#linuxcnc | Logs for 2014-10-13

[00:18:48] <Connor> zeeshan was that picture of the hydraulics you was talking about?
[00:23:32] <gammax> recomendations on vises?
[00:23:42] <XXCoder> Kurt
[00:23:45] <gammax> besides a kurt? I need one at a good price
[00:24:01] <Connor> Glacern
[00:24:07] <XXCoder> kurt is good to me so far but I dont know any other
[00:24:26] <Connor> For "economical" Shars has some.. but.. not Kurt or Glacern
[00:25:14] <gammax> shars... forgot about them
[00:25:36] <gammax> getting my shop back up and running... currently only have the stock ones that came with my pm45 and one from enco a long time ago!
[02:03:24] <Deejay> moin
[06:05:47] * Loetmichel has just been delivered three mp3 radios.. *haach how cute!* and they sound quite well for such a tiny ting *charging battery* -> http://www.cyrom.org/palbum/main.php?g2_itemId=15338 http://www.ebay.de/itm/271611608222 :-)
[07:02:05] <anomynous> is there a program which would visualize lathe programs?
[07:03:54] <jdh> something other than axis backplot?
[07:05:34] <anomynous> where i would have a means to define part profile and then cutter movements would be visualized
[07:12:51] <Jymmm> anomynous: What jdh said.
[07:28:20] <Tom_itx> any good cad cam will
[07:32:25] <anomynous> thanks all. Still cant pick one, though. Are there ones written in python?
[07:32:45] <anomynous> i wanna use external editor =)
[09:52:43] <gammax> morning all
[10:09:12] <ssi> morn
[10:40:51] <gammax> Does lcnc have anything built in for accuracy when it comes to steppers? IE, steppers with encoders to show fault?
[10:41:39] <ssi> yeah it can be done
[10:43:21] <archivist> probably better to get servos when bothered about accuracy
[10:46:10] <CaptHindsight> I always thought the reasoning behind open loop was that the system is designed so that the chances of missing or gaining a step are extremely low
[10:46:34] <CaptHindsight> step or fraction of a step
[10:46:59] <archivist> yes but then they assume microsteps gives them insane accuracy!
[10:47:43] <CaptHindsight> yeah, It comes down to poor design and then they blame the steppers
[10:48:56] <archivist> unrealistic expectations I think
[10:50:04] <ssi> http://www.ebay.com/itm/FANUC-SPINDLE-MOTOR-FAN-A90L-0001-0318-R-/310879384995?pt=US_Heavy_Equipment&hash=item4861daf5a3
[10:50:08] <ssi> THAT ONE isn't packed in grease!
[10:51:05] <CaptHindsight> it's broken in so you don't have to wait to use it at full power
[10:51:32] <ssi> no check this out
[10:51:32] <ssi> https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Bzy4eJuIQAA5nyh.jpg:large
[10:51:37] <ssi> mine was PACKED with grease
[10:51:44] <ssi> between that metal ring and the top of the housing
[10:51:48] <ssi> this pic is after I was trying to clean it up
[10:51:55] <ssi> oand I was pulling HANDFULS of clean grease out
[10:52:05] <ssi> the fan blade tips were actually running in the grease
[10:52:08] <ssi> I can't imagine why that was there
[10:52:22] <ssi> and I'm trying to figure out if I need to repack it when I put it back together
[10:52:42] <CaptHindsight> maybe they though it was a grease pump, like an auto lube
[10:52:49] <ssi> lol
[10:52:53] <ssi> how'd they get it in there?!
[10:53:53] <CaptHindsight> were they trying to quiet the spindle?
[10:54:00] <CaptHindsight> who knows
[10:54:15] <archivist> it leaked from the spindle
[10:54:38] <ssi> archivist: really?
[10:55:08] <archivist> or from some other place
[10:55:19] <ssi> the spindle would make sense
[10:55:34] <ssi> airflow is up, it'd suck it up from the spindle and centrifugally deposit it along the outside
[10:55:44] <ssi> well but I mean from teh motor
[10:55:45] <ssi> not the spindle itself
[10:56:08] <archivist> spindle bearings and any other leak
[10:56:33] <ssi> it's like a whole tube of grease though
[10:56:35] <ssi> and it seems clean
[10:56:58] <archivist> is the pressure relief blocked on the lube supply over pressurising the bearing seals
[10:57:25] <ssi> I don't think this machine has auto-lube
[10:57:37] <ssi> I know all the linear bearings have zerks that need to be manually serviced
[10:58:30] <archivist> any pneumatics that carried lube to the tool change
[10:59:55] <ssi> k well I'll assume then that i don't have to repack that housing with grease
[11:00:11] <ssi> I'm gonna wash it in the parts washer, which is kerosene right now, hopefully that plastic will hold up :)
[11:03:01] <pcw_home> Nooo! you will ruin the special grease cooled spindle
[11:04:04] <ssi> SPAYSHUL?!
[11:04:42] <ssi> this machine has a spindle chiller too, although I haven't quite figured out how that works yet
[11:05:38] <CaptHindsight> does it circulate water?
[11:05:41] <archivist> grease cooling too!
[11:05:45] <ssi> yeah
[11:07:59] <SpeedEvil> On really great machines, you can use the lube spray as a smoke machine.
[11:10:10] <CaptHindsight> good tip so close to Halloween
[11:11:26] <ssi> so I picked up a third hangar
[11:11:31] <ssi> I have A1, A3, and A4
[11:11:36] <ssi> and I convinced the guy in A2 to swap into A4
[11:11:41] <ssi> so I will have three in a row
[11:11:59] <CaptHindsight> nice
[11:12:36] <ssi> I'm going to migrate the whole machine shop down there
[11:13:42] <gammax> anyone see an old machine that the paint is coming off with your finger cause the machine is so nasty?
[11:13:53] <ssi> yeah, the one I'm working on is that way :(
[11:14:44] <gammax> how do you get rid of all that stuff? Ive been trying to think how I can possibly refinish a unit like that....
[11:14:54] <ssi> wire brush :)
[11:15:09] <gammax> thats a lot of work!
[11:16:04] <SpeedEvil> Ultrasonic cleaner
[11:16:07] <gammax> how do you prep for paint?
[11:16:10] <gammax> citrus cleaner?
[11:16:25] <gammax> SpeedEvil: the entire knee mill? lol
[11:16:41] <ssi> lots of degreaser
[11:16:49] <ssi> and then acetone or a paint prep cleaner right before you paint
[11:17:41] <archivist> gammax, wire brush is how I clean my stuff
[11:17:48] <SpeedEvil> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6YbzAGa5sdY gammax
[11:18:00] <SpeedEvil> (and no, it's not - quite - that big
[11:18:19] <CaptHindsight> http://techcrunch.com/2014/10/12/3-8m-pi/ Raspberry Pi Sales Approach 4 Million
[11:18:44] <CaptHindsight> proof, people care more about price than open
[11:19:08] <CaptHindsight> or about where it comes from or who makes it
[11:20:07] <SpeedEvil> It's not only that.
[11:20:27] <archivist> gammax, http://www.collection.archivist.info/searchv13.php?searchstr=barber+colman
[11:20:33] <SpeedEvil> In the months before the Pi launch, I recall about ~10 'mass media' things I came across mentioning it
[11:20:45] <SpeedEvil> Including a couple of mentions by actual government ministers
[11:21:07] <SpeedEvil> That is basically unprecedented - and none of thecompetitors have that
[11:21:27] <CaptHindsight> Apple proved what hype does
[11:22:40] <CaptHindsight> oh well
[11:27:21] <CaptHindsight> and duino's are successful even though the hardware might be overpriced but the developer tools are easy to use
[11:29:00] <jdh> for a dev board type setup, I don't think they are overpriced.
[11:29:28] <jdh> or maybe they are, I don't think I've ever bought a real one.
[11:30:03] <jdh> http://moderndevice.com/product/rbbb-kit/
[11:30:04] <CaptHindsight> http://delta.firepick.org/ uses duino and Rpi
[11:30:07] <__rob> CaptHindsight: people care about price because most of them are probabally using it for media streaming on their tbv
[11:30:08] <__rob> tv
[11:30:12] <jdh> I have some of the RBBBs
[11:30:30] <__rob> I reckon its a small fraction of them who use the pi for actual development
[11:31:17] <zeeshan|2> gammax if its that bad
[11:31:21] <zeeshan|2> you can always try to power wash it
[11:32:01] <zeeshan|2> w/ degrease solution
[11:34:09] <CaptHindsight> __rob: I though most people used those <$30 USB dongles for streaming. The article doesn't say how people are using the Rpi's
[11:34:23] <CaptHindsight> that would be interesting
[11:35:39] <__rob> I know a few people who bought them, bought a nice box, and stuck on xbmc
[11:36:05] <__rob> I have been planning to do the same and replace my intel atom streaming box
[11:36:17] <__rob> it can't hack netflix in hd
[11:36:59] <CaptHindsight> http://www.aliexpress.com/item/Google-Android-Allwinner-A10-1G-DDR3-wifi-media-box-tf-card-usb-media-player-for-tv/648914073.html
[11:37:09] <jdh> I have one that monitors my scuba compressor, and made one for my wife that plays powerpoints on her school tv system
[11:38:10] <__rob> you need to account for how easy it is tho.. theres prebuilt xbmc images for rpi
[11:38:18] <__rob> retard proof instructions
[11:39:08] <CaptHindsight> that's interesting, why would you pick a board that needs assembly into an enclosure and the power supply is also extra?
[11:39:49] <__rob> ask ikea
[11:40:01] <__rob> also, you can choose your own box!
[11:40:12] <__rob> people like that
[11:40:40] <CaptHindsight> Ikea keeps the prices lower by selling kits
[11:41:07] <CaptHindsight> the Rpi costs more than a complete and smaller device
[11:41:11] <ssi> CaptHindsight: people like buying something that they have the option to hack on, even if they're not going to
[11:41:19] <gammax> zeeshan, good idea
[11:41:26] <CaptHindsight> so you think it has to do with customization?
[11:41:33] <ssi> for some people probbaly
[11:41:41] <__rob> I guess people buy it with the intention to do more, but never do
[11:41:41] <ssi> zeeshan|2: I thought about trying to power wash the inside of my enclosure
[11:41:46] <__rob> ahh, like ssi said
[11:42:48] <CaptHindsight> or they find out how much they didn't know about programming after the purchase
[11:42:53] <ssi> :D
[11:42:57] <__rob> that aswell
[11:43:48] <__rob> the whole idea of it was to get kids to program at school. In my experience, the kids who were interested in that were doing it anyway back in the day
[11:44:11] <__rob> the rest of them will use it to play games, xbmc etc..
[11:44:24] <CaptHindsight> that was just the illusion of a noble cause
[11:45:11] <__rob> I like the idea that I can use it for xbmc, but also have it for powering up my pc when I remote in
[11:45:15] <CaptHindsight> the kids could also program their OLPC's
[11:45:18] <__rob> stmall stuff like that
[11:45:54] <CaptHindsight> but <$50 Chinese tablets replaced OLPC
[11:46:25] <zeeshan|2> ssi
[11:46:30] <zeeshan|2> i am looking at the amount of cruds and chips
[11:46:32] <zeeshan|2> in the machine
[11:46:38] <zeeshan|2> i'm wondering how to prevent future build up like this
[11:47:47] <CaptHindsight> what are the main turn-offs to Linuxcnc? The cost of new hardware vs duino and Rpi?
[11:47:52] <zeeshan|2> http://i.imgur.com/WOEAa3v.jpg
[11:48:48] <ssi> zeeshan|2: rinse it out after using it
[11:48:57] <ssi> CaptHindsight: it has a steep learning curve
[11:49:00] <cpresser> CaptHindsight: i think most people dont know about linuxcnc
[11:49:18] <zeeshan|2> and other problem with linuxcnc is
[11:49:26] <zeeshan|2> no one can tell me if devicenet is supported or not
[11:49:27] <zeeshan|2> !!
[11:49:35] <zeeshan|2> like if there are drives out there that i can modify
[11:49:44] <zeeshan|2> to make work with the sumitomo vfd
[11:50:04] <zeeshan|2> ssi
[11:50:08] <zeeshan|2> look at how cheap i boughjt this drive
[11:50:09] <zeeshan|2> http://www.ebay.ca/itm/Sumitomo-VFD-AC-1-Phase-5-HP-Max-3-Phase-10-HP-Max-200-240-Volts-/171388500859?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item27e78cfb7b
[11:50:31] <zeeshan|2> its a true vector drive
[11:50:33] <ssi> that's pretty cheap
[11:50:38] <ssi> let me know if it works worth a crap
[11:50:42] <zeeshan|2> its brand new
[11:50:44] <zeeshan|2> it better
[11:50:44] <zeeshan|2> !
[11:50:53] <ssi> heh
[11:50:53] <zeeshan|2> they go for 1k
[11:51:05] <ssi> I paid $1025 for my 25hp hitachi wj200
[11:51:10] <zeeshan|2> http://www.plccenter.ca/Buy/SUMITOMO%20MACHINERY%20INC/HF43027A5?redirect=true
[11:51:17] <ssi> shipped
[11:51:21] <zeeshan|2> how much is the 10hp wj200?
[11:51:27] <CaptHindsight> thyssenkruppelevator
[11:52:00] <ssi> cheapest i see it is 574
[11:52:17] <zeeshan|2> i wanted the wj200
[11:52:25] <zeeshan|2> cause i already have that vfd driver i messed around with for pete
[11:52:34] <ssi> yeah
[11:52:59] <zeeshan|2> now i gotta figure out how to work devicenet communication
[11:53:23] <ssi> I'm about to go buy another air dryer :P
[11:53:28] <zeeshan|2> why
[11:53:31] <zeeshan|2> what happened to your other one
[11:53:32] <ssi> two shops!
[11:53:39] <zeeshan|2> o
[11:55:04] <ssi> I put a big blast cabinet in down at the airport, and I was getting water stains on parts I was blasting :P
[11:57:44] <zeeshan|2> haha
[11:57:50] <zeeshan|2> clumpy media is also bad
[11:57:50] <zeeshan|2> ;[
[11:58:13] <zeeshan|2> DeviceNet is a network system used in the automation industry to interconnect control devices for data exchange. It uses Controller Area Network as the backbone technology and defines an application layer to cover a range of device profiles
[11:58:15] <zeeshan|2> hm
[11:59:28] <zeeshan|2> interesting
[11:59:32] <zeeshan|2> this is the same protocol they use in cars now
[11:59:34] <zeeshan|2> can-bus
[11:59:36] <ssi> yes
[11:59:47] <zeeshan|2> so learning it is worthwhile
[11:59:50] <zeeshan|2> on how to communicate
[11:59:52] <zeeshan|2> then i can hax car ecu
[12:01:25] <CaptHindsight> http://linuxcnc.org/docs/html/drivers/GM.html
[12:02:28] <zeeshan|2> CaptHindsight: i wonder if there is a library i can use
[12:02:47] <zeeshan|2> to read/write data over rs485
[12:03:09] <zeeshan|2> i guess i can look at how hal_gm is written
[12:04:05] <CaptHindsight> I want to see you drive-by-gcode :p
[12:04:26] <JesusAlos> hi
[12:04:39] <JesusAlos> hi all
[12:07:53] <CaptHindsight> zeeshan|2: https://github.com/sittner/linuxcnc/blob/master/src/hal/drivers/hal_gm.c
[12:15:18] <CaptHindsight> interesting that high speed CAN Bus is 1Mbit/sec and it's used for engine, traction, suspension, ABS and gearbox control
[12:17:10] <CaptHindsight> zeeshan|2: do they use multiple CAN buses (with separate wires) in autos or are they typically shared by all those resources?
[12:22:09] <JesusAlos> there are any application for linuxcnc to generate gcode repeats?
[12:23:09] <JesusAlos> When gcode arrive to end, start again
[12:26:16] <jdh> my GPS uses canbus to talk to my motors
[12:26:34] <jdh> and dive computers use canbus to speak to solenoids & sensors
[12:46:36] <JesusAlos> by
[13:11:14] <zeeshan|2> CaptHindsight: yea there are multiple control units
[13:11:18] <zeeshan|2> that talk to each other using can bus
[14:07:33] <cpresser> any hints on why USB wont work with the linuxcnc 2.6 image?
[14:08:14] <cpresser> it does with other linux distros, but this one gives me "device not accepting address 5, error -110"
[14:12:44] <skunkworks_> cpresser: that is a known problem with some hardware.
[14:13:00] <skunkworks_> cpresser: are you using mesa hardware?
[14:13:06] <cpresser> skunkworks_: just found this post: http://linuxcnc.org/index.php/english/forum/9-installing-linuxcnc/28164-unable-to-find-a-live-file-system-gigabyte-j1800?limitstart=0
[14:13:13] <cpresser> skunkworks_: yes, i will use a 6i25
[14:13:43] <cpresser> i am currently searching for which kernel with which patches to use...
[14:14:00] <skunkworks_> than use master and uspace.. - the rt_preempt kernel in the debian repository works great.
[14:14:21] <skunkworks_> (if you don't need a base thread)
[14:14:41] <jdh> I'm all about the base. thread.
[14:14:47] <jdh> I'm sorry.
[14:14:48] <skunkworks_> cpresser: what motherboard?
[14:14:50] <skunkworks_> heh
[14:15:10] <cpresser> skunkworks_: asrock Q1900B-ITX
[14:15:26] <cpresser> this one: http://www.asrock.com/mb/Intel/Q1900B-ITX
[14:15:30] <skunkworks_> I have gigabyte j1800, j1900 that both exhibit that issue
[14:15:43] <cpresser> what is 'uspace'?
[14:16:05] <skunkworks_> master allows you to run userspace realtime.
[14:16:47] <skunkworks_> I have been testing the 7i80 and 5i25 with rt_preemt. so far so good.
[14:16:50] <cpresser> ah, just found it: http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?Uspace
[14:18:00] <skunkworks_> plus you get the new trajectory planner.. :)
[14:18:04] <cpresser> I guess ill need debian squeeze?
[14:18:13] <cpresser> this will be a single axis machine^^
[14:18:31] <skunkworks_> the latest linuxcnc livecd uses wheezy
[14:18:55] <cpresser> yes, i have that installed. but i cant find 'newer' kernels in the debian repository for wheezy
[14:20:13] <skunkworks_> ? you are looking for the rt_preempt kernel..
[14:20:59] <cpresser> yes
[14:22:27] <cpresser> will that binary repository do for linuxcnc, or do i need to compile it myself? "deb http://buildbot.linuxcnc.org/ wheezy master-rtpreempt"
[14:26:08] <cpresser> skunkworks_: what is the name of the kernel-package which has rt_preemt?
[14:56:28] <CaptHindsight> cpresser: can you build kernels and RTAI from scratch?
[14:57:06] <CaptHindsight> if so, there is RTAI for 3.14 kernels
[14:58:53] <cpresser> CaptHindsight: yes, I know how to compile a kernel. done bevore
[14:59:57] <cpresser> CaptHindsight: where can i get the kernel patch? i didnt find one so far
[15:00:08] <CaptHindsight> cpresser: one sec.
[15:00:56] <CaptHindsight> it's not in Linuxcnc yet, but we have been using it for the past 2+ months
[15:03:31] <CaptHindsight> linuxcnc forums are runnin slower than a sloth stuck in molasses on a winters day
[15:03:51] <CaptHindsight> https://github.com/NTULINUX/RTAI
[15:05:14] <cpresser> CaptHindsight: thanks. i will try that
[15:05:41] <PCW> sudo apt-get install linux-image-3.2.0-4-rt-686-pae
[15:05:43] <PCW> for the wheezy stock preemt-rt kernel
[15:05:50] <CaptHindsight> cpresser: tested on AMD and Intel i5
[15:07:26] <CaptHindsight> cpresser: like he said if you don't need a low latency base thread it's easy to use the preempt_rt kernel
[15:08:17] <cpresser> i will try the rt-preemt and uspace approach first
[15:13:55] <cpresser> ah nice, the linuxcnc-uspace package does install the rt-kernel via dependencies :)
[15:15:08] <PCW> and USB actually works!
[15:17:45] <cpresser> i am about to reboot... not sure which WM i will install though :)
[15:18:25] <cpresser> PCW: i might have a lot of questions in the near future... i am about to build my first machine with mesa-hardware
[15:18:37] <cpresser> but its a simple setup, i think i can handle it
[15:19:06] <PCW> if you are comfortable with hal its should be easy
[15:20:16] <_methods> http://terminal.sexy/
[15:20:32] <_methods> pimp my terminal yo
[15:20:48] <cpresser> i am not so sure with the right firmware... but ill read the docs first, then ask questions :)
[15:21:23] <_methods> read first then ask questions...........wtf are you thinking
[15:21:36] <PCW> firmware depends on daughtercards/usage
[15:25:00] <Connor> So, last night, after evaluating all the I/O I'm need or planning to have with my mill.. I've come to the conclusion I need a auxiliary break out box. I can't possibly add enough connectors to cover everything.
[15:27:04] <Connor> Inputs: Spindle Encoder 3 input + 5v and Gnd, Axis A Encoder, 3 input + 5v and Gnd, X, Y, Z Home / Limit 3 inputs + 12v, Touch Probe jack wired to spindle 1 + 12v, Touch off Probe, 1 + 12v, ATC Home, Ram In, Ram Out, 3 + 12v, Air Pressure 1 + 12v
[15:27:52] <Connor> Outputs, Power Draw Bar Solenoid 1 + Gnd, ATC Ram Solenoid 1 + Gnd, Air Blast Solenoid, 1 + Gnd
[15:30:37] <Connor> So, I'm thinking of using a DB25 connector to a Radio Shack Project Box (8"x6"x3") and mount that on the back of the stand.. and mount a DIN rail in it.. I have these Wk4/U DIN terminal blocks that have Quick connects for the stuff coming in from the mill.. and will use the other side to go to the DB25
[15:31:48] <Connor> I'll run a 6' DB25 male-to-male cable (the one that came with my 5i25 + 7i76 kit) from my electronics enclosure to the break out box..
[15:32:50] <Connor> I'll use the existing DB9 connector I was using for Encoder and E-Stop to goto my Pendant once I have it setup.
[15:33:09] <Connor> Thoughts ?
[15:38:21] <cpresser> Connor: DIN-Rail Terminal-Blocks do sound great. i am about to build the same
[15:38:57] <Connor> Yea, I was wondering if that was over kill.. a smaller PCB with those little blue screw terminal blocks would work just as well.
[15:39:23] <cpresser> i dont like screw-terminals on PCBs. they break
[15:39:39] <cpresser> rather have plugs on the pcb (Phoenix 3.81mm, ....)
[15:39:46] <Connor> I don't even think I'm going to have but the one DB25 connector.. I think everything else will just go through a bulk-head hole..
[15:40:39] <Connor> These WK4/U have 2 Phoenix style connectors..
[15:41:08] <Connor> Wait.. wrong part # WK2.5/U
[15:42:25] <Connor> http://az343058.vo.msecnd.net/productlargeimages/52669ab040594f9ba4ee493a4a63bedb.jpg
[15:43:28] <Connor> Just need to figure out how I want to do the 12v buss in it.. the 5v is easy since only the two encoders need it.. but.. all the others need to share the 12v.
[16:33:54] <CaptHindsight> Synthetic Benchmarks of ChibiOS/RT pm various ARM platforms http://www.chibios.org/dokuwiki/doku.php?id=chibios:metrics
[16:35:00] <CaptHindsight> it's interesting that Linux RTAI on x86 is actually lower than some of these
[16:35:03] <Deejay> gn8
[17:09:27] <Connor> Are you kidding me.. They have both 5mm and 5.08mm headers.. WTF..
[17:26:59] <PCW> those are Microcontrollers: mostly no FS, no Graphics maybe no network, makes RT a lot easier...
[17:35:58] <ssi> zeeshan|2: https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Bz3CFWVIUAAacYJ.jpg:large
[17:36:53] <maZer`-> hi all
[17:43:00] <maZer`-> can someone explain me the output_scale value? i have dc drivers with 0-10v input
[18:02:38] <zeeshan|2> is that brand new?
[18:02:40] <zeeshan|2> looks frigging nice
[18:02:44] <zeeshan|2> and nice compressor man
[18:02:47] <zeeshan|2> =D
[18:04:50] <Tom_itx> looks quite a bit like mine without the drier
[18:05:25] <Tom_itx> 80 gal?
[18:08:06] <Tom_itx> CaptHindsight, RT on a mega128?
[18:08:19] <zeeshan|2> https://www.flickr.com/photos/128539016@N05/15344207707/
[18:08:20] <zeeshan|2> this is weird
[18:08:22] <zeeshan|2> the servo motor
[18:08:27] <zeeshan|2> doesnt seem to have a belt tensioner?
[18:08:42] <zeeshan|2> its got the typical 4 bolts to mount a motor
[18:08:42] <ssi> zeeshan|2: it's not brand new, but it's not terribly hard used either
[18:08:47] <ssi> zeeshan|2: I paid $250 for that one
[18:08:48] <zeeshan|2> ssi it looks brand new dude
[18:08:51] <zeeshan|2> wow
[18:08:54] <zeeshan|2> how much scfm?
[18:08:55] <ssi> they're about $1k new
[18:08:57] <ssi> 20 I think
[18:09:01] <zeeshan|2> nice man
[18:09:02] <ssi> my compressor is 18.1
[18:09:15] <Tom_itx> zeeshan|2 the tensioner is the top pulley
[18:09:18] <Tom_itx> i believe
[18:09:20] <ssi> Tom_itx: it's 60gal
[18:09:39] <Tom_itx> <- 80 gal 2 stage
[18:09:45] <ssi> yea mine's single stage
[18:09:51] <zeeshan|2> tom where
[18:09:52] <ssi> I'm convinced that IR compressior is the best value
[18:10:01] <zeeshan|2> that pulley is axially in line with the ball screw
[18:10:03] <ssi> $980 new from northern, 5hp 18.1cfm single stage 60gal
[18:10:04] <zeeshan|2> i dont see how you can adjust that
[18:10:16] <Tom_itx> maybe not
[18:10:27] <Tom_itx> is it some sort of clutch on top?
[18:10:36] <zeeshan|2> no i dont thinkso
[18:10:47] <zeeshan|2> im trying to pull t e motor off
[18:10:53] <zeeshan|2> i just find it weird that there is no tensioner
[18:10:57] <Tom_itx> after zooming.. it's a timing belt not a V belt
[18:11:01] <zeeshan|2> yes
[18:11:07] <zeeshan|2> but even v-belts have tensioners
[18:11:12] <Tom_itx> they don't strecth that much
[18:11:41] <zeeshan|2> https://www.flickr.com/photos/128539016@N05/15531066262/
[18:11:45] <zeeshan|2> look at how the Y axis servo mounts
[18:11:45] <zeeshan|2> lol
[18:11:48] <zeeshan|2> thats intense
[18:12:33] <zeeshan|2> https://www.flickr.com/photos/128539016@N05/15527521111/in/photostream/lightbox/
[18:12:39] <zeeshan|2> this limit switches
[18:12:41] <zeeshan|2> are kind of odd
[18:12:47] <zeeshan|2> they're feeding 240vac to them
[18:12:48] <zeeshan|2> !!!
[18:13:10] <Tom_itx> ok?
[18:13:15] <Tom_itx> it's old
[18:13:17] <zeeshan|2> you dont find that weird?
[18:13:21] <zeeshan|2> thats a lotta voltage!
[18:13:30] <Tom_itx> stay away from it
[18:13:36] <zeeshan|2> im gonna just push 24VDC
[18:13:39] <zeeshan|2> through those limit switches
[19:25:29] <jdh> push it!
[19:39:34] <ssi> hrm
[19:46:52] <XXCoder> interesting http://hackaday.com/2014/10/12/bench-top-drill-press-converted-to-milling-machine-mounted-to-lathe/
[20:11:28] <ssi> https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Bz3llrjIMAI5Ykf.jpg:large
[20:14:13] <maZer`-> n1 xD
[20:15:42] <ssi> about to cut a batch of matching gaskets out of silicone sheet
[20:16:03] <XXCoder> ssi thats awesome though
[20:16:11] <XXCoder> you dont need to buy gaskets for car]
[20:16:17] <XXCoder> if you have raw slabs source
[20:16:25] <_methods> i need to make a laser
[20:17:43] <_methods> is the whole beam path open?
[20:17:51] <_methods> or do you have a purged beam path?
[20:19:25] <_methods> i guess most of these diy lasers have an exposed beam path?
[20:26:08] <skunkworks_> logger[psha]:
[20:26:08] <logger[psha]> skunkworks_: Log stored at http://psha.org.ru/irc/%23linuxcnc/2014-10-14.html
[20:26:58] <ssi> it's all open
[20:27:08] <ssi> https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Bz3pFfnIEAAjxJd.jpg:large
[20:27:09] <ssi> gaskets
[20:28:11] <jdh> for?
[20:28:18] <ssi> for the endcaps pictured above
[20:50:58] <zeeshan|2> fak
[20:51:28] <zeeshan|2> i just found a mechanical timer
[20:51:29] <zeeshan|2> on this thing
[20:51:33] <zeeshan|2> 86,000 hours!
[20:51:45] <zeeshan|2> basically run for 3583 days
[21:08:05] <CaptHindsight> Tom_itx: only 7.5kB kernel used for the ATMega128
[21:19:39] <ssi> laser cutting pcb stencils in mylar is working out somewhat
[21:20:57] <PetefromTn_> If I ever say I am going to order something from Use-enco that I need quickly will someone please punch me directly in the nutz....!!
[21:21:02] <ssi> lol
[21:21:13] <XXCoder> wow zee
[21:21:42] <PetefromTn_> Ordered some new tooling I need to finish a prototype on friday and it has not even shipped yet....
[21:22:57] <PetefromTn_> I keep mistaking that because they are both down there in Atlanta that Mcmaster carr and Enco will deliver similarly... I was wrong!!
[21:23:08] <ssi> nope
[21:23:11] <ssi> nobody beats mcmaster
[21:23:17] <PetefromTn_> damn right
[21:23:52] <PetefromTn_> I ordered some screws the same day within about ten minutes of each other to the tooling and the screws got here this morning.
[21:23:56] <ssi> yep
[21:24:08] <ssi> enco is here in town but they don't have will call
[21:24:20] <ssi> MSC is colocated with enco, and they have will call, but their prices are much higher
[21:24:32] <ssi> the only way to pick stuff up at enco is to have it shipped via your own freight
[21:24:37] <ssi> and put "Ian's Trucking" as the carrier
[21:24:41] <ssi> and they really don't like that
[21:24:59] <PetefromTn_> yeah that is exactly why I did not order the cutters from Mcmaster the price was too high.
[21:25:14] <ssi> well that's what you get for enco's cheap price, sadly
[21:26:12] <PetefromTn_> yeah and the worst part is I KNEW that was going to happen but I was hoping since it was small parts unlike my last orders it would get here quicker.
[21:31:31] <CaptHindsight> PetefromTn_: sorry to hear that, they usually ship same day for me and it shows up next day even by truck freight
[21:31:50] <PetefromTn_> REALLY??
[21:32:04] <CaptHindsight> yeah, they have a warehouse in Indiana
[21:32:20] <CaptHindsight> at least thats where all my orders have shipped from
[21:32:20] <PetefromTn_> I spoke to them on the phone today and the basically told me they never do overnight shipping unless you pay for red label or something like that.
[21:32:42] <PetefromTn_> yeah that is actually where the tools are coming from apparenlty.
[21:32:53] <PetefromTn_> I thought they were in Atlanta but apparently not for some items.
[21:33:07] <CaptHindsight> I guess I'm only 1 say by UPS or by freight and if I order before Noon the truck shows up ~24 hrs later
[21:33:18] <CaptHindsight> say/day
[21:33:33] <PetefromTn_> go figure..
[21:33:52] <CaptHindsight> I usually order tooling and surface plates
[21:34:34] <PetefromTn_> I need that 82 degree champfer bit to make this screw head flush on the parts.
[21:34:41] <PetefromTn_> The one I have is not large enough
[21:34:47] <CaptHindsight> oh and even a sand blasting booth, next day
[21:35:05] <PetefromTn_> so I ordered two 3/4 inch ones an 82 degree and a 90 degree both MA ford.
[21:35:17] <ssi> .argh
[21:35:21] <PetefromTn_> I gotta say their price was very very cheap and on sale on their internet
[21:35:22] <ssi> I had a cart full of crap at digikey
[21:35:32] <ssi> and I logged in to try to get part nums from an earlier order
[21:35:34] <ssi> and it wiped my cart :(
[21:36:11] <PetefromTn_> well I just have to remember that if I want something from them I need to expect it to be at least three days shipping
[21:36:18] <PetefromTn_> that sucks
[21:36:32] <ssi> a LOT
[21:36:57] <Tom_itx> PetefromTn_, ever tr travers?
[21:37:10] <Tom_itx> try*
[21:37:12] <CaptHindsight> ssi: I've had problems with Digikey as well. I always call to be sure my order was properly processed if I need it next day.
[21:37:40] <PetefromTn_> travers tool ship quick?
[21:37:42] <CaptHindsight> I'va had orders stuck in the system where their customer service was hoping it would ship
[21:38:34] <ssi> I didn't even place the order
[21:38:38] <ssi> was still trying to get it together
[21:38:40] <ssi> now I have to start over
[21:38:46] <ssi> it's all the parts for my hall state converter
[21:38:49] <ssi> plus some CPC pins
[21:38:51] <CaptHindsight> never tried Travers but Mcmaster has a Chicago location that ship as late as 5:30 or 6pm
[21:39:02] <CaptHindsight> or I can will call same day
[21:39:11] <ssi> I will call mcmaster all the time
[21:39:12] <Tom_itx> we always got what we ordered
[21:39:13] <PetefromTn_> Mcmaster is the best and quickest but not necessarily the cheapest..
[21:39:17] <Tom_itx> in a timely manner...
[21:39:25] <ssi> I'm usually happy to pay mcmaster's prices in order to get their service
[21:39:27] <Tom_itx> mcmaster isn't the cheapest for sure
[21:39:29] <ssi> I buy a LOT of stuff from them
[21:39:39] <PetefromTn_> yeah I USUALLY buy from them
[21:39:46] <PetefromTn_> they are the best by far.
[21:39:48] <CaptHindsight> yesh, I tend to pay the most at McMaster or the mostest at Grainger
[21:39:56] <ssi> I won't shop grainger
[21:40:02] <jdh> why?
[21:40:11] <jdh> grainger is our on-site supplier at work
[21:40:16] <Tom_itx> everything is list there
[21:40:17] <ssi> they don't carry anything that mcmaster doesn't carry, they're more expensive even than mcmaster, and their service isn't nearly as good
[21:40:36] <jdh> I get 'employee pricing'
[21:40:36] <PetefromTn_> who?
[21:40:39] <ssi> grainger
[21:40:55] <ssi> if you're an hvac guy or a janitor, grainger has everything you need
[21:41:08] <ssi> but they've NEVER had anything I need
[21:41:14] <CaptHindsight> Grainger is local for lots of people if it's in stock or you can have them ship to your local store and will call it to save on shipping
[21:41:34] <ssi> yeah but I don't want to drive and pick something up TOMORROW
[21:41:40] <ssi> if I want it tomorrow, mcmaster will deliver it
[21:41:45] <CaptHindsight> I hate their website
[21:41:46] <ssi> if I want it now, I can will call mcmatser
[21:41:56] <ssi> yeah their website blows
[21:42:04] <ssi> mcmaster's website is the pinnacle of e-commerce :P
[21:42:06] <jdh> they will deliver personal stuff to me at work
[21:42:11] <roycroft> i hate grainger
[21:42:27] <ssi> also, I can call mcmaster and they'll have someone pull a part off a shelf and measure it for me to verify it's what I need
[21:42:33] <roycroft> not only are they expensive, they refuse to sell to me
[21:42:40] <roycroft> and i sent them my business registration
[21:42:57] <roycroft> they actually cancelled an order without telling me and without refunding my money until i raised a huge stink
[21:43:40] <roycroft> mcmaster are great though
[21:43:55] <roycroft> they have almost everything grainger do, for less money
[21:44:08] <roycroft> but there's a grainger warehouse in my town, and there isn't a mcmaster warehouse here
[21:44:25] <ssi> mcmaster warehouse is a 40 minute drive for me
[21:44:34] <roycroft> grainger are morons
[21:44:41] <roycroft> the big deal is that i cannot give them a state tax id number
[21:44:49] <roycroft> because we have no sales tax in my state
[21:44:58] <roycroft> and the state does not issue tax id numbers
[21:45:08] <ssi> oh jez
[21:45:08] <roycroft> never mind that i gave them my federal tax id number
[21:45:27] <roycroft> they could not conceive of a state not having tax id numbers for businesses
[21:45:35] <roycroft> even though they have multiple warehouses in my state
[21:45:47] <roycroft> i don't know how anyone else around here buys from them
[21:46:35] <roycroft> i've learned to be patient in my old age, though
[21:46:49] <roycroft> so i rarely feel a need to have something right now
[21:47:20] <roycroft> if i need something and it is going to take a couple days to get here, i can almost always occupy myself with another project for those couple days
[21:47:32] <Tom_itx> PetefromTn_ the post wasn't delivering today anyway if that's how it was coming
[21:47:36] <roycroft> but yeah, morons at grainger
[21:47:37] <Tom_itx> it was a holiday
[21:48:03] <roycroft> bank and postal holiday
[21:48:08] <roycroft> the rest of us still had to work
[21:48:14] <PetefromTn_> yeah like I said I ordered it friday morning and it has not even shipped yet...
[21:48:16] <ssi> roycroft: see if I get stuck on a project where I have to wait on stuff, and I switch to something else
[21:48:23] <roycroft> exactly, ssi
[21:48:23] <ssi> chances are good the first project will get abandoned for a long time
[21:48:26] <roycroft> oh
[21:48:30] <roycroft> not exactly
[21:48:32] <ssi> so I try to not get stalled if at all possible
[21:48:38] <roycroft> i try to switch to something else that won't take very long
[21:48:40] <Tom_itx> PetefromTn_ the shipping gal was too busy painting her nails to worry with your stuff
[21:48:49] <roycroft> so that when the part or whatever arrives i'm just finishing the othe project
[21:49:01] <roycroft> and go "oh, the part has arrived - i should get back to that"
[21:49:02] <PetefromTn_> probably out boozing it up and laughing about it actually..
[21:49:07] <CaptHindsight> roycroft: that sounds like grainger
[21:49:07] <roycroft> it doesn't always work out that way
[21:49:09] <roycroft> but i try
[21:49:36] <roycroft> their loss, capthindsight
[21:49:47] <ssi> roycroft: I end up with boxes with parts lying around for years and I forget what they were even supposed to go to
[21:49:49] <roycroft> i'm sure i could have worked it out with them over time
[21:49:54] <CaptHindsight> I never understood why they say they only want to sell B to B and yet charge more than list
[21:50:02] <roycroft> but instead, i just use different vendors
[21:50:29] <ssi> CaptHindsight: they try to capitalize on businesses that are willing to spend more than they have to in order to avoid shopping around
[21:50:42] <roycroft> ssi: actually, when that started happening to me, that's when i changed my habits so that i would actually start finishing projects in a timely manner
[21:50:44] <ssi> but they're so damn inconvenient that I can't see how that works for them
[21:51:03] <roycroft> i'm sure i've lost lots of money buying parts that i forget why i bought them, and end up selling them for a loss or tossing them
[21:51:05] <CaptHindsight> I think Grainger is still around since they are in every big city and they have that replacement part for your business but you really pay for it
[21:51:10] <roycroft> i like to save money, not waste money
[21:51:28] <CaptHindsight> so your HVAC, pump etc can be replaced the same day
[21:51:31] <ssi> roycroft: I got stalled hard this past weekend when I discovered that the drives I have that I was gonna use for my vmc are completely useless
[21:51:33] <roycroft> grainger are only around because when you absolutely need some weird part RIGHT NOW you can go over and buy it
[21:51:38] <ssi> so now I'm waiting on drives to come in the mail
[21:51:40] <CaptHindsight> yeah
[21:51:46] <roycroft> and pay 50% over list
[21:52:47] <CaptHindsight> I usually only need a part the same day if I forgot about it and it was promised to be shipped out ASAP
[21:55:04] <CaptHindsight> we have several motor suppliers around here, same for electrical, plumbing, HVAC etc. I'm never stuck having to go to Grainger
[21:56:43] <roycroft> so when you folks design things that need to be machined, and most of the machining will be in imperial/us customary units, but fasteners, etc. are metric, do you use metric dimensions on the drawings for the hardware and imperial/us customary for the rest, or do you convert everything to imperial/us customary?
[21:56:54] <roycroft> i haven't done much design work where i mix units
[21:57:16] <ssi> I would rather see the hardware callouts in metric
[21:57:23] <roycroft> and i can't decide what would be best, but i'm leaning towards mixed units in the drawings
[21:58:05] <ssi> if it's a drill hit, I would call out the hole in wire size or imperial fraction
[21:58:11] <ssi> because I don't own metric drills
[21:58:29] <ssi> but the fasteners don't make sense to call out in any way other than what they are
[21:58:33] <Tom_itx> roycroft, list both dimensions
[21:58:45] <roycroft> i have some metric drills, but i use us customary for most things because of the greater variety of sizes
[21:58:48] <Tom_itx> consistently list one first
[21:58:56] <ssi> you wouldn't say "tap M0.394x0.0394"
[21:59:00] <roycroft> that's a good idea
[21:59:13] <ssi> you'd say "tap M10x1.0"
[21:59:14] <ssi> or whatever
[21:59:22] <roycroft> these drawings will be for my own use
[21:59:26] <roycroft> but i like to do things right
[21:59:43] <roycroft> and sometimes right is really the most common way, whether it's arguably the best way or not
[22:01:07] <roycroft> so i'd do something like 0.236" (6.0mm)
[22:01:16] <ssi> for a drill hit?
[22:01:27] <PetefromTn_> Personally if it is for my own shop use which it typically is I just make everything US units and then tap whatever the fastener requires. Honeslty I hardly ever use the actual fastener in the drawing. If there is a hole that needs to be tapped for a fastener I just make a hole the size of the tap drill diameter and progarm that.
[22:01:29] <roycroft> if i needed to drill a 6.0mm hole, sure
[22:01:47] <ssi> yeah that's reasonable
[22:01:48] <CaptHindsight> if the fasteners are in metric why would you put the other dimensions in Imperial?
[22:01:50] <ssi> but you asked about fasteners
[22:01:59] <ssi> and I don't think that it ever makes sense to list a metric fastener in imperial units
[22:02:18] <roycroft> well the fastener callout itself would just be metric
[22:02:21] <ssi> ok
[22:02:22] <roycroft> because i would not be machining that
[22:08:32] <roycroft> i'm not a big fan of globalization (and unwilling to get into a political discussion about that right now)
[22:08:44] <roycroft> but one good thing that globalization will bring is the metrification of the us
[22:08:51] <roycroft> we've adopted the metric system twice so far
[22:08:54] <ssi> it's happening slowly but surely
[22:08:59] <roycroft> in the 1870s and again in the 1970s
[22:09:04] <Tom_itx> we tried that once back in the 70's
[22:09:08] <roycroft> but it's finally really happening
[22:09:30] <Tom_itx> i hate working on something with mixed systems
[22:09:32] <roycroft> note: putting up km signs on roads is not an effective way to convert
[22:09:46] <Tom_itx> half metric half imperial
[22:09:51] <Connor> I have a hard time thinking in metric.. I have a general idea of MPH.. and Inches and Feet... I have to do a conversion for anything over 1cm
[22:10:12] <ssi> I don't like cm
[22:10:18] <ssi> I can convert mm to inches and back quickly
[22:10:19] <Tom_itx> it's like learning a new language. you will always think in your native language
[22:10:20] <roycroft> especially when you just replace existing mile signs with km signs
[22:10:21] <ssi> but cm always screws me up :P
[22:10:35] <ssi> 1mm ~= .040"
[22:10:41] <ssi> 0.0394 exactly
[22:10:46] <Connor> 2.54 cm = 1 inch.
[22:10:50] <Tom_itx> when you _think_ in the new language is when you really _know_ it
[22:10:50] <ssi> so it gets fairly easy
[22:10:54] <humble_sea_bass> i hate myself for the amount of stupid conversion factor i know
[22:10:55] <roycroft> the "exactly" is the part that is stupid
[22:11:00] <ssi> 3mm ~= .120 ~= 1/8"
[22:11:05] <roycroft> people should not even attempt to do exact conversions
[22:11:07] <ssi> 6mm ~=.240 ~= 1/4"
[22:11:11] <roycroft> for the most part
[22:11:17] <roycroft> they should just learn the new units natively
[22:11:32] <humble_sea_bass> psi to feet of head? got dat. inches of water column? nbd
[22:11:36] <roycroft> when you learn a foreign language you translate in your head for the first few days
[22:11:47] <Connor> 6.35mm = .25"
[22:11:50] <roycroft> but very soon you start thinking in the foreign language
[22:12:07] <CaptHindsight> takes me more than a few days :)
[22:12:13] <Tom_itx> heh
[22:13:01] <roycroft> if you're talking about foreign languages still, it really does take only a few days before you start thinking in the new language
[22:13:11] <humble_sea_bass> the trippiest unit in metric is measuring flow over area
[22:13:18] <roycroft> you're not thinking complex thoughts for a long time, because you only know a few words
[22:13:34] <XXCoder> banana
[22:13:35] <humble_sea_bass> in us units you qould say gpm/sqft
[22:13:41] <CaptHindsight> 1 inch of water = 0.00245915618 atmospheres, easy peasy
[22:13:42] <PetefromTn_> ah jeez...
[22:13:49] <PetefromTn_> net splits..
[22:13:58] <XXCoder> yeah net banana splits
[22:14:18] <humble_sea_bass> inmetric the units plainly cancel to mm/min
[22:14:35] <ssi> humble_sea_bass: you ever see the thing about mpg being measured in units of area, representing the cross section of a long narrow tube the length you've driven containing all the fuel you used? :D
[22:14:51] <Tom_itx> humble_sea_bass, why isn't time base 10 in metric?
[22:15:00] <Tom_itx> wouldn't that be easier too?
[22:15:02] <humble_sea_bass> ive seen that and i love it
[22:15:04] <CaptHindsight> or the alphabet?
[22:15:04] <ssi> :)
[22:15:05] <Tom_itx> heh
[22:15:08] <Connor> and, wasn't there a certain point in time when 1 inch ~= 2.54 mm.. it was slightly different?
[22:15:31] <CaptHindsight> metric inches?
[22:15:40] <humble_sea_bass> minches
[22:15:49] <CaptHindsight> metric tons so why not?
[22:15:59] <ssi> metric asstons?
[22:16:24] <humble_sea_bass> ton of cooling is also a good unit
[22:19:55] <CaptHindsight> 1 furlong per fortnight = 0.000166309524 m / s actually on the Google calc
[22:20:10] <roycroft> i believe that's what was designed in the 1870's metrification attempt
[22:20:38] <roycroft> the us offically defined the unit of length in terms of the meter
[22:20:50] <roycroft> and set the inch to be exactly 2.54cm
[22:21:09] <Connor> before that.. they used 1 meter = 39.37 inchs..
[22:21:26] <CaptHindsight> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Inch#History
[22:22:10] <CaptHindsight> 1930
[22:23:51] <Connor> http://www.astrodigital.org/space/stshorse.html