#linuxcnc | Logs for 2014-10-06

[00:02:48] <ssi> weeee here we go
[00:03:11] <PetefromTn_> a little late for a party no hehe
[00:04:46] <ssi> yeah I'm screwy like that
[00:04:51] <ssi> at 11 I was dead tired
[00:04:56] <ssi> wanted nothing more than to get home and go to bed
[00:05:07] <ssi> now here I am, showered and fresh, and my mind is back in high gear
[00:05:48] <ssi> so here's what I think I can do, which'll be kinda awesome
[00:05:52] <PetefromTn_> I am kinda like that... I have always been a night person anyway. Sometimes I cannot sleep and stay up all night working on projects
[00:06:00] <ssi> my drives have those amp champ series II connectors on thew
[00:06:10] <ssi> theyr'e designed to be molded in cable plugs
[00:06:17] <ssi> and they're a bitch to solder
[00:06:23] <ssi> they make PCB mount versions
[00:06:49] <PetefromTn_> are you talking about that high density connector like on my drives
[00:06:49] <ssi> I think what I might do is design a PCB which carries the mating connectors
[00:06:52] <ssi> yeah
[00:07:03] <ssi> the PCB would snap onto the drive, and provide terminal blocks to wire to
[00:07:03] <ssi> AND
[00:07:08] <ssi> a cpld to do the fanuc conversion
[00:07:14] <ssi> all in one convenient package :)
[00:07:14] <PetefromTn_> They already make those.
[00:07:26] <PetefromTn_> oh yeah not with the fanuc part
[00:07:37] <ssi> right
[00:07:51] <ssi> and on the other side, I can put a D-sub connector
[00:07:57] <ssi> which mates directly to the cable coming from the motor
[00:08:33] <ssi> then the only thing I really need to be concerned about is mechanical security of that board
[00:12:48] <PetefromTn_> sounds like a reasonable solution
[00:12:54] <ssi> yeah
[00:13:02] <ssi> a bit more crap to figure out in terms of mechanical fitment
[00:13:11] <ssi> but could be worthwhile to reduce the wiring headache
[00:13:40] <ssi> give me phoenix blocks and/or D-sub any day of the week
[00:13:49] <ssi> these amp champ connectors are not my favorite
[00:14:04] <ssi> not low-volume friendly
[00:14:12] <PetefromTn_> like I said when I was working on my drives I was in search of a breakout board to avoid doing that high density soldering on the cables and they had them available so I suppose it would work without alterior mechanical support
[00:14:26] <ssi> yeah maybe
[00:14:38] <ssi> I'll put some mounting holes on it, and if I need to build a bracket I will
[00:16:08] <PetefromTn_> after soldering them all up tho it was not as difficult as I had initially imagined really. Just a wire at a time
[00:16:16] <ssi> yeah it's not the end of the world
[00:18:41] <PetefromTn_> I finally crawled under my house today and moved the cable wire so we can put the cable modem and wireless router near my flatscreen. This allows me to plug the ethernet directly into the TV so we have all the onscreen options like netflix etc without having to load up the wifi on the blu ray player.
[00:19:29] <ssi> nice :)
[00:19:31] <ssi> http://www.digikey.com/product-detail/en/5175887-4/A115315-ND/2203262
[00:19:36] <ssi> PCB mount version of that connector
[00:19:39] <ssi> they're not inexpensive
[00:20:28] <PetefromTn_> they also had the kind you press into a flat cable too as I recall
[00:23:22] <PetefromTn_> have you figured out how you are going to install the PC and monitor?
[00:24:08] <ssi> no, not yet
[00:24:14] <ssi> I don't have the same nice pendant you do
[00:24:18] <ssi> mine's that stupid box
[00:24:26] <ssi> I may make a whole new pendant
[00:24:36] <PetefromTn_> yeah but it gives you lots of room
[00:24:48] <ssi> it's the wrong shape tho
[00:24:50] <PetefromTn_> you can do that too of course
[00:24:53] <ssi> short and deep
[00:25:23] <PetefromTn_> it would be cool to remove that whole thing and make something very tight to the front of the enclosure somehow.
[00:25:28] <ssi> yeah
[00:25:31] <ssi> I may put the PC in the back
[00:25:35] <ssi> and run vga/kb cables back
[00:26:04] <ssi> and for whatever front panel work I do, I'll get that mesa smart-serial pendant IO board
[00:26:19] <PetefromTn_> that would work too
[00:26:43] <ssi> that's not really a priority in my brain right now :)
[00:27:09] <ssi> priority goes: axes, spindle, operator station, toolchanger :D
[00:27:14] <PetefromTn_> thats funny it was one of the first things I did when I started.
[00:27:17] <ssi> yeah
[00:28:00] <PetefromTn_> It was kinda fun gutting the whole electronics cabinet...
[00:28:15] <PetefromTn_> You should have seen the huge pile of wires I tore out of there.
[00:28:25] <ssi> did you leave the transformers in the back? I forget
[00:28:35] <ssi> I don't think I really need them for anything
[00:28:39] <ssi> other than maybe making 110V
[00:28:49] <PetefromTn_> The main transformer is still underneath the cabinet but It does not get used anymore
[00:28:55] <ssi> mine are top left
[00:28:57] <ssi> there's two of them
[00:29:42] <PetefromTn_> mine had two as well one was inside the cabinet the big one with the different power taps is still underneath that big box on the back.
[00:30:02] <PetefromTn_> I should take it out and sell the damn thing maybe I can get a few bucks for the pendant I want hehe
[00:30:10] <ssi> heheh yeah
[00:30:15] <ssi> hell it's worth something just in copper
[00:30:19] <PetefromTn_> probably enough copper in ther.
[00:30:24] <PetefromTn_> LOL
[00:30:40] <PetefromTn_> its a pretty big one for what it is really.
[00:30:49] <ssi> bah the mechanical drawings in the gemini manual don't show the precise positions of the centronics connectors :(
[00:31:03] <ssi> have to get them pretty well dead nuts in the layout or it won't fit
[00:31:21] <ssi> maybe I should make a board for just the 26 pin feedback connector with the cpld on it
[00:31:34] <ssi> and then either do a separate board for the drive io connector or just handwire it
[00:32:03] <PetefromTn_> draw it up in cad and get it all laid out then decide which is easier.
[00:32:22] <ssi> easy isn't so much the issue as is safe
[00:32:47] <PetefromTn_> i thought we were talking about the low voltage side...
[00:32:53] <ssi> I don't mean electrically safe
[00:33:07] <ssi> I mean "I spent $100 and waited a week for boards and the fuckers don't fit by 0.010" safe
[00:33:39] <ssi> I really really don't like to have to respin boards :)
[00:33:41] <PetefromTn_> like I said draw it out in cad and hell 3d print a prototype if you can LOL
[00:33:54] <ssi> yeah worth a shot hehe
[00:34:47] <PetefromTn_> you're a resourceful punk use your resources!
[00:35:07] <PetefromTn_> ;)
[00:35:53] <PetefromTn_> I am so stumped with this damn new scope wheel design I am working on.
[00:36:18] <PetefromTn_> I sure wish I had a nice CNC lathe here to play with it would make things a lot easier.
[00:41:18] <ssi> make it happen!
[00:41:31] <PetefromTn_> trying to
[00:41:44] <PetefromTn_> that nice slantbed is still for sale up there.
[00:41:51] <ssi> yeah
[00:41:57] <ssi> that's a damn deal
[00:42:03] <PetefromTn_> I think so
[02:06:04] <Deejay> moin
[03:27:46] <MrSunshine> yeey was on a retro gaming fair or whatever its called ... only thing i got home was 2 pci parport cards ... sigh :P
[03:28:55] <Jymmm> If it's retro, be lucky you dind't get ISA paraport cards!
[03:30:48] <MrSunshine> yeah =)
[03:31:20] <MrSunshine> but i got a fun project ... got a commodore PET700 standing ... thought i would use the IEEE48 port on that to run a cnc machine ;P
[03:31:24] <MrSunshine> 488
[03:31:31] <MrSunshine> if i can get it working. . no picture on it :/
[03:31:39] <MrSunshine> worked last time i used it .. 15 years ago
[03:32:59] <archivist> the ram in my pet stopped working
[03:33:03] <Jymmm> So did your penis, but, well you know =) TAKE THE BLUE PILL lmao
[03:33:17] <MrSunshine> :P
[03:33:24] <MrSunshine> archivist, you got a PET ? =)
[03:33:31] <Jymmm> (sorry, couldn't resist )
[03:33:48] <archivist> http://www.collection.archivist.info/searchv13.php?searchstr=pet+computer
[03:34:02] <archivist> a "bit" modified
[03:34:17] <archivist> added S100 buss
[03:35:39] <MrSunshine> mine looks like tihs http://www.6502.org/users/sjgray/computer/cbm2/pet700-128k.jpg =)
[03:35:48] <MrSunshine> got the swedish version with едц
[03:37:50] <archivist> http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Electrician-/121453900336
[03:40:53] <Jymmm> lol
[03:42:04] <Jymmm> http://chasnote.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/08/picture-49.png
[03:42:38] <archivist> somebody replied with http://www.ebay.ca/itm/Used-work-socks-/121453560545
[03:43:05] <archivist> and here is a recent offer http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/NEW-Scottish-independence-bricks-for-sale-/281450900378
[03:43:21] <Jymmm> http://i1139.photobucket.com/albums/n541/hollowtreeventures/ebay%20listings/ebaylistingdishes_zps81d5c812.jpg
[03:44:46] <Jymmm> I had a color Turbo NeXT Station, with CRT and DSP box, fully maxed out. I would have kept it if I had the room.
[04:21:06] <MacGalempsy> morning
[04:33:54] <Loetmichel> mornin'
[06:39:09] <MacGalempsy> how are things going today?
[06:47:22] <jthornton> too early to tell
[06:49:35] <MacGalempsy> been up all day so far, and about to go to bed. still waiting on the electrician to hook me up with some 220v in the garage...
[06:49:55] <MacGalempsy> but that wont be today...\
[08:56:13] <ssi> marn
[09:13:56] <ssi> man my bank account is looking unhappy
[09:15:19] <jdh> I"ll give you $1,000 for your laser
[09:15:50] <ssi> for the 40W tube and power supply? SOLD!
[09:16:11] <jdh> and the 100w tube and PS, and frame, and steppers, and drives :)
[09:16:16] <ssi> eh, pass
[09:16:37] <jdh> hrm.. and the sewing machine, I need new boat cushions
[09:16:53] <ssi> you can have the sewing machine for $1000
[09:17:02] <ssi> I'll throw in some sungard thread
[09:18:56] <mozmck> heh! what kind of sewing machine? sailrite?
[09:19:10] <ssi> nah mine's an old singer 591 industrial machine
[09:19:20] <ssi> it's like a sailrite 111, but without the walking foot sadly
[09:19:24] <mozmck> 591, that's not even walking foot
[09:19:28] <mozmck> yeah.
[09:19:49] <mozmck> Not worth near $1000, but don't tell jdh that!
[09:19:55] <ssi> shhh, I'm trying to get jdh to buy it so I can get a walking foot machine ;)
[09:19:56] <jdh> sewing machine geekery... next thing you know there will be sewing machien pr0n
[09:20:20] <ssi> machines are machines!
[09:20:22] <mozmck> I have a pfaff 145, but I'm sure my wife won't part with it.
[09:20:26] <ssi> heheh
[09:20:46] <ssi> I'm working on airplane upholstery
[09:20:46] <ssi> https://fbcdn-sphotos-c-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-xfp1/t31.0-8/1273558_10100489798108172_5430486084508652685_o.jpg
[09:20:47] <mozmck> and an old singer walking foot - oscillating hook.
[09:20:57] <mozmck> Nice!
[09:21:10] <mozmck> I may be one day if I can get time to get working on it.
[09:21:28] <ssi> well that was an intermediate project while I waited for the vmc
[09:21:39] <ssi> now I have the vmc, the upholstery will probably go untouched :)
[09:21:48] <mozmck> My wife has done some car upholstery on our cars.
[09:22:09] <ssi> https://scontent-a-mia.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xfp1/v/t1.0-9/10672253_10100490548539302_6407225546292985700_n.jpg?oh=133d4623b69296b2b3cb4d91698ce09f&oe=54BE9D52
[09:22:22] <mozmck> neat.
[09:22:34] <mozmck> I would like one, but don't want something too large.
[09:22:43] <ssi> yeah it's not small
[09:22:43] <ssi> heh
[09:22:49] <mozmck> don't let the FAA know you have that in there!
[09:22:50] <ssi> and vmcs don't come much smaller than that
[09:22:57] <ssi> faa doesn't care
[09:23:00] <ssi> there's an airplane in there too
[09:23:16] <syyl> hey
[09:23:21] <syyl> there are tabletop vmcs :)
[09:23:36] <syyl> defiance made one
[09:23:49] <mozmck> ok :) they are trying to make new rules about what you can do/have in your hangar I hear - don't know too many details.
[09:24:03] <ssi> yeah they are trying to
[09:24:27] <ssi> also, my hangars aren't on county land, they're privately owned
[09:24:35] <ssi> so the rules wouldn't apply to me even if they'd passed them
[09:25:04] <mozmck> good. I did see it had to do with getting federal money to help build the hangars or something.
[09:25:11] <ssi> what sucks about the rule they're trying to pass, is it's worded such that homebuilt airplanes don't count as airplanes til they're certificated
[09:25:23] <ssi> but folks're fighting that part
[09:25:31] <ssi> I don't mind the rule, there's lots of people using hangars as storage units
[09:25:32] <mozmck> Fed takes our money, gives a little back with strings attached.
[09:25:33] <ssi> and that needs to quit
[09:25:42] <mozmck> I see.
[09:25:52] <ssi> they're extremely cheap in terms of storage space
[09:26:14] <ssi> $100/mo for a 10x10x10 storage unit, or $300/mo for a 42x37x25 hangar
[09:26:15] <mozmck> huh, didn't know that.
[09:26:31] <mozmck> Makes sense.
[09:26:46] <ssi> problem is, folks figure that out and rent hangars for storage
[09:26:53] <ssi> then there's waiting lists at airports to get into hangars
[09:26:58] <ssi> the airport I'm at is 65 miles from my house
[09:27:04] <ssi> there's an airport 1.5 miles from my house
[09:27:07] <mozmck> ouch!
[09:27:09] <ssi> but it has a fifteen year hangar waiting list
[09:27:13] <mozmck> I knew there were waiting lists.
[09:31:35] <ssi> argh
[09:31:45] <ssi> I bought a cheapy external hdd enclosure the other day
[09:31:53] <ssi> and I just opened it, and.... it's IDE :(
[09:32:18] <mozmck> don't you have an old 40 meg drive around somewhere?
[09:32:23] <ssi> oh I'm sure I do
[09:32:37] <ssi> but I also have a bunch of 2TB and 3TB sata drives on my desk here
[09:32:52] <mozmck> yeah, bummer
[09:32:52] <ssi> and an extremely full SSD and room needs to be made
[09:33:44] <jdh> I stuck a new HDD in my wife's computer the other day to let her do backups. It saw it and offered to RAID1 it so I just went with that.
[09:33:57] <mozmck> I have my OS on and SSD, and put symlinks in my home directory so most of my data is on an internal SATA HDD.
[09:33:59] <jdh> wonder if you can actually recover the raid if one fails
[09:47:19] <ssi> morn pete
[09:47:36] <PetefromTn_> Good Morning Sunshine!
[09:47:47] <PetefromTn_> ;)
[09:47:49] <ssi> :)
[09:47:51] <ssi> what's happening
[09:48:21] <PetefromTn_> meh not much.. I gotta finish the damn parts I am making here and then my kids want me to climb up in the attick and get down the Halloween decorations...
[09:48:49] <jdh> that's what kids are for
[09:48:52] <jdh> send them up
[09:49:26] <PetefromTn_> well honestly they would love that but my damn attick stairway is kinda modded and steep due to the 9.5' plus ceiling in the shop.
[09:49:55] <PetefromTn_> it is a bit funky and I need to get it redone somehow.
[09:51:51] <FinboySlick> PetefromTn_: You mean to tell me the parts aren't done yet?
[09:52:10] <PetefromTn_> well that depends which parts are you talking about?
[09:52:31] <FinboySlick> Doesn't matter, so long as I'm putting useless pressure on you.
[09:52:45] <PetefromTn_> Oh well thanks I need more useless pressure in my life.
[09:53:07] <FinboySlick> :)
[09:53:17] <PetefromTn_> If you mean that job I did for that large local company recently that is done and gone and paid for and money spent heh
[09:53:44] <ssi> easy come, easy go :D
[09:53:56] <PetefromTn_> Hoping to hear back from them for more work but who knows.
[09:54:39] <PetefromTn_> they seemed to be happy with it and the designer guy said he wants to send me more work as soon as they have something who knows when that will be LOL
[09:56:02] <FinboySlick> PetefromTn_: You didn't spend it all on whiskey and um... ladies of the night, right?
[09:56:29] <PetefromTn_> yeah sorry man my life is not so interesting and has not been for a LONG time now....
[09:57:06] <PetefromTn_> when you have kids and bills and everything else that comes with it I am usually just lucky to cover the spread..hoping for better here tho! ;)
[09:58:26] <FinboySlick> PetefromTn_: Take comfort good sir, in my mind, your life is pretty epic.
[09:58:47] <PetefromTn_> Well I am glad you think so highly of me... LOL
[09:59:25] <PetefromTn_> Don't let me shit you here I am a happy guy with a home and family but I just wish the business was going a bit better...typical
[10:00:00] <PetefromTn_> It would be perfect I guess If I got more work in here and finally started reading DUNE!!
[10:00:12] <FinboySlick> PetefromTn_: Oh I know. I just like to *imagine* it epic.
[10:00:24] <PetefromTn_> yeah me too
[10:00:41] <PetefromTn_> what are you up to?
[10:01:04] <FinboySlick> Hmmm... Work, and sadly it doesn't involve any feeds or speeds.
[10:01:28] <PetefromTn_> ah
[10:01:34] <PetefromTn_> what kinda work do you do again?
[10:05:07] <FinboySlick> Head techie for a regional ISP.
[10:05:26] <PetefromTn_> ah programmer type then...
[10:05:36] <FinboySlick> More sysadmin. I program to relax.
[10:07:27] <FinboySlick> The work is very easy. Dealing with narcissistic management is the most challenging part of my job ;)
[10:07:45] <syyl> hey
[10:07:48] <PetefromTn_> Oh I am sure
[10:07:52] <syyl> you could feed the cat
[10:07:57] <syyl> so it gains speed
[10:08:05] <syyl> there you are, feeds and speeds
[10:08:38] <syyl> (yeah, that one was horrible.)
[10:08:45] <FinboySlick> syyl: My cat at speed would be a rather dangerous thing.
[10:09:37] <syyl> ;)
[10:09:46] <FinboySlick> He was snipped early, so without testosterone to damper growth, he became a bit of a monster.
[10:18:33] <ssi> lol
[10:21:41] <syyl> :D
[10:35:41] <ssi> argh
[10:35:47] <ssi> spent all that time drawing up a footprint
[10:35:50] <ssi> and it's the wrong connector
[10:35:56] <ssi> and they don't seem to MAKE the right connector
[10:36:25] <PetefromTn_> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SKm5xQyD2vE
[10:37:23] <ssi> thanks pete
[10:37:35] <PetefromTn_> what connector are you talking about?
[10:37:45] <PetefromTn_> the one that goes into the drive for the low voltage?
[10:37:46] <ssi> http://www.digikey.com/product-search/en?x=-1407&y=-74&lang=en&site=us&keywords=2-178238-4
[10:37:49] <ssi> that's what's on the drive
[10:37:50] <ssi> the feedback connector
[10:38:16] <ssi> what I wanted to do was get a pcb mount mating connector for that
[10:38:20] <PetefromTn_> I found that the connector on my TECO's was a japan spec less than common one over here..
[10:38:22] <ssi> and make the board plug directly into the drive
[10:38:44] <PetefromTn_> it LOOKED a lot like some more common ones but in reality it was not.
[10:38:56] <ssi> lovely
[10:38:59] <PetefromTn_> I would make sure you know exactly what connector it is before you get too far along..
[10:39:14] <ssi> I know exactly what connector it is
[10:39:26] <ssi> I even have some on hand, but they're soldercup
[10:39:31] <ssi> I was looking for a pcb mount version
[10:39:45] <ssi> see the nice thing about using these parker drives instead of teco
[10:39:51] <ssi> is they have manuals written in english :)
[10:39:59] <PetefromTn_> my manuals are english
[10:40:06] <PetefromTn_> and japanese
[10:40:08] <ssi> Connector Specifications:
[10:40:08] <PetefromTn_> and chinese
[10:40:11] <ssi> Gemini Drive:
[10:40:14] <PetefromTn_> and german
[10:40:16] <ssi> Manufacturer: Connector Model: AMP Part Number: Wire Gauge:
[10:40:16] <ssi> AMP
[10:40:17] <ssi> CHAMP .050 Series II 2-178238-4
[10:40:30] <ssi> http://www.digikey.com/product-search/en?x=-1407&y=-74&lang=en&site=us&keywords=2-178238-4
[10:42:05] <PetefromTn_> well good luck with it man. I have NO idea how to help you with that.
[10:42:33] <ssi> it's ok
[10:42:35] <ssi> I'm just bitching
[10:42:42] <ssi> they don't seem to make what I want
[10:42:48] <PetefromTn_> well we are here to listen
[10:42:56] <ssi> I suppose my best bet is to get IDC plugs and some ribbon cable
[10:42:57] <PetefromTn_> so keep wit yer bitchin'
[10:43:04] <ssi> and terminate the other end with a regular IDC header
[10:43:22] <PetefromTn_> that is what PCW was going to do for me with my connectors.
[10:43:41] <ssi> on the board I'll put a 26 pin IDC header AND I'll put footprints for phoenix terminals
[10:43:50] <ssi> and then I can use whichever comes out to be more convenient
[10:47:26] <PetefromTn_> that might actually make positioning your custom fancy FANUC fixit board in a convenient place a bit easier
[10:49:46] <ssi> yeah it will
[10:53:00] <PetefromTn_> http://knoxville.craigslist.org/mcy/4668418934.html I can't decide is this is really cool or what. I think it would be fun as hell to ride tho..
[10:53:30] <ssi> lol
[10:53:32] <ssi> too much money
[10:53:47] <PetefromTn_> Oh yeah it is too much money but the question is....is it cool?
[10:54:03] <ssi> eh
[10:54:07] <ssi> marginally :)
[10:54:20] <PetefromTn_> Honestly I think it is... but I am an old scooter guy from way back...
[10:55:00] <PetefromTn_> when I was a kid I had a Yamaha Riva 180 scoot and rode the balls off that thing for years. Lots of fun.
[10:58:51] <nofxx> please...get a real bike!
[10:59:05] <PetefromTn_> I'd ride that thing around LOL... I bet it is fun to ride.
[10:59:25] <PetefromTn_> I have HAD plenty of "REAL" bikes... about 15 actually.
[11:00:05] <nofxx> PetefromTn_, which kind of rides you like?
[11:00:15] <nofxx> trail/sport/custom
[11:00:39] <PetefromTn_> Well honestly I am a sportybike kind of guy. Personally I love a nice big ducati twin but never had one yet.
[11:01:14] <ssi> I rode a friend's 999 supersport for awhile
[11:01:15] <ssi> that was fun
[11:01:19] <ssi> and another friend's 848
[11:01:35] <nofxx> 2 man... 996/998 was always my dream
[11:01:47] <nofxx> have a 600RR, love it, but going to go trail... where I live roads sucks
[11:01:51] <PetefromTn_> That 999 is a beauty.. especially in black
[11:02:00] <nofxx> thinking about a tiger800 or maybe 1200, bmw or triumph
[11:02:10] <ssi> https://fbcdn-sphotos-c-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-xaf1/v/t1.0-9/536471_864222938852_1275719035_n.jpg?oh=275aacb89dac3bf2fb6995d4173a60a1&oe=54AA8956&__gda__=1421856369_513a0f62b702352a0895ca671625af8f
[11:02:22] <ssi> sorry it was a 900 supersport
[11:02:50] <PetefromTn_> yeah I like the 900SS actually quite a bit. They did suffer from head set cracks tho apparently.
[11:03:01] <nofxx> need to experiment that ducati twin someday... I can believe it'll be fun as 4 cyls
[11:03:16] <nofxx> can't*
[11:03:19] <ssi> nofxx: I had a triumph daytona 675 triple
[11:03:22] <ssi> and it was best of both worlds
[11:03:28] <ssi> torquey as piss, but rev'd to 14,500
[11:03:50] <nofxx> ssi, was going to be my next bike! love it
[11:04:39] <nofxx> but going trail hehe
[11:04:50] <nofxx> tired of braking!
[11:04:56] <ssi> I loved the 675
[11:05:02] <ssi> I had it the first year it was out
[11:05:03] <ssi> '07
[11:06:07] <nofxx> ssi, also by triumph.. the rocket! hah need to ride it someday
[11:06:56] <PetefromTn_> If I get another bike it will PROBABLY be an older bike to build into a cafe racer...
[11:07:06] <ssi> yeah
[11:07:12] <ssi> I won't get another bike
[11:07:14] <ssi> that part of my life is over :)
[11:08:36] <PetefromTn_> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oGadGdk75tc Not sure why but this bike gives me a stiffie LOL...
[11:09:29] <ssi> looks odd with the tank so high
[11:09:37] <ssi> very wasp-wasited
[11:09:39] <ssi> waisted
[11:10:10] <PetefromTn_> I like it.. and I LOVE that basic bike anyways.
[11:11:48] <ssi> I need to pull a motor off the sabre
[11:11:52] <ssi> bring it home to experiment with
[11:12:01] <ssi> I wish I'd done that yesterday :/
[11:12:43] <PetefromTn_> It would be a good idea to do that set it up and get it to lock down right OFF the machine is much safer anyways.
[11:13:10] <ssi> yeah
[11:13:18] <ssi> which motor would be easiest to pull?
[11:13:27] <PetefromTn_> Damn I wanted to run the machine this morning but it is looking really stormy outside.
[11:14:06] <PetefromTn_> on my machine the X was easiest just removed two covers and take it off..
[11:14:11] <PetefromTn_> dunno about your machine.
[11:14:15] <ssi> probably X
[11:14:19] <ssi> Y is buried inside the machine
[11:14:24] <ssi> Z is very high
[11:14:25] <ssi> heheh
[11:14:48] <ssi> maybe I'll run down there and try to pull one real quick
[11:14:51] <PetefromTn_> didn't you say you had a small forklift?
[11:14:58] <ssi> at home, yes
[11:15:02] <PetefromTn_> oh
[11:15:08] <ssi> why?
[11:15:33] <PetefromTn_> well that is how I first supported the millhead when I removed the motor at the guys shop to get the machine over here.
[11:16:19] <ssi> the head is currently supported on a 4x4 on the table
[11:17:12] <PetefromTn_> yeah like I said I was able to CRANK the head up by removing the bolts to the Z motor and turned the entire Z motor on it's flat mount to lift the millhead up. It actually worked pretty well.
[11:18:35] <PetefromTn_> that way you can get the head up off the table and then set it where you need it. To be able to access the table motors. If it is like mine you need the table all the way to the right.
[11:20:53] <ssi> oh shit
[11:20:56] <ssi> that's gonna be a hassle :P
[11:21:02] <PetefromTn_> what is?
[11:21:10] <ssi> having to move the table to get to the motor
[11:21:28] <PetefromTn_> Actually once the millhead is off it you can just push it...
[11:21:32] <PetefromTn_> physically I mean.
[11:21:32] <ssi> gotcha
[11:22:11] <ssi> might be easier to try to pull the Y motor
[11:22:18] <ssi> I can get to the Y motor to remove the bolts
[11:22:22] <ssi> but I'm not sure what the coupler is
[11:22:27] <ssi> if the coupler just slips apart, it'll be easy
[11:22:33] <ssi> but if there's a setscrew or something I dunno how to get to it
[11:22:47] <PetefromTn_> mine were crimped on as I said before.
[11:22:55] <ssi> crimped?
[11:23:08] <PetefromTn_> which may mean if yours are similar and you removed the motors you cannot put them back without replacing the coupler.
[11:23:28] <ssi> I hope that's not the case :/
[11:23:43] <PetefromTn_> yeah it had like a steel tube and the shaft had like a wide keyway in it... then they crimped the tube into the keyway sorta kinda thing.
[11:23:54] <PetefromTn_> I was unable to reuse them but I did not plan to...
[11:24:06] <ssi> odd
[11:24:24] <PetefromTn_> It did have a large collar with a large setscrew that holds the crimp in.
[11:24:37] <PetefromTn_> I have no idea what they call that kinda coupling...
[11:24:40] <PetefromTn_> never seen it before.
[11:24:46] <ssi> oh well
[11:24:52] <ssi> I'm gonna get on the road, go try to pull one
[11:25:02] <ssi> and stop by forrest's work on the way back and pick up a cpld eval board to screw with
[11:25:05] <ssi> bbiab
[11:25:25] <PetefromTn_> enjoy..
[12:06:57] <zeeshan-laptop> hi
[14:07:10] <Connor> PetefromTn_, ssi, Just got 28lbs of metal stock in -- For the column and spindle extensions and ballnut mounts. :)
[14:29:27] <Jymmm> What does this mean? "Steel tubing... NORMALIZED"
[14:34:39] <SpeedEvil> normalised is a form of heat treating to remove stress
[14:34:49] <Jymmm> ah, ty
[14:35:20] <SpeedEvil> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carbon_steel
[14:35:40] <Jymmm> this is 4130 fwiw
[14:37:31] <Jymmm> 90K PSI Tensile strength seems low, doesn't it?
[14:37:50] <Jymmm> 95HRB
[14:58:10] <PetefromTn_> Connor Good news man glad to hear you got the material
[15:47:41] <ssi> back
[15:47:53] <PetefromTn_> front
[16:01:25] <ssi> hm interesting
[16:01:27] <ssi> Hall-less Startup on Gemini
[16:01:27] <ssi> It is possible to run motors on the Gemini without hall effect sensors. Please contact the Applications Engineers for the custom operating system.
[16:01:30] <ssi> NOTE: This feature will not work with an Emergency brake. The brake will not allow the drive to "wake and wiggle," or "wake and twitch", also known as "wake and shake". The purpose of the wake and twitch is to allow the drive to move the rotor (or platen for linears) in very small increments to determine the exact location in the electrical cycle. The Gemini drive then commutates the motor from the encoder feedback.
[16:01:36] <ssi> The standard operating system uses the hall effect sensors to determine the rotor (or platen) location at initialization and continues to look at the hall-effects until a transition occurs.
[16:17:48] <Deejay> gn8
[16:30:56] <MrSunshine> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b7M1mMhOvr0 next build project!
[16:33:33] <MrSunshine> shouldnt be needed with my next table build tho but never a bad thing to have =P
[16:37:00] <kfoltman> hi Loetmichel
[16:37:11] <kfoltman> do you remember the feed/speed/depth for aluminium for proxxon?
[16:37:24] <kfoltman> 800mm/20krpm/0.15mm and 1.6mm bit = broken bit
[16:37:57] <kfoltman> pocketed holes went fine but the bit died within 4cm of a profiled slot
[16:38:36] <Loetmichel> forgot cooling?
[16:38:52] <kfoltman> I sprinkled some 3-in-1 liberally, but that hardly counts
[16:39:08] <Loetmichel> get yourself a pump spray and some car winter windshield cleaner
[16:39:24] <Loetmichel> works very good to cool smeary aluminium
[16:39:59] <Loetmichel> an 1,6mm 2 flute bit ground for amuminium?
[16:40:09] <kfoltman> just a random PCB endmill
[16:40:12] <archivist> lube matters, metal sticks to the tool it stops cutting
[16:40:16] <Loetmichel> that should stand F1200 and hgiher at 20krpm
[16:40:25] <Loetmichel> and ub to 0,2mm deep
[16:40:36] <kfoltman> is it normal that the aluminium basically becomes a dust instead of a chip?
[16:40:46] <Loetmichel> for a proxxon: yes
[16:41:14] <kfoltman> I was going to reduce F to 400
[16:41:22] <kfoltman> maybe wrong type of bit
[16:41:37] <Loetmichel> archivist: actually windshield cleaner winter contains glycol, which lubes quite good
[16:42:03] <Loetmichel> or some other means of defrosting, which also seems to lube well
[16:42:21] <Loetmichel> kfoltman: use the sorotec aluminium bits
[16:42:32] <Loetmichel> WAY better than anthing made for PCbs
[16:44:59] <kfoltman> yeah, I used those 1.6mm ones just because I don't have many uses for them :)
[16:46:36] <kfoltman> Loetmichel: does it make sense to try a larger bit?
[16:47:12] <kfoltman> I have some 1/8" 'disposable' endmills
[16:47:14] <Loetmichel> no, it makes sense to use the bigges bit that fits and is made for the material in question
[16:47:53] <Loetmichel> the PCb bits have the wronge angles, too less chip room and are usually already dull when you buy them
[16:48:33] <Loetmichel> all things that are not taken well by the more smeary aluminium alloys
[16:48:47] <kfoltman> so, you mean, something like this? http://www.sorotec.de/shop/product_info.php/info/p439_end-mill-double-flute-alu--1-6mm.html
[16:49:37] <Loetmichel> yes
[16:49:43] <archivist> you will snap bits till you have some form of lube
[16:50:05] <Loetmichel> archivist: depends on his alloy
[16:50:24] <Loetmichel> al99.9: yes, will snapp even with aluminium bits
[16:50:47] <Loetmichel> AlMg3: will happily cut without any cooling/mist
[16:50:54] <archivist> copper alloyed with ally is nicer to machine
[16:51:59] <Loetmichel> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BWTTP0RomA0 <- 2mm 2 flute for aluminium, material is AlMg3
[16:52:34] <Loetmichel> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AkKHPsJtZlc same bit, same material
[16:53:13] <ssi> Loetmichel: my new vmc has an 8000rpm 15hp spindle
[16:53:14] <Loetmichel> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9u_ChO1AKYY <- same, just an 8mm thick sheet
[16:53:18] <ssi> I can't wait to cut with it :D
[16:54:12] <ssi> ooh you've been playing Elite:Dangerous
[16:54:21] <ssi> Adjective:Adjective
[16:54:31] <Loetmichel> i do
[16:54:43] <ssi> I saw a VR demo of it, looked like fun
[16:54:56] <Loetmichel> it is
[16:55:05] <Loetmichel> a bit expensive for the beta, but it is fun
[16:58:06] <kfoltman> Loetmichel: how did you mount those sheets? vacuum I suppose?
[17:21:40] <tjtr33> https://videobin.org/+86o/azf.html
[17:45:18] <Loetmichel> kfoltman: vacuum and/or double sided tape
[18:37:38] <mblaszkiewicz> hello anyone here tonight
[18:38:12] <mblaszkiewicz> having problems with hal again. it was working the other day and today it crashed
[18:39:37] <tjtr33> hal crashed? maybe not, describe what you see happen.
[18:40:17] <mblaszkiewicz> Debug file information: Brother_TC-211.hal:31: Pin 'hm2_5i25.0.7i77.0.1.output-03' does not exist 2668 PID TTY STAT TIME COMMAND Stopping realtime threads Unloading hal components
[18:40:26] <mblaszkiewicz> that is the error
[18:40:46] <mblaszkiewicz> the line
[18:40:48] <mblaszkiewicz> net machine-is-enabled hm2_5i25.0.7i77.0.0.output-03
[18:41:06] <mblaszkiewicz> It was all ok 2 days ago when I shut it down ???
[18:41:18] <jdh> did it exist before?
[18:41:26] <mblaszkiewicz> yes
[18:41:32] <mblaszkiewicz> it worked fine
[18:41:32] <PetefromTn_> Woah you have a BROTHER TC211? Sweet
[18:41:33] <jdh> do you have field power on the daughterboards?
[18:41:42] <mblaszkiewicz> yes
[18:41:44] <mblaszkiewicz> http://pastebin.com/P34UWZVx
[18:41:51] <mblaszkiewicz> that is the hal file
[18:42:14] <jdh> first one. are you sure you have power to teh 7i77
[18:42:29] <mblaszkiewicz> it may go up for sale in a few moths cheap if I get it running and get a job or 2 through a buddy of mine
[18:42:45] <mblaszkiewicz> I'll need to upgrade
[18:44:41] <tjtr33> in axis, choose machine configuration, see if the devices & pins exist (maybe bad connections, wrong firmware, missing neccesary power)
[18:45:11] <mblaszkiewicz> I can't get it started now
[18:45:23] <jdh> are you sure you have power to the 7i77
[18:46:11] <mblaszkiewicz> yes all lights are on
[18:47:07] <jdh> cable to 7i77 is good?
[18:47:36] <mblaszkiewicz> this is weird I tried again and it just started
[18:47:50] <mblaszkiewicz> didn't even get off my chair
[18:48:14] <mblaszkiewicz> I think this machine is possesed
[18:48:31] <tjtr33> check all connections or call a priest
[18:48:52] <mblaszkiewicz> If things go right I might sell it for about 4 grand with the pc and any tooling I have for it at the time
[19:02:22] <mblaszkiewicz> well thanks anyways. Time to start playing with the machine for the 1st time :)
[19:09:12] <PetefromTn_> When I was looking for my first VMC the older brother machines were some of the most attractive I was looking at. I nearly bought one from a guy in Texas.
[19:10:13] <PetefromTn_> If I did not need a CNC lathe and had already bought the VMC I have here I might have been interested. Do you have a build thread somewhere?
[19:12:10] <jdh> what makes it a drill/tap machine vs. a general purpose mill?
[19:12:36] <PetefromTn_> most are 30 taper and have sick fast rapids.. but most also have smallish travels
[19:13:29] <jdh> 300x220x200mm ?
[19:14:04] <PetefromTn_> something like that.
[19:14:12] <PetefromTn_> the older ones were smaller still.
[20:22:46] <Connor> WooT: Nothing like recycling spade connectors..
[20:26:16] <jdh> heh, that's pretty sad
[20:26:28] <jdh> but, I also know how :)
[20:26:41] <Connor> Yea. I know.. I ran out.. and had lots from the old wires I was replacing..
[20:26:55] <Connor> Just put'm in the vise and use a finish nail to open them back up.
[20:27:22] <jdh> I usually just use visegrips or linemans pliers
[20:27:39] <Connor> how do you get them open?
[20:28:10] <jdh> squeezing them the othe direction does most, then stick something pointy in and tap
[20:28:24] <Connor> Yea.
[20:28:38] <Connor> Well.. It worked. :)
[20:33:15] <Connor> http://www.shinano.com/motors/docs/SST58D.pdf SST58D3820 Wonder if that would be strong enough to turn the rotary table...
[20:33:27] <Connor> 101.37 Oz-In torque
[20:33:45] <Connor> Wish I had a way to measure the torque needed.
[20:35:13] <Connor> Hmm.. and they're only showing it at 24v.. I would be running it at 48v
[20:37:43] <jdh> you also need to not-turn it.
[20:38:03] <Connor> Worm Gear
[20:40:23] <Connor> I happen to have 2 of these layout around.. from a OLD robot kit that someone gave me.. they were used to drive the robot...
[20:41:03] <Connor> from a company called evolution robotics.
[20:42:09] <ssi> Connor: measuring the torque needed isn't hard
[20:42:17] <ssi> if you only need to turn it unloaded
[20:42:27] <ssi> if you need to turn it against a mill force, that changes things a bit :)
[20:42:39] <ssi> but those things are like 72:1 reductions aren't they?
[20:42:48] <ssi> I think 100ozin is probably plenty
[20:42:51] <Connor> I have no idea.. let me look up
[20:45:56] <Connor> http://www.ebay.com/itm/281269671720 That's different.
[20:46:46] <Connor> 36:1 I think
[20:47:24] <Connor> http://www.ebay.com/itm/221354202721
[20:47:26] <Connor> that's mien
[20:47:27] <Connor> mien
[20:47:29] <Connor> MINE
[20:47:53] <ssi> MIEN
[20:48:20] <jdh> MEIN
[20:48:31] <Connor> Smart A$$es
[20:49:30] <jdh> got a collet holder for it?
[20:49:50] <Connor> No. 4" Chuck on it
[20:49:57] <ssi> anyway yeah, it'd be equivalent to a direct drive 3600ozin motor
[20:50:03] <ssi> probably will do fine
[20:53:31] <jdh> there are a ton of half-assed rotary 4th axis things on ebay
[20:53:41] <Connor> Yup.
[20:53:49] <Connor> I wouldn't have any of them
[20:54:11] <jdh> I'd pay $99.99 for one of them.
[20:55:01] <Connor> It's really mean to have a 3" chuck on it.. we made a 4" adapter plate..
[20:55:13] <Connor> meant to have
[20:55:40] <ssi> need to remake that thing in steel
[20:55:54] <Connor> This stepper motor has a old stay 15-pin D-stub on it.. Joystick style.. not VGA style..
[20:56:01] <Connor> I need a female version..
[20:56:12] <Connor> Last time I checked, Radio shack didn't have them.
[20:56:28] <jdh> I probably have some
[20:57:23] <Connor> This stepper has Nice molded boot and connector setup.. would be perfect for a accessory item like the rotary table.
[20:58:17] <ssi> frys has them
[20:59:02] <Connor> No Frys in Knoxville.
[20:59:12] <jdh> what about that place,over there
[20:59:18] <Connor> Shields ?
[20:59:22] <jdh> yeah
[20:59:23] <Connor> I rather order it online.
[20:59:41] <Connor> They would charge a arm and a leg for it.
[20:59:50] <Connor> twice what Radio Shack would. If they had one in stock.
[21:00:28] <Connor> Hard part is going to be figuring out the pinout on the stepper.
[21:00:49] <ssi> nah that part's easy
[21:00:53] <Connor> It's a 8 wire stepper.. So, Parallel or Series (BiPolar) or Unipolar.
[21:01:03] <Connor> I'm thinking Parallel
[21:03:54] <Connor> Based on the scientific method of shorting out pins.. pin 1 and 2.. and pin 3 and 4..
[21:04:08] <Connor> question is now.. if it's wired up series or parallel
[21:04:22] <PetefromTn_> Hey guys
[21:04:25] <tjtr33> how to set a hal pin in a M1xx python script? any examples?
[21:07:37] <skunkworks> tjtr33: http://www.linuxcnc.org/docs/2.6/html/gcode/m-code.html#sec:M100-to-M199
[21:08:20] <Connor> So, Is their a MAX voltage you can run a stepper at ?
[21:08:30] <Connor> I never really understood that with them..
[21:08:59] <Connor> Says Voltage 3.4v
[21:09:35] <skunkworks> Connor: higher the better - I think the limit is probably the insulation of the motor...
[21:09:59] <ssi> Connor: yeah the voltage that they're labeled with is terribly misleading
[21:10:20] <Connor> They're charts for this stepper is listed at 24v..
[21:10:25] <Connor> I'll be running it at 48v
[21:10:32] <Connor> so, Twice the speed same torque ?
[21:10:36] <ssi> no
[21:11:32] <tjtr33> skunkworks, thanks i read a value from a file and want to set it on a halpin , using python. those examples are all bash.
[21:11:33] <tjtr33> do i uses some cmd to exec 'halcmd setp pinname value' ?
[21:11:36] <ssi> higher voltage means faster step change in current, and the absolute maximum speed you can run the motor is limited by the voltage as it relates to the inductance, ie how fast you can overcome the coil's resistance to change in current
[21:11:44] <ssi> but it's not 2x voltage = 2x speed I don't think
[21:11:55] <skunkworks> tjtr33: I just know of the bash way...
[21:12:01] <tjtr33> thx
[21:12:40] <Connor> I think I'll build a stepper mount and give this one a try.
[21:13:02] <ssi> yes, do that :)
[21:13:08] <Connor> it had good holding torque shorted out..
[21:14:16] <Connor> First things first.. I need to finish everything else I'm working on. :)
[21:14:21] <tjtr33> skunkworks, i'll play with subprocess.call("halcmd setp mypin myval", shell=True)
[21:15:23] <Connor> http://www.geek.com/hwswrev/hardware/er1/frame_const1.jpg
[21:15:42] <Connor> You can see the steppers mounted to the 80/20 and going into the motor controller.
[21:16:11] <ssi> Connor: I brought one of the fanuc motors home
[21:16:14] <Connor> I just have the steppers, the controller and motor mounts.. didn't get the frame.. Not sure If I have the battery pack or not.
[21:16:24] <ssi> I'm trying to screw together the motivates to bring it in from the car
[21:16:37] <ssi> I want to put a scope/LA on it and look at the commutation signals
[21:16:39] <Connor> ssi ROFl
[21:16:47] <ssi> and hook them up to this cpld eval board that I borrowed from a friend
[21:16:56] <ssi> start working on the commutation state machine
[21:17:10] <Connor> CPLD ?
[21:17:27] <ssi> cplds are like tiny fpgas
[21:17:33] <Connor> Oh okay
[21:17:38] <ssi> or huge pals depending what era you're from :D
[21:19:11] <ssi> turns out the gemini drives actually can run these motors without commutation signals
[21:19:14] <ssi> through "wake and shake"
[21:19:25] <ssi> but they can't do it on axes with a brake, which I'm fairly sure my Z axis has
[21:19:46] <Connor> Okay.. so explain what the deal is with a commutation signal
[21:20:26] <ssi> ok so the way brushless motors work
[21:20:37] <ssi> the coils are stationary and the rotor is permanent magnets
[21:20:41] <ssi> hence the no brushes thing
[21:21:04] <Connor> Right. Similar to a stepper.
[21:21:06] <ssi> so, sorta like stepper motors, they have to energize the coils in a particular order at a particular time
[21:21:35] <ssi> in order to do that, the drive has to know where the rotor is
[21:21:47] <ssi> so it knows which coil gets positive voltage
[21:21:51] <ssi> the other two get negative voltage
[21:22:14] <Connor> Cause, unlike stepper, it's 3 phase.. not 2 phase..
[21:22:17] <ssi> right
[21:22:40] <ssi> the most standard way to do it is with hall effect sensors
[21:22:50] <Connor> okay... so, WHY are these any different than say the ones PetefromTn_ has for his machine..
[21:23:08] <ssi> because they're different motors?
[21:23:08] <PetefromTn_> who???
[21:23:47] <Connor> PetefromTn_: YOU. I'm trying to understand the differences between the servo motors.
[21:24:04] <ssi> so when the drive starts to run the motor, it doesn't know where the rotor is in order to know which phase to energize
[21:24:51] <ssi> if it's a hall effect motor, then it knows within 120 degrees / poles (or maybe 120 degrees / (poles/2)) where it is
[21:25:23] <ssi> my motors are 8 pole motors, so if it had hall effect sensors it'd make the whole 8-state pattern four times per rev
[21:25:27] <PetefromTn_> felt like the NORTH POLE here yesterday LOL
[21:26:11] <ssi> since the drive can see the state of the hall effect sensors when the motor is stationary, it knows approximately where the rotor is and can apply the correct phase
[21:26:27] <ssi> so it does trapezoidal commutation initially
[21:26:41] <Connor> okay.
[21:26:51] <Connor> So, That's YOUR motors...
[21:27:05] <ssi> no, that's "normal" motors
[21:27:31] <ssi> it only does that for <1 rev
[21:27:44] <ssi> until it gets an index pulse from the encoder, then it uses the encoder for more precise info on where the rotor is
[21:27:46] <Connor> OKay, so, what about Pete's motors.. I don't think his has that.
[21:27:48] <ssi> then it can do sinusoidal commutation
[21:27:54] <ssi> I don't know anything about pete's motors
[21:27:59] <ssi> it's almost certainly hall effect
[21:28:05] <Connor> http://www.machmotion.com/manuals/TED/550W_1500W.pdf
[21:28:06] <ssi> but he got them as drive/motor packages, prewired
[21:28:58] <zeeshan> how is a dc servo different than a dc motor
[21:28:59] <ssi> notice there's no pinout on that datasheet? :P
[21:29:02] <zeeshan> other than it having an encoder
[21:29:10] <ssi> zeeshan: no different
[21:29:19] <zeeshan> does it have more coils or something?
[21:29:27] <ssi> dc servos are brushed dc motors
[21:29:37] <ssi> apply voltage and they spin
[21:29:39] <zeeshan> wat
[21:29:42] <zeeshan> they have brushes?
[21:29:43] <ssi> reverse the voltage and they spin the other way
[21:29:43] <zeeshan> :D
[21:30:14] <ssi> Connor: anyway to answer your question
[21:30:39] <ssi> Connor: the fanuc servos use 4 bit commutation, it accomplishes the same thing as hall effect, but with an extra bit, so twice the state transitions
[21:30:44] <Connor> I'm looking at his manual. I see NO hal effect, just the encoder.. which is why your setup was confusing me.
[21:30:57] <ssi> means it can more closely approximate a sinusoid
[21:31:06] <ssi> and has the added bonus of locking you into their drives
[21:31:09] <zeeshan> ssi can you replace hall effect sensor
[21:31:12] <zeeshan> w/ optical encoder
[21:31:23] <ssi> zeeshan: sorta
[21:31:29] <ssi> that's how the fanuc works
[21:31:33] <ssi> it uses an optical encoder for everything
[21:31:41] <ssi> there are encoders that have the hall effect tracks on them
[21:31:49] <ssi> so instead of "true" hall effects, it uses the encoder for the info
[21:31:50] <pcw_home_> actually 16/6 times the state transitions...
[21:32:04] <zeeshan> why have hall effect on the encoder disk
[21:32:10] <ssi> pcw_home_: damn combinatorics!
[21:32:14] <pcw_home_> so they dont map exactly
[21:32:28] <ssi> yeah they don't, which is one of the things that's going to make my little project tricky
[21:32:42] * zeeshan doesnt get it
[21:32:44] <pcw_home_> its just a table lookup
[21:32:46] * zeeshan electronics noob
[21:32:53] <ssi> that's what I'm hoping
[21:33:03] <ssi> I'm trying to screw together the motivates to put a shirt on and go drag the motor in from the car
[21:33:14] <pcw_home_> but you need to write down the table...
[21:34:02] <ssi> zeeshan: you asked if you could replace the hall effect with an encoder
[21:34:08] <ssi> zeeshan: then you asked why to have it on the encoder
[21:34:11] <ssi> which do you want? :P
[21:34:15] <zeeshan> ssi
[21:34:16] <Connor> Why in the world would someone use D-Sub connector for steppers... ugg..
[21:34:18] <zeeshan> i'm confused how a servo works
[21:34:29] <zeeshan> i thought a normal servo was a dc motor again
[21:34:35] <zeeshan> but used a quadrature encoder
[21:34:37] <ssi> AC servos are not dc motors
[21:34:46] <Connor> zeeshan: Servo is any motor with a encoder feedback system.
[21:34:52] <zeeshan> so you had a way to get both position and speed
[21:35:08] <zeeshan> Connor: i guess thats why i am confused
[21:35:14] <zeeshan> theres multiple types of "servo mechanisms"
[21:35:14] <ssi> zeeshan: the drive has to know what the angle of the motor is so it knows where to push
[21:35:34] <ssi> in a dc servo, it just has to apply current to the brushes and it spins
[21:35:42] <Connor> ssi If it doesn't.. does the phases simply not catch up to it ?
[21:36:09] <ssi> Connor: some drives can "wiggle" the rotor and figure out where it is, and sort of intuit what the commutation pattern is
[21:36:10] <Connor> or will it do a funky thing and just vibrate.
[21:36:13] <zeeshan> what components are in an AC motor servo?
[21:36:14] <ssi> my gemini drives can do that
[21:36:21] <pcw_home_> commutation is built in on DC motors
[21:36:22] <ssi> but they can't do it on an axis with a brake
[21:36:37] <zeeshan> induction ac motor like the ones that drive a typical motor say on a spindle
[21:36:40] <zeeshan> and an enconder?
[21:36:43] <ssi> right... a DC motor has a commutation ring which has lots of little metal tracks that the brushes touch
[21:36:54] <ssi> induction motors are different
[21:37:03] <ssi> there's no magnets in an induction motor
[21:37:09] <pcw_home_> Induction motors are asynchonous
[21:37:10] <ssi> there's a field coil and a rotor coil
[21:37:30] <zeeshan> so you need to energize each one
[21:37:35] <ssi> asynchronous means they have slip
[21:37:35] <zeeshan> to get it to spin
[21:37:36] <Connor> Aren't those some times called Hybrid motors? I.E. AC / DC ?
[21:37:42] <ssi> the more you load them, the slower they turn
[21:37:52] <Connor> err.. I mean universal
[21:37:59] <zeeshan> how would you take a regular AC induction motor
[21:38:00] <ssi> Connor: PMSM AC servo motors are actually brushless dc motors
[21:38:05] <ssi> but people call them AC servos
[21:38:07] <zeeshan> and turn it in to feedback controlled?
[21:38:10] <ssi> just to make it confusing :)
[21:38:41] <Connor> I then you have BLDC
[21:38:45] <ssi> yes, they're BLDC
[21:39:12] <pcw_home_> the trick with PMSM is to energize the stator coils to you can pull the rotor around rather than pulling it radially
[21:39:48] <ssi> I guess that's done by "leading" the rotor
[21:39:51] <ssi> so you're pulling more tangentially
[21:40:28] <pcw_home_> which means you always want the stator field to be at 90 electrical degrees to the rotor position
[21:40:41] <ssi> zeeshan: so the other thing that makes this complicated
[21:40:47] <Connor> OKay.. Here is something strange.. looking at the stepper motor torque chart... It has 2 lines.. one is Solid, one is dashed.. Solid line says Pull Out, Dashed Says Pull In and the Pull out has more torque at higher speed..
[21:41:02] <ssi> zeeshan: is when you have a motor where the commutation track is on the encoder rather than actual hall effects, the encoder has to be precisely timed to the motor
[21:41:34] <zeeshan> commutation track is the one where electricity flows in
[21:41:40] <zeeshan> to allow the motor coils to energize?
[21:41:59] <ssi> no, it's feedback
[21:42:00] <zeeshan> too many new terms :-)
[21:42:13] <ssi> encoders aren't absolute feedback
[21:42:21] <ssi> so if you plop a motor on the bench and look at the state of the encoder
[21:42:22] <pcw_home_> commutation track is just info for the drive (to tell it the rotor position)
[21:42:26] <ssi> you can't determine the rotor angle
[21:42:29] <Connor> zeeshan: You need to double major in Electrical Engineering..
[21:42:51] <ssi> but the commutation track allows you to determine the rotor angle to some coarse degree just by looking at the steady state of the commutation feedback
[21:42:57] <zeeshan> Connor: never
[21:43:02] <zeeshan> i will fail
[21:43:23] <zeeshan> ssi i'll understand this shit more
[21:43:32] <zeeshan> if someone tells me how to convert a good ol induction motor
[21:43:35] <zeeshan> to a have feedback
[21:43:40] <ssi> put a motor on the back
[21:43:42] <zeeshan> i need to know what's added to make it control
[21:43:42] <ssi> er
[21:43:43] <ssi> encoder
[21:43:45] <pcw_home_> newer Fanuc motors have a 1024 count/ electrical rotation absolute encoder
[21:43:51] <ssi> pcw_home_: yeah
[21:43:53] <ssi> mine are incremental
[21:43:57] <zeeshan> by encoder you mean an optical disk
[21:44:02] <zeeshan> that picks it's position?
[21:44:07] <zeeshan> with multiple lines
[21:44:13] <ssi> yeah, that's one form of encoder
[21:44:22] <zeeshan> so technically i have a "Servo motor"
[21:44:28] <zeeshan> because i have encoders on the spindle
[21:44:34] <zeeshan> which keep track of the positition of the motor
[21:44:37] <ssi> no, you have an induction motor that happens to be part of a servo system
[21:44:38] <pcw_home_> yeah the serial encoders probably start around mid 90s or later
[21:44:43] <ssi> pcw_home_: my machine is 93
[21:44:53] <ssi> the serial encoders look like even more hassle to deal with, tbh
[21:44:53] <zeeshan> ssi as opposed to?
[21:45:07] <pcw_home_> much higher res
[21:45:09] <ssi> zeeshan: as opposed to a "servo motor", which is a colloquial term for a motor designed to be used in a servo system :)
[21:45:27] <zeeshan> so adding an encoder to a regular induction motor
[21:45:31] <zeeshan> doesnt make it a servo motor? :/
[21:45:34] <ssi> pcw_home_: on the fanuc stuff, the incremental encoders are called "pulse coders", and labeled as "2000P" or "3000P"
[21:45:47] <ssi> pcw_home_: mine are 3000P. Is that 3000 line? or 3000 cpr, or what
[21:46:00] <zeeshan> ssi: that all means the same shit
[21:46:02] <zeeshan> :)
[21:46:07] <pcw_home_> 3000 line (12000 counts)
[21:46:07] <zeeshan> damn terminology online
[21:46:13] <ssi> zeeshan: if you open the trunk of your car and stick a bunch of 2x4s in the back to bring them home from the store, does that make your car a pickup truck?
[21:46:21] <zeeshan> ssi no
[21:46:27] <ssi> pcw_home_: ok cool... I'm comfortable with that resolution :)
[21:46:45] <ssi> zeeshan: but could you say that it was being used in a 'pickp truck system'? heh
[21:46:55] <zeeshan> help me understand it wit htheory
[21:46:56] <roycroft> depends on if you just open up the trunk lid or sawzall it off :P
[21:46:58] <zeeshan> http://www.johnsonelectric.com/common/en/images/resources-for-engineers/motors/basics-of-motors/ac-motors-theory-01.jpg
[21:47:03] <zeeshan> thats your typical ac induction motor
[21:47:04] <zeeshan> yea?
[21:47:20] <ssi> yes
[21:47:33] <zeeshan> the reason sticking an optical encoder on the shaft means nothing
[21:47:33] <zeeshan> is because
[21:47:40] <zeeshan> you're basically saying.. i need an encoder
[21:47:46] <zeeshan> in series or somewheree in that electrical circuit
[21:47:47] <zeeshan> of the coils
[21:47:51] <ssi> ...no?
[21:47:53] <zeeshan> to transform it in to a "servo ac motor"
[21:47:54] <zeeshan> haha
[21:47:56] <zeeshan> okay then what
[21:47:57] <ssi> I don't know what you're trying to accomplish
[21:47:57] <zeeshan> im lost
[21:48:03] <pcw_home_> Most induction motors make poor servos
[21:48:12] <zeeshan> i'm trying to figure out how to convert an induction motor
[21:48:13] <zeeshan> to a servo
[21:48:26] <zeeshan> "servo induction motor"
[21:48:36] <ssi> you can run an induction motor as a servo by sticking an encoder on it and using an appropriate system to control it
[21:48:43] <ssi> but as pcw said, it'll perform poorly
[21:48:53] <zeeshan> does it perform poorly for 1 major factor
[21:48:54] <zeeshan> slip?
[21:49:01] <ssi> yes slip, lack of synchronicity
[21:49:08] <pcw_home_> You can with a smart vector drive, but unless you have a very smart drive and a special motor it will have lousy performance
[21:49:22] <zeeshan> i has smart vector drive
[21:49:31] <ssi> this is why we've been going around in circles trying to figure out how to get spindle orient going
[21:49:32] <zeeshan> it needs like some signal i think 0 to 10v
[21:49:40] <zeeshan> and you put in some values for p i d
[21:50:05] <ssi> it's fairly straightforward to use a vector drive and feedback to tightly control the speed of an induction motor
[21:50:05] <pcw_home_> Yeah but not designed for high bandwidth or torque through reversals
[21:50:18] <ssi> but as the speed gets slow, it gets worse and worse
[21:50:21] <zeeshan> can you post a picture of an industrial servo
[21:50:23] <zeeshan> from the inside
[21:50:41] <Connor> I basicly turned my spindle into a servo.. but, not a very good one because I'm using a SCR type driver..
[21:50:44] <ssi> http://powerelectronics.com/site-files/powerelectronics.com/files/archive/eetweb.com/motors-drives/servomotor-article04.jpg
[21:50:52] <ssi> Connor: your spindle is a DC motor too
[21:50:58] <Connor> Yup.
[21:51:00] <ssi> much easier
[21:51:22] <zeeshan> do the brushes
[21:51:27] <zeeshan> touch those copper pads
[21:51:32] <ssi> no brushes in that motor
[21:51:33] <Connor> But, still kind sucky due to the SCR driver.. Has acceleration built in.. and stuch..
[21:51:38] <ssi> those aren't pads, those are coils
[21:51:40] <ssi> it's been sectioned
[21:51:43] <zeeshan> o
[21:51:59] <zeeshan> so the big difference between this an an induction motor
[21:52:01] <zeeshan> is that it has multiple coils?
[21:52:09] <ssi> the big difference is the lack of induction :)
[21:52:22] <zeeshan> so there are brushes somewhere?
[21:52:22] <ssi> and the fact that the coils are the stator, and the rotor is a permanent magnet assembly
[21:52:25] <pcw_home_> No the difference is the rotor
[21:52:27] <ssi> no brushes
[21:52:29] <zeeshan> ah
[21:52:30] <zeeshan> AH
[21:52:30] <zeeshan> AH
[21:52:34] <Connor> No. Permanent magnet.
[21:52:43] <zeeshan> theres a name for this
[21:52:49] <ssi> "brushless"
[21:52:49] <zeeshan> that we covered in my controls class
[21:52:50] <ssi> :P
[21:53:10] <zeeshan> wait a sec
[21:53:15] <zeeshan> how is this any different than a stepper
[21:53:20] <ssi> :P
[21:53:24] <pcw_home_> the rotor in an induction motor is basically a transformer
[21:53:25] <zeeshan> looks the same
[21:53:30] <ssi> it's similar
[21:53:37] <Connor> The way the poles and phases are done.
[21:53:41] <ssi> but steppers are designed to "make before break" I guess you could say
[21:53:51] <ssi> whereas brushless motors are designed to continue spinning
[21:53:58] <zeeshan> http://avdweb.nl/Article_files/Solarbike/Motor-controller/4-Pole-brushless-DC-motor-animation.jpg
[21:54:01] <zeeshan> this makes a lot of sense to me
[21:54:20] <zeeshan> so every time you energize a coil
[21:54:20] <ssi> see the hall signals?
[21:54:22] <zeeshan> it turns the rotor
[21:54:24] <ssi> that's the commutation info
[21:54:26] <pcw_home_> a stepper is just a 2 phase 50 pole hybrid BLDC
[21:54:39] <zeeshan> gotcha
[21:54:44] <zeeshan> and a brushless dc motor
[21:54:48] <zeeshan> is polyphase
[21:54:58] <pcw_home_> (and can be runs as such, newer leadshine drives do this)
[21:55:00] <ssi> yes, normally 3 phase
[21:55:13] <ssi> 3 phase, N pole
[21:55:16] <ssi> my motors are 8 pole
[21:55:18] <zeeshan> man these industrial guys
[21:55:18] <Connor> pcw_home_: You talking about those hybird Stepper servos ?
[21:55:21] <zeeshan> need to get a kick in the ASS
[21:55:24] <zeeshan> for callthing this AC servos
[21:55:24] <zeeshan> lol
[21:55:28] <zeeshan> *these
[21:55:35] <zeeshan> i ALWAYS thought they were induction motors
[21:55:38] <ssi> yeah the terminology is not great :)
[21:55:39] <zeeshan> i learned something new today
[21:55:42] <zeeshan> thank you!
[21:56:00] <pcw_home_> Yes they run the stepmotor as a servo (basically same code as a AC servo just 2 phases insted of 3)
[21:56:29] <zeeshan> ssi when you say 8 pole
[21:56:33] <zeeshan> you mean its got 4 norths
[21:56:35] <zeeshan> and 4 souths?
[21:56:42] <zeeshan> NSNSNSNS
[21:56:42] <Connor> Right.. that's why everyone is raving about upgrading by using a stepper with a encoder...
[21:56:46] <zeeshan> in the permanent magnet?
[21:56:49] <ssi> zeeshan: I believe that's correct
[21:56:55] <Connor> it stops being a stepper as such..
[21:57:19] <Connor> zeeshan: Would have to be.. No one proven mono-poles yet. :)
[21:57:25] <zeeshan> hehe
[21:57:26] <pcw_home_> yeah its just a 50 pole servo
[21:57:45] <zeeshan> the only diference from the diagrams as you guys are saying
[21:57:49] <zeeshan> is a stepper only has a NS
[21:57:52] <zeeshan> not multi poles
[21:57:58] <zeeshan> it just has multiple coils you can energize around it
[21:58:03] <ssi> stepper has 50 poles
[21:58:08] <ssi> as pcw said
[21:58:10] <zeeshan> im talking about the permanent magnet
[21:58:16] <zeeshan> perm magnetic is just NS?
[21:58:23] <zeeshan> or NS times 25
[21:58:29] <ssi> no, NS times 25
[21:58:31] <zeeshan> ah
[21:58:33] <pcw_home_> (1.8 degree step motors are 50 pole anyway)
[21:58:41] <zeeshan> okay so basically
[21:58:44] <ssi> http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/6/67/StepperMotor.gif
[21:58:48] <zeeshan> you need 50 phase signals
[21:58:51] <zeeshan> to make mr stepper
[21:58:54] <zeeshan> work like a mr servo
[21:58:58] <ssi> that's why it turns a small step, not a 90 degree step
[21:59:07] <CaptHindsight> are there magnets that have other than NS?
[21:59:20] <pcw_home_> you need 50 phase rotations to get 1 turn
[21:59:24] <zeeshan> 360 / 50 = 7.2
[21:59:26] <zeeshan> math not working
[21:59:27] <jdh> EW magnets
[21:59:51] <Connor> 50 = 90 degrees.
[22:00:01] <ssi> right
[22:00:02] <pcw_home_> a full step is 90 electrical degrees
[22:00:04] <ssi> 200 to get a turn
[22:00:23] <zeeshan> i wonder if you try to provide 50 phase rotations to a stepper
[22:00:27] <zeeshan> if it'll burn down
[22:00:37] <zeeshan> cause of the heat generated
[22:00:44] * zeeshan is talking out of his ass now
[22:01:06] <ssi> oh, just now? ;)
[22:01:09] <zeeshan> ssi
[22:01:13] <zeeshan> so your motor must have 8 leads
[22:01:19] <ssi> why must it
[22:01:19] <zeeshan> that go to each coil
[22:01:21] <CaptHindsight> if you run it at too high a voltage
[22:01:28] <zeeshan> cause you have an 8 pole motor
[22:01:29] <ssi> they're internally connected
[22:01:32] <zeeshan> o
[22:01:37] <Connor> No. It has 3
[22:01:39] <zeeshan> how many wires go to the coils
[22:01:49] <ssi> 1 to each
[22:01:58] <zeeshan> how many coils total
[22:02:00] <Tom_itx> CaptHindsight, magnets have NS but can be many different shapes
[22:02:01] <ssi> 3
[22:02:05] <ssi> they're delta arranged I imagine
[22:02:09] <zeeshan> ah
[22:02:15] <Connor> 3 hall effects.
[22:02:22] <CaptHindsight> http://www.ni.com/white-paper/14877/en/
[22:02:27] <ssi> apply voltage to one coil, and current flows positive to the next, and negative to the previous ( I think )
[22:02:34] <ssi> and there's no net current in the third leg
[22:02:53] <zeeshan> in this diagram
[22:02:57] <zeeshan> http://avdweb.nl/Article_files/Solarbike/Motor-controller/4-Pole-brushless-DC-motor-animation.jpg
[22:03:00] <zeeshan> whats H1 H2 H3
[22:03:08] <Connor> That's the Hall Effect sensors
[22:03:11] <ssi> the hall effects
[22:03:20] <zeeshan> omfg
[22:03:23] <zeeshan> this makes sense now
[22:03:26] <zeeshan> ofcourse they'd use hall effect
[22:03:26] <ssi> heh
[22:03:30] <CaptHindsight> http://www.ni.com/cms/images/devzone/ph/a3427a871311.gif http://www.ni.com/cms/images/devzone/ph/a3427a871312.gif
[22:03:31] <zeeshan> cause you got a permanent magnet in the middle
[22:03:36] <ssi> right :P
[22:03:36] * Tom_itx turns on a light for zeeshan
[22:03:38] <zeeshan> which whenever it rotates, you'll get a pulse
[22:03:44] <zeeshan> its like a crankshaft sensor
[22:03:48] <ssi> yep
[22:03:51] <ssi> not just a pulse
[22:03:57] <ssi> the hall effect is steady state showing you the position of the rotor
[22:03:57] <Connor> more like a switch
[22:04:00] <ssi> even if it's not moving
[22:04:06] <ssi> that's the whole point
[22:04:10] <zeeshan> ssi because theyre 120 degrees apart?
[22:04:13] <ssi> you can turn the system on, know exactly where the rotor is
[22:04:23] <ssi> and by exactly, I mean exactly close enough to know how to commutate :)
[22:04:39] <ssi> once it's spinning, the encoder is working
[22:04:43] <Connor> zeeshan: What *I* was confused about.. was Pete's Servo's doesn't have any hall effect sensors...
[22:04:49] <ssi> then the drive can get an absolute reference from the encoder
[22:05:00] <ssi> and start doing tighter, more precise commutation based on encoder counts
[22:05:09] <Tom_itx> CaptHindsight, also: http://homepage.cs.uiowa.edu/~jones/step/index.html
[22:05:19] <zeeshan> why is using the hall effects not perecise enough
[22:05:23] <ssi> Connor: I don't know ANYTHING about pete's motors, and the documentation I could find was sparse to be generous
[22:05:40] <zeeshan> cause you have 3 pulses per rev
[22:05:41] <Connor> ssi Yea.. I was just looking over his documentation..
[22:05:41] <ssi> zeeshan: because when you're turning the servo slowly, you don't know exactly where the rotor is
[22:05:41] <zeeshan> ?!
[22:05:54] <ssi> you know it's somewhere in the arc that the hall effects can see
[22:05:57] <ssi> but not exactly where it is
[22:06:04] <ssi> so with only hall effects, you get trapezoidal commutation
[22:06:05] <zeeshan> so it's like having a 3 trigger optical disc
[22:06:07] <ssi> and it's "lumpy"
[22:06:11] <zeeshan> no resolution
[22:06:14] <ssi> right
[22:06:32] <ssi> good drives will actually apply current to the phases in exact proportion to the rotor angle
[22:06:35] <ssi> for smoother torque delivery
[22:06:41] <zeeshan> ok, im really glad i dropped out of EE
[22:06:42] <zeeshan> so glad
[22:06:42] <ssi> but they don't know the exact rotor angle without encoder feedback
[22:06:45] <zeeshan> :-)
[22:06:50] <pcw_home_> You can commutate exclusively will Hall signals
[22:07:13] <pcw_home_> some simple drives do, but they are "tickey"
[22:07:23] <zeeshan> i'm trying ti remember the lab we did
[22:07:27] <zeeshan> we measured motor slip somehow
[22:07:30] <zeeshan> for an induction motor
[22:07:34] <CaptHindsight> https://sites.google.com/site/controlandelectronics/stepper-motor-types this site does a good job of showing pulse vs position
[22:07:45] <Jymmm> Shouldn't you be able to using two hall sensors?
[22:07:57] <pcw_home_> you get a ~13% torque jump at every Hall edge that the servo system has to work around
[22:08:44] <Jymmm> thats not vey fun at all
[22:08:47] <Jymmm> very*
[22:09:13] <CaptHindsight> pcw_home_: doesn't your servo driver work without Hall signals by just reading the quadrature?
[22:09:20] <pcw_home_> kind of like dc motors with only a few commutator segments
[22:09:50] <zeeshan> the cheap dc servos people buy
[22:09:52] <zeeshan> are PMSM right?
[22:10:10] <pcw_home_> Yes the 8I20 (and the BLDC comp) can use multiple reference sources
[22:10:44] <pcw_home_> DC servos are not PMSM
[22:11:03] <zeeshan> they are just called dc motor servo?
[22:11:08] <zeeshan> (which means they have brushes)
[22:11:59] <pcw_home_> DC servos have a wound rotor and (possibly wound stator possibly PM stator)
[22:12:17] <ssi> https://pbs.twimg.com/media/BzT-LfTIcAAwrGy.jpg:large
[22:12:27] <zeeshan> i see 4 pins!
[22:12:34] <zeeshan> i see a part number
[22:12:34] <ssi> I like how it says OUTPUT: 0KW
[22:12:44] <zeeshan> a06b-0512-b506?
[22:12:49] <ssi> yep
[22:13:58] <pcw_home_> 4 pins are 3 phase and GND
[22:14:02] <ssi> right
[22:14:15] <ssi> and I was wrong
[22:14:20] <ssi> it's not delta connected, it's wye connected
[22:14:24] <ssi> hence the ground
[22:14:32] <zeeshan> yea
[22:14:34] <zeeshan> it says Y on it
[22:14:40] <ssi> right
[22:14:48] <pcw_home_> The ground is just a frame ground
[22:14:58] <zeeshan> just incase the coils short
[22:15:00] <ssi> pcw_home_: doesn't wye require a star ground?
[22:15:03] <zeeshan> and you dont get owned?
[22:15:07] <pcw_home_> no
[22:15:12] <ssi> ah ok
[22:15:24] <ssi> so you do have one up phase and two down
[22:15:33] <zeeshan> http://www.industrial-electronics.com/images/elecy3_20-2.jpg
[22:15:36] <zeeshan> WYE!
[22:16:17] <ssi> wye? because we want to!
[22:16:35] <ssi> it's amazing how tightly fanuc has their documentation locked down
[22:17:21] <pcw_home_> You have to remember that the drive signal is a 160V rectangular wave signal this drives into the (considerable)
[22:17:22] <pcw_home_> winding to ground capacitance, so you get real nice current spikes on the ground return
[22:18:03] <ssi> right
[22:18:22] <pcw_home_> so returning these ground currents to the drive (via a known path) is important
[22:19:55] <pcw_home_> you will find that you can get a shock from the motor if not grounded even if the insulation is perfect
[22:20:37] <zeeshan> ssi
[22:20:41] <zeeshan> whats that big ass connector on the red cap
[22:20:44] <zeeshan> do you know the pinouts?
[22:20:53] <tjtr33> skunkworks, it works :) code is like cmd='halcmd sets offval '+str(OfT) subprocess.call(cmd, shell=True) vid is https://videobin.org/+86p/azg.html
[22:21:03] <ssi> zeeshan: I have documentation that I think will get me there
[22:21:11] <ssi> it's a CMC, cannon plug
[22:21:28] <zeeshan> whats the pinouts for
[22:21:34] <zeeshan> 3 wires = hall?
[22:21:40] <ssi> don't have hall on this motor
[22:21:41] <zeeshan> couple encoder wires?
[22:21:44] <ssi> that's what started this whole conversation :)
[22:21:50] <zeeshan> oh ok
[22:21:59] <ssi> commutation is built into the encoder on these
[22:22:02] <pcw_home_> Theres a motor thermistor also
[22:22:02] <ssi> and it's 4 bit greycode
[22:22:05] <ssi> yes
[22:22:08] <zeeshan> what would happe
[22:22:14] <zeeshan> if you connected 3 of your phase pins
[22:22:15] <zeeshan> to 3 phase power
[22:22:18] <zeeshan> :D
[22:22:26] <zeeshan> @ 110v per phase
[22:22:35] <zeeshan> it would start spinning?
[22:22:37] <ssi> it might spin, it might sit there and vibrate
[22:22:38] <ssi> I dunno
[22:22:57] <zeeshan> i guess when way to check out whats going onn
[22:23:01] <zeeshan> is spin the shaft
[22:23:04] <zeeshan> and hook up scope to those pins?
[22:23:08] <ssi> that's my plan!
[22:23:08] <zeeshan> and see what waves get generated?
[22:23:12] <ssi> probably logic analyzer tho
[22:23:38] <ssi> then I'm going to try to cobble together interface hardware with a cpld devboard i have
[22:23:38] <zeeshan> i can ask my source @ fanuc
[22:23:41] <zeeshan> for a pinout for your motor
[22:23:43] <zeeshan> no guarantees
[22:23:43] <ssi> and try to write a lookup table
[22:23:51] <ssi> I think I have enough data
[22:23:53] <ssi> I have the cableset with me
[22:24:00] <ssi> and the end that goes to the drive, but it's cut off
[22:24:02] <zeeshan> nothing beats the oem data sheet
[22:24:02] <zeeshan> :D
[22:24:03] <ssi> so I know what color is what pin
[22:24:07] <ssi> and I have the schematics for the control
[22:24:15] <ssi> but if you can get me a fanuc sheet, I'd love to have it
[22:25:01] <zeeshan> i try
[22:25:40] <ssi> https://pbs.twimg.com/media/BzUBTjkIMAAeabu.jpg:large
[22:27:39] <pcw_home_> freeby.mesanet.com/f.pdf has a lot of encoder pinouts
[22:28:56] <pcw_home_> page 63 is probably yours
[22:30:43] <pcw_home_> or close
[22:32:01] <ssi> yeah probably so
[22:32:11] <ssi> same connector part num
[22:32:23] <zeeshan> im a bit scared
[22:32:25] <zeeshan> to retrofit my shit now
[22:32:29] <ssi> lol
[22:32:31] <zeeshan> i dont think theres any manuals for it
[22:32:31] <zeeshan> haha
[22:32:37] <zeeshan> i found out friday :)
[22:32:49] <ssi> man up, buy an oscilloscope
[22:32:53] <ssi> learn you up some EE
[22:32:58] <zeeshan> ee too advanced for me
[22:33:08] <zeeshan> i understand forces, fluids, heat transfer, continuum mechanics
[22:33:09] <zeeshan> thats it
[22:33:14] <zeeshan> not how transistors switch
[22:33:22] <zeeshan> i understand vibrations!
[22:33:30] <zeeshan> i notice the EE guys have similar diagrams
[22:33:31] <ssi> ee is just vibrations
[22:33:34] <zeeshan> to our vibrations
[22:33:45] <zeeshan> our equation is mx" + cx' + kx = someinputfunction
[22:33:59] <zeeshan> theirs is something to do with capacitance, inductance
[22:34:02] <zeeshan> and resistance
[22:34:23] <ssi> capacitance, inductance, and resistance are all just special forms of impedance :)
[22:34:23] <pcw_home_> its all the same
[22:34:34] <pcw_home_> only the names have been changed
[22:34:43] <zeeshan> pcw_home_: mathematically they are the same
[22:34:47] <zeeshan> i get lost in applicatance
[22:34:48] <ssi> impedance is the same thing as mechanical compliance
[22:34:50] <zeeshan> *application
[22:34:52] <ssi> well probably inverse to compliance :)
[22:35:05] <zeeshan> i can visualize a mass spring dampener
[22:35:12] <pcw_home_> admittance
[22:35:14] <ssi> even a non-PE retard like me can figure the stuff out, eh
[22:35:15] <zeeshan> not an impedance circuit :P
[22:35:32] <zeeshan> fak electronics
[22:35:36] <zeeshan> just tell me pinouts
[22:35:37] <zeeshan> im good to go
[22:35:43] <zeeshan> :-)
[22:35:54] <zeeshan> i like "BOX" diagrams for that reason
[22:36:03] <zeeshan> don't have to worry about whats going on inside
[22:36:05] <Jymmm> zeeshan: just connect all the pins together
[22:36:10] <zeeshan> Jymmm: plug and play
[22:36:11] <ssi> https://pbs.twimg.com/media/BzUDsxsIAAA_WDA.jpg:large
[22:36:16] <ssi> that's the fanuc servo drive
[22:36:18] <ssi> 3 axis drive
[22:36:22] <zeeshan> if i saw that
[22:36:26] <Jymmm> zeeshan: More like plug and dial 911
[22:36:26] <zeeshan> and had to decode the pinouts
[22:36:29] <zeeshan> it'd be game over
[22:36:39] <ssi> heh I wouldn't want to have to decode the pinouts on this bastard either
[22:36:41] <Jymmm> zeeshan: or grab marshmellows
[22:37:00] <zeeshan> all i see is ics
[22:37:02] <zeeshan> and capcaictors
[22:37:15] <zeeshan> and a couple of little inductors
[22:37:22] <zeeshan> whats that black thing on the very top?
[22:37:26] <ssi> all I see is horrible early 90s throughhole electronics
[22:37:31] <ssi> it's a heat sink :P
[22:37:35] <zeeshan> hey on the bright side
[22:37:40] <ssi> see the TO220s bolted to the side?
[22:37:41] <zeeshan> you can replace components on it easily
[22:37:48] <zeeshan> the white face things?
[22:37:54] <ssi> the white is thermal grease
[22:38:00] <zeeshan> oh isee it now
[22:38:08] <zeeshan> looks like voltage regulators
[22:38:12] <ssi> might be
[22:38:14] <ssi> might be transistors
[22:38:18] <ssi> don't really care
[22:38:26] <ssi> looks like $4000 someone needs to give me
[22:38:30] <zeeshan> hahah
[22:39:11] <zeeshan> doing car wiring harneses is so much easier
[22:39:14] <ssi> http://www.ebay.com/itm/301307684232
[22:39:17] <zeeshan> in comparison to cnc wiring
[22:39:38] <zeeshan> 4kl
[22:39:39] <zeeshan> damn
[22:47:56] <zeeshan> im making achip pan for the lathe
[22:48:02] <zeeshan> its a bit of a pain in the ass
[22:48:08] <zeeshan> because i wish i had a mig welder to lay the long ass bead
[22:48:16] <zeeshan> tigging is slow =/
[22:49:13] <ssi> there
[22:49:13] <ssi> http://www.ebay.com/itm/Fanuc-Servo-Drive-A068-6050-H402-Cincinnati-Sabre-/191363465937?#shpCntId
[22:49:16] <ssi> give me moneyz
[22:53:51] <zeeshan> http://www.kijiji.ca/v-power-tool/london/mig-welder/1023708531
[22:53:53] <zeeshan> seems cheap for a mig?
[22:56:53] <Gammax> evening all
[23:21:42] <CaptHindsight> zeeshan: does anything actually go on in #diycnc ?
[23:48:15] <Connor_iPad> So, how does one go about rigging up a plate so that it's trammed perfectly to the table? I know alignment pins. But how does
[23:48:34] <XXCoder> does this object has interior holes?
[23:48:37] <Connor_iPad> One go about aligning the holes for the pins to begin with?
[23:49:04] <Connor_iPad> T slots on the table.
[23:49:09] <XXCoder> clamping is black art heh theres few possibilities
[23:49:45] <XXCoder> for example you could make it drill holes on part where it will be void (cut out) and you can then mount it very firmly for outer cut
[23:50:00] <XXCoder> then do outer clamping for third stage of cutting out interior voids
[23:50:17] <Connor_iPad> This is more of a fixture plate.