#linuxcnc | Logs for 2014-08-28

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[00:04:39] <CaptHindsight> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SUIJySdkCZk gadzooks @6:00 using a hand grinder to resurface rotors while using the engine to turn the rotors
[00:16:34] <Jymmm> Maybe if is used a belt sander and 400+ paper
[00:16:54] <Jymmm> Part 2 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q5p-KHkx1YA
[00:27:33] <anarchos2> So i'm thinking of a design for a CNC bender (to bend the edges of skis/snowboards)
[00:28:46] <anarchos2> i was thinking two wheels, on driven, as an axis to move the rail along, and then a second linear axis wheel that comes from the other side but between the two drive wheels to do the bending
[00:29:16] <anarchos2> but i'm having a hard time conceptualizing how i would bend in both directions
[00:30:45] <anarchos2> or maybe I have four wheels moving the rail along, then two linear axis wheels/roller tool bits to move in from each side
[00:30:47] <anarchos2> hmm
[00:48:55] <tjtr33> LeelooMinai, ATF prevents rust https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Iu4vmnfxvWg youtube has a million 'prevent rust' vids
[01:12:59] <anarchos2> in Stepconf wizard, when I try to test the axis, it doesn't enable to charge pump.
[01:13:09] <anarchos2> so it's kinda useless to me...
[02:09:26] <Deejay> moin
[02:18:53] <MattyMatt> anarchos2, either 4 rollers, 2 on rams, or you'll need to flip the boards
[02:25:08] <anarchos2> yeah that's what i'm thinking too
[02:26:12] <anarchos2> but maybe 6 rollers, 4 stationary to move it along + provide "rigidity" for bending (so it bends and doesn't just move the unbent edge at an angle) and then two on rams to bend
[02:39:34] <anarchos2> Can I have all my axis home at once, instead of one after another?
[02:39:48] <anarchos2> each axis is on a different pin, i see no reason why it shouldn't work
[02:42:36] <anarchos2> ah, if i make HOME_SEQUENCE = 0 on all axis it does it
[04:03:44] <onyedikilo> hi all
[06:28:15] <jthornton> anarchos2, typically you home the Z axis then you home the X and Y axis that way the Z is up and out of the way of any obstacles
[06:42:58] <anarchos2> jthornton, ah yes, that makes a lot of sense
[07:22:38] <Tom_itx> saves tools too
[07:44:43] <jthornton> anarchos2, did you know you can test and adjust some settings in Axis
[08:36:38] <Hrki> hello, how to upgrade to 2.6 on machine without internet ?
[08:37:38] <cradek> there are many ways, none of them good or easy. if you can't bring internet to the machine, can you take the machine to internet?
[08:38:13] <cradek> if you google for apt over sneakernet, you might find some procedures that would work
[08:38:48] <cradek> you could reinstall the whole OS from cd, but that is a bigger job than necessary and doesn't solve the problem of not being able to get bugfix updates
[08:39:30] <Hrki> i dont think my riend have cd rom on machine :)
[08:40:53] <Hrki> how can i take machine to internet ?
[08:41:50] <cradek> put it under your arm? in a bus? on a plane? you'll have to figure that out yourself based on your situation
[08:42:03] <CaptHindsight> can you take the hard drive out and put the drive into another PC that is connected to the internet?
[08:42:07] * cpresser suggest quantum teleportation
[08:43:16] <Hrki> i have usb only
[08:48:48] <Rab> Hrki, if you can download the upgrade .debs and copy them to a USB stick, this might help: http://askubuntu.com/questions/3576/how-to-make-usb-drive-as-local-repository
[08:50:22] <Rab> Appears to apply to Debian as well. Copy the packages from the USB drive to /var/cache/apt/archives, start the package manager, and set the Origin to Local.
[08:50:51] <Hrki> sorry, am little rusty in linux
[08:51:31] <Rab> I really only use Slackware, so I can't give you much better advice.
[08:56:40] <Hrki> hmm, this is different tutorial then http://www.debian-administration.org/article/648/Offline_Package_Management_for_APTž
[09:04:24] <pcw_home> Any ideas on how to fix this configure error:
[09:04:26] <pcw_home> "checking match between tk and Tkinter versions... TCL mismatch: 8.5 vs 8.6
[09:04:27] <pcw_home> configure: error: Python requires use of Tcl 8.6 and Tk 8.6"
[09:08:21] <Rab> Are Tcl and Tk 8.6 installed?
[09:08:32] <pcw_home> yes
[09:10:00] * likevinyl is away: Beware! The hippies will drink your beer!
[09:11:10] <Rab> pcw_home, tried --with-tkConfig=/path/to/tkconfig.sh --with-tclConfig=/path/to/tclconfig.sh ?
[09:12:22] <Rab> (Where the paths lead to your Tcl/Tk 8.6 installations.)
[09:12:47] <Rab> Guessing there's still Tcl and/or Tk 8.5 still on your system somewhere, and that's what configure is finding.
[09:19:22] <pcw_home> There is an tcl/tk 8.5 installation
[09:19:23] <pcw_home> I couldn't figure out what --with-tclConfig parameter is needed
[09:19:41] <Rab> ./configure --help | less
[09:20:12] <Rab> Oh, you mean where 8.6 is actually located?
[09:26:09] <pcw_home> well Ubuntu say 8.6 is installed but it does not seem to be...
[09:27:24] <Rab> updatedb ; locate tkconfig.sh | grep 8.6
[09:28:08] <Rab> updatedb may take a few minutes, but it's worth it IMO.
[09:29:33] <pcw_home> yeah its there somewhere...
[09:34:36] <cpresser> my gueess would be that tclConfig is not part of the "tcl"-package, but of the "tcl-dev" package
[09:34:55] <pcw_home> ahh
[09:37:21] <Rab> That does not appear to be the case in my installation...tclConfig and tkConfig are part of the default packages.
[09:37:35] <Rab> The C is capitalized, though.
[09:38:48] <pcw_home> I had no 8.6 tclConfig.sh until I installed tcl-dev
[09:39:10] <Rab> pcw_home, interesting.
[09:39:41] <pcw_home> now configure complains about both being present so the config options should work now
[09:41:37] <miss0r> What are you guys using for 'suction' in your vacuum tables?
[09:42:15] <SpeedEvil> A shopvac will get you to 1/3 of an atmosphere
[09:42:25] <SpeedEvil> In many cases, there is little reason to go for more.
[09:42:37] <SpeedEvil> That is - 1/3 down from 1 atmosphere
[09:43:12] <miss0r> indeed. That is what I am using at the moment. but sometimes I wish for a more quite solution
[09:44:41] <pcw_home> ok was just that tcl-dev and tk-dev for 8.6 were not installed
[09:46:09] <Rab> pcw_home, what's your distro/version?
[09:51:59] <SpeedEvil> miss0r: do you have a nice well-sealed vacuum table?
[09:52:40] <SpeedEvil> miss0r: Of course - the 0th order silly solution that works just fine. Put the shopvac outside, in a little box
[09:53:25] <pcw_home> ubuntu 14.04/master
[09:54:50] <SpeedEvil> miss0r: then the slightly less silly 'get a quiet vacuum'
[10:00:01] <pcw_home> now the compile blows up in the boost/python stuff :-(
[10:07:40] * likevinyl is back (gone 00:57:39)
[10:28:44] <CaptHindsight> what if you used compressed air and sealed the machine in a chamber? The vacuum port would be the only opening to atmospheric pressure.
[10:29:32] <CaptHindsight> this way you can get more differential pressure than just the 2/3 and 1 atmosphere
[10:30:33] <miss0r> SpeedEvil: It is a nice tight vac table. and I have thought about putting the shop vac outside. The thing that is noisy the most is the air 'escaping' underneath the vac table. (I have to have a small hole, otherwise the vac starts a warning light that says ' check filter', and I am worried it might overheat if no air comes through)
[10:33:35] <SpeedEvil> It will
[10:33:47] <SpeedEvil> Make a better restrictor
[10:34:09] <SpeedEvil> For example - a length of 1/2" hoseattached to a hole in the pipe is a much quieter restrictor than just a hole in the pipe
[10:39:14] <CaptHindsight> but you'll never get more than 1 atmosphere of pressure differential doing it that way :)
[10:43:37] <SpeedEvil> If you'e got >1 atm - it'snot a vacuum table.
[10:43:39] <SpeedEvil> (on earth)
[10:49:14] <CaptHindsight> pressure differential table
[10:50:30] <SpeedEvil> Or hydroforming
[10:53:31] <Jymmm> hydrofarming
[11:14:56] <CaptHindsight> http://3dprintingindustry.com/2014/08/28/3d-printed-skeleton-key-software-open-pin-tumbler-lock/
[11:31:07] <Jymmm> Ok, now I see a 2nd USEFUL purpose for 3d printing.
[11:32:12] <Jymmm> I can't tell you how much time is involved when you have to duplicate a restricted keyway and don't have it in stock.
[11:32:48] <Jymmm> ...all by hand too.
[11:35:01] <jdh> I've never had to.
[11:37:36] <Jymmm> When you have 250 IC locksets to repin, it can save LOADS of time
[11:42:56] <CaptHindsight> agreed, so master keys and fake mustaches
[12:15:34] <ssi> new laser will be here wednesday
[12:15:41] <SpeedEvil> Woo!
[12:15:59] <SpeedEvil> Will it enable you to create self-sustaining fusion when fired at cumquats?
[12:16:07] <ssi> I dunno, but we can try!
[12:16:25] <ssi> lasering foods is fun
[12:16:27] <ssi> https://fbcdn-sphotos-e-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-xaf1/v/t1.0-9/10590513_10100463107142082_6436551315198675734_n.jpg?oh=b77c8e7385302386717c22032cefd0c8&oe=545FF5AB&__gda__=1416433439_c3870c5611baaf11c28b7a4a80329c9e
[12:16:42] <ssi> LAZERTÖST
[12:17:02] <SpeedEvil> ssi: One word.
[12:17:04] <SpeedEvil> Kickstarter
[12:17:08] <ssi> heheheh
[12:17:28] <ssi> this was my facebook post accompianing that picture: "I've got a new product I'm thinking about putting on kickstarter... LAZERTÖST"
[12:17:53] <ssi> unfortunately it tastes terrible :D
[12:23:56] * Loetmichel has just recived his used damaged amilo LI3910... dismantled the keyboard, umplugged the lvds cable, replugged it: display ok... then why it still doesent boot? ah, smartmontools: hdd selftest failed... new 340GB hdd inserted: useable notebook for 97 eur and a spare HDD... but boy, is that thing BIG ;-)
[12:24:51] <Jymmm> Loetmichel: ow, say it in english!
[12:30:17] <Loetmichel> http://www.cyrom.org/palbum/main.php?g2_itemId=15235
[12:30:19] <Loetmichel> hmm?
[12:30:32] <Loetmichel> that was english... i thought ;-)
[12:31:12] <Jymmm> lol
[12:32:15] <Jymmm> it was, I'm just teasing you
[12:39:50] <MrHindsight> Loetmichel: was the drive actually bad or just needed reformatting?
[12:39:59] <Loetmichel> drive is dead
[12:40:13] <MrHindsight> I like the easy fixes
[12:40:16] <Loetmichel> 55 remapped sectors, and every selftest adds anopther 20 or so
[12:40:50] <pcw_home> maybe it will level off :-)
[12:42:00] <MrHindsight> pcw_home: which APU mini-itx board did you ask me about ~2 weeks ago?
[12:42:25] <MrHindsight> we think we have all the RTAI issues sorted out
[12:42:42] <Loetmichel> i have about 20 340gb hitachi hdds spare at the company... from an order where the customer wanted 512gb ssds in the notebooks... so no need to hassle around with a dead drive
[12:42:54] <pcw_home> the A4-6800 (I think)
[12:43:01] <Loetmichel> @ pcw_home
[12:44:14] <MrHindsight> http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813138412&cm_re=A4_mini-itx-_-13-138-412-_-Product
[12:44:18] <pcw_home> Biostar A68N-5000 which has a A4-5000
[12:44:29] <pcw_home> Yeah
[12:45:25] <pcw_home> I'll just order one today and see how it goes
[12:45:30] <MrHindsight> we use the LLVMPIPE driver and use all 4 cores, there's a bug in the X driver (IIRC) that causes some latency delay
[12:47:15] <MrHindsight> HD video playback and video game play is smooth while running linuxcnc :)
[12:48:26] <MrHindsight> I'll build some debs once I get all the tools installed
[12:48:58] <MrHindsight> is there a good howto for building debs?
[12:55:32] <Jymmm> MrHindsight: Google knows
[12:59:37] <CaptHindsight> but Google won't tell me which ones are good and which ones were written by someone that skips half the steps
[13:00:23] <Jymmm> And your point is?
[13:43:54] <Jymmm> Will crazy glue adhere to mylar film?
[13:43:54] <Jymmm> (bond)
[13:44:20] <Tom_itx> one way to find out
[13:44:24] <Tom_itx> i bet it will
[13:44:39] <ssi> I dunno... mylar is pretty smooth, and I think CA depends on surface roughness
[13:44:52] <Jymmm> I know epoxy won't
[13:45:09] <Jymmm> fiberglass epoxy that is
[13:45:35] <ssi> yeah it definitely won't
[13:45:37] <ds3> how well does it NOT stick to mylar?
[13:45:48] <Jymmm> ds3: epoxy?
[13:45:48] <Tom_itx> what?
[13:45:54] <ds3> yes, the expoxy
[13:45:56] <ds3> epoxy
[13:46:07] <Tom_itx> probably not at all
[13:46:18] <Jymmm> ds3: They use mylar film to leave a smooth finish n fiberglass/carbon fiber
[13:46:27] <Jymmm> ds3: then just peel it off
[13:46:34] <ds3> Ohh nice... so I can use ESD bags as a form release
[13:46:36] <Jymmm> once cured.
[13:46:42] <ds3> thanks. that's a helpful hint
[13:47:06] <Jymmm> Have you seen the price of static bags lately? $$$
[13:47:27] <Jymmm> better to go buy by the feet
[13:47:33] <ds3> if you work in an area that generates a lot of used ESD bags, that is a non issue
[13:47:36] <Jymmm> foot/yard
[13:47:40] <Tom_itx> haven't purchased any lately
[13:47:48] <Tom_itx> but last time i did it wasn't so bad
[13:47:52] <ds3> got stacks of that from boards and other electronics (work stuff)
[13:47:57] <Tom_itx> Jymmm how big?
[13:48:09] <Jymmm> ds3: Well, if you have LOTS of bags, Ill take some off your hands
[13:48:18] <ds3> Jymmm: what size and how many?
[13:48:24] <Jymmm> Tom_itx: comes 3o r 4 ft wide on a roll
[13:48:41] <ds3> they get used like grocery plastic bags by the electronics mfg companies
[13:48:42] <Jymmm> ds3: how big you got?
[13:48:57] <Tom_itx> Jymmm, what size bags?
[13:49:15] <Tom_itx> the dark mylar ones or the pink ones?
[13:49:22] <Jymmm> dark mylar
[13:49:22] <ds3> Jymmm: The giant ones (bigger then a sheet of paper) are rare but I got a good mix of stuff sandwich bag size and down
[13:49:29] <ds3> you black ones or the silver ones?
[13:49:45] <ds3> you want
[13:50:02] <Jymmm> ds3: semi see thru
[13:50:29] <ds3> didn't think they were semisee through, I'll have to check... the ones i have are the silver ones
[13:50:42] <ds3> you can probally get a good crate full if you dumpsterdive
[13:50:50] <Jymmm> ds3: where?
[13:51:11] <Tom_itx> Jymmm, check uline or mouser
[13:51:25] <ds3> Jymmm: the silicon valley... they are pretty much required to be used for transporting boards
[13:51:37] <Jymmm> Tom_itx: too expensive to buy, but I can dumpster dive
[13:51:49] <Tom_itx> personal use?
[13:51:50] <Jymmm> ds3: YOu do realize we live in the same city, right =)
[13:51:55] <Tom_itx> i just threw out a whole bunch
[13:52:02] <Jymmm> Tom_itx: DOH
[13:52:10] <ds3> Jymmm: yes, but not all of the city is silicon valley and silicon valley spans 3-4 cities
[13:52:30] <Jymmm> ds3: and many places LOCK their dumpsters (bastards)
[13:52:32] <Tom_itx> Jymmm, i got tired of kicking em around
[13:52:45] <ds3> Jymmm: really? even HSC?
[13:52:52] <Jymmm> Tom_itx: I understand.
[13:52:55] <ds3> the silver stick sticks out
[13:53:06] <Tom_itx> Jymmm, there _are_ bolt cutters...
[13:53:17] <Jymmm> ds3: I think so, they get too many ppl leaving a mess
[13:53:26] <Jymmm> Tom_itx: No need ;)
[13:53:33] <ds3> oh...that's new
[13:53:59] <Jymmm> ds3: Besides, HSC would probably resell them =)
[13:54:02] <Tom_itx> http://www.mouser.com/ProductDetail/Desco/13415/?qs=sGAEpiMZZMsRBR5s81osfsUWs%252b9601U1
[13:54:05] <Jymmm> as would weird stuff
[13:54:07] <Tom_itx> i get those for my boards
[13:54:17] <archivist> you have to be a member of HASR to dumpster dive ( Honorable Association of Skip Rats)
[13:54:37] <ds3> Jymmm: Hmmmm...talk to IT guys...lots of stuff is bagged in them
[13:55:05] <CaptHindsight> the categories of cyanoacrylates and epoxies are slightly more specific than just saying glue. The formulations can vary greatly and bond to completely different surfaces.
[13:55:08] <Jymmm> ds3: Ha! I've been out of IT for a long time =) (Thank Gawd)
[13:55:24] <ds3> Jymmm: so have I but I still got contacts
[13:55:36] <Jymmm> ds3: Are these what you mean by "silver"? http://www.mouser.com/ProductDetail/Desco/13415/?qs=sGAEpiMZZMsRBR5s81osfsUWs%252b9601U1
[13:56:53] <ds3> can't tell from the picture. there are the plain silver ones and then there are the higher end ones with a inside black liner...some of them even have bubble wrap material between the silver side and the inside black
[13:56:55] <ssi> I bought the X axis linear rail for my plasma table at HSC :P
[13:57:10] <ds3> the plain silver ones are easy to find...the other ones are rare
[13:59:14] <CaptHindsight> mylar is biaxially-oriented polyethylene terephthalate or BoPET
[13:59:39] <ds3> Jymmm: check the trash of the CM's around here. they use a LOT Of them. I have had boards brought in with ratty ones and the same boards come back with new ones
[14:01:44] <cabbage_breath> lets say you have 2 motors on one axis with limit switches for each one. With a 5i20 is it possible to decouple the motors when homing to ensure that they allign?
[14:02:28] <Tom_itx> gantry?
[14:02:55] <CaptHindsight> simple put those bags are metal coated polyester, they use vapor deposition where the metal is vaporized into very small particles that stick to the polyester when heated
[14:04:17] <CaptHindsight> what bonds to one suppliers bag might not work well from another
[14:04:40] <ds3> hmm
[14:05:49] <cabbage_breath> yeah gantry
[14:05:56] <Jymmm> ds3: CM's?
[14:06:47] <cabbage_breath> CM?
[14:08:19] <Jymmm> ds3: the bags I'm talking about you can see thru if put up to the light. Kind of a metalic smokey grey in color
[14:08:58] <Tom_itx> Jymmm what size bags do you need?
[14:09:04] <Jymmm> not foil lined, no bubblewrap, no pink nothing.
[14:09:27] <Jymmm> Tom_itx: Need is subjective, I'd like the largest I can get.
[14:09:52] <Tom_itx> one you can wrap a car in?
[14:10:05] <Jymmm> Tom_itx: 5 to 10 gallon
[14:10:28] <ssi> cabbage_breath: yes it's doable, but it's not super trivial
[14:10:29] <Jymmm> but 1gal would be great too
[14:10:57] <Jymmm> as would one pint (typical HDD size)
[14:11:33] <Jymmm> Also sizes that would fit a smartphone in.
[14:11:35] <Tom_itx> 12 x 18 are eighty bux a hundred
[14:11:47] <Jymmm> Tom_itx: I know
[14:12:11] <Jymmm> Tom_itx: Thus why NEED is subjective =)
[14:12:21] <cabbage_breath> ssi: go on...
[14:12:22] <Tom_itx> http://www.uline.com/BL_54/Static-Shielding-Rolls
[14:12:29] <Tom_itx> there's roll material
[14:12:31] <Jymmm> ppl throw this shit out, I just have to find who they are =)
[14:14:11] <cabbage_breath> ssi: any info on it out there?
[14:17:58] <cabbage_breath> found some stuff
[14:20:39] <Jymmm> Tom_itx: Yeah, I can buy locally by the foot of sheet material.
[14:28:40] <cabbage_breath> ssi: this is for a plasma table. if I just put the switches in series then it would wait for both to be closed before sending a limit signal. is this bad practice?
[14:38:43] <JT-Shop> my CHNC is acting goofy today
[14:42:49] <Tom_itx> sure it's not the operator?
[14:43:18] <ssi> cabbage_breath: sry, one sec
[14:43:50] <cabbage_breath> ssi: np i'm in no rush
[14:44:28] <ssi> cabbage_breath: I have two gantry machines; the best way I've found to do what you want to do is to use the joints_axes branch of linuxcnc
[14:45:16] <ssi> cabbage_breath: it is a big refactor that separates the concept of joints from the concept of axes; linuxcnc with trivial kinematics assumes every axis has one joint, but ja allows you to have multiple joints per axis, even with trivial kinematirs
[14:45:50] <ssi> so the first step is to get to where you can build linuxcnc from source, and check out one of the ja branches from git... I recommend ja5
[14:46:23] <chd> So one homing switch for each of the gantry motors?
[14:46:31] <ssi> yes
[14:47:50] <chd> Probably the finest solution. But I use my plasma gantry with only one switch. After a one time measurement for 90° I never get step losses
[14:48:11] <ssi> yeah, most people do that
[14:48:16] <cabbage_breath> ja5 is found somewhere in here? http://git.linuxcnc.org/gitweb
[14:48:27] <ssi> I wanted independent homing so I can programmatically adjust gantry squareness
[14:48:53] <ssi> I tend to use jepler's github mirror
[14:48:54] <ssi> https://github.com/jepler/linuxcnc-mirror/tree/joints_axes5
[14:50:30] <cabbage_breath> chd: are you running the drivers in parallel?
[14:50:43] <chd> yes
[14:51:40] <cabbage_breath> how much data do you have? i mean, how long have you run the machine without failure/noticing a problem in squareness?
[14:52:16] <cabbage_breath> ssi: does this change anything down the line after compiling with ja
[14:53:05] <ssi> mostly changes how the configs work
[14:53:08] <chd> I have tested for squareness only one time with both steppers on a full step (its a little bit tricky) and then fixed the gantry screws. Now it runs since afew months
[14:54:30] <chd> I also had tested for step losses via random G0 of 30m/min für a few hourse - all was fine :-)
[14:55:11] <cabbage_breath> chd: i'm thinking about rack&pinion. this means more mechanical resistance than ballscrews I think. think it's an issue?
[14:56:44] <cabbage_breath> ssi: is this up-to-date for ja5? http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?JointAxesBranch
[14:57:28] <ssi> I believe so
[14:57:36] <cabbage_breath> ok. seems simple enough
[14:57:37] <chd> Oh, I use this for my plasma - it's simple and works :-) Ballscrews are oversized for a plasma in my opinion - more than 1/10mm is not needed
[14:58:07] <chd> Another option would be HTD belts
[14:58:16] <cabbage_breath> chd: i like it. for some reason I thought you are using ballscrews
[14:58:36] <chd> No, too expensive for that - :-)
[14:59:04] <cabbage_breath> yeah. are you using belts?
[14:59:28] <chd> No, but I know some plasma machines doing so
[14:59:42] <ssi> I started with rack and pinion
[14:59:46] <ssi> and my X axis has been converted to belt
[15:00:10] <ssi> and my laser machine is all belt
[15:00:10] <chd> Ah - I use rack an dpinion for all three axes
[15:00:26] <cabbage_breath> does x commonly refer to the axis on which the z axis is mounted?
[15:00:41] <ssi> it depends which way the gantry runs :)
[15:00:53] <cabbage_breath> *facepalm*
[15:00:58] <cradek> x is usually the longest travel -- coordinate system is always RH
[15:01:40] <cabbage_breath> ah good to know
[15:01:43] <chd> But I use springs to press the pinion against the rack - so I get nur backlash :-)
[15:01:44] <ssi> my plasma machine is square, so it really could go either way
[15:01:50] <ssi> but X is left right relative to the operator position
[15:01:59] <chd> no backlash
[15:15:12] <JT-Shop> anyone know the temperature and time to anneal cast steel after welding on it?
[15:25:39] <onyedikilo> MrHindsight, remember the step loss on z i was talking about yesterday? I put back the end block, it did not change anything. Then i reduced the microsteps from 8 to 2, resonance started and more step losses. I then made the microstepping 4 which seemed to work ok without the resonance, but the step losses are still there. I removed the screws from all the axes, put tape on the motor shaft and marked the zero position, run the g
[15:26:03] <onyedikilo> then i put the screws back on, same step loss on z.
[15:26:47] <onyedikilo> i then lowered the velocity to 4000mm and acceleration to 500 still loss steps.
[15:27:43] <onyedikilo> i will try lowering it, but i think i need to buy the stepper with encoder for the problem to go away
[15:55:14] <Tom_itx> JT-Shop, this may be of some use: http://www.brazing.com/techguide/procedures/cast_iron.asp
[15:55:53] <MrHindsight> onyedikilo: I forget, do you loose steps only moving the Z in one direction, or in both directions?
[15:56:00] <MrHindsight> loose/lose
[15:56:05] <onyedikilo> only on z
[15:56:21] <MrHindsight> both ways, up and down of just up?
[15:56:32] <onyedikilo> but when i disable x and y, and just run the gcode with z enabled, no loss steps
[15:56:44] <onyedikilo> it goes up always
[15:57:09] <MrHindsight> so you only lose steps when moving the Z up and not down
[15:57:35] <onyedikilo> it finishes higher than it started
[15:59:16] <MrHindsight> onyedikilo: how do you disable X and Y?
[16:01:02] <onyedikilo> removed the gcode for x and y
[16:01:15] <onyedikilo> left with only z moves
[16:01:20] <MrHindsight> since Englsih is not your first language I'm just trying to be sure we understand you
[16:01:25] <onyedikilo> pulling the plugs would be another idea
[16:01:25] <Tom_itx> JT-Shop, also (725k): http://www.sfsa.org/sfsa/pubs/hbk/s7.pdf
[16:01:41] <onyedikilo> ok
[16:02:26] <Tom_itx> JT-Shop, 2nd link maybe not as useful
[16:02:51] <MrHindsight> onyedikilo: how far is your power supply from the stepper drives?
[16:03:15] <onyedikilo> 2 meters
[16:03:45] <onyedikilo> 1.5 to 2 meters
[16:04:03] <MrHindsight> onyedikilo: what happens if you manually jog the Z, no g-code
[16:04:12] <onyedikilo> goes perfect
[16:04:39] <onyedikilo> smooth
[16:04:47] <onyedikilo> gets the job done :)
[16:05:49] <onyedikilo> 0.2-0.3 mm off on long gcodes like 300.000-500.000 lines of code, takes around 45 minutes to finish
[16:06:20] <onyedikilo> at 4meters/min it makes 180 meters of travel i think
[16:06:27] <JT-Shop> first link is about cast iron not cast steel
[16:06:41] <MrHindsight> what about if the g-code is just Z moves up and down for 30 minutes?
[16:06:44] <Tom_itx> i'd search for regular steel
[16:07:25] <onyedikilo> if the gcode is just for z up and down, no lost steps
[16:07:27] <JT-Shop> second link is what I was looking for I think it's about welding and postweld heat treatment :)
[16:07:34] <MrHindsight> JT-Shop: I'd think the temp would be based on the amount of carbon in the steel
[16:07:41] <Tom_itx> i've got another pdf but it's huge
[16:07:55] <Tom_itx> heat treatment data book
[16:08:05] <Tom_itx> 2829k if you want it
[16:08:28] <JT-Shop> let me read this one for a while
[16:08:44] <Tom_itx> ok, i can post the other on my site if you decide you want it
[16:09:23] <Tom_itx> i know cast iron you need to wrap and cool slow
[16:09:44] <onyedikilo> i am pretty sure it is a binding issue but couldnt figure out why it only happens when all 3 axis are moving and not when z is running alone, maybe i was lucky when testing with only z moves?
[16:11:51] <MrHindsight> onyedikilo: if the Z moves freely no matter what position X and Y are in then it's not that, but..
[16:12:18] <MrHindsight> your machine would be twisting somehow to do that, and it looked pretty rigid from the pics
[16:13:59] <onyedikilo> also when i listen to the sound of the machine i dont hear any stalls
[16:14:08] <MrHindsight> if the power supply is to weak you might lose steps, but then you'd see it on all 3 axis, unless only the Z somehow gets starved of power
[16:14:58] <Deejay> gn8
[16:15:14] <onyedikilo> MrHindsight, my power supply http://www.leadshine.com/productdetail.aspx?type=products&category=power-supplies&producttype=regulated-switching&series=RPS&model=RPS608
[16:15:19] <MrHindsight> try using halscope on the signals or swapping stepper drives and see if the problem changes axis
[16:15:46] <cabbage_breath> ssi: last time i talked to you you were switching from lcthc to a mesa thc - how'd it go?
[16:15:49] <onyedikilo> MrHindsight, i swapped the stepper drivers, nothing changed
[16:16:31] <onyedikilo> i did 2 runs without the motors attached to leadscrews and no lost steps there either
[16:17:18] <onyedikilo> i used a double sided tape and marked the positions of the motor shafts when they are on 0.
[16:17:46] <onyedikilo> did the run 2 times and when homed to 0, the tapes were pointing the same direction
[16:18:25] <onyedikilo> i believe it is not an emi issue
[16:19:41] <JT-Shop> MrHindsight, this is parts on a 1965 John Deere crawler, I don't think there is any way to know the carbon content
[16:21:37] <Tom_itx> just 'farm' weld it :D
[16:26:18] <Tom_itx> you could figure it out with spectrographic analysis but i don't think that's what you had in mind
[16:27:27] <MrHindsight> http://www.slideshare.net/drsjose/heat-treatments
[16:28:06] <MrHindsight> slide 10 of 69 has a nice chart
[16:31:01] <PetefromTn_> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lmk-y_9exJ8 Goofy dude but interesting idea.
[16:31:17] <JT-Shop> I did farm weld it the first time and almost could not drill it back out
[16:31:30] <Tom_itx> heh
[16:33:38] <JT-Shop> I guess looking at that chart that 750-800c would be a good place to start
[16:34:37] <Tom_itx> you got an oven to heat it in?
[16:34:44] <Tom_itx> kiln...
[16:39:09] <JT-Shop> yea, the kiln can go to 2350F
[16:39:39] <Tom_itx> that'd probably be a good place to start
[16:39:48] <Tom_itx> may wanna go on the high side of it
[16:40:04] <Tom_itx> 14-1500F
[16:41:13] <JT-Shop> yea, 1500F looks like a good place to start
[16:41:29] <onyedikilo> MrHindsight, i just did a test with 2500mm/m and 250 velocity, the loss became larger. it was around 0.2-0.3mm now it is around 0.45mm.
[16:41:33] <JT-Shop> it's computer controlled so I can set the soak time and the ramp down time
[16:42:13] <onyedikilo> do you think with an encoder and closed loop i can overcome the problem ?
[16:42:59] <onyedikilo> leadshine has easy servos, steppers with encoders. If they loose position they somehow get back on track
[16:43:25] <onyedikilo> should i invest on one or do more tests?
[16:43:43] <PCW> maybe not... if you are losing steps, you can lose encoder counts also
[16:44:22] <Tom_itx> JT-Shop, did that pdf say anything about just air cooling?
[16:44:52] <onyedikilo> PCW, if the step losses are from mechanical binding is it possible to loose encoder counts ?
[16:45:04] <Tom_itx> run it up to temp and just turn the oven off and let it cool
[16:47:26] <MrHindsight> onyedikilo: please post your .ini file
[16:47:36] <PCW> if you lose steps from binding you need to fix your mechanics
[16:47:55] <MrHindsight> onyedikilo: pastebin.ca or similar
[16:48:15] <onyedikilo> i can do that tomorrow
[16:49:03] <MrHindsight> there doesn't seem to be any mechanical binding, plus it only happens when he makes X and Y moves along with Z, not just when making Z moves
[16:50:03] <onyedikilo> yes that is weird, and also without any load no lost steps either.
[16:50:08] <MrHindsight> and he's only losing Z steps, not X or Y
[16:50:25] <MrHindsight> and he swapped stepper drives and the problem is only seen on Z
[16:51:28] <MrHindsight> with 8Nm stepper on Z with 10m pitch, you might have to keep accel lower
[16:51:51] <onyedikilo> isn't 250 low ?
[16:52:11] <onyedikilo> i can run it with 1000
[16:52:32] <onyedikilo> i can keep lowering it
[16:52:58] <onyedikilo> but it doesnt seem to do any good so far
[16:53:02] <MrHindsight> onyedikilo: I'd try it with really low accel and feed rate. then see if you still lose steps
[16:53:48] <MrHindsight> you're going through all the tests to try and isolate where the problem is
[16:54:12] <onyedikilo> what would that be in your opinion? 250mm/m and maybe 50 accel. =
[16:54:54] <onyedikilo> i need to keep it high so it wont stall because of the vibrations
[16:55:18] <onyedikilo> the resonance on slow movements stalls the stepper
[16:56:00] <cabbage_breath> can anyone link to a recommended nema 23 for g540?
[16:56:07] <MrHindsight> onyedikilo: whats the wire length from drive to Z motor?
[16:56:17] <MrHindsight> what size and type of wire?
[16:56:34] <cabbage_breath> or even the name of a good supplier
[16:56:55] <onyedikilo> around 2.5 meters, shielded 4x2.5mm
[16:57:07] <onyedikilo> not twisted pairs
[16:57:43] <MrHindsight> what gauge wire?
[16:58:23] <onyedikilo> it says 2.5mm squared
[16:58:51] <MrHindsight> onyedikilo: did you tune the drive with the ProTuner software?
[16:59:19] <onyedikilo> yes i did some tuning for the low speed resonances,
[17:00:25] <onyedikilo> the current tuning is done with the switch on the driver, you switch it on/off 2 times in 1 secs and it detects the stepper motor and loads the current data for the stepper
[17:00:35] <MrHindsight> 2.5mm wire is ~10ga awg, big enough
[17:02:06] <onyedikilo> do you have any idea why i did not loose any steps when i removed the couplers from the steppers and did the same test ?
[17:02:17] <MrHindsight> I have to go make chips now
[17:02:18] <onyedikilo> twice that is
[17:02:27] <onyedikilo> :)
[17:02:42] <JT-Shop> Tom_itx, you have to cool it gradually like 100-150F per hour
[17:02:57] <MrHindsight> http://www.powerwerx.com/wiregauge.asp
[17:03:53] <anarchos2> http://precisiongraniteusa.com/pdffiles/PGPRICELIST.pdf
[17:03:59] <anarchos2> cheaper than I expected.
[17:05:29] <onyedikilo> see ya tomorrow
[18:21:44] <JT-Shop> this will be the first time the kiln has been above 500F
[18:43:12] <SpeedEvil> What're you kilning?
[18:43:57] <jthornton> I'm annealing some cast steel that I welded up holes in so I can redrill the holes to the proper size
[18:46:09] <JT-Shop> the last one I did without annealing hardened the weld zone so drilling was difficult
[18:55:39] <JT-Shop> I think I should have plugged the top element in now... it seems to be stalled at 1100F
[19:06:51] <JT-Shop> well it's up to 1200F
[19:07:17] <JT-Shop> the outside is quite warm when the inside is 1200F
[19:30:38] <JT-Shop> 1400F
[19:33:22] <Tom_itx> that could take a while too
[19:33:38] <Tom_itx> i'd guess 3-4 hrs maybe?
[19:35:34] * Tom_itx thinks JT-Shop is working overtime
[19:36:50] <WalterN> making more copper parts
[19:37:09] <WalterN> sat down to take a break and I really dont feel like getting up
[19:42:52] <Jymmm> WalterN: There's beer 3ft outside your reach.
[19:43:06] <WalterN> heh
[19:43:16] <WalterN> Jymmm: I have vodka in the trunk of my car
[19:43:34] <Jymmm> that's too far
[19:43:56] <WalterN> well, its a good thing I don't really like beer then
[19:45:35] <WalterN> hmm
[19:46:52] <PetefromTn_> Well I managed to pickup the exact same angular contact bearings that were in my spindle motor finally today...
[19:47:23] <WalterN> Jymmm: I'm kinda tempted to grab some of that vodka now
[19:53:35] <MrHindsight> PetefromTn_: did you find them locally?
[20:05:17] <PetefromTn_> Sorry lost connection somehow LOL
[20:06:22] <PetefromTn_> anyways I got a quote for the two RHP bearings from my local supplier Industrial Bearing and Transmission of $198.00 for the larger bottom bearing and $225.00 for the smaller top bearing.
[20:07:44] <PetefromTn_> I just ordered the pair from this NY company for $200.00 shipped so I feel pretty good about it right now ;). they are USA made Fafnir bearings and like I said they are the exact same dimensions and specs and speed ratings of the ones in the motor. Actually they are speed rated HIGHER with grease then the ones in the original motor setup.
[20:27:33] <Tom_itx> the bearing supply never called back
[20:37:55] <Jymmm> WalterN: lol
[20:39:54] <CaptHindsight> Timken owns Fafnir
[20:40:08] <CaptHindsight> http://www.astbearings.com/fafnir-ball-bearings.html
[21:51:46] <timm_> anybody here tonight?
[21:52:13] <XXCoder> me
[21:53:26] <timm_> I've been working on retrofitting a Haas VF1 , tool changer is going to be a challenge
[21:54:57] <XXCoder> cool. been too bust to make my own... because I use hurco vm10 at work lol
[21:55:51] <timm_> i'm waiting for Tkamsker to return from his vacation, looks like he's been able to get a carousel changer to work with Z axis movement.
[22:00:05] <WalterN> Jymmm: I'm home now... so I can dig into that vodka :3
[22:00:46] <timm_> His Chris Radek here tonight?
[22:00:51] <timm_> Is
[22:18:27] <anarchos2> is there any way to temporarily ignore a limit switch?
[22:19:12] <anarchos2> such as...my limit switch is tripped on an axis, but i can't turn the power on to move the table away from the limit switch since the switch is flipped and prevents anything from happening
[22:20:53] <anarchos2> hmm, maybe he "ignore limits" check box in gmoccapy that seems to not work in my case?
[22:23:46] <XXCoder> odd I would think it would only allow motion away from limit when triggered not disallow all
[22:23:59] <XXCoder> but then not expert
[22:24:51] <anarchos2> i think it's a bug in gmoccapy maybe. clicking "ignore limits" then turning the power on doesn't work, but if you click ignore limits, then unclick it, and click it again, it works.
[22:52:03] <zeeshan|3> anarchos usually people have a momentary switch inline with their limit switches
[22:52:07] <zeeshan|3> to bypass the limit switches
[23:14:11] <anarchos2> i see.