE is a pile of shit")
[13:24:03] <cradek> doesn't mach support come from the good will of your peers through a web forum?
[13:24:24] <ssi> I dunno, I never tried to get commercial support for my copy of mach
[13:24:49] <ssi> I got "support" the same way I get it from everything else: googling for other people with similar problems, so basically yes through a web forum :)
[13:30:20] <_methods> wasn't mach3 free at one point
[13:31:38] <MrHindsight> when it was part of EMC1?
[13:32:38] <DaViruz> ssi: what about the net current being zero? that is true for any circuit if you look at it like that, three phase or not
[13:32:38] <MrHindsight> I forget the history. EMC vs EMC2 and when the dev behind mach split off
[13:32:53] <ssi> DaViruz: true :P
[13:34:44] <_methods> i know about 10 years ago i was working at a place that had an old strippit turret punch with the hecc80 controller on it that i was going to attempt to retrofit
[13:35:12] <_methods> never did it but i remember mach being one of the possible things to run with
[13:35:17] <ssi> I have a diacro vt19 nc turret punch that I need to retrofit
[13:35:35] <_methods> man turret punch is the shiznit
[13:35:39] <_methods> but LOUD
[13:35:43] <ssi> heheh I'm sure
[13:35:48] <ssi> I just wish this one was bigger
[13:35:49] <_methods> your neighbors won't be happy to hear that
[13:35:57] <ssi> it's at the airport, not worried about neighbors :)
[13:36:11] <_methods> you're good to go then
[13:36:28] <ssi> it'll be nice for making airplane parts on
[13:36:29] <_methods> hardly a hobbiest thing though
[13:36:31] <ssi> but it's too small for anything serious
[13:36:35] <ssi> it's 28" by 19"
[13:36:37] <ssi> 19" throat
[13:36:37] <_methods> punches and dies are expensive
[13:36:48] <ssi> well the guy that gave it to me has 100 dies for it
[13:36:57] <_methods> that's a good thing
[13:37:03] <_methods> that much tooling would cost you a fortune
[13:37:04] <ssi> I don't actually own it at this point
[13:37:15] <ssi> he wants $3k in equity in it for the machine and all the tooling
[13:37:17] <_methods> you have a surface grinder?
[13:37:26] <ssi> I can either buy it from him at that price or if I convert it and sell it i owe him 3k
[13:37:30] <ssi> yeah
[13:37:31] <ssi> I have a reid 2C
[13:37:35] <_methods> you'll need one
[13:37:45] <_methods> sharpening punches is a full time job lol
[13:37:47] <ssi> heheh
[13:38:02] <_methods> keep em sharp and your life will be happy
[13:38:36] <ssi> I've never run one
[13:38:46] <_methods> it's another world
[13:38:48] <ssi> when I get the vmc retrofit done I may look at doing the press
[13:39:03] <_methods> what controller on it?
[13:39:08] <ssi> GE 550
[13:39:09] <ssi> punch tape :)
[13:39:18] <_methods> yeah that's what that hecc 80 had on it
[13:39:21] <ssi> I think it's steppers too
[13:39:24] <ssi> slo-syn round body steppers
[13:39:27] <_methods> bubble memory upgrade lol
[13:39:32] <ssi> heheh
[13:40:00] <_methods> those machines are beasts though
[13:40:14] <_methods> they don't make em like that anymore
[13:40:22] <ssi> for good reason! ;)
[13:40:31] <_methods> i hope you got at least 6" slab lol
[13:40:45] <ssi> man the punch is the least of my worries when it comes to the slab
[13:40:49] <ssi> I have that sabre 500 in there now
[13:40:53] <ssi> and it's about 9000lb empty
[13:40:57] <_methods> heheh
[13:41:06] <_methods> they like to pour thin slabs in hangars
[13:41:11] <ssi> yeah
[13:41:17] <_methods> a stiff breeze will blow an airplane away
[13:41:19] <ssi> well also I parked the 20,000lb forklift in there
[13:41:22] <ssi> and no issues
[13:41:51] <ssi> https://pbs.twimg.com/media/BzuZ7sSIYAAtckC.jpg:large
[13:41:54] <_methods> well honestly unless you're really pushin a vmc the slab should be fine
[13:41:55] <ssi> the punch press is in the back
[13:43:01] <_methods> oh that's a little guy
[13:43:06] <ssi> yeah it's small
[13:43:12] <ssi> I really wish it were bigger
[13:43:21] <ssi> vans makes the RV kits on big trumpf 2000 punches
[13:43:27] <_methods> well ignore all my slab warnings lol
[13:43:27] <ssi> they handle a 5x10 sheet
[13:43:35] <_methods> yeah tc5050
[13:43:39] <_methods> tc2000
[13:43:42] <_methods> they are bad ass
[13:43:45] <ssi> yeah, definitely
[13:43:50] <ssi> this one is a joke compared to those :)
[13:43:51] <_methods> trumpf makes an awesome punch
[13:44:05] <_methods> no turret either
[13:44:16] <_methods> they run their dies in a straight line
[13:44:18] <ssi> yeah
[13:44:25] <_methods> makes it so they can do some neat stuff
[13:44:28] <_methods> indexing punches and dies
[13:44:43] <ssi> yeah one thing I'm not sure about
[13:44:51] <ssi> I think the trumpf can rotate the punch and die
[13:44:59] <ssi> I dunno if this diacro can do that
[13:45:07] <ssi> it'd be annoying if the punch is only in one orientation always
[13:45:09] <_methods> i doubt that
[13:45:19] <_methods> most punches have indexed holders
[13:45:26] <_methods> so you put them in at a certain angle
[13:45:36] <_methods> but the trumpfs have cnc controlled punch and die indexing
[13:46:02] <ssi> so if you need a horizontal obround slot and a vertical obround slot, you have to have two of the same tool and index them differently
[13:46:09] <_methods> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mgRn0Gvacww
[13:46:14] <_methods> yeah
[13:46:29] <ssi> yeah man that's so cool
[13:46:40] <_methods> for hole intensive parts a turret punch will eat a laser for breakfast
[13:46:53] <ssi> heh hilariously, I have a laser
[13:46:55] <ssi> and a cnc plasma
[13:47:07] <ssi> I'm starting to look like a damn machine hoarder :P
[13:47:16] <_methods> well i'm talking strictly production
[13:47:21] <ssi> yeah I know
[13:47:35] <ssi> I'd much rather listen to a laser tho
[13:47:36] <ssi> :P
[13:47:41] <_methods> hell yeah
[13:47:45] <_methods> punches are hell
[13:48:08] <ssi> so the trumpf can do those big long cuts
[13:48:11] <ssi> like it's cutting those holes out
[13:48:19] <ssi> you think the diacro can do anything like that?
[13:48:21] <ssi> or is that wishful thinking
[13:48:53] <_methods> you don't have a turret on it so no
[13:48:58] <_methods> looks like that's a 1 station punch
[13:49:03] <ssi> no mine's a turret
[13:49:04] <ssi> 18 station
[13:49:06] <_methods> oh
[13:49:10] <_methods> that little thing?
[13:49:12] <ssi> yep
[13:49:18] <_methods> wow
[13:49:21] <ssi> it's not as little as it looks in the picture
[13:49:30] <ssi> that hangar's 37' deep, so it's 25' behind the mill
[13:49:31] <_methods> well if you have 18 stations then yah you can set them up
[13:49:31] <ssi> and the mill is BIG
[13:49:55] <_methods> but what that trumpf is doing i'm sorry to say your machine will never do lol
[13:49:59] <ssi> oh I know
[13:49:59] <ssi> heheh
[13:50:26] <_methods> it's even bending legs up on parts lol
[13:50:56] <_methods> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VPRtpd4tNTc
[13:51:02] <_methods> tc5000 with sheet loader
[13:51:46] <ssi> I still want to figure out how to do thin sheet metal on my laser
[13:52:02] <_methods> how many watts you got?
[13:52:03] <_methods> 80?
[13:52:05] <ssi> 120
[13:52:09] <_methods> oh
[13:52:11] <_methods> hmmm
[13:52:43] <_methods> well if you want to get crazy you could try throwing some oxygen in the cut
[13:52:48] <_methods> make liek a swirl ring
[13:52:51] <_methods> like on plasma
[13:53:02] <_methods> and try pushing some oxygen to bump the temp maybe
[13:53:08] <ssi> I'm wondering if there are coatings I can use to reduce reflectivity and start the cut
[13:53:18] <_methods> milk of magnesia
[13:53:24] <ssi> I messed around a little bit with some 28ga steel, and it etched a line that would catch a fingernail, but that was about it
[13:53:25] <_methods> old laser operator trick
[13:53:27] <ssi> hm
[13:53:37] <_methods> but 120 watts isn't much
[13:53:43] <ssi> I've been told thin stainless is even easier than mild
[13:53:49] <ssi> and what I really want to do is cut pcb stencils
[13:53:51] <_methods> yeah lasers love stainless
[13:53:52] <ssi> .005" stainless foil
[13:53:59] <_methods> i would think you could cut that
[13:54:03] <ssi> I need to try it
[13:54:14] <ssi> I cut a mylar stencil for my converter pcbs
[13:54:16] <ssi> and it came out ok
[13:54:19] <ssi> but I had to go VERY VERY FAST
[13:54:22] <ssi> on the lowest power setting
[13:54:26] <_methods> yeah
[13:54:27] <ssi> and it still was kinda melty
[13:54:33] <_methods> melt it up if you dont eh
[13:54:35] <ssi> yeah
[13:54:38] <ssi> it'll blow a big ol hole
[13:54:45] <ssi> and my big laser doesn't turn down much
[13:54:46] <_methods> so have you tried .005?
[13:54:57] <ssi> lowest power that'll trigger it is 8mA, which is like 25 or 30W
[13:54:59] <ssi> no, not yet
[13:55:06] <ssi> I need to get some stock
[13:55:16] <_methods> well .005" isn't much i'd think you could cut that
[13:55:26] <_methods> you can cut 1/2" wood with 120 watts?
[13:55:32] <ssi> yeah
[13:55:35] <ssi> with a 3" lens it cuts easiely
[13:55:41] <ssi> actually it only takes about 16mA
[13:55:45] <ssi> probably 50-60W
[13:55:57] <_methods> well i would think you should be able to cut .005" then
[13:55:59] <ssi> crazy thing about laser is turning up the power doesn't allow you to cut any thicker or faster
[13:56:09] <_methods> yeah
[13:56:29] <_methods> well personally if you want to cut anything more i think you need to add gas like oxygen
[13:56:43] <ssi> yeah possibly
[13:56:59] <_methods> and create piercing cycles
[13:57:12] <ssi> well what do you know about laser piercing?
[13:57:16] <ssi> I do piercing on the plasma of course
[13:57:25] <_methods> pecking and stuff
[13:57:29] <ssi> and I'm using sheetcam for the laser as well, and it has pierce delay
[13:57:31] <_methods> moving around
[13:57:34] <ssi> hm
[13:57:41] <_methods> it just depends
[13:57:47] <_methods> on the material and thickness
[13:58:02] <ssi> too much magic in laser :)
[13:58:10] <_methods> i would think that 120w on .005 you could just punch through
[13:58:17] <ssi> yeah I just haven't tried yet
[13:58:25] <_methods> well it's not magic it just depends on the machine and the material
[13:58:52] <_methods> but those little lasers weren't really made for metal
[13:58:56] <ssi> yeah I know
[13:59:08] <ssi> it's not even all that little :)
[13:59:14] <_methods> yeah
[13:59:20] <_methods> you got 48x48?
[13:59:25] <ssi> 24x48
[13:59:32] <ssi> and the tube is 65" long :P
[13:59:36] <_methods> yeah tha'ts what i want to do for my plasma
[13:59:42] <ssi> I have 48x48 plasma
[13:59:42] <_methods> 24x48 is good enough for me
[13:59:51] <_methods> 48x48 would be nice
[13:59:53] <_methods> that's half sheets
[13:59:56] <ssi> yep
[14:00:09] <_methods> hold it up there and rip it off heheh
[14:00:16] <ssi> heheh
[14:00:24] <ssi> I usually buy metal and have it sheared in half
[14:00:43] <_methods> they don't charge you to shear it?
[14:00:45] <ssi> place I get metal from charges $5 per shear, so it makes a $50 sheet cost $55, but significantly improves my handling :)
[14:00:54] <_methods> yeah
[14:00:58] <_methods> $5 go for it
[14:01:02] <ssi> yep
[14:01:50] <ssi> https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Bz3llrjIMAI5Ykf.jpg:large
[14:02:01] <ssi> cutting a batch of acrylic endcaps for a customer of mine
[14:02:12] <ssi> https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Bz3pFfnIEAAjxJd.jpg:large
[14:02:17] <ssi> and matching silicone gaskets :)
[14:03:11] <_methods> ah does it have shield gas?
[14:03:16] <ssi> yeah air assist
[14:03:26] <_methods> no shit yeah that's what you need
[14:03:34] <ssi> it'd be relatively easy to add o2 as a source
[14:03:37] <_methods> try puttin a small amount of oxygen in there
[14:03:43] <_methods> keep it low
[14:03:48] <_methods> you coudl blow shit up
[14:03:53] <ssi> well for that I'd need a mixing manifold or something
[14:03:58] <_methods> i'd mix it
[14:04:01] <_methods> and be careful
[14:04:10] <ssi> is it kosher to mix with shop air?
[14:04:15] <ssi> or would I need to run o2 bottle and air bottle
[14:04:17] <_methods> yeah
[14:04:26] <_methods> you should be fine on shop air
[14:04:33] <_methods> shop air already has some o2 in it
[14:04:39] <ssi> yeah, 21% :P
[14:04:40] <_methods> so not sure if it will really help
[14:04:47] <_methods> but you never know
[14:04:51] <_methods> heheh
[14:05:13] <_methods> like that mylar you could try running nitrogen through threre
[14:05:17] <_methods> to keep it cool
[14:05:19] <ssi> yeah
[14:05:41] <_methods> nitrogen is expensive though
[14:05:50] <_methods> so you may not want to use that
[14:06:06] <ssi> eh I've been meaning to get a nitrogen bottle anyway
[14:06:09] <_methods> i'm not sure how many hobby laser people experiment with using gasses on their cuts
[14:06:13] <ssi> for struts and tires on aircraft
[14:06:21] <_methods> i'm sure someone has done this somewhere before
[14:06:30] <ssi> probably
[14:06:31] <_methods> it's common with industrial lasers
[14:06:35] <ssi> there's not a lot of DIY lasers out there anyway
[14:06:42] <_methods> really?
[14:06:44] <ssi> most of the hobby lasers are some kind of chinese monstrosity
[14:06:48] <_methods> hehe
[14:06:55] <ssi> mine's completly scratch built
[14:07:07] <_methods> well shit i see they are sellin yags for like $40k
[14:07:10] <_methods> that can cut 1/4"
[14:07:14] <_methods> steel
[14:07:23] <ssi> damn jdh's company threw away a bunch of 5kw yags :(
[14:07:27] <ssi> still mad about that
[14:07:28] <_methods> oh yeah?
[14:07:37] <_methods> they sucked?
[14:07:40] <ssi> I dunno
[14:08:03] <ssi> I can't imagine a world in which a 5kw laser resonator is "no longer wanted"
[14:08:52] <_methods> hahah
[14:09:04] <_methods> they threw them away?
[14:09:07] <ssi> yeah.
[14:09:19] <SpeedEvil> you mean sold, or actually threw in the garbage?
[14:09:22] <_methods> who the hell does he work for lol
[14:09:33] <_methods> dept of defense lol
[14:09:34] <ssi> SpeedEvil: the way he said it, they actually threw them in the garbage
[14:09:39] <SpeedEvil> Jesus
[14:09:42] <ssi> like "they were laying out in our scrap pile but now they're not anymore"
[14:09:54] <_methods> wtf were they using yags for?
[14:10:14] <Connor> yags ?
[14:10:18] <_methods> yags had a horrible name for a long time
[14:10:33] <_methods> ytterium arsenide gallium or something like that
[14:10:33] <ssi> well from what I've read, yag is better for most metals
[14:10:43] <_methods> yag is catching back on
[14:10:48] <ssi> it's less power efficient
[14:10:52] <_methods> all the big laser makers are movign back to them
[14:10:56] <ssi> but 1um is better absorbed by metal
[14:11:07] <Connor> what does yag stand for ?
[14:11:10] <_methods> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nd:YAG_laser
[14:11:24] <_methods> neodymium-doped yttrium aluminium garnet
[14:11:33] <_methods> heheh not what i said earlier lol
[14:11:40] <ssi> hehe
[14:11:46] <ssi> yag is basically the same as ruby laser
[14:11:51] <ssi> just another more different kind of ruby :)
[14:12:32] <ssi> I wonder what the rod dimensions and excitation sources are like in a 5kw yag
[14:13:20] <Connor> I just love the idea of Ruby lasers..
[14:13:36] <_methods> i think alot of them are using led's now
[14:13:39] <Connor> I mean.. the SciFi of it and all.
[14:13:41] <ssi> yeah probably so
[14:13:54] <_methods> i think that's what one of the techs was telling me
[14:14:05] <ssi> actually I think maybe they're even using laser diodes
[14:14:16] <ssi> I imagine the coherency of a laser diode means less loss
[14:14:27] <_methods> yeah i have no idea anymore i used to pay attention to that stuff
[14:14:30] <ssi> the problem with flashtubes is you have to contain the whole assembly in a good reflector or else you lose a lot of the output
[14:14:35] <_methods> now i just don't care unless it stops cutting
[14:14:39] <ssi> heheh I hear ya
[14:14:54] <ssi> CO2 lasers seemed like magic when I first got into this, but now that I understand them, they're actually very very simple
[14:15:03] <_methods> yeah
[14:15:12] <_methods> pump light into chamber of exicitatory gas
[14:15:15] <_methods> bounce around
[14:15:18] <_methods> cut metal
[14:15:19] <_methods> lol
[14:15:24] <ssi> well co2 doesn't pump light in
[14:15:27] <ssi> it makes its own light
[14:16:04] <ssi> the high voltage through the tube excites nitrogen in the gas, and raises the co2 to a higher energy level, and when the co2 drops back down in level it gives off photons in a particular direction
[14:16:11] <ssi> then the bounce around etc
[14:16:12] <ssi> :)
[14:16:32] <ssi> but it jus works like a long-wavelength neon sign
[14:16:41] <ssi> plus the bouncing and the cutting and the nice lady
[14:17:05] <_methods> heheh
[14:18:18] <_methods> all i know is when they break it ends up costing a forklift full of money to fix
[14:18:32] <ssi> yeah :/
[14:18:48] <ssi> at least my little machine only uses $40 lenses from china
[14:18:58] <ssi> and doesn't have enough power to destroy one because it was dirty
[14:19:16] <_methods> oh you don't have to worry about poppin lenses?
[14:19:17] <_methods> that's good
[14:19:26] <ssi> hasn't happened yet
[14:19:32] <_methods> what are the lenses made of for those?
[14:19:35] <_methods> znse?
[14:19:38] <ssi> and I've had to pull it and clean it a few times due to not having the air assist running and getting smoked up
[14:19:41] <ssi> yeah znse
[14:19:45] <_methods> yeah
[14:19:50] <ssi> mirrors are all gold sputtered silicon
[14:19:51] <_methods> don't breathe that if you pop one
[14:19:59] <ssi> lol
[14:20:01] <_methods> wear a mask if you drop one too
[14:20:05] <ssi> good to know
[14:20:09] <_methods> yeah
[14:20:13] <_methods> highly carcinogenic
[14:20:25] <ssi> heh everything I deal with is carcinogenic
[14:20:28] <ssi> I'm not gonna live past 30
[14:20:33] <ssi> (shit I already am past 30)
[14:22:20] <_methods> heheh
[14:22:58] <_methods> http://www.2spi.com/catalog/msds/msds01815.html
[14:23:06] <_methods> Section 11: Toxicological Information
[14:23:07] <_methods> Summary: Considered to be highly toxic to humans and animals.
[14:23:12] <_methods> hehe
[14:23:17] <_methods> dont' eat it
[14:23:33] <ssi> it says "considered to be highly toxic"
[14:23:36] <ssi> an dthen "we don't know why"
[14:23:38] <ssi> hahah
[14:23:44] <_methods> haha yeah
[14:24:16] <_methods> all i know is that at every laser school i've been to they STRESS not to get into it
[14:24:25] <_methods> at all
[14:24:30] <ssi> yeah
[14:24:42] <ssi> I imagine it's fine in crystalline form, just powdered that's an issue?
[14:25:18] <_methods> well when a lens blows up it turns into smoke and dust
[14:25:23] <_methods> and if you drop one
[14:25:28] <_methods> it will like explode into dust
[14:25:30] <ssi> right
[14:25:54] <_methods> i mean it will make chunks but you can see the dust fly from it
[14:25:58] <ssi> sure
[14:26:09] <_methods> man i had a guy drop a brand new one right out of the box
[14:26:12] <_methods> i was fuckin livid
[14:26:18] <ssi> I'm sure!
[14:26:22] <_methods> he smoked the old lens
[14:26:23] <ssi> I bet yours were a lot more money than mine too
[14:26:27] <_methods> then drops the new one
[14:26:32] <_methods> $3k
[14:26:35] <ssi> ouch
[14:26:38] <_methods> yeah
[14:26:55] <ssi> mine are like $40
[14:27:00] <ssi> but I have to wait AGES to get them
[14:27:04] <ssi> I have four lenses
[14:27:05] <_methods> yeah but still if you have to order one
[14:27:11] <ssi> 1.5, 2, 3, and 4"
[14:27:14] <_methods> i always keep at least 3
[14:27:23] <skunkworks_> we cleaned our lenses with acetone and cotton balls.
[14:27:25] <ssi> the 4" is too long to effectively use
[14:27:27] <_methods> ours are 5" and 7.5"
[14:27:30] <ssi> skunkworks_: that's how I cleean mine too
[14:27:44] <_methods> yeah i use lens paper the cotton balls tend to scratch
[14:27:46] <ssi> _methods: what sort of depth of field do you get with those?
[14:27:50] <ssi> those'd be REALLY long on my machine
[14:27:53] <ssi> inches of DOF
[14:28:01] <_methods> well for us the 5" is for thin metal
[14:28:09] <_methods> and the 7" is like your all purpose lens
[14:28:22] <ssi> my 2" lens will almost but not quite cut 1/2" plywood reliably
[14:28:25] <_methods> we tend to leave the 7" in unless we're doing large runs of thin stuff
[14:28:33] <ssi> the 3" cuts 1/2" nicely, and 3/4" marginally
[14:28:43] <_methods> yeah i'd use my 3" for everything then
[14:28:46] <ssi> my 1.5" has a 30kw/mm^2 60um spot
[14:28:50] <_methods> and just play with your feed rates
[14:28:58] <_methods> and focus
[14:29:06] <ssi> well the problem I have is that my bed height is fixed
[14:29:13] <skunkworks_> we cut mostly 3/4 inch plywood for dieboards.
[14:29:16] <ssi> and I have limited focus travel range with the 3" lens
[14:29:20] <skunkworks_> 5 inch focal iirc
[14:29:28] <skunkworks_> been a while since I have done anything with it.
[14:29:31] <ssi> I need to rebuild the table with a traveling bed Z
[14:29:35] <_methods> yeah i'd put a micrometer head on that focal head
[14:29:43] <_methods> so you can get an adjustable height
[14:29:54] <ssi> I have adjustable height
[14:30:18] <ssi> see thing is, the short lens doesn't reach as far, but I use it with thinner materials
[14:30:25] <ssi> the long lens reaches too far, but I use it with thicker materials
[14:30:29] <ssi> so those two things are at odds
[14:30:47] <ssi> when I designed the machine, I designed it around a 2" lens and didn't plan on switching lengths
[14:30:53] <_methods> ahhh
[14:31:03] <_methods> but what does taht matter if you have an adjustable head?
[14:31:16] <ssi> because the distance between the bottom of the head and the bed is fixed
[14:31:27] <ssi> the lens carrier can move up and down
[14:31:29] <ssi> but not enough
[14:31:34] <_methods> ohhh
[14:31:40] <ssi> it's only like 2.5" of adjustment range
[14:31:40] <_methods> yeah i'd redesign that
[14:31:48] <_methods> or make the bed move
[14:31:51] <ssi> and obviously you can't really raise up the head, because the whole beam path would have to raise
[14:31:54] <ssi> so the bed has to move
[14:32:18] <_methods> looks like it would be easier to change the lens carriage
[14:32:24] <ssi> yeah probably
[14:32:29] <ssi> it's just going to require a lot of structural work
[14:32:48] <ssi> plus my bed contains my downdraft exhaust currently
[14:33:00] <ssi> I honestly might end up having to completely redesign the table frame
[14:33:04] <_methods> hahah it's alaways something
[14:33:11] <_methods> it can never be easy
[14:33:12] <ssi> so it's not a high priority right now :)
[14:33:35] <ssi> it's built out of extrusion, so it's not really the end of the world to scrap it and start over
[14:33:44] <ssi> can reuse practically all of it
[14:34:00] <ssi> also I built that machine in a room with a door too small to remove it
[14:34:07] <_methods> hehehhe
[14:34:09] <ssi> so at some point it's got to come to pieces anyway
[14:34:13] <_methods> never build a boat in the basement
[14:34:18] <ssi> yeah
[14:34:23] <ssi> I built an airplane in my garage
[14:34:26] <_methods> hahahah
[14:34:27] <ssi> so you'd think I'd know better at this point
[14:34:30] <ssi> :D
[14:35:05] <ssi> https://scontent-a-ord.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-frc3/v/t1.0-9/247629_10100172352152412_325887569_n.jpg?oh=dfb95e209831c79430f669400629e32f&oe=54F566B3
[14:35:43] <_methods> wow
[14:35:49] <_methods> yeah thats alot of work
[14:35:59] <_methods> you built the whole thing from scratch?
[14:36:49] <ssi> from a kit, yes
[14:37:00] <ssi> starts like this
[14:37:00] <ssi> https://www.vansaircraft.com/images/rv-7_standard_kit_lg.jpg
[14:37:08] <ssi> all from the aforementioned trumpf machines :)
[14:37:44] <_methods> good god that's a lot of rivets
[14:37:48] <ssi> yeah
[14:37:55] <ssi> folks have estimated around 10k rivets
[14:38:01] <_methods> jeebus
[14:38:53] <ssi> honestly the airframe is the easy part
[14:38:59] <ssi> now I'm into the hard stuff
[14:39:04] <ssi> systems, interior, finishing work
[14:39:11] <ssi> the devil's in the details
[14:39:17] <_methods> um yeah
[14:39:31] <ssi> I'm learning how to do upholstery work
[14:39:31] <_methods> like your life counts on it details lol
[14:39:31] <ssi> https://fbcdn-sphotos-c-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-xfp1/t31.0-8/1273558_10100489798108172_5430486084508652685_o.jpg
[14:39:38] <ssi> those are for my cherokee, as practice for the RV :)
[14:40:20] <ssi> heh there's not so many life threatening details
[14:40:34] <ssi> it's more like "make sure I don't have to climb under this panel once I rivet the topskins on" details :)
[14:40:42] <ssi> the airplane itself is quite solid
[14:41:04] <ssi> short of getting the fuel system right and the controls rigged correctly, there aren't many details that will surprise murder you
[14:41:24] <_methods> $90k just for a kit
[14:41:25] <_methods> ouch
[14:41:32] <ssi> where do you see that? :P
[14:41:33] <_methods> then you got all the other stuff too
[14:41:41] <ssi> rv7 kit is in the neighborhood of 22k
[14:41:44] <ssi> maybe a bit more these days
[14:41:45] <_methods> i'm lookin at the rv-14
[14:41:48] <ssi> oh
[14:41:54] <ssi> quickbuild I assume
[14:41:59] <_methods> no idea
[14:42:14] <_methods> oh that's completed
[14:42:19] <ssi> https://www.vansaircraft.com/public/kit-prices.htm
[14:42:33] <ssi> $21k before the finish kit, which I don't think they've released yet
[14:42:39] <ssi> probably around $28k for the RV14
[14:42:50] <ssi> $22,075 for RV7
[14:43:12] <_methods> not a poor mans hobby for sure
[14:43:18] <ssi> no, not really
[14:43:24] <ssi> but I'm not exactly rich
[14:43:25] <_methods> i'd have to sell one of my polo horses lol
[14:43:32] <ssi> I spread it out over many years
[14:43:34] <ssi> $6-7k at a time
[14:43:49] <ssi> lol polo horses can be a quarter million bucks
[14:44:09] <_methods> i odn't have any polo horses lol
[14:44:14] <ssi> hahah
[14:44:19] <ssi> my mom used to groom for polo
[14:44:21] <ssi> I grew up around them
[14:44:25] <ssi> personally I Hate horses :D
[14:44:42] <_methods> bastards will bite you
[14:44:44] <_methods> and kick you
[14:44:47] <ssi> and throw you
[14:44:51] <ssi> which is what really put me off them
[14:44:52] <ssi> when I was a kid
[14:46:02] <ssi> amazing thing about the kit planes though is that it unchains you from the part25 certification stuff
[14:46:14] <ssi> which means you can run modern avionics without spending hundreds of thousands of dollars
[14:46:21] <ssi> and the modern avionics have gotten very very good
[14:46:44] <ssi> this is what's in my rv
[14:46:44] <ssi> http://www.grtavionics.com/horizonhxr.html
[14:47:43] <ssi> https://fbcdn-sphotos-h-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-xpf1/t31.0-8/706207_956207496062_428749677_o.jpg
[14:47:56] <ssi> in my shiny carbon fiber panel
[14:47:57] <ssi> https://scontent-b-ord.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xpa1/v/t1.0-9/252382_953226929142_1486157906_n.jpg?oh=f329e2f2255dd1808161d6b9e2634536&oe=54F371E9
[14:52:08] <Connor> Wow. A Flat panel as a control in a plan.. still thought they used gauges and stuff..
[14:53:23] <ssi> nah glass is very common these days
[14:53:30] <ssi> it's just UNHOLY EXPENSIVE in the certified varieties
[14:53:47] <Connor> Is that a certified one?
[14:53:56] <ssi> nope, that's all experimental
[14:54:10] <ssi> comparable certified glass is about $100k
[14:54:12] <dirty_d> whats the deal with this error? error: Tk img::png not found!
[14:54:15] <ssi> I paid $7k for that setup
[14:54:31] <dirty_d> is there a separate tk png library?
[14:55:11] <jthornton> what's the error from?
[14:55:22] <Connor> Does it being experimental require you to have a different license, or special permit or something ?
[14:55:39] <ssi> you can only use experimental avionics in experimental aircraft
[14:55:45] <dirty_d> jthornton, ./configure
[14:56:07] <Connor> and, kit planes aren't experimental... ?
[14:56:12] <ssi> they are experimental
[14:56:14] <dirty_d> i dont see anything obvious in the package repos
[14:56:15] <ssi> that's why I can use it :P
[14:56:39] <ssi> but I can't, for instance, put a GRT EFIS in my cherokee, because it's certified
[14:56:40] <Connor> okay.. But, I couldn't put that in a Cessna
[14:56:43] <ssi> right
[14:56:52] <Connor> That's stupid.
[14:57:10] <jthornton> what are you building? master some branch or what?
[14:57:10] <ssi> perhaps
[14:57:15] <ssi> but that's how the government works
[14:57:32] <PCW> sudo apt-get install libtk-img
[14:57:47] <ssi> but here, you can buy this cessna 172SP which came with a g1000 glass cockpit
[14:57:48] <ssi> http://www.controller.com/listingsdetail/aircraft-for-sale/CESSNA-172S-SKYHAWK-SP/2014-CESSNA-172S-SKYHAWK-SP/1285159.htm
[14:57:52] <ssi> that's all certified
[14:58:00] <ssi> and only $360,000! what a bargain!
[14:58:23] <dirty_d> PCW, im on arch, I dont see any packages named anything like that
[14:58:41] <Connor> ssi: Yikes
[14:59:07] <ssi> Connor: the primary difference is who gets sued when someone dies
[14:59:21] <ssi> that's where all the cost difference lies
[14:59:25] <ssi> tort insurance and certification costs
[14:59:34] * jthornton doesn't even know what an arch is
[14:59:50] <ssi> arch linux is a distro that's popular on embedded boards
[15:00:06] <jthornton> ah ok
[15:00:28] <jthornton> must be that machinekit thing
[15:00:51] <ssi> I'm headign home before traffic ruins my life
[15:00:52] <ssi> bbiab :D
[15:01:56] <Connor> PCW Would it be hard to swap the P3 right angle connector on the 5i25 to a straight one so I that I would have access to it inside the enclosure?
[15:02:21] <PCW> Yes...
[15:03:06] <dirty_d> tkimg was the pkg i needed
[15:03:25] <dirty_d> it doesnt like that i have python3 now, lol
[15:03:29] <Connor> PCW Looking at it.. Looks like the solder flowed on both sides.. so, that would make it hard..
[15:04:35] <PCW> hard to remove without damaging the plated through holes
[15:04:52] <Connor> Yea.
[15:05:10] <PCW> designed for a standard closed box PC
[15:05:48] <PCW> The header can be used instead if you just need one
[15:05:55] <PCW> one connector
[15:06:47] <Connor> Yes, Which I'm planning on using.. but.. in the future, I'm going to need another encoder.. and I'll have to use the P3.. and trying to figure out easy way to access it without having to loop it back into the case.
[15:08:05] <PCW> use a 7I92 instead of 5I25 :-)
[15:08:31] <PCW> then you can mount it anywhere
[15:09:06] <Connor> Yea, well.. I didn't know how mature it's drivers were.. and I already have the 5i25.
[16:13:33] <ssi> back
[16:13:37] <ssi> time to check out these BE drives
[16:14:24] <pfred1> making progress over here
[16:14:59] <ssi> that's good to do
[16:17:04] <pfred1> has anyone written up a step by step tutorial for how to home the machine before cutting a job, or are we supposed to just stumble around figuring it out?
[16:17:17] <ssi> what do you mean?
[16:17:22] <ssi> homing should be as simple as "home all"
[16:17:27] <ssi> or are you talking about touching off your part?
[16:17:40] <pfred1> I don't have limit switches
[16:17:55] <pfred1> I might someday but not now
[16:18:17] <ssi> then home is wherever you hit the button :)
[16:18:17] <syyl_> limit switch != home switch
[16:18:33] <pfred1> syyl_ they can be
[16:19:17] <pfred1> ssi that's what I've been doing I've been kind of guessing my best as far as homing goes
[16:19:37] <ssi> in your case home doesn't really matter
[16:19:38] <pfred1> I'm thinking there has to be a better way though
[16:19:44] <ssi> you just won't have any sort of repeatability between homes
[16:19:48] <ssi> what sort of machine is it?
[16:19:55] <pfred1> a 3 axis router
[16:20:18] <syyl_> you try to figure out homing but dont have reference/limit switches?
[16:20:19] <syyl_> hmm!
[16:20:22] <pfred1> up, down, left, right, back, and forth
[16:20:43] <ssi> does that give you 30 lives?!
[16:20:54] <pfred1> I can't say as i follow
[16:21:00] <ssi> never mind... bad jokes are bad
[16:21:25] * pfred1 is a tough crowd
[16:21:29] <ssi> :)
[16:21:37] <pfred1> right about now anyways
[16:22:14] <syyl_> you could move your axis to a defined position via jog
[16:22:15] <pfred1> I just got the machine running and I'm drawing on paper still
[16:22:16] <syyl_> and hit home
[16:22:27] <syyl_> but thats
[16:22:28] <syyl_> hmm
[16:22:29] <pfred1> yeah that's what I've been doing
[16:22:40] <syyl_> not a good way
[16:22:48] <pfred1> I have marks on the machine for the centers and I center stuff except for the Z
[16:22:56] <pfred1> that I start on the work surface
[16:23:11] <syyl_> Oo
[16:23:23] <syyl_> i think you puzzle it with touching off
[16:23:23] <pfred1> it is all very experimental at this stage I'm looking for a more sane proceedure
[16:23:50] <syyl_> touching off is the procedure to get the zero of your workpiece
[16:23:50] <pfred1> yeah I can't figure out what touching off is about I suppose either
[16:24:04] <syyl_> homing is just to tell the machine where it is
[16:24:05] <ssi> well normally, homing sets up your machine coordinate system
[16:24:08] <ssi> the absolute coordinates
[16:24:09] <pfred1> I imagine it is something like that but how it works I haven't figured out yet
[16:24:16] <ssi> and then touching off sets up your part coordinate system
[16:24:26] <pfred1> I hit the button and a dialog box popped up with numbers in it
[16:24:42] <ssi> when you do normal G0 G1 etc, they act in terms of your current coordinate system, such as G54
[16:24:47] <ssi> probably you're in G54 by default
[16:24:57] <pfred1> how would I know?
[16:25:09] <syyl_> look in the mdi
[16:25:11] <ssi> on the MDI pane, F5
[16:25:16] <ssi> there's as "active g-codes" box
[16:25:18] <syyl_> there you will find the active g-codes
[16:25:20] <ssi> and G54 is likely in there
[16:25:23] <pfred1> OK I'll go look bbiab
[16:25:45] <syyl_> (i bet thats in the documentation ;) )
[16:26:09] <ssi> agh I left my box of tricks at the airport
[16:26:15] <_methods> or just go to mdi and put in g54
[16:26:22] <_methods> then you'll know fo sho
[16:26:46] <ssi> all my dsub housings and crimp pins
[16:26:47] <ssi> boooo
[16:32:46] <pfred1> OK I found a tab in Axis labeled MDI http://i.imgur.com/ZxSXUut.png
[16:33:44] <jthornton> pfred1, http://www.gnipsel.com/linuxcnc/g-code/index.html
[16:33:46] <ssi> yeah, see the G54 in the box?
[16:33:49] <pfred1> am I G92?
[16:34:02] <pfred1> in Active G-Codes?
[16:34:05] <ssi> yeah
[16:34:08] <pfred1> yes
[16:34:10] <ssi> and also in your DROs
[16:34:23] <pfred1> oh yeah all the way to the left
[16:34:35] <pfred1> I never noticed that before!
[16:36:41] <pfred1> jthornton this looks like what I'm loking for thanks!
[16:37:23] <pfred1> heh I figured out the marks on my own
[16:41:56] <jthornton> your welcome
[16:42:03] <pfred1> what is the dowel method?
[16:43:52] <jthornton> use a dowel of known size to set the Z offset by raising the tool slowly until the dowel just slides under
[16:44:07] <jthornton> then touch off the size of the dowel
[16:44:48] <Deejay> gn8
[16:46:56] <pfred1> ah ha
[17:24:38] <ssi> PCW: think it's worth bringing the current monitor pins of my servo drives to analog ins on the 7
[17:24:42] <ssi> 7i77
[17:25:13] <ssi> current scaling on that pin is 4A/V
[17:25:26] <ssi> can be reduced to 2A/V
[17:25:53] <PCW> Probably not too useful as they are probably bipolar (and 7I77 inputs are unipolar)
[17:25:55] <ssi> actually no I think it goes to 8A/V, which'd be less useful
[17:26:17] <ssi> hm it doesn't specify whether it's bipolar but that would make sense
[17:29:32] * MrSunshine desoldered a frekkin cpu today.... =)
[17:29:41] <MrSunshine> over 200 pins ... beat that! =)
[17:29:48] <ssi> ugh these KK pins are tape, and it's metal tape, stamped out of one piece
[17:29:53] <ssi> and they're impossible to cut free cleanly
[17:29:58] <MrSunshine> http://ibin.co/1eQVDTYhSwJq made a small tool for it :P
[18:40:38] <ssi> cincinnati cat40 pull studs are like unicorn blood :(
[19:24:05] <ssi> well this isn't going well :/
[19:29:24] <jdh> can you change it to something more common?
[19:29:55] <ssi> ha no
[19:44:12] <ssi> PCW: so I'm seeing 4.4V on the 5V encoder pins on the 7i77
[19:44:18] <ssi> is that directly from the PC power supply?
[19:44:58] <zeeshan> ssi
[19:45:00] <zeeshan> i got my VFD:D
[19:45:15] <zeeshan> this sumitomo drive actually looks nice
[19:45:39] <PCW> Yes so normally you should supply 5V externally and jumper the 7I77 and 5I25 for no cable power
[19:45:55] <ssi> yeah I think I might have to do that
[19:46:30] <PCW> Especially if you have a long cable/ high current encoders
[19:46:40] <ssi> I'm having all sorts of weird problems getting these new drives to work, and I suspect it's the hall effect inputs
[19:46:47] <ssi> ok so here's a question for you
[19:46:53] <ssi> teh drives have a 6V supply to run hall sensors
[19:46:58] <ssi> and it measures 6.3V
[19:47:08] <ssi> think that'd be kosher to use to drive the encoders, at least for the short term?
[19:47:11] <ssi> or is that dangerous
[19:47:40] <PCW> Not good because encoders may use TTL parts
[19:47:52] <ssi> ok
[19:55:27] <ssi> well, that might be one of my problems
[19:55:35] <ssi> NONE of these cables have continuity at all
[19:55:51] <zeeshan> maybe a break?
[19:55:57] <zeeshan> :D
[19:55:58] <ssi> no, it's bad termination
[19:56:08] <zeeshan> dude
[19:56:12] <zeeshan> dont stress about your spindle!
[19:56:15] <zeeshan> try your amc drives!! :D
[19:56:16] * zeeshan hides
[19:56:19] <ssi> that's what I'm working on
[19:56:22] <zeeshan> oh
[19:56:26] <zeeshan> they pwoer up?
[19:56:33] <ssi> yes
[19:56:38] <zeeshan> :D: :D:D:D
[19:56:39] <zeeshan> GOOD
[19:56:41] <zeeshan> !!!
[19:56:51] <zeeshan> so do you just give it power
[19:56:56] <zeeshan> without any other wires conencted?
[19:57:06] <zeeshan> to check if its good or nfg
[19:57:12] <ssi> it's not that easy
[19:57:14] <zeeshan> or will that fault it
[20:01:48] <zeeshan> im about to power up my spindle motor for the first time
[20:01:49] <zeeshan> oh noes
[20:01:50] <zeeshan> :D
[20:12:33] <zeeshan> i hope i dont blow up this 12 awg wire
[20:12:44] <zeeshan> to temporarily power up the spindle
[20:12:45] <zeeshan> :/
[20:14:39] <ssi> you gunna cut steel with it during your test run?
[20:14:45] <zeeshan> haha no
[20:14:49] <ssi> then you'll be ok
[20:14:50] <zeeshan> just wanna see it spin
[20:14:58] <zeeshan> to check for noises and shit
[20:15:13] <zeeshan> can i help with your servos
[20:15:15] * zeeshan wants to see em run
[20:15:18] <ssi> yeah
[20:15:21] <ssi> come wire the other two
[20:15:24] <zeeshan> haha
[20:15:26] <ssi> finish my verilog
[20:15:27] <zeeshan> you just need to do one!
[20:15:28] <zeeshan> to check
[20:15:37] <zeeshan> lol i dont know vhdl or verilog
[20:15:42] <zeeshan> thats for eelectrical engineers!
[20:15:45] <zeeshan> .......and ssi
[20:15:46] <zeeshan> :)
[20:16:08] <ssi> I'm an everything engineer
[20:16:20] <zeeshan> i learned something new today
[20:16:30] <zeeshan> the lock nut that holds collets (ER series)
[20:16:34] <Tom_itx> i try to do that every day
[20:16:44] <zeeshan> actually releases the taper lock
[20:16:46] <zeeshan> when you try to loosen it
[20:16:49] <ssi> yes
[20:16:54] <ssi> cause the nut has an offset ring in it
[20:16:57] <zeeshan> this student today didnt lock it into the lock nut
[20:16:58] <ssi> that the groove of the collet snaps into
[20:17:07] <zeeshan> so the collet was jammed in there
[20:17:07] <zeeshan> haha
[20:17:09] <Tom_itx> oops
[20:17:20] <zeeshan> hammer and aluminum worked
[20:17:40] <zeeshan> Tom_itx: me too man
[20:17:42] <zeeshan> i like learning
[20:17:48] <zeeshan> even if i know how to do something a certain way
[20:17:53] <zeeshan> i try to see how others do the same thing
[20:17:59] <zeeshan> their way may be better, easier, etc
[20:18:36] <zeeshan> damn it i cant find my 12awg 3 phase soow cable
[20:18:45] <Tom_itx> problem these days is my fifo buffer may be full
[20:18:53] <ssi> Tom_itx: I hate that
[20:18:58] <Tom_itx> heh
[20:18:58] <ssi> getting old sucks
[20:19:06] <zeeshan> im about to hook up the vfd
[20:19:07] <zeeshan> using this wire:
[20:19:21] <zeeshan> romex
[20:19:29] <zeeshan> 14 gauge
[20:19:30] <zeeshan> haha
[20:19:38] <Tom_itx> nobody uses romex anymore
[20:19:43] <ssi> thinner than I'd like, but again unloaded it'll probably be fine
[20:19:58] <zeeshan> im going through the manual too
[20:20:04] <zeeshan> this thing has a lot of terminals on the power side
[20:20:27] <zeeshan> more than the typical L1 L2 L3 , r s t
[20:23:38] <ssi> k well
[20:23:44] <ssi> in torque mode it's working
[20:23:47] <ssi> in velocity mode it's running away
[20:23:56] <zeeshan> NICE
[20:24:06] <zeeshan> you bought these from the same guy right?
[20:24:57] <ssi> I don't think so
[20:25:01] <ssi> I think you got them somwhere else
[20:25:13] <zeeshan> o
[20:30:36] <PCW> velocity mode will run away if the encoder counts the wrong way
[20:32:11] <ssi> I think due to the low 5v bus it wasn't counting correctly
[20:32:14] <ssi> I tried both directions
[20:34:23] <ssi> hah so I added a lab supply to 7i77 for a proper 5v supply
[20:34:27] <ssi> and now the amp won't enable at all
[20:34:27] <PCW> if you supply external 5V power to the 7I77 make sure you change the cable power jumpers on both the 7I77 and the 5I25
[20:35:14] <ssi> yeah I powered it up with only the jumper on the 5i25 flipped and it wasn't happy
[20:35:18] <ssi> I hope I didn't hurt something
[20:35:42] <ssi> oh I bet the enables aren't working because it's part of the analog processor, which is sserial
[20:35:46] <ssi> and I need to restart halrun since it bounced
[20:35:47] <ssi> or something
[20:36:13] <ssi> yeah that was it
[20:37:04] <ssi> hah well
[20:37:07] <ssi> that drive was good
[20:37:09] <ssi> now it's on fire
[20:37:19] <PCW> thats not so good
[20:37:23] <ssi> i think that means it's time to quit for the night
[20:37:33] <pfred1> I felt that way earlier
[20:37:49] <CaptHindsight> the fire is not a feature?
[20:37:55] <ssi> don't think so
[20:38:15] <pfred1> FET = Fire Emitting Transistor
[20:39:09] <pfred1> well, I think my basic design is sound I just have to rebuild it using better materials
[20:40:26] <ssi> so much for input fuses, eh
[20:40:39] <pfred1> after I blew up a PSU here I added a fuse
[20:41:02] <Jymmm> FET = Fucked Electron Transit.
[20:41:36] <pfred1> on the plus side my machine seems to run better off the unregulated transformer
[20:41:51] <Jymmm> pfred1: stepper?
[20:41:54] <pfred1> yes
[20:42:04] <Jymmm> Yeah, would expect it to.
[20:42:06] <pfred1> unregulated I get another 1.6 volts
[20:42:21] <pfred1> it makes a difference
[20:42:30] <ssi> ah well the fuse did actually blow
[20:42:33] <ssi> that must be what put the fire out
[20:42:56] <Jymmm> pfred1: regulated and BEMF kinda clash.
[20:43:35] <pfred1> Jymmm it may have I added a big cap at my power distribution block to soak up whatever is going on
[20:43:59] <pfred1> well, not too big, but big enough
[20:44:19] <Jymmm> pfred1: Did you ever see Mariss stepper paper?
[20:44:26] <pfred1> probably
[20:44:30] <Jymmm> k
[20:44:41] <pfred1> I've read a few things he's written
[20:45:01] <pfred1> my drives aren't on par with his but hey, they only cost me $10 to make
[20:45:36] <Jymmm> I owuldn't mind a pure smfr, but hard to find cheaply
[20:45:42] <Jymmm> xmfr*
[20:46:00] <pfred1> I got the xformer I'm using out of a PDP 11/34
[20:46:08] <Jymmm> ?
[20:46:27] <pfred1> it was the step down transformer in a mini computer
[20:46:32] <Jymmm> ah
[20:46:38] <pfred1> size of a closet
[20:46:42] <Jymmm> heh
[20:46:50] <pfred1> I ganged up the two 13.5V windings in it
[20:46:55] <pfred1> 13,4
[20:47:07] <Jymmm> I can find the voltages, just not the VA
[20:47:16] <pfred1> this thing is like a cinder block
[20:47:22] <Jymmm> and they NEVER pur markings on them, bastards
[20:47:25] <pfred1> it is a huge xformer
[20:47:54] <pfred1> well one thing you have to worry about is when you rectify, then filter your volts goes up to peak
[20:48:03] <pfred1> as opposed to RMS
[20:48:31] <pfred1> so you always end up with more DC volts than the xformer is AC rated to put out
[20:48:53] <pfred1> plus xformers seem to run a bit hot anyways compared to their ratings
[20:49:03] <pfred1> they give you value for your buck so to speak
[20:49:43] <Jymmm> Lovely http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada-post-ends-home-delivery-today-for-thousands-1.2805833
[20:50:10] <CaptHindsight> ok, show of hands, who would wear these? http://www.3ders.org/articles/20141020-morgenrot-3d-printed-eyewear-wins-innovation-award.html
[20:50:49] <Jymmm> martiGra?
[20:50:50] <pfred1> CaptHindsight Elton John
[20:51:20] <pfred1> I have seen very few people that actually do anything useful with 3D printers
[20:51:20] <ssi> CaptHindsight: hipsters
[20:51:30] <ssi> pfred1: I do useful things with them occasionally
[20:51:37] <CaptHindsight> I guess they are not shooting for understated elegance
[20:51:39] <ssi> a handful of the parts of my laser cutter are 3d printed
[20:51:46] <ssi> tube mounts, mirror mounts, endstops
[20:53:14] <pfred1> I need to iron the bugs out of my machine
[20:53:24] <pfred1> I guess it is to be expected
[20:53:33] <ssi> hey at least yours isn't full of fire
[20:53:42] <pfred1> ssi not yet
[20:53:56] <pfred1> the possibility definitely exists though
[20:54:29] <pfred1> I made all of my own electronics
[20:54:56] <pfred1> I have to say it is the only part of my machine I am completely satisfied with right now
[20:55:06] <pfred1> well, the Z axis seems to be working good too
[20:55:21] <pfred1> but the X, and Y linear guides leave much to be desired
[20:56:16] <pfred1> I think I know of a way I can rectify it but it is going to be a big job
[20:56:38] <pfred1> oh well, I wanted to see if I could take the easy way out
[21:00:58] <pfred1> nothing worthwhile is ever easy I suppose
[21:11:32] <pfred1> so, does anyone want to check out my elcheapo CNC?
[21:14:51] <gennro> sure
[21:15:16] <pfred1> http://i.imgur.com/T8GwQJ8.jpg
[21:16:06] <pfred1> skate bearings deluxe!
[21:16:28] <gennro> I see that, i'm new to the diy cnc
[21:16:50] <pfred1> my whole machine didn't cost me more than $300 to build
[21:17:02] <gennro> how well does it work?
[21:17:10] <pfred1> in the world of CNC that is pretty cheap
[21:17:30] <pfred1> well, I need to put some hard facing on the X, and Y linear guides
[21:17:34] <gennro> i'm wanting to build a laser engraver myself
[21:17:42] <pfred1> I figure screwing some angle iron there should do it
[21:18:05] <pfred1> well laser is easy because you don't need to move a big mass, or exert pressure
[21:18:21] <pfred1> light is exactly that it is light
[21:18:47] <gennro> I plan on basing mine off this guys http://der-frickler.net/technik/lasergravierer#lightbox[gal-b657ba3df9000d1dea2876c031fc]/1/
[21:18:49] <pfred1> light is very light in fact
[21:18:58] <gennro> yup
[21:19:09] <pfred1> you can run NEMA 17s
[21:19:22] <pfred1> heck you could probably pull steppers out of floppy drives
[21:19:41] <gennro> lol, yeah I have 1 nema 17 already
[21:19:51] <pfred1> yeah 30 oz/in more than enough
[21:20:20] <gennro> use some easy drivers for the stepper driver, arduino uno running grbl
[21:20:32] <pfred1> this is LinuxCNC
[21:20:42] <pfred1> we don't play with gerbils here
[21:20:52] <gennro> yeah I know, but every other cnc channel is dead
[21:21:08] <pfred1> I donno used PCs you can't beat the price
[21:21:21] <pfred1> I got the one I'm running LInuxCNC on for $5 at a thrift store
[21:22:00] <gennro> you need a parallel port correct?
[21:22:11] <pfred1> yeah those cards cost another $20
[21:22:39] <pfred1> the PC has a pp in it but I didn't want to risk it with my homebrew electronics it probably would have worked fine though
[21:23:04] <pfred1> my buffered parallel port break out board works pretty good
[21:23:09] <gennro> gotcha
[21:23:43] <pfred1> it draws almot nothing off the parallel port then gives me 25ma an output
[21:23:47] <gennro> Was thinking about using a raspberry pi as a controller, but my programming isn't that great
[21:24:10] <pfred1> well, I boosted it for my dual axis drives I added another buffer IC to give me 50ma
[21:24:53] <pfred1> my optical isolators draw 12ma each and I figured that was too close to the IC limit
[21:25:07] <pfred1> so for 25 cents I threw in another chip
[21:26:07] <pfred1> you can just run one of those imported TB6560 boards
[21:26:21] <pfred1> but the documentation that comes with those things is less than worthless
[21:26:32] <gennro> so pretty much it uses the parallel port as a GPIO to interface with the stepper drivers, and etc?
[21:27:17] <pfred1> yeah you see the big beige data cord running int othe front of my machine?
[21:27:28] <gennro> yup
[21:27:29] <pfred1> it is right over the keyboard kind of
[21:27:34] <pfred1> that is a parallel port cable
[21:28:20] <pfred1> http://www.instructables.com/id/Parallel-Port-Break-Out-Board-BOB/
[21:28:24] <CaptHindsight> looks like a spruce gantry mill
[21:28:30] <pfred1> I wrote an article about my break out board
[21:28:55] <CaptHindsight> I'd like to fashion one from bubinga or purpleheart
[21:29:20] <pfred1> CaptHindsight I used a piece of plywood I found on the side of the road and 2x4 studs
[21:29:29] <pfred1> the pine the bearings are digging into it
[21:29:38] <pfred1> I need to add some angle iron there
[21:30:03] <CaptHindsight> pfred1: I am trying to see what actually moves on your machine
[21:30:42] <pfred1> well the X axis is the easiest to see there are two black stepper motors screwed to that front board
[21:31:08] <pfred1> they're connected to a pair of 1/2x10 TPI acme threaded rods
[21:31:31] <pfred1> then I made HDPE nuts for those and they are connected to the Y axis gantry
[21:31:34] <gennro> thanks for the info so far pfred1, i'll read more into linuxcnc, and skip the arduino setup, cause I plan on building a cnc for doing wood if I can get the hang of it
[21:32:05] <pfred1> gennro yeah my ultimage goal is to do decorative wood routing
[21:32:14] <pfred1> like signs and designs
[21:32:27] <gennro> thats what I would like to do
[21:32:52] <pfred1> I like to woodwork but loking at what I do objectively it just doesn't pop
[21:32:54] <gennro> but I figure a small laser engraver would be a place to get started and cheap
[21:33:35] <CaptHindsight> are the blue ~1x1's the linear cam bearings?
[21:34:17] <pfred1> maybe I can show another picture and you can see how it works?
[21:34:20] <pfred1> let me find the link
[21:34:59] <pfred1> http://i.imgur.com/lLAoq.jpg
[21:35:17] <CaptHindsight> I see
[21:35:21] <pfred1> cool
[21:35:38] <pfred1> I need to put some angle where the bearings contact
[21:36:03] <pfred1> my design is a bit more elaborate than a 3 motor but I can use cheaper motors and drives with it
[21:36:10] <pfred1> a lot cheaper
[21:36:34] <pfred1> there is actually a lead on the other side
[21:36:38] <CaptHindsight> is the challenge to see how little you can spend?
[21:36:46] <pfred1> yeah pretty much
[21:36:53] <pfred1> anyone can go out and spend thousands
[21:37:09] <pfred1> I was shooting for $200 but I ran over that a bit
[21:37:37] <CaptHindsight> and what is the goal for accuracy, repeatability, durability etc?
[21:37:53] <pfred1> 200 IPM for $200
[21:38:14] <CaptHindsight> +/- 1/4"
[21:38:52] <pfred1> well once i get the linears straightened out I think it should be fairly accurate
[21:39:41] <CaptHindsight> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8PSG2al1Sus Homebuilt DIY pipe Gantry CNC
[21:41:44] <pfred1> CaptHindsight this is the fractal example that comes with LinuxCNC http://i.imgur.com/ATX29wd.jpg
[21:42:31] <pfred1> my machine drew that with a pencil in it
[21:43:32] <pfred1> it ain't perfect but it is better than I can do
[21:43:59] <gennro> looks good for 300 bucks, better then what I have
[21:44:23] <pfred1> like I said once I put some steel up on those rails I think I'll be onto something
[21:45:02] <pfred1> the wood has compressed about an 1/8" each rail so that added a lot of slop
[21:46:06] <pfred1> CaptHindsight heh I've seen this video'
[21:47:01] <pfred1> this guy must have bought a couple 100 packs of skate bearings
[22:11:27] <Rab> Wow @ video, why didn't the guy use thicker pipe for the rails? That looks about as rigid as a spring mattress.
[22:15:24] <ssi> my favorite thing in the world is when ISE flips its shit and starts popping up thousands of "unexpected error" messages
[22:31:16] <pfred1> Rab people seem to have a lot of deflection issues with pipe even fairly large diameter pipe
[22:31:56] <Rab> pfred1, I can imagine so.
[22:32:08] <pfred1> it is actually worse than I imagine
[22:32:24] <pfred1> I'd think pipe would be more rigid than it seems to be
[22:41:17] <ssi> pfred1: it's very rigid in tension or compression, but not so much shear
[22:42:19] <pfred1> ssi I've seen people use 3" diameter pipe across 3 feet and complain about it deflecting on them
[22:42:59] <pfred1> to see it it looks like more than enough to me
[22:43:49] <tjtr33> diy cheap hipower microscope NasaTechBriefs http://video.techbriefs.com/video/High-Powered-3D-Printed-Microsc;Electronics-Computers
[22:46:37] <ssi> pfred1: pipe welded to angle iron is a lot stiffer
[22:46:54] <ssi> hell just angle iron is stiffer if it's loaded correctly
[22:48:48] <pfred1> I have to get some angle iron for my machine
[22:49:38] <pfred1> mo' money!
[23:42:34] <Connor> http://www.wbir.com/story/news/local/2014/10/20/tennessee-death-row-inmate-dies-of-natural-causes/17639399/ Pisses me off.. I wanted to push the button to do this guy in..
[23:43:38] <ssi> :/
[23:43:58] <Connor> ssi: Murdered my Uncle. :(
[23:44:03] <ssi> yeah I sorta put that together
[23:44:43] <CaptHindsight> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wWNgL3xAj4c cutting and forging on a lathe
[23:46:37] <Connor> DANG it. Execution date scheduled for May 12, 2015
[23:47:08] <ssi> that sucks a lot