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[01:43:03] <zeeshan> wear makes sense
[01:43:10] <zeeshan> unfortuantely i couldnt use a live center
[02:09:19] <MrSunshine> zeeshan, center or sharper tools ... looks like you use carbide .. carbide requires alot more force than hss tools to cut .. on small pieces like that atleast i would guess it will rub ALOT
[02:09:41] <MrSunshine> a nice sharp hss tool i think would improve the situation =)
[02:10:28] <zeeshan> i increased the depth of cut
[02:10:34] <zeeshan> and really increased the speed
[02:10:38] <zeeshan> and the chatter went away
[02:10:39] <zeeshan> http://i.imgur.com/JwTfKUx.jpg
[02:10:48] <zeeshan> thats what i was making
[02:12:21] <Deejay> moin
[02:12:36] <MrSunshine> so you introduced more force .. and carbide if im not mistaking wants alot of speed =)
[02:13:11] <MrSunshine> thing int he movie it looks like a real shallow depth ... and with the radius inserted tools has on the inserts that would result in alot of rubbing if you do not overcome that radius on the toolbit
[02:13:31] <zeeshan> so your esaying
[02:13:35] <MrSunshine> if you have a 0.02mm radius the aboslute minimum depth of cut would be 0.02 i guess ... =)
[02:13:36] <zeeshan> i should use a smaller nose radius
[02:13:48] <zeeshan> that does make sense
[02:14:09] <zeeshan> wow that actually makes a lotta snse
[02:14:15] <zeeshan> the nose radius was 0.016"
[02:14:27] <zeeshan> and if i take less than 0.016" cuts, it rubs
[02:14:35] <zeeshan> if i take 0.030 or larger, it likes it
[02:15:18] <MrSunshine> thats why hss usaly can take those fine cuts .. ofc ground carbide tools can also but =)
[02:15:28] <MrSunshine> they usaly dont have those corner radiuses like that
[02:16:03] <zeeshan> i mostly have vnmg 331 and 332
[02:16:16] <zeeshan> 33x , where x = 1 = 0.016" radius
[02:16:21] <zeeshan> 2 = double that
[02:16:33] <zeeshan> i should try vnmg330.5
[02:16:38] <zeeshan> its got a nose radius of 0.008
[02:16:40] <MrSunshine> http://www.cnccookbook.com/CCCNCMillFeedsSpeedsBasics2.htm it talks about mills but essentialy the same problem .. and some illustrations =)
[02:17:38] <zeeshan> http://www.cnccookbook.com/img/CNCCookbook/CutEdgeRadius1.jpg
[02:17:43] <zeeshan> that image is what youre talking about
[02:18:02] <MrSunshine> yeap =)
[02:19:01] <MrSunshine> and with a radius on the end you can understand why the tool needs alot of force to hold it in the material? so small pieces will bend and flex easily under those forces =)
[02:20:14] <archivist> and a small radius will wear faster, hobsons choice
[02:21:35] <zeeshan> yea but i guess it's needed for what i was making
[02:21:38] <zeeshan> dinky little parts :()
[02:22:16] <archivist> huge parts
[02:23:26] <zeeshan> huge in comparison to clock parts!
[02:24:21] <archivist> to watch parts :), or even Ford speedo gears
[02:24:42] <MrSunshine> archivist, true that =)
[03:11:56] <ReadError> hey guys
[03:12:01] <ReadError> what are those lasers called...
[03:12:07] <ReadError> it doesnt have a tube
[03:12:12] <ReadError> its like a module
[03:12:20] <syyl> diode laser?
[03:15:35] <ReadError> maybe yea
[03:15:42] <ReadError> I know theres some that can cut thinner stuff
[03:18:31] <Jymmm> ReadError: thinner what?
[03:22:14] <ReadError> Jymmm maybe some kapton for stencils
[03:22:17] <ReadError> or light ply
[03:53:31] <CaptHindsight> ReadError:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gF4HG6v29UY
[03:58:16] <CaptHindsight> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kGwleH913zs
[05:23:21] <Loetmichel> *gnah, i'm too dumb to tip over a bucket of water... just wanted to strip a wire and in the process i pulled it out of the xh-plug, and the contact at the end stripped a 1,5mm wide and 1,5mm deep stripe of skin off my finger... and it bleeds like crazy, already seeped thru the second bandaid :-(
[07:52:38] <jdh> OSHA recordable
[07:53:31] <Jymmm> ?
[07:54:48] <Jymmm> jdh: What do you mean the 5000gal proane tank can't be stored near the blast furnacne?!
[07:54:49] <jdh> we would have to turn on our red safety light, the bandaid would be first-aid so it would be an OSHA recordable safety event and our I&I rate would go up
[07:57:45] <Jymmm> jdh: I have nfc what Loetmichel is doing with wire stripping and water buckets. But, with blood floating i the water, no need to turn on red light
[07:58:47] <Jymmm> jdh: ...and, could just had the bleeder a botle of crazy glue, not first aid =)
[07:59:15] <Jymmm> hand*
[08:00:15] <Jymmm> jdh: Oh, are hawaiian spears holllow or solid aluminum?
[08:01:10] <jdh> spring steel
[08:01:37] <jdh> unless you mean a pole spear then they are usually fiberglass
[08:02:16] <Jymmm> Aluminum
http://www.makospearguns.com/product-p/mtps.htm
[08:02:41] <jdh> that's a pole spear, not a hawaiian
[08:02:50] <Jymmm> Tey are emphisizing painful fiberglass splinters =)
[08:03:24] <jdh> never had any, but I have seen poles with splintering glass
[08:03:49] <Jymmm> Yeah, just the thought of that creeps me out
[08:04:12] <jdh> I have 5 or so pole spears, one of which is aluminum (foldspear.com)
[08:04:34] <Jymmm> hollow?
[08:05:12] <jdh> it's hollow with bungie in the middle. snaps together like a tent pole
[08:05:46] <Jymmm> ah, shock cord in the middle?
[08:07:16] <jdh> http://www.foldspear.com/store/index.php?main_page=popup_image&pID=5
[08:09:56] <jdh> http://wilmington.craigslist.org/tls/4693491339.html
[08:10:07] <jdh> $1200 seems excessive for that.
[08:10:54] <Jymmm> willing to trade it seems
[08:43:40] <Jymmm> I really like this constrictor knot
https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=ppFgEyra_r8#t=70
[08:44:49] <jdh> 12x36 also seems to be less good than 14x36
[08:44:56] <jdh> Z: what is your POS lathe?
[09:20:17] <Loetmichel> jdh: i have my own personal package of bandaid in my drawer... woe would not be able to work if i had to record every incident where i needed one to the german "osha"...
[09:20:18] <Loetmichel> :;-)
[09:24:51] <Loetmichel> iand the water bucket was a german proverb i translatet 1:1... it meant "to be very dumb"
[10:52:33] <zeeshan> jdh: 12x36
[11:17:25] <zeeshan> man
[11:17:32] <zeeshan> thjis compliance tensor is a 36x36!
[11:17:40] <zeeshan> whoops wrong chan
[11:37:32] <jdh> you bought both ballscrwes/etc for your 12x36? cheap?
[11:39:27] <zeeshan> yea like $270 shipped
[11:42:51] <jdh> how much space does it take up?
[11:56:51] * JT-Shop just needs some closed cell foam to complete the AC project
[11:59:03] <SpeedEvil> AC?
[11:59:47] <jdh> anonymous coward
[11:59:55] * SpeedEvil needs another 30m^3 of foam to complete his AC project.
[12:01:48] <zeeshan> jdh what do you mean
[12:01:51] <zeeshan> the machine itself?
[12:02:37] <jdh> yes. if I put it against a wall, how mcuh wall space (minimum)
[12:03:14] <JT-Shop> I'm prepping the outside for siding so I had to take the Air Conditioner out of the wall while I wrapped the opening and framed it out with trim
[12:03:23] <jdh> snow there yet?
[12:03:27] <zeeshan> like 3 feet
[12:03:37] <jdh> it's a 36" bed
[12:03:54] <zeeshan> im talking about
[12:03:57] <zeeshan> in the X direction
[12:04:07] <zeeshan> in the Z direction about 6 feet
[12:04:21] <zeeshan> i can get measurements when im home tonight
[12:06:29] <roycroft> grizzly list the dimensions of their 12x36 as 67" wide x 29-1/2" deep
[12:06:44] <roycroft> and recommend 30" clearance behind the lathe for maintenance access
[12:06:48] <roycroft> if that helps
[12:07:01] <zeeshan> lies
[12:07:10] <zeeshan> jk
[12:07:20] <zeeshan> i used to have my lathe right against the wall in the back
[12:07:27] <zeeshan> i could never open the factory electrical panel :P
[12:07:31] <roycroft> as far as maintenance clearence, that depends on the operator
[12:07:40] <roycroft> if you're young and svelt, maybe 24" is enough
[12:07:45] <roycroft> if you're old and fat you might need 48"
[12:07:54] <zeeshan> or you can just move the lathe
[12:07:57] <zeeshan> when you wanna do maintenance
[12:08:00] <zeeshan> and relevel :P
[12:08:07] <zeeshan> if youre so tight on space
[12:10:21] <roycroft> i'm seriously thinking of getting a 12x36 soon
[12:10:34] <roycroft> i just have a 7x145 mini-lathe now
[12:10:40] <roycroft> 7x14
[12:10:44] <zeeshan> do you have a mill
[12:10:46] <roycroft> and it's annoying to use
[12:10:52] <roycroft> i have a mill-drill
[12:10:56] <Connor> 10x22 would probably be more than enough for me..
[12:11:09] <zeeshan> 12x36 is kind of small for me
[12:11:32] <jdh> 10x is much less mass than 12x
[12:11:35] <roycroft> the cost difference between a 10x22 and a 12x36 isn't really that great
[12:11:36] <jdh> (for chinese machines)
[12:11:40] <roycroft> and the 12x36 has a lot more mass
[12:12:02] <jdh> and ballnut clearance
[12:12:21] <Connor> My issue wouldn't be cost.. it would be space.
[12:12:35] <roycroft> yes, space is definitely an issue
[12:12:46] <roycroft> in my mind, 12x36 is an ideal size
[12:12:50] <Connor> only so much you can squeeze into a 11'x7' room
[12:13:08] <roycroft> enough mass, but moderately small size
[12:13:21] <zeeshan> i wish i could afford the clasuing colchester 21"x60"
[12:13:21] <zeeshan> =/
[12:13:26] <rythmnbls> the grizzly 12x36 needs 220v , so power can be an issue
[12:13:44] <roycroft> 220vac is a feature
[12:13:53] <roycroft> that means it can run on lighter gauge wire
[12:14:06] <zeeshan> why is 220 is issue
[12:14:08] <zeeshan> *an
[12:14:09] <roycroft> i have 220vac extension cords for my stationary woodworking tools already
[12:14:11] <Connor> http://www.ivdc.com/cnc/mill_02_26_14_02.JPG
[12:14:33] <Connor> the lathe would have to be ontop of that workbeench.
[12:14:34] <lair82> Hello Guys, PCW you listening?
[12:14:37] <roycroft> in my garage shop i have 2 20a 220vac receptacles, and a 50a 220vac receptacle for my brew system
[12:14:45] <rythmnbls> for me it would mean running a 100' extension :)
[12:14:53] <zeeshan> run it off solar power
[12:15:00] <roycroft> now my welding shop has no hard-wired power
[12:15:04] <Connor> I have a single 20amp 120 into my shop.. I need to get a 220v line hooked up.
[12:15:17] <roycroft> so i have to run a 100' extension cord out there for welding
[12:15:19] <zeeshan> connor
[12:15:20] <zeeshan> i like your bench
[12:15:24] <zeeshan> is that stainless steel?
[12:15:24] <roycroft> the extension cord is 6ga
[12:15:34] <roycroft> and it's pretty damn heavy
[12:15:48] <Connor> zeeshan: Yes. It's 7' x 40" I think.. ELEVATOR DOOR. :)
[12:15:51] <roycroft> i store it on a roll-around hose reel
[12:15:55] <zeeshan> nice dude
[12:16:15] <Connor> ontop of a I beam rack that used to hold 500lbs bombs for the USAF
[12:16:23] <zeeshan> haha
[12:16:29] <Connor> I got it from my dad.
[12:16:36] <zeeshan> that musta been fun to move
[12:17:01] <Connor> The door is hinged so it can tip up.. and it's on wheels.. so it can go through a standard 36" door
[12:17:46] <Connor> but, since only 2 of the wheels are swivel wheels.. I had to use a floor jack to raise it up and slide it into the current position.
[12:19:45] <Loetmichel> haha, my coworker just gifted me 3 t-shirts. written on them three exclamations i seem to make SO often that he could remember them for printing on thshirts well enough that he didnt take a checklist with him ;-) ( "augenmaß lässt grüßen" , "das hat der Newton da festgenagelt" and "erst sortieren, dann reden!") ... it seems i should up my vocabulary/proverb-storage a bit ;-)
[12:20:34] <Connor> Loetmichel: and those translate into English as ?
[12:22:19] <Loetmichel> Connor: being proverbs its not so easy to translate them. "augenmaß lässt grüßen" -> "measure it, dont use your eye to gauge it!" ( usually when i got the wrong size screwdriver/screw/ nut/ wrench/whatever)
[12:23:00] <Loetmichel> "das hat der newton da festgenagelt" -> "newton did nal that down there" (when something is to heavy to move)
[12:23:21] <Connor> nal = nail
[12:24:25] <Connor> You should see what Google translate does to them..
[12:24:34] <Loetmichel> "Erst sortieren, dann reden" -> "think first, talk later" ... when i AGAIN forgot the start of my sentence when reaching the end. ;-)
[12:24:38] <Connor> the last translates too.. sort first, then talk !
[12:25:12] <Loetmichel> yeah, thats about the meaning of it. Sort you thoghts, then expel them, not the other way around ;-)
[12:26:06] <Connor> We say.. put your brain in gear before putting your mouth in motion. :)
[12:28:08] <roycroft> i don't know any of those proverbs
[12:29:39] <roycroft> my favorite german proverb is "gutes bier and schöne weiber sind die beste zeitvertreiber"
[12:30:58] <roycroft> (good beer and beautiful women are the best way to pass the time)
[12:31:15] <roycroft> it doesn't roll off the tongue so well in english
[12:32:38] <Connor> Measure Twice, Cut Once.
[12:32:43] <zeeshan> no
[12:32:49] <zeeshan> cut twice measure once
[12:33:14] <Connor> Measure Twice, Cut Once, take a spring pass 2nd. :)
[12:33:21] <zeeshan> haha
[12:33:28] <Loetmichel> zeeshan: "mist, drei mal abgeschnitten, IMMER noch zu kurz!" (Shit, cut three times, STILL to short!" ;-)
[12:33:35] <Loetmichel> +it
[12:33:36] <zeeshan> haha
[12:53:47] <Jasen> Hi pete
[13:59:20] <Connor> zeeshan: What size of ballscrews did you end up using for your 12x36 ? length and diameter ?
[14:32:22] <zeeshan> 2505x1200 for the Z
[14:32:39] <zeeshan> using 1 fixed mount
[14:32:49] <zeeshan> BK20 i believe for that one
[14:33:04] <zeeshan> X axis was 1605-700mm
[14:33:17] <zeeshan> but my X sticks out
[14:33:25] <zeeshan> since the ball nut can't fit within the slide
[14:33:29] <zeeshan> without some major mods
[14:34:03] <Connor> the 2505 is what pushed the price up..
[14:34:11] <zeeshan> yea
[14:34:14] <zeeshan> i wouldnt go smaller than 25mm
[14:34:16] <zeeshan> for the z
[14:34:34] <Connor> Not with that span. No
[14:35:07] <jdh> how straight was your Z
[14:35:57] <zeeshan> jdh: i used a dial indicator w/ a base on the carriage
[14:36:10] <zeeshan> then i clamped parallels on the ball screw
[14:36:13] <zeeshan> and thats how i did alignment
[14:36:17] <zeeshan> i get it within 5 thou
[14:36:22] <zeeshan> so it doesnt bind
[14:36:36] <zeeshan> *got
[14:36:37] <jdh> I meant the screw. how straight was it when you got it
[14:36:44] <zeeshan> pretty damn straight
[14:36:45] <zeeshan> lol
[14:36:48] <zeeshan> i didnt measure
[14:36:52] <zeeshan> i did t he roll test
[14:36:54] <zeeshan> it passed
[14:37:29] <zeeshan> my only complaint is it's not a 0 backlash screw
[14:37:34] <zeeshan> its got at least 3 thou in it
[14:38:00] <zeeshan> my Z has .0045 comp
[14:38:03] <jdh> get some balls
[14:38:04] <zeeshan> and x has 0.0025
[14:38:27] <zeeshan> how many oversize balls would i need though?
[14:39:11] <jdh> I think the 20's have 3x17
[14:39:19] <zeeshan> yea
[14:39:24] <zeeshan> but not all of them have to be oversize do they?
[14:39:28] <zeeshan> i thought it was like 3-4 of em
[14:39:35] <zeeshan> or 1 oversize ball per circuit
[14:39:44] <Connor> No. You want more than that..
[14:39:50] <Connor> at least half of them.
[14:39:50] <jdh> 1 wouldn't always be in the screw
[14:39:56] <zeeshan> good point
[14:40:00] <jdh> I'd get enough for all of them
[14:40:23] <jdh> but for $280 shipped, I wouldn't complain.
[14:40:25] <Connor> You can do 1 big for every other one.. or every two... but.. that's the least I would go
[14:40:28] <jdh> get another pari of nuts
[14:41:12] <zeeshan> i have extra nuts
[14:41:22] <zeeshan> cause i was planning to double nut it
[14:49:11] <Connor> Why didn't you just get them with double integrated nut? Already preloaded from the factory?
[14:49:39] <zeeshan> he offers double nuts?
[14:49:48] <zeeshan> i asked him he said he only offers single nuts
[14:50:22] <Connor> I got them for 1605's and 2005's
[14:50:34] <zeeshan> pics?
[14:50:34] <zeeshan> link
[14:50:46] <Connor> Give me a few..
[14:56:27] <Connor> www.ivdc.com/cnc/ballscrews_100214_01.jpg
[14:58:01] <Connor> I think they're matched to the screw too..
[14:58:07] <Connor> not sure you can get them after the fact..
[14:58:18] <Connor> and, he may not have them for the 25mm size
[15:00:08] <Connor> Time go grab lunch. back in a bit
[15:01:19] <zeeshan> wow
[15:01:21] <zeeshan> those are bad ass
[15:01:27] <zeeshan> i wonder if i can use em with my screws
[15:01:36] <zeeshan> they look very similar.
[15:03:19] <Connor> You order yours from LMB2008 from ebay ?
[15:03:25] <zeeshan> ywes
[15:03:44] <zeeshan> i would love them for my 16mm scre
[15:03:47] <Connor> okay. same guy
[15:03:48] <zeeshan> thats the most important one
[15:04:16] <Connor> You can get them for the 16mm.. you may have to get a new screw.. I'm not sure..
[15:04:28] <zeeshan> do you have the ebay link
[15:04:48] <Connor> cgxfred@aliyun.com
[15:04:54] <Connor> that's his email.
[15:05:03] <Connor> His name is Chai
[15:05:09] <zeeshan> hey dude
[15:05:14] <zeeshan> so in between those 2 nuts
[15:05:17] <zeeshan> is some sort of washer?
[15:05:36] <Connor> No.. it's a half moon shape.. that's been ground..
[15:05:53] <Connor> and fits between the nuts.. to provide the preload..
[15:06:05] <Connor> which is why I say, you may have to have them on a screw.
[15:06:14] <Connor> because.. they'll have to be "fitted" to yours.
[15:06:25] <kfoltman> backlash cancelling nuts?
[15:06:47] <Connor> kfoltman: Double nut with pre-set preload.
[15:07:01] <kfoltman> isn't that a bit overkill?
[15:07:19] <Connor> No. You get down to .0005" lash. or less.
[15:07:37] <Connor> I'll have more lash out of the flexing of the column than out of the screws. :)
[15:07:59] <kfoltman> that's what I wanted to say - 0.0005" lash as long as the rest of your setup doesn't flex at all
[15:08:00] <zeeshan> i emailed
[15:08:21] <zeeshan> hoepfully they work w/ my screws
[15:08:22] <kfoltman> in practice, the backlash from the screw might be a tiny part of the overall backlash
[15:08:23] <Connor> Yea.. but, that''s why you do finish passes.
[15:08:39] <zeeshan> kfoltman: depends
[15:08:40] <zeeshan> :P
[15:08:44] <Connor> okay.. back in a bit. grabbing lunch
[15:08:48] <zeeshan> thanks connor
[15:10:10] <zeeshan> kfoltman: what do you think is a major contributing factor to backlash?
[15:11:52] <kfoltman> zeeshan: in my case, it's probably a super-stupid construction of the Z axis; in general case - depends, might be the materials that the gantry is made of, or worn-out/bad grade rails...
[15:12:24] <kfoltman> spindle mount
[15:12:25] <zeeshan> i think you're confusing backlash with deflection
[15:12:56] <zeeshan> or maybe even stiction
[15:13:07] <kfoltman> deflection is temporary, backlash is permanent until you change direction, right?
[15:13:14] <zeeshan> yes
[15:13:35] <zeeshan> theres really 2 major sources of backlash
[15:13:40] <kfoltman> so, for example, a loose spindle mount can easily cause a tiny bit of backlash if the spindle moves a tiny bit if pushed in a given direction and stays there
[15:13:41] <zeeshan> your fixed support isn't really fixed
[15:13:52] <zeeshan> and the clearance between the balls in the ballnut and ball screw
[15:14:10] <zeeshan> kfoltman: yes tha tmakes sense
[15:14:30] <kfoltman> of course I'm talking about hobby grade when not all factors are well controlled
[15:14:32] <zeeshan> i was pulling hairs over this :/
[15:17:04] <kfoltman> well, at least these days the information is available and components are affordable
[15:17:28] <kfoltman> no more drawer slide shit
[15:17:57] <zeeshan> haa
[15:18:00] <zeeshan> drawer slides :D
[15:28:22] <tjb1> Anyone here know of a good cheap way to mark parts/fixtures?
[15:28:35] <tjb1> Giant PITA to get anything lasered where I work and most is too hard for punches
[15:28:46] <tjb1> Chem pens don't work that good either
[15:32:54] <roycroft> lift your leg?
[15:32:59] <roycroft> that's how it's done in nature
[15:34:25] <PCW> micges-dev: thats impressive even with the little glitch, has to be a lot gentler on hardware
[15:35:51] <zeeshan> tjb1: are you making the same thing
[15:35:54] <zeeshan> again and again?
[15:35:58] <tjb1> no
[15:36:10] <zeeshan> i guess you cant use etching then
[15:36:19] <tjb1> Yeah I looked at that
[15:36:26] <tjb1> Looks like a PITA if you do different things
[15:36:34] <zeeshan> whats the hardness?
[15:36:41] <tjb1> Some stuff 61-63
[15:36:51] <zeeshan> is it possible to mark it before hardenning?
[15:37:02] <zeeshan> cause really after hardneing you only have laser, chemical etching
[15:37:03] <zeeshan> and edming
[15:37:55] <tjb1> yeah
[15:38:56] <tjb1> I dont think I can convince my boss to get us a laser for our department
[15:41:08] <Jymmm> "Lasers are so overrated, you want a 3D printer, yeah, that's it!"
[15:41:22] <tjb1> I have 2, how shall I work this out Jymmm
[15:41:35] <Jymmm> you have two what?
[15:42:11] <tjb1> 3D printers
[15:45:22] <Jymmm> tjb1: May I suggest that you configure them in this fashion in a dual to the heated death:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=j-9n2ImgJQ0#t=8
[15:46:28] <tjb1> http://www.penntoolco.com/catalog/products/products.cfm?categoryID=1959
[15:46:30] <tjb1> hmm
[15:47:16] <CaptHindsight> do you have a mig or tig welder?
[15:47:29] <tjb1> Not that I am going to be able to use at work
[15:47:30] <PetefromTn_> The shop I used to work in had a little scara like robot that had an impact head that would engrave dot style letters and numbers into parts for us. worked quite well.
[15:47:38] <CaptHindsight> or a grinder?
[15:48:02] <CaptHindsight> maybe die grinder
[15:49:39] <tjb1> CaptHindsight: Some stuff is going to require a small mark
[15:50:14] <CaptHindsight> small diamond drill
[15:51:10] <tjb1> Don't really have access to grinder either
[15:51:19] <tjb1> Company is too big and its not really my job
[15:51:30] <tjb1> but department doesn't own the laser so getting anything done is a pain
[15:51:46] <CaptHindsight> sounds like a mess
[15:51:59] <CaptHindsight> yet they somehow make a profit there
[15:51:59] <tjb1> I see a bigger mess coming :P
[15:52:14] <tjb1> The laser belongs to producting side
[15:52:18] <tjb1> production
[15:52:53] <tjb1> Also, somehow claimed 10 hours against our department last week
[15:53:19] <tjb1> We don't even give the laser an hour of work
[15:53:47] <CaptHindsight> tjb1: what do they make there that some other company hasn't taken over yet?
[15:54:11] <tjb1> CaptHindsight: I'd say the company but I'm sure chat is logged
[15:54:31] <PetefromTn_> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UbgZ5IoX8Dw
[15:54:40] <tjb1> We make lathes...
[15:54:46] <tjb1> mills, grinders, workholding
[16:00:03] <CaptHindsight> when it starts to effect their profit they'll figure something out
[16:00:20] <tjb1> This problem really doesnt affect their profit
[16:00:23] <tjb1> Just wastes my time
[16:00:29] <tjb1> Not enough for them to care
[16:01:26] <CaptHindsight> I hear it all the time
[16:01:57] <CaptHindsight> don't get into trouble by trying to help
[16:02:37] <tjb1> Well depending on what happens with the hour thing, it may help my hand in getting a way for me to mark the parts myself
[16:04:52] <tjb1> I'm sure my boss will notice when I am redesigning fixtures because I can't find the last print because no identification was placed on the fixture
[16:23:30] <Connor> Is there a way to drive a stepper in linuxcnc without it being considered a axis ? THINK tool changer...
[16:24:55] <Jymmm> I'm sure there has to be.
[16:25:01] <Jymmm> would only make sense.
[16:30:04] <Deejay> gn8
[16:32:42] <PCW> you can drive it with you own position command
[16:32:56] <PCW> (if its not a motion axis)
[16:33:14] <Connor> okay. would be using 5i25 + 7i76 with it.. I'm not familiar with position command..
[16:33:59] <PCW> you can give the stepgen a position command and it will follow it
[16:34:22] <Connor> okay. How would one go about handling "homing" it ?
[16:34:48] <PCW> you have to do that yourself
[16:35:18] <PCW> since you don't have motions homing logic available to you
[16:35:35] <Jymmm> classic ladder?
[16:35:50] <Jymmm> or how are other tool changers doing it?
[16:35:50] <Connor> I would be doing this with remap.
[16:35:59] <Jymmm> what's "remap" ?
[16:36:29] <PCW> Use an absolute encoder and dont muck around with homing :=)
[16:36:29] <Connor> remap lets you use gcode and python stuff to remap a g code command to set of custom scripts
[16:36:39] <Jymmm> ah
[16:37:07] <Connor> pcw That may just be the case.. Not got that far yet.
[16:37:17] <Connor> but.. generally.. steppers + encoders ??
[16:37:46] <PCW> steppers / encoders is fine
[16:37:52] <Jymmm> Connor: not if a feedback perspective
[16:37:53] <Connor> and I would only have the MPG encoder inputs available.. which.. probably would work since the carousal wouldn't be moving very fast.
[16:38:30] <Connor> All I really need is a index...
[16:38:58] <PCW> if you used one of the those magnetic encoders (AMS) you could do it without an index
[16:39:34] <PCW> (absolute SSI 10 bit )
[16:39:52] <Jymmm> 360/spr*Num_tools
[16:40:02] <Connor> 10 to 12 tools
[16:40:05] <Jymmm> sumtin like that =)
[16:40:58] <Connor> I wrote something for a Geneva mech for Pete's Cincinnati.. But, mine will be stepper based..
[16:41:13] <kfoltman> anyone tried using linuxcnc on an odroid?
[16:45:03] <Jymmm> Ok, so how are ppl doing tool changers now?
[16:45:36] <Connor> Jymmm: Like you said, Classic Ladder, and now remap.. Our custom program using a 2ndary controller.
[16:45:49] <Jymmm> secondary, why?
[16:46:01] <Connor> Who knows.
[16:46:30] <Jymmm> Defeats thw whole purpose of having tool changing g-code codmands
[16:46:50] <Connor> I'm working on a automated coolant nozzle.. it'll have something like a arduino to control it.. but.. will be connected via ModBus.
[16:46:51] <Jymmm> reinventing the wheel to me
[16:47:11] <Jymmm> automated, like moving into position?
[16:47:15] <Connor> Yes.
[16:47:33] <Jymmm> why go a HW route instead of a SW one?
[16:47:37] <Connor> and will know what tool is in use based on the T# M6 command
[16:48:09] <Connor> Well.. no "good" software solution to drive a hobby style servo.. for one..
[16:48:23] <Connor> for two.. I won't it to keep track of presets that you program into it..
[16:48:51] <Connor> you load a new tool.. you adjust a dial to set the coolant height to point at the tool location you want.. and you press a "store" button.
[16:49:18] <Connor> then.. everytime that tool is used.. the system will move the nozzle to that position.. or do a sweep if you've set that up..
[16:49:58] <Jymmm> It's your bbq, but I prefer KISS method, and what you're descibing sounds too complicated and a clusterfuck in the making, and far to complex to maintain years down the road.
[16:50:24] <Jymmm> But whatever floats your boat =)
[16:50:45] <Jymmm> You know whats best for you of course.
[16:50:59] <Connor> Jymmm: By that reasoning.. CNC is complicated and would be better off with Manual Lathes and Mills.
[16:51:38] <Connor> Really.. all we're talking about is a single hobby grade servo adjusting a nozzle up and down.. and storing that position based on the current tool number loaded..
[16:51:52] <Jymmm> No, That's not what I'm saying. What you described sounds like (in essense) spaghetti code. It will be hard to maintain.
[16:52:18] <Jymmm> Where a straight forward CL would work.
[16:52:51] <Jymmm> That's IF I'm understanding what you are saying correctly that is.
[16:53:12] <Connor> Okay.. let me try again.. cause I thought it was pretty simple.. You have a new tool.. in CLI mode you tell LinuxCNC T# M6
[16:53:18] <Connor> You load the tool.
[16:53:38] <Jymmm> Connor: no need to explain.
[16:53:48] <Connor> you turn coolant on.. and adjust a pot or mini dial.. to set the location.. and push button.
[16:53:55] <Jymmm> It's not WHAT you are doing, it's HOW you plan on accomplishing the task
[16:54:11] <Connor> You mean, using the Arduino ?
[16:54:18] <Jymmm> for one, yes.
[16:54:39] <Connor> and not "programming" the nozzle position in Gcode ?
[16:54:44] <Jymmm> If you dont have analog, arduino is great
[16:55:05] <Jymmm> That's fine, gcode routines are cool
[16:55:50] <Connor> Well.. part of the function will be a sweeping feature.. that moves the nozzle up and down during normal machining process.. not too sure how you could do that using g-code and such...
[16:56:01] <Jymmm> first you talked about stepper tool changer, and now automated coolant nozzle. maybe things overlapped in outr conversaiton
[16:56:13] <Connor> Yes. We're talking about 2 things now.
[16:56:48] <Connor> the automated coolant nozzle will be hobby servo + arduino with modbus.
[16:56:57] <Connor> the toolchanger will be linuxcnc all the way if possible.
[16:56:58] <Jymmm> I think you need to put a speed control of that hamster cage of yours a bit =)
[16:57:18] <Jymmm> s/of/on/
[16:57:31] <Jymmm> Connor: do you have a mesa i/o card?
[16:57:38] <Connor> I do now.
[16:58:07] <Connor> 5i25 + 7i76
[16:58:08] <Jymmm> is the arduino the simpler way of gettign going for now, then full lcnc solution down the road?
[16:58:37] <Connor> For the Coolant Nozzle.. I don't even begin to see a way to do it 100% with mesa/linuxcnc..
[16:58:51] <Connor> for the toolchanger.. It'll be mesa/linuxcnc from the start
[16:58:54] <Jymmm> but you can with ardiuno?
[16:58:59] <Connor> Yes.
[16:59:04] <Jymmm> how so?
[16:59:19] <Connor> I could use it in "basic" mode.. which is.. it moves it and stays for the tool.
[16:59:34] <Jymmm> mdi?
[16:59:51] <Connor> but. for the advanced functions that I want.. were it moves the nozzle up and down to sweep the tool while machining is in process... I don't see how that would work.
[17:00:13] <Jymmm> inc/dec counter?
[17:00:55] <Connor> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XLgC4TDAR6I
[17:01:14] <Connor> Talking about making a hobby grade version of THAT
[17:03:03] <Jymmm> I wonder if the tool table could be extended to store nozzle position ?
[17:03:16] <Connor> possibly.
[17:03:26] <Connor> but.. would want 2 positions..
[17:03:32] <Connor> a top and bottom
[17:03:58] <Connor> so you could choose sweep mode or stationary mode.
[17:04:03] <Jymmm> two extra columns?
[17:04:14] <Jymmm> ...in the tool table file
[17:04:23] <Connor> yea.
[17:05:18] <Jymmm> Could even have a nozzle tuning thingy too
[17:05:28] <Jymmm> in SW I mean.
[17:06:19] <Jymmm> Connor: Well, arduino to get a working demo, then maybe the final solution in SW?
[17:06:34] <Connor> Jymmm: Yea. possibly.
[17:06:53] <Connor> Would still need something the general servo grade PWM though..
[17:07:21] <Connor> because, PCW said not really good enough resolution on the mesa stuff for those..
[17:07:22] <Jymmm> pulse gen you mean?
[17:07:56] <Jymmm> it's not precion though, just sweep, so not significant I think
[17:08:27] <Jymmm> But nfc there =)
[17:08:56] <Jymmm> who cares of a stepper stalls, it'll just start up again.
[17:09:20] <Jymmm> you're not painting a monalisa with it =)
[17:09:38] <Connor> No. PWM for Hobby servo's.. not pulse gen.. no stepper involved.
[17:09:52] <Jymmm> RC servos?
[17:10:14] <Connor> Yes.
[17:10:55] <Jymmm> I bet if you look that are passive HW that could do that for you.
[17:11:04] <Jymmm> no programming needed =)
[17:11:36] <Connor> I'm sure.. I was just wanting it to be a little smart about knowing how far to sweep for which tool..
[17:13:18] <Connor> First things first.. I have to build the nozzle and casing.. and hook it up to a servo. :)
[17:14:32] <Jymmm> lol, better you than me =)
[18:08:07] <roycroft> teh plotter is gone!
[18:08:30] <roycroft> i finally found someobody who wasn't afraid to do a little work to hook it up
[18:18:42] <roycroft> it's amazing how resouceful one is when one is mostly unemployed, needs a plotter, and is looking at $150 for a used one vs. $2k+ for a new one
[18:22:46] <andypugh> $150 seems quite a lot, I am sure I paid less for mine.
[18:23:07] <andypugh> Yours may be bigger and/or better.
[20:16:33] <zeeshan> hi
[20:17:38] <zeeshan> for some reason i can't seem to take more than a 16 thou cut on the lathe without chatter on .625" dia work piece or smaller
[20:17:59] <zeeshan> keeping all things the same and instead mounting a 2.5" work piece
[20:18:15] <zeeshan> the chatter goes away. so now i'm thinking its cause my work piece is flexing
[20:18:27] <SpeedEvil> quite plausible
[20:18:33] <SpeedEvil> how long?
[20:18:41] <zeeshan> .625" piece sticking out 2.5"
[20:18:44] <zeeshan> 2.25 - 2.5
[20:19:36] <zeeshan> which is a lot more than the 3x the diameter rule of thumb
[20:20:15] <zeeshan> if increase the feedrate from 0.006ipr to 0.012 ipr
[20:20:51] <zeeshan> it goes away too
[20:20:55] <zeeshan> but the work piece gets stupid hot
[20:21:07] <zeeshan> which makes no sense :P
[20:21:18] <SpeedEvil> MOAR COOLANT
[20:21:26] <zeeshan> i am not using any coolant :P
[20:21:31] <SpeedEvil> Resonance is a really fun problem
[20:21:33] <zeeshan> i thought given all things the same
[20:21:43] <zeeshan> feedrate means more heat gets transfered into the chip
[20:21:44] <zeeshan> not the work piece
[20:21:52] <zeeshan> thats why theory isn't aligning with practice =D
[20:21:57] <zeeshan> so i am confused
[20:22:06] <SpeedEvil> Well - more heat may get transferred into the chip as a proportion of the total
[20:22:15] <SpeedEvil> but if lots, lots more total heat is made, then ...
[20:22:22] <XXCoder> heh coolant is nice but not magic
[20:22:33] <SpeedEvil> XXCoder: Unless it's unicorn blood.
[20:22:48] <XXCoder> some ops I do makes chips so hot that it steams
[20:22:56] <XXCoder> thats with very heavy coolant spray
[20:23:05] <SpeedEvil> And yes - coolant isn't magic
[20:23:21] <SpeedEvil> it will - generally - keep the workpiece from heating up much though
[20:23:53] <zeeshan> http://i.imgur.com/JwTfKUx.jpg
[20:23:53] <LeelooMinai> If it makes smoke, there's something wrong probably:)
[20:23:55] <zeeshan> i have to make more of these
[20:24:01] <zeeshan> so i'd really like to figur eout
[20:24:08] <zeeshan> how to reduce the damn chatter
[20:24:14] <zeeshan> =D
[20:24:20] <XXCoder> not smoke. steam
[20:24:58] <LeelooMinai> Let's call it smoke-like phenomenon
[20:25:01] <zeeshan> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nlKatLB8vVY
[20:25:11] <zeeshan> hear that? :D
[20:25:30] <FinboySlick> zeeshan: Does it have to stick out that far?
[20:25:45] <LeelooMinai> Did you try kicking that rotating part? :)
[20:26:04] <zeeshan> FinboySlick: yes because i'm attacking it from both sides using rh and lh turning tools
[20:26:13] <zeeshan> i guess i can break it into a 2 step process
[20:26:21] <zeeshan> and reduce stickout by like 75%!
[20:26:56] <FinboySlick> zeeshan: That will probably take away some of the chatter.
[20:26:57] <zeeshan> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MwUubp23p9o
[20:27:00] <zeeshan> this is aluminum
[20:27:06] <zeeshan> but this is EXACTLY how stainless stainless piece
[20:27:09] <zeeshan> 2.5" sounds
[20:27:14] <zeeshan> and the chips come out almost the same.
[20:27:16] <zeeshan> just a bit smaller
[20:27:18] <FinboySlick> zeeshan: It's pretty funny what youtube puts as 'related' to your chatter video.
[20:27:50] <zeeshan> FinboySlick: what does it put
[20:28:16] <FinboySlick> zeeshan: Bunch of videos from these girls:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kd6GX0yPen8
[20:28:27] <zeeshan> rofl
[20:29:19] * LeelooMinai adjusts her monitor because all colors suddenly got pastely
[20:30:02] <FinboySlick> zeeshan: That second video looks like it's giving you great finish.
[20:30:23] <zeeshan> yes, stainless is almost exactly the same
[20:30:29] <zeeshan> its shiny!
[20:30:54] <zeeshan> im going to start taking .25" doc in aluminum in the future
[20:36:15] <LeelooMinai> what is doc?
[20:36:29] <zeeshan> the person when you go to when youre sick
[20:36:39] <zeeshan> -the first when
[20:37:47] <SpeedEvil> What do you mean by 'stupidly hot'
[20:37:52] <SpeedEvil> And why no coolant
[20:38:10] <zeeshan> stupidly hot means
[20:38:13] <zeeshan> your finger burns instantly
[20:38:15] <zeeshan> when you touch it
[20:38:36] <SpeedEvil> That's anything over 100C
[20:38:40] <LeelooMinai> zeeshan: You made me to loose 30 seconds to find out that it means depth of cut
[20:38:52] <SpeedEvil> That does not meaningfully affect most metals - at the low end at least
[20:39:02] <SpeedEvil> (barring expansion)
[20:39:07] <zeeshan> LeelooMinai: now you will rememeber forever
[20:39:17] <zeeshan> SpeedEvil: my fingers dont burn at 100C
[20:39:24] <zeeshan> at 100C i go "OH SHIT"
[20:39:28] <zeeshan> and pull finger away
[20:39:39] <zeeshan> =D
[20:39:57] <LeelooMinai> I think one can feel something is hot and cannot really hold a finger to it for long at as low as 50 C
[20:40:04] <zeeshan> i do the tap touch test (dont advise others to do it)
[20:40:07] <ds3> 0.25 DoC?!
[20:40:15] <ds3> how many horses?
[20:40:23] <zeeshan> 3HP
[20:40:29] <zeeshan> 3hp can do that easily in aluminum
[20:40:32] <ds3> Corn cob?
[20:40:37] <zeeshan> lathe
[20:40:45] <ds3> ahhhh
[20:40:54] <ds3> I have stalled a 3HP mill doing cuts like that
[20:41:17] <zeeshan> i think you need like 5HP to do .25" doc with a 3/4" end mill
[20:41:35] <zeeshan> in al
[20:41:39] <LeelooMinai> Wouldn't it depend on how sharp the cutting part is?
[20:41:39] <ds3> will a 3/4" EM survive 0.25?
[20:41:49] <ds3> IIRC, i had a 1" corn cob
[20:41:58] <zeeshan> yea it will
[20:42:03] <zeeshan> if its a high helix
[20:42:09] <ds3> it was fun watching the haas stall ;)
[20:42:16] <zeeshan> at that doc you really need to evacuate the chips more
[20:42:36] <zeeshan> LeelooMinai: usually you're assuming the cutting edge is sharp in the calculations
[20:43:04] <LeelooMinai> Then, I don't know, how about feeding it slower?
[20:43:18] <ds3> what kind of rake was in your cutter bit for 0.25" DOC?
[20:43:21] <LeelooMinai> Or that does not matter?
[20:43:38] <zeeshan> LeelooMinai: if you feeding too slowly means too much chatter
[20:43:43] <zeeshan> im thinking coolant is my only way out now
[20:43:52] <zeeshan> since it's a small part, it'll heat up quickly
[20:44:40] <zeeshan> negative rake 3 deg
[20:45:15] <zeeshan> i should make a video!
[20:45:31] <ds3> what kind of machine is this?
[20:45:48] <zeeshan> 12x36 lathe
[20:45:53] <ds3> 0.25" _seems_ like it would run the risk of the cutter getting pulled in
[20:46:01] <ds3> as in the chinese 12x36's?
[20:46:05] <zeeshan> yea
[20:46:19] <ds3> wow
[20:46:36] <zeeshan> ill make a video, will take a little while
[20:49:36] <ds3> what alloy?
[21:05:14] <ssi> man I'm beat
[21:27:34] <bnmorgan> anybody have recommendation of a reasonbly priced 4axis engraver?
[21:27:40] <bnmorgan> not sure i trust the ebay stuff.
[21:28:21] <Tom_itx> anybody ever try a PATA to SATA adapeter for a 2.5" drive?
[21:32:26] <XXCoder> bnmorgan: if you know how to rebuild, ebay stuff is fine
[21:32:27] <skunkworks> don't know if I have ever seen one..
[21:32:46] <XXCoder> you would HAVE to if you want engraver of decent quality and cheap
[21:34:25] <bnmorgan> rebuild as in....repair them, or use them as a base to build something better right off the bat
[21:34:56] <XXCoder> pull it apart and build it again, but this time in proper spec
[21:35:03] <XXCoder> someone in here did it
[21:35:08] <XXCoder> I think it was CaptHindsight
[21:35:31] <bnmorgan> so they're crap out of the box but have the potential of being worthwhile tools?
[21:37:08] <CaptHindsight> bnmorgan: most of them ship without nuts on the end of the ball screws, so they have a few mm of lash
[21:37:32] <CaptHindsight> and they use cheap bearings
[21:38:15] <bnmorgan> hmm.... how long would a reasonably mechanically skilled person expect to spend getting one up to snuff.
[21:39:02] <bnmorgan> seems like things are <$2500 or >$15k
[21:40:16] <bnmorgan> going to be used for engraving mostly aluminum tubing with possible occasional stainless tube, text and serial numbers mostly.
[21:40:36] <CaptHindsight> I'd build something much better with used ebay parts
[21:41:21] <XXCoder> but then less money ship one unit than all those parts
[21:41:25] <CaptHindsight> what type of 4th axis do you need? tilt or rotation?
[21:41:28] <XXCoder> depends on needs and stuff I guess
[21:41:34] <XXCoder> or actual 4d cnc
[21:41:37] <bnmorgan> rotation.
[21:42:06] <bnmorgan> to be able to engrave on the surface of a cylender.
[21:42:13] <bnmorgan> cylinder.
[21:42:19] <bnmorgan> hm. neither of those look right.
[21:42:53] <bnmorgan> Ø1-2"
[21:43:11] <CaptHindsight> http://www.ebay.com/itm/New-Updated-3040c-CNC-ENGRAVER-4-AXIS-Routing-Engraving-Drilling-Carving-Machine-/321282188524
[21:43:29] <bnmorgan> yep, i looked at that exact one today i think.
[21:44:10] <bnmorgan> how much more money and how much time, ballpark, to have that being a decent machine.
[21:44:35] <roycroft> i think a foredom flex-shaft tool would have too much runout to work decently, even with a collet spindle
[21:45:11] <roycroft> i've never measured tir on mine - i should do that some time
[21:45:36] <XXCoder> can always remove and add actual spidle
[21:45:41] <bnmorgan> i've seen several that appear to have stepper motors with belt drives.
[21:45:54] <CaptHindsight> for almost no money they could use ball screws with nuts, but they use ball screw with the ends cut off :(
[21:46:31] <CaptHindsight> what work area do you want?
[21:47:31] <bnmorgan> um. for cyl work, 10" between centers. for flat work, part size is within 4.5x8"
[21:48:01] <bnmorgan> ability to mount multiple wouldn't be horrible but not necessary, would want to mount in a way to allow either to be engraved.
[21:48:20] <bnmorgan> (suppressors and ar type lower receivers)
[21:49:12] <roycroft> "hand touching the cutter is prohibited when using the machine"
[21:49:28] <roycroft> if you intend on touching the cutter while it's running, you'll have to buy something else
[21:49:39] <bnmorgan> yeah. i thought about starting a business contracting out to rewrite engrish instruction manuals and things like ebay ads.
[21:49:43] <roycroft> something to keep in mind
[21:50:19] <jdh> http://www.dapramarking.com/dotpeen/maxim3.htm
[21:51:23] <CaptHindsight> they aren't interested in hiring people to translate
[21:51:24] <bnmorgan> hm. woul dhave to ck to make sure that meets atf reqt.
[21:51:28] <CaptHindsight> that costs money
[21:52:38] <jdh> I've seen lots of dot peened receiver markings
[21:53:02] <bnmorgan> yeah, i'm talking about nfa items like suppressors.
[21:53:23] <jdh> if it is sufficient for receivers, it should be fine for all
[21:54:03] <bnmorgan> side note: commercial websites that do not list prices are pigshit.
[21:54:16] <jdh> yeah, probably means overpriced.
[21:54:32] <jdh> they are simple to get what you want marked though.
[21:58:33] <bnmorgan> http://www.ebay.com/itm/Machine-engraver-CNC-Router-3040-4axis-ballscrew-engraving-Hot-sale-/221561265256?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item3396149c68
[22:01:50] <jdh> I have a slightly larger version
[22:02:19] <bnmorgan> suggestions or problems?
[22:02:35] <jdh> works fine. I skipped ebay and paid a little more at carvingcnc.com
[22:03:55] <bnmorgan> any actual difference ?
[22:04:32] <jdh> dunno, I didn't try the others.
[22:04:57] <bnmorgan> hrm. i like the usb versions, but not want ot be stuck with m3
[22:05:40] <bnmorgan> will linuxcnc tonrol them at all?
[22:05:44] <bnmorgan> wow. control too
[22:06:23] <elmo40> bnmorgan: commercial websites such as what? The manufacturer? Or a reseller?
[22:06:38] <bnmorgan> commercial sites like the dapramarking site.
[22:06:40] <elmo40> Manufacturers won't list prices because that screws their distributors
[22:06:50] <elmo40> I don't know that site. send me a link
[22:07:18] <bnmorgan> ahh, jdh posted it just before you joined. [21:31] <jdh>
http://www.dapramarking.com/dotpeen/maxim3.htm
[22:08:42] <elmo40> those guys are resellers. they don't manufacture the items. they are at the whim of the manu for pricing.
[22:08:55] <zeeshan> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PtuQcJ4prHE
[22:08:56] <zeeshan> .25 doc
[22:08:58] <zeeshan> video
[22:09:02] <elmo40> companies like this are not interested in displaying, and maintaining, prices on their websites
[22:09:44] <bnmorgan> just hate that i have to waste my time and theirs just to ask for price.
[22:10:10] <zeeshan> i think i need a different insert
[22:10:16] <zeeshan> this is a "finishing" insert
[22:10:17] <zeeshan> :p
[22:10:23] <zeeshan> prolly why the chips arent breaking
[22:10:27] <elmo40> exactly
[22:10:27] <zeeshan> i tried feeding at 5.8 ipm too
[22:10:32] <zeeshan> still no chip breakage
[22:10:33] <elmo40> I was gonna ask what the rad on the tip was
[22:10:38] <zeeshan> 0.016
[22:10:40] <bnmorgan> aluminum?
[22:10:46] <elmo40> more feed, too. that will help break the chip
[22:10:52] <zeeshan> yes
[22:10:53] <elmo40> 16??? damn. that is tiny!
[22:11:06] <zeeshan> i went from 1.4 ipm to 5.8 made to differnt to the chip
[22:11:48] <elmo40> now try that with a ferrous metal ;-)
[22:11:52] <zeeshan> *made no difference i mean
[22:12:00] <zeeshan> elmo i tried .100 doc with 304 stainless
[22:12:05] <zeeshan> it cuts, but chatters
[22:12:10] <zeeshan> on 2.5" piece
[22:12:11] <elmo40> same tiny tip?
[22:12:13] <zeeshan> yea
[22:12:21] <zeeshan> it stop chattering at .030" doc
[22:12:27] <zeeshan> so something is flexing somewhere :P
[22:12:35] <elmo40> just a little
[22:12:36] <elmo40> :-P
[22:12:47] <zeeshan> i didnt make a video of it
[22:12:52] <zeeshan> cause the chips are stupid hot
[22:12:54] <zeeshan> and they were burning me
[22:13:02] <zeeshan> i need to make a cover for the lathe
[22:13:51] <elmo40> that was my next point
[22:14:13] <elmo40> if that piece flew out at that RPM you will be in some serious hurt...
[22:14:26] <zeeshan> meh
[22:14:31] <zeeshan> ive manually machined worse stuff
[22:14:32] <roycroft> oh man
[22:14:37] <roycroft> i was just getting ready to make the popcorn
[22:14:42] <roycroft> and now the film has been cancelled
[22:14:46] <elmo40> lol
[22:14:51] <zeeshan> solarmovie.is?
[22:14:51] <zeeshan> :D
[22:15:01] <zeeshan> elmo40 the only thing ive had fly out ever
[22:15:16] <zeeshan> is stainless 0.120 wall tube
[22:15:16] <zeeshan> 3"
[22:15:25] <zeeshan> i was clamping from the outside
[22:15:28] <zeeshan> instead of from the inside..
[22:15:36] <zeeshan> and it was sticking out 12"
[22:15:36] <zeeshan> haha
[22:15:52] <zeeshan> and doing a facing cut :p
[22:16:17] <zeeshan> was a bad idea
[22:18:30] <Tom_itx> face cut from right to left
[22:18:44] <zeeshan> left to right
[22:18:48] <Tom_itx> no
[22:18:55] <Tom_itx> the chips will fly to the back if you do
[22:19:21] <zeeshan> that makes sense :D
[22:19:37] <zeeshan> no more machining for tonight
[22:19:44] <zeeshan> i already cleaned the lathe
[22:19:54] <Tom_itx> i meant on a mill
[22:19:54] <zeeshan> thsoe damn al chips were a pain ;p
[22:20:41] <Tom_itx> you're pretty much stuck with birds nest on a lathe
[22:21:04] <Tom_itx> unless you interrupt the cut
[22:22:04] <zeeshan> this chip breaker seems to work well only at .100 - .125 doc
[22:22:14] <zeeshan> all the way down to 0.020
[22:22:18] <zeeshan> anything less or more
[22:22:21] <zeeshan> its no good
[22:22:32] <zeeshan> i guess thats why they have recommendations on inserts!
[22:23:42] <zeeshan> here we go
[22:23:55] <zeeshan> recommending doc = 0.020 to 0.080
[22:24:06] <zeeshan> feedrate = 0.004 to 0.008
[22:24:12] <zeeshan> sfm 430 to 890
[22:24:13] <zeeshan> no wonder
[22:28:05] <zeeshan> sandvik: As a general rule of thumb, the depth of cut should be greater than or equal to 2/3 of the nose radius, or 1/2 of the nose radius in the feed direction.
[22:30:00] <elmo40> that is to create a decent finish and make nice chips
[22:31:12] <elmo40> hence why the finishing inserts have a tiny radius. less feed, less peaks&valleys, smoother finish.
[22:31:58] <elmo40> we used a lot of round inserts at my last place. huge cuts. huge parts. high feed rates. chips were as thick as a pencil!
[22:32:11] <zeeshan> haha
[22:32:17] <zeeshan> the round insert is almost a form tool
[22:37:09] <zeeshan> connor
[22:37:12] <zeeshan> according to chai
[22:37:16] <zeeshan> the double ball nut fits the same screw.
[22:37:29] <zeeshan> $89 usd shipped
[22:37:37] <zeeshan> 1xdoublenut 1605, 1xdoublenut 2505
[22:38:56] <elmo40> the octagon inserts were introduced to us about a week before I left. I tried one. man, if only I had them in the beginning! they chewed material so fast I couldn't take a coffee break on long cuts anymore!
[22:40:07] <Connor> zeeshan: Yea. I know they'll fit.. but.. I was a bit concerned about them being "fitted" to your screw with proper preload..
[22:40:29] <zeeshan> i dont understand
[22:40:34] <zeeshan> you think the pitch might be different?
[22:40:46] <zeeshan> arent those adjustable?
[22:40:51] <Connor> No.. But every screw could have lead error.
[22:41:03] <zeeshan> every screw does have lead error!
[22:41:16] <zeeshan> that means the preload will vary on the screw?
[22:41:22] <Connor> yup. and they grind those spacers to match your screw.
[22:41:37] <zeeshan> yea but lead error isn't constant throughout the screw
[22:41:43] <zeeshan> it varies
[22:41:59] <zeeshan> rockford will provide an error map with their ball screws
[22:42:02] <zeeshan> so you can compensate
[22:42:22] <zeeshan> worst comes to worst, i will need a new spacer?
[22:42:28] <zeeshan> connor is the preload adjustable?
[22:42:28] <Connor> Yea.
[22:42:36] <zeeshan> from your pics, i wasn't sure how it is adjusted
[22:42:37] <Connor> No. It's not
[22:42:44] <elmo40> they provide a ball screw map of the grind???
[22:42:50] <zeeshan> elmo40 yea
[22:43:20] <elmo40> how do you tell linuxcnc that the compensation needs to change depending on where you are?
[22:43:27] <zeeshan> connor okay now i see what youre saying
[22:43:51] <zeeshan> so worst comes to worst, itll be too big
[22:43:53] <zeeshan> so too much preload
[22:44:00] <zeeshan> or too small, too little preload
[22:44:14] <zeeshan> think its easy to fabricate?
[22:44:18] <Connor> You'll probably be okay.. I just heard he was a bit hesitant to sell the nuts not already pre-adjusted for the screws they were going to be used on.
[22:44:48] <Connor> Yea.. It looks like a casting.. that's be ground.. 2 of them.. Half moons.
[22:44:59] <zeeshan> elmo40: ive heard it can be done
[22:45:03] <zeeshan> i dont know the procedure though
[22:45:34] <Connor> You already order them ?
[22:45:36] <zeeshan> i know the sinumerik seimens controller had ball screw mappin
[22:45:43] <zeeshan> Connor: i just asked him to send an invoice
[22:45:48] <zeeshan> waiting
[22:45:58] <Connor> It'll be a paypal one.
[22:46:17] <zeeshan> http://www.ivdc.com/cnc/ballscrews_100214_01.jpg
[22:46:36] <elmo40> but honestly, how much out can they be? 0.0001" ?
[22:46:36] <zeeshan> i dont really see how that works
[22:46:45] <zeeshan> elmo40: more
[22:47:11] <zeeshan> they only guarantee 0.003" for the rolled screws per foot
[22:47:37] <elmo40> 3 thou????? that is insanely high.
[22:47:47] <zeeshan> yea but in reality rockfords are clsoe to 1 thou
[22:48:01] <zeeshan> its not that big of a deal though since lead error is constant
[22:48:08] <zeeshan> for long periods of time
[22:48:12] <elmo40> wait, 3 per foot?!?!?!?!? even worse than I thought.
[22:48:13] <zeeshan> until they get worn :D
[22:48:40] <roycroft> that's about right for a chinese rolled ball screw reject
[22:48:58] <elmo40> not something that Mazak would be using...
[22:49:30] <elmo40> I'd use it on a pen plotter, not a cnc machine.
[22:49:31] <Connor> Umm.. C7 calls for 0.0019685 per 11.811
[22:50:07] <elmo40> better, but still crappy, imo.
[22:50:53] <Connor> for hobby.. It's the most cost effective option.. C5 and above cost way more $$$
[22:51:13] <elmo40> +/- 50 per 300mm
[22:51:32] <Connor> +/ 50 uM
[22:51:52] <Connor> Unit: um
[22:51:58] <elmo40> yes
[22:51:59] <roycroft> this is a kind of interesting old school engraver:
[22:52:01] <roycroft> http://www.ebay.com/itm/Incredible-CNC-Engraver-/111476688633?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item19f48746f9
[22:52:07] <Valen> you can calibrate it out
[22:52:11] <elmo40> C8 is 100!
[22:52:12] <Valen> in EMC
[22:52:27] <Connor> C10 is 210
[22:52:41] <elmo40> Valen: but what if it is variable? first foot is 2, second foot is 3, third foot is only 1.
[22:52:48] <Connor> C7 is the highest Rolled screw you can get.. C5 and above will be ground.
[22:53:00] <Valen> elmo40: thats fine
[22:53:09] <Valen> there is a screwcomp table
[22:53:25] <Valen> you can put in a correction for every inch
[22:53:41] <Valen> and it'll interpolate between the corrections
[22:54:06] <toastydeath> lead error per revolution can actually be quite high
[22:54:26] <Valen> we just put glass scales on for position measurement ;->
[22:54:43] <toastydeath> second best way of doing it, imho
[22:54:44] <Connor> Or, map it out 1 inch at a time..
[22:54:49] <pcw_home> linuxcncs table allows 256 entries
[22:55:03] <Valen> toastydeath: whats better?
[22:55:12] <elmo40> Valen: you compare glass scale with what, servo or stepper?
[22:55:26] <Valen> no comparison, I actually use that for the servo loop
[22:55:31] <toastydeath> comp tables are best used minimally, since even ballscrews have hysteresis
[22:55:32] <Valen> it *is* the position
[22:55:42] <elmo40> I see
[22:55:46] <toastydeath> the better-than-glass-scales thing is a metrology frame
[22:56:02] <Valen> yeah, but not many mills come with one of those
[22:56:03] <toastydeath> a force-free frame attached kinematically to the table
[22:56:07] <toastydeath> you can make one
[22:56:20] <toastydeath> they correct for issues like table bend and cutting load
[22:56:38] <toastydeath> cuz the frame's not on the table, just attached to it kinematically.
[22:56:45] <Valen> that's not going to be trivial to do well ;->
[22:56:52] <toastydeath> it's not hard
[22:56:54] <elmo40> way too complicated for a home mill ;)
[22:56:58] <Connor> okay. What size stepper motor for a little 4" rotary table... Nema 23 size most likly... but.. how strong..
[22:57:00] <Valen> linky?
[22:57:14] <Connor> http://www.automationtechnologiesinc.com/products-page/nema-23
[22:57:17] <elmo40> Connor: why so small. go larger ;)
[22:57:43] <toastydeath> I've never seen a webpage describing how to build them - the basic idea is the mount principles, not the frame itself
[22:57:44] <Valen> I have never heard anybody say "this stepper has too much holding torque"
[22:57:46] <elmo40> will it cut and spin? or just locate and lock?
[22:58:06] <Connor> It's a worm gear rotary table..
[22:58:14] <Connor> Just need descent torque to turn it.
[22:58:16] <toastydeath> there's a book that describes how to mount things kinematically,
http://www.amazon.com/Exact-Constraint-Machine-Kinematic-Processing/dp/0791800857
[22:58:19] <Connor> and would like some speed.
[22:58:56] <elmo40> you answered your question. high torque + speed = larger motor than a size 23 can give.
[22:59:13] <elmo40> go 34
[23:00:06] <elmo40> min 750oz.in
[23:00:14] <elmo40> I think a 23 can be as high as 250.
[23:00:25] <elmo40> isn't much, when you really think about it.
[23:00:44] <Connor> I have nema 23 570's on my X Y and Z..
[23:00:58] <Connor> Lower inductance is needed..
[23:01:31] <elmo40> double stacked motors?
[23:01:52] <Connor> Yes.
[23:01:57] <Valen> design by guessing specs ;->
[23:02:05] <Valen> pick what you can afford, fit, and drive
[23:03:51] <zeeshan> yay
[23:03:53] <zeeshan> sold my air compressor
[23:03:59] <zeeshan> the small one that was just taking up space
[23:04:22] <roycroft> we both cleared out some space today
[23:04:33] <roycroft> it feels good to have stuff like that go away
[23:06:09] <zeeshan> yea man
[23:06:16] <zeeshan> my bandsaw can sit in its place
[23:06:37] <Connor> I wish Automation Technologies would provide torque curve pdf's for all their steppers
[23:06:54] <zeeshan> connor
[23:07:05] <zeeshan> if you really want to get _proper_ with torque requirement
[23:07:15] <zeeshan> you can look at "Shigley's mechanical engineering"
[23:07:18] <zeeshan> i have a pdf if you want
[23:07:28] <zeeshan> it talks about power requirements for worm gears
[23:07:44] <zeeshan> then combine that with the worst case cuting forces
[23:07:50] <zeeshan> and multiply that number by 2 :P
[23:09:18] <Connor> That's not going to do me much good without having info for the steppers.
[23:09:46] <zeeshan> you can find the torque info from kelings old site
[23:09:59] <Connor> Not all of them have them.
[23:10:14] <Connor> I just found 2 that had the same pdf but different motors.. :(
[23:10:39] <zeeshan> unless youre planning to drive the rotary table at high speed
[23:10:55] <zeeshan> you can probably assume the name plate torque is the torque
[23:11:09] <zeeshan> cause i think for most of their motors based on the pdfs ive seen are prettyu constant upto 500pps
[23:12:25] <zeeshan> anyone know what the variable a_p stands for?
[23:12:33] <zeeshan> i know its depth of cut, but why the a and the p
[23:13:33] <Connor> Hmm.. .9 degree/step
