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[00:28:34] <MacGalempsy> good evening
[00:38:44] <zeeshan|2> monring
[00:38:47] <zeeshan|2> anyone alive!
[00:40:27] <zeeshan|2> flickr
[00:40:29] <zeeshan|2> er
[00:43:07] <zeeshan|2> so the Z axis servo is 2.17kW = 2.9hp!
[00:43:12] <zeeshan|2> https://www.flickr.com/photos/128539016@N05/14912262293/
[02:04:31] <Deejay> moin
[02:05:51] <MacGalempsy> hi Deejay
[02:09:21] <MacGalempsy> how is the grass packaging machine coming along?
[09:38:13] <ssi> morn
[10:02:56] <zeeshan|2> hi
[10:03:12] <zeeshan|2> ssi halp!
[10:03:12] <zeeshan|2> :D
[10:04:06] <archivist> aw
[10:04:19] <archivist> dont panic dont panic!
[10:04:23] <zeeshan|2> i have to
[10:04:25] <zeeshan|2> :-(
[10:04:28] <zeeshan|2> cause this manual makes no sense to me
[10:04:42] <zeeshan|2> http://02476.info/Bosch/Bosch%20amplifier%20TR15%2025.pdf
[10:04:44] <zeeshan|2> page 4
[10:04:48] <zeeshan|2> under "power module"
[10:04:55] <zeeshan|2> "connecting with AC supply"
[10:05:09] <zeeshan|2> my amplifier is the "230V" version..
[10:05:20] <zeeshan|2> so it says 3x96/165V +/- 10%
[10:05:25] <zeeshan|2> what is that supposed to mean!
[10:06:38] <archivist> that pdf seems broken here
[10:06:43] <__rob2> http://www.mouser.com/ds/2/38/AV02-3147EN-186735.pdf
[10:06:49] <__rob2> can anyone tell me how they can get 17 bits out of that ?
[10:06:53] <__rob2> says 2048 CPR
[10:07:09] <__rob2> paired with
http://www.mouser.com/ds/2/38/AV02-3258EN+DS+AEAT-9000_Basic+26Apr2012,0[1]-252824.pdf
[10:08:21] <pcw_home> The encoder electronics interpolates
[10:08:34] <archivist> multiply by 4 if you look at edges and quadrature
[10:09:19] <__rob2> so one count 'counts't as 4 edges ?
[10:09:27] <pcw_home> so 2048 CPR = 11 bits and 6 bit interpolation gets you to 17
[10:09:28] <__rob2> I assume each edge was a count
[10:10:23] <pcw_home> No edges
[10:10:33] <pcw_home> sine/cosine
[10:10:36] <archivist> there is a sine the encoder uses to interpolate
[10:11:05] <zeeshan|2> pcw_home: could you help suggest what components i need to order from mesanet
[10:11:08] <__rob2> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rotary_encoder#mediaviewer/File:Quadrature_Diagram.svg one CPR is as in this diagram, no ?
[10:11:32] <__rob2> so each edge is a count ?
[10:11:59] <pcw_home> a 2048 CPR encoder has 8192 edges per turn
[10:12:09] <__rob2> ohhh, really
[10:12:25] <pcw_home> (or 2048 sine/cosine cycles)
[10:12:45] <archivist> zeeshan|2, I keep getting differing sizes for that pdf
[10:12:52] <zeeshan|2> archivist: lol what do you mean
[10:13:09] <zeeshan|2> https://www.flickr.com/photos/128539016@N05/15536061122/
[10:13:10] <zeeshan|2> there
[10:13:10] <__rob2> so then you actually can get 4x the accuracy in terms of degrees then the rated CPR
[10:13:11] <zeeshan|2> thats the page
[10:13:50] <pcw_home> yes with quadrature (but that is not a quadrature encoder)
[10:14:03] <zeeshan|2> https://www.flickr.com/photos/128539016@N05/15349621200/
[10:14:08] <zeeshan|2> heres another detailed page about it
[10:14:24] <pcw_home> the AEAT-9000 is a SSI interfaced absolute encoder
[10:14:42] <pcw_home> (and a bargain for that resolution)
[10:15:03] <zeeshan|2> pcw_home i forgot if you guys offer a board for resolver to digital
[10:15:04] <zeeshan|2> conversion
[10:15:16] <pcw_home> Yes the 7I49
[10:16:44] <archivist> zeeshan|2, I think they basically expect you to connect to 3 phase, but you may have to juggle things a bit for single
[10:16:57] <zeeshan|2> archivist: even if its 3 phase input
[10:17:02] <zeeshan|2> im confused why it says 96/160?
[10:17:06] <zeeshan|2> what kind of 3 phase input is that!! :P
[10:17:47] <zeeshan|2> then it says this
[10:17:49] <zeeshan|2> "OnIy one voltage is required for the current supply to the amptifier, since the logic is supplied via a power supply from the D.C. link."
[10:17:53] <zeeshan|2> one voltage?!?
[10:18:03] <archivist> root two times 110/115/120 is close to 160 I suppose
[10:18:14] <zeeshan|2> isn't it root 3
[10:18:18] <zeeshan|2> for line to neutral
[10:18:21] <zeeshan|2> in wye
[10:18:26] <archivist> the input converts to a single DC rail
[10:19:14] <zeeshan|2> i'm trying to power this board
[10:19:16] <zeeshan|2> to see if it's even alive
[10:19:26] <zeeshan|2> !
[10:19:32] <ssi> zeeshan|2: wat
[10:19:37] * archivist stands well back
[10:19:40] <zeeshan|2> ssi i'm confused with my shit
[10:20:03] <zeeshan|2> on how to power up the servo amplifier
[10:20:45] <ssi> have a pic of the manual page?
[10:21:15] <zeeshan|2> https://www.flickr.com/photos/128539016@N05/15536061122/
[10:21:17] <zeeshan|2> thats one page
[10:21:22] <zeeshan|2> https://www.flickr.com/photos/128539016@N05/15349621200/in/photostream/
[10:21:23] <zeeshan|2> thats another page
[10:21:29] <zeeshan|2> i dunno why the pdf isn't working for you guys
[10:21:33] <archivist> item 2 on second page
[10:22:03] <zeeshan|2> i mean worse comes to worse
[10:22:12] <archivist> because the download place is timing out/ not delivering the full file
[10:22:14] <zeeshan|2> i understand that i can put 240V DC between L+ and L-
[10:22:25] <zeeshan|2> oh, i can upload it to another website
[10:23:16] <zeeshan|2> http://www.docdroid.net/jcmh/bosch-amplifier-tr15-251.pdf.html
[10:23:19] <zeeshan|2> does that work?
[10:23:30] <ssi> zeeshan|2: it clearly wants 1.75 volts
[10:23:33] <ssi> it's a math problem
[10:23:37] <zeeshan|2> 1.75volts?
[10:23:39] <zeeshan|2> wut
[10:23:40] <ssi> 3 * 96/165 is 1.75 :D
[10:23:43] <zeeshan|2> ROPFL
[10:23:44] <zeeshan|2> hgahaha
[10:24:13] <zeeshan|2> i'm thinking maybe i can take out the entire heavy ass servo amplifier
[10:24:19] <CaptHindsight> pdf downloaded
[10:24:24] <zeeshan|2> and see how the wires pads trace
[10:24:26] <zeeshan|2> on the pcb board
[10:24:39] <zeeshan|2> cause where L+ and L- go
[10:24:46] <ssi> why not just replace the drives with something modern
[10:24:46] <zeeshan|2> should be after rectified ac input.
[10:24:53] <zeeshan|2> ssi like what?
[10:25:00] <ssi> are they brush motors or brushless?
[10:25:04] <zeeshan|2> brush
[10:25:13] <zeeshan|2> its brush motors with resolvers
[10:25:15] <ssi> there's AMC brush drives all over ebay for cheapcheap
[10:25:34] <ssi> do they have tachometers too?
[10:25:37] <ssi> I think we talked about this
[10:25:41] <zeeshan|2> tachometers = resolvers
[10:25:43] <zeeshan|2> i think.
[10:25:47] <archivist> already having drives is cheaper!
[10:25:57] <zeeshan|2> yea i'd like to use these drives
[10:25:59] <zeeshan|2> if i can.
[10:26:01] <zeeshan|2> if i can power em up
[10:26:08] <zeeshan|2> cause it's already tuned for this machine
[10:26:14] <zeeshan|2> and i don't have to fak around
[10:26:23] <zeeshan|2> https://www.flickr.com/photos/128539016@N05/14912262293/
[10:26:29] <zeeshan|2> can you tell if they're DC brushless? :)
[10:26:34] <ssi> well I have no idea what 3 * 96/165 V means :P
[10:26:51] <zeeshan|2> ssi youre a smart guy
[10:26:56] <zeeshan|2> build me a 240VDC supply
[10:27:00] <zeeshan|2> 60A!
[10:27:42] <zeeshan|2> i think these are 3 phase servo motors.
[10:27:53] <zeeshan|2> theres 5 pins on the main casing
[10:28:02] <zeeshan|2> and like 4 in the rear casing where i think the resolver is.
[10:28:31] <ssi> resolvers should be like 6 pins
[10:28:33] <cradek> those look like dc brush servos with tachs
[10:28:43] <zeeshan|2> tachs = resolvers
[10:28:44] <zeeshan|2> ?!
[10:28:45] <ssi> and it's probably +, -, FG, tach+, tach-
[10:28:50] <zeeshan|2> is it an interchangeable term
[10:28:53] <ssi> no
[10:28:54] <cradek> no, tachs and resolvers are totally different
[10:29:00] <zeeshan|2> when i open it up
[10:29:03] <zeeshan|2> theres some brushes
[10:29:04] <pcw_home> Yes and 173V might be OK with rectified 120VAC
[10:29:06] <zeeshan|2> and some ttransformer
[10:29:07] <ssi> then it's a brush motor
[10:29:11] <cradek> tachs measure velocity and resolvers measure position
[10:29:13] <ssi> the transformer is the resolver
[10:29:15] <jdh> you can't open a resolver
[10:29:20] <cradek> there is no resolver
[10:29:22] <pcw_home> thats a brush motor wit a tach
[10:29:38] <zeeshan|2> :-(
[10:30:05] <pcw_home> Probably uses glass scales for position feedback
[10:30:15] <pcw_home> linear scales
[10:30:20] <zeeshan|2> well i dont think those glass scales
[10:30:24] <zeeshan|2> are connected to the amplifier
[10:30:26] <jdh> are you planning on new drives anyway?
[10:30:30] <ssi> they don't need to be
[10:30:30] <zeeshan|2> jdh no
[10:30:33] <zeeshan|2> not if i dont have to
[10:30:34] <ssi> the amplifier is velocity mode
[10:30:34] <cradek> they wouldn't be
[10:30:56] <ssi> you send it a command signal, and it tries to make the motor run a speed exactly proportional to your command
[10:31:01] <cradek> https://www.flickr.com/photos/128539016@N05/15536061122/ says velocity mode, tacho feedback
[10:31:01] <ssi> using the tach to close the velocity loop
[10:31:21] <cradek> this is a perfect and easy system to retrofit
[10:32:07] <pcw_home> yeah simplest possible thing
[10:32:07] <zeeshan|2> ssi so linuxcnc will get
[10:32:13] <zeeshan|2> input from glass enconders
[10:32:17] <zeeshan|2> for positioning?
[10:32:20] <ssi> yes
[10:32:28] <zeeshan|2> so somewhere i must have an interpolator
[10:32:32] <ssi> ?
[10:32:39] <cradek> depends on the scales
[10:32:48] <cradek> some will have a hardware interpolator, some will not
[10:32:53] <zeeshan|2> theyre some heidhnham ones
[10:32:58] <zeeshan|2> how can i tell
[10:33:01] * cradek shrugs
[10:33:01] <zeeshan|2> should i trace the wires
[10:33:03] <zeeshan|2> and see where they go?
[10:33:04] <cradek> find documentation?
[10:33:08] <zeeshan|2> i think they're going to the tnc 150.
[10:33:13] <zeeshan|2> which is the heid controller
[10:33:15] <pcw_home> scale nameplate
[10:33:24] <zeeshan|2> okay lemme check
[10:34:03] <pcw_home> Heidenhaine has good docs even for older stuff (at least they used to)
[10:34:18] <ssi> hopefully they'll let you read them
[10:34:21] <ssi> unlike fanuc :P
[10:36:33] <cradek> I don't know what 95/165v means either, but it matches the transformer, so who cares:
https://www.flickr.com/photos/128539016@N05/15346424017/in/photostream/
[10:36:38] <cradek> must have two taps I guess
[10:37:05] <zeeshan|2> cradek
[10:37:06] <zeeshan|2> nice catch
[10:37:17] <zeeshan|2> only problem is i dont have 3 phase
[10:37:20] <zeeshan|2> so i cant power that transformer up
[10:37:21] <ssi> I wonder if it means either 3 phase @ 95V, or single phase at 165V
[10:37:26] <cradek> you'll need it...
[10:37:35] <zeeshan|2> ssi that could possibly be the casse
[10:37:51] <ssi> the fanuc servo drive in my vmc wanted 3 phase 185V, and the transformer provided it
[10:37:52] <cradek> ... or you need a new transformer but single phase 2.5kva is going to be massive
[10:38:13] <CaptHindsight> so maybe 3 *duinos and 1 RPi should do it :)
[10:38:20] <zeeshan|2> https://www.flickr.com/photos/128539016@N05/15346798010/in/photostream/
[10:38:24] <zeeshan|2> thats a single phase one already in there
[10:38:27] <zeeshan|2> maybe i can use that :P
[10:38:39] <zeeshan|2> but its definitely the wrong voltage.
[10:38:45] <zeeshan|2> ill take a closer look at the other transformer
[10:38:47] <zeeshan|2> and see how the wiring is
[10:38:49] <ssi> zeeshan|2: you probably shouldn't be messing with electricity ;)
[10:38:49] <cradek> no that's way too small
[10:38:55] <CaptHindsight> 220V in and are there two taps on the output side? 95V and the other 165v?
[10:38:59] <zeeshan|2> ssi shuddap
[10:39:04] <ssi> zeeshan|2: if I were you, I'd get some cheap amc brush drives
[10:39:06] <zeeshan|2> i'm careful and not stupid
[10:39:08] <ssi> they're really really inexpensive
[10:39:13] <ssi> and will greatly simplify your life
[10:39:13] <zeeshan|2> ssi the thing is
[10:39:19] <zeeshan|2> this already has all the tuning done in it.
[10:39:23] <ssi> big deal
[10:39:26] <zeeshan|2> through use of different size resistors
[10:39:31] <zeeshan|2> if it's as simple as powering it up
[10:39:33] <zeeshan|2> and hooking up my motors
[10:39:37] <zeeshan|2> why would i grab another set of drives?
[10:39:43] <zeeshan|2> if these are burned out, ill get another set
[10:39:50] <cradek> I agree removing good matched working parts is stupid
[10:40:01] <ssi> if you can power it, go for it
[10:40:09] <zeeshan|2> worse comes to worse
[10:40:12] <zeeshan|2> ill need a 2hp rotary phase gen
[10:40:15] <zeeshan|2> er converter
[10:40:17] <cradek> 8hp
[10:40:22] <zeeshan|2> or 8 hp :P
[10:40:37] <pcw_home> Yeah if the drives are good use them till they fail
[10:40:38] <pcw_home> You may need to re-form /replace filter capacitors
[10:40:54] <zeeshan|2> PCW_home the sweet thing about old electronics is i think i can work on them
[10:40:59] <zeeshan|2> because they are pin hole type
[10:41:02] <zeeshan|2> so its a lot easier to replace stuff
[10:41:05] <pcw_home> if its been idle for a long time
[10:41:16] <zeeshan|2> its been idle for the last 2 years
[10:41:19] <zeeshan|2> according to seller
[10:41:58] <zeeshan|2> cradek how are you getting 8hp?
[10:42:11] <zeeshan|2> 220v*7A = ~ 1540 w = 2hp
[10:42:16] <zeeshan|2> then * sqrt 3
[10:42:37] <ssi> zeeshan|2: didn't you say your Z servo was >2kw?
[10:42:38] <zeeshan|2> ~ 3.56 hp
[10:42:44] <zeeshan|2> ssi yes
[10:42:53] <pcw_home> If its been idel for a while a Variac/ slow startup might be a good idea
[10:42:54] <zeeshan|2> thats what the name plate says
[10:43:05] <ssi> so then where are you coming up with 1540W?
[10:43:11] <zeeshan|2> ssi based on the transformer
[10:43:17] <zeeshan|2> that supplies to the amplifier
[10:43:23] <zeeshan|2> https://www.flickr.com/photos/128539016@N05/15346424017/in/photostream/
[10:43:24] <zeeshan|2> that thing
[10:43:45] <pcw_home> You will notice that the original transformer is only 2.5 KW
[10:43:54] <zeeshan|2> yes
[10:44:27] <zeeshan|2> https://www.flickr.com/photos/128539016@N05/14914683954/
[10:44:32] <zeeshan|2> pins on the servos
[10:44:36] <zeeshan|2> 5 pins main
[10:44:41] <zeeshan|2> 4 on the tachogen
[10:44:50] <zeeshan|2> i'm not sure why a 3 phase servo has 5 pins
[10:44:56] <zeeshan|2> 3 for each phase, 1 for ground
[10:45:01] <ssi> it's not a 3 phase servo
[10:45:11] <zeeshan|2> what is it then
[10:45:13] <ssi> it's a brush servo, so it has + and -
[10:45:13] <zeeshan|2> :D
[10:45:14] <ssi> frame ground
[10:45:22] <zeeshan|2> oh
[10:45:23] <ssi> and probably 2 pins for temp
[10:45:28] <pcw_home> maybe a overheat sensor
[10:45:31] <zeeshan|2> so technically ican shoot 72VDC
[10:45:34] <zeeshan|2> through 2 of the pins
[10:45:36] <zeeshan|2> and i can see it spin?
[10:45:39] <zeeshan|2> to test it?
[10:45:40] <ssi> yes
[10:45:42] <zeeshan|2> yay
[10:45:47] <ssi> I'd use less than 72V tho
[10:45:48] <zeeshan|2> oh shit
[10:45:53] <zeeshan|2> 2 of the pins are brakes
[10:45:56] <zeeshan|2> i think.
[10:45:58] <ssi> might be brake
[10:46:00] <pcw_home> try 12V
[10:46:08] <zeeshan|2> smallest supply i have free is 24v
[10:46:09] <zeeshan|2> or 72
[10:46:12] <ssi> if you have a lab supply, hook it up and slowly bring up the voltage
[10:46:14] <pcw_home> (72V may be a bit exciting)
[10:46:16] <ssi> use a 9v battery otherwise
[10:46:25] <zeeshan|2> okay
[10:46:37] <ssi> just don't run it for long like that :P
[10:46:41] <pcw_home> 5V even (PC supply)
[10:46:46] <ssi> tach should only be 2 pins I'd think
[10:46:52] <zeeshan|2> well the smaller the voltage
[10:46:55] <zeeshan|2> the more current itll draw right?
[10:47:00] <ssi> no, the less
[10:47:06] <zeeshan|2> o
[10:47:10] <pcw_home> probably a shield on the tach wires
[10:47:34] <zeeshan|2> ill trace the wires
[10:47:37] <zeeshan|2> to see exactly what pin is what
[10:47:52] <ssi> is the shaft locked up with the motor unhooked?
[10:47:55] <ssi> or does it spin free
[10:47:59] <zeeshan|2> for X and Y yes
[10:48:01] <zeeshan|2> it's free
[10:48:05] <ssi> then there's no brake
[10:48:06] <zeeshan|2> for Z its tight as hell
[10:48:18] <ssi> yeah Z has a brake... that's pretty normal
[10:48:24] <zeeshan|2> dude
[10:48:28] <zeeshan|2> asap i took motor off
[10:48:33] <zeeshan|2> the damn z axis fell down
[10:48:34] <ssi> head crashed?
[10:48:34] <zeeshan|2> rofl
[10:48:34] <ssi> yeah
[10:48:35] <ssi> heh
[10:48:43] <zeeshan|2> only a couple inches
[10:48:45] <zeeshan|2> but it was funny.
[10:48:47] <ssi> ballscrews have no problem backdriving
[10:48:56] <ssi> head on my vmc prolly weighs 1000lb
[10:48:59] <zeeshan|2> damn friction factors
[10:49:11] <zeeshan|2> https://www.flickr.com/photos/128539016@N05/15532734851/in/photostream/
[10:49:13] <zeeshan|2> this is all i can find
[10:49:17] <zeeshan|2> in terms of information.
[10:49:22] <zeeshan|2> for the encoder
[10:49:29] <zeeshan|2> its telling me for the X it's 470 MM :P
[10:49:30] <zeeshan|2> lol
[10:49:55] <cradek> zeeshan|2: don't forget to run the spindle
[10:50:12] <zeeshan|2> run the spindle?
[10:50:33] <cradek> with your phase converter
[10:50:43] <zeeshan|2> im using vfd
[10:50:45] <zeeshan|2> for spindle
[10:50:56] <cradek> how many hp?
[10:51:01] <zeeshan|2> 5
[10:51:08] <zeeshan|2> got a 10hp vfd
[10:51:16] <cradek> surely it's 3ph in too, then??
[10:51:20] <zeeshan|2> yessir
[10:51:23] <zeeshan|2> so it works awesome!!
[10:51:23] <zeeshan|2> :D
[10:51:45] <cradek> then you still need to power that with the phase converter too, right?
[10:51:52] <zeeshan|2> no
[10:51:56] <ssi> nah that'll work
[10:51:58] <zeeshan|2> i feed single phase to the 3 phase vfd
[10:52:01] <ssi> but if you're gonna get a rotary converter
[10:52:02] <zeeshan|2> and it generates 3 phase for me
[10:52:11] <zeeshan|2> ssi i dont want to get a rpc
[10:52:12] <zeeshan|2> if i dont have to
[10:52:13] <ssi> you might have been better off getting a 5hp vfd and a 10-15hp rotary converter
[10:52:29] <cradek> surely the 10hp vfd wants 3phase power input
[10:52:33] <zeeshan|2> cradek it does
[10:52:36] <cradek> it won't have the capacitors for single phase in
[10:52:39] <zeeshan|2> but it gets recitified to dc
[10:52:46] <zeeshan|2> so if you feed it single phase
[10:52:46] <cradek> sure
[10:52:47] <ssi> cradek: that's why he bought a 10hp vfd for a 5hp motor
[10:52:47] <zeeshan|2> it still works
[10:52:58] <ssi> cradek: that's why I bought a 25hp vfd for my 12hp motor
[10:52:59] <cradek> ok, if you say so
[10:53:04] <zeeshan|2> im using 10 hp capcactors
[10:53:06] <zeeshan|2> for 5 hp motor
[10:53:10] <zeeshan|2> for the ripple @ 120 deg
[10:53:11] <cradek> ok gotcha
[10:53:39] <zeeshan|2> okay so these glass encoders are "LS 904"
[10:53:40] <zeeshan|2> :D
[10:53:58] <CaptHindsight> https://ninesights.ninesigma.com/web/siemens-gallery/featuredgallery/-/needs-portlet/viewNeed/231
[10:54:16] <zeeshan|2> i thought linear scales
[10:54:20] <zeeshan|2> had a really slow response time?
[10:54:50] <cradek> looks like LS904 will have interpolators
[10:54:52] <CaptHindsight> "Siemens Corporate Technology is looking for new concepts and business models that will allow the consumer crowd engineering paradigm to be applied in professional or enterprise markets." have they all gone nuts?
[10:55:00] <zeeshan|2> cradek how can you tell?
[10:55:07] <zeeshan|2> http://www.microcontrol.it/files/compatibili_heidenhain.pdf
[10:55:08] <zeeshan|2> oh
[10:55:13] <zeeshan|2> this thing says "depending on interpolation electronics"
[10:55:41] <zeeshan|2> so it outputs different frequency sine waves or something?
[10:55:45] <zeeshan|2> for each tick mark?
[10:56:25] <zeeshan|2> looks like i should pick up an old school scope
[10:56:28] <zeeshan|2> to diagnose some things
[10:56:33] <zeeshan|2> i'm dealing with all these sine waves now
[10:56:36] <zeeshan|2> ;-)
[10:58:14] <zeeshan|2> please tell me mesa makes interpolators
[10:58:15] <zeeshan|2> :-(
[10:58:27] <cradek> no, keep the ones you have
[10:58:31] <zeeshan|2> i'm almost dead positive that the interpolators
[10:58:35] <zeeshan|2> are within the old school controller.
[10:58:42] <zeeshan|2> and not a stand alone unit
[10:59:26] <zeeshan|2> http://www.allmendinger.eu/uploads/pics/db_heidenhain-steuerung_02.jpg
[10:59:29] <zeeshan|2> inside a box like that
[10:59:36] <zeeshan|2> the mysterical unknown :-)
[10:59:43] <cradek> can you confirm that the amps need 95v and 165v? (or more likely 135 and 235 dc)
[10:59:55] <zeeshan|2> i will when i get back home tongiht
[11:00:16] <zeeshan|2> ill trace the transformer wiring
[11:00:33] <zeeshan|2> i wish i had 3 phase
[11:00:38] <zeeshan|2> so i could test out the output from the transformer
[11:00:41] <cradek> you have 230v single phase?
[11:00:43] <zeeshan|2> yes
[11:01:27] <zeeshan|2> thanks for the help
[11:01:30] <zeeshan|2> ill be back later tonight
[11:01:33] <zeeshan|2> couple hours :P
[11:03:22] <ssi> WOOOO!
[11:03:25] <ssi> my vfd will be here today :D
[11:03:32] <ssi> they didn't put the tracking number in til this morning, and it's on the truck
[11:34:12] <cradek> zeeshan|2: I went through the single phase transformers at HGR and didn't find anything suitable
[11:37:05] <cradek> it seems like you might end up needing two transformers, and both the ratios are weird ones
[13:21:15] <hpopols> hi
[13:22:43] <hpopols> I am trying to install linuxcnc-sim on the last version of Linuxmint for gui developement purpose (coil machine GUI with pyside)
[13:23:08] <hpopols> I tried compiling and through buildbot without success
[13:23:22] <hpopols> did anyone succed it?
[13:23:58] <hpopols> there is some dependancy issues
[13:24:35] <hpopols> Buildbot : libgnomeprintui2.2-0, libgnomeprint2.2-0 and libboost-python1.46.1
[13:25:11] <hpopols> somebody here?
[13:25:37] <cradek> hpopols: that isn't currently a platform we build for
[13:25:51] <cradek> so you're bound to have some dependency things to sort out
[13:26:01] <cradek> I recommend using debian stable (wheezy)
[13:26:01] <hpopols> hi cradek
[13:26:10] <hpopols> thank for responding
[13:27:09] <hpopols> I understand that, what do you use for dev? (virtualmachine?)
[13:31:24] <hpopols> anyway, thx cradek i will try wheezy on virtualbox for dev (i have already installed it on my mill)
[13:31:52] <hpopols> see you around
[13:32:05] <hpopols> bye
[14:07:13] <cradek> I use wheezy for everything. I don't usually use virtual machines for anything.
[14:08:49] <_methods> heheh you don't run your cnc's off of vm's
[14:54:13] <MrSunshine> hmm ... my chinese keyless chuck just came apart?! .. like wtf :/
[14:56:40] <PetefromTn_> jeez that sucks...
[14:56:48] <PetefromTn_> but the keyword here is CHINESE!
[14:57:16] <jdh> perhaps you really meant 'cheap'
[14:58:44] <LeelooMinai> I am pretty sure Chinese can make as high quality chuck as they want:)
[15:00:47] <jdh> right. instead they make the one cheap people will buy
[15:01:21] <ssi> they absolutely can, and DO
[15:01:27] <ssi> you can buy high-quality chinese tools
[15:01:32] <ssi> just not at bargain basement prices :)
[15:02:26] <CaptHindsight> who are there rare individuals that recognize and demand quality products?
[15:02:45] <PetefromTn_> bastards!!
[15:02:51] <PetefromTn_> ;)
[15:03:10] <ssi> I've got several cheap chinese keyless chucks, and they're no albrecht, but they're servicable
[15:03:33] <Rab> I've been tempted by $40 eBay "precision keyless chucks", but just couldn't take the plunge.
[15:03:35] <ssi> but I have had issues with them being very hard to loosen if drilling with big drills, and had issues with the nose unscrewing when trying to loosen the jaws
[15:04:02] <Rab> ssi, how is typical TIR?
[15:05:01] <PetefromTn_> I have had a couple chinese keyless ones. One I got from Tormach for the old RF45 I had and it was surprisingly decent. I sold it with the machine.
[15:05:23] <ssi> Rab: eh, worst one is about .001
[15:06:02] <ssi> most of them dial well below that
[15:06:14] <Rab> ssi, that seems pretty good...I guess I'm coming from a drill press perspective.
[15:08:02] <ssi> yeah
[15:08:09] <ssi> and I don't stress over drill chuck runout too much anyway
[15:08:14] <ssi> drills pretty much go wherever they want to go
[15:08:51] <LeelooMinai> Or snap in half if they cannot:)
[15:10:23] <PetefromTn_> Meh they are like a pencil... if you snap it just sharpen it and you're off to the races again LOL.
[15:10:46] <ssi> :)
[15:10:59] <ssi> I like short-LOC drills better anyway :)
[15:11:30] <PetefromTn_> I have been slowly replacing my chinese drills with the ones I get at Fastenal and they are quite good really.
[15:12:08] <PetefromTn_> most of the holes I machine with the Cincinatti I use them either in a collet holder or one of the KEYED drill chucks I have here.
[15:13:09] <PetefromTn_> I let my wife use the chinese ones in the cordless so when she snaps one I can say SEE I should have bought better drills!! so she lets me buy better drills the next time. hehehe
[15:13:18] <_methods> hahahah
[15:13:21] <_methods> brilliant
[15:13:29] <PetefromTn_> ;
[15:13:32] <PetefromTn_> ;)
[15:14:17] <PetefromTn_> I bought one of those drill doctors and so far it's a piece of shit...
[15:14:57] <PetefromTn_> but I got it used from a guy on craigslist so maybe he just wore it the hell out and its not what it WAS...Doubtful.
[15:15:46] <Tom_itx> i doubt they're much good to begin wiht
[15:16:23] <PetefromTn_> yeah agreed
[15:16:41] <_methods> yeah those drill dr's are trash
[15:16:46] <PetefromTn_> It seems to work with anything larger than say a quarter inch or so but below that it sucks and it is hit or miss really.
[15:16:56] <_methods> you might as well just eyeball it
[15:17:05] <PetefromTn_> I found I got better results by hand
[15:17:13] <_methods> yep
[15:17:26] <Tom_itx> it's just as bad on larger ones, it's just not as visible
[15:17:37] <PetefromTn_> but now I need to use my magnified goggles to be able to do that anymore since I am too stubborn to break down and get the glasses my doctor told me I need...
[15:17:56] <roycroft> i use a grinding wheel to sharpen large bits
[15:18:02] <roycroft> and smaller ones go in the recycle bin
[15:18:16] <Tom_itx> i haven't found a good pair of goggles i could deal with yet
[15:18:46] <_methods> if you watch craigslist you can find real sharpeners fairly often
[15:18:46] <PetefromTn_> these I got from a neighbor. They were from his father who passed away and he gave me a BUNCH of cool manual tools.
[15:19:03] <PetefromTn_> they are OLD SCHOOL!!
[15:19:36] <PetefromTn_> http://www.danscottandassociates.com/files/Product%20Photos/Magnification/optivisor.jpg
[15:19:40] <PetefromTn_> mine are like that.
[15:19:56] <PetefromTn_> Dunno what the magnification is but you gotta get pretty close LOL
[15:20:01] <roycroft> i have a couple optivisors
[15:20:09] <roycroft> i consider them essential tools
[15:20:22] <roycroft> the lenses are interchangable
[15:20:44] <Tom_itx> be nice to find some with buit in leds
[15:21:09] <PetefromTn_> I have seen some like that.
[15:21:10] <roycroft> http://www.amazon.com/Led-Light-Attachment-For-Optivisor/dp/B0058ECQ46/ref=sr_1_3?ie=UTF8&qid=1413316878&sr=8-3&keywords=optivisor
[15:21:19] <roycroft> i have that on one of mine
[15:21:29] <roycroft> it works brilliantly
[15:21:29] <ssi> PetefromTn_: so CME may have good prices, but holy cow they're a pain in the ass to deal with
[15:21:30] <PetefromTn_> damn thats kinda pricey.
[15:21:38] <PetefromTn_> why?
[15:21:41] <roycroft> you can build one for a few dollars
[15:21:45] <PetefromTn_> The guy was very cool to me over the phone.
[15:21:47] <ssi> well I told them everything i wanted, and they sent me back a price
[15:21:55] <ssi> but there was some communication issues back and forth
[15:22:00] <ssi> and I want an itemized list of everything I'm buying
[15:22:08] <ssi> ebay won't let me send an email address to them
[15:22:17] <PetefromTn_> call the guy on the phone...
[15:22:17] <ssi> and I talked to someone on the phone, but he spoke about zero english
[15:22:31] <ssi> and the general gist of the conversation was he had no way to send me the list, or was unwilling to
[15:22:35] <ssi> not sure which
[15:22:45] <ssi> lots of "you talk to her long time on ebay alreadyA
[15:22:54] <Tom_itx> did you insult him?
[15:22:58] <ssi> I don't think so?
[15:23:05] <PetefromTn_> really I spoke to a guy that was very helpful and built the package to my request basically.
[15:23:17] <Tom_itx> but didn't ship it?
[15:23:18] <Tom_itx> :D
[15:23:37] <PetefromTn_> what do you want?
[15:24:14] <Tom_itx> i suppose quality service is just too much to ask for anymore
[15:24:22] <PetefromTn_> Ultimately he put together three different packages I bought on ebay and he swapped out what I wanted in them.
[15:24:43] <PetefromTn_> wish I could remember the name of the guy I spoke with. JOHN?
[15:24:53] <PetefromTn_> I cannot remember..
[15:25:36] <ssi> I can't recall exactly what I asked for, but it's something like this
[15:26:10] <ssi> 3 short ER32 chucks, 2 4" chucks, 1 6" chuck, 2 6" ER16 chucks, 1 1/2" keyless drill chuck, a 32nds set of ER32 collets, and two each of 3/8, 1/2, 3/4 ER32 collets
[15:26:22] <ssi> and I asked for spanner wrenches for those, and they sent me prices on ER nuts
[15:26:32] <ssi> and I asked about cinci pull studs, and they sent me details on the haas ones
[15:26:38] <ssi> I just want to make sure I'm not buying anything I don't want
[15:27:06] <ssi> the price they quoted was $448
[15:27:14] <PetefromTn_> yeah they did not have the pull studs for mine.
[15:27:17] <ssi> which also seems a little high?
[15:27:22] <ssi> I just want to see an itemized list
[15:27:50] <ssi> otherwise I'm better off just ordering directly off their ebay auctions so at least I know what I'm getting :P
[15:27:58] <PetefromTn_> the long ER20/16 chucks are nice because you can get them in tighter places.
[15:28:16] <ssi> that's why I included them
[15:28:21] <ssi> I have ER16 collets already
[15:28:22] <PetefromTn_> Like I said that is basically what we did, I spoke to him and told him what I wanted...
[15:28:37] <PetefromTn_> and ordered the sets he sold.
[15:28:47] <ssi> and for little endmills, pretty much everything is 3/8" shank
[15:28:48] <PetefromTn_> then he swapped out certain items for others from other sets
[15:29:11] <PetefromTn_> depends on your definition of little LOL
[15:29:38] <ssi> everything 3/8" and below that i use has a 3/8" shank for the most part
[15:29:43] <ssi> even some 7/16" endmills are 3/8" shank
[15:30:02] <PetefromTn_> really...
[15:30:05] <ssi> until you get down to like dental mills / pcb mills
[15:30:08] <ssi> those are 1/8" shank
[15:30:15] <PetefromTn_> most of the cutters that are smaller have quarter inch shanks..
[15:30:31] <ssi> I don't have much of anything with a quarter inch shank
[15:30:38] <ssi> I've got 1/8" and 1/16" endmills with 3/8" shanks
[15:30:52] <PetefromTn_> hmmm
[15:31:01] <PetefromTn_> my 1/8 are 1/8 inch shank.
[15:31:23] <PetefromTn_> my quarter inch endmills both flat and ball are all quarter inch shanks.
[15:31:35] <PetefromTn_> the engraver bits I got are quarter inch shanks.
[15:31:48] <PetefromTn_> thats why the collet sets are nice..
[15:31:52] <ssi> yeah I have an engraver bit with 1/4" shank
[15:32:08] <ssi> well the collet sets are nice, but my plan is to have a full set of collets, and then just several of the common sizes
[15:32:20] <ssi> cause I bet I'll have five or six 3/8" shank tools in the machine
[15:32:26] <ssi> and a couple 1/2", couple 3/4"
[15:32:38] <_methods> yeah buy lots of 1/4,3/8,1/2
[15:32:41] <ssi> hey do you have a braking resistor for your VFD?
[15:34:28] <PetefromTn_> yeah
[15:34:40] <ssi> what did you use?
[15:34:48] <PetefromTn_> DIY LOL
[15:35:05] <ssi> yeah I figured
[15:35:18] <ssi> that's good... my VFD on the hardinge requires a module with external IGBT
[15:36:21] <PetefromTn_> I know Hitachi sells one but Art and I just looked at the specs and found an element that was the same thing.
[15:36:32] <ssi> heating element?
[15:36:50] <PetefromTn_> yeah
[15:37:24] <ssi> you and connor are gonna have to show me how to do the modbus thing
[15:37:50] <PetefromTn_> yeah if the modbus works for the orient that is...hehe
[15:38:47] <PetefromTn_> http://www.ebay.com/itm/SHARS-5-8-KEYLESS-DRILL-CHUCK-CAT40-V-FLANGE-ADAPTER-CAT-40-NEW-/350959600994?pt=BI_Tool_Work_Holding&hash=item51b6d28562
[15:38:53] <PetefromTn_> Wonder how bad that thing is LOL
[15:39:09] <ssi> I'm sure it's fine
[15:39:13] <cpresser> question about limit-switches. since i want them to act as hardware-interlock (cut the enable-signal to the drive), ill wire the switches in serial (they are normaly closed). but i would also like to connect them individually to my mesa-io card
[15:39:14] <ssi> I have that chuck on an R8 arbor
[15:39:19] <cpresser> so i can see wich switch triggerd
[15:39:21] <cpresser> any hints?
[15:39:43] <Rab> Shars stuff is not terrible, I think they have some kind of QC arrangement worked out with their sources.
[15:40:02] <ssi> cpresser: you'd need double pole switches to do that
[15:40:15] <tjtr33> zeeshan|2, interfacing to HeidEncoders English
http://www.heidenhain.de/de_EN/php/documentation-information/brochures/popup/media/media/file/view/file-0668/file.pdf
[15:40:21] <ssi> yeah I've got a lot of shars tooling, and I'm not unhappy with any of it for the money
[15:40:28] <cpresser> ssi: yep, i figured that... but i cant replace the exisiting ones. because of mechanical constraints
[15:40:30] <PetefromTn_> My limits completely kill power to the drive side of my servo drives.
[15:41:07] <_methods> yeah i did get a dial indicator with a crushed back from shars one time
[15:41:24] <_methods> but i was putting a mag back on it so it didn't matter
[15:42:03] <PetefromTn_> http://imgur.com/ICb8oDp Just got this photo in an email from a previous customer.. He seemed to like the custom sidewheel I machined for him LOL...
[15:42:22] <ssi> lol nice
[15:42:30] <_methods> damn
[15:42:35] <_methods> can'tmiss that
[15:42:38] <PetefromTn_> Honeslty I have gotten two different items from shars that I was less than impressed with.
[15:42:49] <PetefromTn_> thanks guys. It came out pretty sweet .
[15:43:11] <PetefromTn_> but yeah I bought a coaxial indicator and an LED edge finder. Both of which were less than great.
[15:43:23] <_methods> yeah if you buy a coax get a blake
[15:43:27] <_methods> don't buy anything else
[15:43:28] <PetefromTn_> the coaxial I was able to put in my lathe and repair
[15:43:36] <PetefromTn_> it actually works decent now.
[15:43:46] <PetefromTn_> The LED edge finder was not too great.
[15:44:03] <_methods> yeah those things are not so hot
[15:44:06] <PetefromTn_> it for some reason would not touch off on large blocks of aluminum for some reason..
[15:44:07] <ssi> I have a shars coaxial indicator and it hasn't given me any trouble
[15:44:14] <_methods> i still prefer real edge finder
[15:44:22] <PetefromTn_> well you musta got lucky then.
[15:44:32] <PetefromTn_> yeah I much prefer my starrett.
[15:44:41] <PetefromTn_> the LED one just sits in the box now.
[15:44:52] <cpresser> idea on how to wire the limit-switches:
http://imgur.com/g1ZZ4W4
[15:44:58] <_methods> i use my led one when i'm workin on the backside of a tombstone in horizontals
[15:44:59] <PetefromTn_> I toyed with the idea of making a probe out of it but I honeslty want a real probe.
[15:45:06] <cpresser> howver, that does not work when more than one switch is pressed
[15:45:13] <_methods> or one of those shitty machines you can't open doors on now because of safety
[15:45:19] <cpresser> an i will have 6 in series
[15:46:23] <_methods> i don't know how these machine makers think you're supposed to touch off on a part if you can't open the door
[15:46:24] <PetefromTn_> cpresser Like I said all of my limits are wired in with my estop circuit that kills all drive power for movement. I have a limit override button that allows me to jog off a limit should I ever hit one. If the machine is setup correctly you really should NEVER hit one..
[15:46:50] <ssi> PetefromTn_: actually that's a good point
[15:47:00] <_methods> especially once the windows get all screwed up from chips hitting them
[15:47:01] <ssi> if your limit switches are physically wired into your drive enable circuit,
[15:47:07] <ssi> you'll never be able to override limits and jog off them
[15:47:19] <PetefromTn_> most machines have an override for the door you can change.
[15:47:24] <cpresser> yes, that is a problem. but this machine can be moved manually
[15:47:46] <ssi> cpresser: personally I've always been happy with the estop chain being all in software, and just having positive enables
[15:47:49] <PetefromTn_> what kind of machine is it?
[15:48:09] <cpresser> perhaps ill get some relays with two poles. and control them with the limit-switches
[15:48:20] <cpresser> its a tensile-strenght-testing machine
[15:48:24] <cpresser> only one axis
[15:48:40] <PetefromTn_> no way would I want estop or limits not be hard wired to power...especially on a commercial machine...
[15:48:42] <cpresser> with a handwheel to manually move it.
[15:48:59] <cpresser> yes, i want it hardwired. its not a toy (100kN force!)
[15:49:13] <ssi> PetefromTn_: the fact that you can jog off limits with the override limits setting suggests that your limits are not hard wired to power :P
[15:49:26] <PetefromTn_> no actually they ARE wired to power.
[15:49:43] <PetefromTn_> limits or estop drops out the latching relay that powers all the drives.
[15:50:22] <cpresser> but there is a override to the relay?
[15:50:26] <PetefromTn_> the limit overrid button actually restores the relay power and allows me to enable the drives so I can CAREFULLY jog off the limit.
[15:50:38] <cpresser> i would use a key-switch for that
[15:50:54] <PetefromTn_> mine is a physical switch.
[15:51:01] <PetefromTn_> not really necessary to be keyed.
[15:51:21] <PetefromTn_> it only really does anything when you are on the limits or in estop.
[15:51:22] <cradek> mine's a button on the side of the console that has to be held in
[15:51:31] <PetefromTn_> yeah you have to hold it in.
[15:51:57] <ssi> need a keyswitch on either side of the cabinet, toward the back
[15:51:58] <ssi> four guys
[15:52:00] <cradek> we did the same thing on seb's retrofit, except it happens to be on the back so you have to get someone to help you, haha
[15:52:07] <ssi> one to open the sealed instructions
[15:52:12] <ssi> two to turn the keys together
[15:52:12] * cpresser needs to get some DIN-Rail relays
[15:52:17] <ssi> one to turn the handwheel
[15:52:27] <PetefromTn_> and one to RULE THEM ALL!!!
[15:52:28] <ssi> and carefully enter the launch codes
[15:52:45] <PetefromTn_> I got mine from Galco..
[15:52:55] <PetefromTn_> they were most reasonable..
[15:53:07] <PetefromTn_> and they give you a nice big candy bar with your order :D
[15:53:44] <PetefromTn_> needless to say when I fried the 7i77 awhile back and got new relays just in case I waited patiently for my candy bar to arrive..
[16:00:18] <turbozee> YO
[16:04:09] <turbozee> i am a bit confused about my dc brush servos.
[16:04:13] <turbozee> <-zeeshan
[16:04:27] <ssi> what about
[16:04:30] <turbozee> since they have tachometers which measure the velocity of the motor
[16:04:40] <turbozee> why do you even need glass linear encoders
[16:04:47] <cradek> for position feedback
[16:04:51] <ssi> wecause tachometers don't give you position
[16:04:52] <turbozee> why cant you just take the integral of velocity and get position?
[16:05:07] <ssi> you could, but it wouldn't be terribly accurate
[16:05:09] <cradek> can you cover your windows and drive the car by looking at the speedometer?
[16:05:20] <turbozee> cradek
[16:05:23] <turbozee> if i knew the integral
[16:05:23] <turbozee> yes
[16:05:30] <turbozee> and i was sampling it enough time
[16:05:35] <turbozee> fast enough
[16:05:40] <ssi> yes, it's theoretically possible
[16:05:46] <ssi> that's how inertial navigation systems work
[16:05:48] <turbozee> i did a lab where we took the integral of velocity signal to get position
[16:05:51] <ssi> it's not practical tho
[16:05:58] <turbozee> any noise in the velocity signal though gets amplified
[16:06:03] <turbozee> thats the only negative part of it
[16:06:06] <turbozee> but if you filter it
[16:06:12] <turbozee> it works prety well
[16:06:30] <cradek> pretty well does not give you machining precision in position
[16:06:34] <ssi> correct
[16:06:37] <turbozee> haha
[16:06:41] <turbozee> good enough
[16:06:58] <tjtr33> you can do 50mph in Cincinnatti and do 50mph in Barcelona, velocity dont jive with posn
[16:07:12] <Deejay> gn8
[16:07:29] <ssi> tjtr33: if you know where you started from, and how fast you went and in what direction, you can know exactly where you are
[16:07:32] <ssi> in theory
[16:07:34] <ssi> but all those errors creep in :)
[16:07:49] <ssi> like I said, that's how INS works in airplanes
[16:07:59] <turbozee> the error is small
[16:08:00] <ssi> the old ones are big three axis mechanical gimbaled gyros/accelerometers
[16:08:06] <turbozee> if your sampling rate of velocity is high.
[16:08:15] <turbozee> cause you need delta angle
[16:08:16] <cradek> and your velocity precision is perfect
[16:08:19] <ssi> and it measures and integrates rolling moments and linear accelerations in three axes
[16:08:22] <PCW> the error buillds up
[16:08:28] <ssi> yep
[16:08:58] <turbozee> http://s130.photobucket.com/user/turbozee84/media/tacho_zpseed723ac.png.html?sort=3&o=127
[16:09:02] <cradek> your analog velocity mode amps will always have some offset, which will look like creeping when the position loop is not closed
[16:09:03] <ssi> so dangit, these drives use DSUB, but they're high density DSUB, and I don't have the shells on hand
[16:09:04] <turbozee> sorry for the ads
[16:09:07] <ssi> figures :/
[16:09:11] <turbozee> but thats a sine wave velocity
[16:17:03] <cradek> 10 more or less
[16:17:04] <turbozee> so then the glass scales get fed to linuxcnc through an interpolator
[16:17:09] <PCW> regardless of load
[16:17:10] <turbozee> which discritizes the positions
[16:17:11] <cradek> it won't go 10 instantly of course
[16:17:30] <turbozee> and there will be a feedback loop within linuxcnc to control the position
[16:17:38] <ssi> yes
[16:17:39] <cradek> yes you need a position loop and pid tuning outside this
[16:17:48] <turbozee> and this is where hardware mesa comes in
[16:17:50] <turbozee> because i need the speeds
[16:18:04] <turbozee> for the feedback loop
[16:18:33] <turbozee> last question!
[16:18:43] <turbozee> glass scales output some sine current wave
[16:18:46] <cradek> the hardware reads position (encoder), sends it to linuxcnc/hal, which outputs velocity, which the hardware sends to your amps via a dac
[16:19:06] <tjtr33> http://www.linuxcnc.org/emc2/index.php/italian/component/content/article/42-emc-internals
[16:19:49] <turbozee> DAC stands for?
[16:20:14] <tjtr33> and some ( esp heidenhain) linear scales output sinus-es. very many are digital output, heid is special
[16:20:43] <tjtr33> and beware old heid output 11uA sinus, newer are 1V p/p sinus.
[16:20:56] <turbozee> tjtr33: can yout ell me what to search on google
[16:21:02] <turbozee> to understand the difference between how glass scales function
[16:21:06] <tjtr33> look at the doc i posted ^^^
[16:21:07] <turbozee> and the signals they generate
[16:22:03] <turbozee> yuor link shows the flow
[16:22:06] <turbozee> of how the signals communicate
[16:23:47] <tjtr33> dont the 1st pics show how sinus is used to get incremental posn change?
[16:24:45] <tjtr33> i suppose it doesnt go deep enuf, i'll look
[16:28:06] <tjtr33> how glass scales function
http://goo.gl/bW2Xua
[16:28:19] <turbozee> that other link is nice
[16:28:28] <turbozee> it shows the general level links
[16:28:32] <turbozee> between the devices
[16:28:45] <turbozee> you are the man
[16:28:50] <turbozee> this ppt is exactly what i need
[16:29:23] <tjtr33> google is you freyand
[16:29:31] <turbozee> well you need to know what to look for
[16:29:33] <turbozee> tahts half the problem
[16:29:48] <turbozee> i was trying to google glass scale how they work
[16:29:51] <turbozee> and nothing was comig up :p
[16:29:56] <tjtr33> yah, try looking up info on HAL or AXIS
[16:30:12] <tjtr33> you get loads that aint what your lookin for
[16:31:07] <tjtr33> or EDM ( lotsa Edmonton Hocket scores :p
[16:31:48] <tjtr33> gnite!
[16:41:53] <turbozee> if these encoders are 'nfg' no f_ good
[16:42:03] <turbozee> i can always throw an encoder on the rear shaft of the servo?
[16:42:08] <turbozee> and get position?
[16:48:21] <PCW> yes
[16:51:47] <turbozee> interesting
[16:51:56] <turbozee> this ppt says they're good for up to 300 ipm
[16:52:01] <turbozee> sweet
[16:52:10] <turbozee> makes sense why they don't get used in modern cnc machines anymore
[16:54:31] <turbozee> damn it no signal info in this ppt :(
[16:55:36] <turbozee> so if the signal period is 4 micron
[16:55:47] <PCW> Newer linear scales are faster
[16:56:03] <turbozee> what is the output on an oscilloscope
[16:56:11] <turbozee> when i traverse from one tick to another
[16:56:14] <turbozee> a pulse?
[16:56:19] <turbozee> pcw oh
[17:01:51] <PCW> direct from the scale you have a sine and cosine current or voltage (either ~11 ua peak or 1V peak)
[17:03:18] <turbozee> how does that sine wave relate to the tick mark?
[17:03:26] <PCW> on full sine/cosine cycle per 4u (if thats the scale resolution)
[17:03:28] <turbozee> every tick mark generates one wave length?
[17:03:32] <PCW> one full
[17:09:09] <turbozee> http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/3/38/Circular_Lissajous.gif
[17:09:29] <turbozee> so when it's idling at no tick mark
[17:09:31] <turbozee> whats the output?
[17:09:41] <turbozee> so confusing!
[17:09:59] <PCW> 2 analog values
[17:10:11] <turbozee> so cos will be 1
[17:10:14] <turbozee> and sin will be 0 for exampel?
[17:10:21] <PCW> could be
[17:10:30] <turbozee> and asap the sensor sees the tick mark
[17:10:34] <turbozee> sine will shoot up to 1
[17:10:39] <turbozee> while the cos will shoot to 0
[17:10:42] <PCW> nope
[17:10:44] <turbozee> oh
[17:11:07] <PCW> they are continuous sine/cosine waveforms
[17:11:20] <PCW> with a period of 4 u
[17:12:12] <turbozee> okay so i am imagining a sine + cosine wave with a period of 4 u constantly being outputted on the oscilloscope while i'm at no tick mark
[17:12:20] <turbozee> what happens to the wave when it sees the tick mark?
[17:15:04] <PCW> the light intensity is modulated by the scale so there is a peak every scale period, its all optical at this point
[17:16:19] <__rob2> can anyone tell me how quickly something like an l298n dc motor driver's break mode will stop a motor ?
[17:16:33] <PCW> the scale is purely analog (the light intensity varies in approximate sinusoidal fashion with scale position)
[17:16:50] <__rob2> I have a 17 optical encoder and I was hoping I would be able to drive it with a control loop to within these sorts of resolutions
[17:16:54] <__rob2> so 0.002 degrees
[17:17:20] <__rob2> Not sure how feasable that is
[17:17:28] <__rob2> 17 bit*
[17:18:07] <PCW> statically you can may be able to get within a count or so , not when moving or with variable loads
[17:18:26] <turbozee> pcw so an interpolator
[17:18:31] <turbozee> is discretizing that signal
[17:18:32] <turbozee> to position
[17:18:40] <turbozee> er digital logic
[17:18:40] <__rob2> well to be honest I only care about where it is, ideally if it stops within 0.05 degrees
[17:18:41] <turbozee> i mean
[17:18:42] <__rob2> thats fine
[17:19:22] <__rob2> the main thing is that it gets from a to b fast
[17:19:41] <__rob2> and stops as close the target position in as short a time as possible
[17:19:43] <PCW> yes basically the interpolator figures out the angle represented by the sine/cosine values and output that somehow
[17:20:14] <ssi> not unlike resolver converters?
[17:20:59] <turbozee> <- is stuipd cause i dont get it still
[17:21:00] <turbozee> lol
[17:21:05] <PCW> yes, except resolvers have a carrier (the "carrier is DC on scales)
[17:21:08] <ssi> right
[17:21:34] <ssi> but what I mean is, is the interpolator emulating a quadrature encoder?
[17:21:36] <turbozee> http://lh3.ggpht.com/_X6JnoL0U4BY/S22RsgmTaTI/AAAAAAAARY4/_lQ4H504fac/s1600/tmpBB55_thumb3.jpg
[17:21:40] <ssi> or what sort of output does the interpolator have
[17:21:46] <PCW> and resolver pitch is huge compared to scales
[17:22:40] <PCW> The (older) Heidehain ones output quadrature
[17:22:42] <turbozee> so signal period is 4 u
[17:23:01] <turbozee> of a normal sine wave
[17:23:14] <turbozee> i dont see how the signal changes!!!1
[17:23:17] <turbozee> when it sees a tickmark!
[17:23:24] <ssi> it changes continuously
[17:23:40] <turbozee> im trying to compare to discrete situations thoug
[17:23:49] <turbozee> where there is no tick mark and when there is one
[17:23:56] <turbozee> ifi m sitting at one tickmark for 2 hours
[17:24:04] <turbozee> ifi m sitting at no tickmark for 2 hours
[17:24:10] <ssi> the signal doesn't change if the encoder isn't moving
[17:24:10] <turbozee> and then move to a tickmark
[17:24:14] <turbozee> OH
[17:24:24] <turbozee> OHHH
[17:24:24] <ssi> it's not a modulated carrier
[17:24:27] <ssi> it's a static value
[17:24:34] <turbozee> omg.
[17:24:43] <turbozee> so it generates a full sine wave when it goes from one tick mark to another
[17:24:46] <turbozee> with a period 4 u.
[17:24:59] <ssi> yes
[17:25:01] <turbozee> i get it now
[17:25:03] <turbozee> lol
[17:25:07] <turbozee> thank you :D
[17:25:29] <ssi> so basically it'll be something like, every time sin is 0 and cos is -1, you're at a tick mark
[17:25:41] <turbozee> yes
[17:25:49] <ssi> and if you measure the value of each and calculate the phase angle
[17:25:55] <ssi> you know exactly where you are between ticks
[17:25:57] <turbozee> so technically you kow
[17:25:57] <turbozee> yea
[17:26:04] <turbozee> right between the tick mark fairly accurately
[17:26:08] <ssi> yes
[17:26:18] <turbozee> build me an interpolator electrical circuit
[17:26:19] <turbozee> :D
[17:26:25] <ssi> probably isn't hard
[17:26:30] <ssi> send me a glass scale and I'll make it
[17:26:34] <turbozee> <3
[17:26:47] <turbozee> will do if i cant scavenge it
[17:26:51] <turbozee> out of the tnc 140
[17:26:54] <turbozee> *150
[17:27:02] <turbozee> im really hoping its a module of its own
[17:27:03] <ssi> while you're at it
[17:27:03] <ssi> http://www.dhl.com/content/g0/en/express/tracking.shtml?AWB=3753821525&brand=DHL
[17:27:05] <turbozee> but likely its not
[17:27:08] <ssi> tell them to hurry up with my hall converter boards
[17:27:16] <turbozee> haha
[17:27:22] <turbozee> its china
[17:27:25] <turbozee> they take their sweet time
[17:27:29] <ssi> yeah
[17:27:34] <ssi> love paying $40 rush fee and $42 shipping
[17:27:40] <ssi> for them to sit on it
[17:27:46] <turbozee> lol
[17:27:55] <turbozee> itw oulda came next year!
[17:28:12] <turbozee> i gotta check how many pins are coming out of the encoders today
[17:28:14] <turbozee> i think its 4
[17:28:34] <ssi> the scales you mean?
[17:28:37] <turbozee> yes
[17:28:42] <turbozee> linear encoders i guess :P
[17:28:52] <turbozee> damn all these terms.
[17:29:14] <ssi> four really?
[17:29:21] <turbozee> i thinkso
[17:29:24] <turbozee> i don't remember exactly
[17:29:27] <turbozee> ill check asap ig et home
[17:29:30] <ssi> if so, that'd have to be something like 5V/gnd/A/B, single ended
[17:29:31] <ssi> no reference
[17:29:57] <ssi> the ones I'm seeing are like A /A B /B R /R 5V GND
[17:30:12] <turbozee> so 8 pin
[17:30:16] <ssi> yep
[17:30:48] <turbozee> damn it tehse students need to finish
[17:30:50] <turbozee> so i can gtfo
[17:31:17] <roycroft> pull the fire alarm
[17:31:25] <turbozee> haha
[17:31:55] <turbozee> tehres gotta be a wayto process the signal
[17:31:56] <turbozee> in linuxcnc
[17:31:57] <turbozee> :-(
[17:32:03] <turbozee> but cpu is prolly too slow
[17:32:13] <ssi> I bet mesa's resolver converter could do it
[17:32:37] <turbozee> mr pcw could prolly tweak it
[17:32:38] <ssi> I really could whip something up pretty easily
[17:32:40] <PCW> Its a different problem
[17:32:58] <PCW> Needs fast low res A-D
[17:33:05] <ssi> how fast?
[17:33:16] <PCW> IC-Haus uses 70MS/Sec
[17:33:25] <turbozee> swap in a faster a-D for me
[17:33:30] <turbozee> and charge me more!
[17:33:31] <turbozee> :D
[17:33:57] <PCW> for you scales 1 MS is probably fast enough
[17:34:15] <PCW> 5u is common
[17:35:17] <PCW> so at 100 mm/s you have 20 KHz sine/cosine signals
[17:35:43] <ssi> that's faster than he'll ever run that machine
[17:35:49] <ssi> ;)
[17:36:07] <turbozee> my scales are
[17:36:09] <turbozee> ls904
[17:36:19] <turbozee> 5 u accuracy
[17:36:30] <turbozee> "resolution depends on interpolation electronics"
[17:36:34] <PCW> if you have 16X interpolation that needs 320 KHz sampling at a minimum
[17:36:47] <turbozee> signal period is 20 ym
[17:36:52] <turbozee> not sure what the heck "y" is
[17:37:08] <PCW> probably u
[17:37:22] <turbozee> http://www.microcontrol.it/files/compatibili_heidenhain.pdf
[17:37:22] <PCW> so 20 micron scales
[17:37:23] <turbozee> last page
[17:37:32] <turbozee> it distinguishes between um and ym
[17:37:41] <turbozee> like it says +/- 5 um and +/-3 ym
[17:38:31] <PCW> Yeti-meters?
[17:38:44] <turbozee> rofl
[17:40:01] <turbozee> yea its a typo
[17:40:42] <turbozee> or something
[17:40:42] <turbozee> 20 u is the period
[17:40:42] <turbozee> so 0.00008"
[17:40:42] <turbozee> thats a little precise1
[17:42:07] <turbozee> 127/20
[17:42:20] <turbozee> 6.35kHz signal
[17:42:29] <turbozee> @ peak rapid of the machine
[17:43:25] <turbozee> pcw please make your resolver circuit for me! :D
[17:47:25] <PetefromTn_> http://knoxville.craigslist.org/tls/4670981220.html How does this guy figure that is a Grizzly machine? it clearly says Central Machinery on it...
[17:49:15] <turbozee> *work for me that is
[17:50:39] <turbozee> http://www.rls.si/products/components/analogue-interpolators
[17:50:41] <turbozee> what the hell
[17:50:44] <turbozee> is it seriously just one chip
[17:50:45] <turbozee> lol
[17:51:45] <roycroft> it's the transitive manufacturing function
[17:51:58] <turbozee> im looking t the spec sheet
[17:52:00] <roycroft> the central machining castings may be made in the same factory as the grizzly
[17:52:00] <turbozee> thsi is exctly what i ened
[17:52:06] <roycroft> at the very least they're made in the same country
[17:52:11] <turbozee> you give it sin cos and ri input
[17:52:19] <turbozee> and it outputs digital A B ri
[17:52:25] <roycroft> therefore, it is the same as grizzly
[17:52:30] <roycroft> therefore, it is grizzly
[17:52:40] <PetefromTn_> well typically the grizzly machines have the plastic cover and the grizzly logo on them.
[17:52:51] <turbozee> lol
[17:53:11] <roycroft> and are actually almost completely different machines
[17:53:32] <roycroft> fit and finish is almost always much better on the grizzly versions
[17:53:45] <roycroft> qc is much better on the grizzlys
[17:54:47] <roycroft> interesting that not only does that post show a central machine plate, it even lists the hf part number, yet still claims it's a grizzly
[17:55:00] <PetefromTn_> which is probably why this guy wants people to THINK it is a grizzly hehe
[17:55:28] <PetefromTn_> that machine brand new was like $850.00 or something back when I was shopping for a small benchtop mill.
[17:56:00] <PetefromTn_> I actually had an RF31 and it was a decent little machine really.
[17:57:29] <roycroft> does the rf31 have a round column or a dovtailed column?
[17:58:02] <PetefromTn_> round column
[17:58:15] <PetefromTn_> my RF45 that I converted to CNC had the dovetail column
[17:58:32] <roycroft> a round column mill without a knee would be a pain in the butt to use, i should think
[17:58:52] <roycroft> unless you were always milling material that's the same thickness
[17:59:03] <PetefromTn_> the RF31 makes a great little heavy duty drill press/second op mill would not mind having one here again..
[17:59:36] <roycroft> as a drill press it would be fine
[17:59:51] <PetefromTn_> actually I made everything for the conversion of my RF45 on that machine as well as many other projects. Build my custom PCP with it as well as the pistol PCP I have here still...
[18:00:34] <PetefromTn_> I originally bought it so I could use it to convert the other mill so I did not have to take the one I was converting apart and put it back together again all the time.
[18:00:52] <roycroft> that makes perfect sense to me
[18:00:52] <PetefromTn_> Kinda wish I had kept it now. Would be great for quick little stuff.
[18:01:09] <roycroft> i know folks do the convert a mill with the same mill thing
[18:01:23] <roycroft> seems that would make for an awful lot of disassembly/reassembly
[18:01:25] <PetefromTn_> you certainaly can but its a pain in the ass..
[18:01:45] <roycroft> unless you have very accurate plans and you're very good and very confident
[18:01:51] <PetefromTn_> if you get a cheap used round column like that it makes things a LOT easier..
[18:02:36] <PetefromTn_> still there is ALWAYS something you will miss and even with the BEST plans these chinese mills are so different there is no telling what you will run into..
[18:03:03] <roycroft> i have a grizzly g0463 (x3 clone)
[18:03:15] <roycroft> my plan is to get a used bridgeport-type mill and convert that
[18:03:30] <roycroft> and use the grizzly to make parts for the conversion
[18:03:39] <PetefromTn_> sounds reasonable.
[18:04:08] <roycroft> and i've had the grizzly for over 4 years now
[18:04:13] <PetefromTn_> as long as the parts you need to machine on will fit in the grizzly.
[18:04:15] <roycroft> i still don't have the bridgeport-like mill
[18:04:32] <roycroft> used mills are pretty scarce around here, and expensive when they are on the market
[18:04:48] <roycroft> we don't have a big manufacturing industry like back east
[18:05:00] <PetefromTn_> where are you?
[18:05:04] <roycroft> western oregon
[18:05:24] <roycroft> so those $2k used bridgeports that you can get in the midwest/ohio area are going for $6k-$8k here
[18:05:29] <PetefromTn_> LOL actually every time I spotted a good deal online for a used CNC or mill it was on the west coast..
[18:05:43] <PetefromTn_> especially down in socal area
[18:05:48] <roycroft> socal sure
[18:05:54] <roycroft> socal is pretty far away
[18:06:00] <turbozee> http://resources.renishaw.com/download.aspx?lang=en&data=22876&btn=1
[18:06:05] <roycroft> it's a 10 hour drive from here to the bay area
[18:06:06] <turbozee> last page
[18:06:09] <PetefromTn_> yeah I was just speaking generally..
[18:06:09] <roycroft> 15 hours or so to la
[18:06:14] <turbozee> anyone know what those things |__|
[18:06:16] <turbozee> are?
[18:06:28] <turbozee> with a 10 u next to it
[18:06:59] <PetefromTn_> Just watch craigslist locally and as far as you are willing to drive....
[18:07:05] <PetefromTn_> I use searchtempest
[18:07:24] <PetefromTn_> it will bring up whatever distance you are willing to drive for whatever you want to search for.
[18:07:30] <PetefromTn_> Found a lot of good deals like that.
[18:07:32] <roycroft> i do watch cl, and ebay as well
[18:07:52] <roycroft> my pickup is only rated at 1/2 ton as well
[18:07:59] <roycroft> i don't mind hauling 1-1/2 tons in it
[18:08:05] <PetefromTn_> LOL
[18:08:08] <roycroft> but not over the mountains, so that cuts out cali completely
[18:08:18] <PetefromTn_> you can always rent a truck
[18:08:21] <roycroft> i'll go to seattle or portland in my pickup
[18:08:28] <PetefromTn_> or do like I did and rent a rolllback wrecker.
[18:08:32] <roycroft> yes, a trip to cali would require a truck
[18:08:39] <roycroft> and that would add considerable expense
[18:08:40] <PetefromTn_> they hauled even my VMC to my shop for me.
[18:09:17] <roycroft> i'm not looking really actively right now, though
[18:09:19] <turbozee> roycroft
[18:09:19] <PetefromTn_> it was much easier than all the other machines I moved really since there was no grunt work... you cannot grunt a machine that big LOL
[18:09:24] <roycroft> i have this router to build
[18:09:27] <roycroft> and a new lathe to get
[18:09:29] <turbozee> build your own mill!
[18:09:29] <turbozee> :D
[18:09:33] <roycroft> i have lots of projects
[18:09:34] <turbozee> get 4 slabs of steel
[18:09:56] <roycroft> i'm buildling my router from scratch
[18:10:05] <roycroft> that should count for something
[18:10:12] <PetefromTn_> what are you making it from?
[18:10:24] <roycroft> 80/20 and aluminium sheet
[18:10:30] <turbozee> $$$
[18:10:30] <turbozee> :D
[18:10:32] <PetefromTn_> okay nice.
[18:10:33] <turbozee> what size
[18:10:45] <roycroft> 2'x3'x8", roughly
[18:11:04] <turbozee> nice
[18:11:45] <roycroft> i need to work on the design for that tonight some more
[18:12:04] <roycroft> i got a good deal on ball screws that are close to the size i want
[18:12:16] <roycroft> so i bought those and am designing the rest of it around the ball screws
[18:13:56] <roycroft> but i have a couple batches of beer to keg first
[18:14:07] <roycroft> one most always prioratize things properly
[18:14:11] <roycroft> and beer > router
[18:14:48] <turbozee> lol
[18:16:23] <PetefromTn_> yeah but if you build the router first.........you can make cool signs and stuff for your buds........then they will buy you beer or beer brewing supplies.......and all will be right with the world!!
[18:16:33] <turbozee> http://www.ebay.com/itm/HEIDENHAIN-EXE-610C-INTERPOLATION-ENCODER-BOARD-W-PLUG-26348301-/181479677624?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item2a41081eb8
[18:16:42] <turbozee> looks like heidenhain makes standalne nterpolator boards
[18:16:43] <turbozee> sweet!!!
[18:22:59] <roycroft> i'll be using the router in part to engrave control panels for brewing systems
[18:23:35] <roycroft> but the bottom line is that it will all get done
[18:24:56] <tjtr33> turbozee, google EXE boxes, theres a load of style and multiplication factors. i use 'em to make digital out of expensive, otherwise useless Heidenhain slaces
[18:25:02] <tjtr33> scales wow
[18:25:24] <turbozee> is there one
[18:25:30] <turbozee> where it'll take 3 different scale inputs
[18:25:32] <turbozee> and output ttl?
[18:25:45] <turbozee> from the EXE boxes im seeing it takes only 1 scale input
[18:26:03] <tjtr33> yeah, that was a typical product ( handles 3 scales )
[18:26:25] <tjtr33> read their literature
[18:27:49] <turbozee> theyre pretty cheap on ebay
[18:28:46] <turbozee> http://www.heidenhain.com/fileadmin/pdb/media/img/598_010-21.pdf
[18:28:53] <tjtr33> http://www.practicalmachinist.com/vb/dmg-mori-gildemeister-maho-cnc/maho-mh400e-retrofit-linuxcnc-277268/ pretty damn specific
[18:28:55] <turbozee> im assuming I1+ I1-
[18:28:59] <turbozee> is for scale 1
[18:29:06] <turbozee> andI2+ I2- is for scale 2
[18:30:07] <turbozee> NM
[18:30:09] <turbozee> its not.
[18:30:24] <tjtr33> they'll sell you a pci card too, remember Heidenhain is very expensive, and very good
[18:30:36] <turbozee> <- can only buy used
[18:30:36] <turbozee> :D
[18:32:19] <tjtr33> likely all you'll find, like machine tools most of this stuff is outdated in a couple years, and used is all there is
[18:33:02] <tjtr33> luckily Heidenhain is so costly to repair, you may find machines for free parts
[18:33:15] <turbozee> haha
[18:33:22] <turbozee> <- is going to try to extract
[18:33:26] <turbozee> the interpolator
[18:33:34] <turbozee> cause if its going toc ost me me anymore than 200-300
[18:33:40] <turbozee> imjust going to sell the scales
[18:33:45] <turbozee> and through in rotary encoders.
[18:33:53] <turbozee> *throw
[18:34:07] <tjtr33> if you use the ICHaus chips, maybe. past my skills
[18:34:08] <turbozee> but i'd like to keep the scales if i can
[18:34:53] <tjtr33> scales measure where the table is, encoders mearue where the screw is turned to, very arguable, truly moot
[18:35:03] <turbozee> exactly
[18:35:12] <turbozee> scales are superior
[18:35:18] <turbozee> backlash doesnt effect em!
[18:35:18] <turbozee> :P
[18:35:49] <tjtr33> high grade middle european machine tools use scales. japanses use encoders... i use a ruler so it doesnt bother me
[18:35:57] <turbozee> haha
[18:36:08] <turbozee> yay its home time
[18:36:16] <turbozee> will be back
[19:26:08] <PCW> turbozee:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Heidenhain-IDP-101-Encoder-Interpolation-Interface-11uA-to-TTL-262417-03-/281448570707?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_2&hash=item4187a45f53
[19:26:10] <PCW> 3x 11 ua to TTL 5x or 10X (so 1 u or 1/2 u resolution with your scales) $29.95 buy it now
[19:27:39] <PCW> (but you may find something similar in your controller box already)
[19:40:16] <zeeshan|2> thank you!
[19:40:30] <zeeshan|2> what does 5 or 10 fold interpolation mean?
[19:40:48] <zeeshan|2> if 4 u is the resolution you can get to 4/5
[19:40:52] <zeeshan|2> through interpolation?
[19:41:04] <zeeshan|2> resolution = distance between tick marks
[19:48:44] <tjtr33> good find , be careful , theres a reason those thing are usually in cast metal cases. 11uA doesnt take a lot of noise to screw up.
[19:49:10] <zeeshan|2> i can throw it in a box
[19:50:55] <tjtr33> i dont see the 3x , but cheap for 1x
[19:51:24] <zeeshan|2> in a few
[19:51:30] <zeeshan|2> im gonna go rip apart the tnc 150
[19:51:35] <zeeshan|2> and see if there is a seperate board in there
[19:52:05] <tjtr33> just past the round encoder connector, often at a 45 deg to main board
[19:52:33] <PCW> 5 or 10 times scale resolution *4 so a 20 u scale will have 1 or .5 u resolution
[19:52:43] <tjtr33> you should be able to find service manuals on web
[19:52:45] <zeeshan|2> ah pcw
[19:52:51] <zeeshan|2> tjtr33:
http://t0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcRaGPL2F-QyxQBungDsgfGcOFC2fMoIwWnJvsaXEGcF3BIwEm85
[19:52:57] <zeeshan|2> http://www.tecnoinricambimacchineutensili.com/WebRoot/StoreIT4/Shops/60411/536A/2DBF/B992/0E22/F12C/3E95/9310/A2AA/Ricambi_Macchine_Utensili_Tecno_In_srl_Heidenhain_CNC_Controllo_Numerico_TNC_150.JPG
[19:52:59] <zeeshan|2> i mean that image
[19:53:03] <zeeshan|2> we're talking about that box right? :D
[19:53:18] <zeeshan|2> http://www.tecnoinricambimacchineutensili.com/WebRoot/StoreIT4/Shops/60411/536A/2DBF/B992/0E22/F12C/3E95/9310/A2AA/Heidenhain_CNC_Controllo_Numerico_TNC_150_Tecno_In_srl.jpg
[19:53:21] <zeeshan|2> it looks like in th eback
[19:53:29] <zeeshan|2> theres where i'm going to start investigating :D
[19:53:51] <tjtr33> thats just the operator panel, i use these thing (TNC150) for hole drills
[19:54:03] <tjtr33> i think i got some in garage
[19:54:09] <zeeshan|2> im pretty sure the encoders
[19:54:12] <zeeshan|2> are feeding into that..
[19:54:16] <zeeshan|2> they go no where to the main panel
[19:54:23] <zeeshan|2> *main electrical box that is
[19:55:45] <tjtr33> http://content.heidenhain.de/doku/oma_controls/CD1/tnc/150/gb/sa150.pdf
[19:56:57] <tjtr33> page 33
[19:57:54] <tjtr33> page 64
[19:59:13] <zeeshan|2> damn it
[19:59:19] <zeeshan|2> i wish i could speak german haha
[19:59:52] <tjtr33> google translate is you friend stellgeshwindekeit
[20:00:21] <tjtr33> ขายบานนอคดาวน บานเรือนไทย ศาลาเรือนไทย ขนาดตางๆ เป็ นบานที่อยุอาศัย ที่พักตากอากาศ!
[20:00:48] <zeeshan|2> oh
[20:00:52] <zeeshan|2> i think its a seperate board
[20:00:58] <tjtr33> iirc
[20:01:01] <zeeshan|2> page 50 on the actual papers
[20:01:09] <zeeshan|2> lists "analog board"
[20:01:13] <zeeshan|2> page 61
[20:01:52] <tjtr33> careful, this is an analog cnc control, so it outputs analog velocity commands ( not pwm , real analog )
[20:02:08] <zeeshan|2> oh
[20:02:24] <zeeshan|2> i dpont know if you know this
[20:02:26] <tjtr33> haha what desktop do i have that open on?
[20:02:35] <zeeshan|2> but i'm trying to retrofit it in linuxcnc
[20:02:42] <zeeshan|2> so the feedback position loop will be through linuxcnc
[20:02:46] <zeeshan|2> using mesa hardware
[20:03:59] <tjtr33> yes good choice, i'm thinking to replace TNC416 with mesa
[20:04:19] <tjtr33> and others have done MAHOs with TNC and MESA ( again google )
[20:04:22] <zeeshan|2> thats why im trying to scavenge the parts
[20:04:32] <zeeshan|2> things like interpolator boards
[20:04:34] <zeeshan|2> servo amp
[20:04:35] <zeeshan|2> etc
[20:04:50] <zeeshan|2> so i can throw them into another cabinet
[20:04:54] <zeeshan|2> and simplify :P
[20:06:11] <tjtr33> hmm, i dunno if someone sugggested they could read the sinus already. search the old irc archives ( psha's is searchable I think, and (sob) MHA's seems dead :(
[20:06:21] <CaptHindsight> nicht zu machin mit dem smokesgeputtin!
[20:06:42] <tjtr33> gestunk! vermished! verblungened!
[20:06:58] <tjtr33> nicht fer der fingerpoken
[20:07:07] <CaptHindsight> yah yah
[20:08:08] <CaptHindsight> or der sparksgeflyin
[20:10:25] <PCW> zeeshan|2: the TNC manual shows EXE interpolators external to the controller box
[20:10:48] <PCW> so somewhere else on the machine
[20:14:33] <tjtr33> i think maybe it is in this box, the book says the measuring signals are processed on the analog board CLP board read page 48 sec 4.1
[20:15:20] <tjtr33> i dont recall using EXE's on TNC 150, the control was used on cheap <20K$ hole poppers
[20:19:20] <PCW> Page 61 of the manual shows them
[20:19:42] <tjtr33> soory on vid conf, will check thx PCW
[20:21:56] <zeeshan|2> pcw
[20:21:59] <zeeshan|2> i found the interpolator
[20:22:03] <zeeshan|2> it's within the tnc 150 box
[20:22:19] <zeeshan|2> unless im looking at the wrong thing
[20:23:10] <zeeshan|2> pcw that's so weird.
[20:23:16] <zeeshan|2> it does say external
[20:23:18] <zeeshan|2> but ifound this:
[20:23:39] <PCW> Yeah but page 48 says only for long cables
[20:25:28] <zeeshan|2> https://www.flickr.com/photos/128539016@N05/15536189301/
[20:25:30] <zeeshan|2> thats the board
[20:25:43] <zeeshan|2> the stuff on the right is handwheel
[20:25:48] <ssi> omg donuts
[20:25:49] <zeeshan|2> stuff on the left is 4 axis encoder
[20:26:03] <zeeshan|2> the top black connectors are where the inputs are
[20:26:08] <zeeshan|2> but i'm gonna find it almost impossible
[20:26:11] <zeeshan|2> to figure out where the outputs are
[20:26:26] <zeeshan|2> it might be easier just to buy that board you linked to
[20:26:44] <zeeshan|2> https://www.flickr.com/photos/128539016@N05/15538891175/
[20:26:45] <zeeshan|2> seriously
[20:26:48] <zeeshan|2> theres a CRAP load of pins
[20:26:48] <zeeshan|2> ahha
[20:27:28] <zeeshan|2> the circuit board in the scanned file
[20:27:33] <zeeshan|2> is almost unreadable!
[20:28:07] <zeeshan|2> nm
[20:28:22] <zeeshan|2> man ireally like these old circuit boards
[20:28:24] <zeeshan|2> they're so pretty
[20:28:38] <zeeshan|2> look so easy to repair
[20:28:41] <zeeshan|2> if a component fails
[20:30:40] <ssi> http://www.ebay.com/itm/High-Power-AMC-4-5-Axis-Brushless-Servo-Amplifier-Amp-Package-S30A40-S100A40AC-/321548297113?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item4addc5a399
[20:30:43] <ssi> holy balls
[20:30:52] <ssi> that 100A 400V drive
[20:31:05] <zeeshan|2> ah
[20:31:09] <zeeshan|2> i didnt know amc stood for advanced motion controls
[20:31:13] <ssi> the S30A40s are what I'm looking for... S30A20 would work as well
[20:31:14] <zeeshan|2> they make some fancy drives
[20:31:18] <ssi> yeah I like them
[20:31:20] <zeeshan|2> thats what our school uses for a lot of lab equipment
[20:31:31] <ssi> I just got a pair of SE10A20AC drives in the mail today
[20:31:38] <ssi> they're perfect except for the current rating :/
[20:31:42] <zeeshan|2> how much
[20:31:43] <zeeshan|2> amp
[20:31:49] <ssi> 5A continuous, 10A peak
[20:31:53] <zeeshan|2> weaksauce
[20:31:54] <zeeshan|2> :D
[20:31:57] <ssi> yeah :(
[20:32:01] <zeeshan|2> prolly can use em for something else
[20:32:13] <zeeshan|2> one can always use a servo drive
[20:32:14] <zeeshan|2> and a servo motor
[20:32:15] <zeeshan|2> somewhere!
[20:32:19] <ssi> I'm still not really clear on what current I need
[20:32:24] <ssi> these motors are marked 6.8A
[20:32:29] <zeeshan|2> at what volts
[20:32:30] <ssi> but I don't know if that's peak or continuous or what
[20:32:30] <zeeshan|2> though
[20:32:38] <ssi> well they're labeled 110V
[20:32:45] <ssi> but apparently that means 190VDC :P
[20:32:49] <zeeshan|2> wat
[20:32:49] <zeeshan|2> how
[20:33:01] <ssi> well 110V rectified and filtered
[20:33:14] <ssi> I'm just still a little foggy on the way they rate these things
[20:33:23] <zeeshan|2> servo amplifiers
[20:33:26] <zeeshan|2> need filtered power?
[20:33:29] <ssi> I guess it's rated in Vrms and Arms
[20:33:47] <ssi> we're talking about motors here
[20:33:54] <zeeshan|2> oh okay
[20:34:01] <zeeshan|2> Yo guys!
[20:34:02] <zeeshan|2> german people
[20:34:07] <zeeshan|2> please help me diagnose!
[20:34:17] <zeeshan|2> https://www.flickr.com/photos/128539016@N05/15538891175/
[20:34:20] <zeeshan|2> where are those pins going! :P
[20:34:54] <zeeshan|2> ssi
[20:34:56] <zeeshan|2> so if you use th ose amps
[20:35:01] <zeeshan|2> it'll just not output as much torque
[20:35:05] <zeeshan|2> big deal! :P
[20:35:07] <ssi> yeah
[20:35:20] <ssi> I'm planning on running them until a deal on some SE30A20s comes along
[20:35:25] <ssi> also I only have two of them!
[20:35:26] <ssi> heh
[20:35:38] <ssi> I have some BE25A20 drives coming next week
[20:35:42] <ssi> three of them
[20:35:48] <ssi> they would do the job, but they're trapezoidal drive
[20:35:56] <ssi> and in order to use them I'll need even better hall converters :)
[20:36:05] <ssi> and I'd prefer to have sinusoidal commutation if at all possible
[20:39:20] <zeeshan|2> :D
[21:12:38] <tjtr33> i dont know if we have the same document, but page 61 of mine shows 4 interfaces stacked up, they are inside the box. they are the 4 inputs on zeeshan|2 's photo at top
[21:13:00] <tjtr33> the top 4 cnxrs go to the 4 round encoder cable connectors on outrside of box
[21:13:18] <tjtr33> back to taiwan call...
[21:13:35] <zeeshan|2> tjtr33: yea
[21:13:42] <zeeshan|2> i honestly think its easier to buy the box
[21:13:47] <zeeshan|2> its only 90 bux for those 3
[21:13:48] <zeeshan|2> :P
[21:17:21] <tjtr33> you need 3 or 4 axis or hominy you need?
[21:17:55] <zeeshan|2> 3 axis
[21:19:04] <tjtr33> your scales have round connectro with a large ctr pin or 3 small pins in cebter?
[21:19:14] <tjtr33> center
[21:19:43] <tjtr33> the cable that cnx to the TNC
[21:19:47] <zeeshan|2> from what i see 8 pins in a circle
[21:19:56] <zeeshan|2> and big pin in middle
[21:20:01] <zeeshan|2> at the tnc side
[21:20:27] <tjtr33> and 1 bigger brass pin in center of circle? ( 9 pin Saurneau connector)?
[21:20:39] <tjtr33> yah, ok
[21:20:45] <tjtr33> lemme look up something
[21:27:46] <tjtr33> sorry i thought we used a ttl converter at one time, cant find prints to prove it though
[21:27:54] <zeeshan|2> its okay
[21:49:28] <zeeshan|2> http://i.ebayimg.com/00/s/MTYwMFgxMjAw/z/knIAAOxynwlTdAuU/$_57.JPG
[21:49:33] <zeeshan|2> wher is this board getting power from
[21:49:39] <zeeshan|2> at that 5v and 0 v?
[21:49:42] <zeeshan|2> pin hole?
[21:52:29] <XXCoder> its powered by radation decay
[22:04:35] <PetefromTn_> jeez man I need to setup a website LOL
[22:05:02] <PetefromTn_> Ebay is kind of a pain really.
[22:05:26] <PetefromTn_> any of you guys have a good suggestion about how to get started with that for cheap or free?
[22:05:56] <PetefromTn_> Sorry for the off topic.
[22:10:45] <Tom_itx> free is good
[22:10:53] <Tom_itx> i have a server in the closet
[22:11:02] <PetefromTn_> yeah that would be nice LOL
[22:11:14] <Tom_itx> just a pc
[22:11:18] <Tom_itx> no kbd or monitor
[22:11:26] <Tom_itx> power cord & cat5 is it
[22:11:33] <PetefromTn_> been watching youtube on how to setup with storefront etc..
[22:12:01] <PetefromTn_> how would you go about setting up a domain name and everything
[22:12:16] <PetefromTn_> I am sure I could setup a PC just for this relatively easily
[22:12:32] <Tom_itx> just get a free one from ddns
[22:12:42] <PetefromTn_> ddns?
[22:12:47] <Tom_itx> unless you want to register a domain
[22:13:05] <PetefromTn_> this is going to be for my business so I guess so.
[22:13:39] <Tom_itx> jt has his on a remote server
[22:13:50] <PetefromTn_> I have had a BUNCH of customers tell me I should get a website and now that I have a couple products and more designs on the way it seems like a good idea anyways.
[22:14:10] <PetefromTn_> plus it would be nice to have a blog spot for goings on in the shop etc.
[22:14:32] <Tom_itx> you've seen mine
[22:14:45] <Tom_itx> it costs $.00
[22:14:48] <PetefromTn_> have I?
[22:14:53] <Tom_itx> i'm sure
[22:15:07] <Tom_itx> http://tom-itx.ddns01.com:81/~webpage/index.php
[22:15:19] <Tom_itx> odd address with no registerd domain but i don't care
[22:15:27] <Tom_itx> it lets me post stuff
[22:15:33] <PetefromTn_> hey that is not bad.
[22:15:57] <Tom_itx> it's pretty old now
[22:16:00] <PetefromTn_> I have the PC in my den that just gets used by my kids I could probably setup for the server and get another one for them.
[22:16:07] <Tom_itx> i just keep throwing more crap up ther
[22:16:29] <Tom_itx> it also has my bot on it
[22:16:32] <Tom_itx> zlog
[22:16:32] <PetefromTn_> I understand a domain name can be bought for like $12-15 a year or something like that.
[22:16:40] <Tom_itx> yeah
[22:16:46] <Tom_itx> i like free
[22:16:59] <PetefromTn_> can you setup a storefront for free too?
[22:17:01] <Tom_itx> if i were selling alot of stuff i probably would too
[22:17:09] <Tom_itx> probably
[22:17:29] <PetefromTn_> the nice thing about a remote server is it will always be online
[22:17:38] <PetefromTn_> even if your internet goes down
[22:17:38] <Tom_itx> you hope
[22:17:43] <PetefromTn_> yeah LOL
[22:17:48] <Tom_itx> jt's has gone down a time or two
[22:18:04] <PetefromTn_> is that for his motorcycle stuff...
[22:18:12] <Tom_itx> that and all his other stuff
[22:18:14] <PetefromTn_> or whatever that three wheeler thing is.
[22:18:15] <Tom_itx> gnipsel
[22:18:38] <PetefromTn_> did he ever mention how much he pays for it monthly?
[22:19:10] <Tom_itx> i don't recall
[22:19:16] <Tom_itx> it's probably not much
[22:19:22] <Tom_itx> server space and a domain
[22:19:48] <PetefromTn_> there are a bunch of youtube videos that say you can do it for pretty cheap with online storage.
[22:20:18] <PetefromTn_> one said to use wordpress and something like go daddy or hostgator etc.
[22:21:14] <MacGalempsy> hello
[22:21:48] <MacGalempsy> got some 220v in the garage today, so it looks like its time to get the CNC powered up and back to programming linux cnc
[22:32:45] <PetefromTn_> Hey mac glad to hear it man..
[22:33:03] <PetefromTn_> how far have you gotten with the little VMC?
[22:38:08] <zeeshan|2> tjtr33: still there?
[22:38:32] <zeeshan|2> i found something weird on the machine
[22:38:36] <zeeshan|2> that i have no idea what it is lol
[22:38:58] <ssi> lol
[22:39:19] <pcw_home> is it ticking?
[22:39:58] <tjtr33> ?
[22:40:07] <ssi> it's a swiss machine... everything on it ticks
[22:42:24] <XXCoder> including ticks
[22:43:09] <tjtr33> we had these swiss edms, they had the typical square buttons that light up.
[22:43:16] <tjtr33> there was on time off time,
[22:43:16] <tjtr33> we added square magnets same size as the buttons. labeled them beer time & lunch time
[22:49:20] <zeeshan|2> sec
[22:49:22] <zeeshan|2> uploadung
[22:50:33] <Tom_itx> PetefromTn_?
[22:50:43] <zeeshan|2> tjtr33: ready for this?!?! :D
[22:50:49] <zeeshan|2> https://www.flickr.com/photos/128539016@N05/15536981611/
[22:50:51] <zeeshan|2> what the heck are those?!?!
[22:51:01] <zeeshan|2> https://www.flickr.com/photos/128539016@N05/15536981831/
[22:51:04] <zeeshan|2> theres 3 of them!
[22:51:05] <XXCoder> hm I now rememebr about someone having project to rebuild tiny mill into cnc
[22:51:11] <XXCoder> but forgot who
[22:51:22] <zeeshan|2> i think Tom_itx has a small mill
[22:51:24] <zeeshan|2> converted to cnc :P
[22:51:30] <ssi> zeeshan|2: brakes?
[22:51:36] <zeeshan|2> brakes?!
[22:51:40] <ssi> not sure
[22:51:44] <zeeshan|2> it's so weird
[22:52:01] <zeeshan|2> i took off the black cap
[22:52:07] <zeeshan|2> and i defeinitely see some sort of motor
[22:52:14] <zeeshan|2> well it has coils :P
[22:52:18] <zeeshan|2> whether it is a motor, i dont know :D
[22:52:29] <ssi> could be a motor, or a brake, or a tachogenerator :)
[22:52:33] <XXCoder> would it plunge that gear thing inwards?
[22:52:37] <XXCoder> if so, could be brake?
[22:52:50] <zeeshan|2> it makes no sense why they'd have 3 of them?
[22:53:14] <zeeshan|2> this machine is full of suprises
[22:53:18] <zeeshan|2> just when ithink i know whats going on
[22:53:24] <zeeshan|2> i find something that throws me completely off
[22:53:24] <zeeshan|2> haha
[22:53:32] <XXCoder> heh well good exp for ya
[22:53:52] <zeeshan|2> well hopefully me asking tons of questions helps eomeone else in the future :P
[22:54:00] <XXCoder> zeeshan|2 have leveled up! (Mill 34)
[22:54:05] <zeeshan|2> haha
[22:54:29] <tjtr33> no idea, i dont even know what kinda machine it is, mill? brand? model. did you try to google it?
[22:54:38] <zeeshan|2> its a mikron wf21c
[22:54:42] <zeeshan|2> i believe a lot of the mahos are the same.
[22:54:53] <zeeshan|2> i tried googling it, but did not find any manuals
[22:55:00] <zeeshan|2> i actually looked for many hours
[22:55:06] <zeeshan|2> i think even mr CaptHindsight the google expert
[22:55:08] <zeeshan|2> looked for a while
[22:55:51] <ssi> mister captain?
[22:56:02] <zeeshan|2> ?!
[22:57:54] <zeeshan|2> https://www.flickr.com/photos/128539016@N05/15540544082/
[22:57:55] <zeeshan|2> better picture
[22:58:00] <zeeshan|2> of showing wher eit's located on the machine
[22:58:26] <ssi> the pinions on them are running in some kind of ring gear it looks like
[22:58:32] <ssi> what are those ring gears linked to
[22:58:37] <zeeshan|2> honestly dude
[22:58:40] <zeeshan|2> it looks like a solid plate
[22:58:44] <zeeshan|2> with a ring gear in it
[22:58:44] <zeeshan|2> haha
[22:59:17] <tjtr33> dunno, maybe part of spindle gear selectors
[22:59:24] <zeeshan|2> hey.
[22:59:25] <ssi> ooh maybe
[22:59:27] <zeeshan|2> that might be it
[22:59:35] <zeeshan|2> cause its VERY near the spindle motor
[23:00:14] <zeeshan|2> nice
[23:00:19] <zeeshan|2> i think that might actually be it!
[23:00:28] <zeeshan|2> im going to take it off
[23:00:32] <CaptHindsight> just found a few specksgehsheetin no manuals :(
[23:00:48] <zeeshan|2> CaptHindsight: what is this german you speak
[23:01:01] <zeeshan|2> ssi so i was trying to figur eout the pins
[23:01:22] <zeeshan|2> by probing where the wires go from the servo connector (5 pin)
[23:01:24] <CaptHindsight> blinkenlights dialect :)
[23:01:36] <zeeshan|2> i only found 2.
[23:01:37] <zeeshan|2> https://www.flickr.com/photos/128539016@N05/14914683954/in/photostream/
[23:01:40] <zeeshan|2> out of these 2 big pins
[23:01:50] <zeeshan|2> theres 2 pins that go to the servo amplifier
[23:02:03] <zeeshan|2> those same pins have a resistor in series with them that is switched on by the controller
[23:02:10] <zeeshan|2> which i think causes the motors to brake.
[23:02:50] <zeeshan|2> i wish i could find pinouts for these motors :/
[23:04:56] <zeeshan|2> i took a better pic of that transformer
[23:05:01] <zeeshan|2> that said 96/160V
[23:05:04] <zeeshan|2> https://www.flickr.com/photos/128539016@N05/15539676825/in/photostream/
[23:05:10] <zeeshan|2> those black wires are L1 l2 l3
[23:05:17] <zeeshan|2> black brown blue is u v w
[23:05:26] <zeeshan|2> wiring gives no clue as to what this transformer is outputting
