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[01:19:17] <anarchos2> shoot
[01:19:40] <anarchos2> anyone have gmoccapy.glade from 1.1.5.7?
[01:19:47] <anarchos2> accidently overwrote my backup file :P
[01:47:47] <archivist> anarchos2, should be in
http://git.linuxcnc.org/gitweb?p=linuxcnc.git;a=history;f=share/gmoccapy;hb=HEAD somewhere
[02:06:28] <Deejay> moin
[04:02:28] <anarchos2> archivist: thanks
[04:05:49] <anarchos2> i'm still a little confused as to the correct way to fully use gmoccapy. it works great by just changing DISPLAY = gmoccapy
[04:06:00] <anarchos2> but the wiki talks about all these config files I don't seem to have.
[06:30:00] <jthornton> yea it's Friday
[06:30:03] <Loetmichel> harhar, sometimes i am an asshole... i just thanked the seller for delivering the defective notebook so quick, and said thet the repair was just replugging the display cable and changeing the hdd... only after hitting send it came to me that taht want the nicest move to do ;-)
[06:31:02] <jthornton> I just checked the kiln and the temp was 190F so it was a nice slow cooling for the part
[06:35:30] <archivist> I need a kiln to blue stuff
[06:36:11] <archivist> I just ordered a temperature controller and thermocouple
[06:36:13] <jthornton> I was surprised how hot the outside got when the inside was 1500F
[06:36:37] <jthornton> I need to swap the pottery control for a temperature controller
[06:36:48] <archivist> more insulation needed
[06:37:08] <jthornton> which controller did you order?
[06:41:17] <archivist> an expensive one!
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/400622511718
[06:41:25] <jthornton> Tom_itx, I have 2Gb of data left for the month so when you have a link on the heat treating manual I'll download it
[06:42:20] <jthornton> can you program it?
[06:42:24] <archivist> funny how they claim the manual is in chinese but show a scan in english
[06:43:46] <jthornton> doesn't even look like chinglish
[06:44:24] <archivist> perhaps the paper I will get will be chinglish and I will need to print that scan
[06:46:25] <jthornton> I need one that is good to 1300C
[06:47:35] <archivist> blue is sub 400 deg c so it is ok for clock hand blue at about 340 ish
[06:50:15] <archivist> at the old clockworks we used a cooker hotplate with an added sheet of brass covered in filings, and stood there watching the item
[06:51:56] <archivist> my kind of bueing
http://www.collection.archivist.info/archive/DJCPD/PD/2008/2008_10_07_Gear_cutting_examples/p1010060.jpg
[06:54:40] <jthornton> http://www.ebay.com/itm/PID-DIGITAL-TEMPERATURE-CONTROLLER-KIT-SSR-OUTPUT-/321486037304?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item4ada0fa138
[06:55:07] <jthornton> does that prevent rust from forming?
[06:55:37] <archivist> it helps a lot
[06:56:36] <archivist> not perfect a rust preventer but looks good too
[06:57:01] <jthornton> I need a small oven like in the ebay listing
[06:57:13] <archivist> that image was my clockmakers 1st year exam piece
[06:59:54] <archivist> I found this one earlier
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/181503640889
[07:00:52] <jthornton> that's a pretty small one but a good price... oh that is in pounds
[07:01:33] <archivist> and it is 980 deg c max I found
http://www.electrickilns.co.uk/mini.htm
[07:05:16] <SpeedEvil> jthornton: 1300C - for what?
[07:05:38] <jthornton> that's the max temperature of the kiln
[07:08:43] <jthornton> 2350F actually is the max temperature of the kiln
[07:10:02] <Tom_itx> JT-Shop, i'll get that here shortly...
[07:10:19] <SpeedEvil> jthornton: what're you wanting it for?
[07:11:22] <SpeedEvil> I sort-of-wish I had a better kiln.
[07:12:21] <jthornton> to replace the kiln controller that works in cones
[07:12:57] <SpeedEvil> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aluminium_oxynitride
[07:13:02] <SpeedEvil> ah
[07:15:06] <SpeedEvil> Fun material - but you need ~2000C to make it
[07:32:28] <Jymmm> One -2000C ice bitch coming up... "Your cooking sucks, your mother can never visit, and you're lousy in bed"
[07:32:43] <Jymmm> oh, and I did your sister AND mother too!
[07:33:03] <Jymmm> That should be good for -3000C =)
[07:40:26] <ssi_> jthornton: I have a kiln lying around that I've been wanting to put a controller on
[07:41:58] <jthornton> I just bought a controller off of flea bay
[07:42:55] <jthornton> http://www.ebay.com/itm/KILN-OVEN-PID-TEMPERATURE-CONTROLLER-KIT-SSR-OUTPUT-/321486934091?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item4ada1d504b
[07:46:54] <ssi> yea that'd probabyl be the easiest way to go
[07:47:28] <CaptHindsight> Aluminium oxynitride, what century is this?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Star_Trek_materials#Transparent_aluminum
[07:58:43] <skunkworks> kinda neat I guess...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bp0k-O1_KP8
[07:59:30] <skunkworks> but if you can't program feeds correctly - you probably shouldn't have a cnc...
[08:01:32] <Jymmm> Isn't the whole purpos of cnc is so you don't have to be cranking the bp handles?! lol
[08:07:22] <CaptHindsight> the could market this as a fitness device, crank, pedal, curl, run to interact with the cnc
[08:07:33] <Jymmm> lol
[08:15:19] <_methods> yes free workouts here at my shop
[08:15:30] <_methods> i'll supply you with 25lb parts to lift all day
[08:15:35] <_methods> and handles to turn lol
[08:16:13] <_methods> man we've been sitting on a fitness craze all this time
[08:16:23] <_methods> must capitalize on this
[08:18:56] <archivist> skunkworks, useful for testing a program
[08:22:14] <_methods> singleblock++
[08:27:59] <skunkworks> sure - I could see it.
[08:41:29] <cradek> weird to see him turning the wheel the wrong way on that lathe program
[08:45:03] <JT-Shop> Tom_itx, it passed the file test on the welded area
[09:14:23] <veremit> does anyone here know where the firmware config files live? What firmware should I use for a 5i20 with a 7i37 and 7i33 attached?!
[09:21:54] <pcw_home> probably svst4_8
[09:23:34] <pcw_home> 5i20 firmware should be in /lib/firmware/hm2/5i20
[09:24:25] <veremit> ah firmware/hm2 ..
[09:24:35] <veremit> thanks
[10:48:34] <PetefromTn_> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RXJKdh1KZ0w&feature=youtu.be Can this run LInuxCNC?
[10:52:10] <archivist> how did that snake oil salesman keep a straight face
[10:52:16] <stt_michaelz> pcw_home .. I tried to use the SVST4_* firmware.. but its not in the 5i20 package I have available here .. any thoughts?!
[10:52:28] <PetefromTn_> I dunno man it must have been extremely difficult LOL\
[10:52:50] <stt_michaelz> obviously for my application .. 8 servos and 2 servos (SVST2* and SVST8*) aren't appropriate either :(
[10:53:42] <stt_michaelz> am I going to have to roll my own version for the 5i20 card!?
[10:54:51] <PetefromTn_> Whats a differential girdle spring on the upend of the grammeters? HEHEhe
[11:03:43] <stt_michaelz> next question is... why doesn't pncconf detect my 5i20 card?!
[11:09:52] <cnc123> Hello, I just recieved my Laser Engraver I bought off Amazon :
[11:09:54] <cnc123> http://tinyurl.com/k9vuvls
[11:10:06] <cnc123> The manuel calls it a K40
[11:10:24] <cnc123> I've downloaded the most recent LinuxCNC iso
[11:10:29] <cnc123> and put it on a usb drive
[11:10:32] <pcw_home> if any 5I20 firmware is there svst4_8 firmware should be there
[11:10:49] <cnc123> I've booted it, and not I dont' know what to do :)
[11:11:18] <CaptHindsight> cnc123: what did you want to do with it?
[11:11:56] <CaptHindsight> cnc123: do you want to control the K40 with it?
[11:11:58] <cnc123> I've opened LinuxCNC, and I dont' knwo what to do. I don't know if it's detecting the device
[11:12:05] <cnc123> CaptHindsight: yes
[11:12:18] <cnc123> I just want to burn an image onto a peace of wood for now
[11:12:21] <cnc123> just to see it work
[11:12:38] <cnc123> There is a play button, but it's greyed out.
[11:13:13] <cnc123> I went into the setup for LinuxCNC, but I don't really know what to input for the options
[11:13:52] <cnc123> It's in my garage and I dont' have internet on that computer, so I've been running in and out of my house, googleing something and then running back out and trying it.
[11:14:04] <cnc123> I figured I ask here for direction.
[11:14:44] <CaptHindsight> cnc123: it doesn't quite work like that, it's not like installing a word processor, plugging in the USB cable to the printer and pressing Print
[11:15:09] <cnc123> Ok, well... then what do I do?
[11:15:28] <CaptHindsight> cnc123: the software you got with the laser might work that way
[11:16:21] <cnc123> I was hoping not to use Windows XP. The only reason I bought it was because I've read that it should work with Linux.
[11:17:15] <CaptHindsight> USB Port to Computer.MoshiDraw Software Included.
[11:17:32] <CaptHindsight> MoshiDraw, this machine can work well with multiple graphic formats including EMF/JPG/PLT/WMF.
[11:18:10] <CaptHindsight> cnc123: do you have a link to the actual manufacturer of the laser engraver?
[11:18:44] <cnc123> so what can I do with LinuxCNC? This video says it's running LinuxCNC with the K40:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WEVeHWpXeF4
[11:18:49] <CaptHindsight> cnc123: does you laser engraver have a parallel port (LPT)?
[11:19:00] <cnc123> CaptHindsight: not on the outside
[11:19:04] <cnc123> maybe inside
[11:20:25] <CaptHindsight> cnc123:
http://www.cnc-arena.com/en/forum/linuxcnc-laser-control-why-you-dont-need-dsp--186700.html
[11:22:48] <CaptHindsight> cnc123: never mind that link, he just used some of the parts from the K40
[11:23:08] <cnc123> CaptHindsight: yeah, I read that earlier. Didn't really help :)
[11:23:25] <cnc123> CaptHindsight: what do you use LinuxCNC for?
[11:26:11] <CaptHindsight> cnc123: Linuxcnc doesn't work over usb, it's also designed to control the motor drivers in your laser engraver vs send files to the engravers control board
[11:26:30] <cnc123> CaptHindsight: well, I wish I knew that before I bought this.
[11:26:41] <CaptHindsight> cnc123: nothing more is certain without specs
[11:26:54] <cnc123> well, I'll look around for another option and then return it if I can't get it working
[11:26:58] <cnc123> that's for the help.
[11:27:33] <CaptHindsight> if you're handy you might be able to replace the current controller with hardware that Linuxcnc supports
[11:27:59] <cnc123> Yeah, I don't want to start messing with that, because then I can't return it if I screw something up.
[11:28:02] <CaptHindsight> where is the parallel port the Amamzon page mentions?
[11:28:40] <cnc123> I was hoping this would be easy. If I was toing to get into the hardware part of it I would follow tutorials on building one from scratch
[11:28:43] <cnc123> :)
[11:29:22] <CaptHindsight> I'm just taking a wild guess but if it has a parallel port that has Step and Direction inputs and laser PWM then it might be less of a project
[11:30:33] <CaptHindsight> cnc123: is there a detailed data sheet somewhere for your engraver?
[11:31:04] <cnc123> I came across one while googling easlier
[11:31:11] <cnc123> so it's online somewhere
[11:38:18] <CaptHindsight> the poster of those videos doesn't explain what he did
[11:41:23] <stt_michaelz> pcw_home .. I can assure you I can't see it .. and LinuxCNC fails when I specify it :) I do only have the 5i20 ubuntu package installed .. version 0.8.13.g3e60a9b
[11:42:05] <pcw_home> what is in /lib/firmware/hm2/5i20?
[11:46:19] <stt_michaelz> sec let me log irc on the box ..
[11:47:04] <linuxcnc> ah nice .. lol
[11:47:15] <linuxcnc> <= stT_michael
[11:48:06] <cradek> hostmot2-firmware-5i20:
http://pastie.org/9513301
[11:48:20] <linuxcnc> ok so I see sv12*, svst2_* svst8_* svtp6_* and tpen6_
[11:48:27] <cradek> no
[11:48:27] <linuxcnc> ah hold on .. pastebin shortly ..
[11:48:29] <cradek> they are uppercase
[11:48:35] <linuxcnc> uppser, yes, sorry my bad
[11:49:43] <linuxcnc> http://pastebin.com/9YdPv4DS
[11:50:32] <linuxcnc> hmm I don't see any SVST4 there either ...
[11:50:38] <pcw_home> ok so svst8_4 should be fine
[11:50:52] <pcw_home> or sv12
[11:50:55] <linuxcnc> no .. thats too many servos .. I need the IOs for IOs in the 7i37 cards
[11:51:07] <pcw_home> sv12 is fine
[11:51:12] <linuxcnc> it is?
[11:51:17] <pcw_home> yep
[11:51:47] <linuxcnc> And my card should be auto-detected in pncconf once I've opened LinuxCNC with that config?
[11:52:32] <pcw_home> not sure about pncconf but the sample hm2-servo config should run
[11:52:53] <linuxcnc> yes I've copied a .. hold on ..
[11:53:14] <pcw_home> I think pncconf should give you some firmware choices
[11:53:33] <linuxcnc> it's so far only come up wth the 5i25 default
[11:54:49] <pcw_home> well than use the hm2-servo demo as a starting point
[11:55:16] <linuxcnc> ok so I've misinterpreted the firmware naming convention :)
[12:22:07] <pcw_home> sv=servo st=stepper so SV12 is a 12 axis servo only config
[12:22:08] <pcw_home> svst8_4 is a 8 axis servo+4 axis stepper config
[12:25:08] <linuxcnc> but presumably you can override the 'extras' and they default to IOs ..
[12:25:27] <linuxcnc> the crash dump I just caused seems to suggest this :)
[12:55:31] <PCW_> linuxcnc: man hostmot2
[13:06:57] <stt_michaelz> yeah had a quick look at that earlier .. the documentation isn't explicit .. but I s'pose there's enough there to work stuff out :)
[13:07:18] <stt_michaelz> short answer is there aren't any short cuts ... its just gonna take time to figure it out
[13:11:27] <Tom_itx> but rewarding
[13:11:42] <stt_michaelz> its for a customer .. so I don't see the benefits :)
[13:11:51] <stt_michaelz> although it might find uses elsewhere
[13:13:42] <stt_michaelz> given we already have 2x HAAS 3-axis CNC mills and 1x Hurco CNC mill, one vintage double-head CNC lathe and a Ecoca CNC in the workshop ....
[13:15:32] <stt_michaelz> A friend is converting an old bridgeport to 5-axis though .. so thats where the "fun" really begins :)
[15:29:18] <anarchos2_> anyone know which onscreen keyboard package needs to be installed for use with gmoccapy?
[16:12:13] <Deejay> gn8
[18:56:16] <anarchos2_> got my belt drive kit today
[18:56:22] <anarchos2_> works pretty good it seems!
[18:57:08] <anarchos2_> had some trouble getting on of the pulleys onto the shaft, but with a bit of persuasion with a dead blow, and flipping it around and driving it on backwards to loosen things up, it finally went on
[18:59:35] <Tom_itx> hope you didn't knock something else out driving that pulley on the shaft
[19:02:00] <anarchos2_> hopefully not, it required quite a bit of bashing :P
[19:02:46] <Tom_itx> a bit of polishing on the shaft may have been a better choice
[19:03:41] <anarchos2_> yes
[19:03:58] <anarchos2_> i lack the tools/supplies for that
[19:04:06] <anarchos2_> i do have a rubber mallet, though :P
[19:10:30] <CaptHindsight> anarchos2_: have a link to the kit? What size belt drive?
[19:16:36] <anarchos2_> http://www.mbbilici.com/?p=85
[19:16:54] <anarchos2_> 5m355, which i believe is 5mm x 355mm
[19:17:17] <anarchos2_> i just emailed the guy and offered him less money than what he has them for on the site, and he accepted :)
[19:18:01] <anarchos2_> so basically i got it for $90 including shipping (and no tax or anything) versus $155 + ship + possibly duty from littlemachineshop.com
[19:19:32] <Tom_itx> those aren't timing belts are they?
[19:20:28] <anarchos2_> no it's a vbelt
[19:20:39] <Tom_itx> hope you got extra belts
[19:21:38] <anarchos2_> i did not but am actually looking for a good place to order some as we speak
[19:21:50] <Tom_itx> sewing machine shops
[19:22:10] <anarchos2_> would all 5m355 belts be about the same?
[19:22:38] <anarchos2_> there's lots of Gates brand ones out there for sale, the Polymax ones all seem to be from over seas :P
[19:28:55] <roycroft> so, folks, if i'm going to buy some ball screws, is there a good source of information about the various manufacturers, comparing them?
[19:29:32] <roycroft> the stuff being peddled on ebay tends not to have a lot of good specifications, other than length and mounting
[19:29:52] <roycroft> notable things like precision and backlash are sorely missing
[19:30:55] <Tom_itx> rolled vs ground
[19:31:08] <roycroft> yes, and they generally don't specify that
[19:31:30] <Tom_itx> if it's cheap it's likely rolled
[19:34:20] <roycroft> here's a typical example of what i'm finding:
[19:34:23] <roycroft> http://tinyurl.com/me3olvn
[19:34:49] <roycroft> i don't know if that's considered cheap or not
[19:35:03] <roycroft> ~US$200 shipped for a 25mmx1400mm ball screw
[19:35:18] <Tom_itx> what's it going on?
[19:35:22] <roycroft> a cnc router
[19:35:28] <Tom_itx> that's a fairly good size ballscrew
[19:35:33] <Tom_itx> 1"
[19:35:33] <roycroft> i want to be able to hold 0.005"
[19:35:37] <roycroft> yes
[19:35:55] <roycroft> i'd like to be able to move fast
[19:35:56] <Tom_itx> i don't see why any ballscrew couldn't do that
[19:36:44] <roycroft> so that particular one is described as "anti-backlash"
[19:37:04] <roycroft> however, someone here (i forget who) said that i need a second nut to have zero backlash
[19:37:07] <Tom_itx> 55" long?
[19:37:15] <roycroft> on an acme screw that's definitely the case
[19:37:21] <roycroft> yes, about that
[19:38:08] <roycroft> i could use a shorter one
[19:38:31] <roycroft> i want total travel to be 3' x, 2' y, and 6" z
[19:38:49] <roycroft> i'm just using that one as an example - i can order any length from that seller
[19:39:58] <roycroft> now if i really do need a second nut for zero backlash i'll have to subtract the length of that nut + whatever mounting mechanism i use from the total travel length
[19:40:15] <Tom_itx> haven't used ballscrews yet myself
[19:40:25] <roycroft> i've used machines with ball screws
[19:40:30] <roycroft> but i've never built one
[19:40:31] <Tom_itx> well i have too
[19:40:33] <Tom_itx> same
[19:40:43] <roycroft> i don't want to buy more than i need
[19:40:44] <Tom_itx> 3" ballscrews
[19:40:46] <roycroft> but i want to buy enough
[19:41:03] <MrHindsight> subtract the length of the carriage that you mount the nut to as well
[19:42:22] <MrHindsight> how you mount the carriage or table on that axis will also have an effect on the range of travel
[19:43:07] <MrHindsight> you'll have some linear bearings as well, what will determine the range of travel on the bearings?
[19:44:19] <roycroft> since the ball screws are much longer than the mounts i figure that the travel range of the screws will be the determinant
[19:45:10] <roycroft> i.e. i mount the x axis nut in the middle of the gantry, and the x rails will be long enough for the nut to travel its full length
[19:45:43] <roycroft> my thought is that i should get the ball screws first, and design the rest of the machine around them
[19:46:04] <roycroft> i have zero interest in remachining the ball screws if they are not the correct length
[19:46:20] <roycroft> so designing around them makes sense to me
[19:46:29] <Tom_itx> that's likely what i'd do if i were starting a new build
[19:46:44] <Tom_itx> costs too much to order custom ballscrews
[19:46:48] <roycroft> if i were retrofitting ball screws to, say, a vertical mill, that would be a different story
[19:46:59] <roycroft> but i'm designing/building this machine from scratch
[19:47:31] <roycroft> it's going to be a moving gantry router, btw
[19:47:48] <roycroft> i pondered briefly a moving table machine, but i just don't have the room for that
[19:48:53] <MrHindsight> http://www.pbclinear.com/SIMO-Series-Driven-Systems---Lead-Screw click the Specifications tab, you can see an example of calculating the lengths in an linear screw actuator/positioner
[19:49:20] <roycroft> thanks
[19:50:16] <ssi> roycroft: you have to work pretty hard to build a machine that can't hold 0.005"
[19:50:53] <roycroft> if the screws have 0.003" backlash that's over half my slop right there
[19:51:45] <roycroft> if i used acme screws with single nuts i'd probably have 8-10 thousandths right there
[19:52:05] <anarchos2_> i wonder if i walked into one of the machine shops around here (one's that make bike parts and etc) if they'd sell me some metal
[19:52:20] <anarchos2_> buying metal in small quantities seems expensive as hell
[19:52:38] <Tom_itx> if they had scraps they might
[19:52:40] <roycroft> i'm fortunate to have a couple local metal suppliers
[19:52:55] <roycroft> they sell at pretty much the same price, no matter the quantity
[19:53:01] <roycroft> they do charge for cuts, though
[19:53:08] <anarchos2_> i'm fortunate that i live in a ski resort but unfortunate that there's no where to buy stuff, except online :P
[19:53:10] <roycroft> although they'll cut a 20' length of steel in half for no charge
[19:53:35] <anarchos2_> there's a little shitty very expensive hardware store, but that's it.
[19:53:39] <roycroft> and they have nice scrap bins, where they sell by the pound
[19:53:50] <anarchos2_> aye, sounds nice.
[19:53:51] <ssi> roycroft: backlash doesn't necessarily contribute to inaccuracy
[19:54:04] <roycroft> no, but it's a hassle to compensate for it
[19:54:06] <ssi> ie I can make parts to 0.001" on a bridgeport with 0.060" backlash
[19:54:12] <roycroft> i'd rather avoid that hassle
[19:54:21] <roycroft> sure, so can i, manually, and easily
[19:54:51] <roycroft> i don't want a cnc machine to always travel in one direction though
[19:55:03] <roycroft> perhaps it's easier to compensate for backlash than i think it is
[19:55:05] <anarchos2_> how much do they charge for cuts? i was thinking of buying a 4"x4" piece of aluminum but a couple feet long (for if/when i try to make a few parts to sell), but i'd need to cut them down into 4x4x3" blocks
[19:55:07] <ssi> anyway, point is that the cheap rolled ballscrews are plenty good enough for a machine that holds 0.001"
[19:55:20] <anarchos2_> probably easier to pay someone to do that than buy some sort of metal bandsaw
[19:55:22] <roycroft> that's what i'm trying to get a snes of, ssi
[19:55:41] <roycroft> quite a bit anarchos2_
[19:55:45] <roycroft> like $3/cut or so
[19:55:53] <anarchos2_> wow
[19:56:00] <roycroft> i only get custom cuts when i buy expensive metals like brass or ss
[19:56:16] <roycroft> anything else, i'll just get a 10' length even if i only need 6"
[19:56:23] <roycroft> it's a good way to build up inventory :)
[19:57:24] <roycroft> i do have a 7x12 bandsaw, though
[19:57:34] <anarchos2_> i have no room for that :P
[19:57:44] <roycroft> i have no room for my new router
[19:57:47] <anarchos2_> my workshop is 7.5x5 feet :P
[19:57:57] <roycroft> finding somewhere for it to live may be the biggest challenge of the build
[19:58:01] <anarchos2_> about 50% of that is taken up by my work bench
[19:58:26] <roycroft> you need to build an extension
[19:58:31] <roycroft> bump your shop out a bit
[19:58:38] <roycroft> or up
[19:58:39] <anarchos2_> i rent :P
[19:58:48] <roycroft> outbuilding on skids
[19:58:54] <anarchos2_> lol
[19:59:10] <roycroft> that ski resort land is about $1000/ft^2, though
[19:59:18] <roycroft> so you probably don't have a lot of property
[20:00:06] <anarchos2_> the house is built into a cliff, so not a lot of land
[20:00:09] <roycroft> i figure that to get 2x3' travel on my router i'll need a footprint of 3x5' or so
[20:00:16] <roycroft> oh
[20:00:22] <roycroft> so get an air chisel
[20:00:24] <anarchos2_> convert the driveway into a garage would be my best bet (if i owned the house
[20:00:24] <roycroft> and get busy
[20:00:25] <roycroft> :)
[20:00:44] <anarchos2_> dynamite
[20:00:48] <anarchos2_> much better option
[20:00:54] <roycroft> or you can design and build a tunnel boring machine
[20:01:06] <roycroft> that would be hewaps of fun
[20:01:09] <roycroft> heaps
[20:01:12] <roycroft> but a serious distraction
[20:01:39] <Tom_itx> just don't roll outta bed on the wrong side
[20:02:09] <roycroft> chicken wire will help with that
[20:02:12] <anarchos2_> onlinemetals.com charges $6 per cut :/
[20:02:54] <roycroft> well
[20:03:01] <roycroft> you live in a hoity-toity town
[20:03:09] <roycroft> you can charge top dollar for the parts you make
[20:03:37] <MrHindsight> are you near one of these?
http://metalsupermarkets.com/store-finder/
[20:03:44] <roycroft> just add in the $6 cut as a snob surcharge
[20:05:07] <anarchos2_> MrHindsight, ~2 hours is the closest one
[20:06:49] <anarchos2_> ooh i have an idea. triton delivers daily to my work
[20:07:04] <anarchos2_> i call them up, order on my credit card and have them deliver on the same truck
[20:07:21] <anarchos2_> talk to the parts guys, bribe them with beer to give me a call when my metal gets there
[20:07:25] <MrHindsight> you can save 20-50% of the online price by ordering direct from the local metalsupermarkets stores
[20:46:32] <anarchos2__> huh, my aliexpress ordered was cancelled or something. it says "closed" and "no shipment"
[20:59:30] <XXCoder> anarchos2__: got money back?
[21:03:19] <anarchos2__> XXCoder, it appears they didn't even charge my card
[21:03:31] <XXCoder> oldd
[21:03:35] <XXCoder> odd
[21:03:36] <Tom_itx> they just wanted your cc info
[21:03:57] <XXCoder> they dont get it
[21:06:51] <anarchos2__> or maybe they did...
[21:07:25] <anarchos2__> it's hard to tell since there's no name on the charge yet (that always takes a couple days) and it was in USD and my cards in CAD
[21:07:37] <anarchos2__> so it's a "random" amount
[21:08:22] <XXCoder> do a conversion to cad and klook for close numbers
[21:09:39] <roycroft> so for this router project of mine, would 16mm ball screws suffice?
[21:09:48] <roycroft> i found a nice set
[21:10:01] <anarchos2__> XXCoder, it was only for $~8 and i have a lot of charges for $8 and change :P
[21:10:11] <anarchos2__> coffee and whatnot :P
[21:10:17] <Tom_itx> roycroft, they should do just fine
[21:10:21] <roycroft> http://tinyurl.com/m325u39
[21:10:25] <XXCoder> roycroft: what size router? but yeah would think so I guess
[21:10:26] <roycroft> and that's a very good price
[21:10:27] <anarchos2__> but looking at the time stamp of my order vs charge on my card, it seems I was charged
[21:10:46] <XXCoder> whoa!
[21:10:50] <roycroft> the set are 350/950/1150mm
[21:10:51] <XXCoder> yeah good price
[21:11:01] <XXCoder> sorely tempted to go buy it too
[21:11:07] <roycroft> US$159 delivered
[21:11:17] <Tom_itx> you'll need ends etc
[21:11:28] <roycroft> it comes with them
[21:11:32] <anarchos2__> can you get ballscrews that are strong enough to not twist over 8'?
[21:11:33] <roycroft> it comes with nuts and ends
[21:11:44] <anarchos2__> if i build a router table it's gonna be a 4x8'er
[21:11:54] <roycroft> 30mm ball screws perhaps?
[21:12:13] <roycroft> the answer, of course, is yes, you can
[21:12:15] <toastyde2th> I've worked on machines with 100mm ballscrews, so I know they exist
[21:12:19] <anarchos2__> heh
[21:12:23] <toastyde2th> not cheap
[21:12:23] <roycroft> the next question is can you afford them?
[21:12:32] <XXCoder> toast largest I ever saw was 2 inch
[21:12:35] <anarchos2__> also the question is, does europe have a standard plywood size, like 4x8?
[21:12:44] <XXCoder> I assume 2 inches but realluy could be 3 inch
[21:12:54] <toastyde2th> it's very uncommon to see large ballscrews, but they exist
[21:13:00] <toastyde2th> i've seen acme screws 6" in diameter
[21:13:01] <XXCoder> oh 100mm is even larger!
[21:13:07] <XXCoder> wow.
[21:13:09] <toastyde2th> yeah, 4"
[21:13:15] <roycroft> baltic birch plywood is 1525mmx1525mm
[21:13:16] <Tom_itx> roycroft doesn't come with support blocks
[21:13:19] <XXCoder> did incorrect conversion
[21:13:46] <XXCoder> 25mm to inch roughly good to remember
[21:13:50] <roycroft> i assumed that was the standard european size
[21:14:10] <XXCoder> sigh I wanna work on my cnc but so busy
[21:14:23] <XXCoder> ironically busy working on cnc macgine. at work.
[21:14:24] <anarchos2__> apparently the euros use 125x250cm ply mostly
[21:14:37] <roycroft> what support blocks?
[21:14:47] <roycroft> it comes with the nuts and with the end blocks
[21:14:52] <roycroft> what else do you need?
[21:15:31] <roycroft> however you connect to your motor you will have to custom fabricate a holder
[21:15:34] <Tom_itx> i didn't see that it said endblocks
[21:15:34] <XXCoder> hmm the screw, the nuts, the blocks at ends to hold screw in place
[21:15:46] <XXCoder> tom yeah i dont see it either
[21:15:58] <roycroft> it says "+ball nut+end"
[21:16:03] <Tom_itx> says the end is machined
[21:16:10] <Tom_itx> round for a collar
[21:16:16] <Tom_itx> not endblocks
[21:16:17] <roycroft> but even if it doesn't come with the end blocks, they're not hard to make
[21:16:24] <Tom_itx> agreed
[21:16:48] <roycroft> an hour or so on a vertical mill and bob's your uncle
[21:16:49] <XXCoder> heh still havent figured how to make holder for nut to gantry and stuff
[21:17:02] <roycroft> i'm going to buy the ball screws
[21:17:05] <anarchos2__> my package went from supposidly being delivered today to "delivery estimate unavailable" back to being delivered today...but it's 7pm
[21:17:05] <roycroft> and design around them
[21:17:11] <anarchos2__> i think they're lying to me.. :P
[21:17:17] * roycroft is almost ready to pull the trigger on that set
[21:17:21] <XXCoder> assuming one owns said mill
[21:17:32] <XXCoder> roycroft: go for it
[21:17:33] <roycroft> the price is pretty damn good
[21:17:43] <XXCoder> I paid more than double for less
[21:17:59] <roycroft> for a router i don't think i can really go wrong
[21:18:11] <XXCoder> just clean out bearings
[21:18:16] <XXCoder> I had to fix mine
[21:18:16] <roycroft> if it were for a knee mill and i wanted to hold 0.0005" perhaps not
[21:18:25] <Tom_itx> i've half a notion to get a set myself
[21:18:35] <roycroft> but i'm only looking for an order of magnitude less
[21:18:48] <roycroft> well it's a good thing there are more than 10 available
[21:19:01] <roycroft> since i seem to have several folks interested now :)
[21:19:44] <Tom_itx> roughly 13" 37" and 45"
[21:19:45] <anarchos2__> heh
[21:19:59] <anarchos2__> what kind of table are you going to make?
[21:20:06] <Tom_itx> what's the screw pitch?
[21:20:08] <anarchos2__> like...extrusion?
[21:21:04] <roycroft> 1610 is 16mm diameter, 10mm lead, i think
[21:21:15] <roycroft> oh wait
[21:21:19] <roycroft> those are 1605
[21:21:22] <roycroft> so 5mm
[21:21:23] <Tom_itx> those are 1605
[21:21:30] <Tom_itx> 5mm per turn?
[21:21:34] <roycroft> yes, i think so
[21:21:41] <roycroft> so slower
[21:21:47] <roycroft> but better granularity
[21:22:14] <Tom_itx> odd number for an inch machine
[21:22:18] <Tom_itx> which is what i'd be after
[21:22:33] <roycroft> cnc has computer magic that can fix that for you
[21:22:37] <Tom_itx> .19685" per turn
[21:23:09] <XXCoder> computer doing computery thing? no! wow
[21:23:11] <XXCoder> ;)
[21:23:24] <roycroft> i would water that if you wanted an inch ball screw you would pay 4-5x as much for it
[21:23:29] <roycroft> wager, rather
[21:24:30] <Tom_itx> i bet you could get the pillow blocks from them as well
[21:24:31] <XXCoder> water wager lol
[21:24:35] <roycroft> 5/8"x5 turns/inch would be the nearest equivalent
[21:24:53] <roycroft> yes, they sell blocks
[21:24:58] <roycroft> probably the correct size, too
[21:25:18] <roycroft> those screws would make a bigger machine than i want/need
[21:25:21] <roycroft> which is better than smaller
[21:25:26] <jdh> why would you care if they are inch or metric
[21:25:29] <roycroft> and not all that much bigger
[21:25:42] <roycroft> i really don't
[21:25:49] <jdh> you can get whatever size you want cut to fit for pretty much the same price.
[21:25:49] <roycroft> because i only want to hold 0.005"
[21:26:07] <roycroft> the imprecision in converting from us common units to metric is way less than 0.005"
[21:26:19] <jdh> there is no imprecision
[21:26:28] <Tom_itx> this might be a better deal:
[21:26:29] <roycroft> there's a little bit
[21:26:33] <jdh> there is none.
[21:26:34] <anarchos2__> they changed the inch to match mm, exactly.
[21:26:37] <anarchos2__> did they not?
[21:26:46] <roycroft> an inch is exactly 25.4mm
[21:26:47] <Tom_itx> http://www.ebay.com/itm/3-anti-backlash-ballscrew-RM1605-400-600-600mm-C7-end-machine-ball-nut-CNC-set-/181300982331?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item2a3661723b
[21:26:59] <anarchos2__> 25.4 on the dot
[21:27:05] <Tom_itx> with free shipping
[21:27:16] <roycroft> not big enough
[21:27:22] <Tom_itx> except the x is too short...
[21:27:24] <roycroft> i need 2'x3' at least
[21:27:37] <roycroft> 1000mm is barely enough, if enough, for the x
[21:28:03] <roycroft> and 600mm is not quite enough for the y
[21:28:16] <roycroft> that's only $20 less
[21:28:27] <anarchos2__> http://www.ebay.ca/itm/SFU1605-1200-2600mm-Super-Long-Zero-Backlash-CNC-Ball-Screw-No-Endmachined-/141241957672
[21:28:30] <anarchos2__> that's what i need
[21:28:36] <anarchos2__> not too bad price wise, really.
[21:28:42] <roycroft> i'm liking the set i posted
[21:28:55] <roycroft> i'm going to ponder that while i finish making dinner
[21:29:10] <roycroft> but there's a strong likelihood i'll pull the trigger after dinner
[21:29:23] <XXCoder> it seems decent indeed
[21:29:24] <roycroft> i'm going to construct the frame/gantry out of 80/20, btw
[21:29:30] <XXCoder> damn
[21:29:34] <XXCoder> wish i can afford THAT
[21:29:45] <roycroft> it's a little pricey
[21:29:54] <roycroft> but if you put a value on your time, it's pretty cheap
[21:30:01] <roycroft> erector set for grownups :)
[21:30:04] <XXCoder> my router design has serious issues
[21:30:23] <anarchos2__> what kind of slides are you planning on using, raycroft?
[21:30:25] <Tom_itx> http://www.ebay.com/itm/SBR16-300-1300-1300mm-linear-rail-set-3-ballscrew-RM1605-BK-BF12-end-bearing-CNC-/171221281701?pt=BI_Heavy_Equipment_Parts&hash=item27dd956ba5
[21:30:26] <anarchos2__> roy*
[21:30:31] <Tom_itx> everything you need and then some
[21:30:42] <roycroft> i'm thinking cold-rolled steel
[21:30:48] <roycroft> 1/4"x2"
[21:31:01] <roycroft> and i'll make some blocks to slide on them with six bearings
[21:31:05] <Tom_itx> that kit has the slides too
[21:31:07] <roycroft> two above, two below, and two on the end
[21:31:09] <XXCoder> ouh painful but HUGE
[21:31:23] <XXCoder> but then it has EVERYTHIN
[21:31:34] <roycroft> i haven't figured out how to adjust the bearings, though
[21:31:52] <roycroft> i supposed if i machine everything properly in the first place there will be no need to adjust the bearings
[21:32:46] <anarchos2__> so with a setup like that, you'd mount the linear guide rails down to a frame, then mount the frame of your table to the blocks on the linear rails?
[21:32:59] <roycroft> i just got back from holidays, and i spent a bunch of time thinking about how to build the router
[21:33:34] <anarchos2__> and then attach your ball screw nut to the table somehow?
[21:33:43] <roycroft> i'd build a frame for the x axis with 80/20, mount the table to that frame directly, and put the guide rails on the bottom of the frame
[21:34:11] <roycroft> the gantry would extend down below the frame, and have a cross member underneath to which i'll attach the nut for the x axis ball screw
[21:34:14] <roycroft> does that make sense?
[21:34:21] <anarchos2__> a little
[21:34:28] <roycroft> i'm building a moving gantry router
[21:34:41] <anarchos2__> so your table is going to X, then the gantry Y/Z?
[21:34:47] <roycroft> yes
[21:34:56] <roycroft> the table is immobile
[21:35:00] <roycroft> it's attached to the frame
[21:35:05] <anarchos2__> ah i see
[21:35:05] <roycroft> x movement is by moving the gantry
[21:35:06] <XXCoder> moving gantry tyen
[21:35:13] <anarchos2__> all movement in gantry
[21:35:17] <roycroft> right
[21:35:24] <roycroft> i don't have room to build a moving table router
[21:35:30] <anarchos2__> heh, yeah
[21:35:34] <roycroft> moving gantry is significantly more compact
[21:36:02] <CaptHindsight> http://www.dogmaphobia.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/07/cad.jpg an example
[21:36:40] <anarchos2__> yeah makes sense
[21:36:55] <XXCoder> mines moving gantry too
[21:37:06] <roycroft> after i get the ball screws i'll start modeling the machine in solidworks
[21:37:38] <jdh> why not the other way around
[21:37:45] <roycroft> sort of, capthindsight
[21:37:59] <roycroft> except i'll be dropping the gantry below the table
[21:38:45] <roycroft> more like this:
[21:38:47] <roycroft> http://www.payne.org/index.php/File:IMG_0986.jpg
[21:39:29] <roycroft> jdh: i do not want to even consider modifying the ball screws
[21:39:37] <roycroft> i'd rather design around them than vice-versa
[21:39:49] <jdh> you can get ball screws exactly how you want for about the same price.
[21:40:13] <roycroft> i'm also waiting for the 80/20 dvd with all their parts in solidworks format
[21:40:18] <roycroft> that will make it a lot easier
[21:40:30] <CaptHindsight> be sure to get with them threads on one end for setting the bearing preload
[21:40:53] <roycroft> did you see the link i posted above, capthindsight?
[21:41:09] <CaptHindsight> yes
[21:41:34] <roycroft> that's all the information i have about them
[21:42:36] <roycroft> i've worked with machines that have ball screws, but never built nor maintained one that has them
[21:42:45] <roycroft> i don't know about setting the bearing preload on them
[21:43:01] <roycroft> if you would care to enlighten me further it would be much appreciated
[21:43:19] <roycroft> $159 is cheap, but if they don't do the job it's pissing $159 down the drain
[21:43:21] <CaptHindsight> ballscrew_fixity
[21:43:22] <roycroft> which is not cheap
[21:44:53] <CaptHindsight> http://machinedesign.com/linear-motion/importance-ballscrew-end-fixity
[21:45:15] <roycroft> thanks
[21:45:24] <roycroft> i'm not sure if that's one of the links you gave me the other day
[21:45:37] <roycroft> i went on a camping trip right after that, and just returned
[21:45:53] <roycroft> i didn't have a chance to visit all of the links you provided at the time - i'm just now catching up
[21:46:42] <anarchos2__> i have issues with my free end ball screw
[21:46:45] <anarchos2__> i'm afraid to commit
[21:47:20] <anarchos2__> to drilling my column
[21:50:16] <roycroft> ok, so from what i read of that a thrust bearing at the motor end is useful to ensure accuracy
[21:50:45] <anarchos2__> http://imgur.com/L3pZtvr
[21:51:32] <anarchos2__> i need to drill my Z plate into the column, right now it's held with a clamp, but i can't find the perfect alignment so the ball screw doesn't bind on the nut
[21:52:29] <anarchos2__> i think i need to get better clamos
[21:52:31] <roycroft> the linkage end of the screws i'm looking at have, coming out from the threads, a turned shaft of indeterminate length, a threaded section the same diameter, and a linkage section that is turned down smaller
[21:52:31] <anarchos2__> clamps
[21:52:43] <roycroft> one should be able to fabricate a thrust bearing to fit that
[21:53:12] <roycroft> and i mentioned the other day a concern about the screw "whipping" if turned too fast
[21:53:29] <roycroft> i can see how the fixed bearing would help alleviate that problem
[21:54:37] <anarchos2__> yea
[22:07:07] <CaptHindsight> http://www.kuroda-precision.com/products/ball_screws/QandA/BS_QandA_001.htm
[22:08:15] <CaptHindsight> http://machinedesign.com/site-files/machinedesign.com/files/archive/motionsystemdesign.com/images/typical-evaluation-checks.jpg
[22:11:01] <CaptHindsight> http://www.beaver-online.com/uploaded/files/Critical%20Speed%20Formula.pdf The maximum safe operating speed of a ballscrew assembly for normal operation is 80% of the critical speed p
[22:17:58] <Tom_itx> !wench ballscrew-info is
http://www.kuroda-precision.com/products/ball_screws/QandA/BS_QandA_001.htm and
http://machinedesign.com/site-files/machinedesign.com/files/archive/motionsystemdesign.com/images/typical-evaluation-checks.jpg and
http://www.beaver-online.com/uploaded/files/Critical%20Speed%20Formula.pdf
[22:18:25] <Tom_itx> and of course it's not online :(
[22:21:52] <the_wench> you called
[22:30:58] <Tom_itx> !wench ballscrew-info is
http://www.kuroda-precision.com/products/ball_screws/QandA/BS_QandA_001.htm and
http://machinedesign.com/site-files/machinedesign.com/files/archive/motionsystemdesign.com/images/typical-evaluation-checks.jpg and
http://www.beaver-online.com/uploaded/files/Critical%20Speed%20Formula.pdf
[22:31:44] * Tom_itx slaps the_wench a bit
[22:31:45] <archivist> !wench learn ballscrew-info is
http://www.kuroda-precision.com/products/ball_screws/QandA/BS_QandA_001.htm and
http://machinedesign.com/site-files/machinedesign.com/files/archive/motionsystemdesign.com/images/typical-evaluation-checks.jpg and
http://www.beaver-online.com/uploaded/files/Critical%20Speed%20Formula.pdf
[22:31:45] <the_wench> I have learned ballscrew-info is
http://www.kuroda-precision.com/products/ball_screws/QandA/BS_QandA_001.htm and
http://machinedesign.com/site-files/machinedesign.com/files/archive/motionsystemdesign.com/images/typical-evaluation-checks.jpg and
http://www.beaver-online.com/uploaded/files/Critical%20Speed%20Formula.pdf
[22:31:54] <CaptHindsight> ballscrew_fixity
[22:31:54] <the_wench> http://machinedesign.com/linear-motion/importance-ballscrew-end-fixity
[22:31:58] * archivist slaps Tom_itx
[22:32:10] <Tom_itx> thanks i needed that :)
[22:33:18] <CaptHindsight> ballscrews, microstepping and maybe t-slots are the top 3 topics
[22:33:20] <roycroft> well, fixed support blocks are more expensive than the ball screws themselves
[22:36:02] <roycroft> it might be better to go back to 25mm ball screws, anticipating that the greater rigidity of the shaft will better ameliorate the flex effect
[22:36:46] <Tom_itx> more mass to accelerate too
[22:40:03] <CaptHindsight> higher inertia
[22:44:59] <CaptHindsight> http://www.learneasy.info/MDME/MEMmods/class_projects/backstop/controller/Topic4-BallscrewCalculations.pdf
[23:05:06] <XXCoder> heys
[23:33:43] <anarchos2__> i kinda want one of these
[23:33:46] <anarchos2__> http://www.tormach.com/store/index.php?app=ecom&ns=prodshow&ref=32682#
[23:48:20] <roycroft> ok, i think this will work with those ball screws:
[23:48:22] <roycroft> http://tinyurl.com/mybyoye
[23:49:29] <roycroft> aah, a much better deal on a set of 3:
[23:49:30] <roycroft> http://tinyurl.com/poyxwm2
[23:52:52] <XXCoder> gonna love disconnects
[23:53:13] <roycroft> did you see the link to the mounts that i posted?
[23:53:39] <XXCoder> the screw mounts yeah
[23:54:24] <roycroft> they cost as much as the screws and nuts
[23:54:35] <roycroft> but still, about $300 for everything is a good deal
[23:54:35] <XXCoder> yeah
[23:54:43] <XXCoder> if you has skill its cheaper make own
[23:54:50] <XXCoder> I dont lol so I bougth my own
[23:55:28] <roycroft> the fixed bearing is a lot of machining
[23:55:33] <XXCoder> insane
https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=f44oHby9aMw
[23:55:57] <roycroft> i don't know that i have the skill - i could probably pull it off if i were really careful - but it would take me a long time to make those
[23:56:09] <XXCoder> time vs money
[23:56:49] <XXCoder> 800 inches per minute
[23:56:51] <XXCoder> insane
[23:56:57] <roycroft> that's wicked fast
[23:57:09] <XXCoder> my mentor told me about machine that does 1000 ipm though
[23:57:12] <roycroft> my brain would hurt if i watched that
[23:57:21] <XXCoder> lift millimeter above stock and go 1000 ipm
